Feb 03, 2026 Planning and Zoning

NUMBER TWO, ANNOUNCEMENT AND SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF.

CLOSE ITEM ONE.

MOVING ON TO AGENDA ITEM

[2.ANNOUNCEMENTS & SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY COMMISSIONERS & STAFF]

DOES ANYBODY HAVE AN ANNOUNCEMENT? I HAVE ONE.

THE HIGH SCHOOL HAS THEIR CASINO NIGHT ON SATURDAY AT ONE O'CLOCK.

I BELIEVE IT'S A FUNDRAISER, SO JUST LET I LET EVERYBODY KNOW.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

UM, THE ONLY THING I HAVE IS THAT THERE WAS AN INTERVIEW FOR THE VACANCY ON PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION ON JANUARY 13TH, AND COUNCIL DECIDED TO PASS AT THIS TIME.

SO WE ARE HOPING TO DO MORE MARKETING OUTREACH AND CAST A WIDER NET TO HOPEFULLY GET SOME MORE APPLICANTS.

[3. APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES]

ITEM NUMBER THREE, APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES.

JANUARY 6TH, 2026.

IF THERE ARE NO CHANGES, STANDS AS APPROVED.

AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE, A CONSIDERATION OF THE FOLLOWING ITEMS THROUGH PUBLIC HEARING PROCEDURES, PUBLIC HEARING DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING CLOTH AND FLAME.

MOVING ON TO ITEM NUMBER FOUR, PUBLIC FORUM.

THIS IS THE TIME FOR THE PUBLIC TO COMMENT ON MATTERS NOT LISTED ON THE AGENDA.

THE COMMISSION MAY NOT DISCUSS ITEMS THAT ARE NOT SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED ON THE AGENDA PURSUANT TO A RS 38 DASH 4 31 0 1 H.

ACTION TAKEN AS A RESULT OF PUBLIC COMMENT WILL BE LIMITED TO DIRECTING STAFF TO STUDY THE MATTER, RESPONDING TO CRITICISM OR SCHEDULING THE MATTER FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION DECISION AT A LATER DATE.

OKAY, I DON'T HAVE ANY CARDS FOR THAT.

SO, CLOSING THIS ITEM AND MOVING ON TO

[5.a. Public hearing/discussion/possible action regarding Cloth & Flame: Request for renewal of a Conditional Use Permit (CUP) to use as an outdoor area for weddings, private, corporate, and community events. The property is currently zoned CF (Community Facilities) and is located at 995 Airport Road (135 Shrine Road). APN: 408-27-001A.]

REQUEST FOR RENEWAL OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO USE AN OUTDOOR AREA FOR WEDDINGS, PRIVATE, CORPORATE, AND COMMUNITY EVENTS.

THE PROPERTY IS CURRENTLY ZONED CF COMMUNITY FACILITIES AND IS LOCATED AT 9 9 5 AIRPORT ROAD, 1 3 5 SHRINE ROAD, A PN 4 0 8 DASH 27 DASH ZERO ONE A.

CASE NUMBER PZ 25 DASH ZERO TWO CUP, APPLICANT CLOTH AND FLAME, REPRESENTED BY OLIVIA AND MATT, OLIVIA, LOU LA AND MATT COOLEY.

PROPERTY OWNER, YAVAPAI COUNTY, SEDONA AIRPORT.

SO WHAT WE'LL DO IS TYPICALLY THE PROCEDURE IS, IS STAFF WILL HAVE A PRESENTATION AND THEN WE'LL BRING IT BACK FOR THE COMMISSION TO ASK QUESTIONS.

THEN WE'LL OPEN IT TO THE PUBLIC, UM, FOR COMMENT.

IF YOU INTEND TO SPEAK, PLEASE FILL OUT A CARD.

EVERYBODY HAS THREE MINUTES TO SPEAK AND THEN WE WILL RETURN IT TO THE COMMISSION FOR DISCUSSION AND THEN POSSIBLE ACTION.

THANK YOU CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS.

SO, LIKE YOU SAID, THIS IS A APPLICATION FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT RENEWAL FOR CLOTH AND FLAME.

UM, PZ 2 5 0 0 0 1 2.

UM, SO PROJECT SUMMARY, THE ADDRESS IS 9 9 5, EXCUSE ME, AIRPORT ROAD, UM, WHICH IS THE TOP OF THE MESA.

UH, IT IS ALL ONE PARCEL.

SO FOR, YOU KNOW, SAKES WE USE 9 9 5.

BUT THE ACTUAL ADDRESS, UH, THAT THEY'RE USING IS 1 35 SHRINE ROAD.

SINCE IT'S JUST A SMALL PORTION OF THE AIRPORT PROPERTY, UM, THE APPROXIMATE SIZE OF THE AREA THAT THEY'RE USING IS ABOUT FOUR ACRES.

THE CURRENT LAND USE IS MEETING FACILITIES, MEETING FACILITY, UM, FORMER MASONIC LODGE.

AND THE INTERIOR OF THE BUILDING IS PERMITTED FOR USE AS A MEETING FACILITY.

SO THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IS JUST FOR OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES.

UH, THIS PICTURE RIGHT HERE JUST SHOWS YOU THE LOCATION OF THE LODGE AND WHERE, UH, THEY CONDUCT THEIR, UH,

[00:05:01]

'CAUSE THEY, THEY DID HAVE A CURRENT, UH, OR THEY DID HAVE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT THAT IS NOW EXPIRED.

UM, BUT THIS IS THE SAME AREA.

ANOTHER PICTURE.

UM, SO TABLE 3.1 OF THE LDC LISTS OUTDOOR RECREATION FACILITY AS A CONDITIONAL CONDITIONALLY PERMITTED USE IN THE CF ZONING DISTRICT.

THERE ARE NO SPECIFIC USE SPECIFIC STANDARDS FOR THIS IN THE LDC.

UM, IT MAY INCLUDE, INCLUDE CONDITIONS TO MITIGATE NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE IMPACTS OF THE USE AND MAY INCLUDE A TIMEFRAME OR EXPIRATION DATE.

SO THE PROPOSAL IS THE SAME.

THAT WAS BEFORE, UM, THAT WAS APPROVED BEFORE.

SO A MAXIMUM OF 80, 80% OR 80 EVENTS PER YEAR, UM, WITH THE ANTICIPATED BREAKDOWN OF 40% WEDDINGS, 40% COMMUNITY EVENTS, AND 20% CORPORATE AND SOCIAL DINNER EVENTS.

THE AVERAGE EVENT SIZE IS APPROXIMATELY 120 PEOPLE WITH MOST EVENTS BEING UNDER ONE 50.

A MAXIMUM OF 20 EVENTS PER YEAR WOULD BE, HAVE A GROUP SIZE OF 200 TO TWO 50.

THE SITE HAS 41 CURRENT PARKING SPACES.

UH, ACCESS AND PARKING WILL REMAIN THE SAME, UM, LAST YEAR OR THROUGH THEIR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, WHICH WAS, UH, FROM AUGUST OF 24 UNTIL DECEMBER 31ST, 2025, 15 OUT OF 22 OF THEIR EVENTS HELD, UH, USED A SHUTTLE SERVICE.

AND, UM, SOUND MANAGEMENT MEASURES WILL REMAIN THE SAME AND ALL OF THEIR LIGHTING IS FULLY SHIELDED AND THEY WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO.

UH, THIS IS A SITE PLAN OF THE EVENT SPACE AND PARKING, UH, REVIEW CRITERIA IS THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND ARTICLE EIGHT ADMINISTRATION AND PROCEDURES APPROVAL CRITERIA IS THE SAME APPROVAL CRITERIA LISTED IN LDC SECTION 8.3 POINT E FIVE.

SO THE FULL EVALUATION WAS IN YOUR STAFF REPORT.

UM, IT'S CONSISTENT.

SO WE WERE LOOKING FOR CONSISTENCY WITH PREVIOUS APPROVALS AND OTHER APPLICABLE PLANS.

COMPLIANCE WITH THE LDC AND OTHER APPLICABLE REGULATIONS MINIMIZES IMPACTS ON ADJOINING PROPERTY OWNERS, MINIMIZES ADVERSE ENVIRONMENTAL AND FINANCIAL IMPACTS, COMPLIANCE WITH UTILITY SERVICES, UM, AND IMPORTANT IMPROVEMENT STANDARDS.

PROVIDES ADEQUATE ROAD SYSTEMS, PUBLIC SERVICES AND FACILITIES, AND HAS A RATIONAL PHASING PLAN, WHICH THIS DOESN'T HAVE A PHASING PLAN.

UM, PUBLIC INPUT.

SO SINCE THE PROPERTY IS SURROUNDED BY NATIONAL FOREST, WE DID DO AN EXPANDED NOTIFICATION RADIUS THAT STARTED AT THE, UH, BOUNDARIES OF THE NATIONAL FOREST.

AND WE WENT OUT 600 FEET, UM, TO THE NORTH PROPERTIES.

AND THEN ALONG DOWN, UH, AIRPORT ROAD, UH, THEY CONDUCTED THEIR PUBLIC OUTREACH AND CITIZEN PARTICIPATION REPORT, WHICH WAS IN YOUR PACKET.

AND STAFF, UH, DID THE PRI COMPLETED THEIR PUBLIC ARE PUBLICLY NOTICING.

UM, AND ALL OF THE COMMENTS RECEIVED WERE PROVIDED TO THE COMMISSION.

UH, MOST OF THEM WERE, UH, TALKING ABOUT NOISE TRAFFIC AND NUMBER OF EVENTS WERE THE MAIN CONCERNS AND CONCERNS RELATING TO HOW THE CITY REVIEWS NON-AVIATION USES AT THE AIRPORT, WHICH ARE OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF THIS REVIEW.

AS OUTLINED IN THE STAFF REPORT, STAFF BELIEVES THIS APPLICATION MEETS THE REQUIRED FINDINGS FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.

STAFF IS RECOMMENDING AN ADDITIONAL THREE YEARS WITH AN EXPIRATION DATE OF DECEMBER 31ST, 2028.

AND SO BASED ON THE COMPLIANCE WITH ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS AS CONDITIONED GENERAL CONSISTENCY WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND OTHER REQUIREMENTS FOR APPROVAL, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL FOR THE PROPOSED CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.

THAT'S IT.

THEY WERE NO LONGER TENANTS OF THIS SPACE, THEN THE AIRPORT COULD FIND SOMEBODY ELSE TO OPERATE IN THE SAME MANNER AS APPROVED UNDER THE THIS IF THE CUP WERE TO BE APPROVED.

COMMISSIONERS? YEAH.

DID THE APPLICANT WANNA PRESENT ANYTHING OR OKAY.

QUESTIONS? I'VE GOT A COUPLE.

SO, UM, CAN YOU GET YOUR MICROPHONE? SO PART OF THE PUBLIC INPUT THAT I, AT LEAST I READ, UH, TALKED ABOUT THAT THE CUP IS REALLY FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER AND THAT IT'S NOT REALLY CLOTH AND PLAIN.

IS THAT, IF THAT'S TRUE, AND IS THAT TRUE? LET ME ASK.

THE, THE CUP WOULD RUN WITH THE LAND, UM, AND SO IF

[00:10:01]

SO MY QUESTION THEN WOULD BE, IF CLOTH AND FLAME WERE TO, UH, DECIDE NOT TO CONTINUE USING THE PROPERTY, UM, COULD THE CUP EXPIRE? COULD THAT TRIGGER THE EXPIRATION OF THE CUP? OR COULD WE PUT THAT IN IF WE, IF WE SO CHOSE? UM, GENERALLY THE S GENERALLY RUN WITH THE LAND, AND SO WE HAVEN'T DONE THAT IN THE PAST.

I, I JUST WANNA KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S LEGAL AND WHAT'S NOT ILLEGAL HERE, BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE I KNOW WHO THE NEXT PERSON IS OR WHETHER I WOULD CARE TO, UH, APPROVE A CUP FOR THEM.

UH, SO CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS AND COMMISSIONER HURST, THAT'S, UH, CARRIE'S CORRECT THAT GENERALLY, UH, COMMISSION USE PERMIT RUNS WITH THE LAND? I DON'T KNOW OF ANYTHING THAT WOULD PROHIBIT A CONDITION LIKE THAT AS A CONDITION APPROVAL WOULD BE THAT SPECIFIC TO THE APPLICANT AND THAT THE, FOR WHATEVER REASON THE APPLICANT CEASE TO OPERATE THAT, UM, THE CUP COULD EXPIRE? UM, I DON'T THINK, UH, I, I MEAN I, I AGREE WITH CARRIE THAT GENERALLY WE DON'T DO THAT BECAUSE THE, UH, THE CONDITIONS ARE, AREN'T NECESSARILY SPECIFIC TO A CERTAIN BUSINESS, RIGHT? THEY'RE, THEY, IT'S A ZONING TYPE, UH, REQUIREMENT.

AND SO IT APPLIES TO THE LAND, NOT TO A SPECIFIC ENTITY OR PERSON.

UM, ANY NEW ENTITY THAT WANTED TO OPERATE WOULD HAVE TO OPERATE IN THE, PRETTY MUCH THE SAME MANNER WITH THE SAME CONDITION, THE SAME RESTRICTIONS AS CLOTH AND FLAME IF THEY CAME IN TO TAKE, TAKE THEIR SPOT.

SO I DON'T HAVE ANY CONCERNS WITH IT RUNNING WITH THE LAND, BUT I, AT THE SAME TIME, COMMISSIONER HURST, I THINK WE CERTAINLY COULD, UM, SORRY TO DRAFT THE CONDITION, UH, OF APPROVAL THAT WOULD LIMIT IT ONLY TO THE CURRENT ENTITY.

I, I ASK THIS BECAUSE I THINK THEY'VE DONE AN EXCEPTIONAL JOB IN ACTUALLY DOING WHAT THEY PROMISED TO DO, AND NOT EVERYBODY DOES THAT MM-HMM .

SO, UM, I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN, IN THAT IF THE COMMISSION WERE INCLINED TO GO THAT DIRECTION.

I HAVE A, I HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT THAT.

UM, AND THIS IS FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, DOING ACCOUNTING FOR SO MANY FIRMS, I HAVE A LOT OF FIRMS THAT CHANGE THEIR NAME, THEIR ENTITIES MM-HMM .

BUT THERE'S STILL THE SAME BUSINESS.

