* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.
          [00:00:02]
          OKAY. 
          [Special City Council On Wednesday, January 25, 2023.]
GOOD AFTERNOON, UH, FOLKS. 
          WELCOME TO OUR CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION. 
          UM, THIS MEETING IS NOW CALLED TO ORDER. 
          PLEASE JOIN ME IN THE PLEDGE. 
          I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVIDUAL WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. 
          JOIN ME, JOIN ME PLEASE IN A MOMENT OF SILENCE. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 
          MADAM CLERK, WOULD YOU DO THE ROLL CALL, PLEASE? MAYOR JALO. 
          HERE. 
          VICE MAYOR PLU. 
          HERE. 
          COUNSELOR DUNN. 
          SHE'S EXCUSED TODAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          COUNSELOR FOLTZ. 
          HERE. 
          COUNSELOR FURMAN. 
          PRESENT. 
          COUNSELOR KINSELLA. 
          HERE. 
          COUNSELOR WILLIAMSON. 
          HERE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          OKAY. 
          WE HAVE, UM, SPECIAL BUSINESS TODAY, AB 29 0 5, PUBLIC HEARING DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING AN APPEAL OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION'S. 
          NOVEMBER 15TH, 2022. 
          DENIAL OF A DEVELOPMENT REVIEW APPLICATION FOR THE ARABELLA SPA, LOCATED AT 95 SOBAR LANE. 
          LANE PZ 21 DASH 0 0 0 9 49, UH, AND A P P E 22 DASH 0 0 0 3. 
          AND THIS IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, SO I'M GONNA GO OVER SOME OF THE RULES AND HOW THIS WILL, UH, BE. 
          UH, TODAY THE APPEAL PROCESS IS A PROCEDURE ON AN APPEAL OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION DECISION IS GOVERNED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. 
          RULES OF PROCEDURE RULE THREE, Q4 FOR THIS SPECIAL HEARING. 
          THE PROCEDURE WILL BE AS FOLLOWS BY THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT STAFF WILL PRESENT THE ARBELLA SPA APPLICATION STAFF FINDINGS AND SUMMARIZE THE PLANNING AND DOING COMMISSION DECISION WITHIN 10 MINUTES, THE APPEALING PARTY REPRESENTED BY WHITNEY MORRIS PLC WILL PRESENT THEIR POSITION. 
          AGAIN, 10 MINUTES, THERE'LL BE PUBLIC COMMENT, PERIOD, THREE MINUTES OF EACH, UH, SPEAKER, UH, REBUTTAL BY EITHER PARTY FOR FIVE MINUTES. 
          COUNSEL WILL DISCUSS AND DELIBERATE MAY ASK QUESTIONS AND WILL REACH A DECISION ON APPEAL. 
          OKAY, CARRIE, I THINK YOU'RE UP. 
          CAN I CLARIFY? WOULD YOU SURE. 
          IF WE HAVE QUESTIONS FOR CARRIE, DO WE ASK THEM WHEN SHE'S DONE OR DO WE WAIT UNTIL BOTH PRESENTATIONS ARE MADE? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. 
          I WOULD THINK WE COULD DO IT WHEN CARRIE'S DONE WITH HER PRESENTATION, KURT. 
          YEAH, IT'S, IT'S UP TO COUNSEL AND, AND PERHAPS THE PRESENTER, WHICH, IF THEY HAVE A PRE PREFERENCE. 
          RIGHT. 
          WELL, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT TAKING AWAY FROM HER 10 MINUTES. 
          YEAH. 
          AND SO GENERALLY THE COMMENTS ARE HELD TOWARDS THE END IF THEY'RE PRESSED FOR TIME. 
          UM, ALSO IF COUNCIL RECALLS, IF EITHER PARTIES REQUESTED MORE TIME IN THE PAST, COUNCIL HAS GENERALLY BEEN OPEN TO GIVING THEM MORE TIME. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          OKAY. 
          CARRIE, WELCOME. 
          GOOD TO SEE YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU MAYOR AND VICE MAYOR AND MEMBERS OF COUNCIL. 
          UM, AS PART OF YOUR PACKET FOR THIS, UM, HEARING YOU WERE PROVIDED WITH, UM, A LOT OF INFORMATION. 
          I DON'T WANT TO BE REDUNDANT, SO ABSOLUTELY OPEN FOR QUESTIONS, BUT I'M JUST GONNA GIVE A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF THE PROJECT AND, UM, KIND OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS AND DECISIONS THAT GOT US TO THIS POINT. 
          SO THIS PROJECT IS AT 95 SAN BART LANE, WHICH IS JUST EAST OF THE EXISTING ARABELLA, UH, HOTEL. 
          UM, THE OWNER IS PINE REALTY AND THE AGENT AND THE APPLICANT FOR THIS PROJECT IS WILLIAM IRWIN. 
          UM, THE SITE IS JUST OVER OR A LITTLE BIT OVER FIVE ACRES. 
          AND IT IS DESIGNATED PLANNED AREA IN THE, SO BART LANE PLANNED AREA IN THE COMMUNITY PLAN AND IS ZONED COMMERCIAL. 
          THE LOT IS CURRENTLY VACANT AND THE APPLICATION IS FOR APPROXIMATELY 20,000 SQUARE FEET OF, UM, SPA IN FOUR SEPARATE BUILDINGS. 
          ONE OF, THERE'S ONE LARGE BUILDING ABOUT 16 TO 17,000 SQUARE FEET, AND THEN THREE OTHER SMALLER BUILDINGS. 
          UM, THIS SITE HAS HAD TWO PREVIOUS, PREVIOUS APPLICATIONS, UM, IN 2003 
          [00:05:01]
AND 2008. 
          FOR THE 2003 APPLICATION WAS FOR APARTMENTS THAT WERE TIMESHARES AS WELL. 
          UM, AND THAT PROJECT WAS WITHDRAWN TO ANY PUBLIC HEARING, SO NO DECISION WAS MADE ON THAT PROJECT. 
          AND THEN IN 2008 THERE WAS A SUBDIVISION IN DEVELOPMENT REVIEW FOR CONDOS AND RETAIL THAT WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS AND DID RECEIVE APPROVALS, BUT WAS NOT, UM, THE FINAL PLAT, WHICH IS THE KIND OF FINAL STEP OF THE SUBDIVISION PROCESS, WAS NOT COMPLETED. 
          SO ALL OF THOSE APPROVALS HAVE EXPIRED. 
          UM, A VICINITY MAP SHOWING THE LOCATION OF THE PROPERTY. 
          UM, HERE, THIS AGAIN, IS THE ARABELLA HOTEL. 
          UM, YOU HAVE THE CANYON DRIVE ROUNDABOUT DOWN HERE, UM, AND THEN COCONINO NATIONAL FOREST AND IS TO THE EAST OF THIS PROJECT SITE. 
          AND THAT DIDN'T WORK. 
          OKAY. 
          OOPS. 
          UM, AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE AERIAL, THERE IS A, UM, THE, THE SITE IS CURRENTLY VACANT. 
          THERE IS A SMALL TRAILHEAD PARKING AREA THAT IS THERE, UM, BASED ON AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY AND THE PROPERTY OWNER. 
          UM, THAT AGREEMENT IS NOT SPECIFIC AND THEN IS NOT IN PERPETUITY. 
          SO THERE'S NO, UM, IF THEY DECIDE TO END THAT AGREEMENT, UM, THERE'S REALLY NO REPERCUSSIONS. 
          THE CITY HAS, IT'S A KIND OF A MONTH TO MONTH AGREEMENT. 
          I NEED TO CLICK. 
          UM, THIS IS A, A SITE PLAN OF THE, UM, SITE NORTH IS TO THE RIGHT ON THIS. 
          SO FROM THE ORIENTATION YOU HAD ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDES, TILT YOUR HEAD TO THE RIGHT. 
          UM, SO YOU HAVE SOBAR LANE COMING IN HERE, UM, WITH THE PARKING AREAS ON EITHER SIDE OF, SO BART LANE. 
          SO BART LANE AT THIS POINT IS A PRIVATE DRIVE. 
          YOU HAVE THE MAIN BUILDING HERE WITH THE SMALLER BUILDINGS, UM, KIND OF ON THE OTHER, AND KIND OF THIS IS AT THE TOP OF THE NULL COMING DOWN. 
          SO THE LARGE BUILDING IS AT THE LOW END OF THE SITE WITH THE OTHER SMALLER BUILDINGS, I'M KIND OF GOING UP THE HILL. 
          UM, THIS IS THE ELEVATION PROPOSAL OF THE, UM, THE MAIN BUILDING OF THE SPA. 
          SO YOU CAN SEE THAT FROM THE PARKING LOT SIDE. 
          IT'S A TWO-STORY BUILDING FROM THE BACKSIDE. 
          IT WOULD BE A ONE-STORY BUILDING. 
          IT'S KIND OF SET INTO THE HILLSIDE. 
          AND THEN THIS IS KIND OF THE, THE BUILDING AT THE TOP OF THE HILL. 
          THE OTHER TWO SMALLER BUILDINGS I DON'T HAVE ON HERE, BUT ARE IN GENERALLY THE SAME STYLE. 
          UM, THE, THE REVIEW THAT STAFF DID LOOKED AT LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE COMPLIANCE FOR HEIGHT, DENSITY, SETBACKS, GRADY AND DRAINAGE ACCESS, PARKING, LANDSCAPING SITE, AND BUILDING DESIGN LIGHTING AND SIGNS. 
          UM, THE PROJECT THAT WENT TO PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION DID SHOW ONE OF THE DIRECTIONAL SIGNS AT FOUR FEET WHERE THREE FEET IS PERMITTED. 
          THAT HEIGHT WOULD BE ALLOWED THROUGH A MASTER SIGN PLAN, BUT THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED TO LOWER THAT TO THE THREE FOOT THAT THE CODE WOULD SAY. 
          UM, THE STAFF'S EVALUATION ALSO RE UM, EVALUATED THE PROJECT FOR, UM, COMPLIANCE WITH THE REQUIRED FINDINGS FOR DEVELOPMENT REVIEW APPLICATION. 
          AGAIN, THOSE WERE ALL PROVIDED IN DETAIL TO YOU, SO I'M HAPPY TO ADDRESS ANY OF THOSE IN PARTICULAR, IF YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THOSE. 
          REGARDING THE COMMUNITY PLAN, THIS IS PART OF A PLANNED AREA THAT TALKS ABOUT, UM, PEDESTRIAN IMPROVEMENTS AND BUFFERS TO THE NATIONAL FOREST AND NOT WANTING TO BUILD RIGHT UP TO THAT BOUNDARY. 
          AND SO WE LOOKED AT HOW THIS PROJECT, UH, ADDRESSES THOSE COMMUNITY PLAN GOALS AS WELL. 
          A COUPLE CONDITIONS THAT, UM, THE STA STAFF RECOMMENDED ON THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION THAT WERE OUTSIDE OF THE STANDARD DEVELOPMENT REVIEW APPLICATIONS WERE REGARDING TRAFFIC. 
          UM, AT THE TIME THAT WE WENT THROUGH THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION PROCESS, ADOT HAD NOT COMPLETED THEIR REVIEW OF THE TRAFFIC STUDY. 
          SINCE THIS PROJECT IS NOT DIRECTLY ON STATE ROUTE 1 79, WHICH IS WHERE THE CONCERNING INTERSECTION COULD, YOU KNOW, WOULD BE, UM, ANY COMMENTS OR CHANGES. 
          THAT INTERSECTION WOULD NOT ALTER THE ACTUAL SITE PLAN. 
          BUT WE DID ADD A CONDITION THAT THOSE COMMENTS MUST BE PROVIDED PRIOR TO BUILDING PERMIT ISSUANCE, AND THE APPLICANT WOULD NEED TO WORK WITH STAFF TO DO ANY INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS THAT WERE RECOMMENDED IN THAT FINAL PLAN. 
          AND THEN PARKING THERE, THERE WERE SOME PROPOSED PARKING REDUCTIONS BASED ON THE SHARED USE WITH THE ARABELLE HOTEL, THEN BOTH SITES BEING UNDER THE SAME OWNERSHIP. 
          UM, THOSE TYPES OF PARKING AGREEMENTS, THE CODE WOULD REQUIRE A, UM, A PARKING AGREEMENT TO BE ENTERED INTO BY THE TWO PROPERTY OWNERS TO ENSURE THAT THAT SHARED PARKING GOES FORWARD IN PERPETUITY. 
          AND WE WOULD, UM, THE CONDITION WAS THAT THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO BE DONE PRIOR TO ISSUANCE OF BUILDING PERMITS AS WELL. 
          SO THOSE ARE KIND OF THE TWO NON-STANDARD CONDITIONS THAT STAFF RECOMMENDED FOR THE PROJECT. 
          OH, AND THEN FINALLY, PUBLIC INPUT. 
          THE APPLICANT WENT THROUGH THEIR CITIZEN PARTICIPATION STAFFED, DID ALL OF THE PUBLIC NOTICING. 
          UM, ALL OF THE COMMENTS WE HAVE RECEIVED WERE PROVIDED TO COUNSEL. 
          THERE 
          [00:10:01]
WERE A NUMBER OF COMMENTS THAT WERE PROVIDED IN THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION PACKET. 
          ANY COMMENTS THAT WE GOT BETWEEN THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING AND DISTRIBUTING YOUR PACKET LAST WEEK WERE INCLUDED IN YOUR AGENDA BILL PACKET. 
          AND WE GOT A COUPLE IN THE LAST WEEK THAT WERE SENT OUT TO YOU LAST NIGHT. 
          SO YOU HAVE RECEIVED EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE GOTTEN. 
          SO AS YOU SEE IN, OR AS YOU SAW IN THE STAFF, UM, STAFF REPORT FOR THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, HEARING STAFF DID RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THIS PROJECT, UM, AT THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION. 
          AND ON NOVEMBER 15TH, THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION DID HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING, UH, MUCH AS YOU WERE DOING TONIGHT. 
          THE, THERE WAS A MOTION MADE FOR APPROVAL OF THE PROJECT THAT RESULTED IN A THREE TO THREE VOTE BY THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION'S, RULES AND PROCEDURES, A THREE TO THREE VOTE FOR ON A MOTION FOR APPROVAL. 
          UM, THAT MOTION DOES NOT CARRY. 
          SO THAT RESULTS IN AN AUTOMATIC DENIAL OF THE PROJECT. 
          SO THE THREE COMMISSIONERS WHO VOTED IN FAVOR OF THE PROJECT DID ADOPT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS AS FINDINGS AS THEIR OWN. 
          AND THEN THE THREE COMMISSIONERS WHO VOTED AGAINST THE PROJECT HAD, UM, PROVIDED THE FOLLOWING REASONS. 
          THEY, THERE WAS A BELIEF THAT THE WATER USAGE WAS TOO HIGH AND THE CLIMATE ACTION PLAN WAS NOT BEING IMPLEMENTED. 
          THERE WAS CONCERNS ABOUT THE PROJECT ADDRESSING THE COMMUNITY PLAN VISION AND THEMES AROUND ECONOMIC DIVERSITY, REDUCED TRAFFIC AND ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARDSHIP. 
          THERE'S CONCERNED THAT THE PARKING REDUCTIONS BEING PROPOSED WERE NOT APPROPRIATE. 
          AND THEN THERE WAS SOME CONCERN ON NEEDING TO NOT HAVING THE FINAL ANALYSIS ON A OTS, UH, AN ADOS COMMENTS ON THE TRAFFIC ANALYSIS. 
          SO AFTER THE PNC OF PUBLIC HEARING, THE APPLICANT DID APPEAL, UM, THE HEARING OR THE DECISION, WHICH IS WHY WE'RE HERE TONIGHT. 
          AND SO, AS PART OF THE APPEAL, THE CITY COUNCIL MAY AFFIRM THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION'S DENIAL, WHICH WOULD RESULT IN A DENIAL OF THE PROJECT. 
          THEY CAN REVERSE P AND Z'S DENIAL AND AS, AND THEN APPROVE THE PROJECT, UM, AS THE, AS IT WAS PRESENTED TO P AND Z OR CAN REVERSE THE DENIAL AND AMEND. 
          SO ESSENTIALLY ADD ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS THAT YOU THINK WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE CONCERNS RAISED. 
          SO THAT'S THE END OF MY PRESENTATION. 
          THANK YOU, CARRIE. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          NOW WE HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE FROM WHITLEY MORRIS. 
          OH, YOU WANT YOU HAVE A QUESTION? I DON'T, BUT I STILL, ARE WE DOING QUESTIONS NOW OR NO? WELL, WE'RE GONNA WAIT BECAUSE WE WANT TO KEEP EVERYTHING FLOWING. 
          THAT'S FINE. 
          WASN'T MIKE? YEAH, YOU CAN SIT HERE. 
          WE WON'T BITE . 
          I'D LIKE TO STAND AND PACE, BUT IF I, IF I HAVE TO SIT AND TALK, I CAN DO THAT TOO. 
          UH, GOOD AFTERNOON. 
          UH, MR. MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL BENJAMIN TATE WITH WITHY MORRIS 25 25 EAST OV BILTMORE CIRCLE ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT. 
          UH, UH, I GUESS I'LL START BY AND I'LL, I'LL, I'LL TRY TO KEEP THIS BRIEF. 
          I KNOW I ONLY HAVE 10 MINUTES, BUT I GUESS AS TO ILLUSTRATE SORT OF THE UNIQUENESS OF THIS HEARING. 
          UH, TYPICALLY IN AN APPEAL, THE APPLICANT OR THE APPELLANT WOULD GO FIRST AND THEN, AND THEN STAFF WOULD PROVIDE COMMENT AFTER THAT. 
          UH, WE'RE DOING IT IN REVERSE REVERSE ORDER THIS TIME. 
          AND I HOPE THIS ILLUSTRATES THE, THE MERIT OF THIS APPEAL. 
          UH, THAT STAFF AND THE APPLICANT ARE ACTUALLY ON THE SAME PAGE, WHICH REALLY DOESN'T HAPPEN OFTEN, IF EVER, IN THESE APPEAL SITUATIONS, CUZ USUALLY WE'RE DISAGREEING WITH STAFF AND VICE VERSA. 
          UH, BUT THIS IS ACTUALLY A CASE WHERE STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL. 
          WE ARE REQUESTING THE OVERTURN OF THE DENIAL, UH, BECAUSE WE EQUALLY SEE THE MERIT, UH, OF THE PROJECT HERE. 
          UH, SO I'LL, I'LL BUZZ THROUGH THESE PRETTY QUICKLY CUZ CARRIE COVERED MOST OF THIS IN HER PRESENTATION. 
          IT'S JUST OVER FIVE AND A THIRD ACRES. 
          IT'S ZONED COMMERCIAL. 
          UH, TO OUR NORTH WE'VE GOT A, A COMBINATION OF ZONING THAT'S PD AND COMMERCIAL, UH, SOME CONDOS, SOME VACATION RENTALS AND APARTMENTS TO THE EAST OF US, AS CARRIE POINTED OUT, IS THE COCONINO NATIONAL FOREST. 
          UH, TO THE SOUTH IS SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, THAT'S THE OAK CREEK K KNOWLES NEIGHBORHOOD. 
          AND THEN TO THE WEST, OBVIOUSLY IS THE ARABELLA HOTEL THAT IS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS PROJECT. 
          UH, AND AS CARRIE HIGHLIGHTED, UH, THIS PROPERTY WAS APPROVED IN 2008 FOR AN 88,000 PLUS SQUARE FOOT MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT THAT ALSO INCLUDED A SPA SO CONSIDERABLY MORE INTENSE, UH, THAN WHAT WE ARE REQUESTING HERE TODAY. 
          AND IN FACT, ABOUT FIVE TIMES, UH, MORE INTENSE OR FOUR BETWEEN FOUR AND, UH, FIVE TIMES, KERRY COVERED THE CURTAIN ZONING. 
          BUT I THINK THE, THE IMPORTANT THING TO HIGHLIGHT HERE IS THAT THE, THE LAND USE THAT WE ARE REQUESTING, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS PERMITTED BY, RIGHT? UH, THIS IS, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING WHERE WE ARE GOING THROUGH A REZONE AND ASKING FOR THE COUNCIL'S LEGISLATIVE DISCRETION FOR A CHANGE IN LAND USE. 
          UH, SO THE PREVIOUS APPROVAL, AS KERRY POINTED OUT, UH, WAS ABOUT 89,000 SQUARE FEET TOTAL. 
          IT HAD A 22,000 SQUARE FOOT SPA, UH, ALMOST 11,000 SQUARE FOOT RESTAURANT, ABOUT 14,000 SQUARE FEET OF RETAIL, 15 CONDOS, AND ABOUT 237 PARKING SPACES. 
          UH, AND, AND ASIDE FROM THE OBVIOUS DIFFERENCE IN INTENSITY, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT IS IF YOU LOOK AT HOW, UH, TOPOGRAPHICALLY DIVERSE THIS SITE IS, THIS IS NOT A FLAT SITE. 
          UH, IN ORDER TO ACCOMPLISH THIS SITE PLAN, THEY WOULD'VE HAD TO ESSENTIALLY 
          [00:15:01]
MASS GRADE THE ENTIRE SITE OR FLATTEN IT. 
          UH, AND AS YOU'LL SEE FROM THE PLANS THAT, UH, WELL, IRWIN PUT TOGETHER A VERY TALENTED ARCHITECT, UH, THEY'VE REALLY TRIED TO KEEP AS MUCH OF THE NATURAL TERRAIN UNDISTURBED AS POSSIBLE, WHICH I KNOW IS A PRIORITY FOR THIS COUNCIL OF KEEPING AS MUCH OF THIS COMMUNITY REMAINING, UH, THAT IS VACANT, REMAINING NATURAL AS POSSIBLE. 
          UH, SO REALLY TRYING TO BE RESPECTFUL OF THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY. 
          ITS PROXIMITY TO THE COCONINO NATIONAL FOREST AND DO SOMETHING THAT REALLY MERITS, UM, THE, THE VALUE OF THIS LAND. 
          ACTUALLY, CAN I, HOW DO I BACK UP? UM, CAN YOU BACK ME UP? THANK YOU. 
          UH, I KNOW WATER WAS A VERY BIG ISSUE FOR THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'LL POINT OUT, AND IT'S, IT'S ON THE PLAT, UH, FROM THAT ORIGINAL APPROVAL IN 2008, THAT THE CALCULATED WATER DEMAND FOR THAT PROJECT WAS ABOUT 26.72 GALLONS PER MINUTE, OR ABOUT JUST UNDER 39, 9 30 9,000 GALLONS PER DAY. 
          UH, THE WATER USAGE OF THIS PROJECT, AND WE'LL GET INTO THIS WITH THE, THE POOLS, UH, IS A SOMEWHERE BETWEEN HALF AND A THIRD OF THAT. 
          UH, SO IT'S CONSIDERABLY LOWER IN WATER DEMAND. 
          IT'S CONSIDERABLY LOWER IN TRAFFIC GENERATION, BUT, UH, WE'LL GET TO ALL THAT. 
          SO CARRY COVERED THE CURRENT PROPOSAL, 20,000 SQUARE FEET TOTAL, UH, MEANDERING UP THE HILLSIDE. 
          THE EAST IS OVER HERE. 
          SO REALLY THIS IS MOVING FROM EAST OVER HERE TO WEST OVER HERE. 
          WE'RE REALLY ON THE BACKSIDE OF THAT HILL, KIND OF WITH OUR BACK TURNS TO 1 79. 
          SO YOU REALLY WOULDN'T SEE MOST, UH, IF ANY OF THIS FROM, UH, FROM THE 1 79, A 15,000 SQUARE FOOT BISTRO. 
          UH, THREE WARM POOLS AND TWO COLD PLUNGE POOLS. 
          WE CAN GET INTO THIS IF YOU'D LIKE TO UNDERSTAND MORE ABOUT, UH, REALLY THE INTENT OF THIS SPA, WHICH IS A NORDIC THERMO THERAPY SPA, ALTERNATING BETWEEN HOT AND COLD TREATMENTS. 
          UH, THREE PAVED MAINTAINED PARKING SPACES FOR THE MARS DRAW TRAIL. 
          UH, WE'RE ALSO DOING A SHUTTLE STOP AND AS I POINTED OUT, ABOUT 29% LOCK COVERAGE, WHICH IS SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN THAT PREVIOUS APPROVED DEVELOPMENT. 
          THERE'S THE SITE PLAN, UH, THESE ARE THE RENDERINGS, AND WE, WE, AGAIN, WE'VE ALREADY COVERED THESE, SO I'M TRYING TO BE ECONOMICAL IN MY USE OF THIS 10 MINUTES. 
          UH, THIS WOULD BE A VIEW LOOKING BACK TOWARDS THE ROCKS FROM ONE OF THOSE PLUNGE, FROM ONE OF THOSE HEATED POOLS. 
          SO CHANGES FROM ORIGINAL PLAN. 
          SO THERE WERE SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF CHANGES MADE BASED ON STAFF INPUT AND INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY FROM THE ORIGINAL SUBMITTAL TO WHAT YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU NOW. 
          SO WE'VE REMOVED THE SPA CASITAS, WHICH WERE PART OF THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL. 
          WE'VE REMOVED, REMOVED AN OBSERVATION DE THAT WAS A REQUEST OF THE COMMUNITY JUST TAKING SOMETHING OFF OF THE ROOFTOP THAT COULD CREATE ANY, UH, ADDITIONAL NOISE IN THE AREA. 
          THE ADDITION OF THE TRAILHEAD PARKING, THE ADDITION OF THE SHUTTLE STOP ADDITIONAL PLANTINGS AND VEGETATION ALONG THE SOUTHEAST PROPERTY LINE TO SCREEN, UH, NEIGHBOR VIEWS. 
          AND WE REORIENTED BUILDING FOUR, UH, WHICH IS THIS ONE OVER HERE, UH, TOWARD THE NORTH SIDE OF THE HILL AWAY FROM THE NEIGHBORS. 
          AND, UH, ALSO PROVIDED SOME NATURAL AND ROCK SCREENING ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING TO FURTHER SCREEN THAT BUILDING, UH, WATER USE. 
          UH, SO I KNOW THIS ONE IS REALLY IMPORTANT. 
          SO OUR, OUR CALCULATED WATER, UH, USE IS ABOUT 7.91 GALLONS PER MINUTE. 
          UH, AND THAT'S ABOUT A, SORRY, ABOUT A THIRD OF THAT. 
          AND SO I, I KNOW THAT A BIG FOCUS OF THE P AND Z COMMISSION'S REVIEW WAS THE WATER USAGE OF THE POOLS. 
          AND ALTHOUGH A POOL IS A, OBVIOUSLY A BODY OF WATER THAT HOLDS A LOT OF WATER, IT IS NOT ACTUALLY A HIGH WATER USE USE. 
          SO ACTUALLY LESS THAN A THIRD OF OUR TOTAL WATER CALCULATED WATER DEMAND FOR THE PROJECT IS BECAUSE OF THE POOLS. 
          IT'S ABOUT 2.39 GALLONS PER MINUTE PER DAY. 
          UM, THE RESTAURANT CONSUMES ABOUT AS MUCH WATER AS ALL THE POOLS COMBINED. 
          THAT'S 1.76 GALLONS PER MINUTE, AND THAT'S A 1500 SQUARE FOOT RESTAURANT. 
          WHEN YOU COMPARE THAT TO THE 10, ALMOST 11,000 SQUARE FOOT RESTAURANT THAT WAS ON THE PREVIOUS PROPOSAL. 
          UH, OUR LOW WATER USE LANDSCAPING ZEROSCAPE, UH, CONSUMES MORE THAN ANY OF THE POOLS. 
          IT'S ABOUT 1.6 GALLONS PER MINUTE. 
          AND THE RESTAURANT LANDSCAPING TOGETHER ACCOUNT FOR MORE THAN HALF OF OUR, ALMOST HALF OF OUR TOTAL WATER DEMAND, AND CONSIDERABLY MORE THAN THE POOLS. 
