[00:00:01]
RIGHTY.[1. CALL TO ORDER, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, ROLL CALL]
TO CALL THIS, UH, MEETING TO ORDER OF THE CITY OF SEDONA PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.IT'S TUESDAY, JANUARY 3RD, 2023, AND THE TIME IS 4:40 PM IF YOU ARISE WITH ME FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
FLAG PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
COMMISSIONER WHEEL, PRESENT IT.
[2. ANNOUNCEMENTS & SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY COMMISSIONERS & STAFF]
ITEM NUMBER TWO, ANNOUNCEMENTS AND SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF.UH, I'LL TAKE THE LEAD BY, UM, WELCOMING WILL HURST, OUR NEWEST COMMISSIONER TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.
AND IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND TAKING A MINUTE OR TWO TO TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOURSELF AND YOUR INTEREST IN SERVING IN THIS CAPACITY.
YOU KNOW, UH, WHEN YOU MOVE TO A NEW COMMUNITY, WHICH WE DID FOUR YEARS AGO, UH, IT WAS, UM, WE'RE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR SOME WAY THAT, UH, AT LEAST MY WIFE AND I, ARE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR A WAY THAT WE CAN BE ACTIVE AND PARTICIPATE IN THE COMMUNITY.
UH, AND AFTER BEING HERE FOR FOUR YEARS, I WAS, I WAS REALIZING I NEEDED TO DO SOMETHING.
SO, UH, THE, UH, I UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE WAS AN OPENING, OPENING AND, AND, UH, APPLIED.
AND FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON I WAS SELECTED.
UM, I DO ENJOY, UM, AS I SAY, BEING NOT ONLY INVOLVED IN THE COMMUNITY, BUT UM, TRYING TO IMPROVE THINGS, IF THAT'S, IF THAT'S POSSIBLE, DO, UH, I DON'T BRING ANY MAGIC BULLETS TO FIX ANYTHING IN THIS COMMUNITY, BUT I THINK, UH, UH, WHAT WE DO ON THIS BOARD CAN HELP AT LEAST NOT MAKE IT ANY WORSE AND PERHAPS MAKE IT BETTER.
UH, AND I LOOK FORWARD TO PLAYING A ROLE IN THAT AND, UH, UH, AND, UH, BEING, UH, AN ADVOCATE, I BELIEVE, FOR THOSE THAT ARE TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING IN THE COMMUNITY.
WILL, UH, WHAT WAS YOUR PROFESSIONAL BACKGROUND? I, UH, WAS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF SEVERAL LABOR UNIONS.
UH, I WAS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF A PUBLIC COUNTY PUBLIC AUTHORITY IN CALIFORNIA.
UH, AND, UM, I BUILT ABOUT FIVE HOMES, UH, A COMMERCIAL BUILDING.
AND, UM, SO JUST, I HAVE, I HAVE EXPERIENCE IN ALL THESE AREAS.
I'M NOT AN EXPERT IN ANY OF IT
UH, ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS WISH TO SAY ANYTHING DURING THIS AGENDA? ITEM STAFF? CARRIE, SORRY, I JUST TOOK A BITE OF I'M VICE CHAIRS.
UM, I JUST WANTED TO UPDATE YOU, UH, A COUPLE PROJECTS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE SEEN AND HAVE, YOU KNOW, MOVED ON.
THE TWO SUBDIVISIONS THAT YOU REVIEWED BACK IN, I BELIEVE OCTOBER CITY COUNCIL DID REVIEW THOSE.
THEY APPROVED THE CHAPEL VIEW TERRACE, I THINK IT WAS CALLED THE ONE DOWN ON THE CHAPEL ROAD ROUNDABOUT.
UM, AND THEN THEY DID NOT APPROVE THE REFUGE AT SEDONA SUBDIVISION.
UM, AND SO THE CHAPEL ONE WOULD BE MOVING FORWARD TO FINAL PLAT AND BUILDING PERMITS AND THAT SORT OF THING.
AND IT'S, RIGHT NOW NOTHING ELSE IS HAPPENING WITH THE REFUGE SUBDIVISION.
AND THEN THE OTHER UPDATE IS THAT THE ARABELLA PROJECT WAS APPEALED.
UM, AS YOU KNOW, THE, THE VOTE WAS A THREE THREE VOTE, WHICH IS A DENIAL OF THE PROJECT.
SO THE APPLICANT DID APPEAL THAT.
AND CITY COUNCIL WILL BE HEARING THE APPEAL ON JANUARY 25TH AT THREE O'CLOCK.
[3. APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES]
ITEM NUMBER THREE, APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES.ARE THERE ANY CORRECTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? IF NOT, THEY STAND APPROVED.
I SHOULD HAVE LISTED THE DATE.
NOVEMBER 15TH, 2022, REGULAR MEETING.
[4. Nomination and election of Chair and Vice Chair.]
TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR, NOMINATION AND ELECTION OF CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR.ARE THERE NOMINATIONS FOR CHAIR? I'D LIKE TO NOMINATE KATHY LEVIN.
ANY OTHER NOMINATIONS? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF ELECTING CHAIR LEVIN SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED? SARAH, DID YOU VOTE ON THAT? AYE.
[00:05:01]
CAN YOU NOT, CAN YOU NOT HEAR ME? YES.SO, UH, THEN WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE NOMINATION ELECTION OF VICE CHAIR OF THE COMMISSION.
ARE THERE NOMINATIONS FOR THIS? I NOMINATE CHARLOTTE HOSNI IF NO ONE'S GONNA RAISE THEIR HAND.
ANY OTHER NOMINATIONS FOR THIS ROLE? NO.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF ELECTING VICE CHAIR CHARLOTTE AS VICE CHAIR AGAIN, SAY AYE.
UH, WE'LL MOVE ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE, PUBLIC FORUM.
THIS IS THE TIME FOR THE PUBLIC TO COMMENT ON MATTERS NOT LISTED ON THE AGENDA.
THE COMMISSION MAY NOT DISCUSS ITEMS THAT ARE NOT SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED ON THE AGENDA PURSUANT TO A RS SECTION 38 DASH 4 31 0.01 H.
ACTION TAKEN AS A RESULT OF PUBLIC COMMENT WILL BE LIMITED TO DIRECTING STAFF TO STUDY THE MATTER, RESPONDING TO CRITICISM OR SCHEDULING THE MATTER FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION AND DECISION AT A LATER DATE.
AND I HAVE NO CARDS, NO PUBLIC WISHES TO SPEAK UNDER THIS AGENDA ITEM.
SO I'LL CLOSE THAT AND WE WILL MOVE
[6. Update/discussion regarding the Community Plan Update.]
ON TO ITEM AGENDA.ITEM NUMBER SIX, UPDATE DISCUSSION REGARDING THE COMMUNITY PLAN UPDATE.
SO, UM, THIS IS, WAS IT NOVEMBER? YEAH.
SO WE DID HAVE A COUPLE OF, UM, PUBLIC WORKSHOPS SINCE I SPOKE WITH YOU LAST.
UM, WE HAD TWO LISTENING AND LEARNING WORKSHOPS THAT WERE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.
UM, WE HAD TWO DIFFERENT TOPICS.
I THINK THERE MAY HAVE BEEN A FEW OF YOU IN ON THOSE.
UM, AND THEN WE HAD ANOTHER SESSION ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
AND FOR BOTH OF THOSE, WE HAD ABOUT 50 OR SO FOR CIRCULATION, ABOUT 40 PEOPLE ON THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
THE, THE NUMBERS KIND OF BOUNCED UP AND DOWN BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULD, YOU KNOW, TUNE IN AND THEN THEY WOULD TUNE OUT.
UM, THE OTHER INTERESTING THING ABOUT IT IS THAT WE HAD ABOUT DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT REGISTER.
UM, SO THAT WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTING, BUT STILL THAT WAS A DECENT TURNOUT.
UM, AND THEN, OH, AND I WANNA THANK, SINCE THEY'RE HERE IN THE ROOM, PUBLIC WORKS, ANDY DICKEY IN PARTICULAR, HE, HE PRESENTED FOR THE, UH, CIRCULATION SECTION AND THEN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
WE HAD MOLLY SPANGLER, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR, AND THEN WE HAD, UM, TWO REGIONAL REPRESENTATIVES, STEVE AYERS FROM CAMP VERDE AND TOM BENNINGS, UM, WITH VB RIO.
AND SO THOSE SEEM TO WORK REALLY WELL.
UM, OUR NEXT WORKSHOP IS ACTUALLY NOT A PUBLIC ONE.
IT'S OUR PART PARTNER WORKSHOP THAT'S GONNA BE NEXT WEEK.
AND IT IS GOING TO BE A COMBINATION OF CITY STAFF AND THEN A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT PARTNERS.
UM, EVERYTHING FROM THE FOREST SERVICE, THE WATER COMPANY, UM, SEVERAL NONPROFITS, UM, AND THEN QUITE A FEW CITY STAFF AS WELL.
AND SO THAT WILL BE A HALF DAY WORKSHOP.
WE SUSPECT THAT WE'LL PROBABLY DO A FEW MORE OF THOSE, AT LEAST ONE MORE IN THE FUTURE.
UM, WHAT'S THE FORMAT AND FOCUS FOR THAT? UH, THE PARTNER WORKSHOP IS GONNA BE NEXT WEEK.
UM, IT'S ABOUT, I THINK IT'S A FOUR HOUR MEETING, AND WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT, UM, BASICALLY WHAT THEIR INPUT IS ON PARTNERING WITH THE CITY.
AND THEN WE ARE GOING TO HAVE BREAKOUT GROUPS TALKING ABOUT LAND USE AND HOUSING, UH, SUSTAINABILITY ENVIRONMENT AND TOURISM MANAGEMENT.
UM, AND THEN ARE, IS THAT, IS THAT A CLOSED MEETING? UM, IT'S OPEN IN THAT PEOPLE CAN OBSERVE, BUT WE'LL HAVE, YOU KNOW, NOT THAT YOU COULD HAVE A CLOSED MEETING, BUT RIGHT, EXACTLY.
PEOPLE CAN SHOW UP AND, AND WATCH, BUT WE'LL HAVE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF, OF SEATS MM-HMM.
UM, SO YOU EXPECT A GOOD TURNOUT FOR THAT.
UH, WE STILL HAVE A FEW PEOPLE RSVPING.
[00:10:01]
RIGHT NOW WE'RE AT AROUND 25 OR SO.SO THE NEXT PUBLIC WORKSHOPS, UH, WE'VE GOT TWO IN-PERSON WORKSHOPS THAT ARE GONNA BE MORE LIKE COMMUNITY FORUMS, SIMILAR TO OUR SEPTEMBER EVENT.
UH, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ONE THAT WILL BE LAND USE, HOUSING AND GROWTH.
AND THEN ANOTHER ONE IS GOING TO BE ON TOURISM MANAGEMENT.
UM, AND THOSE WILL BE IN-PERSON OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, UM, SIMILAR TO THE PREVIOUS ONE IN SEPTEMBER, EXCEPT PROBABLY MUCH LESS OF A, A PRESENTATION AND MORE A WORKSHOP STYLE WITH STATIONS FOR PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE MM-HMM.
SO IT'LL, IT'LL BE MORE INTERACTIVE THAN THAT PREVIOUS ONE.
OUR WORK GROUP ACTUALLY WAS ON, UH, A HIATUS FOR A COUPLE MONTHS, AND SO THEY HAVE THEIR NEXT MEETING COMING UP JANUARY 18TH.
AND WE'LL BE TALKING TO THEM ABOUT THE IN-PERSON WORKSHOPS AS WELL.
UM, WE ALSO ARE GOING TO START WORKING DIRECTLY WITH CITY STAFF DEPARTMENTS AND COLLABORATE WITH THEM ON DIFFERENT SECTIONS OF THE PLAN AND LOOKING AT THE GOALS, THE POLICIES, AND THE ACTION ITEMS FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE.
UM, SO THAT WILL GET STARTED PRETTY SOON HERE.
THE ONLY OTHER THING I HAVE ON THE LIST WAS WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THE WEBSITE KIND OF CONTINUALLY TRYING TO IMPROVE IT AND ADD INFORMATION AND MAKE THINGS EASIER TO FIND ON THE WEBSITE.
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? ANY QUESTIONS FROM UP HERE? UM, DID YOU HAVE THE DATES SET YET OVER CHARLOTTE? SORRY? DO YOU HAVE THE DATES SET YET FOR THE COMMUNITY FORUMS? NO, WE DON'T.
OH, HOW ABOUT THE MONTHS? UM, DEF DEFINITELY IN FEBRUARY.
AND WE WERE DEBATING TWO OR THREE WORKSHOPS, SO IT'S POSSIBLE IT MIGHT SPILL OVER INTO MARCH.
HOW, HOW ARE YOU ON THE TIMELINE? DOES IT LOOK LIKE ANYTHING NEEDS TO BE ADJUSTED AT THIS POINT IN, UH, EXPECTATIONS? WE WERE JUST WORKING ON THAT EARLIER TODAY.
UM, IT, WHAT IT MEANS IS THAT WE, WE ARE BEHIND FROM OUR ORIGINAL, AND IF, IF WE CAN SUCCESSFULLY DO THINGS CONCURRENTLY, THEN I THINK WE'LL BE FINE.
I ENJOYED THE ONE I LISTENED IN ON, UH, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND I THOUGHT THE PARTICIPANTS WERE VERY ACTIVE.
ANYTHING ELSE FROM THE COMMISSION? OKAY.
CYNTHIA, DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING MORE? NOPE.
THANK YOU FOR COMING TONIGHT TO GIVE US AN UPDATE.
[7A. Public hearing/discussion/possible action regarding a request for approval of a Minor Community Plan Amendment (Minor CPA) from Single-family Low Density (0.5 to 2 DU/AC) to Public/Semi-Public, Zone Change (ZC) from RS-18 (Single-Family Residential) to CF (Community Facilities), and Conditional Use Permit (CUP) to operate a shuttle service and park and ride lotfrom an existing parking lot at 1294 & 1406 State Route 179 (Church of the Red Rocks Overflow Parking Lot). The subject property is ±1.94 acres, and is located southwest of the intersection of State Route 179 and Bowstring Dr. APN: 401-25-002N & P Case Number: PZ22-00010 (Minor CPA, ZC, CUP)]
NUMBER SEVEN, CONSIDERATION OF THE FOLLOWING ITEM THROUGH PUBLIC HEARING PROCEDURES.WE HAVE ONE SEVEN A PUBLIC HEARING DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING A REQUEST FOR APPROVAL OF A MINOR COMMUNITY PLAN AMENDMENT FROM SINGLE FAMILY LOW DENSITY, 0.5 TO TWO DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE.
TWO PUBLIC SEMI-PUBLIC ZONE CHANGE FROM RS 18, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL TO COMMUNITY FACILITIES AND CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO OPERATE A SHUTTLE SERVICE AND PARK AND RIDE LOT FROM AN EXISTING PARKING LOT AT 1 2 94 AND 1 4 0 6 STATE ROUTE 1 79 CHURCH OF THE RED ROCKS OVERFLOW PARKING LOT.
THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS PLUS OR MINUS 1.94 ACRES AND IS LOCATED SOUTHWEST OF THE INTERSECTION OF STATE ROUTE 1 79 AND STRINGING DRIVE, ARIZONA PARCEL NUMBER 4 0 1 DASH TWO FIVE DASH 0 0 2 N NP.
THIS IS CASE NUMBER PZ 22 DASH 0 1 0 MINOR CPA ZONE CHANGE AND CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
WHOSE MA CARE OR KI ARE YOU MAKING THE PRESENTATION? UM, YEAH, SO I'M GOING TO DO SOME OF THE BASICS OF THE PRESENTATION AND THEN I'M JOINED BY ANDREW BAIRD, WHO'S WITH KIMLEY HORN, AND HE'S ALSO THE CITY'S CONSULTANT FOR THE PROJECT.
SO HE'LL BE GOING OVER SOME OF THE MORE SPECIFICS ABOUT THE OPERATION AND OKAY.
BUT I'M GONNA START, AND THEN HE'S GONNA FOLLOW AND, AND ANDY'S HERE, THE ANDY'S HERE AND, AND ROBERT HERE, OUR TRANSIT MANAGER IS HERE AS WELL.
[00:15:01]
WE'VE GOT A NUMBER OF PEOPLE HERE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS, HOPEFULLY.UM, SO BEFORE I STARTED GETTING REALLY INTO THE PROJECT, WE HAVE GOTTEN SOME COMMENTS AND SOME QUESTIONS FROM, UM, KIND OF FROM THE COMMISSIONERS, BUT ALSO FROM STAFF MEMBERS AS WELL AS THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF MOVING PARTS TO THIS PROJECT.
UM, SO I DID WANT TO JUST SPEND A LITTLE BIT OF TIME BEFORE WE JUMP INTO THIS SPECIFIC TO KIND OF TALK ABOUT THE DIFFERENT COMPONENTS OF THIS PROJECT AND THE DIFFERENT PROCESSES THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT TONIGHT.
SO, UM, AS ON, ON THE SCREEN AND AS, UM, THE CHAIR READ, THIS CONTAINS A MI MINOR COMMUNITY PLAN, AMENDMENT, A ZONE CHANGE, AND A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
UM, SO WE'LL KIND OF GO THROUGH A LITTLE BIT OF THAT JUST, UM, TO MAKE SURE WE'RE ALL THINKING ON THE SAME PAGES.
UM, SO WHEN WE LOOK AT A PROJECT AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN A PROJECT IS PRESENTED TO US, WE KIND, WE LOOK AT THE CURRENT ZONING AND SAY, IS THIS ALLOWED? IS IT NOT? AND THEN FROM THERE, WE, YOU START FORMING IF YOU WANT TO DO THIS, HERE ARE THE PROCESSES YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH.
SO, UH, IN THIS CASE, AND WE WILL GET INTO THIS A LITTLE BIT LATER, A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IS ALLOWED IF THIS IS IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE CHURCH.
IT'S NOT ALLOWED IF IT'S A STANDALONE UNIT, IF IT'S BY ITSELF.
SO IN ORDER TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS AS A STANDALONE USE, NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THE CHURCH, THE MINOR COMMUNITY PLANNED AMENDMENT AND ZONE CHANGE WOULD BE NEEDED.
WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT, WE'RE LOOKING AT WHETHER THINGS ARE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE DIFFERENT CODES.
AND UM, AND SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT COMMUNITY PLAN COMPLIANCE, THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE JUST THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP, WHICH IS A MAJOR COMPONENT OF THE COMMUNITY PLAN.
AND IT'S TYPICALLY WHAT TRIGGERS THE PLAN AMENDMENTS.
BUT WE'RE ALSO LOOKING AT ALL THOSE OTHER SECTIONS OF THE CODE THAT, YOU KNOW, CYNTHIA'S WORKING ON.
IS THIS IS A PROJECT IN LINE WITH THE GOALS AND OBJECTIVES OF THE CITY, AND IF IT IS, IS IT SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD BE MOVING FORWARD WITH, UM, WITH ALL THESE DIFFERENT COMPONENTS? AND SO AGAIN, FOR THIS PROJECT TO MOVE FORWARD, ALL OF THESE THREE COMPONENTS NEED TO BE PART OF THE PROJECT.
UM, AND WHEN THERE IS A COMMUNITY PLAN AMENDMENT, THERE'S THESE BEAUTIFUL PAGES AND THE COMMUNITY PLAN IS PAGES ONE 13 AND ONE 14 AS PART OF THE IMPLEMENTATION SECTION.
AND THIS SECTION DEFINES WHAT IS A MAJOR VERSUS A MINOR COMMUNITY PLAN AMENDMENT.
UM, AND, AND WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP, IT SAYS CHANGES FROM THIS DESIGNATION TO THAT DESIGNATION CONSTITUTE A MAJOR AMENDMENT.
AND SO IT'S THINGS LIKE GOING FROM RESIDENTIAL TO COMMERCIAL, IT'S GOING FROM PUBLIC, SEMI-PUBLIC TO RESIDENTIAL, GOING FROM OPEN SPACE TO ANYTHING.
UM, AND SO IT'S TYPICALLY THINGS THAT ARE INCREASING THE INTENSITY OF USE.
THOSE ARE CONSIDERED MAJOR AMENDMENTS AND THEY HAVE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS BY THE CO, BY STATE LAW AND BY THE CITY'S COMMUNITY PLAN.
ANYTHING THAT'S NOT CLASSIFIED HERE AS A MAJOR AMENDMENT IS CONSIDERED A MINOR AMENDMENT.
AND SO, BECAUSE THE CHANGE THAT IS BEING REQUESTED WITH THIS APPLICATION IS RESIDENTIAL TO PUBLIC, SEMI-PUBLIC, THAT IS NOT LISTED AS A MAJOR AMENDMENT.
SO IT'S CLASSIFIED AS A MINOR AMENDMENT.
AND SO JUST TO SAY THAT, UM, THE MINOR IS A CATEGORIZATION, NOT NECESSARILY A, AN INDICATION THAT IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL, UM, IT'S MINOR AND MAJOR DENOTES THE PROCESS THAT AN APPLICATION GOES THROUGH, NOT NECESSARILY THE REVIEW CRITERIA.
THE REVIEW CRITERIA IS THE SAME.
WHAT WE DID IN THE STAFF REPORT FOR THIS AMENDMENT IS THE SAME THING THAT WE WOULD DO FOR A MAJOR AMENDMENT.
WE GO THROUGH THE SAME PROC, THAT SAME REVIEW PROCESS, BUT THE MAJOR AND MINOR AMENDMENTS, THEIR PROCESS TO GET APPROVED IS DIFFERENT.
SO A MAJOR AMENDMENT, YOU'RE LIMITED IN HOW OFTEN YOU CAN CONSIDER IT.
A MINOR AMENDMENT CAN BE CONSIDERED AT ANY TIME OF THE YEAR.
UM, NOTIFICATION, A MAJOR AMENDMENT REQUIRES CITYWIDE NOTIFICATION, WHICH IS A CITY IMPOSED REQUIREMENT NOT FROM THE STATE.
A MINOR AMENDMENT DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT LARGE NOTIFICATION.
UM, AND MAJOR AMENDMENTS, THEY BOTH REQ, BOTH MAJOR AND MINOR REQUIRE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.
BUT WHEN IT GETS TO COUNCIL, A MAJOR AMENDMENT REQUIRES A TWO-THIRDS VOTE, WHICH IS FIVE OF SEVEN TO BE APPROVED.
WHEREAS A MINOR AMENDMENT REQUIRES THE, THE SIMPLE MAJORITY, THE FOUR OF SEVEN.
SO THAT APPROVAL IS DIFFERENT.
AND SO THAT'S, UM, TYPICALLY, I THINK I ACTUALLY LOOKED BACK TODAY THE LAST TIME WE DID A MINOR AMENDMENT TO THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP WAS IN 2014.
