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THANK YOU.[1. CALL TO ORDER, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIENCE, ROLL CALL ]
HEY, HERE WE'RE, I'D LIKE TO CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER THE CITY OF SEDONA PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.IT'S MARCH 18TH, 2025 AT FOUR 30.
ALL RISE, PLEASE FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
I PLEDGE THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES.
TAKES YOU THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY.
[2. ANNOUNCEMENTS & SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY COMMISSIONERS & STAFF]
TWO, AGENDA ITEM ANNOUNCEMENTS AND SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF.I HAVE, UH, TWO INTERVIEWS, UH, FOR THE VACANCY.
THE, UH, VACANCY ON THE COMMISSION WILL BE HELD ON APRIL 1ST.
AND, UM, THE SECOND, UH, THING, I'M, I JUST WANTED TO MENTION, I WENT TO AN EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS MEETING THAT WAS CONDUCTED LAST WEEK AT ST.
ANDREW'S EPISCOPAL CHURCH AND YAVAPAI COUNTY WAS THERE.
COCONINO FIRE DISTRICT POLICE WERE REPRESENTED AND IT WAS AN EXCELLENT PROGRAM.
I JUST WANTED TO MENTION THAT THEY SAID THAT, UM, THERE WOULD BE A FOLLOW UP MEETING ON APRIL 2ND AT THE SEDONA PERFORMING ARTS CENTER, UH, UH, FROM FOUR TO SIX.
SO IT'S GOOD INFORMATION FOR ALL OF US AROUND FLOODS, FIRES, HOW, HOW TO PROTECT OUR HOMES, UH, WHAT KIND OF ITEMS WE SHOULD BE THINKING ABOUT TAKING WITH US AND HAVING READY AND KNOWING OUR ZONE IN THE COMMUNITY AND KNOWING WHAT THE RESOURCES ARE OUT THERE.
WE GOT A LOT OF DIFFERENT, UM, WEBSITE APPS THAT WE CAN, UH, SIGN UP FOR AS WELL.
SO I JUST RECOMMEND THAT TO YOU.
SO I DID WANT TO, UM, INTRODUCE YOU TO A COUPLE NEW EMPLOYEES.
WE HAVE FRANKIE, WHO'S OVER SITTING WITH DONNA.
SHE'S OUR NEW DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ASSISTANT.
UM, SHE'S BEEN HERE FOR A COUPLE WEEKS AND IS DOING GREAT.
UM, GETTING TRAINED ON, YOU KNOW, HELPING DONNA AS YOU MIGHT START SEEING SOME EMAILS FROM HER AS WELL.
UM, AND THEN WE HAVE GARY, WHO IS OVER HERE.
HE IS OUR NEW SENIOR PLANNER AND HE HAS BEEN HERE FOR ABOUT A WEEK LONGER THAN FRANKIE HAS AND
SO WE'RE JUST GETTING ALL OF OUR, OUR NEW EMPLOYEES INTEGRATED UP TO SPEED.
AND SO HOPEFULLY YOU'LL BE SEEING BOTH OF THEM AROUND A LITTLE BIT MORE, BUT I DID JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU KNEW ABOUT BOTH OF THEM.
WELCOME TO YOU BOTH CHAIR, IF I MIGHT.
I WANTED TO TAG ON TO, UM, YOUR DISCUSSION.
UH, NEXT MONDAY AND TUESDAY AT THE LIBRARY.
THERE WILL BE A DISCUSSION, UM, THAT IS BEING HELD BY OUR SUSTAINABILITY DEPARTMENT AND THE FIRE DISTRICT AND SOME OTHER ORGANIZATIONS, UH, IN REGARDS TO FIREWISE.
AND SO THAT WILL BE AT, UH, 11 O'CLOCK NEXT MONDAY AND AT FIVE O'CLOCK TUESDAY.
WHO, WHO'S PRESENTING? SO, UM, OUR SUSTAINABILITY DEPARTMENT, THEY'LL HAVE ONE OR TWO PEOPLE PRESENTING THERE.
UM, AMY, OUR AMERICORPS VISTA HAS BEEN, UH, HEADING THAT VENTURE UP AND I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHO IN THE FIRE DISTRICT IS PRESENTING.
THEY HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH, UM, F-M-A-M-A, UH, SO THEY MIGHT HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE THERE.
UM, RELATED TO ALL THIS, UH, CURBSIDE PICKUPS ARE GONNA BE STARTING IN A COUPLE WEEKS FOR YARD WASTE.
SO TAKE A LOOK AT THE EMAIL AND IT'S BY ZONES AND EVERYONE KNOWS THEIR ZONE, RIGHT? MM-HMM
UM, ALSO TOO, CAN YOU CLARIFY THE DATE WHEN THE FAIR HOUSING, UM, SEMINAR IS, IS THAT APRIL 4TH OR APRIL 2ND? DID THE LIBRARY, IT'S YOUR DEPARTMENT.
SORRY, JOE, IS THAT A CITY SPONSORED? YEP, IT IS.
AND IT'S CALLED A HOUSING WHAT? IT'S THE FAIR HOUSING SEMINAR WHERE THEY TALK ABOUT WHAT THE FAIR HOUSING LAWS ARE FOR DISABILITY, UM, ANIMALS, UH, YOU KNOW, SO PEOPLE UNDERSTAND NOT TO
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GET DISCRIMINATED AGAINST FOR RENTALS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.LET ME JUST GRAB THE SEDONA ROUNDUP REAL QUICK 'CAUSE IT'S IN THERE.
IT'S ON THE CITY CALENDAR ON APRIL 7TH.
FROM 1130 TO ONE AT THE PUB, AT THE LIBRARY.
ANY OTHER ANNOUNCEMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? EACH OF YOU SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST ONE
[3. APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES]
ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE, APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES.DECEMBER 17TH, 2024, REGULAR MEETING.
AND THE DECEMBER 17TH, 2024 SPECIAL, OH, EXCUSE ME, SITE VISIT.
I'LL, UH, CONSIDER THESE MINUTES APPROVED AND WE'LL CLOSE THAT ITEM AND MOVE ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR, PUBLIC FORUM.
THIS IS THE TIME FOR THE PUBLIC TO COMMENT ON MATTERS NOT LISTED ON THE AGENDA.
THE COMMISSION MAY NOT DISCUSS ITEMS THAT ARE NOT SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED ON THE AGENDA PURSUANT TO A RS SECTION 38 DASH 4 3 1 0.01 H.
ACTION TAKEN AS A RESULT OF PUBLIC COMMENT WILL BE LIMITED TO DIRECTING STAFF TO STUDY THE MATTER, RESPONDING TO CRITICISM OR SCHEDULING THE MATTER FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION AND DECISION AT A LATER DATE.
NO ONE SIGNED THE CARD TO SPEAK.
SO I WILL CLOSE THAT ITEM AND I'LL MOVE ON TO AGENDA
[5.a. Public hearing to review, take public testimony, discuss, and possibly take action regarding proposed revisions to the Sedona Land Development Code. The proposed revisions include regulations for constructing Private Sport Courts (such as pickleball, tennis, and basketball courts). ]
ITEM NUMBER FIVE.CONSIDERATION THE FOLLOWING ITEMS THROUGH PUBLIC HEARING PROCEDURES, A PUBLIC HEARING TO REVIEW, TAKE PUBLIC TESTIMONY, DISCUSS AND POSSIBLY TAKE ACTION.
REGARDING PROPOSED REVISIONS TO THE SEDONA LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
THE PROPOSED REVISIONS INCLUDE REGULATIONS FOR CONSTRUCTING PRIVATE SPORT COURTS, EXCUSE ME, SUCH AS PICKLEBALL, TENNIS AND BASKETBALL COURTS.
THIS IS CASE NUMBER PZ 25 DASH 0 0 1 LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND THE APPLICANT IS THE CITY OF SEDONA AND FOR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC, I JUST WANTED TO OUTLINE HOW THIS DISCUSSION WILL TAKE PLACE AND HOW WE'LL TAKE PUBLIC TESTIMONY.
UM, FIRST STAFF CARRIE MEYER WILL, UM, INTRODUCE THE ITEM AND THEN THE COMMISSION WILL HAVE, IF THEY HAVE QUESTIONS, WE'LL UM, ASK CARRIE TO RESPOND.
AND THEN, UH, WE'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.
AND IF YOU WISH TO SPEAK, YOU CAN DO SO AT THE PODIUM RIGHT HERE.
YOU HAVE A THREE MINUTE LIMIT AND THERE'S A TIMER ON THE WALL TO KEEP YOU HONEST.
THEN WE CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, COME BACK AND DISCUSS THE MATTER, INCLUDING COMMENTS MADE BY THE PUBLIC AND, UH, UH, CALL FOR, UH, A MOTION TO TAKE ACTION.
SO THAT'S WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.
IF YOU'RE, UM, THINKING YOU WANNA SPEAK, YOU WANNA ADDRESS THE COMMISSION WITH ANY OF YOUR CONCERNS.
THERE ARE CARDS THERE AT THE ENTRY TABLE THAT YOU'D FILL OUT.
AND, UH, GIVE TO DONNA POCKET OVER HERE.
DO YOU HAVE ANY, DONNA? OH, THERE, THEY'RE, OKAY.
ALRIGHT, WE'LL TURN IT OVER TO CARRIE.
UM, SO I DO NOT HAVE ANY KIND OF VISUAL PRESENTATION.
UM, SO THIS IS JUST THE, JUST SOME BACKGROUND AND OF WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING TONIGHT.
SO, IN THE FALL OF LAST YEAR, THERE WERE SOME CITIZENS WHO BECAME CONCERNED ABOUT THE POTENTIAL CONSTRUCTION OF PICKLEBALL COURTS AND OTHER COURTS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY AND THE EFFECTS THAT COULD HAVE ON NEIGHBORHOODS.
SO IN OCTOBER OF LAST YEAR, CITY COUNCIL HELD A WORK SESSION TO DISCUSS THE ITEM AT THAT WORK SESSION, THEY, UM, DECIDED BY MAJORITY CONSENSUS THAT THEY, UM, WERE DIRECTING STAFF TO MOVE FORWARD WITH PROPOSING LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CHANGES TO ADDRESS THE CONSTRUCTION OF PRIVATE SPORT COURTS.
AND SO WITH THAT DIRECTION, WE DID SOME RESEARCH INTO WHAT OTHER CITIES HAVE DONE AND WHAT MIGHT BE SOME POTENTIAL APPROPRIATE REGULATIONS FOR SEDONA.
AND SO THIS ITEM IS IN RESPONSE TO THAT DIRECTION THAT WE SEE RE THAT WE RECEIVED FROM CITY COUNCIL, UM, IN OCTOBER.
SO, UM, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENTS BEFORE YOU TONIGHT ARE, IS WHAT ARE WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING AND REGARDING THE CONSTRUCTION OF PRIVATE SPORT COURTS.
THESE AMENDMENTS WOULD ALLOW CONSTRUCTION AS AN ACCESSORY USE, BUT THEY WOULD ALSO ESTABLISH SETBACK REQUIREMENTS.
UM, PROVIDE A, A SMALL NUMBER OF CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH A SETBACK REDUCTION COULD BE APPROVED, WOULD PROHIBIT RENTALS OF THE COURTS SEPARATE FROM THE HOUSE, LIMIT EACH PROPERTY TO A SINGLE COURT, UM, OR EACH SINGLE FAMILY PROPERTY TO A SINGLE COURT AND PROHIBIT THE LIGHTING OF COURTS.
UM, WE DID RECEIVE SOME PUBLIC COMMENTS OVER THE WEEKEND, WHICH WERE EMAILED TO YOU THIS AFTERNOON.
AND SO IF YOU DIDN'T, HOPEFULLY GOT A CHANCE TO LOOK THROUGH SOME OF THOSE.
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AND SO THE COMMISSION IS BEING ASKED TONIGHT TO REVIEW THOSE AMENDMENTS AND PROVIDE A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL.AND WE'RE AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE.
THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY FOR NOW.
SO RIGHT NOW IT'S BASICALLY, IT JUST LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE'S POURING A CONCRETE PAD IN THE WORLD OF THE LDC, CORRECT? RIGHT.
AND THEN IF THEY ARE ALSO INSTALLING A FENCE AROUND THE COURT, WE HAVE FENCE HEIGHT REGULATIONS AND THAT SORT OF THING.
AND THE CURRENT SETBACKS FOR THE POURING OF THE CONCRETE ARE WHAT? THERE'S NONE.
SO IT COULD BE ON PROPERTY LINE? CORRECT.
UM, DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA OF HOW MANY PRIVATE SPORT COURTS EXIST? ESPECIALLY, I'M THINKING LIKE, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY THE BASIC HALF COURT TEENAGE BASKETBALL SITUATION.
SO WE DON'T HAVE A PERMIT FOR THEM.
AND SO WE DID HAVE SOME STAFF MEMBERS JUST GO LOOK THROUGH AERIALS OF THE CITY.
WE FOUND, I BELIEVE IT WAS FIVE TENNIS COURTS TO PICKLEBALL COURTS IN ONE BASKETBALL COURT.
AND HAVE THERE BEEN ANY CODE OR ANY NOISE COMPLAINTS FOR ANY OF THOSE COURTS? NO.
THAT WE KNOW OF? WELL, SO AGAIN, IT'S, IT WOULDN'T SEPARATE OUT AS A SPECIFIC RIGHT.
BUT IN TALKING WITH OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS, ONE OF WHOM HAS BEEN HERE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T REMEMBER ANYTHING SPECIFIC TO THOSE.
AND WE DID CHECK THE CODE ENFORCEMENT HISTORY ON THE LOTS WHERE WE IDENTIFIED A COURT AND DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING.
UM, THIS IS, I'M WONDERING ABOUT LOTS, THE 200 FOOT SETBACK MM-HMM
SO THAT WOULD ACTUALLY TAKE A TON OF HOUSE LOTS THAT WOULD EVEN BE ABLE TO, RIGHT.
YOU'D PROBABLY NEED, YOU KNOW, AND WOULD THAT BE MEASURED CENTER COURT OR AT THE EDGE OF THE, AT THE EDGE OF COURT.
SO IT'D BE A LITTLE MORE THAN 400 FEET BY 400 FEET IS KIND OF THE MINIMUM SIZE IF YOU WERE GONNA PUT A COURT IN THE MIDDLE, RIGHT? MM-HMM
I WAS GONNA ASK SOMEONE TO DO THE MATH
I WAS LIKE, IT FEELS REALLY BIG, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS.
SO IF IT BASICALLY IT MAKES, IF YOU HAVE A PROPERTY UNDER FOUR ACRES, THERE'S NO SPORT COURT, WHICH IS WHY WE INCLUDED THE POTENTIAL.
YOU COULD HAVE A BUILDING THAT WOULD COME BETWEEN THE COURT AND THE ADJACENT PROPERTY.
SO ON PAGE FIVE OF THE PACKET, UM, THERE ARE SOME CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR CAN CONSIDER REDUCING THAT SETBACK.
AND IT WOULD BE THINGS LIKE THEY'VE DONE THINGS TO MITIGATE THE NOISE.
THERE'S A, UM, THERE'S A BUILDING BETWEEN THE COURT AND THE PROPERTY LINE.
THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ADJACENT TO NATIONAL FOREST OR A PARK WHERE IT'S NOT A RESIDENTIAL HOUSE.
AND SO THERE'S SOME CONDITIONS THERE THAT THEY COULD APPLY FOR A REDUCTION OF THAT SETBACK.
BUT EVEN WITH A HOUSE BETWEEN THE LOT WOULD STILL HAVE TO BE MASSIVE BECAUSE THE HOUSE WOULD HAVE TO BE, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST, IT BASICALLY MAKES SPORTING THIS CODE WITHIN SOME DISCRETION OF THE DIRECTOR MAKES SPORTING COURTS BASICALLY A, YOU KNOW, RICHEST OF THE RICH PERK ONLY, WHICH IS AN INTERESTING FEELING I HAVE ABOUT THAT.