          UH, AND, AND WHAT I'LL GET INTO, WHICH IS REALLY I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT OF THIS, THAT THIS IS NOT AN SORT OF AN AD HO OR QUICKLY PUT TOGETHER PROPOSAL. 
          UH, THE POOLS HERE ARE DESIGNED, UH, BY A COMPANY CALLED AQUA DESIGNS INTERNATIONAL. 
          WE HAVE KEN HERE IN IN THE, IN THE AUDIENCE IF YOU'D LIKE TO ASK, UH, KEN ABOUT THE POOL DESIGN. 
          BUT AQUA DESIGN AND INTERNATIONAL IS AN INDUSTRY LEADER IN, UH, COMMERCIAL POOL DESIGN. 
          AND, AND WE'RE TALKING SOME OF THE MOST RECOGNIZABLE POOLS IN THE WORLD. 
          SO IF YOU'VE EVER, EVER HEARD OF AHMAN GEAR, WHICH IS A, A SMALL RESORT NEAR THE UTAH, ARIZONA BORDER, THEY DESIGN AHMAN GEAR'S POOL, UH, AMONG OTHERS. 
          AND WHAT THEY'RE KNOWN FOR AND WHAT THEY'RE AN INDUSTRY LEADER IN IS, IS THEY'RE, UH, EFFICIENT, SUSTAINABLE, AND INNOVATIVE POOL DESIGNS. 
          AND SO WE'VE THOUGHT OF ALL OF THIS. 
          AND THE THING THAT I WOULD POINT OUT MORE THAN ANYTHING IS THAT THE, THE WATER ASSUMPTIONS THAT I SHOWED YOU IN THE PREVIOUS SLIDE ARE BASED ON NUMBERS, ASSUMPTIONS THAT WE ARE GIVEN BY THE ARIZONA WATER COMPANY, WHICH IS THE WATER UTILITY FOR THIS PROJECT. 
          WE EXPECT TO SIGNIFICANTLY OUTPERFORM THOSE ASSUMPTIONS BECAUSE OF THE WATER CONSERVATION MEASURES THAT THIS POOL SYSTEM IS BEING DESIGNED WITH. 
          UH, THAT STARTS WITH A MULTI CYCLONE CENTRIFUGAL PRE-FILTER THAT MINIMIZES BACK WASHING FREQUENCY AND VOLUME. 
          UH, REGENERATOR, REGENERATOR, REGENERATIVE MEDIA FILTERS, EXCUSE ME, UH, THAT FIL UH, DUE FILTRATION DOWN 
          [00:20:01]
TO ONE MICRON. 
          IT'S A 90% REDUCTION IN BACKWASH VOLUME. 
          WE'RE FILTERING SO MUCH OF THOSE PARTICULATES OUT OF THE WATER THAT IT MAKES BACK WASHING, UH, A LOT LESS NECESSARY AND A LOT LESS FREQUENT AND FREQUENT. 
          AND WHAT THAT BOILS DOWN TO IN TERMS OF SAVINGS IS A 50% REDUCTION IN POWER CONSUMPTION OVER A POOL, UH, TRADITIONAL POOL FILTRATION SYSTEM, A 30% REDUCTION IN POOL CHEMICAL USE, AND A 50 TO 70% REDUCTION IN BACKWASH RELATED WATER CONSUMPTION. 
          SO WE'RE TALKING 5,000 TO 7,000 GALLONS PER MONTH IN SAVINGS JUST FROM THE USE OF THESE FILTERS. 
          UH, THERMAL POOL COVERS WILL PROBABLY BE THE BIGGEST COMPONENT OF THIS, THOUGH, UH, BECAUSE THE SINGLE BIGGEST CONTRIBUTOR TO WATER USAGE RELATED TO POOLS IS EVAPORATION. 
          IT'S ABOUT 70%. 
          AND SIMPLY BY USE OF THERMAL POOL COVERS, WHEN THE POOLS ARE NOT IN, IN USE, IT REDUCES EVAPORATION BY 35%. 
          SO THAT'S A SAVINGS OF ABOUT 265 GALLONS PER DAY. 
          UH, JUST BE USING THESE THERMAL POOL COVERS. 
          UH, AND ALSO BECAUSE SOME OF THESE POOLS ARE TEMPERATURE REGULATED, IT ALSO REDUCES OUR, UH, OUR ENERGY CONSUMPTION, UH, BY ABOUT 50%. 
          AND THESE ARE NUMBERS, UH, THAT WE'RE NOT JUST TAKING FROM OUR OWN CALCULATIONS. 
          THESE ARE NUMBERS THAT ARE PROVIDED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY AND THE DEPART AND THE, UH, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY. 
          UH, ALSO WE CAN REDUCE THE FREQUENCY OF THE TIMES WE'RE HAVING TO CHANGE OUT THE WATER SIMPLY BY INSTITUTING OTHER, UH, SANITATION MEASURES BEYOND CHEMICALS. 
          SO THE USE OF OZONE, UH, WHICH MAY BE HARMFUL IN, UH, AC SYSTEMS, BUT IT'S ACTUALLY PERFECTLY SAFE AND HEALTHY IN POOLS BECAUSE THAT OXYGEN BOND, AND THIS MAY BE GETTING A LITTLE BIT TOO INTO THE WEEDS, , UH, BREAKS OFF SO READILY THAT IT CREATES AN OXIDIZER THAT HELPS KEEP THE POOLS MORE SANITARY AND LESS OF A NEED TO CHANGE OUT THE POOL, UH, THE POOL CHEMICALS AND AN ULTRA FINEING BUBBLE JANER, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU PUT A HUNDRED MILLION BUBBLES PER MILLILITER OF WATER, BUT SOMEHOW THEY FIGURED OUT A WAY TO DO IT. 
          UH, AND THE INCREASED DISSOLVED OXYGEN CONTENT ALSO HELPS FURTHER SANITIZE THE POOLS. 
          THESE ARE ALSO MEASURES THAT THEY'LL BE IMPLEMENTING IN THEIR POOL SYSTEM. 
          UH, PARKING, I KNOW THIS WAS ALSO A CONCERN OF THE P AND Z. 
          UH, THE WAY THAT THESE PARKING NUMBERS ARE CALCULATED, BECAUSE WE ARE ASKING FOR A PARKING REDUCTION, IS, IS NOT JUST NUMBERS THAT WE'VE CALCULATED OURSELVES. 
          IT'S BASED UPON, AND I'M SURE HANUKKAH CAN TELL YOU THIS FROM YOUR ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT, THE IT'S TRIP GENERATION MANUAL, WHICH IS CONSIDERED THE GOLD STANDARD IN CALCULATING TRIP GENERATION FOR, FOR ANY TYPE OF A LAND USE. 
          AND WHAT IT ALLOWS YOU TO DO IS LOOK AT LAND USES THAT ARE RELATED, WHERE PEOPLE MAY ALREADY BE COMING TO A SITE FOR PARTICULAR REASON. 
          YOU SEE THIS A LOT IN MIXED USE DEVELOPMENTS. 
          AND BECAUSE OF THAT, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY PARKING THERE WHO YOU DO NOT NEED AN ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACE FOR AN ADDITIONAL LAND USE. 
          AND SO BASED UPON, UH, THOSE CALCULATIONS, WE EXPECTED THAT ABOUT 38% OF THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE VISITING THE SPA ARE ALREADY VISITING THE HOTEL AND ARE GUESTS THERE, AND THEREFORE, WE DON'T NEED TO ADD AN ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACE FOR THOSE PEOPLE. 
          WOW. 
          DID A 10 MINUTES RUN THAT QUICKLY? , WITH YOUR PERMISSION. 
          THANK YOU. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, UH, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT CAME UP IN PLANNING, UH, PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MORE THAN ONCE WAS, UH, WHAT HAPPENS IF THERE'S A DIVORCE? ESSENTIALLY, WHAT HAPPENS IF THE OWNERSHIP OF THE SPA AND THE OWNERSHIP OF THE HOTEL FRACTURE, UH, AND, AND NOW WE'RE LEFT IN THIS SITUATION ONE WHERE ONE IS NO LONGER ABLE TO, TO RELY ON THE OTHER FOR PARKING. 
          WELL, THAT'S ALREADY BEEN CONTEMPLATED BY YOUR PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT STAFF, YOUR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT STAFF, AND IT'S STIPULATION AR UH, WHICH IS ONE OF THE REQUESTED OR THE PROPOSED STIPULATIONS OF APPROVAL, UH, WHICH CARRIE MENTIONED, WHICH IS THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO EXECUTE A PARKING AGREEMENT, UH, PRIOR TO THE ISSUES OF ANY PERMIT, UH, THAT WOULD ENSURE THAT THIS AGREEMENT SURVIVES ANY CHANGES IN OWNERSHIP, WHETHER IT'S A CHANGE IN OWNERSHIP OF BOTH ENTITIES OR ONE ENTITY, UH, TO ENSURE THAT THIS PARKING AGREEMENT WOULD SURVIVE A CHANGE IN OWNERSHIP NO MATTER WHO OWNS THE, UH, WHO OWNS THE PROPERTY. 
          SO THAT 38%, THAT'S NOT GO TOO FAR. 
          I'M, I'M TRYING. 
          NO, NO, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE PASSED. 
          I WANTED YOU TO FINISH THAT ONE, UH, POINT. 
          SO, UM, OKAY. 
          SO YOU DON'T WANT ME TO GO THROUGH TRAFFIC OR PUBLIC BENEFIT? YOU HAVE THE 10 MINUTES. 
          YOU, YOU CAN EXTEND THE TIME. 
          MAYOR AND COUNSEL IF YOU'D LIKE TO. 
          I, I'D LIKE TO HEAR WHAT HE HAS TO SAY. 
          HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU THINK YOU NEED? FIVE MINUTES. 
          YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. 
          I DEFINITELY, ESPECIALLY THAT TOPIC I'D LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UNDERSTOOD. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, I'M A FAST ER, ONLY I CAN GO SO FAST. 
          . 
          UH, SO AGAIN, THE TRAFFIC ELEMENT OF THIS, I THINK IS ONE THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT. 
          AND IT'S THE SAME THAT WE LOOK AT WITH, UM, THE PARKING. 
          AND THAT'S, THERE'S A CERTAIN NUMBER OF TRIPS THAT WE CAN REDUCE FROM OUR EXPECTED TRIP COUNT BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE ARE ALREADY COMING TO THE HOTEL. 
          SO THERE WOULD BE A BIT OF A DOUBLE COUNT IF WE COUNTED BOTH INDEPENDENTLY OF ONE ANOTHER. 
          AND, AND AMONG THE USES THAT YOU COULD LOOK AT FOR THIS PROPERTY AND THE AMOUNT OF PROPERTY THAT THIS, THE AMOUNT OF TR TRAFFIC THAT THIS PROPERTY IS GOING TO GENERATE, UH, YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT THIS PROPERTY CAN DEVELOP AS SOMETHING IT'S ZONED FOR COMMERCIAL, IT'S CURRENTLY VACANT. 
          SO AMONG THE USES THAT THIS COULD BE, THEN THE QUESTION BECOMES WHAT'S THE GONNA GENERATE THE LEASE TRAFFIC? UH, AND MANY OF THE OTHER USES THAT THIS PROPERTY COULD BE, WOULD NOT BENEFIT FROM THE SAME INTERNAL CAPTURE THAT A SPA WOULD, WHERE YOU HAVE A HOTEL IN A SPA RELATED TO ONE ANOTHER. 
          ALSO, ON TOP OF THAT, BASED ON THOSE ASSUMPTIONS, WE EXPECT THERE TO BE LESS TRAFFIC GENERATED BECAUSE OF 
          [00:25:01]
THE SLOW TURNOVER, BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING HERE, THIS IS NOT A RETAIL USE, PEOPLE AREN'T COMING FOR 20 MINUTES AND LEAVING. 
          WE EX EXPECT THE EXPEND, THE EX EXPECTED STAY TO BE TWO TO THREE HOURS. 
          SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE LESS TURNOVER AND LESS FREQUENT TRIPS THROUGHOUT THE DAY. 
          SO THAT EXPECTED TRIP GENERATION, OUR EXPECTED PEAK AM GENERATION IS 42 TRIPS TOTAL. 
          SO THAT'S THE BUSIEST HOUR OF THE MORNING IN AND OUT COMBINED 42 TRIPS. 
          THAT MEANS AN ADDITIONAL ONE CAR EVERY 1.43 MINUTES, WHICH IS NEGLIGIBLE, UH, AMONG, UH, TRIPS AS FAR AS TRAFFIC IS CONCERNED. 
          IN THE PEAK PM HOUR, THAT'S 65 TRIPS. 
          SO THAT'S JUST UNDER ONE, SORRY, ONE ADDITIONAL CAR EVERY 9.9 MINUTES, JUST ABOUT ONE MINUTE, UH, PER CAR, UH, THE SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER TRIPP GENERATION THAN AGAIN, OTHER CONVENTIONAL USES BECAUSE THIS IS RELATED TO THE HOTEL AND A FRACTION OF THE TRIP GENERATION, UH, IN COMPARISON TO THAT 90, 89,000 SQUARE FOOT DEVELOPMENT, UH, FROM 2008. 
          AND THE QUESTION ABOUT THE ADOT, UH, COMMENTS, WE ARE STILL AT THEIR MERCY. 
          THEY STILL HAVEN'T PROVIDED US TRAFFIC COMMENTS. 
          UH, BUT STIPULATION EIGHT B REALLY DOES COVER THAT AND SAYS THAT WHATEVER A DOT DETERMINES IS THE APPROPRIATE ME, UH, MITIGATION ON 1 79, WE HAVE TO PRESENT THAT TO STAFF AND THAT HAS TO BE INCLUDED BEFORE WE CAN GET A BUILDING PERMIT. 
          OH, CAN YOU GO BACK ONE, SORRY. 
          UH, FINALLY, PUBLIC BENEFIT. 
          UH, THE STARTING POINT OF THE CONVERSATION ABOUT PUBLIC BENEFIT STARTS WITH SECTION 8.3 OF THE LDC, WHICH ESSENTIALLY SAYS THE COUNCIL CAN, CAN APPROVE A PROJECT THAT DOES NOT COMPLY WITH ALL OF THE REQUIREMENT, THE, THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL. 
          ALL OF THE ELEMENTS OF THE L D C, IF THEY FIND THAT THERE'S A PUBLIC BENEFIT THAT OUTWEIGHS AN AN A NON-COMPLIANCE HERE, I WOULD POINT OUT THAT YOUR STAFF HAS TOLD YOU THROUGH THEIR ANALYSIS THAT THIS MEETS EVERY REQUIREMENT OF YOUR LDC, AND WE MEET ALL OF THE ELEMENTS THAT ARE REQUIRED FOR A DEVELOPMENT REVIEW APPROVAL. 
          BUT ON TOP OF THAT, THERE ARE STILL PUBLIC BENEFITS THAT WE ARE PROVIDING. 
          I POINTED OUT THAT WE ARE PROVIDING PAVED STRIPES, TRAILHEAD PARKING SPACES FOR THE DRAW TRAILHEAD. 
          CURRENTLY, IT'S JUST SORT OF AN, AN UNREGULATED GRAVEL LOT. 
          UH, WE'RE PROVIDING A SHUTTLE STOP TO HOPEFULLY DECREASE ADDITIONAL TRIPS TO THE SITE. 
          THERE WOULD BE ONE CAR PER PERSON TO WHERE NOW WE'RE HAVING MULTIPLE PEOPLE COMING IN A SHUTTLE RATHER THAN ONE CAR. 
          UH, AND WE'RE ALSO PROVIDING, UM, AS CARRIE POINTED OUT, A SIGNIFICANT SETBACK, UH, BETWEEN OUR NEAREST BUILDING AND THE PROPERTY LINE, WHICH IS ENCOURAGED BY YOUR COMMUNITY PLAN FOR PROPERTIES ADJACENT TO THE COCONINO NATIONAL FOREST. 
          AND SO THAT'S, UH, THAT'S IT IN A NUTSHELL. 
          UH, WE'RE PROPOSING A SITE THAT'S ABOUT A QUARTER OF THE INTENSITY OF A PROJECT THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED OF THIS SITE. 
          THE LAND USE THAT WE'RE REQUESTING IS ONE THAT'S PERMITTED BY W RIGHT IN THE ZONING DISTRICT THAT THIS PROPERTY IS IN. 
          UH, IT'S ABOUT A 42 TO 71% REDUCTION IN WATER DEMAND RELATIVE TO THAT PREVIOUS PROJECT, A 40 PER 4% REDUCTION IN TRIP GENERATION RELATIVE TO THE 2008 PROJECT, AND AN 80% REDUCTION IN GROSS SQUARE FOOTAGE. 
          THIS IS A PROJECT WITH 29% LOCK COVERAGE, UH, EXTENSIVE WATER CONSERVATION MEASURES, AS I'VE, I'VE POINTED OUT. 
          AND, AND FINALLY, THAT THIS IS A PROJECT THAT THE PROFESSIONAL STAFF THAT, THAT YOU PAY TO MAKE THIS TYPE OF ANALYSIS HAS TOLD YOU, UH, MEETS EVERY ELEMENT OF THE CRITERIA FOR A DEVELOPMENT REVIEW APPROVAL. 
          AND WITH THAT, I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. 
          OKAY. 
          BEFORE I WANNA CHECK WITH THE COUNCIL. 
          WOULD YOU LIKE TO? IT'S, WELL, IS THERE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT? UH, SHAR, WE HAVE THREE CARDS. 
          OKAY. 
          I'D LIKE TO HEAR THE PUBLIC COMMENT FIRST SO WE CAN ASK OUR QUESTIONS OF BOTH, SO WE HAVE INCORPORATE IT ALL TOGETHER. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          HERE'S, UH, SUSAN, SUZANNE KASSIN. 
          KOSLIN GOSAR. 
          GOOD. 
          THAT WORKS BETTER. 
          OKAY. 
          ON DECK IS JOHN GRIFFIN. 
          HERE WE ARE AGAIN. 
          AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALLOWING US TO BE ABLE TO COMMENT. 
          CAN YOU PLEASE START WITH YOUR NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE? I'M SORRY. 
          I'M SUZANNE GOSAR. 
          I LIVE AT, UH, CITY 30 PINE WOOD DRIVE. 
          JUST THE CITY. 
          JUST THE CITY. 
          SEDONA. 
          THANK YOU. 
          I LIVE VERY CLOSE TO THIS PROJECT. 
          UM, YOU DID A BEAUTIFUL JOB OF PRESENTING WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, BUT IT REMINDS ME OF AN OLD COUNTRY EXPRESSION, KIND OF LIKE PUTTING LIPSTICK ON A PIG. 
          IT'S STILL A PIG, AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE, AND I'M SPEAKING FOR MY NEIGHBORS FEEL. 
          WE DON'T WANT NEAR OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. 
          FIRST OF ALL, TRAFFIC. 
          AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE. 
          I LOVED YOUR PICTURE THAT SHOWED ONE CARD ON THE CAR ON THE ROAD. 
          HOW LONG HAS IT BEEN SINCE ANY OF US HAVE SEEN THAT? AND, UM, THE OTHER IS THE WATER USAGE. 
          WE'VE HAD SOME 
          [00:30:01]
WONDERFUL RAINFALL RECENTLY, BUT OVERALL WE ARE COMING OFF AND HAVE HAD A HISTORIC DROUGHT. 
          AND IT'S PREDICTED TO CONTINUE FOR, WE DON'T KNOW HOW LONG, BUT LONG. 
          AND ANY PROJECT THAT IS PROPOSING THE USE OF THE WATER THAT THEY ARE ASKING FOR, I AM AGAINST, WHETHER IT'S IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, ANYWHERE IN SEDONA. 
          SO THAT'S ABOUT IT FOR ME. 
          AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR LETTING ME COMMENT. 
          THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 
          JOHN GRIFFIN. 
          WE'LL BE FOLLOWED BY MEGAN. 
          DR. 
          UH, I CAN'T, I CAN'T READ THE, THE LAST NAME. 
          IF ANYONE ELSE HAS A CARD, WOULD YOU PLEASE DROP THEM OFF WITH ME? OKAY. 
          JOHN, YOU KNOW THE DRILL LAST NAME? UH, WELL, YOUR NAME AND CITY. 
          YEAH. 
          GREETING, UH, MR. MAYOR, CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS. 
          MY NAME IS JOHN GRIFFIN. 
          I'M A LONGTIME, UH, SEDONA RESIDENT AND PAST, UH, 15 YEAR MEMBER OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION. 
          I'VE ALSO OWNED PROPERTY AT THE TOP OF SOMBER HILL. 
          FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS, SEDONA INHERITED, UH, THE LAND AND ZONING THAT WOULD BECOME THE CITY FROM TWO DIFFERENT COUNTIES. 
          WE STRUGGLED TO CREATE A CITY THAT WOULD BLEND THE NATURAL BEAUTY OF SEDONA AND THE RED ROCKS. 
          THE, THE CITY, UH, CREATED BUILDING CODES, BUILDING HEIGHTS, MASSING, AND COLOR. 
          WE ALSO CREATED A DESIGN REVIEW MANUAL AND SPENT A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF TIME ON IT TO HELP GUIDE FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS. 
          UNFORTUNATELY, SOME PARCELS THAT WE INHERITED, UH, LIKE THIS ONE, UH, WERE NOT IN ANY KIND OF A MASTER PLAN, AND THAT'S A WHOLE NOTHER THING WHEN COUNTIES DECIDE TO DO ZONING. 
          UH, IT'S, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT GOOD. 
          THERE'S NOT MUCH THOUGHT THAT GOES INTO IT. 
          UM, SO THIS PROPERTY, OBVIOUSLY, AS YOU'VE HEARD, IS BETWEEN TWO RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS TO THE NORTH AND SOUTH. 
          AND THEN OF COURSE, ON THE EAST IS, UH, NATIONAL FOREST, WHICH IS ACTUALLY A WILDERNESS AREA. 
          THIS LOCATION OF THIS PARCEL OBVIOUSLY MADE IT VERY SPECIAL AND SENSITIVE FOR DEVELOPMENT. 
          UNFORTUNATELY, BECAUSE OF THIS LOCATION, I FEEL THE PROPOSED, UH, DESIGN, UH, THE DEVELOPMENT IS NOT MUCH WE CAN DO ABOUT, UH, DOESN'T FIT THE SITE VERY WELL. 
          OUR DESIGN GUIDELINES, UH, ADDRESSES MANY OF THE ISSUES OF THIS PROJECT. 
          SO EVEN IF THE USE IS PERMITTED, THE DESIGN DOESN'T WORK VERY WELL. 
          THE DESIGN IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THE ADJOINING RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS, WHICH IS ONE OF THE, UH, DESIGN GUIDELINES CRITERIA. 
          AND IT ALSO DOESN'T HAVE ANY RELATIONSHIP WITH THE DESIGN OF ABELS ARCHITECTURE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S SUPPOSEDLY IS SUPPOSED TO BE PART OF THAT PROJECT. 
          AND BECAUSE OF THAT OWNERSHIP, WE'LL BE ABLE TO ADVERTISE THE SPA, UH, ALONG 1 79, THIS ARCHITECTURAL STEREOTYPE, SO TO SPEAK. 
          UH, DESIGN IS NOT DISTINCTIVE WITH SEDONA AND NEEDS TO BE REVISITED BY THE ARCHITECT. 
          IF YOU READ THE DESIGN, UH, THE DESIGN GUIDELINES, IF YOU READ THE FIRST FEW PA UH, PAGES OF IT, YOU'LL SEE WHAT WE, BLESS YOU WANTED TO HAVE THE, THE TYPE OF DESIGNS BUILT IN SEDONA. 
          IF YOU LOOK AT THIS PROJECT, CAN YOU IMAGINE THIS PROJECT BEING A LONG 1 79 OR 89 A WITH ALL THE GLASS THAT'S THREE MI OR IS THAT A WARMUP? WHAT IS I, NO, THAT'S NO WARM UP. 
          JUST FINISH YOUR SENTENCE, JOHN. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, SO IF YOU LOOK AT, IF YOU TRY TO IMAGINE THAT BEING A LONG 1 79 OR 89 A, I THINK WE'D HAVE A DIFFERENT, A DIFFERENT OPINION WITH IT. 
          BUT, UH, TO TRY TO GO OVER ALL THE POINTS THAT THE DESIGN GUIDELINES SPECIFY IN TWO MINUTES OR THREE MINUTES IS NOT REALLY POSSIBLE. 
          SO I ADVISE YOU TO MAYBE LOOK AT THOSE AND SEE, UH, JOHN, GOTTA WRAP IT UP. 
          OH, WAS THAT WAS THE END. 
          YEAH, THAT WAS, YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          I, UH, OKAY. 
          WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND, UH, GOOD LUCK WITH THIS ONE. 
          THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 
          THANK YOU, SHARISE. 
          OKAY, SO NEXT IS MEGAN AND I THINK SMITH, PERHAPS. 
          OKAY. 
          FOLLOWED UP BY DENNIS LEWIS. 
          WHO'LL 
          [00:35:01]
BE ON DECK. 
          SORRY, I WAS STUDYING TO BE A DOCTOR, SO MY HANDWRITING TERRIBLE. 
          NO PROBLEM. 
          . 
          UM, I'M MEGAN SMITH. 
          I LIVE IN SEDONA, AND I LIVE IN THE MEDO HOUSE RIGHT ACROSS FROM WHERE THEY WANNA DO THE SPA, HISTORIC PROPERTY, UM, AS DEEMED BY SEDONA. 
          UM, I, I, MY NOTES ARE PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, OUR EARLIER COMPLAINTS ARE PROBABLY IN YOUR NOTES, BUT I'LL JUST GO OVER A COUPLE OF 'EM. 
          OF COURSE, THE WATER, AS WAS MENTIONED BEFORE, IS A CONCERN. 
          UM, THE TRAFFIC IN THAT AREA, AS YOU KNOW, AROUND TKA, P**I IS AWFUL. 
          AND WHEN HE SAID IT WAS ANOTHER ONE CAR PER MINUTE, THAT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT, LOT TO ME. 
          I DON'T KNOW, IT JUST SOUNDED LIKE A LOT. 
          WE DON'T ANYMORE CARS. 
          SO DONNA IN GENERAL JUST SEEMS LIKE IT'S BEEN, IT'S REACHING THE POINT OF DEVELOPMENT IS REALLY ENCROACHING ON A LOT OF THINGS. 
          IN FACT, I'VE HAD A COUPLE PEOPLE, A COUPLE OF MY FRIENDS SAID THEY'RE NEVER COMING BACK CUZ THE TRAFFIC IS SO AWFUL. 
          SO THAT MAKES ME SAD. 
          , AND I KNOW IT'S KIND OF OBNOXIOUS FOR THE US LOCALS HERE. 
          UM, UH, THE, MY THE VIEW FROM MY HOME IS OF THE BEAUTIFUL MOUNTAINS AND THE SPA'S GONNA BE RIGHT THERE. 
          AND I KNOW THAT THEY'VE TRIED TO REDUCE, UM, THE VIEW FROM OUR STANDPOINT. 
          WE'RE STILL GONNA BE ABLE TO SEE SOME, UM, WE WERE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE CONDOS RIGHT NOW. 
          THOSE ARE ON HOLD IS MY, MY UNDERSTANDING. 
          THOSE THAT HAVEN'T BEEN TOTALLY TAKEN OFF THE TABLE, THOSE WILL BE, UM, REALLY OF CONCERN TO US. 
          THERE'S ALSO A ROOFTOP TERRACE. 
          LAST TIME THEY WERE HERE, I THOUGHT THEY SAID THAT THAT WAS STILL POSSIBLE, EVEN THOUGH TODAY HE SAID IT WAS NOT. 
          I THOUGHT THAT WAS STILL ON THE TABLE FOR FUTURE. 
          UM, MAYBE THEY CAN TALK TO TALK ABOUT THAT. 
          UH, THEY ALSO TALKED ABOUT HOSTING EVENTS IN, IN THE FUTURE. 
