[00:00:04]
GOOD[1. CALL TO ORDER]
AFTERNOON EVERYBODY.WELCOME TO THE CITY OF SEDONA SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING.
I WOULD LIKE TO OFFICIALLY CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER AT 2:30 PM ON FEBRUARY.
AND MADAM CLERK, CAN YOU READ THE ROLL CALL, PLEASE? MAYOR.
WE'RE GLAD YOU WERE ABLE TO BE WITH US AND WE'RE REALLY PLEASED THAT YOUR HUSBAND IS, UM, IN, OUT OF THE HOSPITAL AND, UH, IS DOING MUCH BETTER.
IT'S GOOD TO BE HERE AROUND HEALTHY PEOPLE.
[3.a. Discussion/consideration and possible action regarding the employment, assignment, and appointment of a Planning & Zoning applicant including interview of the following applicant. I. Keith Meyer]
SPECIAL BUSINESS TODAY IS DISCUSSION, CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING THE EMPLOYMENT ASSIGNMENT AND APPOINTMENT OF A PLANNING AND ZONING APPLICANT, INCLUDING THE INTERVIEW OF THE FOLLOWING APPLICANT, KEITH MEYER, AND HE IS HERE.UH, BEFORE WE DO THE INTERVIEW, IT WAS BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION THAT A COUPLE OF THE QUESTIONS ARE NO LONGER RELEVANT, SO I THOUGHT WE COULD GO THROUGH THEM AND X OUT THE ONES THAT WE FEEL WE DON'T WANT TO ASK BECAUSE THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSIONS WORKLOAD HAS CHANGED SINCE THESE QUESTIONS WERE DEVELOPED.
SO, CHARLOTTE, DID YOU WANNA POINT OUT WHICH ONES YOU THOUGHT WE SHOULD SURE.
UM, MAYBE SARAH HAS SOME IDEA OF HOW TO MODIFY IT TOO, BUT I THOUGHT QUESTION TWO AND THREE BECAUSE THE LAW CHANGE THAT TOOK EFFECT IN LATE DECEMBER.
DISALLOWS, UM, PLANNING AND ZONING AND THE CITY FROM PARTICIPATING IN THE DEVELOPMENT OR THE REVIEW PROCESS.
DEVELOPMENT REVIEW, AND IT'S NOW A STAFF FUNCTION, UM, TO ASK AN APPLICANT.
UM, ANYTHING ABOUT THAT ASPECT OF IT IS, UM, PROBABLY MOOT AT THIS POINT.
ALTHOUGH I THINK FOR APPEALS THERE WILL BE, UM, AN AN ABILITY TO, YOU KNOW, WEIGH IN ON IT IF THERE WAS AN APPEAL OF THE STAFF DECISION.
UM, AND THAT WOULD BE FOR NUMBER TWO.
AND ALSO PROBABLY FOR NUMBER THREE.
UM, WE COULD MAYBE CHANGE IT FROM SAYING, UH, DESIGN STANDARDS.
ARE WE TWO ON THREE NOW? ON THREE.
DO YOU WANNA ELIMINATE TWO OR DO YOU WANNA MODIFY TWO? I DON'T SEE WHAT DO YOU THINK EXACTLY HOW YOU'D MODIFY IT? ARE YOU GUYS LOOKING AT THE APPLICATION OR ARE YOU LOOKING AT A SECOND SET OF QUESTIONS? OH, THIS QUESTIONS YOU DON'T HAVE THEM QUESTIONS? I DON'T, I BROUGHT MY OWN.
YOU HAVE, I MEAN, EVERYBODY HAS TO ASK THE SAME QUESTIONS OH.
SO I THINK MARCEY WILL BRING, WE'LL GO MAKE ANOTHER COPY FOR YOU, DEREK.
MAYOR, IF I COULD ADD, JUST MITIGATING THIS A LITTLE BIT, HOWEVER, IS THAT WE'RE STILL GONNA DRAG CITY PROJECTS THROUGH THE OLD PROCESS.
I THINK WE DECIDED THAT, DIDN'T WE? YEAH, WE DID.
SO THERE IS SOME APPLICABILITY MOVING FORWARD.
DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS? OH, NO.
SO I MEAN, YEAH, I WOULD STRIKE TWO.
RIGHT? UNLESS IT PERTAINS TO CITY PROJECTS LIKE PETE SAID.
SORRY, I'M SEEING THESE FOR THE FIRST TIME.
WOULD YOU BE COMFORTABLE VOTING TO APPROVE A PROJECT? THERE WE GO.
PERHAPS IF WE, UM, WANTED TO SPEAK TO ONE OF THE AUTHORITIES THAT PNZ STILL HAS, WHICH WOULD BE ZONING REQUESTS, UM, WE COULD JUST CHANGE THREE TO BE, WOULD YOU BE COMFORTABLE VOTING TO APPROVE A ZONE CHANGE IF YOU PERSONALLY DISLIKE THE DESIGN, DISLIKE THE PROJECT, OR CS? OR CS? MM-HMM
WELL, BUT THAT'S NOT REALLY A, YEAH, I MEAN PERHAPS, SO IT'S ZONE CHANGE OR CUP,
[00:05:01]
THAT'S WHAT I WOULD PROPOSE.I MEAN, BASICALLY THE INTENT AND THE QUESTION IS TO ASK HOW THEY WOULD FEEL IF THERE WAS A DIS PERSONAL DISLIKE IN THE DESIGN.
I THINK THAT'S THE INTENT OF THREE.
SO I THINK WE CAN LEAVE IT BROAD.
SO ELIMINATE TWO AND MODIFY THREE.
ACTUALLY, I WOULD LIKE TO LEAVE THE LAST PART OF QUESTION TWO.
WHAT EXPERIENCE, KNOWLEDGE, AND PERSPECTIVE DO YOU BRING TO THE COMMISSION? OKAY.
SO MAKE THAT, THEN MAKE THAT THE QUESTION.
WITH THAT KIND OF BEING A NEWBIE SITTING HERE, DO WE ALWAYS STICK TO THIS TEMPLATE? ARE YOU ALLOWED TO ADD QUESTIONS TO THIS OR IS THIS THE SAME FOR EVERY SINGLE PERSON? SAME FOR EVERYBODY.
SO WHAT IF YOU WANTED TO, I MEAN, OKAY, SO YOU CAN ASK FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS TO SOMETHING THAT EITHER THE APPLICANT OPENS IF IT'S IN THE APPLICATION OR AS A FOLLOW UP TO WHEN WE'RE DISCUSSING THESE MAIN QUESTIONS.
BUT THESE ARE ALWAYS THE START OF THE, OKAY.
AND IF WE WANTED TO MODIFY THIS FORMAL APPLICATION QUESTIONNAIRE, HOW WOULD THAT PROCESS BE FOR MOVING FORWARD FOR THE NEXT OPENING? YEAH.
IF WE WANTED TO MODIFY THAT, YOU CAN MARK IT UP AND THEN SUBMIT IT TO YOU GUYS.
SO KEITH, WHY DON'T YOU COME UP.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR APPLICATION AND YOUR INTEREST.
HOPE I MAKE IT WORTH EVERYBODY'S WHILE TO COME IN.
SO WE COULD START WITH YOU CHARLOTTE, AND WE'LL JUST GO IN ORDER.
WHY DO YOU WANT TO SERVE ON THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION? UH, WELL, I GUESS I'LL SAY MY ANSWER'S PROBABLY THE SAME AS EVERYBODY'S SITTING IN THE ROOM.
I FEEL LIKE IT BRINGS SOME VALUE.
TO THE MIC FEEL, BECAUSE THIS IS BEING RECORDED.
UH, MY PERSPECTIVE IS THAT ALL OF US FEEL WE CAN BRING SOME VALUE, UH, TO THE COMMUNITY AND, UH, HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER.
AND I BELIEVE THAT I CAN DO THE SAME.
I CAN, UH, BRING SOME PERSPECTIVE, HAVE SOME IDEAS THAT COULD BE USEFUL, UH, HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS SEGMENT OF, UH, THE COMMERCIAL AND REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT INDUSTRY ON MY, BASICALLY, I GREW UP IN IT, UH, THROUGH MY FAMILY.
AND, UM, I'VE SEEN GOOD AND I'VE SEEN NOT GOOD.
AND I FEEL LIKE I CAN, UH, HELP DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THE TWO AND BRING SOME VALUE TO, UH, SEDONA, UH, WHICH IS A UNIQUE COMMUNITY THAT WE ALL LOVE.
UM, I, PEOPLE ALWAYS ASK ME, HOW DO YOU LIKE LIVING IN SEDONA? I SAID, IT'S GREAT.
EVERYBODY'S HAPPY TO BE THERE.
'CAUSE THEY ALL MOVE THEIR OWN PURPOSE.