ESPECIALLY FOR, YOU KNOW, MY KID WANTS A HALF COURT BASKETBALL, I HAD A BASKETBALL HOOP ON MY DRIVEWAY, RIGHT ON MY GARAGE.
AND IF WE GET CODE ENFORCEMENT COMPLAINTS, IS THAT AS A KID, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? RIGHT.
I THAT'S NOT A, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT GARAGE DOOR.
SO WE SPECIFICALLY EXEMPTED DRIVEWAYS FROM THE DEFINITION OF A, OF A SPORT COURT.
SO IF IT'S A DRIVEWAY TO THE GARAGE AND WE PUT UP A BASKETBALL HOOP THAT I WOULD NOT QUALIFY UNDER THE DEFINITION AS A SUPPORT COURT.
IT JUST, IT FEELS LIKE A, A SCARY SLIPPERY SLOPE.
I UNDERSTAND THE NOISE CONCERN SPECIFICALLY AROUND PICKLEBALL.
I KNOW THAT'S WHAT A LOT OF OUR PUBLIC COMMENT IS ABOUT.
BUT IT FEELS A LITTLE NERVE WRACKING TO ME HAVING A KID IN THIS COMMUNITY WHERE I THINK THAT MY NEIGHBORS COULD POTENTIALLY COME AFTER ME FOR A BASKETBALL HOOP ON THE SIDE OF MY BUILDING, LIKE ON THE SIDE OF MY HOUSE OR WHATEVER, WHEREVER I JUST, OR IF IT'S ONE OF THOSE STANDALONE POLES THAT'S NOT ON MY DRIVEWAY, IT JUST, MY HOUSE IS A BAD EXAMPLE.
'CAUSE THERE'S NO SCENARIO WHERE ANY OF THAT WOULD WORK.
BUT I KNOW OF HOUSES
COULDN'T DO IT BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T BE IN YOUR DRIVEWAY.
I'M THINKING OF SOMEONE'S HOUSE WHO LIKE IT WOULD WORK WITH.
SO I CAN WRAP MY HEAD AROUND IT.
SO, SORRY, THOSE WERE COMMENTS AND NOT QUESTIONS.
NO, I'M GRAPPLING WITH THE, THE SIZE OF THE LOT AND THE RESTRICTIONS IT MAKES ON THE MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY WHO HAVE KIDS POTENTIALLY.
AND ANYONE WHO WANTS TO ENJOY SPORT.
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FAR AS NOISE, PICKLEBALL IS SO MUCH MORE EGREGIOUS THAN TENNIS OR BASKETBALL.BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ALL OF IT.
AND THAT'S, THAT COULD BE PROBLEMATIC ALONE.
I'M HAVING A HARD TIME WITH GRAPPLING WITH IT, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE MY CHILD AND I ARE AT THE, THE SPORTING AREAS A LOT AND THEY ARE FULL, FULL, FULL.
LIKE IF YOU AND YOUR CHILD WANTS TO GO USE POSSE TO PLAY PICKLEBALL, WHICH I WILL TELL YOU, MY 2-YEAR-OLD TAKES ME, MAKES ME GO TO VERY OFTEN, WE'RE NOT TAKING A COURT IF THEY'RE FULL, YOU KNOW MM-HMM
I'M HAVING, I'M HAVING A HARD TIME IF YOU GUYS CAN'T TELL MM-HMM
WITH WRAPPING MY BRAIN AROUND ONE, ADDING MORE COMPLICATED CODE TO LDC, WHICH IS ALREADY VERY COMPLICATED IN OUR LIVES.
AND TWO, THE POTENTIAL THAT ONLY THE RICHEST OF THE RICH CAN HAVE SPORT COURT COURTS FEELS WEIRD.
THAT WAS THE WRONG TIME TO, I'LL SAVE ANYTHING ELSE FOR LATER
THIS IS GONNA END UP, BUT I THINK IT'S THE RIGHT TIME TO ADDRESS IT BEFORE, UH, WE HAVE ANY MORE PROBLEMS THAN ARE ALREADY HAPPENING.
SO I'M HOPING THAT, UM, I CAN LEARN SOMETHING TONIGHT FROM, FROM BOTH PUBLIC COMMENT AND THEN, UH, WHAT WE'VE READ ALREADY AND WE'LL TAKE IT FROM THERE.
SO, UH, I'M, MAYBE I'M THE EXPERT.
WELL, YOU KNOW, THE SPORT, MAYBE I'M THE EXPERT HERE.
UH, UH, IF YOU WANNA PLAY AT POSSE GROUNDS, THE PICKLE BALLERS NORMALLY PLAY FROM NINE TO 11 TUESDAY, THURSDAYS AND SATURDAY MORNINGS.
SO THERE ARE LOTS OF OPPORTUNITIES WITH EIGHT COURTS PLUS THE OLD COURTS.
UM, WOULD THIS APPLY TO THE CITY? 'CAUSE IT'S CALLED PRIVATE.
IF THE CITY DECIDES TO PUT PUBLIC MORE PUBLIC PICKLEBALL COURTS IN, WOULD THEY BE SUBJECT TO THIS TO THE SAME RESTRICTIONS? THEY SHOULD BE.
CARRIE? UM, THIS IS RESIDENTIAL AREAS, SO YEAH.
SO IT IS ALLOWED AS AN ACCESSORY USE IN ALL, UM, ZONES.
THE, UM, IT, IT IS A LITTLE MORE RESTRICTIVE IN THE RESIDENTIAL ZONES.
SO THINGS LIKE THE LIMITATION OF ONE COURT ONLY APPLIES ON SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES.
IT WOULD NOT APPLY AT A CITY PARK.
UM, SO THE, THE SETBACKS WOULD, MAY WOULD HAVE TO, I DON'T KNOW IF MONIQUE OR STEVE WANTS TO WEIGH IN.
UM, BUT WE DO, THERE IS, UM, A SET, SO THIS IS FOR PRIVATE SPORT COURTS.
SO IF FOR COMMERCIAL USES AT LIKE A HOTEL OR SOMETHING, THERE ARE OUTDOOR RECREATION FACILITIES, WHICH IS WHAT IN GENERAL THE LIKE POSSE GROUND WOULD FALL UNDER.
AND SOME OF THE LARGE, SOME OF THE COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO GET APPROVED AS AN OUTDOOR RECREATION FACILITY RATHER THAN A PRIVATE COURT.
LET'S, UH, IF I COULD JUST FOLLOW UP ON YOUR, I DON'T QUESTION.
IF, LET'S JUST TAKE FOR EXAMPLE, THE RANGER STATION.
IT WAS DECIDED THAT PICKLE BAR BALL COURTS SHOULD BE CONSTRUCTED THERE.
TO WHAT STANDARDS WOULD THEY BE HELD? YEAH.
AND THAT'S, I GUESS COMMUNITY FACILITY ZONE, RIGHT? MM-HMM
SO I BELIEVE AND IT'S EMBEDDED IN A NEIGHBORHOOD.
IF YOU GET THE LDC CODE FOR WHAT? THE COMMERCIAL RECREATIONAL, I WANNA LOOK AT IT.
SO FOR INSTANCE, UH, LOS ABOGADOS, THEY HAVE FOUR PICKLEBALL COURTS AND OH, BY HAPPENSTANCE, IF THEY HAPPEN TO BE BORDERING AND THEY DON'T, BUT IF THEY HAVE TO BE BORDERING A SINGLE PHONE FAMILY, SINGLE FAMILY HOME AREA, YEAH.
HOW WOULD THAT BE CONTROLLED? MM-HMM
AND SAME THING COULD HAPPEN TO A NUMBER OF OTHER MM-HMM
WOULD THEY BE GRAND GRANDFATHERED IN? WELL, ANY EXISTING COURTS WOULD NOT FALL UNDER ANY NEW REGULATIONS.
YOU WANT ME TO GO ON OR ARE YOU STUDYING? YES, I, UH, IF YOU HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION, YOU CAN ASK IT.
I'M LOOKING ON SOMETHING RIGHT NOW.
SO, UM, LOOKING AT, UH, SOME BASIC NOISE STUDIES AND SO FORTH, UM, PICKLEBALL, THEY SAY AT THE POINT OF IMPACT, DECIBEL LEVELS ARE, UH, 85 MM-HMM
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AND THEY MEASURE IT AT A HUNDRED FOOT AT 65 DECIBELS MM-HMMSO I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WOULD FIT.
FOR INSTANCE, IF, YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T KNOW WHY WE HAVEN'T DONE A NOISE STUDY.
AN EXPERT THAT COULD SAY, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE PUTTING, PLAYING PICKLEBALL AND IT'S UH, 85 DECIBELS, YOUR CORD IS 30 FEET WIDE, YOU KNOW, SO IT DROPS A LITTLE BIT THERE, BUT HOW FAR CAN YOU REALLY MM-HMM
HEAR THIS AND BE IMPACTED BY THIS? AND IT MAY AND OKAY, 85 DECIBELS, UH, BUSY TRAFFIC IS 70 TO 85 DECIBELS, VACUUM CLEANER, 78 80 DECIBELS, UH, A NOISY RESTAURANT, 85 DECIBELS.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S UP THERE AT THAT NOISE LEVEL.
AND REMEMBER, DECIBELS ARE, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 70 AND 80 IS NOT 10 DECIBELS.
IT'S, IT'S NOT A STRAIGHT LINE LOG RHYTHMIC.
SO, UM, IF YOU LOOK AT A FEW DECIBELS, THAT, THAT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE.
AND OF COURSE IT'S THE REPETITIVENESS OF THE YES.
THAT ADDS TO THE, AND I'VE EVEN PLAYED WITH THE BALL MACHINE WHERE IT'S LIKE SOUP, WHACK, SOUP, WHACK.
SO YOU KNOW, IT, THAT'S ABSURD.
UM, GRANTED, WE'RE KIND OF SAYING THAT YOU'RE GONNA NEED AN ACRE OR TWO ACRES TO PUT IN SOMETHING LIKE THIS, WHICH, YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA BE PRETTY LIMITED.
EVEN THOUGH IF YOU HAVE A COUPLE ACRE LOT, UH, AND YOU'RE LIVING NEXT TO IT, YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT GONNA BE TOO HAPPY ABOUT IT.
EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE MONEY TO PUT IN LANDSCAPING AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA BE LIMITED TO, UH, VERY LARGE PARCELS.
AND, AND WELL NOT NECESSARILY BASED ON THE OTHER OPTION.
THE DISCRETION OF THE DIRECTOR.
IT COULD BE AS LITTLE AS 25 FEET OFF YOUR REAR PROPERTY LINE WITH EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES.
I, I SAW THE SAME THING THAT, THAT KIND OF SCARES ME WHEN I SEE DIRECTORS DISCUSSION GO FROM 200 TO YEAH.
I MEAN, THAT'S A NORMAL FOR A LOT OF RESIDENTIAL ZONING.
25 FOOT YARD, YARD SETBACK IS YOUR REAR YARD SETBACK.
I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE CONSTRUCTED.
LOOK, UM, LET ME ASK A GRANDFATHERING QUESTION.
SO IF SOMEBODY HAS A TENNIS COURT AND DECIDES THEY WANT TO STRIFE IT AND MAKE, UM, TWO PICKLEBALL OR ONE PICKLE MM-HMM
PICKLEBALL COURT, I KNOW YOU CAN ONLY HAVE ONE.
BUT ANYWAY, UM, ARE THEY GRANDFATHERED IN? 'CAUSE THE, IF THE COURT'S ALREADY THERE? YES.
UM, AND THIS IS NEW LANGUAGE FOR THE LDC.
WHY, JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, WHY DO WE NOT ASK FOR A PERMIT FOR A PATIO? WHY IS THAT NOT, DOESN'T THAT REQUIRE A PERMIT? SO IN GENERAL, THE BUILDING CODE REQUIRES YOU TO BE OVER 30 INCHES, 30 INCHES TO GET A PERMIT.
SO WE GENERALLY WILL DO ZONING REVIEW AS PART OF THE BUILDING PERMIT.
SO WE DON'T HAVE A SEPARATE ZONING PERMIT.
SO WHEN THINGS DON'T REQUIRE A BUILDING PERMIT, WE DON'T HAVE A PROCESS FOR THEM TO GO THROUGH ZONING REVIEW AND THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODES.
BUT, AND IF YOU HAD, IF YOU REQUIRED PEOPLE TO GET A PERMIT EVERY TIME THEY WANTED TO POUR A CONCRETE SLAB IN THEIR BACKYARD, NO ONE WOULD DO THAT ANYWAY.
WELL, I MEAN, WE REQUIRE A PERMIT FOR A FENCE.
I, I DON'T KNOW WHY WE WOULDN'T REQUIRE A PERMIT FOR A, AND I, I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE 30 INCH.
WHAT DO YOU, SO YOU HAVE TO BE LIKE A FENCE 30 INCHES OFF THE GROUND IS WHEN YOU START REQUIRING A BUILDING PERMIT.
SO ANYTHING BELOW THAT YOU'RE, THERE'S NO PERMIT REQUIRED.
UM, AND WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS, WHICH IS REALLY MORE OF GONNA BE IN THE COMMENT SECTION, IS THAT THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A PERMIT AND YOU DON'T HAVE A CUP, HOW DOES THE PUBLIC EVER OR THE CITY KNOW THAT THIS IS OCCURRING? UM, THERE'S REALLY NO PROCESS.
NO, UM, ACCESS TO THIS INFORMATION, WHICH I THINK IS A FLAW.
SO I'LL GET BACK TO THAT LATER.
UM, AND SO ARE YOU, YOU SAID YOU LOOKED AT SOME OTHER CITIES THAT HAVE, UM, CODES REGARDING SPORT COURTS.
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UM, I DON'T SEE IT IN YOUR PART EXCEPT I DO SEE THE KSB UH, HANDOUT YOU PROVIDED AND THEY HAVE SOME THINGS FROM OTHER CITIES.ARE YOU IN AGREEMENT WITH THOSE? I MEAN, DO YOU, IN AGREEMENT, MEANING DO YOU, DO YOU AGREE THAT THOSE ARE TRUE? THAT'S WHAT OTHER CITIES ARE REQUIRING? SO WHICH PORTIONS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? IT WAS, UM, PART OF WHAT YOU HANDED OUT OR SENT OUT EARLIER TODAY.
BUT WHAT THEY CALLED OUT SPECIFIC CITY CODE, KIND OF IN THE MIDDLE OF THE LETTER OF OTHER CITIES.
I THINK THEY PUT CITATIONS AT THE END.
BUT YEAH, SO I MEAN, WE REVIEWED A NUMBER OF THOSE AS WELL.
AND WHAT IS BEFORE YOU IN THE PACKET IS WHAT WE FELT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR SEDONA.
SO OBVIOUSLY WE DIDN'T GO WITH THE, YOU KNOW, 600 FOOT SETBACK THAT SOME OF THOSE, BECAUSE AGAIN, I THINK YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE ABOUT 35 ACRES
SO WE THOUGHT THAT WAS PROBABLY A LITTLE TOO LARGE.
UM, WE COULD HAVE ONE AT THE CULTURAL PARK.
SAW THE RANGE OF THINGS THAT THEY MM-HMM
AND SO WE KIND OF REQUIRE AND TOOK FROM VARIOUS, I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY A COUPLE OTHERS THAT WE FOUND, OTHER THAN THE ONES THAT THEY POINTED OUT.
BUT, UM, WHAT IS IN THE PACKET IS WHAT WE AGAIN, FELT THAT WOULD, WOULD POTENTIALLY ADDRESS THE CONCERNS THAT WERE BEING BROUGHT UP HERE.
YOU WANNA INTERRUPT? WHERE DOES THE, WELL, DID YOU FIND THE LDC FOR? YEAH, SO DECIBEL LEVEL.
