[00:00:04]
[ 1. CALL TO ORDER/PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE/MOMENT OF SILENCE ]
OKAY, WE'RE GONNA GET STARTED.WELCOME TO THE CITY OF SEDONA COUNCIL MEETING.
I WOULD LIKE TO OFFICIALLY CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER AT 4:30 PM I'M GONNA ASK EVERYONE TO STAND AND DO THE PLEDGE.
IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, I PLEDGE PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS.
ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE.
WAS IT LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL? AND NOW A MOMENT OF SILENCE.
WOULD EVERYONE PLEASE SILENCE YOUR CELL PHONES IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE SO.
MADAM CLERK, CAN YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLE MAYOR PLU.
[Additional Item]
HAVE THE GREAT PLEASURE OF ASKING NANCY LATTANZI TO INTRODUCE OUR TWO FEATURED ARTISTS, DAWN KENNEL AND LISA ADLER, WHO CREATED OUR BELOVED ROADRUNNER.THANK YOU AND GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR AND VICE MAYOR AND COUNSELORS.
SO, YES, I INVITED DON CANAL AND LISA ADLER.
'CAUSE THIS IS A GREAT PLACE TO VISIT TO COME TO BACK TO SEDONA TO MEET WITH COMMUNITY.
AND SO HERE THEY ARE FOR THIS MOMENT OF ART.
UM, THEY HAVE BEEN COLLABORATING ON ART PROJECTS NEARLY 30 YEARS.
DKLA DESIGN IS BASED IN SANTA FE, NEW MEXICO.
AND THE MISSION IS TO ACTIVATE PUBLIC SPACE WHILE BRINGING NATURE INTO HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS.
THEY USE RECYCLED MATERIALS, WHICH ADD ANOTHER LAYER TO THE CONVERSATION.
DON AND LISA MET AS GRADUATE STUDENTS AT RUTGERS UNIVERSITY, WHICH IS IN NEW JERSEY, AND BEGAN THEIR LIFELONG PARTNERSHIP.
THEY BUILT A BELIEF, THEY SHARE A BELIEF IN THE POWER OF ART TO TRANSFORM SPACE AND TO CONNECT PEOPLE THROUGH COMPELLING IMAGERY THAT IS ACCESSIBLE TO A WIDE AUDIENCE.
THEY MOVED TO SANTA FE IN 2000 TO RAISE A FAMILY CLOSE TO WIDE OPEN SPACES AND LIVE IN A CITY WITH A THRIVING ARTS COMMUNITY.
DON AND LISA CO-TAUGHT CLASSES ON THE INTERSECTION OF ART AND COMMUNITY AT THE COLLEGE OF SANTA FE, ALONG WITH A CREW OF DEDICATED ARTISTS.
TOGETHER, THEY HAVE CREATED NUMEROUS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE ART INSTALLATIONS THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA.
THEY JUST INSTALLED, I THINK I SENT OUT AN EMAIL, UM, AN 8,000 POUND MOOSE THAT'S 23 FEET HIGH AND TRANSPORTED.
IT NOT ONLY CREATED IT TO PARK CITY, UTAH TO A ROUNDABOUT FROM SANTA FE.
UH, LITERALLY, UM, THE PUBLIC IS INVITED TO MEET THE ARTIST, WHICH IS THE FIRST EXTENDED MO YOU KNOW, MOMENT OF ART, MOMENT OF ART 0.2 THAT WE 2.0.
WE SAID, UM, THIS TOMORROW, FOUR TO SIX AT THE LIBRARY.
AND THERE, YOU'LL, YOU CAN LEARN A LOT MORE ABOUT THEM, UM, THEIR WORK.
THEY'LL DO A PRESENTATION AND THERE'LL BE A Q AND A AND THE SOCIAL HOUR AND TIME TO CONNECT WITH THEM.
SO PLEASE WELCOME DON CANAL AND LISA ADLER.
JUST SO YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A COUNCIL MEETING TOMORROW, SO WE WILL NOT BE THERE MORE THAN LIKELY.
UH, SO DON'T BE OFFENDED
WELL, IT'S A THRILL TO BE BACK IN SEDONA.
WE WANT TO EXTEND OUR HEARTFELT THANK YOU, UH, FOR YOUR SUPPORT AND TRUST IN US TO CREATE THIS SCULPTURE.
WE DO NOT TAKE IT FOR GRANTED.
UH, IT'S A, IT'S A, A, A REAL HONOR TO TO BE ENTRUSTED WITH PUBLIC SPACE LIKE THAT.
UH, NANCY HAS BEEN A GREAT COMMUNICATOR TO US.
IT SOUNDS LIKE THE SCULPTURE HAS REALLY FOUND A HOME AND AN AUDIENCE HERE IN SEDONA.
AND FOR US AS ARTISTS, THAT JUST MEANS THE WORLD.
IT'S A THRILL FOR US TO BE BACK AND, AND WE CAN'T WAIT TO, UH, SHARE MORE OF OUR WORK.
SO FIRST WE'RE JUST GONNA SHOW A SHORT VIDEO.
THIS IS THE VIDEO THEY PRESENTED, UM, WHEN THEY SUBMITTED THE PIECE AND ALL THE ARTISTS SUBMITTED A VIDEO.
AND THEN THEY'LL TALK A LITTLE MORE.
[00:05:01]
I'M LISA ADLER.ROADRUNNERS SMASH THEIR PREY INTO ROCKS ON THE GROUND.
THE COYOTE ROADRUNNERS EMBODY THE FIERCE BEAUTY OF THE DESERT.
THIS ROADRUNNER IS MADE FROM STEEL AND GALVANIZED SHEET METAL.
IT'S 14 FEET TALL, NINE FEET WIDE, AND FIVE FEET DEEP.
THIS IS HOW IT APPEARS NEXT TO A SIX FOOT HUMAN.
WE BEGIN WITH A STRUCTURAL STEEL ARMATURE THAT INCLUDES SCHEDULE 40 TUBING IN THE LEGS.
THE LEGS ARE ALSO COVERED IN FORGED AND WELDED PLATE STEEL THAT GIVE THEM THIS TAPERED APPEARANCE.
THERE'S A STRUCTURAL STEEL ARMATURE INSIDE THAT HELPS DEFINE THE BODY.
THIS IS A SAMPLE OF THE FEATHERED SURFACE USING A TECHNIQUE THAT WE HAVE DEVELOPED OVER THE YEARS AND USED ON A NUMBER OF LARGE SCALE PIECES.
WE PLASMA CUT EIGHTH INCH STEEL PLATE INTO THESE FRAMES, AND THEN WE BACK THAT WITH A HEAVY 20 GAUGE GALVANIZED STEEL.
WE CAPTURE THAT GALVANIZED STEEL ON THE BACK OF THOSE FRAMES WITH MORE ONE EIGHTH INCH STEEL.
ALL OF THIS MATERIAL IS CONTINUOUSLY WELDED, CREATING AN EXTREMELY STRONG SURFACE.
THIS TECHNIQUE IS VERY FLUID AND ALLOWS US TO RENDER THESE ANIMALS WITH A HIGH DEGREE OF GESTURE AND EXPRESSION.
THIS SCULPTURE WILL SUPPORT CUSTOM MADE, HAND-BLOWN GLASS EYES.
THESE EYES ARE ONE MORE ELEMENT THAT HELP BRING OUR SCULPTURES TO LIFE.
THE REASON WHY WE MAKE PUBLIC ART IS TO HELP THE WORLD BE A BETTER PLACE.
WE USE SCALE TO BRING THE AUDIENCE OUT OF THEIR DAILY LIVES AND INVITE THE VIEWER TO CONNECT WITH NATURE VIA ART.
ROADRUNNERS ARE A FORCE OF NATURE.
WHEN WE TAKE A SMALL BUT HEROIC CREATURE AND TURN IT INTO A MONUMENTAL SCULPTURE, WE ARE TRYING TO BRING THAT CREATURE INTO HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS.
ANIMALS HAVE SUPERPOWERS THAT WE ADMIRE, BUT IT'S MORE THAN JUST THAT HUMANS ARE PART OF NATURE AND WE FEEL A CONNECTION TO THESE CREATURES.
WE, YOU KNOW, MAKE OUR WORK TO PROVIDE THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO FEEL CONNECTED TO THE NATURAL WORLD.
THE SCULPTURE DEPICTS A NATIVE BIRD IN A NATURALISTIC SETTING, CREATING A THEATRICAL MOMENT WITH THE DRAMATIC SEDONA LANDSCAPE AS A BACKDROP, THE PALETTE OF THE ARTWORK REFLECTS THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENT.
THE SCENARIO CREATES A POSTCARD LIKE IMAGE OF A POPULAR SPECIES AT HOME IN THE ENVIRONMENT.
ALSO, I, YOU KNOW, I WANTED TO KEEP THIS TO 10 MINUTES, BUT IF YOU HAVE TIME, PLEASE GOOGLE SHELTER, DON CANAL AND LISA ADLER'S WORK.
UM, ABOUT, AND I KNOW WE'RE ALL ANIMAL LOVERS IN HERE, SO ABOUT A DOG AND, AND A LIFE OF AN OLD DOG, UH, AND SHELTERS.
SO, UM, ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO SHARE? LISA, YOU WANNA SAY ANYTHING? UM, THERE'S YOUR MICROPHONE.
WELL, I AM JUST REITERATING WHAT DAWN SAID ABOUT BEING BACK IN SEDONA.
UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S A BEAUTIFUL PLACE.
A LOT OF ARTISTS AND ARTWORKS AND, UM, WE'VE BEEN CAMPING THIS WEEK AND, UM, HAD A GREAT TIME BIKING AND HIKING AND BEING IN NATURE.
SO THANKS FOR SHARING YOUR BEAUTIFUL CITY WITH US.
YEAH, AND I'LL JUST ADD THAT IT'S GREAT TO BE IN A CITY THAT DISPLAYS SUCH A CONSISTENT COMMITMENT FOR THE ARTS.
I REALLY, AS AN ARTIST, OBVIOUSLY I'M A BIG BELIEVER IN IT, BUT, UH, I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES SEDONA SPECIAL IS JUST TO DRIVE THROUGH TOWN AND SEE HOW LIVELY THIS PLACE IS WITH ART.
SO WE DID BRING A COUPLE OF OTHER ROADRUNNER SCULPTURES AND, AND I WILL SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THESE CREATURES ARE VERY INSPIRING.
NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF THEIR KIND OF HEROIC POWERS, BUT ALSO THEY JUST, YOU KNOW, CREATE SO MANY BEAUTIFUL FORMS, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY'RE SO EX EXPRESSIVE AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SO ALIVE.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE LOOK AT A LOT OF PHOTOGRAPHS OF ROADRUNNERS AND THEY ALWAYS LOOK LIKE THEY'RE JUST, YOU KNOW, ABOUT TO LEAP OFF THE PAGE.
AND SO THAT'S, UH, SOMETHING WE HAVE A LOT OF FUN WITH.
AND I HOPE A LOT OF YOU'LL JOIN US TOMORROW
[00:10:01]
'CAUSE IT'LL BE REALLY SPECIAL TODAY.THERE'S A, A HUGE BODY OF WORK THEY'VE DONE AND THEY'LL SHARE THAT TOMORROW NIGHT WHEN THEY HAVE MORE TIME.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING.
[ 3. CONSENT ITEMS - APPROVE ]
CONSENT ITEMS. IS THERE ANYONE FROM COUNCIL STAFF OR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO WISH TO PULL AN ITEM OFF THE CONSENT AGENDA? OKAY, IF NOT, I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION.MAYOR, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEMS THREE A THROUGH THREE F SECOND.
OPPOSED? OKAY, WE'RE UNANIMOUS.
WHERE ARE YOU JOE? I'M LOOKING OVER THERE THE, OKAY.
UM, DO ANY COUNSELORS OR THE CITY MANAGER? WE'RE ON, WE HAVE NO APPOINTMENTS, SO WE'RE ON NUMBER FIVE.
[5. SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY MAYOR/COUNCILORS/CITY MANAGER & COUNCIL ASSIGNMENTS ]
SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS.ANYONE HAVE ANY EVENT THEY WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT? YES, MELISSA.
SO, UM, I HAVE QUITE A FEW ACTUALLY.
SO FIRST OF ALL, THE VERDE VALLEY CAREGIVERS COALITION.
WINTER MAGIC GALA IS ON THE 20TH OF NOVEMBER FROM FIVE TO NINE AT ENCHANTMENT BALLROOM.
THIS IS THEIR BIG FUNDRAISER FOR THE YEAR.
UM, SO HAVING ATTENDANCE IS GREAT.
THEY ALSO HAVE AUCTIONS GOING ON.
YOU CAN GET YOUR TICKETS AND THE SNEAK PEEKS AT THE SILENT AND THE LIVE AUCTION ITEMS AT VV VERDE VALLEY CAREGIVERS WARD.ORG.
SO GO UP THERE AND, AND COME AND JOIN THE FUND.
IT'S USUALLY A VERY WELL DONE, VERY, UM, FOR THOSE OF US WHO HAVE A LOT OF LIKE LONDON CLOTHES AND NOWHERE TO WEAR THEM IN SEDONA, IT'S THE ONE TIME A YEAR I GET TO PULL 'EM ALL OUT OF THE CLOSET.
SO, UM, I REALLY ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO COME AND, AND JOIN IN THE FUND THERE.
UM, ALSO, I KNOW WE'VE ALL SEEN THE TOYS FOR TALK BOXES AROUND TOWN.
UM, I'M NOT SURE HOW MANY OF YOU ARE AWARE THAT WE HAVE QUITE A FEW SENIORS IN TOWN WHO RECEIVE NO GIFTS DURING THE HOLIDAY SEASON.
UM, AND SO THE SEDONA COMMUNITY FOOD BANK THIS YEAR IS PREPARING FUN, BEAUTIFUL, AND PRACTICAL SENIOR GIFT BAGS FOR SENIOR CLIENTS.
FOR A NUMBER OF FOLKS, THIS IS THE ONLY GIFT THEY WILL RECEIVE FOR THE HOLIDAYS.
THESE LARGE, MUCH APPRECIATED GIFTS ARE MADE POSSIBLE BY ALL OF US WHO DONATE ITEMS. THESE ARE SOME OF THE ITEMS THAT WHICH ARE NEEDED IN MULTIPLES.
THINGS LIKE LOTION, LIQUID BODY SOAP, LIP BALM, EMORY BOARDS, CROSSWORD PUZZLES, WORD SEARCH PUZZLES, HARD CANDY SOCKS, LAP BLANKETS.
THESE AREN'T ALL JUST SILLY GIFTS.
AND THEY'D ALSO LIKE FOR YOU TO INCLUDE SOME GIFT BAGS THAT ARE REUSABLE THAT THEY COULD USE THEN FOR SHOPPING OR OTHER, UM, ITEMS THAT THEY MIGHT NEED THEM FOR.
THE LIST IS UPDATED AS TIME GOES ON.
EVERY DONATION WILL MAKE SOMEBODY'S HOLIDAY.
DONATIONS SHOULD BE DELIVERED TO THE FOOD BANK AT 30 INSPIRATIONAL DRIVE MONDAY THROUGH THURSDAY, 7:30 AM TO 12:00 PM QUESTIONS MAY BE ADDRESSED TO KATHLEEN AT 9 2 8 2 0 4 2 8 0 8.
UM, AND MY LAST ONE IS ABOUT SATURDAY.
SO SATURDAY IS THE BIG GET LOUD EVENT OVER AT THE COMMUNITY LIBRARY.
SEDONA, IT IS A LARGE FAMILY-ORIENTED, THERE'LL BE FOOD TRUCKS, THERE'S GONNA HAVE COTTON CANDY AND POPCORN.
THEY HAVE A BUNGEE JUMPING, UM, RIG I GUESS YOU WOULD CALL IT.
UM, SO GOOD ON YOU IF YOU DO THAT.
UH, AND THERE'S LIKE LOTS OF FUN AND ENTERTAINMENT.
IT'S FROM TWO TO FOUR, UM, THIS SATURDAY ON THE 15TH.
AND THEY ALSO HAVE A SILENT AUCTION THAT IS GOING ON AND THEY'LL HAVE A LIVE AUCTION AS WELL.
YOU WANNA GO TO COMMUNITY LIBRARY, SEDONA, ALL ONE WORD.ORG/AUCTION.
SO COME OUT AND SUPPORT YOUR FAVORITE ORGANIZATIONS HERE IN TOWN AND HELP SOME, UH, SOME OF OUR OWN FOLKS THIS NOVEMBER.
JUST, UH, UPDATING ON THE, UH, BOARD DUTIES THAT I'M ON CP WAC, WE APPROVE MAYOR, UH, PAGE MAYOR STEVE KIDMAN TO A BOARD SEAT.
SO WE, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT CTAC IS FOR THE AUDIENCE? SURE.
THAT'S THE COCONINO PLATEAU PLATEAU WATER ADVISORY COUNCIL AND WATER PARTNERSHIP.
SO WE'VE BEEN, UH, TRYING TO, UH, BROADEN OUR BOARD, UH, IN, IN THAT, UH, ORGANIZATION.
AND STEVE KIDMAN, THE, THE MAYOR OF PAGE HAS RECENTLY JOINED US, SO THAT WAS REALLY GOOD.
AND THEN IN NAMA, THE NORTHERN ARIZONA MUNICIPAL WATER USERS ASSOCIATION.
UH, WE ARE REVIEWING OUR BROAD, OUR BYLAWS TO BOTH BROADEN OUR GEOGRAPHY AND OUR MEMBERSHIP CRITERIA ON THAT BOARD AS WELL.
SO THOSE ARE TWO, UH, VERY INTERESTING ACTIVITIES.
I JUST WANNA MENTION TOYS FOR TOTS IS ALSO COLLECTING
[00:15:01]
TOYS.AND I ASKED THEM AT THE EVENT YESTERDAY AT THE MUSEUM FOR VETERANS DAY, WHAT THEY WERE SPECIFICALLY LOOKING FOR.
AND I THINK THIS IS THE SAME AS LAST YEAR.
OLDER KIDS, ITEMS LIKE 14 TO 16, THEY HAVE A LOT FOR THE YOUNGER KIDS.
SO IF ANYBODY'S PLANNING TO DONATE, PLEASE LOOK AT THE, AT THAT AGE GROUP.
I ALSO HAD GOTTEN AN EMAIL FROM OUR PARKS AND RECS DIRECTOR ABOUT, UM, SOME EXCITING THINGS THAT THEY ARE DOING AND THEY'RE DOING NOW A PRESCHOOL SPORTS PROGRAM AND THEY HAVE A NEW ATHLETICS AND AQUATICS SUPERVISOR.
AND IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS WHEN THEY TRIED IT, THEY HAD FOUR TO SEVEN PRESCHOOLERS, AGES TWO TO FOUR, AND IT WAS A SMALL GROUP TODAY, THEY STRUCTURED IT A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY, GOT THE WORD OUT THERE, AND WE HAD 49 PRESCHOOLERS SHOW UP.
THEY'VE GOTTEN VERY POSITIVE FEEDBACK FROM THE PARENTS WHO LIKE THIS FOR THE PRESCHOOLERS.
AND, UH, A FEW OF THEM TOLD US THE PARKS AND REC DEPARTMENT, THAT THERE'S A TON OF PRESCHOOL AGE KIDS NOW IN SEDONA, AND THEY'VE MOVED HERE DURING THE COVID YEARS.
THE REMOTE WORKERS, THEY STAYED AND HAD KIDS.
SO, UH, I THINK THIS, THAT THE SUPERINTENDENT TOLD US THAT THE, THE YOUNGER GRADES HAVE MORE KIDS IN THEM THAN THE HIGHER GRADES.
AND SO WE'RE BUILDING UP OUR BASE OF KIDS, WHICH IS REALLY EXCITING NEWS.
SO GIVE THERE'S HOPE FOR FAMILIES.
THERE'S HOPE HERE FOR ALL RIGHT, ITEM
[ 6. PUBLIC FORUM ]
SIX, I HAVE TWO CARDS FOR OUR PUBLIC FORUM.UH, FIRST ALICIA HANSEN, FOLLOWED BY EVAN HERZENBERG.
SO ALICIA IS A MEMBER OF OUR TOURISM ADVISORY BOARD.
YOUR NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE, PLEASE.
AND I'M A RESIDENT OF YAVAPAI COUNTY.
UH, GOOD EVENING ACTING MAYOR HOLLY AND COUNCIL MEMBERS.
MOST OF YOU KNOW THAT WE OWN AND OPERATE NINE BUSINESSES IN THE SEDONA CITY LIMITS.
AND I HAVE THE HONOR OF SERVING ON THE CITY'S TOURISM ADVISORY BOARD, FONDLY KNOWN AS TAB FIRST, I WANNA THANK YOU FOR YOUR RECENT UNANIMOUS APPROVAL OF THE WINNER CAMPAIGN AND THE PILOT PROJECT TO ATTRACT A NEW AUDIENCE.
AS YOU BEGIN ASSIGNING FUTURE BUDGET PRIORITIES, I'D LIKE TO STRONGLY ADVOCATE FOR A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN THE CITY'S INVESTMENT IN STRATEGIC TOURISM MARKETING, SPECIFICALLY ADVERTISING DESIGN TO ATTRACT A SOCIALLY RESPONSIBLE HIGHER VALUE VISITOR WHO SUPPORTS SEDONAS ECONOMY WHILE RESPECTING OUR ENVIRONMENT, OUR CULTURE, AND OUR COMMUNITY.
OUR CURRENT MARKETING SPEND IS SIMPLY NOT SUFFICIENT TO COMPETE WITH DESTINATIONS SUCH AS SCOTTSDALE, SANTA FE, PARK CITY, AND JACKSON HOLE, WHERE TOTAL TOURISM BUDGETS RANGE FROM ROUGHLY FOUR TO $15 MILLION.
AND NEARLY HALF OF THAT GOES SPECIFICALLY TO DESTINATION MARKETING AND PAID MEDIA.
THAT'S A FAR CRY FROM SEDONAS, $2 MILLION BUDGET AND $500,000 AD SPEND.
THESE CITIES ARE ACTIVELY AND EFFECTIVELY PURSUING THE KIND OF DISCERNING TRAVELERS THAT WE SEEK.
VISITORS WHO STAY LONGER, SPEND MORE PER TRIP, AND SUPPORT BUSINESSES THAT ALIGN WITH THE CITY'S VALUES.
BY INVESTING SUBSTANTIALLY MORE IN TARGETED ADVERTISING, SEDONA CAN ACHIEVE THE SAME OR GREATER ECONOMIC IMPACT WITH FEWER TOTAL VISITORS, PROTECTING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE AND PRESERVING THE NATURAL BEAUTY THAT SUSTAINS OUR ECONOMY.
THIS IS ABOUT QUALITY OVER QUANTITY, SUSTAINABILITY OVER VOLUME AND SMART ECONOMICS OVER SHORT TERM GAIN.
I ALSO WANNA ENCOURAGE COUNCIL TO REMAIN OPEN TO THE THOUGHTFUL IDEAS AND CAMPAIGNS BEING DEVELOPED BY LAUREN, ANDREW, AND THE CITY'S TOURISM TEAM.
FROM MY PERSPECTIVE AS A BUSINESS OWNER AND AS A MEMBER OF TAB, I DEEPLY VALUE THEIR STRATEGIC APPROACH AND THE CARE THAT THEY'RE TAKING TO EVALUATE WHO WE'RE REACHING, WHAT IMPACT THOSE VISITORS HAVE ON OUR COMMUNITY, AND HOW TO STRENGTHEN SEDONAS LONG-TERM ECONOMIC HEALTH.
FINALLY, AS WE CONSIDER HOW SEDONAS TOURISM DOLLARS ARE REINVESTED, I HOPE WE CAN ALSO PRIORITIZE AFFORDABLE HOUSING SOLUTIONS FOR THE PEOPLE WHO SUSTAIN OUR CITY, OUR NURSES, TEACHERS, FIRST RESPONDERS, AND THOSE WORKING IN THE TOURISM AND HOSPITALITY INDUSTRIES.
THERE'S A CRITICAL SHORTAGE OF ATTAINABLE HOUSING FOR THESE INDIVIDUALS AND THEIR FAMILIES.
THEY'RE THE BACKBONE OF OUR ECONOMY AND THE PEOPLE THAT WE RELY ON TO KEEP OUR ECON
[00:20:01]
OUR COMMUNITY SAFE, HEALTHY, AND THRIVING.SEDONAS FUTURE DEPENDS ON INTENTIONAL VALUES, ALIGNED GROWTH, GROWTH THAT PROTECTS OUR ENVIRONMENT, SUSTAINS OUR ECONOMY, AND SUPPORTS THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THIS CITY WORK EACH AND EVERY DAY.
LET'S ENSURE OUR BUDGET REFLECTS THAT BY EQUIPPING OUR TOURISM AND HOUSING INITIATIVES WITH THE RESOURCES THEY NEED TO DO IT RIGHT.
I'M ALSO A LOCAL BUSINESS OWNER AND A BOARD MEMBER OF THIS DONOR CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.
AND I STAND BEFORE YOU BECAUSE I CARE DEEPLY ABOUT OUR LONG-TERM ECONOMIC HEALTH IN SEDONA.
I WANNA HIGHLIGHT THE REALITY THAT AFFECTS EVERY SHOP, EVERY HOTEL, EVERY GUIDE, EVERY FAMILY.
IT DEPENDS ON OUR VISITOR ECONOMY.
OUR MARKETING DOLLARS NO LONGER TRAVEL AS FAR AS THEY ONCE DID.
I'M NOT GONNA ELABORATE BECAUSE I THINK ALLIE DID A GREAT JOB AND WE DIDN'T BUILD IT TOGETHER THOUGH
SO, UM, IN 2019, UH, $500,000 WAS, UM, A HUGE BUDGET AND IT GOT US EXACTLY WHERE WE NEED IT TO BE.
IF YOU'RE TAKING INFLATION INTO CONSIDERATION, THAT DOLLAR VALUE IS WORTH ABOUT 395,000 TODAY AS WE SPEAK.
AND THAT IS PURELY DUE TO INFLATION.
I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE COST OF ADVERTISING, UM, AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT INCREASED THAT MAKES THE CAMPAIGN SO MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.
SO I'M GONNA CUT THROUGH ALL THE OTHER STUFF AND JUST MAKE IT SHORT AND SWEET.
I WANNA REQUEST THAT WE SERIOUSLY TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE FACT OF WHAT INFLATION DID TO US, WHAT WAGE INCREASES DID TO ALL OF US, WHAT HOUSING DID TO ALL OF US, WHAT INTEREST RATES DID TO ALL OF US.
WE NEED TO LOOK AT A LARGER BUDGET, NOT BECAUSE WE ARE PUSHING FOR SOMETHING THAT'S NOT ATTAINABLE, BUT TO CREATE A PLATFORM WHERE WE CAN SUSTAIN THIS BEAUTIFUL COMMUNITY.
[7.a. Sedona Kindness Day Proclamation, November 13, 2025. ]
A PROCLAMATION TODAY.JULIE, ARE YOU WHERE'S JULIE? LY OKAY.
UM, ALL RIGHT, I'M GONNA READ IT AND THEN I'LL HAVE YOU COME UP AND YOU CAN SAY A FEW WORDS IF YOU WANT TO.
WHEREAS KINDNESS GIVES BIRTH TO KINDNESS SOLES.
AND WHEREAS KINDNESS IS THE LANGUAGE THE DEAF CAN HEAR AND THE BLIND CAN SEE MARK TWAIN.
WHEREAS DEEDS OF KINDNESS ARE EQUAL IN WEIGHT TO ALL THE COMMANDMENTS, THE TALMUD, AND WHERE KINDNESS IS A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF THE HUMAN CONDITION, WHICH BRIDGES THE DIVIDE OF RACE, RELIGION, POLITICS, AND GENDER.
AND WHEREAS IN 1998, WORLD KINDNESS DAY WAS INTRODUCED BY THE WORLD KINDNESS MOVEMENT TO HIGHLIGHT GOOD DEEDS IN ALL COMMUNITIES, FOCUSING ON THE POSITIVE POWER AND THE COMMON THREAD OF KINDNESS THAT BINDS US.
AND WHEREAS A GROUP OF SEDONA CITIZENS FORMED SEDONA KIND TO HELP SPREAD KINDNESS AND ENCOURAGE ACTS OF KINDNESS LOCALLY AND AROUND THE WORLD, AND TO URGE ALL CITIZENS TO CREATE THEIR OWN ACTS OF KINDNESS, TO PAY IT FORWARD AND TO MATCH THE MAGIC AND TRANSFORMATIVE POWERS OF OUR RED ROCKS WITH THE KINDNESS OF ALL THE CITIZENS WHO LIVE HERE NOW, THEREFORE, I, HOLLY PLU, MAYOR OF THE CITY OF SEDONA, ARIZONA ON BEHALF OF THE SEDONA CITY COUNCIL, IN RECOGNITION OF THE HISTORICAL VALUE AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMITMENT TO OBSERVING A DAY TO CELEBRATE KINDNESS, DO HEREBY PROCLAIM THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 13TH, 2025 AS SEDONA KINDNESS DAY AND ENCOURAGE ALL CITIZENS OF SEDONA TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND TAKE TO HEART THE STATEMENT BY SENECA, WHEREVER THERE IS A HUMAN BEING, THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE KIND.
[00:25:10]
UM, YES, WE COUNSEL.WE WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU, UH, THE COUNCIL FOR THIS PROCLAMATION.
THIS IS OUR 10TH YEAR AND WE CONTINUE TO TRY TO SPREAD KINDNESS THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF SEDONA AND THE VERDE VALLEY.
AND IN ORDER TO, UH, RAISE SOME MONEY TO CONTINUE THIS PROGRAM TOMORROW NIGHT OR TOMORROW AT THREE 30 AND SIX 30 AT THE MARY FISHER THEATER, WE ARE GOING TO BE SHOWING NINE SHORTS AND THEY ARE CALLED, UH, FANTASTIC SHORTS.
THEY ARE FUNNY, THEY ARE UPLIFTING, AND THEY TRULY REPRESENT THE KINDNESS THAT WE ARE TRYING TO PROMOTE IN THIS COMMUNITY.
AND THE TICKETS ARE AVAILABLE AT THE BOX OFFICE, CORRECT? YES, THEY ARE.
[8.a. AB 3270 Public hearing/discussion/possible action regarding proposed revisions to the Sedona Land Development Code. The proposed revisions include regulations for implementation of House Bill 2447 (Administrative Review of Development Review and Subdivision applications), Changes to appeal procedures, and Clarification of various code sections Case Number: PZ25-00009 (LDC) Applicant: City of Sedona. ]
BUSINESS AB 32 70 PUBLIC HEARING.DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING PROPOSED REVISIONS TO THE SEDONA LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
THE PROPOSED REVISIONS INCLUDE REGULATIONS FOR IMPLEMENTATION OF HOUSE BILL 24 47, ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW OF DEVELOPMENT REVIEW AND SUBDIVISION APPLICANT APPLICATIONS, CHANGES TO APPEAL PROCEDURES, AND CLARIFICATIONS OF VARIOUS CODE SECTIONS.
CASE NUMBER PZ 25 DASH 0 0 0 0 9 LDC, APPLICANT, CITY OF SEDONA.
AND CARRIE, ARE YOU GOING TO BE PRESENTING TO US? THANK YOU.
I MEAN, UM, THANK YOU MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL.
I CAN BRING UP THE PROPOSED CHANGES IF WE NEED TO, BUT AS ME AS YOU READ, WE ARE HERE TO DISCUSS, UM, AND PRESENT PROPOSED LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENTS, UM, KIND OF IN THE THREE CATEGORIES THAT THE MAYOR JUST READ.
THE FULL EXPLANATION IS IN THE AGENDA.
BILL, UM, PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION HELD A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THESE AMENDMENTS.
THEY RECOMMENDED APPROVAL WITH A FOUR TO THREE VOTE.
HOWEVER, THEY WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU KNEW THAT THEY WERE VERY UNHAPPY WITH THE STATE REQUIREMENTS.