          UH, THE NOISE OBVIOUSLY IS A CONCERN BECAUSE IT JUST KIND OF REVERBERATES ALL AROUND THE HILLS. 
          WEDDINGS, I COULD SEE THAT BEING A VERY POPULAR PLACE FOR WEDDING EVENTS, WHICH WOULD BE A LOT OF NOISE, RECEPTIONS, ET CETERA. 
          THEY ARE PUTTING, UH, TREES IN TO HIDE THE BUILDINGS, WHICH WE APPRECIATE. 
          UM, THE MORE, THE BETTER AND THE BIGGER, THE BETTER , UM, THE NATURAL HABITAT IS CONCERNED. 
          WE HAVE A LOT OF BEAUTIFUL ANIMALS AND THE, OF COURSE, THE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE SOIL AND ALL OF THAT IS, UH, VERY PRECIOUS AND IS GONNA BE DISTURBED QUITE A BIT. 
          UM, THE ONLY THREE SPACES FOR THE TRAIL, I DO USE THAT ON OCCASION. 
          AND THAT DOES SEEM LIKE IT'S PRETTY SPARSE. 
          I KNOW THAT WAS OF CONCERN LAST TIME THAT THEY SPOKE HERE, AND THAT IS BASICALLY IT. 
          THAT'S, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF CONCERNS. 
          . 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          NOW WE HAVE DENNIS LEWIS, WHO WILL BE FOLLOWED BY TAYLOR CARSON. 
          YOUR NAME IN THE CITY OF RESIDENCE, PLEASE. 
          HI, DENNIS LEWIS. 
          UH, SEDONA. 
          UM, I AM ACTUALLY, UH, NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS WITH MEGAN. 
          SO WE LIVE RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE PROPOSAL. 
          UM, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THESE ARE NOTED. 
          UM, YOU PROBABLY SEEN THEM, UH, A LOT OF THE COMMENTS THAT WERE IN THE FILE FROM, FROM THE PREVIOUS PLANNING AND ZONINGS. 
          UH, BUT JUST TO REPRESENT THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, WE HAVE HAD SOME ISSUES WITH THE ARABELLA HOTEL IN THE PAST WITH NOISE, UM, SOME LIGHT, UH, LIGHTS, ISSUES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          WE'VE WORKED TOGETHER, I WILL SAY TO, TO MAKE SOME IMPROVEMENTS THERE. 
          BUT, UM, THE GENERAL FEELING IS THAT WE, UH, HAVE CONCERNS THAT THERE IS A TRUE COMMITMENT TO KEEP THAT RELATIONSHIP, UM, GOOD AND TO BE A, A GOOD MEMBER OF OUR COMMUNITY. 
          UM, THE NEW ISSUES, I REALLY DO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT TRAFFIC. 
          UM, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT AROUND THAT TAK AREA TO GET ANYWHERE, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE IN SEASON. 
          UM, IT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF ADDITIONAL VEHICLES ARE GONNA BE THERE. 
          UH, I'M NOT GONNA HARP ON A LOT OF THESE THINGS. 
          EVERYBODY'S ALREADY MENTIONED. 
          UH, THE WATER, THE HOURS THAT MEGAN MENTIONED, UH, AND THE POTENTIAL FOR EVENTS. 
          UH, WE NEVER DID GET A COMMITMENT FROM THE ARABELLA ON WHAT THE HOURS WERE GOING TO BE. 
          WE HAVE CONCERNS THAT, UH, THEY OFTEN HAVE IN THE PAST AND I BELIEVE ARE PLANNING TO DO SO AGAIN, HAVE MUSIC IN THE COURTYARD AT THEIR HOTEL, UH, WHICH HAS LED TO A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS. 
          WE'RE WORRIED THAT THEY COULD HAVE EVENTS OR THEY COULD HAVE MUSIC UP LATE NIGHT, UM, YOU KNOW, UP ON TOP OF THE HILL AS THEY HAVEN'T GIVEN US ANY GUIDELINES ON, UH, WHAT USAGE THAT WILL BE IN THE EVENING. 
          UM, THE ROOFTOP HIT IT. 
          AND THEN JUST, JUST TO COMMENT, I, I THINK THE PUBLIC BENEFIT, THAT SOUNDS LIKE A LEGAL TERM, UM, BUT I DON'T, I, I DON'T SEE THAT THERE'S ANY PUBLIC BENEFIT TO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. 
          UM, ADDITIONALLY MAYBE THERE IS FOR  PEOPLE THAT WANT TO GO USE THE SPA THAT LIVE LOCAL. 
          UM, BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, UH, ALSO A, A PROPOSAL FROM 2008, IN MY OPINION, UH, THERE'S BEEN SO MUCH THAT'S CHANGED, UH, JUST IN THE WORLD AND ENVIRONMENTALLY, UH, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN REALLY DRAW A STRAIGHT LINE THROUGH THAT. 
          UM, AND I THINK THAT'S PRETTY MUCH ALL I HAD. 
          THANK YOU. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU VERY MUCH, DENNIS. 
          AND NOW WE HAVE, UH, TYLER NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE. 
          AND YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES. 
          MY NAME IS TYLER CARSON. 
          I LIVE IN SEDONA. 
          I LIVE IN THE APARTMENTS THAT ARE THE 
          [00:40:01]
FIRST ONES. 
          WHEN YOU COME OFF OF 1 79. 
          UM, FIRST CONCERN FOR ME, I ACTUALLY, HAVING LISTENED TO THIS TALK, I'M GONNA SURPRISE EVERYONE AND SAY I THINK IT'S PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA. 
          UM, AND I I ALSO THINK THAT THE, THE, THE CRITICAL EVALUATION THAT'S GOING THROUGH IS REALLY WONDERFUL. 
          THE FACT THAT THESE GUYS ARE MAKING CONCESSIONS AND YOU ARE, UH, LISTENING TO THE PUBLIC. 
          UNLESS THIS OWNING IS GONNA GO BACK TO RESIDENTIAL, WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD AT SOME POINT. 
          AND, UM, AND SO I'LL JUST START WITH THAT, BUT OFF 1 79, WHEN YOU DRIVE IN THERE, I HAVE A CONCERN WITH THE CIRCLE K THAT'S ALREADY THERE. 
          PEOPLE COMING NORTH WILL CUT RIGHT ACROSS, UH, SOME ART LANE DIRECTLY INTO THAT PARKING LOT. 
          IT'S VERY DANGEROUS WHEN YOU COME OUT THERE. 
          SO IF THERE'S GONNA BE INCREASED TRAFFIC, IT'S ABOUT TIME THAT THAT GETS ADDRESSED ANYWAY. 
          ALSO, IF YOU'RE COMING SOUTH AND TURNING LEFT, IT'S JUST A DANGEROUS KIND OF, UM, CLUSTER OF TRAFFIC THAT'S HAPPENING THERE. 
          I DON'T THINK THE INCREASED TRAFFIC THAT HE'S, UM, OUTLINED IS ESPECIALLY BAD. 
          UM, PARTICULARLY IF YOU CONSIDER, IF WE DENY THESE GUYS AND WE FIND A SHOPPING CENTER THAT DOESN'T HAVE WATER USAGE, WHAT ARE WE GONNA, WHAT ARE WE GONNA BE DEALING WITH? WATER USAGE THAT IS LOWER THAN A RESTAURANT IS EXTRAORDINARY. 
          WHEN I FIRST CAME HERE, I ACTUALLY THOUGHT I WAS OPPOSED TO IT BECAUSE I CAME TO THE MEETING IN NOVEMBER AND I MUST HAVE MISHEARD THE WATER NUMBERS. 
          I THOUGHT THEY WERE WAY HIGHER. 
          SO THIS, THIS, UH, EXPLANATION I FOUND VERY USEFUL TO SEE THAT IT'S A FRACTION OF THAT. 
          NOW, MY PERSONAL CONCERN AS WELL AS THE NOISE, I'M, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, A MUSICIAN THAT WAS IN THE COURTYARD AND I PLAYED DURING THE PANDEMIC AND THEY HELPED SAVE MY, UH, CAREER BECAUSE OTHERWISE I WAS REALLY STUCK. 
          HOWEVER, WHEN I PLAYED, I TURNED MY VOLUME WAY DOWN. 
          I'M A SOLO VIOLIN PLAYER AND MY CONCERN WITH WHAT THEY'RE DOING RIGHT NOW IS THEY'RE HIRING BANDS AND THEY'RE HIRING PEOPLE THAT PLAY COVER SONGS AND IT RATTLES OUT. 
          THEY'RE NOT, I DON'T THINK ERIC BELL IS DOING THEIR JOB IN, IN WORKING WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. 
          I AGREE WITH THAT. 
          SO I THINK THE MORE WE CAN WORK TOGETHER TO SOLVE THESE ISSUES AND MOVE FORWARD, THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU, TYLER. 
          OKAY. 
          ARE THERE ANY OTHER PEOPLE WHO, WHO WISH TO SPEAK? SEEING NONE, WE'LL BRING IT BACK TO COUNCIL AND, UH, NOW WE'LL ASK QUESTIONS. 
          UH, BRIAN, YOU NOTHING, MR. MR. MAYOR AND COUNSEL, WE HAVE THE REBUTTAL FROM EITHER SIDE IF THEY WANTED TO FIRST FIVE MINUTES. 
          THANK YOU FOR THE, FOR MONEY. 
          DO YOU, WOULD YOU LIKE TO REBUT ANYTHING THAT WAS JUST SAID? NOW, UH, MR. MAYOR, THANK YOU. 
          UH, I MEAN, I HAVE A FEW POINTS, BUT I'D BE MORE CURIOUS TO START TO HEAR THE COUNCIL'S QUESTIONS AND THERE MAY BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ME TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT THE COMMUNITY BROUGHT UP AS PART OF MY ANSWERS, KURT. 
          OKAY, THANKS. 
          OKAY, VICE MAYOR, SIR, I'LL START. 
          HI, THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATIONS. 
          UH, SO YOU TALKED ABOUT THE ALMOND GAR IN UTAH. 
          I WANTED TO GO TO THAT HOTEL FOR THE SPA. 
          IT WAS WAY TOO RICH FOR MY BLOOD AT, CURRENTLY, I HAVE IT RIGHT UP HERE. 
          THE, THE LOWEST PRICE FOR A HOTEL RIGHT NOW TODAY IS $2,800 PER NIGHT. 
          SO I ALSO WENT ON THE ARABELLA SITE AND THE LOWEST PRICE FOR HOTEL WAS $195. 
          SO MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, HOW DO YOU, DO YOU REALLY THINK A SPA THAT THAT YOU POINTED TO THAT HAS IN A HOTEL WHERE YOU'RE PAYING $2,800 A NIGHT, IS GOING TO BE USED BY PEOPLE WHO PAY $195 A NIGHT TO WHERE OUR PARKING GETS REDUCED BY 60 SOME, YOU KNOW, BUT 38% BECAUSE IT'S GONNA BE USED BY THE PEOPLE IN THAT HOTEL. 
          I FIND THAT TO BE REALLY DIFFICULT TO ACCEPT. 
          UH, THANK YOU, UH, MR. MAYOR, VICE MAYOR PLU THAT MY, MY INTENT IN ILLUSTRATING THE ALMOND GARY POOL AS PART OF AQUA DESIGNS INTERNATIONALS PORTFOLIO WAS SIMPLY TO ILLUSTRATE THAT THE, THE POOL COMPANY, NOT, NOT THE SPA AS A WHOLE, BUT THE POOL COMPANY, IS AN INDUSTRY LEADER IN POOL DESIGN THAT IS AT THE FOREFRONT OF SUSTAINABILITY AND EFFICIENCY AND REALLY EXCELLENT POOL DESIGN. 
          AND I USE THAT TO ILLUSTRATE THE POINT THAT IT WILL BE A, AS WELL AS YOU CAN CONSERVE WATER WITH A POOL SYSTEM. 
          THIS WILL BE BECAUSE THE ARABELLA HOTEL HAS TAKEN THE STEP OF HIRING THE BEST IN THE INDUSTRY TO DESIGN THEIR POOL SYSTEM. 
          I'M, AND SO I DON'T MEAN TO DRAW A STRAIGHT LINE BETWEEN THE ARABELLA HOTEL AND THE AMARY HOTEL, BUT RATHER TO ILLUSTRATE THAT THE SAME COMPANY THAT DESIGNED THE POOL SYSTEM, WHICH IS THE BEST IN THE BUSINESS, IS WHO THEY'VE HIRED TO DESIGN THEIR POOLS. 
          OKAY? AND I APPRECIATE THAT. 
          UH, HOWEVER, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A 
          [00:45:01]
REDUCTION IN PARKING BY AN ASSUMPTION THAT IT'S GOING TO DRAW A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF PEOPLE FROM THIS HOTEL TO THAT SPA. 
          SO I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, WHO IS THE SPA TARGETING AS ITS AUDIENCE? I MEAN, WHAT LEVEL IS THIS FIVE STAR SPA? BECAUSE IT LOOKS GORGEOUS. 
          SO IS THAT A LEGITIMATE, YOU KNOW, I KNOW AN ENGINEER SAYS IF YOU HAVE A HOTEL AND BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT REAL LIFE, REAL LIFE. 
          THE ARABELLA AT $195 A NIGHT, AND THAT'S TONIGHT, AND I KNOW IT'S LOW SEASON, I UNDERSTAND THAT. 
          BUT IS THAT PERSON REALLY GOING TO THIS SPA? WHO IS THIS SPOT TRYING TO ATTRACT? BECAUSE THIS IS A TRAFFIC ISSUE FROM MY PERSPECTIVE AS WELL AS A PARKING ISSUE. 
          UNDERSTOOD. 
          VICE MARY PLU, IT'S AGAIN, A VALID QUESTION AND I I GUESS IT'S A, THERE'S A TWO, IT'S A TWO PART ANSWER. 
          UH, AND, AND THE FIRST PART OF THAT ANSWER IS THE, THE IDEA BEHIND THE IT TRIP GENERATION MANUAL. 
          AND THE REASON THAT WE USE THOSE NUMBERS AND THE REASON THAT YOUR STAFF USES THOSE NUMBERS, AND THE REASON THAT EVERY MUNICIPAL ENGINEERING AGENCY IN THE COUNTRY, AND IN MANY CASES THE WORLD USES THOSE NUMBERS, IS BECAUSE THEY RELY UPON ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF DATA THAT HAVE BEEN ANALYZED TO MAKE THESE NUMBERS VALID AND ACCURATE FOR THE ASSUMPTIONS THAT YOU CAN MAKE IN REDUCTIONS IN PARKING BASED UPON RELATED USES. 
          SO THAT'S THE, THE FIRST PART OF, OF THE ANSWER. 
          AND, AND THE SECOND PART OF THE ANSWER IS THAT FROM A, FROM A PARKING PERSPECTIVE, IT HAS, IT IS AS JUST AS IMPORTANT TO THE ARABELLA HOTEL AND THE ARABELLA SPOT, IF NOT MORE SO, UH, THAN IT IS TO THE CITY, THAT THEY HAVE ENOUGH PARKING SPACES FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE VISITING THERE BECAUSE THE LAST THING THAT THEY WANT IS SOMEBODY WHO'S GONNA COME IN AND SPEND MONEY, UH, AT THEIR SPA OR AT THEIR HOTEL TO GET THERE AND TO NOT HAVE A PLACE TO PARK THAT'S BAD FOR BUSINESS. 
          AND THERE'S NOT REALLY A LOCATION. 
          IF YOU LOOK AT THE WAY THAT THIS SITE IS LAID OUT AND WHAT'S AROUND IT, THERE'S NOT REALLY ANYWHERE FOR A, A PATRON TO GO AND PARK THAT WOULD BE, THEY CAN'T GO OUT AND PARK ON 1 79 A, THEY'RE NOT GONNA GO PARK IN THE CIRCLE K PARKING LOT. 
          IT'S REALLY THE HOTEL AND THE SPA. 
          AND THAT'S WHY THIS PARKING AGREEMENT EXISTS BECAUSE THE ARABELLA HOTEL ITSELF HAS MORE PARKING THAN IT USES JUST BASED UPON THEIR ANALYSIS OF HOW, HOW FULL THEY ARE AND HOW FREQUENTLY THEY'RE FULL. 
          SO EVEN IN THE EVENT THAT THEY'RE USING OR NEED MORE THAN THOSE 61 SPACES FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE VISITING THE SPA, THEY HAVE SOME WIGGLE ROOM IN THE AVAILABLE PARKING AT THE HOTEL TO, TO DO THAT. 
          AND THAT'S ACTUALLY PART OF WHAT THE PARKING AGREEMENT IS DESIGNED TO ADDRESS, TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS ESSENTIALLY A CROSS PARKING AGREEMENT TO ENSURE THAT THEY ARE COVERED IN EITHER SITUATION. 
          BUT I, AGAIN, I GO BACK TO THE POINT THAT NOBODY CARES MORE ABOUT PARKING THAN THE OPERATOR BECAUSE IF THEY'RE NOT PROVIDING ENOUGH PARKING, IT'S BAD FOR BUSINESS. 
          OKAY, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT I I'M NOT TOTALLY BUYING IT AT THIS. 
          SAY, UH, THE, THIS IS AN AREA THAT'S A CH THAT'S A CHOKE POINT RIGHT NOW LOOKING AT IT AERIALLY, THE, THERE'S A NARROW ROAD PEOPLE GOING DOWN THAT ROAD. 
          I MEAN, IT IS NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE A LEFT TURN COMING OUT OF PROPERTIES ON ONE, YOU KNOW, THAT FRONT TO 1 79 WHEN IT'S A BUSY SEASON AND EVEN WHEN IT'S, YOU KNOW, A NORMAL SATURDAY. 
          SO TO ME, IF THERE'S NOT A LEFT TURN LANE, YOU'RE GONNA BACK UP ALL THE PEOPLE. 
          THE, THE PERSON WILL JUST ASSUME WANTS TO MAKE A LEFT TURN, THEY CAN'T, OR SITTING AND WAITING AND EVERYBODY BEHIND THEM WHO'S COMING OUT AND WANTS TO MAKE A RIGHT TURN IS BACKED UP. 
          SO THEN YOU'RE PUSHING PEOPLE TO THE RIGHT THAT CAN'T GET ACROSS TO THE LEFT, WHICH GOES INTO THE SCHLEY HILL ROUNDABOUT, WHICH IS ONE OF OUR WORST TRAFFIC CONGESTION CHOKE POINTS IN THE CITY. 
          SO I AGREE WITH THE PERSON WHO TESTIFIED THAT ONE CAR PER MINUTE TO ME SOUNDS LIKE A LOT INTO AN INTERSECTION GOING INTO A ROUNDABOUT THAT IS A CRISIS RIGHT NOW FOR US, AND WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MITIGATE THAT TODAY WITHOUT THIS ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC, UH, IS SPENDING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO DO IT. 
          AND NOW WE'RE GONNA ADD TRAFFIC. 
          SO CAN YOU ADDRESS THAT ISSUE? UH, YES. 
          VICE MAYOR PLU AGAIN, AND THE, THE WAY THAT I WOULD REFRAME THAT IS, AGAIN, THIS IS, THIS IS NOT A REZONING REQUEST. 
          WE'RE NOT ASKING TO REZONE THE PROPERTY. 
          WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR ANY ADDITIONAL LAND USES THAT AREN'T ALREADY PERMITTED. 
          SO WHAT WE ARE REQUESTING TO DO IS PERMITTED BY, RIGHT? SO THEY HAVE A LEGAL RIGHT AND A VESTED RIGHT TO DEVELOP THIS PROPERTY UNDER COMMERCIAL ZONING. 
          SO THE QUESTION THEN BECOMES, IF THIS PROPERTY IS GOING TO DEVELOP AND 
          [00:50:01]
IT'S GOING TO DEVELOP AS SOMETHING COMMERCIAL AMONG THAT SPECTRUM OF POTENTIAL USES, WHAT IS, WHAT IS THE ONE THAT'S GONNA GENERATE THE LEAST AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT'S VIABLE FOR THE DEVELOPER, OR SORRY, VIABLE FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER, UH, THAT CAN MAKE THE BEST OF THIS PROPERTY WHILE STILL CREATING THE SMALLEST IMPACTS? AND IF YOU COMPARE THIS NOT ONLY TO WHAT WAS APPROVED IN 2008, AND ACTUALLY THIS IS A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS, UH, MR. LEWIS, UH, LEWIS'S COMMENT ABOUT HOW, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PREVIOUS DEVELOPMENT WAS APPROVED IN 2008 TIMES, TIMES HAVE CHANGED. 
          YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A 89,000 SQUARE FOOT PROJECT. 
          I AGREE WITH HIM. 
          I I THINK HE'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. 
          AND THAT'S WHY THE PROJECT THAT'S IN FRONT OF YOU TODAY IS A QUARTER OF THAT SIZE. 
          UH, IT'S A QUARTER OF THE INTENSITY. 
          IT'S A QUARTER OF, IT'S ACTUALLY LESS THAN A QUARTER OF THE LOT COVERAGE AND BUILDING AREA BECAUSE WE RECOGNIZE THAT THE ENVIRONMENT, THE DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENT THAT SEDONA WAS IN IN 2008 AND THE DEVELOPMENT, THAT ENVIRONMENT THAT SEDONA IS IN, IN 2023 ARE VERY, VERY DIFFERENT. 
          UH, AND THAT WHEN YOU CONSIDER A SPA WHERE THE AVERAGE PERSON'S GONNA STAY THERE TWO TO THREE HOURS, AND THE MAXIMUM, MAXIMUM TRIP GENERATION IS 65 CARS IN THE EVENING IN AN, IN AN OVER AN HOUR. 
          AND YOU COMPARE THAT TO THE OTHER COMMERCIAL USES THAT THE SITE COULD BE DEVELOPED AS RETAIL, RESTAURANT, FOOD AND BEVERAGE, THINGS THAT HAVE A MUCH HIGHER TURNOVER, THAT GENERATE MANY MORE TRIPS TO AND FROM THE SITE. 
          I LOOK AT THIS USE AND I SAY THAT THERE IS NOT AMONG THE COMMERCIAL USES OTHER THAN MAYBE A CEMETERY, THERE'S NOT A BETTER USE OF THIS SITE FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE THAN SOMETHING LIKE A SPA. 
          OKAY. 
          MY THIRD AREA IS WATER. 
          AND I, I I, I GUESS I'M GONNA ASK YOU A QUESTION, BUT MAYBE I'LL WAIT UNTIL COMMENTS, BUT WE JUST WENT THROUGH A WATER ISSUE HERE, OUR LAST MEETING, AND WE DENIED, YOU KNOW, GRASS IN A PARK BECAUSE OF WATER USAGE. 
          AND THEN WHEN WE APPROVED IT, WE APPROVED IT BASED ON A REDUCTION OF WATER, UH, SO THAT IT WAS NOT ONLY A ONE FOR ONE REDUCTION, BUT ACTUAL REDUCTION OF WATER. 
          SO THE CITY TO SHOW ITS COMMITMENT TO SUSTAINABILITY ONLY APPROVED THIS PLACEMENT OF GRASS IN THIS PARK BASED ON A REDUCTION OF THE WATER. 
          YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT REDUCTION OF WATER FROM A, ANOTHER PROJECT IN 2008. 
          IS THERE ANY WAY FOR THE ARABELLA HOTEL TO COMMIT TO REDUCE ITS WATER USAGE SO THAT IF THE SPA WOULD GO IN AN INCREASE WATER USAGE, THERE WOULD BE A, A ONE TO ONE-TO-ONE OR LESS REDUCTION IN THE HOTEL TO OFFSET IT SO THAT OUR COUNCIL IS CONSISTENT AS IT APPROVES HIGH WATER USAGE PROJECTS TO BE SUSTAINABLE? UH, WELL, VICE MARY PUG, I, I HAVE A, A COUPLE OF COMMENTS BASED ON THAT AND I, I GO BACK TO THE SAME COMMENT THAT I MADE ABOUT TRAFFIC. 
          UH, AND THAT'S THAT SOMETHING IS GOING TO DEVELOP HERE. 
          THIS IS AN UNDEVELOPED SITE AND NO MATTER WHAT YOU PUT HERE, IT'S GOING TO CONSUME MORE WATER. 
          AND I'LL PUSH BACK AGAINST THE IDEA THAT A, A POOL IS A HIGH WATER USE LAND USE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE WATER USAGE OF A POOL. 
          AND I'VE GOT A, A TABLE, UH, AT THE BACK OF THIS PRESENTATION THAT'S PART OF OUR WATER DESIGN STUDY THAT WAS INCLUDED AS PART OF OUR SUBMITTALS, UH, THAT POOLS AS A WATER USE ARE NOT A HIGH WATER USE, LAND USE WHEN COMPARED TO OTHER LAND USES THAT ARE GIVEN FAR LESS SCRUTINY WHEN IT COMES TO THINGS LIKE THIS RESTAURANTS, FOR EXAMPLE. 
          SO OUR, OUR 15,000, SORRY, 1500 SQUARE FOOT RESTAURANT, A LITTLE BISTRO THAT'S A PART OF THIS, UM, USES AS MUCH WATER AS ABOUT TWO THIRDS OF THE POOLS COMBINED. 
          AND THAT OUR LANDSCAPING, WHICH IS ZEROSCAPE, IT'S THE LOWEST WATER USAGE LANDSCAPING, YOU CAN USE OUR LANDSCAPING AND OUR RESTAURANT COMBINED ACCOUNT FOR OVER 50% OF THE WATER USAGE OF THE ENTIRE PROJECT. 
          AND OUR POOLS ACCOUNT FOR RIGHT ABOUT A THIRD OF THE OVERALL WATER USAGE. 
          AND SO I WOULD PUSH BACK AGAINST THE IDEA THAT POOLS, ALTHOUGH THEY ENCOMPASS A BODY OF WATER, SO IT SEEMS LIKE A HIGH WATER USE ITEM ARE NOT ACTUALLY A HIGH WATER USE LAND USE. 
          AND THE REASON THAT I WENT THROUGH THE ADDITIONAL EXERCISE IN OUR, OUR POWERPOINT PRESENTATION WITH THE PRE-FILTERS, THE FILTERING SYSTEM, THE THERMAL POOL COVERS THE, UH, OTHER, UM, SANITATION MEASURES THROUGH, UH, OZONE AND OXYGEN INJECTION. 
          WERE TO ILLUSTRATE THAT AGAIN, ALONG WITH THE POOL DESIGN, THAT THE ARABELLA SPA IS GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND TO ENSURE THAT EVEN THOUGH POOLS AS A 
          [00:55:01]
LAND USE ARE NOT A HIGH WATER USE ITEM, BECAUSE THAT'S THE PERCEPTION, THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE THE EXTRA STEP AND THE EXTRA INVESTMENT TO TAKE ADDITIONAL MEASURES TO ACTUALLY OUTPERFORM THE ASSUMPTIONS OF WHAT THEIR WATER USE IS GOING TO BE. 
          AND EVEN AGAIN, BY VIRTUE OF JUST THE FILTRATION SYSTEM, THEY'RE GONNA SAVE BETWEEN FIVE AND 7,000 GALLONS A MONTH JUST ON BACKWASH. 
          AND THAT DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR EVAPORATION, WHICH THEY'RE REDUCING BY 35% JUST BY USING THERMAL POOL COVERS. 
          SO AGAIN, THIS IS GOING, THIS IS COMMERCIALLY OWNED PROPERTY THAT WILL DEVELOP AS SOMETHING, AND AMONG COMMERCIAL LAND USES A SPA AND POOLS ARE NOT A CONSIDERABLY GREATER USER OF WATER THAN ANY OTHER COMMERCIAL LAND USES, AND IN, AND IN MANY CASES USE LESS WATER. 
          BUT ON TOP OF THAT, THEY'RE TAKING THE EXTRA STEP OF INVESTING IN ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT AND PROCEDURES TO MINIMIZE THAT WATER CONSUMPTION. 
          OKAY. 
          SO WE'RE IN A WATER CRISIS IN THIS STATE. 
