* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. THEM ON [00:00:01] CAMERA. SOME PEOPLE SAID. OKAY. CAN I ASK EVERYBODY TO PLEASE TURN OFF YOUR, UH, CELL PHONES IF YOU HAVE THEM ON, OR SILENCE THEM? WE'RE GOING TO JUST START IN A MINUTE OR TWO. OH, OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WE'LL CALL THE [1. CALL TO ORDER/PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE/MOMENT OF SILENCE] MEETING TO ORDER. PLEASE JOIN ME FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE, THE FLAG FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY, LIBERTY, LIBERTY, JUSTICE FOR ALL, FOR ALL LIBERTY. AND NOW A MOMENT OF SILENCE, IF YOU WILL. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MADAM CLERK, [2. ROLL CALL/MOMENT OF ART] WOULD YOU PLEASE DO THE ROLL CALL? MAYOR JALO. HERE. VICE MAYOR PLU. PRESENT. COUNCILOR DUNN? HERE. COUNSELOR FOLTZ. HERE. COUNSELOR FURMAN. PRESENT. COUNSELOR KINSELLA. HERE. COUNSELOR FAF HERE. VERY GOOD. MAYOR, MAY I HAVE A POINT OF PERSONAL PRIVILEGE PLEASE? I'D LIKE TO WELCOME COUNSELOR FAF TO THE DAAS. I THANK YOU. CONGRATULATIONS. AND I'D LIKE TO WELCOME BACK COUNSELOR FIRM, AND WE'RE SO HAPPY TO SEE YOU HERE. I'M HAPPY TO BE SEEN UP HERE. OKAY. UH, SO WE'LL START WITH NANCY HANZI FOR OUR MOMENT OF ART. GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR, VICE MAYOR AND COUNSELORS. AND WELCOME COUNCIL FAF AND WELCOME BACK COUNCIL FURMAN AGAIN. UM, TODAY WE HAVE A VERY SPECIAL MOMENT OF ART. I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE JILL TRENHOLM, WHO YOU MAY REMEMBER, WAS HERE FOR JOHN BERG'S, UM, UH, SERVICE OF CELEBRATION OF LIFE. AND SHE WAS HIS PROTEGE. JILL IS AN EXTRAORDINARY MULTI-TALENTED ARTIST WHOSE CREATIVITY KNOWS NO BOUNDS. I FEEL FORTUNATE TO HAVE HER IN OUR ARTIST. IN THE CLASSROOM PROGRAM, STUDENTS SEE HER AS THEIR OWN MARY POPPINS. THEY THINK SHE'S FAMOUS, THEY IN WHICH SHE IS IN HER WAY. CURRENTLY, HER PASSION SHINES BRIGHTEST IN THE ART OF FINE SCULPTURE. TRANSFORMING CLAY INTO CAPTIVATING BRONZE WORKS WITH A FOUNDATION AND GIFT WEAR DESIGN. HER ARTISTIC JOURNEY HAS BEEN WONDERFULLY VARIED. HER MUSICAL PATH BEGAN WITH A VOCAL SCHOLARSHIP TO UTAH STATE UNIVERSITY, LEADING TO A SEASONED CAREER THAT HAS TAKEN HER FROM INTIMATE HOUSE CONCERTS TO CONCERT HALLS BEHIND HER ART AND MUSIC. JILL HAS A GENEROUS SPIRIT SHARING HER LOVE OF SCULPTURE WITH YOUNG LEARNERS AND WEAVING TOGETHER MUSIC AND STORYTELLING TO INSPIRE CHILDREN TO PRACTICE KINDNESS. UM, HER CARDS ARE AT THE FRONT DESK, IF YOU'D LIKE MORE INFORMATION. AND PLEASE WELCOME JILL TRENT HALL. THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU NANCY, FOR INVITING ME TO COME HERE. SO I PUT TOGETHER A QUICK VIDEO AND I CAN, UH, WALK THROUGH IT WITH YOU. SO I AM AN ARTIST, MUSICIAN AND A WRITER, AND I'M SPECIALIZING IN FINE ART BRONZE. CURRENTLY. THIS WAS A COMMISSION PIECE THAT I DID FOR A GENTLEMAN RIGHT HERE IN SEDONA. AND I ALSO DO LITTLE FAIRY BELLS. THESE ARE ABOUT SEVEN INCHES TALL, AND THE CLAPPERS INSIDE HAVE, ARE MADE WITH LITTLE ACORNS. AND, UM, I'M BEING REPRESENTED BY, UM, EXPOSURES GALLERY. THIS IS CARE NUNO, A CELTIC, UM, MYTHOLOGICAL FIGURE. HE WAS A, HE IS DEPICTED ON ANCIENT ARTIFACTS WITH, UH, A DRAGON HEADED SERPENT WITH RAM'S HORN. SO THIS WAS MY INTERPRETATION OF HIM. AND I DID STUDY UNDER JOHN SODABERG FOR MANY YEARS AND BECAME HIS ASSISTANT. ABOUT NINE MONTHS BEFORE HE PASSED, HE COMMISSIONED ME TO SCULPT MERLIN, HIS BIG MERLIN, AND, AND ONLY HE WANTED ME TO SCULPT IT AT 14 INCHES. AND HE DID GET TO SEE THE CLAY FINISHED, BUT NOT THE, UM, THE BRONZE. AND I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW HEARTBROKEN I AM THAT OUR BIG MERLIN IS NO LONGER IN FRONT OF WHOLE FOODS. AND I GUESS THERE'S A QUESTION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IT WILL COME BACK. BUT, UM, I KNOW THE SCULPTURE INSIDE AND OUT, EVERY SINGLE LEAF, EVERY SINGLE FOLD. AND THE STORY BEHIND IT, I RECORDED JOHN TALKING ABOUT IT, AND I HAVE THAT RECORDING. THIS WAS A COMMISSION OF THOMAS RILEY MARSHALL FOR THE STATE OF INDIANA. HE IS THE VICE PRESIDENT UNDER WHO, UM, [00:05:01] WOODROW WILSON. THAT'S RIGHT. AND, UH, HIS GLASSES WERE A CHALLENGE BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST THOSE PIRS THAT FIT OVER HIS NOSE. I DID THE TEXTURE OF HIS, UH, SUIT WITH SCREEN. THIS PIECE I ENVISION TO BE 17 AND A HALF FEET TALL. SHE'S THE LOVING HEART OF SEDONA, AND I ENVISION HER EITHER IN A ROUNDABOUT OR MAYBE EVEN A REPLACEMENT FOR MERLIN. IF IT'S A ROUNDABOUT, I'D LIKE HER TO BE DUPLICATED ON BOTH SIDES. SHE'S WELCOMING VISITORS AND ALL OF SEDONA INTO HER OPEN HEART. AND I'M GONNA HAVE THE HEART LIGHT UP. AND, UM, HER CROWN IS MADE OF SAGUARO CACTUS FLOWERS. AND, UH, I REALLY LIKE, I REALLY LIKE HER WELCOMING, WELCOMING ENERGY. THIS I WOULD LIKE TO SEE AS A 30 FOOT MONUMENT TO ONENESS. THERE ARE EIGHT FIGURES AROUND THE BASE OF THIS TREE, AND THEY EACH REPRESENT A CONTINENT ON OUR PLANET, AND ONE REPRESENTS THE UNIVERSE, AND THEY'RE ALL HOLDING HANDS, AND THEY'RE RACELESS AND GENDERLESS AND VERY SERENE. THE TREE IS COVERED WITH CRYSTAL LANTERNS AND FLOWERS. AND THIS WILL BE STANDING ON TOP OF A 36 FOOT STONE MOSAIC LABYRINTH. AND AS YOU WALK THIS LABYRINTH, YOU'RE REMINDED THAT WE'RE ALL PART OF THIS PLANET. WE'RE ALL ONE, AND THESE PATHWAYS ARE ABOUT FOUR FEET WIDE. AND, UH, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ONE OF THESE ON EACH OF OUR CONTINENTS, BUT I WOULD LIKE THE FIRST ONE TO BE RIGHT HERE IN SEDONA SOMEWHERE WOULD BE GREAT. AND, UH, THERE'S SO MANY MONUMENTS THAT ARE MADE TO DEPICT AND HONOR WAR HEROES AND POLITICIANS. AND I THINK WE NEED MORE MONUMENTS TO, UH, FOR LOVE AND PEACE AND UNITY. SO HERE YOU SEE ALL THE LAND ANIMALS AND THE SEA ANIMALS. AND YOU WALK THIS AND IT, IT TAKES YOU BACK TO THE CENTER OF THAT TREE WHERE IF YOU NOTICE THE FIGURES, THERE'S A HAND ON EACH SIDE OF THE OPENING IN THE TREE. AND IF YOU TOUCH THE HAND ON EACH SIDE, IT WILL COMPLETE A CIRCUIT THAT LIGHTS UP THESE HEARTS THAT ARE, ARE SHINING FROM THE INSIDE WITH ROSE QUARTZ, UH, THE HEARTS ON THE, THE CHARACTERS. I AM ALSO TEACHING JOHN SODERBERGH'S METHODS. I DO IT RIGHT HERE IN SEDONA. AND THESE ARE SOME OF MY STUDENTS' WORK. AND I'M ALSO HELPING SODERBERGH'S, UH, THIS IS ROBERT. HE WORKED WITH JOHN SODERBERG AS WELL, AND HE'S FINISHING UP HIS PROJECTS AS WELL. AND THIS IS WHAT I LOVE TO DO, GO TO THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND, UH, TEACH KIDS HOW TO SCULPT. AND WE ARE SCULPTING MICE. THESE ARE 4-YEAR-OLD KIDS, AND THEY'RE DOING A PRETTY DARN GOOD JOB. I LOVE THIS LITTLE ONE. HE GETS HIS NOSE ON THERE AND LOOK AT HIS SMILE WHEN HE FINISHES . HE'S PRETTY HAPPY. WELL, WE'RE GONNA PAINT THEIR NOSES PINK. AND, UH, THEY'RE, THEY ALSO PAINT PINK DOTS IN THEIR EARS, BUT IT IS REALLY, REALLY FUN TO DO. ANOTHER THING I DO AT THE SCHOOL IS I TAKE MY GUITAR OVER THERE AND PLAY MUSIC WITH THE KIDS. AND I HAVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF SONGS ABOUT KINDNESS AND, UM, MAKING GOOD THINGS HAPPEN. AND THERE'S A SONG CALLED THE GRATITUDE ATTITUDE. AND THE, THAT PROGRAM STARTED WITH A CHILDREN'S BOOK SERIES I WROTE CALLED GINA'S JOURNEY. THIS IS ONE OF THE ILLUSTRATIONS FROM THE BOOK, AND THERE'S SEVEN BOOKS IN THE SERIES. THEY EACH COME WITH A FIGURINE THAT'S JINA AND ALL HER COMPANIONS. AND, UH, THERE'S SEVEN OF THESE BOOKS THAT ROLL INTO A NOVEL FOR NINE TO 12 YEAR OLDS. AND THE THEME THROUGHOUT THE BOOK IS KINDNESS. SO I READ THE FIRST STORY TO THE KIDS WHEN I GO TO THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND WE TALK ABOUT THE DIFFERENT KIND OF THINGS. UM, THAT BOOK SERIES TURNED INTO THIS, WHICH IS AN EDUCATOR'S PACKAGE, A KINDNESS KIT THAT I GOT INTO MANY SCHOOLS. I REACHED ABOUT 4,000 KIDS SO FAR TO TEACH KIDS HOW TO PRACTICE KINDNESS. AND I GOT THEM INTO THE SCHOOLS FOR FREE BY GOING AROUND AND GETTING BUSINESSES TO PURCHASE AND DONATE THE PACKAGES TO THE SCHOOLS. AND THEN I GO TO THE SCHOOL AND SING THE SONGS. AND THEY'VE ALREADY LEARNED THEM FROM THE MUSIC AND STORYTELLING, DVD AND IT'S JUST HEARTWARMING WHEN THEY ARE SINGING THOSE SONGS THAT I WROTE. I JUST LOVE IT. AND I'VE BEEN GOING TO THE SCHOOL HERE, SCHOOL HERE, AND TEACHING THE KIDS. I'M ALSO A PROFESSIONAL MUSICIAN AND I HAVE A BAND CALLED THE BOYFRIENDS, AND THOSE ARE THEM IN MY REFLECTION OF MY GLASSES. I OPENED FOR MICHAEL MCDONALD AT MARY HILL AMPHITHEATER IN WASHINGTON. AND I ALSO OPENED FOR ANDY MCKEES, AN INCREDIBLE GUITARIST AT THE HOUSE OF BLUES IN LAS VEGAS. I'VE ALSO PLAYED IN STUTTGART, GERMANY AND IN FLORENCE, ITALY AND SICILY AND IN SICILY. YES. UM, HERE'S SOME OTHER ART THAT I DO AS AN ASSEMBLAGE ART. THERE'S SOME SCULPTURE THAT I DO AND I ADD ALL KINDS OF FUN FINDINGS. I'M ALWAYS, UH, LOOKING AT THE FLEA MARKETS AND, AND, UH, VINTAGE SALE, UH, SALES [00:10:01] FOR STUFF. AND I ALSO HAVE WRITTEN IN A COOKIE BOOK CALLED DECORATING COOKIES WITH ROYAL ICING. AND YOU MAY HAVE SEEN MY SEDONA COOKIES HERE AT FUNDRAISERS OR AT KAREN'S BAKERY. AND, UH, I REALLY ENJOY DOING THAT, ALL THE DIFFERENT HOLIDAYS. AND I ALSO DO WEDDING CAKES. AND, UH, ONE OF MY SPECIALTIES IS SCULPTURED CAKES. AND THIS IS A CAKE FOR A COUPLE THAT LIKE TO TRAVEL A LOT. SO THAT'S ABOUT IT. . THANK YOU. WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING TO THE COUNCIL AND PRESENTING YOUR, YOUR WORK IS REMARKABLY SO CLOSE TO JOHN BERG'S AND HE WAS A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE AND I APPRECIATE SEEING IT. IT'S LIKE HE DID IT ALL HIMSELF, SO I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. AND I KNOW YOU HAVE YOUR OWN STYLE AND TOUCH, BUT MERLIN LOOKED SO MUCH LIKE THE STATUE FROM WHOLE FOODS. I TRIED MY BEST , IT LOOKED AMAZING. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING TODAY. SO, OKAY, ITEM THREE, UH, CONSENT ITEMS. BEFORE WE BEGIN WITH THAT, I WANT TO ADDRESS, UH, THE PEOPLE. NANCY, DON'T GO AWAY. WHAT? JUST STICK AROUND FOR ITEM FIVE. WHAT? STICK AROUND FOR ITEM FIVE. OKAY. OKAY. UM, IF ANYONE'S HERE FOR THE, UH, DISCUSSION OF THE RANGER STATION BATHROOM, THAT WILL BE, UH, DEFERRED, UH, TO ANOTHER FUTURE MEETING. I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO STAY, STAY HERE ANTICIPATING AN ITEM COMING UP ON THE AGENDA AND IT'S BEEN PULLED. SO, UH, IF YOU'RE NOT HERE FOR THAT, I HOPE YOU'RE HERE FOR SOMETHING ELSE, BUT I JUST DIDN'T WANT TO HOLD PEOPLE LONGER THAN WE NEEDED TO. UM, SO [3. CONSENT ITEMS - APPROVE] WE HAVE CONSENT ITEMS. UH, THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR STAFF, UH, COUNCIL OR THE PUBLIC TO PULL AN ITEM. I KNOW THAT COUNCIL KINSELLA HAS ALREADY SAID THAT SHE WISHES TO PULL ITEM I, WHICH IS FOR THE OHVS. UH, CAN I HAVE A, A MOTION FOR, UH, THE OTHERS? I THINK THAT'S ITEM L THAT I'M PULLING. OKAY. ALRIGHT. OKAY. CORRECT. FINE. , GEEZ. I'LL MAKE A MOTION. OKAY. ITEM L. THANK YOU. HOLD ON, MAYOR AND COUNCIL, WE HAVE ONE OTHER COUNSELOR. UH, WE ALSO NEED TO PULL ITEM F. ITEM F AS WELL. THANK YOU. I FORGOT WHICH ONE THAT WAS. OKAY. SO, UH, A MOTION. UH, YOU, THAT'S YOU. OKAY. I MOVE, UH, TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEMS THREE. A, B, C, D, E, G, H-I-J-K-M SECOND. OKAY. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. SO, UH, LET'S GO [3.f. AB 3143 Approval of a recommendation regarding an application for a Series 10 Beer and Wine Store for Circle K Store #9547 located at 2820 AZ89A, Sedona, AZ, 86336 (File #F0065980)] WITH ITEM F FIRST. COUNCILLOR FAFF. YOU WANT TO ADDRESS PULLING THAT, AYE. YEAH, I, UH, PULLING IT JUST SO SPECIFICALLY SO THAT I CAN RECUSE MYSELF FROM THE MATTER. OKAY. UM, I DO SOME LEGAL WORK FOR CIRCLE K, SO I CAN'T PARTICIPATE IN DISCUSSION OF THEIR MATTER. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT TO OUR ATTENTION. MAY MAYOR AND COUNCIL. COUNCILLOR F THAT'S ALSO, UM, ITEM A L SO YOU'RE GONNA RECUSE YOURSELF. YEAH. JUST ADDRESSING BOTH. THAT WAY YOU CAN. OKAY. I ALSO NEED TO RECUSE WITH RESPECT TO ITEM L. I UNDERSTAND. FOR THE SAME REASONS. THANK YOU. SO THEN, UM, CAN WE HAVE A MOTION FOR ITEM, UH, F AND L? WELL, KATHY. OH, KATHY, THAT'S WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO? YOU WANNA TAKE F FIRST THOUGH? THAT ONE'S UP TO COUNCIL. WHICH ONE? YEAH, CAN I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM F? SECOND. SECOND. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. AND ONE ABSTENTION. OKAY. AND NOW L NOW [3.l. AB 3097 Approval of a Resolution establishing a 15mph speed limit for OHVs and ATVs on Morgan Road.] LI APOLOGIZE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UM, I'M PULLING THIS, UH, REALLY NOT FOR A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON IT, BUT I HAD ONE QUESTION AND ONE COMMENT THAT I JUST WANTED TO GET ON THE RECORD BEFORE WE, UH, MOVED ON THIS ITEM. AND LIKE, MY QUESTION IS, WE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS ON MORGAN ROAD AND WHAT THE SPEED LIMIT SHOULD BE IN CREATING TWO CLASSES OF SPEED LIMITS. ONE FOR O HBS AND ONE FOR OTHER VEHICLES. AND I THINK THAT THE PEOPLE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD HAVE, HAVE SUFFERED GREATLY, UM, WITH THE TRAFFIC ON THERE AND SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE. SO I, ALTHOUGH THIS MAY NOT BE IN MY MIND IDEAL, I CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT I DO WANNA SUPPORT, BUT I WANT FIRST AN ASSURANCE THAT HOW EASY IF WE DO THIS IS IT TO UNDO IT. KURT, THAT IS MY QUESTION IS, WOULD WE NEED TO, WHAT PROCESS WOULD WE NEED TO GO THROUGH IF WE FIND THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM? 'CAUSE MY CONCERN IS THAT IF YOU HAVE A VEHICLE GOING 15 MILES AN HOUR BECAUSE IT'S THAT CLASS AT THAT SPEED, AND THEN YOU HAVE A VEHICLE BEHIND IT THAT IS SUBJECT TO A GREATER SPEED, IS IT GOING TO, COULD IT POSSIBLY ENCOURAGE SOMETHING THAT MIGHT LEAD TO, UH, AN ACCIDENT OR SOMETHING? IF WE START TO SEE ANY INDICATION OF THAT, HOW EASY COULD WE UNDO THIS? BECAUSE IT MIGHT WORK, IT MIGHT NOT. MAYOR AND COUNCIL, UH, SINCE COUNSEL'S APPROVING THIS BY RELU RESOLUTION, IT'LL TAKE A RESOLUTION TO UNDO IT. UM, IF STAFF SEES THERE'S AN ISSUE, WE CAN BRING BACK A RESOLUTION ON CONSENT AGENDA TO COUNSEL AGAIN, JUST [00:15:01] TO, TO UNDO THE ACTION. SO IT'S QUICK. IT CAN BE QUICK, YES. OKAY. I JUST, I WANTED TO BE ASSURED OF THAT AND TO GET ON THE RECORD AND MY CONCERN ON THE RECORD. AND WITH THAT I AM, I'M GONNA SUPPORT THE ITEM. 'CAUSE AS I SAID, I THINK WE NEED TO TRY ANYTHING WE CAN FOR, FOR GIVING, UM, RELIEF TO THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. SO WITH THAT, IF THERE'S ANOTHER DISCUSSION, I CAN MAKE A MOTION. WHEN YOU READY, WOULD YOU PLEASE? YEP. OKAY. SO I'D LIKE TO MAKE, MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE, UH, ITEM THREE L, WHICH IS ESTABLISHES A 15 MILE PER HOUR SPEED LIMIT FOR OHVS AND ATVS ON MORGAN ROAD. SECOND. SECOND, UH, BY BRIAN. SECOND BY BRIAN. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? AND WE HAVE THE ONE AB EXTENS, SO I DIDN'T SAY, OH YEAH, I'M SORRY. RIGHT. SORRY. SORRY. YEAH, THAT'S OKAY. OKAY, THANK YOU. UH, OKAY. ITEM [4.a. AB 3139 Discussion/possible action regarding the appointment/reappointment of Planning & Zoning Commissioners] FOUR APPOINTMENTS AB 31 39. DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING THE APPOINTMENT. REAPPOINTMENT OF PLANNING IS ZONING COMMISSIONERS. OKAY, SO WE HAVE NO, THAT'S ALRIGHT. SO WE, THE, THE, UM, SELECTION COMMITTEE HAS UNANIMOUSLY RECOMMENDED THE REAPPOINTMENT OF, UH, CHARLOTTE HONI AND WIL HURST. UH, IS THERE ANYTHING FROM, UH, ANNETTE, IS THERE ANYTHING FROM THE STAFF AT ALL? THAT'S JUST STRICTLY FOR US. OKAY. THAT'S, DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU HAD ANYTHING FOR US. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO I'LL MAKE THE MOTION. THANK YOU. I MOVE TO REAPPOINT CHARLOTTE HUI AND WILL HURST TO SEATS ON THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION FOR TERMS THAT WILL BEGIN ON NOVEMBER 1ST, 2024 AND END OCTOBER 31ST, 2027 OR UNTIL A SUCCESSOR IS APPOINTED, WHICHEVER IS LATER. I'D LIKE TO SECOND THAT. YES. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR? OR I SHOULD SAY ANY DISCUSSION? OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? WE ARE UNANIMOUS. OKAY, THANK YOU. OKAY. I'LL PUT THE GLASSES BACK ON FOR THIS SUMMARY OF CURRENT [5. SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY MAYOR/COUNCILORS/CITY MANAGER & COUNCIL ASSIGNMENTS] EVENTS BY, UH, THE MAYOR, COUNCILORS, CITY MANAGER, AND OUR RELATED TO OUR COUNCIL ASSIGNMENTS. OKAY. I HAVE SOMETHING IF ANYONE ELSE WOULD LIKE TO GO FIRST. I SEEING NONE AND THAT'S WHY I ASKED NANCY TO STAY HERE. UH, I HAD THE HONOR OF PRESENTING FOR THE MAYOR'S ARTS AWARD A WEEK OR SO AGO, AND I JUST WANTED TO REALLY THANK NANCY AND FOR, FOR ALL THE WORK THAT SHE DID. IT WAS AN INCREDIBLE EVENT AT THE MARY FISHER THEATER. WE, UH, HONORED, UH, WINNIE MENSCH AS AN INDIVIDUAL, THE SEDONA VISUAL ARTIST COALITION FOR THE BUSINESS AND THE ORGANIZATION, CHAMBER MUSIC, SEDONA FOR THE SEDONA COM, UH, COMMUNITY YOUTH ORCHESTRA EDUCATION. AND IT WAS A GREAT HONOR TO MEET SUSAN CLEAVER A LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT. I NEVER MET HER BEFORE, BUT MY GOD, AND I, I KNOW YOU HAVE TO KNOW HER WELL. SO, UH, IT WAS TRULY A HUMBLING EXPERIENCE FOR ME TO PRESENT THESE AWARDS TO SUCH GREAT, GREAT, UH, PEOPLE OF TALENT. SO I WANTED TO THANK NANCY FOR WHAT SHE DID AND, UH, I'LL LOOK FORWARD TO THE NEXT ONE. THANK YOU. SO I VICE MAYOR, YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD? I HAVE A CURRENT EVENT. OKAY. UM, WE ARE GOING TO BE GIVING A PROCLAMATION TO, UM, FOR KINDNESS DAY AND TO, UM, EXCUSE ME. AND IN LIGHT OF THAT, UH, THIS SEDONA KIND FROM SEDONA KIND AND SEDONA INTERNATIONAL FILM FESTIVAL ARE PRESENTING SENSATIONAL SHORTS, 10 AWARD WINNING FILMS. IT'S A FUNDRAISER FOR KINDNESS ACTIVITIES IN SEDONA, UH, WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 13TH, WHICH IS SEDONA KINDNESS. DAY TWO SCREENINGS, ONE AT FOUR, ONE AT SIX 30 AT THE MARY FISH, MARY D. FISHER THEATER THEATERS, I GUESS. AND FOR PREVIEWS AND TICKETS ONLINE, VISIT SEDONA FILM FESTIVAL.COM. OKAY. ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD? OKAY. SEEING NONE, WE WILL GO ON [6. PUBLIC FORUM ] TO THE PUBLIC FORUM. THE PUBLIC FORUM IS FOR PEOPLE'S, UH, COMMENTS THAT ARE NOT RELATED TO ITEMS ALREADY ON THE AGENDA. YOU COULD SPEAK ABOUT ANYTHING THAT YOU WISH. UH, IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY, GO OVER TO YOUR RIGHT ON THE TABLE. THERE ARE CARDS THERE, UH, THAT YOU SHOULD FILL OUT IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE SO. AND THEN HAND THEM TO THE CITY CLERK. SO I DO HAVE ONE CARD, UH, GEORGE HENER. GEORGE, I KNOW YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SHARE WITH US. [00:20:01] AND GEORGE IS, UH, FROM THE, UH, GREEN LIVING MAGAZINE. YEAH, I'M HAPPY TO BE HERE THIS EVENING WITH DORY MORALES, THE OWNER AND PUBLISHER OF GREEN LIVING. I'M A RESIDENT OF SEDONA. I'M THE GROWTH AND MARKETING ADVISOR FOR THE MAGAZINE IN NORTHERN ARIZONA, AND PARTICULARLY IN SEDONA. SO EVERY YEAR THE MAGAZINE HAS A BEST OF COMPETITION AND AWARDS SHOW IN, UH, SCOTTSDALE. AND THIS YEAR THE CITY WON, WHICH IS WHY WE'RE HERE TONIGHT. THE BEST OF DAY DESTINATION IN THE STATE, VOTED BY THE STATE. SO WE'RE HERE TO GIVE YOU AN AWARD AND ALSO, UM, FOR USE FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH GREEN LIVING, IT'S THE PREMIER ECO-CONSCIOUS LIFESTYLE MAGAZINE IN THE STATE. AND IT'S READ BY A HUNDRED THOUSAND PLUS PEOPLE EVERY MONTH. AND, UH, WE ALSO HAVE, THE AMAZING THING THAT HAPPENED THIS YEAR IN SEDONA IS MANY OF THE BUSINESSES HERE, LOCAL BUSINESSES, SUSTAINABLE AND GREEN BUSINESSES ARE ALSO WINNERS AND RUNNERS UP. AND SOME OF THEM ARE HERE TONIGHT AND WE'D LIKE TO CALL THEM OUT, STAND UP AND BE RECOGNIZED IN FRONT OF THE CITY. THEY DO AN AMAZING JOB. THEY TALK THE TALK, THEY WALK THE WALK WHEN IT COMES TO GREEN SUSTAINABLE BUSINESS PRACTICES, AND THEY SET AN EXAMPLE FOR ALL OF US. SO, DORY. HI, I AM DORY MORALES AND I'M THE PUBLISHER OF GREEN LIVING MAGAZINE. AND IT'S QUITE AN HONOR TO BE HERE TODAY TO GIVE YOU GUYS AN UPDATE. UM, WE HAD 13 WINNERS FROM SEDONA AND WE HAD FOUR RUNNERS UP. SO I'M GONNA START BY GIVING THE FIRST AWARD TO THE CITY OF SEDONA AND THEN CALLING OUT THE OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE AND GIVING THEM THEIR AWARDS AS WELL. THANK YOU SO MUCH. YEP. AND, UM, IS SEDONA BUREAU COMPANY HERE, MISS KAYLEE HERE? OKAY. UM, OAK CREEK VINEYARDS. COULD YOU TELL US WHICH, WHAT THEY WON THOUGH? LIKE IF, WHICH ONE A DIFFERENT, UM, SO BEST SUSTAINABLE BREWER, UM, RUNNER UP WAS SEDONA BEER COMPANY AND THEN BEST SUSTAINABLE WINE GROWER. THE WINNER WAS PAIGE SPRINGS, WHICH IS ERIC GSKI AND THE RUNNER. THE RUNNER UP WAS OAK CREEK VINEYARDS. AND THEN THE BEST SOLAR COMPANY, VERDE SOLAR AIR. CONGRATULATIONS. AND THEN THE BEST SUSTAINABLE ARCHITECT DESIGN GROUP ARCHITECTS, OF COURSE, AND KATHLEEN'S HERE. KATHLEEN VENTURA ACTUALLY WON FOUR AWARDS. SHE WON BEST ECO-FRIENDLY, SMALL BUSINESS FOR COMPOST CROWD. BEST ARIZONA COMPANY, DOING GOOD FOR THE PLANET, UP TO 200 EMPLOYEES. COMPOST CROWD, BEST GREEN LEADER, KATHLEEN VENTURA WITH COMPOST CROWD, AND THEN BEST SUSTAINABLY OR, UM, AND THEN SHE WON BEST GREEN LEADER. UM, AND ALL, ASK COLLIE NOW YOU CAN FOR TO BE A COMPANY. OH YEAH. CONGRATULATIONS, COLLIE. OKAY. AND CLERK WITH ANY CARDS WHILE I WAS NOT PAYING ATTENTION. , ANY MORE CARDS? NO, MA'AM. THANK YOU. OKAY, THANK YOU. SO WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC FORUM AND WE'LL CONTINUE ON TO ITEM [7.a. Proclamation, Sedona Kindness Day, November 13, 2024.] SEVEN, PROCLAMATIONS, RECOGNITIONS AND AWARDS. UH, WE HAVE A PROCLAMATION FOR SEDONA KINDNESS FOR, UH, NOVEMBER 13TH. THIS IS ALWAYS ONE OF MY FAVORITES. JOHN MCKINLEY, YOU WANNA COME UP TO THE MET YOU OVER HERE. OKAY. WHEREVER YOU WANNA, WHEREVER YOU WANNA STAY. OKAY. [00:25:01] SO, SO PROCLAMATION FOR SEDONA KINDNESS DAY, NOVEMBER 13TH, 2024. WHEREAS KINDNESS GIVES BIRTH TO KINDNESS, UH, S SUFFRAGES, IS THAT HOW IT'S PRONOUNCED? OKAY. AND IT IS OKAY. WHEREAS KINDNESS IS THE LANGUAGE THE DEAF CAN HEAR AND THE BLANK CAN SEE MARK TWAIN. AND WHEREAS DEEDS OF KINDNESS ARE EQUAL TO WEIGHT, TO ALL THE, UH, COMMANDMENTS, THE, UH, ALMED AND WHERE, UH, KINDNESS IS A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF THE HUMAN CONDITION, WHICH BRIDGES THE DIVIDES OF RACE, RELIGION, POLITICS, AND GENDER. AND WHEREAS IN 1998, WORLD KINDNESS DAY WAS INTRODUCED BY THE WORLD KINDNESS MOVEMENT TO HIGHLIGHT, UH, GOOD DEEDS IN ALL COMMUNITIES FOCUSING ON THE POSITIVE POWER AND THE COMMON THREAD OF KINDNESS THAT BINDS US ALL. AND WHEREAS A GROUP OF SEDONA CITIZENS FORMED, UH, SEDONA KIND TO HELP SPREAD KINDNESS AND ENCOURAGE ACTS OF KINDNESS LOCALLY AND AROUND THE WORLD, AND TO URGE ALL CITIZENS TO CREATE THEIR OWN ACTS OF KINDNESS, UH, TO PAY IT FORWARD AND TO MATCH THE MAGIC TRANSFORMATION, TRANSFORMATION, TRANSFORMATIVE, EXCUSE ME, POWER OF THE RED ROCKS AND THE KINDNESS OF ALL THE CITIZENS WHO LIVE HERE NOW. THEREFORE, I SCOTT, JOB MAYOR OF THE CITY OF SEDONA, ARIZONA ON BEHALF OF THE SEDONA CITY COUNCIL, IN RECOGNITION OF THE HISTORICAL VALUE OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMITMENT TO OBSERVING A DAY OF, TO CELEBRATE KINDNESS, TO HEREBY PRO PROCLAIM WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 13TH, 2024, UH, SEDONA KINDNESS DAY, AND ENCOURAGE ALL CITIZENS OF SEDONA TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND TAKE TO HEART THE STATEMENT BY SENECA, WHEREVER THERE IS A HUMAN BEING, THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE KIND ISSUE. THIS 12TH DAY OF NOVEMBER, 2024, OH, HERE, I'LL JUST GIVE IT TO, I'LL JUST GIVE IT TO HER. , YES. YOU KNOW, A FEW WORDS, YOU KNOW ME, , UH, I THINK THIS IS THE SEVENTH OR EIGHTH TIME THAT THE COUNCIL HAS HONORED SEDONA KIND WITH A PROCLAMATION. AND WE THANK YOU. WE ARE SO GRATEFUL THAT OUR COUNCIL AND OUR CITY APPRECIATES AND UNDERSTANDS THE VALUE OF KINDNESS IN OUR COMMUNITY AND IN OUR WORLD AND AMONG EACH OTHER. UM, JUST TO SHOW YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT WE'VE, HOW WE DESERVE THIS, THIS YEAR, UM, WE STARTED WITH A DAY OF KINDNESS. SEDONA KINDNESS DAY. THEN WE WENT TO A WEEK OF KINDNESS, AND NOW WE'RE CALLING IT A SEASON OF KINDNESS . SO, UM, IT STARTED, UM, YESTERDAY, UH, UPTOWN AND AT THE MUSEUM WE DISTRIBUTED 100, UH, KINDNESS CHARMS. THERE HAVE BEEN OVER 10,000 OF THEM ALL AROUND THE WORLD. MOST OF YOU HAVE SEEN THEM AROUND. UM, AND, UH, 50 OF THEM AT THE MUSEUM FOR OUR WONDERFUL VETERANS WHO WERE THERE FOR THE CELEBRATION, UM, AS COUNCILMAN HOLLY, I'M SORRY, COUNCILMAN FLUKE SAID TOMORROW WILL BE, UH, AT THE MARY FISHER THEATERS, THE, UM, SENSATIONAL SHORTS. AND I HOPE IT CAN ALL COME. IT'S SOMETHING YOU CAN'T SEE ON STREAMING BECAUSE IT'S 10 AWARD-WINNING SORTS. UH, AWARD-WINNING, UH, FROM PAST FESTIVALS THAT ALSO IMBIBE ALL OF OUR THEORIES OF KINDNESS AND GENEROSITY. UM, OUR GRATITUDE TREES, WHICH ARE A TRADITION, HAVE ALREADY GONE UP AROUND TOWN IN THE SCHOOLS AND IN ELDERLY, UH, AT THE COMMUNITY CENTER. AND IT'S SEDONA WINS AND MANY, MANY PLACES. SO YOU CAN GO AND FIND THEM AND READ ABOUT NOT ONLY WHAT YOU'RE GONNA WRITE ON, WHAT YOU'RE GRAD GRATEFUL FOR, BUT WHAT YOUR FELLOW CITIZENS ARE GRATEFUL FOR. AND THAT'S REALLY A TREASURE IN ITS OWN. UM, BUT ON 756 HATS, WHICH WE DO EVERY YEAR FOR THE CHILDREN HERE THAT ARE KNITTED BY OUR AMAZING KNITTERS ARE GOING TO BE DELIVERED, UM, DURING KINDNESS WEEK AND OUR SEASON OF KINDNESS TO OUR SCHOOLS. AND, UM, AND 100 OF THESE THINGS KIND OF A NEW PROJECT FOR US. THESE ARE CALLED LAP DANS. AND THEY'RE GONNA BE DELIVERED TO THE VETERANS HOSPITAL IN PRESCOTT WRAPPED LIKE THIS, TO THE VETERANS WHO DON'T GET ANY CHRISTMAS PRESENTS AT ALL. AND SO THAT'S ANOTHER THING THAT WE FOLDED INTO OUR SEASON OF KINDNESS AND BLESSING. BAGS TO OUR HOMELESS VETERANS ARE GONNA BE DELIVERED OVER TO, UM, POST 7,400 IN COTTONWOOD. AND ONE THING THAT'S NEW WAS NEW LAST YEAR, BUT KIND OF CAPS OUT OUR SEASON OF KINDNESS THIS YEAR IS A PARTY FOR VERDE VALLEY CAREGIVERS, UH, NEIGHBORS, A CHRISTMAS HOLIDAY PARTY FOR, FOR SOME OF THEIR TRAVELING NEIGHBORS WHO ARE ALLOWED TO COME OUT AND HAVE AN, A SOCIAL AND WONDERFUL EVENT. [00:30:01] SO THO THAT'S OUR SEASON OF KINDNESS. UM, ONE THING THAT I'D JUST LIKE TO SHARE WITH YOU, JUST TO SHOW YOU THAT THE SEASON OF KINDNESS IS ALL YEAR LONG. UM, THIS YEAR WE WERE AWARDED A GRANT FROM 100 WOMEN WHO CARE, SO THAT WE COULD GIVE, GIVE PASS ALONG THAT AWARD TO WEST EDON SCHOOL SO THAT NO CHILD IN SCHOOL, NO PARENT IN IN THAT SCHOOL WAS, WAS GIVEN A LIST OF ITEMS TO BRING IN FOR THE BEGINNING OF SCHOOL. EVERY CHILD GOT A LIST, EVERY PARENT GOT A LIST. AND SO ALL THE SUPPLIES, THE SCHOOL SUPPLIES ARE PROVIDED BY THAT GRANT THAT WE WERE ABLE TO PASS ALONG. AND WE GOT THIS AMAZING, EVERY CHILD IN WESTERN SKILLS SIGNED THIS WITH, WITH THANK YOU. JUST, JUST HOW WE MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR NO CHILD TO BE DIFFERENT, NO CHILD TO BE LESS, AND NO PARENTS WHO HAVE TO WORK TWO AND THREE JOBS HAVE TO GO OUT AND SPEND THEIR MONEY OR NO TEACHERS TO GIVE THEM SUPPLIES THAT WILL GIVE THEM A SUCCESSFUL SCHOOL YEAR. SO, UM, I USUALLY END WITH THE SAME KIND AS QUOTE, WHICH IS THE DALAI LAMA SAYING, BE KIND WHENEVER POSSIBLE. IT'S ALWAYS POSSIBLE. BUT I HAVE A DIFFERENT ONE FOR YOU TODAY. ALL OF YOU HERE, ALL OF YOU HEARING THESE WORDS, HAVE LOVED SOMEONE, HAVE DONE SOMEONE A KINDNESS, HAVE HEALED, A WOUND, HAVE TAKEN ON A CHALLENGE, AND HAVE CREATED SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL. EVERY MOMENT YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND EVERY MOMENT YOU CAN BE KIND. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS ALWAYS SUPPORTING US KINDNESS. THANK YOU SO MUCH. OKAY, SEVEN [7.b. Citizen’s Academy participants, certificate presentation.] B ASSISTANT ACADEMY PARTICIPANT CERTIFICATE OF PRESENTATION. CERTIFICATE. PRESENTATION. YES. SO WHO'S GO? OH, THERE YOU ARE. KEEGAN, WHY DON'T YOU SIT OVER THERE. I DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU WERE HERE. OKAY. SO GO AHEAD. OKAY. THANK YOU MAYOR JOLO, VICE MAYOR, PLU, AND COUNSELORS. MY NAME IS KEEGAN MOORCROFT AND I AM THE SPECIAL INITIATIVES COORDINATOR. I'M SO GRATEFUL TO HAVE FACILITATED AND MODERATED THE 2024 CITIZENS ACADEMY. I'M TRULY AMAZED BY OUR 14 RESIDENTS AND OUR THREE STAFF PARTICIPANTS. THEIR DEDICATION, THIRST FOR KNOWLEDGE, AND QUEST FOR MEANINGFUL CONTRIBUTION HAS BEEN BOTH REFRESHING AND INCREDIBLY VALUABLE. THIS GROUP IS KIND, INSPIRED, RESPECTFUL, PATIENT, AND MOTIVATED TO GET INVOLVED EVERY YEAR. THE GROUP JUST GETS BETTER AND BETTER. SO I'M, I'M REALLY GRATEFUL. UH, GET FAMILIAR WITH THESE FACES THAT YOU'RE ABOUT TO SEE AS THEY WILL BE INVOLVED IN COMMISSIONS, BOARDS, AND WORK GROUPS, RIGHT? YEAH. UM, DIRECTLY AFTER THE CITIZENS ACADEMY PARTICIPANTS RECEIVE THEIR CERTIFICATES. I HOPE YOU'LL JOIN ME IN THE COURTYARD FOR SOME SWEET SHEETS TO CELEBRATE. I'M NOW GOING TO CALL UP EACH PARTICIPANT TO STAND BELOW THE DEIS. PLEASE STAY THERE TO BE RECOGNIZED BY MAYOR JAO AND RECEIVE YOUR CERTIFICATE OF COMPLETION AND GET A GROUP PHOTO. HOW ABOUT, HOW ABOUT I ANNOUNCE IT AND YOU STAND OVER THERE? WELL, I'LL GIVE THAT TO YOU 'CAUSE I, I HAVE DISTRICT HERE, MAYOR. OKAY. WE COULD HAVE TALKED ABOUT THAT BEFOREHAND. OKAY. . GARY WHITEHILL, COME ON UP. YOU'RE THE FIRST CONTESTANT. CAROL BRE. LINDSEY SACKS. JIM HAMILTON, MARLO JOHNSON. MARK BAYFIELD, MICHAEL MCCALL. YARA SULLIVAN. SHE'S NOT HERE. RICK COHEN. DAVE THOMAS, MAX NEWTS. AND OUR STAFF. UH, CHRISTIE TURK, MEGAN TURNER, [00:35:01] AND ERIN SEIFERT KING. WHAT ABOUT THE WOMAN? OH MY GOD, MARY SUPPOSED YEAH, BUT I WAITING FOR MARY LEES . WHO ELSE DID I MISS? NOBODY. OKAY. YEAH. MM-HMM. SO LET'S PUT THE, IN THE MIDDLE AND THEN SQUEEZE IN. AND IF THE COUNCIL COULD JUST STAND UP AND GET IN THE MIDDLE. STAND ON YOUR COUNTER NEIGHBOR. YEAH. PICK HEADS TO GO BETWEEN. RIGHT. OKAY. IT REMINDS ME OF MY BAPTISM. EVERYBODY SMILE. OKAY. UH, BIG SMILES. ONE, TWO. ALL RIGHT. GOOD JOB, GUYS. I WAS READY TO LIKE, JUST PUT A DUCK BEHIND FOLKS. OH, THAT'S GO THROUGH KEEGAN. I GAVE THE REST OF EM TO KEEGAN. OH, YES. OKAY. HERE. OKAY. UH, ITEM EIGHT, [8.a. AB 3125 Public hearing/discussion/possible action regarding proposed revisions to the Sedona Land Development Code. The proposed revisions include allowances for Accessory Dwelling Units (ADUs), updates to reflect State legislation regarding time frames for processing residential rezoning applications, and updates to definitions to more accurately define terms. Case Number: PZ24-00010 (LDC) Applicant: City of Sedona.] REGULAR BUSINESS A WOULD BE AB 31 25 PUBLIC HEARING. DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION. REGARDING PROPOSED REVISIONS TO THE SEDONA LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. THE PROPOSED REVISIONS INCLUDE ALLOWANCES FOR ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS, ADU UPDATES TO REFLECT THE STATE LEGISLATION REGARDING TIMEFRAMES FOR PROCEEDING, RESIDENTIAL, I'M SORRY, PROCESSING RESIDENTIAL REZONING APPLICATIONS AND UPDATES TO DEFINITIONS TO MORE ACCURATELY DEFINED TERMS. CASE NUMBER PZ 24 DASH 0 0 1. ZERO ZERO LDC. THAT'S THE APPLICANT AS THE CITY OF SEDONA. CARRIE MEYER. HI MAYOR. VICE MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL. UM, SO WHEN I PUT A GOOD DESCRIPTION IN THE AGENDA, BILL LANGUAGE SCOTT GIVES THE SUMMARY OF WHAT WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT TONIGHT. SO YES, THIS IS, UM, SOME LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENTS MAINLY AROUND ADUS, BUT SOME OTHER LEGAL UPDATES TO MAKE SURE WE'RE IN COMPLIANCE WITH STATE LAW. AND TO CLARIFY, UM, SOME OTHER THINGS THIS, THESE WENT TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION THE BEGINNING OF OCTOBER. THEY RECOMMENDED APPROVAL, UM, BUT ALSO WANTED TO HAVE A BETTER DEFINITION OF WHAT RESIDING MEANS, WHICH IS REFLECTED IN THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WERE IN YOUR PACKET. UM, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I AM OPEN FOR QUESTIONS IF YOU HAVE ANY. OKAY. BRING IT BACK TO THE DEUS. ANYTHING FROM THE DEUS VICE MAYOR. SO THIS IS VERY, UH, A SMALL CHANGE. BIG CHANGE, BUT A SMALL CHANGE. MM-HMM. . AND I HAD A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER IT'S SUFFICIENT, SO I TOTALLY SUPPORT WHAT WHAT'S IN HERE. BUT MY QUESTION IS, HAVE YOU CONSIDERED A MINIMUM SIZE FOR AN A DU AND ALSO THE ALLOWANCE FOR OTHER FORMS OF STRUCTURES SUCH AS A MANUFACTURED HOME OR A TINY HOME OR SOMETHING ON THE PROPERTY THAT'S NOT JUST A, YOU KNOW, THE, HOW YOU'VE DEFINED IT IN THIS DOCUMENT. SO FIRST WAS, SO THE FIRST QUESTION WAS, IS MINIMUM, WE, WE HAVEN'T, WE GOT MORE PUSHBACK. SO THERE IS NO MINIMUM. SO THERE'S, IF SOMEONE WANTS TO BUILD A 200 SQUARE FOOT, 80 OF THEY'RE, THEY'RE WELCOME TO. UM, THERE'S SOME MAXIMUM SIZES THAT ARE BASED ON THE SIZE OF THE HOUSE. UM, BUT THERE IS NO MINIMUM [00:40:01] THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, AND WE'VE NEVER REALLY RUN INTO A PROBLEM WITH THAT. UM, AND AS FAR AS OTHER TYPES OF CONSTRUCTION, SO THE WAY THE CODE WORKS IS THAT, UM, IF YOU CAN MEET THE INTER INTERN INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE BUILDING STANDARDS, WHICH STEVE CAN DISCUSS MORE IF YOU WANT TO, YOU CAN BUILD IT. SO WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, COMING OUT OF THE, A FACTORY OR BEING BUILT ON SITE, IF THERE IS A CERTIFICATION THAT HAS BEEN BUILT TO THOSE STANDARDS, IT CAN BE USED. SO ARE THERE MANUFACTURED HOMES AS AN EXAMPLE, THAT ARE BUILT TO THOSE STANDARDS? MADAM VICE MAYOR BY MAY, STEVE MERTIS, UH, DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT? UM, YES. UH, AND, AND WE HAVE TO, I THINK, TALK ABOUT, UH, THE WORDING HERE, RIGHT? MANUFACTURED HOMES ARE DIFFERENT FROM HUD MANUFACTURED HOMES. AND MANUFACTURED HOMES CAN BE EQUATED TO FACTORY BUILT HOMES. SO IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HOMES THAT ARE BUILT IN A FACTORY THAT ARE NOT FEDERALLY RE REGULATED UNDER THE HUD STATUTES, THEN YES, AS LONG AS THEY ARE A FACTORY BUILT HOME THAT IS BUILT UNDER THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING'S, UH, IRC COMPLIANCE PROGRAM, THAT IS A STRUCTURE THAT WE WOULD PERMIT TO BE BUILT AND LIVED IN, UH, WITHIN SEDONA . OKAY. AND THAT'S AVAILABLE. THEY EXIST AND THEY'RE AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE. THEY DO EXIST. WE'VE OFF, OFF, EXCUSE ME, ALSO BEEN IN CONSULTATION WITH A DOH FROM TIME TO TIME ABOUT THEIR RECIPROCAL PROGRAMS, UH, WITH OTHER STATES. SO THERE ARE POSSIBILITIES OF FACTORY BUILT HOMES THAT WHERE THE FACTORY IS, SAY, IN CALIFORNIA, AND THEY CAN APPLY FOR RECIPROCAL APPROVAL. SO CAN WE MAKE THAT INFORMATION AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, SO THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS AND ISN'T ALLOWABLE UNDER THIS REVISION. WE CAN, UM, BASICALLY THIS, NOTHING REALLY CHANGES UNDER THIS REVISION IN THE SENSE THAT YOU ARE ALWAYS ABLE TO BUILD A FACTORY BUILT HOME, UH, THAT WAS, UH, IRC COMPLIANT, EXCEPT WHEN PEOPLE TRY TO, AND THEN THEY GET TOLD THEY CAN'T. I'M SORRY. I'M NOT AWARE. WELL, THERE WAS THIS INSTANCE, IF YOU RECALL, LAST YEAR, WHERE SOMEBODY WAS DESPERATELY TRYING TO GET APPROVAL FOR A MANUFACTURED HOME AND JUST DIDN'T HAPPEN. SO THERE ARE, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TRIED TO GET APPROVALS FOR MANUFACTURED HOMES THAT MAY NOT BE IN A FACTORY THAT IS CERTIFIED BY THE A DOH. SO DOES THE STATE REQUIREMENT THAT IT IS FACTORY BUILT, THAT IT'S EITHER IN A FACTORY THAT'S, THAT IS UNDERNEATH THAT CERTIFIED PROGRAM FROM THE STATE, OR THEY DO HAVE THE, THE FACTORY AND THE APPLICANT HAS THE ALLOWANCE TO HIRE AN INSPECTOR AND HAVE THAT INSPECTOR WATCH THAT SPECIFIC BUILDING BE BUILT THROUGH THE PROCESS TO VERIFY IRC COMPLIANCE? SO THERE ARE, UH, SEVERAL, UH, A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT OPTIONS IN WHICH TO VERIFY IRC COMPLIANCE OF A FACTORY BUILT HOME. OKAY. BUT AS I RECALL, THIS GENTLEMAN HAD PROPERTY, WE WORKED ON THIS TOGETHER, GENTLEMAN HAD PROPERTY AND HE WANTED TO PUT IT ON THERE, AND HE COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING THAT MET THE STANDARDS. AND HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY PARTICULAR HOME IN MIND. HE JUST WANTED SOMETHING THAT WAS MANUFACTURED OR FACTORY BUILT. AND HE HAD A LOT OF DIFFICULTY WITH COMING UP WITH SOMETHING THAT, THAT COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT WOULD