BUT LET'S SAY THERE'S SOME, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING HAS HAPPENED TO THAT ENTITY OR THEY HAD CHANGED PARTNERSHIPS, SO THEY CANCELED THAT LLC AND THEY CREATE A NEW LLC IF THEY'RE ADDING IN A NEW PARTNER.

AND SO IF WE WERE TO DO THAT, THEN THEY WOULD LOSE, THEY WOULD LOSE THEIR CUP AND THEY'D HAVE TO COME BACK.

SO I, I THINK IT'S RISKY.

WELL, I HONESTLY THINK IF THEY CHANGED THEIR NAME TO CLOTH AND MANY FLAMES, WE WOULD, WE WOULD STILL BE ABLE TO, UH, WRITE IT IN SUCH A WAY THAT IF IT'S THE SAME GROUP THAT'S RUNNING IT, THEN IT'S THE SAME THING.

THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING.

I DON'T KNOW.

BECAUSE IF PARTNERSHIP CHANGES, LET'S SAY THEY HAVE THE, LET'S SAY THEY HAVE THREE PARTNERS THAT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT, SO THEY HAVE THEIR LLC, AND THEN ONE PARTNER MOVES OUT, OR TWO PARTNERS MOVE OUT, AND THEN WE ADD MORE PARTNERS.

THOSE ARE DIFFERENT OWNERS.

SO IF YOU, YOU, IT WOULD BE SUPER HARD TO WRITE THAT, I THINK AND BEING LIKE, IT JUST, I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WOULD WORK.

MAYBE THEY SHOULDN'T CHANGE THEIR NAME AND, OKAY.

SO THEN THE NEXT THING I WAS GONNA ASK ABOUT WAS, UM, WOULD CLOTH AND FLAMES STILL BE A VIABLE OPERATION IF YOU WERE TO HAVE FEWER EVENTS? I MEAN, CLEARLY YOU HAD FEWER EVENTS, UH, THE LAST, YOU KNOW, THIS LAST YEAR THAN, UH, THAN THE 80 THAT YOU'RE PERMITTED.

UH, AND THERE WAS A LOT OF COMMENT ABOUT THE NUMBER OF EVENTS AND COULD IT BE REDUCED? SO THAT'S MY QUESTION.

AND I SAW, UM, CAN YOU STATE YOUR NAME? OH, HI EVERYONE.

I'M OLIVIA LAUCH REPRESENTING CLOTH AND FLAME.

UM, I SAW THOSE SAME, UM, NOTES IN THE COMMENTS FROM A LOT OF THE, UM, PEOPLE WHO WROTE IN, WE WOULDN'T BE, UM, WE, WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO PAY OUR LEASE.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE, WE'RE, UM, GETTING CREATIVE ON HOW WE, HOW WE WORK WITH OUR COST STRUCTURES FOR HOW WE'RE RENTING THE SPACE OUT.

BUT IF WE WERE LIMITED TO 20 EVENTS PER YEAR, WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SUSTAIN THE CURRENT LEASE PAYMENT THAT WE PAY THE AIRPORT.

AND, AM I INCORRECT? IT'S NOT REALLY 80 EVENTS.

IT'S DEPENDS HOW LARGE THEY ARE AS TO HOW MANY YOU CAN HAVE.

UH, THE COP STATES THAT WE CAN HAVE 80 EVENTS.

WE JUST HAD PERCENTAGES THAT WERE REPRESENTING, UM, WHAT DIFFERENT GROUP SIZES WE ESTIMATED THAT WE WOULD SEE OF THOSE 80 EVENTS AND WHAT PERCENTAGE WE THOUGHT WOULD BE OF THE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES BETWEEN CORPORATE EVENTS, WEDDING EVENTS, SOCIAL AND COMMUNITY EVENTS.

IT, BUT, UH, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR, YOUR EXPECTATION IS.

IF THAT MAKES, DID THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? IT DOES.

THAT'S NOT EXACTLY HOW I READ

[00:15:01]

YOU WERE HERE FOR 2024.

WAS ANYONE ELSE HERE FOR 20? YOU WERE.

JOE WAS HERE FOR 20.

UM, HOW MANY COMMUNITY EVENTS HAVE YOU HAD SINCE THIS ORIGINAL CUP STARTED? WE HAVEN'T HAD A COMMUNITY EVENT.

'CAUSE I, I REMEMBER THAT BEING A BIG PART OF OUR DISCUSSION AND THE FIRST CUP AND GOING BACK THROUGH THE PAPERWORK AND STUFF, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT JUST JUMPED OUT TO, TO ME.

UM, I THINK THAT YOU GUYS MET ALL THE EXPECTATIONS, ALL OF THE CONCERNS THAT WE BROUGHT UP, UM, AT THE PREVIOUS MEETING WERE ADDRESSED.

WE HAVEN'T, THERE'S NO OFFICIAL COMPLAINTS THERE.

CONVOLUTING YOUR NOISE WITH THE OTHER EVENTS UP, THERE'S NOISES ISN'T FAIR TO YOU GUYS EITHER.

UM, BUT I, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A POINT OF, PART OF WHAT WE DISCUSSED IN THAT CUP WAS COMMUNITY EVENTS AND IT WE'RE COME WHAT YOU'RE IN, YOU'RE IN SOME ISN'T A TON OF TIME, BUT I'M CURIOUS ABOUT YOUR COMMITMENT TO THAT IN THE FUTURE.

UM, BECAUSE OUR COMMUNITY DOES NEED COMMUNITY SPACES, AND THAT WAS SOMETHING WE DISCUSSED IN AUGUST TWO AUGUST AGO, TWO AUGUST AGO.

UM, WE WOULD LIKE TO HOST MORE COMMUNITY EVENTS, BOTH THE TICKETED EVENTS.

AND I, WHEN WE WENT THROUGH THE RENEWAL PROCESS, YOU KNOW, REVIEWED IT AND SAID, OH MY GOODNESS, THERE ARE ALL THESE THINGS WE WANTED TO DO.

WE WANTED TO HOLD, YOU KNOW, YOGA EVENTS.

WE WANTED TO HAVE A COMMUNITY, UM, FOOD EXCHANGE.

LIKE THERE'S LOTS OF THINGS THAT WE, WE HAD WANTED TO PUT ON THE LIST OF THINGS WE COULD DO, AND WE, WE DIDN'T.

AND I THINK THAT THIS NEXT TERM WE WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT.

WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO COME UP WITH SOME KIND OF COMMITMENT TO COMMUNITY EVENTS FOR THE CP? SURE.

I THINK WE COULD DO, WHETHER IT'S A YEARLY COMMITMENT OR A QUARTERLY COMMITMENT.

I, I I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN MIND.

IT'S MOSTLY JUST, YOU KNOW, THE, I I GUESS WE'LL HAVE TO FIGURE OUT DETAILS.

IF I WANT A COMMITMENT, WE CAN FIGURE THAT OUT.

UM, YEAH, I JUST, I THINK IT'S, IT WAS AN IMPORTANT PART OF OUR DISCUSSION.

UM, I APPRECIATE THAT.

UH, YOU GUYS DID A GOOD JOB MANAGING THE SIZE OF EVENTS THAT YOU HAD, ESPECIALLY WITH SHUTTLING.

I'D LIKE TO CONTINUE TO ENCOURAGE THAT.

UM, AND AS FOR THE WORRY ABOUT NAME AND TURNOVER, THIS IS ONLY A THREE YEAR COP, SO TO ME, LIKE WORSE COMES TO WORSE.

THERE'S TWO YEARS, ONE YEAR OF A BAD TENANT, AND THEN WE JUST DON'T RENEW THE COP.

IT, IT DIES WITH THE BAD TENANT BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T TAKE CARE OF IT, YOU KNOW? UM, I THINK THAT IS EVERYTHING ON MY LIST.

I'D LIKE TO FOLLOW UP ON WILL'S QUESTION.

YOU SAID THAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR 80 EVENTS TO MAKE IT FINANCIALLY FEASIBLE TO LEASE THE LAND, BUT YOU ONLY HAD 22.

AM I UNDERSTANDING THAT RIGHT? SO WHAT HAS CHANGED? WE'VE HAD 22, THAT WAS BETWEEN 2024 AND 2025.

UM, SO YEAH, EVEN FEWER.

AND THE, THE LAST FULL YEAR THAT WE HAD, UM, YOU'RE ASKING WHAT HAS CHANGED BETWEEN WHY WE'RE WANTING TO HAVE MORE OR WHY WE HAD SO FEW.

UH, YOU MENTIONED THAT TO BE FINANCIALLY FEASIBLE, YOU'RE ASKING FOR 80, BUT YOU ONLY HAD 15 IN THE ONE YEAR.

SO EITHER THAT TELLS ME YOU'RE NOT FINANCIALLY STABLE OR YOU, YOU KNOW, I, I'M JUST TRYING TO CONNECT THOSE TWO DOTS TO UNDERSTAND WHY YOU'RE ASKING FOR 80 CLOTH AND FLAME OVERHEAD IS SUPPORTING THE, THE LEASE RIGHT NOW, IT'S NOT THROUGH, UH, PROFITABLE EVENTS.

SO, SO YOU'RE SAYING 80 IS THE NUMBER TO MAKE MONEY? CORRECT.

SOME ARE APPROVED FOR 10.

I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION.

UH, WHAT, WHY THREE YEARS, CARRIE? UM, WELL, THE LAST ONE WAS APPROVED FOR JUST UNDER A YEAR AND A HALF AND THREE YEARS ON THIS ONE FELT LIKE A, LIKE, LIKE THE STAFF REPORT SAID WE HADN'T, HAVEN'T GOTTEN COMPLAINTS WITH THEIR OPERATION, BUT UNDERSTANDING THAT THE NEIGHBORS STILL HAVE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT ONGOING OPERATIONS AND INCREASING NUMBER OF EVENTS.

WE DIDN'T FEEL LIKE GIVING, YOU KNOW, AN UNLIMITED CUP WOULD BE APPROPRIATE AT THIS TIME.

AND SO THREE YEARS WOULD BE ABOUT DOUBLE THE TIME THEY GOT THIS TIME.

SO, SO, SO JUST FOR MY FUTURE UNDERSTANDING THEN, C PS ALWAYS HAVE A, A TERMINATION POINT.

SORRY.

COLLIE'S MICROPHONE IS LIKE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR FACE, SO , THERE WE GO.

UM, SO NO CS DO NOT ALWAYS HAVE A, AN EXPIRATION DATE.

SOME ARE APPROVED WITHOUT AN EXPIRATION DATE.

SOME ARE APPROVED FOR FIVE YEARS,

[00:20:01]

IT JUST KINDA DEPENDS ON THE CONDITIONS AROUND, UM, THIS SPECIFIC THING BEING ASKED FOR.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE COMMISSION HAS OFTEN CHANGED OUR RECOMMENDED EXPIRATION DATE AS WELL.

I JUST HAVE ONE MORE.

I I JUST WANNA UNDERSTAND, UM, IN THE COMMENTS BY, UH, RESIDENTS, AND THIS IS KIND OF FOR OUR ATTORNEY, THEY, I JUST WANNA UNDERSTAND.

THEY SAY, UM, BASICALLY THAT IT'S ILLEGAL TO HAVE THIS USE IN THIS ZONING CHAIR, COMMISSIONERS.

IT'S MY OPINION THAT IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO HAVE THIS USE IN THIS ZONING.

ALL OF MINE WERE ANSWERED.

ALL MY QUESTIONS WERE THESE JOE? YEAH.

I WANT TO HAVE YOU REPEAT TO ME THE NOTIFICATION DISTANCES IN THE, THE DISCUSSION ON THAT.

I, I DIDN'T WRITE IT DOWN, BUT I, I WANNA KIND OF GO OVER THAT.

SO, 'CAUSE OUR NORMAL THING IS 300 FEET SIX.

OH, WE INCREASED, YEAH, YOU INCREASED IT TO 600.

OF 600 FEET.

BUT THAT'S ALL NATIONAL FOREST, RIGHT? RIGHT.

SO DIDN'T THINK THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.

YOU DIDN'T THINK IT WAS APPROPRIATE.

SO THEN YOU WENT OUT AND THEN HOW, AND DID YOU DO ALL THAT SADDLE ROCK SUBDIVISION IS WHERE YOU GUYS, WHO, HOW, WHAT PART OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD DID YOU? SO WE WENT 600 FEET FROM THE SOUTH SIDE OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.

AND SO THE LAST TIME I OWNED WE DID 300 FEET FROM THAT LINE.

UHHUH? .

SO WE JUST INCREASED IT TO 600 FEET THIS TIME AROUND.

SO I HAVE A QUESTION.

I DON'T MIND THE NOTIFICATION.

THIS IS JUST NOT REALLY ABOUT COFFIN FLAME.

THIS IS ABOUT A PROCEDURE.

I FIND IT REALLY ANNOYING THAT WE ARE CHANGING HOW WE NOTIFY OUR COMMUNITY BASED ON WHO THE APPLICANT IS WHEN IT'S THE CITY.

AND IT WAS THE NATIONAL FOREST.

WE DIDN'T NOTIFY ANYONE OUTSIDE THE NATIONAL FOREST THAT WE WERE DOING A PROJECT.

BUT HERE WE HAVE A PRIVATE BUSINESS OWNER WHO NOT ONLY WE INCREASED IT, DOUBLED IT TO 600 FEET, BUT NOW BECAUSE IT'S 600 FEET, IT WAS STILL A FOREST.

WE AS A CITY DECIDED THAT WE'RE GONNA GO AHEAD AND WE'RE GONNA GO NOTICE THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT.

I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE CONSISTENCY.

IT'S EITHER 600 FEET OR NOT, OR A THOUSAND FEET.

BUT TO SIT THERE AND PICK AND CHOOSE, I FEEL LIKE THAT'S NOT FAIR.

I JUST DON'T.

SO I DON'T KNOW.

KURT, DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION ON THAT OR I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT.

UH, SO CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS AND VICE CHAIR MARTIN, IT'S, AS LONG AS WE MEET THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT 600 FEET, THERE'S NO OBLIGATION TO GO ABOVE IT.

BUT THERE'S NOTHING THAT PREVENTS STAFF FROM PROVIDING ADDITIONAL, UM, NOTIFICATION IF THEY FEEL LIKE THEY SHOULDN'T FOR ANY GIVEN PROJECT.

OR NOT.

SO WE'RE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT LOOKING, LIKE, PICKING AND CHOOSING, OH, THIS BUSINESS OWNER.

