* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:03] OKAY. WELCOME [1. CALL TO ORDER/PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE/MOMENT OF SILENCE] EVERYBODY. PLEASE REMEMBER TO TURN OFF OR SILENCE YOUR ELECTRONIC DEVICES, CELL PHONES, OR WHATEVER ELSE THAT YOU HAVE, AND WE'LL CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER. PLEASE JOIN ME FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. AND NOW A MOMENT OF SILENCE, IF YOU WILL. OKAY. THANK YOU. [2. ROLL CALL] MADAM UNPLUG YOUR ROLL CALL PLEASE. MAYOR JALO. PRESENT VICE MAYOR PLU. HERE. COUNCILOR DUNN. PRESENT. COUNCILOR FOLTZ? HERE. COUNCILOR FURMAN. PRESENT. COUNCILOR KINSELLA? HERE. COUNCILOR FAF. MAYOR. THANK YOU. [3. CONSENT ITEMS - APPROVE] OKAY, ITEM THREE I CONSENT ITEMS. THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE COUNCIL OR THE STAFF OR THE PUBLIC TO PULL AN ITEM OF INTEREST. DO WE HAVE ANYTHING, ANY INTEREST HERE? UM, I AM NOT SEEING ANY IN THE ROOM. CAN I HAVE A MOTION PLEASE? VICE MAYOR. I MOVE TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEMS A THROUGH D, SECOND. A THROUGH D, E, E THROUGH F. YEAH. WE HAVE F OH, I GUESS I HAVE THE WRONG AGENDA. , MY AGENDA ONLY GOES TO D. THANK YOU. I MOVE TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEMS A THROUGH F. SECOND. OKAY, ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? WE UNANIMOUS. OKAY. THANK YOU. APPOINTMENTS. WE HAVE NONE. SUMMARY [5. SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY MAYOR/COUNCILORS/CITY MANAGER & COUNCIL ASSIGNMENTS] OF CURRENT EVENTS BY MYSELF, THE COUNCILORS, UH, THE CITY MANAGER OR OUR COUNCIL ASSIGNMENTS. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING? OKAY. UH, I HAVE SOME, UH, INFORMATION I WANT THE COUNCILS TO BE AWARE OF. UH, THIS PAST FRIDAY, UH, CHRISTENSEN AND I ATTENDED A LEAGUE MEETING, UH, FOR MAYORS OF, UH, AND ELECTED OFFICIALS OF THE COUNTY, UH, OVER AT THE, THE GOLF RESORT. AND IT WAS TO GO OVER SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT WE ARE HAVING, UH, AND TO BRING IT TO THE LEAGUE'S ATTENTION. AND OUT OF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT ATTENDED, WE ONLY HAD, UH, SELENA BLISS ATTEND. QUAN WYNN DID NOT ATTEND. KEN BENNETT, WHO WAS THE OUTGOING SENATOR, UH, OF COURSE DID NOT ATTEND. UH, BUT SHE WAS THE ONLY ELECTED OFFICIAL. I THOUGHT THAT WAS PRETTY IMPRESSIVE. UH, THE MAYORS OF SUPERIOR PRESCOTT AND CLARKDALE WERE THE ONLY MAYORS THAT ATTENDED SUPERIOR, SUPERIOR PRESCOTT CLARKDALE. BUT YET ONLY ABOUT, I THINK MORE, MORE THAN 10 WERE INVITED. SO I THINK IT'S SO CLOSE TO THE HOLIDAYS THAT, UH, THERE WAS SOME ISSUES. BUT, UH, SOME OF THE, UH, COUNCILS, UH, THE MAYORS HAD, UH, THEY WANTED TO SEE, UH, A REDEFINITION OF SOBER LIVING HOMES ON FOR THE LEAGUE AGENDA COMING UP. AND, UH, THE LEAGUE, UH, AGREED WITH, UH, SELENA BLISS, WHO MENTIONED THAT IT DOES NOT SEEM TO BE ISSUES WITH, UH, THE INCOMING CAUCUSES THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE AS MANY, UH, ISSUES AS THERE HAVE IN THE PAST. THERE'S BEEN ENOUGH CHANGE THAT SHE FELT, AND IT'S JUST HER OPINION. AND, AND THE LEAGUE DIDN'T TAKE A POSITION ON THAT. BUT, UH, THEY THOUGHT THAT WE CAN GET SOME MORE THINGS ACCOMPLISHED. I SHARED WITH HER, UH, SOME OF THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAD, YOU KNOW, CONCERNS ABOUT SHORT TERM RENTALS. UH, WE DID NOT TOUCH ON OH, FEES, UH, BUT SHORT TERM RENTALS, WHICH SEEMS TO BE ACROSS THE STATE TO BE THE BIG ISSUE. NOW. ALSO, UM, ON THE 22ND, OH, I'M SORRY. I WAS SAY A COUPLE DAYS BEFORE, UH, I ATTENDED THE, UH, COTTONWOOD CITY COUNCIL MEETING IN SUPPORT OF OUTGOING TIM LINSKY AND INCOMING AND SHAW AS THE MAYOR OF THAT CITY. AND OUR DEPUTY CHIEF POLICE CHIEF WAS SWORN IN ALSO AS A, AS A COUNCIL PERSON. I THOUGHT THAT WAS PRETTY COOL TOO. SO, [00:05:01] UH, I'M REALLY ENCOURAGED BY THE PEOPLE ON THE COTTONWOOD CITY COUNCIL AND, UM, I THINK THEY'VE GOTTEN PAST SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT THEY HAVE. SO THAT'S ABOUT WHAT I HAVE SO FAR. SO, UM, IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE THAT HAS ANYTHING TO SHARE? OKAY. [6. PUBLIC FORUM] PUBLIC FORUM. WE HAVE TWO CARDS. OKAY. UH, TERRY COOK, I KNOW YOU KNOW THE DRILL. YOU'LL BE FOLLOWED BY MARIANNE DINKY FROM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE. WELCOME. NICE TO SEE YOU. A NEW FACE HERE, TERRY. THREE MINUTES, YOU KNOW, GIVE US YOUR, UH, NAME AND, UH, NAME AND CITY. TERRY COOK SEDONA. UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO BEGIN WITH. YOU FOLKS DO A DIFFICULT JOB AND I REALLY DO APPRECIATE IT, EVEN IF I NEVER SHOW UP. , UH, CAN YOU MOVE THE MIC CLOSER TO YOUR FACE? YEAH, THE MICS ARE, YEAH. THERE WAS AN ISSUE THIS MORNING. UH, AS I'M SURE MOST OF YOU ALREADY KNOW, HIGHWAY SIGNS FOR CAMPAIGN PURPOSES ARE ILLEGAL IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA. UH, SEDONA ITSELF HAD SENT OUT A VERY NICE INFORMATION PACKET TO LOCAL CANDIDATES AT THE TIME OF OUR LOCAL ELECTIONS. AND IT, IT HAD A, A, A GOOD DEAL OF DETAIL EXPLAINING THE SITUATION AND SAYING THAT ACTION COULD BE TAKEN. THAT SIGN BY ITSELF FOR OUR LOCAL ELECTION SEEMED TO WORK WONDERFULLY. UH, I HOPE, AT LEAST IN PART, SO PEOPLE WOULD NOT BE SHAMED BY PUTTING UP A SIGN THAT THEY KNEW WAS ILLEGAL IN THEIR OWN COMMUNITY. BUT IT, IT WORKED VERY NICELY. COMES NOVEMBER. IT DID NOT WORK AT ALL. UH, AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW, UH, FROM DRIVING IN OUR COMMUNITY. BUT WE HAVE A SITUATION IN WHICH THE SIGN IS ILLEGAL. THE HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT CHOOSES NOT TO TAKE ACTION BECAUSE IT'S JUST TOO CUMBERSOME FOR THEM TO TAKE ACTION. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF, FOR YEARS NOW, I THINK AT LEAST SIX YEARS, I THINK I CAME TO THE COUNCIL PERHAPS IN 2018 AND MENTIONED THAT FLAGSTAFF HAD A SIGN FREE ORDINANCE THAT THEY HAD PASSED. AND THEY USED IT TO MAKE SURE THAT SIGNS WERE NOT PLACED ALONG THE HIGHWAY RIGHT OF WAY. THAT ORDINANCE INCLUDES THEIR DOWNTOWN AREA AND SOME OTHER AREAS, BUT IT COVERS EVERYTHING FROM WHERE 17 DEAD ENDS INTO FLAGSTAFF ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE CITY, OUT THROUGH THE KOA, WELL, BASICALLY THROUGH THE ENTIRE CITY, I THINK. BUT I'VE BEEN OUT THROUGH THE KOA CAMPGROUNDS. SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE DISTANCE OF ABOUT 7.3 MILES. I MEASURED AND ON, LET'S SEE, ON 10 28, I TOOK A TRIP UP THE FLAGSTAFF AND I MEASURED THAT, THAT DISTANCE FROM WHERE 17 DEAD ENDS AND, AND TO ROUTE SIX AND ALL THE WAY TO THE KOA CAMPGROUNDS, WHICH AS I SAID, IT'S ABOUT 7.4 MILES. THERE WERE FIVE SIGNS AND ALL THOSE SIGNS WERE IN ONE LITTLE AREA, WHICH I THINK MAY HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN PRIVATE PROPERTY 'CAUSE THEY WERE SET SO FAR BACK. I HAD ACTUALLY TURNED BACK AROUND TO MAKE SURE I, I, I THOUGHT I SAW 'EM AS I DROVE BY LOOKING FOR SIGNS, BUT I WASN'T SURE. SO I TURNED BACK AROUND AND FOUND THEM AND THEY WERE JUST OFF THE HIGHWAY. BUT ENOUGH THAT IT MAY HAVE BEEN ON THAT PARTICULAR LANDOWNER'S PROPERTY AND NOT VERY VISIBLE AT ALL FROM THE HIGHWAY FIVE SIGNS. I DID, UH, A RUN FROM THE METHODIST CHURCH DOWN BY THE CATHEDRAL ROCK. CUT OFF THE ROUNDABOUT THERE, UP THE, THE Y THERE WERE 78 SIGNS. I THEN DROVE FROM THE Y OUT TO THE RED, UPPER RED ROCK ROCK LOOP ROAD. THERE WERE 105 SIGNS. WE HAD 183 SIGNS IN WHAT I MEASURED TO BE 7.7 MILES ROUGHLY. EQUIVALENT. EQUIVALENT. A LITTLE BIT MORE. IS THAT ME SAYING I'M DONE? YOU'RE DONE. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, JUDGE. I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF YOU COULD LOOK INTO THAT. OKAY. YOU TAKE CARE. THANK YOU. OKAY. MARYANNE, PLEASE, PLEASE SHARE WITH US YOUR NAME, CITY OF RESIDENCE, AND THE, I GUESS THE OFFICE THAT YOU WORK FOR IF YOU, IF YOU SO CHOOSE. YEAH, I WORK. UM, MY NAME IS MARYANNE DUBINSKI. I ACTUALLY LIVE IN PRESCOTT, BUT I AM A NEW EMPLOYEE OF THE ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE. AND I WILL BE ASSIGNED TO YAVAPAI, COCONINO, AND MOJAVE COUNTIES TO DO COMMUNITY OUTREACH. SO I'M JUST HERE TO INTRODUCE MYSELF, LET YOU KNOW I'M NEARBY AND THAT I WOULD LOVE TO PARTICIPATE IN ANY COMMUNITY OUTREACH ACTIVITIES OR EVENTS THAT THE CITY OF SEDONA IS PLANNING. I'M ALSO HAPPY TO HELP IF YOUR COUNSEL HAS ANY CONCERNS, YOU WOULD LIKE TO COMMUNICATE UP THE CHAIN OF COMMAND AT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE. SO I'LL FOLLOW UP BY EMAIL TOMORROW TOO. SO YOU ALL HAVE MY CONTACT INFORMATION. THANK YOU. GREAT. THANK YOU. WELCOME, WELCOME. THANK YOU FOR THE OUTREACH. AND SO YOU'LL EMAIL ALL OF US. YOU COULD DO IT TO OUR WEBSITE OR [00:10:01] ELSE, UH, THE CITY CLERK. OKAY. BUT I WOULD LOVE TO, UH, SIT DOWN WITH YOU. I'M SURE MAYBE SOME OF THE OTHER COUNSELORS INDIVIDUALLY WOULD LIKE TO MEET WITH YOU AS WELL OVER THE COURSE OF NEXT COUPLE YEARS. PERFECT. THANK YOU. THANKS FOR COMING. OKAY. PROCLAMATION, RECOGNITIONS OF AWARDS. WE HAVE NONE. OKAY. [8.a. AB 3071 Public Hearing/discussion/possible direction regarding Development Impact Fees and the proposed Development Fee Report.] REGULAR BUSINESS ITEM, A AB 30 71 PUBLIC HEARING DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE DIRECTION REGARDING DEVELOPMENT, IMPACT, FEES, AND A PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT FEE REPORT. THIS WILL BE ANNETTE, I THINK. THANK YOU MAYOR AND COUNCIL. ANNETTE STICKERED, UM, CITY MANAGER. AND ON THE, UM, TEAM SCREEN, WE HAVE OUR FINANCE DIRECTOR, BARBARA WHITEHORN JOINING US REMOTELY. HI, BARBARA. UM, TONIGHT WE DID NOT HAVE BEN JOIN US FROM, UM, THE CONSULTING FIRM BECAUSE AT THIS POINT I THINK HE'S PROVIDED YOU ALL OF THE INFORMATION HE CAN. AND WE'RE IN JUST A DECISION MAKING DISCUSSION. UM, BARBARA HAS PREPARED A SLIDE DECK FOR YOU, WHICH, UM, FOLLOWS THE MEMO THAT YOU WERE SENT AT THE LAST PUBLIC HEARING. UM, COUNSEL INDICATED INTEREST IN, UM, NARROWING DOWN A DISCUSSION AROUND, UH, MULTIFAMILY RELATED TO THE DIFF, WHICH, UH, BARBARA HAS PREPARED. AND THEN WE'RE HAPPY TO CONTINUE, UM, ANSWERING QUESTIONS OR HELPING WITH YOUR DISCUSSION. AND IF YOU, UM, DO REACH A POINT TONIGHT THAT YOU WANT TO GIVE DIRECTION TO THE STAFF ON IT, UH, WE CAN KEEP WITH THE, AND IT INCLUDES, UM, SOME PORTION OF THE FEE, THEN WE WOULD STICK WITH OUR CURRENT SCHEDULE TO HOLD, UM, THE NEXT, UH, DISCUSSION FOR POSSIBLE ADOPTION ON JANUARY 14TH. BUT WE'LL SEE WHERE YOU END UP TONIGHT AND WHETHER WE NEED TO ADJUST THAT CALENDAR. SO I'LL TURN IT OVER TO BARBARA. HEY BARBARA. GOOD EVENING, MAYOR. COUNCIL, MANAGER, SPEAKER. GOOD TO BE HERE. HOPEFULLY YOU CAN HEAR ME. WE CAN. GOOD. I BELIEVE SO. OKAY, EXCELLENT. UM, SO I'M JOINING YOU FROM COLORADO. I'M VISITING MY PARENTS. UM, SO YOU HAVE A MEMO AND WE HAVE A, UH, POWERPOINT THAT WE CAN GO THROUGH. UM, I CAN'T SEE THE POWERPOINT, SO SOMEONE ELSE WILL HAVE TO DRIVE THAT AND THEN I CAN SPEAK TO IT. GIMME TWO SECONDS. AWESOME. WELL, I WILL SAY AS ANNETTE'S GETTING READY THAT, UM, THE MORE I GET INTO THE DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEES AND WORK WITH BEN, THE MORE FASCINATING IT IS AND IT'S REALLY LEGALLY CONSTRAINED. BUT I'VE LEARNED A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT AND I FEEL LIKE I CAN ANSWER MOST OF THE QUESTIONS YOU HAD LAST TIME, UM, MORE EFFECTIVELY, UH, TONIGHT. SO EXCITED. I'VE SPENT LIKE LOTS OF TIME RESEARCHING THAT THERE. OH, OKAY. SHOULD I JUST BECAUSE I THOUGHT I PUT IT IN THERE. WELL, IF YOU CAN, UM, START BY GOING OVER YOUR MEMO. I'M GONNA MAKE SURE I GET THE CORRECT POWERPOINT FILE UP FOR YOU, BUT IT'S GONNA TAKE ME JUST A MOMENT. BUT YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND START, BARBARA. OKAY. UM, SO LOOKING AT THE MEMO THAT YOU HAVE, UM, WE HAD A FEW THINGS THAT YOU HAD ASKED THAT WE LOOK INTO AT THE LAST COUNCIL MEETING. AND THAT WAS, UM, POTENTIALLY INCORPORATING HIGHER SIZE TIERS FOR RESIDENTIAL, LIKE BEYOND THAT 47 0 1 PLUS UP TO, YOU KNOW, CLOSE TO 10,000 SQUARE FEET. UM, THEN WE ALSO HAD POTENTIAL CHANGES TO MULTI-FAMILY, WHICH WAS POSSIBLY CHARGING MULTI-FAMILY FEES BASED ON THE TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE AS OPPOSED TO THE SQUARE FOOTAGE PER UNIT. AND THEN PULLING OUT MULTI-FAMILY FROM RESIDENTIAL. SO YOU HAVE SINGLE FAMILY AND MULTIFAMILY SO CRITICAL TO UNDERSTAND, AND THIS WAS, THIS WAS REALLY INTERESTING TO ME THAT THERE'S A REALLY SPECIFIC LEGAL FRAMEWORK THAT THE STATE OF ARIZONA HAS ESTABLISHED UNDER, UM, ARIZONA REVISED STATUTES NINE SUBSECTION 4 63 0 5 E FOUR. 'CAUSE I KNOW YOU ALL WANTED THAT . UM, BUT WHAT THAT SAYS IS THAT, AND I'M GONNA JUST QUOTE THIS A TABLE ESTABLISHING THE SPECIFIC LEVEL OR QUANTITY OF USE CONSUMPTION GENERATION OR DISCHARGE OF A SERVICE UNIT [00:15:01] FOR EACH CATEGORY OF NECESSARY PUBLIC SERVICE OR FACILITY EXPANSIONS AND AN EQUIVALENCY OR CONVERSION TABLE ESTABLISHING THE RATIO OF A SERVICE UNIT TO VARIOUS TYPES OF LAND USES, INCLUDING RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL, AND INDUSTRIAL. WHAT THAT ESSENTIALLY MEANS IS THAT ANY LAND USE ASSUMPTIONS WE MAKE HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE A RELATIONSHIP THAT IS PROPORTIONATE BETWEEN THE, THE HOUSEHOLD OR THE INDIVIDUALS AND THE ACTUAL IMPACT THAT THEY'RE HAVING. AND THE IMPACT IS MEASURED BY THE SIZE OF THE HOUSEHOLD AND ASSUMED SORT OF TRIPS LIKE VEHICLE TRIPS. AND THE VEHICLE TRIPS OBVIOUSLY IMPACT LIKE THE STREETS FEES, RIGHT? BUT THE SIZE OF THE UNIT ITSELF, LIKE THE ACTUAL SQUARE FEET IS NOT WHAT'S DRIVING THE POTENTIAL FEE. IT'S ACTUALLY THE ASSUMED HOUSEHOLD SIZE WITHIN THAT UNIT. AND THIS ASSUMED THE HOUSEHOLD SIZE SIZES, EXCUSE ME, COME FROM THE US CENSUS PUBLIC USE, MICRO DATA SAMPLES, PALMS. UM, WHICH IS REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE WHAT THEY DO IS THEY FIGURE OUT IN AN AREA AND THEY DIVIDE THE COUNTRY UP INTO ALL KINDS OF AREAS, AND THEY SAY HOW MANY PEOPLE LIVE IN THESE DIFFERENT SIZE UNITS? AND SO THEY HAVE AN AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD SIZE PER UNIT BASED ON, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT SQUARE FEET. SO THAT'S WHERE THOSE LIKE HOUSEHOLD ASSUMPTIONS COME IN. AND WHEN WE TALKED, UH, TWO WEEKS AGO, ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT I RECOGNIZE AND THAT YOU ALL DID AS WELL, WAS THAT IT APPEARS THAT SMALLER UNITS ARE BEING DISPROPORTIONATELY CHARGED VERSUS LARGER UNITS. IN REALITY, WHAT THAT'S DRIVEN BY IS NOT THE SIZE OF THE UNIT, BUT BY THE AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD SIZE IN THAT SIZE UNIT. AND THE AVERAGE HOME RESIDENTIAL IN SEDONA IS BETWEEN TWENTY TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY SEVEN HUNDRED SQUARE FEET AND HAS 2.36 INDIVIDUALS AVERAGE. WHEN WE LOOK AT LIKE A 700 SQUARE FOOT UNIT, THERE'S LIKE, ONE PERSON IS ASSUMED IN THAT UNIT. WHEN YOU LOOK AT 4,700 AND ABOVE, THERE'S ASSUMED TO BE 3.28. SO THE IMPACT OF THAT 4,700 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE IS 3.8 TIMES THE IMPACT OF THAT VERY SMALL HOUSE, WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, MULTIFAMILY OR, OR SINGLE. WHAT THEN DRIVES THE PERCENTAGE OF TOTAL COST DOWN? IS THAT BUILDING A GIANT HOUSE, IT'S LIKE 5,000 SQUARE FEET IS GOING TO COST. SAY IF WE NORMALIZE COST ABOUT 6.7 TIMES, WHAT BUILDING A 700 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE WOULD COST? SO THE PERCENTAGE OF THE TOTAL COST IS GOING TO APPEAR MUCH LOWER ON THE BIGGER HOUSE BECAUSE THE IMPACT OF THE HOUSEHOLD SIZE IS NOT PROPORTIONATE TO THE COST PER SQUARE FOOT. IT'S ACTUALLY PROPORTIONATE TO THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE ASSUMED TO BE IN THAT HOUSE, WHICH IS INTERESTING. BUT KIND OF IT'S JUST THE WAY THAT IT WORKS AND IT MEANS THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE MORE PEOPLE IN SMALLER UNITS, WHICH YOU GENERALLY DO, UM, THOSE LARGER UNITS AREN'T EVER GOING TO BE THE SAME SORT OF COST PERCENTAGE WISE OF THE TOTAL COST TO BUILD. SO THAT I, THAT I FOUND REALLY, UM, INTERESTING. AND THEN SO GOING INTO INCORPORATING THE POTENTIAL TO INCORPORATE HIGHER TIERS INTO, UM, JUST RESIDENTIAL IN GENERAL, THOSE CHANGE, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE ASSUMPTIONS, THE HOUSEHOLD SIZES CHANGE SLIGHTLY, BUT NOT A WHOLE LOT. AND THE FEES FOR RESIDENTIAL REMAIN THE SAME, UM, FOR THIS, FOR THE HOMES UP TO 47 0 1, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WE INCORPORATED UP TO 9,701 OR MORE. AND THOSE, UM, THOSE TIERS ARE FAIRLY UNUSUAL. BUT YOU CAN ALSO NOTE, UM, ON PAGE THREE OF YOUR MEMO THAT THOSE REALLY LARGE HOMES ONLY HAVE A PROPORTIONATE IMPACT OF 4.16 PEOPLE PER HOUSEHOLD. SO THERE'S, THEY'RE STILL GONNA PAY A LOT LESS PER PERCENTAGE WISE, BUT THEY'RE PAYING FOR [00:20:01] THE IMPACT OF THE PEOPLE AND THE ASSUMED TRIPS, YOU KNOW, VEHICLE, UH, TRIPS ON THE STREETS. SO I HAVE SEVERAL TABLES THAT PROVIDE, UM, WHAT THOSE FEES WOULD BE IF WE, YOU KNOW, INCREASE THOSE AND HOW THEY WOULD, YOU KNOW, CHANGE. THAT'S ON PAGE FOUR. AND THEN, UM, ALSO ON PAGE FIVE THAT TALKS ABOUT PERSONS PER HOUSEHOLD AVERAGE WEEKDAY VEHICLE, UH, VEHICLE TRIPS. AND THEN, UM, I PROVIDED A PERCENTAGE, LIKE HOW MUCH THEY INCREASE, HOW MUCH THOSE, THOSE FEES INCREASE BY TIER. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THEY START, THE AMOUNT THAT THEY INCREASED GOES DOWN OVER, OVER THE SIZES BECAUSE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE HOUSEHOLD IS NOT INCREASING AT THE SAME RATE. UM, IT'S KIND OF AN INTERESTING STUDY, BUT IT'S A LOT OF DATA AND I KNOW IT IS A LOT TO ABSORB. SO TRYING NOT TO MAKE IT TOO COMPLICATED. UM, I MEAN, I KNOW Y'ALL ARE BRILLIANT AND UNDERSTAND THIS, BUT, UM, I ALSO KNOW THAT IT'S KIND OF A LOT AND WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THIS IN A FAIR WAY FOR THE COMMUNITY AND TO MEASURE THE IMPACT ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND POLICE SERVICES AND PARKS. SO WHEN WE LOOK THEN AT POTENTIAL MULTI-FAMILY FEE CHANGES, UM, I WANNA START WITH THE CITY'S DEFINITION OF MULTIFAMILY. IT INCLUDES TRIPLEXES, QUADPLEXES TOWN HOMES WITH AT LEAST THREE UNITS, CONDOMINIUMS AND APARTMENTS DUPLEXES ARE NOT INCLUDED. UM, THE FIRST THING THAT BEN AND I DISCUSSED WAS THAT WE CANNOT IN FACT CHARGE MULTI-FAMILY BY TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE. AND THE REASON THAT IS, IS THAT YOU'RE NOT THEN DEMONSTRATING THAT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE PROPORTIONATE IMPACT AND THE FEE. FOR EXAMPLE, IF WE KEPT OUR, OUR, THE CURRENT PROPOSED FEE STRUCTURE THAT GOES TO THE 47 0 1, SAY YOU HAVE 10 UNITS OF A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET EACH YOU'VE GOT, OR 700 BECAUSE THAT'S ONE PERSON YOU'RE PAYING ONLY FOR THE IMPACT OF 3.28 PEOPLE, EVEN THOUGH THE ACTUAL IMPACT IS 10 PEOPLE, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. IF YOU'RE ASSUMING ONE PERSON PER 700 SQUARE FOOT UNIT AND YOU HAVE 10 UNITS, THERE SHOULD BE AN IMPACT OF 10 PEOPLE. BUT IF YOU PAY BY TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE, THEY WOULD ONLY BE PAYING FOR AN IMPACT OF 3.28 PEOPLE. SO THAT BREAKS THAT LINK BETWEEN THE HOUSEHOLD SIZE AND THE IMPACT THAT'S REQUIRED BY THE STATE. SO THAT IS, IS NOT AN OPTION THAT THE CITY CAN, CAN CHOOSE. UM, BEN DID SEPARATE THE MULTI-FAMILY FROM RESIDENTIAL SO THAT WE COULD SEE LIKE HOW THAT WOULD, HOW THAT WOULD PLAY OUT. UM, AND IT, IT VARIES A LITTLE, IT DOESN'T CHANGE, IT DOESN'T CHANGE THINGS A LOT. BUT WHAT IT DOES CHANGE IS THAT SOME OF THE SINGLE FAMILY COSTS, IF YOU LOOK AT PAGE EIGHT, THIS SHOWS, IF WE PULL OUT THE MULTI-FAMILY FROM ALL THE OTHER RESIDENTIAL AND JUST HAVE SINGLE FAMILY, THE SMALLER UNITS FOR SINGLE FAMILY HAVE TO PAY A HIGHER FEE. AND THEN THERE'S SORT OF THE MID RANGE FROM 1700 SQUARE FEET TO 3,700 SQUARE FEET, PAY SLIGHTLY LOWER FEES, AND THEN THE REST ARE ALL HIGHER IN MULTIFAMILY, THE THE TWO VERY LOWEST 700 SQUARE FEET OR LESS. AND THEN 7 0 1 TO 1,700 PAYS ABOUT $700 LESS. AND THEN 7 0 1 2000 SQUARE FEET PAYS $38 LESS. SO NOT REALLY. AND THEN THE, THE REMAINING TIERS UP TO 27 0 1, WHICH IS REALLY THE POINT AT WHICH WE, WE DON'T REALLY SEE A LOT OF MULTIFAMILY BIGGER THAN THAT. THERE ARE SOME, BUT THERE'S NOT ANY VALUE TO BREAKING THAT OUT. UM, THOSE, THOSE FEES ALL INCREASE AND THEY'RE, UM, REALLY WHEN YOU PULL IT OUT, IT KIND OF INCREASES FEES ACROSS THE BOARD EXCEPT FOR FOUR SINGLE FAMILY AND TWO MULTIFAMILY TIERS. UM, IT IS, IT IS AN OPTION. I JUST DON'T KNOW THAT IT PROVIDES THE LEVEL OF POTENTIAL BENEFIT FOR MULTIFAMILY THAT, UM, WAS ENVISIONED WITH. IF WE PULL THIS OUT, WILL THIS SORT OF [00:25:01] IMPROVE THE ABILITY OF PEOPLE TO AFFORD TO DO THIS? I DON'T THINK IT, IT MAKES A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE. UM, ON THE OTHER HAND, AND WHAT WAS ALSO DISCUSSED TWO WEEKS AGO WAS TRYING TO ADDRESS AFFORDABILITY THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVES, UM, AND GUIDELINES FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING. THEA, UM, IT'S A LITTLE MORE EASILY ADDRESSED THIS WAY. UM, DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVES CAN BE APPLIED TO PROJECTS ACCORDING TO VARIOUS FACTORS, WHICH YOU ALL CAN DETERMINE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SAY, THIS IS WHAT MATTERS TO US IN MULTI-FAMILY, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO SEE. AND YOU CAN MAKE A DETERMINATION ON A PROJECT BY PROJECT BASIS AND SAY, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE GOING TO DO 20 YEARS OF AFFORDABILITY, GUARANTEED THEY'RE GONNA DO, THEY WANT TO DO 10 YEARS. AND YOU CAN SORT OF EVALUATE EACH PROJECT ON ITS PARTICULAR MERITS AS FAR AS WHAT IT PROVIDES TO THE CITY, HOW MUCH AFFORDABILITY IT REALLY PROVIDES THE CITY. UM, AND ONE AMENDMENT TO THE DGA THAT'S BEING RECOMMENDED TONIGHT IS CHANGING THE WORDING FROM THE CITY WILL WAIVE OR DEFER ALL APPLICABLE IMPACT FEES TO THE CITY WILL PAY OR DEFER BECAUSE LEGALLY WE CAN'T ACTUALLY WAIVE THEM. WE ESSENTIALLY LIKE HAVE TO TAKE MONEY FROM OUR LEFT POCKET AND PUT IT IN THE DEVELOPMENT FEE RIGHT POCKET. WE JUST HAVE TO PAY IT FROM ANOTHER SOURCE BECAUSE WAIVING THEM IS ACTUALLY ILLEGAL. UM, THAT'S, THAT VIOLATES THE GIFT CLAUSE. SO THAT'S THE MEMO IN A NUTSHELL. I DON'T KNOW IF WE WERE ABLE TO PULL UP THE POWERPOINT AND, YOU KNOW, IF NOT, THANK YOU, BARBARA. UM, NO, WE WEREN'T. I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. WE HAD A SINKING ERROR WITH SHAREPOINT WHERE IT DID NOT ACTUALLY GET INTO THE MAIN PRESENTATION FILE, BUT YOU COVERED EVERYTHING THAT WAS IN THE SLIDES. HER SLIDE DECK, UM, WAS THE SAME INFORMATION AS IN THE MEMO, SO THERE WASN'T ANYTHING ADDITIONAL IN THE SLIDE DECK. UM, SO I THINK WE'RE READY FOR QUESTIONS. OKAY. UH, QUESTIONS TO MY RIGHT, RIGHT. I'VE HAD MY, I'VE HAD MY QUESTIONS ANSWERED, UH, ALREADY, SO I'M PRETTY MUCH READY FOR DISCUSSION. OKAY. KATHY, THE WILL, UH, OR VERSE, UH, SORRY, IT SAYS, UH, MAY WAIVE OR DEFER AND YOU WANNA CHANGE. NO, IT SAYS WILL WAIVE OR DEFER AND YOU WANNA CHANGE THAT TO WILL PAY OR DEFER. BUT WHAT ABOUT CHANGING THE WILL TO A MAY? IS THERE A REASON THAT THAT'S NOT A PERMISSIVE WHY THAT'S A MANDATORY WILL PAY? BECAUSE THAT'S, THAT'S, THERE'S NO FLEXIBILITY THERE FROM CASE TO CASE. SO I WAS WONDERING IF WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT, I KNOW THIS IS, THIS IS A NEW QUESTION THAT I'M RAISING IN TERMS OF THAT LANGUAGE, BUT I, I'M JUST WONDERING WHY WE WOULD LEAVE THAT WORD AS WILL INSTEAD OF MAY. UH, THANK YOU COUNCILOR KINSELLA, UM, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. UM, I THINK IT'S YOUR POLICY AND YOU CAN CHOOSE TO HAVE WHATEVER WORDING YOU WANT TO HAVE IN THERE. UM, THIS IS DISCRETIONARY FOR YOU. UM, AND I'LL LOOK TO MONIQUE TO CORRECT ME ON THAT FROM THE LEGAL PERSPECTIVE. BUT I BELIEVE YOU CAN WORD THAT HOWEVER YOU WOULD LIKE. UM, I THINK BY SAYING WILL, THAT'S JUST SENDING, UM, THE CLEAR MESSAGE TO POTENTIAL DEVELOPER APPLICANTS, UM, YOUR COMMITMENT TO INCENTIVIZING MULTI-FAMILY AFFORDABLE HOUSING. BUT IF YOU WOULD LIKE IT TO SAY MAY I AM SURE WE COULD DO THAT. NO PROBLEM. THE CITY MANAGER IS THIS ON? IT IS. YEAH. YOU JUST HAVE TO BE, I'M REALLY LOUD ANYWAY. UH, YEAH, THE, UH, CITY MANAGER IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT THAT THE WAY THE STATUTE READS, IT'S UNDER, UH, A RS 9 4 63 0.05 B 13. IT SAYS, IF A MUNICIPALITY AGREES TO WAIVE ANY OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF FEES, THE MUNICIPALITY SHALL REIMBURSE THE APPROPRIATE DEVELOPMENT FEE ACCOUNTS. SO IT'S ENTIRELY UP TO YOU. AND IF AS A POLICY YOU WANT TO ALWAYS, UH, PAY FOR THOSE FEES, ALL ARE A PORTION OF THEM FOR, UM, AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THAT IT'S ENTIRELY AT YOUR DISCRETION. AND IF THAT'S THE POLICY, YOU CAN CERTAINLY LEAVE IT AS WILL. BUT IF YOU WANNA EVALUATE ON A CASE BY CASE, YOU CAN CERTAINLY CHANGE THAT TO MAY. OKAY. THAT ANSWERS THE QUESTION. I THINK THAT'S FOR DISCUSSION. UM, I THINK THAT'S ALL I HAVE FOR NOW. OKAY. YEP. MY QUESTION, CAN YOU PLEASE REMIND ME, SINCE WE'RE COUCHING IN HERE, AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNITS, A HUA HSU'S, WHAT'S THE LEGAL DEFINITION OF [00:30:01] AN A HU OR OUR DEFINITION? I DON'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT THERE ARE EXPERTS IN THE ROOM HERE, OR WE COULD QUICKLY LOOK UP IN THE, I BELIEVE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE DIGA, THERE IS A DESCRIPTION OF WHAT WE MEAN BY THAT, AND IT, UM, INDICATES A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF A MI PROJECTS THAT MEET CERTAIN CRITERIA. UM, SO WE CAN PULL UP THE FULL DOCUMENT AND DOUBLE CHECK THAT REAL QUICK, BUT I BELIEVE WE HAVE A DEFINITION IN THERE ALREADY. AND, UM, STAFF IS PROPOSING TO BRING BACK AT A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION ITEM AGENDAS FOR COUNCIL TO DO A MORE COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW OF THE WORDING IN THE DIGA, UM, TO CLARIFY ANY OF THOSE POINTS. SO TONIGHT, JUST BECAUSE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEE, WE THOUGHT IT WAS APPROPRIATE TO BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION THE CLEANUP TO THE, UM, WAIVER LANGUAGE THAT WE FEEL IS REQUIRED BECAUSE OF THE GIFT CLAUSE. UM, BUT WE WEREN'T PLANNING TO REVIEW AND REVISE THE WHOLE DIGA AS PART OF TONIGHT'S DISCUSSION, BUT I'LL DOUBLE CHECK THAT REAL QUICK WHILE YOU'RE, UM, CONTINUING YOUR DISCUSSION. SO FOR THE PURPOSES I CAN ANSWER THAT. OH, THANK YOU. THE WHILE Y'ALL WERE TALKING. UM, AND THE DEFINITION OF AFFORDABLE IS THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNIT IS AFFORDABLE TO THE TARGET POPULATION SPECIFIED IN THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WHEN THE MONTHLY COST OF HOME OWNERSHIP OR RENT, INCLUDING MORTGAGE PROPERTY TAXES, UTILITY, HOA FEES, RENT, UTILITIES, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, DOES NOT EXCEED 35% OF HOUSEHOLD INCOME. THAT'S THE, THE TOP DEFINITION. AND THEN IT GOES INTO, YOU KNOW, INDIVIDUAL UNITS AREA MEDIAN INCOME. BUT I THINK THE KEY IS THAT 35%, UM, TOTAL HOUSING COST, AT LEAST IN OUR DATA. THANK YOU FOR THAT. SO THAT I WOULD THINK WOULD SEEM TO EXCLUDE IF A DEVELOPER WANTED TO COME IN HERE AND BUILD A SMALL SQUARE FOOT AVAILABLE HOUSING PROJECT THAT THEY DIDN'T WANNA SPEND THE EXECUTIVE TIME PROVING THE 30%, BUT THEY WERE GONNA BE MORE AFFORDABLE BECAUSE THEY'RE LESS, THEY'RE SMALLER. IT WOULDN'T BE AVAILABLE FOR THIS DIFF WAIVER BECAUSE OF THE WAY WE'VE WORDED IT. UM, , UH, FROM A A LEGAL POINT OF VIEW, THE, THE GIFT CLAUSE WOULD, WOULD BE A CONCERN. SO THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, DEVELOPMENTS THAT WOULD NOT QUALIFY FOR THE DEFINITION THAT BARBARA, UH, FOUND FOR US, UH, WOULD HAVE TO BE EVALUATED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS TO SEE IF THE AMOUNT OF THE DIFF FUNDS THAT THE CITY WOULD BE PAYING, IF IT WAS PROPORTIONAL TO WHAT THE CITY WOULD BE RECEIVING IN RETURN. SO IT, IT COULD BE DONE ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. MM-HMM. , YOU'RE, BUT NOT IF WE'RE NOT, IF WE KEEP THE A HU LANGUAGE IN HERE THOUGH, I, I WOULD THINK, WELL, ARE YOU, UH, I'M SORRY, I JUST NEED TO CLARIFY WHAT YOUR QUESTION IS. THAT'S WHY I KIND OF HAD A STUMPED LOOK FOR A SECOND. SURE. UM, ARE YOU ASKING ABOUT A MULTIFAMILY PROJECT THAT HAS A NUMBER OF SMALL UNITS, NOT, UM, JUST A SINGLE FAMILY UNIT OR AN A DU, RIGHT? CORRECT. YEAH. SO OUR PRACTICE, MY UNDERSTANDING IS OUR PRACTICE HAS BEEN THAT ANY MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPER THAT COMES INTO THE OFFICE AND CONSULTS WITH STAFF ABOUT THEIR CONCEPTUAL PROJECT, WE MAKE THEM AWARE THAT THIS IS AVAILABLE AND THAT IT IS REVIEWED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS BY THE COUNSEL. AND THAT, UM, IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO UTILIZE THIS POLICY STAFF WORKS WITH THEM ON WHAT WOULD, UM, WHAT SOME OF THE ELEMENTS WOULD NEED TO BE. UM, SO AGAIN, WE'RE TRYING TO INCENTIVIZE HOUSING THAT, UM, DOES NOT DISPROPORTIONATELY COST BURDEN THE RENTERS AND, UM, PROVIDES AFFORDABILITY. SO I THINK THAT DEFINITION IS JUST ADDRESSING THE BASIC, UM, STANDARD FROM HUD ABOUT WHEN SOMEONE IS COST BURDENED BY THEIR RENT, WHICH IS MORE THAN 30% OF THEIR HOUSEHOLD INCOME. UM, SO I THINK THAT'S WHERE THAT CAME FROM. I JUST THINK IT CAME FROM, YEAH, BECAUSE WE RELY ON THE WORD A HU IN THIS LANGUAGE, WE'RE GOING TO EXPECT AND DEMAND SOME ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN TO PROVE THE 30%. AND THERE COULD BE A, A REALLY MERITORIOUS PROJECT OUT THERE THAT IS JUST SMALL SQUARE FOOT THAT'S MARKET RATE THAT WOULD DELIVER THE SAME RENT RATE AND, BUT WOULDN'T NEED THE OVERHEAD OF PROVING THE 30% FROM EVERYBODY AND WOULD ACTUALLY BECOME EVEN A MORE AFFORDABLE PROJECT BECAUSE OF THE LESS BUREAUCRATIC NATURE. SO I THINK WE'RE BEING A LITTLE BIT [00:35:01] OVERLY RESTRICTIVE BY TYING IT TO DIGA AND A HU MIGHT IS MORE OF A COMMENT. THANK YOU, MAYOR. COUNCIL FERMAN, I, I WOULD JUST COMMENT THAT, UM, A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT COULD CERTAINLY BE A, A MECHANISM TO LOOK AT, UH, THE CITY PAYING FOR A PORTION OF, UH, THIS DEVELOPMENT FEES FOR A PROJECT THAT WOULD NOT VIOLATE THE GIFT CLAUSE. SO, UH, DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WOULD BE THE MECHANISM. I, I WOULD THINK. THANK YOU FOR THAT. SO BY ADDRESSING THIS IN THE DIGO, WE'RE NOT LIMITING OUR ABILITY TO WAIVE, I'M SORRY, PAY THESE FEES ON BEHALF OF A MERITORIOUS PROJECT. I, I, I DON'T SEE THAT AS, AS BEING TRUE. I THINK THEY'RE KIND OF, IT'S LIKE TWO DIFFERENT ISSUES. WE STILL HAVE GIFT CLAUSE, WE STILL HAVE TO LOOK FOR PUBLIC BENEFIT, RIGHT. , THAT'S YOUR CONCERN, RIGHT? IS WE DON'T, IF WE, IF WE ADDRESS IT IN THE DIGGA, ARE WE PRECLUDING OURSELVES FROM USING IT ELSEWHERE? AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THE ANSWER TO THAT IS NO. I, I THINK THE DIG IS JUST A, IT'S LIKE A PREDETERMINED THE OUTCOME FOR THE GIFT CLAUSE ANALYSIS, WHEREAS, UH, PROJECTS THAT DON'T QUALIFY UNDER THE DIGA WOULD BE A CASE BY CASE ANALYSIS WOULD BE ONE WAY TO LOOK AT IT. IT'S NOT LIMITING IN THEORY. ANYTHING ELSE THERE? VICE MAYOR, YOU HAD SOMETHING I DID. THE WAY I'M READING THE DRAFT REVISION, IT'S MANDATORY IF THERE'S AHUS, IT'S PERMISSIBLE IN A DEVELOP A MIXED DEVELOPMENT THAT INCLUDES AHUS, IT SAYS NOTHING TO ADDRESS WHAT PETE'S QUESTION IS, DOESN'T GIVE PERMISSION TO ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS TO LOOK AT THAT. BUT, BUT I THINK YOU'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THE APPLICABILITY OF THE DIGA AND THE DIGA IS, IS APPLICABLE ONLY TO AFFORDABLE HOUSING. SO ONE WAY TO THINK OF THIS MARIN COUNCIL IS THAT THIS POLICY STATEMENT BY THE COUNCIL IS THE TOOL THAT THE STAFF KNOWS THEY CAN RELY ON TO MAKE ANY KIND OF COMMITMENTS TO THE DEVELOPERS, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY'RE IN TALKING AT THE STAFF LEVEL. UM, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO OFFER IT TO OTHER PROJECTS WITHOUT, UM, THIS CASE BY CASE REVIEW AND THE COUNCIL FEELING COMFORTABLE WITH IT. SO THAT'S ONE WAY TO LOOK AT THIS TOOL IS THIS IS A STATEMENT BY THE COUNCIL THAT YOU'VE PREVIOUSLY ADOPTED THAT YES, THE STAFF AT OUR LEVEL CAN WORK WITH DEVELOPERS ON THEIR PROJECTS. AND IF THEY MEET THESE CRITERIA, WE CAN OFFER THESE PAYMENTS OR DEFERRALS, UM, WITHOUT HAVING TO COME BACK TO THE COUNCIL WITH YOUR APPROVAL UNTIL YOU KNOW MUCH LATER IN THE PROCESS WHEN IT'S COMING THROUGH DEVELOPMENT. UM, BUT IF THERE IS ONE THAT DOESN'T MEET THIS CRITERIA AND THEY WANNA ASK FOR THE COUNCIL'S APPROVAL, YOU KNOW, STAFF COULD ASK YOU, WOULD YOU APPROVE IT IN THIS CASE, ASSUMING THE GIFT CLAUSE, UM, IS MET. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HELPS. UM, IN THE OF, TO ME I'D LIKE LIKE TO CLARIFY THAT ON THAT OTHER, ANOTHER SENTENCE THAT WOULD SAY OTHER SITUATIONS CAN BE LOOKED, THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT LANGUAGE, BUT SOMETHING ALONG THESE LINES, OTHER SITUATIONS CAN BE REVIEWED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. SURE. YEAH. THIS IS VERY RESTRICTIVE. I AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUE HERE. THIS, IF YOU READ IT LITERALLY AND SOME PEOPLE DO READ THINGS, LITERALLY IT HAS TWO OPTIONS AND TWO OPTIONS ONLY. CORRECT. IT DOESN'T ALLOW FOR THE THIRD OPTION, WHICH WE DON'T HAVE TO DEFINE. WE CAN JUST SAY THAT WE WILL LOOK AT IT AND AT LEAST IT'S IN THERE. AND BECAUSE WE'RE, UM, WE DIDN'T ANTICIPATE DOING A REVISION TO OTHER PARTS OF THE DIGA TONIGHT, WE ONLY PUT IN THE, THE SPECIFIC PARAGRAPH REFERRING TO THE DIFF. UM, AND AGAIN, WE CAN MAKE NOTE OF THAT FOR THE REVISIONS COMING FORWARD AT A SEPARATE COUNCIL AGENDA ITEM. AND THEN YOU CAN FURTHER, YOU KNOW, DEBATE AND CLARIFY ALL THOSE PIECES. BUT WE CAN DEFINITELY TAKE THAT FEEDBACK INTO ACCOUNT RIGHT NOW FOR WHEN WE BRING THE FULL DIGA BACK FOR REVIEW. A QUESTION I HAVE IS, WE KEEP SAYING CASE BY CASE, IT'S GOING TO BE REVIEWED BY STAFF, BUT YOU KEEP SAYING IT'S GONNA COME BACK TO COUNCIL. HOW WOULD THAT, WHAT IS THAT MECHANISM? IT'S THE SAME WAY THAT IT WORKS NOW, WHERE THE DEVELOPER MAKES A PROPOSAL, THE STAFF EVALUATES IT AND UM, THINKS THAT IT MEETS THE CRITERIA. THEY WORK ON THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS AND YOU ARE THE ULTIMATE APPROVER OF THOSE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS. SO THAT'S WHEN IT COMES TO YOU. UM, SO YOU'VE SEEN THOSE BEFORE. OKAY. THAT WAS ONE ISSUE THAT I HAD. UH, COUNCIL FURMAN, YOU HAD ANOTHER QUESTION? YEAH, I MEAN, I, I THINK I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THAT, ALTHOUGH I APPRECIATE THE LANGUAGE CHANGE FOR THE DIGA AND THE FACT THAT WE'RE GONNA BE COMING BACK AND TALKING MORE ABOUT THE DIGA, MY CONCERN IS BROADER THAN THE DIGA. [00:40:01] I THINK SUBJECTIVELY THE DIGA HASN'T BEEN ALL THAT SUCCESSFUL. THE COMMUNITY PLAN TALKS ABOUT WANTING DIFFERENT HOUSING TYPES THAT CURRENTLY EXIST IN SEDONA OTHER THAN SINGLE FAMILY HOMES AND THE SMALL SPATTERING OF MULTIFAMILY THAT WE DO HAVE. AND SO WHAT I WANT OUR POLICY TO BE IS BROADER THAN JUST THE DIGGER. IT'S ENCOURAGING HOUSING TYPES AND HOUSING SIZES AND MULTIFAMILY AND MIXED USE STUFF THAT DOESN'T CURRENTLY EXIST. AND IT WON'T ONLY EXIST BECAUSE OF THE DIGA. IT'S GOTTA BE BROADER THAN THAT. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY, WE READY FOR COMMENTS AND DISCUSSION? PUBLIC, IT IS NOTICED AS A, OR SCHEDULED AS A PUBLIC HEARING. I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY SIGNED UP THOUGH. NO, MA'AM. WE HAVE NO CARDS. SOME, SOMEBODY JUST CAME IN NOW. IS THERE A CARD FOR THIS ITEM? NO, MA'AM. NO, NO CARDS. OKAY. SO WE'RE GONNA OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. UH, THERE ARE NO CARDS. WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN CONTINUE ON. UH, BRIAN, YOU WANNA START AGAIN ON MY, YOUR SIDE? DON'T BE SO ENTHUSIASTIC. . WELL, I'M CHALLENGED BY THE SAME THING AS COUNSELOR PETE AND THE VICE MAYOR ON MAKING SURE THAT MULTIFAMILY HAS IN IS INCENTED IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER IT IS, UH, AFFORDABLE HOUSING VERSUS MARKET RATE. AND LIKE I STILL DON'T HAVE A GREAT WARM FUZZY, UH, THAT WE'VE GOT THAT, UH, SPELLED OUT. UH, MAYBE WE DO AND I'M JUST NOT HEARING IT. UM, BUT I DO THINK THAT THAT'S IMPORTANT. THE OTHER CATEGORIES, UH, YOU KNOW, WHERE WE'VE ARRIVED AT NOW, LIKE I'M OKAY WITH THE OTHER CATEGORIES, BUT IN WANTING TO INCENT MULTIFAMILY LIKE THAT, WE, I THINK WE JUST, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET THAT RIGHT. I WANT TO THANK BARBARA, YOUR MEMO WAS SUPER HELPFUL AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT JUMPED OUT AT ME, AND I KNOW THAT IT'S BEEN SPOKEN TO US AND BEEN IN WRITING SINCE DAY ONE, BUT IT WAS SOMETHING, THE WAY YOU WROTE IT IN THE MEMO THAT JUST MADE A LIGHT BULB GO OFF FOR ME THAT IT IS CRAZY THAT SECOND HOMES AND SHORT TERM RENTALS DON'T COUNT IN THESE CALCULATIONS. THAT'S CRAZY. AND I'M GUESSING THAT THAT IS LEGACY PRE SB 1350. AND I HOPE THAT MY COLLEAGUES A MAJORITY MIGHT, UH, AGREE THAT WE SHOULD BE ASKING THE LEAGUE TO CONSIDER SOME CHANGE IN LANGUAGE ALLOWING FOR THE IMPACT OF SECOND HOMES AND SHORT TERM RENTALS, UH, TO BE FACTORED IN. BECAUSE IT, I BELIEVE IF I AM THINKING THIS THROUGH PROPERLY, THE FACT THAT THEY ARE EXCLUDED ACTUALLY LEADS TO A HIGHER DIFF COST THROUGH THE FORMULA BECAUSE THERE'S FEWER PEOPLE BEING CONSIDERED. SO I THINK IT'S PROBABLY AN UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE, AGAIN FROM SB 1350. AND IT SEEMS LIKE SOMETHING THAT OUGHT TO BE ADDRESSED. IS IT GONNA MAKE A BIG DEAL DIFFERENCE? I DON'T KNOW. IS IT FIVE OR 10% MAYBE? I DON'T KNOW, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S A MISSING PIECE. UH, SO I HOPE THAT THERE IS A AGREEMENT THAT WE SHOULD BE ASKING THE LEAGUE TO LOOK INTO THIS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, AS OF, UH, THERESA'S, UM, MEMO IN THE LAST DAY OR TWO WE'RE UP TO WHAT, 17.8% OF OUR HOUSING STOCK NOW THAT IS, UH, SHORT TERM RENTAL AND YOU CAN'T TELL ME THAT THERE'S NOT AN IMPACT ON POLICE AND STREETS IN PARTICULAR IN PARKS TOO FOR SHORT-TERM RENTAL USERS. SO ANYWAYS, A LITTLE BULLY PULPIT MOMENT. UM, UH, BUT I'M AGAIN, ALONG WITH MY COLLEAGUES WANTING TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS LANGUAGE ENDS UP ALLOWING FOR INCENTING MULTIFAMILY. THANK YOU MAYOR. UH, COUNCILOR FOLTZ, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU ON THAT. JUST WHAT YOU SAID, AND I AGREE WITH YOU. I THINK IT IS LEGACY FROM, UH, BEFORE 1350, HOWEVER, HOW WOULD YOU PHRASE THE IDEA OF SEPARATING SOMEBODY IF THEY'RE GONNA BUILD A, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE BUILDING. THEY DON'T COME IN AND SAY, WELL, IT'S NOT OFTEN I'M GONNA BUILD A SHORT TERM RENTAL. I'M GONNA BUILD A HOME THAT I'M RETIRING TO AND THEY TURN INTO A SHORT TERM RENTAL. SO THEY BYPASS THE SYSTEM. I DON'T KNOW HOW WE COULD FIGURE THAT OUT BECAUSE I, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE YOU HAVE TO, I THINK YOU JUST USE THE HOUSING STOCK THAT WE HAVE, RIGHT? BECAUSE NOW WE'RE EXCLUDING A PORTION OF IT AND SAYING, OH, WELL IT'S A SHORT TERM RENTAL, SO IT'S NOT PART OF THE POPULATION THAT WE HAVE. 'CAUSE THAT IS A PIECE, [00:45:01] RIGHT? 'CAUSE IT'S NOT JUST THAT NEW PEOPLE BEAR THE COST, RIGHT? IT, THERE IS SOME DEGREE OF SPREAD STILL THAT PULLS FROM OUR GENERAL FUND. IT'S RIGHT THERE. . GO FOR IT. BARBARA. GO, BARBARA , WHAT DO YOU GOT FOR ME? SO TO THE EXCLUSION OF THOSE, I WANT TO EXPLAIN ONE THING THAT YOU'RE NOT EXCLUDING THE, THE HOME ITSELF. WHAT YOU'RE, WHAT THEY'RE EXCLUDING IS THERE'S NOT A WAY TO QUANTIFY IF SOMEBODY'S DOING A VACATION RENTAL OR IT'S A RETIREMENT HOME, IT'S HARDER TO QUANTIFY HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE DRIVING THAT IMPACT. AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE EXCLUDING. THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY EXCLUDING THE HOUSING STOCK ITSELF. THEY'RE EXCLUDING IT FROM THE CALCULATIONS OF THE HOUSEHOLD SIZE. AND I AGREE WITH YOU THAT THERE, THERE SHOULD BE A WAY TO MEASURE THAT IMPACT BECAUSE SHORT TERM RENTALS IN REALITY, LIKE WHEN YOU THINK ANECDOTALLY THEY SHOULD HAVE A LARGER IMPACT THAN THREE PEOPLE LIVING IN A HOME VERSUS SIX PEOPLE RENTING IT OVER AND OVER AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S GOT TO BE A DIFFERENTIAL AND IMPACT. BUT WHERE THAT'S BEING EXCLUDED IS JUST IN THE CALCULATION OF HOUSEHOLD SIZE. NOT, NOT ACTUALLY LIKE EXCLUDED. LIKE YOU WOULD STILL HAVE TO PAY THE FEES. AND IT'S STILL PART OF IT, IT IT'S JUST HARD TO QUANTIFY WHAT A HOUSEHOLD SIZE IS WHEN IT'S A SHORT TERM RENTAL OR A VACATION HOME. LIKE A VACATION HOME. DO YOU SAY LIKE HALF A PERSON IF IT'S ONE GUY'S VACATION HOME OR, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S THE PIECE THAT'S BEING EXCLUDED. BUT I COULDN'T AGREE MORE THAT SHORT TERM RENTALS ARE SOMETHING THAT PROBABLY HAVE A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON OUR INFRASTRUCTURE AND POLICE SERVICES, NOT MAYBE AS MUCH PARKS, BUT, UM, I AGREE THAT THE LEAGUE WOULD PROBABLY BE A GREAT PLACE FOR THAT. BUT I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT Y'ALL UNDERSTOOD WHAT'S BEING EXCLUDED TO THAT, TO THAT, TO THAT KATHY, TO THAT BARBARA IS, IF WE WERE, IF WE WERE GOING TO REVISIT THE LAND USE ASSUMPTIONS, IS COULD THAT QUESTION BE ADDRESSED IN, IN THAT PROCESS? COULD AT ALL? I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE IS A WAY TO, SO THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING. IS THERE A WAY TO, I DON'T KNOW THAT I CAN ANSWER THAT BECAUSE I AM NOT SURE WHAT THE LEGAL FRAMEWORK WOULD BE. MM-HMM. AROUND ADDRESSING SHORT TERM RENTALS VERSUS REGULAR RESIDENTIAL AND MULTIFAMILY. I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY A QUESTION FOR SOMEONE WITH MORE OF A LEGAL BACKGROUND IN DEVELOPMENT FEES, UM, THEN COULD PROBABLY HELP. BUT I'M GUESSING THAT'S PROBABLY EVEN A, A MORE LIKE, HOW IS THAT GOVERNED AT THE STATE LEVEL AND WOULD THEY BE LIKE, OH, HARD PASS. YOU DON'T GET TO DO THAT. THAT IS SORT OF WHERE I WAS STARTING MY ASSUMPTION FROM WAS THAT THAT'S THE LEGAL RESPONSE, BUT I WASN'T SURE WHICH IS WHY I ASKED IT. 'CAUSE MAYBE WE'RE MISSING THE, THE THE ENTRY POINT, BUT OKAY, THANK YOU. DID YOU WANT, MONIQUE, DID YOU WANNA ADD ANYTHING? UH, MAYOR, COUNSELORS? UH, I THINK THAT IT WOULD JUST DEPEND ON THE DATA. I THINK IF THERE ARE REPORTS OUT THERE THAT BEN MIGHT KNOW ABOUT THAT, THAT CLEARLY SHOW THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON AVERAGE IN SHORT TERM RENTALS OF VARIOUS SQUARE FOOTAGE, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT COULD BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT. I SIMPLY DON'T KNOW IF THE DATA IS AVAILABLE OR IF REPORTS HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED. OKAY. CAN I JUST COMMENT? SURE. WHERE THERE'S A WILL, THERE'S A WAY, AND THIS IS, THIS IS NOT HARD TO MAKE SOME REASONABLE ASSUMPTIONS AND IT'S NOT FOR US TO FIGURE OUT, RIGHT? I MEAN, LIKE LITERALLY THE STATE HAS TO LEGISLATE THE ABILITY FOR US TO CONSIDER THE IMPACT OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS. ALL WE CAN DO IS ASK THEM TO DO IT, BUT IF THEY DON'T AND TO FIGURE OUT HOW THEY HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING ALL THESE YEARS. SO SORRY, WELL, MAYBE WE'RE THE FIRST ONES TO GO. HEY, WAIT A SECOND. SO I HEAR MELISSA, DID YOU WANT TO, AND, AND, UM, MAYOR COUNCIL COUNCILORS, ONE OTHER THING I I MIGHT ADD TOO IS THAT THE, UM, THE DIFF FEES ONLY PLAY AS YOU KNOW, FOR NEW DEVELOPMENTS. AND, AND WE'D ALREADY DISCUSSED THAT THERE MIGHT NOT BE A LOT OF NEW SHORT TERM RENTALS COMING IN, SO THAT MIGHT FURTHER, UH, REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF DATA THAT'S AVAILABLE. OKAY. I HAVE A QUESTION ON THAT. YEAH. OKAY. DO WE HAVE ANY FLEXIBILITY ON THE, ON THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN A HOUSEHOLD? I MEAN, WE'RE USING A FORMULA. IS THAT MANDATED IN STATUTE? THAT'S THAT FORMULA. THAT'S THE QUESTION. BUT HOW DO YOU REGULATE IT IF YOU COULD? WELL, LET'S GET THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION. IF I, HOLD ON. YOU HAVE TO [00:50:01] BE ABLE TO PROVE THAT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, THE HOUSEHOLD SAYS LIKE HOW YOU ARRIVE AT THAT HOUSEHOLD SIZE. SO I, THERE'S PROBABLY SOME WIGGLE ROOM, HOWEVER, I'M NOT SURE THAT THERE ARE ANY SOURCES OF DATA THAT WOULD SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGE THAT IS ASSUMPTIONS THAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT THAN THE PALMS. UM, AND I, AND THAT'S PROBABLY THE MOST ACCURATE INFORMATION BECAUSE IT IS LIKE MICRO DATA. IT'S NOT AT LIKE A BIGGER LEVEL WHERE YOU'RE SAYING NATIONALLY YOUR AVERAGE HOME OF 2000 SQUARE FOOT HAS X, Y, Z, IT'S ACTUALLY SMALLER LIKE CHUNKS OF THE CITY. I MEAN THE CITY, THE COUNTRY. AND IN FACT, UM, SEDONA SITS WITHIN TWO OF THE COMMS AREAS. SO THERE'S TWO SETS OF DATA THAT ARE USED TO DE TO DETERMINE OUR AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD SIZES AT THOSE DIFFERENT LEVELS. SO WHILE I WOULD SAY THERE'S PROBABLY SOME OF THEIR METHODOLOGY, I'M NOT SURE, AND I WOULD DEFER TO BEN ON THIS, BUT I I'M NOT SURE THAT IT WOULD MAKE A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE IN THE HOUSEHOLD SIZE ASSUMPTIONS. AND MY, AND THAT YOU WANT FOLLOW UP COMMENT TO THAT SHE'S CORRECT. IS THAT, UM, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE IT'S LEGALLY DEFENSIBLE BECAUSE OF COURSE, UM, THESE ARE WATCHED CAREFULLY AND WERE HEAVILY, UM, UM, THERE WERE, MY UNDERSTANDING IS IN ARIZONA WHEN THESE AUTHORITIES WERE CREATED FOR, UM, CITIES TO BE ABLE TO ESTABLISH IF, UM, THERE WERE LEGISLATIVE WORK GROUPS THAT HAD ALL KINDS OF STAKEHOLDERS AND DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY AT THE TABLE TO CRAFT THE STATUTORY, UM, METHODOLOGY. AND THEN THERE'S BEEN OTHER, UH, THERE'S BEEN COURT CASES THAT HAVE DECIDED WHETHER OR NOT, UM, CERTAIN DATA SETS WERE OKAY TO USE OR NOT USE, THAT TYPE OF THING. AND SO IF WE GO OUT ON A LIMB AND TRY SOMETHING NEW, UM, THERE'S JUST ALWAYS THE CHANCE THAT WE'LL BE CHALLENGED AND THESE TYPES OF DATA HAVE ALREADY BEEN PROVEN AS ALLOWABLE TO BE USED FOR THE HOUSEHOLD SIZE. UM, SO THAT'S JUST A CONSIDERATION IS THAT WHEN WE GO OUTSIDE OF WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN ESTABLISHED AS USABLE DATA SETS, THAT WE COULD RISK A CHALLENGE. I I WOULD LIKE THE BEN TO WEIGH IN ON THIS POSSIBLE, NOT TONIGHT, BUT GIVE US THAT INFORMATION BEFORE OUR NEXT MEETING JUST SO WE KNOW WHO WEIGH IN. BEN. BEN, THANK YOU. OKAY, LET'S MOVE ON. GOOD, MELISSA. SO FIRST, FIRST I HAVE, UM, A QUESTION AND IN OUR LAST MEETING, ONE OF THE ITEMS WE ALSO DISCUSSED WERE ADUS AND ADUS CAN BE, UM, NEW HOUSES THAT ARE PLACED ON LAND WITH AN EXISTING STRUCTURE ALREADY. I'M ASSUMING THAT BECAUSE THERE ARE NEW STRUCTURES, SOME FORMULA WILL APPLY ABOUT THIS FEE TO THE BUILDING OF THIS NEW STRUCTURE. MY, MY MEMORY SEEMS TO SAY IT'S CONSIDERED JUST LIKE AN ADDITION TO THE CURRENT SQUARE FOOTAGE. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, THAT I'M REMEMBERING THIS CORRECTLY. YES, COUNCILMAN, EXCUSE ME. UH, YES, YOU DO REMEMBER THAT CORRECTLY. UH, THE, IT WOULD BE, UH, TAKEN THE SQUARE, EXTRA SQUARE FOOTAGE WOULD BE TAKEN INTO EFFECT ADDED TO THE EXISTING, PUT INTO THE FEE SCHEDULE AND IF IT BUMPS IT INTO A HIGH, WHATEVER THAT DIFFERENCE IS BETWEEN, UH, THE TOTAL AND WHAT WAS ALREADY PAID IS WHAT WOULD GET PAID THROUGH THE DIFF FEES, WHICH SHOULD BE THEORETICALLY, UM, A SMALLER PERCENTAGE THAN IF IT WERE CONSIDERED A NEW HOME. IS THAT THAT CORRECT? 'CAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'RE SORT OF LOOKING AT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT ALREADY EXISTS AND YOU'RE ADDING SQUARE FOOTAGE TO IT, WHICH EVEN IF IT CROSSOVER RIGHT, THE AMOUNT IS ACTUALLY SMALLER THAN IF IT WERE BRAND NEW. CORRECT. OKAY. SO I I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT I REMEMBER THAT BEFORE COMMENTING. SO, UM, I UNDERSTAND THIS CONVERSATION AROUND, UM, BOY, IT'D BE GREAT IF WE COULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT, BUT I'M NOT SURE WE CAN. I THINK THAT THAT IS A STATE LEGISLATIVE ISSUE WHICH WE CAN BRING UP, UM, TO THE LEAGUE OR TO WHOMEVER, BUT I DON'T THINK WE CAN, WE CAN DO ANYTHING ABOUT THAT AT OUR LEVEL. HOWEVER, I DO WANNA POINT OUT ON DIGA THAT THE WORD ITSELF IS AN ACRONYM FOR DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVES AND GUIDELINES FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING. SO WHEN WE START TO TALK ABOUT HOUSING THAT'S NOT AFFORDABLE HOUSING BY THE DEFINITION, BUT WE [00:55:01] WANT THESE INCENTIVES TO IMPLY THEN THAT IS NOT THE DEFINITION OF THIS WORD. UM, AND WE, WE ARE ACTUALLY ASKING STAFF, I THINK, TO GIVE US YET A NEW POLICY FORMATION, UH, AND FORMULA THAN THE DIGGA BY THE DEFINITION OF WHAT THE DIGGA IS OF IT IN AND OF ITSELF FROM WHAT I'M HEARING ON, ON THE COUNCIL. AND SO I, I THINK IF THAT'S THE DIRECTION WE WANNA GIVE STAFF, THEN LET'S BE VERY CLEAR THAT WE'RE NOT ASKING YOU TO CHANGE OUR AFFORDABLE HOUSING GUIDELINES, BUT WE WANT SOME ADDITIONAL GUIDELINES IF THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR ON MULTIFAMILY, IN CASE THEY'RE NOT AFFORDABLE BY DEFINITION. AND THERE IS, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A FEDERAL DEFINITION OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING AS WELL. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I I THINK WE NEED TO DISENTANGLE THESE TWO THINGS AND BE CLEAR ABOUT THE FACT THAT IF YOU'RE AT MARKET RATE AND YOU'RE NOT QUOTE WITHIN THE AFFORDABLE PRICE, THEN THIS ISN'T THE DIGA, IT'S SOMETHING ELSE. AND SO I I JUST WOULD LIKE TO LAY THAT OUT FOR US TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT. WE WANT NOT, NOT SAYING WE SHOULDN'T DO IT OR ASK STAFF TO COME BACK TO US, BUT TO SAY, I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE DIGGER. I THINK IT'S SOMETHING ELSE. THANK YOU MELISSA. VICE MAYOR. I, I, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I I THINK THE DIGGER IS PERMISSIVE ON MARKET RATE. IF THERE'S SOME AFFORDABILITY AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN IT THAT'S IN THE DIGGER RIGHT NOW. SO IT IS PERHAPS WE NEED A HOUSING POLICY GENERAL BIGGER AND THAT WAY WE COULD ACCOUNT FOR VARIOUS AND A SUNDRY SIZES, SHAPES DIVERSITY AND, AND LOOK AT WHAT WE WANNA INCENTIVIZE. AND I THINK THE COMMUNITY PLAN IS A GOOD PLACE TO START. 'CAUSE WE JUST APPROVED IT AND I DON'T THINK THAT OUR POLICIES MATCH IT. EXACTLY. SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. I, UM, I'M VERY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH ALL OF THIS. I'VE SAID THIS EVERY SINGLE MEETING WHERE WE'VE DISCUSSED IT. I'M STILL UNCOMFORTABLE WITH IT. AND, UH, WHEN, WHAT IS THE TIMEFRAME THAT WE'RE GOING TO ACTUALLY DECIDE WHAT PERCENTAGE OR THE FEES, THE FEE STRUCTURE AT THE A HUNDRED PERCENT OR LESS PERCENTAGE THAT WE ARE GOING TO APPROVE THE DIFF FEES. SO, UM, IF THERE IS A MAJORITY TONIGHT ON THAT TOPIC, WE WOULD PREPARE THE INFORMATION AND PUBLISH IT AGAIN THAT THIS WOULD BE THE FEE AND BRING IT BACK TO YOU ON JANUARY 14TH FOR YOUR ADOPTION. THAT'S WHAT IS ON THE CURRENT SCHEDULE. THE EARLIEST THE FEE COULD BE EFFECTIVE IS MARCH 31ST. UM, I SEE. GIVEN THE SCHEDULE RIGHT HERE. YES. SO IF, UM, I'M, I'LL HAVE TO LOOK BACK AT BEN'S NOTES TO ME ON, UM, IF WE, I THINK THERE'S TIME FOR ANOTHER DISCUSSION IN THE WINDOW OF, UM, DEADLINES UNDER THE STATE LAW. IF YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT IT AGAIN ON THE 10TH IS, I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT DECEMBER 10TH THAT OUR LAST MEETING WOULD STILL BE WITHIN THE CORRECT TIMEFRAME, RIGHT? CORRECT. I I DON'T KNOW IF NOBODY HAS SAID THIS, BUT I GUESS I'LL SAY IT. I'M NOT GOING TO VOTE TO INCREASE THE FEES AT THE LEVEL THAT IS BEING PROPOSED. OKAY, DEREK? UM, I WANT TO ECHO MELISSA'S COMMENT THAT THESE ARE SEPARATE ISSUES. UM, SOMEBODY WHO'S GOING TO BE LOOKING AT DOING MARKET RATE MULTIFAMILY, I DON'T THINK IS GONNA LOOK IN THE DIG. SO I MEAN, IF WE WANT TO SAY, IF WE WANT TO GET OUT THERE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WILL CONSIDER ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS, THEN THE DIGGA IS REALLY NOT THE PLACE TO DO IT. UM, THE OTHER THING I WOULD ADD IS DO WE WANT TO PUT THAT IN THE DIGGA SO THAT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE LOOKING AT AFFORDABLE HOUSING, DO WE WANNA PLANT THE SEED IN THEIR HEAD THAT, THAT WE MIGHT BE WILLING TO PAY THE DEVELOPMENT FEES ON NON AFFORDABLE HOUSING? YOU KNOW, SO I I'M NOT SURE THERE'S NECESSARILY ANY HARM IN INCLUDING IT, BUT I DO THINK IT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED SOMEWHERE OTHER THAN IN THE DIGA IF WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT, AND I'M WITH PETE, IF SOMEBODY, IF THERE'S MARKET RATE MULTIFAMILY, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT CAN USE THAT. I MEAN, WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT, [01:00:01] UH, AFFORDABLE HOUSING. WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE CITY WHO MAKE, YOU KNOW, DECENT AMOUNT OF MONEY AND STILL CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE. UH, BUT IF THEY COULD GET A MULTI-FAMILY MARKET RATE UNIT, MAYBE THEY CUT. SO I'M WITH YOU. I THINK WE NEED TO ENCOURAGE IT, BUT, UH, I THINK WE NEED TO ADDRESS THESE SEPARATELY, PETE. YEAH, I, I MEAN I CONCUR AND THAT WAS WHY MY EARLIER COMMENT ABOUT BEING BROADER AND LOOKING OUTSIDE THE DIGA, THAT'S WHAT THAT WAS ALL ABOUT. UM, BUT I AGREE WITH, UH, COUNCILLOR FAV THAT THE CHANGE THAT WE'VE GOT LOOKING AT TONIGHT THAT'S WITHIN THE DIGA IS A GOOD CHANGE. I, I THINK THAT'S A DIRECTION THAT I WOULD BE LOOKING FOR, ESPECIALLY FOR PROJECTS THAT FALL IN THE DIGA AND ARE FALL WITHIN THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING GUIDELINES AND CARRY THE WHOLE RECOGNIZED, THERE'S AN ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN FOR DECLARING YOURSELF A A U AND BEING INSIDE THE DIGGA, YOU HAVE TO COLLECT INCOME AND SHOW THAT PEOPLE ARE MEETING STUFF, RIGHT? THERE'S IT'S COST. SO, BUT THAT'S ALL GOOD STUFF. THE DIGGA IS A WELL INTENDED, ALTHOUGH NOT SUPER EFFECTIVE, BUT WELL INTENDED. AND I THINK THIS IS A GOOD CHANGE. YOU KNOW, I, I WOULD LOVE IT IF WE HAD THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY OUT HERE TODAY ROOTING US ON TO SAY, PLEASE DO THIS. AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER WE'VE SHOPPED THIS LANGUAGE OUTSIDE OF OUR BUILDING TO GIVE US SOME HINTS ABOUT WHETHER THIS WAS GONNA BE A SUCCESSFUL CHANGE OR NOT. I CERTAINLY WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT. I WOULD LOVE TO, YOU KNOW, FOR STAFF TO GET OUT THERE AND TO TALK TO PEOPLE AND IF NOTHING ELSE, LET THEM KNOW THAT WE'RE MAKING THIS KIND OF CHANGE AND, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS, AND IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A GOOD THING, BUT I I, I'M SUPPORTIVE THIS CHANGE NOW I'M SUPPORTIVE OF LOOKING BROADLY BEYOND THE DIG AS WELL, KATHY. SO WE HAD AN EXTENSIVE DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS LAST TIME. UM, AND I'M NOT MORE COMFORTABLE NOW THAN I WAS THEN. AND PART OF THIS GOES BACK FOR ME TO THE ORIGINAL LAND USE ASSUMPTIONS THAT WE'VE AGREED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH FOR BRINGING THIS UP. SO I THINK THAT, AND NOW NEW QUESTIONS HAVE COME UP EVEN TONIGHT THAT I THINK ALSO HAVE A COMPONENT THAT GOES BACK TO THE LAND USE ASSUMPTIONS. SO I MEAN, IN MY MIND, WE'RE NOT READY TO DO THIS, RIGHT? I THINK, I THINK ME PERSONALLY, UM, I I I, OKAY, I HAD A QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED, UM, THAT WAS, THAT I ASKED IN MY MEETING WITH THE CITY MANAGER AND THE ANSWER CAME BACK VIA EMAIL AND I WANT TO CLARIFY THE ANSWER AND, AND GET IT ON THE RECORD AS WELL. IF WE, IF WE DON'T RAISE FEES AND WE JUST KEEP WITH WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT? WHEN ON JANUARY 14TH WHEN IT COMES FORWARD, IF, IF WE DID THAT, WHAT WOULD BE THE SOONEST, NOT THE LATEST, BUT THE SOONEST THAT WE COULD START THIS PROCESS OVER WITHOUT INTERRUPTING THE PROCESS THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY IN ON THIS SCHEDULE. SO DO WE NEED TO WAIT TWO YEARS? DO WE NEED TO WAIT A YEAR? OR HOW, HOW COULD WE, BECAUSE I DO THINK, I THINK THE PROBLEM FOR ME, SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS SHOULD HAPPEN IN THE LAND USE ASSUMPTIONS, DISCUSSIONS THAT I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE ON A BROADER BASIS. SO, SO COULD YOU, ANNETTE, WOULD YOU MIND JUST LETTING US ALL KNOW THAT? SURE. THANK YOU COUNCILOR KINSELLA. MAYOR COUNCIL. UM, MY UNDERSTANDING AND ASKING THE QUESTION OF OUR CONSULTANT IS THAT, UM, EVERY FIVE YEARS YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO A FRESH CALCULATION AND DETERMINE THE NEW FEE. IF YOU DON'T TAKE ANY, WHATEVER ACTION YOU TAKE, THEN YOU CAN REVISIT THE FEE EARLIER THAN ANOTHER FIVE YEARS, BUT YOU'RE LIMITED TO INCREASING IT BY 5%, THAT THE ONLY TIME YOU CAN DO A FULL RECALCULATION OF THE FEE IS AT THAT FIVE YEAR WINDOW. SO IF, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU DID NOT ADOPT ANY CHANGE TO THE FEE AS PART OF THIS PROCESS, THE MOST, YOU COULD INCREASE IT BETWEEN NOW AND, UM, THE NEXT FIVE YEAR REVIEW WOULD BE 5% AND THAT WOULD BE A 5% ACROSS THE BOARD BASED ON THE LAND USE ASSUMPTIONS THAT WE HAVE ADOPTED IN THE IMPACT FEE. UM, I THINK IT WOULD BE 5% ABOVE OUR CURRENT FEE FOR E. OKAY. UM, NOT, NOT, WOULDN'T, CATEGORY WOULDN'T, BECAUSE YOU WOULDN'T BE ADOPTING ANYTHING IN THIS NEW FEE. SO THE, UM, OR EVEN IF YOU ADOPTED THE NEW FEE, YOU COULD REVISIT IT AND ADD ANOTHER 5% DOWN THE ROAD. IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE ANYTHING YOU GUYS WOULD BE INTERESTED IN BECAUSE YOU WOULD'VE IMPLEMENTED THE FULL FEE, BUT, UM, [01:05:01] THE ONLY TIME YOU CAN DO A FULL RECALCULATION IS AT THE FIVE YEAR MARK. UM, SO YOUR OPTIONS ARE, UM, IF YOU WANTED TO GO BACK AND CHANGE THE LAND, USE ASSUMPTIONS AND SEE IF THAT CREATES A DIFFERENT FEE, ULTIMATELY, UM, YOU COULD RESTART THIS PROCESS WHEN WE GO BACK TO WHERE WE WERE ON JUNE ONE WITH STARTING THE PUBLIC NOTIFICATION AND HAVE THE CONSULTANT PREPARE THE NEW LAND USE ASSUMPTIONS AND GO THROUGH THE ADOPTION PROCESS AGAIN. UM, YOU COULD CHOOSE TO STAY WITH THE CURRENT FEE, YOU COULD CHOOSE TO IMPLEMENT A PORTION OF THE NEW RECOMMENDED FEE. UM, SO YOU DO, THOSE ARE PRETTY MUCH YOUR OPTIONS. THE DIGA LANGUAGE IS INDEPENDENT OF ANY OF THOSE. RIGHT. SO THAT WOULD APPLY REGARDLESS OF WHICH FEE AMOUNT YOU, YOU PICKED VICE MAYOR, UH, MONIQUE, THIS QUESTION FOR MONIQUE WASN'T DONE. I'M JUST READING OUR, UH, AGENDA BILL AND IT'S, I I DON'T THINK WE CAN VOTE. IT SAYS PUBLIC HEARING DISCUSSION AND DIRECTION ONLY. RIGHT? RIGHT. BECAUSE WE NEED TO PREPARE AND PUBLISH WHAT I SAID ON, I JUST SAID IT ON JANUARY 14TH. NO, I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT YOU. OH, WAS IT? I'M SORRY, . THAT'S ANOTHER QUESTION I HAD ASKED ANNETTE, WHAT, WHEN CAN WE VOTE? AND SHE SAID WE COULD VOTE TONIGHT. WELL, YOU CAN GIVE DIRECTION TO US TONIGHT ON WHAT? THAT'S RIGHT. SO THE MAJORITY SAYS THIS IS THE FEE WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH AND WE COME BACK TO YOU WITH THE DOCUMENTS FOR YOU TO ADOPT AT THE JANUARY MEETING. GOT IT. THANK YOU. SO THAT'S, THAT'S TONIGHT. OKAY. WE GO BACK TO, ARE THIS ON THE SAME POINT, BRIAN? NO, NOT REALLY. OKAY. OKAY. SO GO AHEAD KATHY. OKAY. SO, OKAY. SO THAT LAST PART WAS WELL SAID, BECAUSE FOR ME, I'M NOT, I'M NOT COMFORTABLE IN GIVING DIRECTION TONIGHT. I'M NOT COMFORTABLE IN MOVING FORWARD WITH WHAT WE HAVE. UM, SO I WANNA GET THAT PART OUT THERE FIRST. UM, IT'S ABOUT STARTING OVER OR NOT, YOU KNOW, IN A WAY, UM, GO BACK TO JUNE 1ST OR JUST, UM, BECAUSE IT'S FIVE YEARS, IT'S FIVE YEARS TILL WE CAN REALLY LOOK AT IT. IF WE DON'T, IF WE DON'T DELAY THIS AND THEN SAY WE DON'T LIKE IT, LET'S START OVER, THEN WE'RE NOT GONNA CHANGE ANYTHING SIGNIFICANTLY. WE CAN BY 5%, BUT THAT'S INCREASES ONLY, WHICH DOESN'T ADJUST CATEGORIES. SO IT DOESN'T REALLY ACCOMPLISH, I THINK WHAT WE, I THINK WE WERE LOOKING AT, THE CONVERSATION I HEARD LAST TIME INDICATED THAT WE WERE LOOKING AT SOME MORE WHOLESALE CHANGES. SO I'M NOT COMFORTABLE MOVING FORWARD WITH IT THE WAY IT IS. UM, SO THAT'S WHERE THAT IS FOR NOW. THE OTHER THING IS, I STILL, I'M GOING BACK TO THE OTHER POINT JUST TO WRAP UP MY COMMENTS, WHICH I STILL FEEL THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE WILL CHANGE TO A MAY BECAUSE SO MUCH OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IN THE DIGGA, OUTSIDE THE DIGGA, WHATEVER WE TALK ABOUT CASE BY CASE. AND, AND THEN I THINK WE HAVE LANGUAGE TO ME THAT DOES NOT FLOW WITH THAT AND INDICATE, SO I, I WOULD BE MORE COMFORTABLE. IT'S NOT A HUGE POINT BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THAT IT FACTORS IN THE, IF WE'RE APPLYING THIS, THEN WE WILL, BUT I STILL THINK THAT THE PROPER LANGUAGE IN THAT, I KNOW THIS IS PRETTY SEMANTIC, BUT SHOULD BE MAY INSTEAD OF WILL. I'M JUST VERY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE WORD WILL SHALL IN MOST CASES. SO I, THAT'S MY OTHER COMMENT. THANK YOU. OKAY. BRIAN, YOU HAD WHAT TO SAY? THANK YOU, MAYOR. I'M NOT SURE WE'RE GONNA HAVE GREAT COMFORT OVER THIS AT ANY POINT, RIGHT? HONESTLY, UM, THE NOTION OF REVISITING THE LAND USE ASSUMPTIONS, I DON'T THINK THAT'S REALLY A LEVER THAT WE CAN PULL WHEN THE DAY IS DONE. I THINK IF ANYTHING, IT'S TO SAY, GEE, INSTEAD OF US THINKING THAT WE'RE GONNA SPEND, YOU KNOW, OR THAT WE NEED, YOU KNOW, 50 MILLION OR A HUNDRED MILLION OVER X AMOUNT OF TIME, WE CAN SHORT, WE CAN REDUCE WHAT WE THINK WE'RE GOING TO SPEND AND THEN THAT WOULD REDUCE THE FEES. BUT THE ACTUAL, YOU KNOW, THIS IS HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE ASSOCIATED WITH EACH TYPE OF STRUCTURE. THERE'S NO ASSUMPTION BEHIND THAT PIECE. THAT IS, THAT THAT'S OUT OF A BOOK, ESSENTIALLY. SO I'M NOT SURE THAT, I DON'T KNOW THAT A START OVER DOES ANYTHING FOR US. I'M NOT OPPOSED TO IT. I JUST DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S GONNA DO ANYTHING FOR US. RIGHT. UM, THE OTHER THOUGHT IS, IS, YOU KNOW, VICE MAYOR, YOU EXPRESSED CONCERN ABOUT THE LEVEL OF FEE AND THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT SHOULD BE A PERCENTAGE OF THAT. I, I'M NOT OPPOSED, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHY EITHER THAT WE WOULD DO THAT. BECAUSE IF WE DO, THEN WE'RE BASICALLY HAVING THE REST OF THE CITY BUDGET SUBSIDIZE WHAT WE'RE GONNA PULL OFF OF NEW DEVELOPMENT. AND DO WE ACTUALLY WANT TO [01:10:01] DO THAT? LIKE, KIND OF AT FIRST GLANCE, I KIND OF THINK NO, BUT, BUT AT THE SAME TOKEN, I STILL GET IT. THESE FEES ARE OBNOXIOUSLY HIGH, RIGHT? AND THAT, AND THEREIN LIES THE RUB. SO, UM, THAT'S WHY I THINK, LIKE, YOU KNOW, I'LL HOLD MY NOSE AND SAY THIS IS OKAY, AND I'M WILLING TO MOVE FORWARD AS LONG AS WE MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T, UH, STOP MULTIFAMILY FROM HAVING OPPORTUNITY TO, TO PARTICIPATE THROUGH THE DIGA OR THROUGH OTHER MEANS. THAT'S, THAT'S MY 2 CENTS. AGAIN, I REALLY APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION AND THE QUESTIONS AND THE POINTS. SO IT'S LIKE NOT, NOT TRYING TO OPPOSE OR ARGUE FOR THE SPORT, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? SO, THANK YOU MAYOR. OKAY, ALYSSA. SO TO, TO ADDRESS THE FEES QUESTION, UM, I, I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH BRIAN. WE, WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THE FEES ARE MEANT TO, TO DEFRAY COSTS THAT ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO INCREASE THE COSTS OF A POLICE OFFICER IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO INCREASE. IF WE GET MORE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY, WE MIGHT NEED MORE POLICE OFFICERS. SO THAT'S AN ADDITIONAL SALARY THAT HAS TO COME OUT OF THE BUDGET. WE HAVE TO MAINTAIN OUR ROADS. UM, IF A NEW DEVELOPMENT GOES IN, SOMEONE'S GONNA BUILD THOSE ROADS, LET ALONE MAINTAIN THOSE ROADS. AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE USING OUR PARKS AND WE NEED TO MAINTAIN THEM AND WE WANNA KEEP THEM CLEAN. AND WE WANNA DO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WANT A NEW PARK. UM, WE WANNA PUT SOME GREEN SPACE UP IN, UM, UPTOWN. ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE COSTS TO THE COMMUNITY, RIGHT? THE TAXPAYERS ARE PAYING FOR THAT OUT OF OUR BUDGET. AND THIS IS SUPPOSED TO HELP DEFRAY THE COSTS OF THOSE SPECIFIC AREAS. NOT EVERY AREA, BUT THOSE SPECIFIC AREAS. AND SO, YOU KNOW, ARE THEY THE RIGHT NUMBER? I, I DON'T KNOW. SHOULD THEY BE LESS? I DON'T KNOW. BUT I KNOW THE OTHER COSTS ARE NOT GONNA REMAIN CONSTANT. THEY ARE GOING TO GO UP. AND SO AS WE ADD MORE BUILDINGS AND WE ADD MORE PEOPLE, WE'RE GOING TO ADD MORE PRESSURE AGAINST THOSE PARTICULAR RESOURCES. AND SO THIS IS ABOUT HELPING DEFRAY THE COST. OR ARE WE WILLING TO SAY OUR BUDGET IS GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE THE MONEY FROM SOMETHING ELSE? THERE ARE PROJECTS WE WILL NOT DO IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN DEFRAY THE COST OF THOSE PARTICULAR AREAS. AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY THE CONVERSATION WHEN YOU START TO TALK ABOUT THE DOLLAR AMOUNTS. AND SO, UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT NUMBER IS, BUT I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO INCREASE THE NUMBER. 'CAUSE OUR COSTS ARE GONNA CONTINUE TO INCREASE. THANK YOU. VICE MAYOR. UH, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT WE'VE BEEN SUBSIDIZING THIS FOREVER. WE'D SUBSIDIZE WITH SALES TAX, WHICH IS 70, EITHER 77% OR 80% PAID BY TOURISTS. I'M, I'M NOT, I'M OKAY WITH THAT. UH, AND, UH, MANY OTHER, WE, WE ASKED FOR, UH, A REVIEW OF CITIES AND TOWNS AROUND US. FLAGSTAFF DOESN'T PAY FOR ALL OF THESE THINGS FROM THEIR DIFF FEES. AND A LOT OF OTHER COMMUNITIES DON'T EVEN HAVE DIFF FEES. SO THERE'S DIFFERENT APPROACHES. AND I WISH WE WOULD'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT FIRST BEFORE WE STARTED INTO THE DETAILS OF THE LAND USE ASSUMPTIONS TO GET OUR THINKING ABOUT WHAT POLICY WE WANT. NOW WE'RE HERE WHERE WE ARE, AND WE NEVER REALLY CAME TO A, UH, A MAJORITY ON COUNCIL SAYING HOW WE WANTED TO APPROACH THIS. AND NOW WE'RE DOING IT AT THE END INSTEAD OF IT THE BEGINNING. UH, AND WE'VE LEARNED, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME FOR ALL OF US, MAYBE NOT THE MAYOR, BUT FOR THE REST OF US, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS PROCESS. I DON'T, AGAIN, WE'VE LEARNED A LOT THROUGH THE PROCESS THAT WE DIDN'T KNOW AT THE START OF THE PROCESS. AND IT'S JUST MADE ME MORE AND MORE UNCOMFORTABLE AS WE'VE GONE ON. UH, SO I, I I'M WILLING TO SUBSIDIZE SOME OF THIS WITH GENERAL FUND AS WE HAVE BEEN DOING IN THE PAST AND AS MANY OTHER COMMUNITIES IN OUR AREAS ARE, ARE DOING OKAY. CAN I, OH, I'M SORRY. THANK YOU. SO I'M ALL OVER THE PLACE. . OH YEAH, I KNOW THE MICS ARE DOWN BECAUSE IT WAS A PROBLEM BUTTON PROBLEM TODAY. SO, UM, TO LOOK, I THINK IT WAS COUNCIL FOLTZ WHO SAID, WELL LOOK TO THE STATE FOR SOME CHANGE. I'M NOT OPTIMISTIC THAT EVER HAPPENING. IT'S JUST I WOULD, I WISH THAT THEY WOULD LISTEN TO US ON A LOT OF THINGS. THEY LISTEN TO US WITH ALL THE BILLS THAT COME BEFORE THEM, CLOSE TO A THOUSAND OR MORE BILLS. I'M NOT OPTIMISTIC. SO I'M NOT LOOKING TO SEE THAT THAT WOULD HAPPEN. I'M NOT OPTIMISTIC. YES, OUR FEES ARE HIGH, BUT I REALLY APPRECIATE BARBARA'S COMMENTS [01:15:01] AT THE LAST MEETING. WHEN WE ARE EQUATING APPLES AND ORANGES FROM ONE TOWN TO THE OTHER, UH, I BELIEVE THERE WAS A COMPARISON SOMEWHERE. AND NO TWO CITIES ARE ALIKE. WE DON'T HAVE A PROPERTY TAX. LIKE THE VICE MAYOR SAID, TOURISTS ARE PAYING 77 OR SOMEWHAT PERCENT. THAT'S A GREAT THING. RESIDENTS ARE ALWAYS SAYING, WELL, WHAT IS TOURISM GETTING ME? THAT'S ONE GREAT ITEM. ONE OF MANY ITEMS THAT THE TOURISTS ARE HELPING TO SUPPLEMENT. BUT HOW DO WE COME UP WITH THIS APPLES TO ORANGES TO BENEFIT EVERYBODY ELSE? I, I WOULD THINK WE LEAN MORE TOWARD THAT WHERE WE CAN. UM, WE TALKED ABOUT THE HOW SHORT TERM RENTALS, THE IMPACTS THAT SHORT TERM RENTALS HAVE ON OUR HOMES. I HAVE, I LIVE ON A CUL-DE-SAC, DEAD END. DEPENDS ON HOW YOU LOOK AT MY STREET. I HAVE THREE SHORT TERM RENTALS AT MY, THE END OF MY DEAD END. I'M SEEING CARS ALL WEEKEND LONG GOING BACK AND FORTH TO THOSE HOUSES MY NEIGHBORS ONCE OR TWICE A DAY. I DON'T SEE US BEING ABLE TO DIFFERENTIATE FOR A NEW, UH, POSSIBLE SHORT-TERM RENTAL, UH, NEW A MORE, UH, YOU KNOW, FOURPLEX, QUAD QUADPLEX OR UH, OR A TRIPLEX. I DON'T KNOW HOW WE WOULD DO THAT. SO AGAIN, I'M ALL OVER THE PLACE. UM, I LIKE THE IDEA OF A CASE BY CASE DECISION, THAT'S FINE. BUT I'M IN THE SAME PLACE WITH THE VICE MAYOR AS I DON'T WANNA RAISE THE FEES. I, THE WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED. I COULD SEE RAISING UP TO SOME DEGREE TO, UH, MATCH. LIKE, UH, MELISSA SAID, OUR POLICE ARE ALWAYS GOING UP, SALARIES ARE GOING UP. WE WANNA BE COMPETITIVE ROAD ROADS. THE COST OF DOING A ROAD ARE ALWAYS GOING UP. SO THESE THINGS ARE GONNA BE A CONSTANT, WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING. AND IF WE COULD DO IT AS A MIXTURE, I'D BE FINE. MIXTURE WITH SALES TAX AND RAISE THE FEES PROPORTIONATELY, WHATEVER THAT TURNED OUT TO BE, I COULD BE OKAY WITH THAT, BUT CERTAINLY NOT. UM, TOO HIGH. I HAD A CONSTITUENT CALL ME TODAY AND SAY, I'M A REALTOR, REALTOR OF TOWN. I KNOW WHO SHE IS. AND SHE WAS, SHE WORKS, I KNOW HER. HER FIRM WORKS WITH LONG-TERM RENTALS AND SHORT-TERM RENTALS. AND SHE SAYS, I WANNA BUILD A HOUSE. I WANNA FINALLY MOVE HERE. 