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30.[Special City Council on September 12, 2023. ]
RECORDING.HUH? WHY DON'T WE GET STARTED? YOU TRUST AN APPLE WATCH.
THE CALL THIS ME TO ORDER AT 1 29.
I KNOW IT'S ONE 30 SEPTEMBER 12TH.
MADAM CLERK, CAN YOU DO THE ROLL CALL? SURE.
SHE'S EXCUSED FOR THE TIME BEING.
SHE'LL TRY TO MAKE WHATEVER PARTS YOU CAN.
UH, UPON, UH, ITEM THREE EXECUTIVE SESSION, UPON A MAJORITY VOTE OF THE MEMBERS CONSTITUTING A QUORUM, THE COUNCIL MAY HOLD AN EXECUTIVE SESSION THAT IS NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC FOR THE FOLLOWING PURPOSES, AND WE'RE GONNA GO WITH B FIRST.
THAT'S BECAUSE DISCUSSION IN CONSULTATION FOR LEGAL ADVICE WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY TO CONSIDER THE CITY'S POSITION AND INSTRUC ITS ATTORNEY REGARDING ATTORNEYS REGARDING PENDING OR CONTEMPLATED LEAK, UH, LITIGATION OR SETTLEMENT DISCUSSIONS IN ORDER TO AVOID OR RESOLVE LITIGATION IN A MATTER OF GATEWAY WEST LLCS.
UH, AND IT'S A, UH, A R S 12 DASH 1134 NOTICE OF CLAIM REGARDING 15 CULTURAL PARK PLACE.
THIS MATTER IS BROUGHT IN EXECUTIVE SESSION PURSUANT TO A R S 38 DASH FOUR.
CAN WE HAVE A MOTION TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION? MIKE, A COMMENT FIRST? WE COULD DO COMMENTS AFTERWARDS.
ALL IN FAVOR? SAY YOU CAN HAVE DISCUSSION.
I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE SOME COMMENT ABOUT HAVING A CLOSED DOOR CONFIDENTIAL SESSION ON ITEM A.
YOU SAID WE'RE GONNA START B THEN WE'LL COME BACK OUT OF THE CLOSED AND THEN GO BACK INTO THE CLOSE.
IS THAT OUR PROCESS TODAY, MARY? YES.
SO, MR. MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, COUNSEL, I THINK THAT'S GONNA BE WAY BEST TO BIFURCATE THESE THIS TIME.
USUALLY WE'LL TRY TO COMBINE 'EM, BUT THIS TIME IT'S GONNA BE COMPLETELY, I JUST WANNA MISS THE OPPORTUNITY.
OKAY, WELL WE HAVE DIFFERENT NUMBERS ON 'EM AS WELL, SO, OKAY.
SO, UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
AND HE OPPOSED? OPPOSED? DID WE GET A SECOND? YEAH, BRIAN.
I'LL PRESENT TO A, NO, SORRY, I'M OPENING THE SECOND PORTION.
THIS SO THAT YOU CAN FIRST, RIGHT.
SO I'M GETTING DIRECTION HERE.
SO WE'RE GOING TO, UH, OPEN IT BACK INTO, UH, PUBLIC SESSION AND THEN WE WILL, UH, THERE'S NO OBJECTION.
WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC SESSION AND WE'LL GO INTO, CAN WE GO INTO OBJECT? WE CAN ADJOURN THIS MEETING AND AJOUR THIS MEETING.
THAT'S THE SAME MEETING? NO, IT'S THE SAME MEETING.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE, THAT'S WHY I WANNA MAKE SURE I GOT IT RIGHT.
UH, I SEE UPON PUBLIC MAJORITY VOTE, THE MEMBERS CONSTITUTING QUO COUNCIL MAY HOLD AN EXECUTIVE SESSION OF NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC FOR THE FOLLOWING PURPOSES.