          I'M A SECOND GENERATION NATIVE. 
          OKAY? SO FOR US TO APPROVE ANY PROJECTS THAT HAVE A HUGE VOLUME OF WATER WE NEED TO LOOK AT, AND I APPRECIATE WHAT THEY'RE DOING TO CONSERVE WATER IN THE PLAN. 
          WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO GIVE UP A RESTAURANT WHICH HAS MORE WATER USAGE? I MEAN, SOMEWHERE IN THERE WE WANNA SEE LESS WATER, LESS WATER, BECAUSE WE'RE AC WE ARE IN A CRISIS. 
          NOW, WE MAY HAVE HAD RAIN RECENTLY, BUT THAT DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN IN A DROUGHT FOR YEARS. 
          SO A GOOD, UH, SEASON DOESN'T ELIMINATE THE WATER CRISIS THAT WE HAVE AND, AND THE STATEWIDE WATER CRISIS. 
          SO I APPRE, AS I SAID, I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT IS THERE A WAY IN WHICH YOU COULD LOOK AT COMMITTING TO A FURTHER WATER REDUCTION IN YOUR PLANNING AND INCLUDING THE HOTEL AND MAYBE THINGS THAT THEY COULD DO ON THEIR PROPERTY? WELL, TWO THINGS. 
          UH, THE FIRST THING I WOULD SAY IS THAT THE, THE MEASURES THAT I'VE ILLUSTRATED, I THINK ARE THE COMMITMENT. 
          UH, AND I GUESS THE OTHER TWO THINGS THAT I WOULD PUSH BACK ON THE, FIRST OF ALL, I'M SURE YOUR CITY ATTORNEY WOULD BE HAPPY TO TELL YOU THIS, IS THAT WE CAN, I DON'T THINK WE CAN LEGALLY MM-HMM. 
          , PULL THE HOTEL INTO THIS AND STIPULATE TO SOMETHING ON THE HOTEL, WHICH IS AN, AGAIN, A SEPARATE PROPERTY THAT IS NOT THE SUBJECT OF THIS APPLICATION AND STIPULATE TO SOMETHING ON THE HOTEL FOR THE SAKE OF THIS APPROVAL. 
          UH, WE'RE STIPULATING TO THE PARKING, THE HOTEL'S, MAKING A AGREEMENT WITH YOU ON PARKING THAT'S RELATED TO THE SHARED PARKING BETWEEN THE TWO, WHICH CAN BE PART OF A CROSS PARKING AGREEMENT. 
          BUT STIPULATING TO A WATER REDUCTION IN AN, IN A SEPARATE ENTITY, UH, IS CERTAINLY NOT SOMETHING I WOULD BE COMFORTABLE DOING FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE. 
          BUT, BUT BEYOND THAT, AND, AND AGAIN, THIS GOES BACK TO WE'RE, WE'RE ILLUSTRATING OUR COMMITMENT AND PUTTING FORWARD OUR COMMITMENT THROUGH PROACTIVE MEASURES TO MINIMIZE THE WATER CONSUMPTION. 
          AND I GUESS JUST AS A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT, I WOULD, I WOULD URGE THE COUNCIL TO CONSIDER WHETHER THEY WOULD GIVE SOMETHING THAT HAS AN OSTENSIBLY HIGHER WATER USE, BUT MAY NOT AS OBVIOUS LIKE A RESTAURANT, AND WHETHER OR NOT THAT WOULD BE GIVEN THE SAME LEVEL OF SCRUTINY, UH, THAT THE POOLS ARE BEING GIVEN IN THIS CASE. 
          WELL, YOU KNOW, WE ONLY PASSED OUR SUSTAINABILITY, OUR CLIMATE ACTION PLAN A YEAR AGO. 
          SO EVERYTHING NOW HAS A DIFFERENT LENS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. 
          SO MAYBE TWO YEARS AGO THAT WOULDN'T HAVE COME UP AS AN ISSUE. 
          BUT FROM THE TIME WE PASSED THE CLIMATE ACTION PLAN AND OUR COMMITMENT TO REDUCE, UH, USAGE, YOU KNOW, AND, UH, BOTH CARBON EMISSIONS AND, AND OTHER USES TO PROMOTE SUSTAINABILITY, WE LOOK AT EVERYTHING DIFFERENTLY NOW. 
          SO YOUR TIMING, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE FITTING INTO A POST CLIMATE ACTION PLAN WINDOW RATHER THAN A PRE-LIM ACTION PLAN WINDOW. 
          AND SO, YES, THE ANSWER IS YES, A NEW RESTAURANT WOULD GO THROUGH THAT SAME SCRUTINY ON, I GUESS, THE FA THE LAST THING THAT I WOULD POINT OUT IS IF, SINCE THAT IS PART OF THE ANALYSIS THAT WAS UNDERTAKEN, UH, IN ORDER FOR THE PROJECT TO GET TO THIS POINT, UH, THE, AGAIN, THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT STAFF THAT YOU HIRE AND YOU PAY TO EVALUATE PROJECTS AND, AND PROVIDE YOU, YOU WITH AN OPINION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE COMPLYING YOUR COMMUNITY PLAN, THE CLIMATE ACTION PLAN, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. 
          AND I, AGAIN, I DIDN'T, FOR THE SAKE OF TIME, I DIDN'T SHOW IT, BUT I, I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO LOOK AT THE VERY LAST PARAGRAPH OF THE STAFF REPORT THAT WENT BEFORE THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, WHICH LAYS OUT IN PAINSTAKING DETAIL THAT THIS PROJECT, UH, COMPLIES WITH AND MEETS EVERY ELEMENT OF THE ANALYSIS THAT IS REQUIRED FOR A DEVELOPMENT REVIEW APPROVAL THAT INCLUDES YOUR COMMUNITY ACT, YOUR, YOUR CLIMATE ACTION PLAN, YOUR COMMUNITY PLAN, YOUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND THAT IT, THEY, WE HAVE MEET, MET, OR EXCEEDED EVERY ELEMENT OF THAT. 
          OH, MAYBE WE CAN HEAR FROM ALICIA AT SOME POINT. 
          I DON'T 
          [01:00:01]
KNOW IF THAT'S PART OF THIS PROCESS OR NOT. 
          COUNSEL, YEAH. 
          MR. MAYOR AND COUNSEL, YOU CAN ASK ANY MEMBER OF STAFF ANY QUESTIONS IF YOU WANTED TO. 
          ALICIA, I'M GONNA PUT YOU ON THE SPOT HERE. 
          GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. MAYOR, VICE MAYOR. 
          COUNSEL, SIR. 
          UM, WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ABOUT THIS PROJECT IS THAT KURT WILL HAVE TO TELL YOU ABOUT THE RIGHTS THAT THIS GENTLEMAN HERE HAS BEEN DESCRIBING. 
          CAN YOU PLEASE REMIND ME YOUR NAME, SIR? I'M BEN. 
          SORRY. 
          BEN. 
          BEN. 
          BEN. 
          WHAT'S YOUR LAST NAME? TATE. 
          TATE. 
          MR. TATE HAS BEEN DESCRIBING, BUT WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO ASK HIM TO DO RIGHT NOW IS STATE FOR OUR RESIDENTS WHAT THE TONAL ANNUAL WATER USAGE FOR THIS PROJECT RIGHT NOW WOULD BE. 
          BECAUSE YOU TALKED ABOUT ABOUT WATER PER MINUTE AND DIFFERENT INTRODUCTIONS AND YOUR POOL, BUT YOU NEVER DIRECTLY STATED THAT FOR OUR RESIDENTS. 
          SO CAN YOU PLEASE QUANTIFY THAT FOR US? NO, I DON'T BELIEVE I HAVE A YEARLY ESTIMATE. 
          I BELIEVE I HAVE A, AN AN AVERAGE DAY ESTIMATE, MEANING THE AMOUNT OF WATER WE CONSUME OVER A PERIOD OF A DAY. 
          OKAY. 
          THAT WILL WORK FOR ME. 
          I BELIEVE THAT IF CARRIE, IF WE CAN GO TO THE LAST, ACTUALLY, I THINK IT'S 11, 11,395, I BELIEVE IS THE NUMBER GALLONS PER DAY. 
          AND ONE OF MY TEAM MEMBERS PLEASE DO THE MATH FOR THROUGH. 
          THE OTHER THINGS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ABOUT THIS PROJECT IS IT'S 4 MILLION, BY THE WAY, 4 MILLION GALLONS ANNUALLY. 
          SO JUST FOR THE RECORD, 4 MILLION GALLONS, ANNUAL GALLONS ANNUALLY OF USAGE FOR THIS. 
          UM, I WOULD LIKE TO ECHO SOME OF THE SENTIMENT THAT I'VE HEARD FROM COUNCIL IN THE PUBLIC THAT WE ARE STILL IN A DROUGHT IN THIS AREA, UM, CLIMATE PROFILES FOR THIS AREA PROJECT THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO BE IN A DROUGHT FOR A VERY LONG TIME, AND THAT MORE ANALYSIS IS NEEDED TO REALLY ADEQUATELY UNDERSTAND OUR GROUNDWATER AND WHAT CAPACITY WE HAVE FOR THAT IN THE FUTURE. 
          UM, WITH THAT BEING SAID, I WOULD URGE YOU TO CONSIDER THE BENEFITS THAT THIS HOTEL IS SAYING THAT THEY'RE GONNA PROVIDE FOR OUR COMMUNITY WHEN WHAT THE COMMUNITY REALLY NEEDS IS RESOURCES TO TAKE CARE OF ITSELF. 
          I'M HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS THAT WE HAVE FURTHER AS TO WHAT THE CAP ACTUALLY SAYS ON THIS POINT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          COULD YOU MM-HMM. 
          , I WOULD JUST LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION, CLARIFY A POINT. 
          I THOUGHT I SAW J TODAY IN AN EARLIER SLIDE. 
          IT WAS 38,000 7 7 7 GALLONS PER DAY, AND THIS SLIDE SAYS 11,000 WHATEVER GALLONS PER 38,000 WAS THE WATER ESTIMATE FROM THE 2008 PROJECT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          OKAY. 
          CAN I ASK A FOLLOW UP AS WELL? I BELIEVE IT'S IN THE PACKET, BUT I DON'T, CAN'T FIND IT. 
          38,000 GALLONS OF WATER A DAY. 
          THAT'S NOT EVAPORATION. 
          SO WHERE IS THAT WATER GOING AGAIN? THE DRAIN, THE 38,777 NUMBERS FROM THE 2008 PROJECT, NOT OURS. 
          OKAY. 
          WHAT IS THE ACTUAL AMOUNT OF WATER THAT IS PER DAY THAT'S EXPECTED TO BE USED? 11,395. 
          OKAY. 
          11TH. 
          WHERE IS THAT GOING? OH, IT, IT'S RIGHT HERE IN THE TABLE OF MR. MAYOR. 
          SO, SO 5,350 OF THAT IS BUILDING ONE, WHICH IS WHERE THE RESTAURANT IS, WHICH IS WHERE ONE OF THE POOLS IS. 
          UH, AND THE, THE LARGEST BUILDING OF THE PROPERTY. 
          2000, SORRY. 
          WHERE'S THE NUMBER? UM, 2,305 GALLONS OF THAT IS TWO ACRES OF ZEROSCAPE LANDSCAPING. 
          SO JUST WATERING. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          LET ME BE CLEAR. 
          THE POOL, THE WATER FROM THE POOL IS JUST EVAPORATING OR THEY OVERFLOWING AND GOING THROUGH A DRAIN? I MEAN, I JUST WANNA BE CLEAR, 70% OF IT IS EVAPORATION. 
          OKAY. 
          THAT'S WHAT I, I, BECAUSE I KNOW OF SOME POOLS THAT ACTUALLY DRAIN RIGHT PER DAY. 
          AND I WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT PUTTING THAT INTO, INTO OUR WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT, WHICH I DON'T BELIEVE WE ARE. 
          BUT I JUST WANNA RE-ASK ME THAT QUESTION. 
          I WANT, I WANT TO CLARIFY. 
          UNDERSTOOD. 
          SO, MR. MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, COUNSEL, MY JOB FOR YOU IS TO DO MY DUE DILIGENCE AND ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS. 
          OKAY. 
          SO WHAT I WANTED TO KNOW FROM THE APPLICANT'S COUNSEL IS THE ESTIMATED ANNUAL USAGE OF WATER, WHICH SOUNDS TO ME HIGHER THAN THE 2008 PROJECT, WHICH WE SHOULD NOT BE COMPARING IT TO BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WATER IN TODAY'S WORLD. 
          YEAH. 
          ADDITIONALLY, THERE WERE A LOT OF AC, THERE WERE A LOT OF THINGS MENTIONED HERE THAT I WANNA DO MORE DOJO ON, SPECIFICALLY THE POOL DESIGN AND WHAT KIND OF ESG RATING OR SUSTAINABILITY CERTIFICATIONS THAT POOL HAS BECAUSE YOU RELIED ON IT HEAVILY TO JUSTIFY YOUR WATER USAGE. 
          OKAY. 
          COUNCILOR FURMAN HAS A QUESTION FOR YOU. 
          YES, SIR. 
          I JUST WANTED TO PULL AN OLD COUNSELOR, LAMPKIN OUT OF THE HAT HERE IN  11,000, WHATEVER THAT NUMBER IS. 
          I CAN'T READ IT FROM MY SEAT, BUT I DID THE MATH BEFORE. 
          IT'S 4.2 MILLION GALLONS PER YEAR. 
          AND THE, AND, AND THAT'S CORRECT. 
          THE OLD PROJECT OF 38,000 
          [01:05:01]
WOULD'VE BEEN 14, 14 MILLION GALLONS PER YEAR. 
          BUT NONETHELESS, WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE. 
          I JUST DID THE SAME. 
          THIS ONE IS 4.2 MILLION GALLONS A YEAR. 
          OKAY. 
          COUNCIL WILLIAMSON. 
          AND WHERE IS THAT LISTED AS A REQUIREMENT FOR APPROVAL OF, OF THIS PROJECT, THE WATER USE AND SUSTAINABILITY? I, COUNSELOR WILLIAMSON. 
          I STATED THAT I WOULD LET KURT SPEAK TO WHAT RIGHTS THE DEVELOPERS HAVE FOR THIS PROJECT. 
          I'M ONLY ASKING QUESTIONS FOR CLARIFICATION, SO NO, I UNDERSTAND. 
          I WASN'T NECESSARILY ASKING IT OF VIEW. 
          I WAS ASKING IT OF, OF OUR STAFF OR KURT IF KURT THINKS HE'S THE RIGHT ONE TO ANSWER. 
          SO, SO HE USUALLY IS MR. MAYOR AND COUNSEL THE, THE CAP, ALTHOUGH THE PLAN DOES HAVE TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE COMMUNITY ACTION PLAN, THE COMMUNITY, OR THE CLIMATE ACTION PLAN, THE CLIMATE ACTION PLAN DOESN'T CONTAIN ANY SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS, UH, OR RESTRICTIONS ON WATER USAGE, UH, OR WHAT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OR ANY OF THOSE, ANYTHING ALONG THOSE LINES. 
          AND, AND IS THE APPLICANT SUPPOSED TO MEET THAT REQUIREMENT, OR IS APPLICANT SUPPOSED TO MEET THE REQUIREMENT OF WHAT SOMEONE THINKS THE REQUIREMENT SHOULD BE? THE APPLICANTS, UH, REQUIRED TO COMPLETE COMPLY WITH THE LDC AND THE APPROVAL CRITERIA, WHICH ARE OUTLINED IN THE STAFF REPORT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          OKAY. 
          DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE A QUESTION FOR ALICIA? YES. 
          ALICIA, YOU JUST SAID A MOMENT AGO THAT YOU WANTED THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THAT, BUT DID YOU NOT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THAT COUNSELOR? KINAL, CAN YOU PLEASE CLARIFY WHAT, WHAT THAT IS REPORTED? WHAT WAS PASSED ON TO YOU FOR YOUR INPUT FROM YOUR, YOU AND YOUR STAFF AND YOUR OFFICE? UM, WE PARTICIPATED IN THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW PROCESS A WHILE BACK. 
          I CAN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHAT TIMEFRAME THAT WAS. 
          WE DID MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS. 
          WE DID NOT RECEIVE ANY FEEDBACK ON THOSE, NOR DID THE DEVELOPER REACH OUT TO US FOR ANY GUIDANCE ON HOW TO BETTER ALIGN WITH OUR CLIMATE ACTION PLAN AND OUR GOALS FOR THE CITY. 
          AND YOU MADE A RECOMMENDATION ON THIS TO COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT STAFF? YES, MA'AM. 
          AND YOU MADE A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION OR A NEGATIVE RECOMMENDATION? WE MADE A NEUTRAL RECOMMENDATION WITH, UM, SUGGESTIONS ON HOW THEY CAN MAKE IMPROVEMENTS. 
          THANK YOU. 
          YES, MA'AM. 
          OKAY. 
          AND WHAT WERE THOSE SUGGESTIONS? AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL. 
          UM, THEY WERE GENERAL SUGGESTIONS ABOUT PARTICIPATING IN APSS, UM, ENERGY SAVINGS PROGRAMS FOR COMMERCIAL UTILITIES. 
          UM, THERE WERE SUGGESTIONS ABOUT WHAT WATER REDUCTION STRATEGIES. 
          UM, I CAN'T REMEMBER ALL OF THEM OFF MY TOP. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , TOP OF MY HEAD. 
          I'D HAVE TO SEE THE DOCUMENT, BUT I KNOW THAT WE DID PUT IN THE, UM, A LOT OF RECOMMENDATIONS. 
          WE WERE NEVER CONTACTED ABOUT HOW TO COMPLY WITH ANY OF 'EM. 
          DID YOU RECEIVE THOSE? BEN, UM, VICE MARY PLU, UH, MY FIRM WITH YOU, MORRIS, WE WERE ONLY BROUGHT IN AT THE APPELLATE STAGE OF THIS CASE. 
          SO WE WERE NOT INVOLVED. 
          THANK YOU. 
          HAVE A COMMENT. 
          YOU HAVE TO PLEASE UP IF YOU GONNA ADD TO IT. 
          IS THAT THE OWNER? YEAH. 
          AND JUST YOUR NAME AND YOUR, YOUR REP, YOUR, WHAT YOU DO? YEAH. 
          WILLIAM MERWIN ARCHITECT FOR THE PROJECT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO WE DID RECEIVE THE RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT IT WAS JUST MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THOSE WERE RECOMMENDATIONS. 
          SOME OF THEM WE ACTUALLY DO INTEND TO FOLLOW, LIKE PERMEABLE PAVING, FOR EXAMPLE. 
          WE'D LOVE TO USE PERMEABLE PAVING AS LONG AS IT COMPLIES WITH THE, THE CIVIL REQUIREMENTS AND STANDARDS. 
          UM, SO THAT WAS SORT OF OUR UNDERSTANDING WAS THESE ARE RECOMMENDATIONS, AND SINCE SOME OF THEM WE WERE ALREADY PLANNING ON COMPLYING WITH AND, AND UTILIZING, WE DIDN'T SEE A REASON TO SORT OF CONTINUE ANY DISCUSSION IN THAT, IN THAT DIRECTION. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          I HAVE A QUESTION, CARRIE. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , HEARING ALL THAT, AND YOU HAVE ALL THIS INFORMATION, YOU STILL PROVIDED APPROVAL FROM STAFF? YES. 
          WE RECOMMENDED APPROVAL. 
          UM, I DO HAVE THE SUSTAINABILITY COMMENTS, AND LIKE ALICIA SAID, THERE ARE COMMENTS ABOUT PARTICIPATING IN APS, SOME APS PROGRAMS RECOMMENDING SOME SOLAR, INCLUDING EV CHARGING, UM, ACCORD. 
          UH, UM, THERE WAS A, THERE'S A COMMENT ABOUT TRAILHEAD SHUTTLES. 
          UM, SO HAVING A LOCATION FOR THAT, UM, POTENTIALLY A, IF THEY WERE GOING TO BE BUILDING ANY HOUSING, WHETHER IT COULD BE AFFORDABLE HOUSING OR NOT, THERE WAS ONE COMMENT ABOUT WATER CONSERVATION, UM, AND MAKING SURE THEY'RE USING LOW FLOW FIXTURES, NATIVE PLANTS, RECYCLING, COMPOST, AND SUSTAINABLE BUILDING STANDARDS. 
          AND THOSE ARE RECOMMENDATIONS. 
          SO, RECOMMENDATIONS. 
          YES. 
          THANK YOU. 
          KURT. 
          WE STILL HAVE, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT RECOMMENDATIONS OR RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT THEY, THEY MEET ALL, UH, BY, BY RIGHTS. 
          THEY'RE, THEY'RE MEETING THE RECOMMENDATIONS BY LAW, CORRECT? YOU MEAN FOR THE WATER? NOT THE RECOMMENDATIONS. 
          RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT, BUT THEY'RE FULFILLING. 
          WE, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE MUCH TO SAY ABOUT THE WATER USAGE ON THE POOL. 
          SO YEAH, MR. MR. MAYOR AND COUNSEL, UH, STAFF HAS REVIEWED THIS, AND I DON'T HAVE A, A 
          [01:10:01]
DIFFERENT OPINION THAN STAFF THAT THEY MEET ALL THE APPROVAL CRITERIA. 
          I FIGURED. 
          OKAY. 
          JUST, JUST FOR THE PUBLIC TO HEAR. 
          SO I, OKAY. 
          NEXT, UM, QUESTION AND, UH, PETE, YOU SURE? I'LL, I'LL GO FOR A BIT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU, MAYOR. 
          UM, I, WELL, LET'S SEE. 
          I WILL START, MR. TATE, BY JUST BRINGING TO YOUR ATTENTION, PERHAPS A, PERHAPS AN ERROR IN YOUR, UH, MEMO THAT YOU WROTE FOR THIS, UM, HEARING. 
          AND THAT, UH, YOU STATE, I GOTTA FIND MY NOTE HERE, THE ABEL, THE, AND I'M QUOTING FROM PAGE TWO OF YOUR MEMO, THE ABA, THE ABEL SPAS, AND NORDIC THERMO THERAPY EXPERIENCE IS UNIQUELY SO DID TO SEDONA. 
          AND THE ONLY ONE OF THE KIND IN THE STATE. 
          I WOULD JUST BET THAT THE FOLKS AT THE HIGH COUNTRY MOTOR LODGE AND FLAGSTAFF, WHICH DOES BILL ITSELF AS ARIZONA'S FIRST NORDIC SPA, MIGHT DISPUTE THAT CLAIM. 
          . 
          SO JUST FOR THE RECORD, UM, I'D LIKE TO START WITH WATER AGAIN. 
          SOME MORE, UH, ISSUES ON WATER. 
          AND I THINK Y YOU MADE A CLAIM THAT THE P NZ HEARING FOCUSED PRINCIPALLY ON THE POOL USE THE POOLS AND THE WATER USE OF THE POOL. 
          AND I WOULD DISPUTE THAT A LITTLE BIT. 
          I THINK THAT THE P AND Z HEARING WAS REALLY ABOUT THE PROJECT. 
          AND THE PROJECT IS 4.2 MILLION GALLONS OF WATER A YEAR. 
          SO IT WAS MORE THAN JUST THAT. 
          AND, AND I WILL SAY THAT I LEARNED SOME NEW THINGS TONIGHT ABOUT THE EFFICIENCY OF THE POOL. 
          UH, AND HAD YOU PRESENTED THAT AT P AND Z, THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, COLORED THE CONVERSATION A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY. 
          SO, UH, BUT OF THOSE, UH, EFFICIENCY ELEMENTS THAT YOU HAVE, THE FILTERS AND ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT YOU LISTED, WHICH WERE IMPRESSIVE TO ME, ARE THOSE, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT POOL DESIGN STANDARDS ARE IN, IN EXISTENCE, BUT DO THOSE GO ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT IS ACTUALLY REQUIRED IN THE POOL DESIGN, LDC, WHOEVER, , WHEREVER THAT MAY EXIST OR, OR WHATNOT, ARE THESE ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, IMPROVEMENTS ON WATER USE ABOVE AND BEYOND THE MINIMUM THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED BY STANDARDS OF THE INDUSTRY? UH, COUNCIL MEMBER FERMAN? IT'S A GOOD QUESTION. 
          AND YES. 
          UM, AND, AND IT, I THINK IT'S REALLY ILLUSTRATED BY SOME OF THE BULLETS IN THE SLIDE, WHICH COMPARE THE FILTRATION EFFICIENCY OF A, OF REGENERA REGENERATIVE FILTER, FOR EXAMPLE, TO A TRADITIONAL SAND FILTER. 
          YEP. 
          AND IT'S REALLY JUST ABOUT HOW MUCH MONEY THE DEVELOPER WANTS TO SPEND TO SAVE MONEY AND SAVE WATER DOWN. 
          CUZ ULTIMATELY WATER COSTS MONEY. 
          YEP. 
          AND SOME POOL DEVELOPERS DON'T HAVE THE FORESIGHT TO INVEST UP FRONT IN STUFF THAT DOES COST MORE MONEY. 
          THOSE TYPES OF, UH, CENT CENTRIFUGAL PRE-FILTERS AND REGENERATIVE REGENERATIVE FILTERS DO COST MORE MONEY. 
          THOSE SYSTEMS ARE MORE EXPENSIVE, BUT THEY LEAD TO SAVINGS DOWN THE LINE, BOTH IN TERMS OF WATER USAGE AND ENERGY EFFICIENCY. 
          SO YES, THEY ARE MORE EXPENSIVE THAN MORE CONVENTIONAL POOL FILTRATION SYSTEMS, JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE MORE EXPENSIVE TO MAKE. 
          THEY'RE, UH, THE, THE FILTER SYSTEMS, THOSE REGENERATIVE FILTERS DO COST MORE CONSIDERABLY MORE MONEY. 
          UM, BUT AGAIN, IT'S JUST ABOUT HOW MUCH MONEY THE DEVELOPER'S WILLING TO WHOEVER'S BUILDING THE POOL IS WILLING TO INVEST UP FRONT. 
          RIGHT. 
          FOR THOSE SAVINGS DOWN THE LINE. 
          NOW, SINCE IT'S REALLY THE FIRST TIME WE'VE HEARD THIS INFORMATION, THAT INFORMATION WASN'T IN THE PACKETS TO MY  KNOWLEDGE. 
          AND ALL THE TIMES I'VE READ THROUGH THE PACKET, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT. 
          IS THIS A A COMMITMENT? IS IT IN HOW DO WE KNOW THAT? WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND BETWEEN NOW AND THEN? IS THAT POSSIBLE? IS THAT ALLOWED? UM, CUZ I'M LOOKING TO CARRY TO TELL, TEACH ME HOW OUR PROCESS WORKS WHEN A PERSON MAKES A CLAIM AND A STATEMENT, BUT IT WASN'T IN THE PACKET, HOW DO WE RELY UPON IT? SO I CAN FILL IN THAT. 
          SO, UM, MR. MAYOR, COUNSEL, THE, THE LDC STATES THAT ANY REPRESENTATIONS MADE AT, UH, WONDERFUL PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE A PUBLIC BODY, UM, THEY'RE, THEY'RE HELD TO THOSE STANDARDS. 
          SO IF THEY'RE SAYING THEY WILL DO THOSE THINGS, THEN THEY, THEY WILL HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THOSE IN. 
          RIGHT. 
          WELL, I THINK THAT'S SHOWN. 
          YOU'VE DONE SOME, YEAH. 
          SOME, UH, PROGRESS IN, IN THE POOL WATER USE. 
          BUT HOW ABOUT THE RESTAURANT? ANY, YOU HAVEN'T TALKED TO US ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE DOING IN THE RESTAURANT. 
          ARE YOU DOING ANY, NOT PUTTING GLASSES OF WATER OUT BEFORE PEOPLE ASK FOR 'EM? ARE YOU DOING ANYTHING WITH REDUCED USE WATER, UH, UH, USE IN, IN, IN THE RESTAURANT IN GENERAL, FROM CLEANING, ULTRA EFFICIENT, BENEFICIAL REUSE OF USE OF THE GRAY WATER. 