'CAUSE I'M OUTSIDE THE CITY. I'M AFRAID THAT I WON'T BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO BUILD. AND THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WE WANNA ENCOURAGE PEOPLE WHO WANNA LIVE HERE. ARE WE PUTTING THEM OUT IN SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER? I DON'T WANNA PUT PEOPLE, KEEP THOSE PEOPLE OUT. I WANT PEOPLE TO RETIRE HERE. LIKE MOST OF US. DEREK CANNOT RETIRE YET. YOU WILL BE SOMETIME SOON WHEN I DIE. RIGHT. BUT WE ALL, YEAH, YOU'RE NOT RETIRED, BUT CLOSE. YOU'RE ALMOST THERE. THANK YOU. SO, BUT, SO WHILE WE'RE ALL CONCERNED ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING, EVERY ONE OF US HERE, I'M ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT RETIREES MOVING HERE, AS I'M SURE MOST OF YOU, IF NOT ALL OF YOU ARE. SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT ANSWER IS, EXCEPT MAYBE JUST A MIXTURE OF THE FEES. PETE, CAN YOU HELP ME WITH THAT? UH, YES, BUT MAYBE NOT IN THE DIRECTION THAT YOU WANTED TO GO. . OH, THERE YOU GO. I WAS GONNA SUPPORT, SHE RECOGNIZED ME, ME, I'M NOT SURPRISED , BUT IT'S A MIXED BAG. THE WHOLE THING. YOU KNOW, WE, WE MENTIONED EARLIER TODAY THAT SALES TAX GET PAID BY 78 OR 80%, UH, FROM OUR VISITORS. AND I, I WOULD BET THAT THE DIFF FEES ALSO GET LARGELY PAID BY PEOPLE WHO AREN'T OUR RESIDENTS. THEY'RE INVESTORS, REALLY IN THE COMMUNITY. AND SO, YOU KNOW, AND IF WE, ALTHOUGH I'M VERY SYMPATHETIC TO THE IDEA THAT OUR FEES ARE HIGH, I THINK THE FEES ARE ALSO DRIVEN QUITE LARGELY BY THE PROJECTS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO PRODUCE OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS. IS THAT NOT CORRECT? CORRECT. ONE PORTION OF THE CALCULATION IS THE INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN, WHICH IS THE LIST OF PROJECTS THAT ARE ELIGIBLE FOR DIFF UM, AND THAT ARE RELATED TO OUR PLANNING ADOPTED PLANS FOR SIMS. AND THAT'S A LARGE PART OF THE PATHWAYS THIS CALCULATION. PATHWAYS, PARKS DEVELOPMENT. CORRECT. THAT'S [01:20:01] THE OTHER HALF OF THE EQUATION BESIDES THE HOUSEHOLD SIDE. AND THESE DEVELOPMENT FEES DON'T ACTUALLY PAY FOR ALL OF PROJECTS. IT'S JUST AN ELEMENT OF HOW WE END UP PAYING FOR IT. AND SO IF WE TAKE SOME ACTION TO LOWER THESE FEES, THAT MONEY HAS TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE. IT COMES BACK TO THE, WELL, EITHER THE MONEY COMES FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE. THERE'S NOT A LOT. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A HISTORY OF ON UNALLOCATED IN FUNDS EVERY YEAR. YOU KNOW, IT KIND OF GROWS, BUT THERE'S NO GUARANTEE ABOUT THAT, RIGHT? THERE'S NO INFLATION PROTECTED PROPERTY TAX SOURCE OF REVENUE THAT WE HAVE IN THIS CITY. IT'S ALL SALES TAXES. AND SALES TAXES CAN GO DOWN AT A MOMENT'S NOTICE. I MEAN, WE JUST DON'T KNOW. AND SO EITHER, YOU KNOW, WE RELY ON THE GAMBLE THAT SALES TAXES WILL CONTINUE TO RISE, OR WE DEFER PROJECTS. WE SCHEDULE 'EM OUT FURTHER IN TIME. AND I HAVEN'T HEARD MUCH ENERGY FROM COUNCIL ABOUT WAITING ON THESE PROJECTS IF WE'RE GONNA LOWER DEVELOPMENT FEES. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I I I WANTED TO JUST THROW THOSE TRUTHS OUT THERE INTO THIS ARGUMENT. KATHY, ONE JUST, I JUST WANTED TO MENTION TO YOU, RELATIVE TO THE LANGUAGE MM-HMM. THAT WE'VE GOT IN HERE, THAT CURRENTLY THE DIGGER IS KIND OF MISWORDED AND SAYS WE WILL WAIVE OR DEFER FOR A, UH, AHUS, RIGHT? AND SO NOW WE'RE JUST CHANGING LANGUAGE TO WE WILL PAY. THAT'S THE SAME WORDS. IT'S JUST MORE LEGALLY CORRECT. AND IF WE PUT THE MAY IN THERE, WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING BACKWARDS IN THE DIGGA SAYING WHAT WE WILL OR WE WON'T DO FOR AHUS. SO I JUST, OKAY. IT'S A SEMANTIC. I JUST, RIGHT. I GET YOUR POINT. AND I EVEN THINK I SAID THAT MYSELF. I UNDERSTAND IT BECAUSE OF THE, IT SAYS IF IT'S BEING APPLIED, BUT I STILL AM MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THE WORD MAY INSTEAD OF WILL. I DO NOT LIKE TO DIRECTIVE. UH, I LIKE THE, BECAUSE WE'RE ALL ABOUT THE CASE BY CASE. HOW ABOUT COULD, BUT, UH, I THINK THE LANG LEGAL LANGUAGE GOES, MAY SHALL WILLER, BUT, OH, POP, POP, POP. THAT'S LEGAL STUFF. . OKAY, GOOD. GO AHEAD. RIGHT. MONIQUE IS GOING. NO . I KNOW. UM, SO THIS IS PERHAPS ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING CONVERSATIONS I THINK THAT I'VE EVER BEEN A PART OF UP HERE, BECAUSE EVERYBODY, NOBODY'S DUG IN. EVERYBODY'S REALLY LISTENING, YOU KNOW, TO EACH OTHER. THERE'S A LOT OF, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS OUT THERE. I THINK THIS IS REALLY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE WORKING UP HERE AT THE MOMENT TRYING TO COME TO SOME ANSWER. A VERY UNCOMFORTABLE TOPIC. VERY UNCOMFORTABLE TOPIC. AND TO ME, I I, IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED TOPIC. MM-HMM . AND FOR ME, I JUST TRIED TO BREAK IT DOWN. WHAT IS THE SIMPLE POINT OF THIS COMPLICATED TOPIC? AND FOR ME IT'S THAT, AND I'M GONNA USE, UM, MY ESTEEMED COUNSELOR OF THE BEST VOCABULARY OVER THERE THAT THE, TO ME, THE ASSUMPTIONS THAT WE WENT WITH LED TO THE FEES BEING OBNOXIOUSLY HIGH YOUR WORDS, RIGHT? UM, THE FEES ARE JUST TOO HIGH. WE NEED A SPECTRUM OF HOUSING IN SEDONA. AND I THINK THAT THE, THE, THE FEES THE WAY THEY ARE, ARE A DISCOURAGEMENT TO SOME OF THAT. UM, I THINK THAT THAT'S, AGAIN, A POLICY ISSUE. WE NEED TO KNOW HOW DO WE BREAK IT DOWN? WHAT DO WE ADDRESS? BUT WHAT DO WE CONSIDER CATEGORY A, B, C? TO ME, MAYBE I'M CONFLATING SOME OF THIS, BUT TO ME, SOME OF THAT WENT BACK WITH THE LAND USE ASSUMPTIONS, HOW YOU PUT POPULATION INTO THE LAND USE ASSUMPTION. I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT COMPONENT. I AGREE THAT WE SHOULD ASK THE STATE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE LEAGUE TO TAKE THIS FORWARD TO THE STATE. I ALSO SHARE THAT. I'M NOT HOPEFUL THAT IT'LL BE LISTENED TO, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO GO ON RECORD MAKING, MAKING THE ASK AND POINTING THIS OUT. 'CAUSE IT'S, IT'S A BIG DEAL. IT'S A BIG DEAL. IT'S YET ANOTHER IMPACT OF SHORT TERM RENTALS THAT, YOU KNOW, IS NOT BEING CONSIDERED. BUT AGAIN, IT GOES BACK TO THAT. I THINK THE FEES AS THE RESULT OF THE FORMULA WE USED ARE TOO HIGH. SO I HEARD A COUPLE OF PEOPLE, I DON'T REMEMBER WHO, BUT I HEARD A COUPLE OF PEOPLE SAY, WELL, MAYBE A PORTION OF THE PROPOSED FEES, A PERCENTAGE, WHAT? NOBODY THREW OUT A NUMBER. LIKE WE HAVE A NUMBER THAT'S IN FRONT OF US FOR IT TO BE RAISED. BUT IF WE WERE GONNA BE LOOKING AT A PORTION OF THAT, WHO'S WILLING TO THROW THAT OUT ON THE TABLE NOW TO SAY, WHAT SHOULD IT BE? 50% OF WHAT'S PROPOSED? SHOULD IT BE 70? SHOULD IT BE 10? I, I HAVEN'T HEARD THAT FROM ANYBODY. SO THAT IS MY, YOU COULD BE CHALLENGE OF THE MOMENT. NO, TO THE COLLEAGUES WHO BROUGHT IT UP. I'M, I'M LOOKING, I'M LOOKING AT Y'ALL, DEREK. UM, WE MAY HAVE MOVED ON FROM THIS, BUT I DO WANT TO SAY THAT I'M OPPOSED TO RESTARTING THE PROCESS. UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT COST US TO HAVE THE CONSULTANT COME IN AND DO ALL THESE REPORTS AND RUN ALL THESE NUMBERS, BUT A LOT. A LOT, A LOT. YEAH. SO IF WE RESTART THAT PROCESS, I ASSUME WE PAY THOSE FEES AGAIN. AND I NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN DOING THAT. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THEY ARE, DON'T KNOW THAT I REALLY WANT TO, UM, [01:25:01] BUT THIS DECISION'S NOT GONNA GET MORE COMFORTABLE BY PUSHING IT OFF. UM, TO ANSWER KATHY'S QUESTION, GO HALFWAY, HALFWAY BETWEEN WHAT THEY ARE NOW AND WHAT THEY'RE, I DON'T KNOW. BUT ULTIMATELY THE MONEY HAS TO, THE MONEY'S GOTTA COME FROM SOMEWHERE. AND I KNOW THAT PEOPLE LOOK IN THE NEWSPAPER AND THEY SAY, OH, THESE FEES ARE OBSCENE AND OH MY GOD, OKAY. BUT IT'S EITHER DIFF FEES OR RESIDENTS OR, I MEAN, THE MONEY COMES FROM SOMEWHERE. UM, SO ARE THEY HIGH? YEAH. BUT LIKE, UH, BARBARA SAID WE DON'T HAVE A SALES TAX. UH, WE DON'T HAVE PROPERTY TAX. I AM SORRY, PROPERTY TAX. THAT'S NOT, THANK GOD WE HAVE A SALES TAX. ABSOLUTELY. HAVE A SALES TAX. WE DON'T HAVE A PROPERTY TAX. SO YEAH, IT'S APPLES TO ORANGES. AND YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT WE LOOK TO WHAT OTHER CITIES ARE DOING AND, YOU KNOW, TO TRY TO HELP GUIDE US THAT CAN HELP US. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO DO WHAT'S THE RIGHT THING FOR OUR CITY. AND THIS IS SEDONA. WE'RE DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER CITY IN THE STATE. AND THAT'S KINDA THE WAY IT IS. SO WHAT'S THE NUMBER? 50% HALFWAY. OKAY. I COULD DO HALFWAY, BUT AGAIN, IF WE ONLY GO HALFWAY, WHERE'S THE REST OF THIS MONEY? WHERE'S THE REST OF THAT MONEY GONNA COME FROM? MY, MY BIGGER POINT IS I DON'T WANT TO PUNT IT DOWN THE ROAD 'CAUSE IT'S NOT GONNA GET EASIER. GO AHEAD TO, TO THAT. SO YES, IF I UNDERSTOOD YOU, ANNETTE, BEFORE CORRECTLY, IF IT WAS 50% OF WHAT'S PROPOSED NOW, AND THEN IN A YEAR YOU COULD, IF THERE'S MONEY, YOU COULD TACK ON ANOTHER 5% AND ANOTHER 5% ON THAT. IT'S AMORTIZING, RIGHT? AM I PRONOUNCING THAT RIGHT? UM, I CAN'T TELL YOU . IT'S ONE OF MY, IT'S A NEW YORK THING OF CHALLENGES, RIGHT? I THINK SO. UM, SO UNTIL WE DID A REVIEW, WHICH WOULD NOT, ONCE WE PASS THIS, THE CLOCK STARTS IN JANUARY, SO YOU HAVE TO WAIT FIVE YEARS BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING REALLY SUBSTANTIVE TO IT. UH, SO IF IT WAS 50%, YOU'D THEN BE RAISING 5% ON THAT, WHICH BRINGS IT TO, AND THEN 5% ON THAT ESCALATED AMOUNT. SO WE'RE, WE'RE STUCK THERE FOR, FOR FIVE YEARS. BUT I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WAS CLEAR. CORRECT. OKAY. THANK YOU PETE. BUMP, UNTIL I TURNED TO MY RIGHT, YOU WOULD BE MAKING THAT DECISION ON THE FUTURE, 5% INCREASE AT THAT TIME. YOU WOULDN'T BE MAKING IT AS PART OF THIS. YOU WOULD IMPOSE THE WHATEVER IT'S GOING TO BE, UM, IN JANUARY. AND THEN EACH YEAR WHEN YOU'RE DOING LIKE THE CONSOLIDATED FEE SCHEDULE OR WHATEVER, YOU WOULD HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THAT 5% ADJUSTMENT. YOU COULD CERTAINLY INDICATE, UM, THAT WOULD BE THE INTENTION, BUT I BELIEVE THAT WOULD BE A SEPARATE DECISION OF THE COUNCIL IN THAT YEAR TO MAKE THE 5% ADJUSTMENT. IS THE 5% ANNUALLY OR IS IT JUST ONE TIME DURING THE FIVE YEAR PERIOD? NO, UM, YOU CAN REVISIT THE DIFF FEES ANYTIME IN THAT FIVE YEAR WINDOW, BUT YOU ARE LIMITED TO INCREASING THEM BY 5%. UM, WITH, AND THEN YOU ONLY GET TO DO THE FULL RECALCULATION OF THE, OF THE FEE ITSELF EVERY FIVE YEARS. SO LET ME JUST DOUBLE CHECK THAT IT'S NOT A ONE TIME 5%. AND MAKE SURE THAT THE CONCEPT YOU RAISED ABOUT A 5% ANNUAL IS ALLOWED. SO I'LL DOUBLE CHECK. NOT ONE OF QUESTION. CAN WE SET, CAN WE SAY THESE ARE WHAT THE FEES ARE GONNA BE, HOWEVER MANY A FEW YEARS OUT SET? LIKE LET'S SAY WE ADOPTED THESE NUMBERS LIKE A PHASE IN SCHEDULE. CAN YOU PHASE IN? I DID. SO INSTEAD OF GOING FROM, YOU KNOW, TERRIBLE FEES TO OBSCENE FEES, THERE'S A SOMETHING IN BETWEEN. WE'LL GET TO THE FULL IMPLEMENTATION ON X DATE. YES, YOU CAN DO THAT. WE, WE COULD DECIDE THAT OUT FRONT SO IT DOESN'T HAVE TO GO, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THEY ARE, THEY DON'T HAVE TO ALL GO UP IN YEAR ONE. COULD WE DO THAT OVER A YES. MY UNDERSTANDING IS YES. I HAD HAD THAT AS AN OPTION EARLIER IN THE, UM, AGENDA PACKETS AND BEN'S REVIEWED ALL THAT. SOMETHING ABOUT YOU CAN DO A PHASE IN PETE, YOU KNOW, THE INTEREST THAT I'M REALLY TRYING TO DRIVE HERE IS HOUSING. AND I THINK WE ALREADY HAVE A COMMITMENT TO DO TO, FOR US TO, ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS THROUGH THE DIGA OR OTHERWISE IN A LARGER SENSE, WHEN STAFF HAS A CHANCE TO BRING THAT BACK TO, TO FIGURE OUT HOW MULTIFAMILY HOUSING MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT STUFF COULD CONTINUE TO MOVE AND MAYBE NOT BE SUBJECT TO THE FEES. I DON'T WANT TO CALL THE FEES. OUTRAGEOUS, WHAT'S THE WORD? OBSCENE. OBSCENE. THAT'S THE TOP. IF YOU DON'T WANT OBSCENE FEES, THEN DO LESS PROJECTS IN THE FUTURE. BUT, AND NONE OF US WANT TO DO THAT. WE WANT THE PROJECTS THAT WE'VE GOT SCHEDULED. SO I'M SUPPORTIVE OF THE HUN THE, THE FEE SCHEDULE THAT WE'VE [01:30:01] GOT. I WOULD BE OPEN TO A PHASE IN PERHAPS, I MEAN, BUT STILL IT'S INCUMBENT UPON US TO TALK ABOUT WHERE THE MONEY'S GONNA COME FROM OR STRETCHING OUT THE PROJECT DEADLINES IF WE'RE GONNA REDUCE THE FEE SCHEDULE. AND I HAVEN'T HEARD THAT CONVERSATION YET AMONGST ANYBODY. AND I, I DON'T WANNA HAVE THAT. I I'VE LOOKED AT THOSE PROJECTS AND THOSE ARE PROJECTS THAT US AND OUR RESIDENTS AND STAKEHOLDERS ARE CONSTITUENTS WANT. AND WE WANTED THEM FOR YEARS AND THEY, THEY'RE COSTLY AND THEY TAKE A LONG TIME. BUT THAT'S THE SCHEDULE OF ACTIVITY THAT WE'VE SAID AND THAT'S WHAT DRIVES THE FEES. SO I'M SUPPORTIVE OF THE A HUNDRED, A HUNDRED PERCENT THE, THE FEE SCHEDULE AS IT IS WITH THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT MULTIFAMILY HOUSING. I WOULD JUST SAY THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO STRETCH OUT THE PROJECTS THEY STRETCH OUT THEMSELVES. GO AND LOOK AT A 10 YEAR SERIOUSLY. MAYBE WE'LL DO THIS NE WHEN WE HAVE OUR RETREAT. IT'LL BE, UM, IT WILL, IT WILL BE HELPFUL. WE NEVER SPEND THE MONEY AND, AND YOU SHOULD LOOK AT HOW MUCH EACH YEAR WE DON'T SPEND BECAUSE IT WOULD MORE THAN COVER , I BELIEVE. AND I THINK WE SHOULD DO THAT ANALYSIS BEFORE WE DECIDE WHAT PERCENTAGE WE OF THESE FEES THAT WE WANT. BECAUSE IT MAKES ASSUMPTIONS THAT I THINK ARE NOT MM-HMM. REALIZED IN, YOU KNOW, IN REALITY. SO THAT'S WHY I SAID THE LAST TIME THAT I DON'T THINK WE WOULD BE REDUCING OUR LEVEL OF SERVICE. I THINK WE, WE, WE JUST CAN'T, FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS, SPEND ALL THE MONEY THAT WE ALLOCATE EVERY YEAR. AND SO THEY GET DEFERRED. THEY GET DEFERRED FOR ANY NUMBER OF VALID REASONS. AND SO WE ARE, I THINK A CAPITAL PROJECT ANALYSIS, WHICH IS WHAT I HAD REQUESTED WE DO AT THE RETREAT, WOULD BE HELPFUL AND INFORMATIVE. AND I THINK YOU'LL FIND WE WON'T BE PUSHING THEM OUT ANY FURTHER THAN THEY WOULD ALREADY GO. SO THAT'S PART OF MY THINKING ALONG THESE LINES. ANY OTHER, OH, I'M SORRY. I THINK THAT RAISES A REALLY GOOD POINT ABOUT THE TIMING OF THE CONVERSATION. SO IT'S GOOD THAT OUR RETREAT IS COMING IN DECEMBER, BUT OUR BUT THIS DECISION WILL BE MADE IN JANUARY BECAUSE I DO THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. I THREW OUT THE CHALLENGE TO COME UP WITH A PERCENTAGE AND THANK YOU FOR RISING TO THAT CHALLENGE, DEREK. UH, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, BECAUSE EVERY YEAR WE GO THROUGH, OH, THERE'S THIS UNENDED FUNDS, SO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO PUT THEM TOWARD THIS YEAR AND THAT YEAR? AND THEN, YOU KNOW, AND WE, BUT WE ARE EXPECTING LAST YEAR WHEN WE DID THAT EXERCISE, WE HAD A PROJECTION OF A SMALLER AMOUNT OF SURPLUS FOR THIS NEXT TIME THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE DOING IT, WHICH WE'LL START HAVING THAT CONVERSATION NOW AT, AT THE, AT THE RETREAT. AND THEN WE'LL DO IT IN THE SUMMER WHEN WE DO THE BUDGET. UM, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, WE PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HAVE THE PERCENTAGE, THE PERCENTAGE QUESTION IS PROBABLY BEST ANSWERED AFTER WE KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY DO WE NEED? YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU JUST RAISE MONEY BECAUSE YOU CAN TO STOCK PILOT IT TO KEEP PUTTING IT IN IN THE BANK, OR DO YOU SPEND THE MONEY RAISE ONLY WHAT YOU NEED BECAUSE OF THE PROJECTS THAT YOU KNOW YOU WANNA FUND? UM, YEAH, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE THAT DECISION TONIGHT. POINT IS WE CAN MAKE THAT FINAL DECISION IN, IN JANUARY, BUT I THINK THAT THAT'S A PROBABLY THE DIRECTION IN WHICH I'M HEADING. ANY OTHER FINAL THOUGHTS? MELISSA? I, SO MY EXPERIENCE SO FAR SITTING ON COUNCIL IS WE MOVE CAPITAL PROJECTS BECAUSE OF WHATEVER REASON WE CAN'T GET THE RESOURCES OR, YOU KNOW, WE GET HALF OF IT DONE, BUT THEN THE PEOPLE HAVE TO GO DO SOMETHING ELSE. WHATEVER IT IS, WE DEFER IT, WE MOVE IT ALONG TO, TO THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR OR WHATEVER IT IS. HOWEVER, ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THAT, I HAVE SEEN QUITE A FEW REQUESTS COME IN FOR US TO HAVE MORE MONEY PUT TOWARDS A PROJECT BECAUSE THE COSTS HAVE GONE UP. MM-HMM. . AND SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO SAY LET'S PROJECT OUT INTO THE FUTURE, WOW, THAT IS ONE MIGHTY, I'M SORRY, IT'S NOT REALLY CRYSTAL BALL, IT'S KIND OF MORE LIKE A CRAZY EIGHT BALL, RIGHT? UM, CLOUDY THE FUTURE IS, AND, AND I THINK THAT I, [01:35:01] I THINK IT'S SIMPLISTIC FOR US TO THINK THAT IF THEY GIVE ME A REVIEW OF ALL THE CAPITAL PROJECTS AND THEY TELL ME WHAT THOSE COSTS WILL BE, THAT I DON'T THINK THAT'S GONNA BE THE COST, UM, BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE SITTING ON COUNCIL. AND SO YOU ALSO, I THINK YOU WANNA HAVE A LITTLE BIT, EVERYBODY IN THEIR HOUSEHOLD BUDGET EVEN WANTS TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT EXTRA BECAUSE WHAT IF SOME, SOME OPPORTUNITY PRESENTS ITSELF AND YOU WOULD LIKE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT, BUT NOW YOU DON'T HAVE THE FUNDS TO DO THAT WITHOUT SAYING, WELL, WHAT ARE WE GONNA GET RID OF IN ORDER FOR US TO DO THIS? SO I, I THINK, I'M NOT AT THIS POINT REALLY ARGUING ABOUT FEES OR THE NOT FEES, BUT I THINK THAT THE WHOLE POINT OF THESE FEES WERE TO ALLOW US TO HAVE THAT LITTLE BIT OF CUSHION WHEN THEY HAVE TO COME BACK TO US WITH A CHANGE ORDER OR WHEN THEY HAVE TO SAY, UM, YOU KNOW, THE PROJECT ITSELF HAS COMPLETELY CHANGED OR THERE'S THIS OPPORTUNITY THAT WE COULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF. UM, SO I THINK THAT'S THE THING ABOUT THE FEES. I THINK, I THINK NO ONE'S EVER GONNA BE COMFORTABLE WITH THESE FEES IN THE SENSE OF IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF MONEY, UM, WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO BUILD A SMALL HOME IN PARTICULAR. IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF MONEY, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW HE CAN CHANGE THESE CATEGORIES 'CAUSE IT'S BASED ON SQUARE FOOTAGE TO NUMBER OF PEOPLE. AND THAT IS BRIAN HAS, HAS POINTED OUT MORE THAN ONCE AND BRIAN HAS POINTED OUT MORE, OR BARBARA'S POINTED OUT MORE THAN ONCE. WE, WE CAN'T FIX THAT. AND AS I'VE HEARD HERE, WE CAN'T NECESSARILY DEFEND THAT. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE CAN DO A PHASE IN AND SAY, HEY, WE THINK THIS IS ACTUALLY GOING TO BE THE RIGHT NUMBER THREE YEARS FROM NOW OR WHATEVER, AND LET'S PHASE IT IN 50% NOW AND THEN 25 AND THEN 25 TO GET TO THE OBNOXIOUS NUMBER. I, I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO, I THINK IT'S JUST NOT SIMPLE. IT ISN'T THAT EASY. I DON'T THINK UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE COST OF CAPITAL PROJECTS ARE GOING TO BE, THE IMPACT OF THEM, THE ORDERING OF THEM. IT JUST SEEMS TO ME IN MY, IN MY TWO YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, THIS IS COMPLICATED IN THIS CITY. MM-HMM. . SO MY LITTLE BULLY. OKAY. I THINK WE'VE ALL, BRIAN, YOU, YOU HAVE THANK YOU MAYOR AND UH, THANK YOU COUNCILOR KINSELLA FOR REMINDING ME TO PUT THE POST-IT NOTE BACK ON MY LAPTOP SAYING TRY TO BE LESS QUOTABLE . SO I LET OBNOXIOUS SLIP OUT APPARENTLY. OKAY. UM, VICE MAYOR, I THINK YOU BROUGHT UP A VERY INTERESTING CONSIDERATION ABOUT, OKAY, WE NEVER ACTUALLY DO EVERYTHING WE PLAN THAT'S ON THE CIP SIDE, ON THE POLICE SIDE. DO WE DO EVERYTHING THAT WE PLAN TO DO? I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE WE DO MORE IN THAT REGARD OR ON PARKS. MAYBE WE DO. I I DON'T KNOW IF THE QUESTION YOU RAISE IS APPLICABLE ACROSS ALL THREE CATEGORIES THAT BUILD UP IN THE DIFF BUT I THINK IT'S A VERY INTERESTING QUESTION. AND IN ANY CASE, AND IF, YOU KNOW, IF WE COULD SEE THAT THERE WAS A PERPETUAL, HEY, WE ALWAYS UNDERSPEND BY 10% OR 20%, EH, YOU MIGHT GET ME TO ARGUE, OR YOU MIGHT GET ME TO, TO GO ALONG WITH TAKING 10% OFF OF THE PROPOSED FINAL FEE HERE. BUT ABSENT THAT DATA, I'M IN THE COUNSELOR FURMAN CATEGORY OF THIS STUFF'S ALL GONNA THIS'S ALL STUFF THAT WE WANT TO GET DONE. AND I'M, I'M AT A HUNDRED PERCENT UNTIL I SEE SOME INTERESTING DATA ALONG THE VICE MAYOR'S, UH, ARGUMENT THAT SAYS, OKAY, YEAH, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE COULD, WE COULD REASONABLY RATCHET IT BACK SOME. SO THAT'S WHERE I'M AT. OKAY. ANNETTE, DO YOU HAVE DIRECTION TODAY? THE DIRECTION? OKAY. I THINK WHAT I AM BRINGING BACK, WELL FIRST OF ALL, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU NEED ANOTHER CONVERSATION ON THE 10TH BEFORE THE JANUARY 14TH ADOPTION DATE. AND I THINK WHAT I'M GONNA PREPARE FOR THAT SINCE, UH, WE'RE ALREADY WORKING ON THAT PACKET AND THE AGENDA'S ALREADY BEEN SET, SO WE'LL GET THAT FIGURED OUT, IS, UM, WHAT WOULD A PHASE IN LOOK LIKE? WHAT WOULD THE ACTUAL DOLLAR AMOUNTS BE? 'CAUSE I DID HEAR, UH, POSSIBLY A MAJORITY SAY A PHASE IN. UM, SO I CAN BRING YOU A FEE SCHEDULE OF WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE, YOU KNOW, 50% YEAR ONE. AND THEN, UH, YOU KNOW, HOW WE WOULD LAY THAT OUT OVER TIME AND WHAT THOSE DOLLAR AMOUNTS WOULD END UP BEING, LIKE, WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE. UM, 'CAUSE I'VE HEARD A COUPLE OF PEOPLE SAY THE WHOLE AMOUNT, I'VE HEARD A COUPLE OF PEOPLE SAY A PHASE IN, I'VE HEARD A COUPLE OF PEOPLE SAY NO INCREASE. SO I DIDN'T HEAR A, SO I FEEL LIKE I HAVE TO BRING BACK OPTIONS AGAIN AND HAVE YOU GUYS TRY TO PICK ONE. [01:40:04] OKAY. OKAY. AND WE'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT. OKAY. I, I HAVE JUST ONE OTHER THING. PLEASE. IF YOU COULD, I'VE LOOKED THROUGH ALL THE PRESENTATIONS THAT WE HAVE AND I CANNOT FIND WHERE WE ACTUALLY, WHERE THERE'S A NUMBER, UH, FOR THE ANNUAL DIFF FEE. I SAW ONE THAT WAS $12 MILLION AND WE WOULD SUBTRACT OPTION ONE, REDUCED IT BY 6 MILLION. OPTION TWO REDUCED IT BY RIGHT, WHICH WAS THE, WHAT IS THE TOTAL DIFF FEE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT COLLECTIONS? LIKE THE TOTAL COLLECTED AND WHAT'S IN THE FUND, RIGHT. AND THAT PIECE. YEAH, BECAUSE HERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, I THINK WE VERBALLY NUMBERS, WHAT IS IT, RIGHT? IF OUR, UH, IF OUR DIFF FEE COLLECTION IS $10 MILLION A YEAR, THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN IF IT'S $50 MILLION A YEAR AS TO WHAT IT'S LIKE LESS THAN A MILLION. YEAH. PARDON ME IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY. IT'S AROUND, IT'S OH, BARBARA'S RAISING HER HAND. I THINK SHE KNOWS THE ANSWER. YEAH, LET'S LET THE FINANCE DIRECTOR ANSWER THAT. . WHEN, WHEN YOU'RE SEEING THAT $12 MILLION, THAT'S OVER THE LIFE OF THE DIFF FEE, IT'S, WELL, IT'S A 10 YEAR SPAN. SO I MEAN, WE COULD CHANGE THE DIFF FEES IN FIVE YEARS. MM-HMM. . BUT IT HOW MUCH WE WOULD COLLECT IN OVER 10 YEARS. SO IT'S NOT LIKE 12 MILLION A YEAR. YOU WOULD HAVE TO DIVIDE THAT BY 10. SO IT'D BE LIKE 1.2 MILLION A YEAR AND OUR, SO IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT QUITE AS LIKE, MASSIVE PER YEAR AS IT APPEARS. AND THE CURRENT DE FUND, I BELIEVE. UM, BEFORE YOU WERE, UM, ON BOARD WITH US, I HAD ASKED RENEE, OUR ACCOUNTING MANAGER THAT QUESTION, AND I FEEL LIKE SHE SENT ME, IT WAS LIKE BETWEEN SIX AND $700,000 A YEAR WE WERE COLLECTING. UM, THAT PUTS A LITTLE DIFFERENT PER PERSPECTIVE ON THE CONVERSATION. YES, IT DOES A CHANGE ORDER. COULDN'T YOU ASK THAT QUESTION TO BEGIN WITH? I, I DID ASK THAT QUESTION. . SHE DID, BUT YEAH. OKAY. ANYWAY, WE, THAT HAS TO BE FACTORED IN, RIGHT? MM-HMM, . OKAY. ALRIGHT. ALL RIGHT. FOR THE NEXT ITEM, WE COULD TAKE A BREAK NOW OR MOVE RIGHT IN. 'CAUSE I TEND TO THINK, AND WE HAVE OUR CONSULTANTS HERE, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE A LENGTHY DISCUSSION. SO ARE YOU GOOD? TAKING A BREAK? OKAY. UH, 6 35, 6 30 BECAUSE THEY'LL PROBABLY BE HERE TILL SEVEN. ALRIGHT, WE'RE BACK ON [8.b. AB 3154 Discussion/possible direction regarding the draft results of the Sedona Homeless Needs Assessment and the development of the draft Strategic Plan to Address Homelessness document, by consultants Jonathan Danforth and Matt White of Viam Advising, LLC. ] GENTLEMEN. HOW ARE YOU? JUST INTRODUCE YOURSELF FOR THE CAMERAS. THANK YOU. UM, JONATHAN DANFORTH FROM VEEAM ADVISING AND MATT WHITE WITH HOUSING INNOVATIONS PARTNERING WITH VM ADVISING. OKAY. JEAN, YOU'RE GONNA START WITH THE PRESENTATION OR? I AM. OKAY. I'M JUST GOING TO BASICALLY GIVE A LITTLE CONTEXT CLOSE TO THE MIC. THE MIC'S A LOWER TODAY. GIVE A LITTLE CONTEXT AND REDUCTION TO, UM, TONIGHT'S PRESENTATION. SO SEVERAL MONTHS AGO, THE CITY, UH, ISSUED AN RFP FOR HOMELESS NEEDS ASSESSMENT AND STRATEGIC PLAN TO ADDRESS HOMELESSNESS. AND BY THE WAY, THANK YOU MAYOR, VICE MAYOR AND COUNSEL FOR HEARING THIS PRESENTATION. UH, VMI ADVISING WAS SELECTED FOR THE PROJECT, AND TODAY WE, UH, WE WILL HEAR FROM OUR CONSULTANTS WHO WILL SHARE THE FIRST STEPS IN THIS PROCESS, THE HOMELESS NEEDS ASSESSMENT. SO I WILL INTRODUCE JONATHAN DANFORTH AND MATT WHITE. THEY ARE THE LEADS ON THIS PROJECT TO ASSESS HOMELESSNESS IN SEDONA AND THE VERDE VALLEY. UM, WE BASICALLY, WE HAVE PLANNED TO BRING THIS WORK PRODUCT, THIS WORK PRODUCT, THE NEEDS ASSESSMENT AND THE STRATEGIC PLAN TO YOU IN TWO DIFFERENT SESSIONS. SO, UM, ONE IS THE ASSESSMENT AND THE ANALYSIS OF THE IMPACT AND THE NEED, AND THEN ALSO THE STRATEGIC PLAN TO ADDRESS HOMELESSNESS. UH, WE REALLY WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT COUNCIL HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A PRESENTATION AND DIGEST EVERYTHING FROM THESE FIRST STEPS, UH, TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE SOME DIRECTION AND GUIDANCE TO THE CONSULTANTS AND TO STAFF, UH, BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY DID YOUR RETREAT. FOR THE, FOR THE COUNCIL PRIORITIES, WHICH IS WHY WE ARE HERE TODAY. [01:45:01] UM, MATT AND JONATHAN WILL BE PRESENTING THE ASSESSMENT FOR DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE DIRECTION ON AN ACTION PLAN AND NEXT STEPS, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU LIKE, WHAT YOU DO NOT LIKE, WHAT YOU HAVE AN APPETITE FOR. AND THEN THAT WILL HELP US REFINE AND PRIORITIZE THE ACTION STEPS AND TIE SOME POTENTIAL DOLLARS TO THOSE STEPS BEFORE WE MOVE TO FINALIZE A PLAN OR DEVELOP AND THEN FINALIZE A PLAN. WE AT LEAST WANTED YOU TO HAVE A CONVERSATION AND PROVIDE THE DATA FOR YOU TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS AT YOUR PRIORITY SETTING RETREAT. SO, AND WITH THAT, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO MATT WHITE AND JONATHAN DANFORTH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, JEANNIE. GOOD EVENING, MAYOR, COUNCIL AND MANAGERS AND, AND ALL THE GUESTS WHO ARE HERE TODAY. UM, WE'RE EXCITED TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION. I KNOW IT'S A TOUGH TOPIC SOMETIMES, AND SO TO HAVE THIS DEDICATED TIME, UH, AT THIS POINT IN THE PROJECT FEELS REALLY APPROPRIATE FOR WHERE WE'RE HEADED. UM, I WANNA THANK THOSE THAT HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE ASSESSMENT THUS FAR AND ACKNOWLEDGE THE CITY OF SEDONA AND THE COMMUNITY OF NON-PROFIT, UH, ORGANIZATIONS, FAITH-BASED ORGANIZATIONS AND GOVERNMENT AGENCIES THAT HAVE HELPED WITH OUR UNDERSTANDING, HELPED US COLLECT DATA, HELPED GATHER QUALITATIVE INFORMATION THUS FAR. TO START THIS CONVERSATION OFF, JUST A QUICK VIEW OF WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT. UM, WE'RE GONNA GIVE A REALLY QUICK INTRODUCTION, GIVE A SUMMARY OF OUR NEEDS ASSESSMENT, AND THEN LEAVE TIME FOR THIS PROCESS TO UNFOLD THROUGH DISCUSSION, UH, THROUGH YOUR, TO YOUR NORMAL PROCESS HERE. SO A LITTLE BIT ABOUT MYSELF IS, I AM THE PRINCIPAL, FOUNDING FOUNDER AND PRINCIPAL CONSULTANT OF VEEAM ADVISING. UM, YOU KNOW, I, IT GOES BACK, UM, TO MY ACADEMIC, MY ACADEMIC BACKGROUND. I STUDIED ECONOMICS IN SCHOOL AND, UM, THAT PAIRED WITH KIND OF LIKE A, A DEGREE I GOT AS A COMPLIMENT TO THAT WAS A PHILOSOPHY DEGREE. I LED ME TO REALLY ENJOY THE CONVERSATION THAT YOU GUYS HAD TODAY. JUST TRACKING YOUR THOUGHT WORK AND DELIBERATING HOW DO WE THINK THROUGH A COMPLEX DECISION. AND, UM, THAT KIND OF THINKING IS, IS EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO NAVIGATE THE WATERS THAT WE'RE IN WITH HOMELESSNESS. UM, THAT'S NOT WHAT QUALIFIES ME HERE AT VIM ADVISING, THOUGH. WHAT QUALIFIES ME IS SPENDING OVER A DECADE PROVIDING HOMELESS SERVICES, DOING STREET OUTREACH AND RUNNING, UH, CONTINUUM OF CARE IN HOUSTON, UH, WHERE WE NAVIGATED SIMILAR DYNAMICS IN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ARE THE RIGHT FUNDING DECISIONS, WHAT ARE THE RIGHT IMPLEMENTATIONS, AND HOW DO WE ACTUALLY MATERIALIZE THE STRATEGY THAT WE'RE ARRIVING AT. UM, ALLOW MATT TO INTRODUCE HIMSELF AS WELL. THANKS, JONATHAN. UM, I'M AGAIN, MATT WHITE WITH HOUSING INNOVATIONS. I'M BASED IN COLUMBUS, OHIO. I'VE LIVED THERE FOR OVER 25 YEARS. I STARTED WORKING FOR A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION THAT CONSOLIDATED FUNDING FROM LOCAL STATE AND THEN PHILANTHROPIC PARTNERS TO CREATE A SINGLE, UH, FUNDING ENTITY THAT FUNDED HOMELESS SERVICES, UM, IN THE COMMUNITY OF COLUMBUS. IT RESULTED IN SUBSTANTIAL REDUCTIONS IN HOMELESSNESS, AND THAT OPENED THE DOOR THEN TO DO THAT SAME KIND OF WORK IN COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY AS A CONSULTANT. SO I'VE BEEN WORKING FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS IN FOUR STATES, COUNTIES, CITIES, UH, HELPING TO BOTH UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF HOMELESSNESS AND ORGANIZE A SET OF INTERVENTIONS AND PROJECTS AND PROGRAMS THAT ARE ALIGNED WELL WITH THE COMMUNITY, THEIR INTEREST IN ADDRESSING HOMELESSNESS. UH, AND IT LOOKS DIFFERENT IN EVERY COMMUNITY. AND WE'RE EAGER TO JUMP INTO THE CONVERSATION AROUND WHAT HOMELESSNESS LOOKS LIKE IN SEDONA VERDE VALLEY AND SOME POSSIBLE OPPORTUNITIES TO ADDRESS IT. A LITTLE BIT ABOUT VEEAM ADVISING. UH, VEEAM ADVISING WAS FOUNDED TO TAKE THE LESSONS LEARNED FROM COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL AT ADDRESSING AND REDUCING HOMELESSNESS. UM, I SPENT MOST OF MY CAREER IN WORKING IN HOUSTON WHERE WE'VE REDUCED HOMELESSNESS BY 35,000 HOUSEHOLDS. UM, AND TO UNDERSTAND THIS WORK, THE NAME OF VM ADVISING COMES FROM TWO DIFFERENT TRANSLATIONS. VM IN LATIN MEANS [01:50:01] ROAD OR JOURNEY, AND ARABIC MEANS RAPPORT. AND TO UNDERSTAND THAT WHETHER YOU'RE GETTING OUT OF CRISIS ON AN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL OR ON A COMMUNITY LEVEL, THIS IS A, THIS IS A JOURNEY AND WE HAVE TO DO IT TOGETHER THROUGH THOUGHTFUL DIALOGUE AND INTENTIONAL CHANGE. HAND IT TO MATT TO GIVE US THE INITIAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE EXTENT AND SCOPE OF HOMELESSNESS THAT WE'VE ARRIVED AT FOR THE REGION. AS, AS JEANNIE INDICATED, UH, WHAT INFORMS THE PRODUCT AT THIS STAGE OF THE WORK IS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE EXTENT AND SCOPE OF HOMELESSNESS. WE ALSO WANT TO UNDERSTAND THE CURRENT CONDITIONS IN SEDONA AND THE VERDE VALLEY THAT ARE IMPACTING HOMELESSNESS, AND THAT WOULD THEN INFORM SOME POSSIBLE STRATEGIES THAT WOULD EQUIP THE COMMUNITY TO ACHIEVE THAT OUTCOMES THAT YOU WANT. UH, WE'RE ORGANIZING OUR WORK AROUND AN OUTCOME THAT PREVENTS HOMELESSNESS WHENEVER POSSIBLE AND WHEN IT'S NOT POSSIBLE TO ACCELERATE EXITS OUT OF HOMELESSNESS TO HELP PEOPLE TO RESOLVE THEIR HOUSING CRISIS. SO WE'LL START WITH JUST A PROFILE OF HOMELESSNESS. WE BELIEVE THERE ARE ROUGHLY 600 INDIVIDUAL HOUSEHOLDS OR PERSONS THAT ARE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS DURING THE COURSE OF A YEAR. SO THAT'S AN ANNUALIZED NUMBER IN SEDONA AND VERDE VALLEY. UNFORTUNATELY, WE DON'T HAVE DEFENSIBLE CONCRETE, UM, UH, DATA SOURCES TO DRAW FROM. SO WE HAD TO CREATE THIS NUMBER BASED ON EXISTING DATA THAT, THAT WE STARTED FROM A HOMELESS MANAGEMENT INFORMATION SYSTEM THAT IS REQUIRED ACROSS THE STATE OF ARIZONA AND COLLECTS DATA AT A COUNTY LEVEL. BUT IF WE USED ONLY COUNTY DATA, IT WOULD, UM, IT WOULD NOT DESCRIBE THE UNIQUE NATURE OF SEDONA AND THE VERDE VALLEY. IT WOULD BE TOO BROAD. SO WE HAD TO COMPLIMENT THAT COUNTY LEVEL DATA WITH EXISTING SERVICE, UH, PARTICIPATION FOR PERSONS IN THE SEDONA AND VERDE VALLEY AREA. THERE AREN'T A LOT OF HOMELESS SERVICES FOR PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE IN, SO A SERVICE-BASED ENUMERATION IS CHALLENGING. SO WE WERE ABLE TO TALK TO, UH, PROVIDERS OF FOOD ASSISTANCE, UH, NUTRITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS, FOOD BANKS, UM, AND THEY COLLECT SIGNIFICANT DATA ON THE PARTICIPANTS WHO COME TO THE FOOD ASSISTANCE, UH, PROJECTS ON A REGULAR BASIS. AND THEY TRACK WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMING FROM, WHETHER THEY HAVE A FIXED ADDRESS, UH, AND HOW FREQUENTLY THEY COME BACK. AND BASED ON THAT INFORMATION, WE CAME UP WITH THE, THE NUMBER OF 600, AND THEN TESTED THAT NUMBER IN VARIOUS STAKEHOLDER INTERVIEWS, UM, THROUGHOUT A SITE VISIT WHERE WE WERE TALKING TO HOMELESS ASSISTANCE PROVIDERS WE WERE TALKING TO. UM, UM, MATT, DO YOU WANNA HOLD FOR ONE SECOND? SURE. COUNCIL FULTZ, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO CONFIRM THE APPROXIMATE 600 THAT IS A, AT ANY POINT IN TIME DURING THE YEAR, THERE'S APPROXIMATELY 600 OR OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR AN AN ANNUALIZED NUMBER OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR 600. SO ON AVERAGE, 50 PEOPLE A MONTH IF, IF EACH PERSON STAYED FOR JUST ONE MONTH. MM-HMM. , YES. BUT, UH, WE'LL GET INTO THE STAY PATTERNS. UM, AND THERE ARE QUITE DIFFERENT STATE PATTERNS, BUT YES, 600 OVER THE COURSE OF A YEAR. UM, AND THAT'S VERDE VALLEY WIDE. THAT'S, I JUST WANNA BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT. THAT'S SEDONA AND VERDE VALLEY WIDE. YES. CAN YOU, HOW DO YOU DESCRIBE VERDE VALLEY? WHAT'S, EVERYONE KIND OF TALKS ABOUT IT DIFFERENTLY. SO WHEN YOU SAY VERDE VALLEY, WHAT DO YOU ENCOMPASS IN? WE INCLUDE IN THE REPORT VERY SPECIFIC MAP THAT DESCRIBE THE, FROM THE CITY OF SEDONA TO COTTONWOOD. AND I THINK IT, IN MY MIND, IT SORT OF FORMS A BIT OF A TRIANGLE, UM, FURTHER SOUTH. YEAH. I HAVE A LIST IN ONE OF OUR SLIDES, BUT CAMP DY, UM, RIM ROCK. SO EVERYTHING ON THIS SIDE OF DOMINGUEZ MOUNTAINS IS WHAT THE WAY WE LOOK AT IT. IS THAT, DOES THAT CORRESPOND WITH YOU? YES. GREAT. THANK YOU. OKAY. DO, DO WE HAVE YOUR SLIDES? I DON'T THINK WE HAVE YOUR SLIDES. NO, WE SUBMITTED THE SLIDES. WE DON'T HAVE THEM, SO I'M NOT SURE HOW TO ANSWER THAT. OKAY. JUST CONTINUE ON. MM-HMM, . OKAY. SO WE LOOK AT THAT 600 NUMBER, THAT ANNUALIZED NUMBER DURING THE COURSE OF THE YEAR, 600 PEOPLE, BUT THEY'RE NOT, THEY DON'T ALL HAVE THE SAME STAY PATTERNS. WE APPLY AN EVIDENCE-BASED APPROACH OF LOOKING AT TOPOLOGIES. UM, AND THERE'S A SORT OF SEMINAL RESEARCH DONE BY, UM, A PROFESSOR OUT OF THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA, DENNIS CULHANE. AND THIS HAS BEEN REPLICATED IN COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND THEY FIND VERY SIMILAR RESULTS. SO HOMELESS POPULATIONS TEND TO FIT INTO ONE OF THREE CATEGORIES IN THIS TOPOLOGY. THE FIRST ONE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS ON A TRANSITIONAL BASIS, TYPICALLY, UH, VERY SHORT PERIODS OF HOMELESSNESS. UM, THEY ARE ABLE [01:55:01] TO EITHER SELF RESOLVE OR WITH JUST VERY MINIMAL ASSISTANCE, GET BACK ON THEIR FEET AND THEY INTEGRATE BACK INTO THE COMMUNITY, AND THEY DON'T HAVE SUBSEQUENT STAYS AND OR EXPERIENCES OF HOMELESSNESS AFTER THAT. AND THIS REPRESENTS ABOUT 60% OF THE TOTAL POPULATION, OR ABOUT 360 UNIQUE INDIVIDUALS. THE SECOND GROUP, UM, ARE DESCRIBED AS EPISODIC, NOT JUST ONE TIME HOMELESS, BUT THEY CONTINUE TO COME BACK TO HOMELESSNESS AFTER THEY'VE RESOLVED. SO THEY TEND TO HAVE HIGHER BARRIERS. THERE'S A LIKELY, UH, INCIDENCE OF MENTAL ILLNESS, SOMETIMES SUBSTANCE USE DISORDERS, SOMETIMES CHRONIC HEALTH CONDITIONS THAT EXACERBATE THEIR ABILITY TO RETAIN THEIR HOUSING PLACEMENT ONCE THEY LEAVE HOMELESSNESS. SO THOSE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE SORT OF COMING BACK AND FORTH. UH, THEY'LL, THEY'LL SORT OF RESOLVE TEMPORARILY, UH, THEN THEY'RE BACK ON THE STREETS AGAIN OR BACK ON THE LAND, AND THEN THEY ARE ABLE TO RESOLVE AGAIN. BUT THEY FIND THEMSELVES CONTINUALLY PSYCHING CYCLING THROUGH HOMELESSNESS. THE THIRD GROUP IS WHAT'S REFERRED TO AS CHRONIC, AND THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE LONG-TERM HOMELESS FOR OVER A YEAR, SOMETIMES EXTENDING INTO MULTIPLE YEARS. AND THERE'S ALWAYS A CO-OCCURRING DISABILITY. AND THAT DISABILITY CAN BE A SUBSTANCE USE PROBLEM, IT CAN BE A MENTAL ILLNESS, SOMETIMES IT'S CHRONIC HEALTH CONDITION. AND IN, IN ALL INSTANCES, THE, THE, UH, THE STATE OF BEING HOMELESS EXACERBATES THOSE CHRONIC HEALTH CONDITIONS AND THOSE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH CONDITIONS. BUT THIS REPRESENTS A RELATIVELY SMALL PROPORTION OF THE TOTAL HOMELESS POPULATION. IT'S CHALLENGING THOUGH, BECAUSE THIS IS THE MOST VISIBLE POPULATION. SO ALTHOUGH IT'S ONLY 10% OF THE ENTIRE HOMELESS POPULATION, IT'S WHAT WE TEND TO INTERACT WITH, WHAT WE SEE, IT'S THE MOST VISIBLE PORTION OF THE HOMELESS POPULATION BECAUSE IT'S WHO'S ON THE STREET, IT'S WHO'S PANHANDLING, IT'S WHO'S VISIBLE TO THE PUBLIC, UH, TO THE, THE GENERAL POPULACE ON A REGULAR BASIS. HOLD ON. MATT. BRIAN, THANK YOU. I WAS GONNA ASK ABOUT, UH, HOW YOUR TOPOLOGY INCLUDES DRIFTERS, RIGHT? OPPORTUNISTS, UH, MY HYPOTHESIS IS MUCH OF THE PANHANDLING IS MORE OF THE DRIFTER AND OPPORTUNIST THAN PERHAPS WHAT ACTUALLY FITS INTO YOUR, UH, THREE CATEGORIES THERE. CAN YOU COMMENT AT ALL ABOUT WHAT YOU LEARNED ABOUT THAT CATEGORY OF SO-CALLED HOMELESS PERSON THAT WE WOULD HAVE IN THE VERDE VALLEY? IT'S, IT'S AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION. UM, SO THE TOPOLOGY, UH, THAT'S BEEN REPLICATED IN MULTIPLE COMMUNITIES IS USING LENGTH OF TIME, HOMELESS, AND NUMBER OF EPISODES OR STAYS OF HOMELESSNESS. THERE ARE BEHAVIORS THAT ARE, THAT ARE ACROSS ALL OF THOSE POPULATIONS THAT INCLUDE DRIFTERS, PAN HANDLERS, PEOPLE WHO ARE FLYING A SIGN, UM, SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE UNSHELTERED IN, IN TEMPORARY STRUCTURES, CAMPS ON THE LAND, OTHER PEOPLE STAYING, UH, IN DOUBLED UP SITUATIONS OR SLEEPING IN CARS. SO THOSE TYPES OF BEHAVIORS ARE EVIDENT ACROSS ALL OF THOSE THREE CATEGORIES. THE THREE CATEGORIES ARE SIMPLY DESCRIBING THE NUMBER OF EPISODES AND THE LENGTH OF TIME THAT PEOPLE EXPERIENCE HOMELESSNESS. THE, THE TOPOLOGY IS USEFUL BECAUSE THE INTERVENTIONS, THE SERVICE STRATEGIES THAT ARE MOST EFFECTIVE OR MOST IMPACTFUL AT ENDING HOMELESSNESS TEND TO BE DIFFERENT AND TEND TO BE SPECIFIC TO EACH OF THOSE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES, DE DESPITE THE BEHAVIORS THAT MIGHT BE PREVALENT IN ACROSS ALL OF THEM. ONE QUESTION. SO EVEN THOUGH THE BEHAVIORS PREVALENT ACROSS ALL, ARE YOU FINDING THOUGH A HIGHER PERCENTAGE IN ONE TIME CATEGORY THAN ANOTHER OF SOME OF THE, AS WE'RE SAYING, SOME OF THE, THE MORE VISIBLE, UH, PEOPLE WHO ARE FLYING SIGNS OR MAYBE OUT THERE ON THE CORNER? IS IT MORE, IS THAT MORE PRESENT IN ONE CATEGORY THAN ANOTHER? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, AND I THINK, UM, I'VE TAKEN TWO POINTS TO THIS ANSWER. ONE IS THAT AS A BEHAVIOR, IT'S NOT EXCLUSIVE TO THE HOMELESS POPULATION. SO I HAVE TO REMEMBER, THERE'S, THERE'S FOLKS WHO ARE HOUSED THAT ENGAGE IN THESE BEHAVIORS TOO. HOWEVER, AS MATT POINTED OUT, UM, THE CHRONICALLY HOMELESS GROUP IS THE MOST VISIBLE AND HAS THE MOST BARRIERS TO MEETING BASIC NEEDS. AND SO WE TEND TO SEE THAT THAT'S WHO WE TEND TO SEE ENGAGED IN THESE ACTIVITIES MORE OFTEN. UM, BUT IT'S, AGAIN, IT'S, IT, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN JUST PIN TO ONE GROUP. THANK YOU. SO WHERE WOULD THE UNHOUSED EMPLOYEES WHO DON'T CHOOSE TO BE, UH, UNHOUSED BUT OR FORCED TO BE UNHOUSED, WHICH COULD BE MORE THAN THREE MONTHS, AND WHERE DO THEY FALL INTO THAT CATEGORY? MM-HMM. , I THINK IF WE GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, IT STARTS TO KIND OF BUILD MORE OF A PICTURE, UH, THE, AND, UH, DESCRIBE THE ATTRIBUTES FOR EACH OF THESE GROUPS THAT MIGHT HELP TO KIND OF BRING THIS, THIS INTO CLEAR FOCUS. THE FIRST GROUP THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THE TRANSITIONALLY HOMELESS. AND AGAIN, THESE [02:00:01] ARE DESCRIBED AS, UM, PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE RECENTLY RE RELOCATED TO THE AREA AND THEN, UH, DUE TO A RELATIONSHIP, UM, THAT THEY'RE SEEKING A JOB THAT THEY'RE HOPING TO GET, UM, JUST A NEW CHANGE IN THEIR LIFE. AND THEN AFTER THEY RELOCATE, THERE'S A ONE TIME CRISIS. IT'S TYPICALLY A FINANCIAL CRISIS, SO THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY FOR RENT. UM, THERE'S A RELATIONSHIP ISSUE, UH, THAT CAUSES STRESS AND THEY FIND THEMSELVES EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS. THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THIS CATEGORY THAT TRANSITIONALLY HOMELESS, ARE AGAIN, HOMELESS FOR JUST A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. THEY HAVE THE EITHER ECONOMIC MEANS OR THE SOCIAL AND FAMILY CONNECTIONS IN THE COMMUNITY TO RESOLVE OR TO RELOCATE TO AN AREA THAT HELPS THEM, UH, STAY STABLY HOUSED. SO YOU DON'T SEE THEM, THEY'RE ONLY HOMELESS FOR A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, AND IT'S TYPICALLY CAUSED BY A ONE-TIME CRISIS. AND THAT THESE ARE PEOPLE IN THE TRANSITIONALLY HOMELESS, UH, CATEGORY. WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT TYPES OF INTERVENTIONS OR SERVICES ARE, UM, ARE MOST IMPACTFUL TO HELP EITHER PREVENT PEOPLE FROM BECOMING TRANSITIONALLY HOMELESS OR ACCELERATING THEIR EXIT OUT OF HOMELESSNESS IN JUST A MOMENT. BUT I WANNA TALK NOW ABOUT THE EPISODIC GROUP. THE EPISODIC GROUP ARE PEOPLE WHO LIKELY START AS TRANSITIONAL. SO THEY HAVE A ONE-TIME CRISIS, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THE SOCIAL AND FAMILY CONNECTIONS. THEY DON'T HAVE THE ECONOMIC SELF-SUFFICIENCY. THEY DON'T HAVE THE SORT OF, UH, EXECUTIVE FUNCTIONING TO MAINTAIN HOUSING. AND SO THEY'RE CONTINUALLY FALLING BACK INTO THAT HOMELESS ENVIRONMENT AGAIN. UM, AND THESE, UH, PEOPLE MAY HAVE BRIEF PERIODS WHERE THEY'RE EMPLOYED, UM, WHERE THERE ARE HIGH FUNCTIONING, BUT THEN UNFORTUNATELY CYCLE BACK INTO HOMELESSNESS. AND THEY OFTEN, UH, WILL BENEFIT FROM MORE INTENSIVE KINDS OF SERVICES TO HELP ADDRESS EITHER THE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH ISSUES OR MORE INTENSE, MORE INTENSIVE, UH, JOB PLACEMENT, JOB COACHING, UM, AND OFTEN FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE IN SOME INTERMEDIATE TERM IS BENEFICIAL TO HELP THESE PEOPLE RESOLVE. THE THIRD CATEGORY AGAIN, ARE THE CHRONIC. UM, AND THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE, UM, BEEN SEDONA OR, OR VERDE VALLEY RESIDENTS OFTEN, UM, FOR THEIR ENTIRE LIFE, UM, AND HAVE ALWAYS STRUGGLED WITH EITHER A BEHAVIORAL HEALTH PROBLEM. UM, THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME ECONOMIC SELF-SUFFICIENCY, SO THEY DON'T HAVE EMPLOYABILITY. UM, AND THEY HAVE BEEN HOMELESS FOR EXTENDED PERIODS OF TIME. UM, SOMETIMES THIS IS THE POPULATION THAT IS LIVING IN ISOLATION OUT IN THE LAND, UM, IN MAKESHIFT STRUCTURES, CAMPS OR TENTS. UM, AND IN OTHER TIMES, PEOPLE, UM, IN THIS CATEGORY MIGHT GRAVITATE MORE TOWARDS, UH, UM, HIGHER POPULATION CENTERS WHERE THERE'S OPPORTUNITY TO PANHANDLE OR TO ACCESS SERVICES, FOOD BANK ASSISTANCE, OR OTHER KINDS OF RESOURCES THAT THEY MIGHT BE LOOKING FOR. BUT AGAIN, THIS IS THE MOST VISIBLE, THE MOST PROMINENT POPULATION BECAUSE THEY'RE HOMELESS FOR EXTENDED PERIODS OF TIME. UM, THERE'S MORE OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO BE VISIBLE, TO BE SEEN, UH, ACROSS THE COMMUNITY. WHEN WE LOOK AT THAT NUMBER, THAT 600 NUMBER, WE ALSO ARE ABLE TO SORT OF LOOK BACKWARDS OVER THE PAST FIVE, SIX, OR SEVEN YEARS TO SEE RATES OF, UH, HOW HOMELESSNESS HAS, UH, AND AN ANNUAL BASIS HAVE CHANGED. AND WE'RE SEEING A STEADY INCREASE IN HOMELESSNESS EACH OF THE PAST HISTORICAL YEARS. SO WE'RE PROJECTING THAT THAT SAME STEADY RATE OF INCREASE ON AN ANNUAL BASIS WILL JUST CARRY FORWARD. SO WE'RE FORECASTING THAT STARTING NOW AT ABOUT 600 ANNUALLY, YOU CAN EXPECT, UM, ABOUT A 6% INCREASE ANNUALLY. SO IF WE DO NOTHING, IF WE JUST DO NOTHING, THERE'LL BE CLOSE TO 800 PEOPLE WHO ARE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS FIVE YEARS FROM NOW. AND THAT'S, AGAIN, BASED ON HISTORICALLY THE RATES OF INCREASE EACH YEAR LEADING UP TO WHERE WE ARE CURRENTLY. THAT'S A, A NATIONWIDE INCREASE. THIS, THESE ARE RATES OF INCREASE WITHIN YAVAPAI COUNTY THAT HAVE BEEN THEN APPLIED TO SEDONA AND VERDE VALLEY RA RATES ARE, IT'S HUGELY VARIABLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY. AND THIS RATE APPLIES EQUALLY ACROSS THE THREE TIME CATEGORIES THAT YOU PRESENTED US WITH. IN, IN TERMS OF THE, THE, UH, TRANSITIONAL, THE EPISODIC, AND THE CHRONIC, THE, THE, THESE RATES, THE ENTIRE POPULATION WOULD ENCOMPASS EACH OF THOSE. SO EACH ONE OF THOSE SECTIONS WOULD HAVE A 6% INCREASE. UH, IT'S NOT LIKE IT THEORETICALLY, YES. OKAY. YES, WE COULD DISTRIBUTE THE INCREASE ACROSS THOSE THREE, THOSE THREE CATEGORIES. OKAY. YEAH. UH, THE, THE, BUT REMEMBER, TRANSITIONAL HOMELESS, UH, THAT SHORT ONE-TIME HOMELESS IS ABOUT 60% OF THE POPULATION. EPISODIC IS 30 AND CHRONIC IS 10. SO THEY WOULD BE APPORTIONED ACCORDING TO THOSE RATES. WHAT ARE YOU SAYING ARE, IS THE CAUSE OF THESE, ESPECIALLY THIS INCREASE MM-HMM. [02:05:01] , IS IT MORE PEOPLE BEING FORCED OUTTA THEIR HOMES? IS IT MORE PEOPLE LOSING THEIR JOBS AND NOT UP BEING UNBE NOT BEING ABLE TO AFFORD TO STAY IN A HOME? IS IT PSYCHOLOGICAL, UH, ISSUES? I, I THINK ALL OF THE ABOVE. AND I THINK THAT GETS TO SOME OF THE REGIONAL CHALLENGES THAT JONATHAN WAS GONNA TOUCH ON. SO I THINK THAT'S A GREAT TRANSITION. THANKS, MAYOR. BEFORE, BEFORE YOU TRANSITION OVER, UH, TO THE NEXT SLIDES, WHAT PERCENTAGE, THIS IS BASED ON THE ARIZONA HIMSS SYSTEM, RIGHT? MM-HMM. , WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE TOTAL POPULATION DO YOU BELIEVE IS CAPTURED THROUGH THIS SYSTEM? THE, THE, THE PROPORTION OF THE TOTAL HOMELESS POPULATION, PEOPLE WHO ARE LITERALLY EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS BUT ARE CAPTURED IN HMIS? MM-HMM. . UM, HMIS, AS I SAID, IS A SERVICE-BASED ENUMERATION. SO ONLY PEOPLE WHO ENGAGE IN SERVICES ARE ENROLLED IN A PROJECT SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR HOMELESS, UH, THAT PROVIDING HOMELESS SERVICES WOULD BE COUNTED. SO THAT WOULD INCLUDE AN OUTREACH TEAM THAT'S GOING ON ON THE LAND TO MAYBE PROVIDE COMFORT AND CARE WATER BOTTLES, GRANOLA SOCKS TO PEOPLE WHO ARE OUTSIDE. UM, ANYONE WHO'S ENROLLED IN THAT KIND OF A PROBLEM WOULD BE COUNTED SOMEONE WHO'S IN AN EMERGENCY SHELTER, A PROJECT THAT'S DESIGNATED FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE LITERALLY HOMELESS. AND THAT CAN BE A FACILITY BASED PROJECT, OR COULD BE JUST A MOTEL THAT'S SET UP ON A, MAYBE A SEASONAL OR TEMPORARY BASIS TO ACCOMMODATE PEOPLE WHO ARE, WHO ARE UNHOUSED. IT ALSO INCLUDES PEOPLE WHO ARE PARTICIPATING IN MORE INTERMEDIATE TERM HOUSING PROJECTS, LIKE A RENTAL ASSISTANCE PROJECT OR A CASE MANAGEMENT PROJECT. SO OVER TIME, OVER TIME, THE HMIS DOES CAPTURE THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS. BUT THAT'S OVER TIME, IF IT'S JUST A, AT A SINGLE KIND OF SNAPSHOT OR A POINT IN TIME, THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE OUTSIDE WHO ARE NOT PARTICIPATING IN SERVICES, OR THERE ARE COMMUNITIES THAT SIMPLY DON'T HAVE SERVICES TO OFFER. SO PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS DON'T HAVE A PROJECT TO ENROLL IN, SO THEY WOULDN'T BE COUNTED. BUT WHAT WE KNOW IS OVER TIME, PEOPLE TEND TO BE CONTACTED AND TEND TO HAVE SOME KIND OF PARTICIPATION IN A PROJECT. IF THERE'S ENOUGH TIME THAT ELAPSES, THEY'LL BE CAPTURED IN HMIS. SO, SO CAN I FINISH OKAY. OH YEAH. SO THIS WOULD, SO BASICALLY THESE NUMBERS ARE UNDER-REPORTED. THAT'S WHERE I WAS GONNA GO. IT'S, IT'S LIKELY, ESPECIALLY IN, UM, THAT'S WHY WE'RE HAVING TO PROJECT THAT 600 NUMBER BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE HMIS, UM, UH, BUT WE FEEL THAT THE 600 NUMBER IS DEFENSIBLE, BUT IT'S NOT AN HMIS BASED NUMBER. OKAY. I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AT FOR ACCURACY. WHAT'S YOUR, WHAT'S YOUR NUMBER, PLUS OR MINUS, HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK YOU'RE, WE, UH, WE CAME UP WITH THE 600 NUMBER AND THEN THE TOPOLOGY AND IN, AND AS I SAID, IN EVERY SINGLE, UM, STAKEHOLDER INTERVIEW. SO POLICE, UM, THE FOREST SERVICE, THE FOOD BANKS, UM, UH, THE HOMELESS, UH, ALLIANCE, UM, EVERYONE AGREED THAT THAT WAS A BA THEY, THEY FELT THAT IT, IT WAS CONSISTENT WITH THEIR EXPERIENCE. UM, AND SO I FEEL VERY CONFIDENT THAT THAT'S THE RIGHT NUMBER TO START WITH FOR PLANNING PURPOSES AT THIS POINT. PETE, I WOULD WONDER IF, YOU KNOW, UNDER THE HMI SYSTEM, THE BASELINE DATA THAT YOU'RE USING, THE TRANSITIONAL POPULATION MIGHT BE THE LEAST REPRESENTED IS THAT RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT. DO YOU DO MORE OF A CALCULATION, UH, A A, OF A PROJECTION? EXACTLY. THANK YOU. SO THE TRANSITIONAL POPULATION IS THE MOST LIKELY TO BE UNDERREPRESENTED BECAUSE THEY'RE HOMELESS FOR SHORT, FOR SUCH A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. AND PEOPLE WHO ARE UNSHELTERED, UM, WHO ARE LIVING ON THE LAND. AND, AND IT'S A COMBINATION OF THERE AREN'T SERVICES FOR THEM TO PARTICIPATE IN AND PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY RESISTANT TO ENGAGEMENT, UM, FOR REASONS THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT. BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO BE SEEN, THEY DON'T WANT TO BE FOUND, THEY DON'T WANT TO BE ENGAGED IN SERVICES. SO THAT'S ANOTHER PORTION WHERE WE'D HAVE TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS TO ACCOUNT FOR PEOPLE IN TERMS OF UNDERSTANDING THE EXTENT AND SCOPE OF HOMELESSNESS WE HAVE TO MAKE THOSE ACCOMMODATIONS OR MAKE THOSE ADJUSTMENTS IN THE NUMBERS TO REFLECT THOSE BEHAVIORS. I'M SORRY, THE TERM GHOSTS DOES THAT. PEOPLE WHO THEY FLY, UH, THEY FLY FROM CITY TO CITY, YOU KNOW, WALK OR HITCHHIKE. MM-HMM. , THEY DON'T STAY IN ANY ONE CITY TOO LONG. IS THAT CATEGORIZED? IF, IF IN FACT THAT IS A, A STAY PATTERN, IT WOULD MOST LIKELY ENTIRELY BE REFLECTED IN THE TRANSITIONAL HOMELESS POPULATION. PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST COMING THROUGH TOWN FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. CAR BREAKS DOWN, NO RELATIONSHIP FRACTURES, SOMETHING HAPPENS. SO THEY'RE HOMELESS FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, BUT THEY'RE MOVING ON. SO YOU'RE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT TERM? I'VE NOT HEARD THAT TERM BEFORE, NO. OKAY. WHERE PEOPLE JUST GO, THEY TRAVEL EAST TO WEST ALL YEAR ROUND. THEY GO FOR THE WARMER WEATHER. I KNOW PEOPLE THAT I'VE SEEN, YOU COULD SOMETIMES SEE THEM WALKING INTO TOWN FROM, YOU KNOW, UH, EITHER OVER MINGO MOUNTAINS, YOU COULD SEE THEM COMING ACROSS MM-HMM. WITH THEIR BACKPACKS AND, AND THEY HAVE ALL THE STUFF. AND IT'S [02:10:01] VERY MUCH HOMELESS. IT'S, IT'S QUITE COMMON. AND WE, WE HEAR THIS IN OTHER COMMUNITIES, THAT THERE'S, UM, SEA MUCH SEASONAL VARIATION. WELL, SEASONAL, ANOTHER ONE, UM, DURING, UM, I WOULD IMAGINE IN SEDONA IN THE SUMMERTIME, IT'S VERY HOT. IT'S UNCOMFORTABLE TO BE OUTSIDE. AND SO PEOPLE MIGHT GO NORTH WHERE IT'S A LITTLE BIT COOLER. MM-HMM. . UM, AND THAT SAME KIND OF MIGRATION OF THOSE CHANGE PATTERNS ARE EVIDENT IN OTHER COMMUNITIES AS WELL. SO THERE'S, UM, THERE WITHIN STATES AND WITHIN, UH, DEFINED GEOGRAPHIC AREAS, UM, THERE IS SOME MOVEMENT OR MIGRATION OF PEOPLE AROUND. THANK YOU. YOU CONTINUE. AND I'LL JUST ADD, I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE CAPTURED BOTH IN TRANSITIONAL AND EPISODIC HOMELESSNESS, DEPENDING ON THE CASE. UM, YOU MAY HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRANSITIONING OVER TIME, EXPERIENCING LONGER STAYS OF HOME IN HOMELESSNESS. IT'S, IT'S, IT'S LESS LIKELY THAT THAT WOULD BE REFLECTED IN THE CHRONIC HOMELESSNESS GROUP. 'CAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A GROUP THAT, THAT WOULD HAVE A HARD TIME TRAVELING. SO. OKAY. SO IN ORDER TO KINDA, UH, GROUND THE UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, WE WANNA EXPLAIN KINDA THE REGIONAL CONTEXT AND THE REGIONAL CHALLENGES THAT WE'RE SEEING IN THE VERDE VALLEY. AND JUST TO, UM, DRAW THE PARAMETERS AROUND HOW WE ARRIVED AT THE VERDE. VERDE VALLEY IS A FOCUS. UM, YOU KNOW, WE, WE HAD ACCESS TO COUNTY LEVEL DATA. UH, YOU ALREADY HEARD THAT HMIS IS JUST NOT A, A RELIABLE, COMPLETE PICTURE OF HOMELESSNESS. AND, AND, UH, WE ALSO KNOW THAT THERE'S A VERY, THERE'S A STARK DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, UM, WHAT SERVICES LOOK LIKE IN THE VERDE VALLEY VERSUS THE REST OF YAVAPAI COUNTY. UM, WE'RE AWARE THAT A PORTION OF SEDONA IS ACTUALLY IN COCONINO COUNTY. AND WHEN WE, WE WERE WORKING ON OUR METHODOLOGY, WE, UH, YOU KNOW, WE WENT, WE WANTED TO SEE IF THAT MADE SENSE TO INCLUDE IT. UM, BUT ASSESSING THE SERVICE NEEDS, WE FOUND THERE WERE NO SERVICES IN THAT PORTION OF UPTOWN. AND SO LOOKING AT COCONINO COUNTY WOULD REALLY BE ESSENTIALLY A LOOK AT FLAGSTAFF. AND SO WE DECIDED TO EXCLUDE IT FROM WHAT WE ARE DESCRIBING. BUT IN ESSENCE, UPTOWN IS INCLUDED IN THE VERDE VALLEY. SO YOU JUST WANNA DISTINGUISH BETWEEN VERDE VALLEY. AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT YABA COUNTY, WE'RE FOCUSED ON THE VERDE VALLEY AS THE SCOPE OF THE ASSESSMENT. SO RETURNING TO WHAT, WHAT ARE THE ROOT CAUSES? WHAT'S DRIVING HOMELESSNESS IN THE REGION? UM, RESEARCH SHOWS THAT HOMELESSNESS IS DRIVEN BY A LACK OF AFFORDABILITY AND AVAILABILITY OF HOUSING. AND THIS, UM, ONE EXAMPLE THAT'S A HELPFUL, UM, ASSESSMENT OF THIS COMES FROM HOMELESSNESS, IS A HOUSING PROBLEM. A FAIRLY CONTEMPORARY, UM, STUDY DONE IN 2022. AND THEY USE THIS METAPHOR OF THE GAME OF MUSICAL CHAIRS TO DESCRIBE WHY THIS IS THE CASE. UM, THE QUOTE IS THE RULE, THE RULES OF THE GAME MEANT SOMEBODY HAD TO LOSE. SO IF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH, IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH MUSICAL CHAIRS, AS YOU GO AROUND AND YOU SEEK A CHAIR, UM, ANOTHER, ANOTHER CHAIR PULLED OUT. AND SO FOR YOU TO SIT DOWN SOME, THERE HAS TO BE SOMEBODY WHO CAN'T SIT DOWN. SO WHEN WE SEE RISING RENT COSTS, AND I'M TALKING ABOUT INTERESTING CONVERSATION ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AND HOW LONG DOES IT REMAIN AFFORDABLE, UM, OVER TIME WE LOSE AFFORDABLE HOUSING INVENTORY. AND SO WHEN THESE OPTIONS GO AWAY, UM, ANY PERSON WHO MOVES INTO HOUSING WITH CONSTRAINTS ON THEIR INCOME MEANS THERE'S SOMEBODY ELSE WITH CONSTRAINTS ON THEIR INCOME WHO'S NOT GETTING THAT HOUSING. 'CAUSE WE, WE KNOW THERE'S NOT ENOUGH. SO, UH, PART OF WHAT I WANT TO CENTER AS WE MOVE INTO THIS ASSESSMENT IS THE FACT THAT, YES, MATT DESCRIBED THESE CHARACTERISTICS IN EPISODIC HOMELESSNESS AND CHRONIC HOMELESSNESS THAT DO HAVE TO DO WITH MENTAL HEALTH. THEY DO HAVE TO DO WITH SUBSTANCE USE AND CHALLENGES THAT THESE THINGS BRING IN PEOPLE'S LIVES. BUT THAT'S NOT, I, THAT'S NOT, RESEARCH DOES NOT SHOW THAT THOSE ARE DRIVERS OF HOMELESSNESS. THOSE ARE EXACERBATING FACTORS OF OUR HOMELESSNESS. WHAT WE SEE IN THE VERDE VALLEY IS, UM, A VERY CLEAR TREND. YOU GUYS KNOW THIS, UM, HOUSING FOR RENTAL UNITS IS PARTICULARLY CONSTRAINED. WHEN WE LOOK AT THE VERDE VALLEY AT A WHOLE LOOKING AT CENSUS DATA, IT'S AVAILABLE UP TO 2022. UM, THE MOST RECENT YEAR IN 2022, VACANCY RATES FOR RENTALS, UH, ARE AROUND 4%. UM, AND EVEN IF SOMEBODY COULD FIND A UNIT QUESTION, WHAT DOES RENTED NOT OCCUPIED MEAN ON THAT SLIDE? OH, GOOD QUESTION. UM, SO [02:15:01] THESE ARE THE CATEGORIES THAT HAVE IN THE, THE CENSUS, UH, DATA. AND SO RENTED, NOT OCCUPIED, UM, IS, IT REPRESENTS, UM, I THINK IT'S LESS THAN 1% OF THE, THE RENTAL, UM, INVENTORY. AND I DON'T HAVE A GOOD DEFINITION FOR IT. SO I, I CAN GET BACK TO YOU ON WHAT RENT AND NOT OCCUPIED MEANS, PLEASE. UM, FOR RENT HERE IN ORANGE IS THE PORTION THAT REPRESENTS, UM, UNITS THAT ARE IN THE RENTAL INVENTORY THAT ARE NOT CURRENTLY OCCUPIED. SO THAT'S THE AVAILABILITY. YEAH, CORRECT. OKAY. YEAH. BUT WHEN YOU CAN, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT RENTED NOT OCCUPIED DOESN'T MEAN. I'LL GET THAT FOR YOU. UM, YEAH. AND SO YOU CAN SEE THE PORTION OF UNITS THAT ARE FOR RENT, BUT, UM, ARE NOT RENTER OCCUPIED, MEANING NOT PART OF THE, THE RED BAR REPRESENTED HERE, UH, IS, IS, IS, IS VERY CONSTRAINED. UM, AND THIS GOES NOT JUST FOR SEDONA, RIGHT? THIS IS THE ENTIRE VALLEY. SO THIS IS, TODAY, WE WERE TALKING IN PRIOR DISCUSSION ABOUT THE NEED FOR HOUSING OPTIONS. THIS IS NOT JUST A, A SEDONA CHALLENGE. THIS IS A, A, A CHALLENGE FOR THE ENTIRE REGION. AND TO DEMONSTRATE THAT I, UH, I WANTED TO PORTRAY, UM, HOUSING COST BURDEN. THIS IS A MEASURE DEFINED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT DESCRIBES THE, THE PORTION OF THE POPULATION THAT IS, UH, THAT, THAT HAS TO PAY OVER 30% OF THEIR INCOME TOWARDS HOUSING COSTS. SO YOU CAN SEE ACROSS THE ENTIRE VALLEY, UH, THESE NUMBERS ARE HIGH. UM, THE BOTTOM AT THE, THE LOWER END OF THIS IS 30% OF THE POPULATION IS PAYING OVER 30% OF THEIR INCOME IN RIM ROCK. THE HIGHER END IS IN SEDONA. AT 56% OF THE POPULATION PAYING OVER 30%. UM, THIS IS WHERE HOMELESSNESS BEGINS. THIS IS ANOTHER, UH, ANOTHER STUDY THAT WE TALK ABOUT WHEN WE THINK, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT HOW IS IT THAT, UM, HOMELESSNESS EMERGES IN DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES, INCREASES IN HOMELESSNESS AT THE REGIONAL LEVEL ARE DRIVEN BY THE AFFORDABILITY AND AVAILABILITY OF RENTAL UNITS, NOT INDIVIDUAL FACTORS. SO EXAMPLES OF THIS CAN BE SEEN IN PLACES LIKE MISSISSIPPI, WHERE THEY HAVE THE HIGHEST POVERTY RATES IN THE COUNTRY, BUT THEY, THEIR HOMELESSNESS RATES ARE NOT HIGH IN COMPARISON TO OTHER COMMUNITIES. SAME THING IN WEST VIRGINIA WHERE THEY HAVE THE HIGHEST RATES OF OVERDOSE FROM, UH, OPIOIDS IN THE COUNTRY. HOMELESSNESS RATES ARE LOW. YOU LOOK AT CALIFORNIA RENTAL RATES, COST OF HOUSING IS THROUGH THE ROOF, AND HOMELESSNESS IS WORSE THAN ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY. SO PART OF, UM, WHAT WE SURMISED FROM LOOKING AT THE VERDE VALLEY IS THAT WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT RECOMMENDATIONS THAT, UM, ARE HOU ARE, ARE ABOUT HOUSING, BUT THAT HOUSING DEVELOPMENT IS NOT A, AN IMMEDIATE ANSWER. AND HOMELESSNESS IS A, IS A CRISIS. IT, IT IS A, IT IS A SITUATION THAT HAS, UM, LIFE AND DEATH IMPACT FOR MANY PEOPLE. AND SO, HONING IN ON RECOMMENDATIONS THAT ARE FEASIBLE IN THE IMMEDIATE AND SHORT TERM, MEDIUM TERM IS PART OF, UM, PART OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IN OUR ASSESSMENT. SO WE, IN ORDER TO FORMULATE A SET OF POSSIBLE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT MIGHT BE, UM, UH, USEFUL FOR DELIBERATION, WE THINK ABOUT, UH, IT'S USEFUL TO THINK ABOUT THE HOMELESSNESS SYSTEM AS A FIXED SYSTEM. UM, AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE REALLY FOCUSED ON HOW DO WE PREVENT HOMELESSNESS WHEN POSSIBLE. SO WE'RE PREVENTING THE INFLOW OF NEWLY HOMELESS, THAT TRANSITIONAL HOMELESS POPULATION, BUT ALSO ACCELERATING EXITS OUT OF HOMELESSNESS FOR PEOPLE WHO ALREADY FIND THEMSELVES IN A HOUSING CRISIS. SO BOTH OF THOSE SORT OF LEVERS, BOTH OF THOSE MECHANISMS HAVE TO BE AT PLAY. WHEN WE LOOK AT A SET OF RECOMMENDATIONS, WE KNOW THAT EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT REDUCING THE NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS WHO BECOME HOMELESS AND ACCELERATING THE RATES OF EXITS OUT OF HOMELESSNESS, UM, ARE, UH, ARE THE BEST WAYS TO REDUCE OVERALL HOMELESSNESS. SO WE'RE TRYING TO BRING THAT 600 NUMBER DOWN TO REDUCE, UH, TO AN OVERALL NUMBER THAT'S IN FACT, UM, IT'S AS CLOSE TO ZERO AS POSSIBLE. UM, SO AGAIN, WE'RE [02:20:01] LOOKING AT THIS AS A CLOSED SYSTEM AND A SET OF RECOMMENDATIONS THAT KIND OF THINKING ABOUT THIS AS SORT OF A VESSEL OR A TUB. HOW DO WE PREVENT THE INFLOW INTO, UH, THE SYSTEM, UM, ACCELERATE EXITS OUT OF THE SYSTEM THROUGH THE DRAIN. AND IF WE DON'T DO THAT, THEN WE'RE GONNA HAVE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A SPILL OVER MORE PEOPLE ON THE STREETS. UM, AND IN THE PUBLIC SPACES, UM, THAT'S NOT CONSISTENT WITH YOUR VISION FOR SEDONA AND THE VERDE VALLEY. SO SOME STRATEGIES THAT WILL BE INCLUDED IN THE REPORT, AND AGAIN, THESE ARE USEFUL FOR DELIBERATION AND DISCUSSION TO SEE TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY MIGHT RESONATE WITH YOU. UM, THERE ARE COST IMPLICATIONS FOR ALL OF THESE, BUT THESE ARE ALL STRATEGIES GEARED TOWARDS PREVENTING PEOPLE FROM BECOMING HOMELESS TO BEGIN WITH. UM, SO PEOPLE WHO JUST NEED SOME ADDITIONAL INCOME IN ORDER TO MANAGE THE RENT. SO EMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE OR EMPLOYMENT COACHING OR, UH, UH, FINDING, UH, BETTER JOBS. UM, SOME MOVING ASSISTANCE. WE TALK TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, UM, IN FOCUS GROUPS AND IN INDIVIDUAL INTERVIEWS. PEOPLE WHO ARE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS, MANY OF THEM HAVE FRIENDS OR FAMILY IN OTHER AREAS OF THE STATE AND WOULD BE WILLING AND ARE, ARE ACTUALLY, UH, EAGER TO MOVE TO RELOCATE TO THOSE AREAS BECAUSE THEY HAVE A FAMILY THAT CAN SUPPORT THEM AS THEY TRY TO GET BACK ON THEIR FEET. SO THAT'S A VERY USEFUL STRATEGY OF SUPPORTING THE RELOCATION FOR PEOPLE TO OTHER JURISDICTIONS WHEN THEY HAVE A HOUSING THAT'S SAFE, APPROPRIATE, AND A, AND A, AND A SUPPORT NETWORK IN THAT LOCATION THAT CAN HELP THEM MAINTAIN THAT HOUSING. RIGHT. HOLD ON ONE. YEAH. ANY IDEA WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE 600, THE NOTION OF HELPING THEM MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE WOULD BE APPLICABLE? IT'S, UM, I MEAN, I DON'T, I, IT'S, I I WOULD SAY THAT MANY OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE SPOKE TO, UM, BE WILLING TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE EXACT PERCENTAGE IS OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE A FAMILY MEMBER OR A, A LOCATION THAT WOULD BE A, A SUITABLE RELOCATION, UM, PLACE FOR THEM. DID YOU RUN ACROSS A SIZABLE POPULATION THAT SAID, SEDONA HAS CALLED ME HERE, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE A PLAN FOR EMPLOYMENT, HOUSING, YOU NAME IT. MM-HMM. . THERE, THERE WAS A WHOLE VARIETY OF DIFFERENT, UM, STORIES THAT WE HEARD. MANY PEOPLE, UM, ARE COMING HERE, UM, FOR ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY. THEY SEE, UM, THE TOURISM SECTOR AS A QUICK ENTRY LEVEL WAY TO GET A FAST JOB. AND THEN ONCE THEY GET HERE, IT'S NOT SUFFICIENT TO ACTUALLY MAKE ENDS MEET. OTHER PEOPLE ARE JUST COMING FOR THE LIFESTYLE. UM, THEY LIKE THE OPEN AIR, THE BEAUTIFUL, UM, AREA THAT'S HERE. UM, AND ONCE THEY'RE HERE AND THEY'RE TRYING TO GET ESTABLISHED, THEY RUN INTO, UH, OBSTACLES. AND SO IT DOESN'T WORK OUT FOR THEM. MANY OF THE PEOPLE WE SPOKE TO, I MEAN, I WOULD GUESS IT WAS AT LEAST HALF ARE LONGTIME RESIDENTS OF THE AREA HAVE GREW UP, WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL HERE, HAVE FAMILY AND FRIENDS HERE, AND HAVE BEEN STRUGGLING WITH EITHER ADDICTION, UM, OR MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, UM, OR OTHER PHYSICAL HEALTH ISSUES THAT PREVENT THEM FROM MAINTAINING ONGOING EMPLOYMENT, UM, AND HAVE FRACTURED RELATIONSHIPS WITH FAMILY OR FRIENDS SUCH THAT THEY'RE ON THEIR OWN. AND I, I WOULD CHARACTERIZE THAT THAT WAS AT LEAST HALF OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE SPOKE TO WERE SEDONA RESIDENTS, LONGTIME RESIDENTS, UM, WHO WERE WELL KNOWN TO THE FOOD BANKS, TO THE CHURCHES, UM, AS PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HERE FOR QUITE SOME TIME. SO THOSE ARE SOME STRATEGIES TO REDUCE THE INFLOW, OTHER STRATEGIES TO, UH, ACCELERATE EXITS OUT OF THE SYSTEM. UM, BEFORE YOU MOVE, I'M SORRY. YES. CAN YOU GO BACK TO THAT SLIDE FOR A SECOND? SURE. SO YOU'VE GOT THE CONNECTION TO REGIONAL SUPPORTS AS ONE OF THE, THE THINGS, HOWEVER, ON ON PAGE SEVEN OF YOU OF THE REPORT, YOU NOTE THAT THE, UM, THE COORDINATED ENTRY SYSTEM, THIS TYPE OF SYSTEM EXISTS ALL G BY COUNTY, MR BY THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING THROUGH A SUBCONTRACT WITH CATHOLIC CHARITIES. UH, EFFECTIVENESS ON LOCALIZED LEVEL FOR THE VERDE VALLEY IS NOT APPARENT BECAUSE THE SERVICE PROVIDERS ARE NOT IN VERDE VALLEY, ARE NOT INTEGRATED WITHIN THE SYSTEM. PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS IN THIS REGION ARE UNABLE TO ACCESS THE RESOURCES THAT COULD OTHERWISE EXPEDITE THEIR TRANSITION OUT OF HOMELESSNESS. SO IF WE WANNA CON HOW CAN WE CONNECT PEOPLE TO REGIONAL SUPPORTS, IF THE REGIONAL SUPPORTS AREN'T HERE? THE, THE GENERAL INFRASTRUCTURE EXISTS IN TERMS OF A COMMON ASSESSMENT, UM, SOME HOUSING RESOURCES AND, UM, A DATA SYSTEM TO CAPTURE INFORMATION AND TO HELP PEOPLE MAKE THE LINKAGES, THE SERVICES DON'T EXIST AS PART OF THAT REGIONAL SYSTEM. SO WHAT THE, WHAT THE REPORT IS ACKNOWLEDGING IS THAT YOU HAVE THE SORT OF [02:25:01] SCAFFOLDING OF A COORDINATED ENTRY PROCESS, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THE MEANINGFUL SERVICES AND THE, THE, THE PROGRAMS TO CONNECT PEOPLE TO. SO IT'S ALMOST LIKE, UH, PROVIDING, UH, A REFERRAL TO AN, AN INTERVENTION THAT IS, DOESN'T EXIST. OR PROVIDING THEM TO A, A, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, SENDING, GIVING THEM A BUS TICKET TO GO TO A PROJECT THAT'S NOT EQUIPPED TO ACTUALLY HELP THEM. SO MATT, IS THAT HISTORIC FOR SEDONA, SEDONA AND THE VERDE VALLEY? 'CAUSE I KNOW COTTONWOOD HAS HAD, UH, SERVICES THEY, THEY'VE PROVIDED. SO THEY'RE DIFFERENT THAN SEDONA WOULD BE. MM-HMM. IN A, IN A COORDINATED ENTRY SYSTEM, THERE WOULD BE A COMPLETE INVENTORY OF ALL THE DIFFERENT INTERVENTIONS, THE SERVICES, THE PROGRAMS THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE SEDONA VERDE VALLEY REGION. SO THAT IF A PERSON WAS EXPERIENCING A HOUSING CRISIS, THEY WOULD, THERE'S A SINGLE FRONT DOOR OR AN ACCESS POINT THAT THEY CAN CALL. AND A COMMON ASSESSMENT SAYS THE BEST PROJECT FOR YOU IS A TRANSITIONAL HOUSING PROJECT IN COTTONWOOD. THE BEST PROJECT FOR YOU IS SOME FOOD ASSISTANCE AND SOME RELOCATION ASSISTANCE THAT CAN BE PROVIDED IN SEDONA. THAT COORDINATION DOESN'T EXIST CURRENTLY. SO WHAT THE, WHAT THE NEEDS ASSESSMENT IS ACKNOWLEDGING IS THAT YOU HAVE, AGAIN, THE SCAFFOLDING OF COORDINATE ENTRY WITH CATHOLIC CHARITIES, UH, HIRED OR, OR FUNDED TO PROVIDE THIS SERVICE. BUT THERE'S NOT THE ELEMENTS OF THE SERVICE TO CONNECT PEOPLE TO NOT IN A MEANINGFUL WAY. SO THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'M HEARING ABOUT CATHOLIC CHARITIES. NORMALLY WE HEAR ABOUT SPECTRUM. SO WHY IS THIS THE FIRST TIME WE'RE HEARING ABOUT CATHOLIC CHARITIES? I THINK SPECTRUM IS THE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH. SO, SO IN THIS REGION, UH, WE'RE FAMILIAR WITH SPECTRUM, FAMILIAR WITH, UM, ARIZONA COMPLETE HEALTH. UM, SO THESE ARE MAINSTREAM SERVICES THAT EXIST, AND THAT IS PART OF WHAT WE'RE SAYING. IT FOLKS CAN GET CONNECTED TO REGIONAL SUPPORTS THROUGH THESE KIND OF MAINSTREAM SERVICES. WHAT'S MISSING IS THE COORDINATED APPROACH TO ACTUALLY FACILITATE THOSE CONNECTIONS AND TO TAP INTO THE BROADER ARRAY OF COORDINATED ENTRY SPECIFIC PROGRAMS THAT ARE AVAILABLE. AND THAT COULD BE EXPANDED. THE, UM, THE, THE PROGRAMS IN CONWOOD WE HEARD ABOUT AND, AND SMOKED WITH SOME OF THEM. UM, THERE ARE SOME GREAT PROGRAMS, BUT WITHOUT THE COORDINATED EFFORT TO MATCH FOLKS TO WHAT'S AN APPROPRIATE LEVEL OF SERVICE FOR THEM, UH, WE END UP, I MEAN, WHAT WE SEE IN COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY IS THOSE RESOURCES DON'T GET WELL UTILIZED. YOU GET DUPLICATED SERVICES, YOU GET FOLKS THAT HAVE A HIGHER LEVEL OF NEED GOING FOR LOWER, UH, INTENSITY CARE, AND THEN YOU END UP HAVING TO THEN REROUTE TO A DIFFERENT FORM OF ASSISTANCE. AND SO THE, THE THING THAT'S MISSING IS THAT, THAT WAY OF MATCHING PEOPLE APPROPRIATELY. OKAY. THANK YOU. DID YOU HAVE A COMMENT? I, I HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION, PLEASE. UM, YOU SAID THAT, UH, HALF OF THE AREA HOMELESS WERE THE LONG-TERM RESIDENTS. AND DID YOU CAME TO THAT NUMBER FROM TALKING TO THE STAKEHOLDERS THAT YOU INTERVIEWED, NOT FROM ANY KIND OF ACCOUNT, IS THAT CORRECT? IT WAS A COMBINATION OF, OF PERSONS WHO ARE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS, TALKING TO THEM DIRECTLY, AND TALKING TO, AND GETTING DATA FROM THE FOOD BANK. OKAY. THAT TRACKS THAT. THANK YOU. MM-HMM. . PETE WAS THERE QUESTION OR COMMENT? I THINK I'M GONNA HAVE ONE AFTER THE NEXT SLIDE. OKAY. OKAY. JUST, UH, MELISSA, UM, EXCUSE, SORRY. UM, SO TO GO BACK, GO BACK A LITTLE BIT TO THE MAYOR'S QUESTION. SO, CATHOLIC CHARITIES IS A SPECIFIC GROUP. WHERE ARE THEY ACTIVE CURRENTLY? WHAT SERVICES ARE THEY CURRENTLY PROVIDED, UH, OR PROVIDING WITHIN THE VERDE VALLEY? ARE THEY IN THE VERDE VALLEY OR IS THIS ACTUALLY EVENTUALLY ONE OF YOUR STRATEG GYMS AROUND TO, YOU KNOW, THE FACT THAT THEY'RE EVERYWHERE ELSE BUT HERE AND SHOULD WE BRING THEM IN? SO YEAH. THE SERVICE THAT THEY'RE CONTRACTED TO PROVIDE IS TO MANAGE THE COORDINATED ENTRY PROCESS. SO IT'S NOT A DIRECT SERVICE TO A CLIENT PER SE, IT'S THE COORDINATION OF THE SYSTEM, BUT THERE ISN'T A EFFECTIVE SYSTEM IN PLACE FOR THEM TO ACTUALLY COORDINATE. SO ALTHOUGH I THINK THEY'RE BASED IN FLAGSTAFF, UM, AND THEY HAVE, UH, UM, MOBILE STAFF WHO CAN COME DOWN TO THIS AREA, THE CHALLENGE IS YOU CAN ENGAGE SOMEONE, BUT YOU HAVE TO GIVE THEM SOMETHING. YOU HAVE TO ENGAGE THEM TO DIRECT THEM TO AN INTERVENTION OR TO A RESOURCE. AND IF, AND IF THAT COHESIVE STRATEGY, THAT SYSTEM PLAN DOESN'T EXIST, THERE'S NOT MUCH FOR THIS COORDINATE ENTRY ENTITY TO ACTUALLY CONNECT PEOPLE TO. AND THIS WAS MOST APPARENT WHEN WE SPOKE TO YOUR FIRST RESPONDERS FIRE AND POLICE. UM, THEY WOULD ENCOUNTER SOMEONE WHO'S EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS AND FEEL, UM, UH, HOBBLED BY AN INABILITY TO ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING. UM, AND IN, WE HEARD A COUPLE OF STORIES WHERE THEY'RE REACHING INTO THEIR OWN POCKET TO TRY AND EITHER FINANCIALLY OR MAKING CALLS TO COORDINATE A [02:30:01] CRISIS RESPONSE FOR AN INDIVIDUAL, BECAUSE THAT INFRASTRUCTURE SIMPLY DOESN'T EXIST. AND SO YOUR FIRST RESPONDERS, YOUR POLICE AND YOUR FIRE ARE TRYING TO HELP PEOPLE NAVIGATE THE COMPLEXITY OF HOMELESSNESS BY IDENTIFYING RESOURCES IN THE COMMUNITY. AND IT'S THIS OPAQUE, UH, CONVOLUTED SYSTEM THAT'S VERY CHALLENGING FOR, I MEAN, IT'S NOT THEIR, THEIR FIRST JOB IS TO UNDERSTAND HOW TO NAVIGATE A HOMELESSNESS SYSTEM. UM, AND THAT'S WHAT THE COORDINATE ENTRY PROCESS IS OPPOSED TO BE PROVIDING. THAT'S THE ENTITY THAT SHOULD BE PROVIDING THAT COORDINATION, THAT ALIGNMENT, THAT STRATEGY ACROSS THE ENTIRE SYSTEM. OKAY. GO AHEAD. SORRY IF THIS IS REDUNDANT, BUT DID, DID OUR POLICE AND FIRE, DID THEY KNOW ABOUT CATHOLIC CHARITIES? DO YOU KNOW IF THEY KNEW THEY KNEW ABOUT CATHOLIC CHARITIES ONLY REALLY IN CONTEXT OF, UM, A RESOURCE LIST THAT THEY HAD MADE FOR THE AREA. AND IT WAS THIS THING THAT CAME UP. IT WAS IN INTERVIEWS WITH DIFFERENT SECTORS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT. UM, IT WAS AN OUTDATED LIST. THEY SAID, THIS IS THE TOOL WE HAVE. AND WHEN WE TALKED TO CATHOLIC CHARITIES, THEY SAID, OH YEAH, THAT'S AN OUTDATED LIST. UH, BUT THEY ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH HOW TO REALLY UTILIZE THE COORDINATE ENTRY SYSTEM THAT CATHOLIC CHARITIES ADMINISTERS. PART OF THE REASON FOR THAT IS THAT THERE'S INVESTMENT IN CATHOLIC CHARITIES AND IN THE SYSTEM, UH, IN THE, IN THE AREAS THAT THEY'RE MORE ACTIVE. SO CATHOLIC CHARITIES AND FLAGSTAFF, THERE'S A BIG LOCAL INVESTMENT IN THE COORDINATED ENTRY APPROACH. UH, THE MAYOR HAS CHAMPIONED THE, THIS AS LIKE A, LIKE THE STRATEGY FOR REDUCING HOMELESSNESS. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SEE IN ACROSS THE COUNTRY WITH POLITICAL WILL TO BACK A, A SYSTEM APPROACH LIKE THIS. SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE GALVANIZING THERE. THEY'RE GALVAN GALVANIZING PRESCOTT, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE ANY DIRECT SERVICE OFFERINGS HERE IN THE VERDE VALLEY, BUT THEY'RE CONTRACTED TO, RIGHT. THEY'RE CONTRACTED TO COORDINATE A SYSTEM THAT DOESN'T EXIST. , THEY'RE CONTRACTED. I KNEW THAT WAS GONNA COME FOR A MUCH LARGER REGION. IT'S BEYOND JUST, UH, YAVAPAI COUNTY. I THINK IT'S THREE COUNTIES THAT THEY, THEY DO IT FOR. AND IT'S PART OF, UM, SOMETHING CALLED THE CONTINUUM OF CARE PROGRAM. TO RECEIVE FEDERAL FUNDING, YOU HAVE TO HAVE, UH, THIS INFRASTRUCTURE. SO THEY'RE ACTUALLY WRITTEN INTO THE GOVERNANCE FOR THE CONTINUUM OF CARE FUNDING FOR, UH, THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND ASSIGNED OUT TO THESE THREE COUNTIES AS THAT LEAD. HOW WOULD YOU COMPARE CATHOLIC CHARITIES WITH VERDE VALLEY HOMELESS COALITION? 'CAUSE AT FACE VALUE, IT SORT OF SEEMS LIKE SIMILAR MISSION, RIGHT? ISN'T THE HOMELESS COALITION AND AREN'T THEY AN AN ENTRY SYSTEM ESSENTIALLY AT FACE VALUE? WHEN YOU LOOK AT CATHOLIC CHARITIES SERVICE PACKAGE, LIKE FOR DIRECT SERVICES, THINGS LIKE, UH, CONNECTING PEOPLE TO BASIC NEEDS, UM, CONNECTING PEOPLE TO HOUSING SUBSIDIES, IT LOOKS VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT THEY DO AT THE VERDE VALLEY HOMELESS COALITION. IT THE WORK ITSELF, WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU ACTUALLY IMPLEMENT, UH, A GRANT TO PROVIDE SERVICES, IT'S VERY SIMILAR. SO WE'RE NOT EXPRESSING ANY KIND OF PREFERENCE FOR CATHOLIC CHARITIES IN THAT REGARD. WE'RE JUST IDENTIFYING CATHOLIC CHARITIES AS THE, AS THE GROUP THAT'S BEEN CONTRACTED TO ADMINISTER THIS REGIONAL APPROACH. MM-HMM. CONTINUE. SO, SO THE, THIS, YOU CONTINUING THIS SORT OF METAPHOR OF A FIXED SYSTEM WITH, UH, AN OPPORTUNITY. THE LEVERS THAT WE HAVE ARE, UH, TO ADJUST THE INFLOW AND TO ADJUST THE OUTFLOW. BUT WITHOUT, UM, MAKING THOSE ADJUSTMENTS, WHAT WE WILL EXPERIENCE IS THE VOLUME OF UNHOUSED PEOPLE, OF PEOPLE ON THE STREET WILL CONTINUE TO INCREASE. AND THIS IS THE PROJECTED 6% INCREASE ANNUALLY AND VISUALLY SHOWING, UM, THAT THERE ARE STRATEGIES, UM, THAT COULD REDUCE THE OVERALL PREVALENCE OF HOMELESSNESS. UM, AND THESE ARE RENT SUBSIDIES, THESE ARE NAVIGATION SUPPORTS, UM, OUTREACH AND ENGAGEMENT. UM, ALL OF THOSE HAVE BEEN PROVEN IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS TO ACTUALLY REDUCE HOMELESSNESS. BUT IN THE ABSENCE OF THOSE AS EFFECTIVE PROGRAMS, CURRENTLY, YOU'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO SEE INCREASES IN VISIBLE STREET HOMELESSNESS IN SEDONA. MATT, COULDN'T THE REVERSE BE TRUE, WHEREBY HAVING THE SERVICES IN A PARTICULAR CITY, IT WOULD ATTRACT MORE PEOPLE FROM OTHER AREAS BECAUSE THEY WANT THE SERVICES? MM-HMM. . AND THEY'RE GONNA COME TO WHERE THE SERVICES ARE. IT'S A, IT'S A REALLY INTERESTING QUESTION, AND WE DID LOOK AT THAT. UM, THE EVIDENCE, IF WE WANNA START TO LOOKING AT [02:35:01] THE SLIDES WITH THE EVIDENCE, UM, DEMONSTRATES THAT THERE'S NOT A MAGNET EFFECT OR THIS ATTRACTION EFFECT, UM, THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT. AND IN STUDIES THAT HAVE LOOKED AT MIGRATION PATTERNS, UM, AND LOOKED AT DIFFERENCES IN HOW COMMUNITIES ARE STRUCTURED WITH VERY RICH, DEEP SUBSIDIES AND SERVICES, VERSUS COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE VERY MINIMAL OR LIGHT TOUCH SERVICES, THERE ISN'T AN APPRECIABLE DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF THE ATTRACTION THAT THAT CAUSES. UM, AND I THINK THAT SPEAKS TO THE NATURE OF HOMELESSNESS ITSELF. PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS ARE EXPERIENCING EXTREME POVERTY AND OFTEN LACK THE KIND OF EXECUTIVE FUNCTIONING BECAUSE THEY'RE IN CRISIS MODE. WHERE WILL I SLEEP? HOW WILL I STAY SAFE? HOW WILL I FIX MY FOOD? HOW WILL I BATHE? SO WHEN YOU'RE NAVIGATING THOSE KINDS OF QUESTIONS, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO THINK, I'M GONNA RELOCATE TO A DIFFERENT JURISDICTION BECAUSE THE SERVICES THAT IN MY PERCEPTION ARE AVAILABLE THERE ARE BETTER THAN THE SERVICES IN MY, IN WHERE I LIVE CURRENTLY. AND NOT. AND IF THEY DID HAVE THAT THOUGHT, THEY DON'T HAVE THE ECONOMIC MEANS TO ACTUALLY, UNLESS THEY'RE THUMBING IT, THEY DON'T HAVE THE ECONOMIC MEANS, UH, TO MAKE THAT, TO MAKE THAT CHANGE. WHAT WE FOUND IN LOOKING AT STUDIES, 'CAUSE WE WANTED TO REALLY UNDERSTAND THIS QUESTION AROUND MIGRATION, UM, THAT THERE'S, UH, UH, AND I THINK WE CITED IN THE REPORT, UM, THAT THERE WAS NOT AN APPRECIABLE, UH, UH, ATTRACTION OR MAGNET EFFECT BY INVESTING IN SERVICES. AND IN FACT, WHAT THAT DOES IS IT REDUCES THE AMOUNT OF HOMELESSNESS BECAUSE YOU'RE, YOU ARE ENGAGING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY EXPERIENCING A HOUSING CRISIS AND YOU'RE CONNECTING THEM TO A RESOURCE. SO BY EXPANDING OR STRENGTHENING THE SAFETY NET, YOU'RE ACTUALLY REDUCING, UH, VISIBLE HOMELESSNESS IN THE COMMUNITY, NOT ATTRACTING IT. BRIAN, YOU HAD A COMMENT? QUESTION? QUESTION. SO I COME BACK TO THE, THE DRIFTER AND THE OPPORTUNIST, THE VAN LIFER, YOU MAY NOT CONSIDER THEM PART OF THE EQUATION HERE, RIGHT? BUT ONE OF YOUR SUGGESTIONS IN THE REPORT IS LIKE A MOBILE, UH, SHOWER BUS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I MEAN, IF I'M A VAN LIFER, THAT SOUNDS PRETTY SWEET. MM-HMM. . AND WHY WOULDN'T THAT BECOME A CAUSE OF MIGRATION TO SEDONA IF IT TURNS OUT THAT I CAN LIVE IN MY VAN AND HEY, THEY PROVIDE HOT SHOWERS AND ISN'T THIS GREAT? MM-HMM. . SO ISN'T IT SORT OF A, IT DEPENDS. AND YOU, YOU GOTTA LOOK BEYOND JUST YOUR HOMELESS DEFINITION AT WHO ELSE MIGHT CHOOSE TO MIGRATE FOR SAID SERVICES? I THINK IT'S A, IT'S A USEFUL QUESTION. IN OUR EXPERIENCE, WHEN WE INTERACTED WITH PEOPLE WHO'VE BEEN ON, WHO'VE BEEN IN CAMPS, SLEEPING OUTSIDE, THAT WASN'T THE IMPRESSION AT ALL THAT WE RECEIVED THAT THEY, UM, THAT THEY WERE COMFORTABLE, UM, IN THIS SORT OF VAN LIFESTYLE. WHAT WE HEARD OVER AND OVER AGAIN IS THE COMPLEXITY OF MANAGING DAY-TO-DAY LIFE WHEN YOU'RE NOT SURE WHERE YOU'RE GONNA STORE YOUR BELONGINGS, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A VAN, WHERE YOU'RE GONNA BATHE, UM, HOW YOU'RE GOING TO EAT, HOW YOU'RE GONNA PREPARE FOOD. SO THEY DESCRIBE TO US THE CHALLENGES OF BEING UNSHELTERED, NOT THE BENEFITS OF BEING UNSHELTERED. YEAH. BUT I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF PEOPLE, RIGHT? YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FOLKS THAT PROBABLY DON'T WANT TO BE HOMELESS VERSUS FOLKS THAT ARE FOOTLOOSE AND FANCY FREE LOVING LIFE. MM-HMM. THAT THEY'RE GONNA SPEND THREE MONTHS HERE, SIX MONTHS HERE BECAUSE WE GOT GREAT SERVICES FOR YOU. MM-HMM. . AND I THINK THIS GETS TO THE HEART OF, OF, OF THIS CONVERSATION TODAY. UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU MENTIONED THE, THE RECOMMENDATION TO DO LIKE A MOBILE SHOWER UNIT IN THE CONTEXT OF OUR ASSESSMENT, THAT'S NOT THE RECOMMENDATION. THE RECOMMENDATION IS WE SEE THAT THERE'S A ABSENCE OF ACCESS TO, UM, BASIC NEEDS LIKE HYGIENE. AND SO WE'RE NOT SAYING NECESSARILY THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE, UM, A SHOWER BUS. WE'RE SAYING THERE IS A NEED FOR FOLKS TO MEET THEIR BASIC HYGIENE NEEDS IN THE COMMUNITY. THERE'S A BIG PROGRAMMING QUESTION ABOUT WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? AND WE CAN BE CREATIVE AROUND HOW DO PEOPLE ACCESS THAT? HOW DO YOU QUALIFY FOR THAT? THOSE ARE ALL QUESTIONS THAT CAN BE ANSWERED IN A WAY THAT MAKES SENSE FOR THIS COMMUNITY. UM, AND MAYBE IT'S, IF YOU ARE WORKING IN SEDONA, I KNOW THE, UM, PRIOR PROPOSAL FOR THE SAFE PARKING PROGRAM THAT DIDN'T, THAT DIDN'T GO FORWARD WAS FOR PEOPLE WORKING IN SEDONA. UM, THAT, THAT CREATES A CRITERIA THAT, UH, TIES PEOPLE TO SOMETHING MORE THAN JUST BEING [02:40:01] HERE PHYSICALLY. NOT SAYING THAT AS A RECOMMENDATION, BUT, UH, THE POINT IS, WE, WE SEE THAT THERE'S AN ABSENCE OF ACCESS TO, TO BASIC NEEDS IN THE REGION. AND PART OF THE REASON WE WOULD RECOMMEND IT IS IT PARTLY A, YOU KNOW, HUMANITY THING. BUT, BUT LARGELY IN CONTEXT OF THIS ASSESSMENT MEETING YOUR BASIC NEEDS IS GOING TO ACCELERATE YOUR ABILITY TO EXIT OUT OF A CRISIS. AND SO WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT ARE THE TOOLS THAT PEOPLE NEED TO GET A JOB TO SHOW UP, TO MEET UP WITH A LANDLORD THAT THEY'RE HOPING TO RENT FROM. THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT, UM, WE WERE TRYING TO LEAD INTO HERE. GOOD. BRIAN? OKAY. CONTINUE. SO AS WE, UM, BEGIN TO CONSIDER, AS JONATHAN SAID, TO IDENTIFY POSSIBLE STRATEGIES OR SOLUTIONS THAT RESONATE WITH YOU THAT ARE A GOOD FIT, THAT ARE IN ALIGNMENT WITH, UM, YOUR VISION FOR SEDONA. UM, WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE, UH, CONSIDERING EVIDENCE RESEARCH DATABASE SOLUTIONS OR NATIONAL BEST PRACTICES THAT, UM, CAN INFORM THE KINDS OF INTERVENTIONS OR PROJECTS OR, UH, OBJECTIVES THAT ARE GONNA HAVE THE GREATEST IMPACT. SO WE'VE JUST INCLUDED THEM HERE IN A COUPLE OF SLIDES TO INFORM THE CONVERSATION. SO THE FIRST QUESTION IS, WHAT FACTORS PREDICT HOMELESSNESS? AND THAT ASTERISK MEANS THAT IT'S VERY STRONGLY PREDICTIVE OR IT'S REPLICATED IN MULTIPLE STUDIES, PREVIOUS HOMELESSNESS. SO ONCE SOMEONE IS HOMELESS FOR THE FIRST TIME, THAT SORT OF PLANTS THIS INSIDIOUS SEED THAT, UM, THAT THERE'S A, A A THAT BECOMES PART OF THE STRATEGY FOR MANAGING A CRISIS IN THE FUTURE. SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE CONSIDER AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE OPPORTUNITIES TO PREVENT HOMELESSNESS, UM, OR BE, SO WE, WE DON'T WANNA SOCIALIZE THE IDEA THAT THAT IS, THAT, UM, THAT, UM, THAT TAKING ADVANTAGE OR THAT ACCESSING SERVICES IS JUST A REGULAR DAY-TO-DAY OCCURRENCE FOR SOMEONE WHO'S EXTREMELY POOR. OTHER FACTORS THAT PREDICT HOMELESSNESS, UM, AS I SAID BEFORE, THAT ONE TIME CRISIS EVENT, FAMILY CONFLICT. UM, PEOPLE WHO ARE DOUBLED UP, WHO AREN'T THE LEASE HOLDER BUT ARE STAYING WITH A FRIEND OR A FAMILY WHO DON'T CONTROL THEIR OWN HOUSING ARE HIGHLY, UH, VULNERABLE TO BEING ASKED TO LEAVE. AND THEN THEY HAVE TO FIND ACCOMMODATION. UM, HIGH LEVELS OF DEBT, UH, EITHER PAST EVICTIONS OR PAST DEBT OR REGS ARE ALSO A PREDICTOR OF HOMELESSNESS. WHAT FACTORS PROTECT PEOPLE FROM HOMELESSNESS? THESE ARE NOT STRONG PREDICTORS OF HOMELESSNESS, BUT ACTUALLY HELP PEOPLE, UM, TO MAINTAIN A GOOD TENANCY OR GOOD, UH, RESIDENTIAL STABILITY. AND THAT'S INCOME. THE NUMBER ONE PROTECTIVE FACTOR IS INCOME. SO THAT HAS TO BE PART OF A REALLY USEFUL PREVENTION STRATEGY IS GETTING PEOPLE WHO ARE WILLING AND ABLE TO WORK CONNECTED TO JOBS OR BENEFITS IF THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO WORK, THAT WILL ENSURE THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO MAINTAIN HOUSING, TO PAY THE RENT, OR TO MAINTAIN WHATEVER HOST HOME OR SHARED LIVING ARRANGEMENT THEY HAVE NEGOTIATED THAT. AND LOCAL FAMILY SUPPORTS OR OTHER SOCIAL NETWORKS IS ALSO A PREDICTOR OF, OF LONG-TERM SUCCESS. WHAT FACTORS ARE NOT CAUSALLY RELATED TO HOMELESSNESS? SO THIS DOES NOT CAUSE HOMELESSNESS, THE STRENGTH, THE QUALITY OF THE REACH OF YOUR HOMELESSNESS SYSTEM. AND THIS, AGAIN, IN RESEARCH STUDIES THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT THE STRENGTH OF THE SYSTEM, THE BREADTH OF THE SYSTEM, THE QUALITY OF THE SYSTEM IS, DOES NOT HAVE A MAGNET EFFECT. UM, I, IT WOULD BE, I WOULD LIKE TO BE PROVEN WRONG THAT SEDONA IS A UNIQUE ANIMAL THAT DOESN'T FIT THE PARADIGM AND THE WAY THAT THESE STUDIES HAVE BEEN DONE, AND MAYBE THAT, UH, WILL, UH, HAS YET TO BE SHOWN. UM, BUT THE STUDIES THAT LOOK AT MIGRATION PATTERNS AND WHY PEOPLE ARE MOVING PREVIOUS ZIP CODE IMMEDIATELY BEFORE THEY, UM, COME TO A HOMELESS PROJECT SUGGESTS THAT THE QUALITY OF THE, THE, THE REACH, THE INVESTMENT THAT YOU'VE MADE IN YOUR SAFETY NET HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH ATTRACTING PEOPLE TO THE COMMUNITY. THE OTHER THING THAT'S NOT CAUSALLY RELATED IS BEHAVIORAL HEALTH. WE KNOW THAT MENTAL ILLNESS, THAT SUBSTANCE USE DOES NOT CAUSE HOMELESSNESS, BUT IT DEFINITELY EXACERBATES THOSE ISSUES SO THAT ONCE SOMEONE IS EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS, THEY'RE MUCH MORE LIKELY TO EXPERIENCE, UM, GREATER TRAUMA INCREASED, UH, OR MORE CHALLENGING BEHAVIORAL HEALTH CONCERNS, UH, UH, UNSAFE BEHAVIORS AROUND THEIR MENTAL ILLNESS OR SUBSTANCE USE. IT'S NOT CAUSING HOMELESSNESS, BUT IT'S EXACERBATING OR IT'S EXTENDING THE PERIOD OF TIME THAT PEOPLE MIGHT BE HOMELESS WHEN THERE IS A BEHAVIORAL HEALTH ISSUE. WHAT INTERVENTIONS PREVENT IMMINENT HOMELESSNESS, DISCHARGE PLANNING FROM PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS. WE SPOKE TO A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO, UH, SPENT SOME TIME IN INCARCERATION AND AFTER INCARCERATION, IT'S VERY CHALLENGING TO INTEGRATE, UH, BACK INTO THE COMMUNITY. SO THAT IS ALSO ONE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE DISCHARGE PLANNING OR COORDINATION WITH YOUR HOSPITAL SYSTEMS WHO MIGHT BE DISCHARGING PEOPLE AND YOUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. OFTENTIMES THOSE INSTITUTIONS ARE DISCHARGING [02:45:01] PEOPLE DIRECTLY TO THE STREET AND DIVERSION BY HOMELESS SYSTEMS. DIVERSION IS, UH, A A AN INTERACTION WHERE YOU'RE ENGAGING SOMEONE IN KIND OF A PROBLEM SOLVING CONVERSATION TO HELP, UH, UNDERSTAND WHAT'S THE NATURE OF YOUR IMMEDIATE CRISIS AND WHAT RESOURCES OR SUPPORTS CAN I PROVIDE TO HELP YOU NAVIGATE OUT OF THAT. AND THAT CAN BE FINANCIAL SUPPORTS, IT CAN BE COUNSELING, IT CAN BE RELOCATION ASSISTANCE, BUT ALL OF THAT IS PART OF THAT DIVERSION. DIVERTING THEM FROM HOMELESSNESS OR FROM FURTHER HOMELESSNESS. ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE IN TERMS OF REHOUSING, WHAT INTERVENTIONS ACCELERATE EXITS FROM HOMELESSNESS ARE GONNA HELP PEOPLE AND THEIR HOMELESSNESS. NUMBER ONE IS HOUSING SUBSIDIES. IF SOMEONE HAS A SUBSIDY, A HOUSING CHOICE VOUCHER, UM, OR SOME OTHER KIND OF, UH, UH, SUBSIDIZED HOUSING, IT'S A STRONG PROTECTIVE FACTOR THAT WILL HELP THEM RESOLVE THEIR HOMELESSNESS AND MOVE AND MAINTAIN THAT, UH, HOUSING STABILITY FOR THE LONG TERM. WHAT STRATEGY SUPPORT, HOUSING PLACEMENT TO HELP PEOPLE FIND THAT HOUSING, AGAIN, DIVERSION, THIS DIRECT TO HOUSING OR RAPID REHOUSING. AND THIS IS A MODEL THAT'S BEEN, UH, REPLICATED ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND OTHER COMMUNITIES AND, UM, WITH GREAT SUCCESS WHERE YOU SECURE RENTAL UNITS AND THEN YOU PROVIDE THAT RENTAL UNIT TO THE PERSON WHO'S EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS WITH A SHORT TERM SUBSIDY AS A TRANSITION PERIOD WHILE THEY, UH, BE THEY LEARN TENANCY OR IMPROVE THEIR TENANCY SKILLS AND ARE ABLE TO MANAGE THAT, THAT UNIT ON THEIR OWN. ALRIGHT. BUT MATT, YEAH, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT YOU DON'T THINK BY DOING THAT, BY PROVIDING RENTAL UNITS, IT'S NOT GOING TO ATTRACT AS YOU, YOU STATED TWO SLIDES BEFORE THAT IT WOULD NOT ATTRACT PEOPLE. PART OF THE, UM, THE WAY THAT IT IS, UH, MADE TO BE EFFECTIVE, AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT SEEING THIS IN OTHER COMMUNITIES DONE EFFECTIVELY IS THROUGH THE COORDINATED ENTRY SYSTEM, THERE'S A, A FEATURE COORDINATED ENTRY THAT IS TO PRIORITIZE. AND SO YOU DON'T SAY, EVERYBODY WHO WALKS INTO A COMMUNITY IS GONNA GET A HOUSING SUBSIDY, SAY, WELL, YOU NEED TO DETERMINE ELIGIBILITY. UH, USUALLY YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE LEVEL OF, UH, DISABILITY LEVEL OF NEED. AND SO IT'S TAILORING INTERVENTIONS BASED ON WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN THAT ASSESSMENT, UM, TO DETERMINE WHO'S GONNA GET WHAT. AND THEN, UM, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THIS CLOSED SYSTEM INFLOW, THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD SHOW UP AS TRANSITIONALLY HOMELESS OR EPISODICALLY HOMELESS, THEY'D BE CAUGHT IN THIS, UH, SIDE OF THINGS. THAT'S DIVERSION. LIKE, LET'S HELP YOU FIND A JOB. WE HAVE PROGRAMS THAT CONNECT TO THOSE RESOURCES, LET'S HELP YOU GET BACK TO WHERE YOU, YOUR FAMILY IS. AND SO IT'S NOT THAT SOMEONE CAN WALK IN AND ACCESS A HOUSING SUBSIDY, IT'S THAT THERE'S A COORDINATED SHARED DIRECTION ON HOW TO MATCH PEOPLE APPROPRIATELY AND THAT THAT DOESN'T CARRY THE NARRATIVE THAT YOU'RE JUST GONNA GET A FREEBIE FROM COMING TO TOWN. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY. OKAY. IT'S, IT'S LIKELY THAT THAT TRANSITIONAL POPULATION THAT WE SPOKE ABOUT EARLIER, THAT 60% OF THE POPULATION, THEY'RE NOT GONNA GET THE RENTAL SUBSIDY. THEY'RE NOT GONNA GET THE RELOCATION ASSISTANCE THAT THE FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE, THAT'S NOT WHO THAT INTERVENTION IS TARGETED TO. SO YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE NOT ATTRACTING PEOPLE BECAUSE THAT'S, THOSE ARE THE NEWLY THE PEOPLE WHO FOUND THEMSELVES HOMELESS FOR THE FIRST TIME. UM, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT WHO THE RAPID REHOUSING IS TYPICALLY, UH, DIRECTED TO. I UNDERSTAND. THANK YOU. THE FINAL QUESTION, WHAT STRATEGIES DO NOT GENERALLY RESOLVE HOMELESSNESS? THERE'S ALSO QUITE A BIT OF RESEARCH ON WHAT DOESN'T WORK, UM, AND COMMUNITIES. AND IN FACT, THIS STUDY HAS JUST BEEN PUBLISHED THIS JUST, JUST THIS YEAR, A HUNDRED COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT INSTITUTED SOME KIND OF CITATION OR PUNITIVE MEASURE FOR, UM, LOITERING, UH, PUBLIC CAMPING. UM, SOMETHING TO DO WITH HOMELESSNESS COMPARED TO A HUNDRED COMMUNITIES THAT DID NOT HAVE ANY KIND OF PUNITIVE OR CRIMINALIZATION, UM, ON THE BOOKS. AND IN FACT, THE COMMUNITIES THAT, THAT, UH, THAT HAD SOME KIND OF CITATION OR CRIMINALIZATION COMPONENT EXPERIENCED A SLIGHT UPTICK IN HOMELESSNESS. AND THE, THE OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT DID NOT HAVE THESE MEASURES, UM, WERE ABLE TO REDUCE THEIR HOMELESS. SO, SO ADDING THAT ELEMENT TO THE SYSTEM ISN'T AN EFFECTIVE STRATEGY IF YOUR INTEREST IS IN REDUCING OVERALL HOMELESSNESS, IT JUST EXACERBATES THE EXPERIENCE OF HOMELESSNESS. OKAY. THANK YOU. GREAT. COULD MAYOR, I'D LIKE TO GO BACK TO YOUR, UH, BATHTUB SLIDES , WHICH I THOUGHT WAS A REALLY INTERESTING WAY TO FRAME INPUT AND OUTPUT MANAGEMENT. THE FIRST ONE I IS, UH, AIMED AT GOING FOR THE FIRST TIMERS AS [02:50:01] SHORT TERM MM-HMM. , I LOOK AT THESE AS BEING KINDA ONETIME EXPENSES VERSUS THE NEXT SLIDE LOOKS MORE LIKE ONGOING EXPENSES EXACTLY. IN A WELL-DESIGNED PROGRAM. MM-HMM. , WHAT'S THE SPEND OF THE MONEY IN THESE ONETIME VERSUS ONGOING? HOW MUCH YOU KNOW OF, OF YOUR PROGRAM DOLLARS, HOW MUCH ARE YOU PUTTING INTO THE ONE TIME PROGRAMS VERSUS THE ONGOING PROGRAMS? MM-HMM. , THE, THE ONE TIME ARE THE, THE LARGEST NUMBER, THE THE LARGEST PROPORTION. AND IT'S RELATIVELY SPEAKING A SMALL AMOUNT OF MONEY. EXACTLY. AND YOU GET THE BIGGEST BANG FOR YOUR DOLLAR. EXACTLY. UM, SO IF YOUR INTEREST IS BROAD REACH WITH LIMITED DOLLARS, THE THOSE, UM, THOSE, UH, UH, INTERVENTIONS DIRECTED TO THE TRANSITIONALLY HOMELESS, UM, ARE HAVING, ARE, ARE LIKELY GONNA HAVE AN IMPACT ON REDUCING OVERALL HOMELESSNESS. BUT IN TERMS OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE EXPERIENCING THE MOST SEVERE HOMELESSNESS, THE MOST DISABLED, THE MOST, UM, HAVE THE, THE HIGH, THE MOST SEVERE SERVICE NEEDS, THOSE, UH, LIGHT TOUCH INTERVENTIONS, UM, MIGHT BE MINIMALLY IN, UH, BENEFICIAL BUT NOT ULTIMATELY GONNA END THEIR HOMELESSNESS. RIGHT. SO DO YOU HAVE A WAY TO JUST CHUNK OUT A NUMBER ON A WELL DESIGNED PROGRAM? HOUSTON, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU ARE PROUD OF THOSE NUMBERS THERE. HOW MUCH WOULD YOU BE SPENDING PERCENTAGE WISE, OF THE TOTAL PROGRAM BUDGET ON THE ONE TIME VERSUS THE ONGOING SUPPORT? I, I THINK OF IT AS A COST PER PERSON. UM, THE, THAT ONE TIME, UH, MAYBE YOU HAVE A FLEX FUND THAT GIVES YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO BUY A BUS TICKET OR CAR REPAIR OR, UH, YOU KNOW, TO PROVIDE WHATEVER IT IS, YOU KNOW, CERTIFICATIONS OR DOCUMENTATION THAT THEY NEED TO, TO GET BACK ON THEIR FEET. IT'S A NOMINAL AMOUNT. IN SOME COMMUNITIES IT'S A COUPLE HUNDRED DOLLARS. UM, IN OTHER COMMUNITIES IT'S UP TO A THOUSAND DOLLARS PER HOUSEHOLD IS WHAT YOU'RE BUDGETING FOR THAT, FOR THAT INTERVENTION. PRESUMABLY YOU TOUCH MANY MORE PEOPLE IN THAT SEGMENT, AND SO YOU'RE SPENDING LESS MONEY ON MORE PEOPLE AND MORE MONEY ON LESS PEOPLE. AND I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW THAT BALANCES . THE CALCULUS IS, AND I THINK THIS IS WHERE YOU'RE GOING, THE CALCULUS IS YOU, UH, BY, BY SPREADING THE MONEY AS THIN AS POSSIBLE, YOU HAVE BROAD REACH. BUT IF YOUR INTEREST IS REDUCING THE VISIBLE HOMELESSNESS, THE, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SEEN ON THE STREET THAT ARE FLYING THE SIGNS THAT ARE THE REASON THAT YOU'RE GETTING CALLS FROM CONSTITUENTS OR THE, THE, THE, THE WHAT FEELS TO BE SO INCONSISTENT WITH THE CHARACTER OF SEDONA, WHEN YOU SEE VISIBLE PEOPLE ON THE STREET THAT'S LIKELY NOT GONNA HAVE THE IMPACT THAT YOU, IF YOU DIRECTED ALL OF YOUR INNER YOUR RESOURCES TO THAT, THOSE ONE-TIME INTERVENTIONS, IT'S NOT LIKELY GONNA HAVE AN IMPACT THERE. OKAY. I'LL STOP PUSHING ON THAT. LET ME ASK A DIFFERENT QUESTION. THAT GOES BACK TO YOUR EARLY SLIDE ABOUT, I THINK THAT WAS HOUSTON, 35,000 HOUSEHOLDS. MM-HMM. , UH, HELPED. AND, AND ONE OF YOUR MEASURES OF REDUCING THAT VOLUME IS PUTTING PEOPLE INTO SUPPORTIVE HOUSING. MM-HMM. . AND YOU CALL THAT A SUCCESS, AND I THINK THAT IS A SUCCESS, BUT ANOTHER MEASURE OF SUCCESS IS HOW MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE ACTUALLY GRADUATE OUT TO NOT NEEDING SUPPORTIVE SERVICES? MM-HMM. AND WHAT WOULD THAT NUMBER BE? MM-HMM. IN A HOUSTON EXAMPLE, I THINK IT IN TERMS OF IF WE'RE USING THAT TERM SORT OF GRADUATE, UM, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT, UM, INTERMEDIATE TERM PROJECTS, SO IT'S NOT A PERMANENT INTERVENTION, AND AT THE END OF THAT INTERVENTION PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO MAINTAIN THEIR HOUSING OR INTEGRATE BACK TO THE COMMUNITY AND WE DON'T SEE THEM AGAIN, THAT GRADUATION RATE OR THAT SUCCESS RATE IS ANYWHERE BETWEEN 75 TO 85%. IS THAT, I THINK IN HOUSTON IT'S CLOSER TO 90, 90%. OKAY. UM, THE, THE, THE GRADUATION RATE VARIES FROM KIND OF A MID-LEVEL OF SUPPORT TO THE, THE SUPPORT THAT WE HAVE FOR LIKE CHRONICALLY HOMELESS INDIVIDUALS. SO, UH, FOLKS WHO ARE CHRONICALLY HOMELESS, UH, FRANKLY NOT EVEN GRADUATE, THEY DON'T GRADUATE. MM-HMM. . AND, AND THAT'S PART OF THE, THE, THE DESIGN, UH, AND THE FUNDING THAT THIS IS, UM, THESE ARE FOLKS WHO, IF THEY'RE UNHOUSED, ARE GOING TO BE, UM, COST COSTING THE COMMUNITY IN DIFFERENT WAYS. AND SO IT'S MAKING AN INVESTMENT TO SAY THIS, THIS GROUP OF THE POPULATION, THEY HAVE HIGHER NEEDS, THEY NEED A LIFELONG SUBSIDY, AND WHILE THEY'RE RECEIVING SERVICES IN HOUSING, THERE'S OPPORTUNITY TO CONNECT THEM TO OTHER MAINSTREAM SUPPORTS LIKE SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICAID, UM, THAT MAYBE CAN USE OTHER STATE OR NATIONAL FUNDS TO TRANSITION SOME THEM OFF SOME OF THE EXPENSES. BUT IT'S A, IT'S A LONG TERM INVESTMENT. UM, THE RETENTION [02:55:01] RATE IN HOUSTON FOR FOLKS WHO ARE CHRONICALLY HOMELESS AND, AND PERMANENT SUPPORTIVE HOUSING IS AROUND 85%. BUT WHEN WE LOOK AT THESE SHORT AND MEDIUM TERM RENTAL SUBSIDIES AND RAPID REHOUSING PROGRAMS, UH, THAT NUMBER IS CLOSER TO 90% THAT FOLKS ARE EXITING INTO, UH, PO POSITIVE EXITS IS KIND OF A BROAD TERM, BUT NOT RETURNING BACK TO HOMELESSNESS, BUT RE GOING INTO YOU'RE RIGHT, ABSOLUTELY. ANOTHER LIVING SITUATION. AND THAT, THAT VARIES. SO THE, AND THE WHOLE POINT OF THE RAPID REHOUSING MODEL IS YOU SPEND ONE TO TWO YEARS, UM, TAILORING, LIKE, WHAT DOES THE NEXT CHAPTER OF LIFE LOOK LIKE? IT MIGHT BE YOU, YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY SAY, I CAN'T DO AN APARTMENT OF MY OWN, I'M GONNA GO MOVE BACK WITH FAMILY. BUT IT'S BRIDGING PEOPLE INTO A LIVING SITUATION WHERE THEY HAVE STABILITY FOR A PERIOD OF TIME TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT NEXT STEP IS GONNA BE. SO SUCCESS VARIES. YES, SIR. IN THAT CONTEXT AMONGST THAT POPULATION, THAT'S A BIGGER NUMBER THAN I WOULD'VE ACTUALLY EXPECTED. SO THAT'S INTERESTING TO THINK ABOUT. I WOULD AT SOME POINT LIKE TO CALL OUR DEPUTY CHIEF UP, ASK HIM SOME QUESTIONS, BUT YEAH. YEAH. I'M WAY AHEAD OF YOU . HE HAS A LOT OF EXPERIENCE. THEN I, I GUESS I DID WANNA ASK TOO, WE HAD SOME INTERACTION WITH OUR JUDGE RECENTLY, OUR MAGISTRATE, AND HE MENTIONED NOT BEING INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS. SO I'M KIND OF CURIOUS ABOUT WHETHER YOU HAD A CHANCE TO TALK WITH HIM SINCE YOUR REPORT WAS OUT AND YOU'VE TALKED TO OTHER JUDGES OF MAGISTRATES OR MAYBE YOU KNOW, SOME ABOUT OUR SYSTEM OR NOT. YOU KNOW, WOULD THAT HAVE GIVEN YOU ANY OTHER INSIGHT? WE HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO SPEAK WITH THE JUDGE, BUT, UH, WE DID RECEIVE THE QUESTION, UH, PREPARING FOR TODAY THAT, THAT IT MIGHT BE VALUABLE. MM-HMM. AND YES, AND THIS JUST IN, BECAUSE I DID SPEAK WITH THE JUDGE AND, UM, YOU KNOW, HE, HE WAS DESCRIBING HIS WORK WITH THE MU MUNICIPAL COURT AND THAT HE SEES TRANSIENT CYCLE THROUGH THE COURT. THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN RE UH, A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF REPEAT OFFENDER, UH, INDIVIDUALS, UM, THAT DO TEND TO COME, COME THROUGH AND THEY ARE KNOWN. RIGHT? SO THERE'S ABOUT MAYBE EIGHT TO 10 HOMELESS TRANSIENTS THAT DO CYCLE THROUGH THE COURT. UM, THE COURT IS REALLY LIMITED ACCORDING TO THE JUDGE AND WHAT THEY CAN DO. THEY'RE, THEY'RE REALLY, UM, UH, THE INDIVIDUALS CAN BE INCARCERATED, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THAT'S WHAT OCCURS, UM, WHEN THEY ARE INCARCERATED, THEY CAN WORK WITH SPECTRUM BECAUSE SPECTRUM DOES WORK WITHIN THE COURT, WITHIN THE, UM, UH, CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. BUT, UM, IT MUST BE A VOLUNTEER BASIS. IT CANNOT BE COURT MANDATED. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE IDENTIFIED, UM, AS HOMELESS THROUGH THE COMPLAINT, THROUGH THROUGH THE, UH, YOU KNOW, POLICE DEPARTMENT COMPLAINT. THEY DON'T HAVE AN ADDRESS. UM, AND HE DID TEND TO INDICATE THAT IF THERE WAS A PRESENCE HERE WITH A SERVICE PROVIDER OR A COORDINATED SYSTEM SUCH AS SAY A CATHOLIC CHARITIES, THAT THE COURT WOULD HAVE A PLACE TO REFER TO BE ABLE TO REFER FOR SERVICES, BUT THERE'S NO PLACE FOR A REFERRAL FOR THE SERVICES. OKAY. INTERESTING. YEAH. SO, UM, I DID, UM, SUGGEST THAT WE DO CIRCLE BACK WITH THE JUDGE TO INCORPORATE SOME OF THIS INFORMATION INTO THE PLAN. PETE, YOU GOOD? THAT'S GOOD FOR NOW. OKAY. DEREK, YOU WERE NEXT TO THEM. BRIAN. OH, WHY DON'T YOU SIT OVER HERE? . GO AHEAD, DEREK. AND THEN, THEN HOW, SO YOU SAID THAT YOU LOOKED AT THE, UH, COMMUNITIES THAT HAD PUNITIVE MEASURES HAD, UH, FORCED INVOLUNTARY RELOCATION, CITATION, CRIMINALIZATION, AND YOU SAID THAT THAT ACTUALLY MADE THINGS WORSE. IS THAT BECAUSE THOSE APPROACHES DO MAKE THINGS WORSE? OR DO THE COMMUNITIES THAT FOCUS ON THAT NOT HAVE THESE OTHER PROGRAMS? DO YOU, I MEAN, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, CAN YOU DO A LITTLE BIT OF BOTH, YOU KNOW, A CARROT AND THE STICK APPROACH? MM-HMM. , DOES THAT WORK WELL, OR YOU KNOW, WHAT CAN WE, I THINK THAT, UM, I KNOW IN THE RE THE RESEARCH THAT MATT REFERENCED, THERE'S UM, THEY'RE COM THEY'RE COMPARING, UM, I BELIEVE IT WAS ONE OR THE OTHER IN THE RESEARCH THAT YOU WERE LOOKING AT, BUT IN HOUSTON, THEY, THEY DO TAKE THE CARROT IN THE STICK APPROACH, BUT IT HAS ONLY SHOWN TO BE EFFECTIVE WHEN THEY'RE COORDINATED. UH, SO WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE IN HOUSTON IS THAT THEY, THEY HAVE A STRONG, [03:00:01] ROBUST, COORDINATED ENTRY SYSTEM. UM, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT IS ORIENTED TOWARDS. AND SO IF THEY'RE GOING TO DIFFERENT CONTEXTS, IF THEY'RE GOING TO CLEAR AN ENCAMPMENT, UM, THEY'RE ONLY GONNA DO THAT IF THERE'S, UM, HOUSING, PERMANENT HOUSING THROUGH THE COORDINATED ENTRY SYSTEM AVAILABLE. AND SO THEY PLAN IT WITH THE NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE ORGANIZING ALL THIS, UM, TO MAKE SURE THERE'S ENOUGH RENTAL SUBSIDIES, ENOUGH HOUSING UNITS, ENOUGH CASE MANAGEMENT TO SAY, WE'RE GONNA DISPLACE 50 PEOPLE OUT OF THIS ENCAMPMENT. UM, BUT WE DON'T WANNA JUST DISPLACE THEM AND EXACERBATE THEIR ALREADY CHALLENGED CONDITIONS. UH, WE WANT TO REHOUSE THEM. AND, AND SO WE'RE ACTUALLY IMPROVING THE COMMUNITY AND NOT JUST DISPLACING PEOPLE. UM, DISPLACEMENT ITSELF IS, UM, THERE'S BEEN STUDIES THAT SHOW THAT THAT IS, YOU KNOW, THAT WOR THAT WORSENS THE EFFECTS OF THE DIFFERENT CHALLENGES PEOPLE ARE GOING THROUGH, LIKE SUBSTANCE USE, UM, BUT IN THE CONTEXT OF A CLOSED SYSTEM, RIGHT? LIKE YOU COULD HAVE, YOU COULD DO BOTH. AND SO IT'S NOT THAT THEY'RE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE, THAT'S, UM, I, I'LL JUST SAY I WORKED WITH THE, UM, CITY OF CLEVELAND, UM, AND THEIR, UM, PUBLIC SPACE MANAGEMENT, UM, TO DEVELOP A TIME PLACE AND MANNER ORDINANCE THAT DESCRIBES HOW THE COMMUNITY WANTS TO MANAGE THEIR PUBLIC SPACES. UM, AND IT ALLOWS FIRST RESPONDERS TO, UM, TO SAY, THIS IS NOT APPROPRIATE. YOU CAN'T BE HERE. BUT THAT IS PAIRED WITH, AT THE SAME TIME A HOUSING RESOURCE. SO THEY'RE REHOUSING PEOPLE USING THAT BACKSTOP BY SAYING, THIS IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE PLACE TO CAMP, BUT I HAVE AN APARTMENT THAT ISN'T A PLACE FOR YOU, AND WE'RE GONNA HELP YOU TRANSITION TO THAT. AND THEY'VE REDUCED THEIR UNSHELTERED POPULATION IN CLEVELAND, UM, THROUGHOUT THE DOWNTOWN AREA DRAMATICALLY USING THIS POLICY. THANK YOU. VICE MAYOR . SO YOU SAID THAT THE RENTAL SUBSIDY OR, UH, ONE TIME FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE WOULD NOT BE TARGETED TOWARDS THE, UH, LARGEST POPULATION OR THE, THE, THE POPULATION THAT'S NEWLY HOMELESS, WHERE WOULD IT BE TARGETED? THE MIDDLE, THE, THE, THE EPISODIC? YEAH. I'M, I WANNA BE REALLY CLEAR ABOUT THAT. SO INTERMEDIATE TERM RENTAL ASSISTANCE. SO RENTAL ASSISTANCE GETTING SET UP IN A, A NEW UNIT, THE DEPOSIT, THE FIRST MONTH'S RENT, UM, AND THEN MAYBE PAYING THE RENT FOR SIX MONTHS OR EVEN A YEAR. THAT'S RAPID REHOUSING. THAT PROGRAM MODEL IS RAPID REHOUSING, AND THAT'S NOT DIRECTED TO THE TRANSITIONAL 60%, THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE HOMELESS. RIGHT. BUT THAT, THAT TRANSITIONAL POPULATION, THE 60% NUMBER, THEY DO BENEFIT FROM VERY MODEST FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE. THAT COULD BE JUST A DEPOSIT TO HELP THEM GET SET UP IN A, OR MAYBE THEY HAVE A UTILITY BILL THAT THEY HAVE TO PAY SOMETHING, GET UTILITIES TURNED ON. SO FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE DOES COME TO PLAY. UM, AND IT CAN BE REALLY BENEFICIAL, BUT IT'S NOT THAT MORE INTERMEDIATE TERM ONGOING RENTAL ASSISTANCE FOR UP TO SIX MONTHS OR A YEAR THAT THE, THAT IS NOT DIRECTED TO THE TRANSITIONAL GROUP. OKAY. AND MY SECOND QUESTION IS, YOU TALKED ABOUT SEDONA AND THE VERDE VALLEY, AND WE ARE A REGION, AND IF EVERYONE IN THE REGION DOESN'T PLAY TOGETHER, WHAT HAPPENS? AND PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, IF, IF SEDONA SAID WE WANNA DO SOMETHING, BUT NOBODY ELSE STEPS UP THROUGHOUT THE REGION OR ONLY TWO PLACES STEP UP. WHAT, WHAT IS THE IMPACT? MM-HMM. , YOU HAVE FIVE CITIES IN TOWN AND THE COUNTY. MM-HMM. . MM-HMM. A LOT OF DIFFERENT GROUPS WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT IDEAS AND A LOT OF DIFFERENT FI UH, FINANCES. THERE'S TWO, IF WE DID SOMETHING HERE AND IT DIDN'T WORK OUT, WOULD IT PUSH PE, YOU KNOW, THE HOMELESSNESS TO ANOTHER CITY OR TOWN? MM-HMM. OR VICE VERSA? I THINK THERE'S KIND OF TWO ASPECTS TO HOW DO YOU GALVANIZE REGIONALLY. UM, THERE'S KIND OF POLITICAL WILL AND THEN THERE'S THE COORDINATION OF PROVIDERS. MM-HMM. . AND SO THE, THE PROVIDERS THAT WE SPOKE TO THROUGHOUT THE REGION ARE ALL EAGER TO, TO WORK TOGETHER. THEY'RE VERY AWARE THAT THEIR, THEIR CLIENTS MOVE ALL THROUGHOUT THE REGION. POLITICAL WILL IS A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED. I THINK POLITICAL WILL IS VERY USEFUL. AND LIKE I MENTIONED EARLIER, LIKE THE, THE MODEL WHERE YOU HAVE LIKE A, A MAYOR OR A COMMUNITY LEADER KIND OF, UM, SET THE DIRECTION HAS PROVEN TO BE REALLY EFFECTIVE IN MANY COMMUNITIES. THERE HAS TO BE A CHAMPION THAT CAN SAY, WE'RE GOING TO, WE'RE GONNA START TALKING ABOUT HOW TO FUNNEL RESOURCES TO THIS SHARED APPROACH, MAYBE SETTING [03:05:01] OUTCOMES AND GOALS THAT ARE AMBITIOUS FOR THE REGION TO SAY LIKE A CALL TO ACTION. UH, NOT ALL REGIONS PLAY WELL TOGETHER, BUT WE DON'T NECESSARILY NEED, UM, ALL THE TOWNS TO POLITICALLY TO SAY WE'RE GONNA DO THIS. WE NEED A DIRECTION SETTER AND NONPROFITS THAT ARE, UH, EAGER TO SEE SOMETHING DIFFERENT. AND I THINK THAT THAT EXISTS. KATHY? OH NO, I'M SORRY. UH, BRIAN FIRST AND THEN YOU, OKAY. ON THE PACKET ON PAGE 104, EXHIBIT 15, YOU INDICATE THAT THERE'S 28 EMERGENCY SHELTER BEDS IN SEDONA. WHO, WHO ARE THEY AND WHERE ARE THEY? THAT WAS NEWS TO ME. THE ONLY EMERGENCY SHELTER IN SEDONA IS HOPE HOUSE. AND THIS IS A RESIDENTIAL STYLE FAMILY, UH, SHELTER FOR WOMEN AND CHILDREN. AND THE, THE NUMBER 28 COMES FROM SOMETHING CALLED THE HOUSING INVENTORY COUNT. SO THIS IS THE NUMBER REPORTED IN THE HMIS SYSTEM THAT, UH, IT'S BASED ON, UM, ESSENTIALLY WHAT THEY REPORT ON ONE DAY OF THE YEAR THAT, UH, IS WHO THEY'RE HOUSING ON THAT DAY. AND THAT'S USED AS A BENCH, UH, INDICATOR FOR WHAT THE CAPACITY IS FOR THE YEARS OVER TIME. UM, SO IT IS HOPE HOUSE AND IT'S, I, I THINK IT'S IN WEST SEDONA. UM, AND I, THE 28 NUMBER SEEMS A LITTLE HIGH TO ME BECAUSE IT'S UM MM-HMM. , THEY HOUSE THREE FAMILIES. BUT, UM, THE HICK IS JUST, IT'S JUST A KIND OF A BENCHMARK INDICATOR. OKAY. SO YOU'RE NOT SAYING THAT IT'S 28 BEDS AT HOPE HOUSE? 