* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:03] NOT THAT WE'RE COMPETITIVE. HELLO EVERYBODY. [1. CALL TO ORDER/PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE/MOMENT OF SILENCE] GOOD AFTERNOON AND WELCOME TO THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING ON JANUARY 27TH. I CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER AT 4:30 PM I'M GONNA ASK YOU TO JOIN ME IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. AND NOW A MOMENT OF SILENCE. THANK YOU, MADAM CLERK. CAN YOU DO THE ROLL CALL, PLEASE? MAYOR PLU. HERE. VICE MAYOR FOLTZ. PRESENT. COUNCILOR DUNN? HERE. COUNCILOR FURMAN. PRESENT. COUNCILOR HOSSEINI? HERE. COUNCILOR KINSELLA. PRESENT. COUNSELOR. FAF HERE. OKAY, THANK YOU. NOW [3. CONSENT ITEMS - APPROVE] WE'RE ON THREE, ITEM THREE AND I HAVE A CARD TO PULL. UH, CONSENT. ITEM NUMBER H. ARE THERE ANY OTHER PEOPLE FROM THE COUNCIL OR THE AUDIENCE THAT, OR THE STAFF THAT WANNA PULL ANY CONSENT ITEMS? OKAY, IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE REST OF THEM? I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE CONSENT TO ITEMS THREE A THROUGH G. SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. OKAY. THANK YOU. WERE UNANIMOUS, JOE. AND, UH, ANNETTE, DO YOU WANNA SPEAK TO H OR SOMEBODY ELSE? KURT? PER, PER THE RULES, IT'LL BE HEARD, UH, UNDER NINE A NOW, YOU KNOW, IT'S NEW. WHAT CAN I SAY? YES. OKAY. NUMBER FOUR. APPOINTMENTS. NONE. UH, NUMBER [5. SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY MAYOR/COUNCILORS/CITY MANAGER & COUNCIL ASSIGNMENTS] FIVE, SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY MAYOR, COUNCILOR, CITY MANAGER, AND COUNCIL ASSIGNMENTS. I SEE YOU COUNCILOR FURMAN WITH YOUR HAND RAISED. THANK YOU, MAYOR. JUST REPORTING ON MY, UM, COMMITTEE ACTIVITIES. NA, WE DID APPROVE, UH, BYLAWS, AMENDMENT, AND WE ARE WORKING IN A PARALLEL SENSE WITH THE CITY ON STATE LEGISLATIVE BILL POSITIONS, BUT I'M COORDINATING WITH THE CITY ON THOSE RESPONSES AS WELL. AND THEN, UH, THE FIRST MEETING OF THE YAVAPAI COUNTY WATER RESOURCES AND OPEN SPACE COMMITTEE WAS HELD. UM, NOT EVERYONE THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE THERE WAS THERE YET. I THINK IT WAS THE FIRST MEETING SCHEDULING ISSUE. UM, WE, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'LL, UH, WE'LL PLAN THREE TO FIVE MEETINGS AND WE BEGAN A PRIORITIZATION PROCESS FOR THE COMMITTEE. SO THERE REALLY ISN'T MUCH TO REPORT YET, BUT I THINK THE, IT, IT'LL REALLY START MOVING ON OUR NEXT MEETING, WHICH IS IN MARCH, I BELIEVE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE? OKAY. I JUST WANTED TO REPORT THAT THE CITY ISSUED A PRESS RELEASE TODAY, OR A STATEMENT REGARDING THE SEDONA POLICE DEPARTMENT AND ITS RELATIONSHIP TO, UH, ICE AND IMMIGRATION AND WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT AND THANKING THE COMMUNITY FOR ITS, UH, CALMNESS. AND ITS, UH, PROTESTS. ANY PROTESTS OR VIGILS OR ANYTHING THAT HAS BEEN HELD, UH, IN MEMORY OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE, WHO WERE KILLED IN THESE INCIDENTS WAS CALM AND PEACEFUL AND THANKING THE COMMUNITY FOR THEIR RESTRAINT. OKAY, UH, WE HAVE NO EXECUTIVE SESSION REPORT 'CAUSE THERE WAS NO EXECUTIVE SESSION. [7. PUBLIC FORUM] AND NOW WE HAVE THE PUBLIC FORUM. I HAVE ONE CARD FROM TIM PERRY. GOOD EVENING COUNSELORS. MY NAME IS TIM PERRY AND I LIVE IN SEDONA. IN TONIGHT'S INSTALLMENT OF THE LIES TOLD BY THE CITY OF SEDONA, WE'RE GOING TO CONFRONT THE IMPLICIT LIE THAT IS AT THE CORE OF GOVERNMENT HERE AND EVERYWHERE ELSE, THAT IT IS POSSIBLE FOR INEQUALITY OR AUTHORITY TO EXIST AMONG HUMANS. IF THE COUNCIL HAD STUDIED LOGIC, THE COUNCIL WOULD BE FAMILIAR WITH THE LAW OF IDENTITY, WHICH STATES VERY CLEARLY THAT ANYTHING IS EQUAL TO ITSELF, AS WELL AS COROLLARY THE TRANSITIVE PROPERTY OF EQUALITY, WHICH CAN BE EXPRESSED AS ANY TWO THINGS EQUAL TO THE SAME THING OR EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER. THESE LAWS ARE WHY WE HAVE A UNIVERSE MADE OUT OF COHERENT MATTER IN THE FIRST PLACE. [00:05:01] NOW, WHEN WE APPLY THESE LAWS TO HUMANS, THEY INDICATE THAT ANY HUMAN, BY VIRTUE OF BEING A HUMAN IS EQUAL TO ANY OTHER HUMAN, AND CONSEQUENTLY HAS THE SAME PACKAGE OF RIGHTS AS EVERY OTHER HUMAN. THERE ARE NO SPECIAL RIGHTS. SPECIAL RIGHTS WOULD BE A CONTRADICTION, AND THE CONTRADICTION CANNOT EXIST. WHEN WE THINK ABOUT IT, WE REALIZE THIS INCLUDES SPECIAL RIGHTS, SUCH AS THE PRESUMED RIGHT TO GIVE AN ORDER AND HAVE IT OBEYED WITHOUT RESISTANCE. THE RIGHT TO EXCLUSIVE POSSESSION OF AN OBJECT, AND THE RIGHT TO EXCLUSIVE ACCESS TO A PIECE OF INFORMATION. ALL OF THESE ARE SPECIAL RIGHTS THAT ARE CONTRADICTIONS AND CANNOT EXIST AT ONE STROKE, LOGIC SWEEPS AWAY GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY, PROPERTY AND PRIVACY. THESE ARE SUBJECTIVE MENTAL CONSTRUCTS THAT EXIST ONLY WITHIN OUR IMAGINATIONS BY VIRTUE OF OUR CREATIVITY AS HUMANS. AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT OUR CREATIVITY AS HUMANS, IT'S INTERESTING TO THINK ABOUT, UH, THE PARTICULAR CREATIVITY OF THE CITY OF SEDONA, UH, WHEN IT COMES TO ITS OWN ILLOGIC OF AUTHORITY. FOR EXAMPLE, IT WAS REPORTED TO ME THAT, UH, ON FRIDAY NIGHT, UH, OUTSIDE DAWN DELUCA THE LOVELY BUT, UH, UNTALENTED CATHERINE BEERS AND FIVE OF HER OTHER STORM TROOPER COLLEAGUES, SEDONAS VERY OWN ICE AGENTS, JUMPED ON A HOMELESS MAN AND GROUND HIS FACE INTO THE GRAVEL IN FRONT OF THE FOUNTAIN. I AM SURE THAT LISA DAHL AND HER CUSTOMERS WERE AWAIT. IF THE POLICE DO BRUTAL THINGS IN PUBLIC, VISITORS LEAVE IN HORROR, DON'T COME BACK AND WRITE HORRIBLE REVIEWS. TOURISM DROPS, BUSINESS DROPS. AND I GET IT. THE POLICE BRUTALITY IS AN AID OF THE TOURISM SUPPRESSION PROGRAM. CAN WE GET A CHORUS OF THE HORSE TO WHISTLE SONG FROM THE STORM TROOPERS IN THE BACK OF THE ROOM? NO. MAYBE NEXT TIME, ONE OTHER THING THAT YOU ALL SEEM TO FORGET, THE FUNDAMENTAL AND UNALIENABLE RIGHT OF ANY INDIVIDUAL TO EXIST WITHOUT PAYING EITHER TAXES TO THE STATE OR LABOR SERVICE TO AN EMPLOYER CANNOT BE ABROGATED. I HAVE ANOTHER CARD, UH, SPRING GRAPH. SPRING, YOU KNOW THE DRILL. MY NAME IS SPRING GRAPH. I AM A RESIDENT OF THE VILLAGE OF OAK CREEK, AND WE HAVE A LOT OF IMPORTANT TOPICS TO TALK ABOUT TODAY, BUT I JUST WANTED TO FOLLOW UP WITH YOU ABOUT THE WEEK OF SERVICE THAT JUST ENDED AND GIVE YOU THE RESULTS. THE 2026 WEEK OF SERVICE ENGAGED 201 VOLUNTEERS DELIVERING OVER 600 HOURS OF COMMUNITY SERVICE ACROSS 12 EVENTS HOSTED BY 13 NONPROFIT PARTNERS. VOLUNTEERS SUPPORTED EFFORTS IN FOOD SECURITY, ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARDSHIP, AND COMMUNITY SERVICES. GOVERNMENT AND CHAMBER ARE THE SKELETON AND MUSCLE OF A COMMUNITY, BUT NONPROFITS ARE THE HEART. ENVIRONMENTAL PARTNERS INCLUDED A DEQ, EXCUSE ME, INCLUDING A DEQ, CITY OF SEDONA PARKS AND RECS. OAK CREEK WATERSHED COUNCIL AND FRIENDS OF THE VERDE RIVER REMOVED 225 POUNDS OF TRASH FROM SEDONA AND OAK CREEK CANYON. THIS WAS A BIG, UH, A VERY BIG GROWTH FROM LAST YEAR. WE ONLY HAD A HUNDRED, WELL ONLY WE HAD 137 VOLUNTEERS. AND WITH 201 VOLUNTEERS, IT SHOWS SUBSTANTIAL GROWTH AND RAPID, UH, INVOLVEMENT BY THE COMMUNITY. THE COMMUNITY IS LEANING IN TO THIS MOVEMENT, AND I COULDN'T BE MORE THRILLED. WE'RE ALREADY PLANNING FOR THE 2027 WEEK OF SERVICE. THIS CREATES A SIGNATURE WEEK LONG EVENT FOR ECO-CONSCIOUS VISITORS AND SUPPORTS THE CITY'S INBOUND MARKETING EFFORTS DURING LOW SEASON. IT POSITIONS SEDONA AS A DESTINATION FOR BOTH BEAUTY AND PURPOSE. WE'RE CONSTANTLY LOOKING FOR WAYS TO IMPROVE OUR EFFORTS. WE'RE IN THIS FOR THE JOURNEY, NOT THE SPRINT. AND THAT JOURNEY IS BUILT ON CONNECTION AND COLLABORATION. FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH VOLUNTEER, SEDONA, WE HAVE SOME BROCHURES ON THE TABLE. PLEASE FEEL F FEEL FREE TO TAKE ONE AS YOU LEAVE. THANK YOU. OH, SPRING BEFORE YOU GO, YOU TALK ABOUT THIS MORNING AND YOUR GIFT. OH, YES. WELL, THIS MORNING WAS THE RIBBON CUTTING FOR THE CUTTING FOR THE LOCAL COFFEE SHOP, WHICH IS, UH, RIGHT NEXT TO SENIOR BOBS AND THEY'RE OUR FIRST SPONSOR AND, UM, THEY GIVE US 1% OF THEIR PROFITS AND WE RECEIVED A CHECK FOR $100. KRISTEN, WHO'S THE OWNER, IS ALSO ONE OF OUR BOARD MEMBERS. COOL. OKAY. I HAVE ANOTHER CARD. SANDY AND VINNY. YES, YES, PLEASE. UH, GO TO THE MIC. YOU HAVE [00:10:01] THREE MINUTES. YOU CAN BRING THE, THE MIC DOWN TO MEET YOUR HEIGHT. OH, IF YOU COULD GIVE US YOUR NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE, PLEASE. YOU DON'T HAVE A SOAP BOX . OKAY. MY NAME'S SANDY MCG. I LIVE ON INSPIRATIONAL DRIVE, HAPPILY FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS, AND I OWN A HOUSE THERE AND I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE SPEEDERS ON OUR STREET. SO I AM IMPLORING YOU TO PUT IN SPEED BUMPS. WE HAVE, WE DON'T HAVE SIDEWALKS, WE DON'T HAVE LIGHTING. IT'S A VERY DARK LONG STREET, SO IT'S IDEAL FOR PEOPLE TO SPEED UP OR DOWN IT, WHICH THEY DO AT ALL HOURS OF THE DAY AND EVENING. UM, THE KID THAT USED TO LIVE NEXT DOOR GOT HIT BY A CAR YEARS AGO AND I JUST GOT BUMPED. BUT I MEAN, IT WAS AN AWAKENING MOMENT. UM, WE HAVE OLD PEOPLE PETS, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT ARE GOING UP AND DOWN THE STREET. AND, UH, MY CAT VINNY, WHO, UM, REGRETFULLY COULDN'T BE HERE TODAY TO FURTHER HIS POLITICAL ACTIVISM IS AT HOME SLEEPING. AND, BUT I WOULD LOVE, EVERYBODY LOVES MY CAT AND HE GETS OUT SOMETIMES AND I WOULD BE DEVASTATED IF SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, HE GOT SQUISHED BY, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE FLYING DOWN THE STREET. YEAH. MY OTHER CAT MERLIN DID, HE WAS A NEIGHBOR'S CAT AND WE KIND OF SHARED THE CAT, I GUESS ANYWAY, SO, UH, THERE ARE SPEED BUMPS ON VIEW, SO A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN BE, YOU KNOW, IN THE MIDDLE OR UP TOWARDS THE TOP COME AROUND AND FLY DOWN. INSPIRATIONAL. IT'D BE VERY NICE GET SPEED BUMP IF WE CAN GET SPEED BUMPS. YOU PUT SOMETHING UP THERE THAT TELLS HOW FAST YOU'RE GOING. IS THAT A PRECURSOR TO A SPEED BUMP? WE CAN'T ANSWER YOU. OH, BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT THIS OH, OKAY. THE STRUCTURE. OKAY. BUT IF YOU SEE THIS GENTLEMAN HERE, ANDY, SO F*****G FUNNY. YOU ARE B******T M***********S. UM, MADAM MAYOR, IF YOU CAN GIVE YOUR NAME TO ANDY. YES. SO WE, UM, NEED TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE THE CORRECT EMAIL ADDRESS FOR MS. MCGINN. I BELIEVE YOU SAID MCGINN. UM, BECAUSE WE DID TRY TO EMAIL BASED ON THE CARD FROM LAST TIME, BUT, UM, WE, IT DIDN'T GO THROUGH. SO IF WE COULD PLEASE GET YOUR YES. MAKE SURE WE HAVE YOUR CORRECT EMAIL ADDRESS. AND YES, PUTTING OUT THE SPEED TRAILER WAS THE FIRST STEP IN GATHERING THE DATA FOR YOUR REQUEST. YEAH, AND YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF CONSTRUCTION GOING ON. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING WITH ALL THESE ROCKS, BUT THEY'RE BRINGING 'EM BACK AND FORTH ALL OVER THE STREET AND THE BUS, THE BUS DRIVER WHO'S, YEAH. AND SO WE'RE VERY HAPPY TO FOLLOW UP WITH YOU ON ALL OF THOSE CONCERNS. OKAY, THANKS. SO IF YOU CAN, UM, MAKE SURE WE HAVE THE CORRECT EMAIL ADDRESS FOR YOU, PLEASE. THANK YOU. YEAH. OKAY. UH, PROCLAMATIONS, RECOGNITIONS AND AWARDS, WE HAVE NONE. [9.a. Discussion/possible action regarding items pulled off 3. Consent Items.] SO WE'LL GO TO REGULAR BUSINESS. AND THE FIRST ITEM IS THE, UH, DISCUSSION OF ITEMS PULLED OFF OF CONSENT. SO TIM, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. GOOD EVENING COUNSELORS. MY NAME IS TIM PERRY AND I LIVE IN SEDONA. THESE ARE TWO VERY ODDLY CONJOINED ITEMS, BUT AS FAR AS THE FIRST ONE GOES, THE PROPOSAL FOR A COUNCIL AUDIT SUBCOMMITTEE, THIS IS JUST A PERFORMATIVE FARCE. THE VICE MAYOR'S ORIGINAL SUGGESTION AT THE MEETING INCLUDED THE POSSIBILITY OF A CITIZEN COMMITTEE OR GROUP OF SOME KIND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN EXERCISING OVERSIGHT OVERSTAFF. AND THAT'S WHAT WE ACTUALLY NEED IN THIS TOWN. CITIZENS TO PUT THE FEAR OF GOD INTO THESE WORTHLESS PARASITIC BUREAUCRATS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO GET FIRED OR INDICTED. WE ALL KNOW THAT THEY'RE MORAL IF NOT LEGAL CRIMINALS. SO WE'RE JUST FLAVORING TO GET A LOOK AT WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON. BUT THIS PROPOSAL, PROPOSAL FOR A COUNCIL COMMITTEE THAT WILL BE LED BY THE NOSE, BY STAFF ANYWAY, YOU MIGHT AS WELL DO NOTHING. THE OTHER PROPOSAL THAT'S SUBSUMED UNDER THIS AGENDA ITEM IS QUITE SIMPLY JUST AN ACT OF RIDICULOUS GREED BY THE BLOATED MILLIONAIRES WHO MAKE UP THIS COUNCIL. YOU WANT TO BE PAID, FORGIVE ME FOR YOUR LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF HISTORY, BUT PUBLIC OFFICE IS A PUBLIC SERVICE. [00:15:01] IT IS A SERVICE TO YOUR COMMUNITY. YOU DO NOT GET PAID FOR IT. IT IS NOT A JOB. YOU DO IT OUT OF THE GOODNESS OF YOUR HEART FOR THE GOOD OF EVERYBODY. AND THIS NOTION THAT GOVERNMENT IS TO BE PROFESSIONALIZED BY EXPERTS IS NOT ONLY AN EROSION OF DEMOCRACY, IT IS THE VERY ANTITHESIS OF DEMOCRACY. WHAT WAS PARTICULARLY REVOLTING ABOUT THIS PROPOSAL WHEN IT WAS FIRST BROUGHT UP WAS THE IDEA THAT IT MIGHT SOMEHOW HELP GET YOUNG PEOPLE ONTO COUNCIL IF THEY WERE PROMISED A SALARY. WELL, WE ALL KNOW WHY THERE ARE NO YOUNG PEOPLE ON COUNCIL. IT'S A CONSEQUENCE OF ELECTORAL DEMOGRAPHICS. SEDONA HAS A FEW MORE DEMOCRATS THAN IT DOES EITHER REPUBLICANS OR INDEPENDENTS. AND THE DEMOCRATS ARE EXTREMELY WELL ORGANIZED WHERE THE REPUBLICANS AND THE INDEPENDENTS ARE NOT. THAT RESULTS IN THE CONSISTENT OF ELECTION OF DEMOCRATS TO OFFICE. BUT THE CATCH WITH THAT IS THAT YOUNG PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY IN THE RURAL REST, DON'T JOIN THE PARTY OF BIG GOVERNMENT AND TYRANNY, WHICH IS WHY WE DON'T HAVE ANY YOUNG PEOPLE GETTING ELECTED TO OFFICE. THAT WAY, IF ANYTHING EVER SHAKES UP THE ELECTORAL MAP IN THIS TOWN AND THE REPUBLICANS AND THE INDEPENDENTS GET ORGANIZED, WE'LL HAVE YOUNG PEOPLE ON COUNCIL WITHOUT ANY NEED TO OFFER THEM MONEY TO DO THEIR COMMUNITY SERVICE. TROUBLE WITH THAT IS THEY'LL IMMEDIATELY START FIRING STAFF AND CUTTING PROGRAMS AND DOING ALL THE THINGS YOU DON'T WANT. SO LET'S JUST REFLECT ON THAT AS WE CONTEMPLATE THE SHEER DISINGENUOUSNESS OF THIS PROPOSAL FOR COUNCIL PAY. THIS IS AN ARROGANT ACT OF ENTITLEMENT. GET YOUR HANDS OUT OF THE PUBLIC TILL YOU GREEDY PIGS TO HAVE A MO. YEAH, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. MAYOR. I, UH, WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO, UH, PASS, UH, CONSENT ITEM THREE H. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? OKAY, LET'S VOTE. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. OPPOSED? OKAY, JOE, YOU GOT THAT? ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. UH, NINE [9.b. AB 3311 Discussion/possible action for approval to pursue the FY26 Better Utilizing Investments to Leverage Development (BUILD) Grant from the U.S. Department of Transportation, including an application of approximately $2.3 million for the construction of SIM-11T – Coffee Pot Shared Use Path (SUP) and a second application of approximately $5.4 million for the construction of SIM-5D–Brewer/Ranger Road Roundabout, for a combined total grant request of approximately $7.7 million.] B AB 33 11. DISCUSSION. POSSIBLE ACTION FOR APPROVAL TO PURSUE THE FY 26 BETTER UTILIZE BETTER UTILIZING INVESTMENTS TO LEVERAGE DEVELOPMENT, OTHERWISE KNOWN AS BUILD GRANT FROM THE US DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, INCLUDING AN APPLICATION OF APPROXIMATELY 2.3 MILLION FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF SIM 11 T COFFEE POT SHARED USE PATH. AND A SECOND APPLICATION OF APPROXIMATELY 5.4 MILLION FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF SIM FIVE D BREWER RANGER ROAD ROUNDABOUT FOR COMBINED TOTAL GRANT REQUEST OF APPROXIMATELY 7.7 MILLION. SANDY, IS THIS YOUR ITEM? MY, UM, MINE AND ALSO JONATHAN, UM, WHO HOFFMAN, WHO IS OUR PROJECT MANAGER, ASSOCIATE ENGINEER. AND THEN KURT'S GONNA START US OFF. OKAY. THANK YOU. YES, YOU GUYS ARE LUCKY. TONIGHT YOU GET A TWOFER. SO THIS IS WHOLE, THE WHOLE BUILD GRANT IS, UM, A PART OF WHAT OUR GRANT ANALYZED, IDENTIFIED AS A, A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO APPLY FOR BOTH THESE PROJECTS AND AS COUNCIL DIRECTED FOR US TO GO AFTER EXTERNAL FUNDING. THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE FOR YOU TODAY TO ASK FOR YOUR PERMISSION TO APPLY FOR THESE TWO BILL GRANTS. WE PUT TOGETHER THIS POWERPOINT PRESENTATION JUST TO PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT MORE, UM, DETAILS AS YOU REQUESTED AND WE'D BE GLAD TO GO THROUGH THAT OR ANSWER QUESTIONS AS YOU HAVE. NOW WE'LL GO THROUGH THE POWERPOINT PRESENTATION. OKAY, SANDY, YOU CAN START US OFF. SO THIS IS AT THE INTERSECTION OF COFFEE POT AND GRASSHOPPER. UM, THIS IS WHAT WE HEAR ABOUT FROM A LOT OF THE RESIDENTS IS HOW UNSAFE IT IS TO WALK. UM, THERE'S SOME BLIND CORNERS AND SO THIS UM, COFFEE POT PROJECT SHARED USE PATH IS A PRIORITY. GO AHEAD AND GO TO THE NEXT. OOPS. SIDEWAYS. YEAH. OOPS. TOO MANY. THERE WE GO. SO, UM, JUST A QUICK RECAP. THIS IS PART OF THE GO PLAN. AGAIN, ANOTHER, UM, GREAT PHOTO OF RESIDENTS. IT HASN'T BEEN TOO, UM, DIFFICULT TO FIND PEOPLE THAT ARE WALKING ALONG THE EDGE. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THE CAR'S CROSSING OVER THE LINE TO MAKE SURE TO SAFE PASSAGE ON THIS CURVE. IT'S ALSO GOT A DRIVEWAY. THAT'S WHY I KEPT THE WHITE CAR UNDERNEATH. IT'S UM, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT LOCATION FOR A SHARED USE PATH AND PART OF THAT IS WHY WE'RE PURSUING THIS, UH, BUILD GRANT. GO AHEAD AND GO NEXT. SO JONATHAN AND, UM, HIS TEAM, HANUKAH AND JAMES, WE'VE DONE SIGNIFICANT OUTREACH ALREADY WHEN WE STARTED THIS PROJECT OVER A YEAR AGO. UM, AT THAT TIME [00:20:01] IT WAS THE 300 FOOT OUTREACH. SO, UM, WE'VE, THIS MAP ON THE LEFT SHOWS YOU ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WE'VE EITHER KNOCKED ON THEIR DOORS TALKED TO AND OR SENT LETTERS TO AND SHOWING THEM THE PROJECT. SO ON THE RIGHT WHAT WE'RE SHOWING IS THE CONNECTION FROM COFFEE POT RUNS FROM 89 A ALL THE WAY UP TO SANBORN. SO IT COMPLETES THAT LOOP. AND THEN WE WANT TO CONTINUE THIS PROJECT LOOPS AROUND A GUN FURY. AND THEN, UM, WE'VE REQUESTED FUNDS IN FY 27 TO CONTINUE THE YELLOW PORTION IN DESIGN SO THAT WE CAN CONNECT IT TO POSSE GROUNDS. SO THAT WHOLE LOOP WOULD BE WONDERFUL AND THAT'S WHAT WE HEAR, UM, A LOT OF COMMENTS THAT, UH, PEOPLE WOULD LIKE LOOPS THAT THEY COULD DO. SO JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT WE HAVE TALKED TO ARCO, WE'VE TALKED TO BASHES, THEY'RE VERY SUPPORTIVE. UM, A LOT OF THE BUSINESSES AND UM, A LOT OF THE, UH, RESIDENTS ALONG THE WAY ARE SUPPORTIVE. SO WE REALLY HAVEN'T GOTTEN MUCH PUSHBACK ON THIS ONE AT ALL. GO AHEAD AND GO NEXT. SO THIS IS JUST A QUICK PICTURE. UM, WE'D LIKE TO SUBMIT AN APPLICATION FOR THE GRANT AND THAT'S DUE IN FEBRUARY. OUR DESIGN IS 90% COMPLETE. WE'D LIKE TO HAVE A COUNCIL CHAMPION TO TEAM UP WITH AND WE'RE GONNA MEET WITH, UH, SOME OF OUR BIKE COMMUNITY BEFORE WE FINALIZE THOSE PLANS. IN SPRING OF THIS YEAR. WE ANTICIPATE, UH, THIS LAST YEAR A NOTIFICATION OCCURRED ABOUT IN AUGUST IF, UM, THIS IS HIGHLY COMPETITIVE 'CAUSE IT'S A ZERO, UM, LOCAL MATCH GRANT AND WE'RE ASKING FOR 2.2 MILLION. SO, UM, IF WE DON'T GET THIS GRANT, WE'VE REQUESTED FUNDS FOR CONSTRUCTION FOR FY 27. SO WHAT OUR PLAN IS, IF WE'RE NOT AWARDED THE GRANT, WE'D LIKE TO QUICKLY PULL THE TRIGGER AND PUT THIS PROJECT OUT TO BID. AND SO THAT WAY WE CAN GET GOING PROBABLY IN DECEMBER. SO, UM, THAT'S COFFEE POT. IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT, SANDY, HAVE WE DONE A BUILD GRANT BEFORE? NOT, I'M NOT AWARE. NOT TO OUR KNOWLEDGE. I DON'T BELIEVE SO EITHER. OH, SO WE DONE A TIGER GRANT. IT WAS TIGER. I THINK WE DID APPLY FOR A TIGER GRANT, BUT THAT WOULD'VE BEEN A LONG TIME AGO. THANK YOU. SO, BUT THIS PROJECT, I THINK WITH THE COMMUNITY WE'VE GOT A STRONG CHANCE AND WE HAD APPLIED FOR IT BEFORE AND GOT SOME REAL GOOD FEEDBACK. SO WE KNOW SOME OF THE AREAS WHERE WE WERE A LITTLE WEAK, BUT MAINLY THE FEEDBACK WE GOT WAS, WAS HIGHLY COMPETITIVE. SO YEAH, THE SIGN OF THE TIMES, UH, NATIONWIDE, I BELIEVE THERE WAS LIKE 200 BILLION, UH, IN APPLICANTS AND, UM, IN TOTAL FORM AND I THINK THERE WAS ONLY A HUNDRED, UM, BILLION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN ODD. SO IT'S PRETTY LOW ODDS. THE GREAT THING WITH THE BUILD GRANT, WHILE WE'RE GOING AFTER IT, IT'S ABOUT MULTIMODAL AND CONNECTING, UM, COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE ACCESS, CONNECTIVITY, MOBILITY ACCESS REALLY FITS IN WITH BOTH THESE PROJECTS. SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE GOING AFTER IT. DO THEY HAVE, UM, A PHILOSOPHY THAT THEY WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU SMALL COMMUNITIES ARE NOT OVERWHELMED BY THE LARGER COMMUNITIES SUPPLY? YES. YEAH. IT'S MORE TAILORED FOR NATIONWIDE, FOR, UH, INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS IN SMALL RURAL COMMUNITIES OR ECONOMIC DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES HAVE A MUCH HIGHER LIKELIHOOD OF BEING AWARDED BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GETTING FUNDING EITHER THROUGH STATE, LOCAL, GOVERNMENT AND ALL THAT STUFF. SO IT IT, IT FITS OUR, UM, METRICS OF APPLYING FOR GRANT FUNDING. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM COUNCIL? OKAY. ALRIGHT, WE'LL GO TO THE NEXT ONE. THANK YOU SANDY AND JONATHAN. UM, THIS IS THE RANGER BREWERY INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS AND THE BUILD GRANT APPLICATION. THIS COMES BEFORE YOU 'CAUSE IT'S THE SAME THING AS THE BUILD. THIS IS ONE OF OUR BIG CONNECTION POINTS AND I WROTE UP A LITTLE NARRATIVE. I'D LIKE TO READ THAT TO YOU GUYS ABOUT WHY WE'RE HERE. A SUMMARY OF IT. WE HAVEN'T DONE A SIM UPDATE SINCE SEPTEMBER, SO THIS WILL BRING UP COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO HAVEN'T BEEN ATTENDING THOSE AS WELL. SO DO YOU WANT ME TO QUICKLY GO OVER A HIGH LEVEL HISTORY REAL QUICK? SURE, SURE. AND I COULD, I CAN FORMULATE ON THIS AND OKAY. YEAH. SO KURT WILL GO INTO MORE DETAIL, BUT I JUST WANTED TO MENTION THAT THIS WAS ONE OF THE PROJECTS THIS ORIGINALLY CONCEIVED OUT OF THE TRANSPORTATION MASTER PLAN IN 2018. SO GOING BACK TO 2018, WE'VE HAD A LARGE NUMBER OF PRO, UH, OF SOME UPDATES OF SPECIFIC COUNCIL MEETINGS WHERE WE'VE GONE OVER THE DESIGN DESIGN CLOSER. I CAN'T HEAR YOU. CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? YEAH. IS IT WORKING? [00:25:01] IT'S WORKING, BUT WE'RE NOT HEARING YOU. SOMEHOW MY VOICE ISN'T WANTING TO GO INTO THE MICROPHONE, I GUESS. SO I JUST WANTED TO QUICKLY SAY, WE'VE HAD A NUMBER OF MEETINGS, SOME UPDATES THAT HAVE COVERED THIS PROJECT, SPECIFICALLY THE DESIGN AS WELL AS THE VIDEO THAT WE DID THAT PROVIDES A RENDERING OF THE WHOLE CORRIDOR IN THIS AREA AND HOW ALL THE SIM PROJECTS WORK TOGETHER. UH, WE HAVE PREVIOUSLY, UH, PURSUED OTHER GRANT FUNDING THROUGH THE CONGRESSIONALLY DIRECT SPENDING PROGRAM. UNFORTUNATELY, WE WERE NOT SUCCESSFUL WITH THAT APPLICATION. SO THIS IS, UH, ADDITIONAL GRANT FUNDING THAT WE'RE CONTINUING TO PURSUE. AND WITH THAT, I'LL LET KURT GO INTO THE DETAIL. YEAH, I'LL HAVE SOME DETAILS. I'LL TRY TO SPEAK QUICKLY. UM, BUT IF THERE'S A QUESTION PLEASE STOP ME. I'LL BE GLAD TO ANSWER. UM, THE SIM FIVE D ADVANCES THE SEDONA TRANSPORTATION. WAIT, COULD I ASK A QUESTION THAT IS NOT DETAIL RELATED JUST BEFOREHAND? SURE, YES, ABSOLUTELY. DOES THE APPLICATION PROCESS, UM, ALLOW FOR LETTERS OF SUPPORT? AND IF SO, ARE WE PURSUING THOSE? YES, AND THOSE ARE ACTUALLY DETAILS THAT I'M NOT FAMILIAR , SO I'LL LIKE TO YEAH, EACH GRANT APPLICATION HAS NUMEROUS LETTERS OF SUPPORT AND WE SPENT A, A GREAT GET ALL THE TIME GETTING, UM, THE, THE MAYOR, UM, CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE, CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, UH, US FOREST SERVICE, ALL THE ASSOCIATED, UM, BUSINESSES IN ORDER TO GIVE US LETTERS OF SUPPORT FOR THESE GRANTS. AOC, YEAH, AOC CAN BE ONE AND SO ON. UM, THAT'S MORE FOR THE SIM FIVE E THAT WE'RE GOING AFTER THE, UM, NACO REGIONAL PROJECT PRIORITIES LIST. UM, AND THAT'S WHY WE WENT AND MET WITH THE STATE TRANSPORTATION BOARD, WHICH IS THE SISTER ROUNDABOUT. I'LL SHOW THAT IN FURTHER SLIDES AS WELL, HOW IT'S ALL CONNECTED. THANKS. THIS IS KIND OF JUST THE SUMMARY OVERVIEW, UM, BUT HOPEFULLY ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS AND GET YOU GUYS ALL UP TO SPEED. UH, SEDONA TRANSPORTATION MASTER PLAN BY IMPROVING THE CONGESTION SAFETY NETWORK CONNECTIVITY ALONG STATE ROUTE 89 A. THE PROJECT INCLUDES CONSTRUCTION OF THE ROUNDABOUT AT THE RANGER ROAD BREWER ROAD INTERSECTION AND PORTIONS OF THE RANGER ROAD EXTENSION TO STATE ROUTE 89 A AT THE FUTURE OF THE FOREST ROAD EXTENSION ROUNDABOUT. THAT'S THE SIM FIVE E, THE RANGER FOREST ROUNDABOUT CONNECTION. UM, WHERE WAS I? THE, UH, IN PORTIONS OF THE RANGER ROAD EXTENSION STAY ROUTE 89 AT THE FUTURE FOREST ROAD EXTENSION ROUNDABOUT, PROVIDING AN ADDITIONAL ACCESS POINT TO THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM. SEDONA IN MOTION FIVE, A PORTAL TO BREWER DRIVEWAY EXIT COMPONENT WILL ALSO PRO, UH, IMPROVE NETWORK CONNECTIVITY AND MOBILITY OF THE STATE. ROUTE 1 79 CORRIDOR FROM THE Y ROUNDABOUT TO LEY ROUNDABOUT. TRAFFIC MODELING AND OPERATION ANALYSIS CONFIRMED THAT THE ROUNDABOUT IS THE MOST EFFICIENT, SAFEST CONFIGURATION FOR THE EXISTING INTERSECTION. CURRENTLY IT'S A THREE-WAY STOP T INTERSECTION, WHICH OPERATES BEYOND ITS INTENDED CAPACITY DUE TO TRAFFIC REDISTRIBUTION FROM STATE ROUTE 1 79. IMPROVEMENTS WITHOUT INTERVENTION PROJECT TR PROJECTED TRAFFIC GROWTH WILL CONTINUE TO DEGRADE. OPERATIONS INCREASED SAFETY RISK AND COMPOUND CONGESTION AT ADJACENT INTERSECTIONS. THE BREWER ROAD RESIDENTS AND EMERGENCY SERVICES HAVE BOTH EXPRESSED CONCERNS ABOUT EMERGENCY ACCESS AND EVACUATION. UM, WITHOUT HAVING, UH, MOVING FORWARD WITH THIS PROJECT, THE FINAL DESIGN AND ALTERNATIVES HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE DESIGN CONCEPT REPORT. CONSIDERING SAFETY OPERATIONS, COST, PUBLIC INPUT, ENVIRONMENTAL AND COMMUNITY IMPACTS, AND LONG-TERM MAINTENANCE COUNCIL HAS DIRECTED THAT CONSTRUCTION BE SUPPORTED THROUGH EXTERNAL GRANT FUNDING OPPORTUNITIES. UPON AWARD, THE PROJECT WOULD ADVANCE THE CONSTRUCTION PHASE TO A FULLY CONSTRUCTION READY IN 2026. THERE WAS ONE REMAINING RIGHT OF WAY EASEMENT ACQUISITION WITHIN THIS PROJECT FOOTPRINT. THE SHOVEL READY CONSTRUCTION PROJECT DIRECTLY SUPPORTS THE TRA UH, TRANSPORTATION MASTER PLAN AND SEDONA IN MOTIONS, UH, GOALS BY IMPROVING INTERSECTION EFFICIENCY AND ENHANCING EAST WEST CONNECTIVITY, ACCOMMODATING FUTURE TRANSIT OPPORTUNITIES AND HELPING ALLEVIATE RESIDENT CONCERNS RELATING TO INCREASED VISITOR TRAFFIC IMPACTS ON LOCAL ROADWAYS AND EMERGENCY ACCESS AND EVACUATION, AS I MENTIONED. UH, SO THE PRESENTATIONS THAT WE'VE PURPORTED THAT, THAT DETAIL THAT ANDY MENTIONED, WE'VE HAD 14 PRESENTATIONS FROM 2018 TO 2021, UH, THAT WERE BASICALLY THE TRANSPORTATION MASTER [00:30:01] PLAN AS STRATEGY FIVE OF THE 12 TOTAL STRATEGIES. SO IT WAS PRETTY MUCH A HIGH VIEW UP TO 2021. IN APRIL 12TH, 2022. WE HAD A COMMUNITY MEETING IN PUBLIC OUTREACH AT THE 22 2 1 BREWER ROAD FROM FIVE TO SEVEN, AND THERE WAS QUITE A BIT OF ATTENDEES THERE. UM, WE HAVE A WHOLE SIGN IN LIST I COULD SHARE. AND THEN THE SIM UPDATES AND DETAILS. UH, FOR THE SIM FIVE D WE HAD 11 PRESENTATIONS FROM 2022 TO 2025 DESCRIBING PROJECT DESIGN, REPORT AND DESIGN DETAILS. ON SEPTEMBER 23RD, 2025, THE AGENDA BILL, 31 35 WAS THE LATEST SIM UPDATE. THE SLIDE 27 OF THAT UPDATE PROVIDED THE MILESTONES. I'LL JUST, I WON'T EVEN COVER THAT. THAT GOES INTO DETAIL OF FROM OPEN HOUSE DESIGN CONCEPT, THE DESIGN, THE DRAINAGE, AND THE NEXT STEPS. IN THAT REPORT, WE SAID WE WERE GONNA APPLY FOR THE CONDITIONALLY DIRECTED SPENDING REQUEST AND ASKED THE OPPORTUNITY FOR GRANT OPPORTUNITIES OR SELF-FUND. UM, WE'D ALSO TALKED ABOUT ADJACENT LAND ACQUISITION TRADE AND VALUE ENGINEERING BENEFITS. ON NOVEMBER 9TH, UH, BACK IN 2023, I ALSO MET WITH, UH, PATTY POP. UH, SHE'S A CITIZEN ACADEMY MEMBER AND A RESIDENT OF BREWER WHO BROUGHT ALONG OTHER RESIDENTS, UH, REMEMBER ABOUT NINE WHO WE WENT OVER THE PROJECT IN DETAIL. AND THEN FINALLY, UH, AS WE BROUGHT AGAIN, UH, TO THE, THE COUNCIL SINCE SEPTEMBER, 2024, WE'VE HAD EXTENSIVE OUTREACH OF 14 RESIDENTS OF THE SEDONA VISTA DRIVE REGARDING THE PARCEL CLIP PURCHASE TO AMEND THE CCNRS PRESENTED IN AGENDA BILL 31 28. THAT WAS JUST LAST JANUARY 13TH. AND WE BROUGHT UP ALL THE COST SAVINGS THAT WE'RE DOING FOR THE CITY ON PURCHASING THESE PARCELS. SO THE ADJACENT LANDOWNERS HAVE FULL, UM, KNOWLEDGE OF THIS PROJECT. I'VE WORKED WITH THE ADJACENT BUSINESSES, I BELIEVE THERE'S SOME TODAY, PJ MILANIS HERE AND SO ON, ABOUT ALL WHAT WE'VE TRIED TO DO TO, UM, ACCOMMODATE ADJACENT BUSINESSES TO MAKE THIS, UH, UH, A WORTHY PROJECT AND MEETING OUR SEDONA MASTER TRANSPORTATION PLAN, ANTHONY COULD SAY. SO, UM, I THINK KURT, I THINK YOU WERE THINKING ABOUT COVERING SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT WE WORKED THROUGH WITH THE PROJECT, TRYING TO ACCOMMODATE THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES THAT COULD BE IMPACTED BY THE PROJECT AND THINGS THAT WE'VE DONE. YEAH, I, I'LL, I'LL, UH, TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT JUST BEFORE YOU HAVE YOUR QUESTIONS. SO THIS PROJECT DOES KIND OF DEFINE THAT WE ADDED, UH, PART OF THE CONCERNS OF THE ADJACENT BUSINESSES. WE ADDED A SHARED USE PATH THAT WILL GO FROM THE BREWER, UH, ROUNDABOUT, UH, SOUTH, ALL THE WAY INTO, UM, THE RESIDENCE. UH, I MEAN THE BUSINESSES HERE. UM, WE'VE ACTUALLY WORKED TO MAKE THIS A SAFE INGRESS AND EGRESS FOR THE OWNERS OF THIS BUSINESS AT THE CORNER WHERE I'M HIGHLIGHTING. SO WE ACTUALLY HA INCLUDED A DRIVEWAY EXIT SO VEHICLES CAN INGRESS AND EGRESS. THE ADJACENT NORTHERN PROPERTY ALLOWED US TO USE THE ADJACENT RIGHT OF WAY FOR THE EXIT OF THAT BUSINESS. UM, IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE THAT. AND THESE BUSINESS HERE WE'RE EXPERIENCING, UM, NUISANCE FLOODING. SO WE'VE INSTALLED CURBING AND GUTTER WITH IMPROVED STORM DRAIN TO ALLEVIATE AND MITIGATE SOME OF THAT LOCAL NUISANCE FLOODING. THESE PROPERTIES ARE IN A KNOWN FEMA FLOODPLAIN. SO WE'VE, UM, UH, INCREASED OUR PROJECT TO ACCOMMODATE THAT AND MEET THOSE CONCERNS. KURT, I MAY, IF I MAY, KURT, WHERE DOES THAT SHARED USE PATH? TERMINATE ON THE SOUTH END? IT GOES RIGHT TO THE, UM, ADJACENT PROPERTY LINE, AS YOU CAN SEE MY CURSOR HERE. AND THEN IT TRANSITIONS RIGHT AT THIS DRIVEWAY INTO A FIVE FOOT SIDEWALK THAT CONNECTS TO THE CROSSWALK, UM, ALONG RANGER WAR ROAD IN ORDER TO ACROSS TO A FUTURE SHARED USE PATH ON THE SOUTH SIDE. SO WE, IN ORDER TO GET THE DRIVEWAY, MEET THE FOOTPRINT OF THE DESIGN, WE HAD TO UNFORTUNATELY DECREASE THE SIZE OF THAT 10 FOOT, UM, WITH SHARED USE PATH TO A FIVE FOOT SIDEWALK. DOES, DOES THE COUNCIL NEED SOME ORIENTATION ON THIS MAP? CANNOT HEAR YOU AT ALL, ANDY. REALLY? I'M LEANING WAY FORWARD. , HOW ABOUT THIS ONE? YEAH, WITH THE COUNCIL, LIKE TO HAVE A, SOME ORIENTATION ON WHERE THIS, WHERE THIS MAP IS SITUATED AND THAT SORT OF THING. LEMME GO THROUGH THE MORE SLIDES HERE BECAUSE THAT'S MORE, UM, AS MORE OF [00:35:01] AN OVERVIEW. SO I'LL, I'LL GO THROUGH THE NEXT SLIDE AND THEN I CAN ALWAYS COME BACK. SO THIS IS, YOU'VE SEEN IT BEFORE THE RENDERING WHERE SHOWS WHERE OUR SIM FIVE D THE BREWER RANGER ROUNDABOUT, THAT'S BREWER ROAD, THAT'S RANGER. WHAT I'M LOOKING OVER HERE IS OUR PROPOSED, UH, PORTAL BREWER, UM, EXIT. AND THEN THIS IS WHERE THE RANGER EXTENSION IS ONE, THIS IS THE CONCEPT OF THE HUB THAT WE'RE ON HOLD NOW TILL 2028 OR FUTURE. AND THEN THIS IS THE SIM FIVE E, THE ROUNDABOUT FOR FOREST ROAD RANGER EXTENSION ON ADOT RIGHT OF WAY THAT WE'VE HAD FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS, UM, GOING AFTER THE NACOG REGIONAL PROJECT PRIORITIES LIST. AND WE'RE ALL IN ON WORKING WITH ADOT TO HOPEFULLY GET FUNDING FOR THIS THIS YEAR. UM, I'LL GO TO THE NEXT AS WELL. THIS SANDY PUT TOGETHER JUST AS ANOTHER POINT JUST TO KIND OF SHOW WHERE THE, THE MAP KIND OF OVERLAYS THE FOOTPRINT FOR THIS PROJECT. JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME CONCEPT, THIS GOOGLE MAP GIVES A BETTER IDEA WHERE THE IT'S LOCATED. AND THEN OF COURSE THIS IS KIND OF THE HISTORY MAP FOR CHARLOTTE. I HOPE YOU'VE SEEN THIS BEFORE. IT'S ON OUR WEBSITE. WE ACTUALLY HAVE, UM, TWO UM, SIM VIDEOS. UM, IF YOU'VE SEEN THAT, UM, BEFORE, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND GOING TO OUR WEBSITE. THIS IS JUST SHOWS THE SEQUENCE OF THE PHASING OF WHERE THEY ARE AND ANDY CAN SPEAK MORE TO, UM, SIM OVERALL AND HOW SIM IS SENT ONE PROJECT IN ITSELF. BUT THEY'RE ALL INTERCONNECTED TO IMPROVE, UH, CONNECTIVITY MOBILITY FOR CITYWIDE. SO, AND THIS PROJECT RIGHT HERE IS IDENTIFIED AS SEVEN ON THE LIST, A RANGER BREWER, AND THAT IS CONNECTED WITH THE PORTAL BREWER CONNECTION. IT'S NOT ME, AND 10, THIS IS THAT RANGER AUXILIARY LINE. SO AS WE GET THESE TWO ROUNDABOUTS, WE WOULD THEN, UH, MOVE COME TO COUNCIL WITH YOUR DIRECTION TO GET THESE PROJECTS, WHICH ALSO INCLUDES THE, UH, LEFT HAND TURN SIGNAL FOR PREEMPTION THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE AS PART OF OUR PART 12, WHICH IS THE RIGHT ROUNDABOUT ADAPTIVE SIGNALS. SO THIS ALL KIND OF FITS IN, IN HOW WE'RE TRANSITIONING OUT OF LARGE INFRASTRUCTURE INTO, UM, INTELLIGENT TRAFFIC SYSTEMS AND GOT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT YOU TOO. BUT I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY OTHER PRESENTATION ON THIS TOPIC AT THIS POINT. NO SIR. WE HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FROM COUNCIL. YEP. LET'S START WITH KATHY AND THEN THANK YOU. DEREK, CAN YOU GO BACK A COUPLE OF SLIDES? THERE WAS SORT OF AN AERIAL VIEW ONE. YEP. RIGHT THERE. UM, YOU SAID IF USING THIS MAP, 'CAUSE I THINK YOU CAN ORIENT BETTER, UH, YOU SAID THERE'S ONE REIS ONE, UH, YOU STILL NEED ONE ADDITIONAL EASEMENT. IS THAT CORRECT? CAN YOU SHOW US WHERE ON THIS MAP THAT IS, PLEASE? YES, IT'S THE, UM, IT'S NOT REALLY COMING UP AS ONE OF THE ISSUES. IT'S UM, RIGHT HERE. IT'S THE E-BIKE RENTAL STORE. MM-HMM . THE OWNER WHO HAS A BUNCH OF SHORT TERM RENTALS AND THE E-BIKE STORE. WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THEM AND IT'S ABOUT PARKING. SO WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO WORK WITH THEM TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL, UH, UM, PARKING, PUBLIC PARKING AS PART OF THIS, AS PART OF THE, UH, BUSINESS HERE AT THE CORNER TO TO, TO, UM, ACCOMMODATE THEIR CONCERNS FOR THE PROJECT OF TAKING AWAY PARKING. WE'RE WORKING WITHIN OUR RIGHT OF WAY, BUT WE'RE LOOKING AT, UH, AMENDING THE DESIGN TO ADD MORE PUBLIC PARKING TO MEET THEIR NEEDS. OKAY. AND ANOTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS, UM, AS YOU GO OUT RANGER TO 1 79, CAN YOU PLEASE FORECAST WHAT YOU THINK THE IMPACT WILL BE? BECAUSE WHEN I