ITEM A DISCUSSION CONSIDERATION REGARDING EMPLOYMENT ASSIGNMENT, AND, UH, APPOINTMENT OF A NEWED CITY MANAGER, INCLUDING A RECRUITMENT AND SELECTED PROCESS FOR LEGAL ADVICE.
THIS MATTER IS BROUGHT IN EXECUTIVE SESSION PRESUMED TO A R S 38 DASH 4 3 1 0.03, A ONE AND A THREE.
AND I KNOW PETE HAS SOMETHING HE WANTS TO SAY, BUT I THINK WE, SO WE'RE GOING TO EXECUTIVE SESSION.
UH, AND THEN, UH, WE DON'T WANNA VOTE YET BECAUSE WE WANT TO HEAR FROM PETE.
SO IF THE MOTION IS TO MOVE TO CLOSE SESSION, THEN I'LL MAKE A COMMENT.
SO CAN I HAVE A MOTION? MOTION DO THAT? CLOSED SESSION.
SO, PETE, YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT TO, I DO.
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READ SOME THOUGHTS THAT I PUT TOGETHER THIS MORNING THAT, UH, AND I AM GONNA MAKE AN ARGUMENT ABOUT, UH, HAVING THIS DISCUSSION HERE AND NOW ABOUT THE CITY MANAGER RECRUITMENT, BUT DOING SO IN AN OPEN SESSION RATHER THAN CLOSED SESSION.I THINK THAT AROUND THIS TABLE, WE ALL WANT TO HONOR OUR OBLIGATIONS UNDER THE ARIZONA MEETING LAW, OUR CITY ATTORNEY, KURT AND I DISAGREE WITH SOME OF, UH, THE DETAILS ABOUT HOW A R S 38 431 0 3 A ONE APPLIES IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE, BUT I WOULD, WE AGREED, UH, THIS MORNING IN A CONVERSATION THAT THERE IS NO CASE LAW OR AG OPINIONS DIRECTLY ON POINT HERE.
AND WE'VE AGREED TO SUBMIT A QUESTION TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ABOUT WHETHER THE CITY MANAGER RECRUITMENT PROCESS STEPS CAN BE DISCUSSED IN THE CLOSED SESSION, BUT THAT ANSWER WILL BE FOR ANOTHER DAY.
SO, I CONTEND THAT NOTHING IN THE LAW SAYS THAT WE HAVE TO CONVENE BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, EVEN FOR AUTHORIZED TOPICS, UNLESS THE LAW SPECIFIES THAT WE MUST.
AND I REFER TO A R S 38 4 31 0 9 SAYS THAT WE SHOULD CONSTRUE EXECUTIVE SESSION DECISIONS, QUOTE, QUOTING FROM THE STATUTE IN FAVOR OF OPEN AND PUBLIC MEETINGS.
THERE'S ALSO AN ATTORNEY GENERAL OPINION 1 96 0 12 THAT STATES QUOTE, THE OPEN MEETING LAW PROHIBITS PUBLIC BODIES FROM CONDUCTING IN EXECUTIVE SESSIONS, LENGTHY INFORMATIONAL GATHERING MEETINGS THAT EXPLORE THE OPERATION OF PUBLIC PROGRAMS AND RECOMMENDS A BIFURCATED PROCESS, WHICH WOULD BE BOTH OPEN AND CLOSED.
AND FURTHER, THE ARIZONA OPEN MEETING OMBUDSMAN TELLS US THAT QUOTE, THE PUBLIC BODY MUST WEIGH THE LEGISLATIVE POLICY FAVORING PUBLIC DISCLOSURE AND THE LEGITIMATE CONFIDENTIALITY CONCERNS UNDERLYING THE EXECUTIVE SESSION PROVISIONS.
SO NOW I FULLY APPRECIATE THAT WILL ENCOUNTER ITEMS IN OUR CITY MANAGER RECRUITMENT DISCUSSIONS OVER TIME THAT CAN AND SHOULD BE DISCUSSED IN CLOSED SESSION.
