Sep 03, 2025 Tourism Advisory Board (TAB) Meeting

STATES, OTHER DESTINATIONS AND OTHER STATES AS WELL.

WELL, I HOPE EVERYBODY HAD A WONDERFUL HOLIDAY WEEKEND.

UH, WE DO HAVE A FEW STAFF ANNOUNCEMENTS.

ONE IS THAT I WILL BE LEAVING THIS MEETING EARLY TO GO ATTEND THE ARIZONA LODGING AND TOURISM ASSOCIATION FORECAST.

UH, BUT YOU'LL BE IN GREAT HANDS WITH LAUREN AS ALWAYS.

UM, BUT SPEAKING OF LAUREN, YOU HAVE A NEW ROLE AT THE CITY.

DO YOU WANNA JUST LET FOLKS KNOW? I DO.

I AM THE ONE OF ONE OF TWO NEW DEPUTY CITY MANAGERS.

SO THERE'S NOW THREE DEPUTY CITY MANAGERS.

UM, THAT'S ANDY DICKEY, UH, BARBARA WHITEHORN, AND MYSELF.

UM, IN THIS NEW ROLE, I WILL STILL BE OVERSEEING TOURISM, SO I'M NOT GOING ANYWHERE, .

UM, UH, BUT I WILL ALSO OVERSEE, UM, SUSTAINABILITY, IT ARTS AND CULTURE.

UM, BUT THE COMMUNICATION SIDE OF THINGS, UM, WILL GO DIRECTLY TO ANNETTE SINCE THAT'S IMPORTANT TO KEEP THAT LINE, UM, DIRECT.

SO, YEAH.

UH, EXCITING THINGS.

UM, LOOKING FORWARD TO IT.

AND YEAH, I'M STILL VERY MUCH INVOLVED WITH TOURISM, SO DON'T WORRY.

CONGRATULATIONS.

YEAH, CONGRATULATIONS.

SO, I HAVE A QUESTION.

UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT AS WE'VE BEEN MEETING IS THE NECESSITY TO HAVE THESE INTERSECTIONS BETWEEN ALL OF THE DEPARTMENTS YOU JUST NAMED.

SO I'M THINKING POSSIBLY THAT THIS WILL BE A GOOD THING FOR OUR MORE HOLISTIC WAY OF THINKING ABOUT TOURISM AND WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT? YEAH, I AGREE.

AND, UM, WE ALSO HAVE A SECTION AT THE END OF THIS AGENDA, UM, IN WHICH WE'RE GONNA ASK ABOUT ADDITIONAL TOPICS THAT YOU ALL WOULD LIKE TO COVER.

AND SO IF THERE ARE CERTAIN DEPARTMENTS THAT YOU ALL WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT, I KNOW THAT'S KIND OF BEEN AN ONGOING THING THAT YOU'VE BEEN ASKING FOR, BUT WE'VE KIND OF HAD THESE FRONT AND CENTER PRESSING THINGS THAT WE'VE NEEDED TO TAKE CARE OF.

UM, BUT IF, IF THERE'S OTHER THINGS THAT YOU'D LIKE TO BE INFORMED ABOUT AND KNOW ABOUT, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT THEN AND WE CAN GET THOSE THINGS TEED UP.

OH, GREAT.

SO ANOTHER ANNOUNCEMENT IS THAT WE ARE CURRENTLY ACCEPTING APPLICATIONS FOR, UH, WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY FIVE VACANCIES ON THE TAB.

WE'VE GOT, UM, THREE FOLKS THAT ARE, WELL, FIVE FOLKS ARE TERMING OUT.

UM, AND WE'RE REALLY LOOKING FOR, ESSENTIALLY THREE FOLKS HAVE OFFERED TO REAPPLY, BUT TWO ARE CERTAINLY NEEDED.

SO IF YOU KNOW FOLKS THAT ARE INTERESTED IN APPLYING FOR THE TAB, UM, IT REMAINS A COMPETITIVE PROCESS.

PROCESS.

JUST 'CAUSE YOU REAPPLY.

DOESN'T MEAN IT'S GUARANTEED.

BUT, UM, THERE ARE CURRENTLY FIVE VACANCIES.

SO I WILL SEND SOME INFORMATION ABOUT THAT, UH, IN THE FOLLOW UP EMAIL.

UM, BUT WE'D LOVE YOUR SUPPORT ON OUTREACH FOR IT.

AND THEN, UM, I KNOW I SENT THIS IN THE FOLLOW UP, UH, AT THE END OF LAST MONTH, UH, LAST MONTH'S TAB.

UH, BUT WE DO HAVE A VOLUNTEER APPRECIATION BRUNCH ON TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 16TH.

YOU ARE ALL INVITED AS VOLUNTEERS ON THE TAB.

IT'LL BE FROM 10:30 AM TO NOON.

UH, WE KINDLY ASK THAT YOU RSVP WITH KEEGAN HALL.

UM, SO I'LL PUT THAT IN THE FOLLOW UP AS WELL.

BUT, UM, IF YOU CAN EMAIL HER OR EVEN GIVE HER A CALL, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

SO WE COULD NOTE YOU.

THE DEADLINE IS SEPTEMBER FOUR, BUT I KNEW WE WERE MEETING TODAY, SO I SAID LET'S AT LEAST GET THIS REMINDER IN PLACE.

SO YES, AND PLEASE COME.

WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE YOU THERE.

IT'S THE LEAST WE CAN DO.

YOU ALL VOLUNTEER SO MUCH TIME FOR US.

LET US, LET US TREAT YOU TO A BRUNCH ONCE A YEAR.

UM, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I I, I DID HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TO ATTEND TWO INDUSTRY CONFERENCES IN JULY, WHICH WAS THE AIR ARIZONA GOVERNOR'S CONFERENCE ON TOURISM AND THEN THE US TRAVEL EDUCATIONAL SEMINAR FOR TOURISM ORGANIZATIONS, ALSO KNOWN AS ESTO, UM, WHICH WAS ALSO IN PHOENIX IN AUGUST.

UM, JUST A REALLY WONDERFUL TIME TO CONTINUE TO BUILD RELATIONSHIPS, GET TO KNOW OUR ARIZONA DESTINATIONS, BETTER CHAT WITH OTHER

[00:05:01]

UM, REALLY KIND OF CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN A PULSE ON THE CHANGES THAT ARE HAPPENING TO OUR INDUSTRY RIGHT NOW.

UM, WE CONTINUE TO HEAR SORT OF TOP LINE, AND AGAIN, I JUST GOT A PRESENTATION TODAY FROM TOURISM ECONOMICS, BUT THE PRESENTATION I HEARD FROM THEM TWO MONTHS AGO WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE POSITIVE THAN SOME OF THE NEWER INFORMATION THAT'S COMING OUT.

BUT JUST KNOW THAT THAT IS AN ASPECT OF MY JOB IS MAKING SURE THAT WE REMAIN IN COMMUNICATION WITH OTHER DESTINATIONS, REMAIN ON TOP OF TIMELY, TIMELY RESEARCH.

UM, ONE THING I DID WANT TO JUST SHARE WITH FOLKS, IT'S SOMETHING I'VE BEEN REFLECTING ON WITH OUR TEAM IS THAT, UM, A LOT OF DMO ARE SEEING A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION IN WEBSITE TRAFFIC AT THE MOMENT.

UM, AND A LOT OF THAT IS THROUGH KIND OF LANGUAGE MODELS SEARCHING.

UM, SO PEOPLE ARE GETTING SERVED UP AI RESULTS BEFORE THEY'RE SEEING THE DMO RESULTS.

UM, ONE THING THAT WAS CALLED OUT BY SOME OF OUR RESEARCH FIRMS IS OUR WEBSITE TRAFFIC CONTINUES TO GROW.

UM, AND THAT'S SORT OF PUT US ON A DIFFERENT TRAJECTORY.

PART OF IT IS WE'RE SO NEW , I THINK THAT'S A BIG PIECE OF IT, BUT IT'S NICE TO KNOW THAT 'CAUSE REALLY WE ARE IN MANY WAYS, YOU KNOW, MOST OF THE VISITS THAT WE'RE GETTING WE'RE, WE'RE IN SOME WAY ASKING FOR WHETHER IT'S PAYING OR THROUGH ORGANIC SOCIAL.

BUT THOSE STRATEGIES CONTINUE TO WORK, WHICH IS EXCITING FOR US AND IT'S PUT US ON A BIT OF A DIFFERENT TRAJECTORY THAN A LOT OF THE OTHER D OS NATIONALLY.

SO, UM, THAT'S SOMETHING WE'LL CONTINUE TO WORK ON AND EXPAND IS GONNA BE MORE WEBSITE CONTENT, MORE PAID SEARCH TOWARDS THAT WEBSITE CONTENT.

BUT JUST WANTED TO SHARE THAT.

UM, WE'RE A LITTLE BIT UNIQUE IN THAT SPACE RIGHT NOW.

AND THEN I WILL SEND THESE TO YOU, UM, AS A LINK.

UH, BUT WE'VE GOTTEN SOME RECENT PRESS COVERAGE ABOUT SEDONA THAT'S RESULTED FROM SOME OF THE PRESS TRIPS THAT WE HELPED ORGANIZE IN JUNE.

UH, NOTABLY WE DID GET THE NINE MINUTE SEGMENT FROM ALO DEUTSCHLAND, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY LIKE A GOOD MORNING AMERICA FOR THE GERMAN MARKET.

UH, IT'S A NINE MINUTE SEGMENT, I THINK OF A SHOT VERY, VERY, VERY BEAUTIFULLY.

UM, EXCITED FOR YOU TO SEE IT.

YOU MAY NOT UNDERSTAND IT.

IT'S VERY MUCH IN GERMAN.

MY GERMAN, UM, CAITLIN DID IDENTIFY THAT IF YOU LISTEN TO IT IN YOUTUBE YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO PUT CLOSE CAPTIONS ONTO IT.

UM, BUT A REALLY NICE REPRESENTATION OF THE VERDE VALLEY WAS REALLY WHAT WE WENT FOR WITH THAT ONE.

WE DID PARTNER WITH THE CITY OF COTTONWOOD ON THAT ONE.

UM, AND THEN WE DID A POST IPW PRESS TRIP WITH A OT WITH THE AUSTRALIAN MARKET.

UM, AND THOSE ARE THOSE OTHER TWO ARTICLES THAT CAME OUT.

UM, THE ONE ON THE RIGHT IS NEW ZEALAND HERALD AND THE ONE ON THE LEFT IS NEWS.COM A UH, AU.

UM, AND THEN I JUST GOT THE EMAIL, UH, WE DID THE INVESTMENT IN THE 12 NEWS IN PHOENIX DESTINATION TAKEOVER FOR ARIZONA MIDDAY.

THAT IS CURRENTLY, OR JUST FINISHED AIRING AT TWO 30.

SO I SHOULD GET A, UM, I SHOULD GET A COPY OF THAT.

'CAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW TO WATCH CABLE LIVE ANYMORE.

I'M A MILLENNIAL , BUT , BUT I WILL FIND IT ON THE INTERNETS AFTERWARDS.

, I FEEL YOU.

BUT I'M EXCITED TO ALSO HAVE THAT.

SO, UM, I'LL BE ABLE TO PUT ALL THAT INTO THE FOLLOW FOLLOW-UP EMAIL THAT YOU ALL GET SO WE DON'T HAVE TO WATCH IT DURING THE TAB MEETING.

OKAY, BACK, BACK TO YOU JOHN.

SOUND GOOD? UH, WE NEED APPROVAL OF

[3.a. Minutes from Wednesday, August 6, 2025 meeting]

THE AUGUST 6TH MAINTENANCE.

ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE AUGUST 6TH MAINTENANCE? NO.

NO.

MOVE TO APPROVE.

SECOND.

ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

AYE.

ALL OPPOSED? APPROVED.

UH, ANY CARDS? NO CARDS.

REGULAR

[5.a. State of Sedona Tourism Research]

BUSINESS.

SO I KNOW WE'VE BEEN DOING RESEARCH AT THE END, BUT BECAUSE I WOULD BE LEAVING EARLY, WE'RE DOING IT AT THE BEGINNING AND THEN I'LL HAND THINGS OVER TO LAUREN.

UM, SO, UH, WE CONTINUE TO SEE A SIMILAR TREND, AT LEAST IN THE SMITH TRAVEL RESEARCH AND THE KEY DATA, UM, THAT WE'RE SEEING THAT IS THAT HOTELS REMAIN DOWN, UM, IN JULY.

AND SHORT TERM RENTALS REMAIN UP IN JULY.

UM, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S MORE BUSINESS HAPPENING IN THIS DATA WITHIN THE HOTEL MARKET, UM, THAN IT IS IN THE SHORT TERM RENTAL MARKET, BUT WE CONTINUE TO SEE THAT TREND.

UM, WANNA JUST REMIND YOU THAT UM, OCCUPANCY IS ONLY DOWN 3% WHILE REVENUE'S DOWN 7.4.

THAT'S BECAUSE POCA DIABLO IS NO LONGER REPORTING IN THE STUDY AREA.

SO THAT'S GIVE OR TAKE ABOUT 5%, 4% OF THE TOTAL SUPPLY.

SO THAT'S WHY THOSE NUMBERS ARE TYPICALLY CLOSER TOGETHER.

BUT JUST KNOW THAT WITH POCO DIABLO IN THE STUDY AREA, YOU PROBABLY SEE MORE LIKE A, YOU KNOW, 7% DOWN IN OCCUPANCY FIGURE THERE FOR YOU.

QUESTION.

UM, IF YOU ADD UP THE, THE NUMBERS AND THEN LOOK AT THE TOTAL REVENUE, IS IT FAIR TO SAY IF YOU ADD UP THE REVENUE, FOR INSTANCE, THE YEAR TO DATE 1 15 54 AND CHANGE IN 29, IS THAT THE TOTAL REVENUE FOR BOTH THE HOTELS AND THE SHORT TERM RENTALS OF BOTH TYPES? UM, NO.

UM, AND THE REASON WHY IS THAT THE SEDONA PLUS STUDY AREA INCLUDES ENCHANTMENT AND INCLUDES JUNE PINE RESORT AND DOES NOT INCLUDE A GOOD PORTION OF THE HOTELS THAT ARE IN SEDONA.

IT IS 80% OF THE ROOMS, I THINK, NOT 77% OF THE ROOMS WITHIN THE CITY OF SEDONA.

BUT, UM, I WOULD NOT ONE-TO-ONE THESE, UH, WE REALLY DO LOOK AT THE BED TAX DATA THAT WE GET FROM THE CITY, UM, AS THE KIND OF END RESULT

[00:10:01]

THERE.

SO IF YOU WERE TO MAKE A 80% GUESSTIMATE, WHAT'S THE PERCENTAGE OF, UH, IF YOU ADD THE, I GUESS THE SCRAPED AIRBNB AND THE SCRAPED BEER, BUT HOW MUCH IS THE PERCENTAGE OF THE TOTAL BUSINESS OF TOTAL, UM, HOUSING OR SHORT TERM LODGING PLUS SHORT-TERM RENTALS? WHAT'S THE PERCENTAGE OF THE SHORT TERM RENTALS? IF YOU HAD AN ACCURATE, LIKE WHAT PERCENTAGE OF TOTAL BUSINESS IN SEDONA IS THE SHORT TERM RENTALS? IT DUE THE SHORT TERM RENTAL BUSINESS? YEAH.

LIKE BED TAX.

YEAH, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT THAT IS, RIGHT? ISN'T THAT BED TAX RESULTS SORT OF, SORT OF, THAT'S, THAT'S GROSS REVENUE.

YOU'D BE, YOU'D BE APPLYING A TAX ON IT.

UM, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE LOOKING INTO WITH THE FINANCE TEAM RIGHT NOW.

I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR YOU TODAY, BUT UM, WE HOPE TO HAVE A ONE FOR YOU.

'CAUSE THOSE NUMBERS ARE 46% MM-HMM .

AND SO, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S 46 PLUS OR MINUS 46%, I DON'T KNOW.

THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET A SENSE FOR THAT.

YEAH, I I THINK YEAH, I I WOULDN'T ADD THESE UP TOGETHER AGAIN, THERE'S CAVEATS ACROSS THE BOARD, UM, AND I LOOK FORWARD TO GIVING YOU A MORE CONCRETE ANSWER HERE IN THE FUTURE 'CAUSE WE ARE LOOKING INTO THIS.

UM, BUT AGAIN, YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE SEEING OUT OF CITY REVENUE IN THE HOTELS, YOU'RE NOT SEEING ALL THE HOTEL REVENUE WITHIN THE CITY IN THAT TOP ONE.

AND THEN THIS IS SCRAPED SHORT-TERM RENTAL DATA.

SO THERE IS PROBABLY 11% OF THE REVENUE YOU'RE SEEING BETWEEN THOSE TWO ROWS IS BEING DOUBLE COUNTED ACROSS PROPERTIES THAT LIST ON BOTH PLATFORMS. SO IF ONE OF THEM GETS BOOKED ON AIRBNB, IT'S CONSIDERING IT A BOOKING ON VRBO.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF CONCERNS I WOULD HAVE WITH ADDING UP THE DATA, BUT THERE ARE OTHER WAYS WE'RE LOOKING INTO TO GET YOU AN ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION.

IT'S JUST TRYING TO GET A SENSE FOR, YOU KNOW, WHERE ARE WE, WHAT'S THE DIRECTION, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

YOU REMIND THEM WHY WE SWITCHED TO VISA? UM, IT WAS A RECOMMENDATION BY TOURISM ECONOMICS.

YEAH, I I THINK WE HAVE EVERY REASON TO BELIEVE THAT SHORT TERM RENTALS REPRESENT A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF OUR BED TECHS.

EVEN IF YOU SAY 46 MINUS 11 DOUBLE COUNTING, THAT'S STILL 35.

THAT'S A BIG NUMBER TOO.

SO AGAIN, PLUS OR MINUS, JUST CURIOUS.

THANK YOU.

WE'LL HAVE MORE ON THAT HOPEFULLY IN THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS.

UM, AND HERE'S, JUST LOOKING IN AT THE TWO MARKETS OF SEDONA PLUS VERSUS VILLAGE OF OAK CREEK.

