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UH, WE'RE GONNA CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER.[PSPRS Board Meeting on May 4, 2023.]
AND DEPUTY CLERK, WOULD YOU LIKE TO CALL THE ROLL CALL, PLEASE?I'M HERE AND, UH, PSB BOARD CHAIRMAN, PETE FURMAN, PRESENT.
SO WE'RE GOING TO BE DOING AN INTERVIEW TODAY, UH, WITH YOU FOR THE PS P R S.
ITEM FOUR, AT UPON, UH, PUBLIC MAJORITY VOTE OF THE MEMBERS CONSTITUTING A QUORUM.
UH, THE TWO OF US IS THE ONLY QUORUM WE'RE GONNA HAVE.
THE SELECTION COMMITTEE MAY HOLD AN EXECUTIVE SESSION, WHICH IS NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.
UH, DISCUSSION, CONSIDERATION OF EMPLOYMENT.
I DON'T NEED TO GO THROUGH, DO YOU WANT ME TO READ THIS? SHE'S VERY NEW.
AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'M DOING THIS, UH, FOR THIS PARTICULAR BOARD, UH, DISCUSSION OR CONSIDERATION FOR OF EMPLOYMENT, ASSIGNMENT, ASSIGNMENT, APPOINTMENT PROMOTION, DEMOTION, DISMISSAL, SALARIES.
NONE OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH ANY OF THIS STUFF.
UH, SPECIFICALLY APPOINTMENT OF MEMBERS TO THE PUBLIC SAFETY PERSONNEL RETIREMENT SYSTEM LOCAL BOARD.
SO I THINK I GOT IT AHEAD OF MYSELF, BUT THAT'S OKAY.
SO LET'S ASK YOU THE HARD QUESTIONS,
THEY COULD BE,
IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE YOURSELF AVAILABLE FOR? YES, I CAN.
THURSDAY MORNINGS ARE EXCELLENT.
DO YOU HAVE ANY PRIOR EXPERIENCE SERVING ON A PENSION BOARD OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF MUNICIPAL BOARD? IF YES, PLEASE DESCRIBE.
SO I WAS, UH, I WAS, UH, CO-CHAIR FOR THE SEDONA FIRE DISTRICT, AND AS A RESULT, I ALSO WAS APPOINTED TO BE, UM, THE CHAIR OF THE PS P R S BOARD FOR, FOR THE FIREFIGHTERS.
ADMIN WAS IN A, UH, WAS IN THE, UH, STATE SYSTEM.
SO I HAD A NUMBER OF YEARS, PROBABLY SIX YEARS IN THAT, UH, POSITION.
AND THAT'S BEEN MY EXPERIENCE.
THAT WAS A GOOD EXPERIENCE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S A, A LARGER, UH, PERSONNEL GROUP OF, UH, APPROXIMATELY 102.
AND SO WE MET MORE THAN TWICE A YEAR
SO I ALSO ATTENDED THOSE KIND OF MEETINGS AS WELL.
CAN WE DRILL DOWN INTO SOME OF THESE BASED ON THE QUESTION, OR DO WE NEED TO STICK TO THE QUESTIONS? UM, YES, BUT WE HAVE TO ASK THE SAME QUESTION OF BOTH.
SO, I MEAN, IF IT COMES UP, APPLY, IF MAY, IF IT APPLIES.
I MEAN, I ASKED JOANNE THIS ALSO, BUT IT MAY NOT ALWAYS APPLY.
I'M JUST CURIOUS, WHEN DID YOUR SERVICE ON PS P RS END? IT ENDED IN, UH, LET'S SEE.
UH, I WOULD SAY IT ENDED IN 16.
AND THERE'S BEEN, UH, SOME SIGNIFICANT STATE LAW CHANGES OH, OKAY.
TO PS P R S RECENTLY HERE WITHIN THE LAST YEAR.
THOSE I WOULDN'T BE FAMILIAR WITH.
AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION I WANTED TO ASK IS GENERALLY HOW, UH, UM, FOR, UH, DISABILITY RETIREMENTS YES.
WAS THAT HA DID YOU ABSOLUTELY.
INVOLVED IN THOSE? ABSOLUTELY.
GENERALLY, HOW DID THOSE TURN OUT? THAT THEY ALWAYS, UM, DID YOU EVER, ONE, ONE FIREFIGHTER, UH, WAS, UH, FOUND TO DEFINITELY DESERVE RETIREMENT DUE TO THE CANCER, ACTUALLY PRETTY PROGRESSED CANCER THAT HE ACQUIRED AS A FIREFIGHTER.
AND THAT WAS, UH, APPROVED AFTER GOING THROUGH MEDICAL REVIEWS, EXTENSIVE MEDICAL REVIEWS.
AND THEN THERE WERE TWO THAT I REMEMBER THAT WERE TURNED DOWN INTERESTING.
UH, BECAUSE, UH, THEY SAID THEY ACQUIRED THEIR MEDICAL, UH, LIMITATION DUE TO BEING A FIREFIGHTER.
BUT IN INVESTIGATION, DURING THE TIME OF THEIR EMPLOYMENT, THE THINGS THEY SAID HAPPENED, DID HAPPEN.
AND THEY ALSO WERE ASKED TO LEAVE, UH, BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T PERFORMING WELL MM-HMM.
DID YOU LEAVE IT WHEN YOU LEFT THE BOARD? UM,
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I LEFT THE BOARD IN 20.BUT, UH, I DID NOT GO BACK ON PR PRS DURING MY LAST TWO YEARS.
WHAT, IF ANY EXPERIENCE DO YOU HAVE WITH USING OR REVIEWING ACTU ACTUARIAL REPORTS? ACTUARIAL REPORTS, AND, UM, WOULD THAT BE THE DESCRIPTION? WHAT IS, IN THIS CASE, WHAT WOULD THE ACTUA REPORT BE? ESSENTIALLY IT'S, YOU KNOW, THE STATUS FINANCIALLY OF THE SYSTEM, TALKS ABOUT THE UNFUNDED LIABILITY AND ALL OF THAT.
