* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:05] OKAY, EVERYBODY, WE'RE GONNA GET STARTED. [1. CALL TO ORDER/PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE/MOMENT OF SILENCE] WELCOME TO THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING. I CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER AT FOUR 30 ON TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 24TH, 2026. AND WE'LL START WITH JOINING ME IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. I PLEDGE PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO SUPPLY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. AND NOW A MOMENT OF SILENCE. THANK YOU. MADAM CLERK, COULD YOU READ THE ROLE PLEASE? MAYOR PLU. HERE, VICE MAYOR FOLTZ. EXCUSED. COUNCILOR DUNN. EXCUSED. COUNCILOR FURMAN. PRESENT. COUNCILOR HOSSAINI? HERE. COUNCILOR KINSELLA. PRESENT. COUNCILOR F. WAY OVER HERE. . HE'S LONELY. DOWN THERE. . OKAY. ITEM THREE. [3. CONSENT ITEMS - APPROVE] CONSENT. AGENDA. IS THERE ANYBODY ON COUNCIL, STAFF OR THE PUBLIC THAT WANTS TO REMOVE AN ITEM FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA? OKAY, I THEN I WOULD ASK FOR A MOTION. MAYOR, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS THREE A THROUGH E. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? OKAY, WE'RE UNANIMOUS. JOE. NEXT [4.a. AB 3304 Appointment of six (6) citizen members to the City Council Compensation Review Work Group.] IS APPOINTMENTS AB 33 0 4. APPOINTMENT OF SIX CITIZENS, SIX CITIZEN MEMBERS TO THIS, SAY THAT 10 TIMES TO THE CITY COUNCIL COMPENSATION REVIEW WORK GROUP. AND ANNETTE, YOU WANNA GIVE US THE NAMES OF THE FOLKS? YES. THANK YOU, MAYOR PLU. UM, AS YOU KNOW, WE HAVE ESTABLISHED, OR YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED A CITY COUNCIL COMPENSATION REVIEW WORK GROUP OUT OF YOUR RETREAT THIS YEAR, AND APPOINTED, UH, COUNCILOR FURMAN TO BE THE CHAIR OF THAT GROUP. WE ADVERTISED FOR SIX MEMBERS TO, UM, SERVE ON THAT WORK GROUP, UH, FOR APPROXIMATELY THREE WEEKS. AND THE RECOMMENDATION FOR THE WORK GROUP PARTICIPANTS BASED ON OUR REVIEW OF ALL THE APPLICATIONS WE RECEIVED. EIGHT. UM, THE SIX PEOPLE BEING RECOMMENDED FOR APPOINTMENT ARE BROCK DELINSKY, COLLIE, GILLES GALESKI. HOW DID I SAY, HOW DO YOU SAY HER LAST NAME? COLLIE. COLLI COLLIE. UM, CJ HON. DIANE PHELPS, LAURA RUMAN, AND SEAN SMITH. PETE, DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU WANNA TALK, SAY ABOUT THAT? COMMENTS? UH, I'D, WELL FIRST LIKE TO THANK, UH, EVERYONE FOR APPLYING AND, UH, THANK THE CITY MANAGER AND, UH, RUSS, OUR HR MANAGER AND I, WE SAT DOWN AND REVIEWED THE APPLICATIONS AND, UH, CAME UP WITH THE SIX THAT WE WERE SIX THAT WE WERE GONNA PUT ON 2, 4, 6, ME BEING THE SEVENTH. UM, SO APPRECIATE EVERYONE, UH, APPLYING AND THINKING ABOUT IT. UM, THE PROCESS, WE'RE GONNA AIM FOR LIKE 90 MINUTE MEETINGS. WE'RE GONNA TRY TO GET THIS DONE IN THREE OR FOUR SESSIONS. RUSS WILL BE THE STAFF PERSON FOR THE COMMITTEE. UM, I KNOW A COUPLE OF PEOPLE ON HERE. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO MEETING, UH, THE OTHERS. IF THE COUNCIL APPROVES, UM, THE LIST OF PEOPLE HERE TODAY, WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE THE MOTION? I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THE MOTION PERHAPS, IF I CAN MAKE SURE I'M ON THE RIGHT PAGE. BEAR WITH ME. OKAY. I MOVE TO APPROVE THE CITY OF SEDONA, COUNCIL COMPENSATION REVIEW, WORK, GROUP, CHARTER AND APPOINT. THANK YOU. BROCK DELINSKY, COLLEAGUE ZEKI, CJ GERSHON, DIANE PHELPS, LA RUMAN, AND SEAN SMITH TO THE COUNCIL COMPENSATION REVIEW WORK GROUP WITH TERMS OF SERVICE TO END NO LATER THAN DECEMBER 31ST, 2026, OR WHEN THE WORK HAS COMPLETED ITS RECOMMENDATIONS TO COUNSEL. WHICHEVER COMES FIRST, SIR. SECOND. SECOND. THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? HEARING NONE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. [00:05:01] AYE. OPPOSED? AYE. OKAY, JOE, WE'RE UNANIMOUS. THANK YOU. NEXT IS SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS [5. SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY MAYOR/COUNCILORS/CITY MANAGER & COUNCIL ASSIGNMENTS] BY MAYOR, COUNSELORS, CITY MANAGER, AND COUNCIL ASSIGNMENTS. DO ANY COUNSELORS OR THE CITY MANAGER HAVE ANY EVENT OR ASSIGNMENT THEY WISH TO SHARE? PETE? I DO. MAYOR. THANK YOU. I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND EVERYBODY THAT THIS SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 28TH, THE YAVAPAI NATION IS HOLDING ITS EXODUS, EXODUS DAY, COMMEMORATION. UH, SO IT ALL STARTS AT 6:00 AM AT BOYTON CANYON FOR THE PRAYER. UH, 10 O'CLOCK IS THE COMPLETION OF THE, UH, WALK. AND AT 11 O'CLOCK THE PROGRAM STARTS AT VETERANS MEMORIAL PARK, WHICH IS KIND OF UNDERNEATH OR BELOW CLIFF CASTLE CASINO. IT'S A VERY, UH, UM, SIGNIFICANT EVENT TO THE YAVAPAI NATION, YAVAPAI APACHE NATION MEMBERS, AND, UH, UH, A VERY MOVING, UH, INFORMATIVE AND, UH, UH, INTERESTING EVENT IF YOU'VE NEVER GONE TO ONE BEFORE. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE? NETTE. OH, DEREK, UH, JUST A REMINDER, THE HUMANE SOCIETY OF SEDONA HS. HSS CRITTER CLASSIC GOLF TOURNAMENT, SUNDAY, APRIL 12TH AT OAK CREEK COUNTRY CLUB. UH, THE LAST I HEARD THEY WERE STILL LOOKING FOR SPONSORS, SO PLEASE REACH OUT TO 'EM AND EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT INTERESTED IN SPONSORING, PLEASE CONSIDER PARTICIPATING IN THE EVENT. OKAY, ANNETTE. THANK YOU, MAYOR. UH, A REMINDER THAT OUR ANNUAL ST. PATRICK'S DAY PARADE IS SCHEDULED FOR SATURDAY, MARCH 14TH, STARTING AT 10:30 AM ALONG JORDAN ROAD. AND SO WE ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO COME OUT AND PARTICIPATE. OKAY. AND OF COURSE, I'M SURE EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT THE 32ND SEDONA FILM FESTIVAL IS CURRENTLY IN PROGRESS AND 150 FILMS ARE BEING SHOWN ACROSS THE CITY. AND I'VE BEEN TO FOUR OF THEM SO FAR, AND I EXPECT TO GO TO A FEW MORE BEFORE THE END OF THIS WEEKEND. AND TICKERS ARE STILL AVAILABLE. SO IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN ATTENDING, YOU CAN GO TO THE BOX OFFICE AT EACH OF THE VENUES WHERE THE MOVIES ARE BEING SHOWN OR AT THE, UH, ONLINE. OKAY. WE HAVE NO EXECUTIVE SESSION REPORT, SO WE'LL MOVE TO THE PUBLIC FORUM. [7. PUBLIC FORUM] I HAVE SOME CARDS. START WITH JEN FARNSWORTH, FOLLOWED BY TIM PERRY AND MICHAEL JAMES. LONG, YOU KNOW THE DRILL. JEN. MY NAME IS JEN FARNSWORTH AND I'M A RESIDENT OF UPTOWN SEDONA, CAN YOU MOVE THE MIC A LITTLE BIT CLOSER? CAN, CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY? THANK YOU, MAYOR, COUNCIL AND STAFF. I WANNA TALK ABOUT TRUST. THE LAST COMMUNITY SURVEY, 66% OF RESIDENTS SAID THEY DO NOT HAVE CONFIDENCE IN OUR CITY'S GOVERNANCE. THAT NUMBER IS NOT GOING TO IMPROVE IF WE KEEP AVOIDING DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS ABOUT RISK AND ACCOUNTABILITY. IF I, A RESIDENT HAD NOT RAISED THIS OVER A YEAR AGO, HOW WOULD YOU HAVE KNOWN THAT? IN 2022, THE NATIONAL FIRE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION RAISED THE FIRE HAZARD CLASSIFICATION FOR ALL PARKING GARAGES? HOW WOULD YOU HAVE KNOWN THE NEW SAFETY STANDARDS REQUIRE A 33% INCREASE IN AUTOMATIC SPRINKLER SYSTEMS ON ALL GARAGE LEVELS? THE STAFF DIDN'T BRING IT UP. THE ENGINEERS, ARCHITECTS AND CONSULTANTS DIDN'T BRING IT UP. THE FIRE DISTRICT DIDN'T BRING IT UP. SO WHO IS GOING TO TELL YOU THAT THIS GARAGE IS NOW OFFICIALLY A HIGHER FIRE HAZARD THAN WHEN YOU APPROVED IT IN 2021? YOUR DECISION TO PUT A MASSIVE PARKING STRUCTURE IN A HIGH WILDFIRE CONGESTED EVACUATION PINPOINT PINPOINT INCREASES OUR FIRE RISK. AND THAT IS NOT MY OPINION. THAT IS WHAT THE NFPA CONCLUDED WHEN FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 50 YEARS, THEY RAISED GARAGE HAZARD CLASSIFICATION BECAUSE MODERN VEHICLES BURN HOTTER FASTER AND WITH MORE TO TOXIC FUMES THAN EVER BEFORE. YOU HAVEN'T HAD A SINGLE PUBLIC DISCUSSION ABOUT THE INCREASED RISK OR ABOUT THE FACT THAT AS DESIGNED AND BUILT THIS GARAGE DOES NOT EVEN MEET THE NEW NATIONAL FIRE SAFETY STANDARDS ANNOUNCED THREE YEARS AGO. IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT THE FIRE DISTRICT HAS NOT YET OFFICIALLY ADOPTED THESE STANDARDS. THEY DON'T SET THE NATIONAL STANDARDS. THEY MERELY ADOPT THEM. COUNCIL MEMBERS, YOU'VE SAID THE GARAGE IS BEING BUILT AS A BENEFIT TO THE COMMUNITY. HOW IS INCREASING OUR FIRE RISK IN UPTOWN WITH OUR EXISTING SEVERE FIRE RISK AND EXTREME EVACUATION CONSTRAINTS? A BENEFIT, OUR EVACUATION [00:10:01] CONSTRAINTS ARE SO SEVERE THAT SEDONA LITERALLY FELL OFF THE CHART COMPARED TO OVER 50 THOU, EXCUSE ME, 5,000 WESTERN CITIES. EVERY RED LINE THAT YOU'VE SET FOR THIS PROJECT HAS BEEN CROSSED. EVERY PROMISE ABOUT WHAT HAD TO HAPPEN FIRST HAS BEEN BROKEN. WHEN YOU TOOK YOUR ONE AND ONLY OFFICIAL VOTE IN 2021, THIS WAS AN $11 MILLION GARAGE WITH FREE PARKING FOR ALL, A CLEAR SOLUTION FOR UPTOWN EMPLOYEES AND WAS CONSIDERED A NOMINAL FIRE RISK. TODAY IT IS NEARLY A $27 MILLION MASSIVE STRUCTURE IN A HIGHER FIRE HAZARD CLASS. IT DOES NOT MEET THE LATEST NATIONAL FIRE SAFETY STANDARDS, HAS NO CLEAR PROVEN PLAN FOR HOW IT PAYS FOR ITSELF, HAS NO DEFINED SOLUTION FOR EMPLOYEES AND HAS NEVER BEEN EVALUATED FOR ITS IMPACT ON EVACUATION SAFETY FOR THOUSANDS IN A MAJOR WILDFIRE OR GARAGE FIRE. I END WHERE I STARTED TRUST STAFF IS LOOKING INTO COMPLIANCE, AND THAT'S A START. BUT WHETHER IT IS THIS COUNCIL OR THE NEXT ONE, THE CITY IS GOING TO HAVE TO INVEST THE ADDITIONAL TWO TO $3 MILLION TO RETROFIT THIS GARAGE TO MEET THE NEW FIRE SAFETY STANDARDS. UM, THE ONLY REAL QUESTION IS IF YOU DO IT BEFORE OR AFTER WE HAVE A SERIOUS INCIDENT, OUR SAFETY'S BEEN TAKEN FOR GRANTED FOR TOO LONG. THANK YOU. ANNETTE, DO YOU WANNA MAKE ANY COMMENTS? UH, THANK YOU, MAYOR. UM, WELL, I CAN COMMENT THAT STAFF DID RECEIVE MS. FARS WORTH'S CONCERNS AND HAS BEEN WORKING WITH THE FIRE DISTRICT TO VALIDATE WHETHER THOSE CONCERNS ARE LEGITIMATE OR NOT AND HOW THE GARAGE MEETS THOSE. UM, WE RECENTLY CONDUCTED A WATER SUPPLY TEST TO THE GARAGE WITH ARIZONA WATER, UM, MEASURING THAT WATER FLOW AGAINST THE NEW STANDARDS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN ADOPTED BY THE FIRE DEPARTMENT YET THAT MS. FARNSWORTH HAS REFERENCED. UM, AND WE DO MEET THE FIRE FLOW REQUIREMENTS UNDER THOSE FUTURE CODES. SO, UH, WE HAD PLANNED TO SEND A MEMO BACK TO THE COUNCIL AND TO MS. FARNSWORTH WITH THOSE FINDINGS. UM, IT JUST HAS NOT BEEN FINALIZED YET. SO WE COULD EXPECT TO RECEIVE A, UM, EVALUATION YES. OF HOW THE GARAGE MEETS THE NEW STANDARDS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN ADOPTED YET. CORRECT. OKAY. YES. THANK YOU, TIM. GOOD EVENING, COUNSELORS. MY NAME IS TIM PERRY AND I LIVE IN SEDONA IN TONIGHT'S INSTALLMENT OF THE LIES TOLD BY THE CITY OF SEDONA. I THINK WE'LL ADDRESS THE, UH, NON-TRANSPARENCY OF THE VICE MAYOR'S, UH, PROPOSED LISTENING SESSIONS, EVEN THOUGH HE HIMSELF HAS FLED THE SCENE OF THE CRIME. THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS WE IN THIS COMMUNITY WOULD LIKE MORE THAN THREE MINUTES TO TALK TO THE COUNCIL ABOUT THE SIZE OF STAFF, THE SIZE OF THE BUDGET, POLICE BRUTALITY, COUNCIL AND STAFF IDEOLOGY, THE COMPLEXITY OF THE CODES, THE ROADS WE ACTUALLY WANT BUILT THE UPTOWN PARKING GARAGE INSTEAD. THE LIST OF PROPOSED TOPICS FOR THE FIRST OF THESE COMMUNITY LISTENING SESSIONS THAT WAS BROUGHT TO THE COUNCIL INCLUDED SUCH ITEMS AS BUILDING PARTNERSHIPS, BUILDING CONNECTIONS, CLIMATE RESILIENCE, EDUCATING THE PUBLIC AND COUNCIL'S FINAL CHOICE, THE NEEDS OF FAMILIES AND SENIORS BY ITS DECISION. THE COUNCIL EXPRESSED ONCE AGAIN TO ALL OF US RESIDENTS WHAT DISDAIN IT HAS FOR OUR OPINIONS AND HOW THE MEMBERS OF THIS COUNCIL INTEND NOT TO TAKE ANY OF OUR OPINIONS ON SERIOUS SUBJECTS, BUT RATHER TO FOB US OFF WITH VAGUE GENERALITIES. AS FOR THE COUNCIL'S FINAL CHOICE OF TOPIC, THE NEEDS OF FAMILIES AND SENIORS, THIS TOPIC APPEARS FARCICAL ON TWO COUNTS. NUMBER ONE, THE NEEDS OF FAMILIES ARE NOT AN APPROPRIATE SUBJECT FOR A GOVERNMENT BODY TO BE DISCUSSING UNLESS THAT GOVERNMENT BODY IS DECLARING ITSELF TO BE THE NANNY STATE. THE SECOND REASON WHY IT'S A TERRIBLE CHOICE OF TOPIC IS BECAUSE THE NEEDS OF FAMILIES AND SENIORS ARE TWO THINGS THAT ARE DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED TO PUT IT BLUNTLY. WHAT FAMILIES NEED IS FOR SENIORS TO MOVE OUT OF SEDONA, MAKE PHYSICAL SPACE FOR THEM, AND STOP CONDEMNING THE EVENTS, THE FESTIVALS, THE PARTIES THAT DRAW FAMILIES TO SEDONA AND MAKE THIS A GOOD PLACE FOR FAMILIES TO LIVE. TO