          ARE WE DOING RAINWATER CAPTURE AND USE FOR YOUR ZEROSCAPE? I ANY OTHER STATEMENTS THAT YOU'D LIKE TO ADD OR THINGS 
          [01:15:01]
THAT YOU'D LIKE TO SAY THAT THIS PROJECT IS DOING? NOT THAT I'M FAMILIAR WITH, BUT I COULD, I WOULD REALLY TURN TO THE ARCHITECT FOR ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION. 
          BUT, AND WHAT I WILL SAY, JUST AS FAR AS, NO, JUST , JUST VERY QUICKLY, UM, JUST BEFORE I FORGET, UM, A AS FAR AS THE, THE POOL, JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME BACKGROUND, COUNCILOR MEMBER, COUNCIL MEMBER FERMAN, AS FAR AS THANK YOU. 
          WHERE THIS INFORMATION ABOUT THE POOL EQUIPMENT CAME FROM WHEN WE WERE BROUGHT, UH, INTO THIS DEVELOPMENT AFTER THE, THE P AND Z HEARING, AND I HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE DISCUSSION OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, THE VERY FIRST THING I SAID WAS, WHO'S DESIGNING YOUR POOLS AND WHAT ARE THEY DOING? AND SO THEY PUT ME IN TOUCH WITH THE FOLKS AT AQUA DESIGN, AND ONE OF 'EM IS THE, THE PRINCIPAL IS HERE IF YOU'D LIKE TO TALK TO 'EM. 
          UH, BUT THAT WAS INFORMATION THAT THEY GAVE TO ME AS FAR AS WHAT THEY WERE INTENDING TO USE, UH, FOR, FOR THEIR POOL SYSTEM. 
          SO IT, IT, IT'S NOT STUFF THAT WE SIMPLY PULLED OFF THE INTERNET AND SAID, OH, THIS LOOKS LIKE IT'LL SAVE SOME WATER. 
          UH, THIS IS WHEN I DIRECTLY WENT TO THE POOL DESIGNER AND SAID, WHAT'S THE EQUIPMENT THAT YOU'RE USING THAT'LL HELP US SAVE WATER? THIS WAS THE STUFF THAT THEY GAVE ME. 
          OKAY. 
          SO NO ADDITIONAL, I'M SORRY. 
          YEAH, THAT'S FINE. 
          YEP. 
          I WAS GONNA SPEAK TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE, THE RESTAURANT AND WATER USE. 
          I WOULD SAY A LOT OF THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THE SPECIFICS ARE PLANNED ON BEING ADDRESSED IN DURING THE PERMITTING AND PERMIT SUBMITTAL PHASE, WHICH IS WHERE YOU WOULD TYPICALLY GET INTO A LOT OF THE DETAIL THERE, SINCE IT WASN'T NECESSARILY A CONDITION OF ZONING APPROVAL RELATED TO THE LDC. 
          UM, BUT JUST GENERALLY WHEN DISCUSSING SUSTAINABILITY, I MEAN, I THINK THE PROJECT AS A WHOLE, UM, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. 
          I MEAN, IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT GOAL OF THE PROJECT. 
          I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WATER IS ONE COMPONENT OF SUSTAINABILITY AND A VERY IMPORTANT ONE FOR SURE. 
          THERE'S NO QUESTION, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER COMPONENTS AS WELL. 
          AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE LOT COVERAGE SHOULD REALLY BE EMPHASIZED AS, I MEAN, A HUGE MEASURE AND JUST THE BUILDING STRUCTURES IN GENERAL, WHEN, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT TOTAL PICTURE OF SUSTAINABILITY, ENERGY USE, WATER USE, MATERIAL USAGE, I MEAN, THE FOOTPRINT ITSELF IS, IS SMALL. 
          IT'S, YOU KNOW, THE LOT COVERAGE IS MUCH LESS THAN WHAT'S ALLOWED, UH, PER ZONING. 
          AND, UM, YOU KNOW, IF YOU THINK OF ALL THE MATERIALS AND COMPONENTS THAT GO INTO THESE BUILDINGS AND STRUCTURES, UM, I THINK THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT SHOULD ALSO BE CONSIDERED WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE TOTAL PICTURE OF SUSTAINABILITY FOR THE PROJECT. 
          THANKS. 
          AND ACTUALLY, BEFORE, WHILE I'M STILL ON THAT THOUGHT, CARRIE, THERE'S A SLIDE AFTER THE QUESTION SLIDE THAT I, I, I DIDN'T WANT TO GET INTO UNLESS THE QUESTION CAME UP, BUT I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY USEFUL NOW. 
          KEEP GOING MORE, MORE. 
          KEEP GOING. 
          YOU'LL, YOU'LL SEE IT WHEN YOU GET POWER CONSERVATION. 
          THERE WE GO. 
          SO, UH, THERE ARE SOME ADDITIONAL MEASURES THAT THEY'RE TAKING AS PART OF THIS POOL DESIGN THAT WILL ACTUALLY DO GENERATE CONSIDERABLE SAVINGS ON THE ENERGY SIDE AS WELL. 
          I KNOW THAT THE, YOUR CLIMATE OFFICER HAD HAD MENTIONED ENROLLING IN THE APS PROGRAM, AMONG OTHER THINGS FOR ENERGY TO SUSTAINABILITY. 
          UH, BUT THE, THE HEATING SYSTEM AND THE POOL PUMPS ARE THAT, THAT THEY ARE USING BOTH GENERATE SIGNIFICANT ENERGY SAVINGS OVER TRADITIONAL PUMPS AND, AND, AND, UM, AND, UH, SORRY, HEATING SYSTEMS. SO FOR EXAMPLE, THE, THE VARIABLE SPEED POOL PUMP, THE, THE BIGGEST FACTOR, AND I KNEW NONE OF THIS BEFORE I STARTED DIVING INTO THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY OF POOL PUMP SYSTEMS. THE BIGGEST DRIVING FACTOR IS THE RPM. 
          AND SO SIMPLY BY USING A POOL PUMP THAT CAN VARY IN SPEED, YOU CAN SAVE 58% POWER CONSUMPTION JUST BY REDUCING THE SPEED 25%. 
          AND SO THE, THE POOL PUMP SYSTEM THAT THEY'RE USING HAS FOUR PROGRAMMABLE SPEEDS. 
          THE LOWER IT GOES, THE LESS ENERGY IT USES, WHICH GIVES THEM THE ABILITY TO SAVE CONSIDERABLE ENERGY. 
          AND, AND IF YOU, IF YOU'VE EVER OWNED A HOME WITH A POOL, THE ABSOLUTE NUMBER ONE USER OF ELECTRICITY OR BIGGEST ITEM FOR ANY RESIDENTIAL PO HOME IS, IS THE POOL PUMP. 
          AND SO THIS ALLOWS THEM TO GENERATE CONSIDERABLE ENERGY SAVINGS JUST THERE. 
          YEP. 
          GOOD. 
          AND OUR SLIDES ALSO PART OF THE RECORD FOR PUBLIC HEARING, KURT, AND HE JUST MENTIONED THEM AS WELL. 
          BUT YES, EVERYTHING PRESENTED TO COUNCIL, INCLUDING SLIDES. 
          SO IN MY COMMENTS, I'M JUST GONNA TOUCH ON WHAT I WAS GO, WILL BE SAYING IN MY COMMENTS, BUT IT'S APPROPRIATE TO SAY THIS NOW, THAT PART OF MY MESSAGE HERE, PART OF MY CONCERN IS A NEW COUNCIL MEMBER IS TO SEND A MESSAGE OUT TO OUR DEVELOPER COMMUNITY THAT WHEN YOU'RE BRINGING PROJECTS TO US, IT'S REALLY BENEFICIAL FOR YOU GUYS TO TAKE CREDIT AND OWNERSHIP AND BE PROUD OF THESE EFFICIENCY THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING. 
          SO I'LL TURN THE, THE QUESTIONS BACK TO, UH, HOW ABOUT LEAD CERTIFICATION FOR THE BUILDINGS? UH, I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY UNLIKELY. 
          AND FRANKLY, THE REASON FOR THAT ISN'T BECAUSE THERE'S AN ISSUE WITH BUILDING TO A LEAD STANDARD MORE OFTEN THAN NOT MODERN BUILDINGS, JUST WITH THE, ALL OF THE EFFICIENCIES, THE EFFICIENCIES THAT YOU GET THROUGH MODERN BUILDING TECHNIQUES, UH, THERE'S WHAT YOU WOULD CALL, UH, LEAD QUALIFIED MORE OFTEN THAN NOT. 
          THE REASON THAT, AND I KNOW WILL WOULD SPEAK TO THIS AS WELL, LEAD CERTIFICATIONS ARE INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE, NOT BECAUSE BUILDING THEM AS EXPENSIVE, THE CERTIFICATION PROGRAM IS REALLY, REALLY EXPENSIVE. 
          SO WE'VE DONE A NUMBER OF, OF PROJECTS FOR A NUMBER OF DEVELOPERS, AND I'M SURE WILL HAS TOO, WHERE YOU BUILD TO A LEAD STANDARD, 
          [01:20:01]
BUT YOU'RE NOT GETTING A LEAD CERTIFICATION BECAUSE IT'S AN EXTRAORDINARY EXPENSE. 
          YEAH. 
          THESE ARE COMPLICATED ISSUES. 
          I'M SURE ALICIA WOULD LOVE TO TALK TO US ALL FOR AN HOUR ABOUT LEAD CERTIFICATION, BUT THIS IS PROBABLY NOT THE APPROPRIATE TIME TO DO THAT. 
          UM, BUT YEAH, AGAIN, TO MY POINT IS THAT IT'S IMPRESSIVE WHEN SOMEBODY DOES TAKE ON LEAD CERTIFICATION BECAUSE IT SHOWS THAT THEY'RE REALLY COMMITTED TO SOME SUSTAINABILITY ISSUES AND THEY'RE GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND. 
          AND I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'RE NOT COMMITTING TO THAT TODAY. 
          UM, EXCUSE ME, WHILE I GO THROUGH MY LIST OF NOTES FROM MY LAST FEW DAYS REVIEW HERE. 
          UH, I I DID WANNA ASK A QUESTION. 
          YOU BROUGHT UP THE PERMEABLE PAVERS, AND MY RECOLLECTION FROM OUR P AND Z HEARING IS THAT YOU GUYS WERE SAYING NO TO THAT, THAT YOU WANTED, UH, IMPERVIOUS SURFACES BECAUSE IT WAS AN ADA A COMPLIANCE ISSUE. 
          HAVE YOU CHANGED YOUR POSITION ON THAT OR DID I MISUNDERSTAND OR MISCHARACTERIZE WHAT I REMEMBER? NO, GO AHEAD. 
          BECAUSE I, I'VE JUST GOTTA COMMENT BEFORE HE SAYS SOMETHING. 
          AND, AND IT GOES BACK TO THE PARKING ISSUE BECAUSE THESE ARE ACTUALLY INTERRELATED, BELIEVE IT OR NOT. 
          UM, WE ARE MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE PROVIDING ENOUGH PARKING THAT, THAT ACCOMMODATES THE SPA. 
          WE'LL GET TO PARKING IN A MINUTE. 
          NO, BUT THE REASON THAT I SAY THAT IS FOR EVERY ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACE WE PROVIDE, THAT'S MORE IMPERMEABLE SURFACE ON THE PROPERTY. 
          SURE. 
          AND IN BALANCING, UH, WHAT HAS VERY MUCH BEEN STATED AS A GOAL OF THIS CITY AND THIS COUNCIL OF REDUCING IMPERMEABLE SURFACES, RIGHT. 
          REDUCING THE AMOUNT OF BLACKTOP THAT WE'RE ADDING TO THIS PROPERTY WAS A PRIORITY. 
          YEP. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THERE'S A PARKING LOT QUESTION, BUT THERE'S ALSO A SIDEWALK, THE, THE PEDESTRIAN PATHS WITHIN THE PROJECT. 
          YEAH. 
          SO I THINK, UM, MAYBE WE'RE CONFUSING. 
          THE TWO IS IN THE PARKING AREA, WHEREVER WE'RE ALLOWED TO USE PERMEABLE PAVING, WE'RE CERTAINLY OPEN TO IT AS LONG AS IT COMPLIES WITH THE CIVIL REQUIREMENTS. 
          I THINK WE HAD SOME CONFLICTS THERE, WHICH IS WHY IT WASN'T SHOWN ALL AS INITIALLY AS PERIAL PAVING ON THE SITE PATHWAYS, THERE IS A, A, A PRIMARY PATHWAY THAT DOES REQUIRE ADA ACCESS. 
          SO IN THAT CASE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO MEET THE CERTAIN KIND OF, UH, UH, SURFACE REQUIREMENTS OF THAT. 
          SO WE WOULDN'T POTENTIALLY BE ABLE TO USE THE PERMEABLE IN THAT CASE. 
          BUT I THINK THAT'S THE CLARIFICATION. 
          SO, I MEAN, POINTS THEN BEGS THEN, I'M SORRY, THE QUESTION PROBABLY GOES TO STAFF SOMEWHERE THAT SOMEHOW WE'RE DOING OUR SHARED USE PADS ALL DECOMPOSED GRANITE WITH A LITTLE TREATMENT ON IT. 
          IT SEEMS TO BE, IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE PERVIOUS THAN CONCRETE. 
          SO HANDY. 
          CAN YOU ADDRESS THAT FOR US, PLEASE? OH, HE CAN DO THE ELECTRON. 
          HE'S IMPORTANT. 
           . 
          GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL, ANDY. 
          YEAH, SO A LOT OF OUR PATHS THAT WE'RE BUILDING THESE DAYS THROUGH THE STEPS PROGRAM, THEY ARE STABILIZED DE DECOMPOSED GRANITE, WHICH IS LESS IMPER IMPERMEABLE THAN CONCRETE. 
          IT'S NOT FULLY BECAUSE WE HAVE THAT STABILIZING COMPONENT IN IT. 
          BUT YES, IT'S, IT'S MORE, UM, YOU KNOW, IT ALLOWS PERMEABILITY, UM, MORE THAN CONCRETE WOOD. 
          SO IT IS A BETTER OPTION WHEN, WHEN YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH IT. 
          THE TRADE OFF TO THAT SOMETIMES IS THERE'S MORE, UH, MAINTENANCE INVOLVED AND UPKEEP WITH THOSE SURFACES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          SO WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO IMPLEMENT IT WHERE WE CAN, BUT ULTIMATELY THERE MAY BE AREAS THAT WE NEED TO CHANGE OUT WITH CONCRETE IF THEY'RE BECOMING, UH, TOO MUCH OF A, A MAINTENANCE PROBLEM. 
          SO, SURE, YEAH, THAT ALL MAKES SENSE. 
          BUT THEY ARE ADA COMPLIANT. 
          THAT'S WITH THAT STABILIZING COMPONENT TO IT, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT MAKES A ADA COMPLIANT. 
          OKAY. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT MY UNDERSTANDING OF THOSE TWO THINGS WERE CORRECT. 
          I'D LIKE TO TURN TO PARKING NOW A LITTLE BIT. 
          THIS IS PROBABLY THE TOUGHEST OF THE SUBJECTS FOR ME, AND I'VE GOT LOTS OF QUESTIONS HERE. 
          UM, BUT I'D LIKE TO UNDERSTAND FROM STAFF A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THIS PARKING AGREEMENT THAT'S UN OFFERED HERE. 
          IS THIS PARKING AGREEMENT, IS THE ABEL HOTEL GIVING UP SOME OF ITS PARKING FOR USE BY THE SPA? UM, NO, THERE WOULDN'T NECESSARILY BE, HERE'S THE 20 PARKING SPACES THAT ARE ASSIGNED TO THE SPA. 
          IT WOULD JUST BE THAT THE TWO WOULD SHARE PARKING AND THAT, UM, THERE WOULD BE SHARED USE THERE. 
          THE WAY THE PARKING AGREEMENT IN THE CODE IS WRITTEN IS THAT THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE SOMETHING IN PLACE SIGNED BY BOTH PROPERTY OWNERS, UM, AND ANY AMENDMENTS TO THAT, LIKE THE, THE CITY WOULD HAVE TO APPROVE AMENDMENTS TO A PARKING AGREEMENT. 
          AND SO IF SOMETHING WERE TO CHANGE IN THE FUTURE, UM, AND THEY WANTED TO ADJUST THAT, WE'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND RE-LOOK AT THE SITUATION IN JUST A QUICK COUNT. 
          UM, HOW MANY, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY HOTEL ROOMS THE HOTEL CURRENTLY HAS? 1 44. 
          1 44. 
          1 44. 
          1 44. 
          SO 
          [01:25:01]
JUST IN A QUICK COUNT. 
          THEY ARE, THEY DO HAVE MORE PARKING THAN WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR THE 144 HOTEL ROOMS. UM, THERE IS, YOU KNOW, A RESTAURANT THERE. 
          UM, WHEN WE LOOK AT HOTEL USES, THERE'S, HOTELS ARE A UNIQUE USE IN THAT OFTENTIMES THEIR PARKING LOTS ARE FULL OVERNIGHT, WHERE, UM, TYPICAL USES ARE FULL DURING THE DAY. 
          SO WE LOOK AT THAT TOO. 
          BUT RIGHT NOW THEY'RE JUST PROPOSING A REDUCTION BASED ON A SHARED USE, UM, OR SHARED CUSTOMERS. 
          YEP. 
          THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, THE HOTEL'S GONNA USE ALL THE PARKING AT NIGHT, THE SPA'S GONNA USE IT IN THE YEAH. 
          DURING THE DAY. 
          UM, BUT YEAH, THERE WAS A CHANGE TO THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE TWO PROPERTIES. 
          THEY COULD PROPOSE CHANGES AND WE WOULD LOOK AT THAT. 
          AND TO THE DIVORCE QUESTION , UM, IF THE ARABELLA HOTEL WERE TO DECIDE TO CHANGE HANDS, WOULD THAT AGREEMENT WOULD TRANSFER WITH THE TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP? YEAH. 
          AND IF THE, THE ARABELLA HOTEL DECIDED TO REDEVELOP AND TURN INTO SOMETHING ELSE, THEN AGAIN, IT COMES, THERE'S AN AGREEMENT HERE AND A CONVERSATION WILL BE BEGIN ABOUT WHAT TO DO IN THE FUTURE. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND THEN IF IT CAME TO WHERE THEY, YOU KNOW, AND I WOULD SAY THAT IF THE HOTEL, FOR SOME REASON, SOMEONE BOUGHT IT AND DECIDED A HOTEL'S NOT GOOD BUSINESS IN SEDONA ANYMORE, AND THEY WANNA REDEVELOP IT, THAT AGREEMENT IS PART OF THAT PROPERTY AS WELL. 
          SO IT WOULD BE PART OF A REVIEW FOR ANY CHANGE OF USE ON THAT PROPERTY. 
          AND THAT IT'S NOT JUST, IT'S NOT JUST A RESTRICTION ON THE SPA PROPERTY, IT'S A RESTRICTION ON THE HOTEL PROPERTY AS WELL. 
          YEP. 
          OKAY. 
          SO NOW ONTO THIS, UM, INTERNAL CAPTURE MODEL THAT WE'VE USED TO, YOU KNOW, APPROVE THE REDUCED PARKING REQUIREMENTS. 
          HAVE WE USED THIS IN ANOTHER PROJECT IN SEDONA? UM, THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER PROPERTIES THAT HAVE YOU, YOU WOULD GENERALLY SEE IT IN A SHOPPING CENTER OR SOMETHING WHERE THERE'S, UM, A COUPLE DIFFERENT USES WHERE SOMEONE WOULD BE PARKING AND GOING TO MULTIPLE USES? YEAH, I CAN'T THINK OF OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. 
          I KNOW THERE'S ONES WHERE WE'VE USED IT, UM, IN SOME, IN SOME PROJECTS WHERE THERE'S BEEN A QUESTION, AGAIN, AS THE APPLICANT HAD SAID, THERE IS A, THERE IS A KIND OF A, A, A BALANCE WHERE YOU DON'T WANNA BUILD TOO MUCH PARKING, BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO BUILD TOO LITTLE PARKING. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND IT'S REALLY HARD IN A PROCESS LIKE THIS TO REALLY UNDERSTAND THE NUMBER BECAUSE THE, THE USE DOESN'T EXIST YET. 
          SO THAT'S WHEN WE RELY ON THE, THE STANDARDS THAT ARE THE GENERALLY ACCEPTED STANDARDS. 
          IF THERE IS A CONCERN THAT IT'S NOT GONNA BE QUITE RIGHT. 
          THERE HAVE BEEN PROJECTS THAT HAVE BEEN PROVED WITH A CONDITION THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, IF ONCE THE HOTEL OPENS, IF THERE NOT THE HOTEL, SORRY, ONCE THE PROJECT OPENS, IF THERE'S A, IF IT COMES TO LIGHT THAT THERE'S NOT ENOUGH PARKING, THE APPLICANT IS, YOU KNOW, MUST WORK WITH STAFF TO BUILD ADDITIONAL PARKING OR TO ADJUST THEIR, YOU KNOW, METHOD OF OPERATION TO REDUCE PARKING DEMAND, OR, THERE'S OFTEN YEAH. 
          THOSE TYPES OF CONDITIONS ON PROJECTS IN THE PROJECTS THAT I CAN KIND OF THINK OF, WE'VE NEVER HAD TO GO BACK TO THOSE PROPERTY OWNERS AND SAY, YOU NEED TO BUILD MORE, MORE PARKING. 
          THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO FIGURE IT OUT WITHOUT, AND IS THAT A CONDITION IN THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT? IT'S NOT. 
          UM, IT'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE PARKING AGREEMENT THAT HAS A CONDITION. 
          UM, AND SO THE THOUGHT WAS THAT THAT'S, THAT WOULD BE SUFFICIENT. 
          AND IF YEP, THERE WAS SOMETHING WHERE THAT RELATIONSHIP DIDN'T EXIST ANYMORE, WE WOULD RE-LOOK AT IT. 
          BUT WE CAN ALWAYS ADD SOMETHING AS WELL. 
          WELL, MY CONCERN HERE IS THAT WE DON'T HEAD DOWN THE PATH OF A NEARBY NEIGHBORING PROJECT THAT'S GOT SOME PARKING AND TRAFFIC RELATED ISSUES. 
          AND, AND I WOULD MR. TATE, UH, IMPRESS UPON YOU THAT THE VISITORS TO SEDONA ARE IMMENSELY CREATIVE ON WHERE THEY WILL DECIDE TO PARK IF THEY CAN'T FIND PARKING. 
          AND, AND THERE IS A NEIGHBORHOOD CLOSE BY THAT ACTUALLY MIGHT BE, UH, LOCATION OF FIRST RESORT FOR, I MEAN, THEY MIGHT NOT LIKE WALKING TO THE SPA THAT FAR, BUT MY GUESS IS IF YOU'RE PAID BIG MONEY TO GET INTO A SPA AND YOU HAD A RESERVATION TO GET IN THERE, DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE A RESERVATION PROGRAM, BUT THEY MIGHT INFILTRATE THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND OR THE, THE, UH, CIRCLE K  AND, AND COUNCIL MEMBER FURMAN. 
          I HAVE THERE, THERE ARE TWO WAYS THAT THEY HAVE WITHOUT EVEN HAVING TO GO BACK TO THE CITY TO ADDRESS THIS, TO BACKSTOP AGAINST ANY PROBLEMS WHERE THEY MAY HAVE UNDER CALCULATED THEIR PARKING. 
          THE FIRST OF WHICH IS, AS CARRIE POINTED OUT, THERE IS ADDITIONAL PARKING, OVERFLOW PARKING AT THE HOTEL THAT THEY SHARE IN THE EVENT THAT THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH SPACES IN WHAT WE, YOU KNOW, CALL THE SPA PROPER. 
          RIGHT? SO THAT'S, THAT'S NUMBER ONE IS THAT 
          [01:30:01]
THERE, THERE IS SOME BACKFILL THERE THAT THEY'LL BE ABLE TO UTILIZE, UH, IN THE EVENT THAT THEY'RE USING, THAT THERE ARE MORE VISITORS THAN THE INTERNAL CAPTURE RATE HAD CALCULATED. 
          THE SECOND OF WHICH, AND, AND I WAS ACTUALLY JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS WITH THE HOTEL MANAGER WHO'S, WHO'S HERE, UH, AND IT'S SOMETHING THEY'RE ACTUALLY ALREADY CONSIDERING. 
          IT HASN'T GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE THEY WOULD ACTUALLY IMPLEMENT IT BECAUSE IT'S AN EXPENSIVE THING TO DO, BUT A LOT OF HOTELS ARE GOING TO VALET ONLY PARKING. 
          AND WHEN YOU VALET ONLY PARK, YOU CAN, YOU CAN UTILIZE YOUR PARKING AREAS MUCH MORE EFFICIENTLY BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO GET TO THEIR CARS IMMEDIATELY. 
          YEAH, I'VE SEEN THAT. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          SO CONTINUING DOWN MY INQUIRY ABOUT THE, UH, I KEEP FORGETTING THE, THE INTERNAL CAPTURE MODEL. 
          SO WE HAVEN'T HAD A LOT OF EXPERIENCE IN-HOUSE OF THESE PARTICULAR CALCULATIONS AND DOING IT, AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT OUR PROCESS, AND AGAIN MM-HMM. 
          , I'M GONNA ASK SOME QUESTIONS HERE THAT EXPOSE MY POTENTIALLY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE IN THIS AREA AND SOME INFORMATION THAT I HAVE THAT MAY BE INCORRECT, BUT I HAVE TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS. 
          SO I THINK THE PROCESS IS THAT IT'S REALLY THE APPLICANTS ENGINEERS THAT ARE DOING THIS ANALYSIS AND THEY PRESENT IT TO THE CITY, RIGHT? AND THE APPLICANTS ENGINEERS HERE, IF YOU WANNA ASK HIM QUESTIONS. 
          AWESOME. 
          UH, UH, AND SO THE, THE INTRIGUING QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE IS THAT MM-HMM. 
          , UH, PEOPLE HAVE SOME PEOPLE THAT I KNOW SHARED SOME INFORMATION TO ME ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT OF THESE, UH, INTERNAL CAPTURE MODELS IN THE, IN THE, IN THE IT, WHEN THEY DEVELOP THIS, PERHAPS I'M TALKING TO STAFF HERE, OR THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER THAT MAY KNOW THIS. 
          AND, UH, I'M AWARE OF A, UH, PROFESSIONAL REPORT THAT'S OUT THERE, AND I'M GONNA TRY AND CITE THIS SO I GET IT RIGHT. 
          IT'S THE NATIONAL COOPERATIVE HIGHWAY RESEARCH PROGRAM, N C H RRP REPORT 6 84, WHICH TALKS ABOUT HOW THIS, UH, UH, INTERNAL CAPTURE MODELS WERE CREATED AND PUT INTO THE ITT MANUALS. 
          AND I WASN'T ABLE TO REVIEW THE IT MANUAL BECAUSE IT TAKES MONEY TO DO THAT. 
          SO I'M RELYING, UH, WHAT I KNOW ON THIS REPORT THAT SAYS THESE INTERNAL CAPTURE MODELS WERE DEVELOPED REALLY NOT WITH A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF DATA. 
          IT WAS ONLY THREE OR FOUR PROJECTS IN FLORIDA WHEN THEY'RE FIRST DONE. 
          AND THEY WERE IN FACT, TRUE MIXED USE PROJECTS WHEN THEY WERE DEVELOPED. 
          BUT EVEN SO AT THAT TIME, THEY PUT SOME CAUTIONS OF THE USE ON THESE THINGS THAT SAID, YEP, THE, IT WAS A LIMITED DATA, BUT WE'RE ALLOWING THIS CALCULATION, BUT BEWARE THAT IT REALLY ONLY SHOULD BE USED ON A TRUE MIXED USE PROJECT AND ONLY FOR USES THAT ARE IN A CERTAIN NUMBER OF CATEGORIES. 
