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IS EVERYONE HERE THAT[Board of Adjustment Officer Hearing]
NEEDS TO BE HERE? YES.UM, BASED ON MY REVIEW OF PAST MINUTES, WE USUALLY START WITH A PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
WHY DON'T WE ALL STAND AND I'LL LEAD IN THE PLEDGE? I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD INVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
OKAY, ARE WE ON THE RECORD? VERY GOOD.
UM, THIS IS THE DATE AND TIME SET FOR A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HEARING.
IT'S WEDNESDAY, APRIL 3RD, 2004.
THIS IS CASE NUMBER, UM, VA R 24 DASH 0 0 0 1, INVOLVING, UH, THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 24 SEDONA VIEW DRIVE.
MAYBE I CAN BEGIN BY JUST INTRODUCING MYSELF.
MY NAME IS MIKE GOME, UH, AND I WANNA JUST DISCLOSE A FEW THINGS ABOUT MYSELF TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY OBJECTION TO ME PROCEEDING IN THIS HEARING.
FIRST OF ALL, I WAS EMPLOYED BY THE CITY OF SEDONA FOR, WELL, FROM 1995 TO 2015 AS THE SEDONA CITY ATTORNEY, AND THEN I WAS ALSO EMPLOYED A COUPLE YEARS LATER AS THE CITY MAGISTRATE FROM 2017 TO 2019.
I HAVEN'T HAD ANY INVOLVEMENT WITH THE CITY EXCEPT IN GETTING A BUILDING PERMIT MYSELF SINCE THAT TIME.
UM, IS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT ME OR MY PAST THAT WOULD RAISE ANY OBJECTIONS BY ANY PARTY TO ME PROCEEDING AS BEING THE HEARING OFFICER? NO, SIR.
I'LL NOTE THAT THERE ARE NO OBJECTIONS, UM, IN THIS, UH, MATTER.
THE APPELLANT, UH, SEEKS APPROVAL OF TWO SEPARATE VARIANCES.
UH, ONE IS A VARIANCE FROM THE 15 FOOT SIDE SETBACK BUTTING THE STREET, AND A VARIANCE OF THE REQUIREMENT THAT THE DRIVEWAY SHALL BE NO LESS THAN 20 FEET LONG.
UH, MAYBE WE CAN BEGIN WITH THE PARTIES ALL IDENTIFYING THEMSELVES.
WE'LL START WITH THE APPLICANT OVER HERE.
DO YOU WANNA IDENTIFY YOURSELVES? UH, YES.
I'M THE PROPERTY OWNER AT 24 SEDONA VIEW DRIVE.
MY NAME IS RYAN PROSKY AND I'M THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR THAT DID THE JOB.
AND THAT'S PRONOUNCED PROSKY? PROSKY, YES.
AND DAVID NICOLA WITH SEFTON ENGINEERING, THE OWNER'S REPRESENTATIVE.
AND FOR THE CITY I AM CARRIE MEYER.
I'M THE PLANNING MANAGER AND C CHRISTENSEN CITY ATTORNEY.
AND WE ALSO HAVE OUR BUILDING OFFICIAL AND OUR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR, UM, BEHIND ME TO ANSWER QUESTIONS IF THEY'RE OKAY.
COULD I, UH, JUST GET THEIR NAMES FOR THE RECORD? STEVE METI IS THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR.
AND DAVE ZELLNER IS THE CHIEF BUILDER.
UH, I THINK, UH, I WOULD LIKE TO BEGIN LETTING THE APPLICANT START SINCE THEY, IN MY VIEW HAVE THE BURDEN OF PROOF HERE.
AND SO I'LL LET YOU MAKE ANY KIND OF PRESENTATION YOU WANNA MAKE AT THIS POINT.
UH, FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO THANK STAFF FOR WORKING WITH US.
UH, WE WORK TOGETHER VERY WELL.
AND, UM, AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE PACKET THAT WAS PUT TOGETHER, IT WAS A, A VERY THOROUGH PRESENTATION.
UM, I THINK, UM, IT WAS REPRESENTED VERY WELL.
THE CODES THAT ARE APPLIED ARE ALL, ALL IN THERE.
UM, AND, AND BASICALLY, UM, IT DOES SEEM, UH, A BIT OF AN UNFORTUNATE SITUATION.
UH, THE WAY THAT THE BUILDING WAS CONSTRUCTED TO THE GARAGE ITSELF WAS COMPLEX, CONSTRUCTED TO COMPLETION.
UM, AND, AND THE, THE, UH, ERROR OR THE, THE, THE BUILDING BEING IN THE SETBACK WASN'T DISCOVERED UNTIL THE END OF THE PROCESS, WHICH IS VERY UNFORTUNATE.
SO IN, YOU KNOW, READING THROUGH THE, THE VARIANCE REQUIREMENTS, THE THE FOUR PART TEST, UH, THAT'S IN THE CODE, UH, WE TRIED TO ADDRESS EVERY ASPECT OF THAT.
AND THEN, UH, RECENTLY ABOUT A WEEK AGO, WE GOT THE RESPONSE FROM THE CITY STAFF ON, ON THEIR POSITION.
UH, AND I THINK IT JUST PRESENTS A VERY CLEAR CASE OF, UH,
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FOR, FOR YOU TO REVIEW AND ULTIMATELY TO MAKE A DECISION.UH, I, I'LL NOTE FOR THE RECORD THAT I HAVE REVIEWED THE ENTIRE PACKET AND, UH, I JUST WANNA GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING FURTHER.
I PROBABLY HAVE SOME QUESTIONS AND, UH, AFTER I HEAR FROM BOTH SIDES, BUT DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING FURTHER YOU WOULD LIKE TO SAY AT THIS POINT? I WOULD LIKE TO SAY, UM, THE LOCATION IS VERY CRITICAL IN THE SENSE THAT IT IS AT THE END OF A CUL-DE-SAC.
AND THAT THE, THE NEIGHBORS THAT WOULD BE MOST IMPACTED BY THE BUILDING ENCROACHING INTO THE SETBACK BY THE GARAGE ENCROACHING INTO THE SETBACK, HAD VOICED, UM, APPROVAL OF IT.
OR IN A SENSE THEY'RE VERY PLEASED WITH ITS APPEARANCE.
THEY'RE VERY GRATEFUL THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER HAS DONE SO MUCH IMPROVEMENT ON THE ENTIRE SITE, INCLUDING THE HOUSE.
AND THAT IT IS A SUBDIVISION THAT WAS, UH, DESIGNED IN THE 1970S, OR IT WAS APPROVED IN THE 1970S.
I, I FORGET THE EXACT NUMBER OF SITES.
I THINK THERE'S 10 SITES, MAYBE A LITTLE MORE.
IT'S, UM, THERE'S ONLY ONE LOT THAT IS NOT BUILT ON YET, AND THAT IS NOT ANY IN THE VICINITY OF WHERE THIS, UH, BUILT THE GARAGE ENCROACHES INTO THE SETBACK.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, BASED ON THE, THE LOCATION, UM, AND THE, UH, THE POSITIVE RESPONSE FROM THE NEIGHBORS, I, I, I THINK IT'S, UH, IT'S APPROVABLE OR I'M, I'M NOT SURE HOW TO SAY THAT, BUT I, I THINK WE'RE IN, UH, I THINK I'VE SAID ENOUGH.
YEAH, I GUESS THE ONLY THING I WOULD ADD TO IT IS, UM, I DID GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF TALKING TO EACH OF THE NEIGHBORS AND EXPLAINING TO THEM, UH, THE SITUATION AND, AND ASK THEM, YOU KNOW, JUST TO, AS A NEIGHBOR, UM, HOW IT IMPACT 'EM.
AND, UH, EVERY SINGLE ONE HAD POSITIVE RESPONSE.
THERE WERE, UM, A FEW LETTERS THAT WERE PRESENTED IN THE APPLICATION ITSELF.
UM, SO I JUST AS THE HOMEOWNER, I'M, YOU KNOW, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE TOOK VERY SERIOUSLY IN THE, IN THE ENTIRE PROCESS.
UM, WHY DON'T WE, UH, NOW LET THE CITY MAKE ANY PRESENTATION THEY WISH TO MAKE? UM, SO AS STATED IN THE PACKET, THE PROPERTY OWNER STARTED WORKING ON RENOVATIONS AND GETTING PERMITS FOR THE HOUSE IN 2022.