UM, AGAIN, I WOULD SAY THAT IF YOU'VE BROUGHT POCO DIABLO SUPPLY BACK INTO THAT, WE'RE PRETTY MUCH PACING SIMILARLY IN TERMS OF OCCUPANCY.

YOU ARE SEEING SOME A DR GAINES IN THE SEDONA PLUS MARKET THAT YOU'RE NOT SEEING IN THE VILLAGE OF OAK CREEK MARKET.

UM, I ASKED OUR RESEARCHERS ABOUT THIS 'CAUSE I WAS LIKE, OCCUPANCY AS OF 8 27 IS THAT POINT, IS THAT 5.5 UP THE LAST FOUR DAYS OF THE MONTH? UM, IT IS FOR THE MONTH OF AUGUST.

SO, UM, IT DOES, IT DOES MEAN THAT, AND I'M SEEING THIS A LITTLE BIT IN THE WEEKLY SMITH TRAVEL RESEARCH REPORTS.

AUGUST, WEEK BY WEEK IS LOOKING UP YEAR OVER YEAR WITHIN THE HOTEL.

SO, UM, WE ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE FINAL, FINAL MONTHLY REPORT 'CAUSE THINGS GET NORMALIZED.

BUT IT'S NICE TO SEE THAT THAT IS A TREND, UM, THAT I'M SEEING IN OTHER, IN OTHER DATA SETS FOR AUGUST.

AGAIN, THIS IS A COMPLEX DATA SET IN THE SENSE OF IT'S NOT ALWAYS PERFECT, BUT, UM, YEAH, IT'S NICE TO SEE.

AGAIN, THIS IS A LOT, IF YOU GO BACK, YOU KNOW, SEVERAL MONTHS LEADING INTO THE SUMMER, WE WERE SEEING LIKE 20, 30% IN THE RED AND THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW.

THAT'S ANOTHER THING THAT I WOULD JUST BASICALLY CALL OUT.

UM, HERE'S YOUR AIRBNB AND VRBO COMPARISONS.

UM, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SEEING HERE, RIGHT, IS THAT IF YOU GO BACK TO, SO YOU KNOW, SEDONA PLUS A DR IS 2 42 FOR JULY.

UM, WE'RE LOOKING AT 3 94 AND FOUR 13.

SO 3 94 FOR AIRBNB AND FOUR 13 FOR VRBO.

UM, A CAVEAT WITH THAT, 'CAUSE I LOVE GIVING THEM IS THAT, UH, I DO BELIEVE THAT, UM, KEY DATA IS NOW TAKING THE CLEANING FEES AND ADDING THEM TO THE ROOM RATE.

SO THE A DR IS NOW INCLUSIVE OF THE CLEANING FEES THAT ARE TIED TO THAT ROOM.

SO THAT'S ESSENTIALLY ARTIFICIALLY INFLATED THOSE NUMBERS, BUT IN SOME WAYS IT'S MORE REALISTIC TO WHAT THE RATE IS.

SO I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY A GOOD THING THAT HAPPENED, BUT JUST KNOW THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT'S SOME NEW, NEW THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON WITH THE PRESENTATION OF THAT.

UM, AND AGAIN, AS RICHARD AND I TALKED ABOUT, I THINK WE'RE LOOKING AT WHEN WE DID A DE A DEDUPLICATION ACROSS AIRBNB AND VRBO, ABOUT 12% OF THE INVENTORY WAS ON BOTH PLATFORMS, WHICH MAKES IT HARD FOR US TO REPORT, BUT IT'S JUST A GOOD THING TO NOTE.

UM, THANK YOU.

AND HERE'S THE OUTLOOK.

AGAIN, WE CAN'T DO THIS YEAR OVER YEAR, BUT IT IS NICE TO SEE, UM, AGAIN, THE OCCUPANCY AT THE SHORT TERM RENTALS ALREADY BE IT.

THIS IS WHAT'S ALREADY ON THE BOOKS.

UM, SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT 36% OCCUPANCY FOR OCTOBER IS, IS SOMETHING I LIKE TO SEE.

AND THEN OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, ALTHOUGH NOVEMBER, YOU KNOW, IS ALREADY AT 20%, THE ADRS ARE HIGH.

SO IT'S NICE TO SEE THAT THAT'S ALREADY GOING UP FOR THE SHORT TERM RENTALS.

UM, HERE'S CREDIT CARD SPEND.

THIS IS THE LAST TIME WE'RE GONNA SEE THE TRANSUNION DATA.

UM, NEXT MONTH WE WILL HAVE THE VISA DATA, UM, BUT AT LEAST ACCORDING TO THIS DATA SET, UM, CREDIT CARD SPEND WAS UP.

UM, BUT AGAIN, UH, WE ALWAYS LOOK FOR THE CITY SALES AND BED TAX TO REALLY KNOW WHAT THE TRUE NUMBER OF WHAT WE SHOULD EXPECT TO SEE IS.

CAN

[00:15:01]

UM, THEY HAD BEEN HAVING ISSUES WITH HISTORICAL, UM, LOOK BACKS WITH TRANSUNION AND THEY MOVED ALL THEIR CLIENTS TO VISA.

SO, UM, VISA'S MORE, JUST WHEN I SAY IT'S JUST SLIGHTLY OVER 50% OF TOTAL CARDS, UM, BUT IT'S VERY STRONG WITHIN THAT 50% THAT IT IS.

SO IT ONLY SHOWS ONE CARD TYPE, BUT, UM, 52% .

THERE WE GO.

WHEN I LEFT, THERE WE GO.

YEAH, SLIGHTLY, SLIGHTLY MORE BOB.

SLIGHTLY MORE.

SO I WAS GONNA SAY 51, BUT YOU KNOW, 80% OF DEBIT.

AT LEAST 10 YEARS AGO.

COOL.

ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT, UM, RESEARCH? GET 'EM IN BEFORE HE LEAVES.

YEAH, , I WON'T BE ABLE TO ANSWER THEM THE WAY HE CAN.

I SAID I'D LEAVE AT THREE 30, SO I'M GONNA HANG OUT FOR 15 MINUTES.

[5.b. Summer 2025 destination marketing campaign update]

YOU, LAUREN.

ALL RIGHT.

SO I HAVE THE, UM, SUMMER CAMPAIGN UPDATE.

THIS IS GONNA BE A WEIRD ONE, UM, JUST BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE ALL OF THE RESULTS.

UM, AND THE RESULTS I DO HAVE, I GOT THEM YESTERDAY.

AND SO I'VE BEEN KIND OF SCRAMBLING TO TRY AND PUT THE STORY TOGETHER, UM, AND MAKE SENSE OF IT ALL.

SO, UM, AS YOU KNOW, THIS WAS THE CREATIVE, UM, THAT WAS LAUNCHED.

I JUST PICKED FOUR OF THEM.

THANK YOU AGAIN, ALTHEA FOR VOLUNTEERING YOUR LOVELY FAMILY.

NO PROBLEM.

SO LOVELY.

SO, UM, THIS WAS THE INITIAL, UM, CAMPAIGN THAT WAS ORIGINALLY PITCHED TO YOU.

IT, UM, RAN FROM MAY 15TH TO AUGUST 31ST.

IT WAS $163,582.

YOU CAN SEE THAT PAID SEARCH WAS 12,000 META ADS FOR IN MARKET.

THAT IS SEDONA AND 25 MILE RADIUS.

AND THE PHOENIX AREA WAS 14,500 META ADS OUT OF MARKET, WHICH ALSO INCLUDES PHOENIX WAS 21,000 ATTRIBUTION WEB-BASED ADS FOR OUT OF MARKET WAS 70,500.

AND THEN THE NEW PLAYER THIS TIME AROUND WAS THE ATTRIBUTION CTV ADS FOR OUT OF MARKET OF $45,582.

UM, THOSE OUT OF MARKET CITIES, UH, THAT WE DETERMINED TO MARKET TO WERE ALL BASED ON, UM, PRIOR HISTORY OF VISITATION AND SPEND HERE.

AND THOSE MARKETS ARE PHOENIX, LA, TUCSON, SAN FRANCISCO, VEGAS, SAN DIEGO, DALLAS, CHICAGO, SEATTLE, AND DENVER.

YOU ALL KNOW WE HAD A SECONDARY CAMPAIGN, UM, THAT WE ADDED TO IT.

UH, AND WHAT WE DID WITH THAT WAS, UH, FROM OUR OWN SALES AND BED TAX DATA, OUR TRAFFIC DATA, AND THEN FROM AN ANONYMOUS SURVEY THAT WE SENT OUT TO, UM, SEVERAL OF THE BUSINESS OWNERS, WE HEARD THAT IT WAS, UM, SUBSTANTIALLY LOWER AND SLOWER THAN IT NORMALLY IS, UM, IN JUNE.

AND SO, UM, IN JULY WE WENT TO COUNCIL TO ASK FOR, UM, A CAMPAIGN BETWEEN JULY 25TH AND AUGUST 31ST, 31ST TO TURN OFF THE SPEND IN THE LOWEST PERFORMING MARKETS.

THAT'S SEATTLE, CHICAGO, AND DENVER.

AND THEN REALLOCATE THAT SPEND TO ALL THE DRIVE MARKETS.

WE WERE GONNA KEEP THE CURRENT, THE EXISTING AD SPEND FOR SAN FRANCISCO AND DALLAS, THE SAME AS THEN THE ORIGINAL STRATEGY BECAUSE THEY WERE PERFORMING WELL.

UM, AND THEN SPEND AN EXTRA 50 K IN, UM, THREE K IN PAID SEARCH, 20,000 IN META ADS, 20,000 IN THE ATTRIBUTION.

UM, BOTH WEB AND CTV ADS.

AND THEN, UM, THE NEW THING THAT WE ADDED THAT WE HAVEN'T DONE BEFORE IS A BANNER AD IN PHOENIX AT THE PHOENIX AIRPORT, UM, IN TERMINAL FOUR, WHICH, UM, I KNOW ALTHEA SAW.

DID ANYBODY ELSE SEE? SHE DID.

NICE.

YEAH, I DIDN'T EVEN TELL ALTHEA ACTUALLY THAT IT WAS HAPPENING AND SHE GOT TO SEE IT, UM, WITH FRESH EYES.

YEAH, GOT BACK THE DAY AFTER IT STARTED AND I WAS LIKE, WHAT MY DAUGHTER.

AND I HAD TO LIKE, TAKE A COUPLE LOOPS.

, YOU COULD SEE IT.

SURPRISE.

HAVE THEM YET BECAUSE, UM, THEY COME IN THREE WEEKS AFTER THE DATE THAT YOU WANNA LOOK AT THEM AT.

SO AS FAR AS CAMPAIGN CON PERFORMANCE, UM, LIKE I SAID, I GOT THESE YESTERDAY.

UM, AND WE HAVE GOOD NEWS AND THEN WE HAVE SOME INTERESTING NEWS, UM, TO GO ALONG WITH IT.

SO THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT OUR NON ATTRIBUTION KPIS WERE EXCEPTIONAL.

UM, SO WE ATTRACTED, LIKE ANDREW ALLUDED TO 119,000 PEOPLE TO THE WEBSITE.

THAT WAS A 92% INCREASE IN WEB TRAFFIC YEAR OVER YEAR.

UM, 25,000 USERS CAME TO THE SUSTAINABILITY WEBPAGE SPECIFICALLY.

UH, AND THEN WE EXCEEDED OUR PAID SEARCH AND META BENCHMARKS FROM THE WINTER CAMPAIGN IN ALL OF THE CATEGORIES.

SO THAT WAS GREAT TO SEE.

UM, WHERE IT GETS INTERESTING THOUGH IS THAT, UM, IN THE ATTRIBUTION BASED KPIS, I DON'T

[00:20:01]

SO I WON'T GET THEM UNTIL THE THIRD WEEK OF SEPTEMBER.

WILL I GET A FINAL REPORT FROM THE END OF AUGUST? UM, SO WHAT I'LL BE SHARING IS JUST INITIAL, BUT THEN SECOND, OUR ATTRIBUTION ADVERTISING VENDOR INFORMED US LATE LAST WEEK, THAT IN GENERAL THEY'RE SEEING LESS DEVICES AVAILABLE TO BE, TO BE PICKED UP IN THEIR DESTINATIONS BECAUSE OF DATA PRIVACY GETTING STRICTER AND STRICTER.

UM, AND SO THIS CAME ABOUT BECAUSE ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO, I SENT THEM AN EMAIL BECAUSE I CAN SEE THE DASHBOARD.

I HAVE INSIGHT INTO THAT.

AND I SAID, WE ARE NOT PACING THE SAME WAY THAT WE'VE BEEN PACING.

UM, SHOULD I BE WORRIED? IS THERE A DATA ANOMALY? WHAT'S HAPPENING? UM, AND SO THEY FINALLY GOT BACK TO US, UM, LAST WEDNESDAY, UM, UH, AND SHARED THAT, UM, THEY ARE JUST NOT SEEING THE SAME DEVICE PICKUP EVEN FROM SIX MONTHS AGO.

AND THEY'RE ATTRIBUTING THAT TO, UM, EITHER DATA PRIVACY OR, UM, USERS JUST GETTING SMARTER TO NOT SHARING NO LOCATIONS, WHICH IS WHAT I DO.

, I NEVER SHARE MY LOCATION.

UM, SO, UM, THIS IS GONNA RE, UM, AFFECT OUR RETURN ON AD SPEND.

UH, SO IT'S JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT IN THE FUTURE.

UM, IT'LL GET REALLY INTERESTING LIKE, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO COMPARE LAST SUMMER'S CAMPAIGN TO THIS SUMMER'S CAMPAIGN.

AND, YOU KNOW, IF ALL OF A SUDDEN WE'VE MOVED THE GOALPOSTS ON, ON HOW THINGS WERE MEASURED, THEN YOU CAN'T REALLY COMPARE, UM, YEAR OVER YEAR.

SO, UM, IT'S SOMETHING THAT, THAT WE'RE LOOKING INTO.

UM, AND OKAY, I'LL, I HAVE SOMETHING ELSE TO SAY ABOUT THAT, BUT I'LL COVER THAT A LITTLE BIT LATER.

UM, SO HERE'S OUR META CAMPAIGN RESULTS.

UM, AND SO WHILE, UM, IMPRESSIONS AND VIDEO VIEWS WERE DOWN, THE CLICK THROUGH RATE WAS ACTUALLY REALLY GOOD.

SO THAT SHOWS ME THAT WE HAVE A REALLY HIGH QUALITY PERSON THAT WE WERE ENGAGING WITH.

UM, THEN HERE'S INITIAL ROI.

SO I USUALLY SHOW YOU GUYS ROAS.

I'M NOT GONNA SHOW YOU THAT TODAY.

I, 'CAUSE I'M NOT COMFORTABLE SHARING THAT UNTIL I GET THE FINAL RESULTS IN.

BUT THIS IS JUST TO SHOW YOU WHAT PER WHAT MARKETS PERFORM THE BEST FOR US, AT LEAST, THIS IS THROUGH EIGHT 10.

UM, SO WE STILL WOULD'VE HAD, UH, OVER TWO AND A HALF WEEKS OF THE CAMPAIGN LEFT.

UM, BUT YOU CAN SEE THAT PHOENIX, TUCSON, VEGAS, LA, SAN DIEGO, CHICAGO, AND DENVER ARE OUR HIGHEST RETURNING MARKETS WITH CHICAGO AS OUR BEST FLIGHT MARKET, DESPITE THE SPEND BEING TURNED OFF THERE.

SO I'LL BE REALLY INTERESTED, INTERESTED TO SEE WHAT THE LAST THREE MONTHS, OR THREE, THREE MONTHS, THREE WEEKS OF AUGUST DUE AND TO SEE IF CHICAGO STILL STAYS UP THERE EVEN THOUGH WE TURN THE SPEND OFF OR NOT.

UM, BUT THAT WAS EVEN DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I PUT IN THE STAFF REPORT, WHICH I WROTE LAST THURSDAY.

UM, WHICH I BELIEVE IN THE STAFF REPORT I SAID THAT DALLAS WAS THE BEST FLIGHT MARKET.

HERE'S SOME, UM, TAKEAWAYS.

SO YEAH, THIS IS WHY I GET A LITTLE BIT TENTATIVE TO REPORT ANY RESULTS, UM, BEFORE I GET THE FINALS IN.

BUT I STILL THOUGHT IT WAS WORTH, UM, SHARING AT LEAST THROUGH EIGHT 10.

SO HERE'S OUR PAID SEARCH RESULTS.

UM, WE HAD A GREAT CLICK THROUGH RATE OF 5.75%.

SO THIS WAS UP FROM THE WINTER AND IS NOW ABOVE THE BENCHMARK.

UM, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER THIS, BUT THIS WAS A GOAL.

UM, IT WAS A KEY TAKEAWAY FROM THE WINTER CAMPAIGN WAS THAT I WAS GONNA TRY AND GET THAT CLICK THROUGH RATE UP, UM, BY KIND OF REFINING THOSE SEARCH TERMS. UM, SO I'M GLAD TO SEE THAT.

UM, WE DID SUCCEED IN THAT THIS TIME.

HERE'S OUR AIRPORT BANNER THAT WE TALKED ABOUT.

UM, IT RECEIVED 105,734 PLAYS WITH, UM, 4.2 MILLION IMPRESSIONS.

THAT WAS JUST, UM, UH, UM, AN APPROXIMATION, UM, FROM THE AIRPORT, BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY THINK, UM, THE AMOUNT OF EYES THAT WERE ON IT.

SO, UM, AS A REMINDER, THIS WAS PURELY JUST BRAND AWARENESS AND, UM, TRYING TO DRIVE SEDONA VISITATION RIGHT THEN AND THERE AND THEN HOPEFULLY AGAIN IN THE FUTURE, UM, JUST TO PUT IT ON PEOPLE'S RADAR.

SO, UM, THERE IS NO ATTRIBUTION THAT I CAN, UM, TRACK FROM THIS, BUT, UH, STILL THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD, UM, GOOD BRAND AWARENESS TOOL FOR US TO TRY OUT.

AND, UM, I GUESS I CAN'T SAY FOR VISITORS, BUT I HAD NEARLY EVERY PERSON THAT I KNEW WHO FLEW IN DID SAY SOMETHING TO ME ABOUT IT, AND I DID NOT SAY SOMETHING TO THEM AHEAD OF TIME.