I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T HEAR WHAT YOU SAID.
I JUST WANNA LOOK AT THE CODE FOR COMMERCIAL.
AND I ASKED HER IF SHE FOUND THE NUMBERS 'CAUSE I CAN'T FIND IT.
SO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, I HAD IT UP, UM, A, A CITY PARK WOULD FALL UNDER OUTDOOR RECREATION FACILITY.
WHICH DOES REQUIRE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
AND SO, SO THERE'S NO SET SETBACKS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? NO.
BUT YOU WOULD, IT WOULD BE REVIEWED THROUGH, THROUGH A CITY, LIKE A MASTER PLAN FOR WHAT ABOUT ABOUT A HOTEL? IS THAT, I COULDN'T FIND CODE THAT SPECIFICALLY CALLED OUT A SETBACK FOR A RECREATIONAL COURT FOR COMMERCIAL.
LIKE IT JUST FOUND, FOUND THAT IT'S AN, AN APPROPRIATE ACCESSORY USE IF IT'S AN, I WAS HOPING JUST FOR NUMBERS, IF IT'S AN ACCESSORY USE, THEN IT WOULD FALL UNDER THIS.
IF IT'S FOR THE GUESTS OF THE HOTEL, THAT WOULD ALSO BE CONSIDERED A PRIVATE SPORT COURT AND FALL UNDER THE, OH.
SO IT WOULD CHANGE, THIS CODE WOULD CHANGE THE WAY THAT HOTELS ALSO DO THIS MM-HMM
WHICH WOULD LIMIT THEM TO ONE SINGLE SPORT OF ONE SINGLE COURT.
SO THAT THE BASED ON LIMITATION OF ONE COURT IS ONLY FOR SINGLE FAMILY ZONED PROPERTIES.
THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION.
SO CURRENTLY THERE'S NO CODE THAT'S, THAT GIVES US SETBACKS AND THINGS FOR SPORT COURTS COMMERCIALLY.
BUT IF I'M READING THIS CORRECTLY, UM, UNDER PURPOSE, WE, WE DO SAY, UM, SHELBY FOR NON-COMMERCIAL PURPOSES, STRICTLY FOR THE CONVENIENCE AND PLEASURE OF THE OWNERS AND THEIR GUESTS ARE ON A COMMERCIALLY ZONED PROPERTY LIKE A HOTEL, UH, FOR USE BY THE USERS OF THE PRIMARY USE
SO THAT WOULD BE LIKE A HOTEL.
THEY CAN BUILD COURTS FOR THEIR GUESTS.
THEY SHOULD NOT BE BUILDING COURTS IN ORDER TO HOST A TOURNAMENT SEPARATE FROM THE GUESTS AT THE HOTEL.
BUT NEW CONSTRUCTION AT AN EXISTING HOTEL WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THIS? YES.
I JUST WANTED TO MENTION THAT IN, AS I WAS DOING SOME STUDY ON THIS, THAT THERE ARE CITIES THAT HAVE BANNED THEM COMPLETELY.
SO WE SHOULD KNOW THAT THAT'S THE APPROACH THEY'VE TAKEN.
I THINK WHEN THAT WAS BROUGHT UP, OUR LEGAL COUNSEL SAID THAT WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
REALLY? THAT'S, KURT SAID THAT WHEN WE FIRST STARTED TALKING ABOUT THIS, THAT BANNING THEM WASN'T AN OPTION.
'CAUSE THAT WAS MY RECOMMENDATION.
YEAH, THAT WAS, I, I DIDN'T HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS.
SO I GUESS WE'RE JUST STICKING, I DON'T KNOW, QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS.
UM, I THINK ANOTHER, IT SEEMS LIKE SAFETY CHECK, IF I UNDERSTAND IT CORRECTLY, IS SMALL LOTS WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO IT ANYWAY BECAUSE THEY WOULD BUST THE IMPERVIOUS AREA.
BECAUSE THESE ARE 22 BY 44, RIGHT? YEAH.
ANY, SO THAT, THAT IS A POSSIBILITY.
SO EVEN IF THEY CAME IN AND SAID, HEY, I'M MEETING THESE, YOU KNOW, I WANT A VARIANCE OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER WE CALL IT BASED ON THESE OTHER PARAMETERS, IF THEY STILL BUST THE IMPERIOUSNESS, THEY'RE OUT.
UM, AND THEN, LET'S SEE, ITEM FOUR, IT
[00:30:01]
SAYS THE PRESENCE OF BUILDINGS ON THE PROPERTY BETWEEN THE COURT AND THE PROPERTY LINE.SO WHAT IF IT'S LIKE PROPERTY LINE BUILDING, SPORT COURT IN THE BACKYARD, BUT THEN THERE'S A PROPERTY THAT BACKS UP TO THAT SO THERE'S NO BUILDING, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? LIKE CAN YOU SAY THAT AGAIN? SO YOU HAVE LIKE YOUR FRONT PROPERTY LINE, YOU'VE GOT YOUR BUILDING AND YOU'VE GOT YOUR COURT, BUT YOU HAVE A NEIGHBOR THAT'S BEHIND YOU OR ON THE SIDES.
YEAH, THERE'S TECHNICALLY PER THIS A BUILDING THAT'S BETWEEN THE PROPERTY LINE AND THE COURT FROM THE FRONT.
BUT NOT FROM LIKE THE BACK AND THE SIDES.
SO THEN WE WOULD CONSIDER A REDUCTION AT THE, FOR THE, WHERE THERE IS A BUILDING BETWEEN THE COURT.
BUT IF THERE'S NO BUILDING BETWEEN THE COURT AND THE PROPERTY LINE, THEY WANT TO REDUCE THE SETBACK TO.
UM, 'CAUSE IT SAYS THE PRESENCE OF BUILDINGS ON THE PROPERTY BETWEEN THE COURT AND THE PROPERTY LINE.
THAT JUST SOUNDS LIKE THAT COULD BE A LOOPHOLE ONE FOR ME.
I THINK THE LANGUAGE A LITTLE BIT, WE COULD CLARIFY THAT.
'CAUSE THE PROPERTY OWNER COULD SAY, I'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, A BUILDING BETWEEN MY FRONT PROPERTY LINE AND MY COURT, BUT THEN EVERYBODY AROUND IT WOULD BE STILL AFFECTED.
COMMENTS? JUST QUESTIONS, RIGHT? QUESTIONS? YEAH.
I FELL DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE ON PICKLEBALL COURTS.
THERE'S A LOT TO BE SAID ABOUT 'EM APPARENTLY.
AND IF THERE ARE NO, HOW ARE WE GONNA, ARE WE JUST GONNA USE CODE ENFORCEMENT FOR NOISE COMPLAINTS IF IT WERE APPROVED? YEAH.
AND THAT'S HOW WE WOULD DO IT TODAY? YEAH.
THERE'S NOTHING IN THE, WE CAN'T DO NOISE ENFORCEMENT THROUGH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
SO I WANTED TO, UM, UH, REITERATE WHAT I THOUGHT I HEARD.
THERE'VE BEEN NO, UH, COMPLAINTS.
THERE HAVE BEEN NO NEW COURTS TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE.
LIKE I SAID, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DON'T HAVE A PERMIT PROCESS FOR THEM RIGHT NOW, SO I, WE DON'T KNOW MM-HMM
IF THINGS ARE BEING BILLED MM-HMM
BUT FROM THE ONES THAT WE'RE ABLE TO FIND BY LOOKING THROUGH AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHY AND THEN CROSS-CHECKING CODE ENFORCEMENT COMPLAINTS FOR THOSE PROPERTIES, WE DO NOT HAVE ANY NOISE COMPLAINTS.
AND LASTLY, AT LEAST ONE NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, WAS CONCERNED ABOUT A COURT THAT WAS CONSTRUCTED IN THAT AREA IN THE SKY MOUNTAIN AREA.
MY UNDERSTANDING, AND I BELIEVE THAT I WAS, THOSE PEOPLE MIGHT BE HERE TO SPEAK TONIGHT AS TO WHAT THE HISTORY OF THAT IS, BUT NOT, BUT THERE WAS A COURT CONSTRUCTED THERE.
I'M NOT SURE IF THERE IS A COURT CONSTRUCTED THERE OR NOT.
I MIGHT HAVE JUST READ THAT INTO THE INFORMATION.
WELL, I, I TRIED TO DO MY HOMEWORK TOO.
SARAH AND I WENT UP TO THE POSSE GROUNDS THIS MORNING AROUND 11, 11 30 THINKING IT MIGHT BE WARM ENOUGH THAT PEOPLE WOULD BE PLAYING.
CALLS ARE LIKE, SO THERE WAS ONE PERSON THERE AND HE WAS JUST HITTING AGAINST THE BACKBOARD.
BUT I WANTED TO GET A FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE ON THE NOISE.
AND SPEAKING OF NOISE ON PAGE FIVE, UM, I WANTED, UH, LET'S SEE WHAT SAID APPLICABLE NOISE REGULATIONS.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN UNDER 3.4 DA? SO CHAPTER 8.25 OF THE SEDONA CITY CODE, UM, IS OUR NOISE REGULATIONS.
AND SO THAT'S A SPECIFIC DECIBEL LEVEL.
OH, 8.25 IS A SECTION OF THE CITY CODE.
WHERE, UM, LET ME SEE IF I CAN FIND WHERE IT IS.
ITEM DD NOISE USE OF PRIVATE COURT IN SPORTS COURTS SHALL COMPLY WITH APPLICABLE NOISE REGULATIONS.
WHAT ARE THOSE NOISE REGULATIONS? SO DOES IT, IS IT A SPECIFIC DECIBEL LEVEL IN A CERTAIN ZONE OR ALL ZONES? SO IT VARIES BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL, AND INDUSTRIAL.
AND IT VARIES BASED ON THE TIME OF DAY.
AND SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IN RESIDENTIAL AREAS, IT'S 50 DECIBELS FROM 10:00 PM TO 7:00 AM AND 60 DECIBELS FROM 7:00 AM TO 10:00 PM UM, COMMERCIAL IS 65 DECIBELS AT ALL TIMES.
AND INDUSTRIAL AREAS IS 65 OVERNIGHT AND 70 DURING THE DAY.
UM, BUT THEN THERE'S ALSO LOOKING THROUGH THIS SOME ADDITIONAL, THERE'S A SECTION ON UNNECESSARY NOISE IN RESIDENTIAL AREAS THAT ALLOW EVEN IF, BECAUSE OFTENTIMES TO GET TO THE DECIBEL LEVEL, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A STEADY NOISE SOURCE.
AND OFTENTIMES THEN YOU DON'T, FOR SOMETHING LIKE A PICKLEBALL COURT, IT'S NOT A STEADY NOISE
[00:35:01]
SOURCE, SO YOU CAN'T GET A DECIBEL READING.SO WE DO HAVE A, A SECTION IN THE NOISE ORDINANCE.
UM, JUST MAKE SURE I'M GONNA READ THE RIGHT SECTION HERE.
IT'S KIND OF ABOUT OFFENSIVENESS.
SO NOTWITHSTANDING OTHER PROVISION, UM, IT SHALL BE UNLAWFUL FOR, IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA FOR ANY PERSON WITHOUT JUSTIFICATION TO MAKE OR CONTINUE OR CAUSE OR PERMIT OR BE MADE OR CONTINUED ANY UNNECESSARY OFFENSIVE OR EXCESSIVE NOISE, WHICH DISTURBS THEM PEACE AND QUIET OF A NEIGHBORHOOD OR WHICH CAUSES DISCOMFORT OR ANNOYANCE TO ANY REASONABLE PERSON RESIDING IN THE AREA.
SO IT IS, WE, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CITY COUNCIL ASKED US TO DO AS PART OF LOOKING AT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CHANGES, WAS TO ALSO LOOK AT THE NOISE ORDINANCE AND SEE IF THERE WAS ANY CHANGES THAT WERE NEEDED AND WE'RE NOT MM-HMM
YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY CITY CODE AND NOISE REGULATIONS DON'T COME TO THE COMMISSION, BUT WE ARE NOT ANTICIPATING, AT LEAST AT THIS POINT, PROPOSING ANY CHANGES TO THE NOISE ORDINANCE.
WE DO THINK THAT WHAT WE HAVE WOULD COVER THE CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN MM-HMM
WELL, IT SEEMED LIKE PROXIMITY AND NOISE ARE THE, THE TWO MAJOR ISSUES.
BUT BY DEFINITION, THE SITE ON WHICH A, A COURT CAN BE CONSTRUCTED IS SO LARGE THAT IT, IT MOOTS THE ISSUE OF NOISE.
IS THAT CORRECT? IT, IT MAY OR MAY NOT.
AND I'M SORRY TO JUMP IN HERE.
UH, IT MAY OR MAY NOT, BUT WE, WE ALWAYS DO HAVE THE NOISE ORDINANCE TO FALL BACK ON.
I ALSO WANTED TO KIND OF, UH, UH, CLARIFY, UH, KERRY HAD READ THE DIFFERENT, UH, NOISE STANDARDS FOR THE DIFFERENT, UH, AREAS, RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL MM-HMM
WHEN WE TAKE THOSE READINGS, WE USE THE AREA IN WHICH THE COMPLAINT WAS TAKEN FROM.
SO IF IT IS A COMMERCIAL AREA MM-HMM.
BUT WE'RE TAKING THE READING IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA, WE USE THOSE RESIDENTIAL DECIBELS, NOT, AND IT WOULD BE THE POINT OF THE COMPLAINT, NOT THE SOURCE OF THE NOISE.
A QUESTION, WELL, ON THE DOCUMENT, IT'S TALKING ABOUT SETBACKS MM-HMM
AND IT SAYS THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO, UM, IF, IF YOU DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT BIG A SETBACK, BUT IT CLEARLY STATES THAT IT HAS TO BE 50 DECIBELS OR LESS.
SO, SO ARE WE TALKING THAT IT'S GOTTA BE 50 DECIBELS OR LESS NO MATTER WHAT? THAT'S, IF YOU'RE ASKING TO REDUCE THE SETBACK, YOU'D NEED TO SHOW THAT HOW, HOW YOU ARE DOING, STILL MEETING THAT CRITERIA, DOING THINGS TO LESSEN THE SOUND.
BECAUSE YOU'RE ASKING FOR THE COURT TO BE CLOSER TO A PROPERTY.
BUT THEN IF IT'S NOT CLOSER AND YOU HAVE MORE PROPERTY, BUT YOU'RE MAKING 65 DECIBELS AT YOUR PROPERTY LINE OR, OR YOUR NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY LINE, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE 65 DECIBELS.
BUT IF YOU GET SOMETHING ELSE, YOU CAN ONLY HAVE 50 DECIBELS.
ISN'T THERE SOME LIKE FIRM STANDARD HERE, THE SOUND CODE IS NOT 65 IN RESIDENTIAL IT'S 50.
SO YOU CAN HAVE 50 DECIBELS IN RESIDENTIAL PERIOD OVERNIGHT, AND THEN 60 DURING THE DAY.
BUT THIS SAYS 50 NOT DURING NIGHT OR DAY.
SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO SHOW IF YOU WERE GOING TO WANTING A COURT, THE WAIT, THIS IS CURRENTLY WRITTEN, IF YOU WERE WANTING TO BUILD A COURT CLOSER THAN 200 FEET TO YOUR PROPERTY LINE, YOU WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE SOUND MITIGATION TO LESSEN THE SOUND COMING FROM THE PICKLEBALL COURT SO THAT IT BREACHES A LOWER DECIBEL AT THE PROPERTY LINE.
AND THAT, SO AGAIN, THAT'S A TOUGHER STANDARD YES.
TO MEET NOT 60 OR 65, BUT 50 MM-HMM.
CAN I ASK A NON SOUND QUESTION? A NON WHAT? SOUND RELATED QUESTION.
