* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. NO. [00:00:01] OKAY, THANKS. ALRIGHT, [1. CALL TO ORDER, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIENCE, ROLL CALL] I'D LIKE TO CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER. THIS IS THE CITY OF SEDONA PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION. IT'S TUESDAY, OCTOBER 21ST, 2020 5, 4 30. PLEASE RISE WITH ME FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WISHES STANDS ONE NATION UNDER GOD IN THE POSITION OF LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. THANK YOU. ROLL CALL PLEASE. CHAIR LEVIN. YES, I'M HERE. VICE CHAIR HOSNI. HERE. COMMISSIONER MARTIN. PRESENT. COMMISSIONER WHEEL HERE. COMMISSIONER HURST. HERE. COMMISSIONER ESKI HERE. AND COMMISSIONER SMITH HERE. THANK YOU. [2. ANNOUNCEMENTS & SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY COMMISSIONERS & STAFF] WE'LL MOVE ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO. ANNOUNCEMENTS AND SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF COMMISSIONERS. NO. OKAY. UM, I WANTED TO, UM, BRING YOU UP TO SPEED ON THE VACANCY, UM, FOR ONE OF OUR COMMISSIONERS', UM, TERMS. AND WE'VE RECEIVED TWO APPLICATIONS FOR THAT. THE, UH, APPLICATION PERIOD IS CLOSED, OBVIOUSLY, AND THEN INTERVIEWS WILL BE, UH, SCHEDULED SHORTLY. AND SARAH, UM, SARAH'S REAPPLIED AND ONE OTHER INDIVIDUAL. OKAY. AND THEN I WANTED TO MAKE SOME REMARKS. THIS IS MY LAST, UH, COMMISSION MEETING, UM, AND ENDING MY TERM AT THE END OF THE MONTH. I WANTED TO FIRST THANK CITY COUNCIL, BOTH PRESIDENT PAST FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE THE COMMUNITY THAT I LOVE. AND I WANNA THANK ALL OF THE SMART, FUNNY, VERY CAPABLE STAFF IN THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT. NOTABLY CARRIE MEYER, LEGAL AND ENGINEERING DEPARTMENTS, UH, ALL OF WHOM I'VE HAD THE PRIVILEGE TO, UH, WORK WITH. AND LASTLY, UH, I WANNA THANK THE NUMEROUS TALENTED COMMISSION MEMBERS WHOSE COLLABORATION AND EXPERTISE HAVE GIVEN ME IMMENSE PLEASURE IN BEING PART OF A TEAM EFFORT. THAT'S IT. UH, WELL, STAFF ANNOUNCEMENTS. I WAS JUST GOING TO ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR LAST MEETING TOO. UM, CHAIR LEVIN WAS ONE OF MY COWORKERS WHEN I STARTED HERE. AND AFTER SHE RETIRED, SHE TOOK MAYBE SIX MONTHS OFF, I DON'T KNOW. AND THEN JUMPED BACK INTO TO SERVING IN THIS CAPACITY. SO IT'S BEEN A JOY TO, TO GET TO KNOW YOU AND TO HAVE YOU ON THE COMMISSION FOR THESE MANY YEARS AND YOU WILL BE MISSED. LIKEWISE, LIKEWISE. THANK YOU CARRIE. AND I'D ALSO LIKE TO POINT OUT, THIS IS STEVE'S LAST MEETING AS THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR. RIGHT. UM, SO WE HAVE A NEW COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR SET STARTING ON MONDAY. AND STEVE WILL BE, UM, STICKING ON AS OUR BUILDING OFFICIAL. AND SO, I DUNNO. SO YES, I DON'T, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANNA STEP ON YOUR PARADE. THIS IS, THIS IS YOUR PARTY, REALLY. YOU, AT LEAST THIS IS HOW WE PARTY. . NO, I, I DID WANNA SAY, UM, THAT, UH, WE'VE IN TOTAL HAVE APPRECIATED YOUR LEADERSHIP AND YOUR INSIGHTFULNESS, UH, ON THIS COMMISSION. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I HOPE I, YOU KNOW, HOPE FOR THE BEST FOR YOU FOR WHATEVER FUTURE ENDEAVORS YOU HAVE. AND, UH, YEAH, WE'RE GONNA MISS YOU. SO, UH, THANK YOU FOR THAT. THANK YOU, STEVE. LIKEWISE. UM, AND THEN MY REPLACEMENT, TONY ALLEN, UH, WILL BE STARTING NEXT MONDAY, OCTOBER 27TH. SO, UM, HE WON'T HAVE ME TO KICK AROUND ANYMORE. YEAH. . SO HE'S, UH, HE ALSO IS VERY EXPERIENCED. UH, I THINK YOU'LL FIND HIM VERY ENGAGING. MM-HMM . UM, AND, UH, I'M VERY HAPPY THAT, UH, THAT HE HAS CHOSEN US AND WE HAVE CHOSEN HIM AND SO MM-HMM . YEAH. LOOKING TO POSITIVE FUTURES. YEAH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE? OKAY, WE'LL CLOSE THAT ITEM. UH, [3. APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES] MOVE ON TO NUMBER THREE, APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES. SEPTEMBER 16TH, 2025, THE REGULAR MEETING. AND SEPTEMBER 16TH, 2025 SITE VISIT. IF THERE ARE NO, UH, CHANGES TO THOSE MINUTES, THEY STAND APPROVED. OKAY, WE'LL CLOSE THAT ITEM. MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER FOUR, PUBLIC FORUM. THIS IS THE TIME FOR THE PUBLIC TO COMMENT ON MATTERS NOT LISTED ON THE AGENDA. THE COMMISSION MAY NOT DISCUSS ITEMS THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED ON THE AGENDA PURSUANT TO A RS SECTION 38 DASH 4 31 H. ACTION TAKEN AS A RESULT OF PUBLIC COMMENT WILL BE LIMITED TO DIRECTING STAFF TO STUDY THE MATTER, RESPONDING [00:05:01] TO CRITICISM OR SCHEDULING THE MATTER FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION AND DECISION AT A LATER DATE. AND I DO NOT HAVE ANY CARDS FROM PEOPLE THAT WANT ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO SPEAK TO THIS ITEM. SO I WILL CLOSE THAT PUBLIC FORUM [5.a. Public Hearing/discussion/possible action regarding a request for Development Review for a proposed hotel renovation and expansion to add a new restaurant and a net of 23 new hotel rooms, at 400 N State Route 89A and 40, 45, 50, and 60 Art Barn Lane (Best Western Arroyo Roble). The properties are zoned Lodging (L), are ±4.77 acres, and are located on the southeast side of N State Route 89A between Art Barn Road and Arroyo Roble Drive. APN: 401-13-021, -022, -023, -024, -025, -060G, -061A.] AND MOVE ON TO AGENDA NINE. ITEM NUMBER FIVE, CONSIDERATION OF THE FOLLOWING ITEMS THROUGH PUBLIC HEARING PROCEDURES, A PUBLIC HEARING DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING A REQUEST FOR DEVELOPMENT REVIEW FOR A PROPOSED HOTEL RENOVATION. AN EXPANSION TO ADD A NEW RESTAURANT AND A NET OF 23 NEW HOTEL ROOMS AT 400 NORTH STREET STATE ROUTE 89 A AND 40 45, 50 AND 60 ART BARN LANE. BEST WESTERN ROYAL ROBLEE. THE PROPERTIES ARE ZONE LODGING AND THEY'RE PLUS OR MINUS 4.77 ACRES AND ARE LOCATED ON THE SOUTHEAST SIDE OF NORTH STATE ROUTE 89 A BETWEEN ART BARN ROAD AND ROYAL ROADWAY DRIVE. PARCEL NUMBERS 4 0 1 DASH ONE THREE DASH 0 2 1 AND 0 2 2 AND 0 2 3 AND 0 2 4 AND 0 2 5 AND 0 6 0 G AND 0 6 1 A. THIS IS CASE NUMBER PZ 24 DASH 0 0 5 DEVELOPMENT. THE APPLICANT IS ENSEMBLE INVESTMENTS, LLC REPRESENTED BY RANDY MCGRAIN AND AUTUMN STORM. AND WE'LL OPEN WITH A STAFF PRESENTATION. THANK YOU CHAIR. AND CAN I ASK, IS THE APPLICANT MAKING A PRESENTATION? YES, THEY WILL MAKE A PRESENTATION AFTER ME AND IT'S SHORT. UM, MINE IS WE'LL AND THE APPLICANTS, THEY WILL PRESENT WHAT THEY WANT TO PRESENT, SO I HAVEN'T REALLY LOOKED THROUGH THE LENGTH OF THEIRS. OKAY, THANK YOU CARRIE. UM, SO MY PRESENTATION IS JUST AN OVERVIEW OF WHAT WAS IN THE STAFF REPORT. UM, HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS OR PROVIDE ANY CLARIFICATIONS THAT, UM, ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE. UM, SO THIS IS ALL THE INFORMATION THAT, UM, THE, THE CHAIR READ. I WILL POINT OUT THAT THERE'S A COUPLE DIFFERENT NUMBERS THAT ARE USED FOR THE ACREAGE. UM, THE LOWER, I THINK IN THE STAFF REPORT IT WAS A LITTLE BIT HIGHER. THAT'S A, ALL OF THE PROPERTIES VERSUS THE LOWER NUMBER IS JUST THE PROPERTIES WITH THE DEVELOPMENT ON THEM. SO THERE WAS JUST A COUPLE DIFFERENT THINGS. 'CAUSE THEY'RE NOT PROPOSING DEVELOPMENT. I BELIEVE THEY'RE RETAIL BUILDING THAT'S RIGHT ON THE CORNER. I DON'T THINK THAT BUILDING WAS INCLUDED IN SOME OF THE AREA CALCULATIONS 'CAUSE THERE'S NO EXTERIOR CHANGES PROPOSED TO THAT BUILDING. AND SO IF THERE'S QUESTIONS ABOUT DIFFERENT NUMBERS FOR ACREAGE, I'M SORRY, THAT KIND OF SLIPPED THROUGH AS WE WERE LOOKING AT DIFFERENT THINGS. UM, BUT THE CURRENT HO UM, CURRENT LAND USE IS A HOTEL AND A VACANT PROPERTY. AND AS THE CHAIR READ, THEY ARE PROPOSING TO RENOVATE AND ADD TO THE EXISTING BUILDING, UM, AND THEN ADD 23 UNITS ON THE VACANT PROPERTY. UM, THIS PROPERTY IS ZONED LODGING. UM, THIS IS A LITTLE BIT UNIQUE AND IT IS A LODGING PROPOSAL THAT DOES NOT COME WITH A ZONE CHANGE BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY ZONED LODGING. UM, THE EXISTING HOTEL WHEN THE LODGING ZONING WAS INSTITUTED, WAS PERMITTED UP TO 61 LODGING UNITS, AND THAT'S ON THE EXISTING PROPERTY. UM, AND THE VACANT PROPERTY DID NOT HAVE A NUMBER ASSOCIATED WITH IT WHEN IT WAS REZONED TO LODGING. SO IT IS PERMITTED EIGHT UNITS PER ACRE, WHICH IS WHERE THE, UM, INCREASE THE 23 NEW UNITS COMES FROM OTHER COMMERCIALS, SUCH AS THE RESTAURANTS SUCH AS THE, UM, DAY SPA THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING TO ADD, ADD TO THE RETAIL BUILDING. THOSE ARE ALL PERMITTED WITHIN THE LODGING ZONE AS WELL. UM, IS THE VICINITY MAP, IF YOU CAN, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S QUITE OBVIOUS, BUT THIS DOWN HERE IS THE VACANT PROPERTY. AND THEN THIS UP HERE IS THE EXISTING HOTEL. THIS BUILDING ON THE CORNER, UM, IS THE RETAIL BUILDING THAT IT'S ON ALL INTERIOR RENOVATION, WHICH IS, UM, CONTRIBUTING TO SOME OF THE DIFFERENCES IN ACREAGE DEPENDING ON WHICH DOCUMENT, UM, YOU LOOK AT. BUT IN GENERAL, EXISTING HOTEL BUILDING AND PROPOSED EXPANSION, UM, THIS IS JUST THE AERIAL OF THOSE PROPERTIES. UM, ONE THING TO NOTE IS THAT PART OF THEIR PROPOSAL WOULD BE TO COMBINE THESE PROPERTIES UP HERE. SO WE DID NOT CONSIDER THE PROPERTY LINES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DEVELOPMENT AS WE WERE REVIEWING THE PROPERTY. WE JUST LOOKED AT THE OUTER EDGE. BUT THE PROPERTY DOWN HERE WOULD STAY AS A SEPARATE PARCEL, WHICH IS NEEDED BECAUSE OF THE DIFFERENT LODGING DENSITIES THAT ARE PERMITTED ON EACH PROPERTY. UM, THIS [00:10:01] IS THE SITE PLAN THAT THEY HAVE PROPOSED. UM, SO YOU SEE THE EXISTING BUILDINGS UP HERE WITH, UM, THE PROPOSED NEW RESTAURANT. THEY ARE PROPOSING A FEW NEW CASITA UNITS DOWN HERE, BUT THE, TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY DON'T GO OVER THEIR PERMITTED NUMBER OF LODGING UNITS. THEY'RE TAKING SOME OUT AND REPURPOSING SOME OF THE SPACE INSIDE THE BUILDING THAT'S BEING CURRENTLY USED AS LODGING UNITS. AND THEN THEY HAVE 23 NEW CASITA UNITS DOWN ON THE VACANT PROPERTY. UM, THESE ARE THE ELEVATIONS THAT WERE PROPOSED AS PART OF THE PACKET. UM, AND THIS WOULD BE THE, UM, EITHER, YOU KNOW, THE, I GUESS LEFT AND RIGHT NORTH, SOUTH, HOWEVER YOU WANNA LOOK AT IT. SIDES OF THE, THE BUILDING. UM, IT SAYS THE TOP IS THE BACK OF THE BUILDING AS WOULD BE SEEN FROM THE VACANT PROPERTY. THE BOTTOM IMAGE HERE IS THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING AS WOULD BE SEEN FROM 89 A. AND THEN WE JUST HAVE THE CASITA UNITS. THIS, I BELIEVE THESE ARE THE FLOOR PLANS. THEY BE ONE BEDROOM, ONE BATHROOM LODGING UNITS. UM, 23 OF THEM. THEY'RE ABOUT 12 FEET TALL, SO THEY'D JUST BE SCATTERED ALONG AROUND THE VACANT PARCEL AS SHOWN ON THE SITE PLAN. . UM, AS WE LOOKED AT THIS PROPOSAL, WE LOOKED AT, YOU KNOW, DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS, SIGNS, PROCEDURES FOR APPROVAL, UM, AND THE FULL EVALUATION OF ALL OF THAT IS IN YOUR PACKET. AS I DID SAY, WE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. UM, AS OUTLINED IN THE STAFF REPORT, UM, STAFF DID FIND THAT THE PROJECT AS CURRENTLY PROPOSED WAS NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE SECTIONS, INCLUDING HEIGHT ALLOWANCES, UM, SETBACK REQUIREMENTS, AND THEN A NUMBER OF BUILDING ARTICULATION, BUILDING DESIGN STANDARDS FROM ARTICLE FIVE, INCLUDING UNRE BUILDING PLANES, UM, TRANSPARENCY, WHICH IS WINDOWS ON THE STREET SIDE OF THE BUILDING, BUILDING LENGTH AND COLOR. THE COLOR BEING THAT LARGE BUILDINGS ARE REQUIRED TO GO TO A DARKER COLOR. AND THE COLOR THEY PROPOSED DOESN'T MEET THAT THE CAS. BUT THIS IS AGAIN, MOSTLY REGARDING THE HOTEL BUILDING AND THE RESTAURANT EDITION, THE CASITAS, THE 23 CASITAS, THEY'RE THOSE COMPLIED, BUT THIS IS ALL BEING INCLUDED AS ONE APPLICATION. UM, IN ADDITION, AS FAR THE OVERALL PROJECT, THE TRAFFIC STUDY THEY'VE SUBMITTED HAS NOT BEEN ACCEPTED BY THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT. UM, HANUKAH IS AVAILABLE BY TEAMS. UM, SHE HAD A CONFERENCE THIS WEEK, SO SHE IS LOGGED ON THERE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT. UM, AND WE ALSO HAD SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING LOADING SPACES AND THE SIGN PLAN THAT WAS SUBMITTED WITH THE PROJECT. UM, SO JUST TO BRING UP THOSE, UM, I'M SORRY, THE, THE LINES ARE A LITTLE DARK, BUT THE ELEVATIONS, AGAIN, THE AREAS IN RED THAT ARE CIRCLED, THAT'S THE RESTAURANT EDITION WHERE THERE ARE SOME ISSUES WITH THE HEIGHT AT BEING OVER THE PERMITTED HEIGHT. UM, THE AREAS CIRCLED HERE ARE THE PORTICO SHARE AND THE CHANGES TO THAT. UM, NOT BEING IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND, UM, BEING TALLER THAN THE EXISTING PORTICO SHARE AND WITHIN THE FRONT SETBACK. UM, AND THEN UNRELIEVED BUILDING PLANES WHERE, UM, THE, THOSE PLANES EXCEED THE MAXIMUM PERMITTED. UM, SO THE APPLICANT DID, UM, SUBMIT THEIR CITIZEN PARTICIPATION REPORT. THE DOCUMENTS HAVE BEEN ON OUR WEBSITE, UM, OH, THAT I DID NOT DELETE THE WORD CONCEPTUAL, BUT THIS PUBLIC HEARING WAS ALSO NOTICED IN THE RED ROCK NEWS WE POSTED ON THE PROPERTY. WE'VE DONE A MAILING. UM, BELIEVE ALL THE COMMENTS HAVE BEEN PROVIDED TO YOU. I BELIEVE THE ONLY COMMENT THAT WE'VE GOTTEN WAS ONE COMMENT FROM DURING THE CONCEPTUAL STAGE LAST YEAR. WE DIDN'T RECEIVE ANY COMMENTS DURING THIS STAGE. UM, SO AS OUTLINED IN THE STAFF REPORT AND DUE TO THE, UM, DEFICIENCIES AND MEETING THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE ON THE RESTAURANT EDITION AND THEN SOME OF THE OVERALL SITE CONDITIONS, AS, UM, I MENTIONED IN THE PRESENTATION AND OUTLINE MORE FULLY IN THE STAFF REPORT, UM, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING DENIAL OF THIS APPLICATION. AND IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM. OTHERWISE THE APPLICANT DOES HAVE A PRESENTATION AS WELL. THANK YOU CARRIE. UM, WITH THE CON COMMISSION'S CONSENT, SO WE GO TO THE APPLICANT'S PRESENTATION NOW MM-HMM . OKAY. I'D LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION FIRST. ALL RIGHT, GO AHEAD. UM, I JUST WANNA CLARIFY IN MY MIND, LDC TALKS [00:15:01] ABOUT BUILDING PLANES AND RELIEVING THEM AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. MM-HMM . YOUR COMMENT ON THE SOUTH ELEVATION OF THE EXISTING TOWER MM-HMM . ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE ONLY WAY THAT SOUTH ELEVATION CAN COMPLY IS TO BE RELIEVED? SO UNRELIEVED BUILDING PLANES REQUIRE YEAH, THE, SOME KIND OF SOMETHING THAT CREATES A SHADOW, SOME KIND OF PROJECTION RECESSION IN THE WALL. SO THERE, AS CURRENTLY SHOWN ON THE PLANS, IT DOES NOT COMPLY. AND SO IT WOULD NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING ADDED TO THE WALL IN ORDER TO COMPLY. OKAY. THANK YOU APPLICANT. IF YOU'LL COME ON UP TO THE TABLE, STATE YOUR NAME PLEASE. CITY OF RESIDENCE, AND YOU CAN SPEAK FROM THE TABLE. THANK YOU. MM-HMM . SO I'M RANDY GRA, I'M ONE OF THE FOUNDING PARTNERS FOR ENSEMBLE INVESTMENTS AND I RESIDE IN PHOENIX, ARIZONA. I'M MICHAEL MARKKU OF MARCH DESIGN GROUP. I RESIDE IN SCOTTSDALE, ARIZONA. AND YOU CAN USE THAT TO CLICK THROUGH YOUR PRESENTATION. OKAY. AND WE'LL GO CR WE'LL GO AS QUICK AS WE CAN THROUGH THIS PRESENTATION. APPRECIATE THAT. THE, THE REASON, YEAH, THE REASON FOR THE PRESENTATION, AS YOU CAN HEAR, WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO COME TO TERMS WITH STAFF ON VARIOUS INTERPRETATIONS. UM, AND SO WE THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO BRING ALL THE INFORMATION WE HAD TO THE COMMISSION FOR THEM TO REVIEW IT IN CONTEXT. SO LET'S GO QUICKLY THROUGH HERE. I DON'T THINK YOU KNOW WHERE THE SITE IS. WE DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT. I'M GONNA STOP ON THIS SLIDE AND SPEND A MOMENT. UM, WE HAVE BEEN VERY, VERY FOCUSED ON FOCUSED THE HISTORY OF THIS SITE AND HOW IT FITS IN ITS PLACE IN UPTOWN AND HOW WE COULD USE A REDEVELOPMENT OF THAT PROJECT TO ADVANCE UPTOWN, SPECIFICALLY THE NORTHERN PART, SEDONA ART CENTER. AND, UM, AND WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH A BRAND NEW BUILDING. WE'RE DEALING, AS YOU CAN SEE IN 1960. IT WAS AN EYESORE THEN AND IT'S BEEN AN EYESORE EVER SINCE. AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I CAME TO THIS PROJECT WITH IS A COMMITMENT TO TRANSFORM IT. I CAN'T CHANGE IT, IT'S A FIVE STORY BUILDING, BUT HOW CAN I REPOSITION THIS TO ACCOMPLISH A COUPLE OF GOALS? AND THAT'S TO NOT MAKE IT AN EYESORE IN UPTOWN. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, TO DRIVE AS MUCH ECONOMIC STIMULUS AS I CAN THROUGH THE EXISTING PROPERTY. SO I'M NOT ADDING ROOMS AND VISITORSHIP. THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT BECAME VERY CLEAR TO ME IN SERVING ON THE TAB. THAT'S HOW WE MAKE THIS THING WORK. SO WE'RE DEALING WITH A VERY DIFFICULT SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES. IN ADDITION, WE HAVE A VERY HISTORICAL SITE, SO THIS IS WHERE THE ORIGINAL JORDAN APPLE ORCHARD WAS. UM, THIS IS WHERE THE JORDAN DITCH RUNS THROUGH. UH, AND, AND SO, AND I WAS VERY COMMITTED TO TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO BRING AS MUCH PUBLIC GOOD, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR VARIANCES OR ANYTHING ELSE. SO WE'VE INVESTED HEAVILY IN AN ART PLAZA THAT WOULD CONNECTED THE ART CENTER LIKE THIS WEEK IT WOULD BE FULL OF PEOPLE IF IT WAS DONE BECAUSE OF THE PLANET ART, UH, PLANET ART FESTIVAL. UM, AND THE WAY WE READ THE CODE AND THE WAY WE READ THE BUILDINGS, WE THINK WE ARE IN COMPLIANCE. AND SO IT'S A FAIR DISAGREEMENT. I'VE TALKED TO CARRIE, HAVE THE GREATEST RESPECT FOR WHAT SHE DOES, BUT IT'S A DIFFICULT PROJECT, UH, TO WORK THROUGH. SO WE'LL SPEND SOME TIME, I'M GONNA TURN THIS OVER TO MICHAEL MARK, WHO THE ARCHITECT TO KIND OF WORK THROUGH THOSE ISSUES THAT CARRIE RAISED, UM, SO WE HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT OUR POSITION IS ON THIS. GO AHEAD. MICHAEL, DID YOU WANNA KEEP GOING THROUGH THE, WELL, I, I, THIS IS JUST A SENSE OF HOW THIS PROPERTY LOOKS WHEN IT'S DEVELOPED. IF YOU'RE LOOKING FROM DOWN ON THE SITE BACK UP INTO THE RE RENOVATOR PROPERTY, THESE ARE ALL THE BASIC INFORMATION THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS. UM, SKIP AHEAD HEAD. SO THIS IS THE PROPOSED VIEW FROM THE INTERIOR. THIS IS ONE OF THE OTHER BENEFITS TO, UM, THE RENOVATION AND BEING ABLE TO REPURPOSE AND REPOSITION THIS PROPERTY. UM, RIGHT NOW IT DEFINITELY IS A CHALLENGE PROPERTY IN TERMS OF ITS EXPERIENCE FOR GUESTS. AND OUR PURPOSE IS REALLY TO UTILIZE WHAT IS ALWAYS GONNA BE THERE. IT'S A FIVE STORY BUILDING WITH AMAZING VIEWS, AND RIGHT NOW IT'S BEING UNDERUTILIZED. AND SO WHAT WE WANT IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO KIND OF REPOSITION THAT PROPERTY AND THAT THE BONES THAT AREN'T GONNA CHANGE AND JUST REUTILIZE THOSE AS A MUCH HIGHER EXPERIENCE. SAME THING HAPPENS WITH REPOSITIONING THE POOL LOCATION. WHAT WE'RE DOING IS REMOVING THE EXISTING POOL UP ONE FLOOR, UH, TO MAKE IT MORE ENGAGED WITH THE EXISTING HOTEL. AND AGAIN, UTILIZING THE EXPERIENCE THAT'S ALREADY THERE, WHICH IS TO [00:20:01] BRING A POOL THAT IS NOW A BEACHFRONT EXPERIENCE. WHAT USED TO BE SORT OF AN ENCLOSED, UH, KIND OF HIDDEN ELEMENT THAT WAS REALLY HARD TO GET TO. ONCE WE BRING THAT UP TO THE LEVEL OF THE HOTEL, WE NOW HAVE A TRUE EXPERIENCE THAT IS BECOMES PRETTY ICONIC FOR THE AREA. AND FOR SOMETHING TO BE DOWNTOWN TO HAVE THAT KIND OF DRAW, UM, I THINK WE FEEL IS A REALLY HUGE OPPORTUNITY TO BE USED. UM, THIS IS THE INTERIORS OF THOSE CASITAS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. THOSE CASITAS, IF IT WASN'T MENTIONED, THOSE ARE REPURPOSED SHIPPING CONTAINERS THAT WE'RE, UH, PREFABBING DOWNTOWN IN IN PHOENIX. UM, THOSE ARE, HAVE THE BENEFIT OF USING RECYCLED MATERIAL AND ALSO SHORTENING THE CONSTRUCTION, CONSTRUCTION TIME ON SITE BECAUSE WE CAN DO ALL THAT MANUFACTURING OFFSITE AND THEN DROP THOSE ON PRETTY LIGHT, UH, FOOTPRINT ON THE SITE. I, I WANTED TO MENTION ONE OTHER, 'CAUSE THIS REALLY FASCINATED ME. WHEN I, WE STUDIED HISTORY ON THIS SITE, I FOUND OUT THAT, UM, THE JORDANS BOUGHT THIS LAND WITH THE VERY FIRST ENVIRONMENTAL LAWSUIT SETTLEMENT IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA BY THE ARIZONA SUPREME COURT. AND SO WHEN YOU STARTED TO UNDERSTAND THAT TO, I WANTED TO DELIVER A VERY SUSTAINABLE, A VERY ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSITIVE UNIT TO THIS. AND SINCE I SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN UPTOWN, I WANTED TO DO IT IN A WAY WHERE THE CONSTRUCTION IMPACT WOULDN'T GO ON FOR YEAR AND YEAR AND YEAR. SO WE'RE REALLY EXCITED TO FIND THIS PARTICULAR PRODUCT AND BRING IT TO THE PROJECT. THIS IS THE GENERAL SITE OVERVIEW SECTION. UH, BASICALLY AS MENTIONED EARLIER, OUR CASITAS ARE TO THE, UM, TO THE SOLAR PANELS BECAUSE EACH ONE OF THESE UNITS IS ACTUALLY INDEPENDENTLY SOLAR. UH, THEY'RE GANGED IN GROUPS OF SEVEN SO THAT IF ONE, ONE UNIT IS OFFLINE, THAT POWER IS SUPPORTING THE OTHER SIX. AND SO THOSE ARE ALL KIND OF DAISY CHAIN THROUGHOUT. SO FROM A POWER SPEC PERSPECTIVE, ALL OF THE CAS ARE OFF THE GRID. UM, WE ORIGINALLY INVESTIGATED WHETHER OR NOT WE COULD DO THAT FOR BOTH WATER AND SEWER. AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE DID FIND IS WHEN YOU'RE, UM, ASKING GUESTS TO DO SOMETHING THAT THEY DON'T, THEY AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH, THEY TEND TO GET INTO TROUBLE. SO THE KINDS OF, UH, TOILETS THAT WE'D BE USING FOR OFF-GRID HAVE THEIR OWN COMPLEXITIES AND THEIR OWN CHALLENGES. AND SO WE DECIDED TO JUST PLUMB THOSE JUST FOR LONG-TERM BENEFIT OF THE PROPERTY AND FOR OUR GUESTS. BUT THE OVERALL GOAL IS, AGAIN, TO REDUCE OUR IMPACT ON THE SITE. UM, THE WAY THAT THE FOUNDATIONS WORK, MAKE IT SO THAT THE WATER CAN FLOW UNDERNEATH. SO THERE'S VERY, BUT WE ARE CAPTURING ALL OF, UM, INTERNAL, UH, THE RAIN ON THE SITE INTERNALLY, UH, FOR REUSE. 'CAUSE WE'RE ACTUALLY CAPTURING ALL THAT IN UNDERGROUND STORAGE CONTAINMENT UNDERNEATH THE PARKING LOT. UM, AND THEN WE CAN ACTUALLY REUSE THAT FOR IRRIGATION. UH, THE OTHER ELEMENT THAT WE'RE BRINGING TO THE PROPERTY IS, UH, THE EXISTING STRUCTURE HAS AN ELEVATOR AND TWO STAIRCASES THAT GO DIRECTLY TO THE ROOF, WHICH IS KIND OF RARE FOR THIS TYPE OF PRODUCT. UM, AND SO WITH THAT OPPORTUNITY, WE'RE GONNA ADD A DECK UP THERE FOR YOGA CLASSES AND FOR NIGHTTIME VIEWING. UM, IT'S A REALLY, IT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY THAT WE HAVE FOR A BUILDING THAT'S EXISTING THAT TYPICALLY YOU DON'T GET WITHOUT SOME MORE INVASIVE, UH, KIND OF IN INFRASTRUCTURE. SO WHAT WE WANTED TO KIND OF, AND I DON'T, I KNOW WE WANT TO KIND OF GO THROUGH THIS REALLY QUICKLY, BUT WE WANTED TO KIND OF TOUCH ON THE POINTS THAT, UM, WERE CONSIDERED TO BE NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE CODE. UH, IT'S OUR VIEW THAT THEY ACTUALLY ARE, THERE'S BEEN SOME KIND OF, UH, GOALPOST MOVING IN SOME OF THE THINGS AND WHICH HAS CHANGED, I GUESS THE WAY THAT CERTAIN HEIGHTS ARE, ARE, UM, REFERRED TO. THERE ARE SOME AREAS THAT WE AREN'T IN COMPLIANCE WITH. I THINK THE ONE THING THAT THE UNRELIEVED, UH, BUILDING PLANE THAT WAS JUST BROUGHT UP, TO YOUR POINT, THE SOUTHERN FACADE WOULD REQUIRE A THREE FOOT BY 10 FOOT WIDE BASED ON CODE, UH, ELEMENT TO BE ADDED TO THE SIDE OF THAT BUILDING FOR THAT TO COME IN COMPLIANCE. UM, FOR US THAT IS BOTH UNPRACTICAL A FIRE HAZARD BECAUSE THEN, THEN BECOMES AN, AN UNOCCUPIED SPACE. AND THERE'S REALLY NO, BECAUSE OF THE EXISTING ARCHITECTURE, THERE'S NO PLACE TO CHANGE WHERE, SAY IF WE WERE TO APPLY STONE TO IT OR THERE, IT JUST ARCHITECTURALLY, IT JUST DOESN'T FUNCTION WELL TO MEET THAT CODE. SO WHAT WE ARE ASKING IS, THERE IS A, UM, ELEMENT IN THE CODE THAT BASICALLY SAYS IF THERE IS AN UNCOMPLIANT WALL OVER THE 800 SQUARE FEET, IF IT'S AN INTERNAL FACE THAT FACES ANOTHER BUILDING, WHICH BOTH OF THESE CONDITIONS DO, UH, WE FEEL THAT THIS IS BASICALLY A REQUEST TO SAY THAT WE CAN KIND OF USE THAT CAVEAT TO KIND OF GET OVER THAT PARTICULAR ELEMENT. UH, BUT FIRST I WANT TO GET, GO BACK INTO, UM, SO THE TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY THE [00:25:01] WAY THAT WE WANT TO ADDRESS THAT FIRST OF ALL. AND SO WE DO HAVE OUR CIVIL ENGINEER, DO YOU WANT TO KIND OF SPEAK TO THIS? SURE. ANDREW BAIRD, KIMLEY HORN, UH, CHAIRMAN, VICE CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS. UH, AND I'M GLAD HAN GOES ON 'CAUSE I WAS ABLE TO CHAT WITH HER IN ADVANCE OF THIS MEETING. ONE OF THE, THE, THE REASON THE TRAFFIC IMPACT STATEMENT WAS NOT ACCEPTED WAS THE CLARIFICATION ON THE NORTHBOUND RIGHT TURN LANE REQUIREMENTS. UH, WHAT ADOT NOTES IS THAT IF YOU HAVE OVER 85 RIGHT TURNS DURING A PEAK HOUR, IN ADDITION TO HAVING 400 VEHICLES PER HOUR IN THE ADVANCING DIRECTION THAT YOU WOULD NEED A RIGHT TURN, WE HAVE 99 TOTAL TRIPS, WHICH IS SHOWN ON THE TABLE ON THE LEFT, BUT THOSE TRIPS ARE ACTUALLY IN AND OUT OF THE SITE DURING PEAK HOUR. SO IF YOU LOOK AT OUR TABLE DURING PEAK HOUR ON A WEEKEND, WE HAVE 62 RIGHT TURN MOVEMENTS INTO THE MAIN ENTRANCE WITH 400 PLUS ADVANCING VEHICLES. BUT THAT DOES NOT WARRANT A RIGHT TURN. UH, AND AGAIN, I WAS ABLE TO CLARIFY THAT WITH HANUKKAH LAST WEEK. WE DID NOT RESUBMIT THE TRAFFIC STUDY JUST BECAUSE WE WERE, UM, ON THE AGENDA FOR TODAY. UM, BUT WE DON'T DEEM THAT AS AN ISSUE, UH, REQUIRING A RIGHT TURN IN THE NORTHBOUND DIRECTION. OKAY, THANK YOU. SO THE SECOND ISSUE THAT WAS BROUGHT UP WAS THE NEW PORTIER. UM, ONE OF, WE FEEL THAT IT'S, THIS IS A SIGNATURE ELEMENT IN THE NEW DESIGN IN THAT IT OPENS UP WHAT AN EXISTING BUILDING IS. UM, I'VE ALWAYS REFERRED TO IT AS BASICALLY SOMEBODY WITH A BASEBALL CAP PULLED DOWN OVER THEIR FACE. UM, IT IS NOT A WELCOMING, UH, ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENT THAT'S CURRENTLY THERE. AND SO WHAT WE'RE PLANNING ON DOING IS BASICALLY TAKING THE EXISTING STRUCTURE THAT'S ALREADY THERE, WHICH IS THE SUPPORT STRUCTURE FOR THE EXISTING ORCAS SHARE, USING THAT TO RESTRUCTURE A FLAT ORCAS SHARE. SO THAT IS NOT HIGHER THAN THE EXISTING POISE SHARE. IT'S ACTUALLY BELOW, AND YOU CAN SEE BY THE YELLOW LINE IS THE EXISTING POCOS SHARE AS IT EXISTS. WE'RE THEN REPURPOSING THE SPACE ABOVE THAT POISE SHARE AS A NEW MEETING SPACE WITH AN INDOOR OUTDOOR SPACE. THE TOP OF THE POISE SHARE BECOMES A DECK, UM, THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY HAVE, WHICH ENGAGES BOTH IN THE EXPERIENCES ON 89 A AS WELL AS, YOU KNOW, KINDA BRINGING THAT INSIDE OUT. UM, BUT IT ALSO WORKS IN HELPING OUR TRANSPARENCY, WHICH IS ALSO ANOTHER ISSUE THAT WAS BROUGHT UP AND I'LL TOUCH ON THAT LATER. UH, THE POCO SHARE IS AT THE HIGHEST POINT, WHICH IS FROM THE LOWEST PART OF OUR ARRIVAL TO THE HIGHEST POINT OF THE HANDRAIL. THE GUARDRAIL THAT'S ON THAT IS STILL UNDER 22 FEET. UM, AND THIS IS OVER A FLAT AREA AND SO WE DO FEEL THAT THIS MEETS THE CODE REQUIREMENTS. DO YOU HAVE A POINTER? OH, UH, I DON'T WHAT A POINTER. LASER POINTER. NO, I BELIEVE IT OR NOT, I DON'T, I ALWAYS DO, BUT I DON'T. OKAY. SO THE OTHER ELEMENT THAT WE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT IS SITE ACCESS. THAT WAS, UM, MENTIONED. SO THE AREA IN YELLOW THAT'S NOTED IS ACTUALLY SORT OF A, WHAT WE'RE CALLING, I MEAN IT'S SORT OF A DEAD ZONE BETWEEN THE PROPERTY OF THE SOUTH OF US AND OUR SITE. THE PROPERTY LINE AS NOTED IS THE RED DASH LINE THAT RUNS, AND THEN THERE IS ABOUT 10 FEET SOUTH OF THAT WITHIN THE, UH, AURORA BERRY RESORTS PROPERTY LINE. THAT WOULD EFFECTIVELY BE UN LANDSCAPED, UN IRRIGATED SPACE IF WE WERE TO NOT UTILIZE IT. UH, KIND OF BECOMES AN EYESORE FOR OUR SIDE OF, IT BECOMES A BIT OF A, A, A HAZARD FOR, UM, UPKEEP. SO WE HAVE ENTERED, ENTERED AN AGREEMENT WITH THE PROPERTY SOUTH OF US TO UTILIZE THAT SPACE. UM, THAT WOULD UNDER OTHERWISE BE UNUTILIZED THAT'S AS MENTIONED, THAT IS BOARDED BY A SITE WALL THAT'S EXISTING. SO WE'RE JUST KINDA REPURPOSING AND, AND BECOMING A BENEFIT. UM, WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF, UH, DOING AN EASEMENT WITH THEM AND ACTUALLY WORKING THROUGH AN AGREEMENT. WELL, YEAH, FROM A PROCESS POINT OF VIEW, WE WILL GO BACK. WE HAVE AN AGREEMENT, A BOARD RESOLUTION, THEY'VE APPROVED THIS, BUT WE'RE NOT GONNA RECORD AN EASEMENT OR DRAFT AN EASEMENT UNTIL THE PROJECT'S APPROVED. SO THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS WE HAVE TO DO TO GET A BUILDING PERMIT AND BUILD THIS. AND ONE OF THE FRUSTRATIONS FOR THE APPLICANT IS THE PROCESS IS SO CUMBERSOME AND TIME CONSUMING. I HAVE SPENT, I THINK I CAN SAY FROM A VALID POINT OF VIEW, I'VE SPENT MANY YEARS IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT TIME WAS WELL SPENT BECAUSE IT HELPED ME UNDERSTAND WHAT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE PROJECT. THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO SPEND TIME. IT'S NOT A GOOD WAY TO SPEND TIME [00:30:01] TO GO THROUGH A BUNCH OF PROCESSES THAT ARE BETTER LEFT TO THE NEXT PHASE OF THIS. SO THE IDEA IS LET'S GET THROUGH PLANNING AND ZONING. LET'S LOOK AT A PROJECT THAT WE FEEL MEETS THE OBJECTIVES OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THE OBJECTIVES OF THE CITY. RIGHT? WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO TO GET A BUILDING PERMIT BEFORE WE START. SO THAT TO ME IS THE RIGHT PROCESS TO GO THROUGH. ONE OF THE OTHER ELEMENTS WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT IS SITE ACCESS. UM, IN THE STAFF REPORT IT WAS MENTIONED THAT THERE WERE A NUMBER OF CONNECTIONS TO THE SITE THAT REQUIRE, UM, EASEMENTS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN GRANTED. THERE WAS ONLY ONE NEW CONNECTION, UM, FROM THE SITE. ALL THE OTHER ONES ARE EXISTING CONNECTIONS OFF OF EITHER ROYAL ROAD LEASE ROAD, UM, OR OFF OF 89 A, WHICH IS OUR EXISTING CURB CUT. THE ONLY NEWLY FORMED CONNECTION IS ART BARN LANE, WHICH IS AN EXISTING EASEMENT THAT, AND THAT IS BASICALLY OUR CROSS DRIVE THAT IS JUST KIND OF SOUTHEAST OF THE SEDONA ART CENTER. UM, AND THAT IS BASICALLY CONNECTS INTO AN EXISTING EASEMENT THAT'S ON, UH, THE, THE SITE TO THE NORTH OF US. SO WE'RE A LITTLE CONFUSED ABOUT, I GUESS, WHERE THAT COMES FROM. AND I JUST WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT ONE CHANGE WE MADE FROM THE CONCEPTUAL THAT YOU GUYS SAW ON THIS WAS TO REALLY RESTORE ART BARN LANE. ORIGINALLY WE WERE KIND OF BUILDING THROUGH IT. WE'D RATHER HAVE ONE CONTIGUOUS RESORT AFTER MEETING WITH THE WATER COMPANY AND THE CITY AND AURORA ROBOS RESORT, WE REALIZED THAT THAT'S A VALUABLE THOROUGHFARE NOW. AND I REMEMBER TALKING TO CARRIE ABOUT THIS VISION THAT EVENTUALLY CAN HAVE RESORT AND I DIDN'T KNOW HOW YOU COULD DO IT, BUT NOW I KINDA UNDERSTAND WITH THE MISSION PLAN. SO WE RESTORED THOSE DRIVES AND REDESIGNED OUR PLAN TO ACCOMMODATE FOR THAT. SO, OKAY, HERE COMES YOUR POINTER. OH, THANK YOU. CAN I HAVE HIM GO BACK TO THE PORTER OR DO YOU WANT ME TO WAIT TILL THE END? WE'LL WAIT TILL THE END. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UH, AGAIN, THERE WAS A POINT ABOUT LOADING AREAS. UM, SO WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO DO IS UTILIZING THE HISTORIC PATTERN OF, OF, UH, SERVICE THAT'S ACTUALLY ALWAYS BEEN AT THE SITE AND HOW THAT'S HANDLED BECAUSE OF THE, THE ODD SLOPES IN WHICH, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH WE CAN DO WITH THE GRAY CHANGES WITHIN OUR PROPERTY. UM, LARGE SCALE TRUCK DELIVERIES HAVE ALWAYS BEEN DELIVERED OFF OF 89 A AT AN EXISTING SERVICE ZONE THAT HAPPENS IN FRONT OF THE RETAIL AREA, KIND OF IN BETWEEN THE RETAIL AREA AND OUR, UM, HOTEL. SO WE'RE PROPOSING TO MAINTAIN THAT ACCESS. SMALLER TRUCKS HAVE TRADITIONALLY BEEN DELIVERED. UM, THEY DELIVER RIGHT UNDERNEATH THE ORCAS SHARE. HOWEVER, IN THE RENOVATION OF THE RETAIL BUILDING, UM, WE'RE RELOCATING, UH, KINDA LAUNDRY SERVICES AND, UH, ENGINEERING TO THE LOWEST LEVEL OF THE RETAIL BUILDING. SO THERE IS A, A, LIKE A B TWO, THERE'S A, THERE'S A BASEMENT UNDERNEATH TWO BASEMENTS UNDERNEATH THE RETAIL SPACE. ONE WILL BE OUR NEW, UH, SPA. AND THEN THE SECOND ONE WILL BE ALL THE SURFACE AREAS. SO THAT NEW DELIVERY AREA HAS ALWAYS BEEN PLANNED FOR THAT. AND THOSE TEND TO BE SMALLER TRUCKS. UM, SMALLER BOX PANEL TRUCKS THAT ARE KIND OF WITHIN 15 TO 20 FEET WIDE LONG, I GUESS THAT CAN NAVIGATE THE TURN INTO THE PROPERTY, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, ADMITTEDLY EXISTING, BUT IT'S AN EXISTING CONDITION THAT THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH YOU CAN DO. THERE WAS NO INTENTION OF PRO PROVIDING ANY DELIVERIES FROM ART BARN LANE, UM, JUST BECAUSE THAT IS NOT WHERE WE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S OTHER THAN TRASH PICKUP, THEY COULD POSSIBLY GO THROUGH THERE. UM, THE ONE THING THAT WE ARE DOING FOR ACCESS IS WE HAVE EASED ALL OF THE CORNERS WITHIN THE PROPERTY, UM, TO, FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE WATER AND SEWER DEVELOPMENT, THEIR TRUCKS TRYING TO GET DOWN TO THE WELL THAT IS IN THE FARTHER, UH, SOUTH, UH, EAST CORNER OF THE PROPERTY. SO WE'RE MAINTAINING THAT ACCESS, BUT IT ALSO HELPS WITH, UH, FIRETRUCK ACCESS AS WELL AS ANY LOADING AND UNLOADING THAT GOES IN THERE. SO ALL OF THE INTERNAL TRAFFIC PATTERNS ARE ALL MAINTAINED FOR LARGER SCALE TRUCKS IF SOMETHING DOES NEED TO GET IN THERE. SO ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT WE DO ACKNOWLEDGE IS THERE IS, UM, DEPENDING ON THE DEFINITION OF HEIGHT, UH, SOME CONCERNS OVER THE ADDED HEIGHT. AND I BELIEVE THE, UM, STATEMENT WAS THAT THE RESTAURANT DOES NOT MEET CODE. UM, WE'VE GONE BACK THROUGH IN AND REVISED OUR ANALYSIS TO DO THE PARALLEL PROJECTION, UH, UTILIZING EXISTING GRADE, UM, AND PROJECTED THAT UP. SO A IS THE 22 FOOT HEIGHT RESTRICTION. UM, B IS WHEN YOU APPLY ALL THE ALTERNATE STANDARDS THAT ARE AVAILABLE, WHICH ARE MULTIPLE BUILDINGS ON SITE. SO WE HAVE MULT MORE THAN, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE, THE THRESHOLD IS THREE BUILDINGS AND WE HAVE, UM, 27, UM, AS WELL AS THE LRV RATINGS AND THE UNRE RELIED RE UNRELIEVED PLANE, WHICH WE ARE SPECIFICALLY APPLYING [00:35:01] FOR THE RESTAURANT BECAUSE THIS IS THE NEW BUILDING THAT WE'RE ADDING. WE'RE NOT SEEING THE RESTAURANT AS AN ADDITION TO THE PROJECT. AND I THINK THIS MAY BE AN ODD KIND OF A CLARIFICATION, BUT THE RESTAURANT HAS NO, UM, PEDESTRIAN OR, UM, KIND OF MECHANICAL CONNECTION BETWEEN OUR BUILDING AND THE EXISTING STRUCTURE, THE NEW PROPOSED BUILDING AND THE EXISTING STRUCTURE. AND IT IS STRUCTURALLY INDEPENDENT. SO EFFECTIVELY IT ACTS LIKE A NUMBER OF THE OTHER BUILDINGS THAT ARE ON 89 A, WHICH ALL THE RETAIL BUILDINGS ARE ACROSS THE STREET, WHICH BECOMES A ZERO LOT LINE BUILDING. SO WHAT WE'D LIKE TO LOOK AT IT AS THE RESTAURANT AS ITS OWN ENTITY. AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT BY THE DEFINITIONS OF THE LDC, UM, AND THE EXCEPTIONS THAT ARE ALLOWABLE IN THE CODE, WE ACTUALLY DO MEET THE HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS. THE ONE AREA THAT YOU'LL SEE THAT BREAKS THE PLANE OF B, WHICH IS AN AREA CALLED C, UM, THERE IS AN EXTENSION THAT ALLOWS FOR ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES TO EXTEND ABOVE 10 FEET ABOVE THAT HEIGHT REQUIREMENT. THE DEFINITION AS LINKED IN THE LDC DOES REFER TO EAVES, CORNICES AND AWNINGS, WHICH WE FEEL THAT THAT LITTLE PROJECTION, WHICH HAPPENS TO BE JUST THE OVERHANG OVER THE, OUR BALCONY MEETS THAT DEFINITION. SO OUR ARGUMENT IS THAT THE NEW RESTAURANT DOES MEET THOSE REQUIREMENTS AS AS PROVIDED. AND I JUST WANNA 0.1, WE'RE TRYING TO GET THIS RESTAURANT SQUEEZED IN A SPACE, THE JORDAN DITCHES RIGHT THERE, WHICH WE WANT TO PRESERVE. WE'RE TRYING TO BUILD AN ART PLAZA. THERE'S NOT A LOT OF FLEXIBILITY. AND LIKE GOING BACK TO WHAT I SAID INITIALLY, WE'RE DEALING WITH AN EXISTING VERY COMPLEX MULTIFACETED PROJECT. SO I KEPT COMING BACK TO, LET'S, LET'S LOOK AT THIS IN CONTEXT. LET'S MAKE SURE WE'RE DELIVERING IN TOTALITY WHAT I THINK IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE CITY. SO THERE WAS ALSO A CONCERN OVER DIFFERENT GRADES IN THAT THE RESTAURANT ITSELF WAS OVER 40 FEET HIGH. THERE IS SOME CONFUSION IN THAT. THERE IS A QUIRK IN THE, UH, CONTOUR, WHICH AS RANDY JUST MENTIONED, THE JORDAN DITCH RUNS THROUGH THERE. SO THERE ARE ANOTHER NUMBER OF CONTOUR LINES. UM, CAN I USE THE POINTER? YES, YOU MAY. UH, RIGHT THROUGH THIS AREA RIGHT HERE THAT REPEAT, BECAUSE IT HAPPENS TO BE WHERE BOTH SIDES OF THE JORDAN JORDAN DITCH ARE ACTUALLY EQUAL SIZES OR EQUAL HEIGHTS. SO THAT IS THE AREA THAT WAS IN, UH, CONTENTION. AND THAT WOULD'VE IF, IF IT HAD, UH, WORKED OUT NORMALLY THERE WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, KIND OF AN IDEA THAT THIS WOULD BE AT 86 WOULD'VE, WHICH WOULD'VE PUT AT THAT LITTLE CORNER RIGHT THERE WOULD'VE BEEN AT 41. HOWEVER, DUE TO THE JORDAN DITCH, IT'S AT 40. SO WE DO FIT WITHIN THE CODE REQUIREMENTS. SO THE, THE OTHER THING THAT JUST, UM, WAS MENTIONED WITHIN THE LATEST REPORT, WHICH I FOUND INTERESTING, UM, WAS THAT THERE WAS A CONCERN THAT THE NEW POOL AREA THAT WE WAS SHOWN IN THE, UH, RENDERINGS, UM, EXTENDS THE OVERALL HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING BECAUSE OF ITS, I GUESS BECAUSE OF ITS EXPRESSION TO THE EXTERIOR. UM, IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN THE EXISTING POOL SHOULD ALSO HAVE THE SAME KIND OF, SHOULD BE ALSO REVIEWED IN THAT WAY BECAUSE THE EXISTING POOL IS ALSO CONNECTED BY THE SIMILAR. SO OUR, OUR PROPOSED POOL IS OFFSET THE EXISTING BUILDING BY A LANDSCAPE AREA AS WELL AS SOME RETAINING WALLS. THE EXISTING POOL DOES THE SAME THING. UM, SO THE DIFFERENCE THOUGH IS WITH OUR PROPOSED ADDITION AND CHANGE TO THE BUILDING, WE ARE PROPOSING TO REMOVE THIS FUNNY LITTLE CAP THAT'S OVER THE, UM, OVER THE EXISTING MAIN ELEVATOR, WHICH HAS, AND THE KIND OF THE, THE, UH, UH, TILE ROOF, WHICH AGAIN WILL GO AWAY WITH THE, UH, POCO SHARE. SO WE WANNA REMOVE THAT AESTHETIC TO BRING IT MORE INTO A SEDONA AESTHETIC. AND THEN WE'RE MOVING THE POOL FROM WAY DOWN HERE TO ACTUALLY CLOSER TO THE, UM, TO THE FINISHED FLOOR OF OUR FIRST FLOOR OF THE, THE HOTEL THAT HAS THE BENEFIT OF ACTUALLY LOWERING THE OVERALL HEIGHT IF WE'RE LOOKING AT THE OVERALL HEIGHT FROM TOP OF THE BUILDING TO THE EXPRESSION OF THE POOL BY 17 FEET. SO OUR POSITION IS THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY REDUCING THE NON-CONFORMITY AS OPPOSED TO WHAT WAS, WHAT WAS MENTIONED IN THE DOCUMENT AS WE WERE MAKING THE NON-CONFORMITY WORSE. SO WE FEEL THAT THAT IS A, YOU KNOW, DEFENDABLE POSITION BECAUSE WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS WE ARE ADDING VALUE TO A, TO A PROJECT. AND WE FEEL THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS, UM, WE FEEL ONE OF THESE IS A SEDONA BUILDING AND THE EXISTING IS NOT. [00:40:01] IF YOU LOOK AT THE COLOR, YOU LOOK AT THE, UH, DETAILING, YOU LOOK AT THE OPENNESS, UM, WE FEEL THAT ALL OF THE MOVES THAT WE'RE MAKING IN THE NEW ADDITION TAKE A PROJECT THAT, AS RANDY HAS MENTIONED, HAS BEEN, UM, YOU KNOW, NOT THE MOST BEAUTIFUL BUILDING IN TOWN. IT ALSO IS THE LARGEST BUILDING IN TOWN. SO OUR, OR AT LEAST ON THAT SIDE OF THE STREET IN TERMS OF BLOCKING THE VIEWS. SO WE WANNA DO OUR BEST TO IMPROVE THAT EXPERIENCE FOR THE GUESTS, UM, WHICH WOULD BE CHANGING THE POCHE SO THAT IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE IT'S A COMPLETE BLOCK OFF. UM, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, BRINGING THE OVERALL DETAILING OF THE, OF THE PROJECT TO SOMETHING MORE CONSISTENT WITH WHAT SEDONA IS AND WHAT THE ARCHITECTURE OF SEDONA IS. SO LAST, I'M, I'M GONNA SAY ONE OTHER THING TOO IS THAT ONE OF MY PASSIONS HAS BEN AND I MENTIONED IT EARLIER, IS I WANT TO DRAW MORE PEOPLE TO THE FAR NORTH END OF UPTOWN. AND I WAS HERE SUNDAY, WE WERE PACKED, EVERYTHING WAS PACKED SUNDAY. SO I TOOK MY FRIENDS AND WE VISITED THE ART CENTER, WE VISITED THE TRADING POST AND THEY WERE ALMOST EMPTY. SO PART OF THE IDEA IS WE WANNA DO SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE GO, WHAT IS THAT? I WANT TO GO THERE AND I WANNA SPEND MONEY. SO I THINK WHAT, WHAT RANDY'S REFERRING TO IS OUR NEW PLAZA THAT WOULD LINK OUR PROJECT TO THE, UM, THE SEDONA ART CENTER. THIS GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A KIND OF A CO-PROGRAM WHERE OUR RESTAURANT CAN CATER ANYTHING THAT COMES OUT OF THE SEDONA, UM, ART CENTER. AND THEN AS MENTIONED DURING, YOU KNOW, EVENTS LIKE GOING ON THIS WEEK, THIS WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, A KEY LOCATION THAT WOULD BE, UM, A MAJOR BENEFIT TO BOTH PROJECTS. AND, AND THAT IS, I MEAN, WE COULD CLOSE IT OFF FOR PRIVATE EVENTS OR THE SED ART CENTER, BUT OTHERWISE IT'S AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC. SO THAT WAS ANOTHER BIG THING I WANTED TO ACCOMPLISH. I WANTED A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO GO OUT AND DO THEIR INSTAGRAM PHOTOS AND BE IN THAT PLACE. SO ANOTHER UH, POINT THAT WAS MENTIONED THAT WE ARE IN NONCONFORMITY IS BUILDING TRANSPARENCY. UM, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE I THINK THERE'S A DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF THE INTENT OF THE CODE VERSUS THE LETTER OF THE CODE. UM, SO I BELIEVE THE INTENT, WHICH MAKES SENSE OF ANY BUILDING THEIR THEIR FIRST FLOOR THAT, UH, OPENS UP ONTO A MAJOR THOROUGHFARE HAS TO HAVE A LIMITED OR A MINIMUM TRANSPARENCY OF 30%. SO OUR FIRST FLOOR THAT BORDERS ON 89 A IS BELOW GRADE. SO OBVIOUSLY THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. OUR SECOND FLOOR, WHICH IS A LEV, OUR LEVEL THAT THE LOBBY IS ON, UM, LOOKS DIRECTLY INTO AN EIGHT FOOT HIGH RETAINING WALL PLUS AN ADDITION OF, UH, 30 OR THREE FOOT HIGH RETAIN OR KIND OF, UM, GUARDRAIL. SO HAVING A 30% UH, EXPRESSION ON THAT FACADE DOES OUR PROJECT, NO BENEFITS BECAUSE WE'LL BE LOOKING DIRECTLY INTO RETAIN WALL AND IT DOESN'T DO ANY BENEFIT TO ANYBODY ON 89 A LOOKING YET. HOWEVER, WHEN WE MAKE THE CHANGES IN INTERVENTIONS AT THE NEW PORTIER, WHEN WE'VE NOW OPENED UP THE CENTER ELEMENT, WHICH IS WHERE OUR NEW MEETING SPACE IS, THE FLOOR THAT DOES HAVE THE MOST EXPOSURE ON 89 A IS OUR THIRD FLOOR THAT NOW BASED ON THAT NEW CHANGE AND BY REMOVING THE PORTIER IS NOW OVER 30% OPEN. SO WE DO MEET, AGAIN, IT MAY NOT BE THE LETTER OF THE CODE, BUT IT IS THE INTENT OF THE CODE BY OPENING UP THE EXPRESSION 2 89 A. THE FLOORS ABOVE THAT HAVE ALSO BEEN OPENED UP A BIT. AND SO WE'RE MEETING ALL OF THE TRANSPARENCIES FOR THOSE FLOORS ABOVE. UH, THE ONLY, I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, IS WHETHER OR NOT A FLOOR THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANY EXPOSURE TO 89 A, WHICH WOULD BE THE FIRST, OUR SECOND FLOOR, WHICH OPENS ONTO THE RETAINING WALL AGAIN, WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S THE FLOOR THAT SHOULD HAVE 30%, UH, TRANSPARENCY. OOPS. SO AN ADDITIONAL COMMENT WAS THE UN LEAF PLAINS. CURRENTLY THE BUILDING HAS A SORT OF AN ITALIANATE DETAILING THAT HAS BEEN APPLIED OVER PROBABLY A COUPLE DECADES AGO. UM, IT'S OUR FEELING THAT THAT SORT OF APPLIQUE OF AN EIGHT DESIGN KIND OF GOES AGAINST THE DREAM ACT OR THE DREAM MANUAL AND WHERE IT ACTUALLY HIGHLIGHTS AN AREA WHERE IT SAYS THAT, UM, UH, STYLES THAT ARE AREN'T OF THE AIR OF THE AREA OR OF SORT OF CARTOONISH ELEMENTS SHOULD NOT BE APPLIED TO BUILDINGS. SO WHAT WE'RE PRO PRODUC WE'RE PROPOSING TO DO IS STRIP THAT DOWN, AND AGAIN, LIKE I MENTIONED, MAKE THIS A MUCH MORE SEDONA, UH, LOOKING BUILDING. HOWEVER, BECAUSE THIS IS BY THE DEFINITION EXPANDING THE UNRELIEVED PLANES BY REMOVING THAT SIX INCH BAND, THIS FACADE APPARENTLY NO LONGER, UM, MEETS CODE. AND I THINK OUR [00:45:01] ARGUMENT IS THAT WE DON'T FEEL THAT THAT ACTUALLY MEETS THE INTENT OF THE, UM, OF THE CODE BECAUSE THE OVERALL BUILDING, TO ME AT LEAST, AND I'M, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY THIS IS I'M BIASED, IS MUCH MORE OF A SEDONA PROJECT THAN WHAT IS EXISTING THERE. SO I GUESS THAT'S THE QUESTION IS WHETHER OR NOT, UM, A 48 SQUARE FOOT ADDITION BY THE REMOVAL OF A, UM, ARCHITECTURAL DETAILING THAT DOESN'T FIT THE STYLE AND CHARACTER OF SEDONA, IF WHETHER OR NOT THAT IS SOMETHING TO REJECT A PROJECT OVER. AND LASTLY, ONE OF THE CONCERNS WAS, UH, A SPECIFIC LIGHT FIXTURE, UM, BECAUSE IT WAS, IT HAS AN UP AND A DOWN LIGHT. UM, I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT JUST ITS LOCATION HAPPENS TO BE AT THE ENTRY TO THE NEW RESTAURANT, WHICH HAPPENS TO BE UNDER A FULLY CANOPY LOCATION. AND BECAUSE IT IS COMPLETELY CAPTURING ALL OF THAT UPLIGHT, THIS MEETS DARK COAT OR DARK SKY REQUIREMENTS, UM, BECAUSE OF ITS IMPLEMENTATION, NOT NECESSARILY BECAUSE OF THE LIGHT FIXTURE. SO I GUESS THAT'S OUR DEFENSE OF THE LIGHTING. LASTLY, THE ONE AREA THAT, UM, I DO AGREE THAT WE DON'T MEET THE LDC IS OUR LIGHT SIGNAGE PACKAGE. UM, ONE THING THAT AS, AS, UH, RANDY MENTIONED AS HOTELS HAVE QUITE A DEVELOPMENT PERIOD, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IS BRANDING. UH, WHAT WE'VE DONE IS TRY TO LOCATE ALL OF THE SIGNS AS WE NEED THEM AND DEFINE THEIR AREAS BASED ON WHAT WAS REQUIRED BY CODE. HOWEVER, WE'VE NOT DEFINED THE ACTUAL SIGNAGE BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE BRANDING IS YET. UM, THE SPECIFICS OF WHAT THOSE SIGNAGE SIGNS LOOK LIKE, UH, THE LETTERING, THE NAME, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE ALL THINGS THAT ARE STILL IN THE WORKS. AND IF WE WERE TO PRODUCE A DOCUMENT THAT STATED SOMETHING, IT WOULD ALL BE MADE UP, UM, AND LIKELY WOULD BE UN INACCURATE OR INACCURATE. SO WHAT WE'VE DONE IS DONE A MORE GENERIC SUBMITTAL THAT LOCATES ALL THE SIGNS AND LOCATES AND NOTES THEIR AREAS AS REQUIRED. UM, AND SO THIS IS BASICALLY JUST TRYING TO AGAIN, MEET THE INTENT OF THE, OF THE CODE, UM, AND MAYBE NOT HITTING ALL THE LITTLE SPECIFICS THAT ARE IN THERE. SO THAT'S IT. THAT'S IT. YEAH. SO, UM, I'M NOT GONNA, THESE, I'VE MADE THESE THREE POINTS ALREADY. UM, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY FEEL STRONGLY AND WE'VE WORKED VERY, VERY HARD FOR MANY YEARS TO TRY TO TAKE THIS EXISTING EDIFICE AND TURN IT INTO SOMETHING WE COULD ALL BE PROUD OF TO DO SO SENSITIVE TO WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO THE CITY OF SONA, WHICH IS VISITOR REVENUE AND WHAT IS NOT VALUABLE IN THE CITY, WHICH ARE THE ACTUAL VISITORS. SO, UH, WE'VE TRIED TO ACCOMPLISH THAT AS WELL. IF, UM, YOU KNOW, I COULD GO DOWN A, A CHECKLIST OF, OF, OF THESE ITEMS, BUT, YOU KNOW, UM, WE CHECK SO MANY BOXES ON THIS PROJECT, UM, AND WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE HONESTLY A BIT FRUSTRATED ON SOME OF THESE TECHNICAL ISSUES WHERE WE THINK WE HAVE VERY DEFENSIBLE POSITIONS AND WE'VE JUST GOT INSTALLED. SO IT IS NOT MY INTENT EVER TO BRING A PROJECT TO THE COMMISSION WHERE CARRIE AND I WEREN'T IN SYNC AND I CALLED HER AND APOLOGIZED. I GO, I HAVE TO, I HAVE TO BRING IT FORWARD. WE THINK THIS IS THE RIGHT PROJECT. UM, I WANT TO JUST HIGHLIGHT, YOU KNOW, NOT ONLY ARE WE, YOU KNOW, WORKING WITH THE ART, WE THINK THE ART CENTERS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT. YOU KNOW, ONE OF MY MISSIONS IS TO GET MORE ART VISITORS 'CAUSE THEY SPEND MONEY, THEY STAY A LONG TIME AND THEY'RE VERY RESPECTFUL. SO THAT'S WHY WE'VE INVESTED THIS. WE CONTINUE, I'VE GIVEN THEM ALREADY OVER $85,000 SINCE WE AS THEIR PARTNER, WE HOST THEM FOR THE PLANET AIR FESTIVAL. UM, I I, I THINK WE HAVE BONAFIDES AS AN HONEST COMMUNITY PARTNER AND HOPE THAT BRINGS SOME WEIGHT TO YOUR DECISION MAKING. UM, UH, NEXT SLIDE IS, YOU KNOW, WORKFORCE HOUSING. WE'RE UNDER NO OBLIGATION BECAUSE WE'RE ZONE LODGING AND BUILDING EXACTLY BY RIGHT. BUT I AM NOT INSENSITIVE TO THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A HOUSING AND WORKFORCE PROBLEM. AND YOU KNOW, I HAD A BIGGER NUMBER IN MIND AT ONCE, BUT THIS PROCESS EACH AWAY AT THE ECONOMICS, BUT I'M STILL CONTRIBUTING IN QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS TO THE WORKFORCE HOUSING FUND VOLUNTARILY. UM, ONE BACK. YEAH. AND THEN JUST TO GO DOWN THE LIST, YOU KNOW, SO WE TALKED ABOUT THE, WE TALKED ABOUT THOSE CONTAINERS AND HOW VALUABLE THEY ARE TO MEETING THE OBJECTIVE OF THE CITY. WE HAVE A SUSTAINABLE BUILDING WITH LEAD CERTIFICATION, VERDE, UH, UH, VERDE RIVER, UH, FRIENDLY DEVELOPMENT. UM, AND WE AND ENSEMBLE AS AN OPERATOR, WE HAVE OUR OWN SUSTAINABLE, UM, VISITOR PROGRAM AS WELL. VERY SENSITIVE TO DARK SKY. I THINK WE'VE DEMONSTRATED THAT. AND I'M GONNA [00:50:01] INVITE SOMEBODY TO COME UP WHO LOVES THIS PLACE ALMOST AS MUCH AS I DO. CHRISTINA, WOULD YOU COME UP? SO WE DISCOVERED THIS TREE ON THE SITE, UM, AND WE BECAME AWARE THAT IT IS THE LAST REMAINING ORIGINAL JORDAN APPLE TREE. AND UM, AND IT IS ALMOST THAT. UM, AND I'M GONNA INVITE CHRISTINA TO INTRODUCE HERSELF AND TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT. GOOD EVENING. UH, CHAIRMAN, VICE CHAIR COMMISSIONERS. THANKS FOR THANKS FOR THE INVITE. THANKS FOR HAVING ME. UM, MY NAME'S CHRISTINA KLUWER. I'M FROM FLAGSTAFF, ARIZONA. I WAS BORN AND RAISED THERE. UM, LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY FOR ME. I'M A CERTIFIED ARBORIST, CERTIFIED CLIMBER SPECIALIST, UTILITY SPECIALIST AND INTERNATIONAL HAZARD TREE ASSESSOR THROUGH THE INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY OF HARBOR CULTURE. UM, I HAVE 24 YEARS EXPERIENCE AND I'M THE PRESIDENT FOR THE ARIZONA COMMUNITY TREE COUNCIL, THE STATE OF ARIZONA. SO VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT TREES. UM, RANDY HAD GIVEN ME A CALL, UH, ABOUT A TREE THAT WAS IN PRETTY BAD SHAPE. AND WHEN I MET HIM THERE, HE WAS KIND OF TEARY-EYED BECAUSE I TOLD HIM THIS TREE HAD NOT BEEN TAKEN CARE OF IN SUCH A LONG TIME. I WASN'T QUITE SURE THAT IT WAS EYE. UM, OVER ABOUT TWO YEARS NOW OF PRETTY CONSISTENT CARE. UM, A LOT OF FUNDING FROM RANDY AND JUST NONSTOP SUPPORT AND PHONE CALLS. UM, THE PHOTO THERE ON THE VERY LEFT WAS ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO WHEN I FIRST LOOKED AT IT. YOU CAN SEE IT HAD VERY LITTLE GREEN. UM, TWO OUTTA THE FOUR STEMS WERE COMPLETELY DEAD. THERE WAS NO REVIVING IT. AND FOR THE RECORD IT WAS DUE TO THAT, UM, THAT JORDAN WASH BEING THAT CANAL BEING CUT OFF. IT HAD NO WATER SOURCE. UM, IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY ON THESE, YOU KNOW, THE JORDANS CAME HERE FROM, HE KIND OF SPARKED MY INTEREST. SO I DID SOME LOOK IN, YOU KNOW, AROUND 1901 TO 1903 AND THE ORCHARD STARTED TO BE PLANTED SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 1928 AND 1930. SO IF YOU DO THE MATH ON THAT, WE ALMOST HAVE POTENTIALLY A HUNDRED YEAR OLD CENTENNIAL TREE. AND THAT WOULD'VE NEVER BEEN REALLY FULLY IDENTIFIED WITHOUT THE HELP OF RANDY WITHOUT THE CONCERN FOR COMMUNITY AND WITHOUT THE CONCERN FOR HISTORY AND THE DEDICATION TO MAKING SURE THAT THE RIGHT PEOPLE ARE NOW TAKING CARE OF THE TREE THAT UNDERSTAND TREE BIOLOGY. UM, SO PHOTO NUMBER TWO, I TOOK SOME SHOOTS FROM IT. UM, SOME CLIPPINGS PROPAGATED THEM. I HAVE 17 THAT SURVIVED AND I'LL BE COMING BACK IN APRIL TO TAKE ABOUT ANOTHER 30 SO I CAN CONTINUE, UM, GRAFTING AND, AND GROWING TREES FROM THE ORIGINAL STOCK. THAT'S HOW THEY'RE STARTED ANYWAY GENERALLY. UM, SO RANDY CAN USE THOSE FOR HIS PROJECT. HE'S GONNA BE PLANTING THOSE ALL OVER ON THE PROPERTY TO CONTINUE KIND OF THE HERITAGE OF THE JORDAN, UH, THE JORDAN FAMILY THAT STARTED EVERYTHING HERE WITH THE ORCHARD. AND ON THE VERY RIGHT HAND SIDE, YOU HAVE A PICTURE FROM A COUPLE MONTHS AGO AFTER ALL OF OUR HARD WORK AND RUNNING HOSES ACROSS PARKING LOTS, DOING SOME UNORTHODOX THINGS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GOT GOOD WATER SOURCE TO, TO THE TREE AND SOME FERTILIZING COMPONENTS. UM, IT PRODUCED SOME APPLES. HALF OF THE TREE WAS ABLE TO BE SAVED. I HAD TO TRIM SOME OF THE, THE DEAD OUTTA THAT HALF. BUT I WAS ALSO ABLE TO TAKE A LARGE CHUTE THAT AT, AT THE TIME TWO YEARS AGO, WASN'T QUITE AS LARGE, BUT MAINTAIN THAT, REMOVE EVERYTHING AROUND IT TO WHERE WHEN THIS TREE EVENTUALLY DOES SUCCUMB TO AGE OR ELEMENTS, UM, THERE WILL BE A CONTINUATION OF THAT TREE BECAUSE IT'S FROM THE SAME ROOT BALL. SO WE HAVE A TREE THAT'S ABOUT THIS BIG AROUND COMING OUT OF THAT SAME ROOT BALL TO CONTINUE ON LIVING. UM, YOU KNOW, FROM THE ORIGINAL. IT'S THE LAST ONE THAT'S LEFT. SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. I JUST WANTED TO SHARE THAT STORY 'CAUSE YOU DON'T SEE THAT KIND OF DEDICATION FROM EVERYONE. THANK YOU, CHRISTINA. THANK YOU. HOPEFULLY THAT WASN'T TOO LONG. WE'RE DONE. DOES THAT WRAP PUT UP WRAP? DOES THAT WRAP UP YOUR PRESENTATION? IT DOES. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT. UH, I'LL BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION NOW FOR QUESTIONS OF, UM, STAFF. JOEL, WOULD YOU LIKE TO START WITH STAFF OR WITH THE, UH, APPLICANT? YOU, ARE YOU GOOD BOTH WAYS, CARRIE? YEAH. OKAY. STAFF AND APPLICANT. I JUST WAS WONDERING IF I COULD, IF WE COULD PLEASE GO OVER THE PORTER SLIDE. I GOT LOST WITH THE MULTIPLE LINES, SO THAT'S WHY I ASKED FOR A POINTER. SURE. OKAY. SO CAN YOU JUST REPEAT WHAT YOU SAID WITH THE POINTER? ALRIGHT, SO WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO DO IS, SO THAT STRUCTURE RIGHT THERE, THAT IS THE EXISTING SUPPORT FOR THE EXISTING FOR SHARE, WE'RE NOT PLANNING ON MOVING THAT AT ALL. UM, NOR DO WE HAVE MUCH CHOICE BECAUSE THERE ISN'T A LOT OF ACCESS THROUGH HERE. THIS IS BASICALLY A ONE WAY DRIVE BECAUSE [00:55:01] OF THE WIDTH OF OUR EXISTING ARRIVAL. SO WE, THERE IS A 15 FOOT SETBACK THAT OCCURS THAT IS THAT PRETTY MUCH EVERY BUILDING THAT WE HAVE ON THE SITE VIOLATES THAT SETBACK. UH, BOTH THE RETAIL BUILDING AND THE NORTHERN, UH, HOTEL BUILDING, UM, BOTH VIOLATE THAT AS WELL AS THE EXISTING PORT SHARE. SO WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO DO IS, IS BASICALLY UTILIZE A GRANDFATHERED IN STRUCTURAL ELEMENT, BUT FLATTEN THIS, THAT YELLOW LINE RIGHT THERE, THAT'S THAT EXISTING POISE SHARE THAT IS THAT BASEBALL HAT THAT'S PULLED OVER YOUR EYES. UM, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO REMOVE AND THEN ADD IN A LOWER POISE SHARE THAT IS FLAT, THAT IS THEN UTILIZED AS A DECK FOR THE NEW PHOENIX SPACE THAT'S RIGHT HERE. THIS IS AN EXISTING ROOM. UM, THAT AS YOU CAN IMAGINE WITH THAT FORSURE KIND OF GOING OVER IT ISN'T A GREAT EXPERIENCE, UM, WITH VERY LITTLE VIEW OUT OF IT. SO NOW THAT WE GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO OPEN UP THAT VIEW SPACE, WE NOW HAVE A BENEFIT TO THE PRO, TO THE PROJECT AS WELL AS LIKE I MENTIONED, THE TRANSPARENCY AND THE WAY THAT IT NOW INTERACTS WITH 89 A IN A WAY THAT IT DIDN'T BEFORE. GREAT, THANK YOU. I I'D LIKE TO ALSO ADD JUST FOR YOUR INFORMATION, WHATEVER'S DARK GRAY IS NEW. CORRECT? THANK YOU. THAT'S THE WAY ARCHITECTS DRAW . ANYTHING ELSE, JOE? I JUST WANTED CLARIFICATION. OKAY, I'LL, I'LL THANK YOU. I'LL COME BACK LATER. DON'T WORRY. SARAH. UH, QUESTIONS ONLY. OKAY. UM, I'M CURIOUS, CARRIE, ARE YOU HEARING NEW INFORMATION TONIGHT? UM, YES. OKAY. SO A NUMBER OF THE THINGS THAT THEY BROUGHT UP OF HOW THEY BELIEVE THEY MEET THE CODE WERE NOT INCLUDED IN THE APPLICATION PACKET THAT I REVIEWED. RIGHT. OKAY. THAT'S, I WAS REALLY CURIOUS ABOUT THAT. UM, AND THEN ALSO YOU MENTIONED NOT PURSUING A VARIANCE AND I'M CURIOUS WHY, I MEAN, LOTS OF TIMES THERE ARE SITUATIONS WHERE A SITE CAN'T MEET CODE AND IN THAT CASE A VARIANCE MAY OR MAY NOT BE WARRANTED IN ORDER TO MAKE A PROJECT COME TO COME TO FRUITION. SO I'M JUST CURIOUS WHY YOU DIDN'T PURSUE THAT AVENUE. WE, WE DON'T THINK WE NEED ONE. WE THINK WE'RE IN COMPLIANCE. A AGAIN, YOU'RE DEALING WITH THE, IT'S NOT A BRAND NEW BUILDING. YEAH. SO IT, IT CAN'T, SO THE INTERPRETATION IS, IS COMPLICATED. RIGHT. OKAY. I'M SORT OF ON THE SAME PATH. DO I LIKE THE NEW VERSION? YES. DO I LOVE THOSE STORAGE CONTAINERS? YES. MY ONLY CONCERN IS WHEN WE, YOU KNOW, READ THE PACKET, IT'S LIKE, WHAT, THIS WAS DENIED WHAT, AND THEN YOU START GOING THROUGH IT AND IT DOESN'T MEET AS LAID OUT TO US. UM, THE LDC AND I WONDERED ABOUT A VARIANCE. I WONDERED ABOUT, I WONDERED WHY YOU WERE COMING TO US, YOU KNOW, WE'RE COMING TO YOU BECAUSE THE CITY DOESN'T HAVE A PROCESS FOR THIS KIND OF DISCUSSION WITH STAFF AND RESOLVE ISSUES. IF WE, WE WOULD'VE BEEN GOING BACK AND FORTH FOR AN UNKNOWN AMOUNT OF TIME. I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. THE TRAFFIC REPORT. THERE WAS A QUESTION. SO WELL, WE'LL GIVE YOU THE CORRECTED THING. OKAY. YOU HAVE TO START ALL OVER AGAIN. SO, UH, IT IT, IT IS AN IMPO AND I'M NOT BLAMING ANYBODY BECAUSE EVERYBODY HAS TO OPERATE WITHIN THE PROCESS. WE'VE TRIED TO MAKE THESE POINTS JUST STAFF AND WE JUST HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET THE KIND OF CONSENSUS AROUND IT OR UNDERSTANDING AROUND IT. SO WE THINK WE'RE ON VERY DEFENSIBLE POSITIONS OR WE WOULD NOT BE IN FRONT OF YOU ASKING FOR APPROVAL. AND I WONDERED IF YOU WERE AWARE OF HOUSE BILL 24 47, WHICH MID-DECEMBER IS GONNA GO INTO EFFECT AND WE WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO DO DEVELOPMENT REVIEWS. THEY WILL STRICTLY BE DONE BY STAFF. UM, AND SO I THOUGHT, WELL, MAYBE HE'S TRYING TO GET US TO NO, I WAS NOT AWARE OF THAT. YEAH, WELL THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT'S COMING DOWN THE PIKE. AND SO TONIGHT WE HAVE TO DECIDE, DO WE AGREE WITH YOUR INTERPRETATION? WE DON'T USUALLY HAVE TO MAKE THOSE KINDS OF DECISIONS RIGHT ON THE SPOT. RIGHT? DO WE SUGGEST, UH, LOOKING AT A VARIANCE? DO WE ASK FOR A CONTINUANCE OF INTEREST OR IS A WAY TO APPROVE IT WITH STIPULATIONS? SO IT'S PROVE, BUT GIVE US THE FULL SIGNAGE PACKAGE, RESOLVE THAT ISSUE SO THAT WE DON'T END UP IN A FOREVER AND EVER ENDLESS LOOP PROCESS. I, I I GET THAT. UM, SO I GUESS FOR ME, IT'S GONNA KIND OF GO BACK TO EITHER CARRIE OR IT'S GONNA GO BACK TO KURT MM-HMM . TO ASK US, FIRST OF ALL, DO YOU, CAN YOU SEE WHAT HE'S SAYING NOW? NOW SAYING, [01:00:01] AND, AND DOES IT, UM, IS IT COLORABLE AS THEY SAY? OR DO I WOULD STILL DISAGREE WITH A NUMBER OF THEM, I THINK FROM MY INITIAL REACTION, BUT AGAIN, UM, WHEN WE HAD TALKED BEFORE, THEIR POSITION WAS THEY COULDN'T MEET HEIGHT STANDARDS AND NOW THEIR PRESENTATION HAS SAID THAT THEY THINK THEY DO. SO I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT WHAT THEY'RE, WHAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY SHOWING AND DO A DIFFERENT EVALUATION, WHICH AGAIN, WAS NOT PART OF THE EVALUATION THAT RESULTED IN THE STAFF REPORT THAT'S BEFORE YOU TONIGHT. MM-HMM . THAT MAKES OUR JOB HARD. NEW INFORMATION. YEAH. YEAH. THAT MAKES OUR OUR JOB HARD, HARD TONIGHT. RIGHT? 'CAUSE IT WOULD'VE BEEN GREAT FOR THIS CONVERSATION TO HAPPEN BEFORE COMING. I, I COMPLETELY AGREE. RIGHT. BUT WE WERE NOT ALLOWED TO SUBMIT ANYTHING WITHOUT STARTING THE PROCESS OVER AGAIN. I WOULD LIKE ALSO LIKE TO ADD THAT, UM, THE INCLUSION OF THE POOL AS PART OF THE HEIGHT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS BROUGHT UP NEW. THAT WAS NOT A DEFINITION THAT WAS EVER DISCUSSED IN OUR OTHER, UM, SUBMITTALS. SO WHAT WE, WHAT HAD WE HAD PROPOSED TO DO WAS PROVIDE BASICALLY A CLARITY FOR THE LAST, I GUESS, SUBMITTAL THAT TOUCHED ON A LOT OF THE THINGS, THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE STILL OUT. YEAH. UM, WHAT WE WERE TOLD IS WE WOULD HAVE TO THEN RESUBMIT AND WAIT ANOTHER COUPLE OF MONTHS EFFECTIVELY TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS AGAIN TO DO THAT, WHICH IS A PROBLEM IN TERMS OF DEVELOPMENT SCHEDULE. AND JUST IN TERMS OF TIMING. WELL, IT'S, AND IT'S A PROBLEM BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO LOOK AT IT COME, YOU KNOW, MID-DECEMBER . SO I DIDN'T KNOW THAT PART, BUT YEAH. YEAH. YEAH. SO, UH, IT IS AN IMPORTANT DECISION TONIGHT AND I'M MM-HMM . SCRATCHING MY HEAD. . MM-HMM . I MM-HMM . I, I JUST WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I, I, I KNEW WHAT WE WERE COMING, BRINGING BEFORE YOU WOULD NOT BE EASY, BUT WE THINK IT'S IMPORTANT AND VALUABLE ENOUGH TO BRING IT TO THE BODY. I GET CONCERNED WHEN I HEAR THINGS LIKE, THE GOAL POST WAS MOVING, THE STARTING OVER AGAIN WAS BEING ASKED OF YOU. UM, AND IT CONCERNS ME THAT WHAT STAFF ASKED YOU TO PROVIDE IS NOT PART OF OUR PACKET, BUT THAT WE'RE GETTING ALL KINDS OF NEW INFORMATION AND YOUR INTERPRETATION TONIGHT. SO I, I, I WANNA ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE STATED YOU HAVE DIFFICULTY WITH THE PROCESSES THAT, UM, WE HAVE IN PLACE. YOU HAVE DISAGREEMENTS ABOUT INTERPRETATIONS OF CODE, BUT TYPICALLY TO EVERY PROPOSAL WE'VE SEEN, THOSE THINGS ARE WORKED OUT BEFORE THEY COME TO THE COMMISSION. WE DON'T GET A LOT OF NEW INFORMATION WITHOUT STAFF ANALYSIS, AND WE'RE NOT PUT INTO A POSITION OF NEGOTIATING TERMS OF YEAH. OF, UM, OF YOUR PROPOSAL. IT, I THINK IT'S DIFFICULT BOTH WAYS, WHAT YOU'RE ASKING OF US TONIGHT. UM, AND, UM, HOW WE CAN APPROACH THAT FAIRLY, HOW WE CAN ACKNOWLEDGE THE GOOD ELEMENTS OF THIS PROJECT, UM, AND WORK WITH YOU IN A, A WAY THAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR A CITY AND A DEVELOPER TO WORK. SO I THINK WE'RE AT, WE'RE AT A DISADVANTAGE HERE, UM, WITH THE WAY THIS HAS GONE. UM, AND YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE, UM, GRIEVANCES. UM, BUT I HAVE TO NOTE THAT, UM, THIS DOESN'T, THIS DIDN'T COME TO US IN THE WAY THAT WE ARE NORMALLY PREPARED TO ACT AND DISCUSS, UH, A PROJECT. WELL, WELL, I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY IT WAS, UH, BEING RECOMMENDED THAT IT, IT BE DENIED WHEN I FIRST LOOKED AT IT. UM, AND I STILL CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY IT'S BEING RECOMMENDED THAT IT BE DENIED. UM, I GUESS I'M SUBJECT TO, UM, TAKING A KIND OF A LIBERAL OR A PROGRESSIVE VIEW OF THE LDC. MAYBE THAT'S MY FAULT. UM, I APPRECIATE THE INFORMATION THAT YOU GAVE US TONIGHT, BECAUSE I DIDN'T READ ANY OF THAT IN A PACKET. SO, UM, THE ONLY OTHER THING I'M GONNA SAY IS, IS THAT TRULY UGLY BUILDING UPTOWN? AND THIS LOOKS A WHOLE LOT BETTER. UH, I THINK I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT . UM, I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS. HEY, HANUKAH, ARE YOU STILL THERE? YES. CAN YOU GUYS HEAR ME? YEAH. UM, ARE YOU ALL GOOD [01:05:01] WITH THE TRAFFIC THING? YES. AND IF I MAY HAVE A CHANCE TO, UM, CLARIFY. SO THE ONLY REASON WHY WE DIDN'T ACCEPT THE VERSION THAT YOU SEE IN YOUR PACKET, EMPHASIS ON THAT VERSION, IS BECAUSE THERE WAS ONE STATEMENT, LIKE ONE SENTENCE THAT I DISAGREED WITH OR THAT THEY INTERPRETED ONE WAY I INTERPRETED THE OTHER WAY. UM, AND SO JUST LIKE HOW, YOU KNOW, YOU WOULDN'T WANNA SIGN A LETTER OR A DOCUMENT THAT YOU DIDN'T FULLY BELIEVE IN JOHN HANCOCK STYLE. I DIDN'T WANT TO ACCEPT A DOCUMENT THAT WAS, THAT I SLIGHTLY DISAGREED WITH THAT. JUST ONE, ONE SENTENCE. UM, SO I DID TALK TO KIMLEY HORN. WE ARE ON THE SAME PAGE, BUT IT CAME DOWN TO THIS TIME LIMIT. LIKE IT'S, IT'S AS SIMPLE AS FIXING THIS ONE SENTENCE AND STAMPING IT AND, UM, BUT NOT ABLE TO UPLOAD IT BY THIS MEETING. COOL. THANK YOU. AND THANKS FOR BEING HERE. WHILE YOU'RE NOT HERE, UM, I HAVE MASSING QUESTIONS 'CAUSE I JUST MM-HMM . IT HURTS MY BRAIN. SO THE UNRELIEVED PLANES, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PAPER MACHE A GIANT THING TOO, HYPOTHETICALLY, NOT REALLY PAPER, BUT WE NEED A THING TO MAKE IT UNRELIEVED. THAT'S THE NORTH AND SOUTH, CORRECT? NO, JUST THE SOUTH. JUST THE SOUTH. UH, WELL, IT IS THE NORTH AND THE SOUTH, HOWEVER, IT'S THE, IT'S MITIGATED ON THE NORTH SIDE WITH AN ELEVATOR. GOT IT. SO WE DO HAVE ELEMENTS THAT, AND AGAIN, THIS IS SORT OF WHERE THE LDC UH, IS IN, UM, CONTRAST BECAUSE ANY ELEMENT THAT WE WOULD ADD TO THAT FACADE TO CREATE AN UNLE PLANE IS NOW UNDER AN INTERPRETATION. UM, DOESN'T MEET THE HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE IT'S EXACERBATING EXISTING CONDITION THAT IS ALSO THE PLANE HAS TO GO UP TO, WELL, IT HA SO, SO CAN I WEIGH IN, IN, OUT AN UNRELIEVED BUILDING PLANE? IT JUST NEEDS TO BE RELIEVED, RIGHT? SO IT'S IN OUT, RIGHT? NO. SO IT CAN GO IN OR OUT. IT CAN BE A PROJECTION FROM THE WALL. SOME PEOPLE DO IT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S VARIOUS WAYS TO DO IT. UM, BUT IT, UM, YEAH, IT IS THE, THE WALLS ARE NEEDED AND BECAUSE OF THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING AND BECAUSE OF THE HEIGHT THAT THEY'RE REQUESTING, UM, THE PLANES WOULD HAVE TO BE REDUCED EVEN FURTHER BELOW WHAT HE HAD MENTIONED. AND THE EXCEPTION THAT, UM, COULD POTENTIALLY BE APPROVED BECAUSE OF A WALL. THAT'S, UM, I MEAN I THINK WE COULD ARGUE WHETHER IT'S VISIBLE FROM A PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY OR NOT, BUT BECAUSE THEY NEED IT FOR HEIGHT AS WELL, THAT EXCEPTION WOULDN'T APPLY. OKAY. THAT I'M HAVING A HARD TIME IN MY BRAIN LIVING IN THE WORLD WHERE GRANDFATHERING EXISTS BECAUSE IT DOES FOR ARIZONA STUFF LIKE LEGAL NON-CONFORMING IS WHERE THEY LIVE NOW BECAUSE RIGHT. THAT HEIGHT DOESN'T, ISN'T A THING. THOSE MASSING AREN'T A THING. SO THEY LIVE THERE RIGHT NOW. IS THAT WALL GETTING TOUCHED OTHER THAN LIKE PAINTING AND THE TRIM OF SIX INCHES ON THAT ARCHWAY? WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH, UH, THE SOUTHERN ELEVATION IS NOT BEING TOUCHED. UH, TO YOUR POINT, UM, I FOUND IT ARCHITECTURALLY CHALLENGING TO, TO DO THE THINGS THAT IT SAYS THAT CREATES AN UN RELIEF PLANE. RIGHT. I, I AM MASSING AND MY BRAIN IS HARD NO MATTER WHAT. RIGHT. IT'S JUST NOT GOOD. I'M JUST TRYING TO, LIKE, WHEN WE HAVE, WHAT I'M TRYING TO BEND MY BRAIN ON, KERRY IS LIKE, WE HAVE A NON-CONFORMING THING. I MEAN, LIKE, WE'VE TOUCHED IT. WE'RE NOT GONNA MAKE THEM LOP OFF THE TOP OF IT BECAUSE IT EXISTS EVEN THOUGH IT'S TOO TALL. SO I'M HAVING A HARD TIME WHY MASSING IS BEING FORCED ON A THING THAT'S NOT BEING TOUCHED. AND WE'RE NOT MAKING THEM LOP OFF THE TOP OF THE BUILDING. I'M JUST LIKE, I CAN'T, I DON'T KNOW WHERE LEGAL NON-CONFORMING STARTS AND UPDATING BEGINS. AND, AND SO LIKE WHEN IT COMES TO THAT SIDE OF THAT BUILDING, IF IT'S NOT BEING TOUCHED AND WE'RE NOT ASKING THEM TO MAKE THE WHOLE BUILDING SHORTER TO MEET CO CODE. I DON'T KNOW IF I GET THAT. MAYBE YOU CAN EXPLAIN IT TO ME. 