PUT IT IN THE WORDS OF THE PLANTOLOGIST KINDS, WHO SAID IT SO ELOQUENTLY, REMOVE YOURSELVES PERSONALLY. I ACTUALLY LIKE JEN FARNSWORTH SUGGESTION ON SURVEY TOPIC THE BEST SHE BROUGHT FORWARD. THE IDEA THAT THE COUNCIL HOLD A POSTMORTEM ON WHY ITS APPROVAL RATING IS 34% RECENT AMERICAN PRESIDENTS LOOK LIKE POPULAR LEADERS COMPARED TO THIS COUNCIL. BUT THEN AGAIN, IF THE COUNCIL REALLY WANTED TO HEAR WHAT THEY WERE DOING WRONG FROM THE PUBLIC, MAYBE THEY WOULD HAVE A BUDGET SURVEY OUT THIS YEAR SO WE COULD GIVE THEM INPUT [00:15:01] ON THE BUDGET. THEY'RE ALREADY PLANNING WITHOUT OUR INPUT. MICHAEL JAMES, LONG GOOD AFTERNOON. I GO BY MICHAEL JAMES LONG. I'M AN ARIZONA STATE CITIZEN AND HAVE BEEN DOMICILED ON THE LAND OF SEDONA FOR NINE YEARS. I HAVE HAD SEVERE LIFE-THREATENING CHRONIC MEDICAL ISSUES SINCE CHILDHOOD, IN PART FROM EXPOSURE TO ENVIRONMENTAL TOXINS INCLUDING CHEMICALS, MOLD, RADIOACTIVE ISOTOPES, CONTAMINANTS, AND THE FOOD, WATER, AND AIR, AND ELECTROMAGNETIC RADIATION, MANY OF WHICH I WAS EXPOSED TO AS A CHILD AND MY ANCESTORS WERE EXPOSED TO. AND I'M THE FOURTH GENERATION. AS SUCH, I'M A THOUSAND TIMES MORE REACTIVE AND ADVERSELY SENSITIVE THAN OTHERS. HAVING CONSISTENT BLOODY NOSES SINCE I WAS SIX, VOMITING BLOOD SINCE I WAS A TEENAGER AND SLEEPING REGULARLY, 18 OUTTA 24 HOURS THROUGHOUT ADOLESCENCE AND LATER YEARS, SOMETIMES EVEN S******G BLOOD. ALL THIS PROBABLY WOULD'VE KILLED ME BY THE TIME I WAS 25. BUT I ENDED UP HOMELESS AND I LEARNED THAT BEING GROUNDED ON THE LAND, AWAY FROM POWER LINES, CHEMICALS, ET CETERA, I COULD DETOX, START TO FEEL BETTER AND BLEED LESS. THE INCREDIBLE POWER OF SEDONA IS SUCH THAT I'M ABLE TO LIVE ABLE TO LIVE A MORE NORMAL AND PRODUCTIVE LIFE. HOWEVER, THE CONTINUAL WILLFUL IGNORANCE AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL ACTS, I GET CRIMINALIZED OVER NOTHING THROWN IN A CELL WHERE I INTERNALLY BLEED OUT DENIED ACCESS TO AID WHILE SURROUNDED BY AGGRAVATING MEDICAL CONDITIONS CAUSING CASCADING FAILURE. SO MY ONLY HOPE IS TO GO ON HUNGER STRIKE FOR WEEKS AT A TIME WHEN I WAS BEATEN TASED AND NEARLY KILLED BY THE SEDONA POLICE, WHILE I HARMED NONE BECAUSE THEY ASSUMED AGAIN I WAS A US CITIZEN, DESPITE HAVING TOLD THEM FOR YEARS I WAS NOT. IT DID NOT MATTER. AND THEY WOULD HAPPILY ESCALATE TO THE MURDER OF A FOREIGN NATIONAL IF IT MEANT THEY COULD OBTAIN MORE TAXES AND A JUSTIFICATION FOR THEIR BUDGET. THEY HAVE PROOF FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE REGARDING THE NON-US CITIZEN, NON-RESIDENT ALIEN STATUS OF MICHAEL JAMES LONG. IN FACT, THREE YEARS AGO, I SENT CERTIFIED RETURN RECEIPT TO THE YAVAPAI SHERIFF, SEDONA POLICE, SEDONA MUNICIPAL AND CITY OF SEDONA. GREEN CARDS FOR THE LATTER THREE NEVER ARRIVED, AND THE CITY PRETENDS TO REFUSE NOTICE. THE SHERIFF DID, HOWEVER, RETURN MY RESPONSE WITH THE LETTER. I ASKED THE NEW SEDONA MUNICIPAL JUDGE ABOUT THIS, AND HE SAID, THE COURT IS TOO BUSY TO SIGN FOR DOCUMENTS. THE COURT IS TOO BUSY TO FOLLOW FEDERAL MAIL LAW. THIS PREVENTS THE LEGAL CHAIN OF CUSTODY FROM BEING COMPLETED UNLESS THEY CAN CONTINUE TO FEIGN IGNORANCE AND ABUSE RIGHTS USING MY US DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT PRIVATE MOTOR CARRIER NUMBER WITH MY AUTOMOBILE, I CAN AND HAVE TRAVELED DOWN 89 A RIGHT NEXT TO THE YAVAPAI COUNTY SHERIFF CRUISERS WHILE MOVING, THEY HAVE NO PROBLEMS. I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH OTHER FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS, STATE TROOPERS, OR CITY COPS IN ANY PLACE I SHOW MY PASSPORT TO ONLY IN SEDONA, I'VE BEEN THE RECIPIENT OF CONTINUAL THREATS BY LAW ENFORCEMENT, INCLUDING DEATH. I'LL USE MY GUN AND SHOOT YOU DISMEMBERMENT. THESE HANDCUFFS ARE SO TIGHT, YOUR HANDS ARE TURNING PURPLE AND THEY'LL BE AMPUTATED. PHYSICAL ABUSE, FORCED RADIATION EXPOSURE, AND QUOTE, FATES WORSE THAN DEATH THAT I WILL LIVE TO REGRET. END QUOTE, THE PLANET'S, SATURN AND NEPTUNE ENTERED ZERO DEGREES ARIES A COUPLE DAYS AGO. THE LAST TIME THIS PARTICULAR CONJUNCTION HAPPENED WAS THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR. AND MANY PROMINENT ASTROLOGERS ARE USING THAT PHRASE, CIVIL WAR. I HOPE AND PRAY THAT WE CAN HAVE A SECOND RENAISSANCE INSTEAD OF A SECOND CIVIL WAR, BUT I'M ONLY ONE MAN AND IT TAKES COOPERATION. THIS IS AMERICA. GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH. I KNOW MY RIGHTS AND I KNOW I DIDN'T HARM ANYONE ELSE. I'M READY TO BE KILLED FOR THE CONSTITUTION. ARIZONA HAS THE FOURTH WORST POLICE MURDER RATE IN AMERICA. ARE YOU READY TO MAKE ME A MARTYR FOR I'M READY TO WATER THE TREE OF LIBERTY AND REFLECT MY VITALITY UPON THOSE WHO BENEFIT FROM MY SUFFERING. FOR THEY HAVE IGNORED ALL REASON NOTICE AND LAW. TRUE AMERICANS LOVE FIGHTING FOR THE CONSTITUTION. THAT'S WHAT MADE AMERICA GREAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY, I HAVE NO MORE CARDS, SO WE'LL MOVE ON TO PROCLAMATIONS, RECOGNITIONS AND AWARDS. WE HAVE NONE. SO REGULAR BUSINESS NINE A DISCUSSION, OH, UH, [9.b. AB 3276 Public hearing/presentation/discussion concerning whether the City of Sedona should extend the Alternative Expenditure Limitation – Home Rule Option with regard to the City Budget. This is the first of two public hearings and this issue would be placed on the July 21, 2026 ballot for voter approval.] B SORRY, UH, AB 32 76, PUBLIC HEARING PRESENTATION DISCUSSION CONCERNING WHETHER THE CITY OF SEDONA SHOULD EXTEND THE ALTERNATIVE EXPENDITURE LIMITATION HOME RULE OPTION WITH REGARD TO THE CITY BUDGET, THIS IS THE FIRST OF TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS, AND THIS ISSUE WOULD BE PLACED ON THE JULY 21ST, 2026 BALLOT FOR VOTER APPROVAL. WOULD YOU LIKE TO START US OFF? YEAH. OKAY. OKAY, BARBARA. HI, BARBARA WHITEHORN, UH, DEPUTY CITY MANAGER. GOOD EVENING, UH, MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS. UM, TYLER MOFFITT, OUR COMMUNICATIONS MANAGER, AND I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON AN EDUCATIONAL SLIDESHOW THAT WE'RE GOING OUT TO GROUPS THAT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT HOME RULE, AND WE WILL PRESENT THAT TO YOU ALL TONIGHT. WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. SO THIS WILL LAST ABOUT 10 OR 12 MINUTES, AND WE'RE JUST GONNA WALK YOU THROUGH JUST A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND. UH, AS BARBARA SAID, I'M TYLER MAFF AT THE CITY'S COMMUNICATIONS MANAGER. AND, UH, WE ARE HERE TALKING TONIGHT ABOUT THE STATE'S ALTERNATIVE EXPENDITURE LIMITATION. SO NOT A TERRIBLY EXCITING NAME, BUT, UH, POTENTIALLY MANY CONSEQUENCES FOR THE CITY OF SEDONA COMING UP THIS SUMMER. AND I FELT THAT IT WOULD BE REALLY USEFUL IF [00:20:01] WE STARTED OFF FOR THE EDIFICATION OF THOSE IN THE AUDIENCE WITH A LITTLE BIT OF SOME BACKGROUND WITH WHAT THIS MEANS. UM, ESSENTIALLY IN 1980, ARIZONA VOTERS APPROVED SPENDING LIMITS FOR COUNTIES AND CITIES IN THE STATE. UH, AND THIS REALLY OUTLINED SEVERAL THINGS THAT YOU SEE HERE IN BULLET POINTS. FIRST OF ALL, IT SET A STATE EXPENDITURE LIMIT. UM, IT PROVIDED FOR TWO ALTERNATIVES TO THE STATE, SAID LIMIT, WHICH INCLUDE THE HOME RULE AND THE PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT. I WILL GO INTO THOSE IN JUST A MOMENT. IT ALSO PROVIDED OPTIONS FOR A ONE-TIME OVERRIDE. UH, BUT I THINK THE TAKEAWAY HERE FROM THIS SLIDE, AT LEAST ON THE BACKGROUND IN THE HISTORY, IS THAT 90% OF ALL ARIZONA CITIES AND TOWNS USE AN ALTERNATIVE, UH, TO THE STATE SET LIMIT. OKAY, SO I JUST SAID THAT WE WERE GOING TO GO INTO WHAT THOSE ALTERNATIVES ARE TO THE STATE SET LIMIT. AND, UH, I'M GOING TO FOCUS IN ON HOME RULE, UH, BECAUSE WE ARE HAVING A PUBLIC HEARING TONIGHT ON, UH, WHETHER OR NOT THIS SHOULD BE PLACED ON THE BALLOT IN, UH, THE JULY PRIMARY ELECTION. SO REALLY, UM, THE ALTERNATIVE EXPENDITURE LIMITATION ALLOWS A CITY TO SET ITS OWN SPENDING LIMITATION BASED ON CURRENT AND PROJECTED REVENUE AND LOCAL SERVICE DEMANDS. THAT IS THE HOME RULE OPTION. UM, FOR THOSE AT HOME, JUST, UH, TAKE A LOOK AT THE DEFINITION FOR THE PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENTS. UM, THE CITY OF SEDONA HAS, UH, HISTORICALLY HAD HOME RULE IN PLACE. MOST RECENTLY, UH, SEDONA VOTERS CONSIDERED A HOME RULE OPTION IN 2022, UH, WHERE IT PASSED WITH 64% OF VOTERS IN FAVOR OF IT. UM, IT MUST BE APPROVED BY THE VOTERS AND RENEWED EVERY FOUR YEARS. AND SEDONA HAS REALLY BEEN OPERATING UNDER A HOME RULE, UH, PARADIGM FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS. UM, SO WE ARE HAVING PUBLIC HEARINGS. TWO OF THEM ARE REQUIRED. ONE IS GOING TO TAKE PLACE OBVIOUSLY, UH, THIS EVENING, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE HAVING. AND THEN THE NEXT ONE WILL TAKE PLACE ON MARCH 10TH. I WANTED TO GO INTO A COUPLE OF THINGS REALLY RELATED TO, UM, UH, HOME RULE AND HOW THE STATE CALCULATES IT. UM, YOU KNOW, SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT AND SOME THINGS FOR CONSIDERATION. FIRST, THE STATE USES A POPULATION GROWTH FORMULA AND IT COMBINES IT WITH A STATEWIDE INFLATION FACTOR. UH, WHAT IT DOES NOT CONSIDER AS PART OF THE, UH, STATE ALTERNATIVE EXPENDITURE LIMITATION IS, UM, VISITOR POPULATION, OTHER COMMERCIAL GROWTH. AND IT ALSO DOES NOT ACCOUNT FOR OTHER SOURCES OF REVENUE SUCH AS NEW UTILITIES, INCREASED BED AND SALES TAX, AND NEW SOURCES OF REVENUE, SUCH AS POTENTIAL PAID PARKING. UM, LET'S EXPAND ON THAT JUST A LITTLE BIT. UM, IT ALSO DOES NOT, UM, ADJUST FOR ADDITIONAL SERVICES WHICH RESULT FROM CITIZEN AND VISITOR DEMAND AND COMMUNITY, UH, PRIORITIES. SO FOR INSTANCE, AFFORDABLE HOUSING EFFORTS, SUSTAINABILITY AND TRANSIT NEEDS. UH, REALLY WHAT THE FORMULA FROM THE STATE DOES IS IT BASES IT ON A 1978 POPULATION ADJUSTMENT IN THE 1980S, UH, BUDGET ADJUSTMENT. AND AS WE'RE ALL AWARE, SEDONA WAS NOT INCORPORATED UNTIL 1988. UH, BARBARA, WOULD YOU LIKE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE ONE-TIME OPTION, UH, UNDER THE STATE LIMIT? AND THEN YOU CAN TAKE US HOME FROM THERE. YES, THANK YOU, TYLER. SO, IF VOTERS DIDN'T APPROVE HOME RULE, THE BUDGET FOR FISCAL 27 WOULD CONTINUE AS IS BECAUSE THE LAST HOME RULE WAS GOOD FROM FISCAL 23 TO FISCAL 27, AND THEN THERE WOULD BE AN OPTION TO HAVE AN ELECTION IN MAY OF 2027 FOR A ONE TIME OVERRIDE, WHICH WOULD ALLOW A BUDGET TO BE SET BY THE COUNCIL FOR FISCAL YEAR 2028. WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT A ONE TIME OVERRIDE IS THAT IT IS NOT A, A MECHANISM FOR LIKE VOTERS TO SAY, WE WANT THIS THING, BUT NOT THIS THING, OR, YOU KNOW, MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT INDIVIDUAL ITEMS. IT REALLY IS JUST A, WE ALLOW AN OVERRIDE UP TO THIS AMOUNT THAT HAS BEEN SET. UM, THE TIMING OF THAT ELECTION OBVIOUSLY WOULD CREATE UNCERTAINTY AND, UM, REALLY A ONE TIME OVERRIDE IS GENERALLY USED TO ALLOW THE COMPLETION OF PROJECTS THAT ARE IN PROGRESS. SO, TO GIVE A LITTLE CONTEXT TO THE CITY'S BUDGETING PRACTICES, WHICH I THINK IS IMPORTANT WHEN YOU LOOK AT LIKE, SHOULD WE, YOU KNOW, HAVE HOME RULES, SHOULD WE DO A STATE LIMIT? SHOULD, HOW SHOULD WE BUDGET? I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT THE CITY HAS A REALLY ROBUST REVIEW THAT IS MULTI-LAYERED. WE HAVE A CITIZEN'S BUDGET WORK GROUP, CITY COUNCIL, PUBLIC MEETINGS, WORKSHOPS, AND TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS, AN INDEPENDENT AUDIT. THEY ALSO AUDIT THE, UH, THAT'S FOR OUR FINANCIALS, AND THEN THEY AUDIT THE EXPENDITURE LIMITATION, THE HIGHWAY USER FUND REVENUE THAT WE RECEIVE. AND THEN EVERY THREE YEARS OUR MUNICIPAL COURT IS AUDITED. UM, WE ALSO ADHERE TO BEST PRACTICES THAT ARE ADOPTED NATIONWIDE. WE'VE BEEN RECEIVING THE CERTIFICATE OF ACHIEVEMENT FOR EXCELLENCE IN FINANCIAL REPORTING FOR 25 YEARS, AND THE DISTINGUISHED BUDGET PRESENTATION AWARD FOR [00:25:01] 13 YEARS. AND WE ARE, UH, OUR BONDS ARE INVESTMENT GRADE. SO WHAT HAPPENS IF THERE ISN'T HOME RULE, IF THE STATE LIMIT ACTUALLY BECOMES THE RULE? WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT REVENUES ARE STILL COLLECTED. IT, THERE IS NO CHANGE TO REVENUES. TAXES DON'T GO UP OR DOWN. ALL OF THE FEES AND CHARGES, EVERYTHING STAYS THE SAME, BUT THE REVENUE CANNOT BE SPENT BY THE CITY. IT SITS IN THE BANK. UM, THERE WOULD BE SIGNIFICANT SERVICE LEVEL REDUCTIONS. AND I DON'T WANT TO FEAR MONGER HERE BECAUSE THIS REALLY IS JUST EDUCATIONAL. THIS IS THE REALITY OF WHAT WOULD HAPPEN. UM, PRIORITY WOULD HAVE TO BE GIVEN TO LEGALLY REQUIRED FUNCTIONS OF THE CITY. SO THIS GIVES AN IDEA OF WHAT THE EXPENDITURE LIMIT WOULD BE. SO OUR