I'VE RE I'VE RE THAT WAS PART OF MY JOB, UH, AS, UH, BEING ON THE PSP REPORT, AND I DEFINITELY REVIEWED THOSE KIND OF REPORTS.
WHAT'S YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT THE UNFUNDED LIABILITY WAS OF THE SYSTEM? IT WAS BAD
AND, UH, THERE WERE GOOD EFFORTS, THOUGH.
I'M PROUD TO, YOU KNOW, HAVE BEEN A PART OF THAT TO, TO ALLOCATE, UH, MORE OF THE FUNDING, MORE OF THE BUDGET TO REDUCING THOSE.
ARE YOU, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE ARIZONA OPEN MEETING LAWS OR THE RULES AND USE OF EXECUTIVE SESSION? IF YES, PLEASE BRIEFLY DESCRIBE YOUR UNDERSTANDING.
UM, I HAVE BEEN EDUCATED ON THE OPEN MEETING LAW MANY TIMES.
SO, SO IT'S AN INTERESTING LAW
UM, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT IT,
UH, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, IT KEEPS, UH, THE PUBLIC KNOWING THAT THERE'S NO BACKROOM DEALS, AND THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF IT, ESPECIALLY FROM THE FIRE DISTRICT.
WHEN WAS YOUR LAST TRAINING, ROUGHLY? OH, OKAY.
UM, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN, UH, 2000.
WE HAD, YOU KNOW, COVID STOPPED THEM, SO I'M TRYING 2019.
HAS A BOARD MEMBER, YOU'LL BE MAKING DECISIONS REGARDING SWORN STAFF ON ISSUES SUCH AS MEMBERSHIP DATES IN THE RETIREMENT SYSTEM, APPROVING RETIREMENT SERVICE PURCHASE REQUESTS, AND ON A RARE OCCASION, APPROVING DENYING DISABILITY BENEFITS.
IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD BE VERY COMFORTABLE WITH? IS THIS SOMETHING YOU WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH? WHY OR WHY NOT? WELL, YOU KNOW, COMFORTABLE, UM, ISN'T AN EASY WORD BECAUSE WHEN PEOPLE ARE ASKING TO GO INTO THE SYSTEM, UH, BECAUSE OF A MEDICAL DISABILITY THEY'VE ACQUIRED ON THE JOB, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A VERY SERIOUS MATTER.
AND, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF I'D USE THE WORD COMFORTABLE, BUT I THINK I'M CAPABLE.
I'M CAPABLE OF, UH, LISTENING AND READING AND, UH, ASKING QUESTIONS AND MAYBE MAKING REFERRALS SO THAT ENOUGH INFORMATION IS GATHERED TO MAKE A GOOD DECISION.
BUT IT'S A SERIOUS DECISION THAT AFFECTS A PERSON'S LIFE EXTENSIVELY.
WANNA ASK ANYTHING FURTHER? YEAH, I THINK I, COREY, I'D LIKE TO ASK, WHY DID YOU APPLY FOR OH, SURE.
WELL, I SAW IT CAME IN AS A, UH, I GUESS AN EMAIL FROM THE CITY THAT THERE WAS AN OPENING.
AND, UM, I REALLY ENJOYED, UH, BEING PART OF THE, BEING, MAKING A CONTRIBUTION, BUT ALSO BEING PART OF THE COMMUNITY THAT, UH, THE FIRE DISTRICT HAS.
AND, UH, YET, UH, DOING SOMETHING AS BIG AS BEING ON THAT BOARD RIGHT NOW IN MY LIFE IS, THERE'S NOT QUITE TIME OUT, UH, AVAILABLE FOR IT.
BUT, UH, SO I SAW THIS, I THOUGHT, WOW, THIS IS A WAY THAT I COULD BE ENGAGED, UH, OFFER WHAT I DO KNOW, GIVEN THAT I'VE HAD PAST EXPERIENCE AND, UH, AND BE ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE A BIT.
MAYOR, DO YOU? NO, I HAVE NO OTHER QUESTIONS.
I THINK ANYTHING YOU HAVE, ANY QUESTIONS FOR US? ANYTHING YOU WANT TO, UM, ABOVE AND BEYOND THE TWO TIMES A YEAR THAT ARE REQUIRED? YOU KNOW, HOW OFTEN DOES IT COME UP THAT, THAT THERE'S A NEED FOR A MEETING? IT'S INTERESTING.
WE ARE GONNA, WE'VE, UH, AGENDAS THIS CONVERSATION FOR OUR NEXT MEETING.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE ON THE, UH, UH, OUR RULES SAY ONCE A MONTH, WE PROBABLY MIGHT SHIFT TO EVERY OTHER MONTH.
ONCE A MONTH IS DEFINITELY, WE DON'T MEET ONCE A MONTH.
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EVERY, YOU KNOW, WE PROBABLY MEET FOUR TIMES A YEAR OR FIVE TIMES A YEAR, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.YEAH, THAT'S VERY, BUT SCHEDULING HAS BEEN BEEN AN ISSUE WHERE, CUZ IT ISN'T, THAT'S WHAT I'M GONNA ADDRESS.
IT'S NOT A STANDING THING IN EACH OF OUR CALENDARS.
SO THEN WHEN WE FIND ONE COMING OUT NOW WE SCRAMBLE.
SO, I, I THINK I WANT TO GO BACK TO MORE OF A, A STANDING MEETING PERHAPS EVERY OTHER MONTH.
ON THURSDAY MORNINGS AND, AND THURSDAY MORNINGS WE JUST SET.
YEAH, I REMEMBER THAT BEING DIFFICULT.
UH, ARE YOU, ARE YOU ALSO YEAH, THAT SOUNDS RIGHT.
IS KATHY STILL ON THE BOARD OR NO, KATHY? NO.
SO YOU'RE THE, THE CITY COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVE? I'M THE, YEAH, THE CHAIR.