'CAUSE I'VE BEEN, IT'S BEEN HURTING MY BRAIN OFF. SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ASKED THAT WAS NOT PROVIDED WAS A BETTER, UM, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE THE PORTICO SHARE VIEW THAT THEY SHOWED WAS SOMETHING THAT WE ASKED FOR THAT WASN'T PROVIDED. WE WERE ASKING FOR WHAT IS THE EXISTING, WHAT IS PROPOSED, AND LET US EVALUATE THAT AND GO, WE HAD ASKED A COUPLE TIMES TO GO THROUGH AN EVALUATION SO WE COULD DETERMINE WHAT WAS NON-CONFORMING, WHAT WAS NOT. AND THAT'S JUST, YOU DON'T HAVE EXISTING A NUMBER OF THE THINGS THAT WERE BROUGHT UP AS POTENTIAL NON-CON, NON-COMPLIANCE ISSUES WERE JUST THINGS ARE NOT CLEAR FROM THEIR PLANS THAT THERE COULD BE INFORMATION THAT THEY COULD PROVIDE THAT WOULD MAKE THINGS MORE CLEAR OF HOW WE'RE LOOKING AT THEM. BUT WE JUST HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT. RIGHT. I DON'T THINK THAT ANSWERS MY QUE I GET THAT ON THE PORTA SHARE. SURE. BUT I'M, I'M [01:10:01] MASSING IS WHERE MY, WHERE THAT WALL, THAT WALL SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE IT'S NOT GETTING TOUCHED IS I GUESS MM-HMM . I'M THINKING BOTH WALLS, BUT BECAUSE IT'S JUST ENDS, BUT MM-HMM . NOTHING IN THE CURRENT BUILDING MEETS CODE. SO I'M JUST HAVING A HARD TIME. I GET ADDING FEATURES AND WE WANNA MAKE SURE SOME HEIGHTS ON IT. I GET THAT. MM-HMM . AND THE GLASS THING, I DON'T LIKE THAT IT'S IN CODE, BUT IT'S, IT EXISTS, BUT THE, THE FINDING THE LINES, AND I THINK THAT'S KIND OF PART OF THE UNDERLYING THING WE, I'M GONNA HAVE A HARD TIME WITH TONIGHT IS WHERE IS THIS NEW? WHERE ARE WE APPLYING NEW CODE ON AN OLD BUILDING? AND WHERE DO, DOES IT SAY NON-CONFORMING MM-HMM . AND SO REALLY I'M JUST ASKING ABOUT THAT ONE WALL. LIKE WE KNOW IT'S NOT CHANGING. WHY DOES IT NEED TO BE MASKED ADDITIONALLY? UM, SO THEIR ADDITION DOES COUNT AS AN ADDITION. I UNDERSTAND THAT THEY SAID THAT IT'S, YOU KNOW, BUT IT, THE WAY IT'S DESIGNED IT BY CODE, IT COUNTS AS AN ADDITION TO THE BUILDING. SO THERE'S FIRST THAT THERE IS, THERE IS, WHETHER IT'S YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, THERE IS SOME BUILDING ARTICULATION THERE. SO REMOVING BUILDING ARTICULATION DOES MAKE THAT NON-CONFORMING SITUATION WORSE. EVEN. AND AGAIN, IT'S COULD BE A MI IT'S, YOU KNOW, FROM WHAT THEY DESCRIBED, IT'S MINOR. THEY THINK THEY SAID 48 SQUARE FEET, BUT IT'S 48 SQUARE FEET. UM, AND THEN THE ADDITION OF THE BUILDING WITH THE ADDITIONAL HEIGHTS THERE, BECAUSE IT IS ALL CONSIDERED THE WHOLE, YOU KNOW, THE BUILDING. WE LOOK AT THE WHOLE BUILDING WHEN WE'RE APPLYING ALTERNATE STANDARDS. OKAY. SO WOULD IT BE TRUE, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT, WHERE THE APPLICANT DIDN'T AGREE WITH YOUR INTERPRETATION, THEY DIDN'T ALSO SEEK A VARIANCE FOR? RIGHT. OKAY. AND DID THEY KNOW THAT WAS AVAILABLE TO THEM? WE'VE BEEN REVIEWING A DEVELOPMENT REVIEW APPLICATION AND WHEN WE PROVIDED COMMENTS, THEY REQUESTED TO BE PUT ON A, AN ON AN AGENDA. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS, IF I COULD JUMP IN THERE ON THE, ON THE VARIANCE ISSUE SINCE IT'S COME UP A COUPLE TIMES. ALRIGHT. SO A VARIANCE IS AVAILABLE AND THE APPLICANT'S FREE TO APPLY, APPLY FOR ONE. BUT I DON'T THINK IT NECESSARILY APPLIES IN THE SITUATION. A VARIANCE IS APPROPRIATE WHERE THE BASED ON THE SIZE, SHAPE, OR TOP BIOGRAPHY OF A LOT, UM, THE OWNER'S NOT ABLE TO USE IT IN THE SAME MANNER, UM, AS THE NEIGHBORING LOTS. UM, AND THAT'S NOT WHAT WE HAVE GOING ON HERE, SO. OKAY. AND IT ALSO CAN'T BE SELF-IMPOSED. SO IF ANY, ANY OF THE CONDITIONS THAT ARE IN INHIBITING YOU MM-HMM . UH, TO USE YOUR LOT THE SAME WAY NEIGHBORING LOTS GET TO USE THEIRS MM-HMM . UM, IF IT'S A SELF-IMPOSED CONDITION, MEANING, UH, IT WAS BUILT THAT WAY PREVIOUSLY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT GENERALLY WOULD NOT BE AVAILABLE FOR VARIANCE. AND ALSO YES. WHAT WE HAVE BEFORE THE COMMISSION TONIGHT IS A DEVELOPMENT REVIEW, NOT A VARIANCE APPLICATION, WHICH WOULD GO TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. OKAY. AND SO WHERE YOU HAD MULTIPLE DISAGREEMENTS, I GUESS ON THE INTERPRETATION OF THE CODE, IT WAS YOUR INTENT THEN TO HAVE THE COMMISSION, UH, MAKE A DECISION ON THOSE? IT WAS OUR INABILITY TO INTERACT WITH STAFF IN A WAY WHERE WE COULD RESOLVE THEM. SO I'M, I, I DON'T WANT TO DISAGREE WITH STAFF, BUT WE DID NOT HAVE A FORUM TO SIT DOWN AND GO THROUGH THESE THINGS AND SHOW THESE THINGS. LIKE I SAID, SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS ONE SENTENCE IN A TRAFFIC REPORT WE'RE TOLD YOU HAVE TO START OVER. SO IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT. YEAH. THAT'S MY NEXT QUESTION ABOUT THE START OVER QUESTION. CAN I ASK, SINCE WE'RE HERE, SO IS THIS A, LIKE THE WHOLE, YOU GET THREE REVISIONS AND THEN START OVER SITUATION WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? WELL, WE PROVIDED COMMENTS AND WE OFFERED TO MEET WITH THE APPLICANT MM-HMM . UM, BUT THEY REQUESTED TO GO TO A PUBLIC HEARING. YEAH. AND GENERALLY ONCE WE START THE PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS, WE DON'T ACCEPT CHANGES TO THE APPLICATION GIVES. SO HE SAID, IF YOU WANT TO GIVE US REVISIONS MM-HMM . WE CAN DO THAT, BUT WE NEED TO PULL IT OFF OF THE HEARING AND GO THROUGH THE RESUBMITTAL PROCESS AND THEN RESCHEDULE IT FOR A HEARING ONCE WE'VE HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE RESUBMITTAL. THERE ARE LIMITS ON RESUBMITTAL AND THINGS? NO, YOU HAVE TO START PAYING HOURLY RATES AFTER THE SECOND ONE. UM, OKAY. BUT THERE'S NOT LIKE A RESTART, LIKE, BECAUSE I KNOW WITH LIKE BUILDING PERMITS, YOU GET LIKE THREE STRIKES AND THEN TRY AGAIN. I MEAN, I DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WAS THE SAME. SO THEY, THEY KNEW THE DEADLINE FOR FILING, BUT THEY DIDN'T COMPLY WITH STAFF'S REQUEST FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION. WHEN WE GAVE THEM COMMENTS, THEY REQUESTED TO BE ADDED TO A PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AGENDA. GOT IT. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THE PROCESS CLARIFICATION. YEP. ROB, I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO START, BUT I'LL START WITH, I THINK I TOTALLY SUPPORT THIS PROJECT. I THINK AS A PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, WE'RE GETTING DOWN TO HOW MUCH DOES AN OVERHANG GO OUTSIDE AND ALL THOSE KIND OF RULES. UM, I THINK A PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION IS MUCH BROADER, BUT I'LL SAY I COMPLIMENT YOU. I THINK THIS IS A GREAT PROJECT ON INTERACTING WITH THE [01:15:01] JULIE RICHARDS AND THE ART CENTER. MM-HMM . I'VE BEEN THERE MANY TIMES AT THE PLANTAR FESTIVAL. I CAN IMAGINE THE INTERACTION BETWEEN THIS BUILDING AND THAT. AND I APPLAUD YOU FOR WORKING WITH, UH, JULIE, UH, IN MANY WAYS BETTER THAN THE OTHER DEVELOPMENT THAT'S GOING ON. UM, BUT THAT SPACE COULD BE A REAL CENTER TO, TO THE WHOLE ACTIVITY. UM, AND I ALSO UNDERSTAND YOU'RE ALLOWING, UH, ART CENTER PARKING, YOU KNOW, THEIR, THEIR PARKING IS SO BAD. AND IS THE APPLE TREE ACTUALLY ON THEIR PROPERTY? NO. NO. IT'S TECHNICALLY ON OUR PROPERTY. IT'S LITERALLY RIGHT AT THE CORNER. BUT AS ON OUR PROPERTY, I WAS THERE FOR, UH, THE POTTERY, THE STUDENT POTTERY SHOW AND NOTICE THAT POOR TREE AND THE, THE MESS IT IS. SO I TOTALLY SUPPORT THIS PROJECT. UM, I THINK PART OF THIS SPEAKS TO OUR LDC THAT IF, UH, AN EXISTING BUILDING SUCH AS THIS IS REQUIRED TO, WE HAD A SAYING IN ARCHITECTURE, IF YOU HAVE, IF YOU PUT LIPSTICK ON A PIG, YOU STILL HAVE A PIG. UM, AND I THINK THAT'S PARTLY WHAT THIS IS TALKING ABOUT, THE SOUTH ELEVATION, UH, YOU'RE IMPROVING THE BUILDING BY OVER 50%. MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN LIFE SAFETY CODES HAVE TO BE UPDATED. YOU GET SMOKE ALARMS, YOU GET BETTER EXITS. BUT I NEVER HAD TO PUT A WINDOW IN BECAUSE I WAS IMPROVING, ADDING TO AN EXISTING BUILDING. I THINK THAT'S INSANE. I'LL JUST SAY IT. AND I THINK, I THINK OUR CODE NEEDS TO DEAL WITH EXISTING BUILDINGS THAT ARE BEING RENOVATED AND HOW THEY MEET THE LDC UH, UNRELIEVED BUILDING PLANES. THIS IS, THIS IS NOT A BUILDING. SO SPECIFICALLY I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU. THE TRIM YOU TALKED ABOUT AROUND THE ARCHED WINDOWS, ARE YOU REMOVING THAT TO MEET CODE? OR ARE YOU REMOVING IT BECAUSE YOU WANT TO? OH, GOOD QUESTION. I THINK, I THINK BOTH REALLY. GO AHEAD. UH, WELL CERTAINLY NOT TO MEET CODE. UM, RIGHT NOW, LIKE WE MENTIONED, THERE'S A, A KIND OF AN ODD ITALIANATE DETAILING AND THAT HAPPENS AT THAT TRIM. AND THEN MORE SPECIFICALLY UNDERNEATH THE ESHA, THERE IS LIKE A FAKE BALCONY. THERE'S ALL KINDS OF ODD LITTLE BITS AND BUBBLES. SO YOU'RE REMOVING IT TO MEET CODE OR BECAUSE YOU WANT TO, WE ARE REMOVING IT TO MAKE THE BUILDING FEEL MORE LIKE A SEDONA PROJECT. OKAY. SO YOU'RE, IT'S YOUR CHOICE TO MOVE IT, NOT CODE FORCING YOU TO DO THAT. I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT. 'CAUSE I WANNA UNDERSTAND IF OUR CODE IS ACTUALLY REMOVING PARTS OF A BUILDING JUST TO, BECAUSE THEN WE GET INTO STRIPPED DOWN BUILDINGS WITH NO DETAIL AND I DON'T THINK WE WANT THAT EITHER. UM, BASED ON, I WROTE DOWN ALL THE DENIAL QUESTIONS. WILL, UM, I WROTE DOWN DEVELOPER NOT IDENTIFIED ALL NONCONFORMITIES. I BELIEVE THEY HAVE SPOKEN TO NONCONFORMITIES. UH, I THINK THEY'VE TALKED ABOUT THE SETBACKS IN THE FRONT AND WHAT DOESN'T COMPLY WITHIN THE SETBACK. AND IT'S MOSTLY THE PORTICO SHARE AND, AND YOUR OTHER TWO BUILDINGS. RIGHT. UM, THEY'VE CLARIFIED THE HEIGHT RESTRICTION OF THE RESTAURANT AND THE EXISTING BUILDING AT 39 FEET IN THEIR INFORMATION. UM, YOU SAID CARRIE, YOU SAID THE BUILDING DIDN'T COMPLY WITH THE LENGTH AND IN THEIR REBUTTAL TO YOU, THEY SAID IT WAS 193 FEET. SO WHEN YOU, SO WHEN YOU HAVE A BUILDING THAT'S OVER 150 FEET, YOU HAVE TO HAVE 25% OF THE FOOTPRINT BE NO MORE THAN 16 FEET IN HEIGHT. AND THEY DO NOT COMPLY WITH THAT REQUIREMENT. AND THAT'S BECAUSE OF THEIR MOSTLY EXISTING BUILDINGS? WELL, I BELIEVE THE EXISTING BUILDING, I DON'T HAVE IT IN FRONT OF ME, BUT THE RESTAURANT DOES LENGTHEN THE BUILDING. AND SO I DON'T, DON'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD WHETHER THE EXISTING BUILDING IS UNDER 150 FEET OR NOT. BUT THEY ARE LENGTHENING IT. AND SO THAT WOULD REQUIRE ADDITIONAL, UM, OR A, AN AREA OF THE BUILDING THAT IS LESS THAN 16 FEET IN HEIGHT. SEE, THIS IS THE CODE. AND, AND THEN THE, THEY'RE ARGUING THAT THAT'S NOT LENGTHENING THE BUILDING. CORRECT. 'CAUSE THERE'S NO SHARED RIGHT. STUFF. RIGHT. AND THEN THE BUILDING, UH, THE UNRELIEVED PLANES, I READ THAT IT WAS BEING YOUR RECOMMENDATION DENIED BECAUSE OF NO UNRELIEVED PLANES. AND I THINK THAT'S INSANITY AND SIGNAGE. I ALSO HAVE DONE MANY BUILDINGS WHERE I'M SORRY IF I'M BEING TOO BRUTAL. AM I BEING TOO BRUTAL? YOU'RE JUST BEING YOURSELF. . AND, AND I DID MANY BUILDINGS WHERE WE, WE SHOWED SIGNAGE AND WE KNEW THAT WE HAD EIGHT FEET ALLOWED ON AN ELEVATION AND WE SHOWED WHERE THAT EIGHT FEET WOULD BE USED. WE HAD NO IDEA WHAT THE FINAL LOGO. SOMETIMES WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHO WAS GONNA BE IN THE SPACE. MM-HMM . ESPECIALLY IF IT WAS A MIXED USE WITH RESTAURANTS. SO WE JUST SHOWED [01:20:01] SIGNS THAT COMPLIED WITH THE SQUARE FOOTAGE. SO TO ME THEIR EXPLANATION OF THAT IS FINE. UM, I, I, I THINK, UH, THE ISSUES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE SO SMALL COMPARED TO THIS PROJECT. AND I UNDERSTAND FROM THE PROFESSIONALS THAT IT COMPLIES WITH THOSE ISSUES. AND I WOULD TOTALLY SUPPORT THIS PROJECT. IF WE DON'T HAVE ANY MORE COMMENTS, UM, AT THIS POINT, I THINK I'D LIKE TO OPEN UP THE PUBLIC FORUM AND THEN WE COME BACK FOR MORE DISCUSSION. CAN I JUST ASK ONE QUESTION? SURE. I JUST WANNA ASK A QUESTION TO CARRIE. AND THIS IS JUST 'CAUSE I DON'T KNOW MM-HMM . SO, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF PROJECTS IN SEDONA, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THAT ARE BIG RENOVATION PROJECTS, RIGHT? WE DON'T REALLY HAVE STUFF LIKE THIS. IS THAT TRUE? LIKE IN THE COMMERCIAL SIDE RECENTLY? NO, WE HAVEN'T. MOST OF IT'S BEEN, AND SO IN OUR CODE, I UNDERSTAND BRINGING STUFF UP TO CODE, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THINGS IN PLACE IN OUR CITY TO HELP, LIKE WITH RESTORATION. LIKE SOME CITIES HAVE LIKE A HISTORIC RESTORATION CODE OR, YOU KNOW, A 30-YEAR-OLD BUILDING. WE DON'T HAVE THAT HERE YET. RIGHT. SO WHAT WE HAVE IS OUR, UM, LEGAL NON-CONFORMING SECTION. OKAY. WHICH SAYS THAT, UM, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO KEEP YOUR EXISTING BUILDING, BUT YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO INCREASE A NON-CONFORMITY. OKAY. UM, AND ANYTHING NEW WOULD NEED TO MEET CODE. OKAY. AND THEN ONCE YOU GET FOR A COMMERCIAL BUILDING, IF YOU'RE EXPANDING IT, 25% OF THE VALUATION OF THE BUILDING OR 25% OF THE FLOOR AREA, THE WHOLE THING HAS TO BE BROUGHT UP TO CODE. SO THERE ARE SOME LIMITS ON WHAT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO DO, BUT THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD HAVE TO WORK WITH. SO THAT IN YOUR OPINION, AND, AND THIS IS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER IT IF YOU DON'T WANNA, IN YOUR OPINION, DO YOU THINK THAT THAT'S AN AREA OF CODE THAT MAY NEED TO BE LOOKED AT TO IN THE FUTURE TO EXPAND? SO WE'RE NOT IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS. I MEAN, THERE'S ALWAYS CODES THAT CAN LOOK AT, BUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE REVIEWING IT BASED ON THE CODE THAT WE HAVE IN PLACE. RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND PLACE. I JUST UNDERSTAND THAT. OKAY. THANKS CARRIE. OKAY. I'D LIKE TO OPEN UP THE PUBLIC FORUM. I HAVE TWO CARDS. IF ANYONE HAS DECIDED THEY WANNA SPEAK AND HASN'T TURNED IN A CARD, YOU CAN GET 'EM OVER HERE FROM US. UM, DONNA. AND, UM, YOU'LL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK FOR THREE MINUTES. COME, PLEASE COME TO THE PODIUM. UH, STATE YOUR NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE. UH, THE FIRST ONE IS TO ALBRIGHT. I'M HERE MORE FOR THE PARKING LOT, SO, OH, I'M SORRY. YOU ARE, BUT I'LL DO THAT 'CAUSE I, I'VE COVERED SOMEWHAT CON CONSTRAIN ON THE NEXT ITEM. YEAH. I'M SORRY, I I DIDN'T NOTE THAT. WE'RE, WE'RE JUST ADDRESSING THE CURRENT PROJECT. UM, SO I ONLY HAVE ONE FOR THIS. AND THAT'S STEVE SIGNER. THANK YOU. MY NAME IS STEVE SIGNER. UH, MY WIFE AND I CONNIE OWN A HOTEL IN SEDONA. BEEN HERE 25 YEARS. UM, I SUPPORT THIS PROJECT. I THINK THAT THE WHOLE RENEWAL PROCESS IS TIME FOR SEDONA. I THINK IT'S TIME THAT WE START LOOKING AT SOME OF THESE WEST SEDONA AND SOME OF THESE PROPERTIES AND HOW DO WE TURN, BRING, BRING THEM INTO MODERNITY, HOW DO WE BRING THEM UP? SO I, I APPLAUD YOU FOR WHAT YOU'VE DONE. I ALSO FEEL FOR WHAT YOU'RE GOING THROUGH. UM, I HOPE THAT WE CAN COMPROMISE, UH, AND COME UP WITH A SOLUTION. UH, THE ONLY COMMENT I HAVE ON HOTELS IN THIS AREA, I SUPPORT THEM, BY THE WAY. I KNOW THERE'S ANOTHER PROJECT, IS I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THE HOTELS AND THE PROPERTY OWNERS CONTROL THE ACCESS TO THE RIVER. UH, I LIVE UP THE CANYON AND, UH, WHEN THEY TOOK AWAY ALL THE PARKING ON 89, A HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE GO TO INDIAN GARDENS NOW TO GET JUST 30 OR 40 FEET OF WATER. MM-HMM . SO I THINK WE HAVE TO REALIZE THAT'S GOING TO BE A HUGE MAGNET AND WHEN YOU NEED TO THINK ABOUT IT. BUT I, I CONGRATULATE YOU. I THINK YOU'RE DOING A GREAT JOB. I JUST WISH WE COULD DO MORE OF THIS IN WEST SEDONA. MM-HMM . THANK YOU. . THANK YOU STEVE. I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER CARDS. SO WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND, UH, BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR DISCUSSION. UM, WE ACTUALLY HAVE TWO MOTIONS IN FRONT OF US. ONE IS, UM, TO DENY RECOMMENDATION FROM STAFF AND THE OTHER IS FOR A CONTINUANCE. AND, UM, WE DON'T HAVE ANY CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL BECAUSE STAFF HAS, UH, RECOMMENDED A DENIAL. WE DON'T HAVE ANY CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL IF WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE IT. SO I WANTED TO ASK KURT IF THERE, UM, LET'S, IF THE COMMISSION WAS LEANING TOWARDS A CONTINUANCE, UM, TO SATISFY THE ITEMS THAT HAVE NOT YET BEEN RESOLVED BETWEEN STAFF AND THE APPLICANT, CAN WE DO SO WITHOUT CONDITIONS OF ATTACHED TO THAT DEF DEFINE THE, ALL OF THE AREAS THAT THEY BROUGHT UP TONIGHT THAT ARE ALL NEW TO STAFF AND ALL NEW TO THE COMMISSION. [01:25:01] SO YES. CHAIR AND COMMISSION, THAT IS ONE OPTION. IT'D PROBABLY BE MORE HELPFUL TO KNOW WHICH ONES YOU FEEL LIKE THEY ARE COMPLYING WITH AND WHICH ONES THEY AREN'T. TO GIVE A LITTLE MORE DIRECTION IF, IF THAT'S THE WAY THEY'RE GONNA GO. IF, UH, THE COMMISSION IS ALSO FREE YOU TO, UH, RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW AS EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT LISTED IN THERE AS A WRITTEN, I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T HEAR WHAT YOU SAID. APPROVE THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW. WE CAN APPROVE, YOU CAN DO THAT. JUST 'CAUSE IT'S NOT LISTED AS A MOTION, THAT'S AN OPTION FOR THE COMMISSION AS WELL. RIGHT, RIGHT. CAN I MAKE A QUICK COMMENT TO JOE'S LAST QUESTION? YEAH. UM, SO SPEAKING FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS WENT THROUGH THE MUCH SMALLER VERSION OF DEVELOPMENT IN THE CITY, RIGHT. FOR A REMODEL OF AN EXISTING BUILDING, I REALLY DO THINK IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT IT IS MY BELIEF THE REASON WHY OUR COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS DON'T REDEVELOP IS BECAUSE OF CURRENT CODE. A HUNDRED PERCENT. OKAY. UM, AND SO, AND I THINK WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE LITERALLY RUNNING INTO THAT RIGHT NOW. HEAD ON A BEAUTIFUL, I MEAN, THE SUSTAINABILITY OF THIS PROJECT IS WHAT WE ALE OVER AS A COMMISSION FOR ALL OTHER PROJECTS MM-HMM . AND MOST OF THE COMPONENTS. RIGHT. SO I THINK THAT THE REASON WE SEE AN AGING 89 A IS BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE CODE TO DEAL WITH EXISTING BUILDINGS AND EXISTING USES. AND I FOUND THAT IN MY OWN EXPERIENCE AS WELL. SO I JUST WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, JOE, IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND WATCHING OUR PROJECTS, THAT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING THE COMMISSION SHOULD LOOK AT WHEN WE SEE THE LDC SOON-ISH. UM, I LOVE THIS PROJECT. I WAS LIKE GIDDY OVER THIS PROJECT THE FIRST TIME WE SAW IT LAST YEAR. I THINK I TALKED ABOUT IT FOR LIKE A WEEK, . UM, I FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THE CHANGES IN THE WAY IT WAS EXPLAINED. I STILL WILL CONTINUE THAT. I DON'T UNDERSTAND MASSING AND THIS SPECIFIC USE OF MASSING, BUT I THINK I'M OKAY WITH WHAT I UNDERSTAND NOW. I THINK THE ONLY ONE THAT WE HAVEN'T REALLY TOUCHED IS, UM, LIKE THERE IS ONE DENIAL ABOUT TOO MUCH GLASS, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE'S RULES ABOUT NO, NO. OKAY. NO ENOUGH GLASS, NOT ENOUGH TRANSPARENCY. IT WAS A LACK. THERE'S A, THEY DIDN'T PROVIDE THE RIGHT INFO. IT COULD HAVE ENOUGH GLASS, BUT THEY HAVEN'T PROVIDED THAT INFORMATION BECAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S RULES ABOUT TOO MUCH GLASS TOO, RIGHT? LIKE I'M NOT MAKING OUT OF IT. YEAH. YOU CAN'T HAVE JUST TOO MANY A WALL OF GLASS. BUT NO, IT WAS, THE INFORMATION THEY PROVIDED WAS THE TRANSPARENCY OF THE ENTIRE BUILDING, NOT BY FLOOR. OKAY. SO IT'S JUST YEAH. LACK OF INFORMATION TO BE ABLE TO MAKE A GOT IT. TO REVIEW THE PROJECT. UM, I THINK I, I'M GONNA KIND OF FOLLOW ROB'S LEAD IN THAT I FEEL LIKE THE THINGS THAT WERE BROUGHT TO US AS CONCERNS WERE ADDRESSED. UM, I DON'T LIKE HOW IT WAS ALL DONE. IT DOESN'T FEEL GOOD IN ANY DIRECTION. LIKE BY BLAME OF MM-HMM . ANY DIRECTION. AND I ALSO, AS SOMEONE WHO'S WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS, NO, IT'S, IT'S A HARD PROCESS AND IT'S A HARD, UM, IT'S A HARD, IT'S NOT STAFF'S FAULT. IT'S, IT'S, I DON'T THINK THERE'S MANY GOVERNMENTS WHEN SOMEONE WALKS OUT OF A GOVERNMENTAL PROCESS AND WENT, BOY, THAT WAS EASY. WHAT A LOVELY SHORT PROCESS THAT WAS. UM, SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO KNOW TOO. HOW MANY PROJECTS AREN'T WE SEEING BECAUSE THERE ARE JUST TOO MANY SPEED BUMPS OR, OR WHATEVER. SO I WILL LISTEN TO THE REST OF MY COMMISSIONERS, BUT I'M OF THE OPINION I'M LEANING TOWARDS APPROVING WITH, AS LONG AS THEY MEET SIGN CODE, WHEN THEY SUBMIT THEIR SIGN PERMIT, WHICH IS GONNA COME WITH BUILDING CODE ANYWAY, OR WITH THEIR BUILDING PERMITS ANYWAY. UH, AND ALL OF THE THINGS WE'VE DISCUSSED, AS LONG AS IT'S CLARIFIED FOR BUILDING PERMITS, I, I'M NOT, I'M NOT CONCERNED BECAUSE ALL OF THIS HAS TO BE CLARIFIED WITH BUILDING PERMITS. ALL OF THIS HAS TO BE MET TO BE ISSUED. SO THAT'S THE WAY I'M LEANING. THANK YOU. I WOULD JUST SAY THAT IF SOMEONE MADE AN APPROPRIATE, UM, UM, PROPOSAL HERE TO, UH, TO ACCEPT THE PROJECT, UH, I WOULD SECOND IT. OKAY. SO THIS IS INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING, . I'M JUST GONNA PUT THAT OUT THERE. UM, BECAUSE YEAH, HEARING THE PRESENTATION, I FEEL LIKE A LOT OF THE ISSUES HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED AND, YOU KNOW, WITH A CAREER IN ENGINEERING AND UNDERSTANDING CODE AND THE FRUSTRATIONS THAT COME ALONG WITH IT, YOU KNOW, TO ME IT SOUNDS LIKE THINGS HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED. BUT I'D ALSO LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR FROM CARRIE, LIKE, WELL, ARE THEY REALLY ADDRESSED? MM-HMM . WHICH IS REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE I HAVE A LOT OF EMPATHY FOR, YOU KNOW, STAFF IS JUST DOING THEIR JOB BASED ON HOW CODE IS DONE. AND, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, YEAH, WE CAN GET CRAZY. I THINK A LOT OF THE CODE IS CRAP TOO, AND NEEDS A LOT OF WORK, ESPECIALLY AROUND THINGS LIKE THIS. 'CAUSE IF WE PULL BACK FROM THE 40,000 FOOT VIEW, I MEAN, THAT'S AN EYESORE IN UPTOWN. IT'S HORRIBLE. YOU KNOW, , I MEAN, THAT'S MY PERSONAL OPINION. I MEAN, DON'T HOLD BACK. [01:30:01] I'M JUST, YOU KNOW, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN AUTHENTIC AND DIRECT. UM, AND IT'S JUST, THEY'RE COMING IN AND I'M A SUSTAINABILITY GIRL. AND I MEAN, MAN, YOU'RE HITTING THE MARKS AND ALL OF THESE THINGS. I THINK IT'S A FABULOUS PROJECT AND I'M, YOU KNOW, I'M VERY SUPPORTIVE OF IT TOO. AND IT'S FRUSTRATING TO ME THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT IT'S NOT MEETING SOMETHING BECAUSE THEY WANNA REMOVE ITALIAN STRIPS AROUND WINDOWS. AND SO THERE SHOULD BE AN AVENUE IN THAT, YOU KNOW, THE CODE HAS TO BE ADJUSTED IN ORDER TO INCORPORATE THIS. BECAUSE I THINK IF YOU DRIVE DOWN 89 A, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE EXISTING BUILDINGS ARE PRETTY BEAT. AND YOU KNOW, FOR A TOWN THAT PRIDES ITSELF IN SUSTAINABILITY AND ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARDSHIP AND SENSE OF PLACE, LIKE, WE NEED TO FIX THIS SO THAT PEOPLE CAN COME IN AND ACTUALLY DO THIS AND MAKE THIS A SENSE OF PLACE. SO I FEEL FRUSTRATED. I FEEL PRETTY HANDCUFFED AROUND THIS DECISION BECAUSE I LOVE THIS PROJECT TOO. I MEAN, LEAD YAY, FINALLY LEAD. UM, AND SO I, I WANNA SUPPORT THIS A HUNDRED PERCENT. AND I ALSO HAVE EMPATHY FOR THE CITY BECAUSE WHAT DO WE DO HERE? IS IT, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, WE'RE STUCK IN THESE WEEDS OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, WELL THIS CODE. AND IT'S LIKE, WELL IT'S, YOU KNOW, LEGALLY NON-CONFORMING. I UNDERSTAND COLLIE EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. SO I'M HOPING WE CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY TO MAKE THIS WORK. MM-HMM . SO TO ME, WHEN THAT HAPPENS, YOU MAKE A LIST OF WHAT CAUSES REASONS FOR DENYING. AND YOU LOOK AT THAT LIST VERY QUICKLY AND YOU SAY, TRAFFIC STUDY IS ON THAT LIST. WE CHECK IT OFF. RIGHT. UM, BUILDING, UH, CHANGE IN PLANE, UH, WE CHECK THAT OFF. A SIGNAGE WILL BE COMPLIANT. WE CHECK THAT OFF AND YOU GET DOWN TO THE ISSUES THAT ARE NOT IN AGREEMENT. AND THEN YOU FIGURE THAT OUT. YEAH. WELL, I THINK THIS, YEAH. AND IT'S MY POINT OF VIEW THAT, THAT THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT STAFF DOES FOR US. STAFF ANALYZES THESE ISSUES THAT ARE NEW TO US TONIGHT AND THAT WE'RE NOT IN A POSITION TO DO THAT. MM-HMM . UM, I WOULDN'T, I WOULDN'T, UM, WANNA USURP THE, UM, TALENT AND EXPERTISE, EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE THAT STAFF HAS ABOUT THE ISSUES THAT THEY RAISED WITHOUT THEIR HAVING THE OPPORTUNITY TO ANALYZE WHAT THE APPLICANT HAS PRESENTED US AS NEW MATERIAL TONIGHT. RIGHT. AND I, SO IF, IF A CONTINUANCE DOES THAT, I, I DON'T THINK THAT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE. I DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD PRECEDENT FOR THE, UM, FOR THE CITY TO BE CONTINUING. UM, BUT I THINK THERE'S ENOUGH SUPPORT. ALL OF US LIKE THIS PROJECT. WE LIKE WHAT YOU'RE DOING. WE LIKE WHAT YOU'RE ADDING TO IT. WE LIKE WHAT YOUR COMMUNITY PARTNERSHIPS, THE WONDERFUL HERITAGE TREE PRESERVATION . SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. YEAH, THANK YOU. I MEAN, ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE IN THE PLUS COLUMN, BUT IS IT A BAD PRECEDENT? BECAUSE WE WON'T BE DOING THIS IN SIX WEEKS. AND I ALSO THINK TOO, YOU KNOW, UM, CARRIE STAFF, YOU ONLY, YOUR HANDS ARE TIED TO THE CODE. AND I THINK WE'RE JUST IDENTIFYING THE CODE IS NOT WORKING WELL TO REMODEL EXISTING, EXISTING BUILDINGS. YEAH. AND SO I'M IN FAVOR OF THIS PROJECT COMPLETELY. SO I'M, I MAKE A MOTION. SO I MAKES MOTION, I WILL SUPPORT THIS PROJECT, BUT IT'S NOT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK STAFF'S NOT GOOD. RIGHT. I THINK IT'S BECAUSE OUR CODE IS, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND WHY WE DEVELOPED THE CODE THAT WE DID. I GET IT. BUT NOW WE HAVE AGING BUILDINGS THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT OUR CODE CAN'T HANDLE. AND SO, UM, I THINK, YOU KNOW, I JUST, I JUST THINK THIS IS SUCH A FABULOUS PROJECT. I HATE TO SEE IT STUCK AGAIN SOME MORE. UM, AND I KNOW WHEN I BRING MY FRIENDS IN TOWN AND WE'RE IN, IN UPTOWN, 'CAUSE I, I STILL BRING PEOPLE TO UPTOWN AND THEY'LL BE LIKE, WHAT'S AFTER THAT? WHAT'S THAT? WHAT'S THAT BUILDING? AND I'M LIKE, THAT'S A HOTEL. OH, IS THAT THE END OF THE ROAD? AND I SAID, OH, NO, NO, WE GOTTA GO TO THE SAC. WE GOTTA GO DO THIS. WE GOTTA GO DO THAT. YOU GOTTA GO TO THIS ART GALLERY OVER HERE. UM, BUT THEY'RE, I'M LIKE PULLING THEM DOWN THE STREET. RIGHT. AND, AND I WANNA SEE ENTREPRENEURS. I WANNA SEE BUSINESS THRIVE. YOU KNOW, TOURISM IS GREAT. IT'S A GREAT MONEY GENERATION GENERATOR. AND, AND, BUT WE HAVE ARTISTS, OUR COMMUNITY HAS ARTISTS THAT ARE RELYING ON SELLING THEIR ART. UM, WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE TRYING TO SELL GOODS AND WE ALSO NEED TO KEEP THAT IN MIND TOO, THE ECONOMICS OF IT ALL. MM-HMM . MM-HMM . SO WHAT IF I, I, I REALLY AM A SUPPORTER OF THIS PROJECT AND IT HAS NO INDICATION WHATSOEVER THAT CARRIE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO DO HER JOB. 'CAUSE CARRIE'S AWESOME. . I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE WHY HOUSE BILL 24 47 IS A BAD IDEA. RIGHT? THAT'S RIGHT. RIGHT, RIGHT. UM, YEAH, THE DISCRETION THAT WE HAVE WITH, WHICH IS A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT HAT THAN [01:35:01] WHAT STAFF HAS CAN BE USEFUL. SO THAT'S GONNA BE TAKEN AWAY. AND SO IN MY MIND, I'M JUST TRYING, AND I AGREE WITH EVERYBODY WHAT THEY'VE SAID ABOUT THE PROJECT ITSELF. SO I LIKE TO UNDERSTAND IF WE HAD THE DISCRETION, WHICH MAY BE A CURRENT QUESTION, TO ALLOW OUR INTERPRETATION OF WHAT YOU'VE PUT OUT TODAY AND AGREE WITH THAT AND MOVE THE PROJECT FORWARD AS AN APPROVAL OR MM-HMM . UH, IT'S REALLY KIND OF A QUESTION FOR CARRIE THEN TOO, WHICH IS MORE HELPFUL TO YOU MM-HMM . TO HAVE IT BE A CONTINUANCE. DO YOU THINK THAT YOU CAN COME TO AGREEMENT WITH THE WAY THAT YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THINGS? UM, OR CAN WE HELP YOU WITH THAT BY APPROVING IT NOW? DOES THAT MAKE SENSE, ? IT DOES. NO, THERE ARE NO, YOU DON'T MEAN THAT BY APPROVING IT. NOW, THERE ARE NO CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL IN YOUR PACKET THAT YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO ADOPT. WELL, WE DON'T HAVE ANY CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL. RIGHT, RIGHT. UM, MOST OF THOSE ARE STANDARD THAT, BUT THERE MIGHT, BUT AGAIN, UM, A NUMBER OF THE THINGS THAT THEY BROUGHT UP IS HOW THEY BELIEVE THEY'RE MEETING THE CODE. MM-HMM . ARE, WERE NEW TONIGHT. RIGHT. UM, AND SO HOW TO CRAFT THOSE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE GETTING SOMETHING. I THINK I UNDERSTAND HOW YOU GUYS SEE THE PROJECT FROM THIS DISCUSSION, BUT THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN LIKE DO DURING A BREAK, RIGHT? MM-HMM . RIGHT. RIGHT. YEAH. WE'VE BEEN PLACED IN A VERY DIFFICULT, UM, POSITION HERE BY THE APPLICANT BY NOT HAVING WORKED OUT THESE THINGS BEFORE THEY GOT TO US AND STAFFS PUT IN A DIFFICULT POSITION. ABSOLUTELY. YOU KNOW, AND ABSOLUTELY. THAT'S WHY IT SHOULD BE LIKE OUR CITY JOB TO ADJUST THE CODE AS NEEDED IN ORDER TO MAKE HER JOB EASIER. RIGHT. IN ORDER TO ALLOW, BECAUSE WE DO WANNA PROMOTE REDEVELOPMENT. WE'VE GOT LOTS OF PROPERTIES THAT NEED TO GO IN THAT DIRECTION AND THAT'S WHERE THE CITY IS GONNA BE FROM NOW ON, IS IN REDEVELOPMENT. SO WE DON'T WANNA DISCOURAGE THAT. WE WANNA ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE MAY NEED TO BE CODE REVISIONS, BUT WE'RE NOT DOING THAT TONIGHT AND WE CAN'T DO IT TONIGHT FROM THIS POSITION. MY CONCERN ABOUT A CONTINUANCE IS THAT WE NEED TO, IF WE'RE GOING TO DO IT, AND TO BE ABLE TO HELP THIS PROJECT MOVE FORWARD, THAT CONTINUANCE HAS TO HAPPEN BEFORE THAT LAW GOES INTO EFFECT. IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN. NO, IT DOES. THAT'S SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT. NO, IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO HAPPEN BEFORE THAT LAW'S IN EFFECT. WE WON'T SEE IT THEN. WE WON'T. NO, THAT'S WHAT I'M MEAN. YEAH. YEAH. WE WON'T SEE IT. RIGHT. RIGHT. WHICH IF WE DON'T SEE IT AND WE'RE THE ONES WITH THE DISCRETION, THEN IT'S BACK TO STAFF. MM-HMM . AND YOUR STAFF CAN'T COME TO GET CLOSER TO YOUR MICROPHONE. OH, CAN'T COME TO AN AGREEMENT. SORRY. WITH, UM, ACCEPTING THEIR INTERPRETATION. MM-HMM. THEN WE'RE BACK TO WHERE WE ARE. THAT'S RIGHT. AND WE'RE NOT HERE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT'S CORRECT. SO MUST WE RELIEVE THE PRESSURE BY TAKING IT OUT OF HER HANDS. THAT'S RIGHT. RIGHT. SHE HAS TO FOLLOW CODE AND DO HER JOB. WHAT'S THAT? SHE HAS TO FOLLOW CODE AND DO HER JOB AND SHE DOES IT WELL. RIGHT. RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT. AND THE APPLICANT CAN APPEAL. RIGHT. WE COULD SEE IT AGAIN IF IT APPEAL, IF THERE WAS AN APPEAL. RIGHT. THAT'S THE OTHER AVENUE TO US AFTER WHATEVER WE, WE STILL DON'T NOT, IT'S THE AMBIGUOUS START DATE OF THE END OF US. RIGHT. UM, THAT IS THE ACCESS BACK TO US IS YEAH. BUT NO, BUT SOMEONE ELSE HAS TO APPEAL. IS IT TRUE, KURT, THAT IF THIS COMMISSION DECIDED TO DENY IT, LET'S JUST GO THROUGH THESE OPTIONS. YEAH. YEAH. IF THE COMMISSION DENIED THIS PROJECT, IT COULD BE APPEALED, THEN IT WOULD COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION WITH THE, IF THE COMMISSION UPCOMING BILL IN THE FUTURE EFFECTIVE DATE. OH. UM, IF THE COMMISSION DENIED IT AND THEN WE WENT PAST THE START DATE UHHUH, UM, THEN IT WOULD, IT WOULD BE, WELL IT'D BE NICE. SO IF THEY APPEALED IT, THEY'D ALREADY BE APPEALING IT TO CITY COUNCIL, THEN OKAY. IF COMMISSION DENIED IT TODAY, IT GOES TO CITY COUNCIL. ALL RIGHT. RIGHT. BUT I WAS RECENTLY EDUCATED THAT IN ORDER TO HAVE AN APPEAL, APPRO I MEAN THERE'S DIFFERENT SORT OF GROUNDS FOR EVALUATING BETWEEN AN APPEAL AND A VARIANCE. CORRECT. YES. YEAH. SO, BUT WE'RE, WE'RE NOT DOING VARIANCES. RIGHT, EXACTLY. BUT LIKE, IF THEY APPEAL THE SPECIFIC DEFINITE, AND I MAY, I'M GONNA BUTCHER THIS BECAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S DIFFERENT GROUNDS, BUT AT FROM P AND Z ALL APPEALS GO TO CITY COUNCIL NO MATTER WHAT. RIGHT. BUT THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE THE, THE BASIS AND THE JUSTIFICATION FOR AN APPEAL MAY NOT REALLY BE IN ALIGNMENT WITH WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH TODAY. CORRECT. SO TECHNICALLY AN APPEAL COULD BE DENIED BECAUSE IT'S REVIEWED AND LOOKED AT FROM A DIFFERENT LENS. IT'S, UH, POTENTIALLY YES. BUT THAT'D BE UP TO CITY COUNCIL, UM, TO INTERPRET AND DECIDE. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR GARY. MM-HMM . [01:40:01] SO I WROTE DOWN SEVEN ITEMS FOR REASONS FOR DENIAL BASED ON WHAT HAS BEEN PRESENTED TODAY. ARE YOU COMFORTABLE IN REDUCING ANY OF THOSE AND TAKING THEM OFF THE LIST FOR DENIAL? WHAT ARE YOUR SEVEN? UH, THE DEVELOPER DID NOT IDENTIFY ALL NONCONFORMITIES. IT WAS NOT CLEAR ABOUT SETBACKS AND CHANGES. THE RESTAURANT AND EXISTING BUILDING DO NOT COMPLY WITH HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS. THE LENGTH OF THE BUILDING DOES NOT COMPLY. TRAFFIC STUDY NOT SUBMITTED. THE EXISTING BUILDING DOES NOT COMPLY WITH UNRELIEVED PLANES TRANSPARENCY, ET CETERA, AND SCIENCE SIGNAGE NOT COMPLIANT. SO I THINK YOUR NUMBER FIVE AND SIX, UM, THE TRAFFIC STUDY AND THE UN RELIED BUILDING PLANES, I THINK WE'VE GOTTEN CLEAR DIRECTION FROM. YEAH, I DON'T, UH, UM, THAT THERE'S, I WOULD HAVE TO, AGAIN, THE, THE FIRST FEW THAT YOU HAD, I KNOW THAT AGAIN, THAT THEY HAD REASONS WHY THEY BELIEVE THEY COMPLY. MM-HMM . I HAVE NOT HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THOSE TO DETERMINE IF RIGHT. YOU KNOW, THOSE CODE SECTIONS ARE BEING APPLIED CORRECTLY. AND WHAT WAS THE LAST ONE? THE SIGN SIGNAGE. SO THE SIGN ISSUE WAS THAT WHEN THEY PRINTED THEIR SIGN PLAN, THE THINGS DIDN'T LINE UP. THEY WERE SHOWING BUILDING SIGNS IN THE MIDDLE OF PARKING LOTS. AND SO WE HAD JUST ASKED FOR CLARIFICATION ON THAT. UM, WE ARE NOT LOOKING FOR, JUST TO CLARIFY, WE ARE NOT LOOKING FOR PRECISE SIGNS. WE WERE LOOKING FOR AREAS AND LOCATIONS ESSENTIALLY. UM, BUT THE DOCUMENTATION WE GOT WASN'T CLEAR. AND SO THAT WAS THE, THE ISSUE WITH THAT. SO IT WAS MORE THAT THAT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT THEY COULD PROVIDE A CLEARER PLAN OF LOCATIONS AND SIZES. SO IT WAS, IT WAS MORE A PLOTTING ISSUE OF GETTING THE RIGHT INFORMATION IN THE RIGHT PLACE ON THE DRAWING POTENTIALLY. YEAH. OKAY. I THINK IT MIGHT BE A LOT OF THAT. HOW ABOUT LENGTH OF THE BUILDING? HOW, HOW WOULD YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT ONE? UM, I, I REVIEWED THIS AS A SINGLE, THE HOTEL AND THE RESTAURANT EXPANSION AS A SINGLE BUILDING. 'CAUSE THEY ARE TOUCHING, SO I DON'T, ARE THEY TOUCHING? JUST NOT, ARE THEY SHARING ANY, THEY'RE STRUCTURALLY DIFFERENT, BUT ARE THEY ACTUALLY TOUCHING? THERE'S GONNA BE A LITTLE AIR GAP JUST 'CAUSE OF CONSTRUCTION. YEAH, YEAH. YEAH. AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY CODE ABOUT WHAT, I DON'T KNOW THAT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. TWO BUILDINGS ARE. I COULD SEE US BEING LIKE, SO AGAIN, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT CODE ON. OH MAN. OKIE DOKIE. SO WE'RE DOWN TO FOUR. UM, IF WE, IF WE'RE PLAYING THIS, IF WHEN GAME MM-HMM. IF WE GET A CONTINUANCE FOR EVERYBODY TO SIT DOWN IN A ROOM AND HAVE A NICE HEART TO HEART CHAT, KNOWING HOW WE ALL FEEL, HOW FAST CAN WE TURN THIS THAT'S ON THE APPLICANT? IS IT, LET, LET'S SEE. WHAT WE HAVE IS WHAT WE HAVE. WE'VE, WE'VE BEEN, I BELIEVE WE'VE BEEN PRESENTING THIS INFORMATION SINCE THE COMMENTS CAME OUT. SO OKAY. BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE STAFF ANALYSIS. YEAH. AND, AND SIGNS IN PARKING LOTS AND STUFF. YEAH. IF, IF THEY DON'T HAVE THAT UPDATED, YOU KNOW, JUST, I'M SURE IT'S JUST LIKE A MIS LAYERED FILE. RIGHT. RIGHT. BUT IF YOU'RE NOT IN THE SAME ROOM AND KNOWING THAT THAT HAPPENED, THEN YOU CAN'T FIX IT. UM, SO IF THEY CAN PROVIDE, YOU KNOW, THEIR PRESENTATION, WHICH I ACTUALLY ALREADY HAVE IT 'CAUSE THEY SENT IT TO ME. SO I DON'T EVEN NEED TO PROVIDE IT. I COULD PROBABLY GO THROUGH AND LOOK AT IT. I MEAN, GETTING IT BACK TO PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION BY THE FIRST MEETING OF DECEMBER IS REASONABLE. 'CAUSE WE HAVE THE MONTH OF NOVEMBER AND THEN, OKAY. WHAT'S OUR DATE FOR THIS HOUSE BILL THING? IT'S THE END OF THE YEAR. END OF THE YEAR. OH, OKAY. . OKAY. SO MAYBE, UM, IT WOULD BE, UM, WORTHWHILE TO CONSIDER A CONTINUANCE WITH THE APPLICANT PROVIDING TO YOU ALL THE THINGS THAT CAME UP THIS EVENING FOR REVIEW AND ANALYSIS AND A RETURN TO THE COMMISSION IN DECEMBER. YEAH. WITH THE CAVEAT THAT BASED ON HOW CURRENT CODE IS RIGHT NOW, THERE MAY STILL BE AN AREA OF DISCONNECT IN ORDER TO, YOU KNOW, BASED ON CARRIE DOING HER JOB. TRUE. AND YEAH, WE HAVE TO WORK WITH AN EXISTING CODE. YEAH. MM-HMM . HOW DO I MAKE A MOTION? I'VE NEVER DONE THIS. . DEPENDS ON WHAT IT IS. WHICH ONE YOU WANT? THIS ONE? UM, YES. MOTIONS ARE ON PAGE, UH, NINE. OH, THE STAFF REPORT. WHAT YOU'RE ASKING. UH, LET ME HOLD, LET ME GET TO THOSE. PAGE NINE. YEAH. THE ALTERNATIVE MOTION FOR APPROVAL. MM-HMM . IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT. YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. I MOVE FOR APPROVAL [01:45:01] OF CASE NUMBER PZ 24 DASH 0 0 0 5 BEST WESTERN EXPANSION. BASED ON THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS, WE DON'T HAVE FINDINGS, UH, THAT THE DEVELOPER HAS IDENTIFIED ALL NONCONFORMITIES OF EXISTING BUILDINGS. THAT THE EXISTING SETBACKS ARE WHAT THEY ARE. THAT THE RESTAURANT AND EXISTING BUILDING ARE SEPARATE FROM THE EXISTING BUILDING ARCHITECTURALLY AND THEREFORE DOES NOT NEED TO COMPLY WITH LENGTH RESTRICTIONS. AND THE GRAPHIC SHOWING THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING AS UNDER THE REQUIRED AMOUNT WITH THE OVERHANG. THE OTHER ITEMS FOR DENIAL HAVE BEENS, UH, STATED SATISFIED BY STAFF. I'LL SECOND THAT. OKAY. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. WE HAVE THREE. ALL THOSE? NO, I THINK YOU HAVE FOUR. I'M SORRY. IS THAT ONE DONE HERE? OKAY. FOUR. ALRIGHT. AND THOSE OPPOSED? AYE. NAY OPPOSED? SO ARE YOU OPPOSED? I WANNA, I WANT A CONTINUANCE. SO YOU'RE OPPOSED TO THIS MOTION. I I MEAN TECHNICALLY YOU'RE OPPOSED. OKAY. SO THE MOTION PASSES. FOUR THREE, THE NAMES ON. SURE. AYE THESE ARE A WE'RE DONE. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. LET'S TAKE A, UH, 10 MINUTE BREAK. COME BACK AT SIX 30. I STATED APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE. [5.b. Public hearing/discussion/possible action regarding an approval of a Conditional Use Permit Amendment (CUP) to expand the parking lot for the trailhead shuttle at 1294 & 1406 State Route 179 (North State Route 179 Trailhead Shuttle). The original CUP was approved in January 2023 under PZ22-00010 (CUP). The subject property is ±1.94 acres, and is located southwest of the intersection of State Route 179 and Bowstring Dr. APN: 401- 25-002N & P] WE'LL MOVE ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE B PUBLIC HEARING. DISCUSSION. POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING AN APPROVAL OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AMENDMENT TO EXPAND THE PARKING LOT FOR THE TRAILHEAD SHUTTLE AT 1 2 9 4 AND 1 4 0 6. STATE ROUTE 1 79 NORTH STATE ROUTE 1 79 TRAILHEAD SHUTTLE. THE ORIGINAL CUP WAS APPROVED IN JANUARY, 2023 UNDER PZ 22 DASH ZERO ZERO. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS PLUS OR MINUS 1.94 ACRES AND IT'S LOCATED SOUTHWEST OF THE INTERSECTION OF STATE ROUTE 1 79 AND BO STRING DRIVE, ARIZONA PARCEL NUMBER 4 0 1 DASH TWO FIVE DASH 0 0 2 N AND P. THIS IS CASE NUMBER PZ 24 0 0 0 9 CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. THE APPLICANT IS THE CITY OF SEDONA PUBLIC WORKS. JOHN HALL REPRESENTING THE CITY. UM, CARRIE DID YOU WANNA KICK US OFF? I CAN JUST INTRODUCE SOME PEOPLE. OKAY. UM, SO I AM JOINED AT THE TABLE BY JOHN HALL, OUR ENGINEERING SUPERVISOR, KURT HARRIS, OUR DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS CITY ENGINEER, AND AMBER WAGNER, OUR TRANSIT ADMINISTRATOR. IS THAT THE TITLE? OKAY. UM, THEY HAVE A PRESENTATION THAT GOES THROUGH THIS. MY PRESENTATION WAS A VERY SLIMMED DOWN VERSION OF THEIR PRESENTATION, SO I'M JUST GONNA LET THEM GO RIGHT INTO THEIRS. UM, BECAUSE THERE REALLY WASN'T ANYTHING AT IN MIND THAT WOULDN'T, IS NOT THERE. SO WE WILL JUST GO STRAIGHT TO THEM. THANK YOU CARRIE. I JUST WANTED TO, UM, MAKE A QUICK COMMENT ON THE PROCESS FOR THIS HEARING. UM, STAFF WILL MAKE A PRESENTATION. IT WILL COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR DISCUSSION, UM, COMMENTS, PERHAPS QUESTIONS AS WELL. AND THEN I'LL OPEN IT UP TO THE PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS. WE'LL TRY TO DO THAT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. 'CAUSE I KNOW YOU'RE HERE TO SPEAK AND I APPRECIATE THAT. AND THEN IT WOULD COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR A DECISION OR DISCUSSION AND A DECISION. SO, OKAY, JOHN. SO I'M ACTUALLY GONNA, OH, ANDY GONNA START OFF. . OKAY. I'M ANDY DICKEY. I'M THE DEPUTY CITY MANAGER AT THE CITY. I ACTUALLY SPENT MANY YEARS IN FRONT OF BUNNING AND ZONING, BUT, UH, IT'S BEEN A WHILE AND I DO HAVE NOTES, BUT MY COMPUTER DECIDED TO REBOOT ON ME , UH, RIGHT BEFORE WE STARTED HERE. SO I'M PRETTY SURE I REMEMBER MOST OF WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY. THANK YOU CARRIE, FOR INTRODUCING EVERYONE. I'M HERE BECAUSE THIS IS AN IMPORTANT PROJECT IN OUR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. IT'S A PART OF OUR PUBLIC TRANSIT AREA OF THAT CAPITAL PROGRAM. WE'VE BEEN OPERATING FOR THE PAST COUPLE YEARS AT THIS SITE, AND WE'VE NOTICED SOME IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE NEEDED FOR SAFETY, FOR EFFICIENCY, AND TO MAKE THE FACILITY MORE COMPATIBLE WITH THE ADJACENT NEIGHBORHOOD. OUR TEAM ARE HERE TO GO OVER THOSE IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE'RE PROPOSING AS PART OF THIS, UH, COP AMENDMENT FOR THIS PROJECT. AND I THINK [01:50:01] THAT'S MOST OF WHAT I HAD. SO I WILL ACTUALLY TURN IT OVER TO JOHN AND KURT AND AMBER TO GO OVER THE PROJECT WITH YOU. I'M SORRY, I FORGOT TO MAKE ONE COMMENT. UM, I LIVE IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, I DON'T HAVE A TECHNICAL LEGAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST, UM, BUT I WANTED TO PUT THAT ON THE RECORD. I KNOW I'VE DONE IT BEFORE WHEN THIS MATTER'S, COME BEFORE THE COMMISSION. AND ACTUALLY, I DO WANNA SAY ONE MORE THING. YOU ACTUALLY REMINDED ME, UH, CHAIR, I WANTED TO CONGRATULATE YOU ON YOUR SUCCESSFUL CAREER AT THE CITY HERE, BOTH ON THE COMMISSION AND AS PART OF OUR STAFF. THANK YOU ANDY. UH, THANK YOU CHAIR. KURT HARRIS, PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR, CITY ENGINEER. I ALSO WANNA MAKE SURE WE HAVE STEVE ERO FROM PARADIGM AND UNFORTUNATELY THE LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT THAT WAS GONNA JOIN US HAD A MEDICAL ISSUE, BUT WE DID PROVIDE SOME SLIDES THAT WILL PROMPT CARRIE TO SHOE SHOW AS PART OF OUR FIELD TRIP. SO WE CAN COVER THAT WHEN WE GET THERE. UM, AGAIN, UH, WE KIND OF HAVE A SCRIPT HERE, SO WE'RE BRINGING A FULL COURT FOR YOU GUYS TO MAKE SURE WE ASK ANY QUESTIONS. UM, I'LL DO GENERAL OVERVIEW AND THEN ALL THE DETAILED QUESTIONS WILL BE HANDLED BY JOHN, UH, ENGINEERING SUPERVISOR AND OF COURSE WITH STEVE. SO RIGHT NOW IS OUR, OUR PARKING ACCESS, PUBLIC SAFETY. IT'S, IT'S REALLY, LIKE WE MENTIONED, THIS IS A, A SAFETY ENHANCEMENT, BUT IT'S TO REALLY MAKE, UH, TO, UH, RIGHT SIZE THE PARKING LOT THAT MEETS THE CURRENT DEMANDS FOR TRANSIT AND OUR PARKING NEEDS. AND WITH YOUR INPUT, ALSO MEETING, UM, THE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY AND THE NEIGHBORS, AGAIN, ADDING THE SIDEWALKS, UH, AGAIN, REMOVING, UH, THE, THE, THE PEDESTRIANS FROM THE PARKING AREA TO SIDEWALKS FOR THEIR SAFETY AND SAFETY FOR THE BUS RIDERS, FOR INGRESS AND EXITING THE PARKING FEATURES. SO, UM, THERE'S, UM, THERE, I'M NOT GONNA READ THE POWERPOINT TO YOU. THEY'RE THERE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. UM, WE CAN JUST MOVE. THANK YOU. WE LOVE IT WHEN PEOPLE DON'T READ THEIR POWERPOINTS. , THAT'S, I GET IT. YOU'RE WELCOME. AGAIN, I'M JOHN HALL WITH, UH, UH, ENGINEERING SUPERVISOR. AND THE FIRST SLIDE IS CURRENT CONDITIONS. AND MOST OF YOU WERE AT THE SITE, UH, MEETING AT ONE O'CLOCK. THANKS. YOU, THANK YOU FOR GIVING US THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHOW YOU THE EXISTING CONDITIONS AND WHAT, AS YOU CAN SEE, UH, WE HAVE THREE MODES OF TRANSPORTATION. WE'RE TRYING TO SERVE IN ONE PARKING LOT. AND IT GETS THAT, THOSE THREE ARE CARS, SHUTTLE BUSES AND PEDESTRIANS. AND RIGHT NOW THEY'RE ALL USING THE EXACT SAME PAVEMENT. CAUSES A LOT OF CONGESTION, SOMETIMES SOME CHAOS. WE HAVE A NUMBER OF, UH, THINGS THAT WE NEED TO FIX. UH, UH, THERE'S, UH, NO TURNAROUND, UH, AT THE GATE FOR PEOPLE TO GET BACK TO THE HIGHWAY. IT'S CAUSES A LOT, AS YOU WELL KNOW, UNWANTED, UH, TRAVEL INTO THE RESIDENTIAL AREA. WE ALSO HAVE NO, UH, WE HAVE NO LOOPED PARKING LOT AT THE END OF THE PARKING LOT FOR TURNAROUND. THAT CAUSES A LOT OF CONFUSION. WE HAVE NO, UM, WE HAVE NO SIDEWALKS FOR THE PEDESTRIANS AND WE HAVE THE TRANSIT OPERATION TRYING TO WORK IN THE SAME VICINITY AS THE PE PEDESTRIANS AND THE CARS. SO IN THIS PRESENTATION, WE WANNA SHOW YOU HOW WE'RE GOING TO FIX THAT, WHY WE'RE GONNA FIX THAT, AND HOW IT'S GONNA INCREASE THE EFFICIENCY. ALSO TO ADD THE FACILITIES, WE HAVE A TEMPORARY TENT THAT YOU SAW OUT THERE, THE SHADE STRUCTURE. WE HAVE THE PORTA JOHNS, ALL THOSE WE WANT TO CHANGE OUT TO THE BRANDING THAT WE'RE INVITING TO THE CITY THAT HAS THAT RUST, UM, RED ROCK LOOK AND SO ON. SO WE REALLY WANTED TO MAKE THIS AN AMENITY. SO, PROPOSED EXPANSION. CAN I ASK, BOTH OF YOU HAVE REALLY LOW VOICES, SO SPEAK UP JUST A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO THE MIC. 'CAUSE I, I'M HAVING A HARD TIME HEARING YOU AND I CAN'T IMAGINE OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT BE AS WELL. OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH. SURE. HOW'S THAT? BETTER? YES. THANK YOU. WELL, JUST LIKE WE MENTIONED, UH, THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS TRYING TO SEPARATE THE INCOMING TRAFFIC, OUTGOING TRAFFIC AND SEPARATE THE TRANSIT. AGAIN, THESE ARE SAFETY FEATURES THAT WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO, WE HIGHLIGHTED THIS AS PART OF THIS IS NOT TO HAVE THAT PREVENT THAT SPILLOVER TRAFFIC AND THAT CIRCULATION EFFECT. WE DON'T WANT CARS TRAVELING AROUND LOOKING FOR A PARKING SPEC. UH, THEY'RE, THEY'RE PLATOONING AND FOLLOWING THE TRANSIT ON LOOKING FOR AVAILABLE SPACES. UM, THIS PART OF THIS PROJECT IS TO, TO, UH, REDUCE THAT AND, AND TRY TO, UH, IMPROVE THAT USE FOR THE USERS AND THAT FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THEN WE'RE GONNA GO TO SHUTTLE. SO THINK I'M GONNA HAVE TO [01:55:01] YEP. SIT OVER HERE TO, YOU'LL PROBABLY BE ABLE TO SPEAK TO THE MICROPHONE A LITTLE BETTER. YEAH, I CAN DO THAT. SO THIS SLIDE, EXCUSE ME. THIS SLIDE REALLY GETS TO THE HEART OF WHY THIS PROJECT MATTERS TO OUR TRANSIT SERVICES AND ABOUT HELPING THE SYSTEM AND OUR OPERATIONS WORK THE WAY THAT IT WAS INTENDED. THE GOAL IS TO DISTRIBUTE OUR SHUTTLE RIDERSHIP MORE EVENLY AND IMPROVE OUR OVERALL SYSTEM EFFICIENCY AND SAFETY OF OUR TRANSIT OPERATIONS. AT THIS PARTICULAR SITE. RIGHT NOW, OUR SHUTTLES HAVE OPEN SEATS IN THE MORNING BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN'T FIND A PLACE TO PARK. BY ADDING THESE ADDITIONAL SPACES, WE CAN KEEP VEHICLES MOVING, REDUCE CIRCULATION AND RECIRCULATION THROUGH NEIGHBORHOODS AND ON THIS CORRIDOR, WHICH CREATES CONGESTION. AND IT, WE CAN ALSO UTILIZE AND MAKE BETTER USE OF OUR SHUTTLE CAPACITY THAT WE HAVE. AND WE DO HAVE ADDITIONAL CAPACITY. OUR AVERAGE DAILY LIGHTINGS ON CATHEDRAL ROCK TRAILHEAD IS APPROXIMATELY 338, AND OUR CAP IS ABOUT 600 DAILY. THESE ARE LIGHTINGS THOSE THAT WE'RE TAKING TO THE TRAILHEADS. OUR AVERAGE DAILY LIGHTINGS ON LITTLE HORSE IS 162, WHICH IS RELATIVELY LOW, AND OUR CAP IS 500 ON THOSE. THIS IS ABOUT MANAGING OUR EXISTING DEMAND MORE EFFICIENTLY AND EFFECTIVELY. AND IT ALSO SUPPORTS THE GOALS OF OUR SEDONA IN MOTION, WHICH IS REMOVING THOSE BOTTLENECKS SUCH AS VEHICLE TURN AWAYS AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, THAT WE SEEK CONSISTENTLY ON THIS SITE AND AT THE SLOT WHILE IMPROVING OUR CONNECTIVITY AND HELPING PEOPLE GET WHERE THEY NEED TO GO WITHOUT ADDING TO CONGESTION. AND IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THIS IMPROVEMENT POSSIBLY COULD GIVE US ROOM TO ADAPT IN THE FUTURE ONCE WE TRACK HOW IT PERFORMS. THIS SITE COULD, COULD EVEN SUPPORT ADDITIONAL SERVICES POTENTIALLY LIKE GAVA, PA VISTA AND BELL ROCK. WE ARE REQUESTING THIS RIGHT SIZE EXPANSION TO STABILIZE CURRENT OPERATIONS AND GATHER PERFORMANCE DATA WE'RE TRYING TO DISTRIBUTE AND MOVE OUR VEHICLES ALREADY COMING TO THE LOT MORE EFFICIENTLY. OKAY. UM, SO HERE'S WHAT WE'RE PRO, OH, SORRY, I NEED TO GET USED TO THIS. SORRY. SO HERE'S WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING. HERE'S A SITE PLAN AND I DO HAVE A POINTER NOW. I THINK. YEAH, BE EASIER. I LIKE THIS ONE. OKAY. UM, SO YOU'VE SEEN THIS, I THINK, BUT, UM, LET ME EXPLAIN THAT. THIS IS THE ENTIRE, UM, PARKING LOT WITH THE IMPROVEMENTS SHOWN. THE, THE SHADED AREAS ARE NEW PAVEMENT OR EXISTING PAVEMENT THAT NEEDS TO BE RECONSTRUCTED DUE TO GRADING DIFFERENCES. AND THE REST OF IT IS, UH, EXISTING PAVEMENT THAT'S GONNA STAY AND RESURFACE TO, UH, TIDY IT UP. UH, AS I SAID, SOME OF THE SHORTCOMINGS THAT WE HAVE, WE TAKING EACH MODE OF TRANSPORTATION, UH, UH, UH, SEPARATELY. FIRST OF ALL, THE PEDESTRIANS THERE, THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO SIDEWALKS. NOW THEY'RE WALKING RIGHT DOWN THE AISLE OF THE, OF THE PARKING AREA NOW. SO NOW YOU CAN SEE ALONG THE LOWER SIDE, THE EAST SIDE OF THE, OF THE PARKING LOT, WE HAVE A SIDEWALK AND, UH, TO KEEP THEM AWAY FROM THE, THE, THE CARS. WE ALSO APPRECIATE, UH, THE COMMISSION'S, UH, SUGGESTION. UH, ON THE LAST MEETING, I THINK, UH, OF PROVIDING A, UH, SIDEWALK ON THE NORTH SIDE OF BOW STRING THAT WOULD CONNECT THE SHARED USE PATH THAT'S EXISTING ON THE HIGHWAY TO THE, UH, CHURCH OF THE RED ROCKS, UH, SIDEWALK UP TO THE, SO WE CAN SEE THAT WE ALSO HAVE, UH, TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF NO TURNAROUND AT THE GATE. WE HAVE EXTRA PAVEMENT RIGHT HERE. UH, SO CARS THAT COME IN BEFORE THEY GET TO THE GATE, IF THERE'S NO SPACE SPACES LEFT, UH, THEY CAN, UH, TRAFFIC CONTROL, UH, ASSISTANCE CAN BRING THEM, UH, WITH A U-TURN BACK TO THE HIGHWAY RATHER THAN, AS IT GETS REALLY CROWDED, THERE'S NO PLACE FOR THEM TO GO BUT INTO THE RESIDENTIAL AREA, DOWN TO ARROW TO GET BACK TO THE HIGHWAY. SO THAT'S GOING TO GREATLY REDUCE AND MINIMIZE THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC, UH, THAT IS GOING INTO YOUR, YOUR NEIGHBORHOODS. ALSO ON THE NO, NO TURNAROUND IN THE EXISTING CAR PARKING AREA HERE. RIGHT NOW, THE ONLY TURNAROUND THERE IS, IS THIS TRAFFIC CIRCLE HERE, POOR DESIGN, UH, TO NOT HAVE A TURNAROUND AT, AT THE BACK OF THE, OF THE PARKING LOT. SO IN DOING THAT, WE HAVE A LITTLE PARKING, [02:00:01] UH, LOOP TO PROVIDE NOT ONLY, UH, THE TURNAROUND, BUT AN EXTRA, UH, NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES. WE HAVE AN EXTRA 35 ALTOGETHER, UH, BECAUSE THE DEMOLITION OF THE TRAFFIC CIRCLE BRINGS US, UH, SOME ADDITIONAL PARKING AS WELL. UM, THE, THE LAST THING IS THE, IS THE SHUTTLE BUSES SEPARATING THEM NOT HAVING THE, THE, UM, THE OPERATION TO GO INTO THE PARKING LOT, BUT HAVE A SLIP LANE LIKE WE, WE MENTIONED IN THE LAST MEETING IF YOU ALL WERE HERE, UH, AND THAT IS GOING TO PROVIDE THE, UM, SHUTTLE BUSES TO HAVE THEIR OWN GATE. SO IT'LL ONLY BE BUSES COME DOWN HERE. RIGHT IN THIS AREA IS THE, UH, UH, RESTROOMS AND THE SHADE STRUCTURE WHERE THE, UH, CUSTOMERS AND PASSENGERS WOULD BE ABLE TO CONGREGATE AND WAIT IN AN AREA BETWEEN THE PARKING LOT AND THE SLIP LANE. SO THE, THE, THE PICKUP AND THE LIGHTINGS WOULD BE RIGHT IN THIS AREA. AND THEN THE, THE SHUTTLE BUSES WOULD COME IN HERE AND UTILIZE THE EXISTING BUS TURNOUT, UH, AS WE DISCUSSED IN THE MEETING, UH, AT, UH, AT THE, UH, THIS AFTERNOON. UH, THAT'S IT IN A NUTSHELL. UH, IF WE GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE. OH, GEEZ. IT'S, IF YOU HAD ANY QUESTIONS, WE COULD ZOOM IN HERE THAT THIS IS JUST A LITTLE BIGGER, UH, A BIGGER VERSION OF THE LAST SLIDE. IF YOU HAD ANY QUESTIONS THROUGHOUT THE, UH, PRESENTATION, DON'T HESITATE. I HAVE A QUESTION. YEAH. SORRY. CAN YOU REALLY, JUST QUICKLY, WITH YOUR POINTER, KIND OF SHOW AGAIN, THIS TURNAROUND LOOP WHERE WE HAVE FOLKS COMING IN, THEY'RE MAKING A LEFT, THEY CAN'T PARK, AND THEY'RE GONNA GO INTO THE NEW OH. UM, SO, 'CAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S A PORK SHOP ON. IF WE WERE TO TURN AROUND, ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO? YEAH. SO THIS, THE INGRESS COMING IN IS ON THIS SIDE OF THE, UH, CHANNELIZATION PORK CHOP, AS YOU SAY, IT COMES IN HERE AND THEY GO OUT HERE. RIGHT. ALL THINGS CLEAR. IF, IF, UH, IF YOU'RE COMING HERE AND TO DO A U-TURN, THERE'S NOT ENOUGH PAVEMENT TO DO THAT. SO WE'VE, WE'RE ADDING THIS, UH, PAVEMENT HERE SO THAT THEY CAN DO A U-TURN HERE. CURRENTLY, RIGHT NOW, AS YOU MAY KNOW, THEY COME IN HERE, THE TRAFFIC CONTROL ASSISTANT SAY, WELL, WE'RE ALL FILLED UP. YOU'VE GOTTA GO BACK TO THE HIGHWAY. AND THEY, THE ONLY WAY TO DO THAT IS TO BACK UP, DO A THREE POINT TURN AND GO THIS WAY. THAT'S WHAT CAUSES ALL THE CHAOS AND THE CONGESTION ARE, ARE THEY GONNA BE ABLE TO, WHEN THEY USE THAT EXTRA PAVEMENT, IS THAT GONNA BE JUST A RIGHT TURN ONLY? LIKE HOW ARE WE GONNA STOP THEM FROM A LEFT TURN INTO BOW STRING? OH, WELL, YEAH. IT'LL BE SIGNED RIGHT TURN ONLY. OKAY. UH, JOHN AND THE TRAFFIC CONTROL ASSISTANTS ARE THERE. OKAY. JOHN USHERING, RIGHT? SHE'S ASKING ABOUT THE PORK CHOP, HOW THE PORK CHOP WORKS. NO, I'M NOT, I'M ASKING ABOUT THE TURNAROUND. SO WHEN THEY TURN AROUND AND THEY'RE LEAVING, SHE WAS WORRIED THAT THEY MIGHT COME OUTTA HERE AND TURN LEFT, LEFT RIGHT. THAT, THAT'S WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO. SO, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GONNA GO DOWN THE PORK CHOP LANE, THEY'RE GONNA GO NEXT DOOR TO IT. WELL, AS THEY'RE COMING BACK OUT, THAT PORK CHOP WILL BLOCK. OH, I HAVE ONE THAT PORK CHOP WILL BLOCK AS THEY'RE COMING BACK OUT HERE. THIS IS BUILT IN A WAY TO BLOCK THAT LEFT TURN FROM HAPPENING HERE. WHICH BY THE WAY, WOULD THE COMMISSION PREFER THAT WE USE THE, I CAN'T DO IT FROM OVER HERE, BUT THE, THE MOUSE. 'CAUSE IT SHOWS UP ON THE BACK SCREEN TOO. OH, I KNOW. COUNCIL PREFERS THAT WHEN WE PRESENT, I CAN'T SEE IT AT ALL. SO THE MOUSE , EITHER ONE'S HARD TO SEE. YEAH, BOTH ARE HIGH. OKAY. THE SCALE'S TOO SMALL. OH, I JUST THOUGHT I WOULD, THE POINTER. I CAN SEE THE, I CAN SEE THE MOUSE. I CAN'T . OH, YOU CAN? OKAY. OKAY. LET'S GO WITH THE MOUSE. THERE IT IS. OKAY. SO THEY'RE GONNA TURN AROUND. YEAH. AND THEY'RE GONNA USE THAT EXTRA PAVEMENT, BUT THEN THEY'RE GONNA, SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER BE INTERESTED TO GET TOWARD THAT EDGE OF THAT PORK CHOP TO THE STOP SIGN. SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT, THERE'S NOT LIKE AN EXTRA LANE NEXT TO THAT EXIT LANE. WE WERE JUST KEEPING TO TURN AN EXTRA PAVEMENT TO MAKE THIS TURN. OTHERWISE THEY, WITHOUT THIS EXTRA PAVEMENT, THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET TO THAT. BUT YOU'RE, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, JOE, IS THAT ONCE YOU'RE HERE, THERE'S NOTHING TO CON CONSTRICT YOU FROM TURNING LEFT HERE, BUT THE, THE TRAFFIC CONTROL ASSISTANCE WILL BE THERE TO USHER. RIGHT. 'CAUSE I CAN ALSO SEE A CONFLICT THERE WITH THE SHUTTLE. THE SHUTTLE COMES IN, PEOPLE ARE GOING RIGHT. THEY'RE NOT UP AND THERE'S A SHUTTLE. BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE BIGGEST COMPLAINTS, AS YOU ALL KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PROTECTING THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, IS THAT THOSE FOLKS TURNING AROUND AREN'T GOING LEFT, RIGHT? YEAH. YEAH. AND, AND RIGHT NOW, THE TCA, THE TRAFFIC CONTROL ASSISTANCE MM-HMM . ARE THERE, BUT THEY CAN'T HARDLY USHER ANYBODY TO GO BACK WHEN IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND THAT CORRECTLY. THAT'S GONNA BE POSSIBLE. OKAY. SO, SO THEY'LL BE ABLE TO, UH, BE A LOT MORE SUCCESSFUL. GREAT. THANK YOU. YEAH. I [02:05:01] HAVE A QUESTION. IS, IS THIS THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE, UH, RENDERED PLAN? 'CAUSE THE RENDERED PLAN DOESN'T SHOW THIS, AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THIS IS THE ONLY CHANGE FROM THE RENDERED PLAN. YOU MEAN THE LANDSCAPE RENDERING, UH, VIEWS THAT WE DID? YEAH. IT DOESN'T SHOW ALL OF THIS STUFF. CORRECT. AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THERE WEREN'T ANY OTHER CHANGES THAT I SHOULD NOTE. 'CAUSE THE RENDER PLAN IS, IS VERY HELPFUL. YEAH, I WAS GONNA ASK THAT ABOUT HOW THIS CHANGES WITH THE TREE COUNT. 'CAUSE THE TREE COUNT DOES NOT HAVE THE PORK CHOPPING CLOUD INCLUDED. YEAH. STEVE OROS IS GONNA HELP WITH, UH, WITH EXPLAINING THAT. UM, BUT THE, YEAH. IN FACT, LET'S GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE. OH, AND LET'S, DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER, OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS? MANAGING CAPACITY LITTLE MUSICAL CHAIRS GOING, MUSICAL CHAIRS. , I DON'T THINK I NEED A POINTER IN TERMS OF MANAGING CAPACITY IN OUR VISITOR FLOW. HERE'S HOW WE ARE GONNA FOCUS ON HOW THIS OPERATION WORKS DAY TO DAY AND HOW THIS PROJECT CAN IMPROVE IT. EACH OF OUR SHUTTLES CARRIES ABOUT 25 PEOPLE THAT'S 20 SEATED AND FIVE STANDING, AND THEY RUN A FREQUENCY OF EVERY 15 MINUTES. THAT STUDY FREQUENCY IS WHAT MAKES PARK AND RIDE SYSTEMS WORK WITH THIS FREQUENT PICKUP. AND IT'S THE SAME APPROACH THAT'S USED SUCCESSFULLY IN PLACES LIKE ZION AND OTHER HIGH RECREATIONAL USE AREAS THAT UTILIZE SHUTTLE SERVICES. UH, IF SOMEONE DOES HAVE TO WAIT 15 MINUTES FOR THE NEXT SHUTTLE AT THIS LOT, THAT'S STILL MUCH BETTER THAN HAVING CARS CIRCLING OUR NEIGHBORHOODS OR BACKING UP TRAFFIC ON 1 79. AND IN THE ADDITION, IT'S A SAFE AREA. WE'VE ADDED SHADING, UH, WAITING AREA AND SEATING AND BATHROOMS, AMENITIES AS WELL AS WATER ACCESS AND A WATER FILLING STATION THAT WOULD MAKE THIS SHORT WEIGHT COMFORTABLE AND SAFE. AND WITH THIS NEW DESIGN, OUR SHUTTLES WILL HAVE THEIR OWN DEDICATED LANE THAT WOULD SEPARATE FROM CARS AND PEDESTRIANS ENTERING OR EXITING THE LOT, WHICH GREATLY IMPROVES SAFETY AND KEEPS EVERYTHING MOVING EFFICIENTLY. SO THIS IS, UH, THIS IS THE, UH, SALVAGE PLAN. YOU REMEMBER WHEN WE WERE IN, IN THE FIELD, NOT TO CONFUSE YOU TOTALLY, BUT WHEN WE WERE IN THE FIELD, RED MEANT RELOCATE, WHITE MEANT PROTECT AND SAVE, AND BLUE MEANT DESTROY. NOW, , OH NO. JUST TO KEEP YOU ON YOUR TOES. NO, NO. WITH THE EXHIBIT COLOR SCHEME, RELOCATION IS GREEN AND, AND THE, UM, THE ONES THAT ARE WHITE WITH, UH, FENCES AROUND IT, THOSE ARE THE ONES TO SAVE AND PROTECT. THAT'S FOR THE FENCING. AND RED NOW MEANS THAT IT'S OUT DESTROYED. REMOVE, REMOVE OFFSITE. OKAY. AND WHAT DOES BLUE MEAN? PARDON? THERE IS NO BLUE, BUT THERE'S BLUE. OH, ON THIS CASE? YEAH. OH, OKAY. GOODNESS GRACIOUS. JOHN WAS JUST DESCRIBING THE DIFFERENT, BY THE WAY, STEVE ROS A PARADIGM DESIGN. UH, OUR FIRM DID THE ARCHITECTURE AND, UH, CIVIL ENGINEERING. UM, THE, UH, WE DO HAVE SOME OTHER SLIDES THAT, UH, PROBABLY ARE, UH, BETTER TO, UH, DESCRIBE THE TREES THAT ARE STAYING, THE TREES THAT ARE GETTING REMOVED AND THINGS. SO, CARRIE, COULD YOU GO TO THOSE PDFS PLEASE? YEP. I'M TRYING. THERE YOU GO. THERE YOU GO. SO, UH, SINCE WE SPOKE THIS AFTERNOON, UH, THE LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT COMPANY WAS ABLE TO PREPARE THESE SLIDES AND IT SHOWS THIS ONE HAPPENS TO BE, I BELIEVE, THE EXISTING TREES TO PROTECT. SO THESE ARE THE WHITE ONES, AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE'S A LOT OF TREES GETTING PROTECTED ALONG THE FRONTAGE HERE. UH, AT THE ENTRY, THIS AREA HERE IS PROBABLY THE AREA THAT YOU WERE FOCUSING ON. UH, COMMISSIONER SMITH. UH, SO THERE'S ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE MORE TREES THAT WILL NEED TO BE CHANGING COLORS AND BE REMOVED UP HERE TO FACILITATE THAT U-TURN THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT. UH, THERE'S SOME TREES THAT ARE GETTING SAVED UP HERE WITH THE SIDEWALK EXPANSION. AND THEN THESE ON THE CORNER ARE, UH, REMAINING AS WELL. SO WE DON'T HAVE AN ACTUAL TREE COUNT FOR THE CHANGE WITH THE PORK CHOP. JUST IN IT'S KIND OF GENERALIZATION OF THOSE ONES, IT'S ABOUT FIVE LESS, FIVE LESS FIVE TREES BEING REMOVED. YES. YOU COULD YOU GO TO THE NEXT ONE? JOHN? [02:10:03] REMOVE, UH, THESE ARE ALL THE, THE LOCATIONS OF THE NEW TREES THAT WE'RE ADDING. UH, SO WE, WE HAD THE PROTECT AND PLACE TREES, AND THEN THESE ARE ALL THE TREES THAT WE'RE ADDING TO THE PLAN, UH, CURRENTLY. UM, AND IT'S BASICALLY, UH, THESE GUYS HERE ARE IN EXISTING ISLANDS THAT WE SAW THAT DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN 'EM RIGHT NOW, EXCEPT FOR SOME OLD IRRIGATION AND SOME, UH, LOW LEVEL LIGHTING, UH, THAT'S IN THERE. SO WE'RE ADDING THE SHADE TREES INTO THOSE AREAS? YES. ARE YOU ABLE TO DISPLAY, REMOVE AN AD ON THE SAME, UM, SCREEN? UH, NOT RIGHT THIS SECOND , ARE THOSE, BECAUSE IF, IF THESE ARE ADS YES. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S BEEN REMOVED MM-HMM . AND IT, IT'S AN INCOMPLETE PICTURE. I THINK PICTURE, I THINK IF WE GO TO THE NEXT, NEXT ONE IS THE REMOVALS. CAN YOU DO ONE? CAN I ASK A QUESTION ABOUT ONE? CAN YOU DO 'EM SIDE BY SIDE AT ALL? ARE YOU ABLE TO SCREEN THEM SIDE BY SIDE? HARRY MIGHT. HUH? WHICH ONES DO ? ARE, ARE ALL THOSE, ARE ALL THOSE TREES THAT ARE GOING TO BE ADDED? UH, ARE THEY AN EVERGREEN? ARE THEY ALL THE SAME KIND OF TREE? WHAT ARE WE, WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE THEY THREE FOOTERS? WHAT IS IT? DIAMETER? THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. I THINK WE'VE COMMITTED TO DOING NATIVE TREES. CORRECT. UM, AND THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REQUIRES TREES TO BE EIGHT FOOT, EIGHT FEET TALL. I UNDERSTAND. BUT BEYOND THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, I'D LIKE TO KNOW IF THEY'RE EVERGREEN TREES OR NOT, BECAUSE IN THE WINTER MM-HMM . UM, THE, THE NON EVERGREENS DON'T DO A DAMN THING. CORRECT. IN TERMS OF VISUAL AND NOISE BUFFER. EXACTLY. AND TO SPEAK TO THAT, IT'S KIND OF A REPEAT OF THE PREVIOUS CONVERSATION OF THE CODE IS LIMITING, UH, THE, THE TREE SPECIES, UH, IN MANY REGARDS. SO EVERGREENS HAVE BEEN TALKED ABOUT AS BOTH A SOUND, UH, AND VISUAL, UH, BARRIER IMPROVEMENT. UH, SO IF THERE'S A DESIRE TO ADD MORE EVERGREEN OR NON DECIDUOUS TREES, WE COULD INCORPORATE THOSE INTO THE PLAN. SO, THANK YOU. CONTINUE. OKAY. UH, SO WE HAVE THE, IS THE, IS THE ORANGE ONE THE REMOVED? YES. OKAY. SO ON THE LEFT WE HAVE THE, UH, EXISTING, UH, THESE ARE THE EXISTING TREES THAT ARE STAYING EXCEPT FOR THESE FIVE UP HERE. AND ON THE RIGHT WE HAVE CLUSTERS WHERE THE BUS BYPASS LANE IS. SOME TREES NEED TO BE REMOVED TO, UH, PROVIDE THAT SOME TREES NEED TO BE REMOVED TO PROVIDE THE RESTROOM FACILITY. SOME TREES NEED TO BE REMOVED TO PROVIDE THE SHADE STRUCTURE, WHICH IS, UH, A BETTER PLACE TO WAIT THE UP TO 15 MINUTES, UH, TO GET TO THE NEXT SHUTTLE. AND THEN THERE'S A FEW TREES IN HERE WHERE THERE'S SOME, UH, CONCRETE GATHERING AREA. UH, AND THE WATER, UH, I THINK THE WATER, UH, FILLING IS UP HERE ON, UH, NEXT TO THE, UH, SHADE STRUCTURE ON THE NORTH END. AND THEN OBVIOUSLY THIS TREE IS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE EXISTING TURNAROUND, UH, WHICH IS, NEEDS TO BE REMOVED. THIS TREE, AND SOME OF THESE IN HERE ARE TO FACILITATE THE PEDESTRIAN, UH, SIDEWALK, WHICH IS A SAFETY IMPROVEMENT. AND THEN LASTLY, THESE TREES DOWN HERE, SORRY, JOHN , UH, IS THE, UH, NEEDED TO BE REMOVED FOR THE, UH, PARKING, UH, UH, CIRCULATION. AND THE, UH, UH, LOOP THAT JOHN HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT, WHERE PEOPLE CAN COME AROUND, TURN AROUND SAFELY, AND THEN, UH, CONTINUE OUT. CAN, CAN YOU PUT UP THE REPLACEMENT TREES NEXT TO THE REMOVED TREES? SO, CLOSED EXISTING, DON'T MOUSE IS PROBABLY EASIER. SO, WHICH ONES? I WANT THE NEW TREE PLANTINGS, THE PURPLE NEXT TO REMOVAL. THERE YOU GO. YEAH. LIKE THAT. YEAH. OKAY. SO THANK YOU. OKAY. SO IT, I HAVEN'T DONE, SORRY. I'M THE CIVIL, UH, AND ARCHITECTURE SIDE OF THINGS. I HAVEN'T DONE THE EXACT COUNT OF THE PLUS AND MINUS BETWEEN WHAT'S BEING, UH, REMOVED AND ADDED. UM, IT LOOKS PRETTY CLOSE TO EQUAL. UH, MAYBE THERE MIGHT BE A FEW MORE TREES REMOVED, ESPECIALLY IF WE ADD IN THE FIVE UP IN HERE. MM-HMM . UH, BUT THESE ARE THE, THE MAJOR, UH, TREES, UH, SIZE, UH, ELEMENTS. UH, THERE'S ALSO SOME ADDITIONAL LOWER SHRUBS AND THINGS THAT ARE PART OF THE PLAN THAT FILL IN SOME OF THE, UH, GAPS. UH, BOTH FOR, UH, [02:15:01] AND I KNOW WE SPOKE ABOUT THIS AT THE, UH, SIDEWALK THIS AFTERNOON. UH, THERE'S ALSO AN ELEMENT FOR THE TREES OF, UH, IMPROVING THE FIREWISE, UH, AND REDUCING THE POTENTIAL FOR, UH, FACILITATING OR EXPANDING FIRE. SO THERE'S SOME TREE MANAGEMENT AND TRIMMING THAT'S GOING TO OCCUR, WHICH OPENS UP THE BOTTOM. BUT THEN WE HAVE SOME OF THE SMALLER SHRUBS AND THINGS THAT ARE PART OF THE LANDSCAPE PLAN, WHICH FILL THOSE LOWER AREAS IN WHICH HELP WITH SCREENING AND THE NOISE AS WELL, WHILE ADDRESSING THE, THE FIREWISE FEATURES. SO IS THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE COLORED DOTS? ? NOT ABOUT THE DOTS. OKAY. . BUT I DO HAVE A QUESTION. I ASKED IT THIS MORNING AND I KIND OF WANTED TO GET A, A FIRMER ANSWER. OKAY. SO I WAS HOPING THAT THERE'D BE SOME CONSIDERATION FOR SOME KIND OF A FENCING IN FRONT OF WHERE THE CARS ARE SO THAT YOU DON'T SEE FROM 1 79. YOU DON'T SEE, UH, THE FRONTS OF THE CARS AND THE GLARE FROM THEM. AND WHAT I WAS TOLD WAS, WELL, IF WE'RE GONNA DO THE PLANTING, AND IF THAT DOESN'T WORK, THEN WE CAN LOOK AT SOMETHING LIKE THAT. UM, AND THEN THERE WAS A THING ABOUT FIRE WISE AS WELL, SO AS A FENCE FOR THIS, BUT YOU COULD HAVE A METAL RUSTED FENCE. MM-HMM . SO WE HAVE THE RUSTED MOUNTAINS OVER HERE AND THE RUSTED FENCE HERE PROBABLY LOOK VERY GOOD. UM, THAT WOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM FOR FIREWISE. UM, IS THERE A REASON THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO INITIALLY INCORPORATE SOMETHING LIKE THAT INTO THE PLAN? FROM WHAT, UH, THE LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT, UH, WE DID TALK ABOUT THAT EXACT, UH, FEATURE. AND WHAT HE WAS SAYING IS THAT WHEN THE TREES ARE TRIMMED UP TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY, UH, REDUCE THE CHANCE OF ENHANCING A FIRE, THAT THE LOWER SHRUBS AND BUSHES THAT ARE PUT IN PLACE ARE AT THE THREE FOOT HEIGHT OR SO, WHICH IS ABOUT THE, UH, UH, HEADLIGHT HEIGHT. AND THAT WOULD REPLACE THAT. IT'S ALSO MORE OF A NATURAL FEATURE, UH, AND NOT A MANMADE FEATURE BEING ADDED INTO A NATURAL ENVIRONMENT. SO THAT WAS THE GENERAL DIRECTION THAT, UH, WE WENT, IS WE WANTED TO STAY NATURAL AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. MM-HMM . BUT THERE IS NOTHING NATURAL ABOUT ALL THOSE CARS, YOU KNOW, . RIGHT. AND, AND AT THE SITE VISIT, THAT'S WHAT KURT WAS EXPLAINING TO YOU. WE COULD, UH, REVISIT THAT AFTER THE FACT, AFTER WE FINISH THIS, SEE HOW THIS WORKS, THEN WE CAN GET YOUR, UM, YOUR COMMENTS, UH, AT THAT TIME. AND COUNCIL'S COMMENTS ON HOW IT LOOKS. WE COULD ALWAYS ADD MORE, UH, LOW, LOW, MID-SIZE, UH, BUSHES AND WE COULD POSSIBLY DO THE FENCE. IT'S, IT'S AN OPTION. SO IS THAT LIKE A COMMITMENT TO COME BACK TO THE PNZ AND, AND, AND ASK US WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT? NO, I DON'T THINK SO. BUT MAYBE AT THIS TIME WE WOULD. UH, THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER HURST, UH, KURT HARRIS, PUBLIC WORKS DIRECT CITY ENGINEER. SO THE INTENTION OF OUR DISCUSSION THIS MORNING WAS WE'D LIKE TO START WITH THE VEGETATION BARRIER AND USE THAT AS A NATIVE POINT. BUT IF IT BECOMES A PROBLEM, LIKE I MENTIONED, IF WE'RE GETTING NUISANCE ISSUES, IF WE'RE GETTING PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO CAMP IN THERE, IF WE'RE GETTING OTHER ISSUES LIKE UH, PACK RATS, THOSE KIND OF MAINTENANCE ISSUES, YES. WE AS A CITY CAN LOOK BACK OR DOING A BARRIER FENCE ALONG THAT SIDEWALK. THE BIGGER CONCERN IS WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE GOING FROM THE SHARED USE PATH OF 1 79 AND INGRESSING AND EGRESSING THROUGH THE VEGETATION. IT'S GONNA DESTROY THE VEGETATION, IT'S GONNA CREATE A SOCIAL PATH. THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE WERE GONNA IDENTIFY AS THE TRIGGER TO DO SOMETHING AS A MORE STRUCTURE, A BARRIER. I UNDERSTAND THAT. I WAS ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT THE AREA RIGHT IN FRONT OF WHERE THE CAR IS PARKED, NOT, NOT OUT WHERE THE WALKWAY IS. SO THERE'S, YEAH. AND THAT'S WHERE THE, WHERE YOU SEE THE SIDEWALK IS, THAT WOULD BE THE PERFECT PLACE TO DO THAT BECAUSE THEN WE'RE GONNA KEEP THE PEOPLE ON THE SIDEWALK AND THEN THAT'S A VISUAL CUE FOR THEM TO FOLLOW THE SIDEWALK TO WHERE WE WANT 'EM TO GO. UM, ESPECIALLY IN LOW LIGHT CONDITIONS. IF IT'S CROWDED THAT WAY, WE'RE PROVIDING THAT LITTLE, UM, GUIDANCE THAT WAY. FINDING FOR THE, THE, THE PED TO GET FROM THE CAR TO THE TRANSIT AREA AND THEN RETURN. THAT'S OUR INTENTION. IS IT, IS IT A COST ISSUE AS TO WHY WE CAN'T JUST DO IT NOW? UM, YEAH, THAT'S PART OF THIS. WE WANT TO PROVIDE VALUE, BUT TALKING WITH THE ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS, WE WANTED TO USE VEGETATION AS THE BARRIER. GO AHEAD. I THINK, OH, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY WILL HAS AN INCREDIBLY GOOD POINT ABOUT DECIDUOUS AND EVERGREEN. AND IT LOOKS LIKE ON THE NATIVE CITY APPROVED TREE LIST, THERE'S 13 APPROVED SPECIES, EIGHT OF THEM ARE EVERGREEN. SO IT SEEMS LIKE WE COULD [02:20:01] MAKE A REAL EFFORT WILL TO TRY AND MAKE THOSE EVERGREEN. CORRECT. I I WAS JUST GONNA MENTION THAT IF THE OVERALL COMMISSION WOULD PREFER A FENCE VERSUS SHRUBBERY, IT'S NOT SUCH A, A COST INCREASE THAT WE COULDN'T PURSUE THAT. SO WE ARE OPEN TO THAT IF THAT'S THE PREFERENCE. I LIKE BOTH . WHAT'S THAT LIKE? BOTH. YEAH. YEAH. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE IT'S, EVEN IF IT WAS LIKE A RUSTED METAL FENCE, SOME GREENERY WITH THAT IS, IS VERY ATTRACTIVE. IT COULD BE A PIECE OF ART. SURE. YEAH. AND ELSEWHERE IN THE PROPOSAL YOU TALK ABOUT ART, SO YEAH. UM, I LIVE ACROSS FROM ANTE AND NEAR TREE PLANNING, WHICH KNOWING FROM A GARDENING PERSPECTIVE, PUTTING THOSE EVERGREENS SO CLOSE TOGETHER IS GONNA BE A PROBLEM IN THE FUTURE. IT DOES DEFINITELY, YOU KNOW, DEAD IN THE SOUND DOES REDUCE THE LIGHT. UM, IT HAS BEEN QUITE EFFECTIVE. I DON'T SEE, I DON'T SEE LIKE THE LARGE ESCALADE THAT PICKS UP, UM, OH, PATRONS. I DON'T SEE THE STORAGE OF, OF PATRONS VEHICLES. I DON'T HEAR OR SEE THE CARTS THAT GO AROUND ALTE AND I LIVE LIKE RIGHT THERE. I DON'T, I DON'T LIVE UP THE HILL. I LIVE RIGHT THERE. UM, SO I CAN SEE WHERE THE EVERGREENS IS, IS A REAL GOOD PLUS, PLUS THE BUSHES TO NEGATE THAT. AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT WILL'S SAYING, YOU KNOW, HEY, IT'S A EYESORE. YOU'RE DRIVING DOWN, ALL OF A SUDDEN THE SUN GLARES IN SOMEONE'S WINDSHIELD. NOT THE HEADLIGHTS SO MUCH AS THE WINDSHIELD. 'CAUSE MOST PEOPLE SHOULD BE GONE BY DARK. UM, AND SO I HEAR WHAT WILL IS SAYING, BUT THAT'S STILL PRETTY HIGH. UM, I, I'M LEANING TOWARD VEGETATION. I'D RATHER SEE IT EVOLVE BECAUSE I KNOW THIS IS KIND OF, ISN'T THE IDEA OF THIS GONNA BE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN MIMIC THROUGHOUT THE CITY? IS THAT CORRECT? IT WILL DEFINITELY INFORM OTHER PARK AND RIDE LOCATIONS AND OUR DESIGN. WE DO TEND TO WANT TO BE CONSISTENT, SO. OKAY. ALRIGHT. GREAT. THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY LIGHTS, UM, IN THE PARKING LOT THAT WOULD BE ON IN THE EVENINGS FOR SECURITY OR ANY NO. ANY KINDA LIGHTING? THERE ARE SOME OLD, UM, BOLLARD LIGHTS, UH, THAT ARE NO LONGER WORKING AND WE HAVE NOT PUT THAT IN THIS PROJECT BECAUSE IT'S CLOSED AT NIGHT. MM-HMM . THE PARKING LOT. SO WE REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY USE FOR IT. OKAY. I'M JUST WONDERING, IT'S ALL LOCKED UP. I MEAN, THAT'S GATED AND SECURED IN THAT NEED FOR SOMETHING TO BLOCK IT. YEAH. MY, YOU KNOW, MY QUESTION IS REALLY BACKING UP. I MEAN, WE'RE PRESENTED WITH, UM, A PLAN TO INCREASE THE CAPACITY THERE AND DO SOME COOL THINGS WITH THE SLIP LANE AND ALL THAT AND IMPROVE EFFICIENCY. BUT IT'S SORT OF LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, TO A HAMMER, EVERYTHING LOOKS LIKE A NAIL. I MEAN, TO A PUBLIC WORKS GUY, YOU GOTTA FIX, YOU GOTTA BUILD SOMETHING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. AND I'M NOT SURE THAT ALL THE OTHER ALTERNATIVES HAVE REALLY BEEN EXPLORED THAT THEN REQUIRE THIS TO BE DONE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE BUDGET FOR THIS IS. UM, BUT I I'M SURE IT'S SEVERAL MILLION. EVERYTHING IS, UM, YOU DID TALK ABOUT AN ON DEMAND SYSTEM THAT YOU MIGHT, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT YOU WOULD INITIATE, TRY TO INITIATE ALSO, BUT, AND YOU DISCOUNTED THE IDEA OF ADDING ANY MORE SHUTTLES, UH, WITH THE FREQUENCY OF EVERY 15 MINUTES. I'M NOT SURE HOW VIABLE THAT WOULD BE ANYWAY, BUT IT SEEMED TO JUST BE DISCOUNTED. I REALIZE THIS IS NOT THE TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION, THIS IS THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION. AND SO, BUT, YOU KNOW, TRANSPORTATION OR TRANSIT IS YOUR CLIENT HERE AS IS THE PUBLIC AND PUBLIC WORKS IS SATISFYING THAT, THAT ISSUE FOR TRANSIT. BUT YOU'RE OVER BOTH. RIGHT. SO DO YOU FEEL LIKE THERE ARE SOME OTHER THINGS THAT COULD BE DONE OPERATIONALLY THAT WOULD PERHAPS PUT THIS OFF FOR A WHILE? I MEAN, IS THIS THE MAXIMUM CAPACITY? YOU'RE NOT GONNA COME BACK AGAIN AND, AND THINK YOU CAN FIT IN MORE, MORE PARKING SPACES? RIGHT. IT'S DEFINITELY NOT ON OUR RADAR TO DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT. BUT, BUT YOU KNOW, THAT MIGHT BE A GREAT QUESTION FOR AMBER. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE AMBER HERE, OUR TRANSIT ADMINISTRATOR. I, I AM OVER THE PROGRAMS, BUT I LIKE TO HONOR OUR EXPERTS IN OUR DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS. SO WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADDRESS WHAT WE'RE DOING? YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. UM, AND I WAS GONNA TALK ABOUT IT IN THE SLIDES WITH THE, EXCUSE ME, HOPEFULLY YOU CAN HEAR ME. UH, JUST SOME OF THE OTHER WAYS WE'RE TRYING TO PROMOTE ALTERNATIVE USE. UH, [02:25:02] COULD I JUST ASK FROM A PROCEDURE STANDPOINT, WOULD THE COMMISSION LIKE TO US TO GO AHEAD AND PROCEED YEAH. INTO THE PRESENTATION THAT MIGHT COVER THESE ISSUES? WE COULD FINISH UP WITH, UH, THE LANDSCAPING. WE STILL HAVE THE RENDERINGS, UH, UH, THE ARTIST'S IMPRESSION OF WHAT IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE FROM THE STREET, WHICH YOU'VE SEEN. UH, I, I'M HAPPY TO WAIT THEN WE CAN GET UP THE NUMBERS, UH, AFTER THAT. SURE. OKAY. SURE. . CARRIE, IS THERE ANY, OH, I, YOU CAN HAVE MY SEAT. . I'M NOT TALKING CARRIE. IS THERE ANY CODE AROUND TREES? LIKE, I KNOW WHEN I WAS WORKING IN LA IT WAS, IF YOU REMOVE ONE, YOU PUT TWO BACK. UM, NO, WE DON'T HAVE THAT. OKAY. WE HAVE, SORRY, I WAS GETTING MY SEAT BACK. UM, POOR CARRIE. GEEZ. UM, OUR REQUIREMENT IS ONE TREE FOR EVERY 400 SQUARE FEET OF LANDSCAPED AREA. UM, WE ARE LOOKING AT THAT WITH OUR SUSTAINABILITY DEPARTMENT AS WELL BECAUSE, UM, AS FIREWISE AND THAT HAS BEEN MENTIONED, THERE'S A LOT OF SENSITIVITY AROUND OVER VEGETATING MM-HMM . AND SO WE'RE CONSTANTLY LOOKING IS, IS THAT THE RIGHT AMOUNT? WE DON'T WANT TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, THE FIRE DISTRICT COMES BACK IN A COUPLE YEARS AND SAYS YOU CREATED A FIRE HAZARD, REMOVE THEM. UM, SO WE DON'T HAVE A REPLACEMENT REQUIREMENT AND, UM, WE'RE VERY SENSITIVE TO OVER PLANTING RIGHT NOW. GOT IT. OKAY. ? SURE. UM, AFTER THE LAST, UH, HEARING, UH, IT WAS REQUESTED THAT WE DO SOME VISUAL SIMULATIONS, WHICH WE'VE PROVIDED, UH, FIVE VIEWS OF THE SITE THAT GIVE REPRESENTATIVE VIEW OF, UH, WHAT THE PROJECT COULD LOOK LIKE, UH, WITH THE LANDSCAPE PLAN PROPOSED. SO DO YOU WANNA GO THROUGH THOSE, JOHN? SO THIS IS THE, THE CORNER VIEW AT BO STRINGING AND 1 79. UM, I THINK WE ALREADY SAW THE HYDRANT OUT THERE TODAY. AND, UM, THE UTILITY BOX RIGHT THERE. UM, THIS IS, UH, THERE IS SOME VEGETATION BACK IN HERE THAT'S GETTING REMOVED, UH, BUT WE'RE ALSO ADDING, UH, THE TREES UP IN HERE TO, UH, RESCREEN THAT AREA BEHIND THE, UH, UH, DRAINAGE BASIN HERE, WHERE IT GOES ACROSS THE STREET. UH, NEXT SLIDE. THIS IS A VIEW, UH, CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY? MM-HMM . IF I'M . UH, THIS IS A VIEW WHERE THE, UH, SHUTTLE, UH, LIGHTING IS AND THE, UH, CONNECTOR OUT TO THE WIDENED, UH, EXISTING, UH, UH, BUS PULLOUT ALONG THE FRONTAGE HERE. UH, ADOT HAS REQUESTED THAT WE WIDEN THAT, UH, TO PROVIDE A FULL TRAVEL LANE WITH THERE WHERE THE, UH, BUSES WOULD SIT. UM, THIS VIEW ALSO SHOWS, UH, THE, UH, SHADE STRUCTURE IN HERE, UH, WHICH REALLY DOES BLEND IN WITH ALL THE, UH, VEGETATION. UH, THE BUS STANDS OUT, WHICH IS GOOD 'CAUSE YOU CAN SEE THAT. UH, IT ALSO HAS THE SHARED USE PATH WHERE IT, UH, TURNS AND CROSSES AT MORE OF A PERPENDICULAR TO THE, UH, BUS LANE, WHICH IMPROVES THE PEDESTRIAN SAFETY. AND THEN THE SHARED USE PATH CONTINUES ALONG THE BACK OF THE, UH, BUS TURNOUT. UH, THIS IS, UH, TOWARDS THE END OF THE, UH, BUS TURNOUT. UH, AND THIS IS STARTING TO SHOW SOME OF THE LOWER, UH, VEGETATION THAT IS BEING PROPOSED ALONG HERE TO DO THE SCREENING. UH, AS, UH, COMMISSIONER HURST WAS MENTIONING ABOUT THE HEADLIGHTS AND, AND THE, UH, GLARE. UH, SO THAT'S IMPROVED HERE. 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW YOU CAN STILL SEE PORTIONS OF THE LOT THROUGH THE EXISTING LANDSCAPING THAT'S OUT THERE NOW, AND WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING AS ADDITIONAL TREES AND SHRUBS TO REALLY, UH, SCREEN IT. THIS IS A LITTLE FURTHER DOWN AGAIN, AND THIS IS SHOWING WHERE YOU CAN SEE SOME OF THE LOT, UH, NOW, UH, TO, THERE'S JUST A LITTLE PIECE HERE, UH, WHICH COULD HAVE SOME MORE, UH, LOWER SHRUBS IN HERE. AND THIS, UH, IS SHOWING, UH, THE EXISTING TREES SOME OF THE PROPOSED AND SOME OF THE LOWER SHRUBS, UH, THAT ARE, UH, PROPOSED NEXT. THIS IS DOWN AT THE SOUTH END AT THE ROUNDABOUT, UH, WHERE, UH, THERE'S THAT HYDRAS REFERENCE POINT WHERE THIS, UH, PATH, UH, COMES THROUGH. UH, YOU, YOU REALLY CAN'T SEE THE LOT TODAY. AND EVEN WITH THE EXPANSION, YOU'RE REALLY NOT SEEING THE LOT IN THE PROPOSED CONDITION WITH THE CLEANUP OF THE SHRUBS AND THE ADDITION OF THE NEW SHRUBS IN THROUGH HERE NEXT. AND THAT, UM, THAT, UH, SHADE STRUCTURE IS GONNA BE THE SAME COLOR, UH, COMBINATION AS, UH, [02:30:01] THE RESTROOMS. THIS IS THE RESTROOMS. IT, IT SHOWS, UH, FOUR UNITS AND A AND A, UM, UH, A MECHANICAL ROOM. IT'S ACTUALLY GONNA BE THREE. THIS IS, THIS IS A DRAWING, UH, THAT PARADIGM HAS, HAS PUT UP FOR US THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD BE, UM, APPLICABLE TO OTHER PARKLANDS WITHIN THE, WITHIN THE CITY. THIS IS HOPE, HOPEFULLY WILL BE OUR STANDARDIZED, UM, UH, STANDARDIZED RESTROOM FACILITY. IT'S BEEN APPROVED THROUGH COM. UH, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT. UH, THIS PARTICULAR ONE FOR THIS, UH, UM, FOR THIS SITE IS GONNA BE A THREE UNIT NINE FIXTURE, UM, FACILITY. UM, CAN YOU GO BACK WHEN YOU'RE DONE WITH THIS TOO, TO THE SHADE STRUCTURE? WE DON'T HAVE THAT IN OUR PACKET. THE SHADE STRUCTURE. RIGHT, RIGHT. WE ADDED THIS AFTERWARDS. OKAY. UH, YOU CAN SEE ON THE SHADE STRUCTURE, IT'S AN OPEN, UH, CANOPY TYPE STRUCTURE. AGAIN, IT'S GONNA BE THE SAME COLORS AS THE, UH, AND SAME BASIC, UH, ROOF STRUCTURE AS THE RESTROOMS. YOU CAN SEE IN THE, THE, THE PLANNED VIEW UP ON TOP THAT SHOWS THE BENCHES. AND YOU CAN SEE ON THE ELEVATIONS THERE'S A KIOSK IN BETWEEN THE BENCHES FOR SOME, UM, INFORMATIONAL SIGNAGE PROCEED. NOW WE GET BACK TO, UM, TO AMBER WITH TECHNOLOGY. YES. I FEEL LIKE I KEEP MOVING AROUND . SO THIS GOES BACK TO ANSWER HOPEFULLY SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS OR MIGHT ADDRESS IN TERMS OF OTHER, OTHER, LIKE PIECES TO THE PUZZLE AND OTHER THINGS THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT IN TERMS OF MARKETING AND OUTREACH THE NEXT TWO SLIDES. SO LET'S TALK ABOUT LIKE TECHNOLOGY INTEGRATION WITH THIS, WITH THIS LOT IMPROVEMENT, WHILE IT ISN'T NECESSARILY A SILVER BULLET, UH, TECHNOLOGY CAN BE PART OF THE PUZZLE AND A PIECE THAT MIGHT HELP WITH OUR SOLUTIONS. AND IT'S ONLY EFFECTIVE WHEN PAIRED WITH SOME OF THESE IMPROVEMENTS. UH, IF EXPANSION MOVES FORWARD, WE WOULD PLAN ON IMPLEMENTING A REAL-TIME OCCUPANCY MONITORING IN THIS PARTICULAR LOT. SO VISITORS THAT CHOOSE TO UTILIZE AN APP CAN SEE THE PARKING SPACE AVAILABILITY BEFORE ARRIVING. THIS WOULD REDUCE UNNECESSARY CIRCULATION AND IDLING AND IMPROVE BOTH TRAFFIC AND, UH, AIR QUALITY. WITHOUT THE IDLING AND THE RECIRCULATION. IMPLEMENTING THIS TECHNOLOGY AND EXPANDING TOGETHER IS DELIBERATE. UH, THEY WOULD COMPLIMENT ONE ANOTHER DURING THE CONSTRUCTION PROCESS. A TWO PHASED APPROACH WOULD INCREASE COST AND LIKELY DELAY THE TECHNOLOGY IMPLEMENTATION SINCE IT WOULDN'T BE AT THE PARKING LOT SPECIFICALLY, UH, WIRING AND CONDUIT WOULD NEED TO BE INSTALLED DURING THE IMPROVEMENT TO THE PARKING AREA. UH, THIS WOULD GIVE US DATA, UH, FOR THIS OCCUPANCY SYSTEM THAT WILL TRACK UTILIZATION AND ADJUST OUR OPERATIONS OVER TIME. SO THE, ONE OF THE PIECES OF THE PUZZLE, AS I TALKED ABOUT, WAS THE COMMUNICATION OUTREACH AND MARKETING AND MAKING SURE OUR VISITORS AND THOSE THAT WANNA UTILIZE THIS LOT KNOW THEIR OPTIONS BEFORE THEY EVEN START DRIVING. SO WE'RE CONTINUING AND WE HAVE BEEN MARKETING FOR BOTH THE SEDONA SHUTTLE CONNECT, WHICH IS OUR ON DEMAND MICRO TRANSIT SERVICE THAT JUST STARTED IN AUGUST OF LAST YEAR. AND WE'RE ALSO PROMOTING THE VERDE SHUTTLE, WHICH IS A FIXED ROUTE BETWEEN COTTONWOOD AND, UH, AND SEDONA THAT DOES ACCESS. THERE'S A BUS PULLOUT AT THIS SITE AND THAT COMES EVERY 50 MINUTES. THAT'S A 50 MINUTE FREQUENCY. WE SEE THAT VISITORS DON'T TEND TO UTILIZE THAT BECAUSE OF THE LOWER FREQUENCY LEVEL, BUT WITH OUR PARTNERSHIP WITH HOTELS, THE CHAMBER AND OUR TOURISM OFFICE, IT HELPS US REACH THESE VISITORS EARLY THROUGH IN-ROOM VIDEOS THAT WE'RE DOING. OUR LOBBY DISPLAYS, OUR SOCIAL MEDIA, AND IT ALL PROMOTES OUR PARK. ONCE MODEL THAT WE ARE, WE ARE WORKING TO COLLABORATE AND PROMOTE WITH OUR PARTNERS. SOME STATISTICS ABOUT OUR CURRENT CONNECT SERVICE. IN JUST THE FIRST YEAR OF OUR OPERATIONS, IT IS PROVIDED OVER 7,900 TRIPS. THIS ISN'T WITH PASSENGERS, THIS IS JUST TRIPS ONTO, INTO DIFFERENT ORIGINS AND DESTINATIONS. WE'VE HAD OVER 16,000 PASSENGERS AND 1200 OF THOSE 7,900 TRIPS WERE TO THIS SITE. SO ABOUT 15% WERE TO AND FROM THIS PARK AND RIDE LOT. AND THIS IS OUR NUMBER ONE DESTINATION ORIGIN IN ITS FIRST YEAR OF SERVICE. SO OUR MESSAGING HAS BEEN WORKING [02:35:01] AND WILL CONTINUE TO MARKET AND, UH, AS THE SERVICE MATURES, THE SERVICE IN TERMS OF TRANSIT SERVICE, WE'RE KIND OF IN OUR ADOLESCENCE STILL SINCE THIS IS OUR SECOND YEAR, BUT WE ARE SEEING MORE OUTREACH AND MORE USAGE. UM, AND WE FEEL LIKE WE'VE DONE A LOT. AND IT IS, WE'RE SEEING IT IN THIS BEING ONE OF OUR NUMBER ONE DESTINATIONS ALONG WITH OUR OTHER PARK AND RIDE LOTS. SO ALSO WE ARE UTILIZING OUR TCAS WHEN THE LOTS REACH CAPACITY. THEY, UM, ALSO HELP REDIRECT VISITORS BY HANDING OUT CONNECT INFORMATION AND COUPONS INSTEAD OF LETTING THEM RECIRCLE. BUT THEY DO SEND THEM BACK INTO, INTO SEDONA TO PARK. I MEAN, OUR GOAL IS TO ACTUALLY GET PEOPLE BEFORE THEY GET IN THEIR CARS TO GO TO THIS LOT. BUT WE DO HAVE TO UNDERSTAND TRAVEL BEHAVIOR AND WE ARE TURNING AWAY VEHICLES DAILY, UH, PARTICULARLY DURING THE PEAK SEASON AT THIS AREA. CAN I ASK A QUESTION ABOUT THAT? DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY YOU'RE TURNING AWAY DURING PEAK ISH? OR HOW OFF, LIKE HOW MANY HOURS OF OPEN YOU'RE FULL DURING PEAK BECAUSE YOU GAVE US AVERAGES, BUT WHEN YOU AVERAGE AUGUST WITH OCTOBER, IT'S JUST DIFFERENT GAME WHEN ACTUALLY DAILY THE LOT FOLDS DURING FILLS DURING OPERATION, IT JUST ISN'T AS LONG. BUT DURING PEAK WE ARE, WE ARE TURNING AWAY PROBABLY DOZENS TO A HUNDRED VEHICLES A DAY DURING THAT, THAT MORNING. THAT MORNING. JUST IN THE MORNING. NOT ALL, NOT ALL DAY, ALL DAY IS HUNDREDS. YEAH. YEAH. YEAH. OKAY. YOU'RE SEEING IT IN THAT ONE AREA WHICH THE LOT JUST JAMS UP AND THEN THEY'RE TURNING A CONSISTENT NUMBER OF VEHICLES AWAY. GOT IT. SO FOR EXAMPLE, AS AN ALTERNATIVE, HAVE YOU CONSIDERED BIGGER BUSES? I MEAN, BIGGER SHUTTLES, MORE CAPACITY IN THE SHUTTLES, BUT IT'S ABOUT PARKING, RIGHT? IT'S NOT ABOUT CAPACITY OF THE SHUTTLES. THEY CAN'T PARK, IT'S NOT CAPACITY THROUGH, THROUGH OUR SHUTTLES. I MEAN, WE HAVE 25 SEATS OR 2025 PEOPLE CAN RIDE RIGHT FOR EACH TIME. AND IT GOES 15 EVERY 15 MINUTES YOU CAN GET ON A VEHICLE. AND A LOT OF THE TIMES THOSE VEHICLES ARE EMPTY IN THE MORNING. MM-HMM . BY RUNNING ANOTHER, UH, PUTTING MY BUS NERD HAT ON, RUNNING ANOTHER BUS DOESN'T HELP IF WE CAN'T GET PEOPLE TO THE LOT AND TO BOARD THE BUS BECAUSE THEY'RE PARKED UP IN THAT, IN THAT LOT. ANECDOTALLY, WE SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN WAITING LINES. SO IF YOU INCREASE THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES IT WOULD STAND. THE REASON THAT THERE WOULD BE MORE PEOPLE IN WAITING LINES, BECAUSE THE CAPACITY IS LIMITED TO 25 PER BUS. SO WITH A 55% INCREASE, UH, OF THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES, WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO AUGMENT THE VISITOR EXPERIENCE IF THEY CAN'T, CAN'T BOARD? UH, WE, DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH FREQUENCY OR DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH THE CAPACITY OF THE BUS OR BOTH? WELL, A LOT OF IT IS, IS WE ARE OBLIGATED AND WE HAVE A PERMIT WITH THE FOREST SERVICE THAT WE CAN ONLY PROVIDE SERVICE. WE CAN ONLY DROP OFF A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PEOPLE AT THE CATHEDRAL AND THE LITTLE ROCK TRAILHEAD. RIGHT. AND YOU SAID WHAT? WE'RE AT ABOUT A QUARTER OF THAT RIGHT NOW. WE ARE IT PEAK? IT DOES, YEAH. IT GETS CLOSE AND WE BUMP UP TO IT. MM-HMM . SO THE FREQUENCY DOES IT, THE FREQUENCY REALLY DOESN'T MATTER IN TERMS OF IF YOU STILL HAVE EMPTY SEATS. NOW THE ONE THING, AS IN ANY PARK AND RIDE LOT THAT IS SHUTTLING TO A SPECIFIC DESTINATION OR SERVICE OR EVEN AN EVENT LIKE A CONCERT, UM, PEOPLE ARE, ARE, ARE ACTUALLY CONDITIONED AND THEY KNOW THAT THEY HAVE A WEIGHT. SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT, WE CAN, WE CAN RUN, WE CAN IN AN HOUR, WE CAN GET A HUNDRED PEOPLE BACK AND FORTH. SO WE WOULD EXPECT THAT THE PEOPLE WILL WAIT, BUT WE ARE PROVIDING THEM ADDITIONAL AMENITIES. THEY'RE NOT UNDER A POP-UP TENT WITH, WITH, UH, PORTAGE ONS. SO WE DO HAVE FACILITIES, SEATING AREA, AND SHADE. MM-HMM . FOR THESE TRAILHEAD MM-HMM . SHUTTLES. MM-HMM . SO WE WOULD PREFER PEOPLE TO WAIT 15 TO 30 MINUTES. MM-HMM . WHICH MOST EXPECT AT THESE HIGH USE RECREATION AREAS WITH PARK AND RIDES, AND THEY HAVE A BETTER EXPERIENCE THAN CIRCLING, CIRCULATING AROUND THE AREA 1 79. AMBER, DO YOU HAVE A GOOD SENSE OF, UM, SINCE CATHEDRAL IS SO POPULAR AND PEOPLE STAY OUT THERE TWO TO THREE HOURS, WHAT IS YOUR ACTUAL TURNOVER? RIGHT, IN THE PARKING LOT? YOU KNOW, [02:40:01] WE'VE HEARD EVERYTHING FROM, LIKE, THERE'S SOME FOLKS THAT WILL JUST GO, GO RIDE THE SHUTTLE, GO IN AND IT TAKES ABOUT 45 MINUTES MM-HMM . UP AND BACK. MM-HMM . SO THAT'S AN IDEAL SITUATION. THERE'S SOME THAT STAY LONGER. RIGHT. AND THEY'LL, THEY'LL HIKE OTHER TRAILS. RIGHT. I DON'T REALLY HAVE WAIT, SO THEY DON'T GET OFF. THEY JUST JOY RIDE THE SHUTTLE? WELL, NO. THEY'LL, THEY'LL GO AND HIKE OTHER TRAILS. OH. I, I WAS JUST GONNA KIND OF ADD A STORY THAT I'VE HEARD FROM THE FOREST SERVICE DIRECTLY THAT I DON'T KNOW IF KURT REMEMBERS THE PERCENTAGE. HE AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN THE PAST, BUT A LARGE PORTION OF VISITORS THAT GO TO LIKE CATHEDRAL ROCK TRAILHEAD FOR INSTANCE MM-HMM . THE MAJORITY OF THEM GO INTO THE FIRST SO MANY HUNDRED FEET. OH. OH. AND, AND THE IDEA IS THEY WANT THAT SELFIE MM-HMM . THAT'S GOT CATH WALK IN THE BACKGROUND. RIGHT. RIGHT. THEY'RE NOT ABOUT WALKING ACROSS UNEVEN TERRAIN AND EVEN GETTING UP IN ELEVATION. MM-HMM . THEY WANT THAT SELFIE AND THEN THEY'RE TURN AROUND AND MM-HMM . HEADING OUT. BUT I THINK YOU, BUT I THINK YOU NOTED THAT THEY'RE STAYING TWO AND THREE HOURS IN YOUR PROPOSAL TO US. I I THINK THERE'S AN SOME DO, SOME DO. YEAH. AND THEN SOME ARE ONLY THERE FOR ABOUT AN HOUR. YEAH. MM-HMM . SO YOU TRY TO BALANCE THAT WITH THE CAPACITY AND THE DEMAND AND, UH, IT'S REALLY HARD TO DICTATE. THIS IS ONE THOUGH, THAT, UH, WE FEEL THAT BY ALLOWING BETTER AMENITIES AT THE WEIGHT, IT WOULD DECREASE THE CIRCULATION ON THE, IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND IN THE ROADWAYS. WHEN WOULD THE ON THE TECH REAL TIME TECHNOLOGY BE IMPLEMENTED? WE WOULD IMPLEMENT THAT WITH CONSTRUCTION BECAUSE IT WOULD BE A COST SAVINGS EFFORT, AND THAT WOULD BE MM-HMM. YOU COULD LOOK AT AN APP AND THERE'D BE THE NUMBER OF SPACES AVAILABLE AT THAT PARTICULAR LOT. THE CITY, THIS IS A TOOL THAT FOLKS USE FOR, FOR, FOR PARKING DEMAND. YEAH. THE FOREST SERVICE WOULD LIKE TO ACTUALLY INITIATE IT IN THEIR TRAILHEAD PARKING. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE A REAL IMPROVEMENT. WE DID DISCUSS THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE DOING A TRIAL, UH, PILOT IN THE UPTOWN ON OUR METERED PARKING AS WE IMPLEMENT OUR PARKING MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES HERE WITHIN THE CITY. AND WE SEE THIS AS A NATURAL FOR OUR PARK RIDE LOTS TO IMPLEMENT THIS TECHNOLOGY. WHERE ARE YOUR, WHERE'S THE CITY'S DISCUSSIONS ON, UH, EXPANDING THE PARKING LOT AT, UH, LITTLE HORSE? I, I DIDN'T HEAR THE QUESTION. EXPANDING THE LITTLE HORSE. WHERE, WHERE ARE THE CITY, WHERE ARE YOU WITH CITY'S DISCUSSIONS ON EXPANDING THE, UH, PARKING LOT AT LITTLE HORSE? UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S, UH, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING WITH THE FOREST SERVICE ABOUT, EXCUSE ME. BUT WITH THINGS GOING ON ON THEIR END MM-HMM . UH, IT'S, IT'S WAY OFF IN THE FUTURE. IT'S, IT'S NOTHING THAT WE'LL BE ABLE TO DO NEAR TERM. MM-HMM . I, I MEAN, I SEE THAT AS A REALLY STRONG ALTERNATIVE BECAUSE THERE'D BE NO NEIGHBORHOOD IMPACT THERE. RIGHT. AND IT WOULD START DISPERSING YOUR, YOUR VEHICLES, UH, AT TWO OF THE DESTINATIONS THAT YOU HAVE ON THE SHUTTLE ROUTE. YEAH. THE, THE, THE OTHER THING I WOULD THROW OUT IS THAT UNFORTUNATELY WHEN WE GET DIFFERENT DISTRICT RANGERS YEAH. THEY HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS, PRIORITIES. ALEX SEEMS OPEN TO THE IDEA UHHUH, BUT THAT'S JUST A GLIMMER OF HOPE. RIGHT. HIS PREDECESSOR WAS ABSOLUTELY, NO, IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN. UHHUH, . SO WE, WE DON'T KNOW. THERE'S A LOT OF PROPERTY THERE AND THERE AREN'T ANY NEIGHBORS. I UNDERSTAND IT. AND THERE ARE A LOT OF, UH, PRIORITIES THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO LAYER INTO AN IMPROVEMENT LIKE THAT MM-HMM . SO IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE CITY WOULD LIKE TO DO, BUT LIKE I SAY, IT'S DEFINITELY NOT A NEAR TERM TYPE OPPORTUNITY. BUT YOU HAVEN'T DROPPED PURSUING IT IS WHAT I'M HEARING. NO, DEFINITELY NOT. OKAY. AND YOU SEE IT AS A VIABLE, UH, YOU SEE IT AS A DESIRABLE YES. . UM, AND I, I LIKE TO THINK 50 YEARS IN THE FUTURE, UM, WHEN I THINK WHEN I PUT THAT HAT ON, I'M LIKE, FOR SURE IT'S GONNA BE SOMETHING THAT WE PURSUE. YEAH. YEAH. I HAVE. AND HOW, HOW, HOW, UM, HOW SOON ARE YOU THINKING OF IT, UM, COMING UP WITH THOSE ADDITIONAL TWO STOPS THAT WE'LL PUT MORE LOAD ONTO THE, UM, BO STRING LOT YOU MENTIONED VISTA POINT, AND WE'D HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT THE UTILIZATION IS AND LOOK AT PERFORMANCE AND WE'D HAVE TO HAVE DISCUSSIONS WITH THE FOREST SERVICE AND WITH THE COUNTY, UH, FOR A PARTNERSHIP. YEAH. THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS YOU MENTIONED THOSE AS YEAH. UPCOMING POTENTIAL, UH, DESTINATIONS FOR THE SHUTTLE RIDE. YEAH. FUTURE, POTENTIALLY POTENTIAL. THE OTHER THING TO KEEP IN MIND WITH THAT IS THAT WOULD MOST LIKELY BE PAIRED UP WITH A NEW, UH, SERVICE THAT WOULD CONNECT TO VOC. [02:45:01] OH. SO THERE'S A LOT THAT WE GOTTA, WE HAVE TO PARTNER WITH THE COUNTY AND THE FOREST SERVICE AND, UH, THINGS TO BE ABLE TO, IT'S ON THE WISHLIST RIGHT NOW. RIGHT. OKAY. THANK YOU. I HAVE QUESTIONS REGARDING SAFETY. UM, SO I, YOU KNOW, WE, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, YOU LAUNCHED THIS WHOLE PRESENTATION ABOUT SAFETY. SO I AM WONDERING IF YOU COULD TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW MANY ACCIDENTS HAVE BEEN REPORTED IN THIS LOT REGARDING PEDESTRIAN CAR, BUS, CAR? UH, IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, THERE'S BEEN, UH, TWO CAR ACCIDENTS AND THEY'VE BOTH BEEN WHAT I WOULD TERM FENDER BENDERS. OKAY. WITH, UH, NO INJURIES. OKAY. AND NO PEDESTRIAN INJURIES. RIGHT, RIGHT. OH, THAT'S WONDERFUL. THAT'S GREAT NEWS. YEAH. UM, AND THEN THE OTHER, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A SAFETY ISSUE OR LOGISTIC ISSUE, IS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE VERDE VALLEY SHUTTLE UTILIZING PART OF THIS, UM, SPACE. SO ARE THEY JUST USING THE TURNOUT LANE OR ARE THEY GOING TO USE THE UM, THE SAME, THE THE BUS LANE? THEY'LL JUST USE THE BUS LANE, THE EXISTING ONE THAT THEY'RE NO, NO, THE TURNOUT, THE BUS TURNOUT, THEY'LL JUST BE ON THE HIGHWAY. THEY WON'T GO INTO OUR SLIP LANE. OKAY. YEAH. WELL, THERE, IS THAT WHAT IT'S CALLED? A SLIP LANE? YEAH. OKAY. WE DO, AND WE DO HAVE, UH, A DOT, UH, ENCROACHMENT PERMIT, UH, APPROVAL ON THIS ALREADY. OH, OKAY. SO WHEN THEY POP IN TO THE BUS LANE, NOT THE SLIP LANE, UM, AND IT'S EVERY 50 MINUTES AND YOU KNOW, YOUR TEAM JUST COORDINATES THAT, IS THAT CORRECT? SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE TWO BUSES AT THE SAME TIME TRYING TO EXIT THAT LANE? I MEAN, OR IS THAT OKAY? IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THERE'S TWO BUSES AT THE SAME TIME. RIGHT. I THINK A DOT APPROVED IT AND I, I ASSUME THEY'VE, THEY'VE CHECKED WITH, UH, WITH, UH, COTTONWOOD VERDE SHUTTLE. OKAY. BUT THEIR PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS, OUR DRIVER WOULD C COME, UH, PICK UP AND HE WOULD STOP IF THERE WAS A, A VER SHUTTLE THERE, THEY WOULD JUST WAIT. HE WOULDN'T RAM IT ON THE WAY OUT. ? I DON'T THINK SO. NO. AND THEY'RE ALREADY UTILIZING THE BUS PULLOUT, LIKE IT'S AN EXISTING OPERATION. RIGHT, RIGHT. BUT WE'RE UTILIZING, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE TURNING AROUND, WE'RE GOING OUT THE SITE A DIFFERENT WAY, BUT WE'RE ALREADY GOING THROUGH THAT CORRIDOR WITH OUR CURRENT SERVICE. AND THEN, UM, I WANNA TALK JUST A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE SLIP LANE. YOU HAD MENTIONED AT THE SITE VISIT THAT THERE WAS A GATE, UM, THAT'S GONNA BE IN THE SLIP LANE. IS THAT A REMOTE CONTROL GATE OR IS THAT A GATE THAT JUST STAYS UP ALL DAY? HOW DOES THAT GATE WORK? WELL, THE ONE FOR THE BUSES YEAH. WILL BE JUST RUN REMOTE CONTROL BY THE BUSES. GREAT. SO THEN YOU WON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, MRS. SMITH WHO GETS CONFUSED AND GOES DOWN THE SLIP LANE BY ACCIDENT. RIGHT. OKAY. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. UM, OKAY. I JUST CURIOUS, I, I WAS JUST CURIOUS ON THAT COORDINATION BETWEEN VERDE, THE VERDE SHUTTLE, AND OUR SHUTTLE, UM, AND THE TRAFFIC IS SO LIGHT, YOU KNOW, THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM. YEAH. AND I THINK THAT THE, THE SIDEWALKS ARE A GREAT ADDITION. I THINK THAT'S SUPER IMPORTANT. I LOVE SEEING THIS INTEGRATION OF, YOU KNOW, A SHARED USE PATH, PUTTING THAT SIDEWALK ON BOTH STRING. UM, I THINK THAT THOSE ARE, ARE GREAT ADDITIONS. UM, I, UM, I THINK AS WE TALKED THIS OUT AND WE, WE STARTED THIS PRESENTATION WITH THE WORD SAFETY AND WE'VE BEEN FOCUSING ON, ON OTHER ELEMENTS OF THE NON-SAFETY COMPONENTS, LIKE THE TREES AND STUFF LIKE THAT. UM, WHAT KIND OF LIKE PEDESTRIAN SIGNING SIGNAGE ARE YOU GONNA HAVE TO LIKE, JUST REALLY PROMOTE FOR PEOPLE TO USE THE SIDEWALK? UM, AS, UH, THE GENTLEMAN FROM OUR CONSULTANT FIRM REALIZED I LIKE WALKING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET. SO, UM, AND HE HAD TO REMIND ME GENTLY, PLEASE, , JOE, CAN YOU MOVE UP, UH, OUT OF THE, OUT THE STREET. UM, SO THERE'S, THERE'S STUBBORN PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF. UH, HOW DO WE DO THE SIGNAGE TO ENCOURAGE THAT? 