ADOPTED BUDGET IN FISCAL YEAR 26 WAS ABOUT 103.3 MILLION. UM, WE ANTICIPATE IT TO BE LESS THAN THAT FOR FISCAL 27, BUT WE'RE STARTING FROM THERE BECAUSE WE HAVE THIS BUDGET. I'M GONNA GET RID OF THAT. OKAY. THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. I DIDN'T WANNA MESS WITH YOUR STUFF. SORRY, Y'ALL DIDN'T REALIZE THAT WAS UP THERE. UM, SO IF THE LIMIT WAS 15.4 MILLION AND OUR BUDGET WAS 130.3, AND THEN WE DO HAVE EXEMPTIONS. EXEMPTIONS INCLUDE DEBT SERVICE BECAUSE THAT WE, WE ARE COMMITTED TO PAYING DEBT SERVICE GRANT REVENUE. IF GRANTS ARE PROVIDED, THAT'S SOMEBODY ELSE'S MONEY PAYING FOR SOMETHING IN THE CITY, SO THAT ISN'T INCLUDED. AND THEN REVENUE FROM THE STATE, LIKE HIGHWAY USER REVENUES, THAT'S ABOUT 16.2 MILLION OF OUR BUDGET. SO IF YOU REDUCE THAT 103 BY THAT YOU HAVE 87 MILLION, THAT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO A LIMIT OF 15.4. RIGHT. WHOOPS. NOT IN THE RIGHT PLACE NOW. THERE WE GO. SO FOR A VISUAL OF HOW THIS WORKS, I KNOW YOU ALL HAVE SEEN THIS, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF EVERYONE IN THE AUDIENCE HAS, THESE ARE THE REQUIRED FUNCTIONS OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND HOW MUCH THEY COST THE CITY IN FISCAL YEAR 26. AND THIS EXCLUDES DEBT SERVICE AND GRANT FUNDED AND STATE FUNDED. SO YOU'VE GOT WASTEWATER, POLICE STREETS, STORMWATER, THE COURT CLERK, AND THEN PLANNING AND PERMITTING AND BUILDING SAFETY. IT'S ABOUT 25.5 MILLION OTHER FUNCTIONS, WHICH AREN'T NECESSARILY LEGALLY REQUIRED, BUT ARE DESIRABLE AND IMPORTANT, AND IN SOME CASES ESSENTIAL SERVICES. BUT THESE FUNCTIONS THAT ARE NOT LEGALLY REQUIRED ARE ABOUT $61 MILLION, 61 AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS. THE SERVICE IMPACT, YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT THE REQUIRED FUNCTIONS ARE 25.5, WHICH IS 10.1 MILLION OR 40% OVER THE LIMIT. THEY, THESE WOULD BE THE PRIORITY FOR FUNDING, BUT THERE STILL WOULDN'T BE ENOUGH FUNDING TO COVER THE REQUIRED FUNCTIONS. OTHER FUNCTIONS, WHICH IS PROGRAMS AND SERVICES OF ABOUT 19 MILLION, AND THEN CAPITAL PROJECTS OF ABOUT 42 MILLION WOULD HAVE TO BE SECONDARY FOR FUNDING. AND THEN THIS IS A PICTURE OF LIKE THE WHOLE BUDGET WITH REQUIRED FUNCTIONS AND OTHER FUNCTIONS, AND THOSE WOULD PROBABLY GO AWAY. THE OTHER FUNCTIONS AND THEN ABOUT 40% OF REQUIRED FUNCTIONS COULD ALSO NOT BE FUNDED. OBVIOUSLY COUNCIL WOULD MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT THINGS WERE MOST ESSENTIAL IN THAT. UM, IT ISN'T THAT LITERALLY WE WOULD CUT EACH THING BY THAT AMOUNT, BUT IT'S JUST A VISUAL OF HOW MUCH OF THE BUDGET THIS WOULD APPLY TO. AND THAT IS THE END OF OUR PRESENTATION. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, UM, COULD YOU JUST GO BACK THROUGH THOSE SLIDES? YOU KIND OF JUMPED THROUGH 'EM QUICKLY. BACK BACK. OKAY. SO, NOPE, SORRY, THAT ONE. OKAY. SO THAT'S EVERYTHING? YES. ALL RIGHT. AND THEN, THEN JUST TO GIVE THE AUDIENCE THE TIME TO REGISTER, UH, AND THEN THAT'S WHAT WE COULD FUND WITH NO HOME RULES. CORRECT. OKAY. I JUST, YOU KIND OF WENT THROUGH IT QUICKLY AND I KNOW WE'VE SEEN IT, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT EVERYBODY ELSE HAS, SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE EVERYONE'S HAD TIME TO SEE THAT. OKAY. CHARLOTTE, UM, BARBARA, CAN YOU TELL US WHO YOU HAVE PRESENTED TO SO FAR AND WHAT OTHER GROUPS HAVE EXPRESSED INTEREST IN HEARING? WE'VE PRESENTED TO THE, WHAT'S IT CALLED? SEDONA LODGING. [00:30:01] THE LODGING COUNSEL. LODGING COUNCIL. UM, AND TYLER KNOWS BETTER THAN I WHO WERE SCHEDULED. I'M JUST SAYING ACCEPT, ACCEPT, ACCEPT. UM, YEAH, SO MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WE HAVE 10 OR 11 PRESENTATIONS SCHEDULED, UH, WITH ADDITIONAL COMMUNITY GROUPS, AND THEN, UH, WE'RE CIRCLING BACK TO ADD EVEN MORE. UH, WE'RE REACHING OUT TO HOAS AS WELL. SO WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO HAVE A, A, A BROAD BRUSH APPROACH HERE TO OUR COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AND EDUCATION ON THIS. ARE YOU EXPECTING TO HAVE ANY, IF YOU DON'T BELONG TO A PARTICULAR COMMUNITY ORGANIZATION? ANY JUST GENERAL, UM, PUBLIC MEETINGS? UM, IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED AMONG STAFF THAT, UH, THERE WILL BE OPPORTUNITIES FOR, UH, THE PUBLIC TO COME IN AND TO LEARN MORE AND TO HEAR, UM, UH, BOTH PRO AND ANTI ARGUMENTS IN, IN, IN A CONTEXT SUCH AS THIS, UH, THAT WAS DONE FOUR YEARS AGO AND WE PLAN TO DO IT AGAIN. UH, WE DON'T HAVE SPECIFIC DATES AT THIS TIME, BUT, UH, WE HOPE TO COMMUNICATE THAT INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC AS THE ELECTION DRAWS CLOSER. AND, UM, IT MAY DEPEND ON THE COMMUNITY ORGANIZATION, BUT ARE THOSE, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, WOULD THOSE BE OPEN TO OTHER, SAY, NON-MEMBERS TO SHOW UP? IF THE ROTARY WANTED TO HEAR IT, COULD NON ROTARIANS ATTEND? UM, I WOULD HAVE TO DEFER TO THOSE SPECIFIC ORGANIZATIONS, BUT WE WANT AS MANY PEOPLE TO HEAR THIS INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE. AND, AND WE WILL, UH, DO OUR ABSOLUTE BEST TO, TO COMMUNICATE THE, THE KEY DETAILS AND, AND PROVIDE IT THROUGH, UH, THE CITY'S WEBSITE AND OTHER CHANNELS AS NECESSARY. THANK YOU. SINCE I'M A ROTARIAN, I CAN TELL YOU THAT ANYBODY CAN ATTEND OUR MEETINGS. THERE ARE THREE DIFFERENT ROTARY CLUBS IN TOWN, BUT IT SHOULD BE THE SAME. ACTUALLY, ONE OF THEM IS A VOC, SO TWO IN SEDONA. JUST ADDING ON TO THAT JUST A LITTLE BIT, IF I MAY, TYLER, CAN I ASK THE MEETINGS THAT YOU HAVE SCHEDULED, HOW MANY OF THEM ARE OCCURRING BEFORE OUR NEXT PUBLIC HEARING? UM, IN SO FAR AS I'M AWARE, UH, NONE WILL BE, OR MAYBE ONE WILL BE OCCURRING BEFORE OUR NEXT PUBLIC HEARING. HMM. UH, IS THERE A, WE HAVE REQUIREMENTS OF WHEN THE SECOND PUBLIC HEARING HAS GOTTA BE SCHEDULED, BARBARA? YES, WE DO. UM, JO, JOANNE AND I, UH, JOANNE COOK AND I WENT THROUGH THE WHOLE CALENDAR AND BECAUSE OF THE DATE BEING MOVED UP FROM THE FIRST OR SECOND WEEK IN AUGUST TO JULY 21ST, IT PUSHED OUR PUBLIC HEARINGS BACK TO TODAY AND MARCH 10TH. UM, WHICH IS KIND OF UNFORTUNATE AND IS PART OF WHY WE WANT TO DO AS MUCH OUTREACH AS WE CAN AND PROVIDE FORUMS FOR PEOPLE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR AND AGAINST THE REFERENDUM BECAUSE THIS IS NOT, THIS IS AN EDUCATIONAL THING FROM OUR POINT OF VIEW, NOT A DO THIS OR DO THAT. IT, IT REALLY IS INTENDED TO BE EDUCATIONAL. GREAT. THANK YOU. OKAY. WE'RE GONNA OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. I HAVE TWO CARDS. IF THERE'S OTHER PEOPLE WHO WANT TO SPEAK, PLEASE FILL OUT A CARD. AND THE FIRST CARD I HAVE IS TIM PERRY. GOOD EVENING, COUNSELORS. MY NAME IS TIM PERRY AND I LIVE IN SEDONA. THIS COUNCIL'S NAKED GREED FOR A YES VOTE ON HOME RULE IS BLATANTLY ILLEGAL, BUT FORTUNATELY THE HOME RULE PROCESS WILL GIVE US A CHANCE OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS TO EXPLORE ALL THE WAYS THE CITY COULD IN FACT BE RUN VERY CHEAPLY. UH, FOR EXAMPLE, SEDONAS BUDGET IN RECENT YEARS HAS BEEN ON THE ORDER OF A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS, BUT STAFF ADMIT THEY ONLY SPEND ABOUT 70% OF THAT. OKAY, YOU ONLY NEED 70 MILLION, THEN CUT OUT THE $40 MILLION IN CAPITAL PROJECTS THAT ARE NOTHING BUT RESUME PRING PROJECTS FOR STAFF THAT TAKES YOU DOWN TO 30 FIRE THREE QUARTERS OF THE STAFF WHO ARE JUST PATTING THEIR RESUMES. THAT DROPS YOUR SALARIES AND PENSIONS BILL BY ANOTHER $15 MILLION. AND THERE YOU ARE UNDER THE EXPENDITURE LIMIT. OR WE COULD TAKE A LOOK AT IT THROUGH THE LENS OF THIS EXTREMELY MISLEADING AND DECEPTIVE SET OF SLIDES THAT BARBARA HAS PUT UP HERE, IN WHICH SHE SAID THAT THE STATUTORY REQUIREMENTS OF THE CITY WOULD COST ABOUT 25 AND A HALF MILLION A YEAR. NO, THEY WOULDN'T. SIMPLY BECAUSE THE SIMPLY CITY DOES FAR MORE THAN IT IS LEGALLY REQUIRED TO DO. LET US TAKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE $8 MILLION POLICE BRUTALITY BUDGET. WHAT STATE LAW ACTUALLY SAYS IS THAT THE CITY IS REQUIRED TO HAVE A TOWN MARSHAL. YOU COULD GIVE STEPHANIE A COWBOY HAT AND A HUNDRED DOLLARS A WEEK STIPEND, AND WE WOULD MEET THE STATUTORY REQUIREMENT. HOWEVER, REALIZING THERE ARE THOSE IN THE COMMUNITY WHO MIGHT LIKE TO HAVE AN OFFICIAL FORCE OF MURDERS MAINTAINED ON THE PUBLIC DIME, IT'S STILL POSSIBLE TO REDUCE THEIR NUMBERS BY HALF TO SOMETHING CLOSER TO [00:35:01] THE RATIO OF A NORMAL WESTERN TOWN, AND TO REDUCE THEIR SALARIES BY HALF, GIVING THEM SOMETHING LIKE PARITY WITH THEIR US ARMY COUNTERPARTS. THAT TAKES YOUR POLICE BRUTALITY BUDGET DOWN FROM 8 MILLION TO 2 MILLION, SIX FROM 25 AND A HALF IS 19 AND A HALF. DO THE SAME THING OVER WITH STREETS AND FACILITIES. TAKE IT DOWN FROM 9.7 TO 1.78. FROM 19 AND A HALF IS AN 11 POINT HALF MILLION DOLLARS BUDGET, AND YOU STILL HAVE ALMOST $4 MILLION UNDER THE LIMIT FOR THINGS PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT. THIS CITY COULD QUITE EASILY BE RUN ON A $15 MILLION BUDGET, PROVIDED THAT THE PEOPLE'S PRIORITIES WERE FRONT FIRST AND STAFF'S LEGALIZED INSTITUTIONALIZED CORRUPTION CUTOUT. I'D ALSO LIKE TO REMIND YOU GUYS THAT IF HOME RULE DOES GET VOTED DOWN AT THE BALLOT, I WILL PERSONALLY ORGANIZE A RECALL EFFORT AGAINST ANY COUNSELOR WHO PROPOSES CUTTING FUNDING FOR THE LIBRARY, THE COMMUNITY CENTER, THE HUMANE SOCIETY, THE ARTS, OR ANY OTHER COMMUNITY SERVICE. I DO NOT SUPPORT PUBLIC FUNDING FOR THESE PROGRAMS. THE COMMUNITY OVERWHELMINGLY DOES, AND YOU WILL TAKE DIRECTION FROM THE COMMUNITY ON SPENDING PRIORITIES NOT FROM STAFF, THE LIE THAT THE LIBRARY WILL GET ITS FUNDING TAKEN AWAY IF PEOPLE DON'T JUST BUCKLE UNDER AND VOTE YES ON HOME RULE FOR THEIR SALARIES IS OVER. OKAY. ROBERT COSTER, FOLLOWED BY ED KETTLER, AND THAT'S ALL THE CARDS I HAVE. SO IF ANYBODY ELSE WANTS TO SPEAK ON THIS SUBJECT, PLEASE FILL OUT A CARD. THANK YOU, HOLLY. THANK YOU, UH, COUNCIL. MY NAME'S ROBERT KOSER. I'M A RESIDENT HERE IN SEDONA AND I OPPOSE HOME RULE JUST BASED UPON THE CURRENT, UH, COUNCIL MAKEUP AND DECISION MAKING TODAY. AND JUST A COUPLE OF THE PROJECTS THAT HAVE CAUSED, UH, ME CONCERN ARE LIKE THE PARKING GARAGE, THE FORCE ROAD, THE BUS BARN, SOME OF THESE PROJECTS THAT ARE WAY OVER BUDGET, WHAT THE INITIAL BUDGETS WERE. AND I CAN'T SEE GIVING A TOOL SUCH AS HOME RULE TO THE CURRENT CITY COUNCIL TO CONTINUE TO MAKE CAPITAL CONS, CAPITAL CONSIDERATIONS THAT MAY BE FAR OVER THE ORIGINAL BUDGET. YOU NEED TO BE ACCOUNTABLE, TRANSPARENT, AND WHEN YOU DO HAVE A PROJECT THAT'S APPROVED, IT NEEDS TO BE BID, IT NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT IN AT OR ABOUT BUDGET WHEN IT'S TWO OR THREE TIMES OVER BUDGET AND THERE'S THINGS THAT ARE MISSING FROM IT, LIKE, UH, SOMEBODY ELSE MENTIONED EARLIER ABOUT THE SPRINKLERS FOR THE GARAGE, THEN IT'S JUST NOT BEING SPENT APPROPRIATELY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND AGAIN, I, I DO NOT SUPPORT HOME RULE FOR THE CURRENT CITY COUNCIL. I THINK IT'S A TOOL THAT, UH, IS POTENTIALLY MISMANAGED. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ROBERT. ED? HELLO, MY NAME'S ED KETTLER. I'M A RESIDENT OF SEDONA. GOOD EVENING. UH, I'M JUST CURIOUS IS THAT, I'M LOOKING AT THE AGENDA FOR THIS SEGMENT AND IT'S CALLED ALTERNATIVE EXPENDITURE LIMITATION. I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING ABOUT ALTERNATIVE EXPENDITURE LIMITATION. OKAY. YOU HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT IT. YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT SOMETHING THAT COULD BE IT, BUT YOU'VE NOT REALLY DONE, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE AGENDA ITEM SAYS IS SUPPOSED TO BE COVERED. SO IF YOU KNOW BARBARA AND CREW, IF YOU WANNA CONNECT THE DOTS FOR ME, I GREATLY APPRECIATE IT. UH, I JUST DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHAT'S ON THE AGENDA, SO I'D LIKE SOME CLARIFICATION PLEASE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YOU'D LIKE ME TO RESPOND? YEAH, PLEASE. OH, IT'S NOT WORKING. SO THE EXPENDITURE LIMIT AND THE TWO ALTERNATIVES WE DISCUSSED ON SLIDES TWO AND THREE, UM, THAT THE ALTERNATIVES TO THE STATE LIMIT ARE HOME RULE AND A PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT. UM, THE HOME RULE IS THE ALTERNATIVE EXPENDITURE LIMITATION THAT ALLOWS A CITY TO SET ITS OWN SPENDING LIMIT BASED ON THE CURRENT AND PROJECTED REVENUE AND SERVICE DEMANDS. THE PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT IS THE OTHER ALTERNATIVE EXPENDITURE LIMITATION THAT ALLOWS THE CITY TO PERMANENTLY, IF YOU WILL, ADJUST THE BASE AMOUNT, WHICH IS THAT BUDGET THAT WAS ESTABLISHED AS 1980, AND THEN CALCULATE THE NEW LIMIT BASED ON THE STATE FORMULA. SO THOSE ARE THE ALTERNATIVES AS UM, TYLER DISCUSSED IN THE PRESENTATION. THANK YOU, BARBARA. OKAY. ARE THERE [00:40:01] ANY YOU WANNA SPEAK? YES. OKAY. SO YOU CAN COME AND SPEAK. GIVE US YOUR NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE AND THEN PLEASE FILL OUT A CARD AFTERWARDS AND YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES. SURE. I PROBABLY WON'T NEED THREE MINUTES. MY NAME IS RICH GAY. I LIVE IN SEDONA, AND THIS IS VERY FRUSTRATING. YOU JUST READ WHAT'S ON THE SLIDE FOR PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT. IT ACTUALLY SOUNDS VERY INTRIGUING. I SURE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THAT BECAUSE IT'S, THE SOUND OF IT IS THAT IT MIGHT BE A PRETTY VIABLE OPTION TO AVOID THIS DISASTER SCENARIO THAT YOU'VE PAINTED. AND I GOTTA TELL YOU, IT'S THIS SURE SOUNDS LIKE AN EXTORTION PLOT. YOU KNOW, GEE, THAT'S A NICE CITY YOU GOT. THERE WOULD BE A SHAME OF SOMETHING HAPPENED TO IT. PLEASE TELL US MORE ABOUT PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT AND WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE. THANK YOU. A PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT IS JUST A DIFFERENT METHOD TO ALLOW THE BASE AMOUNT TO BE CALCULATED. OUR BASE BUDGET AMOUNT FROM 1980 IS 2.6 MILLION. UM, THEN IT'S ADJUSTED BY OUR POPULATION GROWTH, WHICH IS ABOUT 39% SINCE 1980. UM, AND THE, OR 1978 RATHER. AND THEN THE 19, UH, THEY USE AN INFLATION FACTOR COMING FROM 1980 TO PRESENT THAT IS ABOUT 3.6. SO YOU MULTIPLY THAT 2.6 TIMES THE 1.3 TIMES 3.6, AND YOU GET THE 15.4 APPROXIMATELY. THE PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT IS A REFERENDUM TO TAKE THAT BASE FROM 1980 AND YOU SAY, LET'S INCREASE THAT BASE TO $50 MILLION. I DON'T KNOW, I'M JUST KIND OF PULLING A NUMBER OUT OF NUER. AND WHEN YOU INCREASE THAT BASE, THEN YOU MULTIPLY THAT NEW BASE BY THE 1.3 AND THE 3.6 AND YOU HAVE THE MAXIMUM EXPENDITURE LIMIT IN SOME CASES LIKE IN MESA. AND, UH, WELL MESA'S THE ONE I CAN THINK OF OFFHAND, THEY ADJUSTED THEIR BASE, UH, MAYBE 18 YEARS AGO AND THEN THEY ADJUSTED IT AGAIN IN 2024 AND THEY ANTICIPATE THAT THIS LATEST ADJUSTMENT WILL GIVE THEM 30 YEARS BEFORE THEY NEED TO DO IT AGAIN. UM, IT IS A, IT IS A MORE CHALLENGING, A HOME RULE IS I THINK, EASIER TO UNDERSTAND. AND IT HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN SEDONAS METHODOLOGY. UM, IT ISN'T THAT STAFF WOULDN'T SUPPORT A PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT. I THINK IT'S JUST IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER THAT THIS HAS BEEN THE WAY SEDONA HAS DONE IT AND IF THE COMMUNITY AND THE COUNCIL WANTED TO DO SO, THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO CONSIDER A PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT IN TWO YEARS. WE WOULD HAVE TO WAIT TWO YEARS TO DO A PERMANENT BASE ELECTION, BUT THAT ABSOLUTELY IS AN ALTERNATIVE, UM, FOR THE CITY. THERE'S NO QUESTION THEY ARE BOTH ALTERNATIVES AND STAFF IS HAPPY TO PROVIDE ANY INFORMATION, UH, TO ANYONE THAT WOULD LIKE SOME, THERE IS A, THERE IS A, A FACT SHEET ON THE WEBSITE AND TYLER, IF YOU WANT TO TELL PEOPLE WHERE THAT IS. WHILE YOU'RE DOING THAT, I, I WILL POINT OUT THAT IN 2018, I BELIEVE WE HAD BOTH HOME RULE AND A PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT ON THE BALLOT HOME RULE WAS PASSED AND THE PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT WAS FAILED. MAY I SOME SAY SOMETHING AS WELL, UM, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT DID WE NOT HAVE A, A WORK GROUP OF RESIDENTS WE DID WHO ALSO LOOKED AT WHETHER TO DO ONE OR THE OTHER, THEY RECOMMENDED TO COUNCIL TO CONTINUE TO DO HOME ROLE AND YOU ALL, UM, NOT YOU ALL BECAUSE YOU ALL WEREN'T SITTING IN THESE SEATS, BUT THE COUNCIL AT THE TIME DECIDED TO CONTINUE, UM, WITH HOME RULE. IS THAT RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT. I THINK WE'VE HAD A CITIZEN WORK GROUP SEVERAL TIMES. PETE, YOU WERE ON MY, I WAS ON THAT LAST WORK GROUP. THAT RECOMMENDED HOME RULE CONTINUE AS WAS I, IT'S ONLY OCCURRED ONCE TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THE WORK GROUP. DO YOU WANNA DISCUSS YOUR REASONING? I THINK, UH, HISTORICALLY THERE'S PRECEDENT FOR SEDONA USING HOME RULE, WHICH IS KIND OF THE EASIER THING TO DO. I PERSONALLY ALSO FEEL COMING TO THE VOTERS EVERY FOUR YEARS TO SAY, THIS IS HOW WE'VE BEEN BEHAVING FINANCIALLY AND THIS IS HOW WE BUDGET AND THE VOTERS RATIFYING THAT IS A GOOD THING TO DO IN A DEMOCRACY. SO I SUPPORT HOME RULE, UH, FOR THOSE REASONS AS WELL. UH, A, A PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT ISN'T THE GROUP LOOKED AT THAT. WE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT. UM, UH, AND [00:45:01] NORMALLY WHEN CITIES DO THAT, THEY TAKE THEIR KIND OF CURRENT BUDGET AND THEY PROJECT IT FORWARD 20, 30 YEARS AND THEY PUT A REALLY BIG NUMBER OUT THERE IN FRONT OF THE VOTERS TO SAY, LET'S JUST NOT HAVE THIS ELECTION EVERY FOUR YEARS. HERE'S THE NUMBER THAT WE'LL GROW TO PAST THAT. UM, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S THE BEST WAY TO RUN, YOU KNOW, TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR RESIDENTS ABOUT HOW BUDGETING WORKS IN YOUR CITY. SO THE FOUR YEAR, THE FOUR YEAR QUESTION TO THE VOTERS, I THINK IS THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT. UH, I THINK IT ALSO WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT GIVEN THE CURRENT POLITICAL CLIMATE IN THE WORLD, IN THE UNITED STATES AND THE STATE OF ARIZONA AND SEDONA PERHAPS AS WELL. THAT PASSING A BIG PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT AT THIS POINT. IT'S PROBABLY NOT THE BEST THING FOR US TO TRY AND DO. CHARLOTTE, DO YOU WANNA COMMENT? UM, I AGREE. I I THINK WHEN WE LOOKED AT IT FOUR YEARS AGO, LOOKING AT WHAT A PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT MIGHT BE IN TRYING TO ANTICIPATE SINCE SEDONA IS A GROWING CITY, GROWING SERVICES, CHANGING SERVICES, UM, WHAT THAT NUMBER MIGHT LOOK LIKE. IT COULD BE, IT COULD BE ALARMING. IF YOU THINK OUR CURRENT BUDGET IS ALARMING, SOMETHING THAT WOULD LAST SEVERAL CYCLES, SEVERAL FOUR YEAR CYCLES COULD BE, UH, EVEN MORE ALARMING. SO IT DOES COME DOWN TO SOME EXTENT TO TRUST. UM, AND I THINK WE CONCLUDED THAT HOME RULE WAS EASIER TO EXPLAIN. UM, WE HAVE A TRACK RECORD AS BARBARA POINTED OUT ON SOME SLIDES OF, UM, GOOD GOVERNANCE IN TERMS OF WHAT OUTSIDERS THINK ABOUT US, UM, AUDITS AND SUCH. AND UM, IT WOULD JUST BE TOO, TOO DIFFICULT TO EXPLAIN PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENTS. IF ED WHO'S BEEN ON THE CITIZENS BUDGET GROUP TWO YEARS NOW WAS CON SOMEWHAT CONFUSED ABOUT WHAT, UH, ALTERNATIVE EXPENDITURE LIMIT AKA HOME RULE MEANT, THEN THAT JUST TELLS ME THE AVERAGE PERSON IS GONNA GET CONFUSED ALSO. SO TO SOME EXTENT IT WAS A SIMPLIFICATION, A SIMPLE DECISION TO MAKE. MAY ARE YOU TAKING COMMENTS AT THIS TIME OR JUST QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? UM, OH, I'M SORRY. IT'S OKAY. UM, I THINK ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I'VE HEARD OUT THERE FROM PEOPLE TRYING TO DECIPHER THE HOME RULE ISSUE AND UNDERSTANDING IT IS THAT HOME RULE ALLOWS BUDGETING THAT'S MORE TO THE ACTUAL DOLLAR. YOU SAID THAT, BUT I'M TRYING TO SAY IN MORE SIMPLE TERMS. UM, BECAUSE WE HAVE OUR REVENUES COMING IN AND WE KNOW WHAT THOSE REVENUES ARE, WE HAVE PROJECTIONS BASED ON THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, REVENUE, WE KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO COME IN BASED ON, AND AGAIN, SEDONA HAS NO PROPERTY TAX, SO TAXES ARE NOT AFFECTED BY HOME RULE. THE WE, THE MONEY THAT COMES IN IS FROM RETAIL TAX, UM, AND UM, LODGING TAX, UH, AND SOME OTHER GOVERNMENT FUNDING THAT HAPPENS, BUT IT'S A MORE PRECISE, IF WE KNOW THAT PROJECT THAT THE REVENUES ARE GOING TO BE AROUND A HUNDRED MILLION, WE KNOW THAT THAT'S WHAT THE BUDGETING COULD GO IN CAP TO. IF YOU DON'T HAVE HOME RULE AND YOU'RE TRYING TO PROJECT OUT, AS YOU SAID, FOR MANY CYCLES, IT'S NOT A REFLECTION OF WHEN THE ACTUAL BUDGET WOULD BE BECAUSE THE CAP NUMBER WOULD PROBABLY BE HA SOMETHING LIKE ASTRONOMICAL, LIKE $200 MILLION BECAUSE IT'S TRYING TO TAKE IN THE POTENTIAL GROWTH, WHICH WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS OVER TIME. SO I THINK THAT HOME RULE IS THE MOST HONEST, UM, THAT I'VE HEARD FROM THE THREE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT WE CAN DO THIS, UH, BECAUSE IT'S THE BEST, MOST REPRESENT, MOST REPRESENTATIVE PICTURE OF OUR ACTUAL BUDGET AND OUR ACTUAL SPENDING. SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT GIVES ME MORE CONFIDENCE IN, IN GOING WITH HOME RULE BECAUSE I DO FEEL THAT IT GIVES A MUCH BETTER PICTURE TO THE PUBLIC OF WHAT THE ACTUAL BUDGET IS. THANK YOU KATHY, DEREK. SO HOWEVER WE ARRIVE AT THESE NUMBERS, IF IT'S PBA VERSUS HOME RULE, DOES ONE OF THEM PUT ANY ADDITIONAL CONSTRAINTS ON COUNCIL'S ACTIONS OR IS IT STILL JUST ONCE THE NUMBERS REACHED, WE SET A BUDGET BASED ON OUR PROJECTED REVENUES AND THEN WE GO FROM THERE? DOES IT, I THINK THERE'S A PERCEPTION IN THE PUBLIC THAT PVA GIVES THE RESIDENTS AN INDIVIDUAL VOTE. IS THAT THE CASE? NO, NO. IN, UM, IN BOTH CASES, THE, THE LI WELL, LET ME JUST EXPLAIN. WITH HOME RULE, THE LIMIT IS SET LITERALLY ANNUALLY BY THE COUNCIL. WHEN YOU SET THE TENTATIVE BUDGET AND THE TENTATIVE BUDGET SETS THE LIMIT FOR THE EXPENDITURES FOR THE YEAR. AND WHEN YOU ADOPT THAT TENTATIVE BUDGET IN MAY, YOU CAN DIRECT STAFF TO MAKE CHANGES TO THE BUDGET BEFORE THE FINAL BUDGET. BUT NO CHANGES BEYOND THAT [00:50:01] CAN INCREASE THE BUDGET, THEY CAN ONLY DECREASE IT. SO ANNUALLY THAT EXPENDITURE LIMIT IS BASICALLY ADOPTED BY COUNCIL. AND THAT'S WHAT HOME RULE LITERALLY MEANS IS THAT WE'RE RULING THAT LIMIT AT HOME, THE PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT, YOU STILL SET YOUR ANNUAL, YOU KNOW, BUDGET AND YOU STILL CAN'T INCREASE BEYOND THE TENTATIVE, BUT YOUR LIMIT IS ULTIMATELY MUCH HIGHER. SO YOU HAVE THIS, IT ESSENTIALLY ALLOWS YOU NOT TO GO BACK TO THE VOTERS EVERY FOUR YEARS. I THINK IF WE'RE GONNA BREAK IT DOWN TO THE TWO POSSIBILITIES, ONE GOES TO THE VOTERS EVERY TWO YEARS. ONE IS GENERALLY USED SO THAT YOU HAVE THAT OPEN SPACE FOR COUNCIL TO SET THE BUDGET WITHOUT HAVING TO GO BACK TO THE VOTERS FOR, YOU KNOW, 10, 15, 20, 30 YEARS. SO I THINK THAT'S REALLY THE ESSENTIAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO. AND THAT'S, I THINK YOU SAID EVERY TWO YEARS HOME RULES GOES BACK TO THE VOTERS EVERY FOUR YEARS. FOUR YEARS, FOUR I APOLOGIZE, EVERY FOUR YEARS COMPARED TO CONTROL OF COUNCIL, WHICH GOES TO THE VOTERS EVERY TWO YEARS. RIGHT? SO IF YOU'RE REALLY CONCERNED WITH THE WAY THAT THE EXISTING COUNCIL IS SPENDING MONEY, PICK A DIFFERENT COUNCIL. DON'T CUT OFF YOUR NOSE, SPITE YOUR FACE. UH, THAT'S KIND OF THE WAY I FEEL ABOUT IT. BUT COULD I ASK ONE QUESTION, CHARLOTTE, DO YOU HAVE A, UH, BREAKDOWN OF THE NUMBER OF CITIES OR TOWNS THAT USE, UM, HOME RULE VERSUS THE PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT? I KNOW YOU SAID 90% USE ONE OR THE OTHER AS OPPOSED TO THE STATE IMPOSED LIMIT, BUT UH, OUR UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IT BREAKS DOWN ALONG 50 50 LINES. COULD YOU REPEAT THAT? OUR UNDERSTANDING AT THIS TIME IS THAT IT BREAKS DOWN ALONG 50 50 LINES. AND DO SMALLER MUNICIPALITIES TEND TO GO ONE WAY OR THE OTHER? DO MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT FASTER GROWING, UH, CITIES OR TOWNS TEND TOWARDS HOME RULE WHEN YOU'VE SORT OF SETTLED DOWN, UM, REACHED YOUR GROWTH LIMIT, WHATEVER, THEN MAYBE GO TO A PERMANENT BASE ADJUSTMENT. IS THAT WHAT YOU'VE SEEN ON THE LISTS OR, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S INTERESTING WHEN I DID SOME RESEARCH INTO DIFFERENT CITIES THAT HAD PASSED EITHER A PBA OR A HOME RULE IN LIKE IN 2024, UM, COURT SITE DID A PBA, SO DID, UM, CAMP VERDE, MESA, YOU KNOW, SO YOU'VE GOT REALLY BIG CITIES AND REALLY SMALL CITIES. I THINK IT'S, IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE INDIVIDUAL COMMUNITY AND IT MAY HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE STABILITY OF THE BUDGET. UM, BUT I COULDN'T REALLY TELL YOU FOR SURE WHAT THE TRENDS ARE. I CAN DEFINITELY LOOK INTO IT 'CAUSE I'M HAPPY TO DO ANALYSIS. I THINK IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW. YEAH, I'M, I AM HAPPY TO LOOK INTO THAT AND SEE WHO'S DOING WHAT AND SEE IF THERE'S ANY CORRELATION