UM, AND SO THAT'S WHERE YOU GOT THE FOUR TO THREE VOTE.
FOUR OF THEM SAID, WE'RE UNHAPPY, BUT WE UNDERSTAND.
THREE OF THEM SAID WE'RE UNHAPPY AND WE DON'T WANT THEM.
UM, SO THAT'S HOW WE GOT THE FOUR TO THREE VOTE.
UM, SO ANTICIPATING THAT THAT IS GOING TO, UM, OCCUPY MUCH OF THE DISCUSSION AS IT DID AT P AND ZI COULD BE WRONG, UM, BUT I WAS GOING TO TAKE DISCUSSION KIND OF IN THE REVERSE ORDER THAT THEY'RE IN THE AGENDA BILL.
SO MAYBE IF LIKE, LEAVE THAT KIND OF WHAT MIGHT BE THE LARGEST DISCUSSION FOR LAST AND GET THE OTHER TWO CATEGORIES.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT KIND OF THE CLARIFICATION CHANGES OR THE APPEALS CHANGES, WE WOULD TAKE THOSE FIRST AND THEN DISCUSS THE HB 24 47 AMENDMENTS.
WHY DON'T YOU BRING THEM UP? OH, OKAY.
I CAN MAKE THEM AS, OH, THEY'RE PRETTY BIG HERE.
UM, SO THEY'RE ALL KIND OF INTERTWINED.
AND SO THE FIRST, UM, KIND OF WHAT WE HAVE IN THE OTHER CHANGES WERE CLARIFICATIONS REGARDING WHAT'S PERMITTED IN NATIONAL FOREST ZONES IF THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T OWN THEM ANYMORE.
UM, THERE'S SOME BUILDING MASSING QUESTION OR CLARIFICATIONS THAT WE HAD AND THEN A COUPLE DEFINITIONS THAT WE WERE CLARIFYING.
CAN YOU ADJUST THAT SO THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE THE SCREEN? GREAT.
SO THERE ANY QUESTIONS ON ANY OF THOSE ITEMS? OKAY.
UM, AND THEN KIND OF THE NEXT SECTION ARE CHANGES IN, UM, THE APPEAL CRITERIA AND PROCEDURES.
[00:30:01]
ABOUT AS WE HAVE GONE THROUGH A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT APPEALS OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS.THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS RECOMMENDING SOME CLARIFICATIONS TO THE WAY THOSE ARE PROCESSED.
THEY STILL GENERALLY FOLLOW THE SAME PROCESS, BUT, UM, JUST IN EXPERIENCE, UM, OR PROPOSING, UM, SOME CHANGES TO THOSE SECTIONS.
ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THOSE? HEY, YOU'RE ON A ROLL.
OH YES, IT'S IN A COUPLE OF SPOTS SO I'LL JUST GO AHEAD AND ASK ABOUT IT NOW.
UH, THIS RECOMMENDATION OF CHANGING THE, UH, RADIUS ON MAILINGS FROM 300 FEET TO 600 FEET.
IS THERE A SPECIFIC PROBLEM THAT THAT IS ADDRESSING? SO THAT IS PART OF THE HB 24 47 AMENDMENTS AND THE, THAT WAS A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.
AND IT WAS A CONCERN THAT BECAUSE THINGS WEREN'T GOING TO A PUBLIC HEARING, THEY MIGHT NOT BE AS WELL PUBLICIZED.
AND SO THEY FELT THAT EXPANDING THE NOTIFICATION RADIUS MIGHT ALLEVIATE SOME OF THE, UM, CONCERNS OF THINGS NOT BEING PUBLICIZED AS WELL.
IF THEY'RE GOING, NOT GOING TO PLANNING, NOT GOING TO A PUBLIC HEARING, I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE SHARING THEIR VIEW.
THAT DOESN'T STRIKE ME AS A COMPELLING ARGUMENT AND, AND I'M PROBABLY GETTING INTO DISCUSSION NOW, SO I'LL HOLD OFF ON ANYTHING FURTHER ON THAT FOR RIGHT NOW.
I'LL HOLD OFF TO DISCUSSION ON THAT, BUT I DO THINK, LET'S MAKE SURE COME BACK TO IT 'CAUSE THAT PART SPECIFICALLY DOES NEED DISCUSSION, I THINK.
SO, UM, FOR THE AMENDMENTS THAT ARE NOTED IN THE PROPOSAL AS BEING RELATED TO HB 24 47, THAT IS A STATE HOUSE BILL THAT TAKES EFFECT AT THE END OF DECEMBER, UM, DECEMBER 31ST, THAT THE STATE IS REQUIRING THAT CITIES AUTHORIZE ADMINISTRATIVE PERSONNEL TO REVIEW AND APPROVE SITE PLANS, DEVELOPMENT PLANS, DESIGN REVIEW PLANS, LAND DIVISIONS, LOT LINE ADJUSTMENT, LOT TIES, PRELIMINARY PLATS, FINAL PLATS AND PLAT AMENDMENTS WITHOUT A PUBLIC HEARING.
SO BASED ON THOSE REQUIREMENTS, UM, RIGHT NOW OUR CODE HAS PUBLIC HEARINGS FOR SITE PLANS, DEVELOPMENT PLANS, DESIGN REVIEW, PRELIMINARY PLOTS, FINAL PLOTS AND PLAT AMENDMENTS.
SO WE HAD TO MAKE QUITE A FEW CHANGES TO, UM, ARTICLES OR SECTIONS 8.4 AND 8.5 OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
UM, AND THEN ALSO 8.3, WHICH IS COMMON REVIEW PROCEDURES.
UM, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW OUR CITIZEN PARTICIPATION PROCESS ONLY APPLIES TO THINGS WITH PUBLIC HEARINGS.
AND SO BECAUSE THIS HOUSE BILL DID NOT PROHIBIT US FROM DOING PUBLIC OUTREACH, WE WANTED TO MAKE CHANGES TO THE, TO 8.3 TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CITIZEN REVIEW COULD APPLY TO THINGS THAT DON'T REQUIRE A PUBLIC HEARING AS WELL.
SO, UM, WE PROVIDED THIS DOCUMENT, WHICH IS, UM, YOU KNOW, EACH CHANGE HIGHLIGHTED.
WE ALSO GAVE YOU THAT RED LINE VERSION 'CAUSE THIS, TO MAKE SURE YOU COULD SEE IT ALL IN CONTEXT, UM, AT THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING, UM, THAT ONE OF THE MAIN RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THEY, OR MAIN MAIN CHANGES THAT THEY MADE TO THE RECOMMENDATION THAT STAFF HAD WAS REGARDING THE NOTIFICATION RADIUSES, WHICH, UH, VICE MAYOR FOLTZ, UM, TOUCHED ON.
UM, BUT THEY ALSO HAD ASKED THAT WHEN WE PRESENT THESE TO CITY COUNCIL, THAT WE WOULD INCLUDE SOME COST ESTIMATES FOR WHAT THAT WOULD MEAN.
THAT IS ALL IN YOUR AGENDA BILL, BUT TO SUMMARIZE, INCREASING A RADIUS, BUT FROM DOUBLING A RADIUS QUADRUPLES THE SIZE OF THE NOTIFICATION AREA.
SO, UM, ACTUAL COSTS FOR THAT ARE, I TRIED TO WORK WITH JOANNE A LITTLE BIT, BUT ALL OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENTS, POSTAGE COSTS ARE JUST ONE LINE ITEM.
AND SO ANYTHING CODE ENFORCEMENT SENDS OUT IS IN THERE TOO.
SO, UM, WE DID SOME ESTIMATES IT WOULD INCREASE OUR POSTAGE COSTS BY A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR AT THE MOST.
UM, AND THE CITY PAYS FOR THAT.
WE DON'T PASS THAT COST ON, BUT IT IS CA INCLUDED IN THE CALCULATION WHEN WE COME UP WITH THE FEES THAT WE CHARGE PROJECTS.
UM, WE COULD MAKE A CHANGE TO THOSE FEES.
I THINK AS MENTIONED THE AGENDA BILL, BUT ALSO BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GOING TO PUBLIC HEARINGS, THERE'S PROBABLY A COST SAVINGS THERE TOO.
SO, UM, IT'S NEGLIGIBLE ENOUGH THAT IT PROBABLY WOULDN'T MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE AND PROBABLY WOULDN'T, UNLESS YOU WANT US TO, UM, MAY NECESSA NECESSITATE A, A CHANGE TO THE ACTUAL FEES.
UM, THE OTHER RECOMMENDATION THAT THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MADE WAS
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THAT, UM, THEY ARE RECOMMENDING CITYWIDE NOTIFICATION FOR CITY INITIATED PROJECTS.AND TO CLARIFY, I THINK THERE'S BEEN SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT AND YOU CAN DISCUSS IT IF YOU WOULD LIKE, BUT THAT WOULD BE, UM, CITY PROJECTS THAT ARE COVERED UNDER THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
SO A NUMBER OF CITY PROJECTS IN THE RIGHT OF WAY.
I THINK A NUMBER OF SHARED USE PATHS, THEY DON'T GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS, SO THEY WOULD NOT, SO IT WOULD BE THINGS, ACTUALLY THIS PROJECT IS A LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENT.
IT IS CITY INITIATED, SO WE WOULD'VE NEEDED TO DO A, UM, A CITYWIDE MAILING FOR THAT.
OTHER THINGS, THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION CONSIDERED A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR THE SHUTTLE, UM, SYSTEM ABOUT A MONTH AGO.
SO THAT WOULD BE A CITY INITIATED PROJECT.
UM, THE ONLY THING THAT WE CURRENTLY DO CITYWIDE MAILINGS FOR ARE MAJOR COMMUNITY PLAN AMENDMENTS AND THE COMMUNITY PLAN.
SO IT'S BEEN ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF SINCE WE'VE DONE ONE.
UM, AND IT WAS ABOUT $3,500 TO, TO DO THAT MAILING.
UM, AND IT DOES REQUIRE A LITTLE BIT MORE PLANNING AHEAD BECAUSE WE DO HAVE A THIRD PARTY VENDOR THAT WE SEND THE INFORMATION TO.
SO IT WOULD ADD, UM, POTENTIALLY ADD A COUPLE WEEKS TO THE TIMEFRAME JUST TO MAKE SURE WE CAN GET THEM ALL THE INFORMATION THAT WE NEED, UM, TO DO THAT IF THAT WAS THE DIRECTION CITY COUNCIL TOOK.
UM, BUT AGAIN, YOU STOP THERE, CARRIE, BECAUSE RYAN HAS, YEAH, THAT WAS, THAT WAS IT.
WE DID HAVE A QUESTION, UH, ON MONDAY ABOUT WHEN WE, IF WE'RE DOING A CITYWIDE MAILING, IS IT LITERALLY WE CAN JUST MAIL TO EVERY HOUSE, EVERY ADDRESS HERE LOCALLY AND THAT SATISFIES THAT? OR IS IT, IF SOMEBODY YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY LIVES IN CALIFORNIA, THIS IS A SECOND HOME HERE, DO WE HAVE TO MAIL THEM IN CALIFORNIA? SO LIKE HOW COMPLICATED IS IT TO DO THIS CITYWIDE TYPE OF MAILING? GENERALLY THE LEGAL NOTICES GO TO PROPERTY OWNERS.
SO, UM, WE, SO E WHEN WE DO THE 300 FOOT RADIUS RIGHT NOW, WE SEND IT TO OWNERS OF PROPERTIES AT THE ADDRESS THAT'S ON FILE WITH THE COUNTY, UM, WHICH ISN'T NECESSARILY THE PHYSICAL ADDRESS.
THE MARATHON DOES BOTH WHEN THEY DO STREET CLOSURE.
SO THERE'S OTHER HYBRIDS OF THAT THAT YOU CAN DO AS WELL.
I WOULD LIKE TO ASK KURT THIS QUESTION.
IF WE WERE TO, SO THIS IS SOMETHING WE AREN'T REQUIRED TO DO.
SO IF WE WERE TO SEND TO EVERY HOUSEHOLD, IT WOULD BE A, A VERY INEXPENSIVE WAY IN WHICH TO NOTIFY PEOPLE 'CAUSE THEY WOULD JUST SEND TO ALL, YOU KNOW, TO A RESIDENT WOULD NECESSAR IT WOULD COVER ALL THE T IT WOULD COVER EVERYBODY AT THE ADDRESS IN SEDONA.
IS THAT LEGALLY SUFFICIENT? YEAH, SO THE FIRST 300 FEET, UH, NOT THE 300 FEET WOULD HAVE TO BE TO THE PROPERTY OWNERS.
IF WE, IF COUNSEL DECIDED TO DO SOMETHING BEYOND THAT, THEN THEY CAN DECIDE HOW THEY WANNA DO IT.
SO THEY COULD MAIL IT JUST TO THE ADDRESSES.
UM, THEY DON'T NEED TO MAIL IT TO THE REGISTERED PROPERTY OWNERS TO KEEP IT SIMPLE AND REDUCE THE EXPENSE.
BUT I'M NOT SURE IF THAT HOW MUCH THAT REDUCES THE EXPENSE OR NOT.
OH, IT, IT'S, IT IS MAJOR REDUCTION.
CARRIE, YOU HAD SAID, EXCUSE ME, TWO THINGS THAT I'M, I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND.
UHHUH,
SO WE DO CHARGE FOR THE MAILING COSTS.
ITS WAS JUST, DO WE HAVE TO, IF WE WANTED TO CHARGE THE INCREMENTAL COSTS FROM THREE TO 600 FEET AND JUST KEEP THAT AS A CITY EXPENSE, COULD WE DO THAT? YEAH, SO RIGHT NOW WE'RE NOT PROPOSING ANY CHANGES TO THE FEE SCHEDULE AND THE FEES WERE, UM, WE DID A PRETTY EXTENSIVE FEE STUDY ABOUT SIX YEARS AGO.
IT WAS IN 2019, UM, THAT FACTORED IN ALL OF THE DIFFERENT TIME COSTS THAT GO TIME COSTS AND MATERIALS COSTS AND EVERYTHING THAT GO INTO AN APPLICATION.
AND, UM, YEAH, WE'RE NOT PROPOSING ANY CHANGES TO THAT.
THAT WAS JUST A A YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE INCREASE IN COST.
AGAIN, IT'S SOMEWHAT NEGLIGIBLE.
WE'RE NOT, YOU DON'T NEED TO GO AND CHANGE FEES AND IT WILL BE A DEFAULT PART OF YOUR CALCULATION THE NEXT TIME YOU'RE BEING FREEZE TO US THOUGH.
IS THAT CORRECT? YOU WOULD JUST AUTOMATICALLY MOVE IT IN THERE? YEAH, SO WHAT WE DID, AGAIN, IT WAS, IT'S BEEN SIX YEARS SINCE WE CHANGED ANY OF THE FEES, BUT WE DID A, YOU KNOW, HERE'S THE ACTUAL COST TO THE CITY, HERE'S WHAT OUR CURRENT FEE SCHEDULE GETS US AS FAR AS, UH, RECOVERY RATE.
AND THEN CITY COUNCIL MADE A DECISION ABOUT, AND IT'S, IT'S, NO, IT'S NOT OVER A HUNDRED PERCENT FOR ANY APPLICATION.
WE DON'T MAKE MONEY ON THESE, BUT THERE ARE SOME APPLICATIONS THEY SAID WE'RE OKAY WITH A LOWER RECOVERY RATE.
THERE'S SOME THAT THEY WANTED, UH, CLOSER TO A HUNDRED PERCENT.
SO, UM, THAT CAN ALL BE DISCUSSED.
[00:40:01]
FOR MY OWN CLARIFICATION, WHEN THE CITY'S DOING PROJECTS LIKE THE ROUNDABOUTS, UM, THE TRANSIT MAINTENANCE STRUCTURE, THE GARAGE, WHICH IS IN THE PAST ARE, DO THESE, DON'T, THESE NORMALLY GO THROUGH P AND Z AT SOME POINT? BESIDES COMING TO COUNCIL FOR BUDGET? ROUNDABOUTS HAVE NOT, HAVE NOT 'CAUSE THOSE ARE IN PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.YEAH, THE GARAGE HAD A COMMUNITY PLAN AMENDMENT ZONE CHANGE AND A DEVELOPMENT REVIEW.
UM, THE TRANSIT MAINTENANCE OPERATIONS FACILITY, IF THAT, YOU KNOW, AS THAT MOVES FORWARD, IT WOULD, I UM, I GUESS IT, THERE'S SOME ZONING AND SOME DEVELOPMENT REVIEW, WHICH NOW WOULDN'T GO TO A PUBLIC HEARING BUT WOULD FALL UNDER THIS NOTIFICATION.
SO, SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, SOMETHING LIKE THE TRANSIT MAINTENANCE STRUCTURE, WHICH WE'RE, ARE ALREADY HAVING CONVERSATIONS IN THE COMMUNITY ABOUT, WOULD NOT GO IN FRONT OF P AND Z FOR ANY KIND OF DEVELOPMENT REVIEW, THOUGH ANY ZONING CHANGES WILL STILL HAVE TO COME IN FRONT OF, EVENTUALLY IN FRONT OF COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL BECAUSE THAT'S AN ORDINANCE CHANGE, RIGHT.
AND UNDER THE CURRENT ORDINANCE IN 2025, THE DESIGN OF THAT STRUCTURE WOULD GO TO P AND Z.
IT WOULD NOT UNDER THIS NEW CODE, BUT BECAUSE IT IS OVER A CERTAIN SIZE THRESHOLD, IT WOULD FALL UNDER THE NOTICING REQUIREMENTS.
I WAS JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT AT WHAT POINT DO WE HAVE OR DO NOT HAVE ANY LONGER PUBLIC INPUT ON, UM, STRUCTURES THAT THE CITY ITSELF IS PAYING FOR IN THIS BUILDING.
SO, UM, THINK CAN I ASK SORT OF A GENERAL QUESTION? SO I HAVE A, JUST A GENERAL QUESTION.
THIS PROBABLY A CURT QUESTION.
SO I'LL LOOK AT KURT ANSWER QUESTIONS.
SO, UM, THIS GOES INTO EFFECT.
THESE CHANGES GO INTO EFFECT BASICALLY ON THE 1ST OF JANUARY, EVEN THOUGH THE 31ST OF DECEMBER IS THE LEGAL DATE.
MY, MY QUESTION IS, WHAT ABOUT PROJECTS THAT ARE SOMEWHERE IN THE HOPPER TODAY? I, WHETHER THEY'RE UNDER REVIEW OR THEY'RE NOT UNDER REVIEW, THEY'RE OUT WAITING FOR SOMETHING ELSE.
ARE THEY ALL GRANDFATHERED IN AND WILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH WHAT EXISTS TODAY WITH REVIEW IN THE P AND Z? OR DO THEY FALL OUT OF THAT AND THEY'RE NOT GRANDFATHERED IN? SO, SO I DON'T SEE IT AS A, A GRANDFATHERING ISSUE 'CAUSE THEY'RE NOT OUT OF COMPLIANCE EITHER WAY.
I SEE IT AS, AS OF JANUARY ONE, THIS LEGISLATURES PROHIBITED US FROM HAVING PUBLIC HEARINGS ON THESE MATTERS.
SO AFTER JANUARY ONE, WE CAN NO LONGER HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING AND IT'LL HAVE TO BE STAFF REVIEW REGARDLESS OF WHERE IT'S AT IN THE PROCESS.
AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WAS REALLY CLEAR BECAUSE I DO BELIEVE SOME PEOPLE WERE UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT ANYTHING THAT ANY PROJECT THEY'VE ALREADY PUT IN WOULD BE, OR THAT ALREADY EXISTS WOULD BE SUBJECT TO STILL PUBLIC REVIEW AND IT WILL NOT BE SUBJECT TO PUBLIC REVIEW.
SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE PUBLIC OPEN PUBLIC STATEMENTS.
SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT SORT OF THE GENERAL AUDIENCE IS AWARE THAT IF THEY HAVE A PROJECT THAT'S CURRENTLY SITTING THERE AS OF THE 31ST, IT'S JUST LIKE ANY OTHER PROJECT COMING THROUGH UNDER 24 47.
AND JUST TO BE CLEAR, WE WOULD STILL BE DOING THE SAME NOTIFICATION.
UM, SO PEOPLE WILL CORRECT, THEY WON'T BE SURPRISED IF A BULLDOZER SHOWS UP ON A, YOU KNOW, A COMMERCIAL LOT NEXT TO THEM.
BUT THE PUBLIC HEARING WON'T HAPPEN.
IT'S THE P AND Z, IT'S THE ABILITY TO COME IN FRONT OF THE P AND Z AND STATE THEIR OPINION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER THAT IS NO LONGER A VIABLE UNDER 24 47.
I WANNA JUST DO A FOLLOW UP TO THAT WITH KURT.
A PUBLIC HEARING IS NOT THE SAME THING AS AS A PUBLIC FORUM.
ARE THEY BOTH ELIMINATED? SO THE, THE, THE, UH, THE STATUTE DIDN'T DEFINE THAT, BUT THE INTENTION WAS THAT IT DOES NOT GO TO A PUBLIC MEETING.
UM, ALL THE LEGISLATIVE INTENT.
SO THEY WANT, THEY DID NOT WANT DESIGN REVIEW OR SUBDIVISION PLATS TO GO BEFORE PNZ.
THAT WAS THE LEGISLATIVE INTENT.
AND SO THEY CALLED IT A PUBLIC HEARING.
CURRENTLY, WE, OUR STATUTE REQUIRES, OUR ORDINANCE WOULD REQUIRE PUBLIC HEARINGS ON THOSE.
AND SO THESE LDC CHANGES ARE ELIMINATING THOSE PUBLIC HEARINGS.
SO YEAH, THAT'S EXACTLY, WANTED TO FOLLOW UP HERE AS WELL.
UH, ISN'T THERE A WAY FOR US, SO I'M, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THIS REDUCTION IN PUBLIC DISCUSSION OF PROJECTS, ESPECIALLY A CITY INITIATED ONE, LIKE THE TRANSIT MAINTENANCE FACILITY OR WHATEVER MIGHT COME NEXT AT WESTERN GATEWAY OR WHATEVER ELSE.
ISN'T THERE A WAY FOR US TO GET A LITTLE BIT CREATIVE ON IT, BRINGING SOMETHING TO P AND Z? DON'T CALL IT A PUBLIC HEARING, YOU CALL IT SOMETHING ELSE WHERE P AND
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Z AND THE PUBLIC CAN GET INPUT THROUGH THERE.A CITY OWNED PROJECT WHO'S GONNA SUE US? IT'S OUR PROJECT.
NO, IT'S, THE CITY COULD CERTAINLY BRING ITS OWN PROJECTS TO CITY COUNCIL OR PZ IF IT WANTED TO ANYWAYS, AS, AS A OWNER, THAT'S OKAY.
SO CITY CAN PUT ITS ANY REQUIREMENTS WANTS TO ON ITSELF.
SO WE COULD DO SOMETHING IN THESE CHANGES ABOUT A CITY OWNED PROJECT.
DEREK, UH, CARRIE, DO YOU HAVE, IF WE ADD THIS REQUIREMENT THAT WE MAIL THE ENTIRE CITY FOR ANY CITY INITIATED PROJECTS, DO YOU HAVE A VAGUE IDEA HOW MANY OF THESE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EACH YEAR OR, UM, SO WHEN WE WENT BACK AND LOOKED AT THE LAST FIVE YEARS OF HEARINGS, UM, IT WOULD AVERAGE ABOUT SIX PER YEAR.
BETWEEN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL.
DO WE HAVE ANY CARDS? WE, ARE WE LOOKING AT THE REST OF THE CHANGES? WELL, YES.
OH, I DIDN'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING ELSE FOR ME TO SAY, BUT I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE.
SO, YEAH, AND WHEN YOU GET TO DOWN TO SECTION NINE, AND I GOTTA FAST FORWARD, YOU'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT WEDDINGS.
WHERE'D IT GO? UM, AND THERE'S, IT BASICALLY INCLUDES WEDDING RECEPTIONS, IT SAYS OTHER, YEAH.
IT SAYS, UH, OTHER WEDDING RELATED EVENTS.
I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER, UM, YOUR EXACT LANGUAGE IN HERE.
IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SORT OF DISTINCTION.
FOR EXAMPLE, FRIENDS GOT MARRIED IN MY HOUSE, RIGHT? THERE WERE A TOTAL OF EIGHT OF US AT THE WEDDING.
THIS NOW WOULD REQUIRE A PERMIT ACCORDING TO THIS PROCESS.
UM, THAT IS, IT'S A HUNDRED DOLLARS PERMIT.
AND AS LONG AS YOUR HOUSE IS NOT REGISTERED AS A SHORT TERM RENTAL, YOU, WE WOULD WORK WITH YOU AND MAKE IT AS EASY AS POSSIBLE.
HAVE WE THOUGHT ABOUT PUTTING SOME SORT OF, BECAUSE I THINK, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE SMALL EVENTS LIKE THAT, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE FROM HAVING EIGHT PEOPLE OVER FOR A WEDDING VERSUS HAVING AN ANNIVERSARY PARTY FOR SOMEBODY? AND I'VE GOT 40 PEOPLE NOW AT THAT AND THAT'S MAKING A LOT MORE NOISE, BUT THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE ANYTHING.
AND THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT FUNDRAISERS IN HERE AS WELL.
IF IN MY PRIVATE HOME I AM TRYING TO RAISE MONEY FOR SOME CAUSE CLOSE TO MY HEART OR SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, AROUND HAVING A HOUSE PARTY FOR THAT OR SOMETHING.
THESE THINGS NOW ALL REQUIRE PERMITS.
IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE SORT OF TRAMPLING ON PEOPLE'S RIGHTS TO USE THEIR HOME FOR THEIR, FOR FRIENDSHIP, FOR COLLEGIALITY, FOR THEIR CAUSES OF THEIR HEART.
I MEAN, IT JUST SEEMS OVERLY RESTRICTIVE.
SO CAN YOU SPEAK TO THAT? HAVE WE CONSIDERED PUTTING A NUMBER OF ATTENDEES AS SOME SORT OF A THRESHOLD? BECAUSE THIS IS, IS VERY BROAD, SO I'LL I'LL SPEAK TO THAT FIRST.
UM, NO, I DON'T THINK, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT A NUMBER OF ATTENDEES WEDDINGS WAS, HAS HAS ALREADY BEEN IN THE CODE FOR AT LEAST A YEAR OR TWO YEARS.
UM, AND REQUIRED ANYONE TO HOLD A WEDDING AT THEIR HOUSE AS A SPECIAL EVENT.
SO THEY NEEDED TUP, UM, THE ADDITION THAT, THE ONLY ADDITION THAT STAFF WAS, UH, PROPOSED WAS THE WEDDING RECEPTIONS.
UM, UM, AND THEN IT WAS P AND Z RECOMMENDED AND OR OTHER WEDDING RELATED EVENTS.
UM, SO, BUT YEAH, IT'S, IT, IT, THEY ARE EASY TO COME BY AND THEY ARE, HOW MANY DO WE GIVE UP TO A YEAR? UM, RIGHT NOW WE'VE BEEN DOING A COUPLE A YEAR.
UM, I THINK WE'VE DONE TWO OR THREE EACH YEAR.
IT WAS, UM, BORN OUT OF, UM, SHORT TERM RENTALS TURNING INTO WEDDING VENUES.
YES, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT TOO.
YEAH, I'M ABSOLUTELY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.
BUT THAT'S WHY I THINK SOME SORT OF A THRESHOLD.
BUT I ALSO DON'T WANT TO INFRINGE ON THE RIGHTS OF, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY TO HAVE SOME NICE EVENT FOR THEIR FRIENDS OR FAMILY IN A SMALL WAY.
I DON'T, I JUST, I'M TRYING TO DO A, ACHIEVE A BALANCE HERE.
SO ANY THRESHOLD THAT COUNCIL PUT ON THIS WOULD APPLY TO SHORT-TERM RENTALS AS WELL THEN.
SO IF IT WAS A 15 PERSON, THEN SHORT-TERM RENTALS COULD HAVE WEDDINGS UP LESS THAN 15 PEOPLE.
DO WE HAVE ANY REASON TO THINK THAT A SMALL AMOUNT OF PEOPLE AT A, UH, HAVING A WEDDING IN A PRIVATE HOME
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OR A SHORT TERM RENTAL IS MORE NOISY OR INTRUSIVE THAN IT'S TWICE THAT AMOUNT OF PEOPLE HAVING A POOL PARTY, WHICH IS NOTI JUST THINK WE'RE, I THINK I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PROBLEM IS AND I WANNA GO ABOUT ADDRESSING THE PROBLEM, BUT I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE SORT OF NOT GOING ABOUT IT IN THE RIGHT WAY.
UH, DEREK AND THEN, AND THEN AND BRIAN, BUT I, I HAVE A QUESTION RELATED TO THAT.
IT SAYS HERE TO ADDRESS ISSUES ENCOUNTERED IN SHORT TERM RENTAL ENFORCEMENT MM-HMM
SO LIKE KURT SAID, THE WEDDING HAS BEEN IN THERE FOR A COUPLE YEARS, BUT THEN PEOPLE COME IN AND SAY, WELL, MY WEDDING WAS IN THE FOREST, BUT I'M HAVING MY RECEPTION AT THIS SHORT TERM RENTAL.
AND SO THEY'RE TRYING TO GET AROUND THAT.
SO WE WERE TRYING TO GIVE OKAY.
UH, SO THE TAG ON THEN IS, UM, ARE WE ALLOWED TO DISCRIMINATE ON STR VERSUS NON STR WHEN IT COMES TO SOMETHING LIKE A WEDDING OR NOT? NO.
SO THE, WHAT THE STATE LAW ALLOWS IS THAT IF A, A PERMIT IS REQUIRED FOR A SPECIAL EVENT, THEN THEY'RE PROHIBITED AT SHORT-TERM RENTALS PERIOD.
SO, UM, ANY SPECIAL EVENT THAT REQUIRES A PERMIT IS ALLOWED AT THE REST OF RESIDENCES.
BUT IF THEY REQUIRE A PERMIT, THEY CANNOT BE HELD AT A SHORT-TERM RENTAL.
UH, ONE VIOLATION OF THAT POLICY ALLOWS THE CITY TO REVOKE THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL, UH, LICENSE FOR ONE YEAR.
WE DO GET MANY COMPLAINTS FROM NEIGHBORS ABOUT THE NEIGHBOR'S SHORT-TERM RENTAL, HAVING A WEDDING PARTY GOING ON TAG ONTO YOUR TAG ON
UM, OKAY, SO ONE VIOLATION ALLOWS THE REVOCATION, BUT WHAT DOES ONE VIOLATION DUE TO A RESIDENT? NOT A RENTAL, A RESIDENCE OH ONE.
UM, WE HAVEN'T ENCOUNTERED THAT, I BELIEVE, BUT IT WOULD BE, IT COULD BE A FINE, YOU KNOW, GENERALLY THE FIRST TIME FINE'S 50 BUCKS OR SOMETHING IF YOU DON'T GET A, IF YOU DON'T GET THE PERMIT AND THE COURTS CHEAPER THAN THE A HUNDRED DOLLARS PERMIT.
THE JUDGE COULD, COULD ORDER MORE IF I MAY, IF I MAY AS WELL.
UH, DO YOU SAID THE PERMITS ARE EASY TO GET.
DO WE HAVE ONLINE PERMIT FOR THIS KIND OF THING? WE HOPEFULLY WILL ONCE WE GET OUR NEW ERP, BUT RIGHT NOW WE DON'T.
UM, IT'S A ONE PAGE OR AS A TWO PAGE FORM THEY FILL OUT AND MAIL IN.
AND IF THERE'S ONLY GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, 10 TO 15 PEOPLE, IT'S, UM, WHERE, WHERE WE ASK MORE QUESTIONS IS WHEN THEY SAID THEY'RE GONNA HAVE, YOU KNOW, A HUNDRED PEOPLE, IT'S WHERE ARE THEY GONNA PARK? YOU KNOW, HOW, WHERE, HOW ARE YOU PUTTING LIGHTS IN YOUR YARD? THAT SORT OF THING.