UM, GENERALLY PEOP BECAUSE OF THE WAY OUR STRUCTURE WORKS, MAJOR AMENDMENTS ARE WHERE YOU'RE LOOKING TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF THINGS AND A MINOR AMENDMENT, WOULD YOU BE KIND OF DECREASING? MOST PEOPLE DON'T DO THAT.
MOST PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO DO MORE WITH THEIR PROPERTY,
[00:20:01]
NOT NECESSARILY GO THE OTHER WAY.UM, SO YEAH, SO 2014 WAS THE LAST TIME WE DID A MINOR AMENDMENT, UM, TO THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP.
WE'VE DONE A COUPLE, WE DID ONE MINOR TEXT AMENDMENT IN 2016 THAT WAS RELATED TO SOME CFA THINGS.
UM, BUT YOU'VE, NOT THAT WE DO A LOT OF MAJOR AMENDMENTS, BUT WE'VE DONE THOSE MORE RECENTLY.
UM, THE REVIEW CRITERIA THOUGH IS THE SAME.
AND THAT'S JUST THE DE JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU UNDERSTOOD THE DISTINCTION.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT MINOR, IT'S NOT ABOUT THE IMPACTS, IT'S ABOUT THE PROCESS THAT IT GOES THROUGH.
AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION WE'VE GOT IS ABOUT THE, CARRIE, CAN I JUMP IN THERE? YEAH.
YOU LISTED THOSE, UM, UM, YOU, YOU LIST, YOU GAVE EXAMPLES OF WHAT WOULD BE BE APPROPRIATE FOR A MAJOR, WHAT IS APPROPRIATE FOR A MINOR AMENDMENT.
AND SO I THINK THE LAST MINOR AMENDMENT WE DID, IT WAS A, A RESIDENTIAL DESIGNATION THAT WAS GOING FROM A HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL TO A, TO LIKE A MEDIUM DENSITY MULTI-FAMILY.
SO IT WAS LIKE A HIGH DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY TO A MEDIUM DENSITY MULTI-FAMILY.
THEY HAD THE SAME, UM, RANGES ON THE, IT WAS LIKE UP TO EIGHT UNITS PER ACRE.
FOR BOTH UNITS PER, YEAH, BECAUSE WE WEREN'T INCREASING THE DENSITY MM-HMM.
UM, OTHERS WOULD BE, IF YOU WERE, UM, TAKING A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY AND DOING A MULTI-FAMILY GOING TO A MULTI-FAMILY DESIGNATION OR A SINGLE FAMILY DESIGNATION, THAT WOULD REQUIRE A MINOR AMENDMENT AND MINOR AMENDMENTS, UM, WILL AFFECT THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP AS WELL.
THEY, I MEAN, YEAH, THE COLOR CHANGES ON THE FUTURE LANDING MAP, THERE'S TYPICALLY A ZONE CHANGE, BUT IT'S JUST NOT IN THAT MORE STRINGENT MAJOR AMENDMENT PROCESS.
SO, BUT THE REVIEW CRITERIA MM-HMM.
CAN I ASK A FOLLOW UP TO THAT? SO THE, THERE WOULD BE A CHANGE TO THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP IS JUST WOULD BE DONE IN CONJUNCTION AND DOESN'T, IT'S MORE ADMINISTRATIVE AND, YOU KNOW, NO, IT'S STILL, IT'S STILL THE SAME TYPE OF CHANGE.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD BE CHANGING THE COLOR ON THE MAP, BUT YOU WOULD BE GOING, IT'S, AGAIN, IF WE GO BACK TO THIS PAGE, UH, YOU PROBABLY CAN'T SEE IT.
LET'S SEE IF I CAN ZOOM IN ON IT.
UM, SO THERE'S THIS LIST OF CHANGES THAT YOU, YOU LOOK AT.
SO RESIDENTIAL TO COMMERCIAL MM-HMM.
SO THE INTERESTING THING LIKE WITH SOMETHING LIKE THE AMENDMENT IN FRONT OF YOU TODAY IS THAT IT'S RESIDENTIAL TO PUBLIC, SEMI-PUBLIC, PUBLIC, SEMI-PUBLIC TO RESIDENTIAL.
RIGHT HERE, THIS SECOND BULLET IS CONSIDERED A MAJOR AMENDMENT MM-HMM.
SO THIS APPLICATION TODAY IS CONSIDERED A MINOR AMENDMENT.
IF SOMEONE CAME BACK IN A YEAR OR TWO AND WANTED TO GO BACK TO THE WAY IF, IF THIS GETS APPROVED.
AND THEN IF SOMEONE CAME BACK IN A COUPLE YEARS AND SAID, WE ACTUALLY WANNA GO BACK TO RESIDENTIAL, THEY WOULD THEN HAVE TO GO THROUGH A MAJOR AMENDMENT TO MM-HMM.
AND SO IT'S ALL JUST BASED ON, IS THE CHANGE YOU'RE ASKING FOR? IS IT ONE OF THESE BULLET POINTS HERE? AND IF IT'S NOT, THEN IT'S MINOR.
BUT ANY, ANY OF THOSE CHANGES WOULD CHANGE THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP.
WE JUST ARE NOT ADDRESSING THAT SPECIFICALLY IN THE PACKET.
SO THAT'S WHAT THE MINOR COMMUNITY PLAN AMENDMENT WOULD DO.
IT'S A CHANGE TO THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP, BUT THE EVALUATION OF IT IS HOW WE WERE EVALUATING IT FOR COMPLIANCE WITH THE OTHER GOALS AND OBJECTIVES AND ALL OF THAT OF THE COMMUNITY PLAN.
SO WE'RE NOT PROPOSING TO CHANGE ANY OF, OF THE TEXT OF THE COMMUNITY PLAN.
WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO THROUGH THE STAFF REPORT WAS SHOW HOW STAFF BELIEVES THAT THIS PROPOSED CHANGES IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL OF THOSE OTHER SECTIONS OF THE PLAN.
AND I GUESS I'M JUST THINKING OF OTHER TIMES THAT WE'VE, UM, GONE THROUGH THE CHANGES AND THE WORD FUTURE LAND USE MAP.
IT'S, IT'S JUST SORT OF UNDERSTOOD.
I DIDN'T REALIZE IT WASN'T INCLUDED IN THERE CUZ THAT YEAH.
SO THE, THE COMMUNITY PLAN AMENDMENT IS TO CHANGE THE DESIGNATION OF THIS PROPERTY FROM RESIDENTIAL TO PUBLIC, SEMI-PUBLIC.
AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION WE'RE, WE'VE BEEN GETTING THE KIND OF WANTED TO CLEAR UP BEFORE WE GET INTO THE DETAILS OF THIS PROJECT IS THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND THE EXISTING ONE VERSUS THE NEW ONE.
CAUSE WE HAVE GOTTEN THOSE QUESTIONS ABOUT, WELL THERE'S AN EXISTING CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND THIS APPLICATION IS TO CONTINUE OPERATION, BUT NOW WE HAVE TO DO A, A COMMUNITY PLAN AMENDMENT AND A ZONE CHANGE MM-HMM.
[00:25:01]
UM, THE CURRENT C P IS, WAS REVIEWED AND IS APPROVED AS AN ACCESSORY USE TO THE CHURCH WITH THE RESIDENTIAL ZONING.THE, THE TRAILHEAD SHUTTLE CANNOT BE A STANDALONE USE.
IT HAS TO BE WITHIN, UM, THE WAY THAT THE CODE IS WRITTEN THAT A PARKING LOT THAT WAS BUILT FOR A DIFFERENT NON-RESIDENTIAL USE MAY BE USED FOR TRAILHEAD PARKING WHEN IT'S NOT BEING USED BY THE PRIMARY USE ON THE SITE.
SO THE PARKING LOT WAS BUILT FOR THE CHURCH MM-HMM.
THE CITY LEASES IT, BUT IT'S ATTACHED TO THE CHURCH.
THE CITY, UM, DOES HAVE AN OPTION TO PURCHASE THE PROPERTY AND THAT WOULD SPLIT THE, UM, THE LOT FROM THE CHURCH.
AND SO IT WOULD NO LONGER BE WITH THE CHURCH ANYMORE.
SO THE CITY CANNOT GET A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO OPERATE AS AN ACCESSORY TO THE CHURCH.
UM, SO FOR IT TO BE A STANDALONE USE FOR IT TO OPERATE ON ITS OWN WITHOUT BEING ASSOCIATED WITH THE CHURCH, THE COMMUNITY PLAN AMENDMENT AND ZONE CHANGE AND COM AND CONDITIONALLY USE PERMIT PROCESS IS REQUIRED.
IF THIS DOESN'T GO THROUGH THE LOT WOULD NEED TO STAY CONNECTED TO THE CHURCH IN ORDER FOR IT TO CONTINUE OPERATING AND THEN THE CITY COULD NOT BUY THE PROPERTY.
SO, UM, SO THE LEASE WITH THE, UH, THE CITY, UM, CONCURRENT WITH THE, THE, THE TIMEFRAME OF, SO THE, WELL YOUR STAFF, I MIGHT BE GETTING AHEAD OF MYSELF HERE, SO LET ME NOT GO IN THAT DIRECTION.
LET ME JUST ASK ABOUT THE LEASE ITSELF.
IT'S NOT A, UM, AN OPTION TO PURCHASE THERE IS IF YOU'RE ABLE TO DISCLOSE THAT OR NOT.
IT'S, IT'S A PUBLIC RECORD, UH, CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS.
IT'S, UM, WAS, UH, EIGHT ABOUT A, IT WAS SIX MONTH TERMS, BUT IT TOTALED 18 MONTHS, WHICH KIND OF COINCIDED WITH THE, THE C U P THAT WAS GRANTED BY P AND Z RIGHT.
UM, AND INCLUDED AN OPTION TO PURCHASE THE PROPERTY AS WELL.
SO IT'S, IT'S OPENED, ENDED, UH, THROUGH, THERE ISN'T, IT'S NOT, UH, DATE SPECIFIC.
BOTH, BOTH ARE WOULD TERMINATE JUNE 30TH THIS YEAR OF THIS YEAR.
THE LEASE AND THE OPTION TO PURCHASE.
UM, AND SO ONE THING THAT WE DID BRING UP IN THE STAFF REPORT, UM, WELL, NO.
SO THIS WOULD BE A, EVEN THOUGH THERE IS AN EXISTING C P, THIS IS NOT AN EXTENSION OF THE OLD C P, IT WOULD BE A NEW C P THEY WOULD BE ISSUED UNDER, YOU KNOW, IF EVERYTHING GETS APPROVED, IT WOULD BE ISSUED UNDER THE CF ZONING INSTEAD OF THE RS 18 ZONING.
AND AS POINTED OUT IN THE STAFF REPORT, THE WAY THE CODE'S WRITTEN, THE USE SPECIFIC STANDARDS ARE FOR THE TRAILHEAD PARKING IN A RESIDENTIAL, ON A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, NOT FOR A PARKING FACILITY AND THE CF, BUT CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS, UM, DO INCLUDE CONDITIONS THAT MITIGATE POTENTIAL NEGATIVE IMPACTS OF A PROPERTY.
SO THOSE KIND OF STANDARDS CAN BE USED AS REFERENCE WHEN YOU'RE CRAFTING CONDITIONS FOR THIS LAW.
SO I THINK THAT WAS KIND OF THE PROCEDURAL QUESTIONS AND NOW WE'LL GET INTO THE DETAILS OF THIS APP, ACTUAL APPLICATION.
UM, THIS PROPERTY IS LOCATED ON STATE ROUTE 1 79, THE APPLICANT ON THIS PROJECT OF THE CITY OF SEDONA.
THE PROPERTY IS JUST UNDER TWO ACRES, AND AS WE'VE DISCUSSED, IT WAS CONSTRUCTED AS AN OVERFLOW PARKING LOT FOR THE CHURCH OF THE RED ROCKS IN 2001.
AND A C U P WAS APPROVED LAST YEAR AND IT'S BEEN USED FOR ABOUT THE LAST 10 MONTHS OR SO, UM, FOR USE OF THE PROPERTY AS A TRAILHEAD SHUTTLE STOP.
UM, YEP, THERE'S THOSE THREE, UM, COMPONENTS.
THE COMMUNITY PLAN AMENDMENT WOULD CHANGE THE DESIGNATION FROM SINGLE FAMILY LOW DENSITY TO PUBLIC, SEMI-PUBLIC.
THE ZONE CHANGE WOULD CHANGE THE ZONING FROM SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL TO COMMUNITY FACILITY.
AND THEN THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WOULD ALLOW FOR THE PROPOSED USE OF THE PARKING LOT.
UM, THE VICINITY MAP HERE, WE HA IT'S SHOWN KIND OF IN THIS KIND OF HIGHLIGHTED, IT SHOWS UP BETTER ON MY SCREEN, BUT YOU HAVE THE ARROW ROAD, MORGAN ROAD ROUNDABOUT RIGHT HERE, AND THEN THE BOING ENTRANCE OR BOLSTERING DRY INTERSECTION UP HERE.
UM, EVERYTHING ELSE AROUND THIS PROPERTY IS ZONED SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THIS LOT HERE, WHICH IS AN M TWO LOT.
IT'S KIND OF LEFT OVER FROM COUNTY ZONING.
UM, IT'S THE, THE MIXED USE OFFICE.
I THINK THERE'S A DOCTOR'S OFFICE OR SOMETHING THERE.
UM, SO THIS IS AN AERIAL MAP AND SO YOU'LL SEE THE PARKING LOT IS HERE.
THE CHURCH OF THE RED ROCKS IS THIS PROPERTY HERE, IT'S ACCESSED OFF OF CREST DRIVE.
AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THEY HAVE A PARKING LOT HERE THAT HAS GENERALLY BEEN SUFFICIENT FOR THEIR USE.
[00:30:01]
THEY BUILT, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THEY BUILT THIS DOWN HERE AT A TIME, UM, AND MAYBE THEY HAD MORE, MORE ATTENDERS, UM, OR, BUT WHAT THEY HAVE FOUND IS THAT THIS PARKING LOT IS SUFFICIENT FOR THEIR NEEDS.AND SO THERE'S NOT A CONCERN THAT IF THIS IS NO LONGER ATTACHED TO THE CHURCH, THE CHURCH WOULDN'T HAVE ENOUGH PARKING.
THE THE PARKING THEY HAVE UP THERE IS SUFFICIENT.
SO THE PROPOSAL, AGAIN IS TO CONTINUE TO USE THIS PARKING LOT, UM, FOR TRAILHEAD SHUTTLES AND PARKING.
UM, THE SHUTTLE AT THIS LOCATION GOES TO CATHEDRAL ROCK AND LITTLE HORSE, AND ANDREW'S GONNA GET INTO ALL OF THE DETAILS OF THAT WHEN HE TALKS IN A LITTLE BIT.
SO I'M NOT GONNA SPEND TOO MUCH TIME ON THAT.
BUT THERE ARE ABOUT 64 PARKING SPACES THERE.
UM, THE SHUTTLE OPERATES THURSDAY THROUGH SUNDAY WITH ADDITIONAL DAYS ADDED ON, UM, HOLIDAYS SUCH IN SPRING BREAK, THOSE TYPES OF AREAS WHEN DEMAND WARRANTS IT.
AND THERE'S A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT SITE IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE HAVE DONE AND WILL BE DOING IF THIS GETS APPROVED TO MAKE IT A, A BETTER, UM, PROVIDE MORE SERVICES TO THE USERS OF THE LOT.
THIS IS THE SITE PLAN, UM, GENERALLY JUST USING THE EXISTING LOT.
UM, YOU'LL SEE HERE THAT, UM, WE ARE PROPOSING A PEDESTRIAN CONNECTION TO 1 79 RIGHT HERE.
YOU CAN KIND OF SEE IN THE AERIAL THAT THERE'S A PULLOUT FOR THE VERDE SHUTTLE.
UM, SO THIS WOULD ALLOW PEOPLE USING THE VERDE SHUTTLE TO GET OFF, WALK OVER HERE AND THEN GET ON THE TRAIL HEAD SHUTTLE, UM, TO GET TO THOSE TRAIL HEADS.
UM, SO IT WAS ASKED, UM, PRIOR TO THE MEETING CAN THE DIFFERENCES IN PERMITTED USES BETWEEN THE CURRENT RS 18 ZONING AND THE PROPOSED COMMUNITY FACILITY ZONING.
SO ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE HERE, YOU HAVE THE RS 18 ZONING.
IT IS A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT AND THE PRIMARY PERMITTED USE IS SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL HOUSES WITH, UM, SOME OTHER PERMITTED USES INCLUDING PARKS AND MINOR PUBLIC UTILITIES.
UM, SO DRAINAGE FACILITIES, WELLS, UM, THAT SORT OF THING WOULD BE IN THAT.
AND THEN CONDITIONALLY PERMITTED USES OR CLUBS AND LODGES, DAYCARES, FOOD BANKS, CHURCHES, SHELTERS, SCHOOLS AND MAJOR PUBLIC UTILITIES SUCH AS THE WATER TANK.
UM, THE COMMUNITY FACILITIES DISTRICT TAKES A LOT OF THOSE CONDITIONALLY PERMITTED USES IN THE RESIDENTIAL ZONE AND THEY BECOME PERMITTED IN THE CF ZONE AND THEN ADDS IN A COUPLE MORE CONDITIONALLY PERMITTED USES SUCH AS CEMETERY CONFERENCE FACILITY, A LIBRARY MUSEUM, AND THEN PARKING AND TRANSIT.
UM, SO WE ARE ADDING IN A COUPLE MORE USES HERE, UM, BUT I'M NOT GOING AS FAR AS LIKE A COMMERCIAL ZONING, UM, IN THIS LOCATION.
AND THEN AGAIN, UM, IF EVERYTHING GOES AS PLANNED, THE CITY WOULD BE OWNING AND OPERATING THIS AND HAS NO INTENTION OF DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE TRAIL HEAD SHUTTLE.
BUT THAT WOULD BE THOSE DIFFERENT ALLOWED USES FOR THE PROPERTY IF THE ZONE CHANGE IS APPROVED.
UM, SO WHEN WE WERE REVIEWING IT, WE REVIEWED FOR COMPLIANCE WITH THE COMMUNITY PLAN AND THAT INCLUDED THE COMMUNITY VISION, THE GOALS AND POLICIES FOR THIS APPLICATION.
WE FOCUS MAINLY ON THE CIRCULATION, LAND USE AND GROWTH SECTIONS OF THE COMMUNITY PLAN.
WE ALSO REVIEWED FOR COMPLIANCE WITH ADOPTED PLANS SUCH AS THE TRANSPORTATION MASTER PLAN, THE CLIMATE ACTION PLAN, MUN MUNICIPAL SUSTAINABILITY PLAN, AND THEN OF COURSE THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
UM, THERE WAS OBVIOUSLY NO BUILDINGS THAT ARE BEING CONSTRUCTED, BUT UM, WE DID REVIEW IT FOR ALL OF THE APPLICABLE FINDINGS THAT ARE REQUIRED FOR ALL DEVELOPMENT APPLICATIONS.
AND THOSE ARE DETAILED IN YOUR STAFF REPORT.
I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
I'M NOT GONNA BELABOR THAT POINT, BUT IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT ANY OF THAT EVALUATION, BE HAPPY TO ANSWER THAT.
UM, AS FAR AS PUBLIC INPUT, UM, THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT AND OUR CONSULTANT DID THEIR, DID THE CITIZEN PARTICIPATION PLAN, UM, AND THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT STAFF DID THE PUBLIC NOTICING.
SO THE, THAT MAILING TO THE NEIGHBORS, THE POSTING ON THE PROPERTY AND IN THE NEWSPAPER AND ALL OF THAT.
UM, THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE WHO ATTENDED THE CITIZEN OUTREACH MEETING, UM, AND THAT WAS DETAILED IN THE CITIZEN PARTICIPATION REPORT, BUT STAFF HAS NOT RECEIVED ANY COMMENT WRITTEN COMMENTS.
ACTUALLY, I DON'T THINK YOU MEAN ANY PHONE CALLS ABOUT, UM, THIS PROJECT IN RESPONSE TO THE MAILINGS.
AND SO AGAIN, THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME PEOPLE WHO RESPONDED TO THE MAILING THAT WAS DONE TO THE NEIGHBORS AS PART OF THE CITIZEN PARTICIPATION PLAN.
BUT AS FAR AS THE MAILING THAT WENT OUT TO THOSE NEIGHBORS WITHIN 300 FEET A FEW WEEKS AGO AND THE NEWSPAPER AND ALL THAT, WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED RESPONSES TO THAT.
[00:35:01]
SO AS OUTLINED IN THE STAFF REPORT, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THIS APPLICATION AS WE DO BELIEVE THEN IT MEETS ALL THE REQUIREMENTS FOR APPROVAL OF THE THREE DIFFERENT TYPES OF APPLICATIONS.UM, AND IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ME OR I CAN JUST TURN IT OVER TO ANDREW AT THIS TIME, THAT'S THE END OF MY PRESENTATION.
I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT, UM, THE REVIEW OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
AS I'M, AS I'M LOOKING AT, UH, PAGE 35 IN OUR, THE, UH, THE MAP, UH, OF THE, OF THE PROPERTY AND WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING TO DO WITH IT, UM, IT SHOWS A BACKUP TURNAROUND AT THE END OF THE, UM, OF THE PARKING LOT.
YOU SAID PAGE 35? IT'S ON, ON MY LIST OF PAGES, IT'S 35.
SO THE PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT, RIGHT.
SO YOU SHOW A BACKUP, UH, TURNAROUND AT THE END, OR AT LEAST I, IT LOOKS LIKE IT MUST BE AROUND 12 FEET.
AND I BELIEVE THAT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CALLS FOR A 12 FOOT BACKUP.
AND SO YOU'RE SHOWING THAT HERE, BUT CURRENTLY ON THE PROPERTY, THAT'S NOT THE CASE ON THE PROPERTY.
IT'S JUST A FLAT WALL THAT YOU RUN INTO AND THERE'S SOME XED OUT NINE FOOT LINES.
THERE'S NOT A 12 FOOT SECTION.
SO MAYBE WHEN YOU MAKE A PRESENTATION, YOU'RE GONNA EXPLAIN WHY IT'S NOT THAT WAY.
UH, I WASN'T PLANNING ON IT, BUT, UM, YEAH, WE WOULD, I THINK IN THE STIPULATIONS OF THE CONDITIONING USE PERMIT, AND THEN OBVIOUSLY AS WE MOVE FORWARD, WHATEVER THE DECISION IS TODAY, ALL THING, ALL ITEMS WITH PERMANENT IMPROVEMENTS WOULD HAVE TO MEET STANDARDS AND CODES.
SO WE WOULD UPDATE THAT TO HAVE A 12 FOOT TURNAROUND.
SO RIGHT NOW ON THE SITE PLAN, WE HAD JUST, UH, MARKED OUT A SPACE FOR A TURNAROUND AT THE END OF THE PARKING, AND THEN THE, THE BUS AND THE, THE VEHICULAR TURNAROUND IS ACTUALLY THE, THE, THE CIRCLE IN THE MIDDLE WHERE THE PLAN IS FOR PEOPLE TO LEAVE THAT WAY IF THE LOT IS FULL.