TAKE THAT ROAD TO GO TO 1 79, SO BYPASSING THE, THE Y CIRCLE, UM, THE BACKUP HAPPENS AT THE STOP SIGN THERE, BUT IT'S ACTUALLY NOT BECAUSE OF THAT STOP SIGN, IT'S BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN'T EXIT FROM RANGER ONTO 1 79. DO YOU ENVISION THAT THIS IS GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON THAT CHOKE 0.1 WAY OR THE OTHER? ALL OF IT WILL. IT'S ALL, AS ANDY WAS MENTIONING, IF THEY'RE ALL INTERCONNECTED. SO THE THEORY WOULD BE THEN, UM, WE WOULD HAVE MORE STORAGE CAPACITY. SO IF YOU'RE COMING IN FROM, UM, WESTBOUND 89 A, YOU WOULD TAKE THE RANGER EXTENSION AND CROSSING HERE. THE WHOLE POINT IS GETTING PEOPLE COMPLYING TO THE ROUNDABOUT NEEDS THAT YOU CAN'T ENTER THE ROUNDABOUT UNLESS IT'S CLEARED. SO IT, UH, ROUNDABOUTS COMPARED [00:40:01] TO STOP SIGNS COMPARED TO TRAFFIC SIGNALS ARE FAR MORE EFFICIENT IN MOVING TRAFFIC, ESPECIALLY AT PEAK VOLUME TIMES. BUT IT'S ONLY AS GOOD AS THE USERS USING IT. SO, SO IF, IF YOU CAN HEAR ME, UH, I'LL JUMP IN HERE AS WELL. ANOTHER PROJECT THAT WE HAVE COMING UP AT THE INTERSECTION OF RANGER AND 1 79 WILL INCLUDE INSTALLING A NEW AUXILIARY LANE, WHICH WOULD BE AN EXTENSION OF THE RIGHT TURN LANE INTO PORTAL UP TO RANGER ROAD. SO THAT ALLOWS SORT OF A SLIP LANE ONTO 1 79 TO MAKE THAT TRANSITION FROM RANGER ONTO 1 79 MORE EFFICIENT. ARE YOU HEARING ME OKAY? OKAY, GOOD. A BIG PART OF THIS TOO IS MULTIMODAL, WE'RE ADDING MORE SHARED USE PATHS. SO AS THE PARKING GARAGE IS COMING ONLINE, THE THE HOPE IS THAT PEOPLE WILL THEN BE WALKING TO, UM, UPTOWN TO THIS CORRIDOR. WE'RE TRYING TO PROVIDE MULTIPLE ACCESS FOR PEOPLE TO WALK RIDE BIKES SO THERE'D BE LESS TRAFFIC AND CUES. SO YES, I UNDERSTAND THAT THESE ALL INTERCONNECT TO GIVE SOME, YOU KNOW, RELIEF OF PERCENTAGE HERE OR PERCENTAGE THERE, YOU KNOW, BUT I AM REALLY FOCUSED ON, I I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW HAVING A ROUNDABOUT THERE AT THE, AT RANGER BREWER HAS AN IMPACT ON RANGER TO 1 79. EVEN WITH A SLIP LANE THERE, THERE'S NOWHERE ELSE. THE WHOLE THING IS A SLIP LANE BECAUSE THERE'S NOWHERE TO GO. YOU'RE NOT, YOU CAN'T MAKE A LEFT, YOU CAN'T GO STRAIGHT. SO YOU ARE ONLY MAKING A RIGHT. SO PUTTING AN ADDITIONAL LANE IN THERE FOR CAPACITY. I, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE IMPACT ON THAT INTERSECTION. RIGHT. SO WHAT THIS PROJECT WILL DO IS HELP THIS INTERSECTION AT BREWER RANGER OPERATE MORE EFFICIENTLY. I THINK THE CONCERN, IF I CAN RESTATE IS THAT MAKING THAT MORE EFFICIENT CAN ADD MORE TO THE INTERSECTION DOWNSTREAM AT RANGER 1 79. THAT OTHER PROJECT THAT WE'RE WORKING ON WHICH NEEDS TO WORK IN TANDEM WITH THIS PROJECT WILL IMPROVE THAT MOVEMENT AND LEVEL OF SERVICE AT RANGER 1 79 MAKING THAT TRANSITION TO SOUTHBOUND MORE EFFICIENT ALSO. SO THESE WORK TOGETHER IS REALLY THE CONCEPT. THE TRANSPORTATION MASTER PLAN HAS STRATEGY, STRATEGY FIVE AND STRATEGY FOUR. STRATEGY FOUR FOCUSES ON THE 1 79 CORRIDOR THAT WE'RE ADDRESSING WITH OUR ADAPTIVE SIGNALS AT THE Y ROUNDABOUT. ANDY MENTIONED THE SLIP LANE AT THE RANGER 1 79. ALSO WITHIN THAT STRATEGY WE HAVEN'T BROUGHT TO YOU TODAY BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T GOT THERE YET, IS ANOTHER ONE AT SCHLEY HILL ROUND, UH, ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENTS. SO ALL THOSE ARE ALL CONNECTED, UH, COUNSELOR KINSELLA IN ORDER TO ADDRESS THAT. YOUR CONCERN THAT YOU SEE THERE, ONE REALLY ISN'T THE ONE THAT'S GONNA SOLVE ALL THE PROBLEMS, BUT ALL CONNECTED WE'RE REMOVING THAT FRICTION THAT WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT. IF I COULDN'T, UH, WELL DEREK WAS IS THAT A TAG ON TO THIS? YES, IT WAS REALLY. GO AHEAD. I WAS JUST GONNA ADD ON TO CA I HEAR COUNSELOR ELLA'S CONCERN HERE THAT IF THAT SLIP LANE AND WHAT WOULD BE A ZIP EMERGE ISN'T WORKING REALLY WELL ON 1 79 RANGER COULD BACK UP ENOUGH TO BLOCK TO CLOG UP THE NEW ROUNDABOUT JUST LIKE IT DOES AT THE Y AND WITH THE Y WE'RE DOING A SIGNALIZE ROUNDABOUT. IS THERE SOME OPTION THAT YOU'VE GOT IN YOUR POCKET IN THE FUTURE THAT IF THAT BACKUP WHICH HAPPENS NOW, IT BACKS UP ALL THE WAY TO RANGER AND AND UP BREWER? MM-HMM . YES. SO IF THAT ROUNDABOUT GETS BACKED UP, IS THERE A OPTION FOR HELPING THE FLOW THERE? YES. ADAPTIVE SIGNALS IS A TOOL THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO IMPLEMENT RIGHT NOW ON THE FOREST RANGER. UM, 89 A FIVE E ROUNDABOUT. WE WOULD ALSO LOOK TO POTENTIALLY IMPLEMENT THAT AT THE FIVE D RANGER BREWER ROUNDABOUT. AND IT'S ALREADY PART OF WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE SLIP LANE FROM RANGER TO 1 79. THAT PROJECT LOOKS AT UH, ADDING ADAPTIVE SIGNALS AS WELL AND THAT'S REALLY FOCUSED AT UM, THE MAJORITY OF THAT FOCUS IS UH, IMPROVING EFFICIENCY BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT EMERGENCY ACCESS AND THAT SORT OF THING. YEAH. JUST AS A REMINDER, THE PREEMPTION IS FOR TRANSIT AND ALSO EMERGENCY VEHICLES FOR ALL THOSE INTERSECTIONS. COULD YOU SAY [00:45:01] THAT AGAIN PLEASE? PREEMPTION IS PART OF THE ADAPTED SIGNALING THAT WE'RE WORKING ALSO WITH A O THROUGH THE WHOLE 89 CORRIDOR. I HAD ONE LAST ONE. GO AHEAD. MY LAST QUESTION IS THE UM, I BELIEVE ON THE, THERE ARE TWO SEPARATE APPLICATIONS FOR COFFEE POT SHARED USE PATH AND FOR ARRANGER AND ON THE COFFEE POT. I THINK JUST WANNA REITERATE, YOU SAID THAT THERE WOULD BE A 0% LOCAL MATCH REQUIRED. WHAT ABOUT ON THE UM, BREWER RANGER? WOULD THERE BE A ZERO LOCAL MATCH REQUIRED OR WOULD THERE BE A LOCAL MATCH? NO, WE PROPOSED IN THE FISCAL YEAR 27 BUDGET MM-HMM SPECIFICALLY THAT TO HAVE A 33% MATCH. AND THE WHOLE REASON IS TO PROVIDE THAT LEVEL OF ASSURANCE. WE'RE NOT AS CONFIDENT AS THE COFFEE POT OF GETTING FOR THIS BILL GRANT BECAUSE IT'S A LARGER PROJECT, UM, BASED ON THE ECONOMICS OF SEDONA. SO WE FELT THIS WOULD BE A BEST OPTION. WE HAVE TO RAISE OUR ODDS OF GETTING, UM, AWARDED. OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU DEREK, WHAT IMPACT DOES THIS ROUNDABOUT HAVE ON THE PARKING AT THE HEART STORE PROPERTY? UH, WE ACTUALLY INCORPORATED THIS DESIGN, UH, COUNSELOR TO ADDRESS THEIR PARKING AND IMPROVE IT. OKAY, SO WE'RE NOT TAKING PARKING SPACES? NO SIR. AND WE'RE ACTUALLY WORKING WITH, UM, OTHER ADJACENT TO ADD PUBLIC PARKING ADJACENT TO THEIR STORE AND ALSO AT FOR THE E-BIKES TO ACCOMMODATE THEM. OKAY. WILL THAT BE ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE STREET OR WHERE'S THE UM, IT'LL BE BOTH. BOTH, BUT THE BIGGER, UM, ACCESS THAT WE FEEL IS GONNA BE ADVANTAGEOUS TO THE STORE IS THE SHARED USE PATH. THE UM, WALKWAY, ESPECIALLY WITH THE PARKING GARAGE WITH RANGER PARK COMING ONLINE, WE FEEL THEY'RE GONNA HAVE A MUCH HIGHER LIKELIHOOD OF VISITATION AND POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS. OKAY, THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. I'M MELISSA. THIS IS REALLY SORT OF AN ADD-ON OVER TO THOSE, THOSE QUESTIONS AND UM, MAYBE IT'S JUST A CONCERN I SHOULD STATE IT AS, BUT A LOT OF TIMES WHEN THE PEOPLE ARE, BY THE WAY, GOOGLE NOW TELLS YOU IF THE WHY IS BUSY TO TAKE THAT LITTLE JOG AND THAT MEANS IT'S NOT REALLY FOR LOCALS ANYMORE. LIKE WE USED TO DO THAT ALL THE TIME, RIGHT? WE USED TO TAKE THAT LITTLE JOG, BUT NOW IT'S KIND OF BEING ADVERTISED BY GOOGLE TO GO THAT WAY. UM, AND THAT BRINGS TO ME, BESIDES ALL THE, THE, THE POINTS THAT WERE MADE, WHICH ARE VALID ONES, THAT BACKING UP A ROUNDABOUT IS AS EASY AS BACKING UP A STOP SIGN. UM, I AM A LITTLE STILL CONCERNED ABOUT THE FACT THAT THAT SLIP LANE IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF WHERE YOU TURN RIGHT TO GO INTO THE FIRST TILLOCK PARKING AREA. AND A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE ARE COMING OFF THERE AND THEY'RE TURNING TO GO INTO THE AL PARKING. UM, MY CONCERN IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING STRAIGHT ARE ALSO PLANNING ON TURNING INTO THE TO LOCK PARKING AND THAT MEANS THAT SLIP LANE IS NOW A CONGESTED SUICIDE LANE BASICALLY, WHERE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE VEHICLES WHO ARE BOTH TRYING TO GET INTO THAT LANE IN ORDER TO TURN INTO TO LOCK. SO, UM, I, I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THAT. UM, I UNDERSTAND ADAPTIVE CONTROLS LIKE AT THE ROUNDABOUT MIGHT HELP THAT OR EASE THAT SOME, BUT I THINK THAT WE NEED TO BE VERY AWARE OF WHAT THE BEHAVIORS ARE GOING INTO THE TO LOCK PARKING AREA FROM THERE AND NOT CREATE A SITUATION WHERE WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT. UM, PLUS WE SEE A LOT OF BIKES SORT OF RIDING RIGHT ACROSS THAT AREA AND NOW YOU HAVE A SLIP LANE, UM, THAT THEY MAY SEE MORE OF AS THEIR BIKE LANE BEFORE IT TURNS INTO A TURN LANE. SO I REALLY THINK WE NEED TO BE VERY CAREFUL AND VERY THOUGHTFUL AROUND HOW CLOSE THAT TO LOCK TURN IS TO WHERE WE'RE, WE'RE PUTTING THIS ROUNDABOUT. AND, AND I ALSO AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUES THAT I THINK BACKING UP THE ROUNDABOUT IS GONNA BE WORSE THAN BACKING UP THE STOP SIGNS 'CAUSE PEOPLE WILL GO INTO THE ROUNDABOUTS AND THEN STOP NO MATTER WHAT WE TELL THEM IS THE WAY TO USE IT PROPERLY. SO, UM, I JUST WANTED TO EXPRESS THOSE CONCERNS AND, AND HOPE THAT YOU'RE VERY THOUGHTFUL AROUND THOSE TWO, UH, THOSE TWO PO PINCH POINTS DULY NOTED ON THAT'S PORTAL LANE THAT YOU'RE REFERENCING AS A TALK. YES. I HAVE A QUESTION ALSO ABOUT WHERE IN THE SEQUENCING IS THIS PROJECT WITH THE ELIMINATION OF THE RANGER, UH, ROUNDABOUT OR BREWER ROUNDABOUT BECAUSE IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT NOW TO GET INTO, IF YOU'RE [00:50:01] COMING FROM 1 79 AND USING THE SHORTCUT TO GET INTO THE ROUNDABOUT AT BREWER AND IF WE ADD MORE, IT'S GONNA BE EVEN WORSE. SO WE WHEN WILL, YOU KNOW, WHEN WILL THIS HAPPEN VERSUS WHEN WE WILL ELIMINATE THAT ROUNDABOUT AND EASE THAT CONGESTION? GOOD QUESTION. GOOD QUESTION. THANK YOU THAT THAT PROJECT IS PART OF IDENTIFIED FOR THE SIM FIVE E, THE STATE ROUTE 89, A FOREST ROAD RANGER EXTENSION. IF YOU LOOK AT THE CURSOR, I'M IDENTIFYING THAT THAT'S WHEN THAT ROUNDABOUT WOULD BE ADJUSTED. IT'S IN CONJUNCTION WITH THAT OTHER PROJECT WITH THE 89 A, IF WE DID THIS PROJECT BY ITSELF, IT WOULD STAY RIGHT? RIGHT. SO WE WOULD ONLY WORK ON THIS IF WE GOT FUNDING AND SO ON. OUR GREATEST HOPE AND DESIRE IS THAT WE COULD DO BOTH THESE PROJECTS AT THE SAME TIME. THAT WAY WE WOULD REALIZE THE BENEFIT OF ALL THESE AND I HEAR ALL YOUR CONCERNS AND SO ON. BUT OUR TRAFFIC ANALYSIS AND STUDIES SHOW, AS WE'VE SEEN WITH RANGER EXTENSION, IT'S ALREADY HELPING AND WORKING THAT IT'S GONNA PROVIDE THOSE LEVEL OF EFFICIENCIES THAT YOU'RE NOT GONNA SEE THOSE CURRENT QUEUES AS YOU DO NOW. IT'S ALL PEAK TRAFFIC. THE ALL THE PROJECTIONS ARE SHOWING THAT WITH FUTURE GROWTH, AS I STATED, IT'S GONNA GET WORSE BEFORE IT GETS BETTER AND WE HAVE TO DO THESE PROJECTS IF WE REALLY WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. SO I WANTED TO ASK, ARE ARE THE OWNERS OF THE HEART STORE HERE? I BELIEVE SO, YES. PJ DID YOU PUT A CARD IN TO TALK? 'CAUSE I DON'T HAVE IT 'CAUSE I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM THEM. YEAH, THAT'S FINE. WE'VE MET WITH PJ AND SANDY FROM THE UH, CONCEPT SINCE I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE PROJECT ON BOARD. I'M GLAD HE'S HERE. UM, WE'VE ADDRESSED HIS CONVENTS AND WE'RE OPEN TO ALL THE IMPROVEMENTS AND I THINK WE'VE BEEN VERY ACCOMMODATING. I WANT TO REMIND COUNCIL, THE, UH, THE WHOLE FRONT OF THE BUILDING IS IN CITY RIGHT AWAY. SO WE'VE MADE THOSE ACCOMMODATIONS TO SAY ANYTHING THAT WE DO DISTURB WILL PUT BACK AS BETTER THE DRIVEWAYS, THE TREES, THE VEGETATION, THE FENCING, ALL THAT RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND. ARE, ARE CHARLOTTE, I HAD A QUESTION ABOUT THE FUNDING. SO, UM, YOU'RE GOING TO REQUEST THE 2.7 MILLION IN THE FISCAL 27 BUDGET. UM, 1.7, SORRY, 1.7. UM, AND WE WON'T KNOW WHETHER THE PROJECT IS APPROVED FROM BILL UNTIL THE FALL OF FEBRUARY. NO, IT'S ALREADY ALREADY DUE AUGUST. I'M SORRY, AUGUST. SO ASSUMING, UM, THE 1.7 IS GRANTED IN THE BUDGET, UM, IT'S ONLY CON IT IS ONLY CONTINGENT IF THE BUILD GRANT COMES THROUGH. IF THE BUILD GRANT DOES NOT COME THROUGH, WOULD YOU EXPECT TO COME BACK AND REQUEST THE DIFFERENCE? GREAT QUESTION. NO, WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA GO RIGHT BACK AND AS SOON AS THIS PROJECT IS APPROVED, WE'RE GONNA GO BACK FOR THE CONS CONGRESSIONAL DISCRETIONARY GRANT AS WELL. SO WE'RE GONNA KEEP GOING AFTER FUNDING AND I THINK COUNCILLOR HOSNI, UM, WILL HAVE PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITY TO GET INTO HOW WE BUILD THE CAPITAL BUDGET FOR THE CONTINGENCY IF THE COUNCIL IS INTERESTED IN MAKING SURE THAT THE PROJECT HAPPENS IN THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR IF WE DON'T GET THE GRANT. AND IF NOT, IF YOU PREFER THAT WE CONTINUE TO PURSUE OUTSIDE FUNDING, WE'LL KEEP DOING THAT AND PUSHING THE DATE OUT FOR THE CONSTRUCTION. UM, BUT DEPENDING ON HOW THE CIP BUDGET IS BUILT, AS YOU KNOW, ONCE THAT BUDGET IS ADOPTED, WE CAN'T GO BACK AND AMEND IT AND ASK FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDS OUT OF THE RESERVES IN THE SAME FISCAL YEAR. RIGHT? CORRECT. SO WE WOULD HAVE TO MOVE IT FROM ANOTHER PROJECT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO THAT'S ALL MORE WE CAN DISCUSS FURTHER, UM, AT THE NEXT BUDGET WORK SESSION. MM-HMM . AT THAT LEVEL, I, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THESE PROJECTS BEING DONE IN CONJUNCTION AND THE, THE REAL, UM, BENEFIT COMES, CAN'T SAY ONLY IF BOTH ARE DONE. UM, I'M A LITTLE WORRIED ABOUT ONLY DOING ONE AGREED . I CONCUR. UM, THE, THE, I SEE. NO WE'RE NOT OUT. ANYTHING TO ASK FOR GRANT MONEY THAT HAS NO MATCH. I MEAN, OR WE'RE GONNA PROPOSE A MATCH BUT, SO I MEAN I'M FINE WITH THAT. I'M JUST WONDERING, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE CONTINGENT, WHAT HAPPENS AFTER IF IT DOESN'T GO THROUGH. AND I GOT YOU. ARE WE DONE WITH QUESTIONS? NO, I HAVE ONE MORE. OKAY. GO AHEAD KATHY. I'M SORRY I'M HARPING ON THIS BUT UM, THE SLIDE SAYS IT'S A 5.4 MILLION TOTAL PROJECT [00:55:01] WITH 3.6 MILLION REQUESTED. THE PACKET SAYS THAT THE REQUEST FOR THAT APPLICATION IS 5.4 MILLION. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE GOING TO BE ASKING FOR OR AUTHORIZING OR, YOU KNOW, PUTTING IN A RESOLUTION. CAN YOU CLARIFY THAT? BECAUSE WHEN WE PUT THE PACKET TOGETHER, WE ONLY HAD THE TOTAL COST FROM THE ORIGINAL PLANS. AND SO ONCE WE'RE FORMULATING THE FISCAL YEAR 27 BUDGET, THAT'S WHEN I PUT THAT IN THERE AND WANTED THAT AS PART OF OUR DISCUSSION WITH THE GRANT ANALYSTS TO INCREASE OUR ODDS OF GETTING SELECTED, GETTING AWARDED. SO THIS RESOLUTION IF WE DID MAKE A MOTION, UM, IN THE SAMPLE MOTION THAT IS IN THE PACKET IS INCORRECT. SO WHAT IS OUR APPLICATION AMOUNT I THINK IS THE BOTTOM LINE RIGHT NOW IT'S THE REQUESTED 3.6 MILLION. OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION. OKAY. IF WE DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'M GONNA CALL FOR THE PUBLIC AND I HAVE TWO CARDS. FIRST IS LORRAINE. MM-HMM POMEROY FOLLOWED BY PT MCCONNEY. IS LORRAINE HERE. HI LORRAINE. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE AND YOU'LL HAVE THREE MINUTES. HI, MY NAME'S LORRAINE PALMER ROY, I LIVE AT SEVEN FIVE MORMON HILL ROAD. I THINK I'VE BEEN BATTLING THE ROUNDABOUT HERE SINCE 20 20 17 OR WHENEVER THIS ALL STARTED. SO I'M BACK. UM, I WANTED TO SAY THAT THIS AREA, AS MANY OF YOU KNOW, IF YOU'VE TAKEN THAT LITTLE ROUND SIDEWAYS, YOU SEE THE BIKE PLAY, YOU SEE THE HEART STORE, WHICH HAS BEEN THERE SINCE 19 26, 100 YEARS AND IS THE ORIGINAL HEART OF SEDONA. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS KNEW THAT. SO I THINK PUTTING IN A ROUNDABOUT THERE, ALTHOUGH I HEAR OH IT TIES IN WITH THE MOVE SEDONA AND THESE OTHER THINGS, I THINK YOU'RE MISSING UM, THE SENSE OF THE BEAUTY, THE COMMUNITY, UM, THE ORIGINALITY OF SEDONA THERE. IT WOULD NEGATIVELY IMPACT THE HEART STORE, WHICH IS NOW UH, MIA MARA. THEY'D PROBABLY GO OUT OF BUSINESS DURING CONSTRUCTION. UM, IT WOULD NEGATIVELY IMPACT THE $1 MILLION DRAINAGE DITCH THAT WAS BUILT TO PREVENT FLASH FLOODING AT AK. IT WOULD DISRUPT THE TRAFFIC FLOW AND ACCESS TO ALL THE HOMES DOWN BREWER ROAD, INCLUDING THE CITY ADMINISTRATION BUILDING AND COURT OFFICES. THIS WOULD ALSO NEGATIVELY IMPACT THE BEAUTIFUL PARK THAT FINALLY WAS COMPLETED AT THE RANGER STATION. THAT BEAUTIFUL WALKING AREA, THE PLAYGROUND, THE HUB FOR ALL THE, THOSE LITTLE VANS THAT GO TO THE TRAIL HEADS WOULD ALL BE IMPACTED NEGATIVELY. I CAME HERE BECAUSE THE CITY OF SEDONA HAS LOST POPULATION. WE NO LONGER CAN VOTE ON CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS LIKE THIS. SO I THOUGHT I NEEDED TO SPEAK UP AND JUST REMIND EVERYBODY. THERE ARE OTHER THINGS BESIDES COMPLYING WITH THE PLAN THAT WE HAD 10 YEARS AGO. THE WORLD HAS CHANGED, SEDONAS CHANGED AND YOU ARE RIGHT. I AGREE. THE TRAFFIC WILL JUST BACK UP, WHETHER IT'S A CIRCLE OR A THREE-WAY STOP AND PEOPLE DO NOT OBEY THE LAW TO KEEP THE INTERSECTION CLEAR. THEY JUST DON'T. SOMETIMES IT TAKES 45 MINUTES FOR ME TO GET FROM CVS TO MY HOME ON MORMON HILL. THAT'S PROBABLY A MILE AND A HALF, A MILE AND AN EIGHTH. IT'S RIDICULOUS. I DON'T THINK A TRAFFIC CIRCLE WILL CHANGE IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU PT. THIS PHOTOGRAPH, THIS IS WHEN WE BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY. YOU NEED TO GO TO THE MIC. CAN YOU MAKE COPIES FOR US? HI, MY NAME IS PJ MILANI AND THAT'S MY, SHE'S THE OWNER OF NOW. SHE RENTS THE PLACE FROM ME. CAN YOU TELL US YOUR UH, CITY OF RESIDENCE PLEASE? UH, SEDONA. THANK [01:00:01] YOU. SO, UH, I'M HERE TODAY TO DISCUSS THE FACT THAT WHEN WE BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY, THE ROUNDABOUT WAS AWAY FROM US. A YEAR LATER WE FOUND OUT THAT THE ROUNDABOUT IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF OUR DOOR. AND I WANNA KNOW WHY WITHOUT EVEN TALKING TO US, BUT TALKING TO ALL OUR NEIGHBORS WHY THIS WAS DONE. 'CAUSE THIS IS GOING TO NEGATIVELY IMPACT HER BUSINESS. THE EGRESS EGRESS IS GONNA GET AFFECTED. AND HE SAYS THAT HE ADDRESSED THE ISSUE WITH ME ABOUT PARKING. I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING CONCRETE YET AND I HAVE FOUR PARKINGS RIGHT NOW IN THE BUILDING AND HE'S BROUGHT IT DOWN TO THREE. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW HE HASN'T AFFECTED MY PARKING. PLUS THERE'S 10 ON STREET PARKINGS OVER THERE RIGHT NOW WITH THIS ROUNDABOUT. EVERYTHING IS GONNA GET ELIMINATED UNLESS IT COMES UP WITH A PLAN TO GIVE BACK 10 PARKINGS OVER THERE AND PUTTING A PARKING BEHIND THE BIKE SHOP DOESN'T HELP US. SO THESE ARE REAL CONCERNS AND IF YOU CAN PUSH THE ROUNDABOUT BACK TO WHERE IT WAS ORIGINALLY IN THAT PLAN, WE HAVE NO ISSUES. BUT IT DOES AFFECT US. YOU WANNA SAY SOMETHING? WE UNDERSTAND THAT UPDATING THE CITY. CAN YOU GIVE US YOUR NAME PLEASE? I'M SORRY. MY NAME IS SANDY PATEL. I ALSO LIVE IN SEDONA. UM, BUT UNDER, I UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW, UPDATING THE CITY IS GREAT, RIGHT? TRANSPORTATION. BUT THE PROBLEM IS, LIKE YOU ALL SAID, THE TRAFFIC IS STILL GONNA COME DOWN TO THE ROUNDABOUT. AND IF YOU HAVE EVER SAT IN THAT TRAFFIC, LIKE WE, WE ARE THERE EVERY SINGLE DAY RIGHT ON THAT CORNER. IT BACKS UP THAT STOP SIGN BACKS UP. WHETHER THERE'S A STOP SIGN OR A ROUNDABOUT, IT'S ALWAYS GOING. IT'S STILL GOING TO BACK UP AND, BUT THE PROBLEM IS WITH OUR BUSINESS BEING IN THAT CORNER, AS YOU SAW ON THAT MAP, FOR FOR ANYONE TO, TO COME LEFT TO OUR SIDE. 'CAUSE YOU SAID GOOGLE MAPS TAKES YOU DOWN BREWER ROAD, BUT TO GET TO OUR BUILDING ON THE LEFT SIDE, IT'S NOT, PEOPLE ARE NOT GONNA STOP THERE. ESPECIALLY IF THAT TRAFFIC IS STILL BACKED UP UP THERE. THAT'S ONE OF OUR CONCERNS COMING LEFT FOR SOMEBODY TO COME INTO OUR, OUR BUILDING TO COME SHOP IS NOT GONNA BE EASY FOR ANYBODY. PLUS, LIKE PJ SAID, ORIGINALLY WE, WE THOUGHT THAT THAT ROUNDABOUT WAS GONNA BE A LITTLE BIT AWAY FROM US. NOW IT'S NOT. IT'S RIGHT THERE. AND CURTIS, I KNOW THAT YOU'VE BEEN KIND TO US, YOU'VE BEEN HELPFUL UNDER, YOU KNOW, EXPLAINING ALL OF THIS. WE HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING BACK FROM A PREVIOUS EMAIL THAT WE SENT A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO. SO WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY UPDATES. IT'S BEEN A REAL CONFUSING QUESTION SO WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THIS WAS GONNA HAPPEN, BUT THAT'S OKAY. WE'RE HERE TO UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION. BUT UM, THE PARKING SPOT IS BEING TAKEN AWAY. IT IS BEING TAKEN AWAY. WE HAVE FOUR SPOTS RIGHT NOW AND LIKE DEREK ASKED YOU, IS A PARKING SPOT BEING TAKEN AWAY? YES, IT IS BEING TAKEN AWAY. WE HAVE FOUR RIGHT NOW. WE'RE ONLY GONNA BE LEFT WITH THREE AS IT IS. PEOPLE SAY WE ARE, WE HAVE NOWHERE TO PARK. WE HAVE NOWHERE TO PARK. BUT YOU SAID YOU'RE GONNA GIVE US PARKING THAT'S NOT EVEN DEDICATED PARKING RIGHT NOW WE HAVE FOUR DEDICATED SPOTS TO US. CAN YOU JUST FINISH UP? 'CAUSE YOUR TIME HAS EXPIRED. THANK YOU. I HAVE A LOT TO SAY, BUT I AM OUT OF TIME, SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. SO WE, WE'VE MADE A COPY OF, OF THE UH, P WHAT YOU PROVIDED TO US AND DO YOU WANNA RESPOND, KURT, REGARDING THE CHANGE IN THE LOCATION OF THE ROUNDABOUT? YEAH, I MEAN SINCE I'VE COME ON THE PROJECT, THE FOOTPRINT HAS ALWAYS TRIED TO MATCH WHAT WE HAVE WITHIN RIGHT OF WAY TO MINIMIZE THE FOOTPRINT AND THE AMOUNT OF EASEMENTS THAT'S REQUIRED WITH THE PROJECT. WHAT THE REFERRING TO IS, YEAH, WE'VE ACCOMMODATED THE BUSINESS THERE TO PROVIDE PUBLIC PARKING. WE CAN'T MAKE IT PRIVATE PARKING AS THEY SAID. SO PART OF THIS IS NOT WITHIN THE DESIGN WAS WHERE THE DRIVEWAY ENTRANCE INTO THE LIFT STATION. THAT'S A LONG RANGER ROAD, UM, RIGHT HERE YOU COULD SEE ACROSS HERE. SO WE WERE GONNA ADD SOME ADDITIONAL PARKING IN THERE. WE CAN'T DO THAT NOW BECAUSE THAT'S ALL PART OF OUR PORTAL BREWER IMPROVEMENT PROJECT, WHICH WE'RE STILL TRYING TO WORK THROUGH. SO IT'S HARD TO GIVE DEFINITIVE AND CONCRETE ANSWERS WHEN WE'RE STILL STUCK IN DESIGN AND APPROVAL. SO ONCE THE PROJECT'S MOVING AND FORWARD AND WE CAN MOVE THESE PROJECTS, WE WILL CONTINUE TO TRY TO ACCOMMODATE AND MEET THEIR QUESTIONS. I THINK THE QUESTIONS OF AVAILABLE PARKING IS THE SIZE OF THE PARKING SPACE. UM, THOSE ARE ALSO A CHALLENGE. GREAT. UH, LET ME JUST, IF YOU WANNA TURN IN A CARD, YOU COULD HAVE THREE MINUTES IF YOU WANNA FINISH ANDY, GO AHEAD. I COULD MAYBE QUICKLY CLARIFY SOMETHING. SO IF I'M COMPARING [01:05:01] THE, THE CURRENT DESIGN TO THIS CONCEPT DESIGN THAT THEY PROVIDED HERE. OH, I CAN HEAR YOU NOW. WAS KURT THE ENGINEER THAT SWAPPED OUT MY . I THINK KURT FIXED IT. YEAH, . SO THE OLD CONCEPT DESIGN SHOWED, IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT WHAT THE HANDOUT WAS, IT SHOWED A EDGE OF PAVEMENT ADJACENT TO THEIR PROPERTY LINE AND IT DID NOT SHOW BACK THEN A SHARED USE PATH. THE FACT IS, IF YOU INTERPRET THESE DRAWINGS CORRECTLY, THE THE ROUNDABOUT ACTUALLY MOVED AWAY FROM THEIR PROPERTY. SO WE ADDED IN A SHARED USE PATH, THE EDGE OF PAVEMENT, THE ROAD SHIFTED OVER AND THE NEXT THING YOU CAN LOOK AT IS THE CENTER OF THE INTERSECTION OR THE CENTER OF THE ROUNDABOUT. IF YOU COMPARE WHERE IT USED TO BE TO WHERE IT IS IN THE CURRENT DESIGN, IT IN FACT MOVED AWAY FROM THEIR PROPERTY. THAT'S, THAT'S JUST THE FACT. THEN THE OTHER THING, I THINK KURT EXPLAINED IT FAIRLY WELL, BUT I'LL JUST REITERATE. THEIR PARKING, WHICH IS NOT DESIGNATED FOR THEIR PROPERTY IS IN THE CITY RIGHT OF WAY. BY MAKING THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE NECESSARY TO IMPROVE THIS AREA, SOME OF ONE OF THEIR SPACES IS IMPACTED. HOWEVER, WE'VE LOOKED TO ADD PUBLIC PARKING BACK TO THIS AREA, WHICH IN ESSENCE INCREASES THEIR PARKING CAPACITY, NOT REDUCES. COUNCIL SHOULD ALSO KNOW THAT PART OF THIS DESIGN, WE CAN'T HAVE TRAFFIC PARKING BACKING INTO THE ROUNDABOUT. SO WE HAD TO MAKE THIS A DRIVEWAY, INGRESS AND EGRESS AND FORTUNATELY THE PROPERTY TO THE NORTH WAS VERY ACCOMMODATING, ALLOWING THAT DRIVEWAY EXIT FOR THEIR STAFF THEMSELVES TO EXIT FARTHER DOWN BREWER TO MAKE IT AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE FOR THEM, THEIR PATRONS AND THE WALKING COMMUNITY. OKAY, SANDY, DON'T YOU COME ON UP. THANK YOU AGAIN, MY NAME IS SANDY PATEL. I ALSO LIVE IN SEDONA. UM, SO PJ ALSO SPENT QUITE A BIT OF MONEY IN THE PLANNING. IN, IN PART OF THIS PLANNING, WE ACTUALLY GOT OUR, UM, ARCHITECT TO HELP US OUT WITH THE DESIGN PLANNING, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN MANAGE TO KEEP OUR PARKING SPOT. UM, BUT I GUESS NONE OF THAT REALLY HELPED ANY OF THIS. BUT THIS ROUNDABOUT FOR ONE THING, HAVING IT BE A YEAR, WE DON'T EVEN KNOW IF IT'S GONNA BE A YEAR, UM, A YEAR, MORE THAN A YEAR. IT IS GONNA PUT ME OUT OF BUSINESS. IT REALLY IS GONNA PUT ME OUT OF BUSINESS. THERE IS NO WAY LOCAL PEOPLE ARE ALREADY CONCERNED THAT HOW ARE WE GONNA GET HERE? AND WE'RE, WE'RE FIGHTING TO KEEP THE COMMUNITY COMING TO US, YOU KNOW, FIGHTING LOCALS. THEY KNOW THAT WE'RE HERE. UM, WE WANT EVERYONE TO STILL BE THERE. COME TO US. WE'VE BEEN HERE FOR A HUNDRED YEARS, HUN. THE HEART STORE HAS BEEN HERE FOR A HUNDRED YEARS. WE ARE KEEPING UP WITH THAT, THAT THE SHOP, YOU KNOW, JUST EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS. AND WE'RE HISTORIC. FINE. WE WILL, WE DON'T, IF WE WANNA TAKE AWAY THAT HISTORIC STATUS, OKAY, THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD MAKE US SAD. I THINK A LOT OF THE COMMUNITY WOULD BE SAD TOO. BUT THIS IS WHERE THIS IS GOING. IT'S GONNA DRIVE US OUT OF BUSINESS. I, I, I HAVE PUT MY HEART AND SOUL INTO THIS. SO HAS PJ. IT IS, IT'S HEARTBREAKING THAT KNOWING THAT THIS IS ALL GONNA START, PEOPLE ARE NOT GONNA COME TO US BECAUSE THEY CAN'T FIND A PARKING SPOT. THEY CAN'T GET THROUGH THAT ROUNDABOUT. IT'S, IT'S NOT GONNA WORK FOR US. IT'S REALLY, REALLY IMPACTING US. WE UNDERSTAND THE IMPROVEMENTS IN THE CITY, AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WANT PEOPLE TO WALK TO US. THAT'S ALSO NOT GONNA HAPPEN. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. PEOPLE WANNA COME IN THEIR LEISURE CARS AND THEY WANNA FIND A PARKING SPOT. I UNDERSTAND THERE'S THAT PARK RIGHT ACROSS THAT HAS 35 SPOTS STILL, PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO WALK DOWN. IT'S JUST NOT A NATURE OF PEOPLE TO HAVE TO TAKE A LOT OF TIME WHEN THEY WANNA JUST PICK UP A, A NAPKIN, A LITTLE GIFT, THEY JUST WANNA RUN IN AND OUT, RIGHT? BUT THEY DON'T HAVE AN HOUR TO SPEND WALKING 10 MINUTES DOWN AND THEN GO BACK 10 MINUTES. IT'S JUST NOT GONNA HAPPEN. THIS IS GOING TO PUT US OUT OF BUSINESS. IT REALLY IS TO HAVE ONE YEAR OF CONSTRUCTION. WHEN WE'VE BEEN HERE THREE AND A HALF YEARS. WE HAVE PUT OUR HEART AND SOUL INTO THIS, KEEPING THIS GOING AND IMPROVING, IMPROVING. EVERY YEAR WE'RE IMPROVING. AND THIS YEAR MY HEART WAS [01:10:01] REALLY INTO IT, 150% IN IMPROVING THIS EVEN MORE. AND, AND LETTING THE WHOLE CITY OF SEDONA KNOW THAT WE ARE STILL HERE AND WE'RE THRIVING. WE WANT ALL OF YOU TO COME TO OUR BUSINESS AND I'M HERE TO HELP EVERYBODY THAT COMES TO US. BUT THIS IS GONNA BREAK US. THANK YOU, SANDY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I HAVE ANOTHER CARD FROM ROBERT, AND I'M SORRY I CAN'T READ YOUR LAST NAME. THANK YOU, ROBERT. UH, YOUR NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE, PLEASE. AND THEN YOU'LL HAVE THREE MINUTES. SEDONA AND LAY SPRINGS. BEEN HERE FOR ABOUT FOUR YEARS. BEAUTIFUL CITY BACKGROUND. FORMER FBI TRAINED HOMICIDE INVESTIGATOR, WORKED TRAFFIC IN CALIFORNIA, MAJOR METROPOLITAN AREAS, MOTORCYCLE AND INJURY, AND FATAL ACCIDENTS. THIS ROUNDABOUT IS APPEALING. IT LOOKS GOOD. IT'S NICE TO HAVE ARTWORK IN FRONT OF IT, BUT IT'S GONNA BE A DISASTER. THE ONLY THING YOU'RE GONNA PUT THESE PEOPLE OUTTA BUSINESS AND IT'S GONNA PUT TOW TRUCKS IN BUSINESS. YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A LOT OF MONEY FOR YOUR TOW TRUCK OPERATORS. YOUR POLICE ARE GONNA GET A LOT MORE ACTIVITY. IT'S A DISASTER. PEOPLE THAT COME HERE AND VISIT HERE IN THE MILLIONS EVERY YEAR ARE NOT JUST RESIDENTS, BUT THEY DO NOT KNOW TURNABOUT OR ROUNDABOUT PROTOCOLS. I JUST SAT IN FRONT OF THE OTHER DAY AND I WATCHED THE PRO, THE WATCHED THE TRAFFIC CIRCLES AND THERE WAS PEOPLE HONKING AND SWERVING AND NEARLY MISSING ALL THE TIME. THIS IS TOTALLY UNNECESSARY. SOMEBODY'S ARTWORK OR SOMEBODY'S BRIGHT IDEA, BUT IT'S DISASTROUS FOR THEIR BUSINESS AND IT'S GONNA CAUSE ACCIDENTS. YOU'RE GONNA SEE PEOPLE HURT OR MAYBE EVEN KILLED THERE BECAUSE PEOPLE JUST DON'T KNOW HOW TO NAVIGATE THESE TRAFFIC CIRCLES COMING FROM PHOENIX OR OTHER COUNTRIES THAT DO NOT HAVE TRAFFIC CIRCLES. SO I JUST REALLY STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT THIS IS AVERTED BECAUSE IT'S A DISASTER IN THE MAKING. THANK YOU. OKAY, KATHY, KURT, WHAT, UM, PERCENTAGE OF WOULD YOU CONSIDER THIS IN TERMS OF COMPLETE DESIGN? OH, WE'RE AT A HUNDRED PERCENT. WE'RE JUST WAITING TO GET THE FINAL EASEMENT AS, UH, COUNSEL HAS DIRECTED US BEFORE WE MOVE PROJECTS. WE'RE REALLY WAITING FOR FUNDING. OKAY. THANK YOU. ARE WE READY FOR COMMENTS? DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS, KATHY? I DO HAVE A COMMENT. I, I'M, I, IF I'D LIKE TO SEE THESE TWO ITEMS SEPARATED INSTEAD OF THEM BEING ONE MOTION ON BOTH OF THESE, UM, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEY THINK THAT PEOPLE, I DON'T KNOW, MIGHT WANT TO VOTE ONE WAY ON ONE APPLICATION AND ONE WAY ON ANOTHER. SO I JUST PUT THAT OUT THERE, SEE IF THERE'S ANYBODY WHO MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN THAT, IF THEY THINK THAT THAT'S NECESSARY OR WOULD MAKE IT MORE EASIER FOR THEM TO VOTE ON THIS. YES. OKAY. JUST SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND. OKAY. ARE THERE COMMENTS? NO COMMENTS, DEREK? UH, UH, KATHY, THANK YOU FOR THE SUGGESTION. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM SEPARATED BECAUSE I'M JUST, I'M NOT, I'M NOT INTERESTED IN PUTTING THESE FOLKS OUTTA BUSINESS. UM, I DO WANT TO ADD, UH, WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS DURING CONSTRUCTION ABOUT KEEPING THEIR BUSINESS OPEN. WE WOULD ADD ADVERTISING SIGNS THAT THEY WERE OPEN. WE WOULD ACCOMMODATE PARKING OFFSITE OR WHERE THEIR LOCATION WAS IN ORDER TO, UH, AGAIN, ACCOMMODATE THIS. IT'S A STANDARD PROTOCOL WE ALWAYS DO TO ADJACENT BUSINESSES DURING BIG, UH, CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS. SO WE'VE LISTENED TO THEM AND WE ARE MINDFUL AND WE'LL DO OUR BEST TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE ACCESS DURING CONSTRUCTION. MAY I, MAY I CLARIFY. SO THE ACTION TONIGHT IS ABOUT APPLYING FOR A GRANT, NOT ABOUT APPROVING THE DESIGN OR THE I KNOW PROJECT. OKAY. I KNOW, BECAUSE IF WE NEED TO COME BACK AND REVISIT OUR WHOLE SIM PROGRAM AND WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE WITHOUT THIS PIECE, IT'S, THAT'S A MAJOR CONVERSATION. SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, NO, I'M NOT VOTING. WHAT I'M SAYING FOR THE GRANT ISN'T AN, DOES NOT INCLUDE THE ACTION OF NOT DOING THE PROJECT ITSELF. OKAY. THANK YOU ANNETTE. UM, IF, IF WE RECEIVE THE GRANT, IS THERE AN ABILITY TO MODIFY WHAT WE'VE REQUESTED OR MODIFY THE PLAN ITSELF? TYPICALLY THE GRANT IS APPROVED BASED ON THE SCOPE AND THE DESIGN. IF THEY'RE MINOR MODIFICATIONS, AS LONG AS THE BUDGET LIMIT MEETS, IT'S USUALLY, UH, OKAY. IT'S FINE. MM-HMM . AND THIS WOULD COME BACK IF WE RECEIVED THE GRANT, YOU KNOW, THIS WHOLE PACKAGE COMES BACK TO THE COUNCIL FOR THE PROCESS TO AWARD THE CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT. AND THERE'S STILL A LOT OF STEPS. [01:15:01] SO EVEN IF WE GOT THE GRANT, WE WOULD STILL BE BACK BEFORE COUNCIL TO MOVE THE PROJECT FORWARD. AND THE WHOLE EXTENSION OF THE PROJECT, THE, THE ROUNDABOUT IS ON SOLDIER'S WASH. SO THE BIG PART OF THIS PROJECT WITH THE SISTER ROUNDABOUT IS, UH, A, AN ARCHED BRIDGE EXTENSION IN ORDER TO PUT THE ROUNDABOUT OVER THE SOLDIER'S WASH. THAT'S THE BIG ISSUE. SO, AND ALSO REMIND COUNSEL, WE PURCHASED THE PROPERTY FARTHER TO THE WEST. SO THERE IS AN ABILITY, BUT THAT WOULD INCREASE A LARGER COST. 'CAUSE THAT WOULD REQUIRE RETAINING WALLS, EVERYTHING THAT WE DID TO PURCHASE THOSE PROPERTIES TO, UM, REMOVE THOSE, UM, EXPENSIVE ITEMS FROM THE PROJECT. SO I THINK THAT IN, IN MY MIND, I, I WAS DOING WHAT THE CITY MANAGER'S DOING AND SEPARATING OUT APPLICATION FOR A GRANT. AND THEN WHAT WE ACTUALLY BUILD. I THINK WE HAVE SOME OPEN ISSUES HERE. WE DON'T WANNA SEE BUSINESSES BE PUT OUT OF BUSINESS OR SUFFER. WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH IN INCREASING, UH, POTENTIAL FOR ACCIDENTS WITHIN THE CIRCLE BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE THE CIRCLES AND THEY'RE STILL GONNA BACK UP. WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE SLIP LANE AND ON THE IMPACT ON PORTAL LANE, BUT I FIGURED EVERYONE KNEW PORTAL LANE WAS JUST THE RIGHT TURN LANE INTO TO LOCK. THAT'S WHY I SAID IT THAT WAY. SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT WE'VE BROUGHT UP AND CONCERNS THAT WE'VE BROUGHT UP, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK ALL OF THOSE CAN BE ADDRESSED. IF THE GRANT IS A APPROVED, WE STILL NEED TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION AT THE TIME THAT THE GRANT WOULD COME BACK BEFORE US. AND THE GRANT IS NOT APPROVED THAN I JUST HEARD. THEY'RE PLANNING ON COMING TO US WITH A BUDGET PACKAGE AND THERE'S, YOU KNOW, A LOT MORE CONVERSATION THAT CAN THEN HAPPEN AROUND WHETHER OR NOT WE FEEL THESE, THESE HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED. SO, AND I THINK THE WAY I, I SAW THAT THERE'S STILL A PIECE OF THIS WE WILL BE PAYING ANYWAY. UM, RIGHT. SO THERE'S, I THINK I, I, I THINK I, IN MY MIND, I HAVE TO SEPARATE OUT WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO BUILD FROM APPLYING FOR THE GRANT, WHICH IS NOT A SURE THING. IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S A VERY UNSURE THING. . IT'S VERY UNSURE. THAT'S WHY WE WANTED A MATCH FOR THIS. KATHY AND I, AND I ALSO, I MEAN, WHEN I RECEIVED MY PACKET, UM, AND READ THROUGH IT, I THOUGHT WE WERE LOOKING AT A GRANT APPLICATION, THE SECOND GRANT APPLICATION FOR THIS PROJECT THAT WOULD HAVE A 0% MATCH. AND THIS NOW HAS A, YOU KNOW, 33% MATCH. SO, TO ME, THIS HAS CHANGED SIGNIFICANTLY. WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT UNTIL THIS PRESENTATION TONIGHT. WE DIDN'T EVEN DISCUSS THIS YESTERDAY. AND, YOU KNOW, WITH RIGHT. CITY MANAGER DIDN'T KNOW EITHER. UM, SO IT'S UNFORTUNATE. SO I THINK THAT THESE ARE VERY SIGNIFICANT, WHICH IS AGAIN, WHY I WANNA SEPARATE THESE TWO THINGS. 