AND THEN THERE ARE SOME REPRESENTATIVES FROM YEP, WE'VE GOT TWO SYSTEM, TWO CURRENT OR RETIREE POSITIONS.
UHHUH, THEY'RE BOTH CURRENT, UH, AND HELD BY CURRENT EMPLOYEES, AND THEN TWO PUBLIC MEMBERS.
AND SO THIS IS A PUBLIC MEMBER SPOT.
DOES THAT, LET ME, I WILL GO AHEAD.
JUST CUZ IT'S CONNECTED TO THAT.
IN YOUR MIND, IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A SYSTEM MEMBER OF THE BOARD AND THE PUBLIC MEMBER OF THE BOARD? IS THERE ANY, HOW WOULD YOU THINK ABOUT BEING WITH THE PUBLIC MEMBER? RIGHT.
WELL, I WOULD BE REPRESENTING THE CITIZENS MORE, UH, THAN IN MY ROLE WHEN I WAS, UH, ON, ON THE FIRE DISTRICT PS P R S BOARD, I WAS REPRESENTING TRULY THE, THE FIRE DISTRICT.
UH, IT'S LEGAL OBLIGATIONS, IT'S FINANCIAL OBLIGATIONS.
SO IT'S VERY DIFFERENT TO COME IN AS A CITIZEN, UH, HAVING A MUCH BROADER, UM, BROADER AWARENESS.
BRINGING IN A BROADER AWARENESS.
OH, WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, COREY.
PLEASURE TO FINALLY GET A LITTLE CHANCE TO SIT ACROSS THE TABLE AND TALK.
YOU GUYS HAD A LONG DAY SO FAR.
I'VE BEEN HERE SINCE I EIGHT O'CLOCK, SO I'VE BEEN GOING MEETINGS, MEETINGS, MEETINGS.
LET'S HOPE WE CAN MAKE THIS QUICK FOR YOU,
NO, ACTUALLY I'M GOOD TILL FOUR, SO, ALL RIGHT.
I'D RATHER GET TO KNOW YOU AND, OKAY.
ANYWAY, WE HAVE THE QUESTIONS.
AND YOU'RE ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE FROM SEDONA FIRE.
I DON'T KNOW,
I JUST HUNG IN THE BACKGROUND A LOT.
UM, WE HAVE FIVE QUESTIONS FOR YOU.
WE MAY END UP ADDING TO THAT SEVEN NOW, MAYOR HAVE QUESTIONS.
NOT TOO DIFFICULT, UH, I'M SURE.
UH, MEETINGS ARE TYPICALLY HELD IN THE MORNING FOR THE FIRST THURSDAY OF, OF THE MONTH.
UH, AND THE BOARD IS REQUIRED BY STATUTE TO MEET AT LEAST TWICE YEARLY.
I DO WORK, YOU KNOW, I DO WORK WELL, I KNOW THAT'S RIGHT DOWN THE STREET,
SO, I MEAN, UH, THE GOOD PART IS, IS, UM, CURRENTLY IN THE POSITION I HAVE, I AM AT STATION ONE.
SO I AM ABLE TO JUST JUMP OVER HERE REAL QUICK IF, UH, IF NEED BE.
I'M ALSO ON THE, UH, PROMOTION LIST FOR BATTALION CHIEF AND HAS THAT TRANSITION CHANGES PROBABLY WITHIN THE NEXT FOUR TO SIX MONTHS.
UM, WE ARE BUILDING ENOUGH, UM, SUPPORT IN THE GROUP WHERE SOMEONE CAN COVER ME FOR, FOR AN HOUR OR TWO IF NEEDED TO.
HOW ABOUT MEETINGS? PETE, PETE, THE, UH, CHAIR OKAY.
AND SO USUALLY WHEN I, LIKE, I WATCH OURS, THEY'RE PRETTY SHORT, DEPENDING ON HOW MANY THINGS.
NORMALLY THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE PRETTY SHORT.
UNLESS WE'RE DOING A, YOU KNOW, A DISABILITY RETIREMENT REALLY IS THE ONLY IN LOOKING AT THE PAPERWORK.
DO YOU HAVE ANY PRIOR EXPERIENCE SERVING ON A PENSION BOARD OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF MUNICIPAL BOARD? IF YES, PLEASE DESCRIBE.
I ACTUALLY SAT ON A SCHOOL BOARD, CURRENTLY A SCHOOL BOARD.
SO I'M ON THE VALLEY ACADEMY FOR CAREER AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION, WHICH IS THAT, THAT IS THE V ACT IS THE TECHNICAL EDUCATION SCHOOL THAT SUPPORTS ALL THREE HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICTS.
UM, SO WE ARE KIND OF THE CLEARINGHOUSE FOR TECHNICAL EDUCATION FOR ALL THREE SCHOOLS.
UM, WE DO HAVE IN-HOUSE CLASSES, THE CULINARY, WE WORK DIRECTLY WITH YAVAPAI COLLEGE.
THE HIGH SCHOOL PORTION OF THAT IS OUR PROGRAM, UH, FIRE SCIENCE, UH, AND THAT
[00:15:01]
STUFF IS OUR PROGRAM NURSING.SO I HAVE BEEN ON THAT BOARD FOR ALMOST EIGHT YEARS, AND I SAT AS THE CHAIRMAN FOR THREE.
UM, SO RUNNING THE MEETINGS, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.
I GOT VERY USED TO OPEN MEETING LAW, HOW TO RUN A MEETING, WHICH I DEFINITELY DON'T ON THIS
THE ONLY COMMUNITY THAT'S NOT PART OF OUR BOARD THAT DOESN'T GET TAX DOLLARS OR WE DON'T GET TAX DOLLARS FROM IS RIMROCK.
SO WE HAVE MINGUS, CLARKDALE, UH, COTTONWOOD, OAK CREEK, SEDONA OAK CREEK, AND THEN INGUEZ.
AND EVERY YEAR WE ARE ALLOWED PER OUR BYLAWS TO ROTATE A, UH, A MEMBER IN IF THEY WANT IT.