BUT WE'RE EARLY IN THIS PROCESS AND THERE'S BEEN NO OPEN DISCUSSION YET AS TO WHAT WE PLAN TO DO.
SELECTION OF THE SEARCH FIRM, MEETING THE RECRUITERS, DISCUSSING THEIR QUALIFICATIONS, TALKING ABOUT PROCESS STEPS, ALL OF WHICH I ANTICIPATE WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT TODAY, IN MY OPINION, ARE BEST DONE IN PUBLIC.
PERHAPS TODAY, WE WILL ENCOUNTER A LEGITIMATE CONFIDENTIALITY CONCERN, AND IF WE DO, THEN I WOULD SUPPORT MOVING AT THAT POINT INTO A CLOSED ISSUE.
SELECTING A CITY MANAGER IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT TOPICS OUR CONSTITUENTS AND TRUST TO CITY COUNCIL.
I URGE US TO LEAN TOWARDS OPEN GOVERNMENT AND LET OUR COMMUNITY AS INFORMED AS POSSIBLE.
THE I C M A SAYS A MAJOR DECISION POINT IS THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE ADMINISTRATOR PROFILE, WHICH I THINK IS ALSO ON A, A TOPIC TODAY.
AND WE AS A COUNCIL NEED TO CAREFULLY CONSIDER WHAT OUR COMMUNITY NEEDS, WHAT OUR CITY STAFF NEEDS, AND WHAT OUR COUNCIL NEEDS IN WITH A NEW MANAGER.
IT'S AN AWESOME RESPONSIBILITY AND IT'S BEST DONE BY INFORMING THE PUBLIC.
NOT MOVING TO CLOSE, BUT HAVING TODAY'S DISCUSSION RIGHT HERE AND NOW WITH THE RECORDER ON.
ANY COMMENTS FROM THE COUNCIL? IS THERE ANY SUPPORT FOR PETE'S, UH, POSITION? ANY OPINION, ANY COMMENTS? UM, I THINK MELISSA WAS GONNA GO FIRST.
WELL, JUST, UM, WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THERE IS AN ADVANTAGE TO DOING, UM, THIS CONVERSATION AS AN OPEN MEETING DISCUSSION AS OPPOSED TO AN EXECUTIVE FUNCTION? DO YOU BELIEVE THE PUBLIC IS NEVER GOING TO HEAR THE END RESULT? DO YOU BELIEVE THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO WEIGH IN AND TELL US WHAT, UM, A, A CITY MANAGER SHOULD BE WHEN THEY'RE NOT QUALIFIED TO DO SO? WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE IN YOUR OPINION? UH, FIRST IS MY GENERAL ORIENTATION TO OPEN GOVERNMENT.
I BELIEVE OPEN GOVERNMENT IS GOOD GOVERNMENT, AND I BELIEVE THAT INFORMING YOUR CONSTITUENTS OF ALL THE ISSUES IN THE DELIBERATION SO THEY CAN SEE WITH WHAT WE STRUGGLE WITH AND WHAT WE DON'T, WHAT MAKES SENSE AND WHAT WE DON'T.
AND IN MANY ALL CITY MANAGER A HIRING PROCESSES THAT I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN IN THE PAST, THERE IS DEFINITELY A ROLE FOR THE PUBLIC.
WHETHER THEY'RE QUALIFIED TO MAKE AN OPINION OR NOT, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THEM THAT WE BRING
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THEM ALONG ON THIS JOURNEY THAT IS, AS I SAID, THE MOST SIGNIFICANT DECISION THAT WE'RE GONNA MAKE AS COUNCIL.ARE YOU GOOD, MELISSA, KATHY? SO, I'M JUST A LITTLE CONCERNED THAT IF, IF WE, I, FIRST OF ALL, I LEAN TOWARD DOING THINGS IN A TRANSPARENT WAY.