THEY ALL SAID, DID YOU KNOW ABOUT THE BANNER ? I DID TELL ME, YES.

UM, SO I DON'T KNOW IN MY, UH, IN MY SMALL CIRCLE, IT WAS A SUCCESS IN MY MIND.

OKAY, SO

[00:25:01]

UH, REDEFINED FAMILY TIME IS A CONSISTENT TOP PERFORMER WE KEEP SEEING THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

UM, SO JUST SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND WITH OUR VISUALS AND, AND WHAT WE'RE CREATING.

UM, CHICAGO, AT LEAST FOR NOW, WAS THE BEST FLIGHT MARKET.

UM, BIG DATA CHANGES ARE GOING TO AFFECT OUR CAMPAIGN CAMPAIGNS GOING FORWARD.

UM, NON ATTRIBUTION BASED ADS PERFORM VERY WELL.

UM, WE IMPROVED OUR PAGE SEARCH STRATEGY THIS TIME AROUND, LIKE I MENTIONED.

AND THEN, UM, SOMETHING KIND OF INTERESTING IS JUST THAT GETTING RESULTS IN FROM THE PREVIOUS CAMPAIGN BEFORE WE DECIDE ON THE DETAILS OF THE NEXT CAMPAIGN IS GONNA BE A KNOWN CHALLENGE GOING FORWARD, LIKE WE'RE SEEING NOW.

UM, PRIOR TO GETTING THE NEWS ON THURSDAY ABOUT THE ATTRIBUTION, I WAS PLANNING TO GO TO COUNCIL, UM, SEPTEMBER 23RD, UH, WHICH WOULD NOT HAVE GIVEN, UM, AND IT STILL WON'T GIVE ANYBODY TIME TO, UM, SEE THE FULL RESULTS, MAKE A RECOMMENDATION AND HAVE ME INCLUDE THAT IN THE STAFF REPORT TO COUNCIL.

SO JUST SOMETHING FOR US TO THINK ABOUT THAT AS, I GUESS, UM, YOU KNOW, THE POSITIVES OF LAUNCHING CAMPAIGNS EARLIER IS THAT IT GIVES, UM, A, A, A BETTER CHANCE FOR THOSE LONGER FLIGHT MARKETS TO SEE THE ADVERTISING AND COME WHEN WE WANT THEM TO.

UM, THE DOWNSIDE IS THAT I WON'T HAVE THE RESULTS FROM THE LAST CAMPAIGN TO INFORM DECISIONS OF THE NEXT CAMPAIGN.

UM, AT THIS POINT THOUGH, IT'S GOOD THAT WE NOW HAVE, UM, WHAT IS IT TWO YEARS NOW OF, UM, CAMPAIGN DATA TO GO OFF OF AS WELL.

SO, QUICK QUESTION.

UM, WHAT'S THE DELAY YOU THINK IT'S GONNA TAKE FROM WHEN YOU LAUNCH A OUT OF MARKET CAMPAIGN TO WHEN YOU THINK YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THE DATA TO KNOW ITS EFFECTIVENESS? WHAT WAS THE QUESTION? BECAUSE YOU, BECAUSE YOU BASICALLY SAID THREE WEEKS IS GONNA TAKE A TIME TO START TO GET SOME DATA.

I MEAN, THERE'S GONNA BE LONGER TIME AFTER THE THREE WEEKS PROBABLY TO GET ENOUGH DATA AND TO SAY IT'S SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH TO MAKE A DECISION FROM.

SO IS THAT LIKE THREE WEEKS, FOUR WEEKS, SIX WEEKS, TWO MONTHS, FOUR MONTHS? DO YOU HAVE A YEAH, I SHOULD HAVE REPHRASED THAT.

WE WILL HAVE IT.

YOU ALL WON'T HAVE IT IS THE, BUT AS FAR AS YOU MAKING DECISIONS ON ADJUSTING FUTURE CAMPAIGNS, WE CAN DO THOSE PERIOD OF TIME THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE THAT YEAH.

THREE WEEKS.

FROM WHEN I CAN HAVE THOSE FINAL RESULTS, OF COURSE IT TAKES US TWO AND A HALF WEEKS TO CREATE ADS.

UM, SO THERE'S KIND OF A BUILT-IN, BUILT-IN DELAY THERE.

UNLESS I WANNA DRIVE JAMES REALLY NUTS, BUT OKAY.

I THINK THREE OF TWO.

AND YEAH, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT WE'VE HAD WITH DOING THESE LIKE ANALYSIS DURING THE CAMPAIGN IS THAT WE HAVEN'T STAGGERED OUR FLIGHT MARKET TO OUR DRIVE MARKET.

SO WE'RE SORT OF COMPARING THOSE AT THE SAME TIME.

OH, OKAY.

WHICH IS WHY WE KEEP WANTING TO PUSH THE FLIGHT MARKET UP A LITTLE BIT SO WE HAVE THAT DATA AHEAD OF TIME.

SO WE'RE LOOKING AT MORE APPLES TO APPLES.

WE HAVE THE SAME QUESTION ABOUT THE LUXURY MARKET, WHICH IS THIS LONGER LEAD TIME BUILT IN AS WELL.

I THINK SOMEONE MADE THE LAST COMMENT LAST YEAH.

THING, I WASN'T HERE, BUT IT'S THE SAME QUESTION AS YOU, THERE'S A CERTAIN LEAD TIME YOU HAVE TO HAVE, AND IF SO, THAT'S GONNA GET IN THE WAY OF YOU MAKING MODIFICATIONS IN THOSE MARKETS GOING FORWARD.

AND I, MY BUSINESS TAKES ABOUT TWO TO THREE MONTHS MM-HMM .

WHEN I MAKE A CHANGE IN A CAMPAIGN TO GET ENOUGH INFORMATION TO SAY, DID IT WORK? HOW DID IT WORK TO MAKE ANOTHER CHANGE MM-HMM .

AND IT'S A VERY SLOW BOIL MM-HMM .

IN SOME CASES.

AND IF YOU'RE STARTING A SUMMER CAMPAIGN IN JUNE SUMMER'S OVER BY THE TIME IT'S ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, SO HOW YOU STAGGER THAT'S IN THE LEAD TIME TO GET THE DATA IS KIND OF THE GENERIC QUESTION.

IT'S BEEN A, I MEAN, OUR CAMPAIGNS ARE RUNNING THREE TO FOUR MONTHS AT MOST.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN MAKING ADJUSTMENTS AT THE HALFWAY POINT OF COURSE YOU HAVE, WHICH IS ABOUT AS SOON AS WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO.

UM, BUT AGAIN, IF WE CAN GET TO WHERE THE FLIGHT MARKETS ARE GIVEN A, A LONGER RUNWAY UNINTENDED I YES.

THEN THE, THEN THE DRIVE MARKET, THEN WE'RE, I THINK, WE'LL I THINK THAT WE'LL BE ABLE TO MAKE MORE INFORMED DECISIONS PIECE.

I JUST WANTED TO SEE HOW YOU WERE MM-HMM .

SEEING THAT STAGGERING.

THANK YOU.

LIKE THE OUTDOORS, LIKE HOTEL TIME, THERE'S NO LIKE, YEAH.

ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE, OR ANY OTHER COMMENTS ABOUT THE SUMMER CAMPAIGN RESULTS? AT LEAST WHAT I'VE BEEN ABLE TO BRING TO YOU TODAY? SO DO YOU, DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF WHY REDEFINED FAMILY TIME WAS SUCH A HIT? I, I DON'T KNOW.

UM, IT'S THE SAME IMAGE THAT WE'VE BEEN USING, WHICH IS, UM, VERY COMPELLING.

IT'S THE SAME ONE.

UM, THE PARK RANGER, THE WHITE TEETH.

SHE'S GOT REALLY WHITE TEETH, UM, , UH, THO THO THOSE SETS OF IMAGES ALWAYS DO REALLY WELL.

UM, BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO WHY, I MEAN, ASIDE FROM IT BEING AN ADORABLE PHOTO, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK OF SEDONA AS SUPER MM-HMM .

CHILD FRIENDLY, RIGHT? I MEAN, WE'RE NOT UNFRIENDLY, BUT WE'RE, THERE'S NOT THAT MUCH TO DO.

YOU HAVE TO FIND THINGS TO DO.

SO YEAH.

YOU EITHER HAVE TO

[00:30:01]

THERE'S NO, UH, KIDS MUSEUM AND, YOU KNOW, THAT SORTS OF THING.

THEY DO HAVE A CHILDREN'S SECTION AT THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY MUSEUM.

THEY CAN EVEN PUT ON HATS AND SIT IN FRONT OF, OUT OF AFRICA.

YEAH, THAT'S TRUE.

THE SPLASH PAD.

I DON'T KNOW, I, I'VE ALWAYS, I REMEMBER BEING PLEASANTLY SURPRISED WHEN THAT WAS THE PRIMARY ONE AS YOU KNOW, ONE, AND NOW LINDSAY TWO HAS ALSO SAID, YOU KNOW, MORE FAMILY STUFF, BUT THE PUT SOME OF THOSE THINGS OUT IN MARKETING, I DON'T KNOW, UM, YOU KNOW, IF THAT'S A DESIRABLE THING, BUT YEAH, IT'S, IT'S A QUESTION I'VE BEEN WANTING TO KNOW AND, AND IT'S FASCINATING THAT IT'S PLAYING THE SAME.

AND IS IT THE FACT THAT THOSE SAME IMAGES HAVE BEEN OUT THERE LONGER? DOES THAT HAVE ANY PLAY INTO IT? THE FACT THAT THOSE IMAGES WERE OUT? I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T, I'LL ASK THOUGH.

I DON'T THINK SO.

I THINK IT MIGHT BE THE WORD PLAY AS WELL, BECAUSE I MEAN, THAT'S WHY I LIKE THE CAMPAIGN.

I, I LIKE REDEFINE NIGHTLIFE.

'CAUSE IT, IT REALLY STIMULATES AN IMAGINATION.

SO, UM, I'M JUST GLAD IT'S WORKING.

I'M WONDERING TOO IF MAYBE IT'S UNEXPECTED.

SO PEOPLE WHO HAVE HEARD ABOUT SEDONA DID NOT THINK MAYBE THAT IT WAS VERY FAMILY FRIENDLY AT ALL, AND SO THEREFORE ARE SURPRISED TO SEE THAT.

AND THEN THEREFORE MORE LIKELY TO CLICK AND THEN TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHY DO WE HAVE, DO WE HAVE DEMOGRAPHICS ON FAMILY VISITOR CONSTITUTION OF VISITORS, COUPLES VERSUS, I MEAN, MAYBE THERE'S JUST A GROWING DEMOGRAPHIC OF PEOPLE WHO TRAVEL WITH SMALL CHILDREN NOW.

THE ONLY THING WE HAVE IS, UM, UH, THE INTERCEPT SURVEY THAT DVA DID INITIALLY, IN WHICH THEY WOULD'VE INDICATED THAT, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY, UM, BENCHMARKING AFTER THAT TO GO OFF OF.

BUT I THINK THE, THE RISE IN AIRBNB, UM, KIND OF FITS WITH FAMILIES MM-HMM .

SO, YOU KNOW, MAKES SENSE.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IF THEY WANT HOTEL TIME, BUT IF THEY HAVE A HOUSE WITH A POOL AND YOU KNOW, A GAME ROOM AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THEN IT DOES MAKE SEDONA MORE FAMILY FRIENDLY.

THE WINTER CAMPAIGN STRATEGY, KNOWING THAT, UM, IT WOULD BE REALLY NICE IF WE HAD ALL OF THE DATA IN FROM THE SUMMER CAMPAIGN.

NOW I'M GONNA GO, YOU GOTTA GO? YES.

OKAY, NOW I'M GONNA GO INTO

[5.c. Winter 2025/2026 destination marketing campaign update]

CAN I ASK A QUICK QUESTION BEFORE YOU GO ON? SO, WITH THIS POTENTIAL CHANGE IN THE ATTRIBUTION BASED MARKETING AND, UM, YOU KNOW, WE HAD SORT OF TALKED HOW YEAR OVER YEAR AS WE MOVE FORWARD IS HOW YOU'LL LOOK TO DETERMINE, YOU KNOW, WHAT TO RECOMMEND TO COUNCIL OR, UH, IN TERMS OF THE CAMPAIGNS MOVING FORWARD.

BUT IT WILL BE MORE DIFFICULT TO DO THAT EVEN JUST OVER THE PAST TWO AND NOW INTO THE THIRD YEAR WITH THOSE CHANGES.

WHAT ARE YOUR INITIAL THOUGHTS ON THAT? I THINK, UM, THIS IS A DYNAMIC MARKET THAT I'M NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO, I, I KEPT THINKING OF IT, YOU KNOW, AS I'M TRYING TO GO TO BED AT NIGHT, I'M LIKE, IT WAS A GOOD 18 MONTHS.

YOU KNOW, WE IT WAS REALLY NICE FOR 18 MONTHS TO GET THIS REALLY GREAT SATISFACTION OF KNOWING ONE TO ONE, THIS PERSON SAW THE AD, THEY CAME IN MARKET.

I'M, WE'RE STILL GOING TO GET THAT.

IT'S JUST THAT THE AMOUNT OF DEVICES THAT, THAT A COMPANY CAN CAPTURE NOW IS JUST SO MUCH LESS.

SO, UM, WE ARE IN CONVERSATION WITH, UM, WE'RE GONNA DO SEVERAL THINGS.

SO FIRST WE'RE IN CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR CURRENT VENDOR TO UNDERSTAND, UM, I'VE EVEN ASKED THEM, CAN YOU GIVE ME THE DEVICE CAPTURE FROM THE WINTER CAMPAIGN AND CAN YOU GIVE IT FROM THE SUMMER CAMPAIGN SO I CAN HAVE A HARD NUMBER OF, WE WERE ABLE TO CAPTURE 15%, I'M MAKING THIS UP, 15% OF DEVICES IN THE, IN THE WINTER AND IN THE SUMMER WE WERE ONLY ABLE TO CAPTURE SEVEN.

SO I CAN ACTUALLY KIND OF CONCEPTUALIZE THAT A LITTLE BIT BETTER.

UM, AND THEN, AND THEN FROM THERE I'M GOING TO UNDERSTAND IS THERE ANY VALUE? THEY'VE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN BUILD A MODEL, UM, WHERE THEY CAN, UM, KIND OF DO SOME PREDICTIVE ANALYSIS.

IF WE GOT THIS AMOUNT OF DEVICES, THEN WE'RE GONNA PREDICT THAT THIS MANY PEOPLE SAW IT, AND IT'S NOT THAT ONE-TO-ONE ANYMORE.

I'M GONNA TRY AND UNDERSTAND IF THERE'S ANY VALUE IN THAT.

UM, IF COUNCIL CARES ABOUT THAT OR IF IT JUST FEELS TOO UNCERTAIN FOR THEM.

THIS CAMPAIGN AND GO TO ALL THE COMPANIES THAT ARE IN THIS SPACE, UM, TELL THEM WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR, WHICH IS, UM, I WANNA BE ABLE TO CONVEY TO YOU ALL TO RESIDENTS AND TO CITY COUNCIL, UM, WHAT THE RETURN ON INVESTMENT WAS AND WHAT THE RETURN ON AD SPEND WAS.

UM, AND THEN THE THIRD THING WE WANNA DO IS WE'RE GOING TO ACTUALLY SHOP AROUND.

UM, THAT IF, IF WE ALL LIKE, UM, THIS IDEA, THE THOUGHT WAS TO SHOP AROUND, UM, THE ATTRIBUTION BASED COMPONENT OF

[00:35:01]

AND IDEALLY I'D LOVE TO BE ABLE TO, UM, UH, CONVEY IF WE MADE BACK IN SALES AND BED TAX, THE TAX DOLLARS THAT WE SPENT ON THE CAMPAIGN.

AND THEN SEE OF ALL THE COMPANIES IN THIS SPACE, UM, WHAT KIND, WHAT THINGS THEY CAN OFFER ME IF THEY'RE ALL KIND OF FACING THE SAME CHALLENGES AND ISSUES.

IF DATA FFI IS STILL THE BEST VENDOR FOR THAT, BUT AT LEAST, UM, I'LL FEEL GOOD ABOUT DOING THE DUE DILIGENCE OF SHOPPING AROUND, SHOPPING IT AROUND TO, TO ALL THE PLAYERS IN THE MARKET, UM, AND MAKE AN EDUCATED DECISION FROM THAT, KNOWING THAT I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA GET BACK TO THOSE TIMES OF, UM, GETTING AS MANY DEVICES AS I WOULD, AS I WOULD HOPE.

AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THEN THAT WILL BE NECESSARY TO CONVINCE COUNCIL OF THE FACT THAT THE DATA MM-HMM .

THEY WANTED, WANTED, GOT A LOT OF GREAT DATA AND NOW THEY'LL HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, KIND OF EXTRAPOLATE FROM WHAT WAS WORKING.

SEE IF IT'S CONNECTED TO .

AND YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN TRYING TO THINK AS WELL, LIKE, UM, WHAT PREMIUM ARE WE PAYING FOR ATTRIBUTION BASED DATA? UM, AND SO THE ADS ARE THE SAME PRICE THERE.

IT'S NOT AN MORE EXPENSIVE AD.

IT'S, UM, THE PLATFORM THAT YOU GET, UM, BEHIND, UM, WHICH IS NOT THAT EXPENSIVE IN GENERAL.

AND I DO STILL THINK IT HOLDS VALUE.

I MEAN, ANDREW AND I GO IN THERE A LOT.

IT'S A BIT LIKE SYMPHONY WHERE WE PUT TOGETHER OUR DATA AND WE HAVE ANOTHER PLATFORM FOR DATA PHI, UM, THAT SHOWS US VISITATION, UM, SHOWS US WHERE PEOPLE ARE GOING, WHAT SITES THEY'RE HITTING, UM, HOW LONG THEY'RE STAYING.

UM, AND, UM, THEY, WE LIKE THEIR MODEL FOR THIS TYPE OF ADVERTISING BECAUSE IT WAS ONE-TO-ONE.

IT WAS NOT AN EXTRAPOLATION.

LIKE, UM, SOME OF OUR SOURCES IN SYMPHONY HAVE BEEN, SO THERE'S A LOT TO EXPLORE.

UM, AND I THINK IT WAS INEVITABLE, UM, IN THIS CASE.