WORKED THROUGH A LOT OF DIFFERENT OPTIONS AS THEY WERE CONVERTING A GARAGE, THEY WERE REQUIRED TO BUILD A NEW GARAGE.
UM, LOOKING AT LOCATIONS OF THAT, THERE WAS A COUPLE DIFFERENT LOCATIONS THAT WERE CONSIDERED OVER THE COURSE OF THE ALMOST A YEAR IN, UM, GETTING THE PERMIT.
UM, ONCE THOSE PERMITS WERE APPROVED, UM, THEY STARTED CONSTRUCTION AND, UM, WHEN WE WENT OUT TO DO THE FINAL INSPECTION, DIDN'T LOOK QUITE RIGHT AS FAR AS THE LOCATION OF IT.
THE SURVEY SHOWED IT HAD BEEN BUILT IN THE WRONG LOCATION.
AS WE TALKED WITH OUR BUILDING INSPECTOR AND THE APPLICANT, IT APPEARED THAT WHAT HAD HAPPENED WAS THE, DURING CONSTRUCTION THEY HAD DECIDED TO MOVE THE GARAGE AND WHEN OUR INSPECTOR DID THE SETBACK INSPECTION, HE WAS TOLD THE WRONG PROPERTY LINE TO MEASURE IT FROM.
SO, UM, UNFORTUNATELY THE, UM, THE MIS LOCATION WAS NOT DISCOVERED UNTIL THE END.
UM, TYPICALLY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IS IF SOMETHING HAPPENS DURING THE CONSTRUCTION PROCESS WHERE YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO BUILD IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE APPROVED PLANS, THERE'S A REVISION PROCESS THAT YOU GO THROUGH WITH THE PROPOSED REVISIONS.
THEY DID SUBMIT IT FOR A REVISION, BUT BECAUSE OF THE SETBACK AND THE DRIVEWAY LENGTH, WE COULD NOT APPROVE THAT.
AND SO WE CANNOT FINAL THE PERMIT AS IT'S OKAY.
AND SO THEY HAVE CHOSEN TO APPLY FOR A VARIANCE TO SEE IF THIS IS A WAY TO REMEDY THE SITUATION.
UM, I DON'T SEE ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC, BUT JUST FOR THE RECORD, I'LL OPEN THIS HEARING FOR ANY COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC AND IF THERE'S ANYONE, I DON'T SEE ONE PRISONER COMING FORWARD TO WISHING TO MAKE A STATEMENT.
SO WE WILL GO AHEAD AND CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS.
UM, I JUST HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS.
AS THE PROPERTY, AS THE GARAGE IS BUILT RIGHT NOW, I WENT OUT AND DROVE PAST THE PROPERTY.
UH, WHAT IS THE ACTUAL DISTANCE FROM THE FRONT OF THE GARAGE TO THE STREET AT THIS TIME? 18 FEET, SIX INCHES, I THINK.
SO THE, THE ACTUAL RIGHT OF WAY IN FRONT OF THE, THE, THE GARAGE IS FIF
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A 50 FOOT RIGHT OF WAY, WHICH DOES PUT THE GARAGE FAIRLY CLOSE TO THAT RIGHT OF WAY.THEN THAT WOULD BE ABOUT TWO FEET FROM TWO FEET OR LESS FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY.
AND THEN THERE'S ABOUT 15 FEET OF LANDSCAPING, UH, MAYBE MORE BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY GET TO THE, THE PAVEMENT, THE DRIVE AISLE.
SO WHEN YOU'RE, WHEN YOU'RE ON THE PAVEMENT, THE GARAGE IS BACK, UH, 20 FEET OR SO UNTIL YOU GET TO THE END OF THE RIGHT OF WAY.
AND THEN THE PROPERTY, THE PROPERTY OWNER'S LINE.
MS. MEYER, YOU SAID THAT SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT THAT WHEN THE INITIAL INSPECTION STARTED, THE CONTRACTOR REPRESENTED A CERTAIN, HE USED THE WRONG PROPERTY LINE.
UM, WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY THAT STATEMENT? SO, AND MAYBE OUR BUILDING OFFICIAL CAN SPEAK A LITTLE MORE TO THAT.
I THINK HE'S HAD SOME MORE CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR BUILDING INSPECTOR, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING WAS WITH, WHEN OUR INSPECTOR WENT OUT THERE TO MEASURE A SETBACK, HE WAS TOLD THAT THE SETBACK SHOWN ON THE PLAN WAS MEASURED FROM THE, THE STREET AND NOT THE PROPERTY LINE.
AND SO WHEN THEY MEASURED IT, THEY DIDN'T MEASURE TO THE RIGHT LOCATION.
DOES THAT, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT ANSWERS THE QUESTION.
I CAN SPEAK TO WHY THAT OCCURRED.
'CAUSE IT IS STRUCK ME AS, UM, ODD AS I WAS COMING IN AT THE, THE END OF IT.
SO, UM, WE HAD A SURVEY DONE AFTER THE FACT.
UH, RIGHT NOW, THE WAY THE PROCESS RUNS WE'RE NOT REQUIRED TO DO A SURVEY IN ADVANCE.
IN, UM, IN RETROSPECT, UH, IT WOULD'VE BEEN
SO, UM, I'VE COME TO REALIZE THAT THE WAY THE STREET WORKS AS IT RELATES TO THE HOUSE, UM, ALTHOUGH THE STREET'S HERE, THERE'S A SLOPE THAT COMES DOWN, UM, THE PROPERTY LINE ACTUALLY GOES CLOSER TO THE HOUSE THAN WAS ANTICIPATED IN THE STREET.
AND NOT THAT IT WAS MISREPRESENTED IN THE TRANSACTION AND WHEN I BOUGHT THE PROPERTY, ET CETERA, JUST, UM, THERE WAS REALLY NO REASON TO, TO THINK OTHERWISE, UH, THAT WE WERE WORKING FROM THE STREET.
SO, SO IF I UNDERSTAND YOU THOUGHT THE PROPERTY LINE WAS THE STREET LINE OR, UM, I'M NOT THE PERSON WHO DID THE DESIGN.
I'M AS, THIS IS NOT MY, UH, AREA OF EXPERTISE.
UH, BUT I, I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT WE WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR, UM, YOU KNOW, MAINTAINING UP TO THE STREET.
UM, SO THAT'S, I DON'T KNOW HOW SALIENT AT THAT POINT IS, BUT OKAY.
UM, IT WAS JUST, IT WAS CONFUSING TO ME 'CAUSE I, UM, I HAD NEVER, UM, IT'S MY FIRST TIME DOING THIS, SO I'M LEARNING.
BUT YOU HAD PLANS APPROVED BY THE CITY THAT SHOWED A BUILDING IN A DIFFERENT LOCATION FURTHER BACK.
TELL ME ABOUT THAT DECISION TO CHANGE THE, UH, LOCATION OF THE GARAGE BUILDING.
WHY WAS THAT MADE? UH, MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT AS CONSTRUCTION STARTED AND SOME OF THE BRUSH WAS CLEARED OUT AND SOME OF THE DIRT WAS MOVED, A A DRAINAGE, UH, UH, STRUCTURE WAS DISCOVERED.
UH, AND THAT WAS FAIRLY, UH, CON CONCRETE, UH, SIX OR EIGHT INCH PV UH, PIPE THAT, UH, GOES, BASICALLY IT WAS GONNA RUN RIGHT UNDERNEATH THE, THE FOOTPRINT OF WHERE THE GARAGE WAS GOING TO BE CONSTRUCTED.
AND THAT'S WHAT LED TO THE, UH, THE RELOCATION OF IT AND THEN THE FOOTER TO BE PLACED IN A DIFFERENT LOCATION THAN WHAT WAS APPROVED.
AND SO WHEN YOU REALIZED THAT GEOGRAPHIC PROBLEM WITH THE CURRENT PLANS, WHY DIDN'T YOU GO BACK TO THE CITY AT THAT POINT AND GET REVISED PLANS OR NOTIFY THE CITY OF THAT FACT? WELL, YEAH, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK? YEAH, I WOULD.
SO, AND KIND OF MY DEFENSE IN THIS SITUATION, I FEEL LIKE THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF AN ERROR IN THE APPROVED SET OF PLANTS WHEN WE WERE BUILDING AND CONSTRUCTING THE GARAGE ON PAPER.
