* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:02] OKAY, WE'RE RECORDING. [Planning and Zoning Selection Committee on October 7, 2024.] OKAY. SO THIS IS OCTOBER 7TH AT TWO 30 IN THE AFTERNOON, WE'LL CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER. AND THIS IS THE PLANNING AND ZONING INTERVIEW, UH, PROCESS FOR NEW COMMISSIONERS. UH, WE'LL START THE MEETING OFF. UM, APPLICANT GARY WHITEHILL HAS DECLINED TO, UH, PARTICIPATE. HE JUST WITHDREW THIS MORNING. SO HE, HE'S ON THE AGENDA, BUT I WANTED IT ON THE RECORD AS TO WHY HE'S NOT BEING INTERVIEWED. HE WITHDREW HIS APPLICATION. HE WITHDREW HIS APPLICATION, VOLUNTARILY WITHDREW. OKAY. I'LL DO ROLL CALL. MAYOR, YOU HAVE TO DO ROLL CALL. GO AHEAD. YES. OKAY. MAYOR BLO. PRESENT. VICE MAYOR PLU. HERE. CHAIR LEVIN. HERE. SEAT WALL HERE. WE COULDN'T DO IT WITHOUT EVERYBODY BEING HERE. UM, OKAY. SO WE WILL NOW HAVE, UH, THE FIRST APPLICANT, UH, HENRY. SKIP. BEN. BEN. DO YOU KNOW HOW TO PRONOUNCE IT? I WILL ASK HIM. I BENJI, BEN? YEAH. PROBABLY ALWAYS SAY THE J IT'S THE THIRD. MR THREE. I WILL GO. I'LL BE RIGHT BACK. IS HE HERE? YES. YES. OH, GREAT. HE'S IN THE LOBBY. OKAY. IS THE APPLICANT THIS PROBABLY NEXT TO SIT HERE? WE ALSO HAVE WATER IF YOU'D LIKE SOME WATER. OKAY. I'M FINE. HI, SKIP. HI, HOLLY. HOLLY, NICE TO MEET YOU. SKIP. NICE TO MEET YOU. HOW ARE YOU PRONOUNCING YOUR LAST NAME? BEN? IT IS BEN RJ? YEAH. OKAY. KATHY IS THE CHAIR OF THE PZ. OKAY, GREAT. SO WE'LL GET STARTED. WE DO NOT BITE. OKAY. WE DON'T GET, YOU KNOW, NOT AGGRESSIVE OR ANYTHING. THIS IS CALM BLACK. OKAY. SO WE HAVE, UH, THESE QUESTIONS FOR YOU. ALRIGHT, GREAT. SEVEN QUESTIONS. AND, UH, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR APPLYING. YEAH, GREAT. AND COMING IN FOR TODAY'S INTERVIEW. NICE. WELL, I WAS LOOKING FOR SOMETHING TO BE MORE ACTIVE IN THE COMMUNITY, SO THIS IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING GOOD YEAH. FOR YOU TO DO. WE GOING JUST ROUND ROBIN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO START? SURE. UM, WHY DO YOU WANT TO SERVE ON THE FINANCE LIVING COMMISSION? AS TELLING ME THAT I WAS, I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR SOME WAY TO GET MORE ACTIVE IN THE COMMUNITY. I FULLY RETIRED TWO YEARS AGO. UM, I WAS INVOLVED IN CONSTRUCTION MOST OF MY CAREER, SO YEAH, I NOTICED MOST OF THE PROJECT ARE SOMEWHAT CONSTRUCTION RELATED, SO I'M NOSY NATURALLY ANYWAY. YOU'RE A PE, RIGHT? I AM, YEAH. YEAH. UHHUH . AND WHAT WAS YOUR AREA OF SPECIALIZATION? MECHANICAL AND ELECTRICAL. I'M DUAL LICENSED. OKAY. THANK YOU. YOU CAN TAKE IT THERE. OKAY. OOPS. AND JUST RAN OUTTA BANK WRITING IT DOWN. OKAY. SO, I'M SORRY. SO YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH READING BLUE GLUCOSE? YEAH. AND DRAINAGE. YEAH, I, AGAIN, I FOCUS MORE MAINLY ON UTILITIES. SO OTHER PEOPLE WERE CONCERNING THEMSELVES WITH DRAINAGE. MM-HMM. . UM, I WAS IN MEETINGS AND REVIEWS, BUT I WASN'T THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE SIGNING OFF. I WAS IN STAMPING. YEAH. THE ELECTRICAL, MECHANICAL PORTIONS OF CONSTRUCTION FACTORIES. YEAH. YEAH. VERY FAMILIAR. LIKE DRAINAGE. IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT IF YOU HAD THAT KIND OF EXPERIENCE WITH DRAINAGE, ESPECIALLY IN CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS. SO WHAT DID YOU DO WITH, IF YOU DON'T MIND, I TELL GO FOR IT. WHAT DID YOU DO AS CONSTRUCTION C BUILT AND MAINTAINED? INTEL'S, WELL, FIRST TIS AND THEN LATER INTEL'S CONSTRUCTION FACTORIES. OH, INTEL. OKAY. YEAH. SO, AND THAT WAS MINI GEOGRAPHIES INCLUDING ISRAEL, CHINA AND JAPAN. UHHUH IRELAND. MM-HMM. OREGON. ARIZONA. OKAY. EXCELLENT. OKAY. THE COMMISSION ASKED TO REVIEW DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS FOR THINGS SUCH AS COMPLIANCE WITH CITY'S DESIGN REQUIREMENTS, IMPACT ON THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD AND COMPLIANCE, UH, WITH ADOPTED CITY PLANS AND ORDINANCES. WHAT EXPERIENCE, KNOWLEDGE, OR PERSPECTIVE WOULD YOU BRING TO THE COMMISSIONER IN, UM, THE PHOENIX AREA FOR A WHILE? I WAS, UM, PART OF AN ARCHITECTURAL COMMITTEE FOR A LARGE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, A 2,500 PERSON OR 2,500 HOME HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION. SO, AND THEY'RE THE SAME THING IF SOMEBODY WAS DOING A HOME EDITION, [00:05:01] ANYTHING ELSE? THEY MIGHT DID THE REVIEW COMMITTEE. WHAT'S THAT? I, I REVIEW COMMITTEE FOR THEM AND THE PLANS AND THEN AFTER THEY WERE DONE, THEN WE'D HAVE TO GO INTO THE FIELD AND INSPECT IT. AND TYPICALLY I WAS ON A TEAM WHERE, UH, ARCHITECTS OR PEOPLE OTHER OTHERS WOULD, UM, GIVE A THUMBS UP OR THUMBS DOWN ON THE ARCHITECTURAL BEAUTY OF WHATEVER THAT ADDITION WAS. MM-HMM. . BUT MINE WAS MORE THE UTILITY SYSTEMS. OKAY. HOLLY, IF SO, WE HAVE A LOT OF, OF, UM, DIVISIVENESS IN THIS COMMUNITY ON DEVELOPMENT. WHERE IS THAT? I'VE HEARD SHE'S BUILDING UP TO THE QUESTION. I'VE HEARD SOMETIMES YOU, YOU KNOW, ARROWS WILL COME YOUR WAY. . YEAH. SO IF, IF A, UM, A PROJECT MET CITY DESIGN STANDARDS AND CODES. RIGHT. BUT YOU PERSONALLY DID NOT LIKE THE PROJECT 'CAUSE IT WAS RIGHT NEXT TO MY HOUSE OR SOMETHING OR YOU JUST DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE NEED MORE HOTELS FOR, FOR EXAMPLE. OH, OKAY. YEAH. YEAH. UH, WOULD YOU BE COMFORTABLE SETTING ASIDE YOUR PERSONAL YEAH, I'D DISCUSS THAT WITH THE GROUP, WITH THE COMMISSION AND GET OTHER PEOPLE'S OPINIONS. MAYBE FOR SOME REASON I HAVE A BIAS. SO, SO YOU WOULD VOTE AGAINST NO. OR YOU WOULD VOTE IN FAVOR OF SOMETHING BECAUSE IT MET. YEAH. EVEN, YEAH. OKAY. YEAH. WHAT, BUT WHAT I DISCUSS WITH OTHERS AND UNDERSTAND WHY THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE. WELL, FIRST OF ALL, YOU UNDERSTAND YOU CAN'T DISCUSS WITH OTHERS ANYWHERE BUT THE DAYS, RIGHT. SO YOU CAN'T CALL UP ON THE PHONE AND SAY, HEY, HOW DO YOU FEEL? GIMME YOUR OPINION RIGHT AWAY FROM THE DAYUS. YOU COULD TALK TO TWO OTHER COMMISSIONERS. OKAY. BUT YOU CAN'T TALK TO A THIRD FOR FOUR IS A VIOLATION OF THE OPEN MEETING LAWS. OKAY. BUT SAY YOU'RE ON A DUS AND FOUR OTHER PEOPLE SAY, I DON'T, I DON'T JUST DON'T LIKE IT. UH, IT'S GONNA BLOCK MY, IT'S GONNA BLOCK SOMEONE'S VIEW. I DON'T WANT THAT HOUSE. WHATEVER. IT'S RIGHT. BUT IT'S A VIOLATION OR IT'S AGAINST THE CODES. SO, BUT TAKING YOUR THOUGHT, YOUR POINT OF SAYING, WELL, I'LL TALK TO THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS AND OR SEE WHAT THEY'RE GOING, BUT THEY'RE GOING WRONG AND YOU KNOW THAT'S WRONG. HOW WOULD YOU VOTE THAT? I WOULD ASK, SO WHERE IN THE CODE DO YOU SEE, UH, THAT THIS WOULD BE A VIOLATION? AND IF THEY COULD POINT THAT OUT, GREAT. OKAY, I MISSED THAT. THANKS. BUT IF IT'S PERFECTLY ALIGNED TO THE CODE, IT'S JUST POTENTIALLY OTHER BIAS THAT'S LIKE RIGHT. THE, UH, SOMETIMES THE DECISIONS ARE CLOSE, YOU KNOW, FOUR, THREE, BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW OF AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IT MEETS THE STANDARDS. RIGHT. OH, OKAY. BUT, AND YOU WOULD KNOW THAT, LIKE THE DESIGN VIEW, THE COMMUNITY PLAN, UH, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE SURE. ALL WOULD SAY ONE THING. YEAH. BUT THERE'S A POSSIBILITY YOU COULD VOTE AGAINST THOSE. OKAY. FOR AN UNKNOWN PERSONAL BIAS. YEAH. YES. YEAH. SO SAY THERE WERE THREE OTHER PEOPLE THAT WERE DOING THAT, BUT YOU KNEW TO BE WRONG BECAUSE YOU READ, YOU KNOW, ALL THOSE DOCUMENTS. YEAH. YEAH. HOW WOULD YOU FEEL? UH, SO WE MEET WHAT, TWICE A MONTH USUALLY. SO, I MEAN, THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WOULD PROBABLY BE AN OPEN DISCUSSION WITHIN THAT MEETING. RIGHT. AND, AND JUST TO GIVE YOU A HEADS UP, YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO MEET WITH STAFF YEP. TO ASK QUESTIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, IN YOUR MIND, YOU COULD ACTUALLY MEET WITH THE, THE, THE CHAIR, THE COMMISSION CHAIR. SURE. AND SHE COULD, WOULD, I'M SURE SHE HAS A VAST AMOUNT OF KNOWLEDGE MORE THAN I ACTUALLY HAVE. RIGHT. . BUT TO KNOW, YOU KNOW, TO GUIDE YOU SURE. AS TO NOT WHAT HER OPINION MIGHT BE. RIGHT. BUT WHAT IT SAYS RIGHT HERE, WHAT'S THE DOCUMENT IT SAYS RIGHT HERE? SO YOU, YOU WOULD GO INTO YOUR MEETING PREPARED SURE. WITH THE RIGHT KNOWLEDGE. SO KNOWING THAT, AND THERE WERE THREE OTHER COMMISSIONERS THAT SAID, AH, IT'S A PURPLE, I DON'T LIKE PURPLE, WHATEVER. BUT THE DOCUMENT IS YEAH. THAT'S NOT A VIOLATION. SO WE CAN'T REALLY VOTE AGAINST IT. IF IF EVERYTHING'S COMPLIANT, THEN THAT'S HOW YOU'D VOTE. YEAH. THAT'S, THAT'S, YOU GOT A HUNDRED PEOPLE IN DON'T IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE YEAH. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE RULES, YOU GOTTA WORK TO CHANGE THE RULES. THAT'S WELL SAID. YES, IT IS. WELL SAID. BUT SOMETIMES, UM, BOTH THE COMMISSION AND THE, UH, AND THE COUNCIL, IF WE REFER TO THAT, WILL, UM, FIND THAT THERE IS BOTH INTERPRETATION AND A CERTAIN SUBJECTIVENESS. SURE. THE WAY THE PHRASEOLOGY MIGHT BE IN THE COMMUNITY PLAN, NOT SO MUCH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE THAT'S KIND OF, YOU KNOW, BLACK AND [00:10:01] WHITE. SO IT, IT'S INTERESTING SOMETIMES WE FIND OUR DECISION BEING OVERTURNED, OF COURSE WE'RE POINTED AND POLITICALLY RUN FOR THEIR POSITION. BUT, UM, YOU, YOU CAN SEE, AND WE HAVE SEEN NOW FREQUENTLY WHERE, UM, PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSIONS, UM, RECOMMENDATIONS, WHICH ARE 90% IN LARGE PART RECOMMENDED BY OUR VERY COMPETENT STAFF TO SOMETIMES BE FLIPPED OR FLIPPED. BUT, UM, THIS COUNCIL MAY BE LOOKING FOR MORE FROM THE DEVELOPER, UM, THAN WE, THAN WE DID. AND THEY HAVE MUCH MORE GRACE IN THE ROOM TO DO THAT. SO IT'S NEVER QUITE BLACK AND WHITE WHEN IT LEAVES US . BUT THERE IS THIS REALM OF SUBJECTIVITY, ESPECIALLY AS YOU TRY TO INTERPRET THE WORDS OF THE COMMUNITY PLAN AND RELATE IT TO YOUR DECISION TO APPROVE OR NOT APPROVE SURE. THE PROJECT. AND THAT'S KIND OF FUN AND CHALLENGING BECAUSE IT IS SO, BECAUSE IT'S VERY EASY TO, YOU SAID YOU TAUGHT IT, UH, SUSTAINABILITY, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THIS SUSTAINABILITY AND THERE'S THIS SUSTAINABILITY. SURE. SO I WANNA GET BACK TO THAT BECAUSE I'M INTERESTED IN, IN YOUR COURSEWORK, BUT WE HAVE TO DO THESE REQUIRED QUESTIONS FIRST. OKAY. UM, FOUR. NUMBER FOUR. YES MA'AM. WHAT DO YOU SEE AS IMPORTANT PLANNING ISSUES FACING THE CITY? YOU ANSWERED THIS VERY WELL IN YOUR APPLICATION OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS, AND WHY ARE THEY IMPORTANT? YOUR APPLICATION ADDRESSES? YEAH. . UM, IT'S OBVIOUSLY TRYING TO BALANCE THE NEEDS OF THE HOMEOWNERS AND THE TOURISTS IS, IS OBVIOUSLY ONE FACTOR. TRANSPORTATION IS SOMETHING THAT IN MARCH, APRIL AND OCTOBER FALL BREAK THAT EVERYBODY SEEMS TO GET FRUSTRATED ON. I HAVE MANY FRIENDS FROM PHOENIX THAT COME UP AND THEY JUST, THEY'LL AVOID MARCH AND APRIL RIGHT NOW. YEAH. YOU MEAN CIRCULATION RATHER THAN TRANSP? YEAH. YEAH. WELL, I, I ALSO BIKE AROUND THE CITY. EVERYTHING ELSE. I'M NOT JUST THINKING JUST TO THE CARS. CARS, YEAH. PREDOMINANTLY CARS. BUT I'M AFRAID TO BIKE FOR THE CITY ANYMORE. . I'VE HAD A COUPLE BUMPS. REALLY A SHAME. DID YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN THOSE ISSUES, CHORES AND HOMEOWNERS AROUND, UH, CONSTRUCTION IMPACTS FOR SOME OF THE LARGER PROJECTS? JUST THE FACT THAT THE IMPACTS OF THE EXISTING HOMEOWNER AR AREA, IF LARGE AMOUNT OF CONSTRUCTION OCCURS, AND I NOTICE THERE'S A IMPACTS IN THE SURROUNDING AREAS. LET ME UNDERSTAND YOUR, YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT. YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT IMPACTS OF NEW CONSTRUCTION? UH, CORRECT. IN COMMERCIAL AREAS. UH, I GUESS I, I GOT A FRIEND THAT'S RIGHT OFF 89 A WHERE THE MM-HMM. HOTEL THAT THEY'RE LOOKING THERE IN SADDLE ROCK. MM-HMM. . SO HE AND HIS WIFE ARE REALLY CONCERNED 'CAUSE THEY'RE RIGHT NEXT TO IT, SO. SURE, SURE. YOU KNOW, AND THAT, THAT IS SO DIFFICULT BECAUSE OF THE WAY THIS TOWN DEVELOPS. RIGHT. WE HAVE THIS LITTLE CORE, THE COMMERCIAL RESIDENTIAL, THAT'S HOW IT ALL STARTED, STARTED OUT. IT'S EASY IF YOU'RE JUST A QUARTER MILE OFF OF 89 A GETS PRETTY EASY, BUT RIGHT. RIGHT. SO TAKING THAT SAME IDEA IN THE SAME LOCATION, YOU HAVE A NEIGHBOR YEAH. GOOD FRIEND THAT SAYS, OH MAN, YOU AND THAT COMMISSION, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO? BUT ALL THE GUIDELINES FIT. YEAH. AND, AND AS COMPARED TO MOST OF THE PLACES I'VE WORKED, THESE ARE PRETTY DETAILED GUIDELINES. RIGHT. UM, THEY'RE LIKE THAT FOR A REASON. BUT I'VE DONE CONSTRUCTION OF MANY COUNTRIES AND I NOT SEEN ANYTHING SO WELL ARTICULATED. HERE'S THE STRICT RULES YOU HAVE. I'M USED TO, WE'RE A GLOBAL EXAMPLE. I'M USED TO VERY LOOSE SET OF GUIDANCE, BUT THEY'RE LIKE THAT BECAUSE SOMEONE TRIED TO GET OVER ON THE CITY SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE. RIGHT. TOOK ADVANTAGE IN SOME WAY AND THE PUBLIC IS CONCERNED IN THEIR OWN WAY. BUT, AND THERE WERE A LOT OF ISSUES. I MEAN, ON THAT PROJECT WITH THE HOTEL, THE RESIDENTS CAUGHT A LOT OF IT AS OUR STAFF DID. AND YET THE VOTES WERE GOING THE WAY THEY WENT. RIGHT. SO, UM, I NOTICED THE SCOPE CHANGED OVER THE YEARS. SO EVIDENTLY SOME THEY WERE LISTENING, WHICH IS GREAT. RIGHT. WE TRY TO LISTEN, BUT IF, BUT NO MATTER HOW MUCH WE LISTEN, WE DON'T LISTEN TO QUITE TO THE PEOPLE. WE DON'T LISTEN TO. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE DEVELOPERS? OH, DEVELOPERS, YES. BUT THE DEVELOPER CHANGED OVER WHAT THEY'RE MM-HMM. . MM-HMM. . OH, WHAT THEY SHOWED CHANGED RESPONSE YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR. [00:15:01] THEY DID WHEN THEY TALKED ABOUT IT. BUT THEN WHEN THERE WAS SOME RESIDENTS IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD IMPACTED THAT SAID, WAIT A MINUTE, YOU JUST SAID NO BALCONIES, YOU'VE GOT BALCONIES HERE. YEAH. YOU KNOW, THERE WERE THINGS THAT, AND THAT'S WHY IT'S GOOD, UH, YOU KNOW, KATHY TO SAY, WELL, CAN YOU READ PLANS BECAUSE OH YEAH, YEAH. STAFF READS IT, THEY, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL THERE, BUT YOU NEED SOMEONE ELSE TO CATCH IT. IT DOESN'T HURT. SURE. OKAY. ALRIGHT. EXCUSE ME. DOES THE ADOPTED SEDONA COMMUNITY PLAN REFLECT CURRENT COMMUNITY VISION AND VALUES? PLEASE GIVE EXAMPLES OF REASONS FOR YOUR ANSWER. SO, READING THROUGH MOST OF THEM, THE, THE 10 YEAR PLANS, THEY, I SAW BALANCE EVERY, EVERY PLAN WAS TRYING TO, NOT JUST, I DON'T, I DON'T JUST WANT HOUSES, RESIDENTIAL HOUSES. I DON'T WANT JUST PUT APARTMENTS. EVERYTHING WAS PRETTY BALANCED. SO I THOUGHT WAS THAT WAS GOOD. AND THERE WERE, EVEN WITHIN SOME OF THOSE PLANS, THERE WAS, UM, IT'S BALANCED AND, AND KIND OF A, A VOICE THAT SAID, WE WANT TO KEEP IT THAT WAY. SO THAT'S THE GOAL. WITHIN THE 10 YEAR PLAN, WE'RE GONNA TRY TO MAKE SURE WE MOVE TO SOMETHING THAT IS MORE AND MORE BALANCED OVER TIME. BUT DO YOU FEEL IT REFLECTS THE COMMUNITY'S VISION? DOES YEAH. IT, I DO FEEL IT REFLECTS THE COMMUNITY'S VISION. UM, I'M NOT SAYING WHAT'S CURRENTLY THERE, . RIGHT. WE'VE GOT SOME AREAS OF THE CITY. WHAT'S PHYSICALLY THERE RIGHT NOW, I DON'T THINK PERFECTLY REFLECTS COMMUNITY VISION. NO. BUT THAT WOULD ALL BE GRANDFATHERED IN. BUT ALL THE 10 YEAR PLANS SHOW IT. WE'RE TRYING TO AIM SO THAT WE'LL GET MORE AND MORE BALANCED OVER TIME. MM-HMM. . YEAH. SO I THOUGHT THAT WAS GOOD. I MEAN, YOU GOT SOME OLD, TO BE HONEST, I HAVEN'T READ IT UNTIL I APPLIED FOR THIS. SO I WAS KIND OF READING THROUGH ALL THESE THINGS FOR THE FIRST TIME. IT'S KIND OF LIKE, WOW. THAT I LIKE THAT IDEA. I MEAN IT'S, THE CONCEPT HERE IS REALLY GOOD ON EACH ONE OF THE AREAS. MM-HMM. . OKAY. HOLLY, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE ARIZONA OPEN MEETING LAWS OR THE RULES AND USE OF EXECUTIVE SESSION? NO, I'M NOT. I THINK THE MAYOR ALLUDED BEFORE ABOUT OPEN MEETING WAS YEAH. TALKING TO OTHERS OUTSIDE THE MEETING. THERE'S REALLY, SO YEAH. NO, I, I'M NOT FAMILIAR. YOU'D BE TAUGHT THAT. I MEAN, IT'S FINE, BUT SOME PEOPLE ARE USED TO IT. SOME PEOPLE ARE VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE IN IT. SOME PEOPLE SURE. YOU WOULDN'T EXPECT TO HAVE TO BE UNTIL YOU WOULD TAKE THE POSITION. RIGHT. RIGHT. IT, IT DOESN'T SILENCE YOU FROM HAVING, SILENCE YOU FROM HAVING AN OPINION OR TALKING TO YOUR NEIGHBORS OR ANYTHING ELSE. 