'CAUSE IT'S, IT WOULD, HONEST TO GOD, I WOULD PARK MY CAR AND WOULDN'T USE THE SIDEWALK. I MEAN, IF IT, AND, AND I DON'T MEAN IT 'CAUSE I'M GOOFY, I'M JUST SERIOUSLY, IF I WAS IN ONE SPOT, I COULD SEE MYSELF WALKING DOWN THE LANE. I MEAN, IS THERE GONNA BE SIGNAGE TO ENCOURAGE SIDEWALK USE? IS THERE GONNA BE AN ATTRACTION TO USE SIDEWALK USE? UM, YOU KNOW, THOSE KIND OF THINGS. WE TALKED ABOUT SOME ART, YOU KNOW, TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THOSE OTHER THINGS THAT COULD ALSO MAKE THIS SPACE WHERE YOU'D BE DRAWN TO THE SIDEWALK. KIND OF LIKE UPTOWN, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE HAVE THAT NICE DISPLAY OF, YOU KNOW, DATA ABOUT OUR COMMUNITY. UM, I, I'M JUST THINKING TOO, LIKE OUR SENSE OF PLACE FOR SEDONA IS NOT JUST A PARKING LOT WITH BATHROOMS AND A, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE PERGOLA TO HANG OUT IS SO YOU DON'T GET HOT. BUT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE REQUIRE FOLKS TO GIVE US MONEY FOR ART TO PLACE INTO OUR DEVELOPMENT STUFF OR HISTORY ABOUT THE AREA, THINGS LIKE THAT. SO I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I DON'T SEE IN THIS PRESENTATION TO COULD ALSO BE USEFUL IN, IN GETTING [02:50:01] FOLKS TO USE THE SIDEWALK BACK TO SAFETY ISSUE. RIGHT. AND, AND DRAW THEM TO KIND OF A JOURNEY IN THIS PARKING LOT AND MAKE IT, UM, NOT JUST A PARKING LOT. AND I KNOW THAT PARKING LOT IS, UH, CALI OVER THERE IS NOT A BIG FAN OF PARKING LOTS. SO, UM, HOW CAN WE MAKE THIS JUST A LITTLE BIT BETTER? AND THE SAME WITH THE, WITH THE RESTROOMS. I UNDERSTAND IT'S A CITY PROJECT, I GET IT. BUT YOU KNOW, THEY'RE PLAYING AND WE DON'T ALLOW THIS KIND OF SQUARE SHAPE IN OUR OTHER DEVELOPMENTS. WE USUALLY WANT SOME SNAZZY THING. SO I DON'T KNOW. I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER PLACE FOR ART. I THINK IT'S MISSING MASSING. I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, OR, OR PLANING WITH DIMENSION. I'M NOT SURE TOO MANY PLANE ON BEACH. UM, BUT JUST SAY IT, IT'S UGLY . YEAH. AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S FAIR TO THE RESIDENTS. I DON'T THINK THAT'S FAIR TO UR. AND I THINK THERE'S JUST OTHER WAYS TO MAKE BATHROOMS SEXY. UM, AND YOU ALL KNOW THAT YOU, THIS IS NOT NOTHING NEW. YOU KNOW, WE CAN HAVE REALLY COOL BATHROOMS IN, IN A PUBLIC ENEMY THAT, THAT DOESN'T COST A BUNCH OF MONEY. UM, I CAN THINK OF SEVERAL ACTUALLY IN MY HEAD, BUT, UH, WHAT ELSE CAN WE DO TO JUST DRAW THIS SPACE, KEEP THEM ON THE SIDEWALK BY SIGNAGE OR DISPLAYS OR, YOU KNOW, STORIES, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE. UM, WE TALK A LOT AND, AND I, AND I'M SURPRISED, KATHY, YOU HAVEN'T MENTIONED THIS YET, BUT WE TALK A LOT ABOUT THE HISTORY OF SEDONA AND THE HISTORY OF THE AREA. AND THESE TOURISTS, MAYBE THAT'S ALL THEY'RE GONNA DO IS HIKE. SO THEY'RE NOT GONNA LEARN ABOUT THE JORDAN TREE AND THE, AND THE, AND THE DITCHES AND, AND HOW WE'RE CREATED. AND IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO START TO DO THAT IN THESE LOTS? 'CAUSE YOU CAN, FOR THAT SECTION OF LAND, YOU KNOW, NO ONE WOULD KNOW THERE'S A CEMETERY BACK THERE. NO ONE WOULD KNOW ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS. AND WHAT CAN WE DO IN THAT SIGNAGE WOULD DRAW THEM TO THE SIDEWALK? WELL, RIGHT NOW, THE WAY WE HAVE IT, THE ONLY MOTIVATION FOR THEM TO USE THE SIDEWALK IS TO STAY OUT OF THE TRAFFIC. RIGHT. RIGHT, RIGHT. IT'S NOT EVERYBODY'S GONNA DO THAT. ELDERLY WILL PEOPLE THAT JUST WANT A LITTLE SAFER WALK. RIGHT. BUT I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA OF POSSIBLY HAVING SOME SORT OF AN INTERPRETIVE SIGNING ALONG THE SIDEWALK TO, UH, MAKE IT MORE OF A, UH, DESTINATION. A SMALL DESTINATION FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE USING THE PARKING LOT. BUT EVEN LIKE WITH OUR TREES, THE ALLIGATOR JUNI PINE ALLIGATOR, JUNI PINE IS SUPER COOL. AND WHAT, HOW IT DOES WHAT IT DOES. WE HAD, UM, I HAD FOLKS FROM FI, THE STATE FIREWISE DO A PRESENTATION THAT I WAS AT AND THEY TALKED ABOUT HOW, UM, THE PINE TREES ARE SUPER COOL. 'CAUSE WHEN THEY GET HOT, THEY BUST OUT THEIR BARK. SO THEY DON'T REALLY, THEY DON'T GO UP LIKE A TORCH. IF THEY'RE HEALTHY, THEY BUST OUT THEIR BARK. I MEAN, I THINK SUPER LITTLE COOL THINGS, OR EVEN STUFF ABOUT FIREWISE, I THINK THAT THERE'S SOME REALLY GOOD OPPORTUNITIES HERE TO MAKE THIS AN EDUCATIONAL AND ART LOOKING TO GET PEOPLE ON THE SIDEWALK. BACK TO THE MAIN THEME, SAFETY. RIGHT. I COULD SPEAK TO THAT INTERPRETIVE PANEL, UM, IDEA THAT WAS BROUGHT UP. SO THE, THE WALKWAY THAT YOU SEE BETWEEN THE Y AND FOREST ROAD, THAT'S THE VIEW WALK. MM-HMM . AND ABOUT HALF OF THE COMMITTEE THAT PUT THAT TOGETHER IS HERE TONIGHT. . UM, INCLUDING MYSELF AND SEVERAL STAFF AND OTHERS IN THE AUDIENCE. THAT'S A PART OF AN OVERALL THEME FOR THE WHOLE, UH, COMMUNITY THAT WE'RE BRANDING AS SEDONA WALK. MM-HMM . SO WE ARE ALREADY PLANNING OTHER INTERPRETIVE PANEL AREAS THAT ARE PART OF WALKWAYS. MM-HMM . IT DOES MAKE SENSE TO ADD THAT HERE. SO I'M SUPPORTIVE, UH, OF ADDING THAT TO THE LIST OF AREAS THAT WE LOOK AT. GOOD FOR THAT. I THINK, I THINK THAT'S GREAT. AND I THINK IT WOULD BE SUPER COOL 'CAUSE THEN THEY'LL USE THE SIDEWALK, RIGHT? 'CAUSE THEY'RE GONNA SAY, OH, WHERE'S THIS PANEL? RIGHT? AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'RE PULLING THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE PARKED ACROSS THE WAY, OH, LOOK IT, THERE'S A SIGN OVER HERE. RIGHT. UM, AND, AND THEY'LL DIG INTO THAT. UM, AND I THINK, I THINK THAT'S SUPER IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE FOLKS IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD JUST DON'T WANT A PARKING LOT WITH A BUNCH OF JOHNS AND A BUNCH OF PEOPLE RIGHT. IN A BUS. SO LET'S MAKE IT SOMETHING INTERESTING TOO. AND I KNOW SIGNAGES CAN BE EXPENSIVE, BUT I KNOW WE CAN, YOU GUYS ARE USED TO KNOW HOW TO DO THE GAME. YOU KNOW, HOW TO MAKE A GOOD SIGN WITHOUT BREAKING THE BANK. UM, I CAN OFFER RIGHT THERE ON OUR, UM, SIM ONE B, OUR SHARED USE PATH IN UPTOWN, RIGHT? WE'RE HOPING WE PUT, UM, WILDLIFE FOOTPRINTS IN THERE AND WE BOUGHT THOSE IMPRESSIONS. SO IF YOU'D LIKE TO INCLUDE THAT, WE'D BE GLAD TO PUT THAT ON THE SIDEWALK WHERE WE'RE PUTTING CONCRETE TO AGAIN, MAKE THAT ACTIVATE THE SPACE, GET PEOPLE TO BE THERE TO BE ACTIVATE AND PROVIDE THAT CURIOSITY AND THAT UNIQUENESS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR. SO I'LL MAKE A NOTE OF THAT. AND I THINK TOO, IF WE'RE PUTTING THESE FOLKS, UM, ON OUR TRAIL HEADS, YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE LISTEN TO THE SIGNS AND READ THEM, BUT DO THEY KNOW THAT THERE'S BOBCATS? DO THEY KNOW THERE'S MOUNTAIN LIONS, YOU KNOW, RATTLESNAKES, GOPHER SNAKES, THOSE KIND OF THINGS. UM, YOU KNOW, IT ALSO CAN BE A FAUNA, YOU KNOW, THING AS WELL. BUT [02:55:02] I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME HISTORY IN THERE. I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME EDUCATION. DON'T TRAMP ON ME, DON'T MAKE SOCIAL TRAILS. UH, I THINK THERE COULD BE A LOT OF REALLY FUN STUFF. AND THEN ALSO STUFF THAT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY KIDS ARE COMING IN THROUGH HERE. DO WE HAVE A LOT OF CHILDREN OR ARE THEY MOSTLY JUST WHAT ADULTS USING YOUR SERVICES? THEY'RE FAMILIES. ARE THEIR FAMILIES. YEAH. THEY, THEY'RE FAMILIES. YEAH. SO DON'T FORGET OUR KIDS. MM-HMM . 'CAUSE THEY, 'CAUSE THOSE KIDS NEED SOMETHING THAT THEY CAN RELATE TO, BECAUSE SOME OF THEM, SO MANY OF THEM RUN OFF. I MEAN, I GREW UP IN, I GREW MY, I GREW UP MY KIDS IN ARIZONA. SO WHAT WAS THE FIRST THING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT AT TRAILHEAD? RATTLESNAKES, RIGHT? WHAT DOES RATTLESNAKE LOOK LIKE? WHAT DO THEY SOUND LIKE? SO MAYBE FAKE RATTLES THAT ARE REALLY LOW, LOW KEY SO THAT THESE RESIDENTS THAT LIVE HERE DON'T HEAR IT. SORRY. CAN YOU TELL, THERE'S IN PARKS AND RECS FOR A LONG TIME. , SHE'S LAUGHING AT ME GOING, SHUT UP JOEY. WANNA GO HOME? BUT, UH, BUT JUST SOME THINGS LIKE THAT. SO THINK ABOUT OUR, SOME OF OUR KIDS AND THINK ABOUT ALL THAT. I THINK IT'D BE SUPER IMPORTANT, AND I THINK YOU ALL KNOW WHAT TO DO. DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING MORE ON YOUR PRESENTATION? UH, WE JUST HAD ONE MORE SLIDE. YES. WE JUST HAD ONE MORE SLIDE. LET'S GET BACK TO THAT. SORRY, KATHY AND KURT WAS GOING TO SUM IT UP. YEAH. AND I THINK THIS SLIDE HAS BEEN UP THERE. HOPEFULLY YOU READ IT. I'M NOT GONNA READ IT VERBATIM, BUT THOSE ARE THOSE, UM, KEY POINTS THAT WE WANTED TO LEAVE YOU WITH TONIGHT. AND THAT'S REALLY THAT WE WANTED TO, UM, MAKE THIS RIGHT SIZE THE PARKING LOT. WE INHERITED A PARKING LOT THAT WASN'T EFFICIENT, THAT WE SAW HAZARDS IN THERE, THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE IRRIGATION SYSTEM WORKING. SO HOPE YOU LOOK AT THIS AS AN IMPROVEMENT TO THE COMMUNITY. IT IS, UH, UH, IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE. WE'RE INCLUDING THE TRANSIT TO MAKE THIS, UH, AN, UH, GOOD EXPERIENCE TO GET PEOPLE WHERE THEY WANT WITHOUT ADDING TO THE CONGESTION OR TRAFFIC. UM, AND AGAIN, THAT LAST POINT, THE EXPANSION IS BALANCED, DATA-DRIVEN SOLUTIONS. WE'VE LISTENED TO THE COMMUNITY, WE'VE INCORPORATED YOUR IMPROVEMENTS. UM, THE TURNAROUND, THE SHARED USE PATH EXTENSIONS. THESE WERE REALLY GOOD ADDED VALUES TO THIS PROJECT. AND I HOPE YOU AGREE THAT I THINK YOU'RE GONNA BE VERY SATISFIED WHEN WE GET THIS, UH, DEVELOP THIS PROJECT. WE'D LIKE TO DO THIS THIS YEAR. IT'S BUDGETED THIS YEAR. WE'D LIKE TO DO IT STARTING THE SUMMER, UM, BECAUSE IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO THE CITY AND IT'S ESSENTIAL TO OUR TRANSITION INTO A MORE, UM, FULFILLING, UH, TRANSIT BUS, UM, OPPORTUNITY OF THE PARK AND RIDE. UM, PRESENTATIONS DONE. YES. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. CAN I ASK A QUESTION? YES. LET'S GO QUESTION. THIS IS A SAFETY QUESTION, . SO WHEN WE WERE OUT THERE TODAY, UM, YOU WERE SAYING HOW THE, UM, BUS LANE IS GONNA BE, NEED TO BE MOVED A LITTLE IN THE, UM, SHARED USE PATH OR THE BIKE PATH IS GONNA CROSS OVER IT AT SOME POINT. YOU WERE. SO IF YOU COULD JUST RECAP WHAT YOU ARE CONSIDERING THE SAFETY FEATURES OF THAT, BECAUSE IT SOUNDS OMINOUS TO ME. UM, IT'S GONNA BE MARKED IN WHAT WAY IS THERE, IS THERE ANY FLASHING LIGHTS? IS THERE, I DON'T KNOW. YOU KNOW, A TRAIN TRACK THING THAT GOES UP AND DOWN? NO. IF YOU LOOK, THERE'S A STOP BAR THAT'S GONNA TELL THE DRIVERS TO STOP. UM, THEY'VE DESIGNED THIS TO MAKE SURE THERE'S A GREAT LINE OF SIGHT TO A SEAT BECAUSE PEDESTRIANS AND BICYCLISTS, THEY ALL MOVE AT DIFFERENT VELOCITIES. THOSE, UM, CONDITIONS WERE INCORPORATED WITH THIS DESIGN. AND THERE'S GONNA BE, UM, THE TRUNCATED DOMES TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO NOTICE THAT THIS IS A CROSSING. SO THERE'S PHYSICAL, VISUAL, AND AUDIO NOTICES. UM, UNLESS YOU WANT TO ADD TO THAT, STEVE. YEAH. THERE WAS, UH, ONE OTHER FEATURE IS THAT THIS CROSSING HERE OF THE SHARED USE PATH, UH, IS AT THE SAME GRADE LEVEL ALL THE WAY THROUGH MM-HMM . SO THAT THE SHUTTLE LANE SLIP LANE RAMPS UP GENTLY TO IT LEVELS OUT OVER THE SHARED USE PATH, THEN GOES GENTLY BACK DOWN. MM-HMM . SO IT'S, THE SHUTTLE BUS IS GONNA BE GOING SLOW. THERE'S PLENTY OF VISIBILITY. THERE'S THE, UH, TRUNCATED DOMES AND THE BASICALLY A CROSS ROCK CROSSWALK STRIPING THERE. SO IT'S, IT'S A REAL PEDESTRIAN CROSSING. WHAT'S THE AUDITORY PART? THE NOISE? PARDON? THE TRUNK. IT, IT'S THE NOISE. OH, OKAY. WHEN YOU COME UP, YOU'RE, YOU AS A PEDESTRIAN OR THE VEHICLE, YOU'LL HEAR IT FOR THE PEDESTRIAN. FOR THE PEDESTRIAN, BUT THE AUDIO IS USUALLY AT A TRAFFIC SIGNAL WHERE A AT GRADE CROSSING THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANY TRAFFIC SIGNAL OR OTHER, UH, AUDITORY UH, REQUIREMENTS. WW THERE'S, THERE'S NO LIGHTS HERE. IT'S JUST STATIC WITH A STOP SIGN. KATHY, I THINK I WANNA OPEN THE PUBLIC. I, YEAH, I'D LIKE TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING PORTION NOW BEFORE WE LOSE ANYBODY AND THEY'VE BEEN WAITING FOR A NUMBER OF HOURS AND THEN WE'LL COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR MORE COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS. [03:00:01] OKAY. SO I HAVE TWO. UM, AND UH, TODD, THANK YOU AGAIN FOR WAITING SO LONG. THANK YOU. YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES. IF YOU'LL, I'LL TRY TO DO THIS AS FAST AS I CAN. AND I, I, UM, STATE YOUR NAME PLEASE. AND CITY OF RESIDENCE IS ALRE. I LIVE HERE IN SEDONA. I LIVE AT 3 3 5 BOWRING DRIVE. I ALSO HAVE THE HOME AT 85 ARROW DRIVE THAT I BASICALLY RENT OUT FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING. UM, I'M NOT AGAINST THE PARKING LOT AS A NEIGHBOR, I'M AGAINST THE EXPANSION OF THE SPACE. UM, AND I'M, FOR IN PARTICULAR, THE CITY KEEPING PRETTY MUCH ITS PROMISE THAT IT MADE BACK IN 2021 WHEN IT TOLD US ABOUT BASICALLY THE BROKERING OF THIS DEAL WITH THE CHURCH, WHICH REALLY NEEDED MONEY AND THE RESIDENTS AND BACKHOE BEYOND, WHICH WERE JUST PULLING THEIR HAIR OUT BECAUSE OF THE TRAFFIC. SO IT'S A PROMISE IN 2021 THAT WE WEREN'T GONNA EXPAND THE AMOUNT OF CARS AND WE WEREN'T GONNA DAMAGE ANY OF THAT, UH, LANDSCAPE. THERE ARE SOME GREAT MATURE TREES THAT ARE OUT THERE. NO, AND I, I'M, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT PIECE. A COUPLE OF THINGS I HAVE, I'LL GET FIVE PIECES. UM, FIRST OFF, I ENCOURAGE YOU TO DELAY THIS COMPLETELY UNTIL WE GET NEIGHBORHOOD INPUT. WE HAVE NO INPUT. THIS IS THE ONLY INPUT WE GET. AND IF YOU GO INTO THE DOCUMENT WHERE YOU LOOK TO HERE, I HAD TO GO AND SEARCH THROUGH, I DON'T KNOW, IT'S PAGE NINE, PAGE 49 OF LIKE A 59 PAGE DOCUMENT. BASICALLY NOTIFICATION WAS GIVEN OUT TO PEOPLE WITHIN 300 FEET OF THE PARKING LOT. NO, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT IT AT LEAST SAYS ACTUALLY, THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD RECEIVED THE LETTER BECAUSE WE ASKED, NO, THIS IS THE LETTER. BUT AS FAR AS BEING CONSULTED UPON, NO ONE'S BEEN CONSULTED UPON. AND SO, AND I ACTUALLY, I'M REPRESENTED ABOUT FIVE OTHER NEIGHBORS WHO JUST COULD NOT MAKE IT HERE. UM, SO FIRST OFF, WE NEED TO HAVE SOME NEIGHBORHOOD INPUT. UM, SECOND, I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP, WE DO NOT NEED TO INCREASE THE PARKING BY 55%. WE NEED TO KEEP IT AS TO WHAT THE CITY HAD SAID BACK IN 2021. WE'LL KEEP IT AT THE CURRENT DENSITY. SAME WITH THE LANDSCAPING. WE'RE NOT GONNA DAMAGE IT. UM, I THINK WE NEED TO DO AN IMPACT ANALYSIS ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENED ON THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, THIS NEIGHBORHOOD PRIOR TO 20 20, 21 WAS A NEIGHBORHOOD WITH A CHURCH. IT HAD A PARKING LOT AND, AND CARS WOULD BE IN THERE ON A SUNDAY. NOW WE HAVE WHAT IS A BIG PARKING LOT FOR SEDONA THAT'S GOING TO BECOME AN EVEN BIGGER ONE WITH BATHROOMS AND ALL OF THAT. THAT HAS IMPACTED OUR NEIGHBORHOOD GREATLY. WE USED TO HAVE MORE RESIDENTS. WE NOW HAVE MORE AIRBNBS. IF YOU'RE AN, IF YOU'RE A HOUSE AND YOU'RE UP AGAINST REALLY CLOSE TO WHERE THIS IS, YOU'RE SELLING, YOU'RE NOT A RESIDENT, YOU'RE NOT ENJOYING IT, YOU HEAR NOISE AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU GOT AIRBNBS. OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, BECAUSE WE HAVE NO HOA, HAS BEEN GREATLY IMPACTED BY THIS PARKING LOT. AND THE BIGGER IT GETS, THE MORE DAMAGING IT'S GOING TO BE. OKAY. SO NOT ONLY IS AN IMPACT ANALYSIS, IT NEEDS TO BE ON TRAFFIC, AIR QUALITY. THERE'S AIR QUALITY ISSUES. WE HAVE AROUND THE ROUNDABOUT COMING IN THERE ALSO ON NOISE. WE GET A LOT OF NOISE FROM THOSE PEOPLE WHEN THEY TALK. WE ALSO GET CAR ALARMS GOING OFF. WE GET PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO WAIT AND THEY WALK AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND I AM CONVINCED THAT YOUR PLAN TO MAKE IT SO EVERYBODY'S GONNA TURN BACK OVER TO EIGHT OVER ONTO 1 79. IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN. PEOPLE JOY RIDE, THEY LOVE TO GO INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND LOOK AROUND AND SEE WHAT'S GOING ON AROUND THERE. IT'S TRUE. IT'S NOT GONNA SOLVE THAT PROBLEM. YOU'RE GONNA ADD IN 55% MORE CARS IN THERE. IT'S GOING TO, IT'S GONNA DAMAGE OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. WE ARE A, WE ARE A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IS, IS AT RISK. WE REALLY ARE. SO DON'T, IT NEEDS TO BE SHARED. SOMEONE ELSE HAD SAID, I GUESS I'M DONE. NO, YOU CONTINUE. THANK YOU. UM, SO WE ARE AN AT-RISK NEIGHBORHOOD. YOU NEED TO DO SOME ANALYSIS BEFORE YOU'RE GONNA CRAM MORE PARKING AND PEOPLE AND BATHROOMS. UM, THE OTHER THING WE HAVE OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS DO NEED TO SHARE. OKAY. OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS NEED TO SHARE BACK, GO BEYOND. I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF MONEY AND THERE'S A LOT OF INFLUENCE IN THIS CITY WITH THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT THEY MAYBE NEED TO SHARE. OKAY. SAME WITH THE OTHER. WHERE THE OTHER TRAIL DROP OFF IS WE NEED TO LOOK AT A LONG-TERM PLAN WHERE NEIGHBORHOODS ARE NOT BEING IMPACTED. UM, I'VE MENTIONED THE TURNING ON BO STRINGING. I'VE MENTIONED THAT OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS AT RISK. UM, I'VE MENTIONED THAT, UH, YEAH, THIS WAS A PROMISE THAT THE CITY BASICALLY HAD MADE. UM, AGAIN, I'M REPRESENTING FIVE NEIGHBORS WHO JUST COULDN'T BE HERE. SOME ARE WORKING, SOME ARE TRAVELING. ONE'S ACTUALLY TAKING CARE OF HER HUSBAND WHO HAS DEMENTIA. UM, BUT YEAH, WE NEED TO SHARE THE PROBLEM. IT SHOULD NOT. THIS IS SOMETHING, AND I THINK THE CITY FORGETS 'CAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF TURNOVER. THIS IS THREE, FOUR YEARS AGO IT WAS MADE, BUT WE AS A NEIGHBORHOOD, WERE TOLD, HEY, WE'RE GONNA GO DO THIS. THE CHURCH NEEDS MONEY BACK WILL BEYOND'S DONE. YOU GUYS WILL ACCEPT THE BURDEN, BUT WE DON'T NEED TO BE EXPANDED UPON AND MAKE OUR NEIGHBORHOOD MORE AT RISK. SO PLEASE, I JUST ENCOURAGE YOU, DO NOT APPROVE THIS. AND I THINK YOU NEED TO LOOK AT THESE OTHER IDEAS OF WHERE YOU COULD ACTUALLY EXPAND PARKING AND HAVE OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS SHARE THE BURDEN. UM, AND I AM CONVINCED THAT THE, THE LANDSCAPING THERE, IT'S NOT GONNA BE WHAT IT IS. AND PE WE'LL JUST HAVE MORE PEOPLE COMING INTO MY NEIGHBORHOOD. THAT'S IT. SO THANK YOU. I'M GONNA LEAVE. I, AS ONE OF MY NEIGHBORS HAD, AND IF KATHY, I GUESS WE'VE [03:05:01] NEVER REALLY MET, BUT YOU MAY KNOW SCOTT SCHRADER, WHO LIVES IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD. YEAH. HE WAS GONNA COME. YEAH. UH, I, I SAID, COME ON SCOTT, COME. HE'S LIKE, I'M NOT GONNA GO. IT'S GONNA GO LONG. HE GOES, THE CITY'S GONNA DO WHAT THEY WANNA DO. THE CITY WANTS TO EXPAND THERE AND THEY'RE GONNA GO DO IT. AND SCOTT HAS SAID, I'VE ALREADY CONTACTED SOME PEOPLE AND IT'S ALREADY MOVING FORWARD. AND THAT'S HOW A LOT OF US JUST FEEL. WE HAVE NO VOICE. I WAITED HERE. I'VE BEEN HERE NOW THREE AND A HALF HOURS. 'CAUSE I DID TOLD MY NEIGHBORS I'D REPRESENT US, BUT THIS IS WRONG. THIS IS NOT YOUR SOLUTION. WE ALSO NEED TO LOOK AT TECHNOLOGY. I WAS JUST AT ZION, THEY USE TECHNOLOGY. WE, A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO GO TO CATHEDRAL. MAYBE WE NEED TO HAVE A LOTTERY SYSTEM FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO GO TO CATHEDRAL. WE NEED TO START LOOKING AT HOW WE CONTROL SOME OF THOSE ASPECTS. BUT WE CAN'T JUST JAM SOMETHING INTO A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT FOUR YEARS AGO WAS A NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT NOW IT'S THE SOLUTION TO SHOVE ALL THE CARS AND ALL THE PARKING AND MAKE IT BE THE PLACE FOR THE CITY FOR PUBLIC WORKS TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. IT'S NOT FAIR TO US AS A NEIGHBORHOOD. THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS. THANK YOU. ALTHEA JOHNSON IS NEXT. JUST GIMME A SEC. THAT'S A LOT. I'M LIKE, FOLLOW THAT. OH, ATHE, BEFORE YOU START CARE, UM, CARRIE ALTHEA WROTE US A LETTER THAT, UM, ONLY HALF OF US RECEIVED. AND I DID YOU SEND THAT OUT LAST NIGHT? OR THIS MORNING? ATHEA, I SENT IT LAST NIGHT. OKAY. AND I USED THE ADDRESSES THAT WERE LISTED ON THE WEBSITE. RIGHT, RIGHT. LISTED. SO I GUESS IT'S AN OUTLET PROBLEM. THIS HALF DIDN'T GET ANY EMAILS. RIGHT. SO, UM, IF YOU WANNA REFERENCE THAT LETTER, I, I HAD ASKED IF WE COULD HAVE COPIES, BUT WE WEREN'T ABLE TO DO THAT. I HAVE SOMETHING ELSE PREPARED, BUT THE, YEAH, I ALSO SUBMITTED THAT TO LIKE THE, THE PLAN, THE PAGE FOR THIS PROJECT. YES. UM, SO HOPEFULLY, RIGHT. I'M SORRY, BUT CAME IN, IN THAT WE DIDN'T ALL RECEIVE IT. OKAY. SO YOU MIGHT WANNA PULL SOME OF THOSE HIGHLIGHTS. MAYBE SOME OF, I THINK MOST OF WHAT I SAID WAS REFERENCED. I DON'T KNOW IF JOE, IF YOU GOT MY MESSAGE OR NOT, BUT YOU MENTIONED SEVERAL OF THE THINGS THAT WERE IN IT. YEAH, NO, I, NO, I DID NOT RECEIVE YOUR EMAIL. I FEEL RELATIVELY WELL REPRESENTED BASED ON WHAT I HAD SAID THERE, SO, OKAY. I'LL STICK WITH WHAT THIS UP. OKAY. OKAY. UM, I'M ALTHEA JOHNSON, SEDONA, RESIDENT AT 1 71 BOWRING DRIVE. I'D LIKE TO THANK STAFF FOR SITTING THE SITE VISIT TODAY AND FOR THE COMMISSIONERS FOR ATTENDING. ALSO, THANK YOU TO THE CITY FOR THE WORK THAT'S BEEN PUT IN SINCE LAST OCTOBER'S MEETING TO ADDRESS THE CONCERNS AND ALL OF YOU BEING HERE THIS TIME AROUND AND FOR LISTENING AND ACTIVELY WORKING ON THE ISSUES THAT I SPECIFICALLY HAVE MENTIONED, A LOT HAS HAPPENED. UM, HOWEVER, I WOULD LIKE TO REITERATE MY CONCERN ABOUT THE EXPANSION OF THE LOT RESULTING IN SIGNIFICANT ADDITIONAL ASPHALT AND THE LOSS OF THE WELL-ESTABLISHED VEGETATION AT THE SOUTH END OF THE LOT. UM, IT WAS IMMEDIATELY CLEAR DURING THE SITE VISIT WHEN WE STEPPED OFF THE SHARED USE PATH ALONG 1 79 AND INTO THE LOT THAT THE TREES PROVIDE A SIGNIFICANT SOUND BARRIER FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I UNDERSTAND THE INTENTION IS TO SALVAGE AND REPLACE VEGETATION, HOWEVER, THE SIZE OF THE LOT EXPANSION ITSELF MEANS THERE WILL ONLY BE SO MUCH SPACE TO ACTUALLY FIT THE VEGETATION IN. I'M WORRIED IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE TO ADD TO SO MANY SPOT SO MANY SPOTS, PUSHING THE LOT TO THE LITERAL EDGE OF THE PROPERTY LINE AND WITHIN JUST FEET OF THE SIDEWALK AND ROUNDABOUT. UM, UNDERSTANDING THAT THE STATED ULTIMATE GOAL FOR THE OVERALL PROJECT IS SAFETY, WHICH IS AWESOME. COULDN'T THE SOUTH END OF THE LOT EXPAND TO A LESSER DEGREE PROVIDING, SAY, AN ADDITIONAL 23 SPACES, ELIMINATING THE 11 OR 12TH PLANT AT THE FAR SOUTHEAST CORNER? YEAH. STILL PROVIDING A SAFER TURNAROUND POINT WITHOUT PRESSING THE PARKING LOT SO SIGNIFICANTLY INTO THAT NATIVE LAND. IF WE KNOW THAT 35 SPACES IS STILL NOT GOING TO MEET THE HIGHEST DEMAND ANYWAY, UM, IS THERE A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 35 AND 23 OR ANOTHER NUMBER? IS THERE ANY WAY TO MAXIMIZE MORE SPACES OF THE REMOVAL OF THE ROUNDABOUT AND RESTRUCTURING THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE LOT, UM, WHERE THOSE NON-WORKING LIGHTS ARE NOW? DO WE NEED THOSE LITTLE, UM, SPACES? I DO WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR THE CONVERSATION ABOUT INTEGRATING WAYS TO ADD VALUE TO THE EXPERIENCE AND FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE LITTLE FOOTPRINTS AND THE PATHS, THE INTERPRETIVE SIGNS ALL SOUND WONDERFUL TO ME. UM, LET ME ADD QUICKLY THAT I WOULD MUCH PREFER TRYING VEGETATION BEFORE PUTTING IN A FENCE. UM, I ALSO DID ALSO WANT TO ASK ABOUT RIDERSHIP NUMBERS. WASN'T THE LOT OPEN FULL TIME AT THIS TIME LAST YEAR? ALTHOUGH I WAS OUT OF TOWN LAST WEEK, THE FIRST 10 DAYS OF OCTOBER DEFINITELY SEEMED LESS BUSY IN THE LOT USAGE, AT LEAST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, UM, COMPARED TO BUSIER PREVIOUS BUSY MONTHS. ALSO, HAS THERE BEEN A RIDER SENTIMENT SURVEY CONDUCTED? I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT THAT. LASTLY, I DID WANT TO COMMENT ON THE INTENT VERSUS REALITY OF TCA TRAINING AND IMPLEMENTATION AS REASON AS JUST A COUPLE WEEKS AGO. WE HAVE SEEN THEM SEND CARS UP THOSE STRINGS TO TURN AROUND AT THE CHURCH OR ELSEWHERE IN THE HEAT OF THE MOMENT. JUST GETTING THEM OUT OF THE CONGESTION MAKES SENSE. IT'S OBVIOUSLY THE FIRST PRIORITY. UM, BUT THIS IS AN ONGOING CHALLENGE, ALTHOUGH I DO APPRECIATE THE OPEN DIALOGUE, UM, AND HOPE THAT A TURNAROUND WOULD, UH, MITIGATE THAT, ALTHOUGH THAT DOES MEAN MORE TREES. AND JUST TO MENTION THAT WHILE RESIDENT PARTICIPATION SINCE THE FIRST PUBLIC OUTREACH HAS OBVIOUSLY REDUCED SIGNIFICANTLY, THAT IS IN PART BECAUSE SEVERAL HOMES HAVE SOLD TO INVESTORS AND BECOME SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN THE PAST THREE YEARS, INCLUDING THE HOUSES THAT ARE DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO THE SHUTTLE [03:10:01] LOT PROPERTY. BUT ALSO BECAUSE THE CITY HAS BEEN A, IN MY OPINION, RELATIVELY GOOD NEIGHBOR THAT'S BEEN RESPONSIVE TO CONCERNS AND WHEN THEY'VE BEEN SHARED, AT LEAST MY CONCERNS. UH, WE JUST HOPE THAT WHATEVER HAPPENS WITH THIS PROJECT, THAT WE ARE A COMMUNITY THAT'S VALUED AND RESPECTED BY THE CITY AND THAT WE ARE SORRY, BUT DO I ALWAYS DO THIS? UM, AND THAT WE ARE, UM, AS NEIGHBORS CONTINUE THIS OPEN DIALOGUE ABOUT THE PLANS AND THE OPERATIONS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. DO YOU HAVE ONE MORE CARD THAT STEVE? I DO HAVE ONE MORE. I WAS JUST GONNA WAIT A FEW MINUTES. OKAY. THE NEXT, UH, PERSON TO SPEAK AND THE LAST IS STEVE EGNER. HI, MY NAME IS STEVE EGNER. UM, HAVE A COUPLE HATS HERE. OH, YOU'RE DONE. I GUESS. YEAH. LIKE STEVE, MY 20 MINUTES. YEAH, TRY AGAIN. UM, UM, I'M A BUSINESS OWNER IN TOWN. I'M CHAIRMAN OF THE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE. TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS HAS WORKED ON THIS. THIS IS AN IDEA WE CAME UP WITH. THIS IS PEOPLE FROM THE COMMUNITY WHO WORK TOGETHER, WHO WORK WITH THE CITY ON IDEAS. SO IT, IT HAS BEEN WORKED THROUGH THE CHANNEL TO GET UP TO THIS POINT. I WANNA SAY AT THIS POINT, I THINK IT'S A GREAT PLAN AND I LIKE IT BECAUSE I'M A PRODUCT GUY AND ANY OF YOU HAVE KNOWN ME. I WANT TO IMPROVE OUR PRODUCT. I DON'T THINK WE TALK ABOUT SEDONA AS A PRODUCT. I DO. THAT'S MY BACKGROUND. HOW DO WE IMPROVE OUR PRODUCT FOR THE VISITORS AND FOR THE LOCALS? I THINK THIS DOES THAT. I THINK HAVING A BATHROOM SHADE WATER, THOSE ARE THE MINIMUM THINGS YOU NEED. IF WE'RE GONNA, IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE SOMEBODY COME TO OUR TOWN AND LEAVE AND SAY, THAT WAS A GREAT VISIT. NOW I UNDERSTAND THAT, UH, THAT PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS GONNA BE AFFECTED AND THE NEEDS OF SOCIETY SHOULD OUTWEIGH THE NEEDS OF THE INDIVIDUAL. AND I THINK WE'VE ALL HEARD THIS AND I KNOW THAT YOU TRY VERY HARD TO GO AND WORK TOWARDS THE INDIVIDUAL, BUT THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE INDIVIDUALS WHO WILL BE AFFECTED. AND I THINK WE HAVE TO WEIGH THOSE NEEDS. I THINK THIS IS A GOOD PROJECT. I DON'T THINK THAT I SEE A HUGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE AND I'VE BEEN TO MANY OF THESE MEETINGS. UH, I THINK THAT YOU, IT'S WELL PLANNED. IT'S WELL THOUGHT OUT. I DO HAVE ONE COMMENT. UH, I THINK YOUR FOLIAGE SHOULD BE MIXED. UH, I DON'T THINK YOU WANT A WALL OF THE SAME TYPE OF PLANTS. I DO THINK THEY SHOULD BE DECIDUOUS AND NON DECIDUOUS. I THINK YOU SHOULD SEE THE SEASONS PLANNED A LITTLE BIT. YOU SHOULD NEVER PUT UP HARD SCAPE WHEN YOU CAN DO SOFT SCAPE. THAT'S JUST FROM MY BACKGROUND. BUT I, I, THE OTHER POINT I WANTED TO BRING UP IS, ANDY ALLUDED TO IF THE CITY DOES HAVE A COMMITTEE, COMMISSION, OR COMMITTEE, I GUESS IT'S WORKING TOGETHER. UH, WE WORKED ON THE, ON THE OVERVIEW, THE OLD HISTORY WALK UPTOWN. UH, AND WE WORKED ALMOST A YEAR AND A HALF ON THAT. YOUR IDEAS ARE ALL WELL TAKEN. I'LL HAVE LUNCH WITH YOU ONE DAY AND I'LL FIGHT FOR YOU BECAUSE, UH, ANDY KNOWS, UH, I LOVE SIGNS . AND IF YOU GO TO MY HOTEL IN THE FRONT, YOU'RE GONNA SEE ONE OF THE FIRST SIGNS WE DID. I'M, I'M A FIRM BELIEVER IN THAT, SO I, I THINK EVERYTHING THAT WAS PRESENTED TONIGHT WAS EXCELLENT. I FEEL BAD ABOUT THE NEIGHBORS THAT SOME WILL BE UPSET, BUT I, I THINK THEIR FEARS ARE UNFOUNDED. I KNOW THE CITY. I KNOW THEY'LL DO A GREAT JOB. AND I KNOW WE CAN ALL BE PROUD OF THIS WHEN WE'RE DONE. WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT WE ARE NOT A SMALL TOWN ANYMORE. WE ARE A MEDIUM SIZED CITY THAT HAS 30 TO 40,000 PEOPLE HERE ON THE WEEKEND. SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WE'RE GONNA HAVE GROWTH, WE'RE GONNA HAVE PEOPLE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE HIKERS AND THERE'S GOING TO BE CHANGE. MODERNITY IS HERE. SO I APPLAUD THE CITY. I LIKE THIS PROJECT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU, STEVE. THAT, UM, ENDS OUR PUBLIC COMMENTS AND I'LL CLOSE THE, UH, PUBLIC HEARING AND BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION. I'D LIKE TO START OUT WITH WHAT I THINK ARE THE IMPROVEMENTS ON THIS, UM, PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT THAT I DO SUPPORT. I DO SUPPORT THE DEDICATED LANE FOR THE SHUTTLE EXITING ONTO 1 79 AND NOT SWINGING WIDE INTO BO STRING. 'CAUSE THAT'S BEEN AN OBSTRUCTION, UH, FOR PEOPLE THAT LIVE, UH, IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. I THINK THE BATHROOMS ARE POORLY DESIGNED. THEY'RE VERY UTILITARIAN. AND I KNOW YOU'RE TRYING TO ESTABLISH A PROTOTYPE BECAUSE I, ONE OF THE STAFF MEMBERS TOLD ME THIS AFTERNOON THAT WHEN THE BATHROOMS WERE DESIGNED FOR THE RANGER STATION, THEY WERE KIND OF DONE WITH A SILVER SPOON AND THEY ENDED UP BEING REALLY EXPENSIVE, BUT REALLY BEAUTIFUL. SO THERE'S SOMETHING BETWEEN THAT AND WHAT'S ON THE PAPER HERE THAT I KNOW YOU CAN COME UP WITH. AND I, MAYBE IT'S A PITCHED ROOF. UM, MAYBE IT'S AN ADDITION OF SOME OTHER MATERIALS. IT'S VERY UTILITARIAN AND JUST FROM MY BOOK, [03:15:01] IT'S NOT AESTHETICALLY PLEASING WHATSOEVER. UM, I DIDN'T SEE, UH, A, UH, WATER STATION. IS THERE A WATER BOTTLE FILLING STATION? THERE IS. OKAY. AND I THOUGHT THAT WE HAD BROUGHT THAT UP BEFORE. SO IF WE'RE GONNA DO THAT, I'D LIKE TO ASK THE CITY TO STOP HANDING OUT PLASTIC BOTTLES ON THE SHUTTLES IF WE'RE PROVIDING WATER AT THE, UH, SHUTTLE STOP. WE FULLY AGREE. LET'S BE SUSTAINABLE IN ALL THINGS THAT WE DO. UM, I THINK THE RAMADA IS EXCELLENT. THE TAS THAT HAVE BEEN WORKING THROUGH RAIN AND HEAVY SUN, UH, DESERVE TO HAVE THAT SHADE. AND THEY DO A HECK OF A JOB UNDER VERY, VERY DIFFICULT CONDITIONS. UM, THE NEIGHBORHOOD SIDEWALK A PLUS BECAUSE IT'S VERY, VERY DANGEROUS WITH THE NUMBER AND THE VOLUME OF CARS THAT ARE COMING INTO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. PEOPLE THAT WALK, PEOPLE THAT HAVE FAMILIES AND CHILDREN AND DOGS NEED AT LEAST THE SAFETY FROM THAT JUNCTION FROM 1 79 UP TO THE CROSSWALK. SO I APPLAUD THAT. UM, THE CONSTANT TRAFFIC IS SEASONAL AND IT'S INTENSE AND IT'S RELATED TO GOOD WEATHER AND VACATIONS AND, UM, AND, AND TRAVEL PATTERNS. SO THIS ISN'T A CONSTANT NUISANCE IN THE COMMUNITY, BUT IT'S A HIGHLY FELT IMPACT WHEN IT OCCURS. UM, I DO NOT SUPPORT A 55% INCREASE IN PARKING SPACES, AND I DO NOT SUPPORT THE DISCRETION, THE DESTRUCTION OF TREES AND SHRUBS. UM, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE COMMISSION BETTER INFORMED AS TO WHAT'S COMING DOWN AND WHAT'S STAYING UP, BECAUSE WE'VE HAD A LOT OF CONFUSION TODAY ON THE SITE, WHAT THOSE COLORS MEANT. AND UM, SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT BOTH FROM A VISUAL, UM, STANDPOINT AND FROM A NOISE BARRIER THAT THEY'RE DENSE TREES, UH, ARE ALLOWED TO THRIVE THERE. THE, THE EXISTING ONES ARE CARED FOR BETTER AND THAT WE RETAIN THAT BUFFER INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, THE CURRENT SHUTTLE PARKING LOT TRANSFERRED THE TOURISM IMPACT FROM BACK OF BEYOND TO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. WE NOW HAVE WHAT BACK BEYOND COMPLAINED ABOUT. AND SO I, I FEEL IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT THE CITY UNDERSTANDS THAT THAT INTRUSION WAS JUST TRANSFERRED TO ANOTHER NEIGHBORHOOD. AND SO THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS SPOKEN TO ABOUT NOT INCREASING THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES AND RETAINING THE VEGETATION IS REALLY THE KEY TO, UH, RESPECTING THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE. THAT'S IT. OH, JUST TO CON CONFIRM, THE SITE PLAN SHOWS 104 SPACES, BUT YOUR TEXTS SAID THERE WOULD BE 99. SO WHICH IS IT? UH, I'D HAVE TO CHECK ON THAT. I THOUGHT IT WAS 99. OKAY. OKAY. I I ACTUALLY CHECKED THAT. IT'S 99. IT'S 99. OKAY. ALRIGHTY. YEAH, THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS. UM, START, LET'S START DOWN THIS WAY WITH ROB. I JUST WANNA ASK, UM, KATHY, REAL QUICK ON KNOWING THAT THERE'S 99 SPACES PROPOSED, WHAT NUMBER OF SPACES ARE YOU, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE? NONE. NO NEW SPACES? NO. YEAH. NO. ABOUT WHAT ABOUT IMPROVEMENT? I THINK ALL THE OTHER SAFETY IMPROVEMENTS ARE A PLUS PLUS. YEAH. SO THE LANE, THE PORT CHOP, THE RIGHT HAND TURN. OKAY. SO SIDE, YOU'D LOVE TO DO THE SAFETY IMPROVEMENTS, BUT JUST NOT INCREASE SAFETY. YEAH, SAFETY. THE PARKING SPACES, SAFETY. YEAH. OKAY. NO MORE IMPACT. OKAY. MM-HMM . AND HOW MANY ARE THERE CURRENTLY ON THAT SITE? 65. 