UM, BUT I DON'T HAVE THAT SPECIFIC, THAT SPECIFIC DETAIL IN THE PRESENTATION IN TERMS OF THAT TURNAROUND AT THE END OF THE, OF THE PARKING LOT.
WELL, A AS JUST AS I SEE IT AS IT'S DRAWN, IT LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE IT DOES IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE EXAMPLE OF HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE.
UH, THE, I GUESS I JUST WANNA UNDERSTAND IF THAT AND THE COMMITMENT IS THAT IT'S GOING TO BE THAT YES.
WAY IT'S GONNA MEET THAT, SO YEP.
YEAH, AS PART OF THIS THEY'LL BE RETRIP.
UM, YOU'LL SEE, AND IT'S FINE IF WE JUMP AHEAD NOW ON THE SITE PLAN, BUT THERE'S, THERE'S GONNA BE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MODIFICATIONS THAT WILL BE MORE PERMANENT IN NATURE THAN WHAT IS OUT THERE TODAY.
SO, UM, OBVIOUSLY THE SIDEWALK CONNECTION, SOME DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS, RIGHT.
UH, PERMANENT STRUCTURES THAT ARE PLANNED AND SOME, SOME RETRIP AND ACTUALLY SOME LOSING, SOME, SOME PARKING SPACE TO DO SO.
AND, UH, IF WE NEED TO RET STRIPE AT THE END TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAFELY TURN AROUND VEHICLES AT THE END OF THE PARKING SPACES, WE'LL DO SO.
IT, IT SEEMED TO, TO ME THAT IT WOULD MAKE SENSE IF THE CIRCLE JUST HAPPENED TO BE AT THE END, YOU WOULD ELIMINATE THE NEED FOR THAT AND YOU'D ACTUALLY END UP WITH MORE PARKING SPACES.
UM, SO IT, I I'M ASSUMING THERE'S A COST ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, THAT YEAH, IT'S A COST AND A SUSTAINABILITY STAND.
WE'VE, IN THE PRESENTATION ABOUT 11 MONTHS AGO, PART OF IT WAS THE WAY THIS PARKING LOT WAS LAID OUT WAS ALREADY ALMOST 90% OF THE WAY THERE TO INITIATE, UH, A PARKING RIDE SERVICE.
AND SO WE USED THIS TIMEFRAME SINCE INITIATION IN, IN MARCH TO NOW TO, TO SEE HOW, UM, IT'S FUNCTIONING AND OPERATING.
SO YEAH, WE, THERE'S CERTAINLY, WHEN YOU INHERIT AN EXISTING PARKING LOT, THERE'S, THERE'S ALWAYS IMPROVEMENTS THAT COULD BE MADE, BUT IN ALL HONESTY, LIKE THE WAY IT IS SET UP RIGHT NOW, IT, IT, IT FUNCTIONS, UM, HIGHLY EFFICIENTLY IN TERMS OF ITS USAGE.
I THINK WE'VE SEEN THAT OVER, UH, THE NINE MONTHS IT'S BEEN IN OPERATION AND EVEN IN SOME OF THE DISCUSSIONS WITH THE PUBLIC AT THE, THE OPEN HOUSE IN DECEMBER, THERE'S SOME FINE TUNING CERTAINLY THAT WILL NEED TO BE DONE, UM, AGAIN, IF AND WHEN THIS GETS APPROVED AND MOVES FORWARD AS WE, AS WE START TO PERMIT SOME OF THESE PERMANENT STRUCTURES AND PERMANENT IMPROVEMENTS.
BUT THERE IS NOT PLANS RIGHT NOW TO MODIFY AND MOVE THAT CIRCLE TO THE, TO THE BACK OF THE PARKING LOT, UM, AT THIS TIME.
AND TO YOUR POINT, YES, IT'S A COST, BUT ALSO A SUSTAINABILITY WHERE IF, IF IT'S OPERATING AND FUNCTIONING AS EFFICIENTLY AS WE NEED TO, THERE'S REALLY NO NEED TO, TO GO TO ALL THAT COST AND, AND FRANKLY
[00:40:01]
IMPACTS TO A, AN EXISTING PARKING LOT THAT IS LIKELY UNNECESSARY.WELL JUST FROM EXPERIENCE THE, UH, TO TRY TO PARK A F TWO 50 AT THE END, IT REQUIRES ABOUT 20 POINT TURN TO THOSE SPACES.
SO, UM, AND THERE'S MORE THAN ONE F TWO 50 OUT THERE, SO I, I, I'M JUST, IF, IF IT MEETS A DEVELOPMENT CODE, THEN OBVIOUSLY WE SHOULD BE OKAY.
AND YOU CAN USE, YEAH, SO THIS WON'T, UH, ALL COMMISSIONERS WERE PRESENT AT THE PRESENTATION 11 MONTHS AGO, SO THIS IS GOING TO BE VERY SIMILAR EXCEPT FOR, YEAH, EXCEPT FOR COMMISSIONER HURST.
SO THERE'LL BE A LITTLE BIT OF AN UPDATE IN JUST TERMS OF JUST BACKTRACKING ON HOW WE'VE GOTTEN TO THIS POINT.
AND THEN SOME UPDATES OVER THE 11 MONTHS SINCE THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WAS APPROVED.
AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE NINE MONTHS SINCE THE, THE PARK AND RIDE WAS, WAS IMPLEMENTED.
CUZ WE USED SOME OF THE STIPULATIONS AND THE CONDITIONING USE PERMIT TO REALLY MONITOR THE EFFECTIVENESS, THE, THE SUCCESS OF THE USAGE OF, OF THE FACILITY, BUT ALSO, UH, MONITORING POTENTIAL IMPACTS TO THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY, WHICH WAS WAS A NUMBER ONE TO, IF IT'S A SUCCESS, IT'S NOT A SUCCESSFUL PARK AND RIDE IF SUDDENLY THERE'S A TON OF OVERFLOW TRAFFIC IN THE COMMUNITY AND, AND UNSAFE CONDITIONS.
SO WE'VE USED THIS TIME TO MONITOR THAT.
SO MY PRESENTATION WILL BE NOWHERE NEAR AS LONG AS LAST TIME, SO FEEL FREE TO INTERRUPT AS, AS YOU SEE ITEMS ON THE SLIDES.
AND, UH, I'VE JUST GOTTA, AM I SO BAD WITH THIS MOUSE? UH, SO AS MOST EVERYONE HERE KNOWS, THIS IS JUST A SMALL PORTION OF THE OVERALL TRANSIT PLAN.
THIS IS A, A PARK AND RIDE FOR ONE SHUTTLE OF, OF MANY PLANNED, UH, WE'RE ALSO AS OVER THE OVERALL TRANSIT IMPLEMENTATION IMPLEMENTATION PLAN.
UH, IT'S A MULTI-PHASE, MULTI-YEAR PROJECT AND, AND WE'RE STILL REALLY IN THE INFANCY, AND THIS IS ONE OF TWO OR ONE OF, UH, ONE OF THE FIRST SHUTTLE STOPS THAT WAS IMPLEMENTED THAT WE WERE ABLE TO USE PROOF AND CONCEPT TO SEE RIDERSHIP AND USAGE.
BUT, BUT ULTIMATELY THERE'S A BIGGER GOAL WITH, WITH FIXED ROUTES, UM, A MAINTENANCE AND OPERATIONS FACILITY, UH, A MOBILITY HUB OR WHAT WE'RE CALLING RIO EXCHANGE RIGHT NOW.
WHO KNOWS WHAT THE, WHAT THE NAME WILL ULTIMATELY BE.
BUT THIS IS AGAIN, THIS, THIS PARK AND RIDE IS REALLY A SMALL COMPONENT OF THE OVERALL TRANSIT PLAN, WHICH APPEARS JUST A SMALL SNIPPET OF THAT PLAN THAT WAS COMPLETED AND, AND SOME OF THE FACTS AND FIGURES AND THE ULTIMATELY THE ROUTES THROUGHOUT, THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
UH, SO PROJECT HISTORY, UH, BACK IN JANUARY, 2018, THE TRANSPORTATION MASTER PLAN WAS COMPLETED AND ONE OF THE, UH, ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS WAS, UH, THE IMPLEMENTATION OF A TRANSIT SYSTEM.
SO IT REDUCED BOTH VOLUME, UH, ROAD VOLUMES AND THE DEMANDS TO PARK LUNG, HIGHWAYS AND TRAILHEADS.
SO TWO YEARS LATER IN 2020, UH, THE SEDONA AREA TRANSIT IMPLEMENTATION PLAN WAS COMPLETED THREE CORE FIXED ROUTE BUS LINES WITH TRAILHEAD SHUTTLES, ONE OF WHICH WE'RE DISCUSSING TODAY.
SPECIFIC TO THIS PROJECT, UH, STARTED IN AUGUST OF 21.
UH, WE STARTED LOOKING AT THE CONDITION USE PERMIT TO USE THE, THE PARK AND RIDE FACILITY AS IT IS TODAY.
UH, SO WE STARTED OUR OUTREACH EFFORTS WITH, UM, THE COMMUNITY AS WELL AS, UH, DISCUSSIONS WITH THE CHURCH.
SO IN AUGUST OF 21 TO DECEMBER OF 21, THERE WERE THREE SETS OF LETTERS THAT WENT OUT AND AN OPEN HOUSE THAT WAS HELD ULTIMATELY ROLLING INTO THE FEBRUARY 22 CONDITIONALLY USED PERMIT BEING APPROVED.
SO 11 MONTHS, UM, FROM TODAY, AND WE ALREADY DISCUSSED THAT EXPIRES IN IN JUNE OF 23.
UH, SO THE UPDATE ON WHERE WE ARE NOW IS OBVIOUSLY THE TRAILHEAD SHUTTLE HAS, HAS STARTED AN OPERATION.
ROBERT SENT ME THE NUMBERS JUST A LITTLE WHILE AGO, AND WE'RE OVER 60,000, UM, WRITERS LOGGED RIDERSHIP TO, TO DATE.
AND I THINK I'VE SEEN IT IN A PRESENTATION OF COUNCILS MAYBE A COUPLE MONTHS AGO THAT RIVALS IF NOT EXCEEDS SOME, SOME TRANSIT PROGRAMS THAT ARE ABOUT THROUGHOUT THE STATE EXCEEDS THE MAJORITY OF 'EM.
THAT'S WHY ROBERT'S PUT, THERE'S MAYBE LIKE ONE THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S HIGHER THAN, THAN WHAT WE HAVE.
AND THIS IS JUST ONE LEG OF AN ULTIMATE, AGAIN, A A AN OVERALL PROGRAM.
YEAH, I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT, THAT 60,000 IS JUST, UH, REPRESENTATIVE OF BOARDINGS AT THIS LOCATION RIGHT ALONE.
[00:45:05]
UH, SO NOW AS WE'RE WINTER OF, UH, 2022 LETTERS WERE SENT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS CARRIE INDICATED, AND WE HELD OUR OPEN HOUSE ON, ON DECEMBER 1ST, 22 AT THE CHURCH OF THE RED ROCKS.AND I'LL, I'LL DISCUSS, UM, JUST SOME OF THE DISCUSSION ITEMS FROM THAT MEETING THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY INDICATED IN THE CITIZEN PARTICIPATION REPORT, BUT I'LL SUMMARIZE IT HERE.
CITY MAP, WE'VE ALREADY LOOKED AT THAT, SO I'M GONNA SKIP THROUGH IT.
UH, THE SITE PLAN VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT WAS PRESENTED 11 MONTHS AGO, BUT NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT, UH, MORE, MORE PERMANENT.
ONCE AGAIN, IF AND WHEN THIS IS APPROVED, WE'LL BE LOOKING AT MORE PERMANENT STRUCTURES, NO LONGER A PORTABLE, UH, RESTROOMS, PERMANENT RESTROOMS THAT ARE, THAT ARE TIED TO A, A CITY SEWER AND WATER SYSTEM.
A LOOKING AT A PERMANENT SIDEWALK CONNECTION TO THE 1 79, UM, PICKUP, A PERMANENT SHADE STRUCTURE, UH, AND JUST OVERALL PERMANENT IMPROVEMENTS TO THE SITE.
NO LONGER WOULD WE BE OPERATING JUST UNDER, WE'LL STILL BE OPERATING UNDER CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, BUT UM, AGAIN, NOW THERE'S PROOF AND CONCEPT AND WE HAVE SIGNIFICANT RIDERSHIP.
UM, IT'S TIME FOR THE INVESTMENT IN PERMANENT FACILITIES AT THIS LOCATION.
UH, AND AGAIN, THAT'S WHAT IN WHAT'S INDICATED ON HERE, WE HAVE SOME, SOME CURRENT IMPROVEMENTS THAT WERE OUT THERE THAT WERE TEMPORARY IN NATURE AND NOW WILL BE PROCEEDING WITH, WITH MORE PERMANENT IMPROVEMENTS.
UH, AND LISTED AS KIND OF BULLETS FOUR AND FIVE.
IN ADDITION IS SOME PARKING RESTRICTIONS ON ARROW BOASTING.
UH, A LOT OF IT WAS BASED ON SOME OF THE CONCERNS FROM THE COMMUNITY WHEN THIS WAS IMPLEMENTED IN, IN MARCH.
AND, AND ONE CALL SPECIFICALLY TO PUBLIC WORKS, WHICH WAS ADDRESSED WITHIN 24 HOURS, BUT STILL SOME DISCUSSIONS OF SOME, SOME PERMANENT PARKING RESTRICTIONS RATHER THAN THE TEMPORARY SIGNAGE, WHICH IS, WHICH IS USED NOW TO KEEP THE, FROM THE ON STREETE PARKING FROM USING THAT AS EFFECTIVELY OVERFLOW FROM THE PARKING FACILITY.
UH, AND THEN EXPLORING STILL OPTIONS WITH TCA IN A POTENTIAL GUARD SHACK THAT'S STILL IN, IN, ITS IN EARLY DISCUSSIONS.
BUT ONE OF THE QUESTIONS FROM THE OPEN HOUSE WAS MORE INTERNAL SECRET CIRCULATION IN THE PARKING LOT ITSELF AND MAKING SURE THAT WHEN THE LOT IS FULL, UH, THE TCA IS, IS GUIDING THEM TO USE THE, THE TRAFFIC, THE CIRCLE AND THEN LEAVE ON BOASTING AT AT 1 79 RATHER THAN STOPPING THEM RIGHT AT THE GATE AND ROUTING THEM IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.
SO THERE, THERE WILL BE A LITTLE BIT OF AN EDUCATION COMPONENT, UH, TO MAKE SURE WE'RE, WE'RE OPTIMIZING THE USAGE OF THE FACILITY AND AGAIN, THOSE ALREADY EXISTING IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE THERE, UTILIZING THEM TO THE, THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY.
UH, THIS IS JUST SOME OF THE SIGNAGE THAT YOU'LL SEE THAT'S ALREADY OUT THERE.
SO THIS IS A REALLY A REPEAT OF LAST TIME.
AND THEN AGAIN, SOME OF THE AMENITIES THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING, THIS WAS INCLUDED IN THE, IN THE SITE PLAN, UM, AS SOME OF THE DETAILS FOR, UH, A PRE-FABRICATED RESTROOM.
AND THEN JUST, JUST AN EXAMPLE OF A, A BUS STOP SHELTER THAT WE'VE USED ON A PAST PROJECT.
SO JUST TO GET IDEAS IN A, IN IN CONCEPT RIGHT NOW.
OBVIOUSLY, UH, AS THIS, THIS PROJECT MOVED FORWARD, WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH, WITH PERMITTING AND, AND ULTIMATELY EVERYTHING THROUGH PUBLIC WORKS AND, AND BUILDING AND SAFETY.
BUT WE WANTED JUST TO NOTE SOME, SOME IDEAS THAT WOULD BE IMPLEMENTED OUT HERE AT THIS PARTICULAR LOCATION.
UH, PERMANENT BIKE RACK, UH, BENCHES, AND THEN, UH, ACTUAL SIGNAGE, LITTLE SHOW, JUST THE TRAIL MAPS FOR THAT SPECIFIC SHUTTLE.
SO HERE AT, UH, CATHEDRAL ROCK AND THEN LITTLE HORSE WOULD BE MAPPED HERE AT THE SHUTTLE STOP.
SO JUST AGAIN, MORE PERMANENT, UM, STRUCTURES AND SIGNAGE SHOULD THIS, UH, MOVE FORWARD.
UH, WE ALREADY KNOW THE ROUTE.
IT'S, UM, IT'S ABOUT A 20 MINUTE ROUTE DEPENDING ON TRAFFIC.
MAYBE YOU CAN GET IT IN 15 IF IT'S, IF IT'S SHORTER, BUT LITTLE HORSE, THE, THE PARKING SPACE, A LITTLE HORSE ARE REMAINING AS AS THEY'VE BEEN SINCE, SINCE THIS IMPLEMENTATION IN CATHEDRAL ROCK.
UH, THOSE SPACES HAVE BEEN BEEN CLOSED.
SO GOING BACK TO SOME OF THE, THE KEY STIPULATIONS WITHIN THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WAS, WAS REALLY GONNA REGULAR ENFORCEMENT WAS, WAS DISCUSSED IN TERMS OF IF THERE ARE SOME OVERFLOW OR THERE DISTINGUISHED TRAFFIC, WILL THIS WILL THE CITY, UH, MONITOR AND, AND ENFORCE.
AND THEN ALSO JUST, UH, VEHICULAR TRAFFIC.
ONE CONCERN WAS THAT THERE WOULD BE A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN TRAFFIC IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD STREETS IF WE HAVE A 64 SPACE PARK AND RIDE.
UM, SO AGAIN, THE EXACT NUMBER IS 60,000 LOGGED PASSENGERS AND REALLY RESULTING IN TWO NEIGHBORHOOD COMPLAINTS, ONE OF WHICH WAS NOT RELATED TO THE SHUTTLE.
[00:50:01]
FOR BICYCLISTS THAT WERE ACTUALLY JUST USING THAT TO PARK AND TAKE OFF ON THEIR BIKE.SO ONLY ONE RELATED TO PARKING SPILLOVER, WHICH WAS RECENTLY IN NOVEMBER.
UM, AND AGAIN, THERE'S EMAIL CORRESPONDENCE OF THE DAY WHEN THAT COM COMPLAINT WENT IN AND A REALLY A LESS THAN 24 HOUR RESPONSE TIME FROM PUBLIC WORKS WHERE THEY HAD THE, THE SIGNS UP AND THE RESTRICTIONS ALREADY UP AND IT SOUNDED LIKE A, A SATISFIED RESIDENT IN TERMS OF THAT.
SO AGAIN, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS DISCUSSED WAS WOULD THE CITY REGULARLY ENFORCE IF NEED BE? AND IN THAT ONE INSTANCE THEY, UH, CERTAINLY DID.
AND THEN JUST FROM A VEHICULAR DATA STANDPOINT, AGAIN, 60,000 PASSENGERS, SO A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF OF CARS COMING OUTTA THE PARKING LOT.
WE DID OBTAIN COUNTS ON BO STRINGING AND ON ARROW PRIOR TO IMPLEMENTATION.
SO THOSE TWO DATES ARE UP THERE HITTING A, A RELATIVE PEAK TIME.
NOVEMBER, THE NOVEMBER ONE WAS RIGHT AROUND THANKSGIVING.
AND SO WE HAD 146 VEHICLES ON THAT DAY.
WE JUST DID A ONE DAY COUNT JUST TO GET A BASELINE NUMBER.
AND THEN ARROW, UH, WE DID COUNTS, UH, AROUND SPRING BREAK, SO WE HAD HUNDRED 62 VEHICLES.
SO THE CITY OBTAINED CONTINUOUS COUNTS, UM, LATE AUGUST THROUGH MID TO LATE SEPTEMBER AND REALLY ONLY ON ONE INSTANCE, AND AGAIN THE START HOLIDAY.
SO LABOR DAY A WEDNESDAY, IN BOTH INSTANCES WE HAD MORE VEHICLES THAN ON OUR COUNT, BUT IT WAS WITHIN FOUR OR 5% THE REMAINING DAYS, THE AVERAGE DAILY TRAFFIC WAS, WAS LESS THAN WHAT WE HAD COUNTED BEFORE.
SO WE ARE NOT SEEING A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN TRAFFIC THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOODS.
AND UM, I, I THINK THAT WAS WHAT I GOT OUT OF THE, THE, THE PUBLIC MEETING AS WELL WAS THAT WHILE THERE'S STILL SOME CONCERNS, OBVIOUSLY FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND, AND WE'RE HERE TO STILL DISCUSS SOME OF THOSE, THE, THE EXTREME INCREASE IN VEHICULAR TRAFFIC HAS NOT HAPPENED AND WE HAVEN'T IN TERMS OF THE COUNTS AND IT DOES NOT SEEM LIKE THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS NECESSARILY SEEN THAT EITHER FROM SOME OF THE DISCUSSIONS EARLIER THIS YEAR.
GEEZ, WHAT AM I DOING? UH, SO JUST A QUICK SUMMARY OF THE, OF THE OPEN HOUSE.
WE HAD THREE ATTENDEES, THIS IS COMPARED TO 25 AT THE OPEN HOUSE THAT WAS HELD WITH THE, THE ORIGINAL CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
UH, AND WE HAD TWO SETS OF EMAILED COMMENTS AND SOME OF THEM I THINK ARE IN THE, THE PACKET, OTHERS WE'VE SEEN AND, AND ALREADY STARTED TO ADDRESS.
AND I JUST LISTED KIND OF THREE BULLETS IN TERMS OF HOW, WHERE THEY ALL FALL.
UH, SO THERE WAS SOME QUESTIONS JUST ON PERMANENT STRUCTURES AND AGAIN WHAT I PRESENTED ON THE SCREEN AND WHAT WAS IN THE SITE PLAN PACKET WAS REALLY JUST CONCEPT IN NATURE.
SO MORE DETAILS ON THE STRANGE STRUCTURE, MORE DETAILS ON THE RESTROOM, THE SIDEWALK CONNECTION, ALL OF WHICH, UH, AGAIN, IF AND WHEN THIS PROJECT MOVES FORWARD WOULD BE VETTED THROUGH PERMITTING AND APPROVAL THROUGH PUBLIC WORKS AND BILLING SAFETY.
SO, UM, ALL OF THOSE DETAILS WOULD BE, WOULD BE WORKED OUT, UM, WHEN IT MOVES FORWARD TO PERMITTING, UH, SIGNAGE AND MAPS.
THERE'S JUST SOME CONFUSION IN TERMS OF THE EXAMPLE PLACED IN THE PACKET WAS A PARK WAS TRAILS THAT WEREN'T PART OF THE ROUTE.
