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[1. CALL TO ORDER, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIENCE, ROLL CALL]
AFTERNOON EVERYONE.THIS IS THE CITY OF SONO PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING.
IT'S TUESDAY, MARCH THIR 21ST DOWN.
UM, PLEASE RISE WITH ME FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
MY PLEDGE, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
OR I'M SORRY, COMMISSIONER HURST
[2. ANNOUNCEMENTS & SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY COMMISSIONERS & STAFF]
MOVE ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO, ANNOUNCEMENTS AND SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF.ANY COMMISSIONERS HAVE AN ANNOUNCEMENT TO MAKE STAFF? YEAH, I HAVE A COUPLE THINGS.
IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE WE MET AND THE TIME BEING THE, UM, ARABELLA SPA PROJECT DID, UM, WAS APPEALED TO CITY COUNCIL.
THEY ENDED IN A THREE THREE VOTE, SAME AS PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, BUT, UM, ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS OR COUNCIL MEMBERS HAS ASKED THAT IT BE BROUGHT BACK TO THE COUNCIL FOR RECONSIDERATION.
WE'RE TARGETING A DATE AT THE END OF APRIL FOR THAT.
UM, SO, UM, WE'LL KEEP YOU UPDATED JUST AS A PROJECT THAT YOU GUYS HAVE SEEN.
I ALSO DID WANT TO INTRODUCE OUR NEW STAFF MEMBER, ELIZABETH MILWAUKEE.
UM, SHE STARTED WITH THE CITY ABOUT A MONTH AGO AND IS DOING GREAT.
AND HOPEFULLY YOU'LL SEE HER WITH SOME, UM, PROJECTS BEFORE THE COMMISSION.
SHE COMES TO US FROM YAVAPAI COUNTY WHERE SHE WAS WORKING IN THE HYDROLOGY DEPARTMENT.
ANYTHING ELSE? THANKS FOR THAT UPDATE ON ARABELLA.
I'LL CLOSE THAT ITEM AND MOVE ON
[3. APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES:]
TO NUMBER THREE, APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES OF THE JANUARY 3RD, 2023 REGULAR MEETING.NOW MOVE APPROVAL OF THE JANUARY 3RD, 2023 MINUTES.
OPPOSED? THE MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.
UH, MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER FOUR, PUBLIC FORUM.
THIS IS THE TIME FOR THE PUBLIC TO COMMENT ON MATTERS NOT LISTED ON THE AGENDA.
THE COMMISSION MAY NOT DISCUSS ITEMS THAT ARE NOT SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED ON THE AGENDA PURSUANT TO ARS SECTION 38 DASH 4 31 0.01 H.
ACTION TAKEN AS A RESULT OF PUBLIC COMMENT WILL BE LIMITED TO DIRECTING STAFF TO STUDY THE MANNER RESPONDING TO CRITICISM OR SCHEDULING THE MATTER FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION AND DECISION AT A LATER DATE.
IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT WISHES TO SPEAK TO THIS ITEM? NO.
[5. Update/discussion regarding the Community Plan Update.]
WE'LL MOVE ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE, UPDATE DISCUSSION REGARDING THE COMMUNITY PLAN UPDATE.UH, THIS WILL BE A BRIEF UPDATE ON ONE TOPIC.
UH, OUR NEXT, UH, COMMUNITY WORKSHOP MEETING IS GOING TO BE APRIL 5TH.
UM, WE WILL S THE PRESS RELEASE WILL GO OUT TOMORROW, SO YOU WILL START SEEING, UM, THE ADVERTISING FOR THAT, UH, IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS.
UM, LOT OF SOCIAL MEDIA POSTINGS, ET CETERA.
UM, SO THE TOPIC OF OUR WORKSHOP, WELL FIRST, UH, THE TIME AND LOCATION, IT WILL BE APRIL 5TH, STARTING AT FOUR 30.
THE ACTUAL PROGRAM WILL START AT FIVE, UM, UNTIL SEVEN OR SEVEN 30.
AND THIS TIME IT WILL BE AT THE WEST SEDONA SCHOOL, THE CAFETERIA, UM, AUDITORIUM BUILT OR ROOM.
UM, SO THIS WILL BE FOCUSED ON LAND USE WITH HOUSING AS REALLY THE FOCAL POINT OF, OF THE EVENING.
UM, AND ONE OF THE MAIN OBJECTIVES HERE IS TO UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF HOUSING IN CREATING A LIVABLE SEDONA AND THE IMPLICATIONS OF NOT CHANGING THE HOUSING SITUATION IN SEDONA.
UM, SO I JUST WANTED TO READ THAT TO, UM, EMPHASIZE THAT OUR GOAL, OUR MAIN GOAL OF THIS IS REALLY TO GET THE COMMUNITY TO UNDERSTAND, UM, WHERE WE ARE AT IN LAND
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USE AND ALSO OUR HOUSING SITUATION, AND THEN HOW THAT COULD CHANGE OVER THE NEXT YEAR, 10 YEARS.UM, NOT TO MENTION HOW IT HAS CHANGED
UM, SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE, UM, SHANNON, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ALL HAVE MET SHANNON BOONE.
SO, UM, SHE'LL GIVE A PRESENTATION ABOUT HOUSING AND THEN I WILL PRESENT ON LAND USE.
AND AGAIN, IT'LL BE, UM, STARTING WITH THE BASICS AND WE'LL HA WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON A SERIES OF MAPS, UM, THAT WILL SHOW EVERYTHING FROM LIKE OPEN SPACE TO THE VACANT PROPERTIES THAT ARE LEFT.
UM, HOW MUCH DO WE HAVE LEFT TO BUILD? UM, HOW MUCH LIKE RESIDENTIAL BUILDOUT, WHERE ARE WE AT WITH THAT IN COMMERCIAL BUILDOUT? UM, SO I'LL JUST GIVE AN OVERVIEW, BASIC, UM, PRESENTATION ON LAND USE, A LOT OF MAPS, LOTS OF DATA.
UH, SHANNON WILL DO THE SAME SPECIFIC TO HOUSING.
UH, THEN WE'RE GONNA HAVE TWO OF OUR VOLUNTEERS FROM THE WORK GROUP ARE ALSO GOING TO SPEAK FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES ABOUT HOUSING, HOW HOUSING MATTERS TO, UM, RESIDENTS.
AND THAT WILL BE JOHN SAYER AND LINDA MARTINEZ.
AND THEN WE WILL BREAK OUT INTO, UM, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TABLES AND EVERYBODY WILL SIT DOWN AT A TABLE.
UM, AND THEN WE'LL HAVE SOME INTERACTIVE DISCUSSIONS, UH, KIND OF WORKSHOP STYLE, UM, AND THEN THE BEFORE AND AFTER.
SO IF YOU SHOW UP AT FOUR 30, UM, WE WILL HAVE A BUNCH OF INFORMATION STATION SET UP.
SO THERE'S A LITTLE SIMILARITY TO OUR LAST MEETING WITH THAT.
UM, OR PEOPLE CAN LEAVE COMMENTS, ASK QUESTIONS, ET CETERA.
SO THAT WILL BE APRIL 5TH, AND I HOPE YOU ALL CAN MAKE IT.
ARE THERE ANY, UH, QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION FOR CYNTHIA? NOPE.
THANK YOU FOR THE UPDATE AND THE INVITE.
WELL CLOSE THAT ITEM AND MOVED ON TO AGENDA
[6A. Public hearing/discussion/possible action regarding proposed revisions to the Sedona Land Development Code. The proposed revisions include revisions to better reflect the intent of the Code and goals of the Sedona Community Plan, typographical, clerical and other corrections, changes for purposes of clarification, and elimination of redundancies. Case Number: PZ23-00002 (LDC) Applicant: City of Sedona]
NUMBER SIX, CONSIDERATION OF THE FOLLOWING ITEMS THROUGH PUBLIC HEARING PROCEDURES, A PUBLIC HEARING DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING PROPOSED REVISIONS TO THE SEDONA LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.THE PROPO PROPOSED REVISIONS INCLUDE REVISIONS TO BETTER REFLECT THE INTENT OF THE CODE AND GOALS OF THE SEDONA COMMUNITY PLAN, TYPOGRAPHICAL, CLERICAL, AND OTHER CORRECTIONS CHANGES FOR PURPOSES OF CLARIFICATION AND ELIMINATION OF REDUNDANCIES.
THIS IS CASE NUMBER PC 23 2, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
APPLICANT IS THE CITY OF SEDONA WITH CARRIE PRESENTING.
SO I DON'T HAVE ANY PRESENTATION OR POWERPOINT OR ANYTHING, BUT JUST WANNA JUST SAY A COUPLE THINGS.
UM, SO THIS ITEM ALLOWS FOR DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING THE PROPOSED LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENTS.
UM, AS STATED IN, UM, THE AGENDA LANGUAGE, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENTS ARE PROPOSED FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS AND ARE BROUGHT FORWARD, UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE TRY TO GROUP THEM SO YOU'RE NOT CONSTANTLY SEEING NEW UPDATES AND YOU CAN KIND OF EVALUATE THEM AS A GROUP.
UM, BUT THERE'S NO NECESSARILY SCHEDULE OR ANYTHING LIKE YOU MIGHT SEE WITH THE, THE MAJOR COMMUNITY PLAN AMENDMENT WHERE WE'RE LIMITED IN WHAT WE CAN DO WITH, UM, CODE CHANGES.
UM, GENERALLY, UM, JUST SO YOU KNOW, THE PROCESS THAT GOES INTO GETTING IT TO THIS POINT IS THAT, UM, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CHANGES ARE IDENTIFIED EITHER BY STAFF, AND THAT INCLUDES OUR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT STAFF, ALONG WITH OUR HOUSING STAFF, OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT STAFF, PUBLIC WORKS, UM, ALL STAFF IN THE CITY.
UM, WE WORK WITH, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE DEPARTMENTS AND KIND OF IDENTIFY HOW CAN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE HELP THEM IN ACHIEVING THE GOALS THAT THEY'VE BEEN, UM, ASSIGNED BY THE COUNCIL.
UM, AND THEN WE GO THROUGH A VETTING AND REVIEW PROCESS, UM, WHICH INVOLVES, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, WHAT DIFFERENT CODE SECTIONS WOULD NEED TO CHANGE.
I THINK SOME OF THE EXAMPLES YOU SAW IN THE DOCUMENT WE PROVIDED IS WE MIGHT BE TRYING TO ADDRESS SOMETHING, BUT THAT MEANS WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THE USE AND THE DEFINITION AND KIND OF, WE LOOK AT MM-HMM.
SO YOU COULDN'T COME IN AND, YOU KNOW, AS A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC CAN SUBMIT AN APPLICATION FOR A CODE CHANGE IN THE SAME WAY YOU MIGHT SUBMIT A D APPLICATION FOR A DEVELOPMENT REVIEW.
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ARE A RESULT OF OUR MEETING WITH A, WITH OUR RESIDENTS AND KIND OF IDENTIFYING HOW THE CODE IS NOT ACCOMPLISHING ITS GOALS IN VARIOUS SITUATIONS.AND SO THEY'RE IDENTIFIED THROUGH THOSE MEETINGS WITH THE PUBLIC, EVEN THOUGH THE PUBLIC'S NOT GOING TO BE THE APPLICANT ON THESE TYPES OF PROJECTS.
UM, IF, YOU KNOW, THIS MOVES FORWARD THROUGH THE COMMISSION, IT WOULD GO, THE COMMISSION MAKES A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNSEL.
COUNSEL HAS A PUBLIC HEARING AS WELL.
AND ANY CHANGES THAT ARE ADOPTED BY THE COUNSEL GO INTO EFFECT 30 DAYS AFTER COUNSEL APPROVES THEM.
UM, I THINK A LOT OF YOU KNOW THAT THIS LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE WENT THROUGH A MAJOR REWRITE IN 2018 WHERE, UM, WAS THE FIRST MAJOR REWRITE IN 20 ISH YEARS.
AND SO, UM, IN THE YEARS FOLLOWING THAT, IN 20 19, 20 20 AND 2021, AS WE STARTED WORKING WITH THE NEW CODE, WE WERE BRINGING BACK, UM, CODE CHANGES ON A PRETTY REGULAR BASIS.
IT'S BEEN A LITTLE LONGER SINCE THEN.
WE GOT, WE WORKED A LOT OF THE KINKS OUT IN THOSE KIND OF FIRST THREE GROUNDS OF UPDATES, AND THERE HASN'T BEEN ANYTHING QUITE AS PRESSING, BUT AT THIS POINT WE HAD COMPILED A, UM, AS YOU SAW IN YOUR PACKET, A LIST OF A NUMBER OF ITEMS. WE FELT IT WAS TIME TO, TO BRING THE NEXT ROUND OF UPDATES.
UM, SO KIND OF THE ONES THAT WE DID WANNA JUST HIGHLIGHT ARE, UM, THEY'RE HIGHLIGHTED IN THE, UM, STAFF REPORT, BUT THERE'S SOME CHANGES THAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO THE WAY OHB BUSINESSES ARE REGULATED.
WE DID WANNA BE CLEAR THAT A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT THE CITY RECEIVES AROUND OHVS ARE REGARDING THEIR USE ON FOREST SERVICE LANDS AND THE ROADS AND THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CAN'T REALLY ADDRESS THOSE ITEMS. BUT AS WE WERE LOOKING AT THEIR IMPACTS AND, UM, ON THE CITY AS A WHOLE, WE DID IDENTIFY A COUPLE THINGS, PRIMARILY THE PARKING, UM, REQUIREMENTS THAT, UM, COULD BE IMPROVED IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE IMPACTS ON THE, THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES AND, UM, HOW OHV BUSINESSES WOULD BE REGULATED GOING FORWARD.
UM, THERE'S ALSO A NUMBER OF CHANGES THAT WERE, UM, A RESULT OF OUR DISCUSSIONS WITH OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT STAFF TO TRY TO CLARIFY, UM, THE CODE REQUIREMENTS ON SOME OF THEIR, YOU KNOW, MOST POPULAR COMPLAINTS THAT THEY GET.
AND BRIAN, OUR SENIOR CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER IS HERE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT KIND OF THE IMPETUS FOR ANY OF THOSE CHANGES OR, UM, HOW, YOU KNOW, THEY MAY HELP HIM, UM, DO HIS JOB BETTER.
UM, WE'RE ALSO PROPOSING A COUPLE CHANGES TO, UM, SOME KIND OF AROUND HOUSING, UM, THAT BEING, ALLOWING A FULL KITCHEN IS ESSENTIALLY ALLOWING A STOVE TO BE INSTALLED IN GUEST HOUSES, UM, AND THEN CHANGING SOME OF THE REQUIREMENTS FOR MANUFACTURED HELMS. UM, WE'VE JUST STARTED WORKING WITH SHANNON AND JEANIE, WHO'S THE NEW HOUSING COORDINATOR ABOUT SOME OF THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE MIGHT BE ABLE TO CHANGE.
AND SO WE WOULD ANTICIPATE THAT IN THE FUTURE WE WOULD BE BRINGING POTENTIALLY A PACKAGE OF HOUSING CHANGES, UM, TO THE COMMISSION.
BUT THAT WAS A LITTLE MORE INVOLVED THAN WE WANTED TO DO IN THIS KIND OF OVERALL THING.
SO THESE ARE TWO ITEMS FOR ON THE HOUSING SIDE THAT WE THOUGHT, UM, COULD BE DONE NOW.
BUT I WOULD ANTICIPATE AS WE CONTINUE TO WORK WITH SHANNON AND JEANIE, UM, AND THEY START TO UNDERSTAND MORE OF THE CODES AND HOW THE CODES IMPACT DIFFERENT HOUSING THAT WE MIGHT BE BRINGING BACK, UM, SOMETHING THAT'S JUST MORE FOCUSED ON HOUSING.
UM, SAME THING WITH SUSTAINABILITY.
THERE'S BEEN SOME CHANGES IN THE SUSTAINABILITY STAFFING OVER THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS, BUT WE HAVE STARTED WORKING WITH THEM AND WE WOULD ANTICIPATE THAT WE'D POTENTIALLY JUST BRING FORWARD A PACKAGE OF CODE CHANGES THAT SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS SUSTAINABILITY SO THEY DON'T GET MIXED UP IN KIND OF THE CLERICAL TYPOGRAPHICAL CHANGES MM-HMM.
SO THOSE ARE SOME THINGS YOU MIGHT ANTICIPATE SEEING IN THE FUTURE AND WHY YOU MIGHT NOT SEE AS MUCH AS YOU WOULD ANTICIPATED IN THOSE CATEGORIES WITH THIS UPDATE.
UM, SO WE'VE DONE ALL THE PUBLIC NOTICING THERE'S NOT, UM, IT CAN BE DIFFICULT WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT NOTICING A PROPERTY, YOU'RE NOT POSTING A SIGN.
UM, SO WE HAVE WORKED WITH THE CITY SOCIAL MEDIA COORDINATOR AND A SOCIAL MEDIA POST AND UM, I KNOW CYNTHIA, UM, WAS WORKING WITH THE O H V GROUP AND MENTIONED THAT THESE CHANGES WERE GONNA BE COMING FORWARD TO THEM.
UM, WE HAVE TECHNICALLY WE RECEIVED ONE COMMENT, BUT IT WAS JUST A QUESTION ABOUT, UM, PAINTING AND WHETHER WE CHARGE TO REVIEW COLORS AND WE DO NOT.
UM, IF YOU WANNA REPAINT YOUR HOUSE, WE WILL REVIEW YOUR COLOR FOR FREE.
UM, AND SO HE WAS HAPPY WITH THAT AND MOVED ON AND, UM, SO WE DIDN'T, HAVEN'T RECEIVED ANY OTHER COMMENTS.
UM, BUT THAT'S ABOUT ALL I HAVE TO SAY.
I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AND OTHER STAFF ARE HERE AS WELL.
[00:15:02]
THE NEXT PLAN UPDATE IS CONFIRMED? UM, OR DO YOU THINK YOU'LL WAIT UNTIL YOU HEAR FROM THE COMMUNITY PLAN? IT, IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE OF BOTH.UM, I KNOW SHANNON HAS BEEN WORKING LATELY WITH A, UM, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY HAVING A HOUSING MANAGER WHO'S FOCUSED ON HOUSING HAS BROUGHT SOME OF THE HOUSING ISSUES KINDA TO THE FOREFRONT.
THE CITY HAS RECENTLY ACQUIRED SOME PROPERTY WITH THE EX WITH SOME IDEAS OF DOING SOME HOUSING ON IT.
AND SO SHE IS GETTING MORE INTO THE, UM, CODE AND WHAT THE LIMITATIONS OF THE CODE MIGHT BE ON SOME OF THOSE DEVELOPERS.
SO SHE'S KIND OF GETTING A CRASH COURSE AND MM-HMM.
UM, THERE ARE SOME ALLOWANCES THROUGH THE DGA, THE DEVELOP IT INCENTIVES AND GUIDELINES FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING THAT CAN BE USED FOR SOME OF THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECTS.
AND SO WE, IT MIGHT BE THAT WE NEED TO WAIT OR THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DO NOW.
UM, I THINK HOUSING, UM, IS OBVIOUSLY ON THE TOP OF EVERYBODY'S MINDS.
YOU KNOW, CYNTHIA'S PLANNING A WHOLE FORUM AROUND IT.
AND SO, UM, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU GUYS UNDERSTOOD IF YOU DIDN'T SEE AS MANY HOUSING RELATED CHANGES MM-HMM.
CUZ SOMETIMES IT CAN ALSO BE EASIER TO DISCUSS, YOU KNOW, WHY CERTAIN CHANGES ARE NEEDED IF YOU'RE SEEING KIND OF THE BIGGER PICTURE AND NOT GETTING RIGHT WAY DOWN AND TALKING ABOUT OTHER THINGS AT THE SAME TIME.
WELL, IN TERMS OF, UM, APPROACHING OUR REVIEW, MAYBE FIRST IF, UH, ANY OF THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE GENERAL QUESTIONS ABOUT PROCESS OR ANYTHING ELSE, LIKE MY QUESTION, AND THEN AS A WAY TO MAKE THIS EFFICIENT, WE'LL JUST GO PAGE BY PAGE AND I'LL ASK IF ANYONE HAS A QUESTION OR COMMENT, UM, IF THAT'S ACCEPTABLE TO YOU.
SO ANY QUESTIONS OF CARRIE NOW? GENERALLY? GO AHEAD, CHARLOTTE.
I GUESS, I GUESS THESE ARE, I GUESS THESE ARE GENERAL, THEY'RE SORT SORT OF O OVERARCHING, BUT MM-HMM.
UM, SO COULD YOU REMIND ME WHAT MAJOR VERSUS MINOR IS? I, I I THINK MOST OF THESE I, YOU AND I WOULD SAY WERE MINOR, BUT, SO THERE'S NOT AN ACTUALLY A DEFINITION FOR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CHANGES.
WE DON'T CATEGORIZE THEM AS MAJOR OR MINOR COMMUNITY PLAN AMENDMENTS.
AND THEN THERE'S DIFFERENT REVIEW PROCEDURES FOR A MINOR VERSUS A MAJOR.
THERE'S DIFFERENT TIMEFRAMES AND ALL THAT, BUT WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CHANGES, THEY'RE NOT CATEGORIZED, THEY'RE JUST ALL CONSIDERED LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CHANGES.
UM, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE STATUS IS.
SO PART OF THE QUESTION IS DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE STATUS IS OF THAT O OFF HIGHWAY VEHICLE ENVIRONMENTAL STUDY? UM, AND ARE THERE ANY OTHER, ANY PARTS OF THE CODE THAT MIGHT BE IMPACTED BY WHAT COMES OUT OF THAT? I REALIZE IT'S MOSTLY OUTSIDE THE CITY LIMITS, BUT I'M JUST WONDERING IF THE SCOPE WOULD IMPACT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CHAIR, CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS.
I, I BELIEVE WE JUST FINALIZED THAT AGREEMENT AND SO IT'S GONNA BE SIGNED HERE IN THE NEXT COUPLE WEEKS AND THE STUDY SHOULD JUST BE STARTED.
THERE WAS A LONG, UM, THE DISCUSSION AND BACK AND FORTH ABOUT THE SCOPE OF AND THE SIZE OF THE STUDY, UM, WILL, AND IT MIGHT EVEN END UP GOING BACK TO COUNCIL BECAUSE IT ENDS UP BEING OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS.
UM, UH, AND YES, UH, EVENTUALLY WE HOPE THAT THAT WOULD INFORM SOME CHANGES IN THE LDC.
UH, BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THOSE WILL BE AT THIS TIME.
UM, AND ALSO THE, AT THE COUNCIL RETREAT IN JANUARY, THERE WAS DISCUSSION ABOUT WHEN TIME PERMITS ON YOUR SCHEDULE
DID YOU HEAR THAT ONE? I DIDN'T.
UM, I KNOW THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ONCE THE COMMUNITY PLAN IS UPDATED AND WE KIND OF HAVE THE GUIDANCE ON THAT, UM, WE MIGHT, WE WOULD START LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, HOW, HOW DOES THE LDC FOLLOW THE COMMUNITY PLAN UPDATE? UM, BUT I HAVEN'T GOTTEN ANYWHERE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING WITH THAT YET, BUT I WOULD ANTICIPATE WITH THE NEW COMMUNITY PLAN YOU WOULD SEE SOME LDC CHANGES AS WELL.
BECAUSE MY QUESTION WAS KIND OF, UM, DO YOU ANTICIPATE, GIVEN WHAT YOU THINK MIGHT CHANGE IN THE LDC MUST HAVE SOME IDEAS, UM, OF THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT? YOU KNOW, UM, WELL THESE, I DON'T LIKE TO LOOK AT THINGS TWICE, YOU KNOW? RIGHT.
SO WOULD, WOULD ANY OF THAT IMPACT WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT NOW? I DON'T THINK
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ANYTHING IN THE COMMUNITY PLAN, UM, WOULD REALLY, WE WOULDN'T BE COMING AND UNDOING ANY OF THE CHANGES THAT WE'RE PROPOSING TONIGHT, BUT IT, IT MIGHT LEAD TO A MORE ROBUST, UM, SET OF CHANGES IN THE FUTURE.IF THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION, GEORGE, LET ME KNOW IF I'M GOING INTO THE WEED DETAIL.
AND I HAVE SOME GENERAL THINGS RELATED TO SOME OF THE, UH, MAJOR TOPICS, BUT I WON'T GO INTO THE WEEDS.
UH, SO I GUESS THE FIRST THING THAT I HAD IS ON, UH, OFF HIGHWAY VEHICLES.
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY BUSINESSES AND HOW MANY OFF-ROAD VEHICLES EXIST IN SEDONA PLUS OR MINUS STUFF? OH, GEEZ.
I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY VEHICLES, BECAUSE WE HAVE NEVER ASKED FOR HOW MANY VEHICLES EACH, UM, BUSINESS HAS.
THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING NEW, OBVIOUSLY NEW.
AND WITH THESE UPDATES, UM, WE WENT THROUGH LAST YEAR AND IDENTIFIED I THINK SEVEN OR EIGHT BUSINESSES AND WE DID, YOU KNOW, TALK TO ALMOST ALL OF THEM AND GOT GOOD RECORDS OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY'RE DOING AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, MAKING SURE THEY WERE IN COMPLIANCE WITH WHAT WAS APPROVED AT THAT TIME.
AND THAT LED US TO SOME OF THE CHANGES, REALIZING THAT WHAT THE CODE REQUIREMENTS WEREN'T ADDRESSING SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT WERE BEING RAISED MOSTLY AROUND PARKING.
AND MAYBE THAT'S WHAT CHARLOTTE WAS REFERRING TO.
SO, UH, BESIDES THE DEFINITION OF, UH, OFF HIGHWAY VEHICLE BUSINESSES MM-HMM.
I MEAN, THE BIGGEST ONE SAYING BIGGER PICTURE MIGHT BE MORE ROBUST.
THE BIGGEST ONE WE HAVE RIGHT NOW THAT WE'VE REALLY IDENTIFIED IS CREATING SOME ISSUES IS THE PARKING.
UM, I THINK IS, IT'S EXPLAINED IN THE STAFF REPORT.
UM, THEY'VE JUST ALWAYS BEEN GROUPED TOGETHER WITH VEHICLE, LIKE ANY VEHICLE SALES OR LEASING, WHICH INCLUDES, YOU KNOW, PASSENGER VEHICLE RENTALS AND PARKING REQUIREMENTS HAVE GENERALLY BEEN PRETTY MINIMAL BECAUSE WHEN YOU GO AND RENT A VAN, YOU'RE EITHER SHOWING UP WITHOUT A CAR OR YOU CAN LEAVE YOUR CAR IN THE SPACE OF THE CAR YOU'RE RENTING.
UM, OHVS ARE JUST DIFFERENT THAN THAT.
UM, THEY'RE SMALLER, THEY CRAMMED THEM IN A LITTLE MORE.
THEY, UM, YEAH, THEY, THEY'VE JUST HAD DIFFERENT IMPACTS THAN WE'VE SEEN IN OTHER VEHICLE SALES AND SO IT DIDN'T FEEL RIGHT TO KEEP THEM IN THE SAME CATEGORY AND HAVING DIFFERENT CATEGORIES, YOU KNOW, IN THE FUTURE IF WE CONTINUE TO IDENTIFY OTHER IMPACTS, UM, WE WOULD, COULD POTENTIALLY BE BRINGING ADDITIONAL CHANGES FORWARD.