'CAUSE WE ARE ALWAYS CITIZENS FIRST. RIGHT. AND THEN WE HAVE A POSITION. RIGHT. SO THAT ENABLES YOU TO SERVE. SOMETIMES IT MIGHT FEEL LIKE THERE'S A CONFLICT OF INTEREST. OKAY. BUT IF THERE ISN'T A REAL PECUNIARY CONFLICT OF INTEREST, THERE MAY BE A PERCEIVED, SO LIKE I KNOW YOU'VE BEEN ACTIVE WITH THE HOAS AND LOWERING THE SPEED LIMIT ON MORGAN. I'M ON THE OTHER SIDE OF MORGAN. AND, UM, WHAT OPEN MEETING LAW REALLY REFERS TO IS HOW DO YOU CONDUCT YOURSELF AS A COMMISSIONER WITH OTHER COMMISSIONERS WHEN YOU'RE NOT ON THE DIOCESE? OKAY. IT MEANS YOU CAN MEET COFFEE, MEET HOLLY FOR COFFEE, BUT UM, YOU CAN'T MEET WITH TWO OTHER COMMISSIONERS LIKE THREE. THAT'S THE MAGIC NUMBER. NOT, NOT TO ACHIEVE. OH, OKAY. OR IT WILL BE PERCEIVED AS COLLUSION. A VIOLATION POTENTIALLY. YEAH. WELL, ALL KINDS OF THINGS. IT COULD BE. BUT UM, IT'S JUST THAT, UH, YOU'RE NOT PERMITTED TO DO THAT. YEAH. SO THAT YOU'RE NEVER CONDUCTING PUBLIC BUSINESS IN PRIVATE. OH, OKAY. SO LIKE WHAT YOU ALLUDED TO BEFORE IN THE, THE FIRST COMMENT WHEN YOU SAID, WELL, I'LL TALK TO OTHER PEOPLE, YOU CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE NOW YOU'RE SHARING YOUR OPINION WITH THREE OTHER COMMISSIONERS. SURE. THEY KNOW HOW YOU'RE GONNA VOTE. YOU'RE NOW GONNA KNOW HOW THEY'RE GONNA VOTE. AND THAT ALL HAS TO BE CONDUCTED IN FRONT OF PUBLIC BODY, THE PUBLIC, THE PEOPLE. AND SOME PLACES IN OTHER STATES, MAYBE NOT ARIZONA WOULD ALLOW THAT. ARIZONA DOES NOT. SO, BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT TO SEE YOU HAVING DIALOGUE. BUT LIKE KATHY SAID, IF YOU WANNA TALK TO YOUR NEIGHBORS, YOU COULD TALK TO 25 OF YOUR NEIGHBORS. RIGHT. SAY, I THIS IS HOW I BELIEVE. AS LONG AS THEY'RE NOT COMMISSIONERS. RIGHT. GOT IT. ABOUT 20 YEARS AGO, TWO, TWO OR THREE COUNCIL MEMBERS WERE, UH, CITED FOR VIOLATING THE OPEN MEETING LAW BECAUSE THEY WERE SEEN AT A RESTAURANT OVER WHAT'S NOW RED'S. RASCALS. AND IT WAS MESSY. YEAH, I BET IT WAS, IT WAS MOST UNFORTUNATE. IT ONLY TWO. THERE WERE THREE. WELL, THERE WERE THREE, BUT THREE IS OKAY, BUT NOT FOUR RIGHT THREE'S. OKAY. NO. ARE YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU'RE ABLE TO GATHER WITH THREE OR YEAH. 'CAUSE WE HAVE SEVEN. IT'S NOT THE MAJORITY TOTAL THREE THAT, NOT THREE OTHER MAJORITY. THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY. HOLD OF THREE. ALRIGHT. [00:20:01] NOW, WELL, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS THREE, BUT IT WAS STILL SEEN AS A CONFLICT AND THEY, THEY BROUGHT THE CASE AGAINST THE CITY. I MIGHT BE WRONG. I, AND I MIGHT HAVE JUST MISSTATED THAT TO YOU. I WOULD NEVER THINK OF MEETING WITH TWO OTHER. I WOULD, I DON'T THINK EITHER OUTSIDE. I MEAN, FOR THE SAID IT'S NOT THE MAJORITY. SO I'LL GIVE YOU ANOTHER BETTER EXAMPLE. A MORE RECENT EXAMPLE WAS THE FIRE DISTRICT. MM-HMM. THEY WERE HAVING, THERE'S FIVE PEOPLE ON THE BOARD. SO YOU CAN'T HAVE TWO TOTAL OF THREE PEOPLE TALKING. FOUR, THREE PEOPLE. AND THEY WERE ACTUALLY HAVING FOUR PEOPLE MEET AT SOMEONE'S HOUSE THE NIGHT BEFORE THE BOARD MEETINGS. MM-HMM. . THIS IS GOING BACK 12 FOUR, ACTUALLY 16 YEARS AGO. OKAY. LONG TIME TIME. SO YOU KNOW THE CASE I'M TALKING ABOUT, I THINK RIGHT. , THE RACY, THE RACY CASE. THAT TOO PART OF THE SAME THING. PUBLIC FUNDS FOR FILM. RIGHT? THE SAME PEOPLE? NO, ACTUALLY WHAT IT WAS AFTER THAT BOARD, IT WAS A DIFFERENT DIFFERENT BOARD DUDE. SO, BUT THEY WERE HAVING MEETINGS, THEY WERE ACTUALLY COLLUDING. THEY REALLY WERE COLLUDING TO NOT HAVE A FIREHOUSE AND WE'RE GOING TO SPEND THESE MONIES DOWN AND, AND THEY GOT CAUGHT BECAUSE SOMEBODY GOT WIND OF IT AND THEY ACTUALLY FILMED THEM AND IT WENT TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL. WOW. IT IS REALLY DICEY. SO YOU JUST DON'T DO IT. SURE. YOU KNOW, ANYWAY. THAT MAKES SENSE. OH, IT REALLY DOES MAKE SENSE. SO, UH, WHO'S UP FOR NUMBERS, KATHY? YES. NUMBER SEVEN. THANK YOU. WELL, THERE'S A TOUGH ONE. IS THERE ANYTHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD ABOUT YOUR INTEREST IN SERVING ON THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION? I LIKE THAT. I JUST MET MY WIFE AND I DECIDED WHEN WE BOUGHT PROPERTY HERE EIGHT YEARS AGO AND THEN RETIRED AND DECIDED TO STAY HERE. IT'S LIKE, WELL, WE'RE GONNA BE HERE FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES. SO IT'S, LET'S, LET'S TRY TO SEE IF WE CAN GET A LITTLE MORE INGRAINED INTO THE COMMUNITY. MM-HMM. . UM, SHE VOLUNTEERS. AND WHERE DOES SHE VOLUNTEER? AUDUBON SOCIETY. UM, UH, HUMMINGBIRD OR BIRD COUNTS AND BUTTERFLY. WE JUST FINISHED A BUTTERFLY COUNT. OKAY. UM, HAS SOME BUTTERFLY ACTIVITIES ACTUALLY AT BAY SPRINGS THIS MORNING. UM, SO, UM, WE'RE BOTH RETIRED AND TRYING TO STAY EXTREMELY ACTIVE WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, SO. EXCELLENT. WELL, IF THIS DOESN'T GO IN YOUR DIRECTION, AND I DON'T KNOW ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, BUT IF IT DOESN'T, THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER ORGANIZATIONS LOOK TO WHEELS ON WHEELS. UH, VERDE VALLEY CAREGIVERS NEEDS DRIVERS. WHEELS ON WHEELS, NEEDS DRIVERS, DESPERATELY NEEDS DRIVERS, FOOD BANK, THE FOOD. THAT'S MY NEXT ONE. FOOD BANK, A HUMANE SOCIETY. THERE ARE SO MANY PLACES THAT YOU COULD GIVE UP YOURSELF. WE VOLUNTEER AT THE HUMANE SOCIETY RIGHT NOW TOO. YEAH, NO, IT IS JUST, UH, YOU KNOW, GIVE AWAY. YOU CAN. YEAH. YOU KNOW, UH, IT, IT IS VERY REWARDING. SO, MAY I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FROM HIS, UM, HIS APPLICATION? FROM HIS APPLICATION? IF I COULD, UM, PLEASE, COULD YOU, UH, JUST VERY BRIEFLY DESCRIBE THE, UM, COURSE CONTENT ON YOUR SUSTAINABILITY COLLEGE CLASSES? UM, AND ARE YOU STILL DOING THAT? AM I DOING THAT? NO, NOT REALLY. ARE YOU STILL TEACHING? OKAY. WELL, I AM DOING SOME TEACHING, UM, BUT IT'S TYPICALLY NO LONGER AT THE UNIVERSITY. SO I'LL GO DOWN, UM, TO TAIWAN SEMICONDUCTORS PLANT NORTH PHOENIX, AND I'LL TEACH A SEMICONDUCTOR PROCESS OVERVIEW CLASS, WHICH IN GENERAL THAT TAKES ENGINEERS WHO UNDERSTAND THEIR DISCIPLINE YEAH. AND TEACHING THEM HOW A SEMICONDUCTOR PROCESS WORKS. HMM. SO IT'S A THREE, FOUR HOUR CLASS, BUT THERE ARE NUGGETS OF THAT WITHIN, UH, WHICH COVERS QUITE A BIT OF SUSTAINABILITY. 'CAUSE THE SEMICONDUCTOR PROCESS IS, IS VERY MESSY. UH, YOU'RE DEALING WITH AN AVERAGE ONE. THE LARGE PLANT THERE IN TSMC, THEY'LL GO THROUGH $500 MILLION OF CHEMICALS A YEAR JUST TO RUN THAT PLANT. AND THEN YOU HAVE TO FIGURE HOW TO PROCESS THOSE CLEANLY. WATER. THEY RECYCLE 100% OF THE WATER. OH. THEY ARE SAME FOR THE INTEL PLANTS. THEY HAVE A LITERALLY $1 BILLION WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT, WHICH HAS MEMBRANE, MEMBRANE BIOREACTORS. THEY HAD ALL THE SOLVENTS UP FRONT AND EVERYTHING ELSE LIKE THAT. AND GET TO THE POINT WHERE BY THE TIME THE WATER GOES ALL THE WAY THROUGH, IT'S CLEANER THAN THIS. IT'S A PLUS WATER, DRINKABLE WATER. SO IT JUST GOES STRAIGHT BACK INTO THE PLANT. THAT'S COOL. SO THE TSMC PLANT, I THINK THEY'RE UP TO 20 MILLION GALLONS OF WATER A DAY. WOW. SO THE CITY COULDN'T SUPPLY THAT. AND THEN THE INTEL PLANT, THEY HAVE THEIR FIRST 10 MILLION GALLONS PER DAY PLANT, AND THEY'RE BUILDING TWO MORE FABS. SO THEY'RE HAVING TO BUILD ANOTHER PLANT. [00:25:01] SO THAT'S, THAT'S CAP WATER CENTRAL ARIZONA PROJECT WATER. IT IS TECHNICALLY, IT'S WELL DWELL WATER. THEY'RE, THEY'RE DRILLING THEIR OWN WELLS. YEAH. IT'S A, AND LITERALLY ON THE INTEL PLANT. WOW. ON THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF THEIR PROPERTY UNTIL DONATED ABOUT 20 ACRES. AND THAT'S WHERE THE, THE, THE WELLS ARE EVERYTHING ELSE LIKE THAT. BUT IT'S RECIRCULATED STRAIGHT BACK INTO THE PLANT WHEN YOU ORDER THE OFFICE BUILDING WATER IS NOT OH, BUT THE, THE PHYSICAL INTERESTING, UH, FACTORY PLANT 'CAUSE IT, SO YOU'RE DOING SOME CONSULTING THERE AGAIN? I DO SOME TEACHING. UM, THE MANY OF THE CHEMICAL OPERATIONS TO GET THE BAD CHEMICALS LIKE FLOORING OUT OF THE WATER. ALL, UM, I WAS HEAVILY INVOLVED IN MM-HMM. FLOORING. FLOORING IS, UM, HAS A GLOBAL WARMING POTENTIAL OF 16,800 CO2 MOLECULES. SO CO FLOORING'S REALLY BAD. YEAH. IS THIS A NEW CHIP PLANT THEY'RE BUILDING NOW? THAT THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? YEAH. THERE'S TWO NEW CITY GOING TSMC IS TWO TWO FS THERE. IT'S 1200 ACRES. YEAH, RIGHT. BUT IS IT ALL RUNNING YET? NO. NO. OH, NO. YOU SEE IT FROM THE WELL, THAT'S THE WAY HE'S TALKING ABOUT IT. I THOUGHT HE WOULD, HE WAS SAYING IT'S DOING, GOING OPERATIONALLY IS A GALLONS OF WATER NOW. UM, THE INTEL PLANT HAS, UH, SIX, THERE'S SIX PADS ON THAT ONE, FOUR UP AND OPERATIONAL. IT'S INTEL AND CHANDLER. INTELS IN CHANDLER. RIGHT. YEAH. AMAZING. THAT'S, SO THAT, TO MY QUESTION, OH, SUSTAINABILITY. YEAH. WHAT JUST BULLET POINTS ON WHAT, WHAT POINTS OF SUSTAINABILITY WERE YOU TEACHING AT THESE UNIVERSITIES? DIFFERENT MEANS OF EXHAUST MITIGATION. DIFFERENT WAYS TO TAKE, UM, CHEMICALS THAT ARE IN AN EXHAUST AIRSTREAM AND FILTER THAT OUT BEFORE IT GOES TO THE ATMOSPHERE. AND THEN A LOT OF THE LIQUID WASTE SYSTEMS. MM-HMM. AND THINGS LIKE, UH, DIFFERENT FLOWING MOLECULES. WE WILL ACTUALLY HEAT THOSE UP TO BREAK APART THE MOLECULE AND GET IT TO ABSORB WITH WATER AND THEN GET THAT TO A LIQUID FORM. THERE'S A, I LEARNED THIS AT A CONFERENCE LAST YEAR AND BRAND NEW HYDROGEN PLANT GOING UP OUTSIDE OF WHERE IT WAS IN NORTHERN ARIZONA. IT WAS LIKE IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE. HMM. I HAVEN'T ON THAT ONE. SO THERE'S SUSTAINABILITY REALLY RELATED TO YOUR, UH, ENGINEERING BACKGROUND, RIGHT? YES. NOT IN THE WAY LAYMAN