SO THERE WAS SOME CONCERN THAT YOU'VE BEEN PUTTING TRAIL MAPS FOR TRAILS THAT AREN'T PART OF THE PARK AND RIDE, BUT AT THIS PARK AND RIDE WE'LL HAVE MAPS FOR THAT SPECIFIC TRAIL.
SO IT WAS REALLY JUST A, A PLACEHOLDER IN THE PACKET THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT CONFUSING TO THE, UM, TO ONE OF THE ATTENDEES.
AND THEN AGAIN, JUST OVERALL TRAFFIC, CIRCULATION AND ENFORCEMENT.
SO CONTINUING TO NO PARKING WITH ENSURE THAT THE TCAS ARE GUIDING VEHICLES, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE LOT IS FULL TO UTILIZE THE TURNAROUND AND EXIT ON BOASTING BACK TO 1 79 AND NOT STOP THEM RIGHT AT THE GATE AND HAVE THEM DRIVE THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
EITHER SEARCHING FOR A PLACE FOR OVERFLOW, ILLEGAL OVERFLOW PARKING OR DRIVING THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO ACCESS THE ARROW ROUNDABOUT.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WAS DISCUSSED PRETTY SIGNIFICANTLY AT THE PUBLIC MEETING.
UM, AND WE'RE CONTINUE TO DISCUSS WITH THE CITY AS THIS THIS GETS IMPLEMENTED.
AND THIS IS JUST A SUMMARY OF WHY TRANSITS GOOD.
AND THIS IS A PICTURE OF PEDESTRIANS, BICYCLIST, TRANSITS, AUTO, AND A QUESTIONS PAGE.
THAT'S IT FOR MY PORTION OF THE PRESENTATION.
QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION.
SO THIS IS A QUESTION FOR ANDREW, UM, AND I HAD SOME FOR CARRIE TOO, BUT ON AN EARLIER SLIDE YOU HAD, UM, SOMETHING ABOUT UH, TCAS AND THE GUARD SHACK AND YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THEIR UNDER CONSIDERATION.
[00:55:01]
OF TCAS IS UNDER CONSIDERATION OR THE PARTICULAR ROLE THE GUARD SHACK? WELL THE GUARD SHACK SPECIFICALLY, IF THERE'S GONNA BE A PERMANENT GUARD BUILDING AT THE ENTRANCE, THERE'S ALREADY A TCA THERE RIGHT NOW AND THAT WILL CONTINUE.IT'S MORE THAT WILL CONTINUE HOW FAR THEN THAT'LL ALWAYS BE THE CASE.
BUT YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW TEMPORARILY TCA'S SITTING IN A CHAIR GUIDING PEOPLE, NO.
IS THERE PLANS TO BE A MORE PERMANENT HOUSE TO HOUSE THEM THAN, YEAH.
THAT'S THE MORE CONCERNED CONSIDERATION PERSON THAN THE RIGHT TCAS WILL CERTAINLY STAY.
SO THE BIGGEST THING, UH, JUST TO, UH, CLARIFY, EXCUSE ME, IS UH, BASICALLY JUST WHERE TO PUT IT.
SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE WANT OUR PERSON THAT'S STATIONED THERE TO BE, YOU KNOW, OUT OF THE ELEMENTS, UM, HAVE IT CONVENIENT, BUT AS FAR AS TRAFFIC FLOW GOES, HOW WE KEEP, YOU KNOW, VEHICLES CIRCULATING AND ALL THAT, WE'RE DEVELOPING A PLAN FOR THAT RIGHT NOW.
AND I THINK WHERE WE LOCATE THE GUARD, GUARD SHACK WILL HAVE A LOT TO DO WITH HOW TO MAKE THAT FLOW THE WAY WE WANT IT TO.
SO, UM, ONE IS, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE WAS ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT SOLAR, UH, ON THE, THE, UH, YOU KNOW, WERE YOU GONNA PUT THE SHADING ON THE SHADE STRUCTURE, RIGHT? UM, AND FOR THAT MATTER, IF THERE WAS ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT EV PARKING, UH, CHARGERS, UH, OR PERHAPS TO PUT IN, I WOULD IMAGINE THE DATE IS GONNA COME IF THIS, IF THIS WORKS OUT AND, AND YOU CONTINUE WITH IT, THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE ELECTRIC VEHICLES DOING THE SHUTTLE.
UH, DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO PUT THAT IN AT THE TIME YOU'RE DOING OTHER IMPROVEMENTS? UM, SO I'D BE JUST INTERESTED IN THAT.
LET ME JUST RUN THROUGH AND SEE IF THERE'S ANOTHER QUESTION OR TWO I HAD AT THE TURN AT, AT THE DE GATE WHERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE GUARD SHACK.
DOES IT, WOULD IT MAKE SENSE TO HAVE A BACKUP TURNAROUND THERE SO THAT PEOPLE HAVE THAT, THAT OPPORTUNITY? I THINK IF THOSE ARE MY INITIAL QUESTIONS.
IT'S CHANCE OF THE SECOND QUESTION.
THERE'S, I KEEP LOOKING ON MY SCREEN LIKE IT'S THE ONE THAT'S BEING SHARED ALL MESSED UP.
SO YEAH, THERE'S DISCUSSION OF PERHAPS INCORPORATING A T TYPE TURNAROUND HERE SO THAT THEY'RE NOT ACTUALLY DRIVING THROUGH.
CUZ ONE OF THE ISSUES TOO IS, AND THIS GOES TO ENFORCEMENT AND ASKING MORE OF YOUR TCA IS SOME OF THE CARS, WHAT WE WERE TOLD ARE JUST PARKING IN THE CIRCLE AND WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO LEAVE AND THEN POSSIBLY IMPACTING THE SHUTTLE AS THEY COME THROUGH.
CUZ THIS IS THE PRIMARY ROUTE FOR THE SHUTTLE COME THROUGH AND THEN PICK UP ON THE DEPARTURE SIDE.
BUT IF WE HAVE A SERIES OF CARS WAITING HERE, THEN EITHER THE SHUTTLE'S GOTTA, THEY'VE GOTTA RECOGNIZE THE SHUTTLE'S COME AND OUR TCA'S GOTTA GO DOWN THERE AND, AND MOVE THE CARS OUT.
SO PART OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT WITH THAT AS WELL IS THE CLOSER WE HAVE THE TURNAROUND TO THE ENTRANCE, THE, THE LESS STACKING WE HAVE YEAH MM-HMM.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF CONSIDERATIONS.
WE HAVEN'T FULLY WORKED THIS OUT YET, BUT WE'RE LOOKING FOR THE BEST LOCATION FOR THAT TURNAROUND.
SHOULD I GO TO THE OTHER QUESTIONS NOW? MM-HMM.
SO DEFINITELY WE'RE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR, YOU KNOW, OPTIONS FOR, YOU KNOW, GREEN CHOICES LIKE SOLAR.
UH, IT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING WE'LL CONSIDER, UM, WHEN WE DO THE FINAL PLAN FOR IMPROVEMENT.
AND EVS ARE, EV CHARGING IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING WE'RE LOOKING AT.
UH, AND I KNOW ROBERT'S, UH, LOOKING AT UH, ELECTRIC TRANSIT IN THE FUTURE, UM, CURRENT BUSES THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT PUR PURCHASING, COMING UP WITH COUNSEL HERE PRETTY SOON WILL NOT BE, UH, ELECTRIC.
THAT'S NOT CURRENTLY WORKING OUT AS FAR AS THE OPTIONS WE HAVE TODAY.
BUT WE DEFINITELY HAVE THAT ON OUR RADAR FOR THE FUTURE.
SO WE'LL, WE'LL LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE EXTENDING POWER FOR INSTANCE, DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO GO AHEAD AND, AND UM, EXTEND SOME KIND OF UTILITY IMPROVEMENT NOW WHILE WE'RE DOING THAT? UM, IT'S JUST SOMETHING WE'LL HAVE TO LOOK AT WHILE WE'RE UNDER DESIGN.
SO MAYBE JUST A QUESTION FOR CARRIE REAL QUICK.
IS THIS CONSIDERED BECAUSE OF THE CHANGES THAT YOU'RE DOING TO IT, A NEW PARKING LOT OR IS IT AN EXISTING PARKING LOT? UM, IT'S KIND OF BOTH.
UM, SO YOU KNOW, AS THERE, THERE'S NOTHING HERE FROM A LAND DEVELOPMENT
[01:00:01]
CODE STANDPOINT THAT WE WOULD SAY YOU NEED TO CHANGE THIS IN ORDER TO MAKE IT COMPLIANT WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.IT'S THE LANDSCAPING THAT'S THERE, THE RADIUSS, THE TURNAROUND AREAS, ALL OF THAT.
UM, THERE'S NOTHING WITH THE CHANGES OR THE RETRIP AND ALL OF THAT, IT'S ALL COMPLIANT.
THERE MIGHT BE SOME BUILDING CODE REQUIREMENTS AS FAR AS HOW MANY SPACES, UM, NEED TO BE EV READY.
UM, THAT MIGHT COME INTO PLAY AND STEVE CAN TALK MORE TO THAT.
UM, BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR.
SO THE ACTUAL LAYOUT OF THE PARKING LOT, I DON'T THINK IT REALLY MATTERS WHETHER IT'S CONSIDERED EXISTING OR NEW BECAUSE THERE'S NO LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CHANGES THAT WOULD BE NEEDED TO IT.
BUT THERE MIGHT BE SOME, UM, BUILDING CODE, WELL, IT WAS LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE THAT REQUIRES A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE TO BE, TO HAVE EV CHARGING.
THAT'S, THAT'S THE BUILDING CODE, NOT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
YEAH, THERE'S LOTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS AND DO A LOT OF READING LATELY.
UM, ALL RIGHT, SO THAT'S, AND THERE WAS ONE MORE QUESTION THAT I HAD.
UM, THE ON WHEN SOMEONE PARKS, UM, THE ONLY WAY FOR THEM TO GET DOWN TO WHERE THE SHUTTLE IS TO WALK RIGHT, RIGHT THROUGH ALL THE CARS.
WAS THERE ANY CONSIDERATION FOR A WALKWAY THAT WOULD PREVENT, UH, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF THE, I WAS READING THAT LITTLE PART ABOUT PROVIDE A SAFE AND CONVENIENT INTERACTION BETWEEN VEHICLES AND PEDESTRIANS
UM, YEAH, WE HAVE NOT CONTEMPLATED IT NOW.
I THINK ALSO IF THERE WERE ANY INDICATIONS OF PERHAPS ACCIDENTS BETWEEN VEHICLES AND PADS IN THE PARKING LOT, I DON'T THINK THERE'S BEEN INDICATION OF THAT AS OF TODAY.
I MEAN, WE ALWAYS ADD TRAVEL PATHS FOR, FOR SAFE ACCESS TO THE SHUTTLE SERVICE, BUT RIGHT NOW ON THE SITE PLAN, WE JUST HAVE IT RETRIED AND THE PATHWAY IS WALKING THROUGH THE PARKING LOT TO GET TO THE SHUTTLE.
NOW, BY THE SHUTTLE ITSELF, WE'VE PURPOSELY CREATED ENOUGH SPACE SO THAT WHERE THERE'S PICKUP DROP OFF AND, AND ULTIMATELY WHERE THERE'S A HIGHER CONGREGATION OF PEOPLE, 20, 24 PEOPLE IN AN AREA, THERE'S, THERE'S ENOUGH SPACE AND PATHWAY THERE, UH, FOR THEM TO WAIT SAFELY TO ACCESS THE BUS.
BUT IN THE PARKING LOT ITSELF, WE DO NOT HAVE A, A PATHWAY DENOTED WITH THIS CURRENT SITE PLAN.
AND THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE WOULD REQUIRE PEDESTRIAN PATHWAYS ONCE YOU GET MULTIPLE AISLES OF PARKING, JUST THE SINGLE AISLE DOESN'T REQUIRE BY THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE A, A SEPARATE PATHWAY.
OH, I WAS JUST, YEAH, I UNDERSTAND THAT.
UH, I THOUGHT FOR SAFETY PURPOSES THOUGH, I JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF YOU WERE CONSIDERING THAT.
AT THIS POINT, NO, AT THE LYNN.
ARE YOU DONE, UH, ASSUMING THAT THIS WERE APPROVED AND THEN THAT WOULD BE FOLLOWED BY A PURCHASE, WHAT IS THE TIMELINE YOU'RE LOOKING AT FOR MAKING THE IMPROVEMENTS? AND ABOUT HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE? SO WHEN WOULD YOU LOOK TO START IT AND HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE? SPEAK TO THAT.
SO WE WOULD LOOK TO INCORPORATE THIS, UM, THESE PROJECTS, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT BE ONE OR COUPLE PHASES INTO OUR NEXT BUDGET.
AND THAT PROCESS IS ACTUALLY STARTING THIS MONTH.
SO, AS WE PROGRAM THAT, VERY LIKELY WHAT WOULD BE THE CASE IS A DESIGN IN THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR, WHICH IS FY 24, AND POSSIBLY BUILD IT IN FY 24.
BUT BASED ON OUR WORKLOAD, IT'S MOST LIKELY FY 25.
THAT'S MY BEST PROJECTION RIGHT NOW.
AND ABOUT HOW LONG WOULD A PROJECT LIKE THIS TAKE AS FAR AS, UH, THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE HAVE ON THE SITE PLAN? I WOULD SAY NO MORE THAN SIX MONTHS.
WOULD THAT BE YOUR GUESS, ANDREW? FOR DESIGN OR FOR THE CONSTRUCTION? CONSTRUCTION, YEAH.
DESIGN, YEAH, PROBABLY NINE MONTHS, JUST CUZ THERE'S THE BUILDING COMPONENT AND THE ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES THERE.
THAT WOULD TAKE A LITTLE LONGER, BUT I THINK A LOT OF IT WOULD BE PREFABBED, UM, STRUCTURES, SO WE WOULDN'T BE LOOKING AT STICK-BUILT.
AT THE PUBLIC MEETING, WE TALKED ABOUT THE, UM, CONCERN ABOUT DRIVERS HANDING OUT PLASTIC BOTTLES AND THERE WAS A SUGGESTION MADE, UH, TO HAVE A WATER FILL STATION.
SO CAN THAT BE ADDED TO THE AMENITIES THAT WILL BE PROVIDED? YES.
[01:05:01]
STAFF WOULD LOWER US.WHAT'S THAT? OUR, OUR SUSTAINABILITY STAFF WOULD LOVE IT IF WE DO THAT.
UH, AND I, I, ROBERT MADE A, A GOOD CASE FOR HUMANELY HANDING OUT WATER TO THIRSTY HIKERS, BUT I THINK WE SHOULD ERR ON THE OTHER SIDE IF WE CAN WITH A, A FILL STATION AND, UM, THE GUARD SHACK RESTROOMS AND SHADE STRUCTURE WERE CONCEPTUAL AT THAT PUBLIC MEETING.
SO WHAT IS THE LOOP FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT THOSE MIGHT LOOK LIKE WHEN THEY, UH, GO THROUGH THE DESIGN PHASE? WE CERTAINLY COULD, ONCE WE HAVE A DESIGN PUT TOGETHER, UM, MAKE A, A PUBLIC PUSH FOR THAT INFORMATION TO REACH OUT TO OUR STAFF AND VIEW THE DESIGN, I THINK THAT WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
YEAH, BECAUSE I, IT WON'T COME BACK HERE FOR DEVELOPMENT REVIEW, RIGHT? NO.
SO MAYBE WE COULD JUST EXPAND THAT TO HAVE SURE.
NEIGHBORHOOD TAKE A LOOK AT IT.
THE, UM, LET'S SEE, WHAT ELSE? OH, D UH, INCLUDING THE SHADE STRUCTURE.
I DON'T KNOW IF I MENTIONED THAT THE, UM, THE TERM OF THE LEASE, YOU'RE SUGGESTING THAT, THAT, UM, LET ME REPHRASE THAT.
YOUR, UH, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THAT THERE'S NO, UH, TERM LIMIT ON THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT MM-HMM.
THEN I THINK I HAD PUT IN THE STAFF REPORT AS WELL THAT IF SOMETHING WERE TO HAPPEN WHERE THE CITY WERE NOT TO BE OPERATING THIS ANYMORE, WE COULD GO THROUGH A REVOCATION PROCEDURE TO MM-HMM.
I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYONE ELSE WOULD WANNA OPERATE A TRAIL HEAD SHUTTLE, BUT IF THAT WAS A CONCERN, THERE'S A PROCESS WE CAN GO THROUGH IF THE CITY'S NOT GONNA BE USING IT ANYMORE.
I, I, I NEED TO BETTER UNDERSTAND, UM, ONE PHRASE THAT WAS USED IN THE STAFF REPORT ABOUT EXPANDING, AND THIS IS PROBABLY A QUESTION FOR ROBERT, ABOUT POSSIBLY EXPANDING DAILY OPERATIONS DURING SPRING BREAK AND SELECT OTHER HOLIDAYS BASED ON THIS PAST YEAR OR NINE MONTHS, UM, ACTIVITY, DO YOU ANTICIPATE DOING DAILY SHUTTLE, AND IF SO, WOULD THE TWO OTHER, OR WOULD CATHEDRAL ROCK CONTINUE TO CLOSE WHILE THE SHUTTLE WAS OPERABLE? YES, AND YES.
UM, FOR SPRING BREAK THIS YEAR, WE HAD A LATE START LAST YEAR.
THIS YEAR WE INTEND TO HAVE DAILY SERVICE STARTING MARCH 1ST THROUGH APRIL 17TH.
UM, AND WHILE THE SHUTTLES ARE OPERATING, UH, THE CATHEDRAL ROCK, UH, US FOREST LOT AND CITY LOTS WOULD BE CLOSED.
UM, WE ALSO, I WAS, WE JUST FINISHED, UH, FINALIZING THE FY 24TH, OR I'M SORRY, CALENDAR YEAR 24, SERVICE SCHEDULE, LOOKING AT TRAFFIC DATA, WORKING WITH ANDY.
WE WOULD BE RUNNING LABOR DAY MEMORIAL DAY, UH, JULY 4TH, AND I THINK THERE'S A ADDITIONAL DAY THERE, LIKE THE THIRD WE WOULD BE RUNNING, UM, THE WEEK LEADING UP TO THANKSGIVING.
AND THEN, UM, THE WEEK LEADING UP TO CHRISTMAS, THE WEEK BETWEEN CHRISTMAS AND NEW YEAR'S, AND THEN THROUGH JANUARY 2ND.
SO WE'LL BE ADDING QUITE A FEW DAYS NEXT YEAR, UH, TO OPERATE, UM, SUPPLEMENTAL HOLIDAY SERVICE.
SO, WELL, THERE'S CLEARLY THE DEMAND.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, WE GET A LOT OF CALLS TOO.
WHY AREN'T YOU RUNNING? WHERE'S THE SHUTTLE? YOU KNOW, SO, YEAH.
UH, WE NEEDED THIS FIRST YEAR TO REALLY SEE HOW WE'RE DOING AND WE'LL, WE'LL GET THAT DIALED IN YEAH.
CAN I ASK YOU ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM, OH, SARAH, COULD IT POTENTIALLY BE SEVEN DAYS A WEEK IN PERPETUITY, LIKE 365 DAYS A YEAR? THAT, ANDY, I'LL JUMP IN IF, UNLESS YOU WANT TO JUMP IN OR SOMEBODY THAT'S REALLY DRIVEN BY DEMAND AND BUDGET AND DATA.
[01:10:01]
YOU KNOW, THERE IS, THERE, THERE ARE SOME RESIDENTS, UH, PARTICULARLY IN THE IMPACTED NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT SEVEN DAYS A WEEK.UM, WE'RE NOT, UH, SURE ONE THAT THERE WOULD BE DEMANDS SEVEN DAYS A WEEK ALL YEAR ROUND, AND TWO, THAT IS A BUDGETARY ISSUE.
UH, FOR EVERY HOUR THAT WE'RE OUT THERE, UH, THERE'S A COST, UM, ASSOCIATED WITH THAT.
SO, OH, AND ROBERT, I TOOK UP YOUR CHALLENGE AND I DID WRITE IT AND
DID YOU ENJOY YOURSELF? I DID.
I WAS THE ONLY PASSENGER, BUT I CHOSE SUNDAY TO DO IT.
UM, AND THERE WAS A VERY LOVELY BUS DRIVER WHO APPARENTLY SERVES IN OTHER CAPACITIES AS A BUS DRIVER FOR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND SUCH, BUT THANK YOU.
OH, I, I MEAN, I HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS, BUT I WOULD JUST WANTED TO PIGGYBACK ON THAT ONE QUESTION ABOUT USE.
UM, SO MINE ARE BACK TO CARRIE.
UH, I THINK, AND I DON'T WANNA GET TOO HUNG UP ON HOW YOU'RE CH HOW YOU'VE CHOSEN WHAT YOU'VE CHOSEN MM-HMM.
HOW DID YOU DECIDE THAT THIS WOULD BE FROM RESIDENTIAL TO PUBLIC? SEMI-PUBLIC? YEAH.
SO THE UPTOWN PARKING GARAGE IS OBVIOUSLY AN UPTOWN, SO IT'S MORE OF A MORE COMMERCIAL AREA.
BUT ANOTHER CONCERN WITH THAT ONE WAS THAT, UM, WHEN WE DID THE NEIGHBORHOOD OUTREACH, THE NEIGHBORS WERE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT GETTING THE PARKING GARAGE FURTHER AWAY FROM THEIR PROPERTIES, THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES BEHIND THEM.
AND THE COMMUNITY FACILITIES DISTRICT DOES HAVE, UM, A 20 FOOT FRONT SETBACK.
AND THE M THREE DISTRICT THAT THAT ONE WENT TO HAS A ZERO FOOT FRONT SETBACK.
SO WE WERE ABLE, BY GOING TO M THREE, WE WERE ABLE TO GET IT CLOSER TO THE STREET.
UM, AND ALSO WITH KINDA THE TREND IN PARKING GARAGES IS THAT THERE'S A LOT OF THOUGHT THAT THEY MIGHT NOT BE NEEDED GOING FAR INTO THE FUTURE.
AND SO, UM, AS THERE'S A, THERE'S INTEREST IN POTENTIALLY, UM, REPURPOSING PARKING GARAGES FOR OTHER USES, YOU KNOW, MAYBE 15, 20 YEARS FROM NOW.
AND SO WITH THAT, WITH THAT ONE SPECIFICALLY BEING IN UPTOWN BEING AN ACTUAL STRUCTURE THAT WE WERE BUILDING, WANTING TO GET IT AS CLOSE TO THE STREET AS POSSIBLE AND HAVING THE POTENTIAL FOR REUSE IN THE FUTURE, WE FELT THAT THE COMMERCIAL AND THE MIXED USE ZONING WAS BETTER SUITED FOR THAT PROJECT.
WHEREAS THIS PROJECT, UM, BEING WITHIN THE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, NOT REALLY INTENDING TO BUILD ANY STRUCTURES, NOT HAVING THOSE SAME CONSTRAINTS, WE WENT WITH THE COMMUNITY FACILITIES, UM, DESIGNATION.