NO.

I MEAN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE, YOU KNOW, SAFE PLACE TO PARK, UH, UH, OUT THERE THAT WAS LIKE OVER A THOUSAND FEET OR IT WAS A QUARTER MILE OR MORE.

SO, I MEAN RIGHT.

THAT ONE WAS ON A, ON DIFFERENT LEVEL THAN EVEN THIS.

BUT I MEAN, BUT I, I DO FEEL LIKE THERE HAS TO BE SOME, I FEEL THERE SHOULD BE SOME CONSISTENCY.

I DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR.

THERE'S A MINIMUM.

UM, THEN THAT'S THE ONLY LEGAL REQUIREMENT.

SO AS FAR, FAR AS FAIR, I WANNA OPINE ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK IT, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S FAIR OR NOT.

I BUT'S JUST THE LEGAL MINIMUM.

AS LONG AS WE MEET THAT WE CAN GO ABOVE AND BEYOND THAT WHENEVER STAFF WANTS TO, IT'S JUST IT DIRECTION OF STAFF.

UM, I WOULD ALSO, SO I BELIEVE THE PROJECT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HAPPENED BEFORE THIS ONE.

UM RIGHT.

CAME BACK AND SO WE THINK WE LEARNED SOME LESSONS FROM THAT.

AND WE LIKELY WOULDN'T DO THE NOTIFICATION IN THE SAME WAY EVEN AS A CITY PROJECT.

BUT I, I, I MEAN I'M TALKING ABOUT THAT, BUT I THINK OVERALL, I THINK A BUSINESS OWNER, AS A BUSINESS OWNER MYSELF, I SHOULD HAVE THE EXPECTATION THAT NOTICES ARE GOING OUT 600 FEET, A MINIMUM OF 600 FEET.

AND WAS THE APPLICANT TOLD THAT, OH, BY THE WAY, WE DECIDED AS A CITY, BECAUSE OF WHERE YOU'RE LOCATED, WE'RE ACTUALLY GONNA BE NOTICING OUTSIDE OF THIS ANOTHER 600 FEET, THEY USED THE SAME NOTIFICATION RADIUS FOR THEIR PUBLIC OUTREACH AS WELL.

I I JUST, I THINK IT'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE.

AND I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE WRONG.

I, I MEAN, IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT.

LIKE I'M NOT, BUT I, I WANNA MAKE A POINT OF IT.

'CAUSE I, AS A BUSINESS OWNER, I JUST THINK THAT'S BECAUSE I WON'T KNOW.

SINCE WE'VE RUN INTO THEM NOW MORE THAN ONCE.

I'LL BE LIKE, ARE YOU GUYS DOING 600 FEET? ARE YOU DOING 1200 FEET? ARE YOU DOING 3000 FEET? YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IF I'M WITHIN CODE AND WE'RE NOTICING, I JUST, I'M MAKE, I'M GRANDSTANDING ON THIS.

I KNOW.

I'M SORRY, BUT I, I JUST THINK IT'S NOT FAIR.

WHEN CODE COMES BACK TO US, I'D ASSUME WE COULD ADD SOME CLARIFICATION AROUND FOREST SERVICE LAND.

I'D ASSUME BECAUSE WE DID ADD CLARIFICATION TO 600 FEET.

SO POTENTIALLY WE COULD ADD VERBIAGE WHEN CODE COMES BACK THAT CLARIFIES THESE KINDS OF SITUATIONS

[00:25:01]

YEAH, THIS HAS HAPPENED MULTIPLE TIMES AND, AND, AND I JUST USE THE CITY 'CAUSE I CAN SAY THAT ONE RIGHT AWAY, BUT IT IS A CONCERN AS A BUSINESS OWNER TO SEE THAT HAPPEN.

SO SORRY ABOUT THAT.

ALRIGHT.

I DON'T GRAND STAND OFTEN.

SO THANK YOU.

IS THAT IT? THAT'S ALL.

I'M GONNA THANK YOU.

GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS.

I'M GONNA OPEN IT TO THE PUBLIC FOR COMMENT.

FIRST WE HAVE TIM PERRY, YOU KNOW THE DRILL.

MY NAME IS TIM PERRY AND I LIVE IN SEDONA.

THERE'S THREE GOOD REASONS WHY THE COMMISSION SHOULD APPROVE, APPROVE THIS PERMIT TONIGHT.

THE FIRST IS SIMPLY THAT IT IS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT FOR BUSINESS OWNERS TO OPERATE THEIR BUSINESS IN THE LOCATION OF THEIR CHOICE.

THE SECOND IS THAT THIS APPLICATION HAS MET ALL OF THE CONDITIONS IMPOSED BY STAFF.

AND EVEN, ALTHOUGH I'M PRETTY SURE THERE'S SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN OUT THERE TRYING TO FIND THINGS WRONG WITH IT, THERE'S STILL NOT BEEN ONE REPORTED VALID COMPLAINT.

AND THE THIRD REASON IS THIS IS SEDONA.

THIS IS A CITY ANIMATED BY THE ARTS WHERE PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS HAD PERFORMANCE AND MUSIC IN THEIR BACKYARDS, LET ALONE IN VENUES NEAR THE BACKYARD.

WE REALLY HAVE TO ASK OURSELF AT TIMES LIKE THIS, WHEN PEOPLE START COMING OUT OF THE WOODWORK TO DEMAND THE SUPPRESSION, THE SILENCING OF MUSIC, OF BEAUTY, OF JOY, OF FUN, OF HUMANITY.

WHY THEY MOVE TO A TOWN ANIMATED BY THE ARTS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

IF THEY DON'T SHARE SEDONAS VALUES, WHY ARE THEY HERE? AND SEDONAS VALUES ARE THE ARTS.

IT'S ESSENTIAL FOR OUR LOCAL PERFORMERS TO HAVE PLACES WHERE THEY CAN PERFORM.

THEY COMPLAIN ALL THE TIME ABOUT THE LACK OF VENUE SPACE.

THIS OFFERS LOCAL PERFORMERS AN OPPORTUNITY BY SUPPORTING THIS PERMIT.

THE COMMISSION CONTINUES TO SUPPORT THE ARTS.

AND THE PERMITTING PROCESS IS ALSO USEFUL IN THAT IT HELPS, YOU KNOW, FLUSH OUT OF THE WOODWORK SOME OF THOSE IN THIS COMMUNITY WHO DON'T APPROVE OF THE ARTS.

IT TELLS US WHO THE BARBARIANS AMONG US ARE.

TELLS US WHICH PHILISTINES HAVE GOTTEN IN THE GATES BY PROVING THIS PERMIT, THE COMMISSION SENDS THOSE INDIVIDUALS A VERY CLEAR MESSAGE THAT THIS IS STILL SEDONA AND THIS IS STILL A TOWN WHERE MUSIC IS NOT NOISE.

ONE OTHER THING, AS SOMEONE WHO IS CURRENTLY LEARNING TO PLAY A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT SO THAT I CAN PERFORM IN PUBLIC AND BRING MORE MUSIC TO OUR COMMUNITY, I WOULD LIKE TO ASSURE THE RESIDENTS OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD THAT I WILL AT ONE POINT BE STROLLING UP AND DOWN THEIR STREETS PLAYING PROTECTED FROM THEIR DISDAIN FOR THE ARTS BY THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

THANK YOU, TIM.

NEXT UP IS GLEN.

GOOD EVENING EVERYONE.

GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONER.

UM, THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO, UM, SHARE MY CONCERNS.

UM, SO MY NAME IS GLEN BAKER AND I AM AN OWNER AND RESIDENT IN SEDONA.

AND I LIVE AT 4 4 5 PANORAMA BOULEVARD.

I'M ALREADY DEALING WITH NOISE FROM AN ESTABLISHMENT CALLED SKY RANCH LODGE.

NOW, UM, FOR THOSE THAT HAVE LIVED IN SEDONA LONG ENOUGH IS THAT I KNOW THAT MOSTLY THEIR EVENTS ARE ON WEEKENDS, ESPECIALLY WEDDING EVENTS, AND I'M TOLERATING THAT.

BUT THERE IS A LOT OF NOISE THAT COMES FROM THAT, UM, FUNCTION CENTER OR THAT LODGE DOWN AND COMES RIGHT THROUGH BEHIND AIRPORT LOOP AND RIGHT THROUGH THE BACK OF THE PROPERTIES ON PANORAMA BOULEVARD.

'CAUSE WE ARE THE FIRST STREET THAT BACKS ONTO THE AIRPORT LOOP, BE BETWEEN AIRPORT ROAD AND PANORAMA BOULEVARD.

SO I BOUGHT MY HOME IN 2018, COMING TO SEDONA FROM BOSTON WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT I WAS BUYING AN AREA OF SERENITY PEACE AND QUIETNESS TO LIVE A RETIRED LIFE.

IF I KNEW BACK IN 2018 THERE WAS GONNA BE AN ESTABLISHMENT THAT WOULD INCREASE THEIR VENUES OR THEIR EVENTS FROM 20 TO 80 WITHIN ONE MILE RADIUS FROM MY PROPERTY, I CAN ASSURE YOU TODAY I WOULD NOT HAVE BOUGHT 4, 4 5 PANORAMA BOULEVARD.

I DON'T JUST BELIEVE I'M A GREAT BELIEVER AND SUPPORTER OF THE ARTS.

I BELIEVE IN EMBRACING THE ARTS.

I BELIEVE THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE PERFORMING ARTS CENTER.

IS THAT RIGHT?

[00:30:02]

UM, AND I ALSO WANT TO SHARE THAT AIRPORT ROAD, ESPECIALLY NEAR THE MESSA LOOKOUT, IS ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS CORNERS IN THE AREA FOR A START.

THERE'S LIMITED PARKING FOR THAT LOOKOUT.

I'M NOT SO CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

I THINK THERE'S AN AVERAGE, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, 18 PARKING BAYS AND TWO OF THOSE ARE DISABLED IN THAT ONE LITTLE SPOT ON THE CORNER.

AND I HAVE BEEN IN THE AREA LONG ENOUGH TO SEE SO MANY NEAR ACCIDENTS.

MY CONCERN IS TRAFFIC.

MY CONCERN IS SAFETY AND WHAT'S GONNA BE DONE ABOUT ADDITIONAL LIGHTING, WALKWAYS AND TRAFFIC THAT THIS 20 TO IN, TO, UM, PROPOSAL OF 80 EVENTS FROM 20.

THAT'S ONE OF MY CONCERNS.

AND MY OTHER CONCERN, IF THIS PERMIT IS APPROVED, IS THE TIMING OF THESE EVENTS FINISHING AT A PARTICULAR TIME, IS THAT TIED IN WITH THE BYLAWS OF THIS PERMIT? SO WILL IT FINISH, FOR EXAMPLE, AND IT MAY BE ALREADY DOCUMENTED.

I MAY NOT HAVE READ ALL THE INFORMATION.

I THINK IT'S 6:00 PM THAT THESE EVENTS WILL FINISH OR WILL THEY FINISH AT EIGHT AND NINE AND 10? SO I HAVE A LOT OF CONCERNS, NOT BECAUSE I DO NOT WANNA PROMOTE THE ARTS AND GIVE OTHER PEOPLE OPPORTUNITIES AND BUSINESSES TO HAVE VENUES AND EVENTS.

MY CONCERN IS IT'S JEOPARDIZING, JEOPARDIZING THE LIFESTYLE THAT I CHOSE AND INVESTED HERE IN QUIET.

BEAUTIFUL SEDONA ON PANORAMA BOULEVARD.

IF I WANTED NOISE, I'D LIVE ON UPTOWN.

SO THANK YOU FOR HEARING ME.

IF THERE'S NO OTHER, I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER CARDS, SO WE'LL BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR DISCUSSION.

ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS, UM, RELATED TO HIS COMMENT ABOUT NOISE, BECAUSE WE GOT INTO THIS LAST TIME.

THE AIRPORT IS NOT PART OF THE CITY, BUT IT'S KIND OF PART IT IS PART OF THE CITY.

SO SOUND CODE COVERS END OF NOISE AT 9, 10, 10.

AND THE SOUND CODE WOULD BE THE SOUND VOLUME ON THE PROPERTY THAT IS REGISTERING THE COMPLAINT.

SO IT WOULDN'T NECESSARILY BE WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE AIRPORT.

IT'S RIGHT, RIGHT.

WHAT'S HAPPENING? YEAH.

BUT THE, THE TIME IS NINE OR 10? 10.

10:10 PM I JUST MA MAKING SURE THAT SOUND CODE COVERED THAT PROPERTY BECAUSE I CAN NEVER REMEMBER HOW WE TREAT THIS.

IF THERE'S NO OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION.

ANYONE, I'LL MAKE THE MOTION.

JUST GO FIND IT.

PAGE 11 OF YOUR PACKET.

I GOT IT.

I MOVE TO PROVE OF CASE NUMBER PZ 24 DASH 0 0 0 3 CU OH, SORRY, WHAT? I THINK YOU'RE READING FROM THE ORIGINAL PACKET.

OH, THANK YOU.

PAGE 11.

I'M JUST LOOKING FOR THE THING THAT SAYS STAFF APPROVAL.

THINK IT SAYS STAFF RECOMMENDATION.

YEAH, I'M JUST, IT'S OKAY.

I'M GETTING THERE.

SO, BUT SURE.

MY SCROLLING SKILLS ARE LIMITED.

UH, I'M ON PAS LIMIT.

UH, I MOVE TO APPROVE APPROVAL OF CASE NUMBER PZ 25 DASH 0 0 0 1 2 CUP CLOTH AND FLAME VENUE ON THE MESA RENEWAL BASED ON COMPLIANCE WITH ALL ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS OF THE LDC SECTIONS, 8.3, 8.4, AND SATISFACTION OF THE CONDITION OF USE PERMIT FINDINGS AND APPLICABLE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REQUIREMENTS AS OUTLINED IN THE STAFF REPORT, WHICH STAFF REPORT IS HEREBY ADOPTED AS THE FINDINGS OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AND THE ATTACHED CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL.

DID WE HAVE ANY CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL THAT WE NEEDED TO ADD? SORRY, WE HAVE A, I NEED A SECOND BEFORE YOU CAN DISCUSS.

I SECOND.

ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

DISCUSSION.

NOT MY NIGHT.

WELL, I, I STILL WOULD PREFER THAT IT WAS ATTACHED TO CLOTH AND FLAME RATHER THAN TO THE PROPERTY.