UH, TALK TO ME ABOUT THE PER TELL ME, REMIND ME OF THE CODE ABOUT IMPERVIOUS PAVEMENT PERCENTAGE, WHAT SARAH MENTIONED, BUT WHAT DOES THE ACTUAL CODE STATE? 64.
SO IT DEPENDS ON THE ZONING DISTRICT.
FOR THE EASE OF MY BRAIN, I THINK IT'S 60 40.
LAR PROPERTIES THAT ARE ALLOWED TO BE LARGER CO CAN COVER LESS PERCENTAGE OF THEIR LOT.
UM, BUT YEAH, SIX, FOR THE MAJORITY OF PROPERTIES, THE MAJORITY OF SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES ARE ZONED.
THE 10,000 SQUARE FOOT MINIMUM LOT SIZE RSS 10 IS THE MOST COMMON ZONE.
THAT IS 40% BUILDING COVERAGE, 60% TOTAL COVERAGE.
SO IN A HYPOTHETICAL WORLD WHERE WE KNEW THESE WERE GONNA, THESE COULD BE CONSTRUCTED WITH NO, IN CURRENT CODE IN THIS HYPOTHETICAL WORLD WHERE SOMEONE IS LIKE, I'M GONNA BUILD A PICKLEBALL COURT ON MY PROPERTY.
BUT WE DO ACTUALLY HAVE A WAY OF SAYING, NO, YOU CAN'T BECAUSE TODAY, YEAH.
IF THEY WERE GOING TO BE GOING, IF EVEN IF
[00:40:01]
IT WAS A BRAND NEW HOUSE AND YOU SAW A SPORTS COURT, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY NOT WHAT'S HAPPENING.SO THERE'S ALREADY SOME CODE TO HYPOTHETICALLY DISSUADED.
IT'S JUST WE DON'T HAVE ANY WAY OF CATCHING.
AND SO IT WOULD EITHER COME UP ON A, LIKE A BUILDING PERMIT IF THEY'RE BUILDING A HOUSE AND GONNA BUILD THE COURT AT THE SAME TIME.
IF THEY CALLED AN, SO YEAH, WE HAVE SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE, YOU CAN'T COVER MORE THAN 60% OF YOUR LOTS IF YOU'RE GONNA WANT TO BUILD SOMETHING.
WHAT IS LOT COVERAGE? IF THERE WAS A COMPLAINT, IF THERE WAS A COMPLAINT AND IT, THAT'S WHAT BROKE, YOU COULD SAY LIKE, YOU'RE, THIS IS NOT A PER, THIS IS NOT A LEGAL USE BECAUSE OF YOUR LOCK COVERAGE.
I COULDN'T REMEMBER THE PERCENTAGES.
AND THAT'S WHY, BECAUSE THEY AREN'T, THEY'RE NOT CONSISTENT.
BUT YEAH, FOR THE MAJORITY OF LOTS, IT'D BE 40% BUILDING, 60% TOTAL.
I'M GONNA OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING NOW, AND, UM, I HAVE THREE CARDS.
UH, I'LL JUST START IN THE ORDER IN WHICH, UM, I HAVE THEM.
THE FIRST PERSON IS, UH, ROBERT PKE, PKE
PULL THAT MIC DOWN, IF YOU WILL, AND IF YOU'LL STATE YOUR NAME AND PLACE.
I'M ALSO ON THE TOURISM ADVISORY BOARD.
SO, UM, THANK YOU CHAIRMAN AND COMMISSIONERS FOR, UH, TAKING TIME TO LISTEN TO US.
UM, THE HISTORY OF THIS IS A SHORT TERM RENTAL INVESTOR BOUGHT A PROPERTY A LARGE LOT ABOUT THREE QUAR, UH, ABOUT SIX TENTHS OF AN ACRE, A LITTLE BIT MORE.
AND ABOUT FIVE FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE OF ONE OF MY NEIGHBORS, HE STARTED TO INSTALL A PICKLEBALL COURT.
AND THE REASON HE DID IT WAS KACHING.
HE FIGURED HE COULD GET A COUPLE HUNDRED BUCKS A MONTH FOR HIS SHORT TERM RENTAL BY PUTTING IN A PICKLEBALL COURT.
AND IT WAS LITERALLY IN THE BACKYARD OF MY NEIGHBOR.
SO THAT'S WHAT TRIGGERED THIS PICKLEBALL.
COURTS ARE NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN STOP AFTER THE FACT.
YOU KNOW, ONCE THEY'RE BUILT, THEY'RE THERE.
AND SO YOU WILL FOREVER HAVE LAWSUITS.
YOU WILL FOREVER HAVE CITY PERSONNEL COMING OUT TO VISIT FOR NOISE COMPLAINTS.
THIS IS ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE THE ONLY SOLUTION IS A PREEMPTIVE SOLUTION.
WE'VE GOTTA STOP IT BEFORE IT HAPPENS.
WE'VE GOT, WHAT, 1200 OR 1500 SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN THE CITY, 17% OF THE HOUSING.
HOW MANY OF THOSE INVESTORS SAY IT'S ONLY 10% OF 'EM DECIDE THAT THEY'RE GONNA MAKE AN EXTRA BUCK BY PUTTING IN A PICKLEBALL COURT? THINK OF THE CHAOS.
THINK OF THE LOSS OF NEIGHBORHOOD OF, OF THE, YOU KNOW, JUST THE ANNOYANCE TO EVERYONE.
I MEAN, IT'S BAD ENOUGH HAVING IN YOUR SHORT TERM RENTAL, AND NOW YOU'RE GONNA HAVE PING, PING, PING, YOU KNOW, FOR HOURS EVERY DAY.
SO THAT, THAT'S WHAT TRIGGERED THIS.
NOW WE POSTED, UM, A CHANGE.ORG PETITION AND WE HAD OVER 475 PEOPLE SIGN THAT FROM THE SEDONA AREA.
THAT'S A HUGE CHUNK OF OUR POPULATION WHO IS IN FAVOR OF THIS REGULATION.
SO I WANT YOU TO THINK ABOUT THAT, YOU KNOW, AS YOU DELIBERATE.
UM, THE REALITY IS WE ORIGINALLY JUST WANTED TO MAKE THIS FOR PICKLEBALL COURTS, AND IT WAS THE CITY.
AND WHILE INVESTIGATING HOW OTHER MUNICIPALITIES HAVE ADDRESSED THE ISSUE, MADE IT A LITTLE BIT BROADER.
BUT THIS IS NOT THE BACKYARD BASKETBALL COURT OR THE ONE IN YOUR DRIVEWAY.
UH, THIS IS SOMEBODY BUILDING A BASKETBALL COURT THAT'S GONNA BE USED A COUPLE HOURS A DAY, UH, BY A SHORT TERM RENTAL INVESTOR.
SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.
THIS IS ABOUT PROTECTING WHAT NEIGHBORHOOD FEEL WE CURRENTLY HAVE AND MAINTAINING THE, THE SENSE OF CAMARADERIE AND, AND, UH, GOOD FELLOWSHIP IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS.
SO WITH THAT, I, I HOPE THAT YOU ALL AGREE THAT THIS IS A NECESSARY REGULATION.
IT'S NOT OVERSTEPPING ANYTHING, IT'S PREVENTING A PROBLEM BEFORE IT BECOMES A PROBLEM.
NEXT PERSON IS, UH, BECKY HOFFER.
DROP THAT MIC DOWN A LITTLE BIT, LITTLE BIT MORE.
MY NAME IS BECKY HOFER AND I AM THAT HOMEOWNER.
MY SISTER AND I OWN A PROPERTY IN THE, UH, CHAPEL AREA ON WIND MERE COURT.
AND OUR NEW NEIGHBOR INTENDS TO BUILD A PICKLEBALL
[00:45:01]
COURT ON OUR PROPERTY LINE.AND JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT LOGGING ANY COMPLAINTS ON IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S NOT A PROBLEM.
I WOULD URGE ALL OF YOU TO TAKE OUT YOUR CELL PHONE AND DO A CER A GOOGLE SEARCH ON PICKLEBALL LAWSUITS, AND YOU WILL FIND HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF LAWSUITS FROM ACROSS THE COMPANY OR COUNTRY.
WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET AHEAD OF IT HERE SO THAT IT DOESN'T BECOME A PROBLEM LIKE IT HAS FOR SO MANY OTHER CITIES.
SO TO ME, PICKLEBALL IS A BIG DEAL.
UM, ACCORDING TO PICKLEBALL SCIENCE.ORG, THE SOUND AT THE PADDLE IS 110 TO 130 DECIBELS.
AND, UH, THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S A HARD BALL HITTING A HARD PADDLE.
SO THE NOISE LEVELS, EVEN FROM 10 FEET OR A HUNDRED FEET AWAY, ARE ALREADY SURPASSED THE NOISE ORDINANCE THAT'S ALLOWED HERE IN SEDONA.
SO, YOU KNOW, I APPLAUD LOOKING AT THE NOISE LEVELS FOR SEDONA BECAUSE WE'RE ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE HIGHER THAN OTHER, UM, RESORT AREAS.
SO NOT ONLY IS PICKLEBALL LOUD, IT'S ESPECIALLY HARMFUL BECAUSE OF THE HIGH PITCH OF THE FREQUENCY.
YOU GUYS KNOW THAT IT'S IMPULSIVE NOISE.
IT CAUSES STRESS, FATIGUE, ANXIETY, AND DISEASE, NOT ONLY IN PEOPLE, BUT IN YOUR PETS IN THE WILDLIFE TOO.
SO THE NOISE GENERATED BECOMES AN ISSUE WHEN THE COURTS ARE TOO CLOSE TO THE NEARBY HOMES.
UH, IN MY OPINION, PICKLEBALL COURTS BELONG IN PARKS SURROUNDED BY DISTANCE AND GREEN GRASS AND TREES AND THINGS THAT ARE GONNA ABSORB ALL OF THAT NOISE.
SO TODAY, THERE ARE NO LIMITATIONS OF THE LAND USE CODE FOR PICKLEBALL COURTS.
OUR ASK IS THAT THIS CITY LEADERSHIP CONSIDER SIX REQUESTS FOR RESTRICTING THESE LAND USE, UH, FOR THE COURTS.
SO THE FIRST THING IS, UM, LIMIT THE PICKLEBALL COURT LOCATIONS.
THE RESEARCH I'VE DONE, MOST OF THE RESORT COMMUNITIES CHOOSE 600 FEET SETBACKS, WHICH IS A LOT LESS THAN WHAT I'VE HEARD YOU DISCUSS, AND THAT'S A LITTLE DISCONCERTING TO BE.
UM, THE SECOND THING WE WOULD ASK YOU TO DO IS REQUIRE THE OWNERS TO CONDUCT AN ENGINEERING SOUND ASSESSMENT.
SIMPLE THING, IT'S A COUPLE OF THOUSAND DOLLARS, BUT THAT WILL MAKE SURE THAT NOISE PROBLEMS DON'T OCCUR ON DOWN THE ROAD.
THE THIRD THING IS WE SHOULD BE REQUIRING PERMITS WITH PLANS, PICKLEBALL, COURTS, OR STRUCTURES.
UH, THE ONE BEHIND MY HOUSE IS ELEVATED.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA HAVE IF THEY FINISH IT, AND HOPEFULLY WE'VE GOT THEM TO STOP, BUT IF THEY FINISH IT, IT'S GONNA HAVE LIGHTS AND FENCES.
ALL THIS STUFF NEEDS TO BE REGULATED AND IT'S GONNA BE SHINING RIGHT DOWN INTO MY BACKYARD.
YOU SURE? UH, WE NEED TO, THE FOURTH THING IS YOU NEED TO CONSIDER DRAINAGE REVIEWS BECAUSE IT COULD CAUSE EROSION AND FLOODING IN MY BACKYARD.
YOU SHOULD CONSIDER DESIGN SPECS BECAUSE IF THEY PUT UP HIGH FENCES, SOME PEOPLE PUT MATTRESSES ON THEIR FENCES TO ABSORB THE SOUND.
I HAVE A BEAUTIFUL VIEW OF CATHEDRAL ROCK, LET ME TELL YOU.
I DON'T WANNA BE LOOKING AT A STEARNS AND FOSTER IN FRONT OF MY BEAUTIFUL CATHEDRAL ROCK VIEW.
AND LASTLY, DON'T LEAVE THE GOVERNANCE OF THIS TO THE HOAS BECAUSE NOT ALL COMMUNITIES HAVE HOAS AND WE NEED TO GET AHEAD OF THIS NOW.
UH, OUR NEXT SPEAKER AND LAST ONE IS JIM BLAIR.
BRING THAT MICROPHONE UP WITH YOU.
UH, THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS YOU.
SOME OF WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY HAS BEEN DUPLICATED, AND YOU PROBABLY HAVE SEEN IT IN SOME OF THE WRITE-UPS, BUT ONE OF THE, UH, THINGS THAT I'M REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT IS PROPERTY VALUES.
UH, ACROSS THE UNITED STATES, HOMES ARE, UH, ADJACENT TO PICKLEBALL.
COURTS SUFFER PROPERTY VALUE RESALE DECLINES OF 10 TO 20%.
AND IT'S DUE TO THE NOISE AND IT'S DUE TO THE TRAFFIC.
UM, WITH EVER INCREASING NUMBER OF COMMUNITIES SUBJECT TO VACATION, RENTAL OF REPLACEMENTS OF LONG-TERM NEIGHBORS OF, UH, AMBIENT NOISE LEVELS ARE BECOMING INTOLERABLE.
WE ALREADY ENDURE SHORT TERM, UM, VACATIONERS PARTIES, LOUD CELL PHONE CONVERSATIONS ON DECKS AND ASSOCIATED TRAFFIC TO ADD BACKYARD PICKLEBALL.
UH, STR TOURNAMENTS WOULD MAKE NOISE LEVELS SIMPLY UNBEARABLE FOR HOURS AT A TIME.
WE ARE, UH, WE AS A COMMUNITY SHOULD, UH, BE DRIVING BOTH RESIDENTS AND STR VISITORS TO UTILIZE THE 22 PICKLEBALL COURTS IN THE SEDONA AREA.
UM, ESPECIALLY THOSE IN THE POSSE GROUNDS, WHICH WE'VE ALREADY ADDRESSED.
PLUS YOU SAID THERE WERE TWO OTHERS THAT WERE RELATED TO THAT.
LASTLY, UH, ONLY PROPERTIES OF SUFFICIENT SITES SHOULD BE PERMITTED.
[00:50:01]
COURTS, PROPERTY LINE SETBACKS SHOULD BE SUBSTANTIAL ENOUGH TO ENSURE THAT INSTANT, INSTANTANEOUS PEAK NOISE AT THE PROPERTY BORDER NOT EXCEED THE 60 DEVI AT ITS CURRENTLY ON OUR RECORD HERE.UH, 55 WOULD BE IDEAL, AND THAT'S RECOMMENDED BY THE EPA.
UM, THE CITY CODE CURRENTLY SPECIFIES 60 DBA, WHICH IS AN A WEIGHTED, UH, SCALE THAT CAPTURES HUMAN PERCEPTION OF BROAD RANGE OF SOUNDS THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN AN INSTANTANEOUS SOUND OF THAT CLACK, THAT POP SOUND.
AND STUDIES HAVE SHOWN AS, UH, BECKY SAID THAT, UH, YOU GET UP TO 130 DB OF, UH, MAGNITUDE AND THAT'S THE SAME AS FIREWORKS AND ROCK CONCERTS.
AND AS A MATTER OF CITY POLICY, AND I THINK YOU GUYS ARE ALREADY THINKING ABOUT IT, UH, THE NOISE MITIGATION MUST EXTEND FAR BEYOND PICKLEBALL TO INCLUDE OUTDOOR RESIDENTIAL HIGH IMPACT SPORTS THAT EXHIBIT SIMILAR PEAK NOISE IMPULSES.
THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE BASKETBALL, UM, UH, BADMINTON OR ANY OF THOSE OTHER SOUNDS.
BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN ONES THAT HAVE A TREMENDOUS, UM, DISCONCERTING RESONANCE IN THE HUMANS AND DOGS AND CATS AND ALL THE OTHER ANIMALS AND, UH, SO FORTH THAT GET, UH, INVOLVED.
AND THIS THING ABOUT A LIGHTING PROHI PROBATION.
UM, I THINK THAT'S ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE THAT SOUNDPROOFING THAT BECKY MENTIONED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE MATTRESS BEING UP THERE, I THINK SOME OF THEM CAN BE INCREDIBLY UNSIGHTLY, UH, AND THEN VIEW OBSTRUCTION ISSUES, WHICH SHE ALSO MENTIONED.
REALLY APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY.
SO THAT CONCLUDES, UM, OUR PUBLIC HEARING.
I'LL BRING IT BACK TO THE, UH, COMMISSION FOR COMMENTS.
I'LL START DOWN HERE WITH YOU.
UM, WE MAY ADD CONTACT, I THINK I KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS, BUT THIS HOME THAT WAS DISCUSSED IN THESE COMMENTS, THE FENCING, THE LIGHTING, ALL OF THAT IS UNDER THE PURVIEW OF CODE, CORRECT? YEAH.
SO THERE ARE FENCE HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS THAT AT A PERMIT THAT WOULD REQUIRE A PERMIT.
UM, IT'S GENERALLY SIX FOOT AT THE PROPERTY LINE FOR A SIDE OR REAR SETBACK.
AND THEN ONCE YOU GET OUTSIDE OF THE SETBACK, IT'S CAN BE AS TALL AS YOU WANT.
BUILDING, BUILDING HEIGHT SUPPLY.
UM, BUT THEY'D STILL NEED A PERMIT FOR, THEY WOULD STILL NEED A PERMIT FOR THAT.
ANY LIGHTING WOULD BE DARK SKY COMPLIANT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO BE DARK SKY COMPLIANT.
BUT YEAH, THERE A HEIGHT ON LIGHTING TOO.
IS IT ALSO BUILDING HEIGHT? NO, GENERALLY POLE LIGHTING IS 12 FEET.
BUT, UM, THE, THESE PROPOSED CHANGES WOULD SAY NO LIGHTING FOR COURTS, WHICH, UM, RIGHT.
BUT YEAH, PARKING LOT CURRENTLY PARKING LOT POLE LIGHTING IS LIMITED TO 12 FEET.
AND SO THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANYTHING TALLER THAN THAT ON.
I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT.
CAUGHT MY ATTENTION AS THAT NEEDS A PERMIT.
SO YEAH, IF THEY'RE RUNNING NEW ELECTRICAL OR SOMETHING, THAT'D BE AN ELECTRICAL PERMIT.
LIGHTING IS ALREADY COVERED UNDER THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AS FAR AS FULLY SHIELDED AND THE HEIGHTS OF THE POLES.
UM, THIS REALLY SOUNDS LIKE A PICKLEBALL ISSUE TO ME, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT'S WHERE IT STARTED AND FOR SOME REASON IT HAS WARPED INTO WHATEVER THIS, INTO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT.
UM, TO ME, CODE DOESN'T DIFFERENTIATE WHO THE PROPERTY OWNER IS, WHETHER THAT'S A FAMILY WHO PUTS IN A BASKETBALL COURT BEHIND THEIR HOUSE, AND THEN THE FUTURE IS A STR OR WHATEVER.
LIKE CODE DOESN'T DIFFERENTIATE ABOUT WHO OWNS A HOME.
'CAUSE WE CAN'T, AND ALL SORTS OF REASONS WHY WE SHOULDN'T.
I VIEW WHAT WE ARE HAVE IN FRONT OF US RIGHT THIS SECOND AS ANTI-FAMILY ANTI RECREATION FOR THOSE WHO CAN'T, AREN'T ABLE TO LEAVE THEIR HOME BUT WANT OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES AND IGNORES A, A PORTION OF OUR RESIDENTS WHO MAYBE THIS IS THE ONLY WAY THEY'RE GETTING ACTIVITY IN THEIR LIFE CLOSE TO HOME.
UM, I THINK I'D FEEL REALLY DIFFERENTLY IF THIS WAS JUST ABOUT PICKLEBALL.
THERE IS A HUGE SOUND DIFFERENCE AND NUISANCE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SOUND OF THAT WHIFFLE BALL ON THAT PADDLE AND SOMEONE SHOOTING BASKETS IN THEIR BACKYARD OR WHATEVER THAT LOOKS LIKE.
UM, WE DO HAVE MECHANISMS, IT SOUNDS LIKE, TO STOP PICKLEBALL, COURTS WITH PERVIOUS PAVEMENT CODE WITH SOME OTHER SOUND CODE, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.
UM, SO I, THIS DOESN'T FEEL GOOD TO ME.
IT FEELS, UM, LIKE WE ARE ONLY GOING TO LET THE RICHEST OF THE RICH PARCELS POTENTIALLY ACCESS SPORT.
AND I'M, I UNDERSTAND THERE'S WAYS TO GET IT, GET OVER THE, THE HURDLE OF THE 200 FOOT, BUT IF
[00:55:01]
IT'S A CONTENTIOUS ISSUE, I DON'T ACTUALLY SEE THAT HAPPENING AT THE, DEPENDING ON THE DIRECTORS, STEVE COULD LOOK AT THIS VERY DIFFERENTLY THAN WHOEVER OUR NEXT DIRECTOR IS, WHICH CAN GO EITHER WAY.THE NEXT DIRECTOR COULD BE LIKE, NO, I'M NOT GIVING ANY, ANY ALLOWANCES EVER.
POTENTIALLY THAT IS HOW IT WORKS.
SO I'M, I'M FEELING REALLY NERVOUS ABOUT THIS IN THE CURRENT WAY IT'S WRITTEN.
I SPENT A LOT OF TIME AT THE PICKLEBALL COURTS.
LIKE I SAID, THAT NOISE IS VERY SPECIFIC AND I TOTALLY HEAR THAT.
BUT THIS IS TALKING ABOUT ALL SPORT COURTS AND THAT'S WHY I AM FEELING SO HESITANT TO, TO ADD THIS TO OUR CODE AT THE MOMENT IN THIS WRITTEN, IN THIS WRITTEN VERSION, WILL, I AM INCLINED TO SUPPORT THIS, UH, FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS, BUT I WOULD, I WOULD ALSO BE VERY COMFORTABLE SUPPORTING IF IT WAS JUST FOR PICKLEBALL AND IF SOMEONE WAS TO MAKE A UM MM-HMM
A PROPOSAL TO DO THAT, I CERTAINLY WOULD, UH, WOULD SUPPORT THAT AS WELL.
UM, I WAS JUST LOOKING UP THE SIDE OF A HALF COURT HOME BASKETBALL COURT AND IT'S LIKE 1500 SQUARE FOOT AND PICKLEBALL COURT WOULD BE 900 SQUARE FOOT.
SO THAT'S STILL A SIGNIFICANT, VERY SIGNIFICANT SIZE THAT MOST PEOPLE PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE UNLESS IT'S JUST A LITTLE 30 BY 30 FOOT AREA.
UM, I UNDER CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND IT'S, IT SEEMED TO ME THAT THIS IS ALMOST SOMEWHAT OF A ELITIST ISSUE AND I I DON'T FEEL GREAT ABOUT THAT.
BUT, UM, AND I, I'VE GOTTA SAY THIS, IF I HAD A BASKETBALL COURT RIGHT AT MY PROPERTY LINE MM-HMM
OR IF I HAD A TENNIS COURT, UH, RIGHT AT MY PROPERTY LINE, I WOULDN'T BE HAPPY ABOUT THOSE EITHER, EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY BE LOWER SOUND LEVELS.
UM, I THINK THE CITY, UM, HAS A PLACE TO ENFORCE, UH, HOME SPORT COURTS LIKE THIS.
SPECIFICALLY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PICKLEBALL.
IF PICKLEBALL WAS NEVER INVENTED, WE MIGHT NOT BE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION.
AND PICKLEBALL IS DRIVING THIS, UH, THE SOUND FROM PICKLEBALL IS DRIVING THIS MM-HMM
UH, BUT I ALSO TEND TO THINK THAT THE OTHER SPORTS THAT HAVE LOWER SOUND LEVELS ARE ALSO AN ISSUE.
I THINK THAT'S ALL I'M GONNA SAY.
CHARLOTTE, I, I'D LIKE TO ASK LEGAL A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
UM, COULD
I, I THINK THAT YOU, YOU CAN DO THAT.
UM, YEAH, I MEAN ACTUALLY I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT APPLYING BEYOND PICKLEBALL, BUT FOR THE REASONS THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU STATED GEORGE.
UM, AND THEN SECONDLY, I JUST WANNA PUSH BACK A LITTLE BIT FOR CONVERSIONS OF EXISTING TENNIS COURTS, WHICH LET'S JUST SAY LOS ADOS WANTED TO CONVERT SOME OF THEIRS OR MORE THEIRS.
I DUNNO IF THEY'VE CONVERTED ANY OF 'EM, BUT, UM, IT'S A NEW USE.
WHY ARE THEY GRANDFATHERED IN? WELL, I THINK THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE EVALUATED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
AND I IN RELATIONSHIP TO HOW THE, THE NEW LDC CODE IS WRITTEN.
I MEAN, THIS PRIMARILY IS GEARED TOWARDS RESIDENTIAL USE AS CARRIE RIGHTFULLY POINTED OUT.
THERE IS THE PROVISION ABOUT COMMERCIAL USE, BUT IT MIGHT NOT EVEN COME INTO PLAY.
SO CARRIE CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, WRONG, BUT I THINK IT WOULD HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS BASED ON THE ZONING, BASED ON THE CURRENT SETBACKS.
UM, CARRIE, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING FURTHER TO ADD ON A CHANGE IN USE? WELL, I THINK THAT WHEN, WHEN HAD WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THIS, YOU KNOW, BACK WHEN WE HAD FIRST GONE TO CITY COUNCIL WITH IT, THE PICKLEBALL VERSUS TENNIS IS HOW YOU'RE USING SOMETHING.
THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL STRUCTURE IS VERY SIMILAR.
SO IF YOU SAY YES TO PICKLEBALL, BUT NO TO TENNIS, LIKE WE'RE NOT, OR, OR SORRY, YEAH.
AS YOU SAY, YES TO TENNIS, BUT NO TO PICKLEBALL.
LIKE HOW WE DO NOT, WE DO NOT HAVE A WAY TO SAY, WELL NOW YOU'RE NO LONGER ALLOWED TO BUY A PICKLEBALL PADDLE AND GO AND USE YOUR TENNIS COURT FOR THAT.
UM, THERE'S NOT A, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN WRITE INTO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
[01:00:01]
SO WHEN WE LOOKED AT IT BECAUSE OF THAT, WE CAN'T SAY WE, WHAT WE GOT TO IS WE COULDN'T DIFFERENTIATE THAT IT HAS TO BE SPORT COURTS.AND THAT'S WHY WE PUT THE DEFINITION IN THAT WE DID OF, I THINK WE SAID, YOU KNOW, 20 BY 30 FLAT SURFACE CONSTRUCTED FOR THESE TYPES OF ACTIVITIES.
BECAUSE YEAH, WE CAN'T GO AND, YOU KNOW, STAND IT.
THE IDEA IS A, A SPORTING GOODS STORE AND BE LIKE, OH, YOU LIVE IN SEDONA.
YOU CAN'T BUY A PICKLEBALL PA LIKE, OR YOU CAN'T USE THAT ON YOUR PROPERTY.
'CAUSE WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT ARE YOU CONSTRUCTING, WHAT CAN WE GIVE A PERMIT FOR? WHAT CAN WE ACTUALLY HAVE REGULATIONS FOR? SO IF WE CHANGE IT JUST TO LOOKING AT PICKLEBALL, WE HAVE TO INCLUDE TENNIS, WHICH I TOTALLY GET.
'CAUSE IF YOU GO TO POSSE GROUNDS TENNIS COURTS, THERE ARE SPECIFIC LINES FOR PICKLEBALL.
YOU CAN'T, YOU COULD PLAY EITHER WITH THE NET.
SO I THINK IF, IF THERE'S ANY DISCUSSION OR THOUGHT ON THE, ON THE COMMISSION ABOUT JUST TALKING ABOUT PICKLEBALL, IT HAS TO INCLUDE TENNIS POTEN.
LIKE, AND THEN YOU GO DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE OF LIKE, OKAY, YOU HAVE A FULL COURT BASKETBALL COURT, SOMEONE PUTS A TEMPORARY NET ON, THERE'S A, I SEE HOW YOU GOT THERE.
NOW THERE'S A, THERE'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE OF, YOU HAVE A CONCRETE PAD.
WHAT DO YOU USE YOUR CONCRETE PAD FOR? WELL, I, I THINK MAYBE YOUR CHARGE WAS TO LOOK AT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE MM-HMM
BUT PERHAPS IT NEEDS TO GO BEYOND THAT AND LOOK AT THE NOISE ORDINANCE OR OTHER, OTHER WAYS TO COME AT THIS.
AND, AND I WOULD SAY IF YOU CHANGE THE USE AND YOU CHANGE THE DECIBEL LEVEL AND YOU CHANGE THE PERCUSSIVE QUALITY, IT'S A DIFFERENT THING.
UM, AND THE, THE NOISE QUESTIONS ARE HANDLED THROUGH THE NOISE ORDINANCE IN THE CITY CODE, NOT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
THAT'S EXACTLY, BUT MAYBE WE'RE NOT CASTING THE NET BROADLY ENOUGH.
SO, UM, MY THOUGHT ON THIS IS I DON'T, I DO THINK IT NEEDS TO BE REGULATED REGARDLESS OF HOW FEW TIMES IT MAY ACTUALLY COME UP.
UM, BECAUSE IT'S GROWING AND ALTHOUGH THERE IS DISCRETION ON THE PART OF THE DIRECTOR, AND I HAVE NO, UM, PROBLEM WITH THE, THE CRITERIA THAT THEY WOULD LOOK AT.
WHAT I DON'T SEE IN THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PUBLIC, THE AFFECTED PUBLIC TO WEIGH IN ON IT, BECAUSE IT'S NOT A PERMIT.
AND, UM, THEY JUST, THEY DON'T HAVE A WAY INTO THIS.
SO WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST WOULD BE A CASE BY CASE BASIS, UH, UH, REQUIRING A CUP CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, AND THAT ALLOWS FOR NOTIFICATION OF NEIGHBORS, ALLOWS FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.
UM, YOU STILL WOULD HAVE THESE CRITERIA, BUT THE DECISION ON HOW TO APPLY THE, UM, THE MITIGATING ONES WOULD BE MADE IN PUBLIC WITH, UM, A GROUP DECISION.
SO THAT WOULD BE MY PREFERENCE.
IF THAT'S WHAT IT, WHAT IT GETS TO, UM, THE SPECIFIC CASE THAT WAS BROUGHT UP.
WHAT HAPPENS, ASSUMING THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE CALLS TO THE, YOU KNOW, FOR NOISE VIOLATIONS.
HOW, WHAT DOES, HOW DOES THAT LIKE PAN OUT? LIKE LET'S SAY THE NEIGHBOR CALLS 2, 3, 4, 5 TIMES.
WHAT'S THE PROCESS? CAN YOU GUYS JUST SHUT IT DOWN? LIKE, AFTER A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF NOISE VIOLATIONS? SO, UM, THANK YOU.
UH, LIKE ANY VIOLATION THAT WE HAVE TO ASSESS, UM, WE, IT WOULD BE AN INITIAL NOTICE OF VIOLATION.
UM, IF THAT NOTICE OF VIOLATION WERE NOT FOLLOWED, THEN WE HAVE THE ALLOWANCE TO ISSUE A CITATION.