AND SO I TOOK IT FOR A FEW YEARS.
AND JUST TO ANSWER A LITTLE BIT CLEARER, UM, NOT ON A PENSION BOARD.
AND I'M NOT, AND I'M NOT ON A CURRENT PENSION BOARD.
THAT'S WHY I JUST WANNA, BUT I AM CURRENTLY IN THE PS P R S PENSION.
I JUST WANTED, BECAUSE YOU TOUCH ON THE SCHOOL BOARD, BUT YOU DIDN'T TOUCH ON THAT PART.
SO YEAH, NO CURRENT PENSION BOARD.
WHAT, IF ANY, EXPERIENCE DO YOU HAVE USING OR REVIEWING ACTUARIAL REPORTS? UH, WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, WE LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, QUITE A FEW OF THEM.
UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT COSTS ARE COMING IN, YOU KNOW, PROJECTIONS, UH, WITH OUR OWN PENSION AND, AND MY OWN PENSION WITHIN THE PS P RS, I UNDERSTAND IT, BEEN IN IT FOR ALMOST 25 YEARS.
UM, KNOW HOW IT WORKS, BEING ABLE TO, TO SEE WHAT PS P R S GIVES TO THE CITY OR, OR ASK OF THE CITY OR THE FIRE DISTRICT FOR, UM, THE ACTUARIAL INCREASES EACH YEAR.
UM, SO WELL VERSED ON LOOKING AT THOSE, SEEING WHERE WE'RE AT, YOU KNOW, HAVING THAT OPEN COMMUNICATION FOR ME WITH OTHER FIRE DISTRICTS, OTHER FIRE DEPARTMENTS ON, YOU KNOW, COMPARISONS, WHAT WE SEE, HOW THEY'RE TACKLING ISSUES WHEN WE HAVE DOWNTURN ECONOMIES, THOSE HAD, HOW OTHER PLACES HAVE DONE IT IN THE PAST.
UM, SO THAT'S BEEN MY EXPERIENCE FOR THE MOST PART.
UM, SPECIFICALLY TO, TO THE PENSION STUFF, UM, YOU KNOW, AND THEN JUST BEING ACTUALLY PART OF THE FIRE DISTRICT AND OUR, OUR BUDGET, OUR, YOU KNOW, WORKING WITH YOU GUYS ON THE BOARD AND, AND THE CHIEFS, YOU KNOW, BEEN IMMERSED IN IT FOR THE PAST 25 YEARS.
WHAT'S YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE FIRE SYSTEM'S PENSION SYSTEM STATUS? FINANCIAL? HOW'S THE UNFUNDED LIABILITY? WHAT'S YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE CURRENT SYSTEM? SO, MY KNOWLEDGE OF OUR CURRENT SYSTEM, I KNOW THAT WE STILL HAVE SOME UNFUNDED LIABILITY THAT, THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT, UM, THAT OUR, UH, FINANCE GUY IS LOOKING AT HOW TO PAY THAT DOWN.
UM, I KNOW WHAT OUR COST IS, UH, BY THE EMPLOYEE TO, TO BREAK THAT DOWN.
AND, YOU KNOW, HOW LONG WE DECIDE TO ROLL THAT OUT.
I'VE SEEN THAT WHAT A LOT OF PLACES HAVE DONE IN THE LAST FEW YEARS IS THE, UM, THE LOAN AGAINST IT.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE THING NOW FOR THE UN UNFUNDED LIABILITY.
BUT THE CITY OF PRESCOTT, THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF, CITY OF PRESCOTT DID THE 1 CENT TEST.
CITY OF FLAGSTAFF DID THE, THE LOAN AGAINST THE, THE RIGHT, THE OUTDATED PENSION, UH, LIABILITY.
SO THE OPTIONS THAT ARE OUT THERE TOWARDS THOSE THINGS.
WHAT DID, DID SEDONA FIRE TAKE ACTION ON THAT? I DON'T THINK WE HAVE YET.
BUT I ALSO DON'T THINK WE HAVE A, I DON'T THINK OURS IS VERY LARGE, BUT I KNOW WE HAVE ONE.
THERE'S ANOTHER BIG SOFTBALL COMING FOR YOU.
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH ARIZONA OPEN MEETING LAWS OR THE RULES AND USE OF EXECUTIVE SESSION? ABSOLUTELY.
IF YES, PLEASE DES BRIEFLY DESCRIBE YOUR UNDERSTANDING.
UM, SO OPEN MEETING LAW, YOU KNOW, BEING THAT THIS IS PART OF THE CITY AND IT'S PART OF THE, YOU KNOW, AN UNDER SITE BOARD FOR THE CITY AND THE CITY COUNCIL, UM, IT ALL HAS TO BE OPEN MEETING LAW.
UH, BEING THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT MEDICAL ISSUES AND, UM, SOMETIMES, UM, MOSTLY MEDICAL ISSUES WHEN IT COMES TO RETIREMENT, BUT SOMETIMES PERSONNEL BEING REMOVED FROM, UM, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE PERSONNEL ISSUES TO GO WITH THAT.
THOSE ISSUES CAN BE DEALT AND SHOULD BE DEALT IN MOST CASES, UM, WITH WITHIN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
SO CONVENIENT IN AN EXECUTIVE SESSION, UM, KNOWING THAT THE EXECUTIVE SESSION IS, EXECUTIVE SESSION SHOULD NEVER BE GUIDED.
IT'S NOT A TIME FOR JUST A FREE FOR ALL CONVERSATION.
THAT'S ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS THAT I THINK IS, IS MISGUIDED OF PEOPLE'S KNOWLEDGE OF THE EXECUTIVE SESSION.
STILL HAS TO BE GUIDED, STILL HAS, IT ALLOWS FOR QUESTIONS TO BE ANSWERED.
UM, AND FOR MORE IN INFORMATION TO COME TO ME SO THAT WE CAN MAKE A FAIR DECISION FOR A MEDICAL RETIREMENT.