UM, ANOTHER GENERAL QUESTION, UM, WOULD THESE CHANGES BE RETROACTIVE TO EXISTING BUSINESSES? NO.
UM, SO ANYTHING EXISTING NOW WOULD BE LEGAL NONCONFORMING OR WOULD BECOME LEGAL NONCONFORMING WITH WHAT WAS APPROVED.
AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE DID LAST YEAR IS WE GOT A GOOD RECORD OF WHAT IS APPROVED AT EACH ONE.
SO IT'LL BE EASIER TO IDENTIFY WHEN THEY'VE EXPANDED BEYOND WHAT WE'VE APPROVED.
UM, AND THEN ANY, IF THEY WERE TO WANT TO EXPAND, IF THEY WANT TO DO SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THEIR APPROVALS ARE, THEN THE NEW PROCESS AND NEW STANDARDS WOULD APPLY TO THEM.
WELL, I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE WE KINDA MISSED THE BALL.
CAN I REASON, CAN I HAVE A FOLLOW UP QUESTION TO THAT? CUZ I HAVE THAT ON MY LIST TOO MM-HMM.
THEN I, I JUST HAVE, UM, ONE COMMENT ON THE, UH, HOUSING RELATED RELATED TO KITCHENS AND KITCHENETTES MM-HMM.
CAN YOU GIVE ME BIG PICTURE VIEW OF WHY THIS CHANGE HAS OCCURRED? SO, OR THE THOUGHT PROCESS? YEAH, SO THIS SINGLE FAMILY PROPERTIES HAVE BEEN PERMITTED TO BUILD ONE HOUSE AND ONE GUEST HOUSE, GUEST HOUSE.
UM, AND THE GUEST HOUSE HAS BEEN, UM, PROHIBITED FROM HAVING A RANGE, THE, AND THE WIRING AND THE GAS LINE TO, YOU KNOW, CONNECT THAT RANGE TO, UM, SINCE IN THE LAST FEW YEARS WE'VE SEEN AN INCREDIBLE NUMBER OF GUEST HOUSES BEING CONSTRUCTED AND THEY DON'T HAVE KITCHENS.
UM, AND THEN AS WE'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE, UM, AND SHANNON DID COME, AND SO SHE CAN TALK TO THIS A LITTLE BIT TOO, IS THAT THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN POTENTIALLY CONVERTING GUEST HOUSES INTO LONG-TERM RENTALS.
A LOT OF THEM ARE USING THEM AS SHORT-TERM RENTALS MM-HMM.
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TO PUT IN A STOVE LIMITS, UM, I MEAN, SOME PEOPLE MAY BE OKAY LIVING WITHOUT A STOVE, BUT THERE IS A PERCEPTION THAT IT'S NOT GOING, THAT THEY CAN'T CONVERT IT TO A LONG-TERM RENTAL WITHOUT THAT FULL KITCHEN.AND SO WHAT WE'VE KIND OF DETERMINED IS IT'S JUST PERPETUATING ALL OF THESE UNITS TO CONTINUE TO BE SHORT-TERM RENTALS INSTEAD OF ALLOWING THAT MORE EASE EAS EASE, EASE OF CONVERSION INTO A LONG-TERM RENTAL.
UM, AND SO FROM A, A MASS AND BULK AND VISUAL STANDPOINT, IT'S NOT CHANGING WHAT'S BEING BUILT ON A SITE, BUT IT'S KIND OF ENCOURAGING THE SHORT-TERM RENTALS RATHER THAN THE LONG-TERM RENTALS.
YEAH, I'LL TALK MORE LATER, BUT THAT, THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
ANYONE ELSE AT THE, GO AHEAD, LENNY.
I DON'T KNOW IF I SHOULD SAVE THE FOLLOW UP QUESTION TILL LATER ON.
OHVS OR GEORGE HAD ASKED ABOUT GRANDFATHERING MM-HMM.
AND, UM, HOW ABOUT IF THEY EXPAND THE SCOPE OF THE BUSINESS? SO FOR INSTANCE, THEY HAVE X VEHICLES NOW AND THEY MOVE TO Y SO OUR CURRENT CODE DOESN'T SPEAK TO A NUMBER OF VEHICLES, AND SO WE DON'T HAVE THOSE RECORDS.
WHAT WE DO HAVE IS AREAS THAT ARE APPROVED TO BE VEHICLE STORAGE AND, UM, THAT HAS BEEN, UM, SO WE'VE IDENTIFIED THOSE AREAS ON EACH, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THE AREAS THAT ARE FAR IN, LIKE THEY MEET THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS, THEY MEET THE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS.
UM, THERE'S, YEAH, I THINK THOSE ARE THE TWO MAIN ONES.
AND SO THEY'VE BEEN IDENTIFIED FOR EACH OF THE BUSINESSES OF WHERE THEY'RE ALLOWED TO STORE VEHICLES.
IF THEY WANTED TO EXPAND BEYOND THAT, THEN THEY WOULD THEN FALL INTO THE NEW CODE.
AND THEN I JUST HAVE A QUESTION.
IT'S MORE, UH, FORWARD THINKING TO THE NEXT ROUND, AND IT'S PROBABLY MORE OF A LEGAL QUESTION, I'M NOT SURE, BUT, UM, THAT'S WHY KURT'S HERE.
AND SO MY QUESTION IS, IS WOULD THAT SORT OF AN APPROACH, UM, ADD MORE TEETH TO THE CFAS? YOU KNOW, WE HAVE CFAS NOW AND, AND GUIDELINES ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, BUT WOULD THAT APPLY HERE AND BE A, UH, A STRATEGY? SO I'D HAVE TO LOOK INTO SOME MORE, UM, COMMISSIONER, BUT I BELIEVE THEIR CHARACTER AREAS ARE SIMILAR TO OUR FOCUS, OUR COMMUNITY FOCUS AREAS.
SO I I THINK THEY'RE KIND OF, UH, SIMILAR THERE, BUT I, I CAN LOOK INTO IT AND SEE, UM, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WOULD ALLOW US TO, IS CERTAINLY NOT RETROACTIVELY APPLY IT TO NO TO AREAS, NOT RETROACTIVELY, BUT YEAH.
IN THE FUTURE, UH, WE CAN, WE CAN DO MORE AND, AND WE CAN DO MORE EVEN IN OUR FOCUS AREAS TO, TO CONTROL THE DEVELOPMENT.
I I SUSPECTED THEY MIGHT BE VERY SIMILAR, BUT I JUST THOUGHT IT MIGHT STILL BE WORTHY TO LOOK AT.
SHOULD WE START OUR PAGE BY PAGE? JUST HAVE A QUICK QUESTION.
UM, YOU MENTIONED, UH, GROUPING CHANGES AND POTENTIALLY, SORRY, MOVE THE BITE DOWN.
YOU MENTIONED GROUPING CHANGES AND POTENTIALLY IN THE FUTURE THERE WAS GONNA BE A CLUSTER OF POTENTIALLY SUSTAINABILITY CHANGES TO THE CODE.
I'M JUST CURIOUS WHO'S IN CHARGE OF, WELL, SO RIGHT NOW THAT, UM, SO RIGHT NOW WE, THEY HAVE AN INTERIM SUSTAINABILITY MANAGERS.
WE'RE KIND OF WAITING TO SEE WHAT THEIR, WE HAD STARTED TO WORK WITH THE PREVIOUS SUSTAINABILITY MANAGER, UM, AND SOME OF THE SUSTAINABILITY STAFF AND KIND OF, IT WAS STARTING WITH KIND OF AN EDUCATION OF WHAT THE CODE CAN AND CAN'T DO.
AND SO AS THEY KIND OF WORK THROUGH THEIR WORK PROGRAM, THEY CAN START IDENTIFYING THINGS.
UM, BUT KIND OF ONCE, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THAT GOT PUT ON HOLD WITH THE CHANGES IN THEIR STAFFING.
AND SO ONCE THAT IS DETERMINED, THEN WE WILL KIND OF RESTART THAT PROCESS.
IS THAT SOMETHING I CAN BE INVOLVED IN? UM, PROBABLY.
I'LL WRITE DOWN THAT, THAT YOU'RE INTERESTED.
SO, UM, STARTING WITH PAGE SIX, WHICH INCLUDES, UM, ARTICLE ONE, TWO, AND A PORTION OF THREE, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR RECOMMENDATIONS,
[00:30:01]
UH, ON THAT PAGE YOU WANNA DISCUSS? I CAN GO.HE'S ASLEEP, SO LET'S DO IT WHILE HE IS ASLEEP.
SO YOU'RE ASKING IF YOU NEED A PERMIT TO PAINT? YES.
DO YOU NEED A PERMIT TO PAINT? NO.
UM, WE, LIKE I SAID, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT CAME UP FROM THE ONE.
UM, WE, YOU CAN STOP BY OUR FRONT COUNTER AND PROVIDE A PAINT SAMPLE AND WE'LL LOOK AT IT THERE.
OR YOU CAN EMAIL US IF YOU HAVE A PAINT BRAND.
WE HAVE REFERENCE SAMPLES AND PAINT THE BOOKS.
UM, THE PARKING CHANGES FOR VOCATIONAL VERSUS SCHOOL VERSUS TRADE VERSUS STUFF.
UM, MOSTLY, I MEAN, IT'S FOR TABLE OF ALLOWED USES, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ZONING HERE.
SO IT'S JUST SAYING THAT ALL OF THOSE TYPES OF, YOU'RE CONSOLIDATING SCHOOL TYPES.
WELL, SO THE ISSUE THAT WE RAN INTO IS THAT WE HAVE FOR, WE HAVE A DEFINITION FOR PUBLIC AND PRIVATE SCHOOL, WHICH IS LIKE THE K THROUGH 12, AND THEN WE HAVE PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR A VOCATIONAL SCHOOL, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THOSE AS A PERMITTED USE ANYWHERE.
UM, SO ARE WE ARE, DOES THAT MEAN, SO WE'RE SAYING THAT YES, IT IS A PERMITTED USE AND ADDING IT TO A COUPLE ZONES BECAUSE WE HAVE A DEFINITION IN PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR A USE THAT WE CURRENTLY DON'T ALLOW.
THAT MAKES SENSE WITH WHY I COULDN'T FIGURE IT OUT.
UM, AND THEN THE LAST ONE, WHICH I'M SURE MANY OF US WILL TALK ABOUT IS THE LODGING FEWER THAN SEVEN UNITS.
UM, I TOTALLY GET THE INTENTION OF THIS, THE, THE REMOVAL OF IT MM-HMM.
UM, MY CONCERN IS ABOUT THE POTENTIAL FOR DENSIFICATION FOR HOUSING IN GETTING RID OF THIS PROVISION.
DOES THAT MEAN THAT THERE ARE LOTS THAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE COMMERCIAL TURNED INTO COMMERCIAL M ONE? SO MIXED USE COMMERCIAL LODGING AND OC IS OAK CREEK.
RIGHT? THE ONE ON THE THANK YOU.
UM, THAT IT COULD POTENTIALLY BE TURNED INTO MORE DENSE HOUSING UNITS, SO HOUSING IS STILL A PERMITTED USE.
SO LODGING BEING SPECIFICALLY A TOR A SHORT TERM RIGHT.
MULTI-FAMILY HOUSING WOULD STILL REMAIN AS A PERMITTED USE.
CHARLOTTE, CAN I JUST ASK, ARE WE GOING THROUGH THE SORT OF HIGH LEVEL ONES STARTING ON PAGE FIVE OR ARE WE GOING STARTING ON PAGE SEVEN WITH IT? WAS I ON THE CORRECT PAGE? UM, I THINK WE'RE GOING THROUGH THESE, WE'RE GOING THROUGH PAGE BY, WELL, YOUR PAGES MIGHT BE DIFFERENT.
UM, PAGE SIX ONLINE GOES TO, UM, TABLE OF ALLOWED USES UNDER ARTICLE THREE.
DOES YOURS I PRINTED IT GOES THROUGH PART, YES.
YEAH, WELL LET, SO I JUST WANTED TO TAKE IT PAGE BY PAGE.
SO MY FIRST QUESTION WAS ABOUT, UH, 1.6
OH, SO SHOULDN'T ONE OF THOSE BE 50% OR MORE, OR 50% OR LESS? JUST SO FIFTY'S CAPTURED SOMEWHERE? YES.
WHICH ONE WOULD YOU PREFER? I REALLY DON'T HAVE A PREFERENCE.
AND I HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S SORT OF MAYBE SIMILAR TO WHAT COLLIE WAS ASKING ABOUT THE LODGING THREE 20 E.
UH, SO HOW WOULD LODGING UNDER SEVEN UNITS BE TREATED IF WE TAKE, IF WE MAKE THESE CHANGES? I, I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND WHERE IT LEAVES THAT.
SO RIGHT NOW THE LODGING UNDER SEVEN, UP TO SIX, UM, IS A PERMITTED USE.
AND SO IT WOULD BE REMOVED FROM THE COMMERCIAL ZONE.
AND SO IF SOMEONE WANTED TO DO ANY TYPE OF LODGING, THEY'D HAVE TO COME THROUGH THE ZONE CHANGE PROCESS.
WHEREAS RIGHT NOW WE'RE SEEING PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, CONVERT OFFICE BUILDINGS INTO LODGING WITHOUT ANY OF THE SAME REVIEW THAT A LARGER HOTEL PROJECT GOES THROUGH.
SO IT'S REALLY GONNA DISALLOW THOSE CONVERSIONS RIGHT.
UM, AND WE'RE JUST GOING PAGE BY PAGE, SO WAIT TILL
[00:35:01]
THE NEXT PAGE.ANYONE ELSE HAVE COMMENTS ON THAT FIRST PAGE? YEAH, I JUST, I HAVE A QUESTION ON THE FIRST PAGE, UH, UNDER SECTION 2.24 EXCEPTIONS TO SETBACK REQUIREMENTS.
SO IF IT'S, IF THEY DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER SHEDS IN THE BACKYARD, THEY COULD BUILD A GREENHOUSE NO MORE THAN 15 FEET TALL WITH A FIVE FOOT REAR SETBACK.
UM, I'M GOOD WITH THE FIRST TWO, UH, THE THIRD ITEM, 3.4
UM, FIRST, UH, AND I'M KINDA SPEAKING FROM SOME PERSONAL THINGS THAT I HAVE NEAR MY HOUSE, UM, IS CAN YOU HAVE MORE THAN ONE HABITABLE UNIT PER ACCESSORY BUILDING? UM, SO YOU ARE PERMITTED BASICALLY TWO HABITABLE STRUCTURES, THE HOUSE AND THE GUEST HOUSE AND ANYTHING WITHOUT INTERNAL CONNECTIONS TO EACH OTHER.
UM, SO IF YOU HAVE TO, TO GET TO THE OTHER AREA OF THE HOUSE, YOU HAVE TO WALK OUT AND THEN GO OUTSIDE AND WALK BACK IN.
THOSE ARE CONSIDERED SEPARATE STRUCTURES.
AND MAYBE IT'S NOT RELEVANT HERE, BUT JUST FOR MY OWN MIND MM-HMM.
CAN YOU HAVE TWO SEPARATE HABITABLE SPACES AND THAT ACCESSORY BUILDING? NO.
UM, AND I GUESS YOU MEAN MORE THAN TWO BEDROOMS OR YOU MEAN I I SOMETHING LIKE TWO SEPARATE UNITS OR SOMETHING THAT HAS ONE BUILDING AND THEY HAVE TWO SEPARAT RENTABLE UNITS IN THE ONE BUILDING, UH, CHANGED, I BELIEVE IN THE LAST CODE UPDATE, THIS WAS CHANGED BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE DIVIDING THEIR GUEST HOUSES, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
AND, AND SO IF IF IT WAS BUILT MORE THAN A FEW YEARS AGO, IT MAY HAVE BEEN PERMITTED AT THE TIME.
PROBABLY NOT, BUT, UM, AND IT'S KIND OF RELATED TO THAT WHY I'M, I'M ALONG THIS LINE OF THINKING, SO, UH HUH UH, ALLOWING FULL KITCHENS AND GUEST HOUSES MM-HMM.
SO WHAT I WANTED TO, UH, DISCUSS IS IF THERE COULD BE A, UH, UH, MINIMUM SPACE REQUIREMENT THAT ALLOWS MM-HMM.
WELL, THAT'D BE VERY DANGEROUS.
I KNOW IT WOULD BE
SO YEAH, I SHARE THE SAME CONCERN, ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU SAID THERE'S BEEN SUCH A HIGH DEMAND FOR GUEST HOUSES, IT STRIKES ME THAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR RENTAL INCOME AND I'M NOT, I, I'M NOT SURE I FOLLOW THE LOGIC THAT IF YOU PUT IN A FULL KITCHEN, IT WILL BE MORE LIKELY TO BE RENTED AS LONG TERM.
I DON'T KNOW IF I'D SAY MORE LIKELY.
WE'VE HEARD FROM A NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT THERE'S A MENTAL BLOCK FOR THEM AS THEY, THEY SAID, YOU AS LONG AS I, I CAN'T RENT IT OUT LONG TERM UNLESS I HAVE, YOU KNOW, I CAN PROVIDE COOKING FACILITIES.
AND, BUT WHAT DRIVES THAT? WHAT HAS DRIVEN THE PROLIFERATION OF GUEST HOUSES? HAS IT BEEN I WANT LONG-TERM RENTAL CAPABILITY, OR I WANT SHORT-TERM
[00:40:01]
RENTAL INCOME? WE'VE SEEN A PRETTY HIGH INCREASE.I MEAN, I DON'T HAVE THE NUMBERS IN FRONT OF ME, BUT WE'VE TRACKED THINGS AND WE'VE SEEN, YOU KNOW, SINCE SHORT-TERM RENTALS HAVE BECOME MORE POPULAR, PRETTY MUCH EVERY HOUSE GETS BUILT WITH SOME KIND OF GUEST SUITE, GUEST HOUSE.
UM, AND, YOU KNOW, ASSUMING THAT EVERYONE WHO'S GOING THROUGH THIS IS GETTING A BUILDING PERMIT, UM, THERE ARE BUILDING CODE REQUIREMENTS THAT STEVE CAN MAYBE ADDRESS ABOUT HOW LARGE DIFFERENT HABITABLE SPACES WOULD NEED TO BE BY BUILDING CODE.
I GUESS THAT WOULD BE ME THEN
UM, SO THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS FOR WHAT YOU NEED TO HAVE WITHIN A STRUCTURE.
UM, THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE SIZE OF A BEDROOM, UM, BUT THERE IS ALSO REQUIREMENTS FOR STUDIO SPACE.
SO, UM, I PERSONALLY, EVEN A 200 SQUARE FOOT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE VERY TINY HOMES, UM, IN, IN, UH, AND I THINK THAT YES, YOU COULD BUILD A BIG KITCHEN AND I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN.
I ALSO THINK THERE'S EVEN MORE OF A CONCERN FOR LIVING SPACE.
UM, AND THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH, I THINK TO ADDRESS
THERE ARE WITHIN THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE, WHICH WAS NOT ADOPTED AT THE LAST CODE CYCLE.
SO THE, THE STANDARD BUILDING CODE HAS VERY FEW AREA REQUIREMENTS THAT MIGHT HELP IN THIS REGARD.
UM, BUT, UM, IT, YES, UH, WHAT AM I TRYING TO SAY? UM, I, I THINK THAT, UH, THERE MAY BE A, I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN IN ALL PRACTICALITY.
UM, THERE IS ALSO AS MUCH OR MORE OF A NEED FOR LIVING SPACE IN A HOUSE AND SLEEPING SPACE.
IT'S JUST WHETHER, WHAT IS THE OWNER'S DRIVING CORRECT.
AND WE HAVE HEARD FROM PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, UM, I'M NO LONGER INTERESTED IN SHORT-TERM RENTAL.
I DON'T LIKE HAVING TO CONSTANTLY CLEAN AND TURN PLACE AROUND AND, YOU KNOW, I WOULDN'T MIND LOOKING AT LONG-TERM RENTAL, BUT IT'S NOT GONNA BE AS, UH, BIG OF A, A PROSPECT IF I CAN'T SAY TO A COUPLE THAT I HAVE A FULL KITCHEN.
YOU CAN COOK WHAT YOU WANT WHEN YOU WANT.
UH, IS, IS THERE A REQUIREMENT FOR OFF STREETE PARKING WHEN YOU HAVE A UNIT LIKE THAT? YEAH, SO OFF STREETE PARKING IS BASED ON THE NUMBER OF BEDROOMS ON A PROPERTY AND IT'S, UM, UM, IT'S REQUIRES FOUR OR TWO SPACES FOR THE FIRST FOUR BEDROOMS AND THEN ONE ADDITIONAL SPACE FOR EACH ADDITIONAL BEDROOM.
AND THEN, UM, AND SO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE A TWO CAR GARAGE AND TWO CARS IN THE DRIVEWAY, THAT'S FOUR CARS.
YOU CAN GO UP TO SIX BEDROOMS WITH THAT.
SO IT'S REALLY IN THE HOUSES THAT ARE GETTING INTO LIKE THE EIGHT OR NINE BEDROOMS THAT, UM, THEY REALLY NEED TO START LOOKING AT PROVIDING ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACE OFF, OFF THE SITE OR OFF IT.
I JUST HAVE TO BE HONEST, IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME THAT YOU CAN HAVE A, A RENTAL PROPERTY AND NOT HAVE ANY ON PROPERTY PARKING.
I DON'T CARE HOW MANY BEDROOMS IT IS JUST MM-HMM.
UM, SO I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT BECAUSE I THINK WE'RE GONNA ENCOURAGE, WE'RE GONNA ENCOURAGE, UM, EVEN A LONG TERM RENTAL, WHICH I THINK WE REALLY NEED.
AND IT WOULD BE GREAT IF THEY WERE DOING THAT.
IT'S PARDON? UM, WE NEED TO FOCUS ON THE REVISIONS WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US, BUT MAYBE WHAT YOU'D LIKE TO SUGGEST IS THAT STAFF LOOK AT PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT.
I WOULD LIKE TO, BECAUSE, UH, I HAVE TROUBLE MM-HMM.
SO IF SOMEONE CAME IN AND THEY WERE, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD A FOUR BEDROOM HOUSE AND THEY WERE ADDING A ONE BEDROOM GUEST HOUSE, WE, THEY WOULD NOW WOULD HAVE FIVE BEDROOMS ON THE PROPERTY AND WE'D BE LOOKING FOR THAT THIRD OFF STREETE PARKING SPACE.
UM, IF THEY HAD A SIX BEDROOM HOUSE AND WERE ADDING A TWO BEDROOM GUEST HOUSE, THEY WOULD HAVE EIGHT BEDROOMS ON THE PROPERTY AND UH, THEY'D HAVE TO SHOW SIX OFF STREETE PARKING SPACES.
SO THAT'D BE SOMETHING WE WOULD, PARKING WOULD BE SOMETHING WE WOULD LOOK AT AS THE BUILDING PERMITS FOR, UM, GUEST HOUSES COME, COME IN.
[00:45:01]
WILL I SEE YOUR POINT? I RETRACT WHAT I SAID,UM, THIS IS PROBABLY THE CODE UPDATE THAT I'M MOST EXCITED ABOUT.
SO I, I'M REALLY SURPRISED TO HEAR SO MUCH HESITATION, UM, BECAUSE WE NEED AN ABUNDANCE OF HOUSING.
I KNOW MANY PEOPLE, WELL, I PERSONALLY HAVE TWO FRIENDS WITH AIRBNBS WHO SPECIFICALLY HAVE AIRBNBS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T PUT OVENS IN THEIR AIRBNB, OTHERWISE IT WOULD BE LONG TERM.
BUT WHEN THEY WANTED, THEY WERE BUILDING THEIR HOME, THEY WERE ENTITLED TO PUT A, A GUEST HOUSE ON THEIR PROPERTY.
AND THIS CODE CHANGE WON'T CHANGE, THAT WON'T CHANGE WHETHER PEOPLE BUILD THEM OR NOT BECAUSE THEY CAN, RIGHT NOW, UNLESS WE REMOVE THE ABILITY TO PUT A GUEST HOUSE ON THE PROPERTY, THEY WILL GET BUILT.
BUT RIGHT NOW THERE ARE LIMITS ON, I WOULD NOT LIVE IN A HOUSE WITHOUT A STOVE AND A OVEN.
I WOULD LIVE IN A 200 SQUARE FOOT STUDIO THOUGH.
AND I THINK THE ABUNDANCE OF AVAILABILITY IS WHAT MATTERS.
AND WHAT THIS CODE DOES IS LIMITS AVAILABILITY.
IT DOESN'T STOP THEM BEING BUILT.
IT DOESN'T STOP PEOPLE FROM BEING THEM.
ALL IT STOPS IS PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO LIVE LONG TERM IN THEM IF IT'S AVAILABLE OR IF IT'S PRACTICAL.
AND I KNOW NOT EVERYONE CARES ABOUT AN OVEN.
I PERSONALLY CARE VERY MUCH ABOUT AN OVEN
SO I THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE THE OPTION TO HAVE AN OVEN IF THE BUILDER DOESN'T WANNA PUT ONE IN COOL.
THEY WANT TO PUT A KITCHENETTE IN, AWESOME.
MORE POWER TO 'EM, THEY CAN DO THAT.
BUT NOW WE GET ALL OF THESE OPTIONS FOR MAYBE THE OLD UNITS THAT NEED TO BE BROUGHT UP AT TO CODE THE GUEST HOUSES THAT WERE BUILT IN THE NINETIES.
MAYBE THEY DO HAVE A FULL KITCHEN.
WELL NOW THEY CAN KEEP THEIR LONG-TERM RENTALS BECAUSE THE KITCHENETTE THING WAS A REACTION TO AIRBNB, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, ISH.
LIKE NO, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN, UM, THERE IT IS JUST ALWAYS BEEN THAT PROHIBITION FOR GUEST HOUSES.
UM, THAT A REMOVAL OF THAT WAS A REACTION TO THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL.
CAUSE ONE OF THE PROVISIONS OF THE ADU ORDINANCE WAS THAT WE WERE REQUIRING A MINIMUM RENTAL PERIOD, RIGHT.
THAT WE COULD NO LONGER ENFORCE.
I KNEW IT WAS SOMETHING IN MY BRAIN THAT WAS SO, I'M SO EXCITED ABOUT THIS.
UM, SO I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT AS A COUNTERPOINT OF LIKE, THIS CODE WON'T CHANGE BUILDING WHAT'S BEING BUILT, PROPERTY OWNERS WILL STILL BUILD THEM.
IT WON'T CHANGE, YOU KNOW, THE SIZE OF THEM OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT, WELL, POTENTIALLY IT'LL CHANGE THE SIZE OF THEM TO ADD AN OVEN.
BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT A KITCHEN LOOKS LIKE, I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT ONE PIECE OF EQUIPMENT REALLY CHANGING THE WHOLE KITCHEN, UM, BY EXTREME MEASURES.
SO I'M, I'M PERSONALLY VERY EXCITED ABOUT THIS CODE CHANGE.
I THINK IT'S A VERY EASY WAY TO, IN, TO ALLOW FOR THE POTENTIAL OF MORE LONG-TERM RENTALS.
WILL IT INSTANTLY FIX THE THING WE HAVE? NO, NO.
BUT IT WILL GIVE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR SOMEONE TO SAY, WHEN I BUILD THIS, I'M GONNA GIVE MYSELF THE OPTION TO LONG-TERM RENT IT.
AND POTENTIALLY THE TWO PEOPLE I KNOW COULD PUT IN OVENS TOMORROW.