65. OKAY. THANK YOU ROB. UH, FIRST OF, I WANNA ACKNOWLEDGE THE SENSITIVITY, ARCHITECTURAL SENSITIVITY OF MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. I WAS, I WAS HAVING A HARD TIME WITH THE BATHROOM. SO LET'S START WITH BATHROOMS FIRST. YOU KNOW, PUBLIC BATHROOMS THAT ARE USED SO MUCH ARE SO IMPORTANT TO SET AN IMAGE. WHEN I THINK ABOUT BATHROOMS, I THINK ABOUT NATURAL VENTILATION. MM-HMM . UH, AND I THINK ABOUT NATURAL DAYLIGHT. UH, DON'T HAVE TO TURN A LIGHT ON, DON'T HAVE TO RUN A FAN, AND THEY WORK A LOT BETTER. UM, I THINK BATHROOMS NEED, UH, LITTLE MORE GRACIOUS OVERHANGS. AND I ALSO THINK THE SUN SHELTER NEEDS A LITTLE MORE GRACIOUS OVERHANGS. YOU MIGHT THINK ABOUT THE BENCHES. YOU KNOW, BENCHES MEAN SOME PEOPLE UNDERNEATH THE SUN SHELL SHADE AND THE REST AREN'T, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF BUS STOPS DON'T HAVE BENCHES NECESSARILY. I'D HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT MORE. BUT MOSTLY WHAT BOTHERS ME IS THE LOCATION OF THE RESTROOM BUILDING. UM, IF I ZOOM IN INCREDIBLY CLOSE TO THAT, IT LOOKS LIKE A HANDICAPPED CAR COULD HIT THE POST [03:20:01] OR THE COLUMN OF THE BATHROOM. BUILDING. LOOKS LIKE YOU'VE GOT ABOUT A FOOT SETBACK FROM THE CURB. UH, I'D BE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. THE OTHER THING I'VE LEARNED IS LONG TIME AGO, CARS OVERHANG THE CURB BY THREE FEET SOMETIMES. SO I USED TO DRAW A FIVE FOOT TYPICAL SIDEWALK. AS YOU HAVE CAR COMES ALONG, SUDDENLY YOU HAVE A TWO FOOT SIDEWALK. SO I LEARNED IF I HAVE CARS AND A SIDEWALK, I NEEDED EIGHT FEET TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO COME AND GO ALONG THERE. UH, YOU KNOW, WALMART, COSTCO, SAFEWAY, EVERYBODY HAS LEARNED. PEOPLE WALK DOWN THE MIDDLE IN THESE KIND OF PARKING LOTS. I COULD SEE NOT HAVING A SIDEWALK THERE, MAYBE A GRAVEL PATHWAY IF PEOPLE WANT IT. PEOPLE UNLOAD THEIR CARS FROM THE REAR OF THE CAR, THEY PUSH STROLLERS. UM, I'VE JUST, IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST THE WAY WE ARE IN AMERICA WITH PARKING LOTS. I'VE PUT SIDEWALKS DOWN BETWEEN STALLS. NOBODY EVER WALKED ON IT. UM, YOU NEED A PROMENADE. I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN PLACES LIKE THIS IS ONCE I GET TO WHERE I'M GOING, I HAVE SOMETHING THAT ARRIVES AND I CAN WALK ONTO AND NOT WALK BETWEEN CARS TO GET TO MY ARRIVAL POINT. NOW THE SIDEWALK DOES THAT AS AN ARRIVAL POINT. BUT AS YOU COME DOWN THERE, YOU NEED SOMETHING, AN ISLAND OR SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE CAN GET TO THAT AREA. SO I MIGHT SUGGEST PUTTING THE BATHROOMS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD, NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF EVERYTHING. UH, THERE'S ROOM OVER WHERE THIS LITTLE PATH COMES DOWN. UH, YOU MIGHT THINK ABOUT PUTTING THEM OVER THERE. SOMETIMES BATHROOMS DON'T NEED TO BE FRONT AND CENTER AND THEY COULD, UH, THEY COULD GO OVER ON THAT SIDE, KIND OF WHERE THAT CURVED LITTLE SIDEWALK IS ANYWAY. YOU MIGHT REALLY, THEY LOOK LIKE THEY'RE JUST SQUEEZED IN THERE TERRIBLY AND THEY'RE GONNA GET HIT. UM, THE OTHER THING IS THIS ENTRY AND EXIT. I THINK JOE MADE A GOOD POINT ABOUT NOT WANTING PEOPLE TO LEFT TURN BACK INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, I FIND THAT STRIPING ON, ON PAVEMENT SOMETIMES MEANS, OH, I CAN PARK THERE MM-HMM . UM, WHAT IS THAT FOR? I UNDERSTAND YOU WANT TO GET PEOPLE TO TURN AROUND AND GO OUT, BUT PERHAPS THERE'S A WAY TO HAVE A DEFINITE IN LANE AND AN OUT LANE THAT ONLY IS RIGHT. TURNOUT NEVER CAN GO BACK TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND STILL ACCOMMODATE THE TURNAROUND THAT YOU NEED TO DO WHEN THE GATES CLOSED. UM, I JUST THINK THAT BIG WIDE OPEN AREA IS GONNA CAUSE IT HAS THE POSSIBILITY OF CAUSING SOME REAL CONFUSION. I THINK, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE IN CARS DO CRAZY THINGS AND THEY MAY DECIDE THAT IS SO WIDE, I MUST GO IN THAT WAY. I'M NOT GONNA GO PAST THE LAMB CHOP OR WHATEVER WE CALL IT. I'M GONNA JUST GO IN THIS GIANT, AND I KNOW SIGNS ARE WONDERFUL, BUT, UH, IT, IT WORKS BETTER WITHOUT IT. SO I, I THINK THE, I THINK THE VEHICLE CIRCULATION RIGHT AT THAT EXIT AND TURN AROUND MAY CAUSE SOME CONFUSION. AND, UH, YEAH. BATHROOMS ARE, BATHROOMS SHOULDN'T BE FRONT AND CENTER. AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, YOU GET TO SEE 'EM FROM THE OTHER SIDE. THIS IS A REAL MINOR POINT. I ALMOST HATE SAYING IT, BUT YOU MIGHT CONSIDER PUTTING THE MECHANIC ROOM DOOR ON THE OTHER SIDE FROM THE BATHROOM DOOR SO PEOPLE DON'T GET CONFUSED. IT'S JUST ONE LESS DOOR FACING THE PUBLIC. AND THAT'S INCREDIBLY DETAILED. , . UM, I WANT TO THANK STAFF FOR BRINGING BACK SOME REALLY THOUGHTFUL RETURNS TO OUR LAST MEETING. UM, IT'S VERY OBVIOUS YOU SPENT A LOT OF TIME AND TOOK A LOT OF CONSIDERATION INTO WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT BECAUSE THIS WAS A LOT MORE INFORMATION BOTH TO THE BANE OF MY LATE EXISTENCE AND ALSO TO LIKE BE VERY HELPFUL. UM, I'LL KEEP IT BRIEF. UH, I FEEL SIMILAR TO KATHY AND THAT I DON'T THINK THE SOUTH SIDE IS NECESSARY AT ALL. I DON'T WANT ANY ADDITIONAL PARKING. I DON'T LIKE PARKING. SHE SAID IT, NOT ME. MM-HMM . . UM, AND THAT'S NOT BECAUSE I DON'T WANT OUR RESIDENTS TO PARK THERE AND USE TRANSIT. THAT'S NOT IT AT ALL. I ACTUALLY THINK THIS IS A GUSHING WOUND. WE'RE TRYING TO TAKE A FINGER SIZE BANDAID AND STICK IT ON MM-HMM . RIGHT. IF WE'RE TURNING AWAY HUNDREDS MM-HMM . OF CARS A DAY DURING PEAK, WHICH IS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. 'CAUSE DURING LOW WE HAVE CAPACITY. IF WE'RE TURNING HUNDREDS OF CARS AWAY, IT IS LOVELY, THE IDEA THAT WE GET 35 MORE, BUT DOES NOT FIX ANY SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM. RIGHT. UM, THE FACT THAT, AND I'M SURE THE CONVERSATIONS ARE HAPPENING OF IDENTIFYING OTHER PLACES TO PARK, BUT I THINK THE MONEY AND EXPANSION OF THIS PARKING LOT COULD BE BETTER USED IN ANOTHER PLACE ON ROUTE. AND I KNOW THAT TRANSIT IS DYNAMIC. [03:25:01] I KNOW THAT THERE'S A LOT OF BALLS IN THE AIR. UM, BUT I'M OF THE POINT OF TAKING THE MONEY FOR THE EXPANSION OF THIS LOT FOR THE REASONS OF, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY NEGATIVE IMPACT. 35 CARS IS A DROP IN THE BUCKET DURING PEAK, AND I DON'T ACTUALLY THINK IT'S HELPFUL. AND THE, THE LOT IS JUST, IT TAKES UP A LOT OF ROOM IN THAT LOT. THE NORTHERN HALF. I HATE HOW MANY TREES WE LOSE WITH THAT SLIP LANE, BUT IT IS SUCH A GOOD IDEA. , I HAVE TALKED MYSELF INTO MM-HMM . THE MATURE TREES ON THAT SLIP LANE AGAINST MY OWN FEELINGS ABOUT TREES. RIGHT. UM, I HADN'T THOUGHT ABOUT THE BATHROOMS BEING FRONT AND CENTER AND I KNOW WHAT LIKE PUBLIC BATHROOMS SMELL LIKE. AND NOW I'M REALLY THINKING ABOUT THAT A LOT SINCE HE BROUGHT IT UP. BUT I ALSO DON'T WANT PEOPLE CROSSING IN FRONT OF THE PARKING LOT. I DON'T KNOW. THAT'S OUT OF MY SCOPE. UM, SO WHAT I'M, I GUESS MY MAIN IDEA IS TOP HALF. GREAT. LOVE IT. BOTTOM HALF. I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO TOUCH IT. A TURNAROUND WOULD BE NICE, BUT PEOPLE DEAL WITH PARKING LOTS WITHOUT A TURNAROUND EVERY DAY. AND MOST OF, MOST OF SEDONAS PARKING LOTS AREN'T TO CODE WITH TURNAROUNDS AND ENOUGH SPACE. THIS WOULDN'T BE ANY DIFFERENT THAN ANYWHERE ELSE IN TOWN TO ME. I THINK THAT WAS MOSTLY ABOUT, UH, FOR FIRE. OH, FIRE TRUCKS. YEAH. I THINK IT'S A, IT'S DEFINITELY A SAFETY THING. THAT MAKES SENSE. YEAH. UM, I THINK THAT'S A LITTLE GOOD IMPROVEMENT. OH, THE ACTUAL, YOU, YOU JUST DON'T WANT THEM TO STRIPE IT FOR PARKING. YOU WANT THEM TO ADD ALL THAT PAVEMENT AND NOT STRIPE IT. JUST THE TURNAROUND ON ON THE SOUTH END. YEAH. WILL YOU REALLY SAVE ANY PAVEMENT FROM NOT PUTTING PARKING SPOTS THERE? YEAH. SO YOU'D, YOU'D PAVE IT AND JUST NOT PUT PARKING. IF YOU'RE GONNA PAVE IT, THEN I THINK YOU SHOULD PUT PARKING SPOTS THERE BECAUSE I MEAN, THEN IT'S, THEY'RE GONNA BE PARK, THEY'RE GONNA BE PARKING SPOTS ANYWAY. PEOPLE ARE GONNA PARK IN THEM. EXACTLY. YOU WANT TO CONTROL WHAT PEOPLE DO IN THE SPACE AND THEN THEY'LL BLOCK THE TURNAROUND AND THEN YOU DON'T HAVE CHAOS. ANY, IF THERE'S A DIFFERENT FIRE TURNAROUND SITUATION THAT DOESN'T EXPAND THE LOT, I GUESS I'D SUPPORT THAT. UM, BECAUSE THERE ARE DIFFERENT CONFIGURATIONS. UH, TO ME EXPANDING THE LOT FOR PARKING ISN'T ABOUT PARKING. IT'S ABOUT EXPANDING PAVEMENT AND KILLING TREES AND HAVING MORE HEAT ISLAND IN A PLACE THAT IT'S NOT EVEN GONNA FIX THE PROBLEM IT'S TRYING TO FIX. I JUST DON'T WANT, I JUST DON'T THINK TOUCH THAT SOUTH SIDE OF THE LOT AT ALL IS WHERE I'M AT. I MEAN, YOU CAN FIX THE ISLANDS AND THE PAVEMENT AND WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, UM, DO WHAT YOU DO THERE. BUT, UH, I'M SAYING DON'T TOUCH THE SOUTH SIDE WITHIN REASON OF MAINTENANCE AND WHATNOT, SO MM-HMM . BUT EVERYTHING AT THE TOP, OTHER THAN THE BATH, MY THIRD, FOURTH, THE BATHROOMS, IF THAT'S GONNA BE OUR PROTOTYPE, IT FEELS LIKE THE NATIONAL PARK BATHROOMS THAT WERE BUILT IN LIKE 1985 THAT STILL LOOK LIKE THAT. WHICH I GUESS IF YOU WANT THAT FAMILIARITY OF LIKE, HEY, YOU'RE OUTSIDE AND YOU'RE GONNA GO HIKING AND THESE BATHROOMS LOOK JUST LIKE THIS. OH, THANK YOU. PERFECT. UM, OTHERWISE IT DOESN'T REALLY, OUR TOWN BUILDS REALLY PRETTY THINGS. , HAVE YOU SEEN THE WALL ON FOREST ROAD? THEY BUILT WITH THE BOULDERS? ? LIKE WE, THE THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS PRETTY, SO I THINK IT WOULD BE NICE TO CONTINUE WITH THAT. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YOU, SEVERAL OF YOU HAVE MENTIONED, AND I, I I, I WAS TRYING TO PROCESS THIS ABOUT THE NUMBER OF CARS AND THE, AND THAT SORT OF THING. COULD YOU BRING UP THE RENDERED PLAN PLEASE? THE RENDERED PLAN? THE RENDERED SITE PLAN. IT'S THE, THE TREE COLOR ONE. WHAT, WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS WHEN YOU SAY 55% MORE CARS, MORE PARKING SPACES. MORE PARKING SPACES. BUT I SEE THAT THE PARKING LOT IS NOT BEING EXTENDED IN LENGTH, CORRECT? NO, IT'S THE SAME LENGTH. WE'RE ADDING A LITTLE PIECE ON THE BOTTOM AND FIVE HANDICAP SAWS ON THE TOP. JUST TO MY MY MIND, HALF OF THE WHITE SHOULD BE, I MEAN, THERE SHOULD BE A LOT MORE GRAY. SO HOW ARE YOU REALLY GETTING THE ROUNDABOUT THEY'RE TAKING OUT THAT ROUND ROUNDABOUT THING? WELL, I, I, YEAH, I UNDERSTAND. BUT IT, IT'S A LITTLE BIT TO, TO ME, UM, I UNDERSTAND WE'RE ADDING 55% MORE CARS, WHICH IS 34 CARS. 30. BUT WHEN I LOOK AT THE AMOUNT OF PAVEMENT, IT'S A LOT ALREADY. AND WE'RE ADDING SOME AT THE END AND SOME AT THE BEGINNING. SO I LOOK AT IT WITH A LITTLE DIFFERENT LENS AS FAR AS THE OVERALL IMPACT. IF I JUST LOOK AT CARS. YEAH. BUT IF I REALLY LOOK AT ALL THAT THAT'S EXISTING AND WHAT I'M ADDING, IT DOESN'T SEEM THAT CRAZY. WELL, ENJOY YOUR CARDS HERE. I REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY COMMENTS. OKAY. CHARLOTTE, ALL THAT I, I WANNA REPEAT WITHOUT HAVING TO REPEAT ALL THE GOOD THINGS THAT YOU WERE SAYING AND YOU WERE SAYING ABOUT THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE MM-HMM . UM, I STILL WOULD, AND I ALSO AGREE THAT 32 OR 34, WHATEVER IT IS, NUMBER OF ADDITIONAL SPOTS IS NOT GONNA [03:30:01] MAKE A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE. I, I SEE THE CHURCH AT ONE END AND I SEE, UM, SUNIL WEST AND THAT OTHER STUFF AT THE OTHER END, AND I DON'T WANT TO ADD TO THE COMMERCIAL LOOK MM-HMM . OF WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. SO, ALTHOUGH I REALLY DO LIKE THAT SLIP LANE AND, AND I DO THINK THAT'S AN IMPROVEMENT, BUT ANYTHING WE CAN DO THAT WILL ACCOMMODATE THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND I DON'T THINK WE'LL WILL REALLY ADD THAT MUCH AS A SOLUTION TO THE PARKING, UM, ISSUE. I WISH WE WOULD DO. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS, IF WE ALL COULD JUST TAKE ONE MOMENT AND LOOK AT THE RENDERING, IT'S A LITTLE DEEP, BUT WHERE THAT ROUNDABOUT IS, THERE'S NO PARKING THERE CURRENTLY. IT'S JUST A LANE THAT THEY GO AROUND IN CIRCLES. SO WHEN THEY, WHEN THEY BLOW OUT THAT, THAT ROUNDABOUT, THAT BRINGS 30 PARKING SPACES ALONE, JUST THAT ROUNDABOUT DOES. SO WHEN THEY, 'CAUSE IT SAYS RIGHT HERE IN YOUR PLAN, IT SAYS 21 SPACES ON THE WEST SIDE AND THERE'S 19 ON THE EAST. SO MOST OF IT IS COMING IN FROM THE LOSING THAT ROUNDABOUT. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT SOUTH END. ONLY A FEW SPACES ARE ON THE SOUTH END. THE SOUTH END BECOMES THE TURNAROUND INSTEAD OF . WELL, THE SOUTH YEAH. BUT THERE'S, THERE'S PARKING SPACES THERE. SO, AND WE'RE TRYING TO, I I'M JUST, I'M JUST THINKING OUT LOUD BECAUSE RIGHT. WE DON'T NEED THAT MANY. BUT WE KNOW KATHY ALREADY HAD TALKED ABOUT, HEY, WE CAN GET RID OF THAT MIDDLE ROUNDABOUT. WELL, YOU'RE STILL, YOU'RE MAKING 30 SPACES RIGHT THERE AND THEN THAT ON THE SOUTH END WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, 'CAUSE THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF THOSE GOOD TREES ARE THAT WE DON'T WANNA LOSE. WHAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT CAN THAT LOOK LIKE? DOES THAT, DO WE NEED THOSE EXTRA SPACES THERE? SHOULD WE, YOU KNOW, SHOULD THIS BE A HAMMERHEAD BECAUSE THE, WILL THE HAMMERHEAD TAKE UP LESS SQUARE SQUARE FOOTAGE INSTEAD OF THIS ROUNDING CONCEPT? I'M JUST CURIOUS, ONE, ONE THING THAT'S GOING ON HERE IS IF WE TAKE THAT TURNAROUND OUT, THEN WE NO LONGER HAVE A TURNAROUND AT ALL. SO NOW WE NEED TO ADD IT AT THE END. BUT BECAUSE OF MY YEARS OF NOT BEING HERE, I WASN'T SURE WHAT, IF I'M ALLOWED TO RESPOND OR IT'S BEEN SO LONG THERE, THERE ARE SOME THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO PROVIDE IF THAT'S ACCEPTABLE TO THE COMMISSION. SURE. SO ONE THING THAT COULD WORK HERE, IF IT'S PREFERABLE BY THE COMMISSION, WOULD BE TO NOT PAVE THE EXPANDED AREA, BUT TO BUILD IT MORE LIKE SOME OF OUR PARKING RIDES THAT, LIKE AT AT POT GROUND PARK RIDE MM-HMM . WHERE IT'S, IT'S DECOMPOSED GRANITE, UM, STABILIZED. IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S HARDENED, THAT SORT OF THING, BUT IT'S A NATURAL LOOK MM-HMM . AND TYPICALLY WHAT WE DO IS WE, WE STRIPE THAT WITH FIRE HOSE. SO IT'S, IT'S A MORE NATURAL BLENDED LOOK. THE OTHER THING THAT WE COULD DO HERE, I MEAN, FOR ONE, WE CAN COMMIT TO ADDING AT LEAST THE SCREENING THAT P AND Z WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH. I MEAN, SOMEONE MENTIONED EARLIER, ARE YOU GONNA COME BACK TO P AND Z AFTER YOU BUILD THIS? WE'D BE WILLING TO DO THAT. UM, IF, IF THAT'S WHAT PLANNING AND ZONING WOULD LIKE TO SEE, WE WOULD BE WILLING TO COMMIT TO THAT. THEN THE OTHER THING I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SPEAK TO, AND MAYBE AMBER'S DYING TO SPEAK TO THIS AS WELL, IS THE WHOLE STEM PROGRAM, OUR ENTIRE TRANSPORTATION PROGRAM, INCLUDING TRANSIT, ALL THE FOREST ROAD, YOU SEE ALL THE PROJECTS THAT WE DO ARE, ARE ALL SIMILARLY BUILT ON THE CONCEPT OF IT'S NOT ALL SUPPOSED TO SOLVE THE ISSUE WITH ONE PROJECT. SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ADDING 35 SPACES, THIS IS A COMPONENT OF WHAT WE PLAN TO DO TO SOLVE THE CAPACITY ISSUE FOR THIS AREA. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DON'T DO IT HERE, DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE, THOSE OTHER LOCATIONS WE'VE LOOKED AT, YOU KNOW, WE HAD TO REZONE THIS EVEN THOUGH IT WAS ALREADY A PARKING LOT. WE DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE NECESSARILY AND REZONE THAT TO ADD 35 SPACES. WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS, JUST LIKE WITH OUR SIM PROJECTS, WE'RE TRYING TO TAKE OUT THE BOTTLENECKS AND THEN MANAGE THE CAPACITY WITH OTHER MODES WITH OUR TRAFFIC. WE, WE CREATE CONNECTIVITY, OUR SIM FIVE PROGRAMS, ALL OF THE CONNECTION PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE THAT'S ABOUT REMOVING THE BOTTLENECKS. AND THEN WE MANAGE THE TRAFFIC WITH TRANSIT, MULTIMODAL, THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. SIGNING INFORMATION, EDUCATION, THOSE, THOSE ARE THE CONCEPTS THAT WE'RE WORKING AT HERE. IT'S NOT 35 SPACES ARE GONNA SOLVE EVERYTHING. THAT WAS NEVER THE INTENT. THIS IS A PART OF THE PLAN THAT WE'RE TRYING TO IMPLEMENT TO HELP THE WHOLE PROGRAM, INCLUDING WHAT TRA WHAT AMBER TALKED ABOUT EARLIER WITH THE TECHNOLOGY. THAT'S A COMPONENT OF WHAT WE'RE [03:35:01] TRYING TO DO. ONCE WE GET TO WHERE WE THINK THIS, THIS PARKING LOT IS FULL, THIS IS THE CAPACITY WE NEED NOW. WE NEED TO MANAGE IT THIS FROM THIS POINT FORWARD, NOW WE KNOW THE NUMBER, RIGHT? THEN WE IMPLEMENT THESE OTHER TOOLS THAT WE HAVE AT OUR DISPOSAL, INCLUDING POSSIBLE FEE PARKING. IF, IF WE WANT TO INCENTIVIZE AND DECENTIVIZE AND SAY, WE DON'T WANT YOU HERE BECAUSE YOU'RE OVER THE CAPACITY OF WHAT WE CAN HANDLE. THAT'S OUR INTENT IS TO HANDLE IT THAT WAY. SO WE'D REALLY LIKE TO PROVIDE A PRODUCT FOR THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION THAT YOU'RE HAPPY WITH. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE AFTER TONIGHT. I WELL SAID. I, I HAVE SOME COMMENTS STILL BEFORE, CAN I GO OR DO YOU WANT ME TO WAIT? UM, YEAH, GO AHEAD. OKAY. SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK YOU HEARD TODAY, UM, FROM OUR COMMUNITY AND WE'VE HEARD BEFORE, THIS IS NOTHING NEW FOR ANY OF US, IS WE'RE LOSING OUR NEIGHBORHOODS. AND I SEE THIS, THIS, THIS MITIGATION OF TOURISTS AND I SEE, OH, WE HAVE THE TRAFFIC CONTROL SPECIALISTS, THEY'LL HELP OUT. BUT WHAT'S LACKING HERE, AND THIS IS SPEAKING TO YOU AS THE DEPUTY CITY MANAGER, WHAT'S LACKING HERE IS A NEIGHBORHOOD OUTREACH PERSON TO HELP THESE NEIGHBORHOODS START IDENTIFYING THEMSELVES AS NEIGHBORHOODS. UM, I KNOW THIS PERSONALLY, WORKING WITH SUSTAINABILITY, SUSTAINABLE NEIGHBORHOODS, UM, MY COMMUNITY, I'M LUCKY WE'RE A NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT NO ONE ELSE WANTS TO DO IT. IT BECAUSE THEY'RE MOSTLY, YOU KNOW, VRBO. SO HOW DO WE, THE FOLKS THAT ARE HERE FULL TIME, START IDENTIFYING THAT WE NEED TO SAVE OUR NEIGHBORHOODS. AND THAT'S WHERE THIS IS ALL COMING FROM. IF THE NEIGHBORHOOD WASN'T SO NEGATIVELY AFFECTED BY TRAFFIC, THEY WOULDN'T CARE IF THERE WAS A PARKING LOT. AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT, WHAT THEY'RE SAYING. OH, WE NEED A PARKING LOT HERE. WE NEED A PARKING LOT THERE. AND, AND YOU KNOW WHAT? WE KNOW THAT, THAT WE CAN'T DO THAT. UM, AND SAVING TREES IS SUPER IMPORTANT TO A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE. AND IT'S A PASSION OF MINE AS WELL. I LIKE THIS PLAN. I LIKE THE IDEA OF IT. I LIKE, YOU KNOW, SOME MORE, LIKE WE JUST TALKED ABOUT THE AMENITY COMPONENT, BUT WHAT'S REALLY MISSING IS THIS CONNECTION THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE WITH OUR NEIGHBORS. AND, AND IT'S AN OVER, IT'S NOT JUST THIS PROJECT. THERE'S LOTS OF PROJECTS THAT THE CITY HAS DONE THAT WE JUST DON'T INCLUDE THE, WE, WE, WE DO THE 300 FOOT THING, UM, WHICH IS LEGAL AND A CRACKED INAPPROPRIATE. BUT YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE CRY HERE, RIGHT? RIGHT. THAT'S THE CRY HERE. IT'S NOT THE PARKING, IT'S NOT THE CARS. IT'S NOT THE EMISSION. IT'S NOT THE NOISE. I MEAN, I'VE BEEN IN HERE WHERE PEOPLE CAN GO ON FOR 15, 20 MINUTES WITH ALL THEIR FRIENDS ABOUT THE DECIBELS WHEN THEY PUT THEIR HEARING STUFF ON AND THEY DO THIS AND THAT. PICKLEBALL, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT. RIGHT. SO THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND LOSING THEIR IDENTITY WITH NEIGHBORHOOD. SO THERE'S THAT CONNECTION IS MISSING. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SOLVE IT. 'CAUSE I, I'M, I'M NOT A NEIGHBORHOOD SPECIALIST. UM, AND, AND SO I THINK THAT THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF THIS IS COMING FROM. THE TREES, THE PERMEABLE PAVEMENTS, THOSE KIND OF THINGS THAT WE LOOK AT AND THAT WE WANT. AND, AND IT'S HARD. LIKE THIS IS A PAVED SURFACE, BUT DO WE NEED A PAVED SURFACE HERE? YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH MONEY DOES IT COST TO GET RID OF THE PAVEMENT AND THROW IN THE GRANITE OR CRUSH THAT AND, YOU KNOW, AND MAKE IT SO THAT IT'S PERMEABLE AND IT'S MORE NATURAL. I, I JUST THINK IT'S A, IT'S GOOD. I THINK WE COULD DO BETTER. I THINK WE'RE MISSING THE SUSTAINABILITY COMPONENT. WE'RE MISSING THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONNECTION COMPONENT. SO, I MEAN, I DON'T THINK IT'S A BAD THING, BUT I THINK, UH, THESE FEW YEARS I'VE BEEN ON THE COMMISSION, IT'S MISSING SUSTAINABILITY. IT'S MISSING ART, IT'S MISSING CONNECTION. AND YET WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE NEED TO MITIGATE THIS TRAFFIC TO UNDERSTAND, BUT ALSO THIS CONNECTION TO THE COMMUNITY. I'M NOT SAYING IT'S BAD, IT'S PROBABLY OFF TOPIC, BUT YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES WE DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY. WE AS A BODY, WE HAVE TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST THESE, THESE MISSING CONNECTIONS THAT ARE AT THE CITY LEVEL. I . YES. . SO FIRST OF ALL, WITH SUSTAINABILITY, STAFF JUMP IN WHEREVER YOU NEED TO, BUT THERE ACTUALLY ARE COMPONENTS HERE, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, YOU KNOW, SHADE, WATER FILL STATIONS, THOSE SORTS OF THINGS ARE ACTUALLY PART OF OUR SUSTAINABILITY. TRUE. SORRY ABOUT THAT. UM, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, IF, IF THE COMMISSION PREFERS THAT, THAT WHOLE, LET'S CALL IT SOUTH END OF THE LOT OR DECOMPOSED GRANITE, WE CAN MAKE THAT HAPPEN. THAT THAT IS AN OPTION. WE'RE, WE'RE WILLING TO DO THAT. AND THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER SUSTAINABILITY COMPONENT. RIGHT. SPEAKING TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONNECTION. THIS IS VERY PERSONAL TO ME. WHEN WE FIRST BEGAN THIS PROJECT, WE CAME IN AND FIRST [03:40:01] LEASED IT FROM THE CHURCH. AND IT, IT WAS OUR INTENT TO MAKE SURE THIS WORKS. WE HAD MEASURES PUT IN PLACE TO ENSURE BRINGING IN TCAS HERE, THOSE TRAFFIC CONTROL ASSISTANCE. THAT IS PART OF WHAT WE'RE INTENDING TO DO TO MAKE SURE THERE IS AS MINIMAL IMPACT ON THE ADJACENT NEIGHBORHOOD AS POSSIBLE. BUT OUR EYES ARE NOT THERE ALL THE TIME. AND UNFORTUNATELY WHAT HAPPENS IS YOU HAVE STAFF TURNOVER. BUT WHAT I CAN SAY IS THAT WHEN PEOPLE REACHED OUT TO ME, THERE WAS A CORRECTIVE ACTION PUT IN PLACE IMMEDIATELY. THAT'S TRUE. WHEN, WHEN ALETHA, DID I SAY THAT WRONG? AL ALTHEA, I'M SORRY. I KNEW I SAID THAT WRONG. AS SOON AS I SAID IT REACHED OUT TO ME TWICE, I ADDRESSED IT IMMEDIATELY. MM-HMM . THAT'S YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD CONNECTION, IS PEOPLE JUST GOTTA TALK TO ME. LET ME KNOW. I CAN'T ALWAYS KNOW THAT IT HAPPENS WHEN A, WHEN A CAR BREAKS DOWN AT THE, AT THE ENTRANCE AND THEY HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO SEND THE CARS INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WE CAN'T HELP THAT THAT HAPPENED. WE HATE THAT IT HAPPENED. BUT WHAT I CAN COMMIT TO YOU IS IF YOU WILL TALK TO ME, I WILL MAKE SURE IT HAPPENS BECAUSE THAT'S MY JOB. MM-HMM . WHEN PEOPLE LET ME KNOW THERE'S AN ISSUE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, I DON'T CARE WHAT NEIGHBORHOOD IT IS, I WILL ADDRESS IT. SO PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT. YEP. HE'S, HE'S VERY RESPONSIVE. WELL, I THINK WE'RE HEARING THERE'S AN ISSUE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, RIGHT? AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ALL TRYING TO ADDRESS, IS THAT THERE'S, THERE'S ISSUES THAT ARE ONGOING JUST BECAUSE OF CAPACITY. MM-HMM . IF THAT'S THE CASE, UNFORTUNATELY MM-HMM . I HAVE NOT BEEN AWARE OF IT. MM-HMM . OUR JOHN OVERSEES OUR TCAS UNDER KURT. HE KNOWS THAT THE DIRECTION TO THOSE TCAS IS TO NOT SEND THOSE PEOPLE, DON'T ALLOW THEM TO GO INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WE GET STAFF TURNOVER AND UNFORTUNATELY THAT TAUGHT LESSON DOESN'T CARRY OVER AND THEY CAN'T MONITOR THAT, THAT AREA 24 7. YEAH. THEIR, THEIR OURS ARE ON THE PARKING LOT. WELL, AND I'M NOT, I'M NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT JUST SENDING 'EM UP THE ROAD. THERE IS A CAPACITY ISSUE THAT IS AFFECTING THE NEIGHBORHOOD. RIGHT. AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS TELLING US, HEY, THERE'S AN ISSUE. IT'S CAPACITY. RIGHT? 35, THROW THE 35 SPOTS IN, LIKE, FORGET WHAT I SAID, THROW 'EM ALL IN. THEY GET BUILT TOMORROW. THAT CAPACITY ISSUE STILL EXISTS. THE NEIGHBORHOOD STILL HAS THE SAME PROBLEM. MM-HMM . THIS DOESN'T ACTUALLY MITIGATE THAT PROBLEM. IT DEFINITELY HELPS THE INTERACTIONS. IT IT HELPS. AND THE PIECE OF IT GETTING, GETTING PEOPLE TO NOT BE SENT INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WHAT WAS STATED EARLIER ABOUT THE PORK CHOP, THAT'S A CONCRETE PORK CHOP. YOU CAN'T EASILY DRIVE OVER THAT. OKAY. THAT IS NOT A STRIPED OUT PORK CHOP. RIGHT. THAT, THAT'S THE INTENT OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE. IF YOU'RE AT A MPM OR WALGREENS, YOU SEE A VERSION OF THAT PRETTY INEFFECTIVE. BUT THIS IS AN EFFECTIVE ONE. THIS IS PUT IN A PLACE WHERE IF YOU, IF YOU TRY TO MAKE A LEFT TURN, YOU'RE GONNA DRIVE OVER CONCRETE A CURB AND IT'S GONNA, IT'S GONNA MAKE, IF THERE'S GONNA BE DAMAGE TO YOUR VEHICLE, IF IT'S LOW, IF IT'S A CAR, I'M POINTING AT THIS RIGHT HERE. YEAH. THAT . THE OTHER THING TOO THAT I DON'T THINK WE EXPLAINED WELL EARLIER, AND I ALMOST JUMPED IN, IS IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN GUYS, THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE STRIPED OUT WHERE YES, NORMAL VEHICLES DO NOT PULL INTO THIS SIDE AREA. THEY PULL UP ADJACENT TO THE PORK CHOP. SO YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT. IF THEY PULL INTO THE STRIPING OVER HERE THAT NORMAL PEOPLE WOULD NOT, THEY COULD STILL MAKE A LEFT, BUT THAT'S NOT THE WAY HUMAN INTERACTION OCCURS. THEY'RE GONNA NORMAL PEOPLE. YEAH. YOU'LL HAVE ONE OUT OF WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY NOT. BUT MOST PEOPLE ARE GONNA COMPLY WITH THE CHANNELIZATION THAT WE PUT IN PLACE THERE. AND WE HAVE METHODS. WHAT IT'S, I, I'M, I'M NOT A ROAD, I'M NOT A ROAD WARRIOR OR ROAD PERSON, BUT I'M LOOKING AT THIS PORK CHOP AND I'M LOOKING AT THIS SPACE AND I KNOW THERE'S SO MANY FEET, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. IS THERE A WAY TO PUT A MINI PORK CHOP IN HERE? NO, I, I'M, I'M, I'M MEANING IT WHERE THERE'S CURBING SO THAT THEY HAVE TO FOLLOW THAT CURBING TO GET OUT. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? SO THEY'RE FORCED EITHER, EITHER RAISE CURBING, LIKE YOU WOULD CURB IT, BUT MAYBE ALLOW THIS MUCH FOR THE TURNAROUND. BUT IT'S CURVED SO IT ALMOST FOLLOWS THAT LINE AND IT DUMPS 'EM IN THE BLUE STRING AND THEN THEY CAN'T MAKE A LEFT HAND TURN OR THEY'RE GONNA GO OVER CURBING. I THINK IF I'M FOLLOWING YOU CORRECTLY, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS, CAN WE EXTEND THIS CURB LINE FURTHER IN THIS DIRECTION OVER HERE, THE LEFT SIDE OF THE STRIPING, THAT ALIGNMENT TO DEFINE THAT, WHETHER SHE WAS SAYING CURB OR BOLLARDS SO THAT PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, SO THEY WOULD BE FORCED. LIKE YOU, YOU USE IT AS A TURNAROUND FOR SURE, BUT NOW YOU HAVE SOMETHING IN PLACE WHERE IT'S FORCING THEM. IF, IF THEY GO LEFT, THEY'RE GOING TO LIKE, SO SHOULD WE DO THOSE LITTLE PLASTIC THINGS, THEY'RE [03:45:01] GONNA GET SCRATCHED. UM, OR THEY GO OVER A CURB, THEY'RE GONNA LOSE THEIR ALIGNMENT OR FLAT TIRE. AND THEN THAT WAY THEY'RE FORCED AND THEY'RE NOT GOING LEFT IN THERE. I KNOW WE HAVE THE TCAS AND THEY'RE GREAT, BUT I'LL TELL YOU, I HAD, I HAD MY BEST FRIEND FROM CHICAGO HERE THIS WEEKEND AND HE TALKED HIMSELF THROUGH EVERY SINGLE ROADBLOCK. SO JUST SO YOU KNOW, WE, WE DEFINITELY CAN DO THAT. AND BACK TO WHAT YOU WERE SAYING EARLIER ABOUT AESTHETICS, I WOULD PREFER TO PUT LIKE A SINGLE CURB TYPE, SMALL LITTLE AREA HERE TO KEEP THAT CHANNELIZATION WORKING. MM-HMM . MM-HMM . YES. BECAUSE THOSE, THOSE TUBULAR MARKERS, THE BOLLARDS, THEY GET RUN OVER OVER TIME AND THEY JUST LOOK HORRIBLE. YEAH. SO I WOULD RATHER DO SOMETHING MORE PERMANENT LIKE THAT. AND BACK TO THE, THE THING ABOUT THE RESTROOM EARLIER, OUR SEWER SYSTEM IS OVER ON THIS CORNER RIGHT HERE. THAT'S PART OF WHAT'S DRIVING THE LOCATION FOR THE RESTROOM. FIGURED THAT, AND YES, WE ABSOLUTELY, EVEN THOUGH THIS MEETS CODE, BY ALL MEANS, WE CAN CERTAINLY DO SOME MASSING ADJUSTMENT TYPE STUFF TO THIS BUILDING. UM, DESIGN, I MEANT TO MENTION THAT EARLIER SHARED ROOF. SO, AND I ALSO WANTED ANDY, THAT TERMINAL AREA. THAT WOULD BE A GREAT DG AREA BECAUSE AGAIN, COULD BE YOU'RE CHANGING THE SURFACE AREA. YOU'RE ANNOUNCING THAT WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO DRIVE THERE, BUT IT STILL ALLOWS THAT TRAFFIC MOVEMENT. THAT'S TRUE. UM, SO, AND WE NEED A LARGE AREA 'CAUSE WE GET PEOPLE IN THERE WHO WANNA PULL A TRAILER IN THERE OR THEY GOT AN OVERSIZED RV. SO WE HAVE OVERSIZED VEHICLES. THIS IS TO HELP OUR TCAS, UM MM-HMM . GET THAT RESILIENCY TO KEEP THAT TRAFFIC MOVING WHEN THESE HIGH FLOWS AGAIN, SO IT'S NOT ENCROACHING INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO PROTECT THAT QUALITY OF LIFE THAT YOU GUYS ARE LOOKING FOR. MM-HMM . WELL THERE SEEMS TO BE CONSENSUS THAT PUTTING IN THAT BYPASS LANE IS A GREATER SAFETY CONTRIBUTION VIS-A-VIS RETAINING THE TREES. BUT ON THE SOUTH SIDE, HOW MANY PARKING SPACES, UM, COULD WE PULL OUT SO THAT WE COULD RETAIN THE EXISTING LANDSCAPING DOWN THERE? ELIMINATE ON THE SOUTH SIDE. DO YOU WANT THE TURNAROUND, KATHY? YEAH. IT'S THERE. SO YOU'D LIKE TO KEEP MAINTAIN THE, THE, THE ROUNDABOUT IN THE MIDDLE COMES OUT. RIGHT? BUT YOU WANT THE TURN, THE TURNAROUND AT THE BOTTOM. WOULD YOU WANNA KEEP MAINTAIN THAT? YEAH. NO, NO, NO. MAKES SENSE. WHERE IT'S PROPOSED. TAKE THESE PARKING SPACES OUT. THE NEW, THE NEW ONES THAT YOU HAVE PROPOSED ON THE SOUTH SIDE. THAT'S ONE. TWO, HOW MANY WERE THOSE? 5, 6, 7, 8. LOOKS LIKE EIGHT IS WHAT I COUNT. EIGHT. MM-HMM . YEAH. EIGHT IN THAT ONE ROW. OKAY. YEAH. ALRIGHT. BUT IS THAT, IS THAT, I MEAN, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD, YOU COULD, YOU COULD TAKE AS MANY PARKING PLACES OUT. I MEAN, PHYSICALLY YOU CAN ELIMINATE AS MANY AS YOU WANT. BUT I THINK THE COMMISSIONER, THE CHAIRPERSON'S, EXCUSE ME, THEIR POINT IS I THINK THAT'S THE MOST IMPACTFUL VISUALLY MM-HMM . IT'S ON THE HIGHWAY. IT'S PLEASE. IF WE WERE TO ELIMINATE THOSE EIGHT SPACES RIGHT. WHAT DOES THAT DO TO OUR PLAN? RIGHT. COUNT. THAT'S MORE OF A STEVE QUESTION THAT'S TAKING OUT ABOUT WHAT? A THIRD OF 'EM. OH, IT, WELL, A LITTLE MORE THAN THAT. UH, AND THE NUMBER OF, OF TREES ASPECT. UHHUH . YES. I THINK, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, THE LARGEST CLUSTER OF REMOVALS WAS KIND OF IN THIS AREA. MM-HMM . AND IF I'M HEARING RIGHT, IF WE WANNA MAINTAIN THE CIRCULATION, BUT MINIMIZE TREES, THESE SPACES, THOSE SPACES. MM-HMM . AND THIS WOULD PROBABLY CURVE MM-HMM . BETTER. UH, 'CAUSE I THINK THERE WAS ANOTHER TREE OVER HERE THAT WAS CLOSE. YEAH, YEAH. UH, SO IT COULD BE A KIND OF A BALANCE BETWEEN, UH, CIRCULATION, WHICH IS A SAFETY IMPROVEMENT. RIGHT. AND MAINTAINING THE EXISTING, UH, MATURE TREES THAT ARE IN THAT AREA YEAH. IS NOT GONNA REMOVE OR REDUCE ALL OF THE REMOVALS, BUT IT'LL SIGNIFICANTLY MM-HMM . UH, IMPROVED THAT. I MEAN, THAT MIGHT BE A COMPROMISE. I LIKE IT. UH, BUT WE WOULD HAVE TO MAINTAIN THE FIRE, THE FIRE TRUCK, UM MM-HMM . HAMMERHEAD. YEAH. IF YOU CAN SEE THAT. RIGHT. THEY KIND OF DO A THREE POINT TURN. THEY CAN'T DO THIS, BUT THEY, SO WE'D HAVE TO KEEP THAT, THAT RECTANGLE THERE. YEAH. SO YOU WOULDN'T EVEN NEED THE GO AROUND BIT FOR THE HAMMERHEAD. YOU JUST NEED THAT ONE WING. THE HAMMERHEADS FOR THE, IF I COULD , SORRY. YEAH. YEAH. I KNOW. UM, THE HAMMERHEADS FOR THE FIRETRUCK TO TURN AROUND, WHICH WAS A REQUIREMENT. RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. I'M SAYING BUT FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON THAT IS COMING DOWN THE LOT THAT HAS TO TURN AROUND BECAUSE THEY EITHER MISSED A SPOT OR THEY'RE LEAVING MM-HMM . IT'S THE BACK OUT PLACE. IT'S THE, IT'S THE RETURN TRIP RIGHT. BACK OUT OF THE LOT. RIGHT. UM, I'M, I'D BE MORE SUPPORTIVE AS A, UH, MUCH NON ASPHALT AS POSSIBLE. I'M ACTUALLY CONFUSED WHY IT WAS, WASN'T [03:50:01] PROPOSED THAT WAY IN LINES WITH SUSTAINABILITY INITIALLY. UM, IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO IT, I GUESS THAT FEELS A LITTLE BETTER. UM, AND ALSO, BUT NOT PARTIALLY WHOLLY. YOU WANNA DO THE WHOLE LOT IN WHY WOULD YOU DO ONLY PARTIALLY? I MEAN, THERE'S SOME LOTS AND POSSE GROUNDS THAT ARE PARTIAL THAT ARE KIND OF NICE AND THERE'S PROBABLY A PRETTY BIG ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT TO PULLING UP EXISTING ASPHALT. UM, I MEAN YOU COULD EVEN DO THE DRIVE AISLE ASPHALT AND THE PARKING SPACES. SO THAT'S WHAT IT TG OR IS IT THE OTHER WAY AROUND AT PICKLEBALL? WHICH ONE? PICKLEBALL IS ONE AND THE OTHER. MM-HMM. I MEAN THERE'S EVEN PERMEABLE ASPHALT AS WOULD BE THE ASPHALT. YEAH. 