APPROVE. I DON'T THINK WE EVER GOT THERE EITHER. YES. AND I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT HIS DIFFICULTIES WERE. UM, AGAIN, IF IT WAS A FACT, I, IN MY APOLOGIES, BECAUSE I HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS QUITE OFTEN, UH, WITH APPLICANTS AND, UM, AND, AND MANY TIMES THE ISSUE IS THAT THE SAVINGS WEREN'T WHAT THEY EXPECTED. AND IF FACTOR BUILT HOME, ONCE THEY ADDED EVERYTHING THAT THEY WANTED TO PUT WITHIN THAT HOME, UM, THE, I'VE I'VE BEEN WITH DEVELOPERS WHO HAVE GONE LOOKED TOWARDS THE FACTORY BUILT HOME PROCESS, [00:45:02] UM, AND WERE AWARE OF BOTH OPTIONS AND ARE STILL LOOKING AT THOSE OPTIONS OF ACTUALLY HIRING A SPECIAL INSPECTOR OR FINDING A, A FACTORY, UH, THAT IS CERTIFIED BY A DOH OR THAT RECIPROCAL PROGRAM THAT I, I DISCUSSED EARLIER. UM, WE HAVE NEVER DENIED A HOME THAT WAS FACTORY BUILT OR SITE BUILT THAT WAS IRC COMPLIANT. I THINK THE QUESTION WAS COULDN'T FIND ONE THAT MET THE REQUIREMENTS. SO THAT'S WHY I ASKED THE QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER WE CAN PROVIDE GUIDANCE TO PEOPLE WHO WANNA GO DOWN THIS PATH TO HELP THEM TO SECURE SOMETHING THAT WOULD PASS. SURE. AND I THINK WE CAN LINK, LINK THAT WITH SOME OF OUR HOUSING INITIATIVES. AND, AND THEN MY SECOND QUESTION ABOUT THE MINIMUM IS IF WE'RE TRYING TO ENCOURAGE A, YOU KNOW, RENTALS, LONG TERM RENTALS SEEMS LIKE WE WOULD WANNA LOOK AT SOMETHING THAT WAS LIVABLE, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A MINIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT SOMEBODY COULD LIVE IN. AND HAVE YOU LOOKED AT ANY OTHER JURISDICTIONS WHERE THEY HAVE MINIMUMS? WE HAVEN'T, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT. OKAY. THAT IS THE DIRECTION OF COUNCIL. UM, AND, AND IF I MAY, UM, CARRIE DID IDENTIFY EARLIER THAT THE BUILDING CODES BASICALLY SET MINIMUMS, ALTHOUGH THERE IS NO MINIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE, THERE ARE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR A FULL WORKING, UH, KITCHEN OR KITCHEN THAT ALLOWS YOU TO PREPARE FOR FOOD, UH, FOR A FULL WORKING BATHROOM. UM, AND THEN SIZES BASED UPON THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE AND BEDROOMS AND ALL THAT GOOD STUFF. SO THERE ARE MINIMUMS MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS SET BY THE CODE THAT THEN KIND OF IDENTIFY WHAT THE, HOW SMALL A HOUSE COULD BE BUILT. OKAY. WELL MAYBE WE COULD TALK OFFLINE AND YOU COULD HELP ME TO ADD ALL, ALL THOSE MINIMUMS UP AND SEE WHAT WE GET. . YEAH, I WILL SAY THAT WHEN WE HAD THE A DU ORDINANCE A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, THERE WAS A MINIMUM IN THERE AND THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO BUILD, YOU KNOW, YOU END UP, YOU PUT A 400 SQUARE FOOT MINIMUM AND THEN SOMEONE COMES IN AND WANTS TO DO 375. SO YOU'RE ALWAYS GONNA GET SOMEONE WHO'S, UM, YOU KNOW, AND IT'S BASED ON THEY, THERE MIGHT BE TRYING TO GET SOMETHING IN A SMALL AREA ON THEIR LOT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO THERE'S JUST, YOU MIGHT BE THERE, THERE MAY BE SOME UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. BUT AS WE FURTHER DEFINE THIS, YOU CAN CONTINUE, YOU KNOW, SOME, ALL OF THESE CHANGES COME FROM US TALKING TO APPLICANTS, TALKING TO PROPER UNITS WHO ARE TRYING TO BUILD STUFF AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GONNA WORK FOR THEM. AND SO IF THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE THAT WE SEE IS A FIX, YOU KNOW, WE'LL CONTINUE TO WORK WITH JEANIE AND, UM, WITH, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THE PROCESS AND, AND SEE IF THERE'S OTHER THINGS WE CAN DO TO FURTHER ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT OF UNITS, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE DOING LONG-TERM RENTALS. AND IS THERE A REASON THAT WE DON'T ALLOW FOR TINY HOMES? WE DO. YOU CAN BUILD A TINY HOME AS AN A DU. OH. SO IT WOULD JUST HAVE TO BE, AGAIN, IF IT MEETS IRC REQUIREMENTS, YOU CAN BUILD IT. SO, UM, OFTEN PEOPLE WANT SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT BIGGER. IF, IF I MIGHT AGAIN JUMP IN A LITTLE BIT HERE. UH, AGAIN, WE'RE LOOKING AT THE WORDING, RIGHT? UH, TINY HOME FOR SOME PEOPLE MAY MEAN A TINY HOME ON WHEELS. I GET WHY YOU DON'T WANNA DO THAT. AND SO, SO A TINY HOME IN AND OF ITSELF, WHICH IS AN IRC COMPLIANT STRUCTURE, WHICH IS EITHER SITE BUILT OR FACTORY BUILT, IS DEFINITELY PERMITTED WITHIN THE CITY OF SEDONA. AND IN FACT, WE HAVE ADOPTED A APPENDIX QUEUE OF THE IRC, WHICH ALLOWS ADDITIONAL, UH, ALLOWANCES FOR TINY HOMES, WHICH IS DEFINED AS A, A HOUSE WHICH IS 400 SQUARE FOOT OR LESS. OKAY. THANKS. OKAY, KATHY AND THEN BRIAN. I'M TRYING TO THINK, I THINK MOST OF MY QUESTIONS WERE ANSWERED IN, IN THE EXCHANGE THAT THAT JUST OCCURRED. UM, IT JUST TWO QUICK FOLLOW UPS REAL REALISTICALLY, OR WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE WITH THE, WITH THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE FULL BATHROOM FOR AT LEAST A KITCHENETTE BALLPARK, WHAT WOULD BE THE SMALLEST THAT COULD REASONABLY, HOW MANY SQUARE FEET WOULD IT TAKE TO ACCOMPLISH THOSE THINGS? BALLPARK, OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, ABOUT 200 SQUARE FEET. OKAY. OKAY. AND THE OTHER FOLLOW UP QUESTION THAT I HAVE IS ON A TINY HOME THAT IS ON WHEELS, ARE THERE CASES WHERE A TINY HOME [00:50:01] BUILT TO BE A MOBILE UNIT LIKE THAT IS TAKEN OFF THAT AND PERMANENTLY AFFIXED TO THE LAND THAT WOULD BE COMPLIANT? WELL, TINY HOME ON WHEELS ARE ACTUALLY CERTIFIED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION. THEY, SO WE NEVER BE COMPLIANT. THERE ARE POSSIBLY WAYS OF DECONSTRUCTING TO A POINT WHERE IT CAN BE INSPECTED TO VERIFY COMPLIANCE WITH THE IRC. UH, WE DO HAVE TINY HOMES THAT ARE FACTORY BUILT THAT ARE PUT ON A CHASSIS JUST FOR THE TRANSPORTATION. OKAY. AND THEN PLACED ON A FOUNDATION. SO, UM, UH, BUT THE, AN ACTUAL TINY HOME ON WHEELS THAT HAVE, THAT HAS BEEN CERTIFIED BY THE DOT, UH, IS NOT IRC COMPLIANT. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANKS BRIAN. THANK YOU MAYOR. UH, PICKING UP ON THE VICE MAYOR'S QUESTIONS AROUND MANUFACTURED HOMES, I'M CONFUSED BECAUSE WHEN I LOOK ON PACKET PAGE 69 MM-HMM. AT 3.4 POINT D THREE PROPOSED LETTER B, IT SAYS THAT MOBILE AND MANUFACTURED HOMES SHALL NOT BE USED AS ADUS. SO EITHER SOMETHING'S GRAMMATICALLY WRONG ABOUT THE WAY THAT'S WRITTEN, OR THERE'S A CONFLICT HERE. SO THERE'S A DEFINITION ISSUE THERE. UM, THE COLLOQUIAL USE OF MANUFACTURED REFERS TO, YOU KNOW, IN GENERAL, THE GENERAL PUBLIC, IF THEY SAY MANUFACTURED, THEY'RE OFTEN REFERRING TO WHAT STEVE WAS REFERRING TO EARLIER AS FACTORY BUILD BUILDINGS. THINGS THAT ARE BUILT IN A FACTORY AND SHIPPED HERE AND INSTALLED. BUT THEY ARE IRC COMPLIANT. OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE WOULD SAY A MOBILE AND MANUFACTURED HOME WOULD BE THE ONES THAT MEET THAT DIFFERENT STANDARD. SO THERE'S THE, OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE DEFINITION OF WHAT THOSE ARE. AND THEN THE WAY THAT IT'S USED IN PUBLIC ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. AND SO WE DEAL WITH THAT ON A REGULAR BASIS. OKAY. BUT THAT STILL LEAVES US CONFUSING FOR SOMEBODY WHO PICKS THIS UP COLD LIKE I DID. AND THEN THEY CALL AND WE ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. AND SO WE JUST TALK ABOUT WHAT THE IRC COMPLIANCE REQUIREMENTS ARE. I, I MEAN, BUT WHY NOT GET THIS MADE CLEAR SO THAT SOMEBODY DOESN'T READ THIS AND GO, OH, WELL, NUTS, I CAN'T DO THIS AND GIVES UP ON IT. I DON'T KNOW WHY, WHY ALLOW IT TO BE IN CONFLICT OR UNCLEAR. COULD, CAN I ADDRESS HIS POINT? GO AHEAD KATHY. THANK YOU. IF IT WOULD, WOULD ADDING JUST THE WORDS THAT ARE NOT IR, WHAT IS IRC COMPLIANT? INSERTING THOSE WORDS IN THERE, WOULD THAT FIX THAT CONCERN? SURE. OKAY. IS THAT SOMETHING, CARRIE, THAT YOU THINK MIGHT WORK? SHE'S A QUESTION, NOT A COMMENT. , IF YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT BY NOW, , THERE'S NO HOPE. SO AFTER TRAVEL TRAILERS AND RECREATIONAL VEHICLES THAT ARE NOT, IRC COMPLIANT SHALL NOT BE USED AS ADUS. I'M JUST LOOKING UP SOMETHING REAL QUICK. I'M NOT IGNORING YOU. SORRY. SHE HAS TO LOOK SOMETHING UP REAL QUICK. SURE. YEAH, I THINK, I THINK MAYOR AND COUNCIL, WE WANNA REVIEW SOME OF THE DEFINITIONS AND MAKE SURE AT LEAST I WOULD WANT TO REVIEW SOME OF THE DEFINITION, MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T CAUSE OTHER ISSUES THAT WE DON'T FORESEE RIGHT NOW. BUT WE COULD DO THAT AS WE CONTINUE THROUGH THIS, THIS, UH, AGENDA ITEM. YEAH. SO OUR CODE DEFINES MANUFACTURED HOME AS A STRUCTURE BUILT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE NATIONAL MANUFACTURED HOME CONSTRUCTION AND SAFETY STANDARDS ACT OF 1974 AND THE TITLE OF THE HOUSING. YEAH. SO IT, WE CAN, YES, WE CAN PROVIDE SOME CLARIFICATION IN THAT. THANK YOU. YES, THANK YOU. SO BRIAN, KATHY PICKED UP FROM WHERE YOU WERE, BUT WERE YOU DONE? I THINK THERE'S JUST ONE OTHER POINT OF CLARIFICATION THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. IT WAS ANSWERED. THIS QUESTION WAS ASKED BY MYSELF AND COUNCILOR FURMAN THAT THE DEFINITION OF PRIMARY RESIDENCE AS SHOWN ON PAGE PACKET, PAGE 68, THAT ALL FOUR CONDITIONS ARE REQUIRED. NOT JUST THAT. IT'S ONE OF THOSE. SO THAT SEEMS LIKE THAT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE CLARIFICATION TO ALSO ADD. AGAIN, THAT'S PACKET, PAGE 68, THE DEFINITION OF PRIMARY RESIDENCE, KIND OF AT THE LOWER THIRD OF THE PAGE, THERE'S FOUR CONDITIONS AND ACCORDING TO KURT, ALL FOUR MUST BE MET. OKAY. QUESTION WHERE, SO THAT LANGUAGE THOUGH, THAT'S IN SORT OF THE AGENDA BILL LANGUAGE, BUT WHERE YOU WOULD WANNA SEE THAT ACTUALLY PUT INTO THE, NOT IN THE AGENDA BILL. YOU'D WANNA SEE THAT, SORRY. WHEREVER IT IS ACTUALLY IN WHAT BECOMES THE LDC, THAT'S WHERE THE CLARIFICATION'S NEEDED. I JUST HAPPEN TO HAVE COMMENTED ON IT IN PREPARATION FOR [00:55:01] TODAY. IT'S ON PACKAGE PAGE 71. 71 71. THANK YOU. OKAY. OKAY. AND THAT'S IT FOR ME, MAYOR. THANK YOU. OKAY, PETE. THANK YOU MAYOR. CARRIE, MY QUESTION IS JUST AIMED AT TRACKING THE USE OF THESE THINGS LONG TERM AND IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WE'VE DONE TO BUILD INTO THE DATABASE OR WE SHOULD DO THAT WON'T MAKE A BIG MASTER'S THESIS PROJECT OF TRACKING THIS TWO, THREE YEARS, FIVE YEARS DOWN THE ROAD OF HOW MANY OF THESE HAVE BEEN BUILT AND HOW MANY OF THESE HAVE BEEN, UH, DESIGNATED FOR SHORT TERM RENTALS? YEAH, SO WE CAN, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT INTERNALLY. WE'LL NEED TO BE WORKING WITH THERESA ARTHUR, THE SHORT TERM RENTAL SPECIALIST RIGHT NOW. SHE HAS SOME, SOME THINGS THAT TRIGGER, UH, WHERE SHE'LL TRIGGER A REVIEW OF BY US, WHERE SHE'LL SEND IT, HEY, THIS LOOKS A LITTLE SUSPICIOUS. CAN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT IT? DOESN'T MEET YOUR DEFINITIONS. AND SO WE'LL JUST HAVE TO REFINE THAT A LITTLE MORE AS TO WHAT, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT ISSUING SHORT-TERM RENTAL PERMITS ON THINGS THAT SHOULD NOT BE SHORT-TERM RENTALS. SO OTHER THAN THAT, IF SOMEONE COMES TO YOU AND THROUGH THE PROCESS AND BUILDS AN A DU MM-HMM, LATER ON, SHE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A LIST OF ADDRESSES WHERE THEY WENT AND THEN PHYSICALLY GO THROUGH AND LOOK AT HER DATABASE. IS IS THERE A WAY TO MAKE THIS A LITTLE BIT EASIER? BECAUSE I GUARANTEE YOU THIS QUESTION WILL BE ASKED. MM-HMM, 2, 3, 4, 5 YEARS FROM NOW. SO WITH OUR CURRENT COMPUTER SYSTEMS, IT'S, IT IS A LITTLE CUMBERSOME. WE'RE HOPING THAT WITH THE NEW ERP SYSTEM THAT I THINK ANDY'S LEADING THE CHARGE TO GET THAT UP AND RUNNING. IT WOULD BE A EASIER TO TRACK THINGS LIKE THIS ON A PARCEL. THAT SOUND LIKE A REASONABLE THING, ANDY, TO PUT ON SOMEONE'S TO-DO LIST, UH, AS WE GO THROUGH THE ERP. STEVE, I'M LOOKING AT YOU , YOU MENTIONED ANDY. SO I WAS GONNA, WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE THIS. UM, WANTING TO INCLUDE THOSE TYPES OF THINGS IN OUR ERP. THANK YOU MAYOR. OKAY, MELISSA? SURE. SO, SO JUST, UM, A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. SO WHEN I BUILD AN A DU AND IT'S ON MY PROPERTY, DOES IT HAVE A SEPARATE ADDRESS? LIKE IF SOMEONE IS LIVING THERE LONG TERM, DO THEY USE THE SAME ADDRESS AS THE PRIMARY RESIDENCE AND GOD HELP AMAZON? MM-HMM. , UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PRO OUR, THE CITY POLICY IS ONE PARCEL, ONE ADDRESS. UM, OFTEN PROPERTY OWNERS WILL SAY, YOU KNOW, UNIT B OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT THAT WOULD BE UP TO THEM. THE CITY WILL JUST ASSIGN IT ONE ADDRESS. SO THERE WOULDN'T BE OFFICIAL POSTAL CODES, BASICALLY. RIGHT. THEY'RE JUST MONIKERS THAT THE OWNER HAS ASSIGNED. YEAH. OKAY. SO MY SECOND QUESTION, UM, JUST PERCOLATING AROUND IN MY BRAIN, WE, WE TALKED ABOUT SIZE, WE TALKED ABOUT NUMBER OF PEOPLE WITH, WITH UM, BEDROOMS. UM, DO WE EVER ENFORCE ANY OF THAT? DO WE EVER CHECK INTO ANY OF THAT? I MEAN, IF, IF I CREATE AN A DU THAT'S ONE BEDROOM AND YOU'RE ASSUMING THAT A ONE BEDROOM IS, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY, WE'LL WE'LL SAY THREE 'CAUSE SOMEONE'S LIVING IN THE SLEEPING ON THE COUCH. SO IF IT'S A STR FOR INSTANCE, OR EVEN A LONG TERM RENTAL, THERE'S REALLY NOTHING STOPPING ANYONE FROM PUTTING SIX PEOPLE IN A ONE BEDROOM. IS IS THAT A FAIRLY ACCURATE ASSESSMENT? UNLESS SOMEONE COMPLAINS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO KNOW THAT IT'S NOT MEETING THE HABITATION IS NOT MEETING THE DESIRED UM, RULES. IS THAT CORRECT? YEAH, I MEAN WE, WE WOULD COUNT ANY BEDROOMS IN AN A DU TOWARDS THE TOTAL BEDROOMS ON THE PROPERTY TO DETERMINE PARKING REQUIREMENTS. BUT WE DON'T GET INTO HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE SLEEPING, SLEEPING THERE. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU MAYOR. UM, HOPEFULLY I'M NOT GETTING OVERLY WORRIED HERE, BUT COUNCILOR DUNN JUST GAVE ME A COLD CHILL ASKING THE, UH, ADDRESS QUESTION. 'CAUSE I'M THINKING ABOUT IT FROM, UH, A FRAUD IDENTITY THEFT PERSPECTIVE. I'M THINKING ABOUT IT FROM A SMALL BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE OF WHICH I HAVE INTIMATE EXPERIENCE WITH AND REALLY WONDERING WHETHER WE NEED THE, UH, POST OFFICE TO WEIGH IN ON WHETHER THEY WOULD RECOGNIZE A SECONDARY ADDRESS FOR THE PARCEL OR WHETHER WE SHOULD BE, OR WHETHER THE POST OFFICE SHOULD BE NOT ALLOWING FOR THERE TO BE A [01:00:01] UNIT. BE, UM, AGAIN, I DON'T WANNA GO DOWN A A RABBIT HOLE HERE, BUT I HAVE TOO MUCH EXPERIENCE WITH FRAUD AND IN DEALING WITH THAT KIND OF STUFF. UH, BOTH FROM, WELL FROM AN EMPLOYEE STANDPOINT AND A MARKETING STANDPOINT, BOTH. SO I THINK IT'S A GREAT QUESTION THAT COUNSELOR DUNN ASKED AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S A, A QUESTION MARK THERE, AND I DON'T WANNA HOLD THIS UP TO GET THAT QUESTION ANSWERED, BUT IT FEELS LIKE SOMETHING THAT NEEDS FURTHER LOOKING INTO. SO WE GENERALLY DEAL WITH IT MORE WITH THE UTILITY COMPANIES 'CAUSE WE DO REQUIRE THAT ALL THE UTILITIES BE CONNECTED TO THE SAME SERVICE. AND SO OFTENTIMES PEOPLE WILL CALL US AND THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL SAY, I NEED A PERMIT TO GET A SECOND SERVICE FOR WHEN WE SAY NO. AND SO THE UTILITY COMPANIES ARE ON TOP OF THAT AS WELL. SO THEY WILL OR THEY WILL NOT GRANT, THEY WILL NOT GRANT BECAUSE YOU'VE TOLD THEM NOT TO BECAUSE, BECAUSE OUR CODE SAYS THAT, UM, ALL UTILITIES HAVE TO BE CONNECTED TO A SINGLE SERVICE FOR THE PROPERTY. SO THE, THE A DU, THE GUEST HOUSE DOESN'T GET ITS OWN SERVICE. IF I CAN TAG ON BRIAN YEP. GO. AND THEN YOU CAN GO TO YOUR NEXT ONE. NOPE. NOPE. THAT WAS IT. SO THE ISSUE THAT I SEE THEN IS IF THERE'S ONLY ONE METER THAT'S METERING ALL THE ADUS PLUS THE PRIMARY, THERE'S ONLY ONE METER, THEN IT'S UP TO THE OWNER TO TRY AND DIVIDE UP HOW MUCH USAGE THERE IS BETWEEN ALL THE VARIOUS UNITS THAT ARE NOT THE PRIMARY UNIT. IS THAT, AM I CORRECT IN UNDERSTANDING THAT IT'S, IT'S A SINGLE FAMILY PROPERTY. IT HAS ONE UNIT AND ONE GUEST UNIT. THEY CAN FIGURE THAT OUT. THANK YOU. OKAY. 'CAUSE OF THE QUESTION IN MIND, WHAT ANSWERED ABOUT THE SECURITY ISSUES ALSO, UM, AND EMERGENCY RESPONSES? WELL, WE DIDN'T REALLY TOUCH ON EMERGENCY RESPONSE. SO, UH, IF, HOW WOULD SEDONA FIRE OR EVEN SEDONA POLICE KNOW WHERE THEY'RE GOING? WOULD THEY BE ACTUALLY BE REGISTERED IN A AND B? NO, THEY JUST, THE POST CODE, I MEAN THAT'S THE STANDARD THAT WE'VE USED FOR MANY YEARS. WE HAVEN'T HEARD FROM THEM THAT WE NEED TO MAKE A CHANGE. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALRIGHT. UH, I HAVE A QUESTION ON DIFFERENT ON ADU YEAH. BEFORE WE DO THE, UH, PUBLIC HEARING. SURE. UM, CARRIE, I'M JUST THE A THIS IS EVERYTHING GOING FORWARD. CAN YOU, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE, I DON'T KNOW. TELL ME WHO THE RIGHT PERSON IS. DO DO WE HAVE A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF NONCOMPLIANT ADUS CURRENTLY IN THE CITY? WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY NON-COMPLIANT? A THIS WE DON'T, WE DON'T, THIS IS ABOUT BUILDING GOING FORWARD AND I GUESS I'M WONDERING IF THERE'S ANYTHING IN HERE THAT WOULD BRING SOMETHING THAT MAY NOT BE COMPLIANT INTO COMPLIANCE. SO WE, OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS DO ADDRESS THE FULL KITCHENS AND ADUS THAT OFTEN GET ADDED AFTER FINAL INSPECTIONS HAPPEN. SO, UM, ANY CODE ENFORCEMENT CASES ON THAT WOULD GO AWAY AT THIS POINT IF THEY, YOU KNOW, IF THEY COME IN UNDER THE NEW A DU OKAY. ALLOWANCES. AND SO GENERALLY THAT, THAT'S THE ISSUE WE RUN INTO IN GUEST HOUSES IS FULL KITCHENS BEING ADDED AFTER FINAL INSPECTION. OKAY. OTHER THAN THAT, IT DOESN'T ADDRESS ANY OF NON-COMPLIANCE ISSUES. RIGHT. NO, I MEAN THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE ONE SIGNIFICANT CHANGE. SO THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY, ONLY THING. THANK YOU. MM-HMM. . OKAY. VICE MAYOR, ANYTHING? YEAH, THERE'S NOTHING IN HERE JUST BECAUSE I'VE GOTTEN QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS, SO I WANT IT ON THE RECORD THAT PROHIBITS PEOPLE, EVEN THOUGH WE'VE CHANGED THE, THE NAME WE'VE ELIMINATED GUEST QUARTERS AND WE'VE REDEFINED IT AS ADUS, BUT THEY DON'T REQUIRE A KITCHEN. YOU CAN HA SO RIGHT. TO BE A HABITABLE SPACE UNDER THE BUILDING CODE. AND STEVE CAN SHOOT ME DAGGERS IF I'M WRONG. YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING TO PREPARE FOOD. BUT THE KITCHEN APP KITCHENETTE, YEAH. THAT WOULD COUNT FOR THAT. SO AN EXISTING GUEST QUARTER DOES NOT HAVE TO UPGRADE? NO. OKAY. AND SOMEBODY CAN STILL BUILD A GUEST QUARTER WITH A KITCHENETTE. YES. BUT IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED AN A DU UNDER THE NEW CODE, BUT IT WOULDN'T HAVE TO HAVE A KITCHEN. NO, IT SAYS IT FULL KITCHEN AND NOW IT SAYS IT MAY HAVE A RIGHT. A FULL KITCHEN. SO IT JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WAS CLEARED. EVERYBODY. OKAY. LET'S OPEN. MAY I JUST A FOLLOW UP CLARIFICATION OF THAT. THANK YOU. UH, CARRIE. SO IF SOMEBODY OUT THERE HAS A KITCHENETTE GUEST QUARTERS MM-HMM. AND THEY'VE ALREADY UNBEKNOWNST TO US, MADE IT INTO A KITCHEN. MM-HMM. , ARE WE OFFERING NOW THEM NOW A PATH TO DECLARE IT IN A DU AND TO COME FORTH AND BE WHOLESOME WITH US? OR WHAT, WHAT, [01:05:01] WHAT, WHAT ARE WE DOING FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE PLACES THAT MIGHT BE IN NON-COMPLIANT CURRENTLY? SO IF THEY HAVE ILLEGALLY ADDED A KITCHEN, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING? YES. YEAH. SO IF THEY AGREED TO COME IN UNDER THE NEW A DU RULES, THEY WOULD BE ALLOWED TO, TO KEEP THEIR KITCHEN, BUT THEN THE RENTAL RULES WOULD THEN APPLY TO THEM WITHOUT PENALTY. YEAH. THANK YOU MAYOR. OKAY. ALRIGHT. LET'S OPEN A PUBLIC HEARING. I HAVE THREE COURT, FOUR CARDS. FOUR CARDS HERE. UH, I'LL CALL YOUR NAME, PLEASE STAND UP TO THE, UH, PODIUM. START WITH YOUR, UH, AGAIN, YOUR NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE. UH, TREVOR GRECO. YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES. YOU, YOU SEE THE CLOCK UP ON THE WALL. SO THANK, THANK YOU MAYOR VICE. MAYOR COUNCILORS, THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. MY NAME'S TREVOR GRECO. I'M A CIVIL ENGINEER LICENSED IN COLORADO AND, UM, CALIFORNIA. I'M CURRENTLY A RESIDENT OF DENVER, BUT WITH MY PARTNER MARIE BENEDICTS. WE OWN TWO PROPERTIES HERE IN SEDONA AND WEST SEDONA THAT ARE LONG-TERM RENTALS, UM, TO A, UM, BUSINESS OWNER AND THEN A LOCAL FAMILY THAT'S IN THE RESTAURANT BUSINESS THAT THEY BOTH ARE IN THE ECONOMY OF, UH, SEDONA. SO WE'VE CONSIDERED ADUS ON OUR PROPERTIES, UM, SEVERAL TIMES OVER THE YEARS. UM, AND THERE'S A FEW REASONS THAT WE HAVE NOT, UM, DONE THEM. AND I'LL GO THROUGH SOME OF THAT TODAY. AND THEN THERE'S ALSO IN YOUR PACKET A WRITTEN RESPONSE, OR EXCUSE ME, A WRITTEN LETTER THAT WE COVERED SOME OF THAT. UM, SO WE REALLY APPRECIATE THE COUNCIL'S CONCERN ON THE LACK OF MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN SEDONA, AND THAT YOU WOULD SEE ADDITIONAL UNITS WANNA SEE MORE ADDITIONAL UNITS OF, UH, AFFORDABLE HOUSING. AND IT'S HELPFUL TO SEE YOU HERE TODAY DISCUSSING THIS. UM, AND WE ARE SUPPORTIVE OF THE CHANGES THAT ARE BEFORE YOU. BUT IN REALITY, YOU NEED TO ASK YOUR STAFF TO BE MORE AGGRESSIVE IF YOU WANT TO SEE A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE GOING FORWARD OF MORE A DU HOUSES BUILT. UM, SO CURRENTLY THERE'S SEVERAL UNNECESSARY OBSTACLES TO BUILD AN A DU, WHICH MAKE THEM BASICALLY NOT COST EFFECTIVE AN OPTION, UM, I'LL, I'LL LEAVE THIS AS A HANDOUT THAT FOR THE COUNCIL THAT I JUST PULLED FROM ZILLOW, THE MLS, THERE'S A 10 PROPERTIES THAT WERE SOLD IN THE LAST 12 MONTHS IN SEDONA FOR, UM, LESS THAN 500 K. THEY RANGE ROUGHLY FROM THREE 40 TO TWO, UH, 500 K. EACH OF THOSE COMES WITH A, A PIECE OF LAND AS WELL AS A HOME 12 TO 1400 SQUARE FEET. NOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH ADUS IS ONLY 750 FEET SQUARE FEET MAX FOR THE MOST PART, UNLESS YOU HAVE A VERY LARGE PRIMARY HOME. UM, AND TODAY'S CONSTRUCTION COSTS FOR THAT SITE BUILT IRC BUILDING, YOU'RE TALKING SOMEWHERE IN THE 250 TO 400,000 DEPENDING ON YOUR FINISHES. UM, SO AS AN INVESTOR LIKE OURSELVES, UM, IT REALLY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR US TO BUILD AN A DU, UM, ON AN EXISTING PARCEL, UM, WHEN WE CAN ACTUALLY SIMILARLY GET ANOTHER PARCEL FOR, UM, UPWARDS OF $500,000 ON A NEW PARCEL. SO YOU, THERE ISN'T THIS INCENTIVE TO BUILD THESE SMALLER UNITS ON AN EXISTING PARCEL. UM, IN ADDITION TO, UM, THERE ARE A LOT OF THE SMALLER PARCELS ON WITHIN THE CITY WITH CURRENT SETBACK REQUIREMENTS FOR A DU, YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO ACTUALLY FIT ONE IN. UM, SO WHAT ALL THIS MEANS IS THAT THERE'S, JUST FINISH YOUR COMMENT, FINISH YOUR SENTENCE. OH, THANKS. UM, SO CURRENTLY WE'RE NOT EXPECTING TO SEE MANY ADUS, UM, BUILT IN SEDONA, UM, TO PROVIDE SOME OF MORE, MORE AFFORDABLE UNITS. UM, WE JUST URGE YOU TO, TO DO SOME MORE SIGNIFICANT, UM, CHANGES. AND IF I COULD JUST ASK FROM THE CONFUSION FROM OUR STANDPOINT. JUST, I, YOU HAVE TO FINISH YOUR SENTENCE THOUGH. THANK YOU. OKAY. AND THEN WE, UH, IS THAT MARIE BENEDICT? YEAH. OKAY. HARD TO READ ABOUT THAT HANDWRITING. NO PROBLEM. SO, SAME THING, CITY OF RESIDENCE AND YOUR NAME. OKAY. THANK YOU MAYOR. VICE MAYOR, COUNSELORS. THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. I'M MARIE BENEDICTS, CURRENTLY A RESIDENT OF DENVER. TOGETHER WITH TREVOR. WE'RE PROPERTY OWNERS OF TWO PROPERTIES HERE, BOTH LONG TERM RENTALS TO LOCAL PEOPLE IN THE ECONOMY. WE HAVE CONSIDERED BUILDING AN A DU ON OUR PROPERTIES, BUT WE'VE ENCOUNTERED OBSTACLES AND HIGH COSTS, WHICH HAVE HELD US BACK. WE DON'T BELIEVE MANY ADUS ARE BEING BUILT IN SEDONA TODAY FOR [01:10:01] THOSE SAME REASONS. THIS IS A SHAME. I THINK STONE NEEDS ADDITIONAL HOUSING OPTIONS, ESPECIALLY AT THE LOWER RENTS THAT AN A DU COULD AFFORD. UM, I UNDERSTAND THAT SEDONAS PLANNING OFFICE DOES NOT KNOW HOW MANY ADUS THAT HAVE BEEN BUILT IN THE LAST 10 TO 15 YEARS. THAT LEAVES YOU CITY COUNCIL KINDA MANEUVERING IN THE DARK AS TO WHETHER ADUS WORK AS A TOOL TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL HOUSING UNITS OR IF IT'S A MISSED OPPORTUNITY, AND THAT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO DO MUCH MORE. I LEARNED FROM PLANNING STAFF THAT UP TO 20 UNITS WERE BUILT IN THE SEVEN YEARS BETWEEN 2010 AND 2016. SO THAT WOULD BE ABOUT THREE PER YEAR. SINCE CONSTRUCTION COSTS HAVE SOARED SINCE, I WOULD EXPECT FEWER ADUS ARE BEING BUILT NOW. UH, YOU PROBABLY KNOW THE MANAGEMENT SAYING WHAT GETS MEASURED GETS DONE. SO I APPRECIATE YOU ASKING STAFF TODAY TO TRACK UNITS. UM, WE BELIEVE A ADUS ARE A BIG MISSED OPPORTUNITY. WE URGE YOU TO DO MORE TO MAKE ADUS MORE AFFORDABLE TO BUILD. THE BIGGEST SINGLE CHANGE YOU COULD MAKE WOULD BE TO ALLOW MANUFACTURED HOMES ON A D UH, AS ADUS IN ZONING DISTRICTS WHERE MANUFACTURED HOMES ARE ALREADY ALLOWED FOR THE MAIN DWELLING ON THE PROPERTY. AS THE CURRENT CODE CURRENTLY IS WRITTEN, REQUIRING A SITE BUILT A DU WHERE THE MAIN DWELLING CAN BE A MANUFACTURED HOME IS AN UNNECESSARY HARDSHIP AND INCONSISTENT WITH ADOPTED ZONING. REMOVING THIS OBSTACLE COULD SAVE ABOUT $150,000 ON THE CONSTRUCTION COST OF AN A DU. BRINGING COSTS DOWN TO BELOW $200,000 INSTEAD OF TWO 50 TO 400,000 IS FEDERAL FOOTING. UH, THIS IS A MAP OF ZONING THAT ALLOWS MANUFACTURED HOMES, WHICH TELLS ME THAT THERE IS A DEFINITION OF MANUFACTURED HOMES, WHICH IS DIFFERENT FROM THE ONE THAT, UM, PLANNING STAFF JUST SHARED. UH, SO I THINK WE NEED TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THAT. UM, IF YOU WANTED TO HAVE AN EVEN BIGGER IMPACT ON THE NUMBER OF ADUS THAT ARE BEING BUILT EACH YEAR, YOU COULD CONSIDER ALLOWING MANUFACTURED HOMES AS ADUS ON OTHER PARCELS AS WELL THAT ARE, UH, ZONED FOR SINGLE FAMILY ZONING. UM, THIS MAP SUGGESTS THAT ABOUT 10% OF LOTS IN SEDONA TODAY ARE, UM, ALLOWABLE FOR MANUFACTURED HOMES. UH, OBVIOUSLY IF YOU WENT FURTHER THAN THAT, YOU WOULD GET MORE ADUS. UH, OUR WRITTEN FEEDBACK SUGGESTS FOUR OTHER KEY CHANGES THAT YOU COULD MAKE TO ADUS TO MAKE THEM LESS DIFFICULT AND COST PROHIBITIVE TO BUILD. ADUS CAN PLAY A ROLE IN MEETING LOWER COST HOUSING IN SEDONA, AND WE URGE YOU TO DO MORE TO HELP MORE ADUS BE BUILT, UH, MORE THAN WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED TODAY. WE'RE HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE FROM OUR LETTER. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OKAY, THANK YOU MARIE. NEXT STEP WOULD BE TERRY, UH, GREGORY SHOP, FOLLOWED BY SEAN SMITH. UM, MY NAME IS TERRY GREGORY. MY HUSBAND IS DWAYNE GREGORY. UH, WE'VE BEEN RESIDENTS IN SEDONA FOR OVER 20 YEARS, AND WE ARE SUPPORTING THE, UM, PROPOSED LLDC, UM, CHANGES IN INITIATIVES THAT YOU ARE, UM, PROPOSING. BUT, UM, AS PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED, UM, WE FEEL LIKE IT CAN GO A LITTLE, A LITTLE FARTHER. UM, I DID SEND, UH, MESSAGE OR EMAILS TO THE COUNCIL OR MAYOR AND, UM, THE MAYOR AS WELL, AND JUST PROPOSING TO ADOPT SOME OF THE, THE HOUSING BILL. 27 20 SETBACKS ON ACCESSORY DWELLINGS. UH, THAT, UH, IS FIVE FEET OR MORE FROM THE PROPERTY LINE. THIS WILL ALLOW ZONING DEPARTMENT TO WORK WITH HOMEOWNERS TO BEST SITE IN AN A DU STRUCTURE ON THE PROPERTY, AS WELL AS IT RELATES TO OTHER STRUCTURES ON THE PROPERTY. UM, AS WELL AS SEDONA HAS A LOT OF UNIQUE LOTS, UH, ZONING ALREADY HAS, UM, A PLACE, UH, UM, WITH UNOCCUPIED, UM, STRUCTURES. UH, THERE IS AN ORDINANCE FOR A MINIMUM OF FIVE FEET. SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A BIG HURDLE TO OVERCOME, UM, BECAUSE IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO PLACE TWO STRUCTURES ON A PARCEL, UH, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, A POSSIBLE CONSIDERATION, UM, TO CONSIDER, UH, THAT THE STATE IS IS OFFERING UP IN THEIR NEW BILL. UH, PERMITTING COSTS ARE VERY EXPENSIVE IN SEDONA. A REDUCTION IN PERMITTING COSTS SHOULD STRONGLY BE CONSIDERED AND EVALUATE, UH, SO THAT ADUS ARE AFFORDABLE TO BUILD. THIS WILL HELP MAKE THE PROGRAM MORE SUCCESSFUL AND OPEN TO MORE RESIDENTS. UM, ALSO, RETRO PERMITTING SHOULD BE CONSIDERED FOR ADUS THAT DO NOT, UM, SEEK TO GET INITIAL PERMITTING FOR BUILDING DUE TO THE EXCESSIVE HIGH COST RETRO PERMIT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED WITHOUT THE STEEP PENALTIES AND EXIST THAT [01:15:01] EXIST UNDER THE CURRENT CODE. THIS ALLOWS IN A REASONABLE PATH FOR HOMEOWNERS TO BECOME COMPLIANT WITH THE CITY CODE WITHOUT BEING PENALIZED, CAUSING FINANCIAL HARDSHIP AND, AND OR A STRUCTURE BEING REMOVED. UM, AND THIS IS, UH, THERE ARE GRANT PROGRAMS THAT ARE AVAILABLE. UM, CALIFORNIA'S DOING SOME OF THIS AND, UM, THEY'RE OFFERING, THE STATE IS OFFERING $40,000 FOR PEOPLE BUILDING ADUS. UM, THERE ARE PROGRAMS OUT THERE AND CERTAINLY, UM, SEDONA HAS AL ALREADY ADOPTED THE INCENTIVE PROGRAM TO CONVERT SHORT TERM RENTALS TO LONG-TERM RENTALS. AND THIS MONEY COULD BE USED IN A POSITIVE WAY TO HELP PEOPLE THAT ARE IN, UH, THAT HAVE BEEN HERE FOR A WHILE TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO BE ABLE TO BUILD AN A DU. THANK YOU. SO THANK YOU. OKAY. SEAN SMITH WOULD BE LAST, IF THERE'S ANYONE ELSE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK FOR THE LETTER CARD NOW, UH, OR WE'LL BE CLOSING OUT THIS, THE, UH, UH, PUBLIC HEARING AFTER SEAN. THANK YOU, VICE MAYOR OF CITY COUNCIL AND STAFF. UH, MY NAME IS SEAN SMITH. I'M A SEDONA RESIDENT, AND I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THE ZONING CHANGE POSSIBILITY OR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CHANGE POSSIBILITIES TO FACILITATE FULL USE OF THE NEW HYBRID ZONE THAT WE SAW PUT IN AROUND EIGHT NINE A IN POCKETS WHERE IT WAS POTENTIALLY AN OPPORTUNITY TO, UH, DEVELOP KIND OF MORE TINY HOME MINI PLAN AREA DEVELOPMENTS. SO IF YOU, WE HAVE MINIMUM LOT SIZES, WE HAVE SETBACKS, WE HAVE OTHER RESTRICTIONS THAT KIND OF PROHIBIT THE ABILITY TO DEVELOP, UH, A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT SHORT PLATS WITH A TINY HOME ON IT. SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO, IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT AT SOME POINT TO KIND OF HELP FOSTER THE MISSING MIDDLE TYPE HOUSING THAT WORKERS ARE GONNA NEED. HOME AFFORDABILITY IS THE KEY THING. WE'VE HEARD ABOUT THE COST TO DEVELOP ADUS AND HOPEFULLY THESE MANUFACTURED OR HOMES MANUFACTURED IN A FACTORY BECOME A PRICE POINT THAT MAKES SENSE, BUT IT'S GONNA BE HARD TO CITE THOSE, UM, IN CLUSTERS THAT MAKE ECONOMIC SENSE UNLESS WE HAVE KIND OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE ALREADY SET UP FOR DEVELOPERS COME IN AND SAY, OH, HEY, IT'S BY. RIGHT? I CAN, I CAN DO THIS AND, AND HAVE NO QUESTIONS. THAT THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO THROUGH A LONG PROCESS TO BE ABLE TO GET DIFFERENT SERVICES TO THE SAME DIFFERENT POSTAL ADDRESSES, DIFFERENT SERVICES, UH, TO A PLAT THAT COULD HOUSE FIVE, SIX TINY HOMES, BUT UNDER CURRENT CODE DOESN'T ALLOW THAT. SO I KNOW WE'RE KIND OF JUST REALLY TACKLING ADUS IN THIS ROUND OF IT, BUT I'M HOPING THAT WE, WE KIND OF SEE A CONTINUANCE OF THE EVOLUTION OF THE LDC TO KIND OF SUPPORT THOSE KIND OF NEWER TYPES OF THINGS TO BE ABLE TO GIVE US OUR WORKERS SOME HOUSING. SO, THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SEAN. OKAY. NOBODY ELSE O UH, CLOSE OUT THE PUBLIC HEARING. WE'LL BRING IT BACK TO COUNSEL FOR FINAL COMMENTS. BRIAN, THANK YOU, MAYOR. UH, FIRST OFF, THANK YOU, CARRIE. THANK YOU STEVE AND STAFF WHO HAVE ALL WORKED ON THESE UPDATES. I IMAGINE KURT HAD SOME HAND IN IT AS WELL. SO, UH, APPRECIATE, UH, THE WORK THAT'S GONE INTO IT. I'M ASSUMING THAT THOSE TWO REQUESTS THAT I MADE DURING QUESTIONS HAVE MADE IT IN AS SOME ADJUSTMENTS HERE, UM, TO WHAT WE'LL WIND UP, UH, TAKING A MOTION TO AFTER BIT. UH, I, I WANNA REPEAT SOMETHING I'VE ASKED FOR OR SUGGESTED THAT, UH, WE CONSIDER PURSUING PREVIOUSLY, WHICH IS TO HAVE A TURNKEY PROGRAM FOR ADUS, WHERE WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, SOME QUALIFIED MANUFACTURER OR MANUFACTURERS, UH, WITH SOME UNITS THAT APPARENTLY WOULD BE IRC COMPLIANT. UH, NOW I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT, UM, SUCH THAT WE CAN MAKE IT EASY, UH, AND LESS COSTLY, UH, TO GET ADUS BROUGHT IN ON A TRAILER, DROPPED IN BY A CRANE, AND, UH, HOPEFULLY MAKE IT EASIER TO GET, UH, SOME EDS AND THEREFORE LONG-TERM HOUSING FOR, UH, WORKERS HERE. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, I HOPE THAT THAT'S, UH, THIS TURNKEY PROGRAM IS SOMETHING THAT I'D LIKE TO SEE MY COLLEAGUES SUPPORT AND PROVIDE DIRECTION TO STAFF TO BE WORKING ON THAT. I SUSPECT THAT THAT WOULD BE PROBABLY APPROPRIATE FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION WHEN WE HAVE OUR, UM, RETREAT NEXT MONTH. UH, AND WANNA PUT THAT OUT THERE FOR EVERYBODY'S CONSIDERATION AT THAT TIME. UH, AND I THINK THAT'S IT FOR ME RIGHT NOW, MAYOR. THANK YOU, MELISSA. SO, SO I THINK I FEEL A LITTLE BIT LIKE WE'VE CONFLATED A COUPLE OF THINGS HERE. [01:20:01] AND, UM, IF WE THINK ABOUT ADUS AS BEING LONG-TERM RENTALS, THEN I THINK WE HAVE SOME OF THE ISSUES AROUND, YOU KNOW, HOW HOW DO THEY PAY FOR THEIR ELECTRICITY? HOW DO THEY, HOW DO THEY HAVE A STREET ADDRESS? HOW DO THEY DO ALL THOSE THINGS AS OPPOSED TO A GUEST HOUSE WHERE YOU'RE GONNA BE THERE, WHICH IN ESSENCE IS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL, RIGHT? A GUEST HOUSE IS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL. UM, I WOULD BE THERE AND, UM, I'M GOING TO, WHATEVER MY FEE IS, WOULD BE ABSORBED INTO THE USE OF MY ELECTRICITY, THE USE OF WHATEVER ELSE MIGHT BE PERTINENT. SO IF I THINK OF ADUS AS BEING INTENDED FOR LONG-TERM RENTALS, I'M BEGINNING TO WONDER IF WE HAVEN'T CREATED A NEW FORM OF MULTIFAMILY ZONING, IN ESSENCE, UM, ON A SINGLE TODAY SINGLE RESIDENTIAL LOT. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S TRUE OR NOT, BUT IT SOUNDS OR FEELS LIKE THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'RE ENDING UP DOING WHEN WE START TO THINK OF THESE AS A SEPARATE HOME THAT SOMEONE'S GONNA BE LIVING IN, THEY'RE GONNA GET THEIR MAIL TO, THEY'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, GET PACKAGES TO THEY'RE, THEY'RE GOING TO, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE. IT FEELS LIKE WE'RE SAYING THERE'S NOW TWO HOMES ON HERE. THERE'S NOT A HOME AND THEN A, A GUEST OR SHORT TERM USAGE, UM, BUILDING. I, I AGREE. I THINK WHERE THE LANGUAGE IS MUDDLED, UH, AROUND MANUFACTURED HOUSING, WE, WE WE'RE, UM, THERE'S THE WAY WE THINK ABOUT IT AS, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, THESE OLD HOMES THAT ARE SORT OF SCATTERED AROUND HERE, AND WE CERTAINLY DON'T WANT THOSE TO BE COME SOMEBODY'S NEW HOME. WE WANT THEM TO BE THE IRC COMPLIANT HOMES. UM, I JUST FEEL LIKE FOR ME, THIS IS STILL A LITTLE CONFUSED AND MUDDLED AS TO WHAT I'M TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH. AND THE, UM, SETBACKS, IF YOU'RE PUTTING, UM, FIVE OF THESE ON MY PROPERTY TO USE SEAN'S TERM AND SOMEBODY OWNS A HOME WHO'S RIGHT NEXT TO ME, YOU KNOW, I DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO HAVE SOMEBODY ELSE'S HOUSE ABUTTED RIGHT NEXT TO MY PROPERTY LINE. UM, I HAVE TO BE FIVE FOOT IN BECAUSE I'M A SINGLE RESIDENT, BUT THEY CAN BE SITTING RIGHT ON MY PROPERTY LINE. SO I THINK THAT THESE ARE ALL GOOD SUGGESTIONS, GOOD QUESTIONS, GOOD COMMENTS, BUT IT LEAVES ME FEELING A LITTLE BIT UNCOMFORTABLE AS TO WHAT WE THINK WE'RE TRYING TO APPROVE HERE TONIGHT, IF THAT MAKES ANY SENSE. HOLLY, I DON'T THINK WE'RE, IT SAYS RIGHT HERE WHERE THIS IS A MAXIMUM ONE ACCESSORY BUILDING, SO THAT WOULDN'T FIVE, IT WOULDN'T BE POSSIBLE UNDER THIS SECTION, BUT IT DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH. SO IT'S, IT, WE ASKED YOU TO BRING BACK AN A DU ORDINANCE TO THAT THE WOULD MATCH WHAT THE STATE LAW HAS ALLOWED US TO DO. AND, AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE DONE. BUT I WOULD LIKE TO COUNSELOR F'S POINT, I WOULD SUPPORT, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT'S BROADER. I SUPPORT THIS, BUT I DON'T THINK THIS GOES FAR ENOUGH TO ACHIEVE WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO, WHICH IS TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF, OF, OF HA HABITABLE DWELLINGS FOR LONG-TERM RENTALS. SO IT DOES THE SMALL THING, BUT IT COULD BE A BIG THING, BUT IT, IT DOES TAKE CARE OF THAT. ALTHOUGH THE DEFINITIONS, YOU'LL FIX THOSE AS WE SUGGESTED, BUT, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US GO BEYOND THAT BECAUSE WE NEED, WE NEED TO LOOK AT ALL FORMS OF HOUSING TYPES. AND THIS DOESN'T DO THAT. AND IT WASN'T DESIGNED TO DO THAT. I UNDERSTAND. BUT I'D LIKE US TO BE LOOKING AT THAT. AND NOT IN A YEAR, BUT, AND I KNOW YOU'RE WORKING ON LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND A LOT OF OTHER THINGS, BUT I JUST THINK WE'RE IN A CRISIS AND WE NEED TO BE LOOKING AT EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN DO TO GET US OUT OF THAT CRISIS. THANK YOU. OKAY. COUNCILOR FAFF, YOU HAVE ANYTHING YET? OKAY. COUNCILOR FURMAN. THANK YOU, MAYOR. UH, YEAH, I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE WORK THAT WENT INTO THIS. IT WAS THE STATE THAT KIND OF PUSHED US TO TAKE THESE, THE LAST STEPS. UH, AND I REMAIN UNCOMFORTABLE THAT IT'S GONNA HAVE THE RESULT THAT, UH, WE WOULD LIKE IT TO. AND WE WILL SEE OVER TIME WHETHER WE'RE REALLY, UH, ADDING ANY MEANINGFUL NUMBERS [01:25:01] OF, UH, LONG-TERM RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES IN OUR COMMUNITY. AND I'M GONNA BE VERY INTERESTED IN TRACKING THAT OVER TIME. I AM GONNA, UH, SUPPORT A COUNSELOR FO'S IDEA OF SOME PRE-APPROVED, UH, PLANS THAT MIGHT HELP DRIVE DOWN THE COST OF, OF STRUCTURES WE MIGHT ADD. AND IT PROBABLY IS A CONVERSATION FOR THE PRIORITY SETTING SESSION. SO THANK YOU, KATHY. THANK YOU. UM, JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT CAME UP BASED ON SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT I HEARD. I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR. UM, A MANUFACTURED HOME THAT EXISTS CAN OR CANNOT HAVE ALSO A MANUFACTURED A DU. IT CANNOT. SO RIGHT NOW IT, THE CODE DOES NOT ALLOW THE GUEST HOUSE, THE A DU TO BE A MANUFACTURED HOME AS THE CODE DEFINES. BUT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT THAT BEFORE, THAT IT COULD IF IT WAS FACTORY BUILT. SO IT CAN, SO AS THE CODE DEFINES MANUFACTURING, OKAY, SO IT'S, I'M JUST MISSING THAT WORD QUALIFIER IN THERE. AND THEN THE ANSWER WOULD BE YES. IS THAT CORRECT? IF THEY'RE IRC CERTIFIED, THEY ARE THAT OKAY, THAT'S FINE. I JUST, I NEED A CLARIFICATION ON THAT. WE KEEP COMING BACK TO THAT. THANK YOU. UM, AND I JUST WANT CLARIFICATION. WHAT, WHAT IS THE REQUIRED THE MINIMUM REQUIRED SETBACK FOR AN A DU? SO IT REQUIRES THE SAME SETBACKS AS THE MAIN HOUSE, WHICH VARIED DEPENDING ON THE ZONING DISTRICT FROM THE, FROM A NEIGHBORING PROPERTY LINE, RIGHT? AND THAT IS, IT RANGES FROM 20 TO 50 FEET FOR THE FRONT AND REAR, AND FIVE TO 25 FEET FOR THE SIDES. AND THE FIVE FEET'S NOT A LOT OF SPACE BETWEEN A PROPERTY LINE AND, AND A HOUSE, BUT IT HAS, HOW IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT? IS FIVE APPROPRIATE? IS FIVE TOO MUCH? IS FIVE TOO SOON? IS, I MEAN, IS IT SOMETHING THAT I JUST WANNA KNOW? SO AGAIN, EACH ZONING DISTRICT HAS SETBACKS. MM-HMM. OR THE PRIMARY HOUSE. AND THE ADUS WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE SAME SETBACKS AS FOR THE HOUSE. AND SO, SO WE COULDN'T LOOK AT THIS IN REGARDS TO A DU 'CAUSE WE'D BE CHANGING FOR EVERYTHING. WELL, SO THAT'S THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN RIGHT NOW. OKAY. THIS, IF YOU WANNA HAVE A DIFFERENT SETBACK FOR AN A DU, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT COULD BE DISCUSSED. OKAY. OKAY. AND THEN, UM, I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION THAT CAME UP FROM, FROM A COMMENT THAT WAS MADE FROM THE DEUS, WHICH I'M JUST, I'M TRYING TO WRAP MY HEAD AROUND NOW TOO. SO YOU, YOU NOW HAVE, AS COUNCILOR DUNN SAID, TWO HOMES ON A LOT THAT PREVIOUSLY HAD ONE HOME. AND THE ADDRESSING QUESTION FOR MAIL FOR EMERGENCY SERVICES FOR ANYBODY REACH THAT SECOND HOME. WHO DOES THE ADDRESSING? THE CITY OR THE COUNTY WHO DO, WHO ASSIGNS AN ADDRESS? THE CITY PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT ASSIGNS ADDRESSES. AND, AND IS IT EVER ASSIGNED AS LIKE 1, 2, 3 AVENUE A AND 1 2, 3 B AVENUE? I MEAN, DO WE, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S USED? LIKE IS THERE SOME WAY OF THAT WE CAN AVOID THE CONFUSION, YOU KNOW, WITH AN A DU PUT ON? I'M, I'M JUST TRYING TO, SO GET AHEAD OF THAT. ANDY CAN JUMP IN 'CAUSE HE MIGHT KNOW MORE THAN ME. BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT, SO THEY MIGHT THINK THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM THAT MAYBE MAY OR MAY NOT EXIST. DOES IT EXIST, IS THE QUESTION. SO THE CITY, SO I KNOW FOR COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES, 'CAUSE THAT'S TYPICALLY THE UNITS, YOU KNOW, THE AREAS THAT HAVE MORE MULTIPLE TENANTS, THE CITY WILL ASSIGN A SINGLE ADDRESS, AND THEN THE PROPERTY OWNER WILL WORK WITH THE, THE FIRE DISTRICT AND THE POST OFFICE TO ASSIGN UNIT NUMBERS. SO THAT'S BASICALLY NOT OUR PROBLEM. IT'S SOMEBODY ELSE. IT'S THEIR PROBLEM TO WORK OUT WITH THE SERVICES THAT ARE ANDY IS NODDING, SO YOU, YOU'RE CORRECT. OKAY. , THAT'S, I, THAT'S WHY I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE OF THAT. SO THAT'S NOT, OKAY. SO THAT'S NOT A CONCERN FOR ME THEN. UM, OKAY. AND I WOULD ALSO WANNA GO ON RECORD AS SUPPORTING, UM, THE IDEA OF HAVING SOME PRE-APPROVED WAY OF DOING THIS IN ORDER TO EXPEDITE THINGS, REDUCE DESIGN COSTS, FEES. I MEAN, I THINK THAT THAT'S, IF WE DO WANNA STIMULATE ADUS, THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT. AND I SAY LOOK AT BECAUSE IT'S NOT, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD PROBABLY REQUIRE A LOT OF CONVERSATION WHEN IT COMES FORWARD. BUT I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US MOVE ON. AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU NEED US TO RESTATE THAT. AND THE BUDGET PRIORITIES IS PROBABLY THE RIGHT PLACE TO DO THAT. SO YEAH, IF WE'D HAVE TO HIRE AN ARCHITECT AND AN ENGINEER AND ALL THAT TO GO THROUGH THAT, THAT WOULD, WE WOULD, WE WOULD NEED BUDGET FOR THAT. OKAY. AND WITH THAT, I, I, YEAH, I'D BE SUPPORTIVE OF THE CHANGES THAT WE HAVE NOW AND WANNA BE LOOKING FORWARD. THANK YOU. SO I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT CAME, CAME UP. ALSO SOMETHING THAT COUNCILOR DUNN SAID, A GUEST HOUSE IS THE SAME AS A SHORT TERM RENTAL. DID I HEAR THAT RIGHT? CAN YOU, SO, SO THE WAY, IF YOU THINK ABOUT A GUEST HOUSE, [01:30:01] SOMEBODY WHO COMES AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE SPENDING A SMALL AMOUNT OF TIME, THEY DON'T NEED AS MUCH FULL FACILITY AS SOMEONE WHO'S LIVING THERE LONG TERM. SO IF THEY HAVE A KITCHENETTE, THAT WOULD BE SUFFICIENT. BUT IF YOU WERE LIVING THERE FULL, FULL TIME, YOU MIGHT WANT A FULL KITCHEN, YOU MIGHT WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ENOUGH BEDROOMS, SILVER AND SO ON. SO IN MY MIND, IF OUR GUEST HOUSE TODAY TO COME UP TO THE A DU STANDARD IS TO JUST HAVE A KITCHENETTE, TO ME THAT FEELS MORE LIKE SOMETHING A SHORT TERM RENTAL WOULD BE THAN SOMETHING THAT A LONG TERM LIVING ARRANGEMENT WOULD BE. AND THAT'S WHY I SAID THAT'S JUST MY INTERPRETATION AND MY UNDERSTANDING IN MY HEAD OF WHAT THIS WOULD LOOK LIKE. OKAY. I JUST, BECAUSE I KNOW SEVERAL PEOPLE HAVE GUEST HOUSES, THEY'RE JUST GUEST HOUSES. THEY DON'T RENT THE MATTER SHORT TERM. I HAVE ONE. AND THEY'RE USED FOR GUESTS. MM-HMM. . UM, AND THAT, THAT'S WHY I WAS A LITTLE CONFUSED AS TO THAT. UH, BUT THEY WON'T BE CALLED GUEST. THEY'LL BE ADUS. THEY'LL BE ADUS UNDER THIS. GOODNESS. OKAY. AND I COULD PUT A KITCHEN IN NOW, OR NOT, OR NOT, RIGHT? I COULD ACTUALLY FINISH THAT OR NOT. UH, SO I JUST WANT TO, FOR THE RECORD, CLARIFY THE IRC AND STEVE, YOU'RE GONNA GET ON THE MIC AS FAR AS YOU'RE SAYING THIS IS SAFE. AND I GET IT. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE IRCS, THEY MEET THE FIRE CODE, THEY MEET THE CURRENT STANDARDS. ANYTHING ELSE THAT WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED, CARRIE, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT SAFE. THEY'RE NOT SAFE FOR THE, THE PROPERTY OWNER'S GOING TO BE INSTALLING THEM OR THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS OR THE NEIGHBORHOOD SHOULD THAT LIGHT UP AND CAUSE A FIRE. SO WHAT, BUT WHAT IS A DIFFERENT, WHAT ARE THERE TINY HOMES THAT DON'T MEET THE IRC CODE AND THOSE ARE THE ONES ON TRAILERS? SO, UM, YES. AND I'LL, I'LL START BY BACKING UP A LITTLE BIT. THE IRC IS OUR ADOPTED BUILDING CODE. IT'S WRITTEN BY THE INTERNATIONAL CODE COUNCIL, AND IT IS A CODE THAT'S BEEN AROUND FOR DECADES UPON DECADES AND BEEN VETTED AND VETTED. SO YES, UH, WE HAVE ADOPTED THAT AS OUR LIFE SAFETY CODE FOR RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION BUILDING CODE FOR RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION. TINY HOMES ON WHEELS YOU COULD LOOK AT AS AN RV BECAUSE THEY ARE CERTIFIED THE SAME WAY AND THEY'RE NOT HOOKED UP TO THE SEPTIC OR SEWER. AND THEY'RE NOT HOOKED UP TO ELECTRIC THE SAME AS A HOME WOULD BE. CORRECT. DIRECT TO RECONNECT. CORRECT. THEY ARE A MOBILE STRUCTURE. SO, UM, OKAY. AND I PRETTY MUCH UNDERSTOOD THAT, BUT YOU CLARIFIED A LITTLE BIT BETTER. I APPRECIATE THAT. SURE. UH, I WILL SUPPORT THIS, ALTHOUGH GRUDGINGLY ONLY FOR THE FACT THAT IT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CITY COUNCIL, WE GAVE THE STATE LEGISLATURE, UH, REQUIREMENTS THAT WE WANTED TO SEE THEM MOVE FORWARD WITH, UH, ADUS AND THEY FELL SHORT. I FEEL THAT, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW, I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE ARE, JUST AT 17% SHORT-TERM RENTALS. I DON'T WANNA SEE ONE MORE. UH, I WOULD RATHER SEE LONG-TERM RENTALS. I WOULD RATHER SEE WORKFORCE HOUSING. AND I HOPE THAT THERE'S PEOPLE LIKE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT ARE DOING THAT. AND I HOPE THAT THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, CONTINUOUS. I DON'T SEE THAT SO MUCH OR I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH IT BECAUSE I THINK THAT WE'RE GOING TO JUST TAKE THAT 17% AND JUST SKYROCKETED. AND I'M REALLY AFRAID OF THAT HAPPENING. BUT WE'RE REQUIRED BY THE STATE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, SO I WOULD SUPPORT IT. SO, UM, BEFORE WE DO A MOTION, KURT, THERE WITH SOME CHANGES TO THIS. YEAH. SO MAYOR AND COUNCIL, LOOKING AT IT SOME MORE, UH, ADDRESSING THE CHANGES PROPOSED BY COUNCILOR KINSELLA, I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND DOING IT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THE DEFINITION OF MANUFACTURED HOME IS, IS REALLY WHAT WE CONSIDER A, A MOBILE HOME, UM, THAT COMES IN ON WHEELS AND, AND THAT TYPE OF FRAME. AND SO ADDING IN THE WORDS, YOU KNOW, UNLESS IT IS IRC CERTIFIED OR MEETS IRC STANDARDS, THERE'S, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU'RE GONNA, THERE MIGHT BE A FEW OUT THERE SOMEWHERE. YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO FIND ONE, BUT IT'S NOT GONNA BE VERY RARE. AND SO THEN IT ALSO KIND OF MUDDLES THE WATER, WHICH WE'VE SEEN HERE, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A A A HOME BUILT IN A FACTORY, WHICH I THINK THE DEFINITION WOULD REALLY BE A MODULAR HOME. WE, I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD, AND I THINK COUNCIL LOOKING LIKE THEY'D BE OKAY WITH, IS MODULAR HOMES ARE FACTORY BUILT HOMES, UH, BUT AREN'T MANUFACTURED OR MOBILE HOMES. SO WE GOT DIFFERENCES OF, UH, DEFINITIONS HERE. SO I THINK THE BEST IDEA, MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE TO BRING BACK A, A WHOLE NEW DEFINITION, UM, THAT COULD BE ALLOWED AS ADUS. UM, AND I THINK WE SHOULD ALSO PROBABLY ADDRESS WHETHER, UM, MODULAR AND OR MANUFACTURED HOMES WE ALLOWED ON HOMES, SITES THAT ALREADY ALLOWED MANUFACTURED HOMES AND SOME OF THOSE DISCUSSIONS. AND THAT'D BE A DISCUSSION FOR ANOTHER, ANOTHER TIME. SO YOU'RE RECOMMENDING THAT WE TABLE THIS FOR NO, I, I RECOMMEND WE MOVE FORWARD WITH [01:35:01] THIS, UM, RIGHT NOW AND THAT IN LESS THAN A YEAR, AS, AS VICE MAYOR SAID, HOPEFULLY IN SIX MONTHS WE CAN COME BACK, UH, AND WE CAN GET DIRECTION FROM COUNCIL AT THE PRIORITY SETTING TO SPECIFICALLY ON SETBACKS. I THINK THAT'S GONNA BE A, ANOTHER DISCUSSION IF THOSE WANT TO CHANGE FROM WHAT'S CURRENTLY IN THERE. UM, AND THEN WE CAN, UH, ADDRESS THOSE. AND THIS COULD ALSO THEN RUN THROUGH, UH, THE, THE DIRECT SCREEN FROM COUNCIL AND THE STAFF LOOKS INTO, WE CAN THEN RUN THROUGH P AND Z ALSO GET THEIR INPUT AND BEFORE COMING BACK WITH MORE CHANGES. OKAY. UM, CARRIE, BUT I BELIEVE, I DON'T KNOW IF COUNSELOR FOLTZ WAS GONNA SAY THIS, BUT I ALSO HAVE THAT YOU WANTED TO ADD TO THE DEFINITION OF PRIMARY RESIDENCE, THAT ALL FOUR CONDITIONS SHALL BE MET. MM-HMM. FOR THE DWELLING TO BE CONSIDERED A PRIMARY RESIDENCE. MM-HMM. , I AGREE WITH THAT TOO. YES, PLEASE. MIND READER. SO KURT, DO YOU HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH THAT BEING DONE HERE OR DOES THAT HAVE TO COME BACK AS WELL IN YOUR OPINION? SO THE, THE REASON I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND NECESSARILY ADDING THAT IS BECAUSE IT, IT, IT MUDDLES THE DEFINITION. NOW YOU'RE GONNA HAVE SOME PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT DRIVE OR HAVE A CAR, AND NOW THEY CAN'T USE IT. SO THE REASON WE USE IT IS, THE REASON I DRAFTED IT IS THE FOUR WITH AN AND IS SO THAT THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF, IT'S NOT A, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CAR AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT NOW, IF YOU, IF YOU PUT THAT IN THERE, THAT STRICT GOOD POINT, THEN SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T HAVE A CAR MAY OR DRIVER'S LICENSE FOR WHATEVER REASON, MAY NOT BE ABLE TO RENT OUT THEIR A DU AS A SHORT TERM RENTAL. THE WAY IT'S CURRENTLY WRITTEN IS A FLEXIBILITY THAT ALL FOUR REQUIRED AND AS MUCH AS THEY EXIST, BASICALLY, IF, IF THEY'RE, IF THEY'RE THERE, THEN, I MEAN, SORRY, NOT TO MAKE IT HARDER, BUT THEN THAT ADDITIONAL QUALIFICATION NEEDS TO BE ADDED IN. OTHERWISE CAN'T I JUST, YOU KNOW, I I CAN, I CAN AVOID THE INTENT OF THIS IF IT DOESN'T REQUIRE ALL FOUR OR IT DOESN'T REQUIRE ALL FOUR, UNLESS IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR ONE OF THOSE TO APPLY. SO THEN YOU GET INTO, I MEAN, DEFINITIONAL OF WHAT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE PERSON OR NOT. AND SO I I, IT REQUIRES ALL FOUR THE AND IS CLEAR ILLEGALLY WHEN YOU HAVE THE COMMAS AND AN, AND ALL FOUR IS, IS REQUIRED. UM, BUT I THINK IT LEAVES ENOUGH ROOM FOR STAFF TO STILL BE ABLE TO, UH, GIVE SOMEONE A-A-A-S-T-R PERMIT FOR THEIR A DU IF THEY COULDN'T BRING IN ONE OF THOSE THINGS FOR, FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER. UH, ANOTHER EXAMPLE WOULD BE A CONVICTED FELON WHO CAN'T, DOESN'T HAVE VOTER REGISTRATION. OKAY. BUT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE ITEM ONE ON THE LIST OF FOUR OCCUPIES FOR AT LEAST SIX MONTHS PLUS ONE DAY. AND, AND THAT'S ALWAYS GONNA BE THE ONE MOST HARD FOR THE CITY TO TRACK ANYWAYS. WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO SIT OUTSIDE. UM, THAT WAS ALSO IN THE OLD, IN THE PREVIOUS A D ORDINANCE. UM, AND SO THAT'S THE REQUIREMENT. AND THEY'LL HAVE TO CERTIFY THAT THEY ARE LIVING IN THERE MORE THAN, MORE THAN HALF THE YEAR IS THE INTENTION OF THAT. UH, AND THAT, AND, AND IN THE PAST, A DU, THAT'S THE ONLY REQUIREMENT WE'VE ADDED IN THE ADDITIONAL THREE TO TRY TO VERIFY THAT IT TRULY IS THEIR PRIMARY RESIDENCE. I, I THINK THAT THE VOTER REGISTRATION AS THE KEY, 'CAUSE PEOPLE WHO ARE REGISTERED TO VOTE IN THE STATE WOULD CONSIDER THEMSELVES TO BE PRIMARILY RESIDE IN THIS STATE. CORRECT. OUR, OUR INTENTIONS NOT TO THAT THEY CAN'T HAVE A SECOND HOME OR ANOTHER VACATION HOME OR, OR, OR TRAVEL OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. JUST THAT, UM, THIS WOULD BE THEIR PRIMARY RESIDENT AS, UM, IT'S NOT DEFINED IN THE STATE LAW, BUT IT'S NOT ALLOWED FOR THE CITY WITH THE ADUS TO ENFORCE. AND, AND I KNOW A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO DO THINK THEY LIVE HERE, WHO DO SAY THEY LIVE HERE AND YET THEY, THEY VOTER REGISTRATION IS FROM THE OTHER STATE. AND THAT I THINK THAT THEY DON'T REALLY LIVE HERE THEN , RIGHT. UH, IF YOU'RE NOT REGISTERED TO VOTE. SO I THINK THAT ONE IS EASY TO, TO, UH, HAVE DOCUMENTATION AND IT SHOULD NEVER BE WAIVED. IT'S JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION COURT, YOUR TAKE. BUT IT'S ONE OF THE FOUR, THE GOAL IS TO HAVE ALL FOUR OF THOSE COMPLIED. OKAY. AND IT, AND IT STATES THAT ALREADY WITH THE USE OF AND MM-HMM. IT'S ALL FOUR. AND BRIAN, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU FINISHED ON THAT. IF, IF WE, IF, IF WE TAKE YOUR GUIDANCE HERE, KURT, AND IT TURNS OUT THAT IT CREATES SOME UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES THAT WE WANT TO UNRAVEL 18 MONTHS FROM NOW, HAVE WE JUST GRANDFATHERED OURSELVES INTO THIS WITH THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. SO THIS ISN'T A LAND USE LAW, SO IT'S A, UH, IT GOES MORE TO THE, THE PERMITTING. UM, AND SO NO, THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY GRANDFATHERING, UH, ARGUE. OF COURSE PEOPLE CAN MAKE AN ARGUMENT ABOUT ANYTHING AND MAY, UH, BUT I WOULDN'T CONSIDER THIS SOMETHING THAT A GRANDFATHERING SITUATION. IT'S [01:40:01] NOT A ZONING, UM, TYPE TYPE CHANGE. THIS COULD HAVE JUST AS EASILY, SINCE WE WERE MAKING THIS CHANGE, WE STUCK IT HERE. WE COULD HAVE JUST AS EASILY PUT THIS IN THE SEDONA CITY CODE AND UH, IN THE SHORT TERM RENTAL SECTION. WOULD WE RATHER HAVE A HIGHER STANDARD HERE AND ALLOW FOR AN APPEAL OF THAT STANDARD? SO THAT'S A POSSIBILITY. UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY HIGHER, BECAUSE ALL FOUR ARE ALREADY REQUIRED WITH THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN. OKAY. BUT IT, IT WASN'T CLEAR TO ALL OF US. I KNOW I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT QUESTIONED WHETHER OR NOT ALL FOUR APPLIED. SO AGAIN, WITH THE DESIRE TO AVOID AMBIGUITY, I IF, IF THAT'S COUNSEL'S PREFERENCE, WE CAN INCLUDE YOUR SUGGESTED LANGUAGE COUNSELOR FO UM, I THINK SO. KNOWING THAT IT'S MORE LIKELY WE'LL HAVE TO COME BACK TO MAYBE CHANGE IT IN, IN A FEW MONTHS. IF IT CREATES PROBLEMS, WE CAN GO THAT WAY AS WELL. OKAY. SO I'D RATHER DO THAT RIGHT NOW TOO. I, I WANNA BE, I WANNA BE CLEAR ON WHERE WE ARE BECAUSE THIS HAS GONE BACK AND FORTH WITH THAT A LITTLE BIT. AND I, I REALLY WANT CLARITY ON THIS BECAUSE I'M A LITTLE WORRIED ABOUT, WE WANNA BE CAREFUL WITH THIS ABOUT WHO CAN APPLY AND CAN'T. BUT I ALSO DON'T WANT TO BE DOING SOMETHING THAT'S DISCRIMINATORY. I BELIEVE THAT EVERY, IS EVERYBODY'S RESPONSIBILITY TO BE REGISTERED TO VOTE. I DO NOT THINK WE SHOULD BE REQUIRING PEOPLE TO REGISTER TO VOTE. I JUST DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT WHAT I WAS SAYING. I KNOW I AM AND I'M TALKING TO THE, THE AND VERSUS OR QUESTION BY HAVING AN AND IN HERE, YOU KNOW, MEANS THAT YEAH, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A VEHICLE. YES. YOU HAVE TO REGISTER TO VOTE. YES. YOU HAVE TO. I MEAN, I'M NOT COMFORTABLE IN GOING THAT, THAT SORT OF MANDATORY ROUTE FOR PEOPLE. SO I, I THINK THAT I, I WANNA SEE THIS CLEANED UP A LITTLE BIT SOMEHOW. UH, AGREE WITH THAT. THAT'S THE PURPOSE. AND I WANNA SEE SOME STRINGENT REQUIREMENTS. I WANNA BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT THE WORDING HERE. THAT'S ALL. I'M GOOD WITH THAT. LIKE, I, I I DON'T HAVE THE GREAT ANSWER. RIGHT. I WANT THE SAME THING YOU DO THE STRINGENT REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE NOT UNREASONABLE. RIGHT. AND I, BUT I DON'T WANNA MOVE AHEAD ON SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO PUT SOMETHING IN PLACE WITH THAT. SO I'D LIKE TO GET THAT LANGUAGE CLEARED UP NOW. 'CAUSE I PERSONALLY WOULD LIKE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS TONIGHT IF POSSIBLE, COMING BACK WITH THE OTHER, UH, THINGS THAT WERE UNDER DISCUSSION. BUT THIS IS A BIG ONE FOR ME, TO, TO GET CLEARED UP BEFORE WE MOVE AHEAD. SO I THINK KURT'S PATIENTLY SITTING THERE SAYING IT ALREADY IS SUFFICIENT AS IS AND THAT IT'S SUFFICIENTLY STRINGENT AS IS. BUT IT SAYS AND WHICH IN NOT, OR YEAH. SO NOW WE'RE SWITCHING FROM NOT STRINGENT ENOUGH FOR COUNCILOR FULLNESS TO TOO STRINGENT TO COUNCILOR KINSELLA. UM, WHICH IS NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO DO. THAT'S THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU WANT. NO, WELL, WHAT I WANT IS, YEAH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANT BECAUSE I WANT, DO YOU KNOW WHAT I WANT? I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PHRASE WHAT I WANT. WHAT I WANT IS SOMETHING THAT DOES HAVE THE REQUIREMENTS BUT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S COMPELLING PEOPLE TO OWN A VEHICLE OR COMPELLING PEOPLE TO REGISTER OR I MEAN IT. THAT'S, I JUST THINK AN UNFAIR HURDLE. OKAY. COUNCIL DUNN. SO, SO TO BE CLEAR WHEN I READ THIS, THERE IS AN, AND AT THE VERY END, WHICH IS THE WAY YOU MAKE ALL ELEMENTS OF THE LIST REQUIRED. SO RIGHT IN ENGLISH, THIS IS ALREADY SET UP EXACTLY THE WAY YOU SANG ALL OF THESE THINGS MUST BECAUSE THERE'S AN AND AT THE VERY END, WHICH I THINK COURAGE HAS BEEN TRYING TO SAY FOR QUITE SOME TIME. BUT, UM, I ALSO HEARD KURT SAY THE FOLLOWING THAT WOULD BE DISCRETIONARY UP TO THE STAFF. WHEN PEOPLE COME IN AND THEY ASK FOR THIS AS TO WHETHER OR NOT ALL OF THEM APPLY BECAUSE MAYBE THEY DON'T HAVE A CAR, RIGHT. OR, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT, BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A CAR, THE LAST TWO WON'T APPLY. AND YOU CAN'T JUST LIST, SAY LIST ON THEIR STATES, WHATEVER, LICENSING. IT'S NOT EVEN, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU, WHERE YOU JUST HAVE SORT OF A STATE CARD THAT LOOKS LIKE A DRIVER'S LICENSE, BUT YOU DON'T ACTUALLY DRIVE, RIGHT? YEAH. SO, OH, I CARD ID CARD. THANK YOU ID CARD. I, I KNEW THERE WAS A WORD SOMEWHERE, MAYBE TWO. SO I HEARD THAT AS WELL. AND DOES THAT REALLY NEED TO BE CALLED OUT? I MEAN, DON'T WE JUST ALWAYS ASSUME THAT STAFF USES DISCRETION WHEN THEY'RE DOING THE PERMITTING AN APPLICATION AS SOMEBODY APPLIES, UH, CURRENT, YEAH. SO SIMILAR TO A POLICE OFFICER HAS A DISCRETION WHETHER THEY GIVES SOMEONE A CITATION OR WARNING. UM, THE SHORT TERM RENTAL SPECIALIST, WHEN SOMEONE APPLIES FOR AN A DU UH, ORDINANCE OR AN SDR PERMIT AT THEIR A DU, THEIR NEW A D, NEWLY CONSTRUCTED A DU, UM, THERE CAN BE A DISCUSSION ON WHETHER THEY ARE USING THAT AS THEIR PRIMARY RESIDENCE OR NOT. SO THIS IS [01:45:01] THE GUIDELINE AND DEFINITION OF PRIMARY RESIDENCE. UM, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO DRAFT A DEFINITION THAT WILL MEET EVERYBODY'S CIRCUMSTANCES. SO THIS IS INTENDED TO CAPTURE THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO SHOW THAT THIS IS THEIR PRIMARY RESIDENCE. OKAY. AND THERE'S AN UNWILLINGNESS TO CHANGE THE AND TO AN OR. CORRECT. YOU WANT ALL FOUR IF IT'S AN OR THEN SOMEONE JUST NEEDS TO SHOW ONE OF THE FOUR AND THEN THEY'RE IN AND THEY CAN JUST REGISTER THEIR VEHICLE AND THEY'RE GOOD. THEY WON'T HAVE TO SHOW ANYTHING ELSE. AND THAT WON'T BE SUFFICIENT IN MOST CIRCUMSTANCES. COULD IT SAY AT LEAST TWO OF THE FOUR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? OR, I DON'T KNOW. I JUST, I'M ASKING A LEGAL QUESTION. YEAH, SO THAT GETS BACK TO COUNSELOR FO'S POINT. I'D RATHER LEAVE IT ALL FOUR NOW. AND IF WE RAN INTO A LOT OF ISSUES ABOUT, UH, GRANTING 80, UH, SHORT-TERM RENTAL PERMITS AT ADUS, WE COULD RELAX THAT AND PERHAPS THAT'S THE WAY TO GO. COUNCILOR KINSELLA DO THREE OF THE FOUR, TWO OF THE FOUR OR SOMETHING AT SOME POINT. YOU GOOD? UH, I'M UNCOMFORTABLE, BUT I OKAY. HAVE NOTHING NEW TO ADD. OKAY. COUNSELOR ON THE END. THE NEW, THE, THE NEW GUY ON THE END. I AGREE WITH KURT THAT THE, AND MAKES ALL FOUR OF THEM MANDATORY. UM, TO GO TO KATHY'S QUESTION, COULDN'T WE SAY DWELLING UNIT IN INDIVIDUAL ONE OCCUPIES FOR SIX MONTHS PLUS ONE DAY OF THE YEAR? TWO LISTS ON THEIR VOTER REGISTRATION IF THEY'RE REGISTERED TO VOTE LISTS ON THEIR DRIVER'S LICENSE, IF THEY HAVE A DRIVER'S LICENSE AND LISTS ON THEIR MOTOR VEHICLE REGISTRATION IF THEY OWN A MOTOR VEHICLE. AND THAT MAKES IT CLEAR THAT THERE IS DISCRETION. I DON'T, I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK THAT THERE'S DISCRETION WITH THE, AND THERE, BUT YOU KNOW, ONE IS NOT WAIVABLE. WE'RE SAYING THAT'S, THAT'S IT. SIX MONTHS, ONE DAY YOU HAVE TO MEET THAT. IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CAR, FINE. BUT IF YOU DO HAVE A CAR, WE EXPECT IT TO BE REGISTERED IF THIS ADDRESS, AND THEN THAT WOULD MAKE IT CLEAR. SO SOMEBODY DOESN'T LOOK AT THIS AND GO, OH, WELL I DON'T HAVE A DRIVER'S LICENSE SO I'M OUTTA LUCK. AND I, KURT I DEFER TO YOU ON WHETHER THAT'S A, I THINK THAT'S A VERY REASONABLE CHANGE. I WOULD SUPPORT THAT. I SUPPORT THAT. I SUPPORT THAT. OKAY, I THINK WE'RE GOOD. CAN I HAVE A UH, MOTION? ALRIGHT. AS IS KURT, WOULD THAT CHANGE? I HAVE ONE MINOR CHANGE. UH, IT'D BE BEST TO ADD IN THE, THE LANGUAGE IF WE COULD READ IT AND THEN, UH, WITH THE CHANGE IN THE PRIMARY DEFINITION, PRIMARY RESIDENCE DEFINITION. OKAY. COULD DO THAT IF YOU WANT. I FIGURED. OKAY. THAT'S WHY I'M LOOKING AT YOU . UH, I MOVE TO APPROVE ORDINANCE 2024 DASH 0 9 0 9 CONSISTENT WITH THE APPROVAL CRITERIA IN SECTION 8.6 C FOUR OF THE LDC AMENDING THE LDC ADOPTING BY REFERENCE THAT DOCUMENT KNOWN AS EXHIBIT A NOVEMBER 12TH, 2024, PROPOSED LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REVISIONS WITH THE AMENDED RESIDENCY DEFINITION. SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? I FINALLY GOT THIS ON THE SCREEN. . OH GEE. THANKS KAREN. THE LAST HALF HOUR. OKAY, LET'S DO IT ALL AGAIN. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? WE UNANIMOUS. THANK YOU. WE'LL BE TAKING A BREAK TO, UH, 20 TO SEVEN. OKAY. WE ARE BACK AND WE ARE ALL SEATED. ITEM TWO. [8.b. AB 3071 Public Hearing/discussion/possible direction regarding Development Impact Fees and the proposed Development Fee Report. ] OKAY. EIGHT B AB 30 71 PUBLIC HEARING DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE DIRECTION REGARDING THE DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEES AND THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT FEE REPORT. AND THAT WILL BE BARBARA. WE'RE GETTING IT. YOU CAME BACK AFTER THE LAST TIME YOU, YES. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S GOOD. THAT'S A GOOD SIGN. 30, SORRY. IT'S OKAY. OKAY. YEAH. AND HOW DO I USE THIS TO SWITCH THE SLIDES? YOU CAN JUST SWITCH. YOU'RE THE BEST, BEST. BLESS YOU. BLESS YOU, BLESS YOU. OKAY. UM, GOOD EVENING MAYOR, VICE MAYOR AND MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, BARBARA WHITEHORN WITH THE FINANCIAL SERVICES DEPARTMENT. UM, WE WERE ASKED, UM, BY COUNSEL TO DO SOME COMPARISON OF DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEES. UM, I, I'M NOT GONNA LIE THAT IT WAS A VERY CHALLENGING THING TO DO. UM, DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEES ARE AND I KNOW, AND THAT'S LIKE, AH, THIS LITTLE CLIP ART THING, BUT LIKE THE APPLES TO ORANGES IS REALLY WHAT WE FOUND. [01:50:01] A LOT OF CITIES DON'T HAVE IMPACT FEES AT ALL. COTTONWOOD AND KEMP. VERDE BEING, UM, SPECIFIC CLOSE EXAMPLES, UM, THEY FUND THEIR CAPITAL NEEDS WITH DIFFERENT STREAMS OF REVENUE. IN THE CASE OF KEMP VERDE, THERE'S A LOT OF GRANTS THAT THEY'RE USING FOR THEIR CURRENT CAPITAL PLAN. UM, BUT THEY ALSO FILL THE GAP WITH GENERAL FUND, FUND BALANCE DOLLARS. UM, SAME KIND OF DEAL IN COTTONWOOD THAT I FOUND COTTONWOOD WAS A LITTLE HARDER TO SORT OF UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE DOING, BUT IT'S MORE, IT LOOKS LIKE THEY BUILT UP A SIGNIFICANT FUND BALANCE OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS OR SO. AND THEY'RE SPENDING SOME OF THAT DOWN AS THEY'RE DOING LARGER CAPITAL PROJECTS. UM, THEIR WHOLE FIVE YEAR PLAN IS ABOUT 50 MILLION AND SAME WITH CAMP VERDE FOR FIVE YEARS. UM, SO PROJECTS THAT AREN'T QUITE ON THE SCALE WE HAVE, UM, BUT THEY DO NOT USE IMPACT FEES, WHICH IS CERTAINLY AN OPTION FOR A COMMUNITY, BUT IT DOES MEAN THAT YOU'RE USING REVENUE FROM OTHER REVENUE STREAMS THAT COULD BE DEDICATED TO NON-IMPACT FEE ELIGIBLE PROJECTS OR TO OPERATIONS OR TO OTHER PRIORITIES. UM, SO IT'S JUST, IT'S A PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENCE. BUT I DID WANNA POINT THAT OUT AS WE GO IN AND YOU SAY LIKE, WHY DID WE PICK THESE CITIES? AND IT'S REALLY BECAUSE WE WANTED TO HAVE SOME THAT DIDN'T HAVE PROPERTY TAX. 'CAUSE I KNOW YOU HAD ASKED FOR THAT. AND THEN ALSO THAT WERE JUST KIND OF GAVE US AN IDEA OF WHAT DIFFERENT CITIES AROUND THE STATE ARE DOING, UM, BASED ON WHEN THEY ADOPTED THE FEES, WHAT KIND OF FEES THEY'RE ADOPTING. AND A LOT OF IT IS BASED ON THE SERVICES THAT A COMMUNITY PROVIDES, THE SPECIFIC GEOGRAPHY AND THE BUILD OUT, AND THEN WHETHER THEY HAVE AVAILABLE ALTERNATIVE REVENUE STREAMS. SO IT WAS A REALLY INTERESTING RESEARCH PROJECT. I I, I ACTUALLY REALLY ENJOYED IT, BUT IT WAS REALLY HARD. SO THESE ARE THE CITIES I REVIEWED AND WHENEVER I GIVE A PRESENTATION, IT'S GONNA BE FULL OF COLOR BECAUSE LIKE I'M ALL ABOUT COLOR, SO, SO IF YOU'RE NOT TOTALLY INTO SEEING COLOR, YOU CAN BE LIKE, BARBARA, STOP. BUT YOU'LL PROBABLY SEE THIS WHENEVER I DO THEM. SO WE FOCUSED ON THESE FIVE FLAGSTAFF, GILBERT, FOUNTAIN HILLS, APACHE JUNCTION, AND KINGMAN. VERY DIFFERENT CITIES, VERY DIFFERENT FROM US, VERY DIFFERENT FROM EACH OTHER, BUT THEY GIVE US A KIND OF IDEA ACROSS THE STATE OF WHAT DIFFERENT CITIES ARE DOING, HOW THEY'RE USING IMPACT FEES AND LIKE IN THE CASE OF FLAGSTAFF THAT ONLY HAS POLICE AND FIRE IMPACT FEES. AS WE GET TO LOOKING AT THEIR MODEL, YOU CAN SEE WHY THAT IS. WHEREAS YOU HAVE LIKE GILBERT THAT HAS FIVE CATEGORIES, KINGMAN HAS FOUR, YOU KNOW, SO I STARTED OUT LOOKING AT PROPERTY TAX BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ONE BARBARA JUST, SORRY, ONE INTERRUPTION. UM, ANNETTE, WE, WE FOUND THE PRESENTATION, WE WERE LOOKING FOR IT AND , IT'S LIKE, HEY, WAIT A SECOND, WHERE IS IT? SO IT'S IN THE PACKET. YES. WE WERE LOOKING, YES, BECAUSE UH, THIS GROUP ACTUALLY SUBMITTED THEIR PRESENTATION EARLY. YES, THANK, THANK YOU ON TIME. SO SORRY TO CAUSE THE HEART ATTACK THERE, BUT WE FOUND IT. SO THANK YOU. PACKET PAGE. WHAT? WELL WE'RE ON 1 72 RIGHT NOW. OR 1 73 I GUESS. YEAH, IT STARTS ON ONE 70 AND GOES TO ONE 90. WOW. THERE YOU GO. SO APOLOGIES FOR THAT, BUT YAY ME. NO, YOU DID, YOU DID THE RIGHT THING. THANK YOU. I, I'M KIDDING. I HAD A LOT, A LOT OF HELP. UM, SO PROPERTY TAX IS A REALLY INTERESTING THING IN ARIZONA. AND THIS IS UM, SOME OTHER STATES DO HAVE THIS. TEXAS HAS A SIMILAR MODEL BUT THEY DON'T CALL IT THE SAME THINGS. UM, THERE'S PRIMARY PROPERTY TAX WHICH IS LIMITED TO 1% OF THE PROPERTY'S LIMITED VALUE, WHICH IS DEFINED BY THE CONSTITUTION. UM, AND THAT IS FOR GENERAL OPERATIONS OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, NOT FOR CAPITAL PROJECTS. SO IT REQUIRES AN ELECTION LIKE ANY PROPERTY TAX, BUT THAT'S WHAT A PRIMARY PROPERTY TAX IS. SECONDARY IS LEVIED SPECIFICALLY FOR VOTER APPROVED PROJECTS LIKE BONDS FOR INFRASTRUCTURE IMPROVEMENTS. SAME DEAL AS FAR AS VOTING, BUT THEY AREN'T THE SAME LIKE A PRIMARY PROPERTY TAX YOU ADOPT AND IT COVERS YOUR OPERATIONS, RIGHT? THE SECONDARY IS LINKED SPECIFICALLY TO REPAYING THE BONDS FOR WHATEVER PROJECT THE PEOPLE HAVE APPROVED. SO THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE THERE, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS REALLY INTERESTING. UM, SO WITHIN OUR UM, SAMPLE, FLAGSTAFF HAS A PRIMARY AND A SECONDARY PROPERTY TAX. GILBERT HAS A PRIMARY ONLY, SO ONLY ONE FOR OPERATIONS. [01:55:01] AND THEN THE OTHER FOUR CITIES DON'T HAVE, WELL THE OTHER THREE AND US DON'T HAVE PROPERTY TAX. SO OTHER REVENUES. THIS WAS A REALLY KEY BECAUSE IT KIND OF GAVE ME AN IDEA OF HOW SOME OF THE CITIES THAT EITHER AREN'T USING DIFF OR AREN'T USING AS MANY CATEGORIES OF DIFF ARE ACTUALLY DOING THAT AND FUNDING THAT WITHIN THEIR, UH, REVENUE STREAMS. SO DIFFERENT REVENUE SOURCES THAT CAN OFFSET THE NEED FOR A DIFF ARE DEDICATED TAXES TO A SPECIFIC PURPOSE, COUNTY OR STATE INVESTMENTS AND JUST ASSIGNMENT OF OTHER REVENUE. UM, REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT ARE THAT REVENUE SOURCES MUST NOT EXPIRE WITHIN SORT OF THE 10 YEAR TIME HORIZON OF THE PLAN. AND YOU CANNOT REALLOCATE FUNDS FROM LIKE ONE DIFF CATEGORY TO ANOTHER. SO IF YOU'RE CHARGING FOR POLICE, YOU CAN'T USE IT FOR FIRE OR FOR STREETS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO FLAGSTAFF WAS A GREAT EXAMPLE. THEY ACTUALLY HAVE FOUR TRANSACTION PRIVILEGED TAXES, SALES TAXES THAT ARE DEDICATED SPECIFICALLY TO TRANSPORTATION THINGS, WHICH I WAS LIKE, DANG, THAT'S A LOT. SO THEY HAVE A TOTAL OF 1.28, 1% SALES TAX THAT IS SPECIFICALLY DEDICATED TO TRANSIT, TRANSPORTATION, INFRASTRUCTURE, ALL THE STUFF TO DO WITH STREETS, TRANSPORTATION AND SIDEWALKS, ALL OF THOSE. SO THAT'S MORE THAN $30 MILLION ANNUALLY. LAST YEAR IT WAS 36 MILLION. SO FOR THEM THEY DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ANY TRANSPORTATION RELATED DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEE OR AT LEAST AT THIS POINT THEY DON'T. QUESTION. YES. I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD. THANK YOU. CAN YOU GO BACK TO THAT SLIDE? YES, ABSOLUTELY. SO ALL FOUR TPTS WERE VOTER APPROVED. I DON'T KNOW HOW THE TRANSACTION PRIVILEGE I SORRY, I DID NOT LOOK THAT UP. I DID, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER. THEY NORMALLY WOULD BE RIGHT. KURT ARE TPTS. I DIDN'T THINK THOSE ARE 'CAUSE THEY'RE SALES TAXES. OH YEAH. OKAY. YEAH. SO THESE ARE, THESE ARE SALES TAXES, THEY'RE NOT PROPERTY TAXES. I KNOW ALL THE PROPERTY TAX RELATED STUFF GOES TO THE VOTERS. AND THEN YOU WERE SAYING ON THE PRIOR SLIDE ABOUT LIKE STUFF THESE TAXES, THE, THE, THE FIRST BULLET ON THE RIGHT THAT THOSE, SO LIKE THOSE TPTS CANNOT EXPIRE WITHIN 10 YEARS, RIGHT? IF THEY HAVE A SUNSET DATE AND YOU'RE WORKING ON AN IMPACT FEE THING AND YOU'RE GOING TO USE ONE AS AN OFFSET. LIKE SAY YOU'VE COME UP WITH $12 MILLION THAT YOU HAVE TO SPEND ON POLICE IN THE NEXT 10 YEARS AND YOU SAY, WELL I'VE GOT THIS, THIS TPT THAT I COULD USE TO OFFSET, BUT IT HAS A SUNSET OF 2030, YOU CAN'T USE THAT REVENUE STREAM AS AN OFFSET BECAUSE IT DOESN'T COVER THE FULL 10 YEAR TIMEFRAME. AND THOSE TPTS ARE JUST STRAIGHT UP ADDED ON AS SALES TAX. YEP. AND DO WE KNOW IF THERE'S EXCLUSIONS LIKE YOU KNOW, FOOD STUFF LIKE THAT? OR IS IT THAT THAT, I DON'T KNOW. I DIDN'T LOOK INTO THE, THE FUNCTION OF EACH OF THEM OTHER THAN THAT. I KNOW LIKE THE ONE, THE 0.295 IS SPECIFIC TO TRANSIT. SO I WOULD SAY THAT ONE PROBABLY DOESN'T REALLY FUND STREETS, BUT THE OTHERS SEEM TO BE MORE OPEN-ENDED WITH WHAT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO BE USED FOR WITHIN THE TRANSPORTATION GENERAL. YOU KNOW? YEAH. THE REASON I'M ASKING IS JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO'S ACTUALLY PAYING THOSE TAXES. IS IT PEOPLE THAT ARE MAKING USE OF TRANSPORTATION AND TRANSIT OR IS IT, IS EVERYBODY IN FLAGSTAFF GETTING HIT THAT'S JUST ASKING OUT LOUD. SO THANK YOU AND, AND I CAN LOOK INTO THAT AND GET BACK TO YOU. I WOULD GUESS BY THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THEY'RE COLLECTING, IT'S CLOSE TO EVERYBODY. THERE'S PROBABLY NOT A LOT OF EXEMPTIONS. SO IN FLAGSTAFF THEIR, PARDON ME, THEIR DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEES WERE EFFECTIVE IN 2021, WHICH IS QUITE A WHILE AGO. AND IT'S GONNA BE SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GONNA SEE IS THAT THE CITIES THAT ADOPTED THEIR FEES EARLIER HAVE MUCH LOWER FEES. UM, 'CAUSE WE HAVE SEEN SO MUCH INFLATION IN THE LAST FEW YEARS. UM, THEY DO LEVY A 0.8% SECONDARY PROPERTY TAX AS WELL. SO THEY'VE GOT SOME PRETTY, UM, SOME PRETTY GOOD TAX REVENUE COMING IN. BUT THESE ARE THEIR FEES PER UNIT FOR UM, RESIDENTIAL AND THEN FOR NON-RESIDENTIAL FOR THE FEES PER SQUARE FOOT, WHICH IS PRETTY STANDARD, THE AMOUNTS VARY OUTRAGEOUSLY. AND THEY HAVE INTERESTING THINGS THAT I DIDN'T SEE IN OTHER CITIES. I DIDN'T SEE IN NURSING HOME IN ASSISTED LIVING THAT WAS, OH THAT'S UNIQUE TO FLAGSTAFF. I MEAN IT MAY NOT BE UNIQUE. IT WAS [02:00:01] UNIQUE IN THIS GROUP TO FLAGSTAFF. I SHOULD BE CLEAR, UM, GILBERT, THEIR FEES WERE JUST ADOPTED IN JULY OF THIS YEAR. SO THEIR FEES WHEN WE LOOK AT THESE ARE ACTUALLY MUCH CLOSER TO THE PROPOSED FEES FOR THE CITY OF SEDONA. OUR RESIDENTIAL FEES ARE NOT FLAT LIKE THIS. THEY'RE GRADUATED FROM LIKE UNDER 700 FEET AND THEN IT GOES ALL THE WAY UP TO 3,700 AND OVER. UM, SO WHEN THEY'RE SAYING A SINGLE UNIT IS, YOU KNOW, 16,000, OURS VARIES CONSIDERABLY FROM THAT. IT'S MUCH LOWER AND THEN HIGHER IF IT'S A MUCH LARGER DWELLING. UM, THEIR NON-RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, UM, WAS LESS BROKEN OUT THAN FLAGSTAFF, BUT THEIR UH, FEES PER SQUARE FOOT ARE MUCH, MUCH HIGHER. AS YOU CAN SEE, WE GO FROM LIKE 40 CENTS, 10 CENTS, 50 CENTS, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? THESE ARE PRETTY SMALL. AND THEN HERE WE'VE GOT LIKE, THIS IS PER THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT, SO THIS IS 