NOT REALLY, CUZ THE WIRING WOULD, THERE'S LOTS OF THINGS TO DO, BUT COULD POTENTIALLY MEAN THAT THOSE ARE TWO JUST FROM THIS CONVERTED THAT I KNOW.
SORRY THAT I'M STANDING ON THE SAME SUBJECT.
UM, SO THIS IS A QUESTION TO STEVE.
DID I UNDERSTAND YOU TO SAY THAT THERE ARE MINIMUM SIZES TO BEDROOMS AND OTHER THINGS ELSEWHERE IN THE CODE, BUT WE COULDN'T SORT OF ADD A SQUARE FOOTAGE REQUIREMENT OR THRESHOLD IN THIS AREA? IT WOULD HAVE TO BE THIS PLUS SOMEWHERE ELSE? IS THAT WHAT I UNDERSTOOD AND CORRECTLY? SO AS FAR AS THE BUILDING CODE GOES, UM, THE HEAVY REQUIREMENTS FOR THE SIZING OF CERTAIN ROOMS, WHETHER IT BE BEDROOMS, LIVING ROOMS, KITCHENS, THOSE ARE BASED, UH, IN THE, UH, THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE, UH, WHICH WE DID NOT ADOPT BACK IN 2018.
UM, SO THAT MEANS WE DON'T HAVE ANY MINIMUMS. WE HAVE SOME MINIMUMS. THEY'RE VERY MINIMUM MINIMUMS
SO WE COULD, OR WE COULDN'T PUT A THRESHOLD IN HERE OF SQUARE FOOTAGE.
I THINK THERE'S NOTH I, I MEAN WE HAVE LIMITS ON, YOU KNOW, MAXIMUM SIZES.
UM, AS WE LOOK AT HOUSING SOLUTIONS, I THINK I, YOU KNOW, THIS, THE, THIS WAS BROUGHT
[00:50:01]
FORWARD AS, UH, ONE, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOT GONNA SOLVE A HOUSING ISSUE AS CITYWIDE, BUT I THINK THE CONCERN WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, AS PEOPLE LOOK AT EFFICIENCY UNITS, LIKE I, I WOULD BE HESITANT TO PUT A MINIMUM SIZE ON IT BECAUSE YOU MIGHT GET SOMETHING, SOME INTERESTING DESIGN CONCEPT THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, SMALLER UNITS MIGHT BE CHEAPER TO BUILD.THEY MIGHT BE MORE EASILY FIT ON PROPERTIES THAT, YOU KNOW, ON SOME OF THE SMALLER ZONED PROPERTIES WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE A LOT OF ROOM IN THE BACKYARD, BUT THEY CAN PUT, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE HUNDRED SQUARE FOOT, YOU KNOW, UNIT BACK THERE.
AND SO I, IN MY EXPERIENCE, WE DON'T HAVE REAL, I MEAN OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GETTING PERMITS TO DO THINGS, THEY'RE NOT TYPICALLY GETTING PERMITS FOR VERY SMALL STRUCTURES.
UM, AND THERE ARE BUILDING CODE REQUIREMENTS TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING IS SAFE.
AND, AND, UM, I WOULD JUST, YOU KNOW, AS, UM, WHAT WE ARE HOPING IS A, YOU KNOW, GOING TOWARDS HOUSING AND I DON'T KNOW, SHANNON'S HERE SHE CAN SPEAK TO IT A LITTLE MORE AT PUTTING A MINIMUM SIZE ON SOMETHING MIGHT RESTRICT SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO, UM, SMALLER UNITS CAN POTENTIALLY BE JUST CHEAPER TO BUILD MORE AFFORDABLE.
AND SHANNON BOONE IS OUR HOUSING MANAGER AND SHE I THINK MAY HAVE SOME COMMENTS TO THAT AS WELL.
UM, I WOULD JUST KIND OF CHIME IN AND SAY THAT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MINIMUMS AND HOW SMALL OF A SPACE PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO LIVE IN, UH, LIVING IN A PERMITTED ACCESSORY UNIT OR GUEST HOUSE, UM, IS PROBABLY A LOT SAFER THAN LIVING IN COOKING IN YOUR CAR
SO THAT'S KIND OF, YOU KNOW, WELL THAT'S OKAY.
THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING FROM THIS POINT IS CAN WE PROVIDE SOME OF THAT? YES, THEY ARE MAYBE VERY SMALL UNITS, BUT THEY ARE SAFE PLACES TO LIVE AND ROOFS OVER PEOPLE'S HEADS.
AND RIGHT NOW, THE WAY THE CODE IS WRITTEN, IT JUST REALLY PREVENTS SOME OF THOSE FROM BEING A LONG-TERM RENTAL.
IT'S, IT'S ALMOST LIKE WE'RE ENTICING PEOPLE TO USE THEM ONLY FOR SHORT-TERM RENTAL.
I, I DON'T WANNA GET INTO A DEBATE ABOUT IT.
UM, AND SO MAYBE BACK TO EITHER STEVE OR KERRY MM-HMM.
IF THEY'RE PUTTING IN THE STOVE, WE'D LOOK AT THE WIRING AS PART OF THE PERMIT.
IF THEY'RE CONVERTING AN EXISTING STRUCTURE INTO A HABITABLE STRUCTURE THAT REQUIRES A PERMIT THAT GOES THROUGH AND MAKE SURE EVERYTHING MEETS BUILDING CODE REQUIREMENTS.
SO IF I COULD ADD ON TO, OH, I'M SORRY.
SO AN EXISTING STRUCTURE THAT HAS A KITCHENETTE RIGHT NOW, IF THE OWNER WANTS TO PUT IN A, UM, A STOVE MM-HMM.
IT WOULD REQUIRE ANYTIME YOU EXTEND, UH, THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM OR INSTALL GAS IN A PLACE WHERE THERE WASN'T GAS BEFORE THAT WOULD REQUIRE A PERMIT.
SO WE'RE GOING FROM OUR CURRENT SITUATION WHERE TWO 20 VOLTS IS NOT PERMITTED IN THE KITCHEN AREA AND GAS IS NOT PERMITTED IN THE KITCHEN AREA.
TO NOW IF THEY WANT TO CONVERT THAT, IF THIS GETS PASSED, UM, A PERMIT WOULD BE REQUIRED IN ORDER TO EITHER INSTALL GAS OR EXTEND THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM SO THAT THERE'S TWO 20 IN THAT AREA.
SO YES, A PERMIT WOULD BE REQUIRED.
I'M NOT SO MUCH CONCERNED ABOUT NEW ONES BEING BUILT APPROPRIATELY AS I AM JERRY RIGGING SOMETHING THAT ALREADY EXISTS.
THAT'S MY ONLY QUESTION FOR THAT PAGE.
SILLY ME, I THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE A CAKE WALK.
I, I HAD ONE MORE ON THAT PAGE, BUT I JUST STUCK WITH THE ONE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.
CAN YOU PULL YOUR ON PAGE SIX? UH, YEAH, MY PAGES AREN'T NUMBERS, SO I'M GONNA SAY YES.
UM, THIS IS GOING TO COME UP ON MULTIPLE PAGES BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT, OH, FEES AND PARKING AND ALL THOSE THINGS.
BUT THIS IS THE FIRST, UH, ADDRESSING OF THE NEW SUB SECTION.
SO THIS WOULD BE THE NEW CATEGORY SEPARATING OHVS FROM VEHICLE SALES AND LEASING.
CORRECT? THAT'S WHAT WE'RE YEAH, THAT'S THE SPECIFIC ONE.
UM, FROM, YOU KNOW, I, I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR RIGHT THIS SECOND MM-HMM.
[00:55:01]
ARE CURRENTLY THE PARKING LOAD IS GOING TO BE VERY HIGH IF WHAT WE, WHAT IS PROPOSED GOES FORWARD POTENTIALLY, BECAUSE I DON'T, I WISH WE KNEW WHAT FLEET SIZES ARE, BUT I KNOW WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE WHEN I DRIVE BY.PROBABLY PLUS OR MINUS MY ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT KIND OF CONCERN IS THE POWER TO THESE LANDLORDS THAT ARE GOING TO BE RENTING BUILDINGS THAT ARE NOW GRANDFATHERED NONCONFORMING, BECAUSE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG MM-HMM.
AND UNLESS THEY CHANGE THE USE, THEY CAN CONTINUE TO USE IT AS THE PREVIOUS BUSINESS DID, AS LONG AS IT'S, THEY DON'T GO MORE THAN SIX MONTHS WITHOUT A BUSINESS THERE.
SO I GUESS MY CONCERN IS THE AMOUNT OF PROPERTIES THAT COULD ACCOMMODATE THE PARKING LOAD THAT IS PROPOSED IS BASICALLY NONE POTENTIALLY.
AND THE POWER THAT THAT GIVES TO LANDLORDS OVER CURRENT BUSINESSES MAKE ME REALLY, REALLY NERVOUS.
AND IT'S, IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT PARKING ISN'T IMPORTANT AND THAT THESE RA AND THAT OH, FEES AREN'T OUT OF CONTROL AND ALL OF THE I MM-HMM.
AND BASICALLY THAT MEANS LANDLORDS SAY, OH, YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR BUSINESS, YOUR RENT IS TRIPLED.
UM, AND IT'S ALREADY EXPENSIVE TO RUN A BUSINESS HERE IN SEDONA, AND I'M NOT HERE TO CREATE EMPATHY FOR THE OHV PROBLEM THAT EXISTS IN TOWN, BUT I AM HERE TO CREATE EMPATHY ABOUT SOMEONE'S BUILT BUSINESS THAT COULD BE VERY MUCH PUT IN JEOPARDY BY US ON ACCIDENT.
SO THAT IS MY CONCERN ON SOME OF THESE RESTRICTIONS.
KELLY, CAN I ASK
IS THAT A CONCERN WITH A POTENTIAL SOLUTION THAT YOU'D HAVE IN MIND? IT'S, IT'S A, UH, THE, SO I DON'T SEE FIXING OHVS BEING A FIXING CODE.
UM, I DON'T LIKE, KIND OF CARRIE SAID AT THE BEGINNING IS THERE'S NOT A HUGE AMOUNT THAT THE LDC CAN DO FOR THIS PROBLEM BECAUSE A LOT OF THE PROBLEM IS OUTSIDE OF THE CITY AND A LOT OF THE PROBLEM ISN'T NECESSARILY ABOUT CODE.
I FEEL LIKE THIS IS A REACTIONARY DECISION, WHICH IS REASONABLE.
I, YOU KIND OF WANNA THROW ALL OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE AT THE PROBLEM, BUT I, I FEEL LIKE THAT IT POTENTIALLY, IT'S, IT COULD BE MISGUIDED AND SHOULD BE TREATED VERY DELICATELY AS WE MAKE THE DECISION ON WHETHER CODE IS THE RIGHT HAMMER FOR THIS NAIL.
AND DON'T GET ME WRONG, I, I, THERE ARE A LOT OF BALLS IN THE AIR.
I'M, YOU KNOW, I SEE CRAIG AND THE AUDIENCE FROM KSB.
I, I'M AWARE OF SOME OF THE THINGS GOING ON TO TRY TO MITIGATE THIS AND IT'S AN UPHILL BATTLE.
I JUST DON'T WANT CODE TO NECESSARILY BE JUST A RANDOM THROW AT A PROBLEM THAT MAYBE DOESN'T MAKE ANY, IT, IT MAKE IT ANY BETTER, BUT DOES MAKE THINGS REALLY WORSE ON ACCIDENT.
SO MY SOLUTION IS POTENTIALLY NOT USING CODE AS THE HAMMER.
ANYONE ELSE ON PAGE SEVEN OR THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE? WELL, THANK YOU.
THAT'S VERY THOUGHT PROVOKING.
I HADN'T THOUGHT OF IT FROM THAT ANGLE.
PAGE EIGHT STARTS WITH ARTICLE FIVE QUESTION, I'M JUST TRYING TO CATCH UP ON MY OWN NOTES HERE.
UM, MY QUESTION IS ABOUT FIVE 50 D THE REQUIRED OFF-STREET PARKING.
UM, WE'RE PROPOSING ONE SPACE FOR EACH OHV AND ONE SPACE PER 500 SQUARE FEET OF SALES AREA.
SO I'M NOT SURE THAT A ONE-TO-ONE REQUIREMENT SEEMS MAYBE A LITTLE ONEROUS, ALTHOUGH I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE INDUSTRY.
[01:00:01]
SO I'M JUST KIND OF ASKING IS THERE SOME BASIS FOR THIS? UM, I THINK WE BASED IT ON THE IDEA THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE PASSENGER VEHICLE RENTALS HAVE VERY LITTLE PARKING WITH THE IDEA THAT YOU COULD PARK IN THE PLACE OF THE VEHICLE YOU WERE RENTING.AND SO WE WERE KIND OF THINKING IN THE SAME WAY PEOPLE COME IN ONE CAR AND GET IN AN O HB AND TAKE OFF FROM THERE.
UM, I, IF YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT PROPOSAL, UM, IT WAS, YOU KNOW, WE CAN DISCUSS THAT.
UM, I MEAN, I I'M JUST WONDERING IF ONE, 1.5 SPACES ARE NEEDED FOR EVERY, UH, ONE SPACE OF, UH, OF, YOU KNOW, PARKING.
SO ARE YOU SAYING LIKE, AND HALF OHVS, IN OTHER WORDS, SO FOR EVERY THREE OHVS YOU'D HAVE TWO PARKING SPACES? YEAH.
SOME, SOMETHING THAT'S NOT QUITE AS ONEROUS, BUT IT'S JUST A THOUGHT.
UM, SO, SO KIND OF ADDING TO THAT, NOT TO TAKE AWAY FROM YOUR TIME.
THEY'RE NOT PARKED IN PARKING SPACES.
AND THEN ALSO AS PEOPLE PULL UP THEIR, YOU KNOW, NEEDING TO PARK SOMEWHERE, UNLOAD THEIR CAR, LOAD UP THE OHB INTAKE AND WE'RE NOT SEEING CARS USE THE OHV PARKING AREAS.
THE WAY THAT IT'S CURRENTLY WRITTEN, THEY WOULD, IF THEY HAD, I DON'T KNOW, I HAVEN'T COUNTED, BUT I DON'T THINK ANYONE HAS 60, MAYBE THEY DO, BUT YOU, IF YOU HAD 60 IN YOUR OHV AREA, WE'D BE LOOKING FOR 60 PARKING SPACES ON THE PROPERTY.
I THINK THERE ARE MANY WITH OVER 60.
AND, AND I WAS THINKING THAT THAT'S WHAT THIS MEANT ALSO WHAT THE WAY YOU DESCRIBED IT.
AND MAYBE MORE APPROPRIATE MIGHT BE THREE QUARTERS OF A SPOT PER O H V OR I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBER IS, BUT I DON'T EITHER.
BUT IT JUST SEEMS ONE TO ONE SEEMS A LITTLE EXCESSIVE PERHAPS.
UM, AND, AND THEN ANOTHER QUESTION WAS, AND THIS SOMEWHAT GOES TO WHAT, UM, COLLIE WAS TALKING ABOUT ALSO, WHAT WOULD TRIGGER MM-HMM.
SO WE HAVE, AS PART OF THEIR APPLICATION RIGHT NOW, THEY GIVE US A SITE PLAN OF THEIR PROPERTY AND THEY SAY, HERE'S WHERE WE'RE PUTTING OUR HBS, HERE'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SETBACK REQUIREMENTS FROM PROPERTY LINES AND FROM STREETS.
THERE'S SCREENING REQUIREMENTS.
AND SO WE REVIEW THOSE PLANS, SAY BASED ON THIS AREA, THAT AREA MEETS ALL OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS.
IF THEY NO LONGER CAN FIT ALL OF THE OHVS, THEY WANT TO RENT IN THAT AREA AND THEY NEED TO CHANGE THAT SITE PLAN THAT'S APPROVED, THAT WOULD THEN TRIGGER A NEW REVIEW.
THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT YOU WERE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH.
AND SO, UM, BASICALLY IT WOULD DISALLOW GROWTH FOR ANY OF THESE BUSINESSES WITHOUT COMPLIANCE WITH THE, ANY CHANGES TO THE CODE.
UM, WHEREAS, UM, WE CAN GO OUT AND CHECK IF, YOU KNOW, WE DO, IF WE GET A COMPLAINT FROM SOMEBODY, WE CAN GO OUT, WE'LL GET THE REFERENCE SITE PLAN, WE'LL GO OUT TO THE SITE AND CHECK AND SEE IF THEY'RE WITHIN THE AREA THAT THEY'RE, IF THERE HAVE TO BE A COMPLAINT OR CAN THERE JUST BE A REGULAR OBSERVATION? I MEAN, WE GET ENOUGH COMPLAINTS THAT IT AMOUNTS TO A REGULAR OBSERVATION, BUT YEAH.
AND THEN HOW MANY VIOLATIONS? I MEAN, WHAT'S THE PROCESS LIKE? UM, SO WE WENT THROUGH THIS LAST YEAR WITH, I MEAN, A LOT OF THE OHV BUSINESSES HAD EXPANDED.
OH, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD BEEN IN BUSINESS FOR FIVE YEARS AND EXPANDED.
I THINK THERE WAS ONE IN PARTICULAR THAT ON THEIR APPLICATION THEY SAID, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TWO VEHICLES AND NONE OF THEM ARE GONNA BE HERE OVERNIGHT AND
[01:05:01]
KNOW, AND SO WE APPROACHED THEM, WE CONTACTED THEM AND SAID, OKAY, YOU, YOU'RE, YOU'VE GONE BEYOND WHAT WE APPROVED.HERE ARE THE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS.
WHERE ARE YOU PUTTING THEM? WHERE'S, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE PARKING GOING? UM, WE'RE MAKING SURE THEY'RE PUTTING IN THE RIGHT WALLS AND LANDSCAPING AND THAT THEY'RE, AND THEN AS PEOPLE TEND TO FORGET THAT THEY'RE GOOD FOR A WHILE, AND THEN WE WILL KIND OF DRIVE BY AND BE LIKE, OKAY, THEY'RE, THEY'RE GETTING A LITTLE OUT OF HAND.
SO HOW MANY REMINDINGS UNTIL IT'S TRIGGERED FOR THEM TO HAVE TO BE CODE COMPLIANT WITH THE NEW REQUIREMENTS.
UM, SO IF THEY GET TO THE POINT WHERE THEY CAN'T GET THEIR, IF THEY CAN'T GO BACK, I MEAN, LIKE THE EXAMPLE I USED WHERE THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, WE WE'RE GONNA HAVE TWO VEHICLES AND NOTHING'S GONNA BE OVERNIGHT.
IT WAS, THEY WERE NOT COMPLIANT WITH THEIR APPROVAL AT THAT POINT, SO THAT HAD TO COME BACK.
WHEREAS IF, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN, YOU KNOW, IF, IF IT'S A, I MEAN BRIAN MAYBE CAN SPEAK TO SOME OF THE CODE ENFORCEMENT PROCESSES, BUT IF THEY CAN GET IT BACK TO WHERE THEY CAN GET IT WHERE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE, WHEREAS IF THEY HAVE YEAH.
GROWN TO WHERE THEY CAN NO LONGER FIT THEIR VEHICLES IN THE AREA THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO MM-HMM.
IF, IF I COULD INTERJECT, I'M SORRY.
WELL, THE BUSINESS HAS AN OPTION TO EITHER COMPLY AT THAT POINT, IF OR IF THEY WANT TO EXPAND THEIR BUSINESS, THEN THEY HAVE THAT OPTION TO COMPLY WITH THE NEW CODE.
AND THEN THE CODE ENFORCEMENT PORTION OF THAT IS WE NORMALLY WILL GO AND GIVE THEM A NOTICE OF VIOLATION, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS.
UM, AND WE TRY TO WORK WITH THEM.
BUT, UM, THE NEXT STEP BEYOND THE NOTICE WOULD BE A CITATION TO APPEAR MM-HMM.
UM, SO YEAH, THERE'S, THERE'S THREE OPTIONS THAT WE HAVE IN THAT SENSE.
SO IF WE, IF WE WERE TO PASS SOMETHING, UH, LIKE THIS, WHETHER IT BE A, A SMALLER NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES, BECAUSE, UM, SOMETIMES THEY DO COME IN A, A, A CARLOAD OF SIX PEOPLE, THEN THEY RENT THREE OF THEM.
AND, UM, SO THAT'S JUST ONE CAR.
SO WHETHER WE NEED ONE TO ONE OR ONE TO TWO OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT MM-HMM.
WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND, AND MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME LATER ON, WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT, UH, NONCONFORMING LIGHTING AND UNDER THERE, YOU, WE HAVE A PROVISION FOR, UH, BY 2023, THEY ALL HAVE TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE.
HOW COME WE CAN'T HAVE A DATE ON THIS THAT SAYS BY 2030 OR WHATEVER THEY'RE, THEY HAVE TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE.
SO I MEAN THAT COMMISSIONERS, THAT'D BE BEST, UH, DISCUSSED IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
IF YOU WANNA GO INTO AN EXECUTIVE SESSION, WE, WE COULD DISCUSS THAT.
BUT THERE'S, THERE'S A VARIETY OF REASONS AND, UM, UH, AS AS TO WHY THIS, UM, YOU CAN AND CAN'T WHEN THINGS AREN'T, AREN'T GRANDFATHERED, UH, BASED ON ZONING OR REGULATORY OR POLICE POWERS OF THE CITY AND WHICH CATEGORY THEY FALL UNDER.
SO, AND, AND CASE LAW, AND THEN SOMETIMES JUST WHAT JUDGE YOU GET IN PREFERENCE.
SO, SO A A, A DEADLINE FOR FULL COMPLIANCE IS NOT SOMETHING THAT COULD UNIFORMLY BE APPLIED TO OTHER SECTIONS OF THE CODE, AS WILL HAS AT TIMES YES.
UM, SPECIFICALLY LIGHTINGS ONE WHERE COURTS HAVE APPROVED IT.
AH, UM, UH, AND, UM, BUT FOR, YEAH, FOR BUSINESS PARKING, THEY HAVE NOT IN THE PAST, AND SO IT MAY PERHAPS BE UNENFORCEABLE.
BUT WELL, UH, NOT FOR, UNLESS WE TALK NOT FOR THE LIGHTING AN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
THE LIGHTING HAS BEEN UPHELD BY ARIZONA COURTS BEFORE.
SO WE MIGHT RESERVE THAT, UH, UNTIL WE'VE GONE THROUGH ALL OF THE POTENTIAL REVISIONS AND SUGGESTION AND COME BACK AND DISCUSS WHETHER THAT'S NECESSARY TO DO COLLIE.
UM, SO I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE REQUIRED PARKING FOR CONFERENCE SLASH MEETING FACILITY.
UM, I, I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT I LOVE CODE.
THIS IS MY FIRST MEETING PACKAGE.
UM, IN THE PURPOSE OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE,
[01:10:01]
IT SPECIFICALLY CALLS OUT THAT WE ARE AVOIDING AND MITIGATING THE ADVERSE VISUAL IMPACTS OF LARGE CONCENTRATIONS OF EXPOSED PARKING.AN A A PARKING SPOT IS 18 BY NINE, WHICH IS 169 SQUARE FEET, WHICH MEANS IF YOU HAVE A CONFERENCE AND MEETING FACILITY, YOU NEED TRIPLE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE YOU HAVE INDOORS TO MEET THE PARKING CODE OUTDOORS.
BECAUSE IF IT'S 50 PER ONE RIGHT.
IT'S, SO IT'S 50, IT'S, SO IT'S OF THE MEETING AREA AND SO IT'S STILL NONE OF THE WHOLE FACILITY.
IT'S STILL TRIPLE IT'S, IT'S STILL TRIPLE.
AND, AND, AND THAT'S SOMETHING I IN GENERAL FIND OUR PARKING CODE TO BE REALLY, UM, NOT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE GOAL OF OUR COMMUNITY, WHICH IS MORE CURRENT INTENTION WITH STEPS MORE WALKABLE, MORE BIKEABLE, BUILDING THESE EXPANSIVE PARKING LOTS, MAKING PARK PARKING REQUIREMENTS MORE STRINGENT.
AND SO THE IDEA THAT ONE PER 50, EVEN IF IT'S JUST THE MEETING AREAS, THAT IS AN INCREDIBLE PARKING LOAD FOR ANY SIGNIFICANT MEETING AREA.
UM, YOU KNOW, SO I TOTALLY GET THAT.
WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE PARKING ALL OVER OUR NEIGHBORHOODS.
WE HAVE HAD ISSUES WITH PARKING IN CERTAIN LOCATIONS.
I'M NOT WRITING OFF THAT PARKING DOESN'T HAVE ITS PLACE, BUT TO MAKE A CHANGE OF THIS KIND THAT COULD POTENTIALLY, AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND IT'S LIKE WE'RE, WE'RE NITPICKING CODE AND WE'RE MAKING IT MORE CLEAR IN ALL OF THOSE THINGS, BUT ONE TO ONE TO 50 S A LOT.
AND A DEVELOPER WHO HAS ENOUGH MONEY WHO SEES, YOU KNOW, A BENEFIT IN A BIG MEETING, YOU KNOW, A DESTINATION PLACE FOR THEIR CONFERENCES OR WHATEVER, WE'LL BUILD IT AND THEN WE WILL HAVE THIS EXPANSIVE PARKING LOT AS THE MAJORITY OF THE USE OF THE LAND THAT WE HAVE VERY LITTLE LEFT OF ALREADY.
AND SO YOU'RE, THIS IS BASICALLY MY PITCH FOR ALL, ALL KIND OF INCREASES IN PARKING IN GENERAL IS, I'M NOT SAYING WE DON'T NEED IT WHEN IT'S APPROPRIATE, BUT I DON'T WANNA BE REACTIONARY AND CREATE THESE LARGE SWATHS OF THEY'RE NOT HOPEFULLY NOT GONNA BE PAVEMENT NOW.
WE'RE, WE'RE, WE LIKE PERMEABLE SURFACES MM-HMM.
WE DO, BUT THERE'S STILL HUGE SWATHS OF THE ONLY WAY WE THINK ABOUT TRAVEL HIS CARS, AND WHY AREN'T WE CHANGING OUR PERSPECTIVE OF WHY WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT CARS BECAUSE THAT'S OUR FUTURE IS MICRO TRA TRANSIT AND BIKES AND WALKING AND ALL THESE THINGS.
AND SO I JUST WANT TO BE ATTENTIVE TO, AS WE CHANGE THIS CODE WHERE WE MAYBE AGAIN, UNINTENTIONALLY ARE CREATING LARGE SWATHS OF PARKING LOTS WHEN THERE MAY BE ALTERNATIVES.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING ON THIS PAGE? IF, IF I COULD JUST ADD TO THAT.
UH, ACTUALLY YOUR PARKING CARTILAGE IS PROBABLY TOO LOW.
IT'S, IT'S UNDER, I ROUNDED DOWN YEAH.
BUT I, I'M JUST SAYING YOU NEED ROOM TO BACK UP.
YOU NEED PATHWAYS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
MAC DID THE ACTUAL MATH EARLIER.
IT'S JUST FOR THE SPOT, NOT THE, YEAH.
CUZ YOU GOTTA HAVE TURNAROUNDS AND UHUH TORNADO.
AND AGAIN, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, UH, THE MORE, UH, SURFACE AREA THAT'S PARKING, I ALWAYS LOOK FROM WATER PERSPECTIVE, MORE RUNOFF, MORE POLLUTANTS, EVERYTHING ELSE YEAH.