UM, BUT I AM, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A MAJORITY HERE TO APPROVE THAT.

IF THERE IS, PLEASE SPEAK UP, .

OKAY, THAT'S MY COMMENTS.

YEAH, MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.

Y'ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

[00:35:01]

AYE.

ALL OPPOSED? OH, AYE.

ALL OPPOSED? OH, ALL OPPOSED.

SORRY GUYS.

I'M HAVING A ROUGH NIGHT.

UM, I AM NOT ON IT TONIGHT.

JEEZ, YOU'RE DOING FINE.

TAKES A TEAM EFFORT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO, CAN I, CAN I SAY SOMETHING TO THE APPLICANT? SURE.

UH, NO, NO.

YES, YES.

IT'S UP TO THE CHAIR.

SURE.

I ATTENDED YOUR EVENT IN PINE IN THE LAVENDER FIELD.

I LOOK FORWARD TO BEING ON THE RUNWAY.

HMM.

ALL RIGHT, WE'LL CLOSE THAT ITEM AND MOVE

[6. DISCUSSION REGARDING POTENTIAL CHANGES TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE]

ON TO ITEM SIX.

DISCUSSION REGARDING POTENTIAL CHANGES TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

SO THERE IS NO PACKET ITEM FOR THIS.

THIS WAS ADDED AFTER OUR LAST MEETING WHERE, UM, WELL, BECAUSE IN ANTICIPATION OF DOING SOME COMMUN, UH, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CHANGES LATER THIS YEAR.

UM, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS AS A STANDING ITEM IN CASE THERE'S ANYTHING THAT MIGHT HAVE COME UP DURING THE MEETING OR COME UP, UM, DURING YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

'CAUSE I KNOW THAT'S WHAT YOU ALL THINK ABOUT IN ALL OF YOUR SPARE TIME.

UM, BUT AS JUST A WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE CAPTURING, UM, THOUGHTS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE AND COMMENTS.

UM, WE'LL JUST HAVE THIS AS A STANDING ITEM IF YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING TO OUR LIST OR HAVE ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT, UM, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

JOE, YOU , YOU BROUGHT UP ONE ALREADY.

WE JUST ADDRESSED NOTIFICATION, BUT I THINK AS YOU GUYS GO THROUGH CODE, AGAIN THINKING ABOUT, UM, EMPTY LAND AS A PART OF NOTIFICATION, IT FEELS MORE FAIR.

I AGREE.

AND I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY VERBIAGE TO MAKE IT MORE PREDICTABLE.

YOU KNOW, WE CAN EVEN LOOK AT PARCELS AND HOW MANY PARCELS ARE THERE ACTUAL NOTIFICATION? DEAD ZONES.

WE HAD ONE ON BREWER FOR THE WALDORF SCHOOL THAT IT NOTIFIED SOME, BUT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD WAS MOSTLY NATIONAL FOR.

SO LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'LL HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION ON HOW MUCH NATIONAL FOREST IS TOO MUCH NATIONAL FOREST.

SO I JUST, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT FOR THE FUTURE FOR YOUR GRANDSTAND.

THANK YOU .

I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT THING TO DO.

UM, NOISE CARRIES.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE CONCERN THAT FOLKS HAVE, I UNDERSTAND THAT.

UM, I RELATIVELY LIVE AROUND THE CVS PHARMACY MM-HMM .

AND I DON'T NEED TO ATTEND POSSE PARK TO GO TO ANY CONCERT.

I DON'T HAVE TO GO TO THE DRUM CIRCLE.

UM, I DON'T HAVE TO GO TO ANY OF THAT.

I CAN JUST SIT ON MY PATIO.

SO IF WE START THINKING ABOUT THE WAY NO NOISE TRAVELS IN SEDONA, IT, IT, IT IS KIND OF A PRICKLY THING, RIGHT? BECAUSE ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO NOISE ISSUES.

UM, I OBVIOUSLY, I HAVEN'T CALLED THE COMPLAINT BECAUSE IT'S, I GET TO ENJOY THE CONCERT FROM THE BEAUTY OF MY PATIO.

UH, SO IT'S A TOUGH ONE.

AND BEING ON THE AIRPORT MESA AND THERE'S A LOT OF NOISE AND AIRPORTS CAUSE NOISE ISSUES, RIGHT? WITH AIRPLANES AND JETS.

AND ESPECIALLY WHEN THE MILITARY WANTS TO PRACTICE IT, IT'S, IT DOES DISTURB THE PEACEFULNESS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

AND, AND, AND HIS, HIS, YOU KNOW, HIS THOUGHTS ARE THERE.

UM, I JUST, I I JUST WOULD LIKE SOME CONSISTENCY AND, AND I WANNA GIVE STAFF THE LEEWAY AS WELL TO BE LIKE, HEY, WE, WE DETECT THIS COULD BE A BIG ISSUE AND THIS IS WHAT WE WANNA DO, BUT HOW DO WE DO THAT WITH FAIRNESS FOR THE APPLICANT? AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THE RIGHT CHECKS AND BALANCES TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT DOING FAVORS FOR PEOPLE.

THAT'S THE BIGGEST PART IS BECAUSE WHAT IS THE BIGGEST COMP, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE COMPLAINTS ABOUT CITIES, YOU FAVOR ONLY 10 PEOPLE.

YOU DON'T LISTEN TO ANYONE ELSE.

YOU'RE NOT FRIENDLY, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

AND NONE OF THAT'S TRUE, RIGHT? AND IT'S NOT TRUE.

BUT WHEN WE DO STUFF LIKE THIS, IT APPEARS TO BE TRUE.

WELL CHAIR, I'LL FIRST APOLOGIZE, YOU GAVE ME A PLATFORM.

SO I THINK THAT'S A BIG ONE.

UM, YOU KNOW, THIS IS, I THINK A REALLY GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND, AND ROB, AS YOU'VE MENTIONED QUITE A BIT, A LOT OF TIMES YOUR FRUSTRATION WITH LAND DEVELOPMENT CODES.

SO IT'S HELPFUL I THINK FOR US TO REALLY START THINKING ABOUT THOSE CODES THAT HAVE POPPED UP IN OUR HEADS.

AND ESPECIALLY WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT, UM, HOTEL THAT WE, THAT'S GETTING REMODELED AND, AND TO REALLY BE ABLE TO BRING THOSE UP NOW.

'CAUSE THIS IS, I THINK, OUR TIME.

SO I THINK IT'D BE HELPFUL FOR US TO UNDERSTAND, BECAUSE I THINK WE ALL HAVE COMMENTS ABOUT THE CODE AND HOW WE'D LIKE FOR THINGS TO POTENTIALLY BE SHIFTED IN THE FUTURE.

UM, MAYBE TONY, YOU CAN SPEAK TO SOME OF THE IDEAS THAT WE'RE THINKING.

LIKE HOW CAN WE COLLECTIVELY GET OUR THOUGHTS TOGETHER AND BE SUPPORTIVE AND HELPFUL, UM, AND ALSO PROGRESSIVE AND ASSERTIVE IN MAKING SOME CHANGES.

[00:40:01]

SO, UM, BUT NO, THANK YOU FOR THAT.

UM, A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT WAYS AND, UM, YOU KNOW, FROM THIS BODY, I WOULD, I WOULD STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT, AND I'M GLAD WE HAVE THIS ITEM ON HERE, AND THAT'LL REGULARLY BE RECURRING BECAUSE THERE'LL BE THINGS THAT POP UP TOMORROW THAT YOU'LL THINK OF, JOT IT DOWN AT THE NEXT MEETING, UM, BRING IT TO US OR SIMPLY EMAIL IT TO US.

UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT THOUGH, UM, WE, WE'VE, AS WE START TO GO INTO THE CODE CRITIQUE PHASE, UM, WE WANT EVERYBODY TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A SAY MM-HMM .

UM, WE WANT TO GET AS MANY OPINIONS AS POSSIBLE, WHETHER IT'S A DEVELOPER, UM, WHETHER IT'S A RESIDENT, UM, JUST AN INFORMED INDIVIDUAL OR AN UNINFORMED INDIVIDUAL THAT'S JUST TIRED OF A THING.

UM, WE WANT TO HEAR EVERYBODY'S OPINIONS ON IT.

UM, AND SO ONE OF THE THOUGHTS WE HAD WAS OPENING UP, UM, YOU KNOW, THE WEBSITE, SEEING IF WE CAN SET UP A PAGE ON THE WEBSITE THAT WOULD ALLOW PEOPLE TO, UH, UM, TO JUST PROVIDE THEIR OPINIONS AND MAKE SURE THAT WE GET NOTIFICATION OUT THERE THAT THIS IS THERE AND THAT WE REALLY WANT TO HEAR PEOPLE, UM, AND THEIR THOUGHTS ON THE CODES.

UM, AND THEN, UM, I THINK MADAM CHAIR, YOU'D MENTIONED THE POSSIBILITY OF MAYBE DOING AN OPEN HOUSE MM-HMM .

IN JUST DIALOGUE WE HAD HAD.

AND I THINK THAT'S AN OUTSTANDING IDEA, UM, FOR INDIVIDUALS TO COME IN BECAUSE, UM, MANY TIMES IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT HAVING A PROBLEM WITH THE CODE CODE, IT'S ALSO SIMPLY WANTING TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE CODE WORKS MM-HMM .

AND BEING ABLE TO, UM, TO HAVE SOME OF THAT OPEN DIALOGUE AS WELL AS BRING SOME OF THEIR IDEAS ALONG.

SO, UM, SO WE ABSOLUTELY, UM, WELCOME ANY IDEAS, NOT JUST IDEAS ON HOW TO CHANGE THE CODE, BUT ALSO IDEAS ON HOW TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL VOICES GET HEARD MM-HMM .

AND THAT OUR DECISIONS, UM, AS WE MOVE FORWARD ARE INFORMED ONES.

SO, I DON'T KNOW IF I ANSWERED THE QUESTION, YOU JUST ANSWER.

NO, THAT'S GREAT.

YOU KNOW, I HAVE THE SAME VISION, SORT OF AN OPEN, SORT OF AN OPEN HOUSE WITH WHITEBOARDS, A DESIGN CHARETTE, REALLY GET PEOPLE TO, YOU KNOW, PUT THINGS DOWN FOR DISCUSSION.

KURT, ARE THERE ANY LEGAL IMPLICATIONS OF US ATTENDING SOMETHING LIKE THAT? JUST, JUST HAS TO BE NOTICED OKAY.

ON AN AGENDA POSTED.

TO BE SAFE, WE WOULD PROBABLY POST FOR BOTH YOU AND THE COUNCIL TO BE SAFE BECAUSE THEY MAY WANT TO ATTEND AS WELL.

I THINK THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

SO LET US KNOW HOW WE CAN SUPPORT THAT .

YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

BECAUSE I KNOW WE'RE LOOKING WE'LL AS WE GET CLOSER INTO THE CODE CRITIQUE PHASE, WHICH IS PROBABLY A GOOD MONTH AWAY.

UM, BEFORE WE OPEN THAT UP, IT, IT GIVES US THAT AVENUE TO THINK OF THE BEST WAYS TO GET OUT THERE.

SO IF, IF Y'ALL THINK OF SOME OTHER IDEAS, UM, LET US KNOW.

AND, AND FOR THAT MATTER, IF IT'S AN OPEN HOUSE THAT NEEDS TO BE HOSTED, SAY AT THE HIGH SCHOOL OR AT THE LIBRARY OR AT LOCAL, YOU KNOW, LOCAL BREWERY .

SO WHO KNOWS? I, WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO BE AS OPEN AS POSSIBLE.

'CAUSE WE REALLY WANT AS MANY VOICES AS WE CAN GET.

DO YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE STRUCTURED AT IE MAYBE THE FIRST ONE ADDRESSES A CERTAIN SECTION OF THE CODE? OR DO YOU THINK IT SHOULD JUST BE LIKE A COME ALL WRITE DOWN YOUR ISSUES AND WE'LL GO FROM THERE? THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.

I WAS ACTUALLY, AS YOU SAY THAT I WOULD ALMOST WANT THE FIRST ONE TO BE OVER EVERYTHING, LIKE A FREE FOR ALL.

AND THAT WAY PEOPLE CAN, YOU KNOW, THAT MAY HELP US FRAME HOW WE WANT TO DO ADDITIONAL EVENTS.

MAYBE WE HEAR QUITE A BIT, AND I'M JUST MAKING THIS UP, MAYBE IT'S ALL ABOUT SETBACKS, RIGHT? SO THEN MAYBE THAT TELLS US THAT WE NEED TO HOST ANOTHER EVENT THAT REALLY TALKS ABOUT HOW SETBACKS WORK AND, AND GIVE US YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.

SO I'M LITERALLY MAKING THIS UP AS WE GO.

SO IN THAT REGARDS THOUGH, IT MAY BE ABOUT HEARING WHAT'S REALLY ON PEOPLE'S MINDS MOST, YOU KNOW, TODAY THE THING I'VE HEARD THE MOST ABOUT IN THE LAST WEEK HAS BEEN SIGNS MM-HMM .

SO, YOU KNOW, IN THAT REGARDS, MAYBE IT BECOMES A WHOLE DISCUSSION JUST ON SIGNS MM-HMM .

SO, UM, SO THAT'S, IF I WAS TO GUESS RIGHT NOW, I'D SAY FREE FOR ALL TO START WITH AND THEN WE CAN HONE IN MM-HMM .

IF WE NEED TO HAVE MORE, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, SPECIFIC DIALOGUE.

AND THEN WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT HOW WE CAN CAST A WIDER NET MM-HMM .

TO ACTUALLY INFORM THE PUBLIC TO PARTICIPATE.

SOMETIMES THOSE JUST POSTINGS ON THE WEBSITE.

I THINK JUST THE WEBSITE ALONE IS NOT GONNA, I MEAN THE PEOPLE THAT REGULARLY CHECK IT AND YEAH.

ATTEND THESE MEETINGS WOULD KNOW TO DO IT.

PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, TO BUILD AN AWARENESS TO, TO PARTICIPATE.

BUT THAT'S NOT REALLY FAIR TO THE, YOU KNOW, SO WE'RE REALLY HOPING THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE CAN COORDINATE WITH OUR COMMUNICATIONS DEPARTMENT, DO SOME SOCIAL MEDIA OUTREACH MM-HMM .

AND OTHER TYPES, WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PUSH IT.