          AND THIS REPORT THAT I REFERENCED UPDATED THAT, AND THIS WAS, CAME OUTTA TEXAS AND THEY SAID, WE'RE TEXAS, WE CAN DO BETTER. 
          THEY DID A COUPLE MORE STUDIES, THEY ADDED SOME MORE DATA TO THE PROGRAM, BUT THEY STILL HAVE THE CAUTIONS ABOUT ONLY USE IT FOR A MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT PROJECT. 
          AND, AND THEY EXPANDED THE CATEGORIES BY SOME, I THINK THE, THAT REPORT CLAIMS THAT THERE'S SIX CATEGORIES, NONE OF WHICH ARE SPA. 
          AND SO I HEAR THAT INPUT AND I THINK ABOUT THIS ANALYSIS THAT WE DID, AND I WONDER IF IT WAS, YOU KNOW, DONE CORRECTLY AND UP TO THE STANDARDS WE'D LIKE TO HOLD OURSELVES TO. 
          AND MY CONCERN IS THAT IF THE INDUCED INTERNAL CAPTURE, I KEEP WANTING TO SAY INDUCED DEMAND, IT'S IF THE INTERNAL CAPTURE MODEL WAS IMPROPERLY APPLIED OR UNWISELY APPLIED, I'M NOT TRYING TO CAST DISPERSIONS ON ANYBODY HERE, BUT THEIR QUESTIONS, IF THE MODEL WAS NOT CORRECTLY APPLIED, THEN THE DEMAND FOR THE, WE WOULD'VE REQUIRED THE APPLICANT TO PRODUCE MORE PARKING, 38% MORE PARKING OR FIND A DIFFERENT AGREEMENT. 
          BUT IT ALSO IMPACTS THE TRAFFIC ANALYSIS THAT THEY'RE NOW 38% LESS CARS COMING TO THE PROJECT, AND THE TRAFFIC ANALYSIS MIGHT BE DIFFERENT. 
          SO IT'S TIME FOR SCHOOLING. 
          WHAT DID I GET WRONG? WHAT HAVE PEOPLE INFORMED ME IS INCORRECT. 
          I LOVED YOUR FEEDBACK. 
          THERE HE IS , UH, I'M NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO SCHOOL YOU COUNSELOR , UH, BY ANY MEANS. 
          UH, ANDREW BAIRD, KIMLEY HORN CIVIL ENGINEER ON THIS PROJECT. 
          AND AS, AS MOST ARE AWARE, WE'RE DOING A LOT OF THE, THE TRANSPORTATION PROJECTS HERE IN THE CITY. 
          UH, COUNSELOR, I, I THINK I READ THE SAME THING IN ITT WHERE IT, IT USED A, UH, A FLORIDA AS A, AS A STARTING POINT EXAMPLE. 
          AND I THINK IN BIG BOLD LETTERS HERE, IT SAYS, IF LOCAL DATA ON INTERNAL CAPTURE RATES BY PAIRED LAND USES CAN BE OBTAINED, THE LOCAL DATA MAY BE GIVEN PREFERENCE. 
          I THINK THAT WAS PROBABLY THE, THE CRUX OF YOUR QUESTION. 
          HAVE WE APPLIED THIS HERE IN SEDONA TO SEE IF, IF WHAT WE'RE USING IT IN FLORIDA ACTUALLY APPLIES HERE IN ARIZONA? UH, SO I'LL SAY THIS WITH ANY PROJECTIONS AND MODEL, IT'S ONLY, IT'S REALLY TRUTH CHECKED AFTER 
          [01:35:01]
IMPLEMENTATION. 
          WE'VE SEEN THAT ON THE TRANSPORTATION MASTER PLAN. 
          THE MODELS WE'RE PRESENTING TO CITY COUNCIL HERE ALMOST QUARTERLY, WHERE WE WE'RE MODELING TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY WITH THE DATA WE'RE GIVEN AND THE PROJECTIONS AND PAST CASE STUDIES AND PERCENTAGES AND, AND WE'RE PUTTING NUMBERS TO THAT AND MAKING PROJECTIONS. 
          BUT THE ONLY WAY WE CAN REALLY PROVE THOSE OUT IS, IS AFTER THE FACT, WHICH I FULLY RECOGNIZE THAT YOU'RE TAKING A LEAP OF FAITH HERE AND SAYING, DO I REALLY BELIEVE 38%? IS IT 40%? IS IT 35%? SO, YOU KNOW, AS, AS TRAFFIC ENGINEERS, WE, AGAIN, WE USE, WE USE CASE STUDIES AND WE USE OUR, OUR BEST NUMBERS FROM ITT AND PAST PROJECTS TO PUT THESE NUMBERS TOGETHER. 
          I CAN'T SPEAK TO SPECIFICS AGAIN IN NORTHERN ARIZONA, BUT I DO KNOW THERE'S A HANDFUL OF PROJECTS IN THE PHOENIX AREA WHERE A LOT OF OUR TRAFFIC GROUP DOES A LOT OF OUR MODELING WHERE OBVIOUSLY I CAN'T REPORT THAT HERE TODAY, BUT I, I COULD WAGER COULD PULL 10 OR 12 SPECIFIC PROJECTS WHERE SIMILAR IN, IN USE TYPE WHERE INTERNAL CAPTURE WAS, WAS APPLIED DURING THE PRELIMINARY PHASES AND, AND POST-CONSTRUCTION, POST-IMPLEMENTATION, WE WENT OUT THERE AND CAPTURED IT. 
          CUZ AGAIN, AS ENGINEERS WE'RE, WE'RE CURIOUS IF OUR MODELS ARE ACCURATE. 
          SO SIMILAR TO WHAT MR. TATE SAID, IT'S NOT GOOD FOR BUSINESS IF WE HAVE A PARKING SHORTAGE. 
          IT'S NOT GOOD FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD IF THERE'S OVERFLOW PARKING, BUT IT'S NOT GOOD FOR ME AS A PROFESSIONAL IF I TELL YOU IT'S GONNA BE 38% AND UPON IMPLEMENTATION THERE'S A QUEUING BACKUP ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND SUDDENLY WE'VE BACKED UP 1 79. 
          SO I'M CONFIDENT IF OUR GROUP AND THE NUMBERS WE'VE PUT TOGETHER, I'M CONFIDENT IN THE REPORT THAT WE PROVIDED, BUT THERE'S ALWAYS MORE YOU CAN DO. 
          YEP. 
          AND, AND THAT'S CONTINUAL MONITORING MODELING THAT, THAT WE'LL ALWAYS DO AS, AS THE ENGINEERS. 
          AND AGAIN, A LOT OF THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THE CITY. 
          THIS IS A, THIS IS A PROJECT WITH A, WITH A DEVELOPER, BUT WE STILL APPLY THE EXACT SAME METHODOLOGY TO ANY OF OUR PROJECTS. 
          SO I MAY HAVE NOT EDUCATED YOU ON ITV, WHICH I WAS UNABLE TO DO, BUT MORE JUST HOW WE GO THROUGH THE PROCESS. 
          YEP. 
          AND, AND I APPRECIATE ALL THOSE COMMENTS AND, AND YOU STARTED BY SAYING MY CONCERN MIGHT BE ON THE LOCAL DATA ELEMENT OF THAT PARAGRAPHS THAT WE BOTH READ AND, AND THAT WAS PART OF IT, BUT FURTHER MORE MY CONCERNS ARE THAT THE WARNING WAS DON'T APPLY IT TO NON MIXED USE DEVELOPMENTS. 
          AND I DON'T THINK THAT, I'M NOT CONVINCED, AND I WOULD ASK THE QUESTION TO THE EXPERTS THAT AN EXISTING HOTEL THAT'S GONNA HAVE A SPA NEXT DOOR DOESN'T REALLY SOUND LIKE A MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT TO ME. 
          AND THEN TO COMMENT ON THAT, THE CATEGORIES THAT THEY WARN PEOPLE ABOUT DOESN'T INCLUDE A SPA. 
          SO IT'S NOT ONLY THE LOCAL HISTORY, IT'S SORT OF THE APPLICATION OF THE RULES IN GENERAL. 
          KAREN. 
          UM, SO NONE OF OUR EXISTING HOTELS HAVE A SPA OF THIS SIZE, BUT A NUMBER OF THE HOTELS DO HAVE SPOTS AND IN A NUMBER OF THOSE LOCATION, UM, SO SEDONA WILD, WHICH WAS PREVIOUSLY SEDONA ROUGE, AMARA AND LEBERS ARE THE ONES THAT COME TO MIND. 
          AND IN THEIR EVALUATIONS, THEY, THEY HAVE NOT, I, I DON'T WANNA BE QUOTED, BUT THEY HAVE HAD AT LEAST A 50% REDUCTION IN, UM, PARKING. 
          I THINK SOME OF THEM HAVE A HUNDRED PERCENT REDUCTION FOR SLOT CUSTOMER, ALMOST MIXED USE DEVELOPMENTS DESIGNED WITH THE SAME TIME WITH THE SAME THEME TOWARDS THE SAME CUSTOMER. 
          IT KIND OF GETS BACK TO WHAT COUNSELOR VICE INCLUDE GENERALLY WAS GETTING BACK. 
          YEAH. 
          GENERAL BEFORE GENERAL DON'T GET INTO, YOU KNOW, BUSINESS PLAN AND ALL THAT. 
          BUT WE HAD, YOU KNOW, HAD LOOKED AND THEY, AND AGAIN, THERE'S NOTHING THAT, WE HAVE NEVER GONE BACK TO ANY OF THOSE AND SAID, YOU KNOW, GIVE US YOUR CUSTOMER ROLES TO SHOW THAT 50% OF YOUR GUESTS ARE COMING FROM THE SPA, THAT SORT OF THING. 
          BUT, UM, WE'VE, AND THERE HAVE, IF THERE HAVE BEEN PARKING ISSUES AT SOME OF THOSE PROPERTIES, IT'S BEEN UNRELATED TO THAT AND IT'S BEEN ADDRESSED, SO. 
          YEP. 
          UH, ONE THING, JUST TO CLARIFY, IT'S, IT'S A NUANCED DIFFERENCE, BUT IN THE TABLE IT'S MULTI-USE DEVELOPMENT, NOT NECESSARILY MIXED USE. 
          SO WE'RE NOT TALKING, IT HAS TO BE MIXED BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL OFFICE, RETAIL, IT'S, IT'S MULTI-USE. 
          SO IN THIS CASE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MULTIPLE USES WITH A SPA THAT YOU WOULD VISIT DURING THE DAY VERSUS A HOTEL THAT WOULD BE OVERNIGHT. 
          THAT'S, THAT'S INTERESTING. 
          I, I HAD READ THAT REPORT, 6 84 IS SAYING MIXED USE, NOT MULTIUSE. 
          SO I HAVE TO CHECK THAT BACK. 
          CAN I JUST ASK YOU WHAT YEAR THAT REPORT WAS PRODUCED? THE ORIGINAL REPORT WAS 2000, THIS IS WHEN THIS ANALYSIS WAS CREATED. 
          THE WAS DATA FROM 2007. 
          THE REPORT WAS PUBLISHED IN 2010. 
          OKAY. 
          THE TEXAS REPORT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, I THINK WAS PUBLISHED IN 2011. 
          OKAY. 
          SO I JUST WANTED TO GET A SENSE OF TIMING AND WHETHER THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOME EXPERIENCES SINCE THAT TIME. 
          YEAH. 
          THANK YOU. 
          YEP. 
          YEAH, I THINK THE LATEST IT WE'RE USING IS 2018, 
          [01:40:02]
WHICH ALL OF IT PULLS DIFFERENT WHITE PAPERS, DIFFERENT STUDIES, SUPER CONSTANTLY EVOLVING. 
          SO PETE, I THINK I AM NEARLY DONE. 
          I NOTICED THAT ALICIA, RIGHT. 
          PECK MOVED TO THE FRONT ROW AND I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT WAS INDICATIVE OF YOU WANTING TO MAKE A COMMENT OR WHETHER IT'S TO HEAR BETTER  AVAILABLE. 
          AWESOME. 
          THANK YOU. 
          I THINK I'M DONE FOR NOW. 
          I'LL HAVE COMMENTS FOR SURE, BUT THOSE ARE QUESTIONS FOR NOW. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          UM, THANK YOU COUNCIL KINSELLA. 
          UH, FIRST, UH, FOR KURT, UM, THE QUESTION WAS ASKED OF YOU BEFORE ABOUT WHEN SOMETHING'S PRESENTED, A REPRESENTATION IS MADE AS PART OF THE RECORD, BUT WE COULD ALSO, UH, AS AN OPTION UP HERE LATER ON IN OUR ACTIONS, ADD ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL, CORRECT? YES. 
          SO ONE OF, ONE OF THE, THE THREE OPTIONS FOR, FOR CITY COUNCIL RIGHT NOW IS TO AFFIRM, UH, REVERSE OR AMEND AND THE AMENDMENT CAN INCLUDE, UH, OTHER CONDITIONS. 
          OKAY. 
          SO SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD KEEP IN MIND, IS THERE A SPECIFIC POINTS THAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT THEY COULD BECOME CONDITIONS? OKAY, THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION. 
          UM, THE TWO TO THREE HOUR STAY THAT IS BEING PROJECTED FOR CLIENTS AT THE SPA, UH, THIS IS BEING REPRESENTED AS A FAIRLY HIGH END SPA, AS WAS POINTED OUT BEFORE. 
          YET THE, THE HOTEL IS FOR THIS AREA MORE OF A MID-PRICED HOTEL. 
          UM, I KNOW WHEN I'M GOING TO A SPA, YOU KNOW, A BIG FANCY SPA, I'M TRYING TO MAXIMIZE MY TIME AND I'M THERE FOR THE DAY. 
          SO MY CAR IS THERE FOR THE DAY OR HOWEVER I GOT THERE. 
          UH, SO WHAT IS THAT TWO TO THREE HOUR STAY PROJECTED ON? BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T BE, WOULDN'T BE MY MODEL. 
          I'D BE THERE FOR SIX HOURS. 
           WHO CAN ANSWER THAT, CERTAINLY I CAN ANSWER. 
          AND THEN IF, IF ANYONE FROM OUR TEAM HAS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THEY CAN PROVIDE. 
          BUT IF THE, THE, THE MODEL BEHIND A NORDIC THERMO THERAPY SPA IS YOU'RE ALTERNATING BETWEEN COLD WATER AND HOT WATER THERE, THERE'S LOTS OF DATA ON THE THERAPEUTIC EFFECTS OF THAT AND GOING BETWEEN ONE AND THE OTHER. 
          AND THAT PROCESS OVER A PERIOD OF TIME DOES, DOES TAKE TIME. 
          SO IT, IT'S NOT LIKE A 60 MINUTE MASSAGE AND, AND YOU'RE OUT OF THERE. 
          SO THERE COULD CERTAINLY BE SITUATIONS WHERE PEOPLE MAXIMIZE THEIR TIME AND STAY MUCH LONGER THAN THAT. 
          BUT THERE WILL ALSO BE OTHER TREATMENTS WHERE PEOPLE DO JUST GO AND GET A MASSAGER, GO AND GET A SALT SCRUB, AND, AND, AND THEN THEY'RE OFF. 
          AND SO YOU HAVE TO BALANCE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE STAYING THERE ALL DAY AGAINST THE PEOPLE MAY WHO ONLY MAY COME AND GET ONE TREATMENT AND KIND OF, AND THAT BALANCE LED YOU TO A 38%, UH, SORRY, TO A TWO TO THREE HOUR PROJECTION. 
          WELL, THE, THE TWO TO THREE HOURS IS JUST A GENERAL BALLPARK THAT'S NOT INTENDED TO BE GOSPEL AS FAR AS HOW LONG PEOPLE WILL STAY HERE. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, WELL, BUT IT, IT TIES IN TO THE PARKING ISSUE BECAUSE IF YOU'RE SOMEBODY LIKE ME AND YOU'RE GOING THERE FOR SIX HOURS, THAT PARKING IS NOT AVAILABLE. 
          SO IT, IT'S A QUESTION TO THE PARKING IS, IS SOMEBODY, HOW DO YOU GET TO THERE, THERE FOR TWO TO THREE HOURS? BECAUSE WHEN DOES THAT PARKING SPACE, HOW OFTEN IS THAT TURNOVER AND HOW OFTEN IS THAT AVAILABLE? THE, THE STATE COUNSELOR KINSELLA WAS REALLY JUST INTENDED TO ILLUSTRATE THE, THE LARGER REDUCTION, WHICH THE REDUCTION THAT THAT 36%, SORRY 38% IS BASED UPON THE IT TRIP GENERATION MANUAL. 
          RIGHT. 
          I I DIDN'T MEAN TO SAY 38% BEFORE. 
          I'M MIXING UP TWO POINTS, SO I'M GONNA GET TO 38% THOUGH, STICK WITH ME. 
          BUT JUST THE TWO TO THREE HOUR STAY, HOW IS IT REACHED THAT IT'S A TWO TO THREE HOUR AVERAGE STAY? THAT WAS SAID, THAT WAS REPRESENTED THAT AND I, AND THAT WAS, AGAIN, THAT WAS REALLY JUST MEANT AS AN APPROXIMATION. 
          THERE WAS NO, SO THERE'S NO MATH, THERE'S NO METRIC, THERE'S NOTHING. 
          IT'S JUST OUT OF THE BLUE. 
          IT'S JUST NOT OUT OF THE BLUE. 
          IT'S, IT'S JUST AN APPROXIMATION , IT'S, IT'S, THIS IS, AGAIN, THIS IS OUR, OUR BEST CASE GUESS ON TURNOVER. 
          SO I WOULD OFFER IT THIS, THE SPOT ITSELF HAS A CAPACITY FOR PATRONS. 
          SO IF EVERYBODY DECIDES TO STAY FOR THE ENTIRE DAY MM-HMM. 
          , NOBODY ELSE VISITS FOR THE DAY. 
          SO THERE'S NO PARKING IF IT'S CONSTANT TURNOVER. 
          WE, WE TRIED THE TWO TO THREE HOUR TURNOVER TO REALLY LOOK AT TRAFFIC PROJECTIONS. 
          SO I GET LIKE, IT'S A BALANCE. 
          LIKE IF WE WERE TO SAY THAT EVERYONE STAYED ALL DAY LONG, THEN WE'D BE GENERATING ONE CAR EVERY FOUR HOURS. 
          IF WE WERE TO SAY IT WAS TURNING OVER AND EVERYONE'S JUST GETTING A FACIAL SCRUB FOR 30 MINUTES, THEN WE'RE OVERLOADING THE INTERSECTION. 
          SO IT WAS FOR EVERY PERSON STAYING ALL DAY, THERE ARE PEOPLE POTENTIALLY THAT ARE COMING FROM THE HOTEL, JUST MAYBE THEY GOT A COUPON FROM THE HOTEL AND THEY'RE GONNA GO GET A ONE HOUR MASSAGE AND LEAVE. 
          AND FORGIVE ME, AND YOU MADE MY POINT FOR ME, EITHER THE INTERSECTION IS BEING OVERLOADED OR THERE'S NOT ENOUGH PARKING. 
          SO THAT'S, WELL, SO THAT'S WHY ANOTHER . 
          SO THAT'S WHY THE TWO TO THREE HOURS IS A NICE BALANCE CUZ IT, IT TAKES, EXCEPT AGAIN, BACK TO I'M NOT SEEING SOMETHING THAT'S TELLING ME THAT THE TWO TO THREE HOURS IS A REAL NUMBER WHERE IT'S COMING FROM. 
          OKAY. 
          IS ARE YOU WITH THE PROJECT? YEAH. 
          THAT'S AND YOUR 
          [01:45:01]
NAME AND WHAT YOU DO FOR THE PROJECT? ABSOLUTELY. 
          BILL MENCH, I'M THE ASSET MANAGER FOR THE ARBELLA HOTEL AND WORKING WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE SPA ASSET MANAGER? YES, CORRECT. 
          OWNERS REPRESENTATIVE ASSET MANAGER. 
          UM, THE TWO TO THREE HOURS WAS ACTUALLY PROVIDED BY MULTIPLE SPA CONSULTANTS WHO HAVE DONE BETWEEN THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE AND STUDIES THEY'VE DONE IN THE PAST REGARDING THERMAL SPAS, KIND OF AVERAGING OUT THE AVERAGE LENGTH OF STAY FOR A GUEST. 
          SO IT'S NOT A NUMBER THAT WAS JUST PULLED OUT THE BLUE. 
          IT WAS PRESENTED BY EXPERTS. 
          OKAY. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          BILL. 
          UM, COULD YOU GO TO YOUR TRAFFIC SLIDE PLEASE? THAT YOU HAD BEFORE? TELL ME WHEN TO STOP. 
          KEEP GOING. 
          THERE YOU GO. 
          OKAY, THANK YOU. 
          SO AGAIN, THE 38% INTERNAL CAPTURE RATE, WE TOUCHED ON THAT AND VICE V*G PLU BROUGHT THAT UP AND I HAVE THE SAME CONCERN. 
          COULD YOU PLEASE JUST BRIEFLY AGAIN TELL ME HOW 38% WAS, WAS REACHED? THAT'S PROBABLY A QUESTION FOR OUR ENGINEER THAT'S STRAIGHT FROM THE IT MANUAL. 
          SO THAT'S A, A DIRECT PERCENTAGE THAT AGAIN TO IT'S FROM THE MANUAL YES. 
          QUESTIONS. 
          YES. 
          BUT WHAT, WHAT, WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE METHODOLOGY THAT THE MA THAT THE MANUAL USES TO PUT THAT NUMBER IN THERE? UH, SO EARLIER WE WERE TALKING ORIGINALLY BACK IN 2007. 
          IT WAS A FEW CASES IN FLORIDA, AND THEN OVER TIME IT IS BUILT MORE DATA TO SUPPORT THE 38% BETWEEN THESE TWO MIXED USES. 
          SO WE PULL THAT FROM A TABLE. 
          AGAIN, THAT WAS THE IT MANUAL WE'RE USING IS 2018. 
          THE, THE WHITE PAPER, I BELIEVE COUN, UH, COUNSELOR FURMAN BROUGHT UP WAS 10 YEARS PRIOR. 
          SO IT'S THROUGH PAST DATA AND PERCENTAGE OF PROJECTS THAT WERE IMPLEMENTED VERY SIMILAR IN TERMS OF MULTI-USE AND, AND 38% IS A, IS A REDUCTION THAT WE TYPICALLY SEE AND USE, AGAIN, WITH EVERY CASE STILL NEEDS TO BE TRUTH CHECKED ONCE THE PROJECT IS IMPLEMENTED. 
          MM-HMM. 
           AND AS CARRIE INDICATED PERHAPS. 
          YEAH. 
          BUT THAT 50%, WHAT IS THE RECOURSE THEN IF THE, I GUESS THAT'S ANOTHER KIRK QUESTION. 
          SO SOMETHING WAS REPRESENTED, IT TURNS OUT TO NOT BE THE CASE. 
          THE PROJECT'S UP AND RUNNING. 
          THERE'S A BUSINESS THERE, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT'S THE RECOURSE DO YOU WANT, COUNSELOR, CAN YOU CLARIFY WHAT, WHAT WAS REPRESENTED AND WHAT, WHAT SPECIFICALLY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? YOU JUST SAYING IF THE PARKING WASN'T SUFFICIENT? YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          SO I MEAN, IT'S, IT IS ALREADY, IT'S BEEN EXPLAINED A LITTLE BIT CAPTURED BY THE, THE PARKING SHARING AGREEMENT. 
          UM, IT COULD ALSO BE A SPECIFIC CONDITION AS, AS CARRIE MENTIONED, THAT IF THE PARKING'S NOT SUFFICIENT, THEY COULD BE REQUIRED TO, UH, BUILD MORE PARKING. 
          THEY'RE AT A VERY LOW, UH, USAGE, USAGE OF THE LAW. 
          SO CAN COME IN AND ACTUALLY ORDER THAT, THAT THERE'S, IT COULD BE A CONDITION OF APPROVAL AND SO THAT IF THERE'S NOT SUFFICIENT PARKING, THEY COULD EXPAND THE PARKING AND THEY DO HAVE TO DO THE PARKING AGREEMENT DEED RESTRICTIONS. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          SO THAT CAN BE ADDED TO THAT AS WELL. 
          THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT MAYBE, YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD POP UP ON A TITLE SEARCH OF A PROPERTY OR GET RECORDED AGAINST TO PROPERTY. 
          OKAY. 
          THEY ARE AT A LOW LOT COVERAGE. 
          MM-HMM. 
           IN THE QUARTERISH. 
          SO I THINK THEY COULD FIT HUNDREDS OF MORE PARKING SPACES IF THEY NEED TO. 
          I JUST WOULD. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          WOULDN'T LOOK GREAT. 
          AND, UM, THE, I'M I'M JUMPING AROUND, I'M SORRY BECAUSE I TOOK NOTES AT ALL VARIOUS PARTS SO IT'S NOT COHESIVE. 
          SO , UM, AGAIN, THE LEAD CERTIFICATION THAT WAS BROUGHT UP BEFORE, UM, IT'S BEING BUILT TO LEAD STANDARDS BUT NOT CERTIFIED. 
          BUT THEN AGAIN, JUST BE THEN. 
          SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, THAT'S REPRESENTED THAT IT'S LEAD QUALIFYING AND THEREFORE THAT WAS A REPRESENTATION MADE. 
          AND IF IT'S NOT, THAT WOULD'VE TO BE CORRECTED. 
          UH, COUNCIL MEMBER KINSELLA, UH, I DID NOT REPRESENT THAT THIS IS BEING BUILT TO A LEAD STANDARD. 
          WHAT I SAID WAS THAT PRO THERE ARE PRO, WE DID NO COUNCIL MEMBER KINSELLA. 
          WHAT I SAID IS THAT THE, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. 
          THERE ARE PROJECTS THAT BUILD TO A LEAD STANDARD THAT DON'T GET THE CERTIFICATION BECAUSE THE CERTIFICATION IS SO EXPENSIVE. 
          , WE DID THAT RECENTLY ON A PROJECT IN FLAGSTAFF. 
          I WAS SIMPLY ILLUSTRATING THAT THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT PROCESSES, UH, YOU WOULD'VE TO ASK THE ARCHITECT. 
          I'M NOT, I'M NOT AWARE OF WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE PLANNING ON BUILDING TO A LEAD STANDARD. 
          AH, OH, SO COULD WE ASK THAT, ARE YOU PLANNING ON BUILDING TO A LEAD STANDARD? UH, NO, WE WERE NOT. 
          SO I MEAN, WE'RE GONNA BE IMPLEMENTING A NUMBER OF SUSTAINABLE MEASURES. 
          FOR EXAMPLE, THE LOT COVERAGE, WHICH I MENTIONED EARLIER DOES QUALIFY FOR LEAD POINTS. 
          THERE'S A, A VARIETY OF THINGS WE'RE IMPLEMENTING LOW FLOW FIXTURES. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , THAT'S PRETTY STANDARD. 
          I MEAN, UH, IT, WE'LL BE IMPLEMENTING THESE FEATURES WHICH ARE AGAIN, LEAD CREDITS OR QUALIFY FOR LEAD CREDITS. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          UM, BUT WE HAVEN'T DONE AN, A FULL-BLOWN ANALYSIS TO DETERMINE WHERE WE WOULD SCORE ON SORT OF THE LEAD SPECTRUM. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          I'M BACK TO TRAFFIC. 
          UM, I'M VERY CONCERNED IT'S, IT IS, AS IT WAS POINTED OUT 
          [01:50:01]
BEFORE 1 79 IN THAT SECTION, AS YOU START TO COME IN TO THE SNUGGLY HILL ROUNDABOUT TO ENTER THE SEDONA IS PROBABLY AT LEAST TWO, IF NOT THE FIRST, MOST CONGESTED PORTION OF THE CITY. 