BUT THEY'RE FAIRLY STRAIGHTFORWARD.
AND THEN IS WHAT IS WEDDING RELATED MEAN? IS THAT WELL ENOUGH TO DEFINE THAT? WE'LL KNOW WHAT IT MEANS DOES INCLUDE A BRIDAL SHOWER.
WHAT ABOUT A WEDDING PLANNING MEETING THAT HAPPENS SIX MONTHS BEFORE THE WEDDING? IS THAT A WEDDING RELATED EVENT? I WOULDN'T CALL THAT A PLANNING MEETING AN AN EVENT.
THAT'S NOT SOMETHING PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, YOU SEND OUT INVITATIONS TO OR ANYTHING, BUT, UM, YES, A BACHELOR PARTY OR A BRIDAL SHOWER WOULD, UH, LIKE WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THE WEDDING RELATED EVENTS.
WE CAN SPELL OUT EACH ONE IF WE WANT TO.
THERE'S ONE THING ABOUT SPELLING IT OUT IN THE CODE, IT'S ANOTHER, JUST MAKE SURE WHENEVER WE DO A FAC UPDATE OR A A WEBSITE UPDATE THAT WE GIVE A LITTLE BIT MORE HELP TO PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE CLARITY OF THE RULES.
LIKE, LIKE KURT SAID, YOU KNOW, WE HAD WEDDINGS AND WEDDING WEDDING RECEPTIONS AND, UM, PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION ADDED.
THE WEDDING RELATED EVENTS ADDED THE WEDDING.
WHAT THE WEDDING RELATED EVENTS.
SO THE, THE RED PARK AND RED TEXT HERE WAS WHAT WAS ADDED BY THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.
DO THEY CITE A SPECIFIC TYPE OF EVENT IN THEIR DIALOGUE? I THINK IT WAS JUST A GENERAL, WHAT IF PEOPLE CALL SOMETHING, SOMETHING DIFFERENT? YEAH, OKAY.
WELL IF IT'S NOT A RECEPTION, IT'S A WEDDING.
I THINK THEY USE, WHAT DID THEY SAY? CELEBRATION.
IT'S JUST A CELEBRATION OR A COMMEMORATION OR SOMETHING.
OR WE ACTUALLY GOT MARRIED IN JULY AND NOW WE'RE JUST HAVING A HUNDRED PEOPLE HERE TO COMMEMORATE THE JULY WEDDING.
DEREK, IS THIS UNUSUAL? KURT? I MEAN, TO ME THE IDEA OF REQUIRING SOMEBODY TO GET A PERMIT TO HOLD A WEDDING IN THEIR OWN HOME, IT'S KIND OF FRANKLY
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ASININE TO ME.BUT, SO I I FEEL LIKE IT'S, NO, I DON'T THINK IT'S UNUSUAL.
IT'S, UM, MOST HOMEOWNERS PROBABLY DON'T EVER HAVE A WEDDING IN THEIR HOME.
UM, I MEAN, YOU HAVE ONE KID, TWO KIDS, UM, UH, YOU DON'T GET MARRIED EVERY YEAR AND SO YOU DON'T NEED WEDDINGS EVERY YEAR AT YOUR HOUSE, SIR.
YOU HAVE AN ANNIVERSARY PARTY WHERE SHORT TERM RENTALS, YOU HAVE A BIG ANNIVERSARY PARTY.
I MEAN, I, THOSE AREN'T PROHIBITED.
UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? CHRISTMAS PARTIES, UM, BUT SHORT TERM RENTALS HAVE BECOME, UH, WEDDING VENUES, EVENT VENUES AND NEIGHBORHOODS.
BUT SO CAN WE NOT REQUIRE THE PERMIT FOR SOMEBODY HAVING AN EVENT IN THEIR OWN HOME, A WEDDING EVENT IN THEIR OWN HOME? NO, IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT REQUIRES A PERMIT FOR THE HOME TO APPLY TO SHORT-TERM TO BE PROHIBITED IN SHORT-TERM RENTALS.
CAN WE ASK THERESA TO COME IN HERE IF SHE'S AROUND? BECAUSE I WANT TO HEAR WHAT SORT OF A PROBLEM THIS IS.
I MEAN, I THINK THE PROBLEM IS COMING FROM THE FACT THAT THE STATE IS NOT ALLOWING US TO TREAT SHORT-TERM RENTALS DIFFERENTLY, BUT WE'RE TRYING TO ATTACK THAT PROBLEM HERE WITH, WITH SOLUTIONS OVER HERE THAT HURT OUR HOMEOWNERS, OUR RESIDENTS, OUR, YOU KNOW, AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE'VE VETTED ENOUGH OTHER OPTIONS TO, TO BEFORE CONSIDERATION OF THIS.
CAN YOU TELL ME, SO I WAS GONNA SAY, WHEN THE WEDDINGS WAS ADDED, THIS WAS A DISCUSSION THAT WE HAD THEN TOO.
AND AGAIN, IT WAS, IF YOU WANNA BE ABLE TO PROHIBIT, YOU KNOW, TO REGULATE WEDDINGS IN SHORT TERM RENTALS, YOU HAVE TO REGULATE WEDDINGS IN ALL RESIDENTIAL HOMES.
I STILL DON'T THINK, I MEAN THERE.
AND WERE ANY OTHER OPTIONS CONSIDERED IN THAT CONVERSATION ABOUT LIKE ATTENDEE THRESHOLDS OR IF, IF THERE'S ANY SORT OF PROFESSIONAL CATERING INVOLVED OR SOMETHING LIKE ANYTHING THAT WOULD MAKE IT MORE OF A COMMERCIAL EVENT? ANYTHING THAT WOULD DEFINE IT DIFFERENTLY? WAS THAT UNDER DISCUSSION? UM, I DON'T REMEMBER, BUT YEAH, IT WAS THE, YOU HAVE TO TREAT IT THE SAME ACROSS THE BOARD.
AND I, I THINK THEY DID, WE DID TALK ABOUT CATERING AND, AND WHATEVER THAT GETS HARDER TO ENFORCE OR PROVE, YOU KNOW, WHETHER, YOU KNOW, WAS IT IS THE CATER HAVE TO BE THERE, DID THEY DROP OFF THE FOOD EARLIER? HOW DO WE, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T STAKE OUT THE HOUSE THE ENTIRE TIME TO PROVE ELEMENTS LIKE THAT.
AND SO BASICALLY WHAT WE COMMITTED TO AT THAT TIME WAS THAT IF RESIDENTS CAME IN WANTING TO HAVE A WEDDING AT THEIR HOUSE THAT'S NOT A SHORT-TERM RENTAL, WE WOULD MAKE THAT PROCESS AS EASY AS POSSIBLE.
THEY STILL HAVE TO GET A PERMIT, BUT WE, YOU KNOW, IT'S A FAIRLY SIMPLE, LIKE I SAID, IT'S A FAIRLY SIMPLE, IT TAKES MAYBE 10 MINUTES TO FILL OUT THE FORM AND WE'D WORK WITH THEM TO DO THAT.
BUT THAT WAS THE SOLUTION TO BE ABLE TO SAY NO TO THEM IN SHORT TERM RENTALS.
BUT BEFORE THERESA, ONE QUESTION DIRECTLY TO THAT.
HOW DO WE EXPECT PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT, THAT THEY WOULD NEED TO COME TO YOU? I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WHO SAYS, MY COUSIN IS GETTING MARRIED.
WE'RE GONNA HAVE CAKE AND CHAMPAGNE INSIDE.
THE WHOLE THING TAKES AN HOUR.
THERE ARE 10, 15 PEOPLE PRESENT.
HOW DO THEY KNOW THAT THEY SHOULD BE EXPECTED TO GET A A PERMIT? WE GET CALLS ABOUT IT.
UM, A LOT OFTENTIMES WHEN PEOPLE ARE PLANNING WEDDINGS, THEY'LL JUST CALL AND SAY, DO I NEED A PERMIT FOR THIS? LEMME SAY THIS FOR THAT, FOR LIKE A SMALL EVENT LIKE THAT.
UH, DEREK AND THEN PETE, KURT, COULD WE MAKE THE FINE A DOLLAR FOR VIOLATING NONE? UH, YES.
YOU, AND THEN WE COULD STILL PROHIBIT IT ON SHORT TERM RENTALS.
IT DOESN'T, IT'S NOT CONTINGENT ON THE AMOUNT OF THE FINE.
SO COUNSEL COULD DETERMINE, UM, MANDATORY MAXIMUM.
MY BRAIN CELLS SEEM TO RECALL THAT THE STATE LAW WAS ABOUT WE CAN'T DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN LONG AND SHORT-TERM RENTALS.
SO I'M GOING TO JUMP TO THE OTHER COLUMN, WHICH IS TO ADDRESS ISSUES ENCOUNTERED IN SHORT TERM RENTAL ENFORCEMENT.
WE'LL BE LEADING UP TO THERESA IN THIS, I SUSPECT.
AND IF SOMEONE DOESN'T GET A TUP, THEY DON'T GET THE TEMPORARY PERMIT.
THEY DON'T KNOW THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GET A TEMPORARY PERMIT.
RIGHT? AND THEY'RE DOING ONE OF THESE THINGS OR HAVING A YOGA CLASS, WHICH MM-HMM
'CAUSE THAT'S A BUSINESS, BUT, UM, AN OPERATING BUSINESS OUTTA YOUR HOME.
BUT THEY HAVE ONE OF THESE EVENTS THEY DON'T KNOW THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE ONE.
NO ONE SAYS, OH MY GOSH, I'M GONNA HAVE TO CALL CODE ENFORCEMENT BECAUSE THEY'RE REALLY LOUD.
OR I'M GONNA CALL THE POLICE BECAUSE THEY'RE REALLY LOUD.
DOES ANYONE KNOW THAT THE TREE FELL IN THE FOREST?
[01:00:03]
PROBABLY NOT.SO GENERALLY IT'S CODE ENFORCEMENT IS COMPLAINT BASED.
SO, UH, WE NEED A COMPLAINT TO THEN, UH, REACT TO.
AND SO IN THESE CASES, THE CHANCES ARE THAT IF IT'S A SHORT TERM RENTAL THAT'S DOING THIS, WHICH IS IN VIOLATION OF THE PERMIT, AND THEY GO AHEAD AND THEY DO ONE OF THESE AND NO ONE CALLS CODE ENFORCEMENT.
THERESA, DO WE KNOW ABOUT IT? NO, WE DO NOT.
THERE ARE A GROWING NUMBER OF SHORT-TERM RENTAL COMPLAINTS.
COUNSELOR FURMAN SHARED, UH, CONCERN ABOUT A WEDDING AT A SHORT-TERM RENTAL.
AND WHAT WE HAD MOST RECENTLY WAS TWO SHORT-TERM RENTALS ADVERTISING THEMSELVES AS SHORT AS WEDDING VENUES.
AND THAT CONSTITUTED NOT JUST BEING ABLE TO USE THE SPACE, BUT THAT THE OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY WOULD PROVIDE THE BAND, THE CATERING, THE EVENT PLANNING.
SO A PLANNER, UM, BUS SERVICE, UM, ALL OF IT.
AND SO THERE'S, THERE'S THIS, UM, THERE'S BEEN AN INCREASING NUMBER OF PEOPLE CALLING SHORT TERM RENTAL OWNERS CALLING, SAYING, CAN I HOST A WEDDING AT MY PROPERTY? AND WHEN THEY'RE TOLD NO, 'CAUSE THEY WERE SMART ENOUGH TO CALL, THEN THEY POINT TO THESE PROPERTIES AND ONE OF THE PROPERTIES WAS REALLY GOOD.
WHEN THEY RECEIVED THEIR NOTICE OF VIOLATION, THEY STOPPED THE OTHER PROPERTY.
IT'S TAKEN THREE DIFFERENT CONVERSATIONS AND TWO CITATIONS.
AND PART OF WHAT, UH, CARRIE IS DOING IN COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT IS DOING IS DEFINING THIS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO COMPLY.
UM, THERE ARE ANECDOTAL STORIES ABOUT PEOPLE CALLING AFTER THE FACT SAYING, YOU KNOW, MY NEIGHBOR HAD MY SHORT-TERM RENTAL NEIGHBOR HAD AN EVENT AND THEY KIND OF TOLD ME THEY WERE HAVING IT, BUT THEN OOPS, YOU KNOW, DON'T TELL 'EM I TOLD YOU YOU COULD HAVE IT.
AND SO THERE'S A GROWING NUMBER OF THESE.
AND SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS OUTLINE THIS SO THAT WE CAN EFFECTIVELY ADDRESS WHAT IS A REALLY, I I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE THE INCOME THAT SOME OF THESE FOLKS HAVE MADE.
AND THERE'S AN IMPLIED PERMISSION IF WE DON'T STOP OR HAVE AN EFFECTIVE WAY OF REGULATING BECAUSE IT'S JUST GONNA CONTINUE.
THERE'S A, THERE'S A REAL DESIRE AND YOU'RE RIGHT, IF NOBODY REPORTS IT, WE'RE NOT GONNA KNOW.
IT TOOK ME PROBABLY SIX TO EIGHT MONTHS TO LINE UP WORKING WITH PD AND TO LINE UP WITH A HOTLINE TO ACTUALLY GET WEDDINGS REPORTED WHILE THEY WERE HAPPENING.
SO WE HAD EVIDENCE AND THEN BACK IN MARCH OR APRIL OF THIS LAST YEAR, WE AMENDED CITY CODE.
SO THAT ADVERTISING AS A EVENT VENUE IN A SHORT TERM RENTAL WAS ALSO A CODE VIOLATION.
AND EVEN WITH THAT, IT'S JUST VERY DIFFICULT TO TRACK DOWN.
AND I DON'T THINK WE'RE HAVING AN EPIDEMIC, BUT I DO THINK WE COULD IN THE FUTURE.
UM, I THINK THAT JUST NOT RECOGNIZING THIS AND NOT ADDRESSING IT IS IMPLIED PERMISSION.
AND UM, I DON'T EXPECT THAT WE WOULD CATCH EVERYONE, BUT IF WE CAN BE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT'S EXPECTED.
UM, MY HOPE IS I JUST GOT, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE CHECKED THE WEBSITE, BUT THE WEBSITE NOW HAS SOME VERY SPECIFIC, UM, RULES ABOUT WEDDINGS VERY SPECIFICALLY OUTLINED FOR SHORT TERM RENTALS.
AND I GOT A NEWSLETTER OUT ABOUT LATE FEES AND ABOUT, UM, OH, I'M SORRY, IT'S THE END OF THE DAY.
WHAT WAS THE OTHER ONE? WE'RE DENYING PERMITS.
SO IF SOMEONE SENDS US A PERMIT THAT DOESN'T HAVE ALL OF THE REQUIRED INFORMATION, WE CAN NOW PUSH IT BACK.
SO RATHER THAN ME SITTING WITH SOMETHING IN MY QUEUE FOR SIX MONTHS AND TRYING TO REACH SOMEONE AND REACH SOMEONE AND REACH SOMEONE, SO THEY COMPLY, NOW THEY GET A DENIAL AND IT'S ON THEM TO REACH US TO FIND OUT WHY THEIR RENEWAL OR THEIR PERMIT WAS DENIED SO THAT WE'RE NOT SPENDING LABOR HOURS TRYING TO BE NICE.
UM, SO THE OWNERS THAT WANNA COMPLY WITH THIS DUE, THERE ARE A LOT OF MOTIVATED CHURCH AND RENTAL OWNERS.
THERE ARE A LOT OF PROPERTY MANAGERS WHO WANNA KNOW WHAT THE RULES ARE AND THEY MAKE IT THEIR BUSINESS TO KNOW AND COMPLY.
AND I DON'T HAVE TO SAY ANYTHING MORE THAN ONCE.
OR I CAN ASK A QUESTION AND THEN THEY COMPLY.
AND THEN THERE ARE OTHERS THAT NEED A LITTLE MORE DISCUSSION.
SO I UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
[01:05:01]
RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES AND IT'S, IT'S RIDICULOUS THAT THE STATE RESTRICTS WHAT WE CAN REGULATE AND TIES IT TO, TO HYS RESIDENTIAL REGULATION, TO SHORT TERM RENTAL REGULATION.AND SO WE'RE TRYING TO FIND A PATHWAY TO BE EFFECTIVE IN CREATING A GOOD RESIDENT EXPERIENCE FOR SHORT-TERM RENTALS AND RESPECTING, GIVING SOME CLEAR GUIDELINE FOR SHORT-TERM RENTAL OWNERS SO THAT THEY KNOW WHAT THEY CAN AND CAN'T DO.
UM, AND THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE THAT WEIRD LITTLE EDGE THAT'S KIND OF WISHY-WASHY AND PEOPLE CHALLENGE AND REQUIRE MORE COMMUNICATION, BUT THE BETTER AND THE CLEARER THAT WE CAN BE, THE MORE EFFECTIVE WE CAN BE.
SO, I DON'T KNOW IF I'VE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION OR NOT.
HOW MUCH OF A PROBLEM IS IT WE'RE TRYING TO BALANCE THE RIGHTS OF RESIDENTS TO HOLD EVENTS IN THEIR HOMES WITH A SHORT TERM RENTAL? I WOULD SAY THAT I'M HEARING RIGHT NOW ABOUT, UM, TWO TO THREE INCIDENCES A MONTH SO FAR.
AND THOSE ARE THE ONES UNDER DISCUSSION.
UM, AND ARE THEY MOSTLY WEDDINGS? YEAH.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, THERESA, JUST, THERESA MENTIONED, I'D LIKE TO SHARE, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S GOING ON IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH IS ON MY STREET, 50% SHORT TERM RENTALS.
BUT THERE IS ONE OF, UH, HOUSE NEARBY, VERY NEARBY THAT HAS SHIFTED INTO SOME TYPE OF WEDDING VENUE WHERE I THINK THERE'S NOW BEEN FOUR.
AND THEY'RE NOT THE WEDDINGS 'CAUSE I THINK THEY'RE GOING OUT INTO THE FOREST.
I DON'T KNOW IF THE DETAILS YOU SHARED ABOUT THAT.
ONE PLACE THAT'S FACILITATING IT IS, IS THE ONE NEAR ME.
BUT THEY ARE HIRING CATERERS AND BUSES AND, YOU KNOW, AND IT'S BACHELOR PARTIES OR BACHELOR PARTIES OR SOMETIMES IT'S ONE AND THEN FOLLOWED BY THE OTHER THE NEXT FEW DAYS.
BUT IT'S CHARACTERISTICALLY DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER SHORT TERM RENTALS THAT ARE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
THEY'RE NOT PEOPLE WHO ARE CHOOSING TO BE HERE ON VACATION FOR THE THINGS THAT SEDONA HAS TO OFFER.
THERE'S NOW 10 OR 12 CARS PARKED ON THE STREET AND IT'S MORE OF A PARTY THAN IT WAS A VACATION FOR THEM.
AND IT'S REALLY, TRULY CHARACTERISTICALLY DIFFERENT.
WELL, AND TO YOUR POINT, COUNCILOR FURMAN, YOU KNOW, WHO KNOWS WHAT THE DISCUSSION BEHIND THE SCENES IS.
I KNEW WHEN WE POINTED OUT THE TWO WEDDING VENUES THAT WE HAD WHO WERE REALLY PRETTY BLATANTLY OFFERING, WELL, WE'LL DO YOUR CATERING, WE'LL PLAN YOUR WEDDING FOR YOU.
THIS WAS OPERATING AS A BUSINESS, BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING BEHIND THE SCENES.
UM, WITH THE SHORT TERM RENTALS, IT JUST KIND OF, OOPS, HAPPENED TO HAVE A WEDDING.
BRIAN CAUGHT TWO ADDITIONAL PROPERTIES IN THE LAST WEEK WHO JUST HAPPENED TO PUT, UM, GREAT PLACE FOR A WEDDING.
AND ALL YOUR GUESTS, UM, JUST A CASUAL MENTION, NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT, BUT, UM, THERE ARE LOTS OF WEBSITES OUT THERE, AS BRIAN HAS BEEN TRACKING DOWN ONE OF THE MORE ELUSIVE OF THE TWO PROPERTIES THAT WE IDENTIFIED.
HE'S FOUND A LOT OF SEDONA WEDDING VENUES, NOT JUST SHORT-TERM RENTAL, BUT THINGS THAT ARE PROMOTING WEDDINGS IN SEDONA.
UM, THERE'S INSTAGRAM PAGES, THERE'S SEPARATE WEBSITES.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, WE MAY BE LATE TO THE PARTY IN TERMS OF CATCHING THIS, BUT, UM, IT, IT, IT CERTAINLY HAS A POTENTIAL TO CONTINUE TO GROW.
AND YOU KNOW, HOW MANY OF US HAVE KIND OF SAID, YEAH, JUST GO AHEAD AND DO IT.
DON'T TELL ME, I DON'T WANNA KNOW.
AND THAT'S A SHORT STEP TO, WELL, YEAH, GO AHEAD AND DO IT.
YOU KNOW, I KNOW SOMEBODY WHO CAN GIVE ME A KICKBACK WHO CAN DO THIS FOR YOU.
AND KURT'S BEEN REALLY HELPFUL, UM, IN HELPING US KIND OF MAP THIS OUT.
AND WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT EVENTS, HIS COMMENT WAS, SHORT-TERM RENTALS ARE FOR EATING AND SLEEPING.
YOU KNOW, YOU'RE THERE TO BE IN THE PROPERTY AND NOT HAVE AN EVENT AT THE PROPERTY.
I, I UNDERSTAND WHAT COUNCIL WANTS TO BALANCE IN TERMS OF IMPACT ON RESIDENTS AND, AND THIS OPPORTUNITY AND I RESPECT THIS DISCUSSION.
I THINK IT'S REALLY A DIFFICULT DISCUSSION.
AND I WILL BE CANDID WITH YOU THAT I'M THINKING IN TERMS OF PROACTIVELY, UM, AND THAT THERE ARE PROBABLY MORE OOPSES THAN WE
[01:10:01]
KNOW, BUT THERE'S BEEN A FEW LISTINGS NOW THAT WE'VE CAUGHT AND, AND THERE'S ANOTHER VENUE THAT'S OPERATING IN SEDONA THAT'S VERY BLATANTLY, CLEARLY SAYING THAT THEY'RE A WEDDING VENUE AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE A BIG THING TO TACKLE.UM, SO AGAIN, I GO BACK TO IMPLIED PERMISSION AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT CAN WE DO TO EFFECTIVELY LAY THINGS OUT AND, AND NOT JUST IMPLY THAT WE ARE EASY ON THIS AND MAYBE I'M BEING LAZY 'CAUSE I DON'T WANNA CHASE DOWN A DOZEN WEDDING VENUES IN THE FUTURE.
UM, AND I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS, BUT, BUT I BELIEVE YOU'RE ASKING IMPORTANT QUESTIONS AND, AND THAT MAY NOT BE AN EASY BALANCING THE, UM, VENUES THAT YOU HAVE HAD COMPLAINTS ABOUT NOW AND THE ONES THAT YOU'VE SEEN ADVERTISING.
DO YOU HAVE AN IDEA THOUGH, OF HOW LARGE THESE EVENTS ARE IN TERMS OF ATTENDANCE ROUGHLY? I'M JUST LOOKING FOR A BIG ESTIMATE.
ARE THESE LIKE A HUNDRED PEOPLE ATTENDING? ARE THEY 50 PEOPLE? ARE THEY 10 PEOPLE? OR THE ONE, THE ONE REALLY BIG VENUE, UM, WAS OVER ON BACK AND BEYOND MM-HMM
AND THEY WERE EASILY 70 TO 80 PERSON WEDDINGS.
THEY HAD SHUTTLES COMING IN AND THINGS BUST IN.
UM, THE OTHER VENUE IS A SMALL VENUE AND THEY WERE HAVING MICRO WEDDINGS, BUT THEY WERE ALSO SELLING ALL THESE SERVICES.
SO VIOLATING CODE BECAUSE THEY WERE OPERATING AS A BUSINESS.
UM, I HAD SOMEONE A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, SAY WE WERE HAVING, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A WEDDING IN SEPTEMBER AND IT WILL BE A SMALL WEDDING, ONLY 40 PEOPLE, AND IT WAS AT THEIR HOUSE IN SEDONA.
UM, AND 40 PEOPLE MIGHT, I HAD A 40 PERSON WEDDING.
IT SEEMS LIKE A SMALL WEDDING EXCEPT WHEN IT'S IN YOUR NEIGHBOR'S YARD.
UM, AND SO IT, I WOULD SAY IT'S ALL DIFFERENT, BUT EASILY, EASILY WITH WEDDINGS.
IT CAN BE A COUPLE DOZEN PEOPLE.
AND WE HAVE AN UPTICK IN REPORTING OF REALLY FRUSTRATED NEIGHBORS WHO ARE TALKING.
I JUST SPENT PROBABLY AN HOUR AND A HALF TRYING TO COMPOSE AN EMAIL TO A RESIDENT WHO REALLY FEELS LIKE THE CITY'S DOING NOTHING ABOUT LARGE GROUPS AT SHORT TERM RENTALS AND ALL THE IMPACTS.
AND, UM, TRYING TO OFFER RESPECT FOR THEIR EXPERIENCE, TRYING TO KIND OF REVISIT THE RESOURCES WE DO HAVE THAT WE CAN ACT ON AND OUTLINE THE WAYS THAT THEY CAN USE THE RESOURCES WE HAVE MOST EFFECTIVELY.
UM, AND I HAVE HEARD FROM MULTIPLE SOURCES THAT THERE ARE A LARGE NUMBER OF FRUSTRATED RESIDENTS AND MANY OF THEM HAVE STOPPED USING THE HOTLINE BECAUSE THEY DON'T FEEL LIKE THE CITY'S EFFECTIVE.
UM, SO THERE'S, WE'RE WE'RE BALANCING THE RESIDENT EXPERIENCE IN TERMS OF THE RESIDENT'S RIGHTS TO DO WHAT IS APPROPRIATE WITH THEIR OWN HOMES.
AND THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE, WE'RE BALANCING THE RESIDENTS EXPERIENCE OF HOW WE REGULATE SHORT-TERM RENTALS AND HOW RESIDENTS ARE IMPACTED BY THEIR NEIGHBORING SHORT-TERM RENTALS.
UM, AND I, I HAVE FELT LIKE THERE ARE SOME LIMITS, WE'RE LIMITED BY WHAT WE CAN DO.
WE, WE RESPOND THROUGH CODE ENFORCEMENT, SHORT TERM RENTAL CODE, CITY CODE, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
UM, BUT I KNOW THAT AT TIMES THERE'S A PERCEPTION BY RESIDENTS THAT THE'S NOT MUCH THE CITY DOES.
AND I THINK THE MOTIVATION BEHIND MY DRIVE FOR CLARITY AROUND WEDDINGS IS THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DEMONSTRATE TO RESIDENTS WHO ARE IMPACTED BY THESE EVENTS, THAT, THAT WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO RECOGNIZE THAT THEY'RE IMPACTED.
AND I WASN'T NECESSARILY THINKING OF WHAT YOU ARE ALL TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF RESIDENT RIGHTS TO HAVE EVENTS.
AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WORKS BETWEEN RESIDENT NEIGHBORS.
YOU KNOW, IF MY NEIGHBOR JOHN HAS A WEDDING AT HIS HOUSE AND HE'S A RESIDENT AND I'M A RESIDENT, UM, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW IF IT HAS THE SAME LEVEL OF IMPACT.
UM, I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT AS MY NEIGHBOR, IF I HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH JOHN, THAT HE'S GONNA INFORM ME AND MAYBE INVITE ME OVER FOR CAKE OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER.
[01:15:01]
THERESA? OKAY.I'M GONNA OPEN THE PUBLIC FORUM ONE CARD.
MY NAME IS TIM PERRY AND I LIVE IN SEDONA.
YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING TO REFLECT ON PROBABLY HOW, ON HOW PROBABLY THE TWO MOST SIGNIFICANT ITEMS OF THIS AGENDA ITEM TONIGHT ARE RELATED BY ONE FACTOR.
AND THAT SHARED FACTOR IS COUNSEL'S HISTORY OF BAD BEHAVIOR IN THE SAME FASHION.
LET'S BEGIN WITH, UH, THE ADJUSTMENT OF THE LBC TO CONFORM TO THE HB 2, 4, 4 7 UPDATES.
NOW, WHY DID THE LEGISLATURE PASS THIS BILL THAT'S CAUSED SO MUCH ANGST IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT? WELL, IT'S BECAUSE LOCAL GOVERNMENT WAS DRAGGING ITS FEET AND NOT APPROVING PROJECTS.
HAD LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ACROSS SEDONA ACTED RESPONSIBLY, HIRED THE CORRECT STAFF, POINTED THE CORRECT PEOPLE TO COMMISSIONS AND NOT HELD UP PROJECTS.
YOU WOULDN'T HAVE THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, BUT NOW YOU DO.
THERE SEEMS TO BE A TREND GOING ON THROUGHOUT THIS STATE WHEREBY INDIVIDUALS FROM THE EAST OR THE WEST COAST RETIRE TO SMALL TOWNS IN ARIZONA, GET THEMSELVES INVOLVED IN GOVERNMENT, AND THEN START TRYING TO TURN THE TOWNS THEY'RE NOW LIVING IN INTO THE BIG CITY DUMPS THAT THEY CAME FROM.
FORTUNATELY, WE STILL HAVE A FEW PEOPLE IN THE LEGISLATURE WHO IT SEEMS LIKE ARE TRYING TO KEEP RURAL ARIZONA RURAL.
THE OTHER IMPORTANT TOPIC IN THIS SET OF UPDATES IS THE ONE THAT COUNCIL HAS JUST BEEN DISCUSSING, WHICH IS THE FACT THAT YOU ARE SO DETERMINED TO BAN STR SO BIGOTED AGAINST ST THAT IT WAS IN FACT THIS ATTITUDE THAT BROUGHT ON THE MUCH HATED SB 1350 IN THE FIRST PLACE.
SEDONA, LIKE OTHER PLACES, HAD A TOTAL BAN ON STR, IT DEPRIVED PEOPLE OF THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS.
IT STOLE FROM THEM, IT STOLE FROM ITS RESIDENTS.
AND THE LEGISLATURE SAID, NO, YOU CAN'T DO THIS.
AND NOW THE SEDONA CITY COUNCIL IS MAD BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURE TOLD THEM YOU CAN'T STEAL FROM PEOPLE.
AND NOW THEY'RE TO THE POINT WHERE THEY'RE CONSIDERING WHAT EVEN SOME MEMBERS OF THIS COUNCIL ADMIT ARE ABSOLUTELY ASININE SOVIET STYLE JOYLESS REGULATIONS TO SAY YOU CAN'T EVEN HAVE A PARTY IN YOUR HOME IF YOU LIVE HERE WITHOUT THE GRACIOUS PERMISSION OF THE CITY OF SEDONA GOVERNMENT.
ASININE IS FAR TOO WEAK A WORD.
IF YOU GUYS LEARNED TO START BEHAVING PROPERLY IN THE FIRST PLACE, YOU WOULDN'T END UP IN SITUATIONS LIKE THIS.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS? KATHY? I KNOW YOU DID.
DO YOU WANNA DO NOTIFICATION FIRST? OKAY.
UM, I, I BELIEVE THAT WE ARE BEING THAT THE TAKING AWAY THE PUBLIC'S RIGHT FOR COMMENT IS EGREGIOUS AND THAT THAT'S REALLY WHAT THE STATE LEGISLATURE'S TRYING TO DO TO US.
ONE OF THE FEW THINGS WE CAN DO, WE HAVE ALWAYS HAVE THESE, UM, QUANDARIES WHERE WE ARE TRYING TO BALANCE SOMETHING THAT IS, THAT IS AFFECTING OUR CITIZENS COMING FROM ANOTHER BODY, WHETHER IT'S THE STATE LEGISLATURE, THE CORPORATION COMMISSION, WHATEVER.
WE TRY TO DO WHAT WE CAN TO MITIGATE A A IMPACT.
