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COURSE.[1. CALL TO ORDER/PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE/MOMENT OF SILENCE]
EVERYONE.WELCOME TO OUR MEETING TODAY, SEDONA CITY COUNCIL.
UH, WE'LL CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER, AND PLEASE JOIN ME FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
AND PLEASE SHARE WITH ME A MOMENT OF SILENCE.
MADAM CLERK, CAN YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL? YES.
[3. CONSENT ITEMS - APPROVE]
ITEM THREE.UH, CONSENT ITEMS. UH, WE HAVE, UH, SEVERAL ITEMS HERE.
THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY WHERE THE PUBLIC, THE COUNSEL OR STAFF CAN PULL ANY ITEMS THAT ARE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA.
ARE THERE ANY ITEMS OF INTEREST TO BE PULLED FROM COUNSEL? OKAY.
AND NOTHING FROM HEARING? SEEING NONE.
CAN I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA? SO MOVED.
[5. SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY MAYOR/COUNCILORS/CITY MANAGER]
OF CURRENT EVENTS BY THE MAYOR OF THE COUNCILORS OR THE CITY MANAGER, PETE.UM, REMINDING EVERYBODY THAT, UH, MAY 6TH IS WILDLIFE PREPAREDNESS DAY.
AND, UH, IF YOU WOULD GO TO THE LOOK AT THE SEDONA COMMUNITY EMERGENCY PREP GUIDE THAT'S IN THE POLICE SECTION OF OUR CITY WEBSITE.
OR THE KSB HAS A, KSB HAS A WEBPAGE, UH, UNDER THEIR INITIATIVE SECTION THAT IS CHOCK FULL OF INFORMATION ABOUT WILDFIRE PREPAREDNESS.
YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SHARE? I DO.
IT'S MY REGULAR UPDATE ON PARKS AND REC.
ADULT SOFTBALL REGISTRATION IS NOW OPEN AND THE SEASON WILL TAKE PLACE ON THURSDAY EVENINGS, JUNE THROUGH AUGUST IN POSSE GROUNDS PARK.
THE TEAM REGISTRATION COST HAS BEEN REDUCED TO $250 THIS SEASON, AND TEAMS MAY REGISTER ONLINE@ASEDONAAZ.GOV SLASH PARKS.
WE ALSO HAVE A FREE AGENT LIST FOR ANYONE LOOKING TO PLAY, BUT DO, BUT DO NOT HAVE A TEAM TO PLAY ON.
AND WE ARE HIRING A SOFTBALL UMPIRE, PARKS AND REC HAS ORGANIZED PICKLEBALL, AND THAT'S ON MONDAYS, TUESDAYS, THURSDAYS, FRIDAYS AND SUNDAYS.
THE SPECIFIC TIMES ARE ON OUR WEBSITE.
WE HAVE AN OPEN GYM AT THE WEST SEDONA SCHOOL GYM, AND IT'S OPEN FROM 7:00 PM TO 9:00 PM THURSDAYS AND SUNDAYS WITH BASKETBALL.
AND, UH, TUESDAYS WITH VOLLEYBALL, AND IT'S $2 PER PLAYER.
PRIVATE TENNIS LESSONS ARE ALSO OFFERED MONDAYS AND WEDNESDAYS, ALL AT POSSE GROUNDS PARK.
YPI HOUR IS THURSDAYS 8:00 AM TO 9:00 AM AT THE LOWER SOFTBALL FIELD.
DISC GOLF AND BEGINNER'S EDGE SPORTS TRAINING ARE BOTH UNDERWAY, AND WE HAVE A LOT OF ACTIVITIES FOR OUR RESIDENTS AND VISITORS AT OUR PARKS AND REC.
UH, YOU WANNA SHARE ANYTHING ELSE OR NO? YES.
SO, UH, LAST WEEK THE MAYOR AND I MET WITH, UH, SENATOR, UH, KELLY'S OFFICE, CORAL EVANS AND JAN SOCR TO TALK ABOUT, UH, BOTH OHVS AND PARKING ON CHAPEL ROAD.
WE HAVE BEEN MEETING WITH, UH, CHAPEL ROAD RESIDENTS AND
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THE, UH, DIOCESE ARCHDIOCESE WHO RUNS THE CHAPEL TO TRY AND THE FOREST SERVICE TO TRY AND WORK OUT A SOLUTION ON PARKING.AND WE INCLUDED SENATOR KELLY'S OFFICE TO HELP US SINCE THE LAND IS ON FOREST SERVICE LAND, WHICH IS A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
UH, ANY OTHER UPDATES ON THIS SITE? OKAY.
[6. PUBLIC FORUM]
FORUM.I WANT TO, I THINK YOU, UH, YOU GOT THE GIST OF IT NOW, RIGHT? HOPEFULLY THE LIGHT ON YOUR RIGHT.
UH, MY NAME'S MARK TIMBROOK AND I'M, UH, IN UPTOWN SEDONA.
I'M HERE REALLY TO TALK ABOUT THE, UH, STACK RECOMMENDATION THAT WE GAVE YOU, UH, ABOUT A MONTH AGO.
I'VE GOTTEN SOME CORRESPONDENCE FROM, UH, UH, CITY MANAGER OSBORN.
I WANT TO THANK YOU AND HER FOR YOUR SUPPORT.
AND THE TWO ITEMS THAT ARE PART OF THAT.
ONE IS TO TRY TO GET A, UH, PARKING LOCATION MOVED ONTO FOREST SERVICE LAND, SOUTH OF BACK AND BEYOND, TO TAKE THAT AWAY FROM THE ISSUE AWAY FROM BACK AND BEYOND.
UH, I THINK THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT THING, EVEN THOUGH THE YEARS FOREST SERVICE IS OPPOSED TO THAT, I THINK THAT YOUR CONTINUED EFFORTS AND OTHER EFFORTS MAY ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN.
UH, SECOND THING IS DRY CREEK, UH, TRYING TO ELIMINATE OR AT LEAST CONTROL THE ROADSIDE PARKING.
I THINK THAT WE ALL KNOW THAT THAT'S VERY VALUABLE.
I KNOW THAT THE CITY HAS BEEN WORKING WITH THE FOREST SERVICE AND THE COUNTY TO DO THAT.
WANNA THANK THE CITY MANAGER AND, UH, UH, UH, UH, ANDY DICKEY FOR HIS EFFORTS IN TRYING TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
I THINK THAT THAT IS CRITICAL TO MEETING YOUR VISION OF, UH, UH, VISITATION MANAGEMENT, PEAK VISITATION MANAGEMENT.
SO ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN DO, UH, TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
I KNOW IT'S PART OF THE FOREST SERVICE AND PART OF THE COUNTY, BUT ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN DO AND RESIDENTS OF THIS COMMUNITY CAN DO TO TRY TO CONTROL PARKING IN THAT AREA WILL HELP IMMENSELY.
ONE OTHER COMPONENT OF THAT IS, UH, THERE'S A VOLPE STUDY THAT'S BEING DONE THAT WILL HELP WITH TRANSIT IN THE AREA.
IT MAY ALSO, UH, UH, ALLOW, UH, SOME SUPPORT FOR THE, UH, UH, THE NEW PARKING ARRANGEMENT ON CATHEDRAL.
I ALSO THINK THAT PUTTING IN BIKE TRAILS, UH, BIKE LANES ALONG DRY CREEK ALL THE WAY TO FAKE CANYON WOULD HELP WITH GETTING PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR CARS AND ONTO BIKES IN E-BIKES, WHICH I THINK WOULD BE A HUGE, UH, IMPACT.
AND I, I KNOW, UH, UH, COUNCIL FERMAN WOULD APPRECIATE THAT GETTING PEOPLE ON BIKES IS PROBABLY A GOOD THING.
AND, UH, COUNCIL OF FAULTS AS WELL.
SO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, AND I APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR EFFORTS IN WHAT YOU'RE DOING, AND HOPEFULLY THIS CAN MOVE FORWARD, UH, SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
MARK, BEFORE YOU GO, CAN YOU JUST EXPLAIN THE, THE ACRONYM OF STACK TO, UH, THAT'S, SORRY.
THAT'S THE SEDONA TRANSIT ADVISORY COMMITTEE.
IT'S TRYING TO MOVE TRANSIT FORWARD WITHIN THIS COMMUNITY, WHICH IS VERY VALUABLE.
UH, IS ANYBODY ELSE WISH TO SPEAK DURING THE PUBLIC FORUM? NOW IS THE TIME.
I'LL CLOSE OUT THE PUBLIC FORUM.
PROCLAMATIONS, RECOGNITIONS, AND AWARDS.
[8.a. AB 2943 Discussion/presentation by Doug Copp, Board Chair of Sedona Recycles, and Kathleen Ventura, Board Member and Executive Director of Sedona Recycles, to provide an update to the City Council on their activities, accomplishments, and general service provision to the community]
WE'RE GOING TO, UH, GO ON TO REGULAR BUSINESS AB 29 43 DISCUSSION, UH, PRESENTATION BY DOUG COP, BOARD CHAIR OF SEDONA RECYCLES, AND KATHLEEN VENTURA, BOARD MEMBER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF SEDONA RECYCLES TO, UH, PROVIDE AN UPDATE TO THE CITY COUNCIL ON THEIR ACTIVITIES, ACCOMPLISHMENTS, AND GENERAL SERVICE PROVISION TO THE COMMUNITY.SO, I, I SEE DOUG, OH, THERE, KATHLEEN, YOU SOMEBODY WHO HAD THEIR HEAD BLOCKING YOURS.
SO COME SIT UP HERE AND, OKAY.
UM, SO I, I'M THE, I'M DOUG COP.
I LIVE IN WEST SEDONA, HAVE FOR THE LAST 29 YEARS.
UH, I'D LIKE TO, UH, GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF THE HISTORY AND OF SEDONA CYCLES AND WHAT WE DO.
UM, SEDONA CYCLES WAS STARTED IN, UH, 1989 BY THREE WOMEN, KATE BLEVINS, SANDY MO, AND RAINA GRIFFITH.
UM, FOR A COUPLE YEARS, MATERIAL WAS COLLECTED AT, UH, TWO PLACES, BASHES AND FLICKERS SHACK.
FLICKERS SHACK WAS A SINGLE SCREEN MOVIE THEATER FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO WERE HERE THEN.
UM, IN 1975, WE GOT A, A GRANT FROM THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY TO, UH, BEGIN WORK ON THE, UM, RECYCLE CENTER THAT YOU SEE TODAY RESIDES ON CITY LAND.
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US, UH, USE THAT LAND.UM, WE HAVE A STAFF OF, OF FIVE EMPLOYEES.
PLUS, UH, KATHLEEN IS OUR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR.
PLUS WE USE, UH, THREE TO FOUR, UH, RANCHERS FROM RAINBOW ACRES IN COTTONWOOD, OR, UH, CAMP VERDE.
UH, IT'S A RESIDENTIAL FACILITY FOR DEVELOPMENTALLY DELAYED ADULTS.
THEY COME AND DO, UH, UH, SOME OF THE BOTTLING CANS SORTING FOR US.
UH, OUR MISSION IS TWOFOLD, TO RECYCLE RESOURCES EFFICIENTLY AND TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC ABOUT RECYCLING.
AND WE DO THOSE TWO THINGS EVERY DAY.
UM, WE COLLECT CARDBOARD, CHIPBOARD, CHIPBOARD, THINGS LIKE, UH, CEREAL BOXES AND BEVERAGE BOXES, UH, PAPER OF ALL KINDS, UH, NEWSPAPER, MAGAZINES, OFFICE PAPER, JUNK MAIL, SHREDDED PAPER.
UH, WE COLLECT, UH, METAL CANS, ALUMINUM CANS, STEEL CANS, PLASTICS NUMBER ONE, TWO, AND FIVE ONE ARE YOUR POLYETHYLENE WATER BOTTLES, SODA BOTTLES, TWO OF YOUR HIGH DENSITY POLYETHYLENE, UH, LIKE LAUNDRY, SOAP BOTTLES, THINGS LIKE THAT.
NUMBER FIVES, WE TAKE BOTTLES AND TUBS.
THAT'S THINGS LIKE YOGURT CONTAINERS, UH, THINGS LIKE THAT.
WE ALSO DO MIXED RIGID PLASTIC, WHICH ARE LARGE.
THEY'RE ALSO NUMBER FIVE, BUT THEY'RE LARGE OBJECTS LIKE PATIO FURNITURE, BUCKETS, UH, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
UM, WE COLLECT CLEAR GREEN AND BROWN GLASS.
WE COLLECT BATTERIES, SMALL BATTERIES, HOUSEHOLD BATTERIES, UH, ALKALINE BATTERIES, BUTTON BATTERIES.
WE DON'T DO CAR BATTERIES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
UH, WE DO STYROFOAM, UM, BLOCK STYROFOAM, LIKE WHEN YOU BUY A ELECTRONICS OR SOMETHING, YOU GET BLOCK STYROFOAM.
WE, UH, WE DON'T TAKE FOOD AND BEVERAGE STYROFOAM CONTAINERS, AND WE, UH, COLLECT CLOTHING.
UH, WELL THE BOYS AND GIRLS CLUB HAS, UM, BINS, GREEN BINS THAT ARE DROP OFF SITES WHERE YOU CAN DROP OFF CLOTHING.
UM, WE ALSO, THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE RECYCLE.
WE ALSO PROVIDE ITEMS FOR REUSE.
WE COLLECT EGG CARTONS, UH, STYROFOAM, PEANUTS AND BUBBLE WRAP.
THOSE WE DON'T RECYCLE, BUT WE MAKE THEM AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE WHO, UH, WANT TO SHIP A PACKAGE OR PUT THEIR EGGS FROM THEIR CHICKENS.
THEY KEEP IT THEIR HOUSE SO THEY CAN, THEY CAN COME IN AND REUSE THOSE ITEMS. UM, BASICALLY WE ARE OPEN, UH, 24 HOURS A DAY, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK.
WE HAVE FIVE DROP OFF SITES, UH, IN SEDONA, THE RECYCLE CENTER ON SHELBY DRIVE.
UH, DROP OFF SITE AT THE CULTURAL PARK PLACE OUT AT THE OLD CULTURAL PARK, UH, AT, UH, MOUNTAIN SHADOWS, AT POSSE GROUNDS, AND AT THE UPTOWN, UH, PARKING, UH, LOT.
UM, THE PEOPLE WHO USE OUR, UH, SERVICE, OUR RESIDENTS, TOURISTS, AND ANYBODY WHO COMES TO SEDONA, UM, PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE VERDE VALLEY BUT WORK IN SEDONA CAN BRING THEIR, UH, MATERIALS.
I'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE FROM FLAGSTAFF WHO BRING THINGS LIKE STYROFOAM DOWN TO US, CUZ VERY FEW PLACES IN THE STATE EXCEPT, UH, STYROFOAM.
UM, WE'RE A MULTISTREAM RECYCLING CENTER.
WHAT THAT MEANS IS WE ASK THE PUBLIC TO DO SOME OF THE SORTING FOR US.
UH, RECYCLING IS VERY LABOR INTENSIVE, VERY MACHINE, UH, INTENSIVE.
UH, SO SEPARATING ALL OF THOSE, UH, RECYCLABLES OUT INTO THEIR INDIVIDUAL CATEGORIES IS, IS WHAT TAKES TIME AND COSTS MONEY.
SO BY PROVIDING SEPARATE BINS FOR CARDBOARD PAPER, THE CANS AND BOTTLES, THE GLASS, STYROFOAM, ET CETERA, THE PUBLIC DOES SOME OF THAT RECYCLING OR SORTING.
THEY DON'T DO A PERFECT JOB, BUT THEY, THEY MAKE A BIG STEP IN TOWARDS, UH, GETTING THINGS SEPARATED.
UM, THAT ALLOWS US TO HAVE A VERY HIGH RECOVERY RATE.
WELL, WE RECOVER, WE ESTIMATE ABOUT 98% OF THE RECYCLABLES WE RECEIVE.
UM, THE PROBLEMS IN RECYCLING ARE, ARE CO-MINGLING, WHICH IS WHEN YOU MIX THE RECYCLABLES AND THEN CONTAMINATION WHEN THINGS THAT WE DON'T RECYCLE ARE THROWN IN BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVING ASPIRATIONAL OR WISH RECYCLING, WANTING SOMETHING, RECYCLE.
AND THERE'S ALSO A LITTLE BIT OF, UH, YOU KNOW, UM, ILLEGAL DUMPING.
PEOPLE JUST WANT TO GET RID OF SOMETHING.
AND OUR BINS ARE AVAILABLE 24 HOURS A DAY.
SO WE CAN'T STOP ANYBODY FROM UH, DOING THAT.
UM, LABOR IS OUR BIGGEST EXPENSE.
UM, NOTHING ELSE COMES CLOSE TO THAT.
UM, WE'VE HAD A LITTLE PROBLEM WITH, WITH STAFF TURNOVER.
YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT HIGHLY DESIRABLE WORK.
IT'S OUTDOORS IN THE ELEMENTS YOU DEAL WITH.
YOU KNOW, SOME, SOME THINGS IN, THINK ABOUT WHAT'S IN GARBAGE.
SOMETIMES WE SEE THOSE THINGS SHOW UP AT THE RECYCLE CENTER.
IT'S ALSO, UH, UM, UM, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT TO KEEP ALL THE EQUIPMENT RUNNING.
WE'VE GOT TWO TRUCKS, A BIG FRONT LOADER
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TRUCK, WHICH IS LIKE THE GARBAGE TRUCKS YOU SEE DRIVING AROUND TOWN.THESE SERVICE ARE BIG, UH, NINE YARD BINS THAT ARE AT THE DROP-OFF SITES.
WE HAVE A FLATBED TRUCK THAT, UH, PICKS UP, UH, THE TOTES THAT CONTAIN GLASS AND MIXED MATERIAL AT, UH, SOME OF THE SITES.
WE ALSO PICK UP FROM, YOU KNOW, BUSINESSES IN TOWN WHERE WE HAVE, UH, SERVICE AGREEMENTS WITH.
UM, WE HAVE LOTS OF, UH, CONVEYOR BELTS AND MOTORS AND THINGS THAT MOVE MATERIAL AROUND.
UM, WE HAVE A DENSI FIRE THAT, UH, GRINDS UP AND COMPACTS THE BLOCK STYROFOAM THAT, UH, WE RECYCLE.
AND, UH, WE HAVE A FRONT END LOADER, WHICH, UH, IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S A BIG TRACTOR THAT WE USE FOR GLASS RECYCLING.
THE GLASS IS PUT IN BIG BUNKERS.
UH, KEEPING THE GLASS SEPARATE FROM THE REST OF THE RECYCLES RECYCLABLES IS VERY IMPORTANT.
THAT'S WHY A LOT OF YOUR SINGLE STREAM RECYCLERS DON'T WANT GLASS CUZ IT GETS BROKEN.
IT GETS, YOU KNOW, CONTAMINATES THE PAPER AND THE CARDBOARD AND EVERYTHING ELSE THEY'RE TRYING TO RECYCLE.
SO BY KEEPING GLASS SEPARATE LIKE WE DO IT, UH, ALLOWS US TO HAVE A CLEANER PRODUCT.
AND, UH, AND TO RECYCLE GLASS, WE DON'T HAVE TO TELL PEOPLE NOT TO RECYCLE GLASS.
UM, RECYCLING IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT, IT KEEPS RESOURCES IN THE ECONOMY, UH, RATHER THAN BURYING THEM IN THE LANDFILL, IT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, LESS EXPENSIVE AND LESS OF A CARBON F FOOTPRINT TO, UH, UH, CREATE A NEW PRODUCT FROM, UH, A RECYCLED FEEDSTOCK RATHER THAN FROM VIRGIN FEEDSTOCK OUT IN NATURE.
UM, WE TRY TO, UM, UM, KEEP OUR, YOU KNOW, FOOTPRINT AS, AS CARBON FOOTPRINT, AS LOW AS POSSIBLE.
YOU KNOW, RUNNING AN EFFICIENT TRUCK ROUTE.
UM, TRY TO MARKET OUR MATERIALS, YOU KNOW, AS CLOSE TO HOME AS AS WE CAN.
UM, BUT, UH, WHAT ELSE? LET'S SEE.
MARKETING MATERIALS DIFFICULT.
YOU KNOW, WE, THESE MATERIALS ARE ALL COMMODITIES, OKAY? THEY'RE LIKE OIL OR GOLD OR ANYTHING ELSE.
WE HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL OVER THAT PRICE RIGHT NOW.
UH, DESPITE THE HIGH INFLATION RATE, THE MAT, THE PRICE FOR THE MATERIALS, UH, THAT WE SELL IS, UH, IS ACTUALLY QUITE LOW.
AND, UH, MOST BUSINESSES, YOU, YOU, YOU MAKE MORE MONEY, YOU HAVE A HIGHER NET INCOME.
THAT'S NOT TRUE IN RECYCLING, BECAUSE IN RECYCLING, WHEN YOU, UH, AS YOUR VOLUME GOES UP, YOUR LABOR COST GOES UP, YOUR REPAIR AND MAINTENANCE COSTS GO UP.
SO, UH, THE WAY RECYCLING HAS GETS HIGHER, NET INCOME IS WHEN THE COMMODITY PRICE GOES UP.
YOU KNOW, I'VE SEEN CARDBOARD AS HIGH AS $200 A TON.
SO, UH, YOU KNOW, MATERIAL PRICES IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT TO US.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THAT.
UM, WHAT ELSE? UH, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH WHAT WE DO.
I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS.
UH, I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER IT.
SO FROM WHAT YOU SAID, UM, COULD YOU, IS YOUR BIGGEST CHALLENGE MATERIALS PRICES, IS THAT, I'M ASKING WHAT FOR THE SEDONA RECYCLE CENTER, WHICH SEEMS TO HAVE A LOT OF SUPPORT IN THE COMMUNITY, WHAT IS YOUR BIGGEST CHALLENGE? WELL, CERTAINLY LOW, LOW PRICE, LOW MATERIAL PRICES IS A BIG CHALLENGE.
IT'S PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, LABOR'S OUR BIGGEST COST AND, UH, WE CAN'T, YOU KNOW, CHANGE THAT MUCH AND, UH MM-HMM.
WHEN OUR, OUR INCOME CAN FLUCTUATE DRAMATICALLY BASED ON THE MATERIAL PRICES.
IS IT HIGH NOW OR LOW NOW? THE, WELL, THE MATERIAL PRICES ARE, ARE VERY LOW RIGHT NOW.
AND, UH, WHEN'S THE LAST TIME THEY WERE HIGH? LAST YEAR WASN'T THAT BAD.
BUT I HAVE A SECOND, A SECOND QUESTION.
UM, FOR RESIDENTS WHO MIGHT WANNA BE INVOLVED YES.
IN RECYCLING, UM, DO YOU HAVE VOLUNTEER OPPORTUNITIES? UH, YES WE DO.
UM, WE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HAPPY TO, TO, TO GIVE, I SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED WE GIVE TOURS TO PEOPLE AND THEY CAN COME DOWN.
WE, WE'VE HAD, UH, SCHOOL KIDS COME IN FOR, UH, UH, FOR TOURS, UH, FOR INSURANCE REASONS WE HAVE TO, IT'S, WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT, UH MM-HMM.
YOU COULD GET KILLED THERE IF YOU, UH, YOU KNOW, THE BAYLOR WOULD, COULD CRUSH YOU, KILL YOU.
UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S LOTS OF BROKEN GLASS, THINGS LIKE THAT AROUND.
SO WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL, UH, WITH, UH, WITH VOLUNTEERS.
BUT WE'VE HAD, WE'VE HAD THE COURTS SEND PEOPLE WHO NEED COMMUNITY SERVICE HOURS TO US, YOU KNOW, TO, UH, TO, TO DO, UH, THAT'S GREAT THINGS.
WE GIVE THEM TASKS LIKE SWEEPING OR MAYBE SOME SORTING TO DO.
BUT, UH, SO VOLUNTEERS IS KIND OF A TRICKY QUESTION WHERE WE COULD REALLY USE VOLUNTEERS, BE IN THE EDUCATION SIDE IF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES, YOU KNOW, AT SO RECYCLES
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MANY, MANY TIMES A DAY BECAUSE THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T READ SIGNS AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIX THAT PROBLEM.BUT, UH, THEY ALSO HAVE ASPIRATIONAL GOALS TO RECYCLE.
THEY WANT TO RECYCLE AS MUCH AS THEY CAN.
SO THEY A LOT OF TIMES THROW THINGS IN THERE THAT WE CAN'T RECYCLE, BUT THEY FEEL GOOD BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY THINK THEY'RE GETTING RECYCLED.
SO, YOU KNOW, ED, ED HAVING PEOPLE INTERACT WITH THE PUBLIC AND EDUCATING THEM WOULD, WOULD, SO YOU WOULD, IF, IF PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN, IN VOLUNTEERING AT THE RECYCLE CENTER, THEY, THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES FOR SORT OF HELPING RESIDENTS UNDERSTAND WHAT IS AND ISN'T RECYCLABLE.
BECAUSE FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, PEOPLE WHO PUT SOMETHING IN THERE THAT'S NOT RECYCLABLE, YOU HAVE TO PAY TO HAVE IT HAUL TO THE DUMP.
SO RIGHT NOW WE'RE REALLY EAGER AND EXCITED TO HAVE PEOPLE COME ON AND VOLUNTEER AS LIKE GREETER AS WE COULD CALL THEM, THAT WOULD LIKE BE IN OUR PARKING LOT AT OUR FACILITY ON SHELBY TO LIKE, LITERALLY IN REAL TIME, UM, CONNECT WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE RECYCLING AND NOT IN LIKE A FORMAL EDUCATION WAY, BUT IN JUST LIKE, IN A, IN A WAY TO, TO EXPLAIN LIKE WHAT IS AND IS NOT RECYCLABLE.
BECAUSE LIKE, EXACTLY LIKE YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT IT DRIVES MORE LABOR AND IT'S HARDER ON OUR MACHINERY WHEN THERE'S MORE CONTAMINATION, RIGHT? SO WHEN WE SPEND A LOT OF TIME PULLING THINGS OUT THAT DON'T BELONG, THEN OF COURSE OUR TRASH BILL GOES UP.
IT'S HARDER ON THE MACHINES WHEN THERE'S STUFF THAT DOESN'T BELONG.
AND THEN WE CAN'T GET AS HIGH OF A PRICE FOR OUR, OUR PRODUCT WHEN IT'S CONTAMINATED, FOR EXAMPLE.
SO THAT'S, UM, A REALLY VALUABLE, UH, WAY THAT WE COULD UTILIZE VOLUNTEERS.
I HAVE, I JUST HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION.
YOU SAY YOUR RECOVERY RATE IS 96%, WHICH MEANS THE 98.
UM, ALL OF THE TRASH SERVICES SAY THEY PROVIDE RECYCLING.
WHAT DO THEIR RATES USUALLY RUN? WE CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT.
I, I, I, ALL I CAN TELL YOU IS INDUSTRY STANDARDS.
I'M NOT GONNA COMMENT ON A SPECIFIC, UH, COMPANY THAT SERVES A VERY VALID, BUT, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY THERE'S THREE TYPES.
THERE'S MULTISTREAM, THERE'S SINGLE STREAM, AND THERE'S MIXED WASTE RECYCLING.
SO WE'RE MULTISTREAM, AS FAR AS I KNOW, WE'RE THE, WE'RE, WELL WE ARE THE ONLY MULTISTREAM RECYCLER IN THE VERDE VALLEY, POSSIBLY IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA.
WELL, I MAY, FLAGSTAFF, THEY DO ASK PEOPLE AT NORTON TOO.
SO I GUESS THEY WOULD BE CONSIDERED MULTISTREAM.
BUT YOU KNOW, BACK TO WHAT I SAID EARLIER, THE, THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS, IS SORTING THIS MATERIAL OUT.
SO SINGLE STREAM, YOU WOULD PUT ALL OF YOUR RECYCLABLES IN ONE CONTAINER AND YOUR TRASH IN ANOTHER CONTAINER.
BUT YOU STILL, WHEN YOU MIX BOTTLES, CANS WITH PAPER AND CARDBOARD, THE PAPER AND THE CARDBOARD KIND OF TEND TO HIDE THINGS.
SO IT'S A LOT MORE EFFORT TO, UH, SORT ALL THAT, THOSE BOTTLES AND CANS OUT TO SORT THAT PAPER OUT.
UM, YOU KNOW, GLASS, A LOT OF MOST SINGLE STREAMS DON'T WANT GLASS BECAUSE GLASS BREAKS AND THEN IT CONTAMINATES EVERYTHING.
WE KEEP GLASS SEPARATE, SO IT'S NOT A PROBLEM.
I DON'T KNOW OF ANYBODY IN ARIZONA WHO MAY BE OUTSIDE OF PHOENIX THAT'S, UH, RECYCLING STYROFOAM.
AND THAT'S WHY PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER THE VERDE VALLEY AND EVEN FROM FLIGHT STAFF TO RECYCLE STYROFOAM WITH US NOW.
MIXED WASTE RECYCLING, YOU KNOW, I, I KIND OF HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THEM.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT TRASH AND WHAT'S IN TRASH, UM, THERE'S FOOD, THERE'S ANIMAL FECES, THERE'S DIAPERS, THERE'S PERSONAL HYGIENE PRODUCTS.
NOW, WHEN YOU MIX THAT WITH BOTTLES, CANS, PAPER, CARDBOARD, YOU KNOW, USE YOUR IMAGINATION, WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE RECYCLABLES? SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THE RECOVERY RATE FOR SINGLE STREAM IS, IS, YOU KNOW, INDUSTRY WIDE IS, YOU KNOW, MUCH LOWER THAN WHAT, THAN WHAT WE GET.
AND REMIXED WASTE, IT'S EVEN LOWER.
UM, YEAH, IT'S GREAT THAT YOU HAVE STYROFOAM RECYCLING BECAUSE IT'S SOMEPLACE HE CAN'T FIND IT ANYWHERE.
AND I KNOW YOU HAD FOIL, UM, AND THAT RECENTLY DISCONTINUED.
AND, UM, THINK THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD EXAMPLE IF YOU SAY, IF YOU COULD TELL US WHY THAT DISCONTINUED AND WHAT HAPPENS.
WELL, WE, WE, WE STILL RECYCLE FOIL AND ALUMINUM PIPS AND STUFF.
WHY THEY DECIDED TO GET RID OF THAT? IT WAS LIKE, I THINK IT WAS REALLY CONTAMINATED WITH LIKE FOOD AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
AND IT WAS, IT WAS JUST KIND OF TURNING INTO LIKE A TRASH BIN IS REALLY ALL THAT IT IS.
UM, IT'S NOT THAT WE LIKE FORMALLY STOPPED TAKING IT.
IT WAS JUST WE REMOVED THAT BIN.
IF PEOPLE WALK IN AND THEY ASK US ABOUT IT, WE'RE STILL TAKING IT.
BUT HAVING THAT BIN OUT IN THE PARKING LOT WAS JUST CAUSING SOME CONFUSION.
IS IS WHAT REALLY IT SEEMED TO BE AS IT TURNED INTO ALMOST LIKE A TRASH, BECAUSE LIKE FROM WHEN YOU'RE NOT REALLY PAYING ATTENTION AND YOU JUST SEE LIKE CRUMPLED UP FOIL, I THINK PEOPLE WERE JUST IN THEIR MINDS ACKNOWLEDGING THAT IT WAS TRASH.
SO FOIL CAN STILL BE RECYCLABLE TO BRING IT INSIDE.
THANK YOU FOR CLEARING THAT UP.
WHAT WOULD BE REALLY USEFUL IS A LOT.
ANOTHER PROBLEM IS TIN CAN LIDS, WHEN YOU CUT OPEN THE CAN, THE CAN LID IS SEPARATE FROM THE CAN.
IF, IF PEOPLE WOULD PUT, WHEN AFTER THEY TAKE THE FOOD OUT OF THE, THE CAN, PUT THE LID BACK IN THE CAN AND YOU COULD PUT YOUR ALUMINUM FOIL, YOU KNOW, YOUR CRUMPLE ALUMINUM FOIL IN THERE TOO, AND CRUSH THE CAN THAT KEEPS IT ALL CONTAINED.
THE LITTLE LITTLE PIECES TEND TO END UP ON THE GROUND AND GETTING SWEPT
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UP AS TRASH.SO THE, THE BIGGER PIECES ARE GONNA, YOU KNOW, STAY IN THE, IN THE, THE RECYCLING STREAM.
SO YOU WANT THE FOIL WITH THE CANS.
IF YOU PUT, IF YOU PUT THE FOIL IN THE CAN AND CRUSHED IT SO IT CAN'T COME OUT, THEN YEAH, IT'S DEFINITELY GONNA GET RECYCLED.
AND, UH, ALSO, I, I SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOUR CANS AND BOTTLES ARE EMPTY.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO WASH 'EM, BUT THEY NEED TO BE EMPTY.
AND SOME PEOPLE DON'T DO THAT.
AND YOU KNOW, WHEN SODA POP AND LAUNDRY SOAP AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND KETCHUP AND MUSTARD, YOU KNOW, GO THROUGH OUR BALOR AND GET COMPRESSED.
YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN IMAGINE WHAT HAPPENS.
SO JUST MAKE, YOU KNOW, THE CARDBOARD BOXES IS ANOTHER ISSUE.
A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE DON'T BREAK THEIR BOXES DOWN.
THEY LEAVE THE BUBBLE WRAP THE STYROFOAM, THE PEANUTS IN THE BOX, YOU KNOW.
SO WHEN A BOX IS NOT BROKEN DOWN, IT, UH, IT FILLS UP THE BINS FASTER, THEN OUR TRUCK PICKS IT UP, OUR TRUCK COMPRESSES MATERIAL, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU WANT TO COME BACK WITH A FULL LOAD.
YOU DON'T WANT A A, A LOOSE FLUFFY LOAD.
AND SO NOW THE STYROFOAM GETS BROKEN INTO, YOU KNOW, ZILLIONS OF LITTLE PIECES.
AND, UH, SO EMPTY YOUR BOXES, FLATTEN YOUR BOXES, MAKE SURE YOUR BOTTLES AND CANS ARE EMPTY, WOULD BE A HUGE HELP TO US.
THANK YOU DOUG AND KATHLEEN FOR BEING HERE TODAY.
I'M EMBARRASSED THAT I STILL HAVE NOT CONNECTED AND GOT MY TOUR OF YOUR FACILITY YET, BUT I'M GOING TO DO THAT.
UH, MY QUESTIONS, WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO STAY UPDATED ON YOUR, THE CURRENT MATERIALS? IS IT YOUR WEBSITE OR IS IT THE SIGNS THAT YOU POST ON THE BINS AT THE CENTER? YEAH, THE WEB, WE DO OUR BEST TO KEEP THE WEBSITE AS UPDATED AS POSSIBLE.
WE DON'T REALLY CHANGE THE BINS BECAUSE THE MATERIAL DOESN'T REALLY CHANGE.
UM, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF REC OF RECYCLING ELECTRONICS IN THE LAST YEAR, I WOULD SAY.
WE ALSO HAVE A NEWSLETTER THAT PEOPLE CAN SIGN UP FOR ON THE, UM, ON THE WEBSITE OF COURSE, WHICH, IF WE'VE GOT ANY KIND OF LIKE UPCOMING EVENTS OR THERE ARE CHANGES LIKE THAT, UM, AS FAR AS RECE RECEIVING SPECIFIC MATERIALS OR CHANGING THINGS AT DIFFERENT SITES OR WHATEVER, THAT WOULD BE PROBABLY THE BEST PLACE TO BE IS OUR NEWSLETTER.
AND THEN MY NEXT QUESTION IS REALLY FOR MY EDUCATION, THE GLASS, WHEN WE'RE PUTTING IT IN THE BEND, WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL NOT TO BREAK IT.
NO, IT'S OKAY BECAUSE WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA BREAK IT.
WE'RE GONNA SHADOW AGAIN BECAUSE WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU SHIP A LOAD, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOTTA MEET A CERTAIN WEIGHT.
THEY DON'T WANT TO TRANSPORT A BUNCH OF AIR AND UH, YEAH.
SO THE GLASS HAS TO BE BROKEN DOWN AND UH, THE, UM, THE MATERIAL, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO, FREIGHT IS A BIG EXPENSE.