          UM, PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD OF SEDONA BY CHAPEL CANNOT GET IN. 
          THEY AVOID COMING IN. 
          I MEAN, A TRAFFIC THERE IS SO BAD. 
          ANYBODY COMING OUT TRYING TO MAKE A LEFT, IT'S NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE. 
          UM, I NOTE THAT THE, UH, ADOT HAS NOT GIVEN YOU THE TRAFFIC ANALYSIS YET. 
          AS OF US GETTING THIS PACKET, IS THAT STILL THE CASE THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE THE TRAFFIC ANALYSIS? WELL, YEAH. 
          THAT WE DON'T HAVE A REVIEW FROM THEM. 
          THAT'S CORRECT. 
          WHEN IS THAT EXPECTED? WHO KNOWS? IT'S ADOT . 
          UM, YEAH, WE'VE, WE'VE, WE'VE DISCUSSED WITH THEM MULTIPLE TIMES OVER THE LAST THREE MONTHS TO GET A REVIEW AND THE LATEST WAS TO NOT COMPLETELY DIVE INTO IT. 
          THEY WANTED US TO SUBMIT AN ENCROACHMENT PERMIT, WHICH ALL WE'RE REALLY ASKING FOR IS A REVIEW OF THE TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS. 
          SO WE NEED TO GET SQUARED AWAY WITH WHAT WE'RE REQUESTING OF THEM. 
          I THINK THE BIGGEST THING ON 1 79, AND THIS WAS OBVIOUSLY A GOOD COMMENT THAT CAME FROM THE CITY, WAS WE DO NEED ADOT TO REVIEW AND ULTIMATELY APPROVE THE METHODOLOGY AND THE T BECAUSE OF THE DIRECT TIE-IN TO 1 79. 
          CUZ WHILE I DO THINK THAT LESS THAN ONE CAR MINUTE IS PRETTY LOW RELATIVE TO ALL THE TRAFFIC IN SEDONA, WE DO NEED ADOT TO REVIEW IT. 
          AND TO A POINT EARLIER, IF THAT'S AN INTERSECTION THAT IS ALREADY HAVING ISSUES, THEN THAT'S SOMETHING THAT ADOT ULTIMATELY WOULD NEED TO TAKE ON BECAUSE WHAT THIS PROJECT IS ADDING IS REALLY A DROP IN THE BUCKET COMPARED TO TRAFFIC ON THE HIGHWAY. 
          UH, AND, AND ALSO LIKE WE SAID, JUST IN TERMS OF OVERALL INCREASES, IT, IT'S SO MINOR IN TERMS OF DELAYS AND THEN WHAT WE WOULD TYPICALLY LOOK AT FROM AN IMPACT. 
          BUT BECAUSE IT'S TYING INTO THE HIGHWAY THAT IS EIGHT OUT RIGHT OF WAY, WE DO NEED THEIR, THEIR REVIEW. 
          SO WE HAVE SUBMITTED, WE SUBMITTED IN OCTOBER, THEN WE RESUBMITTED IN NOVEMBER AND WE'VE CORRESPONDED OVER THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS. 
          SO WE ARE MAKING OUR BEST EFFORTS TO GET ADOT TO THE TABLE TO REVIEW ULTIMATELY OUR METHODOLOGY IN THE T I AND THEN FROM THERE, SEE WHAT, WHAT THEIR NEXT STEPS ARE. 
          WE'RE ULTIMATELY RECOMMENDING NO IMPROVEMENTS AT THE INTERSECTION BECAUSE OF, OF ULTIMATELY WHAT THE, WHAT THE TRIPS ARE GENERATING THAT'S BASED AGAIN ON THE 38% INTERNAL CAPTURE, WHICH I, I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S, THAT'S BASED ON PAST, PAST DATA AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE, WE'RE USING AND WE NEED ADOT AND ULTIMATELY THE CITY TO, TO AGREE WITH THAT METHODOLOGY. 
          BUT, UM, AS FAR AS IMPACTS TO THE HIGHWAY, YEAH, WE WE'RE SOLELY RELIANT ON ADOT, UH, COORDINATING WITH US AND, AND REVIEWING WHAT WE'VE SUBMITTED. 
          BUT IN YOUR REVIEW, I MEAN, THERE WAS SOMEWHERE IN HERE, DON'T ASK ME TO FIND IT AT THE MOMENT, BUT THAT IF THERE WAS A PROJECTED DEGRADATION OF THAT INTERSECTION DOWN THERE FROM A A C TO A D, CORRECT. 
          ONLY IN THE WESTBOUND DIRECTION. 
          SO ONLY ON, ON THE CONNECTOR ROAD. 
          SO THE INTERSECTION ITSELF SAW NO LEVEL OF SERVICE. 
          OH, CHANGE. 
          IT WAS ONLY THE WESTBOUND APPROACH, WHICH MAKES SENSE BECAUSE WE'RE GOING FROM A 28 SECOND DELAY TO A 37 SECOND DELAY. 
          AND JUST BY THE DELAY THAT'S CAPTURED THERE, THAT TRIGGERS A LEVEL OF SERVICE CHANGE. 
          SO WE WENT BACK TO ADA, WE SAID, HEY, WE'RE NOT, THE LEVEL OF SERVICE OF THIS INTERSECTION IS NOT IMPACTED, IT'S JUST THE WESTBOUND DIRECTION OF TRAVEL BECAUSE WE ARE ADDING VEHICLES TO THE ROADWAY. 
          AND THAT WENT FROM A C TO A D. 
          AND, AND IN THAT CASE, WE WERE COORDINATING WITH THEM TO SAY, TYPICALLY IN THIS CASE, YOU AS ADOT WOULD APPROVE, BECAUSE THIS IS, IS NOT SOMETHING THAT THEY WOULD REQUIRE A FULL INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENT DONE BECAUSE OF ONE VEHICLE A MINUTE. 
          SO THE, THE LEVEL OF SERVICE CHANGE WAS IN THE WESTBOUND DIRECTION WHERE TRAFFIC IS COMING FROM. 
          ULTIMATELY THE BUT ONE VEHICLE A MINUTE, YOU KNOW, IN 60 AN HOUR AT TIMES, A COUPLE OF HOURS IS WELL OVER THE 400 DAILY RATE THAT WOULD QUALIFY IT AS LOW VOLUME 400. 
          RIGHT. 
          400 CARS A DAY IS, IS UNDER 400 CARS A DAY IS BASICALLY CONSIDERED, IS A THRESHOLD IN ACCORDING TO MANUAL OF UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROL DEVICES FOR VOLUME THAT WAS UNDER 400 AN HOUR. 
          AND COUNCIL MEMBER KINSELLA, YOU'RE TAKING THE NUMBER THAT IS OUR PEAK, MEANING THAT THE HIGHEST NUMBER IN THE AFTERNOON, AND YOU'RE EXTRAPOLATING THAT OVER THE ENTIRE DAY, WHICH IS NOT THE CASE. 
          IT'S THE, THAT IS THE BUSIEST HOUR IN THE AFTERNOON, THE BUSIEST HOUR IN THE MORNING, MULTIPLYING THOSE NUMBERS ACROSS THE ENTIRE DAY WOULD OVERESTIMATE OUR TRAFFIC. 
          YEAH. 
          WE HAVE, UH, 1100 DAILY TRIPS, AND THAT'S IN BOTH DIRECTIONS. 
          SO SPLIT IT. 
          WE'VE GOT 1100 DAILY TRIPS NOW OVER, OVER A 24 HOUR PERIOD. 
          24-HOUR PERIOD. 
          THAT'S, I'M SORRY. 
          THAT'S A LOT  IN MY MIND. 
          THAT'S A LOT. 
          I'D LIKE TO PAUSE 
          [01:55:01]
FOR ONE MINUTE AND GET SOME INFORMATION FROM OUR ENGINEERING HANUKAH. 
          YOU WANT TO JUMP IN AND YES. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, I'M NOT AWARE OF THE M UT C D 400 THRESHOLD. 
          UM, WHAT WE LOOK AT AT THE CITY IS 100. 
          IF IT'S MORE THAN 100 VEHICLES PER HOUR, PER PEAK HOUR, THEN THAT WOULD BE THE THRESHOLD FOR A FULL, UM, THANK YOU FOR THE STUDY. 
          THAT'S EIGHT OTS AS WELL. 
          IF YOU MAKE A SENSE. 
          CLOSE THAT. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU, HELEN. 
          OKAY. 
          IF YOU WANNA CONTINUE, UM, YEAH. 
          UM, OKAY. 
          I TALKED ABOUT THE TRAFFIC AND THE PARKING AND, OKAY. 
          I THINK I'M DONE WITH QUESTIONS FOR NOW AND I'LL RESERVE FOR COMMENTS. 
          THANK YOU. 
          OKAY. 
          JUST ONE SECOND. 
          JESSICA. 
          FIRST. 
          COUNCILOR WILLIAMSON? NO. 
          OH, COUNCIL FOLTZ. 
          IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THERE COULD BE ANY QUESTIONS LEFT TO ASK. 
          YEAH. 
          TELL ME ABOUT, HOPEFULLY NOT IN THE WEEDS. 
          SO THIS WILL SEEM LIKE A WEEDS QUESTION, BUT YOU'LL UNDERSTAND LATER. 
          OKAY. 
          DO YOU HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT THE DAY RATE IS GOING TO BE FOR LIKE A LOCAL TO GO AND, UH, MAKE USE OF THE SPA? I WAS GONNA ASK, THAT WOULD BE A MANAGEMENT QUESTION. 
          UH, WE WOULD PROJECT AT THIS POINT APPROXIMATELY $75 FOR LOCALS. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          COULD YOU, COULD YOU EXPLAIN THAT $75 FOR WHAT? EVERYTHING, UH, FOR ENTRANCE . 
          FOR ENTRANCE. 
          FOR ENTRANCE. 
          SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THIS ISN'T A TRADITIONAL, UH, I DON'T WANNA SAY TRADITIONAL. 
          THIS ISN'T A SPAWN. 
          THE SENSE OF, UM, YOU WALK INTO A SPA AND YOU PAY FOR A MASSAGE. 
          THERE'S AN ENTRANCE FEE TO A THERMAL SPA BECAUSE THERE'S NO TIME LIMIT ON HOW LONG YOU CAN STAY. 
          YOU CAN ENJOY ALL THESE AMENITIES AS PART OF THAT ENTRANCE FEE. 
          BUT THEN THERE ARE ADD-ONS. 
          IF YOU WANT A MASSAGE, YOU PAY FOR A MASSAGE ON TOP OF THAT, IF YOU WANT FOOD, YOU PAY FOR FOOD ON TOP OF THAT. 
          SO IT'S LIKE ENTERING A THEME PARK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 
          THANK YOU, MAYOR. 
          THAT WAS IT. 
          THAT'S IT. 
          WOW. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, THANK YOU. 
          SO, UM, TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE, UH, AUDIENCE, UH, QUESTIONS. 
          UH, THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT CONDOS AND THAT, BUT I THINK YOU SAID THAT WAS ELIMINATED. 
          UH, YES. 
          MAYOR JALO, BOTH THE, UH, THE SPA VILLAS, SPA CASITAS, WHEREVER YOU WANNA CALL THEM, THOSE HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM, FROM THE PLAN. 
          SO HAS THE OBSERVATION DECK. 
          PERFECT. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, THE DESIGN OF THE NEW BUILDING CARRY THIS IS, I GUESS WOULD BE FOR YOU, DOES NOT HA BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT REALLY TIED TOGETHER, BUT THEN NEXT TO EACH OTHER, THEY DON'T HAVE TO, ONE DOESN'T HAVE TO LOOK SIMILAR TO, UM, A LOT OF THE INFORMATION IN THE CODE ABOUT IS, IS A VISUAL CONNECTION BECAUSE IT'S ON THE BACK OF A HILLSIDE. 
          WE DIDN'T CONSIDER THAT THEY NEEDED TO, UM, HAVE THOSE THE SAME ARCHITECTURAL STYLE. 
          IT'S, IT'S, IF YOU THINK OF SOMETHING LIKE IN UPTOWN WHERE YOU HAVE ZERO LOT LINES AND ALL THOSE DIFFERENT BUILDINGS, YOU WANT THOSE TO ALL CONNECT TOGETHER. 
          BUT, UM, I UNDERSTAND THESE WERE FAR ENOUGH APART. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, EV CHARGING STATIONS MM-HMM. 
           WITH THAT CONSIDERED, I THINK IT WAS DISCUSSED WITH THAT APPROVED, I BELIEVE THEY'RE REQUIRED BY THE BUILDING CODE AS WELL. 
          AND I'M GETTING A NOD FROM THE PROPERTY OWNER. 
          I, I'D GO BY MY BRAINS OVER RIGHT OVER THERE, ALICIA? YES. 
          DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT? RIGHT. 
          YOU'RE AWARE THAT WHAT THEY'RE DOING, I'M SORRY, MR. MAYOR, CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION FOR ME PLEASE? THEIR, THEIR PLAN WITH THE EV CHARGERS CON, UH, CONFORMS WITH YOUR GUIDELINES. 
          I HAVE NOT SEEN A PLAN FOR EV CHARGERS AT THIS SITE. 
          I DIDN'T THINK SO. 
          OKAY. 
          BUT THAT'S WHY I ASKED. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THEY, FOR OUR 60 UNIT PARKING LOT, I BELIEVE THE BUILDING CODE WOULD REQUIRE OKAY. 
          THAT SOME OF THEM BE OKAY. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          AND YOU SAID IT'S IN THERE. 
          I'M GETTING A NOD. 
          D . 
          SO THE BUILDING CODE ACTUALLY REQUIRES PRE-WIRING FOR EV CHARGERS, UM, BUT NOT THE EV CHARGERS THEMSELVES. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU, STEVE. 
          UH, AND THEN THE OUTDOOR EVENT PARKING, UH, THAT, THAT WAS MENTIONED, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE EVENTS. 
          IS THAT GOING TO ADD? IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE EVENTS BASED ON THE, THE SHAKES OF THE HEAD THAT I'M GETTING FROM BOTH THE OWNER AND THE ASSET MANAGER DOESN'T APPEAR THAT EVENTS ARE BEING CONTEMPLATED. 
          OKAY. 
          AND THEN, UM, EVEN IF YOU WANTED TO DO SOMETHING AT THAT INTERSECTION FOR THE, THE ROAD, THERE'S NOT MUCH LEFT THAT YOU COULD DO, I WOULD THINK. 
          RIGHT. 
          IT'S, IT'S, THEY ALREADY HAVE A, UH, CURB CUT OFF THE, FOR A RIGHT TURN IN. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND THERE'S A BUS STOP THERE, WHICH CAN'T BE MOVED. 
          SO YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE 
          [02:00:01]
MANY OPTIONS IF, EVEN IF YOU WANT TO DO ANYTHING UHOH. 
          SORRY, MEETING'S OVER. 
          I BLEW THE WHOLE THING. 
          DANG. 
          F**K YOU JUST SHORT OUT THIS SCREEN WITH STATIC. 
          YEAH. 
          I DIDN'T TELL YOU ABOUT MY POWERS . 
          I JUST MET. 
          UM, YEAH, I AGREE. 
          LIKE, I MEAN, YOU'LL SAY ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, BUT YES, IT WOULD TAKE OUT A PORTION OF THE FRONTAGE ALONG CIRCLE K. 
          THERE'S ALREADY EXISTING IMPROVEMENTS ALONG THE ARABELLA SIDE. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , UH, YOU HAVE A PRETTY WIDE TURN LANE IN STORAGE WITHIN THE HIGHWAY ITSELF, BUT WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT THE IMPROVEMENTS NEEDED. 
          IF SOMEONE WERE TO SAY WE NEED TO GET TO AN EXTREME HIGH LEVEL OF SERVICE WOULD BE ADDING A LEFT TURN LANE. 
          SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO REMOVE AND REPLACE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF CURB LANDSCAPING. 
          THERE'S WATER METERS, THERE'S HYDRANTS THERE, SO THE IMPACTS WOULD BE PRETTY SIGNIFICANT. 
          OKAY. 
          THAT'S RIGHT. 
          I MEAN, I PASSED THERE THREE OR FOUR TIMES A DAY, SO I'M PRETTY FAMILIAR WITH THE INTERSECTION. 
          UM, AND THAT JUST ABOUT ADDRESSES MY QUESTIONS. 
          SO, UM, SHALL WE GO FOR COMMENTS AND, UH, WE'LL TRY TO KEEP 'EM SHORT AND CONCISE AND NOT IN THE WEEDS. 
          SO, UH, WE'RE ALREADY TWO HOURS IN, SO, UH, WOULD YOU LIKE TO, I'LL START ON THIS ONE. 
          MAYOR, THEY STILL HAVE THE FIVE MINUTES FOR REBUTTAL AS WELL. 
          THAT WAS KIND OF JUST COMMENTS OR IN QUESTIONS. 
          SO THANK YOU, CHARICE. 
          OKAY. 
          SO DO YOU WANNA REBUT ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT YOU'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED WITH US? I HAVE NO REBUTTAL . 
          I DIDN'T THINK, UH, MR. MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, UH, I'LL, I'LL TRY AND KEEP IT SHORT. 
          UM, AND, AND REALLY JUST FIVE MINUTES , I'LL, I'LL, I PROMISE YOU I'LL TAKE LESS THAN THAT. 
          CHAR. 
          I, I JUST GO BACK TO TWO THINGS AND THAT IS, UH, ONE, WHAT IS THE SCOPE OF THE REVIEW HERE AND WHAT'S REQUIRED OF THE APPLICANT BY THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE IN YOUR COMMUNITY PLAN? I, I THINK WE'VE CERTAINLY REPRESENTED THAT. 
          WE'VE MET ALL OF THOSE. 
          BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, YOUR STAFF IS TELLING YOU THAT YOU'VE, THAT WE HAVE MET ALL OF THESE REQUIREMENTS, UH, WITHOUT EXCEPTION. 
          UH, AND THEN THE SECOND PART OF THAT I WOULD URGE YOU TO CONSIDER IS THAT, AGAIN, THIS IS VACANT LAND WITH COMMERCIAL ZONING, THAT THE, THE APPLICANT HAS THE RIGHT, THE LEGAL RIGHT TO DEVELOP WITH THE LAND USES THAT ARE PERMITTED IN THE COMMERCIALS COMMERCIAL ZONING DISTRICT. 
          AND AMONG THE USES THAT COULD BE THAT THIS SITE COULD BE UTILIZED FOR THE EFFORTS THE APPLICANT HAS MADE TO, UH, TIE THE BUILDINGS IN WITH THE LANDSCAPE, WITH THE NATURAL TERRAIN, MINIMIZING THE DISTURBANCE OF THE NATURAL TERRAIN AND MINIMIZING THE INTENSITY OF A FIVE AND A HALF ACRE COMMERCIALLY ZONED SITE, UH, I WOULD CERTAINLY SUBMIT AN URGE YOU, UH, TO CONSIDER THE FACT THAT AMONG THE WAYS THAT THIS COULD POTENTIALLY BE DEVELOPED, THAT THIS IS BY FAR THE BEST ONE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          WOW. 
          THAT WAS GOOD. 
          OKAY. 
          COUNSEL. 
          FULTZ, DO YOU HAVE ANY, UH, COMMENTS? THANK YOU, MAYOR. 
          SO WHEN LOOKING AT THE APPEAL TODAY, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S LOOKING AT THE FOUR ITEMS THAT YOU HAD BROUGHT UP THAT WERE, UH, REASONS FOR THE REJECTION PREVIOUSLY. 
          THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WHAT I FOCUSED ON IN PARTICULAR. 
          AND, AND OBVIOUSLY THE NOTION THAT BY RIGHT, THIS PROJECT, UH, SHOULD BE APPROVED. 
          I, I UNDERSTAND THAT. 
          UM, I LIKE THE LOWER INTENSITY USE ON THE LAND, UH, USING THAT AS A FEAR TACTIC. 
          ON THE OTHER HAND, I'M NOT AS MUCH OF A FAN OF. 
          UM, BUT FOR THE RESIDENTS THAT ARE HERE, AND IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S A NUMBER OF THEM, UH, OBVIOUSLY SEVERAL OF YOU SPOKE, UM, THIS IS HARD, RIGHT? IT'S HARD WHEN YOU'VE BEEN LOOKING AT A PIECE OF LAND THAT HAS NOT BEEN DEVELOPED FOR YEARS UPON YEARS. 
          AND IT'S WHAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S WHAT YOU SEE WHEN YOU LOOK OUT YOUR WINDOWS. 
          AND AND THAT'S SOMETHING TO GRIEVE OVER IN A SENSE. 
          AND I GET THAT. 
          AND I HAVE THAT. 
          I LIVE BY THE CHAPEL. 
          MY PROPERTY WAS PLATTED OVER 50 YEARS AGO, AND THERE'S AN STR R BEING BUILT TWO DOORS DOWN RIGHT NOW. 
          AND IT KIND OF INTERFERES A LITTLE BIT WITH MY VIEW OF BELL ROCK. 
          AND, AND I GET THAT, AND IT, AND IT'S HARD AND IT, AND IT HURTS AND, YOU KNOW, BUT THERE'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DO ABOUT IT JUST BECAUSE WE DON'T LIKE IT, UH, BECAUSE OF THAT DEVELOPMENT HAPPENING, UH, BECAUSE IT'S BY RIGHT. 
          AND, UH, THIS IS A STRONG, YOU KNOW, PROPERTY RIGHTS STATE, THAT'S FOR SURE. 
          YOU KNOW, I, I ALSO HEARD CONCERNS ABOUT WHETHER THE ARABELLA IS A GOOD NEIGHBOR. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, I ENCOURAGE YOU ALL TO CONTINUE TO WORK WITH MANAGEMENT OF THE ARABELLA. 
          AND WHEN SOMETHING ISN'T GOING AS PER WHAT YOU'D EXPECT, YOU KNOW, TRY TO WORK WITH THEM. 
          UH, THAT'S WHAT WE ALL NEED TO DO. 
          UM, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL VERY CONCERNED ABOUT WATER USE HERE, AND WHAT WE HAVE TO WORK WITH AS A COUNCIL IS, IS ACTUALLY SOMEWHAT LIMITED. 
          SO THE COMMUNITY PLAN IS, YOU KNOW, ASPIRATIONAL. 
          THE LDC DOESN'T SPEAK TO IT, SO THERE'S REALLY NOTHING WE CAN GO BACK TO AND SAY, WELL, THIS USES TOO MUCH WATER, THEREFORE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO 
          [02:05:01]
DECLINE IT. 
          AND THAT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE TEETH IN SOME OF OUR CODES SO THAT WE CAN, IN FACT, IN THE FUTURE, UM, BE ABLE TO SAY NO TO PROJECTS WHEN THE, THE WATER USE SEEMS UNREASONABLE OR EXCESSIVE. 
          UM, APPRECIATE ALL THE WAYS IN WHICH THIS PROJECT HAS BEEN DESIGNED FOR MINIMIZING WATER USE. 
          I THINK YOU SHOULD BE COMMENDED FOR THAT. 
          THE, UH, THE CONCERN ABOUT PARKING AND THE, UM, INTERNAL CAPTURE. 
          OKAY. 
          SO SPAS WERE NEVER, UH, INCLUDED IN ANYBODY'S RESEARCH, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT CAN'T WORK FROM A, UM, CALCULATED PERSPECTIVE. 
          AND SO I THINK WE NEED TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS, AS ANDREW SAID, AND, UM, IT'S BEEN ALREADY MENTIONED AND ALLUDED TO, THAT WE NEED TO HAVE A CONDITION FOR, IN THE EVENT THAT THE CALCULATIONS DON'T PLAY OUT, THAT THERE IS A STIPULATION IN WHICH MORE PARKING WOULD HAVE TO BE BUILT. 
          THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING I WOULD BE LOOKING FOR IN THE MOTION TODAY. 
          AND THEN, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS COMMUNITY BENEFITS GO, LOOKING BACK AGAIN AT THE, UH, COMMUNITY PLAN, I THINK ABOUT, UM, HOW COULD THIS BENEFIT THE COMMUNITY FOR REAL? AND, AND ONE THOUGHT IS, IS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANNA SEE US BUILDING MORE, UH, RESIDENTIAL SWIMMING POOLS AS A, FOR INSTANCE, UH, NOT ONLY FOR THE WATER, BUT JUST FROM AN OVERALL SUSTAINABILITY, YOU KNOW, DIGGING UP THE GROUND KIND OF A THING. 
          AND IF YOU LOOK AT SPENDING, SAY, $50,000 TO BUILD A POOL AT YOUR HOUSE AND THINK ABOUT PAYING $75 PER PERSON TO GO AND SPEND THE DAY AT THE ARABELLA SPA, THEN ME AND MY WIFE COULD GO DO THAT 333 TIMES TOGETHER BEFORE WE'D SPEND THE MONEY THAT IT WOULD TAKE TO BUILD A POOL IN OUR BACKYARD. 
          AND IF I'M GONNA GO DO THAT, YOU KNOW, 10 TIMES A YEAR, IT'S GONNA TAKE ME, YOU KNOW, EASILY OVER 30 YEARS TO GET TO, YOU KNOW, THE CROSSOVER POINT THERE WHERE I'M AT A BREAK EVEN. 
          SO I ACTUALLY THINK THERE IS A BENEFIT, UH, IN THAT REGARD THAT FOR THOSE OF US THAT DON'T OWN A POOL OR OTHERWISE HAVE IMMEDIATE ACCESS, I THINK THIS IS ACTUALLY A, A VERY NICE PROJECT IN THAT REGARD. 
          SO, UH, IT IS MY INTENT TO, UH, SUPPORT, UH, THE PROJECT WITH, I GUESS, A REVERSAL OF THE DENIAL WITH THE CONDITION THAT, UM, THAT IF THE PARKING DOESN'T WORK OUT RIGHT, THAT THERE IS A STIPULATION THAT IT BE ADDRESSED. 
          THANK YOU, MAYOR. 
          OKAY. 
          THANKS MAYOR. 
          I'LL RESERVE MY COMMENTS OKAY. 
          TIL THE END. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, COUNCIL FURMAN, THANK YOU MAYOR. 
          AND I WILL TRY AND SHORTEN MY, UH, COMMENTS, UH, PER YOUR REQUEST. 
          I THINK I'VE DONE IT JUST ABOUT HALF, BUT I WROTE 'EM DOWN BECAUSE I'VE GIVEN THIS PROJECT A LOT OF THOUGHT OVER MANY WEEKS. 
          , AS YOU MIGHT UNDERSTAND. 
          AND, UH, I'M GONNA FIRST START THOUGH BY JUST THROWING OUT THERE TO MY FRIEND AND FELLOW COUNSELOR FOLTZ, THAT ALTHOUGH SPAS, HE, HE SAID SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF, ALTHOUGH SPAS AREN'T MENTIONED, THEY MIGHT WORK AND THEY MIGHT, BUT IT'S INTERESTING THAT THE PROS THAT PUT TOGETHER THE CODE HAVEN'T OPINED ON THAT YET. 
          AND SO I, YOU KNOW, I, I KIND OF RELY ON SOME OF THEIR GUIDANCE. 
          SO THE INTENT OF MY COMMENTS AND ACTIONS, UH, TONIGHT ARE AIMED IN PART AT AFFECTING CULTURAL CHANGE. 
          HOW TO GET OUR BUSINESSES AND OUR RESIDENTS AND OUR VISITORS TO BETTER ORIENT THEMSELVES TO OUR COMMUNITY'S EXPECTATIONS AROUND SUSTAINABILITY. 
          I LOOK FORWARD TO THE DAY WHEN MORE PEOPLE SAY, THIS IS SEDONA. 
          WE'RE GONNA GO ABOVE AND BEYOND THE STANDARDS IN TERMS OF SUSTAINABILITY, ENERGY, EFFICIENCY, WATER USE BY OUR OWN CHOICE. 
          MY LOOK AT OUR LDC AS A MINIMUM STANDARD. 
          WE WANT PROJECTS AND PEOPLE TO VOLUNTARILY GO BEYOND WHAT WE PUT IN OUR LDC. 