UH, BUT, BUT CARRIE, IS THAT JUST MORE OR LESS A INDU INDUSTRY STANDARD? I MEAN, YOU DIDN'T JUST MAKE THIS UP? NO.
SO AS IT, UM, YOU KNOW, SAYS IN IT'S KIND OF THE NOTES COLUMN, UM, RIGHT NOW CONFERENCE FACILITIES HAVE A LOWER PARKING REQUIREMENT THAN LIKE A RETAIL STORE.
UM, JUST THE WAY IT'S ALL CATEGORIZED.
AND THAT DIDN'T SEEM ADEQUATE.
AND SO WE LOOKED AT OTHER SIMILAR USES AND THE, WE JUST, THE PROPOSAL WAS TO MIRROR WHAT, UM, WE HAD FOR CHURCHES, ESSENTIALLY WITH THE IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY LOOK AT THEIR SANCTUARY, MAXIMUM OCCUPANCY OF THAT BASE, THEIR PARKING AND, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T REALLY COUNT THEIR ANCILLARY USES.
UM, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, A FULL SANCTUARY FOR A CHURCH WOULD REPRESENT THE HIGHEST USE, UM, OCCUPANT LOAD.
UM, AND SO TAKING THE RELIGIOUS ASPECT OUT OF IT, WE THOUGHT THAT A CONFERENCE FACILITY WAS MOST SIMILAR TO THAT USE.
AND, UM, SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE THE PROPOSAL CAME FROM.
UM, BUT YEAH, YOU HAVE OTHER IDEAS WITH THE COMMISSION WANTS TO MAKE A MODIFICATION, WE CAN IS RETAIL ONE PER TWO 50 MM-HMM.
[01:15:01]
UM, LET'S USE ARABELLA AS AN EXAMPLE MM-HMM.THERE WAS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF CROSS USE MM-HMM.
WHICH THEY WERE ABLE TO SHARED, SHARED PARKING, REDUCE SHARED PARKING, CONKY CALCULATION MM-HMM.
SO THEY WERE ABLE TO REDUCE THE REQUIRED AMOUNT THAT THEY WERE PROPOSING.
UM, WOULD THAT ALSO, COULD THAT ALSO APPLY HERE? SO IF A CONFERENCE FACILITY WAS ATTACHED TO A HOTEL OR SOMETHING? YEAH, SO A LOT OF, I MEAN, THAT'S TYPICALLY WHERE YOU SEE CONFERENCE FACILITIES.
AND THEY'LL GO THROUGH AND SAY, OKAY, LIKE OUR GUEST ROOMS, THE CARS FOR THE GUEST ROOMS ARE GONNA BE THERE AT NIGHT.
OUR CONFERENCE USERS ARE GONNA BE THERE IN THE DAY AND THERE'S GONNA BE SHARED PARKING.
AND THEN WE WOULD LOOK AT YEAH.
UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS GIVEN THE DIFFERENT USES, CAN THEY SHARE THE PARKING? YOU KNOW, A HOTEL GUEST IS GONNA BE IN THE SPOT IN THE AT NIGHT AND CONFERENCE IN THE MORNING.
THERE'S ALSO, UM, USING THE CHURCHES AS AN EXAMPLE, CHURCHES TYPICALLY HAVE A VERY HIGH PARKING DEMAND ON A WEEKEND, A SUNDAY MORNING PERHAPS, AND NOT SO MUCH DURING THE DAY.
SO THERE'S LIKE SHARED PARKING POTENTIAL THERE TOO.
AND SO IF A CONFERENCE FACILITY CAME IN AND SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE'RE GONNA HAVE CONFERENCES FRIDAY, SATURDAY, SUNDAY, AND THERE'S A BUSINESS PARK NEXT DOOR THAT'S OPEN MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY, AND WE WON'T START OURS UNTIL THE BUSINESSES ARE CLOSED.
LIKE, THERE'S THOSE POSSIBILITIES AS WELL.
SO THIS WOULD REPRESENT MORE OF A MAXIMUM THAN YEAH.
IT WOULD REPRESENT WHAT THEY WOULD NEED TO SHOW THAT THEY CAN ACCOMMODATE NOT NECESS, YOU KNOW, AND SO IF THEY HAVE, DON'T NECESSARILY BUILD, UM, YEAH.
BUILD, UM, YOU KNOW, IF THEY WANT TO COME IN AND SAY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING, YOU KNOW, HERE'S OUR SH SHUTTLING PLAN, WE'RE PARTNERING WITH THIS HOTEL OR SOMETHING, THERE'S, UM, BUT A SHARED PARKING AGREEMENT WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR THAT.
WHICH THE PARKING LOT PEOPLE COULD PULL OUT OF IT AT ANY TIME.
AND SO, WELL WITHIN THE AGREEMENT, THE WAY OUR CODE WOULD, UM, SAY THAT PARKING AGREEMENTS WOULD NEED TO BE STRUCTURED IN ORDER TO COUNT FOR, TO MEET YOUR PARKING REQUIREMENTS IS THAT IT'S NON REVOCABLE OR THAT THE CITY IS, UM, A PART OF THAT AGREEMENT SO THAT WE BECOME AWARE IF IT BECOMES, IF IT GETS REVOKED OR IF IT CHANGES.
AGAIN, JUST PUTTING SOMEONE'S BUSINESS POTENTIALLY AT RISK.
I'M GONNA BE, I'M GONNA BE THAT PERSON I THINK TONIGHT.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? PAGE NINE, HEARING NOTHING.
PAGE 10 STARTS WITH SECTION 5.8.
WAIT, ROLL BACK FIVE, 5.5 0.7.
YOU HAVE SOMETHING? I HAVE A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS.
UM, SO I SEE THE, THE, I I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT MANUFACTURING.
CAN YOU MOVE YOUR MICROPHONE, SORRY, MANUFACTURED HOMES MM-HMM.
UM, AND, UM, I MEAN THERE'S DIFFERENT KINDS OF MANUFACTURED HOMES, SO I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN HERE BECAUSE, UH, MODULAR HOMES USUALLY COULD MEET THAT.
SO MANUFACTURED HOMES ARE GENERALLY THE ONES THAT MEET HUD STANDARDS, NOT BUILDING CODE STANDARDS.
AND WE ALLOW THOSE IN CERTAIN ZONES.
UM, AND SO I GUESS THE CONCERN, IT'S A CONCERN THAT I HAVE BECAUSE WE'RE IN, IT'S ALMOST LIKE WE'RE INCENTIVIZING MANUFACTURED HOMES AS OPPOSED IF SOMEONE HAS A LOT HERE IN SEDONA, UH, AND WANTS TO BUILD A STICK HOME ON IT, UH, THEN THEY HAVE THE SAME, THESE MASSING REQUIREMENTS, WHICH CONSIDERABLY, UH, INCREASE THE COST, UH, BECAUSE IT BECOMES A CUSTOM HOME.
AND THE, THE RATES THAT THE CONTRACTORS OR SUBCONTRACTORS CHARGE FOR, FOR, UH, ONE OF THOSE HOMES IS LESS THAN, OR IS MORE, EXCUSE ME, THAN IF I WAS TO BUILD IN, UM, ONE OF OUR NEIGHBORING COMMUNITIES.
AND SO, UM, I DON'T UNDERSTAND MASSING THE ONE 5.7 F TWO IS, IS THIS, DOES THIS TAKE CARE OF ALL THE OTHER PROPERTIES THAT, UH, OR WAS EVERYBODY ELSE GONNA REMAIN IN THE SAME MASSING? SO THE MASSING REQUIRMENTS WOULD REMAIN UNCHANGED FOR ALL NON-MANUFACTURER
[01:20:01]
HOMES? UM, YOU KNOW WHAT WE, THE, THIS PROPOSAL WAS IN THERE IS IN THERE BECAUSE WHAT WE HAVE FOUND IS THAT THERE'S JUST NOT THE OPTIONS FOR PEOPLE TO GET, UM, MANUFACTURED HOMES THAT MEET OUR CODE REQUIREMENTS.AND SO, UM, IT'S BEEN PREVENTING THEM FROM BEING IN, SO IT'S A LESS EXPENSIVE HOUSING OPTION FOR WHERE THEY'RE ALLOWED.
SO, SO WE WOULDN'T BE INCREASING ANY REQUIREMENTS, BUT WE WOULD BE DECREASING THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE MANUFACTURED HOMES.
SO THIS IS MEANT AS, UM, AN INCENTIVE TO CREATE MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
I DON'T KNOW IF I'D USE THE WORD INCENTIVE, BUT AN ALLOWANCE THAT, UM, IF YOU'RE IN ONE OF THE ZONING DISTRICTS THAT ALLOWS MANUFACTURED HOMES AND, UM, THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING TO PUT ON A LOT, UM, THAT THERE ARE OPTIONS THAT ARE POSSIBLE FOR YOU.
AND SO ARE THOSE THE SMALLER ZONES, LIKE RS 10 OR 12? NO, IT'S RS SIX OR RMH, UM, OH, MOBILE HOME.
SO THEY'RE APP APPROPRIATE NEITHER.
AND IS IT JUST THOSE TWO? JUST THOSE TWO.
AND SO RS SIX WOULD BE A 6,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT? RIGHT.
AN RMH, I THINK IT'S WOULD BE A DEDICATED MOBILE HOME SUBDIVISION? NO, THERE'S A COUPLE RMH ZONES AROUND TOWN.
UM, MOSTLY KIND OF, UM, I THINK THEY'RE MOSTLY LIKE IN THE ANTE AREA, UM, BUT THEY'RE AT LIKE A 10,000 SQUARE FOOT MINIMUM ON SIZE, I BELIEVE.
WELL, DID YOU WANNA COMPLETE? WELL, I JUST KNOW PEOPLE THAT WOULD LIKE TO BUILD, UM, LONG-TERM RENTALS HERE IN SEDONA AND BECAUSE OF THE MASTERING REQUIREMENTS THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE, UM, IT JUST DOESN'T PENCIL OUT.
IT'S AS MUCH AS $300,000 MORE FOR OUR HOUSE THAN TO BUILD AS A RENTAL.
UM, I'M NOT SAYING THAT WE SHOULDN'T HAVE IT, IT JUST SEEMS A LITTLE BIT UNFAIR THAT YOU'RE GONNA, UH, REDUCE THE MASSING REQUIREMENTS ELSEWHERE BECAUSE WHILE THOSE ARE THOSE, I GUESS MOBILE HOMES OR WHATEVER, THERE ARE MODULAR MANUFACTURED HOMES THAT COULD MEET THE MASSING REQUIREMENTS.
I KNOW WE'VE TALKED WITH SHANNON ABOUT MASSING AND HOUSING AND ALL OF THAT AND THAT LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE MENTIONED EARLIER WE WOULD ANTICIPATE, YOU KNOW, WE CAN ADD IT TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE A NOTE OF THAT AND UM, YOU KNOW, IF WE BRING BACK OTHER CHANGES IN THE FUTURE, THAT MAY BE PART OF IT.
UM, BUT THIS IS, I MEAN, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING TODAY.
UM, BUT WE CAN DEFINITELY MAKE NOTES OR, I MEAN, IF YOU WANNA MAKE CHANGES TO IT, WE'LL LISTEN, AND I'M SORRY, UH, IF I COULD ADD TO THAT, THAT PART OF IT WAS THE FACT THAT WITH MANUFACTURED HOMES, WE HAVE A VERY SMALL ABILITY TO MEET, IF ANY ABILITY TO MEET OUR MASSING REQUIREMENTS MM-HMM.
AND SO WHAT WE HAVE BEEN FORCED TO DO IS NOW TELL SOMEBODY WHO MAYBE CAN ONLY AFFORD A MANUFACTURED HOME THAT YOU NOW HAVE TO BUILD ANOTHER STRUCTURE NEXT TO IT MM-HMM.
SO NOW WE'RE ALSO ADDING ADDITIONAL COSTS BEYOND THE COST OF THE HOUSE MM-HMM.
SO I THINK THAT WAS A PART OF IT AS WELL.
OUR CART PORTS ALLOWED, UM, AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A GARAGE.
N NOT, NOT WHEN A GARAGE IS REQUIRED, WHICH IS OVER 1500 SQUARE FEET.
BUT ONLY BUT UNDER 1500, THEN THE MASSING REQUIREMENT WOULD GO AWAY IF YOU COULD BUILD A CARPORT.
UM, SO UN SO UNDER THIS PROPOSAL, A MANUFACTURED HOME UNDER 1500 SQUARE FOOT WOULD NOT HAVE A MASSING REQUIREMENT.
AND SO THE GARAGE CAN BE THAT SECOND MASS.
AND SO THEY WOULDN'T NEED TO BE ADDING ANOTHER SHED OR SOME KIND OF, BECAUSE YOU'RE ALSO LIMITED IN WHAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY ADD ON TO A MANUFACTURED HOME.
YOU KIND OF HAVE TO INSTALL IT AS CONSTRUCTED.
AND SO AS OPPOSED TO NONE MM-HMM.
ANYTHING ELSE ON THAT PAGE YOU'D LIKE TO DISCUSS?
[01:25:02]
OKAY.LET'S MOVE ON TO 10, WHICH STARTS WITH 5.8 C2 GEORGE.
UM, SEE YOUR HAND UP OUT THE CORNER OF MY EYE.
SO, UM, THE, WHICH ONE ARE YOU ON? UH, 5.8 C4.
SO THE, UH, REGARDING NON-CONFORMING LIGHTING, UM, IT ALLOWS, UH, UM, THESE PROPERTIES TO BE BROUGHT IN COMPLIANCE BY JANUARY 1ST.
BASIS FOR THAT DATE? UM, WE HAD ORIGINALLY THOUGHT OF AN EARLIER DATE, BUT GIVEN THAT OUR STANCE UP UNTIL THIS POINT HAS BEEN THAT THERE IS NON-CONFORMING LIGHTING, UM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S BEEN A WHILE, WHILE SINCE WE'VE HAD THE, UM, LIGHTING CODE, OUR CITY ATTORNEY RECOMMENDED, WE GIVE THEM A COUPLE MORE YEARS TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE.
I WAS WONDERING HOW LONG A LAMP LASTED.
MAYBE IT WAS TIED TO THAT, YOU KNOW,
ANYONE ELSE, LYNN, ON THAT SAME ITEM? IF THEY DON'T, UH, COMPLY BY JANUARY 1ST, 2030, IS IS THERE A PENALTY OR A FINE AT, AND IS IT APPROPRIATE TO PERHAPS ARTICULATE THAT HERE OR, UM, WELL, IT WOULD GO THROUGH OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT PROCESS AND AT THAT POINT WHERE THEY WOULD GET A NOTICE OF VIOLATION AND HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE OUT THEIR LIGHT.
AND IF THEY DIDN'T, I GUESS IT COULD GO TO COURT AND THEY COULD BE FINED.
IT'S KIND OF THE ULTIMATE CONCLUSION OF THAT PROCESS.
BUT, UM, WE GENERALLY DON'T DO VIOLATION PROCEDURES IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE ALLOW THE COURTS TO DO THAT.
BUT ANY VIOLATION OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE IS A CLASS ONE MISDEMEANOR AND A CIVIL OFFENSE AND CAN BE PUNISHED ACCORDINGLY.
SO ANY BUSINESS THAT MAY HAVE CREATED THEIR LIGHTING RIGHT AFTER THE DARK SKY LIGHTING ORDINANCE IN 2001 MM-HMM.
AND SO REALLY THIS APPLIES TO PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING SINCE, OR THEY HAD THEIR LIGHTING SINCE PRE 2001.
AND UM, YOU KNOW, AS MENTIONED, THIS CAME OUT OUT OF CODE ENFORCEMENT AS, YOU KNOW, YOU GET FURTHER ALONG IT, YOU KNOW, IT GETS HARDER TO PROVE A NON-COMPLIANT FIXTURE.
AND SO THEY BET SPENT QUITE A BIT OF TIME TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHEN FIXTURES WERE INSTALLED.
AND SO THEY HAD REQUESTED JUST TO KIND OF HAVE A, AFTER THIS DATE, WE'RE NOT GOING BACK AND RESEARCHING AND DECIDING THAT YOUR HOUSE WAS BUILT IN 1995 AND, AND THAT SORT OF THING.
ANYTHING ELSE ON THAT PAGE? OKAY.
STARTS WITH 7.3
EXPLAIN, I MEAN, SPECIFICALLY THE FIRST TWO ITEMS, I MEAN, IT, IT'S TALKING ABOUT LOTS SPLITTING AND SO FORTH.
AND SO COULD YOU WALK THROUGH THAT A LITTLE BIT? I THINK THE FIRST ONE IS A CLERICAL MISTAKE.
UM, WE DON'T HAVE LOT SIZE MAXIMUMS. WE HAVE LOT SIZE MINIMUMS, BUT THAT SECTION SAID IT HAS TO COMPLY WITH THE MAXIMUM LOT SIZE REQUIREMENT.
SO THAT'S JUST A, THE WRONG WORD WAS USED THERE.
UM, THE, THE SECOND ONE IS WHEN WE'VE HAD, IF YOU COMBINE TWO LOTS WITH DIFFERENT ZONING OR DIFFERENT COMMUNITY PLAN DESIGNATIONS, YOU GET INTO, YOU KNOW, WHAT SETBACKS DO YOU APPLY? WHAT DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS DO YOU APPLY IT, IT GETS, UM, CONFUSING AND IT CAN, IT JUST CREATES KIND OF MORE HEADACHES THAN IT'S MAY MIGHT BE WORTH.
UM, WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE LOTS IN TOWN THAT WE'LL HAVE TO DEAL WITH KIND OF FLOP BY LIKE CASE BY CASE OF HOW TO, HOW TO DO THAT.
UM, BUT GOING FORWARD WE DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO CONTINUE CREATING THEM
[01:30:01]
WHEN THEY'RE KIND OF A HEADACHE TO DEAL WITH.WELL, WHERE THERE ARE EXISTING LOTS THAT HAVE THE SPLIT ZONING, THIS DOESN'T TOUCH THAT.
BUT ARE YOU SAYING, SO IF SOMEONE CAME IN AND THEY OWN TWO ADJACENT LOTS RIGHT.
AND THEY WANTED TO COMBINE THEM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WOULD THEN LOOK FOR IS DO THEY HAVE THE SAME ZONING? AND IF THEY DON'T, THEY WOULD EITHER NEED TO REZONE ONE OF THEM OR JUST NOT COMBINE THEM.
I MEAN A LOT OF THE OTHER, I MEAN THERE'S A LOT OF CHANGES IN ARTICLE EIGHT THAT ARE THERE BECAUSE WE ADDED A CODE SECTION THE LAST TIME AROUND THAT WE WENT PUT IN THE MIDDLE.
AND SO IT CHANGED THE NUMBERING OH, OKAY.
OF EVERYTHING AFTER IT AND ALL VERY CLERICAL.
BUT THERE WAS LIKE CROSS REFERENCES IN THE CODE THAT DIDN'T GET UPDATED WHEN MM-HMM.
WELL GOOD FOR YOU FOR FINDING MACE,
SO IF WE SAID NO, LOTS CAN COM CAN BE COMBINED WITH DIFFERENT ZONING AND NO, LOTS CAN BE SPLIT WITH DIFFERENT ZONING.
WELL, YOU WOULDN'T, YOU WOULDN'T MAKE ONE WITH SPLIT.
SO THEN WHAT HAPPENS TO LOTS THAT ARE ALREADY THIS WAY? AND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS WE'LL DEAL WITH IT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
I MEAN, THE MOST RECENT EXAMPLE WAS THE SUNSET LOFTS.
AND, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER THING IS THAT WHEN YOU LOSE THE LOT LINE, YOU COULD POTENTIALLY LOSE THE LEGAL DEFINITION OF WHERE THAT ZONING BOUNDARY IS.
SO IT CAN BE EVEN HARD TO TELL SPECIFICALLY IF YOU'RE GONNA DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, WHERE DOES THAT SPLIT HAPPEN? AND SO WITH SUNSET LOFTS, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE DOING THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECT AND SO THEY ALREADY HAD A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT THAT WE WORKED INTO THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, HOW WE WERE GONNA ADDRESS THE SPLIT ZONING, AND, AND WE TOOK THAT TO CITY COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL MM-HMM.
AND SO THIS WILL JUST PREVENT MORE OF THOSE FROM BE BEING CREATED.
THERE'S ONLY A FEW MORE OUT THERE MM-HMM.
I MEAN, WE, I CAN SEE WHY WE WOULDN'T WANT TO CREATE THEM, BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE.
AND SO WE DID IN THE CATEGORY, DISCUSS IF WE SHOULD HAVE A CODE SECTION THAT TALKS ABOUT HOW TO DEAL WITH THE EXISTING ONES, BUT IN LOOKING, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF EXISTING ONES AND THEY'RE ALL JUST A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT WHERE WE DIDN'T WANT TO APPLY A SINGLE RULE TO ALL OF THEM.
WE DID WANT TO BE ABLE TO KEEP THAT ABILITY TO, UM, LOOK AT THEM ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS, BUT, AND THERE'S NOT SO MANY THAT IT'S GONNA BE A BURDENSOME BURDEN.
WE'LL DO IT AS IT AS THEY COME IN, BUT WE DIDN'T WANNA CREATE MORE OF THAT GOING FORWARD.
ANYBODY ELSE? WHAT PAGE ARE WE ON? SORRY.
WE'RE ON, WE'RE NOW STARTING WITH ARTICLE NINE ON PAGE 12.
I, I TALKED TO, UH, CARRIE ABOUT THIS, BUT I, UM, I'LL JUST BRING IT UP FOR THE ENTIRE, UH, COMMISSION THAT I DIDN'T THINK, UH, RECREATIONAL FACILITY SHOULD INCLUDE ART GALLERIES, ART GALLERY STUDIOS AND CENTERS.
AND THAT, UM, IT'S JUST DIDN'T STRIKE ME AS COMPATIBLE.
SO I JUST SUGGESTED THAT PERHAPS ART GALLERY STUDIOS AND CENTERS BE PULLED OUT OF THIS AND SEPARATELY, UH, DEFINED IN THE ARTICLE NINE DEFINITIONS.
I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION ON THIS ONE THAT HOPEFULLY WASN'T ASKED WHILE I WAS GONE.
WHAT ARE SIMILAR VEHICLES IN THE DEFINITION? WHERE ARE YOU, KELLY? 9.4 POINT C OHV DEFINITIONS.
IT SAYS, UM, WAIT, WE HAVE A CUT.
WE'RE SORRY WE'RE THERE RIGHT NOW.
YEAH, I GOT AHEAD OF MYSELF,
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE A COMMENT ON THIS PAGE OR A SUGGESTION? SO TO ANSWER COLLIE'S QUESTION, UM, SIMILAR VEHICLES WOULD BE THE THINGS YOU THINK OF WHEN YOU THINK OF AN O H V.
I MEAN, IT WOULD, WE DIDN'T, I THINK WE JUST DIDN'T WANT TO GO THROUGH AND TRY TO LIST EVERY DIFFERENT TYPE OF VEHICLE.
UM, IS IT LIKE JEEPS OR JEEPS IN THIS LITTLE OR JEEP? UM, JEEPS, LIKE A FULL SIZE JEEP WOULD BE AN AUTOMOBILE, LIKE A FULL SIZE CAR LOOKING MORE AT THE SMALLER, UM,
[01:35:02]
VEHICLES.AND SO YOU CAN KIND OF LOOK AT THE TYPICAL SIZES OF THOSE CARS IF WE NEEDED TO CATEGORIZE.
I THINK I MIGHT LOVE A CATEGORY BY SIZE, POTENTIALLY NOT A STICKING POINT, BUT I DON'T, IT FEELS VAGUE.
AND THE STATE'S CURRENTLY LOOKING AT A, A STATE LAW THAT WOULD ALLOW OHB TO WEIGH LIKE 500 POUNDS.
SO THEN YOUR CATEGORY'S GONNA BE REALLY TOUGH.
HOPEFULLY THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? IS THERE, UH, ANY CONSENSUS ON PULLING OUT ART CENTERS FROM THAT DEFINITION? I'D BE HAPPY TO DO THAT.
IS THERE ANY CONSENSUS ON PULLING OUT ART CENTERS, ART GALLERIES, STUDIOS AND CENTERS FROM THAT DEFINITION IN RECREATION? OKAY.
YEAH, PAGE 13 STARTS WITH 9.4 C.
ANYONE GOING ONCE
AND, UM, SHE SAID THAT WITH, WELL, COULD YOU HIGHLIGHT THE NEW LAW? YEAH.
OR MAYBE, AND KURT CAN INTERRUPT ME IF I'M, IF I SAY SOMETHING WRONG, BUT THERE IS A STATE, A NEW STATE LAW THAT STATES THAT IF IT'S AN EVENT THAT THE CITY HAS DETERMINED NEEDS A TEMPORARY USE PERMIT, WE CAN PROHIBIT THEM FROM OCCURRING IN SHORT-TERM RENTALS.
AND SO THAT'S WHY WE ADDED A COUPLE THINGS TO THE DEFINITION OF THE TEMPORARY USE PERMIT SO THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, IF SOMEONE DID WANT TO HAVE A WEDDING IN THEIR OWN BACKYARD, THERE WOULD BE A PERMIT THEY WOULD NEED TO GET.
NOW WE'LL TRY, WE'LL COME UP WITH A PROCESS TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE THAT AS STRAIGHTFORWARD AS POSSIBLE, BUT BY ENSURING THAT WE REQUIRE A PERMIT, WE CAN PREVENT THE SHORT-TERM RENTALS FROM REALLY BECOMING THESE WEDDING VENUES AND EVENT CENTERS.
SO, UH, PER PER STATE LAW AND CITY ORDINANCE NOW, UH, SPECIAL EVENTS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE HELD AT SHORT-TERM RENTALS.
UM, AND SO THIS IS, THIS JUST FURTHER DEFINES WHAT A SPECIAL EVENT IS.
WHAT, HOW MANY SPECIAL EVENT PERMITS CAN PROPERTY GET PER YEAR? UH, LIMIT 10, WHICH FOR, AND, AND THAT WOULD BE FOR RESIDENCES IN THE SHORT TERM RENTAL CASE, THEY'RE ALLOWED ZERO SPECIAL EVENTS.
ANYBODY ELSE ON THAT PAGE? WE'RE AT 3.2.
SO THE REST OF THOSE ARE ONES, THEY'RE INCLUDED IN THE REST OF THE DOCUMENT, BUT WE JUST INCLUDED ALL THE OHV STUFF AT THE, AT THE LAST COUPLE PAGES, JUST IF YOU WANT TO SEE EVERYTHING.
SO UNLESS YOU WANNA CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT OHVS, THOSE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALL INCLUDED IN PREVIOUS DISCUSSION.
YOU PUT 'EM ALL IN ONE PLACE AND THEN PAGE 15, CAP IT OFF.
NOW WHAT, UM, COMMISSIONER HURST DID YOU WANT TO CALL FOR A, A REQUEST THAT WE CONSIDER GOING INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION TO DISCUSS THE MATTER YOU RAISED EARLIER AROUND, WHAT WAS IT?
AND DO YOU HAVE ANY ADVICE AT THIS POINT, KURT, BEFORE WE MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION? I, I, WE CAN CERTAINLY DISCUSS IT.
I DON'T THINK IT'D TAKE TOO LONG TO EXPLAIN.
I'M, I MEAN, I THINK I MIGHT BE FRIVOLOUS TO DO IT, SO, UH, I'M WILLING TO GO INTO CLOSED SESSION, BUT I, I JUST DON'T WANT TO GO FOR NO REASON AT ALL.