UM, WE CAN TALK TO THE NEWSPAPERS, WHATEVER, UM, JUST TO GET THE WORD OUT.

UM, YOU KNOW, ANYBODY THAT, THAT MIGHT HAVE AN AUDIENCE THAT THEY CAN WRITE TO MM-HMM .

UM, THAT, UH, JUST GETS

[00:45:01]

WHAT ARE WE THINKING AS FAR AS THE TIMEFRAME FOR ACTUALLY IMPLEMENTING UPDATED CODE CHANGES? SO WE WOULD SPEND ABOUT TWO MONTHS IN CODE CRITIQUE.

SO THAT AS SOON AS WE START THAT PROCESS, THAT'S, THAT'S FOR, UH, ALL OF US TO CRITIQUE IT.

THAT'S FOR OTHER INDIVIDUALS TO CRITIQUE IT.

AND THEN THAT WOULD CULMINATE WITH A SENSE OF DIRECTION, RIGHT? MM-HMM .

WHERE WE THINK THE BIGGEST GAPS ARE.

UM, IN A CRITIQUE, THAT'S WHEN WE CAN START TO ENGAGE.

WE CAN GO OUT FOR A REQUEST FOR PROPOSALS, GET, GET A, UH, THIRD PARTY CONSULTANT THAT COULD COME IN.

UM, I THINK THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS AND WHAT A TRADITIONAL CONSULTANT IS USED TO DOING IS MOST CONSULTANTS COME IN TO DO A CODE WITH AN UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU GIVE THEM A LITTLE BIT OF GUIDANCE ON WHAT SOME OF THE ISSUES ARE, BUT OTHERWISE THEY'RE FREE TO ROAM ABOUT THE COUNTRY.

UM, WE WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO, TO BE ABLE TO DIRECT IN A BETTER WAY.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHY WE DO THE CODE CRITIQUE INSTEAD OF THE, THE, A CONSULTING FIRM MM-HMM .

BECAUSE THEN WE UNDERSTAND WHAT THE ISSUES ARE MM-HMM .

AND WE CAN DIRECT THEM ON HOW TO, TO HELP ACHIEVE SOMETHING AND THEN THEY CAN BRING BEST PRACTICES TO US MM-HMM .

SO, UM, IT, IT'S A MORE TARGETED APPROACH, BUT I THINK IT'S GONNA REWARD A BETTER RESULT MM-HMM .

UM, THAN JUST OPENING THE GATES AND, AND SAYING, YOU KNOW, CONSULTANTS GO PLAY.

GREAT.

ANY COMMENTS GUYS? YEAH.

UM, I'M GONNA START MY CODE CRITIQUE IN THIS MOMENT FROM AN AIRPLANE 10,000.

I HAVE LOTS OF OPINIONS ABOUT CODE.

THIS IS MY AIRPLANE VIEW, IS MY HOPE IS WE FIND A WAY TO SIMPLIFY WITH A PRIORITIZATION OF WALKABILITY AND SUSTAINABILITY IN COMMUNITY.

BECAUSE WHEN I READ THE COMMUNITY PLAN AND I WAS THINKING ABOUT HOW IT'S AT ODDS WITH CODE, THAT WAS THE ETHOS OF FIGHT.

I FOUND OUR CODE IS INCREDIBLY LIMITING AND COMPLICATED.

IT'S EXPENSIVE AND IT CAUSE IT, WELL, YOU CAN TALK, USE SETBACKS IF YOU WANT.

LIKE IT CAUSES DIVISIONS AND COMMUNITY.

AND CURRENTLY IT'S IN, IT'S, WE'RE NOT WALKABLE.

I WOULD GUESS IT'S PROBABLY CLOSE IN THIS BUILDING, BUT TECHNICALLY I WOULD GUESS THIS BUILDING IS IN A FOOD DESERT BECAUSE OF HOW LONG IT TAKES, HOW FAR IT IS TO WALK TO SAFEWAY.

WE CAN ALL AGREE IT'S NOT A FUN WALK EITHER.

SO WITH THE FOCUS ON, WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THE BIG PICTURE OF THE COMMUNITY PLAN AND THE UPDATES WE MADE, SIMPLIFIED CODE, WALKABILITY, SUSTAINABILITY, COMMUNITY.

LIKE ABOUT A TWO YEAR PROCESS THAT ENDED AT THE END OF 2018.

WOULD REALLY, I THINK, COME A LONG WAY FOR A LOT OF THE NUANCE OF, AND WHETHER THAT'S FORM-BASED, WHICH WOULD BE A SIMPLIFICATION.

UM, OUR CODE'S SCARY.

I'VE BEEN THROUGH OUR CODE THROUGH TWO MAJOR PROJECTS, STILL SCARY.

AND SO THOSE PEOPLE WHO NEVER TOUCH IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S A, IT'S A BIG DOCUMENT.

SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF DATA TO SUPPORT SIMPLIFICATION.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF BENEFIT.

AND I THINK THAT WE COULD DO A LOT OF GOOD IN REDEVELOPMENT TO MAKE OUR PLACE A OR OUR CITY A BETTER PLACE TO LIVE.

ESPECIALLY FOR THE PEOPLE WHO MAYBE HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED A PLACE THAT IS TRULY WALKABLE AND TRULY INTEGRATED WITH MIXED USE AND ALL THOSE THINGS.

AND THE BENEFITS THAT THAT CAN REALLY BRING TO QUALITY OF LIFE.

ESPECIALLY WE'RE AN OLDER COMMUNITY.

THE LESS YOU CAN NEED, THE EASIER IT IS TO WALK, THE MORE PEOPLE WHO WOULD DO IT.

SO THERE'S MY 10,000 FOOT SOAPBOX.

AGREED.

AND WE'LL GET MORE DETAILED , WHAT, WHAT ARE THE CHANCES THAT WE COULD GET A HARD COPY OF THE CODE? SO HERE'S MY FEAR OF A HARD COPY OF A CODE.

UM, WE LITERALLY MAKE CHANGES TO THAT CODE ALL THE TIME.

THE MINUTE WE PRINT SOMETHING WITHIN A MONTH, YOU'RE GONNA BE OUTDATED.

SO I THINK IT, SO I WOULD SUGGEST STAYING DIGITAL JUST FOR THAT PURPOSE SO THAT IT STAYS RELEVANT.

UM, IF, UH, WE CAN, I'M HAPPY FOR US TO PRINT YOU A COPY, A HARD COPY OF IT, BUT JUST PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S NOT GONNA TAKE LONG AT ALL BEFORE, BEFORE THAT STATE, BEFORE.

THAT'S NO LONGER THE RIGHT CODE.

I WOULD ALSO ADD THAT THE CODE ONLINE HAS NOT BEEN UPDATED.

UM, FROM THE MOST RECENT CHANGES THAT WERE ADOPTED BY COUNCIL, APPARENTLY THE CODE PUBLISHING PEOPLE GOT OVERWHELMED WITH ALL OF THE DIFFERENT CODES THAT WERE, YOU KNOW, EFFECT LIKE NEEDS TO GO INTO EFFECT JANUARY 1ST.

UM, AND SO WE JUST, WE WOULDN'T PRINT IT RIGHT NOW EITHER.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE WAIT FOR THEM TO UPDATE IT.

SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING ONLINE RIGHT NOW, THERE ARE SOME INDICATIONS LIKE THE SECTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN AMENDED, UM, THAT ARE STILL WAITING FOR THE ONLINE UPDATE.

I HAVE A GENERAL QUESTION.

WHEN WAS IT LIKE THIS CODE FIRST MADE? LIKE HOW FAR BACK ARE WE TALKING THAT I KNOW IT'S BEEN UPDATED, BUT 2018 WAS THE MOST RECENT.

SO WE HAD A CODE THAT HAD BEEN ADOPTED IN 1994.

AND THEN IN 2016 WE HAD

[00:50:01]

AND THEN WE'VE DONE ON AVERAGE ABOUT ONE AND A HALF CODE UPDATES A YEAR SINCE THEN.

BUT THOSE HAVE BEEN MINOR CHANGES TO CLARIFY.

SO ARE WE TALKING THIS IS GONNA TAKE LIKE ANOTHER TWO YEARS OR LIKE, I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA LIKE HOW LONG.

I DON'T CARE IF IT DOES.

I WAS JUST CURIOUS.

LIKE WHAT IS NO, THAT'S A QUESTION.

A GENERAL TIMEFRAME OF AMENDING.

'CAUSE I COULD SEE THAT COULD GO ON FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER.

SO TYPICAL FOR A CODE UPDATE.

UM, DEPENDS ON TWO THINGS.

UM, ONE, IT DEPENDS ON THE EXTENT OF THE UPDATE.

YOU KNOW, ARE WE DOING, UM, ARE WE DOING UPDATES OR ARE WE DOING AN OVERHAUL? AND I THINK THAT WILL DEPEND ON WHAT WE HEAR FROM FEEDBACK PLUS THINGS THAT WE HAVE LEARNED.

UM, SO AN OVERHAUL IS GOING TO TAKE BETWEEN 10 MONTHS AND A YEAR FOR A CONSULTANT TO COMPLETE.

AND THAT'S INCLUDING THE TIME IT TAKES TO GO THROUGH THE MEETINGS AND, AND HONESTLY WRITING, REWRITING A CODE, UM, IS COMPLICATED, BUT IT'S MORE THE TIME IT TAKES TO GO THROUGH THE PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT PROCESS AND MAKE SURE THAT VOICES ARE HEARD AND PEOPLE GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO REACT TO IT.

UM, FIRST DRAFT OF A CODE IS ALWAYS GONNA HAVE ISSUES THAT PEOPLE ARE GONNA HAVE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO CLEAN UP.

AND SO IT'S, SO IT'S, IT'S IN KIND OF AN ITERATIVE PROCESS.

UM, FORTUNATELY HERE WE ARE NOT SUGGESTING DOING SUBSTANTIAL ZONING MAP CHANGES ALONG WITH IT.

OTHERWISE I'D TELL YOU ADD ANOTHER 18 MONTHS TO THAT MINIMUM, UM, BECAUSE THAT IS BRUTAL.

UM, SO I AM SO GENERALLY SPEAKING, 10 MONTHS TO A YEAR AFTER WE GET DONE WITH THE CODE CRITIQUE.

ROB.

BOY, I LOOK FORWARD TO THIS MEETING .

SO, UM, IF I RAMBLE A BIT, I APOLOGIZE, BUT TO ME, I READ THROUGH THE WHOLE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE PRETTY MUCH WORD BY WORD.

AND, YOU KNOW, YOU NEED SECTIONS TO TALK ABOUT ZONING AND USES AND ALL THE CODES I'VE SEEN DO IT IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

SOMETIMES THE USES ARE PART OF THE ZONING AND THEY SAY THIS, YOU KNOW, COMMERCIAL ALLOWS THESE USES AND THIS PARTICULAR ONE PUTS USES IN ANOTHER CHAPTER.

I DON'T HAVE A BIG CONCERN WITH THE WHOLE LDC EXCEPT 5.7.

5.7 IS SITE AND DESIGN.

AND WHAT I THINK ABOUT IS, YOU KNOW, IN THE BEGINNING OF TIME, NOT TIME, BUT LET'S JUST SAY THE 19 HUNDREDS, UM, DEVELOPMENT HAPPENED ORGANICALLY.

YOU KNOW, THE FACTORIES WERE DOWN BY THE RIVER, UH, WHERE THE BEAUTIFUL PLACE WAS, BECAME EXPENSIVE HOMES.

AND THEN THE DOWNTOWN HAPPENED AND, UH, IT WAS JUST KIND OF ORGANIC GROWTH.

AND SOME OF THOSE CITIES ARE THE ONES WE LOVE WHERE YOU HAVE A BAKERY OF ONE STORY NEXT TO A FOUR STORY APARTMENT BUILDING NEXT TO A, IT JUST, IT'S, IT'S WHAT WE LIKE.

AND MY ATTITUDE IS THAT AS TIME WENT ON, UH, MUNICIPALITIES, GOVERNMENT, IF YOU WILL, DECIDED WE'RE GONNA TRY TO CONTROL AND DICTATE WHAT HAPPENS.

BECAUSE THAT HAD SOME PROBLEMS. WE STILL LIKE IT, BUT WE WANT TO CONTROL.

UM, AND NOW WE HAVE CODES THAT SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, AND, AND THE BOTTOM LINE FOR ME ON A CODE IS PRESENTED BY OUR LAST MEETING.

I DID GO BACK TO THAT CHURCH AND LOOKED AT THAT PANTRY LOCATION.

THAT IS THE WORST.

I COULD NOT BELIEVE WHERE THEY WERE GONNA PUT THAT.

I, I, AND SO YOU CAN'T LEGISLATE BEAUTY.

YOU CAN STILL GET UGLY, PURE AND PURE WITH ALL THE RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT YOU WANT.

AND I THINK THE 5.7 TRIES TO CREATE BEAUTY BY, UH, CHANGES, UH, FOR A HOUSE OR, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THERE ARE A LOT OF RULES.

YOU KNOW, YOU NEED A FOUR FOOT ROOF, PLANE CHANGE AND YOU NEED AT LEAST, UH, EIGHT, NO MORE THAN 800 SQUARE FEET PLANE NEEDS A VARIATION.

AND HERE'S THE WAYS YOU CAN VARY IT.

AND WE STRONGLY RECOMMEND A BASIS TO BUILDINGS ARE GOOD.

AND SO I'M, FOR ME, IT COMES DOWN TO HOW MUCH DO WE THINK THE CITY SHOULD CONTROL, DESIGN AND TRY TO CONTROL THE SEDONA LOOK, YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS CODE CAME OUT BY TRYING TO CONTROL AND GET ALL THE BUILDINGS TO LOOK THE SAME, MORE OR LESS.

PATRICK IS PROMOTING THE NEW, THE NEW, UH, SEDONA FILM FESTIVAL.

YOU KNOW, AND SO I I ALSO THINK ABOUT BUILDINGS LIKE, UH,

[00:55:01]

YOU KNOW, A PLANE CHANGE EVERY 30 FEET IN A BUILDING THAT IS GONNA HAVE ONE SPACE THAT'S, UH, 80 BY 60, 80 BY A HUNDRED, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT DOESN'T WANT A SIX FOOT PLANE CHANGE.

UM, SO, AND ALSO THE ADVENT OF THE CAR AND WHAT, WHAT PLANTERS AND WHAT ORDINANCES WANT TO DO WITH GARAGES.