UM, NOBODY'S HARDLY ANYBODY'S FROM HERE.
WE ALL CAME HERE FOR A REASON.
AND, UH, I FIRST CAME HERE IN 1974, SO I, UM, I'M HAPPY TO BE HERE AND FEEL LIKE CAN ADD SOME VALUE.
THIS IS JUST A CLARIFYING QUESTION, KEITH.
SO YOU, UM, YOU JUST MENTIONED THAT YOU'VE SEEN GOOD AND BAD AND YOU FEEL LIKE YOU CAN HELP EVALUATE IT, GOOD AND BAD.
WHAT, BECAUSE AT THIS POINT, P AND Z CAN NO LONGER EVALUATE PLANS.
WELL, UH, THINGS THAT WORK AND THINGS DON'T, DON'T WORK WELL.
I GUESS FROM A PLANNING AND ZONING STANDPOINT, FROM A, UH, COMMUNITY GROWTH STANDPOINT, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'VE ALL MAYBE LOOKED AT, UH, OUR COMMUNITY AND SAY, GEE, I WISH WE HAD MORE OF THIS.
AND GOSH, THAT WASN'T SUCH A GOOD IDEA, I HOPE.
CAN YOU GIMME SOME EXAMPLES? INSTEAD OF JUST THE PRONOUNS, CAN YOU GIMME SOME EXAMPLES OF WHAT YOU THINK IS GOOD AND WHAT YOU THINK IS BAD THAT'S HAPPENED OR THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE CHANGED? WELL, UM, I SURE, UH, I THINK THINGS THAT, UM, MAKE IT EASIER, UH, AND, AND MORE USEFUL FOR THE COMMUNITY.
UM, AND I GET INTO SOME SPECIFICS, UH, UH, IN TERMS OF AT LEAST MORE, MORE IN THE COMMUNITIES THAT I WORK IN, UH, AS OPPOSED TO SEDONA SPECIFICALLY.
'CAUSE I DON'T PRETEND TO BE AN EXPERT IN SEDONA.
I MEAN, WE ALL HAVE THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS OF WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESN'T WORK WELL, BUT, UM, SOME THINGS OUTLIVE THEIR USEFULNESS OR THEY WERE TRENDY AT A TIME, BUT AREN'T, DON'T HAVE LONG TERM APPLICABILITY.
AND I THINK A, A COMMUNITY LIKE SEDONA, UM, HAS A LONG RUNWAY.
UH, YOU KNOW, WE ALL THINK IT WILL BE HERE FOR CENTURIES TO COME.
AND SO TO SETTLE ON SOMETHING THAT HAS A VERY SHORT WINDOW, LIKE A TENURE UTILITY OR A TENURE STYLE MAY NOT BE AS, UH, AS BENEFICIAL.
SO I TRY TO LOOK AT THINGS THAT HAVE A LONG RUNWAY AND,
[00:10:01]
UM, CONTEMPLATE THE FUTURE.UM, AND I'VE, WE'VE SEEN, I'VE, I'VE BEEN EXPERIENCED WITH AND BEEN INVOLVED WITH THINGS AND OTHER COMMUNITIES.
I'M A, I'M A LICENSED COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE BROKER AND HAVE BEEN FOR 21 YEARS IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO.
AND SO I'M ACTIVE IN PLANNING AND ZONING.
UH, THAT'S THE, THE DISCIPLINE I WORK WITHIN.
SO I USUALLY WORK WITH A BLANK PALLET, IF YOU WILL.
UH, AND THAT LAND COULD BE ANYTHING.
AND SO AS A COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE BROKER, I'M THERE TO HELP IT, UM, REACH WHAT WE CALL ITS HIGHEST AND BEST USE.
AND SO THAT'S HOW I GET INVOLVED IN THE PLANNING AS AN EXAMPLE ON VACANT LAND.
SO I TRY TO LOOK AT THINGS THAT WILL SERVE A PURPOSE AS FAR AS AN, AS AN IMAGINABLE, UH, FROM A REAL ESTATE PERSPECTIVE.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF COUNCILOR DUN THAT HELPS YOU OR NOT, BUT, UH, WELL, I THINK, AND PLEASE TELL ME IF I'M INTERPRETING THIS CORRECTLY, THAT YOU'RE REFERENCING THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODES IN THE BUILDING CODES MM-HMM
UM, IN THIS AT THIS POINT, BECAUSE THAT'S THE JUNCTURE WE'RE WE'RE AT WITH THIS NEW STATE LAW OF 24 47 MM-HMM
IS THAT CORRECT? AM I UNDERSTANDING THAT CORRECT? YES.
I MEAN, I'M STILL TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PLANNING AND ZONING DOES, WILL HAVE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OR NOT.
AND MAYBE YOU CAN CLARIFY THAT FOR ME.
'CAUSE I UNDERSTAND THE LAW JUST CHANGED AND, YOU KNOW, THE PLANNING AND ZONING'S GONNA FOCUS ON WHAT IT'S ALLOWED TO, SO TO FOCUS ON.
BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE MAY BE SOME THINGS THAT WERE PASSED THAT MAY COME BACK IN FRONT OF PLANNING AND ZONING THAT MIGHT BE TO BE REVISITED.
I LOOK AT WHAT'S PUT IN FRONT OF ME.
WELL, SARAH, I THINK THAT'S A QUESTION YOU CAN RESPOND TO.
UH, SO THE STATE JUST PASSED AS CHARLOTTE MENTIONED, EIGHT B HB 2 4 4 7 MM-HMM
SO THEY REMOVED DEVELOPMENT REVIEWS AS A PART OF OUR PROCESS.
IN THE HOPES, I THINK THEIR INTENT WAS TO EXPEDITE THE BUILDING PROCESS.
AND SO THAT LEAVES US WITH BASICALLY ZONING CHANGES, UM, CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS AND CODE CHANGES AS WELL.
IS THAT TRUE, PETE? SO WE ACTUALLY USED TO HAVE TWO MEETINGS A MONTH, AND NOW WE HAVE ONE MEETING A MONTH.
IT'S THE, UM, FIRST TUESDAY OF THE MONTH.
SO OUR SCOPE HAS BEEN REDUCED.
I DON'T KNOW, CHARLOTTE, IF YOU WANNA ADD ON TO THAT OR I WOULD SAY THERE'S A VERY LARGE CITY PROJECT COMING DOWN THE PIKE,
SO THAT WILL BE A SIGNIFICANT RESPONSIBILITY.
I JUST HAVE A QUICK FOLLOW UP QUESTION TO THAT.
AND YOU KNOW, CHARLOTTE ASKED YOU THE WHY, AND I'M JUST CURIOUS, WAS THERE ANYTHING SPECIFIC THAT MOTIVATED YOU TO APPLY? UM, I DON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC AGENDA MM-HMM
UM, OR IF SOMETHING JUST HAPPENED OR IF THERE WAS AN EVENT OR SOMETHING YOU'RE FOLLOWING.
WELL, I WILL SAY THIS, THAT, UH, HAVING WORKED PROFESSIONALLY IN, IN THE BUSINESS FOR 20 ODD YEARS NOW, THIS IS MY THIRD CAREER.
I WAS IN THE BROADCASTING BUSINESS MY FIRST CAREER.
I WAS IN THE VIDEO FILM PRODUCTION BUSINESS FOR MY SECOND CAREER.
SO COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE'S BEEN MY THIRD CAREER.
SO, UM, AND I GUESS WHAT I WOULD HAVE SEEN IS MOST OF THE TIME I'M THE APPLICANT IN MY ROLE AS COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE BROKER.
SO I'M ON RIGHT WHERE I'M SITTING RIGHT NOW, IF THAT'S PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD, I'M HERE.
AND, UH, AS, SO I'VE BEEN EXPOSED TO THE PROCESS A NUMBER OF TIMES AND HAVE SEEN, UM, UH, THE GOOD, GOOD AND BAD PLANNING AND SEEN GOOD AND BAD DECISIONS MADE.
AND MY HOPE IS TO BRING SOME VALUE IN TERMS OF WHAT I'VE SEEN THAT WORKS WELL AND DOESN'T WORK WELL.
UH, THAT, THAT THE BEST WAY DESCRIBE IT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? FOLLOW UPS? OKAY, PETE.
UH, KEITH, SO THIS WAS THE REWORK QUESTION.
WOULD YOU BE COMFORTABLE VOTING TO APPROVE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT OR A ZONE CHANGE? WE WERE ACTUALLY TWO.
TRYING TO, IT'S ABOUT ALL RIGHT.
SEEING IF YOU'RE ON YOUR TOES.
UH, WHAT EXPERIENCE, KNOWLEDGE OR OR PERSPECTIVE WOULD YOU BRING TO THE COMMISSION? OKAY.