0.66, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, BUT THEY'RE STILL QUITE A BIT HIGHER. SO IN FOUNTAIN HILLS THESE WERE EFFECTIVE IN 2020. SO THESE ARE FAIRLY LOW AGAIN. AND THAT'S REALLY THE POINT I WANNA MAKE WITH SOME OF THESE IS THAT THE FEES ARE LOWER. AND IT ALSO DEPENDS TOO ON THINGS LIKE HOW BUILT OUT THE COMMUNITY IS AND WHAT THEIR SPECIFIC NEEDS ARE. AND IN FOUNTAIN HILLS THEIR DEVELOPMENT IS LIMITED TO THE NORTHERN PART OF THEIR CITY. CITY. THEY'RE FAIRLY BUILT OUT AND THE ONLY IDENTIFIED NEEDS IN THEIR STUDY WERE REALLY EXPANSION OF FIRE SERVICES IN THAT AREA. UM, AND THEN PARKS AS PEOPLE MOVE IN AND THE STREETS, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE GONNA HAVE IMPACTS TO YOUR STREETS. BUT THESE ARE, THESE FEES ARE PRETTY OLD APACHE JUNCTION. UM, ALSO EFFECTIVE 2022, SO A LITTLE CLOSER, BUT STILL ANYTHING SORT OF 2022 AND BEFORE SEEMS TO BE FAIRLY LOW. UM, THEY HAVE THE ASSISTED LIVING, ACTUALLY I HAD FORGOTTEN ABOUT THAT ONE. THEY DON'T HAVE NURSING HOMES. I GUESS IT'S INCLUDED IN ASSISTED LIVING. IT'S INTEREST. YEAH, I JUST FIND IT INTERESTING THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF FEES THAT THE CITIES HAVE. KINGMAN HAS VERY SPECIFIC LIKE MOBILE HOME FEES AND THEN THEY ALSO HAVE THE ASSISTED LIVING, BUT NOT THE NURSING HOME. I APOLOGIZE, I SAID BOTH WITH FLAGSTAFF BEING UNIQUE, BUT NO, IT'S THE NURSING HOME THEY WERE UNIQUE WITH. UM, AND THEIR FEES ARE ALSO QUITE, QUITE LOW. KINGMAN IS A LITTLE BIT UNIQUE BECAUSE THEY HAD IMPACT FEES BACK IN 2006 AND THEY, AND THEY HAD THEM UNTIL 2011 WHEN THEY DECIDED AFTER, YOU KNOW, THE GREAT RECESSION AND THEY FELT LIKE THE IMPACT FEES MIGHT BE INFLUENCING THE DECISION OF DEVELOPERS NOT TO DEVELOP IN KINGMAN. SO THEY ELIMINATED THEIR IMPACT FEES. THEY DID SEE A GRADUAL INCREASE IN DEVELOPMENT, BUT IT TURNS OUT THAT THAT GRADUAL INCREASE ACTUALLY MIRRORS KIND OF EVERYONE ELSE'S INCREASE AT THE SAME TIME. THERE WAS NO MEASURABLE IMPACT AS TO WHETHER THERE WAS A FEE OR NOT A FEE THAT MADE IT DIFFERENT FROM ANYONE ELSE WHEN THEY ELIMINATED IT. OOPS. THOUGHT. OKAY, SO THE IMPACT OF TIMING. I TALKED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE. THE EARLIER ONES, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY WERE KIND OF DURING THAT ECONOMIC UNCERTAINTY OF THE PANDEMIC. THERE WAS LOWER INFLATION, CONSTRUCTION COSTS WERE LOWER, BUT THEY WERE STARTING TO GO A LITTLE CRAZY. BUT AT THE TIME I THINK THAT ECONOMIC AND UNCERTAINTY DROVE A LOT OF DECISION MAKING IN A SENSE THAT LIKE YOU DIDN'T WANT TO PUT YOURSELF IN A POSITION AS A CITY WHERE YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS HAPPENING AND WHAT THE ECONOMICS WERE GONNA LOOK LIKE. AND I THINK THAT DRIVES SOME OF THESE LOWER FEES. UM, BUT WE DO KNOW THAT OVER TIME THESE FEES ARE NOT ALIGNED WITH THE REALITY OF THE COST OF THE PROJECTS. SO THEY REALLY DO NEED TO ALIGN. AND EVEN WHEN THEY SEEM REALLY HIGH, IF, IF THE FEES ARE TOO LOW, THE CITY HAS TO USE NON DIFF REVENUE TO OFFSET THE INCREASE IN THE COST IF THEY STILL WANT TO DO THE PROJECT OR THEY CAN UPDATE THE FEES TO REFLECT ACTUAL COSTS OR THEY CAN ALLOW SERVICE LEVELS TO DROP IN COMPARISON TO THOSE PRE PANDEMIC LEVELS OR PRE-IMPACT FEE LEVELS. BECAUSE IF YOU SET YOUR FEES AT A, AT A RATE THAT DOESN'T ACTUALLY COVER THE, THE KNOWN SORT OF DIFF ELIGIBLE PROJECTS, [02:05:01] THEN EITHER YOU'RE NOT GONNA DO THE PROJECTS, YOU HAVE TO FIND OTHER REVENUE STREAMS OR YOU HAVE TO BASICALLY SET ASIDE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU WERE WANTING TO DO WITH THAT MONEY. SO THESE ARE THE PROPOSED FEES IN SEDONA. AND I HAD TO PUT THIS ON TWO SLIDES BECAUSE OURS ARE MUCH MORE DETAILED. UM, I DO THINK THERE WAS SOME GOOD LOGIC TO THIS IN NOT CHARGING EXACTLY THE SAME ACROSS THE BOARD. AND IT'S 47 0 1, NOT 37 MY BAD. UM, AND WE JUST HAVE THESE THREE AREAS, PARKS AND RECREATION, POLICE AND STREETS THAT WE KNOW ARE GONNA HAVE THE IMPACT AS WE HAVE MORE DEVELOPMENT AND THIS RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, THESE FEES WOULD APPLY TO SINGLE FAMILY HOMES AND ALSO TO MULTI-FAMILY DEVELOPMENTS. SO IF YOU HAVE LIKE THIS EPICALLY LUXURIOUS THING WITH LIKE 47, 47 50 SQUARE FEET AND 16 UNITS, EACH UNIT'S GONNA COST THAT 24,000. YES. AND SO WE JUST FINISHED TALKING ABOUT ADUS AND SO A 750 SQUARE FOOT 80 DU WOULD HAVE A $9,419 DIFF FEE ASSOCIATED WITH IT. I I THINK THAT'S RIGHT. YES. I'M NOT TOTALLY SURE 'CAUSE I DIDN'T REALLY RESEARCH IT IN A DU LAND. SO STEVE, WHEN SOMEONE PULLS A BUILDING PERMIT, IS THE REQUIREMENT TO PAY THE IMPACT FEE BASED ON ADDING NEW CONNECTIONS OR IS IT JUST STRAIGHT UP ANY, 'CAUSE I DOUBT WE CHARGE IT ON. ARE WE CHARGING IT ON ACCESSORIES? SO WE'RE, WE'RE NO DIFFERENT THAN IF A HOUSE WERE TO PUT ON AN ADDITION. IF THERE'S ADDITIONAL SQUARE FOOTAGE, UM, TO THAT PROPERTY THAT WOULD BE ASSESSED WELL, IT WOULD BE THAT ADDITIONAL SQUARE FOOTAGE, UH, FOR THIS, UH, WITH WITHIN OUR, UH, EXISTING, UH, FEES. SO IF IT WAS A 500 SQUARE FOOT ADDITION, THEN IT WOULD BE BASED UPON, UM, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, EXCUSE ME, WHAT THE TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE IS NOW AND WHAT IT WOULD'VE BEEN BACK THEN. AND THEN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO. SO IF THE CURRENT HOUSE, UH, WAS TWENTY SEVEN HUNDRED AND FIFTY FIFTY SQUARE FOOT AND THEY PUT ON ANOTHER 200 SQUARE FOOT, THEN THE DIFFS WOULD NOT CHANGE 'CAUSE IT'D BE WITHIN THE SAME RANGE. OH, I SEE. IN THE SAME CATEGORY. YOU GET THAT IT DID. SO IT'S NOT AS BAD AS WHAT I THREW OUT THERE BECAUSE IT'S, I PUT OUT THERE AS IF IT WAS FROM SCRATCH FROM UNBUILT LAND. SO IT'S ONLY THE INCREMENTAL IMPACT. SO MOST LIKELY WHEN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE DIFFERING INCREMENTS THERE, YOU'RE LOOKING AT SOMEWHERE BETWEEN WHAT, 1500 TO, TO $2,000 MAYBE SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN UNLESS YOU HIT ONE OF THE BOUNDARIES. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. IF YOU HIT ONE OF THE BOUNDARIES, THEN YOU'RE JUST LOOKING AT A, THE BIGGEST STEP IS WHAT, FROM 1200 TO 1201. RIGHT? THAT'S LIKE 2,600 BUCKS. MOST OF THEM ARE LESS. OKAY, THANK YOU. THAT'S FINE. AND THANK YOU STEVE. I'M GLAD YOU'RE HERE. OKAY, SO THE PROPOSED NON-RESIDENTIAL AND OURS ARE PER SQUARE FOOT AS OPPOSED TO LIKE PER THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT OR WHATEVER. SO WE HAVE INDUSTRIAL COMMERCIAL OFFICE, INSTITUTIONAL AND LODGING. LODGING BEING UH, THE HIGHEST. AND THEN IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND LIKE HOW THE FEES WOULD IMPACT THE COST. YES MA'AM. GO AHEAD MELISSA. UM, SO ON SOME OF THE OTHER ONES THAT YOU'VE SHOWN WHERE YOU HAD LODGING, IT HAD LIKE PER ROOM. MM-HMM THE FEE WAS PER ROOM. SO HERE WE DON'T SAY THAT. SO I'M ASSUMING THIS IS HOW, LIKE HOW IS THIS GOING TO BE DETERMINED? HOW MUCH THEY PAY? IS IT SQUARE FOOTAGE? DO, DO YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? LIKE THE OTHER ONES IT SAID PER ROOM AND THIS SAYS NOTHING. SO FEES PER SQUARE FOOT. RIGHT. SO THEN IF IT'S SQUARE FOOT AND STEVE, I WANNA CHECK WITH YOU ON THAT. THAT'S REALLY DIFFERENT. HOW IS THE LODGING ONE DETERMINED AND BEN IS ON AS WELL, OUR CONSULTANT WHO PREPARED ALL THIS SO HE CAN ALSO CLARIFY THE OH GOOD. I THINK IT'S PER ROOM. [02:10:01] HI BEN. UH, GOOD EVENING EVERYONE. UH, MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBERS, UH, THE LODGING FEES, UH, THE PROPOSED LODGING FEES ARE ASSESSED PER ROOM. OH, EXCELLENT. OKAY. THAT MAKES ACTUALLY MUCH MORE SENSE. 'CAUSE I THOUGHT WE WERE JUST REALLY KILLING THE HOTELS. UM, I'M REALLY GLAD TO HEAR THAT. MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE JUST HAD PARENTHETICALLY LODGING PER ROOM. THANK YOU BEN. UM, BECAUSE THAT MAKES A LOT MORE SENSE. UM, IT SEEMS REALLY HIGH OTHERWISE. SO CAN WE GO BACK THEN, SINCE BEN IS ON THE LINE TO THE, TO THE RESIDENTIAL? YES MA'AM. SO BEN, IF SOMEBODY BILLS AN ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE ON THEIR PROPERTY AND IT'S 700 SQUARE FEET OR LESS, 500 SQUARE FEET. THEY DON'T PAY $7,381. UH, SO I, I WOULD NEED TO LOOK AT THE, THE WORDING IN THE ORDINANCE, UH, BECAUSE THE, THE FEES ARE ASSESSED PER UNIT. UM, BUT IT DEPENDS ON THE WAY THAT YOUR ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN, WRITTEN FOR THOSE ADUS. SO IF IT'S CONSIDERED AS AN EXPANSION, THEN AS LONG AS YOU DON'T CROSS ONE OF THOSE THRESHOLDS, UH, THEN THERE'S NO FEE INCREASE. UH, IF IT'S WRITTEN WHERE IT IS A, YOU KNOW, SEPARATE STRUCTURE IS CONSIDERED A SEPARATE STRUCTURE FROM THE ORIGINAL, THEN YOU WOULD BE ASSESSED THE, THE FEE BASED ON THE, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THAT A DU. THAT MIGHT BE A REASON WHY HAVING JUST ONE ADDRESS ASSIGNED TO THE LOT IS BENEFICIAL. THERE YOU GO. YOU GET THAT KATHY? MM-HMM. . I DON'T THINK THAT'S RELEVANT. SO I JUST WANT TO GO, GO THROUGH THIS. AGAIN. THIS IS NOT AN ADDITION TO A HOUSE. I GET AN ADDITION. YOU ADD THE SQUARE FOOTAGE UP. THIS IS A COMPLETELY SEPARATE STANDALONE STRUCTURE, AND YOU'RE STILL GONNA ADD THIS SQUARE FOOTAGE BETWEEN THE TWO STRUCTURES, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE SEPARATE. IF THE WAY THE ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN IS, YOU KNOW, FOR SEPARATE STRUCTURES, THEN YOU WOULD NEED TO ASSESS THE FEE AND THIS FEE SCHEDULE. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT RELATED TO THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THAT. UH, SO IF IT'S A, YOU KNOW, 500 SQUARE FOOT 80 U, THEN THEY WOULD, YOU KNOW, IT'S A SEPARATE STRUCTURE, THEN THEY WOULD BE CHARGED AT 700 OR LESS. UH, CATEGORY. WE CAN LOOK IT UP WHILE YOU'RE YEP. IT LOOKED LIKE STEVE WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING. SO I WANTED TO GIVE HIM AN OPPORTUNITY TO RESPOND IF HE WANTS TO. MY, MY SQUINTING OF MY EYES WAS TRYING TO THINK OF WHAT THE ORDINANCE SAID. SO, SORRY. THANK YOU THOUGH. BUT I MEAN, THAT ORDINANCE IS ONE WE DRAFTED. IT COULD SAY WHATEVER WE WANT IT TO SAY. CORRECT. IT'S, IT'S IN CITY CODE. I'M REVIEWING IT RIGHT NOW. I'VE NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT QUESTION BEFORE. SHALL WE, SHALL WE GO ON WHILE KURT'S LOOKING AT IT? MM-HMM. OKAY. OKAY. SO TALKING ABOUT HOW THE PROPOSED FEES WOULD WORK, NOW, I DIDN'T DO EIGHTIES FOR THIS. I TOOK, UM, CONSTRUCTION THAT HAS BEEN PERMITTED AND THEN ROUNDED IT A BIT. SO IT WASN'T NECESSARILY IDENTIFIABLE IF SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, WANTED TO LOOK AT IT. SO I HAD FOUR HOMES, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES THAT WERE BUILT. UM, DEVELOPERS WHEN THEY DO IS REPORT A COST PER SQUARE FOOT TO THE CITY. AND SOME OF OUR FEES ARE BASED ON THAT. SO SOME OF THEM REPORT A MUCH LOWER COST PER SQUARE FOOT THAN OTHERS DO. UM, THEY VARY PRETTY WIDELY. I DIDN'T USE THE ONES THAT SAID IT WAS ONLY LIKE $120 PER SQUARE FOOT BECAUSE I FOUND THAT UNREASONABLY LOW. UM, STEVE AND AND LAURA IN COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT TOLD ME THAT IT MORE LIKELY WAS CLOSER TO LIKE $700 A SQUARE FOOT, BUT I WENT AHEAD AND DID THIS, THIS FIRST, SORT OF FIRST GLANCE AT IT USING WHAT THE DEVELOPERS SAID THEIR COSTS WERE, WHICH IS 3 0 5 4 92 80, AND 300 PER SQUARE FOOT. WHICH, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND WHAT YOUR FINISHES ARE, IT, IT COULD BE, IT'S JUST A LITTLE HARD TO DO APPLES TO APPLES. SO WE WILL LOOK AT THIS. AND THEN I HAVE ONE WHERE I SORT OF NORMALIZED IT USING $500 PER SQUARE FOOT FOR EACH OF THESE FOUR, SO THAT WE COULD KIND [02:15:01] OF SEE ALL THINGS EQUAL, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH OF THE PROJECT IS THE FEE REALLY COSTING, UM, THE DEVELOPER. SO IN THIS CASE, BARBARA, SORRY, BARBARA, BUT THOSE ESTIMATED COST PER SQUARE FOOT, I THINK I READ SOMEWHERE ELSE. AREN'T THOSE, UH, EXCLUDING THE LAND? YES. THAT, THAT'S IMPORTANT. SO I DON'T THINK THOSE NUMBERS ARE CRAZY, UH, LOW BY ANY STRETCH. UM, WHEN YOU EXCLUDE THE LAND. LIKE THOSE SEEM REASONABLE BASED ON SOMEBODY WHO HAPPENS TO BE RENOVATING RIGHT NOW. AND WHAT YEAR WERE THESE BUILT? THESE ARE ALL LIKE TODAY. OKAY, THAT'S GOOD. YEAH. THIS IS, THIS WAS A LIST I GOT FROM COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT OF CURRENT, UH, PERMITTED CONSTRUCTION. SO WHAT I, WHAT I WANTED TO LOOK AT REALLY WAS WHAT PERCENT OF THEIR ESTIMATED OVERALL COST WAS GOING TO BE, LIKE, HOW MUCH THAT IMPACT WAS GONNA BE PERCENTAGE WISE. AND OUR CURRENT IMPACT FEES WERE BETWEEN 0.7% AND 1.5%. THE PROPOSED IMPACT FEES GO FROM 1.8%, UM, FOR THE LARGEST HOME TO 3.1% FOR THE SMALLEST. SO IF I NORMALIZE THOSE COSTS AT $500 PER SQUARE FOOT, WHICH MAY BE HIGH, YOU KNOW, BUT I WANTED, I WANTED IT JUST TO BE EQUAL SO WE WOULD HAVE MORE OF AN IDEA. UM, THE PERCENT OF COST OF THE NEW IMPACT FEES IS 1.1 TO 1.9%. AND OBVIOUSLY SOMEBODY WHO CAN KEEP THOSE COSTS LOW, THAT PERCENTAGE IS GONNA GO A LITTLE HIGHER JUST BECAUSE THAT'S NOT ELASTIC. OKAY. AND THEN MULTI HEARING COUNCIL, OH, SORRY. SORRY BARBARA. IF I NO, GO AHEAD, KURT. THE, THE CITY CODES READS THAT THE DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEE SHALL BE ASSESSED ON THE ADDITIONAL SERVICE UNITS RESULTING FROM THE EXPANSION OR CHANGE. UH, SO IT'S NOT A WHOLE NEW CHARGE. AND, AND TO ME THAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE. UM, SO IT'S WHAT, UH, STEVE SAID. SO IT'D BE THE EXPANDED USE. AND SO IF IT KICKS YOU INTO A NEW BRACKET, YOU'RE NOW HAVING A LARGER DEMAND ON THE CITY, YOU'RE HAVING A LARGER IMPACT, UNLESS YOU'LL PAY THE ON WHAT THE EXPANSION WAS, NOT A, NOT A FULL NEW CHARGE FOR JUST, UH, ADDING ON OR BUILDING A DU OR HOWEVER YOU WANNA DO IT ON YOUR, ON THAT PROPERTY. THANK YOU, KURT. I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. SO THE MULTI-FAMILY FEES, THIS IS ALL MADE UP DATA. 'CAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE ANY LIKE, CURRENT PERMITTED THINGS TO USE THAT I COULD USE AS A COMPARISON. SO I JUST MADE THIS UP AS KIND OF A PROJECT THAT'S DOING LARGER UNITS AND A PROJECT THAT'S DOING SMALLER UNITS, PROJECTS ONE AND TWO. UM, YOU CAN SEE WHAT I DID THERE AS I DID, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY UNITS BETWEEN 12 AND 700, HOW MANY, YOU KNOW, AND THEN THE SMALLER ONES FOR PROJECT TWO. UM, IN THESE, UH, ALL THINGS KIND OF EQUAL, BUT JUST DIFFERENT SIZES OF UNITS, THE DIFF AS A PERCENTAGE OF THE ESTIMATED COST, UM, WAS ABOUT 1.5% AND 1.9%. SO WE HAD ALSO, UM, HAD DIRECTION FROM YOU ALL TO CONSIDER WHAT POTENTIAL FEE OFFSETS OR MITIGATION THERE COULD BE TO LOWER THE DIFF. UM, AND BEN CAN SPEAK TO THIS A LITTLE BETTER THAN I CAN, BUT I CAN GIVE YOU LIKE SOME IDEA. UM, WE CAN USE DEDICATED TAXES, UM, THE 0.5% TPT THAT WAS ADDED IN 2018 AND THEN MADE PERMANENT IN 2021 BECAUSE IT IS A PERMANENT TPT COULD BE USED. UM, BUT IT IS IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER THAT RIGHT NOW THAT'S USED FOR TRANSIT OPERATIONS AND PROJECTS. SO THOSE THINGS WOULD HAVE TO BE FUNDED FROM SOME OTHER REVENUE THAT THE CITY HAS. UM, OTHER OPTIONS WE HAVE IS THAT THE CITY CAN PAY ALL OR A PORTION OF THE DIFF FOR A DEVELOPMENT IF IT HAS A CLEAR PUBLIC BENEFIT. AND WE CAN ALSO WAIVE OTHER PERMIT FEES. UM, THAT PUBLIC BENEFIT IS REALLY CRITICAL BECAUSE WE CAN'T MAKE A GIFT OF PUBLIC FUNDS. SO, YOU KNOW, KIND OF LIKE A WORKFORCE OR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THOSE KIND OF DEVELOPMENTS, UM, THE CITY COULD CONSIDER THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, AND NOW I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO BEN FOR THE NEXT, UH, FEW SLIDES. YOU READY, BEN? I AM. THANK YOU. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO, UH, YOU KNOW, IN TALKING WITH STAFF, UH, AND THEN TAKING, YOU KNOW, THE, THE COMMENTS OF THE COUNCIL FROM THE PREVIOUS MEETING, [02:20:01] UM, YOU KNOW, WE WERE LOOKING AT WAYS, UM, WHERE WE, YOU KNOW, COULD POTENTIALLY REDUCE THE FEES. UH, AND SO, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS DISCUSSION OF, YOU KNOW, PROVIDING SOME TYPE OF CREDIT AGAINST THE STREET FEES, UH, RELATED TO, UM, ESSENTIALLY INELIGIBLE REVENUES. UH, SO BECAUSE YOU HAVE THIS, YOU KNOW, CIP UH, AND YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, SIM PROJECTS, UH, PROGRAMMED, UH, AND SORRY, I'M LOOKING OFF TO THE SIDE TO LOOK. UH, SO YOU'RE 2025 TO 34, UH, SIM PROJECTS, UH, YOU KNOW, TOTAL ABOUT $80 MILLION. UH, AND YOU KNOW OF THAT, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE PROJECTS ARE ELIGIBLE, UH, AS DEFINED BY ARIZONA'S ENABLING LEGISLATION. SOME ARE INELIGIBLE. UH, AND SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE BACK OUT ANY OF THOSE INELIGIBLE PROJECTS, UH, THEN YOU KNOW, ABOUT $39 MILLION OF THAT, UM, REPRESENTS, YOU KNOW, ELIGIBLE PROJECTS. AND THEN WE CAN BACK OUT ANY SORT OF, YOU KNOW, OTHER FUNDING MECHANISMS. SO GRANTS, UH, ALREADY PROGRAMMED TRANSPORTATION, SALES, TAX REVENUE, UM, THERE'S EVEN, YOU KNOW, 1% FOR THE ARTS AND WASTEWATER REVENUE. UH, AND SO WE CAN, YOU KNOW, BACK OUT THESE INELIGIBLE REVENUES TO SAY, ALRIGHT, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE USING AN INCREMENTAL METHODOLOGY, UH, THAT ALLOWS YOU THE FLEXIBILITY TO, YOU KNOW, FUND ANY TYPE OF, YOU KNOW, ELIGIBLE TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENT, UM, YOU'RE LIKELY GOING TO USE YOUR IMPACT FEES TOWARDS, YOU KNOW, THESE SIM PROJECTS THAT ARE ALREADY IN YOUR CIP. UH, AND SO WE COULD EXCLUDE A PORTION OR BASICALLY INCLUDE A CREDIT AGAINST THE IMPACT FEES THAT REPRESENT, UH, THAT INELIGIBLE FUNDING PORTION. UM, AND SO ESSENTIALLY BACKING OUT YOUR GRANT REVENUE AND YOUR TRANSPORTATION SALES TAX REVENUE, UM, THAT YOU'RE GONNA FUND THESE PROJECTS WITH. UH, AND SO ONCE WE DO THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN SAY THAT A ABOUT 42% OF, OF THE COST OF THESE SIM PROJECTS, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GONNA BE FUNDED WITH, YOU KNOW, GRANTS OR TRANSPORTATION SALES TAX. UH, SO WE COULD INCLUDE THIS CREDIT, UH, EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HAVE TO, UM, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, YOU'RE, YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO USE YOUR IMPACT FEES TO FUND THESE EXACT SAME PROJECTS. UM, THE ARGUMENT AGAINST INCLUDING IT IS THAT YOUR CIP IS LIKELY FISCALLY CONSTRAINED. SO IF YOU HAD ADDITIONAL REVENUE, YOU WOULD, YOU KNOW, LIKELY BUILD ADDITIONAL IMPROVEMENTS. UH, AND SO WE WANTED TO SHOW YOU, YOU KNOW, SOME OPTIONS TONIGHT, UH, THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, INCLUDE A CREDIT ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT'S NEEDED. UM, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, SORT OF THE, THE BEGINNING OF, UH, THIS PRESENTATION WAS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO SHOW YOU SOME OPTIONS AND IF YOU REDUCE IMPACT FEE REVENUES, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S GOING TO REDUCE A LEVEL OF SERVICE, SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO FUND IT WITH SOME OTHER, YOU KNOW, FUNDING MECHANISM. UM, BUT YOU KNOW, REALLY WHAT WE WANT TO SHOW YOU TONIGHT WAS JUST WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IF YOU DECIDED UNDER OPTION ONE TO GIVE A CREDIT FOR GRANTS AND TRANSPORTATION SALES TAX. AND THEN OPTION TWO IS A CREDIT FOR GRANTS, TRANSPORTATION, SALES, TAX, AND DEBT. UH, AND SO YOU CAN SEE THAT NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT A RANGE OF ABOUT $2,500, UH, TO ABOUT $8,200 ON THE RESIDENTIAL UNDER OPTION ONE VERSUS, UH, ABOUT 2200 UP TO ABOUT 7,200, UH, UNDER OPTION TWO. UH, AND THAT'S COMPARED TO, UM, THE PROPOSED FEES OF ABOUT 4,400 TO ABOUT 14,000. SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S A PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL CREDIT. UM, YOU KNOW, EQUALING ABOUT 42% ON OPTION ONE AND ABOUT APPROACHING 50% ON, UH, OPTION TWO. BUT AGAIN, JUST WANNA REMIND YOU THAT IF YOU PROVIDE A CREDIT HERE, IT'S ESSENTIALLY JUST REDUCING YOUR IMPACT FEE REVENUE, UM, WHICH LIKELY MEANS YOU'LL ISSUE MORE DEBT. UM, SO YOU ARE GONNA PASS THAT COST ON TO EXISTING DEVELOPMENT, UM, BY REDUCING ANY SORT OF IMPACT IN REVENUES. RIGHT. AND THEN I THINK THERE'S ONE MORE SLIDE. YEAH. SO THIS JUST SHOWS, UH, UNDER OPTION ONE, UH, LEFT SIDE PROPOSED FEES, UH, RIGHT SIDE WOULD BE THE, THE CURRENT FEES. UH, SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, AN INCREASE OF ABOUT, YOU KNOW, $2,000, A LITTLE OVER [02:25:01] $2,000, UH, A UNIT ON THE TOTAL FEES. SO PARKS, POLICE STREETS, UM, FOR YOUR, YOUR SMALLEST RESIDENTIAL UNIT. AND, UH, AN INCREASE OF A LITTLE OVER $8,000 ON YOUR LARGEST RESIDENTIAL UNITS. AND THEN THE NEXT SLIDE WOULD BE OPTION TWO. UM, SO THESE INCREASES SHOULD BE A LITTLE LESS BECAUSE THE, THE STREET CUTTINGS A LITTLE BIT MORE. UM, SO INCREASE OF, UH, RIGHT AT $2,000 IN THE SMALLEST RESIDENTIAL UNITS, UH, AND, UH, ABOUT $7,000, UM, ON THE, THE LARGEST RESIDENTIAL UNITS. AND I THINK THAT WAS THE FINAL THOUGHT. YEAH. SO ANY QUESTIONS RELATED TO THE POTENTIAL, UH, STREET FEE CREDITS? AND MR. MAYOR, IF I CAN JUST ADD, UM, THE REASON FOR FOCUSING ON THE TRANSPORTATION PORTION OF THE DIFF IS BECAUSE THAT MAKES UP THE BULK OF THE OVERALL, UH, DIFF THAT WE WOULD BE CHARGING IF THESE WERE IMPLEMENTED. AND, UM, IS THE ONE, YOU KNOW, THAT HAS THE MOST, UM, OPTIONS FOR THESE OFFSETS. YOU KNOW, THE PARKS AND THE POLICE. UM, D PORTIONS ARE A LOT SMALLER, WHICH I THINK YOU CAN SEE ON THE CHART. MM-HMM. AND SHALL I GO INTO LIKE THE ALTERNATIVE FEES IN ACTION NOW? OKAY, SO WITH THE OPTION ONE, I USED THE SAME SORT OF NORMALIZED COST FOR THE FOUR HOMES TO DETERMINE WHAT THE PERCENTAGE WOULD BE. AND IT DID, UM, BRING THOSE DOWN FROM 1.1 TO 0.8 AND THE HIGHEST FROM 1.9 TO 1.4. UM, SO IT DID, OBVIOUSLY, IT WOULD REDUCE, REDUCE THOSE. AND THEN IN OPTION TWO, UM, IT REDUCED, UM, THE SMALLEST HOME THE MOST, BUT IT REDUCED ALL, ALL FOUR OF THEM. AGAIN, AS, AS IT WOULD, SAME THING WITH MULTIFAMILY, IT REDUCED BY 0.37 AND 0.48%. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE STILL IN ONE POINT SOMETHING, BUT YOU KNOW, A LITTLE, A LITTLE BIT LESS FOR THOSE MULTIFAMILY FEES. AND THEN IN OPTION TWO, ALSO STILL OVER 1%, BUT A LITTLE BIT LOWER, UH, FOR EACH ONE OF THESE. AND WITH OPTION TWO. SORRY, UH, QUESTION. CAN BARBARA OR BEN, CAN YOU WALK ME THROUGH AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND OPTION ONE, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THE ADDITIONAL PIECE THAT MAKES UP OPTION TWO, IT'S THAT DEBT PIECE, BUT CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE DEBT IMPACT AGAIN, JUST WALK THROUGH THAT AGAIN OF WHAT, WHAT, WHAT MECHANISM IS OCCURRING AND HOW THAT'S CREATING THIS IMPACT? BEN, I'M GONNA LET YOU DO THAT ONE. UH, SO, UH, ARE YOU ASKING WHAT FUNDING MECHANISM IS CREATING THE CREDIT? YEAH, THE, THE, THE OPTION TWO ADDS ON TO OPTION ONE AND THAT, RIGHT? AND IN OPTION TWO, THAT ADDITIONAL PIECE IS DEBT FINANCING, RIGHT? YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT. THERE'S ABOUT $3 MILLION OF PROGRAMS DEBT FINANCING FOR ELIGIBLE IMPACT FEE PROJECTS IN YOUR CURRENT CIP RELATED TO SIM PROJECTS, DEBT ELIGIBLE, BUT NOT DEBT THAT WE'VE CURRENTLY ASSUMED. AND HAVE WE PLANNED THAT WE WOULD BE ASSUMING IT, ASSUMING THAT DEBT. SO THIS IS EVERYTHING THAT IS WITH AN IDENTIFIED FUNDING SOURCE IN THE CURRENT CIP RELATED TO SIM PROJECTS. SO MOST OF YOUR DEBTS RELATED TO SIM IS GOING TO INELIGIBLE PROJECTS. SO I THINK THAT THE PARKING GARAGE, UH, WAS ONE OF THEM, UH, WHICH TAKES A LOT OF THE, THE DEBT FINANCING. UM, THERE WERE A COUPLE OTHER WHERE IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE SORT OF FILLING GAPS, UM, BUT FOR THE MOST PART, IT LOOKS LIKE YOUR, YOUR PARKING GARAGE, UM, WAS MOST OF YOUR DEBT. SO THIS IS, UM, DEBT THAT I GUESS YOU PLANNED TO ISSUE OR YOU PROGRAMMED, UH, YOU KNOW, ISSUANCE OF DEBT FOR THESE, UH, FUTURE CENTER PROJECTS. [02:30:06] WE THINK WE'RE, IT'S FOR FUTURE DEBT WE THINK THAT WE WOULD BE UTILIZING, BUT WE'VE NOT SAID WE'RE GONNA DO THAT. RIGHT? I BELIEVE THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM BUDGET, UM, THAT WAS BUILT OUT WITH THE FORMER FINANCE DIRECTOR AND STAFF HAD IDENTIFIED CERTAIN PROJECTS THAT COULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR DEBT FINANCING IN THE FUTURE OR WOULD NEED DEBT FINANCING TO SUPPLEMENT ALL THE OTHER REVENUE STREAMS. AND I'M PRETTY SURE THOSE ARE THE DOCUMENTS THAT BEN HAS BEEN USING. UM, SO THEY'RE ESTIMATES, BUT NOTHING SAYS THAT YOU'VE MADE THE DECISION TO ACTUALLY ISSUE DEBT FOR THOSE PROJECTS. THEY'RE JUST PLACEHOLDERS. BUT IF WE SAID, OKAY, LOVE THIS OPTION TWO IDEA, AND THEN WE TURN AROUND AND SAY, BUT YEAH, WE DON'T WANT TO ISSUE MORE DEBT, THEN NOW WE'RE GOING TO REQUIRE OURSELVES TO PULL FROM LIKE THE GENERAL FUND OR OTHER REVENUE SOURCES. SO CORRECT. THERE IS, THERE IS A CONSEQUENCE TO CHOOSING OPTION TWO. IT IS FORCING A FUTURE DECISION THAT WE MAY NOT LIKE, IS MY INTERPRETATION. SO. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND IF I MIGHT ADD, YOU KNOW, IF, IF CONSTRUCTION COSTS CONTINUE TO INCREASE YOUR TOTAL SIM PROJECT COSTS ARE LIKELY TO INCREASE. AND SO YOU, YOU MIGHT BE PROVIDING A CREDIT THAT IS LARGER THAN YOU ACTUALLY NEED. UM, BECAUSE IF ALL THESE COSTS GO UP, UH, AND YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE FINDING OTHER REVENUE SOURCES, UM, YOU KNOW, THINGS MAY NOT ALIGN THE SAME WAY AS WE'RE PROJECTING, BUT KEEP IN MIND THAT IMPACT FEES ARE, YOU KNOW, BASED ON A, YOU KNOW, A POINT IN TIME. UH, AND SO WE HAVE TO USE, YOU KNOW, OUR, UM, YOU KNOW, OUR BEST ESTIMATE ON WHAT'S LIKELY TO HAPPEN. UM, BUT YOU KNOW, THE REASON WE DIDN'T INCLUDE A CREDIT ORIGINALLY WAS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S LIKELY THE COST WILL BE HIGHER, UH, AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT, IT IT'S LIKELY THAT IF YOU COULD GENERATE MORE FEE REVENUE, YOU WOULD OFFSET SOME OF THOSE FUNDING GAPS WITH IMPACT FEES AND ISSUE LESS DEBT. OKAY. BARBARA, CONTINUE ON. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO AS WE WERE, UM, SAYING IF YOU REDUCE THE IMPACT FEES WITH CREDITS OR IN, IN HOWEVER YOU WOULD WANT TO, THE REDUCTION IN AVAILABLE FUNDS IN OPTION ONE IS 7.1 MILLION. UM, THERE IT'S A $5.2 MILLION REDUCTION. UM, OPTION TWO, THERE'S $6.2 MILLION AVAILABLE AND A REDUCTION OF 6.1 MILLION. SO IT'S THAT 5.2 AND THAT 6.1 THAT WE RECREATE BASICALLY AS FUNDING GAPS WITH THE CREDIT THAT WE WILL HAVE TO PAY THROUGH SOME OTHER MECHANISM. SO I HAVE A QUESTION. GO AHEAD. IT SAYS, PROPOSED STREET STIFF FUNDS $12.3 MILLION OVER WHAT PERIOD OF TIME, BEN? IS THAT 10 YEARS? I THINK THAT'S 10 YEARS. IT'S GONNA BE OVER 10 YEARS. YEAH, IT'S 10 YEARS. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN PAYING FOR STREET IMPROVEMENTS THROUGH THE GENERAL FUND FOR A LONG, YOU KNOW, WE, WE MOVE MONEY EVERY YEAR FROM THE GENERAL FUND TO THE STREETS FUND WITHOUT AN ISSUE. AND I DON'T BELIEVE THE, THE, UM, IMPACT FEES WILL NECESSARILY STOP THAT BECAUSE ISN'T, SOME OF THAT IS FOR MAINTENANCE, WHICH IS NOT, OF COURSE DIFF ELIGIBLE. SO, YOU KNOW, WHILE THERE MAY BE LESS OF AN IMPACT TO THE GENERAL FUND, UM, I DON'T KNOW HOW SIGNIFICANT THAT WILL BE BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S NOT MAINTENANCE. DOES THAT SEEM RIGHT, ANDY? MM-HMM, . OKAY. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. DO YOU HAVE SOMEWHERE WHERE YOU ARE SHOWING WHAT THE REVENUE, THE DIFF REVENUE WOULD BE? THE REVENUE SHOULD MATCH THE TOTAL PROJECTS FOR THE, FOR THE 10 YEAR SPAN? LIKE IT'S INTENDED THAT THE AMOUNT OF FEES COLLECTED FOR THE STREET STIFF SHOULD ADD UP TO THAT [02:35:01] 12.3 MILLION. I'M SORRY, I DON'T HAVE IT IN THIS PRESENTATION THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, WITH STREETS, WE ANTICIPATE 12.3 WITH POLICE. IS THAT IN THE EXHIBIT A THAT YOU HAD TO PREPARE FOR THE PUBLIC NOTICE? 'CAUSE THAT IS IN THE PACKET. YEAH, I THINK IN THE PACKET WE HAVE THAT INFORMATION, EXHIBIT A IS A, IS A FORECAST OF OTHER REVENUES. YEAH. BUT I'M, UH, PACKET PAGE 1 52. THANK YOU. OKAY. IT'S SO GREAT TO HAVE SOMEONE ELSE ALSO WORKING ON THIS, SO I'M NOT LIKE DIGGING THROUGH THE PACKET WHILE AT THE SAME TIME. BUT HE'S HOME WITH HIS BUNNY SLIPPERS ON, SO I'M SORRY. HE'S SITTING AT HOME WITH, WITH HIS BUNNY SLIPPERS ON, SO HE'S NICE. RIGHT, RIGHT. SO HE'S LIKE ON IT. YEAH, I KNOW. AS, AS WE WOULD ALL BE RIGHT. AND YEAH. SO ON PACKET PAGE, WHAT PAGE DID YOU SAY? 1 52. OKAY. 1 52. OH, I'M LOOKING AT HIS PAGE NUMBER TOO. AND I'M LIKE GETTING CONFUSED. I'M LIKE, THIS IS 67. SO THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE THE STREETS FACILITIES IMPACT FEES, WHICH IS ABOUT 12.3 MILLION. AND WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER, THE OTHER FEES IS, ARE THOSE IN HERE AS WELL, BEN? YEAH, SO THE, THE REVENUE PROJECTIONS ARE THE, THE LAST PAGE OF EACH SECTION. SO FOR UH, POLICE, IT'S GONNA BE PACKET, UH, 1 38. OKAY. SO FOR POLICE, THE 10 YEAR, IT'S 3.1 MILLION. AND THEN, AND FOR PARKS IT'S 1 26. EXCELLENT. I YOU'D FIND IT BEFORE I DID. OKAY. SO PAR AND PARKS IS 4.7 MILLION, SO SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THOSE TWO THAN STREETS. I MEAN, EVEN ALL TOLD IS ABOUT $5 MILLION LESS THE TWO OF THEM COMBINED. SO ONE MORE, WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT 10 YEARS, BUT OUR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS DON'T GO OUT THAT FAR. WE DON'T HAVE A 10 YEAR FORECAST. I MEAN, YOU MAY HAVE COME UP WITH ONE, BUT WE HAVEN'T APPROVED ANYTHING. YEAH. IT'S JUST FUTURE YEAR, UH, PROJECTS. SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A 10 YEAR SPECIFIC FORECAST, BUT THERE'S FORECASTED PROJECTS YOU MIGHT SAY. SO THERE'S NOTHING IN THE POLICE. I'M AT THE POLICE RIGHT NOW. I'M AT PARKS AND REC, BUT I'M GONNA GO BACK TO POLICE. THERE'S NOTHING IN THE POLICE FOR LIKE A NEW POLICE BUILDING, WHICH WE TALKED ABOUT FROM TIME TO TIME, NEW FACILITY. SO THAT'S NOT EVEN INCLUDED IN HERE. CAN I ASK A CLARIFYING QUESTION THAT RELATES EXACTLY TO THAT? SO THESE NUMBERS, LIKE THAT 12.3, THAT'S NOT LIKE ALL FUTURE CIP STREET, RIGHT? EXPENDITURE. IT'S JUST THAT WHICH IS ATTRIBUTED TO BEING PAID FOR BY DIFF IT'S WHAT'S DIFF ELIGIBLE, RIGHT? EXACTLY. AND IN A CASE LIKE A POLICE FACILITY, THERE IS, UM, 2.1 MILLION IN HERE FOR POLICE FACILITIES. WHAT SPECIFICALLY THAT WOULD BE, UM, I CAN'T SPEAK TO, BUT THAT PORTION WOULD ONLY BE THAT SORT OF PERCENTAGE WE COULD ASSIGN TO NEW DEVELOPMENT AS OPPOSED TO EXISTING. RIGHT. BUT AT, AT ONE POINT WE TALKED ABOUT A WHOLE NEW BUILDING FOR THE POLICE, RIGHT. UH, WHICH WAS PROBABLY FIVE YEARS AGO OR SIX YEARS AGO, WHICH 8 MILLION AT THAT TIME WAS TOO LOW AT THAT TIME. MM-HMM, . SO BIG CAPITAL PROJECTS REALLY NOT IN HERE. RIGHT. EVEN THOUGH THEY WOULD BE ELIGIBLE. RIGHT. RIGHT. OR AT LEAST SOME PORTION OF THAT. YEAH. YEAH, EXACTLY. OKAY, THANKS. FROM A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT THEN, SO LIKE THAT 12.3, WHAT, WHAT WOULD, WHAT'S THE TOTAL 10 YEAR ANTICIPATED STREET FUND CIP NUMBER, RIGHT? BECAUSE I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO GET THAT SENSE OF PROPORTION AND HOLD ON, WE'RE SCROLLING. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE, THE, THE PROGRAM STEM PROJECTS, UM, YOU'RE, IT'S BASICALLY $80 MILLION, BUT ONLY ABOUT 39 MILLION OF THOSE ARE ELIGIBLE FOR DIFF FUNDING. AND THAT SECTION STARTS ON PAGE 1 39 OF YOUR PACKET, BUT THAT'S LESS THAN THE 12.3 HERE. THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. WELL, SO YOU, THE IMPACT FEES ARE GOING TO PAY A PORTION OF [02:40:01] YOUR PROGRAM SIM PROJECTS, RIGHT? YOU'LL HAVE, YOU KNOW, OTHER, OTHER REVENUE SOURCES, UM, YOU KNOW, SUCH AS TRANSPORTATION, SALES TAX AND GRANTS FUNDING, UH, THE REMAINDER OF THAT. RIGHT? BUT BEN, DIDN'T YOU JUST SAY THAT THE 10 YEAR STREET CIP WAS ONLY SEVEN OR 8 MILLION? 80, 88 0. OH, MR. ZERO. OKAY. A LITTLE HIGHER. JUST JUST A LITTLE. THAT MAKES MORE SENSE. THANK YOU. YEAH. SO IN REALITY, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT IT BRINGS IN AT LIKE 12.3 MILLION VERSUS 80 MILLION, THE WHILE THE FEES STILL SEEM INDIVIDUALLY HIGH, THE AMOUNT OF THE CONTRIBUTION VERSUS THE ACTUAL COST OVERALL TO THE COMMUNITY IS NOT, UM, OUT OF, OUT OF LINE WITH SORT OF GROWTH AND, AND IMPACT. OH, AND I, I'M NOT SURE I WOULD EQUATE LESS FUNDING WITH DECLINING SERVICE, FRANKLY, BECAUSE THE LESS FUNDING EQUALS FEWER PROJECTS. MAYBE IT JUST MEANS YOU PUSH 'EM OUT A YEAR OR TWO. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE DECLINING SERVICE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE NEW PROJECTS. SO IF WE HAD A SHARED USE PATH THAT WE PUSHED OUT FOR TWO YEARS, IT WOULDN'T BE THE END OF THE WORLD AT ALL. SO I THINK WE HAVE TO BALANCE OUR FEES AND OUR DESIRE FOR MORE AFFORDABLE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT AGAINST PROJECTS THAT POTENTIALLY HAVE NO IMPACT. IF THEY'RE PUSHED OUT OR LITTLE IMPACT, THERE'S ALWAYS SOME IMPACT. GO AHEAD. YEAH. THANK YOU MAYOR, VICE MAYOR. I WOULD WANT TO TEMPER THAT COMMENT WITH THAT. THIS IS RIGHT, THIS IS A GROWTH BASED MODEL. THIS IS DEVELOPMENT THAT'S COMING. THESE ARE THEN ADDITIONAL PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA BE LIVING HERE USING THE SAME AMOUNT OF RESOURCES. IT IS A DECLINE IN THE LEVEL OF SERVICE. YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT I THINK THAT'S SORT OF TECHNICALLY HOW THIS THING IS CALCULATED. AND SO IT'S, THAT'S DEFINED AS SUCH. YOU'VE GOT MORE PEOPLE USING THE SAME RESOURCES. IT'S A DECLINE IN THE LEVEL OF SERVICE. I THINK IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE SERVICE PROVIDED. IF IT'S ROADS, STREETS THAT NEED TO BE REPAVED OR SEALED, WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T USE DIFF FOR THAT. WELL, THAT'S TRUE. THAT'S TRUE. AND WE'VE PUSHED MORE STREET IMPROVEMENTS ONTO DEVELOPERS. WELL, IF THEY DO A WHOLE DEVELOPMENT. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. THEY'RE PUSHING THAT COST ONTO THE DEVELOPMENT. DO THEY PUT THE ROADS IN OR DO WE AND INTERNAL TO THE DEVELOPMENT, THEY WOULD INTEGRATE. MM-HMM. . RIGHT. SO, SO KATHY, QUESTION TO THAT POINT. WE'VE JUST EXPANDED IN THE AREA OF LIKE PARKS OF RECREATION, A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS. WERE WE TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION, UH, THE FUTURE GROWTH WE ANTICIPATED WHEN WE MADE THOSE DECISIONS? SO THAT THAT'S ALREADY FACTORED IN? OR WAS THAT TO MEET THE NEED THAT ALREADY EXISTS, THEREFORE IF WE DO ENCOURAGE MORE BUILDING, WE DO NEED MORE. LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, THE EIGHT NEW PICKLEBALL COURTS, UM, THE NEW PATHWAY THAT WAS PUT IN THE NEW, YOU KNOW, BREWER, UM, RANGER PARK ON BREWER ROAD, YOU KNOW, WERE THOSE TO MEET THE DEMAND AT THAT POINT? OR WERE THEY DESIGNED TO DE TO MEET FUTURE DEMAND? I MEAN, THAT HAS TO FACTOR INTO THIS CONVERSATION. I THINK, UH, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE RANGER STATION PARK IMPROVEMENTS WERE PAID FOR PRIMARILY, MAYBE NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT, BUT PRIMARILY WITH EXISTING DIFF FUNDS THE CITY HAD ALREADY COLLECTED. SO YES, THAT WAS A D ELIGIBLE PROJECT ABOUT WAS DONE, MELISSA. SO WE'VE BEEN SITTING HERE TALKING ABOUT THE STREETS AND YOU KNOW, YOU BROUGHT UP PARKS, UM, AND THEN THERE'S ALSO POLICE. I, I THINK THE SEMICOLON IS MEANT TO SAY YOU COULD DO FOR YOUR PROJECTS, BUT YOU COULD ALSO HAVE DECLINING SERVICE. NOT THAT FEWER PROJECTS IS EQUAL TO DECLINING SERVICE. AND SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE DON'T HAVE THE FUNDING THAT WE NEED IN ORDER TO BUY, UH, UPDATED EQUIPMENT FOR THE POLICE OR WHATEVER ELSE MIGHT BE ALLOWED UNDER DIFF FUNDING, THEN, YOU KNOW, I HIRE SOMEONE TO MAKE SURE OUR STREETS ARE, OR OUR NEW STREETS ARE SAFER, OR OUR MULTI-FAMILY, YOU KNOW, LOCATIONS ARE SAFER, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE A VEHICLE TO RIDE IN. RIGHT? I MEAN, SO I, I THINK THAT THAT THERE'S, THERE'S TWO SEPARATE THINGS ABOUT [02:45:01] FEWER PROJECT JETS. WE MAY MAKE THAT DECISION COME BUDGET THAT WE WANT TO DO FEWER PROJECTS, BUT THEN WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE DECLINING SERVICE IN ANY OF THOSE AREAS THAT WE USE THE DIFF. AND SO I, I THINK FOR ME, I'M LOOKING THIS AT THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT WE MIGHT NEED FOR FUTURE GROWTH, FUTURE PROTECTION, FUTURE, YOU KNOW, HEALTH AND WELFARE OF OUR COMMUNITY BY PROVIDING THEM WITH PARK FACILITIES. AND I SAY IF I DON'T HAVE THAT MONEY, THEN I AM GONNA BE DECLINING IN THE SERVICE THAT I AM PROVIDING FOR THE RESIDENTS OF MY COMMUNITY. AND I WOULD ARGUE ON THE OTHER HAND, IF IT COSTS SO MUCH MONEY, NOBODY'S COMING HERE. IT'S NOT, NO DEVELOPMENT'S GONNA OCCUR. I MEAN, WE'RE, YOU KNOW, SURE. THAT'S, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER SIDE. WE'RE PUSHING PEOPLE OUT OF OUR COMMUNITY. DEREK, UM, A COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR KURT. HOW MUCH FLEXIBILITY DOES THE CITY HAVE TO PAY THE FEES ON BEHALF OF DESIRABLE, WHAT I'LL CALL DESIRABLE PROJECTS? YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY COMES ALONG AND WANTS TO BUILD A, YOU KNOW, 150 ROOM RESORT, THEY'RE GONNA PAY THE FEES. SOMEBODY COMES ALONG AND SAYS, WE'RE GONNA BUILD WORKFORCE HOUSING AND WE'RE WILLING TO DEED RESTRICT IT FOR, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, SHORT TERM RENTALS AND WE'RE WILLING TO SET, YOU KNOW, RENT CAPS. I MEAN, I MEAN, HOW MUCH CAN WE DIFFERENTIATE IN THOSE KINDS OF PROJECTS? SO, SO THERE'S A LOT OF FLEXIBILITY THERE. UH, THE CITY CANNOT WAIVE THE DIFF, IT'LL HAVE TO BE PAID. IT HAS TO BE PAID ON THEIR, ON THE BEHALF OF THE PROJECT. UM, IT WOULD BE ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. YOU'D WANNA JUDGE IT SUBJECT TO ARIZONA GIFT CLAUSE CONCERNS WHERE YOU DON'T WANT TO JUST BE, UH, PAYING THEM FOR CORPORATIONS THAT AREN'T PROVIDING ANY DIRECT, UH, PUBLIC BENEFIT. BUT IF THEY WERE DE RESTRICTING, FOR EXAMPLE, FOR IT'S, IT'S A POSSIBILITY WOULD BE POSSIBILITY THAT SOMETHING THE CITY HAS DONE BEFORE. BECAUSE I MEAN, IT SEEMS TO ME THERE'S A WAY TO GET THE FEES WITHOUT CHASING OFF THE DEVELOPMENT. WE WANT TO HAVE, I MEAN, WE DON'T NEED, WE DON'T NEED A GOLF COURSE. WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER GIANT HOTEL. WE DO NEED MORE WORKFORCE HOUSING. SO, I MEAN, WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE GIFT CLAUSE, WE CAN MAKE IT CLEAR TO THE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO COME IN AND BUILD WORKFORCE HOUSING THAT THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE THAT THE DEVELOPMENT FEES WILL BE PAID ON THEIR BEHALF IF WE CAN, IF WE GET SOME, YOU KNOW, IF WE GET SOMETHING IN RETURN BESIDES JUST THE BENEFIT OF WORKFORCE HOUSING. SO IT SEEMS TO ME THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS MONEY'S GOTTA COME FROM SOMEWHERE. AND, YOU KNOW, I WOULD A LOT RATHER SEE THE MONEY COMING FROM THE GUY WHO COMES IN AND WANTS TO BUILD THE NEW, YOU KNOW, GOLF RESORT THAN EXISTING RESIDENTS, UM, WHO ARE GONNA PAY EITHER IN FORMS OF OTHER TAXES OR REDUCED SERVICES OR WHATEVER. UM, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME WE CAN BALANCE THAT WITH THE CITY PAYING ON BEHALF OF CERTAIN, CERTAIN TYPES OF DEVELOPMENT. SO I, I KIND OF FEEL LIKE, I MEAN, RAISE THE FEES TO WHAT WE CAN GET, WHAT'S REASONABLE AND THEN, YOU KNOW, ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS, WE'LL JUDGE WHETHER THE CITY SHOULD BE PAYING. I'M JUST WORRIED PERSONALLY THAT YES, WE NEED WORKFORCE HOUSING, BUT WE ALSO NEED HOUSING THAT PEOPLE ARE GONNA LIVE HERE AND WE MIGHT BE PLACING THOSE PEOPLE OUT AS WELL. SO, I MEAN, NOT EVERYBODY CAN AFFORD TO SPEND THE KIND OF FEES THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR FOR A REGULAR RETIREMENT HOME THAT SOMEONE'S GONNA LIVE IN. KATHY, THANK YOU. THIS IS A GOOD, YOU KNOW, EXCHANGE IN BRAINSTORMING. 'CAUSE THIS TAKES A LOT OF THOUGHT, BUT, UH, TO YOUR COMMENTS, UH, I GUESS WHAT MY CONCERN IS, IS IS THAT IT WHAT'S DISCOURAGING TO SOMEBODY TO EVEN COMING THROUGH WITH A PROPOSAL? THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED AS COMMUNITY BENEFIT, SOME OPEN SPACE THAT A SOMEBODY COULD WALK THROUGH TO GET TO ANOTHER SPACE. IS THAT A COMMUNITY BENEFIT? IT'S BEING PRESENTED THAT WAY? UM, IS THE FACT THAT A, IN ANY DEVELOPMENT, IF THERE WAS A COFFEE SHOP INVOLVED, JUST USING EXAMPLES, IT MAY OR MAY NOT FIT, YOU KNOW, AND IT'S OPEN TO THE PUBLIC THERE THAT'S BEING TOUTED AS A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT, UH, COMMUNITY BENEFIT. SO I'M JUST CONCERNED THOUGH THAT YES, YOU COULD RAISE FEES ALL THE WAY AND THEN SAY, WE'LL, YOU KNOW, PAY THEM FOR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT, BUT, UH, COMMUNITY BENEFIT. BUT THERE'S SO MUCH THAT'S BEING PRESENTED. AND IN ORDER FOR SOMEBODY GET TO THE POINT OF COMING TO US WITH THE ACTUAL PROPOSAL, COSTS THEM MONEY UP FRONT AS WELL. AND WHEN THEY SEE THE DEVELOPMENT FEE STRUCTURE, THE IMPACT FEE STRUCTURE, IS THAT A DISCOURAGEMENT FROM COMING FORWARD IN THE FIRST PLACE TO EVEN GET TO THE POINT OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS? I MEAN, IT'S JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT WE COULD PUT, WE COULD PUT OUT THERE THAT [02:50:01] IF THAT BE FINE. YEAH. WE COULD PUT OUT THERE THAT IF, YOU KNOW, IF YOU, DEPENDING ON WHAT KIND OF PROJECT YOU'RE MOVING, YOU'RE BRINGING FORWARD, IF YOU'RE BRINGING FORWARD A, UH, YOU KNOW, RENTAL PROJECT AND YOU'RE GOING TO RESTRICT AGAINST SHORT-TERM RENTALS FOR 30 YEARS, WE'LL THE CITY WILL PAY HALF YOUR FEE. JUST PUT IT OUT. I MEAN, AND HAVE THAT OUT IN THE INFORMATION. IF YOU'RE GOING TO, UH, HAVE RENT RESTRICTED PROPERTIES FOR HOWEVER LONG, THEN WE WOULD AGREE TO PAY SOME OF THE FEES. WELL, WE ALREADY DO THAT. YOU KNOW, WE ALREADY DO THAT. RIGHT. BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS YOU MAKE THAT PART OF THE, THE, I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHERE PEOPLE GO TO FIND THESE FEES TO SEE WHAT THEY ARE, BUT IF SOMEBODY WERE TO COME ALONG AND SAY, OKAY, I WANT TO DEVELOP IN SEDONA, WOW, THOSE FEES ARE REALLY HIGH, BUT, OH LOOK, HERE'S A FOOTNOTE THAT SAYS I, THAT I WHAT, BASED ON WHAT I WANT TO DO, IT WOULD QUALIFY FOR A YEAH, THAT'S SORT OF IN THE PRELIMINARY DISCUSSIONS WITH THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT OFFICE, I THINK. RIGHT? CORRECT. AND, AND MAYOR AND COUNCIL, WHERE THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE WOULD BE TO UPDATE THE DIGA, WHICH IS ALREADY WAITING TO BE UPDATED. MM-HMM. UM, AND IT TALKS ABOUT IN THEIR DEFERRING DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEES, WHICH WAS SOMETHING WE CURRENTLY DO. AND AT TIMES THROUGH DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, WE'VE WAIVED ALSO, WE COULD COME UP WITH AN ACTUAL POLICY AND PUT IT IN THE, IN THE DEVELOPMENT AND SEND THEM GUIDELINES FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING THAT DOCUMENT. YEAH, I GET IT. I MEAN, I DON'T WANNA CHASE PEOPLE OFF, BUT BY THE SAME TOKEN, I WANT TO WELL, THAT'S THE POINT. YEAH. OKAY. UH, ARE WE GOOD WITH, THAT WAS EXCITING. ARE WE GOOD WITH QUESTIONS? OKAY. LET'S OPEN UP, UH, WE HAVE ANY, UH, CARDS FOR PUBLIC COMMENT? NO, MAYOR. OKAY. PUBLIC HEARING. UH, OKAY. THEN WE'LL OPEN AND CLOSE THAT PORTION AND GO TO COMMENTS AND THEN, UH, DECIDE ON THE MOTION. WE KNOW THERE'S NO MOTION. I SAW SOME. NO. THEN I, THERE'S A LOT IN HERE TODAY. I STILL WRONG PAGE, BUT, OKAY. SO THERE'S, JUST FOR INFORMATION RIGHT NOW, UM, WELL, STAFF IS HOPING TO GET SOME DIRECTION ON WHAT KIND OF, UM, FEE STRUCTURE YOU'D LIKE US TO BRING BACK. OR IF YOU'D LIKE US TO SCHEDULE ANOTHER MEETING FOR YOU TO DISCUSS IT, UM, IN YOUR AGENDA. BILL, I DID OUTLINE, UM, THE TIMELINES OF THE ADOPTION PROCEDURES PER THE STATUTE. AND THOSE ARE THE MINIMUM TIME PERIOD. SO WE HAVE TO HOLD ONE PUBLIC HEARING ON THE FEES, WHICH YOU JUST DID. UM, AND THEN IF YOU ARE OKAY WITH THEM, WE WOULD SCHEDULE IT FOR ADOPTION ON JANUARY 14TH, WHICH IS THE EARLIEST YOU COULD ADOPT THEM. AND THEN THE EARLIEST EFFECTIVE DATE WOULD BE MARCH 31ST. IF YOU WANT TO, UM, INSTEAD DISCUSS THIS AGAIN ON JANUARY 14TH, WE CAN DO THAT. YOU CAN TAKE YOUR TIME. I BELIEVE, BEN, PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT I THINK YOU CAN TAKE YOUR TIME TO DECIDE ON HOW YOU WANNA IMPLEMENT IT. UM, WE MAY RUN INTO SOME TIMING ISSUES OF THE EXISTING FEE AND THE, UM, IMPLEMENTATION OF THE NEXT FEE, BUT YOU DO HAVE SOME TIME TO, UM, DECIDE WHAT YOU WANT TO DO. BUT STAFF WAS HOPING TONIGHT TO GET A FILL FROM YOU ON WHAT YOU WERE LEANING TOWARDS OR WHAT YOU WERE INTERESTED IN. IF WE COULD NARROW IT DOWN AND HELP US PROVIDE YOU, UM, UM, YOU KNOW, A MORE FORMALIZED DOCUMENT OF WHAT THE NEW FEE IMPLEMENTATION COULD LOOK LIKE. SO I THINK I HEARD THE CURRENT ORDINANCE. I THINK YOU'RE OKAY WITH THE WAY THE LANGUAGE IS STRUCTURED AROUND WHAT WE WOULD COLLECT ON, UM, ADUS, EXTE, YOU KNOW, EXPANSIONS. I DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT THAT, BUT, UM, SO WE'RE JUST LOOKING FOR DIRECTION TONIGHT ON WHAT YOU WANNA SEE NEXT. SO PRIME MAY I, MAY I INTERJECT ON, ON THE TIMING BECAUSE YOU ADVERTISE THE DEVELOPMENT FEE REPORT ON OCTOBER 9TH. UM, YOU NEED TO ADOPT THE DEVELOPMENT FEES WITHIN 60 DAYS OF THAT TIME. SO THAT'S ABOUT DECEMBER 8TH. UH, WELL, WE HAD THE SCHEDULE AS JANUARY 14TH. I THOUGHT THAT WAS ALL OKAYED BY YOU ALREADY. OH, SORRY. YOU, SORRY. YOU NEED TO HAVE THE NEXT PUBLIC HEARING. OH, OKAY. THANK YOU. DECEMBER 8TH. SO WE WOULD NOT HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO HAVE ANOTHER AND ADOPT BY JANUARY 14TH TO SATISFY THE, THE TIMELINE. SO WE CAN DISCUSS IT IN DECEMBER OR WE CAN'T. SO IF, IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT, WE NEED TO DO IT QUICKLY SO WE DON'T LET THE TIME LAPSE. UH, SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE COULD HAVE DIRECTION, SO WE TONIGHT, THAT WAY WE COULD AT LEAST COME BACK WITH MAYBE ONE OR TWO OPTIONS AND SAY, HEY, LOOK, [02:55:01] BASED ON THE DISCUSSION LAST TIME, HERE'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. MAYBE IF YOU ADOPTED A PERCENTAGE OF THE FEE, AND HERE'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IF YOU MAYBE PROVIDED THE TRANSPORTATION CREDIT. SO IF WE BROUGHT IT BACK TO THEM ON NOVEMBER 26TH, WHICH WE'RE ALREADY REVIEWING THE PACKET FOR THIS WEEK, BUT BECAUSE THEIR NEXT MEETING IS DECEMBER 10TH, CORRECT? CORRECT. CORRECT. SO NOVEMBER 26TH SOUNDS LIKE THE ONLY TIME THEY COULD DO THE SECOND DISCUSSION. YOU KNOW WHAT ANNETTE, I'M SORRY I WAS COUNTING FROM MUCH OVERNIGHT. IT'S FROM NOVEMBER 12TH. TODAY'S DATE IS YOUR PUBLIC HEARING. SORRY GUYS. IT'S, UH, IT'S ALMOST 10 O'CLOCK HERE AND, UH, MY ENTIRE FAMILY WAS SICK YESTERDAY, , UH, AND I CAN HEAR A, A, A BABY CRYING UPSTAIRS. SO, UH, SORRY, IT'S NOVEMBER 12TH. UH, TODAY WE HAVE 60 DAYS UNTIL THEN TO ADOPT. THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY. FROM TODAY, IF WE HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING IN DECEMBER, WE ESSENTIALLY HAVE TO HAVE DIRECTION AT THAT POINT ON WHICH ONE YOU WANT BECAUSE YOU DO NEED TO ADOPT THE FEES WITHIN 60 DAYS OF TODAY'S DATE. OR WE HAVE TO START THIS PORTION OF THE, THE PUBLIC HEARINGS OVER TO ESSENTIALLY DO THE DEVELOPMENT FEES AGAIN. UM, IF WE DON'T ADOPT BY 60 DAYS FROM TODAY'S DATE. OKAY. WHICH THINK I GOT IT JANUARY 14TH. IT IS ESSENTIALLY THERE, I THINK WE, WE WENT OUT FURTHER KNOWING, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT THE, THE PUBLIC HEARING SCHEDULE MAY BE AFFECTED, UH, IN, YOU KNOW, LATE DECEMBER, JANUARY. UM, AND SO I THINK, UH, JANUARY 14TH IS, UM, REALLY PUSHING UP AGAINST, UH, THAT DEADLINE. OKAY. OKAY. I THINK I'VE GOT IT. SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE A MEETING IN, IN DECEMBER AND THEN JANUARY, CORRECT. IF THAT'S, BUT WE DO NEED SOME DIRECTION ON WHAT TO BRING BACK IN DECEMBER, OTHERWISE IT'LL JUST BE THE SAME INFORMATION YOU HAVE TONIGHT. I, I UNDERSTAND. SO WHY DON'T WE START WITH BRIAN. I KNOW. WELL WE GOT THE NEW GUY ON THE OTHER SIDE, SO YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT, YEAH, THANKS FOR THAT, MAYOR. UM, BARBARA AND BEN, FIRST OFF, THANK YOU FOR THE ADDITIONAL WORK. UH, THANK YOU FOR LOOKING AT THE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES. IT HAS BEEN ILLUMINATING FOR SURE. I KNOW I'VE LEARNED A GOOD BIT THROUGH THIS PROCESS AND I DON'T WANT TO BE IN A HURRY BECAUSE I DO WANNA MAKE SURE WE GET THIS RIGHT, UH, BECAUSE IT IS A 10 YEAR DECISION AND, UH, YOU KNOW, THINKING ABOUT THE TIMELINE THAT WE'VE JUST BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE LAST FEW MINUTES, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'D SORT OF BE NICE IF WE GOT THROUGH THE, UM, BUDGET PRIORITY MEETINGS IN EARLY DECEMBER. 'CAUSE I SORT OF KIND OF FEEL LIKE WE'VE GOT SOME DESIRE HERE TO TIGHTEN THE BELT A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW WE DO SOME OF OUR SPENDING AND WHATNOT. AND WE'RE MAKING THIS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE BEING PUSHED. WE DON'T HAVE TO, BUT WE'RE BEING PUSHED TO TRY TO MAKE THAT DECISION BEFORE WE GET TO THAT TWO DAY RETREAT. SO THERE'S A PART OF ME THAT DEFINITELY WANTS TO TAKE ALL THE TIME WE HAVE AVAILABLE SO THAT WE CAN MAKE THE BEST INFORMED DECISION. SO HAVING SAID THAT, UM, A QUESTION TO KURT, LIKE, SO WE DON'T HAVE A DIFF CATEGORY FOR MULTIFAMILY. IT'S JUST COMING OUTTA SINGLE FAMILY, RIGHT? I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN SEEING ON ALL THIS, RIGHT? COULD WE NOT HAVE A MULTIFAMILY DIFF CATEGORY THAT WE COULD HAVE SUBSTANTIALLY LOWER FEE STRUCTURE ASSOCIATED WITH TO BEGIN WITH? I'M NOT SURE. UM, WE MIGHT CHECK WITH BEN, BUT I THINK WE, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ANY PROHIBITION ON IT. AND THEN ON THE SAME THOUGHT, COULD WE DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT WITH ANY FUTURE HOTELS? SO I THINK HOTELS ARE ALREADY GETTING IT IN, IN THIS MODEL, THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, RIGHT? BUT I THINK THERE'S A SENSITIVITY THAT WE DON'T WANT TO DISCOURAGE MULTIFAMILY IN PARTICULAR, RIGHT? THAT'S OUR HIGHEST AND BEST OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS WORKFORCE HOUSING AND JUST HOUSING IN GENERAL. AND THE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS DIFF STRUCTURE, IT FRANKLY FEELS MORE PUNITIVE AT THE LOW END. I THINK COUNCILOR PETE DOWN THERE HAS POINTED THAT OUT PREVIOUSLY [03:00:01] THAT IT FEELS LIKE WE, UH, ARE DISCOURAGING MULTIFAMILY. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, CAN WE, IS IT TOO LATE AT THIS JUNCTURE TO GET A CATEGORY OF DIFF FEE, UH, UH, SET UP AND, AND, AND COSTED OUT THAT WE CAN HAVE, UH, A MUCH MORE FRIENDLY FEE, UM, THAT KEEPS US FROM HAVING TO TAKE AS MANY ADDITIONAL, YOU KNOW, OPTION ACTIONS HERE? BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT I'M REALLY ALL THAT CONCERNED ABOUT THESE HIGHER DIFF FEES FOR A NUMBER OF THE OTHER CATEGORIES, RIGHT? LIKE, I DON'T THINK WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT IT'S GONNA COST PER HOTEL ROOM RIGHT NOW. RIGHT? AND I'M NOT SURE HOW EVEN CARE THAT MUCH ABOUT SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL COMPARED TO MULTIFAMILY. SO TO THE EXTENT WE COULD GET A CATEGORY FOR MULTIFAMILY THAT SHOWS THERE'S AN INCENTIVE TO BUILD HERE, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING I WOULD LOVE TO SEE IF THAT'S POSSIBLE. UM, AS FAR AS WHAT WE CAN DO. OTHERWISE, I PROBABLY WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT OPTION ONE, I'M NOT THRILLED ABOUT OPTION TWO BECAUSE THAT FEELS LIKE WE'RE MAKING FUTURE UNINFORMED DECISIONS OR WE'RE FORCING FUTURE DECISIONS TOWARDS TAKING DEBT, UM, THAT MAYBE WE DON'T WANT TO. SO I'M NOT THRILLED ABOUT, UM, OPTION TWO IN THAT REGARD. UM, I MAY HAVE OTHER THOUGHTS AFTER I LISTEN TO THE REST OF YOU BRILLIANT FOLKS HERE. SO I'M GONNA STOP AND TAKE A PAUSE THERE. THANK YOU. UH, MELISSA, MAY I SPEAK TO THE MULTIFAMILY QUESTION? UM, SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE USING THE FEES BY SIZE OF UNIT, WHICH DOESN'T DIFFERENTIATE BY TYPE, JUST BY SIZE AND, UH, AS A WAY TO MAKE UNITS MORE AFFORDABLE. UM, IF YOU WERE TO DECIDE YOU WANTED A A, A SEPARATE MULTIFAMILY FEE, UM, WE WOULD NEED TO GO BACK AND AMEND THE LAND USE ASSUMPTIONS. UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, THINKING THIS QUESTION MAY COME UP, UM, IN MY MODEL, I DO HAVE WHAT THAT FEE WOULD BE, UH, SO BASED ON THE SAME COST PER PERSON FOR EACH CATEGORY. UH, AND THEN INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, USING THAT SIZE THRESHOLD, UM, I COULD USE THE SAME CENSUS DATA THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, THE AVERAGE MULTIFAMILY UNIT IN SEDONA HAS 1.84 PERSONS PER HOUSEHOLD. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, USING THE ONLY DIFFERENT FACTOR IS THAT IT'S MULTIFAMILY SPECIFIC. UH, IT'S STILL THE SAME, YOU KNOW, COST PER PERSON. UH, THE MULTIFAMILY FEE WOULD BE ABOUT $13,000, UM, WHICH IS SLIGHTLY MORE THAN THE 1200 TO 1700 SQUARE FOOT UNIT. UH, SO BY USING A UNIT TYPE, IT WOULD ACTUALLY INCREASE THE FEES ON THOSE, THOSE SMALLER UNITS, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO AVOID, UM, BEN WITH. BUT THERE IS THE OPTION WHERE, UM, WE DON'T CHANGE THE METHODOLOGY, BUT OUTSIDE OF THE METHODOLOGY, THE COUNCIL COULD HAVE A POLICY OF HOW, UM, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S A MULTI-FAMILY PROPERTY, KIND OF BACK TO COUNSELOR FS EXAMPLE, UM, THE FEE IS GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, 50% OF WHATEVER, OR 75% AND THEN THE CITY PICKS UP THE DIFFERENCE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO KEEP THE FUND WHOLE BASED ON ALL OF THESE ASSUMPTIONS. IS THAT THAT THAT'S CORRECT. YOU CAN CHOOSE AS A CITY TO PAY A PORTION OF AN IMPACT FEE, UH, TO MAKE THAT DEVELOPMENT, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, A BETTER, YOU KNOW, SELL TO A, A DEVELOPER. YES. OKAY. CAN I ASK FOR CLARIFICATION ON THAT? SURE. OKAY. WE, WE, JUST TO USE AN EXAMPLE, WE HAD A, YOU KNOW, A CASE OF SOMEBODY WHO WAS BUILDING A LARGE HOUSE OVER IN THE CHAPEL DISTRICT AT ONE POINT. NOT YOU, NO, NOT YOU, NOT YOU. I KNOW WHERE SHE'S GOING. SHE'S RIGHT, SHE'S RIGHT, RIGHT. IT WAS A LARGE HOUSE QUALIFIED AS A SINGLE FAMILY, YOU KNOW, RESIDENCE, 6,000 SQUARE FOOT, 6,000 SQUARE FEET, RIGHT? SO TO BE USED AS A INTENDED TO BE USED AS A SHORT TERM RENTAL. UM, BUT THE SIZE OF THAT, IF SOMEBODY'S BUILDING SOMETHING REALLY LARGE, THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE, I'M GOING BACK TO COUNSELOR, UH, FO'S POINT. WE'RE TRYING TO INCENTIVIZE MULTIFAMILY. BUT IF YOU USE ONLY A SIZE GUIDANCE, [03:05:01] THEN SOMEBODY WHO BUILDS AN ENORMOUS SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE IS GETTING THE SAME ADVANTAGE. OR YOU COULD LOOK AT IT AS THE MULTIFAMILY IS GETTING THE DISADVANTAGE. THIS, THIS, THE, I DIDN'T HEAR AND CORRECT ME PLEASE, BEN, I DIDN'T HEAR THAT CONCERN ADDRESSED IN YOUR RESPONSE. MM-HMM, . WELL, SO IF WE, WE GO WITH, YOU KNOW, JUST BY UNIT TYPE, THEN THE REALLY LARGE UNITS ARE RECEIVING A SUBSIDY FROM THE, THE SMALLER UNITS. THAT'S, THAT'S WHY WE WERE, YOU KNOW, SHOWING THE, THE SIZE THRESHOLDS WHERE YOU HAVE MORE VARIATION IN THE OCCUPANCY. SO REALLY THOSE SMALL UNITS WHICH HAVE FEWER PEOPLE PAID PROPORTIONATELY LESS THAN THE, THE LARGER UNITS. I'M LOST. YEAH. I, I I I, I'M SORRY. THAT'S PERHAPS IT'S, UM, CAN YOU CLARIFY? SO IN THOSE SIZE CATEGORIES, A SINGLE FAMILY HOME OF 2,700 SQUARE FEET IS CONSIDERED ONE UNIT, RIGHT? BUT IF IT'S A, UM, MULTIFAMILY WITH APARTMENTS, IT'S THE SIZE OF EACH OF THOSE APARTMENTS. SO IF IT'S 700 SQUARE FEET, UM, UNIT IS ONE OF THE APARTMENTS, THEY PAY THAT MUCH. IF IT'S, UM, YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? MEASURE? I DO. THAT'S NOT HOW I HEARD THE ANSWER. I HEARD THE ANSWER. SO, UH, THAT IT'S THE CUMULATIVE SQUARE FEET. AND THAT'S, THAT'S MY QUESTION. THESE ARE ASSESSED PER UNIT. IT'S BY SIZE OF UNIT. EACH UNIT IS ASSESSED A FEE. OKAY. CAN, CAN MULTIFAMILY GET AN EXEMPTION FROM THE UNIT COUNT OR SOMETHING SO THAT IT CAN BE TREATED AS ONE UNIT? WELL, BUT THEN THEY, THE TOTAL SQUARE FOOT OF THE APARTMENT COMPLEX WILL BE IN THE HIGHEST CATEGORY. YEAH. BUT SPREAD ACROSS MORE UNITS, RIGHT? THERE'S A PEN POTENTIAL DEPENDS. IT, IT WOULD HAVE TO PENCIL OUT. IT'S NOT, WE CAN'T FORECAST IF IT WOULD DEFINITELY FALL ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE PARTICULARS OF THAT PROJECT. AND WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS INCENTIVIZE SOMETHING SO THAT IT DOESN'T DEPEND ON THE PARTICULARS. 'CAUSE WE WANT THE PARTICULARS TO COME FORWARD AND NOT INCENTIVIZING THAT DISCOURAGE IS THAT, SO CAN I JUST GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE HERE? HERE WE HAVE A 50 UNIT PROJECT. MM-HMM. AND THE, THERE'S 47,500 SQUARE FEET NOW. AND THEN WE HAVE A COMPARISON OF A 50 UNIT PROJECT WITH 97,500 FEET. AND WE TEND TO BE ON THE SMALLER SIDE, RIGHT? MM-HMM, , OKAY. SO THAT 47,500 SQUARE FOOT PROJECT PAYS ALMOST HALF A MILLION DOLLARS IN DIFF FEES AND IT'S 1.9% OF THE COST OF THE PROJECT. MM-HMM. . BUT IF IT'S LARGER, 97,500, THEY'RE PAYING MORE MONEY. 735,000. BUT THE PERCENTAGE IS LESS. IT'S ONE AND HALF PERCENT. SO WE'RE DISINCENTIVIZING THE SMALLER RIGHT UNITS. AND SO, AND THAT'S THE ONES WE, WE ARE MORE LIKELY TO GET BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH SPACE EXCEPT WHEN WE DO SOME OTHER, RIGHT. SO SHELBY, AS AN EXAMPLE, OR SEE WITH YOUR ANALYSIS, OKAY. YEAH. CAN I ADD ON TO THAT? MM-HMM. . SO LIKE IF YOU LOOK AT PACKET PAGE 1 92 UNDER, UH, PROPOSED FEES OPTION ONE, RIGHT? THE, THE LARGEST SQUARE FOOTAGE CATEGORY IS 4,701 SQUARE FEET. SO CALL IT THAT. AND THEN, UM, SAY YOU'RE BUILDING 750 SQUARE FOOT UNITS, OKAY? SO THAT GETS YOU SIX AND A PARTIAL UNITS, OKAY? SO SIX AND A PARTIAL AT WOULD AT OR 750 SQUARE FEET WOULD COST 7,000 A POP. SO YOU'D BE OVER FOUR THOU $42,000 IN DIFF FEES ON A PER UNIT BASIS. WHEREAS THE SUPER MAC DADDY HOUSE ONLY PAYS 18,000, RIGHT? YEAH. THAT AGREE. WE GOTTA, THAT'S A PROBLEM. , WE, WE, WE GOTTA FI I I WANNA FIX THAT WITHOUT US JUST HAVING TO STROKE A CHECK LATER. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. AGREE, RIGHT? RIGHT. AGREE. SAME TOPIC. YEAH. OKAY. BUT THERE'S MORE PEOPLE AND THERE IS MORE DEMAND ON THE SYSTEM FOR THEM. LISTEN, I'M, WITH ALL OF US WANTING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO ENCOURAGE NOT ONLY MULTIFAMILY BUT MIXED USE STUFF AND NOT ONLY DIG A STUFF, BUT COMMERCIAL STUFF, RIGHT? MARKET RATE, UH, AVAILABLE MULTIFAMILY [03:10:01] AND MIXED USE PROJECTS. BUT THIS MATH IS SUPER COMPLEX AND WHEN WE MAKE THAT ANALYSIS THAT YOU JUST DID, YOU LEAVE OUT THE FACT THAT THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE IN A MULTIFAMILY UNIT, UM, THAT PUT MORE DEMAND ON THE SYSTEM. AND SO THAT'S WHY THE FEES ARE HIGHER. I THINK IN THE END, THIS MATH GETS COMPLICATED ENOUGH AND I'VE CERTAINLY LEARNED A LOT AND I DO APPRECIATE THE WORK THAT, UH, THAT BEN AND, AND YOU HAVE DONE, UH, ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS THAT WE'VE ASKED OVER ALL THESE MULTIPLE HEARINGS. UM, MY MIND IS, IS IS NOW LEANING TOWARDS MORE OF WHAT COUNCIL MEMBER FFI PROPOSED EARLIER THAT IT, IT IS STROKING A CHECK ON PROJECTS THAT WE WANT. I MEAN, THAT, THAT'S WHERE I'M GOING IS THAT THIS MATH IS COMPLICATED. OUR, THERE'S LOTS OF PROJECTS HERE THAT WE ALL WANTED AND COUNCIL MEMBERS IN THE PAST HAVE VOTED FOR AND WE'RE HEADED THAT WAY WITH A 10 YEAR CIP. AND YEAH, IT MAY NOT ALL COME TRUE, BUT THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT THIS AND OTHER COUNCILS HAVE EXPRESSED DESIRE TO DO. AND I THINK THAT IF WE WANT TO, RATHER THAN MESS WITH THE MATH HERE, IT'S REALLY A MATTER OF RESERVING MONEY IN OUR BUDGET AND INCENTIVIZING AND PAYING THE DIFF FEES FOR PROJECTS THAT WE WANT TO PAY IN THE FUTURE. AND THAT'S JUST KIND OF THE SIMPLEST WAY TO GET WHERE WE WANNA GO WITHOUT HAVING TO REJIGGER ALL THIS MULTIVARIATE MATH. AND I JUST, BUT I THINK WE RUN INTO A GIFT CLAUSE PROBLEM, A BIG GIFT CLAUSE PROBLEM IF WE WANNA INCENTIVIZE SMALL SINGLE RESIDENCES. 'CAUSE WE WANT MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING AT 500,000 AND LESS, WHAT IS THE PUBLIC BENEFIT THAT IS GONNA GET US PASSED A GIFT CLAUSE? I, I APPRECIATE THAT VICE MAYOR AND I DO, I I I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA WORK OUR WAY OUT OF OUR HOUSING PROBLEM IN SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. WE JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH LOTS LEFT AVAILABLE IN THIS TOWN TO GET THERE. IT'S REALLY ABOUT MULTIFAMILY AND MIXED USE PROJECTS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HERE IN THE LATEST COMMUNITY PLAN WHERE THAT'S KIND OF THE FOCUS AREA AND THAT'S WHERE THE ANSWER IS GONNA COME. AND WE NEED TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY AS COUNCIL MEMBER FT SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY THAT THAT'S WHERE WE'VE GOT SOME SKIN IN THE GAME HERE AND WE'RE TRYING TO DO IT. AND I DON'T KNOW, KURT, HOW FLEXIBLE WE CAN GET WHEN THE CITY MAY PAY ALL OR A PORTION OF THE DIFF WITH THE PUBLIC BENEFIT AND WHAT PUBLIC BENEFIT MEANS. BUT YOU KNOW, THE DIVERSITY OF HOUSING TYPE AS A PUBLIC, UH, BENEFIT THAT WE'RE SHORT ON TOO. UH, I THINK IT'S, THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO PUSH OUR BOLDNESS IN THE LAW AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THIS LINE ON PUBLIC BENEFIT IS. THANK YOU MAYOR. SO I HAVE NO IDEA TO WHOM I'M DIRECTING THIS QUESTION , BUT IT'S A QUESTION WHICH IS HOW DO DUPLEXES AND QUADS FACTOR IN HERE? BECAUSE YES, WE HAVE A LAND AVAILABILITY ISSUE. UM, WE WANT, WE HAVE SMALLER LOTS. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO ACCOMMODATE A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, EVEN, EVEN MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENTS AT AT 50 UNITS IS, IS HARD TO ACCOMMODATE ON THE LOT SIZES WE HAVE. WE HAD BEEN TALKING ABOUT DUPLEXES, QUADS, I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE ARE IN THAT CONVERSATION, BUT WHERE WOULD THEY FACTOR IN? BECAUSE AGAIN, WOULD THEY BE HURT BY THIS FORMULA OR INCENTIVIZED BY THIS FORMULA? THAT'S THE QUESTION TO WHOEVER I SAW YOU ALL JUMPED UP TO ANSWER THAT . I, UH, I MIGHT, I MIGHT BE ABLE TO ADD SOME TO THAT . UM, A DUPLEX AND A QUAD ARE, ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. UH, A DUPLEX IS IDENTIFIED AS A, AN ATTACHED SINGLE FAMILY HOMES QUADS ARE MULTIFAMILY. SO THAT MIGHT ADD SOME, THAT CERTAINLY HELPS US KNOW WHERE THEY FACTOR IN. SO THEN WILL THE QUAD, 'CAUSE NOW I THINK THAT WE ARE CLEAR ON THE DUPLEX, BUT THE, WOULD THE QUAD BE HURT IN THIS FORMULA? POTENTIALLY? WOULD IT BE CALCULATED AS FOUR UNITS? SO IF THE UNIT SIZES OF EACH OF THEM IS 700, IT'D BE FOUR 700 UNIT PAYMENTS. THAT'S THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING. YES. GO AHEAD. THANK YOU STEVE. SO WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ADUS IN ALL OF THIS, IT'S LIKE, OH, AN A DU IS JUST MORE SQUARE FOOTAGE [03:15:01] AND GETS TREATED FAVORABLY. SO WHY ARE WE NOT DOING THE SAME THING WITH ES TRIPLEXES, QUADS AND MULTIFAMILY? WHY IS IT NOT JUST AN EXTENSION OF SQUARE FOOTAGE? 'CAUSE THEN THAT'S BENEFICIAL FOR THE MULTI-UNIT INSTEAD OF TREATING THEM EACH AS INDIVIDUAL UNITS FOR THE DIFF WHY CAN WE NOT DO THAT? I THINK WE NEED A WEEK LONG RETREAT ON THIS . OH YEAH. WE HAVE SO MUCH TIME TO DO THAT, MELISSA, YOU HAVEN'T WEIGHED IN. HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE THAT I UNDERSTAND THAT TOO. BUT IT'S GETTING LATE TOO. UM, SO I THINK THIS IS A REALLY COMPLEX ISSUE FOR THE CITY OF SEDONA AND I THINK THAT COUNCILOR FURMAN IS CORRECT. WHEN YOU HAVE MULTIFAMILY, YOU HAVE MORE PEOPLE, MORE PEOPLE WILL USE MORE PARKS, THEY MIGHT NEED MORE PARKS, THEY'RE GOING TO NEED MORE POLICE. SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THE POLICE HAVE WHAT THEY NEED. UM, THERE'S GOING TO BE MORE THINGS AROUND THE STREETS, SO WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO DO THE THINGS AROUND THE STREETS. LIKE COUNSELOR FOOT SAID. I DON'T WANNA JUST SAY, OKAY, LET IT ALL GO AND WE'LL JUST ACQUIRE MORE DEBT, RIGHT? SO WE'LL DO THAT. THAT DOESN'T FEEL RIGHT TO ME EITHER. AND I THINK, I THINK WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE WILL HAVE DEVELOPERS WHO WILL COME HERE AND THEY'RE MORE THAN HAPPY TO BUILD MULTIFAMILY UNITS AND PAY HIGH MARKET RATE. AND THAT'S NOT GONNA HELP YOU NECESSARILY KEEP THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING HERE, EVEN IF THEY WORK FOR THE CITY AND ARE EARNING A BETTER RATE THAN SOMEONE IS EARNING $18 AN HOUR OVER AT WHOLE FOODS. SO I, I THINK THIS IS A VERY COMPLEX PROBLEM THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, AND I REALLY THINK IT COMES DOWN TO WHAT POLICIES DO WE WANT TO SET AROUND MULTIFAMILY. SO THIS GOES BACK TO, TO COUNCILLOR FA AND WHAT HE HAD TO SAY. IT GOES BACK TO THE DIGGER, WHICH NEEDS TO BE UPDATED AND IT NEEDS FOR US TO SIT DOWN AND HAVE A HARD THINK AROUND WHAT THE POLICY IS GOING TO BE AROUND SUPPORTING MULTIFAMILY REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT COMES IN THE SHAPE OF DUPLEXES, TOWN HOMES, QUADS APART, TRADITIONAL APARTMENT BUILDINGS. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT ENCOURAGING THAT WHERE IT BECOMES AFFORDABLE AND WE'RE NOT CREATING SECOND HOMES POTENTIALLY FOR MORE PEOPLE WHO JUST WANNA COME TO SEDONA WHEN THE WEATHER IS COOL. SO I, I JUST THINK WE NEED, THIS IS COMPLEX HERE. WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF LAND AND IT'S NOT A SIMPLE PROBLEM FOR US TO SOLVE. I DO AGREE. WE'RE NOT GONNA SOLVE IT WITH MORE SMALL SINGLE UNIT HOUSES. THERE'S JUST NOT ENOUGH LAND. SO, UM, I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION AROUND WHAT WE WANT THE POLICIES TO BE AROUND THE CITY ABSORBING THE DIFF SO THAT THAT'S WHERE I STAND. SO I'M SORT OF SOMEWHERE AROUND THE ES AND THE FAF ES FAFS. SO I JUST WANNA JUMP IN HERE WE'RE, IT'S GETTING LATE. WE HAVE QUITE A FEW MORE ITEMS ON THE AGENDA TO DO. ANNETTE IS ASKING FOR AN ANSWER TO SOME GUIDANCE. I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT MY ANSWER WILL BE, SO I DON'T KNOW HOW WE COULD MOVE FORWARD, BUT WE CERTAINLY HAVE TO. UM, ANY SUGGESTIONS SHORT AND SWEET AND JUST GIVE ANNETTE WHAT SHE'S LOOKING FOR THAT OR SOMETHING, SOMEHOW BRING IT BACK ON THE 26TH. LET US HAVE A CHANCE TO THINK. WELL, AND ANNETTE SAID, UNLESS WE GIVE HER MORE GUIDANCE, IT'S JUST GONNA BE THE SAME PACKAGE OVER AGAIN. UNLESS HAVE YOU, I THINK WHAT I'VE HEARD IS AN INTEREST IN SOME KIND OF POLICY AROUND MULTIFAMILY, SO WE CAN TRY TO DRAFT SOME PROPOSALS, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU CAN, UM, PICK AT, AT THE NEXT MEETING AND SEE IF HE CAN NARROW IT DOWN. UM, BUT THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT I'VE HEARD KIND OF THE OVERALL INTEREST IN IS AROUND MULTI-FAMILY. UM, AND THEN THE ISSUE OF SORT OF EQUITY, WHICH, YOU KNOW, GOING BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS, YOU KNOW, BEN TRIED TO BUILD THAT IN BY NOT HAVING ONE FLAT RATE FOR ALL RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, BUT BY TIERING IT, UM, YOU KNOW, HAVING A GRADUATED SCALE. UM, SO I FEEL LIKE WE TRIED TO ADDRESS THAT PIECE ALREADY. UM, BUT THAT'S WHAT I HAVE HEARD SOME INTEREST IN. A COUPLE OF YOU EXPRESSED INTEREST, I THINK IN THE OPTION ONE HE PROPOSED THAT WAS LIKE, UH, APPLYING A CREDIT IN THE TRANSPORTATION SIDE, UM, . BUT I THINK GENERALLY WHAT I HEARD IS MORE INTEREST IN A BROADER, UM, OFFSET RELATED TO MULTIFAMILY THAT DOESN'T JUST PICK ON ONE CATEGORY, POLICE PARKS OR STREET. IT WOULD BE IF THERE WAS SOME OFFSET, IT WOULD BE ALL OF IT. MM-HMM. [03:20:01] AND PAID FOR BY THE CITY. SO I, I JUST HAVE TO SAY THAT I THINK THAT MAYBE WE'RE NOT GONNA SOLVE OUR PROBLEM WITH SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCES, BUT ACCORDING TO THIS A THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT HOME IS DOUBLE THE PERCENTAGE THAN A 4,000 SQUARE FOOT HOME. AND I DON'T THINK THAT THAT IS RIGHT. I DON'T THINK, I THINK WE'RE DISINCENTIVIZING SMALLER HOMES AND THEY SHOULD AT LEAST BE ON, HAVE PARITY BETWEEN THEM. SO, SO ONE IS 1.9% AND THE OTHER IS 1.1%. SO IT'S ALMOST DOUBLE AND I THINK IT NEEDS TO COME DOWN. SO I WOULD PUT MORE, I WOULD RAISE THE RATE ON THE LARGER HOMES AND LOWER THE RATE ON THE SMALLER HOMES. SO THIS QUESTION IS REALLY AIMED AT YOU. OKAY. SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THESE SMALLER HOMES THAT ARE BEING BUILT, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS FOR ME IS ABOUT POLICY HERE IS I DON'T WANT THOSE HOMES GETTING SOME KIND OF A, A DISADVANTAGE OR EQUITY IS WHAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE THINKING OF IT AS. AND WHAT THEY'RE REALLY TRYING TO BUILD IS ANOTHER SHORT TERM RENTAL AS A SMALL HOME THAT IS NOT A LONG TERM RENTAL AND NOT A PRIVATE RESIDENCE. SO THIS IS WHY I THINK IT'S SO COMPLICATED AND WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS TAKE THE TIME TO THINK THROUGH WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF HOUSING AND WHAT ARE OUR POLICIES GOING TO BE AROUND THOSE HOUSING, AND WHAT ARE THE QUALIFICATIONS WE WANT AROUND THOSE HOUSING? AND THAT'S REALLY KINDA WHAT THE DIGGER IS. WHAT'S THE PUBLIC BENEFIT? WELL, THE DIGGER HAS TO BE REVISED, BUT I THINK IT'S GONNA BE HARD TO SAY WHAT A PUBLIC, AGAIN, BECAUSE OF THE GIFT CLAUSE, AND IT HAS TO BE SPECIFIC ON SINGLE FAMILY IS GONNA BE MUCH HARDER. YOU, YOU WON'T GET PEOPLE RETIRING HERE ANYMORE UNLESS THEY'RE GONNA BE IN A, IN A CONDO OR TOWNHOUSE. AND THAT'S NOT, I'M NOT LOOKING TO RESTRICT PEOPLE WHO WANNA ACTUALLY TRULY LIVE HERE TO RETIRE LIKE WE ALL HAVE. AND YOU CAN'T, YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO THAT ANYMORE UNLESS YOU'RE BUYING A PRE-ESTABLISHED HOME. I'M NOT DISAGREEING WITH THAT. I'M SAYING IT'S COMPLICATED AND WE REALLY NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW WOULD WE DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN AN INDIVIDUAL WHO WANTS TO DO THAT, AN INDIVIDUAL WHO WANTS TO BUILD A 1400 SQUARE FOOT HOME TO BE USED AS A, AS A SHORT TERM RENTAL. SO, AND THAT'S JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE A SHORT TERM RENTAL ISSUE IN OUR COMMUNITY. RIGHT. SO I'M NOT DISAGREEING OKAY. SO TRYING TO DRIVE THIS TOWARDS CONCLUSION TONIGHT. SO I THINK ANNETTE HEARD, RIGHT? I THINK THAT FIRST PRIORITY IS AS POLICY IDEAS AROUND INCENTING MULTIFAMILY. I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE VICE MAYOR HAS EXPRESSED STRONGLY A INTEREST IN SEEING THAT SMALLER SINGLE FAMILY DOESN'T GET QUITE AS DISADVANTAGED. OKAY, I GET THAT. I GET THAT. BUT IF WE DON'T FIGURE OUT THESE THINGS FROM A POLICY PERSPECTIVE AND WORK THEM INTO THIS FEE STRUCTURE, THEN ALL WE ARE DOING AS AN ALTERNATIVE IS JUST DECIDING HOW WE'RE GONNA STROKE CHECKS VIA THE DIGA OR OTHERWISE. AND I, I, I'D LIKE TO SEE IF WE CAN DO SOMETHING BEYOND JUST STROKING CHECKS IN THE DIGA. SO LET'S CHALLENGE OUR, OUR CITY ATTORNEY TO HELP US WITH THE GIFT TAX. WELL, WE, WE, BETWEEN BARBARA AND ANNETTE AND KURT, I'M SURE THEY COME UP WITH SOMETHING BY TOMORROW. NO, NO PROBLEM. . ANNETTE, DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE ENOUGH YET? I DO. UM, OKAY, GOOD. WE'LL GET A . I THINK. SO MOVING ON, WE WILL, UM, GET AN AGENDA BILL INTO THE PACKET, BUT THE EXACT EXAMPLES MAY NOT COME WHEN YOUR PACKET'S RELEASED. WE MIGHT HAVE TO FOLLOW UP WITH THAT FOR THE 26TH. WE'LL ALLOW, WE CAN LET THAT GO. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR ACCOMMODATING US COUNSEL. THANK YOU, BEN. THANK YOU. BYE. TOMORROW ROOM. I KNOW. OKAY, [8.c. AB 3107 Discussion/possible action regarding approval of a Resolution authorizing the execution of an Intergovernmental Agreement (IGA) between the City of Sedona and the Arizona Department of Transportation (ADOT) regarding the construction of Shelby Drive Shared Use Path Phase II (SIM11Q).] ITEM C, AB 31 0 7. DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING APPROVAL OF A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE EXECUTION OF AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT BY GA BETWEEN THE CITY OF SEDONA AND ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, A REGARDING THE CONSTRUCTION OF SHELBY SHARED USE PATH SIM 11 Q BATHROOM. GOOD EVENING. GOOD EVENING. SANDY PHILLIPS PUBLIC WORKS. UM, I'LL DO THIS QUICKLY, BUT, UM, ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS WITH PROBABLY ANDY AND KURT'S HELP. YEAH, IT'S JUST A LITTLE SHORT FOR ONE. THAT'S IT. JUST A LITTLE SHORTCUT. YEAH, MAINLY SOME GREAT PICTURES IS WHAT I DID FOR OUR SLIDES. SO THIS PROJECT IS, UM, UH, SHELBY ROAD. THIS IS THE NORTH SOUTH PORTION OF SHELBY ROAD, AND WE GOT SOME PHOTOS OF THIS ALIGNMENT. [03:25:01] UM, THERE ARE SIDEWALKS CURRENTLY ON THIS ROAD, BUT THEY DON'T MEET OUR SHARED USE PATH WITH, AND I THOUGHT THIS WAS A GREAT PHOTO THAT SHOWS THAT EVEN THOUGH WE'VE GOT SOME SIDEWALKS, THE NARROW SIDEWALKS, THE KIDS AND THEIR PARENTS ARE STILL RIDING DOWN THE STREET. SO THE BACKGROUND ON THIS PROJECT IS WE, UM, GOT CONGRESSIONAL DIRECTED SPENDING OF 500,000 ON THIS. AND SO WHAT WE'RE REQUESTING IS, UH, COUNSEL TO, UH, GIVE US THE APPROVAL TO MOVE AHEAD WITH THAT. UH, WHAT WE ANTICIPATE, WE'VE ALREADY STARTED ON THE FEASIBILITY OF THIS PROJECT. UM, WE SEE THAT THIS IS GONNA BE A GREAT CONNECTOR FOR THE COMMUNITY FOR SUNSET PARK AND A CONTINUATION OF THE EAST WEST PORTION OF SHELBY. I'VE GOT A PHOTO UP THERE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE. UM, THAT PATHWAY HAS BEEN USED A GREAT DEAL. WE'RE FINDING, UM, I'M GONNA GIVE ANDY AND MY PREDECESSORS, WHEN I FIRST STARTED THREE AND A HALF YEARS AGO, WE GOT A LOT OF PUSHBACK ON THESE SHARED USE PATHS, BUT WE GET NOTHING BUT COMPLIMENTS NOW ON THESE. SO THIS HAS BEEN A GREAT THING THAT THE COUNCIL HAS BEEN DOING. SO WE WANNA CONTINUE AND COMPLETE THESE LOOPS. UM, SO THE ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE SHOWS YOU THE AREA THAT, UM, WILL BENEFIT AS WELL AS DOING THE CONNECTOR FROM THAT EAST WEST SHELBY UP TO 89 A. SO THIS SHOWS THAT THE PATH IS PART OF OUR GO PLAN. SO WE CONTINUE TO FOLLOW THAT OVERALL PLAN AND LOOK AT IT AS FAST AS WE CAN. AND, UM, THE PROJECT WILL INCLUDE SOME SIGNAGE AND, UM, CONNECTIVITY, IMPROVE THE SAFETY. THAT IS THE BIG GOAL OF THIS SHARED USE PATH IS TO PROVIDE SAFETY FOR RIDERS LIKE ME THAT DON'T GO 35 MILES AN HOUR ON SOME OF THESE ROADS. I LIKE TO TOOTLE ALONG. AND THERE'S, THAT'S THE MAJORITY OF THE BICYCLE RIDERS AND WE WANNA MAKE IT SAFE. DO YOU WANNA ADD ANYTHING TO THAT? NOPE. ALL RIGHT. SO REAL QUICK, UM, IF WE RECEIVE APPROVAL FOR, TO MOVE AHEAD WITH THIS, IGA, UM, WE WILL GIVE, UM, MOVE THE ENGINEERING DESIGN AHEAD. AND WE, WE ARE ON A TIMELINE ON THIS, SO WE NEED TO HAVE THE FUNDS, UH, APPROPRIATED AND IN PLACE BY SEPTEMBER OF NEXT YEAR. AND, AND RIGHT NOW WE'RE ON THAT TIMEFRAME. UH, WE NEED TO DO A NEPA AND, UM, WE CURRENTLY HAVE THE FUNDS TO DO THIS PROJECT SCHEDULED WITHIN THE BUDGET. SO, UM, ANYTHING FURTHER? ANDY, YOU WANTED TO ADD NOTHING FROM ME. THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS? SANDY, WHEN YOU SAY WE NEED TO DO A NEPA, IS THE CITY, CITY HAS TO DO IT? YEAH, THE CITY'S GONNA PAY FOR THAT, BUT IT'S WITHIN THE CITY RIGHT AWAY. AND WE'RE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO DO, IT'S CALLED A CATEGORICAL EXCLUSION TO HELP MOVE EVERYTHING. COPY. THANK YOU. SO, OKAY. 1.4 MILLION. UH, WE BUDGETED, THE STATE IS GIVING 500,000, SO THAT MEANS WE PAY THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, OR IT'S THE 1.4 PLUS THE 500. SO IT'S 500 AND THEN A, UH, 1 MILLION FROM US. SO A LITTLE OVER A MILLION FROM US. OKAY. SO IS WHAT WE'RE ANTICIPATING RIGHT NOW. WE'RE PAYING IT'S A TWO TO ONE. OKAY. YES. THANK YOU. ONE TO TWO. ONE TO TWO. OKAY. TWO TO ONE. ONE TO TWO. WHOSE SIDE DO YOU WANT? . GREAT. PETE, DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? UH, JUST COMMENT. OKAY. UH, WELL, ANYTHING ELSE? OKAY, WE'RE GONNA OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. ANY CARDS, JOANNE? OKAY. WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. GO TO COMMENTS. PETE. THANK YOU, MAYOR. I, I'M SUBPAR OF THIS PROJECT AND I, IT'S GONNA BE A GREAT PROJECT. WHAT I HAVE EXPRESSED CONCERN ABOUT IN THE PAST IS, IS JUST OUR PRIORITIZATION OF OUR SUVS. AND, AND I GET THAT THIS ONE IS LINKED THROUGH THE FEDERAL DOLLARS TO THE SEWER WORK THAT WE DID, THE FLOOD CONTROL WORK OR WHATEVER IT WAS ON SHELBY. AND SO THAT'S GOOD. UH, AND I JUST, I THINK ABOUT THE, WELL, IT'S ACTUALLY WE'RE SANDY, YOU HAD SAID ABOUT, WE'RE ON A TIMELINE ON THIS. I WISH WE COULD DO SORT OF SELF-IMPOSED TIMELINES ON ANTE AND MOUNTAIN SHADOWS AND RODEO AND, YOU KNOW, ALL THE REST OF THE CONNECTOR PROJECTS THAT WE WOULD LOVE TO DO IN, IN THE FUTURE. AND, YOU KNOW, IN THE PAST, THIS COUNCIL PUT SOME PRIORITIZATION ON GETTING BREWER PARK, UH, MOTIVATED AND MOVED. AND I, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US DO THE SAME THING WITH SUVS AND, AND REALLY IDENTIFY, [03:30:01] AND FOR ME, ANDANTE IS RIGHT AT THE TOP OF THE LIST. NOW, I DIDN'T PULL THE ITEM THIS MORNING, BUT I WILL NOW QUOTE FROM THE PACKET ON 3G, WHICH WAS THE ANTE SHARED USE PATH ITEM THAT, YOU KNOW, CONSTRUCTION IS ANTICIPATED TO START SUMMER OF 2025, AND WE EXPECT IT TO TAKE SIX TO EIGHT MONTHS AND COMPLETION BY WINTER OF 25, 26. THAT'S GOOD NEWS. YOU KNOW, I, I REALLY WANTED TO TOUT THAT BEFORE IN THE CONSENT AGENDA THAT IT IS OUT THERE AND IT IS MOVING. UH, I JUST WISH THAT WE COULD TAKE SOME STEPS HERE TO PRIORITIZE SOME OF THIS STUFF. THESE PROJECTS ARE SUPER IMPORTANT FOR THE DIRECTION THAT WE WANNA BE TAKING THE COMMUNITY IN TERMS OF, UH, INTERCONNECTIVITY AND GETTING PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR CARS AND WALKING AND BIKING. AND SO THAT'S JUST THE COMMENT THAT I WANTED TO MAKE. AND I, I, I MIGHT BE, UH, BEATING THAT HORSE ONCE AGAIN IN OUR PRIORITIZATION PRO , UH, UH, SESSION COMING UP IN DECEMBER THAT PERHAPS THERE IS SOMETHING WE CAN DO TO MOTIVATE THESE SUP PROJECTS, ESPECIALLY IN THE UNDERSERVED AREAS OF OUR COMMUNITY THAT DESPERATELY NEEDS SOME SAFETY IMPROVEMENTS. SO, THANK YOU MAYOR. QUICK COMMENT, MAYOR. YES, YOU MAY. I JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT, UM, WE JUST STARTED ON COFFEE POT AND I SAW PEOPLE WALKING DOWN THE ROADWAY TODAY AND JUST WANTED TO LET COUNCIL KNOW THAT WE HAVE STARTED ON THAT. UM, AND I NEED TO DO MORE OUTREACH 'CAUSE, UM, AND LET THE PUBLIC KNOW AS WELL. SO, WE'LL, WE'RE WORKING ON THAT. WHAT'S THE FEEDBACK SO FAR, WHAT YOU'VE GOT? UM, WE REALLY HAVEN'T GOTTEN MUCH FEEDBACK, I DON'T THINK YOU SAID OKAY. OTHER THAN PEOPLE ARE EXCITED TO SEE IT. BUT WE'VE GOT OUR ENGINEERING TEAM OUT THERE ALREADY DOING SOME, UH, FEASIBILITY AND STAKING AND, AND PROPERTY CORNERS. SO WE'RE STARTING. I SAW, OKAY. UH, YES, MELISSA, SO WE'RE NOT GOING IN ANY PARTICULAR WORD. UM, NO, THAT'S FINE. COMMENTS? UM, LIKE COUN COUNSELOR FIRM OR, I AM A HUGE SUPPORTER, AS YOU KNOW, OF THES. I THINK THAT IT IS, IT GOES BEYOND GETTING PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR CARS, AND WE ALSO WANNA GET KIDS OFF THE ROAD ON THEIR BIKES. UM, I HAVE SEEN THEM COMING UP ONTO THE THUNDER MOUNTAIN, UM, AND THEY ARE ON THE ROAD, AND THEN THEY GET ONTO THE, THE SUP THAT IS THUNDER MOUNTAIN. AND IT'S A HUGE SAFETY THING FOR OUR COMMUNITY. AND WE HAVE LARGE AREAS WHERE EVEN WHERE WE HAVE LITTLE SIDEWALKS, THE SIDEWALKS REALLY ARE NOT WIDE ENOUGH TO THE POINT THAT YOU WERE MAKING ABOUT SHELBY. AND RIGHT NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING THE VILLAS THAT SHELBY IN WHERE WE'RE HOPING WE WILL HAVE SOME CHILDREN IN THOSE APARTMENTS. AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA HAVE MORE PEOPLE RIDING UP AND DOWN THAT, THAT STREET. UM, WHETHER THEY GO TO SUNRISE PARK OR NOT, THEY WILL BE RIDING UP AND DOWN THAT STREET. SO I, I'M, I'M OBVIOUSLY A FAN AND I'M IN FAVOR AND, UM, GO FORTH AND KEEP MULTIPLYING THE SUVS. BRIAN, READY FOR MOTION? SO I OKAY. HAVE A MOTION. ANYBODY? PETE, YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE MOTION ON THIS ONE. I'LL DO IT, PLEASE. I MOVE TO APPROVE RESOLUTION NUMBER 2024 DASH 31 31 AUTHORIZING THIS, THE EXECUTION OF AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF SEDONA AND THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION CONTRIBUTING AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $500,000 IN FUNDS TO BE USED FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE SHELBY DRIVE BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT PHASE TWO. I'LL SECOND IT. OKAY. OKAY. WE HAVE A SECOND. ANY ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. HE OPPOSED? NONE. OKAY. YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANKS FOR HANGING IN THERE, . YOU CAN STAY LONGER IF YOU WANT TO, SANDY, IT'S PERFECTLY FINE. OKAY. WITH SKIPPING D GO TO E [8.e. AB 3129 Presentation/discussion/possible direction regarding a tourism update including results of summer marketing campaign, branding concepts, and winter marketing campaign concepts and strategy. ] AB 31 29 PRESENTATION. DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE DIRECTION, UH, REGARDING THE TOURISM, UH, UPDATE, INCLUDING RESULTS OF SUMMER MARKETING CAMPAIGN, BRANDING CONCEPTS, AND WINTER MARKETING CAMPAIGN. CONCEPTS AND STRATEGY. COME FIVE MINUTES WHILE FIVE MINUTES FIVE. YOU CAN HAVE FIVE, FIVE MINUTE BREAK. UH, WE'LL KEEP THE THANK YOU, JOANNE. WE'RE GONNA KEEP THE MICS ON. WE'LL TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK. IS THAT OKAY? YES, MAYOR. OKAY. THANK YOU. JUST BE AWARE THE MICS ARE ON. THE MICS ARE ON. OKAY. WE'RE BACK ON. LAUREN, YOU GONNA KICK IT OFF? YES. OKAY. GOOD EVENING, MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, CITY COUNSELORS. UM, [03:35:01] TODAY WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THREE MAIN TOPICS, WHICH MATTER? WHERE ARE THE OTHER TWO COUNSELORS? SHOULD WE WAIT? LOST. WENT HOME THERE. OKAY. I'LL JUST GO. UM, FIRST IS THE RESULTS OF THE SUMMER MARKETING CAMPAIGN. UH, SECOND IS THE NEW DRAFT LOGO AND TAGLINE FOR THE TOURISM PROGRAM. AND THEN LAST, THE WINTER DESTINATION MARKETING CAMPAIGN ADVERTISING STRATEGY. UH, AS A SIDE NOTE, IN THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM, UH, WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT THE CONTRACT WITH DVA TO HELP EXECUTE THE MARKETING SERVICES, INCLUDING THE WINTER DESTINATION MARKETING CAMPAIGN THAT WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT. GET THESE OUT HERE. OKAY. SO, UH, WE CAN TAKE QUESTIONS AS WE GO. OKAY. BUT I ALSO WILL STOP AFTER EACH OF THE THREE TOPIC ITEMS TO HAVE A FOCUS DISCUSSION AND GET DIRECTION. UM, TONIGHT WE'RE LOOKING FOR DIRECTION ON WHETHER OR NOT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE LOGO AND TO TAGLINE, THUS COMPLETING THE BRANDING EFFORT WITH DVA AND THE WINTER DESTINATION MARKETING CAMPAIGN, WHICH IF APPROVED, WOULD LAUNCH IN THE COMING WEEKS. UM, PARTNER AND DIGITAL DIRECTOR CHRISTIAN FOLK WITH DVA IS HERE TONIGHT WITH ANDREW AND I, UM, HE'S HERE TO HELP SHINE SOME LIGHT ON THE DATA AND STRATEGY BEHIND THE SUMMER AND WINTER CAMPAIGNS. OKAY. SO TO START OFF, THERE WE GO. UM, TO START OFF, UH, WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THE SUMMER MARKETING CAMPAIGN RESULTS. LIKE I MENTIONED, UH, THIS WAS A CAMPAIGN THAT, AS YOU REMEMBER, UM, WAS CALLED BE IN THE MOMENT. IT RAN FROM JUNE 1ST TO AUGUST 31ST. AND IT INCLUDED THREE MAIN THINGS THAT WAS PAID GOOGLE SEARCH. IT WAS IN MARKET, INCLUDING PHOENIX STEWARDSHIP, THEMED META ADS, AND OUT OF MARKET ATTRIBUTION BASED ADS ONLINE. AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS THAT WE SHOW PEOPLE ADS WHERE THEY LIVE, AND THEN IT WILL TRACK IF THEY END UP IN OUR MARKET. AND FOR HOW LONG? IT IS NOT AN EXTRAPOLATION. IT IS A ONE-TO-ONE TRACKING OF HOW MANY DEVICES ENDED UP IN MARKET. WHO SAW OUR ADS? SO OUR OUT OUR OUT OF MARKET ADS WENT TO PHOENIX, LA TUCSON, SAN FRANCISCO, LAS VEGAS, SAN DIEGO, NEW YORK, CHICAGO, SEATTLE, AND DENVER. THE IN-MARKET STEWARDSHIP, UH, MESSAGING, META ADVERTISING WENT TO SEDONA, UH, WHICH HAD A 25 MILE RADIUS, AND IT ALSO WENT TO PHOENIX. SO THE AD ON THE RIGHT HERE, YEAH, UM, WAS OUR HIGHEST PERFORMER, WHICH WAS INTERESTING. UM, THAT WAS FOR OUT OF MARKET. AND THEN YOU'LL REMEMBER THAT THIS CAMPAIGN WAS A MIX OF BOTH EDUCATIONAL STEWARDSHIP, MARKETING AND ALSO, UM, UH, SORRY, THE STEWARDSHIP MESSAGING WAS FOR VISITORS ON SOCIAL MEDIA WHO ENDED UP IN MARKET. UH, THIS STILL FEATURED BEAUTIFUL PHOTOS, AS YOU CAN SEE, BUT IT ALSO CAME WITH THE BE DIRECTIVE. UM, THAT'S, UM, IN THIS EXAMPLE, BE OBSERVANT, BE AWARE, UM, BE CONSIDERATE, BE IN THE MOMENT. THEN FOR OUT OF MARKET MESSAGES, IT WAS MORE ASPIRATIONAL. UH, WE DROPPED THE B AND IT WAS MORE OF THE COME HERE TYPE OF MARKETING. UM, SO THAT USED WORDS LIKE GENUINE, INTENTIONAL, THOUGHTFUL, EMBRACE THE MOMENT RATHER THAN BE, SO THE KEY TAKEAWAYS WERE THAT, UM, IT WAS A BIG DRIVER FOR SCENIC SEDONA. THE ATTRIBUTION BASED ADS WERE, UM, OUT OF, JUST FROM THE ATTRIBUTION BASED ADS. WE HAD 12,000 USERS TO OUR WEBSITE. UM, META BROUGHT IN 24,000 USERS TO THE WEBSITE. UM, THE AVERAGE INDUSTRY, BEN BENCHMARKS FOR THE TOURISM INDUSTRY SPECIFICALLY, UH, WERE ALL MET IN THE MARKETING KPIS THAT INCLUDES A CLICK THROUGH RATE ABOVE 1.9% OVER THE BENCHMARK. UH, META CLICK THROUGH RATE WAS 68% OVER THE BENCHMARK. UM, AND THE WEB AD CLICK THROUGH RATE WAS 16%. OVER THE BENCHMARK ATTRIBUTION KPIS ARE THAT THERE WAS AN 89 TO ONE RETURN ON AD SPEND OR ROAS CALCULATED WITH AN A DR OF 261 AND $190 A DAY IN VISITOR SPEND. THAT $190 A DAY WAS, UM, A NUMBER DERIVED FROM THE VISITOR INTERCEPT SURVEY, UM, THAT WE HAD FOLKS TAKE BACK IN DECEMBER OF LAST YEAR. WHO DID THAT SURVEY? UM, DBA. YEAH. UM, IT, THEY HIRED A CONTRACTOR. I DON'T REMEMBER WHO IT WAS. AND HOW MANY PEOPLE DID THEY HAVE OUT THERE? JUST CURIOUS. I'M NOT LOOKING TO MAKE A BIG DEAL, I JUST WANNA KNOW. [03:40:01] I DON'T REMEMBER. I'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THE RESULTS, BUT MAYBE WHILE, UM, JUST ONE OF THEM IS TALKING. I CAN LOOK THAT UP. LET LET ME KNOW. OKAY. JUST CURIOUS IF THE NAU WHEN IT WAS DONE BY THE CHAMBER. SO, UM, RIGHT, THIS WAS NOT DONE BY NAU, THIS WAS DONE BY NO, YEAH, THIS WAS DONE BY RRC ASSOCIATES. I I UNDERSTAND THAT COLORADO YEP. IN COMPARISON. YEP. LAUREN, THAT ONE 90 A DAY IS EXCLUDES HOTEL, RIGHT? CORRECT. IT ASKS THE QUESTION, SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF, UM, HI EL, UH, SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF, UH, OUTSIDE OF HOTEL, WHAT DO YOU SPEND ON FOOD ACTIVITIES, SHOPPING, DINING, THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. YEP. THANK YOU. PER DAY. OKAY. WHERE WAS I? UM, ADDITIONALLY, UH, WE DID NOT SEE THIS IN THE WINTER CAMPAIGN, BUT I'M HAPPY TO REPORT THAT IN THE SUMMER CAMPAIGN, THE ESTIMATED SALES AND FED TAX RECEIVED BY THE CITY FROM THE CAMPAIGN, FROM THE ATTRIBUTION BASED ADS, UM, WAS OVER $340,000 OR A RETURN ON TAX INVESTMENT SPEND OF 4.5 TO ONE. OKAY. I'M GONNA HAND IT OFF TO CHRISTIAN FOR A MINUTE, AND HE'S GONNA TALK ABOUT ROI IN EACH MARKET. HELLO. AND, UH, THANK YOU FOR HAVING US THIS EVENING. UM, SO ONE OF THE EXERCISES WE DID AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE CAMPAIGN WAS, UH, TRY TO LOOK AT WHAT KIND OF RETURN DID WE GET FROM EACH MARKET. UM, SO YOU CAN KIND OF SEE HERE WHAT THE SPEND WAS TO EACH MARKET. YOU CAN SEE THE ATTRIBUTED VISITS AND THEN SUBSEQUENT HOTEL, UH, VISITS. THOSE ARE ROOM NIGHTS. UM, USING, UH, THE, THE NUMBERS THAT LAUREN JUST MENTIONED, UM, WE GET, UH, A AN OVERALL VALUE AND THEN THAT RETURN BY MARKET, UM, THAT REMOVES ANY ADVERTISING SPEND, UM, FROM THE VALUE, UH, WHICH IS HOW WE GET TO THE ROI OF, UM, A DOLLAR VALUE TO ONE. UM, THE SUMMER CAMPAIGN, UM, SAW A POSITIVE, UH, RETURN ON INVESTMENT FROM ALL MARKETS, UM, WHICH WE WERE HAPPY TO SEE. UM, CHICAGO WAS KIND OF THE MOST CONSISTENT, UH, MARKET, UM, OVER THE COURSE OF BOTH WINTER AND SUMMER. UM, AND YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE THING THAT WE SAW HERE WAS THE INCLUSION OF PLACES LIKE PHOENIX, TUCSON, AND LA, WHICH WERE NOT INCLUDED. UM, CERTAINLY SHOW THE VALUE OF THOSE MARKETS. UM, WE ALSO, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT SPENDING DATA. UM, SO THIS IS CREDIT CARD SWIPES, UM, IN MARKET TO SORT OF TRY TO IDENTIFY WHAT MARKETS ARE, ARE, UH, WORTH OUR TIME TO GO FISHING. UM, AND PHOENIX, UH, IS, YOU KNOW, BY FAR A LEADER IN CREDIT CARD SWIPES FOLLOWED BY LOS ANGELES, UM, AND, AND SO ON. THERE ARE MANY OF THESE, YOU KNOW, CONTRIBUTE A HALF A MILLION DOLLARS OR MORE IN A THREE MONTH PERIOD IN TERMS OF SPENDING IN THE MARKET. NEXT ONE. UM, CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE ORANGE MARKETS JUST, YES. SO, UM, LOOKING AT, UH, THE LIST HERE, UM, WE'VE IDENTIFIED, UH, SOME OF THE SUMMER MARKETS TO ALSO BE INCLUDED IN, UH, THE UPCOMING WINTER CAMPAIGN. WE, UM, I THINK WE ARE ALSO SUGGESTING INCLUDING LOS ANGELES, PHOENIX, AND TUCSON, HOWEVER, NOT DALLAS IN THE WINTER CAMPAIGN. SO, UH, REMISS, UM, ON THOSE THREE MARKETS, AND THIS SLIDE IS HERE FOR COMPARISON'S SAKE. UM, THIS IS THE RETURN ON INVESTMENT FROM THE WINTER CAMPAIGN. UM, NOTABLY SEATTLE WAS A NEGATIVE RETURN, AND NEW YORK WAS, UH, ALSO ESSENTIALLY A NEGATIVE RETURN BY NOT RETURNING A DOLLAR ON A DOLLAR SPENT. UM, IT ALSO SPENT, UH, SUBSTANTIAL PART OF THE BUDGET. UM, NEW YORK CONTINUES TO BE, I THINK, THE, THE THIRD HIGHEST SPENDING MARKET, UM, IN THE CITY. SO WHILE THE RETURN ON INVESTMENT HERE, UM, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY IN THE WINTER MIGHT APPEAR THAT IT, YOU KNOW, IS, IS NOT A DESIRABLE MARKET. WE ALSO JUST WANT TO CAUTION THAT WE DO NOT PICK UP EVERY DEVICE FROM ALL OF THESE MARKETS. AND WE KNOW THAT THESE PEOPLE SPEND MONEY IN HOTELS, AND WE KNOW THAT, UH, PEOPLE FROM NEW YORK AND SEATTLE HAVE A, UH, RATHER [03:45:01] HIGH PERCENT OF OVERALL SPENDING. NEW YORK REPRESENTS ABOUT, UH, 4% OF ALL SPENDING DURING THE WINTER MONTHS OF DECEMBER AND JANUARY AND FEBRUARY, AND SEATTLE REPRESENTS, UH, 3.7 OF ALL SPENDING. AND AGAIN, THE CONTRIBUTION FROM THOSE MARKETS IS SUBSTANTIAL. SO, UM, AGAIN, ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS WE'LL BE ABLE TO DO IS, UH, DO MORE OF THIS ANALYSIS DURING THE CAMPAIGN. SO WE CAN ALWAYS PIVOT, UM, FROM LOW PERFORMING, UH, MARKETS LIKE SEATTLE OR NEW YORK IN THIS CASE, UH, TO INVEST SOME OF THOSE DOLLARS IN HIGHER PERFORMING, UH, MARKETS. CAN YOU GIMME AN IDEA OF WHY YOU THINK NEW YORK FAILED TO PRODUCE? IT'S A LOADED QUESTION. NO, I, I, I KNOW, BUT YOU KNOW, THEIR LODGING TAX IS, I BELIEVE LAST TIME I CHECKED IT WAS ALMOST, UH, 18%. IT, IT, IT'S LIKE CRAZY. THEY USED TO SPENDING A LOT IN HOTELS EITHER IN MANHATTAN OR THE, OR THE OUTER BOROUGHS. YOU THINK THEY WOULD BE COMING HERE SEEING THAT THE, OUR HOTELS ARE CHEAPER NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO. EVEN IN CHAMPION, I WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE CHEAPER THAN SOME OF THE MANHATTAN HOTELS. AND YOU, I THINK YOU HAVE BETTER SITES HERE, BUT NEW YORK HAS ITS OWN THINGS TOO, OKAY. WITH BROADWAY AND WHAT HAVE YOU. BUT TO GET THAT ROI IS, I CAN'T IMAGINE WHY. YEAH, I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, LAST YEAR WE HAD A SMALLER BUDGET, UM, THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY PART OF THE EQUATION HERE. WE SPENT MORE IN NEW YORK. UM, I THINK WE'RE ALSO GOING TO HOPEFULLY GET OUT INTO THE MARKET A LITTLE SOONER. UM, WE'RE ALSO NEW TO THE MARKET. UM, NEW YORK IS A HIGHLY COMPETITIVE MARKET. SO I THINK, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S A COMBINATION OF GETTING BACK OUT INTO THE MARKETPLACE. UM, TIMING OF CAMPAIGNS, UM, AND CREATIVE. I THINK, UM, CREATIVELY WE WILL, UM, I THINK HAVE A, A STRONGER FOOTING THAN WE DID LAST YEAR. UM, THE SITE IS MORE ROBUST NOW THAN IT WAS ALSO. SO I THINK THAT'S NOT JUST SOMETHING THAT WILL IMPACT NEW YORK, BUT I WOULD HOPE THAT WOULD IMPACT, UM, ALL MARKETS IN TERMS OF, UM, THE LIFT. OKAY. CONTINUE. I THINK THAT'S ME. UM, SO HERE IS A SNAPSHOT OF HOW WELL THE META CAMPAIGN DID. UH, THERE WERE OVER 2.7 MILLION IMPRESSIONS, 439 ENGAGEMENTS. UM, THIS IS THE ONE THAT CAUGHT MY EYE. 1.176 MILLION VIDEO VIEWS ARE BE IN THE MOMENT. UM, WHICH DID HAVE, UM, SUSTAINABILITY MESSAGING IN IT, UH, THAT HAD 6,600 REACTIONS, ALMOST A THOUSAND SHARES, AND 324 COMMENTS. AND FROM SOMEONE WHO REGULARLY READS THE FACEBOOK COMMENTS THAT WE GET ON OUR CITY POSTS, UM, THAT'S FUNNY ACTUALLY. DVA THOUGHT, UH, THEY WERE NEGATIVE, BUT IN COMPARISON, I THOUGHT THAT THEY WERE RATHER POSITIVE FROM WHAT I USUALLY READ. UM, SO CLEARLY THE, THE SUSTAINABILITY MESSAGING RESONATED WITH PEOPLE. YEAH. SO WE KIND OF TRIED TO BREAK OUT SOME OF THE ATTRIBUTION RESULTS BY MARKET AND JUST SHOW AGAIN WHERE THE SHARE, UM, OF VISITATION IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE TO THE DESTINATION OVERALL IS COMING FROM. UM, THIS, UH, IS GOING BACK TO THE SUMMER CAMPAIGN NOW WHERE PHOENIX, LOS ANGELES, AND TUCSON WERE IN THE TARGETING. SO NOT SURPRISING. WE'RE SEEING, UH, THOSE MARKETS SHOWING UP, UM, AS WELL AS LAS VEGAS AND SAN DIEGO. UM, WE'RE EXCITED TO SEE THAT PLACES CLOSER IN, LIKE PHOENIX AND TUCSON ARE NOT JUST HERE FOR A DAY. UH, WE'RE SEEING, UM, 1.6, 1.7 DAYS IN MARKET. SO WE ARE, UM, FEELING GOOD ABOUT DRIVING A HIGHER VALUE VISITOR FROM THOSE MARKETS. THIS IS A SIMILAR SLIDE, UM, LOOKING JUST AT THE, UM, HOTEL CLUSTER. SO WE HAVE, UH, I BELIEVE 33 HOTELS WITHIN THE CITY OF SEDONA POLYGON WHERE THESE DEVICES WERE PICKED UP FROM THESE MARKETS. AND AGAIN, UM, SEEING STRONG, UH, MULTI-DAY TRIPS FROM IN CLOSE MARKETS, UM, AS WELL AS, UH, FURTHER FIELD. AND YOU CAN SEE THE ESTIMATED ROOM NIGHTS, UH, OBSERVED THERE, UM, 11,631. OKAY. SO, [03:50:01] UH, THE THINGS THAT WE LEARNED WERE THAT MORE MONEY YIELDED MORE RESULTS COMPARED TO OUR, UM, WINTER CAMPAIGN. PHOENIX, TUCSON AND LA MARKETS GAVE US A MUCH HIGHER RETURN ON INVESTMENT. UM, WE'D LIKE TO STILL SEE IF WE CAN GROW THE SEATTLE, SAN FRANCISCO AND NEW YORK MARKETS, UM, BECAUSE THE TARGET PERSONA IS HIGHER PER CAPITA THERE, AND WE KNOW THAT. AND THEN WE SAW, UM, I THOUGHT THIS WAS A NICE, UH, UNDERSCORE FOR ME, CHICAGO IS THE BEST FLIGHT MARKET FOR BOTH SUMMER AND WINTER. ON THE AVERAGE QUESTION, WHAT QUESTIONS DO WE HAVE ON THAT VICE? MA'AM, I'M, I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THE LODGING COUNCIL MEETING THIS MORNING. DID THE, THE, THE HOTELIERS FEEL THE, THE IMPACT OVER THE SUMMER? DID THEY EXPRESS THAT TO YOU, ANDREW, OF THE BENEFITS OF THE CAMPAIGN? YEAH. YEAH. I MEAN, I THINK WE DEFINITELY SAW THAT THIS SUMMER WAS HARD FOR OUR HOTELIERS. UM, SO I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A LOT OF POSITIVE BENEFIT BEING FELT. I THINK THE QUESTION WE ASK OURSELVES IS WHAT WOULD'VE HAPPENED IF WE WEREN'T RUNNING A CAMPAIGN? I THINK INTERESTINGLY, IF YOU LOOK AT CITY OF SEDONA PERFORMANCE TO VILLAGE OF OAK CREEK, PERFORMANCE FROM THE HOTELS, CITY OF SEDONAS WAS PERFORMING BETTER THAN THE VILLAGE OF OAK CREEK. SO THAT'S, THAT'S AN INTERESTING PROOF POINT. UM, AGAIN, I'M NOT SAYING THAT MEANS EVERYTHING HERE, BUT, UM, I DO KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A HARD SUMMER FOR THE HOTELS, UM, SPECIFICALLY MORE RELATED TO PROFITABILITY, EVEN MORE. UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE BETTER WAY TO LOOK AT IT'S WHAT WOULD'VE HAPPENED IF WE WERE WEREN'T RUNNING THIS. AND WE'VE GOT A COMPARISON DOWN THE ROAD WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE PROFITABILITY. FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THE HOTELS ARE HAVING A PROBLEM BECAUSE OF THEIR COSTS BETWEEN, BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF HOUSING FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES, THE HIGH INSURANCE, AND ALL THE OTHER ANCILLARY COSTS THAT GOES ALONG THAT IT REALLY KNOCKS DOWN THEIR, UH, PROFIT MARGIN. SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD, YOU KNOW, KEEP IN MIND AS WELL. MM-HMM, . GREAT. ANY OTHER, OKAY. ANY OTHER, NO OTHER QUESTIONS ON THE SUMMER CAMPAIGN RESULTS? OKAY. SO THIS IS OUR, UM, BRANDING UPDATE. SCROLLING DOWN, HANG ON. SORRY. GO. UM, THIS INCLUDES THE NEW PROPOSED LOGO AND TAGLINE. UH, THE TAB WAS NEARLY UNANIMOUS IN THE RECOMMENDATIONS TO YOU ON WHAT'S BEING PRESENTED TONIGHT, BUT YOU'LL ALSO SEE THE OTHER LOGO OPTIONS IN CASE YOU WANTED TO SEE THOSE TOO, AND REVISIT THOSE. AS A REMINDER, THIS WORK IS THE CULMINATION OF LOTS OF PUBLIC OUTREACH, UM, INCLUDING PUBLIC MEETINGS, STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS, WHICH YOU ALL WERE INVOLVED IN THREE SURVEYS IN WHICH WE TRIED TO HONE IN ON VISITOR AND RESIDENT SENTIMENT, HOW PEOPLE VIEW SEDONA, UH, WHERE WE'VE BEEN AND, AND WHERE WE WANNA GO. UM, I'M GOING TO PASS IT OFF TO ANDREW TO TELL YOU ABOUT THE NEW PROPOSED TAGLINE. SO REALLY EXCITED TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE WITH YOU, UM, THE THREE THINGS THAT LAUREN MENTIONED. I'M GONNA KICK THINGS OFF WITH, WITH THE TAGLINE. UM, THIS IS WHAT I LIKE TO CALL BASICALLY OUR KIND OF CORPORATE TAGLINE. UM, IT'S KIND OF HERE TO STAY FOR THE, FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE. DOESN'T MEAN IT WILL NEVER CHANGE, BUT THE CONCEPT WITH CAMPAIGNS IS THAT WE ROTATE THOSE OUT, UM, MORE REGULARLY THAN WE ROTATE OUT TAGLINES, ESSENTIALLY. SO, UM, WHAT I REALLY LIKE ABOUT A TAGLINE IS THAT THERE'S AN IMPERATIVE, UM, JUST THE CONCEPT OF SAYING, YOU KNOW, STAY INSPIRED. WE'RE KIND OF CHALLENGING THE READER. WE'RE CHALLENGING THEM TO COME AND VISIT OVERNIGHT, FOR EXAMPLE, TO COME AND STAY WITH US. UM, BUT WHEN I REFLECT ON, YOU KNOW, WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THIS TAGLINE AND WHY I THINK IT'S A GREAT FIT FOR SEDONA, I THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, MY OWN EXPERIENCE OF LEARNING ABOUT THIS PLACE AND COMING HERE IN 2008, UM, ON A MOTHER SON TRIP. AND I NEVER FORGOT IT. IT REMAINED KIND OF IMPRINTED IN MY BRAIN. THERE WAS THIS, THERE WAS THIS LONG LASTING IMPACT THAT STAYED WITH ME. UM, I'M FORTUNATE I'VE HAD A CHANCE TO TRAVEL TO QUITE A FEW PLACES. UH, SEDONA NEVER LEFT. UM, AND SOMEHOW I FOUND MYSELF BACK HERE, JUST LIKE 80% OF OUR RESIDENTS THAT WERE VISITORS THAT KIND OF FELT SOMETHING AND THEN, AND THEN ARRIVED BACK HERE. UM, YOU KNOW, AND I LOOK AT SOME OF THE TRENDS WE SEE IN THE INTERNATIONAL TOURISM INDUSTRY THAT WERE TRANSFORMATIONAL. TRAVEL GETS THROWN AROUND A LOT THESE DAYS. ODDLY, I THINK THAT WE'VE BEEN UNIQUELY POSITIONED AS A PLACE THAT CAN COME AND SORT OF CHANGE YOU, THAT CAN KEEP YOU IN A STATE OF INSPIRATION. UM, WHEN I LOOK AT SOME OF THE OTHER STUDIES THAT WE DID, LAUREN REFERENCED THE INTERCEPT STUDY. WE ALSO DID A BRAND AWARENESS AND PERCEPTION STUDY, UM, AT THE [03:55:01] SAME TIME THAT LOOKED AT PEOPLE'S UNDERSTANDING OF SEDONA. AND IT WAS ONE OF MY FIRST DAYS HERE, AND I WAS READING THROUGH ALL THE REPORTS, AND IT WAS LIKE, THE WORDS JUMPED OUT OF A PDF OF ME, AND IT SAID, SEDONA LEAVES AN ENDURING IMPACT ON PEOPLE. I'VE NEVER SEEN A DESTINATION DESCRIBED LIKE THAT. UM, SO WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT THE WAY THAT WE WANT TO STRUCTURE A TAGLINE, WELL, WE'D LIKE TO KEEP IT SHORT AND SWEET. TWO WORDS. ONE'S AN IMPERATIVE, A CALL TO ACTION TO COME HERE AND STAY. BUT I LOVE THE CONCEPT OF STAY INSPIRED. 'CAUSE I THINK IT HAS A BEFORE, DURING, AND AFTER COMPONENT TO IT. WE WANT YOU TO COME HERE TO BE INSPIRED. THAT'S A CHALLENGE. DO YOU ACCEPT IT? ARE YOU WILLING TO KIND OF LET GO AND EXPERIENCE THIS PLACE FOR WHAT IT IS WHILE YOU'RE HERE AND YOU ARE STAYING HERE, YOU WILL REMAIN INSPIRED AND WHEN YOU LEAVE, YOU WILL CONTINUE TO BE INSPIRED. SO I JUST LIKE THAT THERE'S SORT OF A CIRCULAR COMPONENT TO THE WAY THAT THAT TAGLINE'S STRUCTURED. UM, SO I JUST WANNA KINDA SHARE THAT. YEAH. THANK YOU MAYOR LAUREN, I'M GONNA TAKE YOU UP ON YOUR INVITATION TO GO BACK JUST A STEP. MM-HMM. IN OUR SUMMER CAMPAIGN WE TALKED ABOUT, BE AWARE, BE INFORMED, BE IN THE MOMENT. NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT THE NEXT CAMPAIGN, PERHAPS WHETHER THIS TAGLINE THAT WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT, STAY INSPIRED. ARE WE TAKING ANY, LAUREN YOU'VE MENTIONED SHARES AND REACTIONS THAT YOU WERE KIND OF PAYING ATTENTION TO, BUT ARE WE MEASURING, ARE WE, ARE WE GONNA MEASURE THE USE OF THESE WORDS THAT WE'RE SPENDING A LOT OF TIME AND MONEY SORT OF FOCUSING ON SO THAT WE KNOW THAT IT'S ACT, THE, OUR CAMPAIGN IS ACTUALLY BEING RECEIVED AND ECHOED? ARE WE LOOKING AT INFLUENCERS USE OF THOSE WORDS, OR JUST SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS AND TRYING TO TRACK THE USE OF THE TAGLINES AND THE CAMPAIGN SLOGANS THAT WE'RE PUTTING OUT? YEAH, WE CAN CERTAINLY TRACK, UM, THE HASHTAG STAY INSPIRED. UM, BUT IT'S REALLY, IT'S REALLY HARD. YOU'RE KIND OF TOUCHING ON, UM, VISITOR BEHAVIOR, KIND OF CIRCLING THAT. AND HOW DO I, HOW DO I MEASURE IF WE ARE INFLUENCING VISITOR BEHAVIOR OR NOT? UM, I KIND OF COME BACK TO SOME THINGS THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT INTERNALLY, WHICH IS THAT I CAN'T NECESSARILY MEASURE THE CHANGE IN VISITOR BEHAVIOR UNLESS I'M ASKING THINGS IN A RESIDENT SENTIMENT SURVEY OR A VISITOR SENTIMENT SURVEY, WHICH IS PERCEPTION, NOT ALWAYS REALITY. RIGHT? SO, YOU KNOW, THE DATA POINT IS WHAT IT IS, BUT THAT'S REALLY ONE OF THE ONLY WAYS I FEEL LIKE I CAN MEASURE, UM, IF, IF, IF THE CAMPAIGN IS, IS DELIVERING ON, ON THOSE TYPES OF WORDS. DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE? IT, IT DOES. AND THAT'S EXACTLY SORT OF WHERE MY HIT IS AT, IS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE DOING THIS NOT ONLY TO INCREASE REVENUES, BUT TO CHANGE BEHAVIOR. AND SO WHAT ARE THE MEASURES THAT WE'RE KIND OF PUTTING OUT THERE TO MEASURE THE EFFECT OF TRYING TO CHANGE BEHAVIOR? I KNOW IT'S, YEAH, LIKE WAY ABOVE MY PAY GRADE AND NOT EVEN A ACADEMIC SUBJECT THAT I'M INTERESTED IN AT ALL. BUT NONETHELESS, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO SORT OF DO SOMETHING TO GAUGE OUR PROGRESS BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT. IT'S WHY WE'RE ALL HERE IS WE'RE TRYING TO HAVE CHANGE FROM JUST PAST BEHAVIORS OF RIGHT. DRIVING REVENUE AND TRYING TO ACTUALLY CHANGE BEHAVIOR. RIGHT. UM, I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT WHAT'S THE CADENCE OF THESE SURVEYS? THEY'RE EXPENSIVE UP TO $20,000 EACH. AND SO DO I DO IT EVERY OTHER YEAR IN WHICH WE DO THIS BIG, YOU KNOW, ON THE GROUND SURVEY WITH OUR VISITORS. AND ALSO, UM, THE RESIDENT SENTIMENT SURVEY, THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT, THE WORKLOAD COMES IN DIFFERENT WAVES ON EACH OF THOSE. UM, YOU PUT IN A BUNCH OF FRONT LOAD WORK ON THE, ON THE RESIDENT SURVEY, AND THEN ALL YOU DO IS PUSH IT OUT AND WAIT FOR THE ANSWERS, YOU KNOW, VERSUS THE ON THE GROUND RESIDENT OR THE VISITOR INTERCEPT SURVEY IS LIKE LOTS OF LABOR INTENSIVE DURING THAT DATA COLLECTION TIME. SO, UM, I AM MY, IN MY MIND I'M THINKING ABOUT A TWO YEAR CADENCE OF, OF CHECKING IN WITH THOSE SURVEYS AND SEEING IF WE'RE MOVING THE NEEDLE IN ANY WAY. YOU HAD SAID THAT YOU CAN MEASURE THE USE OF THE HASHTAGS. IS THAT SOMETHING WE ARE DOING? IS IT IN YOUR PLAN TO ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE USE OF THESE WORDS THAT WE'RE SPENDING SO MUCH TIME AND ENERGY CREATING? ONCE I HAVE A STAMPED, UH, BRAND THAT I CAN ACTUALLY DO THAT WITH? WE CAN, IT IS NOT IN A PLAN, BUT I DON'T, I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE EASILY MEASURED AS WE'RE GOING ALONG. OKAY. THANK YOU, MAYOR. CONTINUE ON. OKAY. [04:00:01] WERE YOU DONE? YES. YOUR GOOD STORY. OKAY. YEAH. GREAT. UM, SO LET'S DISCUSS THE LOGO ITSELF. , UM, THE TAB RECOMMENDED THIS LOGO BECAUSE IT IS INSPIRED BY THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENT. UM, WITH THE RAW BEAUTY AND THE ROCK FORMATIONS, YOU CAN SEE IT'S, IT'S BLOCKY IN THAT WAY. IT'S FRIENDLY, IT'S INVITING. UM, AND THE STROKE THROUGH THE LETTERS IS VERY MUCH SEDONA. IN FACT, THAT IS THE OUTLINE OF THUNDER MOUNTAIN. UH, WE THOUGHT THAT THE LOCALS WOULD APPRECIATE, UM, MAYBE SOMETHING ONLY A LOCAL WOULD WOULD BE ABLE TO POINT OUT IN THERE. BUT ALSO FROM A VISITOR'S PERSPECTIVE, THEY COULD SEE THAT THAT IS, UM, THE OUTLINE OF, OF SOMETHING COOL IN SEDONA. UM, IT ALSO LOOKS REALLY NICE WITH AN IMAGE BEHIND IT BECAUSE THE LINE SERVES AS, UH, A NICE WAY TO KIND OF HIGHLIGHT THE NEGATIVE SPACE. IMAGINE, UM, YOU KNOW, IMAGERY BEHIND IT, WHICH YOU'RE GONNA SEE IN, IN THE CAMPAIGN EXECUTION. BUT HERE ARE THE PRIOR LOGOS THAT WE, UM, WORKED WITH. UH, YOU CAN SEE THAT ONE A, ONE B AND ONE C ARE ALL KIND OF A, A RENDITION OF EACH OTHER. AND IT WAS PLAYING OFF THE EXISTING, UM, KIND OF CURSIVE, UH, SEDONA LOGO THAT WE ARE USING RIGHT NOW. UM, NUMBER TWO IS MORE KIND OF ELEGANT, UM, DISTINGUISHED, CLASSY. UM, NUMBER THREE IS MORE OF WHAT WE CONSIDER TO BE THE ARTISTIC LOGO. AND THEN NUMBER FOUR IS, UM, AN ITERATION OF WHAT WE'VE LANDED ON TODAY ON THE COLOR PALETTE. BEFORE YOU YES, SORRY. UM, BECAUSE I'M FAMILIAR WITH THE OUTLINE OF THUNDER MOUNTAIN AND OVER TO COFFEE POT. IT, I OBVIOUSLY RESONATES. I SEE THAT THAT'S WHAT IT IS. BUT THIS IS THE EYES THAT ARE LOOKING AT THIS ARE EYES WHO HAVE NOT, ARE NOT FAMILIAR AND HAVE NOT SEEN IT BEFORE. AND I'M JUST GIVING YOU SOME FEEDBACK ON THAT. I'M NOT SURE. WAS THEIR DISCUSSION ABOUT LIKE, IF THAT ACTUALLY DID REPRESENT IT ENOUGH? YOU KNOW, WHAT THE RED ROCKS ARE? I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S NOT RED. IT'S, IT LOOKS LIKE A BREAK IN THE LETTERS. IT, IT LOOKS LIKE MAYBE LIKE A HEART MONITOR OR SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, WE DID GET THAT FEEDBACK AS YOU DID GET THAT FEEDBACK. OKAY. BUT YET THIS IS STILL THE RECOMMENDATION, EVEN WITH THAT FEEDBACK, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE CAN'T CHANGE IT TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS, I MEAN, WE STARTED WITH, DO I HAVE A MOUSE? NO. UM, WE STARTED WITH WHAT'S ON THE BOTTOM RIGHT HERE. MM-HMM. , WHICH WAS VERY NONDESCRIPT. RIGHT? THAT COULD BE A RIVER, IT COULD BE A TRAIL, IT COULD BE A MOUNTAIN RANGE, IT COULD BE A, A MESA. UM, WHICH WE HAVE A FEW OF, NOT MANY, BUT A FEW OF. UM, AND THE TAB SAID, YOU KNOW, IT'D BE REALLY GREAT IF IT LOOKED LIKE A MOUNTAIN RANGE IN SEDONA. UM, I PERSONALLY THINK THAT CATHEDRAL IS A LITTLE PLAYED OUT, UM, AND THE CHAMBER LOGO IS CATHEDRAL. AND SO WE WERE TRYING TO BE DIFFERENT AND SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY PLAYED WITH, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S ACTUALLY HARD TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE SOMETHING EXACTLY IN SEDONA WITH THIS MANY LETTERS. AND SO THUNDER MOUNTAIN DID, UH, KIND OF FIT THE NEED THERE. BUT IF IT'S TOO EXACT AND, AND YOU ALL PREFER THAT, IT'S MORE, UM, OPEN, LIKE THE BOTTOM RIGHT, UH, OPEN BY, I MEAN, STRETCHING THE LINE OUT. UM, WE CAN GO WITH THAT AS WELL. ARE YOU, UH, ARE WE IN QUESTIONS OR COMMENT? 'CAUSE I CAN ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. FOR ME. I DON'T LIKE THE LOWER ONE. I, I, I WISH THIS WAS MORE DEFINED, NOT LESS DEFINED. OH, THE, THE EXISTING ONE. YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE MORE DEFINED, THE ONE YOU HAVE THAT IS THE PROPOSED ONE. IT'S, IT'S, YES, I WOULD LIKE THAT TO BE WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU? 'CAUSE IT'S PRETTY EXACT, TO ME. IT MEANS MAYBE PUTTING THAT LINE IN RED INSTEAD OF A BREAK SO THAT IT INDICATES THE RED ROCKS, OR HAVE IT BE BOLDER OR SOMETHING. I MEAN, AS I SAID, IT'S, THAT'S NOT STANDING, IT'S NOT MAKING THE CONNECTION ENOUGH FOR ME. BUT THAT'S JUST MY OKAY. RESPONSE. I, I, I CLEARLY SEE THAT IT'S THUNDER MOUNTAIN AND THAT IT'S, AND THAT ON THE END YOU'VE GOT COFFEE POT, I SEE CHIMNEY ROCK, YOU KNOW, BUT I DON'T THINK OTHERS MM-HMM. IS, AS I SAID, WILL GET THAT, THAT'S WHAT OUR MOUNTAIN RANGE LOOKS LIKE. MM-HMM. , YOU KNOW, SO I WOULD LIKE THAT TO STAND OUT MORE, BUT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, GET THERE IN OUR DISCUSSION. WHAT IF I SHOW YOU THE COLOR PALETTE AND THE OTHER EXECUTIONS OF THE LOGO, AND THEN WE CAN CIRCLE BACK TO THIS. DOES THAT SOUND GOOD? OKAY. I KNOW WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH THAT. THAT WOULD BE GOOD. OKAY. YEAH. GO. MAYBE JUST ONE COMMENT TO COLOR THE CONVERSATION. UM, A A PRETTY ESTABLISHED OUTDOOR BRAND. PATAGONIA HAS THE PATAGONIA LANDSCAPE IN THEIR LOGO, AND IT IS NOT, UM, [04:05:01] LIMITED TO THE LOGO. UM, AND THE TIE WITH THE NAME PATAGONIA. PATAGONIA PUTS EMPHASIS ON THE PLACE. AND I THINK THERE'S OPPORTUNITY, UM, TO INVITE CURIOSITY AROUND WHAT THAT MIGHT BE, WHAT THAT REPRESENTS, AND TO WEAVE THE BACKDROP INTO THE BROADER STORY AND THE BRAND, MUCH LIKE PATAGONIA DOES, BOTH IN THEIR LOGO AND IN THEIR CONTENT ON THEIR WEBSITE. UM, THEY ARE OBVIOUSLY A NORTH AMERICAN COMPANY, BUT THEY'RE INCREDIBLY LINKED TO A PLACE WHERE, UH, YOU KNOW, REALLY THEIR ORIGIN STORY BEGINS IN PATAGONIA. SO I THINK THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO INVITE THAT CURIOSITY THROUGH CONTENT, THROUGH, UM, BEING MORE, UH, DELIBERATE IN COMMUNICATING AROUND THE, THE, UM, THE LANDSCAPE IN THE LOGO. THANKS. UM, SO HERE'S THE COLOR PALETTE. UM, THESE ARE PHOTOS FROM OUR, UH, EVERYTHING EXCEPT THE TORO. WE SANDSTONE. THESE ARE ALL PHOTOS FROM OUR SPRING PHOTO SHOOT. SO THEY WERE TAKEN DIRECTLY OUT OF SEDONA, WHICH IS REALLY NICE. BUT YOU CAN SEE THAT IT'S, IT'S BRIGHT, IT'S FRIENDLY, IT'S HAPPY, UM, WARM, ALL THINGS THAT WE WANNA BE. AND HERE'S JUST DIFFERENT EXECUTIONS, UM, OF THE LOGO WITH, WITH THE COLOR PALETTE THAT WAS PRESENTED AND FOR THE DISCUSSION. LET'S SEE HERE. MAYBE I'LL GO BACK TO THIS AND THEN WE CAN MOVE AROUND IF WE NEED TO, BASED ON YOUR COMMENTS. SO THE, THE QUESTION THAT I HAVE FOR YOU ALL TONIGHT IS, DO YOU APPROVE THE LOGO? IF NOT, WHAT'S THE CONSENSUS ON WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE IT TO BE? DO YOU APPROVE THE TAGLINE? UM, IF NOT, WHAT'S THE CONSENSUS ON HOW TO, HOW TO MAKE IT DIFFERENTLY SO THAT YOU WOULD LIKE IT? UH, I'D LIKE TO START OFF ON THAT. I'M AS FAR AWAY FROM AN ARTIST OR HAVE ANY TYPE OF ARTISTIC, UNLESS I'M WORKING WITH WOOD. THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY. BUT I THINK IT, UH, WHAT YOU'VE COME UP WITH IS FINE FOR ME. AND I DON'T WANNA SECOND GUESS WHAT YOU, YOU AND YOUR TEAM ARE DOING, OR WHAT THE TAB IS DOING. THAT'S WHY WE HIRED, WELL, WE, WE EMPANELED THE TAB AND WE HIRED YOUR STAFF TO DO WHAT THEY DO. AND, UH, I'M NOT, I'M FINE WITH WHATEVER YOU COME UP WITH. THANKS. I HAVE A FEELING NOT EVERYBODY FEELS THAT WAY. I'M LOOKING AT FACES. WHO DO YOU WANNA GO NEXT? GO AHEAD, KATHY. OKAY. YEAH, NO, I MEAN, I, I LIKE SEDONA. STAY INSPIRED. I LIKE REDEFINE DESERT. I THINK THOSE ARE GREAT AGAIN, AND THE COLOR PALETTE HELPS SOMEWHAT. UM, I JUST, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK YOU GUYS DID A GREAT JOB. I THINK YOU ARE PROFESSIONALS AND YOU PUT A LOT TOGETHER HERE. AND I HAVE FAITH IN THAT. I'M ONLY SPEAKING FOR MYSELF WHO ALSO HAS VERY LITTLE ARTISTIC ABILITY. MY CIRCLES LOOK LIKE LINES AND MY LINES LOOK LIKE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT, UM, , BUT I, I JUST, AS I SAID, FOR ME, I LIKE THE RED ROCK FEATURE, THE, I GUESS THE LINE IF IT WAS WIDER OR SOMETHING, BUT THAT'S FOR YOU GUYS TO TAKE THAT FEEDBACK BACK. MM-HMM. YOURSELF. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I LIKE IT. I MEAN, MYSELF PERSONALLY, I TEND MORE TOWARD THE CURSIVE RATHER THAN THE BLOCK LETTERS. NOT THE CURSIVE, THE, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY GO, WHERE THEY GO, WHERE THEY GO. YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE ONE A, ONE B, ONE CI LIKE, I LIKE SORT OF THAT MM-HMM. FLOW. BUT I AM FINE WITH THE, WITH THE BLOCK BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S WHAT MAKES THE, THE MOUNTAIN RANGE WORK IN IT. RIGHT. BUT FOR ME, IT'S NOT DOMINANT ENOUGH TO MAKE A SEDONA IMPACT. RIGHT. PETE? YEAH. THANK YOU MAYOR. I DO LIKE BLOCK THE FOUR. I I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S GOOD. UH, I WILL ALWAYS SORT OF SMILE INWARDLY BECAUSE, UH, THE LITTLE WAVEFORM DOES LOOK LIKE SOME REALLY BAD EKG RESULTS THAT I SAW IN MY WARD WHEN I WAS THERE. I'M GLAD THAT MINE DIDN'T LOOK LIKE THAT. UM, AND I DO, I, BUT I, I SEE THUNDER MOUNTAIN, I SEE COFFEE POT. YOU SAID YOU SEE, UH, UH, CHIMNEY ROCK AND I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S CHIMNEY ROCK OR WHETHER THAT'S LIZARD HEAD AND IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE LIZARD HEAD. [04:10:01] IF IT'S LIZARD HEAD. AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE CHIM CHIMNEY ROCK IS, BUT THERE'S SOME FUN IN ACTUALLY POINTING THAT STUFF OUT. YEAH. BUT YOU HAVE TO KNOW IT. RIGHT. AND I THINK MANY OF OUR VISITORS IN ENMESHED THEMSELVES ONCE THEY'RE HERE AND SORT OF SORTING OUT THE NAMES OF THESE ROCKS, AND SO THERE MIGHT BE SOME MORE PRECISION THAT THAT COULD ACTUALLY BE USEFUL HERE IN, IN MY SORT OF HUMBLE OPINION. BUT I LIKE IT. I, I LIKE, I LIKE THE FORMAT, I LIKE THE COLORS. REDEFINED. DESERT IS A, IS A FINE TAGLINE AS WELL. SO I THINK IT'S BEEN A GOOD JOB. THANK YOU, DEREK. I THINK IT'S GOOD. AS, AS IS WHAT IT'S GOOD AS AS IS, RIGHT. I DIDN'T HEAR IT, HOLLY. I IS THE, THE STAY INSPIRED AND THE REDEFINED DESERT, THE SAME FONT LOOKS DIFFERENT TO ME. UM, IT IS THE SAME. AND I APOLOGIZE, TRY NOT TO FOCUS ON THE REDEFINED DESERT THAT'S COMING. THAT'S COMING IN THE, IN THE CAMPAIGN THAT I'M PITCHING NEXT. BUT IT WAS JUST FROM A SLIDE THAT I PULLED. UM, AND SO IT, IT SHOULD SAY STAY INSPIRED, BUT IT IS THE SAME FONT. IT JUST, IT IS THE SAME FONT. 'CAUSE I LIKE IT A LOT BETTER IN THE REDEFINED DESERT THAN I DO IN THE STAY INSPIRED. THAT'S WHY I WAS CURIOUS. MM-HMM. WHETHER IT'S THE SAME FONT. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I, I LIKE IT. I LIKE THE PALETTE. I LIKE THE WORDS. I LIKE THE FUN OF THE MOUNTAIN RANGE. I THINK IT WOULD BE, WHAT IS THAT? I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD CONVERSATION PIECE. MM-HMM. , THERE'S SOMETHING THAT'S THEY'RE DOING NOW DOWN THE VALLEY WHERE THEY'RE SHOWING PHOTOS. WHAT IS THIS? AND THE FIRST PERSON WHO CAN IDENTIFY WHAT IT IS, YOU KNOW, WINS A PRIZE THAT IT ALWAYS FEELS LIKE, WELL WHAT IS THAT? WHERE, WHERE IS THAT IN SEDONA? MM-HMM. . I THINK IT'S FUN. ALYSSA, I LIKE THAT YOU BROUGHT UP PATAGONIA AND HOW PATAGONIA USES PATAGONIA, UM, IN THE RANGE, BUT THEY ALSO MAKE THAT RANGE REALLY STAND OUT. UM, SO IT IS PART OF THEIR DEFINED LOGO. UH, WE TREAT THIS MUCH MORE SUBTLY. UM, AND WHEN I LOOK AT YOUR, YOUR COLOR PALETTE WITH LOGO SLIDE, WHICH IS WHAT I'M LOOKING AT, UM, NEXT ONE, OH, SORRY. WHEN I LOOK AT THIS, THE, MY ONLY CONCERN IS, UM, IF WE REALLY WANT TO DEAL WITH THE PLAYFULNESS OF, OF HAVING THE RANGE, YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE RANGE STANDS OUT. UM, AND SOME OF THESE COLORS, THE RANGE DOES NOT STAND OUT AT ALL. UM, AND FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE COLORBLIND, THIS WILL BE COMPLETELY, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST BROKE THE LETTERS UP. UM, BECAUSE WE ARE USING THE MOST POPULAR COLORBLIND COLORS, UM, WHEN WE USE THESE REDS AND GREENS AND YELLOWS. SO, UM, I MEAN, YOU GUYS DO YOU, UM, I WOULD JUST SAY IF WE WANT TO PLAY WITH THE PLAYFULNESS OF HAVING THE MOUNTAIN RANGE THERE, WE NEED TO DECIDE IT'S IMPORTANT. UM, AND NOT, UM, SOMETHING TO SORT OF, UH, BREAK UP THE WORD SEDONA. AND, UM, TO, TO VICE MAYOR'S POINT, YOU CAN DO STUFF LIKE IF THAT RANGE IS THERE AND IT'S REALLY NOTICEABLE THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IF YOU CLICK ON SEDONA STAY INSPIRED, SOMEWHERE INSIDE OF THE DEFINITION IS, HEY, THIS IS THUNDER MOUNTAIN, CAN YOU COME HERE AND FIND IT? MM-HMM. KIND OF THING, RIGHT? BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO SEE THAT, AND THEY, YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PART OF WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO DO IS CONNECT IMMEDIATELY WITH THE MOUNTAINS IN SEDONA. UM, CERTAINLY I LOOKED IT UP. SEDONA IS THE ONLY PLACE IN THE WORLD NAMED SEDONA. SO IT WON'T BE, IT WON'T BE AN ISSUE ABOUT SEDONA BEING UNIQUE. IT'S WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT THAT PLAYFULNESS OF THE MOUNTAINS THAT, THAT YOU WANT THE ROCKS TO ALSO BE SYMBOLS OF SEDONA AND NOT JUST OUR NAME. UM, BECAUSE YOU WANT TO SAY STAY INSPIRED, NOT BY SEDONA, BUT BY THE ROCKS. MM-HMM. THAT YOU'RE GOING TO COME AND SEE IN SEDONA AND PLAY IN IN SEDONA AND, YOU KNOW, NIGHTLIFE TRANSFORMED AND ALL THOSE OTHER WONDERFUL THINGS YOU'RE ABOUT TO TALK ABOUT. SO AGAIN, THAT, THAT WOULD JUST BE MY, MY FEEDBACK FROM, UH, UH, SORT OF A CONSUMER BEHAVIOR PERSPECTIVE. IT ISN'T AT ALL BASED ON WHAT FONT YOU USE OR WHAT COLORS YOU USE, JUST LIKE WHAT IMPACT DO YOU WANT THAT TO MAKE? UM, JUST SEEING THE WORD SEDONA AND THEN YOU FALL, YOUR EYE FALLS DOWN TO STAY INSPIRED. MM-HMM. . SO, MM-HMM. . UM, YEAH, I LIKE IT. YEAH, YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT ABOUT COLORBLINDNESS AND THAT BROUGHT UP THE, THE SAME CONCERN. [04:15:01] UM, AND I THINK WHAT I MIGHT DO IS ADD TO THIS COLOR PALETTE, SOME DARKER, SOME DARKER COLORS THAT WE COULD USE WITH LIGHT BACKGROUNDS. UM, AND THEN I'M HEARING PLAYING WITH LINE WEIGHT. MM-HMM, , UM, I CAN LOOK INTO THAT. AND ALSO PATAGONIA DOES A REALLY INTERESTING THING WHERE THEY LAYER THE LINE. IT'S ACTUALLY LINES AND LINES AND LINES. UM, SO WE COULD PLAY WITH THAT TOO. SO HEAR YOU BRIAN. HI, LAUREN . I KNOW IT'S COMING. LET'S HEAR IT. UH, I LIKE STAY INSPIRED, ANDREW, THE WAY YOU SPOKE LIFE INTO THAT TAGLINE WAS GREAT. UH, DEFINITELY LIKE THAT. I WAS SURPRISED THAT THE TAB CAME BACK WITH A REDEFINED DESERT, BECAUSE I LISTENED IN ON THAT SESSION AND AT FIRST THERE WAS LIKE, WE DON'T WANNA BE TELLING PEOPLE THIS IS THE DESERT. DESERT SUCKS. YOU KNOW, UH, IT WAS KIND OF WHAT I WAS HEARING. SO IT WAS FUNNY THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT LANDED ON A CAMPAIGN NAME. ULTIMATELY. UM, I APPRECIATE MELISSA'S COMMENTS, UH, VERY MUCH, UH, THAT SHE JUST SHARED. UM, I PERSONALLY REALLY DISLIKE THIS LOGO. UM, YOU KNOW, ASK 10 PEOPLE GET 10 DIFFERENT ANSWERS, RIGHT? I MEAN, IT'S JUST, IT'S THE WAY OF IT WITH ANYTHING SUBJECTIVE LIKE THIS. BUT AS I'VE SHARED, I, I THINK THAT THE BLOCK LETTERING LOOKS LIKE SOMETHING FROM THE EIGHTIES. I THINK THAT THE MOUNTAIN RANGE THROUGH, IT JUST, IT LOOKS DISRUPTIVE TO CLEAN AND AUTHENTIC AND ARTISTIC. IT, IT JUST LOOKS GIMMICKY. AND I'VE BEEN ON THE RECEIVING END OF GIMMICKY DESIGN WORK AND MY CONSULTING LIFE THAT INFORMS THIS OPINION THAT YOU DON'T TELL PEOPLE WHAT, WHERE THEY ARE WHEN THEY KNOW WHERE THEY ARE. AND I KNOW THIS IS FOR VISITORS AS MUCH AS IT IS FOR PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE, BUT WE DON'T NEED TO BE SHOWN A MOUNTAIN RANGE. NO, WE HAVE MOUNTAINS IN SEDONA. SO I, I JUST, I REALLY DISLIKE IT. IT JUST DOES NOT, IT, IT'S NOT ELEVATED DESIGN TO ME. IT DOESN'T, IT, IT DOESN'T INSPIRE THE ARTS, THE NATURE OF ART IN SEDONA. I, I, I JUST THINK IT'S A COMPLETE MISS PERSONALLY. BUT AGAIN, ASK 10 PEOPLE GET 10 ANSWERS, AND I'M THE ONE THAT'S VOTED OFF THE ISLAND FIRST. SO , YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, I ACCEPT WHATEVER THAT WINDS UP BEING. BUT THAT'S MY FEEDBACK. AND AGAIN, I THINK MELISSA'S FEEDBACK WAS EXCELLENT. YOU KNOW, SHE AND I ARE SITTING HERE LOOKING AT PATAGONIA LOGOS, YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU BROUGHT THAT UP. AND AGAIN, EVERYTHING YOU SAID, I A HUNDRED PERCENT AGREE WITH YOU. I MEAN, THEY WERE MUCH MORE INTENTIONAL ABOUT WHAT THEY HAVE DEFINED IN THAT LOGO. AND IT, IT JUST IS A MUCH MORE ELEVATED DESIGN THAN WHAT THIS IS. SO THERE WE GO. THANK YOU. OKAY, THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR EFFORT. JUST THE SAME. OKAY. I HEARD SIX YESES WITH MODIFICATIONS AND ONE ABSOLUTE NO. UM, WHO COULD THAT HAVE BEEN, I DUNNO, , SO , BUT LET ME SEE IF I CAN WORK ON THE LINE AND MAKE YOU DISLIKE IT SLIGHTLY LESS . UM, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL DO SOME WORK ON IT. OKAY. SO LET'S MOVE INTO THE WINTER CAMPAIGN DISCUSSION. SO TONIGHT WE'D LIKE TO PRESENT YOU A DESTINATION MARKETING CAMPAIGN THAT WILL BE USED FOR UP TO TWO YEARS. UM, THE OVERARCHING CONCEPT IS REDEFINED DESERT. UM, BRIAN, TO SPEAK TO WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, IT WAS INTERESTING. WE FOUND THAT AS A TAGLINE, REDEFINED DESERT PEOPLE EITHER LOVED IT AND THEY TOTALLY GOT IT. OR IT WAS LIKE, IT DIDN'T COMPUTE, THEY COULDN'T EVEN PUT IT TOGETHER. BUT THEN WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT IT IN A CAMPAIGN FORUM, THEY SAID, OH YEAH, THAT TOTALLY MAKES SENSE. I, I GET IT. SO, UM, I WAS IN THE CAMP OF WANTING REDEFINED DESERT AS THE TAGLINE AND GOT VOTED OFF THE ISLAND, AND THAT'S OKAY. UM, BUT I, I WAS HAPPY TO SEE THAT THE TAB, UM, DID EMBRACE IT AS A CAMPAIGN CONCEPT. SO, UH, TO SPEAK TO A LITTLE BIT OF THAT, JUST LOOK AT THIS PHOTO. UH, WE LIVE IN THE MOST BEAUTIFUL DESERT IN THE WORLD, AND IN SO MANY WAYS, IT'S A DIFFERENT TYPE OF DESERT. IT'S GREEN, THERE'S WATER, IT'S COLORFUL. UM, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT THESE REALLY INTENSE [04:20:01] JUXTAPOSITIONS BETWEEN THE RED AND THE GREEN AND THE BLUES. UM, WE'RE A SMALL TOWN, BUT WE HAVE WORLD CLASS AMENITIES. THE LIST GOES ON OF, OF THE WAY THAT YOU CAN REDEFINE WHAT YOU THINK THAT THIS PLACE IS GOING TO BE. YOU KNOW, I, I KEEP SAYING THIS. IF YOU'RE IN ST. LOUIS, LET'S SAY THAT'S WHERE I'M FROM. YOU'RE IN ST. LOUIS, YOU CLOSE YOUR EYES, YOU ASK SOMEBODY TO TELL ME, TELL ME WHAT THE DESERT LOOKS LIKE. THIS IS NOT IT. THEY'RE GONNA TELL YOU SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE SAGUARO NATIONAL PARK, RIGHT? SAND EVERYWHERE. SAGUARO CACTUS IS MAYBE AN EAGLE FLYING ABOVE, RIGHT? UM, AND SO THIS IS JUST TOTALLY DIFFERENT. AND SO WE WANNA EMBRACE THAT AND REALLY KIND OF RUN WITH WHAT CAN COME AFTER THE WORD REDEFINE. UM, SO YOU'RE GONNA SEE ON THE NEXT SLIDE THAT THE GRAPHICS AND IMAGES BREAK THE FRAME. ALSO KIND OF SURPRISING YOU PLAYING WITH THIS REDEFINE THEME. UM, AND ALSO YOU CAN KIND OF PLAY UP THIS WORD REDEFINE. UM, JUST THE WORD REDEFINE ITSELF ASKS YOU TO RETHINK THE WAY THAT YOU MIGHT BE THINKING ABOUT SOMETHING, WHICH WE REALLY LIKE. UM, AND BECAUSE OF THIS, IT ALLOWS US TO NOT ONLY LEAN INTO SOME OF THE MORE TRADITIONAL COME STAY, PLAY TYPE OF MESSAGING, BUT ALSO LEAN INTO THE STEWARDSHIP MESSAGE THAT MAKES YOU THINK ABOUT, UM, WHAT IT'S TRYING TO SAY. THAT A GOOD EXAMPLE THAT WE HAVE IS REDEFINE NIGHTLIFE, RIGHT? IT'S IN, IN WHEREVER YOU LIVE. NIGHTLIFE MIGHT BE GOING OUT AND BEING AROUND A BUNCH OF PEOPLE AND HEARING SOME, SOME LOUD LIVE MUSIC AND HAVING A, A, A GREAT DINNER, MAYBE TAKING AN UBER, RIGHT? ALL OF THESE THINGS HERE. IT'S MAYBE YOU'RE GONNA BE WITH ONE OTHER PERSON, YOU'RE GONNA BE UNDER THE STARS. YOU'RE GONNA BE HAVING A, A MAGICAL EXPERIENCE THAT YOU'RE NEVER GONNA FORGET. UM, REDEFINE RESPONSIBILITY. THAT'S REALLY KIND OF LEANING INTO THE STEWARDSHIP MESSAGE. IT'S MAKING PEOPLE THINK ABOUT, OH, THERE'S A RANGER THERE. WHY WOULD THERE BE A RANGER THERE? OH, RANGERS REMIND ME OF MAPS. THEY REMIND ME OF WATER. THEY REMIND ME TO WEAR THE RIGHT SHOES TO WEAR A HAT, SUNSCREEN, YOU KNOW, THESE TYPES OF THINGS. SO KIND OF PLANTING THAT SEED, UM, REDEFINED DISCOVERY, THAT'S MORE OF THAT TRADITIONAL COME STAY PLAY TYPE OF MESSAGING. UM, AND THEN ANOTHER EXAMPLE, WE HAVE ABOUT 17 OF THESE THAT WE'VE THOUGHT OF FOR THIS CAMPAIGN. SO I'M JUST CHERRY PICKING A FEW. BUT REDEFINE MINDFULNESS. WE KNOW THAT THIS IS A, A REALLY KIND OF CORE TENANT OF SEDONA AND, AND WHO IT IS. AND SO WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE AND DO A NOD, UM, THAT KIND OF SHOWED, UM, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE MIND, THIS IS WHAT MINDFULNESS LOOKS LIKE IN SEDONA. UM, I HAVE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT EXECUTIONS IN HERE JUST IN CASE IT'S HELPFUL TO SEE. UM, THIS IS OBVIOUSLY AN ONLINE AD REDEFINED FAMILY TIME. UM, WE ARE NOT PITCHING ANY PRINT ADS, BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS NICE. UM, AND I'D LIKE TO READ THE COPY 'CAUSE IT SPEAKS TO KIND OF WHAT THAT, UM, CAMPAIGN IS. FORGET WHAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW ABOUT THE DESERT AND SEDONA LEAVES DANCE IN THE TREES AND COOL RIVERS FLOW TRAILS, WIND THROUGH GREEN FORESTS AND STRIKING ROCK FORMATIONS. EPIC VIEWS A WASH AND COLOR INSPIRE YOU AT EVERY TURN. AND FIRST RATE DINING DELIGHTS VISITORS WITH DISHES THAT WILL LEAVE YOU WANTING MORE. IT'S TIME TO RETHINK YOUR IDEA OF THE DESERT AND EMBRACE A PLACE, LIKE A PLACE UNLIKE ANY OTHER. LEARN MORE@SCENICSDONAH.COM. UM, HERE'S A FEW DIFFERENT, UM, EXECUTIONS. YOU CAN SEE HOW, UH, WE'RE KIND OF PUSHING AND PULLING WITH THAT LINE, THE BORDERLINE, AND THEN PULLING THINGS OUT, UM, ABOVE THE FRAME AND BEHIND THE FRAME, WHICH IS NICE. BUT SAME THING, REDEFINE RESPONSIBILITY. UM, REDEFINE, STOP AND SMELL THE ROSES. THAT'S CUTE. I LOVE THAT. . YEAH, I LIKE THAT. REDEFINE HAPPY HOUR. UM, REDEFINE SOUVENIRS. I THINK YOU NAILED THAT. YEAH. THANKS. UM, CHRISTIAN, I'M GONNA HAVE YOU TALK ABOUT THE AD STRATEGY. YEAH. SO, UH, JUST LIKE WE DID LAST YEAR, UH, WITH A BIT MORE DATA, UM, WE LOOKED AT WHAT MARKETS TO GO INTO, UM, AND WE NARROWED IT DOWN TO THIS LIST. UH, YOU'LL SEE DALLAS IS ABSENT FROM THE LIST. UM, PRIMARY INPUTS HERE WERE VISITATION. HOW LIKELY ARE WE TO SEE VISITATION FROM THESE, UH, SPENDING DATA? AND THEN, UH, LOOKED AT PERFORMANCE FROM LAST YEAR, UM, ALL WITH A CAVEAT THAT OF COURSE WE'LL BE MONITORING, UM, THAT SPEND AND, UM, RETURN BY MARKET, UM, AS WE GO, UH, SO THAT WE CAN OPTIMIZE, UH, THE DOLLARS TO WHERE, UH, WHERE WE'RE GETTING THE BEST RESULTS. YEAH. SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF WE'RE SEEING THAT, YOU KNOW, MIDWAY THROUGH THE CAMPAIGN, NEW YORK'S NOT GIVING US A GOOD RETURN, WE CAN ALLOCATE, ALLOCATE THOSE DOLLARS TO [04:25:01] A MARKET THAT WE DO SEE AS WELL PERFORMING. AND WHAT IS THE, WHAT IS THE STRATEGY? YOU SAY AD STRATEGY? IS THAT DIGITAL ADS? YEAH, THIS YEAR IT'S, UH, PRIMARILY DIGITAL FOR WINTER. WE DO HAVE, UM, SOME THOUGHTS FOR ADDITIONAL EXECUTIONS, UM, LATER IN THE YEAR. UH, BUT FOR RIGHT NOW, YEAH. THE NEXT SLIDE IS THE AD STRATEGY SPECIFICALLY. MM-HMM. . GO AHEAD. THANK YOU, MAYOR. SO, UH, YEAH, THANK YOU LAUREN. SO, YOU KNOW, YOU AND I COMMUNICATED BACK AND FORTH AND CHRISTIAN, I'D LIKE TO HEAR YOUR, UH, ADVICE BACK TO COUNCIL. WE'VE GOT, WHAT IS IT, 5, 10, 11 CITIES THERE. BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE, THE ROI OR THE ROAS, UM, YOU KNOW, PHOENIX DOMINATED OUT OF THIS SUMMER CAMPAIGN. AND OF COURSE WE'VE TALKED IN THE PAST ABOUT DO WE OR DON'T WE, YOU KNOW, LOVE PHOENIX, RIGHT? DO WE OR DON'T WE WANT TO ADVERTISE THERE? WELL, PHOENIX DOMINATED THAT CAMPAIGN AND SOME OF THE OTHERS ARE DOGS BY COMPARISON. SO SHARE A LITTLE BIT, WOULD YOU PLEASE ABOUT WHY GO AHEAD AND, AND PUSH 11 MARKETS WHERE REALISTICALLY WE PROBABLY HAVE A SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER RETURN EXPECTATION COMPARED TO PHOENIX, FOR INSTANCE. YEAH, GOOD QUESTION. I THINK, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S A PUSH AND PULL OF, UM, OBVIOUSLY WE WANT TO RETURN A POSITIVE IN, UH, RETURN ON YOUR INVESTMENT. I THINK, UM, WHAT WE ARE ALSO TRYING TO BALANCE IS, UM, MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE FINDING VALUES BASED, UH, VISITORS. AND WE HAD IDENTIFIED, UH, THROUGH PAST VISITOR, UM, DATA AND, AND JUST SORT OF LOOKING AT WHAT PEOPLE ARE DOING, UM, HOW THEY'RE INTERACTING HERE, WHERE THEY'RE SPENDING MONEY. AND, YOU KNOW, THE, THE MARKETS OF SEATTLE AND NEW YORK SPECIFICALLY, WHICH WERE THE MOST UNDERPERFORMING, THEY DO SHOW, UM, THAT THEY, THE INTENT, UM, TO VISIT IN THE WAY THAT WE, UM, I BELIEVE WE WANT VISITORS TO VISIT, STAY LONGER, SPENDING MORE, UM, AND, YOU KNOW, NOT JUST, UH, KIND OF COMING IN FOR THE DAY AND OUT THEY GO. SO IT'S A BIT OF THAT. AND I THINK BECAUSE THE MARKET SIZE, IT'S GONNA TAKE, YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA TAKE A BIT TO PENETRATE. UM, WE HAVE, UH, A BIGGER BUDGET THIS YEAR THAN WE DID LAST YEAR BY, UM, I WANT TO SAY THREE X MM-HMM. . UM, SO I THINK WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CONTINUE TO LOOK AT THAT. WE'RE ALSO, BECAUSE IT'S DIGITAL, I THINK WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE A SHIFT. UM, WE KNOW WHAT THE WATCH OUTS ARE, UM, BASED ON HOW THINGS HAVE PERFORMED IN THE PAST. UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'LL DO AT THE OUTSET IS JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT, UH, WE SAW THE SPENDING REALLY LEAN HEAVILY TOWARDS NEW YORK AND SEATTLE LAST YEAR. WE'LL TRY TO PUT THE BRAKES ON THAT A LITTLE BIT AND, AND BE A LITTLE BIT MORE, UM, EQUITABLE AND WHERE THE SPEND IS GOING AND LET'S SEE HOW THAT CHANGES THINGS. UM, BUT YEAH, I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALWAYS, UH, MARKET EXPANSION IS, IS ALWAYS TOUGH. I I, YOU KNOW, UM, WE'RE ALSO PREPARED TO LOOK AT FEWER MARKETS. I THINK WE HAVE A GOOD IDEA OF IF WE WERE, IF THE, THE SORT OF THE THOUGHT PROCESS WAS, HEY, LET'S, LET'S SCALE BACK. I THINK WE HAVE A REALLY GOOD LIST THAT WE COULD GO TO, UH, FOR THAT. SO, UM, BUT AGAIN, I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO BALANCE A DESIRE, UH, FOR THE, THAT RIGHT VISITOR TO BE HERE, UM, WITH, UM, RETURNING A POSITIVE, UM, ROI. OKAY. SO BOOKING WINDOWS HAVE BEEN COLLAPSING, RIGHT, CHERYL? SO GIVEN THAT FACT, WE KICK THIS OFF VERY SOON, APPARENTLY. 'CAUSE MID-NOVEMBER IS LIKE NOW. UM, SO WE KICK IT OFF SOON, LIKE HOW LONG BEFORE YOU PULL THE RIP CORD AND SAY, OKAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, NEW YORK AND SEATTLE ARE STILL DOGS, LIKE HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE FOR YOU TO DECIDE, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE'RE BETTER OFF TO PUT THAT MONEY BACK INTO PHOENIX. WE COULD PIVOT IN JANUARY, I IMAGINE, OR EVEN MID, WELL, MAY, MID DECEMBER MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT EARLY, BUT BY, I WOULD SAY BY MID-DECEMBER, REALLY A MONTH INTO THE CAMPAIGN, I FEEL LIKE WE'LL KNOW WHICH WAY THE WIND'S BLOWING. I DON'T THINK IT'S GONNA BE, UM, YEAH, [04:30:01] I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO NEED, YOU KNOW, EIGHT WEEKS TO DECIDE. I THINK WE'LL GET SOME INDICATORS, UM, AND, AND CAN MAKE A DECISION, YOU KNOW? YEAH, I THINK FOR SURE BY JANUARY. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, I, I AGREE WITH BRIAN. UM, AS FAR AS NEW YORK CITY, AND I ALWAYS WANTED TO GO TO NEW YORK CITY, YOU KNOW, ADVERTISE NEW YORK CITY, BUT SEEING THOSE NUMBERS, THOSE ARE COMPELLING OF NOT TO GO, UH, THESE ARE ALL DIGITAL ADS, UH, LIKE YOUTUBE ADS POP UP, THAT KINDA STUFF? OR IS IT THE, UH, IN, YOU'RE IN THE RANGE AND IT, UM, WELL THAT GIVES ME THE ANSWER. I IPAD, YOU KNOW, UH, PAID GOOGLE GEOFENCING. IS THAT THE WORD YOU'RE LOOKING FOR? YES. THAT, THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. GEOFENCING, AS OPPOSED TO THE OLD SCHOOL SKY HARBOR AIRPORT UP, AND I KNOW THEY'RE SUPER EXPENSIVE, RIGHT? IS THERE ANY VALUE IN THOSE ANYMORE? IS IT JUST GEOFENCING THAT YOU GET THE MOST BANG FOR YOUR BUCK? YEAH. UM, MY GOAL WITH THIS PROGRAM HAS BEEN TO TAKE LITTLE STEPS EACH TIME, UM, TESTING PIVOTING, TESTING PIVOTING, UM, TO SEE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU RECALL, OUR FIRST AD STRATEGY FOR THE LAST WINTER CAMPAIGN WAS ALL, UM, WHAT THEY CALL DATA PHI. UH, THAT'S THE VENDOR THAT WE USE, BUT ALL ATTRIBUTION BASED ADS. SO ALL DIGITAL ADS SHOWING ON ANY NUMBER OF WEBSITES THAT YOU VISIT, UM, IF WE'VE TARGETED YOU AND OUR AUDIENCE. UM, THEN WE MOVED INTO, UM, META IN OUR SUMMER CAMPAIGN, AND YOU'LL SEE HERE THAT, UH, AND, AND WE DID PAID GOOGLE SEARCH FOR THAT ONE TOO, BUT THAT WAS MOSTLY FOR OUR WEBSITE RANKING. UM, AND YOU'LL SEE HERE THAT THE DIFFERENCE IS WE'RE DOING META, UM, ATTRACTION MESSAGING, SO IT'S NOT JUST A STEWARDSHIP MESSAGE IN A 25 MILE RADIUS AND IN PHOENIX, IT'S ACTUALLY THE MARKETS THAT WE HAVE LISTED. WE'LL BE DOING, UM, UH, ATTRACTION, ATTRACTION MESSAGING ON META WITH A GEOFENCE, UM, IN THAT WAY. SO I FEEL LIKE EACH TIME WE TAKE, UM, A LITTLE BIT MORE RISK IN OUR, IN OUR STRATEGY AND, UM, WE'VE TALKED WITH DVA ABOUT, OKAY, YOU KNOW, WHAT DOES SUMMER OF NEXT YEAR LOOK LIKE? IS IT A MAGAZINE AD? IS IT UM, PAID MEDIA PLACEMENT? IS IT, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE TYPES OF THINGS. I CAN SAY WE AREN'T LOOKING AT A BANNER AT THE PHOENIX AIRPORT, UM, ALTHOUGH I LOOK AT IT EVERY TIME THAT I GO THERE AND THINK THAT'S A REALLY GOOD PLACE FOR AN ADVERTISEMENT THAT, BUT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TAKE AN INCREMENTAL APPROACH. LONG STORY SHORT, YOU KNOW, MY FEELING, DO WHAT YOU'RE DOING. YEAH. IT'S, IT SEEMS TO BE WORKING. I JUST WANT TO KNOW YOUR FEELINGS ON THE ALTERNATIVES. BUT IF IT'S WORKING AND IF WE CAN GET SOME MORE HEADS IN BEDS UP HERE THAT ARE WILLING TO PAY, YOU KNOW, THE, UH, THE DAILY RATES, IT WOULD BE GOOD. BUT FOR NEXT YEAR, IF IT GETS, START KICKING BUTT AND ACCOMPLISHING THAT. SO WE ALSO HAVE, UM, A UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY, WERE YOU ABOUT TO SAY THIS, UM, THAT WE HAVE WITH A OT IN WHICH WE SIGN UP FOR, UM, A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES. BUT A PORTION OF THAT 50 K THAT THEY MATCH US ON IS ADVERTISING. AND IT ALLOWS US TO KIND OF TEST THE WATERS, UM, ON, UH, THINGS LIKE MAGAZINE ADS AND SEE IF WE GET ANY, IF WE CAN TELL ANY RETURN ON INVESTMENT ON THOSE THINGS. SO IT'S, IT'S A WAY TO SPEND A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY, THEY'LL MATCH US, AND THEN WE CAN SEE, DID WE LIKE THAT? DID WE NOT LIKE THAT? DID WE FEEL LIKE IT WAS WORTH IT? DID WE FEEL LIKE IT'S BIG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO WRAP INTO A, A SUMMER CAMPAIGN? AND HOW WOULD YOU KNOW IF THAT MAGAZINE, WHATEVER IT IS, WOULD WORK? IS IT A DIFFERENT UNIQUE QR CODE THAT PEOPLE WOULD USE THAT YOU KNOW WHERE IT'S COMING FROM, HOW IT'S, IT DEPENDS ON WHERE IT IS, BUT IF IT'S DIGITAL, THEN IT WILL BE MORE SIMILAR TO THE TYPE OF METRICS THAT THE CHAMBER WAS BRINGING TO YOU WHEN THEY WERE BRINGING METRICS, WHICH IS CLICK THROUGH RATE, TIME SPENT ON THE WEBSITE. YOU KNOW, YOU CAN DO ALL THE ANALYTICS TO, TO FIND OUT WHERE THAT PERSON COMES FROM, UM, IF THEY LAND ON YOUR WEBSITE. ALRIGHT. SO IF YOU'RE DOING A MAGAZINE THROUGH THE A OT, YOU KNOW, WHERE THAT MAGAZINE, WHAT, SEE THAT MAGAZINE'S IN, AND THEN YOU'LL KNOW WHAT ADVERTISING WORKS. MAYOR, YOU MENTIONED QR CODES FOR, FOR NON-DIGITAL PLACEMENTS. THOSE, UM, SINCE THE PANDEMIC, UH, MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE, UH, APT TO, TO ENGAGE WITH THOSE. SO, UH, INCREASINGLY WE'RE ABLE TO TAKE NON-DIGITAL PLACEMENTS AND GET DIGITAL, UM, TRACKING IN INSIGHTS FROM, FROM THOSE PLACEMENTS. YEAH. COOL. ALRIGHT. CONTINUE ON. IT'S ALREADY NINE 30. KATHY, A QUESTION. SO WE HAVEN'T GONE A FULL YEAR, SO WE HAVEN'T HIT ALL FOUR SEASONS WITH [04:35:01] ADVERTISING, RIGHT? WE DIDN'T. SO THE, AND WE DIDN'T HIT ANY OF MARCH, APRIL, MAY WITH ADVERTISING. OKAY. SO, OKAY. SO, 'CAUSE TO ME, IT, IT SEEMS LIKE, UH, THIS GOES BACK TO THE NEW YORK QUESTION ABOUT WANTING TO TEST THE WATERS THERE, WHICH I WOULD BE, I WOULDN'T WANT TO TEST THOSE WATERS BECAUSE IT'S A HOT, MUGGY PLACE. AND IF YOU'RE IN A HOT, MUGGY PLACE AND YOU'RE LOOKING AT AN AD TO GO TO THE HOT DESERT, YOU'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, IN A SUMMER CAMPAIGN, I MEAN, IT MIGHT BE LESS INCLINED, BUT IF IN THE WINTER YOU'RE THERE AND YOU SEE OUR ADS, IT MIGHT TRIGGER SOMETHING. SO, I MEAN, I, I, I WOULD BE WILLING TO PUT THE MONEY IN FOR ALL THE SAME MARKETS, UM, OVER THE COURSE OF THE, A FULL YEAR SO THAT WE CAPTURE EACH SEASON AND THEN EVALUATE WHAT NEEDS TO BE REDUCED. SO THAT'S JUST MY INPUT ON THAT. AND AGAIN, LEAVE IT TO YOU TO FIGURE THAT OUT. MM-HMM, . THANK YOU, MAYOR. SO IT'S MY TURN TO, UH, OH, HATE SOMETHING. , UH, DESECRATE THE PUNCH BOWL. VOTED OFF THE ISLAND, MAN, , YOU'RE NEXT MY TURN TO GET VOTED OFF THE ISLAND. SO I, YOU KNOW, I, WELL, I THINK THAT MOST OF WHAT I'VE SEEN HERE LOOKS GOOD. IT LOOKS ATTRACTIVE TO ME. AND, AND, UH, I THINK WHAT WE ALL EXPRESSED BEFORE, SOME OF THIS REDEFINE TERMS, SOME OF THOSE ARE BEAUTIFUL, AND I THINK THAT THEY'LL BE QUITE SUCCESSFUL. SO, BUT WHAT, WHERE IT'S SHORT FOR ME IS THAT I'D LIKE YOU TO, I SHOULD SAY REDEFINE SUCCESS, BUT IT'S REALLY JUST DEFINE SUCCESS A LITTLE BIT BETTER THAN WE ARE. YOU KNOW? SURE. YOU'VE MAYBE GOT SOME ROAS TARGETS. I'M NOT SUPER IMPRESSED OR CONVINCED ABOUT THAT YET, ESPECIALLY WHEN I LOOKED AT YOUR DATA AND I SAW THE ROAS SPREAD FROM VARIOUS PLACES. IT CAN BE ANYWHERE FROM NEGATIVE TO 1200, OR, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THAT TELLS ME THAT THERE'S METHODOLOGY INCONSISTENCIES BETWEEN PLACES AND WE REALLY DON'T HAVE A GOOD HANDLE EXACTLY ON HOW SOME OF THIS STUFF IS DONE YET. UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S A PLACE TO START. BUT I GUESS I'M, MY QUESTION TO YOU IS WHERE ARE WE IN SORT OF THE OVERALL METRICS OF SUCCESS? YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH SPENDING IS ENOUGH? HOW MUCH VISITATION ARE WE AIMING FOR? WHAT, WHAT ARE YOU EXPECTING ON THIS CAMPAIGN TO SEE IN A BOOST? MM-HMM. , I, I WOULD LIKE TO JUST, YOU KNOW, AS WE MOVE FORWARD THROUGH THIS, I KNOW WE'RE ONLY AT THE START, AND WE'RE PROBABLY A LONG WAY FROM THE CARING CAPACITY OF THIS TOWN, UH, TODAY COMPARED TO, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE HAD BACK IN THE PANDEMIC DAYS. AND WE'VE MAKING SOME IMPROVEMENTS TO IMPROVE OUR CARING CAPACITY. BUT I, I THINK THAT WE NEED TO BE THINKING AND SORT OF SETTING SOME OF THESE TARGETS OF WHERE WE'RE GOING. NOT JUST ROAS, NOT JUST SPENDING DOLLARS, NOT JUST LOOKING AT THE RETURN, BUT SORT OF SOME OF THE BIGGER METRICS HERE THAT WE'VE STRUGGLED WITH IN THE PAST. SO CAN YOU HELP ME BRAINSTORM SOME OF THOSE? IS IT OCCUPANCY? IS IT RESIDENT SENTIMENT? IS IT, UM, IS IT NUMBER OF VISITS, WHICH I CAN'T GET UNTIL AFTER THE FACT. I CAN'T BE PREDICTIVE WITH THAT. LIKE, UM, DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS ON BRAINSTORMING OF A METRIC THAT I SHOULD BE MEASURING THAT I'M NOT DOING NOW? YEAH, I, I, YOU KNOW, I CAN, I CAN BRAINSTORM WITH YOU AND I HAVE NO IDEA THE ACHIEVABILITY OF BRAINS, YOU KNOW, THE, UH, UH, GETTING MEASURES ON THOSE THINGS. BUT YEAH, THE MEASURES THAT YOU MENTIONED ARE GREAT. TRAFFIC DELAY, NUMBER OF DAYS WITH TRAFFIC DELAY, THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN TOWN, THE, WHAT IS THE REVENUE TAX REVENUE GENERATED. WHAT'S OUR GOAL IS, IS OUR GOAL 10 TIMES AS MUCH AS WE'VE GOT CURRENTLY, OR JUST TWICE? MM-HMM, OR 1.2 TIMES? I, I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT IS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO GO. I DON'T THINK ANY OF US, NO, I HAVEN'T HEARD IT FROM YOU EITHER ABOUT WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO GO OTHER THAN JUST MORE, AND JUST MORE DOESN'T WORK FOR ME. YEAH. AND I THINK IT'S, UM, I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL AT SOME POINT TO DEFINE WHAT HEALTHY OCCUPANCY IS. NOW THAT'S OBVIOUSLY A MOVING TARGET WITH EVERY HOTEL THAT COMES IN. YOU INCREASE SUPPLY, THEREFORE OCCUPANCY SHIFTS. BUT, UM, I THINK WE'RE SITTING AT WHAT, 64, 60 5%, 66. UM, AND SO ARE WE GOING FOR MORE? UM, ARE WE TRYING TO SUPPORT OUR LODGING COMMUNITY RATHER THAN SHORT-TERM RENTALS? THEY'RE GONNA, YOU KNOW, DO SHORT TERM RENTALS GET TO RIDE THE COATTAILS? YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE'S A LOT OF INTRICACIES WITH IT. UM, BUT I THINK, I MEAN, ANDREW AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT [04:40:01] THAT FROM A STRATEGY. OUR GOAL IS NOT TO DISPLACE PEOPLE FROM COMING IN THE SPRING AND THE FALL BECAUSE IT FEELS IMPOSSIBLE. UM, BUT RATHER HELP LIFT UP, UM, EVEN IF IT'S IN THESE SMALL POPS, EVEN IF IT'S JUST IN SMALL WEEKENDS, UM, TO HELP LIFT UP OUR SUMMER AND OUR WINTER TIMES IN SEDONA AND THEN SWITCH TO A, UH, A MANAGEMENT MESSAGE DURING, UM, THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE IN THE SECOND PARAGRAPH, IS MOVING INTO, UM, WHAT WE CALL AN ALWAYS ON CAMPAIGN. AND MARKETING IS MARKETING, EVEN IF IT'S STILL SUSTAINABILITY MESSAGING. UM, BUT THE GOAL IS TO, UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY'RE IN MARKET HERE TO SHOW THEM STEWARDSHIP MESSAGES LIKE WE DID IN OUR SUMMER CAMPAIGN, BUT DO THAT DURING THE SPRING AND THE FALL AS WELL. SO, NO, I DON'T, I DIDN'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR YOU EXCEPT TO MAYBE AGREE WITH YOU THAT I WOULD LIKE, I WOULD LIKE TO SOMEHOW FIGURE OUT WHAT ELSE I SHOULD BE MEASURING THAT I'M NOT, WHAT, WHAT AM I APPROACHING, WHAT SUCCESS BAR AM I APPROACHING? YEAH. AND, AND I HEAR YOU STRUGGLING, AND I KNOW WE ALL STRUGGLE ABOUT IT TOO. AND, YOU KNOW, EARLY ON IN THIS PROCESS, I TALKED ABOUT GETTING TO TOURISM MANAGEMENT 2.0 OR 3.0, RIGHT? AND, AND THAT'S WHAT IT IS, IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEFINE AND GET TO SOME OF THOSE THINGS. TOURISM 1.0 AND EVEN 2.0 IS JUST ABOUT HOW DO WE GET MORE PEOPLE HERE? HOW DO WE GET MORE, MORE, MORE, MORE, MORE. AND WE NEED TO GET BEYOND THAT. SO I HEAR YOU STRUGGLE. I STRUGGLE, BUT, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE, AS WE TALK ABOUT THIS STUFF ON A WHATEVER BASIS IT IS TO SORT OF HAVE THAT CONVERSATION ABOUT PROGRESS THAT YOU'VE MADE OR HAVEN'T MADE, MADE AND WHERE YOU'RE STRUGGLING AND OR THOSE THINGS THAT YOU'VE THOUGHT OUT. AND EVEN LAUREN, YOU, YOU MENTIONED TRYING TO NOT FEELING YOU'RE, IT'S A GOOD STRATEGY TO DISPLACE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE. AND SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE OFF SEASON TO KIND OF BUILDING THAT UP. I GET THAT. AND IF I WAS A BUSINESS PERSON IN THIS TOWN, THAT'S THE DIRECTION THAT I WOULD BE WANTING YOU TO GO. AND IF I WAS A RESIDENT IN THIS TOWN, THAT'S NOT THE DIRECTION I WOULD WANT YOU TO GO. YEAH. AND THAT'S A CONVERSATION THAT WE NEED TO HAVE AS WELL. YEAH. TO AT LEAST SEE IF WE CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH OF THAT REDISTRIBUTION IS TOLERABLE, RIGHT? YES. THERE'S THE IMPLICIT BARGAIN ABOUT LIVING IN A TOURISM TOWN, THAT THERE ARE TIMES FOR YOU IF YOU'RE A RESIDENT, AND RIGHT NOW WE'RE DON'T HAVE A STRATEGY TO EVEN HAVE THAT CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT THAT BALANCE IS. SO, YEAH. AND, AND IF I COMPARE IT TO THIS SUMMER, UM, MAYBE, MAYBE THERE ARE SOME TIMES WHERE BEING FLAT WOULD BE OKAY, BUT AT THIS POINT IN TIME, I CAN TELL YOU OUR BUSINESS OWNERS AND OUR HOTELIERS SAID FLAT AT THIS POINT IN TIME IS NOT OKAY, BECAUSE WE'RE STILL SEEING THE RISE IN COSTS. UM, WE'RE STILL SEEING THE, THE, THE, THE EFFECTS OF INFLATION. SO, UM, IT WILL ALWAYS BE A MOVING TARGET. AND I HEAR YOU THAT WE COULD HAVE A CONVERSATION NEXT TIME AROUND. IS THERE ANYTHING CONCRETE THAT WE CAN KIND OF ALL AGREE ON OF OCCUPANCY AT THIS RATE AT THIS TIME, VISITATION NUMBERS AT THIS TIME, WHICH IS, I DON'T THINK I'M GONNA BE ABLE TO DELIVER ON THAT QUITE HONESTLY. 'CAUSE I JUST, I JUST FEEL LIKE THAT'S SETTING MYSELF UP FOR FAILURE BECAUSE IT'S SO REACTIVE RATHER THAN PREDICTIVE. I CAN'T PREDICT HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE GONNA COME HERE. YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT THE OPINION. WE WE'RE INVESTING A LOT OF MONEY IN MAKING THIS WORK, AND I, WE NEED TO MAKE IT WORK FIRST, AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT PETE'S SAYING, BUT I DON'T THINK WE'RE THERE YET. AFTER WE'RE DOING IT FOUR OR FIVE YEARS, AND WE CAN PROVE THAT WE'RE ABLE TO DO WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND BE SUCCESSFUL, THEN WE COULD TAILOR IT TO GET THE INFORMATION THAT PETE'S LOOKING FOR. BUT WE NEED TO GAIN THE TRUST OF THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY. WE NEED TO GAIN THE TRUST OF THE HOTEL COMMUNITY TO SHOW THAT YOU CAN DO WHAT SOME OF US FELT THE CHAMBER WASN'T DOING AT THE TIME DIFFERENTLY. OKAY. SO MAYBE THAT'S A BETTER WAY OF SAYING IT, TO DO IT DIFFERENTLY. NOT TO, NOT TO NOT DO WHAT THEY DID, OR HOWEVER, I'M WILLING TO LET YOU MOVE FORWARD AND DO WHAT YOU DO TO GAIN THAT TRUST TO, TO PROVE THAT WE KNOW WHAT OR YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU'RE DOING. AND I THINK YOU DO. SO I, I JUST DON'T THINK WE'RE THERE YET, PETE. I, NOT YET. [04:45:01] I'M NOT SAYING, YOU KNOW, I, I, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, MAYOR, AND I, I TOTALLY SYMPATHIZE WITH THE DIRECTION THAT YOU'RE SET OF, BUT WHEN YOU SAY THAT, UH, GAINING THE TRUST OF THE SEGMENT YOU LEFT OUT WAS THE RESIDENCE, AND SO I UNDERSTAND THAT THEY NEED TO BE IN THAT CONVERSATION AS WELL. AND, BUT YOU KNOW, WHERE WE'RE GONNA GET THAT TRUST WHEN YOU HAVE THE MESSAGE, YOU DON'T HAVE FIVE YEARS TO GET THAT TRUST. WELL, IS WHAT I'M AFRAID OF. AND I RESPECT THAT ALSO. BUT THE MESSAGING THAT'S BEING DONE FROM DAY ONE AT THE GATE WAS MORE SUSTAINABLE MESSAGING, WHICH WASN'T DONE. THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE, IT WASN'T DONE BEFORE. AND I THINK THAT IF WE SEE LESS DEGRADATION IN THE FOREST, LESS TAGGING IN THE FOREST, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW, YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD FOR THE ORGANIZATIONS TO MEASURE THAT BECAUSE THEY GO SOMETIMES SO FAR DEEP INTO THE FOREST AND THEY FIND IT THAT WASN'T THERE A YEAR AGO. IT'S HARD TO MEASURE IT, BUT IF WE CHANGING THE MESSAGING TO DO SOMETHING THAT WASN'T DONE BEFORE, AND WE START, I JUST HOPE WE'LL GAIN THE TRUST THAT WAY. EVEN IF IT'S THREE YEARS, TWO YEARS, I THINK IT'S TOO, YOU KNOW, IT'S TOO NEW, BUT WE NEED TO PROVE OURSELVES. BRIAN, THANK YOU MAYOR. LAUREN. I THINK MAYBE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION THAT YOU SHOT TO PETE THERE, IT MIGHT BE GOOD FOR US TO LOOK AT OUR STRATEGIC PLAN DOCUMENT, RIGHT? IT'S A ONE PAGER, RIGHT? AND I'M SITTING HERE AT THE MOMENT, FUNNY ENOUGH, IT WAS EASIER FOR ME TO PULL UP THE ONE PAGER FOR VISIT ORLANDO, RIGHT? UM, AND OBVIOUSLY A VERY, UH, TOURISM DOMINATED ECONOMY, A MORE, MORE, MORE, UH, MINDSET. SO FOR THEM, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE GOT TARGETS LIKE BY THE END OF 2026, WE WILL ACHIEVE 80 MILLION VISITORS TO INCLUDE SIX AND A HALF MILLION INTERNATIONAL VISITORS WITH 40 MILLION ROOM NIGHTS GENERATED. CAN YOU IMAGINE? 