LOSING THE RIGHT TO FOR, FOR PUBLIC COMMENT, I THINK INCREASES OUR RESPONSIBILITY FOR PUBLIC NOTIFICATION BECAUSE WE HAVE TO AT LEAST MAKE SURE THAT SOMEBODY HAS IN THOSE COMMENT, DON'T FORGET WHAT'S IN THOSE NOTIFICATIONS.
HERE'S WHO THE PROJECT DEVELOPMENT CONTACT IS, HERE'S THE PHONE NUMBER FOR THE ATTORNEY OR THE ENGINEER.
I MEAN, USUALLY WE JUST GOT A COMMENT, UM, AN OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT LETTER ON SOMETHING CLOSE BY TO PROPERTY THAT, UM, I AM AWARE OF THAT INFORMATION BY BEING SENT OUT.
IT GIVES PEOPLE AN OPPORTUNITY TO AT LEAST KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.
UM, THEY'RE NOT GONNA SEE A PUBLIC HEARING NOTICE BECAUSE THERE'S NO PUBLIC HEARING.
I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO DO THIS.
I SUPPORT THIS INCREASE, UH, OF THE, TO THE 600 FEET.
I WOULD ENTERTAIN IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO MAYBE REDUCE THAT DOWN, UH, A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF THE COST FACTOR.
BUT ACTUALLY THE QUOTE WAS, UM, IT'S NOT THAT, IT'S WHAT, I'M TRYING TO THINK WHAT THE QUOTE WAS IN THERE.
A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS AT THE MOST PER YEAR.
A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS AT THE MOST PER YEAR.
AND THIS IS THE WAY THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT AT LEAST OUR RESIDENTS HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY
[01:20:01]
TO KNOW ABOUT A PROJECT AND HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ENTER COMMENTS, GET IN TOUCH WITH THE CITY IF THEY WANT TO, WHATEVER IT IS, BECAUSE THERE'S NO OTHER VENUE FOR THEM AT THIS POINT BECAUSE THE STATE IS STRIPPING US OF THAT VENUE.I WANNA POINT OUT AS WELL, I'VE ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT THE 300 FEET WAS TOO SMALL.
UM, THERE IS A PROPERTY WHERE, OKAY, I'M GOING TO BE SPECIFIC IN THIS EXAMPLE.
JOHN VNI HAS AN APPLICATION, UH, UNDER UNDERWAY.
THERE'S A 300 FOOT NOTICE RADIUS.
THAT 300 FEET FOOT NOTICE RADIUS MEANT THAT A PROPERTY OWNER GOT NOTICE OF SOMETHING BECAUSE THE CORNER OF HER.
BUT THAT'S A TOWN HOME WITHIN A COMMUNITY OF 66 HOMES.
ONE PROPERTY OWNER WHO WAS OUT OF THE COUNTRY AND ONLY JUST RECENTLY GOT THIS NOTICE AND, AND BROUGHT IT TO THE HO A'S ATTENTION HOA WOULD NOT HAVE RECEIVED NOTICE.
DID NOT RECEIVE NOTICE, AND NO OTHER NEIGHBORS, EVEN THOUGH THE, UM, THE ROAD THAT IS COMMONLY SHARED, THAT IS GONNA BE THE EXIT.
EVERYBODY'S GONNA BE IMPACTED THERE BECAUSE ONE AND ONE PERSON OUTTA 66 IN THE SAME DEVELOPMENT GOT A NOTICE OF THAT BECAUSE 300 FEET, I JUST THINK THAT THAT'S NOT ADEQUATE.
AND FOR THE COST PRICE ON THIS INCREASING THIS TO 600 FEET, WHICH THE NUMBERS QUADRUPLE THE NOTIFICATION AREA, BUT IT'S STILL A VERY SMALL PRICE TO PAY FOR THAT.
I THINK THAT THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DO TO MITIGATE THE PROBLEM THAT HAS NOW BEEN FOISTED UPON US FROM THE STATE.
COUNCILOR KINSELLA, I CAN PROBABLY AGREE WITH YOU, BUT NOT NECESSARILY FOR THE SAME MINDSET.
LIKE, UM, YOU KNOW, I ASKED CARRIE, WHAT PROBLEM ARE WE TRYING TO FIX? AND YOU JUST ANSWERED THE QUESTION OF, YOU KNOW, HERE'S ONE PARTIC PARTICULAR PROJECT WHERE THE 300 FEET ONLY PULLED IN, YOU KNOW, ONE AFFECTED PARTY.
SO THAT, THAT ANSWERS MY QUESTION AND THAT I CAN SUPPORT THE COST PARTS NOT, NOT BEEN A FACTOR TO ME BECAUSE IT IS RELATIVELY NEGLIGIBLE IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF OUR BUDGET.
THE PART I GUESS I WOULD SAY I DON'T AGREE WITH IS, IS THAT BECAUSE OF WHAT THE STATE LEGISLATURE DID WITH 2 4, 4 7, THAT IN IT ITSELF DOESN'T CAUSE ME TO SAY, OH, WE SHOULD INCREASE OUR, UH, RADIUS BECAUSE OF THAT.
I THINK WE NEED TO INCREASINGLY TRY TO DO A BETTER JOB OF JUST MAKING OUR RESIDENTS AWARE OF PROJECTS ANYWAYS.
AND NOT THAT THEY CAN'T FIND OUT ABOUT THEM NOW, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO WORK ON HOW DO WE MAKE THAT EASIER FOR THEM TO KNOW OR TO BE MADE KNOWN, UM, THROUGH ELECTRONIC MEANS IDEALLY.
SO, UM, I CAN SUPPORT THE, THE RADIUS PIECE OUT OF THIS.
AND THEN MAYOR BROUGHT UP THE, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE CITY, UM, NOTIFICATION I THINK FOR PROJECTS THAT WE INITIATE.
YEAH, THAT PROBABLY IS WORTHWHILE.
BUT I LIKE THE CLARIFICATION FROM KURT THAT OKAY, WE'RE DOING THAT VOLUNTARILY, SO LET'S KEEP IT SIMPLE AND JUST USE THE LESS EXPENSIVE MAILING METHODS WHERE IT'S JUST GOING STRICTLY TO THE LOCAL ADDRESS SINCE WE'RE DOING SOMETHING THAT'S ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT'S CALLED FOR ANYWAYS.
SO AT LEAST IN TERMS OF THE, UM, NOTIFICATION STUFF, THAT'S WHERE I'M AT ON THAT PIECE.
YEAH, I, I CAN BE SUPPORTIVE OF, OF CHANGE IN THE RADIUS AS WELL.
I'M ON BOARD WITH VICE MAYOR ABOUT, UH, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MOVE TO A A A DIFFERENT OTHER AND OTHER THAN MAILING APPROACH, AND MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE START TO PUT ON OUR LOBBYING LIST THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THERE'S A CHANGE IN THE STATE LAW THAT WE NEED TO DO, BUT CLEARLY, UH, I THINK THAT WE, WE ALL COULD, UH, BENEFIT FROM, UH, LOWER BURDEN IN A LOWER FEES OF THIS THING.
UH, I AM INTRIGUED BY COUNCILLOR F'S IDEA OF, UH, THE DOLLAR FINE.
I THOUGHT THAT WAS A PRETTY INTERESTING, UH, ELEMENT OF IT.
I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT SOMEWHERE.
UM, THE CITY PROJECT REVIEW, IF IT'S A CITY PROJECT AND WE WANNA DO AN ENHANCED REVIEW LEVEL, DOES THAT NEED TO GO IN THE LDC SINCE IT'S REALLY JUST OUR, OUR CHOICE, IT DOESN'T NEED TO GO IN THE LDC.
WE COULD JUST ADOPT THAT AS OUR OWN POLICY, OUR OWN PROCESS.
COUNCIL FIRM, IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE SPELLED OUT IN IN THE LDC.
IT CAN BE A, A POLICY DECISION.
[01:25:06]
YOU KNOW, THAT WHAT O OVERALL THE THING I'M WORRIED ABOUT IS JUST LIKE WHEN SDRS WERE APPROVED BY THE STATE LEGISLATURE, IT WAS ALL GONNA WORK FINE.SO THIS IS A NEW CHANGE APPROVED BY THE STATE LEGISLATURE AND I'M NOT CLEAR THAT IT'S GONNA WORK FINE YET EITHER.
AND SO I'VE BEEN STRUGGLING WITH HOW WE STILL MAINTAIN SOME LEVEL OF COMMUNICATION WITH OUR RESIDENTS ABOUT PROJECTS I WOULD ACTUALLY LIKE TO SEE BECAUSE OF THIS CHANGE.
BUT ALSO NOT JUST BECAUSE OF THIS CHANGE COME THE VICE MAYOR, UH, ALLUDED TO AS WELL.
I'D LIKE TO SEE SOME ENHANCED REPORTING FROM STAFF TO COUNCIL AND TO THE PUBLIC ABOUT PROJECTS.
ESPECIALLY NOW IN THE NEW PROCESS.
WE'VE GOT THE, THE, UH, UH, STAFF APPROVING THINGS ON THEIR OWN, BUT PERHAPS THAT CAN BE SOMEHOW REPORTED TO US AND TO THE PUBLIC IN AN ENHANCED WAY.
BUT I'M MORE INTERESTED OR INTERESTED IN JUST MORE BEYOND THAT IS GENERALLY IT'S DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND THE STATUS OF THINGS.
YOU GOTTA GO TO A PROJECT SITE AND THEN DIG INTO A PROJECT AND YOU MAY OR MAY NOT KNOW WHAT CHANGES HAVE OCCURRED IN THE LAST TIME SINCE YOU'VE LOOKED AT IT.
AND SO I THINK THAT THERE'S A, A BETTER WAY SOMEHOW USING THE GIS SO YOU KNOW, WHAT PROJECTS ARE NEAR YOU AND YOU MAY DIG IN THERE A LITTLE BIT BETTER.
SOMETHING, I THINK THERE'S A GENERAL LEVEL OF ENHANCED REPORTING ON PROJECTS I'D LIKE TO SEE.
BUT SPECIFICALLY IN THIS IDEA, BECAUSE THE DIRECTOR IS NOW GOING TO BE MAKING MORE DECISIONS, SOME, UH, ENHANCED REPORTING ON THAT AS WELL, MELISSA, AND THEN DEREK.
SO SOMETHING WE HAVEN'T DISCUSSED, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE I'VE READ THROUGHOUT ALL OF YEARS THAT TIMEFRAMES HAVE GOTTEN VERY SPECIFIC AND THEY'RE FAIRLY SHORT.
LIKE YOU HAVE 15 DAYS TO RESPOND AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT I'VE READ IN HERE, WHICH IS PART OF THEIR WHOLE GET IT THROUGH FASTER KIND OF, OF MENTALITY.
UM, THE REASON I'M, I'M BRINGING THAT UP IS THAT, UH, WHEN YOU HAVE THOSE SHORT TIME PERIODS THAT, YOU KNOW, STAFF HAS TO WORK UNDER NOW UNDER THESE CONSTRAINTS, GETTING THOSE MAILINGS OUT CAN BE TRICKIER, RIGHT? SO I UNDERSTAND WHY WE DO, UM, USPS, WHY WE DO TRADITIONAL SNAIL MAIL.
NOT EVERYONE HAS EMAIL ADDRESSES OR, UM, ANYTHING THAT WE CAN REACH DIGITALLY, BUT IT WOULD BE NICE TO SORT OF SEE SOMETHING HERE AROUND SORT OF DIGITAL ENHANCEMENT BECAUSE A LOT OF US JUST DON'T LOOK AT OUR MAILBOX MAIL VERY OFTEN.
WE JUST SAY, OKAY, LET'S PUT THAT IN RECYCLING, RIGHT? SO WE'VE GOT TWO DIFFERENT APPROACHES TO WHAT KIND OF MAIL AND HOW YOU, YOU GET TO IT.
SO I MEAN, I THINK WE NEED TO THINK THAT THROUGH, UM, ESPECIALLY IF WE ARE STARTING TO DO THE CHANGING OF THE GUARD AND SORT OF GET THE YOUNGER GENERATIONS IN.
THEY'RE LESS ABOUT THE PHYSICAL MAIL.
THEY CAN BE MORE ABOUT THE NON-PHYSICAL, THE DIGITAL MAIL.
SO, UM, OR HOWEVER IT IS WE'RE GOING TO GET THE MESSAGE OUT THERE.
I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE CARRIE'S GONNA DO TIKTOKS.
I DON'T KNOW
UM, SHE WAS ALREADY THINKING ABOUT THAT, WEREN'T YOU? NO.
BUT YEAH, WE CAN WORK WITH, UM, THE COMMUNICATIONS TEAM AND DO MORE NOTIFICATIONS THAT WAY.
UM, OBVIOUSLY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE SENDING IN, WE, THE COUNTY HAS MAILING ADDRESSES FOR P EVERYBODY, THERE'S NO MASTER DATABASE OF EVERYONE'S EMAIL ADDRESS IN THE SAME WAY.
UM, AND SO OFTENTIMES PEOPLE, THEY GET NOTIFIED OF A PROJECT ONCE THEY EMAIL US, THEN WE START TO CREATE A MAILING LIST FOR A CERTAIN PROJECT AND WE'LL ADD ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO BE ADDED TO THOSE.
BUT JUST HAVING THAT AS THE INITIAL POINT OF CONTACT IS DIFFICULT 'CAUSE THERE'S NOT YEAH.
BUT YOU JUST HAVE TO GET THE WORD OUT THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO SUBSCRIBE TO ALL THE NEWSLETTERS THAT YOU SEE IN ORDER FOR THEM TO SUBSCRIBE TO THINGS THAT WOULD BE CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.
FOR THEM TO UNDERSTAND IS HAPPENING IN THE CITY AND MAYBE RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO THEM OR BEHIND THEM.
SO I, I'M SURE BRILLIANT COMMUNICATIONS TEAM WILL FIGURE IT OUT.
BUT I JUST WANT TO SORT OF POINT OUT THAT, UM, NOT ALL OF US RESPECT OUR PAPER MAIL THE WAY WE USED TO, UM, SHALL WE SAY.
UH, OTHERWISE I, I'M IN SUPPORT OF, OF, YOU KNOW, THE RADIUS FOR SURE.
I THINK IT'S AS WE GET, AS WE GET DIFFERENT KINDS OF PROJECTS COMING THROUGH.
'CAUSE THEY'RE NOT ALL EMPTY SPACES OF LAND ANYMORE, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE START TO GET ADUS AND ALL THESE OTHER THINGS COMING IN, PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW THAT THIS IS
[01:30:01]
HAPPENING LITERALLY IN THEIR BACKYARD OR NEXT TO THEM.SO WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE DO THAT AND MAKE SURE IT'S A BIG ENOUGH RADIUS.
BECAUSE IF THAT A DU TURNS INTO A SHORT TERM RENTAL, THERE'LL BE MORE CARS ON THEIR STREET.
SORT OF ALL OF THOSE SORTS OF THINGS THAT JUST IMPACT YOUR DAILY LIFE.
UM, AND YOU KNOW, HOW YOU THINK ABOUT YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, SHALL WE SAY.
SO, UM, I WOULD REALLY LIKE FOR US TO HAVE THAT BROADER EXPANSION AS WELL.
UM, I THINK THAT, AND AS FAR AS THE WHOLE STR, YOU KNOW, EVENTS THING IS CONCERNED, HONESTLY, I'M HEARING FROM MORE AND MORE PEOPLE THAT ST ARE STARTING TO HOLD RETREATS, RIGHT? AND, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE HIRING, UM, MASSAGE THERAPISTS AND THEY'RE HIRING ALL THESE, YOU KNOW, DRUM CIRCLE PEOPLE TO SORT OF COME INTO THAT FACILITY.
SO I THINK THERE HAS TO BE A WAY FOR US TO TRY TO ALLOW CODE ENFORCEMENT TO HAVE AN EASIER WAY OF BEING PERMITTED TO SAY, THIS IS IN VIOLATION OF YOUR HAVING A SHORT-TERM RENTAL LICENSE.
SO I UNDERSTAND IT MAKES IT COMPLICATED FOR OUR RESIDENTS AND, AND, YOU KNOW, UM, I'M NOT, I WISH I COULD GO TO THE LEGISLATURE AND JUST MAKE THEM CHANGE THINGS, BUT I'M, I'M UNABLE TO DO THAT.
SO, UM, I JUST, I JUST FEEL LIKE WHATEVER HOPE WE CAN PROVIDE CODE ENFORCEMENT WITH THE SHORT TERM RENTALS HERE IS PROBABLY A GOOD THING FOR US TO DO.
DEREK, I SUPPORT THE EXTENSION OF THE RADIUS AND THE, UH, CITYWIDE MAILINGS FOR CITY INITIATED PROJECTS.
UM, THE BIGGER THING FOR ME ON THE CI CITY INITIATED PROJECTS, IF, AND KURT CORRECT ME IF I MISUNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU SAID, WE CAN, WE AS THE CITY CAN STILL TAKE OUR PROJECTS THROUGH THE EXISTING PROCESS, CORRECT? WELL, SO, SO WE ARE AMENDING THE EXISTING PROCESS AND IT'S, IT'S KIND OF BEING AMENDED OUT.
BUT AS A POLICY DECISION, YOU COULD DIRECT ANY CITY PROJECT TO STILL GO TO P AND Z FOR SOME TYPE OF, UH, YEAH.
AT LEAST A PUBLIC CONVERSATION.
I MEAN, I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN PUTTING THAT IN AN ORDINANCE THAT THE CITY IS GONNA CONTINUE TO, I MEAN, IF, IF WE ARE INTERESTED IN GOING THROUGH P AND Z AND GETTING PUBLIC INPUT AND PUBLIC NOTIFICATION, I THINK THAT WE AS THE CITY SHOULD AT LEAST, SO YOU JUST WANNA DEFINE WHICH CITY PROJECTS? 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, MOST DON'T, I MEAN, NOT EVERYTHING P BUT I MEAN SOMETHING THAT WOULD GO BEFORE P AND Z NOW.
YEAH, LIKE A-C-U-P-I WOULD, IF IT'S CITY INITIATED, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT STILL GO THROUGH P AND Z AND STILL GO THROUGH THE EXISTING PROCESS.
SO A CUP WILL ALWAYS, WILL STILL GO TO P AND Z, UM, DESIGN REVIEW, THE CITY DOESN'T REALLY DO SUBDIVISIONS.
AND SO IT WOULD BE DESIGN OF BUILDINGS THAT THE CITY WANTS TO BUILD, RIGHT? OKAY.
BUT IF WE HAVE THE OPTION TO KEEP THE EXISTING FRAMEWORK FOR CITY PROJECTS, I THINK WE SHOULD DO IT.
IF THE LEGISLATURE HASN'T TOLD US WE CAN'T, THEN WE SHOULD KEEP THAT, UM, ON THE PERMITS.
UM, OBVIOUSLY I FEEL DIFFERENTLY ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO SHORT TERM RENTALS.
I THINK WE DO WHAT WE CAN TO PREVENT EVENTS FROM BEING HELD THERE.
UM, BUT I THINK WHAT SOMEONE DOES IN THE PRIVACY OF THEIR OWN HOME, IF THEY WANT TO HAVE A HUNDRED FRIENDS OVER FOR A PARTY FOR OUR WEDDING, FOR WHATEVER, I DON'T THINK IT'S THE CITY'S BUSINESS TO BE ISSUING OR NOT ISSUING PERMITS.
WE HAVE NOISE ORDINANCES, WE HAVE PARKING ORDINANCES.
IF WHATEVER THIS EVENT IS IS CREATING PROBLEMS FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THERE ARE STILL THINGS IN EXISTENCE THAT CAN BE USED TO, TO DEAL WITH THAT.
I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE A PERMIT PROCESS FOR SOMEONE.
YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU SAID YOU HAD EIGHT PEOPLE AT A WEDDING? ACTUALLY IT'S, I THINK IT WAS SEVEN.
SO, YEAH, I MEAN, IF, IF REDUCING THE FINE TO A DOLLAR IS WHAT IT TAKES TO MAINTAIN THE ABILITY TO REGULATE SHORT-TERM RENTALS, BUT THEN FREE UP OUR RESIDENTS TO USE THEIR PROPERTIES.
SO, SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, THE WEDDINGS HAS BEEN BANNED OR REQUIRED A TEMPORARY USE PERMIT FOR SEVERAL YEARS.
NO, I GET THAT, BUT I DON'T, I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT.
BUT I MEAN, JUST 'CAUSE IT'S BEEN ON THE BOOKS FOR A LONG TIME DOESN'T MEAN NO, NO, I'M JUST YEAH, NO, NO, NO.
I KNOW, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT I THINK SHOULDN'T BE IF YEAH.
IF I MIGHT RESPOND JUST A COUPLE OF THOSE BRIEFLY.
SO PARKING, WE DON'T PROHIBIT PARKING ON STREETS.
A LOT OF STREETS ARE ALLOWED TO PUBLICLY PARK ON.
AND SO THEY DO BLOCK UP WHOLE NEIGHBORHOODS SOMETIMES.
AND SO THAT THE, THIS IS THE WAY TO DEAL WITH PARKING.
OTHERWISE, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU TELL, YOU KNOW, HOMEOWNERS, THEY CAN'T USE THE STREET IN FRONT OF THEIR HOUSE TO PARK ON.
UM, AND SO I'M NOT SURE IF THAT ONE WORKS.
IT SOUNDS ALL GOOD UNTIL THERE'S
[01:35:01]
A HOMEOWNER WHO DECIDES THEY WANNA JUST TURN THEIR HOME INTO A SHORT, OR NOT A SHORT-TERM, AN EVENT VENUE.NOW THEY CAN HAVE AS MANY WEDDINGS AS THEY WANT THERE AND JUST GET AWAY WITH A DOLLAR.
SO THERE'S, THERE'S HOMEOWNERS THAT DON'T FOLLOW THE REGULATIONS AS WELL AS SHORT TERM RENTAL OPERATORS.
SO WHAT I'M HEARING IS OVERALL SUPPORT FOR THE 600 FEET NOTICE REQUIREMENT.
AND, AND IF WE CAN, IF WE'RE ON THAT ONE, THEN WHAT I WOULD DO IS SUGGEST THAT WE LEAVE THAT ALONE, THE WITHIN 300 FEET, UM, OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY, AND THEN WE ADD IN, UM, AND TO ALL PROPERTY ADDRESSES WITHIN 300 AND 600 FEET.
SO THE, YOU'RE WE'RE GONNA STILL SEND IT TO THE PROPERTY OWNERS TO THE FIRST 300 AND THEN JUST TO PROPERTY ADDRESSES WITHIN 300 AND 600 FEET.
NO, THAT'S NOT, NO, I'M HEARING THAT PEOPLE WANT ALL PROPERTY OWNERS 600 FEET.
WELL, YOU WERE JUST SAYING, I THINK APPLIED TO THE CITY, THE CITYWIDE RIGHT MAILING FOR ON THE CITY SPONSOR PROJECT.
SO THE ONE BELOW, AND IT SHOULDN'T SAY FIRST CLASS MAIL BECAUSE BULK MAIL IS HOW YOU DO IT.
AND THAT'S NOT FIRST CLASS MAIL.
SO WHEN YOU SENT THE SECOND ONE AGAIN YES.
SO THE FIRST ONE YOU DO WANT FIRST CLASS MAIL, WE WANT 600 YES.
AND THE SECOND ONE WOULD NOT BE FIRST CLASS MAIL, IT WOULD BE BULK MAIL FOR THE SECOND ONE.
YOU WANT THAT TO ALL ADDRESSES, NOT ALL PROPERTY OWNERS.
SO IF WE SAY IN ADDITION TO THE NOTICING REQUIREMENTS OF THAT ABOVE IT, SO IN ADDITION TO THE 600 FEET MM-HMM
UM, WHATEVER THAT ONE ABOVE, I'LL FIGURE IT OUT LATER.
UM, MAIL NOTICE SHALL BE SENT, WE DELETE THE FIRST CLASS MAIL.
I THINK IT SHOULD JUST BE SENT CORRECT.
ALL ADDRESSES WITHIN CITY LIMITS.
SO I THINK WE HAVE AGREEMENT ON THAT.
SO NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT THE, UH, THE ONE THAT WE MAY NOT HAVE AGREEMENT ON WEDDINGS, THE EXTENSION OF OR EXPANSION OF THE DEFINITIONS AND WHETHER WE WANNA REMOVE WEDDINGS THAT HAVE BEEN IN THERE.
UH, 'CAUSE WHAT P AND Z DID WAS TO ADD WEDDING RELATED RECEPTIONS.
NO, THEY WERE, WEDDING RECEPTIONS WAS ALREADY THERE TOO.
THEY ADDED NO AND OR OTHER WEDDING RELATED EVENTS.
WEDDING RECEPTIONS WAS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF AND TNC ADDED OKAY.
I HAVE A THOUGHT ABOUT, UH, KURT'S UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE ON THE DOLLAR.
SO DOLLAR FINE ON THE FIRST INSTANCE.
A HUNDRED ON THE SECOND THOUSAND ON THE THIRD, 10,000 ON THE FOURTH.
I MEAN, YOU CAN, WE'RE LIMITED 2,500 PER OFFENSE, BUT OKAY, LET'S TRY WE, SO WE, WE COULD WELL THAT'S LIMITED FOR BY THE SHORT TERM RENTAL LAW.
UH, JUST OVERALL CIVIL OFFENSES WERE LIMITED TO $2,500 PER OFFENSE ON ANY CIVIL VIOLATION.
BUT THE POINT IS YOU COULD TURN IT INTO A CRIMINAL, BUT, BUT MAKING IT ESCALATED SPEAKS TO YOUR UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE OF A RESIDENT TURNING THEIR HOME INTO A, UH, A WEDDING VENUE.
SO THEY GET, THEY GET ONE FREE PASS AND THEN IT STARTS GETTING EXPENSIVE.
SO I THINK THE BUSINESS, I THINK THE PREFERENCE THEN WOULD BE TO, AT LEAST FOR ME, WOULD BE TO HAVE IT BE A WARNING THE FIRST TIME, UM, FOR RESIDENTS, FOR, FOR VIOLATIONS IN A RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICT, AND THEN LEAVE IT OPEN AFTERWARDS.
SO IT COULD BE UP, UP TO 2,500 THEREAFTER.
THAT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT COSTS PROCESS.
BUT NOW WE'RE RELYING ON WHAT THE CITY JUDGE.
I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH WHETHER HE'S GONNA TAKE IT SERIOUS OR NOT.
I MEAN, WHY WOULDN'T WE SPELL IT OUT WITH AN ESCALATED SO THEN I WOULD IT'S NOT MEANT POLICY.
RATHER THAN LEAVING IT TO THE DISCRETION OF THE MAGISTRATE JUDGE, YOU STILL HAVE DISCRETION
WHY DON'T WE JUST SAY ONE WARNING AND THEN A 2,500 FINE AND THEN ANOTHER 2,500 FINE.
AND THEN, I MEAN, JUST YOU GET A WARNING.
AND MOST, I EXPECT MOST OF THE WARNINGS WOULD BE PEOPLE WHO JUST DIDN'T KNOW THAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO GET THE PERMANENT.
I MEAN, I STILL DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF THE COURT.
[01:40:01]
THAT COUNSELOR.IF IT'S A PRIVATE RESIDENT THAT'S TURNED THEIR, UH, HOUSE INTO AN EVENT VENUE, ISN'T IT A BUSINESS AT THAT POINT? OR DON'T WE HAVE A ANOTHER WAY TO GO AFTER 'EM AS WELL? UM, I MEAN, WE HAVE THE HOME BASED BUSINESS SECTION.
MAYBE THEY CAN TRY TO FIT IT UNDER THAT.
UM, THEY CAN GET A BUSINESS LICENSE.
NOTHING TO PREVENT THEM FROM GETTING A BUSINESS LICENSE NECESSARILY.
SO I'M NOT SURE THAT IT WORKS.
A HOME BASED BUSINESS IS LIMITED TO 25% OF YOUR HOUSE.
YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE EMPLOYEES.
UM, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE TRAFFIC THAT'S NOT TYPICAL OF A SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE.
SO, UM, THAT THEY'D PROBABLY BE IN VIOLATION OF A NUMBER OF THOSE THINGS IF THEY TRIED TO TURN THEIR HOUSE INTO AN EVENT VENUE.
BUT I'M SUPPORTIVE OF THIS APPROACH THAT WE'RE USING THE, THE FINE APPROACH.
CAN WE BE REALLY CLEAR WHAT WE'RE SAYING THEN? AND NOTICE DOESN'T GO INTO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE DOESN'T GO INTO LGC.
THAT'S, I KIND OF FEEL LIKE IT WOULD HAVE TO GO IN THERE, OR I GUESS TO GO INTO THE SHORT TERM RENTAL CODE IS WHERE YOU SAY IT WOULD, WE GENERALLY DON'T HAVE FINES IN THE LAND OF LIKE A SPECIFIC WE DO.
WE HAVE A GENERAL WELL, YEAH, THE GENERAL $2,500 FOR ANY OFFENSE.
SO WE'D NEED A DIFFERENT, IT WOULD NEED TO GO IN THAT SAME SECTION.
UM, AND THE REASON, THE REASON FOR THAT IS FOR IT TO BE IN THE SHORT TERM RENTAL SECTION, IT WON'T GO IN THE SHORT TERM.
IT'D HAVE TO BE IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE BECAUSE IT HAS TO APPLY TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE RESIDENCES AS WELL.
AND THEY'RE NEVER LOOKING IN THE SHORT TERM RENTAL CODE SECTION.
SO IT'D HAVE TO GO IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
OR WHEREVER YOU WOULD DEEM APPROPRIATE.
BUT IT HAS TO BE SOMEWHERE WHERE EVERYONE, IT APPLIES TO EVERYONE.
I'M JUST, I'M REALLY STRUGGLING WITH THAT SECTION, UM, THAT LANGUAGE.
'CAUSE IT SAYS ALSO EDUCATIONAL EVENTS.
I MEAN THIS, THE LANGUAGE IS JUST, IT'S JUST, WE'RE TOTALLY RESTRICTING WHAT PEOPLE COULD DO.
AND YES, NORMALLY THERE WON'T BE A COMPLAINT AND NORMALLY THERE WON'T BE AN ISSUE.
BUT THE THING IS THAT THERE, YOU'RE NOW CODIFYING, YOU'RE PUTTING SOMETHING IN THAT ARE USES THAT THE PEOPLE WOULD, YOU KNOW, REASONABLY EXPECT TO DO IN THEIR HOME.
I MEAN, IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, SO WE'RE GOOD TO DO A WINK AND A NOD.
WELL, WE'LL PUT THIS IN THERE, WINK, WINK, BECAUSE WE KNOW WON'T, NOBODY'S GONNA ENFORCE IT.
I MEAN, THAT JUST SEEMS LIKE COUNTER TO WHAT WE AS GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE DOING, IS A RESPONSIBLE ENTITY.
SO MAYOR AND COUNSEL, THE EDUCATIONAL HAS ALREADY BEEN IN THERE AND THAT'S BEEN A SPECIAL EVENT FOREVER.
'CAUSE PEOPLE DO LIKE TO COME HERE AND HOLD EDUCATIONAL TRAININGS AND THEY'LL BRING IN 60 PEOPLE, UM, AND INTO THESE BIG HOUSES AND INTO SPECIAL EVENTS.
TWO THAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT, MAYBE SOME THRESHOLDS OF ATTENDEES OR SOMETHING HERE, BECAUSE IT'S NOT THE EVENT OF A, AN EDUCATIONAL EVENT OR A RELIGIOUS EVENT.
SOMEBODY WANTS TO HAVE A SMALL RELIGIOUS CEREMONY.
UM, IT JUST, IT'S, WE'RE PUNISHING THE WRONG THING.
WE'RE PUNISHING THE ACTIVITIES VERSUS THE MISUSE OF THE ACTIVITIES.