I DO THINK THAT THIS IS A AREA THOUGH, WHERE IS A REAL RISK OF US HAVING SOME DISCUSSION IN PUBLIC THAT WILL DRIFT OVER INTO STUFF THAT NEEDS TO BE PROTECTED.
BECAUSE I CAN'T IMAGINE IN MY HEAD HAVING THIS CONVERSATION WITHOUT, AT TIMES PULLING UP KAREN AS A EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE LIKE OR DON'T LIKE, UNLIKELY
AND I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW WE HAVE THIS CONVERSATION WITHOUT, IF WE, IF WE DON'T DO THIS IN EXECUTIVE SESSION, I THINK WE RUN A RISK OF GOING INTO EXEC, COMING OUT, GOING, GO BACK IN, COMING OUT.
I JUST, I UNDERSTAND AND I REALLY LEAN TOWARD, UH, YOU KNOW, OPEN GOVERNMENT, WHATEVER WE CAN, AND I CLEARLY SEE THAT THERE ARE PARTS OF THIS THAT THERE'S NOT A REASON TO HAVE IT IN, IN, IN EXEC IF THEY COULD BE SEPARATED.
AND ONLY TO THAT, BUT BECAUSE I THINK WE'RE GONNA GO BACK AND FORTH SO MUCH, I THINK THE MOST EFFICIENT AND THE MOST REALLY OPEN WAY WE CAN HAVE THE CONVERSATION AND NOT WORRYING ABOUT THAT IS BY STAYING IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
I, I APPRECIATE THAT AND, AND I KNOW THAT DOING OUR BUSINESS IN PUBLIC IS NOT EASY.
BUT I SAY THE RISK OF DOING IT ALL IN CLOSED SESSION IS THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY VIOLATING THE LAW.
AND KURT AND I HAVE A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION ON THAT.
BUT I READ YOU PARTS FROM THE STATUTES THAT CLEARLY SAY WE SHOULD LEAN TOWARDS OPENNESS AND WE SHOULD NOT HAVE LENGTHY CONVERSATIONS IN PRIVATE ABOUT PUBLIC MATTERS.
UH, BRIAN, I'M STILL FORMULATING MY THOUGHTS ON THIS.
UM, IF, IF WE WERE TO MAKE THIS DISCUSSION PUBLIC RIGHT NOW, IT'S NOT AGENDIZED AS PUBLIC, THEREFORE ARE WE ACTUALLY ABLE TO PROCEED RIGHT NOW IT'S ON THE AGENDA.
UM, JUST 'CAUSE THIS AGENDA IS, THAT'S, THAT'S ALL THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, COUNSELORS IS IT NEEDS TO BE ON THE AGENDA.
AND SO IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER IT WAS AGENDAS FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION OR OPEN.
SO THIS CONVERSATION IS BEING RECORDED AND IS AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC.
WE, SO WE COULD, YES, THIS IS, WE'RE AN OPEN SESSION STILL RIGHT NOW.
WE HAVE NOT MOVED IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
SO THIS IS PUBLIC, WE RECORDED AND IT COULD DISCONTINUE AND YOU COULD DO ALL OF IT IN, IN OPEN SESSION IF YOU WANTED TO.
MY OPINION, OBVIOUSLY AS COUNCILOR FURMAN STATED IS THAT WHILE YOU MAY DO THIS IN OPEN SESSION, THE LAW SPECIFICALLY ALLOWS COUNSEL TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION TO CONSIDER THE EMPLOYMENT APPOINTMENT AND ASSIGNMENT OF THE CITY MANAGER.