UM, I WAS BUMMED THAT IT HAPPENED MID-CAMPAIGN THAT I, THAT I DIDN'T, THAT I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT SOONER.

UM, BUT AS THEY EXPLAINED TO US, WE ARE UNUSUAL IN THAT MOST OF THEIR DESTINATIONS ARE ADVERTISING YEAR ROUND.

UM, THEY'RE NOT DOING THESE THREE, FOUR MONTH TURN ON TURNOFFS, TURN ON TURNOFFS.

UM, SO WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE A LITTLE BIT UNIQUE IN THAT WAY.

UM, SO WE MAY HAVE FOUND, WHAT I'M SAYING IS WE MAY HAVE FOUND OUT SOONER THAN ANOTHER DESTINATION WOULD'VE.

THANK YOU.

SO WHAT I'M THINKING IS, UM, 159,100 FROM OCTOBER 15TH TO FEBRUARY 15TH.

UM, AS I MENTIONED IN THE AGENDA, BILL, I WAS HOPING FOR OCTOBER 1ST FOR THOSE FLIGHT MARKETS, BUT IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

I HAD TO BUMP BACK THE COUNCIL MEETING TO OCTOBER 14TH.

THAT'S WHAT YOU PUT IN THE REPORT.

LA TUCSON, MINNEAPOLIS, VEGAS, SAN DIEGO, CHICAGO, SEATTLE, DENVER, NEW YORK, AND SAN FRANCISCO.

THEN IT'S RIGHT .

UM, UH, SO THAT'S WHY WE HAVE OCTOBER 15TH.

UM, IT'LL STILL EVEN, IT MIGHT BE STAGGERED PAST THAT EVEN.

WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET SOME, SOME ADS IN, UM, LIKE META GOES IN AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, AND THEN SOME OF THE OTHER ADS TRICKLE IN A FEW DAYS LATER, UM, JUST WITH HOW, UH, THE LEAD UP TIME THERE.

BUT REGARDLESS, OCTOBER 15TH TO FEBRUARY 15TH, THAT'S GONNA STILL BE 41 DAYS SOONER THAN THE WINTER 2024 CAMPAIGN.

SO THAT'S NICE.

UM, BUT WE DO PAID SEARCH, UM, FOR 14,100 META ADS OUT OF MARKET, 28,000 META ADS IN MARKET, 13,000 ATTRIBUTION WEB ADS FOR OUT OF MARKET, 68,000 AND ATTRIBUTION.

CTV HAD CTV ADS FOR OUT OF MARKET 36,000.

I ASKED ABOUT, UM, IT WAS INTERESTING THAT THE CTV ADS ARE FOR OUT OF MARKET.

UM, UM, AND THEY SAID THAT IT'S REALLY ABOUT, UM, BUILDING THAT BRAND AWARENESS TO CONTINUE TO BUILD THE BRAND A AWARENESS, ESPECIALLY IN THOSE FLIGHT MARKETS.

UM, AS A REMINDER, IN MARKET META TARGETING INCLUDES THE 25 MILE RADIUS AROUND SEDONA AND THE PHOENIX AREA.

UM, AND THEN THE OUT OF MARKET CITIES, THESE ARE GONNA BE THE SAME FROM, UM, THE LAST WINNERS CAMPAIGN.

WE SAW POSITIVE RETURN ON INVESTMENT, UM, IN ALL OF THESE CITIES.

SOME OBVIOUSLY MUCH BETTER THAN OTHERS, BUT I STILL THOUGHT, UM, MAYBE IT'S JUST THE, THE LOYALTY IN MY PERSONALITY.

BUT I DID WANT TO CONTINUE INVESTING IN PLACES LIKE SAN FRANCISCO AND NEW YORK, UM, AND SEE IF WE CAN'T MOVE THE NEEDLE THERE MORE.

UM, SO PHOENIX,

[00:40:01]

SO THE CAMPAIGN CONCEPT, UM, THIS IS WHAT I MENTIONED THE OTHER DAY, UM, IN OUR MEETING LAST MONTH, BUT IT'S TO, UM, MAYBE PICK UP SOME OF THOSE TRAVELERS THAT AREN'T GONNA DO THEIR EUROPEAN VACATION THIS YEAR.

UM, AND SO TO KIND OF PLAY OFF THE REDEFINE THEME, UM, BUT MORE WITH THAT LENS OF HOW DO I COMPETE WITH A, UM, SWITZERLAND, A THAILAND, YOU KNOW, THESE KIND OF, UM, REALLY BIG TRIPS THAT PEOPLE MIGHT NOT BE DOING THIS YEAR.

SO, UM, WE'RE NOT COMMITTED TO THESE, BUT WE HAD A INITIAL BRAINSTORM SESSION.

UM, AND WE'RE GONNA MEET WITH DVA NEXT THURSDAY THE 11TH.

UM, AND WE'LL HONE IN, HONE IN ON THESE.

UM, WE ALSO HAVE A PHOTOGRAPHER COMING OUT IN A COUPLE WEEKS WHO WILL HELP US EXECUTE SOME OF THESE.

UM, BUT OBVIOUSLY THE REDEFINED WINTER SANCTUARY MASTERPIECE, PASSPORT BUCKET LIST, AWE ESCAPE THE JOURNEY SILENCE AND WHAT MATTERS.

SO WITH THAT, UM, THE, YOU'VE SEEN ALL OF THESE, I DON'T NEED TO GO OVER THESE, BUT JUST SO THAT, YOU KNOW, UM, SAME, SAME IDEA AS THE SUMMER.

SAME, SAME.

THERE'S OUR, THERE'S OUR WINNER .

UM, THE TARGET AUDIENCE IS THE SAME AS WE'VE MENTIONED BEFORE, UM, IN A PREVIOUS MEETING.

UH, SO I WAS, UM, ADMITTEDLY, UM, TO NONCHALANT WITH THE NUMBER THAT I HAD.

I HAD PUT A HUNDRED THOUSAND 'CAUSE I LOOKED AT THOSE NUMBERS AND SAID, EH, LET'S JUST PUT ABOUT A HUNDRED THOUSAND.

WELL, THAT WASN'T ACTUALLY TRUE.

I SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT.

SO I HAVE NOW SPELLED OUT, UM, EXACTLY THE HOUSEHOLD INCOME, UM, THAT WE'RE GOING FOR WITH EACH OF THESE PEOPLE.

AND YOU CAN SEE THAT ESPECIALLY THAT CULTURAL EXPLORER IS PUSHING THAT 200, UM, 200,000 MARK.

SO NOW I'D LIKE TO HAVE ANY DISCUSSION, UM, DO YOU SUPPORT THIS WINTER MARKETING STRATEGY, UM, KNOWING THAT THERE IT IS, IT WILL GO TO CITY COUNCIL ON OCTOBER 14TH? WELL, I WAS IN A MEETING, UM, ABOUT A WEEK, WEEK OR SO AGO, UH, WITH, UH, WENDY LIPMAN, WHO'S MANAGER OF TILL P**I.

AND, UM, SHE WAS QUITE CRITICAL OF OUR MARKETING PROGRAM.

UM, HER STORES ARE HURTING AND YOU KNOW, AND I'VE BEEN TALKING, YOU KNOW, AS I GO TO PLACES, I'M ASKING THEM HOW'S BUSINESS? AND I KEEP HEARING IT SUCKS.

AND, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH SOME REAL PAIN OF, OF BUSINESSES CLOSING, I THINK IN THE COMING YEAR BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE ECONOMIC DATA SHOWS THAT WHAT RETAIL SPEND IS UP BARELY.

AND I DON'T KNOW SPECIFICALLY ABOUT TRAVEL, BUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THE TOP 20% OF INCOME IS UP 3%.

THE BOTTOM 80% IS FLAT.

SO IT'S A, A, A TRUE CASE OF THE HAVES AND THE HAVE NOTS.

AND, UM, SO THAT MEANS WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO HAVE A REALLY TOUGH ENVIRONMENT, YOU KNOW, FOR THE NEXT SIX TO 12 MONTHS.

UM, AND YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE WE ASKED FOR MORE MONEY FOR AUGUST, I'M WONDERING IF WE SHOULDN'T GO IN AND ASK FOR MORE MONEY FOR WINTER BECAUSE WE KNOW OTHER DMO ARE SUFFERING.

VEGAS IS WEIGHED DOWN.

UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S DOOM AND GLOOM IN THE TRAVEL INDUSTRY PRETTY MUCH RIGHT NOW.

SO, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH WE MAY NOT HAVE HARD DATA TO SAY, WELL, BOOKINGS ARE DOWN FOR THE COMING WINTER, UM, I PERSONALLY THINK WE NEED TO BUMP IT UP SIGNIFICANTLY.

AND, UM, I WASN'T ABLE TO GO FIND MY OLD FILE, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN I FIRST GOT INVOLVED IN LOOKING AT, UM, THE TOURISM BUSINESS HERE, UH, WHEN THE CHAMBER WAS STILL RUNNING THINGS, YOU KNOW, THEIR TOTAL BUDGET WAS WHAT, AROUND $3 MILLION I THINK ALL IN.

AND I, I THINK IT'S AROUND 3 MILLION AS I RECALL.

AND OUR CURRENT BUDGET ALL IN IS WHAT, UM, 2 MILLION.

SO THAT'S A DELTA OF A MILLION DOLLARS.

AND WE'RE SPENDING MORE ON MEDIA THAN THEY WERE.

MINUTES TO GET HERE, , THERE'S NOBODY HERE.

SO, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THE BAR IS SET AT 3 MILLION, UM, OUR BUSINESSES ARE HURTING.

EVERYBODY FEELS, I MEAN, GOD, IT TOOK ME EVEN WITH A BAD THUNDERSTORM, IT TOOK ME 15

[00:45:01]

CAN YOU GO BACK A SLIDE? WHAT'S THAT? I WANTED TO GO BACK A LITTLE.

SO, YOU KNOW, I PERSONALLY THINK, YOU KNOW, AS A MARKETING GUY, UH, WE KIND OF SEE THE STORM COMING.

AND FOR US TO WAIT SIX WEEKS AFTER THE DATA STARTS COMING IN TO BE ABLE TO ADJUST SEEMS, UH, LACK OF PRUDENCE, I THINK WE NEED TO GO FORTH AND SAY, HEY, WHAT WE DID LAST WINTER WORKED.

UH, BUSINESS IS HORRIBLE GOING INTO THIS SEASON, ESPECIALLY.

AND, YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT THE, THE ACTUAL TRAFFIC COUNTS ARE FLAT OR DOWN THIS YEAR.

AND WE KNOW IN GENERAL, I MEAN, WE HEARD WHAT, UH, RENEE, YOU WERE SAYING THAT THE ACTUAL SPEND PEOPLE WERE DOING IN, IN SHOPS WAS DOWN.

SO, YOU KNOW, ALL, ALL THE SIGNS ARE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A ROUGH WINTER.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, SHOULDN'T WE BE PROACTIVE AND SAY, LET'S GET IN FRONT OF THIS, THIS THING AND LET'S ASK FOR A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN MONEY TO HELP OFFSET IT.

I MEAN, I THINK IT'S KIND OF OUR OBLIGATION.

WE'RE WE'RE TRYING TO MANAGE TOURISM, NOT HELP THE PEAKS, BUT DEFINITELY HEAP, UH, HELP THE TROUGHS.

AND WE'RE GOING INTO A TROUGH AND I THINK WE NEED TO STEP UP AND SAY, WE NEED TO DO MORE.

CAN I ADD SOMETHING? UM, SO I HAVE BEEN HAVING A CONVERSATION, UM, WITH DVA, UM, AND I'VE ASKED THE QUESTION OF, OKAY, WE'RE GIVING, WE'RE PUTTING, UM, THIS LAST YEAR WE PUT 400,000 INTO ADVERTISING.

UM, AT WHAT POINT DO I SEE A DIMINISHING RETURN MM-HMM .

OF THE MORE MONEY I PUT IN, LIKE, WHEN DO WE HIT THAT POINT? UM, AND HE SENT ME AN, AN INITIAL EMAIL TODAY, AND IT GAVE ME ENOUGH TO GO OFF OF TO HAVE A, A LIGHT CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS.

BUT, UM, IN OUR MEETING NEXT THURSDAY, I PLAN TO COVER THIS, BUT HE'S ESSENTIALLY, UM, HE'S CREATED TWO DIFFERENT MODELS.

AND WHAT HE'S DONE IS HE'S, UM, CALCULATED THE COST PER VISITOR DAY FROM THE LAST THREE SEASONS THAT WE'VE HAD.

UM, AND THEN HE'S, HE'S, HE'S CREATED A LINEAR MODEL AND HE'S CREATED, UH, A MORE CONSERVATIVE MODEL TO TELL ME IF I SPEND A HUNDRED K, 200 K, 300 K, ALL THE WAY UP TO A MILLION, UM, WHEN DO I SEE THAT DIMINISHING RETURN? UM, AND SO, UM, YOU KNOW, IN THE CONSERVATIVE MODEL, HE SAID SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN THE RANGE OF 600 AND $700,000 OF ADVERTISING, WOULD I START TO SEE A DIMINISHING RETURN, UM, IN THE LESS CONSERVATIVE IN THE LINEAR MODEL.

IT'S OBVIOUSLY, IT'S NOT REALLY THERE, UM, NOT EVEN UP TO A MILLION DOLLARS.

BUT REGARDLESS, WHAT I, WHAT I'M TRYING TO CONVEY IS THAT I AM HAVING THIS CONVERSATION IN THE BACKGROUND, UM, SO THAT IF YOU ALL DECIDE THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU WANNA RECOMMEND AS A BODY, I'M ABLE TO, UM, HAVE SOME REAL INFORMATION FOR CITY COUNCIL ON, ON WHAT IT MEANS AND, AND HOW MUCH WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

CAN YOU, UM, MIND ME HOW MUCH WE SPENT LAST WINTER? 400 LAST WINTER? YEAH.

HANG ON.

WELL, SHE'S THE BOB.

WAS, DID WENDY HAVE SPECIFICS ABOUT THE MARKETING OR JUST THE RESULT? YEAH, I WANTED TO ASK THAT SAME THING.

UM, IT WAS AN EMOTIONAL RESPONSE.

UH, SO SHE DIDN'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, SHE'S, WHY ARE YOU SAYING THIS INSTEAD OF THAT? BUT SHE'S FEELING SHE AND HER STORES ARE FEELING INCREDIBLE PAIN.

THAT IS A UNIVERSAL FEELING RIGHT NOW.

YEAH, SURE.

BUT I THINK THAT'S EVERYWHERE.

I MEAN, AND I THINK, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.

I THINK WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THIS OF IT'S ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY, YOU KNOW? MM-HMM .

GOT MARKETS ALL OVER THE PLACE.

THEY'RE ALL, EVERYBODY'S FEELING THE SAME PAIN, BUT EVERYBODY'S DOING THE SAME THING.

THEY'RE GONNA GO OUT AND SPEND A LITTLE EXTRA TO TRY TO GET OH, THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

WE, OUR SHARE OF SPEND WILL START DECLINING AS EVERYBODY ELSE REACT.

I, I TRULY, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.

I THINK IT'S WORTH ASKING FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDS.

AND WHY I WANTED TO BRING THIS BACK UP IS, DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO TARGET A SPECIFIC GROUP UP HERE AGAINST THAT FOR US? YOU KNOW, LIKE, WHO'S GONNA GIVE US THE BIGGEST RETURN ON OUR INVESTMENT GOING FORWARD? 'CAUSE IT IS, IT'S EVERYBODY IN TOWN'S SAYING THE SAME THING.

SO IT'S NOT JUST OCK.

I'M GONNA HAVE TO GO THE CONTRARIAN VIEW HERE.

ZERO, MEANING THAT THE TWO YEARS ARE, OR I GUESS THE TWO YEARS ARE HIGHER THAN THE 10 YEARS INVERTED IT BACKWARDS, IT SHOWS SIX TO NINE MONTHS AFTER IT GOES TO NEGATIVE, YOU HAVE A RECESSION.

AND I UNDERSTAND THE PAIN ASPECTS.

I UNDERSTAND THAT BUSINESS ACROSS THE BOARD, OUR BUSINESSES EVOLVED.

THE SUMMER HAS EXPERIENCED SIMILAR THINGS.

BUT I, I LOOK AT THE MACROECONOMIC TRENDS.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE LOOKED AT HISTORICALLY, AND I USED TO TEACH THIS IN COLLEGE, WAS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 10 YEAR BOND AND THE TWO YEAR BOND.

AN INDICATOR OF THE COST OF CAPITAL FOR PEOPLE.

AND RIGHT NOW, WHEN IT GOES BELOW

[00:50:01]

AND WE ARE NOW AT THAT POINT, THIS QUARTER FOR THAT FROM AN ACRO ECONOMIC PERSPECTIVE.

THE OTHER PIECE I READ A DATA, A PIECE OF DATA IS THE AMOUNT OF CONSUMER CREDIT CURRENTLY IN THE UNITED STATES IS $1.6 TRILLION AND IT'S BEING INCREASED BY 230 MILLION OR WHATEVER A QUARTER.

SO PEOPLE RIGHT NOW ARE FEELING THE PAIN, BUT THEY'RE USING THEIR CREDIT CARDS TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE MACROECONOMICS MM-HMM .

SO THE THREE YEARS AGO TRENDS I WOULD SAY IS NOT RELEVANT BECAUSE THE CURRENT SITUATION IS MUCH DIFFERENT FOR THE CONSUMER.

NOW, THE 80 20 RULE WE TALKED ABOUT THAT THE TOP 20% STILL SEEM TO BE FLUSH AND STILL SEEM TO BE, COULD LEAD TO THE TARGETING QUESTION THAT JOHN BROUGHT UP.

I WOULD AGREE WITH.

I AGREE.

BUT, BUT OVERALL SIMPLY SAYING, LET'S JUST CRANK UP DOUBLE THE SPEND.

YEAH, NO, I DON'T, I I, I THINK YOU, I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA GET THERE.

GET, I MEAN WE'VE GOT A TARGETED VERY SPECIFICALLY, SO, SO I JUST WANT TO SAY WHICH WOULD ACTUALLY MAKE IT EVEN MORE EFFECTIVE, I THINK, AND I WOULD THINK THOSE WHO HAVE PRODUCT BUSINESSES THAT HAVE OVERSEAS MANUFACTURERS OR ALSO HAVE OTHER RISK ASPECTS OF DIFFICULTIES, I'M GONNA SERVICE BUSINESS.