SO AS I'VE RELATED, I HAVE BEEN A COMMERCIAL LICENSED COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE BROKER FOR, UH, 23 YEARS NOW.
UH, BOTH IN STATE OF OHIO AND STATE OF NEW MEXICO.
I GUESS FROM THAT CONTEXT, UH, WHAT I DO BELIEVE I BRING THE SEDONA IS PERSPECTIVE FROM OTHER COMMUNITIES.
I'VE SEEN HOW OTHER COMMUNITIES PLAN AND UTILIZE, DEVELOP THEIR CODE AND IMPLEMENT IT.
UM, HAVE WORKED IN SOME, UH, BIG METROPOLITAN AREAS LIKE CINCINNATI, OHIO, WHERE I'M FROM ORIGINALLY, UH, HAVE WORKED IN A CAMILLE LIKE SANTA FE, NEW MEXICO,
[00:15:01]
WHICH IS A VERY UNIQUE COMMUNITY, NOT UNLIKE SEDONA, AND THAT IT'S HISTORICAL.UM, AGAIN, GOING BACK REALLY TO THE 15 HUNDREDS.
AND THEY'RE, UH, THEY STILL LIKE TO RETAIN THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE THAT THEY'VE ALWAYS ENJOYED THERE THAT HAS BENEFITS, BUT IT ALSO FRANKLY CREATES A LOT OF RESTRICTIONS AS TO WHAT CAN AND CAN'T BE DONE OR HOW YOU HAVE TO WORK THROUGH THE PROCESS.
UM, SO I GUESS THAT'S, UH, HOPEFULLY IT GIVES YOU SOME PERSPECTIVE BY, BUT I RIDE, TRY TO BRING FRESH IDEAS.
I DON'T, UH, AGAIN, WHEN I'M LOOKING AT A VACANT PIECE OF LAND, IT'S HIGHEST AND BEST USE WHAT, WHAT'S THE BEST THING THAT COULD BE DONE HERE? SO I DON'T COME IN WITH A PERS UH, FIXED PERSPECTIVE SAYING, WELL THEN IF THE APPLICANT DOESN'T FIT MY BOX, THEN IT'S NOT A GOOD THING.
SO IF I COULD KIND OF FOLLOWING UP ON A PREVIOUS QUESTION, WHEN COUNCILOR DUNN, COULD YOU GIVE US, UH, UH, A, UH, TWO EXAMPLES FROM YOUR PROJECTS IN THE PAST, REGARDLESS OF JURISDICTION, ONE THAT WENT WELL, AND THEN ONE THAT DIDN'T GO WELL.
AND, AND BRIEFLY, UH, YOU KNOW, AS YOU CAN, WHAT WERE THE ELEMENTS BEHIND THAT? UM, OKAY.
UH, SO, UH, WE JUST WENT THROUGH A PROJECT THAT, UH, IN BERLIN, NEW MEXICO.
AND, UH, WE BROUGHT A, UM, SOLAR FACILITY TO THE CITY.
IT WAS A USE THAT HAS NEVER BEEN CONTEMPLATED BY BE NEW MEXICO, I DUNNO ANYTHING ABOUT BE, BUT IT'S A ALMOST 200 YEAR OLD CITY RIGHT ON THE REAR GRAND RIVER.
AND, UH, IT, UH, HAS LARGELY BEEN AGRICULTURAL.
IT HAPPENS TO BE WHERE THE BNSF RAILROAD, UH, RUNS THROUGH AND HAS SINCE THE 1880S.
AND, UH, SO THEY'VE A VERY FIXED PERSPECTIVE ON THEIR CITY AND WHAT THEY SHOULD BE.
UM, BUT WE BROUGHT A SOLAR FACILITY THERE THAT'S NOW IN ITS THIRD PHASE, AND IT TOOK QUITE A BIT OF, UM, EDUCATION TO COMMUNICATE TO BERLIN WHY THIS IS A GOOD THING FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY JUST HAD NO CONCEPT OF IT.
BUT IT ALLOWS THEM TO MOVE IN TO THE NEXT 200 YEARS OF THEIR GROWTH.
'CAUSE IT, IT WILL BE THERE FOR THAT LONG.
AND THEY, IT'S A A 50 YEAR GROUND LEASE OF, OF SOLAR FOR THE COMMUNITY.
JUST SOMETHING THAT HADN'T BEEN, UH, THEY JUST HADN'T CONTEMPLATED.
AND THE ZONING COATING DIDN'T CON DIDN'T CONTEMPLATE IT AND WAS, SO WE, AGAIN, WE HAD TO START FROM GROUND ZERO, TAKE EDUCATE 'EM ON IT, BUT THERE WILL BE JOBS CREATED, THERE'LL BE POWER CREATED FOR IT, AND IT THE FIRST PFIZER ECONOMY.
SO THAT'S AN EXAMPLE I THINK WHERE SOMETHING WENT WELL FAIRLY RECENTLY.
UM, ONE THAT, I'LL SAY IT, WE'VE GOT IT TO WORK, BUT CONCESSIONS HAD TO BE MADE THAT I DON'T THINK WERE OF BENEFIT WAS, UH, A RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT THAT, UM, THE LANDOWNER WHO WAS THE SELLER, HAD EVERY RIGHT TO HAVE THAT RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, UH, HAPPEN THERE.
THE PROPERTY WAS ZONED CORRECTLY FOR IT.
UM, IT WAS COMPLIANT WITH THE AREA.
AND THE TWO ADJACENT PARCELS THAT WERE DEVELOPED ON EITHER SIDE OF IT WERE DEVELOPED BASICALLY AS A RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.
SO THIS WAS JUST A PIECE THAT WENT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TWO.
BUT, UM, THE RESIDENTS WHO LIVED ON BOTH SIDES OF IT SAID, WELL, NOW THAT I'M HERE, I DON'T WANT ANYBODY ELSE TO COME IN, RAISE THE DRAWBRIDGE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT ANYBODY ELSE TO, TO MOVE IN.
AND WE WOUND UP GOING THROUGH DISTRICT COURT AND IT TOOK FOUR YEARS TO GET THAT PROJECT APPROVED.
AND, UM, BECAUSE OF POLITICS AND WHATNOT, UH, THE DEVELOPER HAD TO ACCEPT, UH, LESS THAN THEY WERE REALLY LEGALLY ENTITLED TO JUST TO GET, GET IT APPROVED THROUGH, UH, CITY COUNCIL AND DESIGN DESIGN CHANGES HAD TO BE MADE THAT WERE RAISED COST DIDN'T CREATE ANY BENEFIT TO THE PROJECT SOLELY TO MAKE IT PALATABLE POLITICALLY.
NOW, LESS DENSITY, YOU MEAN? PARDON? LESS DENSITY.
THEY HAD TO ACCEPT LESS DENSITY, LESS DENSITY AND, UM, SOUND WALLS AND BARRIER WALLS THAT WERE UNATTRACTIVE.
AND I, IT'S A LAUNDRY LIST OF THINGS, BUT, UM, AND LIKE I SAID, WENT TO DISTRICT COURT IN FOUR YEARS, BUT WE GOT IT DONE.
THAT WAS THE SUCCESSFUL PROJECT.
THAT WAS THE UNSUCCESSFUL PROJECT.
OH, THAT WAS THE UNSUCCESSFUL SUCCESSFUL PROJECT WAS THE FIRST PROJECT.
EVERYBODY, EVERYBODY WON ON THE FIRST PROJECT.
I'M NOT SURE ANY, EVERYBODY, I'M NOT SURE ANYBODY WON.
I GUESS AT THE END OF THE DAY SOME PEOPLE WON ON THE SECOND ONE, SO.
[00:20:03]
OKAY.SO WOULD YOU BE COMFORTABLE VOTING TO APPROVE A ZONE CHANGE OR A CUP IF YOU PERSONALLY DISLIKED THE APPLICATION OR THE DESIGN? WOULD YOU ASK THE QUESTION AGAIN? WOULD I, IF YOU DIDN'T LIKE THE APPLICATION OR THE DESIGN, WOULD YOU STILL BE COMFORTABLE VOTING FOR A CUP OR RECOMMENDING A ZONE CHANGE? YES, I'D BE COMFORTABLE DOING THAT.
UM, YOU KNOW, I, UH, I GUESS THE, THE FILTER FOR WHICH I RUN THINGS OR WHAT IS LEGAL, WHAT IS MORAL AND WHAT IS PRACTICAL, AND IF IT MEETS THOSE CRITERIA, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER I LIKE IT OR NOT, IF IT MEETS THAT CRITERIA, THEN IT SHOULD BE APPROVED.
IF IT'S WITHIN THE LAW, I HAVE A RIGHT.