I WALK THROUGH MY NEIGHBORHOOD IN THE CHAPEL AREA AND SOME OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL LAID OUT HOMES I HAVE, HAVE A CARPORT.

THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE TUCKED IN THE CORNER.

THEY'RE RELATIVELY CLOSE TO THE STREET.

AND NOW WE LEGISLATE, WE HAVE TO HAVE GARAGE DOORS AND BY GOLLY, MAYBE THREE GARAGE DOORS.

AND WHEN YOU PUT THREE GARAGE DOORS FACING THE STREET TAKES UP HALF THE PROPERTY.

AND SO I JUST THINK ABOUT WHAT LEGISLATION HAS DONE.

HAS IT LEGISLATED BETTER BUILDINGS IN SEDONA? IS THERE ARE THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS NICER WITH, YOU KNOW, THREE GARAGE DOORS AND THEN A SIDEWALK THAT GOES AROUND TO THE SIDE? AND SO I, I I, I, UH, I'M GREATLY CONCERNED THAT, THAT TRYING TO LEGISLATE THAT STUFF IS HARD.

'CAUSE AGAIN, YOU CAN STILL GET UGLY.

THE OTHER THING THAT CONCERNS ME IS, UM, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODES.

YOU HAVE TO CONNECT TO ME CONCEPTUALLY DECIDE HOW MUCH CONTROL ARE WE GONNA PUT ON PEOPLE LIKE, UH, COLLIE, THAT'S, THAT'S DOING A PROJECT.

YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH DO WE WANT TO CONTROL THE LAYOUT OF YOUR BUILDING? AND, AND, UH, SOME OF THOSE KIND OF THINGS.

AND SO THAT'S A BIG QUESTION.

AND I'M REALLY, IT CONCERNS ME THAT WE WOULD OPEN THE PROCESS UP TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC WHEN IT'S A VERY SPECIFIC, VERY CAREFUL THING TO WRITE AND TO HAVE IT, UH, ENACTED LATER.

UM, LET'S JUST SAY PEOPLE SAY, UH, I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE NO SETBACKS.

I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA NOT DO NO SETBACKS.

MAYBE, I DON'T KNOW.

BUT IT'S, UH, THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT JUST WRITE THESE CODES AND I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.

YOU NEED TO GIVE THEM SOME DIRECTION, BUT, UM, WHAT THAT DIRECTION IS.

AND, BUT THESE ARE VERY, I THINK, UM, IT'S AN AREA OF PROFESSIONALISM TO WRITE THESE CODES AND THEY NEED SOME, I BELIEVE THEY NEED SOME DIRECTION, CERTAINLY.

BUT, UM, THERE'S PEOPLE THAT DO THIS ALL THE TIME.

AND I'D, I'D BE WARY OF HAVING OUR CODE DEVELOPED BY A COMMITTEE OF EVERYBODY, BUT TAKING FEEDBACK FROM EVERYBODY, MAYBE NOT DEVELOPING CODE.

THAT'S HOW I SAW IT TOO.

I SAW IT FOR FEEDBACK.

LIKE PERSON A MAY HAVE HAD AN EXPERIENCE THAT PROHIBITED DESIGN OF COMMON SENSE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT WAS LIMITED BY SOMETHING AND I JUST MAY NOT EVEN BE AWARE OF IT.

SO I SEE.

WELL, THOSE ARE GOOD IDEAS.

I SEE THAT AS I SEE THE PUBLIC, UM, ENGAGEMENT AS LIKE, HEY, LET US KNOW.

LIKE WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR EXPERIENCE, YOU KNOW, WITH EXPERIENCE COMES WISDOM.

AND IT'D BE GREAT TO UNDERSTAND THAT.

BUT YEAH, I, I AGREE THAT PROFESSIONALS NEED TO BE TASKED WITH THAT.

FOR SURE.

AND I WOULD, I WOULD ENCOURAGE, UM, SOMETIMES PEOPLE THAT HAVE SKIN IN THE GAME, SUCH AS DEVELOPERS AND CONTRACTORS MM-HMM .

UH, I'VE SEEN THAT THEY FEEL LIKE IF THEY SPEAK THEIR MIND, IT'LL COME BACK TO 'EM AND THEY'LL BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY.

UM, I WOULD JUST HAVE A, A MEETING OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT HAVE REALLY DEALT WITH BUILDING OWNERS AND BUILDING CONTRACTORS AND DEVELOPERS THAT HAVE DEALT WITH OUR LDC AND JUST LET THEM GO AT IT AND HAVE THEM BE A DISTINCT GROUP THAT YOU INTERACT WITH.

SO, BECAUSE THEY, THEY'RE THE MOST THEY HAVE TO DEAL.

AND ARCHITECTS TOO.

I THINK I TALKED TO SOME ARCHITECTS WHEN I FIRST CAME TO TOWN ABOUT, UH, THE CODE AND I WAS DEVELOPING AN ADDITION TO MY HOUSE.

AND, UM, I SENSED THAT THEY WERE NOT OPEN TO NECESSARILY SPILLING THEIR GUTS, UH, ABOUT ISSUES THEY HAD WITH THE CITY BECAUSE THEY DEALT WITH THE CITY ALL THE TIME.

AND I THINK THAT HAVING A GROUP OF PEOPLE LIKE THAT, THAT BUILD AND DESIGN IN THIS COMMUNITY JUST AS A SEPARATE GROUP TO SPEAK THEIR MIND, 'CAUSE THEY'VE GOT THE SKIN IN THE GAME, THEY CAN SAY THINGS LIKE, AFTER GOING THROUGH THE REVIEW PROCESS, I HAD TO SPEND 10% MORE.

OR, UH, I DO THIS IN OTHER TOWNS AND I DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT.

BUT I THINK THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT REALLY HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT.

[01:00:01]

AND IF OUR CITY BECOMES ONEROUS TO THE POINT WHERE PEOPLE DON'T BUILD HERE, THEN OUR CITY'S NOT GOING TO GROW AND PROGRESS.

AND I THINK THAT'S GOTTA HAPPEN, DEVELOP.

'CAUSE WE'RE ALMOST DONE BUILDING REDEVELOP IS A BIG YES.

I UNDERSTAND.

SEE, THAT'S, THAT'S AS A, AS A NORMAL, YOU KNOW, CITIZEN OF THE WORLD DRIVING AROUND SEDONA.

LIKE, THAT'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I WANNA BE ABLE TO ASK IS, YOU KNOW, 89 A IS BEAT AND IT'S LIKE, WHERE'S THE CODE FOR MY CONCERN IS WHAT'S STOPPING PEOPLE FROM THE BEAUTIFICATION OF THEIR PROPERTIES, ESPECIALLY ALONG THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.

IS IT BECAUSE THEY KNOW IF THEY TOUCH IT, THEY SUDDENLY IT'S COST PROHIBITIVE FOR THEM TO DO ANY SORT OF UPGRADES.

AND, BUT I MEAN, WE NEED TO FIND A WAY TO BEAUTIFY OUR CITY WITH UPGRADES AND MAINTENANCE AND ART AND LANDSCAPING AND THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.

I KNOW WE'RE LIMITED BECAUSE IT'S OWNED BY THE STATE, BUT WOULD YOU LIKE AN EXAMPLE OF THIS? SURE.

SO MY PROJECT ON WHITE AIR MM-HMM .

WAS A REMODEL.

WE DID NOT TOUCH THE BUILDING ENVELOPE.

MY PACKET WAS 64 PAGES OF FOR PER, FOR PERMITS MM-HMM .

FOR TO, TO GET THROUGH THE CODE PROCESS.

THAT'S THE ONE BY THE LIBRARY? NO, MINE.

THE ONE BY THE LI YEAH.

WHITE BEAR.

SO JUST AS, AS LIKE, YOU KNOW, REGARDS TO, OBVIOUSLY WE NEED TO MEET BUILDING CODE AND THERE'S ENGINEERING AND ALL THOSE THINGS, BUT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT A PACKET FOR A REMODEL OF AN INTERIOR OF A COMMERCIAL BUILDING MM-HMM .

MOVING WALLS, MOVING BATHROOMS, 64 PAGES.

WOW.

THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I, RIGHT.

THAT'S THE EXPERIENCE THAT I'VE HAD, LET ALONE TOUCHING, BUILDING ENVELOPE, LET ALONE TOUCHING USE BECAUSE I ALREADY HAD SOME FAVORABLE USE, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

SO I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I NOTICED WHEN I MOVED TO SEDONA WAS THIS HEAVY EMPHASIS ON OUR RIGHT.

THE DEVELOPERS HAVING TO DONATE TO THE ART FUNDS AND ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF.

AND IN MY HEAD I'M LIKE, WHAT ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE? WHAT ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE? WHAT ABOUT, WHAT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SIDEWALKS OR BIKE PATHS OR STREETS? AND WE'RE PUTTING THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS INTO ART DEPOSITS.

I LOVE ART.

I'M AN ARTIST MYSELF IN MY SPARE TIME IF I FIND IT.

BUT WHAT I REALLY WOULD LOVE TO SEE IS THIS, THE CITY NOT JUST BEING ALL ABOUT ART.

IT'S ABOUT BUSINESS PEOPLE.

AND IT'S ABOUT COMMUNITY MEMBERS BEING ABLE TO LIVE AND ADAPT TO THE ENVIRONMENT THAT WE LIVE IN AND TO MAKE IT EASIER WITH SAFETY, RIGHT? AND WITH COMMON SENSE.

LIKE WE DON'T WANT A, A STRIP BAR NEXT TO THE HIGH SCHOOL.

UM, BUT I THINK THAT IT'S STUFF THAT, UM, IS KEY THAT WE START HELPING THESE BUSINESSES SUCCEED.

IT'S, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NEEDING TO DRAW TOURISTS, SO THEY HAVE TO HAVE SOME KIND OF LOOK, RIGHT? SO PEOPLE WALK IN THEIR DOOR, BUT THEN IF IT'S SO EXPENSIVE TO REMODEL, TO DRAW TOURISTS AND TO STAY MODERN, AND THEN THEY HAVE SEASONAL, YOU KNOW, SALES.

SO, YOU KNOW, DURING THE BUSY SEASON THEY DO GREAT AND IN THE SLOW SEASON THEY'RE NOT DOING SO GREAT.

AND THEN IF THEY WANNA REMODEL, THEN IT COSTS SO MUCH BECAUSE OF CODE.

I, I JUST, WE NEED TO BE MORE BUSINESS FRIENDLY.

UM, AND, AND I, AND I'M SEEING THEM MORE AND MORE AS I MORE INGRAINED IN THE CHAMBER AND MORE INGRAINED IN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY THAT I JUST DON'T FEEL THAT WE ARE BUSINESS FRIENDLY, WE'RE TOURISM FRIENDLY, NOT BUSINESS FRIENDLY.

AND, AND HOW TO CODE WILL HELP WITH THAT.

IT REALLY WILL.

LIKE IF I WANTED TO MODERNIZE MY BATHROOMS, I, I, I HAVE WORK FROM HOME, SO I DON'T HAVE AN OFFICE SPACE, BUT YEAH, IT'S A BIG DEAL.

NOW I GOTTA GO THROUGH HERE AND GO THERE.

AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN JUST IN CODE WORK AND ENGINEERING FOR THE CITY, IT'S REALLY EXPENSIVE.

WHAT ALL I WANNA DO IS MOVE A WALL AND PUT A TOILET IN OR A URINAL.

SO I THINK, I THINK THAT THAT'S LIKE MY THOUGHT AS WELL.

AND YOU TALKED ABOUT DEVELOPERS, CALI COMING IN AND I CAN THINK OF ONE PERSON IN PARTICULAR WHO, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S STUBBORNNESS OR BUT NEVER SEEMS TO UNDERSTAND THE CODE AND, AND HAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION OF THE CODE ON A FAIRLY REGULAR BASIS.

AND THAT INDICATES TO ME, IF HE'S NOT STUBBORN, IS THAT IT'S TOO CONFUSING FOR HIM TO FIGURE OUT MM-HMM .

AND, AND THEN WHEN HE HAS TO REDRAW HIS SITE PLANS OR ISN'T ENGINEERING PLANS AND THEN RESUBMIT IT GETS THE CLIENT AGAIN PAYS FOR THAT REDRAW AND RESUBMIT.

SO YEAH, I THINK IT'S, I KNOW AGAIN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT, BUT I THINK UNDERSTAND PHILOSOPHICALLY WHERE I THINK THE COMMISSION'S COMING FROM IS THAT WE WANNA JUST MAKE IT LIKE, OBVIOUSLY THE ARCHITECT, 'CAUSE ROB WANTS BEAUTY, RIGHT? ROB, ROB IS REALLY GREAT ABOUT SOME OF THESE BUILDINGS ARE JUST BORING AND WHY CAN'T WE DO THIS? OH, BY, BY CODE WE HAVE TOO MUCH GLASS.

OR, YOU KNOW, THERE'S

[01:05:01]

NOT ENOUGH OF THIS.

AND, UH, AND THAT'S, THAT'S SO TRUE.

AND, AND I SEE THAT IN MY SUBDIVISION.

I LIVE IN LAY SPRINGS AND OUR ARCHITECTURAL CODE, EVERYTHING HAS TO LOOK THE SAME.

LIKE SERIOUSLY, OUR WINDOWS HAVE TO BE THE SAME DIMENSION.

THE THE MIRRORING HAS TO BE THE SAME COLOR.

UM, IT'S BORING.

UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S KIND OF, BUT IT, IT MIMICS WHAT THE CITY'S DOING.

AND, UH, AND I, WE'RE TRYING TO DRAW MORE YOUTH, AND TODAY'S YOUTH DOESN'T WANT TO LOOK THE SAME.

I MEAN, MY, MY 20-YEAR-OLD TELLS ME MY HOUSE LOOKS LIKE, YOU KNOW, I LIVE IN A FUNERAL HOME.

AND I'M LIKE, WHAT? SO, UM, BUT WHEN WE WANNA DRAW YOUTH AND FAMILY AND PEOPLE TO KEEP VITALIZING OUR COMMUNITIES, WE NEED TO CODE AFFECTS ALL THAT.

AND, AND CALLIE HIT IT RIGHT THERE.

CODE AFFECTS ALL OF THAT.

SO, UM, AGAIN, GRANDSTANDING AGAIN.

SORRY.

HEY, I ALSO THOUGHT, WELL, SHE'S SAYING BUSINESSES WHERE I COME FROM A FAMILY PERSPECTIVE MM-HMM .