SO I'M NOT GONNA SEE THAT PERSONALLY.

BUT THE ONE PIECE OF ITEM THAT I DID HAVE OVERSEAS THAT GOT CAUGHT UP IN THAT I HAD TO PAY EXTRA $7,000 TO GET IT LANDED BECAUSE OF THE TARIFFS.

SO'S A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE EXPERIENCING THAT SIMILAR THING.

AND I'M NOT, I'M A SERVICE BUSINESS.

I'M NOT A PRODUCT COMPANY.

RIGHT? SO THERE'S A BUNCH OF THINGS HERE THAT WE JUST HAVE TO BE REALLY CAREFUL ABOUT.

BLANKET SPENDS AREN'T GONNA HELP.

TARGETED MAY BE, BUT IF WE BETTER BE TARGETING THE TOP LEVEL LEVELS OF PEOPLE ARE GONNA COME HERE, UM, IF WE'RE GONNA DO THAT AGAIN, I, I JUST WANTED TO SAY, I'M GONNA TAKE THE OTHER SIDE.

'CAUSE WE CAN'T NECESSARILY SAY LET'S OPEN UP THE FLOOD GAZE AND GO FOR IT.

THAT'S GONNA BE DRIVING EZ DOWN.

THIS'S GONNA BE A WASTE OF REALLY THE MONEY STERLING FLUSH.

LET'S BE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN.

WE HAVE LOTS OF MONEY TO SPEND, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S PRUDENT.

I THINK WE NEED TO REALLY BE CAREFUL.

NO, I THINK IT, TO ME IT'S MORE TARGETED.

SO I REALLY BELIEVE, TO ME, THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO BRING THIS SLIDE UP AND SAY, IS THERE A TARGET MARKET WE SHOULD BE GOING AFTER? AND HOUSEHOLD INCOMES THAT GO DO THAT.

BECAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT.

'CAUSE JUST LIKE THEY SAID, YOU GOT THE TOP 20, THE TOP 20%, LET'S FIGURE OUT HOW TO GO AFTER THEM BECAUSE THE BOTTOM 20 ARE NOT GONNA BE COMING.

AND SO I THINK THAT'S, AND THAT'S WHAT DATE TRIPPERS.

BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT, AGAIN, WE'RE TALKING OUT OF LONG TOTALLY.

FLIGHT MARKETS ARE THE TOP 20% TARGET, NOT NECESSARILY PEOPLE COMING UP FROM THE, THE VALLEY.

SO AGAIN, WE DISTINGUISHING NICHING, YOU KNOW MM-HMM .

FAMOUS MARKET OR HOW DO WE NICHE INTO THAT? I THINK WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL.

BUT AGAIN, TARGETING A HUNDRED, I MEAN, MY NUMBER IS 150 AND ABOVE, NOT 110 OR 120 BECAUSE FROM MY BUSINESS, SINCE I'M ALSO A SERVICE, I'M ALSO PRICE DEPENDENT AND ALSO HOUSEHOLD INCOME DEPENDENT TOO ON MY RESULTS.

SO MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE ONE 50 AND ABOVE, AND YOU CAN PICK FROM SOME OF THESE AREAS, BUT START THERE AS, AS YOUR FOCUS.

THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD INCREASE I THINK THE PAYBACK, HOWEVER YOU WANNA MEASURE IT.

WOULD YOU AGREE RANDY? I I WOULD ABSOLUTELY AGREE.

AND I WAS GONNA ASK LAUREN, LIKE, OKAY, SO IF THERE WAS MORE MONEY, WHAT WOULD YOUR ADVICE BE? BECAUSE I THINK IF WE GO TO COUNCIL AND SAY WE'D LIKE MORE MONEY AND IT'S A BLANKET THING AND WE'RE, IT FEELS LIKE WE'RE THROWING, BUT IF I LOVE FIRST YOUR ANALYSIS OF WHERE'S THE POINT OF DIMINISHING RETURNS, BUT WHERE'S OUR HIGHEST RETURN? AND HOW WOULD YOU USE THAT MONEY? 'CAUSE IF YOU GO TO COUNCIL WITH THAT, I THINK IT MAKES IT MORE COMPELLING CASE.

YOU CAN ALMOST SAY LET'S KEEP THE BUDGET THE SAME, BUT TO ONLY PUT THE MONEY IN THE FOCUSED AREAS AS A WAY OF DOING THAT.

'CAUSE YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET THE RETURN ON THE LOWER ENDS THAT'S GONNA GO DOWN.

ANYTHING BELOW, POSTPONE THAT.

IF WE AGREE WITH THE MACROECONOMICS OF, SO TAKE THAT OFF THE BOTTOM.

BUT ANYTHING ABOVE ADD THAT MONEY INTO THAT BUCKET.

SO KEEP THE BUCKET THE SAME, THE SO YOU'RE GONNA GET A HIGHER IMPACT FOR THE MONEY.

YOU'RE, I THINK THAT'S A PRUDENT APPROACH.

I AGREE WITH EVERYBODY'S OPINIONS ON IT.

UM, I THINK THE 150 AND ABOVE IS EVEN LOW.

BUT I, I WOULD AGREE WITH IT.

I MEAN, I'M, I'M MORE LIKE 2, 2 50 PLUS IS WHERE MORE MONEY NEEDS TO GO.

REALLY THAT CULTURAL EXPLORER, THE PEOPLE THAT REALLY HAVE THAT KIND OF INCOME.

THE PEOPLE IN NEW YORK, THE PEOPLE IN SAN FRANCISCO, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN MARKETS, MINNEAPOLIS, UM, I AM NOT OPPOSED TO ASKING FOR MORE MONEY.

I THINK 150,000 IS A RIDICULOUS AMOUNT TO SPEND ON A WINTER CAMPAIGN AS LONG AS IT IS.

SO I WOULD, I WOULD ASK FOR MORE MONEY.

I DON'T AGREE WITH THE BLANKET SPEND AT ALL.

I THINK IT NEEDS TO REALLY BE TARGETED AND WE REALLY NEED TO FOCUS ON THOSE, THOSE AREAS WHERE WE'RE GONNA GET OUR BEST RETURN.

[00:55:05]

ANYBODY ELSE SOUNDS REASONABLE FOR SURE.

I WOULD.

SO HOW WOULD WE, HOW DO WE DETERMINE THE ASK MM-HMM .

THE ADDITIONAL ASK? YEAH.

UM, WHAT, WHERE WOULD YOU PUT THAT TO HAVE THE BIGGEST IMPACT? DO WE BASICALLY SAY, OKAY, UM, DOUBLE IT, YOU KNOW, DO WE JUST, YOU KNOW, IS IT A, YOU KNOW, WE THINK EVERYBODY ELSE, ALL THE OTHER DMO THAT WE'RE FIGHTING AGAINST ARE PROBABLY GONNA INCREASE THEIR SPEND 25% OR WHATEVER.

UM, IF WE WANNA INCREASE OUR SHARE, THAT'S BASE INCREASE IS 25.

AND IF WE REALLY WANT TO GAIN SHARE, SO THEN, YOU KNOW, DO YOU GO 50? DO YOU GO 75? I MEAN, YOU KNOW, HOW, HOW DO WE JUSTIFY A SPECIFIC ASK? CAN YOU, COULD YOU ALL GIVE ME AN UP TO AMOUNT THAT THEN I COULD WORK WITH DVA ON TO COME UP WITH THE STRATEGY OF, IS THE MONEY GONNA BE WORTH IT? CAN WE INVEST IT THE WAY THAT I'M HOPING TO, UM, WITH THAT TOP 20%, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT A LOT OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS THAT I NEED THEM TO HELP US ON.

UM, BUT IF YOU, IF YOU HAD A RECOMMENDATION ON AN UP TO AMOUNT THEN THAT WOULD GIVE ME THE LEEWAY OF COMING UP WITH WHAT THAT NUMBER IS.

CAN WE RECAST AT THE TOP 10% TO START WITH NOT TOP 20? I WOULD LIKE, MIGHT LIKE ALICIA'S POINT OF, OF WHERE THE FLOOR IS ON THE, I WOULD LIKE, UM, A VOTE FROM THE BOARD ON THAT SO THAT I CAN HEAR CLEARLY THAT WE, WE DO HAVE MAJORITY APPROVAL OF THAT.

UM, AND THEN THE SAME WITH THE ASK THE FINANCIAL ASK.

DO WE HAVE ANY INSIGHT AS TO WHAT, UM, SIMILAR OR COMPARABLE DESTINATIONS MAY BE ALSO SPENDING, I MEAN WHEN, I MEAN RIGHT NOW YOU'RE SAYING WE WE'RE SPENDING SLIDE BACK ONE MORE IS WHAT, ONE 50? 1 61 60 ROUGHLY.

1 59.

WHAT IS IT? ONE, NO, 1 63 WAS THE SUMMER.

WHICH IS LESS THAN THE SUMMER.

AND, AND THEN EVEN, YOU KNOW, LESS THAN JUST WHAT IT WAS ORIGINALLY.

AND THEN WE STILL DID 50,000 IN ADDITION.

AND UM, KEEP IN MIND THAT THERE'S, WE CALL IT ALWAYS ON, WE'VE ALWAYS GOT PAID SEARCH.

UM, AND THAT'S NOT PART OF THIS NUMBER.

IT, IT, UM, IT IS FOR THE MONTHS THAT THE CAMPAIGN IS RUNNING.

BUT ALL 12 MONTHS OF THE YEAR WE HAVE PAID SEARCH.

AND I THINK WE HAVE, UM, IN MARKET META ADS FOR THE SUSTAINABILITY MESSAGING.

SO LET ME THROW OUT A A A WAY THAT IN MY PAST WHEN, WHEN I DID MEDIA WEIGHT TESTS, SO YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT, WHAT YOUR MEDIA SPEND SHOULD BE, WHERE, WHERE'S THAT POINT OF DIMINISHING RETURNS AND SO FORTH.

AND SO YOU WOULD PICK, UH, YOU KNOW, HALF DOZEN MARKETS THAT YOU'D SPEND YOUR NORMAL AMOUNT AND THEN YOU'D HAVE ANOTHER HALF A DOZEN MATCH MARKETS.

AND THE MINIMUM INCREMENTAL SPEND WOULD BE 50% MORE.

I CAN TELL YOU WHAT THE CITY OF MESA SPENDS, 'CAUSE I'M ON THAT BOARD.

OH, OKAY.

700, NO, EXCUSE ME.

I MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR ON MARKETING.

UM, AND I'M TRYING TO FIND MY, I KNOW I ASKED JUST MARKETING THE TOTAL BUDGET'S 4 MILLION.

I ASKED PARK CITY AND THEY GAVE ME A NUMBER, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS.

IT WAS A LOT.

IS IT WHAT I REMEMBER, LEMME SEE IF I CAN FIND THAT.

IS THAT GOING UP OR DOWN IN MESA? DO YOU HAVE ANY INSIGHT ON THAT, RANDY? UM, I THINK THAT WAS A GREAT QUESTION.

IT'S REALLY RELEVANT WHEN OTHER MARKETS, WELL OUR BED TAX IS GOING DOWN AND IT'S SQUEEZING OUR BUDGET, BUT IT'S NOT, IT'S STILL IN THE SAME, SO IT'S, THE DECISION HAS BEEN MADE BY THE COUNCIL AND CITY MESA TO HOLD YES.

ALL THE BUDGET LEVELS.

ANY CHANGES IN THE TARGETING LIKE WE WERE DISCUSSING, WE, WE'VE CUT STAFF AND OTHER ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES IN ORDER TO TRY TO HOLD THE MARKETING.

'CAUSE THAT'S OUR MAIN OBJECTIVE.

SO NOT TO DRIVE OUT AN ADJACENT CONVERSATION, BUT LIKE, HAS TOURISM IN MESA, IS IT REPRESENTATIVE OF THAT, OF, OF A SUBSTANTIAL INVESTMENT'S? VERY, VERY DOWN.

WE HAPPEN TO HAVE MESA'S KNOWN FOR A VERY LARGE CANADIAN TOURISM INFLUX.

WOW.

IT'S BEEN TURNED OFF COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND.

WE HAVE DIFFERENT PROGRAMS. MESA WILL ALWAYS SPEND A LOT MORE BECAUSE A LOT OF THE MONEY GOES INTO VERY SPECIFIC THINGS TO BRING GROUPS.

SO VISIT MESA, INVEST IN CONCESSIONS TO BRING GROUPS.

WE'RE NOT A GROUP MARKET, SO YOU'RE NEVER GONNA MATCH THEM.

SO IT IS APPLES AND ORANGES.

AND IT'S A HUGE CITY, SO.

THAT'S THE PERCENTAGE QUESTION.

IT'S, IT'S A POINT, JUST A POINT OF

[01:00:01]

RECORD.

ALL WAS SAYING IS A PERCENTAGE PIECE THERE.

AND IF YOU CAN KIND OF QUASI MATCH A OR SAYING IT GIVES US A, A BASIS FOR, FOR MAKING THE NEXT STEP.

I MEAN, WE'RE SO MUCH BETTER.

NO OFFENSE, I KNOW MESA I THERE, I MEAN A GREAT ART CENTER, BUT IN GENERAL.

YEAH, NO, THERE'S, UM, THEY'RE VERY DIFFERENT.

AND I REMEMBER, I REMEMBER DISCUSSING THIS WHEN I APPLIED THERE WE ARE, ARE THEY WE'RE HEAVY M MARKETING AND LOWER MANAGEMENT? UM, YES.

HERE WE'RE HIGHER MANAGEMENT AND LOWER MARKETING.

UM, I DON'T HAVE A TOP END NUMBER BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT THE EFFICACY OF THE SPEND MM-HMM .

SO I, I WOULD, I WOULD STRUGGLE TO TELL YOU WHAT THAT NUMBER IS.

UM, WITHOUT THAT, UM, UH, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO, I AGREE THAT WE SHOULD HAVE A TARGET.

WE SHOULD RAISE THE TARGET NUMBER THAT I WOULD AGREE WITH.

AND YOU WANNA VOTE ON THAT SO WE CAN DO THAT.

QUICK QUESTION, BOB, IN YOUR DISCUSSION, UH, WAS SHE DECIDING TO RAISE HER OWN BUDGETS FOR MARKETING AT THE TIME OR JUST OH, I, I, I DID.

NOT TRYING TO DEFEND OR, BECAUSE THE CHAMBERS ALWAYS MAKING, IT WASN'T AN APPROPRIATE SETTING TO DO IT, BUT SHE WENT OFF ONTO A COUPLE MINUTE RANT.

SURE.

IT WAS JUST LIKE, I JUST TOOK IT.

AND BECAUSE THE CHAMBER IS ALSO MAKING DECISIONS AS WELL IN TERMS OF BUDGETING FOR MARKETING AS WELL.

AND EVERY BUSINESS IS ALSO MAKING, SO I'M JUST KIND OF THIS KIND OF WAR ONE PIECE OF THE BIGGER PUZZLE.

JUST KIND OF CURIOUS HOW OTHER PEOPLE HAVE COME TO THAT CONCLUSION OF WHAT TO DO NEXT, I GUESS IS WHERE I'M LEADING TO WITH THE QUESTION.

SO, OKAY.

UM, PARK CITY SPENDS 8 MILLION IN MARKETING INCLUDING ADVERTISING, INTERNATIONAL PR AND SALES.

SO WHAT THAT IS APPLES TO APPLES TO US, I'M NOT SURE, BUT REGARDLESS, SUBSTANTIALLY MORE.

I MEAN, CAN I MAKE A RECOMMENDATION? WE SAY WE DOUBLED THE TWO OUT OF MARKET ONES.

THE META AD, THE META ADS AND THE ATTRIBUTION ADS TO TRY TO MOVE IT.

LIKE THAT'S 96,000 MORE.

THAT'S LOGICAL.

JUST TAKE THOSE TWO, THOSE TWO LINE ITEMS, DOUBLE IT, BUT VERY TARGETED BACK TO WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.

BE 150 PLUS MM-HMM .

HOUSEHOLD INCOMES.

UM, AND SO YOU, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE ATTRIBUTION CTV OR THE ATTRIBUTION? WEB ADS? WEB ADS.

WEB ADS.

SO 60.

SO IF YOU TOOK THE 68 AND THE 28, I GET IT COMES UP WITH ABOUT 96 MATH.

GOT IT.

WHAT DOES EVERYBODY ELSE THINK ABOUT THAT? UM, I BUT VERY TARGET, BUT VERY TARGETED.

YEAH, NO, I THINK WE ALL AGREE ON THE TARGETED AND I'M NOT SURE THE CTV ADS WERE VERY INTERESTING.

WE JUST ADDED THAT.

I THINK RECENTLY IT'S MUCH HARDER TO AVOID THOSE THAN IT IS WEB ADS.

SO I, BUT I, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE, YOU KNOW, ANECDOTAL OBSERVATIONS, NOT DATA DRIVEN INFORMATION.

SO I THINK CTV RESULTS YET.

AND THAT'S WHAT'S GONNA COME RIGHT BEFORE.

ALRIGHT.

I, I SAW THAT REAL TIME WHEN I HAD TWO TVS ON THE TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS OF PEOPLE IN TWO DIFFERENT ROOMS. WATCHING THE SAME THING AND GETTING DIFFERENT ADS BASED ON THE, WHOSE PHONE WAS NEAR WHAT TV.

IT WAS QUITE FASCINATING.

INTERESTING.

SO IF WE SAID, WHAT'S, IF WE WERE TO SAY WE RECOMMEND ME THE META ADS 28 DOUBLE AND THAT, AND WE TAKE 68,000 DEPENDING ON WHAT THE RESULTS ARE, WHICH YOU'D GET TODAY BEFORE, WHETHER IT GOES TO THE WEB OR TO CTV, COULD WE LIVE WITH THAT? IT'S, BUT LEAVE IT AT THE 68.

WOULD WE BE OPPOSED TO TAKING ALL THREE OF THE OUTTA MARKET AND SAYING DOUBLE 'EM? SO DOUBLE THE 28, THE 68 AND THE 36.

I HAD THAT MY LIST TOO.

I WAS JUST GONNA SAY THAT'S WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND.