MAY I TIE THAT QUESTION INTO, UM, SOMETHING THAT WAS IN YOUR ACTUAL APPLICATION, A STATEMENT THAT YOU MADE IN YOUR APPLICATION? WAS THE QUESTION IN THE APPLICATION WAS, WHAT DO YOU HOPE TO ACCOMPLISH AS A PLANNING ZONING COMMISSIONER? AND YOUR, YOUR ANSWER SAID TO LOWER THE COST OF DEVELOPMENT IN TERMS OF TIME AND MANAGING NON-PRODUCTIVE COSTS THAT THE DEVELOPMENT BECOMES MORE AFFORDABLE.
SO IF YOU FELT THAT YOU DIDN'T LIKE AN APPLICATION BECAUSE YOU FELT THAT THE COST OF DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE TOO MUCH OR SOMETHING, HOW, HOW DO YOU BALANCE THOSE THINGS? I JUST, I'M TRYING TO GET INTO THE, THE GUTS OF YOUR STATEMENT IN YOUR APPLICATION.
WELL, UH, I, I'M NOT SURE I SEE THE CORRELATION BETWEEN THAT COMMENT AND THIS ONE.
UM, MY COMMENT IN TERMS OF DEVELOPMENT, UH, I THINK THE, WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE LAST, I'LL SAY PERIOD OF TIME, SAY FIVE YEARS PRE COVID, UH, IS THAT THE AMOUNT OF TIME IT TAKES TO GET DEVELOPMENT APPROVAL, IN MY EXPERIENCE, I CAN'T SAY IT'S UNIQUE TO SEDONA, BUT IN THE COMMUNITIES IN WHICH I WORK, UH, IT'S BECOME VERY ELONGATED, I'LL SAY AT LEAST DOUBLED THE AMOUNT OF TIME IT TAKES.
UM, AND AS A CONSEQUENCE, IT ADDS TO THE COST OF EVERYTHING WITHOUT NECESSARILY ADDING ANY VALUE TO IT.
WELL, I JUST GAVE YOU AN EXAMPLE WHERE FOUR YEARS IN DISTRICT COURT, YOU KNOW, ON ONE PROJECT, AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT DIDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING.
HAD FOUR YEARS OF TIME AND ALL THE INHERENT COSTS THEREIN, WHEREAS IF THE PEOPLE WOULD'VE FOLLOWED THE RULES, THEY COULD'VE GOTTEN IN AND OUT OF THAT IN SIX MONTHS IN TERMS OF DEVELOPMENT PROJECT.
SO, UM, HE, I, WHAT HAPPENED WAS PEOPLE'S OPINIONS GOT INVOLVED AND POLITICS BECAME INVOLVED AND THEY WERE LOBBYING TO GET THINGS CHANGED.
UH, IT WAS LEGALLY, THE, THE, IN THAT PARTICULAR SITUATION, BUT I'M TRYING TO APPLY IT TO YOUR QUESTION HERE, IS THAT IF IT, IF SOMETHING'S ZONED CORRECTLY AND THE APPLICATION COMES IN AND IT COMPLIES WITH THE LAW, WHETHER I LIKE IT OR NOT, IS NOT PERTINENT, IS WHAT PERTINENT IS, IS IT CORRECT RELATIVE TO THE ZONING? AND IF THE ANSWER IS YES, WELL THEN IT SHOULD MOVE THROUGH, IT SHOULD BE APPROVED.
DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? SURE.
CAN I FOLLOW FOLLOW UP WITH THAT ONE? SURE.
UH, SOMETHING WE SEE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU EVALUATE ZONE CHANGES AND CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, SARAH, CAN YOU TALK INTO THE MIC? SURE.
I'M TRYING TO LOOK AT HIM AT THE SAME TIME.
WHEN YOU EVALUATE A ZONE CHANGE, A ZONE CHANGE, OR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, HOW WOULD YOU BALANCE SOMEONE'S PERSONAL PROPERTY RIGHTS VERSUS THE BROADER COMMUNITY INTERESTS? THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, PERSONALLY I STRUGGLE WITH SOMETIMES.
WELL, I THINK PERSONAL PROPERTY RIGHTS, UH, HAVE, HAVE TO COME, HAVE, YOU HAVE TO START THERE BECAUSE THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE RULE, THE LAWS SUPPORT.
UM, IF THERE'S A CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE IF AT THE END OF THE DAY THE GREATER COMMUNITY INTEREST IS BEST SERVED BY MAYBE IMPACTING ONE PERSON'S PERSONAL PROPERTY RIGHTS, THEN I THINK WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS FIND OUT WHAT MIGHT BE ADEQUATE COMPENSATION TO THAT PERSON SINCE THEIR PROPERTY RIGHTS ARE THE ONES THAT ARE BEING VIOLATED.
OR MAYBE THAT'S NOT THE RIGHT PROPER WORD, BUT, UH, IMPACTED, MAYBE THAT'S A BETTER WORD.
UM, SO WHAT CAN WE DO SINCE THAT ONE PERSON'S, UM, PERSONAL PRIVATE RIGHTS ARE BEING IMPACTED FOR THE GREATER GOOD? WHAT CAN WE DO TO COMPENSATE THAT PERSON? OKAY, THANK YOU.
OKAY, I HAVE THE NEXT QUESTION.
WHAT DO YOU SEE AS IMPORTANT PLANNING ISSUES FACING THE CITY OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS, AND WHY ARE
[00:25:01]
THEY IMPORTANT? UM, I GUESS THE BIGGEST THING THAT I WOULD SAY RELATIVE TO SEDONA, THAT IT, IT IS UNIQUE, SPECIAL AND DIFFERENT.AND I THINK WE ALL APPRECIATE THAT.
UH, I THINK THE ONE THING THAT I, TAKING A STEP BACK FOR A SECOND LOOKING AT IT, IS WHAT SEDONA DOESN'T SEEM TO ME TO HAVE THAT IT, I THINK IT SHOULD IS WHAT I CALL A BRAND OR A THEME.
UM, AND I GUESS I THINK IF, IF YOU HAVE THAT, IT MAKES EVERYTHING, UH, A LITTLE EASIER.
UM, AND SO I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I FEEL THAT MAYBE IT'S BEEN DONE AND I'M NOT BEEN EXPOSED TO IT, IS IF WE'VE, UH, TALKED TO OUR PEER GROUP, WHAT I CALL OUR PEER GROUP CITIES, AND SAID, WELL, WHAT DO THEY DO TO HAVE, 'CAUSE THEY HAVE SIMILAR CHALLENGES AS, AS WE DO.
AND AS AN EXAMPLE, UM, A LIST OF PEER GROUP CITIES MIGHT BE LIKE TELLURIDE, COLORADO OR SUN VALLEY, IDAHO, OR SOLVANG CALIFORNIA, OR PARK CITY, UTAH.
THESE ARE ALL CITIES THAT, UM, HAVE A LARGE TOURIST.
UH, THEY'RE BIG TOURIST DESTINATION.
YOU HAVE A BIG INFLUX OF TOURISM EVERY WEEKEND.
AND AT THE SAME TIME YOU'VE GOT REGULAR RESIDENTS WHO LIVE THERE 24 7.
AND HOW DO THEY BALANCE THOSE CHALLENGES TO MEET BOTH, UH, MARKETS AND WHAT DO THEY DO TO, UH, NOT MAKE IT LOOK LIKE A PATCHWORK QUILT, THAT THERE'S A COMMON THEME AND A COMMON BRAND THAT MAKES IT AN ATTRACTIVE PLACE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
AND I THINK SEDONA HAS SOME COMPONENTS OF THAT, BUT, UM, I THINK THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO REINVENT THE WHEEL AND WHEN WE SEE A GOOD IDEA, AS THEY SAY IN TEXAS, LET'S REPURPOSE IT.
AND, UM, AND SO WHAT CAN WE DO TO LOOK AT OUR PEER GROUP CITIES LIKE THAT AND TALK TO THEM AND SEE WHAT THEY'VE DONE THAT WOULD BE USEFUL FOR US? UM, I THINK WE ALL ACKNOWLEDGE WE HAVE TRAFFIC CHALLENGES.
I THINK THAT THAT CONTINUES TO BE, BE ADDRESSED.
I THINK THERE'S GONNA BE SOME PROFOUND CHANGES IN, UH, FUTURE TRAFFIC PATTERNS.
UM, HOPEFUL DRIVERLESS CARS, UH, TAKE OVER SOLELY BECAUSE IT MAY REDUCE THE NUMBER OF CAR TRIPS AND REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF PARKING REQUIRED FOR BUILDINGS.
BECAUSE YOU COULD HAVE A CAR WORKING OUT THERE ON THE ROAD 24 7 AND YOU DON'T NEED, AND IT COULD SERVE MULTIPLE USERS AS AN EXAMPLE.