YOU KNOW, LIKE RECENTLY, YOU KNOW, DIESEL WAS UP FIVE, $6 A GALLON.
AND SO WHEN WE SH WHEN WE SELL MATERIAL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE SHOPPING AROUND FOR THE, THE BUYER, THE VENDOR WHO'S GONNA PAY THE HIGHEST PRICE.
SOMETIMES ONE VENDOR WILL PAY A HIGHER PRICE, BUT IT DOES NOT INCLUDE FREIGHT.
SO YOU, THOSE ARE TRADE OFFS WE HAVE TO CONSIDER BECAUSE, UM, YOU KNOW, ALL THAT SUBTRACTS FROM THE INCOME YOU'RE GONNA GET FROM SELLING THAT PRODUCT.
AND UH, I WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR ADDING GLASS AND PLASTIC AT THE MOUNTAIN SHADOWS COLLECTION LOW FACILITY.
I'D LIKE GOING THERE CUZ YOUR PARKING LOT'S, A LITTLE BIT DANGEROUS, A LITTLE SMALL AND THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE, WHICH IS SUPER GREAT THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING THERE.
BUT THAT MOUNTAIN SHADOWS ONE I USE QUITE A BIT.
WHAT IS THE STATUS OF YOUR FIVE SITES? ARE THEY ALL STILL IN GOOD SHAPE? ANY THOUGHTS OF EXPANDING OR NOT EXPANDING OR CONTRACTING OR, UM, WE'RE ALWAYS OPEN TO, UM, NEW SITES.
THE TRICK IS FINDING, UM, A SPOT EITHER ON PRIVATE LAND OR ON CITY LAND OR SOMETHING THAT OF COURSE DOESN'T UPSET THE LOCAL, UM, NEIGHBORS IN THAT AREA.
BUT YEAH, AS FAR AS LIKE OUR CURRENT FIVE SITES, THEY'RE ALL, I THINK DOING GREAT.
UM, YEAH, I DON'T REALLY, YEAH.
THE INTERESTING YOU MENTIONED MOUNTAIN SHADOWS.
CAUSE WE, WE HAVE HAD PEOPLE COMPLAIN, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU PUT GLASS IN THE BIN, IT CAN MAKE A LOT OF NOISE IF YOU DROP IT.
IF YOU'RE THE HOUSE NEXT TO THE DROP OFF SITE, YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE NOT REAL THRILLED ABOUT PEOPLE RECYCLING GLASS, SO YEAH.
YOU KNOW, FINDING A SITE THAT DOESN'T, AN UPSET THE NEIGHBORS IS, IS ALSO AN ISSUE.
WHICH IS WHY I DON'T PITCH MY GLASS INTO THOSE BINS.
THE NEIGHBORS ARE SO GRATEFUL.
SO I WOULD SAY THE MAJORITY OF THE SHORT TERM RAILS ARE, ARE NOT USING OUR SERVICE.
THEY'RE USING A, A, A SINGLE STREAM SERVICE.
WE DO, INTERESTINGLY, GET A LOT OF TOURISTS COME IN MM-HMM.
AND THEY, THEY WANT, THEY DON'T WANT HAUL ALL THAT STUFF BACK TO WHEREVER THEY
[00:30:01]
CAME FROM.SO, UH, WE DO GET QUITE A FEW TOURISTS.
UH, DOUG AND KATHLEEN, THANK YOU FOR COMING IN TODAY.
ON THE VARIOUS CATEGORIES OF RECYCLABLE MATERIALS, WHICH OF THOSE DO YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO PAY TO, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE, THE PROVIDER WHO'S GONNA ACTUALLY RECYCLE THEM? I'M ASSUMING THAT YOU DON'T GET PAID FOR ALL OF THEM.
WELL, BATTERIES, I WOULD SAY THAT WE LOSE, WE LOSE MONEY ON EVERYTHING WE RECYCLE.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHY WE NEED THE CITY'S SUBSIDY TO, TO CONTINUE.
AND THE, THE ONLY EXCEPTION WOULD BE IF MATERIAL PRICES FOR SOME THINGS, LIKE WHEN CARDBOARD IS EXTREMELY HIGH, MAYBE YOU MAKE A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY, MAYBE OF A LITTLE, WELL, WE'RE NONPROFITS, SO I SHOULD CALL IT POSITIVE CASH FLOW AS OPPOSED TO NEGATIVE CASH FLOW.
WE'RE NOT TRYING TO MAKE A PROFIT, BUT WE ARE TRYING TO STAY IN BUSINESS.
AND, UH, ALUMINUM, YOU KNOW, WOULD BE ANOTHER THING.
BUT STYROFOAM, THAT'S A HUGE, WE PROBABLY LOSE BETWEEN ONE AND $2 A POUND ON STYROFOAM.
AND, AND THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING THIS QUESTION.
SO, I MEAN, IT'S GREAT THAT WE'RE THE ONLY PLACE WHERE YOU CAN GO RECYCLE STYROFOAM, BUT I MEAN, WE ARE PAYING FOR THAT.
SO, I MEAN, IS IT AT ALL FEASIBLE TO ACTUALLY HAVE ANY TYPE OF DROP OFF CHARGE FOR PARTICULAR COMMODITIES? IS IT ANYTHING YOU'VE EVER CONSIDERED? YEAH, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED.
IT'S JUST THE LOGISTICS OF IT AND HOW WE WOULD ACTUALLY HANDLE IT.
BECAUSE WE RECEIVED SUCH A LARGE ABUNDANCE OF STYROFOAM, IT FILLS UP A BIN VERY FAST.
SO WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THINGS LIKE THERE BEING LIKE A SWIPE, YOU KNOW, A CARD SWIPE BEFORE A DOOR WOULD OPEN TO PUT THE MATERIAL, BUT THEN PEOPLE WOULD JUST LEAVE IT ON THE GROUND.
SO IT'S ABSOLUTELY SOMETHING THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED.
IT'S JUST A MATTER OF LOGISTICALLY, UM, IMPLEMENTING IT.
BUT ABSOLUTELY, IT'S SOMETHING WE'VE TALKED ABOUT.
REMEMBER THAT OUR BINS ARE AVAILABLE 24 HOURS A DAY MM-HMM.
SO THERE'S NOTHING TO STOP SOMEBODY FROM DROPPING WHATEVER THEY WANT TO DROP.
YOU, YOU CAN'T HAVE SOMEBODY STANDING THERE COLLECTING MONEY
AND MY OTHER QUESTION IS, HOW CONSISTENT IS THE VOLUME, LIKE SAY A CARDBOARD, IS THAT A FAIRLY PREDICTABLE VOLUME THAT YOU'RE GONNA BE SHIPPING AT EVERY MONTH? MM-HMM.
AND IS THERE AN OPTION TO WORK WITH A, UH, VENDOR TO GET BETTER PRICING BY COMMITTING AN ONGOING STREAM OF PRODUCT TO, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT? UM, BASICALLY MATERIAL PRICES SOMEWHAT FOLLOW A CYCLE.
YOU KNOW, A MILL WILL BUY A LOT OF MATERIAL STOCKPILE, YOU KNOW, THE RAW, THE, THE RECYCLED MATERIAL, AND THEN THEY WON'T BUY FOR A WHILE, SO THEN YOUR PRICES DROP BECAUSE NOBODY'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S BASIC SUPPLY AND DEMAND.
UM, INTERESTINGLY AT CHRISTMAS TIME HOLIDAYS, PRICES TYPICALLY GO DOWN BECAUSE THEY'VE STOCKED UP BEFORE TO, UH, TO HAVE ALL THE CARDBOARD THEY NEED FOR THEIR BOXES TO SHIP THINGS OR WHATEVER MM-HMM.
SO THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF A CYCLE TO IT, BUT, UH, BASICALLY WHAT HELPS US IS BECAUSE WE PROVIDE SUCH A CLEAN PRODUCT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WANNA BUY FROM US, BUT WE DON'T NECESSARILY, WE DON'T GET A, A PREMIUM PRICE BECAUSE OUR PRODUCT IS CLEANER THAN WASTE MANAGEMENT'S PRODUCT OR WHATEVER.
THAT'S, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO HEAR FROM YOU.
I THINK LAST YEAR YOU MENTIONED THERE WERE SOME ISSUES WITH YOUR TRUCK AND REPAIRS AND THE TRUCK WAS ALWAYS BREAKING DOWN AND I WONDERED, HOW IS YOUR EQUIPMENT NOW? OKAY, WELL YOU HAVE BETTER SHAPE.
IN, IN 2021, OUR, OUR BIG TRUCK, IT WAS A MAC TRUCK.
AND WE, UH, WHAT'S 700,000 MILES ON IT? YEAH.
WE STILL HAVE IT IF YOU KNOW ANYONE WHO WANTS IT.
BUT IT, SO WE, WE, WE, THE PROBLEM IN THIS BUSINESS IS THE MATERIAL NEVER STOPS COMING IN.
YOU KNOW, IF YOUR, IF YOUR STAFF WALKS OUT, IF THE WEATHER'S BAD, IF YOUR EQUIPMENT BREAKS DOWN, PEOPLE STILL KEEP DROPPING STUFF OFF.
SO YOU HAVE TO KEEP UP WHEN THE BINS GET FULL, PEOPLE PUT IT ON THE GROUND.
THEY'RE NOT GONNA STOP RECYCLING.
SO IN 20, THAT'S SUMMER OF 2021, WHEN IT WAS A HUNDRED DEGREES AND OUR TRUCK DIED, WE, WE WERE FORCED TO BUY A NEW TRUCK AND IT WAS $190,000.
SO WE PRETTY MUCH DEPLETED OUR, UH, ASSET REPLACEMENT FUND MONEY, UH, FOR THAT.
UH, AND FOR A COUPLE WEEKS WE HAD, WHILE WE WERE WAITING FOR THAT TRUCK TO GET DELIVERED, WE WERE OUT THERE WITH, YOU KNOW, A PICKUP TRUCK AND A TRAILER, YOU KNOW, JUST TRYING TO DEAL WITH THE OVERFLOW.
WE WEREN'T EMPTYING BINS, WE WERE JUST DEALING WITH THE OVERFLOW.
AND, UH, SO YEAH, KEEP KEEPING
[00:35:01]
YOUR EQUIPMENT RUNNING.UH, OUR GLASS, OUR BIG FRONT LOADER THAT WE USED FOR GLASS, THAT, THAT DIED LAST YEAR AND WE BOUGHT A, WE WERE ABLE TO BUY A USED GLASS LOADER FOR $34,000.
UH, WHAT WAS IN JANUARY, I THINK.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WHEN, WHEN, WHEN EQUIPMENT BREAKS DOESN'T WORK, WE GET IN A WORLD THAT HURT REALLY FAST.
RECENTLY WE'VE BEEN THROUGH A KIND OF A, A SERIES OF CDL DRIVERS TO DRIVE OUR BIG TRUCK, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A COMMERCIAL DRIVER'S LICENSE.
WE'VE HAD, I THINK, FIVE DRIVERS IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, CUZ THEY CAN MAKE A LOT MORE MONEY DRIVING FOR SOMEBODY ELSE THAN, YOU KNOW, FOR US.
AND, UH, SO, YOU KNOW, THE STAFFING, THE EQUIPMENT, THOSE ARE ALL, YOU KNOW, KEEP ME UP AT NIGHT SOMETIMES.
SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN THINGS, WHEN THINGS AREN'T WORKING, UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S A BIG PROBLEM.
WE HAVE REALLY GREAT, SO WE HAVE TWO PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN WITH US FOR 20 YEARS.
EACH ONE HAS BEEN WITH US FOR 18 AND ONE FOR 24.
UM, AND WE'RE SO LUCKY AND BLESSED FOR THAT LOYALTY AND THEIR COMMITMENT AND, UM, DEDICATION TO US.
BUT THE CDL DRIVER SPECIFICALLY HAS BEEN THE CHALLENGING THING BECAUSE, LIKE DOUG MENTIONED, CDL DRIVERS CAN, THEY CAN COMMAND A MUCH HIGHER WAGE THAN WE CAN PAY.
THAT ALSO INCLUDES, UM, YOU KNOW, A WHOLE BUNCH OF BENEFITS AND 401KS AND ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT WE JUST CAN'T PROVIDE AS A SMALL NONPROFIT WITH FIVE EMPLOYEES.
SO THAT'S BEEN OUR BIGGEST TRICKY THING IS, HEY, WE NEED A CDL DRIVER WHO, YOU KNOW, CAN WORK THESE VERY SPECIFIC HOURS AND DRIVE THIS VERY SPECIFIC VEHICLE.
AND I, YOU KNOW, AND WE CAN'T OFFER THEM A WHOLE LOT OF BENEFITS.
ASIDE FROM THAT, WE'VE BEEN VERY FORTUNATE IN A WAY THAT I FEEL LIKE MANY SMALL BUSINESSES HAVE REALLY STRUGGLED.
WE, UM, HAVE SOME REALLY GOOD, SOME REALLY GOOD DEDICATED STAFF MEMBERS THAT, UH, EFRAM HAS BEEN WITH US FOR A YEAR AND A HALF.
AND I THINK PHIL'S BEEN WITH US FOR TWO AND A HALF YEARS, BUT IT'S THAT CDL DRIVER THAT'S BEEN A LITTLE TRICKY TO HANG ONTO, BUT WE JUST HIRED SOMEBODY, SO, OH, WE'RE EXHALING RIGHT NOW.
UH, MY TURN, I, I SEE DOUG ALL THE TIME.
AND, UH, I HAVE TO SAY, YOU REALLY MAKE THAT ORGANIZATION, YOU TRULY, TRULY HAVE A FANTASTIC PLACE.
I SEE YOUR STAFF AND THEY ARE SO DEDICATED.
PETE, WHEN YOU GET THE CHANCE, PLEASE TAKE THAT TOUR FOR A RECYCLING FACILITY THAT CLEAN.
I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DO IT.
IT'S, UH, IT'S JUST, IT SPEAKS VOLUMES TO WHAT YOU DO AND I I REALLY DO APPRECIATE WHAT BOTH OF YOU DO BECAUSE YOU, WE WOULDN'T HAVE THAT FACILITY.
I, I DON'T THINK, OR IT WOULDN'T BE IN A CONDITION IT'S IN RIGHT NOW WITHOUT YOU.
AND, AND YOUR STAFF SHOULD BE COMMENDED.
SO I DO WANT TO ASK A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
UM, I REMEMBER IT WAS LAST YEAR THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH YAPA COUNTY MM-HMM.
UH, IS THERE ANY, UH, EVEN INTEREST ON YOUR PART TO TRY TO RENEGOTIATE OR WITH THE COUNTY, HAS THERE ANY BEEN ANY OUTREACH CUZ ON SOCIAL MEDIA, I SAW AT THE TIME THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF PUSHBACK FROM THE COMMUNITY WHO WANTED IT DOWN BY CLOCKS.
AND SO WE, SO WE HAD A, YOU KNOW, YEARS AGO, WE, WE, WE PULLED OUT A COTTONWOOD IN, IN I THINK 2012 BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT TO, THEY WENT WITH A LOWER BIDDER.
UM, WE, WE PULLED OUT A RIM ROCK AND, UH, AND CAMP VERDE QUITE A FEW YEARS AGO TOO.
UM, LAST IN 2021, OUR CONTRACT WITH YABA PIKE COUNTY, UM, ALL WE WERE SERVING WAS CORNFIELD AND THE VILLAGE OF OAK CREEK.
AND THAT CONTRACT CAME UP FOR RENEWAL.
IT, IT RENEWS, IT KIND OF ROLLS OVER EVERY, EVERY TWO YEARS.
AND THAT WAS WHEN, IN 2021, IF YOU REMEMBER, INFLATION WAS LIKE AT A 40 YEAR HIGH.
AND WE SPENT SIX MONTHS NEGOTIATING WITH THE ABBA PIKE COUNTY TO INCREASE OUR SERVICE FEE.
YOU KNOW, THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, FUEL, SIX BUCKS A GALLON.
THE, THE COUNTY SITES ARE WHERE YOU DO MOST OF YOUR DRIVING.
IT DOESN'T TAKE LONG TO DRIVE AROUND SEDONA, PICK STUFF UP.
BUT YOU GO TO THE VILLAGE, YOU GO TO VILLE, YOU KNOW, THAT TRUCK GETS THREE MILES TO THE GALLON, YOU KNOW, UM, SO GOING DOWNHILL AND, AND YOU'RE, AND YOU'RE PICKING UP MATERIAL, WHICH HAS VERY LITTLE VALUE.
AND WE SPENT SIX MONTHS TRYING TO NEGOTIATE A HIGHER FEE WITH THE YAVAPAI COUNTY.
AND THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY COULDN'T OR WOULDN'T, WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THEIR POSITION, YOU KNOW, BUT WE, WE COULDN'T.
SO WE HAD TO, UH, WE HAD TO END THAT CONTRACT.
THE CONTRACT WAS WRITTEN SO THAT EITHER EITHER PARTY COULD, UH, TERMINATE WITH 30 DAYS NOTICE.
[00:40:01]
WELL, YEAH, LEWIS, YEAH, WE DO CONTINUE.WE DO HAVE A CONTRACT WITH, UH, OR AGREEMENT WITH, UH, CLARK'S MARKET.
THEY, MOST GROCERY STORES HAVE THEIR OWN BALER.
BECAUSE THEY GET A LOT OF CARDBOARD.
ALL THAT FOOD COMES IN BOXES, AND SO THEY BAIL CARDBOARD AND WE GO THERE IN OUR SMALL TRUCK AND PICK UP THOSE BALES OF CARDBOARD.
THEY'RE A PRIVATE CUSTOMER THOUGH.
BUT THEY'RE A PRIVATE CUSTOMER.
YOU KNOW, THE CITY'S NOT SUBSIDIZING THAT.
THEY PAY FOR US TO, TO WELL, THEY DO.
WE HAVE, WE HAVE CONTRACTS WITH BUSINESSES AROUND TOWN AND THEY LIKE RESTAURANTS AND GROCERY STORES AND STUFF.
YOU KNOW, THEY PAY A SERVICE FEE, YOU KNOW, IT'S RECYCLING'S NOT FREE.
THERE'S THIS ILLUSION THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE JUST ROLLING IN MONEY WITH ALL THIS MATERIAL THAT WE'RE GETTING IN AT $3, UH, WITH THREE MILES PER GALLON FOR THE TRUCK.
YOU'RE SPEND A LOT OF MONEY ON FUEL.
AND WHEN THAT TRUCK BREAKS DOWN, YOU KNOW, THE REPAIR BILL, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE TALKING 10, $15,000 TO REPAIR SOMETHING.
DID YOU HAVE YOU WANTED ADD? YEAH, I, I DID.
THERE WAS A COMMENT MADE ABOUT, UH, PERHAPS LOOKING AT, UM, A DROP OFF FEE FOR ITEMS THAT ARE LOSING MONEY.
BUT I'M JUST CONCERNED, DO, DO YOU THINK THAT THAT WOULD'VE AN IMPACT ON DISCOURAGING RECYCLING? UM, IT MIGHT FOR SURE.
AND WE'RE SPECIFICALLY ONLY REFERRING TO STYROFOAM BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A LOSER AND BECAUSE PEOPLE DO KIND OF COME FROM EVERYWHERE BECAUSE THERE'S NOWHERE THAT WE'RE AWARE OF IN THE GENERAL VICINITY THAT ACCEPTS IT.
UM, AND JUST TO MAKE IT MORE OF LIKE A VIABLE, UM, OPTION, I GUESS MORE THAN ANYTHING.
NOT TO PROFIT IN ANY WAY FROM IT, BUT JUST TO MAKE IT SO THAT IT ISN'T SUCH A LOSING.
SO EVEN THOUGH THAT'S BASICALLY BEING SUBSIDIZED FOR THE LOSS THERE, IT'S HELPING DIVERT THOSE MATERIALS, THEREFORE HELPING US IN OUR SUSTAINABILITY EFFORTS.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT? I MEAN, STYROFOAM TAKES, YOU KNOW, HUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS OF YEARS TO BREAK, I THINK EVER.
IF EVER TO BREAK DOWN IN A LANDFILL.
PLUS IT OCCUPIES A LARGE VOLUME IN THE LANDFILL.
SO, UM, IT, YOU KNOW, ENVIRONMENTALLY IT'S, IT'S GOOD TO, ENVIRONMENTALLY IT'S GOOD TO NOT USE STYROFOAM MM-HMM.
BUT IF YOU HAVE TO USE IT TO, UH, RECYCLE IT, RIGHT.
THE PLASTICS ARE, YOU KNOW, A BIG PROBLEM.
THEY BREAK, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T REALLY DECOMPOSE.
THEY JUST BREAK INTO SMALLER PIECES AND THEY END UP IN YOUR FOOD AND YOUR AIR AND YOUR WATER AND EVERYTHING ELSE, AND THE FISH YOU EAT.
AND SO, I MEAN, I'M A BIG, I'M A KIND OF A MINIMALIST AND MY ATTITUDE IS CONSUME LESS, YOU KNOW? MM-HMM.
AND THEN WHEN YOU DO CONSUME USE PACKAGING, THAT IS MINIMAL PACKAGING.
THERE'S PACKAGING THAT'S GONNA BE EASILY RECYCLABLE.
A LOT OF THESE PLASTICS, YOU CAN'T RECYCLE 'EM.
PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THE MANUFACTURER, THEY PUT A LITTLE TRIANGLE ON IT, YOU KNOW, TO FEEL GOOD.
AND, AND PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THEY POINT AND SAY, LOOK, THIS SYMBOL SAYS IT CAN BE RECYCLABLE.
WELL, THERE'S NO MARKET FOR IT.
IT'S ONLY RECYCLABLE IF THERE'S A MARKET.
IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO, IF SOME VENDOR WANTS TO BUY THAT AND TURN IT INTO A NEW PRODUCT, IF THEY DON'T, YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA GO TO THE LANDFILL.
UH, UH, DOUG, FOR WHAT YOU JUST SAID, THE PRODUCE PLASTIC AND CLEAR PLASTIC THAT, YOU KNOW, TOMATOES COME IN.
I KNOW WE DON'T DO THAT ANYMORE, BUT IS THAT STILL THE CASE? THAT'S NO ONE.
THERE'S NO ONE THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM.
WE, WE GET 25 CUBIC YARDS OF TRASH A WEEK, YOU KNOW.
AND, UH, AND SO WE, YOU KNOW, WE PAY WASTE MANAGEMENT, WHAT'S OUR BILL ABOUT SIX GRAND A YEAR, OUR TRASH BILL.
CUZ YOU KNOW, IF WE CAN'T, IT'S RECYCLING OR COLLECTING MATERIALS, STEP ONE OF THE RECYCLING PROCESS, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOTTA GO SOMEWHERE.
AND IF YOU CAN'T, THERE'S NO PLACE FOR IT TO GO REALISTICALLY.
AND TO SHIP SOMETHING OF VERY LITTLE VALUE CLEAR ACROSS THE COUNTRY DOESN'T MAKE ECONOMIC SENSE.
IT DOESN'T MAKE ENVIRONMENTAL SENSE.
YOU WANT TO USE LOCAL MARKETS IN THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, CAN BE TURNED INTO A NEW PRODUCT.
I JUST HATE TAKING THOSE PLASTIC THINGS.
YEAH, JUST ONE OTHER QUESTION, THEN.
THE, THE, THE STYROFOAM JUST KIND OF THROWS ME PEOPLE DRIVING FROM FLAGSTAFF TO, UH, TO, TO BRING IT TO YOU.
I MEAN, THEY'RE UN UNLESS THEY HAPPEN TO BE DRIVING AN EV RIGHT? I MEAN, THEY'RE SPEWING OUT CARBON DIOXIDE.
HAVE WE REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT, IS IS THERE REALLY A NET BENEFIT STILL OR NOT TO SOMETHING LIKE THAT? IT, IT REALLY DEPENDS ON, THERE'S SO MANY, LIKE THERE'S SO MANY WAYS TO LOOK AT IT.
LIKE ENVIRONMENTALLY, IT'S GREAT TO DIVERT IT FROM THE LANDFILL.
BUT ALSO ENVIRONMENTALLY, LIKE YOU'RE SAYING, IF PEOPLE ARE DRIVING FROM ALL OVER, IT'S, YOU KNOW, WE'RE USING ENERGY, OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE SOLAR PANELS ON THE ROOF, BUT YOU KNOW, THAT'S STILL NOT PERFECT, YOU KNOW, ET CETERA.
SO IT REALLY JUST KIND OF DEPENDS ON THE, YOU KNOW, THE SET OF VALUES THAT YOU KNOW, YOU'RE MAKING THE DECISION FROM.
BECAUSE THERE'S NOT LIKE A PERFECT SOLUTION.
JESSICA, YOU'LL BE A LAST WRITE THE POLICY.
IT JUST TURNS INTO MICROPARTICLES THAT WE ARE NOW COMPOSED OF.
[00:45:01]
UM, GLASS IS INFINITELY RECYCLABLE, SO, SO IT WOULD BE BETTER IF I HAD A CHOICE BETWEEN GLASS AND PLASTIC TO CHOOSE GLASS.I'M JUST ASKING, ASKING YOU, IS THAT NOT TRUE? YES.
THIS IS DEFINITELY BETTER PLASTIC.
DEFINITELY SIMPLE IS GOOD SOMETIMES.
WHEN THOUGH, LIKE, WHEN YOU RECYCLE FIBER, YOU KNOW, PAPER AND CARDBOARD OR FIBER, EVERY TIME YOU RECYCLE FIBER, THE FIBERS GET SHORTER.
SO THERE'S, IT CAN ONLY BE RECYCLED A A A FEW TIMES.
SAME WITH THE POLYMERS IN PLASTIC, THEY DEGRADE.
YOU CAN ONLY RECYCLE PLASTIC A FEW TIMES EACH TIME YOU RECYCLE.
IT'S KIND OF BECOMES A LOWER GRADE PRODUCT THAN THE ORIGINAL PRODUCT.
BUT GLASS IS WONDERFUL IN SENSE.
IT'S SAND SILICON, IT CAN BE RECYCLED, YOU KNOW, INFINITELY A NUMBER OF TIMES, INFINITE INFORMATION.
AND WE COULD, I COULD PROBABLY GO ON ALL NIGHT ASKING, BUT I KNOW WE NEED TO MOVE ON.
WE REALLY APPRECIATE ALL THAT YOU DO FOR OUR COMMUNITY.
[8.b. AB 2905 Public hearing/discussion/possible action regarding a reconsideration of City Council’s January 25, 2023, denial of the appeal of the Planning and Zoning Commission's November 15, 2022, denial of a development review application for the Arabella Spa located at 95 Sombart Lane. PZ21-00009 (DEV), APPE22-00003 .]
ITEM EIGHT B AB 29 0 5 PUBLIC HEARING DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING A RECONSIDERATION OF, UH, CITY COUNCIL'S JANUARY 15TH, 2023.DENIAL OF AN APPEAL OF THE PLANNING AND DONING COMMISSIONER'S COMMISSIONS.
DENIAL OF THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW APPLICATION FOR THE ARABELLA SP LOCATED AT 95 SOMBER LANE.
THAT'S, UH, PZ 21 DASH 0 0 0 9, AND A P P E 22 DASH 0 0 0 0 3.
AND THIS WILL BE, UH, PROVIDED BY CARRIE.
YOU'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS.
I WOULD LIKE TO INVITE, I GUESS YOU NEED TO MOVE.
WE SHOULD, UH, LET ME BRING THAT UP.
I WAS JUST THRILLED WITH WHAT DOUG WAS SAYING.
SO, UH, THERE'S A, FOR THE RECONSIDERATION, SO WE HAVE HERE, UH, IT'S JUST RECOGNIZE MELISSA DID MELISSA.
OKAY, I, MELISSA, BECAUSE I CAN'T FIND IT YET.
MAYOR AND COUNSEL, I MOVE TO RECONSIDER THE DECISION REGARDING THE ARAB MADE ON 25TH JANUARY, 2023.
SUPPORT AND TWO, NO, I THINK IT WAS THREE.
I VOTED TO SUPPORT WHAT? OH, YOU VOTED TO SUPPORT? YEAH.
I, UH, COUNCIL, UM, KINSELLA AND VICE COUNCIL.
VICE MAYOR, COULD I JUST MAKE ONE STATEMENT BEFORE WE START, WHICH IS WHY WIT'S BEING ON THE AGENDA? OH, YOU'RE GONNA DO IT.
ACTUALLY, SHOULDN'T WE HAVE HAD QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON WHAT THE MOTION TO RECONSIDER CORRECT.
UH, QUESTIONS COULD HAVE BEEN DISCUSSION, COULD HAVE BEEN, HAD THERE BEEN ANY, IF THERE IS ANY, NOW YOU CAN, YOU COULD STILL RAISE IT AND YOU COULD CALL A NEW VOTE IF, IF THE MAYOR WANTED TO.
IS THERE ANY ISSUE THAT YOU FEEL LIKE, WELL, I, I, IT'S, THE MOTION IS ALREADY PASSED TO RECONSIDER, SO I THINK WE SHOULD MOVE INTO DISCUSSION ON THE SUBSTANCE VERSUS GOING BACK IN TIME.
AND HERE'S, HERE'S THE, UH, OKAY.
SO NOW WE HAVE, UH, SINCE WE WILL BE MOVING FORWARD WITH THAT, SO, UM, WE HAVE STAFF AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS.
UH, DO WE HAVE ANYBODY FROM, UH, THE ARBELLA SPA HERE? DO YOU WANT TO COME UP IN CASE THERE'S QUESTIONS? OKAY.
SO, UH, COUNSEL DUNN FOR YOUR RECONSIDERATION.
SO, UM, FIRST I'D LIKE TO, UM, ASK THE PEOPLE FROM THE ARABELLA SPA AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE ANY UPDATES.
I KNOW THAT THERE WERE CONSIDERATIONS, UM, MENTIONED DURING THE ORIGINAL MEETING, AND I WAS WONDERING WHETHER OR NOT THERE HAVE BEEN ANY FORWARD MOTIONS TOWARDS MITIGATION ON THOSE ISSUES.
AND, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER DON, THERE, THERE ARE
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SOME UPDATES THAT I CAN PROVIDE.UH, BY THE WAY, BENJAMIN TATE, UH, WITH WHAT IS NOW WITHY MORRIS BA OH YES.
UM, AND REALLY, I HAVE UPDATES IN, IN WHAT I WOULD SAY ARE, ARE SORT OF TWO DIFFERENT SILOS.
THERE'S UPDATES IN TERMS OF SUSTAINABILITY, AND THERE ARE ACTUALLY ALSO UPDATES ON TRAFFIC, WHICH I KNOW WAS A CONSIDERABLE, UH, PART OF THE DISCUSSION BACK, UH, EARLIER THIS YEAR.
SO LET ME SEE IF I CAN FIND, THERE WE GO.
SO I'LL, I'LL START WITH SUSTAINABILITY BECAUSE I KNOW THAT, UH, THOUGH IT WAS NOT AS MUCH OF A, THE FOCUS IN THE LAST HEARING, UH, I GUESS OTHER THAN THE SPECIFIC ISSUE OF WATER, UH, SOME OF THE SUBSEQUENT DISCUSSION HAS SORT OF GONE THAT DIRECTION.
SO, UH, JUST A FEW UPDATES IN THAT RESPECT.
UH, WE ARE NOW COMMITTING ON ADDING FIVE TO SIX EV CHARGING STATIONS AS PART OF THIS PROPOSAL.
UH, PURSUING THE SUSTAINABLE BUSINESS CERTIFICATION FROM THE SUSTAINABILITY ALLIANCE, UH, COMMITTING TO THE ELIMINATION OF SINGLE USE PLASTIC, JUST AS PART OF THE GENERAL OPERATIONS OF THE FACIL FACILITY, WHICH DOES INCLUDE A, UH, IT'S A RESTAURANT, IT'S A PRIVATE RESTAURANT, MEANING THAT IF YOU ARE A GUEST OF THE SPA, YOU CAN USE THE RESTAURANT, BUT IT'S NOT SORT OF PUBLIC FACING.
UM, UH, JUST A COUPLE OF CLARIFICATIONS JUST IN TERMS OF LANDSCAPING, BECAUSE I THINK FROM A, UH, A SUSTAINABILITY STANDPOINT, BOTH IN TERMS OF WATER USAGE, BUT ALSO JUST, UH, PRESERVING AND SUSTAINING SOME OF THE EXISTING VEGETATION ON SITE, I FELT LIKE THIS WAS AN IMPORTANT POINT TO HIGHLIGHT.
SO, UM, 72% OF THE EXISTING TREES ON SITE WILL EITHER REMAIN IN PLACE OR BE SALVAGED FOR TRANSPLANT FOR A DEVELOPMENT OF THE SIZE.
AND REALLY THE ONLY WAY THAT WE'RE ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THAT IS THE FACT THAT THIS, UH, DEVELOPMENT ONLY HAS 29% LOT COVERAGE.
SO MOST OF THIS SITE WILL REMAIN UNDEVELOPED IN TERMS OF ACTUALLY HAVING ANYTHING OTHER THAN AN, UH, AN IM OR A PERMEABLE SURFACE ON IT.
SO THROUGH THAT, WE'RE ABLE TO, UH, EITHER SALVAGE OR TRANSPLANT 90 OR 72% OF THE EXISTING TREES.
AND ALL OF THE ADDITIONAL TREES AND SHRUBS THAT ARE GONNA BE PLANTED AS PART OF THIS DEVELOPMENT WILL BE 100% NATIVE
UM, A A COUPLE OF POINTS ON THE POOL EQUIPMENT THAT I DIDN'T SPEND AS MUCH TIME ON LAST TIME, BUT I FEEL LIKE THEY'RE IMPORTANT, IMPORTANT FROM A, A POWER CONSUMPTION STANDPOINT.
SO THE FILTRATION SYSTEMS, UH, WILL REDUCE ENERGY CONSUMPTION FROM A NORMAL FILTRATION SYSTEM BY ABOUT 50%.
THE THERMAL POOL COVERS, UM, WILL REDUCE EVAPORATION RELATED WATER LOSS BY 95% WHEN IN USE AND REDUCE ENERGY CONSUMPTION FOR THE TEMPERATURE REGULATED POOLS TO THE POOLS ARE HEATED, UM, BY ABOUT 50%.
AND FINALLY, THE, THE VARIABLE SPEED POOL PUMPS ACTUALLY REDUCE ENERGY CONSUMPTION COMPARED TO A TYPICAL TWO SPEED POWER, UH, POOL PUMP BY ABOUT 90%.
UH, WE ARE DOING THE SHUTTLE STOP TO REDUCE TRAFFIC, UM, FROM LOCAL VEHICLE PASSENGER TRAFFIC TO TRY TO ENCOURAGE MORE, UH, RIDE SHARING, MORE SH SHUTTLE USAGE.
AND AGAIN, I, I KNOW I COVERED THIS AS PART OF THE LANDSCAPING, BUT THE 29% LOCK COVERAGE ON TRAFFIC, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THE WAY THAT, AND THE METHODS THAT WERE USED TO COME UP WITH OUR TRAFFIC NUMBERS WERE A CONSIDERABLE PART OF THE DISCUSSION AND THE SOURCE OF, UH, PARTICULARLY WITH COUNCIL MEMBER FURMAN, UH, THE SOURCE OF WHERE THAT DATA WAS DERIVED FROM TO ARRIVE AT OUR PROJECTED TRAFFIC NUMBERS.
SO WE KIND OF WENT BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD.
ANDREW BAIRD AND, AND KIMLEY HORN STILL CONSULTED THE ITT TRIP GENERATION MANUAL WITH THE MOST RECENT VERSION OF OUR TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS.
UH, WHICH, WHICH HASN'T BEEN SUBMITTED TO STAFF BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, TECHNICALLY RIGHT NOW THE APPLICATION IS DENIED.
SO THERE'S REALLY NOTHING FOR US TO SUBMIT.
UH, BUT NONETHELESS, WE WENT THROUGH THE EXERCISE OF KIND OF REEXAMINING THAT TO SEE WHERE WE COME OUT USING DATA THAT WAS MORE PINPOINTED SPECIFIC TO THE SITE.