UH, THAT WOULD THEN GO TO, IN FRONT OF THE JUDGE.
THE JUDGE WOULD MAKE A FINDING, UM, IF WE COME BACK CONTINUOUS TIMES WITH CITATIONS 'CAUSE THEY'RE STILL NOT FOLLOWING, UH, OUR CODES.
UM, THEN WE HAVE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT AREAS.
OF COURSE, THE JUDGE COULD ASSESS SOMETHING AND, UH, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, IF YOU WILL, MONIQUE, AT SOME POINT IN TIME IT MIGHT EVEN JUMP INTO A CRIMINAL CASE AS OPPOSED TO, UM, CIVIL CITATION.
BUT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT OUR LEGAL TEAM WOULD HAVE TO, OKAY.
THERE'S CERTAIN, UH, DISTURBING OF THE, THE PIECE THAT COULD BECOME CRIMINAL.
SO THAT'S WHAT IT WOULD TURN INTO, YOU KNOW, NUISANCE.
'CAUSE THAT SOUNDS LIKE A TERRIBLE SITUATION.
I MEAN, I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO PROCESS THAT ONE.
UM, SO I GUESS, SO I FELL DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE AND PICKLE BALL COURTS AND LOOKED UP MITIGATING PRODUCTS, PICKLE BLOCK AND ALL THESE OTHER THINGS YOU CAN HANG ON CHAIN LINK FENCES.
AND THEN I SAW OUR CODE AND CHAIN LINK FENCES.
YOU CAN HAVE 'EM, BUT THEY HAVE TO BE PAINTED.
SO I KIND OF FELL DOWN THE HOLE FOR A WHILE.
AND I THINK, I THINK PICKLEBALL COURTS SHOULD BE
[01:05:01]
NOT ALLOWED ANYWHERE IN RESIDENTIAL AT ALL.I THINK IT SHOULD BE A COMMUNITY PARK RESOURCE.
I THINK THAT IT'S ACTUALLY IN CONFLICT OF OUR SEDONA COMMUNITY PLAN.
UM, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO EVALUATE IS THIS CONSISTENT WITH THE SEDONA COMMUNITY PLAN? AND ONE OF THE COMMUNITY GOALS IS BUILD A STRONG SENSE OF COMMUNITY AND CULTURE.
AND I THINK THIS DOES THE OPPOSITE OF THAT.
UM, I THINK, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE KEY COMMUNITY POLICIES IS CREATE PLACES WHERE PEOPLE GET TOGETHER, INTERACT AND SHARE EXPERIENCE.
SO I THINK IT BEHOOVES US AS A CITY TO MAKE THOSE MORE IN PUBLIC SPACES AS OPPOSED TO ON SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES.
UM, I FOUND FROM MY RESEARCH AND DECIBELS AND I READ WHITE PAPERS FROM SCIENTISTS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE DECIBEL IS DEFINITELY DIFFERENT THAN THE OTHER SPORTS COURTS.
AND SO I WOULD PREFER TO SEE SOMETHING MASSAGED ALONG THE LINES OF, I THINK WE DEFINITELY NEED SOME SORT OF CODE DEVELOPMENT AROUND SPORTS COURTS ON PROPERTIES.
I DON'T LIKE THAT IT COULD ONLY BE FOR THE WEALTHY AS WELL.
UM, BUT I THINK THAT WE SHOULD HAVE CODES FOR SPORTS COURTS, BUT I THINK PICKLEBALL SHOULD BE NIX AID FROM ANYWHERE BUT PUBLIC SPACES.
UM, THAT'S MY OPINION, BECAUSE IT IS REALLY OFFENSIVE.
AND SOME PEOPLE ARE SAYING, SOME OF THESE STUDIES SAY THAT PEOPLE EVEN INSIDE OF THEIR HOME, THEY'RE HEARING THIS, THEY CAN'T EVEN GET AWAY FROM IT, YOU KNOW, INSIDE OF THEIR HOMES.
AND I SAW IN ONE OF THE CITIES, 'CAUSE I DID, I DID A LOT OF RESEARCH FROM THE CITIES THAT HAVE IMPLEMENTED CODES AROUND THIS.
AND ONE CITY ACTUALLY HAD VERBIAGE THAT SAID, NOT PLAINLY, AUDIBLE INSIDE A RESIDENTIAL DWELLING.
THE SOUND FROM THE USE OF OUTDOOR PICKLEBALL COURTS SHALL NOT BE PLAINLY AUDIBLE WITHIN A RESIDENTIAL DWELLING MM-HMM
UM, WHICH I THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
UM, IF WE DO DECIDE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS AND WE DO DECIDE THAT WE'RE GONNA, YOU KNOW, VOTE ON THIS, I'D LIKE TO ALSO ADD HOURS OF OPERATION.
YOU KNOW, THEY CAN ONLY BE USED DURING CERTAIN TIMES OF THE DAY, MAYBE CERTAIN DAYS OF THE WEEK.
I MEAN, THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME SORT OF RELIEF BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S, IT IS, IT'S LOUD.
AND, UM, I MEAN, I I JUST GIVES ME ANXIETY THINKING ABOUT SOMEBODY HAVING IT NEXT DOOR TO ME.
SO, BUT AGAIN, THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN, YOU KNOW, OUR KIDS HAVING, YOU KNOW, A PLACE TO PLAY BASKETBALL IN THE BACKYARD FOR A LITTLE BIT OR TENNIS COURTS.
UM, SO I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE SPORTS COURT CODE, BUT I THINK PICKLEBALL COURTS SHOULD BE NOT ALLOWED, PERIOD.
AND I GUESS LEGAL IS SAYING WE CAN'T DO THAT.
UM, AND I'M NOT SOMEBODY WHO LIKES TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT THEY SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT DO ON THEIR PROPERTY.
I THINK EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE THE AUTONOMY TO DO WHAT THEY WANNA DO.
BUT THIS IS A VERY PROGRESSIVE NEW THING THAT'S COME TO LIGHT AND IT HAS REAL IMPACTS TO PEOPLE IN THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE.
AND YOU KNOW, I THINK WHEN WE LOOK AT THINGS WE HAVE TO LOOK AT FOR THE GREATER OF THE WHOLE, AND IF WE START ALLOWING PICKLEBALL COURTS, EVEN WITH CODES, THERE'S GONNA BE WAYS TO GET AROUND IT AND PEOPLE ARE GONNA DO IT.
AND IT'S GONNA BE A PROBLEM FOR OUR COMMUNITY, WHICH I THINK IS AGAINST THE SEDONA COMMUNITY PLAN.
UH, I, I DID THINK ABOUT THE EARLIER QUESTION OF WHETHER, UH, THE CITY OF SEDONA COULD DO NOW AT BAN ON PICKLEBALL COURTS MM-HMM
AND LIKE SOME OTHER STATES HAVE.
I DON'T KNOW IF ANY CITIES WITHIN ARIZONA HAVE, AND NOT THAT I'M, I'M CURT, BUT MY OWN INDEPENDENT, UM, THOUGHTS AND, AND RESEARCH WOULD, I WOULD COME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION BECAUSE CITIES CAN ONLY REGULATE THE USE OF LAND, THE USE OF YARDS IN THE MANNER THAT THE STATE LEGISLATURE HAS GRANTED TO US.
AND THE STATE LEGISLATURE HAS SAID THAT FOR THE USE OF LAND WE CAN ONLY REGULATE BASED, UM, ON THE BEST INTEREST OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY, PUBLIC HEALTH AND GENERAL WELFARE.
SO I MEAN, THAT, THAT, THAT'S BROAD.
SO I THINK THE GENERAL WELFARE CERTAINLY GIVES THE CITY AUTHORIZATION TO PUT SOME LIMITATIONS ON PICKLEBALL AND TENNIS IN ANY OTHER TYPE OF A SPORT LIKE THAT, THAT THE SPORT COURT DEFINITION WOULD COVER.
BUT I THINK A GENERAL WELFARE WOULD TAKE IT, UH, TO A BIG EXTREME FOR PROHIBITION.
UNLESS SUDDENLY WE'RE SEEING, YOU KNOW, A HUNDRED SPORT COURTS, THEN, YOU KNOW, THE ENTIRE CITY IS JUST PERMEATED WITH THIS NOISE.
BUT I, BUT I THINK THAT OUR AUTHORITY AS A CITY IS LIMITED, UH, SO WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PROHIBIT THEM.
WHAT ABOUT WE CAN LIMIT THE HOURS OF USE AS SUGGESTED? OH YEAH.
HOW EXTREMELY CAN WE LIMIT THE HOURS OF USE
I WANT THE LAWYER ANSWER REASONABLE.
YOU DIDN'T WANT THE LAWYER ANSWER.
YEAH, THAT WAS BROUGHT UP, UM, WITH COUNCIL TOO.
WE PUT IN THE PROHIBITION ON LIGHTING MM-HMM
UM, AS A WAY TO, BECAUSE I GUESS IT'S GONNA CHANGE DIFFERENT TIMES OF THE YEAR DURING THE SUMMER.
YOU MIGHT WANT TO NOT WANNA BE OUT THERE IN THE SUMMER IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY, BUT THAT MIGHT BE THE IDEAL TIME.
SO WE FELT THAT THE PROHIBITION ON LIGHTING WOULD AT LEAST KEEP IT TO DAYLIGHT HOURS.
I BET LIGHT UP BALLS AND PADDLES EXIST BECAUSE LIGHT UP GOLF BALLS EXIST.
AND I KNOW PEOPLE WHO GOLF AT NIGHT JUST SAYING, I DO PEOPLE GOLF.
I MEAN, IMAGINE YOU WORK HARD ALL WEEK, SIX
[01:10:01]
DAYS A WEEK, PHYSICAL LABOR JOB, AND YOU JUST WANNA SLEEP IN ON SUNDAYS.YOU AND SOMEBODY'S OUT THERE AT SIX 30.
I'M DING DINK, DINK DINK DING.
I MEAN, IT'S, COULD WE, CAN WE SAY SUN UP TO SUNDOWN ADDITIONALLY IN, IN THE, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, RATHER THAN JUST ASSUMING NO LIGHTS, BECAUSE JUST LIKE LIGHT UP STUFF EXISTS.
I HAVE TO SAY CALLIE, I DON'T THINK AS A, AS A PERSON HAVING AS SUN UP WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA.
BECAUSE, BECAUSE THEN THAT'S DON'S, I WAS JUST TRYING O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING AROUND THE LIGHTING.
I DEFINITELY THINK, YOU KNOW, UM, I HAVE SEVERAL COMMENTS AND IT'S NOT MY TURN YET, BUT I DEFINITELY THINK SOME SORT OF, UH, YOU KNOW, ORDINANCE REGARDING THE TIME OF JUST LIKE WE HAVE ORDINANCES ON WHEN CONTRACTORS CAN START WORKING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, AND I DON'T THINK WE CAN SAY MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY.
I THINK WE HAVE TO SAY 7:00 PM TO SEVEN 7:00 AM TO 7:00 PM OR SOMETHING OF THAT SORT.
UM, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE, CAN I GO OR SHOULD I STOP THERE? WELL, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, SARAH, HAD YOU COMPLETED YEAH, SHE'S ALMOST DONE.
UM, AS FAR AS THE, YOU KNOW, I READ DIFFERENT CITIES AND SOME OF THEM WERE, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD, YOU KNOW, LIKE EIGHT TO 5:00 PM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
AND THEN ON WEEKENDS, LIKE ON SUNDAYS THEY SAID LIKE, NOON TO FIVE OR, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY ACTUALLY DID HAVE VARIABILITY BASED ON WEEKDAYS AND WEEKENDS.
SO I DID SEE THAT IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS.
DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE? NOPE, I'M GOOD.
UM, IN REGARDS TO THE TIME, YOU KNOW, WHEN I SEE OUR EVENTS THAT WE HAVE IN OUR COMMUNITY, SO I LIVE PRETTY FAR AWAY FROM POSSE GROUND, BUT BECAUSE OF THE MOUNTAINS, I KNOW WHEN SOMETHING STARTS IMMEDIATELY.
SO I GET DRUM CIRCLE WITHOUT GOING, I HAVE THE MOUNTAIN BIKE FESTIVAL MUSICIANS WITHOUT GOING, WHICH IS FINE.
IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME, BUT I'M, I'M NOT THE REGULAR POPULATION.
SO I THINK LIKE REGARDING TIME, IT WOULD BE REALLY GREAT IF WE FOLLOWED WHATEVER THAT TIMEFRAME IS FOR, UH, PUBLIC MUSIC.
IS THAT, IS THAT TO 10:00 PM BECAUSE THAT'S KIND OF LATE FOR A LOT OF OUR RESIDENTS.
THE SOUND REGULATIONS ARE 7:00 AM TO 10:00 PM 10:00 PM TO 7:00 AM OKAY.
OR THE DIFFERENCES WHEN THE DECIBEL LEVELS CHANGE, EVEN ON FOLKS THAT ARE HAVING COMMUNITY EVENTS AT THE POSSE GROUNDS, THEY CAN GO TILL 10 O'CLOCK AT NIGHT.
WHAT ABOUT CONTRACTORS HOURS? WHAT ARE THOSE? UH, SEVEN TO LIKE, I THINK SIX IN THE SUMMER, ISN'T IT? YEAH.
THEY CAN ACTUALLY START, UM, I BELIEVE A HALF HOUR BEFORE SUNUP.
WE MAY NOT WANT TO FOLLOW THAT
I THINK WE CAN ALL NEGOTIATE TIME IN JUST A MINUTE, BUT I WANNA JUST TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS.
UM, YOU KNOW, KELLY, I HAD TWO KIDS AND KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO GO TO THE PARK AND, AND NOT HAVE AVAILABILITY FOR THE KIDS WHEN I'M OUT THERE.
UM, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, UH, I WAS RECENTLY AT A PERSON'S HOME, NOT HERE IN SEDONA, BUT WITH VERY SHALLOW, UM, BACKYARD, BUT LONG.
AND IT HAD A POOL, A BARBECUE PLACE LIKE FOR PARTYING AND A BASKETBALL COURT ALL CUFFED IN THERE.
AND I KNOW THAT IF I WERE TO BUY THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR, I WOULDN'T BUY THE HOUSE BECAUSE THERE'S A BASKET.
LIKE IT'S NOT A FULL BASKETBALL.
IT WAS LIKE ENOUGH TO LIKE, TO PLAY LIKE, YOU KNOW, HORSE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO I, I HEAR YOU AND I GET IT, BUT I ALSO COULD SEE THAT STILL BEING A NO ISSUE.
UM, I LIKE THE IDEA OF TIME, THE TIME LIMITS, AND THEN WE ARE PARKS REALLY HAVE A LOT OF PICKLEBALL SO WE CAN PUSH PEOPLE INTO THAT PICKLEBALL ENVIRONMENT.
AND YOU COULD PICK UP A TOURNAMENT THERE PRETTY EASILY.
I MEAN, YOU COULD DO A PICKUP GAME AND HAVE A GREAT TIME THERE.
UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THESE KIND OF NOISE ITEMS, RIGHT? SO DOG PARKS WOULD BE ANOTHER ONE THAT WOULD BE SIMILAR TO THIS, RIGHT? MM-HMM
YOU KNOW, IF SOMEONE SAID, HEY, I DON'T WANT A DOG PARK IN MY BACK, I DON'T WANT MY NEIGHBOR TO HAVE A DOG PARK OR A DOG SITTING BUSINESS THAT AFFECTS MY NEIGHBORHOOD.
IT HAS THAT SAME KIND OF ENERGY ABOUT IT.
UM, I FEEL LIKE THE CITY DOES A GOOD JOB AT SAYING, HEY JOE, YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT DOG PARK IN YOUR BACKYARD.
UM, SO I THINK THAT THIS, YOU KNOW, SITS DOES WELL WITH THE SPORT CAR SPORT PARTS WITH PARK SPORT.