A, YOU KNOW, DISCIPLINARY RETIREMENT OR SOMEONE LEAVING THE SYSTEM AND, AND WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO DO WITH, WITH THE MONIES THAT, YOU KNOW, BASED ON WHAT'S GOING ON.
THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN VERY OFTEN.
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PEOPLE LEAVING JUST BASED ON TIME AND YEARS.UM, SWITCHING COMING IN FROM A DIFFERENT ORGANIZATION ARE, IF THEY'RE A BRAND NEW OFFICER OR THEY IN THE TIER, WHICH STATUS WOULD THEY BE IN IF THEY'RE A LATERAL COMING IN VERSUS A BRAND NEW ONE.
YOU KNOW, I'D HAVE TO SEE THE CITY POLICY BASED ON THAT.
BUT WE WELL VERSED CUZ IT'S GOTTA BE FAIRLY CLOSE TO OURS.
DO DO YOU DO CLOSED SESSIONS AS PART OF YOUR SCHOOL BOARD, MARK? UH, YES.
UM, LAST ONE WE DID WAS SUPERINTENDENT, UH, SUPERINTENDENT'S REVIEW AND HIS CONTRACT.
THANK YOU SUPERINTENDENT FOR THAT.
BOB WEIR, HE CAME FROM CAMP VERDE, WAS A CAMP VERDE, UH, PRINCIPAL AT ONE POINT IN TIME.
UM, AND HE'S BEEN WITH US ABOUT THE SAME TIME I'VE BEEN ON THE BOARD JUST OVER EIGHT YEARS, I BELIEVE.
AS A BOARD MEMBER, YOU'LL, YOU'LL BE MAKING DECISIONS REGARDING SWORN STAFF ON ISSUES SUCH AS MEMBERSHIP DATES AND THE, UH, RETIREMENT SYSTEM APPROVING RETIREMENT SERVICE PURCHASE REQUESTS, AND ON RARE OCCASION APPROVING DENYING DISABILITY BENEFITS.
IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH? WHY OR WHY NOT? OH, VERY COMFORTABLE WITH, UM, I WORK WITH OUR STAFF RIGHT NOW.
UM, WHEN IT COMES TO MEDICAL RETIREMENT, THOSE ARE PROBABLY THE STICKIEST PART OF THAT.
WHEN YOU'RE, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT JUST A NORMAL RETIREMENT, CONFIRMING YEARS IN THE SERVICE, SOMETIMES THERE CAN BE A LITTLE, YOU KNOW, QUESTION MARK AND WE HAVE TO GET TO THE BOTTOM IF THEY TRANSFERRED IT FROM ANOTHER ORGANIZATION AND PAPERWORK GOT MAYBE SCREWED UP IN THE MIX.
ONE OF MY GUYS HAD THAT HAPPEN WHERE PS P RS SHOWED THE WRONG TIME FOR HIM WHEN HE TRANSFERRED TO SEDONA.
BUT MOST OF THE TIME IT'S, IT'S THE MEDICAL RETIREMENT THAT WILL BE THE MOST TIME CONSUMING, UH, FOR US.
UM, LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, AND REALLY WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO THERE IS, I'M SURE YOUR PENSION BOARD WORKS LIKE OURS.
YOU KNOW, YOU GET THE FIRST DOCTOR'S STATEMENT, YOU GET AN IES, YOU KNOW, AND THEN IF, IF THEY'RE OPPOSING, YOU KNOW, IF, IF IT'S ANYTHING LIKE OUR POLICY, THEN A THIRD DOC IS CALLED INTO PLACE AT A SHARED COST, UM, TO GET US A BETTER VIEW OF, OF AGREEMENTS.
SO A LOT OF TIMES WE HAVE TO TAKE THE ADVICE OF, OF THE DOCS THAT ARE PROVIDING THAT, THAT WORK FOR US.
UM, AND, YOU KNOW, JUST AT FAIR VALUE AND, AND KNOWING HOPEFULLY GOOD DOCUMENTATION FROM THE OFFICERS OF WHAT HAPPENED.
WAS THIS ON THE JOB? WAS THIS OFF THE JOB? YOU KNOW, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.
AND THEN WORKING WITH PRS OF WHICH ACTUAL PENSION BENEFIT THEY FALL INTO AFTER THAT.
REALLY, NOT IN OUR PURVIEW, BUT AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW ABOUT IT, WE'RE SUPPORTING IT, YOU KNOW, THE OFFICER CAN WORK WITH PRS, PRS AT THAT TIME OF, OF THERE'S ISSUES.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THE DENIAL AND APPROVAL JUST COME DOWN TO THE BOARD.
JEFF, WHY DID YOU APPLY TO THIS BOARD AND, OKAY.
UH, ACTUALLY IT'S BEEN SOMETHING ON MY RADAR FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS.
I WORKED WITH YOUR OFFICERS, UH, OFTEN.
RIGHT? EVERY, YOU KNOW, LAST NIGHT WE, I WAS OUT WITH THEM.
UM, I'VE ALWAYS GIVEN BACK TO THE CITY.
I, I'VE SAT ON MULTIPLE BOARDS, DONE MULTIPLE THINGS.
I WAS THE LITTLE LEAGUE PRESIDENT WHEN WE STILL HAD LITTLE LEAGUE IN SEDONA.
UM, I'VE DONE COUNTLESS, YOU KNOW, A Y S O, YOU KNOW, STUFF.
I'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO GIVE BACK TO MY COMMUNITY, HAVE A COMMUNITY SERVICE.
UM, THAT'S WHY I SIT ON THE VX BOARD.
UM, WHEN, UM, TOM MOORE PASSED AWAY, UH, HIS WIFE KATHY ASKED IF I WOULD SIT ON, ON THAT BOARD, UM, BECAUSE TOM WAS STILL AN ACTIVE MEMBER ON IT MM-HMM.
I DIDN'T GET IT ON THE FIRST RUN, BUT IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS IMPORTANT TO ME IN HIGH SCHOOL.