KURT, IS THERE NO WAY THAT WE CAN LET PEOPLE DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO IN THEIR HOME, BUT STILL REGULATED IF THEY TURN IT INTO A BUSINESS? I MEAN, 'CAUSE I MEAN, THINKING THIS, THAT'S WHAT SHORT TERM RENTALS ARE.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH TREATING SHORTTERM RENTAL.
NO, BUT THEY TURN, BUT THEY TURN IT INTO A WEDDING VENUE.
THEY TURN THEIR HOME INTO A WEDDING VENUE.
THIS IS THE WAY TO PREVENT IT, IS BY DEFINING SPECIAL EVENTS AND REQUIRING PERMITS FOR EVERYONE IS THE ONLY WAY TO PREVENT IT.
SO, I MEAN, I DON'T SEE, I DON'T SEE A WAY THAT WE'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO GET THE, THE GRADED, UH, INCREASED FINES, YOU KNOW, WARNING ADDITIONAL FINES IN TONIGHT.
AND SO I THINK WHAT WE'D NEED TO DO IS JUST WE COULD SCRAP EVERYTHING ELSE AND NOT, AND SCRAP THE CHANGES FOR TONIGHT.
LET'S APPROVE EVERYTHING ELSE.
BUT THIS ONE JUST, I'M JUST, JUST IN THE SPECIAL EVENT CHANGES.
SO EVERYTHING, UNDER EVERYTHING ELSE, IF COUNCIL'S OKAY WITH, BUT 9.4 POINT G, REMOVE ALL THOSE CHANGES AND THEN LET US, UH, TRY AGAIN AND COME BACK AND TIE IT TO SOME FINES.
UM, AND MAYBE, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, HEARING FROM COUNCIL ABOUT THE CONCERNS OF IT BEING TOO RESTRICTIVE, ESPECIALLY FROM COUNCILOR FAF.
I WAS INVITED TO SOMEONE'S HOME TOMORROW NIGHT WHO'S HAVING A SALON? SALON.
THEY'RE HAVING, IS THAT AN EDUCATIONAL EVENT? I DON'T KNOW THAT KURT KNOWS WHAT A SALON IS.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT A, IS A DISCUSSION ON A TOPIC.
NO, YOU'RE, IS THAT AN EDUCATIONAL EVENT? THEY'RE HAVING A, A PROFESSOR FROM NAU COME TO TALK ABOUT THIS TOPIC.
[01:45:01]
IS THAT AN EDUCATIONAL EVENT IN THEIR HOME? I WOULD SAY SO, YEAH.WELL THEN THIS WHOLE SECTION IS SO THAT, THAT YEAH, IT WOULD, IT WOULD STAY THE SAME.
ANYTHING NOT IN REDWOOD OR UNDERLINE WOULD STILL BE IN THERE FOR NOW.
BUT WE CAN, UH, COME BACK AS STAFF AND TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHAT WE'RE HEARING FROM COUNCIL TONIGHT.
TRY TO BRING BACK SOMETHING THAT, SOMETHING ELSE.
MAYOR, CAN I, YES, WE CAN LOOK INTO THE, THE PERSON ONE.
WE CAN LOOK INTO THE GRADED FINES, SEE IF THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE WE CAN DO.
I KINDA WANNA BACK OFF ON THE GRADED FINE IDEA BECAUSE IF SOMEBODY, OKAY, SOMEBODY'S GOT A BIG FAMILY.
SO THE FIRST WEDDING, HEY, FINE, SECOND WEDDING YOU HAVE IN YOUR HOME, WE'RE GONNA HIT YOU 2,500 BUCKS.
WELL, IN THAT CASE THOUGH, THE SECOND WEDDING, YOU WOULD KNOW THEORETICALLY, IF YOU WERE WARNED ON THE FIRST ONE THAT YOU NEED A PERMIT.
THE PERMIT ONLY COSTS YOU A HUNDRED BUCKS, RIGHT? MM-HMM
IT'S NOT DOING IT WITHOUT A PERMIT.
THAT IS PERMIT FEE FOR NOT THAT YOU'RE DOING IT.
I DON'T, YES, AND THE FINE, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW.
WE CAN'T, DON'T MAKE CHANGES TO FEES TONIGHT, BUT, OKAY.
AMENDING THE FEE FOR A TEMPORARY USE PERMIT IS ALSO AT YOUR DISCRETION.
WHY DON'T WE, SO WE'RE REMOVING THAT ONE FROM THE AMENDMENTS THAT YOU WOULD BE CONSIDERING TONIGHT.
AND THEN WE JUST MADE THOSE OTHER CHANGES TO THE NOTIFICATION RADIUS ONES.
SO IF WE HAVE A MOTION, KATHY, QUESTION.
SOMEBODY ELSE MAKING IT? MM-HMM
UM, WE, WE'VE BEEN TALKING UP HERE ABOUT POLICY AND WANTING TO SET A POLICY AROUND, UH, CITY PROJECTS THAT WOULD NORMALLY GO THROUGH, UH, DESIGN REVIEW, P AND Z TYPE THING, CONTINUING TO DO THAT.
BUT POLICIES NEED TO BE CODIFIED SOMEWHERE, RIGHT? I MEAN, WE CAN'T JUST SAY, HEY, WE HAVE THIS POLICY AND IT'S NOT RECORDED ANYWHERE THAT THIS IS A POLICY GOING FORWARD.
OTHERWISE IT'S, IT'S GONNA SLIP BETWEEN CRACKS.
AND, AND HOW WOULD WE DO THAT? IS THAT PART OF RULES AND PROCEDURES? IS THAT AN ORDINANCE? HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE DO THAT TO MAKE THAT POLICY CODIFIED SOMEHOW? I'M ASSUMING THAT'S PEOPLE WANT IT CODIFIED.
SO, SO MY THOUGHTS WERE IT'D BE A, A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT POLICY, UM, FOR THEIR REVIEW AND THEIR PROCEDURES.
UH, I DON'T THINK IT REALLY FITS IN COUNCIL RULES AND PROCEDURES.
UM, BUT IT, IT COULD, IF COUNCIL WANTED TO PUT IT IN THERE, WE COULD ADD A NEW SECTION.
UM, THE OTHER OPPORTUNITY, YOU CAN PUT IT IN IN CODE IF YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE IT NEVER GETS CHANGED WITHOUT COUNSEL.
UH, LOOKING AT THAT, I WOULD WANNA SEE IT CODIFIED.
JUST SO WE DON'T SAY, OH, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THAT THIS TIME.
OH, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THAT THIS TIME.
WE DECIDE, OH, WE, YOU KNOW, AND THEN PRETTY SOON IT'S NEVER HAPPENING AGAIN.
SO, I MEAN, SO ME MAKE IT PART OF THE PROCESS.
SO I DON'T THINK I CAN WRITE THAT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD RIGHT NOW.
BUT IF THAT'S THE DIRECTION WE CAN BRING THAT BACK THE NEXT TIME WE GO THROUGH LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENTS.
DO WE HAVE SUPPORT FOR THAT FROM EVERYTHING? WELL, I THINK IT'S SOONER VERSUS LATER.
WE CAN SUPPORT ON COUNCIL IS, I THINK SO.
IS THAT A CONSENSUS OF COUNCIL? I THINK TO CODIFY A PRO, TO CODIFY A PROCESS WHERE CITY PROJECTS WOULD STILL GO THROUGH.
CARRIE, COULD WE PUT IT IN THAT SAME SECTION RIGHT THERE? OR CITY INITIATIVE? WELL, THIS ISN'T A PUBLISHED AND MAILED NOTICE SECTION.
I KNOW THE TITLE WOULDN'T FIT
IT'S ONLY, IT SHOULD JUST BE, THE TITLE SHOULD JUST BE CITY INITIATED PROJECTS.
AND THEN WE COULD HAVE, ANYWAY, I, IT'S PROBABLY BETTER FOR US TO LOOK AT IT AND COME BACK.
AND I'M NOT SUGGESTING WE EXPAND WHAT WE HAVE A PNZ HEARING ON.
JUST, IF IT WOULD GO BEFORE PNZ NOW, AND IT'S A CITY MATTER, IT WILL CONTINUE TO GO THROUGH PNZ.
IT'LL CONTINUE TO HAVE, I DON'T WANT TO OPEN UP THE FLOODGATES TO ALL THESE MATTERS.
DO YOU WANNA VOTE ON THIS NOW? MM-HMM
AND GET THE, UH, CHANGES DONE THAT WE ALL AGREE ON, AND THEN HAVE THE STAFF COME BACK WITH THE OTHER.
SO THE TWO OTHER THINGS ARE FINES AND THE, THE TYPES OF DEF DEFINITION, SPECIAL EVENT TYPES AND, AND OF FINES, TYPES OF, RIGHT.
AND THEN THE OTHER THING IS THE, YEAH.
ISN'T THAT ESSENTIALLY A MOTION TO DEFER? YEAH.
WHAT'S THE ADVANTAGE TO DOING THIS PIECEMEAL? SO A COUPLE OF THINGS BECAUSE WE HAVE TO BE CON WE HAVE TO BE COMPLIANT WITH 24 47 BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR.
AND THESE ARE NOT, THESE ISSUES ARE NOT COMPLIANCE ISSUES.
THE REST OF THEM WERE COMPLIANCE ISSUES.
[01:50:01]
STAFF'S PREFERENCE WOULD BE TO ADOPT THE REST TONIGHT.UH, 'CAUSE OTHERWISE WE'LL HAVE TO GET IT ALL TOGETHER IN LIKE TWO WEEKS TO GET BACK ON OR LESS.
WE'RE ALREADY REVIEWING THE PACKET FOR IN TWO WEEKS.
SO WHO WANTS TO MAKE A MOTION? I MOVE TO APPROVE ORDINANCE 2025 DASH 1111 CONSISTENT WITH THE APPROVAL CRITERIA IN SECTION 8.6 POINT C FOUR OF THE LDC AMENDING THE LDC ADOPTING BY REFERENCE THAT DOCUMENT KNOWN AS EXHIBIT A DASH NOVEMBER 12TH, 2025, PROPOSED LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REVISIONS PROVIDING FOR A SAVINGS CLAUSE AND REPEALING ALL ORDINANCES OR PARTS OF ORDINANCES OR CODE PROVISIONS IN CONFLICT HEREWITH.
IS THAT GOOD? CAN WE MAKE TWO? YEAH.
WITH, WITH, WITH THE, WITH 8.3 F 3 84 RIGHT UP THERE.
UM, 8.3 F THREE A FOUR WOULD READ FOR CITY INITIATED PROJECT IN ADDITION TO NOTICING REQUIREMENTS OF LDC.
SECTION 8.3, F THREE A THREE MAIL NOTICES SHALL BE SENT TO ALL ADDRESSES WITHIN CITY LIMITS AND ELIMINATION OF THE PROPOSED CHANGES TO EIGHT NINE 4G TEMPORARY USES SPECIAL EVENT DEFINITION.
DO YOU WANT ME TO REPEAT THAT, PLEASE? NO.
YOU JUST STATE AS AMENDED AS STATED BY CARRIE AS AMENDED AS A AMEN IS STATED BY STAFF SECOND.
I, SO MUCH OF ME WANTS TO VOTE NO, BUT I SUPPORT THE MINOR PARTS OF THIS, BUT A OKAY, BECAUSE IT'S A P AND Z RELATED THE NEXT TOPIC.
SO I THINK THAT THIS ONE WILL BE QUICK, HOPEFULLY, UH, WHY DON'T WE MOVE ON AND THEN WE'LL TAKE A BREAK.
[8.b. AB 3271 Discussion/possible action for approval of a Resolution adopting revised Planning and Zoning Commission Operating Rules and Procedures. ]
WOULD BE AB 32 71.DISCUSS DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION FOR APPROVAL OF A RESOLUTION ADOPTING REVISED PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION OPERATING RULES AND PROCEDURES.
I TOOK THE, THE LEAD ON THIS ONE JUST 'CAUSE I WAS THERE.
AND, AND, UH, COM DEV STAFF WAS WORKING HARD ON, ON THESE CHANGES.
BUT DUE TO HB 24 47, UH, THE PLANNING AND ZONING, UH, COMMISSION HAS, WILL LOSE ABOUT HALF OF ITS WORK.
AND SO THEY HAVE PROPOSED, UH, TO CHA CHANGE THEIR, UH, RULES SO THAT THEY ONLY MEET ON THE FIRST TUESDAY OF EACH MONTH INSTEAD OF THE FIRST AND THIRD TUESDAY OF EACH MONTH, WHILE RETAINING THE ABILITY TO HOLD A SPECIAL MEETING IF THEY EVER NEEDED TO.
UH, SO AS TO NOT DELAY A PROJECT, UH, GENERALLY APPLICANTS KNOW MANY MONTHS AHEAD OF TIME WHAT P AND Z MEETING THEY'RE SHOOTING FOR.
SO IF THEY KNOW THERE'S ONLY ONE, THEY CAN PLAN ACCORDINGLY.
UM, BUT IF SOMETHING CAME UP, WE COULD ALWAYS STILL HOLD AN ADDITIONAL, UH, COMMISSION MEETING IF NEEDED.
UH, SO THE COMMISSION DID APPROVE, UM, UM, THAT AMENDMENT SIX TO ONE.
CARRIE, CAN YOU REMIND ME WHAT THE ONE HOLDOUT WAS FOR? UM, BECAUSE THERE IS STILL THE OPTION OF APPEALING DIRECTOR'S DECISIONS ON THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW.
THE ONE COMMISSION WHO VOTED NO, UM, FELT THAT IT WOULD BE BETTER TO WAIT TO SEE HOW THE, THESE NEW RULES PLAY OUT BEFORE MAKING A CHANGE TO THEIR SCHEDULE.
SO THEY FELT IT WAS PRE PREMATURE TO TAKE THE SECOND MEETING OF THE MONTH OUT AUTOMATICALLY.
SO, UH, AND SO THAT'S THE PROPOSAL BEFORE YOU, UM, CITY COUNCIL HAS ALWAYS, UH, CONTROLLED THE P AND Z'S COMMISSION'S OPERATING RULES AND PROCEDURES.
UH, AND SO THEY'VE, THIS IS JUST A RECOMMENDATION FROM P AND Z, UM, SIX TO ONE.
UM, BUT, UH, COUNCIL'S FREE TO DO WHAT THEY'D LIKE, ADOPT THIS OR AMEND IT, UM, OR NOT DO ANYTHING AT ALL.
ARE THERE QUESTIONS? CAN I MAKE A MOTION? IS THAT A QUESTION? COMMENTS? OKAY.
I DON'T KNOW WHO THAT ONE P AND Z COMMISSIONER WAS, BUT I, I FEEL SIMILARLY THAT THIS MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT PREMATURE YET.
WE'VE, WE'RE DEALING WITH NOT ONLY THESE CHANGES, BUT THE SHORTENING TIMELINE AS WELL.
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER WE'RE GONNA SEE MORE APPEALS TO THE P AND Z AT THIS POINT YET OR NOT.
AND I, I THINK THAT IT'S USEFUL TO SEE HOW THIS WHOLE THING IS GONNA COME DOWN BEFORE WE MAKE CHANGES.
[01:55:03]
I DON'T KNOW.ON MY P-S-P-R-S BOARD MEETING, WE'VE DECIDED TO GO THE DIRECTION OF SCHEDULING THE MEETINGS AND JUST CANCELING THEM WHEN WE DON'T NEED IT.
RATHER THAN SCHEDULING SPECIAL MEETINGS, PEOPLE'S CALENDARS GET FULL AND PEOPLE TEND TO NOT BE ABLE TO REACT AS QUICKLY TO SPECIAL MEETINGS AS THEY DO TO A SCHEDULED MEETING.
UH, I'M IN SUPPORTIVE OF THE CHANGE BECAUSE I THINK WHEN I LOOK AT THE INFORMATION THAT WAS PROVIDED, I MEAN, IN 2024 OUT OF A TOTAL OF 24 POTENTIAL MEETINGS, 11 WERE HELD, 13 WERE CANCELED.
UH, 20, 25, 18 POTENTIAL MEETINGS, SEVEN, UH, WERE HELD, 11 WERE CANCELED.
WE JUST GOT A CANCELLATION NOTICE TONIGHT OF THE NEXT UPCOMING PNZ MEETING AS WELL.
UM, I JUST THINK THAT THIS DOES NOT, IT, IT'S THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU SAID.
I THINK THERE'S BETTER PLANNING INVOLVED, UM, IF WE KNOW WHAT THE SCHEDULE IS, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE HOLDING THEIR SCHEDULES, IT JUST SEEMS AN UNDUE BURDEN.
UM, BUT ALSO I THINK IT WOULD BE A WHILE IF WHATEVER WE CHANGE, WE COULD CHANGE BACK.
AND I DON'T SEE ANY POTENTIAL APPEALS BEING ABLE TO MOVE THROUGH THE PIPELINE THAT QUICKLY, THAT THIS WOULD AFFECT THE NEED FOR MORE MEETINGS IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE.
CARRIE, CAN YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND THAT IF THERE WERE, IF THERE STARTED TO BE DENIALS BECAUSE OF STAFF REVIEW THAT MADE THEIR WAY AND IT'S GONNA TAKE A WHILE TO START HAVING AN ACTUAL CALENDAR IMPACT? AM I CORRECT IN THAT OR NO? YEAH.
UM, PROBABLY WE'RE, YEAH, IT'S GONNA BE AT LEAST A MONTH OR TWO BEFORE WE, BEFORE TONY HERE STARTS APPROVING STUFF.
UM, AND YEAH, WE'LL SEE HOW IT GOES.
LIKE KURT SAID, WE CAN CALL SPECIAL MEETINGS, BUT ON AVERAGE, EVEN WITH THE CURRENT WORKLOAD, WE'VE CANCELED ABOUT HALF THE MEETINGS ON, ON AVERAGE.
AND THEY, THEY REQUESTED THIS? YES, THEY DID.
THEY IN INITIATED THE, UH, REQUEST TO SEE IF THEY NEEDED TO CHANGE THE RULES.
WE STAFF PUT TOGETHER THE, UH, INFORMATION AND TOLD 'EM THAT STAFF WAS FINE GOING TO ONCE A MONTH.
AND IT, UM, THERE ARE, WE LOOKED AT, WHAT WAS IT, COTTONWOOD OR CAMP VERDE? ONE OF THEM DOES ONCE A MONTH FOR THEIR P AND Z.
THERE'S A NUMBER OF MUNICIPALITIES THAT ONLY DO ONCE A MONTH.
THERE'S A NUMBER OF MUNICIPALITIES BOTH IN THE VERDE VALLEY AND DOWN IN THE PHOENIX AREA THAT DO ONCE A MONTH.
WE USED TO DO FOUR A MONTH, SO TWO IS BETTER THAN THAT.
MAYOR, MAY I MAKE ONE ADDITIONAL COMMENT? MM-HMM
I ALSO THINK THAT WITH THE INCREASED WORKLOAD THAT STAFF IS GOING TO EXPERIENCE, UM, WITH HAVING THESE THINGS WE STAFF REVIEWED, UH, WHY PUT ANOTHER MEETING ON THERE THAT TAKES STAFF TIME TO POSSIBLY PREPARE FOR AND THEN CANCEL, OR THE WORK THAT GOES INTO A CANCELLATION, IF THERE IS ANY? I MEAN, IT JUST, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE, AGAIN, I SUPPORT THIS CHANGE.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? I SUPPORT THE CHANGE.
CAN I HAVE A MOTION THEN I CAN MAKE THAT MOTION IF YOU LIKE.
I MOVE TO APPROVE RESOLUTION 2025 DASH 1717 AMENDING THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION'S, OPERATING RULES AND PROCEDURES.
ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE.
OPPOSED? OKAY, LET'S TAKE A 20 MINUTE BREAK.
[8.c. AB 3295 Discussion/possible action for the City to apply to the Federal Lands Access Program for two different projects: The Western Gateway Trailhead Development Project and the Schnebly Hill Road Improvement Project. ]
32 95 DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION FOR THE CITY TO APPLY TO THE FEDERAL LANDS ACCESS PROGRAM FOR TWO DIFFERENT PROJECTS.THE WESTERN GATEWAY TRAILHEAD DEVELOPMENT PROJECT AND THE SCH NIBLEY HILL ROAD IMPROVEMENT PROJECT.
KURT, ARE YOU THE PRESENTER? YES, I AM MAYOR.
I AM I'M GONNA HAVE, UM, AMBER JOIN ME AND WE'RE GONNA HAVE PHILLIP WITH THE FOREST SERVICE.
I'M KURT HARRIS, PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR, CITY ENGINEER.
UH, WITH ME I HAVE PHILIP WALDROP AND HE'S OUR RECREATIONAL STAFF OFFICER FOR THE RED ROCK RANGER DISTRICT AND OF COURSE, AMBER WAGNER WITH TRANSIT.
UM, REALLY EXCITED TO BRING THIS TO YOU HERE.
THE FLAT PROJECT IS SOMETHING PERSONAL FOR ME.
I'VE ACTUALLY WORKED WITH ADOT
[02:00:01]
IN DELIVERING TWO OF THE PROJECTS.ONE WAS FROM FOREST HIGHLANDS ON STATE ROUTE 89 A TO THE OAK CREEK OVERLOOKED.
YOU RECALL, IT WAS VERY NARROW ROAD, VERY DANGEROUS, UM, VEGETATION UP TO THE ROAD.
SO WHERE I'M EXCITED SINCE I TOOK THIS JOB WITH THE CITY OF SEDONA, I'VE ALWAYS MENTIONED TO THE CITY MANAGERS THAT CITY SEDONA IS PERFECT FOR THIS GRANT OPPORTUNITY.
SO WITH THAT SAID, I HOPE WE HAVE A LOT OF SUCCESS AND THIS WILL JUST BE THE FIRST OF MANY WITH YOUR APPROVAL TO COME THROUGH THE CITY, TO, TO PROVIDE BETTER ACCESS OF THE PUBLIC TO THE FOREST LAND OR GOVERNMENT LANDS.
UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, UM, YOU'VE ALL HAD THE POWERPOINT PRESENTATION.
I'M GONNA GO THROUGH STEP TO STEP AND I'M JUST GONNA CALL OUT HIGHLIGHTS.
I'M NOT GONNA SPEND MUCH TIME TO IT, BUT IF YOU WOULD LIKE ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS, PLEASE STOP AND ASK.
I ALSO WANT TO MENTION THAT WE HAVE TYLER CAMARATA.
HE FELT A LITTLE ILL, BUT, UM, HE'S DONE TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WORK FOR THE CITY WITH THIS GRANT APPLICATION.
UM, BOTH AMBER AND I ARE TRYING TO BUILD HIM UP TO DELIVER MORE OF THESE PROJECTS, SO HOPEFULLY FORTHCOMING HE'LL BE A LOT MORE INVOLVED.
UM, THIS EFFORT, THIS PROJECT IS REALLY A, A TESTAMENT A PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN THE US FOREST SERVICE AND THE CITY.
AND IT REALLY DOCUMENTS HOW GREAT THE CITY'S WORKING TOGETHER IN INTER DEPARTS TO BRING THIS TO YOU.
UM, AGAIN, THIS IS AN APPLICATION FOR YOUR PERMISSION TO APPLY.
RIGHT NOW IT'S JUST A CONCEPT SCOPE, THE BEST WE CAN DO WITHIN THE TIMELINE AND WITHIN THE, THE PARAMETERS OF THE CONDITION OF THE, OF THE FLAP ITSELF.
SO I WANNA HIGHLIGHT ON PAGE TWO HERE THAT AGAIN, IT'S JUST APPROVAL TO APPLY FOR THE, FOR THE APPLICATION AND IF THE, IF IT GETS APPROVED, THERE'LL BE FAR MORE DETAIL IN A DETAILED SCOPE.
AND THEN ONCE IT'S THROUGH SCOPE, IT'LL GO THROUGH DESIGN.
AND THEN ACTUALLY WHEN IT GOES THROUGH THE WHOLE DESIGN SYSTEM, WE'LL BE BRINGING BACK TO COUNCIL WHERE WE ARE AND TO THE DELIVERY SYSTEM, UH, WHEN IT'S ACTUALLY IN CONSTRUCTION.
AGAIN, THESE, UH, IMPROVEMENTS WILL BENEFIT THE FOREST SERVICE PRIMARILY.
AND, UM, IT WOULD ALSO BENEFIT LONG-TERM WISE FOR TRANSIT.
AND AMBER, IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK TO TRANSIT, WE'RE LOOKING AT BOTH THESE PROJECTS THAT WERE PUT FORWARD.
UH, WE HAD 12 PROJECTS, PROJECTS THAT WE WORKED COLLABORATIVELY WITH, WITH THE FOREST SERVICE TO PRIORITIZE, UH, BASED ON THE ELIGIBILITY OF THE GRANTS, THESE TWO FIT, UH, WITH TIMING AND, UH, WHERE THEY'RE AT IN PROJECT DEVELOPMENT.
AND, UH, WE SEE BOTH OF THESE PROJECTS THAT REALLY LAY THE GROUNDWORK AND FRAMEWORK AND TIE INTO OUR SEDONA IN MOTION AS WELL AS OUR TRANSIT IMPLEMENTATION PLAN TO, UH, FOR FUTURE MULTIMODAL CONNECTIONS FOR STEPS AS WELL AS TRAILHEAD AND CONNECT.
OKAY, ON SLIDE THREE, NOW THIS IS A TIGHT TIMELINE, AS YOU CAN TELL.
IT'S DUE BY NOVEMBER 25TH, UM, WITH YOUR APPROVAL.
UH, AS OF TONIGHT, WE HAVE LETTERS OF SUPPORT THAT'LL GO OUT TOMORROW TO GIVE THE, UM, THESE LETTERS AND OF TIME FOR THOSE PEOPLE TO SUPPORT TO GET BACK TO US IN THE PACKAGE.
UM, THERE'S NO LOCAL MATCH, WHICH IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
UM, THE CITY HAS TAKEN WILL TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MAINTENANCE FOR THE CITY APPROVED IMPROVEMENTS.
IT'S MOSTLY IN THESE TWO PROJECTS.
IT'S, UH, ANY PATH OR TRAIL OR ASSOCIATED ROAD ON FOREST SERVICE PROPERTY.
UM, WELL WE COULD TALK MORE IN THE LETTER, BUT IT WAS REALLY THE, WITH THE 12 MILLION AND THE TIMEFRAMES, WE WENT THROUGH NUMEROUS PROJECTS WITH THE FOREST SERVICE AND WE CAME WITH THESE, UH, TWO PROJECTS THAT WE FEEL ARE BEST FIT, UM, FOR US AND THE PROXIMITY TO THE CITY LIMITS.
HOW COMPETITIVE IS THIS? IT'S 12 MILLION PER YEAR IS NOT A LOT OF MONEY.
IT'S NOT, THEY'RE TYPICALLY A LOT MORE AND IT'S GETTING MORE COMPETITIVE WITH TIME.
UM, BUT I FEEL, UM, I CAN GET MORE INTO THE PROJECTS.
WE HAVE A REALLY GOOD ADVANTAGE OVER OTHER APPLICANTS.
UM, SO RIGHT HERE I HAVE, UH, I'M JUST HIGHLIGHTING, UH, BOTH PROJECTS THAT ARE SHOWN OVERALL, THE RED LINES ARE JUST THE WE, WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING FOR MULTIMODAL FOOTPRINTS THAT YOU COULD SEE FOR BOTH WESTERN GATEWAY AND SHIBLEY HILL ROAD.
I HAVE, UM, FURTHER IN THE PRESENTATION, I HAVE MORE DETAILED SLIDES.
I CAN GO, I KIND OF GO OVER AND I ALREADY JUST MENTIONED THAT I WAS INVOLVED IN TWO FLAT PROJECTS, WHICH WAS THE OAK CREEK OVERLOOK TO FOREST HIGHLANDS.
THEN ALSO RECENTLY WHEN I WAS THE, UM,
[02:05:01]
ASSISTANT, UH, DISTRICT ENGINEER WAS APACHE TRAIL IN THAT PROJECT AND THAT PROJECT WAS LIKE $20 MILLION.SO THEY DO HAVE A VARIANCE IN THERE DEPENDING ON THE GRANT CYCLE AND AVAILABLE FUNDING.
AGAIN, SOMETHING I WANNA HIGHLIGHT IS, UM, IS THE DOWNSIDE IS IT'S A LENGTHY TIME BECAUSE THERE'S NO MATCHING GRANT, BUT IT'S DESIGNED BY FEDERAL HIGHWAYS OR THEIR CONSULTANT.
UM, IT'S SCOPED, IT'S OUTREACH, IT'S, YOU KNOW, UH, AND THEN IT'S DELIVERED THE CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT, THE CITY, AND THEN THE LOCAL FOREST SERVICE OR REALLY WE'RE JUST STAKEHOLDERS THERE TO ANSWER QUESTION AND SUPPORT THE PROJECT.
BUT THE, AS YOU COULD TELL, THE TIMELINE'S PRETTY LENGTHY TIMELINE.
WE WOULDN'T HAVE CONSTRUCTION IF APPROVAL.
EVERYTHING GOES INTO EARLIEST THIS 2028.
HERE'S SOME PICTURES WE WANTED TO ADD IN HERE JUST TO SHOW THE CURRENT CONDITIONS.
AS YOU CAN SEE, UM, THE SURFACES ARE ALL DEGRADATED AND PRETTY EXTENSIVELY.
THESE BOTH PROJECTS ARE GONNA PROVIDE, UM, HARD SURFACES.
UM, AND THEN AGAIN, THE CITY WOULD BE MAINTAINING THEM.
WE'D ABSORB THAT INTO OUR PAYMENT PRESERVATION PROGRAM.
WE HAVE LIKE 92 MILES RIGHT NOW, SO WE'RE ASKING, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE HUNDREDS OF FEET BUT NOT SIGNIFICANTLY THAT WAS GONNA RE REALLY REQUIRE NEW BUDGETING ITEM.
AND I THINK, UH, THE BIG ISSUE IS, AS YOU SHOULD KNOW, USERS COME AND USE THESE TRAIL HEADS.
THEY DON'T KNOW THE PROPERTY BOUNDARIES.
SO BOTH THE FOREST SERVICE AND THE CITY GET COMPLAINTS.
WHY IS THERE SUCH A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO SURFACES IN POINT? SO ANYWAYS, I JUST GOT THESE PHOTOS.
SO THEY'RE PRETTY, UH, CURRENT, UH, PROJECT ONE.
THE HIGHLIGHTS ARE, UM, WE'RE GONNA, THEY'RE PART OF THE, THE BENEFIT OF THIS THAT WE FEEL WE'RE REALLY BE, UH, HAVE A LOT OF LEVERAGE TOWARDS AWARD OF THIS GRANTS IS THE FOREST SERVICE ALREADY HAS AND RECEIVED AN AMERICAN GREAT OUTDOORS GRANT.
SO THIS GRANT CAN DOVETAIL INTO THAT, UM, AND ACTUALLY USE AS A LEVERAGE FOR ALL THE IMPROVEMENTS THEY'RE DOING ON THE FOREST SERVICE LAND.
AND I HAVE, UH, THAT I DIDN'T INCLUDE IN THE POWERPOINT, BUT I HAVE ATTACHMENTS IF YOU GUYS WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHICH OF THE DETAILS OF WHAT THE FORCE WAS ASKED PASS ALONG.
UM, THEY'VE BEEN DOING THAT FOR HOW LONG? FEEL LIKE 10 YEARS OR SOMETHING? IS THE, THANK YOU.
YEAH, IT'S BEEN 20, I THINK 2018 WHEN THE FIRST, UH, WHEN IT WAS FINALLY SIGNED THE, THE FIRST DECISION MEMO FOR THAT.
SO THEIR WHOLE WESTERN GATEWAY IMPROVEMENT GRIDER TRAIL IS A LONG TERM.
UH, THE BIG PART OF THIS HIGHLIGHT ON, ON THE WESTERN GATEWAY IS WE'RE BRINGING, UM, THE CITY'S SHARE IS WOULD BE THE SHARED USE PATH FROM STATE ROUTE 89 A TO THE TRAIL HEAD.
THERE'D BE PAVEMENT WITHIN THE TRAIL HEAD.