UH, AND SO WHAT ANDREW'S TE, UH, TEAM DID WAS TAKE, UM, A FEASIBILITY STUDY THAT WAS DONE SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS SPA AND WHAT THEY ANTICIPATE IN TERMS OF THE, UH, DAILY PATRONAGE OF THE SPA, HOW LONG PEOPLE INTEND TO STAY AT THIS SPA, LOOKING AT OTHER SIMILAR SPAS TO DERIVE THAT DATA, TO REALLY DRILL DOWN ON WHAT THEY EXPECT TO BE THE ACTUAL DAILY TRIPS TO THIS SITE BASED, AND NOT ONLY THE ACTUAL DAILY TRIPS, BUT THEN TAKING THAT AND RUNNING IT THROUGH A FEDERAL STUDY.
THAT, AND, AND, AND MAYBE I'M BUTCHERING IT SLIGHTLY, UH, BUT, BUT THE IDEA, UH, WAS THAT BASED UPON THE TYPE OF USE, UH, AND THIS BEING A SPA, THE AVERAGE NUMBER OF PASSENGERS PER VEHICLE BASED ON THIS SURVEY THAT, THAT ARRIVE AT ANY PARTICULAR SPA JUST ON AVERAGE.
AND SO, SO THEY USED THE NUMBER OF PATRONS THEY EXPECTED EVERY DAY AND SPIT IT THROUGH THIS SURVEY DATA TO ANTICIPATE THE ACTUAL NUMBER OF CARS BASED ON THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THEY WERE EXPECTING EVERY DAY.
UH, AND WHEN THEY DID ALL THAT, TWO THINGS HAPPENED.
FIRST, THE INTERNAL CAPTURE RATE WENT DOWN FROM 38% TO 32%.
SO THERE WAS A DECREASE IN THE ANTICIPATED RATE OF THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE FROM THE HOTEL THAT WERE EXPECTED TO COME TO THE SPA.
HOWEVER, THAT 32% WAS APPLIED TO A TOTAL TRIP GENERATION
[00:55:01]
PER DAY THAT WENT FROM ONE THOUSAND ONE HUNDRED ONE THOUSAND ONE HUNDRED TWENTY ONE TRIPS PER DAY TO 546.OUR, OUR TRIP GENERATION WAS MORE THAN CUT IN HALF WHEN WE USED MORE SITE SPECIFIC DATA THAN THE IT TRIP GENERATION MAN, COULD YOU RESTATE THOSE NUMBERS PLEASE? YES.
UM, WE WENT FROM 1,121 AVERAGE DAILY TRIPS IN THE AUGUST, 2022 STUDY TO 546 AVERAGE DAILY TRIPS IN THE MOST RECENT VERSION OF THIS STUDY.
COULD YOU, I, I REALLY AM STRUGGLING TO UNDERSTAND THE METHODOLOGY, SO COULD YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN AND IT WOULD'VE BEEN NICE IF YOU HAD SENT US A COPY OF THAT SO WE COULD HAVE THAT.
WELL, FRANKLY, WE WERE, WE WEREN'T SURE THAT THIS WAS GOING TO MAKE IT THROUGH RECONSIDERATION VOTE.
ANDREW BAIRD, KIMLEY HORN CIVIL ENGINEER, UH, SPOKE WITH YOU LAST TIME WE DISCUSSED THIS PROJECT.
SO THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS THE FIRST TIME WE SUBMITTED THE T I A, WHICH YOU HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW, IT WAS JUST BASED ON SQUARE FOOTAGE, JUST IT STRAIGHT UP LIKE A ATHLETIC CLUB SLASH SPA SQUARE FOOTAGE.
THIS IS THE TRIPS WE'LL GENERATE AFTERWARDS.
WE WERE ABLE TO ACTUALLY TALK TO THE OWNER AND TALK OPERATIONALLY HOW THE SPA WILL FUNCTION.
AND IT'S REALLY LIMITED TO AVAILABLE LOCKERS.
SO THERE'S ONLY 350, THERE'S 350 LOCKERS AT THE SPA.
YOU CANNOT COME TO THE SPA WITHOUT A LOCKER.
THEY ANTICIPATE A TURNOVER OF MAYBE TWO LOCK THE LOCKER BEING USED BY TWO PATRONS A DAY.
BUT AGAIN, OPERATIONALLY SO THEY CAN KEEP A ROLLING TURNOVER, WE SAID THEY'RE GONNA KEEP ABOUT 20% OPEN.
SO THAT'S WHERE ULTIMATELY WHEN WE LOOKED AT JUST A BASIC IT NUMBER, WE HAD 1100.
BUT AS WE BROKE IT DOWN, REALISTICALLY IT'S 500 BECAUSE THE LIMITATIONS IN THE OPERATIONS OF THE FACILITY, WHICH WE DID NOT INCLUDE LAST TIME.
IF YOU RECALL LAST TIME WE CAME, WE SAW NO ISSUE WITH 1100 VEHICLES PER DAY.
UH, WE HAD PRESENTED IT TO ADOT AND UNFORTUNATELY HAD NOT GOTTEN A REVIEW FROM THEM, BUT STILL BASED ON OUR STUDY AND ULTIMATELY THE LEVEL OF SERVICE OF THAT INTERSECTION, UH, FROM A TRAFFIC STANDPOINT, UH, IT WOULD NOT DEGRADE THE OVERALL INTERSECTION.
WHEN WE DRILLED IT DOWN AS, AS BEN MENTIONED, WE WERE ABLE TO LOOK AT, AGAIN, THE LOCKER AVAILABILITY AS A LIMITATION, WHICH WE WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY UNAWARE OF, BUT WE DID NOT SEE THAT NECESSARY TO DRILL DOWN THAT FAR WITH THE FIRST ITERATION OF IT.
SO WHILE IT MAY SEEM LIKE WE ARE JUST ARBITRARILY REDUCING TRAFFIC BY HALF, IT'S ACTUALLY BASED ON OPERATIONALLY HOW THE THE SPA IS GOING TO TO FUNCTION.
UM, AND THEN AS, AS BEN MENTIONED, AND AS WE INCLUDED IN THE REPORT, WHICH WE SUBMITTED, SO, SO ALSO TO, TO TAKE A STEP BACK, ONE OF THE OTHER ISSUES WAS THE FACT THAT ADA HAD NOT YET REVIEWED THE STUDY AT THAT TIME.
SO SINCE THAT LAST MEETING, WE WERE ABLE TO GO BACK AND FORTH WITH ADOT, GET AN INITIAL REVIEW OF THE FIRST STUDY, WHERE THEY HAD VERY SIMILAR QUESTIONS THAT YOU GUYS HAD IN TERMS OF INTERNAL CAPTURE.
UM, THEY HAD QUESTIONS ON ULTIMATELY, LET'S SEE, WHEN OUR COUNTS WERE DONE.
AND, AND ONE OF THE BIGGER THINGS WAS THAT, UM, IF YOU FOR A A A FOR A, A RURAL COMMUNITY, WHICH BY THE NATURE OF THE POPULATION OF SEDONA, IT'S CONSIDERED RURAL, THAT A LEVEL OF SERVICE D ON AN APPROACH INTERSECTION IS, IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
UM, SO WE ENDED UP WORKING WITH ADOT.
WE SUBMITTED THE FIRST TRAFFIC STUDY, HAD A PHONE CALL WITH THEM, UH, DISCUSSED THE INTERNAL CAPTURE AND THE METHODOLOGY, AND ALSO DISCUSSED THAT WE ALL KNOW THIS SEDONA, WHILE POPULATION OF 10,000, WE SEE AN ANNUAL ANYWHERE FROM THREE TO 4 MILLION VISITORS A YEAR.
THIS IS CLEARLY OPERATING AN URBAN SETTING.
SO WE ENDED UP DISCUSSING THAT WITH THE ADOT TRAFFIC REVIEWER WHO TALKED TO HIS SUPERVISOR.
WE UPDATED THE REPORT BASED ON DISCUSSION WITH ADOT AND OPERATIONAL DISCUSSIONS WITH THE OWNER AND SUBMITTED IT AND ULTIMATELY RECEIVED APPROVAL FROM THEM, UH, PENDING COORDINATION WITH SEDONA.
SO THEY APPROVED WITH A DEGRADE DEGRADATION TO D OR DID IT COME UP? SO IT WOULD GO FROM A C TO A D? YES.
AND THAT, THAT'S ACCEPTABLE FOR A, A MINOR COLLECTOR APPROACH TO, TO AN INTERSECTION THAT'S, THAT'S STRAIGHT OUT OF ADOT TGB TWO 40, WHICH IS THEIR STANDARDS.
IT'S JUST A MATTER OF, THEY TOOK IT BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW THAT SEDONA BY POPULATION IS CONSIDERED RURAL.
ONCE WE ACTUALLY WENT THROUGH THE ACTUAL TRAFFIC THAT WE HAVE HERE, THEY HAD ZERO ISSUE WITH AN L O S D, WHICH WAS CAPTURED IN BOTH THE REPORT FROM, UH, FROM AUGUST AS WELL AS THE UPDATE IN MARCH.
BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THAT AVAILABLE FOR US TO REVIEW AND LOOK AT.
KATHY, I HAVE ONE HARD COPY HERE, BUT, BUT AGAIN, ULTIMATELY EIGHT O APPROVED.
I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE, THE CRUXES OF, OF LAST TIME WAS THAT ONE, WE DIDN'T HAVE COMMENTS FROM 'EM, AND
[01:00:01]
I THINK A LOT WE'RE KIND OF LEANING ON.ULTIMATELY EVERYTHING DUMPS INTO THE HIGHWAY.
WHAT DOES ADOT THINK OF THIS? AND WE AGAIN, HAD, THERE'S EMAIL CORRESPONDENCE FOR THE LAST THREE MONTHS AS WELL AS MULTIPLE SUBMITTALS TO THEM TO, TO GET DOWN TO, TO ULTIMATELY AN APPROVAL FOR.
AND I THINK THE IMPORTANT POINT TO NOTE THAT ALONG WITH THAT IS IT WAS APPROVED WITH NO ADDITIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE BEING NECESSARY, MEANING THAT ADOT THOUGHT THE IMPACT WAS SMALL ENOUGH THAT NO ADDITIONAL CHANGES TO THE INTERSECTION OF 1 79 AND SAMBAR WERE NECESSARY.
THE ONLY THING THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY REQUIRING US TO DO IS THERE IS A, UH, A STRIPED STOP BAR AT SOBAR AT THE INTERSECTION OF SOBAR IN 1 79 THAT THEY'RE SIMPLY ASKING US TO MOVE CLOSER TO 1 79 BECAUSE IT'S SET SO FAR BACK FROM 1 79 THAT IT, IT, IT FORCES CARS TO STOP TOO FAR BACK FROM THE, FROM THE HIGHWAY.
AND, AND TO CLARIFY IT ACTUALLY, WE, WHERE THE STOP BAR SITS RIGHT NOW STILL MEETS SITE DISTANCE REQUIREMENTS.
SO WE RAN THAT, THAT CALC AS WELL, AND SUBMITTED AN EXHIBIT TO THEM TO REVIEW.
THEY JUST SUGGESTED TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BETTER, YOU COULD MOVE THE STOP BAR UP A COUPLE FEET TO ALLOW FOR SITE DISTANCE UNDER 20, 30 FEET DOWN THE HIGHWAY.
AND WHAT ABOUT THE LEFT TURN LANE? THEY APPROVE THAT.
SO WE, WE, WE, WE PUT AN EXHIBIT FOR THAT TOGETHER AS WELL.
YOU CAN ONLY REALLY STORE ONE CAR, WHICH WOULD HELP, BUT YOU HAVE, YOU END UP, THERE'S ONLY 30 FEET OF SPACE THERE.
SO WE'D HAVE A 10 FOOT LEFT TURN LANE AND TWO 10 FOOT LANES.
ADOT SUGGESTED THAT WE HOLD OFF ON THAT UNTIL WE SEE OPERATIONALLY HOW THE INTERSECTION FUNCTIONS AFTER THE SPA GOES INTO PLACE.
AGAIN, I GLEANED FROM THAT THEY DO NOT SEE THIS AS A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT WILL IMPACT THE INTERSECTION.
AND IT IS MORE, I WON'T SAY A WAIT AND SEE APPROACH, BUT THEY SUGGESTED YES, THAT COULD BE IMPLEMENTED, BUT THEY SAID THEY'RE GONNA TALK TO PUT THAT ON SEDONA TO ULTIMATELY DECIDE HOW THEY WANNA STRIKE THAT APPROACH.
THEY RECOMMENDED MOVING THE STOCK WIRE FORWARD, BUT HOLD OFF ON ADDING A LEFT TURN LIGHT.
NOW JESSICA, GO AHEAD JESSICA.
NO, THE LAWYER ANSWERED THE QUESTION THAT I HAD.
SO YOU'VE SAID SEVERAL TIMES NOW THAT DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THE MITIGATIONS THAT YOU'RE CONTEMPLATING RELY ON SEDONA.
SO MAY I ASK CARRIE A QUESTION? SURE.
SO IN PARTICULAR, LIKE THE LEFT TURN LANE, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD FIND TO BE ADVANTAGEOUS FOR US TO HAVE AVAILABLE FOR THE TRAFFIC? UM, SO I, I DON'T KNOW IF THE FIRST TO OUR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT FOR TRAFFIC QUESTIONS FINE.
I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T KNOW SHE WAS BACK THERE.
UM, I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT ONE OF THE RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL WHEN THIS WENT THROUGH, UM, WAS THAT THEY COMPLY WITH ANY TRAFFIC MITIGATION MEASURES THAT ARE DEEMED APPROPRIATE AFTER WERE ABLE TO REVIEW ADO T'S COMMENTS ON THE, UM, TRAFFIC STUDY.
WHICH ONE? I, I WOULD JUST RECOMMEND THAT WE BE CAREFUL WITH IMPLEMENTING THAT.
WHAT, WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF YOU ADD MORE LANES TO THE SIDE STREET, YOU'RE NOW INTERRUPTING THROUGH TRAFFIC.
SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS WHERE WE HAVE ISSUES TODAY ON 1 79 WITH CONGESTION, YOU COULD POTENTIALLY BE MAKING THAT WORSE.
SO I WOULDN'T RUSH TO, TO IMPLEMENT SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
I I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD FURTHER STUDY IF WE FEEL LIKE AT SOME POINT IN LOOKING AT THE OPERATION OF THAT AREA THAT THAT'S NEEDED, YOU KNOW, UM, WE COULD CONSIDER IT, BUT I, I THINK IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD JUST BLINDLY IMPLEMENT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF DELAY.
AS ANDREW STA STATED, A LEVEL OF SERVICE D IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS IS NOT ONLY ACCEPTABLE, BUT IT'S A LOT OF TIMES A BETTER SITUATION THAN TAKING THE, THE THROUGH TRAFFIC AND REDUCING THE LEVEL OF SERVICE ON, ON THAT APPROACH TO THE INTERSECTION.
IF I MAY ADD SOMETHING BY PUSHING THE STOP BAR, YOU KNOW, A FEW FEET FURTHER, THAT ALMOST CREATES, NOT, IT DOESN'T CREATE A LEFT TURN LANE, BUT WHEN THE FIRST VEHICLE WHO'S MAYBE TRYING TO TAKE A LEFT AND CREATING THAT DELAY, IF THEY'RE ABLE TO MOVE FURTHER ENOUGH, YOU KNOW, A FEW FEET FURTHER, THEN THAT WOULD BASICALLY CREATE ANOTHER RIGHT TURN LANE WITHOUT ACTUALLY STRIPING IT, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
UH, WHERE'RE TO START HERE, LET ME FIRST ASK, JUST FOR SOME CLARIFICATION, THERE WAS A LOT OF NUMBERS THAT WERE RUN.
CAN YOU RECITE FOR ME AGAIN, WHAT? DID ADOT APPROVE
[01:05:01]
THE, THE 1100 CARS? THAT'S THEY NO, THEY APPROVED THE UPDATED REPORT.CARS AND THE 32% INTERNAL CAPTURE RATE? YES.
SO MY FIRST QUESTION REALLY, WE WILL START BACK WITH THE ELEMENT THAT I SPENT A BUNCH OF TIME ON OUR LAST MEETING, WHICH WOULD BE NC H RRP REPORT 6 84.
DO WE KNOW, IS THAT THE CURRENT STATUS OF INTERNAL CAPTURE? HAS THERE BEEN A REPORT THAT HAS SUBS SUBSEQUENT TO THAT, THAT'S UPDATED? ANY OF THOSE NUMBERS OR CONCERNS THAT ARE LISTED BY THE EXPERTS IN 6 84? YEAH, SO WE, WE WENT AWAY FROM USING THAT AND WE ACTUALLY USED THE FEASIBILITY STUDY THAT WAS COMPLETED AS PART OF THE YOU DID THAT.
I'M ASKING WHETHER 6 84 ITSELF, WHETHER THERE WAS ANOTHER INDUSTRY STUDY THAT HAS UPDATED THE CONCERNS THAT WERE LISTED IN 6 84.
UH, WE DID NOT UPDATE BASED ON THAT.
WE UPDATE BASED ON THE DUE DILIGENCE THAT WAS DONE BY THE, THE SPOT.
SO, AND YOU'RE USING WE AS IN WE AND THIS PROJECT? CORRECT.
I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE CURRENT STATUS OF THE KNOWLEDGE IN THE INDUSTRY AT 6 84 IS STILL THE LAST REPORT THAT HAS EVER BEEN ISSUED ON INTERNAL CAPTURE RATES.
I, I DID NOT GO THAT ROUTE ANYMORE TO FIND UPDATES THERE ONCE WE HAD A FEASIBILITY STUDY COMPLETED BY THE SPOT ITSELF.
AND ONCE WE LOOKED AT THAT AND SAW THAT IT WAS, IT RANGED FROM 32 TO 41% AND CONSULTED SOME OF THE OTHER TRAFFIC ENGINEERS WITHIN OUR COMPANY, UH, WE FELT STRONGLY THAT 32 WAS AN APPROPRIATE NUMBER FOR THIS PROJECT.
I THINK MAYOR, THAT I'M GONNA MAKE MORE COMMENTS ABOUT MY CONCERNS THAT ARE STILL IN 6 84 AND THE PROCESS THAT WE USE INTERNALLY TO STAFF, BUT THEY'RE NOT REALLY QUESTIONS.
SO I THINK I'LL RESERVE THOSE FOR FOR COMMENTS.
COMMENTS, COMMENTS? COUNCIL, GOODELL, YOU LOOK LIKE YOUR, I'M RESERVING FOR COMMENTS.
SO YOU STILL HAVE MORE, YOU STARTED ON SUSTAINABILITY.
DO YOU HAVE, AND THEN TRAFFIC, DO YOU HAVE MORE OF A PRESENTATION? UH, COUNCIL MEMBER WILLIAMSON? NO, THAT WAS REALLY, THANK YOU.
I, AND I ACTUALLY WOULD LIKE TO NOTE ONE THING THAT WE GLOSSED OVER A LITTLE BIT, BUT I THINK IT'S, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE INTERNAL CAPTURE BECAUSE AGAIN, COUNCIL MEMBER FERMAN, WE'VE GONE AWAY FROM USING THE, THE ITT INTERNAL CAPTURE MODEL IS NOT BEING USED FOR THIS VERSION OF THE TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS AT ALL, OTHER THAN TO LOOK AT THE SPLIT BETWEEN THE AM PEAK AND THE PM PEAK AS FAR AS OUR TRIP DISTRIBUTION AND PART OF THAT FEASIBILITY STUDY AND PART OF DIGGING INTO OTHER HOTELS AND SPAS AND THEIR INTERNAL CAPTURE RATES, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE PERCENTAGE CAME FROM.
ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE'RE ANTICIPATING, AND IT'S IN, ITS IN THIS MOST RECENT TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS, IS THAT AS THE SPA ESTABLISHES ITSELF AND AS THE SPA AS PART OF THE HOTEL BECOME, BECOME MORE SYNONYMOUS WITH ONE ANOTHER, THAT INTERNAL CAPTURE RATE IS EXPECTED TO INCREASE FROM 32% IN 2023 TO 41% IN 2027.
MEANING THAT AS IT DEVELOPS A REPUTATION, OUR OVERALL TRIP GENERATION WILL ACTUALLY GO DOWN BECAUSE MORE OF THE HOTEL GUESTS WILL BE USING THE SPA AS TIME GOES ON.
I, I WILL HAVE A COMMENT THAT SPEAKS DIRECTLY TO THE CONCERN THAT STILL OKAY.
AND THEN MELISSA, I, UM, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE, THE 38% AS I RECALL, WAS THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE AT THE HOTEL WHO WERE GONNA USE THE SPOT.
IT WAS, IT WAS ABOUT THE PARKING WAS NOT, IS THAT CORRECT? IT WAS BOTH.
SO THE PARKING AND THEN IT WOULD REDUCE THE, SO IT WOULD REDUCE THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES AND ALSO THE NUMBER OF TRIPS, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YEAH, IT WOULD REDUCE THE NUMBER OF NEW TRIPS SPECIFIC TO THE SPA.
SOME WOULD BE TRIPS TO THE HOTEL THAT WOULD WALK TO THE SPA.
SO THAT WOULD EQUATE TO BOTH A REDUCTION IN TRIPS AND PARKING.
I'LL SAVE MY COMMENTS FOR, I'LL SAVE THE REST OF 'EM FOR COMMENTS.
COUNSEL DUNN? YEAH, SO, SO TO FOLLOW ON, ON THE PARKING THAT WAS, UM, MENTIONED AS BEING CONTENTIOUS, UH, AS I RECALL.
AND IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE IN THE IDEA AROUND PARKING? I MEAN, I KNOW WE CAN'T KNOW WHAT WE DON'T KNOW, BUT I WAS JUST WONDERING WHAT THE THOUGHTS WERE ON PARKING.
WAS IT STILL GOING TO BE SORT OF, YOU HOPE THAT PEOPLE WILL OVERFLOW INTO THE HOTEL AND THAT IN A FUTURE DAY YOU'D BE WILLING TO CONSIDER AN AMENDMENT ABOUT IF IT TURNS OUT THAT PARKING IS AN ISSUE TO RECONSIDER PARKING? UH, MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBER DUNN.
[01:10:01]
TWO THINGS THAT I'LL POINT OUT.FIRST IS THAT ALTHOUGH BASED ON THIS NEW TRIP OR TRAFFIC TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS, WE'RE EXPECTING OUR ANTICIPATED TRIPS TO BE, AGAIN, MORE THAN CUT IN HALF, WHICH WOULD ALSO IMPACT WHAT WE WOULD PROJECT TO BE OUR OVERALL PARKING NEEDS.
WE'RE NOT CHANGING THE AMOUNT OF PARKING THAT WE ARE PROPOSING AS PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT, WHICH MEANS THAT, I GUESS TWO THINGS.
THE FIRST IS THAT IF WE'RE RIGHT AND OUR TRIP GENERATION IS CONSIDERABLY LOWER THAN EVEN WHAT WE HAD IN INITIALLY ANTICIPATED, WE'LL HAVE EVEN MORE OF A BUFFER BUILT IN FOR IF WE, IF IT'S MORE THAN THE 4 5 46, BUT IT'S STILL LESS THAN THE 1121, MEANING WE HAVE MORE ROOM TO WORK WITH NOW THAT OUR, WE ARE, OUR ANTICIPATED TRIP GENERATION IS SO MUCH LOWER.
SO THAT'S NUMBER ONE, IS THAT BASED ON THIS NEW ANALYSIS, WE'RE STILL PRO PROPOSING THE SAME AMOUNT OF PARKING, BUT WE'RE IN A MUCH BETTER POSITION THAN WE WERE EVEN AT THE LAST COUNCIL MEETING.
AND, AND THE SECOND IS, YES, THAT AS PART OF OUR PARKING AGREEMENT THAT WE WOULD ULTIMATELY EXECUTE AS PART OF THIS DEVELOPMENT FOR THE SHARED PARKING, UH, THERE WOULD INCLUDE A, A, A PROVISION THAT I BELIEVE WAS DISCUSSED AT THE LAST COUNCIL MEETING IS THAT IF IT EVER BECAME A PROBLEM, THE CITY WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO REVISIT THIS AND FORCE US TO BUILD MORE PARKING.
OKAY, DAN, WHAT I, I THINK IF ALL OF OUR QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED, BEFORE WE GET TO, UH, COMMENTS, I'D LIKE TO OPEN THE PUBLIC FOR FORUM TO THE, OR THE PUBLIC HEARING.
UH, WE HAVE THREE CARDS IF ANYBODY ELSE WOULD LIKE TO THAT HASN'T ALREADY FILLED OUT A CARD.
UH, ANYBODY THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, PLEASE DO SO NOW, UH, THE FIRST SPEAKER WILL BE SUZANNE, UH, GOSAR, FOLLOWED BY DENNIS LEWIS.
UH, WHO WILL BE ON DECK AND, OKAY.
SO JUST TO REMIND YOU, YOU, UH, START WITH YOUR NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE AND YOU HAVE, UH, CHECK THE LIGHTS TO YOUR RIGHT.
YOU'LL START WITH GREEN AND IT'LL WORK ITS WAY DOWN AND, AND BUZZ FOR THREE MINUTES.
I LIVE AT 30 PINEWOOD DRIVE IN OAK CREEK KNOWLES, WHICH IS ADJACENT TO THE ARABELLA PROPERTY.
I HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE 1987, SEEN A LOT OF CHANGES.
WHAT I FEEL YOU AND THE REST OF US IN SEDONA NEED TO BE MOST AWARE OF IS OUR WATER USAGE.
WE ARE IN THE HEIGHT OF A HISTORIC DROUGHT.
AND TO CONSIDER A SPA AT THIS TIME, I THINK IS UNCONSCIONABLE AND UNACCEPTABLE, THE TRAFFIC PROBLEM.
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER ANY OF YOU, SINCE THE LAST GATHERING HAVE BEEN TO SO BART LANE OR HIKED AROUND IN THAT AREA.
IT'S A VERY SMALL SPACE AND FOR ME, I THINK THAT IT'S FINE FOR THE CITY OF SEDONA TO CHOOSE OPEN SPACE.
WE HAVE VERY LITTLE OF IT ANYMORE.
I APPRECIATE THE ARABELLA AND WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.
I THINK WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING SOUNDS BEAUTIFUL, BUT I SAID IT THE LAST MEETING, AND I'LL SAY IT AGAIN.
IT'S SOMETHING WE DO NOT WANT IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND I THINK CONSIDERING THAT IT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST TRAFFIC PROBLEMS IN SEDONA IS EXACTLY WHERE THEY'RE WANTING TO ADD MORE.
SO, UM, I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF YOU WOULD DENY THIS PROJECT.
AND THEN DENNIS LEWIS, FOLLOWED BY DANIELLE LEWIS.
I LEFT OUT THE MIDDLE NAME, BUT I, I CAN'T PRONOUNCE IT.
I ALSO LIVE ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE PROPERTY, UM, MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL.
I THOUGHT A LOT ABOUT WHAT TO SAY TODAY AND HOW TO APPROACH THIS.
I FIRST WANNA STATE THAT I DON'T ENJOY RESTATING THE SAME CONCERNS.
UM, THIS CAUSES ME STRESS, ANXIETY.
AND SINCE THIS IS THE FOURTH HEARING FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT, I DO HAVE SOME MILD FEAR OF RETALIATION.
UH, IF THIS DOESN'T PASS, ONCE AGAIN.
UM, THAT BEING SAID, I'M HERE BECAUSE I CARE AND I BELIEVE IN OUT OF SIGHT, OUT OF MIND, AND I THINK I WOULD REGRET NOT SHOWING UP.
UM, YOU'VE HEARD MYSELF AND OTHERS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD
[01:15:01]
SPEAK IN THE PAST ON ISSUES WITH THE HOTEL AND OWNERSHIP, INCLUDING A LACK OF COMMITMENT TO THE COMMUNITY.UH, ALL THESE COMMENTS ARE STILL VERY VALID.
I THINK THE OVERARCHING THEME HERE IS A LACK OF TRUST.
UM, ONCE AGAIN, UM, ONCE THIS LAST HEARING WAS DENIED, UM, THIS IS NOW THE SECOND TIME A MAJOR CALCULATION OR DATA SET HAS BEEN CHANGED OR ALTERED LAST MINUTE.
AND, AND NOW WE'RE BACK HEARING SOME ADDITIONAL NUMBERS THAT SUDDENLY MAKE IT MUCH MORE ATTRACTIVE.
THEY WEREN'T PREPARED WHEN THEY CAME TO THE HEARINGS BEFORE.
UH, IT'S, IT'S A CONCERN OF MINE.
UM, ADDITIONALLY, WE, I THINK OUR BE OUR ATTRACTING WITH THIS, UH, PARTICULAR PROPOSAL, A BENEFIT ONLY TO THE OWNERS OF THE SPA.
UM, I DON'T SEE THE BENEFIT TO THE CITY OF SEDONA OR THE COMMUNITY.
UM, IT'S, IT'S GOING TO HURT TRAFFIC.
IT'S GOING TO DETRACT, UH, FROM PARKING SPOTS TO A PUBLIC TRAILHEAD, UH, WHERE THERE ARE OFTEN VERY, MORE THAN THE FOUR SPOTS THAT I RECALL THEY ALLOTTED FROM THEIR LAST PROPOSAL.
UM, AND ADDITIONALLY, I BELIEVE THEY ARE ATTRACTING THE TYPO TOURISTS, THAT FROM WHAT I READ IN THE PAPERS, AT LEAST THE CITY IS TRYING TO MOVE AWAY FROM, WHICH IS THE COME UP AND STAY FOR A SHORT TIME MOVE ON THROUGH, NOT STAY FOR MULTIPLE DAYS.
UM, I DON'T SEE THAT THERE'S ANY NEW ISSUES TO DISCUSS ON THIS.
UH, IT HAS NOT PASSED TO THIS POINT, UH, ON TWO APPEALS.
UM, I DON'T QUITE KNOW WHY WE'RE NOT, WHY WE'RE ENTERTAINING THIS.
BUT IN THE PAST IT WAS DEEMED NOT THE RIGHT PROJECT, NOT THE RIGHT TIME, NOT A FIT FOR SEDONA.
UM, I'LL JUST CLOSE BY SAYING THAT WE LIVE IN A UNIQUE PLACE THAT CAN SUPPORT BUSINESS, TOURISM, RESIDENTIAL LIFE.
UH, FINDING THE RIGHT FIT AND THE RIGHT BALANCE IS REALLY THE CHALLENGE.
AS I KNOW THAT YOU'RE ALL VERY WELL AWARE SINCE THE RECENT ELECTION, I'VE BEEN VERY PROUD OF THE DECISION THIS COUNCIL HAS MADE.
UM, THIS PRIOR DECISIONS ON THIS PROJECT, AS WELL AS OTHER PROJECTS THAT HAVE COME, COME ACROSS YOUR DESKS.
UM, I THINK THE QUESTION I WOULD LIKE YOU ALL TO ASK YOURSELVES, UH, IN THIS HEARING IS TODAY AND DOWN THE ROAD, WILL YOU BE PROUD OF YOUR DECISION ON THIS PROPOSAL TODAY? AND COUNCIL WILLIAMSON, YOU WANT TO ASK HIM A QUE I'D PREFER YOU WAIT UNTIL AFTER.
WE HAVE ALL THE AT THE, UH, OKAY.
I DON'T WANNA ASK HIM A CAUSE I WANNA CLARIFY SOMETHING.
BUT IF YOU COULD DO THAT AFTERWARDS, I APPRECIATE THAT.
AND THEN, UH, DANIELLE, AGAIN, YOUR NAME.
DANIEL LEWIS, 59 METEOR DRIVE, OAK CREEK KNOWLES, UM, RIGHT BESIDE THE ARABELLA ADJACENT.
UM, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME HERE AND LISTENING TO OUR COMMENTS AS A COMMUNITY.
UM, I AM SO PROUD TO BE A PART OF THE SEDONA COMMUNITY.
I CAN CRY JUST THINKING ABOUT HOW MUCH I'VE BEEN, HOW LONG I'VE BEEN A NURSE HERE AND MOVED HERE.
AND, UM, IN THE PANDEMIC, I, UM, WAS FEMA FORGOT TO LITERALLY PROVIDE A NURSE FOR YAVAPAI COUNTY TO GIVE MONOCLONAL ANTIBODIES.
I WAS THE ONE PERSON THAT, UM, VOLUNTEERED NO PAY TIME OFF, NOT NO TIME OFF, NO PAY, JUST TO GO AND SUPPORT OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS THEMSELVES AND KEEP THEM OUT OF OUR HOSPITALS.
UM, I'M JUST TRYING TO SHOW YOU LIKE THE KIND OF PERSON I AM.
I DON'T LIKE TO FIGHT WITH ANYONE.
UM, AND WHAT'S CONCERNING ME IS I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND, LIKE MY HUSBAND ITERATED AND, UM, SUZANNE AND EV, EVERYTHING, WHY WE'RE STILL HERE TALKING ABOUT THIS.
I THINK LIKE THE SEDONA STALL LOOKS LIKE IT WOULD BE PRETTY IN ANOTHER TIME PRIOR TO ALL THIS DROUGHT AND PRIOR TO ALL THE TRAFFIC CONCERNS.
AND I DON'T SEE THAT THIS TEAM, WELL, FIRST OFF, I'D LIKE TO KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN ASK A QUESTION, BUT IF I CAN OR CAN'T, I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHO AMONG THIS TEAM THAT'S BUILDING THIS ALL IS ACTUALLY A SEDONA COMMUNITY MEMBER AND LIVES HERE.
SO ONE, WELL, WE'RE GONNA ASK YOU NOT TO ASK PEOPLE QUESTIONS HERE.
BUT, UM, ANYWAY, LIKE THE THING IS, YOU CAN ASK US THE QUESTION AND WE'LL GET THE ANSWER FOR YOU.
MY POINT IS, IS THAT THESE ARE ALL NON-COMMUNITY BIG DOGS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, UM, NOT SUPPORTING OUR COMMUNITY COMMITMENT.
YOU, YOU ALL HAVE DECIDED TO CALL SEDONAS SUSTAINABLE AND BEAUTIFUL.
AND, UM, I SUPPORT, I DO SUPPORT A LOT OF, UM,
[01:20:02]
UM, COMPANIES HERE AND LOCAL COMPANIES.AND ALL THE TIME I'VE RECOMMENDED PEOPLE TO STAY AT THE ARABELLA ACTUALLY, IN FACT.
SO, UM, FRIENDS AND FAMILY AND SO ON.
SO, BUT THE PROBLEM IS, IS THAT THEY'RE ALL I SEE HERE IS THAT THE, THE COUPLE OF THINGS THAT YOU GUYS ASKED THEM TO COME BACK WITH, THEY STILL HAVEN'T IN GOOD FAITH COME BACK WITH, THEY CAME BACK WITH THEIR OWN REPORT OF ONE TINY SUBSET OF A POPULATION OF THEIR TRAFFIC, THEIR TRAFFIC ANALYSIS.
THAT'S NOT EVEN, LIKE IF I WERE TO DO, DO A RESEARCH ARTICLE, YOU WOULD CITE BIAS, YOU WOULD CITE, IT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE BECAUSE YOU DON'T, IT'S NOT INCLUDING THE END POPULATION OF 1 79 MOVING THROUGH THROUGHPUT.
UM, IT'S JUST SO, OH, I HAVE SO MUCH MORE.
FINISH, FINISH, FINISH THIS, YOUR THOUGHTS, BUT YOU CAN'T CONTINUE BEYOND THAT.
OH, FINISH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
AND THEN OTHER, THE OTHER THING THAT THEY HAVE NOT COME THROUGH FOR PER YOUR GUYS' REQUEST IS, UM, THE, UM, WATER CONSUMPTION AND EVAPORATION.
THE REPORT THAT WAS FROM DECADES AGO, CITING ANOTHER, UM, PART OF I THINK ARIZONA OR ANOTHER PART OF THE WORLD.
I'M, I'M NOT EVEN SURE, BUT IT WAS NOT ARIZONA.
OKAY, ANYBODY ELSE WISH TO SPEAK? ARE YOU SEEING NONE? I'M GOING TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
I, WE'LL BRING IT BACK TO COUNCIL.