AND THAT NECESSARILY INCLUDES, UM, EVERYTHING THAT WAS GONNA BE DISCUSSED TODAY, WHICH INCLUDES THEIR DECIDING WHEN TO HIRE, SETTING A TIMELINE FOR HIRING, EDUCATION, EXPERIENCE, QUALIFICATIONS FOR THE CANDIDATE, OTHER ATTRIBUTES OF THE CANDIDATE SETTING A SALARY RANGE, UM, THE INTERVIEW PROCESS, INTERVIEW QUESTIONS, ALL OF THAT CAN BE DONE IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
THERE WAS NOT GONNA BE ANY LENGTHY PROGRAM DISCUSSION OF THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE IN, IN THE EXECUTIVE SESSION.
BUT YOU AND I AGREE THAT THERE IS NO AG OPINION OR CASE LAW THAT SUPPORTS YOU SAID THAT AN ANSWER TO THIS YOU, THAT THERE'S, THERE'S NO YES, THERE'S NO DIRECT AG OPINION OR CASE LAW DIRECTLY ON POINT ON ON THIS QUESTION.
HOLLY, I, UM, I HEARD WHAT YOU SAID.
I DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR INTERPRETATION.
I THINK THIS IS A PERSONNEL MATTER AND I THINK IT'S CLEAR PERSONNEL MATTERS CAN BE DISCUSSED IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
AND I WANT TO BE FREE TO TALK ABOUT THINGS I LIKE AND THINGS I DON'T LIKE ABOUT VARIOUS PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN IN THIS POSITION CURRENTLY AND IN THE PAST.
ALWAYS GOOD THINGS TO SAY ABOUT THE CURRENT MANAGER, BUT, UH, I DON'T WANT TO RUN THE POSSIBILITY OF VIOLATING A PRIVACY ISSUE FOR SOMEONE BY MAKING A STATEMENT.
'CAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF I'M AN EXECUTIVE SESSION OR OPEN SESSION THAT COULD BE DETRIMENTAL TO AN INDIVIDUAL.
SO I WOULD PREFER THAT WE DISCUSS QUALIFICATIONS IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
'CAUSE I THINK THEY ARE AROUND PERSONNEL AND YOU WON'T BE SURPRISED.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT KAREN'S PRO PROS AND CONS, IF WE FIND ANY CONS OR OTHER PAST CITY MANAGERS, THEN THAT SHOULD BE DONE IN, IN PRIVATE.
AND WE WOULD UNDER MY PROPOSAL, ADJOURN TO A CLOSED SESSION FOR THAT SECTION OF THE CONVERSATION.
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GONE YET.THE THE OTHER THING IS NOT JUST EVEN ABOUT THE INDIVIDUALS, BUT WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT IS POTENTIALLY COMPENSATION.
AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK HAS TO HAPPEN IN A CLOSED SESSION.
AND THAT'S A BIG PART OF THIS TO ME IS WHAT THAT'S GOING TO LOOK, THAT PACKAGE IS GONNA LOOK LIKE.
SO THAT I WANNA MAKE SURE IS PROTECTED IN AN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
UH, THE SAME WAY YOU FOUND THE LAST DISCUSSION TO BE OFFENSIVE.
I FOUND PART OF WHAT YOU SAID TO BE OFFENSIVE.
WE HAVE A CITY ATTORNEY THAT WE JUST HIGHLY RATED THE CITY ATTORNEY.
YOU'RE GOING AGAINST THE CITY ATTORNEY'S, UH, OPINION.
YOU, YOU MADE A COMMENT A FEW MINUTES AGO ABOUT WELL WE'RE GOING, YOU'RE GOING TO, UH, GO TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR A DECISION THAT'S NOT GONNA, I BELIEVE SHE CAN COMING TO COUNSEL NOT FROM ONE COUNSELOR.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE ALL AGREED TO GO TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OR THE AT ALL IN THAT, UH, MY OPINION IS THIS.
UH, I AGREE WITH PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING THAT WAS SAID HERE.
THIS, AND I'VE DONE THIS BEFORE.
UH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE DONE, YOU HAD A STRONG MAYOR BACK IN CALIFORNIA.