SO NOT TO GET TOO FAR OFF TRACK, BUT OTHER LOCATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN PURCHASED BY THE CITY FOR TRANSIT RELATED OR PARKING RELATED USE WILL BE DECIDED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
WITH, YEAH, FEEDBACK FROM THE MANY AFFECTED NEIGHBORS OR PROPERTY OWNERS, LIKE CONSTRAINTS AND THE PURPOSE OF EACH LOT.
SO THE DOWNSIDE, I'M JUST THINKING, YOU KNOW, ARE THERE DOWNSIDES TO THE, UM,
SO DOES THAT DESIGNATION AS OPPOSED TO COMMERCIAL, WHICH COMMERCIAL MEANS MONEY TO ME, YOU KNOW, UM, PRECLUDE ANY COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY, FOR EXAMPLE, WOULD YOU NEVER BE ABLE TO CHARGE FOR PARKING IF YOU WOULD EVER WANT TO GO THAT WAY? WOULD YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE SHUTTLES BE FREE? I MEAN, DOES IT NO.
DOES IT CONNOTE THAT SORT OF THING? I MEAN, IT, THE IDEA IS THAT IT'S A PROVIDING A PUBLIC SERVICE AND, YOU KNOW, WE CHARGE FOR PARKING IN UPTOWN.
UM, AND THERE'S DIFFERENT MODELS TO, YOU KNOW, TO DO THAT.
BUT YEAH, IT'S NOT, THE PRIMARY INTENTION OF THIS IS TO PROVIDE A PUBLIC SERVICE.
WHETHER WE CHARGE FOR THAT OR NOT, THAT DOESN'T CHANGE.
THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE PRIMARY PURPOSE.
AND THAT LABEL DOES NOT PRECLUDE YOU? NO.
UM, AND ALSO I'M STILL A LITTLE CONFUSED ABOUT THE C U P NEEDING TO BE ATTACHED TO THE CHURCH AT THIS POINT,
[01:15:02]
RIGHT.BECAUSE IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED RESIDENTIAL.
I'M, I'M SORRY, I DON'T MEAN AT THIS POINT.
BUT, UM, SHOULD THIS BE APPROVED, THE C U P, THE NEW C U P WILL BE, DOES NOT HAVE TO BE ATTACHED TO THE CHURCH.
AND SO THE, THE CITY WOULD THEN BE ABLE TO BUY THE PARKING LOT AND NOT HAVE TO BUY THE CHURCH AND RUN A CHURCH TOO, WHICH WE'RE NOT GONNA DO.
BUT DURING THE TIME PERIOD, IT, IT'S STILL BEING LEASED.
IS THAT CORRECT? WELL, THIS, THIS WOULD ALLOW THE CITY TO PURCHASE IT.
IT DOES NOT REQUIRE THE CITY TO PURCHASE IT.
SO THE CHURCH COULD OWN A LOT THAT ZONED COMMUNITY FACILITIES WITH THE C U P FOR THE PARKING AND LEASE THAT TO THE CHURCH OR LEASE THAT TO THE CITY.
AND IS THAT THE CASE? AND THAT WOULD UNTIL THE BE THE CASE, UNTIL THE CITY PURCHASES IT.
WELL, IN WHICH CASE THEN THE CITY APPLIED ON BEHALF OF THE CHURCH MM-HMM.
AT THAT POINT WHEN YEAH, IT CHURCH NO LONGER OWNS THE LAW AND THE CITY DOES, THEN THE CITY NEEDS TO BE ON THAT C U P.
THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IS RUN WITH THE LAND.
AND SO THEY WOULD AUTOMATICALLY TRANSFER TO NEW PROPERTY OWNERS.
AND THEN JUST ONE MORE LITTLE QUESTION.
SO IF, IF COMMUNITY FACILITY IS SUPPOSED TO BE USES ON PRIVATE PROPERTY TO SERVE PUBLIC BENEFITS AND IT BECOMES PUBLIC PROPERTY YEAH.
THE CITY OWNS OTHER PROPERTIES THAT I THINK THE, I'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THE ZONING MAP, BUT THERE'S OTHER PROPERTIES CITY OWNS THAT ARE ZONED COMMUNITY FACILITIES.
I THINK THE OTHER, THE BREWER ROAD BUILDING AND VICE CHAIR HOST ANYWHERE.
ARE YOU GETTING THAT, THAT IT HAS TO BE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY IN THE PACKET IS THE DEFINITION OF A COMMUNITY? OH.
CAUSE I MEAN, IF YOU READ THE PURPOSE OF IT IN, IN LBC IT TALKS ABOUT JUST BEING, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC, PUBLIC PURPOSE, UH, FOR THE, FOR THE ITEMS. SO SCHOOLS AND LIBRARIES AND PARKS.
AND, BUT IT DOES ANY OTHER THINGS.
IT SAYS PRIVATE PROPERTY, PUBLIC USE.
THAT'S WHERE I'M MAYBE PUT THAT ON THE LIST FOR READING.
YEAH, I THINK WE CORRECT THAT CUZ IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE COMMUNITY FACT.
THE MAJORITY OF COMMUNITY FACILITIES OWNED ITEMS ARE NOT PRIVATE PROPERTY.
SO I JUST DON'T WANT US TO GO DOWN A ROUTE AND THEN FIND OUT UHOH, WE CAN NEVER CHARGE FOR PARKING.
UH, OH, WE ARE NOW, WE'RE NOW ON PRIVATE PROPERTY.
YOU KNOW THAT THIS IS VERY TECHNICAL.
I JUST, I REALLY LIKE, I'M SO GLAD THAT IT'S WORKING OUT WELL.
UM, I JUST WANT TO BE ON, YOU KNOW, FIRM FOOTING.
IT'S, OH, SARAH, SARAH HAS SOME QUESTIONS.
UM, LOTS OF THEM GOT ANSWERED.
I HAVE TWO TECHNICAL QUESTIONS, ANDREW.
UM, IF WE LOOK AT THE SITE PLAN, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT VISIBILITY AND SAFETY ISSUES WITH THE PARKING SPACE ADJACENT TO THE PERMANENT RESTROOM.
IF A VEHICLE PULLS HEAD INTO THAT AND THEIR VISIBILITY IS OBSTRUCTED FROM PULLING BACK OUT WITH PEOPLE WALKING AROUND THERE MM-HMM.
UM, SO I WOULD JUST POINT OUT, ANDREW, THAT, UM, WHEN YOU HAVE A PARKING STALL LIKE THAT, THE IN THE INTENT IS THAT THAT STALL BE FILLED WITH A VEHICLE.
SO YOU WOULD HAVE A VERY SIMILAR SITE DISTANCE ISSUE AS A VEHICLE BEING IN THAT STALL.
I, YEAH, I THINK, AGAIN, COMMISSIONER, THIS WAS, UM, MORE SPACE PLANNING, RECOGNIZING THAT NO MATTER WHAT, IF WE'RE PUTTING A PERMANENT RESTROOM IN BASED ON PRE-FABRICATED SIZES, WE'RE GONNA LOSE TWO PARKING SPACES.
SO WE WANTED JUST TO NOTE THAT THE LOCATION HAS NOT YET BEEN DETERMINED OTHER THAN WE WOULD LIKE TO KEEP IT NEAR, UM, THE AD ACCESS ON THIS SIDE AND
[01:20:01]
KIND OF AWAY FROM THE, THE OPERATIONS OF THE, THE SHUTTLE ITSELF.AND AT THE SAME TIME, IF IT COULD BE PUSHED UP THE PAGE YEAH.
YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT ON SITE, BUT YEAH.
UM, IT COULD, YEAH, YOU COULD, IT'S SET BACK TO ALLOW MORE VISIBILITY.
YEAH, THAT WAS ONE, THAT WAS ONE CONCERN I HAD.
AND THEN I'M ASSUMING THAT THAT PATHWAY, YOU KNOW, TO 1 79 IS GOING TO BE 80 ACCESSIBLE ON BOTH ENDS? YES.
AND THEN ALSO WE HAD TALKED, I HEARD YOU SAY SOMETHING ABOUT DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS.
WHAT'S THE LONG TERM PLAN FOR CLEANING ALL OF THE RUNOFF FROM THE PARKING LOT, OIL GREASE, ALL OF THAT STUFF BEFORE IT DISCHARGES INTO OUR NATURAL ENVIRONMENT? YEAH, WE TALKED ABOUT THE LAST MEETING, UM, INCLUDING SOME OF THE, THE FILTER FABRIC AND SOME OF THE INLET UH, PROTECTION YOU CAN PLACE THERE.
SO THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING TO CONSIDER.
I KNOW THE CITY'S IMPLEMENTING THOSE IN SOME OTHER AREAS THAT ARE FILTERS THAT CLEAN THAT BEFORE IT, IT OUTFALLS INTO CHANNELS.
SO THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING WE WOULD, WE WOULD LOOK TO IMPLEMENT.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S STILL ON THE LIST,
UM, AND NOW LET'S SEE, WATER STATION.
KATHY, THAT'S SOMETHING I REALLY WANTED TO SAY AS WELL, AND THEN I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT THE COMPLAINTS WERE, BUT YOU ANSWERED THAT.
AND JUST FYI, CARRIE, I'M GETTING A NOTIFICATION ON MY SCREEN THAT SAYS FIVE MINUTES LEFT IN OUR MEETING.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GONNA POP ME OFF.
I THINK THAT AS LONG AS YOU DON'T HANG UP, YOU'RE FINE.
CHARLOTTE, I I HAD ONE MORE QUESTION THEN.
IT WAS ON A TOTALLY DIFFERENT SUBJECT, SO I SKIPPED OVER IT.
BUT TALKING ABOUT RESTROOMS, UH, YOU SAID THEY'RE STILL IN THE HOW TO DESIGN IT, WHERE TO PLACE IT IS, IT'S STILL UP IN THE AIR, BUT IS THERE SORT OF A COMMITMENT SINCE IT'S NOT GONNA GO BACK TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IT WOULD BE CONNECTED TO THE CITY SEWER, IT'S NOT GONNA BE A COMPOSTING TOILET TYPE THING? DEFINITELY, DEFINITELY CONNECTED TO, DEFINITELY CONNECTED.
WE, WE, UH, WHERE, WHERE WE CAN, WE WANT TO DO THAT.
WE DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH THE ODOR ISSUE.
OR NOR DO THEY, I'M SURE THAT'S, THAT'S, YEAH.
AND THE MAINTENANCE IS, IS MORE INTENSIVE AS WELL ON THOSE KIND OF FACILITIES.
IF THERE ARE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS UP HERE, I'D LIKE TO OPEN UP THE, UM, PUBLIC FORUM, PUBLIC HEARING, AND I DON'T HAVE ANY CARDS AS ONE PERSON IN THE AUDIENCE.
DID YOU WANT TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION? NO.
ALL RIGHT, THEN I'M GONNA CLOSE THE, UM, PUBLIC HEARING AND BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR COMMENTS.
I'D LIKE TO START OUT, I THINK, SARAH, DID I HEAR YOU? I HAVE ONE MORE QUICK, I HAVE ONE MORE QUICK QUESTION THAT I YEAH, GO AHEAD.
UM, ONE OF THE CONCERNS THAT WE RECEIVED FROM THE PUBLIC WAS THAT PEOPLE WOULD COME AND PARK AND THEN, THEN WALK TO OTHER TRAILHEAD, RIGHT? LIKE MARKS DRAW OR BROKEN ARROW.
I'M WONDERING IF THERE WAS ANY AWARENESS AROUND THAT DURING THIS TRIAL PERIOD.
DID THAT, WAS THAT HAPPENING? DO WE KNOW? I I THINK THERE WAS, UH, SOME OF THAT, AND ROBERT MIGHT HAVE MORE INFORMATION THAN ME FROM, FROM, UH, THE TRANSIT DRIVERS POSSIBLY, BUT I DID HEAR THAT THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF THAT GOING ON, BUT NOT TO THE POINT WHERE IT WAS A MAJOR ISSUE.
UH, IT, YOU KNOW, MOVING FORWARD IT WILL BE SOMETHING THAT WE'RE SENSITIVE ABOUT.
UH, OUR PRIMARY, UH, FOCUS FOR THE USE OF THIS PROPERTY IS CERTAINLY TRANSIT.
AND IF THAT STARTS TO BE IMPACTED BY OTHER USES, UH, WE'LL START TO LOOK AT WAYS THAT WE CAN, UM, LIMIT THAT.
SO I JUST WANTED TO SAY TO THE CITY THAT, UM, GOOD JOB ON OPERATING AND MANAGING THIS.
THERE, THERE WERE A LOT OF CONCERNS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND I'M, I'M PART OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, AND, UH, NONE OF THEM WERE REALIZED.
AND THAT INCLUDED CONCERNS ABOUT PEDESTRIAN SAFETY AND FAMILIES WITH, UH, STROLLERS AND BABIES AND WALKING DOGS.
AND OUR CONCERN WAS THAT ARROW WOULD BE USED RATHER THAN THE, UH, ACCESS DOWN ON BOASTING.
CONCERN ABOUT WA PEOPLE WALKING, UH, PARKING ILLEGALLY.
AND THE, THE ONLY, ONLY, UM, ONLY ISSUE THAT REALLY AROSE WAS THE AMOUNT OF VOLUME DURING SPRING BREAK AND OTHER TIMES, WHICH OBVIOUSLY THAT PARKING LOT COULD NOT ACCOMMODATE.
[01:25:01]
AN INTEREST IN SEEING THAT CIRCULAR ACTIVITY WITHIN THE LOT, UM, BE USED INSTEAD OF DIRECTING, UM, SURPLUS CARS TO DO A KIND OF A Y TURN TO GET OUT MM-HMM.UM, THOSE CONCERNS, UH, DID NOT ARISE.
AND WHEN ONE DID ON ARROW WAS UNRELATED TO THE SHUTTLE, AND THE CITY RESPONDED IN SOMETHING LIKE 23 HOURS
SO THANK YOU FOR, UM, LISTENING, UM, NOT ONLY THE COMMISSION, BUT TO THE NEIGHBOR NEIGHBORHOOD AND, UM, THE THINGS THAT I BELIEVE I, I'VE HEARD YOU SAY ALL THE THINGS THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD REQUESTED, BUT I JUST WANTED TO BULLET THEM.
UM, THIS, I DIDN'T SEE EXPRESSING THE STAFF REPORT, AND THAT WAS THAT, UM, BOULDERS WOULD REPLACE THE TEMPORARY NO PARKING SIGNS ON THE WEST SIDE OF BOING.
AND, UM, THAT YOU CONTINUE TO ADD STAFFING DURING SPRING BREAK AND OTHER HOLIDAYS BECAUSE THE TCAS MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE AND THAT YOU'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO DO TRAFFIC MONITORING ON THE LOCAL STREETS AS PART OF IMPLEMENTING THE SHUTTLE.
AND, UH, THE NEIGHBORHOOD DID ASK THAT YOU INSTALL LOCAL TRAFFIC ONLY SIGNS.
AND I, I WANTED YOU TO, UM, TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AGAIN, IF YOU THINK THEY'RE APPROPRIATE, IF THEY, YOU THINK THEY DO THE JOB THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, UM, OR IF YOU THINK IT ADDS TO SIGN CLUTTER, BUT I JUST WANTED TO BRING THAT FORWARD.
THE, WE, WE TYPICALLY TRY TO STAY AWAY FROM SIGNAGE THAT, UM, ISN'T ENFORCEABLE ESSENTIALLY.
UM, AND I THINK THERE ARE WAYS THAT, YOU KNOW, UM, IMPLEMENTING THE PLAN FOR CIRCULATION WITHIN THE SITE, I THINK WE'LL HELP WITH THAT.
AND THEN WE, WE DID, UH, EARLY ON IN THE USE OF THE PROPERTY, WE DID INSTALL SOME TRAFFIC CONTROL THERE AT THE, AT THE DRIVEWAY ENTRANCE THAT I THINK IF WE HADN'T DONE THAT MM-HMM.
AND Y YOU KNOW, ONE, ONE THING, UH, WE HAVEN'T MENTIONED, BUT IN THE FUTURE, IF, IF, UH, WE FEEL LIKE WE NEED TO, THERE'S A STRIPED KIND OF, UM, ISLAND IN THE DRIVEWAY, IT'S, IT'S ONLY STRIPED TO TRY TO INDICATE THAT YOU COULD ONLY TURN RIGHT.
UH, WE COULD MAKE THAT A PERMANENT CONCRETE STRUCTURE SO THAT IT'S A LITTLE MORE OF A MM-HMM.
THAT MIGHT BE WORTH LOOKING AT.
SO IS THE COMMISSION READY TO, UM, MOVE FORWARD WITH A MOTION? WE HAVE THREE ACTUALLY.
THEY'RE, UM, FOUND ON PAGE 17 IF YOU ARE SCROLLING TO YOUR PACKET.
AND WE HAVE, UM, THE FIRST ONE BEING FOR THE MINOR CPA, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION.
WE'VE GOT THREE OF 'EM AND THREE OF US.
SO, UM, WE NEED TO DO 'EM SEPARATELY.
UH, THE FIRST ONE IS I MOVE TO RECOMMEND TO THE SEDONA CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED MINOR COMMUNITY PLAN AMENDMENT AS SET FORTH IN CASE NUMBER PZ 22 DASH 0 0 1 10 MINOR CPA, SEDONA SHUTTLE RE DESIGNATING AP N 4 0 1 DASH 25 DASH 0 0 2 N AND P FROM A SINGLE FAMILY, LOW DENSITY TO PUBLIC SEMI-PUBLIC BASED ON THE FINDINGS AS OUTLINED IN THE STAFF REPORT, AND SUBJECT TO ALL APPLICABLE REQUIREMENTS AS OUTLINED IN THE STAFF REPORT, WHICH STAFF REPORT IS HEREBY ADOPTED AS THE FINDINGS OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AND THE ATTACHED CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL.
AND THE NEXT MOTION FOR APPROVAL OF ZONE CHANGE.
I MOVE TO RECOMMEND TO THE SEDONA CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL, EXCUSE ME, APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED ZONING REQUEST IS SET FORTH IN CASE NUMBER PZ 22 0 0 1 0
[01:30:01]
SEDONA SHUTTLE REZONING AP N 4 0 1 2 5 0 0 2 N N P FROM RS 18, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL TO COMMUNITY FACILITIES BASED ON CONSISTENCY AND CONFORMANCE WITH THE COMMUNITY PLAN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS OF LDC SECTION 8.3 AND 8.6, AND SATISFACTION OF THE ZONE CHANGE FINDINGS AND APPLICABLE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REQUIREMENTS IS OUTLINED IN THE STAFF REPORT, WHICH STAFF REPORT IS HEREBY ADOPTED AS THE FINDINGS OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION IN THE INTENT AND THE ATTACHED CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL.WILL ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE? AYE.
OKAY, I'LL MAKE THE MOTION, UH, I MOVE TO APPROVE, UH, EXCUSE ME.
I MOVE APPROVAL OF CASE NUMBER PC 22 DASH 0 0 0 1 0 C U P, UH, SEDONA SHUTTLE BASED ON COMPLIANCE WITH ALL ORDINANCE, UH, REQUIREMENTS OF THE LDC SECTION 8.3 AND 8.4 OF THE, AND THE SATISFACTION OF THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT BINDS AND APPLICABLE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REQUIREMENTS IS OUTLINED IN THE STAFF REPORT, WHICH STAFF, UH, REPORT, WHICH IS HEREBY ADOPTED AS THE FINDINGS OF THE FINAL PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AND THE ATTACHED CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL.
WE'RE DONE WITH THAT AGENDA ITEM.
ANDY, WE'LL CATCH UP SOME OTHER TIME.
I'D LIKE TO TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK.
WE'LL COME BACK AND THEN, UM, UH, GO TO AGENDA, UH, ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, ACCIDENT.
[8A. Upon a public majority vote of the members constituting a quorum, the Planning and Zoning Commission may hold an Executive Session that is not open to the public to consult with legal counsel for advice on the training matters listed on this agenda per A.R.S. § 38-431.03(A)(3).]
ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, NEW MEMBER OPEN MEETING, LAW APPROVAL CRITERIA TRAINING.WE'RE GONNA HAVE A PORTION OF THIS PUBLICLY.
AND THEN, UM, AFTER KURT'S PRESENTATION, UM, WE WILL VOTE ON GOING INTO EXECUTIVES, UH, SESSION.
THANK YOU, CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS.
UH, SO THIS IS, UH, A TRAINING THAT HASN'T HAPPENED IN A LITTLE WHILE FOR P AND Z, UH, BUT SOMETHING THAT, UH, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT STAFF AND MYSELF HOPE TO DO WHENEVER WE HAVE NEW MEMBERS OR PERIODICALLY.
SO IF WE GET TOO FAR OUT AND FEEL LIKE WE NEED A REFRESHER, THEN WE'LL UPDATE THIS AND, AND MOVE FORWARD.
SO THE, THE SOME OF THIS, UH, THE BASIS FOR THIS TRAINING ACTUALLY CAME FROM A TRAINING THAT'S PROVIDED TO P AND Z BACK IN 2015.
AND THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE LAST TIME THAT WE DID A, A FULL FORMAL TRAINING.
INDIVIDUAL COUNSELORS HAVE BEEN TRAINED AS IT AS IT COMES, AS THEY COME ON BOARD.
UM, AT TIMES, UH, WE'VE HAD IN MEETINGS WITH INDIVIDUAL, INDIVIDUAL COMMISSIONERS.
UM, BUT IN THIS CASE, WE WANNA DO AN UPDATE WITH ALL OF THE COMMISSION AND, AND HOPE TO DO THIS PERIODICALLY.
UH, SO THE BRIEFLY THE AGENDA FOR THIS WILL BE FIRST, A OPEN MEETING, LAW TRAINING, UM, A REFRESHER FOR THOSE ALREADY ON THE COMMISSION, AND THEN A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, UH, BRIEF TRAINING.
AND THEN WE'LL MOVE INTO THE ACTUAL PLANNING AND ZONING RULES OF THE COMMISSION, UH, AND END UP WITH THE APPROVAL CRITERIA, UH, WHICH ARE THE SAME APPROVAL CRITERIA FOR ALL OF THE, UM, ACTIONS, UH, GENERALLY THAT THE COMMISSION, UH, WILL MAKE.
SO BEGINNING WITH, UH, OPEN MEETING LAW, UM, IT'S THE PUBLIC POLICIES STATED DIRECTLY IN THE, UH, STATE LAW THAT THE MEETINGS OF PUBLIC BODIES, WHICH THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION IS A PUBLIC BODY, UH, MUST BE CONDUCTED OPENLY AND THAT NOTICES AND AGENDAS BE PROVIDED.