I KNOW COUNCIL WILLIAMSON, UH, HAS, I JUST WANTED TO RESPOND TO PLEASE THE QUESTION OF WHY THIS ITEM IS BACK ON AN AGENDA.
THE CITY COUNCIL RULES OF PROCEDURE ALLOW A COUNSELOR TO REQUEST A RECONSIDERATION THAT WAS DONE IN THIS CASE, AND THAT AUTOMATICALLY BRINGS US BACK TO ANOTHER AGEN TO PUTTING IT ON ANOTHER AGENDA.
IT WASN'T ANY KIND OF, NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED.
IT'S JUST PART OF OUR PROCEDURES.
AND I APOLOGIZE, I SHOULD HAVE COUNSEL WILLIAMS ASKED MEETINGS TO SPEAK AND ADDRESS THAT.
SO, UM, SO COMMENTS, DON'T WE START ON THIS SITE? BRIAN? THANK YOU, MAYOR.
I'D ACTUALLY, I'D LIKE TO JUST START WITH A QUESTION, WHICH IS, UH, I KNOW THERE HAD BEEN A PREVIOUSLY APPROVED PROJECT ON THIS SITE, UM, AND THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, ESTIMATES OF WATER USAGE FOR THAT PROJECT, WHICH I BELIEVE WAS GOING TO BE, UH, UH, AN APARTMENT COMPLEX.
WAS IT NOT? HOW, HOW DID THAT WATER USAGE COMPARE TO WHAT'S NOW BEING PROPOSED WITH THE SPA? UM, I THINK THE APPLICANT DID SOME OF THAT ANALYSIS.
IT, WE DID NOT, IT WAS, I DO REMEMBER IT WAS SIGNIFICANTLY MORE SQUARE FOOTAGE THAN WHAT WAS BEING PROPOSED.
BUT I BELIEVE THE APPLICANT HAD SOME OF THE NUMBERS.
AND AGAIN, THIS WAS A PROJECT FROM I BELIEVE, 2008.
UM, SO IT WAS JUST KIND OF A, A, I BELIEVE THEIR ESTIMATES, YOU KNOW, NOT, THEY DIDN'T BEST GUESS BASED ON THE NUMBER OF UNITS AND SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT WAS PROPOSED.
IT WAS, IT'S ACTUALLY MORE SPECIFIC THAN THAT.
SO WE PULLED THE APPROVED PLAT FROM THE APPROVED DEVELOPMENT FROM 2008, WHICH WAS CALLED NIRVANA, WHICH INCLUDED A SPA, WHICH INCLUDED RESIDENTIAL, WHICH INCLUDED CONSIDERABLY MORE COMMERCIAL.
SO JUST FROM, FROM A NUMBERS STANDPOINT.
SO THESE, THESE WERE CALCULATIONS WERE ACTUALLY DONE BY THEIR ENGINEERS.
SO FOR THAT ONE, IT HAD A CALCULATED WATER DEMAND OF 26.72 GALLONS PER MINUTE, WHICH IS ABOUT 38,777 GALLONS PER DAY.
UM, THAT WAS AN 88,963 GROSS SQUARE FOOT DEVELOPMENT.
UM, AND OUR NUMBERS, IF YOU'LL EXCUSE ME, I CAN GET TO IT.
PROMISE YOU IT'S IN HERE SOMEWHERE.
SO, UH, BASED UPON, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT OUR, OUR WATER DEMAND REPORT AND IT, IT'S SOMEWHERE BETWEEN, AND AGAIN, WE'RE THE NUMBERS THAT WERE IN THERE, PLAT THERE WERE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT NUMBERS.
OUR DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 42% AND 71% REDUCTION IN WATER MAN COM COMPARED TO THE PREVIOUS PROJECT.
UM, NOW GIVEN OUR NEW TRIP GENERATION A 79% REDUCTION IN TRIP GENERATION RELATIVE TO THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED PLAN, UH, AND A, LIKE I SAID, AN 80% REDUCTION IN, IN GROSS SQUARE FOOTAGE, BECAUSE THE LAST ONE WAS ABOUT 89,000 IN CHANGE.
UH, MAYOR, I'LL HOLD OFF ON COMMENTS FOR
[01:25:01]
THE MOMENT.I JUST WANTED TO GET THAT QUESTION ANSWERED.
WELL, THIS IS A COMMENT PERIOD, SO THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE DOING NOW.
YOU WANT US TO COME BACK TO YOU? I CAN, ME, I CAN GO AHEAD AND, OKAY.
UM, I, YOU KNOW, I APPRECIATE THE, THE PUBLIC AND THEIR COMMENTS, UH, THIS EVENING.
UM, I TOOK A NUMBER OF NOTES BASED ON, UH, SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT WERE SHARED.
AND ONE OF THEM WAS, YOU KNOW, WATER USAGE.
AND I WANTED TO GET BACK, UH, TO THAT COMPARISON.
CAUSE I KNOW YOU PROVIDED THAT THE LAST TIME.
UM, AS FAR AS, UM, YOU KNOW, VEHICLE TRAFFIC GOES, UM, I MEAN, I, I LIVE, UH, BY THE CHAPEL AND I'M PROBABLY THE LEAST PATIENT DRIVER SITTING ON THE DIAS, I WOULD GUESS.
SO, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT THRILLED ABOUT ANYTHING THAT MIGHT CAUSE ADDITIONAL, UH, TRAFFIC ON 1 79, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S A BASIS FOR MAKING A DECISION ON THIS PROJECT.
I APPRECIATE THE RE-LOOK AT THE TRAFFIC ANALYSIS DONE BY KIMLEY HORN, AND I DON'T FEEL, UH, APPROPRIATE TO CHALLENGE THAT ANALYSIS.
THIS IS THE, UH, THE FIRM THAT WE WORK WITH ROUTINELY, INCLUDING ANDREW.
UH, SO I DON'T FEEL A NEED TO MISTRUST OR DISTRUST THAT ANALYSIS.
AND HE ALSO POINTED OUT THAT IT DID COME WITH A DOT APPROVAL.
UM, 29% COVERAGE ON THE PROPERTY STRIKES ME AS, UM, A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER GIVEN WHAT, UH, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE MIGHT OTHERWISE, UH, PROVIDE.
SO IN THE WORLD OF, GEE, THIS IS WHAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT YOU CAN GET BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.
ALMOST ANY ALTERNATIVE I CAN THINK OF IS PROBABLY LESS DESIRABLE.
AND I KNOW THAT'S NOT A NECESSARILY A COMPELLING ARGUMENT FOR THE FOLKS THAT LIVE RIGHT NEXT TO IT, BUT I THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT Y YOU SHOULD SERIOUSLY CONSIDER.
UH, THE OTHER IS, IS THAT THIS IS A STRONG PROPERTY OWNER'S RIGHTS STATE.
AND YOU KNOW, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THIS PROJECT MEETS, UH, THE REQUIREMENTS AND, YOU KNOW, FRANKLY NEEDS TO BE, UH, HAS THE RIGHT TO BE APPROVED.
UM, I THINK THERE ARE BENEFITS TO THE COMMUNITY.
UH, I THINK THAT, UH, HAVING A, A PROJECT OF THIS QUALITY THAT THE COMMUNITY CAN, UH, PARTAKE IN IS, UH, OF VALUE.
AND THEN THE LAST THING THAT I WILL SAY FOR, UH, NOW IS THE, YES, THIS HAS BEEN DENIED ALREADY, BUT IT'S BEEN UNDER THE STRANGEST OF CIRCUMSTANCES, RIGHT? BECAUSE IT WAS A THREE, THREE VOTE AT P AND Z, WE DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WOULD'VE TURNED OUT IF THE SEVENTH PERSON HAD BEEN PRESENT.
AND IT WAS A DENIAL HERE PREVIOUSLY ON A THREE THREE VOTE.
AND WE DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WOULD'VE TURNED OUT IF THE SEVENTH PERSON HAD BEEN PRESENT.
SO YES, IT'S FACTUALLY CORRECT THAT THE PROJECT HAS BEEN DENIED, UH, PREVIOUSLY, BUT I REALLY DON'T KNOW IF IT WOULD HAVE BEEN, IF ALL SEVEN HAD BEEN PARTICIPATING IN EACH OF THE PRIOR INSTANCES.
UH, OVERALL, I THINK THAT, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, FOR THE LIMITED IMPACT ON THE LAND, THE 29% COVERAGE IN PARTICULAR, UH, I, I THINK THAT THIS IS A PROJECT THAT DESERVES SUPPORT.
UM, I WON'T REITERATE WHAT COUNSELOR, UM, FOLTZ HAS SAID, BUT I AGREE WITH MANY OF HIS STATEMENTS.
UM, I THINK THAT YOU HAVE ADDRESSED WHAT I HAD HEARD IN THE TAPE AS I WAS NOT PRESENT AT THE TIME.
WHAT I HAVE HEARD IN REVIEWING THE VIDEO AS QUITE A FEW OF THE CONCERNS THAT WERE EXPRESSED BY MY FELLOW COUNSELORS AT THE TIME, I, I BELIEVE THAT YOU'RE WORKING ON SUSTAINABILITY.
I ASSUME THAT THAT INTENT IS HONEST AND REAL BECAUSE ONE JUST HAS TO ASSUME THOSE THINGS.
AND, AND SO YOU'RE WORKING ON TRYING TO GET, YOU KNOW, THE VERDE VALLEY SUSTAINABILITY YOU'RE PUTTING IN EV STATIONS.
UM, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE ON TRACK TOWARDS WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE SINGLE USE PLASTICS.
UM, THE OTHER QUESTIONS THAT HAD COME UP WAS DIVERSITY IN WHETHER OR NOT THIS PROVIDES A DIVERSE ENOUGH, UM, PROJECT.
AND I HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT WE'RE A TOURIST BASED COMMUNITY AT THIS POINT, THAT LAND WILL BE USED FOR SOMETHING PROBABLY AROUND TOURISM.
AND THAT THE TOURISM THAT YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW, THIS IS DIFFERENT.
IT'S DIFFERENT FOR THEM FROM OUR OTHER SPAS.
AND I BELIEVE IN SOME REGARDS, THIS IS VERY SEDONA, THE WHOLE, YOU KNOW, LET'S MEDITATE AND BE CALM AND RELAXED.
[01:30:01]
I THINK THAT FITS INTO OUR COMMUNITY CHARACTER, THE WAY YOU'RE DESCRIBING, UM, HOW IT WILL BE BUILT AND WHAT IT WILL LOOK LIKE, THE USE OF NATIVE PLANTS, WHICH REDUCES THE USE OF WATER, WHICH I HAVE TO SAY MANY OF OUR TOURIST BUSINESSES DO NOT TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.UM, I THINK ALL OF THOSE ARE VERY POSITIVE FOR THE COMMUNITY.
UH, I BELIEVE THAT YOU LISTENING TO, AGAIN, THE VIDEO, YOU WERE VERY RESPECTFUL FROM WHAT I COULD TELL.
AND, AND THE PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE FROM THE AREA MAY DISAGREE WITH ME BECAUSE I DON'T LIVE THERE, BUT YOU HONORED THEM.
NO EVENTS WILL BE HELD, UM, REMOVING THE CITAS OR WHATEVER YOU WERE CALLING THEM AT THE TIME.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, REMOVING THE ROOFTOP, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO BE VERY RESPECTFUL AND RE AND, UH, RESPONSIVE TO THE, TO THE LOCAL COMMUNITY.
AND I, I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT IN OUR EVENT, COMMUNITY BENEFIT.
I THINK BECAUSE IT'S UNUSUAL, IT PROVIDES US AS RESIDENTS WITH KIND OF A COOL OPPORTUNITY FOR A, A SPECIAL KIND OF EVENT, AN ANNIVERSARY OR A BIRTHDAY TO DO SOMETHING VERY DIFFERENT IN OUR COMMUNITY.
UM, AND, AND I THINK THAT THAT PROVIDES US WITH THE COMMUNITY PART OF THE COMMUNITY EVENT.
I'M NOT SURE THAT I AGREE THAT THIS IS GOING TO BRING IN MORE, UM, DAY TRIPPERS.
IT'S MEANT TO BE SORT OF A DAY LONG SORT OF, UH, EXPERIENCE.
IT IS AN EXPERIENCE AS OPPOSED TO JUST GOING IN A MASSAGE AND YOU'RE DONE.
IT'S MEANT TO BE THIS EXPERIENCE THAT MIGHT BE ATTRACTIVE TO, UM, UH, AN AUDIENCE THAT WE ARE HOPING TO ATTRACT WHERE THEY MAY COME AND THEY MAY ACTUALLY STAY AN EXTRA DAY SO THEY CAN EXPERIENCE THIS INSTEAD OF JUST GOING HIKING, DOING A PEAK JEEP TOUR AND THEN GOING HOME.
THEY MIGHT SAY, WOW, THIS WOULD BE REALLY COOL.
AND THEY MIGHT STAY AN EXTRA DAY.
AND, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE KIND OF IN THE HEART OF ONE OF OUR TWO MAIN COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS.
UM, 1 79, 1 OF THE REASONS WE HAVE A LOT OF TRAFFIC BESIDES ALL THE TRAILS ON THE OTHER SIDE IS IT IS A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT.
WE HAVE HILLSIDE, WE HAVE TAKA PAQUE, WE'VE GOT, WE'VE GOT BUSINESSES THERE.
AND THIS MIGHT BE, UM, AN ATTRACTION, AND I HATE TO USE THAT WORD, BUT AN EXPERIENCE, WE'LL GO BACK TO EXPERIENCE.
THIS MIGHT BE ONE OF THOSE EXPERIENCES THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE DONE, THEY MAY THEN CHOOSE TO GO OVER TO HILLSIDE, SHOP THE GALLERIES, YOU KNOW, HAVE SOMETHING TO EAT, MAYBE GO UP TO TAKA P**I.
AND AGAIN, THAT COULD BE BRINGING MORE MONEY IN GENERALLY TO OUR COMMUNITY.
UM, AND, AND QUITE HONESTLY, OUR COMMUNITY USES THOSE FUNDS, THE SALES TAX IN PARTICULAR, TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE POLICE AND WE HAVE GOOD ROADS, AND WE HAVE LOTS OF OTHER THINGS.
AND SO THAT SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE IS A POTENTIAL COMMUNITY BENEFIT.
OF COURSE, I CAN'T GUARANTEE ANYTHING, YOU KNOW, THAT'S GONNA BE COMPLETELY UP TO THE BUSINESS AND UP TO THE, IN THE PEOPLE WHO COME HERE.
BUT I BELIEVE THAT, THAT THEY TRY TO ANSWER, UM, AND ADDRESS A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS THAT THE COUNCIL MEMBERS HAD POSED AT THE TIME.
UH, AND SO I AM IN FAVOR OF SUPPORTING THIS PROJECT, VICE MAYOR.
I'M NOT SUPPORTING THIS PROJECT.
I FEEL THAT THE COMMUNITY SHOULD HAVE FINALITY I DISAPPROVED OF A, OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE, WHICH ALLOW THINGS TO BE RECONSIDERED BECAUSE I THINK DECISIONS SHOULD BE FINAL AND PE PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO RELY ON THEM.
AND IF YOU'RE NOT PRESENT, I DON'T THINK YOU GET ANOTHER SHOT TO COME BACK AND THEN REOPEN IT AND, AND CHANGE THE, THE THE VOTE.
UH, HAVING SAID THAT, THAT'S JUST, THAT'S ONE PIECE OF IT.
BUT IN TERMS OF THE PROJECT, I DON'T THINK THAT MY CONCERNS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED AT ALL.
I I, I STILL DO NOT ACCEPT THE NUMBER.
THE NUMBERS ARE TOO SQUIRRELY AND WE DON'T HAVE A COPY OF THEM, AND I CAN'T LOOK AT THEM.
AND I'M TOLD THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE A LEFT TURN LANE, WHICH WOULD THEN, SO ONE OF MY BIGGEST ISSUES WAS THE FACT THAT ALL THE TRAFFIC WOULD BE PUSHED OUT TO SCHLEY HILL ROAD ROUNDABOUT, BECAUSE EVERYONE WOULD HAVE TO MAKE A RIGHT TURN.
AND THAT THAT IS THE MOST CONGESTED PLACE AND ALL OF THE CITY.
AND WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD WE WANNA MAKE IT MORE CONGESTED BY HAVING MORE CARS GO THERE, BEING FORCED TO GO THERE WHEN THEY DON'T EVEN WANNA GO THERE.
THEY WANNA GO MAKE A LEFT TURN.
SO THEN I WAS TOLD THAT WE WOULD HAVE A LEFT TURN LANE, AND SO CARS WOULDN'T STACK UP, AND THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TURN LEFT WOULD BE ABLE TO GO LEFT, AND THE PEOPLE WANTED TO GO TURN RIGHT WOULD BE ABLE TO TURN RIGHT.
THAT MADE ME FEEL A LITTLE BIT BETTER, I HAVE TO SAY.
NOW I HEAR WE'RE NOT DOING THAT, SO NOW I DON'T FEEL BETTER.
UH, SO I FEELING UNCOMFORTABLE ABOUT RELYING ON INFORMATION.
[01:35:01]
ADOT APPROVES IT.AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE AS A COUNCIL SHOULD BE DEGRADING INTERSECTIONS.
AND NOW WE'RE GONNA MAKE IT A D AND ADOT MAY NOT THINK THAT THAT'S A BIG DEAL.
SO I, I CAN'T SUPPORT THIS PROJECT FOR THOSE REASONS.
AND ONE OTHER THING, SO THERE'S ONLY 300 LOCKERS OR WHATEVER THE NUMBER WAS TODAY.
WHAT STOPS PEOPLE FROM BUILDING MORE LOCKERS IN THE FUTURE? I, I DON'T SEE HOW THE, WE CAN RELY THAT THE NUMBERS WILL CONTINUE TO BE THE SAME GOING FORWARD.
AND I JUST FIND I WAS, I REALLY OBJECTED TO THAT 38%.
IT WAS MADE UP NUMBER BASED ON SOME FORMULA.
AND NOW I FEEL LIKE, HOW DO I, HOW CAN YOU SUPPORT GOING FROM 1000 TO 500 JUST AIRY FAIRY? THAT'S HOW IT FEELS TO ME.
AND THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT I DON'T RESPECT HELEY HORN BECAUSE I ABSOLUTELY DO, BUT I, IT JUST, I'M JUST REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH IT.
OH, I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING AROUND.
SO PATIENTLY I WANTED TO, OKAY.
UM, THIS PROJECT IS, FIRST OF ALL, BUSINESSES ARE PART OF OUR COMMUNITY.
THEY'RE NOT LIKE SECOND CLASS CITIZENS.
THEY ARE, THEY'RE A LEGITIMATE PART OF OUR COMMUNITY.
AND PEOPLE CAN HAVE A RIGHT TO EXPECT TO BE ABLE TO BUILD ON THEIR PROPERTY IF THEY MEET OUR REQUIREMENTS.
AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, THIS PROJECT MEETS AND EXCEEDS THE CITY'S REQUIREMENTS.
AND YET WE'RE SAYING, EVEN THOUGH IT MEETS AND EXCEEDS THE CITY'S REQUIREMENTS, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO IT ANYWAY.
AND SO I JUST DON'T THINK THAT'S FAIR.
I THINK THAT, I THINK THAT BUSINESSES AND OWNERS HAVE A RIGHT TO RELY ON CITY REGULATIONS FOR BEING.
IF I MEET THESE REGULATIONS, I'LL BE ABLE TO BUILD.
AND IF WE WANT TO CHANGE THE REGULATIONS, WE SHOULD CHANGE THE REGULATIONS.
BUT RIGHT NOW, THEY MEET THE MALL, THEY EXCEED THE MALL.
I WAS VERY, UM, HAPPY TO ABOUT THE SUSTAINABILITY.
UH, THE ADDING EV CHARGING STATIONS I THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
I RE I REALLY LIKE RETRAINING, RETAINING TREES.
I THINK THAT THAT IS SUPER IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF, OF DEVELOPMENT IN OUR COMMUNITY.
UM, A 29% LOT COVERAGE PRETTY, I THINK THAT'S PRETTY AMAZING.
UM, AND THE REDUCTION ELECTRICAL USES IN THE POOL.
AND THERE WAS THE TECH, A NEW TECHNOLOGY TO REDUCE WATER EVAPORATION, WHICH YOU TALKED ABOUT TONIGHT.
SO I THINK, I THINK THE DEVELOPER HAS MADE SIGNIFICANT EFFORTS TOWARD PUTTING THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS IN ORDER TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT WE RAISED LAST TIME.
THEY MADE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO REDUCE THE PROJECT FROM ITS ORIGINAL.
AND, UM, FROM ITS ORIGINAL CONCEPT.
AND I THINK THAT THAT'S SOMETHING TO BE REWARDED AND NOT, NOT POO-POOED.
SO, UM, FINALLY, BUSINESSES ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THE TRA ANY ONE BUSINESS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THE TRAFFIC IN SEDONA.
THEY'RE ONLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE TRAFFIC THAT THEY GENERATE.
UM, SO THO THOSE ARE THE REASONS THAT I, I HAVE HEARD NOTHING TONIGHT THAT WOULD CAUSE ME TO CHANGE MY VOTE.
AND I, I WILL SUPPORT THIS PROJECT.
SO MY CONCERNS ABOUT THIS PROJECT FROM THE LAST TIME AND STILL, UH, TODAY ARE REALLY ALL ABOUT TRAFFIC AND PARKING.
AND I QUOTE FROM THIS REPORT, 6 84 THAT I MENTIONED BEFORE, AN INTERNAL CAPTURE RATE THAT IS SET TOO HIGH UNFAIRLY PLACES BURDENS ON THE PUBLIC.
AND I BELIEVE PROJECTS SHOULD BEAR THE BURDENS THAT THEY BRING TO THE CITY AND NOT SHIFT THEM ONTO THE PUBLIC.
UH, MY READING OF 6 84 PRETTY CLEARLY TELLS ME THAT WE SHOULDN'T BE USING INTERNAL CAPTURE RATES FOR THIS KIND
[01:40:01]
OF PROJECT AT ALL.AND WHEN I THINK ABOUT THAT, THIS IS THE MOST TRAFFIC CONGESTED AREA OF OUR CITY, I WILL DON'T KNOW WHY.
WE WOULD THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA.
WE SHOULD LOOK AT A PROJECT FOR EXACTLY THE IMPACT IT'S GONNA MAKE ON OUR COMMUNITY AND, AND HAVE, UH, THE DEVELOPERS BEAR THOSE BURDENS.
LDC ALLOWS FOR, BUT DOES NOT REQUIRE INTERNAL CAPTURE RATES.
SO I DISAGREE WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO HAVE SAID IT MEETS ALL THE BURDENS.
UH, IT MEETS ALL OF THE ELEMENTS WHERE LDC IT DOES NOT.
AND THIS COUNCIL HAS IN THE RECENT PAST, OVERRODE STAFF DECISIONS ABOUT OPTIONAL ELEMENTS IN THE, IN THE LDC.
AND SO THAT'S WHERE I THINK WE ARE.
THAT'S REALLY BOILS DOWN MY CONCERN THAT WE'RE STILL USING NOW EVEN A 32% INTERNAL CAPTURE RATE.
WE SHOULD BE BEARING THE FULL, WE SHOULD BE CONSIDERING THE FULL BURDENS ON THIS PROJECT AND NOT SHIFTING THEM TO THE PUBLIC.
UM, UM, FIRST, THIS IS UNUSUAL BECAUSE US, A RECONSIDERATION USUALLY TAKES PLACE BECAUSE THERE'S SOME NEW INFORMATION THAT WAS LEFT OUT AT THE INITIAL TIME OF A REVIEW.
UH, THIS IS UNIQUE BECAUSE THIS IS COMING FORWARD BECAUSE OF, THERE WAS A DEADLOCK, THERE WAS A DEADLOCK AT P AND Z AND THERE WAS A DEADLOCK HERE.
SO I THINK IT'S GOOD THAT THIS IS BEING RESOLVED, BUT I THINK IT'S UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE THE FACT THAT IT'S BEING REVIEWED INDICATES I THINK SOMETIMES TO THE PUBLIC THAT THERE IS SOME NEW INFORMATION AND THERE'S REALLY NOT HERE, OR THERE MAY BE, BUT WE DON'T KNOW THAT.
AND I'LL GET TO THAT COMMENT IN A MOMENT.
UM, BUT IT, IT'S MISLEADING, I THINK THE CIRCUMSTANCES HERE.
SO I JUST WANTED TO PUT THAT OUT THERE BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S VERY UNCOMFORTABLE TO DO THIS THIS WAY WHEN I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WARRANTS THAT IT WOULD'VE BEEN HEARD UNLESS THERE HAD BEEN A DEADLOCK.
AND TO ME, THAT'S NOT ENOUGH OF THE INFORMATION.
THE FACT THAT THIS CAME BACK IN, UH, IT, IT, IT, IT SEEMS MISLEADING TO THE PUBLIC.
UM, ANOTHER THING I WANT TO ADDRESS AS WELL IS THAT THERE WERE STATEMENTS THAT THIS MEETS THE CRITERIA, UH, PUT FORTH.
AND WHY WOULD WE BE REVIEWING SOMETHING WHEN IT DOES, THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO GO AHEAD, BUT IT DOESN'T, THE CRITERIA IS THAT IT NEEDED A DEVELOPMENT REVIEW.
THAT'S THE CRITERIA, RIGHT? UNDER THE PLANNING AND ZONING PROCESS.
IT GOES TO P AND Z FOR DEVELOPMENT REVIEW ON WHICH A RECOMMENDATION IS MADE.
UM, SO I MEAN, AND THAT, THAT PROCESS TOOK PLACE AS IT SHOULD, JUST BECAUSE THERE WASN'T A DEFINITIVE ANSWER BASED ON THERE BEING A DEADLOCK DOESN'T MEAN THAT THIS SHOULD NOT, THAT THIS MEETS THINGS.
IT DID NOT MEET BECAUSE THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW WOULD HAVE ANSWERED THAT THRESHOLD OF REQUIRED REVIEW.
UM, ALSO WHEN SOMETHING IS RECONSIDERED, UH, AS I SAID, I'D GET BACK TO THIS POINT, THERE'S USUALLY NEW INFORMATION, BUT NEW INFORMATION HAS NOT BEEN OFFICIALLY SUBMITTED HERE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S BEEN ALLUDED TO AND VERBALLY SAID THAT THERE'S A CAPTURE RATE THAT IS CHANGED AND THERE'S A TRAFFIC ANALYSIS THAT WAS REVIEWED BY ADOT, YOU KNOW, BUT WE DON'T HAVE IT.
UM, AND, AND TO HAVE AN ANSWER TO SAY, WELL, IF YOU HAVE NEW INFORMATION, GREAT.
THAT'S WHAT ARE THIS RECONSIDERATION IS FOR.
GIVE US THE INFORMATION AND SAY, WELL, WE DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WOULD BE RECONSIDERED OR NOT, THEREFORE WE DON'T HAVE IT TO GIVE TO YOU.
THAT'S NOT A SUFFICIENT ANSWER TO ME.
UM, IF YOU KNEW THIS WAS ON THE AGENDA, YOU'RE HERE, UM, THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN INFORMATION, EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE IT AHEAD OF TIME, CUZ YOU DIDN'T KNOW HOW THIS WOULD GO, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PREPARED TO BE DISTRIBUTED FOR ANALYSIS.
WE CAN'T HAVE AN IN-DEPTH DISCUSSION BECAUSE INFORMATION HAS NOT REALLY BEEN PROVIDED.
SO BASED ON, ON THAT, I HAVE NOTHING THAT ADDRESSES THE CONCERNS THAT I STATED AT THE JANUARY 25TH MEETING.
UM, WHICH INCLUDED THE, THE TRAFFIC ANALYSIS IS NOT THERE.
IT HASN'T BEEN, NOW WE HEAR THAT THERE MIGHT BE ONE, BUT THAT IT WASN'T GIVEN TO STAFF.
BUT I STILL DON'T HAVE IT TO CONSIDER.
SO MY QUESTIONS REMAIN, UH, AGAIN, THE ADOT REVIEW.
UH, YOU HAVE INFORMATION FROM ADOT, BUT IS IT OFFICIAL INFORMATION? IS THERE A WRITTEN CORRESPONDENCE BACK OR WAS THIS JUST A CONVERSATION? I DON'T HAVE IT.
I DON'T HAVE A COPY TO LOOK AT.
THAT WOULD BE IN A NORMAL PACKAGE THAT I WOULD BE REVIEWING.
UM, THE, UH, THE LEFT HAND TURN LANE.
AGAIN, I WAS TOLD IN A MEETING THAT THERE WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD ADDRESS CONCERN
[01:45:01]
BECAUSE I AGREE.I THINK IT WAS VERY WELL STATED BY THE VICE MAYOR, THE CONCERNS I HAVE ABOUT THE CONGESTION ON 1 79.
AND I AGREE WITH OUR, UM, ASSISTANT, UM, CITY MANAGER AND ENGINEER THAT YEAH, IT SHOULDN'T BE DONE WITHOUT A REVIEW.
AND AGAIN, WHERE'S THE REVIEW? I DON'T HAVE IT EITHER WAY.
IF IT SHOULD HAPPEN, IF IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN, SHOULD BE PART OF THE APPLICATION INFORMATION THAT WE'RE CONSIDERING.
IT'S NOT, THAT'S A PROBLEM FOR ME.
I WOULD NEED A STUDY ON THAT BECAUSE WHETHER OR NOT TO HAVE A LEFT HAND TURN LANE AND A STACKING LANE, UM, FOR THE RIGHT HAND TURNS IS SOMETHING I'D LIKE TO CONSIDER.
UM, THE INTERNAL CAPTURE THAT WAS GONE FROM NOW, 38% TO POTENTIALLY AS A SPA GETS MORE POPULAR COULD BE 42%.
WELL, WHAT'S THAT BASED ON? UH, WHERE'S THE DATA THAT SHOWS WHAT YOU ANTICIPATE THE POPULARITY TO BE AND GAIN THAT LEADS TO THAT NUMBER? THERE'S NO NEW INFORMATION THAT I'VE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THAT GIVES ME ANY CAUSE TO CHANGE MY POSITION FROM THE 25TH.
SO THEREFORE, UM, I CAN'T SUPPORT THE PROJECT.
SO I WANNA GO OVER SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE ASKED BY THE AUDIENCE, UH, OR COMMENTS, UH, A DENNIS WHO WAS CONCERNED ABOUT RETALIATION AND FOR SPEAKING OUT IF THE PROJECT FAILED.
UH, I HATE THAT YOU, YOU SAID THAT, THAT YOU WOULD EVER FEEL THAT WAY, UH, SHOULD THAT EVER HAPPEN? THERE ARE WAYS THAT THAT COULD BE MITIGATED AND I HOPE THAT YOU WOULD, UH, ONE, CALL THE POLICE TWO, UH, CALL ONE OF THE COUNSELORS HERE ON THE DAIS.
UH, BUT THAT'S TOTALLY UP TO YOU.
I'VE NEVER HEARD OF THAT HAPPENING HERE.
IT IS A SMALL TOWN, AND EVEN IF THE PROJECT FAILED BOTH OF THE, THE ATTORNEY AND KIMLEY HORN, THEY DO BUSINESS HERE ALL THE TIME FOR THEM TO DO THAT WOULD BE UNCONSCIONABLE.
UH, TO WHOEVER ASKED ABOUT, UM, IT WOULD BE NICE, YOU KNOW, NOBODY, NONE OF THE PEOPLE HERE OR NONE THE NONE OF THE APPLICANT ARE LOCAL TO SEDONA.
WELL, IT WOULD BE NICE IF THEY WERE, WE CAN'T DICTATE WHO, WHO BUILDS AND WHO DOESN'T BUILD THE PROJECT HAS TO BE ON THE PROJECT AND THE MERITS OF THE PROJECT.
UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST, THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT GOES.
UH, I DON'T AGREE WITH, UH, UH, WHOEVER SPOKE ABOUT DAY TRIPPERS THAT THIS IS THE PROJECT IS GONNA BRING, BRING DAY TRIPPERS.
I THINK COUNCIL DUNN, UH, ALLUDED TO IT QUITE NICELY, WHERE THIS IS PROBABLY A, A HIGH END RESORT, UH, SPA.
IT'S NOT A COME IN, GET A MASSAGE AND LEAVE 20 MINUTES OR A HALF AN HOUR, 45 MINUTES LATER.
THIS IS AN ALL DAY EVENT OR MOST OF THE DAY EVENT, UH, VERY HIGH END.
AND I THINK THAT IT WILL ATTRACT PEOPLE WHO WILL THEN STAY AT THE HOTEL.
UH, I DID SUPPORT THIS PROJECT AND I STILL DO SUPPORT THIS PROJECT.
UH, IUP SUPPORT SUPPORTED THE LAST MEETING.
UH, I WAS SATISFIED WITH ANDREW'S REPORT AND, BUT NOW THAT ANDREW REPORTED THAT, UH, ADOT, YOU KNOW, SUPPORTS THE PROJECT, TO ME THAT MEANS A LOT.
IS IT THE FULL REPORT THAT WE SHOULD HAVE FROM ADOT OR FROM, UH, FROM KIMLEY HORN? NO, UH, BUT WE, I THINK THE VICE MAYOR SAID IT THAT WE WORK WITH KIMLEY HORN.
THEY ARE HIGHLY RESPECTED BY US AND TO ME, UH, IT MAY NOT BE IDEAL, BUT IT, HE DID, UH, SPEAK THAT, UH, ADOT DID SUPPORT THE PROJECT.
UM, ANDREW, CAN YOU COME UP TO THE MIC PLEASE? SOMETHING THAT THE VICE MAYOR SAID THAT I, UH, I WAS A LITTLE CONFUSED AT, UH, THAT ARE THE CARS EXITING THE SOUNDBAR LANE REQUIRED TO MAKE A RIGHT TURN? ONLY TO BE GOING THROUGH THE NO, THE ROUNDABOUT, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE A HUGE PROBLEM FOR ME.
YEAH, YOU CAN MAKE A LEFT IF YOU GET A GAP.
YES, THAT'S, BUT, UH, I UNDERSTAND THAT.
UM, BUT I WOULD, I JUST WANTED TO BE SURE THAT THAT WAS NOT WAS IT CONSIDERED, WE'RE CONSIDERED IT AT ALL.
WE'RE NOT PUTTING A PORK CHOP IN TO MAKE 'EM TURN RIGHT.
IT'S A, IT'S A FULL, UH, RIGHT OUT, LEFT OUT.
WAS THERE CONSIDERATION AT ALL TO, TO FORCE CAUSER TO THE RIGHT? NO.
FOR THE VERY REASON WE TALKED LAST TIME ABOUT OVERLOADING THAT ROUNDABOUT.
I JUST WANTED TO BE SURE I UNDERSTOOD IT.
THAT'S ALL I, UNLESS ANYONE ELSE WOULD LIKE TO ASK ANDREW, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS WHILE HE'S UP THERE? NO.
UM, DO YOU WANT A MOTION? YES, I WOULD LIKE A MOTION.
I MOVE TO, THIS IS THE RIGHT ONE, RIGHT, KURT? THE SECOND ONE I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER A P P E 22
[01:50:01]
DASH 0 0 0 0 3 APPEAL, THEREBY REVERSING PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION'S.DENIAL OF CASE NUMBER PZ 21 DASH 0 0 0 0 9 D.
DEV ARABELLA, SPELL SPA AT 95.
SO BART LANE, BASED ON COMPLIANCE WITH ALL ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS OF L D C, SECTION 8.3 AND 8.4, AND SATISFACTION OF THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW FINDINGS AND APPLICABLE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REQUIREMENTS IS OUTLINED IN THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION STAFF REPORT, WHICH STAFF REPORT IS HEREBY ADOPTED AS THE FINDINGS OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL.
BUT WHERE WITH THE FOUR TO THREE? WHO ARE THE FOUR? 1, 2, 3, 4.
I JUST WANNA BE, MAKE SURE I GOT THIS RIGHT.
COULD BREATHE A BREAK? UH, YEAH, LET ME JUST, THANK YOU.
UH, WOULD COUNCIL BE OPPOSED TO, OR IS AGREEING TO, UH, AGREE A BREAK RIGHT NOW? OKAY, THANK YOU.