I THINK THAT'LL BE OUR, OUR KIDS WILL LOOK BACK AT US AND SAY, WHY DO THEY ALL HAVE TO HAVE CARS AND WHY DO THEY NEED THREE OF THEM? YOU KNOW, BECAUSE TREVOR'S CARS WILL TAKE OVER.
THOSE ARE SOME BIG CHANGES I THINK THAT WILL COME DOWN THE PIKE MAYBE SOONER THAN RATHER THAN LATER.
UM, I, I, I CERTAINLY HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT BRAND THEME, BUT I WANTED TO KNOW SPECIFICALLY WHAT UPCOMING PROJECTS THAT YOU THINK YOUR VIEWS ON THAT.
WHERE, WHERE WOULD THEY BE APPLIED? HAVE YOU, ARE YOU UP TO DATE ON THE PROJECTS PAGE ON THE CITY'S WEBSITE TO KNOW WHAT PROJECTS ARE COMING, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU THINK YOU COULD APPLY SOME OF THESE THOUGHTS TO? I'M SORRY, I'M NOT AS FAMILIAR WITH THAT.
SO I, I GUESS IF NOTHING ELSE, I COME IN WITH A FRESH PERSPECTIVE.
THANK YOU MAYOR KEITH, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HAVING A COMMUNITY BRAND, TALKING ABOUT, UH, LOOKING AT OUR PEER COMMUNITIES, YOU'VE GOT CONSIDERABLE EXPERIENCE WITH SANTA FE MM-HMM
IS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT SANTA FE ITSELF THAT YOU GO, OH, SEDONA WOULD BE WELL TO DO WHAT THEY DO ON X, WHATEVER THAT MIGHT BE, ANY PARTICULAR AHAS? AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SANTA FE, BUT I FIGURED MIGHT THAT GOOD EXAMPLE MIGHT BE A SOFTBALL FOR YOU? THAT'S A GOOD, SURE.
UH, THAT, THAT, THAT'S CERTAINLY A GOOD EXAMPLE.
UM, I GUESS, UH, THERE'S SOME THINGS THEY DO VERY, VERY WELL.
THERE'S, UH, THINGS THAT THEY HAVE NOT DONE WELL, BUT THEY'VE GOTTEN BETTER AT, UH, OF, OF LATE.
UM, THE THING THAT THEY HAVE DONE A GREAT JOB WITH IS THEY'VE MAINTAINED THE CORE HISTORICAL AREA, UH, THE SANTA FE CENTER, AND THEN ALL THE THINGS AROUND IT RETAIN THAT HISTORICAL VALUE AND THE CHARM THAT MAKE PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD WANT TO COME SEE IT BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S SPECIAL, UNIQUE AND DIFFERENT.
AND SO THEY PROTECT THAT REALLY WELL.
UM, WHAT THEY WEREN'T SO GOOD AT IS THE, UH, GROWTH.
THEY EITHER, YOU'RE GROWING WHEN, WHEN YOU'RE GREEN, YOU'RE GROWING WHEN YOU'RE RIPE, YOU'RE ROTTEN.
AND, UM, I GUESS ONE OF THE THINGS THEY WOULD DO IS THEY REALLY RESTRICTED GROWTH FOR THE PURPOSES OF JUST RESTRICTING GROWTH, WHICH REALLY HARMED THEM FOR A WHILE.
AND, UH, THEY HAVE CHANGED THAT IN THE LAST FIVE TO SEVEN YEARS.
THEY REALIZED THAT THEY HAD, UH, SIGNIFICANT HOUSING PROBLEMS THERE, MORE SO THAN SEDONA.
[00:30:01]
AND I KNOW WE WE'RE ALL FAMILIAR WITH WHAT WE ARE HEARING ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING HERE, BUT IT WAS WORSE THERE.AND, UM, AND HAS BEEN FOR A PERIOD OF TIME, IT'S A STATE CAPITAL FOR ONE THING.
A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE SANTA FE, NEW MEXICO IS THE CAPITAL.
IT'S, IT'S THE OLDEST CAPITAL IN NORTH AMERICA AND IT'S THE STATE CAPITAL.
AND AS A CONSEQUENCE, YOU'VE GOT CERTAIN SEA FUNCTION STATE FUNCTIONS THAT HAVE TO TAKE PLACE THERE.
SO THEY'VE GOTTA HAVE LABOR FOR ALL THE STATE AGENCIES.
AND, UH, THEY REALLY RESTRICTED GROWTH ON THAT AND IT REALLY HAUNTED THEM.
WHAT THEY HAVE DONE NOW IS THAT THEY'VE ACTUALLY OPENED IT UP, UH, WHERE IF YOU CAN, UM, YOU CAN PUT AN APARTMENT BUILDING ANYWHERE IN THE CITY.
UH, IF YOU CAN MAKE THE PROJECT WORK, THEY'LL PROVE THE ZONING FOR AN APARTMENT BUILDING ANYWHERE IN THE CITY JUST BECAUSE THEY NEED THE DEVELOPMENT THEY NEED, THEY NEED THE HOUSING AS AN EXAMPLE.
I THINK THAT'S A LITTLE OPEN-ENDED.
PERSONALLY, I THINK YOU HAVE TO HAVE MAYBE PUT SOME GUARDRAILS UP A LITTLE BIT ON THAT, BUT JUST AS AN EXAMPLE.
BUT THE PENDULUM WAS TOO FAR OVER HERE.
MAYBE THEY LET SWING TOO FAR THAT WAY, BUT THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, GET IT BACK TOWARDS THE METAL.
MAYOR PENDULUM DOES SWING, DOESN'T IT? YEAH.
WHEN YOU SAY THEY RESTRICTED GROWTH JUST TO RESTRICT GROWTH AND IT CREATED MORE HARM THAN GOOD MM-HMM
WHAT KIND OF HARM RESULTED FROM THAT? WELL, BECAUSE, UH, THE CITY WAS DECLINING IN POPULATION, THEIR TAX BASE WAS ERODING.
UH, HOUSING STOCK WAS GETTING OLD AND BECOMING DILAPIDATED, UH, AND INVEST, AND THE, THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY WOULDN'T REINVEST IN IT BECAUSE, UH, THEY HAD SOME CURBS ON, UH, RENTS.
AND IT'S LIKE I SAID, WHEN YOU'RE GREEN, YOU'RE GROWING.
WHEN YOU'RE RIPE, YOU'RE ROTTEN.
AND SO THEY HAD GOTTEN OVER RIPE, IF YOU WILL, AND JUST, UH, THE CITY WAS DECLINING, LIKE DECLINING A POPULATION AND LACK OF INVESTMENT.
SO WHEN I WAS REVIEWING YOUR APPLICATION, THIS QUESTION IS ON THE APPLICATION AND I HIGHLIGHTED A FEW THINGS THAT I THOUGHT WERE REALLY INTERESTING.
UM, YOU NOTED CONCERN THAT THE POPULATION HAS NOT GROWN MATERIALLY, MATERIALLY IN 20 PLUS YEARS.
SO I THOUGHT THAT WAS INTERESTING 'CAUSE THAT'S, YOU KNOW, TRUE.
AND YOU ALSO SAY, IT IS MY OPINION THAT SEDONA LACKS A DESIGN THEME.
IT LOOKS MORE LIKE A PATCHWORK QUILT IN MANY CASES.
THERE APPEAR TO BE RULES THAT SERVE NO PURPOSE.
WOULD LOVE INSIGHT ON THAT, WHAT YOU WERE, UH, WELL,
YOU KNOW, AND SO I GUESS I HAVE A FEW, UH, THE ONE THING BEING A NEWCOMER TO THE CITY, SO I MOVED HERE FIVE YEARS AGO AND, UH, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT I FIND IS A ZONING CODE, I'M SORRY, THE, UM, SIGN CODE.
I STILL HAVE A HARD TIME FINDING LOCATIONS HERE IN TOWN BECAUSE THE SIGN SIGNAGE IS JUST INADEQUATE IN MY OPINION.
MAYBE IT'S NOT FOR EVERYBODY ELSE, BUT FOR ME, I CAN'T, THE SIGNS DON'T TELL YOU WHERE YOU ARE.
AND THE SIGNS ARE DESIGNED TO SERVE A PURPOSE.
AND ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE FACT THAT 50% OF OUR POPULATION ON ANY GIVEN WEEKEND ARE VISITORS AND DON'T KNOW THE CITY, I THINK WE'D BE WELL SERVED TO MAKE IT SO IT'S EASY FOR 'EM TO FIND THINGS.
I HAVE A HARD TIME FINDING THINGS AND I'M, 'CAUSE THE SIGNS DON'T HELP ME.
AND SO I THINK THAT THAT'S JUST ONE EXAMPLE THAT THAT COMES TO MIND.
I THINK IT'S OVERLY RESTRICTIVE.