IT, IT KIND OF SHOWED THE, THE GARAGE FURTHER BACK THAN WHAT IT CURRENTLY IS.
AND SO I KIND OF CAME UP WITH, I CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHERE THESE NUMBERS ARE OFF IN THE PLACEMENT, SO WHY NOT GO OFF OF THE STREET THAT, YOU KNOW, WAS APPROVED THAT MADE THE MOST SENSE AND THE LOCATION OF THAT MADE IT FURTHER AND CLOSER TO THE STREET.
BUT I FEEL LIKE I STUCK WITH THE APPROVED SET OF PLANS FROM
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THE NUMBERS THAT WERE PROVIDED AND WHAT WAS APPROVED THAT I DID NOT WANT TO EXCEED THAT AND WE DIDN'T.BUT IT ON PAPER, IT, IT LOOKS DIFFERENT THAN REALITY IF THAT'S HELPFUL.
AND I HAVE THE PLANS WHERE I CAN SHOW YOU TOO.
UH, DO WE HAVE ANY KIND OF OVERHEAD OR ANYTHING THAT EVERYONE CAN SEE? I DON'T THINK SO.
DO WE? WE COULD GET IT IF WE NEEDED TO TURN THIS OFF.
I GUESS I, I JUST WANNA UNDERSTAND HOW BEFORE WE GET TO THAT POINT, UH, I GUESS THE QUESTION I HAVE OF THE CITY IS THAT AT SOME POINT THE, UH, THE PROPERTY OWNER BEGAN CONSTRUCTION AND THERE WERE INITIAL INSPECTIONS AND ISN'T IT A NORMAL PART OF YOUR INSPECTION TO LOOK AT WHERE THE PROPERTY IS BEING CONSTRUCTED AND TO SEE IF IT'S IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE PLANS AND EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THIS ERROR WASN'T CAUGHT SOONER.
WHILE WE DO ATTEMPT, UH, THIS IS ZELNER, UM, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, WHILE THE INSPECTOR DOES TRY TO, YOU KNOW, ESTABLISH THAT THEY ARE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE PLANS, THE, BECAUSE THERE WAS NO SURVEY, THERE WAS NO BARKING OF ANY OF THE, THE LINES.
SO WE'RE KIND OF WORKING IN THIS CASE I BELIEVE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A NEW INSPECTOR THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WORKING WITH THE CONTRACTOR TO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, VERIFY WHAT'S GOING ON.
AND I BELIEVE THAT THAT'S WHERE HE THOUGHT BASED ON THE INFORMATION HE WAS PROVIDED, THAT THEY WERE IN THE, THE RIGHT LOCATION.
SO WE DON'T ASK FOR, UM, SITE SURVEYS FOR PERMITS.
THAT'S KIND OF, UH, THE NORM IN ARIZONA.
UH, NOT THE NORM NECESSARILY IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.
UM, AND THAT THE, I THINK FOR COST AND OTHER REASONS THAT'S NOT WELL SUPPORTED BY THE COMMUNITY.
SO WE END UP WITH PLANS THAT AREN'T ALWAYS EXACTLY ACCURATE ON WHERE THE PROPERTY LINES ARE.
UM, THIS ONE I DID VISIT RECENTLY AND EVEN WITH THE, THE MARKINGS THAT THE NEW, THE SURVEY HAS DONE BECAUSE OF THE TOPOGRAPHY, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO EVEN FOLLOW THAT LINE TO ESTABLISH FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER AND, AND, YOU KNOW, FIND IT AND MAKE A, A DETERMINATION ON THAT.
SO, UM, I DUNNO IF THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION.
WELL,
UH, IT WAS SOME SOMEWHAT AMORPHOUS, UM, THERE WAS AN ASSUMPTION I GUESS IS THAT THE BUILDING AS MOVED WAS STILL IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PLANS.
HOWEVER, I JUST HEARD EARLIER THAT THE DISTANCE FROM THE ACTUAL EDGE OF THE STREET TO THE GARAGE IS ONLY 18 FEET, SIX INCHES.
AND I'M JUST WONDERING WHY THAT IN AND OF ITSELF DIDN'T RAISE ANY FLAGS TO ANYBODY THAT THIS WAS NOT BEING BUILT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PLANS.
SO ONE OF THE, AND, AND THIS IS JUST FROM MY EXPERIENCE WORKING IN THE VALLEY, UM, IN SOME LOCATIONS, ESPECIALLY PHOENIX, THE PROPERTY LINE IS DEFINED BY THE CENTER OF THE STREET.
AND SO I THINK IT'S POSSIBLE THAT KIND OF WORKING OFF OF THAT IDEA AND THAT IS NOT THE WAY THAT, YOU KNOW, YAVAPAI COUNTY AND THE CITY ACTUALLY ESTABLISHED THE PROPERTY LINES.
BUT I THINK THAT MAY HAVE BEEN PART OF THE CONFUSION, UM, IN, IN WHY THERE WAS SUCH A DISCREPANCY IN WHERE IT GOT LOCATED IN RELATION TO WHERE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN.
AND YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT AND THAT'S WHAT WE WERE PROVIDED WITH AND THAT'S WHAT I HAD TO WORK OFF OF.
AND THAT'S WHAT WAS APPROVED AND THAT'S WHAT WE DID.
AND YOU KNOW, I TALKED WITH ANDREW, YOU KNOW, BEFORE WE EVEN DUG THE FOOTINGS, WE LAID IT OUT AND I SAID, HEY, THIS LOOKS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF DIFFERENT FROM THE PLAN, BUT HEY, WE'RE, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THESE NUMBERS THAT WERE PROVIDED AND THIS IS WHAT WE'RE WORKING FROM AND THIS IS WHERE WE ENDED UP LIKE, IS THAT OKAY? CAN WE WORK WITH THAT? AND HE DIDN'T SEEM LIKE THAT WAS THAT BIG OF A PROBLEM BECAUSE WE WERE STILL WITHIN THE REQUIREMENTS OF
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WHAT WAS PROVIDED AND APPROVED.AND OBVIOUSLY HE SIGNED OFF ON IT.
SO OF COURSE I FELT CONFIDENT OF MOVING FORWARD.
UM, SO IN YOUR, UH, IN YOUR UH, PRESENTATION IN YOUR, IN THE APPLICATION MATERIALS, THE CITY AT ONE POINT SAYS THE CONTRACTOR MISREPRESENTED THE LOCATION OF THE PROPERTY LINE.
IS, IS THAT STILL THE CITY'S POSITION THAT IN MY UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT WHEN HE MEASURED, HE WAS LOOKING AT THE PLANS AND HE WAS TOLD THIS IS BEING MEASURED TO THIS POINT ON THE, UM, UM, ON THE SITE SO THAT THE, YOU KNOW, THE 28 FEET THAT, OR 15, YOU KNOW, 15 FOOT SETBACK OR THE 28 FEET THAT THE ORIGINAL PLANS SHOW, YOU SAID THAT'S BEING MEASURED HERE.
AND SO I DON'T MET, MAYBE NOT MET THE PROPERTY LINE, BUT THE POINTS ON THE GROUND THAT WERE REPRESENTED BY THINGS ON THE PLANS DON'T SEEM TO HAVE BEEN CORRECT WHEN HE WAS, WHEN OUR INSPECTOR WAS OUT THERE.
UM, ANOTHER QUESTION IS, YOU TALKED ABOUT THIS HIDDEN DRAINAGE STRUCTURE.
UH, LET ME FIRST OF ALL ASK THE CITY, WERE YOU AWARE AT ANY TIME OF THAT DRAINAGE? NO SITUATION? NO.
THE APPROVED PLANS HAD APPROVED DRAINAGE ON THEM AND THEN WHEN THE ISSUE WITH THE LOCATION OF IT CAME UP, THAT'S WHEN WE WERE FIRST MADE AWARE OF THE, WHAT THEY ARE CALLING THE HIDDEN DRAINAGE STRUCTURE.
AND LET ME ASK THE APPLICANT, WHEN YOU BECAME AWARE OF THIS, I THINK AS YOU PUT IT, SOMETHING HIDDEN BY WEEDS AND VEGETATION THAT YOU DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WAS THERE.
YOU'RE SAYING THAT'S THE REASON WHY YOU MOVED THE GARAGE? CORRECT.