AND SO I KEPT WITH IT AND ACTUALLY RAN UNOPPOSED IN, IN THE NEXT ELECTION AFTER THAT.
UM, BUT THAT'S THE BIGGEST REASON IS IT'S SOMETHING TO GET BACK TO MY COMMUNITY.
I'VE LIVED HERE MY WHOLE LIFE, SO FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS, UM, MY GRANDPARENTS MOVED HERE IN 1948.
SO I'VE GOT A LONG HISTORY WITH SEDONA.
IT'S ALWAYS BEEN SOMETHING IN MY FAMILY THAT WE GIVE BACK.
YOU, YOU SUPPORT THE COMMUNITY YOU GREW UP IN.
THIS COMMUNITY'S BEEN INCREDIBLE FOR ME AND IT'S JUST A PIECE THAT I CAN GIVE BACK TO ED.
DID YOU EVER APPLY FOR THE FIRE PS P R S BOARD? I DID.
UM, AND ACTUALLY THERE WERE THREE OF US THAT APPLIED AND I BACKED OUT JUST BECAUSE I WAS, THERE WAS A LOT GOING ON.
SO IT'S, IS IT, IS IT AN ELECTION FOR THE MEMBERS? IF, IF, IF OUR MEMBERS, SO WE, TWO FIREFIGHTERS WERE ON THE BOARD FOR US.
AND USUALLY THEY RUN UNOPPOSED LIKE THIS TIME AROUND.
WE JUST HAD AN ELECTION FOR A NEW PERSON AND THEY RAN UNOPPOSED.
UM, I WAS LIKE, NO, I WANT TO DO THE CITY OR AT LEAST THROW MY NAME IN THE HALF OF THE CITY.
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OF RELATED TO THAT, THAT THIS PARTICULAR SLOT IS THE PUBLIC MEMBER MM-HMM.HOW DO YOU VIEW THAT RESPONSIBILITY? WELL, THE GOOD PART IS, IS I AM A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC.
I, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE GREAT KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT YOUR OFFICERS DO, AND I CAN WORK SIDE BY SIDE WITH HIM IN A LOT OF CASES, UM, I'M RESPONSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC, RIGHT? I'M RESPONSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC AND THE CITY TO MAKE FAIR, CONSCIOUS, INFORMED DECISIONS ON WHAT'S IN FRONT OF US.
UM, WE DON'T WANT AN OFFICER, YOU KNOW, WE NEVER THINK THAT WE HAVE BAD, BAD PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR US IN BOTH CITY OF SEDONA, SEDONA FIRE DISTRICT.
BUT WE HAVE SITUATIONS THAT MAN MAYBE JUST AREN'T THE BEST, YOU KNOW, IN MAKING THAT DECISION TO SUPPORT OUR OFFICERS, BUT ALSO SUPPORT THE FINANCIAL OUTLAY.
IT'S A COST TO THE CITY OF SEDONA.
IF SOMEONE DIDN'T GET TO THE END OF THEIR CAREER, WEREN'T ABLE TO, THEY'RE COMING IN SHORT, THEY'RE NOT TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE SYSTEM.
AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS, IS THAT PERSON THAT MAY BE TRYING TO FIND AN EASY WAY OUT.
AND WE HAVE TO RELY ON THE INFORMATION THAT WE GET.
THAT'S WHY WE RELY ON THOSE IESS SO MUCH.
UM, WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO OFFICERS COMING OR LEAVING, UM, YOU KNOW, THE GOOD PART IS, IS WE'RE PRETTY BOUND BY ARIZONA RISE STATUTE OF HOW THAT WORKS.
UM, YOU KNOW, SO YEARS OF SERVICE, ALL THOSE THINGS, YOU KNOW, THERE SOMETIMES BE, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE AN OFFICER THAT UM, WAS EITHER, YOU KNOW, IN OR OUT OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY SAFETY SYSTEM A COUPLE TIMES MOVING JOBS BEFORE THEY FINALLY END UP HERE, IT CAN BE KIND OF CLOUDED.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THE SYSTEM'S, YOU KNOW, BUILT WELL ENOUGH THAT, YOU KNOW, TO BACKTRACK ON THAT, TO GET THAT INFORMATION, WE'VE NEVER HAD AN ISSUE WITH IT.
IT SEEMS PRETTY SEAMLESS, UH, THE TIMES THAT I'VE DONE IT.
SO, YOU KNOW, REALLY WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO, YOU KNOW, THE PENSION ITSELF AND DEALING WITH OUR OFFICERS, THAT ONE'S PRETTY EASY.
UM, CUZ IT JUST DOESN'T, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF LATITUDE AND A LOT OF, A LOT OF STUFF THAT WE GET.
SO IT'S REVIEW IT, MAKE INFORMED CONSENT DECISIONS, UM, FOR THAT, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, BEING, BEING MINDFUL THAT, YOU KNOW, CITY MONEY, TAX MONEY, ALL THOSE THINGS.
OTHER PART TO THAT IS, IS TAKING CARE OF OUR OFFICERS.
RIGHT? SO HAVE HAVING THAT BALANCE, YOU KNOW, HOW THEY GOT HURT, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THE CIRCUMSTANCES BEHIND THE INJURY, UM, WITH SOMEONE, YOU KNOW, EVEN IF IT'S, UH, I HAVE A VERY CLOSE PERSON TO ME THAT'S WORKING ON A MEDICAL RETIREMENT WITH A MENTAL HEALTH CONDITION, UH, AND WORKING THROUGH THAT SYSTEM.
SO I'M WATCHING THAT AND HELPING WITH THAT FIRST HAND.
UM, JUST BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING THAT, IT'S NOT A BROKEN ARM, BROKEN LEG, BLOWN OUT KNEE.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND.
SO TRUSTING IN THE PROFESSIONALS THAT DEAL WITH THAT, UM, AND, AND JUST LOOKING AT AND READING IT AND SUPPORTING IT AT FACE VALUE IS WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT.