SO WE WON'T CONSIDER DOING THAT.
I HAVE A SUGGESTION THOUGH, MAYBE BEFORE OUR NEXT MEETING, UH, WE COULD HAVE AN EXECUTIVE SESSION THAT WOULD RELATE NOT ONLY TO THE PARKING, BUT TO THESE OTHER INSTANCES, JUST SO WE HAVE A CLEAR, I I CAN PREPARE A MEMO AND SEND IT OUT.
I NEED TO DO THAT FOR CITY COUNCIL AS WELL.
[01:40:01]
QUESTIONS AS, AS P AND Z COMMISSION HERE, SO.UM, AND, AND EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE CITY'S POLICE POWER AND THE CITY ZONING POWER.
AND WHAT GETS GRANDFATHER WHAT DOESN'T.
WILL THAT ACCOMPANY OUR RECOMMENDATION? YEAH, THAT WILL, YES, THAT WILL GO.
SO THEN WE COULD SEE THAT YES.
SOUNDS LIKE, SO, UH, I'M GONNA OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING NOW.
WE HAVE ONE PERSON WHO'S PATIENTLY WAITED SINCE FOUR 30,
AND MR. SWANSON, IF YOU'LL COME UP TO THE PODIUM, INTRODUCE YOURSELF, NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE, AND YOU'LL HAVE THREE MINUTES TO SPEAK.
GREG SWANSON, RESIDENT OF SEDONA.
AND IS THAT MIC ON? IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT.
I CAN SPEAK LOUD ENOUGH FOR EVERYBODY TO HEAR.
SO IT'S JUST NOT GONNA COME AND USE THIS MICROPHONE HERE IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO.
CRAIG, DO YOU MIND MOVING OVER THERE TO THE TABLE? THANK YOU.
YOU STILL ONLY GET THREE MINUTES.
AND I'M, UH, PRESIDENT OF KEONA.
I JUST WANNA MAKE A COMMENTS ON ONE, THE DARK SKY COMPLIANCE PORTION OF THIS SECOND.
THE O HV PORTION AND KSB HAS BEEN ONE OF THE CHAMPIONS OF DARK SKY COMPLIANCE FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
WE'RE, UH, WE FIND THE 2030 TIMEFRAME FOR THIS VERY ACCEPTABLE TO GIVE RESIDENTS IN BUSINESSES SUFFICIENT TIME TO MEET THE CODE.
BUT WHAT WE WANT TO POINT OUT IS THE CITY THEN NEEDS TO SUPPLY ASSISTANCE TO BUSINESSES AND RESIDENTS, INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT COMPLIANT FIXTURES ARE, AND POTENTIALLY SOME MONETARY ASSISTANCE, PARTICULARLY FOR THOSE WHO ARE LESS WELL OFF IN THE COMMUNITY.
THE COST OF THIS IS NOT IN THE LIGHTS, THE COST OF IT IS IN THE FIXTURES.
AND FOR A BUSINESS, PUTTING THAT NEW FIXTURE IN THE COST FOR AN ELECTRICIAN CAN EXCEED THE COST FOR THE FIXTURE.
SO IT'S NOT A CHEAP THING TO DO.
K S B STANDS READY TO HELP WITH THAT.
WE'RE CURRENTLY AT THE BEGINNING PROCESS OF, UH, GRANDFATHERED LIGHTING PROCESS.
THAT'S PART OF THE, UH, SUSTAINABLE TOURISM PLAN.
WE'VE RECEIVED A GRANT FROM THE CITY TO ASSIST WITH THAT.
WE'RE FINDING IT A HARD SELL WITH BUSINESSES.
OBVIOUSLY, IF THIS IS REQUIRED, IT'S GONNA BE A MUCH EASIER SALE BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO IT.
THE SOONER THEY DO IT, THE BETTER BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA SEE THE SAVINGS IN NEW L E D FIXTURES AS OPPOSED TO CONTESTANTS.
WE THINK THIS IS JUST A WONDERFUL IDEA.
THE TIMEFRAME IS VERY GOOD ON OH FEES.
WE DO SUPPORT THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
WE UNDERSTAND THAT NOT ALL OH, FEES ARE RENTED AT THE SAME TIME.
THAT'S A VERY INFREQUENT SITUATION.
SO THAT THE ONE-TO-ONE RATIO OF PARKING TO OH FEE DOESN'T NECESSARILY, DOESN'T SEEM TO US TO BE, UH, THERE, THERE SHOULD BE SOME FLEXIBILITY IN THAT BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THEY'RE NOT ALL RENTED.
UH, TO CO'S POINT ABOUT THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF USING CODE, WE THINK THAT THOSE UNIN UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES ARE LESS SIGNIFICANT THAN ALLOWING MORE RENTAL COMPANIES TO CROP UP IN VERY CRAMPED SPACES.
UH, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, THAT THIS IS ONE OF THE WAYS THAT GIVEN THE STATE OF ARIZONA, THE CITY OF SEDONA CAN HAVE SOME MORE CONTROL OVER THE PROLIFERATION OF OH FEES.
SO IS THE COMMISSION READY TO CHAIR? SORRY, I'M SORRY.
I ALSO GOT A EMAILED PUBLIC COMMENT DURING THE MEETING JUST TO OH, IF, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THAT ONE.
DID THAT COME IN ONLINE OR? YEAH, IT CAME IN THROUGH OUR AT 4 26.
UM, THIS AFTERNOON FROM DAVID TRACY.
UM, TALKING ABOUT THE CHANGES FOR THE, UM, LES ALLOW THE REMOVAL OF ALLOWING LESS THAN SEVEN UNITS, UM, OF LODGING FROM THE OC DISTRICT.
HE SAID THIS PROPOSED CHANGE WOULD NOT SEEM TO BE APPLICABLE FOR THE OC DISTRICT.
THE NUMBER OF LODGING UNITS IS DOUBLE THE UNDERLYING ZONING.
UM, SO IF A LOT IS SPLIT, SO IS THE ALLOWABLE NUMBER OF LODGING UNITS.
DOESN'T SEEM ENDS PUBLIC COMMENT.
I CAN ADDRESS THAT IF ONCE THE PUBLIC
[01:45:01]
COMMENT PERIOD IS CLOSED.I'M GONNA CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING PORTION OF THIS.
AND, UH, BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION AND IF YOU WANNA YEAH.
THE OC DISTRICT CURRENTLY ALLOWS MEDIUM DENSITY LODGING, WHICH IS UP TO EIGHT UNITS PER ACRE, WHICH WOULD BE THE MAXIMUM ALLOWED DENSITY IN THE OC DISTRICT THAT IS NOT BEING TOUCHED.
OBVIOUSLY DEPENDENT ON THE PREVIOUS RESIDENTIAL ZONING.
WILL YOU RES BE RESPONDING TO HIM? YEAH.
SO BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR ANY, UM, ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION OR NOT.
UM, I'M WONDERING, YOU KNOW, THINKING BACK TO THE CONFERENCE MEETING FACILITY PROPOSED CHANGE THE ONE SPACE FOR 50 SQUARE FEET, I'M WONDERING IF THERE'S SOME WAY WE COULD MODIFY THAT.
YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T REALLY HAVE GREAT SOLUTIONS AT THIS TIME, BUT I SHARE THE SAME CONCERN THAT COLLIE HAS.
I WONDER IF WE CAN CHANGE IT TO, UNLESS LOCATED WITHIN A QUARTER MILE OF A TRANSIT STOP OR SOMETHING THAT WOULD ALLOW REDUCING THAT IF IT WAS CLOSE TO SOME SORT OF PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, WHICH MAY EITHER ENCOURAGE THEM TO CREATE THAT, OR AT LEAST BE, YOU KNOW, BE, BE NEAR SOME SORT OF FACILITY LIKE THAT.
WE COULD INCENTIVIZE NOT JUST TRANSIT, BUT OTHER MODES OF, RIGHT.
UM, WHAT ABOUT QUESTIONS? I KNOW WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT THESE, AND THIS IS JUST A, YOU KNOW, A DUMMY QUESTION, BUT THROUGH MY BUILDING PROCESS,
LIKE, YOU KNOW, I HATE HOW DARK OUR ROOFS ARE IN THE HEAT ISLAND EFFECT.
IT CREATES A HEAT ISLAND EFFECT.
BUT THAT'S JUST A, YOU KNOW, A SIMPLE EXAMPLE.
BUT IF WE HAVE COMMENTS ABOUT OTHER THINGS THAT AREN'T IN THIS DOCUMENT, LIKE, WHO SHOULD WE, YOU CAN GET THEM TO ME.
AND WE DON'T, AS YOU KNOW, WE DON'T REVIEW RESIDENTIAL.
BUT, BUT, BUT YOU HAVE A CONCERN.
BUT ANY CODE CHANGES FOR WHAT WOULD BE REQUIRED WOULD GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS AS WELL.
SO WE, YOU KNOW, CON UM, I'VE ACTUALLY YESTERDAY STARTED MY LIST OF, YOU KNOW, TALKING WITH SOME PUBLIC WORKS EMPLOYEES ABOUT SOME THINGS THAT THEY MIGHT NEED, WANNA UPDATE.
SO WE'RE CONSTANTLY KEEPING RECORDS OF THINGS.
GET IT ON THE LIST AND WE'LL DISCUSS IT.
ENCOURAGE YOU TO FOLLOW UP, SARAH.
AND CAN I JUST ASK YOU A SIMPLE QUESTION TOO? SHORT TERM RENTALS, YOU KNOW, HOW WE HAVE THESE NEW REQUIREMENTS.
IF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, FILE FOR A CITY LICENSE AND T P T LICENSE AND WE HAVE THESE NEW REQUIREMENTS LIKE SEXUAL PREDATOR, COULD WE POTENTIALLY ALSO REQUIRE IF SOMEBODY'S GONNA GET A SHORT TERM RENTAL, UM, LICENSE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO RETROFIT TO LOW FLOW FIXTURES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THAT WOULD REDUCE IMPACTS OF THESE BIG PARTY HOUSES? AND DO WE HAVE ANY LEGAL RIGHTS TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT? LET'S, UH, TO, FOR, IT'S BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THIS, THIS MEETING, THIS AGENDA.
UH, BUT THE SHORT ANSWER IS STATE LAW REQUIRES US TO TREAT THEM THE SAME AS ALL OTHER RESIDENCES.
IF WE PUT SOMETHING IN THERE THAT APPLIED TO ALL RESIDENCES IN THE CITY, THEN IT COULD ALSO AFFECT SHORT TERM RENTALS.
UM, IF THERE ARE NO FURTHER COMMENTS, UH, YEAH.
SORT OF A PROCESS, PROCESS QUESTION.
WE SEEM TO HAVE AT LEAST BROUGHT UP, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF THE CONCERN STILL EXISTS, BUT SOME IDEAS ON SOME CHANGES YES.
AND SO, UH, HAVE WED CAPTURED THEM RATHER TRYING? PARDON? HAVE WE CAPTURED THEM AS WE'VE GONE ALONG, OR NO? WELL, I THINK, I DON'T, THERE HASN'T BEEN ANY CONSENSUS ON ANYTHING.
THAT WAS KIND, GO AHEAD, CHARLOTTE.
NO, I JUST WONDERED, UM, HOW DIFFICULT IT WOULD BE TO DISCUSS EACH OF THOSE YES.
TRY TO MODIFY IT ON THE FLY RIGHT NOW.
SO WE, AND RATHER THAN DOING THAT IN MOTION YEAH.
OR, OR DO IT IN A MOTION, YOU KNOW, UM, JUST WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO APPROACH THAT.
BECAUSE YOU KNOW, THE, THE CREEKS ARE RISING.
[01:50:01]
YEAH.SO, UM, I HAVEN'T HEARD ANY SPECIFIC LANGUAGE EXCEPT THE ONE I PROPOSED MYSELF TO, ANY OF THE REVISIONS.
OH, I'VE HEARD SUGGESTIONS, BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD ANY SPECIFIC LANGUAGE CHANGES.
SO IF ANYONE ON THE COMMISSION NOW WISHES TO PROPOSE THAT, LET'S JUST GO RIGHT DOWN THE, THE LINE HERE AND CAPTURE THAT.
SO THE ONE SPECIFIC THING WAS BROUGHT UP BY VICE CHAIR SINI AND CHANGING THE MORE THAN 50% OF 50% OR MORE.
AND SO, AND THE, UH, CONFERENCE FACILITY, UH, OR THE O H V ONE, ONE TO ONE, THERE WAS DISCUSSION ABOUT REDUCING THAT NUMBER AND, AND EQUIVALENCY, I'LL, I'LL PROPOSE THREE TO ONE IF WE'RE SET ON HAVING A CHANGE OF THIS PARKING CODE.
THREE TO ONE, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? UH, THREE ATVS PER ONE PARKING SPOT.
I, I, I WAS GONNA SUGGEST USING DIFFERENT RATIOS, BUT YEAH.
WHAT DO YOU HAVE THREE QUARTERS OF THE MM-HMM.
ANYONE ELSE? I WAS THINKING OF, UH, ONE FOR EVERY TWO.
AND SO IF WE KEPT IT WITH THE, HOW, WHAT'S WRITTEN UP THERE? ONE SPACE FOR EACH? THAT WOULD BE, UM, TWO AND THEN ONE OR 1.5, TWO AND THREE, RIGHT.
IF YOU DID IT THAT WAY, I THINK THAT IT READS A LITTLE BETTER TO ME.
SO LET ME GET THE LANGUAGE IN FRONT OF ME.
I ALSO HAVE A QUESTION ON THE WAY IT READS.
UM, WHICH IS WHERE IT SAYS OHB RENTED OUT OF THE LOCATION.
SO DOES THAT MEAN OHVS THAT ARE AVAILABLE FOR RENT AT THE LOCATION OR THE ACTUAL NUMBER THAT THEY RENTED OUT THAT DAY? UM, SO THE INTENTION OF THAT WOULD BE THAT, UM, THEY WOULD NEED TO SHOW US HERE'S OUR O HV AREA, HERE'S HOW MANY VEHICLES WE CAN FIT IN THAT AREA.
AND THEN WE'D BASE THE PARKING ON THAT.
BECAUSE LARGER COMPANIES HAVE A LOT OF LOFT SITE RIGHT.
STORED, WELL, THIS DOESN'T SAY THAT THIS SAYS RENTED OUT AND SO, RIGHT.
SO WE CAN CHANGE THAT TOO, IF YOU WOULD HERE.
IF YOU THINK THERE'S A WAY TO SAY THAT BETTER.
YOU THINK IT'S OKAY? OH, YOU THINK STORED AND RENTED OUT OF THE STORE? OH, RENTED OUT MIGHT BE, OH, WE ONLY RENTED IF YOU WANT, IF YOU WANNA BE MORE YEAH.
THAT'S A, AT THAT LOCATION I'M GONNA SUGGEST AVAILABLE FOR RENT.
OTHERWISE THEY MAY HAVE ONE THAT THEY'RE WORKING ON IN THE BACK THAT DOESN'T COUNT.
IT'S NOT BUT THIS IS GONNA CHANGE.
I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND GETTING INTO THE BUSINESS WHETHER OR NOT IT'S AVAILABLE FOR RENT OR NOT.
THEY'LL, THEY'LL SAY THAT ALL THOSE AREN'T AVAILABLE FOR RENT TODAY.
DO WE HAVE CONSENSUS ON THAT? YES.
AND THEN WHAT'S, WHAT NUMBER, WHAT NUMBER DO YOU WANNA MAKE YOUR ARGUMENT GEORGE, FIRST? UH, WELL, UH, UH, I KNOW THAT, THAT THERE'S COULD BE SIX PEOPLE PER VEHICLE, UH MM-HMM.
SO IT'S, UH, SOMETHING IN BETWEEN.
UM, UH, UH, KSB DIDN'T SEEM TO THINK THAT, UH, OR KURT, UH, I'M SORRY.
KURT, UH, THOUGHT THAT IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE ONEROUS ONE-TO-ONE.
SO I THINK HE SHOULD DEFINITELY BE SOMETHING LESS THAN SOMETHING LESS.
I, I, I DON'T THINK THERE ARE A TON OF PEOPLE WHO GO IN THERE WITH MULTIPLE FAMILIES PER VEHICLE AND RENT OUT THREE VEHICLES.
I I THINK IT'S A PRETTY SMALL NUMBER, SO I WOULD, THAT'S WHY I WOULD STICK WITH, UH, 0.75.
WILL, WELL, MINE IS JUST A COMPROMISE BETWEEN WHAT WAS RECOMMENDED AND A AND AN EVEN, UH, LESSER AMOUNT.
YEAH, I, I'M, I LIKE EVEN NUMBERS.
IS THERE ANY 0.5 IS AN EVEN NUMBER.
[01:55:01]
IS TWO.IS THERE ANY POSSIBILITY THAT WE CAN GET A COUNT ON FLEET VERSUS PARKING SPOTS OF CURRENT BEFORE WE GUESS ABOUT SOME OF THIS? WE COULD PULL THIS ITEM OUT.
UM, I GUESS BECAUSE WE, WE ARE, WE ARE GUESSING.
AND MOST OF OUR, MOST OF OUR PARKING CODES ARE ACTUALLY RELATED TO STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN DONE OR OTHER COMMUNITIES WHO HAVE DONE THE RESEARCH ON WHAT A PARKING I AM OKAY.
WITH PULLING THIS AND NOT, UH, NOT MAKING A DECISION ON THAT.
IF WE, I WOULD MAKE THE MOST COMFORTABLE, I SUPPORT THAT.
WE WAIT, IT'S ANOTHER DAY THAT ANOTHER OH H V SALES CENTER COULD COME UP UP WITH GEORGE MYS OUR URGENCY ON THIS ISSUE.
IT CAN BE REVISITED IF WE GOT THE NUMBER OFF, BUT I THINK TAKING SOME ACTION ALONG WITH THESE OTHER ITEMS MAKES SENSE TO ME.
AND STAFF CAN DO ADDITIONAL RESEARCH BETWEEN NOW AND WHEN IT GOES TO CITY COUNCIL FOR YEAH.
NOT EVEN A MOTION, BUT, ALL RIGHTY.
UM, KELLY? UH, I'M, BUT WHATEVER WE'RE GONNA VOTE ON, BECAUSE I, I WOULD LIKE TO NOT, I WOULD LIKE TO PULL IT PER PERSONALLY.
BUT I THINK THAT IT'S GOING, THESE ARE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR COUNCIL, RIGHT.
SO PERHAPS SOME OF THAT RESEARCH CAN BE DONE AND BROUGHT TO COUNCIL MM-HMM.
SO WE'LL MAKE A NOTE THAT, UM, SO IT'LL BE, THE RECOMMENDATION WILL BE ONE SPACE FOR EACH 1.5 OHVS WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT STAFF WILL DO SOME ADDITIONAL RESEARCH BETWEEN NOW AND WHEN IT GOES TO COUNCIL AND PRESENT THAT INFORMATION TO COUNCIL AND THEN CHANGE THAT LANGUAGE, THE STORE DAN RENTED.
AND WE CAN EVEN ADD IN THAT THERE'S, AND ALL COUNCIL WATCHES THIS MEETING, THEY'LL SEE THE RANGE.
COULD STAFF ALSO LOOK INTO OTHER HIGHLY RECREATIONALLY, LIKE IF ANY OTHER COMMUNITY HAS PARKING? NOT ANY OTHER, BUT LIKE, OH, HV.
COMPARED TO IF THEY HAVE A, A PARKING CODE, THEN MAYBE.
ONE PARKING SPOT FOR EVERY 1.50 HV.
IS THAT CORRECT? WELL, WHAT, WHAT I WAS SAYING IS POINT, I THINK WE SHOULD PUT IT IN, WE SHOULD PUT IT IN THAT LANGUAGE.
IT'S EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND.
I I'M JUST SAYING POINT DECISION, WHICH IS REASONABLE.
I, YOU KIND OF WANNA THROW ALL OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE AT THE PROBLEM, BUT I, I FEEL LIKE THAT IT POTENTIALLY, IT'S, IT COULD BE MISGUIDED AND SHOULD BE TREATED VERY DELICATELY AS WE MAKE THE DECISION ON WHETHER CODE IS THE RIGHT HAMMER FOR THIS NAIL.
AND DON'T GET ME WRONG, I, I, THERE ARE A LOT OF BALLS IN THE AIR.
I'M, YOU KNOW, I SEE CRAIG AND THE AUDIENCE FROM KSB.
I, I'M AWARE OF SOME OF THE THINGS GOING ON TO TRY TO MITIGATE THIS, AND IT'S AN UPHILL BATTLE.
I JUST DON'T WANT CODE TO NECESSARILY BE JUST A RANDOM THROW AT A PROBLEM THAT MAYBE DOESN'T MAKE ANY, IT, IT MAKE IT ANY BETTER, BUT DOES MAKE THINGS REALLY WORSE ON ACCIDENT.
SO MY SOLUTION IS POTENTIALLY NOT USING CODE AS THE HAMMER.
ANYONE ELSE ON PAGE SEVEN OR THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE? WELL, THANK YOU.
THAT'S VERY THOUGHT PROVOKING.
I HADN'T THOUGHT OF IT FROM THAT ANGLE.
PAGE EIGHT STARTS WITH ARTICLE FIVE QUESTION.
I'M JUST TRYING TO CATCH UP ON MY OWN NOTES HERE.
UM, MY QUESTION IS ABOUT FIVE 50 D THE REQUIRED OFF STREETE PARKING.
UM, WE'RE PROPOSING ONE SPACE FOR EACH OH V AND ONE SPACE PER 500 SQUARE FEET OF SALES AREA.
SO I'M NOT SURE THAT A ONE-TO-ONE REQUIREMENT SEEMS MAYBE A LITTLE ONEROUS, ALTHOUGH I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT
[02:00:01]
THE INDUSTRY.SO I'M JUST KIND OF ASKING IS THERE SOME BASIS FOR THIS? UM, I THINK WE BASED IT ON THE IDEA THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE PASSENGER VEHICLE RENTALS HAVE VERY LITTLE PARKING WITH THE IDEA THAT YOU COULD PARK IN THE PLACE OF THE VEHICLE YOU WERE RENTING.
AND SO WE WERE KIND OF THINKING IN THE SAME WAY PEOPLE COME IN ONE CAR AND GET IN AN O H B AND TAKE OFF FROM THERE.
UM, I, IF YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT PROPOSAL, UM, IT WAS, YOU KNOW, WE CAN DISCUSS THAT.
UM, I MEAN, I I'M JUST WONDERING IF ONE, 1.5 SPACES ARE NEEDED FOR EVERY, UH, ONE SPACE OF, UH, OF, YOU KNOW, PARKING.
SO ARE YOU SAYING LIKE HALF OHVS? IN OTHER WORDS, SO FOR EVERY THREE OHVS YOU'D HAVE TWO PARKING SPACES? YEAH.
SOME, SOMETHING THAT'S NOT QUITE AS ONEROUS, BUT IT'S JUST A THOUGHT.
UM, SO, SO KIND OF ADDING TO THAT, NOT TO TAKE AWAY FROM YOUR TIME.
THEY'RE NOT PARKED IN PARKING SPACES.
AND THEN ALSO AS PEOPLE PULL UP, THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, NEEDING TO PARK SOMEWHERE, UNLOAD THEIR CAR, LOAD UP THE OHP INTAKE, AND WE'RE NOT SEEING CARS USE THE OH, HB PARKING AREAS.
SO YEAH, THE WAY THAT IT'S CURRENTLY WRITTEN, THEY WOULD, IF THEY HAD, I DON'T KNOW.
I HAVEN'T COUNTED, BUT I DON'T THINK ANYONE HAS 60.
MAYBE THEY DO, BUT YOU, IF YOU HAD 60 IN YOUR OHV AREA, YOU WE'D BE LOOKING FOR 60 PARKING SPACES ON THE PROPERTY.
I THINK THERE ARE MANY WITH OVER 60.
AND, AND I WAS THINKING THAT THAT'S WHAT THIS MEANT ALSO WHAT THE WAY YOU DESCRIBED IT.
AND MAYBE MORE APPROPRIATE MIGHT BE THREE QUARTERS OF A SPOT PER O H V OR I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBER IS, BUT I DON'T EITHER.
BUT IT JUST SEEMS ONE TO ONE SEEMS A LITTLE EXCESSIVE PERHAPS.
UM, AND, AND THEN ANOTHER QUESTION WAS, AND THIS SOMEWHAT GOES TO WHAT, UM, COLLIE WAS TALKING ABOUT ALSO, WHAT WOULD TRIGGER MM-HMM.
SO WE HAVE, AS PART OF THEIR APPLICATION RIGHT NOW, THEY GIVE US A SITE PLAN OF THEIR PROPERTY AND THEY SAY, HERE'S WHERE WE'RE PUTTING OUR OHVS, HERE'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SETBACK REQUIREMENTS FROM PROPERTY LINES AND FROM STREETS.
THERE'S SCREENING REQUIREMENTS.
AND SO WE REVIEW THOSE PLANS, SAY, BASED ON THIS AREA, THAT AREA MEETS ALL OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS.
IF THEY NO LONGER CAN FIT ALL OF THE OHVS, THEY WANT TO RENT IN THAT AREA, AND THEY NEED TO CHANGE THAT SITE PLAN THAT'S APPROVED, THAT WOULD THEN TRIGGER A NEW REVIEW.
THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT YOU WERE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH.
AND SO, UM, BASICALLY IT WOULD DISALLOW GROWTH FOR ANY OF THESE BUSINESSES WITHOUT COMPLIANCE WITH THE, ANY CHANGES TO THE CODE.
UM, WHEREAS, UM, WE CAN GO OUT AND CHECK IF, YOU KNOW, WE DO, IF WE GET A COMPLAINT FROM SOMEBODY, WE CAN GO OUT, WE'LL GET THE REFERENCE SITE PLAN, WE'LL GO OUT TO THE SITE AND CHECK AND SEE IF THEY'RE WITHIN THE AREA THAT THEY'RE, IF THERE HAVE TO BE A COMPLAINT OR CAN THERE JUST BE A REGULAR OBSERVATION? I MEAN, WE GET ENOUGH COMPLAINTS THAT IT AMOUNTS TO A REGULAR OBSERVATION, BUT YEAH.
AND THEN HOW MANY VIOLATIONS? I MEAN, WHAT'S THE PROCESS LIKE? UM, SO WE WENT THROUGH THIS LAST YEAR WITH, I MEAN, A LOT OF THE OHV BUSINESSES HAD EXPANDED.
OH, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD BEEN IN BUSINESS FOR FIVE YEARS AND EXPANDED.
I THINK THERE WAS ONE IN PARTICULAR THAT ON THEIR APPLICATION THEY SAID, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TWO VEHICLES AND NONE OF THEM ARE GONNA BE HERE OVERNIGHT AND
[02:05:01]
UM, YOU KNOW, AND SO WE APPROACHED THEM, WE CONTACTED THEM AND SAID, OKAY, YOU, YOU'RE, YOU'VE GONE BEYOND WHAT WE APPROVED.
HERE ARE THE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS.
WHERE ARE YOU PUTTING THEM? WHERE'S, YOU KNOW, YOUR PARKING GOING? UM, WE'RE MAKING SURE THEY'RE PUTTING IN THE RIGHT WALLS AND LANDSCAPING AND THAT THEY'RE, AND THEN AS PEOPLE TEND TO FORGET THAT THEY'RE GOOD FOR A WHILE, AND THEN WE WILL KIND OF DRIVE BY AND BE LIKE, OKAY, THEY'RE, THEY'RE GETTING A LITTLE OUT OF HAND.