THINK OF SUSTAINABILITY. YEAH, NO. THIS IS THE TECHNICAL SIDE IS JUST NO MORE STRAWS AND THAT KIND OF STUFF. NO, THE INTERESTING THING IS, IS, UM, MY TREE HUGGER FRIEND THAT I WORKED WITH WAS PIER. UM, HE WOULD COME UP WITH REALLY INTERESTING WAYS OF RECYCLING, UH, PLASTIC GLOVES. WHEN WE GO INTO THE FACTORY, YOU HAVE TO HAVE RUBBER GLOVES. RIGHT. SO WE'VE STARTED WORKING WITH TIVA TO TAKE ALL OF OUR PLASTIC GLOVES AND PUT 'EM IN 55 GALLON BARRELS AND HERE'S FREE RUBBER FOR YOU. AND, AND THEY WOULD MELT THEM AND PUT 'EM INTO SANDALS. AND THAT'S A LOCAL COMPANY. SO THERE'S ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT BYPRODUCTS IN THE FACTORY. WE THOUGHT OF WORKED WITH ADOT TO PUT A LIME STABILIZATION LAYERS UNDERNEATH THE CONCRETE ROADS. YEAH. IT WAS A WASTE BYPRODUCT TO US. YEAH. AND THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO MINE IT. IT'S LIKE, HERE IT IS FOR FREE. YEAH. THAT'S VERY COOL. SO, SO I DIDN'T DRIVE MOST OF THOSE. MINE. I DEALT WITH THE TECHNICAL PORTION, BUT I HAD PEERS THAT THAT WAS WHAT THEY DID IS LIKE EVERY WASTE BYPRODUCT THEY COULD SEE HOW DO WE RECYCLE THAT. NICE. NICE. ALRIGHT, LET'S GO BACK ON TRACK HERE. , YOU, UM, YOU SAID THAT YOU WANTED TO PROVIDE A VOICE FOR PROPERTY OWNERS. CAN YOU EXPAND UPON THAT? WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? UM, I HAVE FLIPPED A FEW HOUSES IN SEDONA AND CURRENTLY HAVE ONE HOUSE. I'M SORRY, DID YOU SAY I FLIPPED? YEAH. BOUGHT 40-YEAR-OLD HOMES. RIGHT. REDID THE, UH, I SAW THAT. BATHROOM KITCHENS. MM-HMM. , FEW OTHER THINGS. AND THEN SELL 'EM FOR HOPEFULLY A QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS FOR THE PROFIT . RIGHT. UM, SO THAT WAS FUN ENGAGEMENT, BUT MM-HMM. AT, AT DIFFERENT TIMES. UM, SO HOW DOES THAT PROVIDE A VOICE FOR THE PROPERTY OWNERS? OH, IN YOUR ROLE AS A COMMISSIONER? IT'S JUST KIND OF JUST A STEWARD FOR THE PROPERTY OWNERS. MAKE SURE DECISIONS ARE MADE, NOT JUST FOR TOURISM, NOT JUST FOR, UM, THE ABILITY TO GET AROUND, BUT, BUT ALSO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T NEGATIVELY IMPACT PROPERTY OWNERS VALUES. AND, UM, YOU SAID, I DON'T HAVE THE APPLICATION PAGE. DO YOU HAVE, DO YOU HAVE HIS APPLICATION HOME? YES. WOULD YOU LIKE IT? UM, YOU, YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THE COMMITTEE PLAN AND I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND. SORRY, I WASN'T CLEAR. THAT'S ALL RIGHT. I, I'M OFTEN NOT CLEAR AS WELL. [00:30:03] WHILE YOU'RE DOING THAT, I'D LIKE TO FOLLOW UP ON THE QUESTION. SURE. SO WHEN YOU SAY YOU DON'T WANNA HARM PROPERTY OWNERS, DO YOU THINK THAT PUTTING A DUPLEX OR A TRIPLEX AND RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD NEXT TO A SINGLE FAMILY HOME IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD HARM PROPERTY OWNERS? Y YOU GOTTA COMPARE THAT TO A SHORT TERM AIRBNB. SO IN ONE OF OUR 15, 16% OF THE HOMES ARE AIRBNB. 17, 17% ARE AIRBNB. SO COMPARED, UH, A DUPLEX OF LOT OF, LOTS OF PEOPLE, AS LONG AS YOU PROVIDE FOR PARKING FOR ALL THOSE PEOPLE. EVERYTHING ELSE LIKE THAT, NO, I DON'T THINK THAT HARMS, UM, AS COMPARED TO A, A NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE 50% OR SOMETHING ARE ALL AIRBNBS. SO I COMPARED TO JUST PROPERTY OWNERS AND EVERYBODY LIVES IN THE HOUSE, THAT WOULD BE BEST. BUT THAT'S NOT REALISTIC. THANK YOU FOR CLARIFICATION. EXCUSE ME. FOR HAVING MIXED UP YOUR BACKGROUND WITH ANOTHER CANDIDATE. OH, OKAY. WHEN I SAID I SAID SOMETHING ABOUT OHVS AND BROKEN ARROW, BUT I, I DID WANT TO, UM, ASK, WE HAVE A PE ON THE COMMISSION NOW. HOW, HOW WOULD YOU ADD TO, OR WHAT OTHER SKILLS MIGHT YOU BRING TO THE COMMISSION, UH, OTHER THAN YOUR ENGINEERING BACKGROUND? SO WE COULD SEE YOU AS NOT JUST ONE DIMENSIONAL, THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT YOU FEEL. SO I'VE HAD TO WORK WITH DIFFERENT MUNICIPALITIES AND TYPICALLY OUR FABS ARE SO BIG. I'M WORKING WITH THE CITY, THE STATE, THE COUNTRY. UM, A LOT OF TIMES FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS LIKE CHINESE OR ISRAELI OR IRELAND GOVERNMENTS ON WHAT DO THEY NEED. AND THEN A LOT OF TIMES COUNTRIES STATE AND CITY REQUIREMENTS CONFLICT WITH ONE ANOTHER. . SO HAVING TO DIG INTO SOME OF THAT AND IT'S LIKE, UH, TRYING TO WORK WITH COMPROMISE WITH THE OVERSEEING BODIES. MM-HMM. . UM, MOST OF THE SEMICONDUCTOR FABS WERE GREAT BECAUSE WE HAD, UH, CITY INSPECTORS ON SITE, SO WE DIDN'T HAVE TO TAKE PLANS. MM-HMM. TO THE CITY, HAVE 'EM APPROVE. THE INSPECTOR WAS LITERALLY, WE WOULD BE PAYING THEIR SALARIES IN EFFECT. AND IN EFFECT THEY WERE THERE TO MAKE APPROVALS AND CHANGES REALLY QUICKLY. BUT, SO, UH, THE VALUE IS THAT I'M USED TO NEGOTIATING WITH MUNICIPALITIES TO MEET ALL THEIR REQUIREMENTS. YEAH. MM-HMM. , UM, AT THE SAME TIME YOU WERE A PROJECT MANAGER, RIGHT? WHAT'S THAT? YOU WERE PROJECT MANAGERS? HE DID AT, AT DIFFERENT TIMES I FELL IN DIFFERENT ROLES, BUT A LOT OF TIMES, YEAH. I WAS IN CHARGE OF THE, UM, THE LARGE AMOUNT OF PURSE STRINGS. I WOULD HAVE A FINANCE BUDDY WITH ME, BUT SOME OF THESE FACTORIES ARE EXPENSIVE. YEAH, I BET. SO, HOLDING ANY FOLLOW UP? ANY OTHER FOLLOW UP? KATHY, DID YOU HAVE YOUR FOLLOW QUESTIONS? NO, THANK YOU. NOTHING ELSE. OKAY. EXCELLENT. ALRIGHT. DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOR US? YEAH. UH, BESIDES THE, UH, I SAW IN MEETINGS OR FIRST AND THIRD TUESDAY AT FOUR 30, UH, HOW MUCH TIME IS EXPECTED OUTSIDE OF THAT WINDOW? AH, GOOD QUESTION. , DAYS, DAYS, DAYS. IT CAN SOMETIMES TAKE THE BETTER PART OF A DAY TO READ YOUR PACKET. OKAY. BECAUSE WE GET EVERYTHING. WE GET STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IT, THIS IS TO PREPARE YOU TO SERVE. SO IN ADVANCE STAFF ANALYZES THE PROJECT. OKAY. YEAH. FOR CONSISTENCY WITH THE CODES AND THE COMMUNITY PLAN. AND THEY PUT TOGETHER A A TO Z PACKET, UM, THROUGH THEIR EYES AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO US. OKAY. BUT THAT CAN TAKE YOU, YOU KNOW, I'D SAY AT LEAST FOUR TO SIX HOURS, DEPENDING ON THE MATTERS. AND IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN ONE AGENDA ITEM THAT REQUIRES DISCUSSION AND OR DECISION. SO THAT'S THAT PIECE. AND THEN FOR LARGE PROJECTS, WE DO A SITE VISIT, TYPICALLY THE MORNING OF, THAT'S AN HOUR, NOT A BIG DEAL. AND THEN THE MEETINGS, UM, WILL LAST FROM TWO TO FOUR HOURS. AND WE SKIP SOMETIMES BECAUSE THINGS AREN'T READY TO BRING FORWARD. OH, OKAY. YEAH. SO, UM, MOST OF US THEN PLAN OUR VACATIONS, YOU KNOW, AROUND THOSE. THAT WAS ANOTHER QUESTION I WAS GONNA ASK. SO YEAH. BUT ALL, I SHOULDN'T SAY THAT, BUT HALF OF US ARE STILL WORKING AND THE OTHER HALF ARE RETIRED. OKAY. SO IT'S, IT'S, UM, IT'S HARDER ON THOSE OF US THAT HAVE RETIRED TO PLAN VACATIONS, , BUT THAT DOES FOR THOSE THAT ARE STILL WORKING. BUT THAT'S WHAT GIVES OUR, OUR COMMISSION DEPTH BECAUSE WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN SMALL BUSINESS. RIGHT. WE HAVE AN ENGINEER, UH, [00:35:01] SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN IN POLICY AREAS. THERE'S A LOT OF BREADTH. SURE. AND I LOOK FOR BREADTH. YEAH. YOU KNOW, BUT THE, THE PREP PIECE, THE MEETING PIECE, UM, CITY COUNCIL AND IT'S GOOD JUDGMENT WILL SEND YOU TO THE PLANNING CONFERENCE ONCE A YEAR. UH, SO YOU CAN BE CURRENT WITH WHAT'S GOING ON AND THE MUNICIPALITIES. UM, THAT'S IT. UH, AS FAR AS PLANNING, UM, I HAVE FAMILY IN AUSTRALIA AND IF I GO THERE, I WANNA GO FOR THREE WEEKS AT A TIME. OF COURSE YOU WOULD. SO YEAH, OF COURSE YOU WOULD. AS LONG AS WE CAN WORK AROUND THAT. YEAH. ALRIGHT. YEAH. OH, AND I SHOULD SAY ALSO STAFF IS ALWAYS AVAILABLE TO YOU. OKAY. YOU DON'T WANT 'EM, YOU DON'T NEED TO WAIT UNTIL THE MEETING TO HAVE QUESTIONS ANSWERED. YOU CAN EASILY MEET WITH THEM OR JUST E EMAIL 'EM. OKAY. GREAT. YOU GETTING PACKETS ONLINE OR WHAT'S THAT? ARE YOU GETTING YOUR PACKETS ONLINE? SO IF HE WAS AWAY AT A PARTICULAR TIME, YOU CAN GET THE PACKET, READ THE PACKET WHILE YOU'RE AWAY. AS LONG AS YOU'RE BACK BY THE MEETING, YOU DON'T MISS TOO MANY. IF YOU MISSED A MEETING A YEAR, WE, WE'VE HAD, WE'VE HAD LIKE COUNCIL, WE'VE HAD PEOPLE ZOOM IN. UM, IT'S NOT WHAT I WOULD CHOOSE TO DO ON MY VACATION, BUT RIGHT. SHE LOOKS AT ME 'CAUSE I'VE DONE IT NUMEROUS . BUT IT'S, IT'S, IT'S AN INCREDIBLE TOOL. DURING COVID, WE MET ONLINE THE WHOLE TIME. SURE. THAT WAS NOT PERFECT, BUT YEAH. AND DEFINITELY YOU'VE GOT FAMILY THAT FAR AWAY, YOU'RE GONNA STAY AND IT'S TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU FOR COMING IN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NICE TO MEET. NICE MEETING YOU. APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. HOW ARE