UM, AND THEN THEIR GRANT'S GONNA PAY FOR ALL THEIR VAULT TOILETS AND THE MAINTENANCE AND ALL THE EQUESTRIAN IMPROVEMENTS.
SO THE CITY'S COMMITMENT IS REALLY THE SHARED USE PATH THAT WE ALREADY HAVE PLANNED AS PART OF OUR WESTERN GATEWAY.
AGAIN, THE TIMING OF THESE PROJECTS WILL WORK WITH THE COORDINATION AND BE BLENDED WITH THE ADJACENT PLANNING.
UM, HOW THOSE FOLD OUT WITH THE TIMING OF BOTH PROJECTS.
THIS IS THE SLIDE I TRIED TO PUT TOGETHER.
I APOLOGIZE WITH A SMALL FONT.
UM, BUT IT SHOWS A RENDERING OF WHAT THE SHARED USE PATH WOULD LIKE WITH A, A PAVED, UH, CULTURAL, UH, CULTURAL ROAD.
AND THEN IT ALSO SHOWS THE DELINEATION.
I COULD SHOW, CAN YOU SEE THE CURSOR? THE ASSURED USE PATH IS GONNA COME FROM 89 A ALL THE WAY INTO THE PARKING LOT.
AND THEN THERE'S THE BOUNDARIES.
THE OTHER POINT I WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT IS THE CENTENNIAL PARKWAY, WHICH IS A REALLY EXCITING PART, AT LEAST FOR ME, FOR PROVIDING A DA ACCESS.
AND RIGHT NOW IT'S A, A PAVED PARK.
I DUNNO IF YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN OUT THERE AND SEEN IT.
WE'D HOPE TO DO A BETTER SURFACE TREATMENT THAN THAT.
SO IT WOULD REQUIRE LESS MAINTENANCE.
BUT I FEEL THAT REALLY OPENS AND DIVERSIFIES ACCESS, UM, FOR ALL THE PUBLIC, UM, TO RECREATE HERE THROUGH HERE ON A, ON A CONTROLLED A DA SURFACE TO BE MORE OCCLUSIVE FOR RECREATION ON OUR TRAILS.
[02:10:02]
ANY QUESTIONS? ALRIGHT, I'LL MOVE FORWARD THEN.THE HIGHLIGHTS ARE, I'VE ALREADY CONTACTED.
THIS IS THE SCHLEY HILL ROAD, UM, WHICH IS BASICALLY GOING WHERE THE CITY LIMITS ARE INTO THE HUCKLEBEE UMMS WAGON TRAILHEAD AREA.
AGAIN, THE, YOU COULD SEE THE DETERIORATION OF THE PAVEMENT.
USUALLY THE EDGE IS BECAUSE THE LACK OF STORM WATER CONTROL.
SO I HAVE A RENDERING ON THE, ON THE FURTHER SLIDE SHOWING THAT WE'RE GONNA DO, UH, PATHWAYS ON BOTH SIDES TO PROTECT THAT PAVEMENT EDGE.
AND THEN IT WOULD BE A WHOLE RESURFACING.
UM, ALSO, I'VE LET YOU KNOW THOSE LETTERS OF SUPPORT.
I REACHED OUT TO JOHN, UM, FITZGIBBONS OF PINK JEEP PURES.
I EXPLAINED THE PROJECT WITH HIM AND HE'S REALLY IN FULL SUPPORT SAYING THIS IS NEEDED.
AGAIN, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE AREAS THAT BOTH THE FOREST SERVICE AND THE CITY GETS QUITE A BIT OF COMPLAINTS FROM PEOPLE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN THEY'RE LEAVING THE CITY TO, UH, FOREST SERVICE ROADS.
UM, AGAIN, THE, THE, THE GRANT AS WE FOUND OUT, WE NEED TO PROVIDE CONNECTIVITY IN ORDER TO HAVE A HIGHER SUCCESS.
SO WE CAN'T JUST STOP, START AND STOP THESE, UM, PATHWAYS ON ADJACENT.
I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND JUST DO THE SECOND PAGE.
YOU CAN SEE MY RENDERING IN THE TOP RIGHT.
WE CAN'T JUST HAVE PATHWAYS THAT LEAD TO NOWHERE.
THEY, SO IF YOU'RE GOING FROM THE TRAIL HEAD, WE JUST CAN'T STOP AT THE CITY LIMITS.
SO THIS PROJECT WOULD ALSO COORDINATE AS I DID IN THE, UM, AERIAL PHOTO OF A, UH, BIKE LANE.
SO WE WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE SOME EXPANSION DOWN TO BEAR WALLOW WHERE, UH, IT'S OAK CREEK HERITAGE LODGE IS, HAS A PENDING SHARED USE PATH.
AGAIN, BASED ON THE TIMING OF THIS, THIS PROJECT COULD OR COULD NOT, UM, INCLUDE OTHER IMPROVEMENTS TO HAVE THAT CONNECTIVITY ALL THE WAY FROM SCHEV HILL ROUNDABOUT TO THE TRAILHEAD.
SO THAT'S A IMPORTANT COMPONENT AS PART OF THE GRANT.
KURT, HAVE YOU TALKED TO THE BARE WALLA FOLKS ABOUT THIS? NO, MA'AM.
I THINK WE HAVE TO DO SOME OUTREACH TO THEM.
RIGHT NOW WE'RE JUST ASKING WHETHER SHOULD WE APPLY, RIGHT? IF WE DO, WE GET AWARDED.
I DO KNOW, UM, A LOT OF THE RESIDENTS AND THE PEOPLE IN THERE BY MY CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM BEFORE HAVE EXPLAINED SPEED WOULD BE A BIG ISSUE.
A LOT OF VEHICLES GOING SOUTHBOUND ON SNUBBY HILL.
UM, SO THEY WOULD, LIKE, WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT A, A SPEED FEEDBACK RADAR, PERHAPS A SPEED TABLE TO HANDLE THAT.
BUT IT WAS ALSO THEN THE AMOUNT OF PEDESTRIANS AND BICYCLISTS WHO USE THIS ROUTE.
UH, KURT, I JUST WANTED TO JUMP IN FOR A SECOND.
EARLIER YOU SAID, UM, SOMETHING ABOUT THIS PROJECT IN RELATION TO CITY LIMITS.
THE ENTIRE PROJECT IS IN CITY LIMITS.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT'S CLEAR FOR THE RECORD.
'CAUSE IT'S IN THE FOREST SERVICE AS WELL.
YEAH, I THINK THAT WAS IN REFERENCE TO THE PROJECT DOESN'T STOP AT THE END CORRECT.
OF WHERE THE CITY OWNS PROPERTY, NOT CITY LIMITS.
SO IT'S ENTIRELY WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS.
JUST WANNA MAKE THAT CLARIFICATION.
BUT SOME OF IT'S FOREST SERVICE LAND, CORRECT? CORRECT.
THIS IS OUR KIND OF OUR SUMMARY ABOUT THE GRANT APPLICATION.
UH, THE HIGHLIGHT IS AGAIN, UH, WE'RE HERE BEFORE YOU TO AUTHORIZE THE CITY MANAGER TO SIGN ANY NECESSARY APPLICATIONS AND DOCUMENTS AND REVIEW AS PART OF THIS APPLICATION PROCESS.
WE DON'T HAVE TO COME BACK EACH TIME THAT'S REQUIRED BASED UPON THIS APPROVAL.
AND THEN THIS IS A COMMITMENT THAT'S THE CITY'S GONNA TAKE OVER MAINTENANCE ON OF SURFACE ROADS, ON FOREST SERVICES AS PART OF THIS FLAT FOR PERPETUITY.
AND THAT'S UNDERNEATH THE, UM, UH, TRANSPORTATION, UH, DEED.
AND WITH YOUR APPROVAL, THESE LETTERS OF APPROVAL, UH, LIKE I SAID, WE'LL BE READY TO GO OUT TOMORROW.
WE'RE READY TO ROCK AND ROLL TO TRY TO GET THIS SUBMITTAL IN BY NOVEMBER 25TH.
WE COULD NOT GET CONFIRMATION THROUGH FEDERAL HIGHWAYS OF WHETHER, UM, WE WERE GONNA, UH, HAVE ANY EXTENSION BASED ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN AND WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED ANYTHING.
SO WE'RE ON THE TRACK TO MEET THAT DEADLINE.
AND THAT'S REALLY ALL I HAVE EXCEPT QUESTIONS, BRIAN.
KURT, IF YOU CAN GO BACK TO SLIDE FOUR SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE ESTIMATED TIMELINE.
SO LET'S JUST SAY FOR ARGUMENT'S SAKE THAT
[02:15:01]
WE, UH, GET DEVELOPMENT ON THE WESTERN GATEWAY UNDERWAY, YOU KNOW, IN THE NEXT YEAR OR SO.AND WE WOULD WANT THAT, UH, SHARED USE PATH THAT'S PROPOSED AS ONE OF THE POTENTIAL USES FOR THOSE GRANT FUNDS, UH, THAT WE COULD, WE COULD POSSIBLY WANT THAT IN PLACE BEFORE A 2028 CONSTRUCTION DATE.
SO ARE THESE GRANTS ONES IN WHICH YOU COULD EXPEND THE DOLLARS AHEAD OF TIME AND THEN GET REIMBURSED? OR IS IT, IS YOUR TIMELINE THAT YOU'RE SHOWING IS THAT LIKE HARD AND FAST? ACCORDING TO THE FLAP PROGRAM, THESE WERE THE BEST ESTIMATES.
WE HAD COUNCILMAN FTZ AT THIS TIME.
UM, BASED ON WHAT WE DID, WE ANTICIPATE, UH, ON CULTURAL PARK THAT THERE WERE GONNA BE A SHARED USE PATH ON BOTH SIDES, THE EAST AND WEST.
SO IF CULTURAL PARK WENT AHEAD AND WENT THROUGH THAT, WOULD THEN FINISH THE COMPLETION ON THE WEST SIDE AND THEN THIS PROJECT WOULD FOLLOW, UM, UH, WITH A SHARED USE PATH ON THE EAST SIDE.
IF IT DIDN'T HAPPEN AND IT COULDN'T, THEN IT WOULD JUST BE REMOVED FROM THE FLAP AS THAT PART.
BUT WE DON'T, YOU KNOW, THERE COULD THEN THOSE MONIES, DEPENDING UPON THE IMPROVEMENT OF THE ROAD THAT WE COULD ADD, AUGMENT THAT FOR MORE AMENITIES OR A WIDER LANE, MORE VEGETATION LANDSCAPING, UM, THEY'RE PRETTY MUCH OPEN.
BUT ONCE WE GET TO THE DESIGN PHASE OUT BEYOND THE CONCEPT, THEN WE REALLY BE ABLE TO TRY TO COORDINATE THOSE EFFORTS TO MAKE A, A HOLISTICALLY UH, IMPROVEMENT.
AND THEN ON THIS MAP THAT YOU PROVIDED US, UH, THIS EVENING HERE FOR, UH, CULTURAL PARK, THE FOREST SERVICE ROAD 9 5 9 5, THAT'S WHAT EXISTS NOW AND GOES OUT TO, WHAT IS THAT? AN OLD QUARRY? YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT.
AND IN THE FUTURE, IS THAT TO BE MAINTAINED AS A DIRT GRAVEL ROCK ROAD LIKE IT IS NOW OR? SO IT WILL BE THE, THE, THE LARGE PARKING LOT THAT WILL BE PAVED.
AND THEN THERE'S CURRENTLY A GATE JUST ON THAT, ON THAT SIDE THERE, ON THAT FAR SIDE OF THAT, THAT GATE WILL, WILL, WILL REMAIN THERE FROM THERE ON IT WILL BE, UH, DIRT ON DOWN TO THE QUARRY.
THAT'S ALSO WHERE THE EQUESTRIAN PARKING.
SO, UM, VERY SIMILAR TO, TO LIKE OUR JIM THOMPSON TRAILHEAD WHERE WE HAVE OUR EQUESTRIAN PARKING BEHIND A GATE.
SO EQUESTRIANS WOULD COME IN, THEY'D HAVE A CODE TOWARDS TO THAT GATE.
THEY WOULD THEN BE ON A, A DIRT ROAD TWO, THEIR PARKING.
THAT'S JUST ABOUT 200, 200 YARDS DOWN THAT, THAT ROAD.
AND THEN MY LAST QUESTION ON THE SCHLEY HILL ROAD PROJECT.
SO THE SECTION OF THE ROAD RIGHT NOW THAT AS I UNDERSTAND IS UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE FOREST SERVICE, HAS SOME VERY SERIOUS DEGRADED AREAS THAT IF THEY WERE IN THE CITY, I'D BE IN SQUAWKING ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME UNTIL THEY GET FIXED.
SO CAN YOU GET THOSE FIXED OR ARE YOU LITERALLY RELIANT ON A GRANT TO GET THAT FIXED? SO WHAT'S I, I'M NOT THE ENGINEER, BUT WHEN, WHEN TALKING WITH THE ENGINEER, UH, WE DO NOT HAVE FUNDING FOR RE PAVEMENT OF, OF THESE ROADS.
UM, ANY SORT OF ROADS REALLY OUR, THE WAY THE FOREST SERVICE DOES, THEY MAY PAVE A ROAD AND THEN REALLY WE JUST GO BACK TO GRAVEL.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENED.
UM, WE HAVE, WE HAVE LOOKED AT GETTING SOME PATCHING MATERIAL TO, TO SORT OF PATCH THOSE, THOSE EDGES UP.
UM, BUT WE WOULD BE LOOKING FOR, FOR THE GRANT TO ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO PAVE THE ROAD REP PAVE THE ROAD.
WE, WE DON'T, WE DON'T HAVE THE, A CONTRACT TO, TO REPAVE THAT ROAD OR THE FUNDING TO REPAVE THAT ROAD.
I MEAN, I'D LIKE TO SUGGEST TO MY COUNCIL COLLEAGUES THAT WE PROVIDE DIRECTION TO STAFF TO LOOK AT WHAT IT WOULD TAKE FOR THE CITY TO PATCH UP THOSE AREAS THAT ARE REALLY AT VERY SERIOUS RISK FOR AN AUTO ACCIDENT.
UM, I MEAN THE, I MEAN YOU'RE TALKING DEGRADING INTO THE ROAD LIKE THAT FAR, LIKE THAT'S JUST, AND DRIVING AT NIGHT, I, I'M SURPRISED WE'VE NOT HAD ACCIDENTS, SO I DON'T IS THAT REALISTIC, ANDY? YEAH, I JUST WANT TO GET CLARIFICATION.
I THINK WHAT YOU'RE, UM, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS YOU'D LIKE STAFF TO GO AHEAD AND REPAIR THESE ROADS AHEAD OF TIME BEFORE THIS MORE SIGNIFICANT WORK CAN OCCUR.
I, I'D LIKE FOR US TO AT LEAST HAVE THE ABILITY TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SHOULD THE CITY, UH, PONY UP THE DOLLARS TO GET THAT FIXED BECAUSE I THINK IT'S A REALLY SERIOUS, SERIOUS RISK IN THEIR CURRENT CONDITION.
AND IF WE HAVE TO WAIT ANOTHER THREE YEARS, THAT'S JUST NOT GOOD.
YEAH, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE
[02:20:01]
I WAS CLEAR.UM, THAT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING WE CAN LOOK AT AND WOULD BE A, A FAIRLY MINOR INCREASE IN COST TO OUR OVERALL PAVEMENT PROGRAM.
UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, OUR ANNUAL PROGRAM.
IF ANY OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE, UH, OBSERVED THE CONDITION OF THAT ROAD AND WOULD LIKE TO CHIME IN, I WOULD CERTAINLY BE HAPPY TO HEAR THEM CHIME IN AS SUCH.
BUT I KNOW THAT'S KIND OF GETTING INTO THE DISCUSSION PART HERE.
THAT TAKES CARE OF MY QUESTIONS.
THANK YOU MAYOR KATHY, KURT, THESE ARE TWO PROJECTS IN ONE APPLICATION.
WHY ARE THEY NOT TWO APPLICATIONS? BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY WANTED TO, YOU KNOW, GIVE YOU THE MONEY FOR ONE AND NOT THE OTHER, THIS WOULD KILL EVERYTHING.
SO IS THERE AN OPTION FOR THAT OR WHAT WAS YOUR THINKING? YEAH, BECAUSE THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT'S ALLOWED THROUGH THE PROCESS.
YOU CAN BRING AS MANY PROJECTS YOU CAN, SINCE WE'RE THE ENTITY OF PARTNERING BETWEEN THE FOREST SERVICE, THEN WE COULD BRING AS MANY PROJECTS AS WE WANT.
WE JUST THOUGHT THAT THESE WERE THE TWO BEST.
SO YOU CAN APPLY UNDER ONE AND, AND THEN THE COMMITTEE, IT'S BASICALLY CALL FOR PROJECTS.
THEY CAN PICK OR CHOOSE WHAT PROJECT WANT.
SO THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT ONE OF THESE COULD GET APPROVED AND THE OTHER NOT CORRECT.
JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE HIGHLY UNLIKELY KILLING THAT POSSIBILITY 'CAUSE THEY'RE BOTH, BOTH REALLY WELL MERITED.
AND THE, UH, MY NEXT QUESTION IS THE, THE LONG-TERM MAINTENANCE COSTS.
DO YOU HAVE A ROUGH BALLPARK ESTIMATE OF WHAT THAT MIGHT BE FOR OUR CONSIDERATION? YEAH, SO WE USUALLY DO OUR FAST PROJECTS.
SO ONCE THIS IS PAVED, USUALLY THE FEDERAL HIGHWAYS, THEY WOULD LIKE TO DO MORE OF A ROBUST PAYMENT, LIKE A A THREE INCHES ON FIVE INCHES OF AB.
WE WOULD JUST INCLUDE THAT WITH OUR FAST PROGRAM, OUR FRACTURED AGGREGATE SURFACE TREATMENT.
SO YOU'RE REALLY LOOKING AT, UM, FOR 50, YOU KNOW, SQUARE YARDS IS, YOU KNOW, ABOUT 200 BUCKS.
IT'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT OVERALL, UH, IT'S REALLY IS DOING THOSE, THIS, THIS GRANT WOULD DO THE FUNDAMENTALS OF GETTING THAT EDGE CONTROL AND THE DRAINAGE.
AND THEN ONCE THAT'S DONE IT WOULD BE EARLY MAINTENANCE AND IF IT'S NEW PAYMENT IT WOULD JUST BE A FOG SEAL FOR FIVE TO 10 YEARS BASED UPON HOW IT HOLDS UP.
IT'S NOT GETTING A WHOLE LOT OF TRAFFIC.
SO WE'RE EXPENDING IT TO LAST A LONG TIME.
THE BIGGER QUESTION I WOULD HAVE WAS LIKE ON CENTENNIAL, THE A DA UH, PATHWAY, WE WOULD NOT LIKE ASPHALT ON THAT.
WE WOULD LIKE A HARDER SURFACE LIKE CONCRETE 'CAUSE IT'S ACCESS GETTING ON THE FOREST AND THAT WOULD PROVIDE A LOT LONGER DURABLE SURFACE FOR THE HANDICAP WITH LESS TRIP HAZARDS.
SO THEY'LL THINK THE LIABILITY AND THE ACCESS THAT WOULD BE A MUCH BETTER VALUE.
UM, AND THERE'S, DO YOU HAVE A ROUGH ESTIMATE OF WHAT THE AMOUNT OF THIS WOULD BE? OH 'CAUSE THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO DOLLAR FIGURE IN HERE FOR THE APPLICATION, RIGHT? IT'S JUST CONCEPTS.
I MEAN, SO WHAT WE TRY TO DO IS FOCUS FOR PROJECTS THAT ARE FAR LESS THAN THAT 12 MILLION.
SO WE WERE TRYING TO GET SOMETHING LIKE LESS THAN A MILLION, UH, THREE QUARTERS TO A MILLION AND A HALF FOR EITHER PROJECT.
IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE FINAL SCOPE.
ABOUT TO ANSWER VICE MAYOR FO'S QUESTION.
I WAS ON THAT ROAD A WEEK AGO AND I WAS SURPRISED AT HOW MUCH ENCROACHMENT ONTO THE MAIN PA THE MAIN SECTION OF THE ROAD YOU ACTUALLY HAD TO, IT'S GETTING CLOSE TO, AND I THINK I ACTUALLY DID HAVE TO SWERVE A LITTLE BIT INTO THE OTHER LANE TO GET PAST SOME OF THOSE POTHOLES.
ANDY, I PERHAPS I MISHEARD SOMETHING THAT YOU SAID, BUT I THOUGHT I HEARD YOU SAY THAT ALL THESE, THESE PROJECTS ARE ALL WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS AND I THOUGHT THE NUY HILL WENT FROM THE CITY LIMITS TO THE HUCKABEE TRAILHEAD.
UM, SO IT, IT IS COMPLETELY WITHIN CITY LIMITS.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE GOT A MAP.
THERE IS A, HERE, PAGE NINE DOES HAVE SHOWS THE CITY LIMIT THERE.
YOU'VE GOT A RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE, OF THE SCREEN.
YOU CALL THAT THE CITY LIMITS IN GREEN THERE.
THIS IS THE CITY LIMITS RIGHT HERE.
SO IT WASN'T BUT THAT'S WHERE THE CATTLE GUARD USED TO BE.
THAT'S WHAT I WAS CLARIFYING EARLIER.
WHAT HE'S REFERRING TO IS PROPERTY OWNED BY THE CITY.
AND THE PROBLEM IS YOU'RE LOOKING AT A GOOGLE MAP RIGHT THERE THAT DOESN'T SHOW OUR BOUNDARIES.
I'M LOOKING AT A BOUNDARY MAP RIGHT NOW AND IT SHOWS THIS ENTIRE PROJECT WITHIN CITY LIMITS.
SO THAT MARKING OF CITY LIMITS ON PAGE NINE IS PROBABLY AN ERROR.
I I THINK THAT'S THE END OF THE CITY ROAD MAINTENANCE LIMITS.
THAT OLD CATTLE GUARD WAS WHERE THE BOUNDARY LINE BETWEEN CITY PROPERTY AND FOREST SERVICE SERVICE PROPERTY CAME TOGETHER.
DIFFERENT THINGS, NOT CITY LIMITS.
THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT.
AND, AND THEN JUST SO WE'RE ON THE TOPIC, PETE, IS THAT FROM THERE, THAT SNUGGLY HILL IS
[02:25:01]
WHAT I WAS DESCRIBING AT IS THE BIKE LANE? YEAH.SO WE WOULD THEN EXPAND THE ROAD TO ADD A BIKE LANE.
'CAUSE YOU CAN'T JUST STOP A, A PATHWAY, WHICH MAKES SENSE.
AND THEN MY LAST QUESTION, JUST INFORMATIONAL REALLY FOR ME IS WHAT KEPT THE CONNECTOR BETWEEN WEST SEDONA AND UPTOWN AS A CONNECTOR OFF THE LIST? IS IT JUST TOO BIG FOR THIS TYPE OF GRANT OR IT'S NOT DONE YET? I'M, I'M RIGHT IN OUR GO PLAN AND ONE OF OUR HIGHEST PRIORITIES IS CONNECTING WEST SEDONA TO UPTOWN WITH SOME TYPE OF PATH.
AND SO I'M CURIOUS WHY IT, IT DIDN'T, BECAUSE THE FOREST SERVICE DIDN'T PUT THAT AS THEIR HIGHEST PRIORITY.
SO IF WE COULD, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THE NEXT, EVERY THREE TO FIVE YEARS, SO THE NEXT ONE WE CAN THEN WORK WITH THEM TO BRING THAT UP AS THE RATE.
'CAUSE THE FOREST SERVICE HAD TO BRING ABOUT A DOZEN PROJECTS.
AND FROM THOSE WE WENT THROUGH WHAT BEST FIT FOR THIS APPLICATION FOR THIS YEAR IS A FOREST SERVICE AWARE THAT THAT CONNECTION IS ONE OF OUR HIGHEST PRIORITIES.
UM, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THAT'S GOING TO LIKE LAND IN THE, ON THE LAND.
UM, I THINK WE MOVED PROJECTS FORWARD ON THIS AREA WHERE WE HAD ALREADY SORT OF HAD PLANNING ON OUR, ON OUR END.
SO WESTERN GATEWAY SPECIFICALLY, WE HAD, UM, WE WERE PRETTY FAR DOWN THE, THE PLANNING PROCESS ON WESTERN GATEWAY AND THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE WERE TRYING TO TO MOVE THAT ONE FORWARD WHILE, WHILE THAT ONE CAME UP.
ADDITIONALLY, I WOULD SAY SLY POPPED IN, UM, SPECIFICALLY TO THE POINT I THINK IT WAS, UH, UH, A LOT OF PUBLIC COMMENTS ON THAT ROAD.
AND TRYING TO, TO TO DETERMINE, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT THE VALUE OF OF GOING AFTER, AFTER THAT PROJECT.
UM, THERE WERE OTHER GOOD PROJECTS ON THERE.
I THAT ONE DID NOT RAISE TO OUR, YOU KNOW, THAT ONE WAS NOT ON OUR LIST.
SO I HOPE IT'S ON THE LIST, YOU KNOW, IN GOING FROM NOW INTO THE FUTURE, IT IS THE BIGGEST INTERCONNECTIVITY BARRIER IN OUR CITY FOR MM-HMM
OTHER QUESTIONS? I HAVE QUESTIONS.
UH, I, YOU SAID THIS IS A CONCEPT AND THEN YOU ALSO SAID THAT WE WERE WELL SUITED AND, AND IN THE COMPETITIVE ENVIRONMENT, SO IF THIS IS A CONCEPT IS, AND YOU'RE AWARDED THIS, WHEN DO YOU ACTUALLY GIVE THEM ALL THE DETAILS OF THE PROJECT AND ALL THE FINANCIALS? YEAH, SO THAT'S, IS THAT PHASE TWO? YEAH.
SO YOU'RE JUST GIVING US APPROVAL TO APPLY.
WE SUBMIT FOR THE CALL OF PROJECTS, THERE'S A, A FEDERAL LANDS ACCESS COMMITTEE FOR ARIZONA AND THE WESTERN.
THEY LOOK THROUGH WHAT'S BEST COMPLIED AND THEN THEY DIVVY OUT WHAT PROJECTS.
BOTH OF THESE ARE ONE OF THESE PROJECTS.
WHEN THAT'S APPROVED, THEN FEDERAL HIGHWAYS EITHER IS GONNA DO THIS DEPENDING ON THE PROJECT AND THE SCOPE INTERNALLY WITH THEIR OWN DESIGN STAFF AND, AND, AND THEN, UM, OR A CONSULTANT.
THEN WE WOULD GO AND START PIECING THROUGH A WHOLE DESIGN FROM CONCEPT TO A DESIGN.
AND BASED ON THOSE, I'D BE BRINGING THOSE BACK TO YOU AND SHARING YOU THAT ON OUR QUARTERLY SIM UPDATE MEETINGS OF WHERE THEY AT IN THE DESIGN.
THESE ARE THE CRITERIA WE LOOKED AT.
WE MOVED IT FROM ONE SIDE TO THE OTHER BASED UPON COST, ACCESS, SAFETY, ALL THOSE OTHER COMPONENTS.
BUT WHAT IS THE DOLLAR AMOUNT THAT YOU'RE ASKING THEM FOR? YOU SAID THREE QUARTERS OF A MILLION TO A MILLION AND A HALF.
THAT'S JUST MY GUESS RIGHT NOW.
WE HAVEN'T COME UP WITH THE ESTIMATE BASED UPON THAT TO THIS DATE.
SO I JUST NEEDED TO GET BEFORE YOU FOR YOUR APPROVAL JUST TO APPLY.
BUT THE APPLICATION DOESN'T HAVE DOLLAR AMOUNTS IN IT.
SO RIGHT NOW WE ARE JUST AT THE CONCEPT DESIGN.
I'M GLAD TO SHARE THAT WITH THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE ONCE WE HAVE THE PACKET, BUT I DON'T WANT TO GIVE YOU SOMETHING AND THEN IT JUST KEEPS CHANGING.
SO THESE ARE JUST MY BEST ESTIMATES ON MY EXPERIENCE.
AND WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THESE PROJECTS ARE WELL POSITIONED? UH, BECAUSE THE CITY OF SEDONA IS SURROUNDED BY FEDERAL LANDS, THIS WHOLE PROGRAM IS DESIGNED FOR PROVIDING ACCESS FOR THE PUBLIC TO GET TO FEDERAL LANDS.
SO THEY, WHEN FEDERAL HIGHWAYS DESIGNED THIS, UM, IT WAS TO MEET FOR THIS ALSO, WE GOT THE VOLPI REPORT THAT WAS THROUGH OUR TRANSIT ADMINISTRATOR.
THE VOLPE PORT PLAN WAS AGAIN, TO ASSESS CHALLENGES WHERE THERE'S PUBLIX IN THESE RURAL COMMUNITIES.
[02:30:01]
'CAUSE THERE'S AN ECONOMIC DRIVER, THEY WANT TO HAND OUT THESE MONIES TO PROVIDE SAFETY, BUT ALSO THEN TO PROVIDE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES TO RURAL COMMUNITIES.SO THERE'S ALL THESE LITTLE METRICS THAT WE JUST CHECK OFF THE BOX THAT THE CITY OF SEDONA IS PERFECT FOR.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY, COMMENTS, EVERYONE SUPPORTIVE? AGAIN, I'D LIKE TO SEE IF THERE IS SUPPORT AMONGST THE DIOCESE TO PROVIDE DIRECTION TO STAFF TO PUT A PROPOSAL TOGETHER FOR REPAIRING THE, THE SAFETY DEFICIENCIES THAT ARE IN SCHLEY HILL ROAD CURRENTLY.
SHOULD THAT BE PART OF THE UPCOMING BUDGET DISCUSSIONS AND BE LIKE, ANDY, HAVE BIG A BIGGER THAN A BREAD BOX.
I MEAN, ANY IDEA WHAT WE'D BE TALKING ABOUT? LIKE IS IT BIG ENOUGH TO COUNCILOR ELLA'S POINT THAT IT WOULD NEED TO BE TALKED ABOUT IN THE BUDGET PRIORITY SETTING, UH, NEXT MONTH? UM, SO THAT WOULD BE A QUESTION ABOUT IF WE COULD FIT IT WITHIN OUR CURRENT PROGRAM.
AND I'M THINKING WE COULD, RIGHT? IT'S THE URGENCY OF THE MATTER FOR YOU COUNSELOR.
IT'S A REAL LOW DOLLAR POINT FOR US TO PROVIDE SOME PATCHING AND REPAIRS THERE SOON.
ONE, ONE CLARIFIER THAT I WOULD LIKE TO ASK IS IF PHIL HAS A, AN IDEA OF WHAT WILL BE REQUIRED ON, ON YOUR SIDE OF THINGS TO ALLOW THE CITY TO COME IN AND DO THIS MAINTENANCE.
SO, ON, ON FOR, FOR JUST THE, THE PATCHING SBB.
UM, WE WOULD, UH, ALL IT WOULD, MY UNDERSTANDING WOULD BE A, JUST A ROAD, UM, A ROAD WORK PERMIT.
SO IT SHOULDN'T SH NO NEPA NO, NO NEPA.
LONG WE STAY IN THE FOOTPRINT OF THE CURRENT DISTURBANCES IN THAT THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY ISSUE.
I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND WE WOULD TRIM BACK VEGETATION.
IT'S AN EASY FIX AND IT'S JUST, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE GOT THAT IN.
I THINK THE MICS WERE WORKING OF A LINE OF SIGHT.
SO I I IT SHOULDN'T BE THAT HIGH DOLLAR AMOUNT.
I'M NOT TALKING TENS OF THOUSANDS.
SO COUNSEL, ARE YOU SAYING THAT THAT STAFF SHOULD PREPARE THAT AND COME BACK AND PRESENT THAT TO COUNSEL OR THERE SHOULD JUST BE SOME SORT OF DIRECTION SOUNDS LIKE AT THAT PRICE TAG IT SHOULD JUST BE DIRECTION RIGHT NOW.