I MEAN, MORE YEARS YOU GOT LEFT IN THE SYSTEM.
WELL, IF YOU ASK ME, I COULD RETIRE TOMORROW IF YOU ASK MY WIFE, I CAN'T RETIRE FOR A WHILE
UH, REALISTICALLY I'VE PROBABLY GOT, I'LL PROBABLY ENTER THE DROP WITHIN THE NEXT YEAR OR TWO.
YOU THINK I FINISHING MY 20, WELL, MY 24TH THERE IN A COUPLE WEEKS.
AND THEN I MIGHT DO ONE OR TWO MORE BEFORE I ACTUALLY DROP.
AND THEN, BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE.
YOU LIVE IN TOWN? I LIVE IN TOWN, YEP.
SO IS A BUZZER MEMBER OF THE DROP.
UH, BUT HE'S GOT QUITE A FEW YEARS LEFT.
AND SO DAVE ACTUALLY IS FINISHING HIS FIFTH YEAR, WHICH IS PROBABLY MY PROMOTION.
SO, AND HE'S GONNA GO, DAVE WILL GO OUT AND I WORK FOR DAVE RIGHT NOW.
SO DAVE WILL GO OUT AND I'LL JUST MOVE IN HIS SPOT.
SO HE DOESN'T REALLY HAVE MUCH UNLESS HE ASKS FOR THE NEW SEVEN YEAR PORTION OF, YOU KNOW, AND WE AGREE TO THAT.
I DON'T THINK DAVE IS, BUT UM, THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT.
SO PROBABLY COME JANUARY, HE'LL RIDE OFF IN THE SUNSET AND I'LL HAVE A WHOLE LOT MORE GRAY HAIR.
AS LONG AS YOU HAVE THE HAIR, WHO CARES WHAT COLOR IT'S
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR US? NO.
SO OTHER, WELL ACTUALLY I DO, I DO.
OTHER THAN THE OBLIGATORY TWO TIMES YOU'RE HERE, I KNOW THAT WE'VE HAD QUITE A, A FEW OFFICERS LATERALS COME IN AND OUT WITH THE CITY'S POLICY.
DO YOU LIKE FOR US, WE ACTUALLY DON'T NEED TO MEET WHEN A NEW, WHEN NEW PEOPLE ARE COMING IN, WE HAVE TO MEET.
BUT ACTUALLY WITH RETIREMENTS THAT ARE NORMAL YEARS BASED, WE ARE NOT MEETING ANY LONGER.
IS THAT THE POLICY AT THE CITY RIGHT NOW? OR ARE THEY MEETING FOR ALL
[00:30:01]
CASES? YEAH, WE'RE, I DON'T, SO I I'M THE CHAIR.I'M THE, I'M THE NEW CHAIR OF THE BOARD, BUT I'VE BEEN ON THE BOARD FOR SIX YEARS I THINK AS THE PUBLIC MEMBER.
NO, I'M THE CITY THE MAYOR DESIGNEE.
UM, AND WE ARE AGENDAS TO, TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION OH.
AND, UH, WE DON'T, I, WE HAVE FEWER MEMBERS THAN YOU GUYS DO.
WE CAN PROBABLY GET BY WITH IT EVERY OTHER MONTH MEETING, BUT I ACTUALLY WANT TO AGENDAS AND I'LL SCH US.
I'LL HAVE ALL OF US SCHEDULE IT IN OUR CALENDARS.
WE PROBABLY MEET FOUR TIMES A YEAR.
FIVE TIMES A YEAR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
AND THE NEW RULES ARE YEAH, THE NEW RULES KIND OF, IT'S REALLY ALL ABOUT RETIREMENTS NOW.
SO YEAH, I JUST KNEW WHAT WE ADOPTED.
I, I, YOU KNOW, MY ENGINEER SITS ON OUR PUBLIC SAFETY BOARD.
SO WE OF, YOU KNOW, JUST KNOWING WHAT HE IS GOING THROUGH AND THE TIMES THAT WE'RE MEETING CUZ OF OUR CURRENT RETIREMENT THAT WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, I ASKED HIM HOW MUCH TIME HE TRULY SPENDS, UM, JUST TO GET A BEARING FOR ME WHEN I APPLIED FOR THIS.
UM, SO THAT'S, NO, THAT'S VERY GOOD AND VERY DOABLE FOR ME.
SO, SO HOW WOULD IT WORK IF YOU WERE ON DUTY AND THEY HAVE A MEETING? YOU'RE GONNA TAKE TIME, YOU'RE GONNA TAKE PERSONAL TIME? I WOULD, YEAH.
I WOULD JUST, I WOULD TAKE, SO THE GOOD PART IS IT'S THE MORNINGS.
SO ON MORNINGS, YOU KNOW, I WOULD JUST WORK WITH, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW FOR, FOR MY CURRENT POSITION AS CAPTAIN, THE CAPTAIN THAT'S COMING OFF, THAT'S THAT I'M RELIEVING, HEY, JUST STAY.
CAN YOU STAY FOR AN EXTRA HOUR OR TWO, YOU KNOW, GOING TO MY SCHOOL BOARD MEETINGS.
AND WHEN I, THE TRANSITION TO BATTALION CHIEF WILL MAKE IT ACTUALLY EASIER CUZ WE'LL HAVE, UM, DOES IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE THAT YOUR ENGINEERS ON THE, SO HOW THE, WHAT DAYS DO YOU GUYS MEET? OH, JUST AT RANDOM.
SO I KNOW THAT WE HAVE TWO SCHEDULED TIMES A YEAR, BUT OH, WE, WE DON'T HAVE THAT SCHEDULED.
SO YOU GUYS SCRAMBLE EVERY MEETING, FINDING THE TIME.
SO LIKE RIGHT NOW WITH OUR, WITH OUR ONE NUMBER THAT'S DEALING WITH MENTAL HEALTH AND ANOTHER ONE THAT'S MEDICAL RETIRING, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TWO PROBABLY WITHIN THE NEXT, WELL, ONE'S VERY ACTIVE IN, IN THE IME PROCESS RIGHT NOW.