WE HAVE ANY, UH, EXCUSE? IS IT STREAMING NOW? ANY CAFFEINE? THAT COULD BE A PROBLEM.
IT COULD BE TEST, TEST CONNECTION.
RIGHT NOW THE LAST ONE WAS JUST LEAVE HOLLY.
[8.c. AB 2937 Public hearing/discussion/possible action regarding proposed revisions to the Sedona Land Development Code. The proposed revisions include revisions to better reflect the intent of the Code and goals of the Sedona Community Plan, typographical, clerical and other corrections, changes for purposes of clarification, and elimination of redundancies. Case Number: PZ23-00002 (LDC) Applicant: City of Sedona]
ITEM ITEM H C, PUBLIC HEARING DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING PROPOSAL.PROPOSED RE, UH, REVISIONS TO THES LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
THE PROPOSED REVISIONS INCLUDE REVISIONS TO BETTER REFLECT THE INTENT OF THE CODE AND GOALS OF, OF THE SIT COMMUNITY, PLAN, TYPOGRAPHICAL, CLERICAL, AND OTHER CORRECTIONS CHANGES FOR A PURPOSE OF CLARIFICATION AND ELIMINATION OF REDUNDANCIES.
CASE NUMBER PZ 23 DASH 0 0 0 0 2 LDC.
SO CARRIE, I BET YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SHARE WITH US.
I, SO I DON'T HAVE ANY SLIDES OR ANYTHING, BUT I HAVE SOME, SOME WORDS TO SHARE WITH YOU.
AND THEN, UM, WE CAN DISCUSS, UM, THE, THE CHANGES.
AND SO JUST, UM, AS A WAY OF INTRODUCTION, THIS AGENDA ITEM DOES ALLOW FOR DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING THE PROPOSED LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENTS.
UM, AS STATED IN THE AGENDA BILL, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENTS ARE BROUGHT FORWARD FROM TIME TO TIME TO REF, YOU KNOW, TO UPDATE BASED ON CHANGING CONDITIONS WITHIN THE CITY TO CORRECT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SOME REDUNDANCIES OR ERRORS THAT ARE FOUND IN THE CODE.
AND JUST TO GENERALLY CLEAN IT UP.
UM, JUST SO YOU KNOW WHAT THE PROCESS IS, THE, THE, UM, POTENTIAL CHANGES ARE IDENTIFIED BY, UM, EITHER STAFF MEMBERS OR COUNCIL MEMBERS OR THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.
AND THEN WE GO THROUGH A VETTING AND REVIEW PROCESS, UM, WHERE WE KIND OF RUN THEM BY THE DIFFERENT STAFF MEMBERS, UM, CITY ATTORNEY, DIFFERENT CITY MANAGER, THE DIFFERENT PEOPLE JUST TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE'S ON BOARD WITH, UM, THE DIRECTION, UM, THAT THOSE ARE GOING IN.
AND THEN WE EVENTUALLY GET TO THE LIST THAT, UM, ENDS UP BEING PROPOSED.
MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC CANNOT SUBMIT, DIRECTLY, SUBMIT, UM, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CHANGES.
SO LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CHANGES.
YOU'RE ALWAYS GONNA SEE THE CITY OF SONSONA AS THE APPLICANT FOR THEM.
BUT A NUMBER OF THE CHANGES COME THROUGH OUR INTERACTIONS WITH THE PUBLIC.
UM, AS WE HAVE MEETINGS AND, YOU KNOW, FOR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT STAFF, AS WE'RE MEETING WITH PEOPLE ABOUT HOW THEY'RE MIGHT BE DESIGNING A HOUSE AND THEY BRING UP, OH, YOU KNOW, THIS IS, THIS IS A DIFFICULT THING.
THIS ISN'T REASONABLE ANYMORE.
WE, WE GET IDEAS FROM THAT PROCESS.
WE GET IDEAS, LIKE I SAID, FROM COUNCIL AND, YOU KNOW, THROUGH KAREN, UM, WHERE, YOU KNOW, THOSE OFTEN COME FROM YOUR INTERACTIONS WITH THE PUBLIC AS WELL.
THERE'S NO LIMIT TO WHAT WE, THE NUMBER OF CODE CHANGES
[01:55:01]
AND THERE'S NO LIMIT TO THE TIMING ON THEM.THEY'RE NOT LIKE A MAJOR COMMUNITY PLAN AMENDMENT WHERE WE'RE LIMITED TO ONCE YEAR OR ANYTHING.
BUT WE DO TRY TO BRING THEM TOGETHER OR FORWARD IN GROUPS SO THAT YOU'RE NOT FEELING LIKE WE'RE PIECEMEALING WHERE EVERY MONTH WE'RE HERE WITH A DIFFERENT TWO OR THREE ITEMS. WE, WE DO TRY TO GROUP THEM TOGETHER SO YOU CAN LOOK AT THE WHOLE OF THE CHANGES THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED.
UM, ANY CHANGES THAT GO GET APPROVED BY COUNCIL WOULD GO INTO EFFECT 30 DAYS AFTER ADOPTION.
UM, AND SO IF SOMEONE IS OUT THERE AND THEY HAVE A PROJECT THAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE IMPACTED BY A CODE CHANGE, THEY HAVE 30 DAYS TO SUBMIT THAT APPLICATION AND GET IN, UM, TO BE REVIEWED UNDER THE EXISTING CODE.
UM, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE WENT THROUGH A VERY THOROUGH AND VERY COMPLETE REWRITE IN 2018, AND THOSE ADOPTED AT THE END OF 2018.
AND THEN, UM, IN THE YEAR SINCE AS WE WORKED WITH THE CODE, UM, WE'VE BROUGHT FORWARD, UM, EACH YEAR, 20 19, 20 20 AND 21, BROUGHT FORWARD CHANGES AS WE WORK THROUGH IT AND SAY, OH, THESE DON'T QUITE MESH TOGETHER.
UM, OBVIOUSLY WE'VE BEEN A COUPLE YEARS SINCE WE DID A CODE CHANGE BECAUSE AS WE GET FURTHER AWAY FROM THAT INITIAL ADOPTION, WE'RE NOW ALL OF THE KIND OF KINKS HAVE BEEN WORKED OUT AND WE'RE NOW MORE LOOKING AT, UM, CHANGING CIRCUMSTANCES IN THE COMMUNITY RATHER THAN MAKING A LOT OF CLERICAL CHANGES THAT WERE FOUND AFTER THAT FIRST MAJOR REWRITE.
SO THAT'S KIND OF THE PROCESS OF HOW WE GOT TO WHERE WE ARE.
UM, THE LIST OF PROPOSED CHANGES WAS PROVIDED IN YOUR COUNCIL PACKET, BUT I DID JUST WANNA HIGHLIGHT A COUPLE COUPLE THINGS.
UM, SO OHVS, UM, THERE'S A NUMBER OF CHANGES IN THERE ABOUT PARKING FOR OHVS.
UM, WE KNOW THAT OHVS ARE AN ISSUE OF POTENTIAL CONTENTION IN THE COMMUNITY, AND A LOT OF THE, THE THINGS THAT WE HEAR ARE NOT NECESSARILY THINGS THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CAN UPDATE OR CAN ADDRESS.
SO WE CAN'T LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THEM ON FOREST SERVICE LAND OR USE OF THE STREETS AND THAT SORT OF THING.
WE LOOK AT HOW THE PROPERTY, WHERE THE BUSINESSES OPERATOR USED.
AND SO WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT THAT, THE ONE THING THAT WE DIDN'T IDENTIFY, UM, WAS MAKING SURE THAT THE BUSINESSES THEMSELVES HAD ENOUGH PARKING FOR CUSTOMERS.
WE WERE SEEING, UM, SOME OF THAT PARKING OVERFLOW ONTO SIDE STREETS OR INTO NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES AND HAVING IMPACTS THERE.
AND SO RE-LOOKING AT HOW WE LOOK AT WHAT PARKING IS REQUIRED FOR OHB BUSINESSES WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE, THAT WE DID WITH THIS.
UM, AND SO WHAT WE HAD PROPOSED TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION WAS A REQUIREMENT OF ESSENTIALLY ONE PARKING SPACE FOR EACH VEHICLE RENTED.
UM, THEY HAD A A, SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT.
THEY THOUGHT THAT THAT SEEMED A LITTLE HIGH.
UH, WE MIGHT HAVE, YOU KNOW, TWO COUPLES ARRIVE IN ONE CAR AND RENT TWO OHVS AND GO FROM THERE.
SO THEIR RECOMMENDATION WAS FOR ONE SPACE FOR EACH ONE AND A HALF OHVS, UM, TO KIND OF SOME THOUGHT ONE, THE ONE-TO-ONE WAS FINE, SOME THOUGHT ONE TO TWO.
SO THEY WENT TO ONE AND A HALF IN THEIR RECOMMENDATION, BUT ALSO PART OF THEIR RECOMMENDATION WAS THAT THEY REQUESTED THAT STAFF, UM, DO A LITTLE BIT MORE RESEARCH AND THEN PRESENT THAT TO PLAN OR TO THE COUNCIL AS PART OF THIS PRESENTATION.
AND SO WE TRIED, UM, WE ONLY FOUND ONE COMMUNITY, UM, THAT HAD SPECIFIC OHB PARKING REQUIREMENTS THAT WAS MOAB, UTAH.
UM, AND WHEN WE FIRST TALKED TO THEM AND WHAT WAS REFLECTED IN THE AGENDA BILL WAS IT WAS A ONE-TO-ONE RATIO.
UM, WE ACTUALLY HAD, I ACTUALLY HAD A QUITE LONG DISCUSSION WITH THEIR PLANNING DIRECTOR THIS MORNING.
UM, SO I'M SORRY I WASN'T ABLE TO GET THIS INFORMATION OUT TO YOU EARLIER, BUT THERE WAS A LOT OF TRYING TO JUST ORGANIZE THAT AND THEY DO HA BASICALLY WHAT WE FOUND IS THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH A LOT OF THE SAME THINGS THAT THEY ARE.
AND, UM, JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS THE RIGHT NUMBER.
AND SO WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING AT AS AN APPROACH THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT CAPACITY OF VEHICLES TO BE RENTED VERSUS, UH, THEY SAID THEIR TOUR COMPANY SEE AN AVERAGE OF FOUR PEOPLE ARRIVE IN A PASSENGER VEHICLE.
SO IF YOU HAVE, IF YOU'RE RENTING OUT SIDE BY SIDES THAT HAVE TWO SEATS, THEN IT'S LIKE ONE SPACE FOR EVERY TWO OF THOSE.
BUT IF IT'S A FOUR SEATER, IT'S ONE TO ONE.
IF IT'S A MOTORCYCLE, IT'S A ONE TO FOUR RATIO.
AND SO THERE'S A WHOLE, UM, SYSTEM THAT THEY HAVE GOING, BUT AGAIN, THEY'RE IN THE SAME SITUATION THAT WE ARE.
WHEREAS THIS IS EXISTING BUSINESSES BECOME LEGAL NONCONFORMING, AND SO THEY'RE LOOKING AT ENFORCING IT WITH EXPANSIONS OF EXISTING BUSINESSES OR NEW BUSINESSES.
SO IT JUST TAKES A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TO SEE IF IT'S WORKING.
AND AGAIN, THEY ADMITTED THAT THEY DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE ALL THE RIGHT ANSWERS, BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE TRYING.
[02:00:01]
SO THE, AND, BUT THEY HAVE AN ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW PROCESS THERE.UM, WHAT WE ARE RECOMMENDING IS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IN THE COMMERCIAL ZONES.
UM, I KNOW THERE'S BEEN SOME, OUR RECOMMENDATION WAS IT BE A PERMITTED USE IN THE INDUSTRIAL ZONES.
I KNOW THERE WAS SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER IT SHOULD BE A C U P EVERYWHERE.
UM, AND SO WE COULD GO WITH THE ONE-TO-ONE, WHICH IS WHAT STAFF'S ORIGINAL RECOMMENDATION WAS.
WE COULD GO WITH THE ONE AND A HALF TO ONE, WHICH WAS P AND Z'S RECOMMENDATION, OR WE COULD GO WITH, UM, KIND OF THE MORE COMPLICATED, LIKE WHAT KIND OF VEHICLES, HOW MANY SEATS AND ALL OF THAT.
THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE REVIEWED THROUGH THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT PROCESS.
AND IT WOULD, YOU KNOW, THE PARKING REQUIREMENT WOULD REALLY RELY ON WHAT THE MAKEUP OF THEIR FLEET IS.
UM, ANYTHING THAT WE DO, UM, AND I'M ASSUMING THIS WILL BE A CONVERSATION THAT THE COUNCIL HAS, BUT ANYTHING THAT WE DO, WE WILL OF COURSE CONTINUE TO MONITOR IT, DETERMINE IF IT'S THE RIGHT RATIO, AND IF NOT, WE WOULD BE BRINGING BACK ANOTHER CHANGE AS WE TRY TO FINESSE EXACTLY WHAT, UM, IS THE RIGHT, UM, REQUIREMENT.
TRYING TO BALANCE NOT WANTING TO OVER PARK AND OVERBUILD PARKING, BUT ALSO WANTING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE, UM, REQUIRING THESE BUSINESSES TO ADDRESS THEIR DEMAND AND NOT HAVE, UM, THOSE IMPACTS ON THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES.
CARRIE, JUST ONE QUESTION FROM THE DAY COUNCIL, FOLTZ, FOLTZ AND, AND THANK YOU MAYOR.
AND BEFORE I ASK THAT, MAYOR, WHAT'S OUR PROCESS GONNA BE? CUZ THERE'S A LOT OF CHANGES HERE.
WE'RE JUST GETTING INTO ONE TOPICAL AREA, RIGHT? H HOW DO WE FORESEE PROCEEDING THROUGH THIS? EXCUSE ME, CAN WE GO BACK? TOPIC? WHY DON'T WE, IS CARRIE THAT WORK WITH YOU? YEAH.
SO, I MEAN, IF, IF I CAN STOP NOW AND WE CAN CAN JUMP BACK INTO MY REMARKS LATER.
IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT OHVS RIGHT NOW WHILE IT'S, YEAH.
LET'S WAIT WHILE IT'S FRESH AND RAISE MIND.
SO WHY DON'T, BRIAN, WHY DON'T YOU GO FIRST? THANK YOU MAYOR.
UH, AND THIS MIGHT BE A KURT QUESTION.
SO ASSUMING WE, UH, CHANGE, UH, LDC, LET'S JUST SAY WE TAKE IT AS HAS BEEN PRESENTED, UM MM-HMM.
UM, IF, IF ONE OF THOSE RENTAL COMPANIES CHANGES THE NUMBER OF RENTAL UNITS AVAILABLE, DOES THAT CREATE A TRIGGER FOR ENFORCEMENT OF THE NEW CODE? SO, I MEAN, IT DEPENDS ON THE, THE AMOUNT, BUT THEY, YEAH.
ANY, THEY, THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO AMEND OR CHANGE OR EXPAND, UM, LEGAL NONCONFORMING USES.
SO, SO DO WE KNOW, SORRY, GO AHEAD.
WE DO HAVE A, A, A DECENT COUNT, UM, THROUGH THE TENANT OCCUPANCY PERMITS OF WHAT THEY CURRENTLY HAVE.
SO I WOULD SAY THAT, UM, OVER THE PAST, YOU KNOW, AS OHVS HAVE BEEN ON TOP OF EVERYONE'S MIND, WE'VE GONE THROUGH AND MADE SURE THAT ALL OF THE OHV COMPANIES ARE COMPLIANT WITH WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY APPROVED, OR THAT THEY HAVE AN AMENDED, UM, OCCUPANCY PERMIT.
SO WE HAVE PRETTY GOOD RECORDS.
THE ONE THING I WOULD SAY IS THAT WE HAVE NEVER ASKED FOR THE NUMBER OF VEHICLES.
WE HAVE ASKED FOR THE AREA IN WHICH THEY ARE STORING VEHICLES, UM, BECAUSE THE, THOSE, THE AREA, THEIR OUTDOOR VEHICLE DISPLAY HAVE CERTAIN SETBACKS AND SCREENING REQUIREMENTS.
SO THEY HAVE HAD TO IDENTIFY ON THEIR SITE PLANS, THE AREA THAT THEY ARE STORING VEHICLES IN.
WE HAVE NEVER ASKED FOR THE NUMBER OF VEHICLES, BUT OBVIOUSLY THOSE CONSTRAINTS ON AREA ARE GONNA HAVE CONSTRAINTS ON THE NUMBER OF VEHICLES.
SO IF THEY COME IN AND WE GO OUT AND SAY, OKAY, YOU'RE, YOU'RE GOING BEYOND THAT AREA, YOU NEED, YOU NEED TO GET BACK INTO THE AREA, OR YOU WOULD NEED TO APPLY FOR AN AMENDMENT UNDER THE NEW CODE.
NUMBER OF VEHICLES FOR RENT, RIGHT? NOT NUMBER OF VEHICLES FOR PARKING.
AND SO WHAT THEY'VE HAD TO DO IS PROVIDE A SITE PLAN OF THEIR PROPERTY SAYING, HERE'S WHERE THE VEHICLES ARE GOING TO BE STORED, AND WE MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE MEETING THE SCREENING LANDSCAPING SETBACK REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT AREA, AND THEN THEY SHOW PARKING ON THE REST OF THEIR SITE AND THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO STORE THEIR RENTAL VEHICLES IN THEIR REQUIRED PARKING SPACES.
UM, AND SO WE'VE JUST, WE'VE NEVER HAD A REQUIREMENT THAT WAS BASED ON THE NUMBER OF VEHICLES, SO WE'VE NEVER STORED THE NUMBER OF VEHICLES.
UM, OBVIOUSLY IF SOMETHING LIKE THIS WERE ADOPTED, THAT WOULD CHANGE OUR PROCESS AND THEN IT WOULD CHANGE AS THEY COME IN.
IF THEY GO BEYOND THAT AREA THAT THEY'VE, THEY'VE IDENTIFIED ON THE SITE PLAN, UM, THEY WOULD NEED TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE WITH THE NEW RULES.
SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S A NEED FOR MORE STRUCTURE BEHIND ENFORCEMENT HERE, AND IT ALSO SOUNDS LIKE ENFORCEMENT WILL BECOME AN INCREASINGLY COMPLEX MATTER POTENTIALLY.
AND SO, LIKE I SAID, WE'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK OVER THE PAST COUPLE YEARS TO DOCUMENT WHAT IS
[02:05:01]
OUT THERE AND WHAT IS ACTUALLY ALLOWED, UM, WHERE THEY ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE THE VEHICLES, WHERE THEY HAVE THE STORAGE, WHERE THEY HAVE THE RIGHT SCREENING AND SETBACKS AND ALL OF THAT.SO WE HAVE PRETTY GOOD RECORDS.
UM, JUST NU WE JUST DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ON THE NUMBER OF VEHICLES EACH COMPANY HAS.
WHEN, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT SCREENING, LIKE WHAT IS THAT AT THE ROAD? IS THAT ALONG THE SIDES? THE BACK? WHAT, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? UM, ALL OF THEM.
UM, AND SO THERE ARE SETBACKS THAT ARE REQUIRED.
UM, EVERY TIME I HAVE TO READ THE CODE, I DO NOT HAVE THIS SECTION OF THE CODE MEMORIZED BECAUSE IT'S SHOCKING.
UM, SO THERE'S SETBACKS FROM THE ROAD, THERE'S ALSO SETBACKS FROM RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES, UM, AND THEN THERE'S SCREENING REQUIREMENTS AND THOSE, YOU CAN KIND OF SEE SOME OF THE EVOLUTION OF THAT OVER TIME.
LIKE THE NEWER BUSINESSES HAVE A LITTLE DIFFERENT SCREENING THAN SOME OF THE OLDER BUSINESSES.
UM, AND THEN THE LAST CODE UPDATE, WE REQUIRED AN ACTUAL WALL BECAUSE THE LANDSCAPING WASN'T QUITE ACHIEVING THE DESIRED AESTHETIC, UM, RESULT.
THE PE THE PEOPLE WOULD LET THEIR BUSHES DIE, UM, AND NOT PROVIDE THE SCREENING.
SO, AND SORRY FOR, MAYBE THIS IS GETTING A LITTLE INTO THE WEEDS, BUT IT GETS TO THE POINT OF ENFORCEMENT DOWN THE ROAD.
SO YOU TAKE THE EXAMPLE OUT HERE WHERE BARLOW'S JEEP RENTAL IS, AND THE LANDLORD HAS GIVEN SOME OF THAT, UH, PARKING LOT TO THE OHV RENTAL COMPANY.
AND SO NOW YOU'VE GOT OHVS SEEMINGLY PARKED RIGHT UP AGAINST THE SIDEWALK.
UM, I BELIEVE WE APPROVED IT AS NO CHANGES FROM THE PREVIOUS ONE.
SO THAT'S ONE WE'VE BEGUN TO LOOK AT.
BUT THERE'S ALSO, WE WERE, UM, LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, CHANGES TOO.
AND SO HOW MUCH ENFORCEMENT DO WE DO UNDER THE OLD CODE VERSUS WHETHER, YOU KNOW, IF WHETHER WE WAIT FOR THE NEW CODE OR IF THEY YEAH.
SO THERE'S, IT'S, IT'S A MORE RECENT ONE.
UM, OBVIOUSLY THE BARLOW'S JEEP HAS BEEN THERE FOREVER, SO THEY DO HAVE SOME NON-CONFORMING RIGHTS, BUT MAYBE NOT TO EXPAND IN THE WAY THAT THEY HAVE.
UM, AND, BUT IT'S NOT BARLOWS WELL, SO LEGAL NONCONFORMING USES RUN WITH THE LAND MM-HMM.
AND SO WHETHER IT'S BARLOWS, WHETHER IT'S CARIES, WHETHER IT'S WHOEVER, IT'S THE USE OF THE PROPERTY AS A A VEHICLE RENTAL BUSINESS AND THAT'S WHERE THEY CAN PUT THEIR RENTALS.
AND SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY TIED TO THE BUSINESS AS TIED TO THE PROPERTY.
SO, UM, I KNOW OF ONE LOCATION THAT, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S STILL GOING ON, BUT THERE WAS AN ISSUE WHERE THE, THE CUSTOMER WOULD COME IN, THEY WOULD TAKE THE, THE, THE CUSTOMER IN AN OHV DRIVE THEM UP TO POSSE GROUNDS FOR THEIR CAR, THAT'S WHERE THEY WERE PARKING THEIR CARS MM-HMM.
IS THAT STILL GOING ON? I'M NOT GONNA MENTION THE LOCATION, BUT, UM, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THAT IS NOT, UM, BUT AGAIN, THIS IS AN ONGOING ENFORCEMENT THING WHERE WE GO OUT, WE SAY, HERE'S WHAT YOU WERE ALLOWED TO DO.
YOU NEED TO, YOU KNOW, REIGN IT BACK IN.
YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE ALL THESE SPACES ARE AVAILABLE, PARKING, AND THEN IT'S SLOWLY OVER TIME JUST CREEPS UP.
WHICH IS WHY ONE OF, WE, WE SPENT QUITE A BIT OF TIME GETTING SITE PLANS, BETTER SITE PLANS AND, AND ALL OF THAT FOR THESE BUSINESSES SO THAT IN THE FUTURE, UM, IT'S MORE CLEAR WHAT IS ALLOWED AND WHAT'S NOT.
BUT THAT ONE, THEY WERE PARKING OHVS IN CUSTOMER PARKING SPACES.
SO THEN THE CUSTOMER PARKING SPACES WEREN'T AVAILABLE FOR CUSTOMERS TO PARK IN.
AND I DO THINK THAT THEY ACTUALLY HAD TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF VEHICLES THEY WERE RENTING OUT OF THAT SPACE BECAUSE THERE WAS PLACES WHERE THEY HAD VEHICLES THAT NEEDED TO BE AVAILABLE FOR CUSTOMER PARKING.
AND ALSO JUST TO ADD TO THE, UH, TO BRIAN'S LOCATION, UH, CAM AIR CAN AM IS PARKING ON THE SIDEWALK AND EXPANDING.
SO THAT MAY BE SOMETHING YOU WANNA LOOK AT.
I, YOU KNOW, IT'S, THEY GET BACK INTO COMPLIANCE.
BRIAN'S NOT HERE, BUT YOU KNOW, HE'S INVOLVED AS WELL.
UM, AND SO, UM, IT'S, IT'S GOING TO BE AN, AN ENFORCEMENT THING, UM, KIND OF ONGOING.
BUT THE BETTER KIND OF RULES WE HAVE FOR WHAT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO DO AND WHAT THEY'RE NOT, THE BETTER SITE PLANS WE HAVE, WHICH IS WHAT WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON OVER THE PAST YEAR AND A HALF OR SO, UM, JUST MAKES IT MORE CLEAR BECAUSE I THINK SOME OF THE SITE PLANS THAT WE HAD WERE NOT PRECISE.
THEY DID NOT SHOW SOME OF THE INFORMATION THAT WE NEEDED TO SHOW, UM, TO BE ABLE TO DO GOOD ENFORCEMENT.
SO THIS IS KIND OF A MULTIFACETED APPROACH
[02:10:01]
ON THIS AND THIS WOULD BE THE NEXT STEP, UM, AS FAR AS HAVING SOME KIND OF, UM, SOME DIFFERENT RULES, UM, AS THEY POTENTIALLY WANT TO EXPAND IN THE FUTURE.PETE, YOU HAVE A QUESTION? YES, I DO.
UH, CARRIE, THANK YOU FOR GOING AND, AND GETTING THAT DATA FROM MOAB AND SEARCHING FOR OTHERS.
I, THAT WAS OR I'S REQUEST FROM P AND Z AND IT WAS GREAT THAT YOU DID THAT, BUT LET ME JUST BE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT YOU SAID.
I THINK THAT THEY, AND THEY ACTUALLY SAID THEY WERE GONNA WATCH TONIGHT.
SO I'M SORRY, I'M GONNA
BUT YEAH, I, THE SENSE THAT I GOT FROM THEM WAS THAT THEY ARE IN THE SAME SITUATION AS WE ARE KNOWING THAT SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE, BUT NOT KNOWING EXACTLY WHAT THE RIGHT NUMBERS ARE.
AND SO THEY HAVE A ONE-TO-ONE RATIO, BUT THEN THEY'VE ALSO ACKNOWLEDGED IT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A ONE-TO-ONE RATIO IF A BUSINESS IS RENTING OUT MOTORCYCLE, SINGLE OCCUPANCY MOTORCYCLES ISN'T CORRECT.
AND SO THEY, THEY SAID THEY'D BEEN WORKING WITH SOME OF THEIR, UM, TOUR, UM, RENTAL AGENCIES, WHATEVER.
I THINK THEY DO A LOT OF TOURS THERE.
UM, AND SAY THEY SAY THE AVERAGE THAT THEY SEE IN A CAR IS ACTUALLY FOUR PEOPLE, UM, SHOWING UP.
AND SOMETIMES THEY HAVE A VAN WITH, YOU KNOW, A 15 PASSENGER VAN THAT'S FULL THAT SHOWS UP.
SOMETIMES THEY HAVE A CAR WITH JUST TWO PEOPLE, BUT THEY SAY ON AVERAGE THEY'RE SEEING THEIR CUSTOMERS SHOW UP ABOUT, ON AVERAGE FOUR TO A CAR.
AND THEN LOOKING AT THE OCCUPANCY OF ALL THE DIFFERENT VEHICLES BEING RENTED OUT OF A LOCATION TO COME UP WITH A PARKING RATIO.
AND IF WE SELECT A PARKING RATIO TODAY AND PUT IT INTO THE LDC, IS IT ANOTHER PROCESS SIMILAR TO THIS TO TWEAK IT AGAIN IN THE FUTURE AS WE GATHER MORE DATA? IT'S, YEAH, IT'S AS SIMPLE AS, YEAH, IT WOULD GO THROUGH, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WE'D WANT TO HAVE SOME KIND OF DATA AND SINCE THIS WOULD APPLY TO NEW BUSINESSES OR EXPANSIONS OF EXISTING BUSINESSES, IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT BEFORE WE GET SOME BETTER FEEDBACK.
BUT IT WOULD, YOU KNOW, WITH THE C P, UM, IT WOULD COME THROUGH PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.
SO PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION COULD WEIGH IN AND SAY, WOW, THIS SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF PARKING, OR THIS DOESN'T SEEM LIKE ENOUGH PARKING.
UM, AND THEN IT WOULD GET A RECOMMENDATION FROM P AND Z AND THEN COME TO COUNCIL AND GREAT.
LIKE I SAID, YOU KNOW, WE TRY TO GROUP THEM TOGETHER, BUT IF THERE'S SOMETHING URGENT, UM, THERE'S NOTHING TO STOP US FROM, UM, COMING BACK KIND OF AS A STANDALONE AMENDMENT.
AND THEN MY SECOND QUESTION IS RELATIVE TO, UH, WE DIDN'T RECOMMEND THAT CS IN INDUSTRIAL AREAS.
I WONDER IF YOU COULD GIVE ME A LITTLE BIT FURTHER INSIGHT INTO THAT CUZ I MM-HMM.
BUT, UM, SO IN GENERAL, INDUSTRIAL AREAS HAVE AUTO YARDS AND THAT SORT OF THING AND IT, A YARD FULL OF OHVS MIGHT, YOU MIGHT THINK THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE TO GO INTO AN INDUSTRIAL AREA.
SO NOT HAVING A C P REQUIREMENT MAY ENCOURAGE THE BUSINESSES TO GO INTO THOSE AREAS CUZ IT'S AN EASIER PROCESS.
AND SO IF YOU WANTED TO ENCOURAGE THE BUSINESSES TO GO INTO THOSE AREAS, UM, HAVING A C U P FOR COMMERCIAL AREAS, BUT NO C U P FOR INDUSTRIAL COULD ENCOURAGE THEM TO GO THERE CAUSE IT'S AN EASIER PROCESS.
UM, ON THE OTHER SIDE, UM, INDUSTRIAL AREAS, THE TWO THAT WE HAVE IN TOWN ARE AT THE END OF SHELBY AND THEN CONTRACTORS ROAD.
UM, SO YOU'RE GENERALLY DRIVING THROUGH RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS.
UM, AND SO IF IF IT'S THE COUNCIL'S DESIRE TO HAVE A C P IN BOTH, THAT'S NOT OPPOSED TO THAT.
LIKE I YEAH, YOU WOULDN'T BE OPPOSED, OPPOSED TO IT COULD BE WHATEVER THE COUNCIL WANTED THAT, THAT'S WAS MY CONCERN IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS COUNCIL IS PRETTY LASER FOCUSED ON, UH, PUTTING, SEEING SOME GROWTH OF SOME WORKFORCE HOUSING IN, IN, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST AT THE PERIPHERY OR SOMETIMES IN THE MIDDLE OF OUR INDUSTRIAL AREAS.
AND, AND I WOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT IMPACT.
AND SO I WOULD THINK A C P WOULD BE A EXTENDED CITYWIDE.
WELL, WHERE IS THAT ON THE LIST OF, I DON'T SEE THAT WHEN I'M LOOKING AT IT'S THEIRS, WHICH LET ME DO A PROCESS QUESTION I HAD FOR THE MAYOR AS WELL, WHICH WE'RE GOING NOW TOPIC BY TOPIC.
SO WE'RE JUST GONNA DISPENSE WITH LIKE PAGE 51 AND 52 AND THEN WE'LL GO BACK THROUGH THE DOCUMENT TO, TO MAKE SURE WE'RE COVERING ALL THE SECTIONS I WANNA MAKE SURE TO CARRY.
SO THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING PROCEDURALLY.
SO I THINK THERE'S THE COUPLE THINGS THAT ARE TOPICAL, UM, AND IT'S CAN BE DIFFICULT TO GO BY PAGE BY PAGE CUZ WE ORGANIZE THEM IN THE SAME WAY THAT LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE IS LAID OUT.
AND SO YOU MIGHT HAVE, SO FOR EXAMPLE,
[02:15:01]
OHVS, THERE'S CHANGES PROPOSED IN ARTICLE THREE, ARTICLE FIVE AND ARTICLE NINE, WHICH IS WHY YOU, YOU, YOU GROUPED THEM TOGETHER, WHICH IS GREAT THAT YOU DID.SO I'M SAYING DISPENSE WITH THIS FIRST CUZ YOU HAD THAT ALL ON THE PACKET.
PAGE 51 AND 52 COVERS ALL OF THE GROUPING OF THE OHVS.
BUT I DON'T SEE THERE THE CHANGE THAT WOULD PUT THE C A C P PROCESS IN FOR AN INDUSTRIAL AREA.
SO IT'S UN IT'S SECTION, AM I MISSING 3.2 E TABLE OF ALLOWED USES WHERE, UH, I GOT IT.
SECOND COLUMN SAYS THE PROPOSAL IS TO BE CONDITIONALLY PERMITTED AND COMMERCIAL AND LODGING AND PERMITTED IN INDUSTRIAL.
SO WOULD THAT COULD CHANGE TO BE CONDITIONALLY PERMANENT IN ALL THREE? THAT'S ALL I HAVE HONOR.
SO THE UNRESOLVED QUESTION, I'M SORRY, THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
YOU WANT TO QUESTION? THANK YOU.
SO, SO GROUPING ALL THIS TOGETHER, CUZ I THINK THERE ARE SOME, THERE'S SOME GREAT STUFF HERE.
UM, THERE WAS A LACK OF A DEFINITION.
YOU'RE PROVIDING A DEFINITION.
I THINK THAT'S REALLY HELPFUL.
PUTTING A C U P IN FOR THE COMMERCIAL AND THE INDUSTRIAL.
UM, I WOULD LIKE, BECAUSE IT SAYS PERMITTED INDUSTRIAL, BUT YOU'RE GONNA DO A C U P NOW INSTEAD, IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
IF THAT'S, IF THE MAJORITY OF COUNCIL WANTS THAT, WE CAN MAKE THAT CHANGE.
THAT THERE B A C U P IN ALL IN COMMERCIAL LODGING AND IN INDUSTRIAL FOR CONSISTENCY.
JUST, IS THAT THE CONSENSUS OF THE COMMISSION? THE, THE, I HAVE A QUESTION BEFORE.
WELL I WASN'T, I WAS GETTING TO TRYING TO GROUP ALL THIS I KNOW TOGETHER.
I HAVE A QUESTION TO BE ABLE TO SAY YES OR NO.
ISN'T LODGING RESTRICTED RIGHT NOW? WELL, LODGING IS ESSENTIALLY THE COMMERCIAL DISTRICT WITH LODGING ADDED TO IT.
UM, AND SO YOU GENERALLY IT'S NOT RESIDENTIAL.
SO LODGING IS OBVIOUSLY YOU GET A ZONE CHANGE TO DO A HOTEL.
THEIR COMMERCIAL DOESN'T HAVE THE HOTEL ALLOWANCE.
THE LODGING DISTRICT IS ESSENTIALLY A MIRROR OF COMMERCIAL, BUT WITH, UM, ALLOWANCES FOR WHATEVER LODGING IS APPROVED WHEN THE ZONE CHANGE IS APPROVED.
I'M JUST, I'M JUST TRYING TO GET ALL THE, ALL MY STUFF OUT ABOUT THIS AS A SECTION.
UM, SO AGAIN, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I WOULD SUPPORT.
I KNOW YOU WANT KNOW, WE'LL GET TO WHERE EVERYBODY IS.
I LIKE YOUR, DO YOU WANNA DO A THUMBS UP? YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.
DO PEOPLE SUPPORT THAT ADDING A C U P REQUIREMENT FOR THE YEAH.
THERE YOU GO TO PUBLIC HEARING
UM, THE PART ABOUT THE ONE SPACE AND THE, THE DIFFERENCE OF THE 1.51 TO ONE OR ONE TO ONE AND A HALF.
I'M LEANING TO THE ONE TO ONE AND I, I, I THINK I REALLY, IT'S GREAT THAT YOU POINTED THAT OUT BEFORE THAT THIS IS ALWAYS A LIVING DOCUMENT, YOU KNOW, AND THAT IT'S UNDER CONSTANT EVALUATION, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THIS IS SUCH A HOT TOPIC THAT IT'S ONE THAT WE COULD COME BACK AND ADDRESS IF THE RATIO'S NOT RIGHT.