IS THE LOCATION OF THAT? IT WAS A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR WHEN WE, WHEN WE SCRAPED THE LOT AND EXPOSED THAT AND WERE LAYING OUT THE GARAGE LIKE IT MADE SENSE WHERE WE HAD IT PLACED, IF WE WOULD'VE PUT IT, YOU KNOW, MORE SO NOT OFF OF THE DIMENSIONS PROVIDED, BUT MORE BASED OFF OF THE PICTURE OF THE PLANS, IF WE WOULD'VE PUT THE HOUSE OR THE GARAGE FURTHER BACK IT, WE WOULD'VE DISRUPTED THAT CATCH BASIN AND CULVERT THAT WAS EXISTING.
SO IT KIND OF BASED OFF OF THE, THE MEASUREMENTS PROVIDED FROM THE STREET AND WITH THAT IT, IT JUST SEEMED TO MAKE SENSE THAT THAT WHERE WE HAVE IT WAS THE MOST ACCOMMODATING LOCATION AND STILL WITHIN OUR SETBACKS.
DOES THAT CATCH BASIN AND CULVERT STILL EXIST? YES, BECAUSE WHEN I DROVE BY THE PROPERTY IT LOOKED LIKE THERE WAS A PATIO BEHIND THE GARAGE WHERE THE GARAGE CORRECT WOULD'VE BEEN LOCATED.
BUT YOU'RE SAYING THAT CATCH BASIN ISN'T THE PART OF THAT PATIO OR, UM, WELL IT'S RIGHT.
THE, THERE'S A APPROXIMATELY, I THINK IT WAS LIKE TWO, TWO AND A HALF FEET BY LIKE THREE FOOT CONCRETE BASIN THAT WAS DOWN BELOW GRADE.
AND SO WE CURRENTLY HAVE LIKE KIND OF A DRAINAGE SWALE THAT RUNS INTO THAT TO BASICALLY REPURPOSE THAT AND THE CULVERT GOES UNDERNEATH THE PATIO PAVERS OUT OFF OF THE HILL.
AND HOW DOES, I MEAN, SO YOU'RE SAYING THIS PREVIOUSLY EXISTING DRAINAGE SYSTEM IS STILL IN USE? YES SIR.
AND HOW DOES THAT COMPORT WITH THE FACT THAT THERE WAS AN ALTERNATIVE DRAINAGE PLAN PROPOSED IN THE PLANS? DID YOU USE THAT, THE DRAINAGE CONFIGURATION THAT WAS APPROVED IN THE ORIGINAL PLANS AT ALL? NO, 'CAUSE THAT WAS, THAT WAS THERE IN EXISTING AND, AND IT JUST, IT MADE SENSE.
IT WORKED WHERE IT WAS AT AND IT WAS A GOOD LOCATION REALLY.
IT, I DON'T KNOW, IT JUST KIND OF HAPPENED AND IT MADE SENSE AT THE TIME.
AND DID THE INSPECTOR CONSULT WITH YOU ABOUT YOUR ALTERNATIVE USE OF THESE ORIGINAL DRAINAGE CONFIGURATIONS? IT REALLY WASN'T LIKE A MAJOR TOPIC, BUT HE, I MEAN HE WAS AWARE OF IT AND SEEN IT AND WAS OKAY WITH IT.
AND I GUESS I ASKED, I'M GONNA ASKED THE CITY, WHAT'S THE CITY'S POSITION ON THE FACT THAT THE DRAINAGE CONFIGURATION IS, WAS EXISTING THERE AND IS STILL BEING USED AND THE DRAINAGE
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IS APPROVED BY THE CITY IS WAS NOT INCORPORATED IN THE FINAL PROJECT? I MEAN, WE ARE ARE YOU OKAY WITH THE DRAINAGE AS IT IS NOW? UM, JUST, I'M, OUR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT DOES THE DRAINAGE INSPECTION, SO I WAS GONNA LOOK AND SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING IN THEIR INSPECTION NOTES.JUST FROM A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT, UM, THE WAY THE LOCATION IS CURRENTLY, THE PROPERTY IS ABLE TO WITHSTAND HEAVY RAIN.
'CAUSE BASICALLY THERE'S, UM, THE DRAINAGE ESSENTIALLY GOES, IT SEPARATES THE HOUSE AND THE GARAGE.
IF IT DIDN'T HYPOTHETICALLY YOU COULD SEE A, A PATTERN WHERE THE WATER WOULD ACTUALLY SEEP INTO THE GARAGE DURING HEAVY RAINS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
SO THE WAY IT'S SET UP, I THINK PRACTICALLY HAVING SEEN IT GO THROUGH A COUPLE OF VERY HEAVY RAINS, UM, THERE'S NO ISSUE IN REGARDS TO THE WAY THE ACTUAL WHAT'S THERE TODAY IS PERFORMING FOR WHAT IT'S, I KNOW THAT WASN'T THE QUESTION YOU ASKED, BUT I THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL.
WELL I GUESS THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS IF WE WERE TO REQUIRE THE APPLICANT TO MOVE HIS GARAGE, UM, TO A PLACE WHERE THIS DRAINAGE STRUCTURE IS, WAS PREEXISTING, DOES THAT MAKE THE ORIGINAL PROPOSED PLANS EVEN FEASIBLE? MM-HMM.
I MEAN IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE FOR HIM TO BUILD THIS GARAGE WHERE IT WAS ORIGINALLY PROPOSED UNDER THE ORIGINAL PROOF PLANS? IT WOULD'VE GREATLY, I JUST, I JUST WANNA HAVE THE CITY RESPOND TO THAT.
YOUR HONOR, IF I COULD RESPOND.
UH, STEVE MERTIS, DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT, UM, WE START OFF BY LOOKING AT THE APPROVED OR LOOKING AT THE APPROVED, I'M SORRY, THE PLANS THAT WERE SUBMITTED, THOSE PLANS SUBMITTED DID HAVE DRAINAGE PLANS AND ISOMETRICS ON THEM THAT OUR ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT LOOKED AT AND APPROVED.
SO ANY CHANGES TO THAT SHOULD ALSO HAVE FOLLOWED THAT REVISION PROCESS.
SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE NEW PLANS, UM, AND PROVIDING THOSE TO OUR ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT FOR THEIR REVIEW, I CAN'T TELL YOU RIGHT NOW WHETHER OR NOT, UH, THAT WOULD BE APPROVED.
BUT YOU, THE CITY IS NOT DISPUTING THAT THERE IS THIS PREVIOUSLY UNKNOWN, UM, DRAINAGE SYSTEM THAT, UH, IS STILL IN EXISTENCE THERE AND THAT WILL HAVE TO BE DEALT WITH IF WE WERE TO REQUIRE THE GARAGE TO BE RELOCATED.
AND THAT WOULD'VE BEEN ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WOULD'VE DISCUSSED AS PART OF THAT REVISION PROCESS, UH, WHETHER OR NOT THAT INLET COULD HAVE BEEN MOVED TO ANOTHER LOCATION AND THE GROUND GRADED TO THAT INLET IN THE NEW LOCATION TO SUPPORT THE LOCATION OF THE, UH, THE GARAGE AS PROPOSED.
BUT IT, IT, IT IS POSSIBLE, ISN'T IT THAT MAYBE THAT DRAINAGE STRUCTURE COULD PREVENT THE GARAGE FROM BEING RELOCATED TO WHERE IT'S NOW WHERE IT WAS ORIGINALLY APPROVED? I MEAN, AND THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING SIR, IS THAT, UM, THE FACT THAT THE STRUCTURE IS THERE DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE STRUCTURE COULD NOT BE ITSELF RELOCATED, UM, TO ACCEPT THE DRAINAGE, BUT WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE CORRECT.
WITHOUT HAVING PLANS AND, AND DOING THE REVIEW.
UM, JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON THE, THE PUBLIC WORKS COMMENTS, THEY OBVI THEY APPROVED THE ORIGINAL PLANS, THEY REVIEWED WHEN THE APPLICANT SUBMITTED FOR A REVISION.