          THE BURDEN SHOULD NOT BE ONLY ON THE CITY TO IMPLEMENT ENFORCE RULES. 
          WE WON'T AFFECT CHANGE THAT WAY. 
          SO OUR COMMUNITY PLAN HAS AT LEAST NINE REFERENCES TO PROTECTING, UH, THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER USE IN CHAPTER FIVE ENVIRONMENT. 
          AND THEN INCLUDES THE GOAL, THE GOAL OF ENSURING A SUFFICIENT SUPPLY OF QUALITY WATER FOR OUR FUTURE. 
          THE CHAPTER ALSO INCLUDES THE STATEMENT THAT WATER DEMAND WILL EXCEED SUPPLY BY 2050. 
          AND I'LL REMIND EVERYBODY THAT THAT PLAN WAS DEVELOPED AND APPROVED BY COUNCIL IN 2013. 
          SO THE DATA GOES FROM BEFORE THAT TO SOME, TO SOME MEASURE. 
          UH, I PERSONALLY AM NOT WILLING TO WAIT TILL 2050 AND THE EMERGENCY HITS US TO CONFRONT THE SITUATION. 
          AND THERE ARE SEVERAL MORE REFERENCES TO WATER USE AND SUSTAINABILITY IN OUR CLIMATE ACTION 
          [02:10:01]
PLAN. 
          AS OF COURSE, YOU WOULD EXPECT OUR COMMUNITY AT ALMOST EVERY OPPORTUNITY CONTINUES TO PRIORITIZE ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY. 
          AND I'M SURPRISED AND A LITTLE SHOCKED WHEN AS A PLANNING IS ON A COMMISSIONER AND NOW AS A COUNSELOR, THAT ANY DEVELOPMENT COMES BEFORE US, DOESN'T AT LEAST ATTEMPT TO ADDRESS THE SUSTAINABILITY ISSUES. 
          THE APPLICATION PACKET THAT CAME TO P AND Z AND WAS NOW BEFORE US, UH, DIDN'T UNTIL TONIGHT  ADDRESS EFFICIENCY OR CONSERVATION OR WATER USE REDUCTION IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY. 
          THIS ALSO, THIS PROJECT DOES NOT ADVANCE OUR COMMUNITY PLAN MAJOR OUTCOMES OF ECONOMIC DIVERSITY AND THE MAJOR OUTCOME OF REDUCED TRAFFIC. 
          IN FACT, THIS BEING A NEW ATTRACTION IS LOCATED IN ONE OF THE MOST PARKING AND TRAFFIC IMPACTED AREAS OF OUR CITY. 
          SO NOW, HERE I GO. 
          THIS IS GONNA STEP ON SOME LANDMINES, AND I KNOW THAT I DON'T SEE EYE TO EYE IN ALL MY COUNCIL MEMBERS ON THIS, BUT I THINK THAT L D C 8.3 POINT E 0.5 C SAYS THAT PROJECTS MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH OUR COMMUNITY PLAN AND OTHER PLANS LIKE THE CLIMATE ACTION PLAN. 
          IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE LDC DOES NOT SAY THAT PROJECTS SHOULD BE CONSISTENT ONLY WITH THOSE ELEMENTS OF THE COMMUNITY PLAN THAT WE IMPLEMENTED IN THE LDC. 
          IT DOESN'T SAY THAT THAT WOULD BE A CIRCULAR, CIRCULAR ARGUMENT. 
          AND DUPLICATIVE, SINCE LDC 83 E FIVE D REQUIRES IT PROJECTS BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE LDC. 
          SO BECAUSE D IS THERE, YOU KNOW, C HAS MORE MEAT IN IT THAN I THINK WE GIVE IT CREDIT FOR. 
          I CONTEND THAT LDC 83 E FIVE C POINTS ONE AND TWO GIVE THE COUNCIL THE ABILITY TO WEIGH AT PROJECTS, CONSISTENCY WITH THE COMMUNITY PLAN AND OTHER PLANS, AND TO BALANCE THE MANY AND SOMETIMES COMPETING GOALS WITHIN THOSE PLANS, AND TO WEIGH THEM AGAINST THE PROJECT'S COMMUNITY BENEFITS. 
          IT'S CLEAR THAT WE CAN'T REQUIRE COMPLIANCE IF IT'S NOT IN THE LDC, IF, BUT IF THE PUBLIC IS NOT BENEFITING IN SOME MEANINGFUL WAY, WE DON'T HAVE TO APPROVE THE PROJECT. 
          AS I READ LDC A C 83 E FIVE C, FOR ME, THIS PROJECT DOESN'T MEET THE BALANCING CONSISTENCY TEST SPECIFIED IN LDC 83 E FIVE C. 
          UNTIL TONIGHT, THERE WAS NO DOCUMENTED EFFORT BY THE APPLICANT TO ADDRESS THE MULTIPLE SITE IN THE ENVIRONMENTAL ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY AND WATER USE IN OUR COMMUNITY PLAN. 
          AND THE PROJECT DIDN'T ADDRESS THE COMMUNITY MAJOR PLAN OUTCOMES OF ECONOMIC DIVERSITY AND REDUCED TRAFFIC. 
          THE PUBLIC BENEFITS OFFERED BY THE PROJECT LISTED IN THE DISCUSSION WE HAD TONIGHT, INCLUDING SIDEWALK, POSSIBLE FUTURE SHUTTLE STOP MEMORIALIZING SOME, BUT IT'S A REDUCED AMOUNT OF TRAILHEAD PARKING THAT IS CURRENTLY BEING USED AND SOME OTHER GOALS THAT THE APPLICANT PUT OUT. 
          I THINK THOSE ARE INADEQUATE. 
          SO THAT'S MY COMMENTS, MARY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          COUNCIL FERMAN. 
          COUNCIL WILLIAMSON, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THERE ARE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS FOR MAKING OUR DECISION TO APPROVE OR DISAPPROVE A DEVELOPMENT REVIEW APPLICATION. 
          AND THOSE REQUIREMENTS ARE BASED ON OUR COMPLIANCE WITH EXISTING RULES AND GUIDELINES. 
          UM, NOT OUR OPINIONS OF WHAT THOSE SHOULD BE, OR OUR READINGS OF HOW WE THINK WE WOULD LIKE TO READ SOME VARIOUS ELEMENTS, UM, THAT, THAT DO EXIST NOW. 
          IT'S A PRETTY LIMITED, UM, AND IT ALSO IS NOT REALLY PR I MEAN, IT'S REALLY BASED ON WHAT'S WRITTEN DOWN, NOT ON SORT OF PROMOTING CHANGES IN A CULTURE, UM, OVER, YOU KNOW, OVER TIME. 
          THAT'S REALLY NOT, NOT A GOAL OF APPROVING ANYTHING, UH, OR A LEGAL BASIS AS I UNDERSTAND IT, FOR APPROVING OR DISAPPROVING ANY OF THESE, UM, LEGAL ACTIONS. 
          UM, THE DOCUMENTS THAT CAN BE CHANGED AND THEY SHOULD BE CHANGED, BUT DEVELOPERS HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE TO BUILD THEY 
          [02:15:01]
OWN PROPERTY. 
          THIS PROPERTY IS GOING TO BE DEVELOPED. 
          UM, AND I UNDERSTAND NA, NOBODY EVER WANTS ANYTHING BUILT NEXT TO THEM, PERIOD. 
          IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT IT IS, EXCEPT PERHAPS A CEMETERY. 
          UH, BUT I'M SURE THAT THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO WOULDN'T LIKE THAT EITHER. 
          I MEAN, I LIKE MY VACANT FIELDS WHEN THE WHOLE HOUSE NEXT TO ME BEGAN TO BE BUILT. 
          YOU KNOW, IT WAS, I DIDN'T LIKE IT, BUT IT'S NOT MY PROPERTY. 
          AND IN THIS CASE, THIS IS GOING TO BE DEVELOPED. 
          UM, WE SHOULD CHANGE OUR DOCUMENTS TO MEET OUR, OUR EXPECTATIONS OF WHAT DEVELOPERS HAVE TO DO. 
          BUT THAT IS NOT IN PLACE NOW. 
          UM, WATER ISN'T A LEGAL CONDITION FOR APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL. 
          UM, UH, ALICIA ADMITTED SHE HASN'T, IT ISN'T REALLY SPECIFIC IN THE PLANT. 
          MY UNDERSTANDING FROM THE WATER COMPANY IS SEDONA ITSELF IS PLENTY OF WATER. 
          UM, WHILE THERE'S A DROUGHT, UM, STATEWIDE, WE HAVE WATER, UM, THAT HAS TO BE RE THAT HAS TO BE DISCUSSED. 
          IT HAS TO BE ADDRESSED. 
          JUST SAYING WE HAVE TO CONSERVE WATER BECAUSE SOMEWHERE SOMEONE DOESN'T HAVE ANY DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME. 
          UM, I THINK THAT THE DEVELOPER ACTUALLY, UM, THEY PROACTIVELY REDUCE THEIR WATER USE. 
          THEY COULDN'T COME WITH THE STANDARD POOL AND WE COULD'VE SAID, YOU HAVE TO REDUCE YOUR WATER USE. 
          AND HE COULD'VE SAID, OH, WELL NOW WE'RE GONNA HIRE THIS GREAT GUY, THE POOL GUY WHO'S GOING TO DO ALL THESE AMAZING, WONDERFUL THINGS TO REDUCE WATER USE AND MAKE SURE IT'S THE MOST EFFICIENT AS POSSIBLE. 
          BUT THEY PROACTIVELY DID THAT AND SORT OF DEMANDING THAT NOW THEY ARE HELD TO A DIFFERENT STANDARD. 
          LEGALLY THEY DID WHAT'S REQUIRED OF THEM TO DO. 
          AND OUR, AND AND OUR ROLE IN THIS IS ACTUALLY PRETTY LIMITED. 
          ALTHOUGH I KNOW THAT PEOPLE, UM, WHO SHARE THE DAY IS WITH ME, DON'T REALLY NECESSARILY AGREE WITH THAT. 
          UM, THERE WERE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER THERE'S ANY PUBLIC BENEFIT THAT'S SORT OF INTERESTING WHEN WE ALL KIND OF ARGUE THAT WE NEED TO PRESERVE OUR PUBLIC SPACE OR OUR PO UH, OPEN SPACE. 
          BUT WHEN A DEVELOPER COMES AND PRESERVES OPEN SPACE, WE SAY, WELL, THAT'S NOT REALLY ENOUGH OF A PUBLIC BENEFIT. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, WE ALWAYS, WE ALWAYS HAVE OUR REASONS FOR WHAT WE SAY, BUT THEY, THEY DID DO OPEN SPACE. 
          29% IS A PRETTY SMALL COVERAGE. 
          UM, THEY TOOK AWAY, THEY WORKED WITH THE COMMUNITY. 
          THEY TOOK AWAY THE VILLAS. 
          THE VILLAS WERE GOING TO, I ASSUME BE PARTICULARLY LUCRATIVE. 
          THEY TOOK 'EM AWAY. 
          THEY'RE NOT HAVING THE OBSERVATION DECK AT THE REQUEST OF PEOPLE. 
          THEY, UM, THEY HAVE THE POOL DESIGN WATER USE. 
          THEY'RE BUILDING A SHUTTLE STOP, WHICH IN OUR LONG RANGE GOALS IS, IS PART OF THE ANSWER TO THE TRAFFIC AND PARKING ISSUE. 
          WE ALWAYS ALSO TALK ABOUT, OH, WE DON'T WANT ANY MORE PARKING CUZ WE DON'T WANT TO ENCOURAGE CARS EXCEPT WHEN WE DO WANT MORE PARKING, UM, AND ENCOURAGE CARS. 
          THEY, WE HAVE ZERO ESCAPING HERE, WHICH, HEY, YOU KNOW, IS THAT A CONSERVATION ISSUE OR NOT? IS THAT A, IS THAT A SUSTAINABILITY ISSUE OR NOT? THEY ADDED PLANTING, OF COURSE, NOW THEY HAVE TO WATER IT. 
           SO DOES, HOW DO YOU WEIGH THAT IN SUSTAINABILITY? YOU KNOW, YOU WEIGH IT, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE TO WATER IT, BUT THEY PUT IT IN AND NOW THERE'S MORE PLANTING BECAUSE THE COMMUNITY WANTED IT. 
          IT'S NOT REALLY EVER JUST ABOUT EITHER WATER OR PERMEABLE PAVERS OR PLANTING. 
          IT'S REALLY A MORE COMPLEX ANALYSIS. 
          AND I WOULD SAY THAT ALL OF THOSE ARE, ARE PUBLIC BENEFITS. 
          THEY BENEFIT SEDONA IN TERMS OF PERMEABLE PAVING, ZERO ESCAPING, UM, THE PLANTINGS, THE SHUTTLE STOP, THE TRAILHEAD PARKING. 
          I THINK THOSE ARE PUBLIC BENEFITS. 
          COULD THERE BE MORE? SURE, THERE COULD, COULD ALWAYS BE MORE. 
          UM, AND THEY WILL BE REQUIRED TO MEET WHATEVER REQUIREMENTS ADOT HAS. 
          AND WHILE WE CAN ALL BE TRAFFIC ENGINEERS FOR AN AFTERNOON, WE AREN'T TRAFFIC ENGINEERS. 
          ADOT IS WHO WE RELY ON. 
          THEY'RE, WE CAN SAY THERE'S, THAT SEEMS TO ME A LOT OF CARS, BUT ADOT IS THE ONE WHO ACTUALLY MAKES THAT DETERMINATION. 
          AND, AND THEY WILL HAVE TO DO WHATEVER ADOT TELLS THEM TO DO. 
          IF ADOT TELLS THEM THEY HAVE TO RECONSTRUCT 
          [02:20:01]
THE ENTIRE INTERSECTION AT SOBAR AT 1 79, THAT'S WHAT THEY'LL HAVE TO DO. 
          UM, AND I THINK THIS MEETS A NUMBER OF THE COMMUNITY PLAN OBJECTION, OBJECTIVES. 
          DOES IT MEET EVERY SINGLE ONE AS ALL OF US INDIVIDUALLY DEFINE EVERY OBJECTIVE OF THIS ASPIRATIONAL DOCUMENT? MAYBE, MAYBE NOT. 
          I'M SURE YOU CAN MAKE ARGUMENTS EITHER WAY FOR ALL OF IT. 
          BUT I THINK CERTAINLY THE, THE SPECIFIC ONES OF THE BUFFER, WHICH IS A COMMUNITY PLAN OBJECTIVE AND A PEDESTRIAN, WHATEVER IT WAS, ACCESS OR SOMETHING, WAS ALSO A COMMUNITY PLAN OBJECTIVE. 
          YOU KNOW, DOES THAT COUNT FOR NOTHING? UM, AND I, I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE A FAIRLY, FOR ME, I THINK IT'S VERY, VERY HELPFUL TO EXPRESS AND EXPLAIN THE HIGHER LEVEL OF, OF DEVELOPMENT APPLICATIONS THAT WE WANT. 
          BUT I THINK IT'S EVEN MORE USEFUL FOR US TO CHANGE OUR DOCUMENTS TO REFLECT THAT SO THAT THE DEVELOPERS KNOW WHAT OUR EXPECTATIONS ARE. 
          AND DON'T FIND OUT FROM US, UM, AT THE LAST MINUTE AT THE DAIS, BECAUSE NEXT MONTH ANOTHER DEVELOPER WILL HAVE DEVELOPED AN ENTIRE PROJECT BASED ON THE EXPECTA, ON THE WRITTEN LEGAL REQUIREMENTS, , AND THEN FIND OUT, OH, WE WANT YOU TO DO MORE. 
          SO THAT'S, I I AGREE WITH BRIAN. 
          I'M, UM, I THINK THERE, I I WANT TO APPROVE IT WITH A, A COUPLE OF ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS ABOUT THE PARKING AND ABOUT, UM, THERE WERE A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS THAT PEOPLE HAD MENTIONED. 
          OH, ABOUT THEY'D HAVE TO BUILD MORE, UH, PARKING IF, IF A DOT TRAFFIC STUDY RECOMMEND, OR IF, IF IT PROVED PARKING, THE SHARED PARKING PROVED IN, IN IN COM, UH, NOT ENOUGH IN THE FUTURE. 
          AND THE THIRD ABOUT THE POOL USING THIS PARTICULAR POOL DESIGNER. 
          UM, SO THAT'S WHERE I COME OUT. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 
          UM, EVERYBODY ELSE HAS SPOKEN FOR NOW, RIGHT? SO I'M GOING TO, UH, FINISH UP. 
          UM, IT'S, IM, IT'S INTERESTING. 
          WE SEE THIS LAND USE, UH, CONCERNS FROM NEIGHBORS. 
          OFTEN PEOPLE SAY, YOU KNOW, THEY BUY NEXT TO A COMMERCIAL LOT, ENJOY THAT COMMERCIAL LOT, MAYBE 20, 30 YEARS UNTIL THEY DON'T, BECAUSE SOMEONE'S GONNA BUILD ON THAT LOT. 
          IT'S THE NATURE OF THE BEAST. 
          IT'S GONNA BE HAPPENING, UH, UH, IN SEDONA. 
          I LOST SOME NEIGHBORS BECAUSE OF THAT. 
          SOMEBODY BUILT ACROSS THE STREET FROM THEM, AND THEY BLAME ME FOR ALLOWING IT. 
          I THINK I WAS ON COUNCIL OF P D AT THE TIME. 
          IT'S JUST GOING TO HAPPEN. 
          UH, BUT WE, WE SHOULD BE PREPARED FOR THAT. 
          THINGS HAPPEN, OKAY? WATER USAGE HAS ALREADY BEEN ADDRESSED AND YOU'VE ALREADY, UH, SPOKEN ABOUT HOW YOU, THE PROCESS AND MECHANICS ARE GOING TO REDUCE. 
          I GET THAT. 
          UH, WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT HERE IS STAFF IS SUPPORTING, UH, THE PROJECT. 
          I THINK, UH, THAT, SIR, YOU'RE, YOU'RE VERY CORRECT. 
          WE HAVE OUR STAFF, UH, THEY GAVE THEIR REPORT AND IT GOES TO A LITANY OF, UH, POINTS BEFORE THEY CAN, THEY CAN EVEN DO THAT, UH, IN CONSIDERING WHAT ELSE COULD BE BUILT THERE. 
          AND I THINK YOUR, YOUR PRESENTATION WAS REALLY CLEAR. 
          UH, WHAT CAN BE BUILT THERE. 
          WE'VE SEEN DIFFERENT THINGS. 
          UH, WE'VE HAD DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS. 
          I THINK THIS IS THE LEAST OF THE EVILS NOT TO PUT DOWN YOUR PROJECT, BUT YOU KNOW, OF WHAT COULD BE BUILT THERE. 
          SO I, UH, WILL BE SUPPORTING THIS PROJECT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO, UH, I KNOW VICE MAYOR, YOU HAVEN'T SPOKEN YET, COUNSEL KINSELLA, YOU HAVEN'T SPOKEN YET, UH, BEFORE WE, UH, YOU WANT TO MAKE MOTIONS BEFORE YOU SPEAK, OR, WELL, I THINK I'LL SPEAK JUST, YEAH, JUST VERY BRIEFLY. 
          I'M JUST VERY CONCERNED HERE ABOUT THE, UH, 1100 CARS A DAY AND THE IMPACT ON WHAT I THINK IS THE MOST CONGESTED CORRIDOR IN SEDONA. 
          AND ALSO THE INSUFFICIENT PARKING IS OF CONCERN TO ME. 
          UM, AND, UH, BACK TO THE TRAFFICKER FOR A SECOND AS WELL, ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF, I KNOW THAT YOU, I FEEL BAD FOR YOU ABOUT THE TIMING, BUT YOU KNOW, I, HAVING ADOT ANALYSIS FIRST WOULD BE HELPFUL. 
          I DON'T KNOW HOW WE COULD CHANGE THAT CLOCK. 
          AND THAT'S CERTAINLY NOT ON THE TABLE HERE, BUT IT'S, IT'S TOO BAD THAT THE ADOT STUFF CAN'T COME FORWARD AT THE TIME OF CONSIDERATION. 
          BUT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT, CONCERNED ABOUT THE PARKING, AND I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE LACK OF COMMUNITY PLAN CONFORMITY, ESPECIALLY IN THE AREA OF TRYING TO REDUCE TRAFFIC. 
          CAUSE I DON'T THINK ATTEMPTS ARE MADE TO REALLY REDUCE TRAFFIC HERE. 
          YOU MAY HAVE MADE ATTEMPTS AT SOME OTHER THINGS IN THE PROJECT 
          [02:25:01]
IS, IS LOVELY. 
          AND IF YOU END UP BUILDING, UM, I'D LOVE TO COME OVER AS A CUSTOMER SOMEDAY. 
          BUT, UH, I HAVE TO SAY, I DON'T THINK THAT THERE WERE ANY ATTEMPTS AT REDUCING TRAFFIC MADE IN, IN THIS. 
          UM, AND ALSO THAT'S NOT, DOESN'T MEET ECONOMIC DIVERSITY. 
          SO THOSE ARE MY CONCERNS ABOUT THE PROJECT. 
          OKAY. 
          VICE MAYOR. 
          YEAH, I, I AGREE. 
          I I I JUST CAN'T SUPPORT A PROJECT THAT PUTS MORE CARS ON THE 1 79 IN THE AREA THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. 
          I, I JUST CAN'T DO IT. 
          IT IS THE WORST. 
          I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OF YOU LIVE IN SEDONA, BUT IT IS THE WORST CONGESTION WE HAVE. 
          WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO REDUCE THAT. 
          A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE A LOT OF IDEAS. 
          WE HAVE A LOT OF IDEAS. 
          WE'RE PUTTING THEM INTO PLAY, BUT THEY'RE NOT THERE. 
          THIS IS HOURS OF BACKED UP TRAFFIC ON A REGULAR BASIS, NOT JUST IN THE SPRINGTIME, NOT JUST IN THE FALL, BUT ON ANY SATURDAY OR SUNDAY. 
          YOU COULD BE SITTING THERE FOR 45 MINUTES EASILY. 
          AND NOW WE'RE ADDING MORE CARS. 
          SO WHILE I DON'T BUY AT ALL THE FACT THAT WE COULD REDUCE THE PARKING BY 38% BECAUSE OF THE MIXED USE, MULTI-USE, I DON'T BUY IT. 
          UH, IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A FORMULA, BUT IT'S NOT BASED IN THE REALITY OF THIS SITUATION THAT IS LESS ABOUT PARKING AND MORE ABOUT HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE COMING. 
          SO I THINK WE'VE UNDERESTIMATED THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WILL BE COMING TO THE SPA. 
          I THINK THE SPA'S A GREAT AMENITY, UH, THAT ARE NOT GONNA BE FROM ARABELLA, THAT ARE GONNA BE FROM OTHER HOTELS, ARE GONNA BE FROM THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE TO USE THIS FACILITY. 
          SO I THINK GREATLY UNDERESTIMATING THE TRAFFIC, UH, THAT'S GONNA BE GENERATED. 
          AND I DO APPRECIATE THAT THERE WILL BE A SHUTTLE STOP, BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT YEARS FROM NOW WHEN WE'LL HAVE SHUTTLES THAT WILL BE IN THAT CORRIDOR. 
          IT'S NOT IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS. 
          IT'S YEARS AWAY. 
          SO IT'S A GOOD FUTURE BENEFIT. 
          IT'S NOT A CURRENT BENEFIT. 
          AND WE CURRENTLY ARE CONGESTED IN THAT AREA BEYOND E ACCEPT ACCEPTABILITY TO ME. 
          SO I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING THIS PROJECT FOR THOSE REASONS. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, I NEED A MOTION. 
          I'LL MAKE A MOTION. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, I MOVE, I WILL USE THE THIRD ONE, RIGHT? NO, WHY NOT? I WANNA ADD CONDITIONS. 
          OH, YOU DIDN'T SAY THAT THEN. 
          YES, , I'M SORRY. 
          NOT THAT IT'S, UM, I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER A P P E 22 DASH 0 0 0 0 3 APPEAL, THEREBY REVERSING PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION'S, DENIAL OF CASE NUMBER PZ 21,000 OH OH NINE, UH, DEV ARABELLA SPA AT 95 SOBAR LANE, BASED ON COMPLIANCE WITH ALL ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS OF L D Z SECTION 8.3 AND 8.4, AND SATISFACTION OF THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW FINDINGS AND APPLICABLE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REQUIREMENTS AS OUTLINED IN THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION STAFF REPORT, WHICH STAFF REPORT IS HEREBY ADOPTED AS THE FINDINGS OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL AND THE FOLLOWING EDITION. 
          OH, UM, CONDITIONS, AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE TOO MUCH TIME ON THIS SINCE I DON'T THINK IT'S GONNA PASS, UM, THAT THE DEVELOPER WILL ADD PARKING IF THE SHARED PARKING PROVES INSUFFICIENT, THAT THE DEVELOPER PROCEED WITH USING THE POOL DESIGNER. 
          AND I DON'T REMEMBER THE THIRD ONE. 
          WHAT WAS THE THIRD ONE? UH, IF ADOT REQUIRES ANY OTHER, IF A, I THINK THAT'S ALREADY IN THERE, RIGHT? THAT'S ALREADY A CONDITION THAT'S ALREADY IN THERE. 
          SO THERE WAS A THIRD ONE THAT I DON'T REMEMBER, SO I'M DONE WITH IT. 
          ANY SECONDS? SECOND. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. 
          AYE. 
          AYE. 
          THOSE OPPOSED? NO. 
          OKAY. 
          SO WITH THREE TO THREE, UH, IT FAILS REASONS, SAY THE, SAY THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR IT AND AGAINST IT. 
          YES. 
          I'M SORRY. 
          UH, COUNCILOR WILLIAMSON, MYSELF AND COUNCILOR FIR FALSE. 
          UH, YEAH, I KNOW, I KNOW. 
          LOOK AT THIS. 
          SIX 30, UH, SUPPORTED AND FURMAN, UH, COUNCILOR, UH, 
          [02:30:01]
KINSELLA AND THE VICE MAYOR VOTED NO. 
          SO I'LL ADD TO THE RECORD THE REASONS FOR MY VOTE OF NO IS IT DOES NOT MEET THE APPROVAL OF CRITERIA LDC 83 E FIVE C CONSISTENCY, NO, I'M SORRY, I'M GONNA START OVER. 
          STRIKE ALL OF THAT. 
          IT DOES NOT MEET THE APPROVAL OF CRITERIA. 
          LDC FIVE FIVE E TWO B PARKING AND LOADING DEMAND STUDY THE LDC ALLOWS FOR, BUT DOES NOT REQUIRE AN INTERNAL CAPTURE CREDIT FOR PARKING. 
          THE AUTHORIZATION OF THE 38% CREDIT REDUCTION DOESN'T ADHERE TO THE STANDARDS FOR WHICH IT WAS DEVELOPED, AND THE PROJECT SHOULD BE SUBJECT TO A HIGHER LEVEL OF SCRUTINY FOR PARKING AND TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS. 
          COUNCILOR KINSELLA? YES. 
          UH, MY NO VOTE IS BASED ON MY FINDINGS THAT THE PROJECT WILL HAVE, UM, A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON TRAFFIC IN THAT CORRIDOR WITH 1100 DAILY TRIPS PROJECTED A DAY, AND INSUFFICIENT TRAFFIC ANALYSIS, UH, INSUFFICIENT PARKING, AND THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT IT, UH, THE PROPOSAL, UH, IT LACKS COMMUNITY PLAN CONFORMITY IN THE AREAS OF TRAFFIC REDUCTION AND ECONOMIC DIVERSITY. 
          AND VICE MAYOR, I CONCUR WITH MY COLLEAGUES WHO VOTED NO. 
          OKAY. 
          ALL RIGHT, THEN HEARING, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE? OKAY. 
          HEARING NOTHING ELSE, THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED.
* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.