WELL HERE WE DO, UH, UH, MANAGERS AND EXECUTIVE STAFF IN EXECUTIVE SESSION FOR THE REASONS OF THIS.
JUST MY OPINION OF WHERE I I SAY COMPENSATION INSURANCE OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR, WHO WE'RE LOOKING FOR.
IF ALL OF THAT, IF IT WAS OUT TO THE PUBLIC, COULD TIP THE SCALES TO SOMEBODY WHO WE MAY NOT WANT.
WE MAY END UP HIRING 'EM AND IT TURNED OUT NOT TO BE THE PERSON WE WANT.
I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE ALL IN ALIGNMENT FOR THE PERSON THAT WE WANT.
AND THAT SHOULD BE DISCUSSED IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
EVERYTHING ELSE WILL BE DONE IN PUBLIC WHEN WE DO INTERVIEWS.
WHEN WE WE'RE GONNA HAVE, EXCEPT FOR THE ACTUAL INTERVIEWS, ONE-ON-ONE IS GONNA GO OUT TO THE PUBLIC.
WE'RE GONNA HAVE PUBLIC MEETINGS, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE, UH, UH, MEETINGS WITH STAFF.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE, UH, THE CANDIDATES ONCE WE WHITTLE IT DOWN, THERE'S A WHOLE LOT THAT'S GOING TO BE IN THE PUBLIC.
IS, THIS IS NOT GONNA BE SECRET WITH LIEUTENANT GONNA TURN AROUND AND POST ON THE RED ROCK NEWS.
BUT WHAT WE ARE GONNA DECIDE TODAY, I THINK I, I'M VERY STRONGLY AGAINST DOING THAT IN PUBLIC.
SO I'M NOT ASKING FOR A COMMENT.
I'M JUST GIVING YOU MY OPINION.
I'D LIKE TO REACT TO A COUPLE THINGS THAT YOU SAID THOUGH, MAYOR.
KURT AND I HAD A CONVERSATION AND WE MADE THAT AGREEMENT.
IF, IF WE DID THAT, UH, UH, IN, IN ERROR AND IT NEEDS A COUNCIL VOTE.
MAYOR, YOU DIDN'T LISTEN TO WHAT I SAID.
KURT AND I HAD THE CONVERSATION AND HE AGREED THAT IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S NEVER BEEN SETTLED AND THERE'S SOME QUESTION THAT POTENTIALLY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL COULD IT, IT, UH, HELP US AND ME WITH IN FUTURE TIMES THAT I, UH, HAVE PROBLEMS WITH PROCESS POLICY ISSUES IN, IN CLOSED SESSION.
AND IF WE NEED A COUNCIL VOTE ON THAT, I'M WILLING TO ACCEPT THE COUNCIL'S DECISION ON THAT.
KURT HAS ALREADY SAID THAT HE WOULD DO THAT, BUT PERHAPS HE DOESN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO, TO MAKE, UH, THAT DECISION.
IT'S PROBABLY BEST TO HAVE THE COUNCIL VOTE ON IT.
THE MAJORITY INSTEAD OF DIRECTION OF ONE, IT IT, YOU KNOW, REGARDING SOME OF THESE DETAILS WE'RE GONNA SET AT SOME POINT IN THIS PROCESS, THE RANGE OF SALARY THAT'S GONNA BE IN A BROCHURE THAT'S GONNA BE OUT IN PUBLIC.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, SALARY RANGES FOR ALL OF OUR EMPLOYEES ARE PUBLIC INFORMATION.
SO WE'RE NOT NEGOTIATING A SALARY, A SPECIFIC NUMBER.
AND AT THIS POINT, AND IF WE DID, I WOULD AGREE THAT THAT'S CLOSED SESSION, BUT SETTING THE RANGE AND MY OPINION IS NOT CLOSED SESSION.