I WOULD SAY GO TO THAT OUTTA MARKET AND DOUBLE ALL THREE OF THEM.

SO THEN WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT ANOTHER, WE'RE LOOKING AT ABOUT ONE 30 ROUGHLY.

'CAUSE WE'RE TARGETING BETTER.

BUT MY, I I'M JUST GONNA INJECT A LITTLE BIT ABOUT MY COMPANY'S BUSINESS AND WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING AND OUR EXPERIENCE AND WHAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH IS LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, BUT WE'VE ACTUALLY REDUCED OUR AD SPEND AND WE'RE GETTING MORE ROW ADS AS A RESULT.

WE'RE NOT DOUBLING IT AND GETTING BETTER.

WE'RE REDUCING IT AND GETTING BETTER.

'CAUSE WE'RE MORE EFFICIENT IN WHAT WE'RE PICKING IN TERMS OF HIGHER, HIGHER INCOME MARKETS.

SO I REALLY DON'T WANT TO NECESSARILY START THROWING SPAGHETTI AGAINST THE WALL HERE.

I'M JUST SAYING THAT FOR MY BUSINESS, I HAVE 43 DIFFERENT GOOGLE AD CAMPAIGNS TARGETING VERY SUBSEGMENTS OF, OF THE COMMUNITIES AROUND NORTH AMERICA.

SO WE'RE ABLE TO DO THAT AND WE'RE ABLE TO MONITOR AND MEASURE THAT, WHICH IS ONE OF MY QUESTIONS IN RESPONSE TO HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE FOR YOU TO MAKE A CHANGE AND HOW DO YOU, HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE FOR YOU TO SEE WHAT'S DONE? SO MY EXPERIENCE IS A LITTLE BIT OPPOSITE.

SO MAYBE THAT'S NOT GENERAL SEDONA, BUT MY EXPERIENCE IN MY COMPANY

[01:05:01]

IS IN FACT LESSENING BUT MORE EFFICIENT GETS US BETTER RESULTS.

AND IT'S REALLY HARD TO PROVE IN TOTAL, TO BE HONEST.

BUT THAT'S OUR EXPERIENCE.

AND THE REASON WHY I'M PUSHING IN MY HEELS JUST A LITTLE BIT HERE ABOUT JUST DOUBLING WITHOUT TARGETING FIRST, TARGET FIRST AND THEN ADD, IT'D BE MY ANSWER.

DON'T DOUBLE THEN AND TARGET.

BUT IF WE TARGET FIRST AND EVERYBODY'S BUSINESS CONTINUES TO ALTER AND THERE'S CONTINUED PUSHBACK ON HOW NOT WELL, BUT IF THE BOTTOM 80 PERCENT'S NOT COMING, YOU'RE WASTING YOUR MONEY THEN.

BUT THAT'S WHY I THINK, BUT I ACTUALLY THINK WHEN I, WHEN WE START THINKING ABOUT THIS, THIS BUDGET HERE THAT WE'RE SEEING IN FRONT OF US, I THINK IT HAS TO BE 100.

WE NEED TO DEFINITELY TARGET, DROP THE BOTTOM SIDE TARGET MORE TOWARDS THE UPPER SIDE.

AND THEN DO YOU PUT SOME MORE ENERGY AGAINST THAT UPPER SIDE AT THE SAME TIME? THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE MY HEAD IS.

I I ACTUALLY THINK THEY'RE, THEY'RE COMING MORE THAN WE THINK.

THEY'RE JUST NOT SPENDING SPENDING ANYTHING.

THAT'S A PROBLEM.

THEY'RE OUR PARKING LOT AT FOCKE.

IT'S FULL.

YOU KNOW, IT'S, I MEAN, CERTAIN DAYS IT'S TOTALLY FULL AND YOU, YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE THAT WANNA PURCHASE WANNA BUY THE LUXURY SHOPPER.

THEY JUST, THEY, THEY CAN'T PARK AND THEY LEAVE.

WE'VE HEARD THAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

AND SO THE TRAFFIC IS AN ISSUE.

IT'S STILL AN ISSUE.

I DON'T WANNA BRING IN MORE, LIKE MORE PEOPLE.

IT'S, IT'S GOTTA BE THE RIGHT PEOPLE.

FOCUS PEOPLE.

AND I'M, I'M WITH YOU.

YOU KNOW, I, I THINK IT SHOULD BE MUCH HIGHER DEMOGRAPHIC THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY TARGETING FOR THIS.

MORE, MORE LIKE THE TWO 50 AND ABOVE AND NO, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT, THAT LOOKED LIKE IT HAD LIKE A LIMIT ON IT.

NO, IT'S WAS THERE WE GO.

TWO 20 AND I DON'T SEE ANYTHING GOING UP AT THAT HIGH EVEN BECAUSE THAT, THAT'S WHO'S SPENDING MONEY IN MY STORES.

SO I DON'T KNOW ABOUT EVERYBODY ELSE.

YOU, YOU'VE GOT DIFFERENT, I MEAN MY STORES, IT, IT DEPENDS, UM, YOU INTO LOCK KOCK, WE DEFINITELY, IT'S A, IT'S A MORE CULTURED, UM, HIGHER HOUSEHOLD INCOME CUSTOMER THAN WHAT WE SEE IN UPTOWN.

YEAH, FOR SURE.

AND THEY DON'T NECESSARILY MAKE IT TO ALL THE PLACES.

UM, BUT IN THE CRYSTAL GALLERIES, WHEN YOU START TO GET INTO THAT WHOLE WELLNESS SEEKER THING, I MEAN THERE'S A LOT OF MONEY IN THE RETREATS AND THE WELLNESS SEEKERS AND UM, THAT SORT OF THING TOO.

SO FOR ME, THE CULTURAL EXPLORER AND THE WELLNESS SEEKER ARE PROBABLY THE BEST RETURN ON OUR AD SPEND AND WHAT WE'VE STARTED TARGETING MORE, UM, SPECIFICALLY WELLNESS.

WE'VE PUT A LOT MORE MONEY INTO OUR CAMPAIGNS JUST BECAUSE WE'RE STILL REALLY GETTING THEM OFF THE GROUND AND WE JUST DID A WHOLE WEBSITE REDO.

AND SO WE HAVE TO, UM, BUT I AGREE WITH IT AT LEAST 200,000 PLUS.

UM, BUT DEFINITELY UP INTO THAT TWO 50 PLUS FOR CERTAIN CATEGORIES MM-HMM .

AND AS FAR AS THE AMOUNT OF MONEY TO SPEND, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM ASKING FOR DOUBLE WHAT WE HAVE NOW.

UM, BUT I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO GO ABOVE THAT UNTIL WE HAVE MORE INFORMATION.

UM, AND YOU HAVE MORE TO WORK WITH AND YOU GET THE QUESTIONS ANSWERED BY DVA REGARDING, AT WHAT POINT DOES IT START TILL YOU'RE NOT GETTING YOUR RETURN ON INVESTMENT.

I LOVE, I WISH WE COULD ALL DO WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND SPEND LESS AND TARGET WAY BETTER AND HAVE BETTER RESULTS.

I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE FANTASTIC.

BUT I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE AT THAT POINT YET THAT WE HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION.

WE'VE GOT A FINE TOOTH COMB IS ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING IT.

'CAUSE WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 10 YEARS, SO.

BUT NOT MORE TRAFFIC IS SUPER IMPORTANT BECAUSE THERE'S STILL, IN TERMS OF COMMUNITY, I MEAN MAYBE, CERTAINLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT RETAIL IS TRUE, BUT IN TERMS OF COMMUNITY, PEOPLE ARE STILL NOT SUPER THRILLED OH, NO.

MY EXPERIENCE MAY NOT BE GENERALLY THE SAME ACROSS, WHICH IS MY, MY UNDERSTANDING, BUT I'M JUST SHARING WITH, WITH HOW WE'RE TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, OPTIMIZE AND YOU KNOW, IF THAT'S OF HELP HERE, GREAT.

IF NOT, OKAY.

WELL, I THINK YOU'RE SAYING THE RIGHT THINGS.

WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT OPTIMIZING.

I DO THINK WE NEED TO SPEND MORE.

I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S EASIER.

I CAN FOCUS, YOU KNOW, A MARKETING CAMPAIGN FOR A SPECIFIC PROPERTY FOR SPECIFIC THINGS.

THAT'S A LOT SIMPLER.

WE'RE TRYING TO DRAW SPENDING VISITORS INTO THIS MARKET.

THAT'S A MUCH BROADER NET.

SO I DON'T THINK WE, I DON'T THINK IT'S A MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE QUESTION.

I THINK THE TARGETING AND REACH, I'VE SAID THAT SINCE I JOINED, WE, WE WANT THE MAXIMUM TOURISM DOLLAR FOR EVERY VISITOR THAT COMES HERE.

WE NEED TO BE TARGETING THOSE PEOPLE.

BUT I DO THINK WE JUST NEED MORE FUEL IN THE ENGINE IN ORDER TO REACH A LITTLE DEEPER AND, UH, BRING UP SOMETHING SOMEBODY ELSE HAS SAID BEFORE.

WE'RE IN A MORE COMPETITIVE MARKET WHEN THE MARKET SHRINKS.

EVERYBODY IS FIGHTING FOR A SHRINKING SHARE.

SO WE GOTTA BE BETTER AND SMARTER, BUT WE PROBABLY ALSO NEED TO BE BIGGER.

I I, I THINK THE ID I THINK THE IDEA OF DIFFERENTIATING OR BEING REALLY CLEAR ABOUT MORE MONEY SPENT,

[01:10:01]

ABOUT TOURISTS THAT COME HERE AND TRAFFIC, EVEN THOUGH THERE'S NO TRAFFIC RIGHT NOW.

I MEAN THE, THE HISTORY IS LIVING IN THE COMMUNITY.

AND SO IT SEEMS THAT THE A IF WE'RE GONNA DO THE ASK IS DOUBLED.

WE NEED TO BE REALLY CLEAR THAT WE'RE NOT HEARKENING BACK TO OVERT TOURISM, HORRIBLE TRAFFIC.

UM, BUT WE'RE KEEPING, WE'RE THINKING ABOUT RETAIL AND OTHER SERVICE INDUSTRY AND THE TOURISM INDUSTRY ALIVE.

WELL, WE DO HAVE AN, I MEAN THAT THOSE TAX DOLLARS COME IN FROM THE BUSINESSES AND THAT WE'RE REDEPLOYING THOSE SO WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO STEWARD THAT.

WELL, UM, I, AND I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS WHAT WE SAID WHEN THIS TAB CAME TOGETHER IS MAXIMIZE, RIGHT? THE ECONOMIC POSITIVE IMPACTS.

WELL, MINIMIZING AND TARGETING HIGHER SPEND, HIGHER HOUSEHOLD INCOME VISITORS IS VERY CONSISTENT WITH THAT.

HOW DID WE END UP WITH THOSE PARTICULAR, UM, TARGET GROUPS? I MEAN, WERE THERE SOME FRINGE GROUPS, UH, THAT, YOU KNOW, LIKE ART LOVERS OR, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, SPA SEEKERS OR, YOU KNOW, ARE, ARE THERE SOME OTHER GROUPS THAT ACTUALLY WERE STRONG FOR US, JUST NOT AS STRONG AS THESE, BUT MIGHT HAVE HIGHER, UH, INCOME BRACKETS? UM, NO, THOSE TWO THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED FOLD INTO THE CULTURAL EXPLORER AND THE WELLNESS SEEKER.

I THINK IT'S ABOUT, UM, PROBABLY HITTING SOME TYPE OF SAMPLE SIZE THAT'S BIG ENOUGH FOR DVA TO FEEL GOOD ABOUT, UM, SENDING OUT ADS TO.

BUT THOSE WERE DETERMINED BECAUSE, UM, THEY LOOKED AT, UM, WHO'S VISITED IN THE PAST.

UM, AND, UH, WHO SPENDS MONEY HERE? UH, AND UM, AND THEN THE DESTINATIONS KIND OF CAME OFF OF THAT.

YOU KNOW, HERE'S, HERE'S HIGH POPULATIONS OF THOSE PEOPLE.

HERE'S WHERE THEY LIVE.

THEY LIVE IN SEATTLE, THEY LIVE IN NEW YORK.

THEY LIVE, YOU KNOW, RIGHT.

IN THESE TYPES OF PLACES.

SO THAT'S HOW THOSE NUMBERS WERE OR THE FIRST THE CATEGORIES.

AND THEN, UM, THE NUMBERS THAT GO WITH IT ARE, UM, I BELIEVE IT'S THE AVERAGE OF THAT.

LIKE IN GENERAL, IF YOU TAKE ALL OF THAT TYPE OF PERSON, THAT'S WHAT THEY GENERALLY MAKE.

SO I CAN ASK IF I CAN MAKE A CULTURAL EXPLORER WITH ONE 50 TO 300, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T KNOW.

I'M NOT SURE.

BUT, UM, I'LL ASK ABOUT ALL OF THAT.

I FEEL LIKE THE WELLNESS SEEKER, I WAS THINKING OF THIS EARLIER TODAY, EVEN WHEN I LOOKED AT THIS, THAT NUMBER DOESN'T SEEM HIGH ENOUGH TO ME.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY WANTING TO GO TO SPAS AND I, THE COST OF SOME OF THOSE EXPERIENCES IS, YOU KNOW, VERY HIGH.

AND IT MAKES ME THINK THAT THAT BRACKET DOESN'T ACCURATELY REPRESENT MM-HMM .

THE PEOPLE THAT MAY FIT INTO THAT MM-HMM .

CATEGORY.

SO I'M NOT SAYING THIS BECAUSE I PARTICULARLY LIKE CHILDREN OR FAMILIES, BUT WE DID HAVE THAT CON OR ESPECIALLY IN THE SWIMMING POOL FOR EXAMPLE.

THAT'S OKAY SAYING THAT TONGUE IN CHEEK OF COURSE.

BUT, UM, WHERE DOES THE CONVERSATION THAT WE WERE HAVING ABOUT FAMILY, FAMILY FRIENDLY, HOW DOES THAT INTERSECT HERE? BECAUSE NONE OF THESE PEOPLE, NONE OF THESE GROUPS READ FAMILY TO ME.

DO THEY? BUT YET A FAMILY COULD BE IN ANY OF THOSE GROUPS.

BASED ON THE PARENTS GET THE CARE IS, YEAH.

A MAP THAT SHOWS, WELL, HERE'S WHERE THE CULTURAL FLOORS ARE HERE, WHERE THIS IS AND WHERE THOSE ARE WILL BE HELPFUL TO ME PERSONALLY.

WELL, I GOTTA BE, I THINK WE GOTTA BE CAREFUL TOO ABOUT PUSHING THE HOUSEHOLD INCOME UP TOO HIGH BECAUSE WE STILL GOTTA, WE'RE REPRESENTING THE WHOLE COMMUNITY, RIGHT? MM-HMM .

RIGHT? AND SO I THINK WE GOTTA BE CAREFUL THAT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS, I THINK YOUR ONE 50 IS PROBABLY RIGHT, 200.

BUT WE START PUSHING TOO MUCH TOO HIGH.

WE'RE GONNA HAVE ANOTHER GROUP UNDERNEATH OF US THAT ARE GONNA SIT THERE AND SAY, WHAT ABOUT US? SO I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE KEEP THAT AT BALANCE TOO.

'CAUSE WE, THE TAB REPRESENTS THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY.

SO IS THERE AN OVERLAY BETWEEN THE MARKETS WE'RE TARGETING? SO I, YOU KNOW, MY IMPRESSION ALWAYS IS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE MARKETING TO PHOENIX.

I ALWAYS FEEL LIKE THOSE PEOPLE ARE COMING, THEY'RE GONNA SPEND WHAT THEY'RE GONNA SPEND.

I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH WE'RE MOVING THE NEEDLE.

I THINK THE DATA'S PROVEN ME WRONG.

THAT'S THE SUPPOSITION I HAD.

BUT I'M JUST ASKING THE QUESTION.

SHOULD SHE, OUR REFINEMENT INCLUDE BOTH THE MARKETS AS WELL AS THE INCOME LEVEL.

IT WOULD BE SO INTERESTING IF, YOU KNOW THIS DBA HAS SORT OF TO ESTABLISH THIS.

SO WHERE'S THE MAP AND WHERE ARE THESE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, SEEING

[01:15:01]

'CAUSE I HAVE A HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING EXACTLY HOW WE GET FROM THIS TO THE DESTINATIONS THAT WE'RE CHOOSING AND, AND WHERE IT'S, YEAH.

THERE'S BRACKET SHOULD BE IN TERMS OF INCOME AND THERE'S BASICALLY A DATA PROFILE ON EVERY PERSON .

UM, AND THERE ARE HIGHER PERCENTAGES OF, UM, THE ECO-CONSCIOUS EXPLORER IN SAN FRANCISCO THAN THERE ARE IN DALLAS.

SURE.

UM, AND WE KNOW THAT, UM, AND IT'S, IT'S, I'M I'M PROBABLY OVERSIMPLIFYING IT, BUT, UM, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE ECO-CONSCIOUS EXPLORER DOESN'T GET SERVED.

THAT THOSE ADS DON'T GET SERVED IN DALLAS.

THEY JUST GET SERVED MORE OFTEN IN SAN FRANCISCO, IN SEATTLE, UM, THAN THEY WOULD IN A DIFFERENT TYPE OF CITY.

WOULD WE CONSIDER A CHANGE OF ONE OF THOSE OUT OF MARKETS TO MAYBE DALLAS, TO PERHAPS A YOUNGER HIPPER AUSTIN? I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, WELL, FOR EXAMPLE, AUSTIN IS THE ECO-CONSCIOUS IN DALLAS THAT WOULD BE A MUCH MORE ALIGNED TO THINK TRADITIONAL DALLAS MARKET IS ON OUR LIST.

'CAUSE YOU TOOK, IT'S NOT A HIGH PERFORMING MARKET IN THE WINTER, RIGHT? AUSTIN WASN'T.

UM, DALLAS IS NOT.

SO THEREFORE IT'S NOT ON OUR LIST.

I, BECAUSE IF THAT'S THE CASE FROM AN OPTIMIZATION PERSPECTIVE, I WOULD TEST AUSTIN IN ITS REPLACEMENT BECAUSE IT HAS GROWN SIGNIFICANTLY THE YOUNGER POPULATION AND A VERY WEALTHY POPULATION IF YOU LOOK AT THE DEMOGRAPHICS THERE.