BUT TO ERR ON THE SIDE TO ME OF MAKING SURE THAT THE SPACE REQUIREMENT IS THERE AND BASED ON THE HISTORY YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO FIND, THE ONLY COMPARABLE ONE BEING MOAB, I WOULD SUPPORT THE ORIGINAL RECOMMENDATION FROM STAFF ON THIS VERSUS THE, UH, PLANNING AND ZONING CHANGE.
WELL, QUESTION THAT WOULD, IF THAT WAS WHAT WAS INCORPORATED, WOULD ACTUALLY REDUCE THE REQUIRED AMOUNT OF PARKING.
JUST HOW DO OTHERS FEEL BEFORE WE GO? I THINK, JESSICA, DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION THAT YOU WANTED TO ASK? NO.
DO WE WANNA DO A THUMBS UP ON THAT ONE TOO? OR AGAIN, THE ON THE ONE-TO-ONE.
AND THEN THE FACT THAT YOU'VE ADDED THE DEFINITIONS, UM, AGAIN, I'VE, I'VE COVERED THAT.
I I THINK THAT'S GREAT THAT THEY'RE DIFFERENT, THAT THAT'S RECOGNIZED AND NOW THAT'S CLEARLY STATED ON OUR, ON OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
AND YOUR LAST CHANGE, AGAIN, GOES WITH DEFINITIONS.
SO WITH THE TWO CLARIFICATIONS ABOUT THE C P AND THE ONE-TO-ONE, UH, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE, THE, THESE RECOMMENDATIONS GROUPED TOGETHER FOR THIS ARE, ARE GREAT THAT WAY.
AND I'LL RESERVE, BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA GO BACK.
I, AGAIN, MAYOR, THAT'S A PR QUESTION I HAVE FOR YOU.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE A CHANCE TO VET AND MAKE SURE THAT NOBODY HAS QUESTIONS ON ANY OTHER Z SO I WOULD WANNA GO THROUGH THEM AT LEAST ARTICLE BY ARTICLE JUST TO SAY IF ANYBODY IS RAISING, ONCE WE'RE DONE WITH OHVS, MAKE SURE WE DON'T MISS ANYTHING.
WELL, CARRIE, YOU'RE GONNA BE COVERING THEM ALL ANYWAY, RIGHT? YEAH, WELL, I MEAN, NOT ALL OF THEM BECAUSE SOME OF THEM ARE KIND OF BORING.
THAT'S WHY I'M SUGGESTING WE JUST SAY I HAVE QUESTIONS, BUT I WAS GONNA HIGHLIGHT KIND OF THE BIG, THE BIG ONES.
BUT WE CAN ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT ANYTHING THAT YOU HAVE.
YOUR CONVERSATION IS NOT LIMITED.
[02:20:01]
NEXT QUESTION.SO THIS IS A POINT OF CLARIFICATION FOR ME AND MR. CHRISTENSEN, YOU MIGHT BE THE INDIVIDUAL TO ANSWER THIS.
SO, UM, WHAT I HEARD BEING SAID WAS, UH, ANYTHING THAT IS, UM, NONCONFORMING TODAY, UM, IS NOT IMPACTED BY ANY CHANGES THAT WE MIGHT MAKE INTO THE CODE AS OF TODAY.
SO, UM, THE, THE CODE DOES REQUIRE EVEN LEGAL NONCONFORMING USES.
SO FOR THIS CASE OF OHH FEES, THE, THE ANSWER GENERAL IS GENERALLY YES.
UM, BUT THEY ARE REQUIRED TO COMPLY TO THE, TO THE MAXIMUM STENT POSSIBLE.
NOW, LOOKING AT MOST OF THESE O HV PLACES, THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO COMPLY AT ALL WITH IT, BUT THERE IS AT LEAST WE THINK MAYBE ONE THAT MIGHT BE ABLE TO FIT A COUPLE EXTRA PARKING SPACES IN, UH, SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO BRING 'EM CLOSER TO COMPLIANCE.
UM, BUT YEAH, GEN GENERALLY, UH, ANY, ANY EXISTING BUSINESSES OUR GRAND, OUR GRANDFATHER DID.
SO I JUST WANTED TO, TO SORT OF MAKE SURE THAT IT'S CLEARLY STATED IN, IN MY HEAD THAT, UH, ANY EXISTING BUSINESS TODAY, IF THEY ARE STACKING, UM, OHVS, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER THEY HAVE 10 OR A THOUSAND INSIDE OF THE SPACE, SO LONG AS THEY MAINTAINED THE SPACE THAT YOU'VE AGREED STARTING OUT, IS THAT, IS THAT CORRECT? I MEAN, THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT ENCROACHING, THEY'RE NOT MOVING.
THEY'RE JUST PUTTING MORE VEHICLES AS THE VEHICLES PERHAPS ARE SMALLER OR WHATEVER.
THEY'RE PUTTING MORE VEHICLES.
AND THAT'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SAYING SQUARE FOOTAGE AND NUMBER OF ACTUAL VEHICLES.
AND SO THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET CLARITY ON.
BRIAN, FURTHER TO THAT THOUGH, I MEAN, I, THIS IS WHAT I ASKED ABOUT EARLIER.
SO, UM, MY UNDERSTANDING IS MEMORIAL WEEKEND IS LIKE THE TOP ATV WEEKEND, A TOP O HV WEEKEND, RIGHT? SO ON THE FRIDAY BEFORE, WHEN WE SEE A CAR CARRIER PARKED ON, UM, 1 79 AND ONE OUT HERE ON 89 A AND THEY'RE OFFLOADING MORE OHVS IN THEORY, ARE THEY LIKELY GOING OUT OF COMPLIANCE RIGHT THEN AND THERE AND ARE WE READY TO GO AND ENFORCE? YES, THEY WOULD BE OUTSIDE OF COMPLIANCE IF THEY WERE PARKING MORE VEHICLES THAN OUTSIDE OF THE ALREADY APPROVED AREA.
UM, AND SO THAT'D BE UP TO, UH, CODE ENFORCEMENT OR, OR PD.
SO I GO TO AN ESTABLISHMENT THAT IS NEXT TO A, UH, ATV RENTAL COMPANY ON 89 A OKAY.
AND THEY HAVE A LOT OF PARKING IN THE ESTABLISHMENT THAT I MM-HMM.
UH, THEY HAVE MORE PARKING THAN THE ATV PARKING HOUSE.
AND SO GUESS WHAT HAPPENS? SO PEOPLE PARK THERE TO GO YES, PEOPLE PARK THERE, AND THE PEOPLE WHO WANNA GO INTO THIS ESTABLISHMENT CAN'T FIND A PLACE TO PARK MM-HMM.
AND THEY HAVE SIGNS ALL OVER THAT YOU, YOU NEED TO BE GOING TO THIS ESTABLISHMENT IN ORDER TO PARK.
BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S ENFORCED.
UH, AND SO TO ME, WHEN I LOOK AT THAT, THE STA THE ATV RENTAL COMPANY, THEY'RE STACKED ALL OVER MM-HMM.
THERE'S NO PARKING AT ALL, AND THE SMALL AMOUNT OF PARKING IS ON THE OTHER SIDE.
UH, AND EVEN IF YOU HAD FOUR PEOPLE IN A VEHICLE, YOU STILL WOULDN'T HAVE ENOUGH PLA PLACES TO PARK ON THEIR PROPERTY, HENCE ENCROACHING ON THEIR NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY.
SO WE'VE SEEN THAT, AND THAT IS WHY WE'VE IDENTIFIED THAT WE NEED TO CHANGE THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR THE O H B BUSINESS IS BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S BASED ON SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THEIR BUILDING, WHICH YOU DON'T NEED A WHOLE LOT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE TO HAVE AN ATV RENTAL BUSINESS.
UM, YOU NEED A LITTLE DESK AND A COMPUTER TO FILL OUT PAPERWORK AND LIKE, SO, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN OFTEN, I THINK THE PARKING REQUIREMENT RIGHT NOW IS ONE PER 500 SQUARE FEET.
SO YOU HAVE A THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT BUILDING, YOU'RE CAN HAVE TWO PARKING SPACES, AND THEN THE REST OF THE LOT DOES FILL UP WITH O.
SO THAT IS, THOSE KIND OF SITUATIONS ARE WHY WE'VE IDENTIFIED THAT WE DO NEED TO CHANGE THIS RATIO.
UM, AND THEN THAT'S, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, LIKE WE SAID, STEP ONE WAS MAKING SURE WE HAD A GOOD RECORD AND SO MAKING,
[02:25:01]
AND SO I WOULD SAY THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'D BE GRANDFATHERED IN FOR WHAT THEY'VE SHOWN ON THEIR PLAN.SO IF WHAT THEY'RE SH HAVING RIGHT NOW IS BEYOND WHAT THEY'RE SHOWING ON THEIR PLANS, THAT'S A CODE ENFORCEMENT ISSUE.
AND AGAIN, THIS IS JUST GONNA BE AN ONGOING ISSUE BECAUSE THESE BUSINESSES TEND TO EXPAND A HOLIDAY WEEKEND'S COMING, SO THEY'RE ANTICIPATE HIGHER DEMAND.
SO THEY PUT A COUPLE MORE OHVS ON THE PROPERTY AND IT JUST KIND OF CREEPS UP.
AND THEN WE GO OUT AND DO CODE ENFORCEMENT AND THEY COME BACK INTO COMPLIANCE AND THEN IT CREEPS UP.
IT'S, IT'S AN ONGOING THING, BUT HAVING, UM, A DIFFERENT PARKING REQUIREMENT, UM, COULD LEND US TO HAVING A LITTLE MORE TEETH WHEN YOU HAVE THIS SOMEONE THAT'S HABITUALLY GOING OVER AND NOW THEY WANT TO EXPAND.
AND NOW, OKAY, NOW YOU WANNA EXPAND, WE CAN APPLY THE NEW RATIO TO YOU.
NEXT, IS THAT THE, ANY OTHER OHV COMMENTS? I BELIEVE WE'RE GOOD.
SO, I MEAN, THAT WAS A BIG ONE.
UM, YEAH, SO KIND OF THE NEXT SET AND, UM, OF CODE CHANGES IS, UM, CODE ENFORCEMENT CHANGES THAT, YOU KNOW, HAVE COME OUT FROM WORKING WITH OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AND WHAT ARE THEIR MOST COMMON COMPLAINTS, HOW CAN WE ADDRESS THEM THROUGH THE CODE? UM, AND SO THOSE INCLUDE EXTERIOR PAINTING.
UM, SO REQUIRING, IF YOU'RE GONNA REPAINT YOUR WHOLE HOUSE, YOU DO HAVE TO DO IT A COMPLIANT COLOR.
UM, MAKING THAT CLEAR OR KIND OF CLARIFYING RV SCREENING REQUIREMENTS.
AND THEN OUTDOOR LIGHTING, UM, HAVING A DATE SET IN 2030 THAT, UM, ALL OF LIGHTING WOULD HAVE TO BE COMPLIANT WITH THE, THE FEEDBACK COMING FROM OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT IS THAT IT'S A, IT'S A LOT OF WORK ON THEM TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHEN LIGHTING WAS INSTALLED ON CERTAIN HOUSES.
AND, UM, IF WE'RE LOOKING FOR THE A TO BE A DARK SKY COMMUNITY, UM, THIS HAS BEEN IN PLACE SINCE 2001.
AND SO PEOPLE HAVE HAD 29 YEARS AT THAT POINT TO UPGRADE SOME LIGHTING.
SO WE, THAT, THAT WASN'T A REASON, A REASONABLE DATE, AND IT'LL HELP CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS DO THEIR JOB.
I'M GONNA JUST GO FIRST ON THIS ONE.
UH, CARRIE WHO CAME UP WITH 2030, I MEAN, CAN IT BE 2025? UM, KURT CAN ADDRESS THAT.
THAT WAS, THAT WAS MY RECOMMENDATION TO PROVIDE PLENTY OF TIME NOW THAT IT'S WAS SEVEN YEARS.
UH, FOR BUSINESSES, UM, AND RESIDENTS TO, TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE.
BUT THEY'VE HAD SINCE 20, WHAT, WHEN DID YOU SAY 2021? WELL, SO THE LAW HAS BEEN IN PLACE SINCE 2001, BUT THERE HASN'T BEEN A REQUIREMENT.
IT'S JUST BEEN A REQUIREMENT THAT IF YOU'RE CHANGING OUT YOUR LIGHTING FIXTURES, YOU HAVE TO UPDATE.
IT'S NOT, HASN'T BEEN A REQUIREMENT TO UPDATE OLD LIGHTING FIXTURES.
UH, JESSICA, HOW TO HANDLE IT FIRST IS SEVEN YEARS.
SO I THINK SEVEN YEARS IS TOO LONG.
I MEAN, IT'S JUST MY GUT FEELING.
UM, IS THERE A PROBLEM OF MAKING IT LIKE FIVE YEARS? OR IS, ARE THERE LEGAL REASONS THAT YOU'RE PUSHING IT FARTHER OUT? SO I, I BELIEVE THE LONGER YOU PUSH IT OUT, THE LESS LIKELY TO DRAW ANY CHALLENGES.
AND WHAT DO YOU THINK OF FIVE YEARS? I KNOW YOU RECOMMENDED SEVEN.
COUNCIL COULD GO SHORTER IF YOU WANTED TO.
I JUST THINK IT'S A VERY LONG TIME.
AND, UM, I STILL THINK FIVE YEARS IS A LONG TIME, BUT I LISTENED TO WHAT YOU SAY.
SO MAYOR YES, BRIAN, GO AHEAD.
YEAH, LIKE COUNSEL WILLIAMSON.
I ALSO THINK THAT SIX AND A HALF YEARS IS TOO, TOO LONG.
UH, I'D BE COMFORTABLE PROBABLY WITH THREE, BUT I WOULD ALSO BE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHETHER, KIND OF LIKE WITH THE HOME ENERGY RETROFIT PROGRAM, COULD WE HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THAT WITH SOME MEANS TESTING SO THAT THE MORE VULNERABLE IN OUR COMMUNITY MIGHT HAVE SOME SUPPORT FROM THE CITY TO CHANGE OUT THOSE FIXTURES.
KIND OF LIKE WHAT KSB IS DOING WITH BUSINESSES RIGHT NOW.
SO WHEN I STARTED HERE 11 YEARS AGO MM-HMM.
UM, ONE WAS IT FOR BUSINESSES ONLY, IT WAS FOR BUSINESSES ONLY.
AND ONE BUSINESSES TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THAT IN THREE YEARS.
AND SO THE PROGRAM WAS DISCONTINUED.
WE GAVE A GRANT TO KSB THIS YEAR TO, FOR BUSINESSES TO SPEED IT UP.
SO WHAT, WHAT WAS IT? $10,000, I THINK.
WELL, AND IF THERE'S NO BURNING PLATFORM, RIGHT.
[02:30:01]
YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO BECOME COMPLIANT, WHAT WAS THE INCENTIVE? EVEN IF YOU WERE GETTING HALF OF IT PAID? YEAH.SO THERE MIGHT BE MORE INTEREST IF IT WAS NOW A REQUIREMENT.
HAD PEOPLE, I, I WOULD ASK US ALL MM-HMM.
FIVE YEARS IS GONNA RUN BY BEFORE YOU KNOW IT.
AND SEVEN YEARS REALLY ISN'T ALL THAT TOO, TOO FAR OUT THERE.
WE'RE STILL PUTTING A TARGET OUT FOR OUR RESIDENTS.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE GIVE THEM FAIR NOTICE AT, AT SEVEN YEARS.
I'M SUPPORTIVE OF WHAT, UH, THE CITY ATTORNEY RECOMMENDED.
I'M OPEN TO A LITTLE SHORTER, BUT THREE YEARS IS LIKE, YEAH.
THAT WOULD BE ASKING KAREN TO DROP SOME THINGS AND, AND, AND MOVE FORWARD WITH ALL DUE.
WELL, AND THE OTHER QUESTION I WANT TO TAKE ON BOTH YOUR VIEW.
UH, YOU CAN DO THAT RIGHT ON THIS.
UH, TO, TO ADDRESS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
WE'RE TALK, BRIAN, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE RETROFIT, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A, A MAJOR EXPENSE LIGHTS EACH ONE.
NO, I'M NOT SAYING IT'S A HUNDRED BUCKS, WHICH MAY BE FOR THE AVERAGE HOUSE, YOU MAY NEED FOUR, UH, AT MOST.
SO LET'S TAKE THE EXPENSE IN THERE, UH, UNDER CONSIDERATION TWO.
UH, I DON'T KNOW, UH, HOW IT WOULD BE IMPLEMENTED, BUT I AM VERY SENSITIVE TO STAFF'S TIME, SO THAT MIGHT BE A PROBLEM.
UH, BUT I THINK IF WE, I, I AGREE.
THREE IS TWO SHORT, SEVEN IS TOO LONG.
DO I HEAR FIVE AND A HALF
I, I JUST, I'D LIKE TO GET THIS MOVING ALONG.
I, A LOT OF PEOPLE NOW MOVE INTO THE COMMUNITY.
I'VE SEEN, UH, BEEN CONTACTED BY PEOPLE SAYING, WELL, I THOUGHT THIS IS A DARK SKY COMMUNITY.
WHAT'S GOING ON HERE? AND, UH, IT'S NOT, THAT'S A VERY COMMON QUESTION.
SO THE OTHER THING IS, WE SHOULD BE UNDERSTANDING THAT WHAT LIGHTS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT, CARRIE? ARE WE MM-HMM.
WELL, EVERYTHING HAS TO BE FULLY SHIELDED AND CONFINED TO THE PROPERTY.
SO IT DOESN'T, THERE'S NO EXCEPTION FOR A MOTION DETECTOR.
LIKE YOU CAN THINK THERE'S SOME GUIDELINES FOR HOW TO SET A MOTION DETECTOR, BUT IT STILL HAS TO BE FULLY SHIELDED.
BECAUSE I KNOW, I BELIEVE THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE THINKING LIKE THE FRONT DOOR LIGHTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
BUT IF YOU HAVE A SPOTLIGHT ON, I KNOW THE OTHER SIDE OF 1 79 FOR ME, THERE'S SOMEBODY UP ON A HILL THAT HAS A SPOTLIGHT AND IT JUST SHINES INTO THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO, UH, WELL, THEY STILL HAVE TO BE PROPERLY ADJUSTED AND ALL THAT.
WELL, THEY'LL PROPERLY EDUCATED.
SO, UH, BUT, UH, ANYWAY, MELISSA, I THINK YOU'RE ACTUALLY, JESSICA HAD HER HANDED FIRST.
JESSICA'S HAND WAS UP FOR A WHILE.
YEAH, I THINK I'M FIVE YEARS, BUT I HONESTLY THINK THIS IS, THESE ARE PRIVATE PROPERTIES.
THERE'S NO NEED TO HAVE OUTDOOR LIGHTS NECESSARILY.
IT'S NOT A LIVE OR DIE SITUATION.
AND YOU'RE GIVING THEM FIVE YEARS TO PUT THEIR DOLLARS IN A LITTLE COFFEE CAN IF THEY WANNA UPGRADE.
AND I JUST, I, AND THAT, THAT'S A HUGE PROGRAM YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
AND I SEE I'M TOTALLY AGAINST CREATING A HUGE PROGRAM WHEN WE'RE GIVING A FIVE YEAR FOR, YOU KNOW, LEEWAY AND, UM, I MEAN, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MEANS TESTING, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A LOT OF STUFF WHERE WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT FOOD AND WATER THINGS THAT PEOPLE NEED TO LIVE.
SO I, I'M NOT, I'M NOT FOR A PROGRAM, BUT I'M FOR FIVE YEARS.
COULD I ASK THE COUNSELOR FOR A CLARIFICATION ON SOMETHING? SO YOU SAID FIVE YEARS, SO THE DATE YOU'RE PROPOSING WOULD BE JANUARY 1ST, 2028 OR JANUARY 1ST, 2027.
JUST TO CONFORM WITH THE LANGUAGE, THE WAY IT'S IN HERE, I I, I NEED TO KNOW WHAT TIMEFRAME YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE WE'RE AT A HALFWAY POINT ALMOST FOR THE YEAR.
SO
KURT, DOES THAT WORK? YES, THAT WORKS.
YOU DON'T THINK THERE'LL BE TOO MUCH PUSHBACK? NO.
SO, SO LEGALLY, UH, I MEAN, MY RECOMMENDATION WAS LONGER TIME TO REDUCE THE LIKELIHOOD OF CHALLENGES, BUT LEGALLY IT CAN BE SHORTER.
SO, UM, 27, HOW ARE WE GOING TO MAKE SURE THE COMMUNITY IS COMPLETELY AWARE OF THIS CHANGE? MM-HMM.
[02:35:01]
IT'S THERE, RIGHT? YEAH.SO KSB, UM, LIKES THIS CHANGE AS WELL.
THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY, UM, SO THEY CAN BE A GOOD COMMUNITY PARTNER.
WE CAN ALSO START CHANGING, UM, YOU KNOW, WE INTERACT WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE.
UM, WE, SO WE CAN HAVE INFORMATION AT OUR FRONT COUNTER.
WE ALSO HAVE SOME GOOD CONTACTS IN DIFFERENT REALTOR GROUPS, UM, THAT CAN HELP GET INFORMATION OUT.
ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE MOVING TO THE COMMUNITY TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY KNOW WHAT THOSE RULES ARE.
AND, UM, IT'S, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO DO A, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE FOUR AND A HALF YEARS TO, BUT YEAH.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE GET THE, WE CAN WORK ON THAT AND WE CAN ALSO WORK WITH, YOU KNOW, SOCIAL MEDIA AND THEN ALL THAT TO RIGHT.
THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE HAS BEEN GOT IT.
I'M SURE GIVING THEM THAT LENGTH OF TIME THEY CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING.
UH, AND SO TWO YEARS FROM NOW.
WELL, SO I HAVE A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS IF THAT'S ALRIGHT.
IS THERE ENFORCEMENT SORT OF HERE? UM, I MEAN, I, I CAN TRY TO
UH, UNFORTUNATELY, BRIAN HAD A EMERGENCY AT HOME.
HE HAD TO RUN OUT, BUT HE WAS INTENDING TO COME HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS.
SO MY QUESTION IS, UM, BY SHORTENING THIS, BY YEAR AND A HALF, MORE OR LESS, HAVE WE POTENTIALLY CREATED AN ISSUE FOR, OR ORDINANCE ENFORCEMENT? WELL, THEY WANTED A SHORTER TIMEFRAME.
AND THEN, SO THEY WERE HAPPY TO TAKE ON ALL OF THE PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT THEIR NEIGHBORS IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.
AND THIS CAME UP BECAUSE THEY SAID ONE OF THE ISSUES THEY RUN INTO IS THAT BECAUSE, UM, THE ORDINANCE RIGHT NOW WENT INTO EFFECT IN 2001, HOUSES BUILT PRE 2001 COULD HAVE LEGAL NONCONFORMING LIGHTING FIXTURES.
AND SO THEY SPENT A LOT OF TIME DOING, TRYING TO RESEARCH WHEN HOUSES WERE BUILT, WHEN ADDITIONS WERE DONE, THAT SORT OF THING.
WHEREAS IF IT'S JUST THAT DATE THAT EVERYTHING HAS TO BE IN COMPLIANCE, IT'S ACTUALLY GONNA REDUCE THEIR WORKLOAD.
CAUSE THEY'RE NOT THAT, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE, AND I UNDERSTAND THEIR POSITION COMPLETELY MM-HMM.
UM, I HAD ONE, ONE MORE QUESTION ABOUT ORDINANCE ENFORCEMENT.
UM, WHAT IF I DON'T HAVE MY LIGHTS FIXED BY 2028
AND SO IF JANUARY 2ND, 2028 COMES AROUND AND YOU HAVEN'T CHANGED IT, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'RE GONNA GO KNOCKING ON DOORS AND OKAY.
BUT IT WOULD BE THAT AS WE GET COMPLAINTS, IT WOULD BE MORE CLEAR THAT, OKAY, YOU'RE, YOU'RE PAST THAT DATE, YOU DO NEED TO UPGRADE YOUR LIGHTING.
AND UM, IF YOU CONTINUE TO REFUSE, YOU COULD EVENTUALLY END UP WITH A CITATION.
BUT THEIR GOAL IS COMPLIANCE NOT ENDING UP IN COURT OVER EVERYTHING.
I'M JUST WONDERING YOU, WHEN YOU MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, GETTING THE WORD OUT AND TALKING TO REALTORS, COULD WE NOT ALSO HAVE A REQUIREMENT THAT WHEN A HOUSE CHANGES HANDS, FOR INSTANCE, OR A BUILDING, COMMERCIAL BUILDING CHANGES HANDS THAT, THAT REQUIRES COMING COMPLIANT AT THAT TIME? BECAUSE THAT, I MEAN, IN THEORY, I MEAN, HOW MANY HUNDREDS OF PROPERTIES CHANGE HANDS EVERY YEAR AND OVER FIVE YEARS? CUZ YES, I CAN LIVE WITH FIVE YEARS.
UH, YOU KNOW, THAT COULD GET SOME PRETTY GOOD PROGRESS MADE IN THAT REGARD.
SO, UM, I'D HAVE TO LOOK INTO THAT.
I THINK LE LEGALLY WE COULD DO THAT.
UM, HOW WE WOULD GO ABOUT ENFORCING THAT.
UM, IF CODE'S GONNA WASH EVERY SALE AND THEN GO ON AND SURVEY EVERY HOUSE BEFOREHAND, I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY WOULD DO THAT.
WELL, THERE'S A WILL, THERE'S A WAY WE COULD TRY DEPARTMENT.
YOU NEED, BUT IF YOU, THE WILL WOULD BE TO ADD FIVE MORE OR 10 MORE CODE ENFORCEMENT.
NO, IT'S, IT'S NOT EVEN A CODE ENFORCEMENT ISSUE.
I MEAN, IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE MONITORING REAL ESTATE TRANSACTIONS.
I MEAN, IT'S A WHOLE NEW DEPARTMENT WITH NEW PERSONNEL AND A NEW DIRECTION AND MISSION.
I, I CAN'T, I DON'T THINK I COULD GET BEHIND THAT BECAUSE OF CAPACITY ISSUES FOR STAFF.
KAREN WOULD LIKE TO HAVE 10 MORE CODE ENFORCEMENT.
UH, INSTEAD OF YOU'RE AT, YOU'RE AT YEAR 2028.
JANUARY 1ST, 2028 IS THE DATE THAT I HAVE.
UH, WE DO THUMBS UP OF SUPPORT.
[02:40:01]
YOU PETEKI DO YOU HAVE CARDS, MAYOR? UH, I DO NOT HAVE ANY CARDS YET, BUT, UH, WE HAVEN'T GOT THROUGH.
DO YOU HAVE ONE? IS THERE A CARD? WE DO NEED TO OPEN FOR PUBLIC HEARING THOUGH.
I, I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT ARE THERE ANY CARDS? OKAY.
BUT WE HAVEN'T GONE DOWN THROUGH THE WHOLE LIST ANYWAYS.
UM, SO THE NEXT CATEGORY I HAVE ON MY LIST, DID YOU WANNA FILL OUT A CARD? OKAY.
UM, SO THE NEXT CATEGORY I HAVE ON MY LIST ARE THE HOUSING, UM, ISSUES AND, WELL, NOT ISSUES, BUT HIGH HOUSING ITEMS. UM, AND I WAS GONNA MENTION EARLIER THAT, UM, SO FOR SUSTAINABILITY AND HOUSING, WE DO ANTICIPATE THAT THERE COULD BE A MYRIAD OF CHANGES TO THE CODE TO ADDRESS MAYBE THE CLIMATE ACTION PLAN AND SOME OF THE HOUSING GOALS.
AND BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT OF CLERICAL CHANGES IN THIS ONE, WE DIDN'T INCLUDE A LOT OF THOSE IN THERE.
SO YOU COULD SEE DIFFERENT PACKAGES COMING IN THE NEXT, YOU KNOW, SIX MONTHS OR SO AS, UM, THAT ARE MORE FOCUSED ON THOSE AREAS.
UM, BUT THE TWO HOUSING ITEMS ON HERE WERE, UM, ALLOWING FULL KITCHENS AND GUEST HOUSES, UM, AND THEN ALSO MODIFYING MASSING REQUIREMENTS FOR MANUFACTURED HOUSES, UM, TO OPEN UP THE OPTIONS FOR, FOR MANUFACTURED HOUSES.
IT'S BEEN DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO FIND MANUFACTURED HOUSES THAT MEET OUR MASSING REQUIREMENTS.
AND THEN, UM, THE KITCHENS, IT IS, UM, WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, SINCE SHORT-TERM RENTALS HAVE BECOME MORE POPULAR, WE'VE SEEN QUITE AN INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF BUILDING PERMITS THAT ARE ISSUED FOR NEW GUEST HOUSES AND NEW GUEST QUARTERS.
UM, AND AS WE'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE, SOME PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN DOING POTENTIALLY LONG-TERM RENTAL IN THOSE, BUT THE INABILITY TO HAVE A FULL KITCHEN, A FULL STOVE IN THAT KIND OF ACTUALLY INCENTIVIZES THEM TO STAY IN THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL MM-HMM.
UH, MELISSA? OH, SORRY JESSICA.
I'M DOING THE SAME THING AGAIN, BUT JESSICA, ANYTHING.
PETE, I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT SHORT-TERM RENTALS.
I REALLY, I MEAN, THEY MAY SAY THEY WANNA DO LONG-TERM RENTALS, BUT YOU KNOW, IT, SHORT-TERM RENTALS JUST, WERE JUST CREATING MORE VALUABLE SHORT-TERM RENTALS AS FAR AS THIS IS CONCERNED.
BUT I BELIEVE ANOTHER COUNSELOR HAS AN IDEA.
I, I, AND I DON'T KNOW, I MAY BE THAT COUNSELOR
UM, OH, MOST MY WORDS EXACTLY.
ABOUT JUST WONDERING IF IT IS IN A BUNCH OF, WE BELIEVE SHORT-TERM RENTAL FOLKS WITH NOT FULL KITCHENS THAT WANT NOW A MORE EXPENSIVE, LONG SHORT-TERM RENTAL WITH A FULL KITCHEN, WHICH I THINK THEY COULD GET MORE MONEY FOR, CUZ IT'S RIGHT.
ONE OF THE AMENITIES THAT'S DISCLOSED AND SHORT-TERM RENTAL CONTRACTS ALL THE TIME.
I'M CURIOUS IF WHETHER WE'VE THOUGHT AND WHAT THOUGHTS YOU MIGHT HAVE ABOUT US TRYING THIS OUT FIRST IN OUR LONG-TERM SHORT-TERM TO LONG-TERM RENTAL CONVERSION PROGRAM, MAKING THIS JUST A NEW ELEMENT IN THAT PROGRAM AND SEEING HOW THAT GOES FOR A WHILE.
SEE IF THAT ENCOURAGES PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY JOIN THAT PROGRAM THAT WE'VE ALREADY AUTHORIZED AND HAVE FOR INCENT INCENTING PEOPLE TO CONVERT THEIR SHORT-TERM RENTALS TO LONG-TERM RENTALS.
STAFF, STAFF HAVE A COMMENT ABOUT WHETHER THEY HAVE HEARTBURN OVER THAT ISSUE OR, OR NOT.
SO I, I GUESS I AM UNCLEAR AND SOMEONE ELSE CAN, WHETHER WE CAN HAVE DIFFERENT STANDARDS FOR LONG-TERM RENTALS AND SHORT-TERM RENTALS.
I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT WE CAN'T DO THAT RIGHT NOW, BUT WE, WE HAVE THIS EXISTING PROGRAM.
SO I'M CURIOUS AS TO WHY CAN'T WE JUST AMEND THIS PROGRAM? SO MAYOR AND COUNSELORS, THE, EXCUSE ME, THE EXISTING PROGRAM IS, UH, INCENTIVIZING THEM TO CHANGE FROM A LONG, UH, SHORT TERM RENTAL TO A LONG TERM RENTAL.
UM, BUT IT'S NOT CONDITIONED ON ANY, YOU KNOW, ZONING REQUIREMENT.
UM, WE HAVE TO TREAT ALL RESIDENTS SO STRUCTURES THE SAME, WHETHER IT'S LONG-TERM OR SHORT-TERM RENTAL.
SO, I MEAN, WE CAN, UM, WE CAN ALWAYS EX TRY TO EXPAND THAT PROGRAM AND PROVIDE MORE, PROVIDE MORE INCENTIVES.
BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN, UH, USE, USE THIS AS THE INCENTIVE.
I, I GUESS WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU PROPOSING THAT IS THE, THAT IS ONE OF A, A NEW INCENTIVE IN THAT PROGRAM IS WE ALLOW, UH, A FULL KITCHEN IF YOU, IF YOU DE RESTRICT RIGHT.
THAT'S WHAT DEED THE PROGRAM IS.
SO THE CO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE SAYS YOU CAN ONLY HAVE A KITCHEN WHICH DOESN'T INCLUDE THE OVEN.
AND SO IN ORDER TO ALLOW A GUEST HAS TO HAVE A FULL KITCHEN, THE
[02:45:01]
LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE HAS TO BE CHANGED, WHETHER IT'S AN INCENTIVE IN THE PROGRAM OR NOT.AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WE CAN'T PUT IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AT THIS POINT THAT HERE'S THE RULES FOR LONG-TERM RENTALS AND HERE'S THE RULE FOR SHORT TERM.
SO IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A BLANKET CHANGE FOR ALL STRUCTURES, UM, FOR ALL LAND.
AND SO, KIRK CAN TELL ME IF I'M WRONG.
AND SO YEAH, ALL RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES HAVE TO BE TREATED THE SAME IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
UM, UNLESS WE CAN ARTICULATE A PUBLIC HEALTH SAFETY REASON FOR TREATING THEM DIFFERENTLY.
THERE'S NOTHING THAT REQUIRES THAT LONG-TERM RENTAL.
YOU COULD LONG-TERM RENT FROM SOMEBODY WITH A KITCHENETTE VERSUS A KITCHEN ANYWAY.
SO I'M NOT, I MEAN I'M, I DON'T, I'M IN SUPPORT OF THE CHANGE HERE BECAUSE I, I DON'T, I THINK THAT ADUS WITH OR WITHOUT KITCHENS ARE BEING USED AS SHORT-TERM RENTALS.
I THINK ANYTHING THAT COULD HELP INCENTIVIZE, YOU KNOW, LONG-TERM USAGE, WHICH A KITCHEN WOULD BE MORE ATTRACTIVE TO SOMEBODY LOOKING FOR LONG-TERM RENTAL, UM, IS TO ME, UH, SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HELP ADDRESS THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL ISSUE.
THEREFORE, I'M IN, I'M SUPPORTIVE, THIS PROPOSED CHANGE TO, YOU KNOW, UM, ALLOW CHANGES THAT WOULD PUT FULL KITCHENS IN BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IT'S GONNA CHANGE THE USE.
I THINK, I THINK THAT, THAT THAT UNIT IS GONNA BE A SHORT-TERM RENTAL EITHER WAY.
AND AT LEAST IF THERE'S A KITCHEN, THERE'S A SHOT, THEN IT MIGHT BE A LONG-TERM RENTAL.
SO COULD I JUST, MAYBE ANOTHER QUESTION FOR, FOR KURT, BUT WE HAVE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE DIGGA, WHICH ALLOWS THE COUNCIL UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS WHEN IT IS, SO, I MEAN, I CAN STOP HERE.
THERE IS, THE ONLY REASON WE CAN'T TREAT SHORT-TERM RENTALS DIFFERENT THAN THE REST IS BECAUSE STATE LAW SAYS WE CAN'T THAN THE REST OF THE RESIDENTS IS WE CAN DISCRIMINATE AGAINST OTHER TYPES OF RESIDENCES VERSUS OTHER RESIDENTS TO ALLOW DIFFERENT DENSITIES OR HEIGHTS, UM, IN OTHER AREAS.
BUT WE CAN'T TREAT SHORT-TERM RENTALS DIFFERENT THAN LONG-TERM RENTALS.