YOU? HOW I'M WORKING ON IT. OKAY. WE'RE RECORDING IT AGAIN. UH, YOUR NAME IS WHO? CARL JACKSON. I NEVER HEARD FOR THE RECORDER. THIS IS CARL JACKSON. YOU WERE, YOU ALREADY KNOW. I DO. APPARENTLY FIRST SUNDAY OF NOVEMBER, THEY, THEY DON'T WANNA KNOW ME, BUT THEY KNOW ME. NO, I WANT FIRST SUNDAY OF NOVEMBER. WELL, THANK YOU FOR YOUR APPLICATION AND WANTING TO BE CONSIDERED AS A CANDIDATE OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION. I'M THE CHAIR OF THE COMMISSION. YOU KNOW, THESE TWO PEOPLE I GUESS. MM-HMM. . OKAY. SO WE HAVE A SERIES OF SEVEN QUESTIONS THAT WE ASK EVERYBODY, BUT THEN OH, WOW. OKAY. WE DEPART FROM THAT . OKAY. AND TAKE A LOOK INTO THE, UH, CVU PROVIDED US WITH YOUR APPLICATION SO THAT WE CAN GET A BIGGER PICTURE OF WHO YOU ARE AND SURE. HOW YOU MIGHT WANT TO ASSERT. SURE. SO I'LL GO AHEAD WITH THE, UM, NO, I'M GONNA SKIP. LET'S HAVE YOU START. MAYOR WILL GONNA HARDEST ITS WAY DOWN. OKAY. THAT'S GOOD. I LIKE, YOU KNOW, GET BEHIND US. GET THE HARD PART BEHIND US. WHY DO YOU WANNA SERVE IN THE PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION? SO I, I WOULD SAY THE REASON I WANNA SERVE IS I AM, IT'S NOT LIKE I GET UP IN THE MORNING AND I WANT, I GO, I I GOTTA BE ON P AND Z. IT'S NOT, UH, NOT SOMETHING THAT, UH, THEY QUESTION YOU. YEAH, EXACTLY. THAT'S, SO I DO, BUT YOU KNOW, THERE ARE CERTAIN ISSUES THAT HAVE BUBBLED UP OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS, ONE BEING SHORT TERM RENTALS. UM, AND AS AN EXAMPLE, I DO THINK SHORT TERM RENTALS IN, IN SOME WAYS IS A ZONING ISSUE. UM, AND SO HA HAVE, YOU KNOW, WHAT I DO REALIZE IS THAT EVERYONE'S BUSY. CITY COUNCIL'S VERY BUSY. CITY STAFF IS VERY BUSY. UNLESS YOU HAVE SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO CHAMPION ISSUES, THINGS AREN'T GONNA GET DONE. SO IF I WANT TO MAKE AN IMPACT AND HELP SOLVE PROBLEMS, THEN I NEED TO GET MORE INVOLVED. AND IF I THINK THAT, UH, SHORT TERM RENTALS IS A ZONING ISSUE, THEN SERVING ON P AND Z IS ONE STEP. UH, I ALSO THINK THAT'S A GOOD FIT FOR ME. UM, I THINK THE TIMING IS GOOD. I THINK I, I HAVE ACTUALLY AN INTEREST IN PLANNING AND ZONING AS JUST CONCEPTUALLY. UM, IT'S A GOOD CHANCE FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BIT BETTER HOW THE CITY WORKS. I MEAN, YOU, YOU NEVER REALLY KNOW HOW THINGS WORK UNTIL YOU'RE SORT OF REALLY INVOLVED. SO I THINK FIRST AND FOREMOST IT'S SOLVING PROBLEMS AND I THINK I COULD HELP SOLVE PROBLEMS. AND I THINK TO GET INVOLVED BEING ON P AND Z WOULD BE A GOOD, A GOOD STEP. I MEAN, I'VE BEEN ON THE CITIZENS ACADEMY, I TRIED THAT. I HAVE BEEN WHAT YEAR WAS THAT? HMM? WHAT YEAR WAS THAT? CITIZENS ACADEMY? I DID IT JUST A YEAR AGO. OH, JUST ONE YEAR AGO. OKAY. I MEAN, I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT P AND Z FOR MAYBE THREE YEARS, BUT I HAVE MORE TIME NOW. UM, AND I AM MUCH, I, MY WIFE AND I, MY [00:40:01] MOTHER-IN-LAW LIVES IN CALIFORNIA. SO WE'RE BACK AND FORTH. I'M HERE A LOT MORE NOW. UM, SO IT'S SOMETHING I THINK I CAN DO. HOW'S THAT? WHAT YOU FEEL IS . HOW'S THAT TEST QUESTION? OKAY, GOOD. HOLLY, SO THE COMMISSION IS ASKED TO REVIEW DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS. OOPS. SORRY. I WILL START OVER. GO PLEASE. THE CITY IS ASKED TO REVIEW DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS FOR THINGS SUCH AS COMPLIANCE WITH THE CITY'S DESIGN REQUIREMENTS IMPACT ON THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD AND COMPLIANCE WITH ADOPTED CITY PLANS AND ORDINANCES. RIGHT. WHAT EXPERIENCE, KNOWLEDGE, OR PERSPECTIVE WOULD YOU BRING TO THE COMMISSION IN CONDUCTING THESE REVIEWS? IS, OKAY, WELL, FIRST OF ALL, LET ME SAY, I'M NOT AN ENGINEER. I'M NOT AN ARCHITECT AND I HAVE NO DEEP EXPERIENCE IN NATIVE ARIZONA PLANTS. SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WHO WANT, IS GOING TO BRING THAT PERSPECTIVE TO THE, UH, UH, PNZ COMMISSION, AND THAT'S NOT, I'M NOT YOUR PERSON FOR THAT. WHERE I DO THINK THAT I CAN ADD SOME VALUE IS SORT OF A HIGHER LEVEL PERSPECTIVE. SO FOR INSTANCE, YOU KNOW, I THINK OF PLANNING AND ZONING. ZONING IS HAVING TWO SORT OF A FRAMEWORK, RIGHT? THERE'S ZONING FOR USES AND THERE'S ZONING FOR DEVELOPMENT, AND THEN THERE'S VARIANCES AND THERE'S CUPS. AND TO ME, WHERE YOU ADD VALUE IS, I AM NOT GOING TO BE THE ONE WHO'S QUESTIONING CITY STAFF. IF THEY TELL ME THAT THIS COMPLIES WITH ALL THE CITY ZONING REQUIREMENTS, IF IT COMPLIES WITH CITY ZONING REQUIREMENTS, I MIGHT WILL INVESTIGATE IT. BUT I GUESS I WOULD WANT TO KNOW WHERE IT DOESN'T COMPLY. AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK YOU WOULD ADD VALUE. BECAUSE WHERE YOU CAN ACTUALLY MAKE CHANGE, IT SEEMS TO ME, AND I COULD BE WRONG, IS WHEN THEY DON'T, WHEN THE DEVELOPMENT ISN'T GOING TO COMPLY PERFECTLY WITH THE, WITH THE ZONING. BECAUSE OTHERWISE, IF THEY ARE COMPLETELY COMPLYING WITH ZONING, THEN THERE'S NOTHING TO TO CHALLENGE. SO IT'S REALLY THE DECISIONING AROUND THAT WHERE THEY WANT, LET'S SAY THEY WERE, IT'S A DEVELOPMENT THAT THEY WANT A VARIANCE, HEIGHT, VARIANCE, SETBACK, VARIANCE, WHATEVER. THEN THE QUESTION IS HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHETHER THAT MAKES SENSE? OBVIOUSLY WHAT ARE, WHAT'S THE COMMUNITY THINK? UM, WHY CAN'T THEY COMPLY? UM, WHAT ARE THE IMPACTS THAT THEY'RE, THAT ARE GONNA BE CAUSED BY THAT VARIANCE? AND WHAT DOES COMMUNITY PLAN AND THE CFA SAY AND WHAT BENEFITS CAN THE CITY EXTRACT BY GRANTING THAT VARIANCE? SO I THINK IT IS THAT PERSPECTIVE THAT I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A TRADE OFF THAT WHERE YOU ADD VALUE IS WHEN THEY DON'T WANT TO COMPLY. AND THEN IT BECOMES SOME SOMEWHAT OF A NEGOTIATION ON WHAT DOES THE CITY WANT, WHAT DOES THE CITY BENEFIT, UM, FOR GRANTING THAT VARIANCE. SO THAT'S THE KIND OF PERSPECTIVE I WOULD BRING. I THINK, UM, IS MORE OF A, A FRAMEWORK OF HOW TO THINK ABOUT THAT RATHER THAN THIS DOESN'T MEET A DESIGN SPECIFICATION, I WOULD NOT HAVE THE SKILL TO SAY, OKAY, LET'S REDESIGN IT THIS WAY. I, THAT WOULD NOT BE SOMETHING I WOULD BE ABLE TO DO. OKAY. I REALLY LIKED YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT, UM, BECAUSE IT REALLY DOES HELP US UNDERSTAND HOW YOU MIGHT APPROACH AND, UM, ANALYZE, UH, THE WORK OF THE COMMISSION. HOWEVER, THE COMMISSION, WHEN WE GET THE PACKET, IT HAS MET ALL OF THE CRITERIA THAT IT NEEDS TO MEET. OTHERWISE IT WOULDN'T BE BROUGHT FORWARD TO US. OKAY. I WOULD THINK THAT THEY WOULD, EVEN IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO MARRY, THAT'S, I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT . WELL, WE HAVE A FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE OF OUR OPINION HERE. WELL, LIKE, NO, NOT WEEK. OKAY. SO ITS STAFF'S STAFF WON'T BRING A, A PROJECT FORWARD UNTIL IT HAS MET ALL OF ITS, UM, ALL OF THE CRITERIA IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND IT MATCHES THE COMMUNITY PLAN. THOSE ARE THE TWO THRESHOLDS. OKAY. UM, OTHERWISE IT WON'T BRING FORWARD EXCEPT WHEN IT DOES NO, EXCEPT WHEN THE APPLICANT WANTS TO, WHAT IF A A DIFFERENT ZONE, A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION. I'M JUST SAYING THAT THAT STAFF'S JOB OKAY. IS TO REVIEW IT AND TAKE THE CODE AND TAKE COMMUNITY PLAN AND SAY, IS IT MATCHING UP AND INTERPRET? AND THAT'S, UM, AND THAT CAN BE A LENGTHY, LENGTHY PROCESS BEFORE ABSOLUTELY. A LARGE HOTEL. YEAH, SURE. COMMUNITY PARTICIPATION AND ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF. YEP. SO, UM, AND WE DON'T ALSO, WE DON'T, WE DON'T GRANT VARIANCES ANY, UM, OH, WHAT ARE THEY CALLED HERE IF YOU WANT TO VARIANCE? WELL, WE USED TO, OH, IT'S CALLED USED. [00:45:01] OH, YOU DON'T GRANT VARIANCES. THAT WENT TO THE BOARD OF VARIANCE, BUT THEN WE EXTINGUISHED THE BOARD OF VARIS AND THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR, I BELIEVE HAS THAT AUTHORITY. OH. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO GO TO THE COMMISSION. COUNCIL DOES GOT IT. ALSO, WE HAVE A HEARING OFFICER, BUT WE HAVE, WE HAVE SEEN THINGS THAT COME THROUGH THAT STRETCH THE, THE HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS. RIGHT. ODDLY ENOUGH, UM, COUNCIL WILL SOMETIMES HEAR THOSE BEFORE WE EVER GET THE PROJECT. OH, OKAY. SO IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT ENTIRELY A CLEAN PROCESS THERE. SURE. NO, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW ALL THE PRO THE PROCEDURES. YEAH. WELL, YEAH. AND WE DON'T EXPECT YOU TO, BUT I JUST THOUGHT THAT MIGHT HELP. NO, THAT HELPS. YOU SAID YOU WOULDN'T QUESTION STAFF AND THAT'S A VERY INTERESTING COMMENT TO MAKE. 