IT'S HARD TO SAY SPORT COURTS.
I LIKE THE IDEA OF, UM, THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
I WANNA MAKE A COMMENT THOUGH ABOUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT, OH, THIS IS FOR THE RICH.
THIS IS ONLY THE RICH ARE GONNA HAVE THIS.
WELL, I LOOK AT IT COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
WHAT I LOOK AT IS WE'RE USING CITY CODE TO MAKE SURE THAT NOT EVERYONE CAN PUT A SPORT COURT IN THEIR BACKYARD.
SO I DON'T LOOK AT IT THAT WAY 'CAUSE THERE'S NOT, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE PERCENTAGE OF LOT SIZES, WE DON'T HAVE A TON OF LARGE LOTS THAT COULD PUT THIS SIZE COURT ON HERE.
[01:15:01]
IT, I I LOOK AT IT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT IN THAT, IN THAT COMPONENT.UM, I ALSO LOOKED AT THE COMMUNITY PLAN
UH, I DIDN'T LOOK AT THE COMMUNITY USE PART.
I LOOKED AT LAND USE POLICIES.
AND MY QUESTION IS THIS, AND WE HAVE POLICY 4.3 AND IT STATES MAINTAIN DESIGN STANDARDS THAT REFLECT SEDONAS SENSE OF PLACE, HISTORIC AND CULTURAL HERITAGE BUS SHEDS AND ENVIRONMENTAL NATURAL RESOURCES.
AND I THINK WHEN WE TALK ABOUT PICKLEBALL PORTS AND WHERE THEY ARE, UM, IT'S NOT A SENSE OF PLACE, RIGHT? 'CAUSE YOU CAN GO GET A PICKLE PORT ANYWHERE.
UM, IT HAS ENVIRONMENTAL AND NATURAL RESOURCE NEGATIVE IMPACTS.
SO, AND I THINK AS A SPORT COURT COULD HAVE THE SAME, I I THINK ABOUT THE BUCK AND THE HER OF DEER THAT GO BY MY HOUSE.
IF I PUT A BASKETBALL COURT RIGHT THERE, I DON'T HAVE ANY MORE DEER.
YOU KNOW, I DON'T HAVE HALINA.
SO I, I REALLY FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, COMING UP WITH THIS, UH, POLICIES, I FEEL IT'S, IT'S PRETTY SOLID.
BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE A-A-A-C-O-P AND THEN, UM, SOME SORT OF HOURS OF OPERATION.
NOW WHEN I ASK ABOUT A COP THOUGH, CAN WE JUST TALK ABOUT REALLY QUICKLY THAT PROCESS? LIKE, DOES IT HAVE TO COME TO PNZ OR IS COP APPROVED BY C THE C PS A PRIVATE REVIEW? BECAUSE I KNOW WE'VE HAD C PS THAT COME TO US.
THEY ALWAYS COME TO US, RIGHT? SOME DO THOUGH, NO, ALL ALL COME TO US.
SO WE WOULD BRING EVERY, WELL, I GUESS IT WOULD MAKE SENSE.
'CAUSE THEN THAT WOULD OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE S YEAH.
THERE AREN'T GONNA BE THAT MANY INSTANCES, RIGHT? NO, IT'S COULD BE IT VERY, VERY LIMITED.
I THINK PROBABLY THE PART OF THE PROBLEM IS WE'RE ONLY LOOKING AT LDC TONIGHT.
AND SO SOME OF THESE OTHER NOISE CONCERNS HAVE A PLACE I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU, BUT NOT IN THE LDC.
'CAUSE WE CAN'T DO HOURS OF OPERATION IN THE LDC, IS THAT CORRECT? WELL, I THINK SHE WAS TRYING TO DO THAT BY THE DISALLOWING OF LIGHTING.
SO THAT'S WHY WE DO THAT LIGHTING.
BUT STILL, THAT'S A HUGE CONCERN I THINK THAT'S BEEN BROUGHT UP IS DO WE WANT 'EM TO HAVE PICKLEBALL AT FIVE 30 IN THE MORNING? SO MAYBE WE ARE NOT IN A POSITION TONIGHT WITH, UH, ABSENT THE INFORMATION ON, UH, NOISE THAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING TO TAKE ACTION OR, UM, I MEAN, IT WOULD BE TWO SEPARATE PORTIONS OF CODE THAT WOULD BE MM-HMM
IF WE FEEL COMFORTABLE ENOUGH WITH THIS GOING FORWARD, I'M JUST PROPOSING IT, YOU KNOW, BUT MODIFYING IT, IT WOULD REQUIRE CEP THEN WE COULD ALSO SUGGEST TO COUNCIL MM-HMM
THAT THEY NEED TO ALSO LOOK AT THE NOISE ORDINANCE.
SO AGAIN, COUNCIL DID BRING UP, YOU KNOW, PART OF THEIR DIRECTION BACK IN OCTOBER WAS THAT WE LOOK AT THE NOISE ORDINANCE AND WE DID, AND WE DID FEEL THAT THE WAY THE NOISE ORDINANCE IS CURRENTLY WRITTEN DOES ALLOW US TO ADDRESS THE CONCERNS THAT PEOPLE HAVE BROUGHT UP SURROUNDING PICKLEBALL COURT.
SO WE ARE NOT EVEN, SO AGAIN, THAT WAS PART OF COUNCIL'S DIRECTION.
WE ARE NOT ANTICIPATING HAVING TO TAKE ANY CHANGES.
AND I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE CONCERNS, I HAVE TO SAY FROM MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IN MY HOUSEHOLD ON THE NOISE COMPLAINTS, NOT ME AS GETTING COMPLAINED ON, BUT WITH MY HUSBAND'S PRIOR CAREER, UM, YEAH, THERE'S HOT TUB COMPLAINTS.
I MEAN, PEOPLE WILL CALL AND SAY THERE'S SOMEONE, THEY'RE TOO LOUD AT THE HOT TUB.
UM, THERE'S PEOPLE TALKING TOO LOUD ON THEIR PORCH WITH A CELL PHONE.
YOU, YOU, I MEAN, PEOPLE CALL THAT INTO THE DEPARTMENT AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT COMES IN AND SAYS, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT, THE FOUR OF YOU IN THIS HOT TUB ARE? I CAN HEAR YOU DOWN THE STREET.
SO I THINK THAT THAT PART OF THE NOISE ORDERINGS IS, IS, IS WILL FIT HERE.
I THINK WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS HOURS OF OPERATION NOW.
SO JOE, CAN I MENTION SOMETHING? COME BACK TO ONE.
YOU CAN HAVE AS MANY DOGS AS YOU WANT.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO CALL IT A DOG PARK.
YOUR BACKYARD CAN HAVE AS MANY AS YOU'D LIKE.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY CODE THAT'S GOING TO LIMIT YOU OTHER THAN SOUND CODE.
THERE SHOULD BE A COUNTY CODE ON HOW MANY, UM, DOGS YOU CAN HAVE.
BECAUSE I, WELL, I I ONLY KNOW MARICOPA COUNTY, BUT I THINK MARICOPA COUNTY LIMITS TO FIVE OR SIX.
WE'RE NOT TALKING DOGS' NOT TALKING TONIGHT.
GETTING, I'M JUST SAYING THE, THE DOG PARK ANALOGY I FEEL LIKE IS A LITTLE BIT MIS TO THIS.
THIS IS MY BIGGEST CONCERN AND I THINK FROM A, FROM LIKE A, AN ACCESSIBILITY PORTION IS A KID PUTTING UP A BASKETBALL HOOP IN THE BACKYARD, MAYBE IT'S NOT EVEN PAVED, MAYBE IT'S GRAVEL.
THERE IS A MORE NIMBY THAN NOT NEIGHBOR, NO MORE BASKETBALL FOR THAT KID UNDER THIS CODE PERIOD.
SO THE DEFINITION STATES THAT IT WOULD BE ANY FLAT HARDSCAPE AREA OF DIMENSION EXCEEDING 20 FEET BY 30 FEET.
RIGHT? SO IF YOU HAVE A, UM, SO YOU HAVE A FLAGSTONE.
I'M REALLY THINKING ABOUT YOUR HOUSE, SARAH.
I'M SO SORRY, BUT IT'S THE ONLY EXAMPLE I HAVE IN MY HEAD.
SO IF YOU HAVE AN AREA THAT'S LESS THAN 20 BY 30, IT WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED A SPORT COURT.
IF IT'S A FLAGSTONE BACKYARD, WHICH COULD BE BIGGER THAN 20 BY 30.
[01:20:01]
THERE FEELS LIKE THERE COULD BE, AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LIKE THE PICKLEBALL COMPLAINTS ARE REAL, THE NOISE IS REAL.I JUST DON'T WANT THIS TO HAVE UNFORESEEN CONSEQUENCES THAT MAKE US LOOK EVEN MORE ANTI-FAMILY, EVEN MORE ANTI, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, THAT THIS IS SLIGHTLY ABLEST.
LIKE IT FEELS LIKE THIS IS NOT THE, THE PERFECT WAY OF, NOT THAT IT'LL EVER BE PERFECT, BUT IT FEEL, IT MAKES ME REAL NERVOUS.
WE'RE ALREADY PERCEIVED AS SO ANTI-FAMILY.
AND SO IT'S LIKE, IT MAKES ME NERVOUS BECAUSE YOU, CHRIS, I, I DON'T KNOW HOW BIG YOUR BACKYARD IS, SARAH, AGAIN, SORRY FOR USING YOUR HOUSE, BUT MINE DOESN'T WORK.
CHRISTIAN CAN PUT A BACK, HYPOTHETICALLY CAN PUT A BASKETBALL HOOP BACK THERE HYPOTHETICALLY IF IT'S BIG ENOUGH.
IT MIGHT, I THINK ALSO, I THINK ALSO AS WE TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SPORT COURTS, SO SPORT THINGS LIKE HOW ABOUT THE BATTING CAGES, RIGHT? AND YOU HAVE, BUT, AND YOU HAVE THE BASKETBALL HOOP.
BUT THE NEXT QUESTION IS IF YOU, YOU LEAD THE CODE, IT JUST NEEDS, YOU COULD MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT LESS A BI DON'T KNOW IF IT INCLUDES A PORTABLE BASKETBALL HOOP.
LIKE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME, THERE'S SOME, OR THERE'S SOME REGULATIONS IN OTHER CITIES THAT SAY IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BASKETBALL HOOP AT YOUR, IN YOUR DRIVEWAY, IT HAS TO BE PERMANENTLY AFFIXED.
YOU CAN'T HAVE A TEMPORARY ONE.
SO IS IT A SPORT COURT IF IT'S A TEMP, IF THERE'S A TEMPORARY BASKETBALL COURT? WELL THAT'S, OR BASKETBALL HOOP OR A TEMPORARY BATTING CAGE.
I DON'T KNOW THAT AS AN ANSWER.
IS THAT THE, THE, THE LOUDEST NEIGHBOR COULD POTENTIALLY JUST KEEP A KID INSIDE.
THAT'S, AND AND IT'S, IT'S TRUE.
I MEAN, I, I SEE IT, I SEE IT ALL THE TIME WHERE I LIVE.
I HAVE A NEIGHBOR WHO'S YOUNG, WHO'S A MIDDLE YOUNG CHILD, YOUNG MAN, AND HE DOES BOY STUFF, RIGHT? AND THE NEIGHBORS GET SO MAD ALL THE TIME AT THIS BOY WHO'S JUST DOING BOY STUFF,
AND IT'S, SOMETIMES IT'S LOUD, SOMETIMES IT'S JUST GROSS 'CAUSE IT'S A BOY
BUT, YOU KNOW, HE'S NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG, BUT THEY'RE STILL UPSET.
AND I THINK THAT'S JUST GONNA HAPPEN.
I MEAN, I THINK YOU'RE GONNA HAVE YOU, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY YOU'RE LUCKY YOU HAVE GREAT NEIGHBORS, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S BEEN INTERESTING WATCHING THIS, THIS YOUNG MAN GET PICKED ON ALL THE TIME.
AND SO IT'S REAL, IT IS SUPER REAL.
I'M NOT GOING TO POOR, POOR KID GETS BLAMED FOR THE LANDSCAPER CUTTING SOMETHING DOWN.
I'M LIKE, NO, THE LANDSCAPER DID.
SO I THINK THAT THAT'S, I THINK, YEAH.
GETTING A LITTLE OFF SCRIPT HERE.
UM, ARE, ARE WE IN A, DO WE HAVE ANY MORE COMMENTS DOWN HERE? I JUST HAVE
UM, A TWO CAR GARAGE IS 20 FOOT BY 20 FOOT, WHICH I THINK IS REASONABLE SIZE IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BACKYARD BASKETBALL COURT FOR YOUR KID.
UM, IF, IF DRIVEWAY, OR EVEN IF YOU DON'T, EVEN IF YOU DON'T, BECAUSE THE ORDINANCE CARRIE SAID IS FOR 20 BY 30.
WE DEFINED A SPORT COURT AS MORE THAN 20 BY 30.
SO IF YOU HAVE 20 BY 20, IT'S NOT WITHIN THE ORDINANCE.
SO YOU COULD PUT IN YOUR HALF BALL, HALF COURT BASKETBALL.
YOU'RE NOT EXCLUDING 20 X 20, 20 X 30 MM-HMM
SO I, SO IT REALLY IS NOT ANTI-FAMILY BECAUSE THAT POSSIBILITY EXISTS.
YOU COULD STILL, YOU KNOW, WITH ALL THE OTHER ORDINANCES, YOU COULD PUT A PAD DOWN THERE THAT'S 20 BY 30 AND IT'S NOT SUBJECT TO THIS ORDINANCE.
I GUESS YOU COULD PROBABLY BADMINTON, HE COULD PROBABLY USE THE FAMILY HOUSE AS A WALL AND YOU COULD HIT A PICKLE BALL AGAINST THE HOUSE ALL DAY LONG OR A BASKET OR A TENNIS BALL.
BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
I THINK THE 200 FOOT IS INTERESTING TOO.
'CAUSE A LOT OF THE ONES THAT I READ ONLINE WERE LIKE 800.
WILL, I WAS GOING ONE MORE COMMENT.
I WAS JUST WONDERING, CAN WE WAIT JUST A MINUTE.
ARE YOU, ARE YOU FINISHED GEORGE? YES.
WILL, I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT I HAD SOME CONCERNS ABOUT CERTAIN WAYS THAT THIS WAS WRITTEN WHEN I WAS READING IT.
UM, AFTER ALL THAT WE'VE HEARD AND WE'VE BEEN BEATING THIS, WHAT I BELIEVE IS A DEAD HORSE UNTIL IT'S UNRECOGNIZABLE, I THINK, UH, IT'S AS WELL WRITTEN AS WE'RE GONNA GET.
UH, IT'S BEEN WELL THOUGHT OUT AND I THINK WE SHOULD SUPPORT IT.
I WAS JUST WONDERING TOO, IF ON THE LIGHTING YOU HAVE LIGHTING A PRIVATE SPORT COURTS IS PROHIBITED, UM, DO YOU HAVE TO, DO WE HAVE TO SPECIFY TEMPORARY OR FIXED SO THAT PEOPLE KNOW? OR IS THAT JUST GIVEN? WE CAN SPECIFY THAT BECAUSE I WOULD DEFINITELY TO JUST IGNORE YOU, I WOULD GO AHEAD AND GO BUY MY REBI SPOTLIGHT AND STICK IT ON MY BACK DOOR.
[01:25:01]
YEAH.SO THAT'S ONE THING THAT WOULD BE AWESOME IF WE COULD FIX THAT.
UM, AND THEN WE CAN'T DO LIMITED OF TIME IN THE LDC HOURS OF OPERATION.
CAN WE, CARRIE'S GOT PROPOSED CHANGES UP THERE.