IT'S NOT A FAMILY FRIENDLY PLACE.

LIKE I CAME FROM A PLACE WHERE I KNOW THE LESS RULES AND REGULATIONS AS FAR AS CODE, BUT I COULD BUILD A HOUSE, UM, FOR THREE TO SIX MONTHS.

LIKE I COULD JUST FLY THROUGH THAT HOUSE.

AND I WAS LIKE, IT TAKES YOU HOW LONG TO BUILD A HOUSE HERE? SO I WAS LIKE, I WOULD NEVER BUY A NEW HOUSE HERE.

I WOULD BUY AND REMODEL, WHICH I DID.

'CAUSE I WAS LIKE, I'M NOT, I DON'T WANNA DEAL WITH THE CITY.

LIKE THAT'S WHAT I'VE HEARD IS THE CODE, NOT THE CITY, BUT THE CODE.

EVERYBODY SAYS, IT'S JUST VERY CONFUSING.

SO I WAS LIKE, EVEN WITH MY BACKGROUND, I WAS LIKE, I AM JUST, I DON'T WANNA TOUCH IT.

SO, BUT I WOULD LIKE, AS A PERSON THAT WOULD LOVE TO START, I COME FROM A VERY ARTS TOWN TOO, WHERE I WAS LIKE, THERE'S, IT SEEMS MORE COMMERCIALIZED ART IN A LOT OF WAYS HERE.

SO LIKE ME LIVING HERE, I CAN'T JUST GO STROLL DOWN, I GO TO OTHER PLACES TO GET MY ART BECAUSE THE TOURIST, LIKE, IT'S SO TOURISTY ARTS HERE.

SO I WAS LIKE, I WOULD LIKE MORE COMMUNITY.

I WOULD, I WAS THINKING TOO, IF YOU, THERE'S A TOWN CALLED BENTONVILLE.

EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT, UM, WHERE THE WALMART TYCOON OR YOU KNOW, WHOEVER, I'VE BEEN THERE AND IT IS VERY WALKABLE, IT'S VERY FAMILY FRIENDLY, IT'S COMMUNITY FRIENDLY.

AND IT'S AN OLDER TOWN TOO.

SO I WAS LIKE, APPARENTLY LOTS OF PEOPLE, UM, DEVELOPERS GO THERE TO FIND THEIR CO YOU KNOW, AND LIKE GET IDEAS.

I WAS ALSO LIKE, HOW CAN WE EXPAND PER JUST WHAT WE HAVE HERE, BUT JUST SEE WHAT OTHER CITIES WITH A SIMILAR, YOU KNOW, SMALL TOWN GHOST TOURISTS, UM, THEIR EXPERIENCES AND YOU KNOW, GOING OUTSIDE OF OUR CITY, WHAT, WHAT DO THE PEOPLE JUST WANT THAT REALLY PEOPLE THAT HAVE A BIGGER VISION AND SEE HOW YOU CAN BUILD A BETTER BEAUTIFUL CITY FOR PEOPLE TO WANT TO STAY AND LIVE HERE TOO.

I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH BENTONVILLE CODE, BUT IT IS TOUTED IS ONE OF THE MOST BIKEABLE AND WALKABLE AND I'VE DONE ALL OF THAT THERE.

SIMILAR, SIMILAR SIZE.

MAYBE A LITTLE BIGGER, I'D ASSUME BECAUSE WE'RE TINY, BUT, UM, HEAVILY TOURISM MM-HMM .

YOU KNOW.

ABSOLUTELY GREAT COMMENTS.

BUT LOT OF IT'S, EVERYBODY BIKES MORE THAN THEY DRIVE.

THEY SAY IT'S, IT'S ACTUALLY KIND OF SCARY HOW MUCH BIKING IS THERE, BUT I BIKE ALL OVER TOWN, BUT EVERY TIME I'M LIKE, I MIGHT DIE.

I'M JUST GONNA LIKE, LIKE BE AGGRESSIVE ON THE ROAD AS A BIKER.

SO I WOULD LOVE, I WOULD LOVE MORE UPDATES TO K TO MAKE IT MORE WALKABLE AND FABLE.

SO I THINK FROM FROM, AND THESE ARE GREAT COMMENTS.

AND, AND JUST SO YOU KNOW, SO MY PHILOSOPHY, AND I'VE WRITTEN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT CODES, UM, BUT MY PHILOSOPHY HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT A CODE IS DESIGNED TO ACHIEVE, YOU KNOW, TWO THINGS.

UM, ONE, YOU HAVE AN IDEA AS PER YOUR COMMUNITY PLAN, WHAT YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE AS A COMMUNITY, RIGHT? SO THAT BECOMES YOUR MINIMUM STANDARD.

YOU KNOW, WHAT DO WE WANT TO GET OUT OF THE CODE? UM, AND THEN YOU HAVE THE DO NO HARM KINDS OF SECTIONS OF A CODE THAT BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, MAKE SURE THAT, THAT IT DOESN'T CAUSE NEGATIVE IMPACTS.

AND, AND THERE'S ALWAYS A WIDE DEFINITION OF WHAT PEOPLE CONSIDER TO BE NEGATIVE IMPACTS.

UM, BUT BEYOND THAT, I THINK A CODE REALLY IS REALLY SHOULD BE DESIGNED, UM, IN A WAY THAT LETS, THAT CREATES CREATIVE OUTLETS IF YOU WILL.

IT SHOULD NOT GET IN THE WAY OF GOOD IDEAS.

AND, UM, YOU KNOW, AND, AND SO FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, WE LOOK FOR THOSE TYPES OF SOLUTIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE COMPLICATED.

YOU CAN DO A GREAT CODE AND IT CAN BE SIMPLISTIC.

AND I WILL TELL YOU, YOUR CODE IS NOT AS BAD AS SOME, AND I CAN PROMISE YOU, YOU ARE NOT THE WORST PLACE TO WORK IN IN, IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

YOU KNOW, DESPITE WHAT ANY DEVELOPER WILL TELL YOU, EVERY DEVELOPER WILL TELL YOU, EVERY CITY I'VE EVER WORKED IN, THEY WILL ALWAYS TELL YOU IT'S THE WORST CITY IN THE WORLD TO BUILD IN EVERY PLACE.

AND I'VE BEEN IN SOME PLACES WHERE YOU CAN SKATE IN AND OUT IN 24 HOURS.

IT WAS STILL THE WORST PLACE TO, TO COME IN AND BUILD.

UM, IT'S JUST THE NATURE OF DEVELOPMENT.

BUT, UM, I AGREE WITH, WITH ROB BEING ABLE TO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE THAT DO HAVE SKIN IN THE GAME BECAUSE THEY HAVE ACTIVE KNOWLEDGE.

I THINK THAT'S FANTASTIC.

[01:10:01]

UM, WE DEFINITELY WOULD WANT TO DO THAT.

UM, BUT, UM, AND, AND AT THE SAME TIME GET OPINIONS FROM OTHER FOLKS, BUT IT'S, YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT IS A CREATIVE COMMUNITY AND WE WANT, WE WANT THAT, THAT SAME CREATIVITY TO FLOW THROUGH THE CODE.

UM, SO FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE WAYS WE CAN SIMPLIFY.

UM, WE'RE NOT JUST GONNA BE LOOKING AT THE CODE ITSELF, WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT OUR PROCESSES, UM, TO SEE AGAIN HOW WE CAN ALSO SIMPLIFY THAT PROCESS AND HOW WE CAN BUILD AS MUCH CUSTOMER SERVICE INTO THAT PROCESS.

SO I AM ALL ABOUT FINDING WAYS TO GET TO, YES.

I'M NOT VERY BIG ON THE, I NO SHOULD BE THE LAST THING THAT COMES OUT OF A CODE.

IT'S YOUR BACKSTOP.

IT'S MORE CLOSELY RELATED TO HOW DO WE HELP YOU ACHIEVE THE THING YOU WANNA ACHIEVE.

EXACTLY.

AND I THINK TOO ON THAT CREATIVITY AS, AS I'M JUST SITTING HERE THINKING AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE CODE AND BEING LIKE, UH, AND IN USING DIFFERENT IDEAS IS WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS, NON-POROUS, ALL THAT PERMEABLE PAVEMENTS, ALL THAT KINDA STUFF, A LOT OF THAT STUFF DOESN'T FIT IN CODE.

'CAUSE IT'S DIFFERENT.

IT'S JUST STUFF WE HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE OR SOMEBODY WANTS TO MAKE AN ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT AND HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE DO THAT? AND, AND ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS THINKING OF RECENTLY WAS IN LAY SPRINGS, WE NEED TO REDO OUR ROADS.

SO I WAS THINKING ABOUT SUSTAINABILITY AND I WAS LIKE, HOW'S THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THE CITY OR THE PEOPLE HERE WOULD BE INTERESTED IN JUST PULLING UP THE PAVEMENT AND PUTTING DOWN CHIP SEAL OR PULLING OR NOT CHIP SEAL, BUT YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THAT ROCK STUFF IS.

DG.

YEAH, TG DG AND NOT HAVE A ROAD.

NOW NO ONE'S GONNA GO FOR THAT 'CAUSE THEY'LL THINK THAT'S DIRT POOR AND IT'S GONNA BREAK DOWN MY, MY, BUT, BUT AGAIN, THAT WAS THE IDEA.

IF I'M GONNA PULL UP SO MANY, YOU KNOW, MILES OF PAVEMENT, WHY AM I GONNA PUT PAVEMENT BACK DOWN? 'CAUSE I'M LIKE REALLY GOING AGAINST THIS CONCEPT OF SUSTAINABILITY AND ENVIRONMENTAL ENVIRONMENT.

SO YES, I AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT.

I JUST WANTED TO USE THAT AS AN EXAMPLE BECAUSE I THINK IT'S A REAL GOOD ONE, RIGHT.

UM, WHEN WE SEE THE DAMAGE THAT WE HAVE ALL THIS WATER RUNOFF AND WE CAN'T GET IT INTO OUR GROUNDS AND HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE MAKE IT WORK? SO YEAH.

WELL, I'M EXCITED AND I ASSUME THE SUSTAIN SUSTAINABILITY DEPARTMENT IS GONNA BE VERY LOOPED IN AS WELL.

ALL THE DEPARTMENTS WILL BE BUILT IN.

UM, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN WE DESIGN, WE SHOULD BE DESIGNING FOR EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT MM-HMM .

YOU KNOW, SO, AND I'M NOT SAYING WE DON'T, BECAUSE ACTUALLY OUR CODE HAS ADDRESSED A NUMBER OF THESE SAME ISSUES.

IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, AND THERE, THE WAY OUR COMMUNITIES ARE CHANGING AND AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN, I MEAN, THINK OF COVID AND WHAT IT DID TO RETAIL MM-HMM .

YOU KNOW, RETAIL LITERALLY EXPLODED IN THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF WAYS TO APPROACH RETAIL.

AND, UM, AND THAT MADE EVERY SINGLE CODE OUT OF THE DATE.

UM, THE SAME THING CURRENTLY IS HAPPENING INDU IN INDUSTRIAL, AND I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF INDUSTRIAL, SO WE REALLY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT AS MUCH, BUT THAT INDUSTRY IS NOW REVOL, UM, YOU KNOW, IS CHANGING RADICALLY AS A RESULT OF AI AND LOGISTICS AND, AND YOU KNOW, JUST THE CHAIN OF SUPPLY AND SUPPLY CHAIN, UH, ET CETERA.

SO, UM, IT'S TOUGH TO KEEP UP WITH EVERY SINGLE THING THAT HAPPENS, PARTICULARLY IN A, IN AN INCREASINGLY DYNAMIC ENVIRONMENT.

SO BEING ABLE TO BUILD A LEVEL OF FLEXIBILITY IN THE CODE THAT ALLOWS FOR ADAPTABILITY IS GONNA BE EQUALLY IMPORTANT SO THAT WE CAN CONTINUE TO CHANGE ON THE FLY WITHOUT NEEDING TO CONTINUOUSLY COME BACK AND CHANGE OUR CODE, UM, TO BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT A CERTAIN MATERIAL, YOU KNOW, DOES THAT WE DIDN'T EXPECT.

UM, LET'S BUILD THE FLEXIBILITY IN TO BE ABLE TO INTERPRET THAT AND MOVE FORWARD.

SO, UM, I MEAN, WHAT DOES HAPPEN IF SOMEBODY COMES IN AND WANTS TO DO A RAM EARTH STRUCTURE? YEAH.

THAT'S, I DON'T KNOW YET.

INFORMATION THAT PROVES THAT IT DOES MEET THE INTENT OF THE CODE.

UM, AND THIS IS ONE THING TO KEEP STEVE'S OVER THERE SMILING.

I KNOW I'M GONNA, THAT WAS SORT OF A STEVE QUESTION MM-HMM .

BECAUSE WE DO HAVE, WE DON'T JUST HAVE THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

A LOT OF THE THINGS YOU ARE BUILDING CODES AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, STEVE'S, UM, THE RAM DOOR STRUCTURE.

IF THEY CAN SHOW THAT IT MEETS BUILDING CODE REQUIREMENTS, IT LIKELY MEETS OUR COLOR REQUIREMENTS.

AND THEN THE DESIGN OF THE HOUSE WHEN THERE'S NOTHING IN OUR CODE THAT SAY YOU CAN'T MM-HMM .

YOU JUST HAVE TO BE ABLE TO MEET.

THERE'S NOTHING IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE THAT WOULD SAY YOU CAN'T, UH, GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS, STEVE MERTIS.

UM, KERRY IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

THE BUILDING CODES ACTUALLY HAVE BAKED IN IT AN ALLOWANCE FOR THE BUILDING OFFICIAL TO LOOK AT TESTING, LOOK AT STANDARDS, AND SEE THAT IT MEETS WHAT THE INTENT OF THE CODE IS.

SO THERE IS AN APPROVAL PROCESS OUTSIDE OF THE PRESCRIPTIVE ALLOWANCES OF THE BUILDING CODES FOR SUCH SUCH STRUCTURES.

I'M SORRY.

SO YES, WE WOULD BE ABLE TO, UM, UH, ACCEPT

[01:15:01]

I HAVE A, ANOTHER QUESTION POPPED INTO MY HEAD FOR TONY.

SURE.