KURT, CAN WE DO THAT IN CONTEXT OF THIS ITEM THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING? YEAH, I I BELIEVE IT, IT'S REASONABLY RELATED, UH, TO THE ALREADY TO, TO THE SHARED USE PATH THAT'S ENVISIONED HERE.
DID I SUPPORT THAT? YEAH, I SUPPORT IT.
I MOVE TO AUTHORIZE THE CITY TO APPLY TO THE FEDERAL LANDS ACCESS PROGRAM, OTHERWISE KNOWN AS FLAP FOR FUNDING OF THE WESTERN GATEWAY TRAILHEAD PROJECT AND THE SCH NIBLEY HILL ROAD PROJECT IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE US FOREST SERVICE.
FURTHER AUTHORIZE THE CITY MANAGER TO EXECUTE ALL NECESSARY DOCUMENTS RELATED TO THE APPLICATION, INCLUDING THE FLAP ENDORSEMENT FORM AND TO COMMIT THE CITY TO THE REQUIRED MAINTENANCE RESPONSIBILITIES ASSOCIATED WITH THE PROJECTS SUBJECT TO APPROVAL OF THE WRITTEN DOCUMENTS BY THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND, SECOND.
I THINK MELISSA WAS OUTTA THE GATE.
OPPOSED? THANK YOU FOR YOUR COLLABORATION WITH US.
THAT'S REALLY GOOD THAT WE ARE WORKING TOGETHER AND YOU'RE MAKING IT.
WE'RE BOTH MAKING IT EASY FOR EACH OTHER.
ONE HAND IS WASHING THE OTHER IN THIS
[8.d. AB 3284 Presentation/discussion of economic outlook, year-to-date budget performance; Home Rule and Permanent Base Adjustment options. ]
32 84 PRESENTATION.DISCUSSION OF ECONOMIC OUTLOOK, YEAR TO DATE, BUDGET, PERFORMANCE, HOME RULE AND PERMANENT, PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT OPTIONS.
BARBARA, I COULDN'T FIGURE OUT A WAY TO MAKE THAT TITLE EXERCISE.
YOU NEED A GOOD ACRONYM LIKE FLAP
I FEEL LIKE FLAPS ABOUT THE WORST BUT YEP.
MEMBERS OF COUNCIL AND BARBARA WHITEHORN, DEPUTY CITY MANAGER.
AND WE'RE HERE TO DISCUSS KIND OF AN ECONOMIC UPDATE AND THE EXPENDITURE LIMITATION OPTIONS FOR THE CITY.
SO OUR THREE AREAS ARE THE ECONOMIC UPDATES, SOME BUDGETARY PERFORMANCE NUMBERS, AND THEN THE EXPENDITURE LIMIT.
[02:35:01]
SO RIGHT NOW IN AN OVERVIEW, WE'RE STILL UNCERTAIN, RIGHT? THERE'S NO WAY TO GET AWAY FROM THAT UNCERTAINTY LABEL FOR THE NATIONAL ECONOMY.UM, WHAT I FIND INTERESTING IS THAT THERE'S THIS EXPECTATION INDEX THAT IS AN INDICATOR OF HOW PEOPLE THINK THINGS ARE GONNA LOOK TOMORROW.
BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL SORT OF SHORT TERM WITHIN LIKE SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR.
WHEN THAT INDEX FALLS BELOW 80, IT OSTENSIBLY INDICATES A RECESSION.
WE HAVE BEEN LESS THAN 80 NATIONWIDE SINCE FEBRUARY.
SO WE'RE SEEING DECLINING CONFIDENCE.
I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT ECONOMISTS ARE NOT SAYING YO RECESSION, BUT I'LL GO INTO SOME THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE CITING AND THEY'RE LOOKING AT TO SORT OF SEE WHEN DOES THAT POINT COME? DOES IT COME? SO WE'LL SEE.
UM, THIS INDEX, IT'S ACTUALLY 1985, LIKE MY BAD ON THAT, THEY SET IT IN 84, 4 85 AS 100 THOUGH THE INDEX ITSELF WAS STARTED IN 1967.
I, I KNOW THIS EXCITING ECONOMIC HISTORY.
UM, BUT WE'VE SEEN A DECLINE IN CONSUMER CONFIDENCE TOO, WHICH IS KIND OF LIKE MY CONFIDENCE RIGHT NOW.
AND THEN THE EXPECTATIONS INDEX IS LOOKING FORWARD.
AND THEN THIS IS SOME FUN INFORMATION ABOUT THE CONSUMER CONFIDENCE INDEX THAT I WON'T READ TO YOU BECAUSE WHILE I THINK IT'S REALLY COOL, YOU CAN ALWAYS READ IT LATER IF YOU THINK IT'S AS COOL AS I THINK IT'S UM, CONSUMER SENTIMENT.
THIS IS ANOTHER UM, SURVEY THAT'S DONE.
UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN DOES THIS ONE.
UM, REALLY A WELL THOUGHT OF UH, SENTIMENT SURVEY AND WHAT THEY EVALUATE IN THIS IS ARE PEOPLE BUYING THE BIG THINGS? YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WHEN YOU DON'T FEEL CERTAIN ABOUT THE ECONOMIC IMPACT RIGHT NOW ON YOUR LIFE, LIKE YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT GONNA BUY A NEW HOME.
YOU MIGHT CONSIDER PUTTING OFF A NEW CAR PAYMENT, A NEW CAR, YOU KNOW, BRINGING ON THAT PAYMENT.
UM, WHITE GOODS LIKE REFRIGERATORS, WASHER DRYER, THOSE THINGS, THOSE DECLINE UM, IN TIMES LIKE THIS AS WELL.
SO WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF THAT.
THEY ARE STILL ECONOMISTS BEING THE GREAT, THEY ARE GENERALLY NOT SAYING WE ARE IN RECESSION.
HOWEVER, STATES REPRESENTING A THIRD OF OUR GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT ARE LIKE IN THE, WHAT THEY CALL TREADING WATER AND POSSIBLY WILL TIP OVER INTO RECESSION.
IF CALIFORNIA AND NEW YORK TIP INTO RECESSION, THE NATION WILL FOLLOW BECAUSE THEY ARE 14.3 AND 8% OF THE GDP, JUST THOSE TWO STATES RESPECTIVELY.
UM, AND YOU CAN SEE THIS IS THE NATIONAL, LIKE WHAT'S GOING ON IN OCTOBER OF 25.
SO JUST LAST MONTH THERE ARE SOME STATES THAT ARE STILL IN EXPANSION MODE.
WE ARE, WE STILL HAVE BUSINESSES COMING IN AND INVESTING TEXAS, OKLAHOMA, FLORIDA, NORTH AND SOUTH CAROLINA.
THERE ARE A FEW STATES, THE ONES THAT ARE TREADING WATER ARE REALLY THE ONES TO LOOK AT, ESPECIALLY NOW THAT AS OF OCTOBER, MICHIGAN IS CONSIDERED TO BE IN RECESSION.
THAT WAS KIND OF THE, THE THREE THAT THEY'VE BEEN WATCHING IS CALIFORNIA AND NEW YORK AND MICHIGAN AND MICHIGAN LIKE FELL INTO RECESSION LAST MONTH.
SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN LOCALLY? UM, WE'RE SEEING RETRENCHMENT, I KNOW I TALKED ABOUT THIS LIKE FUN WORD THAT I TOTALLY LOVE EVEN THOUGH IT'S A TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE THING.
BUT WHEN PEOPLE START REDUCING COSTS IN THEIR BUSINESS OR SPENDING IN RESPONSE TO ECONOMIC DIFFICULTY, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS DURING THE BUDGET DEVELOPMENT FOR THIS FISCAL YEAR AND I THINK THE CONTINUED ECONOMIC UNCERTAINTY AND THE ONGOING INDICATORS THAT PEOPLE ARE HEARING ABOUT, EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT LIKE, YOU KNOW, ECONOMICS NERDS LIKE I AM, YOU STILL HEAR LIKE RECESSION, RIGHT? YOU CAN GO TO STARBUCKS AND HEAR PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT RECESSION OR THE TV NEWS IS ON AT THE AIRPORT AND YOU HEAR RECESSION AND THAT REALLY COLORS CONSUMER CONFIDENCE, WHICH THEN DRIVES THE RECESSION ACTUALLY BECAUSE A RECESSION DOESN'T JUST HAPPEN OUT OF NOWHERE.
IT ACTUALLY COMES DOWN TO PEOPLE STOP SPENDING, THEY'RE UNCERTAIN ABOUT THE ECONOMY AND AS THAT HAPPENS THEN COMPANIES CUT COSTS.
SO IT'S LIKE THIS CASCADING EFFECT THAT LEADS THE COUNTRY INTO A RECESSION.
UM, I MEAN THERE CAN BE MASSIVE EVENTS THAT CAUSE IT LIKE COVID OR YOU KNOW, SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES.
BUT A GENERAL NORMAL RECESSIONARY TRACK IS WHERE YOU SEE THESE LIKE INDICATORS AND THEN PEOPLE SEE THOSE AND GO, OH NO, AND THEY CREATE MORE SORT OF SNOWBALLING.
ANY PROJECTION ON THAT THOUGH? I MEAN THEY'RE REALLY LIKE TWO KINDS OF RECESSIONS.
THERE ARE SHALLOW RECESSIONS AND THERE WERE DEEP RECESSIONS.
A SHALLOW RECESSION LIKE THE.COM, YOU KNOW, BUBBLE BURST AND THE DEEP RECESSION
[02:40:01]
OF THE HOUSING BUBBLE BURST.ANY THOUGHTS ON IN THIS PROGNOSIS OF WHICH KIND OF RECESSION WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? I THINK SOME OF IT'S GOING TO DEPEND ON THE SORT OF UNCERTAINTY AND THE POLICY DIRECTION CHANGES THAT WE'RE SEEING AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL.
I THINK THE POTENTIAL FOR A DEEPER RECESSION IS THERE, BUT I PERSONALLY WOULD SAY WE ARE IN A SHALLOW RECESSION RIGHT NOW.
I DON'T THINK WE ARE ALMOST IN A RECESSION.
I JUST THINK PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS RELUCTANT TO SAY SO BECAUSE ONCE YOU PUT THAT OUT THERE AND YOU SAY YES, THE COUNTRY'S IN A RECESSION, PEOPLE SAY, OH MY GOD, WE'RE IN A RECESSION.
AND IT BECOMES REALITY EVEN IF IT ISN'T QUITE YET.
I WOULD SAY WE PROBABLY, IF WE'RE NOT IN THE SHALLOW RECESSION ALREADY, WE'RE AWFULLY, AWFULLY CLOSE.
I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU CAN BE UNDER THAT 80 THRESHOLD FOR NINE MONTHS, EIGHT MONTHS I GUESS AND STILL CLAIM LIKE IT'S ALL GOOD.
YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT REALLY A RECESSION.
UM, WE'RE CONTINUING TO SEE TOURIST ACTIVITY SLOW DOWN.
IT'S BEEN AN INTERESTING SUMMER FOR THE WAY SALES AND BED TAX CAME IN AND I'LL, YOU KNOW, KIND OF GET INTO THESE, UM, SALES TAX IS SEEING A, A DOWNWARD TREND.
I MEAN WE SAW SORT OF TEPID INCREASES IN APRIL AND MAY, JUNE COLLECTIONS WERE MUCH LOWER THAN MAY AND LOWER THAN THE PREVIOUS JUNE.
AND THEN JULY SAW A HUGE JUMP.
WE REALLY BELIEVE, AND THIS IS WHAT TOOK US WITH JULY SO LONG BECAUSE WE WERE TRYING TO CORRELATE WHAT HAPPENED IN JUNE, WHICH WAS THIS MASSIVE DIP AND THEN THIS HUGE INCREASE FOR BOTH SALES AND BED TAX IN JULY.
THAT DOESN'T REALLY CORRELATE TO ANY REALITY WE'RE SEEING.
WE DIDN'T SEE LIKE DOUBLE THE TRAFFIC IN JULY THAT WE DID IN JUNE.
SO WE, WE'VE SPENT, AND ANDREW, I HAVE TO GIVE A SHOUT OUT TO ANDREW GROSSMAN BECAUSE HE SPENT A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF TIME FIGURING OUT THE TIMING AND SOME OF THE PAYMENTS.
AND WE THINK A LOT OF HOTELS THAT DON'T, 'CAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY MONTHLY, RIGHT? THEY HAVE TO PAY QUARTERLY, BUT THEY CAN PAY QUARTERLY, THEY CAN PAY EVERY OTHER MONTH.
THEY CAN PAY MONTHLY AND THEY CAN CHANGE IT UP.
AND WHEN WE SEE SOMETHING LIKE THIS, I THINK WHAT WE'RE SEEING WHEN WE LOOK AT THESE MONTHLY SALES TAX AND YOU SEE JUNE OF 25 IS THE VERY LAST COLUMN TO THE RIGHT, THE BLUE ON THE END.
AND THEN JULY IS THIS IS THE PURPLE SPIKE UP BECAUSE IT'S THE NEW FISCAL YEAR AND THEN AUGUST KIND OF LEVELED OUT AND IT WAS AUGUST THAT HAS KIND OF MADE US FEEL, OKAY WE THINK THIS IS WHAT WE'RE SEEING, BUT WE HAVEN'T SPENT THE AMOUNT OF TIME ON AUGUST TO REALLY BE SURE OF THAT.
BUT IT DOES LOOK MORE LIKE RATHER THAN AN INCREDIBLE DIP AND AN INCREDIBLE INCREASE, WE'RE JUST SEEING A SMOOTHING AS PAYMENTS COME IN, WHICH IS FRUSTRATING FROM A TRACKING POINT OF VIEW, BUT THEY'RE PAYING.
SO I CAN'T REALLY ARGUE WITH THE MONEY IS STILL COMING IN.
UM, BED TAX, WE'VE SEEN VERY SIMILAR RESULTS.
UM, IT WAS A LITTLE MORE OBVIOUS WHEN IT CAME TO THE CHANGES MONTH OVER MONTH AND YEAR OVER YEAR.
JULY LOOKS CRAZY ON HERE, THAT PURPLE LINE ON JULY FOR 25, THAT'S WHEN WE WERE LIKE, WHOA, SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT.
AND YOU KNOW, WE SAW THIS LOW JUNE, THIS REALLY HIGH JULY AND THEN AUGUST CAME IN JUST A LITTLE UNDER LAST YEAR.
SO IT REALLY FEELS LIKE JUNE AND JULY WERE MORE LIKELY UNDERPERFORMING COMPARED TO LAST YEAR.
I THINK REALITY WAS, IT'S JUST THIS LIKE REALLY NOT WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE.
BUT BUDGETARILY WE'RE, WE'RE STILL OKAY.
AND I DO THINK THIS IS RETRENCHMENT.
I THINK PEOPLE HAVE JUST BEEN UNCERTAIN ABOUT WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN AND THEY ARE NOT SPENDING MONEY.
I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU BARBARA.
SO YOU'RE NOT GOING TO ATTEMPT, WELL I'M ANSWERING THE QUESTION, BUT ARE YOU GOING TO ATTEMPT TO TAKE SOME OF THOSE JULY AND APPLY IT TO JUNE JUST TO GET A VIEW? IS THAT POSSIBLE? WE CAN ACTUALLY, AND WE'RE LOOKING AT LIKE HOW WE CAN SMOOTH THOSE SO THAT WE SEE MORE OF A REALITY.
BECAUSE WHEN, WHEN WE LET IT DO THOSE SPIKES LIKE THAT WE'RE CREATING THIS WEIRD TREND THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
[02:45:01]
TO FIGURE OUT IS, OKAY, WHAT HOTELS PAID GENERALLY MONTHLY LIKE MARCH, APRIL, MAY AND THEN DIDN'T PAY IN JUNE AND PAID IN JULY OR DIDN'T PAY MAY OR JUNE AND PAID IN JULY.AND YOU KNOW, SOME OF THAT MAY BE THAT THEY'RE SORT OF RETRENCHING TOO, RIGHT? AND THEY'RE LIKE, OH YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE TO PAY THIS UNTIL THE END OF JUNE OR OR UNTIL JULY, SO WE'LL JUST SIT ON IT.
WHICH I MEAN, IT'S NOT MY BUSINESS SO I CAN'T SPEAK TO WHETHER THAT'S A GOOD IDEA OR NOT, BUT I CAN KIND OF SEE HOW THAT COULD BE WHAT'S HAPPENING.
SO WITH THAT IN MIND, AND SINCE JUNE 30TH IS THE END OF OUR FISCAL YEAR, WHEN WILL YOU BE ABLE TO GIVE US A VIEW OF WHAT, WHERE OUR NUMBERS WERE OF MORE LIKE A REAL TREND? YEAH, I SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE SOME IDEA OF THAT FOR YOU AT THE RETREAT.
UM, 'CAUSE WE WILL ALSO HAVE SEPTEMBER FULLY BY THEN AND WE SHOULD REALLY HAVE A BETTER IDEA OF WHICH ACCOUNTS BELONG TO WHICH PROPERTIES.
'CAUSE A LOT OF PROPERTIES REPORT IN UNDER MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS WITH THE STATE.
UM, SO IT'S, IT'S REALLY KIND OF CRAZILY COMPLEX IN A WAY THAT I DIDN'T EXPECT IT TO BE.
I WOULD THINK THAT LIKE SALES TAX PAID BY, YOU KNOW, JOE'S MOTEL ON THE CORNER AND BED TAX PAID BY HIM IS GONNA BE CONSISTENTLY UNDER AN ACCOUNT THAT'S LIKE JOE'S MOTEL ON THE CORNER, NOT SO MUCH.
IT MIGHT BE JOE'S PROPERTIES NUMBER 1564 AND JOE'S MOTEL NUMBER THREE.
AND THERE MIGHT BE LIKE FOUR DIFFERENT ACCOUNTS OR SIX OR 10 THAT ALL RELATE TO THE SAME PROPERTY AND IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE WAY THEY ARE TRACKING IT, LIKE FOR THEIR OWN PURPOSES AND REPORTING IT.
AND AS LONG AS THEY'RE PAYING IT CORRECTLY THAT I DON'T THINK THE STATE CARES AND THEY PROBABLY SHOULDN'T.
LIKE IF YOU WANNA HAVE 16 ACCOUNTS, YOU HAVE 16 ACCOUNTS.
IF IT HELPS YOU LIKE KEEP YOUR BOOKS, IT'S FRUSTRATING FROM MY PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE I CAN'T COME TO YOU AND SAY THIS IS ABSOLUTELY WHAT HAPPENED MONTH OVER MONTH.
UM, WE HAVEN'T SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE SEEN THESE BIG SPIKES LIKE THIS.
SO I AM, I AM EAGER TO SEE IF WE CONTINUE TO SEE THEM AS IF PEOPLE ARE NOT PAYING OR IF IT'S SOMETHING MAYBE THE STATE DIDN'T UPDATE IN THAT TIME PERIOD.
THEY HAVEN'T SAID SO, BUT I MEAN THERE'S SO MANY POSSIBILITIES THAT COULD DRIVE STRANGE NUMBERS, YOU KNOW, BUT I, I REALLY DO WANNA BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU A COUPLE MORE MONTHS BEFORE WE SAY IT'S ALL GOOD OR LET'S, LET'S GET SERIOUS AND, AND LOOK AT THIS MORE CLOSELY.
AND I, I THINK WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO TRACK IT BECAUSE IT'S, WE'RE REALLY SEEING TEPID RETURNS, RIGHT? WE'RE JUST NOT SEEING A LOT OF YEAR OVER YEAR INCREASES IN COLLECTIONS.
AND I KNOW THAT'S DIFFICULT ON OUR TOURISM BUSINESSES, BUT WHAT I WANTED TO POINT OUT WITH THIS SLIDE IS THAT BUDGETARILY, WE ARE STILL IN IN GOOD SHAPE.
LIKE FOR JULY, JULY AND AUGUST.
THAT'S REALLY ALL WE HAD AT THIS POINT WAS, YOU KNOW, WE WERE AT 13.7% LAST YEAR WITH THOSE TWO MONTHS FOR SALES TAX THIS YEAR IT'S 14.5.
SAME KIND OF TREND WITH BED TAX, 11.4 AND 13.4.
WE KEPT THE BUDGET FLAT AS YOU RECALL.
SO I DON'T, WE'RE NOT SEEING GREAT RESULTS.
THEY'RE NOT BAD, BUT THEY'RE NOT SPECTACULAR.
BUT I DON'T WANT YOU ALL TO THINK THAT THIS INDICATES LIKE WE'RE IN A REALLY BAD BUDGETARY SPOT BECAUSE WE'RE NOT, WE'RE STILL OUTPERFORMING THE BUDGET.
SO SPEAKING OF BUDGET, I WANTED TO GIVE YOU JUST A GLIMPSE OF WHAT DEPARTMENTS, LIKE HOW WE'RE PERFORMING SO FAR.
AND QUARTER ONE IS ALWAYS ONE OF THOSE, LIKE WE'RE DOING RFPS, WE'RE PUTTING THINGS OUT TO BID, WE'RE KIND OF RAMPING UP THE PARTICULARLY CAPITAL BUDGET, UM, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S LIKE NEW PROJECTS.
SO SEEING 10% OF THE CAPITAL BUDGET ACTUALLY SPENT LIKE CASH OUT THE DOOR IS NOT UNUSUAL AND 60% OF THE TOTAL CAPITAL BUDGET IS ENCUMBERED.
SO WE ALREADY HAVE THOSE CONTRACTS IN PLACE AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT AT THAT WHEN YOU SEE LIKE A 10% AND IT'S LIKE, WHY ARE YOU NOT SPENDING, WE ARE BUT WE'RE ON THE PLACE WHERE WE'RE LIKE, WE'RE GONNA OWE THIS GUY MONEY WHEN HE FINISHES WHATEVER.
SO THAT'S THE POINT WHERE WE ARE OPERATING BUDGET.
WE'RE ALSO, UM, AT 25% OF THE YEAR, 16% OF THE BUDGET SPENT
[02:50:01]
IS NOT REALLY UNUSUAL.I THINK BEING WITHIN 10% AT THIS POINT IS, IS PRETTY REASONABLE.
UM, WE DO HAVE MOST OF THE DRIVERS FOR THAT ARE BUDGETS FOR CONTRACTS AND PROFESSIONAL SERVICES, WHICH WOULD BE TYPICAL BECAUSE USUALLY WE WOULD GO OUT TO BID OR DO AN RFP OR THOSE THINGS THAT TIMING ON THOSE MIGHT BE, MIGHT NOT BE IMMEDIATE.
UM, LAST YEAR AT THIS TIME WE HAD VACANCY SAVINGS THAT WERE LIKE DRIVING ALL OF THE BUDGET SAVINGS, IF YOU WILL.
THIS YEAR NOT SO MUCH, WHICH IS ACTUALLY REALLY GOOD.
I MEAN, WE STILL HAVE SOME VACANCY SAVINGS, BUT WE'RE NOT SEEING THE REALLY HUGE VACANCY SAVINGS THAT WE DID LAST YEAR.
SO I I THINK THAT'S VERY GOOD.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE TURN TURNOVER RATE IS? OH GOSH, OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
SO THIS YEAR I DON'T, I CAN FIND OUT FROM RUSS THOUGH AND I'M SORRY I SHOULD HAVE HAD THAT.
AND SO CONSIDERATIONS AS WE MOVE INTO, YOU KNOW, CONTINUING FISCAL 26 AND PLANNING FOR 27 IS THAT REVENUE SO FAR AS WITHIN BUDGET TOLERANCES, WE ARE CONTINUING TO MONITOR THE SALES AND BED CHECKS TRENDS AND REALLY DIGGING INTO THOSE NUMBERS.
AND OBVIOUSLY IT WAS PRUDENT YOUR DIRECTION TO KEEP REVENUES FLAT YEAR OVER YEAR.
I THINK THAT WAS AN EXCELLENT DECISION.
UM, AND HOPEFULLY THINGS WILL START TO IMPROVE, BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO ASSUME RIGHT NOW THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO IMMEDIATELY THAT THIS IS LIKE A, WE'RE IN THAT SPACE OF THINGS ARE NOT GONNA LIKE TANK, BUT THEY'RE NOT GONNA GET SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER RIGHT NOW.
UM, SOMETHING THAT I ACTUALLY TALKED TO THE, UM, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF GFOA, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BEING SALES TAX DEPENDENT AND, AND BED TAX.
AND HE WAS SAYING HE HAD WORKED FOR A CITY SOME YEARS AGO THAT WAS THE SAME, THAT THEY WERE MOSTLY SALES TAX.
THEY STILL HAD A PROPERTY TAX AND HE DEVELOPED A TAX RESERVE SPECIFICALLY TO MITIGATE POTENTIAL DOWNTURNS IN THE ECONOMY THAT IMPACT SALES AND BED TAX.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING, UM, WE MAY WISH TO CONSIDER.
WE ALREADY DO HAVE SIGNIFICANT RESERVES BECAUSE OF OUR VOLATILITY AND OUR EXTRA RISK.
UM, BUT HAVING A RESERVE THAT IS SPECIFICALLY DEDICATED TO COVERING, YOU KNOW, REVENUES THAT AREN'T RECEIVED BECAUSE OF A, AN ECONOMIC DOWNTURN, UM, IT'S ALWAYS A, A, A GOOD POSSIBILITY TO EXPLORE.
SO ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS BEFORE I MOVE INTO THE EXPENDITURE LIMIT? OKAY.
SO WE ALL KIND OF KNOW THIS, BUT I ALWAYS WANNA MAKE SURE I GO OVER IT FOR PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE WATCHING AND HAVEN'T HEARD IT BEFORE.
SO SORRY IF I'M LIKE GIVING YOU INFORMATION YOU TOTALLY KNOW.
UM, IT'S IN THE CONSTITUTION ARTICLE NINE, SUBSECTION 20, THE EXPENDITURE LIMITATION, AS YOU ALL KNOW, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S TO PREVENT CITIES AND COUNTY, COUNTIES FROM OVERSPENDING.
TAX DOLLARS IS LIKE THE STATED PURPOSE.
UM, IT'S, IT'S KIND OF INTERESTING THE WAY IT ACTUALLY PLAYS OUT THOUGH, AND I'LL GET TO THAT IN THE NEXT SLIDE.
BUT THE CALCULATION IS BASED ON A 1980 BUDGET.
OF COURSE OURS IS LIKE A CALCULATED BUDGET BY THE STATE.
'CAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE A 1980 BUDGET AND THEN A 1978 POPULATION.
AND THOSE ARE ADJUSTED WITH FACTORS FOR POPULATION GROWTH AND INFLATION.
THEY GAVE US A BASE BUDGET IN 1980 OF 2.9 MILLION.
OUR POPULATION FACTOR AND THE POPULATION AND THE INFLATION FACTORS CHANGE EVERY YEAR POPULATION BASED ON OUR ESTIMATED POPULATION.
AND THEN INFLATION, THEY USE THE SAME INFLATION NUMBER FOR THE ENTIRE STATE.
THAT'S THE CALCULATION AND THE LIMIT.
AND AT THE BOTTOM I JUST HAVE THAT ASTERISK BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T MATH.
IF YOU ACTUALLY MULTIPLY THOSE NUMBERS, I NEVER GET 15 4 1, 1, 5, 4, 2, I GET CLOSE, BUT I NEVER GET THERE.
AND SO I ALWAYS FEEL LIKE I HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING 'CAUSE I'M LIKE, I DIDN'T DO THAT MATH.
UM, AND IT JUST NEVER, IT JUST NEVER WORKS.
SO OUR BUDGET THIS YEAR THAT'S SUBJECT TO THE LIMIT IS ABOUT $81 MILLION, SO SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER.
WHAT I FIND REALLY INTERESTING IS THAT IF YOU DON'T CHOOSE TO USE ONE OF THE, THE METHODS TO, YOU KNOW, AN ALTERNATIVE METHOD TO THAT STATE LIMIT, IT'S YOUR, YOUR EXPENDITURES ARE LIMITED.
LIKE WE CAN'T SPEND MONEY, RIGHT? BUT REVENUE JUST KEEPS PILING INTO THE BANK AND IT JUST, WE CAN INVEST IT, BUT WE CAN'T SPEND IT.
SO IT'S A VERY SORT OF INTERESTING DICHOTOMY BETWEEN WE WANNA STOP YOU FROM SPENDING,
[02:55:01]
BUT WE'RE NOT GONNA STOP YOU FROM COLLECTING TAXES.SO THEN I KNOW Y'ALL REMEMBER THESE FROM LAST YEAR, AND THESE ARE LAST YEAR'S SLIDES AND I JUST HIGHLIGHTED THAT I KNOW FOR SURE NOW THAT DEBT SERVICES EXCLUDED AND THESE ARE THE REQUIRED FUNCTIONS.
AND THEN IF YOU TAKE OUT DEBT SERVICE, IT'S ABOUT 30 MILLION LAST YEAR.
AND THEN OTHER FUNCTIONS WERE ABOUT 54 MILLION.
AND IF WE HAD THE EXPENDITURE LIMIT, IT WOULD TAKE OUT, WE COULD ONLY FUND 51% OF REQUIRED OPERATIONS.
SO IT'S A, IT, IT'S A SIGNIFICANT CHALLENGE.
AND WHAT I ALSO FIND FASCINATING IS THAT 90% OF CITIES USE AN ADJUSTMENT MODEL.
SO OVER TIME, LIKE THAT NUMBER HAS GONE UP AND UP AND UP BECAUSE THE LIMIT HAS BECOME LESS APPLICABLE.
IT MOVES SORT OF FURTHER FROM ECONOMIC AND BUDGETARY REALITY FOR CITIES BECAUSE EVERYBODY'S ECONOMY IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.
I MEAN, MAYBE IF YOU'RE IN THE VALLEY AND IT'S ALL LIKE SUBURBS OF KIND OF THE SAME METRO, THERE'S PROBABLY A REASONABLE ASSUMPTION THAT EVERYONE'S INFLATION IS SIMILAR, RIGHT? BUT WHEN YOU HAVE FLAGSTAFF AND SEDONA AND PRESCOTT AND YOU COMPARE THAT TO THE VALLEY OR TO TUCSON, THOSE ARE VERY, VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.
AND THEY HAVE, AND WE HAVE DIFFERENT PRESSURES DRIVING INFLATION.
SO I THINK THAT, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THE TOPOGRAPHY, COMMUTING WORKERS AND VISITORS, ALL THOSE THINGS IMPACT CITIES AND THEY'RE NOT INCLUDED IN THE MODEL.
SO AS FAR AS THE EXPENDITURE LIMIT, EVERY CITY HAS THREE OPTIONS SAYING, YEAH, WE'RE GONNA GO WITH THE STATE LIMIT HOME RULE, WHICH IS OF COURSE WHAT WE HAVE DONE IN THE PAST.
AND IF WE WANT TO CONTINUE HOME RULE, WHICH REPLACES THAT STATE LIMIT WITH THE ANNUAL ADOPTED BUDGET, WE NEED, UM, A NEW ELECTION IN 2026 TO RENEW IT.
AND THAT HAS TO BE RENEWED EVERY FOUR YEARS.
THEN THERE'S THE PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT, WHICH ACTUALLY TAKES THAT 1980 BASE BUDGET OF 2.9 MILLION AND SAYS NOW WE'RE GONNA INCREASE THAT BASE BY HOWEVER MUCH.
AND THEN THAT BASE BUDGET IS MULTIPLIED BY THE INFLATION FACTOR AND THE POPULATION FACTOR AND THAT IT'S ALSO HAS TO GO TO THE VOTERS, BUT IT ISN'T VOTED ON, ON LIKE A, A TIMEFRAME.
IT'S ACTUALLY VOTED ON WHEN A CITY OR A COUNTY REALIZES, OKAY, WE'RE GETTING CLOSE TO THAT LIMIT AGAIN, LET'S GO MAKE ANOTHER ADJUSTMENT.