IS THERE A WAY TO PUT IT ON THE OTHER SCREEN? I GUESS I WOULD ASK THE, UM, CITY ATTORNEY TO WEIGH IN ON WHETHER WE CAN INCLUDE HOURS OF OPERATION, OPERATION IN THE LDC MM-HMM
IS IT CITY CODE OR LDC? WELL, WE HAVE AS, AS WE SAID, SO I WOULD'VE TO LOOK IT UP.
DO WE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE IN THE LDC SPECIFICALLY THAT IS LIMITED TO HOURS OF OPERATION OR, OR ARE THOSE ALL IN THE CITY CODE CONSTRUCTION'S? ALL, EVERYTHING I CAN THINK OF IS IN THE CITY CODE.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE MAY NEED TO CHECK ON.
YEAH, I CAN LOOK THAT UP REAL QUICKLY.
JUST LOOK AT THE, YOU KNOW, PURPOSE OF THE, SO THE CHANGES THAT I'VE HEARD, UM, WOULD BE ADDING IT AS, SO CHANGING IT TO CA INSTEAD OF A, WHICH WOULD BE CONDITIONALLY PERMITTED AS AN ACCESSORY USE.
UM, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THAT, I CHANGED THIS EIGHT C ONE.
'CAUSE IF IT'S COMING AS EXPLAIN CA I'M NOT FAMILIAR.
OH, THAT'S THE CONDITIONALLY PERMITTED USE.
SO IT'D BE ADDED TO THE USE TABLE AS A CONDITIONALLY PERMITTED ACCESSORY USE.
BASICALLY, MEANING IT CAN'T BE THE PRI YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING ELSE ON THE PROPERTY THAT IS ACCESSORY TO, SO IT CAN'T BE THE ONLY THING ON THE PROPERTY.
SO YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE A HOUSE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A HOTEL, SOMETHING ELSE THERE.
SO THAT BYPASSES ME BUYING A LOT NEXT DOOR AND PUTTING A PICKLEBALL COURT ON IT.
IF THERE'S NO HOUSE ON IT, IF YOU COULD COMBINE THE LOT WITH YOUR LOT.
UM, BUT THEN IN CONJUNCTION WITH THAT, THIS EIGHT C ONE WHERE WE HAD THE, THAT THE DIRECTOR MAY REDUCE THE SETBACK IF IT'S COMING TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
IT'S JUST, WE'RE NOT GONNA SAY THE DIRECTOR CAN REDUCE SETBACKS.
SO THAT'S WHAT, JUST WHAT THIS CHANGES IS THAT THE SETBACK MAY BE REDUCED BASED ON THE FOLLOWING.
UM, THERE WAS THE CLARIFICATION, I FORGET WHO BROUGHT THAT UP.
UM, THE PRESENCE OF BUILDINGS ON THE PROPERTY BETWEEN THE COURT AND THE PROPERTY LINE FOR WHICH THE SETBACK REDUCTION IS REQUESTED, JUST TO CLARIFY THAT MM-HMM
UM, AND THEN TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT LIGHTING OF GORTS PROHIBITED IS PROHIBITED.
AND THEN IF WE CAN ADD HOURS OF OPERATION, IT WOULD GO HERE.
YOU'RE LIKE, WE REALLY NEED TO DO THAT
I I HEARD SUN UP TO SUN, YOU KNOW, SUNRISE TO SUNSET.
I, SO JUST, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO TELL ME WHAT YOU WANT IN THERE.
CAN YOU DO SOMETHING LIKE SEVEN TO FIVE, TWO HOURS AFTER, AFTER SUNRISE UNTIL SUNSET? THAT WAY WHEN THE SUN COMES UP AT FIVE 30 IN THE MORNING ON JUNE 21ST, THAT YOU DON'T PLAY PICKLEBALL TILL SEVEN 30.
I SAW A LOT OF EIGHT TO EIGHTS YEAH.
IN THE ONES THAT I WAS READING.
AND THEN IF IT GETS DARK EARLIER, THAT CUTS OFF THE BACK END.
MADAM CHAIRMAN, IF I COULD WEIGH IN.
UM, AS FAR AS USING HOURLY COMPARED TO SUNUP OR SUNDOWN MM-HMM
THAT'LL BE A MORE OF A, A PROBLEM FOR ENFORCEMENT, I THINK.
UM, SO THAT, I THINK SETTING A A TIME, IF YOU WERE GONNA DO SO MM-HMM
I THINK, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I SAW IN A LOT OF THE YEAH.
AND THEN WHEN SUN SETS IT LIKE, YOU KNOW, SIX, YOU KNOW, THAT HELPS, HELPS THEN HELPS.
IF IT DOESN'T HOLD WATER LEGALLY, THEN IT DOESN'T HOLD WATER.
UH, I I THINK THAT YOU, YOU CAN PUT HOURS OF RESTRICTION ON THERE, UM, IN A LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, UH, YOU'D BE ABLE TO PUT HOURS OF RESTRICTION ON A BUSINESS.
FOR INSTANCE, YOU KNOW, MARIJUANA DISPENSARY, ADULT ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS.
AND I, I LOOK BACK TO THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
THE PURPOSE OF THE CODE, UM, IS, UH, TO PROMOTE THE PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE BY PROVIDING APPROPRIATE AND REASONABLE CONTROLS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT AND USE OF LAND.
SO A TIME IS SIMPLY A, A CONTROL THAT YOU'RE PLACING ON THIS, UH, YOU KNOW, THE USE OF THE SPORT COURT.
COULD I ASK A QUESTION ABOUT THAT? UM, COULD IT JUST BE, COULD IT BE LEFT TO THE DISCRETION OF THE, UH, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT? BECAUSE WHAT MIGHT BE OKAY FOR LOS RETOS MIGHT NOT BE OKAY IN A COMMERCIAL SETTING IN A, IN A MIGHT NOT BE OKAY FOR NEIGHBORHOOD, A RESIDENTIAL SETTING NEIGHBORHOOD.
WELL, DON'T WE THINK THE TIME LIMIT SHOULD BE APPLICABLE TO ALL, EVEN IF THEY MEET THE SETBACKS OR NO? SO IF THEY'RE GETTING A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, ALL OF IT.
SO WE COULD PUT 8:00 AM TO 8:00 PM OR AS MODIFIED BY THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION THROUGH A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
[01:30:03]
SO HYPOTHETICALLY, THAT WOULDN'T MATTER FOR LAS SDOS, RIGHT? OH YEAH.
IF YOU WANTED IT TO, WE COULD REARRANGE IT.
PUT IT IN A DIFFERENT SECTION, YOU MEAN? YEAH.
SO YEAH, SO MOVING THIS, MOVING THAT HOURS OF OPERATION OUT OF THE THINGS THAT ONLY APPLY TO SINGLE FAMILY ZONES.
UM, SO COURTS, ANY COURT WOULD BE 8:00 AM TO 8:00 PM OR WAS MODIFIED BY THE COMMISSION THROUGH A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, WHICH LEAVES THE ADDITIONAL RESTRICTIONS FOR SINGLE FAMILY ZONES.
UM, AGAIN, THIS FIRST ONE WOULD BE TO ALLOW HOAS TO PROVIDE LIGHTING OR MORE THAN ONE COURT ON, UM, ONE THAT THEY'RE BUILDING FOR THE COMMUNITY MM-HMM
UM, BUT THEN MAXIMUM OF ONE COURT PER SINGLE FAMILY PROPERTY AND NO TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT LIGHTING.
ANY OTHER POTENTIAL MODIFICATIONS DOWN HERE, GEORGE? NO.
I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION PAGE FIVE OF YOUR, I THINK IT IS.
UM, CAN I JUST REFERENCE AS AMENDED? YES.
I'M MOVED TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF CASE NUMBER PZ 25 DASH 0 0 0 1 LDC REVISIONS, PRIVATE SUPPORT COURTS CONSISTENT WITH THE APPROVAL CRITERIA IN SECTION 8.64 OF THE LDC AS MODIFIED.
AND JUST BRIEFLY, CAN YOU EXPLAIN YOUR NO VOTE? SURE.
I THINK I DID, BUT, UM, I THINK THIS HAS SOME UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES AND FEELS ANTI-FAMILY TO ME.
UM, AND I HOPE THAT WITH TIME IT'S REFINED TO MAKE SURE THAT NO ONE, UH, BESIDES THE GIANT PROPERTY OWNERS CAN ACCESS SPORT IN THIS WAY.
WE'LL GO ON TO CLOSE THE, THIS, UM, AGENDA ITEM AND GO
[6. FUTURE MEETING DATES AND AGENDA ITEMS ]
ON TO NUMBER SIX, FUTURE MEETING DATES AND AGENDA ITEMS. UM, JUST FOR THE PUBLIC'S KNOWLEDGE, IT'S NOT A PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, BUT THIS HAS BEEN TENTATIVELY SCHEDULED, UM, FOR COUNSEL.WE WILL CONFIRM THAT AND POSTED ON THE WEBSITE WITH THE CLERK'S OFFICE NOW THAT WE HAVE A RECOMMENDATION FROM YOU.
UM, AS FAR AS YOUR FUTURE MEETINGS, WE DO NOT HAVE A MEETING ON APRIL 1ST.
AND THAT'S NO JOKE, HUH? THAT'S STEVE SAID THE EXACT SAME THING EARLIER TODAY.
UM, ON APRIL 15TH, WE ARE TENTATIVELY TEXT DAY TEXT, I MEAN ALL KINDS OF EXCITING THINGS COINCIDING WITH P AND Z MEETINGS IN APRIL.
UM, WE ARE TENTATIVELY PLANNING ON HAVING A WORK SESSION ON THE WESTERN GATEWAY MASTER PLAN.
UM, THE HOPE FOR THAT IS THAT WE WOULD GET, UM, THE DRAFT OF THE MASTER PLAN, UM, OR HOPING A COUPLE WEEKS IN ADVANCE OF THE MEETING AND SO THAT IT WOULD BE AVAILABLE FOR PUBLIC REVIEW FOR, WE'RE HOPING ABOUT TWO WEEKS GOING INTO THE MEETING.
AND SO DEPENDING ON WHEN WE GET THAT DRAFT, WE MAY HAVE TO ADJUST THAT DATE.
UM, BUT THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE TALKED, UM, WITH OUR CONSULTANTS ABOUT, AND WE'RE HOPING THAT WE CAN MAKE THAT.
BUT THAT IS KIND OF THE TENTATIVE PLAN FOR THAT APRIL 15TH MEETING THAT OKAY.
UM, SOMETIME DURING THAT WEEK OF APRIL 1ST WE'D BE, WE'D GET A DRAFT, BE ABLE TO POST IT ONLINE, HAVE THE PUBLIC, AND OBVIOUSLY YOU AS THE COMMISSION, TAKE A COUPLE WEEKS TO REVIEW IT, COLLECT COMMENTS, AND THEN DO A WORK SESSION WITH YOU ON THE 15TH.
TERRY, WOULD THAT BE STAFF AND CONSULTANT LED? YEAH.
AND IF, UM, I DON'T IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR ANY KIND OF, IF YOU NEED TO, LIKE, YOU COULD PLAN A SITE VISIT OUT THERE IF YOU WANNA GO AND LOOK AROUND AT SOME OF THOSE AREAS TOO.
[01:35:01]
NOT GETTING A LOT OF EXCITEMENT TOWARDS THAT, I DON'T THINK.YEAH, I DON'T THINK WE NEED A SITE VISIT.
WELL, I THINK IT'D BE HARD TOO, RIGHT? BECAUSE WE ALREADY DID THAT, THE ONE SITE VISIT, BUT IF WE LOOK AT SOME OF THOSE THINGS THAT ARE ON THE FARTHER SIDE OF THE SITE, WE REALLY, WE'RE NOT AT A PLACE FOR MOUNTAIN CLIMBING.
CAN I ASK A QUESTION? UM, SO YOU'RE NOT ANTICIPATING A MEETING FOR THE PUBLIC, YOU'RE ANTICIPATING THERE BEING ABLE TO GIVE INPUT, BUT JUST ELECTRONICALLY? UM, SO WE'RE HOPING THAT WE'D BE ABLE TO HAVE MAYBE SOME PUBLIC, UM, SOME PLACES WHERE THEY CAN GO AND LOOK AT IT IN PERSON, NOT NECESSARILY ONLINE.
OBVIOUSLY WE WOULD HAVE SOME COPIES AT OUR OFFICE, UM, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY AT THE LIBRARY OR, YOU KNOW, HAVE, HAVE DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES OTHER THAN JUST THE WEBSITE.
WE WOULD ANTICIPATE A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL USE THE WEBSITE.
I'M ANTICIPATING THEY'RE GONNA SHOW UP AT OUR WORK SESSION IF THEY DON'T HAVE A PUBLIC MEETING,
SO, BUT YEAH, RATHER THAN DOING A FULL PUBLIC MEETING LIKE WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST, WE WANTED TO JUST GIVE PEOPLE, BUT THIS IS WORK SESSION.
FOR STAGE ONE, WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS.
THE, THE CHAIR CAN ALLOW PUBLIC COMMENT.
'CAUSE I THINK IT WOULD BE MM-HMM
THE HOPE WOULD BE THAT WE'D GET A PUBLIC COMMENTS LEADING INTO THAT, OBVIOUSLY IF YOU CHOOSE TO DURING THAT MEETING.
BUT YEAH, IT WOULD, NO, NO DECISIONS BEING MADE THAT NIGHT, JUST THAT FIRST WORK SESSION.
WE'LL, WHAT'S COMING DOWN AFTER THAT? UM, MAY AND JUNE.
MAY AND JUNE, WE WILL LIKE, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL, DEPENDING ON WHAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'LL BE MORE WESTERN GATEWAY STUFF AND WE HAVE A COUPLE OTHER PROJECTS KIND OF IN THE WORKS.
YOU'RE WELCOME TO LOOK AT SEDONA AZ.GOV/PROJECTS
BUT, UM, WE'RE NOT, I DON'T THINK WE'RE QUITE READY TO COMMIT TO DATES FOR ANYTHING ELSE YET RIGHT NOW.
AND YEAH, SO IF YOU'RE GONNA BE OUT OF TOWN OR, OR SOMETHING, PLEASE WE NEED TO TALK, LET ME KNOW.
ESPECIALLY WITH SOME OF THE WESTERN GATEWAY STUFF, UM, WE DON'T WANNA OVERLOAD YOU WITH SOME OF THOSE MEETINGS AND SO, BUT IF WE AREN'T GONNA HAVE A QUORUM MM-HMM
WE'LL NEED TO MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENTS.
AND WHEN DO WE ANTICIPATE IF YOU CHOOSE A NEW COMMISSIONER? THEM TO START BEFORE APRIL 15TH? YEAH.
PROBABLY JUST, I'M THINKING THE SECOND MEETING, UM, COUNCIL MEETING IN APRIL.
SO THAT WOULD BE, IT'S TOO SOON TO GET IT.
SO THAT WOULD BE AFTER THE APRIL 15TH WORK SESSION.
I WOULD ANTICIPATE THAT IF THERE IS SOMEONE SELECTED ON APRIL 1ST, THEY WOULD KNOW BY APRIL 15TH.
AND SO EVEN IF THEY CAN'T PARTICIPATE AS A COMMISSIONER, THEY WOULD OBVIOUSLY BE ABLE TO, TO COME AND LISTEN IN AND YEAH.
IT HAS TO GO TO COUNCIL AND WE CAN'T MAKE THE FIRST COUNCIL MEETING.
BUT I WOULD ANTICIPATE THE PERSON YOU SELECT WOULD BE AWARE THAT THEY ARE BEING RECOMMENDED AND COULD AT LEAST SIT IN THE AUDIENCE AND SIT THROUGH THE MEETING, WHICH MEANS THAT GEORGE HAS ONE MORE MEETING IF HE'S IN TOWN, IF HE SO IS SO INCLINED.
LET'S ADJOURN THIS MEETING AT SIX 10.