UM, IT SHOWED THE GARAGE AND THE NEW LOCATION, THEY DID REVIEW THAT, BUT BECAUSE OF THE ISSUES WITH THE LOCATION, THEY KIND OF HELD OFF ON PROVIDING FINAL COMMENTS BECAUSE IF WE WEREN'T GONNA APPROVE THE LOCATION OF THE GARAGE, THEY DIDN'T WANT TO GO TOO FAR INTO REVIEWING THE REVISED DRAINAGE.
SO THEY WERE HOLDING OFF ON PROVIDING COMMENTS ON DRAINAGE WITH THE NEW LOCATION UNTIL IT WAS DETERMINED IF THE LOCATION WAS GOING TO BE APPROVED OR NOT.
BUT YOU'RE NOT DISPUTING THE DESCRIPTION OF THE PREEXISTING DRAINAGE SYSTEM THAT BEING IN THE LOCATION OF WHERE THE GARAGE WAS SUPPOSED TO ORIGINALLY BE PLACED.
WE JUST DON'T KNOW IF IT CAN BE MOVED OR NOT.
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UNCLEAR.UM, ARE WE ABLE TO COMMENT ON THAT IN ANY? SURE, GO AHEAD.
UM, AGAIN, THIS NOT BEING MY DETAILED EXPERT AREA OF EXPERTISE AND JUST LOOKING AT IT PRACTICALLY, UM, THE, I DON'T KNOW IF THE GARAGE NEEDED TO BE MOVED THAT WE COULD MOVE IT ONE, UM, IF IT WERE MOVED TO WHERE THE ORIGINAL PLACE WAS BECAUSE OF THE SLOPE, IF YOU LOOKED IN THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY THE WAY IT'S NATURALLY, UM, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THERE'S ENOUGH SEPARATION BETWEEN THE GARAGE ITSELF, UH, AND THE HOUSE TO BE, I I DON'T THINK IT'S WITHIN THE, THE REALM OF THE, THE REQUIRED DISTANCE BETWEEN THOSE STRUCTURES ARE IN ADDITION ON TOP OF THE DRAINAGE PIECE.
SO ARE ARE YOU SAYING THE ORIGINAL PLANS WERE INCORRECT THEN IN RETROSPECT BECAUSE YES, I, I THINK THE ORIGINAL PLANS WERE NOT CORRECT.
AND THOSE ARE PLANS PREPARED BY YOUR CONTRACTOR BY, UH, NO, NO, THEY'RE PREPARED BY A, UM, A ARCHITECT THAT IS NOT HERE THAT I OKAY.
NOT, UH, BUT THEY WERE APPROVED BY THE CITY.
SO THE CITY SAW NO PROBLEM WITH THE SLOPE AT THAT TIME.
BUT NOW, AND THERE'S NOTHING IN YOUR APPLICATION WHERE YOU POINTED OUT THAT THE SLOPE WOULD PRESENT A PROBLEM IN RELOCATING THE GARAGE.
IS THERE, UM, I THINK THAT WAS A GENERAL COMMENT.
UH, COULD YOU FIND THAT FOR ME? I, I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT.
UM, DAVE, DO YOU HAVE THE NARRATIVE ON IT? AND TO CLARIFY, THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT IF THE GARAGE WOULD, WAS BUILT IN ITS APPROVED LOCATION, THERE IS NOT A REQUIREMENT FOR DISTANCE BETWEEN THE GARAGE AND THE RESIDENCE.
SO FROM THE CITY'S PERSPECTIVE, THAT WAS, THAT DISTANCE WAS JUST FINE.
YEAH, THE, THEY, IT, THERE'S NO, NO REQUIREMENT OF SEPARATION BETWEEN THOSE TWO STRUCTURES IF IT WAS BUILT IN THE APPROVED LOCATION.
BUT, UH, MR. TAYLOR, YOU'RE SAYING THE SLOPE OF THE PROPERTY WOULD'VE MADE CONSTRUCTION IN THE ORIGINAL LOCATION IMPRACTICAL.
IS THAT WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY? THIS IS PLAYING MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACK AGAIN, THIS NOT BEING MY AREA OF EXPERTISE FOR TRANSPARENCY.
AND IF IT'S NOT A, A RELEVANT POINT TO THE DISCUSSION.
WELL I JUST, I I JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF YOU HAD ANYTHING BESIDES YOUR OWN NO PERSONAL ANALYSIS, THAT'S JUST YOUR FEELING THAT IT WOULD'VE BEEN, IT, IT'S A MORE DIFFICULT PLACE TO BUILD BECAUSE OF THE SLOPE.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT TOO.
UM, IF, IF THE GARAGE WAS PLACED FURTHER BACK WHERE THAT CULVERT AND DRAINAGE SYSTEM IS, IT WOULD'VE COMPROMISED THE FOOTING FOR THE GARAGE BECAUSE THAT CULVERT PIPE RUNS RIGHT ACROSS THE BACKSIDE OF THE GARAGE THAT'S EXISTING.
NOW, IF THAT WOULD'VE BEEN FURTHER BACK, THAT CULVERT WOULD'VE BEEN RIGHT, RIGHT INTO THE FOOTING FOR THE GARAGE, WHICH OBVI OBVIOUSLY WOULD'VE COMPROMISED THAT.
AND THEN ALSO ON JIM'S POINT, YOU KNOW, THE KIND OF THE CALCULATIONS FOR THE GARAGE BUILT, IF IT WAS KIND OF BASED OFF OF THE PICTURE ON THE APPROVED PLANS, IT WOULD'VE, LIKE THE PROPERTY KIND OF DIVES DOWN, IT'S KIND OF GOT LIKE A BIG WASH TYPE AREA AND, AND IT WOULD'VE MADE THAT GARAGE A LOT FURTHER DOWN IN ORDER TO GET TO LIKE VIRGIN SOIL BECAUSE OF THAT HILLSIDE.
YOU KNOW, THAT BACK CORNER OF BASICALLY WOULD BE THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THAT GARAGE.
I MEAN THE, THE MASONRY WORK AND EVERYTHING TO GET THAT BUILT UP TO WHERE OUR GRADE HEIGHT WAS WOULD'VE BEEN ASTRONOMICAL.
IT WOULD'VE BEEN MORE EXPENSIVE BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE.
IN FACT, ISN'T IT TRUE THAT THAT SINCE YOU HAD ALREADY HAD A PRE-APPROVED DRAINAGE ALTERNATIVE TO THE DRAINAGE SYSTEM, THAT THAT ENTIRE DRAINAGE, ORIGINAL DRAINAGE STRUCTURE COULD HAVE JUST BEEN REMOVED, COULDN'T IT? IT IT COULD HAVE, YES SIR.
BUT BEING, BEING EXISTING IN, IN ITS LOCATION, IT JUST, HONESTLY IT JUST SEEMED TO MAKE SENSE.
YOU'RE SAYING THERE IS GEOGRAPHICALLY SPEAKING WHERE IT'S NOW IS MORE PRACTICAL THAN WHERE IT WAS ORIGINALLY SIR PROPOSED.
AND DOES THE CITY HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THAT CONCLUSION? WE HAVE NOT REVIEWED ANY OF THE, ANY REVISED PLANS.
SO OUR ENGINEERS WHO REVIEW DRAINAGE HAVE NOT WEIGHED IN ON THAT.
[00:35:02]
LEMME SEE IF I HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS HERE.THE CITY IS SAYING IN YOUR, YOUR PRESENTATION IN THE PACKET THAT SHOULD I AGREE TO THIS VARIANCE THAT YOU WOULD REQUIRE TWO ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACES ON THE LOT TO ENSURE OFF STREET PARKING AND UH, I THINK THE APPLICANT, YOU SAID YOU AGREED WITH THAT, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS WE PROVIDED, PROVIDED AN AN EXHIBIT TO SHOW THAT WOULD WORK.
AND THAT WOULD BE TO THE SOUTH OF THE GARAGE CURRENTLY? THAT'S CORRECT.
DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THE PROPOSED, UH, CONDITION THAT VEHICLES WOULD NOT BE PERMITTED TO PARK ON THE DRIVEWAY BETWEEN THE GARAGE AND THE STREET? NO, WE'D MAKE IT VERY EASY USE THE SPACES TO THE SOUTH OF THE CRASH.
UM, I JUST WANNA UNDERSTAND SOME THINGS ABOUT HOW THE CITY DEALS WITH RIGHT OF WAYS AND SO FORTH AND BECAUSE, SO YOU HAVE THE STREET THEN YOU HAVE THE PROPERTY LINE AND BETWEEN THE STREET AND THE PROPERTY LINE IS A PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, RIGHT? YES.