I THINK THE SIGN CODE WAS DESIGNED TO MAKE IT SO SIGNS WERE NOT OBSTRUCTIVE MM-HMM
BUT AT THE SAME TIME THEY HAVE, THEY SERVE A PURPOSE AND I DON'T FEEL THAT, I THINK IT'S SO PENDULUM SWUNG TOO FAR IN ONE DIRECTION.
ANY OTHER FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS? OKAY, BRIAN.
THANK YOU, MAYOR KEITH, UH, THIS QUESTION IS, DOES THE ADOPTED SEDONA COMMUNITY PLAN, THAT'S OUR 10 YEAR GENERAL PLAN MM-HMM
REFLECT CURRENT COMMUNITY VISION AND VALUES? PLEASE GIVE EXAMPLES OF REASONS FOR YOUR ANSWER.
UM, I'M NOT FULLY VERSED IN IT, SO, UM, I DID PARTICIPATE IN THE, UH, FORUMS THAT THEY HAD OVER HERE WHEN THAT, I THINK THAT WAS PUT IN PLACE.
BUT, UM, I DON'T HAVE A FULL UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE CODE CURRENTLY CALLS FOR MELISSA.
UM, I'M ASSUMING THE QUESTION NUMBER SIX.
UH, KEITH, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE ARIZONA OPEN MEETING LAWS OR THE RULES AND USE OF EXECUTIVE SESSIONS? IF YES, PLEASE BRIEFLY DESCRIBE YOUR UNDERSTANDING.
I, UH, I'M VAGUELY FAMILIAR, BUT, UH, WITH ALL, ALL OPEN MEETING LAWS, I'M NOT WHAT UNIQUE TO ARIZONA.
[00:35:02]
BASICALLY ANYTHING THAT'S, UH, THAT, UH, HAS TO BE DISCUSSED IN PUBLIC HAS TO BE ON AN OPEN FORUM.AND THAT CANNOT BE ANY SIDEBAR OR MEANING THINGS THAT TAKE PLACE, UH, THAT ARE NOT, UH, SIDEBAR MEETINGS THAT ARE, THAT SHOULD BE PART OF THE OPEN FORUM.
AND THEN I, BUT I PRESUME WE HAVE CITY ATTORNEYS TO PROTECT US FROM THAT.
ERIC, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO ADD ABOUT YOUR INTEREST IN SERVING ON THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION? CHECKING MY NOTES JUST TO MAKE SURE I APPRECIATE THE QUESTION.
I GUESS OF, I WOULD SUMMARIZE BY, JUST BY SAYING THAT, UH, I'VE WORKED PROFESSIONALLY, AS I SAID, FOR DECADES NOW, AND THE, AND, UM, HAVE BEEN, HAVE HAD A VERY SUCCESSFUL CAREER.
UM, I AM BASICALLY, I'VE DRAWN A LINE IN THE SAND FROM A RETIREMENT STANDPOINT.
SO, UM, I, UH, WILL WORK ONE MORE YEAR PROFESSIONALLY AND THEN I'LL BE DONE.
AND SO, UM, I FELT LIKE THIS POINT IN MY, MY LIFE WHERE I CAN FOCUS ON THINGS THAT ARE MORE FOR THE GREATER GOOD THAN FOR MY, THAN JUST WORKING SOLELY FOR MY CLIENTS, FOR MYSELF, FOR MY COMPANY.
AND SO THAT'S WHY I THOUGHT MIGHT BE A GOOD TIME FOR ME TO LOOK AT THIS OPPORTUNITY.
IF I CAN TAKE WHAT I'VE LEARNED, UH, FROM OTHERS AND BRING IT TO SEDONA AND CREATE VALUE, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD HOPE TO DO.
THANK YOU MAYOR KEITH, JUST FOLLOWING UP ON THAT A LITTLE BIT, YOU SAID YOU'VE BEEN HERE LIVING FIVE YEARS, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
BUT YOU TRAVEL QUITE A BIT FOR YOUR CURRENT COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE JOB? THAT'S CORRECT.
BUT ONLY ONE MORE YEAR OF THAT IN YOUR PLANS? RIGHT.
I, YOU KNOW, IF WE LEARNED ANYTHING DURING CVID, WE LEARNED THAT WE CAN WORK REMOTELY.
AND SO I'VE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF THAT, UH, FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS.
I'M IN NEW MEXICO ONCE OR TWICE A MONTH AS NEEDED.
UM, OTHERWISE I, I LIVE IN SEDONA AND MY, MY, MY BODY'S HERE, MY BRAIN'S THERE IS THE WAY I KIND OF PUT IT, YOU KNOW.
SO, UM, AND THEN JUST TO CLARIFY FOR ME, IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE YOU REALLY PAGED THROUGH OUR COMMUNITY PLAN AT THIS POINT YET.
I, I, I SKIMMED IT, BUT I DON'T WANT TO SAY I HAVE AN ENCYCLOPEDIC KNOWLEDGE OF IT.
HOW ABOUT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE? GOD FORBIDDEN.
DID YOU TURN PAGES ON THAT
ANY, ANY THOUGHTS OF EITHER ONE OF THOSE THAT YOU'D LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT? UH, I, I DON'T FEEL LIKE I'M CONVERSANT ENOUGH TO SPEAK INTELLIGENTLY, SO I GUESS I TRY TO NOT SPEAK ON INTELLIGENTLY.
YOU KNOW, I GUESS I, I, IF YOU'RE ASKING AM I READY TO WALK INTO SPEED AND, AND BE THE, UH, UH, THE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT IN ALL THINGS RELATIVE TO DEVELOPMENT CODE, I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, SO I GUESS THAT'D BE A LITTLE BIT O ON THE JOB TRAINING, BUT, UM, I THINK I CAN REVIEW IT IN ADVANCE OF ANY CASE THAT'S BROUGHT IN FRONT OF US AND, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, SPEAK TO CITY STAFF AS NEEDED TO BRING MYSELF UP TO SPEED ON A PARTICULAR MATTER.
ONE IS, UM, PLANNING AND ZONING JUST CHANGED ITS SCHEDULE.
SO NOW THEY'RE MEETING ONCE A MONTH INSTEAD OF TWICE A MONTH.
SO WILL YOU HAVE ANY ISSUES MAKING THE MEETINGS? CAN YOU PLAN AROUND THEM? I BELIEVE I CAN, YES.
AND YOU SAID FIRST TUESDAY OF EVERY MONTH? RIGHT.
AND MY SECOND QUESTION IS, WE'RE WE'VE BEEN TOLD THROUGH THE YEARS BY VARIOUS ENGINEERS, BUILDERS, DEVELOPERS, THAT OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE IS A DISINCENTIVE MM-HMM
AND I WONDERED IF YOU HAD ANY OPINION ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA BE GOING THROUGH MAJOR CHANGES, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS.
SO DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ABOUT THE AREAS AS FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE AS A COMMERCIAL DEVELOPER OF THE THINGS THAT ARE, ARE, UH, MAYBE OVERREACH OR OBSTRUCTIONS TO OR EXTRA COSTS OR COULD YOU GIVE EXAMPLES? SURE.
AND, UH, MAYOR PLU, AND I GUESS I CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT WITHOUT HAVING ENCYCLOPEDIC KNOWLEDGE OF IT.
UH, IN GENERAL, UM, DEVELOPERS WHO GENERALLY COME IN HERE AS APPLICANTS ARE FOR-PROFIT DEVELOPERS.
[00:40:01]
TRYING TO GET YOU ALL TO APPROVE A PROJECT SO THEY CAN MAKE A PROFIT.AND, UH, ANYTHING THAT YOU ADD BEYOND THE BASE LEVEL, THE MOST VANILLA DESIGN ADDS COST.
BUT, AND PROJECT SEDONA HAS CERTAIN EXPECTATIONS AND DESIGN STANDARDS THAT PROBABLY ARE A LITTLE LOFTIER THAN LET'S SAY GLOBE ARIZONA AS AN EXAMPLE.
I'M NOT TRYING PICK ON GLOBE, BUT IT'S A SIMILAR SIZE CITY AND, YOU KNOW, LITTLE DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCE.
SO, UH, ANYTHING THAT YOU REQUIRE OF THIS DEVELOPER IMPACTS THEIR COSTS.
'CAUSE THEY GENERALLY CAN'T PASS THAT ON TO THEIR END USER OR IF THEY CAN, IT'S JUST GONNA COME IN AND INCREASE RENT.
SO THEY'RE GONNA GENERALLY BE RESISTANT TO THAT.
UH, THAT'S JUST, BUT HONESTLY, THERE'S A COST OF DOING BUSINESS IN SEDONA.
AND ONE OF THEM IS, IS YOU'RE GONNA HAVE HIGHER EXPECTATIONS.