UH, IT ALSO STATES SPECIFICALLY IN THE LAW THAT ANYONE THAT'S IN CHARGE OF CONSTRUING THE ARTICLE OR INTERPRETING THE ARTICLE, UH, MUST CONSTRUE IT IN FAVOR OF OPEN AND PUBLIC MEETINGS.
SO IF IT'S EVER A GRAY AREA OR, OR A QUESTION WHETHER OR NOT WE HAVE TO DO IT, THEN MY ANSWER PER THE LAW SHOULD BE, YEAH, WE SHOULD MAKE IT MORE OPEN RATHER THAN TRYING TO, UH, MAKE THINGS LESS OPEN.
UM, I WILL GO THROUGH IT JUST BRIEFLY.
UM, A LEGAL ACTION, UM, IS ON THE NEXT PAGE HERE.
UM, IT'S A COLLECTIVE DECISION, COMMITMENT OR PROMISE MADE BY A PUBLIC BODY.
[01:35:01]
ANYTIME THAT THE COMMISSION'S GOING TO TAKE A LEGAL ACTION, IT HAS TO DO SO PUBLICLY.SO, ALTHOUGH WE ARE ALLOWED TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION FOR LEGAL ADVICE, AND, UH, UH, WHICH WOULD PROBABLY BE THE ONLY ONE THAT COMES UP HERE, UH, FOR THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, UH, NO ACTION COULD EVER BE TAKEN IN, IN A, UH, EXECUTIVE SESSION.
UH, AND IN FACT, IT WOULD ONLY BE PURELY FOR LEGAL ADVICE.
ONCE IT STARTS TO MOVE INTO DISCUSSION, COUNCIL, COMMISSIONERS WANTING TO DISCUSS THINGS, THEN THAT'S ONLY APPROPRIATE BACK IN AN OPEN SESSION.
UM, A MEETING ISN'T HAVE, DOESN'T HAVE TO BE, UH, WHAT YOU THINK OF THIS FORMAL P AND Z MEETING.
UH, FOUR COMMISSIONERS OF A, OF THE P AND Z COMMISSION MAKES A, A MAJORITY OR MAKES A QUORUM.
AND SO THE FOUR OF YOU COULD HOLD A MEETING, THE FOUR HERE, OR SARAH, WHO'S STILL ON THE, WITH US, UH, ONLINE, UH, FOUR COMMISSIONERS COULD HOLD A MEETING ANYTIME, ANYWHERE.
AND IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE AN AGENDA AND PUBLIC NOTICE, THEN THAT WOULD BE AN OPEN MEETING LAW VIOLATION.
AND SO IT CAN BE THROUGH TECHNOLOGICAL DEVICES, AND IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE, UM, CONCURRENTLY.
SO IF ONE COMMISSIONER SENDS A MESSAGE TO ANOTHER COMMISSIONER, AND THAT MESSAGE THEN GETS FORWARD TO ANOTHER COMMISSIONER, AND THEN ANOTHER COMMISSIONER, YOU NOW HELD PER THE LAW A MEETING, UM, AND IT, BECAUSE IT WASN'T PUBLICLY NOTICED AND AGENDAS, IT, UH, COULD BE A VIOLATION.
SO, UH, THE PROCEDURES, AND THIS IS WHAT STAFF TAKES CARE OF, UM, IS THEY POST PUBLIC NOTICES.
UM, AN AGENDA HAS TO BE PUBLISHED AT LEAST 24 HOURS BEFOREHAND.
THAT'S NOT THE, UM, THERE'S ADDITIONAL, UM, NOTICE REQUIREMENTS FOR ZONE CHANGES, UH, FOR MAJOR MINOR COMMUNITY PLAN AMENDMENTS, THINGS LIKE THAT, WHICH ARE ACTUALLY A LOT LONGER THAN 24 HOURS.
BUT AS FOR THE ACTUAL AGENDA, IT MUST BE, UH, PUBLISHED, UH, AND POSTED AT LEAST 24 HOURS, UH, BEFORE P AND Z MEETS.
SO, UH, AND ON A RARE OCCASION, UM, AND YOU'LL SEE IT MORE TYPICALLY WITH, UM, WITH CITY COUNCIL, BUT THE AGENDAS CAN BE UPDATED UP TO THE 24 HOURS, SO THE DAY BEFORE THE MEETING'S GOING TO GOING TO TAKE PLACE.
UH, AND THEN LASTLY, AS YOU'RE AWARE THAT THE AGENDA MUST INCLUDE ALL ITEMS THAT ARE GOING TO BE DISCUSSED BY COUNCIL.
SO WHEN WE HAVE THE PUBLIC FORUM, MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC CAN COME IN AND THEY CAN DISCUSS ANYTHING THEY WANT FOR THEIR THREE MINUTES.
UM, SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T EVEN SEEM, UH, RELATED TO ANYTHING THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN IN P AND Z, BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE ALLOWED TO AS, AS PART OF THE PUBLIC FORUM.
BUT, UH, P AND Z COMMISSION MEMBERS CAN'T DISCUSS THE ANY ITEM THAT'S NOT ON THE AGENDA.
AND THE LOSS STATES THAT IT'S ANYTHING THAT'S, UH, TOWARDS THE END HERE.
UM, I CAN'T SEE MY, UM, WELL, THE LAST ONE, AGENDA AND OTHER MATTERS RELATED THERE TOO.
SO THIS MOUSE, I HAVE THE WRONG MOUSE.
AND OTHER MATTERS RELATED THERE TOO.
AND SO THE, THE COURTS HAVE INTERPRETED THAT AS LONG AS IT'S REASONABLY RELATED TO WHAT'S ON THE AGENDA, THEN YOU'RE, YOU'RE OKAY.
UM, BUT IF IT'S COMPLETELY UNRELATED, UH, THEN YOU'RE GOING TO BE OFF TOPIC AND YOU COULD BE IN VIOLATION OF THE OPEN MEETING LAW.
AND I'M, UH, FEEL FREE TO ASK QUESTIONS.
UM, ANYTIME DURING THIS, UH, I'M GONNA MOVE QUICKLY, UM, UNLESS THERE'S, UH, UH, ANY QUESTIONS OR FURTHER DISCUSSION THAT THE COMMISSION WANTS.
UH, SO THERE ARE SEVEN DIFFERENT TYPES OF EXECUTIVE SESSIONS.
UM, AND I ACTUALLY THINK THAT'S EIGHT NOW.
UH, THEY ADDED AN ADDITIONAL ONE FOR PUBLIC SAFETY, UH, THIS LAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION.
UM, BUT THE ONES THAT WOULD COME UP HERE COULD POTENTIALLY BE, UM, NUMBER TWO, DISCUSSION OR CONSIDERATION OF, OF A RECORDS EXEMPT BY LAW FROM THE PUBLIC INSPECTION, UM, WHICH COULD INCLUDE SOME PUBLIC FACILITIES.
UM, AND THE, THE, UH, PERHAPS THE DIAGRAMS OR MAPS FOR, SAY, LIKE WASTEWATER FACILITIES.
UH, NOT ALL OF THAT IS PUBLIC INFORMATION, CAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO, UH, UH, ANYTHING TO HAPPEN TO SOME OF THAT INFORMATION OR SOME OF THOSE FACILITIES.
UH, AND THEN THE ONE MOST LIKELY WOULD BE DISCUSSION OR CONSULTATION FOR LEGAL ADVICE WITH THE ATTORNEY OR ATTORNEYS OF THE PUBLIC BODY.
AND THEN, LIKE I SAID, THIS, UH, IN A EXECUTIVE SESSION, NO VOTE CAN BE TAKEN, NO ACTION.
UM, IT WOULD BE, UH, STRICTLY FOR, UH, QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS WITH THE, THE ATTORNEY.
AND THEN, UM, IN AN EXECUTIVE DISCUSSION DISCUSSION, THERE'S AN ADMONITION THAT'S GIVEN AT THE BEGINNING OF EVERY EXECUTIVE SESSION PER STATE LAW.
AND IT JUST STATES THAT ALL THE MINUTES AND DISCUSSIONS OF THE EXECUTIVE SESSION ARE CONFIDENTIAL AND CAN'T BE DISCUSSED OR DISCLOSED WITH ANYONE OUTSIDE OF THE PNC COMMISSION OR ANYONE ELSE WHO WAS PRESENT AT THE, AT THE, UH, EXECUTIVE SESSION, UH, VIOLATION.
SO ANY VIOLATION OF THE OPEN MEETING LAW, UM, CAN, CAN RESULT IN, IN A, A VARIETY OF, OF PUNISHMENTS, UH, PENALTIES.
I GUESS WHAT WE COULD GO THROUGH, UM, LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE, IT CAN HAPPEN EITHER IN PERSON ON TELEPHONE OR ELECTRONICALLY.
UM, AND HERE'S SOME OF THE WAYS THAT THAT HAPPENS.
[01:40:01]
UH, ONE'S THE DAISY CHAIN, UH, WHICH IS WHAT I SPOKE ABOUT, WHERE ONE COMMISSIONER TALKS TO ANOTHER AND SAYS, HEY, YOU KNOW, COMMISSIONER HEARST SAID THIS, AND I AGREE, WHAT DO YOU THINK? UH, AND THAT'S FINE CAUSE THAT'D JUST BE THREE.BUT THEN WHEN THAT COMMISSIONER MOVES ON AND TALKS TO ANOTHER COMMISSIONER, SAY, HEY, COMMISSIONER, YOU KNOW, HEARST AND ANOTHER COMMISSIONER AND MYSELF, I'LL THINK THIS, WHAT DO YOU THINK? UH, NOW YOU HAVE A POTENTIAL OPEN MEETING, LAW VIOLATION.
UH, AND THEN THE OTHER ONE WOULD BE A HUB AND SPOKE.
SO IF THERE, IF THERE WAS JUST ONE COMMISSIONER WHO WAS, UM, UH, ENJOYED THE COMPANY OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS SO MUCH, AND LOVED CHATTING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, CITY BUSINESS, AND JUST WENT AROUND AND CONTINUE TO, TO TALK TO OTHER COMMISSIONERS, AND YOU COULD KIND OF HAVE A ONE PERSON END UP VIOLATING THAT, UH, VIOLATION CAN ALSO OCCUR THROUGH STAFF.
UM, IF, UM, UH, IF THE, IF THE STAFF PERSON'S NOT WARY OR THE COMMISSIONERS.
AND SO YOU COULD, UH, A STAFF PERSON COULD BE THE, THE, THE HUB OF THE SPOKE OR THE DAISY CHAIN.
UH, BUT THE STAFF'S OBVIOUSLY ALLOWED TO PROVIDE COMMISSIONERS WITH ANY INFORMATION THEY WANT, UM, OR NEED.
UH, BUT THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DISCUSS OR PROVIDE COMMISSIONERS WHAT, WHAT, UH, WHAT OTHER COMMISSIONERS THINK ABOUT AN ITEM OR WHAT, HOW THEY'RE GONNA VOTE ON AN ITEM.
IF THEY'VE HAD WERE PRIVY TO THAT KNOWLEDGE, THAT'S WHERE THE VIOLATION WOULD OCCUR.
SO, WHO, SORRY, WHO IS IN VIOLATION? UM, LET'S JUST SAY THE HUB AND SPOKE MODEL.
IS IT THE HUB THAT'S IN VIOLATION? OR ARE THE SPOKES IN VIOLATION IF THEY'RE UNAWARE THAT THEY'RE BEING PULLED OR THEY'RE BEING WHATEVER? SO IF YOU EVEN, UM, UNINTENTIONAL VIOLATIONS COULD, COULD RESULT, UH, COULD I, I SAY COULD, AND IT HASN'T HAPPENED TO MY KNOWLEDGE, WHERE THE ATTORNEY GENERALIST HAS SANCTIONED ANY PUBLIC MEMBER OF A PUBLIC BODY WHO COMPLETELY UNINTENTIONALLY VIOLATED THE OPEN MEETING LAW.
USUALLY YOU GET A LETTER OF REPRIMAND AND SOME REMEDIAL TRAINING, UM,
UM, SOMEONE WHO HAD ONLY SPOKE WITH ONE OTHER COMMISSIONER AND THEN HAD NO IDEA WHAT THE OTHER COMMISSIONER DID WITH THE INFORMATION, UH, I, I DON'T THINK WOULD BE SUBJECT TO AN OPEN MEETING LAW VIOLATION.
UM, IF IT WAS YOU DIDN'T KNOW, UH, IF YOU KNEW THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE, OR YOU'D SUGGESTED, HEY, PASS THIS ON, THEN CERTAINLY THAT WOULD BE A VIOLATION.
UM, AND THEN IT IS A VIOLATION TO DIRECT STAFF TO VIOLATE THE OPEN MEETING LAW.
UM, AND SO, AND THAT'S, UH, MERELY TO DIRECT, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE STAFF FOLLOW THROUGH WITH IT.
UM, AND, AND SO LUCKILY THAT HAS NEVER HAPPENED.
UH, THE PENALTY, SO PRIMARILY A CIVIL PENALTY, UM, BUT IT COULD BE UP TO, UH, REMOVAL FROM OFFICE.
UM, ALSO, IF A ACTION IS TAKEN THAT'S NOT ON THE AGENDA OR ACTIONS TAKEN IN, UH, EXECUTIVE SESSION, WHICH WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE, THEN IT WOULD BE NULLIFIED SO THERE WOULDN'T, UH, UH, IT WOULD BE VOID.
UM, SO THE PENALTIES CAN BE, UH, UP TO $500 FOR EACH VIOLATION.
AND IF THERE'S HAPPENS TO BE MORE THAN ONE AND YOU CONTINUE TO THE ACTION, THAT COULD BE UP TO 2,500 FOR A THIRD OR SUBSEQUENT VIOLATIONS.
UM, AND THE CITY IF, UH, FOR, FOR PENALTIES, UM, SPECIFICALLY INTENTIONAL ONES, THE CITY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PAY THE FINE, UH, FOR THE COMMISSION MEMBERS, UM, IN SOME CASES WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO, IF IT THERE CONTINUED TO BE INTENTIONAL VIOLATIONS, UH, WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO EVEN REPRESENT, UM, THE, THE COMMISSION MEMBER.
CONFLICT OF INTEREST, UM, YOU HAVE BOTH THE, THE GENERAL IDEA OF A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, WHICH YOU SHOULD ALWAYS BE AWARE OF, UM, AND THE APPEARANCE OF A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
UH, ONE DEFINITION WOULD BE FROM BLACKS LAW DICTIONARY, A REAL OR SEEMINGLY INCOMPATIBILITY BE BETWEEN ONE'S PRIVATE INTEREST AND ONE'S PUBLIC OR FIDUCIARY DUTIES.
UH, BUT THE ARIZONA STATE LAW, THE, AND AND I STATE, YOU SHOULD BE AWARE OF THAT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE PUBLIC SEES, AND THEY, THEY MAY PERCEIVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, EVEN IF THERE'S NOT ONE PER STATE LAW.
UH, IF THERE'S A ARIZONA REVISED STATUTE, THEN THE SECTIONS ARE LISTED THERE.
IF THERE'S THAT TYPE OF CONFLICT OF INTEREST, THEN YOU HAVE TO RECUSE YOURSELF FROM PARTICIPATING IN THAT MATTER.
UM, BUT IF THERE'S A PERCEIVED CONFLICT OF INTEREST, THEN IT'S PROBABLY BEST TO, TO IDENTIFY THAT YOU CAN GET AN OPINION FROM THE, FROM MYSELF, FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, UH, WHICH WILL PROTECT YOU, UM, IF YOU, IF YOU FOLLOW THE OPINION OF THE CITY ATTORNEY, UM, BE WRITTEN DOWN.
SO THAT'S WHY I USUALLY, IF I GET THOSE QUESTIONS, I USUALLY SAY, YOU KNOW, SHOOT ME AN EMAIL AND THEN I'LL RESPOND.
SO, WHAT'S IN WRITING? AND SO WE HAVE A RECORD OF THAT.
UM, AND THEN THE, THE, THE DIFFERENCE THOUGH, BEING THE, IF THERE'S AN ACTUAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST, YOU, YOU HAVE TO RECUSE YOURSELF, UH, AND YOU CAN'T VOTE ON IT.
IF THERE'S JUST A PERCEPTION OF ONE, BUT IT'S NOT AN ACTUAL, THEN IT'S BEST JUST TO NOT, YOU MAKE SURE THAT'S NOT ONLY I'M AWARE OF IT, UH, BUT AT TIMES YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, ANNOUNCE IT AND LET PEOPLE KNOW, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, SO FOR EXAMPLE, UM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S
[01:45:01]
NOT A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, UH, CHAIR LEVIN AT THE EARLIER AGENDA ITEM, UH, ANNOUNCED THAT, YOU KNOW, SHE'S LIVES WITHIN THAT SPHERE OF INFLUENCE OF THE NEIGHBOR AND HAS SOME INTEREST IN, IN THAT, THAT, UH, SOME OTHER P AND Z COMMISSIONERS MAY NOT.SO, BUT GETTING TO THE ACTUAL DEFINITION, UM, IT'S A SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST.
AND THEN SPECULATION COMES REALLY FROM IF YOU'VE, WHETHER YOU'RE INVESTED IN THE PROPERTY OR THE BUSINESS OR WHATEVER'S HAPPENING, HAPPENING TO BE DEVELOPED.
AND SO, UM, AND, AND THEY HAVE A LIST OF REMOTE INTERESTS, UM, THAT'S LISTED IN THE STATE LAW.
REMOTE INTERESTS, FOR EXAMPLE, COULD BE, YOU COULD ACTUALLY BE A SHAREHOLDER OF A COMPANY, AS LONG AS YOU DON'T OWN MORE THAN LIKE 3% OF THE COMPANY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU COULD STILL VOTE ON SOMETHING.
SO THERE'S, IT'S ARIZONA'S DEFINITION OF CONFLICT INTEREST.
IT REALLY IS FAIRLY NARROWER THAN WHAT MOST PEOPLE THINK.
UM, A SO SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST IS ANYBODY WHO HAS A PECUNIARY, A PROPRIETARY INTEREST IN THE PROPERTY.
UH, AND THAT JUST MEANS THE COURT OF APPEALS DEFINED IT FOR US.
UH, MORE SUCCINCTLY MEANS MONEY, UH, OR OWNERSHIP.
AND SO, UH, GENERALLY, UNLESS YOU OWN THE BUSINESS OR THE PROPERTY, UM, OR ARE INVESTED IN IT SOMEHOW, ARE YOU GONNA MAKE MONEY OFF OF IT OR NOT? UM, UNLESS IT'S THOSE TYPES OF AREAS, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE A, A CONFLICT OF INTEREST IF I SHARE, SO.
AND IS THAT, UM, DOES, THAT DOES NOT EXTEND TO SPOUSES? UH, NO, IT DOES FAMILY, SOME FAMILY MEMBERS, NOT OTHERS.
BUT YES, IT DOES EXTEND, IT DOES EXTEND ITS SPOUSES, YES.
UH, AS A COMMUNITY PROPERTY SPA STATE GENERALLY, UNLESS GENERALLY ONES OWNS, ONE SPOUSE OWNS THE OTHER OWNS.
SO, UM, AND THEN THIS, UH, IS A GOOD QUOTE.
IT SAYS, WE NOT BELIEVE, HOWEVER, THAT THE LEGISLATURE INTENDED THE WORD WORD INTEREST FOR PURPOSES OF DISQUALIFICATION WAS TO INCLUDE A MERE ABSTRACT INTEREST IN THE GENERAL SUBJECT, OR A MERE POSSIBLE CONTINGENT INTEREST.
RATHER, THE TERM REFERS TO PECUNIARY OR PROPRIETARY INTEREST BY WHICH A PERSON WILL GAIN OR LOSE SOMETHING AS CONTRASTED TO A GENERAL SYMPATHY FEELING OR BIAS.
SO WE EXPECT YOU AS RESIDENTS, AND IT'S PLANNING ZONING COMMISSIONERS TO HAVE FEELINGS OF, UH, SYMPATHY, UM, AND, AND FEELING, UH, GENERAL SYMPATHY, FEELING OR BIAS TOWARDS PROPERTIES.
YOU'RE HERE TO DO A CERTAIN ROLE, AND YOU REPRESENT THE COMMUNITY, UM, ON THESE, THESE PROPERTIES.
AND SO, UH, YOU, YOU CERTAINLY ARE WELCOME TO AND HAVE THOSE FEELINGS OF WHAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THE, FOR THE CITY AND WHAT IS NOT.
UH, BUT THAT JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE THOSE FEELINGS DOESN'T MEAN IT'S A CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND THEN THE PENALTIES.
SO IT'S ACTUALLY, UM, A LOT MORE, UH, THE PENALTIES LOT MORE SIGNIFICANT FOR VIOLATING CONFLICT OF INTEREST LAWS THAN THEY ARE FOR VIOLATING OPEN MEETING LAW.
ANYONE WHO INTENTIONALLY OR NORMALLY VIOLATES A CONFLICT OF INTEREST LAW WOULD BE GUILTY OF A CLASS SIX FELONY, UM, WHICH IS, COULD BE PUNISHABLE BY MIS SERIOUS.
UM, UH, AND THEN IF YOU, ANYONE WHO DOES IT RECKLESSLY OR NEGLIGENTLY WOULD BE GUILTY OF A CLASS ONE MISDEMEANOR.
UH, AND ANY PERSON FOUND GUILTY OF, UH, OF A COMP VIOLATING CONFLICT OF INTEREST HAS TO FORFEIT THEIR PUBLIC OFFICE OR EMPLOYMENT.
UH, AND SO THAT'S WHERE A OPINION FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY, UH, CAN HELP.
UM, SO IF YOU GET AN OPINION FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY SAYING, YEAH, THERE'S NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST THERE, AND YOU FOLLOW THAT, THEN, UH, IT'S VERY UNLIKELY THAT YOU COULD BE FOUND.
WELL, YOU CERTAINLY COULDN'T BE FOUND TO INTENTIONALLY OR KNOWINGLY HAVE VIOLATED THE OPEN MEETING LAW, UM, AND VERY UNLIKELY IT COULD BE FOUND TO BE RECKLESSLY OR NEGLIGENTLY VIOLATING THE CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.
AND SO NOW WE'RE GONNA MOVE INTO THE PLANNING, UM, PORTION OF, SO THAT'S THE END OF THE, THE FIRST TWO.
UH, AND I'LL MOVE INTO PLANNING, AND THEN WE'LL JUST ONE SLIDE HERE, I'M PLANNING, AND THEN WE'LL MOVE INTO ZONING.
AND SO, PLANNING'S ACTUALLY A SECTION OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION THAT SEEMS TO BE OVERLOOKED A LOT.
UH, PRIMARILY YOU'RE TASKED WITH DECIDING, UM, ZONE CHANGES, UH, OBTAINING THE LDC A LOT OF DIFFERENT AREAS, BUT P AND Z IS PER THE ORDINANCE.
ONE OF THE DUTIES OF THE P AND Z COMMISSION IS TO DEVELOP, SUBMIT, AND MAINTAIN THE GENERAL PLAN.