THE OTHER ONE IS, IS STARTING HIS PAPERWORK.
THEY'LL PROBABLY MEET THREE OR FOUR TIMES OVER THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS AS THEY GET THAT INFORMATION BACK.
UM, AND THEN THEY'LL HAVE A SIX MONTH LOW BEFORE THEY MEET AGAIN.
WHAT'S THE PERCENTAGE OF MEDICAL RETIREES? SYSTEM? SYSTEM? OH, I THINK WE'VE HAD, WELL WE'VE HAD A FEW, UM, WE'VE PROBABLY HAD IN MY 25 YEARS, SEVEN OR EIGHT.
SO, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WHEN I STARTED 25 YEARS AGO, WE ONLY HAD 20 EMPLOYEES ON THE FLOOR.
SO THAT'S, IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? NO, I THINK THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT.
THANK YOU FOR, I JUST DON'T WANT YOU TO FEEL RUSHED.
I'VE BEEN WORKING FOR THE LAST THREE DAYS.
THANKS SO MUCH FOR COMING IN TO MEET YOU.
APPRECIATE, NICE TO MEET YOU SIR.
UPON THE PUBLIC MAJORITY VOTE OF THE MEMBERS CONSTITUTING A QUORUM US SELECTION COMMITTEE MAY HOLD AN EXECUTIVE SESSION, WHICH IS NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC FOR THE FOLLOWING PURPOSES.
SO IS THERE ANYONE MISSING FROM OUR INTERVIEW PANEL? IT WAS ONLY EVER JUST THE TWO OF US.
THE FIRST TIME I'VE GOT JOANNE THAT CHECKED EVERYTHING, SO, OKAY.
I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHO ELSE I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER OF THE PREVIOUS INTERVIEWS I'VE DONE, HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE ON THE INTERVIEW PANEL? SO IT'S JUST THE TWO OF US.
SAYING ON HERE IT SAYS MAJORITY OF, OF, OF A VOTE, YOU KNOW, UH, WELL YOU'RE THE TWO, SO THAT'S A QUORUM.
DISCUSSION OF CONSIDERATION OF, OKAY.
DO, DO YOU WANT TO, WE'LL GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION.
CAN I HAVE A YOU DON'T HAVE TO.
WELL THAT'S, AND WHAT'S IT ON HERE FOR?
SO WHY DON'T WE JUST, UH, HAVE A DISCUSSION ON THE THREE APPLICANTS.
SO, UM, I DON'T KNOW ANNE REALLY WELL.
I JUST THOUGHT SHE'D BEEN DOING IT FOR A LONG TIME.
AND HASN'T BEEN DOING IT FOR A LONG TIME.
HOW LONG HAS SHE BEEN DOING IT FOR? UM, I DON'T THINK IT'S BEEN A COUPLE YEARS.
I THOUGHT SHE WAS DOING IT LONGER THAN YOU.
NO, SHE GOT ON IT AND THEN FACED THAT FAMILY CRISIS THAT SHE HAD.
I'M THE LONGEST SERVING MEMBER OF THE BOARD.
I WAS BACK THEN, JOE WAS OUR BOARD SECRETARY.
WELL NOW THAT YOU'VE MET AND INTERVIEWED THESE TWO PEOPLE, AND I TELL YOU WHAT, UH, JEFF WAS VERY
[00:35:01]
IMPRESSIVE TOO.YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT JEFF WAS CARRIED MORE OF A BALANCE THAN I EXPECTED IT.
I STILL DON'T THINK HE, I THINK THAT WE HAVE TWO OTHER MEMBERS THAT WE TALK ARE MORE BALANCED.
PERHAPS WE WANT SOMETHING MORE BALANCED.
SO I MEAN, I'M LEANING TOWARD COREY, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO, YOU'RE RUNNING THIS, YOU KNOW, UH, COMMITTEE AND I THINK YOU SHOULD REALLY WELL, I THINK QUITE FRANKLY, IF I'M, YOU KNOW, SPEAKING AS CHAIR, IN MY EXPERIENCE, I LIKE COREY'S MEDICAL BACKGROUND CUZ REALLY THE PSPS S IS SHIFTING TO REALLY JUST RETIREMENT RESPONSIBILITY, RETIREMENT HEARING RESPONSIBILITY.
AND I LIKE THE FACT THAT SHE'S GOT BOTH MENTAL AND PHYSICAL HEALTH EXPERIENCE.
UM, ANNE IS BEEN A WONDERFUL BOARD MEMBER AND SHE'S HAPPY TO CONTINUE TO SERVE, BUT SHE'S ALSO TOLD ME THAT IF WE FIND A GREAT PERSON, DON'T HA YOU KNOW, DON'T FEEL BAD ABOUT PICKING THEM.
SO, AND THAT MAKES ME FEEL BETTER.
BECAUSE I ALWAYS TEND TO LEAN TOWARD THE INCUMBENT, IF YOU WILL.
AND JUST AS, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'VE BEEN REALLY GOOD.
BUT BEING THAT SHE DID SAY THAT TO YOU, UH, I, I WOULD THEN GO WITH COREY.
I, I SUPPORT COREY BEING APPOINTED TO THE BOARD TOO.
RECOMMEND, I, WE RECOMMEND, WE RECOMMEND TO THE COUNCIL.
SO WILL BE ON THE NEXT, UH, NOT ON THE NEXT COUNCIL, THE NEXT TUESDAY'S MEETING, IT WOULD BE THE FOLLOWING.
UM, DO WE HAVE TO VOTE FOR THAT? I MEAN, OKAY.
I'M STILL GETTING NEW TO THIS
DAN, YOU'LL LET THEM, EVERYBODY KNOW YOU DO THAT? AH, YES.
THE HATCH, THE DIRTY WORK GOES TO THE NEW GUY,
THEN THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED.