* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. SOMETIMES. [00:00:01] SO I FEEL LIKE IT'S MORE HERE. I DUNNO IF IT'S [1. CALL TO ORDER, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIENCE, ROLL CALL ] MORE THIS WAY OR THIS WAY. I'D LIKE TO CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER. THIS IS THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION. IT'S TUESDAY, APRIL 15TH, 2015 AT FOUR 30. I'LL RISE PLEASE FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO FLAG UNITED STATES, AMERICA, AND, AND TO REPUBLIC APPROACH STANDS NATION, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. ROLL CALL PLEASE. CHAIR LEVIN HERE. VICE CHAIR HOSNI. HERE. COMMISSIONER MARTIN. HERE. COMMISSIONER WHEEL HERE. COMMISSIONER HURST HERE. AND COMMISSIONER GSKI HERE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. WE HAVE ONE VACANCY AND IF, UH, THE AUDIENCE, ALL OF YOU WOULD JUST CHECK YOUR PHONES AND TURN THEM OFF IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY. AND WE'LL GO ON TO AGENDA [2. ANNOUNCEMENTS & SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY COMMISSIONERS & STAFF] ITEM NUMBER TWO, ANNOUNCEMENTS AND SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF COMMISSION. I HAVE TWO. UH, WE INTERVIEWED TWO CANDIDATES AND THE COUNCIL WILL BE APPOINTING TWO NEW CAN, UH, COMMISSIONERS FOR THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, ONE EFFECTIVE IN UH, APRIL. HIS NAME'S ROB SMITH. HE'S IN THE AUDIENCE HE'S ALREADY ATTENDING AND THE OTHER IS HARMONY WALKER, WHO WILL, UH, TAKE OFFICE IN NOVEMBER WHEN I LEAVE. SO WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE THESE TWO. UH, ROB IS A RETIRED ARCHITECT AND HARMONY HAS A BACKGROUND IN CONSTRUCTION. MANAGEMENT IS A FULL-TIME MOM NOW. AND THE OTHER ANNOUNCEMENT I WANNA MAKE WITH THE DIFFERENT HAT IS THAT THE SEDONA HISTORICAL SOCIETY IN THE HISTOR HERITAGE MUSEUM ARE HOSTING A, UH, HIS HISTORIC PRESERVATION MONTH, UH, ACTIVITY ON MAY 3RD. UH, IN CELEBRATION OF, UH, HISTORIC PRESERVATION MONTH, THEY'RE INVITING THE OWNERS OF, EXCUSE ME, OF LOCALLY LANDMARK, UH, HISTORIC LANDMARK PROPERTIES AND OR THOSE THAT ARE ON THE NATIONAL, UH, REGISTER TO, UM, COME AND TALK ABOUT THEIR PROPERTIES AND THEY'LL HAVE, UM, POSTERS UP AND, UH, DESCRIPTIONS OF THESE AND PHOTOGRAPHS. SO IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN LEARNING MORE ABOUT THE HERITAGE OF THE COMMUNITY, THAT EVENT WILL BE ON MAY 3RD FROM FOUR TO SIXTH AT THE MUSEUM. AND THAT'S IT FOR ME. OKAY, WE'LL CLOSE, UM, STAFF. OKAY. ALRIGHT, WE'LL CLOSE THAT, UH, AGENDA ITEM AND MOVE ON TO AGENDA [3. APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES] ITEM NUMBER THREE, APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES. MARCH 18TH, 2025. NO, UH, CORRECTIONS. THEY'LL STAND APPROVED AND WE'LL CLOSE THAT ITEM. NEXT IS, UH, PUBLIC FORUM NUMBER FOUR. I'LL READ THIS. THIS IS THE TIME FOR THE PUBLIC TO COMMENT ON MATTERS NOT LISTED ON THE AGENDA. THE COMMISSION MAY NOT DISCUSS ITEMS THAT ARE NOT SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED ON THE AGENDA PURSUANT TO A RS SECTION 38 DASH 4 3 1 0.018. ACTION TAKEN AS A RESULT OF PUBLIC COMMENT, WILL BE LIMITED TO DIRECTING STAFF TO STUDY THE MATTER, RESPONDING TO CRITICISM OR SCHEDULING THE MATTER FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION AND DECISION AT A LATER DATE. I DON'T BELIEVE I HAVE ANY CARDS FOR THIS ITEM. OKAY, SO WE'LL CLOSE THAT ITEM AND [5. Discussion/Possible Direction regarding the Western Gateway Master Plan. ] MOVE ON TO THE, UM, PRIMARY AGENDA, DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE DIRECTION REGARDING THE WESTERN GATEWAY MASTER PLAN. AND FOR, UM, FOR THE PURPOSE OF THE PUBLIC, I WANTED TO OUTLINE HOW THIS, UH, PUBLIC MEETING WOULD BE CONDUCTED. THE CONSULTANT IS HERE WITH US TODAY AND STAFF, BOTH OF WHOM, UH, WORKED ON, ON THIS PROPOSAL. AND THEY'RE GONNA, UM, PROVIDE A PRESENTATION AND THEN THE COMMISSION WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK QUESTIONS FOR CLARIFICATION OR TO MAKE COMMENTS. AND THEN, UM, I WILL OPEN UP THE MEETING FOR, UM, PUBLIC COMMENT. AND AT THAT TIME YOU'LL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK AT THE, UH, PODIUM FOR THREE MINUTES. AND, UM, WE, UH, DON'T RESPOND. THE COMMISSION DOESN'T RESPOND TO ANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, BUT THEY ARE PART OF OUR PERMANENT RECORD. SO WE'LL, WE'LL DO THOSE AND, UH, YOU'LL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS, UH, YOUR CONCERNS AND AND INTERESTS ABOUT THAT PROPOSAL. SO I'LL TURN IT OVER TO CARRIE. OKAY, THANK YOU. CHAIR COMMISSION. UM, [00:05:01] I AM JUST GOING TO GIVE A BRIEF INTRODUCTION AND THEN I'LL TURN IT OVER TO JAY AND JEFF. SO JAY HICKS AND JEFF NER AT THE TABLE WITH ME. THEY, UH, ARE WITH DIG STUDIOS AND THEY HAVE BEEN THE CITY'S CONSULTANT ON THIS PROJECT. WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THEM SINCE LAST FALL TO DEVELOP A MASTER PLAN FOR THE WESTERN GATEWAY PROPERTY THAT THE CITY OWNS. THE, THE PROCESS THAT THEY'LL GO INTO A LITTLE MORE DETAIL HAS INVOLVED SOME PUBLIC MEETINGS, SOME COMMUNITY OUTREACH AND MEETINGS WITH STAKEHOLDERS, UM, AND A LOT OF ON THE GROUND WORK AND FORMULATING THE PLANS TO GET TO WHERE WE ARE TONIGHT. SO TONIGHT IS A WORK SESSION. IT IS NOT THE FINAL PUBLIC HEARING. THIS IS NOT THE LAST TIME YOU WILL SEE THIS PROPOSAL. UM, AND IT IS NOT THE FULL EXTENT OF WHAT YOU WILL EVENTUALLY SEE. THERE IS MORE TO COME, BUT, UM, WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT IS WHERE WE ARE IN THE PROCESS AND WE'RE LOOKING FOR FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMISSION AND THE PUBLIC TO DETERMINE IF WE ARE GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND WHAT, UM, WHAT THE COMMISSION WOULD LIKE TO SEE AS WE FURTHER DEVELOP THIS PLAN. SO WITH THAT, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO JAY, WHO WILL WALK YOU THROUGH THE PROJECT. THANK YOU KERRY. UH, MY NAME IS JAY HICKS. I'M A SENIOR PARTNER WITH DIG STUDIO AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING US TONIGHT. UH, WE HAVE A PRESENTATION. I'LL TRY TO MAKE IT AS BRIEF AS POSSIBLE, BUT WE ALSO WANNA BE FAIRLY COMPREHENSIVE. WE HAVE A COUPLE OTHER MEETINGS. WE ACTUALLY HAD TWO DIFFERENT WORK SESSIONS THAT I WANTED TO KIND OF GO THROUGH WITH YOU AND ALSO SOME PUBLIC COMMENT BEFORE WE ACTUALLY GET INTO THE PREFERRED, UM, BASICALLY THROUGH SORT OF THE PREFERRED ALTERNATIVE. SO WITH THAT, IS THIS THING READY TO GO? YEAH. ALRIGHT, PERFECT. HERE. ALRIGHT. NOT WORKING. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THAT'S GOOD THERE. OH YEAH, IT'S STILL LOCKED. OH, OKAY. THAT'S ALL RIGHT. I MIGHT JUST NEED TO DRIVE IT. ALRIGHT. SO, UM, OBVIOUSLY WE'VE WORKED ON THIS NOW FOR ABOUT SIX MONTHS OR SO ALONG WITH THE CITY STAFF AND WE'VE ACTUALLY, I THINK, MADE QUITE A BIT OF PROGRESS TRYING TO GO THROUGH THE DIFFERENT ITEMS. UM, AND LET ME GO AHEAD AND KIND GO AHEAD AND JUST TAKE CARE OF IT. YEAH. ALRIGHT, PERFECT. THANKS. BUT TONIGHT WE HAVE ABOUT, UH, SIX OR SEVEN DIFFERENT ITEMS WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH. AND WHAT MY THOUGHT WAS IS ACTUALLY GO THROUGH EACH ONE OF THESE, UM, AREAS OF KIND OF FOCUS AND IF YOU WANT TO ASK QUESTIONS AT THAT POINT. OTHERWISE, THERE'S ALL SOME INFORMATION HERE THAT'S KIND OF PROBABLY BEING STORED UP THAT MAY BE TOO MUCH TO ANSWER AT THE VERY, OR ASK, ASK QUESTIONS AT THE VERY END. SO I'LL JUST PROMPT YOU, UH, BASICALLY AT THE END OF EACH ONE OF THE SECTIONS IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AT ALL. SO OBVIOUSLY THE STARTING POINT AND WHAT OUR BASIS IS REALLY ALL ABOUT THE COMMUNITY FOCUS PLAN. SO THIS WAS ALL ABOUT HAVING A BASIS OF NOT ONLY JUST THIS SITE, BUT HOW IT ACTUALLY FITS INTO EVERYTHING ELSE. SO I, WELL, I SEE YOU'RE LOOKING STRAIGHT THIS WAY OVER MY SHOULDER HERE. OH, THAT'S NICE. PERFECT. BUT REALLY IT'S ALL ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE NEED FOR, UH, KIND OF AN OVERALL COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOR THIS AREA AND THAT'S WHAT THE COMMUNITY FOCUS PLAN REALLY DID. SO THIS IS JUST A PIECE OF THAT. AND SO PART OF IT WILL BE TONIGHT WILL BE THAT PART, BUT JUST REMEMBER IT IS A PART, UH, THAT DOESN'T HAVE ALL THE COMPONENTS OF THE COMMUNITY FOCUS PLANS PLANNED, BASICALLY SPECIFIC PLANNED IN THIS AREA. EXACTLY. THE AREA OVERALL, THE COMMUNITY FOCUS PLAN IS LITERALLY A FAIRLY LARGE AREA. IT INCLUDES, YOU KNOW, THE HOTELS THAT ALREADY EXIST, THE TIMESHARE AREAS, EVEN NORTHERN ARIZONA HEALTH. SO IT IS A FAIRLY LARGE SECTION ALONG WITH THE HIGH SCHOOL AND THE 41 ACRES. I THINK YOU'RE PROBABLY ALREADY FAMILIAR WITH IT. IT'S USED TO BE THE CULTURAL PARK. UM, AND RIGHT NOW, UH, THE REASON WHY THE CITY HAD PURCHASED IT, THEY REALLY WEREN'T GETTING THE TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT OR AT LEAST THINGS THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE TO THE COMMUNITY. AND SO IN UH, 2022 YOU PURCHASED THE PROPERTY, THE CITY PURCHASED THE PROPERTY. AND SO THAT'S WHAT STARTED THIS WHOLE PROCESS OF GOING THROUGH A COMMUNITY BASED PLAN. SO THAT'S WHAT WE'LL BE GOING ABOUT TODAY. COMMUNITY INPUT, UH, LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE, WE'VE HAD TWO WORKSHOPS AND I'LL GO THROUGH EACH ONE OF THOSE ALONG WITH A COUPLE SURVEYS. AND WE ALSO CONCLUDED EVEN I THINK WE ENDED UP COMMENTS, EVEN PULLED THE COMMENTS OFF EVEN TODAY. SO WE HAVE RELATIVELY, UH, CURRENT COMMENTS EVEN ON THE PREFERRED PLAN AS OF TODAY. BUT WE DID START OUT WHAT WE ALWAYS CALL SORT OF THE BUBBLE DIAGRAM AND A DOT EXERCISE. UH, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ATTENDED OR NOT THE FIRST, UH, BASICALLY WORKSHOP, BUT IT WAS WAY, THAT WAS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I WAS GONNA HAVE, JAY, IS I'D BE INTERESTED IF YOU KNEW BALLPARK ABOUT HOW MANY PEOPLE ATTENDED EACH EVENT AND VOTED. SO WE HAD ABOUT, I THINK ONE, ONE THIRTY, A HUNDRED THIRTY. YES. AND IT WAS ACTUALLY VERY WELL ATTENDED. AND THE WAY WE GET PEOPLE INVOLVED, AND I THINK EVERYBODY HAS DONE THE INFAMOUS KIND OF DOT PROCESS TO WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE DIFFERENT TYPES OF CHARACTER IMAGES AND, AND BASICALLY WHAT WE DO IS JUST HAVE PEOPLE LOOK AT THOSE AND ALSO COMMENT ON THINGS THAT ACTUALLY APPEAL TO THEM OR NOT APPEAL TO 'EM AND THEY ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO DO [00:10:01] THAT. BUT THE ONE THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF STOCK IN IS THE ABILITY TO BASICALLY PUT TOGETHER A NUMBER OF USES AND TRY TO SCALE THOSE USES AND THEN BE ABLE TO HAVE A PLAN THAT YOU GIVE EACH ONE OF THE, UH, RESIDENTS. WE HAD 80, 83 OF THESE PLANS OVERALL PREPARED. AND WHAT IT IS WE SIZE THESE BASED ON HOW MUCH AREA IT ACTUALLY TAKES THE PLAN. SO IF YOU'RE DEALING WITH 41 ACRES, YOU'RE GONNA BE LIMITED ON HOW MANY THINGS YOU CAN ACTUALLY PUT ON. AND SO WE HAD SOME PEOPLE THAT, UH, BASICALLY MUCH LIKE THIS ONE THAT WAS PROBABLY VERY WELL THOUGHTFULLY PUT OUT. WE HAD A FEW THAT JUST HAD ONE MAJOR USE AND OTHERS THAT JUST, THERE'S NO, I COULD PUT THAT MUCH ON THERE . BUT ANYWAY, SO WE CAME OUT AND WHAT REALLY STARTED RE UH, COMING TO THE TOP WAS BASICALLY THE COMMUNITY PARK. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE INTERESTED IN THE COMMUNITY PARK ASPECT, UH, A CITY PLAZA. AND WHEN WE SAY CITY PLAZA, WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR IS SOME PLACE THE COMMUNITY COULD GATHER. AND WE'VE HEARD THAT MORE AND MORE, UH, AS WE EVEN WENT THROUGH OUR SECOND WORKSHOP AND EVEN THROUGH A LOT OF THE COMMENTS, IT REALLY WAS ALL ABOUT A PLACE FOR THE COMMUNITY VERSUS TOURISM. THEY FELT IT PROBABLY HAVE A FEW, YOU KNOW, RESTAURANTS OR SHOPS, A COMMUNITY CENTER, WHICH WAS ALSO BEING TALKED ABOUT A LITTLE BIT AS REC CENTER. WE ACTUALLY CLARIFIED THAT LATER IN THE, IN THE, UH, SURVEYS. COMMUNITY CENTER AND REC CENTER TEND TO BE SOME TYPES, UH, TALKED ABOUT IN THE SAME LIGHT, BUT THEY ARE KIND OF DIFFERENT. ONE BEING VERY MUCH REC ASSOCIATED. UH, THE OTHER ONES COULD ACTUALLY BE MORE LIKE CLASSROOM SPACE. THEY ALSO IDENTIFIED A LOT OF, UH, BASICALLY THE CITIZENS, UH, BASICALLY IDENTIFIED TOWN HOMES, APARTMENTS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY CAME OUT OF IT WAS THEY REALLY DIDN'T WANT THE 320, UH, UNIT APARTMENT COMPLEXES, THE MEGA COMPLEXES, THEY TEND TO BASICALLY GO TOWARD THE 70 TO ONE 20. SO A LITTLE BIT SMALLER. SOME OF 'EM ACTUALLY WENT UP TO 200. AND THEN AGAIN, JUST ENOUGH RESTAURANT OR SHOP SPACE FOR, UH, BASICALLY SUPPORTING THE NEED. THE SURVEY, UH, WE HAD, I CAN'T REMEMBER HOW MANY, YOU REMEMBER HOW MANY WE HAD. IT WAS LIKE 900 OR IS THAT THE ONE THAT WE HAD? 900? IT WAS ABOUT 950, UH, PLUS. SO JUST UNDER A THOUSAND. ALRIGHT. SORRY. HOPEFULLY I DON'T LOSE MY VOICE HERE. UM, BUT REALLY WHAT CAME OUT OF IT WAS REALLY A PARK. UH, IT WAS REALLY A REALLY OPEN SPACE, WALKING PATHS. ALSO THE AMPHITHEATER, THERE WAS, UH, QUITE A FEW COMMENTS THAT REALLY LOOKED AT AMPHITHEATER ANYWHERE FROM 2000 UP TO 5,000. AND WE'LL SEE THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE NARROWED DOWN AS WE GO THROUGH SOME OF THE OTHER PROCESSES. SO SOME OF THOSE KIND OF ITEMS ACTUALLY CAME UP. UH, THE APARTMENTS AS FAR AS HOUSING, THEY SAW A MIX OF HOUSING, NOT JUST ONE PARTICULAR TYPE. AND EVEN OUR CONVERSATION WITH COUNCIL, UH, IT COULD BE A FOR SALE OR FOR RENT. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ONE OR THE OTHER. IT COULD ACTUALLY BE BOTH. AND THEN ALSO A FOCUS ON WORKFORCE HOUSING, AFFORDABLE HOUSING, BUT MIXED INCOME WITH BASICALLY MIXED, UH, BASICALLY HOUSING OPTIONS THEMSELVES. ALSO THE COMMERCIAL, NOT A WHOLE LOT ON COMMERCIAL OTHER THAN JUST REALLY MORE LOCALLY SERVING. NOT SO MUCH TOURIST DRIVEN, BUT MOSTLY JUST LOCALLY SERVING. BUT IT ALSO COULD BE ANYTHING FROM RESTAURANTS TO CONVENIENCE AND EVEN, YOU KNOW, SMALL MUSEUMS OR SA UH, SMALL SHOPS, THAT TYPE OF THING. THERE WAS ALSO, UH, HIGHLIGHTED AS POSSIBLY A TRANSIT STOP. UH, AGAIN, IT'S MORE IF YOU'RE PUTTING IN A CONCENTRATION OF HOUSING, YOU ALSO HAVE A CONCENTRATION OF PEOPLE, UH, AND HAVING TRANSIT BE ABLE TO SERVE THAT POPULATION. AND THEN ALSO THERE WAS REALIZATION THAT OBVIOUSLY THE GATEWAY, UH, TRAILHEAD IS ALSO A VERY POPULAR DESTINATION TOO. SO THE IDEA IS TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THIS THING IS REALLY LOCALLY SERVING. SURVEY TWO, UH, THIS STARTED NARROWING DOWN JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE AND THIS BECAME A LOT MORE SPECIFIC 'CAUSE WE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF, UM, UH, KIND OF THINGS WE WANTED TO JUST ASK IN A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL. SO WE STARTED TALKING A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT CITY PARKS, OVERWHELMING HOME, EXCUSE ME, OVERWHELMINGLY THE PEOPLE REALLY LIKE PARKS OVERALL AND 82%. AND YOU'LL SEE THAT IN THE FINAL PLAN OR BASICALLY THE PREFERRED PLAN. SAME WAY WITH THE REC CENTER. UH, THE CONCERN ON THAT WAS COST. IT IS A COST IMPLICATION, BUT THE SAME TIME PEOPLE FELT THAT THAT WAS A NEED THAT WAS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY AND ALSO A COMMUNITY ASSET. THE AMPHITHEATER, EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS, UH, ONES THAT DIDN'T REALLY SUPPORT THE AMPHITHEATER, WHEN YOU STARTED SEEING KIND OF THE, THE COMMENTS COMING BACK, IT STARTED GOING INTO MORE OF THE THOUSAND TO 2000 RANGE VERSUS THE 5,000. AND SO WE STARTED SEEING, AGAIN, A LITTLE BIT NARROWING DOWN OF WHAT ACTUALLY COULD BE SUPPORTED. AND THEN TRAFFIC. WE ARE ALSO, AND THIS KIND OF REPEAT WHAT I JUST SAID A FEW MINUTES AGO ABOUT LITERALLY THE TRAFFIC, UH, THE TRANSIT, BEING ABLE TO MAKE SURE THIS IS A WELL CONNECTED COMMUNITY OVERALL. WE ALSO MET WITH A NUMBER OF STAKEHOLDERS. UH, WE'VE LISTED THEM UP HERE, BUT UH, SOME OF THE KEY IS BASICALLY US FOREST SERVICE. THEY CURRENTLY HAVE A CONCEPT PLAN ON HOW THEY'RE GOING TO ACTUALLY RESHAPE AND ACTUALLY ADD TO THE WESTERN GATEWAY TRAILHEAD. SO THAT'S ONGOING. WE ALSO HAD A CONVERSATIONS WITH, UH, SEDONA FIRE AND OTHERS THAT THROUGH HERE AND EVEN AS WE STARTED EVEN GOING TO MORE NUTS AND BOLTS, UM, ARIZONA [00:15:01] WATER, UH, EXCUSE ME, ARIZONA WATER. ARIZONA WATER, RIGHT. THANK YOU. UH, BASICALLY LOOKING FOR A TANK SITE. AND THAT WAS MAINLY TO KIND OF BALANCE OUT WHAT THEIR WATER SYSTEM IS TODAY. AND SO WE HAD A LOT OF GOOD CONVERSATIONS. SO SOME OF IT WAS VERY MUCH NUTS AND BOLTS INFRASTRUCTURE AND OTHERS WAS REALLY STARTING TO TALK MORE ABOUT THE OPPORTUNITIES THEY COULD HAVE, UH, BASICALLY AS A PARTNERSHIP. AND WITH THAT, I'LL PAUSE AND SEE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING THAT PROCESS. IT IS NOT REALLY A QUESTION. I DON'T, AND I DON'T KNOW, SINCE THIS IS A WORK SESSION AND WE'RE NOT ASKING QUESTIONS IN THE LATER HAVING DISCUSSION NECESSARILY, I DON'T KNOW. WELL, UH, I'M GONNA JUST GIVE, START GIVING OPINIONS . OKAY. UM, IF YOU COULD GO BACK TO THE UM, UH, REC CENTER ONE. OKAY. WHEN I LOOK AT THIS AND YOU SAID STRONG SUPPORT, 54% IS NOT A MANDATE TO ME. I MEAN THAT IS, UH, MORE THAN HALF, BUT IT'S NOT A MANDATE. AND THEN LOW SUPPORT FOR FUTURE CITY EXPENDITURES RESULTING IN ATTACKS, UM, 57% IS MORE SIGNIFICANT. THAT TELLS ME SOMETHING. UM, SO I, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY SOME OF THE WAY THESE ARE PHRASED IF THEY'RE MAKING THEIR WAY INTO THE FINAL PLAN, PERHAPS ANOTHER ROUND OF SURVEYS OR ANOTHER WAY TO REACH OUT BECAUSE I'M NOT REALLY SURE THAT MM-HMM . THAT THE NUMBER OF RESPONDERS TO THIS, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBER OF RESPONSES WERE, UM, REALLY GIVES THE FEEL OF THE COMMUNITY. I DON'T KNOW. AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE QUESTION. UH, PROBABLY THE WAY I WAS THINKING THROUGH THIS ON THE NEXT COMMENTS WE ACTUALLY RECEIVED DURING THE WORK SESSION NUMBER TWO STARTED, THOSE STARTED TO ACTUALLY REALLY FELL OUT MORE INTO THE SUPPORT OF THE REC CENTER. SO PART OF MY BRAIN DOESN'T STOP THERE, IT KEEPS GOING, BUT LIKE I SAID, WE CAN ACTUALLY UH, FLESH THESE OUT IN MORE DETAIL. BUT WHAT WE FOUND WAS, LIKE I SAID, THERE'S SOME SUPPORT ON BOTH. THEY ALWAYS SEEM TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A CAVEAT IF THERE'S AN EXPENSE INVOLVED MM-HMM . EVERY TIME. MM-HMM . AND THAT GOES ON WHETHER IT'S AMPHITHEATER OR REC CENTER PARK OR WHICHEVER. SO THAT'S IT. RIGHT? YEAH. THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENT. OTHERS. ALRIGHT, CONTINUE ON. JUST A LITTLE BIT OF SIDE CHARACTERISTICS. SO THIS IS ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS, THIS IS SORT OF THE NUTS AND BOLTS OF UNDERSTANDING THE PROPERTY ITSELF. UM, AS YOU CAN TELL, YOU'VE, I THINK YOU EVEN WALKED THE PROPERTY, I BELIEVE POSSIBLY THIS WEEK SOMETIME. IT'S UH, IT HAS A LOT OF TERRAIN, IT HAS SOME STEEP AREAS AND APPROXIMATELY ABOUT 10 ACRES IS ACTUALLY OVER 15% SLOPE. AND SO THOSE ARE AREAS THAT WE REALLY AVOID, AGAIN, JUST 'CAUSE OF SENSITIVITY. ALSO JUST VERY DIFFICULT TO BUILD AND VERY EXPENSIVE TO BUILD ON. AND SO WE REALLY HAVE STAYED AWAY FROM THOSE. BUT ALL IN ALL, ONLY ABOUT 27 OF THE 41 ACRES IS ACTUALLY DEEMED DEVELOPABLE. SO BY THE TIME WE ACTUALLY TAKE THE OPEN SPACE OUT IN OTHER ASPECTS AND BUFFERS, THAT'S ABOUT WHAT WE HAVE TO WORK WITH ABOUT 27 ACRES. JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF JUST THE ELEVATION CHANGE FROM BASICALLY GOING FROM 89 A BACK TO THE WEST OR BASICALLY, UH, TO THE NORTHWEST. THERE'S ABOUT A 50 FEET BELOW. AND ACTUALLY IT'S A LITTLE BIT ODD FROM THE STANDPOINT OF YOU SEE THIS LOW RIDGE LINE, THE GRADE ACTUALLY RISES UP A LITTLE BIT AND THEN DROPS BACK DOWN AGAIN. SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A HUMP AND THEN BACK DOWN. BUT THAT'S ONE OF THE AREAS THAT WE JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE VISIBILITY OF AREAS WERE. SO OBVIOUSLY THE TWO HIGH POINTS IN THE SOUTHWEST AND ALSO IN THE NORTHEAST CORNERS ARE THE MOST HIGHLY VISIBLE AREAS ON THE SITE ITSELF. THERE'S ALSO THE EXISTING MAKINGS OF A, UH, CIRCULATION SYSTEM ALREADY. OBVIOUSLY WE ALREADY HAVE A SIGNAL LIGHT, UH, THAT COMES OFF OF CULTURAL PARK PLACE. UM, THERE'S A QUASI ENTRY POINT WHERE YOU SEE WEST ACCESS POINT, IT'S REALLY MORE OF JUST A DRIVE CUT THAT'S REALLY NOT FORMALIZED. AND THEN CURRENTLY THE CULTURAL PARK PLACE DRIVE GOES ALL THE WAY UP TO THE WESTERN GATE TRAILHEAD RIGHT NOW, BUT IT'S ONLY PAVED TO ABOUT WHERE THE FIRST T INTERSECTION AND OBVIOUSLY RETURNS BACK OVER TO THE YBA PIKE COMMUNITY, UH, FBI COMMUNITY COLLEGE. SO WITH THAT, WE STARTED LOOKING AT A COUPLE THINGS AND THIS WAS JUST THE INITIAL FRAMEWORK. THIS IS BEFORE WE PUT ANY KIND OF A PROGRAM OR ANYTHING ELSE, BUT WHAT, YOU KNOW, KNOWING THE SENSITIVITY OF THE AREA ALONG ESPECIALLY, ESPECIALLY ALONG 89 A, WE STARTED LOOKING AT WHAT THE CHARACTER IS ALONG 89 A, WHICH IS TWO TO THREE STORIES TYPICALLY. AND THEN ONCE YOU MOVE BACK, WHAT THE INTENT WOULD BE IS AS YOU MOVE FURTHER INTO THE SITE OR NORTH INTO THE SITE, YOU COULD PROBABLY GO UP IN ELEVATION AS FAR AS, AS FAR AS A, UM, THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDINGS UP TO THREE OR FOUR STORIES AND STILL NOT HAVE A BIG IMPACT ON 89 A OBVIOUSLY WHERE YOU HAD THE BIGGEST IMPACT IS WHERE YOU SEE THE RIDGE LINES AND THAT'S [00:20:01] WHY YOU START SEEING THE AREAS IN BLUE RIGHT AT THE VERY NORTH. UH, IT'S BASICALLY THE SOUTHWEST CORNER, ONE TO TWO STORY, MAYBE TWO STORY THREE AT THE MOST. AND THEN AT THE VERY HIGH POINT IN THE NORTHEAST IS PROBABLY TWO TO THREE STORIES. AGAIN, THOSE ARE ON YOUR HIGH POINTS. ALRIGHT, ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT PORTION OF IT? IT'S JUST SORT OF AN UNDERSTANDING, LIKE I SAID, IF YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN ON SITE, YOU PROBABLY HAVE A GOOD, PRETTY GOOD FEEL FOR WHAT THIS FEELS LIKE ALREADY. SO. ALRIGHT, SO THE SITE SCENARIOS, THIS WAS OUR LAST WORKSHOP NUMBER TWO. SO WE PRESENTED FOUR DIFFERENT WORK, UH, FOUR DIFFERENT ONES. I WON'T GO INTO ALL FOUR. UH, BUT THE FIRST ONE, JUST TO GIVE YOU OVERVIEW, IT HAD, UM, AND I ALWAYS CALL IT WHAT THE CAPACITY, THE HOUSING CAPACITY OF A SITE COULD BE. AND IT WAS UPWARDS ALMOST 700 UNITS, BUT IT ALSO TOOK A SEVEN, BASICALLY A SEVEN STORY TOWER OR APARTMENTS TO ACTUALLY ACHIEVE THAT. UM, IT'S NEEDLESS TO SAY PEOPLE WEREN'T TOO CRAZY ABOUT THAT ONE AND THE SAME, UH, BASICALLY WHEN WE HAD THE NUMBER FOUR, WHICH PERFORMANCE VENUE, AND THAT WAS SIZE AT A 5,000 SEAT, UH, VENUE THAT ALSO INCLUDE THE PARKING. SO OBVIOUSLY IT TOOK UP A LOT OF THE SPACE AND IT ALSO DIDN'T FARE WELL IN THE, IN BASICALLY THE VOTING EITHER. SO THE TWO THAT REALLY KIND OF, UH, CAME OUT WERE REALLY THE VILLAGE CONCEPT AND THE RESIDENTIAL AND RECREATION. AND WHAT WE'LL SHOW YOU IS THEY HAVE VERY SIMILAR, UM, KIND OF MIX OF HOUSING. WE TRIED TO GET AT LEAST THREE KIND OF HOUSING WITHIN EACH ONE. AND THEN THEY ALSO, ONE REALLY FOCUSES ON A REC CENTER AND ONE FOCUSES ON OPEN SPACE. BUT THIS WAS THE BASICALLY THE VOTING RESULTS THAT WE HAD. SO WE GAVE ALL THE PEOPLE WITHIN, UH, BASICALLY WITHIN THE, UH, THE WORKSHOP, ONE TOKEN, ONE GREEN, ONE RED. WE ASKED THEM TO PLACE WHICH ONES THEY LIKED AND WHICH ONE THEY, THEY THOUGHT WOULDN'T, UM, ADD TO THE COMMUNITY AS MUCH AS THE OTHER TWO. AND SO THE TWO CENTER ONES ARE THE ONES THAT REALLY ROSE TO THE TOP. AND JUST AS AN OVERVIEW, CAN YOU GO BACK TO THAT SLIDE? OH YEAH, YOU BET. I DON'T THINK WE GOT QUITE, OH, SORRY. UHHUH. . OKAY, THANK YOU. SO THE TWO OF THE ROWS TO THE TOP WAS, UH, THE VILLAGE CONCEPT. THEY HAD VERY SIMILAR, UH, NUMBERS OF UNITS. THEY WERE ALL IN PROBABLY THE FOUR 50 TO FOUR 80 RANGE. UH, THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE WAS THIS ONE ACTUALLY HAD A COMMUNITY PARK AND PLAZA, UH, ALONG WITH A PARKING GARAGE JUST FOR ADDITIONAL PARKING FOR TRAILHEAD AND TRANSIT AND THEN SOME, A LITTLE BIT MORE OF THE, THE LOWER EL OR BASICALLY THE UH, ONE TO TWO STORY APARTMENTS. SO THAT WAS THE BIGGEST TAKEAWAY ON THIS ONE WAS REALLY ABOUT THE COMMUNITY PARK AND PLAZA THAT PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, REALLY STARTED LATCHING ONTO. THE CO UH, KIND OF RESIDENTIAL SCHEME WAS REALLY NUMBER THREE, WHERE AGAIN, A VERY SIMILAR LAYOUT. IT HAD MORE INTENSITY OF A, UM, TOWN HOME KIND OF COMPLEX, WHICH IS BASICALLY MORE FOR SALE. AND THEN IT HAD MINOR, UH, REAL ESTATE. AND I DON'T KNOW IF I KNOW IF THIS THING WOULD, NO, IT DOESN'T MATTER. OKAY, THAT'S RIGHT. LET'S SAY THE, UH, THE MIXED USE WE HAVE DOWN AT THE VERY, UH, BY 89 A, THE INTENT OF THAT IS JUST SINGLE STORY RETAIL ON THE LOWER FLOOR AND THEN HAVE APARTMENTS ON THE SECOND FLOOR. SO WE DON'T, YOU, WE CAN STILL HAVE THE UNITS BUT STILL HAVE JUST VERY MUCH, UH, BASICALLY LOCALLY SERVING, UH, RETAIL. THIS ONE ACTUALLY HAD A REC CENTER AND IT'S SIZED AT ABOUT THREE AND A HALF ACRES AT THIS POINT AND IT'S ROUGHLY 15 TO 20,000 SQUARE FEET WITH ABOUT 120 UH, PARKING SPACES. SO THESE ARE THE TWO THAT PEOPLE GRAVITATED TO. AND THAT WAS MY COMMENT BEFORE ABOUT THE REC CENTER STARTED SEEING THAT RISE TO THE TOP. SO FROM THESE TWO WE ACTUALLY CAME UP WITH THE PROGRAM AND WHEN I TALK ABOUT, UH, OH, EXCUSE ME, THE UM, THE COMMENT, LEMME GO THROUGH COMMENTS, I WAS GOING ALREADY TO THE PREFERRED OPTION ALREADY. SO WE STARTED GETTING A FEW, UH, OF THE COMMENTS AND THESE WERE THE ONES THAT WERE GIVEN TO US DURING THE EVENING OF THE WORKSHOP. SO THESE WERE BASICALLY POSTED EITHER ON THE PAGE ITSELF OR RIGHT NEXT TO THE PAGE OR AT LEAST THE PLANS. BASICALLY PEOPLE WERE LOOKING AT THREE TO FOUR STORIES PROBABLY TO PRESERVE THE VIEWS. PREFERENCE WAS TWO TO THREE STORIES, DEFINITELY NOT SEVEN, BUT WE WERE LOOKING AT PROBABLY THREE TO FOUR. THE HOUSING, UH, WAS VERY IMPORTANT. EVERYBODY AGREED OR THERE'S A LOT OF COMMENTS. ABOUT 600 WAS JUST WAY TOO MANY. THERE WAS VERY FEW COMMENTS ON WHAT THE LOWER NUMBER SHOULD BE OTHER THAN LOWER DENSITY. UH, AND THEN ALSO A LOT OF PEOPLE HAD THE COMMENTS ABOUT BALANCING APARTMENTS AND CONDOS. SENIOR HOUSING CAME UP AS FAR AS A NEED AND THAT COULD BE EITHER INDEPENDENT OR ASSISTED LIVING. AND AGAIN, JUST TO BROADEN THE, UH, BASICALLY RESIDENTIAL BASE AND ALSO THE CONSIDER THE RANGE OF BASICALLY INCOMES AND HOUSING OPTIONS. ALSO THE PUBLIC SPACES AS I MENTIONED BEFORE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE ROUGHLY ABOUT 12 TO 14 ACRES OF, UH, PUBLIC LANDS OR BASICALLY OPEN SPACE ON THIS, ON THIS SITE ALREADY. BUT THEY WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S COMMENTS ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT WE KEEP THAT BALANCE BECAUSE OPEN [00:25:01] SPACE IS VERY IMPORTANT WITHIN THE CITY OF SEDONA AND THE SURROUNDING TO MAKE SURE IT'S NOT JUST WALL TO WALL, UH, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY HOUSING, BUT IT HAS A GOOD BALANCE. UH, ALSO REPURPOSE POSSIBLY, AND I THOUGHT THIS WAS KIND OF AN INTERESTING COMMENT AND REPURPOSE THE AMPHITHEATER SEATING AS A COMMUNITY PARK THAT WAY IT'S MORE SERVING AS A LOCAL COMMUNITY PARK. SO ANYBODY THAT ACTUALLY LIVES WITHIN THE APARTMENTS AND TOWN HOMES, THAT BECOMES SORT OF THEIR PARK ITSELF. ANOTHER ONE CAME UP TOO WAS THE, UM, ABOUT THE COMMUNITY GATHERING. SO THIS IS STARTED NOW STARTING ZEROING IN A LITTLE BIT MORE ON THE THOUSAND TO 2000 PEOPLE. UH, BASICALLY EVENTS, NOT NECESSARILY JUST CONCERTS, BUT EVENTS OVERALL. WE STARTED HEARING THAT THEY JUST WANTED TO HAVE A PLACE THAT THEY COULD GATHER. AND SO WE STARTED SEEING THE THOUSAND TO 2000 PEOPLE POP UP. ALSO INCORPORATE MORE TRAILS INTO THE COMMUNITY ITSELF WAS ALSO AN IMPORTANT ONE. A LOT OF COMMENTS ON THE REC CENTER. AND THIS IS AGAIN WHERE THINGS STARTED RISING TO THE TOP A LITTLE BIT MORE. THEY THOUGHT IT WAS A VERY GOOD ASSET FOR THE OVERALL COMMUNITY ITSELF. THEY WANTED TO MAKE SURE IT WAS WELL THOUGHT OUT THAT IT HAD THE RIGHT RECREATIONAL COMPONENTS FOR THE DEMOGRAPHICS, WHICH INCLUDES BOTH FAMILIES AND BASICALLY IT'S MULTICULTURAL. AND THEN ALSO IT SHOULD BE, UM, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY REALISTIC FUNDING. SO AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THESE DON'T COME UH, FREE SO THERE IS A COST ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE. AND SO THEY WANTED MAKE SURE THAT WAS REALLY PUT OUT THERE. AND THEN THERE WAS QUITE A FEW COMMENTS THAT SAID WE WANT A REC CENTER, BUT WE DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE PLACE FOR IT. SO THAT'S ONE OF THOSE ITEMS TOO THAT, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S A REC CENTER IS REALLY NEEDED, YOU KNOW, ARE THERE OTHER PLACES IN TOWN THAT IT COULD GO? OR IS IT, YOU KNOW, REALLY WANNA BE HERE AT THE WESTERN? UM, GATEWAY. MM-HMM . AND THEN ALSO, UH, RETAIL VERY MUCH ECHOED WHAT WE SAW. SMALL, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY SMALL SCALE. IT'S SERVING THE RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY ONLY, NOT SO MUCH THE GREATER PUBLIC. THERE MAY BE A DESTINATION POINT, MAYBE AN OVERLOOK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BUT REALLY STARTING TO LOOK AT DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT. POSSIBLE USE OF PARKING GARAGES SO WE DON'T HAVE SO MUCH PARKING. UH, BASICALLY TAKING UP, UH, BASICALLY SURFACE AREA. AND THEN ALSO A NUMBER OF COMMENTS ABOUT INCORPORATING CULTURAL AND COMMUNITY AMENITIES. AND THAT COULD BE UH, MUSEUMS, IT COULD BE GALLERIES, IT COULD BE PUBLIC ART. BUT REALLY THINK ABOUT THOSE AND MAYBE A PARTNERSHIP WITH THE PHI COMMUNITY COLLEGE AND THE HIGH SCHOOL ITSELF. AND THEN, UM, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT GATEWAY AND SO THAT'S ONE OF THE MAJOR ITEMS TOO IS REALLY WANNA LOOK AT, MAKE SURE THAT WE PROMOTE AND ACCOMMODATE THE WESTERN GATEWAY. 'CAUSE THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. ALSO GETS QUITE A BIT OF TRAFFIC. SO THAT'S SOMETHING TO BE LOOKED AT THERE. AND THEN ALSO FOCUS ON THE DESIGNATED TRAIL HEADS. UH, WE HEARD THAT QUITE A BIT. THERE'S A NUMBER OF SOCIAL TRAILS AND PEOPLE THAT ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE DIFFERENT TRAILS IN THIS AREA WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE FOCUS THAT, UH, THE WAY THE DEVELOPMENT MAY COME TOGETHER, IT MAY REALLY FOCUS ON MAKING SURE THEY FUNNEL PEOPLE, EVEN THE LOCAL RESIDENTS TO CERTAIN TRAIL HEADS. AND THEN ALSO JUST AGAIN, PROVIDING THE, UH, THE TRAILS OF BASICALLY COMMUNITY CONNECTIVITY. THERE WAS A COUPLE COMMENTS REALLY ABOUT PROVIDING THE SHUTTLE, WHICH I MENTIONED BEFORE. YOU KNOW, BEING ABLE TO HAVE THIS THING CONNECTED SO THAT WAY EVERYBODY'S NOT JUST CAR DEPENDENT. AND I THINK THAT IS IT ON THAT PIECE. ANY QUESTIONS THERE? OKAY. LET'S SEE IF I CAN KEEP MY VOICE TOGETHER. GO AHEAD. OKAY. . ALRIGHT. YES. UM, I JUST WANNA PUSH BACK A LITTLE ON THE HOUSING. OH YEAH, SURE. ON THIS ONE. UM, SO YOU COULD GO, IF YOU COULD GO BACK TO THIS, THE, UM, THE ONE WITH THE, THE VARIOUS OPTIONS AND THE GREEN AND RED DOT NUMBERS AND ALL THAT AGAIN, UH, I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY THE TWO OUTLIER ONES, THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONCEPT AND THE PERFORMANCE VENUE FELL AWAY. OKAY. UM, AND THEN WE'RE LEFT WITH NUMBER TWO AND NUMBER THREE. ONE DOT DIFFERENT IS NOT A MANDATE MAKE, YOU KNOW, AND THE NUMBER OF HOUSING UNITS ON THOSE TWO OPTIONS WERE, UH, OH, THEY'RE WITHIN LIKE 25 OF EACH OTHER AND THEY'RE REALLY, REALLY CLOSE. CLOSE, YEAH. YEAH, THEY'RE CLOSE. YEAH. YEAH. SO THEN, BUT THE ONE THAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THE PREFERRED WAS YOU'RE USING THE HIGHER NUMBER, THE FOUR 90? I BELIEVE THAT'S WHERE WE WERE STARTING, YES. YEAH. UM, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT STARTING WITH THE LOWER DENSITY NUMBER, UM, AND I'LL, AND THERE ARE OTHER REASONS FOR THAT AS WE GO ON, BUT, BUT AGAIN, THOSE TWO ARE VIRTUALLY THE SAME. UM, SO IT'S KIND OF A TOSS UP IN TERMS OF THE LODGING SIDE OF IT. SURE. UM, AND THEN YOU HAVE AN ALTERNATE TO THE PREFERRED CONCEPT THAT HAS TO DO WITH, UM, MORE COMMERCIAL ALONG 89 A MM-HMM . AND THAT BUMPS THE HOUSING UP TO OVER 500, NEITHER OF WHICH WAS IN THE ORIGIN WAS IN [00:30:01] NUMBER TWO OR NUMBER THREE. SO FOR ME, THAT'S A NON-STARTER. UH, WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING THE WRONG DIRECTION WITH DENSITY. UM, THEN THERE'S THINGS ABOUT HEIGHT AND SO FORTH, WHICH COULD BE WAYS TO REDUCE DENSITY IF YOU HAD PURE FLOORS. UM, BUT I, I JUST WOULD LIKE TO, I DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW THOSE NUMBERS CAME TO BE. UM, I SEE THAT YOU HAD, YOU KNOW, CONVERSATIONS WITH VARIOUS GROUPS AND SO FORTH, BUT WHERE DID SOMETHING IN THE FOUR HUNDREDS, LOW FOUR HUNDREDS, HIGH 400, WHERE DID THAT REALLY COME FROM? WAS THERE A MANDATE FROM THE CITY OR TO SAY, WE WANT AT LEAST SUCH AND SUCH NUMBER BECAUSE IT'S ? YEAH. IT'S KIND OF JUST, YOU KNOW, YEAH. I SEEMS TO BE PULLED OUT THE AIR. YEAH, I, I RESPECT THAT. UH, WHEN I GET TO THE PROGRAM, I CAN GO THROUGH THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE OF WHY THOSE NUMBERS ARE WHAT THEY ARE AND IT HAS TO RELATE TO ECONOMY OF SCALE AND THE VARIETY OF HOUSING. THOSE TWO. AND THEN ONE MORE QUESTION ON, ON THAT. UM, IS THERE ANY, I'VE ASKED THIS OF STAFF TOO, SO I'LL I'LL ASK YOU TWO. UM, IF YOU WERE GUESSTIMATING, WHAT PROPORTION OF THE HOUSING WOULD PROBABLY END UP BEING, UM, RENT SUBSIDIZED WORKER HOUSING? KIND OF, SO WE DON'T KNOW YET, BUT THE APARTMENT COMPLEXES THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED COULD BE THAT. SO THE SWEET SPOT ON ON BASICALLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING, IF YOU'RE TALKING JUST THAT PARTICULAR TYPE OF APARTMENT COMPLEX, TYPICALLY THE CAPITAL INVESTORS WANT 200 APARTMENTS. SO THAT'S WHAT YOU TYPICALLY SEE. THAT'S AN INVESTOR GRADE THAT WOULD HAVE THE GREATEST ATTRACTION FOR DEVELOPERS HERE. SO THAT'S THE SCALE THAT YOU TYPICALLY WOULD SEE FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING. NOW ARE THERE ONES THAT HAVE 80 TO A HUNDRED? PROBABLY. SO IT'S PROBABLY A VERY NARROWER MARKET WHEN YOU GET TO THAT POINT BECAUSE, UM, AND ACTUALLY THAT'S A MUCH HIGHER PERCENTAGE THAN WHAT STAFF HAD COME OUT WITH JUST FYI. OKAY. UM, AND I, I, I UNDERSTAND WE'RE NOT GONNA KNOW UNTIL SOMETHING'S OUT ON THE STREET AND WE GET RESPONSES, BUT IN THE INTEREST OF, OF RESIDENTS UNDERSTANDING OR MANAGING EXPECTATIONS, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, UM, A HUNDRED UNITS ACTUALLY BEING WORKER HOUSING OR IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 200 UNITS, THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE. AND SO JUST FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT IF THEY WERE THINKING 75% OF IT WAS GONNA BE WORKER HOUSING, THAT'S PROBABLY NOT GONNA HAPPEN. JUST IN TERMS OF THE MARKET, I GUESS, OR IF YOU, ANYWAY, IF YOU COULD COMMENT ON THAT BECAUSE I, I DON'T WANT TO CREATE FALSE HOPES AND I DON'T WANT TO CREATE FALSE FEARS. AND WOULD YOU ALSO BE IN A PO POSITION TO TALK ABOUT THE HOUSING SURVEY THAT WAS CONDUCTED AND THE NUMBER OF UNITS THAT WERE IDENTIFIED AND UM, HOW, HOW THIS WOULD ADDRESS THE OVERALL HOUSING SCARCITY IN THE COMMUNITY? OKAY, SO LET ME TAKE, UH, TAKE THE, LET'S TALK ABOUT HOUSING FIRST. OKAY, THAT'S GOOD. . SO YOU'RE ABOUT 1200 UNITS SHORT CURRENTLY. RIGHT. AND SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE ON THIS KIND OF PREFERRED PLAN, I'LL GO THROUGH THAT IN HERE IN JUST A MINUTE, IS TRY TO GIVE ENOUGH FLEXIBILITY SO IT DOES HIT ALL THOSE INCOME RANGES. SO YOU COULD HAVE TRULY AFFORDABLE HOUSING ALL THE WAY TO ATTAINABLE HOUSING TO MARKET RATE. SO THERE'S A LOT OF THOSE DIFFERENT THINGS YOU COULD CUT THROUGH. AND SO, UM, AND AGAIN, THE REASON WHY YOU'RE STARTING TO SEE SOME OF THE, THE NUMBERS, THAT WOULD BE THE TOP NUMBER. AND AGAIN, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS IF YOU WERE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE CITY LOOKING FOR THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF FLEXIBILITY AND THE GREATEST NUMBER OF A PRODUCT TYPE THAT COULD GO IN, THEN SET THOSE NUMBERS HIGHER AND HAVE A MAX. AND THEN ALSO, BUT YOU'RE ALSO LOOKING AT MAKING SURE YOU'RE TRYING TO DELIVER A MINIMUM NUMBER TOO, BECAUSE YOU'RE TRYING TO GET THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY TO BASICALLY PERFORM A FUNCTION WITHIN BASICALLY YOUR COMMUNITY, MEANING SUPPLY HOUSING. SO WE'RE TRYING TO GET AS MUCH FLEXIBILITY, AND AGAIN, A LOT OF THE NUMBERS YOU'RE SEEING PROBABLY TODAY WILL BE THE UPPER END OF NUMBERS MORE SO THAN THE BOTTOM END OF NUMBERS. SO, AND I CAN GO 1200 IS OUR CURRENT, RIGHT? SO AND SO BY THE TIME THIS PROJECT'S COMPLETED, SO 1200 I BELIEVE WAS THE NUMBER THAT THE STUDY IN 2020 SAID THAT WE WERE SHORT. RIGHT. AND THAT ALSO ANTICIPATED IN 2020 THAT WE WOULD BE SHORT IN AN ADDITIONAL 300 IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. SO BASED ON THAT STUDY, WE WOULD BE SHORT 1500 TODAY IF RIGHT. AND BY THE TIME THIS WHOLE PROJECT'S DONE, WE'RE LOOKING AT ANOTHER SIGNIFICANT PERIOD OF TIME. AND AS FAMILIES GROW AND IF WE ASSUME A GROWTH MINDSET IN THIS [00:35:01] TOWN, IT'S GONNA BE SIGNIFICANTLY MORE THAN THAT PROBABLY. AND BY MY COUNT, WE'RE PROBABLY, WE HAVE ABOUT 180 UNITS, UM, IN THE PIPELINE. MORE AROUND THERE. YEAH. AND THAT EXCLUDES THE, UM, PART PLACE. IF I COULD ADD SOMETHING AS WELL, I'M SORRY TO JUMP IN HERE. AND THIS IS ALL GREAT CONVERSATION, GREAT FEEDBACK. THERE'S SO MANY MOVING PARTS AND PIECES TO THIS. UM, THE ACTUAL NUMBER OF GAP NUMBER WAS 1620 BACK IN 2020, UH, FOR SEDONA ALONE. MM-HMM . THEN WHEN YOU TAKE IN ALL THE, UH, THE HOMES THAT WERE REMOVED FROM THE MARKET MM-HMM . MM-HMM . VIA SHORT TERM RENTALS MM-HMM . SO YOU HAVE TO FACTOR THOSE IN AS WELL. SO, UM, DOES THAT 1600 REPRESENT THE 1200 STR THAT WERE TAKEN FROM THE MARKET? YEAH, SO, UH, SHARING COMMISSIONERS AND IS THAT WHERE YOU, IN 2020 THERE WAS ABOUT 700 SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN THE CITY WHEN THAT STUDY WAS BEING DONE. UM, THERE'S 1200 TODAY, SO THERE'S ABOUT A 500 DIFFERENCE. UM, WELL WE DON'T KNOW IF EVERY ONE OF THEM WAS PREVIOUSLY USED, YOU KNOW, AS A FULL-TIME RESIDENT OR A VACATION RENTAL. SO LIKE THAT. BUT YEAH, THERE'S ABOUT A 500, UH, ROUGHLY ADDITION YOU COULD ADD TO THAT BASED ON THE NUMBER OF NEW SHORT TERM RENTALS SINCE THAT TIME. THANK YOU. CAN I ASK A QUESTION AROUND THIS AS WELL? SURE. CAN I GET LIKE A 10,000 FOOT VIEW OF THE WAY THAT THIS PROPERTY, IF WE'RE LOOKING INTO THE FUTURE, SO WHAT I'M WONDERING IS WE GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS MM-HMM . WE DEVELOP A PLAN, THE PLAN GETS ADOPTED, THEN WHAT HAPPENS? AND, AND LIKE WITH THE DETAIL OF THEN DO WE, DO WE GET RFPS FOR THE DEVELOPMENTS OF THE TYPES OF THINGS WE WANT? YES. LIKE WE WANNA KNOW IMPLEMENTATION. I WANNA KNOW WHAT THE LONG WHERE, WHERE'S THE, I'M GONNA, I DON'T WANNA SAY END 'CAUSE I DON'T ACTUALLY THINK A PROJECT LIKE THIS HAS A STRICT END. I WANNA KNOW WHERE THE, LIKE WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE WHEN WE'RE COMING UP ON OUR FIRST SETS OF CONSTRUCTION? HOW DO WE GET LIKE WHAT HAPPENS BETWEEN NOW AND SOMEONE BREAKING GROUND AND THE CITY'S ROLE IN, IN INFRASTRUCTURE AND, UM, DEVELOPMENT? YEAH. IT, WHAT, WHAT, THAT'S A BIG QUESTION. IT'S A BIG, YOU WANNA KNOW THE PHA? I WANT, I WANNA, I WANT LIKE A 10,000 FOOT VIEW. I KNOW THE CITY DOESN'T WANNA BE A LANDLORD, RIGHT? SO LIKE, SO ONCE A MASTER PLAN IS, AND THIS IS KIND OF GETTING AHEAD OF OURSELVES, BUT 10,000 SQUARE FOOT VIEW, IF MASTER PLAN IS ADOPTED MM-HMM . IMPLEMENTATION PLAN WOULD BE NEXT. THE CITY WOULD LIKELY, YOU KNOW, THERE WOULD BE DIFFERENT, THE THE BUBBLES ON THE MAP THAT THEY'RE SHOWING WOULD BECOME PARCELS WHERE WE WOULD PUT LIKELY PUT OUT AN RFP FOR A PROPOSAL SAYING, ON THIS PROPERTY OF THIS MUCH SPACE, HERE'S THE MAXIMUM DENSITY, HERE'S THE MAXIMUM HEIGHTS YOU'RE ALLOWED. GIVE US A PROPOSAL. AND WE WOULD CHOOSE A DEVELOPER WHO'S CLOSEST TO WHAT THE CITY HAD AS THE GOAL FOR THAT PARCEL. AND IN A PERFECT HYPOTHETICAL WORLD WHERE EVERYTHING WORKS THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO WORK AND MONEY IS THERE WHEN YOU NEED IT, WHAT'S THE TIMELINE FOR GROUNDBREAKING ON ANY TYPE OF PROJECT ON THE PROPERTY? IN THE MOST HYPOTHETICAL, I'M NOT LOOKING FOR A COMMITMENT. I WANNA, I AM JUST CURIOUS ON LIKE, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT THIS IS NEEDED MM-HMM . TO ME THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE FROM FIVE YEARS FROM NOW TO 10 YEARS FROM NOW TO 15 YEARS FROM NOW. AND I UNDERSTAND HOW GOVERNMENT AND DEVELOPMENT WORKS. UM, SO I'M JUST TRYING TO BE LIKE, OKAY, AM I THINKING ABOUT, I THINK IT WOULD BE REASONABLE TO SAY THAT YOU COULD HAVE AT LEAST ONE OF THE FIRST PROJECTS STARTED IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS IF EVERYTHING GOES PERFECTLY. OKAY. THANK YOU. YEAH. I JUST, THIS IS VERY EARLY MM-HMM . FOR US, YOU THEN COMPARED TO NORMAL, WE'RE LIKE GO AHEAD, GO BUILD IT . ANYONE ELSE? NO. WELL, I JUST HAVE A QUESTION. IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT TRAFFIC ON 89 A AND CULTURAL PARKWAY AND IF THERE'S, WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO RIGHT AWAY, WHAT WE MIGHT DO IN 10 YEARS, I MEAN, IS THERE ANY ANY THOUGHT GIVEN TO THAT? BECAUSE I THINK IT'S GONNA END UP BEING, UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'LL BE SEEN AS SOON AS WE START BUILDING HERE MM-HMM . SO IT HASN'T, WE HAVEN'T DONE ANY TYPE OF A TRAFFIC ANALYSIS YET. WE'RE NOT THERE YET. UH, THE ONE OBVIOUSLY FORTUNATE INTERSECTION YOU HAVE ALREADY IS ALREADY A SIGNALED INTERSECTION, WHICH THAT'S ALREADY A BONUS 'CAUSE THAT'S ALWAYS A ARM WRESTLING TO TRY TO GET THAT FROM ADOT. UH, WE DO NEED ANOTHER ACCESS POINT, UH, BASICALLY FURTHER WEST AND WE NEED THAT FROM A COUPLE THINGS, PROBABLY FROM A TRAFFIC FLOW, BUT ALSO JUST FROM A FIRE ACCESS TOO. WE HAVE TWO POINTS OF ACCESS, BUT WE HAVEN'T GOT MUCH FURTHER THAN THAT. YOU KNOW, THINGS HAVE BEEN KICKED AROUND ABOUT, YOU KNOW, DEDICATED LEFTS, YOU KNOW, THE INFAMOUS ROUNDABOUT, WHATEVER AT THAT POINT. SO LIKE [00:40:01] I SAID, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS TO MAKE THAT REALLY WORK OR NOT WORK. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THOSE. SO THERE'S SOME SMALL DISCUSSION OF THAT IN THE WESTERN GATEWAY. CFA. MM-HMM . WHAT DID YOU SEE THAT THE YEAH. ANTICIPATED CHANGES THAT MIGHT HAVE TO TAKE PLACE ON 89 8 ACCOMMODATE A, A FULL BUILD OUT AT THE CULTURAL PARK. OKAY. CORRECT. AND, AND THERE WOULD BE THE INCREASE OF TRANSIT MM-HMM . MULTIMODAL. MM-HMM . UM, THAT'S ALL A PART OF THIS PLAN AS WELL. MM-HMM . CAN I ASK ONE MORE THING? 'CAUSE I JUST READ MY OWN NOTES. SO I, I WENT BACK TO THE HOUSING STUDY. I DIDN'T READ THE WHOLE THING, BUT I READ CHUNKS OF IT AND IN MY HEAD, IN MY NOTE MATH, I CAME UP WITH LIKE ABOUT TWO TAKING INTO THE STR AND THE GROWTH ABOUT 2000 UNITS. IS THAT A FAIR NAPKIN MATH OF CHANGE IN FIVE YEARS? DO YOU FEEL LIKE STEVE? UM, KNOWING WHAT WE KNOW NOW YEAH. BETWEEN THAT STUDY BETWEEN THE DISPAR, THE, THE, THE INCREASE IN STR YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S ABOUT THE, OKAY. SORRY. SORRY. DIDN'T KNOW MY COMPUTER. . JUST TO PIGGYBACK ON THAT, WAS IT EVER THE EXPECT EXPECTATION OF THE CITY THAT THIS UM, CULTURAL PARK BUILT OUT? I'M NOT EVEN GONNA SAY WESTERN GATEWAY 'CAUSE THAT'S LARGE. THAT'S EVEN LARGER. BUT ANYWAY WOULD BE A CON WOULD ADDRESS 25% OF THIS DEFICIT OR 50% OF THE DEFICIT. SURELY WE'RE NOT, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT, UM, PUTTING IT ALL ON THE BACKS OF THE CULTURAL PARK, BUT I THINK IT'S ALWAYS BEEN ACKNOWLEDGED THAT WE, IT HAVE TO BE A MULTIFACETED APPROACH TO ADDRESS THE HOUSING ISSUES. AND THAT'S WHY JEANIE AND UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT SHE'S DOING WITH THE HOUSING DEPARTMENT, THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT PROGRAMS WE'RE WORKING WITH OTHER DEVELOPERS, BUT UM, AS THE HOUSING STUDY CAME OUT AND THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GONNA GET TO A 2000, 1500, 2000, WE'RE NOT GONNA ADDRESS THAT BY DOING 30 UNIT PROJECTS MM-HMM . THROUGHOUT THE CITY. THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE A COUPLE PROJECTS THAT HAVE A MUCH LARGER IMPACT. MM-HMM . BUT THAT'S WHERE, TO ME, THE UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT TYPES OF, OF BUILDUP BUILDINGS THOSE ARE GONNA BE IS IMPORTANT. BECAUSE IF YOU'RE THINK YOU'RE GONNA WAIT FOR THE WORKER HOUSING AND IT'S GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, 15% OF IT OR SOMETHING THAT'S, SO TO CLARIFY WHEN YOU'RE SAYING WORKER HOUSING, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING OR HOUSING THAT IS AVAILABLE TO WORKERS? I'M TALKING ABOUT AFFORDABLE RENT SUBSIDIZED. OKAY. YEAH. 'CAUSE THE INTENTION WOULD BE THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE GOAL FOR THIS WOULD BE FOR WORKER HOUSING, MAYBE NOT ALL AFFORDABLE AND THE STRICT SENSE OF THE WORD, BUT IT WOULD BE AVAILABLE FOR WORKERS TO LIVE HERE. SO JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE GETTING YOUR TERMINOLOGIES. ONE THING, CAN YOU JUST VERY QUICKLY, JUST FOR THOSE OF US THAT MIGHT NOT RECALL, AND FOR THE AUDIENCE, CAN YOU JUST EXPLAIN AGAIN WHAT, WHEN WE SAY AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THAT THAT QUICK EQUATION SO FOLKS KNOW WHAT WE'RE REFERRING TO? SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND SOMEONE ELSE CAN JUMP IN IF I'M SAYING SOMETHING WRONG, WE WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT UNITS THAT ARE DEED RESTRICTED SO THAT A PERSON MAKING A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF THE AREA MEDIAN INCOME DOES NOT PAY, PAY MORE THAN A, I THINK 30% OF THEIR INCOME ON RENT. SO IT'S, THE RENTS END UP BEING BASED ON THE INCOME OF THE PERSON, NOT WHAT THE MARKET WOULD DEMAND FOR SOME OF THOSE UNITS. UM, WHEN PEOPLE END UP PAYING 50, 60% OF THEIR INCOME TOWARDS RENT, THAT PUTS THEM IN A VERY PRECARIOUS SPOT. UM, AND SO WHEN YOU, AND THAT'S, UM, JEANIE CAN PROBABLY THINK SHE'S OVER THERE. UM, WE CAN TALK, YOU KNOW, AND IF YOU WANTED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THAT, BUT IT WOULD BE WHEN, BUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT MARKET RATE, THAT WOULD JUST BE THE RENT IS BASED ON WHAT THE MARKET WOULD BEAR. SO IT'S NOT BASED ON INCOME, IT'S JUST WHAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO PAY. AND SO THERE'S THAT DIFFERENT TERMINOLOGY. AND SO JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, DOES SOMEONE HAVE THE NUMBER OF WHAT THE MEDIUM INCOME IS FOR SEDONA? MM-HMM . HI COMMISSIONER. YES. UH, THE MEDIAN INCOME FOR SEDONA IS IN THE $60,000 RANGE. GREAT. THAT'S THE AREA MEDIAN INCOME. SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO EARN IF SO FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, UM, 30% OF THAT INCOME GOES TOWARD HOUSING. RIGHT. SO FIGURE YOU DO THE MATH, YOU FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH CAN THAT PERSON AFFORD FOR A MONTHLY RENT. OKAY. GREAT. THANK YOU. MM-HMM . [00:45:06] ALRIGHT. QUESTION. SO WHAT WOULD BE THE APPROACH OF THE CITY TO ENABLE THE KIND OF MIX OF HOUSING FOR SENIORS, FOR SINGLES, FOR FAMILIES IN ALL OF THOSE? I MEAN, IF, IF WE'RE LOOKING FOR A DIVERSE, UH, INVENTORY OF HOUSING TYPES, HOW DO YOU, HOW DO WE ACHIEVE THAT WHEN IN AN R-F-P-I-I-I CAN ANSWER. I THINK HOW DO YOU END UP WITH A, YOU KNOW, A UNIVERSAL FORMULA THAT YOU HAVE RIGHT. BEEN ABLE TO ADDRESS THE DIVERSITY OF HOUSING, THE DIVERSITY OF OCCUPANTS MM-HMM . UM, 'CAUSE FIRST IN WOULD KIND OF DEFINE PERHAPS IF WE, IF THERE WERE THREE GEOGRAPHIC AREAS WHERE YOU WERE LOOKING FOR POTENTIAL DEVELOPMENT. RIGHT. SO, UM, ABSOLUTELY. UM, ONE OF THE AVENUES WOULD BE THE USE OF THAT RFP. UM, BUT BEFORE THAT IT'S THIS PROCESS. IT'S US, UM, GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS UNDERSTANDING, UM, HOW, HOW MUCH OF, OF A CERTAIN LEVEL, UH, THAT THE CITY WANTS, UM, WHAT TYPES RENTAL YEAH. SALES, RIGHT? UM, AND THEN ULTIMATELY, UH, HAVING THESE, UH, THESE WANTS WITHIN THE RFP AND SEEING WHAT THE DEVELOPMENT WORLD CAN SAY, OKAY, IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR 25, 20 5% TO BE 60% A MI, WE'RE GONNA NEED X AMOUNT FOR THESE OTHERS OR I'M GONNA HAVE TO HAVE MORE RETAIL TO SUSTAIN THIS TOR SORT OF DEVELOPMENT. SO A LOT OF, A LOT OF THAT AND, AND PART OF WHAT WE'RE HERE IS TO GET THE MINIMUMS AND MAXIMUMS MAXIMUM OF DENSITY OF WHAT YOU WANT AND MM-HMM . MAXIMUM OF EACH TYPE. UM, SO WE WOULD, WE WOULD PLACE THAT WITHIN OUR WANTS WITHIN THE RFP AND SEE WHAT THE DEVELOP DEVELOPMENT WORLD COMES BACK WITH AND FEELS THAT YES, WE CAN DO THIS IF WE HAVE THIS, THIS, AND THIS. SO LET'S GET, THEN GET BACK TO THE NUMBERS THAT WERE PROPOSED. WAS THERE AN UNDERLYING FORMULA THERE? SO WE REALLY LOOKED AT, UH, WHEN WE STARTED PUTTING THE PLANS, AND I CAN SHOW YOU THESE IN A FEW MINUTES, TO, WE LOOKED AT THREE DIFFERENT PRODUCT TYPES AND WE STARTED LOOKING AT WHAT THE OPTIMUM SIZE OF THAT PRODUCT TYPE WOULD BE FROM AN INVESTOR BASED STANDPOINT AND DEVELOPER BASED. SO THAT'S HOW THE NUMBERS REALLY CAME THROUGH. SO THAT'S HOW WE STARTED LOOKING AT THE LARGER APARTMENTS. OKAY. SO THAT'S YOUR FIRST BENCHMARK. THAT'S IS WHAT WOULD INTEREST A DEVELOPER? WELL, AT WHAT SIZE? AND BASICALLY IT WOULD GIVE THE MORE IMPORTANTLY IT WOULD GIVE THE COUNCIL, UH, THE GREATER LATITUDE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT KIND OF PRODUCT TYPES COULD ACTUALLY FIT HERE. UHHUH, , AND NOT GET SO SPECIFIC. 'CAUSE WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST ON OTHER CITIES IS VERY, SOMETHING VERY SPECIFIC IS PUT IN THERE AND IT, YOU KNOW, RATHER THAN HAVING FOUR TO FIVE DEVELOPERS, THEY NOW PULL IT DOWN TO TWO MM-HMM . AND THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO REALLY DEVELOP IT AT, AT THE ECONOMY OF SCALE OR AT THE COST POINTS YOU NEEDED TO BE. MM-HMM . SO HOW ABOUT THE MIX CONDOS, TOWN HOMES, APARTMENTS? HOW DID YOU DRIVE, UH, THAT? UM, SO WE USUALLY LOOK AT, YEAH, SO TOWN HOMES, UH, CAN USUALLY ARE FOR SALE. THEY CAN BE A FOUR RENT PRODUCT. BUT WE LOOKED AT THOSE BEING MAINLY FOR SALE. WE LOOKED IS THAT TRUE OF CONDOS? THEY WOULD BE FOR SALE CONDOS, DEFINITELY. UH, ANYTIME YOU SAY A CONDOS VERSUS APARTMENTS. RIGHT. BUT WHAT COULD HAPPEN ON THE, WE ACTUALLY ARE SHOWING A TWO STORY, UH, APARTMENT SLASH CONDO. SO THOSE COULD BE FLEXED EITHER WAY. AND THEN APARTMENTS ARE APARTMENTS. MM-HMM . SO THAT WAS WHAT WE WERE STARTING TO LOOK AT. SO HOW DID YOU, HOW DID YOU GET TO YOUR NUMBERS? SO THAT WAS, WELL SO THAT'S AGAIN, WHEN I LOOKED AT THE TOWN HOMES, I LOOKED AT 60 TO 80 UNITS. UHHUH, WHEN I STARTED LOOKING AT APARTMENTS OR CONDOS. YEAH. MEANING THAT'S THE ONE TO TWO STORY OR TWO TO THREE STORY. MM-HMM . I WAS LOOKING AT LEAST, UH, BASICALLY 120 OR SO, MAYBE 80 TO 120 IS THAT SWEET SPOT. MM-HMM . WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT, AT APARTMENTS, I WAS LOOKING AT 200 UNITS. SO THAT'S HOW I STARTED DOING THE NUMBERS IN THOSE. MM-HMM . THANK YOU. OKAY. I'M NOT TRYING TO TIE ANYBODY DOWN AT THIS POINT 'CAUSE I REALIZE THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE, BUT, UM, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT GOING TO DEVELOPERS WITH THROUGH THE RFP PROCESS, AND THIS IS GONNA BE A PHASE, RIGHT, UH, PROCESS, WE'RE GONNA HAVE PARCELS AS YOU SAID, AND THIS PARCEL WOULD BE CONTAINING APARTMENTS. THIS PARCEL IS GONNA HAVE, UH, TOWN HOMES OR IF YOU ARE NOT LETTING THEM OUT, LETTING THEM ON THE STREET AT THE SAME TIME MM-HMM . HOW CAN YOU ASSURE YOURSELF THAT YOU ARE GOING TO END UP WITH A MIX MM-HMM . IF YOU DO THE EASY STUFF FIRST, LIKE SAY TOWN HOMES, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE EASY STUFF IS, BUT DO THE EASY STUFF FIRST AND THEN THE HARDER STUFF, WHICH I'M GONNA ASSUME IS THINGS THAT REQUIRE, YOU KNOW, LITE FUNDING OR SOME KIND OF FEDERAL SUBSIDIES. UH, LASTLY, HOW [00:50:01] DO YOU EVER KNOW YOU'RE REALLY GONNA GET CLOSE TO WHAT YOU WANT? IF YOU'RE DOING THIS IN PIECES, AND I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD DO IT IN PIECES, BUT STILL, WELL, I'M NOT SAYING THAT ULTIMATELY WE'RE DOING THIS IN PIECES. THAT'S PART OF WHAT THAT IMPLEMENTATION PLAN, UM, IS GOING TO TELL US IS THAT ONCE WE GET TO THAT STAGE, IT'S GONNA LOOK AT THE MARKET, IT'S GONNA LOOK AT THE DEVELOPERS, IT'S GONNA SAY, YEAH, YOU'RE BETTER OFF, UM, PUTTING EACH OF THESE AREAS OUT TO BID. OR I THINK YOU CAN GET A DEVELOPER THAT CAN DO THE WHOLE THING. SO THAT'S PART OF WHAT THE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN WILL HELP US UNDERSTAND. UM, AND THERE IS ALSO A THOUGHT AND, AND PLEASE, UM, YOU KNOW, JAY'S, JAY'S IN THAT DEVELOPMENT WORLD. UM, BUT THERE'S ALSO A THOUGHT THAT THERE MAY BE DEVELOPERS THAT'LL SAY, YEAH, I CAN GIVE YOU 25%, 60% A MI, UM, AS LONG AS, YOU KNOW, I GET THE REST AT MARKET OR, OR WHATEVER THAT MIGHT BE. SO THAT'S WHERE HITTING OUR MINIMUMS, THAT OUR MAXIMUMS, UH, IS GONNA HELP US UNDERSTAND, UH, WHAT THE BEST, UH, PRODUCT MIGHT BE IN, IN THE END. THAT NEEDS TO BE A REALLY CAREFULLY WRITTEN RFP TO HAVE THAT KIND OF FLEXIBILITY AND UM, UM, REACH AND REACH. YEAH. YEAH. SO CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS, THERE'S UH, SOME GOOD EXAMPLES PHOENIX HAS DONE, NOT UH, AS LARGE AS THIS, BUT DONE SOME OTHER ONES, UH, THAT REALLY NARROWS IT DOWN, UH, TO WHAT THE CITY'S LOOKING FOR WITH DIFFERENT FORMS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO THERE'S SOME GOOD EXAMPLES OUT THERE THAT WE COULD, COULD BASE THAT OFF ON. I'M INTERESTED IN, UM, HOW YOU CAME UP WITH THE AMOUNT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE DEDICATED TO MIXED USE AND COMMERCIAL AND THE COMMERCIAL USES THAT YOU THINK ARE APPROPRIATE TO SERVE A A NEIGHBORHOOD. SURE. DO I WANNA GET INTO THE PREFERRED? COULD WE GET YEAH, IT'S BASICALLY, YEAH, SO A LOT OF YOUR QUESTIONS, THE NEXT SECTION IS THE PREFERRED CONCEPTS AND HOW WE GOT TO WHAT WAS IN YOUR PACKET. SO IT SHOULD WE WAIT. OKAY. AND SO UNLESS THERE'S COMMENTS ABOUT THE PROCESS TO GET TO THE PREFERRED CONCEPTS OF, WE'LL JUST MOVE ON TO THIS NEXT SECTION AND THAT MIGHT ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS. OKAY, PERFECT. AND THEN YOU CAN OBVIOUSLY ANSWER QUESTIONS WHEN WE'RE, I'M MORE VISUAL ANYWAY, SO I CAN POINT TO THINGS MUCH EASIER THAT WAY. SO, ALRIGHT, SO GOING TO THE PREFERRED ALTERNATIVE, THANK YOU ALL FOR THAT CONVERSATION. I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT IS ABOUT THE MIX OF PRODUCTS, IT'S MIX OF HOW YOU REALLY DO GET TO THIS AND THEN ALSO THE GOALS OF THE COMMUNITY. SO WHAT WE DO IS FROM THE TWO SCENARIOS, BOTH TWO AND THREE, WE PUT TOGETHER BASICALLY WHAT I CALL A, A LAND USE PROGRAM. SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, UH, NOT EVEN KNOWING ABOUT THE PIECE OF LAND, BUT IF YOU HAD A PERFORMANCE YOU WERE TRYING TO RUN, THIS IS WHAT YOU WOULD TRY TO ACHIEVE. BUT NOW KNOWING WE WENT THROUGH THE PUBLIC PROCESS, WHAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT, WE STARTED NARROWING DOWN WHAT WE CALL THE PROGRAM. AND SO I'VE DIVIDED THIS INTO I THINK FIVE OR SIX DIFFERENT SECTIONS. SO THE FIRST ONE IS REALLY THE MIX OF HOUSING OPTIONS. WE'VE JUST TAGGED IT BETWEEN 450 AND FOUR 90, WHICH IS REAL REFLECTIVE OF BOTH, UH, OPTIONS TWO AND THREE. SO SOMEWHERE IN THERE. AND THEN WE'D ALREADY TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THE APARTMENTS, UH, BASICALLY THE THREE TO FOUR STORY APARTMENTS THAT ARE TWO, TWO TO THREE AND THEN ALSO TOWN, TOWN HOMES. HOW WE STARTED ARRIVING AT THOSE NUMBERS, AND AGAIN, I'M LOOKING AT TRYING TO ATTRACT, THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS. ONE, YOU REALLY WANT TO GET THE DIFFERENT TYPE OF HOUSING PRODUCT RATHER THAN JUST NARROWING DOWN TO ONE BECAUSE THEN YOU REALLY NARROW WHAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY THAT THE INCOME YOU CAN GET. SO WE LOOKED AT THAT. PLUS WE ALSO WANNA GET THE DEVELOPERS INTERESTED AND THE CITY THE GREATEST LEEWAY AND THEN BE ABLE TO MAKE SURE CAPITAL IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE ASSOCIATED WITH, WITH ANY KIND OF HOUSING PRODUCT. CAN YOU ATTRACT, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY CAPITAL. EACH CAPITAL INVESTOR LOOKS AT CERTAIN SCALES OF APARTMENTS, THAT TYPE OF THING. AND IF THEY DON'T HIT A CERTAIN CRITERIA THEN THEY HAVE A RISK AND THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO REALLY COME THROUGH THAT. SO WHEN WE STARTED LOOKING AT APARTMENTS, SWEET SPOT IS BETWEEN 200 TO BASICALLY TWO 20 IS WHAT WE SEE. WE'RE LOOKING AT PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE DIFFERENT TYPES OF APARTMENTS WITHIN THAT, EVEN THAT ZONE, EVEN WHEN YOU GET TO A THREE TO FOUR STORY RIGHT NOW WE'RE TALKING A 48, UH, 40 FOOT HEIGHT, 48 FOOT HEIGHT AS FAR AS FOUR STORIES, WHICH GIVES US SOME EXTRA AREA. BUT JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA, IF YOU TAKE IT DOWN TO THREE, I AUTOMATICALLY LOSE 80 UNITS JUST RIGHT OFF THE TOP. SO JUST LIKE I SAID, WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT SOME OF THESE NUMBERS, THEY DO AFFECT, YOU KNOW, THE BOTTOM LINE AS YOU GO THROUGH THE APARTMENTS, THIS IS THE ONE 20 TO TWO 50 AND AGAIN, THEY'RE NOT ALL IN ONE. SO THEY COULD ACTUALLY BE TWO COMPLEXES OF ONE 20. SO ONE COULD BE, UH, FOR EXAMPLE, IT COULD BE ASSISTED LIVING, THE OTHER ONE COULD BE A CONDO. SO SOMETHING LIKE THAT KIND OF A MIX. TOWN HOMES, THEY CAN BE A MIX OF WHAT WE CALL TUCK UNDERS, WHICH MEANS THEY'RE A TWO TO THREE STORY WITH A GARAGE TUCKED UNDERNEATH, WHICH ARE PRETTY DESIRABLE. THEY CAN BE [00:55:01] A NEW FROM TWO TO THREE, UH, THREE BEDROOM WHERE THE TWO, UH, STORY ARE TYPICALLY, UH, SURFACE PARKED. THEY MAY HAVE ONE CAR GARAGE VERSUS A TWO CAR GARAGE UNDERNEATH THEM. AND SO THEY'RE ALL THESE KIND OF THINGS THAT GO THROUGH. WE'VE ALSO SHOWED, UH, HOW MUCH PARKING SPACES, AND THESE ARE AVERAGE FOR EACH ONE OF THESE UNITS. SO WE'RE MAKING SURE THAT NOT ONLY ARE WE SHOWING THE BUILDING FOOTPRINT, WE'RE ALSO SHOWING WHAT'S REQUIRED FROM A PARKING STANDPOINT. WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UH, YOU MENTIONED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW YOU CAME UP WITH A MIXED USE. SO THE FIRST ONE IS REALLY A MIXED USE FOR THE RESIDENTIAL FOCUS, WHICH MEANS THE RETAIL IS ONLY THERE TO REALLY SERVICE THE POPULATION ONLY. MM-HMM . AND SO THERE'S NOT ANY, ANY GREAT SCIENCE ON HOW MUCH, BUT TYPICALLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS TYPE OF RETAIL, IT'S, IT'S, YOU WANNA LEAN, BASICALLY BE MORE LEAN THAN TOO MUCH. AND I THINK EVERYBODY'S SEEN VACANT RETAIL SPACE TOO MUCH. AND SO WE REALLY PUT THE SWEET SPOT AROUND, YOU KNOW, EIGHT TO ANYWHERE FROM 10 TO 15,000 SQUARE FEET FOR THAT USE. THAT MAY EVEN BE TIPPING A LITTLE BIT HIGH. IT MAY EVEN BE CLOSER TO EIGHT TO 10. AND THIS IS WHERE YOU WANT THE FLEXIBILITY. ESPECIALLY IF, UM, IF IT'S A COM, YOU KNOW, COMBINED WITH A TOWN HOME, IF THEY CAN ONLY SUPPORT 8,000, THEN IT'S JUST 8,000, UH, YOU KNOW, WITH TOWN HOMES ABOVE IT OR APARTMENTS ABOVE IT. BUT LET THEM, YOU KNOW, KIND OF HAVE THAT FLEXIBILITY TO KIND OF DIAL IN WHAT THEY THINK THE RETAIL'S GONNA ACTUALLY SUPPORT. IT COULD ALSO BE, YOU KNOW, GALLERIES A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS, BUT AGAIN, THIS IS VERY MUCH A SMALL SCALE, RIGHT? THE MIXED USE ALTERNATE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. THAT'S IF THE CITY WANTED TO LOOK AT AN, UH, BASICALLY AS AN EMPLOYMENT AREA. SO WE ENDED UP TESTING A COUPLE DIFFERENT WIVES AND WE'LL SHOW THESE ON PLAN IN A FEW MINUTES. THAT'S ANYWHERE FROM 40,000 TO 80,000 SQUARE FEET. THOSE ARE 10,000 SQUARE FOOT FOOTPRINTS. TWO STORY. BUT JUST KNOW THAT THERE'S A PARKING LOAD ASSOCIATED WITH THAT. EVEN AT FOUR PER THOUSAND, YOU'RE PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE TALKING, UH, 320 PARKING SPACES, WHICH AUTOMATICALLY KICKS IN A PARKING GARAGE. BUT AGAIN, WHAT THIS ALLOWS YOU TO DO IS JUST, IT'S JUST A WAY OF LOOKING AT THE PIECE OF LAND DIFFERENTLY. UH, AND I'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT EVEN PHASING ON HOW THE CITY MAY TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THIS, BECAUSE YOUR MOST VALUABLE PIECE OF LAND IS THAT LAND THAT'S ALONG 89 A BY FAR, AS YOU MOVE FURTHER INTO THE, UH, BASICALLY INTO THE, UH, DEVELOPMENT AS FAR AS COMMERCIAL OR RETAIL VALUE, IT DIMINISHES MM-HMM . BUT THIS COULD ALSO BE EMPLOYMENT TECH CENTER, IT COULD BE GALLERIES, MUSEUMS, AND IT COULD STILL BE A MIX. I MEAN, IT COULD ONLY HAVE SAY, 30,000 SQUARE FEET IN THE REST TOWN HOMES. SO, LIKE I SAID, IT JUST GIVES YOU THE FLEX AND THAT'S WHY WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT ONE AREA IS CALLED MIXED USE. DID THE ACREAGE STAY THE SAME IN THE BOTH? THEY DID, YES. CONCEPTS THEY DID, YES. AND WHAT WAS THAT FOR? UH, WHAT WAS THAT? THERE WERE TWO, THERE WERE LIKE TWO PARCELS. THERE WERE TWO PARCELS. I THINK ONE OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD IS LIKE 1.3 ACRES. THE OTHER ONE'S 2.2 ACRES. OH, OKAY. SO UNDER FOUR. YEAH, IT'S RIGHT AROUND THAT AREA. YEAH. OKAY. MM-HMM . YEAH. 2.3 1.1. YEAH. THIS ONE'S, UM, SO BEAR WITH ME ON THE COMMUNITY BENEFIT AREA BECAUSE, SO RIGHT NOW WE SIZE IT ABOUT FOUR AND A HALF ACRES. AND SO THERE'S A NUMBER OF OPTIONS AND WE'RE NOT REALLY SHOWING ONE OR THE OTHER ON THE PLANTS, BUT YOU HAVE OPTIONS IN HERE. SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU HAVE, UH, IT'S FOUR AND A HALF ACRES, THAT'S JUST ALL OPEN FLEX SPACE, YOU COULD ACCOMMODATE EVENTS, YOU COULD ACCOMMODATE A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS. BASICALLY FESTIVALS UP TO 775 PEOPLE IS WHAT WE'VE CALCULATED IN. THAT WOULD ALSO ALLOW UP TO 310 PARKING SPACES, JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, THE TWO AND A HALF OUTTA THE FOUR AND A HALF ACRES, TWO AND A HALF ACRES WOULD BE PARKING. SO AGAIN, THAT'S SORT OF THE HIT ON SOME OF THESE AREAS. MM-HMM . AND AGAIN, IT'S JUST THIS, THE TYPE OF PARKING, RIGHT? MM-HMM . MM-HMM . THE OTHER WAY YOU CAN LOOK AT IS IF YOU WENT TO A REC CENTER, IT'S USUALLY ABOUT THREE ACRES OR SO, INCLUDED IN, THAT'S ABOUT A HUNDRED SPACES. THEY USUALLY ARE 120, A HUNDRED TO 120 SPACES. FOR A REC CENTER, IT WOULD ALLOW YOU, UH, ONE AND A BASICALLY ANOTHER ACRE AND A HALF OF PARK AND PARKING. SO EVEN WITH THE REC CENTER IN THAT SAME FOUR AND A HALF ACRES, YOU COULD STILL ACCOMMODATE A 400 PERSON, YOU KNOW, EVENT ON THAT SPOT. AND AGAIN, YOU'RE COMBINING THE PARKING FOR THE REC CENTER AND YOU'RE ACTUALLY, YOU BASICALLY, YOU'RE ADDING 60 MORE SPACES. SO THOSE TWO KIND OF WORK TOGETHER. AND THEN WE JUST WENT AHEAD AND, AND SHOWED IF, IF YOU REALLY WANTED LIKE A RESTAURANT OR COFFEE SHOP THAT COULD BE PART OF REC CENTER, THOSE TYPICALLY ARE AROUND THREE TO 5,000 SQUARE SQUARE FEET. YOU USUALLY DON'T SEE 'EM MUCH OVER THREE. SO IF THERE'S A DESTINATION HOTEL OR BASICALLY A RESTAURANT, OBVIOUSLY, THEN THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE TAKEN UP IN THE, UH, PARKING CALCULATION AGAIN. AND THAT COULD BE SHARED PARKING OR SO MM-HMM . BUT I JUST WANNA GIVE YOU SORT OF A HEADS UP ON SORT OF HOW MUCH YOU CAN ACCOMMODATE WITHIN THE FOUR AND A HALF ACRES, WHETHER IT'S SORT OF A, YOU KNOW, A FULL EVENT SPACE, 775 PEOPLE. YOU COULD PROBABLY GET A THOUSAND PEOPLE IF YOU REALLY, YOU KNOW, PUSHED IT. OR IF YOU WENT A REC CENTER, YOU STILL HAVE A SPACE THAT COULD PROBABLY ACCOMMODATE, YOU KNOW, FOUR TO 500 PEOPLE. SO WE'D BE LOOKING AT WHAT THE PERMANENT POPULATION OF THE [01:00:01] SITE WOULD BE AND WHAT THE ADD-ON WOULD BE. MM-HMM . WHAT'S THE, HOW MUCH CAN BARBARA ANDERSON THE AMPHITHEATER WE HAVE NOW, HYPOTHETICALLY, SEE, I THINK IT'S AROUND 300. OKAY. THANKS. I HAVE NO IDEA. CONCEPT SEVEN 50, IT'S BACK. RIGHT? ALSO, UH, COMBINED IN THIS, ESPECIALLY SINCE IT'S SO CLOSE TO THE, UH, WESTERN GATE TRAILHEAD, UH, ALSO HAVE A SHUTTLE STOP AND POSSIBLY PUBLIC TRANSFERRED EVEN, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY A TRANSIT STOP THERE TOO WOULD BE IDEAL. OPEN SPACE, AND I'VE ALREADY KIND OF QUOTED THIS ALREADY IN THE PROGRAM WE HAVE ABOUT, AND, AND THIS IS REALLY BASICALLY ALL BASED ON VIEW SHEDS, UH, THAT ARE PROTECTED COMING OFF THE 89 A ON THE VERY SOUTHWEST CORNER, ALL THE WAY TO 15% SLOPES. WE ALREADY HAVE PROBABLY, UH, ANYWHERE FROM 12 TO 14 ACRES THAT REALLY ARE ALREADY OPEN SPACE. AND AGAIN, IT'S NOT, UH, WE'RE NOT SEEING IT AS NATURAL AREA, OPEN SPACE, MEANING NOT TOUCH. WE STILL THINK THERE'S PROBABLY TRAILS AND OTHER KIND OF AMENITIES THAT ACTUALLY COULD BE IN THAT AREA. BUT AGAIN, JUST LET YOU KNOW, THAT'S ABOUT WHAT THE ACRES JUST TAKEN UP. AND AGAIN, WE'VE GOT ABOUT 10 ACRES AND JUST 15% SLOPE. SO A LOT OF THE SITE IS THAT PORTION OF THE SITE'S REALLY NOT DEVELOPABLE. UH, I MENTIONED A NEIGHBORHOOD PARK, WHICH IS REALLY IMPORTANT ONCE YOU START ADDING, UH, A NUMBER OF UNITS THAT IT'S NOT SO MUCH A, UH, A COMMUNITY PARK, BUT IT'S REALLY A NEIGHBORHOOD PARK ABOUT WHERE FAMILIES CAN, YOU KNOW, MEET AND, AND REALLY RECREATE AND REALLY GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER. AND THOSE ARE REALLY USUALLY BETWEEN A HALF TO ONE ACRE. I PREFER TO SEE IT AROUND ONE ACRE OR SO. AND ONE OF THE AREAS WE, YOU KNOW, IDENTIFIED IT WAS ONE OF THE COMMENTS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S THE TERRORIST AREA ALREADY THAT'S THERE AND IT, IT'S KIND OF ALREADY BREAKS UP IN NICE BANDS AND WHETHER YOU HAVE A SMALL DOG PARK IN ONE OR WHATEVER ELSE, THERE'S A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY THERE. BUT AGAIN, I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE LOCAL COMMUNITY, MEANING THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE COMMUNITY. SO MM-HMM . COMMUNITY. AND I THINK THOSE ARE, AND AGAIN, IT'S NOT SO MUCH THE O THE THE OVERALL COMMUNITY WOULDN'T BE INVITED TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT THEN THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS REALLY ALL ABOUT THE NEIGHBORHOOD KIND OF PARKS. AND THEN THERE'S, UH, THERE'S QUITE A FEW QUESTIONS AND, AND ACTUALLY, UH, COMMENTS ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE A BUFFER, UH, ESPECIALLY AGAINST SOME OF THE EXISTING TRAILS. MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE DEVELOPMENT TOO CLOSE. ALSO, THERE'S A FIRE, WILD AND FIRE, UH, CONCERN. AND SO WHETHER, YOU KNOW, WHAT KIND OF BUFFER IS THAT? IS THAT A PARKING OR IS IT A CLEAR ZONE OR WHATEVER ELSE TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T HAVE THAT ISSUE. UM, AND THEN ONE OF THE OTHER QUESTIONS, OR BASICALLY ONE OF THE NEEDS, AND I MENTIONED ALREADY IS BASICALLY A ONE ACRE SITE FOR A, UM, A WATER TANK THAT WE'VE KIND OF STRATEGICALLY LOCATED IN THE BACKSIDE OF THE HILL, UH, TO HOPEFULLY MINIMIZE ANY KIND OF IMPACT. BUT THAT COULD HAVE A, WELL, OR IT COULD BE JUST A CAPACITY TANK TOO. SO, ALRIGHT. AND THEN WE HAD MENTIONED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE ADOT ACCESS POINT TOO, WHICH IS STILL YET TO BE DETERMINED. SO GOING ON TO THE PREFERRED ALTERNATIVE. SO THIS IS HOW IT STARTED BREAKING DOWN. UH, THESE ARE BIG BLOCKS AND THIS IS WHAT YOU WOULD TYPICALLY ALMOST PUT INTO AN RFP RATHER THAN THE ILLUSTRATIVE. AND WHAT IT IS, IT STARTS TALKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENT ZONES AND DIFFERENT AREAS AND DIFFERENT HEIGHTS. SO, UM, A LOT OF LAND USE INFORMATION ON THIS. I DON'T EXPECT YOU GUYS TO GO ALL THE WAY THROUGH THIS PORTION OF IT, BUT YOU'LL SEE ABOUT, UH, 17% OF THE SITE WILL ACTUALLY BE FOR DEVELOPMENT. THERE WERE OTHER PORTION OF IT WOULD BE FOR, UM, EXCUSE ME, 40, EXCUSE ME, 44. LEMME GRAB MY OTHER. YEP. I, AND WHILE JAY'S LOOKING AT THAT, I DO JUST WANNA POINT OUT THAT SINCE WE SUBMITTED, SINCE YOU, WE SENT OUT THE PACKET AND TODAY WE DID HAVE ANOTHER MEETING WITH THE FOREST SERVICE. AND SO ONE CHANGE THAT YOU WILL SEE IS, UM, THE TRAIL OVERLOOK, UM, KIND OF AT THE TOP OF, YOU KNOW, AS IT GOES INTO THE FOREST, THAT WAS NOT ON THE PLANS THAT YOU HAVE, BUT IN TALKING WITH THE FOREST SERVICE AND SOME OF THEIR PLANS, UM, THAT AREA NEEDS TO, THAT'S WHERE THE TRAILS CURRENTLY, UM, ENTER AND EXIT THE PROPERTY. THEY HAVE NO PLANS TO CHANGE THAT. SO WE DID WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE GIVING THAT TRAIL ACCESS THERE. AND SO THAT, THAT IS ONE CHANGE FROM WHAT WAS IN YOUR PACKET TO WHAT YOU SEE HERE. THANK YOU. YEP. SO WHAT YOU SEE UP HERE RIGHT NOW IS ABOUT 44% OF THE SITE RIGHT NOW ACTUALLY HAS HOUSING ON IT. UH, THE OTHER 56 OR SO IS FOR COMMUNITY BENEFIT PARKS AND INFRASTRUCTURE. SO THAT'S WHAT KIND OF MAKES UP THE OTHER PORTIONS OF THAT. BUT THE OVERALL QUOTE DEVELOPMENT, I WOULD SAY, UH, WITH HOUSING AND INFRASTRUCTURE, MEANING ROADS IS ABOUT 60% OF THE SITE. AND THE BREAKDOWN WE'VE, UH, PUT THROUGH IS, YOU KNOW, YOU SEE THE APARTMENTS, UH, TWO TO THREE STORY ABOUT NINE OR 10%. TOWN HOMES ARE ABOUT SIX, UH, 6%. BUT REALLY THE, THE BIGGER, LARGER PIECE IS REALLY THE APARTMENT HOMES, BASICALLY THAT PORTION IS, IS [01:05:01] BASICALLY AROUND 21%. AND EACH ONE OF THOSE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BREAKDOWN ON EACH ONE OF THE, HOW THE BLOCK SIZE OF THE UNITS. BUT WHAT I WAS SAYING, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU TYPICALLY WOULD HAVE AN RFP, THIS STARTS SETTING SORT OF YOUR PARAMETERS THAT WOULD START SETTING WHAT A DEVELOPER WOULD LOOK AT. UM, OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE, UH, GUIDELINES FOR ARCHITECTURAL AND SITE PLANNING AND ALL THOSE KIND OF THINGS, BUT WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT IS HOW TO REALLY LOOK AT THIS PARCEL ON BASICALLY HOUSING NEED. AND SO GIVING THEM THE FLEXIBILITY FOR CERTAIN HEIGHTS AND DENSITIES HELPS THEM WORK THROUGH THOSE KIND OF NUMBERS. BECAUSE FOR US TO SIT HERE TODAY AND, AND SAY THIS IS WHAT THE DEVELOPER WILL DO, A, B, C, D, THE MARKET CHANGES EVERY DAY, INCLUDING MAYBE TOMORROW. SO IT'S HARD TO TELL WHAT THAT'S AT. AND WE WOULD ANTICIPATE THAT A DEVELOPER WOULD DO THEIR OWN MARKET RESEARCH STUDY. THEY WOULD COME BACK AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE THINK COULD ACTUALLY, FROM AN AFFORDABLE STANDPOINT, ATTAINABLE AND MARKET RATE SHOULD BE. AND THIS IS THE MIX. SO THAT'S THE CONVERSATION THAT WOULD START THAT WHOLE CONVERSATION ON THE SITE PLAN. MM-HMM . WHICH YOU'RE USED TO SEEING AT THIS COUNCIL P AND Z MEETING. SO, AND THEN THE WAY THIS, UH, LOOKS, OH, ONE OF THE, UH, THING I WANTED TO POINT OUT IS ALONG 89 A, UH, THERE'S CURRENT, UM, A QUASI BUFFER THAT REALLY OCCURS ALONG THAT WHOLE CORRIDOR. AND YOU REALLY WANT US TO PROBABLY STAY IN THAT NO MORE THAN TWO STORY AND STEP BACK AND THEN STEP UP OR WHATEVER MM-HMM . AND WE'VE NOTICED THAT, YOU KNOW, OVER AND OVER AND WHETHER IT'S COMING IN, YOU KNOW, FROM I 17, WHICH IS MUCH MORE STRICT, YOU KNOW, SORT OF VISUAL ANALYSIS AREA VERSUS 89 A, BUT AGAIN, YOU HAVE THAT STILL THAT STEPPED BACK AND THEN BEFORE THE BUILDINGS ACTUALLY START. SO WE'VE ALREADY IDENTIFIED A HUNDRED FOOT SETBACK ALREADY WITHIN THE PLAN. ALRIGHT. AND THEN HOW THIS LOOKS ON PAPER, AND AGAIN, THIS IS SORT OF OUR LAYOUT, UH, OF WHAT THIS PRODUCT COULD LOOK AND WE LIKE TO USE FOOTPRINTS THAT WE HAVE, UH, COMPS FROM. SO WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE REAL FOOTPRINTS. SO THAT'S WHEN YOU START SEEING THE TWO AND THREE STORY AND THREE AND FOUR STORY BUILDINGS. AND AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, EVEN ON THESE NUMBERS AT 4 82, UM, THESE ARE SHOWN AS FOUR STORY APARTMENTS, WHICH IS THE FIRST, THE FIRST THREE BUILDINGS OR THE FIRST THREE COMPLEXES AT THE TOP AND THE ONE KIND OF IN THE CENTER BY THE NEIGHBORHOOD PARK. UH, CHANGING THAT TO THREE STORY AUTOMATICALLY LOSES 80 UNITS. JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, JUST THE IMPACT OF THOSE KIND OF THINGS. SO WE LIKE THIS FROM THE STANDPOINT OF JUST THE MIX THAT WE GET FROM THE STANDPOINT OF, UH, FOR SALE, FOR RENT AND THE THREE DIFFERENT PRODUCT TYPES. AND THE VARIATION YOU COULD HAVE, ESPECIALLY ON THE, ON THE TWO STORY APARTMENTS. AND AGAIN, WHETHER THE AREA UP AROUND SUMMIT TIMESHARES BECOMES APARTMENTS OR ASSISTED AND INDEPENDENT LIVING. I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF FLEXIBILITY THERE. AND THEN THE COMMUNITY BENEFIT AREA, WE'VE LISTED A NUMBER OF THINGS IN THERE. I WENT THROUGH THAT PROGRAM, PIECES OF WHAT IF ONE THING OR THE OTHER, BUT WE'VE KIND OF ALLOTTED ABOUT 4.2 ACRES. WE HOPE THAT, UH, A PARTNERSHIP WITH THE US FOREST SERVICE COULD ALSO LOOK AT THE, WHERE IT SAYS WESTERN GATEWAY TRAIL HAD THAT LITTLE GREEN KIND OF, WE HAVE A LITTLE KEY WHERE THEY KIND OF KEY IN. WE THINK THERE WOULD BE MAYBE SOME MUTUAL USE OF THAT TO WHERE THEY COULD ACTUALLY HAVE A FLUSHING TOILET RATHER THAN, UH, SOMETHING LIKE THAT OR ADDITIONAL PARKING. SO, UH, BUT ANYWAY, SO THERE'S SOME THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT AGAIN, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE UTILIZE TO RUN THESE NUMBERS TO SEE WHAT WE TRULY CAN GET ON THE SITE. WHAT MAKES SENSE. SO, ALRIGHT, I I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION. UM, THE PRESENTATION THAT YOU'RE DOING RIGHT NOW, THE UNIT NUMBER IS VERY DIFFERENT OR NOT VERY DIFFERENT, BUT IT'S DIFFERENT THAN THE UNIT NUMBER THAT I HAVE IN OUR, IN OUR PACKET. OUR PACKET SHOWING THAT THE UNIT NUMBER IS 5 0 5 AND THIS IS SHOWING FORCE 82. WE DID, YEAH. SO WHEN WE TOOK OUT, I'M SORRY, THE TRAIL OVERLOOK. YEAH, I LOST A FEW UNITS. OKAY. YES. OKAY, GREAT. THANK YOU. OH YEAH, AND THE ALTERNATIVE, I THINK WE'RE SHOWING 5 0 5, WHICH IS A LITTLE BIT HIGHER TOO. SO THERE MAY BE JUST A SLIGHT DIFFERENCE IN THOSE NUMBERS, BUT NOT DRASTICALLY. OKAY. THANK YOU. NO, THANK YOU. UM, OH, I SEE. 'CAUSE THE TRIAL OVERLOOK IS OVER HERE, SO I SEE THAT. THANK YOU. IS IT ASSUMED THAT ALL OF THE, ALL OF THIS HOUSING WILL BE, UM, SURFACE PARKED IN THESE TWO? AND WHERE, WHERE DO YOU ANTICIPATE THAT SURFACE PARKING? OBVIOUSLY SOME OF THE CONDOS AND STUFF WILL HAVE GARAGES, BUT LIKE THE, THE FOUR STORY APARTMENT COMPLEXES WHERE YOU ANTICIPATE THE PARKING, RIGHT. WE ACTUALLY HAVE ALREADY CALCULATED THE PARKING NOW THE SURFACE PARKING, AND THAT'S AT 1.5. 1.5 PER UNIT. I'M SORRY, PER UNIT? PER UNIT? YES. PER UNIT. AND WHAT'S CODE REQUIRE? UH, IT DEPENDS ON THE SIZE OF THE UNIT, BUT AT 1.5 IS A GOOD AVERAGE. YEAH, BUT WHERE, WHERE I, I UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW HOW MANY YOU NEED. NO, IT'S THE GRAY YOU SEE AROUND THE OUTSIDE BETWEEN 'EM, THOSE ARE ALL PARKING LOTS THROUGH THOSE ZONES AND NOT ROADS. YEAH, YEAH. YEAH. I I KIND OF JUST VIEWED THEM AS LIKE, UH, FIRE DEPARTMENT ACCESS. OH YEAH. 'CAUSE I KNOW THERE'S LOTS OF, LOTS [01:10:01] TO BE TURNED WITH A FIRE TRUCK. , YOU HAVE EXPERIENCE. ALRIGHT, ALRIGHT. NO, THAT'S BASICALLY WHERE YOU SEE THE SURFACE PARKING THERE. BUT AGAIN, A, A DEVELOPER ALSO MAY LOOK AT IT THAT IT'S MORE COST EFFECTIVE TO DO, UH, BASICALLY TUCK UNDER PARKING TOO. DO A PODIUM BUILDING, YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY HAVE A FIRST FLOOR PARK IN THEN GO UP, YOU KNOW, WITH THREE STORIES TOO. SO I'D BE INTERESTED IN OUR CONVERSATION TO TALK MORE ABOUT A CENTRALIZED PARKING GARAGE. I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED WITH THE JUST AREA OF PAVEMENT THAT WILL BE DEDICATED TO PARKING. AND THE, MY UNDERSTANDING OF BEST PRACTICES AND PLANNING NOW IS LIKE DESIGNING PARKING GARAGES THAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE REDEVELOPED IN THE FUTURE IS, YOU KNOW, A, A NOT A BAD PLAN. UM, THINKING ABOUT THE TOWNS AND COMMUNITIES LIKE TEMPE THAT ARE DOING NO CAR HOUSING SITUATIONS, WE OBVIOUSLY DON'T HAVE THE TRANSIT FOR THAT IN THIS EXACT MOMENT. UM, BUT IF WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT TRAFFIC IN A REAL WAY, CENTRALIZED PARKING MAY BE A WAY FOR US TO TALK ABOUT HOW THIS CAN HELP IN THE FUTURE. SO THAT IS, I HAVE, I HAVE SURFACE PARKING ON MY MIND, SO, UM, SURE. NO, THAT'S, THAT'S A GOOD COMMENT. I THINK IT, IT GOES INTO JUST THE COST OF COURSE. RIGHT? AND THAT'S IT. AND AGAIN, IF IT'S, UM, IT'S A HIGHER DENSITY, A LOT OF TIMES YOU'LL SEE LITERALLY THE PARKING ON THE FIRST TWO FLOORS, YOU KNOW, THEN THEY BASICALLY HAVE AN AMENITY DECK, TWO STORIES ABOVE IT, FOUR STORIES WRAPAROUND, SO THE PARKING'S TUCKED UNDERNEATH IT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF INSIDE OF IT OR, SO ALL THOSE HAVE DIFFERENT COSTS IMPLICATION, YOU KNOW, TO A DEVELOPER. AND I THINK THAT'S KIND OF FLEXIBILITY, YOU KNOW, YOU PROBABLY WANT TO GIVE THE DEVELOPER, BUT IF YOU DO SURFACE PARKING, OBVIOUSLY ALL THE CODES NEED TO BE THERE TO MAKE SURE YOU BREAK IT DOWN. SO YEAH, I GUESS THAT'S MY CONCERN IS OUR CURRENT BUILDING CODE ALLOWING FOR FLEXIBLE PARKING. MM-HMM . I DON'T KNOW OUR CODE THAT WELL, BUT I'D BE WORRIED THAT A DEVELOPER WOULD BE, WOULD STICK WITH SURFACE PARKING BECAUSE IT WILL BE ULTIMATELY EASIER THAN FIGURING OUT OUR BUILDING. THIS IS WAY TOO NITPICKY TO GET INTO RIGHT NOW. I'M WORRIED ABOUT THIS AMOUNT OF PAYMENT . YEAH, SURE. BUT CAN YOU IMAGINE A FOUR STORY APARTMENT BUILDING AND YOU'RE TOTING YOUR GROCERIES FROM A PARKING GARAGE? I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT'S THE ONLY PARKING AT ALL. UM, I'M SAYING THAT I, I HOPE OUR WORLD IS MOVING TOWARDS LESS CAR DEPENDENCY, RIGHT? AND I THINK THAT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A PROJECT THAT COULD TAKE 15 YEARS TO COMPLETE, WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE HOPE LIFE IS LIKE IN 15 YEARS AS WELL AS LIKE, I MEAN, I WISH HANUKKAH WAS HERE SO I COULD LOOK AT HER WHEN I TALK ABOUT RUNOFF, BUT LIKE , THIS ISN'T UN BASICALLY UNDEVELOPED PARCEL. AND IF WE CAN REDUCE THE RUNOFF ISSUES, I THINK THAT'S ALWAYS A BENEFIT TO OUR ECOLOGICAL LANDSCAPE TOO. SO I JUST, PARKING IS NOTED. COMPLICATED. NOTED. YEAH, NO, THAT IS, THAT'S, I MEAN IT'S A GOOD POINT BECAUSE I THINK WE START TALKING CUL-DE-SAC OR SOME OF THE ONES, EVEN AROUND RAIL STATIONS IN PHOENIX, THEY'RE AT 0.25 PARKING SPACES PER UNIT, SO THEY'RE REALLY DOWN THERE, RIGHT? MM-HMM . UM, SOMETIMES THAT WORKS AND SOMETIMES IT JUST FORCES PARKING INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD TOO. SO, BUT LIKE I SAID, BUT EITHER WAY IT'S ONE OF THOSE. BUT LIKE I SAY, I THINK DEPENDING LITERALLY ON HOW A DEVELOPER WOULD LOOK AT THAT, IT MAY BE COST EFFECTIVE. THEY ACTUALLY PUT INTERIOR PARKING TOO AND JUST KNOWING THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GO FROM LITERALLY FROM YOUR UH, TRUNK RIGHT INTO AN ELEVATOR AND UP TO YOUR UNIT IS VERY HANDY RATHER THAN CARRYING THINGS ACROSS THE LAWN, SO TO SPEAK. SO YEAH. YEAH, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY THAT THAT'S WHY THAT THIS IS MORE THE PLAN THAT WOULD BE IN THE MASTER PLAN AND WHAT WOULD BE USED FOR AN RFP BECAUSE WE WOULD BE GIVING THE DEVELOPERS THE FLEXIBILITY TO PROPOSE WHAT WORKS BEST. ALRIGHT. OKAY. LET ME JUST SHOW THIS AS A COMPARISON. SO THE NEXT ONE IS REALLY LOOKING AT THIS MIXED USE BLOCK. SO REALLY THE ONLY CHANGE BETWEEN THE TWO IS YOU SEE, UM, APARTMENTS FOUR STORY THAT'S RIGHT ABOVE BLOCK SEVEN. SO WE'RE TALKING BLOCK TWO. THAT ONE CHANGED FROM BASICALLY A TOWN HOME TO AN APARTMENT JUST TO GET THE, BASICALLY THE DENSITY BACK UP AS FAR AS THE HOUSING UNITS AND THEN ALLOWING THE MIXED USE BLOCK TO BECOME MORE OF EMPLOYMENT AND OFFICE USE IN THAT ZONE. SO THAT'S REALLY THE ONLY TRUE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE. SO IN THIS, UH, ILLUSTRATIVE, SO YOU SEE WHERE, UH, RIGHT ABOVE WHERE IT SAYS APARTMENTS FOUR STORY, THAT'S WHERE WE GAIN THE UNITS BACK AGAIN AND AGAIN, IT'S MORE OF APARTMENTS. IT STILL COULD BE A CONDO UNIT EVEN THOUGH IT'S A HIGH CONDO UNIT. UM, BUT ALSO WE START LOOKING AT NOW THE FOOT PLATES AND WE JUST DID 10,000 SQUARE FOOT, YOU KNOW, FOOTPRINTS MM-HMM . ON THESE BUILDINGS. AND THAT'S HOW WE CAME UP WITH THE 80, WHICH IS A PRETTY STANDARD FOOTPRINT. MM. BUT AGAIN, WE JUST WANTED TO SEE WHAT IT WOULD TAKE [01:15:01] TO WHAT YOU NEED TO GENERATE AS FAR AS PARKING. AND AGAIN, AT FOUR SPACE, I MEAN YOU'RE TALKING 320 SPACES, WHICH AUTOMATICALLY PUTS YOU INTO A GARAGE. SO AGAIN, THIS IS, BUT IT IS AN INTERESTING CONCEPT BECAUSE THIS PIECE OF LAND, LIKE I MENTIONED, IS PROBABLY YOUR MOST VALUABLE PIECE OF LAND THAT YOU HAVE JUST BECAUSE OF ITS FRONTAGE. AND SO IF YOU WERE LOOKING TO PHASE A PROJECT AND SAY YOU HAD A MASTER DEVELOPER OR YOU ACTUALLY HAVE INDIVIDUAL PARCELS, YOU'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, UTILITIES THAT WOULD HAVE TO STILL BE RAN THROUGH THIS SITE OF SOMEHOW AND PROBABLY A ROAD, BUT YOU COULD DEVELOP, YOU KNOW, FURTHER BACK SO TO SPEAK. AND THEN LET THAT PIECE PLAY OUT AS FAR AS WHAT USE WANTS TO BE. BECAUSE YOU, AGAIN, BY THE TIME YOU START THIS PROCESS, IT MAY BE 10 YEARS BEFORE IT'S ALL COMPLETED. THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY MAY HAVE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT USE OR VALUE AT THAT POINT. OR YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND BACKFILL IT IN WITH MORE RESIDENTIAL. AND I THINK IT REALLY DEPENDS ON HOW THE TERM VALUES AND BEING INTERPRETED. YES. WHETHER IT'S VALUE JUST LOOKING AT MAKING MONEY OR VALUE FOR THE COMMUNITY, WHICH COULD BE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS. YES. SO I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE AS WELL. THAT'S A GOOD POINT. THAT'S A VERY GOOD POINT. SO THAT'S THE TRUE, THAT'S THE TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF, AGAIN, THAT'S ALL THE USES, UM, VERY THINGS IS PRETTY CLOSE TO THE SAME AS FAR AS THE LAYOUT OTHER THAN, LIKE I SAID, THAT'S THE ONLY KIND OF PIECE THAT ACTUALLY CHANGES BETWEEN THEM, JUST TO SHOW YOU THE FLEXIBILITY. SO I DO HAVE, UH, SOME CROSS SECTIONS IF ANYBODY, ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THESE? OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO WE FELT IT WAS IMPORTANT JUST TO GO THROUGH SOME CROSS SECTIONS TO SHOW YOU WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE THROUGH. AND SO THE FIRST ONE IS WHAT WE'RE CALLING SECTION A, WHICH IS THE FAR WEST SIDE. AND YOU SEE THIS BIG BLACK DASH LINE THAT'S ON THE, UH, ON THE PLAN. AND THEN YOU SEE THIS KIND OF OVAL WITH A, WITH A UM, UH, KIND OF A BLUE TRIANGLE. SO WE'RE ON THAT SIDE OF THE LINE LOOKING WEST. CAN YOU, IS THERE A WAY TO BLOW UP THE SLIDE THAT SHOWS US THAT TOP, UM, CROSS SECTION PIECE? OH, THERE MAY BE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. SO, YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH, THEY'RE OH, YOU HAVE THE PDF? YEAH. OKAY, GOOD. OKAY, GOOD. YEAH, WE CURRENTLY HAVE A MODEL BUILT OF THE SITE THAT YOU'VE SEEN. SO WE'VE GOT EVERYTHING ON IT. AND AGAIN, WHAT WE TRIED TO DO IS NOT TO PUT A LOT OF EMBELLISHMENT ON THE ARCHITECTURE AND WE'VE KEPT TREES, MASSES OFF BECAUSE SOMETIMES THAT CAN BE, UM, WE CAN HIDE THINGS, LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY. AND WE WANNA MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTOOD SORT OF HEIGHT RELATIONSHIPS AND THE MASSING THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. MM-HMM . MM-HMM . ALRIGHT. THANK YOU CARRIE. YEAH. AND IF YOU GO BACK TO THE LEFT TOWARDS 89 A, WE'LL GET IT KIND OF, DO WE SEE THE ROADWAY IN THERE? THERE'S THE ROADWAY RIGHT HERE. OKAY. SO THIS, WHAT THE REASON WHY WE PUT THIS ONE HERE JUST TO SHOW SORT OF HOW THE UNITS WOULD BE DEVELOPED WITHIN THAT AREA. MM-HMM . SO THIS IS LITERALLY ALONG, LITERALLY ALMOST YOUR, YOUR PROPERTY ALONG THE VERY FAR WEST. IN FACT, IT EVEN CUTS THROUGH SOME UNITS UP THERE. SO YOU'LL START SEEING ONLY THE ONE APARTMENT COMPLEX, WHICH IS OVER TO THE RIGHT. THE OTHER TWO ARE KIND OF FORWARD OF IT, BUT YOU CAN SEE SORT OF THE, THE LAND AS IT ROLLS UP BEHIND IT. AND THEN IS THAT BLOCK NINE YOU'RE REFERRING TO? UH, YES. THAT IS VISIBLE. THAT IS BLOCK THE TWO AND THREE STORY ON THE, YEAH. SO NORTHEAST CORNER, WHAT YOU'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW ON THE, WELL, ON THE RIGHT, YOU'RE ACTUALLY SEEING THE FOUR STORY APARTMENTS IN BLOCK ONE, AND THEN YOU HAVE THE TANK WATER TANK, AND THEN YOU HAVE THE TOWN HOMES THAT ARE ON, UH, BLOCK FIVE THAT IT SEEMS TO BE REVERSED. IT'S, YEAH, IT'S THIS LINE. LOOK, LOOKING THAT WAY. REMEMBER IT'S LOOKING BACK TOWARD THE WEST. MM-HMM . YEAH. RIGHT. UM, I THOUGHT WE WERE SAYING WE WERE LOOKING FROM 99 A. NO, IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T, I I THINK IT'S FLIPPED. NO, ACTUALLY IF YOU, IF YOU LOOK AT OR HELP ME UNDERSTAND THAT BETTER, . SO IF YOU WERE, IF YOU CUT THE SITE YOU'RE STANDING AT AND YOU LOOK THIS WAY, OKAY, THAT'S WHAT YOU WOULD BE LOOKING AT. THANK YOU. AND THEN WE'LL BE DOING THE SAME THING ON EACH ONE. OKAY. SECTIONS A LITTLE BIT. ALRIGHT. YEAH. MM-HMM . BUT WE DO LIKE 'EM FROM THE STANDPOINT OF BEING ABLE TO, UM, TO SHOW THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN, [01:20:01] AND THESE ARE NOT EXAGGERATED BY THE WAY. THEY'RE NOT, A LOT OF TIMES YOU'LL SEE SECTIONS THAT ARE EXAGGERATED VERTICALLY. THESE ARE ALL, UH, BASICALLY ONE-TO-ONE. SO NEXT PAGE. MM-HMM . SO THE SECOND ONE WILL ACTUALLY SHOW YOU NOW A LITTLE BIT MORE. AND THIS ONE'S PRETTY TELLING, UH, SO RIGHT IN THE CENTER YOU'LL SEE SOME APARTMENT COMPLEXES, BUT YOU ALSO SEE THAT ONE ROW, GOSH, I'VE GOT A POINT HERE. SO , SHE'S GOT A POINTER. I THINK IF YOU NEED IT, WHAT YOU'RE GONNA SEE, YOU'RE GONNA SEE THAT ROW, YOU'RE GONNA SEE THAT APARTMENT COMPLEX AND THAT'S WHAT'S REALLY STARTING TO SHOW WHAT THAT BOWL LOOKS LIKE, THAT SECTION. ALRIGHT, SO NOW THIS WILL START SHOWING A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE MASSING. SO RETAIL MIXED USE. YOU CAN SEE HOW THE TOWN HOMES KIND OF WRAP AROUND ON THE VERY TOP, THE APARTMENTS, HOW THEY KIND OF STACK DOWN BELOW. THESE ARE ALL FOUR STORY. THEY'RE MODELED AT 48 FEET. THE, UH, CONDO OR BASICALLY THE TOWN HOMES ARE ACTUALLY MODELED AT 35 FEET. SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THAT HEIGHT. BUT WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT THIS, THIS IS THAT KIND OF SADDLE AREA RIGHT HERE, YOU CAN SEE THE DROP COMING DOWN AND YOU START SEEING HOW THESE THINGS KIND OF FIT DOWN IN THAT BOWL. SO WE THOUGHT THIS WAS AN IMPORTANT ONE TO SEE JUST THE RELATIONSHIP OF, YOU KNOW, TWO STORY VERSUS THREE VERSUS FOUR EXPANSION. YEP. THIS ONE'S ALMOST ON THE FAR EAST SIDE, SO YOU'RE PROBABLY REALLY CLOSE TO STANDING ON THE CULTURAL PARK PLACE. LOOKING BACK AGAIN TO THE WEST. GOOD. GOT THAT ONE. YEAH, THERE YOU GO. 89 A TO THE, TO THE LEFT. AND THEN YOU HAVE YAVAPI COMMUNITY COLLEGE. IT'S ACTUALLY IN THIS AREA, WHICH YOU CAN SEE IT'S THE ARROW'S KIND OF POINTING TO THE VERY LEFT SIDE OF IT. YOU CAN AGAIN SEE THE, UH, THE CONDOS KIND OF WRAPPING UP. YEP. AND THEN AGAIN, HOW THE APARTMENTS KIND OF FADE OFF IN THE BACK. BUT NOW YOU SEE THE TWO STAR STORY APARTMENTS THAT ARE, UH, ALONG THE EASTERN BOUNDARY. IT'S THE NEXT ONE. OKAY. SO THIS ONE IS ALONG 89 A, WHICH HAS BEEN A, UH, A CONCERN, UH, WE'VE HEARD FROM A NUMBER OF PEOPLE. SO IF YOU ARE CUTTING RIGHT TO THE CENTER LINE OF 89 A, LOOKING BASICALLY NORTH NORTHWEST. SO THIS, THIS ACTUALLY WILL SHOW YOU WHAT LOOKS AT HERE. SO YOU'LL SEE THE INITIAL, UM, RETAIL WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE RETAIL WITH SOMETHING, UH, BASICALLY APARTMENTS ON TOP TOWN HOMES. AND BASICALLY WHAT YOU'LL SEE IS A TOWN HOMES PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE AREA YOU CAN SEE A LITTLE PEEK THROUGH ON THE FOUR STORY APARTMENTS RIGHT BEHIND IT, RIGHT THROUGH THAT ROAD AREA. AND THAT'S ABOUT THE ONLY PLACE YOU WOULD SEE THE TOP OF THE FOUR STORY AGAIN, AS YOU SEE YBA PI COLLEGE, TWO STORY APARTMENTS, UH, BASICALLY BACK TO THE RIGHT. AND THEN THE LAST ONE IS LOOKING, IF YOU WERE IN THE US FOREST SERVICE, LOOKING BACK ON THAT BOUNDARY, THAT'S THE NEXT CUT, NEXT SECTION CUT. AND WHAT YOU HAVE HERE IS TO YOUR LEFT, YOU'LL HAVE THE APARTMENTS. WAIT, SAY THAT AGAIN? YES. YOU'RE ON THE FOREST SERVICE ON THE, YOU'RE ON THE FOREST SERVICE ON THE NORTH SIDE, RIGHT? LOOKING TOWARDS, TOWARDS THE ROAD. YES. YOU'RE LOOKING TOWARD THAT DIRECTION. OKAY. AND SO WHAT THIS ONE REALLY DEMONSTRATES, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, UH, TWO STORY APARTMENTS, PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD, EVEN THE TOWN HOMES, BUT IT ALSO SHOWS A LITTLE BIT OF THE MASSING OF HOW THE APARTMENTS KIND OF COME DOWN IN THAT IT'S ALMOST LIKE A LITTLE BIT OF A RAVINE OR A VALLEY AREA. SO IT REALLY KIND OF CONCEALS THEM DOWN IN THAT AREA. AND THAT'S WHY WE WERE LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, IF WE WERE LOOKING AT THREE STORY OR FOUR STORY, THIS IS WHY WE WERE LOOKING AT IF WE WERE GONNA GO IN HEIGHT, THIS MAY BE THE PLACE TO PUT IT BECAUSE IT'S MORE HIDDEN. NOW, AGAIN, WILL YOU SEE IT FROM THE US FOREST SERVICE SIDE? THERE'S CERTAIN AREAS THAT YOU WILL MM-HMM . JUST TO CLARIFY, UM, THE TWO STORY APARTMENTS, THE ONES ON THE LEFT OF THIS VIEW, IS THAT BLOCK NINE, THAT IS WHAT WE'RE CALLING IT. APARTMENT TWO AND THREE STORY. YES. BLOCK NINE. YES. OKAY. SO THAT'S THE VIEW. IF THEY WERE TWO STORY, IF THEY WERE THREE STORY, IT WOULD BE MUCH MORE VISIBLE Y YES. UH, IN FACT, I THINK WE MAY EVEN HAVE A COUPLE MAYBE POPPED UP TO 35 FEET IN THAT FAR, KIND OF THE LEFT SIDE OF THAT PROBABLY COMING UP A LITTLE BIT. MM-HMM . I THINK THE BIGGEST PART OF THOSE RIGHT NOW ARE MODELED AT TWO. I THINK IT'S HOW WE'VE MODELED IT. PARDON? I THINK WE'VE MODELED THIS MAINLY AT TWO STORY ON THAT SIDE RIGHT NOW. TWO IS GOOD. YEAH. ALRIGHT. [01:25:01] I BELIEVE THAT'S IT. I'LL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS OR GREAT. I THINK THAT WAS, WE NEED A BREAK AND WE CAN GO BACK TO ANY SLIDE THAT YOU WANT TO LOOK AT. NEED A BREAK. IF YOU NEED ME TO SCROLL BACK TO SOMETHING, LET ME KNOW. THANK YOU. HAVE A, I'VE ONLY GOT FIVE, GOT MAYBE FIVE CARDS HERE. MAYBE GO TO THE PUBLIC AND THEN DO A BREAK. YEAH, YEAH. OKAY. UM, WE WERE JUST WHISPERING WHAT WE SHOULD DO NEXT UP HERE. AND I THINK, UM, I THINK I'D LIKE TO, UM, GO TO THE PUBLIC, UM, COMMENT, UH, AND THEN WE'LL TAKE A BREAK AFTER THAT. SO I HAVE, UM, I JUST HAVE FIVE CARDS. IF ANY OF YOU IN THE AUDIENCE HAVE DECIDED SINCE YOU'VE LISTENED TO THIS THAT YOU CARE TO SPEAK, YOU CAN PICK UP A CARD OVER THERE AND, UM, UH, BE ADDED TO THE LIST. OKAY. SO, UM, I WILL CALL, UH, THE FIRST PERSON AND THEN NAME THE SECOND PERSON IF YOU'LL BE ON DECK TO FOLLOW. YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES TO SPEAK. AND IF YOU'LL STATE YOUR NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE, WE'LL START WITH, UH, GUILLERMO MARQUEZ STERLING, FOLLOWED BY, UH, HOLLY JOHNSON. I THINK IT IS. GOOD EVENING. THANK YOU FOR, UH, HAVING ME HERE. AND THANK YOU FOR ALL OF THIS HAS BEEN VERY EDUCATIONAL. I'M THE PASTOR AT CHURCHILL WITH RED ROCKS AND, UM, I'M NEW TO THE AREA AND I'M VERY INTERESTED IN EVERYTHING THAT IS BEING SAID HERE. WANNA LET YOU KNOW ABOUT MY, UH, ABOUT THE CHURCH I'M SERVING AT THE FAITH AND ACTION COMMITTEE. VOTED AND DECIDED THAT HOUSING WOULD BE A PRIMARY FOCUS FOR A LOT OF OUR MISSION AND, UM, AND, AND OUR SOCIAL JUSTICE. AND SO WE HAVE A STRONG COMMITMENT TO THIS CONVERSATION THAT'S HAPPENING HERE, AND WE REALLY ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO IT. ANOTHER THING I WANNA LET YOU KNOW IS THAT, UM, WE'RE GUIDED BY AN ETHOS THAT, UM, WE SAY EVERY SUNDAY MORNING, AND THAT IS WHOEVER YOU ARE OR WHEREVER YOU ARE ON LIFE'S JOURNEY, YOU ARE WELCOMED HERE. AND THAT KIND OF LIKE, UM, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE TRY TO LIVE THROUGH IN EVERYTHING WE'RE AT. AND SO CONSEQUENTLY, AS I AM, UH, DOING MY RESEARCH ON THE CITY COUNCIL HERE AND EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENING, UM, I'M, I'M VERY HAPPY TO HEAR, UM, SOME OF THE LANGUAGE THAT GIVES ME A CLUE OF WHAT YOUR ETHOS IS AND HOW IT IS, IS INFLUENCING YOUR DECISION MAKING. I WAS VERY HAPPY TO HEAR WORDS LIKE FROM A 10,000, UH, UH, FOOT VIEW. WHAT, WHAT'S THIS GONNA LOOK LIKE? I'M VERY INTERESTED TO SEE HOW YOU'RE ANTICIPATING, UM, THE CHANGES THAT ARE HAPPENING BECAUSE THE SMART CITY COUNCIL ANTICIPATES AS A PER VERSUS REACTS AND, UH, BUT ALSO HOW IT IS THAT YOU'RE, I WAS VERY HAPPY TO HEAR THE WORD DIVERSITY, UM, BECAUSE WHEN YOU START TO INCLUDE DIVERSITY, IT, IT KIND OF TELLS ME THAT YOU'RE GONNA BE EQUITABLE AND YOU'RE ALSO GONNA BE INCLUSIVE. SO, UH, THAT'S THE KIND OF STUFF THAT OUR CHURCH IS ALL ABOUT. SO WE'RE VERY HAPPY TO, TO SEE ALL THAT HAPPENING. SO WE'RE HERE AS TO BE SUPPORTIVE OF THIS EFFORT. WE ARE HERE TO BE SUPPORTIVE OF WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN, AND WE REALIZE THAT WITH THIS NOT HAPPENING FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER 10 YEARS, IT'S SIMILAR TO THE PERSON WHO PLANTS A TREE, KNOWING THAT THAT TREE WILL, WILL PROVIDE FOR A FUTURE GENERATION AND IT MAY, MAY NOT BE A BENEFIT THAT YOU, YOURSELF GET TO INCUR. SO WITH THAT IN MIND, UH, I'M MOSTLY HERE TO APPLAUD AND TO THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. FOLLOWING MS. JOHNSON WILL BE ROB SMITH. YES. HI. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR ALLOWING US TO ATTEND AND SPEAK. I'M HOLLY JOHNSON AND I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE HOPE HOUSE OF SEDONA. IT'S THE ONLY, UM, SHELTER OR PLACE OF THE HOUSES OF HOMELESS IN OUR COMMUN COMMUNITY. UM, CURRENTLY WE HANDLE, UM, HUNDREDS OF CALLS OF WANTING HOUSING AND RESIDENCY. SO WHEN I HEARD THAT YOU WERE GOING TO BUILD A 500 HOUSING UNIT COMPLEX, I WAS QUITE EXCITED AND VERY HAPPY THAT THE CITY'S LOOKING AT USING SOME OF ITS LAND HOUSE, ALL THE PEOPLE THAT THAT WANT TO LIVE IN OUR COMMUNITY. UM, OUR, OUR, UM, HELP HOUSE HOUSES, WOMEN AND CHILDREN, AND WE SUPPORT THEM SO THAT THEY GET, UM, EMPLOYMENT AND WORK SAVE 30% OF THEIR INCOME SO THAT THEY CAN COME TO HOUSING WHEN THEY LEAVE OUR PLACE. THEY WANT TO LIVE IN SEDONA, THEY HAVE JOBS IN SEDONA. UM, AND SO WE ARE VERY HAPPY THAT THEY ARE SET, THEY ARE, UM, SUCCESSFULLY TRANSITIONING INTO WORKING CITIZEN OF OUR COMMUNITY. UM, WE HAVE TO ADMIT, AND I'M GLAD THAT YOU'RE SEEING IT, THAT SEDONA HAS A [01:30:01] HOUSING CRISIS AND WE NEED TO FACE THE FACT THAT, UM, HOUSING IS VERY TIGHT HERE AND AFFORD, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN, IN THIS, UM, NEW COMPLEX. AND WE NEED TO, UM, REALIZE THAT HOUSING FOR WORKING PEOPLE CAN'T RELY ON INDIVIDUAL BUILDERS. THAT THE CITY HERE NEEDS TO TAKE HOLD, WHICH THEY ARE DOING NOW TO BE SEEING THAT THESE HOUSING UNITS ARE AVAILABLE TO OUR COMMUNITY. SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT AND TO SUPPORT WHAT YOU'RE DOING HERE. THANK YOU. MR. SMITH WILL BE FOLLOWED BY TRA TRACY BRODEN. I THINK IT IS. . MY NAME IS ROB SMITH. UH, I'M HERE TO URGE THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER EXPANDING THE SPACE FOR CIVIC PROPERTY. UH, CURRENTLY THE CITY PAID $20 MILLION FOR THE SITE AND ONLY RETAINS 4.2 ACRES FOR ITS OWN USE. 4.2 ACRES. IF YOU PUT REC CENTER AND CALL IT A PARK, I THINK YOU SHOULD JOKING YOURSELF. UH, IF YOU ADD THE NORTHEAST CORNER, UH, BLOCK NINE, YOU UH, GET TO 7.9 ACRES AND THAT REPRESENTS ABOUT 30% OF THE BILLABLE LAND ON THE SITE. AS WE LEARN, 27 IS ALL WE HAVE. THERE'S A DEFINITE SHORTAGE OF LAND IN THE CITY. WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE. WHEN THE CITY'S DONE SPENDING, I GUESS 75 TO A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS DEALING WITH TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENTS, FOREST ROAD, TWO ROUNDABOUTS, CONNECTOR ROAD, PEDESTRIAN UNDERPASS, PARKING GARAGE, AND THE SHUTTLE. SOONER OR LATER OTHER ITEMS ARE GONNA BE ON THE RADAR STREET OF THE CITY AND THEY'LL BE ABLE TO TAKE OUR MOTEL, HOTEL TAX AND DEAL WITH THINGS FOR THE CITY RESIDENTS, SUCH AS A COMMUNITY CENTER WITHOUT FEES, A REC CENTER, A MUSEUM, AND WHO KNOWS WHAT ELSE WILL NEED WHEN WE'RE DONE WITH ALL THOSE TRANSPORTATION NEEDS. AND ALL OF THIS IS JUST AN IDEA, YOU SHOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH DEVELOPER PROPOSALS AND IT'S GOTTA MAKE MONEY FOR THE DEVELOPERS. SO I URGE YOU TO THINK ABOUT LEAVING THE CITY MORE OPTIONS WITH THIS GREAT PIECE OF PROPERTY. IT WOULD PUT THE PI COLLEGE AND ALL THE CITY PROPERTY TOGETHER AND THE CITY DESERVES MORE THAN 4.2 ACRES OUT OF THE $20 MILLION AT EIGHT. THANK YOU. YEAH. AND PATRICK SCHWEISS WILL FOLLOW. OKAY. MY NAME'S TRACY RANDALL. UM, I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE LOCAL BIKE CLUB VALLEY COALITION, A SEDONA RESIDENT, UM, IS FREE POINT USER OF THE WESTERN I, UM, AND VERY FAMILIAR WITH THIS PROPERTY NOW BECAUSE EACH OF THE STEPS THIS GENTLEMAN WENT THROUGH, I'VE BEEN IN THESE MEETINGS. SO , IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, ASK ME. . UM, I SENT A LETTER IN AND THEN JUST THROUGH LISTENING KIND OF ADJUSTED, I USUALLY AM VERY PREPARED AT WHAT I'M GONNA SAY, BUT YOU GUYS ADJUSTED IT A BIT. UM, I WOULD SAY I'M GOING OVER WHAT HE COVERED AND, AND WHAT PEOPLE HAVE ADJUSTED. THANK YOU. UM, HARRY AND, UH, STEVE. THEY BOTH MET WITH THE FOREST SERVICE AND WE MADE A CHANGE THERE, WHICH WE HAD REQUESTED. SO EXCITED ABOUT THAT. UM, THE ONES THAT ARE STILL, LIKE THE PLANNING GROUP AND WHOEVER'S PLANNING US TO CONSIDER IS THE UPPER, UM, NORTHWEST CORNER THERE. UM, UNFORTUNATELY NONE OF THE PLANS EVER HAVE THE CORRECT OR SO THE TRAILS ON THEM, BUT THE UPPER, UM, NORTHWEST CORNER IS VERY CLOSE TO OUTER LIMITS AND BOTTOM OUT. AND CALLIE BROUGHT UP AN INTERESTING POINT WITH ALL THE PARKING, IT'S QUITE A BIT OF DRAINAGE. AND SO I JUST HAVE CONCERNS OVER WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN THERE FROM A DENSITY STANDPOINT, HOW CLOSE IT'S TO THE TRAILS, THE IMPACT TO THE TRAILS, AND WOULD ADVOCATE TO REALLY ANALYZE HOW MUCH DENSITY WE NEED IN THAT UPPER NORTHWEST CORNER. UM, YOU KNOW, I MEASURED THIS ON SOMETHING CALLED CAL TOPA. IT'S 35 FEET. IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE THEY'VE EXPANDED IT SOME SINCE I'VE SEEN THE LAST PLAN, BUT THAT'S 100 PIECES THAT I HAVE. UM, THE SECOND THESE GUYS KNOW, AND I UNDERSTAND LISTENING TO THIS, THIS IS VERY COMPLEX, BUT I THINK IT'S GONNA BE SUPER IMPORTANT TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR CARS. THAT THERE'S A LOT OF OUTPUT TO THE SHARED USE PATHS, HOW WE GET AROUND. UM, THIS IS GONNA BE A VERY BUSY TRAIL HEAD. I DON'T THINK ONE SIDE'S GONNA CUT IT. WE'RE GONNA BE ON BOTH SIDES. IF YOU GO TO THIS PARKING LOT, IT'S PACKED. AND SO NOW WE HAVE ALL THESE PEOPLE, PLUS ALL THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING THERE, AND PROBABLY MORE PEOPLE BECAUSE THIS IS GONNA BE AN EXCITING PLACE TO GO. SO JUST MAKE SURE WE LEAVING [01:35:01] UP SPACE AND THOUGHT FOR SHARED USE PATHS OF HOW BIKERS AND HIKERS GET AROUND THIS PROPERTY. UM, LET'S SEE. AND THE LAST IS DENSITY. TO ME, IT'S INTERESTING, I UNDERSTAND WE HAVE A HUGE SHORTAGE AND SO I'M EMPATHETIC FOR THAT. I'M ACTUALLY FOR HOUSING. I LIVED IN, UM, AFFORDABLE HOUSING WHEN I FIRST STARTED, SO I HAVE NO ISSUES WITH IT, BUT THE DENSITY OF THIS IS HIGH. THE CITY WAS COMPLIANT, COMPAR IT TO OPINION NAVAJO, BUT IT'S A LITTLE BIT, A FAIR COMPARISON IS ONLY A SMALL PORTION OF THIS IS DEVELOPABLE. SO IT'S 500 UNITS OVER, WHAT IS THIS, 27 ACRES FOR THE DEVELOPABLE AND JUST DO THE MASS THAT IS MUCH HIGHER THAN ANYTHING ELSE. SO ANYWAY, THEY, THEY PLAY TOGETHER TO ME. THAT'S IT. THANK YOU. HELLO, AND THANK YOU VERY, VERY MUCH, UH, FOR HEARING ME TODAY. I'M PAT SCHWEISS AND I LIVE IN SEDONA. AND, UM, I'M THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF SEDONA INTERNATIONAL FILM FESTIVAL AND OUR THEATERS, THE MARY DEEP FISHER THEATER IN THE ALICEVILLE THEATER. AND, UM, THANK YOU FOR THE WELL THOUGHT OUT PROCESS. THIS LOOKS LIKE AN INCREDIBLE, INCREDIBLE PLAN AND A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND FOR LISTENING TO PUBLIC INPUT. SO I'M HERE TODAY TO ENCOURAGE YOU TO PICK ONE OF THOSE PLANS, UM, THAT WILL HELP AND BENEFIT NOT ONLY THE COMMUNITY, US THE FUTURE OF SEDONA AND CULTURE HERE IN SEDONA. SO WE'LL GIVE YOU A VERY QUICK UNDER MY THREE MINUTES. MY TEAM IS HERE. SOME OF OUR BOARD MEMBERS, SOME OF OUR STAFF MEMBERS ARE HERE. I I COME REPRESENTING THE ENTIRE FILM FESTIVAL ORGANIZATION. AND, UM, WE, AS MANY OF YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THE MARY DE FISHER THEATER AND THE ALICE GILL SHELDON THEATER ONE'S 13 YEARS OLD, MARY FISHER. UH, ALICE GILL IS THREE YEARS OLD AND OUR ORGANIZATION IS GONNA BE 32 YEARS OLD NEXT FEBRUARY. SO WE'VE GOT A LITTLE BIT OF STAYING POWER, WHICH I'D LIKE TO THINK. AND, UM, WE DID A $2.7 MILLION RENOVATION IN A BUILDING WE DON'T OWN, WHICH MAY NOT HAVE BEEN THE SMARTEST, UH, REAL ESTATE MOVE IN THE PAST. AND, UH, SO WE HAVE FIRST ROUND OF REFUSAL ON OUR BUILDING. UH, WE WERE GONNA LOOK AT BUYING OUR BUILDING AND KEEPING OUR THEATERS THERE. OUR LANDLORD WANTS DOUBLE WHAT THE APPRAISED VALUE IS, UH, OF 4.6. SHE'S ASKING $9 MILLION DOLLARS FOR THE BUILDING. SO WE, FOR THAT MONEY, WE THOUGHT WE CAN JUST BUILD OUR OWN DREAM THEATER SOMEWHERE AND ADD A THIRD THEATER THAT'S A, A PERFORMING VENUE OF ABOUT 250, 300 SEATS TO FILL A NEED THAT'S NOT HERE IN SEDONA CURRENTLY. BECAUSE THE S PERFORMING ARTS IS SO BIG AND A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN'T FILL THAT. SO I CALLED UP SOME PEOPLE WHO I KNEW HAD LAND ON 89 A AND THEN CALLED THE MAYOR SCOTT JABO AND SAID, WE'RE LOOKING FOR A SPACE. WHERE COULD WE BUILD THIS? AND I EXPLAINED OUR SITUATION. HE SAID, COME TO THE CULTURAL PARK. YOU COULD BE OUR ANCHOR TENANT, OUR ANCHOR CULTURAL PLACE AT THE CULTURAL PARK. AND HE CALLED THE MEETING WITH MYSELF, WITH ANNETTE, THE CITY MANAGER AND VICE MAYOR HOLLY PLU. UM, THEY WERE ALL VERY, VERY ENTHUSIASTICALLY SUPPORTING OUR CONCEPT OF BRINGING THE THEATER OVER THERE, BRINGING THE MARY FISHER THEATER OVER THERE, REBUILDING IT AS THE SAME SIZE ELLIS GILL AS THE SAME SIZE, AND ADDING A 250 SEAT PERFORMING ARTS VENUE THERE, CALLING THIS WHOLE THING THE SEDONA, UM, CINEMA ARTS CENTER AND THEREBY, SO CHAMBER MUSIC SYMPHONY FOR THOSE CONCERTS THAT DON'T GET 750 PEOPLE, BUT 250 OR 300 PEOPLE MAKE A FULL VENUE. WE COULD PROVIDE THAT FOR THE CITY. SO WE'RE ASKING YOU TO TAKE THAT PINK SPACE RIGHT ALONG 89 A THOSE TWO PARCELS WOULD BE PERFECT FOR US AND, UH, PLAN TO DO IT COMMERCIAL SO THAT WE COULD PUT A THEATER COMPLEX THERE. KEEP EVERYTHING FOR THE FILM FESTIVAL OUT IN WEST SEDONA. AND, UH, FOR US, THAT WOULD BE A HUGE STEP TO SECURING OUR FUTURE. WE WOULD COVER THE COST AND THE FUNDING AND BUILDING IT. AND FOR US, IT WOULD BE LIKE COMING HOME AGAIN. BECAUSE MANY OF YOU MAY, MAY OR MAY NOT REALIZE WE WERE A PRODUCT OF THE SONSONA CULTURAL PARK. WE WERE PART OF THEM WHEN THE AMPHITHEATER WAS THERE. AND THIS WOULD VERY MUCH BE LIKE COMING HOME. WE WOULD MAKE YOU VERY PROUD OF WHAT THEY WOULD SEE COMING INTO WEST SEDONA FOR A CULTURAL CENTER AND CONTRIBUTE TO OUR QUALITY OF LIFE. SO THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERING THIS. APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. DON'T YOU ALWAYS WANNA CLAP AFTER HE SPEAKS . I ALWAYS WANNA CLAP AFTER YOU SPEAK . UH, NEXT IS, UH, LINDA MARTINEZ, FOLLOWED BY MARK JACOBSON . YOU CAN'T FOLLOW THAT. NO. LINDA MARTINEZ, RESIDENT OF SEDONA. UM, THANK YOU FOR THE THOUGHTFUL DISCUSSION TODAY. UH, I JUST WANNA REMIND YOU THAT WE CANNOT MAKE REAL INROADS ON HOUSING OUR RESIDENTS, OUR WORKERS, OUR FAMILIES, OUR SENIORS, IF WE LOOK AT IT WITH OLD EYES. SO KEEP YOUR MINDS OPEN, PLEASE DON'T BE AFRAID OF A FOUR STORY BUILDING. IT GIVES US, IF WE HAVE MORE DENSITY, WE HAVE MORE OPEN SPACE. UM, I'M NOT, UM, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT DEVELOPERS WHEN THEY COME IN. THEY USED TO BE A BAD WORD IN SEDONA. THEY'RE NOT. WE'RE TRYING TO FIND [01:40:01] 'EM BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH WE MIGHT HAVE 180 UNITS IN THE PIPELINE, IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE GOING TO BE BUILT. WE'VE HAD SO MANY UNITS, THEY HAD ALL THE TS CROSSED THAT THE I DOTTED AND THEY COULDN'T MAKE IT WORK, AND THEY PULLED OUT. YOU ALL KNOW THAT. SO LET'S BE AWARE THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT OUR DEVELOPMENT CODES. WE HAVE TO LOOK AT PARKING, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT HEIGHTS, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT DENSITY. LET'S LOOK AT SHARING THINGS. LET'S HAVE SHARED SPACES. LET'S HAVE SHARED TRANSPORTATION, SHARED PARKING, SHARED, UH, WORKSPACES. LET'S MAKE IT WALKABLE. LET'S REALLY BE BOLD IN THIS PROJECT IF HIS NUMBERS WERE A LITTLE BIT HIGH. THANK YOU FOR THAT BECAUSE EVERY UNIT COUNTS. I MEAN, I, I UNDERSTAND YOU WANT PEOPLE TO BE, YOU KNOW, CONSISTENT, BUT WE NEED THE HOUSING. AND YES, THIS IS A REGIONAL SOLUTION AND OTHER COMMUNITIES ARE DOING THEIR BEST TO, TO HOUSE THEIR OWN WORKERS. SO THIS IS NOT, WE CANNOT RELY ON 'EM ANYMORE. AND, UH, JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA, AFFORDABLE, UH, FOR AFFORDABLE, IT'S 30 TO 60%. IF A MI WORKFORCE IS 80 TO 120% OF A MI AFFORDABLE MEANS THEY'RE GONNA NEED THOSE LIVE TECH DOLLARS THAT HAS A LIMITED SHELF LIFE OF ABOUT 30 YEARS. AND THEN IT COMES OUT OF THAT. SO WE'RE GOING TO NEED MARKET RATE UNITS ALSO TO HELP FUND THIS. SO IF THEY SEE ANY ONE THING, THEY'RE GONNA SAY, WELL, THAT'S TOO MANY MARKET RATE UNITS. DEVELOPERS NEED THEM. THEY'VE GOTTA MAKE THE MONEY OFF OF THAT TO FUND THE WORKFORCE PRICED ONE. THEY PROBABLY CAN'T BUILD AFFORDABLE UNLESS THEY GET THAT FEDERAL SUBSIDIZED SUBSIDIES. UM, LAST, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN WITH THOSE MONIES COMING IN FOR LITECH PROJECTS BECAUSE OF THE MONEY BEING AVAILABLE. WE KNOW THE TARIFFS ARE GONNA MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE FOR OUR CON OUR CONSTRUCTION WORKERS AND THE COST OF CONSTRUCTION. WE'RE ALREADY ONE OF THE HIGHEST PLACES IN THE NATION TO BUILD. IT'S JUST GOING TO GET WORSE. SO PLEASE BE BOLD, BE OPEN, AND LET'S LOOK AT HOUSING FOR OUR SENIORS AND OUR FAMILIES AND OUR YOUNG PEOPLE. THE TIME IS NOW. THANK YOU. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME'S MARK JACOBSON, A LOCAL RESIDENT. I'VE LIVED IN SEDONA FOR 33 YEARS, AND, UH, I'VE, UH, ATTENDED THE FIRST TWO, UM, PUBLIC MEETINGS. I'M HERE TODAY TO TALK TO YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT AND QUITE A FEW PEOPLE ABOUT THIS PROJECT. AND, UM, SO, UM, 33 YEARS. I'M ALSO A PROPERTY OWNER IN SEDONA, AND I HAVE A BUSINESS IN SEDONA IN MY BUSINESS. UM, 95% OF MY CLIENTS ARE SEDONA BUSINESSES. AND, UM, AS, AS WAS MENTIONED EARLIER, THERE'S A HOUSE, HOUSE HOW HOUSING SHORTAGE. AND THERE'S BEEN STUDIES AND, YOU KNOW, WE ESTIMATE 2000, UH, YOU KNOW, WITH THE, WITH THE SHORT TERM RENTALS. AND, UM, YOU ALSO CONSIDER IF ANY OF THIS IS GONNA TAKE FIVE YEARS TO GO ONLINE, YOU MIGHT AS WELL ADD, YOU KNOW, 500 MORE TO THAT NUMBER. UM, BUT AS A BUSINESS OWNER AND, YOU KNOW, UM, REALIZING THAT MY CLIENTS ARE BUSINESS OWNERS TOO, THAT THE LACK OF HELP IS THE NUMBER ONE PROBLEM OF BUSINESSES, THAT'S, I I FULLY SUPPORT THE PROJECT. THANKS. THANK YOU. SO WE'VE HEARD FROM EVERYONE THAT WISHED TO SPEAK, I THINK WE'LL TAKE A, UM, 10, 10 MINUTE BREAK AND, UM, COME BACK FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION. CAN I JUST SAY ONE THING? UM, CAN YES, JUST IN CASE ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE DOESN'T STAY MM-HMM . YOUR WELCOME TO STAY AND WE'D ENCOURAGE YOU TO STAY, WE'D LOVE FOR YOU TO STAY, BUT IF YOU HAVE TO LEAVE, WE UNDERSTAND. UM, ANY FUTURE DOCUMENTS WILL BE POSTED ON PLANNED SEDONA.COM. THERE'S FORMS YOU CAN FILL OUT THERE TO BE ADDED TO MAILING LISTS TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE NOTIFIED OF FUTURE, UM, HEARINGS AND FUTURE, UM, WHEN THINGS GET POSTED AND ALL OF THAT. SO PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE SIGNED UP ON THAT LIST.COM OR.GOV PLAN SEDONA.COM. THERE IS A LINK TO IT@SEDONAAZ.GOV AS WELL. . ANYWAY, JUST CAN'T READ MY OWN WRITING. HI EVERYBODY, IF YOU WANNA TAKE YOUR SEAT, WE WILL RESUME. AND, UM, THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOU THAT CONTINUE TO STAY. WE'LL BRING BACK CON UH, THE CONVERSATION TO THE [01:45:01] COMMISSION. AND, UM, I KNOW THAT THE CITY IS LOOKING, THE STAFF IS LOOKING FOR DIRECTION ON DENSITY ON HOUSING TYPES, UM, ON PERHAPS NUMBER OF UNITS. UM, THE LAYOUT WE'VE HEARD, UM, FROM ONE IN INDIVIDUAL THAT HAS, UM, INTEREST IN THE MIXED USE COMMERCIAL AREA THAT'S, THAT'S NEW TONIGHT THAT WE'LL, WE WANT TO, UM, DISCUSS PROBABLY AS WELL. SO, UM, I'M JUST GONNA OPEN IT UP TO ANYONE THAT WANTS TO TAKE A PIECE OF, OF THE PROPOSAL IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT'S MISSING THAT YOU THINK NEEDS TO BE INCLUDED. UM, IF THERE'S, UM, ANY, UH, IF YOU HAVE ANY PUSHBACK ABOUT THE LAND USES, UM, ALL OF THAT'S FAIR GAME. SO I'LL JUST OPEN IT UP. I'LL START ON THIS END. YEAH, I, KELLY, I HAVE A, I HAVE A HIGH, I HAVE ANOTHER 10,000 FOOT QUESTION. I THINK PROBABLY STEVE, I APPRECIATE THE FOCUS ON ATTRACTING DEVELOPERS BECAUSE THIS IS AN INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE PLACE TO DEVELOP. SO MY QUESTION IS, WHEN WE PUT THAT RFP OUT FOR SUNSET LOFTS, HOW MANY ANSWERS DID WE GET? LIKE HOW MANY SUBMISSIONS DID WE GET FOR THAT? RFP? OH, YOU GOT ME. UM, ISH ONE OR, UH, NO, NO. UH, THERE WERE MULTIPLES. UM, AND, UH, GENIE PROBABLY BECAUSE I'M GETTING 24 11 AND SUNSET LOFTS KIND MIXED. OKAY. NEITHER, NEITHER. SO WE HAD UP TO SEVEN ON THE ONE. OKAY. AND, UH, FOUR TO FIVE ON THE OTHER. OKAY, COOL. BECAUSE THOSE AREN'T, THOSE ARE SMALLER PROJECTS. SO FOR THE CONTEXT OF ATTRACTING DEVELOPERS, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE PROJECTS DIDN'T GET ONE. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO, UH, DIVING INTO THE ACTUAL PLAN, UM, I'M NOT GONNA HARP ON PARKING BECAUSE I THINK, YOU KNOW, HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT. UH, I THINK THAT THE HIGHER DENSITY, HIGHER UNITS IS A HUGE BENEFIT IN THIS CURRENT OPTION. ONE, BECAUSE I THINK I'VE SAT ON THIS COMMISSION LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT OFTEN PROJECTS LIKE THESE LOSE UNITS DUE TO COST, DUE TO MASSING, DUE TO ALL SORTS OF REASONS. SO GIVING SOME OPTION ON THE UPPER END I THINK IS SMART. AND I AGREE WITH LINDA IN THAT MORE DENSITY EQUALS MORE OPEN SPACE. AND ALL, ALMOST ALL OF THE COMMENTS THAT I READ AND REALLY FELT LIKE THE THEME I FOUND IN THESE, IN THIS PROCESS IS OPEN SPACE IS THE PRIORITY. OKAY? OPEN, OPEN SPACE IS THE PRIORITY, AND IN FIVE YEARS, HYPOTHETICALLY WE HAVE A 2,500, UM, NOT ENOUGH UNITS. THEN THE WAY WE TAKE A NOT VERY BIG BITE OUT OF THAT IS DENSITY. AND I KNOW THAT'S A SCARY AND NOT COMMONLY USED TERM IN OUR TOWN HISTORICALLY. UM, I THINK LINDA PROBABLY IS SAYING THIS, SAID THIS BETTER THAN I DID, BUT, UM, I THINK THIS PROJECT LOOKS REALLY GOOD. UM, I THINK THE FILM FESTIVAL BEING AN ANCHOR TENANT WOULD BE REALLY COOL IF THAT ENDED UP BEING THE CASE. I'D BE IN SUPPORT OF ADDITIONAL COMMERCIAL, JUST SO IT WASN'T A ONE FACETED COMMERCIAL PROPERTY PROPERTY. UM, AND WHETHER THAT LOOKS LIKE YOU CONVERT SOME BOTTOM FLOORS OF HOUSING INTO MIXED USE WORK LIVE, I, I PERSONALLY WOULD LOVE, UM, THAT KIND OF ENCOURAGEMENT OF WALKABILITY. IT'S NOT JUST THAT PEOPLE ARE WALKING TO THE FRONT FOR COMMERCIAL. MAYBE THERE'S A COFFEE SHOP IN THE BACK IN THE APARTMENT COMPLEX AND THAT CAUSES THAT COMMUNITY, THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE TO INTERACT WITH OTHER SPACES ON THE PROPERTY IN A DIFFERENT WAY. SO I THINK THAT WAS THE ONLY THING THAT I FOUND MAYBE MISSING WAS THE POTENTIAL FOR BOTTOM FLOOR, TRUE MIXED USE, NOT COMMERCIAL. SO BOTTOM FLOOR COMMERCIAL, HIGHER FLOORS, RESIDENTIAL. UM, I ALSO, I I'M TRYING TO LOOK AT THIS PLAN WITH A BIG VIEW, RIGHT? LIKE, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT DEVELOPERS WILL COME TO US IN WHATEVER TIME. WE DON'T KNOW, UM, WHAT THE DESIRABLE HOUSING TO BOTH BUILD AND LIVE WILL BE WHEN IT'S TIME. BUT FROM A A, A STEP BACK, I THINK THIS REALLY HITS A LOT OF NEEDS. UM, AND I HOPE THAT WE CAN BE REALLY GREAT PARTNERS TO THE FOREST SERVICE, UM, GREAT PARTNERS TO PRESERVING THE LANDS IN THE WAY WE CAN, AND, UM, REALLY BEING WARY OF AS MINIMAL COVERAGE AS POSSIBLE WITH MAXIMUM UNITS JUST FOR CONSERVATION, [01:50:01] OPEN SPACE RUNOFF, ALL OF THOSE THINGS. AND WHAT I BELIEVE IS, I'M NOT A PLANNER, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS WHERE WE'RE HEADED FOR BEST PRACTICES, REALLY HOPING THAT THE BEST, IF WE USE BEST PRACTICES TODAY IN FIVE YEARS, IT WON'T BE OUTDATED. SO THANK YOU FOR ALL THIS WORK. I THINK I APPRECIATE YOU BEING INVOLVED WITH THE COMMUNITY AND I THINK THIS IS A REALLY GOOD START TO A PLAN. THANK YOU. WELL, ACTUALLY I WAS AGAINST IT BEFORE. I THINK I'M BECOMING MORE FOR IT. SO IT'S, UH, AND TONIGHT HAS BEEN VERY HELPFUL, QUITE FRANKLY. UM, I'VE LIVED IN DENSE COMMUNITIES BEFORE AND SOME OF THEM BEEN PROBLEMATIC AND SOME HAVE NOT. SO, UH, THE LAST THING I EVER THOUGHT OF WHEN WE MOVED TO SEDONA IS THAT HAVING DENSE HOUSING UNITS LIKE THIS AND ALSO, UH, REALIZED THAT WE, UH, SOMEONE SAID WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT WITH NEW EYES. AND I ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT, UH, THEY'RE ONTO SOMETHING THERE. UH, WE DO NEED TO, UM, MAKE SURE THAT WE DO THAT WE DO THE RIGHT THING. MM-HMM . OKAY. SO, UM, SO I'M STILL IN A LEARNING PROCESS OF THAT. I'M NOT GONNA SAY WE SHOULD DO THIS OR THAT, ALTHOUGH THERE IS ONE LITTLE CORNER DOWN HERE THAT I'M VERY INTRIGUED THAT, UH, THAT WE SHOULD MOVE FORWARD IN, IN AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE ON THAT. UM, OTHER THAN THAT, AND THE REAL CONCERN ABOUT TRAFFIC AND WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN AT 89 A WHAT CORNER ARE YOU TALKING? WHAT, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? I'M TALKING ABOUT, UH, A FILM FESTIVAL. OH, OKAY. . ALRIGHT. BUT ONLY IF THEY'LL BRING BLUEGRASS IN . SOME BLUEGRASS IN THERE. RIGHT. OKAY. UM, SO I, I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF OTHER COMMENTS TONIGHT. UH, IT'S BEEN MORE OF A LEARNING EXPERIENCE FOR ME. UM, UH, AND I BELIEVE THAT AS WE, UM, AS WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THESE THINGS THAT WE ARE GONNA HAVE TO CONSIDER PERHAPS AGGRESSIVELY MOVING IN SOME DIRECTIONS, THAT WOULDN'T BE THE, THE NORMAL THING THAT WE WOULD DO. UM, UH, THIS IS A VERY SPECIAL PIECE OF PROPERTY. WE NEED TO, WE NEED TO HONOR IT. UH, BUT WE ALSO NEED TO HONOR OUR COMMUNITY AND MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE ABLE TO WORK IN THE STORES THAT WE, AND IN THE RESTAURANTS THE THING THAT WE ENJOY GOING TO AS PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE. MM-HMM . SO, UM, SO IT'S A REAL MIXED BAG, BUT I THINK THERE'S BEEN SOME GREAT WORK, A GREAT START. OKAY. I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS FIRST, AND THEN, THEN I'LL SHARE MY CONCLUSIONS. I GUESS, UM, IN READING THE CFA, THERE ARE SOME REQUIREMENTS USING WESTERN GATEWAY GIVES YOU AN, UH, INKLING. UH, ONE OF THEM IS THAT THIS REALLY BE A GATEWAY AND THAT THERE BE, THERE'S REPETITIVE, THERE'S REPETITIVE REFERENCES TO, UH, TOURIST CENTERS, SIGNAGE, UH, INFORMATION, ALL KINDS OF THINGS LIKE THAT. AND I DON'T REALLY SEE, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME TALK ABOUT THE TRAILHEAD AND WE DID HAVE A LITTLE TALK THIS MORNING ABOUT THAT KIND OF INFORMATION, BUT, UM, I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT REALLY INCORPORATED AS THIS MOVES ALONG. UM, AND MAYBE ALONG AS THE APPROPRIATE PLACE FOR IT. BUT I JUST, I DON'T REALLY SEE THAT YET, UM, OF HOW THIS BECOMES A GATEWAY. THAT'S ONE THING. UM, ANOTHER IS, UH, THE, THE WHOLE CFA IS NOT SIMPLY THE CULTURAL PARK, BUT IT'S, AS YOU REFERENCED, IT'S ALSO THE MEDICAL CENTER. IT'S ALSO ACROSS THE WAY WITH THE HIGH SCHOOL AREA, SO FORTH. UM, AND, AND YOU CALL THEM CHARACTER AREAS IN THE, UM, CFA. SO THE MEDICAL CENTER IS ONE OF THE THREE CHARACTER AREAS. AND THE CFA ITSELF CALLS OUT FOR CERTAIN DEVELOPMENT IN THAT CHARACTER AREA, SUCH AS AGING IN PLACE, SENIOR LIVING. MM-HMM . NOT THAT WE CAN REQUIRE THAT OF NAH THE OWNER, BUT WHAT WE HAVE BEFORE US IS A PLAN FOR CITY OWNED PORTION OF THE CFAA ONLY, AND WILL THERE BE FURTHER DISCUSSION AND COORDINATION, HOPEFULLY WITH, UM, SOME OF THE OTHER MAJOR TENANTS OF THE CFAS, SUCH AS YAVAPAI COLLEGE, SUCH AS NAH, TO ENCOURAGE MORE SYNERGY IF THAT COULD OCCUR. AND I THINK SOME OF IT IS OCCURRING. UM, [01:55:02] I THINK THE PHASING OF WHEN SOME OF THESE THINGS ARE BUILT OUT MIGHT NEED TO BE ADJUSTED SO THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, IF NAH WANTED TO ACTUALLY BUILD SOME SENIOR HOUSING ON THEIR LAND, UM, THOSE SENIOR BLOCK NINE APARTMENTS, WHICH WE'VE LOOSELY TALKED ABOUT AS POSSIBLY BEING SENIOR HOUSING, UM, COULD BE USED FOR SOMETHING ELSE. MAYBE TO ROB'S POINT ABOUT, UM, MORE CITY AMENITIES, YOU KNOW, FOR THE OVERALL POPULATION, FOR THE COMMUNITY. SO, I'M, I, THERE'S JUST A LOT OF MOVING PARTS. I UNDERSTAND THAT I'M, I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE HOW YOU'VE FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO WHEN WITH THAT MANY MOVING PARTS. BUT I JUST URGE US TO MAYBE BE AS GENERIC AS POSSIBLE. YOU'RE ALREADY GONNA BE GENERIC AS POSSIBLE, BUT, UM, WITH SOME OF THOSE AREAS THAT POTENTIALLY COULD BE TAKEN ON BY OTHER OWNERS, IF THAT MAKES ANY SENSE AT ALL. UM, FOR EXAMPLE, THE COMMUNITY BENEFIT AREA THAT BLOCK FOUR IS THAT FOUR EIGHT, SORRY. UM, AND 4.2 ACRES. THERE'S ONLY SO MANY THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO THERE, AND I WOULD HATE TO SEE IT ALL TAKEN UP. I PERSONALLY WOULD HATE TO SEE IT ALL TAKEN UP BY A REC CENTER WHEN MAYBE A REC CENTER COULD BE SOMEWHERE ELSE. AND SO ANOTHER ONE OF MY QUESTIONS IS, IS THERE A PHASING TO THIS? HOW DO WE, THE CITY IS GONNA PROVIDE INFRASTRUCTURE, AND IF YOU COULD KIND OF LAY OUT WHAT PART THE CITY ITSELF IS GONNA TAKE ON, UM, WHAT ORDER WOULD THINGS BE DONE IN? WOULD THEY BE, UM, CITY INFRASTRUCTURE FIRST, THEN RETAIL, THEN HOUSING, THEN COMMUNITY BENEFIT AREAS? WOULD IT BE DONE, UH, IN SOME, IS THERE SOME LOGICAL WAY THAT WOULD ROLL OUT? DO WE DO IT IN A PRIORITY ORDER? UH, DO WE DO IT ACCORDING TO BUILD OUT TIME? I MEAN, HOW DO THOSE THINGS WORK JUST FOR JUST GENERAL UNDERSTANDING? SURE. UM, YEAH, ALL GOOD QUESTIONS. UH, SO I THINK, WELL, TYPICALLY ON PHASING, YOU ALWAYS WANNA EXTEND YOUR, UH, INFRASTRUCTURE. SO WHEREVER YOUR INFRASTRUCTURE IS, YOU EXTEND IT, BUILD, EXTEND IT, BUILD. BUT USUALLY IT'S FAIRLY COSTLY. LET'S SAY THAT YOU PICK THE VERY NORTHWEST CORNER AND SAY, THAT'S MY FIRST PROJECT. THAT'S A LONG WAY TO EXTEND INFRASTRUCTURE MM-HMM . AND SO, UH, AND THEN WHO PAYS FOR THAT? MANY TIMES IT'S REALLY, THE DEVELOPER WILL ACTUALLY BE INSTALLING THAT. IT'LL BE DONE TO CITY STANDARDS AND THEN TURNED OVER TO THE CITY. SO THAT'S HOW THOSE TYPICALLY WOULD WORK. UH, AGAIN, JUST MAKING SURE THEY, YOU KNOW, THE UTILITIES ARE THERE, WHICH BASICALLY YOU DO HAVE UTILITIES TO THE SITE, WHICH IS A REALLY BIG PLUS. THAT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST ADVANTAGE OF THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT WE DO HAVE UTILITIES TO IT. SO ONCE THAT HAPPENS, WHAT THEY'LL DO IS A DEVELOPER TYPICALLY LOOKS AT THEIR, UH, THEIR OWN MARKET STUDY AND FINDS OUT EXACTLY WHAT THE MOST, WHAT THE NEED IS. AND THAT COULD BE, UH, WHETHER IT'S THEIR, UM, THEIR, THEIR OWN ASSESSMENT ONLY, OR IT COULD BE WHERE THE CITY REALLY WANTS AFFORDABLE HOUSING, RETAINABLE HOUSING. AND WHAT THAT REALLY STARTS DEALING WITH IS WHAT THE TRUE PRICE OF LAND THAT'S PAID. SO WHEN THE DEVELOPER LOOKS AT THE INFRASTRUCTURE COSTS, THE PRODUCT TYPES THAT THEY'RE GONNA PUT IN, WHAT THEY DO IS THEY RUN THOSE COSTS AND THEY HAVE WHAT THEY CALL RESIDUAL LAND VALUE. BY THE TIME THEY TAKE THEIR PROFIT, ALL THE CONSTRUCTION COSTS, ALL THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT HAS PUT ON THAT TELLS THEM WHAT THE LAND IS WORTH. THAT'S WHERE THE CITY HAS THE BIGGEST OPPORTUNITY TO GET WHAT YOU WANT. SO DEPENDING ON WHETHER YOU WANT, YOU KNOW, 500,000 AN ACRE OR A MILLION AND A HALF DOLLARS AN ACRE, UH, REALLY DETERMINES ON WHAT TYPE OF A PRODUCT MAY HAVE TO GO IN THERE. MEANING THAT IF YOU DISCOUNT THE PROPERTY, THEN YOU MAY GET SOMETHING THAT IS BASICALLY MORE AFFORDABLE. AND YOU MAY ALSO ADVANCE THAT AS A PHASE AGAIN, WHAT THEY'RE, WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT IS THE BOTTOM LINE ON ALL THESE ASSETS, OR BASICALLY THEIR ASSET AND THEIR COST. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT. BUT, YOU KNOW, TYPICALLY THEY WOULD APPROACH THIS ON WHAT THEIR MOST VALUABLE, BASICALLY THE MARKET REALLY TELLS THEM WHAT THE CITY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE BUILT AND THEN LOOK AT THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE COSTS. THAT'S USUALLY THE THREE PIECES. SO HAS THERE ALREADY BEEN A DECISION ON THE PART OF THE CITY, UM, NOT TO BEAR THE COSTS OF THE LAND ITSELF? SO NONE OF THOSE DECISIONS HAVE BEEN MADE YET. IT'D BE PART OF AN IMPLEMENTATION PLAN THAT WOULD FOLLOW THE MASTER PLAN IF [02:00:01] IT GETS ADOPTED. IF I COULD ADD ON TO THAT, UM, YOU WERE VERY CORRECT ABOUT ALL THOSE MOVING PARTS. YES. AND YOU'RE ALSO CORRECT THAT WE ARE IN CONVERSATIONS WITH A LOT OF THOSE LARGER PLAN, UH, PROPERTY OWNERS, KNOWING THAT, UM, UH, THE CFA COVERS EVERYTHING AND, UM, CERTAIN PROPERTY OWNERS MIGHT HAVE THEIR OWN THOUGHTS FOR THE FUTURE, WHICH WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO PARTNER WITH. SO WE ARE, WE DO UNDERSTAND THAT YES, IT IS A LOT OF MOVING PARTS. UM, WE ARE LOOKING AT THAT ALONG WITH THIS. UM, EVEN INTERNALLY, YOU'RE, YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT IT, THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND LIKE JAY SAID, UH, THE DEVELOP, IT MIGHT BE BETTER FOR THE DEVELOPER TO DO INFRASTRUCTURE OR MAYBE INFRASTRUCTURE IN A CERTAIN AREA, BUT WE'RE ALSO TALKING WITH OUR OWN PUBLIC WORKS TO SAY THAT, HEY, THIS MIGHT COME DOWN THE LINE FOR US. SO, UM, WE ARE WORKING, UH, TRYING TO WORK ALL DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THAT AND UNDERSTAND WE DON'T WANT TO GET CAUGHT WITH OUR PANTS DOWN. UM, SO WE DO WANT TO BE LOOKING AT ALL DIFFERENT AREAS IN CASE IT HAPPENS TO GO TO THAT IT, IT'S HARD TO EVEN KNOW WHAT TO SAY WE WANT WHEN THERE ARE SO MANY MOVING PARTS. IT, IT'S TRUE. BUT, UM, AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE NOT TRYING TO BE TOO SPECIFIC RIGHT NOW. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, UM, THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT COMMUNITY BENEFITS. OKAY, MAYBE WE CAN GET A COMMUNITY BENEFIT OUT OF THAT LIST ON ANOTHER PIECE OF PROPERTY. AND WE DON'T KNOW THAT UNTIL A YEAR OR TWO DOWN THE ROAD. MM-HMM . SO YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. THAT'S WHY WE DO HAVE TO KEEP IT AT THESE BLOBS WITH, UM, UH, DIFFERENT OPTIONS FOR THOSE BLOBS. UM, BECAUSE THINGS ARE CHANGING ALL THE TIME. YES. WELL, WE HEARD ABOUT A, A PERFORMING ARTS CENTER TONIGHT THAT, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT TWO DAYS AGO. SO, UM, THAT WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE. YES. AND BY THE WAY, I JUST WANNA SAY, I THINK THAT WOULD BE AN EXCELLENT ANCHOR TENANT ALSO. IF IT COULD, IF IT COULD WORK OUT. UM, WHAT I, OKAY, NOW I'LL JUST GO TO THE THINGS I LIKE AND THINGS I DON'T LIKE , I, I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH DENSITY. I, I UNDERSTAND THE NEED FOR HOUSING. I REALLY DO UNDERSTAND THE NEED. UM, BUT I ALSO WANT THIS TO HAVE THE LOOK AND FEEL OF SEDONA AND NOT LOOK LIKE, UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT ANTHEM OR SOMETHING. I MEAN, SOME, UM, MASTER PLAN COMMUNITY THAT GOT LIFTED OUT OF ANOTHER MM-HMM . PLACE. MM-HMM . SO FOR THAT REASON, I MEAN, WE ALREADY HAVE LIMITS ON THE, ON HEIGHT. THIS CFA DOES ALLOW FOR THAT TO GO BEYOND TWO STORY. IT DOESN'T SPECIFY HOW MUCH, BUT IT, IT, IT DOES ALLOW FOR IT. THE SHELBY OR WHATEVER THAT ONE IS CALLED, THE SHELBY CFA, UM, WAS SPECIFIC 45 FEET. AND THIS ONE DOESN'T HAVE THAT KIND OF SPECIFICITY. SO I, I CAN UNDERSTAND FOUR STORY IN THE BACK, IN THE, IN THE GULLY IN THE BOWL. OKAY. IN THE BOWL. MM-HMM . MY, MY HARDER ONES TO ACCEPT ARE ANYTHING ALONG 89 A OR RIGHT BEHIND 89 A WHERE, UH, IF YOU TAKE THE ALTERNATE PLAN AND YOU PUT MORE COMMERCIAL THERE, AND THEN YOU BUMP UP THE HOUSING BEHIND IT TO HIGHER HEIGHTS SO THAT YOU'RE NOT LOSING HOUSING, I, I WOULD RATHER LOSE HOUSING. 'CAUSE I REALLY FEEL LIKE WE SHOULD TRY TO MAINTAIN THE LOOK AND FEEL AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE FOR THOSE WHO ARE JUST PASSING BY. UM, WELL, FOR THOSE WHO WERE JUST PASSING BY. AND THEN, AND THAT'S PART OF THE GATEWAY DESCRIPTION IS MAINTAINING THE SCENIC VIEW VIEW SHEDS. YEAH. YEAH. AND I, AND I, UH, APPRECIATED THOSE SLICES, BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE THIS BIG AND I STILL CAN'T, AND EVEN IF I'VE WALKED THE SITE, EVEN IF I'VE WALKED THE SITE MULTIPLE TIMES, UH, IT'S STILL GOING TO BE A LITTLE DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE EN MASS, YOU KNOW, WHAT THOSE BLOCKS ARE GONNA LOOK LIKE. UM, SO I, I DO WONDER ABOUT BLOCK NUMBER NINE, IF IT COULD BE PUT TO A HIGHER, OR PART OF IT TO A HIGHER AND BETTER USE AS JUST A COMMUNITY AREA. IF IT TURNS OUT, YOU KNOW, SENIOR HOUSING COULD GO ELSEWHERE OR WHATEVER NIH MIGHT WANT TO DO. UM, I JUST LIKE, I REALLY LIKE THE IDEA OF OPEN SPACE. I REALLY LIKE THE IDEA OF KEEPING IT AS LOW AS POSSIBLE. AND I MEAN, ALL THOSE FOUR STORIES DON'T HAVE TO GO DOWN TO THREE, IN MY OPINION, [02:05:01] KNOCKING OUT 81 UNITS. BUT IF WE COULD KNOCK OUT SOME SELECTIVELY THE TOWN HOMES IN BLOCK TWO, INSTEAD OF THERE BEING FOUR STORY, IF THEY WERE THREE STORY. UM, ANYWAY, THAT'S MY 2 CENTS. GREAT. UM, I JUST WANTED TO START BY CLARIFYING A REALLY SIMPLE, SIMPLE QUESTION. THERE'S A LOT OF FEAR IN THE COMMUNITY ABOUT, AS CALI SAID EARLIER, THE CITY BEING, UM, LANDLORDS. CAN YOU EXPLAIN IN VERY SIMPLE TERMS, LIKE, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHEN PEOPLE START PAYING RENT, WHERE WILL THAT MONEY GO? . YEAH, GO AHEAD, . SO CHAIR COMMISSIONERS, IT WOULD, IT WOULD DEPEND ULTIMATELY ON THE STRUCTURE MM-HMM . UM, AND THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE VETTED, DETERMINED IN THIS PROCESS. UM, THE CITY COULD, COULD SELL OFF, UH, INDIVIDUAL PORTIONS. SO FOR EXAMPLE, TO, UM, THE, YOU KNOW, THE, UH, PATRICK SCHWEISS AND HIS GROUP THAT WAS JUST HERE, UM, UH, THAT COULD BE SOLD OR THERE COULD BE LEASES, LONG TERM LEASES, UM, EITHER. SO IF IT'S, IF IT'S, UH, RENTED, THEN THE, THE, THE PROPERTY DEVELOPER WOULD BE PAYING SOME TYPE OF, UH, RENT TO THE CITY OR LONG TERM LEASE, AND THEN THE INDIVIDUAL UNITS WOULD BE PAYING IT TO THE DEVELOPER MOST LIKELY. SO I APPRECIATE THAT THERE'S, 'CAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF CONFUSION, THERE'S IN THE COMMUNITY ABOUT IT. SO YEAH, I MEAN, THERE IS ALSO OPTION FOR THE CITY TO BUILD OR OWN DIRECTLY UNITS. UM, THAT'S THE, I THINK FROM THE STAFF POINT, THE LESS PALATABLE ROUTE FOR THE CITY DIRECTLY OWNED THE BUILDINGS MM-HMM . AND THEN HAVE TO MANAGE THE RENTS AND BE A DIRECT LANDLORD. I MEAN, BUT IT IS A POSSIBILITY. SO I MOST LIKELY IT'LL BE A LONG-TERM LEASE TO A DEVELOPER WHO WILL THEN COLLECT INDIVIDUAL RENTS AND THE CITY WILL BE COLLECTING ONE LARGE CHECK FROM THE DEVELOPER. GOT IT. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, SO I'M SUPER EXCITED ABOUT THIS PROJECT. I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL OF THE HARD WORK THAT YOU GUYS HAVE PUT INTO THIS. IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT YOU'VE THOUGHT ABOUT IT. A LOT OF THE, I TOOK PAGE OF NOTES AND A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS I HAD YOU ACTUALLY HAD ON YOUR SLIDES. SO, UM, I REALLY APPRECIATE IT WHEN PEOPLE REALLY DO THEIR HOMEWORK AND TAKE PRIDE IN WHAT THEY DO. SO I, YOU KNOW, THANK YOU FOR THAT. UM, I'M SORT OF, YOU KNOW, THEY SAY THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS AND WELL, OUR TOWN NEEDS DIFFERENT RESULTS AT THIS POINT. SO I REALLY LIKED WHAT LINDA SAID ABOUT BEING BOLD. UM, I THINK BEING BOLD AND PROGRESSIVE AND PERHAPS EVEN BEING A LITTLE BIT OUT OF OUR COMFORT ZONE, UM, WOULD ACTUALLY BEHOOVE US AS WE LOOK AT LONG-TERM VISIONS. UM, I'M A PARENT, SINGLE PARENT IN THIS TOWN. WE NEED A REC CENTER. BAD FAMILIES REALLY NEED A PLACE TO GO. YOU CAN ONLY GO TO SUNSET AND POSSE GROUNDS SO MUCH BEFORE, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST, YOU CAN ONLY KICK THE SOCCER BALL SO MUCH. AND SO OUR KIDS ARE YOUTH. EVEN MY CHILD'S SCHOOL, THEY CAN'T PLAY BASKETBALL ON THEIR CAMPUS. THEY DON'T HAVE THE FACILITIES FOR THAT. SO OUR KIDS AND OUR FAMILIES AND OUR YOUNGER GENERATIONS REALLY, REALLY NEED THE SUPPORT. UM, SO I'M VERY, I'M VERY PRO REC CENTER. I THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. I'M SORT OF HOPING ONE DEVELOPER COMES IN AND DOES THE WHOLE THING SO THAT WE HAVE SOME SYNERGY BETWEEN WHAT'S BEING DEVELOPED. I'D LOVE TO SEE LIKE A LEAD FOR NEIGHBORHOODS KIND OF PROJECT DONE FOR OUR COMMUNITY. I THINK THAT WOULD FABULOUS. BE FABULOUS. I MEAN, THIS IS SORT OF A SHOWCASE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE CITY. IT'S GONNA BE ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS PEOPLE SEE WHEN THEY DRIVE IN, IF THEY COME FROM 89 A. SO I THINK WE NEED TO LIKE, YOU KNOW, WALK THE WALK , DO THE, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT IS IT? TALK THE, WHATEVER THAT EXPRESSION IS. SORRY, I'M DEALING WITH A MIGRAINE AT THE SAME TIME, SO I'M KIND OF LIKE STRUGGLING HERE. BUT, UM, SO I THINK PRIORITIZING WALKABILITY, SUSTAINABILITY, THE LENS I LOOK AT IS ALWAYS THROUGH SUSTAINABILITY. SO I APPRECIATE THE REDUCING PARKING AND YOU KNOW, I GOT DOWN IN THE NITTY GRITTY DETAILS ABOUT DESIGNATED BIKE PATHS. AND I'D LOVE TO SEE GREEN STREETS WITH DESIGNATED GREEN BIKE LANES AND, YOU KNOW, BIOSWALES THAT RUN DOWN THE MIDDLE TO DIVIDE THE OPPOSITE WAYS OF TRAFFIC THAT CAPTURE STORM WATER. AND IT'S AN EDUCATION MOMENT. SO I'M REALLY BIG THROUGH THE SUSTAINABILITY LENS AND I THINK THIS WOULD BE A FABULOUS OPPORTUNITY TO ATTACK THAT. UM, I LIKE THE MULTI-USE. UM, I THINK SUSTAINABLE NEIGHBORHOODS AND COMMUNITIES WORK AROUND THE LIVE WORK PLAY SORT OF MANTRA. AND I THINK ACTUALLY MORE MIXED USE WOULD BE GREAT IF IT COULD. YOU HAD THAT ONE CONCEPT PLAN WITH THE MULTI-USE TWO RED COLUMNS, IF YOU COULD. OH, THAT, LIKE, THAT ONE, EVEN IF THE MULTI-USE COULD WRAP UP AROUND THE RIGHT HAND CORNER SO THAT BOTH OF THOSE SIDES WERE MULTI-USE AS WELL, SO THAT IT REALLY CREATES A WALKING ENVIRONMENT FOR THE PEOPLE THERE. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE MORE MIXED USE, UH, UM, AROUND THERE. SO IT CREATES A SORT OF A, A CHANNEL AND MORE WALKING. I MEAN THE, AS MUCH AS WE CAN MAKE THIS A WALKABLE COMMUNITY, THE BETTER IT'S GOT HEALTH BENEFITS FOR THE PHYSICAL PART. IT'S GOT ECONOMIC BENEFITS FOR THE INCREASED [02:10:01] FOOT TRAFFIC PAST YOUR LOCAL RETAIL. IT'S GOT ENVIRONMENTAL 'CAUSE IT LOWERS YOUR GREENHOUSE GASES. UM, AND THEN OF COURSE THE SOCIAL COMPONENT. SO I, I REALLY SEE THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO CREATE SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL THAT WE CAN BE PROUD OF AND THAT MAYBE WE CAN GET IN THE PAPER, YOU KNOW, LIKE OTHER PARTS OF PHOENIX HAVE. SO, UM, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT COMMUNITY SERVING RETAIL, LIKE YOU SAID, IT'S HARD, YOU KNOW, JUST SAYING 10,000 SQUARE FEET BECAUSE WHAT DOES COMMUNITY BASED RETAIL LOOK LIKE? IT'S MORE LIKE YOUR BANKS AND A PHARMACY OR A LAUNDROMAT OR A MARKET OR A LITTLE GROCERY STORE. SO IT'S THINGS THAT REALLY A GYM THAT COULD VARY IN SIZE, BUT IF YOU HAVE ALL OF THOSE AMENITIES, PEOPLE AREN'T GONNA BE IN THEIR CARS. THEY'RE GONNA WALK. UM, SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE DEVELOPING GEARED MORE TOWARDS THAT. UM, AND OF COURSE, OPEN SPACE. LOTS OF OPEN SPACE. UM, PLACEMAKING IS REALLY IMPORTANT. SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT PLACEMAKING AND CREATING A DEVELOPMENT LIKE THIS, YOU KNOW, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO CONTINUE TO HAVE RESIDENT INPUT. UM, I WAS A LITTLE BIT DISHEARTENED TO HEAR THAT, YOU KNOW, OUR TOP TWO PICKS WERE VOTED BY 35 PEOPLE OUT OF A COMMUNITY OF 9,800 OR SOMETHING. UM, THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DISCOURAGING, BUT I WILL SAY THAT THEY PRETTY MUCH GOT IT RIGHT. SO, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T COMPLAIN TOO MUCH. BUT, UM, SO CONTINUING TO HAVE RESIDENT INVOLVEMENT, CULTURAL IDENTITY IS HUGE. SO AN APPRECIATION OF THE HISTORY OF THE TOWN AS WELL AS IMPLEMENTING ART. UM, I THINK THAT'S A BIG COMPONENT OF THE PLACE MAKING HERE. AND WHETHER IT'S HAVING A PLACE FOR THE FILM FESTIVAL OR PUBLIC ART, YOU KNOW, BENCHES ON THE STREETS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S JUST SO MUCH THAT COULD BE DONE. VIBRANCY IS HUGE. SO THAT IT'S NOT JUST FUNCTIONAL, BUT IT'S MINDFUL AND IT HAS MEANING. AND I THINK THAT THAT'S GONNA BE REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THIS COMMUNITY AND FOR SEDONA AS A GREATER WHOLE TO REALLY, YOU KNOW, BUY INTO THIS AND WANNA SUPPORT IT, UM, AS A VENTURE. UM, WHAT ELSE DO I HAVE? LET'S SEE. STRONG SENSE OF COMMUNITY INTERCONNECTEDNESS. UM, OH YEAH, BIKE STOPS. I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S JUST REALLY IMPORTANT TOO. IF WE'RE GONNA TRY AND GET PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR CARS AND, YOU KNOW, AND LEAD FOR NEIGHBORHOODS, IT'S USUALLY YOU WANNA STOP EVERY, YOU KNOW, QUARTER MILE PLUS OR MINUS. SO, UH, I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT BECAUSE EVERYTHING WE CAN DO, EVEN IF, YOU KNOW, WORKING WITH A DEVELOPER DOWN THE ROAD, INCENTIVIZING PEOPLE GETTING OUTTA THEIR CARS, UM, LET'S BE THE MODEL. I WANT US TO BE THE MODEL WHEN WE MAKE THIS COMMUNITY HERE MOVING FORWARD. SO THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR HARD WORK. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS. MM-HMM . UM, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR GUYS'S HARD WORK. UM, I WENT TO BOTH PUBLIC MEETINGS AND PARTICIPATED IN BOTH SURVEYS AND ENCOURAGED, YOU KNOW, AND FAMILY MEMBERS, OR NOT FAMILY MEMBERS, COMMUNITY MEMBERS AND OTHER FOLKS TO PARTICIPATE IN THE SURVEYS IF THEY DIDN'T GO TO THE EVENTS. I THOUGHT YOUR EVENTS WERE SPOT ON. UM, I KNOW THERE WERE MORE THAN 60 PEOPLE AT SEVERAL OF THOSE EVENTS, SO IT'S TOO BAD THEY DIDN'T VOTE. BUT I COULD, I COULD SEE WHY. 'CAUSE THERE WAS A LOT OF CHATTING GOING ON, AND THEY'D BE LIKE, WHAT DO YOU, WHAT DO I DO WITH MY CHIPS ? UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE GREAT PROGRAMS, GREAT WAY TO INTERACT WITH THE COMMUNITY. UM, I, YOU KNOW, RANDOMLY WOULD ASK PEOPLE THEIR THOUGHTS AND, AND THE FOLKS THAT I SPOKE TO WERE REALLY HAPPY TO BE PART OF THE ENGAGEMENT PROCESS. THEY ENJOYED THE ACTIVITIES, ESPECIALLY THE BUBBLE ACTIVITY, THE FIRST ONE WE DID. UM, SO I, I REALLY GIVE YOU HIGH MARKS ON GETTING FOLKS ENTER, ENTERTAINED, ENGAGED, AND COMMITTED TO COME BACK. SO SOME OF THOSE FOLKS CAME BACK THAT SECOND TIME. SO, UM, I THOUGHT THAT WAS GREAT. UM, SO I'M GONNA SAY A BAD WORD HERE, BUT I REALLY THINK THAT THE APARTMENTS NEED TO BE MORE THAN FOUR STORIES IN THE BACK. MM-HMM . UM, AND I, I, YOU KNOW, I, I WOULD LIKE TO JUST LEAVE THAT AS AN OPTION FOR THE CITY IN THE FUTURE TO REALLY THINK ABOUT THAT OPPORTUNITY AS WE LOOK AT DEVELOPMENT. IF IT'S ONE MORE STORY, IS THAT PET HOUSE LEVEL, WHAT'S GONNA FUND OUR AFFORDABLE HOUSING? I MEAN, THOSE ARE REALLY GOOD QUESTIONS TO ASK THE DEVELOPER AS WE GO FORWARD. AND WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? 'CAUSE IF WE CAN MAKE THAT HAPPEN, THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE MORE AFFORDABLE PLACES FOR FOLKS TO LIVE IN. AND OF COURSE, ALSO AFFORDABILITY, LIKE ON THE TOWNHOUSES FOR PURCHASE THAT WEREN'T EIGHT, YOU KNOW, 900,000 MILLION DOLLARS. RIGHT. SO, UM, SO I, I LOOK AT THAT. UH, I'VE HAD THE, I GUESS THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO SEVERAL HIGH-RISE APARTMENT COMPLEXES, HIGH END, AND DO RECOGNIZE THAT THERE'S A LOT OF VALUE INTO THAT. UM, BUT I DO KNOW IT WAS VOTED NOW, AND I DO KNOW SEVEN STORIES IS TOO HIGH FOR SEDONA, BUT I'D LIKE TO LEAVE THAT OPEN FOR Y'ALL TO JUST PUT THAT IN THE BACK OF YOUR HEAD. UM, AS I LOOK AT PROJECTS LIKE THIS, ESPECIALLY WITH COMMUNITY SPACES, AND I LOOK AT THE COST THAT THAT IS FOR THE [02:15:01] CITIES, UM, I KNOW THAT DEVELOPING A PARK OR A REC CENTER IS EXPENSIVE. I KNOW THAT PUTTING A POOL IN A PUBLIC SPACE IS SUPER EXPENSIVE. AND SO MOST CITIES WOULD TRY TO DO SOME SORT OF PRIVATE PUBLIC PARTNERSHIP OR A PUBLIC PUBLIC PARTNERSHIP, LIKE WITH A SCHOOL DISTRICT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO HELP FUND THAT KIND OF INFRASTRUCTURE BECAUSE IT IS SO, SO COSTLY. UH, SO I'D LIKE TO SEE, YOU KNOW, OVERALL THIS IS MORE ON THE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN, REALLY, IS IT JUST SOME PRIVATE PUBLIC PARTNERSHIPS TO OFFSET SOME OF THESE COSTS? 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, BUILDING A PARK IS NOT CHEAP. MAINTAINING A PARK IS NOT CHEAP. AND, AND HOW DO WE DO THAT LONG TERM, ESPECIALLY WITH A CITY WITH NO PROPERTY TAX? SO THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN ALL TELL I AM AN ACCOUNTANT. SO THOSE ARE ALL THOSE THINGS THAT WE THINK ABOUT WHEN WE'RE DOING THESE BIG DEVELOPMENTS IS, HEY, WHAT'S THAT OVERALL COST FOR THE CITY IN THE LONG RUN? UM, I LOVE THE IDEA OF HAVING A SEXY ANCHOR LIKE THEONA FILM FEST FESTIVAL, UH, RIGHT THERE AT THE GATEWAY OF OUR CITY, BECAUSE PEOPLE COME TO OUR CITY FOR THAT. BUT I, I THINK THAT ANY KIND OF ART, ENVIRONMENTAL, OUTSIDE ATTRACTION RIGHT IN THAT COMMERCIAL AREA IS SUPER IMPORTANT FOR OUR CITY. 'CAUSE THAT IS THE GATEWAY. THAT'S WHO WE ARE. WE'RE THE ARTS IN THE, IN THE ENVIRONMENT. MM-HMM . THOSE TWO THINGS. UM, MOSTLY EVERYTHING SARAH SAID, I TOTALLY, TOTALLY AGREE WITH. UM, I LOVE THIS IDEA OF SUSTAINABILITY. WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO BE THE HEAD OF THAT, THE FRONT OF THAT IN OUR COMMUNITY AND IN THE VERDE VALLEY FOR A LONG TIME. WE'VE BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN SEVERAL PROJECTS. IT'D BE BEAUTIFUL TO SEE LAST PAYMENT. IT WOULD BE BEAUTIFUL TO SEE THIS BIKING IDEA. UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALL THESE GOOD PROBLEM SOLVING IDEAS WITH GROCERIES. UM, THERE'S WALKABILITY COMMUNITIES ALL OVER THE NATION. AND I THINK THAT WE SHOULD LOOK AT SOME OF THOSE MODELS WITH THE DEVELOPERS TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE THAT WORK. UM, BEING A NEW CYCLIST, SO-SO , UM, YOU KNOW, NOW I'M MORE INTERESTED IN, HEY, WHERE ARE THOSE MIXED USE PATHS? HOW DO I, HOW DO I STAY SAFE? HOW DO I NOT GET ON 89 A? HOW DOES THAT CONNECT TO WHOLE FOODS? HOW DOES THAT CONNECT TO POSSE PARK? AND I THINK SOMETHING LIKE THIS IS JUST SUPER HELPFUL, UH, TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. BECAUSE IF I DON'T HAVE TO DRIVE MY CAR TO GO TO WHOLE FOODS, I LIVE BY WHOLE FOODS. 'CAUSE YOU CAN, AND TO SAY, I ALL KNOW IF I DON'T HAVE TO DRIVE MY CAR, I CAN WALK IN IN A HALF HOUR, OR I CAN RIDE MY BIKE IN FIVE MINUTES. SO SAME CONCEPT HERE. RIGHT? AND, AND I THINK WE SAW THAT IN THE WESTERN GATEWAY. UM, CFA, HOW DO WE MAKE THIS MORE? WHAT CAN WE DO TO MAKE THAT MORE BIKEABLE? SO I THINK THAT THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY KEY. AND THEN ALL THE SUSTAINABILITY STUFF. I KNOW TODAY'S SUSTAINABILITY PRICES ARE A LITTLE HIGH, BUT IS PERMEABLE PAYMENT REALLY GONNA BE EXPENSIVE IN FIVE YEARS? MAYBE NOT, BECAUSE IT'S GONNA BE MORE COMMON. SO I THINK THAT THERE'S, AND THERE'S LIKE COOL THINGS COMING OUT NOWADAYS THAT ARE INEXPENSIVE AND SUPER FUN. SO I THINK THERE'S LIKE SO MANY COOL THINGS THAT WE CAN DO HERE. LOVE THE PLAN, LOVE YOUR WORK. UM, I JUST, I'VE JUST BEEN VERY, VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE AMOUNT OF WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE. SO THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU. AND I JUST WANNA ADD ON, I AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT THE PARTNERSHIP THING BECAUSE I MEAN, AND PERFECT OPPORTUNITIES. LIKE I KNOW YAVAPAI COLLEGE HAS A CULINARY PROGRAM, SO IF WE HAD A ONE ACRE COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, GARDENS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR NOT ONLY A PARTNERSHIP, BUT EDUCATION AND MM-HMM . SO THAT'S, YEAH. THAT'S GREAT. WELL, I, I THINK THIS IS AN IMPORTANT MOMENT IN SEDONAS HISTORY TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY LIKE THIS WITH CITY OWNED PROPERTY TO ACTUALLY FULFILL SOME OF THE GOALS IN THE COMMUNITY PLAN, UH, WHICH WAS RECENTLY ADOPTED AND, AND ADDRESSED THE HOUSING SHORTAGE AND SCARCITY AND THE WESTERN GATEWAY. UH, CFA BRINGS THAT, UH, FORWARD. SO WITH THE ARC OF PLANNING PROCESS AND PUBLIC COMMENTS, UM, I THINK WE HAVE, UM, A MANDATE TO ADDRESS HOUSING IN THIS COMMUNITY IN THIS WAY. I THINK IT IS BOLD BECAUSE IT IS DENSE AND, AND IT IS PROPOSING MULTI STORIES. AND WE HAVEN'T REALLY HAD TO ADDRESS THAT BEFORE. UM, SO I, I ENCOURAGE US ALL TO THINK IN BOLD TERMS TO MEET THE NEEDS THAT ARE HERE. FAMILIES THAT WANT TO HAVE A STAKE IN SEDONA FAMILIES THAT ARE WORKING IN OUR SUPERMARKETS AND IN DOCTOR'S OFFICES. AND, UM, AND IF WE, IF WE COME UP WITH THAT MAGIC MIX, I SEE THIS AS A REALLY VIBRANT PLACE THAT PEOPLE WILL WANT TO LIVE. IF, UM, WE HAVE STROLLERS AND WALKERS GOING THROUGH THESE STREETS, UM, IF WE HAVE SENIORS AND SINGLES AND FAMILIES, WOULDN'T THAT BE A COOL PLACE TO BE? UM, BUT I ALSO, BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE LIVING THERE, I ALSO WANNA SEE IT LIVABLE. AND LIVABLE FOR ME WOULD BE THE CAPACITY, BE [02:20:01] ABLE TO WALK THE ENTIRE AREA OR BIKE IT, OR HAVE MY TEEN SON ON A SKATEBOARD. UM, IT MIGHT HAVE A CLIMBING WALL, IT WOULD HAVE A DOG PARK, IT WOULD HAVE WATER STATIONS. MM-HMM . THE KINDS OF AMENITIES THAT WE SEE DOTTED AROUND THE COMMUNITY. NOW, I THINK WE CAN TAKE WHAT IS A, UM, A, A LIVING, BREATHING, SUSTAINABLE, UH, ENVIRONMENT AND ENHANCE IT IN A WAY THAT IT WILL BE A DESIRABLE PLACE TO LIVE. SO I'M LOOKING AT WHAT YOU WOULD DO IN THE PUBLIC REALM TO ADD THOSE KINDS OF AMENITIES ALONG WITH THE NORMAL INFRASTRUCTURE, TO REALLY BUILD IT OUT IN A WAY THAT PEOPLE WOULD BE PROUD TO LIVE THERE AND THEY'D BE ON WAITING LISTS TO LIVE THERE. UM, I THINK IT'S EXCITING THAT PATRICK HAS COME TO US WITH THIS IDEA FOR, UH, THE SEDONA INTERNATIONAL FILM FESTIVAL. IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A, A PERFECT, UM, IT'S A PERFECT PARTNERSHIP, UM, TO SEE THIS ORGANIZATION THAT HAS SUCH A LONG HISTORY, UM, WANT TO BUILD OUT AND DO MORE AND, AND CONTRIBUTE MORE TO THE ARTS AND CULTURE ENVIRONMENT OF THIS COMMUNITY. SO I'M 100% BEHIND, UM, THAT VENTURE. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE THE, UM, THAT COMMERCIAL SECTOR, UM, CAREFULLY ADDRESS THE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY ITSELF. AND I DON'T, I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THAT IS, BUT IN MY MIND, IT WOULD BE A, A CONVENIENCE MARKET. IT WOULD BE SOME OF THE OTHER, UM, UH, USES THAT YOU SUGGESTED SARAH. BUT TO, UM, ELIMINATE, TO PROMOTE WALKING AND ELIMINATE DRIVING, AND TO HAVE THE CONVENIENCE OF SOME OF THOSE KINDS OF COMMERCIAL, UM, SERVICES. I, I HOPE WE WOULD DO OUR BEST TO ENCOURAGE THE RIGHT KIND OF PEOPLE TO, UH, COME THERE AND CONTRIBUTE TO THAT, UM, TO THAT SITE. UM, I THINK THAT'S IT. SO DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH FROM THE GROUP TO CARRIE AND, AND MR. HICKS, DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH TO NO, NOT REALLY. . NO. I, I REALLY APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS. I REALLY DO. I THINK THIS REALLY HELPS GET US FOCUSED IN, AND OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, WE NEVER KNOW WE WORK, YOU KNOW, WITHIN, UH, YOU KNOW, THE PUBLIC AREA ARENA, BUT IT, EVERY TIME, YOU KNOW, YOU KIND OF INTERPRET THESE, YOU SOMEWHAT FEEL LIKE YOU'RE STILL WORKING IN A VACUUM, SO TO SPEAK. MM-HMM . MM-HMM . AS WE CALL. AND SO WHEN WE START BRINGING PLANS FORWARD, TO HAVE THESE KIND OF COMMENTS IS REALLY HELPS US NOW SHARPEN THINGS TO WHERE IT BECOMES MORE REFLECTIVE OF YOUR COMMUNITY. BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S REFLECTIVE OF SORT OF JAY'S COMMUNITY IN HIS MIND. GET IT OUT OF MY MIND AND GET IT INTO YOUR MIND AND, AND BASICALLY REFLECTIVE. BUT LIKE I SAID, I THINK JUST HEARING YOUR COMMENTS ON, UM, AND A LOT OF COMMON COMMENTS TOO BETWEEN YOU, WHICH I REALLY APPRECIATE. SO, BUT WE'LL DO OUR VERY BEST NEXT GO AROUND TOO, TO GET THIS EVEN BETTER, UH, SUITED. SO THANK YOU. I MEAN, FOLLOW UP FROM ANY OF THE COMMISSIONERS. I HAVE ONE THING TO SAY, I FORGOT TO SAY, AND I THINK WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD. IT'S JUST TO SAY THANK YOU TO OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS THAT SPENT THE TIME TO GIVE COMMENTS BECAUSE IT'S, THOSE PLANS ARE SO IMPORTANT TO HEAR WHAT OUR COMMUNITY IS SAYING, AND FOR THEM TO GO TO OUR WEBSITE OR GO THROUGH THE PLANNED SEDONA WEBSITE AND GIVE US A FEEDBACK. I, I REALLY, REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. VERY MUCH SO, SO THANK YOU. I'D LIKE TO ECHO THAT SENTIMENT AND IT WAS IN MY MIND AS WELL. I APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK THAT WE GOT FROM THE COMMISSION TONIGHT. THE FEEDBACK THAT WE GOT FROM WHERE'D EVERYONE GO, FROM, FROM, UH, THE PART, THE RESIDENTS, PARTICIPANTS TONIGHT, BUT ALSO THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE PROCESS. UM, WHEN YOU LOOK AT ADDING UP ALL THE PEOPLE THAT CAME TO OUR, UH, OUR PUBLIC OUTREACH MEETINGS, ALL THE PEOPLE THAT TOOK ALL OF THE SURVEYS, ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WENT TO PLAN SEDONA.COM, UM, UH, TO, TO PUT IN, TO LOOK AT THESE PLANS AND PUT IN THEIR COMMENTS, UH, MUCH APPRECIATED. THAT'S THE TYPE OF FEEDBACK WE NEED. SO THANK YOU. I THINK WE'RE DONE WITH THIS AGENDA ITEM. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. HICKS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. LET'S SEE IF I FIND MY, WE'LL [6. FUTURE MEETING DATES AND AGENDA ITEMS] MOVE ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SIX, FUTURE MEETING DATES AND AGENDA ITEMS. THERE IS NO MEETING ON MAY 6TH. THAT ONE WILL BE CANCELED. I DIDN'T HEAR YOU. OH, CANCELED ON MAY 6TH. OKAY. UM, MAY 20TH. WE HAVE A, [02:25:01] WE HAVE TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS, ONE FOR A SUBDIVISION, SMALL SUBDIVISION, AND ONE OFF OF BREWER ROAD. ONE FOR, UM, THE ALCHEMIST PROJECT IS REQUESTING A TIME EXTENSION. UM, THEIR PROJECT WOULD EXPIRE IN A COUPLE MONTHS, AND SO THEY'RE BE ASKING FOR A LITTLE MORE TIME TO BE ABLE TO BUILD THEIR PROJECT. THAT WAS THE METERY AND HOUSING PROJECT THAT CAME THROUGH A COUPLE YEARS AGO. UM, AND THEN THAT IS ALSO THE DATE THAT DEPENDING ON, WE WILL, WE'LL TALK WITH, WITH THE REPRESENTATIVES FROM DIG, BUT THAT WOULD BE THE NEXT TIME YOU WOULD POTENTIALLY SEE THIS COME BACK TO YOU THAT QUICKLY. UM, THAT, WELL, THAT WOULD BE THE NEXT POTENTIAL TIME. AGAIN, WE'LL HAVE TO TALK TO THEM AND SEE WHAT, WHAT TIME TIMING LOOKS LIKE ON THAT. MM-HMM . UM, BUT YEAH, SO, BUT WE DEFINITELY HAVE THE, THE TWO FOR THE SUBDIVISION AND THE TIME EXTENSION. WE'LL DEFINITELY BE MEETING THAT DATE FOR AT LEAST THOSE TWO ITEMS. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. I'M GONNA NOT BE PRESENT ON JUNE 3RD. OKAY. SO THAT'S THE CASE THAT GOT SENT. SO ANYWAY. OKAY. OKAY. YEAH. AND IF OTHERS ARE PLANNING SUMMER VACATIONS, PLEASE, YOU DON'T NEED TO TELL ME WHERE YOU'RE GOING. I DON'T NEED TO BE THAT JEALOUS . BUT, UM, JUST LET ME KNOW SO WE CAN MAKE SURE WE HAVE QUORUMS AS WE TRY TO SCHEDULE OUT SOME OTHER THINGS THAT ARE COMING UP. YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. UM, IF THERE'S NO FURTHER BUSINESS, WE'LL ADJOURN AT, UH, SEVEN 14. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.