UM, AND SO THAT'S WHY STAFF COMES TO P AND Z WHEN THEY'RE READY TO DO A COMMUNITY PLAN UPDATE AND SAYS, HERE'S OUR PLAN TO UPDATE THE COMMUNITY PLAN.
WE PLAN ON DOING, YOU KNOW, X, Y, AND Z AND HOLDING THE PUBLIC OUTREACH P AND Z.
DO YOU APPROVE OF THIS PLAN? UM, AND THEN GETS YOUR COMMENTS AND UPDATES THE PLAN, THE PLAN TO UPDATE THE PLAN ACCORDINGLY.
UM, SO, UH, P AND Z DEVELOPS THE PLAN THROUGH STAFF, THROUGH THE WORK GROUPS, BUT ULTIMATELY THE DIFFERENT PORTIONS AND THE WHOLE COMMUNITY PLAN UPDATE COMES TO P AND Z FOR A RECOMMENDATION, UH, TO THEN SUBMIT IT TO CITY COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL.
UH, AND THEN P AND Z ALSO MAINTAINS THE GENERAL PLAN, UH, WHICH HE DID PARTLY BY TONIGHT, BY DOING A MINOR COMMUNITY PLAN AMENDMENT.
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UH, SO OVER THAT 10 YEAR PERIOD, IT'S NOT A STATIC PLAN.IT CAN CHANGE, UH, CFAS ARE AMENDED, THE COMMUNITY PLANS AMENDED, AND P AND Z IS TASKED WITH MAKING THOSE, UH, FIRST RECOMMENDATIONS AND REVIEWING THAT, UH, BEFORE IT GETS SENT TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
UH, THE STATE LAW REQUIRES ALSO THAT THE P AND Z HOLD AT LEAST ONE PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE MAKING A RECOMMENDATION ON APPROVAL OR AMENDING THE, THE COMMUNITY PLAN.
AND SO THAT'S AGAIN, WHAT WE, WE DID TONIGHT AND WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH THE, THE 10 YEAR COMMUNITY PLAN UPDATE.
ANY QUESTIONS ON P AND Z'S ROLE IN, IN PLANNING? SO THAT'S, THAT'S, IT'S RIGHT THERE IN THE, IN THE ORDINANCE.
UH, ANYTIME P AND Z FILLS, WHICH I THINK WAS ONE THING THAT HAPPENED THIS YEAR, P AND Z DID ASK FOR, UH, REGULAR UPDATES ON THE COMMUNITY PLAN.
UH, SO IT COULD, COULD MONITOR THAT AND BE A LITTLE MORE INVOLVED IN THAT.
AND THAT'S WELL WITHIN ITS RIGHTS AS PART OF THE ORIGINAL ORDINANCE, UH, ESTABLISHING PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.
UH, SO ZONING, UM, SO I'LL SKIP RIGHT DOWN TO THE END THERE, BUT IT'S THE, UM, THE CONSTITUTIONAL POWERS OF CITIES AND TOWNS TO PROTECT THE HEALTH, SAFETY AND GENERAL WELFARE OF THEIR PRESENT AND FUTURE INHABITANTS.
UH, ZONING STARTED REALLY IN THE 1920S WITH, UM, A CASE, UM, EUCLID VILLAGE OF EUCLID VERSUS AMBLER REALTY COMPANY BACK IN 1926.
AND SO THAT'S WHERE WE GET THE, THE PHRASE, UH, UCLI IN ZONING.
UM, AND FROM THERE, IT'S JUST EXPANDED.
UM, NEW YORK CITY WAS ONE OF THE, UH, LEADING CITIES TRYING TO IMPLEMENT ZONING FROM THE, FROM THE 19 TEENS ONWARD.
UH, ARIZONA REALLY DIDN'T ADOPT A COMPREHENSIVE ZONING STATUTE THAT EN ENABLED CITIES AND COUNTIES TO DO ZONING UNTIL THE 1970S, UM,
AND SO, UH, WE WERE, YOU KNOW, 50 YEARS BEHIND SOME OF THE OTHER ONES.
UM, AND THAT'S WHERE WE, WE SEE SOME PROJECTS COME TO THIS CITY, UM, NOW THROUGH FOR REZONES OR OTHER THINGS.
AND IT'S LIKE, WELL, WHAT TYPE OF ZONING DO THEY HAVE? WELL, THEY HAD WHAT OTHER ZONING, YOU KNOW, THE, THE COUNTIES GAVE THEM WHEN THE COUNTIES FIRST PUT ZONING IN, IN THE SEVENTIES.
AND THERE'S PLENTY OF USES HERE IN, IN THE CITY OF SEDONA THAT HAVE EXISTED PRE PREZONING, PRE COUNTY ZONING IN THE SIXTIES OR FIFTIES.
AND SO, UM, IT'S AN INTERESTING, UH, ISSUES THAT WE GET A DEAL WITH SOMETIMES.
SO, UM, HERE'S ONE QUOTE, UM, FROM, FROM A CASE ABOUT ZONING.
IT SAYS, UH, A QUIET PLACE WHERE YARDS ARE WIDE PEOPLE.
FEW AND MOTOR VEHICLES RESTRICTED ARE LEGITIMATE GUIDELINES AND LAND USE PROJECT ADDRESSED TO FAMILY NEEDS.
THE GOAL IS PERMISSIBLE ONE, UH, WITH WITHIN, WITHIN PROCEEDING CASE LAW, THE POLICE POWER IS NOT CONFINED TO ELIMINATION OF FILTH, STENCH AND UNHEALTHY PLACES.
IT IS AMPLE TO LAY OUT ZONES WHERE FAMILY VALUES, YOUTH VALUES, AND THE BLESSINGS OF QUIET SECLUSION AND CLEAN AIR MAKE THE AREA A SANCTUARY FOR THE PEOPLE.
AND THAT WAS FROM A SUPREME COURT CASE IN 1974.
UM, MORE RECENTLY WITH THE HOUSING AFFORDABILITY CRISIS, UH, WE'RE RUNNING INTO, UH, MORE COMPETING RIGHTS BETWEEN, UH, THE CITY'S POLICE POWER AND ZONING AUTHORITY, UH, TO, TO MAINTAIN THAT SMALL TOWN CHARACTER AND AESTHETICS VERSUS PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS.
UM, ALTERNATIVELY, THE CITY COULD, UH, GRANDFATHER THAT PROPERTY FOREVER FROM THAT, FROM THAT NEW LAND USE LAW THAT IT ENACTED.
UH, AND SO YOU SEE NOW, UH, PROPOSALS IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE, UH, REMOVING SINGLE FAMILY ZONING OR REQUIRING, UM, CITIES TO, UM, ALLOW ALL TYPES OF USES THAT THE CITIES TRADITIONALLY HAVE NOT IN ORDER TO, TO BUILD MORE HOUSING AND RESIDENTIAL AREAS, UH, SPECIFICALLY WITH ONE, ONE LAW THAT WAS PROPOSED LAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION.
SO THERE'S, UH, A COMPETING, COMPETING OBJECTIVES THERE, UM, BOTH THE POLICE POWER AND THE RIGHT OF CITIES TO CONTROL, UM, THE AESTHETICS OF A CITY AND, AND WHAT SHOULD TAKE PLACE IN DIFFERENT ZONING DISTRICTS VERSUS THE PRIVATE PROPERTIES OWNER, RIGHT TO U UTILIZE THEIR PROPERTY, UH, TO, TO THEIR FULLEST EXTENT AND, AND, AND, AND ENACT SOME, UH, VALUE FROM THEIR PROPERTY.
SO, P AND Z COMMISSION'S ROLE IS SOMETIMES TO, TO BALANCE THOSE OUT.
UH, PER THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, IT'S, IT'S SPECIFICALLY TO REVIEW, UM, AND HAS THE DECISION AUTHORITY LISTED IN TABLE ONE.
AND THAT'S IN SECTION LDC, SECTION 8.2.
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IF YOU HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THAT RECENTLY, UH, YOU'LL RECOGNIZE IT.HERE'S SOME OF THE P AND Z COMMISSION'S ROLE.
AND SO I HIGHLIGHTED IT THERE, UM, RIGHT HERE, AND THEN UP HERE'S THE, THE KEY, AND THIS IS WHAT THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION DOES.
UH, AND SO FOR, UM, FOR THE MINOR DEVELOPMENT, UM, THE PLANNING AND, AND ZONING COMMISSION'S ROLE, UH, IS JUST TO, FOR DEVELOPMENT REVIEW, A MINOR ONE IS JUST, IS AN APPEAL.
SO IF THEY DON'T LIKE THE DECISION OF THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR, THEY CAN APPEAL IT TO, UH, PLANNING AND ZONING, UH, FOR, UH, MAJOR DEVELOPMENT REVIEW.
UH, THE PLANNING AND ZONING HAS THE DECISION REVIEW AND DECISION MAKING AUTHORITY, AND AN APPEAL WOULD THEN GO TO CITY COUNCIL.
UH, SAME WITH A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, WHICH WAS GRANTED, UH, TONIGHT TO THE CITY FOR THE, FOR THE, UH, TRAILHEAD SHUTTLE PARKING RIDE.
UH, THAT'S WAS THE, THAT WAS, IF YOU NOTICE WHEN YOU'RE MAKING THE MOTIONS, THE FIRST TWO WERE RECOMMEND RECOMMENDATIONS TO CITY COUNCIL.
UH, THE THIRD ONE WAS JUST APPROVAL OF THE C U P.
UM, ANYONE, UH, WHO DIDN'T LIKE THAT, UM, DECISION COULD APPEAL THAT TO CITY COUNCIL.
UH, MOVING ON TO YOU HAVE SUBDIVISION PROCEDURES.
SO BACK IN, UH, OCTOBER OR NOVEMBER, WE, IN OCTOBER, WE APPROVED A COUPLES, UH, SUBDIVISION PLANTS PLANNING AND ZONING.
DID, UM, UH, OR, OR REVIEWED, THEY REVIEWED, UH, ARE THEY REVIEWED AND MADE A RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL.
UH, THE FINAL DECISION ON THAT ONE, THE REVIEWING DECISION GOES TO CITY COUNCIL.
UH, AND THEN FURTHER DOWN, YOU SEE THE, UM, REVERSION TO ACREAGE.
UH, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'VE HAD MANY OF THOSE, CARRIE.
YEAH, GENERALLY PEOPLE WANT TO HIRE USES OF THEIR LAND AND DENSITY AND, UH, NOT LESS.
SO THAT ONE HASN'T COME UP, BUT REZONES COME UP.
UM, UH, PLAN DEVELOPMENTS COME UP AND CODE AMENDMENTS.
THE LDC AMENDMENTS ALL COME TO, UH, P AND Z FOR REVIEW.
UM, AND A RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL PRIOR TO ADOPTION, UH, ONE THAT'S NOT LISTED IS THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGNATION.
UM, SO AT SOME POINT, THE, UM, HISTORIC, UH, PRESERVATION COMMISSION MAY RECOMMEND THE CITY ADOPT A, A HISTORIC DISTRICT, UM, OF COMPOSED OF, IT COULD BE PRETTY SMALL OR LARGE.
UM, AND THAT DECISION WOULD, I BELIEVE THE, THAT'S A REVIEW AND RECOMMEND, UM, THAT WOULD ALSO COME TO P AND Z FOR REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL ON WHETHER OR NOT TO ADOPT, UH, HISTORIC DESIGNATION, A DISTRICT DESIGNATION.
UH, THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT TEAM AND THE DIRECTOR ARE PART OF, UM, YOUR TEAM, UH, AND THEY WORK WITH YOU.
SO THEY, UH, HERE'S SOME OF THE THINGS THAT THEY DO, UH, BUT THEY ASSIST BOTH THE COMMISSION AND THE COUNCIL.
UH, THEY PREPARE PACKETS, AND WE'LL GET INTO A LITTLE MORE DETAIL ABOUT WHAT THEY, WHAT THEY DO, UM, UH, IN THE EXECUTIVE SESSION WITH SOME LEGAL ADVICE.
UM, HERE ARE SOME KEY PRINCIPLES IN ZONING, UM, THAT YOU'LL SEE FROM, UM, AS, AS WE GO THROUGH HERE, UM, WE'LL GO THROUGH A FEW OF THESE, UH, DUE PROCESS AND EQUAL, EQUAL APPLICATION.
UM, WE'LL GO IN A LITTLE DETAIL ABOUT NOLAN AND DOLAN, UM, AND THE POLICE POWER.
UM, BUT I'LL KEEP IT, KEEP IT BRIEF.
I KNOW IT CAN BORE A LOT OF PEOPLE.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S TOO MANY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WATCHING, BUT I WON'T TRY TO HOLD UP THE P AND Z COMMISSION TOO MUCH.
UH, SO HERE'S THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONCEPTS THAT YOU NEED TO BE AWARE OF.
UM, WHEN, WHENEVER THE CITY IS GOING TO APPROVE OR DENY LAND USE, UH, THERE'S A LOT OF UNDERLYING ISSUES GOING ON, AND THERE'S A LOT OF REASONS FOR WHICH SOMEONE COULD APPEAL.
UM, THE FIRST ONE WAS, UH, TAKING'S CLAIMANT OF THE FIFTH AMENDMENT.
UH, NOR SHALL PRIVATE PROPERTY BE TAKEN FOR PUBLIC USE WITHOUT JUST COMPENSATION.
UH, AND THAT'S, UH, LED TO A LOT OF LITIGATION OVER THE YEAR.
ALSO, PART OF THE FIFTH AMENDMENT IS A DUE PROCESS CLAIM.
UM, NO PERSON SHALL BE DEPRIVED OF LIFE, LIBERTY, OR PROPERTY WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF THE LAW, AND THEN ALSO EQUAL PROTECTION.
UM, THE 14TH AMENDMENT STATES THAT NO PERSON SHALL DENY ANY PERSON WITHIN ITS JURISDICTION EQUAL PROTECTION OF THE LAWS.
AND SO THAT APPLIES TO THE CITY.
WE CAN'T TREAT, UH, LIKE, UM, PERSONS, UH, OR LIKE PROPERTY DIFFERENTLY.
UH, WE CAN'T TREAT PEOPLE DIFFERENTLY JUST BECAUSE OF WHO THEY ARE.
UM, AND SO THERE ARE THREE CATEGORIES OF TAKINGS BASED OFF OF THE, THE FIRST ONE HERE.
SO THE TAKINGS CLAIM, THE FIFTH AMENDMENT, UM, THE, THE FIRST ONE IS WHAT YOU WOULD THINK OF MOST FRE FREQUENTLY, THE PHYSICAL OCCUPATION CASES.
AND SO THAT'S WHEN, UM, THE CITY'S GONNA ACTUALLY TAKE THE PROPERTY TO USE IT FOR PUBLIC PURPOSE.
UH, AND SO THAT'S HAPPENED BEFORE
[02:00:01]
FOR THE, NOT THE, THE GARAGE PARKING LOT, CAUSE THOSE WERE JUST PURCHASED, BUT FOR THE UPTOWN PARKING LOT, UH, THAT WAS A CONDEMNATION CASE.UM, THE CITY'S ALSO DONE A FEW CONDEMNATION CASES FOR, UH, UH, STORM WATER, UH, EASEMENTS OR STORMWATER DRAINAGE FACILITIES, UH, WHERE THEY'VE NEEDED TO EXPAND IT.
AND THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY OWNERS WEREN'T WILLING TO GIVE UP THE PROPERTY.
AND SO THE CITY'S HAD A FEW OF THOSE.
AND THEN MOST RECENTLY, THE FOREST ROAD CONNECTION PROJECT.
SO, UH, THAT WAS REQUIRED PROPERTY FROM 11 DIFFERENT PROPERTY OWNERS, UH, SIX OF WHOM THE CITY WAS ABLE TO NEGOTIATE, UH, SALEM PURCHASE OF THE NEEDED PROPERTY OR EASEMENTS, UH, FIVE OF WHOM, UM, THE CITY AND THE PROPERTY OWNERS WERE NOT ABLE TO AGREE ON A PURCHASE PRICE, OR IT JUST TOOK TOO LONG.
AND THE CITY WANTED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE PROJECT.
AND SO THE COUNCIL AUTHORIZED CONDEMNATION ON THOSE REMAINING FIVE PROPERTY OWNERS ALL OVER FOR JUST A PORTION OF THE PROPERTY OR AN EASEMENT.
UM, AND SO THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE THINK OF.
NORMALLY WHEN YOU THINK OF A TAKINGS, OKAY, UH, YOU'RE GONNA TAKE THE PROPERTY, UH, BUT THERE'S TWO OTHER ONES.
THERE'S A REGULATORY TAKINGS, UH, WHICH WOULD BE THE IDEA THAT, UM, YOU CAN NO LONGER USE THE PROPERTY AS YOU, AS YOU WANT IT TO MM-HMM.
UM, SO, UM, WHICH IS WHAT ZONING DOES, UM, AND WHICH IS ALLOWED, UH, THROUGH, THROUGH, THROUGH THE CITY'S POLICE POWER.
UM, BUT AT TIMES IT CAN, IT GETS EXCESSIVE.
AND, UM, OR AT LEAST PEOPLE, PROPERTY OWNERS FEEL IT'S EXCESSIVE OF CITIES.
AND SO THEY'LL CHALLENGE THAT, AND IT'LL GO UP TO COURTS WHO WILL, WHO WILL DETERMINE WHAT EXACTLY A TAKING IS, UM, AND HOW MUCH AND WHEN A TAKING HAS OCCURRED.
UH, AND THEN THERE'S ALSO DEDICATIONS AND ACTIONS.
SO AS PART OF A, UM, LAND USE DEVELOPMENT, CITIES CAN REQUIRE CERTAIN THINGS.
SO WE MAY REQUIRE, WE DO REQUIRE, SO IF YOU'RE GONNA DO A NEW COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT ON A MAJOR ROAD, WE MAY REQUIRE A TURN LANE, UM, OR A SIDEWALK, UH, CERTAIN THINGS.
AND IF THERE'S A REASONABLE NEXUS, UH, TO THAT REQUIREMENT, THEN THEY'RE ALLOWED.
IF IT GETS, UM, IF IT'S NOT ROUGHLY PROPORTIONAL TO THE REQUIREMENT OR IT'S NOT REASONABLY, UH, RELATED TO IT, THEN THOSE WOULD BE, UH, THOSE ARE NOT ALLOWED.
UH, SO I'LL GO THROUGH THOSE JUST SO BRIEFLY ON EACH OF THOSE.
UH, THE FIRST ONE, WHAT IS A REGULATORY TAKING? UM, IT'S ANY TIME THE GOVERNMENT RULES INTERFERE WITH ANY USE OF PRIVATE PROPERTY, AND IT CAN BE IN THE ENTIRETY.
SO YOU GET CASES WHERE YOU GET COASTAL COMMISSIONS IS WHERE THERE'S LOTS OF CASES FROM, UM, BOTH ON THE EAST COAST AND WEST COAST.
LUCKILY WE DON'T HAVE A COASTAL COMMISSION, BUT THEY, THEY WILL, FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS, STATE, UH, THAT THE LAND NEEDS TO BE OPEN SPACE.
UM, BECAUSE FLOOD FLOODPLAINS, UH, ENDANGERED SPECIES, UM, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION, WELL, THE OWNERS OF THOSE PROPERTIES OBVIOUSLY AREN'T HAPPY WITH THOSE CUZ THEY INTENDED TO BUILD A HOUSE THERE OR SOMETHING ELSE THERE.
AND SO THERE ENDS UP A LOT OF LITIGATION OUT OF THOSE TYPES OF CASES.
UM, IT'S THE, THE ORIGINAL, UH, CASE, AND I USE THIS JUST KIND OF AS A, TO BE A LITTLE BIT OF A JOKE, BUT IT'S, IT IS, IT'S WHERE IT STARTED.
UM, HERE'S WHAT JUDGE HOLMES SAID.
HE SAID THE GENERAL RULE AT LEAST IS THAT WHILE PROPERTY MAY BE REGULATED TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, IF THE REGULATION GOES TOO FAR, IT'LL BE RECOGNIZED AS A TAKING.
AND SO, BUT IT'S ALWAYS KIND OF A CASE BY CASE BASIS, UH, WHETHER, UH, IT'S A TAKING OR NOT, AND WHETHER IT'S A REGULATORY TAKING OR WHETHER IT'S ALLOWED OR NOT, IT'S GONNA BE BASED ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING EACH INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY AND THE REGULATIONS.
AND SO THAT'S WHY IT CONTINUES TO BE A LITIG, UH, A LITIGATED AREA OF LAW.
SO, UH, HOW FAR IS TOO FAR? WE GOT A COUPLE CASES HERE.
UH, I'LL GO THROUGH 'EM QUICKLY.
UM, ONE OF THEM IS DOLAN, UH, VERSUS THE CITY OF TIGER GUARD, OREGON.
UM, AND IN THERE THE, UM, I'LL JUST READ IT REAL QUICK.
THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION, UH, CONDITIONED APPROVAL OF PETITIONER'S APPLICATION TO EXPAND HER STORE.
SHE HAD A STORE AND SHE WANTED TO EXPAND THE PARKING LOT IN THE STORE.
THEY CONDITIONED THE APPROVAL UPON HER COMPLIANCE WITH DEDICATION OF LAND ONE FOR PUBLIC GREENWAY ALONG THE PANO CREEK TO MINIMIZE FLOODING, AND TWO, FOR PEDESTRIAN BICYCLE PATH INTENDED TO RELIEVE THE TRAFFIC CONGESTION.
UH, AND SO THE COURT FOUND QUESTION WHETHER THOSE WERE TWO WERE REASONABLY RELATED TO THE EXPANSION.
UM, AND THE LOWER COURTS ALL FOUND THAT THEY DID, THAT THEY WERE REASONABLY RELATED, UH, AND THAT THEY WEREN'T SOME TYPE OF UNCONSTITUTIONAL EXACTION FROM THE PROPERTY.
UH, BUT WHEN IT WENT ALL THE WAY UP TO THE, THE CITY OF, UH, OR TO THE SUPREME COURT, THE SUPREME COURT HELD, UM, THAT THE CONS THAT THEY DID CONSTITUTE, UH, UNCONSTITUTIONAL TAKINGS, UH, THAT THEY WEREN'T, UM, UH, CON SUFFICIENTLY CONDITIONED, AND THEY PRIMARILY MADE THE, THE, UM, THE EXACTION FOR THE, UH, RIGHT OF WAY OR THE, THE EASEMENT ALONG THE CREEK IS GONNA BE A PUBLIC EASEMENT.