'CAUSE THAT'S NOT REALISTIC. THEY HAVE 28 BEDS THERE. THAT'S NOT YEAH, THEY ONLY HAVE THREE BEDROOMS. YEAH. YEAH. AND, AND SO I, THAT, THAT NUMBER, UM, FEELS MISLEADING, BUT I KNOW THAT HOPE HOUSE IS THE ONLY EMERGENCY SHELTER AND SOME, AND HI DATA IS KIND OF NOTORIOUSLY, UM, HARD TO WORK WITH. SO IT, I DON'T THINK IT'S SAYING THERE'S 28 SHELTER BEDS. IT'S, IT'S JUST HOW THEY CAPTURE THE HOPE HOUSE IN THIS SURVEY THAT THEY DO ONCE A YEAR. I THINK THAT, I MEAN, THAT'S FOR FAMILIES AND, AND MOTHERS. USUALLY IT'S NOT FOR INDIVIDUALS. IT'S NOT FOR MALES, AND IT IS AN EMERGENCY. IT'S USUALLY THROUGH THE SCHOOLS. I'VE BEEN IN THERE NUMEROUS TIMES AND IT'S, THERE'S NOWHERE NEAR THAT THAT NUMBER COULD BE ACCURATE. SOMETIMES THEY INCLUDE IN THE HIT COUNT A NUMBER OF WHAT THEY CALL NON CONGREGATE SHELTER BEDS, LIKE MOTEL VOUCHERS. AND SO THAT COULD BE, IT COULD BE A FACTOR IN THE FUNDING THAT EXPLAINS THAT. WE, WE CAN LOOK FURTHER INTO THAT TO, WELL, YEAH, I WOULDN'T GO, I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT YOU YOU'RE SHARING WITH US RIGHT NOW, SO. SURE. AND, AND THIS MAY BE A GENIE QUESTION, WHERE ARE WE WITH LIKE THE, UH, COLD WEATHER VOUCHER, UH, THE CODE BLUE, WHATEVER WE WANNA CALL THAT, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S HAPPENING IN THE WINTER OF 24, 25 OR SO? UM, WE, WE ACTUALLY HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO CREATE A PARTNERSHIP WITH A HOTEL. UM, HOTELS HAD BEEN REACHED OUT TO, BUT TO DATE, WE HAVE JUST HAD ZERO INTEREST IN MOVING FORWARD WITH THAT PARTICULAR PROGRAM. SEDONA HOTELS, OR HAVE YOU LOOKED WIDER THAN SEDONA? WE'VE ACTUALLY LIMITED IT TO WITHIN SEDONA. YEAH, I WAS GONNA ASK THAT QUESTION ALSO. I THINK YOU NEED TO LOOK BROADER THAN SEDONA. I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT, TO MO MONIQUE AND SEE IF WE CAN CONTRACT WITH HOTELS OUTSIDE SEDONA. IS, IS THAT A GIFTING THING, ANYTHING TO DO WITH, UH, OUTSIDE? IS THERE A LIMIT WITH THE VOC OR COTTONWOOD IN GENERAL? THE GIFT CLOSETS? IT'S TWO PART. UH, THE FIRST PART IS PUBLIC PURPOSE AND ANYTHING RELATED TO HOUSING WOULD MEET THE PUBLIC PURPOSE. THE SECOND PART IS, IS THE CONSIDERATION THAT THE CITY RECEIVES IN ADVANCE GROSSLY DISPROPORTIONATE, IE ARE WE SPENDING MORE THAN WE'RE GETTING? AND SO THERE'S SOME FLEXIBILITY THERE, BUT IT WOULD HAVE TO BE EVALUATED. SO WE CAN'T, YOU KNOW, JUST ALLOW, YOU KNOW, LIKE HOUSING VOUCHERS FOR, YOU KNOW, COTTONWOOD THAT DON'T, DON'T HAVE ANY NEXUS TO SEDONA. SO WE'D HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, CRAFT IT SO THAT THERE IS SOME BENEFIT THAT'S NOT GROSSLY DISPROPORTIONAL. WELL, I I ALSO LIKE TO HAVE THE DEPUTY CHIEF COME UP ON WHEN IT'S TIME TO ADDRESS THAT, UH, TOPIC AS WELL. PETE AND I AGREE. I THINK THE OTHERS AS WELL. I'M STILL GOING. NO, NO, I'M GOING BACK TO YOU. OH, GO AHEAD. DID YOU HAVE A TAG ON THAT? YEAH, I JUST, I DO. OKAY. WHICH I, I HAVE SPOKEN [03:10:01] TO KURT ABOUT THIS AND HE SAID, WHETHER IT'S IN SEDONA OR OUT OF SEDONA, HAVE TO PROVE THE THINGS THAT YOU JUST SAID. IT'S NOT ABOUT WHERE THE HOTEL IS LOCATED, IT'S ABOUT WHETHER THE PROGRAM MEETS THOSE CRITERIA. OKAY. AND, AND ONE, ONE OTHER THING I I WOULD ADD FOR THE GIFT CLAUSE, IT HAS TO BE A, A DIRECT BENEFIT TO THE CITY, NOT AN INDIRECT BENEFIT. AND SOME DIRECT BENEFITS WOULD BE, UM, PUBLIC SAFETY, THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, IT COULD EASE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE POLICE CALL OUTS, UH, SO THAT THERE ARE SOME THINGS, UM, BUT IT'S WITHIN LIMIT. UM, IT WOULDN'T BE, UM, YOU KNOW, EXTRAVAGANTLY EXPENSIVE PROGRAM. I MEAN THAT GROSSLY DISPROPORTIONATE, UH, THOSE ARE PRETTY HIGH DOLLAR PROJECTS. SO WE, WE HAVE SOME, SOME FLEXIBILITY AS LONG AS IT'S A DIRECT BENEFIT TO THE CITY OF SEDONA. OKAY, BACK TO THE PACKET. UH, PAGE, LEMME JUST ADD LAST, LAST BIT ON THIS WINTER IS HERE . AND SO THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME, UH, ALL SPEED TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER WE CAN GET A PROGRAM WORKING FOR THIS WINTER OR NOT. I WOULD THINK THAT WE, WE NEED TO DO THAT WORK NOW YESTERDAY. OKAY, BRIAN. OKAY. UH, BACK ON THE PACKET, PAGE 114, EXHIBIT 23, ESTIMATED ADDITIONAL SYSTEM INVESTMENT NEEDED JUST UNDER $12 MILLION SO CALL IT 12 MILLION, UM, TO SUPPORT 600 PEOPLE. THE VICE MAYOR JUST BROUGHT UP THE NOTION OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT, IF NOT EVERYBODY WANTS TO PLAY. UM, BUT EVEN IF EVERYBODY WANTED TO PLAY, THAT'S $20,000 PER PERSON PER YEAR. THAT'S A LITTLE BREATHTAKING TO ME. MM-HMM. , UM, THAT'S A VERDE VALLEY NUMBER, RIGHT? NOT A SEDONA NUMBER. IS THAT RIGHT? IT, YOU'RE RIGHT. BUT IT STILL WORKS OUT TO $20,000 PER PERSON. YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT. SO HOW IS IT THAT THE COMMUNITY SHOULD THINK ABOUT THAT? WHY IS THAT A GOOD EXPENDITURE OF RESOURCES TO SPEND $20,000 PER PERSON, PER YEAR ON AN ONGOING BASIS IN PERPETUITY? WELL, I THINK THE, THE FIRST THING IS GOING BACK TO THE, THE BREAKDOWN OF KIND OF THE HOMELESS TYPOLOGY. UM, 60% BEING TRANSITIONAL 30 EPISODIC, 10% CHRONIC. THE VAST MAJORITY OF THAT EXPENSE GOES TO SUPPORT EXITING FOLKS WHO ARE CHRONICALLY HOMELESS OUT OF HO OUT OF LIVING ON THE STREETS AND INTO ONGOING HOUSING SUBSIDIES. UM, AND THE, SO THE PROPORTION IS NOT 20 PER $20,000 PER HOUSEHOLD. IT, IT, IT IS DIFFERENT ACROSS THOSE GROUPS. UM, THE OTHER EXPENSES THAT, UM, WE BUILT INTO THAT CALCULATION INCLUDE, UM, KIND OF THE, THE MOST EXPENSIVE VERSION OF ALL THESE RECOMMENDATIONS WE DESCRIBED. SO LIKE MEETING BASIC NEEDS, LIKE THE COST OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE WAY TO DO THAT IS CITING AN EMERGENCY SHELTER. UM, THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE STRATEGY THAT, THAT THE COMMUNITY WOULD WANT TAKE, BUT WE WANTED TO PROVIDE AN A LOOK AT, UM, WHAT IT COULD COST. AND THEN WE CAN KIND OF BACK DOWN FROM THERE. UM, AND THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S NOTHING MORE EXPENSIVE THAN ACTUALLY HOLDING PEOPLE, UM, IN AN INSTITUTIONAL SETTING RATHER THAN EXITING THEM OUT OF HOMELESSNESS. RUNNING A FACILITY IS, IS THE MAIN, UM, THE MAIN COST OF A HOMELESS SYSTEM. SO THERE'S, THERE'S CHALLENGES WITH BEING ABLE TO ARRIVE AT HOW DO YOU FUND A NUMBER LIKE THAT. UM, AND SO WE'RE, WE'RE ALSO NOT ASSUMING THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT A COMMUNITY WOULD FUND ALL AT ONCE. IT'S JUST DIRECTIONAL TO SAY THERE, THERE'S A PRICE TO ALL THESE DIFFERENT COMPONENTS. WE NEED TO DECIDE WHICH COMPONENTS WE WANNA PURSUE, AND THEN AT WHAT PACE WE WANNA PURSUE THEM. UM, EX OVER TIME, UM, YOU CAN INTRODUCE A NUMBER OF RAPID REHOUSING BEDS OR PERMANENT SUPPORTIVE HOUSING BEDS PER YEAR AND WORK DOWN THE, THE LIST OF THE 600 PEOPLE. UH, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ALL, ALL AT ONCE. AND THIS KIND OF SYSTEM RESPONSE CAN'T BE FUNDED BY JUST ONE SOURCE. WHEN WE SEE SUCCESSFUL SYSTEMS, WE'RE, UM, WE'RE TALKING PHILANTHROPY, WE'RE TALKING INVESTMENTS FROM THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY FOLKS WHO WANNA SEE [03:15:01] A CHANGE IN VISIBLE HOMELESSNESS. SO IT'S A LITTLE, I, I UNDERSTAND IT WOULDN'T NECESSARILY COME ALL OUT OF OUR GENERAL FUND, PER SE, BUT IN A DISCUSSION WITH THE COMMUNITY TO SAY, WHETHER IT'S OUR MONEY GRANTS, FOUNDATIONS, THAT WE'RE GONNA SPEND $20,000 UP TO $20,000 PER PERSON IN PERPETUITY. LIKE, HOW SHOULD WE BE THINKING ABOUT THAT AS A BENEFIT TO THE COMMUNITY? LIKE THERE'S, THERE'S THE EMPATHY AND HUMANITY CONCERN FOR SOMEBODY WHO'S DOWN ON THEIR LUCK, AND LIKE, I GET THAT RIGHT, WITHOUT A DOUBT. UM, IS, IS THERE RESIDUAL BENEFIT THAT YOU CAN SAY TO THE COMMUNITY OF, HEY, WE'VE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE ADDRESSED THIS ISSUE NOW YOU DON'T HAVE THIS PROBLEM OCCURRING. LIKE, HOW DO YOU, HOW DO YOU CONVINCE PEOPLE THERE'S VALUE IN THAT? I, I ASSUME YOU'VE WORKED ON THE MESSAGING SIDE OF THIS PROBLEM, NOT JUST CRAFTED, HERE'S WHAT TO GO SPEND MONEY ON. RIGHT. BECAUSE SELLING IT IS PROBABLY 95% OF THE CHALLENGE, I THINK. MM-HMM. . THE ANOTHER WAY TO THINK ABOUT THIS IS THAT, UM, GIVEN THAT THE SORT OF PROJECTIONS, THE FORECASTING FOR THE EXTENT AND SCOPE OF HOMELESSNESS AND THE PROFILES, WHAT THAT NUMBER REPRESENTS IS AN OPTIMAL SYSTEM WHERE EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO'S EXPERIENCING A HOUSING CRISIS GETS EXACTLY WHAT THEY NEED TO RESOLVE. THERE'S NO COMMUNITY THAT OFFERS THAT. THAT IS THE OPTIMAL, THAT IS THE SORT OF, YOU KNOW, THE BEST POSSIBLE, MOST, UH, THE RICHEST, MOST IMPACTFUL SYSTEM THAT YOU COULD INVEST IN. AND I THINK WHAT THAT NUMBER IS INTENDED TO DO IS TO START THE CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT IS THE COMMUNITY WILLING TO LIVE WITH, AND WHAT ARE YOU WILLING TO INVEST IN? AND IT'S JUST GIVING YOU AN OUTSIDE EXTREME OF WHAT THE FULLY FUNDED, MOST OPTIMAL SYSTEM WOULD LOOK LIKE. NO EXPECTATION THAT THAT'S WHERE YOU END UP. THAT'S JUST TO GIVE YOU A PICTURE OF WHAT IT WOULD TAKE IF YOU ENDED HOMELESSNESS FOR EVERYONE. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. MAYOR, WE COVERED? NO, I, I WAS IN THE QUEUE. I THINK, I JUST DON'T WANT OH, YOU, YOU'RE IN THE QUEUE. AND THEN MELISSA AND I, I MAKE SURE THE VICE MAYOR'S NOT MISSED AGAIN. OKAY. UM, OKAY. COUPLE OF, OF OF THINGS. UH, FIRST REGARDING TO COUNCILOR OL'S, UH, POINT ABOUT SHOWING IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY. THE JUDGE, THE CONVERSATION THAT YOU HAD WITH THE JUDGE SAID THAT THERE WERE LIKE EIGHT TO 10 PEOPLE WHO WERE REVISIT THE COURT ON A SOMEWHAT REGULAR BASIS, AND PROBABLY A NUMBER MORE OF THAT, THAT ARE OCCASIONAL VISITORS THAT ARE IN OUR HOMELESS POPULATION. UM, IF THEY WERE NOT IN THERE, THAT WOULD REDUCE COURT TIME. UM, IT WOULD RE REDUCE PERHAPS POLICE RESOURCES, WHICH WE'LL GET TO WHEN WE TALK TO THE POLICE. BUT I MEAN, I THINK THERE ARE CERTAIN COMMUNITY BENEFITS TO THIS AND CERTAINLY BUDGETARY BENEFITS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THOSE ARE. I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT ANALYSIS. I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT ANALYSIS, BUT I THINK OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, I WOULD ASSUME THAT WE WOULD SEE SOME PERCENTAGE BACK ON, ON AN INVESTMENT. UM, THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO, I HAVE A QUESTION AND I HAVE ONE OTHER, I HAVE TWO MORE QUESTIONS ON YOUR PACKET. PAGE ONE 14. SO THAT'S YOUR REPORT. THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED THE FLEX FUND IN THAT CALCULATION OF THE 12 MILLION MM-HMM. , WHAT? EVERYTHING ELSE IS PRETTY EXPLANATORY, BUT WHAT IS THE FLEX FUND? A FLEX FUND IS A POT OF MONEY THAT YOU CAN DRAW FROM TO ADDRESS WHATEVER THE PARTICULAR CLIENT NEEDS TO. SO LIKE A CONTINGENCY LINE? YES. OKAY. RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT I ASSUMED, BUT I WANTED, DIDN'T WANNA MAKE AN ASSUMPTION. AND, UH, WELL, THE LAST QUESTION I HAVE FOR NOW, FOR NOW, , IS, UM, GETTING LATE. YOU, YOU USED THE TERM PREVIOUSLY OF POLITICAL WILL. WE'RE ALL FAMILIAR WITH THAT. WE KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS UP HERE. BUT I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT COMMUNITY WILL, BECAUSE HAVE YOU, IN THE WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE WITH OTHER COMMUNITIES, HAVE YOU SEEN, UH, GETTING COMMUNITIES WITH EVIDENCE OF COMMUNITY SUPPORT FOR THEIR COMMUNITY, THEIR CITY, ENACTING THESE TYPES OF POLICIES? CAN DO YOU HAVE, CAN YOU CITE US SOME EXAMPLES? I THINK ONE OF THE, THE THINGS THAT IS NOTABLE IN, IN THESE COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL WITH POLITICAL WILL IS THAT PART OF THE APPROACH IS, IS A COMMUNICATION STRATEGY. YOU CAN'T DO THIS IN A VACUUM. AND SO YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE TO BUILD COMMUNITY WILL AS, AS PART OF THIS EFFORT. UM, YOU CAN CITE HOUSTON, DALLAS, OKLAHOMA CITY, UM, A NUMBER OF PLACES WHERE THEY'VE MADE AN IMPACT ON VISIBLE HOMELESSNESS. UM, AND CORRESPONDINGLY HAD A, A, A BRANDING STRATEGY FOR THIS COORDINATED ENTRY RESPONSE CENTERED ON, UM, THE COORDINATED ENTRY ORGANIZATION, UM, WHO ACTUALLY THEN BECOMES KIND OF THE FUNDRAISING [03:20:01] ENTITY FOR THE WHOLE EFFORT. AND SO THERE'S, UM, THERE'S, THERE ARE DEFINITELY, DEFINITELY EXAMPLES THAT WE CAN UNPACK OF WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TO BUILD COMMUNITY WILL. I THINK THE THING THAT DISTINGUISHES THIS IS THAT, UM, IT'S ALCHEM ORIENTED. I'M SAYING WE'RE GONNA, WHEN YOU HAVE POLITICAL WILL THAT SAYS, WE'RE GOING TO HOUSE 500 PEOPLE IN THE NEXT THREE YEARS, SO WE'RE GONNA SEE 500 LESS PEOPLE ON THE STREETS IN OUR COMMUNITY, THAT IS A REALLY POWERFUL STATEMENT THAT COMMUNITIES USUALLY RESPOND WELL TO, UM, ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE. 'CAUSE IT ADDRESSES ISSUES ON BOTH SIDES. MELISSA, UM, CAN I JUST ADD TO THAT? THANK YOU, JONATHAN. SO, UH, IN TERMS OF COMMUNITY WILL, UM, ONE VERY GOOD EXAMPLE THAT I CAN BRING TO YOU FROM A PERSONAL STANDPOINT IS THAT, UM, THE INTERFAITH COMMUNITY, RIGHT? SO, UM, IF THE INTERFAITH COMMUNITY WERE VERY BANDED TOGETHER AND STRONG AND CONNECTED WITH EACH OTHER AND HAD REGULAR MEETINGS AND SPOKE, IF THE, IF THE PRIEST AND THE RABBI AND THE, UM, THE MOSQUE, YOU KNOW, THE IMAM AND YOU KNOW, THE MINISTER, IF THEY ALL ACTUALLY SAT WITH EACH OTHER ON A MONTHLY BASIS AND MET AND TALKED ABOUT WHAT IS THE COMMUNITY STRUGGLING, WHAT ARE THE ISSUES, HOW CAN WE DEAL, YOU KNOW, HOW CAN WE PROVIDE SOLUTIONS? WHAT CAN WE DO TOGETHER TO MAKE THE COMMUNITY STRONGER, MORE STABLE, AND, YOU KNOW, GET PEOPLE SOME OF THE HELP THAT THEY MIGHT NEED. UM, YOU KNOW, THAT TENDED TO WORK VERY WELL, UM, IN A COMMUNITY THAT I WAS INVOLVED WITH BACK EAST. AND THEY WERE ABLE TO CREATE, UM, REALLY STRONG COMMUNITY PROGRAMS THAT WERE AS VERY ASSISTING TO THE COMMUNITY. THERE, THERE WAS A HOMELESS SHELTER THAT WAS INITIATED. UM, AGAIN, I'M NOT SAYING, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT THAT WOULD BE A REPLICATED HERE, BUT AS AN EXAMPLE, THEY STARTED A HOMELESS SHELTER. THEY CREATED A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION, AND, UM, THAT, UH, NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION WAS ABLE TO GET THIS HOMELESS SHELTER GOING. IT'S STILL GOING TODAY. AND IT IS VERY WELL FUNDED FROM, UM, PHILANTHROPY, FEDERAL SOURCES, AND, UM, COMMUNITY SUPPORT, UM, BREAKFAST PROGRAMS, FOOD PROGRAMS, FOOD, UH, NUTRITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS, UM, CHILDCARE, UH, YOU KNOW, AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAMS. ALL OF THESE THINGS WERE KIND OF COORDINATED AND SPEARHEADED BY A VERY STRONG INTERFAITH COMMUNITY. SO, YOU KNOW, THAT IS ONE OPTION. AND TO ADD TO THAT, UM, I, I DO, I THINK IN THIS WHOLE CONTEXT, THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE NONPROFIT AND, AND, AND, AND FAITH COMMUNITIES TO ORGANIZE IS REALLY PRIMED WHEN YOU HAVE, UH, A COORDINATED SHARE, A COORDINATED APPROACH WITH A SHARED VISION. 'CAUSE IT GIVES PEOPLE SOME, SOME GUIDE RAILS TO OPERATE WITHIN. AND I ALSO CAN, UH, COUNSELOR, UH, KINSELLA, I WANTED TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION FROM EARLIER. RENTED. RENTED, BUT NOT OCCUPIED. THE DEFINITION IS, UM, THESE ARE VACANT HOUSING UNITS THAT HAVE BEEN RENTED BUT ARE NOT YET OCCUPIED. SO, LIKE, THEY MAY HAVE SIGNED AN AGREEMENT, BUT THEY'RE NOT YET LIVING THERE. THANK YOU FOR THAT. IT TOTALLY MAKES SENSE. YEAH. OKAY. ARE, ARE YOU DONE, JEANNIE? YEAH. OKAY. COUNCIL DONE. AND THEN WE WILL, I'D LIKE TO MOVE ON TO THE DEPUTY CHIEF. OKAY. ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE NOTICED IS WE HAVE A FOCUS ON THE VISIBLY HOMELESS, WHICH IS THE CHRONIC HOMELESS, WHICH IS THE SMALLEST PERCENTAGE OF THE HOMELESS IN YOUR TYPOLOGY. UM, AND YET IT SEEMS TO ME THE WAY WE THINK OF OR SPEAK OF HOMELESSNESS IS A SORT OF SLIPPERY SLOPE. AND SO WHY WOULDN'T WE HAVE A GREATER FOCUS ON THE TRANSITIONAL HOMELESS, GETTING THEM OUT OF THE HOMELESS SITUATION AND INTO A HOMED SITUATION, UM, THAT CAN BE MAINTAINED ON A PERMANENT BASIS, WHATEVER THAT MEANS. LOWER RENTS, MORE HOUSING UNITS, WHICH YOU STARTED WITH, AND THEN MM-HMM. , WE JUST SORT OF FORGOT ABOUT ANYWHERE ELSE. UM, HAVING, [03:25:01] YOU KNOW, UH, INCOME THAT WILL ALLOW THEM TO, TO MEET THE RENT, WHATEVER, WHATEVER THAT THOSE ISSUES ARE. AND ACTUALLY, JEANNIE, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU SPOKE OF SEEM LIKE TRANSITIONAL HOUSING HELP, LIKE, UM, YOU KNOW, DAYCARE SUPPORTED, DAYCARE SUPPORTED, UM, UH, AFTERSCHOOL CARE SUPPORTED BREAKFASTS, UM, ESPECIALLY FOR CHILDREN. SO WE AREN'T REALLY SPEAKING ABOUT ANY OF THAT HERE. I DON'T REALLY SEE ANY OF THESE PROGRAMS SORT OF AIMED AT THE TRANSITIONAL HOMELESS. AND IN SOME REGARDS, THE THINGS THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE PEOPLE WE WANT TO HELP WORKERS HERE IN, IN SEDONA, THIS IS, FEELS LIKE THEY'RE, THEY, THEY SHOULD FIT. I'M NOT SAYING THEY DO, BUT THEY SHOULD FIT MORE INTO THAT LARGE BRACKET OF TRANSITIONAL. SO WHAT, WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE WITH ALL OF THESE SERVICES AND WHATEVER THAT WILL HELP PEOPLE NOT SLIDE DOWN INTO CHRONIC HOMELESSNESS, WHERE, AS YOU SAY, JUST THE STRESSORS OF BEING HOMELESS CAN CREATE BEHAVIORAL ISSUES, WHICH MAY IN TURN CREATE, UM, ADDICTIVE ISSUES, SO FORTH AND SO ON IN ORDER TO COPE. SO WHERE ARE WE ON ALL OF THAT? I THINK POINT WELL TAKEN, ANY HOMELESSNESS IS NOT GREAT. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S CHRONIC OR TRANSITIONAL. UM, THE WHOLE PICTURE HAS TO BE PART OF OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. AND WE KNOW THAT BEING HOMELESS ONE TIME IS A STRONG PREDICTOR OF FUTURE HOMELESSNESS. SO I THINK THAT INTERVENTION EARLY ON TO STAVE OFF ANY KIND OF HOUSING INSTABILITY IS A GOOD INVESTMENT FOR THE COMMUNITY. UH, THE, THE, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES, AND AGAIN, THIS IS WHERE YOU ALL WILL HAVE TO SORT OF WEIGH THE CALCULUS OF HOW TO DIRECT VERY LIMITED RESOURCES. I'M SURE YOUR CONSTITUENTS, UM, AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS SEE THE CHRONIC HOMELESS, AND THAT FEELS MORE INCONSISTENT WITH THEIR VISION OF SEDONA AND WHERE THEY WANT TO LIVE AND RAISE THEIR FAMILY. AND THE PERSON WHO'S NOT AS VISIBLE, WHO'S ONLY HOMELESS FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, WHO'S MAYBE SLEEPING IN THEIR CAR AND TRYING VERY HARD NOT TO BE SEEN, THEY'RE JUST NOT AS VISIBLE. SO IT'S NOT AS PRESENT. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THAT PERSON IN THE CAR WOULDN'T BENEFIT FROM SOME HELP. AND IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE PERSON WHO'S CHRONIC NEEDS, UH, A, A A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF SUPPORT. BOTH OF THOSE THINGS ARE TRUE. WE JUST OBVIOUSLY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES. SO IT'S A, A CHALLENGING DECISION ABOUT HOW TO DIRECT INTERVENTIONS IN A WAY THAT IS ALIGNED WITH YOUR VISION FOR SEDONA VERDE VALLEY, WITH THE RESOURCES THAT YOU HAVE AND THE IMPACT THAT YOU HOPE TO ACHIEVE. WHERE, WHERE WE END UP IT IN THINKING ABOUT THIS AS A, AS A CLOSED SYSTEM, IS IF WE DON'T ADDRESS THE TRANSITIONAL GRIP, WE DON'T SHOW OFF THE VALVE. THE REST WILL GROW. WE'LL STILL SEE THAT 6% INCREASE IF WE DON'T ADDRESS THE CHRONIC HOMELESSNESS, THE, THE VISIBLE ASPECT, THE THINGS THAT FRUSTRATE PEOPLE ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS WILL CONTINUE. SO THERE A HEALTHY SYSTEM. USUALLY WE TALK ABOUT NOT, NOT SPENDING THE $12 MILLION, BUT UH, TAKING AN APPROACH TO ADDRESS BOTH SIDES, BOTH THE INFLOW AND THE OUTFLOW. UM, BUT THAT CAN BE SCALED BASED ON WHAT MAKES SENSE HERE, BASED ON WHAT THE COMMUNITY WILL AND THE POLITICAL WILL ARE. OKAY. SO, UH, IF WE COULD JUST, WHILE WE'RE STILL IN THE QUESTION MODE, I'D LIKE TO BRING THE DEPUTY CHIEF UP. HE HAS A LOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH HOMELESSNESS, ESPECIALLY BEEN SUCCESSFUL PROGRAMS, WITH SUCCESSFUL PROGRAMS IN COTTONWOOD. SO, UM, CHIEF, I APPRECIATE YOU PUTTING UP WITH US AND HANGING OUT FOR SO LONG. BUT THE COUNCIL HAS A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR YOU. AND IF YOU CAN GIVE US SOME BACKGROUND, AS I KNOW YOU'RE ONLY HERE A FEW MONTHS, BUT CAN YOU GIVE US A BACKGROUND ON WHAT YOUR TAKE ON THE HOMELESS SITUATION IS HERE IN SEDONA? YEAH. UM, EVENING MAYOR, UH, VICE MAYOR AND COUNCIL, UM, YOUR, UH, INTERIM DEPUTY CHIEF, I GOTTA WAKE UP REAL QUICK. UM, SO MY EXPERIENCE GOES, UH, I SPENT 20 YEARS DOWN, UH, IN THE VALLEY WORKING FOR A VERY LARGE AGENCY. AND DOWN THERE, THE HOMELESS THING JUST WASN'T ON MY RADAR, RIGHT? LIKE, I COULD REALLY, IT IS, IT WAS WHAT IT WAS. I JUST WENT FROM CALL TO CALL AND DID WHAT I HAD TO DO. IT WASN'T UNTIL I CAME UP TO COTTONWOOD AND STARTED OVER AS AN OFFICER, AND I WENT FROM AN EXECUTIVE LEVEL WITH THAT DEPARTMENT AND THOUGHT I'D COME UP TO COTTONWOOD AND START OVER AS AN OFFICER. 'CAUSE I REALLY LOVED BEING A POLICE OFFICER. AND WHAT I REALIZED REALLY QUICKLY AS A POLICE OFFICER ON THE GROUND WAS THAT I WAS DEALING WITH THE SAME PEOPLE EVERY DAY. IT WAS A HAMSTER WHEEL, RIGHT? UM, AND I HAD NO RESOURCES. SO I WAS RESOURCEFUL AS I RE I DIDN'T HAVE ANY RESOURCES, HANDS IN MY POCKET, DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. AND, UM, [03:30:01] IN THE CONSISTENCY BETWEEN OFFICERS, RIGHT? LIKE JUST TRYING TO BREAK THROUGH TO SOME OF THE HOMELESSNESS, FAST FORWARD, I THEN BECAME A COMMANDER AND REALIZED, WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE? HOW MUCH RESOURCES ARE WE WASTING, YOU KNOW, ON A DAILY BASIS, TWO OR THREE TIMES WITH A CERTAIN INDIVIDUAL BECAUSE WE CAN'T PROVIDE ANYTHING TO 'EM. SO THE PREVIOUS CHIEF KIND OF, UM, ALLOWED ME, PREVIOUS COTTONWOOD CHIEF KINDA ALLOWED ME TO START RUNNING WITH THE BALL. AND WE STARTED WHAT WE CALL AN OUTREACH SERVICES PROGRAM, OR AN OUTREACH SERVICE OFFICER. UM, AND THAT KIND OF MORPHED INTO, UM, REALLY FILLING SOME HOLES WITH THE SITUATION. SO HOLISTICALLY, YOU REALLY HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE BIGGER PICTURE, RIGHT? IT'S NOT JUST ONE THING. WE ALL KNOW THAT IT'S NOT GONNA BE ONE QUICK FIX. THAT'S NOT WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN HERE. BUT WHAT I WANT TO TELL YOU IS THAT THROUGH MY EXPERIENCE WITH COTTONWOOD, WAS THE FIRST THING THAT WE INSTILLED WHEN WE SAW, WHEN THE HOMELESS COALITION CAME IN, WE HAD THAT SAME CONCERN, RIGHT? OH, HERE WE GO, WE'RE GONNA BRING MORE PEOPLE IN HERE, RIGHT? IF YOU BUILD IT, THEY WILL COME. AND THEN WHO FOLLOWS THE RULES? AND THEN IS THEONA GONNA BRING PEOPLE IN HERE? AND THEN WHAT'S GOING ON OVER HERE? SO THE FIRST THING THE CHIEF DID WAS SAY, HEY, LET'S GET SOMEBODY, LET'S SEE IF THE HOMELESS COALITION WILL ALLOW SOMEBODY ON THE BOARD. SO WE ASKED, SAID, HEY, CAN WE BE ON THE HOMELESS COALITION BOARD? ABSOLUTELY. SO THAT'S, THAT WAS ABOUT SIX YEARS AGO WE STARTED THAT. I'VE SPENT TWO YEARS ON THE HOMELESS COALITION BOARD. UM, I'M INTIMATELY FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THEY DO. UM, AND I WOULD, UM, I WOULD, UH, THROW OUT AN INVITATION FOR YOU TO COME OUT ANYTIME JUST TO SEE WHAT THEY DO, BECAUSE THEY GO FROM AN OVERNIGHT SHELTER ALL THE WAY UP TO, UM, TRANSITIONAL HOUSING, BUT YOU DON'T GET THE TRANSITIONAL HOUSING UNTIL YOU PROVE THAT YOU'VE DONE CERTAIN THINGS, RIGHT? YOU GOTTA SHOW YOU'RE GETTING A JOB, YOU GOTTA SHOW YOU'RE DOING CERTAIN THINGS. SO THAT'S THAT PART OF IT. UM, WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UM, THE JAIL PROBLEM, RIGHT? YOU GET OUTTA JAIL ON THE STREET. WELL, YOU HAVE, APPLIED COUNTY HAS A PROGRAM FOR THAT. UM, SHERIFF RHODES LEADS, UM, A PROGRAM CALLED, UM, UH, YI JUSTICE AND MENTAL HEALTH COALITION. AND THAT'S AN EXIT PROGRAM TO WHERE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY GETTING THOSE SERVICES. SO WE'RE NOT JUST THROWING THEM ON THE STREET ANYMORE. SO THAT'S ANOTHER PART OF IT. BUT ALL THESE LITTLE PIECES OF THE PUZZLE HAVE TO COME TOGETHER BECAUSE AS WE SAID, THEY ALL HAVE TO WORK AND WE HAVE IT HERE IN THE COMMUNITY. WE JUST HAVE TO GET TOGETHER AND MAKE IT WORK AS IN A WHOLE, LIKE, HEY, LET'S PUT ALL THE RESOURCES TOGETHER. UM, SO IF WE GO BACK TO, UM, IF THE OUTREACH SERVICES THING, WHAT WE FOUND WITH THAT PROGRAM WAS THAT THAT OFFICER WAS ABLE TO GIVE THE, UM, MOSTLY THE CHRONIC HOMELESS, RIGHT? CONSISTENCY, ABLE TO GIVE 'EM CONSISTENCY, EXPLAIN THE RULES TO 'EM, KNEW THEM INTIMATELY, WHAT'S YOUR STORY? AND THEN HOW DID THAT, UM, TRANSITION TO THE COURTS WHEN IT ENDED UP BEING THE COURT PROBLEM? HE CAN GO IN AND TALK TO THE PROSECUTOR, HEY, THIS PERSON WOULD PROBABLY BE A GOOD PERSON FOR A DEFERRED PROSECUTION. I THINK IF WE GIVE THEM A LITTLE SUBSTANCE ABUSE HELP, THEY CAN GET ON THEIR, THEIR FEET, OR WE CAN GET 'EM OUTTA THE SITUATION OR MEANT, YOU KNOW, MENTAL HEALTH SITUATION OR, HEY, THIS PERSON JUST REALLY NEEDS A JOB. AND I THINK THEY NEED THAT STRUCTURE. WHAT I THINK WE FORGET IN SOCIETY IS THAT WE THRIVE ON STRUCTURE. WE THRIVE ON STRUCTURE. SO YOU, THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING THERE, RIGHT? I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE I'VE PUT IN PRISON, THEY CAME BACK OUT A MONTH LATER, THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING. I'M LIKE, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM HERE? AND THEY'RE LIKE, MAN, I JUST CAN'T, I GOTTA HAVE STRUCTURE. RIGHT? WELL, THAT'S WHAT THIS WHOLE, THIS OUTREACH SERVICE OFFICER DOES. IT PROVIDES SOME OF THAT STRUCTURE, WHETHER IT BE RESOURCES, LET WE HELP YOU WITH RESOURCES, OR LET ME HELP YOU, YOU KNOW, WITH WHATEVER THAT HAPPENS TO BE FOR DEFERRED PROSECUTION OR, UM, UH, ALTERNATIVE SENTENCING. OKAY? SO ALL THESE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT. AND AT COTTONWOOD, THE CITY WENT TO THE PROSECUTOR AND THEY PURPOSELY HIRED A PROSECUTOR WHO HAD THE FIRM BELIEF OF DEFERRED PROSECUTION, ALTERNATIVE SENTENCING, AND PROVIDING THESE PROGRAMS RELATED TO IT. SO IT WASN'T A COURT THING. I DON'T WANNA SAY IT WAS A COURT THING, IT WAS A PROSECUTED THING. BECAUSE ONCE THE PROSECUTOR GETS THOSE PAPERS, HE TAKES IT IN FRONT OF THE COURT, HEY, HE, THIS PERSON TOOK A PLEA. THEY'RE GONNA TAKE, THEY'RE GONNA DO THESE SERVICES RIGHT HERE, AND WE'RE GONNA DEFER PROSECUTION UNTIL THEY GET DONE. AND THE JUDGE IS LIKE, OKAY. SO IT REALLY HAS NOTHING, IT DOES HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE COURT, BUT IT'S MORE ON THE PROSECUTOR AND THEIR PHILOSOPHY AND THE IMPORTANCE OF THAT PROSECUTOR, UM, REFLECTING YOUR PHILOSOPHY. WHAT DO WE WANT WITH [03:35:01] THIS? WHAT DOES THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE CITY WANT WITH PROSECUTION? IT DOESN'T DO ANY GOOD TO WRITE THEM 40 TICKETS AND PUT 'EM IN JAIL AND WATCH HIM GET BACK OUT AGAIN. BUT IT DOES DO GOOD WHEN YOU CAN SHOW THAT YOU'VE DONE ALL THESE STEPS, YOU'VE DONE ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS FOR HIM, AND THEN THEY'RE STILL FAILING. YOU'RE LIKE, OKAY, LISTEN, WE'VE DONE WHAT WE CAN DO. AND THAT'S WHERE THE OUTREACH SERVICE OFFICER COMES IN. HE IS ABLE TO TRIAGE OR PRIORITIZE SO HE CAN GO OUT THERE AND BE LIKE, OKAY, I CAN HELP YOU. I CAN'T HELP YOU. YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO. RIGHT? AND THEN IT HELPS REDUCE SOME OF THAT JUST BECAUSE, UM, YOU'RE NOT WASTING RESOURCES ON SOMETHING THAT'S A LOSING BATTLE, RIGHT? AND THEN ULTIMATELY YOU DO REDUCE SOME OF IT ON THE STREET. UM, YOU DO HELP THAT. AND, AND WE HAD A PHILOSOPHY IN COTTONWOOD, AND THE PHILOSOPHY WAS, THIS IS AMERICA. YOU'RE FREE TO DO WHAT YOU WANNA DO. YOU WANNA LIVE ON THE STREET, LIVE ON THE STREET. YOU CAN DO ALL THESE THINGS. WHAT YOU CAN'T DO IS YOU CAN'T, UM, AFFECT SOMEBODY ELSE'S. UM, UH, YOU CAN'T AFFECT SOMEBODY ELSE'S, UM, THE WAY THEY LIVE, RIGHT? LIKE THE WORD QUALITY OF LIFE. QUALITY OF LIFE, RIGHT? ONCE YOU AFFECT SOMEBODY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, COUNSELOR. I APPRECIATE THAT. MY BRAIN IS TEAMWORK. TEAMWORK, YEAH. ONCE YOU DO THAT, WELL NOW THERE'S CONSEQUENCES. RIGHT? NOW THERE'S CONSEQUENCES BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL SAY, WELL, I'M NOT BOTHERING ANYBODY. I'M, YOU KNOW, JUST SIT ON, WELL, YOU ARE. 'CAUSE THERE'S TRASH OVER HERE AND THIS IS IN THIS PERSON'S YARD. SO NOW YOU'RE AFFECTING THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE. AND THAT'S KIND OF HOW THAT GOES. SO DO WHAT YOU WANNA DO, BUT DON'T AFFECT OTHER PEOPLE'S QUALITY OF LIFE AND USE THOSE OTHER TOOLS. SO AGAIN, I THINK IT'S A VERY HOLISTIC THING. I, THERE'S A LOT OF PROGRAMS I AM VERY FAMILIAR WITH. CATHOLIC CHARITIES, THEY WORK VERY WELL WITH THE HOMELESS COALITION. THEY GO INTO HOMELESS COALITION A COUPLE TIMES A WEEK, AND THEY'RE LIKE, HEY, WHAT CAN WE HELP YOU WITH HERE? WHO, WHO'S ON YOUR RADAR THAT WE CAN HELP WITH? SAME THING WITH SPECTRUM. AND THAT'S ANOTHER THING THE OUTREACH SERVICE OFFICER DOES. HE'LL GO INTO THE HOMELESS COALITION AND HAVE A, AN EVENT DAY WHERE HE CALLS DES IN SPECTRUM, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, UM, ALL THESE SERVICES. SO THEY'RE IN A PLACE THAT THEY'RE COMFORTABLE WITH. WHAT WE ALWAYS DO IS WE'RE LIKE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE, UH, THIS EVENT AT THE HOTEL. WELL, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT GONNA A HOTEL, RIGHT? BUT THEY WILL GO TO THE HOMELESS COALITION, AND THAT'S WHERE YOU PROVIDED 'EM SERVICES. IT WAS WHERE THEY'RE AT. SO THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT. AND IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT THAT RIGHT NOW WITH THE CHRONIC HOMELESS AND US, IT'S LIKE THIS, RIGHT? BECAUSE ALL THEY DO IS SEE US, WE ARREST THEM, WE, YOU KNOW, I WANT THIS PERSON TRESPASS, WE TRESPASS THEM, SO WE'RE CHASING THEM. BUT WITH THE OUTREACH SERVICE PROGRAM, THEY BUILD THEIR RAPPORT WITH THEM. WAS THAT THAT CO VERSUS SEDONA CHIEF? YES. SO THAT'S, THAT'S YOUR, YOU'RE GIVING A, UH, COMPARISON. YEAH, IT'S, IT, IT'S BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S JUST NATURAL THAT THE POLICE OFFICERS ONLY HAVE SO MANY TOOLS IN THEIR BAG, RIGHT? I, AND IT, IT'S USUALLY A HAMMER. I COME IN WITH A HAMMER AND I HAMMER EVERYBODY IN THE HEAD. AND THEN IT DOESN'T WORK OUT WELL WITH THE OUTREACH SERVICE OFFICER. IT HELPS WITH THE RAPPORT. IT HELPS THEM KNOW THESE PEOPLE. IT ACTUALLY ALSO HELPS WITH, HEY FRANK, UH, ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO BE DRINKING? BECAUSE I'M PRETTY SURE THAT ON YOUR PROBATION THING THAT I WAS IN COURT WITH LAST WEEK, YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE DRINKING. SO THERE'S EVEN THAT, I'M NOT GONNA WRITE YOU A TICKET RIGHT NOW, BUT FRANK, YOU'RE ON MY RADAR. I'M GONNA GO TALK TO THE JUDGE. RIGHT? SO IT'S THOSE KINDS OF THINGS THAT KEEP THAT. SO, I, I WANT, I WANT YOU TO KEEP IT IN MIND. WE HONESTLY DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES THAT'S SEDONA TO DO IT. AND AT COTTONWOOD IT WAS ALWAYS A STRUGGLE AS WELL, BECAUSE WE'RE PULLING OUT OF OUR CURRENT, UH, OUR CURRENT LEVELS OF POLICE OFFICERS FOR DIFFERENT PROGRAMS, RIGHT? LIKE, I GOT, WE GOT THE Y THING OVER HERE, WE'VE GOT THE TRAFFIC CONTROL, WE'VE GOT THIS. AND THAT'S ANOTHER ONE THAT WE KEPT PULLING OUT. AND EVERY TIME THE THE RESOURCES GET LOWER, WHAT HAPPENS? UH, YOU'RE BACK OUT. SO YOU LOSE THAT CONSISTENCY AGAIN. YOU GOTTA START OVER AGAIN. SO IT'S ALWAYS A STRUGGLE THERE, BUT IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT, I KNOW IT WAS ON THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS. IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF THIS. AND, UM, REALLY IT WILL HAVE A, IN MY OPINION, IT'LL HAVE A HUGE EFFECT ON THE QUALITY OF LIFE OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS WHO ARE GONNA SEE YOU. RIGHT? 'CAUSE THAT'S, TO THEIR POINT, THAT'S THE ONES THEY'RE, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT? THAT GUY AT SAFEWAY, HE'S ALWAYS OUT THERE IN FRONT OF SAFEWAY. THEY'RE NOT TALKING TO YOU ABOUT THE TRANSITIONAL ONE THAT'S LIVING IN THEIR CAR. BECAUSE THE ONLY P PERSON WHO SEES THAT IS THE OFFICER WHO'S CHASING HIM OUTTA THE PARK. 