I THINK OUR CONSTITUENTS DESERVE TO HEAR OUR THOUGHTS OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR AND WHY WE WOULD SET A RANGE AT A CERTAIN RANGE.
AND AND TO THAT POINT, MR. MAYOR, IF I MAY, THE, THE ONE EXCEPTION, SO WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A SPECIFIC PERSON IN THE EXECUTIVE SESSION, UM, THEY CAN DEMAND THAT THEY'RE WHEN BE IN AN OPEN SESSION.
THE EXCEPTION IS, IS SALARY DISCUSSIONS.
UH, COUNSEL CAN KEEP THAT IN, UM, IN PRIVATE, EVEN IF THE PERSON DEMANDS THAT IN PUBLIC.
AND LET ME JUST TOUCH ON THIS, KURT, TELL ME IF I'M WRONG.
IF WE CAME UP WITH A SALARY RANGE, BUT WE DISCUSSED A RANGE AND SAID SOMETHING THAT'S ON THE RECORD WHERE WE WENT FROM 180 TO 200 TO TWO 20 TO TWO 30, AND THEN WE BROUGHT IT BACK DOWN, IT MAY GIVE A PERSPECTIVE EMPLOYEE OR PROSPECTIVE MANAGER TO NEGOTIATE
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AFTER, YOU KNOW, ONCE WE'VE GIVEN 'EM A PACKAGE THAT THE CITY, UH, ATTORNEY NEGOTIATES WITH THEM, IF THEY LISTEN TO THAT, THEY MAY HEAR, WELL, I, I COULD REALLY GET MORE MAYBE $20,000 MORE OUTTA THAT BECAUSE THEY WOULD DISCUSSING THAT.I THINK THAT WOULD STILL BE A UNFAIR ADVANTAGE ONCE IT'S SENT.
IT'S ON THE BROCHURE, I GET IT.
BUT NOBODY NEEDS TO HEAR WHERE WE WERE GOING WITH THAT.
I THINK IT'S, IT'S JUST WRONG.
MY OPINION AGAIN, MELISSA, JUST, JUST SORT OF GENERAL COMMENT LISTENING TO, TO EVERYONE SPEAK, UM, WE'RE ALL HUMANS AND, UH, AS THE DIRECTION OF CONVERSATION FLOWS MM-HMM.
IT, IT BECOMES VERY EASY TO MENTION AN INDIVIDUAL OR TO MENTION, UM, SOMETHING ELSE THAT BECOMES, OH WAIT, NO WAIT, TAKE THAT OFF THE PUBLIC RECORD PLEASE AND LET'S MOVE TO AN EXACT SESSION.
SO I THINK, I THINK JUST BECAUSE WE'RE HUMAN, WE RUN THE RISK OF VIOLATING SOMEONE'S PRIVACY OR VIOLATING SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULDN'T BE VIOLATING BY HAVING SAID IT IN OPEN SESSION, NOT THINKING ABOUT, OH WAIT, I HAVE TO SAY WE NEED TO MOVE TO CLOSED SESSION SO I CAN SAY A PARAGRAPH SO WE CAN THEN MOVE BACK TO OPEN SESSION.
SO I THINK THE MOVEMENT BETWEEN, I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT, BUT THE MOVEMENT BETWEEN, WE'LL STOP AND STIFLE THE FLOW OF CONVERSATION AND THE FLOW OF THOUGHT AND I THINK IT PUTS US AT RISK FOR SAYING THINGS ON THE RECORD THAT REALLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN HELD OFF THE RECORD.
THERE'S A MOTION ON THE TABLE.
UH, UNLESS FURTHER DISCUSSION.
IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? OKAY.
IS THERE A SECOND? FOR THE MOTION? SECOND.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR TO MOVE INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION? SAY AYE.
WE ARE NOW IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
BRENDA, CAN YOU LOCK THE DOOR PLEASE? YOU HAVE TO OPEN THE DOOR TOO.