AND, UM, TALKED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE, BUT MESA ESTIMATED IN THEIR 2024 ELECTION FOR A NEW PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT THAT IT WOULD BE 30 YEARS UNTIL THEY HAD TO GO BACK TO THE VOTERS.
AND SCOTTSDALE ALSO HAD AN ELECTION IN 2024 AND THEY WENT 18 YEARS BETWEEN THEIR ELECTIONS.
UM, HERE ARE EXAMPLES OF CITIES USING A PBA THAT I THINK ALL OF THESE DID 2024 ELECTIONS.
I COULDN'T FIND THE PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE VOTING YES FOR COURT SIDE IN YOUNGTOWN, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SEE LIKE MESA, THEIR, THEIR BUDGET LIMIT FOR 2026 WAS OVER 3 BILLION, BUT THEIR BASE BUDGET THAT THEY ADJUSTED IS 202 MILLION.
AND IT'S, IT'S AN INTERESTING THING BECAUSE EVERY, EVERY CITY IS DIFFERENT AND YOU'RE ADJUSTING JUST THAT BASE.
SO THEN YOU MULTIPLY IT BY THOSE FACTORS.
SO SOME CITIES LIKE, YOU KNOW, QUARTZITE DID 2.85 INCREASE TO GET TO 3.8 AND THAT BROUGHT THEIR LIMIT UP TO 16.6, WHICH FOR THEM IS, IS SOLID.
AND YOU KNOW, THEY CAN, THEY CAN USE THAT.
AND THEN I PUT TOGETHER THIS SLIDE TO JUST SORT OF DEMONSTRATE IF SEDONA WANTED TO LOOK AT A PBA, LIKE WHAT'S OUR CURRENT BASE BUDGET AND WHAT DIFFERENT LEVELS OF INCREASE WOULD LOOK LIKE TODAY.
I DON'T HAVE NEXT YEAR'S NUMBERS YET, SO I CAN'T SAY LIKE WHAT THOSE WILL BE, BUT THAT'S WHAT THE LIMIT ON THE FAR RIGHT WOULD BECOME GIVEN THE INCREASE IN THE SECOND COLUMN.
SO THAT'S REALLY JUST FOR INFORMATION, YOU KNOW, SHOULD THAT BE, YOU KNOW, A DIRECTION THAT COUNCIL WANTS TO GO EITHER FOR 2026 OR FOR 2030? YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE, WE HAVEN'T SPENT, OUR COMMUNITY'S NOT AS FAMILIAR WITH PBA AS WITH HOME RULE.
SO THERE IS SOME RISK IF WE WERE TO CHANGE THAT.
LIKE RIGHT NOW AS WE'RE HEADING INTO ANOTHER HOME RULE ELECTION, UM, I THINK IT MIGHT BE EASIER TO CONTINUE HOME RULE
[03:00:01]
AND START AN INTENSIVE EDUCATIONAL CAMPAIGN INTO WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE.AND YOU KNOW, THEN IN A, IN A FEW YEARS GO BACK.
SO WE DID HAVE A CITIZEN PROPOSED PBA IN 2018 AND IT PROPOSED, UH, AN INCREASE IN THE BASE OF SLIGHTLY LESS THAN WHAT THE BASE IS.
SO 2.5 MILLION AND THAT WOULD'VE MADE OUR EXPENDITURE LIMIT ABOUT 28.8 MILLION.
SO JUST KIND OF INFORMATION AND THEN OF COURSE WHICHEVER DIRECTION, UM, THAT COUNCIL GIVES FOR THIS WILL REQUIRE, YOU KNOW, COMMUNITY EDUCATION ABOUT THE LIMIT AND, AND WHAT IT MEANS IF WE DON'T ADOPT AN ALTERNATIVE AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE IMPACT? LIKE REVENUES, WE KEEP BRINGING 'EM IN, WE JUST CAN'T SPEND THEM.
AND OF COURSE WE CAN ALL EDUCATE, BUT WE CAN'T ADVOCATE.
ALL RIGHT, SO DISCUSSION QUESTIONS? QUESTIONS, NO QUESTIONS.
NOW TODAY, THIS IS FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES.
YES, YES, I WOULD, I WOULD SAY THAT IT'S IMPORTANT GIVEN THE TIMING FOR AN ELECTION THAT, UM, COUNCIL CAN PROVIDE STAFF DIRECTION ON WHICH WAY TO GO AT THE RETREAT BECAUSE WE DO NEED TO KNOW JOANNE, IT'S IN JANUARY RIGHT TO DO THE ELECTION.
WE'VE GOT SCHEDULED FOR THE 27TH OF JANUARY.
AND MADAM MAYOR, GOSH, EXCUSE ME, UM, IF YOU WANNA GIVE FEEDBACK TO US TONIGHT ON, UH, ADDITIONAL INFORMATION YOU WANNA HEAR ON THESE TWO TOPICS OR ANYTHING OF SPECIAL INTERESTS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE STAFF TO WORK ON SO THAT WE KNOW WHAT, UM, TO BRING BACK TO YOU FOR THE MORE, UM, FOR THE DISCUSSION AND DIRECTION AT THE RETREAT, THAT WOULD BE GREAT TONIGHT.
YOUR REFLECTIONS, ANY, UM, YOU KNOW, ADDITIONAL THINGS YOU'D LIKE TO LEARN ABOUT THAT TOPIC.
SO TIM, GOOD EVENING COUNSELORS.
MY NAME IS TIM PERRY AND I LIVE IN SEDONA.
SO HOME ROLLER AT THIS DISCUSSION, AGAIN, OUR NEW COUNCIL LEADERS AND ALL OF THE FINALISTS FOR THE VACANT COUNCIL SEAT KEEP TELLING US THAT THEY WANT TO RESTORE COMMUNITY TRUST IN THE CITY.
WHY WOULD YOU EXPECT US TO TRUST YOU IF YOU CONTINUE TO THINK THAT YOU CAN CONTINUE TO WASTE A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR DURING A PREVIOUS BUDGET DISCUSSION? I BELIEVE IT WAS DEREK FAFF WHO SAID, UH, HYPERBOLICALLY THAT IT, IF SEDONA HAD TO GO BACK TO A $15 MILLION BUDGET, THAT WOULD BE WELL BASICALLY ANARCHY.
THE SAME KIND OF ANARCHY THAT, UH, SEDONA HAD 40 YEARS AGO WHEN THERE WAS NO CITY OF SEDONA.
THERE WAS NO A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS BUDGET.
INSTEAD PEOPLE FORMED LOCAL ORGANIZATIONS, THE LIBRARY, THE CHAMBER, THE ARTS CENTER, THE ROTARY CLUBS, THEY ORGANIZED THINGS FOR THEMSELVES, THEY BUILT ROADS, THEY HAD EVENTS AND BY ALL ACCOUNTS THEY HAD A MUCH BETTER COMMUNITY BACK THEN WHEN THEY DID THINGS FOR THEMSELVES RATHER THAN HIRING BUREAUCRATS TO DO THEM THAN WE DO TODAY.
THERE WAS THAT SENSE OF COMMUNITY.
WE SO OFTEN HEAR SEDONA IS LACKING AND THEY DID IT ALL ON MUCH LESS THAN $15 MILLION PROBABLY ON LESS THAN ONE AND A HALF SEDONAS OWN HISTORY IS PROOF THAT SEDONA CAN GO BACK TO A LEAN COMMUNITY-BASED STYLE OF GOVERNANCE INSTEAD OF THROWING NINE FIGURES AROUND EVERY YEAR.
THERE'S A SENTIMENT I HEAR A LOT IN THE COMMUNITY IN ALMOST THE SAME WORDS.
I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE WITH IT, IT'S TOO MILD FOR ME, BUT IT DOES REFLECT THE VIEW OF A LOT OF PEOPLE.
THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS NECESSARY.
PARKS AND REC PUTS ON GOOD EVENTS.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE 150 OF YOU, THE REST OF YOU PEOPLE DO.
IT IS GOING TO BE VERY ENTERTAINING OVER THE COURSE OF THE NEXT YEAR AS WE COME UP TO THIS ELECTION TO LOOK AT ALL THE POSSIBLE ALTERNATIVE BUDGETS THAT WE COULD HAVE.
INSTEAD, BUDGETS THAT WILL MEET THE $15 MILLION LIMIT AND WE'LL COVER EVERYTHING THE COMMUNITY REALLY WANTS.
THEY'LL JUST GET RID OF THE $20 MILLION IN STAFF SALARIES AND THE $46 MILLION IN CAPITAL PROJECTS TO PAT STAFF'S RESUMES.
WE DON'T KNOW, WE KNOW WE DON'T NEED THAT.
WHAT WILL ALSO BE FUN IS KEEPING AN EYE ON YOU GUYS TO SEE JUST WHEN YOU GO OVER THE LINE THAT SE SEPARATES EDUCATION FROM ELECTION INTERFERENCE.
I HAVE A POSITION ONE OF YOU HAS ALREADY DONE IT.
NEXT TIME I'LL BE THERE WAITING,
[03:05:02]
LET THE SPORT COMMENCE.OKAY, ANY COMMENTS? I YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT PBAI DON'T WANNA TALK ABOUT, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANNA SAY BECAUSE
UM, HOWEVER, HOME RULE, AS BARBARA POINTED OUT, OUR RESIDENTS ARE MORE FAMILIAR WITH.
SO I AM CURIOUS ABOUT THE, THE EDUCATION PART THAT WOULD HAVE TO GO INTO PVA BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULDN'T, I THINK BE DISMISSED OUT OF HAND.
I JUST THINK THE NUMBER THAT WE'D HAVE TO SET IT, THAT WOULD BE SO HIGH THAT THAT WOULD SEND THE WRONG MESSAGE AND BE UNPALATABLE.
BUT IT'S A QUESTION THAT WE ALWAYS SEEM TO SHY AWAY FROM.
SO I THROW IT OUT THERE FOR DISCUSSION PLUS ONE, ONE PART, ONE ENDING THOUGHT ON THAT HOME RULE TO ME MAKES SENSE BECAUSE WE'RE, THIS MONEY IS COMING IN AN INCOME AND IT GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEND WHAT WE ARE, YOU KNOW, RAISING OR NOT SPEND IT AND HAVE A HEALTHY, YOU KNOW, RESERVE FUND, UM, FUND BALANCES.
BUT A AGAIN, I JUST DON'T, I JUST DON'T, I THINK THAT WE SHOULDN'T BE DISMISSIVE OF PBA.
WE NEED TO REALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT THAT MEANS AND WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE.
I WONDER IF THE PUBLIC DOESN'T UNDERSTAND PBAA LITTLE MORE THAN WHAT WE MIGHT THINK BECAUSE THEY'VE HAD TO VOTE ON IT AT THE COUNTY LEVEL, RIGHT? I BELIEVE BOTH OF OUR COUNTIES HAD PBA ON THE LAST, LAST YEAR ON THE ELECTION, RIGHT? YEAH.
SO, SO PEOPLE ARE VOTING ON A PBA.
UM, IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY UNDERSTAND IT COMPLETELY NECESSARILY.
UM, BUT IT'S NOT COMPLETELY ALIEN FOR THEM.
AND AGAIN, I'M NOT LIKE ADVOCATING ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
I THINK IT'S WORTH THAT WE'RE WORTHWHILE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT.
I DON'T HAVE A HARD AND FAST OPINION YET.
UH, SO THAT'S MY COMMENT FOR THE MOMENT.
I DID HAVE A QUESTION I WANTED TO ASK ABOUT THE, WE'RE OPERATING UNDER HOME RULE, WE PUT A PBA ON THE BALLOT AND IF IT PASSES, WE ARE NOW JUST SUBJECT TO THE PBA GOING FORTH.
BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.
THAT WAS MY FOLLOW UP QUESTION.
SO IF WE'RE ON HOME RULE AND WE PUT PBA ON THE BALLOT AND IT FAILS, WE'RE STILL UNDER THE HOME RULE.
CORRECT? IS THERE A A TIME LIMITATION THAT YOU CAN SEQUENCE THESE? COULD WE PUT A PBA ON THE EARLIER BALLOT AND IF IT DOESN'T WORK, DO A HOME RULE ON THE NEXT BALLOT? THAT MAY NOT BE POLITICALLY WISE, BUT I'M JUST LEGALLY ARE THE RESTRICTIONS THERE.
SO I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN CALL A SPECIAL ELECTION FOR A PBA OR HOME RULE, BUT WE CAN DO IT.
SO IF YOU DID HOME RULE TWO YEARS LATER, YOU COULD DO A PBA TWO YEARS LATER YOU COULD DO ANOTHER HOME RULE.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO, EVEN THOUGH IT'S STILL VALID, YOU COULD TRY TO UP IT EARLIER.
THESE ALL HAVE TO BE ON THE FALL BALLOT, THE, THE MAIN ELECTION BALLOT OR CAN THEY? I'D HAVE TO DOUBLE CHECK ON THAT, BUT I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE THEY HAVE TO BE ON THE GENERAL INTEREST OR THE PRIMARY.
IT HAS TO BE A GENERAL ELECTION.
WE CAN GO IN THE PRIMARY FOR THE GENERAL, BUT THAT TIMEFRAME, YEAH, I'VE SPENT WAY TOO MUCH TIME READING ABOUT THIS
I DO THINK THAT YOU KNOW, YOUR COMMENTS VICE MAYOR ABOUT THE COUNTIES GET 'EM PASSED.
I DO THINK, ON THE OTHER HAND, I THINK THE CITY BUDGET GETS A LITTLE BIT MORE SCRUTINY WITH OUR PEOPLE AND I, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO BALANCE THOSE THINGS, BUT I'M NOT SURE IT'S EXACTLY INFORMATIVE TO OUR PEOPLE THAT THEY VOTED FOR A
I WOULD BET YOU'D GET THE ANSWER.
'CAUSE THE P BECAUSE THE COUNTY BUDGET IS TIED TO PROPERTY TAXES.
YOU KNOW, WHEREAS THE CITY BUDGET IS NOT, SO IT'S JUST IRONIC.
CAN I ASK A QUESTION? YEAH, SURE.
BARBARA, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT DO YOU THINK, OR ANNETTE, ONE OF YOU, WHAT, WHAT WOULD A EDUCATION PROGRAM ON THESE OPTIONS LOOK LIKE? WOULD THEY BE DIFFERENT IF IT WAS PBA VERSUS HOME RULE? OR WOULD YOU RUN BOTH SIMULTANEOUSLY IF BOTH THINGS WERE COMING FORWARD, WHICH IS AN OPTION AND THIS WE'VE HEARD UP HERE.
UM, THOUGHTS I THINK, AND I, I'LL LET ANNETTE, YOU KNOW, RESPOND TO, 'CAUSE I'M SURE SHE HAS MORE EXPERIENCE IN SOME OF THESE.
I MEAN, I DON'T THINK WE'VE DONE HOME RULE IN PPA BEFORE, BUT I THINK THE
[03:10:01]
EDUCATION CAMPAIGN HAS TO BE VERY, UM, VERY CAREFULLY CRAFTED BECAUSE IT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT THAT WE NOT APPEAR TO ADVOCATE MM-HMMEVEN APPEAR, NOT, NOT ADVOCATE, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T EVEN WANT THAT APPEARANCE.
UM, THE FIRST PLACE I WOULD GO IS I, I, WELL BESIDES LAUREN, WHICH WOULD, YOU KNOW, BE RIGHT AT THE TOP OF MY LIST WOULD BE LOOKING AT THE CITIES THAT HAVE HAD SUCCESSFUL PBA ELECTIONS LIKE TIME AFTER TIME, LIKE MESA AND SCOTTSDALE, THERE ARE ONLY EIGHT CITIES THAT DO A PBA.
ALL THE REST OF THE 90% THAT USE AN ADJUSTMENT METHOD ARE HOME RULE, UM, COUNTIES.
I THINK A FEW MORE COUNTIES, BUT THERE AREN'T LIKE A TON OF COUNTIES.
BUT IT IS, UM, THE EDUCATION, I THINK YOU HAVE TO, YOU HAVE TO MEET PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE AND YOU HAVE TO JUST HELP THEM UNDERSTAND LIKE, HERE'S HERE, THERE'S THREE OPTIONS.
AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE, PEOPLE WILL MAKE THE DECISION BASED ON THEIR OWN PERSONAL, YOU KNOW, FEELINGS.
BUT WE WANNA MAKE SURE THEY HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION SO THEY CAN MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION.
DID YOU WANNA ADD ANYTHING IN ADDITION TO THAT? UM, I THINK REALLY YOU'RE EDUCATING PEOPLE AS WELL ON THE CITY'S BUDGET AND WHAT ARE THE SERVICES WE PROVIDE AND WHAT IS THE VALUE THEY'RE RECEIVING FOR THAT.
AND SO WE COULD MAKE THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, A WHOLE SERIES OF CONVERSATIONS AROUND ALL SORTS OF TOPICS RELATED TO OUR BUDGET, UM, SO THAT PEOPLE DO FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE.
AND WITH THE PBA AS A VERY FORWARD LOOKING LIMIT, THAT'S WAY OUT IN THE DISTANCE, WHICH THEREBY CREATES A LARGER NUMBER, THAT UNDERSTANDING WOULD BE REALLY IMPORTANT.
SO THAT'S WHY I THINK YOU'D HAVE TO DO MANY TYPES OF OUTREACH IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS AND MAYBE MORE THAN ONCE, UM, FOR FOLKS TO UNDERSTAND THAT THROUGH EITHER IN PERSON MEETINGS, YOU KNOW, WRITTEN, UM, DO WE WANT TO, UH, PUT SOME RESOURCES INTO DOING THE OUTREACH IN SECOND LANGUAGES? UM, THERE'S LIKE A WHOLE HOST OF THINGS WE COULD DO, BUT I THINK IT WILL GENERATE, YOU KNOW, BROAD COMMUNITY CONVERSATION IF WE WERE TO EMBARK UPON THE PBA DISCUSSION BECAUSE OF THE SIZE OF THE LIMIT THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, THE DOLLAR AMOUNT TO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT IS AND HOW THAT'S DERIVED AND WHAT WE WOULD USE IT FOR.
DIRK, I JUST THINK PBAI, NO MATTER HOW MUCH WE EDUCATE PEOPLE ON WHAT IT DOES AND HOW IT WORKS, I THINK MOST VOTERS ARE JUST GONNA SEE THE NUMBER AND GO, YOU'RE GONNA SPEND HOW MUCH? IT'S LIKE, NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE DOING.
YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBER WOULD BE TO BE 200 MILLION OR 150 MILLION OR WHATEVER IT WOULD BE, BUT YEAH.
SO, YOU KNOW, THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE'RE GONNA SPEND THAT MON MONEY, BUT WHEN SOMEBODY SEES THAT, IT'S GONNA BE REAL EASY TO ARGUE.
DON'T LET 'EM SPEND THAT KIND OF MONEY.
'CAUSE UNLESS WE HAVE THE TAX REVENUE COMING IN, WE WOULDN'T BE DOING IT.
UM, SO I THINK I'M INCLINED TO SAY STICK WITH HOME ROLL.
UH, IF WE WANNA FOLLOW UP WITH A PBA ELECTION IN AN OFF YEAR, MAYBE WE DO IT THEN, BUT I DON'T THINK WE WANT TO, YOU KNOW, THROW ALL OUR EGGS IN A, A BASKET THAT PEOPLE AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH.
AND I MEAN, HOME RULE HAS PASSED, WHAT, 60 WHAT PERCENT SO FAR? EVERY 60, 67, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO IN, IN THE TIME THAT THE CITY'S BEEN DOING HOME RULE, IT DIDN'T PASS THE SECOND TIME WE DID IT IN LIKE 92 MAYBE.
AND THE LOWEST AMOUNT THAT IT EVER PASSED WITH SINCE THEN WAS 59.8 OR SOMETHING.
I MEAN, I JUST FEEL LIKE WHY CHANGE HORSES? YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING THAT'S WORKED IN THE PAST AND YOU DON'T NEED TO MAKE A DECISION TONIGHT.
I'M JUST EXPRESSING MY, UM, THE OTHER THOUGHT IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S, WE ARE GETTING READY TO PREPARE, YOU KNOW, THE ANNUAL SURVEY, UM, RELATED TO THE BUDGET PROCESS.
AND IT COULD BE A QUESTION WE PUT IN THE SURVEY.
IF YOU WANNA ASK PEOPLE THEY'RE INTERESTED IN LEARNING ABOUT THIS CONCEPT AND WOULD, YOU KNOW, THINK THAT IT'S WORTH EXPLORING, YOU COULD JUST, UM, GAUGE THE PULSE OF THE PUBLIC RELATED TO IT WITHOUT TELLING, YOU KNOW, JUST A THOUGHT.
WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHEN THE, WHEN HOME
[03:15:01]
RULE AND PBA WERE ON THE BUDGET WITH EIGHT YEARS AGO, I THINK IT WAS THE PBA FAILED, PRETTY, PRETTY STRONGLY FAILED, BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHY.YEAH, THE YESES WERE ABOUT 34%.
SO IT WAS PRETTY LIKE SOLID DEFEAT IT, IT WAS LOW.
WE DON'T KNOW IF THE NUMBER WAS TOO LOW AND PEOPLE REJECTED THAT NUMBER OR THEY WERE CONFUSED ABOUT WHAT IT WAS.
AND THERE WAS A LOT OF ACTIVITY, AS I REMEMBER IT, IN SUPPORT OF HOME RULE AND A LOT OF OF, UM, DISCUSSION ABOUT HOME RULE.
AND SO THE PBA WAS A CITIZENS INITIATIVE AND YOU KNOW, WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHY IT FAILED.
UH, I KNOW AT THE TIME THAT THE, THE THEN COUNCIL WAS CONCERNED ABOUT CONFUSING THE PUBLIC, HAVING THEM BOTH ON THE SAME, UH, BALLOT AND THAT IT WAS CONFUSING.
PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE DIFFERENCE WAS.
BUT FOR THE MOST PART, THE LOUDEST VOICES WERE IN SUPPORT OF HOME RULE.
THERE WERE A NUMBER OF FORUMS ON THE SUBJECT.
DO YOU REMEMBER WHO HOSTED THOSE FORUMS? SO SOMETHING I HEAR A LOT, UM, IS IF WE DON'T HAVE HOME RULE, IT'S GOING TO FORCE THE COUNCIL AND THE CITY REALLY THE CITY MANAGER TO DO SPECIAL ELECTIONS FOR EVERY ITEM THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE DONE.
NOW, MY UNDERSTANDING FROM WHAT YOU JUST SAID IS IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH OF THESE YOU CHOOSE, YOUR BUDGET IS YOUR BUDGET.
AND ONCE, ONCE YOU'RE THERE, WE CAN'T SAY, YEAH, WE HAVE A HUNDRED MILLION IN RESERVE, SO LET'S DO A SPECIAL ELECTION TO SEE IF WE CAN HAVE 40 MILLION OF THAT COME OUT TO GO WORK ON SOMETHING.
WE CAN'T BECAUSE THAT'S NOT ALLOWED.
I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT MM-HMM
I WANNA, SO I'M ASKING BARBARA THE QUESTION HOW IT WORKS AND UNDER WHICH ONE OF THESE THAT WORKS BECAUSE IF THE BUDGET IS SET AND MONEY GOES INTO THE RESERVE TO TAKE THE MONEY OUTTA THE RESERVE, CAN YOU DO THAT AT ANY TIME? MY UNDERSTANDING IS WE CAN'T JUST CHANGE OUR BUDGET ANYTIME WE WANNA CHANGE OUR BUDGET.
AND KURT CAN CORRECT ME IF I SAY ANYTHING, YOU KNOW, OFF THE WALL, BUT YOU CAN HOLD A SPECIAL ELECTION AT ANY TIME OF THE VOTERS TO SAY, WE WOULD LIKE TO INCREASE THE BUDGET BY THIS AMOUNT, BUT FOR THE NEXT BUDGET YEAR, FOR THIS BUDGET YEAR, YEAH, YOU CAN DO THAT.
AND THAT'S PART OF WHAT WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN IN THE CASE OF LIKE THE $15 MILLION EXPENDITURE LIMITATION BECAUSE IT WOULD BE LIKE, WE'RE KEEPING THE LIGHTS ON, BUT PRETTY MUCH NOTHING ELSE, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S, UM, AND IT, IT MEANS CONSTANT ELECTIONS BECAUSE THERE WOULD BE NO, WELL, I MEAN, YOU ALL CAN IMAGINE WHEN YOU HAVE 81 MILLION SUBJECT TO A LIMIT, THAT'S, IT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE.
BUT THAT'S AT, THAT'S NOT A REQUIREMENT EITHER, RIGHT? SO IT'S AT THE DISCRETION OF SOMEBODY TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT WE WANT TO HOLD THAT SPECIAL ELECTION.
I'M NOT SURE THAT SOMEBODY IS IN COUNT COUNCIL WOULD BE THE ONE TO DECIDE TO CALL AN ELECTION.
SO COUNCIL CALLS AN ELECTION, BUT THEN THE ELECTION ITSELF, BECAUSE IF IT'S NOT WHEN AN ELECTION WOULD NORMALLY BE RUNNING ANYWAY, WE WOULD BE ACQUIRING SOME COST ASSOCIATED WITH THAT ELECTION.
SO WHATEVER IT IS THAT WE WANT TO BUDGET ON IS THAT BUDGET PLUS THE COST OF RUNNING A SPECIAL ELECTION.
JUST, JUST TO MAKE SURE, WE'RE ALSO AWARE OF THE FACT THAT WE'RE RUNNING UP THE COST OF ANY PROJECT AS LONG AS IT'S NOT DURING A TRADITIONAL ELECTION.
SO I THINK THAT THOSE ARE ALSO THINGS THAT PEOPLE NEED TO THINK ABOUT BECAUSE THE DISCRETION MAY NEVER BE THERE AND WILL JUST BE RUNNING WITH LIGHTS BARELY ON THE, THE OTHER PERVERSE IMPACT IS THAT YOU'RE ENCOURAGED TO GO INTO DEBT BECAUSE DEBT IS EXCLUDED.
SO INSTEAD OF PAY AS YOU GO, WHICH IS WHAT WE TRY TO DO IN ORDER TO GET THE MONEY TO HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT THE EXCLUSIONS ARE, THEN YOU'RE REALLY, UH, LOOKING AT WAYS IN TO FUND CAPITAL PROJECTS AS YOU REMOVE ALL YOUR CAPITAL PROJECTS UNDER 15 MILLION, YOU KNOW, IF YOU
[03:20:01]
WERE ON $50 MILLION AND THEN FOR THE PROJECTS THAT YOU WANNA FUND, YOU WOULD WOULD DO DEBT SERVICE.AND SO YOU COULD STILL HAVE THEM, BUT YOU WOULD BE PAYING INTEREST AND IT WOULD BE INCREASING YOUR BALANCE SHEET FOR DEBT, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING NOT TO DO.
AGAIN,
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT CITY SPONSORED FORUMS OR WERE THEY, UH, FORUMS THAT WERE SPONSORED BY ORGANIZATIONS THAT WERE PROMOTING ONE IDEA OVER ANOTHER? YEAH, COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS.
I THINK ONE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS DID ONE AND UH, THAT'S ONE I PRETTY MUCH RECALL, BUT I KNOW THAT A LOT OF THE SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS HAD, SO PART OF THE EDUCATION CAMPAIGN, THE CITY CAN PRESENT A FACTUAL OVERVIEW, WHICH WAS DONE BY THE CITY MANAGER AT THE TIME, AND THAT WAS EIGHT YEARS AGO, FOUR YEARS AGO.
I THINK THEY S THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE SPREAD IT OUT.
I REMEMBER JOANNE KEEN DOING ONE THAT I WAS IN THE AUDIENCE FOR.
SO YOU COULD GO TO HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS AND SERVICE CLUBS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT THE FORUMS WERE PUT ON BY COMMUNITY GROUPS.
YEAH, BUT I, I, I'M, BECAUSE I'M REMEMBERING FORUMS THOUGH, THAT HAD, UM, THAT WEREN'T JUST EDUCATIONAL.
THEY WERE, YEAH, THEY WERE BIASED ONE WAY OVER THE, OR ANOTHER, NOT THE LEGAL WAVE OF VOTERS, OBVIOUSLY ONE OR ANY CITY ONES, BUT, WELL, THE PROMOTERS OF THE PBA HELD MANY EVENTS, UH, AT, UH, LOCAL CHURCHES INVITED THE PUBLIC TO COME AND HEAR THEIR POSITION ON THE PBA.
AND OF COURSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME EXCLUSION.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT THE CITY.
AND, AND JUST FOR COUNCILLOR ELLA'S POINT, THE CITY CAN ACTUALLY SPONSOR A DEBATE OR A FORUM USING CITY RESOURCES TO OPEN UP THE BOTH SIDES TO, TO DO SOMETHING LIKE, LIKE THAT AS WELL.
THAT IS ONE OF THE EXCEPTIONS, KURT, IS, IS ADVOCACY WELL-DEFINED.
I MEAN, I KNOW IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS IT'S REALLY EXPRESS ADVOCACY, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, VOTE FOR OR VOTE AGAINST, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS HERE IN ARIZONA.
YEAH, THE, THE PHRASE THAT USES USE, UM, USE OF CITY RESOURCES TO INFLUENCE THE ELECTION INFLUENCE.
AND THERE IS A, A DEFINITION IN THERE.
UM, AND IT'S ANYTHING, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, ANYTHING THAT'S NOT IMPARTIAL OR NEUTRAL.
UM, SO IT CAN ONLY BE EDUCATION FROM CITY RESOURCES THAT DOES NOT LIMIT, UH, COUNSELORS ON THEIR OWN TIME NOT USING CITY RESOURCES TO GO ADVOCATE FOR OR AGAINST HOME RULE.
YOUR HONOR, I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT POINT.
'CAUSE IT'S THE USE OF CITY RESOURCES.
IT'S NOT, UH, AND, AND IF YOU'RE CITY EMPLOYEE AND YOU'RE GETTING PAID, THEN YOU'RE USING CITY RESOURCES, EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT USING A COMPUTER OR YOUR EMAIL OR WHATEVER.
BUT AS ON YOUR OWN TIME AS ELECTED OFFICIALS, THERE'S NOT A LIMITATION.
SO MORE TO COME ON THIS TOPIC.
DO YOU HAVE WHAT YOU NEED? BECAUSE YOU SAID YOU NEEDED SOME DIRECTION, SO DO YOU HAVE WHAT YOU NEED? UH, 'CAUSE I DON'T THINK WE REACHED ANY SORT OF CONCLUSION UP HERE AT ALL,
MY TAKEAWAY IS TO BE CONTINUED
WHEN, WHEN WOULD THE EDUCATION CAMPAIGN START? UM, AS SOON AS WE HAVE DIRECTION FROM YOU ALL ON WHAT TO PLACE ON THE BALLOT, WE WOULD START PREPARING THE MATERIALS AND LINING UP WAYS TO DISTRIBUTE THE INFORMATION.
COUNCIL, EXCELLENT PRESENTATION.
[8.e. AB 3066 Discussion/possible action regarding future meeting items.]
AB 30 66, DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING FUTURE MEETING ITEMS. ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING? I HAVE A QUESTION.KURT, I DON'T KNOW IF I, I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN BRING THIS UP HERE, SO LET ME KNOW.
BUT I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE FORMAT FOR TOMORROW'S MEETING, SINCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FUTURE AGENDA ITEM.
IS THIS SOMEPLACE WHERE I CAN, AND IT'S ABOUT THE PHYSICAL LAYOUT, SO NO, THAT IS NOT ON THE AGENDA AND IT'S, UM, YOU'RE NOT PROPOSING A FUTURE AGENDA ITEM.
SO THAT'D JUST BE A QUESTION YOU COULD TALK TO CITY MANAGER ABOUT IT AFTERWARDS.
UH, IF OTHERWISE, COUNSEL CAN DISCUSS
[03:25:01]
IT.UH, TOMORROW'S MEETING AT THE BEGINNING OF TOMORROW'S MEETING.
[10. ADJOURNMENT]
NOTHING ELSE, THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED AT EIGHT 18, 1:00 PM TOMORROW.