SO HOW MANY REMINDINGS UNTIL IT'S TRIGGERED FOR THEM TO HAVE TO BE CODE COMPLIANT WITH THE NEW REQUIREMENTS.
UM, SO IF THEY GET TO THE POINT WHERE THEY CAN'T GET THEIR, IF THEY CAN'T GO BACK, I MEAN, LIKE THE EXAMPLE I USED WHERE THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, WE WE'RE GONNA HAVE TWO VEHICLES AND NOTHING'S GONNA BE OVERNIGHT.
IT WAS, THEY WERE NOT COMPLIANT WITH THEIR APPROVAL AT THAT POINT, SO THAT HAD TO COME BACK.
WHEREAS IF, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN, YOU KNOW, IF, IF IT'S A, I MEAN BRIAN MAYBE CAN SPEAK TO SOME OF THE CODE ENFORCEMENT PROCESSES, BUT IF THEY CAN GET IT BACK TO WHERE THEY CAN GET IT WHERE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE, WHEREAS IF THEY HAVE YEAH.
GROWN TO WHERE THEY CAN NO LONGER FIT THEIR VEHICLES IN THE AREA THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO MM-HMM.
IF, IF I COULD INTERJECT, I'M SORRY.
WELL, THE BUSINESS HAS AN OPTION TO EITHER COMPLY AT THAT POINT, OR IF THEY WANT TO EXPAND THEIR BUSINESS, THEN THEY HAVE THAT OPTION TO COMPLY WITH THE NEW CODE.
AND THEN THE CODE ENFORCEMENT PORTION OF THAT IS WE NORMALLY WILL GO AND GIVE THEM A NOTICE OF VIOLATION, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS.
UM, AND WE TRY TO WORK WITH THEM.
BUT, UM, THE NEXT STEP BEYOND THE NOTICE WOULD BE A CITATION TO APPEAR MM-HMM.
UM, SO YEAH, THERE'S, THERE'S THREE OPTIONS THAT WE HAVE IN THAT SENSE.
SO IF WE, IF WE WERE TO PASS SOMETHING, UH, LIKE THIS, WHETHER IT BE A, A SMALLER NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES BECAUSE, UM, SOMETIMES THEY DO COME IN A, A, A CARLOAD OF SIX PEOPLE THAN THEY RENT THREE OF THEM.
AND, UM, SO THAT'S JUST ONE CAR.
SO WHETHER WE NEED ONE TO ONE OR ONE TO TWO OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, UH, I THINK IT'S UP FOR DISCUSSION.
WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND, AND MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME LATER ON, WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT, UH, NON-CONFORMING LIGHTING.
AND UNDER THERE, YOU, WE HAVE A PROVISION FOR, UH, BY 2023, THEY ALL HAVE TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE.
HOW COME WE CAN'T HAVE A DATE ON THIS THAT SAYS BY 2030 OR WHATEVER THEY, THEY HAVE TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE.
SO I MEAN THAT COMMISSIONERS THAT BE BEST, UH, DISCUSSED AN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
IF YOU WANNA GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION, WE, WE COULD DISCUSS THAT.
BUT THERE'S, THERE'S A VARIETY OF REASONS AND, UM, UH, AS, AS TO WHY THIS, UM, YOU CAN AND CAN'T WHEN THINGS AREN'T, AREN'T GRANDFATHERED, UH, BASED ON ZONING OR REGULATORY OR POLICE POWERS OF THE CITY AND WHICH CATEGORY THEY FALL UNDER.
SO, AND, AND CASE LAW, AND THEN SOMETIMES JUST WHAT JUDGE YOU GET IN PREFERENCE.
SO, SO A A, A DEADLINE FOR FULL COMPLIANCE IS NOT SOMETHING THAT COULD UNIFORMLY BE APPLIED TO OTHER SECTIONS OF THE CODE, AS WILL HAS AT TIMES YES.
UM, SPECIFICALLY LIGHTINGS ONE WHERE COURTS HAVE APPROVED IT.
AH, UM, UH, AND, UM, BUT FOR, YEAH, FOR BUSINESS PARKING, THEY HAVE NOT IN THE PAST, AND SO IT MAY PERHAPS BE UNENFORCEABLE.
BUT WELL, NOT FOR, UNLESS WE TALK NOT FOR THE LIGHTING IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
THE LIGHTING HAS BEEN UPHELD BY ARIZONA COURTS BEFORE.
SO WE MIGHT RESERVE THAT UNTIL WE'VE GONE THROUGH ALL OF THE POTENTIAL REVISIONS AND SUGGESTION AND COME BACK AND DISCUSS WHETHER THAT'S NECESSARY TO DO YOU COLLIE.
UM, SO I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE REQUIRED PARKING FOR CONFERENCE SLASH MEETING FACILITY.
UM, I, I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT I LOVE CODE.
THIS IS MY FIRST MEETING BACK
[02:10:01]
OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, IT SPECIFICALLY CALLS OUT THAT WE ARE AVOIDING AND MITIGATING THE ADVERSE VISUAL IMPACTS OF LARGE CONCENTRATIONS OF EXPOSED PARKING.AN A A PARKING SPOT IS 18 BY NINE, WHICH IS 169 SQUARE FEET, WHICH MEANS IF YOU HAVE A CONFERENCE AND MEETING FACILITY, YOU NEED TRIPLE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE YOU HAVE INDOORS TO MEET THE PARKING CODE OUTDOORS.
CUZ IF IT'S 50 PER ONE RIGHT? IT'S, SO IT'S 50, IT'S, SO IT'S OF THE MEETING AREA AND SO NONE OF THE WHOLE FACILITY YEAH.
JUST THE MEETING AREA, IT'S STILL TRIP.
AND, AND, AND THAT'S SOMETHING I IN GENERAL FIND OUR PARKING CODE TO BE REALLY, UM, NOT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE GOAL OF OUR COMMUNITY, WHICH IS MORE CURRENT INTENTION WAS STEPS MORE WALKABLE, MORE BIKEABLE BUILDING THESE EXPANSIVE PARKING LOTS, MAKING PARK PARKING REQUIREMENTS MORE STRINGENT.
AND SO THE IDEA THAT ONE PER 50, EVEN IF IT'S JUST THE MEETING AREAS, THAT IS AN INCREDIBLE PARKING LOAD FOR ANY SIGNIFICANT MEETING AREA.
UM, YOU KNOW, SO I TOTALLY GET THAT.
WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE PARKING ALL OVER OUR NEIGHBORHOODS.
WE HAVE HAD ISSUES WITH PARKING IN CERTAIN LOCATIONS.
I'M NOT WRITING OFF THAT PARKING DOESN'T HAVE ITS PLACE, BUT TO MAKE A CHANGE OF THIS KIND THAT COULD POTENTIALLY, AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND IT'S LIKE WE'RE, WE'RE NITPICKING CODE AND WE'RE MAKING IT MORE CLEAR IN ALL OF THOSE THINGS, BUT ONE TO ONE TO 50 S A LOT.
AND A DEVELOPER WHO HAS ENOUGH MONEY WHO SEES, YOU KNOW, A BENEFIT IN A BIG MEETING, YOU KNOW, A DESTINATION PLACE FOR THEIR CONFERENCES OR WHATEVER, WE'LL BUILD IT AND THEN WE WILL HAVE THIS EXPANSIVE PARKING LOT AS THE MAJORITY OF THE USE OF THE LAND THAT WE HAVE VERY LITTLE LEFT OF ALREADY.
AND SO YOU'RE, THIS IS BASICALLY MY PITCH FOR ALL, ALL ALL KIND OF INCREASES IN PARKING IN GENERAL IS, I'M NOT SAYING WE DON'T NEED IT WHEN IT'S APPROPRIATE, BUT I DON'T WANNA BE REACTIONARY AND CREATE THESE LARGE SWATHS OF, THEY'RE NOT HOPEFULLY NOT GONNA BE PAVEMENT NOW.
WE'RE, WE'RE, WE LIKE PERMEABLE SURFACES MM-HMM.
WE DO, BUT THERE'S STILL HUGE SWATHS OF THE ONLY WAY WE THINK ABOUT TRAVEL AS CARS AND WHY AREN'T WE CHANGING OUR PERSPECTIVE OF WHY WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT CARS BECAUSE THAT'S OUR FUTURE IS MICRO TRA TRANSIT AND BIKES AND WALKING AND ALL THESE THINGS.
AND SO I JUST WANT TO BE ATTENTIVE TO, AS WE CHANGE THIS CODE WHERE WE MAYBE AGAIN, UNINTENTIONALLY ARE CREATING LARGE SWATHS OF PARKING LOTS WHEN THERE MAY BE ALTERNATIVES.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING ON THIS PAGE? IF, IF I COULD JUST ADD TO THAT.
UH, ACTUALLY YOUR PARKING CARTILAGE IS PROBABLY TOO LOW.
IT'S, IT'S UNDER, I ROUNDED DOWN YEAH.
BUT I, I'M JUST SAYING YOU NEED ROOM TO BACK UP.
YOU NEED PATHWAYS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
MAC DID THE ACTUAL MATH EARLIER.
CUZ YOU GOTTA HAVE TURNAROUNDS AND UHUH TO COORDINATION.
AND, AND AGAIN, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, UH, THE MORE, UH, SURFACE AREA THAT'S PARKING, I ALWAYS LOOK FROM WATER PERSPECTIVE MORE RUNOFF MM-HMM.
UH, BUT, BUT CARRIE, IS THAT THIS MORE OR LESS A INDU INDUSTRY STANDARD? I MEAN, YOU DIDN'T JUST MAKE THIS UP? NO.
SO AS IT, UM, YOU KNOW, SAYS IN IT'S KIND OF THE NOTES COLUMN, UM, RIGHT NOW CONFERENCE FACILITIES HAVE A LOWER PARKING REQUIREMENT THAN LIKE A RETAIL STORE.
UM, JUST THE WAY IT'S ALL CATEGORIZED.
AND THAT DIDN'T SEEM ADEQUATE.
AND SO WE LOOKED AT OTHER SIMILAR USES AND THAT WE JUST, THE PROPOSAL WAS TO MIRROR WHAT, UM, WE HAD FOR CHURCHES, ESSENTIALLY WITH THE IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY LOOK AT THEIR SANCTUARY, MAXIMUM OCCUPANCY OF THAT BASE, THEIR PARKING AND, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T REALLY COUNT THEIR ANCILLARY USES.
UM, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, A FULL SANCTUARY FOR A CHURCH WOULD REPRESENT THE HIGHEST USE, UM, OCCUPANT LOAD.
UM, AND SO TAKING THE RELIGIOUS ASPECT OUT OF IT, WE THOUGHT THAT A CONFERENCE FACILITY WAS MOST SIMILAR TO THAT USE.
AND, UM, SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE THE PROPOSAL CAME FROM.
UM, BUT YEAH, YOU HAVE OTHER IDEAS WITH THE COMMISSION WANTS TO MAKE A MODIFICATION, WE CAN IS RETAIL ONE PER TWO 50 MM-HMM.
[02:15:01]
WHAT WE CALL IT WHEN, UM, LET'S USE ARABELLA AS AN EXAMPLE MM-HMM.THERE WAS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF CROSS USE MM-HMM.
WHICH THEY WERE ABLE TO SHARED, SHARED PARKING, REDUCE SHARED PARKING, CONY CALCULATIONS MM-HMM.
SO THEY WERE ABLE TO REDUCE THE REQUIRED AMOUNT THAT THEY WERE PROPOSING.
UM, WOULD THAT ALSO, COULD THAT ALSO APPLY HERE? SO IF A CONFERENCE FACILITY WAS ATTACHED TO A HOTEL OR SOMETHING? YEAH, SO A LOT OF, I MEAN, THAT'S TYPICALLY WHERE YOU SEE CONFERENCE FACILITIES AND THEY'LL GO THROUGH AND SAY, OKAY, LIKE OUR GUEST ROOMS, THE CARS FOR THE GUEST ROOMS ARE GONNA BE THERE AT NIGHT.
OUR CONFERENCE USERS ARE GONNA BE THERE IN THE DAY AND THERE'S GONNA BE SHARED PARKING.
AND THEN WE WOULD LOOK AT, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS GIVEN THE DIFFERENT USES, CAN THEY SHARE THE PARKING? YOU KNOW, A HOTEL GUEST IS GONNA BE IN THE SPOT IN THE AT NIGHT AND CONFERENCE IN THE MORNING.
THERE'S ALSO, UM, USING THE CHURCHES AS AN EXAMPLE, CHURCHES TYPICALLY HAVE A VERY HIGH PARKING DEMAND ON A WEEKEND, A SUNDAY MORNING PERHAPS, AND NOT SO MUCH DURING THE DAY.
SO THERE'S LIKE SHARED PARKING POTENTIAL THERE TOO.
AND SO IF A CONFERENCE FACILITY CAME IN AND SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE'RE GONNA HAVE CONFERENCES FRIDAY, SATURDAY, SUNDAY, AND THERE'S A BUSINESS PARK NEXT DOOR THAT'S OPEN MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY, AND WE WON'T START OURS UNTIL THE BUSINESSES ARE CLOSED.
LIKE, THERE'S THOSE POSSIBILITIES AS WELL.
SO THIS WOULD REPRESENT MORE OF A MAXIMUM THAN YEAH.
IT WOULD REPRESENT WHAT THEY WOULD NEED TO SHOW THAT THEY CAN ACCOMMODATE NOT NECESS, YOU KNOW, AND SO IF THEY HAVE, DON'T NECESSARILY BUILD, UM, BUILD, UM, YOU KNOW, IF THEY WANT TO COME IN AND SAY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING, YOU KNOW, HERE'S OUR SH SHUTTLING PLAN, WE'RE PARTNERING WITH THIS HOTEL OR SOMETHING.
THERE'S, UM, BUT A SHARED PARKING AGREEMENT WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR THAT.
WHICH THE PARKING LOT PEOPLE COULD PULL OUT OF IT AT ANY TIME.
AND SO, WELL WITHIN THE AGREEMENT, THE WAY OUR CODE WOULD STR, UM, SAY THAT PARKING AGREEMENTS WOULD NEED TO BE STRUCTURED IN ORDER TO COUNT FOR, TO MEET YOUR PARKING REQUIREMENTS IS THAT IT'S NON REVOCABLE OR THAT THE CITY IS, UM, A PART OF THAT AGREEMENT SO THAT WE BECOME AWARE IF IT BECOMES, IF IT GETS REVOKED OR IF IT CHANGES.
A AGAIN, JUST PUTTING SOMEONE'S BUSINESS POTENTIALLY AT RISK.
I'M GONNA BE, I'M GONNA BE THAT PERSON I THINK TONIGHT.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? PAGE NINE, HEARING NOTHING.
PAGE 10 STARTS WITH SECTION 5.8.
WAIT, ROLL BACK FIVE, 5.5 0.7.
YOU HAVE SOMETHING? I HAVE A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS.
UM, SO I SEE THE, THE, I I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT MANUFACTURED, CAN YOU MOVE YOUR MICROPHONE, SORRY, MANUFACTURED HOMES MM-HMM.
UM, AND, UM, I MEAN THERE'S DIFFERENT KINDS OF MANUFACTURED HOMES, SO I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN HERE BECAUSE, UH, MODULAR HOMES USUALLY COULD MEET THAT.
SO MANUFACTURED HOMES ARE GENERALLY THE ONES THAT MEET HUD STANDARDS, NOT BUILDING CODE STANDARDS.
AND WE ALLOW THOSE IN CERTAIN ZONES.
UM, AND SO I GUESS THE CONCERN, IT'S A CONCERN THAT I HAVE BECAUSE WE'RE IN, IT'S ALMOST LIKE WE'RE INCENTIVIZING MANUFACTURED HOMES AS OPPOSED IF SOMEONE HAS A LOT HERE IN SEDONA, UH, AND WANTS TO BUILD A STICK HOME ON IT, UH, THEN THEY HAVE THE SAME, THESE MASSING REQUIREMENTS, WHICH CONSIDERABLY, UH, INCREASE THE COST, UH, BECAUSE IT BECOMES A CUSTOM HOME.
AND THE, THE RATES THAT THE CONTRACTORS OR SUBCONTRACTORS CHARGED FOR, FOR, UH, ONE OF THOSE HOMES IS LESS THAN, OR IS MORE, EXCUSE ME, THAN IF I WAS TO BUILD IN, UM, ONE OF OUR NEIGHBORING COMMUNITIES.
AND SO, UM, I DON'T UNDERSTAND MASSING THE ONE 5.7 F TWO IS, IS THIS, DOES THIS TAKE CARE OF ALL THE OTHER PROPERTIES THAT, UH, OR WAS EVERYBODY ELSE GONNA REMAIN IN THE SAME MASSING? SO THE MASSING REQUIRING WOULD REMAIN UNCHANGED FOR ALL
[02:20:01]
NON-MANUFACTURER HOMES? UM, YOU KNOW WHAT WE, THE, THIS PROPOSAL WAS IN THERE IS IN THERE BECAUSE WHAT WE HAVE FOUND IS THAT THERE'S JUST NOT THE OPTIONS FOR PEOPLE TO GET, UM, MANUFACTURED HOMES THAT MEET OUR CODE REQUIREMENTS.AND SO, UM, IT'S BEEN PREVENTING THEM FROM BEING IN, SO IT'S, IT'S A LESS EXPENSIVE HOUSING OPTION FOR WHERE THEY'RE ALLOWED.
SO, SO WE WOULDN'T BE INCREASING ANY REQUIREMENTS, BUT WE WOULD BE DECREASING THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE MANUFACTURED HOMES.
SO THIS IS MEANT AS, UM, AN INCENTIVE TO CREATE MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
I DON'T KNOW IF I'D USE THE WORD INCENTIVE, BUT AN ALLOWANCE THAT, UM, IF YOU'RE IN ONE OF THE ZONING DISTRICTS THAT ALLOWS MANUFACTURED HOMES AND, UM, THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING TO PUT ON A LOT, UM, THAT THERE ARE OPTIONS THAT ARE POSSIBLE FOR YOU.
AND SO ARE THOSE THE SMALLER ZONES, LIKE RS 10 OR 12? NO, IT'S RS SIX OR RMH, UM, OH, MOBILE HOME.
SO THEY'RE APP APPROPRIATE NEITHER.
AND IS IT JUST THOSE TWO? JUST THOSE TWO.
AND SO RS SIX WOULD BE A 6,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT.
AN RMH, I THINK THAT'S WOULD BE A DEDICATED MOBILE HOME SUBDIVISION? NO, THERE'S A COUPLE RMH ZONES AROUND TOWN.
UM, MOSTLY KIND OF, UM, THEY'RE MOSTLY LIKE IN THE ANTE AREA, UM, BUT THEY'RE AT LIKE A 10,000 SQUARE FOOT MINIMUM ON SIZE, I BELIEVE.
WELL, DID YOU WANNA COMPLETE? WELL, I JUST KNOW PEOPLE THAT WOULD LIKE TO BUILD, UM, LONG-TERM RENTALS HERE IN SEDONA AND BECAUSE OF THE MASTERING REQUIREMENTS THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE, UM, IT JUST DOESN'T PENCIL OUT.
IT'S AS MUCH AS $300,000 MORE FOR OUR HOUSE THAN TO BUILD AS A RENTAL.
UM, I'M NOT SAYING THAT WE SHOULDN'T HAVE IT, IT JUST SEEMS A LITTLE BIT UNFAIR THAT YOU'RE GONNA, UH, REDUCE THE MASSING REQUIREMENTS ELSEWHERE BECAUSE WHILE THOSE ARE THOSE, I GUESS MOBILE HOMES OR WHATEVER, THERE ARE MODULAR MANUFACTURED HOMES THAT COULD MEET THE MASSING REQUIREMENTS.
I KNOW WE'VE TALKED WITH SHANNON ABOUT MASSING AND HOUSING AND ALL OF THAT AND THAT LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE MENTIONED EARLIER WE WOULD ANTICIPATE, YOU KNOW, WE CAN ADD IT TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE A NOTE OF THAT AND UM, YOU KNOW, IF WE BRING BACK OTHER CHANGES IN THE FUTURE, THAT MAY BE PART OF IT.
UM, BUT THIS IS, YEAH, I MEAN THIS IS WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING TODAY.
UM, BUT WE CAN DEFINITELY MAKE NOTES OR, I MEAN, IF YOU WANNA MAKE CHANGES TO IT, WE WILL LISTEN.
AND I'M SORRY, UH, IF I COULD ADD TO THAT, THAT PART OF IT WAS THE FACT THAT WITH MANUFACTURED HOMES, WE HAVE A VERY SMALL ABILITY TO MEET, IF ANY ABILITY TO MEET OUR MASSING REQUIREMENTS MM-HMM.
AND SO WHAT WE HAVE BEEN FORCED TO DO IS NOW TELL SOMEBODY WHO MAYBE CAN ONLY AFFORD A MANUFACTURED HOME THAT YOU NOW HAVE TO BUILD ANOTHER STRUCTURE NEXT TO IT MM-HMM.
SO NOW WE'RE ALSO ADDING ADDITIONAL COSTS BEYOND THE COST OF THE HOUSE MM-HMM.
SO I THINK THAT WAS A PART OF IT AS WELL.
CAR CART PORT CARPORTS ALLOWED, UM, AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A GARAGE.
N NOT, NOT WHEN A GARAGE IS REQUIRED, WHICH IS OVER 1500 SQUARE FEET.
BUT ONLY BUT UNDER 1500, THEN THE MASSING REQUIREMENT WOULD GO AWAY IF YOU COULD BUILD A CARPORT.
UM, SO UN SO UNDER THIS PROPOSAL, A MANUFACTURED HOME UNDER 1500 SQUARE FOOT WOULD NOT HAVE A MASSING REQUIREMENT.
AND SO THE GARAGE CAN BE THAT SECOND MASS.
AND SO THEY WOULDN'T NEED TO BE ADDING ANOTHER SHED OR SOME KIND OF, BECAUSE YOU'RE ALSO LIMITED IN WHAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY ADD ON TO A MANUFACTURED HOME.
YOU KIND OF HAVE TO INSTALL IT AS CONSTRUCTED.
AND SO AS OPPOSED TO NONE MM-HMM.
ANYTHING ELSE ON THAT PAGE YOU'D LIKE TO DISCUSS?
[02:25:04]
OKAY.LET'S MOVE ON TO 10, WHICH STARTS WITH 5.8 C2 GEORGE.
UM, SEE YOUR HAND UP OUT OF THE CORNER OF MY EYE.
SO, UM, THE, WHICH ONE ARE YOU ON? UH, 5.8
SO THE, UH, RE REGARDING NONCONFORMING LIGHTING, UM, IT ALLOWS, UH, UM, THESE PROPERTIES BE BROUGHT IN COMPLIANCE BY JANUARY 1ST.
BASIS FOR THAT DATE? UM, WE HAD ORIGINALLY THOUGHT OF AN EARLIER DATE, BUT GIVEN THAT OUR STANCE UP UNTIL THIS POINT HAS BEEN THAT THERE IS NON-CONFORMING LIGHTING, UM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE WE'VE HAD THE, UM, LIGHTING CODE, OUR CITY ATTORNEY RECOMMENDED WE GIVE THEM A COUPLE MORE YEARS TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE.
I WAS WONDERING HOW LONG A LAMP LASTED.
MAYBE IT WAS TIED TO THAT, YOU KNOW,
ANYONE ELSE, LYNN, ON THAT SAME ITEM? IF THEY DON'T, UH, COMPLY BY JANUARY 1ST, 2030, IS IS THERE A PENALTY OR A FINE AT, AND IS IT APPROPRIATE TO PERHAPS ARTICULATE THAT HERE OR, UM, WELL, WE WOULD GO THROUGH OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT PROCESS AND AT THAT POINT WHERE THEY WOULD GET A NOTICE OF VIOLATION AND HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE OUT THEIR LIGHT.
AND IF THEY DIDN'T, I GUESS IT COULD GO TO COURT AND THEY COULD BE FINED.
IT'S KIND OF THE ULTIMATE CONCLUSION OF THAT PROCESS.
BUT, UM, WE GENERALLY DON'T DO VIOLATION PROCEDURES IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE ALLOW THE COURTS TO DO THAT.
CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS, BUT ANY VIOLATION OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE IS A CLASS ONE MISDEMEANOR AND A CIVIL OFFENSE AND CAN BE PUNISHED ACCORDINGLY.
SO ANY BUSINESS THAT MAY HAVE CREATED THEIR LIGHTING RIGHT AFTER THE DARK SKY LIGHTING ORDINANCE IN 2001 MM-HMM.
AND SO REALLY THIS APPLIES TO PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING SINCE, OR THEY HAD THEIR LIGHTING SINCE PRE 2001.
AND UM, YOU KNOW, AS MENTIONED, THIS CAME OUT OUT OF CODE ENFORCEMENT AS, YOU KNOW, YOU GET FURTHER ALONG IT, YOU KNOW, IT GETS HARDER TO PROVE A NON-COMPLIANT FIXTURE.
AND SO THEY BET SPENT QUITE A BIT OF TIME TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHEN FIXTURES WERE INSTALLED, AND SO THEY HAD REQUESTED JUST TO KIND OF HAVE A, AFTER THIS DATE, WE'RE NOT GOING BACK AND RESEARCHING AND DECIDING THAT YOUR HOUSE WAS BUILT IN 1995 AND YEAH.
ANYTHING ELSE ON THAT PAGE? OKAY.
EXPLAIN, I MEAN, SPECIFICALLY THE FIRST TWO ITEMS. I MEAN, IT, IT'S TALKING ABOUT LOTS SPLITTING AND SO FORTH.
AND SO, I MEAN, CAN YOU WALK THROUGH THAT A LITTLE BIT? I THINK THE FIRST ONE IS A CLERICAL MISTAKE.
UM, WE DON'T HAVE LOT SIZE MAXIMUMS. WE HAVE LOT SIZE MINIMUMS, BUT THAT SECTION SAID IT HAS TO COMPLY WITH THE MAXIMUM LOT SIZE REQUIREMENT.
SO THAT'S JUST A, THE WRONG WORD WAS USED THERE.
UM, THE, THE SECOND ONE IS WHEN WE'VE HAD, IF YOU COMBINE TWO LOTS WITH DIFFERENT ZONING OR DIFFERENT COMMUNITY PLAN DESIGNATIONS, YOU GET INTO, YOU KNOW, WHAT SETBACKS DO YOU APPLY? WHAT DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS DO YOU APPLY IT, IT GETS, UM, CONFUSING AND IT CAN, IT JUST CREATES KIND OF MORE HEADACHES THAN IT'S MAY MIGHT BE WORTH.
UM, WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE LOTS IN TOWN THAT WE'LL HAVE TO DEAL WITH KIND OF LOT BY LIKE CASE BY CASE OF HOW TO, HOW TO DO THAT.
UM, BUT GOING FORWARD WE DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE
[02:30:01]
TO CONTINUE CREATING THEM WHEN THEY'RE KIND OF A HEADACHE TO DEAL WITH.WELL, WHERE THERE ARE EXISTING LOTS THAT HAVE THE SPLIT ZONING, THIS DOESN'T TOUCH THAT.
ARE YOU SAYING, SO IF SOMEONE CAME IN AND THEY OWN TWO ADJACENT LOTS AND THEY WANTED TO COMBINE THEM, RIGHT.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WOULD THEN LOOK FOR IS DO THEY HAVE THE SAME ZONING? AND IF THEY DON'T, THEY WOULD EITHER NEED TO REZONE ONE OF THEM OR JUST NOT COMBINE THEM.