'CAUSE IT HAS THE, THE HEAVY TURNING MOVEMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. WHAT ABOUT PERMEABLE ASPHALT? I MEAN, ARE YOU HAVING TO RE THE WHOLE THING? ARE YOU PLANNING TO, YOU NEED A HIGH VACUUM, UM, TO COME IN AND PULL UP THE FINES FROM THAT SO IT DOESN'T GET CALLED BEING USED FREQUENTLY DOESN'T WORK. UM MM-HMM . BUT THOSE ARE YEAH, THOSE ARE OPTIONS. AND REMEMBER, A COMPONENT OF SUSTAINABILITY IS THAT ALL THE STORM WATER FROM THE ASPHALT IS GOING IN THOSE RETAINAGE AREAS. MM-HMM . THAT ARE VEGETATED. SO WE ARE PURPOSELY MAKING THIS TO REUSE THAT STORM WATER. SO IT DOESN'T A GOOD THING IT DOESN'T DISCHARGE OFFSITE GREAT. THAT'S A GOOD THING. AND THE ONE THING I FORGOT TO SAY EARLIER IS I WOULD'VE LOVED TO SEE THE SHADE STRUCTURE BEFORE THE MEETING, JUST AS WE EXPECT OUR DEVELOPERS TO GIVE US FULL PACKETS. RIGHT, RIGHT. I WOULD'VE APPRECIATED THIS ONE TOO. ABSOLUTELY. SO CAN, KATHY, CAN YOU GO OVER THE IDEA YOU HAVE SO THAT WHEN WE, IF WE DO A CONDITION OF APPROVAL, WE KNOW WHAT PARKING SPACES WE'RE LOSING, ARE WE LOSING ALL OF THEM THAT ARE SHADED ON THE SOUTH LOT AND THEN WE'RE MOVING THAT LOT LINE IN, OR NOT LOT LINE, BUT PARKING IN, WE'RE WE'RE REMOVING HOW MANY MIGHT SUGGEST 1, 2, 3 LOOKS. HOW MANY DID YOU COUNT DOWN THERE? 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. IT LOOKS EIGHT ON THAT ROW, BUT THEN ANOTHER FOUR. SO I HAVE 13. YEAH. 12, 12, 13. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. ABOUT 14. OKAY. LOOKS LIKE OH YEAH, THERE'S THAT HALF ONE RIGHT THERE. I, I JUST HAVE TO BEAR IN MIND WHAT WE'RE TAKING BACK TO COUNSEL EVENTUALLY. AND UM, I, I WOULD FEEL BETTER ABOUT THESE, THESE EIGHT HERE. UM, I CAN'T SEE WHERE YOUR MARKER IS. OH, I'M SORRY. THIS THING IS, OH, THERE WE GO. ALONG THE HIGHWAY. YEAH. JUST BECAUSE THE EXPENSE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT PUTTING INTO THIS PROPERTY IS PRETTY SIGNIFICANT. SO TAKING OUT THAT ENTIRE AREA DOWN HERE AND DOING EVERYTHING ELSE, I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN GET THAT APPROVED COST WISE. SEE, CAN GO BACK TO COST. YEAH. I DON'T KNOW. WHY DID YOU SAY THIS IS GOING TO COUNCIL ANDY? WHEN, WHY DID YOU SAY IT WAS GOING TO COUNCIL? IT'LL BE THE CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT. YEAH. CONTRACT. CONTRACT. THEY ACTUALLY BUILD IT. WE APPROVE THE CUP AMENDMENTS HERE. YEAH. SO IT'S NOT GOING TO APPROVE TO THE COUNCIL. NOT FOR THE CP. YEAH. THEY MIGHT NOT APPROVE THE PROJECT. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DOLLAR CENTS. YEAH. WE CAN DESIGN IT ALL DAY LONG, BUT ACTUALLY BUILDING IT WILL BE A WHOLE NOTHER THING. YEAH. I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHY I, I'M LEANING TOWARDS JUST NOT TOUCHING THAT SOUTH END TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY. RIGHT. YES. TAKING OUT THOSE NINE ON THAT ONE ROW ACHIEVES THE, UH, GOAL OF, UH, TAKING IT AWAY FROM THE HIGHWAY AND YES. KEEPING MORE OF THE, UH, LANDSCAPE BUFFER. RIGHT, RIGHT. THAT ACHIEVES WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO. JUST THOSE NINE. THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. YEAH. MM-HMM . IS IT COMING DOWN THIS WAY? YES. OKAY. BUT I DON'T THINK YOU FINISHED . WHATEVER I WANTED TO SAY HAS BEEN SAID. THAT'S FINE. OKAY. GO AHEAD. OKAY. WELL TO TAG ON TO CHARLOTTE'S VERY GOOD POINT. I, I MEAN, I DON'T, GOSH, I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO START. EVERYBODY'S SO TIRED. UM, THE BUS, WHAT CHARLOTTE WAS TALKING ABOUT, ABOUT HOW WE COME DOWN ON THE, ON THE SIDEWALK AND WE'VE GOT THE TRUNCATED DOMES, WHICH I THINK PER CODE OR STANDARD IS LIKE WHAT, 36 INCHES IS THE WIDTH OF ONE OF THOSE. SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IT'S, IT'S 24 INCHES IN WALKING IS THE MINIMUM DEPTH. RIGHT. SO WHAT I'M THINKING IS, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO ACCOMMODATE FOR PERHAPS THE WORST CASE SITUATION, BUT PEOPLE ARE GONNA KIND OF BE BARRELING DOWN ON THEIR BIKES AND THEN THEY'RE GONNA GET THAT LIKE, YOU KNOW, LIKE LAST SECOND WARNING BEFORE THEY'RE IN THE PATH OF TRAVEL. AND THEY MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE AWARENESS, THEY MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE HEADPHONES ON. I WAS WONDERING IF WE COULD ADD ADDITIONAL RUMBLE STRIPS, LIKE TO REALLY GIVE THEM A WARNING SPORADICALLY, LIKE SPACED OUT LIKE MAYBE 10 FEET AWAY. THERE'S ONE AND 10 FEET AWAY. THERE'S ONE TO KIND OF, AS THEY'RE COMING INTO THAT AREA, LIKE [03:55:01] RUMBLE, RUMBLE, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT BIKES OR BUSES GETTING RUMBLES BIKES. SO THOSE YOU HAVE REALLY TALKING ABOUT BIKES ON BO STRING OR 1 79. I'M TALKING 1 79. 1 79 IT CROSS. SO RIGHT THERE. SO CHARLOTTE'S CONCERNED ABOUT WHEN BIKES COME DOWN, SUDDENLY THEY'RE TURNING AND THEY'RE RIGHT. AND YOU KNOW, TECHNICALLY THEY DON'T REALLY SEE THOSE RUMBLE STRIPS UNTIL THEY SORT OF TO TURN THE CORNER. SO MY CONCERN IS, IS THAT REALLY IS A SAFETY ISSUE EVEN THOUGH IT MEETS STANDARD SPECS AND CODE. COULD WE ADD ADDITIONAL RUMBLE RUMBLE STRIPS ON THAT BEFORE THEY GET RIGHT TO THAT INTERSECTION POINT? DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? I'M GUESSING THE BIKES ARE GONNA STAY ON THE ROAD. THE BIKES, THE BIKE BICYCLISTS WHO ARE BRAVE ENOUGH TO RIDE 1 79 ARE ON VERY FAST, VERY EXPENSIVE ROAD BIKES, AND THEY'RE VERY COMPETENT AND THEY WOULD NOT RIDE, RIDE ON THE PATH. YOU DON'T THINK THEY'LL, I SHARED, I WILL PUT MONEYS PATH ON. THE ONLY PEOPLE ON THAT PATH ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ACCIDENTALLY END UP ON IT WHEN THEY TAKE, IT'S NOT TRUE ARABELLA BIKES FOR US, OUR EXPERIENCES WE HAVE, WE HAVE ELECTRIC BIKE TOURS ALL THE TIME ON THE SIDEWALK. YEAH. YEAH. I GUESS YOU HAVE THE TOURIST, BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT LIKE THE LOCAL BIKERS, I GUESS, IS WHAT NO, WE HAVE ALL THE TIME THERE ON THE SIDE, ON THE SIDEWALK. SO OUR, OUR STANDARD DESIGN, UM, ONCE WE GET TO A FURTHER LEVEL OF DESIGN ON THIS, I WOULD THINK WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT OUR S PATHS, TYPICALLY WHERE WE HAVE THESE CROSSINGS, WE USE EITHER A STAMPED CONCRETE MM-HMM . OR A PAVER. AND THAT'S, THAT'S ABOUT THAT FEEL AGAIN, AS YOU'RE GETTING INTO THAT PAVER OR THAT DIFFERENT MATERIAL, THAT ROUGHNESS IS A FEEL THAT, HEY, THERE'S SOMETHING DIFFERENT HERE. RIGHT? SO IT'S CALLING YOUR ATTENTION TO THAT AND TOTALLY AGREE, BUT THEY'RE GETTING THAT FEEL LIKE RIGHT AS THEY TURN AND THEY'RE IN IT. SO YEAH, I MEAN, I JUST SEE IT AS A POTENTIAL, YOU KNOW, ISSUE. UM, ONE, ONE THING WE COULD DO IS HAVE LIKE A SIGN, YOU KNOW, YOU NEED CROSSWALK AHEAD OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT FOR THE TRAIL USER. OKAY. I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA TRY AND KEEP GOING HERE. UM, IRRIGATION, WE TALKED ABOUT UPGRADING THE EXISTING IRRIGATION SYSTEM. IS THAT GOING TO BE A TEMPORARY JUST UNTIL PLANT ESTABLISHMENT, OR IS THAT GONNA BE A PERMANENT WATERING IRRIGATION SYSTEM? IT'D BE PERMANENT. PERMANENT WATERING, PERMANENT IRRIGATION SYSTEM. THAT'S WHAT WE, THAT'S A FIREWISE THING NOW. IT'S A FIREWISE AND IT, IT'S AGAIN TO KEEP THE TREES HEALTHY BECAUSE THE BIG KILLER IS THE BEETLE. RIGHT. OKAY. SO BY KEEPING 'EM WELL WATERED VERSUS WHAT'S AT THE CURRENT CONDITION. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT FIRES WISE IS ASKING NOW THAT WE START IRRIGATING THESE TREES SO THAT THEY'RE HEALTHY IN CASE OF A FIRE. WOW. OKAY. WELL THAT, THAT ALL SOUNDS GOOD. OKAY. UM, THAT RESTROOM BUILDING. UM, SO IF WE LOOK AT CREATING A MOD, I MEAN, WHEN, WHEN I SAW IT ORIGINALLY, I WAS LIKE, OH MY GOD. AND THEN WE TALK ABOUT HOW IT'S GONNA BE POTENTIALLY A MODEL MOVING FORWARD. SO I WOULD REALLY LIKE FOR US TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD ON THAT. UM, AND THIS IS KIND OF A LITTLE BIT IN ALIGNMENT WITH WHAT YOU SAID. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THIS NOT EXPECTATION, BUT WE REALLY LIKE WHEN PROJECTS COME TO US, THAT THEY MEET A LOT OF THE COMMUNITY PLAN AND THE CORE VALUES AND ALL THE THINGS THAT SEDONA FINDS IMPORTANT. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THE CITY PUTS UP A PROJECT AND THEN I FEEL LIKE WE'RE NOT PUTTING OUR MONEY WHERE OUR MOUTH IS AS MUCH AS WE POSSIBLY POTENTIALLY COULD BE. SO FIRST THINGS FIRST, SO ROB TOTALLY WITH YOU ON THE POTENTIAL, WHEN I LOOKED AT THIS PLAN, I WAS LIKE, WELL, THERE'S WHEEL STOPS, BUT I DON'T SEE, YOU KNOW, BOLLARDS OR YEAH. I, I THINK THAT THAT'S A POTENTIAL SAFETY ISSUE THERE. BUT LET'S TALK ABOUT THE BUILDING. UM, SO I MEAN, PUBLIC RESTROOMS CAN BE MADE REALLY, REALLY NICE AND REALLY, REALLY SUSTAINABLE. AND THEY SHOULD COMPLIMENT THEIR SURROUNDINGS. THEY SHOULD NOT BE AN EYESORE IN CONFLICT. YOU KNOW, THEY SHOULDN'T BE A CLASH WITH THE SURROUNDINGS. AND SO THINGS THAT I WAS THINKING ABOUT, WHICH ROB MENTIONED WAS, YOU KNOW, NOT ONLY NATURAL LIGHTING, BUT SMART LIGHTING. SO IF WE IMPLEMENTED A SHED ROOF AND WE HAD HIGH WINDOWS, RIGHT, WE WOULD BE BRINGING NATURAL LIGHTING IN AND POTENTIALLY SOME VENTILATION AS WELL. BUT ALSO WITHIN THE STRUCTURE, YOU KNOW, HOW ARE WE MODELING BY EXAMPLE? FOR EXAMPLE, ARE WE GOING TO HAVE LED MOTION LIGHTS SO THAT THE LIGHTS ONLY TURN ON WHEN PEOPLE ACTUALLY ENTER AND LEAVE LEAD LEAVE BECAUSE THE LED LIGHTS, YOU KNOW, REDUCE ENERGY EFFICIENCY BY ABOUT 75%. SO ARE WE GONNA BE INTRODUCING THAT KIND OF SMART TECHNOLOGY? ARE OUR WATER WATER FTS GOING TO BE METERED FOR ONLY A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME? ARE THEY GONNA BE TOUCHLESS? UM, YOU KNOW, LET'S SEE, WHAT ELSE DO I HAVE HERE? UM, I PUT GREEN ROOF, BUT I KNEW THAT, I KNOW THAT THAT WOULD BE LIKE, YOU KNOW, REALLY ASKING FOR A LOT. BUT SOLAR PANELS ON TOP THIN, SO SOLAR PANELS POTENTIALLY ON TOP. UM, I SEE THIS AS AN EDUCATION. I ALWAYS LOOK AT IT FROM AN EDUCATION LENS, LIKE IN THE SIGNAGE. HOW CAN WE MAKE THIS A MODEL THAT WE CAN THEN CARRY FORWARD THAT HAS AS MUCH SUSTAINABILITY IN IT AS POSSIBLE? [04:00:01] UM, SARAH, SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU, BUT THE NEW PARKS AT THE CLARK, THE NEW BATHROOMS AT THE CLARKDALE PARK. YEAH. THEY SHOW YOU WHERE YOUR DRAINAGE FROM THE WATER FOUNTAINS GO AND HOW THEY USE IT TO IRRIGATE. YEP. AND THE WHOLE THING IS LIKE, BUILT AROUND HERE. IT'S A STEM PARK. IT'S A STEM PARK, AND IT'S LIKE, LIKE THEY DO THAT. THEY HAVE DECENT BATHROOMS, BUT YOU SEE HOW IT ALL, ALL THE INTERACTING, HOW IT ALL WORKS, RIGHT? EXACTLY. AND WE SHOULD DO THAT. YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD DO THAT. WE SHOULD, YOU KNOW, LEAD BY EXAMPLE. SO WHAT ELSE DO I HAVE ON HERE? SOLAR PANELS, GREEN ROOF, UM, LVD, LOWER COMPOSTING TOILETS, , UM, GONNA HAPPEN. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN. YEAH. BUT USER EXPERIENCE, THINK OF THE USER EXPERIENCE. USER EXPERIENCE, YEAH. BUT, YOU KNOW, LO LOW FLOW, YOU KNOW, FACILITIES. UM, I, I MEAN, I HAVE NOTES ALL OVER MY PAGE, SO I'LL TRY AND JUST STOP THERE. BUT, UM, I'D REALLY LIKE FOR US TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD ON THE RESTROOMS AND MAKE IT SOMETHING WE'RE REALLY PROUD OF THAT MAKES SENSE, THAT'S EDUCATIONAL, THAT'S SUSTAINABLE, AND THAT WE CAN MOVE FORWARD. AND I'M HAPPY TO BE INVOLVED WITH SOME EXPERIENCE ON THAT. BUT, UM, LET'S SEE WHAT WE CAN DO. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT DELAYING IT FOR THE DESIGN, UM, PIECES THAT HAVEN'T BEEN ANSWERED? THE RAMADA AND THE BATHROOMS, UH, BATHROOMS. I MEAN, ONE, ONE THING I DO WANT TO THROW OUT ON THE RESTROOM IDEA AND SITUATIONS LIKE THIS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT OUR OTHER PARKING RIDES, FOR INSTANCE, UH, THIS IS ACTUALLY QUITE AN UPGRADE. . OH, THAT'S NOT SAYING MUCH, IS IT? SORRY TO SAY THAT. YEAH, NO, BUT THE, WHAT I REALLY WANTED TO SAY WAS THAT THE FIXTURES ARE TYPICALLY MADE TO BE DURABLE UHHUH, WHICH IS ACTUALLY SUSTAINABLE, BELIEVE IT OR NOT. YEAH. IF WE'RE IN THERE REPLACING A FIXTURE EVERY WEEK, THAT'S NOT SUSTAINABLE. SURE, SURE. SO THEY'RE TYPICALLY YOUR STAINLESS STEEL, DURABLE, THAT SORT OF TYPE OF FIXTURE. AND IT'S NON-POROUS TOO, SO IT'S GOOD FOR GERM PREVENTION AS WELL. YEAH. YEAH. SO THERE'S THAT. THE MAIN THING THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE COULD PROBABLY DO BETTER IS, YOU KNOW, OFFSETTING THE MASSING WITH, WITH SOME THINGS. I KNOW THAT PROBABLY OUR INTENT WAS WITH THE VEGETATION AND STUFF, AND BY THE WAY, THIS IS MOSTLY MY FAULT. I, I DON'T WANT STAFF TO FEEL LIKE I'M, I'M FLIPPING ON THEM FOR ONE, WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN WE MAINTAIN THESE IN THE FUTURE, THIS IS NOT SPEAKING AGAINST WHAT YOU SAID, THIS IS JUST ABOUT, THIS IS WHY WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE THEM CONSISTENT SO THAT WHEN OUR MAINTENANCE FOLKS OR WHOEVER ARE GOING TO THESE FACILITIES, THEY KNOW WHAT KIND OF FIXTURES THEY ARE, BECAUSE FROM ONE TO THE NEXT, THEY ARE THE SAME. BUT THE DESIGN, SPEAKING TO WHAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD DO BETTER ON. UM, COULD WE COME BACK WITH THAT? AND DOES THAT AFFECT YOUR ABILITY TO SUPPORT THE PROJECT OR NOT? I THINK, THINK THAT'S WHAT YOUR QUESTION IS. UM, I, I THINK WE COULD, UH, BUT I WOULD COMMIT TO PUTTING A HARD EFFORT INTO MAKING IT A NICER LOOKING, BETTER, APPEALING KIND OF A STRUCTURE. SO WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO COME BACK WITH A, THE DESIGN SPECS FOR THAT AND, AND THE RAMADA? YEAH, I MEAN, WE HAVE THE RAMADA, UNFORTUNATELY. I THINK CARRIE HAS SOMETHING IMPORTANT TO SAY. THIS IS THE OPEN MICROPHONE, , SORRY IF I'M NOT GONNA MAKE SENSE, BUT, UM, THIS WAS BROUGHT UP AT THE SITE VISIT TOO. AND ONE THING IT MAYBE ANDY CAN WEIGH IN ON AS WELL, IS THAT WE DID WORK PRETTY CLOSELY WITH THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT ON DESIGNING A BATHROOM FOR THE RANGER STATION PARK. RIGHT. WHICH INCORPORATED A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, ARCHITECTURAL INTEREST, SOME DIFFERENT MATERIALS, SOME RIVER ROCK, TO TRY TO REALLY DO SOMETHING THAT, UM, FIT WITH THE RANGER STATION. AND THE PRICE TAG OF THAT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT CITY COUNCIL WAS WILLING TO PAY. AND SO THAT'S WHY WE WENT TO THIS DESIGN, WHICH WE, I HAVE TALKED TO, UM, THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT ABOUT, AND MASSING DOESN'T APPLY IF YOUR BUILDING IS UNDER 2,500 SQUARE FEET. UM, AND SO WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO WHEN, YOU KNOW, JUST LOOKING AT THE BATHROOMS AS A WHOLE, IS KNOWING THAT THE DESIGN THAT WE HAD THAT DID MEET SOME OF THAT EXTRA STUFF THAT YOU'RE PROBABLY THINKING ABOUT WAS NOT AT A PRICE TAG THAT CITY COUNCIL WAS WILLING TO FUND. SO THAT IS JUST ONE THING TO, TO, AND SO WE PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE AN ANSWER TO THAT. UM, AND SO IF YOU WANTED TO, IF THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD WORK ON, IT WAS A VERY NICE STRUCTURE, , [04:05:01] BUT IT WAS $600,000. WELL, I'M SURE THERE'S SOMETHING BETWEEN WHAT'S ON THE DRAWINGS FOR THIS AND THE 600,000 ON THE RAIDER STATION CREATE THAT. SO I HAVE A SUGGESTION. I RECENTLY WENT ON VACATION TO MCCALL, WHERE ANNETTE IS FROM. MM-HMM . THEIR PUBLIC RESTROOMS ARE FABULOUS, LIKE REALLY FABULOUS AND INCORPORATE A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE TALKING WITH TONIGHT. SO IT MIGHT BE INTERESTING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH ANNETTE AND BE LIKE, WHAT DO THOSE PLANS LOOK LIKE? SO SHE, AND THERE'S, AND THERE'S ALSO CITIES IN THE VALLEY THAT USE SHIPPING CONTAINERS. MM-HMM . SO THERE'S A PRIVACY WALK. YOU WALK IN, IT'S A SHIPPING CONTAINER. IT'S ALL CORRUGATED STEEL. SINKS ARE IN ONE SIDE, TOILETS ON THE OTHER. UM, VENTILATION IS IN THERE. AND THEN, UH, SKYLIGHTS FOR LIGHTS. SO THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO LIGHT. IT'S ALL NATURAL LIGHT. AND OF COURSE, THE BATHROOM'S CLOSE AT DUSK, SO THEY DON'T NEED TO SEE, UH, THEY'RE A LITTLE BIT HOT IN THE SUMMER IN THE VALLEY. MM-HMM. BUT IT'S STILL, IT'S STILL DOABLE. I MEAN, YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE HANGING OUT IN THE BATHROOM ANYWAY, SO, UM, BUT I, I, I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A, THERE'S A PRICE ISSUE I UNDER I GET THAT. AND YOU'RE TRYING TO BE AS, AS, UM, PRUDENT. AS AS PRUDENT AS POSSIBLE. BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, COUNCIL AND, AND BEST OF THEIR ABILITY TO BE FRUGAL IN THEIR SPENDING, WE STILL ARE SENDING A MESSAGE THAT WE LIKE SQUARE BATHROOMS. AND, AND I GET IT. I UNDERSTAND THE BUDGET. I MEAN, WE'RE ASKING FOR A LOT OF THINGS. I CAN SEE SOME OF YOUR FACES GOING, YEAH, I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA GET THAT. WE, BUT, UM, BUT HOW, HOW CAN WE, HOW CAN WE DO IT? I DON'T KNOW. I JUST, IT JUST, IT JUST FRUSTRATES ME. I'M, I'M ON SARAH'S PAGE, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD BE UTILIZING SOLAR ALL, I MEAN, WE'RE DOING SOME GOOD SUSTAINABILITY THINGS. I LIKE THE CLARKDALE IDEA, YOU KNOW, EDUCATING ABOUT HOW THE BATHROOMS WORK AND WHERE DOES IT GO AND HOW DOES THIS GIVE BACK TO THE EARTH AND WHAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT PART IS, YOU KNOW, GRAY WATER AND WASTEWATER. UM, BUT IT SHOWS THAT WE'RE WALKING, YOU KNOW, WE'RE DOING IT RIGHT. AND I KNOW THAT Y'ALL, I MEAN, Y'ALL ARE WORKING REALLY HARD AND WE APPRECIATE THAT. BUT I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT THIS COMMISSION THAT Y'ALL HAVE NOTICED OVER THE PAST COUPLE YEARS IS THAT WE ARE REALLY TRYING TO PUT ACROSS THAT SUSTAINABILITY AND LOOKING FOR THOSE TWERKS. NOT SAYING IT HAS TO BE 500% LEAD CERTIFIED TOILETS, BATHROOMS, BUT, UM, WHAT ELSE CAN WE DO THAT'S LOW COST THAT FITS WITHIN THE CITY BUDGET? LIKE, IS IT ZERO WASTE? IS IT HAND DRYING AIR? SO WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE A BUNCH OF PAPER TOWELS AND, OR, UM, I THINK THOSE ARE ALSO PROBLEMATIC WHEN IT COMES TO PUBLIC RESTROOMS. AND I DON'T HAVE A FACILITY PERSON IN HERE RIGHT NOW. YEAH. BUT, UM, YEAH, I MEAN THERE, THERE'S ALMOST SOMETHING BAD WITH EVERYTHING. YOU LOOK AT , I MEAN, I, I JUST TRANSITIONED FROM BEING OVER SUSTAINABILITY TO NOT, AND I, I AM A BIG BELIEVER IN SUSTAINABILITY. I'M WITH YOU, RIGHT? YEAH. BUT THERE, THERE'S A SECOND SIDE TO ALMOST EVERYTHING YOU DO, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE COOL PAVEMENT IDEA. YEAH. I'VE ALWAYS HAD MY RESERVATIONS ABOUT THAT. UM, I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, NATURAL VEGETATION AND CANOPY AND SHADE, AND THAT IS A BETTER IDEA THAN PAINTING OUR STREETS WHITE, WHICH MM-HMM . GET RUN OVER BY BLACK TIRES AND END UP BLACK ANYWAY. RIGHT. SO, YOU KNOW, RIGHT. ALL OF THESE THINGS NEED TO HAVE SOME CONSIDERATION. UM, BUT WATER REFILL STATIONS, UM, LOOKING AT DOING DG DOWN HERE, THE RESTROOM DOING MASSING AND, AND, UH, DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, WE'LL, WE'LL DO WHAT WE CAN WITHIN REASON THAT, THAT MAKES SENSE. I BET THAT CLARKDALE DIDN'T STANDARDIZE, STANDARDIZE THEIR PUBLIC RESTROOMS TO ALL BE THAT MODEL. MM-HMM . I THINK IT MAKES TOTAL SENSE TO HAVE A RESTROOM LIKE THAT. THAT SOUNDS SUPER COOL. MM-HMM . BUT THERE'S NO WAY WE COULD BUILD 'EM ALL LIKE THAT. MM-HMM . DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? MM-HMM . SO IS THIS THE PLACE WHERE WE WANT TO HAVE THAT STANDARD, OR IS SAY, RANGER STATION PARK A BETTER PLACE FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? I MEAN, THIS IS A PARK AND RIDE FACILITY, RIGHT? WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU GET A LOT OF PEOPLE, WELL, THERE'S DIFFERENT TYPES OF PARKS TOO. YOU KNOW, THERE'S DESTINATION PARKS, WHICH IS A RESTAURANT, WHICH IS, UM, UH, RANGER STATION. PARK IS A DESTINATION PARK. THIS IS NOT A DESTINATION PARK. RIGHT. SO, BUT STILL WE'RE NOT INCORPORATING WHAT WE'RE PREACHING. THAT'S, I THINK IT'S, WE'RE COMING DOWN TO, YEAH, I KNOW THE TOILETS WERE TOO EXPENSIVE AT RANGE PARK, BUT THAT'S A DESTINATION YOU HAVE WHEN YOU'RE SPENDING ALL THAT MONEY ON PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT AND IMAGES AND YOU'RE, YOU'RE DOING HISTORICAL PRESERVATION, YOU ARE GONNA UPGRADE YOUR TOILETS. YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR RANGER PARK TOILETS, BUT WE'RE ASKING, YOU KNOW, FOR SOME LITTLE WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE, EVEN IF IT'S INCORPORATING SOLAR IN A SIGNAGE JUST TO TIE INTO OUR OWN PLANS. YEAH. NO, THE SIGNAGE IS SOMETHING I'VE ALREADY COMMITTED TO SAYING, HEY, THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. NO, I JUST MEAN LIKE [04:10:01] SOLAR, LIKE IF YOU LIT UP A SIGN OR SOMETHING THAT YOU USE SOLAR FOR, YOU KNOW, IT JUST, I JUST SOLAR LIGHTING. I WE'RE ON THE SAME SPACE THAT WE ALREADY DO AN ABUNDANCE ACROSS THIS CITY AND COMMUNITY, SO THAT THAT'S, THAT'S A GIVEN. IF WE'RE PUTTING IN LIGHTING, WE'RE LIKELY FIRST LOOKING AT SOLAR. RIGHT. THAT KIND OF IS OUR STANDARD. UM, SO WE TOTALLY COULD COMMIT TO THAT. IF WE COULD NOT HAVE TO COME BACK AND BE HERE UNTIL ALMOST 10 O'CLOCK, THAT WOULD BE SUPER AWESOME. CAN I NOT, YOU SAID WHAT YOU WANTED. I HAVE MY LAST, I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION, . I HAVE ONE MORE QUE JUST, AND THEN I'M DONE. ONE MORE QUESTION. THIS IS JUST, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A NITTY GRITTY DETAIL LIKE ROB, BUT, UM, AND I THINK I MENTIONED IT THE LAST TIME, BUT WHEN YOU, WHEN THAT, WHEN THEY COME INTO THAT BYPASS LANE THERE, SO LET'S SAY A DA PEOPLE PARK, RIGHT? THEY ROLL UP ON THE FLUSH CURB THERE. OH, RIGHT. HOW DO THEY THEN GET INTO THE BUS SHUTTLE? BECAUSE YOU'RE CALLING OUT A CONSTRUCTION NOTE TOO, WHICH INDICATES CURB ON THAT SIDE. SO HOW ARE THEY GETTING BACK INTO THE SHUTTLES? SO, SO THIS IS LIKE EVERY OTHER SPACE WHERE SOMEONE SAID EARLIER THEY PREFER TO WALK IN THE MIDDLE OF THE AISLE, RIGHT? . SO THE, UNFORTUNATELY THE WAY PARKING LOTS ARE LAID OUT, THERE'S AN ANTICIPATION THAT YOU'RE WALKING BACK TO THE AISLE, FINDING AN OPENING TO THE CURB AND THEN ENTERING THERE. RIGHT? RIGHT. BUT THE PEOPLE IN THE WHEELCHAIRS, RIGHT, THEY'LL ROLL UP THE STRIPING. THAT'S A FLUSHED CURB. THEY GO ACROSS HOW DO, HOW DO YOU, HOW DO YOU GET INTO THE, HOW DO WHEELCHAIRS GET ON THE BUSES? YEAH. YEAH. BECAUSE THAT'S A'S A CURB ON THAT SIDE. IT'S NOT A FLUSH CURB. SO THEY'RE NOT GOING FROM THE PARKING LOT FLUSH ACROSS TO FLUSH INTO THE SHUTTLE. THAT'S A CURB. SO THERE WOULD BE A RAMP. YEAH. YOU WANNA POINT IT OUT? SURE. OKAY. SO THERE'S A RAMP ON THAT SIDE. OKAY. AND ON THE, I'M SORRY, I KEEP THINKING YOU'RE TALKING ON SEE CONSTRUCTION NOTE NUMBER TWO, THAT'S A SIX INCH CURB ON THAT FACE. YEAH. THE BUS ACTUALLY SITS AND IT HAS, IT LOWERS A RAMP. YEAH, IT HAS A RAMP. OH, OKAY. THEY'RE A DA ACCESSIBLE VEHICLES. APOLOGIZE. OKAY, I GOT IT. MISUNDERSTOOD. A RAMP THAT LOWERS THAT THE WHEELCHAIR. THEN THEY CAN JUST GO RIGHT ON. THE VEHICLES ACCOMMODATE TWO WHEELCHAIRS. OKAY. ANSWERED. THANK YOU. SORRY, I MISUNDERSTAND. YEAH, CHARLOTTE, I'D JUST LIKE TO EXPAND ON WHAT ANDY WAS SAYING. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TIME. I'M GONNA BEAT THAT 24 47 TO DEATH AGAIN, BUT, UM, TO AFFORD FOR YOU TO REDESIGN SOMETHING AND BRING IT BACK TO US IN TIME FOR US TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT IT CUPS, DON'T WE? PARDON? I THINK WE DO CS. UM, YEAH, WE DO. THAT'S TRUE. YOU'RE RIGHT. YEAH. WELL, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? I HONESTLY BELIEVE WE'VE GIVEN YOU SO MANY IDEAS. WE ARE NOT GONNA NARROW THOSE DOWN TONIGHT. I TRUST THAT YOU'VE HEARD IT AND THAT YOU'LL DO WHAT YOU CAN. I WANT TO DO THIS FOR KATHY, AND SHE'S NOT GONNA BE ON THE COMMISSION ANYMORE, SO , I REALLY WANT TO DO HER A SOLID ABOUT A MURAL ON THE SIDE OF THE BATHROOM WITH HER FACE ON IT. . I DON'T THINK DA WANTS TO BE ON THE TOILET. THAT'S, WELL, THE, THE, THE OTHER DESIGN, UH, THAT WAS TOO EXPENSIVE ACTUALLY HAD RIVER ROCK, UM, FROM ABOUT, I DON'T KNOW, SOMEWHERE AROUND HALFWAY DOWN. THAT'S A QUICK WAY TO OFFSET TO YOUR POINT. YOU KNOW WHAT, WHAT WE'RE SHOWING RIGHT NOW IS A FULL BLOCK MM-HMM . FROM SQUARE TO SQUARE, RIGHT? MM-HMM . SO BREAKING THAT UP LIKE THAT I THINK WOULD BE MY FIRST THOUGHT. IF EVERYONE AGREES THAT, THAT WOULD BE A GREAT WAY TO BREAK UP THE MASSING OR, I THINK VENTILATION AND LIGHT IS A PRIORITY OVER MASSING FOR ME. MM-HMM. GIVING YOURSELF A, WHAT'S THE WORD? SHED ROOF. YEAH, SHED ROOF. SHED ROOF WITH LIGHT AND AIR. I LIKE, WE'VE ALL BEEN IN A NATIONAL PARK BATHROOM, RIGHT? CAN WE ADMIT THAT AIR IS SO IMPORTANT? , I THINK I'LL, I'LL LIVE FOR THAT OVER RIVER, RIVER ROCK ANY DAY. YEAH. I DON'T, I THINK THAT OTHER RESTROOM HAD THAT IN IT, DIDN'T IT? NO, THE VENTILATION. THE ONE AT RANGER STATION THAT WE HAD. I THOUGHT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE CAR BOX. YEAH, NO, I LIKE SARAH'S IDEA FOR THE SHARED ROOF. YEAH, ME TOO. SO I THINK THAT'S THE, I THINK THAT'S IT'S FUNCTIONAL IN PRETTINESS AND, AND, AND GOODNESS FOR THE USER. RIGHT? RIGHT. IT'S REFRESHING. MAYBE, UM, IF YOU COULD SHARE THE RAMADA DESIGN WITH, UM, THE ELECTED OFFICERS OF THE COMMISSION AND THE STAFF. WE ACTUALLY HAVE A SUITE RENDERING, WHICH I REALIZE WASN'T IN THIS RIGHT BEFORE WE WERE COMING HERE. YEAH. IF YOU GUYS WANNA BE HERE FOR ANOTHER FIVE MINUTES. NO. NO. OKAY. I DON'T THINK SO. NO. I'M TIRED. I FALLING ASLEEP. WE CAN TOTALLY SHARE THAT WITH YOU. SO IF YOU COULD DO SOME SHARING AND DEFINITELY DO THAT LOOP IN ROB. HE ACTUALLY FIXED ALL THE PROBLEMS IN HIS SKETCHES OVER HERE WHILE OKAY. WHILE HE FIXED IT ALL. HE FIXED THE ENTRY BETTER. IT'S FINE. LET'S, IT'S DONE. [04:15:02] ALRIGHTY. SO WE'VE, WE'VE TAKEN CARE OF THAT. WHAT ABOUT THE ELIMINATION OF SOME OF THE PARKING SPACES? CAN YOU LIVE WITH THAT ANDY? THE, THE ONES THAT WE TALKED ABOUT ALONG THE FRONTAGE? UM-HUH. IS LIKE EIGHT I I THINK, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THESE EIGHT RIGHT HERE? YEAH. WHERE I'VE GOT THE MOUSE. AND THEN YOU NEED TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO RETAIN THE LANDSCAPING ON THE SOUTH SIDE. YES. BIG TIME. YEAH. YEAH. AND IT COULD BE A COMBINATION OF KEEPING A COUPLE UP HERE WHERE THERE'S NO TREE ISSUE AND LOSING THESE WHERE THE TREES ARE THE BIGGEST ISSUE. SO THERE'S A COMBINATION OF THINGS, BUT I THINK WE UNDERSTAND. SAVE THE TREES. ADD PARKING AS SORRY, AS WE CAN. TALKING ABOUT PARKING LOT. YEAH. NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF A TREE THOUGH. THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. , CAN I ADD ONE THING? THIS IS MY FIRST TIME IN FRONT OF YOU ALL AND I REALLY APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY. UM, WHEN WE LOOK AT THIS FROM A SUSTAINABILITY STANDPOINT, I JUST WANNA ADD THAT TRANSIT IN ITSELF IS CONTRIBUTING AND SINCE THIS TRAIL HEAD SHUTTLE STARTED IN OPERATION, WE'VE ELIMINATED 290,000 VEHICLE TRIPS IN THE AREAS WHERE WE SERVE OUT OF THESE PARK AND RIDE LOTS. YEAH. AND ALSO WHEN YOU TIE IT INTO OUR CONNECT SERVICE, WHICH IS ALSO BRINGING PEOPLE IN WITHOUT THEIR CARS, THAT'S ALSO TYING INTO SOME OF OUR CLIMATE GOALS. YEAH. SO WE'RE A HUNDRED PERCENT THANK YOU. NO QUESTION. OKAY. SOMEONE WANNA MAKE A MOTION? I, MIKE, I CAN'T CONNECT TO THE INTERNET, SO I CAN'T NEITHER. THE INTERNET TURNS OFF AT EIGHT. IS THAT ? PRETTY SURE. ARE YOU HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM? OH, I HAVEN'T HAD INTERNET SINCE EIGHT, SINCE I HAVE FEELING THEY TURN IT OFF AT EIGHT, AMEND IT TO CAN I, CAN I LIST OUT THE CONDITION CHANGES THAT I HEARD? PERFECT. YEAH, YOU'VE GOT THEM. I TRIED TO WRITE SOMETHING DOWN. THANK YOU CARRIE. UM, THE ENTRANCE AND TURNAROUND AREA SHALL BE MODIFIED AS DESCRIBED IN THE PUBLIC HEARING, INCLUDING ADDING ADDITIONAL CURBING AND TRAFFIC CONTROL TO, FOR FURTHER FORCE A RIGHT HAND TURN AND MODIFYING THE TURNAROUND AREA TO DECOMPOSE GRANITE OR OTHER SURFACES DID DIFFERENTIATE THAT AREA FROM THE MAIN DRIVE AISLE. UM, THE SOUTHERN END OF THE PARKING LOT SHALL BE MODIFIED AS DESCRIBED IN THE PUBLIC HEARING, INCLUDING REDUCTION OF EIGHT PARKING SPACES TO RETAIN EXISTING TREES AND SURFACING USING DECOMPOSED GRANITE OR OTHER PERMEABLE SURFACE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SHALL REVIEW THE OPERATION OF THE PARKING LOT 24 MONTHS AFTER COMPLETION OF ALL WORK COVERED UNDER THE CUP. IF THE PARKING LOT HAS IMPACTS BEYOND THOSE ANTICIPATED APPROVAL, THE COMMISSION MAY ADD ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS TO MITIGATE THOSE IMPACTS AND SHARED USE PATH LEADING INTO THE CROSSING WITH THE SLIP LANE SHALL INCORPORATE SIGNAGE AND DIFFERENT TEXTURES TO ALERT USERS THAT THE CROSSING IS UPCOMING. THAT'S WHAT I HAVE. AND SOMETHING ABOUT BATHROOMS OR NO? UM, SO WE, THE BATHROOM WILL BE MODIFIED BASED ON THE COMMENTS OF THE COMMISSION. THE DESIGN OF THE RESTROOM SHALL BE MODIFIED BASED ON THE FEEDBACK FROM THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION. MM-HMM . IS THAT GOOD ENOUGH? AND YEAH. YEAH. I HAVE SPECIFIC NOTES AND IF YOU WANT IT, BUT IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE IN THE YEAH, BUT YOU'VE GOT THEM, YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. GOTCHA. YEAH. OKAY. YEAH, THAT'S WHY WE RECORD THE MEETING. YOU CAN GO BACK AND I'LL MAKE A MOVEMENT WITH NOTHING IN FRONT OF ME BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THE NUMBERS, LIKE THE PZ. OKAY. THANK GOT A LITTLE PAPER. UM, UM, CAN WE ALSO MAYBE, DO WE WANNA ADD ANYTHING ABOUT THE RESTAURANT SUBJECT TO APPROVAL OF THE CITY COUNCIL AS WELL? OR JUST WELL, THAT'S A CONSTRUCTION, THAT'S WHEN THEY, THEY COMMIT FUND. YEAH, WE DON'T NEED TO DO THAT THROUGH THE RINGER, I PROMISE. OKAY. WHAT'S THAT? THEY WILL HOLD ME TO IT, I PROMISE YOU. . UM, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF CASE NUMBER PZ 2 4 0 0 0 9 CP AMENDMENT SONOMA SHUTTLE BASED ON THE COMPLIANCE WITH ALL ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS OF LDC SECTION 8.3 AND 8.4, AND THE SATISFACTION OF THE CONDITIONAL USE FINDINGS AND APPLICABLE LAND DEVELOPMENT REQUIREMENTS AS OUTLINED IN THE STAFF REPORT. WHICH STAFF REPORT IS HEREBY ADOPTED AS THE FINDINGS OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AND THE ATTACHED CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL, INCLUDING THE LISTED ADDITIONS BY CARRIE. YEAH. COOL. I SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? HOUSE IS SEVEN ZIP. THANK YOU. THANK YOU STAFF. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. WE WE'RE NOT DONE YET, ARE WE? WHAT'S [04:20:01] THAT? WE'RE NOT ADJOURNED YET. UM, CAN WE FINISH THE MEETING? OH. OH, WAIT A MINUTE. SORRY. WE YET DON'T LEAVE. I THINK I REALLY SCREWED UP ON MY VERY LAST MEETING. THAT'S THE ONLY TIME I DID. WE'LL, LET US, WE'RE NOT DONE. YEAH. [6. FUTURE MEETING DATES AND AGENDA ITEMS] UM, FUTURE MEETING DATES NUMBER SIX. UH, AND AGENDA ITEMS. SORRY, CARRIE. UM, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ON NOVEMBER 4TH. UM, AND THE, AS OF RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING FOR THE 18TH. AND THE PROS CHANGE TO ONLY GO TO ONE MEETING A MONTH IS GOING ON NOVEMBER 12TH TO COUNSEL. SO, UM, YOUR NEXT POTENTIAL MEETING WOULD BE THE FIRST MEETING OF DECEMBER. AND I WILL SEND OUT UPDATES ONCE WE GET CLOSER. AND I JUST ONE MORE TIME WANNA SAY THANK YOU, KATHY FOR THE LEADERSHIP AND EVERYTHING AND WELCOME CHARLOTTE. YEAH. TO THE HOT SEAT. YEP. YEAH. NOT TILL DECEMBER. . AND THEN PROCESS WISE, DO WE, IS IT SAME AS COUNCIL? DO WE VOTE FOR VICE THE NEXT MEETING? IS THAT THE SAME THING? YES. SO WE JUST DID WHAT THEY JUST DID. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WE DO WHAT THEY DID. SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN. AND IT'S, AND WE AGENDIZE IT AND ALL THAT? YEAH. OH, OKAY. OKIE DOKIE. MAYBE SEE IN DECEMBER. OH. SO YEAH, YOUR NEXT MEETING WILL HAVE ELECTIONS ON THEM, BUT WE WON'T HAVE A MEETING JUST FOR THAT. RIGHT. OKAY. YEAH. AND IN JANUARY YOU WILL BE ABLE TO VOTE FOR CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR, SO IF WE MEET IN DECEMBER, WE'LL VOTE FOR A VICE CHAIR. AND THEN IN JANUARY WE WOULD DO IT AGAIN. DO IT AGAIN. IF WE DON'T HAVE A MEETING IN DECEMBER, WE'LL JUST DO IT IN JANUARY. MAKES SENSE? YEAH. THANK YOU KATHY FOR EVERYTHING. THANK YOU ALL FOR THE CARD AND THE CHOCOLATE GAVEL AND STAFF. THANK YOU FOR THE BEAUTIFUL SUCCULENT AND THE UM, GIFT CERTIFICATE TO LAYLA'S MY FAVORITE BAKERY. YEAH. APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. GOOD NIGHT EVERYBODY. WHAT I WANTED TO GO. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.