'CAUSE IT'S AFTER NINE. BUT IF YOU'VE NEVER BEEN A POLICE OFFICER AND HAD TO CHASE A FAMILY OUT OF A PARK AT MIDNIGHT, BECAUSE THAT'S THE RULE, AND YOU KNOW, WHERE DO YOU GET THAT IN YOUR STOMACH? AND THAT'S, THEY TELL THE STORY OF POLICE OFFICERS LOOKING FOR THEIR, USING THEIR OWN RESOURCES. MM-HMM. . BECAUSE YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T STOMACH THAT. SO I WOULD, I WOULD SAY TO YOU THAT IF NOTHING ELSE, HELP THE POLICE OFFICERS HELP THEM. SO THOSE POLICE, 'CAUSE THOSE POLICE OFFICERS [03:40:01] KNOW THEM, THOSE POLICE OFFICERS WILL KNOW THOSE PEOPLE THAT HEY, THEY JUST NEED A NIGHT IN A HOTEL ROOM. RIGHT? AND IF YOU CAN PROVIDE THOSE KIND OF VOUCHER SERVICES AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS, THAT GOES A LONG WAY. IT GOES A LONG WAY WITH BUILDING COMMUNITY TRUST. IT GOES A LONG WAY WITH GETTING THEM ON THEIR FEET, AT LEAST FOR THE NIGHT. AND WE DON'T LOOK LIKE AS A CITY THAT WE DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM. RIGHT. SO, JUST FROM MY TAKE ON IT AGAIN, UM, I WASN'T DISPASSIONATE ABOUT IT BEFORE AND I WASN'T DISPASSIONATE UNTIL IT BECAME MY TURN TO SIT ON THE, THE HOMELESS COALITION. AND IT WAS THE EXCHANGE OF IDEAS BETWEEN THE OTHER PEOPLE IN THE HOMELESS COALITION THAT I REALLY APPRECIATED. 'CAUSE I NEVER SAW THAT PERSPECTIVE. AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU, UM, ALL, UM, UH, THAT YOU LOOK INTO POSITIONS LIKE THAT BECAUSE NOW I'M SITTING WHERE I'M SITTING WITH COTTONWOOD AND IT'S REALLY KINDA OPENED MY EYES TO OTHER THINGS. UM, SO, UH, ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS FOR YOU. YES. WE, UH, COUNCILOR FURMAN, YOU CAN GO FIRST. THANK MAYOR. DO YOU SEE, WE'VE STARTED THIS CONVERSATION TALK ABOUT THE TYPOLOGY AND THE TRANSITIONAL EPISODIC AND CR CHRONIC CATEGORIZATION OF HOMELESSNESS. I'M ASSUMING THAT THAT CATEGORIZATION IS A CATEGORIZATION YOU WOULD AGREE WITH AS WELL, OR AT LEAST UNDERSTAND THE TYPOLOGY OF YES. OKAY. SO MY FIRST QUESTION I WANTED TO ASK IS, WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT BEHAVIORS AND THE VISIBLE BEHAVIORS. THE COUNCIL ARE FALSE FIRST BROUGHT UP. AND WE TALKED ABOUT THAT COULD REALLY BE IN ANY CATEGORY. AND EVEN NOT UNHOUSED. PEOPLE COULD ALSO HAVE THOSE BEHAVIORS. SO YOU GUYS AND WOMEN IN THE POLICE FORCE, YOU DEAL MOSTLY WITH THIS VISIBLE STUFF AND THE PROBLEMS THAT THAT COME UP. AND, AND I, I WOULD JUST WANT TO INTERJECT. I KNOW THAT BEING A SMALL COMMUNITY AND A COMMUNITY POLICING ORIENTED DEPARTMENT, WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY THE RIGHT WAY TO DO, I MEAN, YOU, YOU GUYS ACTUALLY WOMEN TALK TO PEOPLE ON THE STREET AND, AND YOU GET TO KNOW 'EM. PART OF THAT'S BEING A SMALL TOWN. PART OF THAT IS THE ORIENTATION OF THE DEPARTMENT, WHICH IS REALLY STELLAR. QUESTION I WANTED TO ASK IS, OF THE VISIBLE, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, PANHANDLING OR THE AGGRESSIVE PANHANDLING OR THE PROBLEMS THAT YOU DEAL WITH AS POLICE OFFICERS, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT'S MOSTLY COMES FROM THE HOMELESS POPULATION IN GENERAL? OR DO YOU THINK THAT THERE'S A, A, A, A, A SUBSTANTIAL OR A KNOWN POPULATION THAT COMES FROM PEOPLE THAT ARE HOUSED BUT ARE STILL DOING THESE BEHAVIORS? I'D SAY PROBABLY ABOUT 10% OF WHAT YOU SEE PANHANDLING AND THAT KIND OF STUFF ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE RESOURCES. THERE'S A GENTLEMAN, UH, WHO COMES TO WALMART EVERY YEAR IN COTTONWOOD. IF YOU WATCH HIM CLOSELY ENOUGH, HE WALKS OVER TO A MERCEDES VAN, IT'S BRAND NEW AND GETS IN IT. WE'VE TALKED TO HIM. WE'VE SAID, HEY, WHY DO YOU DO THIS? YOU'RE DRIVING A MERCEDES. HE'S LIKE, I DRIVE A MERCEDES 'CAUSE I DO THIS . RIGHT? WE'VE ALL HEARD THOSE STORIES. YEAH. WE DON'T KNOW. HE MAKES, HE MAKES $60 AN HOUR DOING THAT, AND HE DOESN'T PAY ANY TAXES. SO HE, THAT'S WHAT HE DOES. AND I, YOU CAN'T BLAME THE GUY, RIGHT. HE'S PLAYING THE SYSTEM, BUT IT'S A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THAT. SO 10, 10 PERCENTISH KINDS OF NUMBERS. YEAH. AND THEN, SO THE 90%, CAN YOU CATEGORIZE FOR ME, IS IT MOST TRANSITIONAL FOLKS ARE MOVING THROUGH HERE, YOU KNOW, ONLY HOMELESS THE THREE MONTHS KIND OF TIMEFRAME? OR IS IT THE CHRONIC FOLKS THAT, YOU KNOW? I WOULD SAY PROBABLY GUESSTIMATE. I'D SAY PROBABLY 80% OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT YOU SEE ON THE STREET CORNERS ARE, UM, CHRONIC. THE TRANSITIONAL PEOPLE ARE, THEY'RE OUT TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING. THEY'RE OUT WORKING, YOU KNOW? AND TO CLARIFY, THOSE PEOPLE THAT WE SEE ON THE STREET CORNER WHO ARE, UM, WHO ARE PANHANDLING, UH, WHO ARE THE OTHER THAT, YOU KNOW, 90% THAT ARE THE CHRONIC ONES, THEY'RE, THEY'RE ONLY DOING IT FOR THEIR, THEY'RE DOING IT FOR THEIR FIX, WHATEVER THAT HAPPENS TO BE. AND MAYBE A LITTLE BIT OF FOOD. BUT THEY'RE NOT DOING IT TO GET RENT MONEY. THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT DOING IT TO, YOU KNOW, PAY CHILD SUPPORT OR FEED THE CHILD. THEY'RE TYPICALLY DOING IT FOR THEIR FIX. I THINK THAT'S IT FOR NO MATTER THANK VICE SMEAR. HI. HELLO. THANK YOU. I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS. WHO FUNDS THE VERDE VALLEY HOMELESS COALITION? IT'S A 5 0 1 3 C. AND IT IS, DOES THE CITY GIVE A CITY OF COTTONWOOD? THE CITY DOES PROVIDE GRANTS TO IT AT TIMES. UM, WHAT THE CITY HAS DONE FOR THEM HAS BEEN A, I DON'T KNOW THE TERM FOR THIS, THAT YOU WOULD PROBABLY KNOW THE TERM. IT'S WHEN THE CITY SAYS, HEY, YOU CAN, UM, THIS, WE WANNA GIVE A, THE STATE WILL SAY, HEY, WE WANNA GIVE THIS PERSON A GRANT, BUT YOU HAVE TO SIGN FOR IT. [03:45:01] FLOW THROUGH. YEAH. IT'S, THEY'VE DONE A COUPLE OF THOSE FLOW THROUGH GRANTS, UM, WHICH HAS REALLY WORKED, UM, COURSE TOOK A LITTLE BIT OF, YOU KNOW, HEY COUNSEL, THIS IS REALLY A GOOD PROJECT. AND NOW THE SUCCESS THAT THEY'VE SEEN IS, YOU KNOW, REMARKABLE. IN FACT, THEY'RE REMOVING, THEY'RE ACTUALLY GETTING A, UM, WE'RE GETTING A, A DROP IN, UM, CENTER IN CAMP VERDE FOR JOBS AND DIFFERENT STUFF LIKE THAT. SO NOW THEY'RE, WE'RE ACTUALLY EXPANDING IT OVER THERE BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT IT'S ALL OF OUR PROBLEMS. SO MY SECOND QUESTION WAS GONNA BE, DO THEY SERVE OUTSIDE OF THE CITY OF COTTONWOOD? AND YOU JUST ANSWERED THAT. YES. WE'RE, WE'RE GETTING A FOOTHOLD IN OTHER PLACES. 'CAUSE THAT'S BEEN MY BIGGEST POINT OF, WE'RE NOT THE COTTONWOOD HOMELESS COALITION WITH THE VERDE VALLEY HOMELESS COALITION. SO WE REALLY NEED TO EXPAND THOSE EFFORTS. THANK YOU. OKAY. UH, AND YOU MIGHT HAVE TOUCHED ON IT BEFORE, BUT I, I WASN'T SURE REALLY SURE. THE TERMINOLOGY OF THE PEOPLE IN SEDONA THAT YOU'RE DEALING WITH OR THE OFFICERS ARE DEALING WITH, HOW MANY IRREGULARS, PERCENTAGE WISE, IF YOU, IF YOU KNOW, AND HOW MANY ARE, I'LL CON LIKE MY TERM, WITH GHOSTS OR FLOATERS THROUGH THE CITY, THEY COME HERE FOR A MONTH AND, AND THEY LEAVE. OR HOW, WHAT ARE THE REGULARS AND WHO CAN YOU HELP? UM, I DON'T HAVE A GOOD FEEL FOR IT HERE IN SEDONA. AND, AND MAINLY BECAUSE TO THEIR POINT, UM, THIS IS A LARGE SERVICE INDUSTRY. SO YOU SEE A LOT MORE PEOPLE HERE WHO MAY HAVE HAD A SERVICE JOB, AND THEN THE SEASON'S OUT. NOW THEY DON'T HAVE A JOB, AND THEN THEY'RE WAITING FOR THE SEASON TO COME BACK. SO IT'S KIND OF THIS WEIRD THING HERE, RIGHT? UM, THE ONES THAT THE POLICE OFFICERS ARE DEALING WITH ON A DAILY BASIS, PROBABLY THAT KNOW 'EM BY NAME, UM, THEY ARE, UH, THEY'RE PEOPLE WHO'VE BEEN HERE FOR YEARS. THEY, THEY, THEY'RE KNOWN. SO WHAT HAS ME CONCERNED IS WE, WE ALL GET THE DAILY BULLETIN, AND THOSE NUMBERS IN A DAILY BULLETIN ARE RISING. IT'S REALLY CONCERNING. ARE THEY, THAT'S A QUESTION I ASK. WELL, THEY, THEY, WELL, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. BUT IT APPEARS THAT THEY'RE RISING. BUT I KNOW THAT IT'S NOT IT EXCLUSIVE OF THE NUMBERS THAT ARE DEALT WITH. IT'S JUST A, A, A SAMPLING OF THE INFORMATION OR THE ARREST OR THE INTERACTIONS. BUT HOW CLOSE ARE THEY? ARE THERE, IF WE SEE TWO OR THREE, IS THAT FOR THE DAY OR COULD THERE HAVE BEEN 10? BUT THOSE ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT WERE SPECIFIC ENOUGH TO ENTER INTO THE REPORT. UH, IT'S KIND OF HIT AND MISS. UH, AND IT JUST DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH WE'RE ACTUALLY TALKING TO SOMEBODY. UM, I'LL GUARANTEE YOU THAT 95% OF THOSE TRESPASSES THAT YOU SEE ON THE BOLTONS, THERE ARE CHRONIC PEOPLE. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, THAT MOVE ALONG. UM, AND WE'VE KIND OF TAKEN A DIFFERENT STANCE RECENTLY. NOT A DIFFERENT STANCE, BUT WE'VE RE UH, WE'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR SUPERVISORS ABOUT, HEY, WE'RE NOT THE MOVE ALONG POLICE. SO WE, IF SOMEBODY WANTS US TO GO TRESPASS SOMEBODY THAT'S A CRIMINAL ACT, WE'LL GO DO IT. BUT WE'RE NOT GONNA COME OUT AND JUST CONTINUE TO MOVE SOMEBODY FROM BUSINESS TO BUSINESS. MM-HMM. . BECAUSE THAT'S, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S A PROBLEM BECAUSE IT'S NOT CRIMINAL NATURE. SO WE GET IN A TUSSLE WITH SOMEBODY, 'CAUSE WE, THEY WANT THEM TO MOVE ON, THEN THAT'S NOT A GOOD PLACE FOR US TO BE, BE, AND IT'S NOT SOLVING ANY PROBLEM. IF YOU'RE A BUSINESS OWNER, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO EITHER TELL THEM YOU NEED TO MOVE ALONG, OR HEY, YOU'RE TRESPASSED AND I'M GONNA CALL THE POLICE. AND WITH THAT, THAT WILL START TO, THAT WILL START TO HELP THE CHRONIC TRESPASS BECAUSE WE'LL START TO INCREASE THAT. BECAUSE NOW WE'RE ACTUALLY, I DON'T WANNA SAY WE'RE FORCING, BUT WE'RE KIND OF SAYING, HEY, BUSINESS OWNER OR RESIDENT, WE'RE NOT GONNA COME OUT AND DO THIS UNLESS YOU'RE GONNA HELP US OUT, MEANING THAT WE NEED SOME TEETH BEHIND THIS. SO TELL US THAT YOU WANT TO TRESPASS AND WE'LL COME HELP YOU, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HELP US JUST TO KEEP BUMPING THEM DOWN THE ROAD. BUT CHIEF, WE'RE STILL SEEING WHOLE FOODS BASHES, NOT SO MUCH SAFEWAY ON A, ON A PRETTY MUCH CONSISTENT BASIS. SO THAT'S CON CONTRACT CONTRARY TO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING? YEAH. WELL, AND THAT'S BECAUSE, UM, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SAY THIS POLITELY. UM, , I GET IT. OKAY. WE, NO, WE JUST HAVE BUSINESSES HERE THAT THEY, THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T WANT TO ENFORCE STUFF LIKE THAT, RIGHT? SO ONE MINUTE THEY'RE TRESPASS, THE NEXT MINUTE THEY'RE LIKE, NO, THEY'RE OKAY. UM, IN COTTONWOOD, THERE WAS A SAFE, THEY HAVE A, A SAFE SHOPPER PROGRAM IN COTTONWOOD THAT WAS STARTED WAY BEFORE I GOT THERE. AND BASICALLY IT IS A, UM, NOTICE FROM THE, FROM THE BUSINESS. AND THE BUSINESS CAN SAY, HEY, POLICE DEPARTMENT, YOU HAVE AUTHORITY TO TRESPASS ANYBODY WHO IS DOING NEFARIOUS THINGS ON MY PROPERTY. HERE'S THE SIGNED AGREEMENT AND WE HAVE [03:50:01] ACT ON OUR BEHALF. RIGHT? WE HAVE THAT HERE. AND THAT ACTUALLY HAS SPUN INTO US GOING, IT SPUN INTO COTTONWOOD OFFICERS GOING TO BUSINESSES AND KNOCKING, GOING, HEY, WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE PART OF THIS PROGRAM? WHICH HELPS NOW, BECAUSE NOW THE OFFICER CAN JUST WALK UP AND GO, HEY, PETE, UHUH, YOU GOTTA GO. AND IT IT'LL CAUSE US THAT AUTHORITY WHERE IF YOU'RE AT WHOLE FOODS, WHICH MANAGER ARE YOU GONNA GET TODAY? RIGHT? SAFEWAY, WHICH MANAGER ARE YOU GONNA GET TODAY? YOU GONNA GET THE MANAGER WHO WANTS THEM GONE? OR ARE YOU GONNA GET THE MANAGER WHO IS, YOU KNOW, SYMPATHETIC TO IT, LIKE, AH, WE'LL LEAVE IT. SO MY LAST QUESTION TO YOU IS, FOR YOUR THREE MONTHS HERE, TWO MONTHS HERE, JUST YOUR PROFESSIONAL OPINION, THE PEOPLE THAT WERE HAVING REPEAT OFFENDERS, THE CHRONIC ISSUES THAT WE'RE HAVING HERE, IF WE HAD THE, THE SYSTEMS IN PLACE AT COTTONWOOD THAT YOU SET UP IN COTTONWOOD, DO YOU THINK OUR NUMBERS WOULD BE REDUCED THE SAME OR WORSE? I THINK IF WE WENT TO THE HOLISTIC APPROACH AND WE WENT WITH, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE WHOLE PACKAGE, YOU'D REDUCE IT. AND I, AND HONESTLY, I, I CAN TELL YOU THAT OUT OF ALL THE PEOPLE I'VE DEALT WITH THAT WERE HOMELESS, THAT COTTONWOOD, I, I THINK I'VE SEEN THREE OR FOUR THAT I'VE SEEN GO FROM THE STREET TO WHERE THEY NEEDED TO BE. BUT I, HOW MANY IS, YOU KNOW, UH, FOUR IS A GREAT NUMBER, RIGHT? PEOPLE SAY, AH, IT'S ONLY FOUR OUT OF 200. WELL, WE STILL SAY FOUR, AND WE, YOU KNOW, TRY TO HELP THESE OTHER PEOPLE. SO, I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT IT IS. THAT'S A BIG HELP. THANK YOU, UH, KATHY AND PETE. SO MY QUESTION GOES BACK TO OUR CONSULTANTS HERE, BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT HAVING A HOLISTIC, COMPREHENSIVE PROGRAM, YOU SAID WOULD HELP REDUCE IT. BUT MY QUESTION WENT BACK TO YOUR SLIDE OF, UM, UH, RESOLUTION RESEARCH AND EVIDENCE. WHAT STRATEGIES DO NOT GENERALLY RESOLVE HOMELESSNESS? AND YOU HAVE FORCED INVOLUNTARY RELOCATION AND CITATION CRIMINALIZATION. SO MY QUESTION IS, DOES THAT REDUCE HOMELESSNESS OR DOES THAT JUST MOVE IT ALONG OUT OF OUR, MY VISION? MM-HMM, . WELL, I THINK WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IN THE HOLISTIC PACKAGE IS NOT JUST, IT'S NOT PURE, IT'S NOT CRI, IT'S NOT REALLY NOT CRIMINALIZATION OF HOMELESSNESS. THAT WHAT I'M, WHAT I'VE HEARD, AND WHEN WE HEARD, WHEN WE INTERVIEWED THE OFFICER IN, IN CONWOOD, WAS THAT THEY'RE REALLY COORDINATING RESOURCES. SO LIKE THE THREE OR FOUR PEOPLE THAT RESOLVED THEIR HOMELESS SITUATION, WHO WERE EXPERIENCING CHRONIC HOMELESSNESS, IF I, UM, IF I MAY LIKE ELABORATE ON WHAT WE HEARD FROM, UM, THE INTERVIEW IN CONWOOD WAS, THERE WERE, WAS INTENSIVE EFFORT FROM THE OFFICER TO CONNECT THEM TO SPECTRUM, TO CONNECT THEM TO HOUSING OPTIONS. AND SO I THINK WHAT I'M HEARING IS THAT WITH STRUCTURE AND LIKE AN, UH, A POLICE FORCE THAT'S EMPOWERED TO KINDA LIKE HOLD SOME, UM, GUIDE RAILS AROUND HOW THINGS GO ON THE STREET AND OPTIONS THAT PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY MOVE INTO AND ASSISTANCE TO STABILIZE, WE WOULD SEE A REDUCTION IN HOMELESSNESS. AND THE OFFICERS COULD BE A BIG PART OF WHAT ACTIVATES THAT. YEAH. AND, AND, AND, UM, COUNCILWOMAN THE CITATION AND CRIMINALIZATION IS, THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING. OKAY, WE'RE DONE. WE'VE, WE TRY TO GIVE YOU THESE RESOURCES. WE DID THIS, WE'VE WARNED YOU ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS. AND NOW WE'RE AT THAT CITATION CRIMINALIZATION POINT. BUT I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, WITHOUT THOSE RESOURCES, WITHOUT THESE THINGS IN PLACE, OFFICERS ARE GOING STRAIGHT TO THE CITATION AND THE CRIMINALIZATION BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY KNOW, THAT'S WHAT THEY'VE BEEN TAUGHT. I'M A POLICE OFFICER, I KNOW THE LAW. I KNOW HOW TO ARREST SOMEBODY. THEY, I DON'T HAVE THE OTHER RESOURCES TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE THINGS. THAT'S WHY THOSE ARE ALL IMPORTANT, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, THEY'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. WE'RE AT CITATION AND CRIMINALIZATION AND ALL WE'RE DOING IS SAYING, HEY, YOU'RE LITTERING. HERE'S YOUR TICKET. GO SEE THE JUDGE. WHERE IT WOULD RATHER IT BE NICER TO HAVE THAT STEP PROGRAM. BECAUSE WHEN YOU DO A CITATION AND YOU SAY, DIDN'T I HAVE THIS CONVERSATION WITH YOU AND DIDN'T I GET YOU INTO A HOUSE? AND DIDN'T WE GET YOU INTO THE COURT AND DIDN'T WE GET YOU MENTAL HEALTH? AND THEY GO, YES, YES, YES, YES. YOU'RE LIKE, OKAY. RIGHT. SO THERE'S PART OF US AS POLICE OFFICERS ALSO, WE WANNA FEEL GOOD IN THE BELLY. THAT MAKES US FEEL GOOD IN THE BELLY BECAUSE WE DID EVERYTHING WE COULD TO ASSIST THEM THROUGH THAT. THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS? OKAY. ANY, YEAH. PETE, YOU DONE? YEAH. NO, JUST ONE. OH, OKAY. QUESTION MARY. I, I WANTED TO JUST FOLLOW UP ON THAT DATA QUESTION 'CAUSE I, I READ THOSE REPORTS TOO, BUT THE LAST THING I WANNA DO IS TRY TO DRAW CONCLUSIONS OF SOMETHING THAT I READ THREE TIMES A DAY. DO YOU, WHAT DOES THE DATA SHOW? DO WE HAVE GOOD DATA IN THE DEPARTMENT? IS THE VISIBLE STUFF INCREASING HOLD AND STEADY RISING AT THE 6% A YEAR? [03:55:01] WHERE, WHERE ARE WE IN OUR COMMUNITY? I, I HONESTLY COULDN'T ANSWER THAT RIGHT NOW. DO WE HAVE THE DATA IN OUR SYSTEM IN YOUR DEPARTMENT TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION? I, I'M, I'M CERTAIN WE COULD LOOK BACK TO SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT THOSE TRESPASSES LOOK LIKE AND THOSE CALLS FOR SERVICE. UM, JUST FROM MY SHORT TIME, I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU A GOOD, A GOOD WINDOW OF THAT. AND ESPECIALLY BECAUSE IT'S SEASONAL, SO, SURE, YEAH. WE HAVE TO BE AN ANNUALIZED KIND OF NUMBER. I WOULD ARGUE THOUGH THAT THEY SAY THAT OUR SUMMERS ARE TOO HOT HERE. SUMMERS ARE WHERE THEY, THEY WANT TO BE UP HERE IN THE SUMMERTIME. IT'S OUR WINTERS THAT THEY'RE GOING, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GOING OTHER PLACES. SO WELL BE IF, IF, IF WE GET A CHANCE SOMEHOW AND, AND CAN DO SOME ANALYSIS OF THE DATA. 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, I LIKE TO BE PROBLEM SOLVING ORIENTED AND I WANNA KNOW IF THERE'S A PROBLEM THAT WE'RE WORKING ON OR THAT. WELL, AND THEN CONVERSELY, I I JUST WANNA PUT THIS IN YOUR MIND TOO. CONVERSELY, UM, IF YOU GO TO COTTONWOOD AND YOU LOOK AT THEIR STATS, UM, THEIR STATS MAY BE DOWN, BUT IT'S NOT BECAUSE THEY'VE NECESSARILY, UM, THEY DON'T HAVE, UH, IT'S BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY'VE PUT IN PLACE WORKING ON, THEY'RE WORKING, WORKING ON. SO NOW IT'S DOWN, RIGHT? BECAUSE WE ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY, I WANNA SEE THE STATS. OH, THERE'S NOT NO, THERE'S NO CRIME HERE. SO WHAT DO WE NEED POLICE OFFICERS FOR? WHAT DO WE NEED THIS PROGRAM FOR? WELL, THOSE STATS ARE DOWN BECAUSE WE HAD THOSE PROGRAMS, RIGHT? RIGHT. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE DOWN. SO I DON'T WANNA MISLEAD PEOPLE AND SAYING, HEY, STATS ARE THE END ALL BE ALL. BECAUSE SOMETIMES WHEN WE'RE DOING IT RIGHT, STATS ARE DOWN. SURE ARE. YEAH. YEAH, YEAH. I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT. AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL INFLUENCED BY VARIOUS POLICIES AND PROCEDURES YOU PUT IN DEPARTMENT TWO, IF, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE NOT GONNA STOP, IF YOU'RE GONNA STOP DOING SOMETHING THAT YOU WERE, THE DATA'S GONNA CHANGE. AND SO YOU NEED TO THINK ABOUT THAT. SO FOLLOW GOOD, PETE. AND I JUST WANNA FOLLOW UP WITH YOU ON THOSE STATS. I'M JUST SURPRISED THAT, BECAUSE IT'S ONE OF THE MOST PREVALENT ISSUES THAT WE HAVE, UH, ASIDE FROM SHORT TERM RENTALS, BUT THAT'S ACTUALLY WORSE. WE HAVEN'T BEEN TRACKING THEM ALL THIS TIME. IT, IT, WHETHER YOU'RE TAKING ENFORCEMENT OR NOT, I'M JUST DISAPPOINTED THAT WE HAVEN'T BEEN TRACKING THEM. I THINK IT, THE INFORMATION SHOULD HAVE BEEN TRACKED. SO HOPEFULLY WE CAN MOVE TO THAT DIRECTION AND THEN WE CAN START WORKING ON OUR OWN P OR YOUR, YOUR OWN POLICY HERE. SO, WELL, I'M, I'M SURE IT'S TRACKED 'CAUSE WE HAVE STATISTICAL DATA MAYOR, IT'S JUST A MATTER OF HOW WE EXTRACT THAT. AND, UM, AND HONESTLY, I, FROM MY POINT OF VIEW AS A, AN EXECUTIVE, THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, UM, THAT THOSE STATS DON'T DO ME ANY GOOD. THEY DON'T DO ME ANY GOOD BECAUSE IF I DON'T HAVE OTHER THINGS IN PLACE, THOSE STATS AREN'T GONNA CHANGE. I GOTTA HAVE OTHER THINGS IN PLACE TO BE ABLE TO SAY, HOW ARE WE MOVING THIS IN THAT DIRECTION? AND RIGHT NOW FROM HERE, THOSE STATS REALLY DON'T HELP ME BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A WAY TO GET MY OFFICERS OUTTA THAT CONTINUOUS CIRCLE WHERE, YOU KNOW, AND IN COTTONWOOD WE WERE ABLE TO SEE THAT CHANGE AND WE ABLE TO SAY, OKAY, WHAT OF OUR DIFFERENCES? BECAUSE THOSE REPEAT CALLS FOR SERVICES WE KNOW WENT DOWN, THEY DROPPED BY HALF AND THEY, AND THEY DROPPED BY HALF. NOT BECAUSE WE WERE PROSECUTING, BUT 'CAUSE WE WERE HAVING FACE-TO-FACE ENCOUNTERS. RIGHT. BUT I THINK THAT INFORMATION MIGHT HELP THE COUNCIL IN MAKING BUDGETING, UH, DECISIONS. SO THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S A WAY THAT, UM, YOU'RE GONNA FIGURE THAT OUT IN A COUPLE, IN A, JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS. SO, UH, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, EACH PERSON OR EACH TEAM HAS A DIFFERENT WAY OF USING THE STATS. SO I THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE WE'RE GONNA TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT NOW AND THEN, UH, WE'LL DO, UH, FINAL, UH, OUR, OUR FINAL QUESTIONS. SO BILL NEWAN, IF YOU'LL COME UP TO THE MIC, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES. START WITH YOUR, UH, NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE. UM, MY NAME IS BILL NEWAN. I LIVE IN, UH, SEDONA. UH, AND I WANTED TO THANK THE COUNCIL FOR THE VERY THOUGHTFUL QUESTIONS THAT THEY'VE BEEN ASKING, UH, THEIR CONSULTANTS HERE TONIGHT. UNFORTUNATELY, YOU'VE LEFT ME WITH VERY LITTLE TO SAY, UH, BECAUSE I THINK YOU'VE, YOU'VE ASKED MANY OF THE SAME QUESTIONS, RAISED MANY OF THE SAME ISSUES THAT I WOULD HAVE. BUT, UH, THE ONE THING THAT THAT LEAVES ME PUZZLED AS I SIT HERE LISTENING TO THIS DISCUSSION IS, YOU KNOW, WHY ARE WE COUNTING HOMELESSNESS IN THE VERDE VALLEY? UH, I CAN'T THINK OF SEVEN MORE DISPARATE CITIES, SHALL WE SAY, THAN THE SEVEN CITIES OF THE, OF THE VERDE VALLEY FROM JEROME DOWN TO, TO RIM ROCK. UH, THEY EACH HAVE THEIR OWN UNIQUE SOCIOECONOMIC AND, UH, AND, UH, UH, DIFFERENT REASONS FOR THE HOMELESSNESS THEY HAVE. I THINK THAT THE SOLUTIONS TO HOMELESSNESS IN EACH OF THOSE PLACES IS QUITE DISTINCT. AND SO I THINK THAT IT'S, IT'S PROBABLY CONCEPTUALLY, UH, INCORRECT TO BE LOOKING AT THIS OR EVEN EXPENDING THE CITY'S RESOURCES ON, UH, COUNTING HOMELESSNESS, UH, THROUGHOUT THE VERDE, UH, VALLEY. AND I KNOW SOMEONE HAS MENTIONED THE PROBLEM OF, UH, SELLING SOMETHING, UH, POLITICALLY TO THE PEOPLE, THE POLITICAL WILL. UH, CERTAINLY ONE OF THE, THE BIGGEST OBSTACLES YOU WOULD HAVE, UH, IN PRESENTING WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HERE TONIGHT TO THE PUBLIC, IS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THE PERCEPTION THAT THE CITY OF [04:00:01] SEDONA IS USING ITS RESOURCES, UH, TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS, UH, THAT ARE PRESENT IN OTHER PLACES, UH, FOR VERY DIFFERENT REASONS. AND HOMELESSNESS MAY EXIST, UH, IN SEDONA. UH, BUT, UM, ONE OTHER, JUST ONE OTHER QUICK ISSUE THAT I DID WANT TO ADDRESS WAS SOMETHING, UM, THAT, UH, ONE OF YOUR CONSULTANTS HAS SAID SEVERAL TIMES TONIGHT, WHICH IS THAT, UM, IS THAT PROVIDING ADDITIONAL HOMELESS, UH, SERVICES, UH, DOES NOT CAUSE MORE HOMELESSNESS. AND, UH, YOU KNOW, ALTHOUGH THERE MIGHT BE SOME ACADEMIC RESEARCH THAT WOULD SUPPORT THAT NOTION, UH, I THINK WE'VE RUN THAT REAL TIME EXPERIMENT, UH, OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS. AND THAT IF YOU ASK ANYBODY FROM PORTLAND TO SAN FRANCISCO OR FROM BOZEMAN TO SAN LUIS OBISPO, THEY'RE GOING TO TELL YOU THAT YOUR CONSULTANT IS WRONG. THAT SPENDING MONEY ON HOMELESSNESS DOES IN FACT INCREASE HOMELESSNESS. AND I THINK WE NEED LOOK NOW FURTHER THAN, UH, CALIFORNIA, WHICH SPENT, UH, $24 BILLION OVER A FIVE YEAR PERIOD AND MANAGED TO INCREASE HOMELESSNESS THERE BY 25%. SO I THINK THAT THE NOTION THAT IT'S AS SIMPLE AS SAYING THAT, THAT, UH, THAT THERE IS NO, UH, INCENTIVE, UH, FROM SPENDING ADDITIONAL MONEY ON, ON HOMELESSNESS, UH, THAT DOESN'T INCREASE HOMELESSNESS. THAT'S, WELL, AT THE VERY LEAST, UH, DISPUTABLE AND I THINK, UH, INCONTROVERTIBLY WRONG. UM, AND, AND THIS, THIS SORT OF DISCONNECT BETWEEN THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT'S SPENT AND THE AMOUNT OF RESOURCES THAT ARE PROVIDED TO THE HOMELESS, UH, AND THE RESULTS, UH, THE, THE OUTCOMES, I THINK ACCOUNTS FOR THE, UM, UH, FOR, FOR THE REASON THAT NATIONAL OPINION HAS TURNED DECISIVELY AGAINST PROGRAMS LIKE THE ONES RECOMMENDED BY YOUR CONSULTANTS. AND I, I AM GRATIFIED TO HEAR THE COUNCIL SORT OF THOUGHTFULLY LOOKING FOR WAYS TO ALMOST SURGICALLY ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM. AND I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME TONIGHT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. SUZANNE STRAUSS. OKAY, START WITH YOUR NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE, SUZANNE STRAUSS. SEDONA, IT IS DEEPLY CONCERNING THAT THE CITY OF SEDONA HAS FUNDED A HOMELESSNESS STUDY THAT AN ACCURATELY COMBINED DATA FROM SEDONA WITH THE ENTIRE VERDE VALLEY. THIS FLAWED METHODOLOGY SKEWS THE RESULTS, MISREPRESENT SEDONAS UNIQUE CHALLENGES, AND UNFAIRLY BURDENED SEDONA RESIDENTS WITH FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR ISSUES BEYOND THE CITY LIMITS. USING OUTDATED HOMELESS DATA, FURTHER UNDERMINES THE STUDY'S CREDIBILITY AND PERPETUATES A FALSE NARRATIVE. THIS APPROACH IS NOT ONLY MISLEADING, BUT ALSO HARMFUL TO SEDONAS REPUTATION AS A BEAUTIFUL AND WELCOMING DESTINATION. WE MUST INSIST ON TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY TO ENSURE THAT TAXPAYER FUNDS ARE USED APPROPRIATELY TO ADDRESS SEDONA SPECIFIC CONCERNS, NOT BROADER, NOT BROADER REGIONAL ISSUES. THIS MIS MISREPRESENTATION NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED BEFORE IT LEADS TO DAMAGING CONSEQUENCES FOR THE COMMUNITY. LOW INCOME DENSITY, AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS A SCAM IN A COTTAGE INDUSTRY, WHICH ACTUALLY INCREASES THE COST OF LIVING AND DECREASES THE QUALITY OF LIFE WHILE POCKETING ADMINISTRATIVE DOLLARS AND ADVOCATING FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WHICH TRULY HAS NO DEFINITION. THE HOMELESS SOCIAL EXPERIMENTS HAS NOT WORKED ELSEWHERE. WHY IS A DONUT ANY DIFFERENT? THE RESIDENTS HAVE SPOKEN TWO TO ONE IN THIS ISSUE ON NOVEMBER 5TH IN ORDER TO REIGN IN THE OUT OF CONTROL, OUT OF TOUCH COUNSEL AND STAFF. AND IT'S OUTTA CONTROL SPINNING. IT'S STUDIES LIKE THESE THAT GIVE CREDENCE TO NO HOME RULE. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENT, SUZANNE STRAUSS. WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD, BRING IT BACK TO COUNCIL, AND, UH, YES, WE'LL DO FINAL COMMENTS. KATHY, THERE'S ACTUALLY ANOTHER QUESTION. I'M SORRY, THAT'S, I HAVE, UM, HAVE, HAVE I I I, I THINK OUR DEPUTY CHIEF, UM, MIGHT BE ABLE TO ANSWER THIS, BUT I ALSO LIKE THE INPUT AS WELL. HAVE WE SEEN FROM WHAT YOU, YOU ARE STUDIED IN, SINCE YOU WERE IN TWO OF THE COMMUNITIES IN THE VERDE VALLEY, HAVE YOU SEEN MOVEMENT BETWEEN OR AMONG THE VERDE VALLEY COMMUNITIES OF THE SAME HOMELESS POPULATION? OR DO THEY, DO THE HOMELESS POPULATION OF SEDONA STAY FAIRLY DISTINCT FROM THE HOMELESS POPULATION IN COTTONWOOD VERSUS, YOU KNOW, CLARKDALE? UH, WE SEE THEM BACK AND FORTH ONE MINUTE. YOU SEE THEM BACK AND FORTH. YEAH. ONE MINUTE WE'LL HAVE, THEY'LL BE IN COTTONWOOD, NEXT MINUTE THEY'LL BE IN SEDONA. AND IT'S A, THAT'S A VERY COMMON AND YOU CONCUR WITH THOSE. OKAY, THANK YOU. QUESTION, UH, DEPUTY CHIEF, JUST, YOU'RE GONNA JUST BE HANDY. I'M SURE THERE'LL BE MORE QUESTIONS FOR YOU. UH, AND THEN MY QUESTION ACTUALLY IS NOT FOR THE DEPUTY CHIEF. UH, IF WE HAD A MILLION DOLLARS [04:05:01] TO SPEND, NO, IT'S NOT FOR THE DEPUTY. OKAY. IF WE HAD A MILLION DOLLARS TO SPEND RIGHT NOW, WHAT WOULD YOUR RECOMMENDATION BE OF THE, OF WHERE WE WOULD GET THE MOST BANG FOR THE BUCK AND WE THAT COULD IMPLEMENT QUICKLY? GINA, DO YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS? UM, YEAH, I CAN ANSWER THAT. THANK YOU COUNSEL, VICE MAYOR. UM, SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DO RIGHT NOW, UM, AND IF YOU KNOW, I'M GOING HAPPY TO SHARE THIS WITH YOU, AND IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO DO, THEN STAFF CAN BRING IT FORWARD. BUT, UM, THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A RENTAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, UH, IN TANDEM WITH CATHOLIC CHARITIES, UM, TO PROVIDE RENTAL ASSISTANCE TO THOSE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS, INCLUDING VEHICLE DWELLERS AND, AND OTHERS WHO ARE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS. SO WHAT THIS, UM, THIS IS, THIS WOULD BE A RAPID REHOUSING AND THIS WOULD PROVIDE MOVE-IN ASSISTANCE, HOUSING NAVIGATION, HOUSING CASE MANAGEMENT, COORDINATED ENTRY, OUTREACH, EDUCATION, SUPERVISION AND OVERSIGHT. UM, THE PROGRAM DETAILS ARE BEING WORKED OUT IF, UM, WE WANT TO EXPLORE THAT FURTHER. BUT ESSENTIALLY IT WILL INCLUDE, UM, HOUSING HOUSEHOLDS THAT ARE IN NEED OF ASSISTANCE AND THERE WOULD BE, UM, GUIDANCE TO, YOU KNOW, HOUSING NAVIGATION, WHICH MEANS FINDING THE, THE, UH, WORKING WITH THE LANDLORDS, FINDING THE UNITS THAT ARE AVAILABLE, UM, THROUGHOUT THE VERDE VALLEY. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE WITHIN THE CITY OF SEDONA LIMITS, UH, UM, TO BE ABLE TO FIND THE APPROPRIATE, UM, UNITS THAT WOULD BE AFFORDABLE. YEAH. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A VERY, VERY INTERESTING PROGRAM THAT COULD BE STARTED UP FAIRLY QUICKLY. UM, IT WOULD PROBABLY COST A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN A MILLION DOLLARS TO, YOU KNOW, FOR A TWO YEAR PROGRAM THAT WOULD INCLUDE RENTAL ASSISTANCE FOR A PERIOD OF TIME, UM, WITH, UM, CASE MANAGEMENT, UM, SERVICES ALONG THE WAY. UM, AND THEN IT WOULD BE LIKE A STEP DOWN APPROACH. SO IT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR OF, OF SUBSIDY. AND THEN WITH THE, WITH THE THOUGHT THAT AT THAT TIME THE STABILITY WILL BE THERE, THE HOUSING STABILITY WILL BE THERE, THEY WILL HAVE JOBS, THEY WILL BE, YOU KNOW, BE ABLE TO MANAGE ON THEIR OWN. UM, SO A LITTLE BIT ABOUT CATHOLIC CHARITIES. THAT'S REALLY COME UP A LOT TONIGHT. AND I WANTED TO JUST REITERATE THAT, UM, THE CITY OF SEDONA IS PART OF THE ARIZONA BALANCE OF STATE CONTINUUM OF CARE, WHICH IS CONSISTS OF 13 COUNTIES THROUGHOUT THE RURAL PARTS OF THE STATE. UM, EACH COUNTY HAS A DIFFERENT, WHAT'S CALLED AN LCEH, WHICH STANDS FOR THE, UH, LOCAL COALITION TO END HOMELESSNESS. AND THIS IS AN EIGHT OH MANDATE, RIGHT? SO THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING MANDATE THAT EACH COUNTY NEEDS TO BE, UM, A PART OF THE LCEH. SO CATHOLIC CHARITIES IS ACTUALLY THE LEAD, UM, THE LEAD AGENCY ON, ON, UH, IN COCONINO AND YAVAPAI COUNTY. SO THEY DO HAVE A VERY STRONG INFRASTRUCTURE, BUT, UM, THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THE PRESENCE IS MORE IN FLAGSTAFF AND IN PRESCOTT. SO THE IDEA IS TO BRING THIS CONTINUUM OF CARE COORDINATED ENTRY SERVICE AND, UM, PROGRAMS AND SERVICES INTO THE VERDE VALLEY REGION WHERE WE HAVE A GAP, AS WE'VE HEARD FROM THE, UM, FROM THE CHIEF. UM, SO WITH THE LCEH, THE LOCAL COALITION TO END HOMELESSNESS STRUCTURE, THESE LEAD AGENCIES ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING SURE THAT THE COUNTY, THAT WHATEVER THEIR COUNTY IS, IS PERFORMING ALL THE ACTIVITIES THAT IS, THAT ARE REQUIRED BY THE CONTINUUM OF CARE. SO EVERY COUNTY IN THE STATE IS REQUIRED TO PARTICIPATE. AND THESE ACTIVITIES INCLUDE THINGS LIKE, UM, BIMONTHLY MEETINGS WITH THE LCEH [04:10:02] PEOPLE, UM, OVERSEEING COORDINATED ENTRY SYSTEM ACTIVITIES IN BEING INVOLVED IN OVERSEEING THE POINT IN TIME COUNT, WHICH IS THE ANNUAL HOMELESS COUNT THAT TAKES PLACE NATIONWIDE THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. UM, THE, AND THEY ALSO OVERSEE AND, AND HELP COORDINATE THAT DATA MANAGEMENT AND THE HMIS SYSTEM. SO THEY DO COORDINATED ENTRY MEETINGS WEEKLY. THEY DO CASE MANAGEMENT, UH, MEETINGS WITH ALL OF THE AGENCIES THAT ARE INVOLVED IN HOUSING. UM, SO IT'S A PRETTY COORDINATED COMPREHENSIVE EFFORT, WHICH IT'S LIKE THAT SKELETAL STRUCTURE, RIGHT, THAT, THAT MATT WAS TALKING ABOUT, THAT'S THE SKELETON. AND TO BE ABLE TO FILL IT IN WITH SERVICES FROM, UM, THE AGENCIES AND TO BUILD UP THE CAPACITY IN THE VERDE VALLEY WOULD CREATE A BETTER QUALITY OF LIFE. UM, S ARIZONA COMPLETE HEALTH IS ALSO A PART OF THIS, AND THEY'RE THE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH ARM AND, UM, COORDINATION THAT IS HAPPENING AT THE BALANCE OF STATE LEVEL. SO THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY A PART OF THE DISCUSSION. UM, BUT IF, UM, SO I'M SAYING ALL THIS TO SAY THAT THE CATHOLIC CHARITIES, UM, CONNECTION OR PARTNERSHIP, IF YOU WILL, WITH CITY OF SEDONA IN A RENTAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, UM, COULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE COULD DO RIGHT NOW THAT WOULD BENEFIT FAMILIES IN THE AREA IMMEDIATELY. I JUST WANT TO REMIND US THAT THE AGENDA IS MORE TO DISCUSS THAT THE DRAFT AND NOT TO DISCUSS ANY PROPOSED IDEAS. RIGHT NOW IT'S JUST FOR DIRECTION FOR THE STRATEGIC PLAN. SO I DON'T, I DON'T WANNA HAVE A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT A RENTAL ASSISTANCE BECAUSE IT'S NOT AGENDIZED FOR THAT DISCUSSION. THANK YOU, MONIQUE. UH, PETE, THANK YOU MAYOR. AND THEN KATHY, THE QUESTION I WANTED TO ASK COMES FROM A PACKET PAGE, AND THIS IS A DIFFICULT QUESTION, BUT IT'S ONE THAT WE GET AND I WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOUR ANSWER MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE COMMUNITY MEMBERS ASK THIS KIND OF QUESTION. IT COMES FROM OUR PACKET, PAGE 96, WHICH I THINK IS YOUR REPORT, PAGE 15, AND I'M QUOTING THE TOURISM AND HOSPITALITY INDUSTRIES IN SEDONA NEED A RELIABLE WORKFORCE, BUT THOSE WORKERS ARE LIKELY UNABLE TO AFFORD HOUSING WITHIN SEDONA. SO THE QUESTION THAT WE SEE POPPING UP IN, IN CONVERSATIONS ONLINE AND WHEN WE'RE OUT TALKING TO FOLKS IS ABOUT SEDONA IS A HIGH COST COMMUNITY AND OF THE WORKFORCE, HOW MANY SHOULD LIVE HERE? RIGHT? HOW DO YOU ANSWER THAT QUESTION ABOUT HOW FAR SHOULD WORKERS DRIVE, WHAT SHOULD SEDONAS RESPONSIBILITY BE? HOW MANY OF OUR LOCAL WORKFORCE SHOULD BE HOUSED IN SEDONA VERSUS OTHER PLACES IN THE VERDE VALLEY? THAT'S A QUESTION YOU'RE ASKING FOR. YEAH. I'M ASKING THE PROS IN THE ROOM. HOW DOES THE, YOU KNOW, THE, IT, IT UNHOUSED COMMUNITY TALK ABOUT LOCAL RESPONSIBILITY VERSUS A REGIONAL RESPONSIBILITY. IT, IN THE WAY YOU'RE ASKING THAT QUESTION, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THAT'S MUCH MORE A QUESTION ABOUT THE, THE CULTURE AND THE COMMUNITY OF SEDONA AND HOW YOU SEE YOURSELVES. THE QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT PEOPLE WHO, WELL, THIS MUST COME UP IN OTHER RESORT COMMUNITIES THAT ARE ALL EXPENSIVE, RIGHT? YOU CAN PROVIDE HOUSING SOLUTIONS ANYWHERE. I'VE, I'VE DONE, SOME PLACES ARE WAY MORE EXPENSIVE TO ACTUALLY PROVIDE THE SERVICE THAN OTHER PLACES. AND SO HOW DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT? I, THE WAY, THE WAY I THINK ABOUT IT IS HAVING DONE SIMILAR WORK IN BIG SKY MONTANA, WHICH IS A RESORT COMMUNITY, UM, AND, UM, SKI, UH, RESORTS IN COLORADO, WHERE THE COMMUNITY HAS TO DECIDE TO WHAT EXTENT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING AND KEEPING THOSE COMMUNITIES FUNCTIONING, FIRST RESPONDERS, TEACHERS, UH, THE CLERICAL WORKERS ARE A PART OF THEIR COMMUNITY. UM, AND THEY, IN THOSE COMMUNITIES, THEY'VE ELECTED TO CREATE ESSENTIALLY WORKER HOUSING, WORKER DORMS, OR, UH, THROUGH EITHER DEED RESTRICTIONS OR OTHER KINDS OF, UM, ACCOMMODATIONS DIRECTING THE HOUSING TO ONLY THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING AND WORKING [04:15:01] IN THE COMMUNITY AND NOT AS A INVESTMENT FOR OUTSIDE ENTITIES. AND IN THOSE COMMUNITIES, I, I IMAGINE THE ANSWER IS, IT'S A, A SPECTRUM, BUT ARE THEY TRYING, IS IT THEIR STATED GOAL TO ACHIEVE A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE WORKFORCE TO BE HOUSED IN TOWN OR HALF, OR, I, I, I DON'T, DO THEY EVEN ATTACK IT IN A CONVERSATION LIKE THAT? I DON'T KNOW. AND I DON'T KNOW IF MY STRONG SUSPICION IS THE DRIVER FOR THAT IS PURELY ECONOMICS. THAT THE SKI RESORTS, THE PUBS, THE, YOU KNOW, THE HOTELS CANNOT KEEP WORKERS. THEY CAN'T KEEP THEM IF THEY, IF THEY CAN'T PROVIDE A PLACE FOR THEM TO LIVE, IF THEY HAVE TO DRIVE TWO HOURS JUST TO GO TO WORK EVERY DAY, THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO KEEP THOSE EMPLOYEES. SO IT BECOMES AN ECONOMIC ISSUE TO MAINTAIN THE ACTUAL INFRASTRUCTURE OF THE SERVICE ECONOMY. AND THE, A CONTRASTING EXAMPLE IS BEND, OREGON, UM, WHERE I, I'VE BEEN WORKING IN THE STATE OF OREGON AND WE SEE, UH, A SIMILAR RESORT KIND OF COMMUNITY WHERE THEY HAVEN'T INVESTED IN HOUSING AND THEY ALLOWED FOR TOO LONG FOLKS TO CAMP OUT TO KIND OF HAVE AD HOC RV PARKS THAT HAVE NOW GROWN TO BE HUNDREDS OF HOUSEHOLDS THAT THEY, UM, ARE NOW STUCK WITH THIS SITUATION WHERE, UM, THE NATIONAL FOREST CAN'T SUSTAIN IT FOR A LOT. YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT THAT GOES INTO THAT, UM, ENVIRONMENTALLY, ET CETERA. BUT, UM, THEY ALSO, THE, THE TOWN CAN'T AFFORD TO HAVE IT DISMANTLED BECAUSE THAT'S THE ENTIRE WORKFORCE THAT'S SUPPORTING THE TOWN. SO THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S PRETTY, YOU KNOW, BROAD EXTREMES TO THANK YOU, MARY. I DID WANNA ASK ONE OTHER QUESTION, AND THAT'S, YOU, YOU'VE BEEN ON THE MANAGERS AND MAYORS CONVERSATION NOW FOR TWO YEARS. MM-HMM. HAS THIS TOPIC COME UP ABOUT WHAT REGIONALLY WE'RE DOING ON HOMELESSNESS? IT'S FUNNY, THE VICE MAYOR AND I HAD THAT DISCUSSION EARLIER TODAY, AND IT, IT DOESN'T COME UP OFTEN. IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T COME UP WHAT, UH, THE DEPUTY CHIEF TALKED ABOUT IN COTTONWOOD, BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY OTHER THINGS GOING ON. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S REALLY ON THE RADAR AS MUCH AS IT REALLY SHOULD BE, BUT THERE WAS A PLAN IN PLACE OF WORKING TOGETHER. THERE WAS A COMMITTEE OF THE MAYORS AND MANAGERS AND AND STAFF, UH, THAT I ATTENDED IN CLARKDALE MANY TIMES WITH, UH, THE FORMER HOUSING, UH, MANAGER. AND THAT FELL APART FOR REASONS. I'LL JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT. I THINK YOU CAN READ INTO THAT. UH, AND I THINK BECAUSE OF THAT, AND THIS IS ALL MY PERSONAL OPINION, I DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH TO BACK IT UP WITH, BUT JUST MY FEELINGS, WE ARE SORT OF OUT OF THE DISCUSSION, BUT I KNOW THAT CLARKDALE AND COTTONWOOD ARE IN DISCUSSION ON SOME TYPE OF WORKFORCE HOUSING. AND CERTAINLY, UH, COTTONWOOD IS DOING, UH, A, UH, A BIG HOUSING COMPLEX THAT'S GONNA BE MARKET RATE, UH, OFF OF COVILLE ROAD, UH, RIGHT. CHIEF THAT'S, UH, I DUNNO WHAT THE NAME IS, BUT THAT'S GOING TO BE MANY HUNDREDS. SO, BUT WE'RE NOT PART OF THAT DISCUSSION. WE DON'T, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S WITH ME, UH, ALMOST EVERY TIME, AND IT DOESN'T COME UP AND IT'S DISAPPOINTING, BUT IT WAS AT THE TIME THAT, YOU KNOW, WE MADE A DIS A DECISION, SO THANK YOU. SO, KATHY, DID YOU WANNA GO? YES. UM, FIRST OF ALL, THANK, THANK YOU FOR A VERY COMPLETE AND THOROUGH EDUCATIONAL PRESENTATION. UM, I REALLY FEEL THAT I GOT A LOT OF INFORMATION, BUT FOLLOWING THIS TOPIC, BUT I, I FEEL LIKE I GOT A LOT OF INFORMATION TONIGHT. I DID NOT PREVIOUSLY HAVE. ONE OF THE THINGS WAS, I THINK I UNDERSTAND NOW, UM, THE RELATIONSHIP WITH CATHOLIC CHARITIES BETTER THAN I PREVIOUSLY DID. SO WITH THE LACK OF DIRECT SERVICES, SINCE THEY COORDINATE TO THE DIRECT SERVICE, AND WE DON'T HAVE THE DIRECT SERVICE, I HAVE A QUESTION, WHICH DO, HAVE YOU SEEN CATHOLIC CHARITIES ENTERING INTO INDIVIDUAL CONTRACTS WITH MUNICIPALITIES TO OFFER DIRECT SERVICES THEMSELVES? IS THAT AN AVAILABLE OPTION? YES. YES. SO THAT'S SOMETHING WHEN WE GET TO BUDGET PRIORITIES THAT WE SHOULD THROW ON THAT LIST, ALONG WITH THE MYRIAD OF OTHER, UM, THINGS WE'LL PROBABLY TALK ABOUT. OKAY. UM, I DO LOOK FORWARD TO A DISCUSSION. I WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS ACTUAL PROGRAM FUNDING OPPORTUNITIES WHEN WE DO GET TO OUR BUDGET DISCUSSIONS. SO I DON'T WANNA GO INTO DETAIL ON THEM TONIGHT TO GET INTO EACH ONE, BUT I, I, I DO HOPE THAT THERE IS A, A LIST THAT COMES FORWARD, UH, THAT WE CAN LOOK AT PRIORITIZING. UM, AND I HOPE THAT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS ON THAT LIST. I KNOW THERE ARE A COUPLE THINGS I'M PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN, AND I GUESS I'M NOT ALLOWED TO RATTLE THEM OFF, BUT I CAN, [04:20:01] JEANNIE, WE WOULD LOOK FORWARD TO A CONVERSATION WITH YOU, , IF YOU WANNA DO IT THAT WAY. CAN I JUST, THE THINGS THAT I HEARD TONIGHT, THE OPEN MEETING ALLOWS FOR, UM, YOU KNOW, SHORT DISCUSSION ON THINGS REASONABLY RELATED, SO, SO, SO, YES. UH, THANK YOU. OKAY. WELL, THE THINGS, WOW. THINGS THAT I AM INTERESTED IN, IN KNOWING AND KNOWING. THANK YOU FOR THAT LICENSE. UM, , UM, WE'LL BE HERE TILL MIDNIGHT, BUT THAT'S OKAY. THE, THE RENTAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM IS INTERESTING, BUT I THINK IT HAS TO BE DISCUSSED IN CONTEXT OF OUR LACK OF STOCK THAT'S AVAILABLE. AND AGAIN, GOES INTO THE QUESTION OF WHAT GOES OUTSIDE OF THE SEDONA AREA. SO I THINK THERE MIGHT BE LIMITATIONS, BUT I, BUT I ALSO HAD THE QUESTION ABOUT THE RENTAL ASSISTANCE. DOES THAT INCLUDE THE EVICTION PRE PREVENTION? BECAUSE I THINK THEY, THEY'RE SORT OF SEPARATE PROGRAMS. I'D LIKE TO SEE THEM BOTH EXPLORED AS WELL AS THE LANDLORD MEDIATION, BECAUSE I, I SEE THOSE THREE THINGS TOGETHER. I'M ALSO VERY INTERESTED IN, UM, SOMETHING THAT WE, THAT WAS TOUCHED ON. WE DID NOT GO INTO, UM, THE, THE, UM, OUR DEPUTY CHIEF MENTIONED IT, THE TIME PLACE MANNER POLICY WOULD NOT BE A BUDGET DISCUSSION AS MUCH, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO AT SOME POINT HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT BECAUSE IT'S POLICY ISSUE THAT THAT DESERVES, UM, MORE CONVERSATION. I'D LIKE TO KNOW MORE BUDGET WISE WHAT WE MIGHT BE LOOKING AT FOR EMERGENCY SHELTER OR SOME OF THOSE SERVICES IF THEY'RE CONTRACTED SOMEWHERE OUT. UM, AND I'D ALSO LIKE TO THINK ABOUT AND THE OUTREACH OFFICER, BUT COULD THAT BE POTENTIALLY COUPLED WITH ANOTHER ROLE? I KNOW THAT WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT OTHER, UM, NEEDS THROUGH THE CITY. AND I, I THINK THAT I SEE A POTENTIAL FOR SOME COUPLING HERE, WHICH WOULD BE OFF TOPIC TO GET INTO NOW, BUT I DO HAVE SOMETHING FERMENTING , AND YOU CAN TAKE THAT UP WITH THE NET. YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WANT. YEAH, I WILL. OKAY. THANK YOU. OH, YOU GOOD? I AM GOOD. THANK YOU. VICEMAN. THIS REALLY GOES BACK TO WHAT COUNSELOR FERMAN WAS SAYING EARLIER. WHAT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY? I'M JUST TAKING IT A STEP FURTHER, THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY TO PROVIDE HOUSING. IS IT ALL ON GOVERNMENT? DO YOU KNOW OF PROGRAMS WHERE THERE'S BEEN A SUCCESSFUL COLLABORATION BETWEEN GOVERNMENT AND BUSINESS? MM-HMM. , I, I THINK CERTAINLY BUSINESSES NEED A RELIABLE WORKFORCE TO KEEP THEIR DOORS OPEN. UM, IT'S A REALLY CRITICAL COMPONENT OF THEIR OPERATING, UH, PLAN. UM, AND THERE ARE EXAMPLES OF, OF JURISDICTIONS WHERE THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY PARTNERS WITH THE PUBLIC SECTOR TO ENSURE THAT THERE'S, UM, SOME HOUSING RESOURCE OR SOME APPROACH TO, UH, MAKING, UH, LIVING ARRANGEMENTS. SO THE WORKFORCE HAS A, A VIABLE OPTION TO LIVE AND WORK IN THE COMMUNITY. I'D BE INTERESTED IN SOME EXAMPLES OF THAT I CAN BRIEFLY SHARE. IN, IN HOUSTON, THERE'S A, UH, DOWNTOWN MANAGEMENT DISTRICT THAT REPRESENTS BUSINESSES IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA THAT ALSO IS LARGELY FUNDED BY THE BUSINESSES IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA. AND THEY FUND A HOMELESS OUTREACH TEAM. UM, THAT IS, IT'S REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S ENTIRELY FUNDED BY THEM. SO THEY SET THE PRIORITIES FOR THAT TEAM, AND THEY'RE ABLE TO BE REALLY FLEXIBLE IN HOW THEY RESPOND TO DIFFERENT ISSUES THAT COME UP IN, IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA. BUT IT WORKS VERY CLOSELY WITH THE COORDINATED ENTRY SYSTEM. SO THEIR OVERARCHING ACTIVITY IS TRYING TO EXIT PEOPLE OUT OF DOWNTOWN THROUGH REHOUSING. AND, UH, SO IT, UM, IS ABLE TO MEET VARIOUS NEEDS. I CAN GET YOU MORE INFORMATION ON THAT. YEAH, I'D BE INTERESTED IN THAT. THANK YOU. AND MY VERY LAST QUESTION GOES TO THE DEPUTY CHIEF, THAT PROJECT IN COVILLE. I'VE HEARD DIFFERENT NUMBERS BEING TOSSED ABOUT AS TO, AND I KNOW IT'S GOING THROUGH PLANNING AND ZONING, SO IT MAY NOT BE FULLY BAKED YET, BUT HOW, HOW MANY HOUSING UNITS WOULD BE BUILT THERE? UH, I BELIEVE THEY'RE TALKING OVER A THOUSAND, BUT THERE'S GONNA BE DIFFERENT PHASES. SO I THINK THE FIRST PHASE IS LIKE 200 OR, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BUT, UM, I, IT'S NOT HALF-BAKED. I THINK IT'S, IT'S RIGHT ON THE CUSP OF GETTING STARTED RIGHT NOW, SO. AH, OKAY. THANK, WE TOLD YOU BEEN IMPROVED, AND I UNDERSTAND IT'S ALL MARKET RATE OR WHETHER IT BE SOME WORKFORCE YOU RECALL? UH, I THINK IT'LL BE A LITTLE BIT OF BOTH. OH, GOOD. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. DON'T GO AWAY. OKAY. MELISSA, ARE WE COMMENTING OR WE QUESTION, UH, COMMENTING NOW? WE'VE ALREADY PASSED A QUESTION UNLESS YOU HAVE A QUESTION, NOT A BURNING ONE. OKAY. UM, I WANNA THANK YOU FOR, FOR COMING, FOR DOING THIS REPORT. UM, I THANK THE DEPUTY CHIEF FOR BEING AVAILABLE FOR COMMENTS AND FOR LISTENING TO HIS EXPERIENCES, UM, AND, AND TO THANK STAFF FOR THE WORK THAT THEY'RE DOING. UM, [04:25:01] I AGREE. I THINK, I THINK THIS IS A LONG INVOLVED CONVERSATION, UM, BECAUSE THE FOCUS AS WE WERE DISCUSSING IS REALLY ON CHRONIC. SO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE VISIBLE, UM, BUT OUR LARGE NUMBER ARE THE TRANSITIONAL, OUR WORKFORCE HOUSING PEOPLE ARE PROBABLY MORE TRANSITIONAL. WE WANNA KEEP THEM FROM BECOMING EPISODIC. WE WANNA KEEP THEM FROM BECOMING CHRONIC. UM, WE, WE WANT THEM SOMEWHERE, UM, UH, WITH HEALTHY LIVES. AND SO, UM, AT LEAST IN MY OPINION, IF WE WANNA HAVE A HEALTHY COMMUNITY. SO, UM, I LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING THE CONVERSATIONS, UM, AND WHAT STAFF WILL COME UP WITH. UM, I THINK STAFF, OBVIOUSLY YOU NEED TO WORK WITH THE POLICE. UM, THIS IS, THIS IS AN INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU START TO TALK ABOUT THE CHRONIC, UM, BUT ALSO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRANSITIONAL, THE PEOPLE THAT THEY HAVE TO SAY, MOVE ALONG, UM, AT MIDNIGHT WHO MAY HAVE CHILDREN IN THEIR CARS. SO, UM, I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT. I THINK I'M LOOKING FORWARD FOR US AS A GROUP TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS, NOT JUST DURING BUDGET, BUT ALSO DURING, UM, OUR PRIORITY SETTING AS TO WHAT WE THINK IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR THE MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY WHO ARE IN THIS SITUATION. UM, I WOULD ALSO LOVE TO SEE SOMETHING FROM STAFF AROUND, UM, THE, FOR LACK OF THE RIGHT WORD, THE MARKETING OF THIS, UH, TO THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THE COMMUNITY, UM, NOT JUST UNDERSTAND THE IMPACT, BUT UM, ALSO UNDERSTAND HOW IT IS REFLECTIVE ON US AS A COMMUNITY, UM, AND WHERE WE WANT TO BE OR WHO WE WANT TO BE AS A COMMUNITY, WHAT IDENTITY WE WANT TO HAVE. SO I LOOK FORWARD TO THOSE CONVERSATIONS BOTH DURING OUR SETTING PRIORITY SETTING, AND THEN ALSO DURING BUDGET. AND, UM, I REALIZE WHEN WE START TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THESE THINGS THAT DEPUTY CHIEF MENTIONED THAT, YOU KNOW, HOUSING HAS MENTIONED, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BUDGET AND, UM, THAT IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE PLAYED AGAINST OTHER ITEMS THAT ARE IN THE BUDGET THAT WE SPOKE ABOUT EARLIER TODAY OR ALLUDED TO EARLIER TODAY. UM, AND THAT TO ME, UH, GOES BACK TO OUR PRIORITY SETTING. SO THANK YOU, BRIAN. THANK YOU, MAYOR JEANIE. ONE QUESTION FIRST. THE, UH, HOUSING ASSISTANCE VOUCHERS, WHATEVER WE CALL THOSE. UH, IS THAT A O THING OR ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, UM, HOUSING FIRST SECTION EIGHT VOUCHERS? OR ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT COLD WEATHER VOUCHERS? YOU, YOU WERE RENTAL RENT VOUCHERS. RENTAL. OKAY. SO THAT YOU BROUGHT UP AS A, A RENT. OKAY. WHO'S FUNDING THAT? THANK YOU. UM, THAT WOULD BE FUNDED BY THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING. OKAY. ALRIGHT. UH, SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU CHIEF. UH, GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE THIS EVENING. UM, MY BIGGEST PRIORITY COMING OUT OF TONIGHT IS I WOULD LOVE TO SEE IN A UPCOMING WORK SESSION, HAVING CATHOLIC CHARITIES AND ARIZONA COMPLETE HEALTH IN HERE, AND HEARING VERY DIRECTLY FROM THEM EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND GET A GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IS IT GONNA TAKE TO GET THEM FOCUSING ENERGY AND ATTENTION HERE TO HELP US IN OUR COMMUNITY. UM, I DO THINK THAT, UM, I, I DON'T SEE HOW WE CAN DIVORCE THIS TOPIC FROM THE REST OF THE VERDE VALLEY, ESPECIALLY COTTONWOOD. I MEAN, THERE'S, THERE'S JUST SUCH STRONG LINKAGE WITH THE SHUTTLE, IF NOTHING ELSE, RIGHT? I MEAN, WE KNOW THAT GO BACK AND FORTH ON IT, SO I DON'T THINK WE CAN JUST SAY, HEY, WE CAN ONLY LOOK AT SEDONA AS IT RELATES TO THIS. UM, BUT OBVIOUSLY WE DO HAVE TO WATCH OUT FOR OUR INTERESTS FIRST, UH, IN THE END. UM, YEAH, BEEN VERY INFORMATIVE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, I THINK THAT'S IT FOR ME TONIGHT. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. UM, COMMENTS DOWN HERE? I THOUGHT I, I APOLOGIZE. GO AHEAD. OH, YEAH, THE, THE QUIET GUY. QUIET. WELL COMMENT. ALL RIGHT. I'M NOT GONNA BE QUIET NOW. UM, BRIAN, I'M NOT PICKING ON YOU, ALTHOUGH IT'S GONNA COME ACROSS THIS WAY. UM, WHEN WE LOOK AT THIS, I JUST, I DON'T WANT US TO GET TOO HUNG UP ON, OKAY, THIS IS THE PRICE PER HOMELESS PERSON THAT WE'RE HELPING PER YEAR. UM, BECAUSE I THINK IF WE DO THAT, WE'RE GONNA PUT A PRICE TAG ON IT, WHETHER IT'S 20,000 OR 10,000 OR 5,000, YOU KNOW, IF WE LOOK AT IT THAT WAY, IT'S EASY TO GO, OH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S TOO MUCH. BUT I MEAN, WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE IMPACT ON, YOU KNOW, HAVING THESE SERVICES IS GONNA TAKE SOME PRESSURE OFF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. UM, IT'S GONNA IMPROVE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PEACE OF MIND OF OUR [04:30:01] RESIDENTS WHO ARE NO LONGER GOING INTO STORES AND HAVING HOPEFULLY NO LONGER HAVING PEOPLE STANDING IN FRONT OF THE STORE ASKING THEM FOR MONEY. AND, YOU KNOW, YOU REALLY CAN'T, I DON'T THINK, PUT A PRICE ON THOSE TYPES OF INTANGIBLES. SO I JUST, I WANT TO AVOID THE TEMPTATION TO DISTILL IT DOWN TOO MUCH TO, YOU KNOW, A PRICE TAG. NOT PICKING ON YOU, BRIAN, BUT YOU'RE THE ONE TO RAISE. OH, HE'S TOUGH. HE COULD TAKE IT. . WE'RE ALL TOUGH. THAT'S IT FOR ME. BOOK ENDS OVER HERE. INTERESTING. DYNAMIC , I'LL SAY. OKAY, PETE, THANKS MAYOR. UH, I WANTED TO THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THE REPORT. UH, BUT EVEN MORE, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. IT'S ONE THING TO READ A REPORT, BUT IT'S A DIFFERENT THING TO ACTUALLY ENGAGE WITH YOU AND TO SORT OF PROBE YOUR THINKING AND HEAR YOUR BACKGROUND. AND, AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS VERY HELPFUL. THAT'S ACTUALLY WAS A VERY, UH, INTERESTING DISCUSSION FOR ME. TONIGHT. I PULL OUT OF, AGAIN, OUR PACKET, PAGE 88, I'M GONNA QUOTE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT REPORT PAGE THAT IS, BUT YOU STATE THAT. I JUST WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE. REDUCING HOMELESSNESS IN THE REGION WILL REQUIRE A COLLECTIVE APPROACH ACROSS POLITICAL JURISDICTIONS THAT IS ROOTED IN A COMMON VISION THAT ALIGNS AND COORDINATES A SHARED SET OF RESOURCES THROUGHOUT THE VERDE VALLEY. AND SO THAT, THAT LINE ALONE MAKES ME WANNA SAY NO TO SPENDING UNTIL WE'VE STARTED THIS CONVERSATION. I, I DON'T WANNA START PICKING AND CHOOSING, I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO START, OR, OR, OR WHERE TO THROW RESOURCES AT IT. AND IT'S A CONVERSATION THAT HAS TO NOT ONLY ENGAGE WITH CATHOLIC CHARITIES IN THIS OTHER ORGANIZATION THAT I DON'T HAVE AT THE TOP OF MY MIND, BUT THE COUNTIES I, I, YOU KNOW, AT, AT SOMETIMES I GET THE SENSE THAT THE COUNTIES JUST WANNA SPEND MONEY OUTSIDE OF THE CITIES. MM-HMM. IN THE RURAL SECTIONS. BUT I REALLY BELIEVE THAT THIS IS THEIR WHEELHOUSE. I THINK THIS IS IN THE MA THE MISSION OF WHAT COUNTIES DO. AND SO I NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YAVAPAI AND COCONINO COUNTIES WANTS TO ENGAGE WITH US ON THIS ISSUE. SO IT GOES BEYOND JUST THOSE PEOPLE. IT'S A COUNTY CONVERSATION. AND SOMEHOW I THINK THE FOREST SERVICES INVOLVED IN THIS CONVERSATION TOO. 'CAUSE THEY'RE EVERYWHERE ELSE IN OUR BUSINESS, . UM, AND SO ALTHOUGH JEANNIE, I APPRECIATE, YOU KNOW, YOU BRINGING UP THE RENTAL ASSISTANCE, TO ME THAT LOOKS LIKE IT, IT STARTS TO TOUCH ON THE EPISODIC AND THE CHRONIC TYPOLOGIES. 60% IS THE TRANSITIONAL, I'M NOT SURE THAT'S THE BEST SPEND FOR THE LARGEST PART OF THE PROBLEM THAT WE SEE. SO, AND AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS, BUT THERE'S A, THERE'S A GROUP OF PEOPLE TOGETHER THAT CAN GIVE ME BETTER ADVICE ABOUT HOW AND WHERE TO SPEND DOLLAR ONE VERSUS, YOU KNOW, MUCH LESS DOLLAR A MILLION . I DON'T WANNA START BY TALKING ABOUT A MILLION DOLLARS, I REALLY DON'T. BUT I WOULD LIKE TO BE INFORMED BY THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ENGAGED IN THIS PROCESS. AND, AND AGAIN, QUOTING FROM YOU ABOUT CATHOLIC CHARITIES IN THE CES SYSTEM, HOW IT'S HERE, BUT ITS EFFECTIVENESS ON A LOCALIZED LEVEL FOR THE VERDE VALLEY IS NOT APPARENT. SO, YOU KNOW, WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT BEING HERE, BUT I BELIEVE WE'VE BEEN TOLD THAT IT'S REALLY NOT WORKING WELL IN A FUNCTIONAL LEVEL, AND WE HAVE TO START THAT AND HAVE THAT CONVERSATION BEFORE I'M WILLING TO SPEND MONEY. 'CAUSE I JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE TO THROW MONEY AT WITHOUT HAVING THAT CONVERSATION. SO, THANK YOU MAYOR. OKAY. KATHY, YOU DID OKAY. I, I HAVE NOTHING TO SAY. OKAY. WE HAVE, THE REASON I SAID A MILLION DOLLARS I WAS ROUNDING UP IS WE HAVE MONEY SITTING WAITING FOR US TO DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH IT FROM A O SO IT'S JUST UNDER A MILLION DOLLARS. SO WE CAN RETURN THE MONEY, WE CAN GIVE IT BACK TO THEM. GOOD. BUT WE HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION BY THE END OF THE YEAR. SO I DON'T THINK WE HAVE THE LUXURY OF ALL OF THE, THE MEETINGS AND INVOLVEMENT THAT, BUT WE CAN RETURN IT. WE CAN RETURN IT. YEAH. AND WE'LL NEVER GET, BUT WE NEED TO MAKE A DECISION. OKAY. UM, WHEN, WHEN DO WE NEED TO MAKE THAT? WHEN OF THE YEAR? THE END OF THIS YEAR? YEAH, I KNOW, BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT WHAT, WHAT MEETING DATE? WHERE WOULD THIS COME? DECEMBER 10TH IS THE NEXT MEETING. OKAY. WELL, MAYOR AND COUNCIL, I THINK, UM, EXCUSE ME. THIS IS THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY WE'VE HAD TO UNDERSTAND YOUR LEVEL OF INTEREST, UM, IN THESE TYPES OF PROGRAMS BASED ON THE NEEDS ASSESSMENTS, SINCE THIS IS THE FIRST TIME YOU'VE HAD A CHANCE TO TALK ABOUT IT. AND WE DID LET ADO KNOW THAT THE FIRST TIME WE WOULD HAVE ANY FEEDBACK FROM YOU ON, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU'RE AT TEMPERATURE WISE WITH THESE TYPES OF THINGS WAS TONIGHT. UM, SO WE CAN GET BACK TO THEM, LET THEM KNOW YOU'VE HAD THE MEETING, SHARE WITH THEM YOUR FEEDBACK, UM, THE INTEREST IN THE REGIONAL APPROACH. WE CAN TALK TO THEM ABOUT, OKAY, HERE'S WHAT WE KNOW AT THE MOMENT OF THE COUNCIL'S FEELINGS ABOUT THIS. [04:35:01] UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TIME ON DECEMBER 10TH. IT'S A REALLY FULL MEETING AGAIN. UM, SO WE COULD TALK TO THEM ABOUT WHAT IS THE HARD CUTOFF TO, TO HAVE AN ANSWER. UM, WE COMMITTED TO THEM THAT WE WOULD COME BACK AROUND AT THE STAFF LEVEL AFTER TONIGHT'S MEETING AND LET 'EM KNOW WHAT WE HAD HEARD FROM YOU ALL, UM, ABOUT THIS ASSESSMENT. SO STAY TUNED. WE'LL, WE'LL TRY TO GET A DATE FROM THEM. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, ANNETTE. SO, UM, I WANNA THANK, UH, BOTH MATT AND JOHN JONATHAN FOR COMING AND JEANNIE FOR PUTTING THIS ALL TOGETHER. IT WAS EYE-OPENING. UH, THE INFORMATION WAS VERY GOOD, BUT I DIDN'T REALLY HEAR YOU SAY MUCH ABOUT, IT'S NOT SO MUCH ENFORCEMENT, BUT THE HANDS-ON GENTLE APPROACH MAYBE FROM PD. AND I SEE THAT AS INTEGRAL. AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT $20,000 PER PERSON PER YEAR, OR HOWEVER WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO REDUCE THAT NUMBER WITH A BETTER, I DON'T WANNA SAY BETTER TRAINED BECAUSE I, I'VE SEEN OUR OFFICERS HANDLE SOME OF THESE, UH, PEOPLE AND THEY'RE REALLY TRAINED AND THEY DO IT QUITE WELL. BUT MAYBE TO HAVE, UH, ANOTHER OFFICER TO DO, TO REPLICATE WHAT HAPPENED IN COTTONWOOD, THEY HAVE A GREAT REPUTATION ON THE WAY THEY, THEY HANDLE IT FROM JUST TALKING. WHEN I DO TALK TO THE OTHER MAYORS ABOUT IT, THEY DO TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE COTTONWOOD APPROACH. SO I THINK THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE INTEGRAL FOR ME TO SEE INCLUDED. AND MAYBE WE CAN REDUCE THE NUMBERS IN SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER, UH, UH, DC CAN YOU JUST COME TAKE UP LECTER? I JUST WANNA ASK YOU IF YOU, IF YOU DON'T MIND. SO HOW ARE THE OTHER FOUR, UH, CITIES AND TOWNS AND THE COUNTY OR SORT OF ALL FIGURE ON THE DAYS WHAT THE COUNTY'S BEEN DOING, BUT I'M SURE SHERIFF RHODES WOULD WANNA BE DOING SOMETHING, UH, HERE IN THE VERDE VALLEY. DO YOU SEE WHEN THE PUBLIC SPOKE AND SAY, WELL, FORGET ABOUT, AND I'M PARAPHRASING, FORGET ABOUT THE REST OF THE VERDE VALLEY, JUST FOCUS ON SEDONA. WELL, THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK, BUT MAYBE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OTHER LIKE, UH, CLARKDALE IS DOING COT. WELL, WE KNOW WHAT COTTON WAS DOING. JEROME OR CAMP VERDE, ARE THEY DOING ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT COTTON WAS DOING? NO. SO MAYBE WE COULD ALL WORK TOGETHER. UH, ANNETTE AND I CAN WORK AT ONE OF THE UPCOMING MAYOR MAG'S MEETINGS AND BROACHED THE IDEA. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE RIGHT PLACE, BUT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, WE COULD HAVE THAT DISCUSSION ALONG WITH SOME OTHER DISCUSSIONS WE ARE TRYING TO HAVE. BUT, UH, IT NEEDS TO BE A BROADER APPROACH TO JUST SEDONA AND I CAN'T SEE US FUNDING PROJECTS IN THE COUNTY OR IN CLARKDALE OR CAMP VERDE. SO, UM, IT'S DISAPPOINTED THAT THEY'RE DOING NOTHING. SO LET ME SEE. MR. MAYOR, CAN I JUST ABSOLUTELY ADD ONE THING? UM, SO WE DID ADD TO YOUR SCHEDULE RECENTLY A WORK SESSION ON THE TOPIC JANUARY 14TH, YOUR WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON WORK SESSION'S GOING TO BE ABOUT THE, UM, SORT OF WHERE ARE WE GONNA GO FROM HERE AND IMPLEMENTATION STRATEGIES YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH. SO I THINK WE COULD AGENDIZE WITHIN THAT, YOU KNOW, SOME DIRECTION AROUND THE EIGHT OH, CORRECT. IS IT NOT JANUARY 14TH? SO, SO IT'S BEEN BUMPED TO THE 20, THE 29TH, EIGHTH, 29TH. OKAY. JANUARY 29TH, EXCUSE ME. JANUARY 29TH. SO THAT'LL BE YOUR NEXT OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS THIS TOPIC AND, UM, SPECIFICS. AND WE COULD TRY TO SEE IF THE CATHOLIC COMMUNITY SERVICES REPRESENTATIVE COULD BE HERE FOR THAT. MM-HMM. . UM, SO I JUST WANNA THROW THAT OUT AS ANOTHER, UM, TIMING INFORMATION THAT I DIDN'T INCLUDE IN MY FIRST COMMENT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. SO THAT, THAT HELPS ME. UH, I THINK HOPEFULLY IT HELPS IF WE COULD DO IT SOONER. I KNOW THE COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO DO IT SOONER, BUT IF IT CAN'T BE, IT CAN'T BE, UM, I WOULD JUST LIKE, YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. , UH, WHEN IT COMES TO BUDGET TIME, WE SHOULD BE DISCUSSING SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT THE DC UH, USED TO DO IN COTTONWOOD AND SEE IF THAT WOULD PENCIL OUT HERE. AND, UM, BECAUSE WE HAVE TO DO IT ALL TOGETHER. AND, UH, WHO, WHO HAD THE IDEA OF BRINGING IN CATHOLIC CHARITIES WITH O'BRIEN? I THOUGHT THAT WAS A, A GREAT IDEA ALSO, UH, TO SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT ARE THEY OFFERING FOR OUR, UH, COMMUNITY? [04:40:01] THEY DO FLAGSTAFF AND PRESCOTT. WELL, SEDONA, WE CAN DO JUST FOR YOU, BUT IF YOU GET THE OTHER MAYORS AND, UH, COUNCILS ON BOARD IN THE VERDE VALLEY, THAT WOULD BE FABULOUS. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW, BUT IT CAN'T BE JUST US. AND I THINK THAT IS EXACTLY THE TYPE OF THING YOU CAN TALK ABOUT AT THAT WORK SESSION. SHORT TERM, MEDIUM TERM, LONG TERM STRATEGIES, WHO'S IN ON WHICH PART? YOU KNOW, THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE COULD DO ON OUR OWN, THINGS THAT WE'LL NEED THE PARTNERS. I MEAN, WE CAN GO THROUGH ALL OF THAT. OKAY. SO HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE APPROACH THAT, UH, OUR DEPUTY CHIEF HAD IN HIS PRIOR, UH, POSITION? DO YOU SEE THAT WORKING WITH SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'VE DONE? ABSOLUTELY. UM, IN HOUSTON THERE'S A, A STRONG, UH, HOMELESS OUTREACH TEAM PRESENCE EMBEDDED IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. AND THEY WORK REALLY CLOSELY WITH THE COORDINATED ENTRY SYSTEM AND OPERATE, UH, AS COMPLIMENTS. THE, THERE IS A, UM, A DISTINCTION THOUGH, I THINK. I THINK HAVING THE HOMELESS SERVICES OFFICER EMBEDDED IN THE LAW ENFORCEMENT, UH, PROVIDES THE, THE STRUCTURE BOTH FOR, UH, WHAT, WHAT WAS DESCRIBED AS LIKE THE, THE ONGOINGS OF KIND OF THE COMMUNITY OF FOLKS EXPERIENCING CHRONIC HOMELESSNESS THAT HELPS MANAGE BEHAVIOR. UM, AND, AND YET, UM, YOU STILL NEED THE COMPLIMENT OF, UM, OF KIND OF RESOURCES THAT CAN MEET FOLKS WHERE THEY ARE AT AND DO THE CATHOLIC CHARITIES THING. NO, I GET THAT. YEAH. SO I THINK IT, IT, IT JUST GOES TOGETHER. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, KATHY, FOR FINAL AND THEN WE WANNA MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM. YEAH. TO TAKE A BREAK. YEAH, YEAH. WELL, TO, TO ADDING TO THE LIST OF, UH, UM, ORGANIZATIONS TO INVITE, YOU KNOW, THAT CONVERSATION. I WOULD WANNA MAKE ASK ALSO THAT THE VERDE VALLEY HOMELESS COALITION, BEYOND THAT LIST, AS WELL AS SAHA, I THINK THEY SHOULD BE ON. I THINK ALL OF THOSE, UH, ORGANIZATIONS SHOULD BE A PART OF THE CONVERSATION FOR WHATEVER THEY MAY OR MAY NOT PROVIDE OR BE ABLE TO PROVIDE, BUT THEY SHOULD BE A PART OF THE CONVERSATION. AND THE SECOND QUESTION AND LESS, IS THAT MOVING THAT CONVERSATION TO THE 29TH, IS THAT, UM, UNAVOIDABLE? CAN WE AND NOT HAPPEN SOONER? WELL, THE REASON IS THAT, UH, ROXANNE HOLLAND, OUR WASTEWATER DIRECTOR, NEEDS TO BRING HER FACILITY PLAN TO YOU, UM, FOR APPROVAL, UM, BASED ON OUR DEADLINES TO START MEETING NEW EPA AND DEQ REQUIREMENTS OUT AT THE PLANT. WE CAN CAN'T DO BOTH. SHE CAN'T DO THAT AT A REGULAR MEETING. UM, I THINK THERE'S, WELL, I CAN TALK TO HER ABOUT THAT. THERE'S PROBABLY A LOT TO TALK ABOUT IN THAT PLAN AND THE AMOUNT OF WORK THAT'S NEEDED TO BRING IT INTO COMPLIANCE WITH THE NEW PFAS REGULATIONS. UM, BUT I'LL ASK HER ABOUT THAT. OR HER FIRST REQUEST WAS TO DO IT AT A, AT A WORK SESSION. OKAY. UM, FIVE MINUTES. FIVE MINUTES. YEAH. WE'LL TAKE A QUICK FIVE MINUTE BREAK. THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN. THANK YOU. THANK YOU JEANNIE, FOR HANGING OUT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU. OUR PLEASURE. AND THEN WE'LL COME BACK FOR THE LAST ITEM. QUIET GUY. YOU WERE BUSY TALKING. OKAY. ITEM D, [8.c. AB 3095 Public Hearing/discussion/possible action regarding adoption of a Resolution and Ordinance updating the City of Sedona's Consolidated Fee Schedule.] AB 30 66. DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING, OH, I'M SORRY, I'M OFF. ITEM C, UH, AB 30 95 PUBLIC HEARING DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING ADOPTION, UH, OF A RESOLUTION IN ORDINANCE, UPDATING THE CITY OF SEDONAS CONSOLIDATED FEE SCHEDULE. THAT WOULD BE JOANNE. YEP. WOW. THANK YOU MAYOR, VICE MAYOR AND COUNCIL. UM, IT'S THAT TIME TO BRING THE CONSOLIDATED FEE SCHEDULE TO YOU FOR AN UPDATE. UM, WE DIDN'T HAVE TOO MANY CHANGES THIS YEAR. THE DEPARTMENTS THAT WE HAD, UH, WERE THE CITY CLERK'S DEPARTMENT, UH, AND PUBLIC WORKS. SORRY, THIS MOUSE ISN'T WORKING. UM, PUBLIC WORKS AND OF COURSE THE WASTEWATER FEES, WHICH, UM, ARE UPDATED AND BASED ON THE E AND R EVERY YEAR. SO I'LL JUST BRIEFLY GO OVER, UM, MY DEPARTMENT AND THEN, I'M SORRY, I'M HAVING TROUBLES WITH THIS COMPUTER AND FINDING MY, GETTING WHERE I NEED TO BE ON MY AGENDA BELL. ALRIGHT. [04:45:01] SO I KNOW THAT, UH, MARCY DID INCLUDE A MEMO IN THE PACKET FOR THE CITY CLERK'S DEPARTMENT AND THE CHANGES THAT, UH, WE WERE LOOKING TO MAKE REGARDING THE BUSINESS LICENSE FEE. UM, THERE WAS A NEW CATEGORY THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO ADD FOR, UM, THE BUSINESS LICENSE FOR THE SPECIAL EVENT BUSINESS LICENSE. UH, PEOPLE CAN RENEW OR CAN HAVE A, THEY PAY $10 FOR EVERY EVENT AND CURRENTLY IF THEY HAVE SEVEN EVENTS OR MORE, WE ALLOW THEM TO JUST DO THE REGULAR BUSINESS LICENSE. BUT THEN WE DON'T HAVE A WAY TO TRACK FOR OUR WORKLOAD INDICATORS AND SEPARATE THAT. SO THIS WOULD GIVE US THE ABILITY TO SEPARATE THAT AND ALSO IT WOULD JUST BE, UH, CLEAR WE CAN POST THAT SO THAT IT'S EASIER FOR THE APPLICANTS WHO ARE APPLYING FOR THOSE BUSINESSES TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THAT TYPE OF A LICENSE ANNUALLY. UH, AND THEN THE, ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT? OKAY. SEEING NONE. AND THEN, UH, FOR THE SHORT TERM RENTAL FEE, UM, WE ARE PROPOSING A 210 $10 FEE. THE RATIONALE THAT WE GAVE WAS THE BREAKOUT, THE COST FOR THE ENFORCEMENT PROGRAM. AND THOSE ARE THE ONLY THINGS THAT COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AND WE ADDED THAT COST THIS YEAR. SO WITH THAT COST FOR THAT DEPARTMENT AND THEIR STAFF'S TIME, THAT BASICALLY ALLOWS US TO INCREASE THE FEE TO $210. IT'S CURRENTLY 200. DID YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT? WE SEE NONE. THE DAYS CONTINUE PUBLIC WORKS. LET ME GO BACK TO THAT. PUBLIC WORKS HAD SOME MINOR UPDATES TO THE FEE SCHEDULE. UM, THEIR FEES WERE MORE, UH, VICTOR ESTRADA ADDED SOME FEES AND KURT YOU CAN KIND OF HELP ME OUT ON WHAT THOSE FEES WERE SPECIFICALLY. BUT THOSE FEES THAT HE ADDED FOR, THEY ADDED TRAFFIC CONTROL ASSISTANT AND UH, SOME OTHER FEES, THOSE HAVEN'T BEEN UPDATED IN SEVEN YEARS. AND THEN THE OTHER STAFF, WOW, UM, I THINK IT WAS HANUKAH THAT WAS WORKING ON THAT ITEM. SHE BASICALLY, UM, UPDATED THAT GRADING FEES. SHE BASICALLY WAS DOING IT TO CONSOLIDATE THE ITEMS, UM, AND MAKE IT MORE EASIER FOR THEM AND FOR PEOPLE TO CONSOLIDATE THOSE ITEMS. AND THEN SHE USED THE, UM, RATE INCREASE FROM THE 2.58% OF THE CONSTRUCTION COST INDEX IN THE ECONOMIC RESEARCH NETWORK FOR THOSE, UM, ADJUSTMENTS. AND I'LL LET KURT SPEAK TO THAT MORE IF HE'S GOT MORE INFORMATION FOR PUBLIC WORKS. I THINK YOU'RE DOING, I THINK YOU'RE DOING A GREAT JOB. OKAY. , I ALSO DIDN'T MENTION, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON THE PUBLIC WORKS TCA? RIGHT. SO THEY'RE INCREASING FROM $25 TO $35. IS THAT YES. THAT'S HOURLY. YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT. IT'S HOURLY. AND THAT'S JUST TO COVER ALL OF THE OTHER WHOLE INSPECT EXPENSES FOR THAT POSITION, FOR THAT HOURLY RATE. SO THAT'S NOT A WAGE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO, THEY'RE GET NOT GETTING AN INCREASE? NO, THEY GET PAID 20 BUCKS AN HOUR. SO WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU PENCIL IT ALL OUT WITH TAXES AND OR COMMITMENTS, IT'S ABOUT 35. SO THAT'S JUST MAKING US WHOLE. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY. AND BACK TO THE CITY CLERK'S DEPARTMENT, WE, THERE ARE STATUTORY REQUIREMENTS THAT WE CHARGE FOR BINGO. WE JUST HAVEN'T HAD BINGO ON THE CONSOLIDATED FEE SCHEDULE. AND WE'VE HAD A COUPLE, WE'VE HAD AN APPLICATION AND WE'VE HAD A COUPLE INQUIRIES, SO COOL. GOT IT ON THERE AT DUCK'S LODGE. I'M JUST CURIOUS. OH, I CAN'T REMEMBER RIGHT OFFHAND. OKAY. THAT'S, UH, WHO ELSE IT WAS. AND THEN THE WASTEWATER CAPACITY FEES, THESE ARE UPDATED EVERY YEAR CONSISTENTLY. AND UM, THOSE ADJUSTMENTS ARE BASED ON [04:50:01] THE ERN RATE AS WELL. THAT WAS 2.58%. SO THOSE ARE REFLECTED. OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS, ANY COMMENTS? JUST A COMMENT. I WAS SURPRISED TO SEE THE, UH, ERN RATE ONLY AT 2.58. I THINK THAT'S INTERESTING. I ALSO JUST WANTED TO COMMENT AND SAY THAT ANY QUESTION I HAD WAS ACTUALLY ALREADY ANSWERED IN THE PACKET. SO I WANNA THANK YOU FOR THE, THE, THE DETAIL THAT WENT INTO THIS. OKAY. THANK YOU. I CAN MAKE A MOTION IF YOU WANT, PLEASE. AND I, I JUST DID WANNA MENTION THAT THE, WE DO HAVE, THESE ARE, THIS IS JUST APPROVING CHANGES ONLY. UM, WE DO HAVE THE DIFF FEES ON THE FEE SCHEDULE, BUT YOU GUYS ARE WORKING ON A DIFFERENT PROCESS FOR THAT AND THAT'LL COME BACK FOR APPROVAL LATER. SO THIS APPROVAL, UM, THIS EVENING IS JUST FOR THESE CHANGES THAT HAVE BEEN POSTED IN, IN THE PACKET. THANK YOU MAYOR. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, PLEASE. I MOVE TO APPROVE RESOLUTION NUMBER 2024 DASH 35 35 CREATING A PUBLIC RECORD ENTITLED 2024 AMENDMENTS TO THE SEDONA CONSOLIDATED FEE SCHEDULE. SECONDED BY SECOND. OKAY, COUNCIL DUNN. OKAY, ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? HEARING NONE WILL UNANIMOUS. MAYOR, I'D ALSO LIKE TO MOVE TO ADOPT ORDINANCE NUMBER 2024 DASH 10 10, ADOPTING THE PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE CONSOLIDATED FEE SCHEDULE. SECOND. OKAY. ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. CAN I GET WHO SECONDED? THAT, WAS THAT YOU, MELISSA COUNCILLOR DUNN? YES. OKAY. WE WERE UNANIMOUS. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. OKAY, ITEM D, AB 30 66. DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS. ANYTHING? HEARING NONE. UH, THERE WILL BE NO MEETING [10. ADJOURNMENT] TOMORROW. I KNOW WE'RE ALL DISAPPOINTED TO HEAR THAT. SO THIS MEETING IS NOW ADJOURNED. HAPPY THANKSGIVING. THANKSGIVING. HAPPY THANKSGIVING. THANKSGIVING EVERYBODY GIVING. DON'T OVEREAT. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.