COUNCILOR ELLA'S THOUGHT THERE AND I, AND I DO APPRECIATE THAT AND, AND I TOO AM VERY INVESTED IN TRYING TO FIND MORE LONG-TERM RENTAL SOLUTIONS IN TOWN.
BUT GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WE FIND OUR TOWN IN NOW, I REALLY BELIEVE THAT THIS IS JUST GONNA RESULT IN MORE MONEY BEING MADE BY SHORT-TERM RENTAL PEOPLE.
I'M NOT READY TO MAKE THIS CHANGE UNTIL WE ACTUALLY GET SOME PROGRESS FROM OUR STATE LEGISLATORS OR OTHERS IN CHANGING THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL PROBLEM WE HAVE IN TOWN.
SO, OKAY, VICE MAYOR, I WENT TO THE, UH, LAND U HOUSING AND LAND USE COMMUNITY MEETING, AND WHEN I LEFT I SAID TO MYSELF ON MY DR DRIVE HOME, WE'VE GOTTA START BALANCING A LITTLE BIT BETTER.
I THINK IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE OUR GOALS TOWARDS ADDITIONAL WORKFORCE HOUSING, WE HAVE TO BE WILLING TO MAKE SOME COMPROMISES THAT WE MIGHT NOT OTHERWISE WANT TO MAKE.
AND I, I LOOKED AT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE REQUIRE THAT DRIVE UP THE COST OF HOUSING.
AND I'M THINKING, YOU KNOW, IN SMALLER HOUSES, MORE WORKFORCE, YOU KNOW, THE, A SMALLER SQUARE FOOTAGE, YOU KNOW, DO WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE A LOT OF THE REQUIREMENTS THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE BECAUSE THEY'RE, THEY'RE DRIVING UP THE, THE, THE PRICES.
SO I STARTED THINKING ABOUT THAT AND I DON'T HAVE SPECIFICS, IT'S JUST, I JUST REALIZE THAT IF WE WANNA ACHIEVE THIS GOAL, IT LOOKS LIKE OTHER THINGS ARE GONNA HAVE TO MAYBE TAKE A BACKSEAT.
RIGHT? AND THOSE ARE THE KIND OF CONVERSATIONS THAT WE'VE HAD WITH SHANNON AND WHY WE WOULD ANTICIPATE THERE MIGHT BE LATER IN THE YEAR A MORE ROBUST, UM, CODE CHANGE PACKAGE ADDRESSING HOUSING.
UM, IT'S JUST, WE WEREN'T QUITE READY TO DO THAT AT THIS POINT.
WELL, MAYBE THAT'S WHERE WE SHOULD PUT THE ADUS THEN MAYBE IT SHOULD BE IN THIS PACKAGE INSTEAD OF JUST PULLING IT OUT SEPARATELY.
I I WANT THEIR, I I KNOW SHANNON IS VERY ARTICULATE AND SHE MAKES A GOOD CASE THAT, THAT THE ADUS CAN BE USED AS AS HOUSING STOCK.
I'M PERSUADED BY THAT AS WELL.
[02:50:01]
AND UH, AND I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT HOUSING IN A PACKAGE.WHAT ARE THE TRADE OFFS THAT WE'RE WILLING TO MAKE TO ACHIEVE HOUSING? SO WAS THERE A REASON WHY WELL, OH, SORRY THAT YOU, THAT YOU DECIDED TO DO THE ADUS AT THIS TIME? UM, WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT IT, WE, AGAIN, AS, AS I SAID EARLIER, WE WERE LOOKING AT IT AS THESE GUEST HOUSES ARE GETTING BUILT AND THEY'RE GETTING BUILT WITHOUT KITCHENS.
AND WE THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS KIND OF AN EASY WAY TO GUESS.
THEY MIGHT BECOME MORE VALUABLE SHORT-TERM RENTALS, BUT IT COULD ALSO INCENTIVIZE PEOPLE TO CONVERT A SHORT-TERM RENTAL INTO A LONG-TERM RENTAL.
WHY? UM, BECAUSE IT PROVIDES A FULL KITCHEN FOR HIGH RENT RESIDENT.
UM, BECAUSE IT'S, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LOOKING TO COME HERE ON VACATION, THEY, THEY MIGHT RENT SOMETHING WITH OR WITHOUT A FULL KITCHEN.
PEOPLE LOOKING TO RENT LONG TERM ARE GOING TO BE MORE INTERESTED IN THE KITCHEN.
UM, A LOT OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE LOOKED AT WERE, UM, YES, THINGS THAT WE, WE DO UNDERSTAND THAT OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE MAKES HOUSING MORE EXPENSIVE TO CONSTRUCT MM-HMM.
UM, BUT WE FELT LIKE A LOT OF THOSE THINGS WE DID WANT TO LOOK AT.
IS THERE A WAY TO ENSURE THAT IF WE'RE GOING TO GIVE UP THESE DESIGN STANDARDS THAT HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED FOR MANY YEARS ARE WE GET ACHIEVING THE RESULTS.
RIGHT? UM, WHEREAS THE KITCHEN ISSUE, IT'S NOT CHANGING THE EXTERIOR OF THE STRUCTURE, THE STRUCTURES THAT ARE ALREADY GETTING BUILT AND ADDING A KITCHEN JUST MIGHT BE SOMETHING.
UM, AND SO THAT IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WE DID FEEL COMFORTABLE BRINGING FORWARD ON ITS OWN, KNOWING THAT THERE MIGHT BE A MORE ROBUST DISCUSSION ABOUT, UM, HOUSING, BUT ALSO UNDERSTANDING THAT WE DON'T WANT TO JUST GIVE UP ALL OF OUR DESIGN STANDARDS AND OUR THOSE REQUIREMENTS.
SO TO MAKE IT CHEAPER TO BUILD SHORT-TERM RENTALS SO THAT RIGHT.
SO, I, I DO HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION.
CAN YOU REMIND ME WHAT IS THE MAXIMUM SIZE OF AN ADU? UH, THE MAXIMUM SIZE IS HALF THE SIZE OF THE MAIN HOUSE UP TO NO, THERE'S NO MAXIMUM.
WELL I THOUGHT THERE WAS A, I THOUGHT THERE WAS A, I THOUGHT IT WAS A MAXIMUM OF THE SIZE OF HALF THE SIZE OF THE HOUSE OR X NO, WHICHEVER IS LESS.
NO, IT'S 750 SQUARE FEET OR HALF THE SIZE OF THE HOUSE, WHICHEVER IS MORE.
SO IF YOU HAVE MORE, MORE SO IF YOU HAVE A 1200 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE, YOU COULD BUILD A 750 SQUARE FOOT GUEST HOUSE.
YOU'RE NOT LIMITED TO HALF THE SIZE.
IF YOU'RE UNDER 1500 SQUARE FEET.
IF YOU HAVE A 6,000 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE, YOU COULD HAVE A 3000 SQUARE FOOT ADU.
OH, WE NEED TO CHANGE THAT PATTERN.
IS IS IT, IS IT TOO LATE TO ADD ANOTHER CHANGE ON AT THIS POINT THAT COMES FROM HERE? BECAUSE THAT'S SOMETHING TO I WOULDN'T NOTICED ANYWAY.
COUNCIL, IT'S NOTICED IT'S A LAND DEVELOPMENT.
COUNCIL MEMBER PUE IS PUT OUT THERE THAT PERHAPS WE JUST LUMPED THIS INTO THESE FUTURE CHANGES THAT ARE COMING AND WE DON'T TAKE ACTION ON THIS PARTICULAR ELEMENT TONIGHT.
I'M VERY AGREEABLE TO THAT AS WELL.
BUT WE STILL HAVE TWO MORE COUNCILS WHO HAVEN'T WAITED IN YET.
SO MELISSA, YOU, YOU WERE FIRST.
SO NO MATTER WHAT WE DO, I SUSPECT, AND I'M GONNA LOOK AT THE CITY ATTORNEY IS ABOUT TO SAY THIS, THAT WHATEVER WE PUT IN ABOUT NEW HOUSING ISN'T GOING TO PREVENT ANY OF THAT HOUSING FROM BEING CONVERTED INTO OR BEING USED AS A SHORT TERM RENTAL.
NOT NOT EXISTING HOUSING OR YEAH.
OR, OR NEW HOUSING, BUT BECAUSE IT'S IN A RESIDENTIAL ZONE.
AND SO THEREFORE AS A RESIDENTS AND STATE LAW DOESN'T HAVE TO TREAT THEM ALL THE SAME.
SO, UM, FOR EXAMPLE, SOME CITIES, UH, PARADISE VALLEY JUST DOESN'T ALLOW YOU TO RENT OUT, UM, ADUS, UM, GUEST HOUSE SEPARATELY PERIOD AT ALL.
SO THEY CAN'T BE USED EITHER AS SHORT TERM OR LONG TERM RENTAL.
UM, SO THERE, THERE ARE OTHER, THERE ARE OTHER, BUT SAY THAT APPLIES UNIFORMLY TO ALL RESIDENCES AND SO IT REDUCES THE NUMBER OF WHAT YOU COULD HAVE HOUSING STOCK.
UM, BUT IT REDUCES THE NUMBER OF SHORT TERM RENTALS ALSO.
WELL, SHORT TERM TERM RENTALS OF A CERTAIN KIND.
SO OF THE SMALLER GUESS HOUSES, ADU, SHORT TERM RENTALS STUFF, OR NOT SMALLER GUEST HOUSE, DEPENDING,
SO EVERY, I MEAN TO CARRIE'S POINT THERE, EVERY UH, GUEST HOUSE IS, IS GONNA BE LIMITED BY LOT SIZE AND LOT COVERAGE AND SETBACKS STILL REGARDLESS OF THAT ABILITY.
AND I DID WANT TO ADDRESS REAL QUICK, MR. MANN COUNSELORS IS, IF IT'S OKAY TO COUNSELOR FURMAN'S POINT, UH, WHAT WE COULD INCENTIVIZE IS YOU COULD INCENTIVIZE THE COST TO CONVERT
[02:55:01]
FROM A A, A KITCHENETTE TO KITCHEN AND THEN AS, AS PART OF THE, IN THE MONETARY INCENTIVE, WOULD, THEY WOULD THEN PLACE A VOLUNTARY DEED RESTRICTION ON THEIR PROPERTY.THAT'S WHAT HE'S TALKING, WE, WE CAN'T MAKE THAT PART OF THE, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AS A REQUIREMENT THAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO DERESTRICT IT IN ORDER TO GET IT.
BUT WE CAN INCENTIVIZE IT THROUGH THE MONETARY.
SO I JUST, I HAVE, UM, JUST KIND OF A STATEMENT MORE THAN A QUESTION.
UH, AS MUCH AS WE HATE THE IDEA THAT, UM, KITCHENS AND ADUS ARE GOING TO BE TURNED INTO SHORT-TERM RENTALS OR THEY'RE ALREADY SHORT-TERM RENTALS, THAT WILL BE ENHANCED BECAUSE TO CONSULAR CAN SELL KINSELLA POINT.
I DON'T REALLY NEED A FULL KITCHEN IF I'M JUST RENTING FOR A WEEKEND, GIVE ME A TOASTER OVEN AND YOU KNOW, A HOT PLATE AND I'M, I'M PRETTY MUCH DONE.
UM, CUZ I'M, I'M GOING OUT AND BRINGING FOOD BACK ANYWAY.
BUT, UM, WHERE THIS I THINK BECOMES INTERESTING AS A COMMUNITY IS WHERE WE THINK ABOUT AGING IN PLACE AND WHERE THOSE ADUS MIGHT BE USED BY A CAREGIVER, UM, WHO AS PART OF THEIR, UH, PAY IS GIVEN A PLACE TO LIVE.
SO WITHOUT A KITCHEN IT MIGHT BE VERY HARD TO GET SOMEONE TO BE A CAREGIVER AT AN AFFORDABLE RATE BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR HOUSING.
SO I, I JUST WANT US TO SORT OF KEEP THAT PARTICULAR CONDITION IN MIND AS WELL.
AND IF YOU HAVE A COMMENT, CAUSE YOU LOOK LIKE YOU'RE ITCHING TO SAY SOMETHING, UM, PLEASE DO, BUT IT JUST FEELS THAT THAT IS A POTENTIAL USE OF THESE ADUS THAT WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD BEAR IN MIND AS A COMMUNITY.
CARRIE, DO YOU HAVE ANY ROUGH IDEA OF HOW MANY APPLICATIONS WE'RE GETTING TO BUILD NEW ADUS ON AN ANNUAL BASIS? UM, GIMME A SECOND.
I, I WON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC NUMBER.
UM, THEY ARE, THEY'RE NOT, UM, SEPARATED OUT IN OUR PERMITTING SYSTEM, UM, BUT IN TRACKING, UM, SO THEY'RE GROUPED IN WITH RESIDENTIAL REMODELS, UM, UNLESS THEY ARE BUILT WITH THE ORIGINAL HOUSE, I WOULD SAY ANECDOTALLY, UM, IN THE LAST, YOU KNOW, THREE OR FOUR YEARS, PRETTY MUCH EVERY EVERY PLAN WE GET IN HAS, IT'S LIKE, OH, THERE'S THEIR AIRBNB, THERE'S THEIR SEPARATE UNIT.
THEY'RE ALL HOUSES ARE PRETTY MUCH BEING BUILT WITH SOME KIND OF LOCK OFF UNIT, SOME KIND OF SOMETHING WITH A SEPARATE ENTRANCE AND A LITTLE WET BAR OR AND A SEPARATE BATHROOM.
I MEAN, THAT'S INSTRUCTIVE RIGHT THERE.
AND SO, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, IN THE LAST, UM, YOU KNOW, SINCE THE SHORT TERM RENTALS WENT IN, WE HAVE SEEN AN INCREASE IN THE RESIDENTIAL REMODELS.
UM, SO WE CAN'T, WE DON'T HAVE THOSE SEPARATED OUT INTO, WHETHER THEY'RE NEW GUEST HOUSES OR IT'S, YOU KNOW, SOME, SOME OTHER REMODEL.
BUT I WOULD SAY SINCE IN THE LAST FEW YEARS ESPECIALLY, WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF PEOPLE WANTING TO REMODEL THEIR HOUSES AND A LOT OF THAT IS TO, UM, FACILITATE SDR.
AND AS FAR AS THE CODE IS CONCERNED, AND, AND WE SAY YOU CAN'T HAVE A FULL KITCHEN, IS IT REALLY? BUT YOU CAN'T PUT IN A RANGE? OR IS IT THAT YOU CAN ONLY HAVE ONE 10 VOLT ELECTRICITY? IT'S BOTH.
SO YOU CAN'T HAVE, SO YOU CAN'T RUN TWO 20, YOU CAN'T RUN TWO 20, YOU CAN'T RUN A GAS LINE, UM, AND YOU CAN'T HAVE A, A STOVE.
BUT IF WE KIND OF LOOK AT LIKE HOW COOKING TECHNOLOGY IS EMERGING AND NEEDING TO BE FLEXIBLE IN THE, THERE ARE LOTS OF APPLIANCES, YOU CAN GET THE PLUG INTO ONE 10.
I MEAN, THERE'S WIZBANG COUNTERTOP OVENS NOW THAT YOU CAN DO A FULL MEAL IN THERE, TWO DIFFERENT COMPARTMENTS AND YOU CAN HAVE YOUR INDUCTION PLATE AND YES.
SO I JUST KIND OF WONDER, DOES IT REALLY MATTER ALL THAT MUCH, NUMBER ONE AND NUMBER TWO, I AGREE WITH, I THINK A GROWING TREND OVER HERE OF LET'S TABLE THIS TILL THERE'S THE BROADER PACKAGE OF HOUSING, UH, CONCERNS FOR LATER IN THE YEAR WOULD BE KIND OF WHERE I WOULD AGREE WITH A COUPLE OF THE FOLKS THAT HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT THEY'D LIKE US.
COULD I SPEAK TO THAT POINT? YEAH, I, WELL, I WILL, UH, JUST GO AHEAD.
WHEN DO YOU EXPECT THAT WOULD COME BEFORE US? UM, I'M NOT GONNA HOLD YOU TO IT, BUT GENERALLY IF, IF THIS YEAR, I WOULD HOPE SO.
I'M SORRY I DIDN'T HEAR THAT ANSWER.
[03:00:01]
I WOULD SAY I WOULD HOPE SO.I MEAN, ONCE YOU CONSIDER THAT ONE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO SIT DOWN WITH SHANNON AND KIND OF, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE CONVERSATION TONIGHT WILL HELP GUIDE THAT DISCUSSION AS WELL.
UM, AND IT MIGHT BE THAT WE COME BACK AND SAY THERE'S REALLY NOTHING LIKE WE CAN MAKE THESE CHANGES, BUT THERE'S STILL NOTHING WE CAN DO TO INCENTIVIZE THEM TO BE LONG-TERM RENTALS.
AND I DON'T KNOW HOW COUNCIL, UM, WOULD REACT TO THAT.
AND SO WE MIGHT DO A WORK SESSION OR SOMETHING TO KIND OF GET A BETTER SENSE OF THE DIRECTION THAT WE WANT TO GO.
AND IT'D BE NICE TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, SHANNON HERE AS PART OF THAT DISCUSSION AS WELL.
UM, SO WHEN YOU SAID THIS YEAR, WERE YOU TALKING ABOUT CALENDAR YEAR OR FISCAL YEAR? OH, NOT FISCAL YEAR.
YOU HAVE LIKE TWO MONTHS LEFT IN THAT
UM, I MEAN, EVEN IF IT WAS READY TO GO TO, WE HAVE TO GO TO PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION FIRST.
SO YEAH, IT WOULD PROBABLY JUST DEPEND ON WHAT WE CAN, YOU KNOW, IF WE ARE, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THE LEGAL PARAMETERS OF THAT, UM, WHAT WE CAN ACTUALLY DO ON SOME OF THOSE ITEMS. I KNOW THERE'S ANOTHER, THERE.
WE, WE KNOW, WE, WE DO KNOW THAT A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REQUIRES INCREASES THE COST OF CONSTRUCTION, WHICH, UM, BUT HOW MUCH OF THAT DO WE WANT TO GIVE UP IF THEY'RE JUST GONNA BECOME SHORT-TERM RENTALS VERSUS HOW CAN WE IN, IS THERE A WAY TO INCENTIVIZE, AND I DON'T KNOW, LEGALLY, AND SO WE'LL HAVE TO WORK WITH, UM, KURT AND GET SOME GOOD ANSWERS ON THAT AND KIND OF COME BACK WITH SOMETHING.
BUT IF IT'S, I KNOW THE, THE KITCHEN ISSUE FELT LIKE THE MOST PRESSING, AND SO IF THAT IS GOING TO BE TABLED, IT MIGHT SPUR, YOU KNOW, MIGHT PUT A LITTLE MORE URGENCY IN, UM, COMING BACK WITH SOMETHING ELSE.
AND OF COURSE, AND YOU KNOW, THE MAXIMUM SIZE IS NOW ON MY LIST AS WELL.
AND OF COURSE, WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PREEXISTING GUEST HOUSES HAVE ALREADY BEEN RE UH, RETROFITTED WITH STOVES ANYWAY, SO YEAH.
IT'S, IT'S AN, A CODE ENFORCEMENT ISSUE AS WELL.
AND SO, OKAY, MAYOR, COULD WE, I MEAN, THERE'S SOME UNANSWERED QUESTIONS.
WE HAVE A VERY LIGHT, UH, SCHEDULE FOR OUR NEXT MEETING.
IS IT POSSIBLE THAT WE COULD BRING SOMETHING BACK TO THE NEXT MEETING ON A COUPLE OF THESE? I, I, NOT THE WHOLE HOUSE, OBVIOUSLY NOT THE FULL PACKAGE OF, I WOULD RATHER WAIT FOR THE WHOLE PACKAGE TO COME FORWARD BECAUSE I THINK MM-HMM.
AND, AND THE, UH, SO SIZE OF A GUEST GUEST HOUSE.
I, I THINK THAT, UM, ONE OF, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DO WHEN WE CREATE A PROCESS FOR UPDATING SOMETHING LIKE THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE IS THERE IS, THERE ARE PUBLIC NOTIFICATION REQUIREMENTS.
IT DOES GO TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION HAS NOT DISCUSSED THIS ITEM AT ALL.
WELL, THE ADUS THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE NOT DISCUSSED HAVING A MAXIMUM SIZE.
SO I THINK THAT FOR THAT PIECE, IT MIGHT MAKE MORE SENSE TO BRING IT BACK WITH A FULLER PACKAGE OF HOUSING RELATED YES.
UM, ITEMS AND ALLOW P AND Z TO ALSO VET THAT.
I'M JUST THINKING THAT IF SHANNON WAS HERE AND SHE MADE A CASE TO US OF WHY WE SHOULD MOVE FORWARD ON THE ADUS MORE QUICKLY MM-HMM.
I DO THINK THAT I, I MEAN, I'M NOT SURE THAT ANYONE ON COUNCIL HAS NOT HEARD SHANNON'S SPIEL, WHICH SHE ALSO TALKED ABOUT, I BELIEVE IN JANUARY REGARDING HER THOUGHT THAT THE CREATION OF MORE UNITS THAT COULD POSSIBLY BE USED FOR LONG-TERM RENTALS IS A GOOD THING.
I THINK SOME OF THE POINTS THAT YOU'VE BROUGHT UP THIS EVENING ABOUT THE FACT THAT ONCE YOU GIVE THIS AS A RIGHT, YOU WILL NEVER TAKE IT BACK.
SO IN UNDERSTANDING, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE, THE LOSS STANDS ON THIS ISSUE.
I, I'M NOT SURE THIS, THAT AT THIS POINT WE'RE READY TO, TO PULL THE TRIGGER ON THAT.
SO LET, SHE WOULD HAVE NO WAY TO EVEN KNOW WHETHER OR NOT IT'S BEEN SUCCESSFUL MM-HMM.
AND, AND SO IF THERE WAS SOME KIND OF INCENTIVE PROGRAM OF SOME SORT, THAT COULD AT LEAST ALLOW US THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRACK
[03:05:01]
SOME OF THIS ACTIVITY TO SEE IF, YOU KNOW, ARE, ARE WE JUST CREATING MORE STR OR, OR HAVE WE DONE WHAT WAS INTENDED, WHICH IS ALLOW OPPORTUNITY FOR MORE LONG-TERM RENTALS MIGHT BE ANOTHER PIECE TO THINK ABOUT BEFORE WE PULL THE TRIGGER ON IT.WELL, I CAN APPRECIATE WHAT CARRIE SAID BEFORE THAT IF WE POSTPONE THIS PARTICULAR ITEM AND POSSIBLY THE SECOND ITEM AS WELL, THAT IT MIGHT SPUR THE, YOU KNOW, THE OVERALL, UH, TOPIC TO BE A LITTLE SOONER.
DIDN'T YOU JUST SAY THAT? I MEAN, IT COULD, UH, IT COULD.
I'M JUST SAYING IT COULD, UH, BECAUSE OF THE URGENCY OF, OF YOU ALSO WANNA COME BACK WHILE IT'S FRESH IN YOUR MIND.
SO I DON'T GIVE YOU TOO MUCH TIME TO FORGET ABOUT THIS CONVERSATION.
IT'S NOT ONE I FORGET ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE HOUSING QUESTION.
JESSICA, HAVE YOU GOTTEN APPLICATIONS FOR MANUFACTURED HOUSES? I MEAN, HOW MANY DO YOU GET THAT WHERE THEY COME AND SAY, WE CAN'T MEET YOUR MASSING REQUIREMENT BECAUSE MANUFACTURED HOUSE, OF COURSE, THAT'S ANOTHER ISSUE WHERE THEY ALL BECOME AS SHORT-TERM RENTALS ANYWAY.
SO, OR COULD YEAH, WE DON'T, I CAN GET SOME NUMBERS HERE.
I, WE DON'T GET A LOT OF MANUFACTURING.
I THINK SO PER, WE GET ABOUT THREE TO FOUR A YEAR.
THANK IS THAT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T MEET OUR REQUIREMENTS? SO THERE'S VERY FEW ZONES WHERE THEY'RE ALLOWED, THEY'RE ALLOWED KIND OF, IT'S AN RS SIX AND THERE'S AN RMH ZONE, SO IT'S VERY A LIMITED GEOGRAPHICAL AREA, AND THERE'S NOT A LOT OF VACANT LOTS.
SO WHAT WE SEE A LOT IS MANUFACTURED HOME REPLACEMENTS.
UM, AND, BUT WE DO HAVE MANY CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE THAT, UM, THE HOMES THAT ARE AVAILABLE DON'T MEET OUR REQUIREMENTS.
AND SO THEN THAT'S WHERE WE HAD, UM, PUT IN THE ALLOWANCE A COUPLE YEARS AGO TO SAY THAT A NEW STRUCTURE BUILT WITHIN FIVE FEET OF THE MANUFACTURED HOME CAN COUNT AS THAT MASSING SO THAT YOU'RE NOT TRYING TO FIND, UM, A MANUFACTURED HOME THAT MEANS MASSING, YOU CAN ADD ON THE DETACHED GARAGE OR THE SHED AND ALL THAT.
SO, UM, BUT THE MASSING REQUIREMENT STARTS AT A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET.
AND SO IF IT'S UNDER 1500 SQUARE FEET, THEY DON'T HAVE TO BUILD THAT GARAGE.
AND SO THEY'RE POTENTIALLY BUILDING A SHED OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO, UM, MEET THOSE REQUIREMENTS.
WHEREAS IF IT BUMPS UP TO 1500, THE GARAGE REQUIREMENT WOULD THEN COME INTO PLAY AT THAT POINT, AND THEY COULD USE THAT AS THEIR SECOND MASS.
SO, UH, WHERE DO WE ALL STAND ON THESE TWO ITEMS ABOUT YOU WANT TABLE, THE, UM, UH, GUEST HOUSE AND MOVE FORWARD WITH THE, UH, UH, WHAT IT, WOULD IT BE CONSIDERED SINGLE WIDE OR DOUBLE WIDE? IT WOULD JUST BE A MANUFACTURED HOME.
MANUFACTURED HOME, WHATEVER THAT LOOKS LIKE.
ANY QUESTIONS THAT I'M IN FAVOR OF MOVING AHEAD WITH BOTH OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS AS THEY CAME? OKAY.
JESSICA, I'M IN FAVOR OF MOVING FORWARD WITH THE SECOND ONE AND PUT IN THE FIRST ONE OFF.
UH, I, I AGREE WITH THAT OPINION.
PUT OFF THE FULL KITCHENS, APPROVE THE MASKING REQUIREMENTS.
I AGREE WITH THAT, UH, AS WELL, HOLLY.
MOSTLY BECAUSE THE POINT TAKEN THAT ONCE YOU GIVE SOMEBODY SOMETHING, YOU CAN'T TAKE IT AWAY.
SO, UM, I THINK DELAYING IT HOPEFULLY NOT FOREVER WOULD, UM, WOULD BE PROBABLY THE PROPER THING TO DO.
BRIAN AGREE WITH THE MAJORITY.
UM, THE LAST THING ON MY LIST WAS THE COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATION REGARDING OUR GALLERIES.
UM, AS STATED IN YOUR AGENDA BILL, THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION FELT THAT ART GALLERY SHOULD BE GIVEN THEIR OWN DEFINITION.
UM, I WAS NOT THINKING QUICK ENOUGH ON MY FEET AT THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION HEARING, BUT AS WE LOOKED INTO WHAT THAT WOULD MEAN, SEPARATING THE DEFINITION, IT WOULD MEAN A NEW USE CATEGORY, A NEW PARKING REQUIREMENTS TO MAKE EVERYTHING LINE UP.
UM, AND IN LOOKING AT MAYBE SOME OF THE REASONS WHY ART GALLERIES WERE INCLUDED IN INDOOR RECREATION, IT WAS KIND OF THE CAPACITY OF A BUILDING.
UM, THE BUILDING CODE PUTS THEM ALL IN THE SAME CATEGORY AS WELL.
SO WE CAN SEPARATE THEM OUT, BUT WE WOULD JUST MIRROR THE
[03:10:01]
USE STANDARDS FOR THE INDOOR RECREATION, OR WE CAN LEAVE IT AS IS THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, UM, WANTED IT SEPARATE.KATHY, I UNDERSTAND THAT THEY WANTED IT SEPARATE, BUT I'M STILL NOT CLEAR ON EXACTLY WHY, BECAUSE I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM THAT'S TRYING TO BE ADDRESSED.
SO AGAIN, I WAS NOT THERE THINKING I WAS NOT THINK SO.
I THINK THEY WERE JUST MORE LOOKING AT THE DEFINITION AND IT'S, UM, INDOOR RECREATION FACILITY IS DEFINED AND INCLUDES ART GALLERIES UNDER THAT MM-HMM.
AND SO AS THEY WERE LOOKING THROUGH IT, THEY JUST FELT THAT THAT DIDN'T, THAT ART GALLERIES DIDN'T FIT THE DEF DIDN'T MM-HMM.
SO THEY THOUGHT IT SHOULD BE SEPARATE.
AND SO THAT WAS THEIR RECOMMENDATION, BUT WE DIDN'T THINK AS THEY WERE MAKING THAT AND DISCUSSING THAT, I WASN'T THINKING THROUGH ALL OF THE IMPLICATIONS.
AND AS WE WERE PREPARING THIS PACKET, I WAS SAT DOWN, THOUGHT THROUGH THE IMPLICATIONS, AND WE HAVE DEFINITIONS FOR THINGS THAT ARE MM-HMM.
AND HERE'S ANOTHER QUESTION TO THAT.
IF INSTEAD OF CREATING A, A WHOLE NEW DEFINITION MM-HMM.
IF WE, INSTEAD OF CREATING A NEW DEFINITION, IF WE WERE GONNA CHANGE IT, AND AGAIN, I DON'T SEE THAT THERE'S A COMPELLING REASON AT THE MOMENT TO CHANGE IT, BUT IF IT WAS GONNA CH CHANGE, WHY WOULDN'T IT JUST MOVE THEM INTO RETAIL? AND WHAT ARE THE PARKING REQUIREMENT DIFFERENCES OF THOSE? UM, IT'S, WHY IS THERE A PARKING REQUIREMENT DIFFERENCE FROM IF I GO INTO A STORE, I JUST WANNA KNOW WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE MM-HMM.
LIKE CARRIE SAID, THERE IS NO PROBLEM AT THIS DRIVE TO BE FIXED IT.
BUT, UH, THIS, HE'S ASKING ANOTHER QUESTION, LIKE MY QUESTION ANSWERED.
I BELIEVE THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT FOR RETAIL VERSUS INDOOR RECREATION WITH THE IDEA THAT AN INDOOR RECREATION'S LIKE A BOWLING ALLEY OR A RIGHT BILLIARDS HALL
UM, AND AN ART GALLERY IS MORE SEEN AS YOU'RE, YOU HAVE A LITTLE MORE SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO WANDER AROUND RATHER THAN A RETAIL STORE.
BUT, BUT IF YOU'RE OKAY, IF YOU'RE A RETAIL, AGAIN, I'M NOT SEEING, I'M, I'M SORRY, THAT DOESN'T RESONATE.
BECAUSE IF I WANNA GO IN AND BUY A $6,000 PIECE OF ART, OR IF I WANNA GO IN AND BUY A $16 T-SHIRT, I'M STILL ONE PERSON.
I PARKED SOMEWHERE ELSE, I'M GOING INTO THE ESTABLISHMENT.
HOW IS THE USE, HOW IS THE PARKING DIFFERENT BASED ON THE USE THAT I'M ONE PERSON FOR ONE PURCHASE OF ONE ITEM.
SO AGAIN, THIS GOES, OKAY, JUST A MINUTE.
LET ME LOOK UP THE PARKING DIFFERENCES.
UM, I JUST THOUGHT THAT RE MOVING IT IN IF IT WAS GONNA MOVE, CUZ I DON'T AGAIN SEE A REASON FOR CHANGE, BUT IF THERE WAS A COMPELLING REASON FOR A CHANGE, MOVING IT TO RETAIL MIGHT BE EASIER THAN CREATING SOMETHING THAT WAS ALL NEW.
AND I, TO ME, THEY SEEM SIMILAR, SO I'M LOOKING FOR YOU TO TELL ME WHY THEY WOULDN'T BE.
SO AN INDOOR RECREATION FACILITY REQUIRES A LITTLE LESS PARKING THAN A RETAIL.
UM, AND WITH, AGAIN, WITH THE IDEA BEING THAT IF IT'S A BOWLING ALLEY, THEN YEAH, BUT I DON'T WANT, INDOOR RECREATION ISN'T FACTORING INTO MY, SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ART GALLERIES, I THINK, I KNOW IN THE OLD CODE, UM, ART, ART GALLERIES HAD A DIFFERENT PARKING REQUIREMENT AS WELL.
SO IT COULD HAVE JUST BEEN A CARRYOVER FROM THAT WHERE THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN CONSIDERED LIKE A RETAIL ESTABLISHMENT.
MAYBE WITH THE THINKING THAT A LARGE PIECE OF ART IS TAKING UP MORE SPACE THAN A T-SHIRT.
I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE THINKING WAS, BUT I KNOW IT'S ALWAYS BEEN DIFFERENT.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHY, AGAIN, AS I SAID, A ONE PERSON MAKING ONE PURCHASE OF ONE, I DON'T, CAN WE MOVE ON? YEAH.
IF I COULD, PETE, I DON'T YOU'LL HAVE NOTHING.
WE JUST WANT A FOLLOW UP QUESTION ON THIS.
I, I, WHAT I WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT DOING IS MAKING IT MORE DIFFICULT TO OPEN AN ART STUDIO THAN IT CURRENTLY IS.
SO I, AND I STILL DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION.
I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION EITHER.
THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PARKING REQUIREMENT IS THEN FOR RETAIL AND HOW THAT WOULD MAKE IT HARDER OR FOR IF AN ART GALLERY WAS CONSIDERED A REAL TALE ESTABLISHMENT.
BECAUSE AGAIN, I AGREE WITH YOU COMPLETELY.
I DON'T WANNA MAKE IT HARDER FOR AN ART GALLERY TO OPEN, I WANT ENCOURAGE ART AND ART GALLERIES.
SO, WHICH CREATING A NEW CLASSIFICATION MIGHT ACTUALLY MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO CREATE AN ART GALLERY.
SO PUTTING IT WITH INDOOR RECREATION, AGAIN, IT MIRRORS THE BUILDING CODE.
STEVE CAN SPEAK TO THAT, WHAT HIS THOUGHTS BEHIND THAT.
BUT, UM, FOR PARKING, IT IS A LITTLE LESS PARKING FOR AN INDOOR RECREATION FACILITY.
[03:15:01]
YOU MOVED IT TO RETAIL, THE ART GALLERIES COULD POTENTIALLY REQUIRE A LITTLE MORE PARKING.PETE DID YOU THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? NO, I DIDN'T THINK SO.
STEVE IS GETTING READY TO SPEAK
UM, A AS CARRIE STATED, UM, WHAT WE HAVE IN OUR CURRENT CODE MIRRORS WHAT THE BUILDING COAT SAYS, AND IT'S BASED UPON THE INTENSITY OF USE.
YOU COULD LOOK AT AN ART GALLERY.
AS A RETAIL ESTABLISHMENT, I'M ONE PERSON GOING IN TO BUY ONE PAINTING.
HISTORICALLY YOU WILL SEE MUCH LESS PEOPLE IN AN ART GALLERY BUYING PAINTINGS THAN YOU WILL IN A PAINT STORE BUYING PAINTBRUSHES OR, OR WHATEVER.
HISTORICALLY, IT'S THE INTENSITY OF THE USE, NOT ACTUALLY THE FUNCTION.
AND SO THE BUILDING CODE ALSO LOOKS AT THAT INTENSITY OF USE AND, AND COMPARES IT WITH OTHER FACILITIES AND USES THAT ARE NOT SIMILAR IN NATURE, BUT SIMILAR IN THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA BE IN THAT BUILDING.
SO AS WE'RE LOOKING AT PARKING IS BASED UPON THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT'S GONNA BE IN THAT BUILDING.
THE BUILDING CODE IS LOOKING AT THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE IN THAT BUILDING FOR MEANS OF EGRESS.