AND, UM, WHEN I TALK ABOUT BRANDING, UH, FOR A CITY, WELL, THAT MEANS YOU'RE GONNA HAVE CERTAIN DESIGN STANDARDS THAT MAY REQUIRE USE OF MATERIALS THAT ARE MORE EXPENSIVE, LET'S SAY, THAN STUCCO.
YOU KNOW, NOT NOTHING AT STUCCO, BUT I MEAN, JUST THAT'S A LOWER COST, UH, MATERIAL.
WHEREAS ROCK FACE AND, UH, THAT KIND OF THING IS MORE EXPENSIVE.
AND SO YOU MAY ASK FOR DESIGN STANDARDS OR FOUR FOOT SIDEWALKS INSTEAD OF THREE FOOT SIDEWALKS.
I MEAN, I GO ON DOWN THE LAUNDRY LIST.
I'M DOING A PROJECT RIGHT NOW.
I'M WORKING ON A PROJECT NOW RIGHT NOW FOR WALMART.
I'VE ACTUALLY GOT THREE PROJECTS GOING ON FOR WALMART RIGHT NOW.
AND WALMART'S ATTITUDE IS THAT THEY, AND, UH, THEY KNOW WHAT'S SUCCESSFUL FOR THEM.
THEY'RE THE MOST SUCCESSFUL RETAILER IN THE WORLD, AND THEY KNOW WHAT WORKS FOR THEM.
SO THEY WANT WHAT THEY WANT BECAUSE THAT WORKS FOR THEM.
UM, SO THE QUESTION IS HOW, HOW MUCH CAN YOU GET THEM TO ELEVATE THEIR BASE MODEL, THEIR MOST VANILLA MODEL TO GET WHAT WOULD MAYBE MAKE IT THE NICEST WALMART IN THE REGION OR THE CITY OR THE STATE OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE, AND GET THEM TO INCUR THOSE COSTS 'CAUSE IT'S GONNA COST THEM MORE MONEY.
UM, AND SO YOU WORK TOWARDS THAT.
AND SO I GUESS IT, IT, IT, LONG ANSWER, THAT'S A LONG-WINDED ANSWER, BUT IT'S ONE I THINK I FEEL I CAN, UH, EXPOUND ON A LITTLE BIT.
AND THAT IS JUST THAT, UH, YOU'RE GONNA ASK FOR MORE AND TO, TO DEVELOP IN SEDONA THAN YOU ARE IN, I SAY GLOBE, ARIZONA, BUT OF CORRESPONDING, YOU DO THE SAME THING IN SUN VALLEY, IDAHO, OR TELLURIDE, COLORADO OR SOME OF YOUR PEER GROUP CITIES.
'CAUSE SEDONA IS SPECIAL AND THERE'S A COST OF ENTRY HERE, EVEN OVER COTTONWOOD OR CAMP VERDE AS AN EXAMPLE.
DOES THAT HELP YOU? CAN I ADD ON, SO WHAT GUIDING PRINCIPLES OR VALUES WOULD YOU USE IN, IN CONSIDERING CHANGES TO THE CODE? WELL, I, I THINK THE, THE BIGGEST THING I WOULD, ALL I WOULD, I WOULD TRY TO DO IS LOOK AT A FRESH LENS AND SAY, OKAY, WE MAY HAVE, WE HAVE THIS REQUIREMENT WHY MM-HMM
WHY IS THIS REQUIREMENT THERE? DOES IT STILL ADD THE VALUE? SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA ONCE UPON A TIME.
IS IT STILL A GOOD IDEA? IS IT STILL A RELEVANT IDEA? UM, OR IS THERE A BETTER IDEA NOW? RIGHT? AND SO I GUESS THAT'S JUST TAKE A FRESH LOOK AT IT, BUT UNDERSTAND THAT THEY, SOMEONE FELT THERE WAS VALUE AND PUT IT IN THE CODE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
WHAT WAS THE, WHAT DID THEY, WHY DID THEY FEEL IT WAS A GOOD IDEA? AND DOES THAT IDEA REMAIN? IF IT DOES, THEN YOU JUST, YOU KEEP IT, RIGHT.
SO I THINK OF THINGS IN EVALUATING CO CHANGES, LIKE DOES IT PROVIDE FURTHER CLARITY? IS IT MORE CONSISTENT? DOES IT REFLECT OUR COMMUNITY VALUES? MM-HMM
BECAUSE THINGS ARE ALWAYS CHANGING AND SHIFTING AND NOTHING STAYS STATIONARY.
SO THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT I THINK OF UNDERSTOOD.
BUT I, I DON'T THINK SEDONA IS TRENDY.
SO I DON'T THINK WE'RE SUBJECT TO THE WHIMS OF TRENDS AS MUCH AS MAYBE SOME OTHER AREAS ARE.
UM, I THINK WE'RE SHOULD BE A LITTLE LEVEL OF PREDICT A LEVEL OF PREDICTABILITY, BUT QUALITY, I THINK IT'S SPECIAL, IS THE WAY I'D LIKE TO LOOK AT IT.
UM, RELATIVELY RECENTLY, BOTH PNZ AND COUNSEL CONSIDERED A REZONING APPLICATION AT 50 TRANQUIL, UH, ALSO CALLED THE ME DOLE PROJECT.
UH, DID YOU FOLLOW THAT BY CHANCE? NO, SIR, I DIDN'T.
UH, SIMILARLY, UH, THERE'S A PROJECT KNOWN AS A GOODROW PROJECT THAT, UH, RECENTLY WAS AT P AND Z AND WILL SOON BE AT, UH, COUNCIL, UH, ANOTHER HOUSING, WELL, THIS ONE ACTUALLY IS A PROPOSED, SPECIFICALLY PROPOSED HOUSING PROJECT AS OPPOSED TO A REZONE.
UM, DID YOU FOLLOW THAT AT ALL? YOU KNOW, WHAT'S GOING ON ON THAT ONE BY CHANCE? I, I APOLOGIZE TO THE GROUP.
I, I GOT MY OWN BATTLES TO FIGHT, SO TO SPEAK, IN TERMS OF
[00:45:01]
THE ONES I WAS WORKING ON NEW MEXICO.SO I DIDN'T, UH, FOCUS SO MUCH ON WHAT WAS GOING ON HERE.
THE ONES I PROJECTS I'M ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN.
I'VE GOT OVER 50 PROJECTS I'M ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN.
I, I WAS ASKING JUST TO SEE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS WAS.
UH, MAYBE A LITTLE MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACKING ON EITHER PNC OR COUNCIL IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, HOW WE APPROACH THOSE.
SO YOU HAVE ONE MORE YEAR THAT YOU SAY YOU'RE GOING TO BE ACTIVE MM-HMM
UM, PROFESSIONALLY, DO YOU HAVE ANY CLIENTS OR EX EXPECTED CLIENTS HERE IN THE SEDONA AREA? AND IF SO, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO HANDLE THAT? I DO NOT.
I'M NOT LICENSED IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA.
UM, I DON'T ACTIVELY REPRESENT ANYONE IN ARIZONA, UH, OR, OR SEDONA SPECIFICALLY.
UM, SO I DON'T, I DON'T SEE A CONFLICT PER SE.
I, I'M A REAL ESTATE INVESTOR.
I DON'T, OTHER THAN MY PERSONAL RESIDENCE, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING IN SEDONA AT THE PRESENT TIME.
AND THAT'S NOT TO SAY I WON'T, BUT AT THE PRESENT TIME, I DON'T HAVE ANY ACTIVE INVESTMENTS.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I, I HAVE ANOTHER ONE.
UM, SOMETHING THAT ALSO COMES UP, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES THE ROOM IS FILLED WITH PEOPLE FROM THE PUBLIC MM-HMM
AND SO I'M INTERESTED IN UNDERSTANDING, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH OR HOW IMPORTANT IS PUBLIC INPUT FOR YOU IN PARTICULAR IN PROJECTS WHERE IT MAY BE AGAINST WHAT CITY STAFF IS RECOMMENDING FOR A PROJECT HERE.
LIKE HOW WOULD YOU WEIGH PUBLIC INPUT VERSUS STAFF RECOMMENDATION? UM, I'VE SAID, COULD YOU EXCUSE ME FOR A SECOND? COULD YOU REPEAT YOUR QUESTION? YOU'RE, YOU'RE NOT TALKING INTO THE MIC.
WE'RE HAVING A HARD TIME HEARING YOU.
IT FEELS AWKWARD TO BE TALKING THIS WAY.
I WAS ASKING YOU BASICALLY, HOW IMPORTANT IS PUBLIC INPUT WHEN EVALUATING A ZONE CHANGE OR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT? SOMETIMES THE ROOM FILLS UP WITH PUBLIC INPUT.