SO AUSTIN WOULD BE A GREAT SWAP OUT.

SO THIS KIND OF GETS BACK TO OUR FIRST CAMPAIGN WHEN THE CITIES THAT, UM, I HAD COME UP WITH WERE MORE LIKE PARK CITY MM-HMM .

AND NOT SALT LAKE.

UM, AND THEY SAID THAT, UM, WHILE THEY COULD SERVE THE ADS TO AN AREA SMALL AS PARK CITY, THAT ACTUALLY THE BIGGER CITY IS A, IS A BETTER RETURN ON INVESTMENT.

SO, UM, ESPECIALLY WITH ALL HIGHER INCOME LEVELS.

I WOULD JUST WANNA, I MEAN, THESE WERE NOT PICKED OUT OF THIN AIR.

THESE WERE VERY SPECIFIC IN TERMS OF, UM, PAST VISITATION AND SPEND.

WE OVERLAID THOSE TWO.

SO, UM, I, I CAN CERTAINLY HAVE THE CONVERSATION OF GOING BACK TO THAT KIND OF, UM, PARK CITY, UM, MORE SPECIFIC THAN SOMETHING LIKE, ARE YOU GUYS ASKING ABOUT MORE SPECIFIC THAN DENVER, LIKE ASPEN VAIL, LIKE THAT TYPE OF VISITOR OR HELP HELP ME WITH THAT.

NO MORE LIKE, UM, WELL WHAT ABOUT SALT LAKE CITY? I MEAN, IT'S AN OUT OF MARKET, BUT IT'S STILL A DAY'S DRIVE IF YOU WANNA DRIVE A LONG TIME .

BUT, UM, BUT IT'S STILL, IT'S, IT'S ALSO GOT A WHOLE NEW TECH INDUSTRY THERE, RIGHT? UH, IT'S GROWING.

THAT'S RIGHT.

UM, IT MAY BE WORTH HAVING THEM KIND OF RE-LOOK AT THE MARKETS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT MATCH.

AND, AND I'LL JUST SAY FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, IF, IF, IF YOU'RE GONNA GIMME ONE IN TEXAS, I'M GONNA SCRATCH OFF DALLAS AND PUT AUSTIN IN ITS PLACE THAT'S BEST FOR US FOR MY BUSINESS' EXPERIENCE.

HMM.

AND THEN I'VE TALKED TO OTHER BUSINESSES THAT A MILLION PEOPLE, IT'S NOT 20 MILLION PEOPLE WAS TALKING TO THE OTHER DAY, BUT IT'S AGAIN, THE DEMOGRAPHIC OF THAT THAT'S INTERESTED TO COME HERE.

THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF THE CROSS THING THERE.

RIGHT? YEAH.

I WAS SURPRISED THAT SEATTLE DIDN'T PERFORM BETTER.

'CAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS KIND OF THE PERFECT MM-HMM .

MIX OF MM-HMM .

THAT ETHOS AND A LARGER, SO I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION ON THAT.

SO ON YOUR STAFF REPORT, IT LISTS SEATTLE TWICE, BUT SEATTLE IS, I KNOW I SCREWED UP THAT AND IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN, IS THAT SAN FRANCISCO? IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SAN FRANCISCO.

SEE IF IT REALLY WORKS OR NOT.

I CAUGHT THAT TODAY TOO, , BECAUSE YEAH, THERE SEEMS TO BE A PRETTY BIG JUMP FROM LA THEN THOSE BOTTOM FIVE ARE ALL, MAY I ASK THE QUESTION THIS WAY? IS IT POSSIBLE TO TEST GO BACK WITH DBA AND TO TEST, YOU KNOW, THESE, AGAIN, AGAIN, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I'M SUGGESTING WITH THE AUSTIN DALLAS THING, IS THAT MAYBE THERE'S A WAY TO, TO TEST, IS THERE A BETTER WAY OF LOOKING AT IT TO, TO AGAIN, HONE IN ON WHAT COULD WE GIVE YOU A BETTER ROAS OR RETURN? I DO THINK WE GET A GOOD ROAS RIGHT NOW THOUGH, JUST FOR THE RECORD.

SO I JUST DON'T, I'M, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE DATA DRIVEN DECISIONS RATHER THAN, I REALLY LIKE AUSTIN PEOPLE BETTER, SO LET'S GET THEM HERE.

YEAH, NO, NO, I'M JUST SAYING, MY DATA SHOWS AUSTIN PULLS A WHOLE LOT BETTER THAN DALLAS IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO TELL YOU BASED UPON MY ROAS MM-HMM .

UM, SO, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GONNA TAKE IT TWO TO THREE MONTHS FOR ANY CHANGE TO

[01:20:01]

ANYWAY, SO YEAH, HOW THAT WOULD GO IS I'D PROBABLY WANNA PLACE THE SAME AD TO THE SAME TYPE OF PERSON IN BOTH MARKETS AND SEE WHICH ONE PERFORMED AND THEN, YEAH, I WOULDN'T KNOW UNTIL TB TESTING I WAS SUGGESTING MIGHT HELP US.

I WOULDN'T KNOW UNTIL MARCH.

DIFFERENTIATE SOME OF THESE MARKETS THAT YOU MAY NOT TODAY SEEM HIDDEN TO US, BUT MAYBE GEMS GOING FORWARD.

SO IS THAT THE, THE SPEND, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE ASKING FOR TWICE AS MUCH MONEY, THEN DO WE HAVE FUNDS TO DO SOME OF THAT REAL TIME TESTING? I DUNNO, JUST THINKING ALSO WHAT'S, THAT'S A QUESTION'S, THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN, UH, DESTIN, UM, THESE CITIES AND FLIGHT FLIGHT, UM, FLIGHT AT, AT THE MOMENT.

BECAUSE FOR NOW EVERYTHING GOES THROUGH DALLAS, RIGHT? IF YOU FLY OUTTA PHOENIX, YOU GENERALLY HAVE TO GO THROUGH DALLAS TO GO ANY PLACE ELSE, OR AT LEAST I HAVE.

SO, AND OFTEN TOURISM AND NARRATIVES ABOUT TOURISM OFTEN ARE BASED ON WHAT FLIGHTS ARE NOW, SO AND SO ADD THIS, THIS AIRLINE ADDED THIS FLIGHT TO THIS PLACE, AND NOW SUDDENLY THERE'S A TOURIST BOOM THERE.

SO IS, DOES THAT FIGURE IN AT ALL HERE THE EASE OF GETTING TO PHOENIX AND THEN GETTING HERE? NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF, BUT I CAN SAY THAT THE LONGER FLIGHT, THE, THE LONGER THE DISTANCE, THE LOWER THE ROAS MM-HMM .

GENERALLY SPEAKING, LIKE I WOULD TAKE DALLAS OFF COMPLETELY, EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT IT SEEMS THAT I HAVE BEEN IN THAT DALLAS AIRPORT WAY TOO OFTEN OF LATE.

AND I THINK IT'S AMERICAN FLIES THROUGH THERE.

AND THERE'S A NONSTOP BETWEEN HERE AND AUSTIN AND SOUTHWEST.

SO, I MEAN, IT'S A DIRECT FLIGHT.

SO YOU CAN, YOU CAN MAKE ARGUMENTS BOTH SIDES AND WELL, AND THAT, BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M WONDERING HOW MUCH OF THAT IS PART OF HOW WE THINK ABOUT MARKETS.

AND I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE, BUT THE MEASURING OF THE ROAS, IT'S STILL, TO ME IT'S, IT IS KIND OF VERY, VERY DIFFICULT, UM, GIVEN HOW GOOGLE WORKS AND HOW META WORKS.

YOU KNOW, DIGITAL ADVERTISING CUSTOMER, SOMEBODY LOOKING, YOU KNOW, THEY TYPE IN SEDONA PRETTY MUCH ANYWHERE AND NOW GOOGLE KNOWS THEY'RE INTERESTED IN SEDONA AND THEY START FEEDING THEM YOUR ADS.

HOW DO YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, WERE THEY ALREADY PLANNING ON COMING? SO IT'S REALLY, REALLY HARD TO SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS BROUGHT THEM HERE.

YOU KNOW, AND IT'S, IT'S JUST, TO ME, IT'S JUST A, IT'S VERY NEBULOUS AND HARD TO, HARD TO HARD TO MAKE THOSE CALLS.

AND IS IT, IT'S GONNA GET HARDER FROM WHAT YOU'RE RELAYING TO US IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO TRACK THE SPEND, RIGHT? YES.

WELL YOU LITERALLY CAN JUST SAY SEDONA AND YOUR PHONE PICKS IT UP, , RIGHT? YEAH.

YOU START SEEING ADS, SO MM-HMM .

SO I, I KEEP COMING BACK TO, IS THERE A THRESHOLD THAT YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO EXPLORE KNOWING THAT IT COULD LEAD TO A RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL AND A TYPE OF PERSON THAT YOU WISH WE WERE MARKETING TO THAT WE AREN'T NOW? CAN WE ALL COALESCE AROUND THOSE TWO POINTS AND YOU'RE GOING, WHICH DAY TO THE CITY COUNCIL? 23RD, 14TH OF OCTOBER.

14TH OF OCTOBER.

THAT'S WHEN YOU GO WITH THIS.

SO WE HAVE ANOTHER MEETING IN BETWEEN, THIS IS TO EXECUTE, RIGHT? THAT'S WHY I'M SITTING HERE THINKING IS THAT WE REALLY HAVE ANOTHER MEETING.

SO I THINK THE QUESTIONS FOR US IS IF WE WERE TO GIVE DV THERE'S WORK TO BE DONE.

YES AND NO, BECAUSE MY STAFF REPORT TO CITY COUNCIL IS DUE BEFORE OUR TAB MEETING.

GOTCHA.

WHAT IS, WHAT IS THE CURRENT, I KNOW YOU SAID IT WAS ONE 19 LAST YEAR.

IS THAT, DID I GET THAT RIGHT? YES, 24.

AND WHAT ARE YOU ASKING FOR THIS YEAR? 1 59.

1 59? MM-HMM .

UH, GROUP OF PEOPLE AND MAYBE DIFFERENT MARKETS BASED ON THE ANALYSIS.

SO IF, UH, TO PICK UP ON JOHN'S SUGGESTION, DOES THAT WOULD BE 2 59? IS THAT ESSENTIALLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? I'M JUST TRYING TO PUT SOME NUMBERS OUT THERE SO WE CAN GET YOU AN ANSWER.

IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, JOHN? YEAH, I MEAN MY, MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD SAY IT WOULD BASICALLY TAKE A HUNDRED, ANOTHER A HUNDRED THOUSAND, BUT IT'S ALL VERY TARGETED AND USE THE RECOMMENDATION FROM DVA TO GET THAT HOUSEHOLD INCOME.

AND AGAIN, I'M TRYING TO MAKE SURE WE COVER THE ENTIRE MARKET, NOT JUST HIGH END STUFF, BUT YOU SAY 150 PLUS.

WELL, ANOTHER WAY OF LOOKING AT IT'S THAT INCREMENTAL MONEY THAT WE WANT, WE WOULD, THE EXISTING ONE 60 WOULD BE SPENT AS IS AS PLANS.

SO THAT COVERS EVERYBODY.

RIGHT? AND THEN THE INCREMENTAL OUT OF MARKET 96 WOULD BE SPENT ON A HIGHER END,

[01:25:02]

THE AGENCY DOES CUT DOWN, WELL GET US THE DATA THAT WE NEED TO THEN OPTIMIZE AFTERWARDS.

IS THE POINT I'M MAKING BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE AB TESTING WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION.

YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T, WE DON'T TO MAKE THE LIKE FINE CUTTING ME.

I COULD SAY MY EXPERIENCE IS DON'T SPEND IN DALLAS, SPEND IN AUSTIN, BUT THAT'S NOT EVERYBODY'S EXPERIENCE AND IT MAY NOT BE WHAT'S GONNA BE AS SORTED, SUPPORTED BY THE DATA.

SO I THINK THE PROPOSAL THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT THE KEEP THE 1 59 AS IS, ADD THE 100 AND USE THAT FOR THE TESTING AS YOU SUGGEST WITH THAT, RIGHT.

WITH THE GREATER THAN ONE 50 DIFFERENT SUB SEGMENTS OF THE MARKET, DIFFERENT MARKETS.

MY PROPOSAL NOT GREATER, TWO 20 OR 2 25, ALTHOUGH I HEAR THAT, BUT ONE 50 AND ABOVE INCLUDES THEM.

SO I WOULD SAY THAT'S A PARTIAL AND THEN DO SOME OF THE TESTING FOR MAYBE SOME MORE OUTTA MARKET TO SEE IF THERE'S SOME NUGGETS THERE AND THEN GET BACK, YOU KNOW, AFTER THIS CYCLE AND SEE WHERE WE ARE.

BUT RICHARD, MY MY CONCERN IS THAT WE'RE NOT OUR SPEND DATA'S NOT GONNA BE GREAT.

SO I'M REALLY CONCERNED THAT IF WE START SPENDING THIS MONEY TO TEST THIS MARKET AGAINST THIS MARKET, BUT WHEN WE GET THEM HERE AND WE CAN'T TRACK THEIR SPEND, WE MAY END UP WITH, SO, AND I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD SAY, OKAY, THE 1 59 EXACTLY AS YOU LAID OUT IS WHAT WE SHOULD DO AT A HUNDRED.

BUT I'M SAYING WHAT, WHAT I THINK I'M SAYING, I THINK I'M SAYING IS THAT WE ARE IN A MATERIALLY DECLINING MARKET AS IS EVERYBODY ELSE.

AND TO COMPETE, WE NEED TO SPEND MORE.

AND I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE LOOK AT, AT A $250,000 SPEND AND LOOK AT IT FROM SOUP TO NUTS.

WHAT IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY THAT YOU CAN COME UP WITH YOUR TEAM AS DATA DRIVEN AS POSSIBLE TO MAKE THAT SPEND? SO I WOULDN'T EVEN SAY LEAVE THE 1 59.

I'D SAY LOOK AT EVERYTHING, BUT I, I AM CONFIDENT WE NEED TO PUT MORE MONEY INTO THIS BUCKET TO GET A RESULT.

UNDERSTAND THAT.

SO IS THAT TWO 50 IN ADDITION OR NO, INSTEAD OF ONE, TWO, OH, I'M, I'M ROUNDING DOWN BECAUSE I'M JUST LIKE, I CAN HEAR THE COUNCIL.

UM, , IT'S LIKE 1 49, 1 59 AND 100.

ONE, YOU'RE BASICALLY, ONE, YOU'RE BASICALLY, YOU YOU 1 59 YOU'VE PROPOSED PLUS ANOTHER A HUNDRED.

SO WE'RE ROUNDING IT DOWN AND SAY TWO 50 TOTAL UNDERSTOOD.

IS KIND OF WHAT WE'RE SAYING.

AND SO GIVEN THE INPUTS, WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST WAY THEN TO ALLOCATE IT GIVEN THE FACT WE'VE HAD MULTIPLE PERSPECTIVES? YEAH.

IS THAT THE RIGHT WAY TO SAY THAT? YEAH.

AND I GUESS ANOTHER WAY OF RATIONALIZING IT IS IF THE ECONOMY TANKS OVER THE NEXT YEAR, WE'RE GONNA HAVE AT LEAST 18 MONTHS OF RECESSION.

SO A YEAR FROM NOW, WE'RE GONNA BE MUCH BETTER INFORMED ON WHAT DO WE NEED TO SPEND IN WINTER OF 26, 27, ALL BOATS RISE AND ALL BOATS GO DOWN TOO.

SO, I DON'T KNOW, JUST, WE WON'T KNOW.

ALRIGHT.

ARE YOU GETTING WHAT YOU NEED FROM US? DO WE HAVE CONSENSUS ON THAT? THAT YOU WANT CONSENSUS ON THE TWO 50? YEAH.

FOR THE ASK FIRST.

AND I WILL EXPLORE WHAT THAT OTHER 96 COULD GO TOWARDS, UM, IF IT'S GONNA DO WHAT WE WANT IT TO DO AND HOW TO MARKET TO THE PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE THAT AREN'T FEELING THE ECONOMIC PINCH RIGHT NOW.

SO A PROPOSAL TO TAKE THE WINTER CAMPAIGN UP TO $250,000.

WE ALL IN AGREEMENT I LAUREN'S CAVEATS.

AND THEN THE SECOND ONE IS TO TARGET THE, SAY THAT AGAIN.

MM.

THAT'S MY, HOW DO YOU WANNA SAY IT? UM, HIT REPLAY .

UH, REPLAY THE PEOPLE WHO AREN'T FEELING THE ECONOMIC PINCH IN THE ECONOMY.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS.

TOP 20%, TOP 10 NORTH OF ONE 50 OR ABOVE.

RIGHT? NORTH OF ONE 50.

AND WE DON'T KNOW HOW FAR NORTH AT THIS MOMENT, WHICH IS THE DBA FEEDBACK YEAH.

TO MAKE IT MORE SPECIFIC TARGET HIGHER INCOMES.

THE NEXT TOPIC, UM, WHICH IS, AS YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT ONBOARDING SOME NEW TAB MEMBERS.

SPENDING.

SO WITH THAT, WE CAN GO TO

[5.d. Group discussion: Planning to bring on new TAB members]

AND SO WE JUST WANTED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION, UM, TO ASK ALL OF YOU.

UM, AND WHAT I'M ASKING FOR IS PRIORITIES, SINCE I DON'T THINK THAT

[01:30:01]

WE'LL JUST BE ABLE TO PRODUCE ALL OF, UM, THIS INFORMATION FOR NEW PEOPLE.

BUT, UM, WE'D LIKE TO JUST UNDERSTAND, UM, WHAT KIND OF ACTIVITIES OR RESOURCES THAT THE TOURISM TEAM SHOULD BE CONSIDERING SO THAT THESE NEW MEMBERS CAN, UM, BE UP TO SPEED WITH WHAT WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON.

AND DO YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU ALL HAVE BEEN TO THE PROCESS.

UM, I WISH LINDSAY WAS HERE.

SHE'S ACTUALLY NOT FEELING WELL TONIGHT, SO, UM, SORRY TO HEAR THAT.