AND THE IDEA IS THAT NO CONSTRUCTION IS SUPPOSED TO TAKE PLACE ON THAT, CORRECT? CORRECT.
AND THAT, THAT RIGHT OF WAY IN THIS CASE IS HOW, HOW LONG IS THE RIGHT OF WAY ITSELF? IT'S 50 FEET WIDE AT, AT THAT LOCATION HOW, I MEAN HOW FROM THE STREET TO THE PROPERTY LINE, HOW, HOW FAR IS THAT DISTANCE? I DIDN'T SEE THAT ON THE, UH, THE PLANS FROM THE, FROM THE PAVEMENT TO THE PROPERTY LINE IS PROBABLY 18 TO 20 FEET.
UM, AND NOTHING IS SUPPOSED TO BE BUILT IN THAT AREA, IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT.
AND UH, YET, UH, HERE AS THE GARAGE IS BUILT, THERE IS, UM, AT LEAST PAVERS IN THAT RIGHT OF WAY.
SO DRIVEWAYS CONNECTING THE PROPERTY TO THE STREET WOULD BE ABLE TO BE IN THAT AREA.
THAT'S, THAT'S TYPICALLY ALLOWED.
THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, BUT ANY OTHER KIND OF STRUCTURES TYPICALLY NOT ALLOWED IN THE RIGHT OF WAY, IS THAT CORRECT? TYPICALLY, I MEAN I THINK THERE'S SOME EXCEPTIONS TO THAT IF YOU GO THROUGH THE RIGHT OF WAY PERMIT PROCESS.
BUT WE GENERALLY WILL WORK WITH THE UM, OUR RIGHT OF WAY DIVISION AND UM, JUST REVIEW WHAT IT IS, WHAT THE PURPOSE OF IT IS AND TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT CAN, BUT YEAH, DRIVEWAYS ARE, UM, YEAH, YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO GET TO YOUR PROPERTY FROM THE ROAD.
SO DRIVEWAYS ARE PRETTY COMMON TO BE IN THE RIGHT WAY AND JUST DRIVING AROUND THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, I NOTICED SOME PROPERTIES THAT HAD LIKE, UM, WELL I'LL JUST SHOW YOU A PICTURE OR TWO.
I JUST TOOK A PICTURE BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE CITY DEALS WITH THESE AND I'LL MARK THESE AS EXHIBIT.
I DON'T, I DIDN'T WRITE DOWN THE ADDRESS, BUT I'LL JUST REPRESENT THAT EXHIBIT ONE AND EXHIBIT TWO 'CAUSE I JUST WANNA SEE HOW THE CITY DEALS WITH THESE THINGS.
AND IF YOU CAN, MS. MEYER JUST COME AND TAKE A LOOK AT THESE AND I JUST WANT, I'LL JUST, AND MAYBE SHOW 'EM TO THE OTHER SIDE AND, UH, YOU PROBABLY, THERE MIGHT BE RIGHT, YOU MIGHT HAVE GONE THROUGH A RIGHT OF RIGHT OF WAY CORRECTION PROCESS OR THESE MIGHT BE PERFECTLY FINE APPROVED BY THE CITY, BUT ONE SHOWS LIKE A LITTLE COLUMN WITH A LAMP AND IT'S LIKE MAYBE THREE OR FOUR FEET FROM THE STREET.
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S TYPICALLY ALLOWED IN RIGHT OF WAYS? UM, WE HAVE ALLOWED THOSE KIND OF THINGS.
SOMETIMES WE'LL LOOK AT IT AS IF IT'S A, YOU KNOW, A FENCE THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED IN A FRONT SETBACK OR A SIDE SETBACK.
UM, WHICH AGAIN IS LIMITED TO FOUR FEET IN HEIGHT AND THREE FEET WITHIN A CERTAIN DISTANCE OF THE PROPERTY LINE.
I THINK ONE OF THOSE SHOWS A BRIDGE THAT HAS A GUARDRAIL THAT'S A BUILDING CODE REQUIREMENT TO PREVENT
[00:40:01]
PEOPLE FROM FALLING OFF.SO THOSE WOULD BE ALLOWED, BUT WE, YEAH, WE WORK WITH OUR RIGHT OF WAY DIVISION TO REVIEW THOSE KIND OF THINGS ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
IS THAT PART OF THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT OR IS THAT YEAH.
AND SO THEY'RE LOOKING AT MAINLY SAFETY CONCERNS I PRESUME, RIGHT? YEAH.
IF THERE'S IMPROVEMENTS THAT THE CITY HAS PLANNED FOR THOSE AREAS, UM, OFTENTIMES THE AREA BETWEEN THE PROPERTY LINE AND THE ROAD SURFACE IS GOING TO BE USED FOR UTILITIES OR THE CITY INTENDS TO PUT IN A PATHWAY OR A SIDEWALK OR SOMETHING.
AND SO THEY'LL LOOK AT WHAT THE, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE PLANS ARE, IS WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED GOING TO IMPACT THE CITY'S ABILITY TO DO THAT.
AND SO THOSE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS THEY'LL LOOK AT FOR EACH.
AND I THINK AT THIS POINT, I MEAN I, I SAW SOMETHING IN THE PACKET THAT THE GARAGE IS CONSTRUCTED THERE, YOU'VE, THERE ARE NO ESSENTIAL SAFETY CONCERNS WITH WHERE IT'S RIGHT NOW, IS THAT CORRECT? THE FIRE DEPARTMENT HAD NO CONCERNS.
YEAH, FROM A BUILDING CODE AND A FIRE CODE PERSPECTIVE, IT, YOU KNOW, IT PASSED THOSE LIFE SAFETY INSPECTIONS.
SO MAYBE THIS IS MORE OF A PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION, BUT THE, THE 15 FOOT SETBACK AND THE 20 FOOT LONG DRIVEWAY, JUST KIND OF HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHY YOU THINK THOSE ARE MADE A PART OF THE REQUIREMENTS FOR BUILDING IN THIS PARTICULAR ZONING DISTRICT.
SO THE 15 FOOT SETBACK IS THE STANDARD EXTERIOR SIDE SETBACK FOR THIS ZONING DISTRICT.
IT'S TO CREATE THE BUILDING ENVELOPE ON EACH LOT.
EVERY LOT HAS A, HAS VARIOUS, HAVE SETBACKS THAT ARE BASED ON THE MINIMUM SIZE OF THE LOTS AND WHAT COULD BE EXPECTED.
AND IT'S TO PROVIDE AN, IS IT MORE OF AN AESTHETIC THING OR ARE THERE SAFETY REASONS FOR HAVING A 15 FOOT SETBACK IN YOUR OPINION? HUH.
UM, IT'S, I MEAN MAYBE OUR, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT SAFETY, IT'S TO CREATE A CLEAR EXPECTATION FOR PEOPLE OF WHERE BUILDINGS ON A LOT COULD BE BUILT.
UM, THE 20 FOOT DRIVEWAY, UM, WAS ADDED TO ENSURE THAT IF YOU'RE WAITING FOR YOUR GARAGE DOOR TO OPEN OR IF YOU DON'T PARK IN YOUR GARAGE 'CAUSE YOU BUILD YOUR GARAGE UP WITH THINGS THAT YOU'RE NOT BLOCKING A UM, THE RIGHT OF WAY AS YOU'RE EITHER WAITING FOR THE GARAGE DOOR TO OPEN OR AS YOU'RE PARKED IN FRONT OF IT.
SO IF I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY, UM, THIS IS SPEAKING TO THE APPLICANT, UM, YOU HAD NEVER DONE A SURVEY PRIOR TO UM, THE MAKING THE PLANS, THE ORIGINAL PLANS? NO.
YOU HAD NO SPECIFIC IDEA OF WHERE THE FRONT PROPERTY LINE WAS? WE USED THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAD THAT WAS GIVEN TO US AT CLOSING THE SURVEY.
THAT WAS, THAT'S THE FIRST TIME YOU WERE MADE AWARE THAT THE PROPERTY LINE CREATED A PROBLEM? YES.
AND UH, THE PACKET, I DON'T KNOW WHAT PAGE IT IS, BUT IT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING OVER THE VARIANCE REQUIREMENTS.