'CAUSE IT, IT TELLS ME THAT YOU CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THAT YOU VALUE THE COMPETENCY, UH, OF CITY STAFF TO BE ABLE TO ANALYZE SOMETHING TO BRING IT FORWARD TO YOU FOR DISCUSSION. ABSOLUTELY. AND WE RARELY DO. RIGHT. WE RARELY DO, BUT OFTEN WHEN WE PASS, UM, AND THIS GOES TO THE THIRD THING YOU BROUGHT UP, WHICH IS WHERE ARE THE BENEFITS HMM. AS A SITTING COMMISSIONER, THE BENEFITS WE CAN, AND I WOULDN'T EVEN USE THE TERM ACTION, WE CAN PERSUADE THEY CAN EXACT YES. THAT'S THE KIND OF HOW THOSE ROLES ARE. THAT'S A GOOD WAY OF PUTTING IT. OKAY. UM, SPLIT. FAIR ENOUGH. BUT OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE A REAL KEENNESS AROUND THOSE, THOSE KINDS OF ISSUES THAT MAYBE MAKE A PROJECT BETTER BECAUSE WE HAVE ASKED FOR, AND THEY HAVE EXACTED AT A TWO PART, UM, PROCESS, BUT NOT ALL THINGS LIKE CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS, CS GO TO THEM. OKAY. SOME OF THEM IS GET APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION OR I SAY STAFF DON'T CHANGE. COME TO US. YEAH. OKAY. SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. I SEE YOU AS A GENERALIST. I SEE YOU AS A PROBLEM SOLVER. RIGHT. BUT I SEE BY YOUR RESUME, YOU'RE A BANKER, RIGHT. SO THAT'S RIGHT. THANK YOU. YEAH. MY QUESTION THEN ON NUMBER THREE IS WOULD YOU, AND YOU'RE GONNA ENJOY THIS ONE . OKAY. THEY'RE ALL GOOD. WOULD YOU BE COMFORTABLE VOTING TO APPROVE A PROJECT THAT MEETS CITY DESIGN STANDARDS AND CODES SUCH AS HEIGHT, MASSING, LIGHTING, COLOR, ET CETERA? IF YOU PERSONALLY DISLIKED THE DESIGN, I WOULD SAY THAT THE COMMISSIONER'S JOB IS TO APPROVE WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE COMPLYING WITH THE CITY CODE AND THE ATLANTA DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THE DESIGN SPECIFICATIONS AND THE COMMUNITY PARTICIPATION. AND IF THEY ARE, I DON'T REALLY CONSIDER MY PERSONAL LIKES OR DISLIKES TO BE INVOLVED IN THAT PROCESS. THAT'S NOT WHY I'M THERE. MM-HMM. , I'M THERE TO MAKE SURE THAT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT, I MEAN, I PERCEIVE MYSELF AS BEING THERE TO HELP ENSURE THAT THE PROJECT IS COMPLYING WITH THE CITY'S DESIRES AND THE CITY'S CODES AND THE CITY ZONING. NOT CARL JACKSON'S DESIGN. LIKE YEAH. LIKE FOR INSTANCE, THIS WHOLE THING, I SAW THIS ARTICLE RECENTLY ABOUT ARE THERE TOO MANY HOTELS IN SEDONA OR WHATEVER. I'M LIKE, I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT'S MY, MY JOB TO MAKE A DETERMINATION WHETHER THERE'S TOO MANY HOTELS IN SEDONA. UM, THERE'S THE ZONING AND EITHER YOU'RE COMPLYING OR NOT. AND IF IT'S WITHIN, IF IT'S ZONED THAT WAY, THEN YEAH, THEN I, I DON'T SEE WHY A HOTEL CAN'T GO THERE. AND, YOU KNOW, WE OFTEN ARE, UM, CHALLENGED IN THAT DESIGN ARENA. I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. THE, UM, DEVELOPMENT THAT WAS PROPOSED IN STEAD HILL. YEP. UM, THE COMMUNITY PLAN WAS LOOKING FOR COTTAGES AND CABINS. MM-HMM. . AND THEY CAME TO THE COMMISSION AND COUNCIL WITH, UM, WOODEN STEEL TWO STORY STRUCTURES. IT WAS A BIG DEAL. RIGHT. PEOPLE SAID, YOU, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO CABINS. RIGHT, RIGHT. AND THEN YOU INTERPRET WHAT CABIN MEANS TO YOU. SURE. AND THEN THEY INTERPRET IT IN A MODERN VERNACULAR, SOMETHING ELSE. RIGHT. TAKING, YOU KNOW, UM, CUES FROM THE ENVIRONMENT. MM-HMM. . SO WE DO GET INVOLVED IN DESIGN. I DON'T HAVE A DESIGN BACKGROUND EITHER, BUT OKAY. IT'S, IT'S IN FRONT OF US. OKAY. YEAH. WELL, I'M CERTAINLY, UH, UP FOR LEARNING, BUT I AM NOT GONNA SAY I'M A, I HAVE A SKILL I DON'T HAVE. RIGHT, RIGHT. WELL, IT'S NOT REALLY ABOUT, I WOULD SAY CABINS VERSUS STEEL AND GLASS IS, I MEAN, THERE'RE OBVIOUS DIFFERENCES. RIGHT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE MM-HMM. , IT'S NOT EVEN NUANCES, OBVIOUS DIFFERENCES THAT YOU COULD, YOU CAN SEE, YOU KNOW, THE TIE FRESH AND NATURAL. MM-HMM. , WE HAD AN ARCHITECT ON THE COMMISSION WHEN THAT CAME FORWARD AND HE SAID, MOVE IT, PUT IT ON A DIAGONAL [00:50:01] AND IT WILL HAVE MUCH MORE ARCHITECTURAL INTEREST TO YOUR CUSTOMERS AND TO PEOPLE DRAWING COMING BY. BUT HE COULD SEE THAT SURE. I DIDN'T SEE THAT, BUT IT WORKED THERE. YEAH. I MEAN, COTTAGES VERSUS STEEL. I, I GUESS I WOULD GO BACK TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND SAY WHAT DOES IT SAY WITH THE CFA AND THAT ONE, BUT YEAH. OKAY. YEAH, WE A LOT OF DIFFERENT DOCUMENTS, YOU KNOW. RIGHT. WELL I KNOW THE C FFA, I DON'T, I GUESS THE, ACTUALLY IT'S A QUESTION MAYBE I SHOULDN'T ASK A QUESTION I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO. BUT IN MY MIND, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE IS AN OR IS A, IT'S AN ORDINANCE. IT'S A, IT IS, IT'S A CODE. THE C FFA, A COMMUNITY FOCUS AREA SEEMS TO ME TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS MORE ASPIRATIONAL IS WHAT YOU WANT IT TO BE'S. SO IF I HAD TO BALANCE THE TWO, I'D SAY, WELL, ONE IS THE ORDINANCE, THAT'S THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND THE OTHER ONE'S AN ASPIRATION. AND I WOULD USE THE CFO TO HELP INFORM, LIKE IF I HAD TO TRADE OFF OR WHATEVER THE, WHATEVER THE WORD YOU WANTED. I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CITY WANTS THIS AREA TO BE. MM-HMM. , THAT'S THE CFA, THAT'S THE ASPIRATIONAL. BUT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE IS WHAT IT CAN AND CANNOT BE. AND SO IF IT SAID IT COULD BE STEEL AND WHATEVER, IT WOULD BE HARD FOR ME TO SAY, WELL, I WANT IT TO BE A COTTAGE IF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE DIDN'T SAY IT HAD TO BE A COTTAGE MM-HMM. . SO I WOULD BE THAT, I GUESS THAT THAT WOULD BE MY VIEW. UM, BUT YOU KNOW, I'M NOT OUT TO, UM, EXCEPT FOR SHORT TERM RENTALS, WHICH I'M NOT A FAN OF. , I AM NOT OUT TO, UM, WELL, YOU FOUND GOOD COMPANY. YEAH. I I'M NOT OUT TO, I'M NOT OUT TO PUT MY THUMB ON ANY PROJECT AND TRY TO, UH, ALTER THE OUTCOME. YOU WERE ABSOLUTELY A HUNDRED PERCENT RIGHT IN EVERYTHING THAT YOU SAID, BUT THIS WAS HAPPENED TO BE AN INSTANCE WHERE THE CFA WAS TIED TO THE, IT WAS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. OKAY. BUT YOU WOULDN'T KNOW THAT. OKAY. YEAH, NO, I MEAN, THERE'S SOME, SOMETIMES I READ THESE THINGS AND I'M LIKE, I TRY TO GO THROUGH A P AND Z AND I TRY TO READ THE, THE PACKAGE, BUT THIS, OH, THAT'S, UNLESS YOU'RE ACTUALLY IN IT, IT'S SO HARD TO, YOU KNOW, TO GET, HAVE YOU ATTENDED OR WATCHED A MEETING? I HAVE. I HAVE. YES. I'VE BEEN YOU FAMILIAR MEETING? I'VE, I'VE BEEN IN PERSON THERE A FEW TIMES. UM, IT IS INTERESTING. SO YEAH. AND KATHY RUNS A GREAT MEETING. YEAH. THE ONE I WAS AT, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS VERY INTERESTING WAS, THIS WAS PROBABLY A YEAR OR SO AGO. IT WAS THE, UM, IT WAS OFF. OH, WHERE IT KEEPS IT ON A BEAUTIFUL BREWER. WAS THAT BREWER? YEAH. MM-HMM. . MM-HMM. WHERE THERE WAS THE CHURCH THAT WAS HAVING A SCHOOL AND HAD A CUP AND THAT WAS A CONDITIONAL USE. UHHUH . UM, AND I HEARD THE, A LOT OF THE RESIDENTS SPEAK AND THEY WERE SAYING HOW NOISY IT WAS DURING THE DAY. UM, SO THAT WAS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF, YOU KNOW, A CHURCH BEING USED AND I KNOW THAT. AND IT SEEMS LIKE THE SCHOOL DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY TO REALLY MOVE. AND SO THEY WERE PROLONGING, I DON'T KNOW WHAT ENDED UP HAPPENING WITH THAT. THEY'RE BREAKING GROUND NEXT MONTH. ACTUALLY. THE SCHOOL, ARE THEY RIGHT, RIGHT UP HERE. OKAY. I'M GOING THROUGH. OH, IS THAT WHAT THAT IS ALL ABOUT? OH, I'M GOING UP TO THE, UH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT, WHAT IS THAT GONNA BE THEIR ELEMENTARY THEN? YEAH. AND THAT'S, I'M GOING TO GROUNDBREAKING COOL. TO GO TO. OH, THAT'S RUNNING SCHOOL. BUT I MEAN, IF THERE WAS AN EXAMPLE WHERE I COULD SEE THERE'S A CUP, RIGHT? IT'S NOT EVEN ZONED FOR SCHOOL. YEAH. IT'S A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. CAN'T GO ON FOREVER. AND I FEEL BAD FOR THE SCHOOL, BUT AT SOME POINT YOU DO SAY, WELL, IF THE RESIDENTS AND PARTICIPATION IS THAT IT'S REALLY CAUSING A LOT OF NOISE, THEN THAT WOULD BE PROBABLY SOMETHING THAT I WOULD LEAN TOWARDS. YEAH. YOU KNOW? SURE. AND SCHOOLS AND UH, CHURCHES ARE ALL CONDITIONAL USES IN NEIGHBORHOODS. OH, ARE THEY? OKAY. SO YOU JUST HAVE TO MEET THE CRITERIA. KIDS ARE GONNA MAKE NOISE. RIGHT. SO I THINK ONE, THEY, ONE ADJACENT MEMBER WAS NOT FOND OF CHILDREN PLAYING. RIGHT. RIGHT. YEAH. RIGHT. THAT NOISE. YEAH. RIGHT. WELL, I GUESS THE QUESTION IS WHAT WAS THE EXPECTATION? WHAT, WHAT WAS THE ZONING? SO YOU'RE SAYING EVERYTHING A SCHOOL OR IT'S CONDITIONAL NO MATTER WHAT. YEAH. SO ANY, THAT'S WHY YOU SEE SO MANY. SO ANY RESIDENTS, THE NEIGHBORHOOD I SEE. SO ANY NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAD A SUDDENLY A SCHOOL THAT THERE WAS AN EXPECTATION THAT THERE COULD BE A SCHOOL THERE. YES. I SEE. OKAY. WELL I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. YEAH. MM-HMM. . SO IF THERE'S AN EXPECTATION THAT THERE COULD BE A SCHOOL THERE THAT'S DIFFERENT TO ME THAN IF THERE WASN'T, IF THERE WAS AN EXPECTATION IT WOULD ONLY BE A CHURCH. RIGHT. AND THEY WANTED TO CHANGE IT TO A SCHOOL. SO THAT'S, THAT'S A DIFFERENT, THAT'S INFORMATION. ALRIGHT. SORRY. NO, THAT'S FINE. DIGRESS. WHAT DO YOU SEE AS IMPORTANT PLANNING ISSUES FACING THE CITY OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS AND WHY ARE THEY IMPORTANT? WELL, YOU KNOW, I, MY MY, MY BIG THING IS SEARCH AND RENTALS. I, I THINK SEARCH AND RENTALS ARE, ARE A BIG ISSUE FOR THE CITY. UM, I THINK THE CITY, I APPLAUD THE CITY FOR, YOU KNOW, THEIR 17% CAP AND TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE A CAP. DON'T HAVE A CAP. WELL, NO, TRYING TO GET THE CAP SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT IDEA THOUGH. MY PERCENT WOULD BE BETTER. I GUESS THAT'S, THAT'S MY POINT WAS, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO CONVINCE STATE LEGISLATURE, WHOEVER YOU'RE TRYING TO CONVINCE AND LOBBY [00:55:01] SOMETHING THAT'S NOT WITHIN THE CITY'S CONTROL. HOWEVER, THERE ARE SOME ZONING THINGS THAT ARE WITHIN THE CITY'S CONTROL. AND I DO THINK SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL ZONING AND RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY USE IS A, IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK SHORT-TERM RENTALS ARE, LOOK, THE COMMUNITY PLAN SAYS THAT SHORT-TERM RENTALS ARE DESTROYING THE FABRIC OF THE COMMUNITY. I MIGHT NOT SAY THAT EXACTLY. AND ONE OF THE REASONS I THINK THEY ARE IS BECAUSE THE ZONING REQUIRES THAT THEY BE RENTED BY SINGLE FAMILIES AND THEY'RE NOT BEING RENTED BY SINGLE FAMILIES. THEY'RE VIOLATING THE ZONING. TODAY I'VE LOOKED AT THE ARIZONA REVISED STATUTES AND THE STATUTES SAY THAT ZONING, IT CARVES OUT ZONING IS SOMETHING THE CITY CAN ENFORCE AS LONG AS IT'S DONE EQUALLY. IN OTHER WORDS, SHORT TERM, LONG TERM, NOT SAYING THERE AREN'T ENFORCEMENT ISSUES, BUT OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS I WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED IN SEEING WHETHER THE COULD ADVANCE, MAKE SOME HEADWAY OR SHORT TERM RENTALS USING THINGS THAT ARE UNDER ITS OWN CONTROL, WHICH IS ZONING. SO THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING I WOULD, I WOULD THINK WOULD BE IMPORTANT. UM, CARL, WE HAD TO RESCIND OUR OWN ORDINANCE. WE HAD TO, UH, RESCIND THE ORDINANCE ON ADUS, UM, WHEN THE STATE CAME OUT WITH THAT NEW LEGISLATION. OKAY. SO WHEREAS WE HAD ON THE BOOKS NO RENTALS UNDER 30 DAYS. RIGHT. SURE. 1350 JUST WENT. YEAH. SO IT, AND MOREOVER IT'S NOT COMMISSIONS BUSINESS. UM, UM, BUT UH, OKAY. SO WE DO, WE DON'T GET INTO THE NEIGHBORHOODS AT ALL. OKAY. SO HERE'S MY QUESTION THEN, EXCEPT WHEN THERE'S A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, IS THE DEFINITION OF FAMILY AND, AND THE USE RESIDENT, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL USE IS A SINGLE FAMILY WHO DECIDES WHOSE PURVIEW IS THAT THE DEFINITION? WELL, THE DEFINITION OF FAMILY IS ONE. AND I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE, THERE IS, THERE IS A DEFINITION IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, BUT, UM, ALL, ALL OF THE LAND IN THE COMMUNITY HAS A ZONING CLASSIFICATION. YOURS MIGHT BE RS 18 OR 36, I DON'T KNOW WHICH. BUT THE RESIDENTIAL USE IS FOR OCCUPANCY BY A SINGLE FAMILY. YES. AND SO I GUESS THE QUESTION IS WHO DECIDES? I, I MEAN, KURT HAS ALREADY SAID THAT THE FAMILY DEFINITION NEEDS TO BE UPDATED. I AGREE WITH HIM AND I HAVE THOUGHTS ON THAT. THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE SAYS THAT A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE HAS TO BE OCCUPIED BY A SINGLE FAMILY AND RENTAL HOST, OR NOT RENTING TO SINGLE FAMILIES. WHOSE JOB IS IT TO DECIDE OR TO ADVOCATE FOR ENSURING THAT THEY ARE RENTED TO SINGLE FAMILIES? MM-HMM. , I CAN SEE THAT YOU'RE PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS TOPIC. YEAH, NO, I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT IT. I'M TOO, BUT ALSO I THINK OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD. BUT I DO SAY TO MYSELF, UH, UH, IT'S SOMETHING WITHIN THE CITY'S CONTROL. YEAH. WELL NO, NOT THE LEGISLATURE. WE GET THIS LITTLE BIT OF CONTROL. NO, THE LEGISLATURE, AND I'VE READ THE REVISED STATUTES OR THE, THE LEGISLATURE PROVIDES A CARVE OUT FOR ZONING. YOU CITIES CAN ENFORCE ZONING AS LONG AS IT IS DONE EQUALLY AMONG ALL PROPERTY TYPES. SO THE CITY COULDN'T CARVE OUT AND ENFORCE SINGLE FAMILY FOR SHORT-TERM RENTALS ONLY. BUT THEY COULD DO IT AS LONG AS IT WAS DONE EQUALLY LONG-TERM RENTALS, SHORT-TERM RENTALS, THEY COULD DO IT. THAT'S MY OPINION. I'M NOT ON THE COMMISSION. RIGHT. UM, BUT THAT'D BE SOMETHING I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING DISCUSSED. AND JUST AN FYI, WE DO SEE REVISIONS TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. TYPICALLY THE MOST COME IN THE NEXT 18 MONTHS TO TWO YEARS AFTER THE UPDATE TO THE COMMUNITY PLAN BECAUSE OUT OF THAT PROCESS YEP. NEW FRESH IDEAS WANT TO BE IMPLEMENTED. SURE. AND THEN WE WILL GET SMALLER REVISIONS. SO LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, UH, BECAUSE STAFF WILL KEEP A LIST GOING. OKAY. AND THEY'LL SAY, WE GOTTA BRING THAT BACK. WE GOTTA BRING THAT, THAT BACK. OKAY. SO, UM, IT'S PROBABLY REPRESENTS 15% OF, OF OUR WORK. OKAY. AND THE OTHER THING, OBVIOUSLY THE CULTURAL PARK, THAT'S A BIGGIE I'M SURE HAS TO GET INVOLVED WITH THAT. UM, YOU WILL BE PROBABLY INVOLVED WITH THAT, RIGHT? YEAH. WHAT'S THAT? CULTURAL PARK? YES, I WOULD HOPE SO. YEAH, I WOULD HOPE SO. YEAH. WELL THERE'S A CONSULTANT THAT'S BEEN HIRED YEAH. TO LEAD THE PROCESS. FIGURE THAT OUT. OKAY. DOES THIS, UH, ADOPTED COMMUNITY PLAN REFLECT CURRENT COMMUNITY VISION AND VALUES? UH, PLEASE GIVE EXAMPLES OF REASONS OF YOUR ANSWER. DOES THE COMMUNITY PLAN MEET THE COMMUNITY VALUES, REFLECT THE COMMUNITY VALUES? I MEAN, BISHOP, I THINK IT DOES. I MEAN, I'M NOT GONNA SAY I'VE READ EVERY PAGE OF THE COMMUNITY PLAN, BUT I KNOW SHORT TERM RENTALS IS ON THERE. I KNOW OPEN SPACES IS ON THERE. I KNOW MORE WALKABILITY IS ON THERE. I KNOW CONNECTED TRANSPORTATION IS ON THERE. UM, MORE GREEN. [01:00:01] UM, I DON'T WHAT GREEN IS THE RIGHT WORD, BUT MORE NATIVE AREAS, ENVIRONMENT, YOU KNOW, NATURAL AREAS THERE. UM, SO I WOULD SAY IT DOES REFLECT THE VALUES OF THE COMMUNITY FROM A CURSORY READING. I HAVEN'T READ THE THING PAGE BY PAGE THOUGH. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH ARIZONA'S OPEN MEETING LAWS OR THE RULES AND USE OF USE OF EXECUTIVE SESSION? IF YES, PLEASE BRIEFLY DESCRIBE YOUR UNDERSTANDING. UH, I'M NOT AN EXPERT IN OPEN MEETING LAWS, SO, UM, BUT GENERALLY I KNOW LIKE ON CITY COUNCIL, IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN IF YOU HAVE THREE OR MORE COUNSELORS TOGETHER, THAT'S BASICALLY YOU'VE CONVENED A MEETING. UM, SO THE ABILITY FOR, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW, AND THIS IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN KNOWING ON THE COMMISSION IF THIS, IT IS THE SAME. IT IS, IT IS. SO REALLY LIKE A GROUP, A SUBGROUP OF COMMISSIONERS GETTING TOGETHER IN A LITTLE POWWOW TO TALK ABOUT AN ISSUE WOULD PROBABLY VIOLATE, NOT PROBABLY WOULD VIOLATE OPEN MEETING LAWS IT WOULD. YES. THAT'S ABOUT AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND OPEN MEETING LAWS IN TERMS OF, UM, YOU GOT IT. EXECUTIVE SESSION. YOU GOT IT. GOT. I WOULD SAY EXECUTIVE SESSION IS SOMETHING WHERE IT'S A VERY SENSITIVE TOPIC. A LEGAL MATTER CITY'S GETTING SUED. THE CITY IS SUING SOMEONE AN EMPLOYMENT ISSUE. UH, AND SO YOU, THAT IS SOMETHING YOU WANT TO DO BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND NOT IN A PUBLIC FORUM BECAUSE OF THE SENSITIVITY AROUND IT. I DO KNOW THERE'S CERTAIN NOTICE PERIODS FOR THAT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE. UM, BEFORE YOU CAN HAVE A CALL EXECUTIVE SESSION. SO THAT'S ABOUT AS FAR AS I KNOW. THAT'S PRETTY GOOD. THAT'S IT. THAT'S PRETTY GOOD. YOU NAILED IT. I SAY SO , HOLLY, HOW MANY QUESTIONS ARE WE ON? THAT'S JUST THE LAST ONE. OKAY. YOU DON'T, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO ADD ABOUT YOUR INTEREST IN THE COMMISSION THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER? UM, I GUESS THE ONLY THING I WOULD SAY IS THAT, YOU KNOW, I WILL, IF YOU WANT ME TO BE A