WHAT ELSE? UH, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT, I MEAN A LOT OF THE OTHER, I MEAN THERE'S A LOT OF CHANGES IN ARTICLE EIGHT THAT ARE THERE BECAUSE WE ADDED A CODE SECTION THE LAST TIME AROUND THAT WE WENT PUT IN THE MIDDLE.
AND SO IT CHANGED THE NUMBERING OH, OKAY.
OF EVERYTHING AFTER IT AND ALL VERY CLERICAL.
BUT THERE WAS LIKE CROSS REFERENCES IN THE CODE THAT DIDN'T GET UPDATED WHEN MM-HMM.
WELL GOOD FOR YOU FOR FINDING MACE,
SO IF WE SAID NO, LOTS CAN COM CAN BE COMBINED WITH DIFFERENT ZONING AND NO, LOTS CAN BE SPLIT WITH DIFFERENT ZONING.
WELL, YOU WOULDN'T, YOU WOULDN'T MAKE ONE.
WELL, OKAY, SO THEN WHAT HAPPENS TO LOTS THAT ARE ALREADY THIS WAY? AND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS WE'LL DEAL WITH IT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
I MEAN, THE MOST RECENT EXAMPLE WAS THE SUNSET LOFTS, UM, CASE WHEREVER.
AND, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER THING IS THAT WHEN YOU LOSE THE LOT LINE, YOU COULD POTENTIALLY LOSE THE LEGAL DEFINITION OF WHERE THAT ZONING BOUNDARY IS.
SO IT CAN BE EVEN HARD TO TELL SPECIFICALLY IF YOU WERE GONNA DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, WHERE DOES THAT SPLIT HAPPEN? AND SO WITH SUNSET LOFTS, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE DOING THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECT AND SO THEY ALREADY HAD A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT THAT WE WORKED INTO THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, HOW WE WERE GONNA ADDRESS THE SPLIT ZONING, AND, AND WE TOOK THAT TO CITY COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL MM-HMM.
CUZ IT, IT'S NOT ANSWERED IN THE CODE.
AND SO THIS WILL JUST PREVENT MORE OF THOSE FROM BE BEING CREATED.
THERE'S ONLY A FEW MORE OUT THERE MM-HMM.
I MEAN, WE, I CAN SEE WHY WE WOULDN'T WANT TO CREATE THEM, BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE.
AND SO WE DID SIGN IN A CATEGORY, DISCUSS IF WE SHOULD HAVE A CODE SECTION THAT TALKS ABOUT HOW TO DEAL WITH THE EXISTING ONES, BUT IN LOOKING, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF EXISTING ONES AND THEY'RE ALL JUST A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT WHERE WE DIDN'T WANT TO APPLY A SINGLE RULE TO ALL OF THEM.
WE DID WANT TO BE ABLE TO KEEP THAT ABILITY TO, UM, LOOK AT THEM ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS, BUT, AND THERE'S NOT SO MANY THAT IT'S GONNA BE A BURDENSOME BURDEN.
WE'LL DO IT AS IT AS THEY COME IN, BUT WE DIDN'T WANNA CREATE MORE OF THAT GOING FORWARD.
ANYBODY ELSE? WHAT PAGE ARE WE ON? SORRY.
WE'RE, UH, WE'RE NOW STARTING WITH ARTICLE NINE ON PAGE 12.
I, I TALKED TO, UH, CARRIE ABOUT THIS, BUT I, UM, I'LL JUST BRING IT UP FOR THE ENTIRE, UH, COMMISSION THAT I DIDN'T THINK, UH, RECREATIONAL FACILITY SHOULD INCLUDE ART GALLERY, ART GALLERY, STUDIOS AND CENTERS.
AND THAT, UM, IT'S JUST DIDN'T STRIKE ME AS COMPATIBLE.
SO I JUST SUGGESTED THAT PERHAPS ART GALLERY STUDIOS AND CENTERS BE PULLED OUT OF THIS AND SEPARATELY, UH, DEFINED IN THE ARTICLE NINE DEFINITIONS.
I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION ON THIS ONE THAT HOPEFULLY WASN'T ASKED WHILE I WAS GONE.
WHAT ARE SIMILAR VEHICLES IN THE DEFINITION? WHERE ARE YOU? CAL? 9.4 POINT C OHV DEFINITIONS.
IT SAYS, UM, WAIT, WE HAVE A CUT.
YEAH, I GOT AHEAD OF MYSELF,
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE A COMMENT ON THIS PAGE OR A SUGGESTION? SO TO ANSWER COLEY'S QUESTION, UM, SIMILAR VEHICLES WOULD BE THE THINGS YOU THINK OF WHEN YOU THINK OF AN O H V.
I MEAN, IT WOULD, WE DIDN'T, I THINK WE JUST DIDN'T WANT TO GO THROUGH AND TRY TO LIST EVERY DIFFERENT TYPE OF VEHICLE.
UM, IS IT LIKE JEEPS OR JEEPS IN THIS LITTLE, OR A JEEP? UM, JEEPS, LIKE A FULL SIZE JEEP WOULD BE AN AUTOMOBILE, LIKE A FULL SIZE CAR LOOKING MORE AT THE SMALLER,
[02:35:02]
UM, VEHICLES.AND SO YOU CAN KIND OF LOOK AT THE TYPICAL SIZES OF THOSE CARS IF WE NEEDED TO CATEGORIZE.
I THINK I MIGHT LOVE A CATEGORY BY SIZE, POTENTIALLY NOT A STICKING POINT, BUT I DON'T, I, IT FEELS VAGUE.
AND, UH, THE STATE'S CURRENTLY LOOKING AT A, A STATE LAW THAT WOULD ALLOW OHVS TO WEIGH LIKE MAYBE 500 POUNDS.
SO THEN YOUR CATEGORY'S GONNA BE REALLY TOUGH.
HOPEFULLY THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN.
ANY OTHER COMMENT? IS THERE, UH, ANY CONSENSUS ON PULLING OUT ART CENTERS FROM THAT DEFINITION? I'D BE HAPPY TO DO THAT.
IS THERE ANY CONSENSUS ON PULLING OUT ART CENTERS, ART GALLERIES, STUDIOS AND CENTERS FROM THAT DEFINITION IN RECREATION? OKAY, SO LET'S MM-HMM.
ANYONE GOING ONCE AND ONTO PAGE 13? IT STARTS AT 3.2 E I ASKED, UH, CALLIE, UH, IF, UM, SHORT-TERM RENTALS NEEDED A TEMPORARY USE PEN PERMIT FOR WEDDINGS.
AND, UM, SHE SAID THAT WITH, WELL, COULD YOU HIGHLIGHT THE NEW LAW? YEAH.
OR MAYBE, AND KURT CAN INTERRUPT ME IF I'M, IF I SAY SOMETHING WRONG, BUT THERE IS A STATE, A NEW STATE LAW THAT STATES THAT IF IT'S AN EVENT THAT THE CITY HAS DETERMINED NEEDS A TEMPORARY USE PERMIT, WE CAN PROHIBIT THEM FROM OCCURRING IN SHORT TERM RENTALS.
AND SO THAT'S WHY WE ADDED A COUPLE THINGS TO THE DEFINITION OF THE TEMPORARY USE PERMITS SO THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, IF SOMEONE DID WANT TO HAVE A WEDDING IN THEIR OWN BACKYARD, THERE WOULD BE A PERMIT THEY WOULD NEED TO GET.
NOW WE'LL TRY, WE'LL COME UP WITH A PROCESS TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE THAT AS STRAIGHTFORWARD AS POSSIBLE, BUT BY ENSURING THAT WE REQUIRE A PERMIT, WE CAN PREVENT THE SHORT TERM RENTALS FROM REALLY BECOMING THESE WEDDING VENUES AND EVENT CENTERS.
SO, UH, PER PER STATE LAW AND CITY ORDINANCE NOW, UH, SPECIAL EVENTS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE HELD AT SHORT TERM RENTALS.
UM, AND SO THIS, THIS JUST FURTHER DEFINES WHAT A SPECIAL EVENT IS.
WHAT, HOW MANY SPECIAL EVENT PERMITS CAN A PROPERTY GET PER YEAR? UH, BARE LIMIT 10, WHICH FOR, AND, AND THAT WOULD BE FOR RESIDENCES IN THE SHORT TERM RENTAL CASE, THEY'RE ALLOWED ZERO SPECIAL EVENTS.
ANYBODY ELSE ON THAT PAGE? WE'RE AT 3.2 POINT, SO THE REST OF THOSE ARE ONES, THEY'RE INCLUDED IN THE REST OF THE DOCUMENT, BUT WE JUST INCLUDED ALL THE OHV STUFF AT THE, AT THE LAST COUPLE PAGES, JUST IF YOU WANT TO SEE EVERYTHING.
SO UNLESS YOU WANNA CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT OHVS, THOSE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALL INCLUDED IN PREVIOUS DISCUSSION.
YOU PUT 'EM ALL IN ONE PLACE AND THEN PAGE 15, CAP IT OFF.
UM, COMMISSIONER HURST, DID YOU WANT TO CALL FOR A, A REQUEST THAT WE CONSIDER GOING INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION TO DISCUSS THE MATTER YOU RAISED EARLIER AROUND, WHAT WAS IT?
AND DO YOU HAVE ANY ADVICE AT THIS POINT, KURT, BEFORE WE MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION? I, I, WE CAN CERTAINLY DISCUSS IT.
I DON'T THINK IT'D TAKE TOO LONG TO EXPLAIN.
I'M, I MEAN, I THINK I MIGHT BE FRIVOLOUS TO DO IT, SO, UH, I'M WILLING TO GO INTO CLOSED SESSION, BUT I, I JUST DON'T WANT TO GO FOR NO REASON AT ALL.
SO WE WON'T CONSIDER DOING THAT.
I HAVE A SUGGESTION THOUGH, MAYBE BEFORE OUR NEXT MEETING, UH, WE COULD HAVE AN EXECUTIVE SESSION THAT WOULD RELATE NOT ONLY TO THE PARKING, BUT TO THESE OTHER INSTANCES, JUST SO WE HAVE A CLEAR, I I CAN PREPARE A MEMO AND SEND IT OUT.
I NEED TO DO THAT FOR CITY COUNCIL
[02:40:01]
AS WELL.THEY'LL HAVE THE SAME QUESTIONS AS, AS P AND Z COMMISSION HERE, SO.
UM, AND, AND EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE CITY'S POLICE POWER AND THE CITY'S ZONING POWER.
AND WHAT GETS GRANDFATHER WHAT DOESN'T.
WILL THAT ACCOMPANY OUR RECOMMENDATION? YEAH, THAT WILL, YES, THAT WILL GO, YES.
SO THEN WE COULD SEE THAT YES.
SOUNDS LIKE, SO, UH, I'M GONNA OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING NOW.
WE HAVE ONE PERSON WHO'S PATIENTLY WAITED SINCE FOUR 30, UH, TO SPEAK.
AND MR. SWANSON, IF YOU'LL COME UP TO THE PODIUM, INTRODUCE YOURSELF, NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE, AND YOU'LL HAVE THREE MINUTES TO SPEAK.
GREG SWANSON, RESIDENT OF SEDONA.
AND IS THAT MIKE ON? IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT.
I CAN SPEAK LOUD ENOUGH FOR EVERYBODY TO HEAR.
SO IT'S JUST NOT GONNA COME AND USE THIS MICROPHONE HERE IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO.
CRAIG, DO YOU MIND MOVING OVER THERE TO THE TABLE? THANK YOU.
YOU STILL ONLY GET THREE MINUTES AND I'M, UH, PRESIDENT OF KEEP SITTING ON A BEAUTIFUL, I JUST WANT TO MAKE A COMMENTS ON ONE, THE DARK SKY COMPLIANCE PORTION OF THIS SECOND.
THE OHV PORTION AND KSB HAS BEEN ONE OF THE CHAMPIONS OF DARK SKY COMPLIANCE FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
WE'RE, UH, WE FIND THE 2030 TIMEFRAME FOR THIS VERY ACCEPTABLE TO GIVE RESIDENTS IN BUSINESSES SUFFICIENT TIME TO MEET THE CODE.
BUT WHAT WE WANT TO POINT OUT IS THE CITY THEN NEEDS TO SUPPLY ASSISTANCE TO BUSINESSES AND RESIDENTS, INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT COMPLIANT FIXTURES ARE, AND POTENTIALLY SOME MONETARY ASSISTANCE, PARTICULARLY FOR THOSE WHO ARE LESS WELL OFF IN THE COMMUNITY.
THE COST OF THIS IS NOT IN THE LIGHTS, THE COST OF IT IS IN THE FIXTURES.
AND FOR A BUSINESS, PUTTING THAT NEW FIXTURE IN THE COST FOR AN ELECTRICIAN CAN EXCEED THE COST FOR THE FIXTURE.
SO IT'S NOT A CHEAP THING TO DO.
KSB STANDS READY TO HELP WITH THAT.
WE'RE CURRENTLY AT THE BEGINNING PROCESS OF, UH, GRANDFATHERED LIGHTING PROCESS.
THAT'S PART OF THE, UH, SUSTAINABLE TOURISM PLAN.
WE'VE RECEIVED A GRANT FROM THE CITY TO ASSIST WITH THAT.
WE'RE FINDING IT A HARD SELL WITH BUSINESSES.
OBVIOUSLY, IF THIS IS REQUIRED, IT'S GONNA BE A MUCH EASIER SELL BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO IT.
THE SOONER THEY DO IT, THE BETTER BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA SEE THE SAVINGS IN NEW L E D FIXTURES AS OPPOSED TO CANES ESSENCE.
WE THINK THIS IS JUST A WONDERFUL IDEA.
THE TIMEFRAME IS VERY GOOD ON OH FEES.
WE DO SUPPORT THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
WE UNDERSTAND THAT NOT ALL OH, FEES ARE RENTED AT THE SAME TIME.
THAT'S A VERY INFREQUENT SITUATION.
SO THAT THE ONE-TO-ONE RATIO OF PARKING TO OH FEE DOESN'T NECESSARILY, DOESN'T SEEM TO US TO BE, UH, THERE, THERE SHOULD BE SOME FLEXIBILITY IN THAT BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THEY'RE NOT ALL RENTED.
UH, TO CO'S POINT ABOUT THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF USING CODE, WE THINK THAT THOSE UNIN UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES ARE LESS SIGNIFICANT THAN ALLOWING MORE RENTAL COMPANIES TO CROP UP IN VERY CRAMPED SPACES.
UH, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, THAT THIS IS ONE OF THE WAYS THAT GIVEN THE STATE OF ARIZONA, THE CITY OF SEDONA CAN HAVE SOME MORE CONTROL OVER THE PROLIFERATION OF OH FEES.
SO IS THE COMMISSION READY TO CHAIR? SORRY, I'M SORRY.
I ALSO GOT A EMAILED PUBLIC COMMENT DURING THE MEETING JUST TO OH, IF, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THAT ONE.
DID THAT COME IN ONLINE OR? YEAH, IT CAME ON THROUGH OUR AT 4 26.
UM, THIS AFTERNOON FROM DAVID TRACY.
UM, TALKING ABOUT THE CHANGES FOR THE, UM, LES
YOU SAID THIS PROPOSED CHANGE WOULD NOT SEEM TO BE APPLICABLE FOR THE OC DISTRICT.
THE NUMBER OF LODGING UNITS IS DOUBLE THE UNDERLYING ZONING.
UM, SO IF A LOT IS SPLIT, SO IS THE ALLOWABLE NUMBER OF WATCHING UNITS, SO THAT'S YEAH.
DOESN'T SEEM END IS PUBLIC COMMENT.
DOESN'T SEEM TO, I CAN ADDRESS
[02:45:01]
THAT IF ONCE THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD IS CLOSED, IF YOU WOULD LIKE.I'M GONNA CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING PORTION OF THIS.
AND, UH, BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION AND IF YOU WANNA, YEAH.
THE OC DISTRICT CURRENTLY ALLOWS MEDIUM DENSITY LODGING, WHICH IS UP TO EIGHT UNITS PER ACRE, WHICH WOULD BE THE MAXIMUM ALLOWED DENSITY IN THE OC DISTRICT THAT IS NOT BEING TOUCHED.
OBVIOUSLY DEPENDENT ON THE PREVIOUS RESIDENTIAL ZONING.
WILL YOU RES BE RESPONDING TO HIM? YEAH, WE CAN, I CAN EMAIL HIM BACK.
SO BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR ANY, UM, ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION OR NOT.
UM, I'M WONDERING, YOU KNOW, THINKING BACK TO THE CONFERENCE MEETING FACILITY PROPOSED CHANGE THE ONE SPACE FOR 50 SQUARE FEET, I'M WONDERING IF THERE'S SOME WAY WE COULD MODIFY THAT.
YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T REALLY HAVE GREAT SOLUTIONS AT THIS TIME, BUT I SHARE THE SAME CONCERN THAT COLLIE HAS.
I WONDER IF WE CAN CHANGE IT TO, UNLESS LOCATED WITHIN A QUARTER MILE OF A TRANSIT STOP OR SOMETHING THAT WOULD ALLOW REDUCING THAT IF IT WAS CLOSE TO SOME SORT OF PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, WHICH MAY EITHER ENCOURAGE THEM TO CREATE THAT, OR AT LEAST BE, YOU KNOW, BE, BE NEAR SOME SORT OF FACILITY LIKE THAT.
NOT JUST TRANSIT, BUT OTHER MODES OF, RIGHT.
UM, WHAT ABOUT QUESTIONS? I KNOW WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT THESE, AND THIS IS JUST A, YOU KNOW, A DUMMY QUESTION, BUT THROUGH MY BUILDING PROCESS,
LIKE, YOU KNOW, I HATE HOW DARK OUR ROOFS ARE IN THE HEAT ISLAND EFFECT.
IT CREATES A HEAT ISLAND EFFECT, BUT THAT'S JUST A, YOU KNOW, A SIMPLE EXAMPLE.
BUT IF WE HAVE COMMENTS ABOUT OTHER THINGS THAT AREN'T IN THIS DOCUMENT MM-HMM.
AND WE DON'T, AS YOU KNOW, WE DON'T REVIEW RESIDENTIAL.
BUT, BUT, BUT YOU HAVE A CONCERN.
BUT ANY CODE CHANGES FOR WHAT WOULD BE REQUIRED WOULD GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS AS WELL.
SO WE, YOU KNOW, WERE CON UM, I ACTUALLY YESTERDAY STARTED MY LIST OF, YOU KNOW, IN TALKING WITH SOME PUBLIC WORKS EMPLOYEES ABOUT SOME THINGS THAT THEY MIGHT NEED, WANNA UPDATE.
SO WE'RE CONSTANTLY KEEPING RECORDS OF THINGS.
GET IT ON THE LIST AND WE'LL DISCUSS IT.
ENCOURAGE YOU TO FOLLOW UP, SARAH.
AND CAN I JUST ASK YOU A SIMPLE QUESTION TOO? SHORT-TERM RENTALS, YOU KNOW, HOW WE HAVE THESE NEW REQUIREMENTS.
IF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, FILE FOR A CITY LICENSE AND T P T LICENSE AND WE HAVE THESE NEW REQUIREMENTS LIKE SEXUAL PREDATOR, COULD WE POTENTIALLY ALSO REQUIRE IF SOMEBODY'S GONNA GET A SHORT-TERM RENTAL, UM, LICENSE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO RETROFIT TO LOW FLOW FIXTURES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THAT WOULD REDUCE IMPACTS OF THESE BIG PARTY HOUSES? AND DO WE HAVE ANY LEGAL RIGHTS TO DO SO LIKE THAT? IT'S, UH, TO, FOR, IT'S BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THIS, THIS MEETING, THIS AGENDA.
UH, BUT THE SHORT ANSWER IS STATE LAW REQUIRES US TO TREAT THEM THE SAME AS ALL OTHER RESIDENCES.
IF WE PUT SOMETHING IN THERE THAT APPLIED TO ALL RESIDENCES IN THE CITY, THEN IT COULD ALSO AFFECT SHORT-TERM RENTALS.
UM, IF THERE ARE NO FURTHER COMMENTS, UH, YEAH, IT'S THOUGHT ABOUT THE PROCESS PROCESS QUESTION.
WE SEEM TO HAVE AT LEAST BROUGHT UP, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF THE CONCERN STILL EXISTS, BUT SOME IDEAS ON SOME CHANGES YES.
AND SO, UH, HAVE WE CAPTURED, CAPTURED THEM? PARDON? HAVE WE CAPTURED 'EM AS WE'VE GONE ALONG, OR NO? WELL, I THINK, I DON'T, THERE HASN'T BEEN ANY CONSENSUS ON ANYTHING, SO.
THAT WAS KINDA, GO AHEAD, CHARLOTTE.
NO, I JUST WONDERED, UM, HOW DIFFICULT IT WOULD BE TO DISCUSS EACH OF THOSE YES.
TRY TO MODIFY IT ON THE FLY RIGHT NOW.
SO WE, RATHER THAN DOING THAT IN A MOTION YEAH.
OR, OR DO IT IN A MOTION, YOU KNOW, UM, JUST WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO APPROACH THAT.
[02:50:01]
CREEKS ARE RISING.UM, I'VE HEARD SUGGESTIONS, BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD ANY SPECIFIC LANGUAGE CHANGES.
SO IF ANYONE ON THE COMMISSION NOW WISHES TO PROPOSE THAT, LET'S JUST GO RIGHT DOWN THE, THE LINE HERE AND CAPTURE THAT.
SO THE ONE SPECIFIC THING WAS BROUGHT UP BY VICE CHAIR HOSSEINI AND CHANGING THE MORE THAN 50% OF 50% OR MORE.
AND SO, AND THE, UH, CONFERENCE FACILITY, UH, OR THE O H V ONE, ONE TO ONE, THERE WAS DISCUSSION ABOUT REDUCING THAT NUMBER AND, AND EQUIVALENCY, I'LL, I'LL PROPOSE THREE TO ONE IF WE'RE SET ON HAVING A CHANGE OF THIS PARKING CODE.
THREE TO ONE, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? UH, THREE ATVS PER ONE PARKING SPOT.
I, I, I WAS GONNA SUGGEST USING DIFFERENT RATIOS, BUT YEAH.
WHAT DO YOU HAVE THREE QUARTERS OF A MM-HMM.
ANYONE ELSE? I WAS THINKING OF, UH, ONE FOR EVERY TWO.
AND SO IF WE KEPT IT WITH THE HOW, WHAT, WHAT'S WRITTEN UP THERE? ONE SPACE FOR EACH? THAT WOULD BE, UM, TWO AND THEN ONE OR 1.5, TWO AND THREE, RIGHT.
IF YOU DID IT THAT WAY, I THINK THAT IT READS A LITTLE BETTER TO ME.
SO LET ME GET THE LANGUAGE IN FRONT OF ME.
I ALSO HAVE A QUESTION ON THE WAY IT READS.
UM, ON WHAT, WHICH IS WHERE IT SAYS OHB RENTED OUT OF THE LOCATION.
SO IT'S, DOES THAT MEAN OHVS THAT ARE AVAILABLE FOR RENTED THE LOCATION OR THE ACTUAL NUMBER THAT THEY RENTED OUT THAT DAY? UM, SO THE INTENTION OF THAT WOULD BE THAT, UM, THEY WOULD NEED TO SHOW US HERE'S OUR OHB AREA, HERE'S HOW MANY VEHICLES WE CAN FIT IN THAT AREA.
AND THEN WE'D BASE THE PARKING ON THAT.
BECAUSE LARGER COMPANIES HAVE A LOT OF OFFSITE RIGHT.
WELL, THIS DOESN'T SAY THAT THIS SAYS RENTED OUT AND SO, RIGHT.
SO WE CAN CHANGE THAT TOO, IF YOU WOULD HERE.
IF YOU THINK THERE'S A WAY TO SAY THAT BETTER.
I STORED NO, I FEES, I THINK IT'S STORED.
YOU THINK IT'S OKAY? OH, YOU THINK STORED AND RENTED OUT OF THE STORE? OH, RENTED OUT MIGHT BE, OH, WE ONLY RENTED IF YOU WANT, IF YOU WANNA BE MORE YEAH.
YEAH, THAT'S A, AT THAT LOCATION I'M GONNA SUGGEST AVAILABLE FOR RENT.
OTHERWISE THEY MAY HAVE ONE THAT THEY'RE WORKING ON IN THE BACK THAT DOESN'T COUNT.
IT'S NOT, THIS IS GONNA CHANGE.
I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND GETTING INTO THE BUSINESS WHETHER OR NOT IT'S AVAILABLE FOR RENT OR NOT.
THEY'LL, THEY'LL SAY THAT ALL THOSE AREN'T AVAILABLE FOR RENT TODAY.
DO WE HAVE CONSENSUS ON THAT? YES.
AND THEN WHAT'S, WHAT NUMBER, WHAT NUMBER DO YOU WANNA MAKE YOUR ARGUMENT GEORGE, FIRST? UH, WELL, UH, UH, I KNOW THAT, THAT THERE'S COULD BE SIX PEOPLE PER VEHICLE, UH MM-HMM.
SO IT'S, UH, SOMETHING IN BETWEEN.
UM, UH, UH, KSB DIDN'T SEEM TO THINK THAT, UH, OR KURT, UH, I'M SORRY.
KURT, UH, THOUGHT THAT IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE ONEROUS ONE-TO-ONE.
SO I THINK HE SHOULD DEFINITELY BE SOMETHING LESS THAN, SOMETHING LESS.
I, I, I DON'T THINK THERE ARE A TON OF PEOPLE WHO GO IN THERE WITH MULTIPLE FAMILIES PER VEHICLE AND RENT OUT THREE VEHICLES.
I, I THINK IT'S A PRETTY SMALL NUMBER, SO I WOULD, THAT'S WHY I WOULD STICK WITH, UH, 0.75.
WILL, WELL, MINE IS JUST A COMPROMISE BETWEEN WHAT WAS RECOMMENDED AND A AND AN EVEN, UH, LESSER AMOUNT.
YEAH, I, I'M, I LIKE EVEN NUMBERS.
IS THERE ANY 0.5 IS AN EVEN NUMBER
[02:55:01]
IS THERE ANY POSSIBILITY THAT WE CAN GET A COUNT ON FLEET VERSUS PARKING SPOTS OF CURRENT BEFORE WE GUESS ABOUT SOME OF THIS? WE COULD PULL THIS ITEM OUT.
UM, I GUESS BECAUSE WE, WE ARE, WE ARE GUESSING, YEAH.
WE'RE, AND MOST OF OUR, MOST OF OUR PARKING CODES ARE ACTUALLY RELATED TO STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN DONE OR OTHER COMMUNITIES WHO HAVE DONE THE RESEARCH ON WHAT A PARKING IS.
I AM OKAY WITH PULLING THIS AND NOT, UH, NOT MAKING A DECISION ON THAT.
IF WE CAN, I WOULD MAKE THE MOST COMFORTABLE, I SUPPORT THAT.
BRING IT BACK EVERY DAY WE WAIT, IT'S ANOTHER DAY THAT ANOTHER OH V SALES CENTER COULD COME UP UP.
GEORGE, MY, THAT'S OUR URGENCY ON THIS ISSUE.