BUT, UM, SHE'S OUR NEWEST TAB MEMBER, SO SHE'S, YOU KNOW, GONE THROUGH IT FRESH OF WHAT MAYBE SHE WISHES SHE WOULD'VE HAD.

BUT IS THERE ANYTHING, UM, THAT YOU'RE HOPING WE CAN PRODUCE FOR THESE NEW FOLKS? ASIDE FROM HAVING THEM WATCH ALL OF OUR MEETINGS, WHICH I, I I, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS GONNA SUGGEST ACTUALLY.

IT WOULD BE A LOT.

THAT'D BE A BIG ASK.

I THINK CERTAINLY SOME OF THOSE EARLY MEETINGS WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT THE BRAND AND ALL OF THE THINGS THAT WE FELT WERE IMPORTANT FROM THE COMMUNITY'S PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, UM, AND THEN ALSO HOW VALUABLE TOURISM IS TO THE COMMUNITY.

AND JUST SOME OF THOSE, UM, COMMUNITY RELATION THINGS COULD BE IMPORTANT.

AND JUST UNDERSTANDING HOW WE GOT TO WHERE WE ARE WITH THE BRAND AND MAYBE AN ORG CHART EXPLAINING, SO THE CITY NOW HAS A-D-M-M-O, THIS IS ANDREW'S HOW THAT, SO WE KNOW WHO THE PLAYERS ARE.

'CAUSE WE ALL, WE WERE ALL LIKE CHANGING THIS TIRE AND THE CAR AS WE WERE RUNNING ALONG, SO WE ALL GOT TO KNOW EACH OTHER.

BUT IF YOU'RE COMING IN, IT ALWAYS FEELS UNCOMFORTABLE.

WHO'S THIS PERSON? WHO'S THAT PERSON? WHO'S THAT? WHO DOES THAT JOB? YEAH.

SO, YOU KNOW, PRETTY SIMPLE KIND OF ORG CHART ON HOW THAT'S LAID OUT AND WHO DOES WHAT.

BUT I THINK IT ALSO AN ORG CHART OF US, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S THE BIG THING TOO, IS WHEN WE FIRST GOT PUT ON THIS GROUP, WE ALL HAD, I WOULD SAY, GENRES THAT WE'RE REPRESENTING OR BUSINESS TYPES OR COMMUNITIES THAT WE'RE REPRESENTING.

THEN I THINK MAKING SURE THAT THAT'S ALSO DEFINED AS WE LOOK FOR THE NEXT REPLACEMENTS THAT WE DON'T GET OUT OF BALANCE.

I THINK THAT'S THE OTHER PIECE.

AND SPECIFICALLY I'D LOVE TO SEE SOMEBODY FROM THE ARTS COMMUNITY.

UM, I THINK THAT'S A HUGE PIECE THAT WE'RE NOT REALLY TOUCHING ON.

THAT DEFINITELY ATTRACTS VISITORS THAT SPEND MONEY.

SO, AND IT'S A, IT'S INTEGRAL AND I I WE HAVE NOT REALLY HAD THAT REPRESENTED ON THE BOARD YET.

I ALSO DON'T HAVE RESTAURANT.

WELL, YES, YES.

IT'S OKAY.

RENEE IS A REPRESENTATION OF THE ART.

I, I REPRESENT A COUPLE DIFFERENT YES, YES.

AS A RETAILER, I'M A ART, ART AND JEWELRY RETAILER.

THAT, THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING.

LIKE SOMEBODY MAYBE FROM THE ART CENTER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT SORT OF THING.

YOU KNOW, I THINK, UM, THEY, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU WOULD PULL THIS TOGETHER.

MAYBE, MAYBE YOU COULD PULL OLD ARTICLES FROM THE RED ROCK NEWS, BUT, UM, I THINK THEY NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE EVOLUTION FROM THE CHAMBER TO THE CITY CONTROL OF THE TOURISM PROGRAM.

I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT BACKGROUND BECAUSE THERE MAY ALSO BE PEOPLE WHO WANNA BE ON THE BOARD WHO HAVE BEEN IN THE COMMUNITY.

MAYBE THEY, YOU KNOW, DON'T THINK WE'RE DOING A GOOD ENOUGH JOB OR WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, BUT THEY SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT TRANSITION AND, AND THE ONGOING, WE HAVE A VISITOR CENTER, WE WORK TOGETHER.

NOT THAT THAT'S EVER A SUBJECT FOR DISCUSSION , BUT YEAH.

THE ONLINE.

SO YEAH, THAT KIND OF HOW THAT WHAT THAT, HOW THAT WAS DONE MM-HMM .

AND NOW WHAT THE CURRENT RELATIONSHIP IS THAT COULD BE A CHEAT SHEET ON THAT COULD BE HELPFUL.

SO WHERE WE WERE AND WHERE WE ARE NOW, WHICH COMBINED FOR SAYING, YEAH.

LIKE TO KIND OF ROLL IT INTO, UM, THE NEXT ITEM, WHICH IS, UM, FUTURE TOPICS.

WELL YOU'RE WELCOME TO EMAIL US.

ANY OTHER THOUGHTS THAT YOU HAVE ON THAT? UM, THE LAST QUESTION ABOUT WHAT TOPICS YOU ALL WOULD LIKE TO HEAR, UM, MORE INFORMATION AS TAB MEMBERS.

I'D

[5.e. Group discussion: Future TAB agenda items]

SO, UM, ANYTHING YOU ALL WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT, HEAR ABOUT? I KNOW THAT WE'VE GOT A FEW THINGS IN THE WORKS.

UM, WE'VE GOT THE, UM, THE VALUE OF TOURISM ANDREW HAS BEEN WORKING ON.

UH, WE DID ACTUALLY GET, I THINK WE MENTIONED THIS LAST MEETING.

WE GOT THE 2023 NUMBER.

UM, AND WE WANTED TO VALIDATE IT, UM, BY GETTING A 2024 NUMBER.

UM, AND SO WE, AS PART OF OUR A OT CO-OP APPLICATION, UM, WE HAVE ENTERED INTO ANOTHER CONTRACT, UM, WITH DEAN RUNYON TO GET A 2024 NUMBER.

AND WHEN WE GET THAT BACK, UM, IN A FEW MONTHS, WE'LL BE BRINGING THAT TO YOU.

[01:35:01]

SO KNOW THAT AND BY THE VALUE OF TOURISM.

WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS THAT BREAKDOWN OF, UM, HOW MUCH OF OUR TAX BASE IS TOURISM DEPENDENT AND HOW MUCH IS RESIDENT DEPENDENT.

UM, THAT NUMBER.

ANY OTHER TOPICS THAT YOU'D LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT CITY TOPICS THAT WE'RE WORKING ON? WHAT ELSE CAN I TEE UP FOR ALL OF YOU? SO I HAD MENTIONED BEFORE, I'M SUPER INTERESTED IN THE INTERSECTION OF SUSTAINABILITY MM-HMM .

AND TOURISM AND HOW OUR EFFORTS, UH, THE CITY'S EFFORTS INFORM THE WAYS WE THINK ABOUT TOURISM, THE, THE SORT OF THE DIRECTIVES THAT WE WANNA GIVE OUR VISITORS.

YEAH, DEFINITELY THAT AND THE TRANSIT.

I WOULD LOVE MM-HMM .

AND I'VE, I'VE SORT OF WANTED THIS FOR A LONG TIME, UM, TO UNDERSTAND MORE SPECIFICALLY, AND YOU KNOW, IT, WHEN WE NOW HAVE A NEW TRANSIT PERSON, UM, I, I MEAN IT WOULD BE AWESOME IF SOME OF THESE PEOPLE WOULD COME IN AND KIND OF DO THESE MINI PRESENTATIONS TO US SO THAT WE FEEL REALLY INFORMED.

I THINK FROM THE BEGINNING IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THAT, YOU KNOW, I WANTED TO HAVE SOME SORT OF LINK THAT I COULD SEND OR SOME SORT OF VERY SPECIFIC CITY APPROVED HERE IS, YOU KNOW, STAFF APPROVED, HERE'S THE INFORMATION THAT YOU WANT US TO SHARE WHEN WE SEE THINGS OUT THERE THAT ARE INACCURATE, MISINFORMED, UM, BLOWN OUTTA PROPORTION AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

UM, AND THEN, AND AND JUST HAVING THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE SOME OF THAT FACE, FACE-TO-FACE TIME WITH SOME OF THESE OTHER DEPARTMENTS, I THINK WOULD BE, WOULD BE QUITE HELPFUL.

THE WALK BIKING TRAILS AND MM-HMM .

WHAT'S, WHAT'S BEEN DONE? WHAT'S STILL PLANNED? YEAH.

SIM FOR SURE.

AND HOW SIM AND TRANSIT WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE A MORE, YOU KNOW, BENEFICIAL MOVEMENT AROUND THE CITY THAT IS GOING TO BENEFIT TOURISTS AND IS ALSO GOING TO BENEFIT.

JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE OF SOME OF THOSE SPECIFICS AND NEW, SO GUEST, GUEST SPEAKERS.

BASICALLY.

UH, FOREST SERVICE'S A GOOD POINT.

I MEAN, YES.

AND WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THAT A LONG TIME AGO, OR FRIENDS OF YOU ALL MEET WITH, YOU ALL MEET WITH THEM, BUT I DON'T FEEL LIKE I'VE EVER, AS A MEMBER REALLY UNDERSTOOD SOME OF THE NUANCES OF THAT RELATIONSHIP.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HAVE SO MUCH OF THAT, THAT LAND THAT ISN'T UNDER OUR PURVIEW BUT IS STILL RIGHT HERE.

I'D LIKE SOME MORE INFORMATION.

UM, NOT ONLY ABOUT THE TRANSIT AND HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE USING THE SHUTTLES AND NOW THE NEW MICRO TRANSIT AND ALL THAT, AND JUST THE, YOU KNOW, THE UPDATED, I KNOW WE GOT SOME OF THAT IN THE BROCHURES THAT WE GOT THE LAST TIME, BUT JUST CONTINUED INFORMATION ON THAT.

AND I THINK SOME OF THE PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT, THE PROJECTS THAT ARE COMING INTO TOWN THAT ARE BIG PROJECTS THAT WE NEED TO BE AWARE OF, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S A GIANT NEW HOTEL GOING UP IN SCHLEY OR IF, YOU KNOW, EVEN HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS IT, I THINK IT WOULD JUST BE NICE TO JUST HAVE A PULSE ON, ON WHAT'S COMING DOWN THE CHUTE.

YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

I'LL BE IN FRONT OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION ON OCTOBER 7TH.

YOU'RE WELCOME TO COME AND SEE WHAT WE PLAN.

NICE.

YEAH, DEFINITELY.

I MEAN, I'LL SPEND, I WILL BET THAT I WILL SPEND TIME CLICKING THROUGH EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE PROJECTS THAT'S BEEN APPROVED OR WHATEVER, JUST 'CAUSE I'M TRYING TO, TO KNOW, UM, WHAT'S HAPPENING.

AND THEN YOU WILL HEAR THINGS IN THE COMMUNITY ABOUT, OH, THEY'RE BUILDING ANOTHER THIS, OR HOUSING.

THIS OBVIOUSLY IS A BIG TOPIC, BUT IT WOULD BE NICE TO, TO HAVE SOMEBODY KIND OF COME IN AND SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING.

THIS IS VERY MUCH A PART OF WHAT SHOULD BE INFLUENCING YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS.

I THINK SOMETHING ELSE IN THERE TOO WOULD BE TO GET EITHER CHERYL AS CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD FOR THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE OR DAVID IN HERE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE DOING SO THAT WE HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING.

I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM, BUT THAT WE REALLY GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING WITH THEIR BID, WHO THEY'RE TARGETING, WHO THEY'RE MARKETING TO, WHO THEY'RE NOT MARKETING TO AT THIS POINT.

UM, I THINK THAT WOULD JUST BE HELPFUL INFORMATION FOR EVERYBODY TO KNOW WHERE THEY STAND AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

AGREED.

AND EACH OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW, COME IN AND, AND GIVE US SOME INFORMATION, ALLOW US TO HAVE THIS MORE ROBUST UNDERSTANDING OF PROVIDING THE CITY COUNCIL WITH REALLY, UM, INFORMED RECOMMENDATIONS.

WHERE SOMETIMES FEEL LIKE WE'RE SORT OF EXTRAPOLATING FROM DIFFERENT AREAS WHERE WE ALL ARE, YOU KNOW, VERY MUCH MORE OF A COMMUNITY MEMBER, FAMILY FOCUSED, THINGS LIKE THAT.

UM, SMALL, SMALL, SMALL BITS.

AND THEN WE HAVE REALLY BIG BUSINESSES THAT ARE REALLY RELYING ON THESE $250,000 A YEAR PLUS INCOMES.

AND BY BRINGING SOME OF THESE PEOPLE IN, IT KIND OF BRINGS US ALL TO A REALLY STRONG FOUNDATION SO WE CAN THEN PUT OUR LITTLE BITS OF EXPERTISE ON TOP OF THAT TO REALLY GIVE A, YOU KNOW, A MEANINGFUL RECOMMENDATION.

IS SORT OF AN ASIDE, BUT MAYBE IT GOES TO DATA.

SO THIS

[01:40:01]

I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS INCOME BUSINESS 250,000.

SO I DON'T MAKE THAT MUCH MONEY, BUT I AM A SUPER SHOPPER .

LIKE I ALWAYS, I MEAN, I ALWAYS SHOP ENOUGH THAT THERE'S OFTEN BOXES THAT HAVE TO BE SENT.

AND I WOULD SAY THAT WHEN I TRAVEL WITH MY WOMEN FRIENDS MM-HMM .

THE SAME.

AND SO I'M SUPER CURIOUS ABOUT IF WE CAN UN IF WE CAN DO A LITTLE BIT OF UNTANGLING OF WHO ACTUALLY SPENDS MONEY.

AND I MEAN, WHEN FAMILIES COME, DO THEY SPEND MONEY? I MEAN, THEY HAVE TO GO OUT TO EAT, THEY, RIGHT? I MEAN, PERHAPS.

SO I'M CURIOUS ABOVE, ABOVE JUST THESE INCOME LEVELS, WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT? I MEAN, WE COULD, WE COULD JUST GO IN AND GOOGLE RIGHT NOW, LIKE, WHO SPENDS MONEY WHEN THEY TRAVEL? UM, AND I THINK THAT MIGHT ALSO HELP US TO BE TARGETED IN MAYBE DIFFERENT WAYS, BUT I THINK THAT'S WHAT DVA CAN HELP US WITH.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHERE THE RECOMMENDATION FROM DVA CAN HELP US.

THEY HAVE ALL THAT TYPE OF DATA SITTING OUT THERE AT SOME POINT.

THAT MAY BE WHY THE REDEFINED FAMILY TIME WAS SO POPULAR AND GOOD ROA.

SO, BECAUSE THAT MAY APPEAL MORE TO WOMEN, RIGHT? MAYBE, I DON'T KNOW.

NOT ME IN PARTICULAR, BUT OR ME, ALL THOSE ILL BEHAVED KIDS IN THE POOL.

I HAVE TO GIVE VIENNA TALKING TO NO, ILL BEHAVING IN THE POOLS.

I, I WILL SAY THAT, UM, WHEN WE GET GROUPS OF WOMEN, LADIES COME IN AND THEY'RE ON A LADIES TRIP OR A WOMEN'S TRIP, THEY SPEND YEAH.

THEY, THEY ENCOURAGE EACH OTHER TO SPEND.

SO IT'S, IT'S A GOOD THING.

ALL PEER PRESSURE.

ALSO IN STUDYING TOURISM, I MEAN SOUVENIR AND CRAFT SHOPPING.

I MEAN, NOT HIGH-END, LIKE HIGH-END PAINTINGS FOR RIGHT.

NOT LIKE $15,000, $25,000 PAINTINGS.

THAT'S NOT, WE DO HAVE A RANGE PRICE POINTS HERE, WHICH YOU'VE DISCUSSED MM-HMM .

I MEAN, IT'S ALMOST OBLIGATORY WITH LIKE WOMEN'S GROUPS THAT YOU, LIKE, YOU, I MEAN, PEOPLE BUY THINGS FOR EVERY PERSON THEY KNOW WHEN THEY TRAVEL MM-HMM .

AND IT MAY BE $50 AN ITEM MM-HMM .

BUT STILL THEY'RE SPENDING MM-HMM .

WHEREAS WHEN YOU'RE COMING AS A COUPLE, THEN MAYBE THE ONE PERSON IS DISCOURAGING THE OTHER TO SPEND .

THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

AND I, I WILL SAY AS FAR AS LIKE RETAIL GOES, UM, THE FAMILIES ARE NOT THE BIG SPENDERS BECAUSE THEY'RE DISTRACTED BY THEIR CHILDREN.

THEY DON'T WANT THEIR KIDS TO, YOU KNOW, TOUCH OR ACCIDENTALLY SHOPLIFT OR SOMETHING.

YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T WANT TO ACCIDENTALLY BUY ANYTHING.

THEY'RE VERY, VERY DISTRACTED IN GENERAL.

SO IT'S THE LADIES ON THEIR GRILL.

GRILL, THOSE KIDS ARE COSTING 'EM $200,000 A PIECE AS IT IS.

ALTHOUGH, I WOULD IMAGINE RESTAURANTS, RIGHT.

RESTAURANTS ARE NOT, LIKE, WHAT I'VE HEARD IS THAT RESTAURANTS ARE NOT HURTING.

THEY DON'T NEED THEIR OWN, YOU KNOW, MARKETING CAMPAIGN WITH A CHAMBER.

THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED 'CAUSE THEY'RE NOT HURTING.

IT'S EVERYONE ELSE.

YOU KNOW, THE LOGIC.

AND THEY HAVE TO, THEY HAVE TO EAT.

EVERYONE'S GOTTA EAT.

I THINK SAFEWAY'S DOING OKAY TOO.

WE GOT ANYTHING ELSE? ANYBODY GOT ANYTHING ELSE FOR THE GROUP? SO WAS THAT HELPFUL FOR YOU THEN IN TERMS OF YES.

WHAT YOU WANNA HEAR? YEP.

I'LL START TEEING THESE THINGS UP WITH OUR MEETINGS.