THE CITY MAKES THIS STATEMENT, THE STAFF IS NOT IDENTIFIED IN AN EXCEPTIONAL PROPERTY SHAPE, TOPOGRAPHY BUILDING CONFIGURATION OR OTHER SITE CONDITION THAT CONTRIBUTES TO THE NEED FOR THE REQUESTED VARIANCE.
SO, UM, IS IT YOUR POSITION THAT THIS PREEXISTING DRAINAGE STRUCTURE IS NOT AN EXCEPTIONAL TOPOGRAPHICAL CONFIGURATION OR SOMETHING THAT UH, WOULD BE ABLE TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION
[00:45:04]
FROM THE INFORMATION THAT WE'VE GOT? WE'VE NOT SEEN WHERE IT UM, WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BE MOVED OR, YOU KNOW, THE SITE ADJUSTED TO COMPLY WITH THE ORIGINALLY APPROVED DRAINAGE PLAN.I GUESS IT KIND OF BOILS DOWN TO WHAT AN EXCEPTIONAL PROPERTY SHAPE IS BECAUSE FROM TALKING TO ENGINEERS YOU CAN ALWAYS ENGINEER ANYTHING TO HAPPEN AND UH, I GUESS THAT'S SOMETHING I'LL HAVE TO WEIGH IN BALANCE.
IF THE APPLICANT, I KNOW THIS IS KIND OF MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACKING, BUT IF THE APPLICANT AND YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS DRAINAGE STRUCTURE REALLY AT THIS POINT, DO YOU, BUT IF THE APPLICANT HAD COME TO YOU AND SAID, HEY MY GOODNESS, WE WERE DOING SOME EXCAVATION AND WE CAME ACROSS THIS UH, SIGNIFICANT DRAINAGE STRUCTURE, GEE WHAT DID WE DO? CAN'T WE MOVE THE, I MEAN, HOW WOULD YOU HAVE HANDLED THAT SITUATION? UM, WE PROBABLY WOULD'VE BROUGHT OUR ENGINEERS IN AND TALKED ABOUT WHAT THE DRAINAGE REQUIREMENTS FOR THIS PROPERTY WOULD'VE BEEN.
UM, IF IT WAS JUST COULD NOT BE REMOVED, THEN WE WOULD'VE, YOU KNOW, THE ORIGINAL PLANS ACTUALLY SHOWED A DRIVEWAY COMING OFF THE SOUTH PROPERTY LINE AND KIND OF WRAPPING AROUND.
AND SO IS COULD, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD'VE EXPLORED OPTIONS OF IF WE'RE GOING TO MOVE A GARAGE INTO A SETBACK, CAN WE DO LIKE WHAT'S THE MINIMUM AMOUNT NECESSARY NEEDED TO DO THAT? CAN WE ACCESS THE GARAGE FROM A DIFFERENT SIDE OF THE GARAGE IN ORDER TO STILL MAINTAIN THE 20 FOOT DRIVEWAY? WE WOULD'VE EXPLORED A LOT OF DIFFERENT, UM, OPTIONS IN THAT, IN THAT WAY.
THOSE OPTIONS MIGHT HAVE BEEN MORE EXPENSIVE THAN WHAT, UH, THE COST OF JUST MOVING THE GARAGE FORWARD, BUT, UH, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT UNCOMMON, IS IT? YEAH.
WHEN YOU UN ENCOUNTER UNFORESEEN CIRCUMSTANCES, PRE-DEVELOPMENT? YEAH, WE, YEAH, PEOPLE RUN INTO THINGS AS THEY START EXCAVATING AND THEY FIND IT'S USUALLY MORE ROCK THAN THEY EXPECTED.
WE TRY TO WARN THEM THAT SIT HAS ROCK.
BUT YEAH, SO THERE'S ALWAYS THINGS THAT COME.
THERE'S OFTEN THINGS THAT COME UP IN THE CONSTRUCTION PROCESS THAT WE WORK WITH AND TRY TO FIND SOLUTIONS FOR.
AND AT ANY TIME DID THE APPLICANT COME FORWARD AND DISCLOSE TO YOU AS DEVELOPMENT STAFF THE LOCATION OF THE DRAINAGE STRUCTURE? NOT UNTIL AFTER WHEN WE HAD ASKED FOR THE SURVEY FOR THE ACTUAL LOCATION OF THE GARAGE.
NOT DURING THE CONSTRUCTION PROCESS.
DOES THE APPLICANT DISPUTE THAT STATEMENT AT ALL? UM, CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION PLEASE? THE QUESTION IS, DID YOU EVER, AFTER YOU UH, DISCOVERED THIS DRAIN STRUCTURE, DID YOU EVER GO TO THE CITY AND SAY, HEY, WE FOUND THIS DRAINAGE STRUCTURE, WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT SOMETHING.
UM, WE TALKED ABOUT IT ON SITE WITH THE BUILDING INSPECTOR AND TELL ME WHAT THAT CONVERSATION WAS.
IT WAS, YOU KNOW, HEY ANDREW, YOU KNOW, WE'VE EXPOSED THIS, IT'S HERE, IT'S EXISTING, IT'S REALLY IN A GREAT LOCATION THAT'S GONNA WORK FOR EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE DOING.
AND HE DIDN'T SEEM TO, YOU KNOW, DISAGREE WITH ME AND GAVE US THE GREEN LIGHT TO KEEP MOVING FORWARD.
SO I, I DIDN'T FEEL THAT, YOU KNOW, OUT OF RESPECT FOR HIM IN TALKING ABOUT IT ON SITE THAT IT JUST SEEMED LIKE A GOOD SOLUTION AT THE TIME AND IT DIDN'T FEEL, YOU KNOW, LIKE WE NEEDED TO TAKE IT TO ANOTHER LEVEL TO BRING IT UP.
AND THIS BUILDING INSPECTOR, WHAT WAS HIS NAME? IS THIS ANDREW? IS ANDREW STILL EMPLOYED BY THE CITY? YES.
HE'S NOT HERE TO TESTIFY, IS HE? NO, DAVE IS HIS SUPERVISOR.
AND DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR REACTION TO THAT CLAIM MADE BY THE APPLICANT? SO ANDREW IS A BUILDING INSPECTOR AND NOT THE LANDSCAPE OR THE ENGINEERING OR SITE INSPECTOR FOR DRAINAGE.
SO HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THE ONE THAT COULD HAVE OFFERED ANY KIND OF APPROVAL, UM, FOR THAT.
I'M NOT PRIVY IN THE DISCUSSIONS I'VE HAD WITH ANDREW, THERE HAD BEEN NO MENTION OF THE CULVERT, UM, THERE WAS MENTION OF DRAINAGE, BUT TO WHAT EFFECT THAT YOU KNOW, WAS OR YOU KNOW, CONSISTED OF I HAVEN'T HADN'T HEARD ANYTHING TILL HERE THAT THERE WAS A CULVERT AND CATCH BASIN.
SO, AND THAT WAS NOT MENTIONED BY ANDREW.
[00:50:01]
CAN OFFER YOU ON THAT.WELL LET ME JUST ASK YOU THIS.
DID ANDREW EVER COME BACK TO YOU AND SAY, HEY, UH, THEY'RE GONNA MOVE THE BUILDING UP A FEW FEET CLOSER TO THE ROAD AND I, I SAID OKAY.
DID YOU EVER HAVE ANY KIND OF CONVERSATION WITH HIM ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT? NO.
WE DID NOT HAVE ANY CONVERSATIONS UNTIL LATER INTO THE PROJECT WHEN IT BECAME, UH, WELL WHEN YOU'RE BUILDING INSPECTORS ARE MADE AWARE OF THE FACT ON THEIR INSPECTION WHEN THEY NOTE SOMETHING THAT IS NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE PLANS, WHAT ARE THEY TYPICALLY SUPPOSED TO DO IN THAT SITUATION? THAT WOULD'VE BEEN THE POINT AT WHICH A REVISION WOULD'VE BEEN REQUIRED TO MOVE FORWARD.
SO REGARDLESS OF WHERE THE PROPERTY LINE WAS AND THE DISPUTE ABOUT THE PROPERTY LINE, THE MERE FACT THAT THE BUILDING WAS MOVED FROM ONE LOCATION TO THE OTHER AND IT WAS MOVED WITH THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE BUILDING INSPECTOR, THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SOMETHING THAT SHOULD HAVE TRIGGERED THE REVISION PROCESS, CORRECT? YES.