'CAUSE I THINK ONE HAS QUESTIONS ABOUT IT AND THE OTHER IS A BIT MORE CLEAR CUT. SO WITH THAT, I MEAN, I COULD MAKE A MOTION WHENEVER YOU'RE READY. YEAH, BUT I, I JUST WANNA POINT OUT THAT ONE IS THE DUE DATE FOR APPLYING FOR THE GRANT. FEBRUARY. FEBRUARY, MM-HMM . SO THERE IS NO REAL TIME FOR THEM TO COME BACK AND TALK ABOUT IT. IF WE, IF WE SEPARATE THEM OUT AND WE CHOOSE, AGAIN, NOT ABOUT THE BUILDING OF IT, BUT ABOUT THE APPLICATION FOR THE GRANT, THEY'RE GOING TO MISS THE GRANT DEADLINE. AND THEN THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT DOING FOR THE GRANT ANYWAY, SO I UNDERSTAND, BUT THAT THERE'S STILL AN OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE ON EACH ONE THE WAY YOU WANNA VOTE ON EACH ONE. I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT KEEPS, THAT DOESN'T CONVINCE ME THERE'S REASON TO KEEP THESE BUNDLED TOGETHER. OKAY. WE'RE GONNA VOTE ON, ON, WE DON'T HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THAT ANYMORE. WE'RE GONNA VOTE SEPARATELY. OKAY. DEREK, I'LL SUPPORT APPLYING FOR THE GRANT, BUT THERE ARE OPEN CONCERNS ABOUT THIS THAT I JUST, I WANT TO KNOW THAT WE'VE DONE EVERYTHING WE CAN POSSIBLY DO TO MITIGATE THE IMPACT ON THIS BUSINESS. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS MORE WE CAN DO, BUT AT THIS POINT, I'M NOT CONVINCED THAT WE COULDN'T DO MORE OR AT LEAST LOOK AT MORE OPTIONS. SO WHEN THIS COMES BACK TO US FOR CONTRACT, WHATEVER IT'S GONNA BE, I'M GONNA EXPECT TO SEE THAT SOME MORE EFFORT'S BEEN MADE. WELL, AS MELISSA POINTED OUT, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IT, WHETHER IT'S WHEN THE GRANT IS APPROVED AND COME BACK TO, UH, FOR APPROVAL OR IN THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS FOR THE FY 27 BUDGET IF WE DO NOT RECEIVE THE GRANT. YEAH, AND I JUST, I WANT TO ADD, KURT, I KNOW YOU'RE TRYING TO WORK WITH THE BUSINESS OWNERS. I'M NOT QUESTIONING THAT. I JUST, I THINK I'VE BEEN TO THIS PROPERTY AND I THINK IT'S A, IT'S A CHALLENGING LOCATION. UM, SO I THINK THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO BE, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE MORE [01:20:01] FLEXIBLE THAN WE WOULD NORMALLY BE WITH SOMEBODY WHO'S GOT A FULL PARKING FIELD AND, YOU KNOW, ACCESS FROM EVERY DIRECTION, ET CETERA. SO I JUST WANNA BE MINDFUL OF THAT AS WE MOVE FORWARD. ANY OTHER, I I JUST WANNA SAY I'M GONNA SUPPORT THIS, BUT WITH THE SAME RESERVATIONS THAT MY COLLEAGUES HAVE EXPRESSED, AND I THINK WE NEED TO THINK OUT OF THE BOX OF WHAT WE COULD DO IF WE MOVE FORWARD MORE THAN, YOU KNOW, CONSTRUCTION. I, I, I'M SYMPATHETIC TO YOUR SITUATION, THE CONSTRUCTION RIGHT THERE AT THEIR LOCATION. I DUNNO HOW PEOPLE GET THERE, EVEN WITH A SIGN. SO I THINK WE SHOULD BE CREATIVE ABOUT WHAT WE CAN DO, UH, TO MAYBE MOVE THE BUSINESS, HELP THE BUSINESS STAY ALIVE DURING A PERIOD OF CONSTRUCTION WHEN PEOPLE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ACCESS THEIR LOCATION. UH, QUESTION FOR KURT COULD BE ADD IT TO A SHUTTLE STOP DURING CONSTRUCTION. WOULD THAT BE A GIFT CLAUSE ISSUE, OR, UH, NO, I DON'T BELIEVE I'VE, I MEAN, PEOPLE DON'T WANNA WATCH A SHUTTLE STOP ABOUT THAT. IN GENERAL, BUSINESSES AREN'T ENTITLED TO ANY AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC ON THE ROADS AND THE CITY'S FREE TO DO, UM, ANY CONSTRUCTION. IT NEEDS TO IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY TRAFFIC. I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT IF WE'RE REPEATING ACCESS, BUT I DON'T THINK A SHUTTLE STOP WOULD HAVE ANY, UH, GIFT CLASS CONCERNS. I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYBODY'S GONNA BE ABLE TO GET THROUGH THAT LOCATION. YEAH, BUT I MEANS THE CONSTRUCTION, IT'S TRYING TO THINK OUTTA THE BOX. I MEAN, FIND, FIND SOMETHING. 'CAUSE LET'S FACE IT, PEOPLE COME TO SEDONA TO HIKE, BUT THEN WHEN THEY GET OUT, THEY DON'T WANNA WALK, THEY COME TO HIKE, THEY DON'T WANNA, THEY WANT TO DRIVE EVERYWHERE. RIGHT? SO, UH, BUT I JUST, I WANT TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DO THAT. OKAY. SO KATHY, WHY DON'T YOU MAKE YOUR TWO MO WELL, AT LEAST IN ONE MOTION, MAKE FIRST MOTION. UM, I MOVED TO AUTHORIZE THE CITY TO APPLY FOR AN FY 26 BUILDING BETTER, UTILIZING INVESTMENTS TO LEVERAGE DEVELOPMENT. IE BUILD GRANT FROM THE US DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION IN, UM, INCLUDE AN APPLICATION OF APPROXIMATELY $2.3 MILLION FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF SIM 11 T COFFEE POT SHARED USE PATH, UM, SUBJECT TO CITY ATTORNEY APPROVAL. SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE. OKAY. THAT WAS THE EASY ONE. MM-HMM . SOMEBODY WANNA MAKE A MOTION FOR THE SECOND PROJECT. WHAT ARE THE RIGHT NUMBERS? 3.6. I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO AUTHORIZE THE CITY TO APPLY FOR A 20 FY 26 BETTER UTILIZE UTILIZING INVESTMENTS TO LEVERAGE DEVELOPMENT, A BUILD GRANT FROM THE US DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, INCLUDING APPROXIMATELY 3.6 MILLION FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF SIM FIVE D BREWER, RANGE OF ROAD ROUNDABOUT 5.4, LIKE LISTED IN THE TOTAL APPLICATION SUBJECT TO, NO, THE TOTAL APPLICATION WAS 7.7, IT SAYS, BUT THAT'S THE OLD NUMBER. THE NUMBERS HAVE CHANGED TONIGHT DURING THE PRESENTATION FROM 7.7 MILLION TO 5.9 MILLION, WHICH IS SIGNIFICANT. I'M GONNA ASK A POINT OF PER PERSONAL PRIVILEGE ON THAT SUBJECT TO, LET ME JUST FINISH THE MOTION SUBJECT TO THE STATE ATTORNEY APPROVAL. OKAY. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. THANK YOU. I'M FAMILIAR WITH GRANTS. THEY ASKED FOR THE TOTAL COST OF THE PROJECT, AND IF YOU PUT IN A MATCH THAT REDUCES THE AMOUNT THEY GIVE YOU, BUT IT DOESN'T REDUCE THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF THE PROJECT. SO WHAT IS THE AMOUNT YOU'RE GONNA BE ASKING FOR 5.4 WITH THE LOCAL MATCH OF 3.6? THE LOCAL MATCH DOES NOT INCLUDE, I MEAN, DO, DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? YEAH, I THINK I SCREWED THAT UP. I THINK 5.4 IS THE RIGHT NUMBER. 5.4 IS THE TOTAL COST FOR THE PROJECT. WE'RE ASKING FOR 3.6 AND THE LOCAL MATCH IS 1.7. CORRECT? I UNDERSTAND THOSE NUMBERS. WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT WHEN YOU SUBMIT THE GRANT AND THEY SAY THE PROJECT COST, IT'S NOT GONNA BE 3.6 MILLION. THAT'S CORRECT. RIGHT. IT'S GONNA BE 5.4 MILLION. CORRECT. SO THE GRANT IS GONNA BE SAYING 5.4 MILLION AND WE ARE GONNA MATCH IT WITH 1.7. NO, NO, THE PROJECT COST IS 5.4. THE APPLICATION AMOUNT IS 3.6. WELL, IS IT BECAUSE YOU'RE PROVIDING A WHATEVER THE AMOUNT IS MATCH? YEAH. BUT USUALLY YOU ADD 'EM TOGETHER. THAT'S WHAT MY, THAT'S MY EXPERIENCE. SO THE TOTAL PROJECT COST IS ADDED. THE 3.6 REQUEST PLUS THE LOCAL MATCH TO GET I BET I'M NOT BEING HEARD AGAIN. RIGHT? THIS IS, THIS IS ALL SUBJECT TO CITY APPROVAL AND WE CAN FIX IT IN THE PAPERS. I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT. OKAY. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. SO ARE WE READY TO VOTE ON THIS THEN? MM-HMM . ALL RIGHT. ALL [01:25:01] THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE. OPPOSED? AYE. YOU'RE NOT OPPOSED? NO. OKAY. FOR THE GRANT APPLICATION, RIGHT? WE'RE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THIS. THIS IS JUST TO SUBMIT THE GRANT AND WE WOULD LIKE YOU TO CONTINUE TO HOLD ON, JOANNE, UH, CONTINUE TO WORK WITH THE OWNERS OF THE BUSINESS TO SEE WHAT WE CAN DO. AND YOU BE CREATIVE TOO ABOUT ACCOMMODATIONS. OKAY, JOE, I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T CATCH THE SECOND ON THAT MOTION. I KNOW THAT, UH, COUNCILOR FURMAN MADE THE MOTION AND HE SECONDED. VICE MAYOR. THANK YOU. BRIAN'S SECONDED. YEAH. THANK YOU. OKAY, NEXT. THANK YOU EVERYBODY. ARE YOU STAYING? THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT. OR WE'RE GETTING, [9.c. AB 3303 Discussion/possible direction regarding Uptown parking management strategies, including updates on the parking management system and related governance policies, readiness planning for a potential Residential Permit Parking (RPP) program, integration of City-managed parking, employee parking considerations, and development of parking fee structure framework. ] UH, AMBER. HI, AMBER. OKAY. AB 33 0 3 DISCUSSION POSSIBLE DIRECTION REGARDING UPTOWN PARKING MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES, INCLUDING UPDATES ON THE PARKING MANAGEMENT SYSTEM AND RELATED GOVERNANCE POLICIES READINESS PLANNING FOR A POTENTIAL RESIDENTIAL PERMIT PARKING PROGRAM, INTEGRATION OF CITY MANAGED PARKING, EMPLOYEE PARKING CONSIDERATIONS AND DEVELOPMENT OF PARKING FEE STRUCTURE FRAMEWORK. WE'VE GOTTEN A LOT OF EMAILS ON THIS SUBJECT TODAY. AMBER, ARE YOU PRESENTING? YES, I AM. OKAY. IT'S GETTING MYSELF SITUATED HERE. YEAH. CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES. GREAT. LET'S SEE. YEAH, MAYBE WE SHOULD TAKE A BREAK BEFORE YOU START, SINCE WE LOST TWO PEOPLE. LET'S JUST TAKE A 10 MINUTE BREAK. THIS IS FAIR. IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S OKAY. AMBER, ARE WE READY? WE'RE READY. WATER. OKAY. OKAY. GOOD EVENING, MAYOR, VICE MAYOR AND COUNSELORS. I'M AMBER WAGNER, THE TRANSIT ADMINISTRATOR. I ALSO HAVE DAVID LESCO, OUR NEW PARKING ADMINISTRATOR, AND NATASHA WOODS. UH, SHE IS OUR CONSULTANT WITH ATHENA PARTNERS. WE HAVE WORKED WITH, UH, ATHENA PARTNERS ON OUR PARKING MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES SINCE LAST APRIL OF 2025. TONIGHT, WE'RE GONNA BE PROVIDING AN UPDATE ON THE UPTOWN PARKING PROGRAM AND KEY STRATEGIES AS WE MOVE TOWARD OPENING THE UPTOWN PARKING GARAGE, WHICH IS SLATED TO OPEN IN JUNE, THIS JUNE OF 2026. THIS SIGNIFIES A SHIFT AS WE ARE MOVING FROM OUR PLANNING, UH, TOWARDS IMPLEMENTATION TO THE BROADENING PARKING SYSTEM IN SEDONA AND IN THE UPTOWN AND AROUND THE GARAGE. THIS ITEM IS INFORMATION AND POLICY FOCUSED, AND THERE ARE NO IMMEDIATE CHANGES PROPOSED THIS EVENING. I'M GONNA START BY WALKING THROUGH HOW TONIGHT'S DISCUSSION IS GONNA BE STRUCTURED. UM, OUR PRESENTATION WILL TAKE ABOUT AN HOUR, FOLLOWED BY COUNCIL DISCUSSION. BUT WITH THAT SAID, AS WE WALK THROUGH THE FOCUS AREAS THAT I'LL BE PRESENTING, UH, WE CAN STOP AND, UH, ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS DURING ANY TIME THAT YOU MAY HAVE. I'M GOING TO BRIEFLY REVIEW OUR BACKGROUND, WALK THROUGH THE FIVE PARKING FOCUS AREAS, UH, THAT COUNCIL PREVIOUSLY DIRECTED STAFF TO DEVELOP, AND THEN SHARE AN UPDATE ON OUR PARKING WORK GROUP. BEFORE GETTING INTO THE DETAILS, I WANNA GO OVER A FEW KEY TAKEAWAYS. OUR SEDONAS PARKING MANAGEMENT IS BEING APPROACHED AS A COORDINATED SYSTEM AND NOT AS A SINGLE ACTION. AND THE FOCUS IS ON ESTABLISHING POLICY DIRECTION AND SEQUENCING. SO FUTURE DECISIONS CAN BE MADE THOUGHTFULLY WITH INPUT AND, UH, DIRECTION AND SOME, UH, FEEDBACK FROM OUR PARKING WORK GROUP. I'LL BRIEFLY RECAP THE PLANNING CONTEXT OF OUR PARKING MANAGEMENT IN SEDONA. AND OUR PARKING IN THE UPTOWN HAS BEEN STUDIED AND DISCUSSED FOR MANY YEARS. I THINK IT'S BEEN ABOUT TWO DECADES, UH, ACROSS MULTIPLE PLANS AND STUDIES THAT ARE INCLUDED ON THIS SLIDE. THE CONSISTENT FINDING IS THAT THE UPTOWN CHALLENGES RELATE TO PEAK DEMAND, CIRCULATION, EMPLOYEE PARKING, AND NEIGHBORHOOD SPILLOVER, [01:30:01] NOT SIMPLY A LACK OF SPACES. IN 2023, WHEN CONSIDERING THE GARAGE COUNCIL DIRECTED STAFF TO ORGANIZE OUR WORK AROUND FIVE COORDINATED FOCUS AREAS PRIOR TO THE GARAGE OPENING THAT BACKGROUND LEADS US DIRECTLY INTO Y PARKING MANAGEMENT IN SEDONA IS ADVANCING. RIGHT NOW. THE UPTOWN GARAGE IS AN IMPORTANT INVESTMENT, BUT IT CANNOT, AND IT WASN'T INTENDED TO OPERATE IN ISOLATION WITHOUT COORDINATED PARKING MANAGEMENT ISSUES LIKE RECIRCULATION CONGESTION AND PRESSURES ON NEARBY STREETS WOULD CONTINUE. OUR PARKING MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES ALLOWS THE CITY TO RESPOND TO CHANGING CONDITIONS, IMPROVE OUR TURNOVER AND BETTER ALARM PARKING WITH ACCESS AND CIRCULATION GOALS OUTLINED IN OUR MASTER TRANSPORTATION PLAN AND SEDONA IN MOTION INITIATIVES. TO DO THAT EFFECTIVELY, COUNCIL ASKS STAFF TO ORGANIZE THE WORK INTO OUR FIVE FOCUS AREAS. THESE FOCUS AREAS ARE DESIGNED TO WORK TOGETHER, IS ONE SYSTEM. THEY, THEY'RE NOT STANDALONE PROGRAMS, BUT THEY ARE NOT ALL BEING IMPLEMENTED AT ONCE. I'M GONNA WALK THROUGH EACH AREA AND NOTE WHAT IS BEING DEVELOPED NOW VERSUS WHAT WOULD RETURN TO COUNCIL LATER. FIRST, I'M GONNA START WITH FOCUS AREA ONE, WHICH IS OUR PARKING MANAGEMENT AND TECHNOLOGY. LET ME JUST, UH, MAKE A COMMENT, IF ANY, I SEE A LOT OF NEW FACES IN THE AUDIENCE. IF YOU'RE HERE FOR THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE AND YOU WANNA SPEAK, YOU NEED TO WRITE A CARD. AND, UM, THEN YOU'LL BE GIVEN THREE MINUTES WHEN WE DO A PUBLIC, THE PUBLIC PART OF THIS. OR IF YOU'RE HERE FOR ANOTHER ISSUE FOLLOWING THIS ONE AND YOU WANNA SPEAK, YOU NEED TO FILL OUT A CARD AND GIVE IT TO JOANNE AT THIS TABLE. OKAY, GO AHEAD. NO PROBLEM. THE CITY IS MOVING TOWARDS A UNIFIED PARKING MANAGEMENT PLATFORM THAT SUPPORTS THE GARAGE, OUR ON STREET PARKING AND CITY MANAGED LOTS. THIS WILL BRING OUR PAYMENT, OUR PARKING ENFORCEMENT, PERMITTING AND OCCUPANCY INFORMATION INTO ONE COORDINATED SYSTEM AND CREATE A CONSISTENT EXPERIENCE FOR USERS. AN IMPORTANT PART OF THIS WORK IS HOW OUR TECHNOLOGY IS GOING TO BE PHASED IN SOME TECHNOLOGY ELEMENTS WERE ADDRESSED EARLY DUE TO GARAGE CONSTRUCTION AND TIMING. BUT BEYOND THAT, THE BROADER SYSTEM IS BEING COMPETITIVELY PROCURED THROUGH OUR PARKING MANAGEMENT SOLUTIONS, RFP, WHICH WAS ISSUED JANUARY 5TH. AND WE WILL BE RECEIVING, UH, PROPOSALS NEXT WEEK. UH, FEBRUARY 5TH, WE ANTICIPATE WITH THESE SOLUTIONS TO PILOT COMPONENTS OF IT ALONG OUR STREET, OUR FRONTAGE, OUR STREET FRONTAGE ALONG STATE ROUTE 89 A IN THE UPTOWN AHEAD OF THE GARAGE OPENING TO TEST OUR SIGNAGE, THE WORKFLOWS AND ENFORCEMENT COORDINATION WITH THIS TECHNOLOGY. WE ARE HOPING TO START A PILOT IN MARCH, DEPENDING ON OUR PROPOSAL SELECTION. WHENEVER TECHNOLOGY IS DISCUSSED, QUESTIONS ABOUT DATA HAVE COME UP AND WE'D LIKE TO, UH, DISCUSS THAT THIS EVENING. THE PARKING SYSTEM INCLUDES LICENSE PLATE RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGY, AND IT'S PARTICULARLY AND STARTING IN THE UPTOWN PARKING GARAGE. I'M GONNA REFERENCE EXHIBIT A, WHICH WAS IN THE PACKET AND AS DESCRIBED IN THE INFORMATION BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING. LICENSE PLATE RECOGNITION IN SEDONA PARKING MANAGEMENT IS SLATED TO BE USED SOLELY FOR OUR PARKING OPERATIONS. THAT'LL SUPPORT ENTRY AND EXIT PAYMENT VERIFICATION AND UNDERSTANDING OCCUPANCY AND POSSIBLY PERMITTING. IT FUNCTIONS AS A PARKING CREDENTIAL AND CANNOT BE USED FOR NON-PAR USE OR SHARED WITH OR CONNECTED TO ANY THIRD PARTY OR DATABASES OR THE DATA BE SOLD. THIS POLICY, WHICH IS EXHIBIT A, DEFINES THE PERMITTED USAGE LIMITS ACCESS, ESTABLISHES OUR RETENTION PERIODS, AND REQUIRES AUTOMATIC DATA PURGING. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS? YES. IS THIS DATA ? YEAH, OF COURSE. . IS THIS DATA SAVED FOR ANY PERIOD OF TIME? IT IS SAVED FOR 30 DAYS. WHY? SO THAT'S CURRENTLY THE POLICY AS FAR AS GENERAL DATA RETENTION AS WE WORK THROUGH OUR RFP FOR, UM, PROCUREMENT FOR A VENDOR, WE'RE LOOKING TO TRY TO [01:35:01] REDUCE THE DATA RETENTION PERIOD AS MUCH AS WE CAN, BUT THAT'S INDUSTRY STANDARD AT THIS TIME. UM, AS FAR AS RETAINING IT FOR 30 DAYS. BUT WHERE IS IT RETAINED WITHIN THE STORAGE OR THE VENDOR, IF I MAY, OF THE VENDOR OR OF US? IT'S RETAINED IN THE CLOUD BY THE VENDOR AND YOU CAN ONLY BUY A CLOUD-BASED SYSTEM. YOU CAN MAINTAIN YOUR OWN SERVERS, WHICH IS QUITE COSTLY, AND THEN YOU WOULD HAVE TO REMAIN COMPLIANT WITH INDUSTRY STANDARDS AND YOU WOULD BE SUBJECT TO A BREACH OF YOUR OWN. UM, IT'S SOMETHING YOU CAN DEFINITELY LOOK AT, BUT IT'S VERY, VERY EXPENSIVE. WHAT IS VERY, VERY EXPENSIVE MEAN? UM, I WOULD HAVE TO GET BACK TO YOU WITH AN EXACT NUMBER, BUT IT INVOLVES H HOUSING YOUR OWN SERVERS IN A COLD ROOM. SO THEY MAINTAIN A CERTAIN TEMPERATURE AND IT DEPENDS ON THE NUMBER OF SERVERS THAT YOU WOULD NEED. DATA CENTER, SMALL DATA CENTER. OKAY. GO AHEAD. AND JUST TO, YOU ASKED ABOUT THE 30 DAYS. UM, IN, IN REGARDS TO CITATIONS AND APPEALS, UH, IT TAKES ABOUT 20 DAYS. UH, WE HAVE TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE DATA, THE, THE, THE CITATION DATA, UH, THAT IS ISSUED, UH, FOR APPEALS, UH, WITH THAT PROGRAM. OKAY. SO AS YOU RECALL WITH THE OTHER LICENSE PLATE READERS THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, THE COMPANY WAS HERE AND TOLD US THEY DIDN'T SHARE THE DATA WITH ANYBODY AND WE FOUND OUT THAT WAS NOT CORRECT. HE WANTED TO TALK SERIOUS TALKING TO ME. UH, THAT FOR HELP THAT YOU'LL NEED TO TURN ON LOCATION SERVICES, SIRI, I DUNNO. I CAN HELP WITH THAT. YOU TURNED ON PRECISE LOCATION. I DUNNO WHY THAT'S HAPPENING. UH, AND IT TURNED OUT THAT IT WAS NOT CORRECT, WAS NOT AN ACCURATE STATEMENT. SO HOW DO, HOW CAN YOU ENSURE US THAT THE CO THE COMPANIES THAT I GUESS WE HAVEN'T PICKED A SOLUTION YET, RIGHT? CORRECT. THAT THE COMPANIES WHO WOULD RESPOND TO OUR RFP WOULD HOLD, YOU KNOW, WOULD, WOULD HOLD THE, OUR DATA EXCLUSIVELY FOR OUR USE AND NOT SHARE IT WITH ANYBODY ELSE. IT WOULD BE PART OF THE CONTRACT AND OF COURSE IF THEY BREACHED THAT THEY'D BE IN BREACH OF CONTRACT. WELL, OKAY. DIDN'T SEEM TO WORK WITH THE OTHER COMPANY. THE THE OTHER THING I WOULD THROW IN THERE WITH THIS IS WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO REDUCE THE DATA RETENTION PERIOD IS ON THE NON, UM, YOU MIGHT SAY CITATION SIDE OF THIS PROCESS, IF A PERSON PARKS AND THEY'RE ISSUED A CITATION, THAT'S WHERE LIKELY WE WOULD NEED TO RETAIN THE INFORMATION FOR UP TO 30 DAYS. IF THEY DON'T END UP WITH ANY KIND OF VIOLATION. WE'RE TRYING TO REDUCE THE DATA RETENTION PERIOD DOWN AS MUCH AS WE CAN. UM, THAT'S, THERE'S NO REAL INDUSTRY STANDARD FOR THAT AT THIS TIME. AND THAT'S WHY IT'S A, SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO WORK THROUGH THROUGH THE PROCUREMENT PROCESS STILL. SO IT, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DEFINITIVELY NAIL DOWN AT THIS POINT, BUT IT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT WE'RE WORKING ON THROUGH THAT PROCUREMENT PROCESS. WE ARE, YEAH, WE'RE IN AN ACTIVE PROCUREMENT PROCESS RIGHT NOW. SO WE DID ISSUE AN ADDENDUM AND ASKED FOR THIS INFORMATION IF THE DATA COULD BE SEPARATED WITH ALERT AND CITATION DATA BEING RETAINED. BUT THOSE OTHERS, AS ANDY INDICATED, WOULD HAVE A LESSER AMOUNT OF TIME. AND WHAT IS THAT MINIMAL TIME? THAT'S WHAT OUR CORRECT REQUEST IS, AND WE'LL HAVE MORE INFORMATION, UH, HOPEFULLY IN THE NEXT WEEK OR TWO. AND 'CAUSE WHEN YOU BRING IT BACK TO US FOR APPROVAL, WE'RE NEED TO KNOW THIS AND ALL THESE SYSTEMS OPERATE EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, OR YOU DON'T KNOW THAT YET. WE WON'T KNOW UNTIL WE RECEIVE THE VENDOR RESPONSES. UM, BUT ARE THERE COMPANIES OUT THERE THAT WOULD LOVE TO SELL THE DATA? OF COURSE, , BUT THE ONES THAT WE WANT WOULD BE WILLING TO ADHERE TO THE POLICY THAT YOU PUT IN PLACE. I THINK THAT'S GONNA BE REALLY IMPORTANT. ALL THIS WOULD BE GUIDED BY THE POLICY AND ADDRESSED THROUGH, UH, SELECTION AS WELL AS EVALUATION AND THROUGH CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS TO SPECIFY WHAT EXACTLY WE'D LIKE. THE DATA [01:40:01] POLICY THOUGH, DOES PROVIDE US GUIDANCE AND, UH, A MEANS SO THEY'RE AWARE OF WHAT OUR REQUIREMENTS AND EXPECTATIONS ARE. OKAY, THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS SUBJECT? SPECIFIC? RIGHT. OKAY, GO AHEAD. OKAY, THANK YOU. WITH THIS INFORMATION ON HOW WE WILL USE ACCESS AND RETAIN DATA, I'M GONNA MOVE TO FOCUS AREA TWO, WHICH IS, WHICH IS OUR RESIDENTIAL PERMIT PARKING STAFF IS PROPOSING CREATING A RESIDENTIAL PERMIT PARKING FRAMEWORK, UH, FOR UPTOWN NEIGHBORHOOD ZONE IDENTIFIED IN THE RED BOX. THE STREETS ARE ON SMITH WILSON, VANDER, AND PRICE BETWEEN SNUBBY AND FOREST ROADS. WE ARE NOT PROPOSING AN AUTOMATIC IMPLEMENTATION, BUT A READINESS MODEL. SO THE INTENT WOULD BE TO HAVE AN ESTABLISHED APPROACH THAT IS AVAILABLE IF NEIGHBORHOOD IMPACTS OCCUR, RATHER THAN DEVELOPING ONE REACTIVELY. EXHIBIT B OUTLINES THE PRINCIPLES GUIDING HOW THAT FRAMEWORK WOULD OPERATE. THAT'S EXHIBIT B IN YOUR PACKAGES AND MATERIAL. AND THIS FRAMEWORK POLICY EMPHASIZES EQUITY, FLEXIBILITY, TRANSPARENCY, AND ADMINISTRATIVE SIMPLICITY. VIRTUAL RESIDENTIAL PERMITS WOULD BE PROPOSED AT NO COST AT THIS TIME, AND THE SYSTEM IS VIRTUAL TO MINIMIZE BURDEN, FLEXIBILITY FOR OUR RESIDENTS, GUESTS, CAREGIVERS, AND SERVICE PROVIDERS WOULD BE INCORPORATED. THIS IS JUST A FRAMEWORK THAT WE'VE DRAFTED, UH, AND WE'VE ALSO SPENT SIGNIFICANT TIME GATHERING PUBLIC INPUT AND FEEDBACK. AND THE NEXT SLIDE, OUR PUBLIC FEEDBACK REFLECTED A RANGE OF VIEWS AMONGST RESIDENTS. THERE IS A CONDITIONAL SUPPORT WITH RESERVATIONS. UH, THERE IS A STRONG PREFERENCE ON AVOIDING PREEMPTIVE ACTIVATION, AND RESIDENTS HAVE EMPHASIZED MAINTAINING NEIGHBORHOOD ACCESS AND FLEXIBILITY. THE BUSINESSES THAT WERE INCLUDED IN THIS SURVEY CONSISTENTLY RAISED EMPLOYEE PARKING AS A PRIMARY CONCERN. IF THESE NEIGHBORHOOD STREETS WERE TO BE RESTRICTED TO ONLY RESIDENTS IN THIS AREA, BASED ON THAT INPUT, HERE'S HOW THE FRAMEWORK WOULD MOVE FORWARD. AND WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR CONSIDERATION IS THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO REFINE THE FRAMEWORK AND A PROGRAM OVER THE COMING MONTHS AS WE RECEIVE INPUT AND FEEDBACK FROM OUR NEWLY ESTABLISHED PARKING WORK GROUP. AND IF COUNCIL DIRECT STAFF TO PROCEED WITH IMPLEMENTATION, WE WOULD THEN RETURN WITH THE OPTIONS AND INPUT THAT WAS DISCUSSED WITH THE PARKING WORK GROUP AND A STAFF RECOMMENDATION. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS, CHARLOTTE THEN? PETE, WHY DO YOU NOT HAVE MESQUITE, EXCUSE ME, INCLUDED, UH, AMONG THE STREETS THAT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO A PARKING PERMIT, BUT THE STREETS THAT YOU HAVE ARE ALL PARALLEL STREETS. I THINK IT'D BE THE CROSS SECTIONS WITHIN THOSE STREETS AS WELL, CORRECT? WELL, I BELIEVE WHAT WE'RE SAYING, I THINK MESQUITE IS IN THE, IN THAT ZONE POTENTIAL SPILLOVER AREA. YEAH. AND MOSQUITO DOESN'T MATTER THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT ALREADY. SO IT'S NOT IN THE INITIAL AREA THAT WE'RE TARGETING FOR A FULL IMPLEMENTATION IF AND WHEN WE'RE DIRECTED TO DO SO. BUT IT IS AN AREA THAT WE'RE KEEPING TRACK OF TO QUICKLY BE ABLE TO EXPAND TO IF SPILLOVER OCCURS. IT ALREADY HAS, UH, EMPLOYEE PARKING AND I DON'T KNOW WHO ELSE TOURIST PARKING THERE. I CANNOT IMAGINE THAT IT WOULD NOT HAVE SPILLOVER IF THE OTHER STREETS AROUND IT ARE RESTRICTED. UM, ARE RESTRICTED. I JUST CAN'T IMAGINE. AND IT JUST SEEMS LIKE, I MEAN, YOU ARE FORCING WELL, IT'S, IT IS DEFINITELY GONNA HAVE SPILLOVER . OKAY. THAT'S GOOD FEEDBACK. WE APPRECIATE THAT. AND WE'LL TAKE THAT BACK TO THE WORK GROUP. IT WAS, I IT WAS IDENTIFIED IN OUR BLUE ZONE. IT'S NOT LABELED, YOU CAN'T SEE THE STREET NAMES, BUT AT THE VERY TOP WHERE, UM, MUNICIPAL LOT FIVE IS WOULD BE SNOBBY. BELOW THAT WOULD BE APPLE, RIGHT? THAT WOULD BE MESQUITE. SO MESQUITE GOES THAT CROSS SECTION RIGHT THERE. BELOW APPLE IS MESQUITE. MM-HMM . YES, I KNOW WHERE MESQUITE IS. YEAH. NO, NO, SHE LIVES, LIVES ON MESQUITE. LIVES ON. I KNOW, BUT I WAS ANSWERING THE QUESTION WHY WASN'T MESQUITE INVOLVED? IT, THIS CROSS SECTION IS INVOLVED. I THINK SHE'S REFERRING TO US, BUT JUST NAMING THE GOT IT. YOU'RE NAMING YOU'VE NAMED THE STREETS, BUT YOU DON'T NAME MESQUITE. I MEAN, I JUST THINK IT'S A LITTLE, DO WE HAVE UNCLEAR THAT SHOWS THE SPILL OVER? I DON'T HAVE THAT RIGHT NOW. OKAY. I, I WOULD JUST SUGGEST THAT MESQUITE BE INCLUDED. OKAY. AND HOW ARE, [01:45:01] IT WOULD BE, THIS WOULD BE, UM, OPERATIONALIZED ON ONE OF THE SLIDES SAID WITH DOCUMENTED, UM, WHATEVER IMPACTS ARE DOCUMENTED. HOW WOULD YOU BE LOOKING FOR THOSE IMPACTS? ARE YOU WAITING FOR PEOPLE TO EMAIL YOU OR ARE YOU WAITING FOR? I THINK WE WOULD OBSERVE THAT THROUGH WHEN THE GARAGE OPENED. IF THERE WERE IMPACTS TO THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS THROUGH OBSERVATION, WE WOULD MAKE SURE THAT WE WOULD, WE WOULD CHECK ON THAT AS WELL AS IF WE HEAR FEEDBACK FROM THE NEIGHBORS. SO, AND I, I THINK THIS GOT CLARIFIED, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE. SO MESQUITE IS IN THE ZONE. WE JUST DIDN'T SPECIFICALLY CALL IT OUT. YEAH. AS ONE OF THE STREETS THAT'S IN THE ZONE. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. WE WILL. MM-HMM . OKAY. PETE, THANKS. THANK YOU MAYOR. THANKS AMBER. AND, AND DAVID FOR YOUR, AND NATALIE FOR YOUR WORK ON THIS. UH, I FOR 1:00 AM REALLY PLEASED THAT WE'RE MAKING SOME PROGRESS HERE PER THE PRIOR COUNCIL DIRECTION ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT THIS STUFF IS MOVING, YOU KNOW, WHILE WE'RE DOING THE GARAGE, I WANTED TO ASK A QUESTION ABOUT, IT GETS TO RIGHT. A QUESTION THAT I LIKE TO ASK MYSELF A LOT IS THAT WHAT PROBLEM IS IT THAT WE'RE SOLVING FOR AND WHETHER THE WORK GROUP IS, HAS OR WILL BE ATTACKING THAT PROBLEM. REALLY LOOKING AT WHERE THE COMPLAINTS ARE, WHAT THE PARKING ENFORCEMENT HAS BEEN, WHAT THE ACCIDENT DATA MAY LOOK LIKE. YOU KNOW, IT IS THE WORK GROUP GONNA ATTACK IT AT THAT LEVEL, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND REALLY WHAT WE'RE SOLVING FOR HERE. YEAH, WE, WE ALREADY HAVE, UH, DATA THAT WILL BE PART OF THE CONSIDERATION, BUT YEAH, WE'LL CONTINUE TO COLLECT MORE AND INCLUDE THAT WITH OUR, WITH OUR CONSIDERATIONS. YEAH. GREAT. YEAH, I'LL BE, YOU KNOW, REALLY INTERESTED IN SORT OF SEEING THE PRESENTATION, AB AB ABOUT THAT WHEN THE WORK GROUP HAS FINISHED ITS WORK AS TO WHAT REALLY WE'RE GOING AFTER HERE AND WHY THE SOLUTION WE PICKED IS GONNA FIX IT. BUT, AND WE'RE JUST STARTING OUR FIRST PARKING WORK GROUP, AND I WAS GONNA DISCUSS THAT LATER, BUT WE JUST KICKED OFF THE GROUP, UH, LAST WEEK. SO WE'RE REALLY READY TO, THEY'RE READY TO ROLL UP THEIR SLEEVES. WE'RE RECEIVING INPUT AND IDEAS ALREADY. AND, UH, THIS RPP WAS ONE THAT WE WERE GONNA START WORKING ON TOMORROW, WHICH IS OUR NEXT MEETING. GREAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY, MELISSA. SO ONE OF THE OTHER ITEMS, UM, I KNOW IS TONY'S NO LONGER BACK IN THE JURY BOX, BUT, UM, ONE OF THE OTHER ITEMS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT WITH THE GARAGE WAS THE CFA, UM, FOR UPTOWN, WHICH GOT POSTPONED. UM, I UNDERSTAND AFTER I MENTIONED IT LAST TIME, THAT C MANAGER SAID, WE DO HAVE A NEW PRODUCT PLANNER WHO COULD BE ENGAGED IN SUCH AN ACTIVITY. IT SEEMS TO ME THIS SHOULD BE COORDINATED, UM, THIS PARKING ON RESIDENTIAL STREETS, PLUS WHAT ELSE ARE WE GOING TO DO THAT'S UP THERE, UH, TO HELP IMPROVE WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE, THE MOBILITY OR, UM, GREEN SPACE, UH, FOR COMMUNITY OR WHATEVER IT IS THAT WE'RE PLANNING ON DOING UP THERE? IT SEEMS TO ME THIS SHOULD ALL BE COORDINATED. SO I'M HOPING THAT I'M JUST, OH, TONY'S BACK. UM, SO I'M HOPING TONY IS GOING TO, UH, TAKE THAT UNDER ADVISEMENT, AT LEAST FROM ME, THAT WE REALLY SHOULD BE LOOKING AT SORT OF THE WHOLE TOTALITY HERE AND NOT SOLVE FOR ONE PROBLEM. AND THEN SUDDENLY WHEN WE START TO SOLVE FOR OTHER ISSUES, WE WANNA IMPROVE UP THERE, WE FIND THAT WE HAVE A PROBLEM, RIGHT? WE'VE CO WE'VE, I'M SORRY, I'M GONNA USE OLD SCHOOL. WE'VE CODED OURSELF INTO A CORNER AND, UM, CAN'T GET OUT. SO I'D REALLY, OH, I GUESS YOU GUYS WOULD JUST PAINTED YOURSELF INTO A CORNER. SO, UM, I JUST WANTED TO KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S BEEN THOUGHT OF OR WHAT'S, WHAT MIGHT BE GOING ON IN THAT CORNER, TONY'S BACK. SO AS IT AS IT RELATES TO, AND SO FOR EXAMPLE, WE'RE WORKING, WE'RE GETTING READY TO START BACK UP THE UPTOWN, UM, COMMUNITY FOCUS AREA AS AN EXAMPLE. AND SO EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, I THINK WE HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR A HOLISTIC APPROACH TO LOOK AT A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT ISSUES AND LOOK AT THEM TOGETHER SO THAT, YOU KNOW, AS IT RELATES TO PARKING, AS IT RELATES TO URBAN DESIGN, AS IT RELATES TO LAND USE, ALL OF THESE THINGS, BUSINESS SUPPORT, YOU NAME IT. UM, IS THIS ONE BETTER? MM-HMM . OH, AWESOME. THANK YOU. UM, SO YEAH, SO FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, WE ARE THINKING GLOBALLY IN TERMS OF WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. SAME THING WITH THE BALANCED HOUSING STUDY, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT IT FROM THE SAME PERSPECTIVE. AND ALL OF THAT'S [01:50:01] GONNA LEAD BACK TO HOW WE REFLECT OUR CODES, HOW WE REFLECT OUR POLICIES, ET CETERA. SO THANK YOU. CERTAINLY. SO AMBER, YOU SAID WE HAVE NO INTENTION OF CHARGING FOR PERMITS AT THIS TIME. I, I THINK IT, WE SHOULD CLARIFY TO YOU THAT THERE WAS NEVER A TIME WHEN THE COUNCIL WAS INTERESTED IN CHARGING FOR PERMITS, SHOULD IT BE IMPLEMENTED EVER. AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO SAY BECAUSE MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY HAVE MADE ASSUMPTIONS THAT IT'S, IT IS GONNA BE PAID. SO, UH, WE DO NOT INTEND TO CHARGE. CAN I MAKE A CLARIFICATION ON SOME OF THE MISUNDERSTANDING OUT THERE? THERE'S AN EXISTING RESIDENT PERMIT PARKING ZONE IN REM SHADOWS, AND THAT'S, THAT'S MANAGED BY THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION THERE. PART OF THE PROCESS BETWEEN THE CITY AND THE HOA IS THAT PLACARDS ARE GIVEN OUT. THEY'RE USED FOR THE PERMIT FOR EACH VEHICLE, BUT IF THERE'S A REPLACEMENT NEEDED, THERE'S A CHARGE FOR THAT. THE INTENT IS WHEN THERE ARE PHYSICAL PLACARDS, WHICH THIS PROGRAM MAY OR MAY NOT INCLUDE, WE DON'T KNOW THAT YET, BUT A PERSON TENDS TO BE, UM, I GUESS UNLUCKY IN BEING ABLE TO HOLD ONTO THEIR PLACARD AT SOME POINT. THE CITY WANTS TO BE ABLE TO RECOUP, RECOUP THE COST FOR THAT. THAT'S NOT A CHARGE FOR THE PROGRAM. IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A REC REPLACEMENT RECUPERATION OF THE COST OF THAT PHYSICAL PLACARD. THOSE ARE KIND OF TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, BUT THERE'S A MISCONCEPTION OUT THERE THAT THAT'S IN ESSENCE CHARGING FOR THE PROGRAM. SO I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT. AND THATS, I ADDED THAT LINE BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN RECEIVING FEEDBACK ABOUT WHAT THE CHARGES WOULD BE, AND SURELY YOU'RE GOING TO CHARGE, OR THE, AS THE PROGRAM CONTINUES, YOU'RE GOING TO REASSESS AND WE ARE TRYING TO BE AS TRANSPARENT THAT RIGHT NOW WE'RE NOT RECOMMENDING ANY FEES. AND WITH YOUR, WITH YOUR DIRECTION, I THINK WE CAN CLEARLY STATE THAT. IS THAT OUR DIRECTION? IS THAT OUR DIRECTION? YEAH. OKAY. SO YOU'VE GOT SEVEN PEOPLE SAYING C CAN I MAKE THE DISTINCTION? I, YEAH, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, DOES COUNCIL SUPPORT THE IDEA OF REPLACEMENT OF PHYSICAL PLACARDS? IF WE UTILIZE THAT AS PART OF THE PROGRAM, THAT EXCESSIVE, UH, REPLACEMENT OF THOSE PLACARDS WOULD COME WITH A CHARGE. WELL, MAYBE. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE DOING AT, AT RIM SHADOWS RIGHT NOW IS JUST, AND IT'S LISTED ON THE BACK OF THE HANG TAG, IT WOULD JUST BE FOR A PHYSICAL REPLACEMENT OF A TAG. BUT I THOUGHT UNDER THIS PROPOSAL THERE WAS NOT A PHYSICAL PLACARD TO BE REPLACED OR LOST OR CHARGED FOR AS, AS A WORK GROUP. WE HAVEN'T, UH, I GUESS DECIDED IF THAT'S A RECOMMENDATION YET. THERE ARE IDEAS THAT PRIMARILY IT WOULD BE BASED ON A DIGITAL PLACARD, BUT FOR THOSE THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SEVERAL YEAH. SCENARIOS FROM, YOU KNOW, GUESTS TO, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THEIR VENDORS THAT MAY BE VISITING THEIR PROPERTY OR A SPECIAL EVENT OR WHATEVER. THERE MAY BE, MAY BE A NEED FOR A PHY, A PHYSICAL PLACARD TO BE ABLE TO FILL A, A QUICK NEED FOR, YOU KNOW, A PERMIT. I AG I AGREE AND ACTUALLY FELT THAT THERE NEEDED TO BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD MAKE IT EASY THAT I HAVE A PHYSICAL PLACARD TO RIGHT. GIVE TO A, A GUEST THAT'S COMING OR SOMETHING. BUT I WANTED TO BE CLEAR THAT GENERALLY THERE ARE NOT PLACARDS INVOLVED, YOU KNOW, SO THAT THE EXTENSIVE COSTS INVOLVED IN REPLACING PLACARDS SHOULDN'T BE DOMINANT IN THIS. THERE ARE ALSO, THERE, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF MODELS IN TERMS OF RESIDENTS USE VIRTUAL, THEN THEY HAVE A PHYSICAL HAND TAG TO SHARE WITH GUESTS. UH, THOSE ARE GOING TO BE SOME OF THE DISCUSSION POINTS AND INPUT, UH, AS WE WORK WITH THE PARKING WORK GROUP. JUST AS A REMINDER AS WELL, THERE WILL BE CERTAIN PROPERTIES WITHIN THIS ZONE THAT MAY HAVE A HIGH TURNOVER RATE OF NEEDING TO CHANGE OUT THEIR INFORMATION FOR THEIR PERMITS IF THEY'RE GIVEN A PHYSICAL PLACARD AND THEY TEND TO NEED THAT REPLACED A LOT. I THINK WE WANT TO HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY OF BEING ABLE TO CHARGE FOR THAT. SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT DISTINCTION. I THINK WE WOULD NEED TO SEE A PROPOSAL AND A FEE BASED AND HOW THAT WOULD OPERATE, BUT RIGHT. WE DON'T INTEND TO CHARGE TO ENTER THE PROGRAM. RIGHT, RIGHT. OKAY. MAKES SENSE. OKAY, MAYOR, [01:55:01] MY COMMENT WAS JUST GONNA BE THE FEE NEEDS TO BE JUST FOR THE REPLACEMENT, NOT A PUNITIVE, OH, YOU LOST YOUR CAR NOW WE'RE GONNA, NO, YOU'RE PAYING FOR THE LITTLE PIECE OF PLASTIC AND THE ADMINISTRATIVE COST FOR SOMEBODY TO ISSUE THE NEW ONE. I MEAN, I EXPECT IT WOULD BE NOMINAL. CURRENTLY THE REPLACEMENT COST THAT'S OCCURRING IN RIM SHADOWS IS $15. 15. MM-HMM . IT'S AN OLD NEIGHBORHOOD. SO YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO'VE LIVED THERE FOR A LONG TIME. RIGHT. MAYBE ON FIXED INCOME IS $15 IS A LOT OF MONEY. CHARLOTTE, I, I COULD ALSO SEE A MISUSE, LET'S SAY SHORT TERM RENTAL OWNER LOSES AND LOSES AND LOSES AND THEY'RE REALLY JUST ACCUMULATING. UM, SO THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME DISINCENTIVE. I, I BELIEVE. OKAY, AMBER, I'M GONNA MOVE TO FOCUS AREA THREE, WHICH IS PARKING OPTIMIZATION. AND SINCE OUR 2023 PARKING ANALYSIS WITH KIMLEY HORNE UPTOWN HAS LOST PUBLIC PARKING SUPPLY, UH, WHICH HAS INCREASED PRESSURE DURING PEAK PERIODS. THIS LOSS IS ATTRIBUTED TO THE SALE OF 4 0 1 JORDAN, WHICH HAD 70 SPACES, WHICH WE NO LONGER HAVE, UH, SOLD TO SEDONA FIRE DISTRICT. AND THERE WILL BE THE SELLING OF LOT EIGHT, WHICH IS RIGHT ACROSS FROM THE GARAGE. UH, AND THAT IS A LOSS OF 23 SPACES. AND CURRENTLY WE'RE STAGING IN THAT PARTICULAR LOT FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE GARAGE. WHEN WE PUT THE GARAGE ONLINE, IT WILL HELP OFFSET THAT LOSS, BUT ADDITIONAL STRATEGIES WILL NEED TO BE LOOKED AT, INCLUDING EMPLOYEE PARKING, UH, STRATEGIES, AS WELL AS SOLUTIONS WHICH COULD IMPROVE THAT SUPPLY. AND THIS, THESE ARE SOME OF THE UP UPCOMING CHALLENGES WE HAVE WITH WORKING WITH EMPLOYEE PARKING SOLUTIONS. SO LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. FOR THE PUBLIC WHO'S VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THESE DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THE SYSTEM, HOW WOULD YOU ENCOURAGE THEM TO GET INVOLVED? SO YOU HAVE A WORK GROUP, CAN THEY ATTEND THE MEETINGS? YES, THEY CAN ATTEND, THEY CAN OBSERVE. AND IS THAT, UH, IS THERE, UH, A SCHEDULE THAT'S EASILY OBTAINABLE? I WOULD SAY THE BEST WAY TO COORDINATE THAT WOULD BE THROUGH EITHER AMBER OR DAVID AS FAR AS THE SCHEDULE'S KIND OF SET ONE OR TWO MEETINGS AHEAD OF TIME AT EACH MEETING, SO WE DON'T PROJECT OUT TOO FAR. BUT IF SOMEONE WANTED TO CON CONTACT THESE GUYS, UM, THEY COULD COORDINATE THAT. WE'VE ALREADY BEEN CONTACTED BY ONE INDIVIDUAL WHO OBSERVED AT THE LAST ONE OF OUR RESIDENTS, AND PEOPLE ARE FREE TO CONTACT DAVID OR MYSELF. WE HAVE TRIED TO SCHEDULE AT LEAST TWO OUT, AND WE WILL DO THAT TOMORROW AS WELL AS WE ESTABLISH FUTURE MEETINGS. BUT ANYONE CAN OBSERVE AND, UH, YOU KNOW, REACH OUT AND ASK QUESTIONS. YOU HAVE A, A SPECIFIC, UH, AREA ON THE WEBSITE. UM, WE, WE DO HAVE A PARKING PAGE. WE HAVE A PARKING PAGE, BUT IT'S REALLY NOT SET UP TO, UM, YOU KNOW, KIND OF OVERSEE THIS AREA NECESSARILY. WE COULD LOOK INTO THAT IF COUNSEL WOULD LIKE TO DEVELOP SOMETHING FURTHER AS FAR AS INFORMATION SPECIFIC TO THIS PROGRAM, AT LEAST TO MAKE IT, MAKE IT, UM, EASY FOR FOLKS TO KNOW WHO TO CONTACT. YEAH. AND WE COULD ADD THAT LOOK INTO THAT, LIKE UPCOMING MEETINGS OR NOTICES AS WE, AS WE'VE UPDATED THE PARKING PAGE WITH PROGRESS, I THINK ON THE GARAGE WE COULD PROBABLY DO THAT WITH OUR SURE. OUR PARKING MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES. SO LET'S TALK ABOUT FOCUS AREA FOUR, WHICH AD ADDRESSES ONE OF OUR BIGGEST CONTRIBUTORS TO OUR PEAK DEMAND, AND THAT'S EMPLOYEE PARKING AND EMPLOYEE PARKING ACCOUNTS FOR A SIGNIFICANT SHARE OF OUR PEAK PERIOD DEMAND IN THE UPTOWN. UH, ADDRESSING EMPLOYEE PARKING IS ONE OF THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAYS TO REDUCE PRESSURE IN THE UPTOWN CORE AND ALSO, UH, TRY TO BALANCE THAT SUPPLY OPTIONS SUCH AS LEASED OR EMPLOYEE ONLY AREAS AND POSSIBLE TRANSIT AND CIRCULATOR CONNECTIONS TO PERIMETER PARKING AREAS ARE BEING EVALUATED IN COORDINATION WITH BUSINESSES AND THROUGH THE PARKING WORK GROUP AS THEY ARE PROVIDING FEEDBACK. THIS, UH, IS SCHEDULED TO BE DISCUSSED, NOT AT THIS UPCOMING MEETING, BUT ON FEBRUARY 18TH. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS? OKAY, SO THE FINAL FOCUS [02:00:01] AREA BUILDS ON ALL OF THIS, AND THAT IS OUR PARKING FEES AND FEE STRUCTURE. WE'RE REFERENCE EXHIBIT C, WHICH IS A PARKING FEE STRUCTURE, UH, KIND OF FRAMEWORK. UH, WE'RE PRESENTING IT AS A POLICY FRAMEWORK AND SOME GUIDANCE, UH, THAT WE'RE ALSO SHARING WITH OUR PARKING WORK GROUP. UH, WHAT YOU SEE IN FRONT OF YOU IS NOT SPECIFIC RATES, BUT THAT OUR PARKING FEE STRUCTURES ARE INTENDED TO MANAGE DEMAND AND SUPPORT ACCESS AND THE FEES GENERATED FROM PARKING WILL FUND OUR PROGRAM OPERATIONS, FUND DEBT SERVICE AND MAINTENANCE AND REPAIRS. WE WILL BE, WE WILL TAKE CONSIDERATIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS THAT ARE DISCUSSED THROUGH THE PARKING WORKING GROUP AND SPECIFIC FEE RECOMMENDATIONS. ALONG WITH THIS INPUT, WE'LL RETURN TO COUNCIL FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL AND CONSIDERATION. ANY QUESTIONS? I HAVE A QUESTION. OKAY. ARE YOU, UM, ARE YOU INTENDING BEYOND 89 A I THINK WE, WE TALKED ABOUT JORDAN ROAD. WE DID. WE PUT IN PUBLIC THAT WE DO, RIGHT? WE MOVED THEM, RIGHT? YES. SO ARE THERE ANY OTHER STREETS WHERE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE PAID PARKING? WE HAVEN'T. WE ACTUALLY PLAN TO DISCUSS THAT, BUT, UH, WE HAVEN'T DEVELOPED A OKAY. RECOMMENDATION ON THAT YET. DEREK, ARE YOU GONNA CONSIDER DIFFERENT OPTIONS, YOU KNOW, A MONTHLY PASS, UH, HOURLY ONLY? ARE YOU GONNA LOOK AT ALL THE DIFFERENT WAYS YOU COULD POTENTIALLY FUND THAT? THOSE SCENARIOS WILL BE WORKED WITH AND WE'LL PROVIDE THOSE TO THE, THE WORK GROUP AT, UH, FOR INPUT AND, UH, LOOK TOWARDS SOME SCENARIOS THAT WE CAN PROVIDE TO YOU ALL FOR CONSIDERATION. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. CHARLOTTE, COULD YOU REFRESH MY MEMORY ON HOW THE PARKING GARAGE IS SUPPOSED TO BE PAID FOR? YOU KNOW, THE, THE INITIALLY I THOUGHT IT WAS UNDERSTOOD THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE, UM, SELF-FUNDED. THAT IS THROUGH SOME SORT OF FEES, NOT GONNA JUST BE GENERAL FUND PAYMENTS FOR THE DEBT SERVICE. RIGHT. THE, THE INTENT FOR THE, THIS PARKING PROGRAM IS THAT IT OPERATE AS AN ENTERPRISE FUND. SO IN OTHER WORDS, EXPENSES FOR PARKING GET PAID FROM PARKING REVENUE. WE HAVEN'T DOVE INTO THAT IN A LOT OF DETAIL YET, BUT OUR ANTICIPATION IS FOR THE OVERALL PARKING REVENUE THAT WE'RE LIKELY TO DEVELOP FIRST, UM, FEES WILL, YOU KNOW, OFFSET UH, DEBT, DEBT SERVICE OF THE GARAGE STRUCTURE. BUT WE BELIEVE THERE WILL BE SURPLUS REVENUE THAT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO PROGRAM FUNDING FOR IMPROVEMENTS IN THE UPTOWN AREA. UM, YOU KNOW, OUTSIDE OF THE GARAGE FOR SURE. WASN'T THE PARKING METER REVENUE SUPPOSED TO CONTRIBUTE ALSO? YES. AND ABOUT HOW MUCH IS THAT PER YEAR? HALF A MILLION OR SO? UH, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, IT'S AROUND 300,000 OR SO PER YEAR. IT'S ABOUT 450. IS IT 436,000? I THINK? I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE IT'S 4 56. YEAH. OKAY. I WASN'T REMEMBERING CORRECTLY. AND THE DEBT SERVICES, HOW MUCH? SO, UH, I MEAN, I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S THE GAP HERE THAT'S GOTTA GET FILLED SOMEHOW? WELL, ONE, ONE THING TO CONSIDER HERE IS AS WE DEVELOP THE PRICING STRUCTURE, WE DON'T THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO HAVE ONLY THE REVENUE FROM THE GARAGE PAY THE DEBT SERVICE FOR THE GARAGE, BUT TO LOOK AT ADDITIONAL PARKING REVENUE FROM OTHER, UM, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT'S STREET PARKING OR ANOTHER LOT OR WHATEVER THE CASE, BUT TO ALLOW THE FLEXIBILITY OF HOW THE PROGRAM WAS SUPPOSED TO OPERATE. AND PRIMARILY THE GARAGE IS INTENDED TO BE ONE OF THE PRIMARY LOCATIONS THAT WERE DRIVING PARKING TO. AND FOR THAT, THE PRICING IS CRITICAL THAT WE GET THE PRICE POINT CORRECT MM-HMM . SO THAT, THAT WORKS THE WAY IT'S INTENDED TO. SO YES, WE INTEND FOR THE, THE PARKING DEBT, OR I'M SORRY, THE, THE DEBT FOR THE PARKING GARAGE TO BE PAID FOR FROM PARKING REVENUE. BUT THE INTENT WAS NOT BY MORE MAJORITY COUNCIL DIRECTION THAT ONLY THE GARAGE REVENUE PAY FOR GARAGE DEBT. I HOPE, I HOPE THAT MAKES SENSE. [02:05:01] SO IF I CAN JUMP IN FOR A SECOND. WHEN WE GO THROUGH AGAIN IN THE BUDGET, WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE PARKING FUND AND WITHIN THAT COUNSELOR HUSSEI, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE, YOU KNOW, OUR PROJECTED, UM, PARKING REVENUE, UM, WHAT EXPENSES WE'RE PROPOSING TO ALLOCATE INTO THAT FUND, HOW, HOW THE DEBT SERVICE WORKS, ALL THE THINGS YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT. AND AS YOU KNOW, IT HAS TO BE A BALANCED FUND. AND WHEN WE DO THE BUDGET ADOPTION, SO WE WILL WORK THROUGH ALL OF THE PARTICULARS OF THE MATH TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER FEE STRUCTURE IS RECOMMENDED TO YOU ALL COMBINED WITH OUR, WHAT WE KNOW FOR SURE OUR HARD EXPENSES RELATED TO PARKING, THAT WE CAN, UH, MAKE ALL THAT BALANCE. MM-HMM . THAT'LL ALL BE LOOKED AT WHEN WE RUN THOSE REVENUES OR THE SCENARIOS ON THE FEES. OKAY, THANKS. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, MELISSA? SO I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS BASED ON, UM, THE POLICY THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, INSIDE OF THE, UM, PACKET. SO ONE OF THEM IS ON PACKET PAGE 56 AND IT SAYS, ANY DATA SHARING WITH OUTSIDE AGENCIES PEREN, INCLUDING ICE, C-B-P-D-H-S-D-P-S, OR LOCAL POLICE AND PEREN. I'M JUST WONDERING IF THIS COULD BE REWORDED TO INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO. UM, SINCE I CAN'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE AND I WOULDN'T WANT THIS TO LOOK LIKE IT IS A SET SPECIFIC LIST, BUT RATHER IT'S A LIST THAT WE CAN ADD TO OR SUBTRACT FROM. WE COULD, WE COULD ADD CRIMINAL JUSTICE DATABASES, WHICH MIGHT COVER THAT, OR WE CAN, WE CAN WORK WITH KURT ON PROPER, TERMINATE THE, THE TERMS FOR THAT. YEAH, I THAT'S FINE. ELSEWHERE IN THE DOCUMENT YOU USED THE TERM INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO. AND SO IT JUST FELT LIKE IF YOU COULD JUST REPEAT THAT THERE, THEN WE'RE NOT LIMITING OURSELVES ONLY TO THOSE PARTICULAR AGENCIES TODAY AND TOMORROW WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. OR THERE MIGHT BE OTHER THINGS WE DISCOVER THAT WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE DATA IS NOT SHARED. I APPRECIATE THAT AND WE'LL ADD THAT TO THAT POLICY. UM, SO A QUESTION ON USING LICENSE PLATES FOR PARKING IS, IS A PRETTY OLD AND COMMON APPROACH. UM, WHETHER YOU PUT IT IN THROUGH AN APP OR YOU, YOU PUT IT INTO A KIOSK, YOU USUALLY PUT IN YOUR LICENSE PLATE WITH THE LICENSE PLATE READERS. UM, SOME STATES LIKE ARIZONA ONLY HAVE A BACK PLATE. THEY DON'T HAVE A FRONT PLATE. SO IT WOULD BE REALLY GOOD TO KNOW ONCE YOU KNOW MORE, WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE DOING ANYTHING ABOUT READING FRONT PLATES OR ONLY THE REAR PLATE. 'CAUSE IF YOU'RE ONLY READING THE REAR PLATE, YOU CANNOT DO FACIAL RECOGNITION 'CAUSE THERE'S NO FACES. BUT IF YOU'RE DOING FRONT PLATE READING, THEN YOU CAN PICK UP FACES. SO I JUST, WE KNOW THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT FACIAL RECOGNITION BEING USED. IT WOULD BE ONE WAY FOR US TO SAY THERE ISN'T ACTUALLY ANY WAY FOR US TO DO FACIAL RECOGNITION. UM, SO I JUST WANTED TO SORT OF YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. UM, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THOSE COMMENTS. UM, ALTHOUGH WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED THE PROPOSALS BACK YET, THAT IS INDUSTRY STANDARD. UM, THERE ARE CERTAIN STATES THAT REQUIRE FRONT PLATE, CALIFORNIA BEING ONE OF THEM, BUT WITH, UM, THE IDEA THAT ARIZONA DOES NOT REQUIRE A FRONT PLATE, I WOULD IMAGINE THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE PROPOSALS THAT WE GET BACK WILL BE BACK PLATE DRIVEN. SO TO YOUR POINT, FACIAL RECOGNITION WOULD NOT EVEN BE A CONSIDERATION UNDER THAT. OKAY, THANK YOU. UM, ON PACKAGE IS STILL ON PAGE 58, THERE'S A STATEMENT, UM, THE SYSTEM MUST MAINTAIN LOGS, DOCUMENTING ACCESS TO DATA WITH, AND THEN USER IDENTITY IS USED IN THERE, BUT THIS ISN'T REALLY TRULY USER IDENTITY. THIS IS ACTUALLY VEHICLE IDENTITY. YES. OKAY. SO I THINK WE NEED TO BE CLEAR IN OUR LANGUAGE THERE AS TO WHAT THIS REFERS TO BECAUSE THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A USER'S IDENTITY AND A VEHICLE'S IDENTITY. WHICH SECTION WAS THAT IN? I HAVE MINE BY THE PAGE NUMBER OF THE POLICY. HANG ON ONE SECOND. LET'S SEE. UM, YEAH, THE HEADING UNDER, SEE, I I DIDN'T DO THAT. YOU SEE? OH, I'M SORRY. THAT'S OKAY. WE CAN, WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AND JUST MAKE SURE. YEAH, I JUST, I JUST WROTE DOWN THE PACKET NUMBERS THAT THEY WERE ON. OH, IT'S ON AUDIT LOGS OR ARE YOU ON AUDIT LOGS WITH USER IDENTITY? UH, YEAH, THAT IS, THAT IS WITH, WITH THE USERS. THAT WOULD BE AN AUDIT LOG OF USERS [02:10:02] THAT HAVE ACCESSED OUR SYSTEM. WE CAN GO BACK IN AND LOOK TO SEE WHO OF THE AUTHORIZED PERSONNEL. IS THAT, IS THAT THE ONE YOU'RE REFERENCING? NO, I, I'LL HAVE TO GO BACK AND FIND YOU THE EXACT PLACE 'CAUSE I JUST PUT DOWN THE PAGE NUMBER, UM, PACKET PAGE NUMBER, SO I'LL GET BACK TO YOU. THAT'S ON ME. I, I APOLOGIZE BECAUSE WE DO REFERENCE USER IDENTITY AND WE'LL CHECK TO ENSURE THAT IF IT'S VEHICLE IDENTITY VERSUS USER IDENTITY, THIS IS IN TERMS OF THE AUDIT LOGS THAT WE'RE WORKING, THAT WE HAVE ACCESS TO THE AUDIT LOGS SO WE KNOW WHO IS ACCESSING THE SYSTEM AND WHEN, UM, BUT AUDIT LOGS ALSO CONTAIN INFORMATION. SO THE QUESTION IS WHAT'S INSIDE THE LOG? UM, THIS MIGHT BE MORE FOR KURT. UM, THERE'S A STATEMENT THAT SAYS THE VENDOR MUST NOTIFY THE CITY IMMEDIATELY UPON RECEIPT OF ANY SUBPOENA OR WARRANT UNLESS LEGALLY PROHIBITED. WHEN WOULD THIS BE LEGALLY PROHIBITED? UH, MAYOR AND COUNCIL? THERE COULD BE TIMES WHEN, UH, THROUGH A COURT ORDER, UM, THERE'S, UH, LIKE A, A GAG, UH, ORDER IN PLACE WHERE YOU, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO LET THE SUBJECT KNOW THAT THEY'RE BEING, THEIR DATA'S BEING REQUESTED. OKAY. AND SINCE WE ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW WHO THE USER IS, IT'S JUST A VEHICLE THAT THE, THE CHANCES OF THIS ARE PRETTY SLIM. I I WOULD AGREE IT'S SLIM, BUT YEAH, I MEAN, THAT'S A POSSIBILITY. SURE. UM, , SO THIS GOES BACK TO SHORT TERM RENTALS ACTUALLY, UH, ON, UH, THE PACKET PAGE, YOU HAVE 62, YOU HAVE VIRTUAL RESIDENTIAL PERMITS WILL BE PROVIDED AT NO COST TO ELIGIBLE RESIDENTS IN THIS CASE. TO WHOM DOES THE RESIDENT REFER AS THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY, UM, VERSUS A PROPERTY MANAGER? UM, IT JUST FEELS LIKE WITH SHORT-TERM RENTALS RESIDENT MAY BE A LITTLE UNCLEAR. I'M STARING AT KURT. I KNOW, UH, I BE, IT WOULD BE THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY, UH, WHO COULD DESIGNATE SOMEONE ELSE INCLUDING THEIR EMERGENCY CONTACT OR THEIR PROPERTY MANAGER, BUT IT'D BE THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY PRIMARILY. THANK YOU. UM, I, I HAVE THIS, THIS IS PROBABLY, AGAIN, IT'S JUST FOR CLARITY ON MY, MY SAKE. UM, YOU ALSO HAVE A STATEMENT THAT SEDONA POLICE DEPARTMENT FORCES, UM, DOES THIS NEED TO BE A SWORN OFFICER OR CAN, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S TCA OR TSA, BUT CAN ONE OF THE NON-SWORN OFFICERS, SORRY, TISSUE TICKETS AND STUFF, I DIDN'T MEAN TO START ANSWERING THAT JUST YET. YOU, YOU WERE NODDING YOUR HEADSET IMMEDIATELY WENT OVER IT'S, LOOK AT YOU. IT'S, IT'S REALLY, YEAH, I'LL LET YOU. PARKING ENFORCEMENT CURRENTLY IS PRIMARILY THE RESPONSIBLE OF OUR COMMUNITY SERVICE OFFICERS AND IT WOULD CONTINUE THAT WAY THROUGH THE GARAGE. OKAY. AND THIS, THIS ALSO WAS, UM, SO THIS WOULD BE ANY OF OUR PARKING ENFORCEMENT CORRECT. INCLUDING RESIDENTIAL, SHOULD THAT EVER BE ENACTED? YEP, THAT'S, IT WAS ONE OF THEIR PRIMARY DETAILS, YES. OKAY. GREAT. THANK YOU. THOSE ARE MY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? AND I CAN, I'LL CONTINUE WITH GIVING YOU A LITTLE BIT OF INFORMATION FROM THE PARKING WORKER. OKAY. SO AS WE'VE DISCUSSED, A LOT OF THIS IS, UH, GOING TO BE LOOKED AT AND WE'RE GONNA GET IDEAS AND FEEDBACK FROM THE PARKING WORK GROUP. AND THE PARKING WORK GROUP IS ADVISORY IN NATURE. THE ROLE IS FOR THEM TO PROVIDE INPUT ON EMPLOYEE PARKING FEE CONCEPTS, UH, UPTOWN RESIDENTIAL PARKING PERMITS AND SYSTEM COORDINATION BEFORE STAFF BRINGS RECOMMENDATIONS TO COUNCIL. UH, THE SELECTED GROUP IS COMPRISED OF BUSINESSES AS RESIDENTS IN THE UPTOWN. AND THE FOLLOWING SLIDE SHOWS THE MAKEUP OF THAT GROUP. THE GROUP HAS FIVE RESIDENTS FROM THE UPTOWN AND FIVE BUSINESS REPRESENTATIVES IN THE UPTOWN AND GALLERY ROW. THEY WERE SELECTED TO WORK WITH CITY STAFF AND OUR PARKING CONSULTANT ON THESE TOPICS, UH, RELATED TO OUR SEDONA PARKING PROGRAM. THE NEXT SLIDE DISCUSSES THE PURPOSE AND THE TASKS, AND AS I TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, SOME OF THE TOPICS THAT THEY'RE FOCUSED ON, THE EMPLOYEE PARKING FEE SCENARIOS, RESIDENTIAL PERMIT COORDINATION, AND DISCUSSION. UH, TO PROVIDE INPUT ON WHICH WE'LL BE DISCUSSING TOMORROW AND PROVIDE, UH, WE'LL PROVIDE THEM UPDATES WITH TECHNOLOGY ROLLOUTS, PARTICULARLY AS WE IMPLEMENT THE PILOT IN THE GARAGE AND OTHER MANAGED LOTS. THEIR FEEDBACK WILL HELP REFINE OPTIONS AND HELP STAFF WITH IDENTIFYING RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WILL COME TO YOU FOR CONSIDERATION. WE HELD OUR FIRST KICKOFF MEETING LAST WEDNESDAY. IT WAS A BRIEF OVERVIEW, UH, OF PARKING MANAGEMENT IN SEDONA ON OUR FIVE FOCUS AREAS. UH, THERE WERE A LOT OF CONSTRUCTIVE IDEAS [02:15:01] AND QUESTIONS THAT THEY RAISED, UH, THAT WE HAVE SEEN THROUGHOUT THE WEEK. AND, UH, WE HAVE OUR NEXT MEETING TOMORROW ON JANUARY 28TH, AND OUR TOPICS ARE GONNA BE RESIDENTIAL PARKING AND PROBABLY SOME FEE STRUCTURES WITH EMPLOYEE PARKING. WE'RE GONNA MOVE PROBABLY TO FEBRUARY 18TH, SO WITH SOME INPUT AND SEE HOW, HOW WE CAN GET THROUGH OUR TOPICS. THOSE TOPICS MAY CHANGE A LITTLE, BUT WE'LL BE PROVIDING, UH, THE, THE MEMBERS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE DIRECTION AND ALSO INPUT ON WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS. I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT FOR THE PUBLIC THAT ONE OF THE MEMBERS, AT LEAST ONE OF THE MEMBERS ON THE RESIDENT SIDE, IS SOMEBODY WHO WAS HEAVILY INVOLVED IN THE, UH, THE LICENSE PLATE, THE FLOCK CAMERA, LICENSE PLATE READER, A OPPOSED TO IT. UH, AND HE IS NOW A MEMBER OF THIS WORK GROUP. SO I THINK WE CAN BE ASSURED THAT CONCERNS ABOUT THE CAMERAS ARE GOING TO BE ADDRESSED AND BROUGHT UP, AND THAT, UM, THIS IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO REPEAT THE FLOCK CAMERA FIASCO. THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO GET IN FRONT OF IT AND TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF THE CONCERNS THAT WERE EXPRESSED FOR THAT PROJECT ARE DEALT WITH IN THIS PROJECT, AND THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTIVELY OPPOSED TO THAT PROJECT HAVE A VOICE IN THIS PROJECT. AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL ENSURE, AND I'M SURE THEY WILL, KNOWING THE PERSON THAT ALL THOSE ISSUES ARE ADDRESSED. AND WE DID PROVIDE, UH, THE, THE PARKING WORK GROUP MEMBER WITH A DRAFT POLICY. HE DID LOOK AT IT AND DID PROVIDE HIS SUPPORT, AND HE DID SHARE IT WITH OTHER MEMBERS OF THE GROUP THAT HE WORKED WITH PREVIOUSLY. AND WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY NOTIFICATION OTHER THAN FROM THE PARKING WORK GROUP MEMBER THAT HE DOES SUPPORT IT. HE UNDERSTANDS IT, AND HE ADDRESSED THE ISSUES. HE HAD A CONCERN ABOUT SHARING WITH THIRD PARTIES. UH, WE INDICATED IT WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THE CONTRACT AND JUST NOT A LINK TO CRIMINAL JUSTICE DATABASES. AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO REFINE THIS BECAUSE NONE OF THIS IS BAKED YET. IT'S CORRECT. IT'S NOT EVEN IN THE OVEN, IT'S IN THE PAN . THE INGREDIENTS ARE BEING PUT INTO THE PAN, SO THOSE INGREDIENTS CAN BE ADDED TO, COULD BE REMOVED. AND THAT'S WHY I'M ENCOURAGING ANYBODY WHO IS CONCERNED TO CONTACT THE MEMBERS OF THE GROUP TO COME TO THE MEETINGS AND OBSERVE THE GROUP TO CONTACT YOU AND TO PROVIDE THEIR INPUT BECAUSE WE ARE ACCEPTING ALL INPUT. THAT'S, KATHY, COULD YOU GO BACK ONE SLIDE PLEASE? SO ON YOUR, YOUR TOPICS FOR THE WORK GROUP SCOPE, UM, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, BECAUSE I'M ASSUMING THAT THIS IS GOING ON, BUT NEVER ASSUME, RIGHT. UH, THE DISCUSSION REGARDING COORDINATION WITH TRANSIT IS A PART OF EVERY ASPECT AND CONVERSATION THAT COMES UP. IS THAT CORRECT? YES, IT IS. AND IN FACT, MARK BROOK IS ALSO A MEMBER OF OUR TRANSIT ADVISORY COMMITTEE, AND HE IS BRINGING THAT UP IN DISCUSSION IN THE FIRST MEETING, AND I'M SURE HE WILL IN THE, THE FOLLOWING ONES AS WELL. MM-HMM . THANK YOU. SO ARE THERE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS THEN? UM, I'M JUST GOING TO PROVIDE A BRIEF SUMMARY OF WHAT COUNCIL IS BEING ASKED TO CONSIDER. UH, THE INFORMATION BEFORE YOU AND PRESENTED TONIGHT WAS ABOUT DEVELOPING OUR COORDINATED PARKING PROGRAM AHEAD OF THE GARAGE OPENING. UH, IT ASSISTS WITH ESTABLISHING POLICY DIRECTION, CLARIFIES HOW OUR TECHNOLOGY AND DATA WILL BE USED AND OUTLINES OPTIONS THE CITY MAY CONSIDER IN THE FUTURE. TONIGHT WE'RE ASKING COUNCIL TO CONFIRM THE DATA GOVERNANCE PRINCIPLES OR PROVIDE DIRECTION ON THOSE APPROVE A READINESS FIRST APPROACH WITH THE UPTOWN RPP AS WE CONTINUE TO BUILD THE FRAMEWORK WITH THE PUBLIC WORKING GROUP AND PROVIDE DIRECTION AND INPUT ON THE POLICY FRAMEWORKS IN FRONT OF YOU ALL TODAY. UH, FUTURE ACTIONS WILL RETURN ALONG WITH THE PARKING WORK GROUP INPUT AND STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS AS WE CONTINUE THE PROCESS. MAYOR, [02:20:01] GO AHEAD. THANK YOU, MAYOR AMBER, I JUST WANNA ASK ABOUT THAT FIRST BULLET, THE WORD CONFIRM. WHAT DOES THAT REALLY MEAN? BECAUSE YOU THEN ALSO SAID DIRECTION HAS THE WORKING. DID THE WORKING GROUP IN THE FIRST MEETING LOOK AT THE POLICIES AND GO OVER THEM? WE DID PROVIDE THE DATA GOVERNANCE POLICY. WE DID NOT GO OVER THE OTHER POLICY FRAMEWORKS. AND SO WHAT, WHAT'S YOUR INTENT ABOUT THAT WORD? CONFIRM HERE. I THINK WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS WHILE WE REFINE AND LOOK AT OUR DATA GOVERNANCE POLICIES, I THINK WE WOULD REALLY LIKE TO HAVE SOME, SOME CONFIRMATION FROM COUNCIL OR SOME DIRECTION ON THE USE OF LICENSE PLATE RECOGNITION IN OUR PARKING. I'LL LET ANDY DO, I I JUST WANTED TO JUMP IN REAL QUICK TO SAY THIS HAS A BEARING ON OUR PROCUREMENT PROCESS THAT WE'RE UNDER RIGHT NOW. AND THIS IS REALLY THE MOST TIME CRITICAL THING THAT, THAT WE HAVE GOING ON RIGHT NOW. IN ORDER FOR US TO KEEP MOVING THIS FORWARD AS FAR AS THE PROGRAM, WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO SELECT THE TECHNOLOGY. WE'VE ALREADY BEEN WORKING ON HOW TO IMPLEMENT THAT INTO THE GARAGE. WE'RE WORKING ON TRYING TO GET A PILOT PROGRAM SET UP SO THAT WE CAN INFORM WHAT OTHER AREAS OF UPTOWN WE MIGHT WANT TO, UH, IMPLEMENT THIS TECHNOLOGY IN AND WHICH AREAS WE MAY NOT. IN ORDER TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT WE NEED TO KNOW IF COUNCIL DOES NOT SUPPORT BEING ABLE TO USE THIS NEW TECHNOLOGY, BECAUSE IT WOULD, IT WOULD CHANGE OUR WHOLE PROCUREMENT PROCESS. OKAY. SO LET ME JUST ASK, UH, THAT WE'RE NOT ASKING COUNCIL TO APPROVE THE POLICIES TONIGHT, RIGHT? WE ARE JUST SAYING WHETHER DIRECTIONALLY IT'S OKAY COUNSEL, OR IT'S REALLY THE PRINCIPAL DONE HAD SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT POLICY AND SO I'M ASSUMING WE'LL SEE IT AGAIN. YEAH. BUT YOU'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER DIRECTIONALLY IT SEEMS TO BE GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, AND THEN MAYBE SOME MORE SPECIFIC CONVERSATION ABOUT THE USE OF LPRS. YES. YES. AND, AND I WOULD SAY THE KEY WORD THERE AT THE END OF THAT, THAT BULLET LINE IS PRINCIPLES ARE OUR PRINCIPLES IN THAT POLICY. WHAT COUNSEL IS WILLING TO SUPPORT OR NOT. THAT'S REALLY THE KEY. THANK YOU. OKAY. THE SECOND BULLET POINT, APPROVE READINESS FIRST APPROACH IN UPTOWN RESIDENT PARKING PROGRAM OR PERMIT PROGRAM. CLEARLY YOU WANT TO DELAY THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS TILL AFTER THE GARAGE IS OPERATIONAL. I'M, I'M NOT SURE WHAT READINESS FIRST APPROACH MEANS, BECAUSE WHEN I THINK IT'S READY, YOU MAY NOT THINK IT'S READY, ET CETERA. SO I I COULD HELP MAYBE CLARIFY THAT TOO, IN ORDER TO BE READY TO IMPLEMENT THAT. AS SOON AS COUNCIL FEELS LIKE IT'S TIME TO IMPLEMENT THIS, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR CODE IS, UM, WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE TO SUPPORT, YOU KNOW, IMPLEMENTATION AS WELL AS GET DRAFT FORMS READY OF RESOLUTION AND ORDINANCE THAT ESTABLISHES THIS PERMIT AREA. THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE DID WHEN WE CREATED THE RIM SHADOWS PERMIT AREA. SO WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS, WE KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IN ADDITION TO THOSE FORMS, WE ALSO NEED TO BE ABLE TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WHAT DOES THE SIGNING LOOK LIKE? WHAT DOES THE STRIPING LOOK LIKE? ANY PHYSICAL CHANGES THAT ARE NEEDED WITHIN THAT ZONE, WE'LL HAVE PLANS PUT TOGETHER THAT, THAT DETAIL OUT WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. AGAIN, WE ALSO DID THAT IN THE RIM SHADOWS AREA. JUST AS, AS AN EXAMPLE, BEFORE WE CREATED THAT FIRST RESIDENT, UH, PERMIT PARKING AREA, THE CITY HAD ONLY CREATED FULL NO PARKING ZONES, NOT PERMIT PARKING RESTRICTED ZONES. AND THE SIGNING AND STRIPING FOR THAT LOOKED COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE CREATED FOR REM SHADOWS. WE'RE USING THAT AS SORT OF A, A STARTING POINT TO BUILD ON, BUT WE NEED TO REFINE THAT DOWN TO ALL THE DETAIL OF WHAT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY, IM IMPLEMENT THE PROGRAM. SO HAVING THOSE PLANS AS WELL AS THE ORDINANCE AND RESOLUTION, THOSE ARE THE MAIN COMPONENTS TO THAT. BUT THROUGH OUR WORK GROUP, WE'RE GONNA DIVE IN TOMORROW AND, AND NAIL DOWN A LOT OF DETAILS INTO WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE [02:25:01] FROM ONE SIDE OF THAT SECTION TO THE OTHER. YOU GO FROM FULLY RESIDENTIAL TO A TRANSITION ZONE TO COMMERCIAL. DOES THE THAT FULL ZONE LOOK THE SAME? PROBABLY NOT, BUT WE'RE GONNA FIGURE THAT OUT AND COME BACK TO COUNCIL WITH EXACTLY WHAT ALL OF THAT LOOKS LIKE. AND I, I THINK OUR VISION IS BEFORE THE GARAGE IS OPEN, WE COME BACK AND GIVE COUNSEL WHAT THE WORK GROUP HAS COME UP WITH FOR ALL OF THESE DETAILS. AND COUNSEL KNOWS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE AND IS, IS READY TO SUPPORT IT IF AND WHEN THE COMMUNITY FEELS LIKE IT'S TIME TO GO AHEAD AND IMPLEMENT . DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? IT ANSWERS THE QUESTION, AM I SATISFIED WITH IT? NOT REALLY, BUT , I MEAN, I I IT'S A LOT OF UPFRONT WORK THAT POSSIBLY WOULD NEVER BE USED. I REALIZE THAT. UM, BUT I DON'T, I THINK I SAW SOMEWHERE IN HERE A ROLLOUT OF IT MAYBE IN THE FALL. AND I'M THINKING, WHY DOES THERE NEED TO BE SUCH A DELAY IN TIME IF, IF THERE'S AN APPARENT NEED? AND, AND, AND REALLY WE PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE SAID THAT IT COULD OCCUR AS EARLY AS WHEN THE GARAGE IS IS OPERATIONAL. SO SOMETIME BETWEEN THEN, WHICH WE'RE PROJECTING TO BE JUNE MM-HMM . TO A COUPLE MONTHS LATER, ONE OF THE CHALLENGING THINGS THERE IS WE WON'T BE IN PEAK VISITATION SEASON AT THAT POINT. SO WILL THE DRIVING FORCE BEHIND NEEDING THAT TO BE IMPLEMENTED OCCUR AS THE GARAGE OPENS? PROBABLY NOT, BUT WE DON'T KNOW THAT FOR SURE EITHER. WELL, IF THE EMPLOYEE, UM, PARKING ASPECT IS NOT SETTLED BY THEN RIGHT. THE STORES ARE GONNA STILL BE OPEN, THE EMPLOYEES WILL BE THERE. YEAH. AND THEY'LL RIGHT. AND YOU KNOW, I I THINK, UM, WE CAN SPEAK FURTHER TO THIS IF YOU'D LIKE, BUT TYPICALLY IN OTHER AREAS OF THE COUNTRY WHERE THEY HAVE THESE PERMIT SYSTEMS, THEY'RE USUALLY DRIVEN BY THE RESIDENTS ASKING FOR IT TO BE IMPLEMENTED. I THINK COUNCIL WANTING TO BE AHEAD OF THE ISSUE AND BE PROACTIVE WAS GOOD DIRECTION AND, AND THINKING, YOU KNOW, VERY, VERY WELL ON THE SUBJECT. BUT UNTIL THEIR SUPPORT, THAT'S WHERE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IS. WE PROBABLY DON'T NEED TO IMPLEMENT UNTIL COUNCIL FEELS LIKE THEY HAVE THAT SUPPORT TO GO AHEAD AND, AND IMPLEMENT THE PROGRAM. AND SO, OH, GO ON. YOU KNOW, SORRY, THERE WAS NO, I SHOULDN'T SAY NO. THERE WAS LIMITED SUPPORT BY THE RESIDENTS FOR A GARAGE AND WE BUILT IT BECAUSE OF THE GREATER GOOD OF THE COMMUNITY. CORRECT. SO IS THIS A CHANGE? WELL, I WOULD SAY THE DIFFERENCE HERE IS WE'RE TRYING TO HELP A SPECIFIC AREA OF THE COMMUNITY. IT'S NOT, THE RPP PROGRAM FOR UPTOWN IS REALLY TARGETED. IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT NECESSARILY HELPS THE OVERALL COMMUNITY. IT'S, IT'S AN IMPACT. THAT ADDITIONAL DEMAND FOR PARKING POTENTIALLY SPILLING OVER FROM THE ADJACENT FACILITY IS, IS REALLY WHAT WE'RE TARGETING HERE. AND THAT'S A VERY ISOLATED SPECIFIC TARGET AREA. SO I WAS TALKING TO A BUSINESS OWNER IN, UP, IN, IN THOSE IMPACTED AREAS WHO HAS A PARKING LOT IN, IN WHICH THEY CHARGE FOR PARKING. AND WHAT I WAS TOLD IS FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE, THIS IS HOW IT WORKS. PEOPLE PARK ON VAN DEEN FIRST, AND WHEN IT FILLS UP, THEY GO TO WILSON AND THEN THEY GO TO SMITH. AND AFTER THEY CAN'T PARK IN E ANY OF THOSE STREETS, THEY GO TO THE PAID PARKING ONLY. AFTER ALL THE PARKING IS USED UP, WILL THEY GO AND PAY FOR IT? SO WHY WOULD WE THINK IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE PAID PARKING IN THE GARAGE, THAT PEOPLE WOULDN'T DO THE SAME THING? LIKE, LIKE I SAID BEFORE, I THINK THE INTENT TO BE PROACTIVE ON THIS WAS GOOD. AND I THINK I, I TEND TO AGREE WITH YOUR LINE OF THINKING HERE. UM, HOWEVER, THERE'S A GROUP OF FOLKS IN THIS ZONE THAT FEEL LIKE THEY DON'T WANT TO IMPLEMENT THIS UNTIL THEY SEE THAT THERE'S AN ISSUE. THAT'S, THAT'S THE FEEDBACK THAT WE'VE GOTTEN. SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE DON'T THINK THERE'S AN ISSUE NOW, AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THAT'S EVEN POSSIBLE. [02:30:01] BUT, AND I THINK ONE OF THE REASONS TO UTILIZE THE PARKING WORK GROUP, AND WE'RE ALSO HEARING THAT THEY WANT MORE INFORMATION AND TO HELP THEM DEVELOPMENT TO DEVELOP A BETTER KNOWLEDGE BASE ON SOME OF THE IMPACTS AND KIND OF ASSESS THE SITUATION. MM-HMM . I THINK IT'S GONNA BE BENEFICIAL FOR THE PARKING WORK GROUP TO LOOK AT THESE, THESE, THESE AREAS. PARTICULARLY WE HAVE NATASHA HERE TOO AND IS GONNA BE WORKING WITH US TOMORROW TO KIND OF TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE ISSUES INVOLVED WITH RESIDENTIAL PARKING PERMITS, OTHER MODELS. UM, WE FOLKS HAVE BROUGHT UP, UH, FLAGSTAFF. AND FLAGSTAFF HAS SOME REALLY STRICT RULES IN TERMS OF NEIGHBORS HAVE TO BRING PETITIONS WITH A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OR THAT THEY WOULD TAKE TO COUNCIL TO ASK FOR THE, THE RPP. SO WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT DIFFERENT MODELS, DIFFERENT HYBRIDS AS ANDY SUGGESTED. AND WE'VE RECEIVED COMMENTS THAT THERE'S A FEW STREETS PRICE AND VAN DAREN, THAT THERE'S NOT A LOT OF RESIDENTS ON A PORTION. SO IS THERE A MIXED HYBRID MODEL? I MEAN, THERE WAS SOME GOOD DISCUSSION DURING OUR FIRST MEETING AND WE'RE GONNA JUST KIND OF DELVE INTO THAT MORE AND PROVIDE MORE INFORMATION FOR SOME OF THE RESIDENTS. A LOT OF THESE RESIDENTS ALSO ATTENDED OUR, OUR, OUR OPEN HOUSES. UH, SO I THINK THIS'LL BUILD ON THAT. SO TRYING TO GET MORE INFORMATION TO OUR RESIDENTS IN THIS PARKING WORK GROUP AND ANYONE WHO WANTS TO OBSERVE IS REALLY BENEFICIAL IN THIS PROCESS AS WE IDENTIFY THIS AND BRING YOU BACK. RECOMMENDATIONS NATIONS, PETE, WHICH JUST LEAD. THANK YOU FOR THAT. WHICH LEADS ME TO REEMPHASIZE THE OLDER POINT HERE ABOUT THAT WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING EVEN MORE ABOUT OUR NOTIFICATION TO OUR RESIDENTS ON THE WEBSITE. EASY TO FIND ABOUT WHEN THESE MEETINGS ARE SO WE CAN GET THEM INVOLVED IN THE CONVERSATION. YOU KNOW, THERE'S A DAILY CALENDAR THAT'S ON THE FRONT PAGE OF OUR WEBSITE THAT I DON'T KNOW WHY A PARKING MEETING COULDN'T BE ONE LISTED IN THERE AS WELL. SO, UH, I I I JUST THINK THAT THIS HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE VERY, UH, ENGAGING WITH OUR RESIDENTS AND, AND, UH, AND OUR BUSINESSES AND EVERYBODY ELSE. AND WE SHOULD GIVE EVERYBODY A FAIR SHOT AT HEARING THE CONVERSATION WHILE IT'S GOING ON, NOT JUST AFTER. AND I THINK AS WE TACKLE AND LOOK AT THESE TOPICS, WE CAN'T REALLY PUT THEM IN ISOLATION BECAUSE IF YOU THEN CAN, IF YOU RESTRICT THIS AREA PARKING, WHAT DOES IT DO TO EMPLOYEE PARKING? MM-HMM . SO THIS GROUP IS REALLY GONNA TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT THOSE FACTORS ARE INCLUDED, BECAUSE IF YOU RESTRICT THE ACCESS TO THOSE STREETS WITHOUT AN WITHOUT EMPLOYEE PARKING PLAN RIGHT? OR AREAS, THEN YOU WILL SEE SOME ISSUES. AND WE WANNA WORK COLLABORATIVELY WITH THE BUSINESSES AND THE PARKING WORK GROUP ON KIND OF IDENTIFYING THIS. WELL, PERSONALLY, I, I'M, I'M NOT COMFORTABLE APPROVING READINESS FIRST, BUT I'M COMFORTABLE WITH WAITING FOR THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE GROUP. I THINK THAT'S DIFFERENT. I IS THAT CLEAR? YEAH, BUT THAT'S DISCUSSION. YEAH. WE'RE STILL IN QUESTIONS. I KNOW. SO, OKAY. IF THERE AREN'T ANY MORE QUESTIONS, I'M GONNA OPEN IT UP TO THE PUBLIC. YOU RAISED YOUR HAND BEFORE, IF YOU WANNA SPEAK, YOU CAN FILL OUT A CARD AND WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE YOU GIVE YOUR COMMENTS. THANK YOU. OKAY. TIM PERRY. GOOD EVENING, COUNSELORS. MY NAME IS TIM PERRY AND I LIVE IN SEDONA. THIS WHOLE SET OF PARKING PLANS SHOULD BE DROPPED OUT THE WINDOW RIGHT NOW FOR THE VERY SIMPLE REASON THAT THIS IS A PIECE OF SOVIET INSPIRED CENTRAL PLANNING THAT HAS NO PLACE IN A RURAL ARIZONA TOWN. IT WON'T WORK. AND EVEN IF IT DOES, THE IDEA THAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE DECIDING WHERE PEOPLE PARK IS TYRANNICAL AND LUDICROUS TO UNDERSTAND HOW THIS PLAN AND HAS GOTTEN SO FAR OUT OF CONTROL. LET'S TAKE A MOMENT TO LOOK BACK AT THE HISTORY. IT JUST SO HAPPENS THAT LAST NIGHT I HAPPENED TO BE REREADING THE 2018 TRANSPORTATION MASTER PLAN. I REALIZED SOMETHING INTERESTING. THERE'S OVER 200 MENTIONS OF PARKING IN THAT DOCUMENT. THE ONLY REFERENCE TO REMOVING PARKING IS TO POSSIBLY TAKING OUT SOME OF THE SPOTS LONG 89 A AS A PRECAUTION. IN THE EIGHT YEARS SINCE THAT PLAN WAS APPROVED, CHANGES OVER CHANGEOVERS IN COUNCIL AND STAFF HAVE GIVEN US THE REMOVAL OF HUNDREDS OF PARKING SPACES ALONG DRY CREEK ROAD, HUNDREDS MORE. WELL, THAT DRY CREEK, OF COURSE, BEING IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE FOREST SERVICE, UH, WORKING ON REMOVING SPACES ALONG RED ROCK LOOP WITH THE COUNTY, REMOVING HUNDREDS OF SPACES ON SOLDIER'S PASS ROAD, AND NOW PROPOSING TO CLOSE HUNDREDS OF SPACES IN UPTOWN [02:35:01] TO FORCE CONSOLIDATION OF PARKING AT THE GARAGE. ALL WITH THE EXPLICIT GOAL AS COUNCIL AND STAFF HAVE BEEN QUITE FRANK ON, OF FORCING THE PEOPLE OF THIS COMMUNITY TO USE THEIR TRANSIT SYSTEM AND GO WHERE THE GOVERNMENT WANTS THEM TO GO, TO HELP PEOPLE CONNECT THE DOTS. I JUST WANT TO REMIND EVERYBODY THAT A COUPLE WEEKS AGO WE HEARD COUNCIL INTERVIEW A CANDIDATE FOR THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, WHO EXPRESSED HIS ENTHUSIASM FOR DRIVERLESS CARS AND THE DAY WHEN NO ONE WOULD OWN A CAR. YOU KNOW, THOSE SOFTWARE CONTROLLED CARS. THE, THE DAY WHEN, UH, IF COUNSELOR MELISSA DUNN, FOR EXAMPLE, DECIDES THERE'S WAY TOO MUCH DUST IN THE AIR DUE TO HER PARANOIA AND HER PHOBIAS, PUSH A BUTTON, BREAK THE CAR, NOBODY GOES ANYWHERE TODAY. OR WHAT ABOUT THE DRIVERLESS CAR, WHICH IF YOU HAVE A TICKET FOR LITTERING AND THE RED ROCKS JUST TURNS AROUND AND TAKES YOU STRAIGHT TO THE COUNTY JAIL EXTREME, PERHAPS TOMORROW, OF COURSE, NOT 10 OR 20 YEARS FROM NOW. QUITE POSSIBLE BECAUSE WE KNOW WHERE YOUR MINDS ARE GOING. AND HOW DO WE KNOW THIS? BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT TRUSTWORTHY. THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF THIS COMMUNITY CAME OUT TO TELL YOU WITH ONE UNANIMOUS VOICE THAT WE DO NOT WANT LICENSE PLATE READER CAMERAS SPYING ON US IN OUR COMMUNITY. YOU AND YOUR IDIOT STAFF HAVE SOMEHOW BROUGHT THIS IDEA BACK AFTER YOU WERE TOLD NO, VERY FIRMLY. NO CAMERAS AND NO ON ANY OF THESE PARKING PLANS. JONATHAN KEATON, MAYOR, AND CASTLE. MY NAME IS JONATHAN KEATON. I LIVE IN UPTOWN SEDONA, UH, WILSON ROAD. PRECISELY. UM, I WAS HOPING TO HEAR SOME MORE COMMENTS BEFORE I MADE MINE, BUT, UM, I WAS NOT ABLE TO ATTEND LAST WEEK'S MEETING 'CAUSE I WAS IN SURGERY. BUT, UM, I HAVEN'T NOTICED THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE REQUESTING FOR THE RPP, UH, MYSELF INCLUDED. I HAVE, I DO HAVE B'S. A LOT OF MY NEIGHBORS DO. WILSON IS A NUMBER OF AIRBNBS THERE. WE HAVE A NUMBER OF AIRBNBS ON WILSON STREET IN THAT AREA. IN GENERAL, I CAN IMAGINE AS PEOPLE STAY ONE TWO NIGHTS, THEY MAY HANG THEIR PLACARD ON THE WINDSHIELD AND QUITE OFTEN THEY MAY FORGET AND RUN OFF. I DON'T THINK WE EXPECT THE AIRBNB OWNERS TO RUN OUT THERE AND SAY, EXCUSE ME, CAN I HAVE A PLAQUE BACK IF THEY LEAVE LIKE SIX IN THE MORNING. UH, I RESISTED PUTTING NO PARKING SIGNS IN FRONT AND BEHIND MY HOUSE, WHICH IS, UH, WILSON'S IN FRONT. SMITHS IN THE BACK HAD PEOPLE PARK IN FRONT AND BACK EMPLOYEES AS WELL. AND I UNDERSTAND IT'S HARD FOR THEM. THEY HAVE TO FIND EMPLOYMENT. SOME OTHER, UH, THEY HAVE TO FIND RESIDENTS OUTSIDE OF SEDONA. NOW THEY MAY HAVE TO FACE PA PARKING. I DON'T THINK THAT'S REALLY FAIR FOR THEM. UM, BY THE WAY, , I'VE COME TO SEVERAL MEETINGS. I'M REALLY IMPRESSED. YOU GUYS HAVE A TOUGH JOB. YOU KNOW, KUDOS. I WOULDN'T WANNA BE IN RECEIPTS. THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE HAPPY, A LOT OF PEOPLE AREN'T HAPPY. EVERYBODY HAS AN OPINION AND IT'S, IT VARIES. SO HAVING SAID THAT, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I SPOKE UP, BECAUSE I'M CONCERNED THAT I MAY HAVE TO GIVE MY AIRBNB GUEST PARKING PERMITS. I MAY HAVE TO TAKE, UH, KEEP TRACK OF THOSE. THEY COME AND GO FAIRLY REGULARLY. I FINALLY GAVE IN AND, AND PUT NO PARKING SIGNS ON MY STREET. DIDN'T LIKE THAT AT FIRST, BUT IT WORKS. IT BEATS GOING OUT THERE AND, EXCUSE ME, THIS IS MY HOUSE. I PREFER YOU DIDN'T PARK IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE. SOME PEOPLE PULL IN MY DRIVEWAYS. SO THE SIGNS ARE EFFECTIVE WHERE THEY'RE NOT, WHERE THEY ARE. PARKING IS WHERE THERE AREN'T ANY SIGNS. AS YOU TURN OFF, UH, FOREST AND YOU GO UP OUR STREET, WILSON, THERE'S A GREEN SIGN THAT SAYS PUBLIC PARKING UP. WILSON. YOU DRIVE UP WILSON, YOU SEE NO SIGNS EXCEPT FOR NO PARKING OR NO SIGNS. THAT SAYS NO PARKING. THAT'S WHERE PEOPLE PARK. THERE'S NO SIGNS THAT SAYS NO PARKING. YOU GO ALL THE WAY IN TO, UH, WHAT IS THAT SLING ALL THE WAY IN. THERE'S NO SAY TURN RIGHT, GO DOWN TO THE BANK WHERE THERE'S FREE PARKING. SO WHEN YOU GO UP WILSON, THE ASSUMPTION IS SOMEWHERE ON THE SIDE OF THE STREET, THERE'S FREE PARKING. THAT'S BEEN THERE EVER SINCE I'VE LIVED THERE FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS. SO THE ASSUMPTION PEOPLE COME UP THE STREET, OH, THERE'S FREE PARKING WHERE THERE WAS NO SIGN THAT SAYS NO PARKING. THAT MUST BE FREE PARKING. I THINK THAT WOULD HELP. AND I THINK THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT APPROVE THE RED READINESS FIRST APPROACH IS A LOT OF WORK GOING FORWARD. AND IT SEEMS LIKE THE IDEA IS THAT WE'RE GONNA GO AHEAD AND DO IT EVENTUALLY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. [02:40:02] MARIA GOMEZ SHOCK. AND THEN TONY HAUSMAN. I LIVE ON WILSON ROAD IN UPTOWN SEDONA. AND COULD YOU JUST SAY YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD? MARIA GOMEZ SHOCK. THANK YOU. I LIVE IN UPTOWN SEDONA. AND, UM, I'M LEARNING ABOUT THE PARKING SITUATION, WHICH IS HELPING ME LEARN BECAUSE I LIVE THERE AND GETTING MORE INVOLVED IN THE COMMUNITY. AND I DO FEEL THAT THE RESIDENTS NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE SPECIFICS IN THE MEETINGS, WHETHER IT'S ABOUT PARKING, WHETHER IT'S ABOUT THE CULTURAL PARK. I HAVE GIVEN MY EMAIL SEVERAL TIMES. I'VE GOTTEN OUT ONE EMAIL. I EMAILED THE CITY, IT TOOK THREE WEEKS FOR THEM TO GET BACK TO ME, AND THEY GOT BACK WITH A LITTLE NICETY. DIDN'T EVEN ANSWER THE QUESTION. I'M SORRY. SO IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE THE PEOPLE, THE RESIDENTS WHO LIVE HERE, GET INVOLVED WITH WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THIS TOWN. THAT IS THE BIGGEST THING. I'VE GIVEN MY EMAIL, NOT GOTTEN ONE EMAIL RESPONSE, UH, NOT GOTTEN ONE EMAIL FROM YOU GUYS. AND I HAVE, WHEN I EMAILED OUT TO YOU, IT TOOK THREE WEEKS FOR ME TO GET A RESPONSE. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. AND I GET IT. YOUR JOBS ARE HARD. AND I GET IT. WHAT'S HAPPENING? THE CITY IS GROWING. I'M FROM A BIG CITY. I UNDERSTAND THAT. HOWEVER, IT HAS, WE HAVE TO FIND SOME SORT OF A BALANCE AND THE BALANCE THAT THE, THE, WHAT WE ARE SEEING HERE IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE A SAY. WE DON'T HAVE A SAY. THE MEETINGS COME. WE, WE TALK, WE TELL YOU WHAT, YOU KNOW WHAT WE FEEL, AND THEN YOU GUYS DO WHAT YOU WANT. ANYWAY. THAT HAS TO STOP. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. AS A RESIDENT, IF YOU'RE GOING TO INCLUDE US, THEN INCLUDE US IN THE DECISION, NOT BECAUSE IT FEELS TO THE RESIDENTS THAT WE ARE BEING PLAYED. YOU'RE JUST INCLUDING US. WE COME, WE TALK, WE SAY WHATEVER WE HAVE TO SAY, AND THEN WE, WE LET THEM TALK, AND THEN WE DO WHAT WE WANT ANYWAY. SO EVENTUALLY THAT'S NOT GONNA BE GOOD FOR OUR CITY. WE ALL LIVE HERE. SO GET GET THE PEOPLE INVOLVED MORE. LET THE PEOPLE COME AND NOT JUST HERE WHEN WE WANT, YOU KNOW, IN THIS MEETING. SO, SO IF, LIKE THIS GENTLEMAN SAID, IT'S SO SIMPLE JUST TO PUT IT ON YOUR PAGE, WHEN THE MEETINGS ARE, THEN EVERYBODY WOULD KNOW. I DIDN'T KNOW THIS MEETING WAS THIS EVENING. I JUST HAPPENED TO COME WITH A FRIEND. SO THAT'S WHAT I WANNA SAY. REALLY LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE AND NOT JUST MAKE BELIEVE THAT WE'RE BEING LISTENED TO. 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT FEELS LIKE. IT FEELS LIKE WE'RE, IT'S A MAKE-BELIEVE. WE'RE NOT REALLY BEING HEARD. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, TONY. HI, MY NAME'S UH, TONY HAUSMAN. I LIVE IN UPTOWN. SEDONA. UH, I JUST WANNA START BY THANKING YOU GUYS FOR SERVING AND, UM, FOR ALL THE EFFORTS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE MADE TO INCLUDE THE RESIDENTS. I SIT ON THE COMMITTEE, UH, FOR UPTOWN PARKING. I AM A RESIDENT. I AM GIVING MY INPUT. UH, I FEEL LIKE, UM, IT IS A GOOD INTERACTIVE, UM, WAY FOR US TO BE HEARD. UH, AND NOT ONLY THAT, BUT YOU DID IT IN SUCH A WAY THAT HALF OF US ARE RESIDENTS AND HALF OF US ARE BUSINESS FOLKS. SO I FEEL LIKE, UM, THERE'S GONNA BE A, UH, GOOD MIX OF INTERESTS BEING HEARD. SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. I DO WANNA JUST PUSH BACK ONE THING THAT, UH, ANDY SAID WHEN HE TALKED ABOUT THE IMPACT BEING IN THE AREA THAT WAS, UH, MARKED RED ON THE CHART THERE. I LIVE, UH, OUTSIDE OF THAT RED AREA, BUT I DRIVE EVERY DAY UP AND DOWN SMITH AVENUE GOING TO AND FROM MY NEIGHBORHOOD. SO IT'S GONNA IMPACT EVERYBODY IN UPTOWN, NOT JUST THE PEOPLE IN THAT RED BOX. SO THE ABILITY TO CONTROL THE PARKING ON SMITH IN PARTICULAR, BUT ALSO, UH, VAN DAREN ESPECIALLY, UH, CLOSE TO FOREST, UM, IS PRIMARILY A SAFETY PROBLEM AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED. UM, I TOOK A PICTURE TODAY, UH, WHEN I WAS DRIVING TO A DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENT. THERE'S A TRUCK PARKED ON SMITH, JUST ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE HILL ON SMITH. SO AS YOU APPROACH, UM, THAT HILL, THERE'S A TRUCK BLOCKING YOUR VIEW AND FORCING YOU TO PULL OUT INTO ONCOMING TRAFFIC, WHICH YOU CANNOT SEE BECAUSE OF THE SLOPE OF THE HILL. AND THAT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME THAT I'VE EXPERIENCED THAT. DRIVING ON SMITH, SMITH IS ALREADY KIND OF A DANGEROUS ROAD BECAUSE, UH, LIMITED VISIBILITY FOR, UH, FROM ONE OF THE INTERSECTIONS AND ALSO BECAUSE OF THAT HILL. [02:45:01] AND WE NEED TO GET CARS OFF OF THAT SO THAT, UM, WE CAN AVOID THAT HAZARD. AND I'M SURE ALL OF YOU HAVE HAD THE, UH, DISPLEASURE OF WALKING ALONG VAN DAREN WITH CARS, POKED, PARKED ON BOTH SIDES, AND NO SIDEWALK AND PEOPLE DRIVING DOWN THERE CONFUSED, TRYING TO FIND A PLACE TO PARK. SO TO ME, CLEARING UP THIS PARKING ON STREET, UH, PROBLEM, UH, NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED AND YOU GUYS ARE ADDRESSING IT AND IN A SMART WAY. SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. THANK YOU, TONY. OKAY, COMMENTS. WHO WANTS TO START? BRIAN? THANK YOU, MAYOR. I'VE BEEN QUIET THIS EVENING. YOU HAVE YOU FEELING ALL RIGHT? I'M FEELING FINE. THANK YOU. DON'T BLOW IT NOW. . THANK YOU, . I'M JUST SAVING IT UP. UM, SO FIRST OFF, UM, I REALLY APPRECIATE HEARING FROM, UH, SOME NEW FACES, UH, AT THE LECTERN THIS EVENING. SO, MR. KEATON, I RECOGNIZE YOU FROM QUITE A FEW MEETINGS IN HERE OVER THE YEARS, AND IT'S ACTUALLY GOOD TO HEAR YOU GET UP AND TELL US YOUR OPINION ON SOMETHING. SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. UM, MARIA, I, I DON'T HAVE YOUR LAST NAME OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT, UM, WHEN YOU GO ON THE CITY WEBSITE, YOU CAN SIGN UP FOR A WHOLE HOST OF CATEGORIES IN WHICH YOU CAN RECEIVE EMAILS THAT NOTIFY YOU ABOUT DIFFERENT THINGS. AND I KNOW PERSONALLY, I'VE SIGNED UP FOR A NUMBER OF THOSE. SO I DO GET, UH, MULTIPLE EMAILS A MONTH. SO YOU MIGHT WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AND SEE IF MAYBE THERE'S SOME OTHER CATEGORIES THAT, UH, YOU MIGHT WANT BE GETTING INFORMATION ON. AND, UH, IF THAT IS, UM, STILL A MYSTERY TO YOU, REACH OUT TO ME AND I'LL HELP YOU. UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UM, I'D ALSO LIKE TO RESPOND TO YOU ON REGARDING, YOU KNOW, BEING HEARD AS, UH, A RESIDENT OR A BUSINESS OWNER. UH, I THINK THAT, UH, COUNCIL RECOGNIZES A DESIRE TO IMPROVE UPON THAT AS BEST WE REASONABLY CAN. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DECIDED IN OUR RETREAT IN DECEMBER IS THAT, UH, STARTING IN FISCAL 27, WE'RE GOING TO BE INCLUDING IN THE ROTATION OF OUR WEDNESDAY WORK SESSIONS MEETINGS WHERE WE GET OFFSITE AND INSTEAD OF SITTING UP HERE, WE'RE SITTING AT INDIVIDUAL TABLES AND MEETING WITH GROUPS OF RESIDENTS AND BUSINESS OWNERS ON, YOU KNOW, ONE OR TWO REALLY SPECIFIC TOPICS. ONES THAT ARE POTENTIALLY CHARGED TOPICS, RIGHT, THAT WE'RE ALL GONNA HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT. UM, AND WE'RE GONNA HAVE A SORT OF A DRY RUN OF THAT THE FIRST TIME AROUND. I BELIEVE APRIL 29 IS STILL THE PLAN FOR THAT. SO WE'RE GONNA GET ONE IN DURING THE REMAINDER OF THIS FISCAL YEAR. UH, SO STAY TUNED FOR THAT. UM, REGARDING REALLY WHAT WE'VE, UM, BEEN TALKING ABOUT HERE ON THIS TOPIC, UM, IT IS TRUE THAT COUNCIL GAVE DIRECTION ON THESE FIVE AREAS, AND ONE OF THEM WAS A, A RESIDENTIAL PERMIT PARKING PROCESS. AND THAT LIKE, DO IT, YOU KNOW, IT, IT SHOULD BE DONE. UM, AND SO I DO BELIEVE THAT HEARING FROM RESIDENTS THROUGH, UH, OUTREACH THAT'S ALREADY TAKEN PLACE, UH, WHAT WE HEARD, UH, AT THE FIRST MEETING LAST WEEK OF THE, UH, WORKING GROUP, UM, HAS PERSUADED ME TO SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT? WE DON'T NEED TO BE LAUNCHING INTO THIS, UH, RIGHT AWAY. UH, I'M OKAY WITH THIS READINESS OF FIRST APPROACH. THERE IS THE CHANCE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE MAY NOT WIND UP MAKING USE OF THE EFFORT THAT GOES INTO IT, THAT THAT IS POSSIBLE. I MEAN, IDEALLY, WOULDN'T THAT BE GREAT IF WE DID FEEL LIKE WE DIDN'T NEED TO DO THAT? SO I'M COMFORTABLE WITH, UH, PROVIDING APPROVAL FOR THAT READINESS FIRST APPROACH, UH, IN THAT REGARD. UM, REGARDING THE, UH, DATA GOVERNANCE, UH, POLICY AND PRINCIPLES FOR WHERE WE'RE AT ON THAT RIGHT NOW. LIKE, I'M OKAY WITH THAT TOO, UH, PRIMARILY BECAUSE WE DO HAVE, AS THE MAYOR, UH, MENTIONED, AN EXPERT ON DATA PRIVACY WHO HAS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED CONSIDERABLE INPUT TO COUNSEL WHEN WE, UH, WERE DEALING WITH THE WHOLE FLOCK CAMERA THING. UM, SO I'M VERY MUCH INTERESTED IN THAT RESIDENCE THAT UPTOWN RESIDENT'S, UH, OPINIONS ABOUT THE, THE DATA GOVERNANCE. AND BASED ON WHAT HE HAS SHARED THUS FAR, I'M COMFORTABLE WITH SAYING YES TO CONFIRMING, UH, THOSE PRINCIPLES FOR WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW. UM, NOT SURE WHO'S HITTING THE MICROPHONE THERE, I DON'T THINK IT'S ME. UM, I'M NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT CLEAR ON WHAT IT MEANS TO SAY, PROVIDE DIRECTION ON POLICY FRAMEWORKS [02:50:01] OR WHAT A PHASED IMPLEMENTATION EXACTLY IS. UM, SO PROBABLY COULD USE A LITTLE BIT MORE DEFINITION ON WHAT YOU'RE REALLY ASKING US TO SAY, YAY, NAY, OR DO THIS OR DO THAT. UM, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THE LAST THING IS JUST YOU'RE REALLY KIND OF JUST GIVING US WHAT TO EXPECT GOING FORWARD. SO, OKAY. BUT, UH, I COULD USE A LITTLE BIT MORE INPUT ON, UH, DIRECTION ON POLICY FRAMEWORKS AND WHAT PHASED IMPLEMENTATION IS ALL GONNA INCLUDE. I CAN PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION. WE JUST WANTED YOUR INPUT ON THOSE DRAFT FRAMEWORKS ON THE RESIDENTIAL PARKING PERMIT PROGRAM, WHAT KIND OF THE GUIDELINES ON IT THAT WE'LL WORK WITH, WITH THE, THE PARKING WORK GROUP, AND THEN ALSO THE FEE STRUCTURE FRAMEWORK POLICY THAT DOESN'T GIVE YOU SPECIFIC FEES, BUT JUST SOME GUIDING PRINCIPLES FOR US TO UTILIZE AND KIND OF REFER BACK TO, UH, YOU KNOW, MELISSA PROVIDED SOME FEEDBACK AS WELL ON SOME OF THE POLICIES. AND I THINK THAT WAS JUST A REQUEST FOR, TO PROVIDE SOME INPUT AND GUIDANCE ON THOSE. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. AND THEN LASTLY, I'LL JUST SAY, UH, HAVING SAT IN ON LAST WEEK'S KICKOFF MEETING FOR THE, UH, PARKING WORKING GROUP, UPTOWN PARKING WORKING GROUP, UM, WHAT AN ENGAGED GROUP. UM, YOU GUYS MOTORED THROUGH YOUR CONTENT GOT DONE EARLY AND, AND MANY WALKED AWAY GOING, BUT WE, WE WANNA DO MORE. WE WANNA DO MORE. SO THERE'S A LOT OF ENTHUSIASM, UH, TO REALLY DIG IN. AND I THINK TOMORROW SHOULD BE AN INTERESTING MEETING, UH, GIVING EVERYBODY THAT CHANCE TO WEIGH IN MORE CONCRETELY AS IT RELATES TO SOME OF THESE, UH, FRAMEWORKS AND, AND POLICY, UM, OPTIONS THAT WE NEED TO BE LOOKING AT. SO THANKS FOR THE WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE ON THIS THUS FAR. LOTS MORE TO GO. UH, BUT I THINK THAT'S IT FOR ME, MAYOR. THANK YOU. OKAY. THANK YOU BRIAN. PETE, THANK YOU, MAYOR. I'M REALLY NOT GONNA VARY MUCH FROM VICE MAYOR FO'S COMMENTS. HOPEFULLY I'LL USE LESS WORDS SINCE IT'S NOT A REPEAT. I JUST DID NOT REPEAT EVERYTHING. , UH, THE DATA, DATA GOVERNANCE AND POLICIES AND PRINCIPLES I'M OKAY WITH RIGHT NOW. DIRECTIONALLY OUT LI THE LICENSE PLATE READERS ARE OKAY WITH ME. THIS IS A DIFFERENT SITUATION THAN HAVING LICENSE PLATE READERS OUT ON STREETS WHERE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, ARE, ARE JUST DRIVING THROUGH THESE ARE PARKING LOTS OR PEOPLE ENTERING 'EM POSSIBLY TO PAY. AND IT'S A DIFFERENT SITUATION. SO I'M OKAY RIGHT NOW WITH THE DIRECTION THAT YOU'VE GOT THE READINESS FIRST APPROACH I'M GOOD WITH. BUT I'M GONNA COUPLE BACK TO THE COMMENTS THAT I MADE ABOUT WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE. 'CAUSE SOMETIMES WE HEAR RESIDENTS SAYING IT'S ABSOLUTELY DANGEROUS, WHICH IS SOME OF MY FEELINGS, BUT WE HAVE OTHER RESIDENTS THAT SAY, THERE'S NO PROBLEMS HERE. SO WE NEED TO TRY TO COME TO SOME AGREEMENT ON WHAT THE FACTS ARE AND WHAT THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO FIX OR NOT. UM, BUT IN THE END, IF IT ENDED UP BEING WE NEED MORE TIME, GATHER MORE DATA OR WAIT AND SEE WHAT THE CHANGES WERE, I'M OKAY WITH THAT AS LONG AS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ACTUALLY READY TO SPRING, NOT WAIT ANOTHER YEAR, UH, UH, IN IMPLEMENTING SOMETHING. UM, POLICY FRAMEWORKS, PHASE INVITATION, YEAH. UH, ALL THAT. I THINK WE'RE DIRECTIONALLY HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, SO THANK YOU. OKAY, DEREK, I'M OKAY WITH THE PLATE READERS. UM, ALTHOUGH I DO THINK WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK FOR THE, THE SURFACE LOTS AND THE GARAGE WILL BE RELATIVELY EASY, BUT IF WE ARE GOING TO USE PLATE READERS ON ANY SORT OF STREET PARKING, WE NEED TO BE VERY CLEAR ON HOW THIS STUFF'S GONNA BE SET UP. SO IT'S NOT JUST PICKING UP ANYBODY WHO HAPPENS TO DRIVE BY. UM, I DON'T WANT THIS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM TO RESEMBLE THE FLOCK SITUATION. IT'S ONE THING IF SOMEBODY VOLUNTARILY PULLS INTO A PARKING GARAGE AND, YOU KNOW, PAYS THEIR FEE, THAT'S ONE THING. BUT I DON'T WANT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T CALL IT COLLATERAL DAMAGE, BUT FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, UM, THE RADIUS FIRST APPROACH I STILL THINK IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO. UM, ALTHOUGH I'M SKEPTICAL THAT WE THINK WE PROBABLY WILL END UP HAVING TO IMPLEMENT IT. AND I WOULD SAY THAT THE WORK GROUP SHOULD LOOK AT THAT AND BE READY TO TELL US IF THEY THINK THAT'S THE WAY TO GO. MAYBE NOT. MAYBE THEY LOOK AT THIS AND SAY, FORGET READINESS FIRST, WE LOOKED AT THIS AND WE DON'T SEE ANY WAY THAT YOU'RE GONNA AVOID THE RESIDENT PARKING PROGRAM. UM, SO I CAN BE CONVINCED OTHERWISE ON THAT. I MEAN, MY INCLINATION NOW IS TO SAY, WAIT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. BUT, UH, I THINK WE HAVE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN. SO, UM, THAT'S REALLY ALL I HAVE TO SAY. THANK YOU DEREK, [02:55:02] LISA. WELL, I THINK PEOPLE PRETTY MUCH SAID EVERYTHING THAT THAT GOES. UM, YOU KNOW, I'VE, I'VE STATED MY CONCERNS AROUND I NO, I AGREE. FIRST OF ALL, GETTING THE DATA RETENTION AS LOW AS WE CAN, UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU NEED TO RETAIN IT FOR THINGS LIKE DISPUTES WITH CREDIT CARDS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, I GET THAT. BUT TO CON FOR US TO STORE MINIMAL DATA, UM, FOR A MINIMAL AMOUNT OF TIME, I, I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THAT AND THAT'S THE WAY WE SHOULD GO. I STILL AGREE. WE SHOULD MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT ARBITRARILY GETTING LICENSE PLATES, UM, FROM THE STREET PARKING, WHICH IS A MUCH HARDER SITUATION TO MANAGE THAN, UM, THE PARKING GARAGE WHERE YOU'RE GOING IN AND OUT. UM, AND I STILL BELIEVE WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN BE ABLE TO SAY WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING THAT IT, FOR THOSE WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT FACIAL RECOGNITION, THAT WE'RE COLLECTING ANY, ANY FACIAL DATA, UM, BECAUSE THAT HAS COME UP IN CONVERSATIONS WITH MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY. UM, I, THE READINESS FIRST APPROACH, UM, I'VE BACKED THIS BECAUSE I'VE HEARD PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY HOW MANY THEY REALLY ARE. I DON'T KNOW, UM, SAY THAT THEY DON'T BELIEVE IT'S GOING TO BE A REQUIREMENT. I'VE HEARD OTHER PEOPLE WHO LIVE UP THERE, UM, ONE WHO SITS RIGHT HERE WHO BELIEVES WE ALREADY HAVE A PROBLEM AND WE, WE SHOULD BE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO SOLVE IT. SO, UM, I'M HAPPY TO, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THAT'S THE WORD THAT COMES BACK THROUGH THE PARKING GROUP, UM, AND THROUGH YOUR OUTREACH AND MAYBE THE PARKING GROUP NEEDS TO GO AND DO SOME OUTREACH, UM, THEMSELVES, BE INVOLVED IN SOME, SOME KIND OF COMMUNITY OUTREACH FOR OTHER PEOPLE IN UPTOWN, UM, I'M HAPPY TO GO EITHER WAY. I BELIEVE WE NEED TO BE READY TO GO. I DON'T WANT US TO SAY, WOW, WE REALLY DO HAVE A PROBLEM. UM, A MONTH AFTER THE GARAGE OPENS. WELL, ACTUALLY THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE PROBABLY TOO SOON. BUT AS SOON AS WE GET TO OUR, OUR NEXT HIGH SEASON OR SHOULDER SEASON, WE'RE STARTING TO SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE COME IN, ESPECIALLY ON WEEKENDS, THEN SAY, OH, NOW WE HAVE A PROBLEM. SO I WOULD LOVE FOR US TO BE READY TO GO AND BE ABLE TO EXECUTE AS QUICKLY AS WE POSSIBLY CAN IN A WAY THAT THE COMMUNITY UNDERSTANDS. THAT'S WHAT IT IS WE'RE PLANNING ON DOING AND MAKING IT AS EASY AND PAINLESS AS POSSIBLE. UM, THE REST OF IT. YEP. YOU KNOW, YOU'VE HEARD MY, MY STUFF AND, UM, I AM, I'M VERY SUPPORTIVE. I HAVE BEEN SUPPORTIVE AND I CONTINUE TO BE SUPPORTIVE. SO THANK YOU FOR THE WORK YOU'VE DONE. THANK YOU TO THE PEOPLE HERE WHO ARE IN THE WORKING GROUP. UM, I THOUGHT THERE WERE A LOT OF GOOD COMMENTS. A LOT OF GOOD COMMENTS HAVE COME IN THROUGH EMAIL AND I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING MORE. I HAVE NOTHING TO ADD THAT HASN'T ALREADY BEEN SAID. OKAY, CHARLOTTE. NOR NOR DO I REALLY. UM, I JUST HOPE THAT READINESS FIRST MEANS IT IS READY. . YEAH. AND CAN I ASK A QUESTION, EVEN THOUGH THIS IS A YEAH. DISCUSSION OF COURSE. HAS THERE BEEN ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON, UH, ONE WAY STREETS UP THERE AS A COMPONENT OF ANY? SO THAT ACTUALLY WAS ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WAS IN THE 2018 TRANSPORTATION MASTER PLAN. HOWEVER, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE WANTED TO IMPLEMENT WITH THE RESIDENT PERMIT PARKING, UM, INITIATIVE, UH, RELATING TO PARKING. IT'S STILL ON OUR RADAR, BUT I THINK THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE BETTER TO CONSIDER ALONG WITH THE UPTOWN CFA BECAUSE WE'LL BE GETTING INTO WHAT THOSE BIGGER CHANGES WOULD LOOK LIKE FOR THAT AREA. AND THE ONLY REASON I'M ASKING IS ONE CAN ONLY DO MAKE SO MANY CHANGES AT A TIME. YEAH. . AND THE SIMPLER WE CAN KEEP THE PARKING AND CIRCULATION UP THERE, THE BETTER OFF WE ARE. SO I CERTAINLY AGREE WITH A PHASED APPROACH ON THAT, IF AT ALL. YEAH. OKAY. SO I GUESS I'LL SPEAK SINCE SOMEBODY HAS ANY OTHER COMMENTS. THIS IS ALL VERY DIFFERENT AND NEW TO ME, AND I REALLY WANT THE INPUT FROM THE GROUP. I DON'T WANNA SECOND GUESS THEM. I DON'T WANT TO, UH, AND I ALSO DON'T FEEL READY TO ACCEPT ALL OF THESE THINGS WITHOUT HEARING THAT INPUT. SO WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST, DON'T WAIT FOR THE NEXT PARKING UPDATE. GIVE US, UH, [03:00:01] ARE YOU TAKING MINUTES OF THESE MEETINGS? WE'RE DOING SOME ACTION ITEMS, BUT WE CAN TAKE MINUTES. I KNOW KEEGAN'S BEEN ASSISTING WITH THAT WITH US. IF YOU COULD, YOU KNOW, JUST GIVE US UPDATES ALONG THE WAY SO WE KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT AS OPPOSED TO, AND I TRUST MY COUNCIL PARTICIPANTS IN THIS WORK GROUP A LOT, SO I KNOW THAT THEY WILL PROVIDE GOOD INPUT TO THE GROUP, BUT I DON'T WANNA WAIT FOR A, YOU KNOW, UNTIL A FORMAL AGENDA ITEM TO GET THE, TO SEE HOW THINGS ARE GOING TO GET, UH, YOU KNOW, TO GET FORMAL, LIKE TO SEE WHERE THEY'RE LEANING, YOU KNOW, AS IT GOES, MAYBE I'LL COME AND OBSERVE. WE CAN PROVIDE JUST GEN SOME UPDATES ON THE PROGRESS OF THE WORK GROUP AND WHAT'S BEEN, WHAT'S BEING WORKED ON AND, AND DISCUSSION POINTS I THINK WE CAN PROVIDE THAT. I, I, WE'LL, WE'LL DISCUSS ON HOW OFTEN OR OR WHAT YOU'D LIKE TO SEE, AND WE CAN DISCUSS THAT WITH THE, THE COUNCIL COUNSELORS THAT ARE ON THE, ON THE COMMITTEE AS WELL. WELL, I'D LIKE TO SEE WHEN YOU FINISH A TOPIC, OKAY. YOU KNOW, YOU GIVE US THE UPDATES ON THAT TOPIC. BUT I, UM, I, I REALLY LIKE THE WORK GROUP THAT YOU PUT TOGETHER. I THINK IT'S A, I KNOW LIKE 90% OF THE PEOPLE AND I, I FEEL LIKE IT'S REALLY SOLID AND THAT ALL OF THE PEOPLE THAT AT LEAST THAT I KNOW ARE ONLY LOOKING FOR THE BEST INTERESTS OF BOTH THE RESIDENTS AND THE BUSINESSES AND THEY COEXIST THERE. SO I THINK YOU'RE GONNA GET SOME REALLY GOOD, UH, CREATIVE SOLUTIONS THAT WE MAY NOT EVEN HAVE CONSIDERED. SO INSTEAD OF, OF, UM, MAKING ASSUMPTIONS FOR IDEAS THAT HAVE NOT YET SURFACED TO SAY, YES, THIS IS WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING, I'D LIKE TO SEE THOSE IDEAS COME OUT, GET VETTED AND COME BACK TO US. 'CAUSE I THINK IT'S GONNA BE AN EXCELLENT, YOU KNOW, ULTIMATE PRODUCT. AND I'M NOT, I'M GONNA RESERVE JUDGMENT ON ANYTHING THAT I THOUGHT IN ADVANCE UNTIL I SEE THE RESULTS OF THAT. GREAT. WE'LL PROVIDE THOSE UPDATES WHEN WE TACKLE EACH FOCUS AREA AND PROVIDE AN UPDATE TO YOU ALL. OKAY. WE GOOD? THANK YOU. THANK YOU. WANNA TAKE A BREAK? OKAY, WE'RE GONNA TAKE A FEW MINUTE BREAK, SORRY, BUT WE'LL GET TO THE ITEM NEXT, BUT WE'RE GONNA TAKE A BREAK FOR A MINUTE OR TWO, . SO NOW I'LL JUST HANG OUT WHERE I AM. OKAY. WE'RE BACK. AND WE'RE GOING [9.d. AB 3274 Discussion/possible action regarding use of a professional survey firm to conduct an opinion poll regarding the cultural park amphitheater.] TO BE ON A D AB 32 74 DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING USE OF A PROFESSIONAL SURVEY FIRM TO CONDUCT AN OPINION POLL REGARDING THE CULTURAL PARK AMPHITHEATER. AND I DO HAVE SOME CARDS, BUT ANYBODY WHO WISHES TO SPEAK, PLEASE FILL OUT THE CARDS AND GIVE THEM TO JOANNE AT THE END OF THE TABLE. OKAY. CARRIE. OH, YOU THIS, HUH, TYLER. WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'M TYLER MAFFITT, THE CITY'S COMMUNICATIONS MANAGER. AND CARRIE MEYER IS HERE FROM PLANNING TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT MAY ARISE OVER THE COURSE OF THIS CONVERSATION. UM, SO, UH, I'M GOING TO KEEP MY COMMENTS VERY, VERY BRIEF. UH, BUT I DID WANT TO PROVIDE SOME BACKGROUND JUST FOR THE, UH, SAKE OF SETTING THE SCENE FOR THIS CONVERSATION. SO BACK DURING THE COUNCIL'S RETREAT IN DECEMBER, THE COUNCIL DIRECTED STAFF TO MOVE FORWARD, UH, WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OF A PUBLIC OPINION POLL TO GAUGE SEDONA REGISTERED VOTERS' INTEREST IN AN AMPHITHEATER AND RELATED ELEMENTS AT THE WESTERN GATEWAY LOCATION. SO, UH, THE COUNCIL ALSO REQUESTED, UM, THAT, THAT MATTER BE BROUGHT BACK AT A JANUARY MEETING, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE TALKING ABOUT NOW. SO SINCE DECEMBER, I'VE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH SEVERAL, UH, POLLING FIRMS FROM ARIZONA, THREE OF WHICH SUBMITTED, UH, BASIC PRICING AND A RECOMMENDED SCOPE OF WORK TO UNDERTAKE, UH, THAT DIRECTION. UM, IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT, UH, ALL OF THE POLLING FIRMS THAT WE, UH, TALKED TO INDICATED THAT, UH, THIS PROCESS WOULD TAKE ABOUT TWO MONTHS TOTAL, ONE MONTH TO ACTUALLY DEVELOP A POLL AND SURVEY, AND THEN ONE MONTH TO ACTUALLY CARRY IT OUT TO REACH STATISTICAL VALIDITY FOR OUR PURPOSES HERE. SO, UM, IN YOUR PACKETS, OUR DETAILS, AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AROUND THAT, BUT WHAT COUNCIL IS BEING ASKED TO CONSIDER TONIGHT SHOULD YOU DECIDE THAT THIS IS, UH, WORTH MOVING FORWARD WITH, IS TO SELECT AN OPTION WHICH WOULD INVOLVE A FIRM AND A PRICE POINT, AND THEN THE, UH, THE MONTH THAT, UH, THIS SHOULD BE CARRIED OUT IN. SO, UH, [03:05:01] WITH THAT I'LL LET THE, I'LL LET THE CONVERSATION COMMENCE. THANK YOU. OKAY. QUESTIONS, PETE. THANKS, MAYOR. THANKS TYLER FOR THAT. UM, I USE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS FOR OPTION TWO, WHICH APPEARED AT THE HIGHER END OF MY THOUGHTS AS WELL, BUT ALSO THREE. SO I'M CURIOUS WHETHER YOU COULD GIVE ME YOUR FEEDBACK ANALYSIS OF Y TWO OVER THREE. UM, SO, SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I REALLY LOOK FOR WHEN SPEAKING WITH INDIVIDUAL FIRMS IS IT'S WORKABILITY WITH STAFF. OKAY. UM, AND SO HIGH, HIGH GROUND REALLY DEMONSTRATED TO ME THEIR WILLINGNESS TO LISTEN BETTER. UM, I ALSO FELT THAT THEY WORKED BETTER WITH THE STAFF PRESENT IN THE MEETINGS. UM, THE PRICE POINTS WHILE, YOU KNOW, RELATIVELY SIMILAR, I FELT THAT HIGH GROUND REALLY DEMONSTRATED AN ABILITY AND A WILLINGNESS TO LISTEN AND TO WORK WITHIN THE DIRECTION THAT CITY STAFF WAS COMMUNICATING ON BEHALF OF, OF CITY COUNCIL. AND SO THAT'S WHY WE DECIDED TO, UM, TO RECOMMEND THAT DIRECTION. AND HOW DO YOU THINK ABOUT OPTION TWO BEING A QR CODE AND THEN A VOLUNTARY RESPONSE VERSUS OPTION THREE, WHICH IS KIND OF PROACTIVE GET 300? YEAH, SO THERE ARE BENEFITS TO BOTH, AND I CAN DEFINITELY SEE FOR STRATEGIC, WHICH IS OPTION THREE'S, UH, RECOMMENDATION AND APPROACH TO REACH STATISTICAL VALIDITY. UH, GIVEN THAT IN THE PAST THIS, UH, THE CITY HAS CONDUCTED A SURVEY, UH, SIMILAR TO THIS AND, UH, UM, UH, HAS RECEIVED A LARGE NUMBER OF, UH, RESPONSES, WHICH I'M SURE CARRIE CAN, UM, SPEAK TO MORE FULLY, UH, THAT, UH, WE DIDN'T FEEL THAT THAT WAS A, A NEEDED APPROACH. AND SO GIVEN, UH, ON, ON NET SOME OF THE QUALITIES OF THE INDIVIDUAL FIRMS, THAT'S WHY WE DECIDED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH OPTION TWO. GREAT. THANK YOU. I THOUGHT THAT WAS VERY CLEAR. THANKS. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY. UH, THEN CARRIE, YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD? NO. . OKAY. THEN WE'LL GO TO THE PUBLIC, UH, TIM PERRY, FOLLOWED BY ANNA BRIDAL AND THEN ROBERT KOSTER. GOOD EVENING COUNSELORS. MY NAME IS TIM PERRY AND I LIVE IN SEDONA. THIS SURVEY IS LONG OVERDUE. IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE THREE YEARS AGO, BUT WE NEED AN HONEST SURVEY ON WHETHER PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT THE AMPHITHEATER OR NOT. I THINK THEY WANT IT, I DON'T KNOW THAT I WANT TO SEE THE DATA, SO LET'S GET OUT AND GET A SURVEY AND GET THE DATA. BUT IT'S GOT TO BE AN HONEST SURVEY, NOT A SLANTED SURVEY, BECAUSE I TELL YOU QUITE FRANKLY, ON BEHALF OF UNOFFICIALLY, ON BEHALF OF SOME OF THOSE OF US IN THE COMMUNITY WHO WANT THIS AMPHITHEATER BACK, THAT IF IT'S A SLANTED SURVEY, WE WILL NOT ACCEPT THE RESULTS AND YOU WILL HAVE HAD ALL THIS EFFORT FOR NOTHING. AND THE CONVERSATION WILL DRAG ON IN THIS CONTEXT. I NEED TO POINT OUT WHAT HAPPENED AT THE RETREAT, WHICH WAS THAT KATHY KINSELLA SAT HERE AND TRIED TO FIND EVERY POSSIBLE WAY SHE COULD SLANT A SURVEY QUESTION TO MAKE IT COME OUT WITH THE ANSWER THAT THE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT THE AMPHITHEATER SPECIFICALLY BY SUGGESTING THAT IT FALSELY BE PRESENTED AS A COMMERCIAL FOR-PROFIT FACILITY INSTEAD OF A NONPROFIT, JUST LIKE THE FILM FESTIVAL. THAT'S NOT THE KIND OF SURVEY QUESTION THAT IS GOING TO GIVE YOU A VALID RESPONSE THAT THE COMMUNITY WILL RESPECT AND ACCEPT. AND IT'S A LITTLE DISCOURAGING TO HEAR THAT THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION FOR WHICH SURVEY OPTION IS TO BE SELECTED WAS CHOSEN BASED ON THE FIRM'S WILLINGNESS TO WORK WITH STAFF AND TO GIVE WHAT THEY WANTED. DOESN'T GIVE US IN THE COMMUNITY A WHOLE LOT OF CONFIDENCE. ALSO NOTEWORTHY IN THIS CONTEXT, UH, IT BECOMES NECESSARY TO THANK PETE FURMAN FOR HIS REMARKABLE DISPLAY OF THE LENINIST THEORY OF THE VANGUARD PARTY DURING THE CULTURAL PARK SURVEY DISCUSSION WHEN HE DECLARED THAT THE DIG STUDIO PROCESS WAS FLAWLESS AND STAFF SHOULD JUST GO AHEAD AND BUILD IT OUT AND PEOPLE WOULD RECONCILE THEMSELVES TO IT. MAYBE THINKING BUREAUCRATS ARE PERFECT, WORKS WELL IF YOU'RE A COMMUNIST FROM CALIFORNIA, BUT I DON'T THINK THE REST OF US TAKE IT VERY SERIOUSLY. WE THINK THAT'S A LOT OF DINGO'S KIDNEYS. SO LET'S GET A FAIR SURVEY, NOT A SLANTED SURVEY, AN HONEST ONE THAT ASKS THE PEOPLE THE QUESTION, DO YOU WANT A NONPROFIT COMMUNITY BENEFITS FACILITY REOPENED HERE OR NOT? THAT'S WHAT IT WAS. THAT'S WHAT IT'S PLANNED TO BE. AGAIN, ASK THE HONEST QUESTION AND LET'S FIND OUT ANNA. SO OF THE CULTURE AND OF YOUR NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE, PLEASE. OH, I'M SORRY. ANNA BRIDEN BALL. I LIVE IN VILLE, BUT [03:10:01] I HAVE A BUSINESS IN SEDONA. I'VE BEEN LIVING AND WORKING IN SEDONA SINCE 1996, AND I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE CULTURAL PARK. AND IT WAS VERY PROFITABLE. IT HAD FABULOUS ARTISTS, VERY, VERY FAMOUS ARTISTS. IT WAS AN EXCITING, WONDERFUL THING. IT BROUGHT MONEY TO THE CITY. SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CITY IS SO INTERESTED IN, IN SPENDING MONEY ON A SURVEY WHEN LAST YEAR THE CITY WANTED TO PUT, UM, PARKING THERE AND THAT WAS PUT ON THE BALLOT AND IT WAS RESOUNDLY DEFEATED. THE PEOPLE DON'T WANT PARKING THERE, AND NOW YOU WANNA BUILD ON IT, WHICH JUST BOGGLES MY MIND. IT'S LIKE, WHY WOULD YOU BUILD RESIDENTIAL HOUSING ON SUCH A BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL PROPERTY THAT COULD BE PROFITABLE TO THE CITY? AND, AND, AND IT HAS BEEN IN THE PAST, AND IT COULD BE AGAIN IN THE FUTURE. WHY WASTE OUR TAXPAYER MONEY ON A SURVEY WHEN YOU ALREADY HAVE THE PUBLIC OPINION SAYING, NO, WE WANT A CULTURAL PARK THERE. WE WANNA HAVE FANTASTIC PERFORMERS. WE WANT TO, I MEAN, I WENT TO FAIRS THAT WERE THREE, UH, THREE DAY WEEKEND FAIRS THAT WAS JUST MINDBOGGLINGLY FABULOUS. AND, AND THAT MADE ME SO EXCITED ABOUT LIVING IN SEDONA. AND NOW WE DON'T HAVE ANY OF THAT. AND SO THE POINT IS WHY, UM, THE CITY HAS ALREADY SPOKEN. WE HAVE ALREADY SAID WE WANT THIS PARK BACK. WE, AND, AND IT'S A BEAUTIFUL PLACE. AND IT'S ALSO FABULOUS FOR BIKING AND HIKING AND, AND IT HAS FABULOUS VIEWS. AND TO PUT MORE RESIDENTIAL HOUSING ON SUCH A INCREDIBLE PROPERTY, TO ME IS INSANE. IT'S INSANE. WE NEED TO PRESERVE THIS BEAUTIFUL PARK AND KEEP IT AS IT WAS BEFORE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, ROBERT. THANK YOU. UH, ROBERT COSTER. I'M A RESIDENT OF SEDONA. UH, AND UH, THANK YOU FOR THE TIME HERE. NOW I'M AN OLD TIME A SU GRAD AND UH, GOT MY DEGREE IN MARKETING WITH QUANTITATIVE STATISTICS AND BACKGROUND, UH, STATISTICS BACKGROUND, WHICH LABELED ME AS AN IT GUY, WHICH IS WHERE MY CAREER WAS FOR ALL MY LIFE. ONE OF THE FIRST PROJECT I HAD AT A SU WAS BIG SURF. HAD ANYBODY EVER BEEN THERE BACK IN THE SEVENTIES, I'M REALLY DATING MYSELF. UM, , I WAS PART OF THE TEAM THAT PUT TOGETHER SURVEY, AND I KNOW SURVEYS ARE FLAWED. SURVEYS ARE, AND I'M GONNA AGREE WITH TIM HERE. YOU CAN MAKE IT SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT BASED UPON THE RESULTS YOU PUT INTO AND WHAT QUESTIONS YOU ASK, AND YOU CAN PRESENT IT ANY WAY YOU WANT IN TERMS OF HOW YOU SLICE IT AND DICE IT. AND WE HAD 3000, 4,000 PEOPLE THAT WE, WE QUERIED WHEN WE PUT THAT TOGETHER. SO THEY'RE FLAWED. UM, I QUESTIONED THE NEED FOR THE SURVEY, UH, FOR A COUPLE REASONS. ONE IS THERE'S BEEN A COUPLE ACTIVITIES THAT HAVE BEEN DONE THROUGH THE DOT, I'M GONNA CALL IT THE DOT SESSIONS, YOU KNOW, EITHER AT THE HIGH SCHOOL OR POSSE GROUNDS WHERE WE WENT THROUGH AN EXERCISE OF DOING VERY SIMILAR TYPE OF THING. WE PAID CONSULTANTS MONEY TO DO THAT. THAT PROBABLY COULD HAVE BEEN SPENT OTHER WAYS THAT WE'D BE MORE PRODUCTIVE. SO I QUESTION WHY WE EVEN DO IT, UH, TO HAVE THAT. WE DO HAVE SOME THINGS THAT ARE COMING UP IN THE NEAR FUTURE IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY PUTTING A LOT OF THIS TO A VOTE BY THE CITY, WHICH REALLY MATTERS. YOUR VOTES REALLY DON'T MATTER. IT'S THE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY THAT MATTERS AT THE END OF THE DAY AND HOW THEY WANT TO SEE IT AND WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE. YOU MAY THINK THAT YOU CONTROL IT. UH, YOU HAVE A BIG INFLUENCE ON IT, OBVIOUSLY, BUT I THINK IT OFTEN COMES DOWN TO THE END OF THE CITY AND YOU CAN DO MULTIPLE SURVEYS, COME BACK WITH MULTIPLE RESULTS. I MEAN, WHEN WE DID THE BIG SURF SURVEY AND WE WENT THROUGH AND USED, YOU KNOW, PROGRAMS AND DID PRINTED OUT ON PAPER SHEETS, THESE STATS BACK IN THE DAY BEFORE, IT WAS, IT, UM, WE COULD HAVE PRESENTED THAT FINDINGS ANY WAY WE WANTED OR ANYWHERE A CLIENT WANTED IT. I MEAN, BUT WE PRESENTED IT HOW WE THOUGHT WE SHOULD. AND AGAIN, IT WAS SUBJECT TO OUR THOUGHTS. AND THE SAME THING WHEN YOU PICK, YOU KNOW, AN OPTION ONE OR OPTION TWO, OPTION THREE, AND YOU PAY SOME MONEY AND THAT MONEY COULD PROBABLY BE BETTER SPENT SOMEWHERE ELSE. WE HAVE SOME THINGS THAT ARE COMING UP THAT WILL ACTUALLY POTENTIALLY WITH THE CITY'S SUPPORT, ACTUALLY TELL WHAT THE CITY WANTS. UH, MY VOTE AND, AND THAT'S WHERE I STAND ON THIS, IS, YOU KNOW, LET THE INITIATIVE GO. LET THE INITIATIVE STAND, GET A VOTE FROM THE CITY TO MAKE A DETERMINATION, AND THEN IT'S OUTTA YOUR HANDS AND YOU CAN SUPPORT THE WHATEVER THE OUTCOME IS, PRO OR CON, UM, THAT [03:15:01] COMES AND, UH, SURVEYS. IT'S A TOOL. IT'S A FLAWED TOOL. UM, SO THAT'S WHAT I HAVE TO SAY, UH, FOR THIS. AND I THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND, UH, WE'LL WORK TOGETHER. THANK YOU. OKAY, WE'RE AT COMMENTS DEREK. SO, UH, UH, FIRST THING I WANNA POINT OUT, THE, THE VOTE TO REJECT SAFE PLACE TO PARK WAS NOT A VOTE TO RESTORE THE AMPHITHEATER. IT WAS A VOTE TO REJECT SAFE PLACE TO PARK. THAT WAS ALL THAT WAS ON THE BALLOT. UH, I THINK EVEN THE PEOPLE WHO WERE PROPONENTS OF THAT BALLOT WOULD'VE TOLD YOU THE SAME THING, WHICH WAS, THIS IS JUST STRAIGHT YES OR NO ON WHETHER SAFE PLACE TO A PARK IS GONNA BE DECIDED. SO THAT DOES NOT DECIDE THE ISSUE OF WHAT HAPPENS AT THE AMPHITHEATER. UM, I DO SUPPORT THE SURVEY. I THINK IT SHOULD ASK ONE SIMPLE QUESTION, DO YOU SUPPORT THE RESTORATION REOPENING AND OPERATION OF THE AMPHITHEATER? WE DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GONNA BE A FOR-PROFIT ENTERPRISE. WE DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GONNA BE A NON-PROFIT ENTERPRISE. I THINK THE FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION IS, DO THE RESIDENTS SUPPORT REOPENING THE FACILITY? 'CAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S SHAPE IT'S GONNA TAKE. UH, MAYBE IT IS A NON-PROFIT IF, IF, UH, LIVE NATION IS INVOLVED IN, AND I SUSPECT NONPROFIT IS, UH, NOWHERE TO BE SEEN. BUT, YOU KNOW, WE JUST, WE DON'T KNOW ENOUGH. AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE VERY BASIC QUESTION HAS TO BE ASKED ASKED. AND I DON'T THINK IT'S A LEADING QUESTION. I DON'T THINK IT IMPLIES, UH, THAT THE CITY SUPPORTS IT OR DOESN'T SUPPORT IT. JUST A STRAIGHT UP, YES OR NO, DO YOU SUPPORT THIS? IF PEOPLE WANT TO HAVE FILL IN COMMENTS, THEY CAN FILL IN COMMENTS, BUT I THINK THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT NEEDS TO BE ANSWERED. UH, AND I WOULD PROBABLY GO, WHAT WAS IT? NUMBER TWO? YEAH, OPTION TWO. TYLER, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU. OPTION THREE, FIRST STRATEGIC SAID THAT THEY RECOMMENDED NO LESS THAN EIGHT QUESTIONS. DID THE OTHER, UH, HIGH GROUND AND NOBLE, DID THEY HAVE AN OPINION ON THE NUMBER OF QUESTIONS? EACH FIRM INDICATED THAT IT IS BEST TO REACH A SENSE OF AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE TRUTH OF WHAT REGISTERED VOTERS THINK, THAT YOU WILL LIKELY NEED MORE THAN ONE QUESTION. THEY ALL INDICATED A WILLINGNESS TO ABIDE BY WHATEVER THE ORGANIZATIONS ASK OF THEM IS, BUT TO REACH A LEVEL THAT'S SATISFYING OF NON-BIAS IN THE SURVEY AND TO HELP REACH STATISTICAL VALIDITY, THEY RECOMMENDED MORE THAN ONE QUESTION. THANK YOU. OKAY. I'LL WAIT. OKAY. THANK YOU, MAYOR. UM, I WANT TO GET INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY ABOUT THE USE OF THE LAND AT CULTURAL PARK WHEN WE HAVE SOMETHING FOR THE COMMUNITY TO FURTHER REACT TO, WHICH I BELIEVE WON'T OCCUR UNTIL SOMETIME AFTER WE'VE COMPLETED OUR BALANCED HOUSING STRATEGY, WHICH I THINK WILL INFORM ULTIMATELY WHAT WE THINK WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE, UH, CONSTRUCTED ON THE PROPERTY IN ADDITION TO SIF MOVING OUT THERE. AND IN THE MEANTIME, THERE'S STILL A QUESTION OF, OF COURSE, THE, THE AMPHITHEATER. UM, I, I AM CONVINCED THAT COUNSEL IN TOTAL IS NOT FULLY INFORMED ON WHAT THE PROPOSAL IS FOR, UH, BRINGING THE AMPHITHEATER BACK. UM, AND MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE I'VE HAD ADDITIONAL COMMUNICATION WITH, UH, SOME OF THE PRINCIPALS INVOLVED IN THAT. BUT IT, THEY'RE VERY CLEAR ABOUT IT BEING A NONPROFIT, UH, ENTITY THAT WOULD BE OPERATING THERE, UH, UNDER LEASE TO THE CITY. AND WHETHER LIVE NATION OR ANY OF THOSE OTHER COMPANIES ARE INVOLVED IS IMMATERIAL AS TO WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, FOR-PROFIT VERSUS NON-PROFIT. SO WE ARE NOT FULLY UNDER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE PROPOSED STRATEGY IS FOR THAT AMPHITHEATER. SO TO ME, IT FEELS EXTREMELY PREMATURE FOR US TO BE SURVEYING. UM, LIKE, LIKE IN MY MIND, IF WE'RE GOING TO SURVEY, I WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE A TRUE, ACCURATE, UH, [03:20:01] VIEW OF THIS IS WHAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT WE THINK IS COMMON GROUND THAT WE CAN LAND ON FOR THE USE OF THE CULTURAL PARK PROPERTY. AND MAYBE THAT INCLUDES THE AMPHITHEATER AND INCLUDES S AND IT INCLUDES HOUSING AND THAT THERE IS SOME COMMON GROUND TO BE HAD THERE. UM, BUT WE CAN'T REALLY SURVEY ACCURATELY ON THAT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE, UH, AGAIN, IN MY VIEW, IT, IT NEEDS TO BE A, A, A BROADER PICTURE, NOT JUST THIS SINGULAR QUESTION ABOUT THE AMPHITHEATER, WHEN THERE'S STILL QUESTIONS ABOUT, UH, WHAT THEIR ULTIMATE STRATEGY WOULD BE AND WHETHER IT'S FINANCIALLY VIABLE AND THEY'RE WANTING TO WORK ON THAT, OF COURSE. SO, UM, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THIS IS A VERY PREMATURE ITEM TO BE CONSIDERING RIGHT NOW. UM, I WOULD ACTUALLY PREFER TO JUST SEE US DEFER THIS QUESTION INDEFINITELY UNTIL SUCH TIME AS WE HAVE A, UH, A BETTER PICTURE OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE THINK REALLY SHOULD BE ON THAT PROPERTY. AND THERE'S WORK TO BE DONE HOUSING THE AMPHITHEATER AND WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING. UM, AND THEY DON'T KNOW FULLY WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING. THEY'RE WANTING TO COOPERATE AND COLLABORATE WITH THE CITY TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO FIGURE THAT OUT IN GREATER DETAIL THAN WHAT THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO SHOW US SO FAR. SO, UM, I'VE PROBABLY GONE FULL CIRCLE HERE. SO, YOU KNOW, MY, MY VIEW IS, IS THAT I REALLY AM NOT INTERESTED IN ANY OF THE OPTIONS AT THIS STAGE. I REALLY JUST THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE DEFERRING THIS UNTIL SUCH TIME AS WE HAVE A BETTER DESCRIPTION OF WHAT WE THINK, UH, WE'D LIKE TO SEE ON THAT PROPERTY, AND THEN LET THE COMMUNITY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY REACT TO A, A MORE COMPLETE PICTURE. THANK YOU, MAYOR KATHY. SO I WAS A PROPONENT OF THIS, UM, ORIGINALLY, YOU KNOW, TO GET THIS GOING BECAUSE I FRUSTRATED, I'M STILL FRUSTRATED, UH, THAT WE DON'T HAVE A CLEAR INDICATION. I MEAN, I DON'T, I REALLY, FROM WHAT COLLEAGUES HAVE SAID IT VARIOUS TIMES, I DON'T THINK THERE IS A CLEAR INDICATION BECAUSE EVERYBODY'S IN A COMMUNICATION BUBBLE. I THINK THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO VERY MUCH WANT AN AMPHITHEATER, AND I SINCERELY, AND I THINK THEY THINK IT WOULD BE A GREAT ADVANTAGE TO THE CITY. AND THEN I THINK THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO REALLY DO NOT WANT TO AMPHITHEATER AND THINK IT WOULD BRING DOWN A LOT OF, UM, NEGATIVE IMPACT. I BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO FEEL STRONGLY THAT HOUSING NEEDS TO BE A COMPONENT AT THE WESTERN GATEWAY. I THINK THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY FEARFUL OF, UH, DENSITY THERE WE'RE AT A LOG JAM BECAUSE EVERYBODY THAT HAS ONE OF THOSE OR OTHER OPINIONS KEEPS REINFORCING AND, AND SPEAKING AND NOT LOOKING AT MAYBE SOME OF THE OTHER PARTS OF THE INFORMATION. SO ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I SAID THAT I THOUGHT WE NEED TO GET A SURVEY IS TO GET A CLEAR INDICATOR TO BREAK THE LOG JAM. I STILL FEEL WE NEED TO BREAK THE LOG JAM AND GET A CLEAR INDICATOR. UM, BUT I'M FRUSTRATED AT THE INFORMATION THAT'S COME AS HOW TO DO THIS, BECAUSE I THINK THAT ONE OF THE REASONS I HAD SAID TRY AND MAKE IT ONE NARROW FOCUSED QUESTION WAS SO THAT THAT IS ALL WE WERE GETTING. AND IT WASN'T BIASED BY ANY OTHER INFORMATION THAT CAME INTO PLAY. SO I LIKED YOUR LANGUAGE BEFORE DEREK AS WELL. UM, BUT I AM NOW ALSO SOMEWHAT CONVINCED THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE ONE QUESTION THAT GETS THERE BECAUSE THERE'S NO FRAMEWORK FOR IT. BECAUSE LIKE IF THE QUA THAT YOU PHRASED IT, WHICH I LIKED VERY MUCH THOUGH MY HEAD IMMEDIATELY WENT TO IF I WERE ANSWERING THAT QUESTION, YES, BUT WHO WOULD BE PAYING FOR IT? SO THAT'S INFORMATION THAT'S NOT IN THE QUESTION. YOU KNOW, IS THAT PRIVATELY DEVELOPED? IS THAT DEVELOPED OF PUBLIC MONIES? IS THAT A PARTNERSHIP? IS THAT WHATEVER? I MEAN, THERE'S JUST EVERY ANSWER AND EVERY QUESTION LEADS TO ANOTHER QUESTION. SO I AM, UM, VERY REMAIN AS FRUSTRATED AS I WAS WHEN WE HAD THIS CONVERSATION INITIALLY DURING THE BUDGET WORKSHOP, UH, BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT I HAD HAD SOMETHING THAT COULD HELP US IN A SOLUTION. I NOW DON'T KNOW IF IT IS A SOLUTION, BUT I, I AM RELUCTANT TO WAIT ON THIS FOR THE PERIOD OF TIME BECAUSE AGAIN, THE LOG JAM DOESN'T BREAK. UM, THERE'S A PRO AND A CON TO WAITING FIRST. I THINK IF WE WAITED, WE COULD HAVE THE INFORMATION THAT WOULD HELP FRAME THE QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ADDITIONAL PART OF IT. UM, [03:25:01] BUT IF WE WAIT, IT'S TOO LATE AND WE DON'T HAVE THE INDICATION OF WHAT IT IS THAT THE COMMUNITY REALLY HAS EXPRESSED AND THEY WANT. SO I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER. UH, I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO MORE CONVERSATION FROM THE DAIS AND, AND I'LL JUMP IN AGAIN, BUT I WANTED TO BE CLEAR ON WHERE THIS, WHAT THE, WHERE THIS CAME FROM, THE INITIAL THOUGHT PROCESS BEHIND IT, AND AGAIN, THAT THE FRUSTRATION IS STILL VERY PRESENT. THANK YOU, PETE. THANK YOU MAYOR. UH, THANKS FOR THOSE COMMENTS. COUNCILOR KINSELLA, I'M GONNA ECHO SOME OF IT DIRECTIONALLY, BUT NOT ALL OF IT. UH, FIRST I WANNA SAY THAT, UH, I, I THINK OPTION TWO, THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION OF OPTION TWO IS PROBABLY THE BETTER OF THE ALTERNATIVES THAT STAFF RECOMMENDED. I AM ALSO COGNIZANT OF CITY MANAGER'S RECOMMENDATION AND THAT, UH, USUALLY HOLDS SWAY WITH ME. UM, AND ONE OF THE REASONS, UH, IS BECAUSE, UH, I WANT TO THANK THE STAFF FOR WHOEVER DECIDED TO PUT IN THE RESULTS OF THE JANUARY, 2025 SURVEY INTO THE STAFF REPORT. I THOUGHT THAT WAS BEAUTIFUL BECAUSE WHEN WE HAD THIS LAST DISCUSSION THAT WASN'T IN THE TOP OF MY MIND, THAT WASN'T EVEN IN MY MIND TRUTHFULLY THE ANSWERS TO THAT. AND I'M JUST GONNA ECHO TWO OF THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE IN THERE. QUESTION NUMBER NINE WAS ABOUT DO YOU WANNA, UH, IS THERE A NEED FOR A LARGER AMPHITHEATER IN SEDONA THAN POSSE GROUNDS PARK? 57.6% OF THE PEOPLE SEVEN 917 OUT OF 917 VOTES TOTAL SAID THEY DIDN'T WANT A, AN AMPHITHEATER LARGER THAN PAA GROUNDS PARK. NOW THAT'S 80% OF THOSE RESPONDENTS SAID THERE'S CITY OF SEDONA RESIDENTS. SO THAT'S A PRETTY STRONG VOTE. AND THEN I BOPPED DOWN TO QUESTION 13, WHICH IS ABOUT FREQUENT USE AND VISITATION. AND 53.3% OF PEOPLE RESPONDING TO THAT QUESTION SAID THEY DON'T SUPPORT ELEMENTS LIKE AN AMPHITHEATER THAT GIVE FREQUENT USE AND VISITATION. SO MY, WHEN I READ THE STAFF REPORT, MY NEED TO ADDRESS A SURVEY, NOW LESSON SOME, BUT I'M COMPLETELY IN THE CAMP WITH COUNCILLOR KINSELLA THAT DEFER IN THIS QUESTION DOESN'T ACTUALLY GIVE US ANSWERS ABOUT WHAT TO DO AND PARTICULARLY WHAT TO DO IF A BALLOT MEASURE THAT'S CURRENTLY OUT THERE APPEARS ON THE BALLOT. AND I SAID THIS BEFORE, I'LL SAY IT AGAIN. IF WE DO NOTHING BETWEEN NOW AND THEN WE'RE GONNA FIGHT. IT'S GONNA BE A FEAR CAMPAIGN. THIS IS ALL THE REASONS WHY NOT TO DO SOMETHING AND NOTHING STANDING UP AGAINST IT. AND THAT IS THE EASIEST THING TO WIN IN A POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT. YOU CAN'T HAVE JUST A FEAR CAMPAIGN. 'CAUSE EVERYONE REACTS TO FEAR AND, AND EVERYONE RESONATES WITH FEAR IDEAS. AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE A DIFFERENT VISION, THEN THAT'S GONNA WIN OVERWHELMINGLY, AND THAT'S NOT A FAIR CONVERSATION TO HAVE IN OUR COMMUNITY. THAT'S NOT THE WAY TO DO IT. SO I THINK WE, I STILL, AFTER ALL THAT REFLECTION, I DO PERHAPS LEAN TOWARDS A SURVEY AND I'M MOTIVATED BY, YOU JUST CAN'T ASK ONE QUESTION. I HEAR THE CONCERNS ABOUT PROFIT VERSUS NON-PROFIT, AND THAT'S COMPLEX OR NOT. THE QUESTIONS THAT I THINK NEED TO BE ANSWERED ARE, DO YOU WANNA SEE RESTORATION OF THE, UH, THE CULTURAL PARK AMPHITHEATER? LET'S HEAR AN ANSWER TO THAT. NOW, TELL US IF IT REQUIRES A CITY SUBSIDY. DO YOU STILL FEEL THAT WAY? AND THEN YOU GOTTA GO BEYOND THAT BECAUSE YOU JUST CAN'T TALK ABOUT RESTORATION OF THE AMPHITHEATER. THE WAY THE GROUP THAT CAME TO US TALKED ABOUT THE RESTORATION OF THE AMPHITHEATER, YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THE OPERATION. AND SO DO YOU USE, SUPPORT THE OPERATION OF THE AMPHITHEATER AND THEN DO YOU SUPPORT THE OPERATION, THE AMPHITHEATER, IF IT REQUIRES A CITY SUBSIDY? THOSE ARE PRETTY SIMPLE QUESTIONS. I THINK YOU GET AWAY FROM THAT PROFIT VERSUS NON-PROFIT NOT KNOWING EXACTLY THE MODEL, WHATEVER THIS IS REALLY ABOUT WHAT DO WE WANT TAXPAYERS THE TAXPAYER DOLLARS TO PAY FOR OR NOT RESTORATION OPERATION. SO THAT'S MY, CAN I JUST TAKE ONE SECOND? YEAH, THE ONLY THING I WOULD ADD TO THAT IS THAT THERE I THINK HAS TO BE A POPULATION NUMBER IN THERE FOR PEOPLE TO FRAME IT AND ASK LIKE THAT IT WOULD HAVE X AMOUNT OF VISITORS, USAGE CLIENTS, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT. BECAUSE IF, IF SOME PEOPLE THINK IT'S GONNA BE COMPARABLE TO POSSE GROUNDS PARK OR SOMETHING, PEOPLE THINK IT'S GONNA BE BIGGER THAN FIVE DO. I MEAN, I JUST THINK, AGAIN, THIS LEADS TO THE PROBLEM OF THE FRAMEWORK FOR THE QUESTION, BUT I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAID, BUT I JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT IN, UH, MELISSA AND THEN CHARLOTTE. SO I, I AGREE WITH THE VICE MAYOR. UM, I DON'T BELIEVE WE'RE GOING TO GAIN ANY USEFUL INFORMATION FROM ANOTHER CITIZEN SURVEY AT [03:30:01] THIS TIME BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION CITIZENS NEED TO MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION. UM, AT THIS TIME, ALL WE KNOW IS THAT WE DO NOT WANT A HIGH DENSITY HOUSING AT THE WESTERN GATEWAY AS DEMONSTRATED BY OUR DENIAL OF HIGH DENSITY HOUSING PROPOSAL THAT WAS PRESENTED TO US BY DIG STUDIOS. UM, WE DO NOT HAVE A PLAN THAT CITIZENS CAN REVIEW TO MAKE A GOOD DECISION, LET ALONE COUNCIL TO MAKE A GOOD DECISION. HAVING RULED OUT HIGH DENSITY AND REFRESH THE IDEA THAT THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF THE WESTERN GATEWAY PURCHASE WAS TO HAVE A FAIR BALANCE OF HIGH RESIDENT VALUE IN HOUSING. I BELIEVE WE STILL HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED BEFORE THE CITIZENS HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO MAKE A DECISION. WE NEED TO A DESIGN AGAINST WHICH SPECIFIC ISSUES CAN BE RAISED BY MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY. BUT WE AREN'T THERE YET. A SURVEY AT THIS TIME WILL COST MONEY TO ASK THE COMMUNITY TO MAKE DECISIONS WITHOUT KNOWING ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS SUCH AS WHAT ARE THE COMMUNITY'S RECREATION NEEDS? THE COMMUNITY STATED IN THE VARIOUS CHARETTES OR BRAINSTORMING SESSIONS THAT THERE WAS AN INTEREST IN A SMALL AMPHITHEATER FOR HOSTING OUTDOOR COMMUNITY LEVEL CONCERTS. AND WE KNOW FROM PARKS AND RECS THAT EVEN THE RED DIRT CONCERTS HAVE OUTGROWN THE VENUE AT POSSE GROUND. WE HAVE HEARD OUR PARKS AND REC DIRECTOR TELL US HE'S TURNING DOWN LARGE EVENTS BECAUSE POSSE GROUNDS CURRENTLY OUR LARGEST PUBLIC EVENT SPACE IS SIMPLY NOT LARGE ENOUGH. SO DO WE WANNA PUT A FESTIVAL GROUNDS UP THERE FOR HOLDING FESTIVALS TO WHICH THE COMMUNITY CAN ATTEND? WE'VE HEARD THERE IS INTEREST IN A COMMUNITY RECREATION CENTER THAT MAY OR MAY NOT HOST A WORLD CLASS AQUATIC CENTER. UM, THIS WOULD REPLACE THE AGING POOL THAT'S RENTED FROM THE SCHOOL DISTRICT CURRENTLY AND MIGHT ALSO CONTAIN INDOOR SPORTS COURTS CLASS SPACE FOR CLASSES OF ALL AGES, GYM SPACE AND PERHAPS EVEN A DAYCARE CENTER. SO FAMILIES CAN ENJOY CLASSES AND WORKOUTS TOGETHER. THEN THERE IS A DESIRE FOR OPEN PARK SPACE AVAILABLE WHEN EVEN WHEN THERE'S A FESTIVAL GOING ON AND THAT'S ACCESSIBLE TO NON ATTENDEES OF THAT FESTIVAL. AND THEN THERE'S PARKING SHOULD SPACE BE MADE AVAILABLE NEAR THE TRAILHEAD FOR PARKING FOR TRAILHEAD AND PARK USE, INCLUDING THIS POTENTIAL REC CENTER. HOW MUCH SPACE NEEDS TO BE ALLOCATED FOR PARKING? IS THERE A SHUTTLE STOP TO GO ALONG WITH SHARED USE PATHS AND ALTERNATIVES TO USE THIS NEW FACILITIES? AND ONCE WE ALLOCATE THE COMMUNITY FACILITY SPACE AND ADDRESS THE SPACE NEEDS OF MOBILITY AND PARKING, AND THEN YOU REMOVE THE SPACE ALLOCATED TO SIE F, WHICH ALSO PROVIDES A MANAGED, ACOUSTICAL DESIGNED ARTISTIC SPACE, HOW MUCH LAND IS LEFT? AND IF THIS LAND IS TO BE USED FOR HOUSING, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT HIGH DENSITY. IF WE HAD A PLAN FOR THESE THINGS, CITIZENS WOULD HAVE INFORMATION WITH WHICH TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE WESTERN GATEWAY. BUT WE DON'T HAVE A PLAN YET. BUT THIS LEADS ME TO THE QUESTION OF WHO ARE WE HOUSING? AND I'VE MENTIONED THIS BEFORE, IF IT IS IT SENIORS WITH LIMITED INCOMES, SENIORS WITH HEALTH ISSUES, YOUNG ENTREPRENEURS AND CREATORS AND THEIR FAMILIES, CRITICAL WORKFORCE WHO MAINTAIN THE HEALTH, SAFETY, AND WELFARE OF OUR COMMUNITY AND US AS RESIDENTS AND THEIR FAMILIES SUCH AS POLICE, FIRE, HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS, EDUCATORS. I SUGGEST THAT EACH OF THESE GROUPS HAS DIFFERENT HOUSING NEEDS. SMALLER APARTMENTS MAY WORK FOR SENIORS, BUT NOT FOR ENTREPRENEURS. NOTE THAT ENTREPRENEURS MAY INCLUDE CREATORS AND WELLNESS PROVIDERS WHO WANT SOMETHING MORE THAN MORE LIKE A LIVE WORK SPACE. SO THINK OF AN APARTMENT OVER A WORKSHOP OR OVER A STUDIO, OVER A GALLERY. PEOPLE WITH FAMILIES WILL UNDOUBTEDLY NEED A LARGER HOME SPACE WITH TWO OR THREE BEDROOMS. WE DO NOT YET HAVE A PLAN THAT ADDRESSES THESE DIVERSE HOUSING NEEDS. THAT'S THEIR BALANCED HOUSING PLAN AND THESE DIVERSE RECREATIONAL DE DESIRES AND MORE. AS A RESULT, ASSISTANCE WHO TAKE A SURVEY NOW WON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION THEY NEED TO MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION. ONCE ALL OF THIS IS DENOTED FOR OUR PARK SPACE AND WE'VE DENOTED WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO FOR HOUSING, WE CAN BE PRETTY SURE THAT WE WILL NOT BE PUTTING IN ANY LARGE NUMBER OF HOUSING, MAYBE AS MUCH AS 200, MAYBE AS LITTLE AS 150. BUT I WANNA TALK AGAIN NOW ABOUT THE COMMERCIAL AMPHITHEATER OR THE NONPROFIT AMPHITHEATER, WHATEVER THIS AMPHITHEATER IS. I THINK THERE'S UNANSWERED QUESTIONS TO THIS ALTERNATIVE PROPOSAL AND I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS AN ALTERNATIVE AND NOT A COMPLIMENT TO THE OTHER PROPOSAL. FIRST, I'M NOT CONVINCED THE COMMUNITY WANTS TO HAVE AN ENORMOUS INCREASE IN TOURISM AS IS PROPOSED BY THIS PROJECT. MEANING MORE TOURISTS AND MORE TOURISTS ON THE WEEKENDS AS RESIDENTS. THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH OF US TO FILL 5,500 SEATS AT EVERY EVENT. SECOND, IF WE CHOOSE NOT TO ALLOW MOST OF THE REMAINING LAND TO BE TURNED INTO THE PARKING LOT FOR 1100 CARS AS THEY INITIALLY PROPOSED, THIS IS NOT THE HIGHEST AND BEST USE OF THE COMMUNITY USE OF THE LAND IN MY OPINION. THEN WHERE AND HOW WILL PEOPLE GET TO AND FROM THIS CONCERT VENUE? [03:35:01] HOW WILL THAT IMPACT PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING IN THE AREA AS WELL AS THE STREETS THAT ARE SURROUNDING IT? THIRD, I HAVE NOT YET BEEN CONVINCED THAT THIS VENUE WILL EVEN OUT THE TOURISM IMPACT BY PROVIDING JOBS YEAR ROUND. I'M NOT SURE HOW YOU HAVE CONCERTED AT AN OUTDOOR VENUE WHEN IT'S COLD AND THE ROCKS ARE EVEN COLDER AND THE WEATHER IS UNPREDICTABLE. IN THE WINTER, IN THE SUMMER WHERE THE SEATS HAVE BEEN BAKING IN THE SUN ALL DAY AND THE TEMPERATURE IS 90 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT AT NINE O'CLOCK AT NIGHT, IT SEEMS TO MAKE SUMMER CONCERTS LESS DOABLE AS WELL. THIS LEAVES THE PRIME SEASONS BEING SPRING AND FALL, WHICH IS ALREADY OUR HIGHEST TOUR SEASON. AND WE DO, DO WE REALLY WANNA HAVE MORE TOURISTS IN TOWN FOR A WEEKEND OR EVEN DURING THE MIDDLE OF THE WEEK. THIS VENUE HAS BEEN COMPARED TO THE RED ROCKS BOULDERS. AND FROM WHAT I CAN SEE BY LOOKING AT THEIR EVENTS, THERE ARE NO EVENTS THAT RUN MID-NOVEMBER TO MID-MARCH AT THE VENUE THAT WOULD TALLY CLOSELY TO OUR WINTER DOWN SEASON TWO. THOUGH BEING IN THE ROCKIES IN THE SUMMER MAKES A LOT MORE SENSE BEING COMPARED TO BEING HERE IN ARIZONA. CU HILL OR THE PEPSI AMPHITHEATER IN FLAGSTAFF DOESN'T START CONCERTS UNTIL MAY AND ENDS THEM IN SEPTEMBER WHEN THE WEATHER BECOMES UNRELIABLE, UNRELIABLE AND POTENTIALLY COLD. THEY HAVE NO EVENTS DURING AUGUST, WHICH IS MONSOON SEASON, THOUGH THOSE MONSOONS HAVE BECOME A LITTLE UNRELIABLE TOO. AND THEY DO HAVE EVENTS IN JULY, BUT IT IS COOLER IN FLAGSTAFF OFTEN BY 20 DEGREES. FINALLY, NOISE. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WHEN THE VENUE WAS LAST HERE, THERE WERE A LOT OF NOISE COMPLAINTS. I WOULD EXPECT NOISE WOULD INDEED BE AN ISSUE FOR SOME PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT ENJOY A CONCERT IN THEIR BACKYARD. SOUND CARIES IN THE ROCKS MAKES THAT SOUND CARRY EVEN FURTHER. BUILDING ANY HOUSING AS WAS PROPOSED ORIGINALLY BY THE CPT GROUP, IN MY OPINION, IS THEREFORE A RED HERRING. IT'S SIMPLY NOT REALISTIC TO HOUSE YOUNG FAMILIES, SENIORS, OR OTHERS WHO NEED SLEEP AT NIGHT OR ARE WORRIED ABOUT CRIME BECAUSE OF THE HIGH NUMBER OF STRANGERS ON THE PROPERTY DURING EVENTS WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN IMBIBING OR INGESTING TO EXCESS OR THE MESS LEFT BEHIND ON THE PUBLIC OR HOUSING PORTIONS OF THE PROPERTY DURING THE COURSE OF AN EVENT. REMEMBER THAT MOST OF THESE ATTENDEES WILL UNDOUBTEDLY NOT LIVE HERE AND DO NOT HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF OUR COMMUNITY. AND WHILE THIS MIGHT SEEM TO BE ON THE EDGE OF TOWN, THERE ARE NOW QUITE A BIT OF HOUSING IN THE AREA. ALL THIS IS TO SAY WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER POLE UNTIL WE HAVE FINISHED MASTER PLANNING WHAT WE THINK HAS BEEN REQUESTED THROUGH THE VARIOUS COMMUNITY CHARS OR BRAINSTORMING SESSIONS, THE KNOWN ORIGINAL INTENT WHEN THE LAND WAS PURCHASED. AND WHAT HAS BEEN SAID HERE IN CONS CHAMBERS IS OUR PRIORITIES AROUND COMMUNITY HOUSING, TRANSIT, MOBILITY, AND DIVERSIFICATION. PEOPLE THAT CAN THEN COMMENT DIRECTLY ON THE PARTS OF THE PLAN. WE ALSO DON'T NEED A POLL REGARDING THE 5,500 SEAT AMPHITHEATER UNTIL WE HAVE ANSWERS TO ANY, UH, THE OUT OUTSIDE OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS OF TIMING, EMPLOYMENT, TOURISM, PARKING, NOISE AND MORE. AND WE KNOW NOW HOW MUCH OF THE LAND IS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC OR IS SEQUESTERED AWAY FROM PUBLIC USE TO PROTECT THE OUTDOOR AMPHITHEATER PROPERTY, WHICH DIMINISHES THE NOTION THAT VOTING FOR THIS LARGE ENTERPRISE IS SOMEHOW PRESERVING THE LAND FOR PUBLIC USE AND SOMEHOW PROTECTING THE NATURAL SPACES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN IMPACTED BY THE PREVIOUS USE AS A FAILED ENTERPRISE AND A PARKING LOT. AS FOR THE NOTION THAT HOUSING WILL CREATE MORE CRIME THAN A COMMERCIAL OR NON-COMMERCIAL, IF IT'S TRULY NON-PROFIT, ENTERPRISE OR VENUE SEEMS MORE LIKE FEAR MONGERING THAN REALITY. IF WE ARE LOOKING AT HOUSING SENIORS, CRITICAL WORKFORCE ENTREPRENEURS, CREATORS, AS FOR INCREASING TRAFFIC BY HAVING HOUSING, THOSE INDIVIDUALS WILL ALREADY BE WORKING HERE. AND SO TRAVELING FROM A FURTHER DISTANCE OR THE WESTERN GATEWAY DOES NOT CHANGE THE VOLUME ON OUR TWO MAJOR ROADS. IN SUMMATION, I BELIEVE WE ARE STILL PUSHING ON AIR, SO TO SPEAK, UNTIL WE HAVE A SOLID MASTER PLAN FOR BOTH PROJECTS. UNDERSTANDINGS ON THE IMPACT OF ANY PREVIOUSLY UNDISTURBED LAND AND ACCESS TO AND HOW MUCH WILL BE OPEN IN PUBLIC SPACE. AS A COMMUNITY, WE SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR THE HIGHEST AND BEST USE FOR THE OVERALL COMMUNITY. MEANING FOR THOSE OF US WHO LEAVE HERE YEAR ROUND NOW AND INTO THE FUTURE, I ALSO WOULD POSIT THAT THERE SHOULD BE A THIRD OPTION IN OUR FUTURE DISCUSSIONS THAT INCLUDES WHAT HAPPENS IF WE CANNOT RESOLVE THIS COMMUNITY DISPUTE REGARDING THE LAND. I AM THEREFORE CURRENTLY OPPOSED TO SPENDING TIME, STAFF TIME AND COMMUNITY FUNDS ON ANOTHER POLL UNTIL THERE'S SOMETHING MORE SUBSTANTIAL BEING PROPOSED. OKAY, CHARLOTTE, WELL I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMISSIONER DUNN'S, UM, NOT COMMISSIONER, SORRY, COUNCIL WRONG, WRONG. IT STARTS WITH A C. IT'S OKAY. YEAH. UM, I APPRECIATE THE COMPLEXITIES YOU SET OUT, ALL OF WHICH ARE VERY VALID. I ALSO APPRECIATE WHAT KATHY'S SAYING ABOUT WE, WE'VE GOT A LOG JAM HERE AND I THINK I I, AND I REALLY APPRECIATE PUTTING IN THE, UH, LAST [03:40:01] YEAR SURVEY RESULTS. I'LL LOOK AT THIS AS THAT ONE, THE JANUARY 25 AS A SORT OF POINT IN TIME GAUGING OF INTEREST, IF WE LOOK AT IT AS A BASELINE AND THEN LOOK AT DOING ANOTHER ONE NOW TO SEE. HAS, HAS SENTIMENT CHANGED? YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN MORE DISCUSSION. WHAT HAVE PEOPLE PICKED UP ON NOW AS THEY'VE HAD TIME TO THINK ABOUT IT? I DON'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH DOING ANOTHER SURVEY. I TOTALLY AGREE THAT IT NEEDS TO BE A MULTI-QUESTION SURVEY, NOT A ONE QUESTION SURVEY. IT'S NOT AN INORDINATE AMOUNT OF MONEY. IT'S SORT OF CHICKEN AND EGG OF DO WE BUILD IT AND THEN SEE IF THEY LIKE IT OR NOT BUILD IT, BUT CONCEPTUALIZE IT COMPLETELY AND THEN SEE IF THEY LIKE IT. OR DO WE CONTINUE TO TAKE INPUT IN AS MANY FORMS AS WE CAN? I DON'T THINK YOU CAN OVER COMMUNICATE. AND SO I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF A, A SURVEY AT THIS POINT, NOT MONTHS AND MONTHS AND MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD TO HELP US REFINE WHAT WE WANNA LOOK FOR OR PERHAPS ELIMINATE COMPLETELY, UM, SOME ASPECTS FOR HOW, FOR HOW THE WESTERN GATEWAY DEVELOPS. SO I, I'M IN FAVOR OF THE SURVEY AT THIS POINT. SO IT'S NOT THE COMMUNITY, NOT ONLY THE COMMUNITY THAT IS AT LOGGERHEAD, IT'S THIS DIOCESE THAT'S AT A LOGGERHEAD. AND AS I RECALL AT OUR RETREAT, WE WERE GOING TO NOT ONLY ASK A QUESTION ABOUT AN AMPHITHEATER, WE'RE ALSO GONNA ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT HOUSING, WHICH I DON'T SEE HERE AT ALL. DID YOU HAVE THAT COMMUNICATION WITH THE, IT'S IN THE SURVEY POSTER COMPANIES. IT IS, EXCUSE ME, MAYOR, IT IS HIGHLIGHTED IN THE AGENDA BILL THAT YOU ASKED FOR SOME QUESTION AROUND, YEAH. NUMBER OF HOUSING UNITS AS WELL AS THE AMPHITHEATER. WELL, I I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS HOUSING THE NUMBER OF HOUSING UNITS VER VERSUS DO YOU WANT HOUSING ON THIS PROPERTY? BUT HAVING SAID THAT, DID YOU HAVE THAT DISCUSSION? UM, IT WAS COMMUNICATED WITH THE FIRMS AND IT HAS BEEN A PART OF OUR CONVERSATIONS. SO, UM, IF THERE'S A WILLINGNESS TO, UH, PROVIDE MORE SPECIFIC DIRECTION, I THINK ANY OF THE FIRMS WOULD BE HAPPY TO INCLUDE THAT AS PART OF THIS PROCESS. SO THAT'S, IT'S NOT BUILT INTO THE PRICE. UM, I, SO WHAT WAS COMMUNICATED TO US IS THAT, UM, ADDING, UH, TOPICS OR QUESTIONS DOES NOT NECESSARILY CHANGE THE PRICE POINT. IT'S REALLY THE VOLUME OR THE QUANTITY OF, UH, QUESTIONS OVER A CERTAIN NUMBER. SO ADDING ONE OR A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT WILL NOT CHANGE THE PRICE. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN IN THE NEXT MONTH OR SO, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A PRESENTATION BY TONY AND TEAM ON HOUSING IN GENERAL. NOT CULTURAL PARKS SPECIFICALLY, BUT WHAT OUR HOUSING NEEDS ARE AS A COMMUNITY THAT WILL INFORM WHAT WE NEED AND WHERE WE NEED IT. WE'RE ALSO GOING TO HAVE, UH, THE CULTURAL PARK 2.0. PEOPLE COME BACK, THEY SENT US A LETTER ASKING FOR SOME TIME TO, UH, FOR US TO GRANT THEM SOME TIME TO WORK OUT SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WE'VE ASKED. SO WE'RE GONNA GIVE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME BACK TO COUNCIL AND TALK THROUGH THAT AND GIVE US MORE INFORMATION. ALL OF THAT WILL OCCUR IN THE FEBRUARY AND MARCH. WELL REALLY MARCH, RIGHT? SO PERHAPS I WOULDN'T GUARANTEE IT, BUT PERHAPS AFTER THAT WE WOULD HAVE MORE DATA, MORE INFORMATION. MAYBE WE COULD HAVE ANOTHER CONVERSATION AND MAYBE WE WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT MORE ALIGNED. I DON'T KNOW. 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW WE'RE STUCK. I DON'T HEAR A MAJORITY EITHER WAY. THERE WAS FOUR VOTES TO DO A POLL. , I DON'T KNOW. LET'S SEE. ARE THERE, I'M IN FAVOR OF A POLL. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A SINGLE QUESTION, BUT THEY HAVE TO BE NEUTRAL QUESTIONS, NOT, DO YOU SUPPORT AN AMPHITHEATER IF WE HAVE TO SUPPORT IT WITH ATTACKS? 'CAUSE WE KNOW DAMN WELL PEOPLE ARE GONNA SAY NO. WELL, YOU'RE NOT GONNA DESIGN THE POLL, RIGHT? NO. NONE OF US ARE GONNA WRITE THE QUESTIONS FOR THE POLL. THE POLLSTER'S GONNA WRITE THE QUESTIONS, BUT WITH THE DIRECTION I, BUT WORKING WITH STAFF THAT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY WE'LL BE, I I JUST DON'T WANT TO END UP RIGHT BACK WHERE WE ARE. WHERE PEOPLE SAY, WELL, THESE WERE LEADING QUESTIONS. THESE WERE, I MEAN, 'CAUSE I, WELL, IF A POLLSTER, IF WE WRITE THE QUESTIONS, WE SAY, OH, WE WANT YOU TO DO THIS, THIS, AND THIS, THEN THEY'RE, THEY'RE SLANTED QUESTIONS. A POLLSTER SHOULD BE ABLE TO WRITE QUESTIONS KNOWING WHAT, WHAT WE INFORMATION WE NEED [03:45:01] THAT ARE AS ALL POLLS ARE BIASED, BUT AS UNBIASED AS IT COULD POSSIBLY BE. BUT HOLD ON A SECOND. UH, SO YOU WANT A POLL? YOU WANT A POLL? YOU WANT A POLL? YOU WANT A POLL? I WANT A POLL. OKAY. SO THERE'S FOUR PEOPLE WHO WANT A POLL. WHEN DO YOU WANT THAT POLL? YOU WANT IT NOW? I THINK THE POINTS YOU MADE ABOUT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION IN THE FEBRUARY MARCH TIMEFRAME MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. BUT I THINK IT'S STILL, AND AFTER THAT, EVEN IF WE'RE NOT TOTALLY SATISFIED WITH WHAT WE'VE LEARNED, THERE COMES A POINT WHERE WE'VE GOTTA DO SOMETHING. MM-HMM . SO I'M PERFECTLY HAPPY WAITING TILL AFTER THOSE TWO PRESENTATIONS THAT, THAT MAKES SENSE TO ME. PETE, I I WOULD BE HAPPY WITH, UH, STARTING ENGAGEMENT WITH A POLLING FIRM AND THINKING THROUGH THE QUESTIONS AND WAIT FOR THE MARCH BEFORE WE GO OUT TO THE FIELD. BUT I WANNA BE READY DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS IN OUR HOUSING STUDY. OKAY, KATHY? YEAH, I COULD GO WITH THAT. DEREK. SOONER THE BETTER. HMM. SOONER THE BETTER. I MEAN, WE CAN WAIT, WHATEVER, BUT I MEAN, WE NEED TO STOP WRINGING OUR HANDS ABOUT THIS. IF 60% SAY, YAY, WE WANT THE AMPHITHEATER, THEN THAT'S THE DIRECTION WE NEED TO START LOOKING TOWARD. AND IF 60% SAY NO, THEN I'D BE IN FAVOR OF TEARING IT DOWN THE NEXT DAY. . BUT WE JUST, WE DON'T KNOW. WE, I DON'T THINK PEOPLE WANT IT. TIM THINKS PEOPLE DO WANT IT. I DON'T KNOW. I JUST WANT, I WANT THE ANSWER. AND I THINK THE SOONER, YOU KNOW, NOTHING VENTURED, NOTHING GAINED. IT'S NOT A LOT OF MONEY. IT'S AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF INFORMATION THAT WE NEED BEFORE I THINK WE GET INTO ALL THIS OTHER STUFF ABOUT, OKAY, AND HOW COULD IT BE FUNDED AND HOW COULD IT BE THIS AND HOW COULD IT BE THAT AND HOW WOULD IT OFFSET SOME OTHER POTENTIAL USES? WE JUST, WE NEED TO GAUGE THE TEMPERATURE OF THE COMMUNITY. AND HOPEFULLY IT DOESN'T COME OUT 50 50. HOPEFULLY WE'VE GOT A PRETTY, HOPEFULLY WE'VE GOT A PRETTY CLEAR INDICATION, ONE DIRECTION OR THE OTHER. AND I DON'T CARE WHAT IT IS AS LONG AS IT'S, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING WE CAN WORK WITH. LISTEN, SEE, I DON'T THINK IT'S AS SIMPLE AS SAYING IT'S ABOUT HOUSING OR IT'S ABOUT THE AMPHITHEATER. THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER PIECES THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT AS A COMMUNITY. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT A REC CENTER, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT FESTIVAL SPACE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT A SMALLER AMPHITHEATER. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT OPEN PARK SPACE. WE NOW HAVE SIF THAT'S SITTING IN THERE. SO THIS ISN'T JUST, IS IT HOUSING OR THE AMPHITHEATER? THIS IS, THERE'S ANOTHER PACKAGE HERE AND WE HAVE TO FIND OUT, ARE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN THAT PACKAGE OF THINGS THAT INCLUDE, YOU KNOW, A FESTIVAL SPACE THAT INCLUDES A REC CENTER THAT INCLUDES, YOU KNOW, A SMALLER AMPHITHEATER FOR LOCAL CONCERTS, WHETHER IT INCLUDES, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER, THIS CAN'T JUST BE HOUSING VERSUS, YOU KNOW, UH, CP 2.0. THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT, BECAUSE WE'RE NEVER USING ALL THAT SPACE FOR HOUSING. WE DIDN'T LIKE HIGH DENSITY HOUSING. SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE WHEN I PUT ALL THOSE OTHER PIECES TOGETHER. SO YOU WANNA WAIT, I WANT, I WANT IT TO BE A FAIR POLL AND IT'S NOT A FAIR POLL IF YOU SAY VOTE FOR A BIG AMPHITHEATER OR NOT VOTE FOR HOUSING OR NOT THAT, THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT A FAIR ASSESSMENT HERE. AND, AND OTHERWISE YOU'RE JUST REPEATING THE JANUARY 25TH OR 2025 POLL. RIGHT? THOSE WERE THE SAME SETS OF QUESTIONS. WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT YOU WANNA SEE AS FAR AS REC CENTERS AND ALL THIS OTHER STUFF? SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE, IF WE'RE JUST DOING THAT, THEN LET'S TAKE THE, THE JANUARY, 2025 POLL OR WHATEVER IT WAS. LET'S SEND IT OFF TO THE POLLSTERS AND SAY FIX THE QUESTIONS BECAUSE MAYBE WE DIDN'T ASK THEM CORRECTLY. BUT I FEEL LIKE IT'S NOT AS SIMPLE AS JUST AMPHITHEATER OR NO AMPHITHEATER. THERE IS A WHOLE PACKAGE HERE. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE YET. AND I THINK IT'S UNFAIR FOR US TO SAY, THINK ABOUT ALL THIS STUFF, BUT YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE. IT JUST FEELS PREMATURE. CHANGE ANYBODY'S MIND. NO. OKAY. BRIAN? YEAH, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S CHANGING THEIR MINDS AT THIS POINT. UM, I JUST DON'T SEE WHAT THE HURRY IS. LIKE I, I'M NOT UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE, THE LOG JAM RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH MORE INFORMATION WE STILL NEED TO GET, LIKE FINISHING UP OUR HOUSING STRATEGY. ARE WE GONNA ACTUALLY HAVE THAT AT THE END OF THE MEETING IN MARCH? OR IS THAT REALLY JUST GONNA BE SOME MEANINGFUL PROGRESS TOWARDS ONE AT THAT POINT? LIKE WHAT'S OUR TARGET FOR REALLY WHAT'S THE OUTCOME THAT DAY? THAT'S GOOD. OKAY. UM, SO WHAT WE'LL BE PRESENTING, WHAT WE'LL BE PRESENTING IN [03:50:01] FEBRUARY WILL BE STATISTICS, RIGHT? AND, AND THAT WON'T BE A PRESENTATION. THAT'LL BE, UM, JUST THE MATERIAL FOR YOU TO LOOK AT OVER THE COURSE OF THE MONTH. AND THEN COME MARCH WE'LL HAVE THE STATISTICS PLUS SOME ADDITIONAL DATA. UM, WE EXPECT TO HAVE THE FULL FIRST SECTION WHERE THE STAFF'S WORK IS DONE AT, YOU KNOW, IN THE BALLPARK OF APRIL, BUT YOU WILL BE GETTING PROBABLY 75% OF WHAT WE WOULD HAVE FROM THE STAFF PERSPECTIVE. THAT WILL INCLUDE THE NUMBERS. UM, SO YOU'LL BE ABLE TO HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT THE TARGETS SHOULD BE, UM, BASED ON SOME OF THAT DATA. FROM THAT POINT, WE'LL BE JUST SPOT CHECKING WITH STAKEHOLDERS AND SEEING, UM, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE MISSED, QUITE FRANKLY. OKAY. THANK YOU TONY. CERTAINLY. SO I, I I THINK IT'S STILL JUST CRAZY PREMATURE RIGHT NOW TO BE DOING THIS. UM, THE CITY MANAGER'S RECOMMENDATION I THINK IS STRONG THAT, UH, AT LEAST WAITING UNTIL THE FALL SO THAT SOME OF THIS OTHER WORK CAN BE COMPLETED, I THINK IS A PRUDENT RECOMMENDATION. AND WHILE I WOULD PREFER TO JUST INDEFINITELY DEFER A SURVEY SINCE I, A MAJORITY OF MY COLLEAGUES ARE CERTAIN THEY WANT ONE, THEN I WOULD AT LEAST SUGGEST LET'S FOLLOW THE CITY MANAGER'S RECOMMENDATION, WHICH COUNCILOR FURMAN, I BELIEVE YOU DID SAY YOU FOUND THAT TO BE SOMETHING WORTH PAYING ATTENTION TO. SO, UH, I JUST DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE RUSHING TO GET THESE QUESTIONS ANSWERED SO I CAN LIVE WITH THE CITY MANAGER'S RECOMMENDATION. I'M CURIOUS IF MY COLLEAGUES THAT WANT A SURVEY, IF THEY CAN LIVE WITH THAT RECOMMENDATION. I, I'D LIKE TO RESPOND SINCE MY NAME WAS CALLED OUT THERE AND, AND ALTHOUGH I, I DO, UH, THINK VERY THOUGHTFULLY OF THE CITY MANAGER'S RECOMMENDATION, BUT WAITING TILL THE FALL, IT'S JUST LIKE, IS A GUARANTEE TO LOSE IF A BALLOT PROPOSITION, UH, FALLS ON THE BALLOT. THAT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE, YOU'VE MADE THE DECISION BY NOT DOING ANYTHING. SO, OKAY. SO YOU HEARD WHAT TONY HAD TO SAY IN MARCH. IT SHOULD BE PRETTY CLOSE BY APRIL. WE'LL HAVE EVERYTHING. ARE YOU WILLING TO WAIT TILL APRIL FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO WANNA SURVEY? I AM NOT. YOU'RE NOT? I'M NOT WILLING TO WAIT. NO. WHAT AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? WAIT TILL WE START THE PROCESS IN APRIL OR WE'RE READY TO GO IN APRIL. I THINK WE START THE PROCESS WHEN IT CAN BE READY. I'M NOT SAYING WE START IT TOMORROW, BUT WHATEVER WE NEED TO DO TO ENGAGE THE SURVEY AND GET THE BALL ROLLING, I THINK WE DO IT AND I THINK WE CONSIDER THE RESPONSES WE RECEIVE IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT WE HEAR FROM TONY AND WHAT WE HEAR FROM. SO, I MEAN, I I JUST SAY GET THE BALL ROLLING. YOU WANNA DO A SURVEY RIGHT NOW WITHOUT ANY OF THIS INFORMATION? YES. OKAY. CHARLOTTE, YOU WERE WILLING TO WAIT TILL MARCH? I WAS WILLING TO WAIT TILL MARCH. I WOULD, I WOULD HOPE THAT THE SURVEY, WHILE IT MIGHT ASK SOME HOUSING QUESTIONS, WOULD BE, IT WOULD NOT BE SIMPLY HOUSING VERSUS, UH, CP 2.0. IT WOULD BE MAYBE RECREATION IN GENERAL TO TRY TO GAUGE SOME, UM, INTEREST IN A REC CENTER OR MORE OPEN SPACE OR WHATEVER, DIFFERENT SIZES OF, OF, OF OPEN AIR VENUES. I, I WOULD BE WILLING TO WAIT, BUT I TOTALLY AGREE WITH PETE THAT IF WE DON'T HAVE A PLAN THAT WE CAN COME AROUND, COME TOGETHER ON THAT WE FEEL THE CITIZENS CAN COME TOGETHER ON AND HAVE IT AS AN ALTERNATIVE. SHOULD THERE BE AN INITIATIVE ON THE BALLOT, THEN WE'RE SUNK. I REALLY FEEL THAT VERY STRONGLY. SO THE SURVEY WILL INFORM US, BUT OTHER THINGS HAVE TO BE GOING ON AT THIS, YOU KNOW, AND WE CAN DO THE SURVEY AT A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT POINTS IN TIME, BUT WE, WE'VE GOTTA KEEP ON WITH THE OTHER WORK AND, AND WELL WE ARE PART OF THAT IS WAITING FOR THAT, RIGHT? YEAH. SO I GUESS TO, ARE YOU WILLING TO WAIT TILL TONY FINISHES? IS THAT EARLY APRIL? END OF MAR? WHEN IS IT? IT WILL ADMITTEDLY BE CLOSER TO THE END OF APRIL. MID TO TO END OF APRIL. SEE, AND I DON'T THINK IT NEEDS TO BE, I DON'T THINK THE SURVEY NEEDS TO BE SO HEAVILY WEIGHTED TOWARDS HOUSING BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TYPES OF HOUSING, UM, TO WAIT FOR THAT WELL, TO WAIT THAT LONG. MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT FEARMONGERING BEFORE, BELIEVE THAT I'VE HEARD EVERYTHING, BUT BELIEVE THAT IT'S GONNA BE, UH, SECTION EIGHT HOUSING [03:55:01] SEVEN STORIES OF SECTION EIGHT HOUSING. RIGHT. SO HAVING THE INFORMATION ABOUT THE TYPES IS GONNA HELP WITH THAT ISSUE. YEAH. AND THAT'S BEING PRESENTED IN 75% IN MARCH. CORRECT? IT'S SO, I, I THINK THE SURVEY NEEDS TO BE REALLY ABOUT CULTURE OF THE WHAT, THE AMPHITHEATER, WHETHER WE KEEP THAT DAY THAT THING OR NOT. AND THEN IT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE TO TALK ABOUT HOUSING YET. HOUSING CAN COME WHEN WE HAVE, IF WE CAN COME TO SOME TYPE OF AGREEMENT ABOUT HOUSING NUMBERS AND THEN ALL THE OTHER OPTIONS, ALL THE OTHER AMENITIES, WERE GONNA BE PART OF THE FUTURE CONVERSATION ANYHOW. THAT WAS PROGRAMMED TO BE HAD AT SOME POINT DURING THIS PROCESS. WE DO REALIZE THAT EVERY TIME WE HAVE THIS CONVERSATION, WE DO A COMPLETE MM-HMM . 3, 180, 360, WHATEVER. WE COMPLETELY CHANGE OUR MIND. I DON'T KNOW THAT I AGREE WITH THAT. MAYOR. THAT'S A VERY GOOD, WELL YOU ARE THE ONE WHO, WHO SAID YOU WANTED HAVE HOUSING, BUT THERE'S NEW INFORMATION HERE. THERE'S NEW INFORMATION. I, IT'S OLD INFORMATION, BUT IT WAS NEW INFORMATION. MY POSITION ABOUT GETTING READY TO HAVE SOME ALTERNATIVE FOR A BA A POTENTIAL BALLOT INITIATIVE. IT, IT HASN'T CHANGED ONE IOTA. WE'VE ACTUALLY LOST TIME. WE'VE WASTED TIME GETTING READY FOR THAT. AND SO I THINK WE SHOULD ASK THE CP QUESTION AND, AND LIKE, COUNCILLOR FI DON'T, I PREFER AN OUTCOME, BUT IF IT COMES THAT THIS COMMUNITY WANTS, UH, TO RESTORE THAT, THAT AMPHITHEATER, THEN THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD DO. BUT WE, WE GOTTA GET OFF, WE GOTTA GET OFF CENTER ON THIS THING. AND SO MY PREFERENCE WOULD BE TO HIRE THE FIRM, GET A CONTRACT, GET SOME EXPERT OPINIONS ABOUT THE QUESTIONS, BRING IT BACK TO US ABOUT, LET'S SEE WHAT IT'S GOING. BUT YOU KNOW, IF IT, I'M NOT REAL COMFORTABLE WAITING TO THE END OF MARCH THAT THAT'S, THAT'S TOO LONG. BUT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WILL CLARIFY ITSELF FROM THE CONTRACTORS AND FROM OUR OWN FURTHER THINKING, YOU KNOW, HERE IN FEBRUARY THAT, THAT WE WOULD BE THE, A MAJORITY OF COUNCIL WOULD BE READY TO GO FOR A POLL OR NOT. [10. EXECUTIVE SESSION ] I'D LIKE TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION. CAN WE HAVE A MOTION? IS ANYBODY WILLING TO DO THAT? WHAT'S THE, YOU GOTTA SAY THE REASON, UH, FOR LEGAL ADVICE AND I, I'LL READ IT. UPON A PUBLIC MAJORITY VOTE OF THE MEMBERS CONSTITUTING A QUORUM, THE COUNCIL MAY HOLD AN EXECUTIVE SESSION THAT'S NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC FOR THE FOLLOWING PURPOSES. TO CONSULT WITH LEGAL COUNSEL FOR ADVICE ON MATTERS LISTED ON THE AGENDA PER A RS 30. CAN'T EVEN READ THIS. 38 DASH 4 31 0.0 3.03 A THREE. SO MOVED SECOND. OKAY, WE'LL BE BACK. DO WE NEED TO VOTE ON IT? WE WE NEED A VOTE FAVOR, AYE. AYE. THANK YOU. JOKING. HERE WE GO. OKAY, WE'RE BACK. SO WHERE WE LEFT OFF WAS THERE WERE FOUR PEOPLE WHO WANTED A SURVEY AND ONE WANTED IT IMMEDIATELY. TWO WANTED IT IMMEDIATELY, MAYBE THREE. I CA KATHY, YOU HAVEN'T WEIGHED IN. SO I, AGAIN, I'M CONCERNED THAT IF WE PUT IT OFF THE, AND WAIT FOR THE INFORMATION THAT COMES FORWARD FEBRUARY AND THEN MARCH, WE'RE GONNA HAVE MORE QUESTIONS THAT PUT IT OFF TILL APRIL AND MAY. AND THAT IT DOESN'T, IT'S TIME WHERE IT, IT'S NO LONGER THAT USEFUL TO US. SO I AM NOT WILLING, I I DO NOT SUPPORT WAITING. I WANT A REASONABLE TIME TO GET SOME OF THE PRELIMINARY, BUT IF WE CAN'T GET THAT IN EARLY MARCH, I CAN'T GO BEYOND THAT. WHEN, WHEN ARE YOU SCHEDULED TONY? IN MARCH? OR DO WE 21ST, FIRST SCHEDULED IN FEBRUARY, RIGHT? YEAH, FOR, THERE'S A FEBRUARY 24TH BASIC UPDATE IS WHAT I HEARD. YEAH, THAT WOULD JUST BE THE DOCU. OH, IS THIS, IS THIS ONE WORKING NOW? OKAY. IT WOULD BE THE BASIC, IT WOULD BE THE STATISTICS THAT WE WOULD DELIVER AS PART OF A REPORT. OKAY. SEE, I DON'T THINK THAT FOR ME DOESN'T YIELD ANYTHING THAT'S AS RELEVANT TO THE SURVEY, WHICH IS TRYING TO GET TO THE HEART OF THE QUESTION OF DOES THE COMMUNITY WANT THE AMPHITHEATER? UM, SO I DON'T, I DON'T SEE THE REASON TO WAIT. AND WHEN IS THE 2.0 [04:00:01] PEOPLE? IS THAT MARCH 10TH? UH, WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THAT AT THE UPCOMING MEETING SCHEDULE ITEM, BUT TENTATIVELY AS MARCH 10TH IS THE DATE THAT WAS RECOMMENDED. MARCH 10TH. WAIT, JUST AFTER THAT, DOES THAT CHANGE ANYBODY'S POSITION OR ARE YOU WILLING TO WAIT TILL THEN AFTER THEN MELISSA, WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THIS LATER. I'M NOT HERE ON THE 10TH OF MARCH, AND SO I'D REALLY LIKE FOR IT TO BE PUSHED TO WHEN I AM BACK, WHICH IS THE 24TH OF MARCH, THE NEXT SESSION. EXCUSE ME, ME, ME. OH, I'M SORRY. GO. GO AHEAD ANNETTE. NO, TONY'S SECOND MEETING IS SCHEDULED FOR EITHER THE 24TH OR 25TH OF MARCH, RIGHT? FOR THE SECOND PIECE OF DATA. 25TH. 25TH. IT'S, IT'S PART OF THE JOINT WORK SESSION WITH THE SCHOOL BOARD. IT'S ON MARCH 25TH. UM, ONE THING YOU COULD THINK ABOUT IS THE LEAD TIME IT TAKES TO AND BACK UP. SO WHEN DO YOU WANNA KNOW THE ANSWER? AND THEN IT TAKES ROUGHLY, POTENTIALLY TWO MONTHS FOR THE WHOLE SURVEY COMPILATION PROCESS IS WHAT I HEARD. 60 DAYS POTENTIALLY THAT'S CORRECT. FROM START TO FINISH. SO IF YOU KNOW WHEN YOU WANT THE ANSWER BY, THEN YOU CAN BACK UP TO WHEN WE NEED TO GET STARTED, IF THAT HELPS YOU. WELL, WHAT I'M HEARING IS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. RIGHT. SO THAT WOULD POSSIBLY COINCIDE WITH THE END OF MARCH. YEAH, MARCH 27TH AND 60 DAYS OUT. SO WELL FROM TODAY, FINE. I, UM, I'M NOT CLEAR WHAT WE DECIDED WE WERE ASKING ON THIS SURVEY. SO I HEARD WE ORIGINALLY SAID HOUSING AND, UH, THE AMPHITHEATER, THEN I HEARD IT'S NOT THE AMPHITHEATER AND HOUSING, IT'S THE WHOLE PACKAGE. THEN I HEARD WE DON'T NEED HOUSING, WE JUST NEED THE AMPHITHEATER. SO DID, WERE YOU CLEAR ON WHAT WE WERE ASKING? I WOULD VALUE SOME CLEARER DIRECTION . THANK YOU. SO WHO WANTS TO SO FRAME IT. SO IIII I'M NOT READY TO FRAME IT, BUT I, MY CONCERN IS THAT IF THERE IS SUPPORT IN THE COMMUNITY ONCE IN AMPHITHEATER, THAT TAKES UP A LOT OF SPACE DOWN THERE, WHICH THEN PRECLUDES OTHER USES THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT A FULLY AS, THIS IS YOUR COMMENTS BEFORE COUNCILOR DUNN, UM, A FULLY VETTED PLAN THAT HAD CULTURAL AND OPEN SPACE AND HOUSING AND PUBLIC RECREATION IN WHATEVER WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM THAT MIGHT TAKE. UM, AND ALL OF THESE THINGS MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE WITH A, IF THE AMPHITHEATER REMAINS BECAUSE OF THE FOOTPRINT OF THE AMPHITHEATER AND THE PARKING THAT IS NEEDED TO GO AT THE AMPHITHEATER AND WHATEVER ELSE. UM, SO IT'S IMPORTANT AGAIN TO ME TO KNOW THAT IF THE AMPHITHEATER'S GONNA BE A KEY PLAYER OR NOT SOONER THAN LATER AS WE GO DOWN THIS PATH OF TRYING TO DEVELOP OUR, OUR THOUGHTS AROUND THIS. SO THAT BRINGS ME BACK TO A SOONER THAN LATER SURVEY QUESTION. WELL, WE, WE'VE DECIDED IT'S SOONER THAN LATER, BUT WE HAVEN'T DECIDED IS THE SUBSTANCE OF THE QUESTIONS. WELL AGAIN, I THINK PART OF THAT IS THAT STAFF NEEDS TO WORK WITH, BUT IT HAS TO DO, HAVE TO BE BACKGROUND QUESTIONS THAT FRAME IT IN TERMS OF IS IT A PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP WHO'S FUNDING? NO, NO, NOT THAT. WHAT ARE YOU ASKING FOR? YOU, YOU WANNA WRITE QUESTIONS? NO, I DON'T. I'M TRYING TO GIVE, I DON'T, I DON'T WANNA WRITE THE QUESTIONS, BUT I WANNA, BUT I WANT ANSWERS. I NEED INFORMATION AS A RESULT OF THE QUESTION. YES. BUT WHAT ARE WE ASKING? WE, WHICH TOPICS, I GUESS, RIGHT, WHAT TOPICS, WHAT TOPICS DO YOU WANT THE QUESTIONS TO BE TIED TO? BECAUSE I HEAR IT'S A PACKAGE AND WE WANNA KNOW WHAT THE COMMUNITY, DO THEY WANT A RECREATION CENTER? DO THEY WANT, AND SOME OF YOU ARE SAYING, I JUST WANNA KNOW IF THEY WANT A AMPHITHEATER AND NOTHING ELSE. IS THAT THE F ARE, ARE THE, ARE THERE FOUR VOTES FOR AN AM VIEW AMPHITHEATER OR NOTHING ELSE? MY VIEW IS THE AMPHITHEATER. NO. ASK DIFFERENT QUESTIONS TO, YOU KNOW, DO YOU WANT TO, DO YOU SUPPORT A 5,000 SEATING AMPHITHEATER? DO YOU SUPPORT A 2000 SEATING AMPHITHEATER? DO YOU, YOU KNOW, I, FOR ME THE MAIN QUESTION IS THE AMPHITHEATER BECAUSE IT COVERS, I MEAN, EVERYTHING ELSE IS DICTATED. IF THE PUBLIC WANTS A 5,000 SEAT AMPHITHEATER, THEN I THINK WE FIGURE OUT A WAY TO TRY TO GIVE THEM THE 5,000 SEAT AMPHITHEATER KNOWING THAT THAT'S GONNA PRECLUDE MOST OTHER USES. YOU KNOW, PUBLIC [04:05:01] HAS TO KNOW THAT IN, IN THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE INDICATED, AND THIS IS WHERE WE COME BACK TO THE PROBLEM. OKAY? BUT THIS IS WHERE WE'RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO THE PLAN THAT WAS SUBMITTED TO US, WHICH SHOWED RECREATION AREA, I MEAN A, A OPEN SPACE AREA HOUSING AMONGST THE AMPHITHEATER. SO YOU'RE ASSUMING IT'S AMPHITHEATER AND NOTHING ELSE FITS ON THE PROPERTY. BUT WE SAW A PLAN THAT DID THAT DEBUNKS, THAT THAT PLAN DIDN'T HAVE THE 5,000 SEAT EMPATHY. YES, IT DID. YES IT DID. I DON'T RECALL THAT WAS PRESENTED BY THE 2.0 PEOPLE. OH, THE TWO OH OH, I THOUGHT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT. NO, NO, NO. AND IT HAD THE, IT HAD HOUSED, IT HAD ALL HAD A BUNCH OF THINGS ON IT. SO IT'S NOT ALL OR NOTHING. SEE, TO ME, THAT THEN BIASES THE SURVEY, THAT SITE PLAN ALSO ASSUMED THAT THEY WERE GONNA BE ABLE TO GET A BUNCH OF OFFSITE PARKING AND PARK AT THE DELLS AND SHUTTLE FROM THE DELLS AND FROM, I MEAN, THAT WAS NOT A SELF-CONTAINED SITE PLAN THAT I RECALL. I MEAN, I, MY RECOLLECTION FROM THE DISCUSSION WAS THEY WERE GONNA, THE WAY THEY WERE GONNA MAKE ROOM FOR ALL THESE OTHER THINGS WAS PULLING IN, YOU KNOW, PARKING AT THE SCHOOL AND PARKING AT THE HILTON AND PARKING AT THE DELLS. AND I MEAN, SO, RIGHT. IS THAT A PROBLEM? I MEAN, OR IS THAT A RED HERRING? I, I'M, I DON'T UNDERSTAND. LIKE, IF THEY CAN MAKE IT WORK, WHAT'S IT MATTER IF THEY CAN? WELL, BUT I MEAN, CAN THEY MAKE IT WORK ? WELL, NO. CAN THEY MAKE IT WORK WITH WHAT I MEAN, AGAIN, YOU ARE NOW, IF THE DELLS IS PART OF THEIR PARKING PLAN, A PARKING PLAN, I DON'T KNOW THAT THE DES IS AVAILABLE FOR THAT. SO HOW CAN YOU KNOW? I WE HAVEN'T HAD THAT DISCUSSION AT ALL BECAUSE WE, SO THAT SHOULDN'T BE ON THE TABLE. I MEAN, WE'RE INVITED THEM BACK TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION. AND SO YOU ARE, GO AHEAD. YOU WANTED TO TELL NO, NO, YOU GO, MARY, YOU GOT THIS. SO YOU ARE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS WHEN YOU HAVEN'T HEARD THE PLAN. ONCE YOU HEAR THE PLAN, THEN YOU CAN DECIDE WHETHER YOU THINK IT'S VALID OR NOT VALID OR DOABLE OR NOT DOABLE. THE QUESTIONS, THE SURVEY QUESTION NEEDS TO BE ABOUT THE AMPHITHEATER. IF THE AMPHITHEATER IS A SUPPORTED THING BY OUR COMMUNITY, THEN WE MAKE WHATEVER USE WE CAN OF THE REST OF THE PROPERTY. WE DON'T HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THAT. WE JUST NEED TO GAUGE WHETHER IN JANUARY OF LAST YEAR, 57.6% OF US SAID THEY DON'T WANT ANYTHING LARGER THAN THE POSSE GROUNDS. REALLY? I MEAN, MAYBE WE'VE ALREADY ASKED THIS QUESTION, BUT WE CAN ASK IT AGAIN. I'M WILLING TO ASK IT AGAIN. I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. I I DON'T KNOW WHERE, WHAT THE ANSWERS ARE GONNA BE, BUT THAT'S WHAT WE FOCUS ON. IT WOULD EVEN INFORM OUR CONVERSATION WITH THE CP TWO GROUP WHEN THEY COME BACK. IF WE CAN GET RESULTS BEFORE THAT. I MEAN, WELL, WE CAN'T, I MEAN, IT'S, I I REALLY DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE A SINGLE QUESTION. IT'S NOT A SINGLE QUESTION. IT, YOU DO THE SURVEY, PEOPLE ARE GONNA GIVE US SOME RECOMMENDATIONS. THEY CAN GIVE US SOME INPUT TOO ABOUT WHETHER WE COMPLICATE IT WITH HOUSING OR WE JUST ASK A SIMPLE QUESTION. I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT. THERE ARE EXPERTS THAT DO, AND I, I'D HATE TO FOR US TO HAVE THAT MAKE THAT DECISION WITHOUT GETTING INPUT FROM WELL, THANK YOU. THAT'S MY POINT AS WELL. BUT I, I THINK EXPANDING IT TO AT LEAST RECREATIONAL OR CULTURAL OTHER QUESTIONS IS A GOOD USE OF THE SURVEY. AS LONG AS YOU'RE THERE. YOU MIGHT AS WELL GAUGE AT THIS POINT IN TIME, WHAT DO PEOPLE FEEL ABOUT A REC CENTER? WHAT DO PEOPLE FEEL ABOUT DIFFERENT SIZES AS, AS THEY ASKED LAST YEAR OF AMPHITHEATERS? I, I THINK TO JUST FOCUS ON ONE, IT IT, IT BEGS THE QUESTION OF WELL THEN WHAT'S THE ALTERNATIVE? I MEAN, WHAT AM I LEAVING OUT IF I ONLY HAVE THIS, UH, THAT IS GIVING PEOPLE AN INCOMPLETE PICTURE. SO IF WE'RE GOING TO ASK THE QUESTION, IT SHOULD BE SEVERAL QUESTIONS. AND, AND FROM THAT WE CAN PROBABLY SEE WHICH WAY PEOPLE ARE LEANING BIGGER, SMALLER. BUT WHEN WE ASK, WE'VE DONE THIS, WHEN WE ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT RECREATION STUFF, YOU GET A POSITIVE ANSWER AND THEN YOU ASK A QUESTION ABOUT DO YOU WANNA PAY FOR IT? AND THEY SAY, NO, NO. THEY SAID THEY DID WANNA PAY FOR IT IN THAT OTHER SURVEY, BUT THEY SAID IN THE ONE THAT WAS INCLUDED IN THE PACKET, THEY'RE WILLING TO PAY THEM. THEY'RE WILLING TO PAY A MONTHLY FEE, BUT THEY DON'T WANT TAXES TO GO UP TO PAY FOR THE ACTUAL CONSTRUCTION. [04:10:01] NO. SO IF YOU'RE GONNA BROADEN THIS THING AND TALK ABOUT THOSE OTHER TOPICS, YOU THROW 20 QUESTIONS AT THIS THING. AND NOW I, I'M REALLY WANNA HEAR WHAT THE EXPERTS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT HOW COMPLICATED WE COULD GET WITH THIS THING. OKAY. SO IT'S OUR DIRECTION TO HAVE STAFF TALK TO THE, UH, POLLSTERS, I'LL CALL THEM POLLSTERS, SURVEYORS TALK, ENTER A CONTRACT AND START WORKING ON IT. CAN YOU, YOU WOULD ASK THEM, YOU WOULD TELL THEM OUR DILEMMA AND GET THEIR ADVICE? YES, I'D BE HAPPY TO DO THAT. WOULD THAT SATISFY EVERYBODY? AND THEN COME BACK IN TWO WEEKS AND WE CAN THEN DECIDE ONCE WE HAVE THEIR ADVICE, THEN WE CAN MAKE A DECISION WITH A CONTRACT. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. NO, I I I'M NOT, I'M NOT DEBATING THAT. WE'LL VOTE WE'LL MAKE A MOTION, BUT IS THAT ACCEPTABLE? IT'S TWO WEEKS. ENOUGH TIME. BRIAN, I'D JUST LIKE TO, UH, FURTHER COMPLICATE AND ADD ON HERE THAT, UM, I THINK THAT WE SHOULD, UH, TO, TO TRY TO AVOID THE CLAIMS OF UNFAIRNESS, OF BIAS, ET CETERA. I THINK WE SHOULD INVITE MR. KOSTER AND REPRESENTATIVE OF 2.0 TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THE QUESTIONS AND PROVIDE INPUT TO US FORMALLY BEFORE THIS THING GETS APPROVED AND SENT OUT. IF YOU COULD ADD THAT BOB COM, UH, EXCUSE ME. UM, ROBERT COSTER. SEDONA, UM, IF YOU GO DOWN THAT PATH, WE'LL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO, AGAIN, I THINK YOU STILL HAVE A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT WHEN AND HOW AND WHAT AND WHERE AND QUESTIONS. UH, BUT AS FAR AS IF CAN PROVIDE VALUE TO IT ONCE YOU DECIDE TO DO IT, BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I I I LOOK AT THE SURVEYS AS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S MANY WAYS YOU CAN SLICE THIS. UM, AND TRYING TO BE IMPARTIAL IS GONNA BE VERY TOUGH TO DO IF YOU HAVE A VERY IMPARTIAL PATH, YOU'RE STARTING IT OFF WITH, THAT'S WHY I'M BRINGING IT UP, OF INVITING YOU TO WEIGH IN ON IT AS WELL AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE 2.0 BOARD, OTHER THAN AT A COUNCIL MEETING, WHAT ARE YOU ASKING FOR? I MEAN, THE STAFF WILL COME BACK WITH AN ANSWER. THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO APPEAR HERE AND ENGAGE WITH US IN THE CONVER YOU ASKING FOR MORE THAN THAT? OR? I, I DON'T SUPPOSE SO. OKAY. I MEAN, CAN CAN I ANSWER THAT OR TRY TO ANSWER THAT? SURE. I MEAN, IF YOU ARE GONNA INVITE SOMEONE FROM SB TO 0.0 AND AND MYSELF IN REPRESENTING THE INITIATIVE, I WOULD SAY LET US WORK TOGETHER IN TERMS OF COBBLING THAT TOGETHER BECAUSE WE CAN HAVE THAT DISCUSSION OUTSIDE OF IT, THEN BRING SOMETHING BACK. THAT MAKES SENSE. OKAY. WHAT HAPPENS ON THE OTHER SIDE COMES AND SAYS, WELL, WE DIDN'T GET TO SPEAK ON, WE THINK THEY'RE, WE THINK THEY'RE BIASED. THE OTHER DIRECT MEAN, I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE YOUR POLLSTER OR WHOEVER YOU HAVE FROM THE CITY COUNCIL, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CITY MANAGEMENT, UH, SHOULD HAVE REPRESENTATION SHOULD HASH IT OUT TOGETHER. I MEAN, IF THAT'S THE CASE, I MEAN, IF YOU'RE TRYING TO FIND IMPARTIALITY, WHICH IS EXTREMELY TOUGH. I MEAN, I, I I, I HEARKEN BACK TO THE SEVENTIES WITH THE BIG SURF PROJECT. I MEAN, WE HAD PROBABLY 20 QUESTIONS AND WE COULD HAVE POLL, YOU KNOW, SCOTTSDALE OR WE COULD POLL SOUTH, UH, WEST, UH, PHOENIX, AND WE WOULD'VE GOT COMPLETELY DIFFERENT RESULTS. UM, WE WOULD'VE, WE COULD'VE ENDED UP, UH, WE COULD'VE ENDED UP WITH, UH, YOU KNOW, A MYRIAD OF QUESTIONS THAT COULD HAVE LANDED IT SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS BASED UPON IT. AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK THAT IF YOU'RE TRYING TO GET AS IMPARTIAL AS YOU CAN, WHICH IS SO TOUGH IN THIS WORLD, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE HAVE REPRESENTING ON MULTIPLE SIDES, HASH IT OUT, THEN BRING IT BACK TO YOU. UM, BUT I THINK YOU NEED TO FIRST DECIDE YOU WANT IT OR NOT. AND MY MY OPINION IS YOU'VE ALREADY DONE IT A COUPLE TIMES, WHY YOU DOING IT AGAIN? BUT THAT'S MY OPINION. BUT I WILL, I I IT'S IMPORTANT ENOUGH IF, IF IF CALLED UPON TO DO IT, BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO, TO, TO PROVIDE TIME TO SUPPORT IT. IF, IF IT'S A VALUE, YOU FEEL IT'S A VALUE. IF YOU DON'T, THEN YOU KNOW, I'LL, I'LL SIT BACK HERE IN THE CHEAP SEATS. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. ALSO. I'M HAP I'M HAPPY TO HAVE THEM INPUT, GIVE INPUT. ANNETTE HAD HER HAND UP. OH, I'M SORRY. I DIDN'T, ANNETTE. OH YEAH, THEY ALREADY, IT'S ONE. YEAH, SORRY ABOUT THAT. SHE WAS JUST CONFIRMING THE OPTION TWO FOR THE MINUTES. UM, I JUST WANTED TO PLEASE RECOMMEND THAT IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE WORKING WITH STAFF FROM, UM, SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS THAT HAVE A SPECIFIC OPINION ABOUT THE PROJECT ALREADY, THAT WE TRY TO BE BALANCED AND HAVE SOMEBODY THAT'S PRO [04:15:01] THE OTHER WAY OR WHATEVER. WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE NEUTRAL. UM, SO IF YOU WANT US TO WORK WITH OUTSIDE PEOPLE TO EVALUATE THIS, YOU SHOULD DO IT FROM A COUPLE OF PERSPECTIVES. JUST LIKE IF YOU'RE INVITING PEOPLE TO WRITE PRO AND CON STATEMENTS FOR BALLOT MEASURE OR WHATEVER, UM, I JUST, I I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED THAT IF WE ONLY HAVE THE PEOPLE IN FAVOR OF THE AMPHITHEATER WEIGHING IN ON THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU WILL TO COUNCILOR FAFS QUESTION OR POINT YOU WILL HAVE PEOPLE UPSET THAT THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO ALSO WEIGH IN MM-HMM . THAT HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING ON OTHER PARTS OF THE PROJECT. AND, AND, AND I, I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. YOU KNOW, UH, I, I THINK IF YOU ARE TRYING TO DO IT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, ONE OF THE BEAUTY OF THIS COUNTRY IS YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE BOTH SIDES ARGUE BOTH SIDES. YOU KNOW, THEY MAY NOT LIKE EACH OTHER, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THEY SHOULD AGREE. UH, AND, AND THAT'S, THAT'S DEMOCRACY. SO, AND I THINK WHEN YOU, IF YOU TRY TO GET FAIR IS YOU SHOULD HAVE REPRESENTATION OF BOTH SIDES. AND, AND THEY SHOULD, WE SHOULD FIND A CONFERENCE ROOM SOMEWHERE AND ARGUE IT OUT. WHATEVER COMES BACK IS HOPEFULLY A CONSENSUS OF THAT GROUP, WHATEVER THAT COMPOSITION IS, UH, TO THEN COME FORWARD AND BRING IT. BUT I, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, YOU HAVE SOME DECISIONS. FIRST, DO YOU DO IT? WHEN DO YOU DO IT? WHAT IS IT GONNA SAY? HOW MANY QUESTIONS ARE THERE GONNA BE IN THERE? WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO REALLY GET AS AN OUTPUT FROM IT? BECAUSE I'LL TELL YOU, YOU KNOW, I WASN'T BORN YESTERDAY. AND, UH, YOU CAN, YOU CAN SLANT THIS SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AND ASK SO MANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU CAN JUST COMPLETELY ITERATE TOO. SO, UM, BUT AGAIN, JUST MY 2 CENTS, UH, BRIAN, I'M HERE TO SUPPORT. THANK YOU. OKAY, SO REPRESENTATIVE THAT'S PRO HOUSING PER SE, RIGHT? I MEAN, I THINK WE CAN ALL GUESS WHO THAT CAN BE, BUT IT'S, IT'S NOT HOUSING VERSUS, I I WASN'T DONE. BUT SOMEBODY THAT ALSO IS OUTDOOR RECREATION ADVOCATE. SOMEBODY THAT'S ARTS ADVOCATE, LIKE I, I DISAGREE WITH THAT. SPEED A MEETING. I THINK DEREK HAD HIS HAND UP BEFORE I DID. I'M SORRY. OKAY. BUT BEFORE, WHAT WOULD YOU THINK IF WE JUST BROUGHT THE QUESTIONS ON AN AGENDA BILL AND LET EVERYBODY COME AND SPEAK TO US? THAT'S THE WAY, IT SHOULDN'T BE A BACK ROOM THING WITH DIFFERENT PEOPLE ARGUING AND IT NEEDS TO BE OUT IN PUBLIC. THAT'S ALL I WAS GONNA SAY. OKAY, MELISSA. AND THEN, UH, KATHY, WHY DO WE THINK THE POLLSTERS ARE BIASED? WE'RE GONNA TELL THEM THE, WHAT WE WANT THEM TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT, BUT THEY'RE GONNA WRITE THE QUESTIONS. WE'RE NOT WRITING THE QUESTIONS. THEY'RE WRITING THE QUESTIONS. SO WHY DO WE THINK THEY'RE BIASED? BECAUSE WE GET TO REVIEW THEM AND THEN , BUT, BUT WE'RE ACCUSED OF BEING BIASED. BUT, BUT MAYBE, MAYBE WE DON'T REVIEW THEM IN THE CONTEXT OF HOW THEY'RE WORDED. MAYBE REVIEW THEM FOR WHETHER OR NOT THEY TOUCH ALL THE POINTS THAT WE WANTED TO BE TOUCHED WITHOUT CHANGING THE WORDING. WE'RE NOT WORDSMITHS, WE'RE NOT POLLSTERS. SO, I'M SORRY, BUT IT JUST SEEMS TO ME, ONE OF THE THINGS I KEEP HEARING IS WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE GROUP THAT TYLER'S GONNA HIRE CAN BE UNBIASED WHEN THEY DON'T LIVE HERE. I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT WE WERE SAYING. WE WERE SAYING THAT POLLS INHERENTLY ARE BIASED. I MEAN, IT'S JUST A FACT. BUT IF WE DON'T, WE MAKE IT AS UNBIASED AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN. I DON'T THINK ANY, DID ANYBODY SAY THAT THE POLLS WERE BIASED? I DON'T THINK, I JUST FEEL LIKE IF WE JUST LEAVE THEM TO WRITE THE QUESTIONS AND WE JUST REVIEW IT TO MAKE SURE THE POINTS ARE THERE, AND IF THEY'RE NOT, WE DON'T FEEL A QUESTION COVERED SOMETHING, WE GO BACK TO TYLER AND SAY, WE DON'T THINK THIS QUESTION, THERE'S A QUESTION HERE THAT COVERS X. INSTEAD OF TRYING TO PUT EVERY SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP INTO A ROOM TO TRY AND, AND WORDSMITH ALL OF THE QUESTIONS, I, I THINK WE RESOLVED THAT. I SAW EVERYBODY AGREE PUBLIC MEETING, EVEN IF IT'S IN A PUBLIC MEETING, EVEN IF IT'S IN A PUBLIC MEETING, THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY WORDSMITHING GOING ON. CORRECT. BUT THEN PEOPLE OF ALL SIDES COME HERE AND THEY WOULD GIVE US THEIR FEEDBACK AS OPPOSED TO HAVING A WORK GROUP. THAT'S FINE TO HAVE FEEDBACK. IT'S NOT FINE FOR US TO WORDSMITH THE QUESTIONS. THAT'S WHY WE'RE PAYING THESE PEOPLE. KATHY, I THINK THAT IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE STAFF WORK WITH THE POLLSTER, THAT THE POLLSTER SHOULD DEVELOP THE QUESTIONS. AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY SHOULD BE REVIEWED EVEN IN A SETTING, YOU KNOW, ON, ON AN AGENDA BILL. BECAUSE I THINK THERE WILL BE PRESSURE WORDSMITH FROM THE PUBLIC, WHICH EACH PERSON MIGHT BE REPRESENTING THEIR OWN BIAS OR IDEA. I THINK THAT YOU'RE COMPLICATE, WE WOULD BE COMPLICATING [04:20:01] IT EVEN FURTHER AND WE'LL FEEL THAT PUBLIC PRESSURE AND THEN WE'LL KICK THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD AGAIN. AND, AND I JUST DON'T SEE THAT BEING A PRODUCTIVE ENDEAVOR. OKAY. BUT ARE YOU SAYING THAT YOU WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH A SURVEY GOING OUT THAT YOU DIDN'T REVIEW? I THINK WHAT COUNCILOR DUNN SAID ABOUT REVIEWING FOR CONTENT, JUST TO SAY ARE THE, ARE, IS THE INFORMATION THAT I WANT TO GATHER REFLECTED YES OR NO? OKAY. THAT'S A PUBLIC MEETING. A PUBLIC MEETING INVOLVES THE PUBLIC. SO WE CAN'T DENY THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT. IT'S, IT'S GONNA HAPPEN. AND IF WE'RE HONEST WITH OURSELVES, WE'RE GONNA BE LIKE, WELL, I THINK IT NEEDS TO, I WON'T. NO, I MEAN, I JUST SAYING I HAVE TWO, YOU KNOW WHAT I, I, I GOT TWO MORE CENTS IF YOU WANT. GO AHEAD. I THINK I STILL HAVE IN MY POCKET. NO. UM, MAYBE NOT. MAYBE I HAVE A DOLLAR ACTUALLY. I, YOU KNOW, BUT YOU KNOW, I I, I LOOK AT IT AS ANYTHING THAT ANYBODY COMES UP IS GONNA BE VIEWED WITH SKEPTICISM, WITH BIAS. IF, IF THE CITY IS GONNA BE NEUTRAL, WHETHER YOU USE THE POLLS OR NOT, TO BRING IT UP. IF YOU HAVE FEEDBACK FROM A COUPLE INTERESTED GROUPS, PRO AND CON ON DIFFERENT THINGS, YOU CAN HAVE THAT GROUP HASH IT OUT, COME BACK WITH WHAT THEY THINK THEY CAN AGREE ON. IF YOU, IF YOU ARE GONNA GO AHEAD WITH IT, WITH, UH, IT, AND THEN PRESENT IT BACK TO THE CITY COUNCIL FOR INPUT AND DECISION TO GO FORWARD OR NOT. BUT YOU'RE GONNA GET, YOU'RE GONNA GET A LITTLE BIT WIDER OF AN AUDIENCE. YOU'RE GONNA GET BIASED. YOU'RE GONNA GET BIASED FROM BOTH SIDES. AND HOPEFULLY EACH OF THEM CAN CANCEL OUT EACH OTHER TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY REPRESENTS WHAT YOU THINK IS THE INTENT FOR YOU TO GIVE THEM, TO GIVE THE PULSE OF THE QUESTIONS AND SAY, GIVE ME THE ANSWERS BACK. YOU'RE ALREADY BIASING IT. YOU KNOW, YOU'RE ALREADY SAYING, I WANT ONE QUESTION, I WANT EIGHT QUESTIONS. I WANT, I WANT TO LOOK AT IT THIS WAY. WELL, WHO, WHO'S PAYING YOUR BILL? UM, YOU'RE GONNA GET SOME BIAS. UM, SO IT, IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP BIAS OUT, BUT THERE ARE WAYS TO TRY TO MITIGATE IT AND TRY TO HAVE THOSE, THOSE INTEREST GROUPS REPRESENTED AT THE TABLE TO COME BACK WITH A SURVEY THAT CAN ACTUALLY REPRESENT THE INTEREST. IT COULD HAVE SOMEBODY PLAYING THE NEUTRAL ARBITRATOR, UM, AMONGST IT TO TRY TO GET IT TO A POINT WHERE IT REPRESENTS. AGAIN, I, YOU KNOW, I MENTIONED I'M, I'M NOT NECESSARILY FOR A SURVEY, UM, BUT IF A SURVEY IS GONNA GO OUT AND YOU, YOU'VE DETERMINED THE TIMEFRAME AND, AND COMPONENTS THAT ARE PART OF IT, I THINK YOU NEED TO LOOK AT IT FROM THE STANDPOINT AS HOW DO YOU ACTUALLY MAKE SURE IT REPRESENTS THE INTEREST YOU'RE TRYING TO GET? OTHERWISE, YOU KNOW, I, I'LL BE ONE OF THE FIRST ONES TO GET UP AND SAY, WELL, THAT'S PRETTY BIASED. I DON'T THINK IT REPRESENTS THAT, YOU KNOW, UM, CP UM, 2.0 MIGHT SAY THAT, OR ANY OTHER, OTHER SPECIAL INTERESTS WILL SAY IT ON THE OTHER SIDE THAT SAYS, NO, YOU'RE REPRESENTING TOO MUCH OF THE INTEREST OF, YOU KNOW, THE, THE ANTI HOUSING OR PRO-HOUSING INTEREST. SO I, I THINK IT'S A HARD ONE TO WIN REGARDLESS. UM, BUT I THINK YOU CAN TAKE STEPS TO TRY TO MITIGATE THAT. UH, IT WON'T BE PERFECT BECAUSE I'LL TELL YOU WHEN, WHEN WE DID THAT, I MEAN, I CAN STILL REMEMBER BACK WHEN WE WERE SURVEYING BACK AT A SU AND WE CAME UP WITH THAT BIG SUR SURVEY AND THE CLIENT AT BIG SURF WAS EXCITED ABOUT IT BECAUSE WE ACTUALLY USED PUNCH CARDS AND PROGRAMMING WITH COBOL AND ACTUALLY GIVE HIM PRINTOUTS AND STUFF ON YOU, YOU KNOW, PRINTED PAPER. BUT IT WAS, THERE WAS BIAS IN IT. UH, AND, AND NO WAY I COULD, I COULD BE HONEST AND SAY THERE WASN'T. SO I JUST TAKE YOUR BEST STEPS. SO, YEAH. THANK YOU FOR, I'LL SIT DOWN. I USED MORE THAN THREE MINUTES, SO, OKAY. SO WHERE ARE WE? I HAVE HALF OF A MOTION BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE OTHER HALF, THE OTHER HALF BEING THE REVIEW OF THE QUESTIONS. BUT IF I WERE ABOUT TO MAKE A MOTION, IT WOULD BE TO ENTER INTO A CONTRACT, UH, SUBJECT TO THE APPROVAL OF THE CITY ATTORNEY WITH HIGHER GROUND TO DRAFT A DIRECT MAIL SURVEY. QUESTIONS. THAT WOULD BE MY, THAT WOULD BE THE MOTION THAT I WOULD FLOAT. I'M WAITING. OKAY. I'M MAKING IT AS A MOTION. SECOND. I THOUGHT YOU SAID YOU WERE GONNA HAVE TWO MOTIONS. NO, THAT WAS EARLY. NO, NO. I SAID I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THE SECOND HALF, WHICH IS WHO WOULD REVIEW. SO I LIMITED MY MOTION TO LET'S AT LEAST GET INTO A CONTRACT WITH HIGHER GROUND AND LET'S AT LEAST START GETTING THE QUESTIONS DRAFTED. SO THAT'S WHERE I AM. WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO RESTATE THE MOTION? YES. OKAY. I MOVE WHO SAID YES, JOE . OKAY. OKAY. SO I MOVED TO ENTER INTO A CONTRACT [04:25:01] SUBJECT TO APPROVAL OF THE CITY ATTORNEY WITH HIGHER GROUND INK TO DRAFT DIRECT MAIL SURVEY QUESTIONS AS DISCUSSED. AND IT'S HIGH GROUND, I BELIEVE, NOT HIGHER. OH, UH, WHATEVER. YEAH. OKAY. HIGH GROUND. HIGH GROUND. THANK YOU. HIGH GROUND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR. WAIT, HANG ON. DISCUSSION BEFORE THE VOTE. OKAY, GO AHEAD. OKAY. I SUPPORT GETTING PUBLIC INPUT ON SOMETHING AS IMPORTANT AS THIS, BUT I DISAGREE WITH DOING IT, AND I JUST WANT THAT ON THE, THE RECORD THAT, UM, I DO SUPPORT GETTING COMMUNITY INPUT, BUT I THINK THAT THIS IS A MISGUIDED EFFORT, SO I AM GONNA BE VOTING AGAINST IT. PETE, CLARIFICATION. KATHY, DOES YOUR MOTION SAY COME BACK TO COUNCIL WITH THE RESULTS? THAT'S THE PART WHERE THIS DISCUSSION WILL HELP. I WOULD BE, I, I, I SUPPORT THAT. I'D ASK FOR A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT. SO THAT, AND THAT'S ONE WAY OF US GETTING PUBLIC INPUT ON THE RESULT OF THE STAFF. AND I, I WILL SUPPORT YOUR FRIENDLY AMENDMENT. CAN COUNCILLOR FFA, DO YOU STILL SECOND THE MOTION? YEAH, I SECOND. AND, AND CAN I CLARIFY WHAT YOU MEAN BY RESULTS? IS IT THE FINAL SURVEY OR THE, THE QUESTIONS? QUESTIONS? OKAY. YOU KEPT SAYING RESULTS. SO I WAS THINKING YOU WANTED JUST AT THE END, THE FINAL PRODUCT. SO JUST THE DRAFT SURVEY, BRING THE DRAFT SURVEY BACK. ARE YOU READY TO VOTE? MM-HMM . ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? NO NAY. OKAY. CAN WE DO A HAND VOTE ON THAT? BECAUSE NO, IT'S 4 3, 4 3. I NEED TO SEE WHO, YEAH. WHO VOTED NOW SHE NEEDS IT. SO. OKAY. UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? NO, NO. I, I WILL TELL HER. OKAY. BRIAN, MYSELF AND MELISSA VOTED NO THANK YOU. AND THE REASON I VOTED NO IS BECAUSE WE MIGHT AS WELL JUST USE JANUARY OF LAST YEAR. I DON'T SEE US ADDING ANYTHING THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL, AND I WOULD WAIT UNTIL WE HAD MORE INFORMATION SO THAT WE GET BETTER RESULTS. I SEE THAT I HAVE CARDS, BUT I'VE CLOSED THE PUBLIC COMMENT. BUT TIM, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING THAT, MAYOR, THAT WAS MY BAD. THEY DID SPEAK. I JUST, THEY SPEAK WAS TIRED AND HANDED, HANDED THEM BACK. THEY SPOKE. THAT WAS MY BAD. I JUST HANDED THEM BACK TO YOU. MY APOLOGIES. OKAY. ARE WE DONE HERE WITH THAT ITEM MORE THAN NOW? SOMETHING REALLY IMPORTANT. , WE'RE BRAIN DEAD, BUT LAUREN, YOU SHOULD GO HOME, GO TO SLEEP AND COME BACK. THESE THINGS. NOW, KATHY SENSEMAN IS NOT JOINING US, RIGHT? NO, SHE'S, SHE'S ON TEAMS. OH, SHE IS? OH, IS SHE? BILL, WAIT, THE HOUR. HOW LONG HAS SHE BEEN ON TEAMS? PETER BEEN RUNNING IN. HI, KATHY, CAN YOU HEAR US? I CAN. THANK YOU. YES. SO IF YOU, KATHY AND LAUREN, IF, IF YOU'RE GONNA BE DOING THIS EVERY TWO WEEKS, SERIOUSLY, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO JOIN THE CALL. YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON, WE, WE HAVE ESTIMATED TIMES, WHICH ARE ALWAYS TOO, YOU KNOW, SHORT. BUT WE SHOULD GIVE YOU A TIME TO JOIN SO YOU CAN HAVE DINNER AND DO OTHER THINGS. MAYBE YOU ALREADY DID, BUT DON'T HAVE TO SPEND YOUR TIME LISTENING TO US. LAUREN'S BEEN GREAT AT KEEPING ME POSTED. OKAY. UM, AND THIS TIME OF YEAR, THERE'S PLENTY TO DO LEGISLATURE, SO IT'S NOT TIME WASTED. OKAY. I TOLD HER SEVEN 30. THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE WITH US. NO PROBLEM. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO, [9.e. AB 3313 Discussion/possible direction/action regarding proposed State legislation, short-term rental legislation, lobbying efforts, and State budget and their potential impact on the City of Sedona.] GOOD EVENING, MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, AND CITY COUNSELORS. TONIGHT WE'RE JOINED BY KATHY SENSEMAN, OUR LOBBYIST. SO THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE SO LATE TONIGHT, KATHY, WE ARE NOW THREE WEEKS INTO THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION WITH SEVERAL BILLS BEING INTRODUCED IN THE PAST WEEKS THAT MAY BE OF PARTICULAR INTEREST TO SEDONA. WE HAVE A LIST OF THESE UP ON THE SCREEN, AND I'D LIKE TO HAVE KATHY GO OVER THE BILLS. KATHY SENSEMAN, SORRY, COUNSELOR KINSELLA. UM, AND THEN WE CAN DISCUSS IF COUNCIL WANTS TO SUPPORT OR OPPOSE THESE BILLS. UM, YOU CAN SEE THAT I'VE TAKEN A GUESS ON YOUR POSITION, UM, BUT WE'D LIKE TO SOLIDIFY THAT TONIGHT AND IF THAT'S [04:30:01] THE DIRECTION THAT, THAT YOU ALL WOULD LIKE TO GO. SO AT THIS POINT, I'M GONNA PASS IT OFF TO KATHY, AND SHE'S GONNA GO OVER EACH OF THESE BILLS. SURE. UH, GETTING MAYOR COUNCIL, UM, I'LL JUST KIND OF RUN THROUGH THESE QUICKLY. UM, AND I'LL KIND OF GROUP THE 2201 AND 26 0 9 ON THE LIST HERE. I'LL GROUP THOSE TOGETHER JUST SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY'RE FOR THE SAME THING. AND SO THIS IS FOR 2201 IS A BLISS BILL THAT WOULD, UH, PROVIDE $8 MILLION TO THE CITY, UH, FOR A PROJECT ON 89 A AT FOREST ROAD AND RANGER ROAD. UM, AND THEN ALSO, UH, THE REASON THERE'S 26 0 9 IS THAT WE HAD ALSO BEEN WORKING WITH OG AND THEY HAD MET WITH REPRESENTATIVE BLACKMAN. UM, AND HE, UH, ALSO, UH, WANTED TO INTRODUCE A BILL BASED ON THAT CONVERSATION OR CONVERSATIONS THAT HE IS HAD WITH NIKKO. UM, I WILL JUST SAY THAT 26 0 9, UM, HAD THE WRONG AMOUNT PUT IN THERE. HE DROPPED THE BILL BEFORE THE AMOUNT WAS ADJUSTED TO THE CORRECT ONE, WHICH IS IN 2201. UM, I WOULD RECOMMEND WE SUPPORT BOTH OF THESE BILLS SINCE THEY'RE APPROPRIATIONS DIRECTLY FOR, UM, THE CITY OF, UH, SEDONA. UM, JUST GOING DOWN THE LIST NOW, 2209. UM, THIS IS ONE THAT WE ARE, LAUREN AND I ARE RECOMMENDING THAT WE OPPOSE THIS IS DEALING WITH TPT OR SALES TAX SOURCING. AND SO THE, PROBABLY THE QUICKEST, EASIEST WAY TO DESCRIBE IT IS, LIKE RIGHT NOW, IF SOMEONE BUYS SOMETHING ONLINE, YOU KNOW, THE SALES TAX IS CAPTURED WHERE THAT THAT PURCHASE IS MADE. SO IF SOMEONE IN SEDONA MAKES IT, SEDONA CAPTURES THAT SALES TAX. WHAT THIS IS DOING IS SAYING THAT IT'S WHERE THE PRODUCT ORIGINATES FROM. SO SAY YOU, YOU KNOW, PURCHASED IT IN SEDONA, BUT IT'S COMING FROM A I'LL STICK ON AMAZON, AN AMAZON WAREHOUSE IN SURPRISE OR GOODYEAR, THEN THE SALES TAX WOULD GET CAPTURED IN THAT COMMUNITY WHERE THE WAREHOUSE WAS. AND SO CLEARLY THAT WOULD BE DETRIMENTAL, UM, SINCE I DON'T BELIEVE SEDONA HAS A LOT OF WAREHOUSES OR THINGS LIKE THAT. SO, UM, WE ARE AGAIN RECOMMENDING OPPOSE ON THIS ONE. AND I BELIEVE, AND IF LAUREN WANTS TO SHARE, UH, CITY OF COTTONWOOD HAS ALSO ASKED US TO SIGN ON TO A LETTER WITH THEM, UM, TO OPPOSE THIS BILL AS WELL. UM, KATHY BEF YES. WHO, WHO DOES THIS BENEFIT? WHO, WHO INTRODUCED THIS BILL AND FOR WHAT REASON? SO, REPRESENTATIVE JUSTIN OLSON, UM, INTRODUCED IT. HE, HE WAS, HE, HE WAS A STAFFER KIND OF BACK IN THE DAY, AND HE ALSO WORKED FOR A, THE ARIZONA TAX RESEARCH ASSOCIATION. AND SO I KNOW THAT, UH, THEY HAVE HAD INTEREST IN ISSUES SIMILAR TO THIS. SO, UM, I HAVEN'T HEARD IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, A, A ARA BILL OR NOT, BUT, UM, AND OLSON, I BELIEVE ALSO IS, UM, AN ACCOUNTANT CFO, UH, TYPE PERSON. SO I, YOU KNOW, SO I THINK HE COULD JUST BE SOMETHING THAT HE FEELS PERSONALLY CONVICTED ABOUT. I, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE MOTIVATION IS, YOU KNOW, ON THIS ONE, OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW, IT JUST LOOKS LIKE TAX POLICY THAT, THAT WE'VE SEEN FROM ATRA, YOU KNOW, IN YEARS PAST. SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WOULD BENEFIT HIS COMMUNITY IN SPECIFICALLY. NO, HE'S FROM MESA. AND SO, UM, SO I KNOW THAT THERE ARE SOME, LIKE DISTRIBUTION CENTERS, YOU KNOW, WAREHOUSING, BUT I DON'T THINK IT WOULD NECESSARILY DISPROPORTIONATELY, YOU KNOW, BENEFIT HIS DISTRICT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I THINK IT COULD JUST BE AT THE CORE OF IT, HE'S KIND OF A TAX NERD, YOU KNOW, ON, ON UNDERSTANDING OR, YOU KNOW, WORKING IN THAT, UM, IN THAT FIELD. I KNOW THAT, UH, I GOT A CALL FROM THE MAYOR OF CLARKDALE, AND THEY SAID THAT IF THIS WENT THROUGH, THEIR ESTIMATE IS THAT THEY WOULD THIS PLUS THE FOOD TAX AND THE OTHER THING THAT, THAT THEY WOULD LOSE 20% OF THEIR GENERAL FUND. YEAH, IT'S, AND THEY DID AN ESTIMATE. I I WAS THINKING THAT WE SHOULD TRY TO DO AN ESTIMATE OF WHAT WE THINK IT, IT WOULD IMPACT US, NOT WAIT TO SUPPORT IT IF WE CHOOSE TO DO THAT, BUT HAVE THAT AS EXTRA, UH, INFORMATION AND WE COULD SUPPLEMENT A LETTER WITH THAT. AND, AND CLARKDALE HAS ALREADY COMMUNICATED WITH, YOU KNOW, WE ARE THE SAME LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT WITH OUR LEGISLATORS ON THIS, AND THEY'RE, THEY WOULD [04:35:01] LIKE OUR SUPPORT. YEAH, I, AND I, I SAID, I THINK, YOU KNOW, FOR, ESPECIALLY FOR, YOU KNOW, COMMUNITIES, RURAL COMMUNITIES THAT DON'T HAVE A LOT OF THOSE THINGS THAT THE LARGER CITIES HAVE, UM, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF WAREHOUSING AND, AND DISTRIBUTION CENTERS THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. IT'S GONNA BE DETRIMENTAL AND, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD RECOMMEND THAT THE CITY TAKE AN OPPOSED POSITION ON THIS. EVERYONE AGREE THIS UP IS 2317. UM, PROBABLY NOT A BIG ISSUE IN SEDONA, BUT THE LEAGUE IS ASKING FOR, UM, FOR US TO BE PART OF THE COALITION TO OPPOSE THIS BILL. AND SO ESSENTIALLY, UH, IT'S PROHIBITING CRUISING, AND SO I'M NOT SURE WHY IT'S SUCH A BIG ISSUE, BUT , THEY'RE, THEY'RE ASKING FOR KIND OF CITY ALL CITY SUPPORT TO, TO OPPOSE IT. UM, AND THEN NEXT ON THE LIST, UM, AND, AND, AND MANY OF THESE, I THINK THE REST OF THESE THAT WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT ARE ALL, UM, SHORT-TERM RENTAL BILLS THAT ARE IN PROCESS. UM, AND IF I COULD KIND OF AS AN OVERARCHING ON SHORT-TERM RENTALS, UM, WE ARE SEEING THAT, UH, IN THE HOUSE. REMEMBER LAST YEAR OUR BILL DIDN'T EVEN GET ASSIGNED TO A COMMITTEE UNTIL LIKE THE LAST DAY OF SESSION. AND THIS YEAR, UM, WE ARE SEEING THE BILLS GET ASSIGNED TO COMMITTEE. AND, YOU KNOW, I CAN SHARE THAT TODAY. I HAD A, A MEETING WITH THE COMMERCE CHAIR WITH THE LEAGUE OF CITIES, AND WE WERE KIND OF TALKING THROUGH SOME, SOME OPTIONS, SOME IDEAS TO ELEVATE THESE ISSUES, TO GET THEM ON AN AGENDA, TO DO A STAKEHOLDER MEETING. UM, AND HE SEEMED TO BE VERY RECEPTIVE TO THAT. UM, AND SO MAYBE HELPS WHEN, UH, REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER WAS RUNNING FOR THE MAYOR OF CHANDLER. SO HE SEEMED A LITTLE MORE RECEPTIVE WHEN WE KIND OF STARTED TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, CITY IMPACTS AND, AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. SO, UM, MORE TO COME ON THAT, BUT IT WAS A VERY POSITIVE, UH, CONVERSATION TODAY AS WE'RE TRYING TO WORK TO GET SOME OF THESE BILLS HEARD IN COMMITTEE. UM, SO REALLY QUICK, 23, 25. THIS IS, YOU MAY HAVE HEARD, SEEN THIS IN THE, UM, NEWSPAPER, UH, OR MEDIA, UH, TALKING ABOUT BANNING INSTITUTIONAL INVESTORS. AND SO INSTITUTIONAL INVESTOR WOULD BASICALLY MEAN YOU'RE OWNING MORE THAN 50 SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, 50. UM, AND IT WOULD ALSO IN THIS BILL WOULD PROHIBIT, UM, UH, AN, A, A INSTITUTIONAL INVESTOR FROM SUBMITTING A BID TO PURCHASE A SINGLE FAMILY HOME WITHIN THE FIRST 60 DAYS OF HAVING THAT PROPERTY LISTED. UM, SO, UH, IT'S BY REPRESENTATIVE CO CUPPER. UM, I'VE ONLY HAD A VERY SHORT CONVERSATION WITH HIM. UM, HE IS PUSHING THIS ISSUE, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WHEN I'VE TALKED TO THE LEAGUE IN THE PAST, THEY HAVE FELT THAT THERE IS SOME RECEPTIVITY TO KIND OF REIGN IN, UM, INSTITUTIONAL INVESTORS THAT ARE COMING IN. SO WE'RE KEEPING A VERY CLOSE EYE ON THIS. UM, AND TODAY WE'RE RECOMMENDING, UM, SUPPORT OF THIS LEGISLATION. THEN, UM, 24 29, 24 30 ARE BOTH, UM, REPRESENTATIVE BLISS BILLS ON VACATION RENTALS. UM, 24 29 TALKS ABOUT OCCUPANCY. SO IT WOULD ALLOW, UM, A CITY TO SET A MAX OCCUPANCY. UM, AND SO THEY COULD DO THAT EITHER THROUGH, UM, AND THEY COULD ALSO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF PERMITS, AND THIS WOULD GRANDFATHER IN EXISTING PERMITS, UM, BUT IT WOULD ALLOW SOME KIND OF CAPPING OF HOW MANY PEOPLE COULD STAY IN AN AIRBNB AS WELL AS CAPPING THE NUMBER OF PERMITS THAT WE HAVE. UM, AND THE 24 30 IS DEALING WITH ONLINE MARKETPLACES. SO LIKE AIRBNB, VRBO, UM, IT WOULD REQUIRE THEM TO REMOVE A LISTING WITHIN SEVEN DAYS OF NOTIFICATION IF THE, THAT, UH, LISTING END IS NO LONGER, THEIR PERMIT IS NO LONGER VALID. UM, AND SO AGAIN, WE'RE RECOMMENDING A SUPPORT, UH, SUPPORT POSITION ON THIS. UM, THEN 10 76 IS SENATOR CHE'S BILL. THIS IS THE ONE REALLY GEARED TOWARDS US, WHICH BASICALLY, UH, FOCUSES KIND OF THE SAME THINGS I MENTIONED BEFORE ON THE MAX NUMBER OF PERMITS, UM, AND MINIMUM DISTANCE REQUIREMENTS THAT THE CITY COULD SET, BUT IT WOULD, UM, LIMIT IT TO, UH, COMMUNITIES WITH A POPULATION OF LESS THAN 70,000. UM, AND SENATOR FICHE, UM, FELT THAT, UH, 70,000 OF YOU WANTED IT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT CAPTURED PREST KIND OF ALL THE, THE COMMUNITIES IN THIS DISTRICT. AND SO, UM, I'VE MET WITH HIM, UH, TO TRY TO TALK ABOUT STRATEGY TO TRY TO GET THIS ON A SENATE GOVERNMENT, UM, AGENDA. AND SO WE ARE WORKING, WE ARE WORKING ON THAT. UM, THEN NEXT UP ON 11, UH, 1105, THIS IS A SENATOR KAVANAUGH BILL. UM, THIS WOULD, UH, PROHIBIT ADU OR KIND OF LIKE THOSE ACCESSORY BUILDINGS, UM, [04:40:01] FROM BEING A VACATION RENTAL. AND THEN THE LAST ONE IS 1261, ALSO A KAVANAUGH BILL, UM, WHICH IS ON THE OCCUPANCY LIMITATION. UM, AND IT ALSO CHANGES, UM, RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE TO HAVE LIKE THREE VERIFIED, UM, VIOLATIONS, UM, THAT HAVE GONE THROUGH AND KIND OF BEEN ADJUDICATED IN ORDER TO REVOKE, UM, A SHORT TERM RENTAL LICENSE. UH, BUT IT, THAT PROCESS IS, IS KIND OF VERY LENGTHY. AND WITHIN THE TIME PERIOD, 12 MONTH TIME PERIOD, UM, AT LEAST FOR CITY OF SCOTTSDALE, THEY FELT THAT, THAT IT'S JUST REALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO GET TO THAT VERIFIED VIOLATION DEFINITION TO BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING, UM, WITH A PERMIT. UM, AND SO, AND, AND WHAT MR. KAVANAUGH'S IS TRYING TO DO IS TO SAY, INSTEAD OF HAVING TO HAVE THREE VERIFIED VIOLATIONS, THAT NUMBER WOULD GO DOWN TO TWO, AND IT WOULD BE OVER A 24 MONTH PERIOD. UM, AND SO, AND THEN ALSO, SO THAT WOULD BE FOR, UM, SERIOUS THREATS OF PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY, BUT THAT IT ALSO CREATES A THRESHOLD FOR SOLID WASTE OR VEHICLE PARKING VIOLATIONS. UM, AND THAT, UH, AND THAT IT WOULD ALSO LIMIT, UH, THAT YOU COULD NOT ADVERTISE A SHORT-TERM RENTAL THAT WOULD EXCEED THE OCCUPANCY LI LIMIT THAT IS ALLOWED IN THIS BILL. AND SO, AGAIN, WE ARE RECOMMENDING A SUPPORT POSITION ON THIS ONE, AND WE'VE BEEN IN SOMETIMES DAILY COMMUNICATION WITH THE LEAGUE, UM, ON ALL OF THESE BILLS AND ARE WORKING VERY DILIGENTLY TO TRY TO MOVE THE NEEDLE TO GET THEM, TO GET THEM HEARD, AS WELL AS WORKING ON A STAKEHOLDER MEETING TO PULL FOLKS TOGETHER TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ON THIS. SO WITH THAT, I'LL PAUSE AND SEE IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS ON THESE. I KNOW I WENT THROUGH THEM PRETTY QUICKLY. BRIAN. THANK YOU, MAYOR KATHY, UH, VICE MAYOR FOLTZ HERE. UM, SO ALL THESE BILLS THAT YOU JUST RAN THROUGH, THEY ARE ASSIGNED TO A COMMITTEE BUT NOT YET SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD, IS THAT RIGHT? CORRECT. CORRECT. AND, UM, AND I WOULD SAY THAT PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, THE APPROPRIATION BILLS, UH, THE TWO APPROPRIATION BILLS 2201 AND 26 0 9, UM, WE MAY NOT SEE THOSE BE ASSIGNED, BUT I, AND THEN THAT'S MORE A FUNCTION OF THE APPROPRIATION PROCESS. IT'S NOT ALWAYS TRANSPARENT. UM, BUT THIS YEAR THEY HAD ASKED MEMBERS TO KIND OF PUT THOSE REQUESTS THAT NORMALLY WOULD KIND OF HAPPEN BEHIND CLOSED DOORS TO PUT THEM IN BILL FORM. UM, BUT YES, ALL OF THESE BILLS HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED TO A COMMITTEE, UM, AND NOW THE DEVIL'S IN THE DETAILS OF GETTING A CHAIRMAN TO SAY, I'LL PUT THAT ON AN AGENDA. SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE WORKING ON RIGHT NOW. HOW DO YOU FEEL OPTIMISM WISE ABOUT ANY OF THESE STR RELATED BILLS BEING HEARD, GIVEN THAT, WHAT, LAST YEAR? DID ANY OF THEM EVEN GET ASSIGNED A COMMITTEE UNTIL THE END? YEAH, SO THE SENATE BILL DID GET ASSIGNED EARLIER, EARLIER ON IN SESSION, BUT THE HOUSE BILLS DID NOT. UM, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN DOING IT, WE'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK WITH THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, UM, AND WITH OTHER MEMBERS, WE'VE, AND WE'VE ALSO GOT A NUMBER OF MEMBERS INCLUDING REPRESENTATIVE BLISS, UM, THAT'S KIND OF HEADING IT UP OF GETTING OTHER RURAL MEMBERS TO GO TO THE SPEAKER AND TO GO TO THE VARIOUS COMMITTEES THAT, THAT THESE BILLS HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED TO, TO ASK FOR THEM TO BE HEARD. AND SO WE'RE PUTTING ON THE FULL COURT PRESS, YOU KNOW, I DO FEEL LIKE THERE IS MORE TRACTION THIS YEAR. UM, IN FACT, WE JUST HEARD THAT ON FEBRUARY 4TH, UM, AIRBNB IS, IS INVITED, UM, THEIR, UM, HOSTS, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'D BE THEIR HOST HOSTS. YEAH, YEAH. THANK YOU. UM, THEIR HOSTS COME TO THE CAPITOL, UM, SO THAT THEY COULD TALK TO MEMBERS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW GREAT IT IS TO, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY DO. UM, AND SO, SO, YOU KNOW, I, IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD TO SAY, BUT IT'S LIKE, I KNOW WE'RE MAKING INROADS BECAUSE THEY'RE TRYING TO DO MORE , MORE BLOCKING OF EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW. UM, BUT WE ARE, UM, YOU KNOW, HAVING CONVERSATIONS DAILY TO TRY TO GET A HEARING ON SOME OF THESE. OKAY, THANK YOU. THESE BILLS. SO DID YOU, I HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT OTHER BILLS TOO. OKAY, MELISSA, UH, THIS IS JUST REALLY QUICK AND GOES BACK TO, UM, 2290 AND THE QUESTION THAT THE MAYOR POSED TO COUNCIL, AND I'M NOT SURE ANYONE REALLY RESPONDED. UM, SO MAYOR, YOU HAD ASKED WHETHER OR NOT WE WANTED TO ASK STAFF TO LOOK INTO WHAT THE IMPACT WOULD BE, UM, ON OUR ECONOMY HERE. UM, CONSIDERING WE DON'T HAVE ANY DISTRIBUTION WAREHOUSES OR OF ANY KIND, AND OUR BUSINESSES MAY BE GETTING [04:45:01] THEM FROM LOCAL ARIZONA WAREHOUSES, WHICH COULD IMPACT, UM, OUR TAX BASE. SO, UH, I DIDN'T KNOW IF ANYONE ELSE BESIDES ME NODDED MY HEAD AND, AND GAVE HER AN ANSWER. YOU KNOW, I NODDED. BUT THEN I'M WONDERING HOW MUCH LEGS THAT BILL MIGHT HAVE, AND PERHAPS, I MEAN, WE'RE, LET'S WAIT AND SEE IF IT ACTUALLY STARTS MOVING. AND BEFORE WE ASK, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CALCULATE SOMETHING LIKE THAT ANYWAY, BUT BEFORE WE EXPEND EFFORT TO, TO MAKE THAT KIND OF A CALCULATION, SEE IF IT'S VIABLE AT ALL. I DON'T. SO, KATHY, DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF THAT BEING DOWN THERE? YES, I, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT THIS IS A BILL SPONSORED BY REPRESENTATIVE OLSON, AND HE IS THE HOUSE WAYS AND MEANS CHAIRMAN WHERE THIS BILL HAS BEEN ASSIGNED. SO I WOULD SAY IT IS A BETTER THAN GOOD CHANCE THAT THIS BILL BEING, IT'S HIS BILL, IT'S HIS COMMITTEE, UM, WILL BE ON AN AGENDA AT SOME POINT. WE WILL CALCULATE THE IMPACT. UM, ONE THOUGHT THAT OCCURS TO ME IS IT COULD BE FRAMED AS LIKE A TAX SIMPLIFICATION TYPE OF THING FOR THE, UM, BUSINESS ENTITIES. THE, THAT ARE, UM, HAVING TO COLLECT THE TAX AND HAVE TO KNOW WHAT EVERY INDIVIDUAL TAX RATE IS OF EVERY SINGLE COMMUNITY THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE A CUSTOMER IN. AND, YOU KNOW, FROM, SO I COULD SEE IF HE'S A CPA, I THINK YOU SAID THAT HE MAY BE PROPOSING THIS AS SOME KIND OF A ASSISTANCE TO THESE TYPES OF BUSINESSES, UM, NOT HAVING TO HAVE SUCH A COMPLICATED TAX COMPLIANCE BY HAVING TO REMIT ALL THESE DIFFERENT, UM, RATES BASED ON INDIVIDUAL CUSTOMER ADDRESSES. THAT WOULD BE MY GUESS. WELL, UH, CLARKDALE GAVE AN ESTIMATE, SO PERHAPS YOU COULD CALL SUSAN AND SEE WHAT THE YEAH, NO, I THINK OUR, UM, REMI OUR REPORTING THAT WE GOT FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE BREAKS DOWN, UM, CATEGORIES, RIGHT? AND SO THERE'S PROBABLY A CATEGORY FOR ONLINE TAX SALES, THAT TYPE OF THING THAT WE'RE RECEIVING SALES TAX FROM. IT'S MEANINGFUL TO ME THAT COTTONWOOD HAS ASKED FOR OUR SUPPORT ON THIS, AND I, THAT, THAT'S WEIGHS ME. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED TO DO A LOT OF MATH. WELL, IF IT'S JUST LOOKING IT UP ON A REPORT SURE. IT'S NOT A LOT OF STAFF TIME. IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE A NUMBER TO SHOW THE PER, YOU KNOW, THE IMPACT. RIGHT. OKAY. IS THAT IT, KATHY? YEAH, I HAVE OTHER BILLS I WANNA ASK ABOUT. WAIT, UM, BEFORE WE DO THAT, DOES EVERYONE, DO WE HAVE CONSENSUS ON WHAT I'VE PUT HERE IN TERMS OF THE SUPPORT AND THE OPPOSITION? YEAH. OKAY. UM, UM, WELL I THINK LIKE FOR 2317, UH, IS THAT THE ONE, IS THAT THE CRUISING CRUISING ONE? YEAH. OKAY. ALRIGHT. I'M FINE WITH THESE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT ARE WITHIN THE TABLE. GREAT. YES. THAT WAS THE, SO, SO LEMME JUST BEFORE YOU GO ON TO SOMETHING ELSE, KATHY, WITH THIS, UH, THE HOST, EXCUSE ME, THE HOSTS COMING DOWN ON FEBRUARY 4TH TO, UH, TALK SPEAK WITH LEGISLATORS ABOUT THE VALUE OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS. DO WE HAVE A COUNTER TO THAT? YES. I WAS WORKING ON THAT TODAY, UM, UH, WITH YOUR GOOD FRIEND SUSAN EDWARDS. YEP, THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. UM, AND, AND SOME OTHER FOLKS. AND SO YEAH, SO WE ARE, UM, SO I'VE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE LEAGUE ON, YOU KNOW, SOME THINGS AS WELL AS, UM, SOME OF THE OTHER FOLKS THAT ARE, UM, UH, OF THE SAME OPINION OF US OR RIGHT. YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE SAME CONCERNS WITH SHORT TERM RENTAL. SO YES. SO WE ARE WORKING ON, ON THAT. AND I KNOW THAT THEY HAVE, I BELIEVE, A MEETING THIS EVENING, AND THAT WAS GOING TO BE ONE OF THE TOPICS FOR THEM. SO THANK YOU. UM, I BELIEVE THAT IS IN MOTION. OKAY. OKAY. UM, SB 10 54, UM, REGARDING WHO HAS STANDING TO BRING A, A SUIT THAT FOLLOW CIVIL ACTION, WHAT, WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THAT? AND SH UH, THERE WAS A SIMILAR BILL LAST YEAR, IS THAT CORRECT? YEAH. AND YOU SAID IT WAS, I'M SORRY, 10 SB 10 54. FIVE FOUR. OKAY. OH, THERE, IT'S JUST LOOK IT UP HERE REAL QUICK. IT'S THE EMERGENCY CLAUSE ONE, UH, SENATOR ROGERS THAT ANYONE CAN CHALLENGE 'EM MEASURE PASSED [04:50:01] BY COUNTY OR CITY, UH, THAT HAS AN EMERGENCY CLAUSE IN IT. SO ANYWAY, FROM, FROM MY TAKE, THE ONLY EMERGENCY OR EMERGENCY CLAUSE MEASURES WE'VE PASSED HAVE BEEN BOND. UM, AND THERE'S STILL AN ONGOING CASE ABOUT THAT, WHETHER WE CAN EVEN DO THAT OR NOT. UM, UH, AND SO I DON'T THINK, SEE IT HAVING A BIG IMPACT IN THE CITY. WELL, THE REASON THAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IT IS BECAUSE, AGAIN, UH, GOING BACK AT OUR HISTORY HERE WHERE WE HAD, UM, BOB THORPE WHO HAD SOMEBODY FROM OUT OF AREA CHALLENGE AND ACTION BY THE CITY, BECAUSE THERE WAS NO LIMITATION ON STANDING. SO I MEAN, IT, IT'S THERE. I THINK THERE'S A HISTORY HERE OF SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, COULD HAPPEN AGAIN, THAT IT WOULD BE ALLOWED BY THIS BILL. DO WE WANT TO POTENTIALLY TAKE A POSITION ON THIS? WELL, I DON'T SEE IT HAVING A LARGE IMPACT ON THE CITY. WE HAVE OPPOSED SIMILAR, UH, BILLS IN THE PAST. YEAH, I, I WOULD BE INCLINED TO OPPOSE THIS BILL. SO I GUESS THAT'S WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR FROM THE DAYS. IF THERE'S ANYBODY ELSE WHO YOU KNOW, AND AS OUR ATTORNEY HAS POINTED OUT, WE HAVE IN THE PAST TAKEN A POSITION OPPOSING THESE TYPES OF BILLS. OKAY. SO CAN WE IMPOSE THAT ONE? WHAT NUMBER WAS THAT? COULD YOU REPEAT THAT NUMBER? IT'S SB 10 54. THANK YOU. I ALSO WANTED TO KNOW, HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT SB 1167, WHICH IS ONE THAT THE, THE LEAGUE SUPPORTS, UM, I BELIEVE, BUT I WOULD BE OPPOSED TO IT. IT'S ONE THAT, UM, ALLOWS MUNICIPALITIES AND COUNTIES TO SATISFY STATUTORY REQUIREMENTS FOR ADVERTISING, PUBLISHING, OR PRINTING NOTICES BY POSTING THEM ON THE ENTITY'S OFFICIAL WEBSITE. I, MYSELF DO NOT FEEL THAT THAT'S SUFFICIENT. UM, IN THE PAST, I BELIEVE WE TOOK THAT POSITION LAST YEAR AS WELL, THAT, UM, THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR SOME SORT OF PUBLIC NOTICE BEYOND OUR WEBSITE BE GIVEN SO THAT THE PUBLIC DOESN'T HAVE TO RELY ONLY ON OUR WEBSITE FOR NOTICE ABOUT, UM, ACTIONS THAT WE ARE POTENTIALLY TAKING IN OUR PUBLIC NOTICES. SO I WOULD, I WOULD OPPOSE RECOMMEND OPPOSING THAT BILL. I UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS A COST SAVING MEASURE, A TIME AND EFFICIENCY SAVING MEASURE FOR CITIES TO ONLY USE THEIR WEBSITES AS SUFFICIENT NOTICE, SUFFICIENT PUBLIC NOTICE. I MYSELF DON'T FEEL THAT MEETS THE REQUIREMENT OF PUBLIC NOTICE AS I READ IT THOUGH, UM, KURT, IT'S OKAY. UM, IT, IT DOESN'T PRECLUDE US FROM USING THE NEWSPAPER. IT ALLOWS US TO NOT USE THE NEWSPAPER IF WE DECIDED WE DIDN'T WANT TO. RIGHT. AND I DON'T WANNA BE OFF THE HOOK FOR HAVING TO POST OUTSIDE OF JUST OUR WEBSITE. I WANT US TO HAVE TO HAVE A WIDER NET CAST OF GIVING THE PUBLIC INFORMATION. SO I, I DON'T WANT TO BE ABLE TO RELY ON, WELL, WE ONLY HAD TO DO THIS, THEREFORE WE DIDN'T DO MORE. I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, I DON'T WANNA SLIDE BY ON THAT. THAT'S MY PERSONAL FEELING. YEAH. AND AS A STAFF MEMBER, I WOULD LOOK FOR POLICY FROM CITY COUNCIL IF, IF ON, ON WHAT YOU ALL WOULD REQUIRE US TO DO IF, WELL, WE HAVE OUR REQUIREMENTS, THEY'RE ALREADY ADOPTED, WHAT THEY ARE, THIS WOULD JUST REDUCE OUR REQUIREMENTS, WHICH I DON'T WANNA DO UNLESS YOU TOLD US OTHERWISE, IT WOULDN'T REQUIRE US TO. BUT IF YOUR POLICY SAID THAT WE STILL HAD TO DO IT, THEN WE WOULD DO IT. I DON'T THINK THIS IS GOOD POLICY FOR ANY MUNICIPALITY TO ONLY GET BY ON. SO I, UH, MY POSITION IT WOULD BE TO OPPOSE SB 167. SO, SO TODAY, UH, JUST TO HELP COUNSEL, UH, ORAL VALLEY HAS SIGNED IN FOUR MM-HMM . THE BILL SB 10 27. NO, NO, IT'S SB ONE. IT'S NOT ON THIS LIST. IT'S 10 27. 1167, ISN'T IT? 10, UM, THREE. I HAVE IT AS SB 167. THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS SAYS, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHICH IS RIGHT. I THINK YOU HAVE IT AS SB 1 0 2 7. MM-HMM . CAN WE FIND OUT THE NUMBER THERE, THE CORRECT NUMBER? UM, THERE MIGHT BE SEVERAL SAYS ONE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS 1167. THERE'S ALSO A 10 10 27 27. YEAH. SO IT'S THE SAME CONTENT IN TWO BILLS. I'D HAVE TO, I'D HAVE TO COMPARE 'EM WORD FOR WORD BECAUSE 1 0 2 7 HAS BEEN SPONSORED BY CAVANAUGH AND 1 1 6 7, SAME TYPE OF THING. IT'S BEEN, UH, SPONSORED BY ANGUS. IS THAT THE RIGHT PRONUNCIATION? [04:55:01] MM-HMM . AND THEY'RE BOTH SENATE BILLS. YEP. THAT'S INTERESTING. SO JUST, JUST SO YOU'RE AWARE, THE ONLY THE LEAGUE HAS SIGNED IN, IN SUPPORT OF THIS AS HAVE PINAL COUNTY, AVONDALE PAGE, FLORENCE, THE LIST GOES ON AND ON. COCONINO COUNTY, BUCKEYE. UM, THE ONLY ONE AGAINST IT SO FAR ARE A COUPLE INDIVIDUALS AND THE ARIZONA MEDIA ASSOCIATION. , OF COURSE. SO I JUST SAY, AND, AND IN THE PAST IT'D BE IN THE PAST WE HAVE, I DON'T THINK WE'VE EVER SIGNED IN AGAINST THESE BILLS. WE JUST HAVE NOT TAKEN POSITIONS. SO IF, I THINK THAT'S, I DON'T THINK WE'VE EVER SIGNED IN AGAINST THIS BILLS. IT IS GENERALLY POPULAR AMONG OTHER CITIES. WELL, AGAIN, THAT, THAT MEANS A MAJORITY THUMBS UP OR THUMBS DOWN UP HERE. I WOULD LIKE TO OPPOSE BOTH THESE BILLS. IS THERE ANY SUPPORT FOR THAT? I, I ACTUALLY THINK IT'S THE WAVE OF THE FUTURE, SO I DON'T THINK I CAN SUPPORT YOUR NON-SUPPORT ? I DON'T THINK SO. OKAY. OKAY. UM, HB 2012, DID YOU TOUCH ON THAT ONE? NO, I DID NOT. OKAY. CAN YOU, YEAH, HERE IT IS. IT SAYS FIRST IT'S ON PAGE, UM, ONE AT THE AFTER THE, UH, BOX. YEAH. NOT TO BE CONFUSING. I, I, IN THIS REPORT I TRY AND, UM, THE FIRST GOING FORWARD, UM, THE CHART IS GOING TO BE WHAT I'M GONNA BRING TO CITY COUNCIL, UM, TO GET SUPPORT OR OPPOSITION FOR, UM, THEN BILLS OF INTEREST. SOME OF THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'LL BE A CITY NOTE THAT LIKE, MAYBE, MAYBE WE'RE JUST WATCHING IT BEFORE WE BRING IT TO CITY COUNCIL UNLESS ONE OF YOU BRINGS IT, UM, UP LIKE WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW. UM, BUT THEN ALL OF THE BILLS IN THE CHART WILL BE LISTED IN THAT BILLS OF INTEREST SECTION AS WELL. SO THAT'S GONNA BE A LITTLE BIT MORE ROBUST, UM, THAN WHAT'S IN THE CHART. AND THEN THE LAST SECTION IN THE REPORT IS JUST, UM, THE AGREEMENT THAT WE MADE IN THE PROTOCOLS, WHICH WAS IF WE ARE ASKED FOR A COMMENT, UM, A STAFF COMMENT, I WANNA MAKE SURE AND LET YOU ALL KNOW THAT, THAT THAT HAPPENED. AND SO THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THAT VERY LAST SECTION. AS I'M TELLING YOU, UM, ALL OF THE BILLS THAT KATHY AND I HAVE DISCUSSED FOR COMMENT, UM, WITH OUR STAFF, AND IF IT, IF IT'S DOWN HERE, IT MEANS IT DIDN'T RISE TO THE OCCASION OF BEING BUMPED UP TO, TO TAKE A POSITION ON. SO, BUT SHE'S REQUESTING THAT IT BE BUMPED UP. MM-HMM . RIGHT. SO ARE WE PREPARED TO TALK ABOUT THAT TONIGHT THEN? HOW THIS WOULD YEAH, KATHY CAN TALK ABOUT THAT. OKAY. KATHY, CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US HOW THIS FITS INTO THE POLICY? THE GOVERNANCE POLICY THAT WE HAD PASSED? DOES THIS, UM, WELL, THIS, YEAH, WELL THIS OBVIOUSLY, SO WHAT IT DOES IS IT WOULD CHANGE THE VEHICLE REGISTRATION FEE FOR ALTERNATIVE FUEL VEHICLES. MM-HMM . UM, AND SO, UH, SO IT WOULD, SO WAY I READ IT IS IT WAS INCREASE, UM, THAT, SO THAT COULD BE BENEFICIAL TO THE HERF FUND. UM, BUT I WILL SAY THAT THIS BILL, BECAUSE IT IS A TAX INCREASE OR A FEE INCREASE, IT DOES REQUIRE A TWO THIRDS MAJORITY VOTE. MM-HMM . AND THOSE JUST HAVE NOT HAD A VERY SUCCESSFUL TRACK RECORD, UM, FOR YEARS. THE LEGISLATURE, UM, IS THIS THE ONLY BILL AT THE MOMENT THAT'S BEEN INTRODUCED THAT TRIES TO CAPTURE SOME RECOVERY FROM ELECTRIC VEHICLES NOT CONTRIBUTING INTO HEAR F CORRECT. I WOULD WANT TO SUPPORT THIS. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT, UM, ELECTRIC VEHICLES ARE NOT CONTRIBUTING INTO THE, THE FUNDS THAT SUPPORT ROAD MAINTENANCE ON THE STATE LEVEL. THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO TRY TO CAPTURE BACK SOME OF THE LOST REVENUES SUPPORT. WHAT'S INTERESTING IS, KATHY, WOULD YOU MIND, UM, EXPLAINING THE WAY I READ THE BILL, IT WOULD BE MORE EXPENSIVE TO REGISTER A ELECTRIC VEHICLE THAN A GAS POWERED VEHICLE. DID I GET THAT RIGHT? UM, RIGHT. SO I JUST, YOU KNOW, IT'S A, YEAH, POTENTIALLY, YEAH. IT'S, I I HAVEN'T SEEN A BREAKDOWN OF HOW THIS WOULD BE APPLES TO APPLES WITH LIKE A GASOLINE VEHICLE. UM, BUT YEAH, IT, IT WOULD, IT WOULD CERTAINLY ADD TO THE COST IF YOU OWNED AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE AND LAUREN, I READ IT THE WAY YOU DID, IT'S, UH, IT DOES, UM, COST MORE TO REGISTERED ELECTRIC VEHICLE AS A WAY TO RECOUP SOME [05:00:01] FUNDING BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT PAYING TAX AT THE GAS PUMP, WHICH IS HOW ROAD ALLOCATION MAINTENANCE HAS BEEN, UM, DISTRIBUTED. I, THERE ARE A LOT OF BLANK LOOKS UP HERE. SO NO, I, I, I UNDERSTAND IT. I AGREE WITH YOU. WHAT I UNDERSTAND AND I AGREE WITH YOU. AGREE WITH ME. OKAY. THAT'S TWO. ANYBODY ELSE? OKAY. AND, AND THEN THAT WAS, DID I TALK ABOUT SB 10 27? DID WE TALK ABOUT THAT ONE? I'M SORRY, MY NUMBERS, I WROTE DOWN THE NUMBERS. YEAH, IT'S THE SAME AS 1167. WHICH ONE IS, THAT'S THE SAME AS 1167. YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY, SO WE COVERED THAT. OKAY. THAT WAS IT FROM ME. OKAY. TILTING AT WINDMILLS. ANY QUESTIONS FOR KATHY? THANK YOU, KATHY. THANK YOU GUYS. HAVE A GOOD EVENING. YOU TOO. IT'S LEFT OF THE EVENING. OKAY. AB 30 66 DISCUSSION. UH, LAUREN, ARE YOU GOOD OR DO YOU NEED ANYTHING ELSE? I'M GOOD. OKAY. DISCUSSION, [9.f. AB 3066 Discussion/possible action regarding future meeting/agenda items.] POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING FUTURE MEETING AGENDA ITEMS. ANYONE HAVE A REQUEST FOR A FUTURE MEETING AGENDA ITEM? SO THIS GOES BACK TO THE FACT THAT AN ITEM WAS ADDED TO THE MARCH 10TH AGENDA, UM, WHICH I JUST RECENTLY FOUND OUT ABOUT. AND I WON'T BE HERE ON THE 10TH OF MARCH. AND I DO BELIEVE THAT, UM, THAT IS SOMETHING IN WHICH, UH, I SHOULD PARTICIPATE GIVEN THE CONVERSATION WE HAD EARLIER THIS EVENING. IS THERE A REASON WHY IT HAS TO BE ON THE 10TH OF MARCH? IT WAS THE FIRST OPENING, I THINK. CAN IT, ISN'T THIS THE INFORMATION THAT WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THAT'S GONNA, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T MOVE ALONG WITHOUT THIS INFORMATION WE'VE BEEN SAYING THAT'S BOGG DOWN. OH, I'M SORRY. I THINK WHAT COUNSELOR DUN IS REFERRING TO IS THAT YOU ALL RECEIVED A LETTER FROM THE, UM, CULTURAL PARK 2.0 BOARD MEMBERS REQUESTING ANOTHER, UM, APPEARANCE BEFORE COUNSEL TO DISCUSS THEIR REQUEST FOR A LETTER OF INTENT ON THE PROPERTY. UM, AND I HAD, PER YOUR RULES OF PROCEDURE, THREE SEPARATE COUNSELORS REACHED OUT TO ME AND INDICATED INTEREST IN HAVING IT AGENDIZED. AND SO AT THIS WEEK'S AGENDA REVIEW TEAM, WE LOOKED AT THE CALENDAR TO SEE WHEN THE NEXT AVAILABLE, UM, TIME SLOT WAS TO, TO ADD THEM PER THAT REQUEST. SO I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT COUNCILOR JEN IS REFERRING TO. OKAY. THAT'S CORRECT. THAT IS WHAT SHE'S REFERRING TO. YEAH. I, I REALLY DON'T WANT TO POSTPONE THAT ITEM. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION WITHOUT A FULL COUNSEL. SO I DON'T WANT TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION WITHOUT THE ENTIRE COUNCIL. AND I'M SORRY, I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO CALL IN, I'LL BE 12 AND A HALF HOURS AHEAD. I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, ARE WE SUPPOSED TO NOT HAVE COUNCIL MEETINGS WHEN YOU'RE NOT HERE? THAT'S NOT TRUE. AND YOU KNOW THAT'S NOT TRUE. WELL, I MEAN, I HAVE NOT ASKED. THERE ARE SEVERAL THINGS WE'VE POSTPONED OVER. I HAVE NOT ASKED THAT OTHER THINGS THAT ARE CURRENTLY SITTING ON THE AGENDAS BE MOVED. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS IMPORTANT TO THE WHOLE COUNCIL. UM, AND IT IS, DOES NOT HAVE A REQUIREMENT TO BE ON THE 10TH OF MARCH? NO, IT DOES NOT. I'M JUST ASKING BECAUSE I WANNA KNOW NOT THIS IS GOING TO BE A OF COURSE NOT. AND IF YOU WANNA HAVE THIS MEETING WITHOUT MY PRESENCE, YOU CAN CERTAINLY GO AHEAD AND DO THAT. I AM, I PUT FORWARD A REQUEST. YOU CAN CHOOSE TO REFUSE THAT REQUEST. NO, NO. I'M ASKING YOU A QUESTION. ARE GONNA, AND I ANSWERED THAT QUESTION. ARE, ARE YOU GONNA HAVE OTHER ITEMS THAT YOU WANT US TO TAKE OFF THE AGENDA WHILE YOU'RE GONE? NO. OKAY. THAT WAS MY QUESTION. AND I ANSWERED THAT QUESTION. I DIDN'T HEAR YOU THE ANSWER. THANK YOU. WE'RE NOT TAKING ACTION ON IT. WE'RE LISTENING TO THEM. CORRECT. RIGHT. SO NO, THAT'S NOT TRUE. WE WOULD BE TAKING ACTION ON IT. SO THEY ARE ASKING THAT THE COUNCIL MAKE A DECISION ON WHETHER TO PROVIDE THIS LETTER OF IN TIME MAY MAYOR AND COUNCIL. SO PER THE, PER THE RULES, UM, WHEN AN ITEM GOES ON, THE AGENDA IS LEFT UP TO THE AGENDA TEAM. UM, IT TAKES THREE COUNCILORS TO GET SOMETHING ON THE AGENDA. SO THAT'S TAKING PLACE. THE AGENDA TEAM HAS PLACED IT. UH, THE ONLY WAY TO CHANGE THAT WOULD BE TO SCHEDULE AN [05:05:01] ITEM. UM, SO YOU NEED THREE SUPPORT TO PUT IT ON NEXT COUNCIL MEETING TO THEN GET FOUR OF YOU TO RESCHEDULE IT TO A DIFFERENT TIME PERIOD. TO LIKE, TO TRUMP BASICALLY THE AGENDA TEAM. YOU NEED A SUPPORTIVE MAJORITY OF COUNCIL. OH MY GOSH. WE NEED, YOU'VE GROWN VERY FAST. WE NEED THREE COUNSELORS TO SUPPORT PLACING THIS ON AN AGENDA RIGHT. TO DISCUSS IT. AND WE'D NEED FOUR TO TAKE IT OFF. FOUR TO CHANGE IT. YEAH. TO CHANGE, TAKE IT OFF DATE THAN WHAT THE AGENDA TEAM ALREADY DECIDED. I MEAN, THE AGENDA TEAM'S FREE TO, UH, YOU KNOW, THE AGENDA TEAM'S, THE CITY MANAGER, SHE'S FREE TO READJUST THAT IF SHE WANTS TO. BUT, UH, BARRING THAT COUNCIL DOESN'T CONTROL NECESSARILY WHEN IT GETS PLACED ON THERE, BARRING A MAJ, A MAJORITY VOTE. AND THAT'S NOT SOMETHING WE CAN VOTE ON TONIGHT. OKAY. SO ARE THERE FOUR VOTES TO CHANGE? IT SHOULD. I'M FINE WITH MOVING IT DOWN. I MEAN, I, I I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE HECK OUR THOUGHT PROCESS IS ABOUT THE WESTERN GATEWAY AT THIS POINT. ANYWAYS. WE'RE, WE'RE IN A HURRY. WE'RE NOT IN A HURRY. UM, I'M OKAY WITH WAITING ONE MORE MEETING FOR THAT. IF THAT'S IF YEAH. 'CAUSE THERE'S THREE. 1, 2, 3, I THINK, I WISH I COULD HAVE YOUR SUPPORT, BUT I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA AND THE PRECEDENT OF, OF NOT DOING THE ITEMS THAT ARE AGENDIZED, UM, TO SUPPORT INDIVIDUAL CALENDARS. I MEAN, I CAN'T, I'M, I'M SORRY. I KNOW, I KNOW YOU OBJECT TO THAT, BUT NO, I OBJECT TO THE FACT THAT IN OUR RULES AND PROCEDURES, THREE COUNSELORS, WITHOUT AN ITEM BEING PRESENTED TO ALL OF COUNCIL CAN, CAN GO AHEAD AND JUST SAY, HEY, WE'D LIKE TO HAVE THIS AGENDIZED WITHOUT A WHOLE COUNCIL BEING ABLE TO AT LEAST HAVE A SAY ON WHETHER OR NOT THEY AGREE THAT THAT ITEM SHOULD BE AGENDIZED OR NOT AGENDIZED. WHOA. THAT'S NOT CONSISTENT WITH OUR RULES AND PROCEDURES. I JUST SAID THAT IT'S SAID, I I JUST SAID NO, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, WHAT YOU THINK THAT NO, NO. IT'S VERY LATE. ALL IT TAKES IS FOR THREE TO SAY THEY WANT SOMETHING AGENDIZED. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE OTHER FOUR ARE OPPOSED TO IT. NO, BUT FOUR PEOPLE DIDN'T, IT WASN'T, IT DID NOT COME THROUGH THIS PROCESS OF SAYING FUTURE AGENDIZED ITEMS. AND ALL I'M SAYING IS I UNDERSTAND OUR RULES AND PROCEDURES. I'M JUST SAYING THAT THIS IS THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO WORK IN MY MIND IS THAT THROUGH THIS PARTICULAR ITEM, THAT'S WHERE WE TALK ABOUT THINGS WE NEED, WE WANT TO HAVE FUTURE AGENDIZED. NOT THAT THREE PEOPLE CAN JUST MAKE A DECISION THAT IT SHOULD BE AGENDIZED BY CONTACTING THE CITY MANAGER. I'M JUST SAYING THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH OUR RULES AND PROCEDURES AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED. OH, BUT THEY ARE OUR RULES AND PROCEDURES. IT USED TO BE TWO, WE CHANGED IT TO THREE. YOU REMEMBER THAT RIGHT? OKAY. IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE ON THIS SIDE? GUESS THAT. OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE THE BODY HEARING? NONE [11. ADJOURNMENT ] MEETING IS ADJOURNED. WE'LL SEE YOU TOMORROW. TWO O'CLOCK. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.