SO THEY USE THE SAME THOUGHT PROCESS FOR DIFFERENT REASONS.
HERE IT'S PARKING BUILDING CODE IS MEANS OF EGRESS.
SO AN INDOOR RECREATION FACILITY HAS LESS OF A PARKING REQUIREMENT THAN A RETAIL.
SO THAT, OKAY, SO THAT WOULD MAKE IT HARDER, EASIER FOR NO, IT WOULD BE EASIER.
EASIER WOULD BE EASIER FOR ART COUNTY BEZOS LESSER PARKING REQUIREMENT.
I THINK A LESS OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO COME INTO THE STORE.
IT'S CUZ THEY'RE MAKE IT EASIER FOR THEM TO HAVE ONE.
THERE'D BE LESS REQUIRED PARKING.
I MEAN, JUST TO WRAP WHERE I AM ON THIS, I'M, I'M THINKING THAT THERE SHOULD NOT BE A CHANGE.
I'M THINKING IT SHOULD STAY WHERE IT IS.
AND I THINK CAN WE JUST DO A QUICK THUMBS UP AND THUMBS OUT? CAUSE I THINK PEOPLE ARE QUESTION, I THINK THEY'RE ALL ALREADY, YOU'VE GOT THEIR THUMBS IN THE AIR
MELISSA AND BRIAN HAVEN'T WEIGHED IN.
SO BEFORE WE EVEN DO, AND JESSICA ALSO HAS, BUT BRIAN DID HAVE HIS HAND UP FIRST.
OH, I WOULD LOVE TO JUST CUT TO THE CHASE ON THIS.
I MEAN, IT SOUNDS LIKE, I DON'T SEE ANY HEADS NODDING SAYING WE SHOULD DO THIS.
I MEAN, IT SOUNDS LIKE THIS IS A DON'T DO IT.
IT'S, WELL IF IT'S MAKING IT EASIER FOR ART GALLERIES BECAUSE LESS, LESS REQUIREMENTS FOR PARKING TO LEAVE IT ALONE, LEAVE IT ALONE.
LEAVING IT LEAVE BETTER IS WHAT KEEPS IT EASIER FOR ART GALLERIES.
SO THAT UP OR DOWN FOR LEAVE? THAT'S WHAT I SAID.
LEAVE IT ALONE IS LEAVE IT ALONE.
YES, KURT, WHAT ELSE YOU GOT? THAT'S ALL I HAD ON MY LIST IS THE MAJOR THINGS THAT STAFF SAW AND THE THINGS THAT PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION DISCUSSED.
BUT IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS OFF OUR LIST.
WE ARE, WELL, I WANNA PUT SOMETHING BACK TO WHERE WE WERE BEFORE.
IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU, YOU THINK, OR THE COUNCIL, THINGS THAT WAS MISSED FROM THE ORIGINAL LIST THAT THEY WANT TO DISCUSS? AND, AND CARRIE, WHILE THEY BRING THAT UP, COULD YOU PUT THE CHANGES UP ON THE SCREEN SO COUNCIL CAN ADOPT THEM AS AMENDED IF WE GET IT UP THERE AND, AND WE CAN ROLL THROUGH THEM REAL QUICK THEN.
DOING I NEED TO SAVE THEM TO THE ENERGIZE THE BUNNY.
SORRY, I'VE BEEN WORKING ON MY COMPUTER.
I NEED TO GET IT ON THE OTHER ONE.
AND AGAIN, MAY JUST POINT OUT THERE WERE OTHER ISSUES ON THE WHOLE WELL, THAT'S WHAT I WAS JUST SAYING.
I WANNA MAKE SURE YOU HAVE YOUR QUESTIONS.
OKAY, SO THE CHANGES THAT I HAVE SO FAR, UM, FROM THE DOCUMENT THAT WAS IN YOUR PACKET, UM, WHAT ARE, SO THIS ONE WE'RE, UM, NOT DOING ANYTHING WITH THE KITCHENS AND GUEST HOUSES RIGHT NOW.
UM, BUT UNDERSTANDING THAT WE WILL BRING BACK SOME CHANGES REGARDING HOUSING.
SO CHANGING THE OHB S TO A ONE TO ONE RATIO.
LET MAKE SURE I TRACKING CHANGES.
[03:20:02]
SO, SO THE OHB HAS BECOME A ONE-TO-ONE RATIO THERE.MAKING THE OHVS CONDITIONALLY PERMITTED IN ALL ZONES OR THE THREE ZONES THERE.
UM, OKAY THEN WE HAVE CHANGING THE LIGHTING DATE FROM 2030 TO 2028.
UM, AND THEN NOT ACTING ON THE INDOOR RECREATION FACILITY DEFINITION CHANGE.
WHAT ELSE? UH, KATHY HAS JUST WANTS TO GO DOWN THE LIST.
LET'S SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE.
CAN I ASK A QUESTION ABOUT ONE THIS OKAY, SURE.
SO ON THE OHVS RIGHT NOW, IT'S PERMITTED IN LODGING ZONING? YES.
SO IN, UM, ARTICLE TWO, SECTION 2.24 D FOUR, THE, THE TABLES, THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS FOR RAINWATER HARVESTING TANKS, LOOKING AT THEM AND HAVING THE SAME STANDARDS AS SOLAR.
WHAT, WHAT ARE THE SIZES GENERALLY OF RAINWATER HARVESTING TANKS? THEY COME IN A VARIETY OF SIZES.
THEY CAN BE QUITE LARGE, BUT THAT EXCEPTION WOULD LIMIT HEIGHT TO EIGHT FEET.
UM, IF IT'S GONNA GO IN THE SETBACK, SAME.
UM, THAT I HAVE THIS ON AND I CAN'T HEAR WITH IT ON.
SO
IF IT'S GONNA GO IN THE SETBACKS, THAT'S THE HEIGHT THAT THE GROUND MOUNTED SOLAR WOULD BE LIMITED TO.
IF IT'S, IF IT MEETS SETBACKS, IT CAN BE LARGER, THEY CAN GET QUITE BIG.
SO THAT WOULD PUT, ACTUALLY PUT A LIMITATION ON.
UM, ANOTHER QUESTION THAT I HAD IS FIVE POINTS.
ARTICLE FIVE, 5.6 D ONE D, WHICH IS SCREENING FOR ROOF MOUNTED EQUIPMENT.
UM, SO THIS REMOVES ANY SCREENING REQUIREMENT, WHICH FOR SOLAR.
COULD YOU GIMME THE RATIONALE FOR THAT? UM, SO SOLAR IS CONSIDERED MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT AND ME ROOFTOP MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT IS REQUIRED TO BE SCREENED.
UM, IT'S NEVER BEEN ENFORCED FOR SOLAR.
UM, BECAUSE IS THAT, BECAUSE GENERALLY SOLAR IS INSTALLED AFTER A BUILDING IS CONSTRUCTED AND THERE'S, UM, IT'S REQUIRING ADDITIONAL SCREENING COULD POTENTIALLY CAST SHADE ON SOLAR PANELS AND IT COULD ALSO INCREASE THE COST OF INSTALLING SOLAR WHERE IT'S INFEASIBLE.
BECAUSE NOW WE'RE SAYING YOU HAVE TO BUILD UP DIFFERENT THINGS.
AND IN TALKING WITH OUR SUSTAINABILITY TEAM, UM, PART OF, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S IN THE CLIMATE ACTION PLAN, BUT ALS BUT IT'S A GENERALLY, UM, KIND OF A, A BEST PRACTICES IS THAT MAKING ALTERNATIVE ENERGY MORE VISIBLE TO THE COMMUNITY IS SEEN AS A POSITIVE SO THAT PEOPLE SEE IT AND KNOW THAT IT'S THERE RATHER THAN TRYING TO HIDE IT.
SO, UM, IT WOULD, THIS WOULD MAINTAIN THE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS FOR LIKE ROOFTOP AIR CONDITIONER UNITS AND THAT SORT OF THING, BUT NOT REQUIRE IT FOR SOLAR, FOR SOLAR PANELS.
CARRIE, I'M NOT SURE HOW I FEEL ABOUT THIS BECAUSE, UM, WE WANNA ENCOURAGE SOLAR, WE DON'T WANT TO ADD TO EXPENSES OR ANYTHING, BUT I'M ALSO SENSITIVE TO A NEIGHBOR'S VIEW OF A PROPERTY, UM, AND HOW THAT MIGHT, YOU KNOW, BE IMPACTED WITHOUT SOME SCREEN.
AND WE WANT SCREENING THERE IN PLACE TO, FOR MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT BECAUSE THERE'S A VIEW IMPACT EVEN THOUGH, WELL, LET ME NOT GO WITH THAT ONE.
UM, SO THIS ONE IS A PART OF THE SOLAR PANEL.
I'M SURE THAT THIS IS, THAT I'M SOLD ON THIS ONE.
WELL, LET ME ASK YOU THIS COUNSELOR.
[03:25:01]
IF IT'S A HIGH PITCHED ROOF AND THE SOLAR PANEL ARE ARE ON THE HIGH PITCH, HOW WOULD YOU, YOU HAVE TO ENCO.HOW ARE THE ENTIRE, THERE ARE MANY HOUSES THAT ARE, HAVE FLAT ROOFS HERE AND ROME, DOES THIS ONLY PERTAIN TO PITCHED ROOFS? NO, NO.
I, THIS PERTAINS TO ALL ROOFS.
LIKE I SAID, THE WAY IT'S BEEN, IT HAS NOT BEEN NECESSARILY ENFORCED, I'M AWARE OF, OF A SITUATION WHERE A NEIGHBOR PUT SOLAR ON THEIR ROOF AND ANOTHER NEIGHBOR WAS IMPACTED BY THAT VIEW AND WAS NOW LOOKING OUT ON THE SOLAR MOUND AND IT WAS ANGLED AND IT RAISED WHAT THEY WERE PREVIOUSLY LOOKING ON WAS HERE AND NOW BECAUSE OF THE SOLAR, YOU KNOW, PANELS BEING THAT WAS UP HERE AND THERE WAS NOTHING TO SCREEN THAT.
AND THERE WAS NOTHING TO REQUIRE THAT IT STAY DOWN TO THE LEVEL OF THE PARAPET OR ANYTHING.
AND I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THESE IMPACTS ON, ON A NEIGHBOR.
UH, JESSICA, YOU HAD A COMMENT? YEAH, I THINK THIS IS A, A SITUATION WHERE OUR TWO POLICIES CONFLICT.
AND WE HAVE TO DECIDE WHICH ONE IS MORE IMPORTANT.
UM, I THINK IF WE, IF WE'RE SERIOUS ABOUT ENCOURAGING SOLAR, WE DON'T DO ANYTHING THAT ADDS, DOUBLES THE COST.
UM, THE PITCH ROOF, WHILE THERE ARE FLAT ROOFS, A LOT OF THEM AREN'T.
AND YOU WOULD BE REQUIRING FAIRLY SUBSTANTIAL
I FRANKLY DON'T SEE THAT AS AN IMPROVEMENT OVER THE, THE PANELS THEMSELVES.
I CAN SEE THAT IT MIGHT, IN FACT, I MEAN IT'S, I I I I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT, BUT I, I COME OUT ON THE SIDE OF, IF WE WANNA ENCOURAGE SOLAR, WE HAVE TO MAKE IT DOABLE AND AS CHEAP AS POSSIBLE.
AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S A MIDDLE GROUND HERE, I GUESS IS WHAT I'M SAYING.
AND WE SORT OF HAVE TO COME OUT ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER OF IT.
AND I COME OUT ON THE SIDE OF NOT REQUIRING IT, OF GOING WITH THE, THE CHANGE IN THE LDC.
PETE, DO YOU HAVE A POSITION ON THIS? I SUPPORT THE CHANGE, NOT, YOU MEAN NOT I SUPPORT WHAT, WHAT'S WHAT JESSICA SAID.
SUPPORT AS DO I VICE MAYOR MELISSA.
YEAH, I, I JUST WANNA MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT SOLAR.
CAUSE I HAVE SOLAR PANELS ON MY ROUTE, AND IF I HAD TO SCREEN THOSE SOLAR PANELS, ALL THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE ABOVE ME, I'D HAVE TO HAVE NO SOLAR PANELS BECAUSE THERE'D BE NO SUN.
SO I EITHER GET TO HAVE SOLAR PANELS AND DO RENEWABLE ENERGY, OR I HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE AESTHETIC ONLY FOR MY NEIGHBORS.
AND SO I'M DEFINITELY ON THE SIDE OF RENEWABLE ENERGY.
WELL, I, NO, THAT'S NOT CORRECT.
I WAS ASKING A QUESTION TO RAISE IT FOR CONVERSATION.
IT JUST WASN'T A, AN US AND THEM VOTE.
BUT ANYWAY, SINCE YOU HAVE YOUR, YOUR POSITION, UM, SO MASSING, SO 5.7 F TWO A, UM, MM-HMM.
PUTTING THIS UP TO A, A FOURTH VISUAL STORY FROM THIS, NOT, NOT ACROSS THE ENTIRE MASS, BUT FOR A PORTION OF IT, IT'LL LOOK LIKE A FOURTH STORY BECAUSE OF THE HOUSING FOR THE ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT.
WHY WOULDN'T WE WANNA CONSIDER THAT IN THE MASSING? WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I BELIEVE ELEVATORS, SO THE WAY IT'S CURRENTLY WRITTEN, IT WOULDN'T INCLUDE THAT, UM, WITH THE ONE ON SHELBY, WITH IT BEING AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY COUNCIL HAS SOME ALLOWANCES THERE.
UM, SO CURRENTLY THEY DON'T, WE WOULD JUST BE THE, THE CHANGE HERE IS TO ENSURE THAT, UM, DIFFERENT ROOF PITCHES CAN COUNT.
SO IT'S, UM, NOT EXEMPTING THAT.
SO, BUT THAT, OKAY, SO USING THAT POTENTIAL AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECT AS AN EXAMPLE, THAT WAS JUST ONE.
[03:30:01]
ALLOWS FOR THREE STORY, EVEN IF YOU'RE COMING IN AS A SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S GOING TO BE ALLOWED THERE, NOT AFFORDABLE.RIGHT? BUT AGAIN, YOU'RE BUILDING SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA GO UP TO THREE STORIES, WHICH IS A CHANGE ANYWAY AND IS A MORE MASS AND VISUAL OBSTRUCTION.
RIGHT? AND THEN IF WE'RE NOT COUNTING THE STUFF THAT'S ON THE ROOF IN THE MASSING, WE'RE CREATING SOMETHING LARGER I THINK THEN MAY HAVE BEEN INTENDED BY WHAT WAS PASSED FOR THAT C F A.
AND I HAVE A QUESTION FOR ANDY.
BECAUSE I THINK AT, AT A CERTAIN LEVEL, UH, ELEVATORS MAY, MAYBE STEVE WOULD KNOW, ELEVATORS DON'T REQUIRE THE, THE, THE HOUSING ON TOP AND THE, THEY DON'T WORK BY CABLING, THEY WORK BY HYDRAULIC PISTON AND THEY REQUIRE A LOT LESS FOR, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HEIGHT IS A THREE STORY OR FOUR STORY.
IT IS TRUE THAT, UM, FOR MOST ELEVATORS, ESPECIALLY THE ONES THAT IN EVEN AT THREE STORIES, UM, NO LONGER REQUIRE THAT HOUSING AT THE TOP.
UM, AND IN FACT, UH, THEY'RE EVEN GETTING AWAY FROM THE BIG MECHANICAL ROOMS, THE MACHINE ROOMS. UM, SO WE ARE SEEING LESS, IN FACT, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I SAW A SIMILAR TYPE HOUSING FROM WHAT WE'RE ALL USED TO SEEING BACK IN THE PAST.
SO IT GIVES ME SOME LEVEL OF COMFORT, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S AN ABSOLUTE AND THAT THAT CAN'T HAPPEN.
AND OTHER MECHANICAL WHAT ABOUT, WHAT ABOUT FIRE SUPPRESSION EQUIPMENT? THAT MIGHT HAVE TO BE UP THERE, SPRINKLERS OR SOMETHING, HOUSING FOR THAT.
I'M JUST, I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T CREATE SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA BE LARGER THAN A THREE STORY BUILDING FROM WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT.
IF YOU'RE WALKING IN THAT AREA.
AND IF YOU STILL WANNA HAVE A QUALITY OF LIFE IN THAT AREA THAT IS WITHIN THE THREE STORY STRUCTURE THAT WE'RE NOT GIVING EXCEPTIONS, THAT WILL CREATE SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE A FOUR STORY BUILDING BECAUSE THIS DOESN'T COUNT AND THAT DOESN'T COUNT AND THIS DOESN'T COUNT.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET TO.
SO THIS WOULD, THIS IS BASICALLY SAYING THINGS THAT, SO ELEVATORS ARE GIVEN A LITTLE EXTRA HEIGHT BECAUSE TRADITIONALLY THEY'VE HAD TO GO UP TALLER THAN THE BUILDING.
UM, THIS WOULD NOT BE GIVING THAT HEIGHT EXCEPTION TO EVERYTHING ELSE.
SO IT'S VERY, THE HEIGHT EXCEPTION, IT'S, UM, LIMITED TO A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE.
I THINK IT'S 5% OF THE BUILDING FOOTPRINT.
SO IT'S KEEPING IT SMALL AND THEY'RE BASICALLY WHAT THIS CODE SECTION IS SAYING, YOU NEED TO MEET THE DESIGN STANDARDS APART FROM THAT.
SO IT'S NOT ENCOURAGING TO MAKE IT LARGER.
UM, IT'S REALLY LIMITING THE SIZE OF IT AND, UM, IT WOULD JUST, IT WOULD NOT LOOK LIKE A SECOND STORY UNDER THIS.
I GUESS TO, TO CUT TO THE CHASE ON THIS ONE, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO SHARES MY CONCERN? I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHY THIS IS HERE.
SO MAYBE I OVERTHINK THINGS, BUT, UM, RIGHT NOW THE EXCEPTION IT, WHAT IT SAYS IS THAT THE STRUCTURE'S PERMITTED UNDER, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT EXCEPTION SHALL NOT BE CONSIDERED A SEPARATE MASS.
UM, BUT IT DOESN'T, NO, I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER MY REASONING FOR THIS
YEAH, AGAIN, WHAT, WHAT PROBLEM IS THIS CHANGE TRYING TO ADDRESS? BECAUSE IT, I THINK THE ORIGINAL CHANGE WAS THAT IT, UM, THE EXCEPTION WAS IN THE WRONG PLACE IN THE CODE WHERE IT WASN'T APPLYING TO EVERYTHING.
IT WAS THE WAY IT WAS, IT WAS KIND OF PLACED IN THE WRONG, SO I WAS TRYING TO MOVE IT TO THE RIGHT SPOT.
YOU MEAN THAT MULTI-FAMILY AND COMMERCIAL? YEAH.
AND THEN I WAS TRYING TO CLEAN UP SOME OF THE WORDING, BUT UM, IT'S, IT WASN'T ADDRESSING A ISSUE THAT CAME UP DURING A DEVELOPMENT REVIEW OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
AND IT'S, REMOVE AGAIN, THE, THE LANGUAGE IS, IT'S REMOVING THE MASSING REQUIREMENTS FOR THE MULTI-FAMILY AND COMMERCIAL.
SO IT'S REMOVING THE REQUIREMENT FROM JUST UNDER THE MULTI-FAMILY AND COMMERCIAL AND THEN REMOVING IT.
SO THAT APPLIES TO EVERYTHING, THAT IT'S NOT JUST LIMITED IN APPLICATION.
BUT AGAIN, MY CONCERN IS THAT WE'RE CREATING, BY REMOVING IT FROM MASSING, THAT WE'RE CREATING SOMETHING LARGER THAN WAS INTENDED.
AND AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S, IF ANYBODY ELSE SHARES THE CONCERN OR NOT, BECAUSE IF NOBODY DOES, THEN WE CAN JUST MOVE ON FROM THIS.
OKAY, SO BRIAN, DO YOU HAVE A,
[03:35:02]
SO ISN'T IT JUST A CHANGE OF WHAT SECTION IT'S IN? IT'S NOT REALLY REMOVING IT PER SE.YEAH, SO MAYBE REMOVE IN THE THIRD COLUMN, IT'S MORE MOVING TO A DIFFERENT SECTION.
BASED ON THE FORM SHALL NOT BE CONSIDERED, I DON'T, IT DOESN'T SAY THIS IS JUST MOVING IT IN OTHER PLACES.
IT MOVES IT FROM ONE SECTION ANOTHER.
THIS IS A CHANGE OF LANGUAGE THAT ADDS EXCEPTIONS.
IT'S NEW LANGUAGE EXCEPTIONS TO HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS.
IT'S, IT'S NOT JUST MOVING IT, SO IT'S, WELL, SO IT'S BOTH.
SO IT'S MOVING IT SO IT APPLIES.
SO IT'S NOT JUST UNDER A CERTAIN CATEGORY.
BUT THEN ALSO ADDING IN THAT THE THINGS THAT ARE GRANTED, YOU KNOW, THAT CHIMNEYS AND THINGS THAT ARE ALLOWED TO GO A LITTLE BIT HIGHER THAN THE HEIGHT EXCEPTIONS AREN'T COUNTED TOWARDS THE OVERALL DESIGN REQUIREMENTS FOR THE BUILDING.
THAT THEY ARE GRANTED THESE EXTRA HEIGHT EXCEPTIONS BECAUSE OF A CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCE, BUT THEY SHOULDN'T THEY, BUT THAT THE BUILDING SHOULD BE MEETING THE DESIGN REQUIREMENTS APART FROM THESE LITTLE PROJECTIONS THREE.
SO THE QUESTION ON THE TABLE HERE IS, DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE A CONCERN WITH IT? JUST NO.
I MIGHT SUGGEST THAT SINCE THIS DOES AFFECT MULTI-FAMILY HOUSING, THAT I DON'T THINK OUR HAIR IS ON FIRE ON THIS.
THIS MIGHT BE ANOTHER ONE THAT WE PUSH TO THE AFFORDABLE.
I, I DON'T WANT TO, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT DRIVING UP THE COST FOR MULTI-FAMILY HOUSING THAT'S
I THINK YOU'RE ONTO SOMETHING.
I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW IT PLAYS OUT AND I'M WILLING TO GIVE IT SOME MORE TIME.
KAREN, THIS, THIS IS ONE THAT I, I FEEL LIKE IS PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.
IT'S MORE OR LESS CLEANUP LANGUAGE, RIGHT? WE DO HAVE TO MAKE SOME ACKNOWLEDGEMENT FOR CERTAIN MECHANICAL FEATURES ON BUILDINGS, WHETHER THAT'S MULTI-FAMILY OR WHETHER IT'S ANY OTHER TYPE OF, OF BUILDING.
SO I'M, I'M VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THIS PARTICULAR ONE.
I DON'T THINK IT ADDS ANY UNNECESSARY COST TO MULTI-FAMILY.
AND I THINK THE REALLY NICE THING WE HAVE IS THE DIGA, IN WHICH CASE, IF SOMEONE IS WILLING TO, YOU KNOW, BUILDING MULTI-FAMILY IS ONE THING, AND I THINK WE DO WANT THAT, EVEN IF IT'S MARKET RATE, BUT WE ALSO WANT SOME ABILITY TO INCENTIVIZE AT LEAST SOME OF THOSE UNITS, IF NOT MORE OF THOSE UNITS, TO HAVE SOME KIND OF, UM, DEED RESTRICTION ON THEM FOR RENT CONTROL AND THAT KIND OF THING.
SO THESE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS WHERE WE CAN ALWAYS DEVIATE FROM THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REQUIREMENTS FOR UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES FOR AFFORDABLE OR WORKFORCE UNITS.
AND I'D RATHER USE THAT, UM, TO, TO TRY TO FURTHER INCENTIVIZE.
BUT I, I DON'T THINK THIS IS REALLY A, A COST, UM, ADDITION.
JESSICA, YOU GOT A QUESTION? I, I WANT TO TAKE THIS.
NO, I, SHE ANSWERED MY QUESTION.
SO UNLESS SOMETHING HAS CHANGED, WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON BECAUSE EVERYBODY IS SUPPORTING IT EXCEPT CATHOLIC KINSELLA.
AND MY OTHER QUESTIONS WERE WE ANSWERED, WE, WE, WE'VE ALREADY ADDRESSED THE LIGHTING AND WE'VE ADDRESSED, WE'VE ALREADY PREVIOUSLY ADDRESSED ALL MY REMAINING QUESTIONS, SO THANK YOU.
CARRIE, ARE YOU COMPLETED? OH, I, YEAH.
ALL OF MY THINGS ON MY LIST WERE ALL RIGHT.
BEFORE WE CLOSE THIS OUT, I WANNA OPEN THE PUBLIC, UH, UH, HEARING, UH, SEEING NOBODY THAT, DID YOU WANNA MAKE A CARD? I DON'T THINK YOU DID.
THEN WE'RE GONNA CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND MOVE ON TO ANOTHER ITEM, WHICH IS A RESOLUTION.
YEAH, WE GOT, OH, I GET THE MOTION.
SO JOANNE, YOU READY FOR ME? WAIT JUST A MINUTE.
CAN WE WAIT JUST ONE SECOND? MM-HMM.
ORIGINALLY IT WAS STRIKING JUST A COUPLE DEFINITIONS FROM IT.
AND THEN P Z HAD HAD ASKED TO STRIKE, UM, THE ART GALLERIES AND STUFF, BUT WE WANTED TO LEAVE IN THE OTHER, THE OTHER ONES.
AND CARRIE HAD SHOWED IT THE WHOLE STRIKE HERE.
[03:40:06]
OKAY, SO, OKAY.SO THIS WAS, WE HAD SEPARATED OUT ASSEMBLY HALLS, AUDITORIUMS AND CONFERENCE CENTERS FROM INDOOR RECREATION.
SO THAT WAS, AND THEN, AND CREATED A DIFFERENT DEFINITION FOR THAT.
AND THEN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION ALSO WANTED TO STRIKE THE ART GALLERY.
STUDIOS AND ART CENTERS WE'RE ADDING THAT BACK.
AND SO CITY, THIS PART WOULD BE ADDED BACK IN, BUT THEN THE ASSEMBLY CALLS AUDITORIUMS AND CONFERENCE CENTERS WOULD STILL END UP WITH A DIFFERENT DEFINITION.
THEY WOULD STILL WOULDN'T MAKE THAT LARGER.
I CAN SEE IT JUST FINE ON MY SCREEN.
SO ALSO SITTING MUCH CLOSER TO IT.
SO WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS YOU'RE GOING TO LEAVE AUDITORIUMS, CONFERENCE SETTERS AND ASSEMBLY HALLS BLOCKED OFF OR CROSSED OUT.
AND REINSTATE ART GALLERIES AND STUDIOS.
DID I NEED TO GO OVER AND SUMMARIZE THE OTHER, THE, ALL THE CHANGES AGAIN, OR NO? THEY, THEY'RE SUMMARIZING.
THEY'VE BEEN SHOWN TO COUNSEL, AND COUNSEL HAS IT IN FRONT OF THEM TO ADOPT AS AMENDED TONIGHT.
VICE MAYOR, FOR THE MOTION, I MOVE TO APPROVE RESOLUTION 2023.
ESTABLISHING AS A PUBLIC RECORD EXHIBIT A APRIL 25TH, 2023.
PROPOSED LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REVISIONS.
ALL, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
FIRST READING ORDINANCE NUMBER 2023 DASH THREE THREE.
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF SEDONA, ARIZONA AMENDING THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE L D C ADOPTING BY REFERENCE THAT DOCUMENT KNOWN AS EXHIBIT A.
APRIL 25TH, 2023, PROPOSED LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REVISIONS, PROVIDING FIRST SAVINGS CLAUSE AND REPEALING ALL ORDINANCES IN CONFLICT HEREWITH.
I THOUGHT THREE WE DID LAST TIME SHORTS.
NO, WE HAVE, OH, HOW IS THE READING? WE NEED A MOTION NOW.
I MOVE TO APPROVE ORDINANCE 2023.
THREE AS AMENDED CONSISTENT WITH THE APPROVAL CRITERIA IN SECTION 8.6 C FOUR OF THE LDC AMENDING THE LDC ADOPTING BY REFERENCE THAT DOCUMENT KNOWN AS EXHIBIT A, APRIL 25TH, 2023, PROPOSED LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REVISIONS, PROVIDING FOR A SAVINGS CLAUSE AND REPEALING ALL ORDINANCES OR PARTS OF ORDINANCES OR CODE PROVISIONS IN CONFLICT HERE WITH SECOND.
[8.d. AB 2861 Discussion/possible direction/action regarding proposed State legislation, short-term rental legislation and State budget and their potential impact on the City of Sedona.]
ITEM EIGHT D AB 28 61.DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE DIRECTION.
REGARDING PROPOSED STATE LEGISLATION, SHORT TERM RENTAL LEGISLATION AND STATE BUDGET AND THEIR POTENTIAL IMPACT ON THE CITY OF SEDONA.
UM, MARION COUNSEL, I DO NOT HAVE AN UPDATE.
UM, THE LEGISLATURE'S BEEN ON BREAK FOR TWO WEEKS PENDING, UM, TWO NEW LEGISLATORS THAT WILL BE APPOINTED BY THE MARICOPA COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, WHICH COULD HAPPEN POTENTIALLY TOMORROW.
UM, SO WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING THAT'S OCCURRED SINCE OUR LAST, UM, COUNCIL UPDATE.
[8.e. Reports/discussion regarding Council assignments]
REPORTS DISCUSSION REGARDING COUNSEL ASSIGNMENTS.ANYBODY HAVE ANY UPDATES? I I JUST WANNA MENTION THAT, UH, THE MAYOR OF CANMORE WILL BE HERE ON SATURDAY AND THE ONLY, UH, COUNSELORS WHO HAVE RSVP'D IN THE POSITIVE ARE CATHERINE, COUNSELOR, KINSELLA, MAYOR JLO, AND MYSELF.
IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE WHO PLANS TO ATTEND? YOU DO.
I JUST HAVE TO, I JUST HAVE TO RSVP.
AND PETE? OH, AND PETE, PLEASE.
I DIDN'T KNOW THERE'S A REQUIREMENT TO RSVP.
AND IT HAS BEEN PUBLIC NOTICED.
[03:45:01]
THE PUBLIC, IF ANYBODY IS STILL LISTENING, RIGHT.THAT'S, IS INVITED TO ATTEND AT 9:00 AM HERE IN COUNCIL CHAMBERS.
THIS IS A, UH, CAM IS A POTENTIAL SISTER CITY FOR SEDONA.
[8.f. Discussion/possible action regarding future meeting/agenda items.]
DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION FOR A FUTURE, UH, MEETING AND AGENDA ITEMS. I UNDERSTAND WE HAVE A PROPOSAL.UH, UH, COUNCILOR KINSELLA AND I HAD A BRIEF CONVERSATION RECENTLY, UM, AND WE'D LIKE TO SEE IF THERE'S SUPPORT TO LOOK AT HOW WE PASS NEW ORDINANCES.
2 25 40 REQUIRES AT LEAST ONE READING, BUT IT DOES ALLOW FOR US TO ADOPT NEW ORDINANCES IN A SINGLE MEETING BY GOING THROUGH A, A PROCESS.
I, I DON'T THINK THAT REALLY MEETS THE LEVEL AND STYLE OF OUR INTENDED PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT FOR A NEW ORDINANCE.
THIS WOULDN'T APPLY TO AN EXISTING ORDINANCE THAT WE'RE TRYING TO AMEND, BUT SOMETHING THAT COMES OUT OF THE BLUE, PERHAPS IT SHOULD COME BEFORE THIS COUNCIL TWO TIMES TO GIVE THE PUBLIC ENOUGH TIME TO ENGAGE WITH US.
AND WE DON'T JUST TAKE ACTION IN ONE MEETING UNLESS OF COURSE THERE'S AN URGENT MATTER.
AND, AND I THINK WE WOULD HAVE AN URGENCY, UH, OVERRIDE FOR THAT.
SO I'D LIKE TO SEE IF THERE'S SUPPORT FOR US CONSIDERING THAT AT A FUTURE MEETING.
SO THAT'S A, A FOR FUTURE 20 MINUTE, UH, AGENDA ITEM.
IF THERE'S NOT, IF THERE'S ONLY TWO, IF THERE'S FOUR SUPPORT THEN, RIGHT? YEAH.
IS IS THERE SUPPORT FOR THAT? SO IF I COULD WELL, YOU HAVE THE TWO.
YES, BUT I'D LIKE TO SPEAK TO THAT.
I MEAN, I JUST THINK THAT THERE'S A, THERE'S A ISSUE OF TRANSPARENCY HERE AS WELL AS WELL THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S DISCUSSING THE ITEM ITSELF.
NO, I'M NOT, I'M TRYING TO GIVE MY SUPPORT OF WHY I THINK I'M TRYING TO TELL THE OTHERS WHY WE WOULD VOTE.
SO I THINK THAT DOES DELVE INTO DISCUSSION NOW.
IT WAS PROPOSED AND WE CAN GET A SECOND AND, AND A THIRD AND A FOURTH.
AND IF THERE'S A FOURTH, IT'LL BE A IZED FOR A FULL MEETING.
UM, IF THERE'S JUST TWO, THEN IT'LL BE UP TO, UM, KAREN, WHETHER SHE THINKS IT'LL TAKE SUBSTANTIAL STAFF TIME OR NOT.
DOESN'T GET TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT WHY THEY'RE SECONDING IT
CUZ THAT DELVES INTO DISCUSSION NOW AMONG COUNSEL INSTEAD OF A, UH, IT'S NOT ON THE AGENDA.
SO THIS GETS IT ON THE AGENDA.
WE, WE ARE JUMPING AHEAD BY TRYING TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW.
IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE WHO IS IN SUPPORT OF THIS? SO CAN I SAY SOMETHING? WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT WE'LL HAVE 20 MINUTES TO ACTUALLY DISCUSS IT.
SO ARE YOU IN SUPPORT OF THAT? I'M IN SUPPORT OF HAVING THE 20 MINUTE CONVERSATION, YES.
I'M, I WOULD BE IN SUPPORT OF HAVING A 20 MINUTE CONVERSATION, YES.
SO WE HAVE THE NUMBERS FOR A 20 MINUTE, UH, NOW WE, WHEN WOULD IT BE THE NEXT AVAILABLE DATE? WE WILL, THAT'LL BE AN, THE AGENDA TEAM SETTING AND THAT'LL FIGURE, THAT'LL BE THE NEXT AVAILABLE COUNCIL MEETING.
CAN YOU TAKE, OH, SORRY, I NEED CLARIFICATION HERE.
AGAIN, KAREN'S AWARE OF THIS THAT I HAVE QUESTIONS AROUND THIS PROCESS BECAUSE MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT IF, IF THERE ARE TWO COUNSELORS THAT SUPPORT IT AND NOT THE REST, THAT THEN IT CAN MOVE FORWARD FOR 20 MINUTES.
BUT IF THERE ARE FOUR COUNSELORS OF SUPPORT THAT THIS SHOULD BE AUTOMATICALLY AED.
SO COUNSELOR WILLIAMSON IS NOT LIMITED TO 20 MINUTES.
COUNSELOR WILLIAMSON AND, AND THE MAYOR WERE NOT SUPPORTING IT, UH, DIRECTLY.
SO THEY, THEY DIDN'T NEED TO WEIGH IN.
WE HAD A FIRST AND A SECOND, AND THAT'S WHERE IT STANDS.
WELL, YOU, YOU'RE NO FURTHER ALONG THAN YOU AND YOU WOULD BE IF YOU, I UNDERSTAND JUST YOU, BUT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT WAS CLEAR BECAUSE IT WAS SOUNDING LIKE THERE WAS SUPPORT FOR SOMETHING THAT NO WOULD'VE MOVED IT TO.
I WAS LAUGHING AS IT HAPPENED.
SO, UH, THE AGENDA TEAM WILL SET THAT UP FOR THE NEXT, UH, AVAILABLE SLOT.
WE HAVE A VERY IMPORTANT MEETING TOMORROW FOR, UH, THE JUDGE.
THE MEETING, UH, WILL CONVENE HERE AT TWO O'CLOCK.
AND, UM, IS THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? HEARING
[10. ADJOURNMENT]
NONE.