AND THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN TRIGGERED FROM THE CITY'S PERSPECTIVE, CORRECT? THAT WOULD'VE BEEN SOMETHING THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE TRIGGERED NOT JUST SOMETHING THAT THE APPLICANT SHOULD HAVE TRIGGERED? CORRECT.
I THINK THE APPLICANT STILL BEARS A RESPONSIBILITY IF THEY MAKE THAT CHANGE THAT THEY APPLY FOR THE REVISION.
IT IS, YOU KNOW, WE TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE AS INSPECTORS TO PREVENT PROBLEMS LIKE THIS THAT WE DO ASK AND YOU KNOW, WE, THERE HAS BEEN A QUESTION THAT WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WORKING TO RESOLVE ABOUT WHEN WE SHOULD ISSUE STOP WORK ORDERS IN RELATION TO WORK THAT IS OCCURRING THAT'S NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE PLANS.
SO, UM, I THINK AT THAT TIME ANDREW WAS NEW ENOUGH THAT THAT WASN'T SOMETHING HE, YOU, YOU KNOW, AN AWARENESS AND THE UNDERSTANDING MAY NOT HAVE BEEN THERE.
WELL YOU'RE NOT DISPUTING THE FACT AS, AS REPRESENTED BY THE APPLICANT THAT THIS BUILDING INSPECTOR WAS AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THE FOOTPRINT OF THE BUILDING WAS BEING MOVED SUBSTANTIALLY.
AND SUBSEQUENT TO THAT HE APPROVED PLANS WITH THE BUILDING BEING IN A DIFFERENT LOCATION.
I BELIEVE ANDREW WOULD SAY THAT HIS UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT THE, THE PLANS WERE UNCLEAR THAT I THINK THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS AGREED UPON AND THAT BASED ON THE, YOU KNOW, DISCUSSIONS HE HAD WITH MR. PROSKY, THAT THEY WERE STILL IN COMPLIANCE WHILE RELOCATING IT.
SO AS A BUILDING INSPECTOR, IF I WAS TO LIKE BUILD A GARAGE ADDITION AND I REPRESENTED IT TO BE SAY FIVE FEET FROM A PARTICULAR SETBACK AND I SAYS I WANNA MAKE IT THREE FEET, THAT'S SOMETHING A BEDDING INSPECTOR COULD JUST SAY, YEAH, THAT'S GOOD ENOUGH.
YOU COULD, YOU'RE STILL AWAY FROM THE SETBACK.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO REVISE THE PLANS AT ALL.
UM, JUST, YEAH, GO AHEAD WITH THAT.
DOES HE HAVE THAT KIND OF DISCRETION? TWO, YES.
IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS THEN WE DON'T REQUIRE, YOU KNOW, UM, THERE IS SOME DISCRETION THAT'S ALLOWED, SO.
AND, UH, WHAT CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THE DISTANCE THAT THIS GARAGE WAS MOVED, THE PROPOSED GARAGE TO THE COMPLETED GARAGE? HOW MANY FEET TO THE WEST WAS IT MOVED? TOTAL EITHER SIDE.
CARRIE, DO YOU HAVE THAT? IT'S ABOUT, UM, JUST UNDER 18 FEET.
'CAUSE IT WAS APPROVED WITH A 20 FOOT STEP BACK AND IT WAS BUILT WITH A TWO TO TWO AND A HALF FOOT SETBACK.
SO THIS GARAGE WAS MOVED 18 FEET CLOSER TO THE STREET.
AND SUBSEQUENT TO THAT CONSTRUCTION BEGINNING OR EVEN BEFORE THE CONSTRUCTION BEGAN, THAT MOVEMENT WAS TACITLY APPROVED OR WAS NOT RED FLAGGED OR ANYTHING BY THE BUILDING INSPECTOR.
IS IS THAT HOW THE APPLICANT SEES IT? YES.
[00:55:02]
BECAUSE THERE WAS CONFUSION THE BUILDING INSPECTOR STRIKE THAT YOU'RE SAYING A BUILDING INSPECTOR HAS THE AUTHORITY TO APPROVE A MOVEMENT OF THAT MAGNITUDE WITHOUT REQUIRING REVISED PLANS.GIVEN THAT MAGNITUDE, THAT WOULD NOT BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THE INSPECTOR'S DISCRETION.
I DON'T BELIEVE I HAVE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS.
DOES EITHER PARTY WISH TO ADD ANY CLOSING STATEMENTS OR COMMENTS START WITH THE APPLICANT? WELL, AS MENTIONED EARLIER, UM, THIS SUBDIVISION WAS PLATTED IN THE 1970S, UM, WHICH GAVE CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME FOR TREES AND VEGETATION TO GROW IN THAT PUBLIC RIGHT RIGHT OF WAY, WHICH DID, UM, CLEARLY I THINK FROM EVERYONE'S TESTIMONY TODAY, GIVE THE IMPRESSION THAT THE PROPERTY LINE MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN WHERE, WHERE IT WAS ORIGINALLY THOUGHT TO BE.
UM, AND THAT THE, GIVEN ALL THAT, WHEN YOU GO OUT THERE, IT DOES LOOK LIKE IN FACT THAT THE, THE, THE RIGHT OF WAY WHERE ALL THAT LANDSCAPING IS, IS THE PROPERTY OWNER'S, UH, LAND.
AND, UM, THEN WHEN YOU, UH, CONSIDER HOW MANY VEHICLES WILL BE DRIVING BY THE SITE ON A DAILY BASIS, IT'S BASICALLY ONLY THE RESIDENCE WHICH HAVE VOICED, UH, THEY HAVE NO CONCERN WITH THE LOCATION OF THAT GARAGE.
UM, THEY'VE VOICED THAT THEY ARE, UM, VERY PLEASED WITH ALL THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT WERE DONE TO THE PROPERTY.
IT'S THAT BASICALLY, UH, AN IMPROVEMENT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND WOULD DID YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING ELSE? JUST THAT I'M APPRECIATIVE OF YOUR TIME AND THE CITY'S TIME AND GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
I'VE LEARNED A LOT THROUGH IT, SO THANK YOU.
I REALLY APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S OKAY.
YEAH, AND I WOULD SAY THAT THE, UM, WHEN, WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE, THE PLAN SET AND, AND THE, THE REVIEW TIME, IT WENT THROUGH A YEAR, A YEAR'S TIME OF REVIEW AND BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, OVER 90% OF THE PLANS DIDN'T CHANGE EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING REMAINED THE SAME IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, THE, THE FOUNDATION THICKNESS, THE FRAMING, THE ROOFING, THE COLORS, THE HEIGHTS, THE ROOF PITCH, EVERYTHING REMAINED THE SAME.
THE ONE CHANGE THAT DID HAPPEN WAS THE RELOCATION OF IT, WHICH TECHNICALLY WAS APPROVED IN THE FIELD, UM, WHICH THEN TRIGGERED THE REMAINDER OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF ALL THAT.
ANYTHING ELSE? THE CITY WISHES TO SAY NOTHING BEYOND WHAT'S IN THE PACKET.
UM, I'M GONNA TAKE THIS UNDER ADVISEMENT AND BE ISSUING A WRITTEN OPINION WITHIN 21 DAYS.
I JUST WANNA NOTIFY BOTH PARTIES THAT YOU HAVE A RIGHT, I BELIEVE AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, STAFF, UH, TO APPEAL THIS TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
IS THAT CORRECT? AND THEN I THINK YOU EVEN HAVE A RIGHT BY WAY OF SPECIAL ACTION TO APPEAL IT TO THE SUPERIOR COURT IF YOU'RE NOT SATISFIED WITH, WITH THAT DECISION.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT THOSE OPTIONS CLEAR ON THE RECORD.
IF THERE'S NOTHING, NOTHING FURTHER, WE'LL UH, ADJOURN THIS HEARING AND IT'S APPROXIMATELY 1102.
SO THE 21 DAYS SIR, WILL THAT COME THROUGH THE SNAIL MAIL PROCESS OR HOW WILL THAT BE? UH, I JUST HAND IT TO THESE FOLKS AND THEN I DUNNO WHAT THEY DO AFTER THAT, BUT I'M SURE THEY'LL LET YOU KNOW.