40 MILLION ROOM NIGHTS, CHERYL? HOW WOULD THAT BE ANYHOW? UM, I THINK MAYBE THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION PROBABLY LIES WITHIN THAT STRATEGY DOCUMENT, AND PROBABLY WE CAN PICK OUT, UM, YOU KNOW, AN INITIATIVE OR TWO THAT ARE IN THAT DOCUMENT THAT COULD BE MEASURABLE AND WOULD BE, UH, A WAY OF SPEAKING, I THINK TO, TO COUNCILOR PETE'S, UH, QUESTION THERE. SO, MM-HMM. , DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ON THAT? YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S REALLY, REALLY HEALTHY DIALOGUE. I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE CAMPAIGN THAT WE'RE SHARING IS ONE TACTIC OF THE TOURISM PROGRAM, AND IT'S DESIGNED TO PULL CERTAIN LEVERS, WHICH IS TO, FOR THE MOST PART, ATTRACT VISITATION, BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, EDUCATE THEM AT THE SAME TIME. AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, TRULY TACTICALLY, THESE ARE OFF PEAK CAMPAIGNS, SO I DON'T HAVE A NUMBER FOR YOU, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE GOAL IS TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T FALL OUT OF THAT. THE FLOOR OF VISITATION DOESN'T FALL OUT LIKE WE SAW HAPPEN THIS SUMMER TO SOME EXTENT. SO HOW CAN WE MAKE SURE THAT WE MAINTAIN A LEVEL THAT KEEPS OUR BUSINESS COMMUNITY THRIVING DURING THOSE OFF PEAK TIMES? I THINK THAT'S ONE WAY TO LOOK AT, I THINK, THE OVERARCHING GOAL OF WHY WE'RE CHOOSING, YOU KNOW, THESE OFF PEAK TIMES. UM, I DO THINK WHAT YOU'RE BRINGING UP IS REALLY INTERESTING AND SOMETHING THAT I'D LOVE TO CONTINUE TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION AROUND, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THIS TACTIC IS DESIGNED TO BUILD AWARENESS OF SEDONA AS A DESTINATION, AND AT THE SAME TIME, SET EXPECTATIONS WITH THEM. A LOT OF, I THINK, THE IMPACTS THAT YOU'RE ALLUDING TO HAPPEN WHEN PEOPLE ARE HERE, AND IT'S THE BEHAVIOR COMPONENT. AND THAT'S ANOTHER PIECE THAT WE ARE CONTINUING TO BUILD OUT. IT'S A BIG PIECE OF THE ONE PAGER, UM, THAT WE JUST, WE JUST, YOU KNOW, TALKED ABOUT AGAIN. AND TO ME, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING IS LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, IF WE DID DO A MORE ROBUST EDUCATIONAL CAMPAIGN, WHAT ARE THE BEHAVIORS THAT WE'RE GONNA BE FOCUSED ON? UM, WE ALREADY MET WITH THE TAB ABOUT THIS TO REALLY ALIGN OURSELVES AROUND THE BEHAVIORS WE WANT TO BE AFFECTING CHANGE WITHIN. WE'VE SHARED IT WITH THE FOREST SERVICE, WE'VE SHARED IT WITH SOME OTHER GROUPS. IT'S STILL A WORK IN PROGRESS, BUT NONE OF THIS WILL BE A BIG SURPRISE FOR YOU. IT'S LIKE REDUCING PHYSICAL CONGESTION, MAKING SURE THERE'S HEAT SAFETY, UH, YOU KNOW, PROPER TRAIL ETIQUETTE WITH KIND OF NOISE. YOU COULD LOOK AT PROPER COMMUNITY ETIQUETTE, YOU KNOW, EACH OF THOSE, AND I KNOW WE CAN'T DO ALL OF THEM, BUT YOU KNOW, THAT'S LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THAT CLOSER TO WHERE YOU WANNA SEE REPORTING, RIGHT? IT'S LIKE, IS DESTINATION MANAGEMENT GOING UP OR DOWN? YOU KNOW, WE CAN MONITOR THE SUCCESS RATE OF THE CAMPAIGN GOING UP OR DOWN, BUT THERE'S A BROADER SET OF METRICS THAT TRANSCEND INDIVIDUAL TACTICS THAT REALLY COMPRISE THE GOALS AND OBJECTIVES OF THE TOURISM PROGRAM. THOSE ARE IN PROGRESS. UM, AND I DO THINK THEY WORK IN TANDEM, BUT, UM, IT'S, AGAIN, IT'S KIND OF A STEP ABOVE THE CAMPAIGN TACTIC THAT WE'RE WORKING ON. ALYSSA, KIND OF ON THE SUBJECT, KIND OF NOT ON THE SUBJECT. UM, SO FIRST OF ALL, LET'S BE REALLY CLEAR, WE CAN'T PREDICT WHERE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO STAY WHEN THEY COME AND STAY IN SEDONA. SO IF WE KEEP INCREASING THE NUMBER OF STRS WE HAVE, AND THAT'S WHERE PEOPLE WANNA STAY, THEN OUR HOTEL NUMBERS ARE NOT GONNA GO UP. UM, AND THAT'S THE WAY IT'S GONNA BE. AND WE CAN'T PREDICT THAT. WE CANNOT PREDICT WHERE PEOPLE WILL WANT TO STAY. ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THOUGH, THAT I, I THINK WOULD BE INTERESTING BECAUSE [04:50:01] YOU WANTED TO CHANGE BEHAVIOR. UM, MOST OF US KNOW, IN ORDER TO CHANGE BEHAVIOR, YOU NEED TO MAKE IT REPETITIVE, RIGHT? YOU NEED TO, IT'S, IT'S HABIT, RIGHT? YOU WANNA GET SOME KIND OF HABITUATED, UH, RESPONSE FROM PEOPLE. AND THAT IS GONNA BE REALLY HARD TO DO WHEN YOU'RE DOING A ONE AND DONE. SO EVERY TIME YOU GET SOMEBODY WHO COMES HERE, THEY COME HERE ONLY ONE TIME, AND THEN THEY LEAVE, YOU GET A GREAT ACQUISITION NUMBER, BUT YOU MAY NOT GET THAT GREAT RESPONSE NUMBER, RIGHT? UNLESS YOU CAN TARGET THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY DOING THAT TO SOMEWHERE ELSE AND THEY'RE JUST BRINGING WHAT THEY'RE ALREADY DOING WITH THEM WHEN THEY COME HERE. SO ONE IS, ARE YOU TARGETING THE RIGHT MARKET? I KNOW YOU'VE GOT SOME PERSONAS ON ANOTHER SLIDE. AND SO, YOU KNOW, HOW DO THOSE PERSONAS FIT IN? HOW DO YOU TARGET THEM? HOW ARE THEY DIFFERENT THAN THE OTHER PERSONAS THAT YOU'RE USING? AND THEN YOU ALSO MAY NEED TO LOOK AT, ARE YOU LOOKING TO DO ACQUISITION? ARE YOU LOOKING TO DO RETENTION? SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING TO DO ACQUISITION, THAT MEANS YOU'RE TRYING TO GET NEW PEOPLE TO COME, BUT THEY MIGHT BE ONE AND DONES. AND SO YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THAT NUMBER COULD BE A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THE TRAIL WHO ARE NOT GONNA BE AT ETIQUETTE WISE. THEN YOU COULD SAY, WHAT ABOUT RETENTION? ARE WE RETAINING PEOPLE? ARE THEY COMING BACK? IF THEY'RE COMING BACK, WHAT MESSAGE IS RESOUNDING WITH THEM? BECAUSE IF IT'S THE EDUCATIONAL LOVE, OUR TRAILS, THE WAY WE DO KIND OF MESSAGE, THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE RETAINING. SO THEY'RE THE ONES WHO ARE COMING BACK. SO YOUR, YOUR ADVERTISING CAMPAIGNS THAT CAN ALSO POTENTIALLY, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CAN GET YOUR NUMBERS, IT'S KIND OF ALL YOUR PROBLEM, NOT MINE, BUT CAN YOU GET THOSE NUMBERS THAT SAY PEOPLE WHO ARE RESPONDING TO THOSE EDUCATIONAL STEWARDSHIP MESSAGES, ARE THEY COMING BACK? ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE CLOSE, IF THEY'RE PHOENIX, IF THEY'RE TUCSON, IF THEY'RE LA, ARE THEY COMING BACK? AND CAN YOU GET THEM TO COME BACK AT A DIFFERENT TIME OF YEAR? THEY'RE GONNA BRING THAT RESPONSIBILITY WITH THEM. SO I THINK THAT WHEN YOU, YOU, YOU'RE NOT DONE YET, YOU'RE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO DONE YET, BUT I THINK THERE ARE NEW COMPONENTS YOU'RE ABOUT TO INTRODUCE TO US THAT, YOU KNOW, THOSE PERSONAS THAT ARE GOING TO HELP US TRY TO POTENTIALLY FIGURE OUT WHO'S COMING AND WHO DO WE WANT TO COME, AND CAN WE GET THEM TO KEEP COMING BACK AND SPENDING MONEY WITH US. ALRIGHT. YOU, YOU GOT TWO MORE SLIDES TO GO AND THEN WE'LL, UH, GO OUT FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. YEP. YOU'RE TEED UP. SURE. UH, GREAT SEGUE. UM, SO YEAH, WE DEVELOPED SOME, UH, PERSONAS THAT WE FEEL, UM, YOU KNOW, START TO PAINT A PICTURE OF, UH, THE VISITOR AND TRAVELER IN SEDONA. UM, THE ECO-CONSCIOUS EXPLORER, THE WELLNESS SEEKER, THE ADVENTURE ENTHUSIAST, AND THE CULTURAL EXPLORER. UH, WE INCLUDED THE UNINFORMED ADVENTURE HERE KNOWING THAT IT'S MAYBE NOT THE, UH, THE PINNACLE OF WHO WE WANT TO COME VISIT, BUT WE KNOW THAT THAT IS A REALITY. UM, THAT'S, THAT'S HAPPENING HERE, RIGHT? WE HAVE THESE UNINFORMED, UH, ADVENTURERS ON THE TRAILS, UM, MAKING, YOU KNOW, SILLY, UM, MOVES OUT THERE. SO I THINK THE, THE POINT HERE I THINK GETS TO, UM, WHAT, UH, COUNSELOR, UM, DUNN WAS SPEAKING TO IS WE, WE LOOK AT WHAT, WHAT DRIVES THESE DIFFERENT PERSONAS, UH, TO VISIT, UM, WHAT GOALS MIGHT THEY HAVE WITH A VISIT HERE? UM, AND WHAT ARE THEIR TRAVEL BEHAVIORS? AND THEN OBVIOUSLY WE, WE USE THAT IN OUR TARGETING DIGITALLY. WE WOULD ALSO, IF WE WERE TO PLACE, UH, MEDIA WITH A, WITH A MEDIA PARTNER, WE WOULD LOOK FOR MEDIA PARTNERS WHO HAVE AUDIENCES THAT ALIGN WITH THESE THINGS. AND THERE IS SOME CROSSOVER HERE. UM, YOU KNOW, THE ADVENTURE ENTHUSIAST AND THE ECO-CONSCIOUS EXPLORER MIGHT APPRECIATE THE SAME SORT OF, UM, CONTENT OR INFORMATION ABOUT THE OUTDOOR EXPERIENCES HERE. THE ECO-CONSCIOUS EXPLORER AND THE WELLNESS SEEKER MIGHT HAVE SOME OVERLAP IN THE TYPE OF ACCOMMODATIONS THAT THEY MIGHT, UM, BE INTERESTED IN. SO WE ARE ADDING LAYERS OF COMPLEXITY TO THE TARGETING, UM, IN ORDER TO, TO ACHIEVE A REALLY A VALUES ALIGNED VISITOR. UM, AND SPEAKING TO PAST, UH, VISITORS, THAT'S A HUGE COMPONENT OF, UM, WHAT WE'RE ABLE TO GET THROUGH, UH, THE PARTNERSHIP WITH DATA FI. UH, UNDERSTANDING THE USERS THAT HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE AND BUILDING PROFILES OFF OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HERE, UM, AND EXHIBIT THE TYPE OF BEHAVIOR THAT WE WANT THEM TO, TO EXHIBIT, UH, IN THOSE CASES, YOU KNOW, OVERNIGHT STAYS, THOSE ARE THE, THOSE ARE THE VISITORS THAT WE WANT, UM, PEOPLE WHO, UH, ARE GOING TO LOCAL BUSINESSES AND SUPPORTING LOCAL BUSINESSES AND SHOPS. [04:55:01] THOSE ARE THE TYPE OF VISITORS THAT WE WANT. SO WE LAYER THAT INTO THE TARGETING, UM, AT LEAST ON THE, ON THE PROGRAMMATIC SIDE. UM, AND WE'RE ABLE TO DO THAT ON THE META SIDE AS WELL, JUST NOT QUITE TO THE SAME DEGREE. UM, SO WE WE'RE TAKING A LOT OF WHAT WE'RE LEARNING, APPLYING THAT TO THE NEXT ROUND, REEVALUATING, UM, THE, THE AUDIENCES AND THE INTERESTS THAT ARE, UH, THAT ARE LAYERED ON TOP OF THAT. UM, AND, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THE, THE MARKETS, UH, ARE ALWAYS A CONVERSATION. I, I WILL SAY TOO, I THINK, UM, AS WE GET A MORE DEFINED BRAND AND, UM, WE REALLY BUILD OFF OF THAT, UM, THAT IS SO CRITICAL IN ESTABLISHING THE EXPECTATION, UM, FOR THE VISITOR, UM, REALLY MAKING, UM, THE, THE VALUES OF SEDONA AND THE COMMUNITY KIND OF THE FOREFRONT OF THE MESSAGING AND BEING CONSISTENT WITH IT. RIGHT? WE'VE, UM, WE'VE DONE TWO, ONE WAS A BRIDGE CAMPAIGN, WHICH WAS THE SUMMER CAMPAIGN, AND THE WINTER CAMPAIGN LAST YEAR WAS A MINI CAMPAIGN. SO WE REALLY HAVEN'T, UM, DONE ANYTHING COHESIVE. UM, THAT WAS PARTLY HOW, HOW THIS ALL KIND OF SHOOK OUT WAS WE STILL NEED TO KIND OF KEEP THE LIGHTS ON. WE WANT TO SUPPORT THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, WE WANT TO SUPPORT THE SUPPORT THE HOTELIERS WHILE WE WERE GOING THROUGH THE BRANDING PROCESS, UM, AND ESTABLISHING A, A, A CONCRETE CAMPAIGN TO GO FORWARD. SO NOW I THINK WE'RE AT THAT POINT WHERE THE, THE BRAND IS NEARLY FINAL. UM, AND TO COUNCILMAN PETE'S QUESTION ABOUT GOALS, WE HAVE A 15 PAGE MARKETING STRATEGY THAT WITHIN THAT THERE ARE HIGH LEVEL GOALS, UM, THAT WE STILL NEED TO FLESH OUT, UM, THAT ARE RELATED TO ECONOMIC IMPACT. WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT TOURISM IS A, UM, IS, IS A, IS A VALUABLE, UM, INDUSTRY FOR LOCAL BUSINESSES AND IS ABLE TO SUPPORT PEOPLE LIVING HERE, HAVING BUSINESSES HERE YEAR ROUND. WE WANT TO ENSURE THAT IT'S, UH, RETURNING IN INVESTMENT, UH, WHAT THAT, WHAT THAT NUMBER IS, IS WE STILL NEED TO WORK THAT OUT. BUT WE ARE LOOKING AT SOME HIGH LEVEL GOALS FROM MARKETING TO ACHIEVE THAT IS BEYOND JUST THE CAMPAIGN METRICS. UM, BUT BECAUSE WE'RE SORT OF FLYING THE PLANE AS WE'RE BUILDING IT, UH, WE'RE NOT QUITE THERE WITH SOME OF THOSE HIGH LEVEL GOALS YET, BECAUSE THAT'S SORT OF SOME OF THE SAUCE THAT'S STILL BEING, UM, STIRRED AROUND IN THE BACK. HOLLY, WE HAD A PRESENTATION A FEW MONTHS AGO FROM A ARTS, UH, IMPACT STUDY THAT WAS DONE, AND IT SHOWED A VERY HIGH RATE OF RETURN. AND I DON'T, IS THAT IN THE CULTURAL EXPLORER? I MEAN, WHERE IS THE FOCUS ON THE ARTS? YEAH. YES. CULTURAL EXPLORER IS WHERE WE SEE, AND I THINK THE WELLNESS SEEKER TOO. I THINK THERE'S SOME OVERLAP THERE WITH SOME OF THESE AUDIENCES. UM, AND I THINK EVEN THE ECO-CONSCIOUS EXPLORER, RIGHT? IF YOU THINK ABOUT, UM, IN THE INDIGENOUS CULTURES AND LIKE, YOU CAN'T REMOVE THAT FROM AN ECO-CONSCIOUS CONVERSATION. SO I THINK THERE IS LOTS OF, UH, OPPORTUNITY TO, UM, INCORPORATE THE ARTS. MY OTHER QUESTION WAS, I'M CURIOUS WHY WE'RE NOT TARGETING CANADA SINCE WE HAD SO MANY CANADIAN VISITORS HERE AND THEY STAY FOR A LONG TIME AND THE WINTER. WHY ARE THEY ABSENT FROM OUR MARKET? DO YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ON THAT? TYPICALLY, WE'RE RUNNING DOMESTIC CAMPAIGNS, AND THAT'S KIND OF THE SCOPE OF WHAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE DOING WITH, WITH DVA. UM, I STILL WORK WITH A OT ON THE CANADIAN MARKET. I DID HOST A CANADIAN JOURNALIST, OR WE, WE HOSTED A CANADIAN JOURNALIST FROM MONTREAL TWO WEEKS AGO. I HAD DINNER WITH THEM, TOOK 'EM STARGAZING. THEY SAW SATURN FOR THE FIRST TIME, I THINK. UM, SO OUR WORK WITH THE INTERNATIONAL MARKETS ARE PRIMARILY DONE WITH A OT AND A LOT OF THAT IS DONE BECAUSE OF THE COOPERATIVE MARKETING THAT COMES FROM BRAND USA AND THE ARIZONA OFFICE OF TOURISM. SO WE GET A LOT MORE BANG FOR OUR BUCK WHEN WE PARTNER WITH THE LARGER SIZED RUSSIAN NESTING DOLLS. SO WHEN WE DO OUR OWN DOMESTIC CAMPAIGNS, YOU KNOW, WE CAN FLY WITH OUR OWN WINGS, BUT INTERNATIONAL, AND WE NEED A LITTLE BOOST BY OUR LARGER NEIGHBORS THAT ARE ABOVE US. SO I KNOW WE WENT TO, UH, HEATHER WHEN SHE WAS HERE, WENT TO GERMANY OR SOMEWHERE IN EUROPE. WE HAD NEVER SEEN ANYTHING IN, IN, IN AN UPDATE IN THE FUTURE. I'D BE INTERESTED IN KNOWING IF THAT HAD ANY VALUE. YEP. YEAH, WE, UM, [05:00:01] WE DID GET AN ARTICLE, I THINK IT WAS CALLED THE AMERICAN JOURNAL. IT'S A GERMAN GERMAN PUBLICATION. I THINK THAT WAS LOOSELY TIED TO MM-HMM. TIED TO HEATHER'S TRIP. UM, A LOT OF THAT IS FOCUSED ON, UH, IT'S SIMILAR TO STUFF I'M DOING JUST AS A SIDE THAT I'M GOING TO NTA TRAVEL EXCHANGE NEXT WEEK IN ALABAMA, WHICH IS A DOMESTIC COACH SHOW, BUT IT'S SIMILAR IN CONCEPT TO SOME OF THE SALES AND MEDIA MISSIONS THAT HEATHER ATTENDED IN GERMANY. YOU KNOW, WE'RE MEETING WITH TRAVEL AGENTS THAT SELL PACKAGES TO DIFFERENT PLACES. YOU KNOW, MY JOB IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY KNOW THAT SEDONA IS A PLACE THAT THEY CAN SELL A PACKAGE TO IF THEIR OPERATION FITS OUR VALUES, OBVIOUSLY, AND IT BECOMES PRODUCT ON A SHELF. UM, I CAN'T GUARANTEE IF IT'S ON THE SHELF, PEOPLE BUY IT, BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SORT OF THE, THE OUTPUT THAT WE WORK TOWARDS. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, I'M THE ONE DOING THOSE NOW. I'M ACTUALLY GONNA GO TO A UK AND FRANCE MEDIA AND SALES MISSION IN MARCH. SO THAT'S THE ONE THAT AOT SERVED UP THIS YEAR. UM, AND, YOU KNOW, I'LL HAVE A MUCH MORE DIRECT CONTROL OVER THE REPORTING, BUT, UM, A LOT OF IT COMES INTO DID PRODUCT GET PUT ON THE SHELF, IE OUR PACKAGES BEING SOLD BY THOSE OPERATORS. THAT'S REALLY THE LARGE RETURN. AND THEN BECAUSE IT'S A MEDIA MISSION, THINGS LIKE THE AMERICAN JOURNAL ARTICLE WOULD BE AN OUTPUT TO GREAT. THANK YOU. OKAY. UH, WE GOOD? OH, BRIAN, UH, PETE. THANK YOU, MAYOR. THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE OTHER ONE. YOU KNOW, I LIKE YOUR IDEAL PROFILES AND I, I KNOW THAT SOMETIMES I NEED SOME NEW GLASSES, BUT ALSO THINKING ABOUT, YESTERDAY WAS VETERANS DAY AND I LIKED THE FACT THAT WE HAVE THE UNIFORM ADVENTURE ON THERE, BUT YOU DID TALK ABOUT THE UNINFORMED ADVENTURE, SO MAYBE THERE'S AN EXTRA ONE WE GET TO ADD . OKAY. UH, YOU LET, I'LL FEEL YOUR LESS OF ALL THE COMMENTS. THAT'S THE ONE THAT I'M GONNA THINK ABOUT TONIGHT, , BECAUSE JUST TOUCHES MY CORE AS A FORMER JOURNALIST, . OKAY. UM, SO FOR OUR DISCUSSION, DO YOU APPROVE THE REDEFINED DESERT CAMPAIGN AS A CONCEPT? YES, I DO. OKAY. I DO. OKAY, WE'RE GOOD. OF COURSE. THE BOARD. OKAY. UM, AND DO YOU APPROVE THE AD STRATEGY FOR THE WINTER CAMPAIGN? YES. UGH, THAT WAS EASY. IF WE COULD HAVE HAD THAT AN HOUR AGO, IT WOULD'VE BEEN EASIER. UM, OKAY. UM, SO NOW WE HAVE THE NEXT ITEM. WE'LL BE READY TO MOVE ON THE NEXT ITEM. NO, WE, WE CAN'T DO THAT YET. WE HAVE TO GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT. OH, RIGHT. SORRY. WE HAVE TO, UH, OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. DO WE HAVE ANY COURTS? NO, WE HAVE NO PUBLIC COMMENT. DO WE HAVE A PUBLIC COMMENT CARD? OH, I'M SORRY. I DIDN'T SEE IT. OKAY, THEN CAN YOU STEP UP, UH, CHERYL AND JUST, UH, JUST GIVE JOAN A SECOND TO START THE, UH, CLOCK AND, UH, YOU KNOW THE DRILL. THANK YOU. SORRY. HI, MY NAME IS CHERYL BARON. I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE LODGING COUNCIL AND I'M A RESIDENT OF SEDONA. THAT IT PERFECT. OKAY. I JUST WANTED TO TOUCH ON A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT WERE MENTIONED TONIGHT, AND I'LL BE VERY BRIEF. SO, UH, THE THING WITH BOTTOM LINE AT THE HOTELS, THEY'RE CALLED CONTROLLABLES. CONTROLLABLES COME IN THE FORM OF FOOD COSTS, LABOR, UTILITIES, GUEST SUPPLIES, UM, AND THAT DETERMINES PROFITABILITY AT THE HOTELS. SO IN THE PAST YEAR, BASED ON CONVERSATIONS THAT I'VE HAD WITH THE OTHER HOTELIERS, WE'VE HAD A 43% INCREASE IN FOOD COST. 12 TO 20% INCREASE IN LABOR, 14% INCREASE IN UTILITIES, 28% INCREASE IN GUEST SUPPLIES. THAT'S YOUR LINENS, YOUR SOAP, SHAMPOO, THE THINGS YOU PUT IN A, EXCUSE ME, PUT IN A GUEST ROOM. I JUST HEARD TODAY THAT IN INSURANCE IS GONNA INCREASE IN 2025, UP TO 40%, JESUS CHRIST. THAT'S GONNA HURT, THAT'S GONNA HURT THE EMPLOYEES. SO WHILE LABOR IS UP, ALL THAT LABOR, EXTRA LABOR IS GONNA GO TO PAY INSURANCE. UM, SO THAT'S JUST SOME BOTTOM LINE INFORMATION. PETE, YOU TALKED ABOUT, UM, HOW DID, HOW DO YOU DECIDE HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH? I DON'T KNOW THAT IN MY WORLD OR IN THE HOTEL WORLD, WE'RE THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE MAGIC NUMBER OF VISITORS THAT COME TO SEDONA TO MAKE THIS AREA SUCCESSFUL? I THINK WHAT DETERMINES THAT IN OUR WORLD IS, ARE WE GETTING THE RIGHT GUEST? SO IN THE PAST WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT BRINGING IN THE RIGHT GUEST AT THE RIGHT TIME FOR THE RIGHT TYPE OF BUSINESS. AND THAT LOOKS LIKE, UM, A GUEST THAT'S GONNA STAY MORE THAN 1.7 NIGHTS. SO WHEN [05:05:01] WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A MARKETING CAMPAIGN, CAN WE LOOK AT BEING DIRECT AND SPECIFIC AND GETTING LONGER STAYS? WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HAVING A WORLD CLASS DESTINATION, WE HAVE WORLD CLASS HOTELS, WORLD CLASS RESTAURANTS. WE DON'T HAVE WORLD CLASS AIRBNBS YET. AIRBNBS TRUMP THE HOTELS IN ROOMS NOW, BUT THEY'RE NOT WHAT MAKE THIS WORLD CLASS DESTINATION. SO, UM, IN OUR MARKETING, AND I WANNA COMMEND THIS TEAM BECAUSE THEY ARE REESTABLISHING A BRIDGE, UH, BETWEEN THE BUSINESSES, THOSE TOURISM BUSINESSES, AND THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE LODGING, UM, UH, FEEDBACK. AND WE'RE COMMUNICATING AGAIN. SORRY. DONE. FINISH YOUR, FINISH YOUR THOUGHT. YEAH. SO I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT WE, WE HAVE THIS OPEN COMMUNICATION AND WE'RE WORKING TOGETHER. AND THE MESSAGE OF SUSTAINABILITY AND HOW A GUEST SHOULD ACT WHEN THEY'RE HERE. YEAH, WE GET THAT. WE WANT THAT, BUT THAT'S NOT BRINGING ROI TO THE BUSINESSES. WHAT IS BRINGING ROI IS A WELCOMING MESSAGE. AND I THINK WITH WHAT THEY'VE DONE HERE, WE HAVE A LITTLE OF BOTH. AND, AND I THINK IF WE CAN MOVE FORWARD, IF HAVE A BALANCE, IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT WE HAVE TO HAVE ONE OR THE OTHER. WE NEED TO, WE NEED TO COME TOGETHER AND AGREE ON BOTH. AND I THINK WE'VE DONE THAT. AND ABOUT YOUR GERMAN COME, UH, COMMENT. 30% OF MY PARTICULAR BUSINESS IS INTERNATIONAL. AND MY GERMAN, I HAD SO MANY GERMAN VISITORS, IT WAS AWESOME. 'CAUSE I'M GERMAN . WE HAD GREAT STORIES TO TELL, SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. SHE OKAY, WE'RE GONNA CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, BRING IT BACK TO, UH, COUNCIL, YOU, YOU HAVE ANY FINAL COMMENTS, BRIEF FINAL COMMENTS THAT HAVE HAVEN'T ALREADY BEEN SHARED. BRIEF CO FINAL COMMENTS, UM, BE BRIEF, BRIEF BE BRIEF. YEAH. BRIEF. UH, FIRST OFF, UH, ANDREW, I WAS ON ZOOM THIS MORNING FOR THE LODGING COUNCIL MEETING, AND I THOUGHT YOU DID A REALLY NICE JOB OF PRESENTING TO THE LODGING COUNCIL AND APPRECIATED THE DEGREE OF ENGAGEMENT THAT YOU HAD AND THE FACT THAT YOU WERE ASKING INFOR, YOU KNOW, SIGNIFICANT INPUT FROM THE MEMBERS OF THE LODGING COUNCIL. SO I THOUGHT THAT WAS REALLY GREAT. AND THEN, UM, YOU KNOW, ANDREW, LAUREN, YOU, YOU'VE, YOU'VE GOT MY TRUST ON THE ADVERTISING. I APPRECIATE THE METRICS THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE PUT UP, UH, THE LEVEL OF ROAS, BOTH AT A MARKET LEVEL AND A SALES TAX RETURN LEVEL ARE SIGNIFICANT. AND EVEN IF I WANT TO SIT THERE AND GO, EH, I THINK THAT'S TOO ROSY BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST USING GENERIC NUMBERS FOR A DR AND AVERAGE DAILY SPEND. LIKE, I MEAN, I COULD CUT THOSE BY 40% AND WOULD STILL SAY THAT IT'S AN ACCEPTABLE ROAS. SO THAT GIVES ME COMFORT THAT WE'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK. UM, THE LAST THING I'D JUST WANNA SAY IS IN REGARDS TO THE LOGO, 'CAUSE I HAD A THOUGHT ABOUT THIS. YOU ALL, DVA, YOU ALL DEVELOPED THE, THE BRAND STATEMENT, RIGHT? THAT REALLY LONG STATEMENT THAT LEFT SOME OF US IN TEARS MYSELF, PART OF THAT, RIGHT? I WANT TO, I, I WANT TO FEEL A CONNECTION OF THE, THE LOGO WITH THAT. AND I FEEL NONE WHATSOEVER. IT'S DEAD TO ME. THERE'S A, JUST A TOTAL BREAK IN BETWEEN THOSE TWO. SO MAYBE THAT HELPS A LITTLE BIT TO FURTHER EXPLAIN WHY I'M VOTED OFF THE ISLAND ON THIS. BUT I JUST WANTED TO TRY TO SHARE THAT. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND CHERYL, THANK YOU FOR YOUR, UH, COMMENTS JUST NOW, BECAUSE I WAS GONNA ASK WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS WERE ABOUT THE CAMPAIGN. SO THANKS FOR GETTING UP THERE. OKAY. UH, THIS DISCUSSION ONLY YOU HAVE A DIRECTION THAT YOU NEED. I DO. OKAY. SO NEXT UP, I I WOULD JUST LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT BE GO AHEAD. ADVICE MAAM. I, I THINK THAT IN THE NEXT PHASE IT WOULD BE REALLY GOOD TO, I WAS THINKING OF WHAT PETE WAS SAYING BEFORE, AND CHERYL, YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH, IT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING TO KNOW, 'CAUSE ONE OF YOUR LEADERS, AND I HAD A CONVERSATION A FEW WEEKS AGO AND HE SAID, I'LL TELL YOU, MY REVENUE IS UP X PERCENT, MY COSTS ARE UP Y PERCENT. THEY'RE JUST NOT, YOU KNOW, MATCH. I'VE HAD BEST YEAR I'VE EVER HAD, BUT I'M LOSING MONEY 'CAUSE OF THE COST FACTOR. SO I THINK YOU COULD HELP US, WE COULD ALL HAVE [05:10:01] THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW, HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH IF WE KNEW OPENLY AS A GROUP, NOT INDIVIDUALLY, BUT AS A GROUP, WHAT DO YOU NEED? WHAT DO YOU NEED TO BE SUCCESSFUL AND CAN WE LIVE WITH IT? MM-HMM. , YOU KNOW, IS IT IF WE'RE AT 65 OR 66 AND IT'S NOT ENOUGH, WHAT IS ENOUGH FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW? AND THAT WOULD BE REALLY GOOD WAY TO START LOOKING AT MEASUREMENTS. HOW ARE WE ACHIEVING THOSE GOALS? AND, YOU KNOW, CAN OUR, CAN OUR RESIDENTS AND CAN OUR, CAN WE HANDLE THAT? YOU KNOW, CAN OUR INFRASTRUCTURE HANDLE THAT? BUT WE HAVE TO START WITH SOMETHING THAT, THAT'S A TARGET OF WHERE WE WANNA GO. AND PLUS I WOULD LIKE TO GET THE RETAIL PEOPLE AND THE RESTAURATEURS INVOLVED AS WELL. MM-HMM. BECAUSE THEY MAY BENEFIT, YOU KNOW, FROM DAY THE, THE, OUR AWARD FOR BEST DAY PLACE TO GO TO. BUT THEY COULD BENEFIT FROM THAT WHERE THE HOTELS ARE NOT BENEFITING FROM THAT. SO IT'D BE GOOD TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENT BUSINESS PERSPECTIVES. I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT AT SOME POINT. CHERYL, CAN YOU COME UP TO THE MIC? I HAVE A QUESTION TO ASK YOU. I HAD A DISCUSSION WITH, I BELIEVE, AND I DON'T KNOW, WE DIDN'T DISCUSS THIS, BUT WITH THE SAME INDIVIDUAL FROM YOUR BOARD, I JUST ASSUME IT'S THE SAME PERSON. IS THAT EVEN REALISTIC THAT, I MEAN, IT'S SORT OF LIKE, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR, YOUR SALES TAX IS BECAUSE WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO KNOW THAT INDIVIDUAL INFORMATION, IT'S PROPRIETARY INFORMATION. I WOULD TEND TO THINK THAT THE HOTELS OR ANY BUSINESS WOULD NOT WANNA SHARE THAT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT THEIR COMPETITION TO KNOW HOW GOOD OR BAD OR DIFFERENT THEIR BUSINESS IS. DO YOU THINK IT'S, I MEAN, THAT IT WOULD BE GREAT, AND I SAID THERE'S SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THE SAME INDIVIDUAL WHO I BELIEVE IT IS THAT WE SHOULD TRY TO WORK TOWARD THAT. AND EVEN IF IT'S IN A CLOSED DOOR WITH ANDREW OR WHOEVER TO HELP US DO THE RIGHT THING BY, BY THE LODGING COUNSEL, I'M NOT SURE THAT I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION. YOU WANT ME TO PROVIDE SALES TAX INFORMATION? I'M ALREADY NO, NO, NO. NOT WE, WE WOULDN'T GET ALREADY HAVE THAT. WHEN IS ENOUGH, ENOUGH. WHAT DO YOU FEEL TO, TO BRIDGE THAT GAP? LIKE, LIKE HOLLY SAID. WELL, AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT TO BE OPEN TO SHARING THAT INFORMATION, ANYTHING IN REGARDS TO REVENUES AND RATES BY LAW, WE CANNOT SHARE THAT INFORMATION WITHIN OURSELVES BECAUSE THAT'S CONSIDERED PRICE FIXING. RIGHT. AND SO, UM, IT'S A REALLY THIN LINE AND WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL. UM, WE ARE HAVING CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHAT INFORMATION THE HOTELS WOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE PROVIDING, BUT THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PROVIDE IT TO ME. THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO IT IN AN INDEPENDENT, WITH AN INDEPENDENT SOURCE WHO WOULD GATHER ALL THE INFORMATION AND, AND NOT GIVE YOU INDIVIDUAL HOTELS. BUT TO GIVE YOU MORE OF AN OVERVIEW, RIGHT. IT'S A TOUCHY SUBJECT FOR SURE. RIGHT? EVERYBODY'S, IT'S LIKE A GUARDED THING. NOBODY WANTS ANYONE TO KNOW HOW MUCH THEY MAKE. RIGHT? THE THING THAT, UM, IS RATHER MORE IMPORTANT IS THEIR FLOW THROUGH, AND ANDREW AND I HAVE TALKED TO THIS FLOW THROUGH, IS YOU HAVE YOUR TOP LINE REVENUE AND AFTER ALL OF YOUR EXPENSES ARE TAKEN OUT OF THERE, ALL YOUR CONTROLLABLES AND YOUR UNCONTROLLABLES, AFTER ALL THAT'S GONE, THAT'S YOUR FLOW THROUGH, THAT'S YOUR HOUSE PROFIT. AND THAT'S WHAT'S DWINDLING AWAY. AND EVEN IN YOUR RESTAURANTS, YOU'RE SEEING THESE LITTLE CHARGES CALLED, I'LL SAY A DESTINATION FEE OR CREDIT CARD CARD, CREDIT CARD FEE. AND, WELL, NOT EVEN A CREDIT CARD FEE. I WENT, I ATE AT, UH, ONE OF THE UPTOWN RESTAURANTS OVER HALLOWEEN AND THEY HAD A FEE ON THERE. AND THAT FEE PAYS FOR THE INSURANCE OF THE EMPLOYEES OR HELPS FUND THE INSURANCE PROGRAM FOR THE EMPLOYEES. SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S ON THEIR WEBSITE. I DIDN'T BOTHER TO CHECK, BUT THERE'S LITTLE FEES THAT ARE TAKING PLACE TO HELP OFFSET SOME OF THOSE COSTS THAT THE, THE OPERATORS ARE, ARE WORKING WITH. BUT ANYWAY, AS FAR AS THE HOTELS GO, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE AN OUTSIDE SOURCE THAT GATHERS. UM, AND RIGHT NOW I'M TRYING TO GET INFORMATION ON THE BID ON OUR FIRST CAMPAIGN, THE ROI FOR THE BID. AND IT'S LIKE, IT'S TOUGH. WELL, LET ME ASK YOU THIS, WOULD IT BE OKAY WHEN YOU SAID AN OUTSIDE PERSON, ANDREW, ANNETTE, SOMEBODY IN THE CITY THAT MM-HMM. YEAH. WE'D PROBABLY HAVE TO HIRE LIKE A RESEARCH FIRM FOR YES. YEAH, WE'D HAVE TO. I'M JUST TRYING TO YEAH. BRIDGE THAT GAP BECAUSE I THINK IT WOULD, IT WOULD HELP. AND SO EVEN IF WE DIDN'T KNOW, RIGHT? MM-HMM. AND, BUT SOMEBODY HERE KNEW AND COULD HELP [05:15:01] GUIDE. YEAH. AS LONG AS WE HIRE AN OUTSIDE SOURCE, NOT THE CITY, NOT THE LODGING COUNCIL. OKAY. UH, NOT THE CHAMBER. AND, UM, SEE IF THAT WOULD WORK. AND OBVIOUSLY I HAVE TO ASK THE, THE LODGING PARTNERS AND SEE IF THEY'D EVEN BE INTERESTED IN DOING THAT. I THINK THE GMS WOULD, BUT I THINK THE OWNERSHIPS ARE RIGHT WHERE THE ISSUE IS, SO. OKAY. WELL THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SHARING THAT. OKAY. LET'S GO ON TO THE LAST ITEM, ITEM [8.f. AB 3147 Discussion/possible action regarding approval of a contract amendment for Day Vengley & Associates dba DVA to extend the term, amend the scope, and increase compensation in an amount not-to-exceed $516,000 for marketing services. ] F AB 31 47, DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING APPROVAL OF A CONTRACT, UH, AMENDMENT FOR DAY VENGE LEY, VEN LEY. YEAH. THANK YOU. AND ASSOCIATES. D-B-A-D-V-A TO EXTEND THE TERM AMEND SCOPE AND INCREASE COMPENSATION IN THE AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED 500 AND, UH, 16,000 FOR MARKETING SERVICES. WHO COULD THAT BE? GO FOR IT. OKAY. LOOK ALIVE. UM, ALRIGHT, SO THIS IS THE CONTRACT. UM, A LOT OF THAT OF, OF WHAT IS IN HERE IS WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT IN THE WINTER MARKETING CAMPAIGN, BUT IT WOULD ALSO SPAN, UM, THE SUMMER CAMPAIGN COMING UP AND THE ALWAYS ON ADVERTISING. UM, WE'RE A BIT, UH, I DON'T WANNA SAY UNUSUAL, BUT FOR MY OWN ACCOUNTING, UM, IT CAN GET A LITTLE, UM, SCRAMBLED BECAUSE WE STRADDLE THAT THAT SUMMER CAMPAIGN STRADDLES, UM, TWO FISCAL YEARS. SO WHEN I'M TRYING TO BUDGET FOR, YOU KNOW, TWO CAMPAIGNS, ONE THAT IS GONNA GO INTO ANOTHER, UM, IT GETS A LITTLE, UM, HAIRY. BUT THAT'S WHY I ACTUALLY LIKE THE FACT THAT THIS IS A ONE YEAR CONTRACT STARTING NOW AND IT WILL CARRY ME, UM, THROUGH, UM, UNTIL NEXT TIME THIS YEAR, NEXT YEAR, THIS TIME IT'S REALLY LATE. UM, SO 10 15 , UH, THE BREAKDOWN OF THE 516,000 IN THE CONTRACT IS 350,000 FOR ADVERTISING. UM, THE 6% COMMISSION RATE ON THE, UM, THE, WHAT THEY CALL AN AD PLACEMENT FEE IS WRAPPED INTO THAT. IT IS NOT ON TOP OF THAT. UM, IT'S $61,000 IN PHOTOGRAPHY AND VIDEO ASSETS. THAT'S A PASS THROUGH. UM, AND $6,000 IN TRAVEL EXPENSES, THAT'S A PASS THROUGH. SO I WAS TRYING TO KIND OF, UM, UH, COUNSELOR FOLTZ ASKED ME AHEAD OF TIME, UM, HELP ME UNDERSTAND THE LABOR COSTS VERSUS THE, EITHER THE PASS THROUGH WHERE THE DIRECT ADVERTISING COSTS. SO, UM, THAT'S WHY I HAVEN'T BROKE IT DOWN THIS WAY. AND THEN THE $55,000 IN LABOR COSTS. UM, NOPE, THIS IS AN OLD SLIDE. YEP. WE'VE BEEN OVER THIS . UM, DID IT NOT SAVE IN THERE? I IT MUST NOT HAVE. OKAY, I'M JUST GONNA DO THIS ON THE FLY BECAUSE I REMEMBER. YEAH. IS THE AGENDA BILL NOT CORRECT. 516, UH, NO. THE AGENDA BILL IS CORRECT. OKAY. UM, THIS WAS TAKING OUT, IT WAS, IT WAS STRUCTURING IT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY THAN THE WAY THAT IT'S LISTED IN THE, IN THE, UM, SCOPE OF WORK AND THE AGENDA BILL. OKAY GUYS, ARE YOU CHECKING ME ON THIS? THAT WORKS, RIGHT? YES. OKAY. , LET'S GO OVER THIS AGAIN. $350,000 IN ADVERTISING DOES NOT INCLUDE THE SIX OR IT, IT DOES INCLUDE THE 6% COMMISSION IN THERE, 60,000 IN PHOTOGRAPHY SLASH VIDEO ASSETS AS A PASS THROUGH 6,000 IN TRAVEL EXPENSES AS A PASS THROUGH AND A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS IN LABOR COSTS. THAT'S ACCOUNT MANAGEMENT, ADVERTISING, PLANNING, AD CREATION. WE DO A LOT OF OUR AD CREATION IN HOUSE. JAMES DOES A LOT OF THAT, BUT DVA HELPS WITH THE, UM, UH, VIDEO AD CREATION. OKAY. WHAT QUESTIONS DO YOU HAVE? ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE DAYS? OKAY. SEEING NONE, WE'LL OPEN FOR PUBLIC HEARING. ANY CARDS? NO MA'AM. NO PUBLIC COMMENT. OKAY. WE'RE GONNA, WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. ANY FINAL COMMENTS BEFORE? OKAY. CAN I HAVE A MOTION? NO, I DO NOT COMMENT. OH, OKAY. I SUPPORT THIS, BUT THE PHOTOGRAPHY VIDEO ASSETS PASS THROUGH COST JUST SEEMS HIGH TO ME FROM PERSONAL BUSINESS EXPERIENCE. THAT JUST SEEMS HIGH. I DON'T BEGRUDGE DVA GETTING PAID FOR THEIR WORK AND MM-HMM. SPENDING THE MONEY ON THE ADVERTISING ITSELF, BUT THAT JUST SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY BIG NUMBER FOR PHOTOGRAPHY AND VIDEO ASSETS. AND MAYBE I DON'T APPRECIATE THE DEGREE OF WORK THAT'S INVOLVED, BUT IT JUST SEEMS RICH. THAT'S MY ONLY COMMENT. [05:20:01] YEAH. AND I'LL STILL SUPPORT THIS. OKAY. I HAD ABOUT 75,000 IN MY, UM, BUDGET FOR THIS YEAR, AND A LOT OF OUR COSTS, UM, THAT WERE INCURRING ARE BECAUSE WE HAD LITTLE TO NONE, UM, IN TERMS OF VIDEO AND, UM, PHOTOGRAPHY. SO WE'VE BEEN KIND OF SCRAMBLING TO PUT TOGETHER AS MANY ASSETS AS WE CAN SO THAT WE ARE NOT, UM, YOU KNOW, EITHER USING, UM, IMAGES THAT WE CAN BUY THAT ANYBODY ELSE CAN BUY OR, UM, YOU KNOW, SUBPAR IMAGERY. SO THAT, THAT IS THE INTENTION IS TO FRONT LOAD THIS COST FOR THIS YEAR SO THAT WE CAN USE THESE FOR MANY, MANY YEARS TO COME. AND I THINK ONE OTHER COMMENT WITH THAT TOO IS THAT, UM, THE ASSETS THAT WE ARE BUYING WE'RE LICENSING FOR PERPETUAL USE THAT COULD BE SHARED WITH PARTNERS. SO THAT MIGHT BE ANOTHER REASON WHY THE COST IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU MIGHT BE USED TO. I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S HOW YOU'VE BEEN BUYING ASSETS, BUT, OKAY. WELL, THIS WOULD GO DOWN DRAMATICALLY, RIGHT? IN THE FUTURE YEARS. THE COST FOR PHOTOGRAPHY. YES. OKAY. CAN I HAVE A MOTION? I'LL DO THAT. I MOVE TO APPROVE AMENDMENT NUMBER TWO TO THE PROFESSIONAL SERVICES AGREEMENT WITH DAVE LEY AND ASSOCIATES, D-B-A-D-V-A TO EXTEND THE TERM, AMEND THE SCOPE AND INCREASE COMPENSATION IN AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $516,000 FOR MARKETING SERVICES. SECOND. OKAY. ANY DISCUSSION? I, I ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. ALRIGHT, [8.g. AB 3066 Discussion/possible action regarding future meeting/agenda items. ] ITEM G, AB 30 66, DISCUSSION POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING FUTURE MEETING AND AGENDA ITEMS. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING? I HAVE A, YES, I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT, OKAY. OKAY. UM, ANNETTE, UH, ON OUR PENDING ITEMS IS AB 3 1 1 1, WHICH IS A DISCUSSION POSSIBLE ACTUALLY REGARDING THE EXTREME WEATHER OVERNIGHT LODGING PROGRAM TO SHELTER ROUGH SLEEPERS DURING INCLEMENT OR EXTREME WEATHER CONDITIONS. MY QUESTION IS, IT'S A PENDING ITEM, BUT WE ARE ALREADY IN COLD WEATHER. SO HOW FAR OFF IS PENDING IS THIS, OR WHEN IS, WILL IT BE APPROPRIATE TO HAVE THIS DISCUSSION? WELL, I THINK, UM, YOU CAN TOUCH ON IT AT THE NEXT MEETING ON THE 26TH WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE HOMELESS, UH, NEEDS ASSESSMENT. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH I'M ALLOWED TO REALLY GO INTO THE TOPIC. NO. OKAY. NOT AT ALL. BUT YOU CAN ADD THIS ITEM INTO THAT DISCUSSION. UH, NO, WE CAN TALK ABOUT AT THAT DISCUSSION. JEANNIE CAN GIVE YOU AN UPDATE AS TO WHY THIS IS ON THE PENDING LIST. OKAY. I, I'M NOT SURE I CAN, THAT'S IT. OKAY. IT'S NOT AGENDA TO TALK ABOUT THE PROGRAM. CORRECT. THANK YOU. YEAH, BUT WE'LL TALK ABOUT ON THE 20. ANY OTHER AGENDA ITEMS? HEARING NONE. WE HAVE A MEETING TOMORROW, RIGHT HERE. TWO O'CLOCK. SEE YOU THEN WE HAVE AN SESSION. MAYOR, WE HAVE AN EXEC SESSION WE'RE GOING INTO OR YOU, WE NEED TO, WE HAVE ANOTHER ITEM. OKAY. CORRECT. I'M SORRY. OKAY. IT SHOULD BE SHORT. OKAY. WE HAVE AN EXEC SESSION NOW. WELL, WE NEED A MOTION. OKAY, WELL, YEAH. SO HOW DO WE DO THAT? UM, DO YOU WANNA READ THE ITEM, MR. MAYOR? YES. OKAY. ITEM [9. EXECUTIVE SESSION] NINE, EXECUTIVE SESSION. COULD, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I THINK THAT I'VE DONE SOMETHING IN THE END, UPON PUBLIC MAJORITY VOTE, THE MEMBERS CONSTITUTING A QUORUM. THE COUNCIL MAY HOLD AN EXECUTIVE SESSION THAT IS NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC FOR THE FOLLOWING PURPOSES. DISCUSSION AND CONSULTATION WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY FOR LEGAL ADVICE AND TO CONSIDER THE CITY'S POSITION AND INSTRUCT ITS ATTORNEYS REGARDING PENDING LITIGATION REGARDING OLSON REAL ESTATE GROUP, UH, INC. VERSUS CITY OF SEDONA, OUT BY COUNTY SUPERIOR. UH, COURT CASE NUMBER CV 2 0 2 4 0 0 0 6 9 4. THIS MATTER IS BROUGHT IN EXECUTIVE SESSION PURSUANT TO A RS 38 DASH 4, 3 1, 3, A THREE AND FOUR, AND B TO CONSULT WITH LEGAL COUNSEL FOR ADVICE ON MATTERS LISTED IN THE AGENDA PER A RS 38 DASH 4 3 1 0 3 A THREE. A MOTION TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION. MAYOR, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO MOVE INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION AFTER A FIVE MINUTE BREAK. , IS THERE A SECOND TO THAT? SECOND. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? FIVE MINUTE BREAK. FIRST RECORDING. THE MIC'S ON. MIC'S ON. AND WE ARE RECORDING? YES. OKAY. ALRIGHT. WE'RE GONNA COME OUT OF EXECUTIVE SESSION AT THE PUBLIC SESSION. [10. ADJOURNMENT] OKAY. THIS MEETING IS NOW ADJOURNED. FOR REAL. THIS TIME. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.