AND THE COURT HAD AN ISSUE WITH WHY THAT NEEDED TO BE
[02:05:01]
PUBLIC VERSUS A COULD RE MAINTAIN PRIVATE PROPERTY, BUT BE AN EASEMENT FOR, UH, A LESSER TAKING BE, REMAIN HER PRIVATE PROPERTY, BUT HAVE AN EASEMENT FOR RIGHT OF WAY OR FOR DRAINAGE FOR CITY DRAINAGE, BUT NOT BE PUBLIC SO THAT THE PUBLIC COULD JUST WALK ACROSS IT WHENEVER THEY NEEDED TO.UH, AND THEN SIMILARLY FOR THE BIKE PATH, THEY FOUND THAT THERE, WHILE THERE COULD BE A NEXUS, THE CITY HAD IMPROVED, UH, WHY THAT BIKE PATH WAS SPECIFICALLY NEEDED THERE ALONG THE, THAT PROPERTY, UH, VERSUS, UM, ELSEWHERE.
AND THAT WAS BECAUSE IT WAS, IT WAS KIND OF IN THE KIND OF AN ISSUE THE CITY, UH, WILL DEAL WITH, UM, DOING A CREEK WALK.
UM, WHERE ARE YOU GONNA EXACT IT FROM THE FIRST LOCATION WHEN NO ONE ELSE HAS IT, AND WHERE'S IT GONNA GO TO? AND IS THAT A SUFFICIENT, UM, SUFFICIENT NEED? AND SO, UH, THAT'S WHY PRIMARILY WROTE THAT DOWN.
AND THAT'S WHY PRIMARILY THE CITY'S WORKED WITH, UM, DEVELOPERS, UH, AND, AND, AND ENCOURAGING IT.
AND GENERALLY SOME OF THE PLANS HAVE IT.
UM, AND SO WE'LL, WE'LL SEE WHERE THAT EVER GOES.
SO ONE OF THE PRINCIPLE PURPOSES OF THE TAKINGS CLAUSE IS TO BAR GOVERNMENT FROM FORCING SOME PEOPLE ALONE TO BEAR PUBLIC BURDENS, WHICH IN ALL FAIRNESS AND JUSTICE SHOULD BE BORN BY THE PUBLIC AS A WHOLE.
UM, AND SO IT'S ONE THING TO MAYBE REQUIRE THEM TO DEDICATE SOME LAND AND THE CITY COULD BUILD THE, THE, THE PATHWAY.
UH, IT'S ANOTHER THING TO MAKE THEM NOT ONLY GIVE THE LAND TO THE CITY, ALSO BUILD IT.
UM, AND SO THERE'S, THERE'S QUESTIONS THERE AND THERE'S ALWAYS QUESTIONS, UM, ABOUT WHAT TYPE OF EXACTIONS, UM, ARE ALLOWED, UH, BECAUSE OF, BECAUSE OF DOLAN AND ALSO BECAUSE OF NOLAN.
UH, WHICH WAS ANOTHER CASE, UM, WHICH, UH, I THINK I MENTIONED IT.
SO THERE'S BOTH THE ESSENTIAL NEXUS.
IT NEEDS TO BE, UH, UH, A CON A DIRECT CONNECTION BETWEEN THE INTEREST THAT THE STATE HAS AND THE CONDITION THAT THEY'RE REQUIRING.
AND THEN IT HAS TO BE ROUGHLY PROPORTIONAL, UH, BETWEEN THE DEDICATION AND THE, THE DEVELOPMENT'S IMPACT.
SO YOU HAVE TO MEET BOTH OF THOSE PARTS, UM, FROM THOSE TWO DIFFERENT CASES THAT DEVELOPED THOSE TWO DIFFERENT TESTS.
UH, AND THEN THIS WAS CODIFIED INTO STATE LAW, UH, BY ARS 9500.13, WHICH SPECIFICALLY SAYS THAT CITIES HAVE TO FOLLOW DOLAN, NOLAN AND LUCAS, UM, WHICH IS ONE OF THE COASTAL COUNCIL CASES.
AND THEN ALSO THE, UH, FIRST ENGLISH EVANGELICAL CHURCH VERSUS, UH, COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES.
AND THAT ONE WAS ABOUT A TEMPORARY TAKING.
I HAD THAT ON A SLIDE EARLIER THAT SOMETIMES THE TAKING MAY ONLY BE FOR A SPECIAL EVENT OR A USE LIKE THAT.
AND, AND IN THE PAST, UH, SOME CITIES WOULD TAKE PROPERTY TEMPORARILY AND SAY, WELL, WE DON'T HAVE TO PAY YOU ANYTHING FOR IT.
CAUSE IT'S ONLY TEMPORARY USE.
I DON'T, YOU KNOW,
AND, UM, THE, UH, SUPREME COURT AGREED WITH THE CHURCH SAYING THAT, UH, UH, TEMPORARY USES ARE ALSO, UM, TAKINGS, EVEN IF IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW TEMPORARY, IT MAY LESSEN THE AMOUNT YOU NEED TO PAY FOR THE TAKING, UH, BUT IT'S STILL A TAKING.
UM, THERE'S ANOTHER CASE, UM, AND THERE'S A LOT.
UM, BUT THIS, THIS WAS AN INTERESTING ONE.
CITY OF MONTEREY VERSUS DELMONTE DUNES AT MONTEREY.
AND IT BEGINNING IN THE EIGHTIES, AND IT TOOK, UM, THE EARLY EIGHTIES, AND IT WASN'T UNTIL THE, IT TOOK ABOUT A DECADE.
UM, BUT IT TURNS OUT, UM, SO THE, AND THIS WAS A CASE, I MEAN, TALK ABOUT, WE TRY TO AVOID BAD FACTS ON CASES.
UH, THIS DEVELOPER HERE TOOK LIKE, I THINK IT WAS LIKE SEVEN OR EIGHT DIFFERENT PLANS TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
AND EACH TIME THE PLAN COMMISSION SAID, WELL, 240 HOMES IS TOO MUCH, BUT IF YOU DID ONE, YOU KNOW, 90, MAYBE THAT WOULD BE OKAY.
SO THEY CAME BACK WITH ONE 90, OH, THAT'S TOO MUCH.
WE WANT THESE FEW OTHER THINGS.
AND IT KEPT GETTING SMALLER AND SMALLER, AND THEY KEPT GIVING MORE AND MORE.
AND EVENTUALLY THE, UM, THEY DENIED IT EVEN AFTER HE, THEY HAD CHANGED IT SEVEN DIFFERENT TIMES.
AND SO, UH, YOU TALK ABOUT, UH, BAD FACTS, UH, MAKE BAD LAW.
UM, THIS IS, THIS WAS ONE OF THOSE, BUT ONE OF THE QUESTIONS, UM, WAS, UH, WHETHER OR NOT THE JURY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DECIDE IF THE, UM, WHETHER TAKINGS CLAIMS INCLUDES BOTH ISSUES OF LIABILITY AND DAMAGES.
AND, UH, AND SO THE CITY OF MONTEREY WAS CHALLENGING WHETHER JURIES HAD EVEN THE RIGHT TO WEIGH IN, WEIGH IN ON THIS, AND WHETHER IT WAS PURELY A, A LEGAL QUESTION, BUT THE COURT, UH, FOUND THAT JURIES COULD, UH, BE USED IN THAT.
AND HERE'S A, OH, MAYBE I DIDN'T INCLUDE IT.
UM, WELL, I MEAN, THERE, THERE ARE SOME GOOD, GOOD QUOTES FROM THE CASE.
UH, I, I'LL INCLUDE IT IN, IN THE HANDOUT THAT I HAVE FOR, FOR P AND Z, UM, SUBSTANTIVE DUE PROCESS CLAIMS, UH, SIMILAR TO THE TAKINGS, BUT IT'S FROM THE, THE, UH, FIFTH AMENDMENT.
AGAIN, NO PERSON SHALL BE DEPRIVED OF LIFE, LIBERTY, OR PROPERTY WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF LAW.
UM, AND THEN TO KIND OF GET DOWN TO THE GIST OF THIS, THE REAL QUESTION IS, UH, HOW DOES P AND Z COMMISSION GO WRONG SOMETIMES IN, IN DETERMINING
[02:10:01]
THESE, UM, IN MAKING ITS DECISIONS AND HOW ARE, HOW ARE THEY MOST LIKELY OVERTURNED ON APPEAL? AND THERE'S THREE WAYS THAT THEY'RE MOST LIKELY OVERTURNED ON APPEAL.UM, ONLY ONE OF WHICH WOULD REALLY BE P AND Z'S FOLLOW.
THE FIRST ONE IS THE DECISION IS INADEQUATELY SUPPORTED BY THEIR RECORD.
UM, AND SO THAT'S GENERALLY IT'S P AND Z'S STAFF OR, UH, UH, STAFF, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT STAFF THAT'S CHARGED WITH DEVELOPING THE RECORD AND MAKING SURE THAT THERE'S SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE IN THE RECORD TO SUPPORT P AND Z'S DECISION.
AND SO, P AND Z'S STAFF OR THE, UH, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT STAFF DOES THAT THROUGH THEIR, THEIR STAFF REPORT, UM, GOING THROUGH ALL THE FINDINGS THAT APPROVAL CRITERIA AND LISTING WHY THEY THINK THE PROJECT SHOULD BE APPROVED.
UM, UH, SOMETIMES IF RECORDS ARE LOST, UM, OR IF, UH, P AND Z COMMISSION MADE A, A RECOMMENDATION THAT WAS COMPLETELY UNSUPPORTED BY THE RECORD, THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO, TO SHOW WHY THAT COULD BE A, A REASON FOR AN APPEAL AND AN, UH, THE DECISION COULD BE OVERTURNED.
SECOND, UM, THIS IS WHEN THE DECISION IS IRRATIONAL, NO REASONABLE BASIS IN LAW.
SO, AND THE, THE, IN ARIZONA, THE, THE TERM IS ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS.
SO, UH, VINCENT MCGEE, UH, APPEALED THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION ON THE WATER TANK CASE, UH, CLAIMED THAT THE DECISION WAS ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS.
THAT'S THE STANDARD, UH, TO APPEAL IT FROM THE CITY COUNCIL UP TO THE, UH, SUPERIOR COURT, UM, ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS.
CAPRICIOUS IS JUST, THAT HAS TO BE BOTH ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS.
SO COMPLETELY, IT NEEDS TO HAVE BASICALLY NO BASIS.
IF THERE'S ANY BASIS FOR IT, THEN A COURT SHOULDN'T BE OVERTURNING IT.
SO THEY SHOULD BE FAIRLY RARE.
UH, BUT PE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSIONS GET THEMSELVES IN TROUBLE SOMETIMES BY, UH, MAKING DECISIONS THAT'S NOT SUPPORTED, YOU KNOW, ANYWHERE IN THE LAW OR IN THE FACTS, JUST BECAUSE THEY MAY NOT LIKE A PROJECT OR, OR WHO KNOWS WHAT ELSE.
UH, AND THEN THE LAST ONE WOULD BE IF THE DECISION IS OUTSIDE THE LIMITS OF THE AUTHORITY OF THE PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION.
SO IF YOU DECIDED TO, UH, DENY, UM, AN APPLICATION THAT WAS ONLY THERE FOR REVIEW FOR, YOU KNOW, RECOMMENDATION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, UM, AND SO AGAIN, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT STAFF'S GONNA PRESENT, PREVENT FROM HAPPENING.
UH, IT WOULD'VE NEVER BE BROUGHT TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION FOR THAT TYPE OF DECISION.
AND THERE ARE CASES, UH, WHERE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSIONS OR CITY COUNCILS OR COUNTIES OR STATES, UM, MAKE DECISIONS.
UH, DIFFERENT COMMISSIONS MAKE DECISIONS THAT ARE OUTSIDE THEIR DELEGATED AUTHORITY.
AND SO THAT CAN BE, THAT CAN BE A BASIS FOR AN APPEAL.
UH, IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THERE ARE 12, UH, CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL, AND THAT'S LDC 8.3 POINT E FIVE.
AND SO YOU'LL SEE THIS ON NEARLY EVERYTHING THAT COMES, UH, TO PLAN A AND ZONING COMMISSION BECAUSE IT'S WHAT'S USED FOR ALL C U P, UM, DEVELOPMENT REVIEW SUBDIVISION AND REZONING APPLICATIONS.
AND SO I WON'T GO THROUGH ALL 12.
THEY'RE THERE FOR YOUR REVIEW.
THE FIRST ONE'S REALLY JUST A KIND OF A CATCHALL THAT YOU NEED TO FOLLOW.
THE, THE, THE SUBSEQUENT ONES.
UM, NOT ALL OF THESE APPLY EVERY TIME.
SO PRIOR APPROVALS, OFTEN THERE ARE NO PRIOR APPROVALS.
UM, SO IN THIS CASE, SO FOR EXAMPLE, THE ONE WE JUST HAD WITH THE CITY, THERE WAS A PRIOR APPROVAL FOR THE C P.
AND SO ONE OF THE BASIS FOR DENYING THAT THE NEW C P COULD HAVE BEEN, UM, THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, THE CITY COMPLETELY DISREGARDED THE CURRENT C P, AND THERE'S ALL THE TYPES OF, OF ISSUES OR PROBLEMS. THAT COULD HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE REASONS, BUT OFTEN YOU WILL FIND THAT THERE ARE NO PRIOR APPROVALS, UM, ON PROJECTS COMING TO P AND Z, UH, CONSISTENCY WITH THE SEDONA COMMUNITY PLAN AND OTHER APPLICABLE PLANS.
UH, THAT ONE'S GONNA ALWAYS BE PRESENT.
UH, COMPLIANCE WITH THE CODE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE PRESENT.
UM, MINIMIZE THE IMPACT ON SURROUNDING PROPERTY OWNERS IS GOING TO ALWAYS BE PRESENT.
CONSISTENT WITH INTERGOVERNMENT AGREEMENTS GENERALLY WON'T BE AN ISSUE.
THERE'S GENERALLY NOT GONNA BE AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL, AN IGA THAT, THAT APPLIES TO THE, THE SUBDIVISION OR THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW MINIMIZES ADVERSE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS WILL ALWAYS BE PRESENT.
FISCAL IMPACTS WILL ALWAYS BE PRESENT, BUT GENERALLY THE CITY'S NOT A PARTNER OR INVOLVED IN THESE TYPES OF, MOST OF THE DEVELOPMENTS THAT COME.
AND SO IT'S GONNA BE NON-APPLICABLE.
UM, COMPLIANCE WITH UTILITY SERVICE AND IMPROVEMENT STANDARDS WILL GENERALLY ALWAYS BE PART OF THOSE FINDINGS.
UM, SAME WITH ADEQUATE ROAD SYSTEMS. UH, PUBLIC SERVICE FACILITIES, UH, UH, WE WILL JUST DEPEND ON THAT.
AND THEN RATIONAL PHASING PLAN WILL ALSO JUST DEPEND ON WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS, UH, PHASING IN THE PROJECT OR NOT.
SOME PROJECTS ARE PHASED AND SOME ARE NOT.
UH, YOU WILL FIND THAT GENERALLY EVERYTHING THAT COMES TO PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION IS, UM, STAFF'S RECOMMENDING APPROVAL.
AND THAT'S BECAUSE, WOULD BE VERY BRAVE, A DEVELOPER TO COME TO PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, UH, SEEKING APPROVAL WHEN PLA, WHEN THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT STAFF SAYS, UH, IT DOESN'T MEET A VARIETY OF REQUIREMENTS
[02:15:01]
AND IT'S RECOMMENDED A DENIAL, UM, BUT IT'S THEIR RIGHT AND THEY COULD COME TO P AND Z ANYWAYS, UM, WITH, UH, STAFF RECOMMENDATION OF DENIAL, UH, AND PLANNING AND ZONING WOULD BE THE ONE TO MAKE THE DECISION.SO I THINK, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THAT'S EVER HAPPENED.
UM, IT COULD HAPPEN, BUT, UM, IT CERTAINLY WON'T EVER HAPPEN.
SO YOU ARE GENERALLY ALWAYS GONNA FIND MOTIONS FOR APPROVAL ALREADY LISTED OUT IN THE STAFF REPORT.
UH, AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THE MOTION FOR APPROVAL IS DETAILED.
IT INCORPORATES THIS ENTIRE STAFF REPORT, UM, AND IT MENTIONS THE SPECIFIC L E C SECTIONS THAT IT COMPLIES WITH, WHICH INCLUDE ALL 12 OF THOSE APPROVAL CRITERIA.
UH, ALTERNATIVELY, THE MOTION FOR DENIAL, UH, YOU'LL FIND IS, IS SHORT AND HAS ALL THE FILL IN BLANKS, UM, THAT, THAT THE P Z COMMISSION WOULD NEED TO DO, UM, IN ORDER TO, UM, TO DENY, UH, ANY TYPE OF APPLICATION.
UH, AND SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S, UH, WOULD GENERALLY BE, UH, IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD NEED TO BE FILLED OUT.
UH, STAFF IS WILLING TO HELP OUT WITH IF THERE'S ANY CONCERNS WITH ANY PROJECT, UH, AND HELP IDENTIFY THOSE CONCERNS.
SOME OF THE 12 APPROVAL CRITERIA, REASONABLE MIND, REASONABLE MINDS CAN DIFFER ON WHETHER IT'S MET OR NOT MET.
UH, STAFF'S WELCOME TO THAT TYPE OF DISCUSSION, UH, WITH PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSIONERS.
SO, UM, IN SUMMARY, UH, WE NEED TO ALWAYS MAKE SURE THERE'S A GOOD RECORD, SPECIFICALLY IF YOU'RE, YOU'RE GONNA DENY A PROJECT.
THERE NEEDS TO BE, UM, THE REASON NEEDS TO BE STATED ON THE RECORD.
UM, YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE YOUR DECISIONS ARE LOGICAL AND RATIONAL AND NOT JUST MADE BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE THE PROJECT OR, UH, YOUR NEIGHBORS TOLD YOU TO VOTE AGAINST IT.
UM, I'M JUST, I'M BEING A LITTLE FACETIOUS.
I KNOW THAT THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN.
BUT, UM, THAT'S WHERE PLANNING AND ZONING COM CONDITIONS DO GET APPEALED AND, AND OVERTURNED.
UM, AND THEN LASTLY, YOU NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT ALTHOUGH WE WOULD LOVE TO, UM, REQUIRE PROPERTY OWNERS TO MEET EVERY CONDITION OF APPROVAL, UM, AND, AND, AND PUT IN MORE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL, WE CAN'T EXACT, UH, THERE ARE THESE ILLEGAL TAKINGS AND EXACTIONS, UM, AND THE, WE CAN ONLY EXACT FROM A PROPERTY OWNER, UH, THINGS THAT ARE, HAVE A REASONABLE, UH, NEXUS AND A ROUGH PROPORTIONALITY TO THE CITY'S REQUIREMENTS.
UH, SO ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS? COULD YOU EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE IF THERE IS ONE BETWEEN, UM, CONDEMNATION AND IMMINENT DOMAIN? YEAH, SO THERE, THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE.
SO THE, THE STATE LAW USES EMINENT DOMAIN AS THE, THE WORD THEY USE AND THE PHRASE THEY USE, UM, CONDEMNATION IS SYNONYMOUS.
IT'S JUST A DIFFERENT WAY TO SAY THIS, THE SAME THING, BUT, SO THAT PROCESS DOES REQUIRE COMPENSATION, IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT.
SO, SO FOR EXAMPLE, THE CITY'S FIVE, UH, EMINENT DOMAIN CASES.
SO IT'S A, IT'S AN, IT'S A COMPLAINT IN EMINENT DOMAIN.
THAT'S WHAT'S ALLOWED PER STATE LAW.
UH, COLLOQUIALLY IT'S REFERRED TO AS CONDEMNATION.
UM, AND SO THOSE FIVE CASES ARE IN VARIOUS STAGES OF MEDIATION AND SETTLEMENT DISCUSSIONS.
AND ULTIMATELY IT WOULD GO TO, UH, A JURY IF, UH, IF MEDIATION AND SETTLEMENT DOESN'T WORK, IT'D GO TO A JURY TO DECIDE WHAT JUST COMPENSATION WOULD BE FOR THE PROPERTY.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THERE'S NO QUESTIONS.
NOW I DO HAVE, UH, A LITTLE, UH, SPECIFIC LEGAL ADVICE, UH, FOR THE COMMISSION IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO RECEIVE THAT.
ON, ON, UM, BOTH THE, UH, ON THE APPLICABLE CRITERIA, I GUESS IS THE NAME AND THE OPEN MEETING LAW.
SO, UM, THANK YOU FOR THAT PRESENTATION, KURT.
AND I'LL JUST READ THIS UPON A PUBLIC MAJORITY VOTE OF THE MEMBERS CONSTITUTING QUO PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MAY HOLD AN EXECUTIVE SESSION THAT IS NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC TO CONSULT WITH LEGAL COUNSEL FOR ADVICE ON THE TRAINING MATTERS LISTED ON THIS AGENDA PER ARS SECTION 38 DASH 4 31 0.03 A THREE.
SO, UM, IS THERE A CONSENSUS AND A VOTE OF ALL OF US TO, UM, CONVENE TO AN EXECUTIVE SESSION? SO, SO SAY AYE.
MADAM CHAIR IS, DO I NEED A MOTION? WERE YOU MOTION? YEAH.
WERE YOU MAKING THE MOTION THEN? I'LL MAKE THE MOTION.
MOTION PASSES FIVE ZERO AND WE'LL, UM, SHARE, GO TO ANOTHER ROOM.
I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT, UM, COMMISSIONER WHEEL, WHO IS UM, ATTENDING VIRTUALLY WILL NEED TO MUTE HER AUDIO AND VIDEO AND WE WILL BRING HER IN ON
[02:20:01]
A PHONE CALL.AND ARE WE EXITING THROUGH HERE? YES.
COME BACK FROM OUR EXECUTIVE SESSION MEETING AND
[9. FUTURE MEETING DATES AND AGENDA ITEMS]
GO ON TO, UH, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER NINE, FUTURE MEETING DATES AND AGENDA ITEMS. WE CURRENTLY HAVE NOTHING ON ANY OF THE UPCOMING AGENDAS.I THINK SO THE, THE 17TH AND THE, WHAT WAS THE, FEBRUARY 7TH? SEVENTH.
WE ARE PAST THE NOTICING DEADLINES.
I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING RIGHT NOW THAT'S READY.
WE HAVE A COUPLE THINGS THAT WERE RESUBMITTED RECENTLY.
I DOUBT THEY'LL BE READY FOR THAT FIRST MEETING IN FEBRUARY.
UM, BUT I DON'T, BUT WE'RE NOT PAST THE DEADLINE FOR THAT YET.
UM, SO WE WOULD CONFIRM, BUT SECOND MEETING IN FEBRUARY, FIRST MEETING IN MARCH, WE'LL LIKELY HAVE A COUPLE, COUPLE ITEMS. OKAY.
UM, IF, JUST FOR THE RECORD, I'M NOT HERE THE FIRST ONE IN MARCH.
AND SO IF THERE'S ANY OTHER ABSENCES, JUST LET ME KNOW, UM, SO THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE WE HAVE A QUO.
NOW WITHOUT OBJECTION, I'LL ADJOURN THIS MEETING AT, UH, 7 46.