AND HOW MUCH WOULD YOU WEIGH PUBLIC INPUT AGAINST IF IT, IF IT'S NOT IN ALIGNMENT WITH STAFF RECOMMENDATION? UH, I'VE BEEN IN A LOT OF THOSE PUBLIC MEETINGS AND, UM, I'VE, UH, BEEN ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE ISSUE, IF YOU WILL, AND A NUMBER OF THEM IN TERMS OF BEING NOT THAT, UM, HAVING THE POPULAR STANCE, UH, I'M NOT UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
UH, BUT THAT'S NOT IMPORTANT FOR ME TO BE POPULAR, UH, AT ALL.
UM, I THINK, AGAIN, WHAT IS LEGAL, WHAT IS ETHICAL, WHAT IS PRACTICAL, UH, IS KIND OF THE FILTER.
I RUN THINGS THROUGH, KEEPS, KEEPS THINGS CLEAR AND SIMPLE IN LIGHT OF EMOTION.
I'VE BEEN IN, I'VE LITERALLY BEEN IN HEARINGS WHERE THERE ARE PEOPLE WITH PLACARDS SCREAMING, UH, YOU KNOW, 350 PEOPLE CAN SEAT BE SEATED IN THE PLANNING ZONING MEETING IN ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO AS AN EXAMPLE.
AND, UH, THEY GET VERY EMOTIONAL.
UM, I THINK THAT, UH, THE HAVE TO, FIRST OF ALL, WEIGH WISE STAFF RECOMMENDING WHAT THEY'RE RECOMMENDING AND WHAT'S THE JUSTIFICATION FOR IT, AND MAKE SURE THAT IT'S CORRECT, FACTUALLY STATED ACCURATELY.
AND THEN LISTEN TO WHAT THE PUBLIC COMMENT IS.
'CAUSE STAFF DOESN'T ALWAYS GET IT RIGHT, BUT I'M SURE THEY ENDEAVORED ALWAYS GET IT RIGHT, BUT THEY MAY OR MAY NOT ALWAYS GET IT RIGHT.
AND SO WE HAVE TO BE OPEN-MINDED THAT THERE MAY BE A DIFFERENT POSITION TO BE TAKEN.
BY THE SAME TOKEN, I THINK THAT, UM, YOU HAVE TO, UH, FACTOR IN, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST AFRAID OF CHANGE AND WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT ANYTHING BECAUSE IT'S DIFFERENT AND HAVE TO KIND OF FILTER THAT IN A LITTLE BIT TOO.
ARE THEY TRULY OBJECTING TO THE PROJECT, THIS, THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT AND THESE ASPECTS OF THE PROJECT THAT MAY NEED TO BE ADDRESSED? OR DO THEY JUST AGAIN, WANNA RAISE THE DRAW BRIDGE? I'M HERE NOW IN SEDONA, I WANNA RAISE THE DRAW BRIDGE.
I DON'T WANT ANYTHING TO CHANGE, YOU KNOW, I WANNA JUST THE WAY IT IS.
AND SO I GUESS THAT'S WHAT I TRY TO, TO MONITOR AS WELL.
DOES THE PERSON WHO'S, WHO'S THERE STATED OBJECTION, HAVE A LEGITIMATE OBJECTION THAT HAS MERIT OR THEY, THEY'RE JUST 'CAUSE THEY DON'T, LIKE, THEY DON'T WANT CHANGE.
AND THEN I GUESS MY LAST QUESTION IS, IS THE COMMUNITY PLAN IS A LONG-TERM VISION MM-HMM
FOR THE COMMUNITY, AND THEY'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME CREATING THAT.
SO THE COMMUNITY PLAN IS A LONG TERM VISION FOR THE, YOU KNOW, THAT THE COMMUNITY SPENT A LOT OF TIME DEVELOPING.
AND I'M WONDERING, YOU KNOW, HOW IMPORTANT DO YOU THINK IT IS WHEN WE'RE EVALUATING PROJECTS TO LOOK BEYOND JUST THE INDIVIDUAL PROJECT AND AT THE C*M, CUMULATIVE EFFECTS OF WHAT'S HAPPENING AND NOT JUST SPECIFIC TO THAT PROJECT? WELL, I THINK, AGAIN, A VALID POINT, BUT IF THE, IF THE GOAL IS WE'RE HERE AND WE WANT TO GET THERE, AND THAT'S WHAT THE COMMUNITY LONG TERM PLAN IS, HOW DOES THIS PROJECT GET US THERE INCREMENTALLY,
[00:50:02]
YOU KNOW, IS IT A ARE WE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION OR ARE WE MOVING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION? IS IT A, UH, SOMEBODY TOLD ME ONE TIME, UM, ONCE YOU FIGURED OUT YOU'RE GOING DOWN THE WRONG PATH, NO MATTER HOW FAR YOU'VE GONE, ONCE YOU FIGURED OUT YOU'RE GOING DOWN THE WRONG PATH, STOP.AND SO I GUESS THE POINT IS, TRY NOT TO GO DOWN THE WRONG PATH VERY FAR IF WE THINK THIS PROJECT'S NOT ALIGNED WITH WHAT OUR LONG-TERM GOALS ARE.
SO I GUESS, IS IT INCREMENTALLY MOVING US FORWARD OR IS, IS IT PULLING US AWAY FROM THE, THE, THE VISION.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY.
UM, EARLIER I THINK YOU SAID YOU THOUGHT OUR SIGN CODE WAS TOO STRICT.
DID I HEAR THAT CORRECTLY? I GUESS THAT'S A, A SHORT TERM WAY OF PUTTING IT.
I, I FIND THAT IT'S TOO RESTRICTIVE, I GUESS IS, UH, IN TERMS OF SIZE AND LOCATION, IT, IT JUST, UH, THEY'RE HARD TO SEE IN SOME CASES OR THEY'RE, UH, I CAN'T FIND WHERE I'M GOING 'CAUSE I'M NOT, I CAN'T SEE ADDRESS NUMBERS OR I CAN'T, CAN'T, THE SIGNS DON'T POINT OUT THE, UH, THE LOCATION THAT I'M TRYING TO FIND.
SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ON-PREMISE SIGNS, NOT BILLBOARDS.
I BEG PARDON? YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ON-PREMISE SIGNS? ON-PREMISE SIGNS LARGELY, YES SIR.
WHAT IS YOUR PLEASURE? DO YOU WANT TO, UH, GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION OR DO YOU WANNA STAY ON THE DAAS? I, I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION.
IS THERE A SECOND FOR THAT? I'LL SECOND IT.
CAN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE AGENDA FOR THAT? BECAUSE IT SAYS FOR LEGAL COUNSEL.
PARDON ME? NO, BECAUSE IT'S A PERSONNEL ISSUE.
IT'S A, OH NO, WE'RE, WE CAN GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION.
THAT'S NOT AN A LEGAL ISSUE, BUT I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S NOT, WE CHOOSE TO, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THE PRINTED AGENDA SAYS.
UH, YOU WANNA VOTE? WOULD YOU LIKE AN OFFICIAL MOTION? YES, I MAKE A MOTION THAT
[4. EXECUTIVE SESSION]
WE ENTER INTO EXECUTIVE, UH, SESSION FOR DISCUSSION.OKAY, SO WE HAVE FOUR TO THREE.
WHAT DID YOU MAYOR OH, I DIDN'T VOTE.
SO IT'S FOUR TO THREE AND SARAH SAYS YES.
SO WE'RE ACTUALLY FIVE TO THREE I TO SAY.
I DON'T, I DON'T THINK I VOTE, BUT NOT VOTING.
SHE IS A VOTING MEMBER FOR THIS.
SHE'S SUPPORTING IT, BUT SHE'S NOT A VOTING MEMBER.
THIS IS A COUNCIL MEETING? CORRECT.
SO LET'S ADJOURN TO EXECUTIVE SESSION AND WE, YOU CAN STAY IF YOU WISH.
WE HAVE, ACTUALLY, I'M NOT SURE IF WE'RE GOING TO, WE'RE GONNA RUN RIGHT.
WE HAVE A THREE 30 EXECUTIVE SESSION ON A DIFFERENT TOPIC.
SO I'M NOT SURE HOW LONG THIS IS GOING TO TAKE, BUT STAY AND WE'LL LET YOU KNOW.
DO YOU NEED TO STAY FOR A FEW MINUTES? SURE.
AT LEAST TILL THREE 30 YOU TO STEP OUT OR NO, NO, NO.
WE'RE GOING, WE WE'RE GONNA STEP
IS THERE A MOTION BASED ON EXECUTIVE SESSION? YES.
UM, I MOVE TO APPROVE RESOLUTION 2026 DASH OH ONE BINDING WAIVER OF ENFORCEMENT FOR THE LISTED PROPERTIES AS LISTED ON THE AGENDA.
OPPOSED? OKAY, WE'RE UNANIMOUS.
[5. ADJOURNMENT ]
THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED AND WE WILL BE BACK AT FOUR 30.