COMMISSIONER, I WILL DO MY BEST AND I WILL TRY TO LEARN WHERE I, THINGS I DON'T KNOW. UM, AND I WILL LISTEN AND, YOU KNOW, KNOW I'M NOT TRYING TO GET IN A FIGHT WITH ANYBODY. UM, AND SO IF I'M A COMMISSIONER, I HOPE YEAH, I KNOW I DON'T WANNA GET IN A FIGHT WITH ANYBODY. YEAH. I WILL TRY TO EXPRESS MY VIEWPOINT AND AT SOME POINT, YOU KNOW, I CAN SAY I CAN TAKE A NO. UM, SO IF THAT'S THE KIND OF PERSON YOU WANT, THEN THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING TO CONSIDER. OKAY. YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF US? I HAVE QUESTIONS. OKAY. GO AHEAD KATHY. AND THEN WE'LL GO TO YOUR QUESTION. UM, DO YOU SPLIT YOUR TIME IN CALIFORNIA IN HERE? I DO IN ANY MEETING. I MEAN, IN A MEANINGFUL WAY. HAVE SOME TIME. UM, I MEAN, IT'S VERY FLEXIBLE. I DON'T HAVE ANY KIDS, SO JUST ME AND MY WIFE AND MY MOTHER-IN-LAW AND SHE'S FINE. UM, BECAUSE YOU JUST BOTH IN YOUR APPLICATION, THOSE ADDRESSES? YEAH, I BOTH ADDRESSES. SO IT'S A SIX HOUR DRIVE. IT'S A VERY EASY DRIVE. I'VE DONE IT. I HAVE, WE'VE HAD OUR HOUSE HERE SINCE 2005. UM, SO I CAN SPLIT MY TIME AND I CAN, AND I CAN SCHEDULE MY TIME TO MEET. OKAY. TO MEET. AND I, THE ONE THING I THOUGHT WAS GOOD WAS THAT SITE VISITS OCCUR THE SAME DAY AS A P AND Z MEETING, WHICH I THINK IS A GREAT IDEA. YEAH. SO, UM, IT SHOULD BE SOMETHING. I SHOULD BE, WE ARE WORKING MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY ON THE COMMISSION, SO YEAH. CONSOLIDATING THAT KIND OF STUFF. RIGHT. AND THEN I KNOW THERE ARE A LOT, I MEAN, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHO TOLD ME THAT, YOU KNOW, HALF THE DATES OR SOMETIMES THEY'RE CANCELED. THEY'RE NOT. SO IT'S NOT ANYWHERE NEAR THE AMOUNT OF EFFORT AND TIME AND COMMITMENT THAT CITY COUNCIL HAS FROM WHAT I CAN TELL. YEAH. COMPARING IT TO COUNCIL. ABSOLUTELY. RIGHT. FOUR OR MORE DAYS. TELL US ABOUT YOUR FOUNDING OF SEDONA BIZZ. WERE YOU THE SEMINOLE INVESTOR? I'M THE, I AM THE, I'M THE ONE WHO FOUND SEDONA BIZZ. YES. OKAY. UM, SO WHEN WE BOUGHT OUR HOUSE IN SEDONA, UM, I NOTICED THAT THE, THE RED ROCK NEWS WAS ONLY IN PRINT. THEY WERE NOT DOING ANY INTERNET. MM-HMM. . AND AGAIN, I AM NOT AN EDITOR. YOU CAN SEE I'M A BANKER. MM-HMM. . UM, BUT I THOUGHT, WELL, THIS IS A REALLY INTERESTING WAY TO LEARN HOW, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE CITY. START SIT DOWN A BIZ AND THERE'S NO INTERNET PRESENCE FOR NEWS, UH, GOING RIGHT NOW IN, IN THE COMMUNITY. YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH EDDY'S EDDIE S MADDOX? YES. YES. I KNOW WHAT HE NO, NO. SEDONA. I SEDONA, I, WOW. YEAH. F*****G TOUCHES. AND THERE WAS SEDONA TIMES AND, AND SO LIKE FOR INSTANCE, LIKE, UM, TOMMY ACOSTA AND I, HE USED TO WRITE FOR ME, BUT IT WAS REALLY MY INTEREST IN REALLY FIGURING OUT HOW TO GET INVOLVED IN THE COMMUNITY. UM, [01:05:01] SO, SO YOU WENT FROM BANKING TO PUBLISHING WAS NOT, NOT A HICCUP. I MEAN, MAKING MONEY WAS NOT EASY. . UM, AND THERE REALLY, DID YOU MAKE MONEY? NO, I DID NOT MAKE MONEY. AND, UM, THE RED ROCK NEWS IS PRETTY FORMIDABLE. THERE'S REALLY NO WAY TO, BUT WHAT I LEARNED QUICKLY WAS THAT THE RED ROCK NEWS, UM, WAS REALLY ONLY REPRESENTING A CERTAIN POINT OF VIEW. AND AT THE TIME IN ROB ADAMS WAS RUNNING FOR MAYOR. AND, UM, I THINK SEDONA BIZ WAS VERY INSTRUMENTAL IN GETTING HIS VOICE OUT AT THE TIME, UM, WHEN HE WAS RUNNING FOR MAYOR. UM, SO THAT'S WHEN I DIDN'T, I, YOU KNOW, CITY COUNCILS ARE, ARE VERY EASY FOR NEWS. RIGHT. THEY'RE, THEY'RE EASY NEWS. RIGHT. UM, AND SO YEAH, I RAN IT FOR A FEW YEARS. I REALIZED IT WASN'T GONNA MAKE ANY MONEY, BUT IT WASN'T REALLY THE REASON I DID IT. UM, AND THEN I SOLD IT TO STEVEN DEVAL. YEAH. UM, BECAUSE HE HAD A PASSION TO KEEP IT GOING, WHICH HE DID. MM-HMM. . AND THEN OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOW TRANSFERRED TO, UM, JOEY AND TOMMY. MM-HMM. WHO WERE PROBABLY THE BEST PEOPLE TO SHEPHERD IT. SO I HAVE NO INTEREST IN IT ANYMORE. UM, I THOUGHT FOR A SECOND MAYBE I WOULD TRY TO GET BACK INTO IT, BUT, UM, YEAH, IT JUST, IT'S JUST NOT A PA IT'S NOT, I WOULDN'T CALL IT A PASSION, IT WAS MORE OF AN INTEREST. MM-HMM. . AND FOR THE TIME, AND WHEN I DID IT, IT WAS CRAZY. I MEAN, IT WAS, THE RED ROCK NEWS WAS ACTUALLY, WAS NOT HAPPY AS YOU CAN IMAGINE THAT THERE WAS ANOTHER, YOU THINK THERE WAS ANOTHER VOICE THAT WAS GETTING THE NEWS OUT AND GETTING ANOTHER POINT OF VIEW OUT. YEAH. UM, SO I'M GLAD I'M HOW LONG DID YOU HAVE IT THEN? I HAD IT, I, I THINK I BOUGHT IT IN OH SIX AND I SOLD IT IN 2010, LIKE FOUR YEARS. OH, OKAY. SO YOU BOUGHT IT FROM WHO? I BOUGHT THE DOMAIN NAME. RIGHT. I CAN'T REMEMBER FROM WHO I BOUGHT IT FROM. UH, I BOUGHT THE DOMAIN NAME. YEAH, OF COURSE GETTING SEDONA.COM IS NOT GONNA HAPPEN. SEDONA NET WAS TAKEN FROM THE INTERNET, THE ISP. ALRIGHT. SO THERE WASN'T A LOT OF GOOD EXTENSIONS. SO SEDONA BIZ ENDED UP BEING THE, BEING THE EXTENSION, BUT I WANT THAT ONE WORD, YOU KNOW, SO I NEVER DO THAT. YEP. SO YOU SAID THE MAJOR, I'M SORRY, I THOUGHT YOU DONE. OH, OH, I HAVE LOTS OF QUESTIONS. UH, YOU SAID THE MAJOR PLANNING ISSUE IN THE COMMUNITY IS THE CULTURAL PARK. CAN YOU EXPAND UPON THAT? WELL, UM, I GUESS FOR THIS WHOLE, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S IT CALLED? UH, IT'S COMING UP ON FOR THE VOTE. I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THE CULTURAL PART, REFERENDUM REFERENDUM, OBVIOUSLY THAT'S A BIG ISSUE. HOW IT GETS USED. UM, IT'S A HUGE PROJECT. EVEN BUYING THE LAND WAS A BIG DEAL. RIGHT. I MEAN, HOW MANY TIMES, EVEN BACK IN MY SEDONA BZ DAYS, HOW MANY DEVELOPERS CAME IN AND HAD IDEAS WHAT THEY WERE GONNA DO WITH IT, AND THEN THEY JUST FADED AWAY INTO THE NOTHINGNESS. UM, BUT I DO HAVE A SENSE OF THE HISTORY OF THE CULTURAL PARK NOT DOING TOO WELL AS A CONCERT VENUE. MM-HMM. . UM, AND I REMEMBER, AND SO THAT STUCK WITH ME. SO THE IDEA OF A CONTINGENT OF THE COMMUNITY WANTING IT TO BE A CONCERT OR CENTER DOESN'T REALLY MAKE SENSE TO ME. IF IT DIDN'T WORK BACK THEN, I DON'T SEE WHY IT WOULD NOW. SO I AM VERY SUPPORTIVE OF, OF WHAT THE CITY WANTS TO DO WITH IT. BUYING IT OBVIOUSLY PUTS IT IN YOUR CONTROL. AND I JUST THINK, I GUESS WHEN I SAY IT'S CENTER, I JUST THINK IT'S A BIG PROJECT THAT HAS A LOT OF EYEBALLS ON IT AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT IT TO BE SOMETHING ELSE THAN MAYBE THE CITY WANTS IT TO BE. SO THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT. APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR ANSWERS. I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. COLLEAGUE. UH, NO QUESTIONS FOR US. ANY? UM, NOT REALLY. I, UH, I FEEL LIKE I KNOW YOU ALL AND I FEEL LIKE I KNOW THE CITY. I, I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. WE'LL CLOSE THIS INTERVIEW OUT. OKAY. WELL THANKS. THANKS FOR SPENDING THE TIME WITH ME. THANK YOU. OKAY. THANK YOU. NICE TO MEET YOU. NICE TO MEET YOU TOO. THANK YOU. OKAY, I'M RECORDING AGAIN. YES. YOU ALRIGHT? CAN I HAVE A MOTION TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION? SURE. WE HAVE A MOTION TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION. I'LL GOT A SECOND. SECOND. OKAY. ALSO, WE'LL GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION. , AND I SAID IT OFF OR OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO, UM, KATHY, YOU HAVE A MOTION FOR THE, UH, TWO EXISTING? YES. THANK YOU. I WOULD LIKE TO, UM, UH, RECOMMEND THAT HURST AND CHARLOTTE FINI, UM, SERVE ANOTHER, UH, TERM OF THREE YEARS. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY A I. AYE. , YOU BREAK IT TO MOUTH. OKAY. SO MOVED. UH, AND AS FAR AS THE EMPTY SEAT, UM, IS THERE ANY MOTION FOR EITHER ONE OF THE, UH, CANDIDATES SEEING NO MOTION [01:10:01] AT ALL? UH, WE WILL LET THE POSITION REMAIN OPEN. OPEN UNTIL WE CAN DO OTHER, UH, ADVERTISING AND OUTREACH. YEAH. RIGHT. ARE WE IN AGREEMENT TO THAT? THANK YOU. ALL IN FAVOR? MM-HMM. . WE ARE, WE ARE, WE ARE. WE ARE. SO YES, WE ARE UNANIMOUS ON THAT AS WELL. AND, UM, ARE, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE PERTAINING TO THIS? LET'S, LET'S CALL GEORGE. OKAY. LET'S PAUL, WE'LL DO THAT. UH, ANYTHING ELSE? HEARING NOTHING ELSE? ACTUALLY, LET'S NOT, I MAYBE ONE OF, EITHER ONE OF YOU COULD FOLLOW UP WITH HIM. I COULD DO THAT. I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T OKAY. DO YOU KNOW RIGHT. IT WOULD BE A SERVED TILL. OKAY. UM, FILLED IF POSSIBLE OR AT LEAST FOR NO UNTIL THE END OF DECEMBER, BUT THEN OKAY. WE'LL DISCUSS THAT. OKAY. OKAY. AND ANYTHING ELSE ON EITHER TOPIC? HEARING NOTHING ELSE WE'RE ADJOURNED. I TIRED. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.