IT CAN BE REVISITED IF WE GOT THE NUMBER OFF, BUT I THINK TAKING SOME ACTION ALONG WITH THESE OTHER ITEMS MAKES SENSE TO ME AND STAFF CAN DO ADDITIONAL RESEARCH BETWEEN NOW AND WHEN IT GOES TO CITY COUNCIL FOR YEAH.
UM, KELLY? UH, I'M, BUT WHATEVER WE'RE GONNA VOTE ON BECAUSE I, I WOULD LIKE TO NOT, I WOULD LIKE TO PULL IT PER PERSONALLY.
BUT I THINK THAT IT'S GOING, THESE ARE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR COUNCIL, RIGHT.
SO PERHAPS SOME OF THAT RESEARCH CAN BE DONE AND BROUGHT TO COUNCIL.
SO WE'LL MAKE A NOTE THAT, UM, SO IT'LL BE, THE RECOMMENDATION WILL BE ONE SPACE FOR EACH 1.5 OHVS WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT STAFF WILL DO SOME ADDITIONAL RESEARCH BETWEEN NOW AND WHEN IT GOES TO COUNCIL AND PRESENT THAT INFORMATION TO COUNCIL AND THEN CHANGE THAT LANGUAGE, THE STORE DAN RENTED.
AND WE CAN EVEN ADD IN INTO, THERES, AND ALL COUNCIL WATCHES THIS MEETING, THEY'LL SEE THE RANGE.
WHAT 0.5 FOR EACH? NO, 0.75 TIMES TWO IS 1.5.
COULD STAFF ALSO LOOK INTO OTHER HIGHLY RECREATIONALLY, LIKE IF ANY OTHER COMMUNITY HAS PARKING? NOT ANY OTHER, BUT LIKE OHV.
SO MOABS THE CITY, WE, WE, YEAH.
IF PREPARED TO, IF THEY HAVE A, A PARKING CODE, THEN MAYBE.
ONE PARKING SPOT FOR EVERY 1.50 HV.
IS THAT CORRECT? WELL, WHAT, WHAT I WAS SAYING SAYING IS POINT, I THINK WE SHOULD PUT IT IN, WE SHOULD PUT IT IN THAT LANGUAGE.
IT'S EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND.
I THINK I I'M JUST SAYING 0.1, 0.75 SPACE FOR WHICH EQUATES TO ONE SPACE FOR EVERY ONE AND A HALF OHB.
THAT'S EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND, I THINK.
AND THAT'S HOW THE REST OF THE CODE IS WRITTEN.
I'M JUST SAYING CHECK THE MATH.
UM, ANY OTHER CHANGES? LANGUAGE? I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THE KITCHENS.
WHAT SECTION IS THAT? UH, UH, 3.4 C.
I, WITH ALL RESPECT TO, UM, SHANNON AND THE CONCERNS ABOUT GETTING PEOPLE OFF THE STREET, UM, I THINK THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A SQUARE FOOTAGE FOR A TRANSITORY PURPOSE, LIKE A SHORT TERM RENTAL VERSUS A SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO USE AS A STANDARD FOR, UM, LONG-TERM RENTAL.
AND I WOULD JUST FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE IF WE WOULD PUT A, A THRESHOLD AMOUNT IN THERE, UM, MAXIMUM OF ONE ACCESSORY BUILDING.
MAYBE USE AS A MAXIMUM OF ONE ACCESSORY BUILDING EXCEEDING 400 SQUARE FEET, FOR EXAMPLE.
UH, MAY BE USED AS A HABITABLE MAY, UH, INCLUDE A KITCHEN SO THAT IF IT'S BELOW A CERTAIN SQUARE FOOTAGE, IT HAS TO STAY AS A KITCHEN ED.
MAN, I COULDN'T DISAGREE MORE.
THAT'S WHAT'S GREAT ABOUT THIS.
BUT I THINK, YEAH, I THINK WE NEED AS MUCH, I, I FULLY SUPPORT EXACTLY WHAT COLLEAGUES SAID ABOUT, YOU KNOW, BEING ABLE TO SUPPORT AS MUCH HOUSING AS WE POSSIBLY CAN AND PEOPLE DON'T RENT LONG TERM.
IF THERE'S NO KITCHEN, I WOULDN'T DO IT.
AND PEOPLE EFFECTIVELY LIVE IN TINY HOMES AND SPACES NOW.
AND, YOU KNOW, I'VE LOOKED AT A LOT OF THOSE PLANS ONLINE MYSELF PERSONALLY, FOR TINY HOMES
[03:00:01]
AND, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN BE REALLY EFFECTIVELY DONE FOR SMALL FOOTPRINTS.UM, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD PUT A MINIMUM REQUIREMENT ON THAT.
I JUST, I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY I FULLY AGREE WITH CALI.
WELL, I MEAN, WHAT, WHAT IS THE LOWEST THRESHOLD FOR A LONG TERM UNIT? IS IT 75 FEET? RIGHT? IS IT A HUNDRED FEET? IS IT 300 FEET? I MEAN, YOU KNOW, ARE, ARE WE GOING TO SET UP THE SITUATION WHERE, I MEAN, THAT'S NOT A SMART BUILD, RIGHT? SOMEONE'S NOT GONNA WASTE THEIR MONEY ON A THING THAT'S NOT A SMART BUILD.
AND, AND THERE'S BUILDING CODE, BUILDING CODE DOES DICTATE A LOT OF WHAT YOU CAN DO IN REGARDS TO SPACE.
I SPEECH STEVE IS THE MAN TO ACTUALLY TALK ABOUT BUILDING CODE, BUT THE, THERE HAS TO BE SAFE.
AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE I B C AND IT'S NOT OUR DECISION TO DICTATE WHO WILL BE WILLING TO LIVE IN SMALL SPACES.
UM, I, I HAVE MANY A FRIEND WHO, WHO WOULD CHOOSE TO LIVE IN A TINY HOME WHEN I WAS LOOKING FOR A HOUSE, I WANTED A HOUSE UNDER 1800 SQUARE FEET AND I COULD NOT FIND ONE IN OUR COMMUNITY.
LIKE, I LITERALLY COULDN'T FIND ONE THAT WAS FOR SALE.
AND SO THERE, IT'S NOT OUR CHOICE TO SAY, BUT THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE.
1800 VERSUS I, BUT I WOULD LIVE IN A TINY HOME.
AND I'M JUST SAYING, IT'S NOT OUR DECISION TO SAY, WELL, NO ONE WILL WANNA LIVE IN THAT BECAUSE IT'S BLANK.
BECAUSE THAT'S, IT'S JUST NOT OUR DECISION.
IT'S A JUST ARTIS BEEN ON A LIFESTYLE.
AND, AND OUR DECISION IS, IS IT SAFE AND IS IT FOR THE BEST FOR OUR COMMUNITY? AND I THINK THAT I'M SO SURPRISED THAT I, I LOVE THAT WE DISAGREE BECAUSE I FIND IT SO INTERESTING,
AND THAT, THAT RUBS ME WELL, ALL SORTS OF WAYS.
BUT WE DON'T ALLOW TINY HOUSES.
RIGHT? WE DO, WE HAVE, THERE'S ONE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD AND IT'S PERMITTED IN LEGAL, IT'S AT SIT DOWN A CHARTER SCHOOL.
UM, SO I, I THINK THERE'S A MISCONCEPTION.
I KNOW THERE'S A MISCONCEPTION IN THE PUBLIC AND WHAT A TINY HOUSE IS.
SO WE PERMIT HOUSES THAT ARE BUILT PER THE INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE, AND WE ALSO PERMIT HOUSES THAT ARE BUILT UNDER THE, UH, FEDERAL HUD GUIDELINES.
TINY HOUSES ON WHEELS ARE ACTUALLY RVS.
SO, UM, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TINY HOMES.
WE CURRENTLY DO NOT HAVE AN ALLOWANCE FOR THOSE WITHIN ANYWHERE, BUT SOMETHING ZONED FOR RV.
UM, SO I JUST WANNA MAKE THAT THAT CLEAR.
THE HOUSE AT THE CHARTER MOBILE HOME.
THEY'RE THE SAME AS A MOBILE HOME.
SO A MOBILE HOME ZONE WOULD ALSO BE APPROPRIATE.
UM, WE HAVE MOBILE HOME SLASH RVS.
AND WE HAVE THE MODULAR OR FACTORY BUILT HOMES THAT ARE NOT, UM, UH, HUD MANUFACTURED.
SO THOSE WOULD BE BUILT UNDER THE IRC STANDARDS AS WELL.
UM, AND THEN WE HAVE TINY HOMES THAT COULD BE STICK BUILT OR COULD BE BOUGHT MM-HMM.
WE HAVE ALSO ADOPTED APPENDIX Q OF THE IRC AND APPENDIX Q HAS ADDITIONAL ALLOWANCES FOR TINY HOMES, WHICH BY DEFINITION ARE 400 SQUARE FEET OR LESS.
HAVING LIVED IN RANCHO SEDONA FOR 14 MONTHS WITH, UH, AN AIRSTREAM AT 240 FEET, UH, WITH A MICROWAVE, UH, OVEN, UH, STOVE.
UH, THE WORKS, ACTUALLY IT WAS QUITE NICE, UM, THE TWO OF US.
UH, IT, IT CAN BE TASTEFULLY DONE.
UH, YOU HAVE TO WANNA LIVE THAT LIFE.
UM, BUT IT CERTAINLY IS, UM, MUCH BETTER THAN BEING ON THE STREET.
I'D JUST LIKE TO RESTATE THIS, THAT WHAT WE'RE SAYING HERE IS THAT PEOPLE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PUT THAT OVEN IN AND RENT IT LONG TERM.
IF WE BEAR DOWN ON IT AND SAY WE DON'T WANT TO, THEN WE ARE SAYING YOU ARE, YOU CAN ONLY USE THIS FOR SHORT TERM RENTAL OR GUEST RENTAL.
SO I'D LIKE TO SEE THE FLEXIBILITY FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE THAT SORT OF A STRUCTURE TO CHOOSE TO, TO RENT IT LONG TERM IF THEY, IF THEY WANT TO.
[03:05:01]
MM-HMM.UM, I THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS MY OPINION TONIGHT.
SO THANK YOU FOR MY FIRST NIGHT BACK.
ARE WE VOTING ON THIS? NO, I MEAN, CAN WE VOTE? WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF WE DON'T RUSH THE VOTE FOR ME.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE ANY, ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON, ON THIS AGENDA ITEM.
DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER LANGUAGE CHANGES? SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, THE ONLY LANGUAGE CHANGE CHANGES THAT I HAVE ARE CHANGE THE MORE THAN 50% TO 50% OR MORE.
SO WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE IF IT IS WITHIN A QUARTER MILE? IS THERE A DIFFERENT STANDARD? I MEAN, YOU JUST CAN'T LEAVE IT OPEN-ENDED.
I MEAN, THAT'S WHY I WAS LOOKING FOR SUGGESTIONS.
I'M TRYING TO DE YOU KNOW, DETER WHAT COLLIE WAS TALKING ABOUT, THESE BIG SWATHS OF PARKING LOTS.
AND SO THE HOPE IS IF THEY'RE WITHIN A TRANSIT STATION WHERE THEY COULD TAKE A BUS TO IT OR COME FROM A HOTEL OR SHUTTLE OR ANYTHING, THEN PERHAPS THERE DOESN'T NEED TO BE A PARKING REQUIREMENT.
UM, IT WAS JUST A SUGE, I, I'M LOOKING FOR HELP ON THIS TO MANIPULATE IT BETTER, BUT MM-HMM.
BUT I MEAN, IF YOU, IF YOU HAVE A TRANSIT STEP, IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T SHARED THEN PUT THE SHARED RULE IN.
THE SHARED PARKING, UH, APPLIES TO ANY, BUT IT, BUT IF IT'S, IF THIS IS REALLY WRITTEN FOR STAND, I DON'T THINK IT'S EITHER FACILITY, ISN'T IT, CARRIE? YEAH.
THIS IS NOT WRITTEN FOR A CONFERENCE CENTER ASSOCIATED WITH THE LODGING, WHICH IS PROBABLY A MORE, UM, YEAH.
I MEAN MORE LIKELY TO HAPPEN YEAH.
THAN A STANDALONE CONFERENCE CENTER.
AND SHARED PARKING WOULDN'T BE AN OPTION WITH A STANDALONE UNLESS THEY HAPPEN TO BE IMMEDIATELY LOCATED NEAR A SHARED PARKING LOT WITHIN 500 FEET.
WE COULD ALSO JUST MAKE IT LESS STRINGENT, NOT ONE PER 50.
DID WE HAVE ANY PLACES THAT ARE GIVING US A PROBLEM WITH ONE PER WHATEVER WE, YOU JUST SAID, BECAUSE MY BRAIN TURNED OFF.
WE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY STANDALONE CONFERENCE FACILITIES RIGHT NOW.
IT WAS JUST THAT AS WE'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE, THERE SEEMED TO BE AN IDEA THAT MAYBE THAT WASN'T THE CORRECT, THE ONE FOR 300 WASN'T THE CORRECT NUMBER.
AND SO KIND OF, THIS WAS NOT NECESSARILY IN RESPONSE TO ANY CERTAIN SITUATION.
IT WAS JUST KIND OF A PREEMPTIVE, IS THIS, IF WE START GETTING PROPOSALS IN, IS THIS THE CORRECT NUMBER THAT WE SHOULD BE USING? WELL, MY GUESS IS THEY'RE GONNA BE OVER 5,000 SQUARE FEET AND THEY'LL HAVE TO COME HERE.
SO WHERE DO WE LEAVE THIS ONE?
I MEAN, I HATE TO VOTE AGAINST THE WHOLE PACKAGE BECAUSE OF ONE PART THAT I DON'T LIKE.
BUT IF IT GETS TO TWO PARTS THAT I DON'T LIKE, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
I, I, I DON'T WANT TO BELABOR THIS TOO MUCH, BUT I ALMOST WONDER IF, WELL, TYPICALLY WE WOULD TAKE THEM AS A WHOLE.
WE WOULD AGREE TO AGREE TO THE LANGUAGE CHANGES THAT WE CAN'T AGREE TO.
UM, WHETHER BY CONSENSUS, WELL BY CONSENSUS, SO THAT THAT WILL BE INCLUDED IN THE MOTION.
UM, I DON'T THINK WE'LL TAKE THEM INDIVIDUALLY.
SO IF IT TURNS OUT THAT ONE MEMBER DOESN'T AGREE WITH THE CONSENSUS, YOU WILL BE IN A POSITION OF HAVING TO VOTE NO.
IF YOU CHOOSE TO ON THE WHOLE, OR, OR CHAIR AND COMMISSIONER CENSUS IS A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNSEL, YOU COULD VOTE YES AND EXPLAIN, UM, YOUR CONCERNS WITH SOME OF THE ONES AS WELL.
AND COUNCIL WILL ABSOLUTELY BE LOOKING AT ABSOLUT, IF YOU WANNA ARTICULATE THOSE.
REGARDING THE KITCHENETTE, YOU KNOW, I'LL KIND OF REMOVE MY OBJECTION.
IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S CONSENSUS AND I'M ALL ABOUT CONSENSUS.
SO, WELL, I'M, I'M IN SUPPORT OF FOSTERING LONG-TERM RENTALS IN GUEST HOUSES, SO I WILL BE SUPPORTING THAT.
I'M IN FAVOR OF SUPPORTING LONG-TERM RENTALS IN GUEST HOUSES.
AND I DO NOT FEEL THAT IT IS AN INDICTMENT OF A LIFESTYLE CHOICE.
[03:10:01]
BUT I DO THINK THAT A THRESHOLD OF SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT WE USE FOR WORKFORCE HOUSING UNITS AND APARTMENTS, THEY HAVE TO BE, AT LEAST A STUDIO HAS TO BE AT LEAST A CERTAIN SQUARE FOOTAGE.I DON'T SEE ANY REASON TO NOT HAVE A THRESHOLD HERE.
DID YOU WANNA PROPOSE A NUMBER FOR THAT? OH, UM, I'D SAY 300 SQUARE FEET.
HOW DOES THAT JIVE WITH, UM, FOR APARTMENT BUILDINGS? YOU KNOW, THE WORKFORCE HOUSING ONES AND THE, I DON'T REMEMBER THOSE.
YEAH, SO WE DON'T HAVE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR HOUSING UNITS.
WE HAVE, UM, APARTMENTS, APARTMENT SQUARE FOOTAGE STUDIOS.
SO THERE'S NOTHING IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
IT ALLOWS UNITS THAT ARE UNDER 500 SQUARE FEET FOR TO COUNT DIFFERENTLY WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT DENSITY.
AND THEN WHEN WE HAVE DONE, UM, LIKE A, LIKE THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THE SUNSET LOSS, AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECT, AS PART OF THAT DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, THERE WERE SOME AGREEMENTS ABOUT HOW LARGE THE UNITS WOULD BE, BUT THERE'S NOTHING.
UM, BUT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, NEGOTIATED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
THERE'S NOTHING IN THE CODE RIGHT NOW THAT HAS A MINIMUM REQUIREMENT FOR, UH, HOUSE SIZE.
AND IT'S JUST, WE GENERALLY, AND SHANNON MIGHT WANNA SAY SOMETHING, UM, BUT I LOST MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT THERE.
FOR EXAMPLE, CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS, THE SUNSET LOFTS, THE MINIMUM SIZE WAS 600 SQUARE FEET.
WE HAVE MUCH, IF WE SEE ANYTHING PROPOSED, MUCH SMALLER IN THAT ANYWAY.
BUT MAY I
SO WE DO REQUIRE MINIMUM SIZES IN ORDER TO RECEIVE AN INCENTIVE, UM, FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT.
AND WHAT IS THAT MINIMUM SIZE? I DON'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
YEAH, I REMEMBER THE DIGGER GUIDELINES.
SO THAT'S NOT THE MINIMUM SIZE ALLOWED FOR AN APARTMENT.
THAT'S ONLY ALLOWED IF YOU'RE RECEIVING CITY FUNDING FOR THE PROJECT.
I'M JUST SEARCHING FOR SOME MM-HMM.
I THINK WE'RE GOING TO GET CONSENSUS ON THIS BECAUSE I DON'T WANT A NUMBER AND I'M NOT SURE THAT SOME OTHER PEOPLE DON'T WANT A NUMBER.
NO, I, SO THEN IT COULD BE CENSUS.
I THINK I'M PROBABLY THE ONLY ONE THAT WANTS A OKAY NUMBER.
SO I WAS WONDERING IF THAT COULD BE SOMETHING RELAYED TO THE COUNCIL.
WELL, THAT THERE WAS, DEPENDING ON HOW COMMISSIONER VOTES, IF THEY VOTE, UH, AGAINST THE MOTION, THEN THAT COMMISSIONER CAN EXPLAIN THE CONCERNS THEY HAVE FOR DOING SO, AND THAT'S AN EFFECTIVE WAY OF CONVEYING INFORMATION.
SO, BUT THERE MAY BE OTHERS THAT DO THE SAME.
THERE YOU HAVE CARDS, PAGE TWO, MINIMUM SIZE, UM, AT LEAST 500 SQUARE FEET FOR A STUDIO.
BUT LIKE SHANNON SAID, THAT'S FOR THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND THE GIGGA GUIDELINES, NOT NECESSARILY FOR, UH, GUEST GUEST HOUSES WHERE WE'RE, WHERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT JUST ADDING A, WANTS TO LIVE IN THAT SEEKING AFFORDABLE HOUSING
ANYTHING ELSE ON LANGUAGE CHANGES? PULLING THE ARTS CENTER OUT? YEAH.
I MEAN, WE DON'T HAVE A DIFFERENT DEFINITION, BUT WE CAN FIND ONE OKAY.
OR YOU CAN COME UP WITH A NEW ONE FOR, RIGHT.
ARE THOSE THE FOUR AREAS? UM, WAS THERE ANYTHING FOR THE CONFERENCE MEETING FACILITY? I DON'T THINK WE HAD IT.
WE DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING DEFINITIVE NOR ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS NOR CONSENSUS, YES.
OTHER THAN, UH, I BELIEVE THAT THE, THERE WAS GONNA BE SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT MASSING REQUIREMENTS IN THE FUTURE THAT, YEAH.
THAT WILL BE DISCUSSING THAT WITH SHANNON AS PART OF A HOUSING AND OVERALL HOUSING DISCUSSION.
SO YEAH, I DO HAVE NOTES ON THINGS THAT, UM, OTHER THINGS YOU'VE DISCUSSED THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY ON THE LIST TONIGHT THAT WE WILL ADD TO OUR LIST TO
[03:15:01]
LOOK AT GOING FORWARD.THE MOTIONS ON, UH, PAGE FIVE OF YOUR PACKET AND IT CAN BE MADE TO INCLUDE, UM, AS AMENDED BY THE COMMISSION IN ALL OF THE AREAS THAT WE'VE JUST OUTLINED.
UM, MOVE TO RECOMMEND CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF CASE NUMBER PC 23 0 0 0 2 LDC REVISIONS CONSISTENT WITH APPROVAL CRITERION SECTION 8.6
WILL ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE? AYE.
AND COMMISSIONER HOSSEINI, WOULD YOU OUTLINE, UM, TELL US THE REASONS FOR YOUR NEGATIVE VOTE? UM, I AGREE WITH ALL OF THE PROPOSED CHANGES, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE, OF MAINTAINING, NO MINIMUM SIZE ON THE, UM, ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS OR THAT WOULD HAVE FULL KITCHENS.
I BELIEVE THERE SHOULD BE A MINIMUM SIZE, AND I WANT TO, UM, URGE COUNCIL TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
AND MY CONCERN IS NOT SO MUCH WITH NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT MIGHT HAVE NEW TECHNIQUES AND NEW METHODS OF DEF OF DEVISING, UH, EFFICIENT LAYOUT, BUT IT'S MORE TO DO WITH, UM, THOSE WHO WANT TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES IN EXISTING STRUCTURES.
WE'LL CLOSE THIS, UM, AGENDA ITEM AND
[7. FUTURE MEETING DATES AND AGENDA ITEMS]
MOVE ON TO NUMBER SEVEN, FUTURE MEETING DATES AND AGENDA ITEMS. AND I JUST WANNA JUST SAY THAT I WILL BE GONE FOR THE MONTH OF APRIL AND CHARLOTTE WILL BE CHAIRING THE MEETINGS.AND ALSO, UM, I WANTED TO ASK IF THE COMMISSION WOULD BE INTERESTED IN IF STAFF COULD PURSUE THIS WHEN WE APPROVED THE, UH, AMBIENTE HOTEL.
I REMEMBER ASKING MR. STEVENSON ON THE SITE, IT WAS A SITE VISIT IF, UM, WE COULD RETURN WHEN IT OPENS TO SEE, UH, THE FACILITY.
SO I'D LIKE TO SEE IF THE COMMISSION'S IN INTERESTED IN DOING SO.
AND THEN WE COULD DIRECT STAFF TO MAKE THOSE ARRANGEMENTS.
DO YOU MIND DOING THAT? YEAH, WE CAN DEFINITELY CONTACT MIKE.
AND HE SAID HE WAS MORE THAN HAPPY.
UM, THEY'RE, HE'S MORE THAN HAPPY TO GIVE TOURS AT LEAST.
UM, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, HE DOES HAVE GUESTS NOW.
UM, SO WE'LL NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT IN TOO INTEREST.
I DIDN'T STAY THERE AS PART OF OUR TOUR
IF YOU, YOU WOULDN'T MIND CALLING, I SPOKE TO MR. STEVENSON YESTERDAY, WHO, I ACTUALLY OFFERED THAT TO CITY STAFF.
AFTER APRIL,
DO YOU SEE MEETINGS GOING FORWARD FOR EACH OF THOSE? UM, NOT FOR THE FIRST ONE.
I THINK THAT APRIL 4TH WOULD, WILL BE CANCELED.
THERE IS THE COMMUNITY FORUM ON APRIL 5TH, UM, IF YOU RIGHT.
UM, WANNA THE COMMUNITY PLAN YES.
THE, THAT CYNTHIA DISCUSSED AND WE'LL, UM, TRY TO SEND, UH, AN EMAIL TO YOU TO REMIND YOU ABOUT THAT AS WELL.
BUT IF YOU WANNA DO SOMETHING CITY RELATED THAT WEEK, I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO GO TO THAT.
UM, AND WE DO HAVE A COUPLE PROJECTS THAT ARE REALLY CLOSE TO HAVING GOTTEN ALL OF THEIR CORRECTIONS ADDRESSED AND WOULD BE, UM, LOOKING TO COME TO YOU.
I'M KIND OF LIKE HOLDING MY BREATH BEFORE I SAY FOR SURE.
AND SO IF YOU'RE KIND OF CURIOUS, UM, YOU CAN LOOK THROUGH SOME OF THE PROJECTS THERE.
UM, YOU DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL YOU GET THE AGENDA.
CAN YOU TELL WHICH ONES WE SHOULD LOOK AT
[03:20:02]
I THINK THERE'S A NUMBER OF THEM.THERE'S THE ALCHEM MISA PROJECT THAT IS LOOKING TO GO IN NEXT TO THE SEDONA WILD RESORT.
UM, THEY ARE A MEATY COFFEE SHOP AND A HOUSING PROJECT.
UM, AND THE JORDAN TOWNHOMES, WHICH IS THE SITE OF THE FORMER JORDAN LOFTS, IS PROPOSING, UM, 20 OR SO TOWNHOUSE UNITS ON THE FRONT PORTION OF THAT PROPERTY.
AND THEN, UM, A NEW CIRCLE K IN FRONT OF THE FIRE DISTRICT, UM, REALLY ON THE WHERE, SO THE NAVAJO LOSS PROJECT AND THEN THE PR PROPERTY BETWEEN THE NAVAJO LOSS PROJECT AND 89 A IS PROPOSED AS A NEW CIRCLE K.
AND I THINK THOSE ARE THE THREE THAT ARE CLOSEST TO COMING TO YOU.
UM, IF I WERE CHAIRING THIS MEETING, I WOULD DEFINITELY WANNA DO A, A SITE VISIT FOR AL CAMISA AND CIRCLE K.
SO WITH THE CONCURRENCE OF THE VICE CHAIR? YES.
WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE DOING THAT.
IF THEY'RE READY FOR PUBLIC HEARING, WE'LL SCHEDULE, UM, SAME VISITS AS WELL, SAME DAY.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON FUTURE MEETINGS FROM THE COMMISSIONERS? UM, I DO HAVE A QUESTION ON THE FIFTH.
IS THAT GONNA BE ONLINE AT ALL? AND IS THERE GONNA BE ANYTHING POSTED? DOES STEVE, DO YOU KNOW, ARE THEY COMMUNITY RECORDING ANYTHING FOR THE COMMUNITY FORUM OR? YEAH, IT'S THE FIRST.
THAT, THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION AND WE CAN FIND THAT OUT FOR YOU.
I WOULD ASSUME THAT, UM, THERE WOULD BE THAT OPPORTUNITY, BUT I WOULD, I'LL FIND THAT OUT FOR YOU.
DID YOU SAY HANUKKAH OR PASSOVER? HMM? DID YOU, WHAT DID YOU SAY THE FIRST TIME? I, I MEANT PASSOVER, RIGHT? I I'M NOT THE JEWISH ONE.
UH, ANY ANYTHING ELSE ON THAT AGENDA ITEM? IF NOT, UH, I'LL ADJOURN THIS MEETING AT, UH, SIX, UH, WHATEVER THAT IS.
ALMOST 50 5:00 PM THANK YOU STAFF AND THANK YOU COMMISSION.
SEE IF WE NEED BOTH TO GET HOME.