JUST TO UNDERSTAND AS A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR WHERE YOU ARE, AND MAYBE CARRIE TOO, UM, IN MY ARCHITECTURAL CAREER, OTHER THAN SOME MUNICIPALITIES SAYING I COULD NOT USE BUILDING MATERIALS SUCH AS CARDBOARD AND DRYWALL ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT NOBODY WOULD DO.

UM, I NEVER HAD A 5.7, I NEVER HAD, UH, ANY CITY.

I DESIGNED WHAT I WANTED.

I DESIGNED FOR THE SENSE OF PLACE, I DESIGNED FOR THE COMMUNITY.

IT WAS PART OF, I DESIGNED FOR MY CLIENT AND MY CLIENT'S ASPIRATIONS FOR WHAT THEY WANTED THEIR BUILDING TO BE.

AND I NEVER HAD A 5.7.

SO THE QUESTION IS, DO YOU THINK THAT SEDONA NEEDS TO DICTATE DESIGN STANDARDS OTHER THAN MAYBE SOME MATERIALITY? THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE QUESTIONS ACTUALLY.

UM, SO I'M GONNA SAY YES AND NO.

FROM THE STANDPOINT THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU SAID, ROB, I THINK IS ABSOLUTELY ACCURATE.

WE DESIGN FOR SENSE OF PLACE.

UM, I WILL ALSO SAY AT THE SAME TIME, WHILE I RESPECT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, UM, I CAN ALSO ANTICIPATE A NUMBER OF ARCHITECTS OR DESIGNERS THAT WON'T.

AND SO FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, BEING ABLE TO GIVE GUIDANCE ON WHAT SENSE OF PLACE MEANS TO THE COMMUNITY AND, AND BEING ABLE TO BUILD SOME OF THAT, THAT FRAMEWORK, THOSE GUARDRAILS, IF YOU ARE, IF YOU WILL, THAT WILL ALLOW US TO ENSURE THAT THE ARCHITECT THAT DOESN'T HAVE THAT SAME RESPECT FOR SENSE OF PLACE HAS BOUNDARIES THAT THAT KEEPS THEM FROM GOING TOO FAR A STRIDE FROM, YOU KNOW, SO THAT IT IMPACTS NEGATIVELY THAT SENSE OF SPACE.

THAT'S WHAT I LOOK FOR.

BUT I THINK FIRST AND FOREMOST, RIGHT OUTTA THE GATE IS TO BE ABLE TO INTERPRET FOR AN ARCHITECT OR A SITE DESIGNER, DEVELOPER, WHOMEVER, WHAT THE CITY OF SEDONA ANTICIPATES AS SENSE OF PLACE.

WHAT IS OUR CHARACTER? WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO ACHIEVE AS A COMMUNITY? UM, I WORKED WITH ONE ORGANIZATION WHERE WE GAVE A LIST OF 10 CHARACTER REFERENCES THAT WE THOUGHT WERE IMPORTANT.

UM, AND THAT WAS BUILT INTO THE PURPOSE AND WE GOT SOME INCREDIBLE SITE DESIGN JUST BASED ON HAVING THOSE GUIDING PRINCIPLES BUILT IN THE FRONT.

UM, THE REST OF IT, HONESTLY, WE HAD ONE ARCHITECT COME IN AND LITERALLY DEV, HE VIOLATED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE DESIGN STANDARDS AND IT WAS MY FAVORITE BUILDING.

UM, BECAUSE AGAIN, HE WAS, WE HAD AN OUTLET THAT ALLOWED FOR CREATIVE FREEDOM.

HE STILL MET THE INITIAL 10 PRINCIPLES.

HE JUST SAID, THE REST OF YOUR STUFF DOESN'T WORK FOR ME, BUT I CAN GIVE YOU SOMETHING THAT'S BETTER FOR THE SITE AND THE COMMUNITY.

AND SO WE HAD, WE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT.

SO I THINK FROM THAT STANDPOINT, WE HAVE TO CREATE A MINIMUM FRAMEWORK BECAUSE WE HAVE TO ANTICIPATE THAT NOT EVERYBODY IS GONNA THINK LIKE YOU, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO DO IS GET IN THE WAY OF GOOD DESIGN.

SO BEING ABLE TO DO BOTH IS CRITICAL.

WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE COMMUNITY, BUT THAT WE DON'T GET IN THE WAY OF GOOD IDEAS.

DOES THAT ANSWER, SO WHERE DO YOU THINK 5.7 STANDS? I THINK 5.7 IS AN ATTEMPT TO DO THAT.

AND I THINK IN SOME WAYS IT WAS, I THINK IN EVERY WAY THEY HAD THE BEST OF INTENTIONS.

UM, DO I THINK IT'S OVERZEALOUS? UM, I DO, I THINK IT'S OVERZEALOUS, BUT I THINK THE INTENTION WAS THERE AND I THINK THROUGH SOME SIMPLIFICATION WE CAN ACHIEVE SOME OF THE SAME IDEAS.

UM, I WILL HONESTLY SAY A LOT OF 5.7 IS CONFUSING, BUT A LOT OF IT IS CONFUSING.

BUT NOT ONCE, ONCE CARRIE EXPLAINS SOME OF IT TO ME, IT'S LIKE, OH, THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, NOW I CAN EXPLAIN IT, BUT SHE HAD TO EXPLAIN TO ME LIKE A KINDERGARTNER, BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY MOST OF US, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, A CODE IS, IS, YOU'RE RIGHT.

IT'S SCARY.

MOST CODES ARE SCARY.

HAVE TO SAY I'M THE MOST EXCITED I'VE EVER BEEN.

PARTICULARLY IF YOU'VE NOT, IF YOU'RE NOT IN THE BUSINESS, I'M ONE OF THOSE NERDS THAT CAN USUALLY LOOK THROUGH A CODE AND UNDERSTAND IT PRETTY QUICKLY.

I HAD TO ASK FOR HELP ON 5.7.

UM, SO IT'S OVERLY COMPLICATED AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE, I THINK WE CAN SIMPLIFY IT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I RESPECT WHAT THEY WERE ATTEMPTING TO DO WITH IT.

AND SO IF THAT ANSWERS THE QUESTION, I THINK THERE'S A HOME FOR IT.

BUT I THINK WE CAN DO A BETTER JOB WITH IT.

[01:20:01]

SITTING ON PLANNING AND ZONING.

I SOME INSPIRED YES.

TRULY INSPIRED.

I DON'T KNOW HOW STAFF'S FEELING.

THEY'RE PROBABLY GOING, OH GOD, HERE WE GO.

ANOTHER THING.

BUT IT'S, IT'S TRULY INSPIRING TO, UM, TO HEAR WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, TONY, AND UH, AND I'M HOPING THAT WE CAN GET CLOSE TO THERE.

UM, I'M, I'M A LITTLE PESSIMISTIC JUST BECAUSE YOU KNOW OF THE PROCESS, BUT YOU KNOW, THE, THE PUBLIC AND COUNCIL AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.

BUT I MEAN, WITH THAT KIND OF ATTITUDE, WE BREAK THROUGH CEILINGS THAT HAVE BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME AND WE'RE ABLE TO, TO GO THROUGH, ESPECIALLY WITH ROB'S PERSPECTIVE AND WHO'S NOT AFRAID TO TELL US IF HE WANTS TO VOMIT IN HIS KITCHEN SINK .

AND, UH, WHAT IN YOUR KITCHEN SINK? THE WHAT? VOMIT IN YOUR KITCHEN SINK.

OH.

DO YOU REMEMBER? YOU'RE NEVER GONNA GO DOWN FOR THAT QUOTE.

I'M SORRY.

THAT WAS THE GREATEST EVER.

I'M INSPIRED, SO THANK YOU.

I THINK THIS IS AWESOME.

NO, I THINK IT WOULD BE REALLY EXCITING TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A CODE THAT'S SUPPORTIVE AND INSPIRING AND LIKE YOU SAID, WE SHOULD BE THE LEADER AND, UM, AS OPPOSED TO A CODE THAT HAS TO BE WORKED MM-HMM .

IN ORDER TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, BEAUTIFUL DESIGN AND OWNERS TO HAVE AUTONOMY AND WHAT THEY'D LIKE.

I MEAN, IT'S, THEIR PROPERTY OWNERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO WHAT THEY WANNA DO AND LIVE THE WAY THEY WANNA LIVE IN A LOT OF WAYS WITH GUARDRAILS, BUT SURE.

UM, SO YEAH, I'M REALLY EXCITED TOO.

I MEAN, THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S ALWAYS INSPIRED ME TO, YOU KNOW, VOLUNTEER ON PLANNING AND ZONING IS, YOU KNOW, HOW CAN WE MAKE THE, YOU KNOW, PUT THE UNITY BACK IN COMMUNITY IN CREATING A BEAUTIFUL FABRIC.

SO THIS IS, I'M JAZZED TOO.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE.

SO PLEASE LET US KNOW HOW WE CAN BE HELPFUL.

YEAH, YOU BET.

AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, FUTURE MEETING DATES AND AGENDA ITEMS. TUESDAY, MARCH 3RD, 2026.

ANYBODY ELSE? OKAY, SO I'M GOING TO CLOSE THAT ITEM AND MOVE ON TO

[7. FUTURE MEETING DATES AND AGENDA ITEMS]

I CURRENTLY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING FOR THAT AGENDA.

UM, AND I'LL KNOW BY THE END OF THE WEEK AND I DON'T, I MEAN, I, I I HAVE NOTHING.

AND SO UNLESS THERE'S SOMETHING THAT POPS UP DISCUSSION IN THE BUILDING CODE , SERIOUSLY, WE SHOULD HAVE A HEARING BECAUSE IF HE'S SAYING TWO MONTHS OR THREE MONTHS DOWN, THEN WE CAN'T MOVE THE OH, WE CAN LAND DEVELOPMENT, LAND DEVELOP, SORRY, SORRY.

LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

SORRY.

THOUGHTS I THE FIRST TWO TO BE AVAILABLE.

I, I THINK THAT IF THE PROCESS IS STARTING WITH CODE CRITIQUE THAT UH, TONY AND CARRIE COULD SCHEDULE US A MEETING TO BE INVOLVED IN THAT, BUT IF IT HASN'T STARTED ROLLING DOWN THE HILL, THEN WE CAN WAIT THAT WORK FOR YOU GUYS.

DID YOU HEAR THAT? YEP.

I DID HEAR THAT.

, THAT'S, THAT'S THE THING ABOUT ATTENTION DEFICIT DISORDER.

I CAN HEAR TWO CONVERSATIONS AT ONCE.

IT'S SAD, .

SO THAT'S KIND OF MY OPINION IS IF, IF WE'RE STILL IN KIND OF PRE CRITIQUE, THEN MAYBE NOT, BUT IF WE HAVE, IF WE'RE STARTING WITH PUBLIC MEETINGS AND STARTING TO GET SOME FEEDBACK, THEN YES, THAT'S MY THOUGHT.

SO I CAN TELL YOU BY NEXT MONTH WE WILL NOT BE, WE'LL NOT NECESSARILY BE READY TO START ENGAGING THE PUBLIC YET.

WE'LL BE FORMULATING HOW WE WANT TO DO IT.

SO IT'S UM, IF YOU WANTED TO CONTINUE THE DIALOGUE WE'RE CURRENTLY HAVING.

GREAT.

UM, BUT, OR IF YOU HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL IDEAS, BUT I THINK WE CAN ALSO HANDLE MOST OF THAT JUST BY EMAIL.

UM, UNLESS YOU WANNA DO IT AS A BODY.

SO KURT, CAN YOU PLEASE REFRESH WHAT THE RULES ARE SO THAT WE DON'T BREAK OPEN MEETING LAWS AS WE START TO HAVE THIS MARINATE AND WANNA DISCUSS AND SURE.

SO, UH, CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS, THE ONLY WAY TO DISCUSS IT AS A BODY WOULD BE HERE IN AN OPEN MEETING.

UH, BUT YOU'RE FREE TO INDIVIDUALLY SEND IDEAS OR COMMENTS TO CARRIE AND TONY.

UM, BUT YOU WOULD SHOULD NOT CC MORE THAN TWO OTHER COMMISSIONERS.

SO ONLY THREE OF YOU CAN DISCUSS ANY ONE ITEM.

SO IDEALLY YOU WOULDN'T SEND, SEND IT TO ANY OTHER, UH, COMMISSIONERS.

IF YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS OR ADDITIONAL THINGS YOU WANT THEM TO CONSIDER, UH, SEND IT DIRECTLY TO TONY AND CARRIE.

THEY CAN INCORPORATE IT.

AND THEN THE NEXT PUBLIC MEETING IS WHEN IT CAN BE DISCUSSED BY THE WHOLE BODY.

CAN IT GO REVERSE WHERE TONY AND CARRIE CAN SEND US AN EMAIL AS A WHOLE AND WE REPLY INDIVIDUALLY AND NOT REPLY ALL? UH, SO YES, CARRIE AND TONY CAN, UM, SEND OUT INFORMATION TO THE CHAIR, TO THE COMMISSION, BUT THEY CAN'T SEND OUT, THEY CAN'T BE A PASS THROUGH FROM ONE COMMISSION TO BACK TO THE COMMISSION.

I GOT, I GOT THAT.

SO YEAH, IF THEY HAVE INDEPENDENT INFORMATION THAT THEY WANT TO SHARE OR THOUGHTS OR WHAT, WHERE THEY'RE AT IN THE PROCESS, THEY'RE PER PER PERFECTLY FINE.

UH, SENDING THAT TO ALL OF THE COMMISSION.

AND THEN IF WE HAD A QUESTION FOR THEM, WE JUST HAVE TO REMEMBER TO JUST HIT REPLY AND NOT HIT REPLY ALL.

CORRECT.

'CAUSE THAT MIGHT BE BETTER TOO, IF YOU GUYS HAD STUFF THAT WAS COMING OUT AND WANTED TO HEAR WHAT WE WERE THINKING INDIVIDUALLY.

PROBABLY, AGAIN, MARCH 3RD IS A MONTH AWAY.

AND SO WE WILL

[01:25:01]

WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT FUTURE MEETING DATES RIGHT NOW.

UM, SO DON'T CANCEL IT YET, BUT DON'T, I DON'T BELIEVE WE HAVE ANY PROJECTS THAT A CONTINUED DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS.

MAYBE THE ONLY THING AND WE'LL POWOW IN A COUPLE WEEKS AND SEE WHERE WE ARE AND SEE IF IT WOULD BE A GOOD TIME TO CONTINUE THAT DISCUSSION.