BETWEEN THEM. AND ALSO FOR THE LARGER CITIES LIKE MESA, I DON'T RECALL THE NUMBER, BUT IT WAS PRETTY BIG. THEIR PBA IT WAS LIKE HUGE. HUGE. IT WAS HUGE. LIKE I THINK IT SET THEIR LIMIT SOMEWHERE IN THE TENS OF BILLIONS. I RECALL THE B NUMBER. YEAH, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY BS THERE WERE. IT WAS, IT WAS MORE THAN ONE B. YEAH. THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM COUNSEL? OKAY. I DON'T THINK THAT WE HAVE ANY, WE'RE NOT TAKING ANY VOTES OR ANYTHING RIGHT NOW. THIS IS JUST A PUBLIC HEARING. IS THAT RIGHT, ANNETTE? THANK YOU MAYOR FOR THE QUESTION. I WAS JUST DOUBLE CHECKING WITH THE CITY CLERK. YES, WE DO NEED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, AND THEN, UM, YOU HOLD A SECOND ONE AT THE NEXT MEETING. MARCH 10TH AT 3:30 PM IS THE SECOND PUBLIC HEARING? YES. OKAY. THANK YOU. LET'S MOVE [9.c. AB 3320 Discussion/possible action for approval of a Resolution authorizing the execution of an Intergovernmental Agreement (IGA) between the City of Sedona and the Arizona Department of Transportation (ADOT) regarding the construction of Brewer Road Shared Use Path (SIM11P) in the amount of $2,787,286.00.] ON TO THE NEXT ITEM, WHICH IS AB 33 20 DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION FOR APPROVAL OF A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE EXECUTION OF AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF SEDONA AND THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION REGARDING THE CONSTRUCTION OF BREWER ROAD SHARED USE PATH SIM 11 P IN THE AMOUNT OF $2,787,286. [00:55:04] SANDY, GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. SANDY PHILLIPS, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS AND ASSISTANT CITY ENGINEER. WE'RE VERY PROUD TO BRING THIS IGA TO COUNCIL THIS EVENING. SUPER EXCITED FOR OUR TEAM THAT APPLIED FOR THIS, UH, GRANT. AND, UM, READY TO MOVE AHEAD. THIS IS A GREAT PICTURE THAT SHOWS YOU THE DETAIL ON THIS PROJECT. BREWER ROAD IS, UH, NARROW. LOOK AT THAT. THERE IS NO PLACE TO WALK ON THAT SHOULDER AND IT, IT DROPS OFF TO DITCHES. AND THIS PICTURE HERE SHOWS, UH, RANGER STATION PARK. IT'S A VERY HIGHLY PEDESTRIAN TRAFFICKED CORRIDOR THAT LEADS UP TO THE BREWER ROAD TRAILHEAD. SO WE'RE EXCITED TO BRING THIS PROJECT TO YOU. SO, UM, AGAIN, THIS IS A, UH, GRANT. UM, IT'S NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT. THE CITY'S MATCH IS A 5.7% GRANT AND UM, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE REQUESTED FUNDS FOR FY 27 TO, UH, PROVIDE THOSE FUNDS. WE'VE DONE SIGNIFICANT OUTREACH ALONG THIS CORRIDOR AND GOTTEN, UM, SUPPORT FROM THE COMMUNITY. THERE'S NO EASEMENTS REQUIRED FOR THIS. THE ONLY EASEMENTS WE'RE GONNA NEED ARE TEMPORARY CONSTRUCTION EASEMENTS TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S A GOOD TRANSITION FROM THE EXISTING DRIVEWAYS TO THE SHARED USE PATH. AND THIS HAS PART OF THE GO PLAN. SO THIS HAS BEEN A PART OF OUR PLAN. SO THIS SHOWS THE PATH IS APPROXIMATELY 1700 LINEAR FEET. IT'S GONNA BE LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE ROADWAY. THIS SHOWS THE TRAILHEAD. IT'S A WELL ESTABLISHED TRAILHEAD. SO WE'RE REAL EXCITED ABOUT MAKING THAT CONNECTION WITH THE PARK AND IMPROVING SAFETY FOR THE PEDESTRIANS. SO THIS IS, UH, ANTICIPATED SCHEDULE IF APPROVED THIS EVENING, TO MOVE AHEAD WITH THE INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT. UM, THAT'LL GET SIGNED FEBRUARY. THE ENGINEERING IS APPROXIMATELY 90% COMPLETE. WE ANTICIPATE THAT BEING COMPLETED IN SPRING. THE AUTHORIZATION FROM FHWA SHOULD OCCUR NEAR APRIL. WE'RE MOVING AHEAD ON THAT AND, UH, ANTICIPATE CONSTRUCTION IN FALL. SO SUPER EXCITED TO GET THIS TO MOVE AHEAD. AGAIN, CITY MATCHES 5.7% OR 158,875 AND THE STATE, THIS IS A TRANSPORTATION ALTERNATIVE PROGRAM, UH, GRANT IN THE AMOUNT OF TWO THOUSAND SIX HUNDRED TWENTY EIGHT THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED ELEVEN. SO THAT IS ALL I HAVE. IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS, CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE, UH, PHOTO OF THE, OF THE ACTUAL BREWER ROAD OF THAT ONE OR THE ONE BEFORE? UH, THAT'S PRETTY NARROW ROAD. YEAH. SO WHEN WE BUILD THE SHARED USE PATH, OR CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW WE'RE GOING TO MAINTAIN THE CURRENT WIDTH? YEAH, SO WE DO HAVE RIGHT OF WAY, UM, THE ROAD YOU CAN SEE PART OF THE COST, UM, EVEN THOUGH THIS IS 1700 LINEAR FEET AND 2.7 IS, IS PRETTY EXPENSIVE FOR THAT SHORT OF A RUN, BUT IT'S BECAUSE OF RETAINING WALLS THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO PUT IN BECAUSE, UM, TO STAY WITHIN OUR RIGHT OF WAY. AND WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE NOT DECREASING THE SIZE OF THE LANE, WE'RE TAKING THAT EDGE, MAKING IT A CLEAN EDGE, DOING A, UM, A VERTICAL CURB AND THEN DOING THE EIGHT TO 10 FOOT SHARED USE PATH OUTSIDE OF THAT. SO WE'RE NOT DECREASING THE LANE WIDTH BELOW 11 FEET. AND LOOKING AT THIS PICTURE, THE RIGHT SIDE OR THE LEFT SIDE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. SO THE PATH IS GONNA BE ON THE RIGHT SIDE. THANK YOU MAYOR. AND SANDY, ASK ONE OF MY FAVORITE QUESTIONS ABOUT, YOU JUST MENTIONED SQUARE CURB AND JUST THINKING ABOUT THE CONVERSATION WE'VE HAD OVER TIME ABOUT GIVING BIKES AN AN EASIER WAY TO GET OFF OF THAT TO AVOID PED CONFLICTS. THERE ARE SOME LONGER DISTANCES BETWEEN SOME OF THE DRIVEWAYS, I THINK HERE. MM-HMM . WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHAT WE'LL DO IN THAT REGARD? WE DID TAKE A LOOK AT IT. SO WE ARE GONNA DO THE PAVERS FOR THE DRIVEWAYS AND THE STREET INTERSECTIONS. SO THERE'S 10. OKAY. SO, UH, EVERY 170 FEET ISH. UM, BUT WE WILL LOOK AT IF THERE'S A PLACE WHERE THERE IS A, A BIG GAP. UM, I RECENTLY WROTE ON THUNDER MOUNTAIN AND IT IS GOOD TO BE ABLE TO GET OFF AND ON WHEN YOU, UM, COME UP ON SOMEBODY JUST TO MAKE SURE, GIVE SPACE. SO WE WILL TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. GREAT, THANK YOU. AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION I WANTED [01:00:01] TO ASK REALLY WAS ASKED, AND I KNOW YOU'VE HAD SOME CONVERSATION WITH A FORMER COUNCIL MEMBER ABOUT MATERIAL TYPES ON THE SHARED USE PATH AND CARBON. YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A SESSION TOMORROW ON THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE CARBON CONTRIBUTION TO THAT. SO COULD YOU JUST GIVE US YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT AS WELL? YEAH, SO RIGHT NOW THIS PATHWAY WE ARE PLANNING ON DOING THE STABILIZED DECOMPOSED GRANITE, WHICH IS THE RED, UH, GRAVEL THAT'S GLUED TOGETHER THAT WE'VE BEEN DOING ON DRY CREEK. UM, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'VE GOTTEN SOME REALLY GOOD FEEDBACK FROM, UM, JUST BECAUSE THE COLOR BLENDS IN AND, UM, EVERYONE FEELS THAT IT'S SOFTER ON THEIR JOINTS. UM, BUT WHAT IS, UH, WITH EVERYTHING THERE'S PROS AND CONS. IT, THERE'S MORE MAINTENANCE TO IT. WE NEED TO GET OUT THERE AND HIT IT WITH SOME MORE GLUE. IT'S STARTING TO GET LOOSE IN SOME AREAS WHERE, UM, WE'VE HAD SOME VEHICLES THAT HAVE DONE SOME CRAZY STUNTS ON IT. UH, SO WE'RE, WE CONTINUE TO LOOK AT ALTERNATIVES OF WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST. AND THIS IS GONNA BE, UH, THIS ROAD IS A LITTLE BIT STEEPER THAN DRY CREEK, SO THIS IS A TEST, BUT WE WANTED TO TRY TO DO SOME, SOMETHING THAT WAS MORE NATURAL IN THIS AREA BECAUSE OF THE LARGER LOTS. RIGHT. THANK YOU. SANDY, WHAT KIND OF DISRUPTIONS TO TRAFFIC DO YOU EXPECT DURING CONSTRUCTION? YEAH, BECAUSE IT IS SO NARROW, BUT UM, THIS PROJECT IS GONNA BE MANAGED BY ADOT AND WE'LL DO THE PUBLIC OUTREACH AND CONTINUE TO DO SIGNAGE AND, UH, NOTIFY EVERYONE. UM, WITH TYLER'S HELP WITH SOCIAL MEDIA. SO ARE LANE IS LANE GONNA HAVE TO BE CLOSED FOR, BUT WE'LL KEEP ONE LANE OPEN THE ENTIRE TIME. OKAY. AND THEN A FLAGMAN OUT THERE TO TELL PEOPLE? YES, FOR SURE. AND THEN, UM, I ANTICIPATE BEING ABLE TO OPEN BOTH LANES AT NIGHT. OKAY. THANK YOU. NO CROSS. NO, ALL WE'RE DOING IS EXTENDING THE ENDS OF THE STORM DRAIN. THERE'S NO CROSS DURING, SO WE'RE GONNA EXPECT OH, ANY CLOSURES OR NIGHT WORK. IT'LL JUST BE FLAGGING OPERATIONS. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? WHAT'S THE ANTICIPATED LENGTH OF CONSTRUCTION? THE TIME DURATION OF CONSTRUCTION? THANKS. A ADOT IS GONNA MANAGE IT. OKAY. SO, UM, UM, WHAT DO THEY THINK IT'S GONNA BE? RIGHT NOW WE'RE, I THINK WE'RE AT FOUR MONTHS. OKAY. SO, BUT RETAINING WALLS IS, IT'S GONNA BE A LITTLE DIFFICULT TO SEE WHAT WE RUN INTO. WE'VE DONE A LOT OF COORDINATION WITH UTILITIES AND UM, BUT IT'S STILL, WE'RE ALWAYS IN TIGHT CORRIDORS IN THE, IN THE COLD WINTER MONTHS STARTING IN THE FALL IT WILL BE HAVE TO DO A LOT MORE PREVENTION AND LIKE FOR THE RETAINING WALLS, POURING CONCRETE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE BLANKETS. IT TAKES LONGER. SO IT MIGHT BE FIVE MONTHS WITH ADOT MANAGING THIS PROJECT. IS THERE GOING TO BE A LOCAL CITY LIAISON THOUGH FOR ANY COMPLAINTS THAT COME FROM RESIDENTS AND USERS OF THE STREET? ABSOLUTELY. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE DOING ON SHELBY AS WELL. AND UM, OUR OTHER ADOT PARTNER PROJECTS. THANK YOU. WELL, CONGRATULATIONS ON GETTING THE, THE MONEY. THAT'S EXCELLENT. 95%. THAT'S PHENOMENAL. YEAH. THANK YOU. WHAT IS, WHAT IS THE LENGTH OF THE PROJECT? YEAH. NOT IN TERMS OF TIME BUT IN THE ROADWAY. LITTLE OVER 1700. SO 1,700. SO IS THERE A PLAN TO EXTEND THAT IN THE FUTURE OR IS THAT THE EXTENT OF WHAT WE HAVE IN THE GO PLAN RIGHT NOW? THAT'S IT. IT WAS TO CONNECT THE AIRPORT TRAIL, RIGHT? THE BREWER ROAD TRAIL HEAD, BREWER ROAD TRAIL PARK. THE AIRPORT PARK, YEAH. AND THEN TO THE PARK. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I DON'T HAVE ANY CARDS. I DO HAVE CARDS. AND WE'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC COMMENTS AT KETTLER. THAT'S THE ONLY CARD I HAVE. OH, GOOD EVENING AGAIN, I'M ED KETTLER. I STILL LIVE IN SEDONA. I LIVE OFF BREWER ROAD. SO THIS PROJECT IS NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART. I'D LIKE TO CONGRATULATE SANDY AND HER TEAM FOR THE GREAT WORK YOU'VE DONE. REACHING OUT TO THE STAKEHOLDERS ON THIS PROJECT AND GETTING THE CITIZENS ENGAGED. 'CAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE LIVE UP THAT PATH. UM, WE HAVE A LOT MORE PEDESTRIANS, UH, AND BICYCLISTS ON BREWER ROAD THAN WE'VE HAD, UH, IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE FULL TIME. BUT I OWNED A HOME SINCE 2011 AND I'M GLAD TO SEE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THE PEDESTRIAN AND BICYCLIST SAFETY ON HERE. THERE'S A LOT OF BLIND CURVES [01:05:01] AND HILLS AND IT'S CAN BE TREACHEROUS. YOU KNOW, I'M UP AND DOWN THAT ROAD A COUPLE TIMES A DAY. UM, THE ANSWER, ONE OF MY QUESTIONS, FOUR TO FIVE MONTHS. THANK YOU. UH, WILL THE UTILITY MOVEMENT AND DRAINAGE BE INCLUDED IN THE COST AND HOW ARE WE GOING TO ADDRESS THE DRIVEWAYS, UH, THAT COME ACROSS THERE THROUGH THE CURRENT RIGHT OF WAY? UH, KIND OF A BIGGER PROBLEM FOR ME IS I'D LIKE TO UNDERSTAND HOW YOU'RE GONNA CONSOLIDATE THE BREWER, SUP, THE PORTAL ROAD EXTENSION, THE RANGER ROAD EXTENSION, THE RANGER BREWER INTERSECTION, THE FOREST ROUNDABOUT, AND RANGER 1 79 INTERSECTION PROJECTS. SO WE DON'T GET COMPLETELY OVERWHELMED WITH CON CONTINUOUS CONSTRUCTION. YOU KNOW, THERE IS THE DANGER WITH ALL THOSE IS WE FINISH ONE, WE DO THE NEXT FINISH ONE, DO THE NEXT. WE REALLY CAN'T STAND THAT WE BREWERS ARE ONLY WAY IN AND OUT. SO PLEASE LOOK IN TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO CONSOLIDATE THESE PROJECTS SO WE HAVE THE LEAST AMOUNT OF IMPACT WHILE WE'RE DOING THESE, UH, AM WORKING WITH ANDY DICKEY ON THE RANGER BREWER INTERSECTION DESIGN, UH, AND LOOK FORWARD TO EXTENDED TO LOOK AT THE HOLISTIC THING FOR THAT AREA SO THAT WE HAVE AN INTEGRATED PLAN. UH, WE ARE LOOKING FOR A WIN-WIN, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT, UM, INTERRUPTING THE BREWER ROAD PEOPLE WHILE WE'RE DOING THIS ONLY TO THE AMOUNT REQUIRED, BUT ALSO WE WANT TO FACILITATE THE SEDONA IN MOTION. SO PLEASE LOOK AT HOW TO DO THIS IN AN INTEGRATIVE MANNER SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE CONTI, WHAT WAS THE TERM YOU USED, CHARLOTTE? THE, UH, CONSTRUCTION FATIGUE, I BELIEVE, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO, YOU KNOW, PLEASE TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION AND LOOK TO HAVE AN INTEGRATED PLAN TO DO THIS AND COMMUNICATE IT TO THE RURAL ROAD CONSTITUENTS. THANK YOU. CAN YOU RESPOND TO THE QUESTION ABOUT THE UTILITIES? YEAH. SO, AND ALSO ON THE DRIVE, THANK YOU, ED, AND ALSO ON THE DRIVEWAYS. SO WHAT WE FOUND, UM, THE BEST THING TO DO ON THE DRIVEWAYS, AS PAVERS, AND SO THAT DOES NOT, WE'RE NOT WAITING FOR CURE TIME, AND THAT'S WORKED ON ALL OF OUR PROJECTS SO FAR. SO THAT MINIMIZES THE IMPACT TO THE RESIDENTS, AND WE ALSO DO THAT ACROSS SOME OF THE STREETS. UM, OR WE MAKE SURE THERE'S ONE LANE OPEN SO TRAFFIC CAN BE ROOTED AROUND IT. I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE UTILITY QUESTION WE HAVE COORDINATED WITH THE UTILITIES AND WE DON'T WHAT WE'VE, UH, RUN INTO DURING OUR CONSTRUCTION. IF SOMETHING IS HIT AND THERE'S A UTILITY THAT GOES OUT, WE COORDINATE REAL CLOSE WITH, UH, ARIZONA WATER, OUR SEWER TEAM, AND EVERYONE IN THE GAS. SO, UM, IT'S THE BEST WE CAN DO THINGS. WHAT WE'RE FINDING IN OUR CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS IS, UM, THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS THREE FOOT DEEP. THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS WHERE WE THINK THEY SHOULD BE. SO THE BEST, UM, WAY TO, UH, ADJUST TO THAT AND RESOLVE THAT IS TO WORK CLOSELY, AND THAT'S WHAT WE WORK CLOSELY WITH ALL UTILITIES. YOU WANNA CLARIFY YOUR QUESTION? YEAH, THE QUESTION. COME TO THE MIC AND PLEASE. BECAUSE THIS IS, IT DOESN'T APPEAR. PEOPLE ARE, YOU KNOW, IT'S BEING RECORDED. OKAY. UM, THE QUESTION RELATED TO, THERE'S A LOT OF POWER LINES THAT COME DOWN. THERE'S PEOPLE IN RECENT YEARS, SOME NEW HOUSES. ARE THEY INSIDE OR OUTSIDE OF YOUR RIGHT OF WAY? AND ARE YOU GONNA HAVE TO RELOCATE POWER LINES AND OTHER THINGS THAT COULD IMPACT EVERYBODY ON BREWER ROAD WHEN YOU'RE DOING THESE THINGS? THAT'S KIND OF THE, AND THEN THERE'S RIGHT, THE DRAINAGE DITCH BESIDE, IS THAT GONNA BE CULVERTED OR WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO WITH THAT? SO, GREAT. YEAH, SO WE ARE WORKING REALLY CLOSELY WITH A PS. THERE ARE A COUPLE OF POLES THAT ARE GONNA HAVE TO BE PUSHED BACK SO THAT WE CAN GET OUR EIGHT TO 10 FOOT WIDTH, BUT IT'LL STILL BE WITHIN THE RIGHT OF WAY. AND THEN STORM DRAIN THERE, DITCH WILL BE ACCOMMODATED AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO KEEP THE HISTORIC PATH. UM, BUT ALL WE'RE DOING IS EXTENDING SOME OF THE CROSS CULVERTS THAT CROSS UNDERNEATH THE ROADWAY. WE'RE ACCOMMODATING THE DITCH BEHIND THE SHARED USE PATH. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM COUNSEL? I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION. I CAN MAKE A MOTION. THANK YOU. KATHY. I MOVE TO APPROVE RESOLUTION NUMBER 2026 DASH FIVE FIVE AUTHORIZING THE EXECUTION OF AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF SEDONA AND THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE BREWER ROAD SHARED USE PATH WITH A TOTAL PROJECT COST OF $2,787,286. SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. OKAY. NO ONE'S OPPOSED. WE'RE GOOD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. [01:10:01] OKAY. THE NEXT ITEM [9.d. AB 3274 Discussion/possible action regarding proceeding with discussion of a letter of intent to redevelop the cultural park amphitheater and proceeding with an opinion poll conducted by a professional survey firm concerning the cultural park amphitheater, including City Council review of the proposed polling questions.] IS AB 32 74 POSS DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING PROCEEDING WITH DISCUSSION OF A LETTER OF INTENT TO REDEVELOP THE CULTURAL PARK AMPHITHEATER AND PROCEEDING WITH AN OPINION POLL CONDUCTED BY A PROFESSIONAL SURVEY FIRM CONCERNING THE CULTURAL PARK AMPHITHEATER, INCLUDING CITY COUNCIL REVIEW OF THE PROPOSED POLLING QUESTIONS. WELL, THANK YOU MAYOR AND THANK YOU COUNCIL. UM, YOU'LL RECALL THAT WHEN I LAST PRESENTED ON THIS MEETING THAT A COUPLE OF THINGS WERE REQUESTED THAT, UH, UM, A CONTRACT WAS EXECUTED WITH THE, UH, FIRM THAT WAS SELECTED, AND THAT HAS BEEN SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED, AND THAT DRAFT QUESTIONS ARE COMPOSED BASED ON THE FEEDBACK AND DIRECTION THAT THE CITY COUNCIL PROVIDED. UM, I HAVE, UH, SITTING IN VIA VIDEO ON THIS MEETING, PAUL BEN WITH ARIZONA HIGH GROUND, WHO IS THE VENDOR. UM, HE IS HERE ABLE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS OR, UH, FEEDBACK THAT YOU MIGHT PROVIDE. SO THE QUESTIONS WERE INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET AND, UM, UH, WE HAVE ALSO, UH, RECEIVED YOUR FEEDBACK AND ARE MINDFUL OF THAT GOING FORWARD. SO IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, WE'LL JUST, I THINK TYLER, WE WOULD LIKE, UH, TO HEAR FROM OUR CONSULTANT INCORPORATING THE COMMENTS THAT COUNSEL HAS PROVIDED TO SEE HOW WE WOULD CHANGE THE QUESTIONS RATHER THAN GOING THROUGH THEM AGAIN. OKAY. SO PAUL, IF, UH, IF YOU CAN HEAR US IN YOUR, YOUR ONLINE, UM, GO AHEAD AND SPEAK TO THE MAYOR'S COMMENTS THERE. SURE. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS PAUL BEN. I'M THE SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF RESEARCH AND STRATEGY AT HIGH GROUND PUBLIC AFFAIRS, UH, IN PHOENIX, ARIZONA. WE'RE FIVE TIMES BEST POLLSTER IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA ACCORDING TO CAPITAL TIMES, AND WE DO A LOT OF STATEWIDE, REGIONAL, AND LOCAL SURVEY RESEARCH. OUR GOAL IS ALWAYS TO ELIMINATE BIAS. YOU, YOU HIRE FOLKS LIKE US TO GIVE YOU A PROFESSIONAL SURVEY TO ENSURE THAT THE QUESTIONS YOU ASK ARE ACCURATE, UH, RELIABLE, AND THAT WE'RE GIVING YOU RESULTS THAT YOU CAN FIND ACTIONABLE AND AS YOU MOVE FORWARD. SO I DID RECEIVE SOME OF THE FEEDBACK TODAY ON THE THREE QUESTION SURVEY, AND I'M HAPPY TO COMMENT A LITTLE BIT ON, ON THE QUESTIONS I'VE RECEIVED SO FAR AND SOME OF THE SUGGESTIONS, UH, THAT WE WOULD MAKE, UH, IN, IN, IN ADJUSTING SOME OF THE, UM, THE QUESTIONS ITSELF. TYLER, DO YOU JUST WANT ME TO GO THROUGH EACH INDIVIDUAL QUESTION OR HOW DO YOU WANT ME TO GO ABOUT THAT? UM, IF YOU WANNA KEEP IT GENERAL FOR THE SAKE OF TIME, GREAT. BUT, UM, IF, IF THE CITY COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO, UH, TO GO THROUGH EACH ONE INDIVIDUALLY? YES. OKAY, LET'S DO THAT THEN PAUL. SURE. SO, UH, INTRODUCTION WISE, WE, WE RECOMMEND KEEPING THE INTRODUCTION, UH, AS, AS FACTUAL AS POSSIBLE, JUST GIVING THAT BACKGROUND INFORMATION THAT REFLECTS THE OTHER PUBLICLY AVAILABLE AVAILABLE INFORMATION, UH, ON, YOU KNOW, ALL THE PUBLIC DOCUMENTS, WHETHER IT COMES TO THE, THE BAYWAY MASTER PLAN OR ANY OF THE OTHER COMMUNICATIONS. MAKE SURE IT'S REFLECTS THE SAME LANGUAGE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO USE IN OTHER PLACES SO THAT IT IS THE SAME DATA AVAILABLE FOR EVERY DEPART. UH, WHEN IT COMES TO QUESTION ONE ITSELF THAT WE GOT THE FEEDBACK ABOUT ELIMINATING THE LINK TO THE WEBSITE, UH, FOR PLAN SEDONA.COM, WE CERTAINLY CAN DELETE THAT AND OR MOVE THAT TO THE END OF THE SURVEY AS REQUESTED. UH, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I HAD WAS, THAT WAS ASKED IS CAN WE DO SOMETHING ABOUT AWARENESS OR GENERALLY AWARE OR NOT AWARE VERSUS SUPPORT? I THINK YOU WOULD BE BETTER SERVED BY A QUESTION ABOUT SUPPORT, JUST GETTING A GENERAL UNDERSTANDING OF KNOWING WHAT THEY KNOW RIGHT NOW, DO THEY SUPPORT OR OPPOSE THE PROPOSAL? UH, I THINK THAT'S SORT OF YOUR BEST PLAN OF ATTACK. IT GIVES YOU AN UNDERSTANDING OF NOT ONLY WHERE YOUR SUPPORT IS AND GIVE YOU A GOOD NUMBER ON THAT. THAT WAS ONE OF THE REQUESTS THAT WAS MADE OF US, BUT ALSO WHERE THE OPPOSITION COMES FROM. THAT ALSO ALLOWS US TO TAKE CROSS TABULATION OF, OF, OF THE DATA AND LOOK SORT OF WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO THE SUPPORTERS OR WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST ISSUES THAT THE OPPONENTS HAVE, UH, WITH THE PROPOSAL OR WITH THE GENERAL PLAN ITSELF. ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? YES, YES. I THINK THERE WAS ALSO A COMMENT MADE, UM, ABOUT USING THE TERM MIXED USE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF CONTEXT. IT'S A ZONING TERM THAT WE UNDERSTAND, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF CONTEXT FOR THE PERSON WHO MIGHT BE FILLING OUT THE SURVEY. SO THE, AS A QUESTION READS, IT WOULD SAY PRESENTED IN SEPTEMBER 25, SHOWING HOUSING MIXED USE AND A COMMUNITY AREA THAT CONTAINS AN EVENT SPACE FOR PUBLIC GATHERINGS AND PERFORMANCES. MY CONCERN WAS THAT MIXED HOUSING IS PRETTY SELF-EXPLANATORY. COMMUNITY AREA FOR EVENT SPACE, PRETTY SELF-EXPLANATORY, BUT THAT THE TERM MIXED USE WAS NOT SELF-EXPLANATORY. SO IS THERE SOMETHING WE CAN DO IN THAT WE, WE CAN CERTAINLY SWAP IT OUT FOR SOMETHING LIKE COMMERCIAL. UH, THE QUESTION I HAD WAS, WHAT IS INVOLVED IN THE MIXED USE DESCRIPTION RIGHT NOW? IS IT JUST, UH, YOU KNOW, RESTAURANTS, RETAIL, COMMERCIAL, OR IS THERE ANOTHER PORTION TO IT? WE CAN BE MORE ACCURATE WITH THE DEFINITION, HOWEVER YOU WOULD LIKE. IT JUST NEEDS TO BE REFLECTIVE OF, I WOULDN'T ADD ADDITIONAL EXPOSITORY ON MIXED USE BEYOND [01:15:01] WHAT IS LIKELY GOING TO BE IN THE PLAN BECAUSE I WOULDN'T WANT TO CREATE CONFUSION THE OTHER WAY. I AGREE. YEAH, I AGREE. I THINK THE IDEA IS JUST FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT MIXED USE ENTAILS, WHAT WOULD BE ALLOWABLE UNDER THAT. 'CAUSE I SAID IT'S A ZONING TERM, SO EVEN IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, JUST SOMETHING THAT EXPLAINS THE USE IS ALLOWED UNDER THAT. CARRIE, CAN YOU TOUCH ON THAT? OH, WOW. WHAT DID I DO? OH, WHAT'S GOING ON? OKAY, SORRY. HERE WE GO. I MOVED SOMETHING AND ELECTRONICS. UM, SO TYPICALLY WHEN WE USE THE TERM MIXED USE, IT, IT'S A COMBINATION OF COMMERCIAL AND HOUSING, UM, IN OUR ZONING CODE. UM, COMMERCIAL GENERALLY ENTAILS OFFICE RETAIL, ALL OF THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED IN A COMMERCIAL ZONE. SO A MIXED USE IS REALLY WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT TWO DIFFERENT ZONES. SO HAVING SOMETHING THAT SAYS HOUSING AND MIXED USE, THAT MIGHT, THERE MIGHT BE SOME CONFUSION THERE BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK HOUSING AND COMMERCIAL IS MIXED USE. AND SO THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO MIGHT NOT BE REGULARLY EXPLO, UM, EVIDENT IF YOU HAD HOUSING AND COMMERCIAL, BUT WE'RE NOT DEFINING WHERE THINGS GO THAT DOES LEAVE THE DOOR OPEN, THAT YOU COULD HAVE MIXED USE OR HOUSING IN ONE PLACE, COMMERCIAL IN ONE PLACE. IT'S SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT THERE WOULD BE A TECHNICAL PROBLEM WITH IF, IF THIS RED INSTEAD SHOWING HOUSING COMMERCIAL SLASH RETAIL COMMA AND A COMMUNITY AND THEN THE REST OF THAT SENTENCE? I THINK THAT WOULD PROBABLY DEFINE A LITTLE MORE OF THE TYPES OF USES WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IN THE MASTER PLAN WHEN WE WERE SAYING MIXED USE, WE WERE ENVISIONING THAT THAT AREA WOULD INCLUDE COMMERCIAL AND HOUSING. SO IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT USES FOR THE PROPERTY OVERALL AND NOT ON SPECIFIC PORTIONS OF THE PROPERTY, YOU MIGHT BE BETTER TO GO WITH HOUSING, COMMERCIAL, RETAIL, THAT SORT OF THING, RATHER THAN TRYING TO PUT A MIXED USE IN THERE WITHOUT DEFINING SPECIFICALLY WHAT THAT MIX OF WOULD BE. RIGHT. I THINK THE TERM MIXED USE SHOULD BE REPLACED WITH WHAT. OKAY. THOSE ARE, WE, WE CAN CERTAINLY SWAP THAT OUT. THAT'S A THANK YOU. THAT'S AN EASY CHANGE. UH, WE USE MIXED USE QUITE A BIT IN OUR COMMUNICATIONS, BUT, UH, IN THIS CASE, UH, UNDERSTANDABLY SO WE CAN SAY HOUSING, COMMERCIAL, RETAIL, AND THE COMMUNITY, UH, YOU KNOW, COMMERCIAL SLASH RETAIL AND THE COMMUNITY BENEFIT AREA. THANK YOU. THAT ADDRESSES MY CONCERN. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS QUESTION? ? YES. NO, I, I HAVE A QUESTION, BUT, UM, DO ANY OF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS? OH, UM, I HAVE, I DON'T HAVE THE WORDING IN FRONT OF ME, BUT, UM, THE REFERENCE TO THE PLAN, ALTHOUGH I DO THINK IT SAID DRAFT, MAKES IT SOUND AS IF IT MIGHT BE FURTHER ALONG IN THE CITY'S EYES. IT IT, IF WE'RE NOT GONNA REFER PEOPLE TO THE EARL AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA ACTUALLY LOOK AT IT. OKAY. UM, I, I THINK THE, UM, A DRAFT QUESTION ONE, A DRAFT WESTERN GATEWAY MASTER PLAN WAS PRESENTED. IT, MAKE, IT, MAKES IT SOUND AS IF WE HAVEN'T VOTED ON IT YET, BUT THIS IS IT FOLKS. UM, AND WE WANT TO KNOW IT, IT JUST MAKES IT SEEM A LITTLE MORE FURTHER ALONG, ALONG IN THE PROCESS THEN IT MIGHT BE, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY ELSE FEELS THAT WAY. WELL, THAT, THAT'S ONE OF MY ISSUES TOO. WE, WE ASK PEOPLE, I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU THAT WE'RE SENDING THIS TO THE HOUSEHOLDS OF REGISTERED VOTERS IN THIS COMMUNITY. I DOUBT THAT I'LL BE GENEROUS AND SAY AT LEAST 50%, BUT I THINK IT'S MORE LIKE 75 OR 80% HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DRAFT PLAN IS OR WHAT IT CONTAINS. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS QUESTION IS REALLY GONNA HELP US. AND WE HAVEN'T ADOPTED THE DRAFT PLAN AND IN FACT, MOST OF COUNCIL DOESN'T SUPPORT THE DRAFT PLAN IN ITS CURRENT FORM BECAUSE WHEN WE SPOKE ABOUT IT THE LAST TIME, MOST OF COUNCIL SAID THEY THOUGHT IT WAS TOO DENSE WITH HOUSING. WHAT IF SOMEBODY LIKED THE, WELL, TWO THINGS. WHAT IF THEY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT? THEN YOU'RE GONNA GET A LOT OF DON'T KNOWS AND THAT'S NOT GONNA BE PARTICULARLY HELPFUL. SECONDLY, WHAT IF THEY LIKED THE IDEA OF HOUSING BUT THEY THINK THERE'S TOO MUCH HOUSING? WE DON'T HAVE [01:20:01] ANYTHING THAT ALLOWS THEM TO COMMENT. SO IT'S FOR THE PEOPLE WHO DO KNOW THEY CAN'T COMMENT, I LIKE THIS AND I DON'T LIKE THAT. AND THEN POLLING IS QUANTITATIVE DATA. THE, THE GOAL BEHIND THIS TYPE OF RESEARCH AS, AS IT'S BEEN PRESENTED AND REQUESTED OF US AS QUANTITATIVE IN NATURE, WHICH GIVES YOU AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT'S PRESENTED IN FRONT OF THE VOTERS. THEY GET THE EXACT SAME INFORMATION AND THEN THEY RESPOND AND REACT TO IT. THE, THE LEVEL OF KNOWLEDGE GIVES THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO SAY, I DON'T KNOW, UH, BUT UNDERSTANDING THEIR CONCERNS ABOUT DEN DENSITY OR LOCATION IN PARTICULAR ITEMS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT IS DONE IN A QUALITATIVE SETTING. QUALITATIVE SETTING IS A FOCUS GROUP OR A PRESENTATION OR A PUBLIC FORUM. UM, IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT TO A GOAL THAN WHAT A QUANTITATIVE SURVEY IS USED FOR. I DON'T THINK THIS IS GONNA BE PARTICULARLY HELPFUL BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY WILL KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. WHAT IT WILL GIVE YOU IS AN UNDERSTANDING OF IF PEOPLE LIKE THE IDEA OF A PLAN THAT INCLUDES HOUSING COMMERCIAL SLASH RETAIL IN A COMMUNITY BENEFIT AREA, THE DETAILS OF THE PROPOSAL ITSELF, PART OF OUR GOAL OF INCLUDING THE WEBSITE LINK ORIGINALLY WAS TO GIVE PEOPLE A CHANCE IF THEY WANTED TO LEARN MORE, THEY CAN LEARN MORE ABOUT IT BEFORE ANSWERING THE QUESTION. BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WAS, UH, SEVERAL RESPONDENTS WHO THOUGHT THAT THAT WOULD BE CONFUSING IN NATURE. SO WE TRIED TO ACCOMPLISH THAT BY PROVIDING THE LINK, UH, ELIMINATING THE LINK DOES CREATE THAT, BUT WE'RE NOT MEASURING IF PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PLAN IS OR NOT. WE'RE NEC WE'RE MORE UNDER MEASURING WHERE THEY CURRENTLY STAND BASED ON WHAT'S PRESENTED TO THEM. I'M NOT SURE I FOLLOWED THAT EXACTLY, PRESENTED TO THEM. IN WHAT WAY? THE WORDS HOUSING MIXED USE, WHICH WE'RE GONNA CHANGE COMMUNITY AREA. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO? YES. I, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW IS HOW THEY RESPOND AND REACT TO WHAT'S IN FRONT OF 'EM. AND I THINK THAT'S THE SAME ANSWER WHEN WE GO INTO QUESTION TWO AS WELL, IS IT'S NOT THE QUANTITY OF THE DIFFERENT ITEMS. WE'RE UNDERSTANDING WHAT THINGS STAND OUT TO THEM. THAT'S WHY WE ASK BOTH. FOR EXAMPLE, BOTH RESTAURANTS, RETAIL, COMMERCIAL SPACE, WHICH ARE ALL TECHNICALLY THE SAME THING OR CAN BE PART OF THE SAME IDEA. WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WITH THAT TYPE OF QUESTION IS WHAT STANDS OUT TO THEM AS IMPORTANT OR ARE THE DIFFERENT WORDS THAT WHAT, WHAT'S THE REACTION TO THE VARIOUS ITEMS THAT ARE PRESENTED? THAT'S WHAT QUANTITATIVE DATA DOES FOR YOU. SINCE YOU DON'T HAVE A FINALIZED PLAN. WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET AN UNDERSTANDING IS FROM WHAT HAS BEEN DIRECTED TO ME SO FAR IS UNDERSTANDING GENERAL SUPPORT OF THE COMMUNITY, WHAT ELEMENTS STAND OUT OR WHAT ELEMENTS MIGHT BE OF CONCERN FROM THE PUBLIC, AND THEN ASK AN AMPHITHEATER QUESTION. UH, THAT'S SORT OF THE GENERAL FLOW OF WHAT WE'RE GOING FOR. THIS IS NOT, YOU KNOW, A 20 MINUTE DEEP DIVE SURVEY. THIS ISN'T A FOCUS GROUP. THIS IS TO GIVE YOU A SNAPSHOT IN TIME AS YOU'RE MAKING DECISIONS, UH, OF WHAT ITEMS STAND OUT TO VOTERS AND, AND HOW THEY RESPOND TO THAT. DEREK, ARE WE KIND OF MIXING QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS? 'CAUSE THAT KIND OF CAME ACROSS AS I WOULD SCRATCH THE WHOLE QUESTION. I MEAN, I THINK PEOPLE ARE GONNA LOOK AT THIS. THEY'RE GONNA SAY DRAFT MASTER, WESTERN GATEWAY, MASTER PLAN. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS. RIGHT? AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA COMPLETE THE SURVEY. I MEAN, THE POINT OF THE SURVEY IS TO GET, 'CAUSE WE WANNA FIND OUT ONE, I WANNA FIND OUT IF PEOPLE SUPPORT THE AMPHITHEATER AND UM, I THINK WE COULD DO THAT WITH QUESTIONS TWO AND THREE WITHOUT GETTING INTO THIS MASTER PLAN THAT WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT'S GONNA BE. AND I THINK THAT THE FIRST QUESTION THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE FIRST ON HERE, BUT THE PRIMARY QUESTION THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED IS, IS THERE SUPPORT FOR THE AMPHITHEATER? BECAUSE WHETHER THE AMPHITHEATER STAYS OR GOES IS GOING TO AFFECT EVERY DECISION AT THAT PROPERTY. SO I DON'T WANT TO GET MUDDLED DOWN. I MEAN, WE WENT THROUGH THE DIG STUDIO STUFF AND WE WENT THROUGH ALL THIS HAND WRINGING OVER THE MASTER PLAN. NO ONE'S AGREED ON IT. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY WE'RE ASKING ABOUT IT. SO THAT MY VIEW IS SCRATCH ONE AND LEAVE IT WITH TWO AND THREE AND MAYBE WITH SLIGHT MODIFICATIONS. AND I AM INTERESTED IN HEARING FROM THE CULTURAL PARK SUPPORTERS, THE AMPHITHEATER SUPPORTERS, WHAT THEY THINK WE NEED TO SAY TO MAKE THIS NEUTRAL. UM, MY GOAL HERE IS TO COME UP WITH A NEUTRAL SURVEY SO WE CAN FIND OUT WHAT PEOPLE REALLY WANT AND IF WE BORE THEM WITH A URL AND SOMETHING WHERE THEY'VE GOTTA GO DO SOME HOMEWORK ON, A LOT OF 'EM AREN'T GONNA BOTHER. RIGHT. THAT, THAT WAS MY REACTION TO QUESTION ONE TOO. WE'RE REQUIRING THEM TO SPEND A LOT OF TIME GOING THROUGH PAGES AND PAGES AND PAGES OF PLANS AND COMMENTS AND THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO HOMEWORK TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND TO THIS QUESTION. I DON'T THINK IT HAS MUCH VALUE. WE GET SOME FEEDBACK FROM OUR POLLING EXPERT ON THAT MM-HMM [01:25:01] . DIRECTION? WELL, UM, I'D SAY YOU CAN'T, WE DON'T HAVE A PROPOSAL. TYPICALLY WHAT WE, WHEN WE DO THIS TYPE OF RESEARCH, MOST FOLKS WANT TO KNOW A PERCENTAGE YES AND A PERCENTAGE, YOU KNOW, BUT SINCE YOU DON'T HAVE AN ACTUAL ITEM THAT YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT PUTTING FORTH VOTERS TO KNOW 60% FAVOR IT OR 30% OPPOSE IT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THIS IS OUR BEST GOAL TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF JUST SORT OF WHAT THE, WHAT THE PUBLIC TEMPERATURE IS ON THE PROJECT BASED ON WHAT THEY KNOW RIGHT NOW. I AM NOT SAYING THAT WE EXPECT MOST FOLKS TO DO PAGES UPON PAGES OF RESEARCH INTO THE PLAN. THIS IS MORE OF A TEMPERATURE CHECK FOR TWO REASONS. ONE, TO GET AN UNDERSTANDING TO LET THEM KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE WE GO INTO THE VARIOUS ITEMS IN QUESTIONS TWO AND THREE, RIGHT? TO GET THEM UNDERSTANDING THAT WE'RE ASKING ABOUT THIS PLAN FOR THIS GENERAL SITE. SO THAT'S JUST A STARTING NUMBER. AND THEN TWO, IT SETS UP QUESTIONS TWO AND THREE, UM, TO GET THEM TO, IF THEY ANSWER THE FIRST ONE, THEY FEEL LIKE THEY'RE BEING HEARD AND THEN YOU GET THEM TO RATE THE PROGRAMS AND, AND CONTINUE YOUR DISCUSSION ON THE AMPHITHEATER. DEREK, I THINK THERE, I MEAN, I FEEL LIKE THERE IS A QUESTION WE WANT A YES NO ANSWER ON, WHICH IS DO YOU SUPPORT DOING SOMETHING WITH THE AMPHITHEATER BESIDES TEARING IT DOWN? YOU KNOW, I DON'T, I I I KNOW Y'ALL DISAGREED WITH ME WHEN I SAID LET'S JUST ASK THE ONE QUESTION I, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT. UM, BUT ALL THE OTHER STUFF IS IRRELEVANT UNTIL WE KNOW WHAT THE PUBLIC WANTS TO DO ABOUT THE AMPHITHEATER AND I'M FINE WITH QUESTION TWO, YOU KNOW, LET'S KIND OF FLESH SOME OF THESE ISSUES OUT A LITTLE BIT MORE. BUT I MEAN, I THINK THE IMPORTANT QUESTION IS THREE AND I DON'T WANT TO GET JUST, YOU KNOW, DOWN IN THE WEEDS ON ALL THESE OTHER ITEMS AND ESPECIALLY I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE TO GO DO HOMEWORK TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE HELL WE'RE EVEN TALKING ABOUT. SO KATHY, I I, I'M HEARING YOUR CONCERNS, BUT I THINK THAT THERE'S NO CONTEXT TO QUESTION TWO WITHOUT QUESTION ONE. YEAH. UM, I THINK MAYBE IF, IF, IF, IF IT'S ABOUT, AND I UNDERSTAND THE COMPLEXITY OF DRIVING PEOPLE, I DON'T WANNA DRIVE PEOPLE TO A DOCUMENT THAT'S GOING TO CONFUSE THEM AND MAKE THEM THINK THAT THAT'S THE THING THAT IS BEING PROPOSED. SO I, THAT IS WHY I SUGGESTED MOVING THE VIEW THE PLAN TO THE VERY END FOR PEOPLE LOOKING FOR MORE INFORMATION. I DIDN'T WANT IT TO CLOUD THE, THE QUESTION, BUT IF IT'S, IF IT JUST SAID THAT THE CITY IS CONSIDERING A MASTER PLAN FOR THE WESTERN GATEWAY AREA THAT WOULD INCLUDE HOUSING MIXED USE COMMUNITY AREA THAT CONTAINS BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. BASED ON THAT, WOULD YOU, DO YOU SUPPORT OR PROPOSE THIS PROPOSAL? I THINK JUST SIMPLIFYING THIS QUESTION, BUT I THINK THIS QUESTION NEEDS TO BE THERE TO PROVIDE THE CONTEXT FOR TWO AND THREE. WELL, COULDN'T THAT JUST BE A PREAMBLE? DOES IT HAVE TO BE A QUESTION? WELL, IT'S, UM, THAT'S A QUESTION FOR OUR EXPERT. THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A PROPERTY OUT THERE, THERE, HOLD ON A LITTLE CONTEXT ON THAT. I THINK IT'S VERY HELPFUL FOR US TO ASK THIS QUESTION BECAUSE THEN THAT GIVES US THE SUPPORT FOLKS THAT WE CAN LOOK AT SORT OF THE ANSWERS TO THE REST OF THE QUESTIONS, THE OPPOSITION FOLKS, THE ANSWERS TO THEIR QUESTIONS AND THE DON'T KNOW FOLKS, SO YOU KNOW WHAT THE DIFFERENT AUDIENCES ARE THINKING AND IF THERE'S SOME SOMETHING THAT REALLY STANDS OUT, IT WILL HELP YOU, UH, SUSS OUT WHAT MAYBE THE, IF THERE'S OPPOSITION, WHAT IT'S PRIMARILY BASED ON. AND YOU KNOW, I KNOW WE THINK IT'S ABOUT THE AMPHITHEATER, BUT WHEN I DO THESE SURVEYS, I'M SURPRISED ALL THE TIME WITH THE ANSWERS TO SOME OF THE QUESTIONS AND THAT'S WHY WE ASK THEM ALL SO THAT WE GET, WE GET AS MUCH DATA AS POSSIBLE TO LOOK THROUGH AND, AND HELP MAKE A BETTER DECISION BY LOOKING AT ALL THE DIFFERENT DATA POINTS, NOT JUST THE ONES THAT WE THINK WE KNOW. I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE. CHARLOTTE, UM, I WAS GONNA SAY, KATHY, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. JUST IF WE COULD GET RID OF THE REFERENCE TO THE TITLE OF THE RIGHT, THE PLAN, THE DRAFT PLAN, AND JUST TALK ABOUT THE CITY IS CONSIDERING SO ON AND SO FORTH, UM, WE CAN DO THAT. SO WHAT WOULD THAT READ, WHICH I MIGHT, WHICH I MIGHT SUGGEST A PLAN FOR THE WESTERN GATEWAY AREA, UH, THAT INCLUDES HOUSING, COMMERCIAL, RETAIL, AND COMMUNITY BENEFIT AREA THAT CONTAINS AN EVENT SPACE FOR PUBLIC GATHERINGS AND PERFORMANCES. BASED ON WHAT YOU KNOW RIGHT NOW, DO YOU SUPPORT OR OPPOSE THIS PLAN? YEAH, YEAH. OR THESE IDEAS? MM-HMM . I DON'T KNOW THAT I, I MEAN I WOULD, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY. THE WORD PROPOSAL, THE WORD PLAN IS PRETTY LOADED, BUT THIS DIRECTION, THESE IDEAS, THIS SOMETHING MIGHT BE A SOFTER WAY TO, OKAY. [01:30:01] I WOULD BE OKAY WITH THAT. IS THERE GOING TO BE SOME SORT OF PREAMBLE TO THIS THAT SAYS THERE'S THIS, WELL, THE INTRODUCTION THERE, BUT YOU COULD PUT THE REFERENCE TO PLAN SEDONA UP IN THE PREAMBLE, I SUPPOSE. YEAH. I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD, BUT LIKE EVERYBODY HERE, I'M NOT EXPECTING ANYONE TO GO ON THE SITE AND DO THE RESEARCH. I, WELL, AND THAT'S FEW PEOPLE WILL, BUT MY ISSUE WITH HAVING IT IN THE PREAMBLE AS OPPOSED TO THE END, BECAUSE I THINK PEOPLE WILL FEEL THAT THERE IS A RESPONSIBILITY TO GO ON THERE AND, AND BE DISCOURAGED FROM GOING FORWARD BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE TOO MUCH HOMEWORK, YOU KNOW? RIGHT. I'M TRYING TO, I'M TRYING TO GET THE MOST RESPONSES HERE. OKAY. OKAY. NEXT QUESTION, QUESTION TWO. ALL RIGHT, QUESTION TWO. DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION ON QUESTION ONE? YES. OKAY. WE CAN, WE'LL PRESENT AN UPDATED DRAFT WITH A, A MORE SIMPLIFIED QUESTION THAT IT, THAT TALK THAT DOES NOT NAME THE PLAN SPECIFICALLY, BUT MORE THAT REDUCES THE, THE CONCERN ABOUT IT BEING FURTHER ALONG OR THAT IT'S A TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT PLAN. UH, WE ARE JUST TRYING TO BE AS ACCURATE AS POSSIBLE. THAT'S WHY WE NAMED THE PLAN ITSELF. MM-HMM . BUT, UH, WE CAN BE MORE GENERAL IN NATURE WHEN IT COMES TO THE PLAN TO, BECAUSE REALLY WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO IS WE'RE TRYING TO GAUGE AN UNDERSTANDING OF USING THE, THE HOUSING, COMMERCIAL RETAIL COMMUNITY BENEFIT AREA. THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE BIGGER GOAL THAN THE ACTUAL NAME OF THE PLANET. THAT'S RIGHT. FORMALLY. THAT'S RIGHT. THANK YOU. ON QUESTION TWO, OUR GOAL HERE IS JUST TO GAUGE AN UNDERSTANDING AND PUT THEM ON A SCALE OF ONE TO FIVE. ONE MEANING NOT AT ALL IMPORTANT TO FIVE MEANING VERY IMPORTANT. UM, THAT'S WHY I KNOW SOME OF YOU ASKED IF WE CAN USE THE WORD PRIORITIZE. I DON'T WANT THEM TO CHOOSE ONE OR THE OTHER MAY DECIDE THAT THEY LIKE THIS THE BEST AND, AND GAUGE ACCORDINGLY. THE IDEA BEHIND THIS IS THAT THEY RATE EACH INDIVIDUAL ITEM INDIVIDUALLY TO SEE WHICH ONES RISE UP AND WHICH ONES DO NOT. UM, THE WHOLE GOAL OF WHY WE HAVE THIS POINT SCALE THERE IS BECAUSE THEN WE CAN PROVIDE YOU WITH A MEAN SCORE, WHICH IS SORT OF LIKE A STAR RATING ON A FIVE STAR. YOU KNOW, WE WILL HAVE EACH ONE OF THESE ITEMS RATED ON THAT SCALE OF ONE TO FIVE, AND YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE SORT OF WHAT ITEMS RISE TO THE TOP AND WHAT ITEMS, UH, MAYBE ARE LESS IMPORTANT OR MAYBE ARE LESS, UH, SUPPORTED. THE OTHER THING YOU'LL NOTE IS THAT WE ASK A COUPLE OF THE SAME THINGS, UH, A FEW DIFFERENT WAYS. I KNOW THERE'S QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS HOUSING VERSUS APARTMENTS AND TOWN HOMES. UH, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE, FOR SOME FOLKS THOSE MEAN THE SAME THINGS FOR OTHER FOLKS, THEY MEAN VERY DIFFERENT THINGS. IT CAN HELP YOUR, YOUR STAFF AND YOU WITH HOW MUCH SPECIFICITY DO YOU GET BETTER? DO YOU GET BETTER UNDERSTANDING FROM THE ELECTORATE? DO YOU GET BETTER SUPPORT FROM THE ELECTORATE, UM, IF THEY KNOW IT'S APARTMENTS AND TOWN HOMES VERSUS THE IDEA THAT IT'S OUT JUST GENERAL HOUSING. UH, SAME THING WITH RESTAURANTS AND RETAIL VERSUS COMMERCIAL SPACES. THEY'RE ONE OF THOSE ITEMS THAT REALLY STANDS OUT SO THAT WE ARE NOT JUST USING GENERAL LANGUAGE, ASSUMING THEY ALL ARE THE SAME, BUT GETTING AN IDEA OF IF THERE IS A, UH, DIFFERENCE IN THE UNDERSTANDING AND SUPPORT FOR THOSE VARIOUS ITEMS. SIMILAR, UH, COMMERCIAL GATHER, COMMUNITY GATHERING SPACE, EVENT, LAWN AND AMPHITHEATER ARE THREE DIFFERENT WAYS TO SORT OF DESCRIBE THE SAME AREA. WE'RE TRYING TO GET AN UNDERSTANDING, IS THERE A BUZZWORD, IS THERE AN ITEM, IS THERE A GENERAL UNDERSTANDING THAT STANDS OUT FOR FOLKS SO THAT WE UNDERSTAND WHAT LANGUAGE WE'RE USING AND WHAT IMPACT IT HAS ON THE OVERALL, UH, UNDERSTANDING OF THE ELECTORATE? SO THERE'S FIVE, YOU KNOW, SCORING FROM ONE TO FIVE, BUT THERE'S EIGHT ITEMS, SO THEY CAN'T SCORE EVERY ITEM, IS THAT RIGHT? YES, THEY WILL, IT WILL BE BULLET, IT WILL BE NUMBERS ACROSS EACH OF THEM. SO EACH ONE THEY GIVE A SCORE OF ONE TO FIVE. OKAY. SO THAT'S NOT A PRIORITY SETTING. UH, THEY ACTUALLY SCORE EACH ONE OF THOSE INDIVIDUALLY. AND IS THERE SOMETHING THAT WOULD EXPLAIN, YOU CAN SCORE, YOU KNOW, ONE TO FIVE MULTIPLE TIMES? YES. THE, THE WAY THE BUTTONS ARE SET UP AND ALSO THE DESCRIPTION UNDERNEATH WILL MAKE THEY, THEY CAN ANSWER FOR EACH ITEM. IT WILL BE, UH, IT WILL BE PRETTY, UH, USER FRIENDLY AND IF THEY SKIP ONE, IT WILL ASK THEM FOR AN ANSWER FOR IT, EVEN IF IT'S DON'T KNOW. OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE ON QUESTION TWO? YEAH, THAT'S THE WORDING ON THAT. UM, WHEN IT SAYS, PLEASE RATE THE COMPONENTS THAT MAY BE INCLUDED IN THE WESTERN GATEWAY, I, I, I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE MORE FRIENDLY TO USE THE, THAT YOU WOULD LIKE INSTEAD OF THE WORD MAY. AND ALSO I DIDN'T WANT SOMEBODY TO SAY, WELL, I DIDN'T, I SAID, NO, THAT SHOULDN'T BE INCLUDED. AND YOU KNOW THAT THERE'S A, IT'S A PERMISSION [01:35:01] ITEM WITH USING THE WORD MAY, SO I JUST DON'T WANT IT TO CREATE CONFUSION. COULD THAT BE CHANGED TO COMPONENTS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE? PLEASE RATE THE COMPONENTS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE INSTEAD OF MAY? SO THE, THIS IS OUR GOAL HERE IS TO NOT LIMIT TO, SO BACK TO YOUR AMPHITHEATER DISCUSSION OF WHETHER THAT'S THE BIG ANSWER OR NOT, WHETHER IT IS OR ISN'T GOING TO BE INCLUDED MAY GIVES YOU THE FLEXIBILITY THAT IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE INCLUDED IN ANY OF THESE, UH, PROPOSALS. UM, THAT'S WHY WE USE THAT WORD IN PARTICULAR BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT LIMITED. IF IT WAS A PLAN THAT WAS FINALIZED AND VOTED ON, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS PLEASE RATE THE FOLLOWING COMPONENTS THAT ARE INCLUDED IN THE, IN THE PROPOSAL OR IN THE PLAN. MAY GIVES YOU MORE FLEXIBILITY THERE. UM, I ALSO DON'T WANT, WOULD LIKE TO SEE BECAUSE, UM, THEY MAY OR MAY NOT WANNA SEE THEM, BUT IF THEY DON'T WANT TO SEE IT, THAT'S WHERE THAT RANKING OF ONE NOT AT ALL IMPORTANT, UH, COMES IN THAT THEY, THEY DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT THAT NUMBER ONE RANKING IS FOR. OKAY. I DON'T THINK IT'S WORTH, OKAY. WHY WAS THE REC CENTER NOT INCLUDED? IS THAT SOMETHING THE COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO SEE INCLUDED ON THE LIST FOR QUESTION TWO? YES, I WOULD. I'M SEEING HEADS NODDING HERE. PAUL, IS THAT POSSIBLE TO ADD TO THAT LIST WOULD BE ITEM I AND YOU WOULD LIKE TO CALL IT A RECREATION CENTER COMMUNITY RECREATION CENTER? I, I DIDN'T HEAR THE FIRST WORD. COMMUNITY RECREATION CENTER. ONE MORE TIME. I'M NOT CATCHING THE FIRST ONE. SHE DIDN'T HEAR, I DIDN'T HEAR. COMMUNITY RECREATION CENTER. OKAY. WE CAN INCLUDE THAT AS WELL. THANK YOU. AS FOR QUESTION THREE, WE'RE TRYING TO GIVE SORT OF TWO OPTIONS THERE, AND WE DO HAVE, UH, AN OTHER, I KNOW ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WAS GIVING PEOPLE, UH, THE OPPORTUNITY TO, TO GIVE MORE OF AN OPEN-ENDED , BUT AS IT'S BEEN POSTED TO ME, THERE'S REALLY SORT OF TWO OPTIONS, MORE OF A, A GREEN SPACE, UH, OPEN TO PUBLIC AS A PARK AND AVAIL, UH, ABILITY TO HOST PUBLIC GATHERINGS AND AN ENTERTAINMENT AMPHITHEATER. I, I KNOW THERE'S QUESTIONS ABOUT COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT DEPENDING ON IF YOU'RE, THE ONLY THING I WOULD SAY IS THAT THE, THE QUESTION HOW IT'S POSED WILL BE WHAT THE DATA IS RELIABLE FOR. SO IF YOU CHOOSE TO SAY WITHOUT ANY PUBLIC COST NOW, AND THEN YOU DECIDE TO PUT A PUBLIC COST IN IT LATER, THEN THIS DATA WOULD NO LONGER BE VALID. SO IF YOU ADD A COST CONCERN TO IT, JUST KNOW THAT THAT DOES LIMIT THE DATA. IF YOU WERE TO CHANGE OR CHANGE YOUR MIND OR CHANGE DIRECTION ON THE OVERALL COST, I DON'T THINK WE NEED A COST QUESTION. NO, BUT I DO. WHAT, WHAT ABOUT IF THIS QUESTION TO ME IS YOU'RE CHOOSING ONE OVER THE OTHER, TELL ME IF THIS IS RIGHT OR WRONG. THIS IS HOW I READ IT. WHAT IF YOU COULD HAVE BOTH, UH, THAT'S AN OPTION THAT THEY COULD CHOOSE IN OTHER, WHEN I DO, UH, TELEPHONIC SURVEYS, I'LL OFTEN KEEP BOTH AS AN OPTION THAT'S NOT READ, BUT THEN IS, IS ACCEPTED AS AN ANSWER. IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE DIFFICULT TO DO IN THIS TYPE OF SURVEY. IT WOULD HAVE TO FALL UNDER THE OTHER DESCRIBED CATEGORY. UM, BECAUSE AS FAR AS IT'S COMPOSED TO ME IT'S, IT IS AN OPTION A, IT'S AN AB TEST FOR TESTING. IF, IF GIVEN THOSE TWO OPTIONS, WHICH OF THOSE WOULD THEY PREFER? UM, IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE DIFFICULT TO DO AN ONLINE MEASUREMENT, BUT WE DON'T KNOW THAT THIS SPACE OF 41 ACRES CAN'T INCLUDE BOTH AN AMPHITHEATER AND A GREEN SPACE AS YOU'VE DESCRIBED IT IN THE FIRST BULLET. SO WE'RE ASKING THEM TO CHOOSE ONE VERSUS THE OTHER WHEN IT'S POSSIBLE SINCE IT'S LARGE SPACE THAT BOTH COULD BE INCLUDED. AND WE DON'T GIVE THEM THE OPTION TO SAY THAT WE COULD ADD BOTH. I'D LIKE BOTH OF THEM. BOTH OR NEITHER AS AN AS OPTIONS. HMM. BUT BOTH OR NEITHER AS POSSIBLE RESPONSES. I SUPPORT GREEN SPACE. I SUPPORT COMMERCIAL OUTDOOR LIVE AMPHITHEATER. I SUPPORT BOTH. I SUPPORT NEITHER. I DON'T KNOW OTHER, I MEAN, WOULD THAT INVALIDATE IT? UH, WE, AS I SAID, WHEN WE DO THIS TELEPHONICALLY, WE'LL OFTEN TAKE BOTH OR NEITHER AS AN ANSWER. I I DO THINK YOU WILL HAVE A, A CERTAIN, UH, A PORTION OF [01:40:01] FOLKS WHEN GIVEN THE OPTION, THEY'LL CHOOSE BOTH SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS THE EASIEST ANSWER TO DO. UM, FOR EXAMPLE, UH, WE'VE DONE A LOT OF SURVEY RESEARCH ON TRANSPORTATION PLANNING, AND IF YOU GIVE 'EM FOUR BUCKETS TO PUT TRANSPORTATION FUNDING IN, LET'S SAY IT'S LIKE STREETS, FREEWAYS, UM, TRANSIT AND INTERSECTIONS, THEY DIVIDE IT EVENLY INTO FOURTHS IF YOU JUST LEFT TO THEIR OWN DEVICES. THAT'S SORT OF HUMAN BEHAVIOR HERE. IF YOU'RE TRYING TO GET A GAUGE OF WHICH WAY MOST FOLKS LEAN, YOU'D WANT TO GIVE THEM, UH, THE, JUST LEAVE IT TO AN AB TEST AND THEN ACCEPT BOTH OR NEITHER. UM, AS A, AN OPEN-ENDED OR OTHER SUPPORT, I CAN PUT BOTH OR NEITHER IN THERE, BUT I WILL, UH, JUST SAY THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A PORTION OF BOTH THAT THAT RESPONDENTS WHO CHOOSE BOTH YOU REALLY ACTUALLY WOULD PREFER ONE OVER THE OTHER. BUT YOU'RE, WE'RE WE'RE GIVING THEM THE IMPRESSION THAT IT'S AN EITHER OR AND WE HAVEN'T DECIDED WHETHER IT'S AN EITHER OR. WELL, THIS IS TO GUIDE US IN, IN THAT THIS ISN'T ABOUT A PLAN, THIS IS ABOUT CONCEPTS, RIGHT? WE'RE NOT VOTING ON A PLAN OR ASKING THE PEOPLE TO VOTE ON A, WE, WE HAD THIS KIND OF CONVERSATION IN THE EARLIER QUESTIONS THAT IT'S NOT SPECIFIC. THIS IS GENERAL AND THIS GIVES A WAY TO REALLY FOCUS ON WHAT PEOPLE PREFER BECAUSE IT ASSUMES YOU CAN ONLY HAVE ONE OR THE OTHER. WELL, BUT IT HAS THE DETAIL IN THERE THAT THE FIRST BULLET SAYS A CAPACITY OF APPROXIMATELY 1500 AND THE SECOND BULLET HAS CAPACITY OF APPROXIMATELY 5,500. SO I MEAN THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS. SO ONE INCONCEIVABLY WOULD HAVE A PREFERENCE OF ONE OVER THE OTHER, AND THAT'S THE INFORMATION WE'RE TRYING TO GET TO. I DON'T THINK THAT IS THE INFORMATION WE'RE TRYING TO GET TO. I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO GET TO, AT LEAST AS WE DISCUSSED IT EARLIER, WHETHER PEOPLE SUPPORT AN AMPHITHEATER. I THINK THE SIZE HAS A LOT TO DO WITH IT. I THINK THAT'S FINE. YOU COULD ASK A QUESTION ABOUT A SIZE, BUT WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS ASKING A QUESTION ABOUT GREEN SPACE, A PARK AND HOSTING GATHERINGS AS IF THAT'S THE ONLY WAY YOU COULD DO IT. I THINK IT'S, I THINK WE'RE LEADING PEOPLE. YOU COULD JUST ASK THE QUESTION. I SUPPORT, I SUPPORT A COMMERCIAL OUTDOOR AMPHITHEATER, OR I DO NOT SUPPORT, JUST DO THOSE TWO. AND I DON'T KNOW AN OTHER, IF SOMEONE SAYS, WELL, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT 5,500 SEATS, BUT IF IT WERE 2,500, THEN MAYBE I COULD BE OKAY WITH IT. THEN THEY COULD FILL THAT IN. THEY COULD CHEW THAT IN OTHER, YEAH, WELL THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. YEAH, IF SOMEBODY'S LIKE, EH, I DON'T LIKE, YOU KNOW, THAT SEEMS TOO BIG. OTHER THEY COULD ELABORATE. I KNOW WE'RE NITPICKING HERE, BUT , I KIND OF LIKE THE, THE TWO QUESTIONS AND THEN THE, UM, BOTH OR NEITHER OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE WHY JUST ASK ABOUT THE 5,500. I MEAN, WHY NOT? I MEAN, IF WE'RE GONNA ASK ABOUT A REC CENTER, WE'VE ALSO TALKED ABOUT SMALLER VENUES, SO WHY NOT ASK THAT? I I WANNA MAKE THE SURVEY AS USEFUL AS POSSIBLE. YEAH, IT IT'S TRUE. YOUR POINT. I TAKE YOUR POINT BECAUSE I TAKE YOUR POINT. I'M NOT SURE HOW I FEEL ABOUT BOTH, BUT NEITHER YEAH, ABSOLUTELY NEEDS TO BE AN OPTION THERE TOO. SO IF NEITHER'S ON THERE SHOULD BOTH BE AS WELL IS ANOTHER QUESTION. MY OTHER ISSUE WITH IT IS THE WORD COMMERCIAL, WHICH I DON'T THINK, I'M NOT SURE WE KNOW WHAT THE CITY'S INTENT MIGHT BE. UH, WE DON'T, WE CERTAINLY HAVEN'T TAKEN A VOTE ON WHAT THE CITY'S INTENT MIGHT BE ON A LEVEL OF SUPPORT OF IT FINANCIALLY. BUT I THINK TO SAY COMMERCIAL, I'M NOT SURE THAT THE READER IS GONNA UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT THAT MEANS. UM, DOES IT MEAN PRIVATE, DOES IT MEAN, UM, WHOLLY FUNDED BY THE THE COMMERCIAL ENTITY? DOES IT MEAN WHAT DOES IT MEAN? SO I WISH WE COULD MASSAGE THE WORD COMMERCIAL. I JUST REMOVE IT. I I WOULD BE FINE WITH REMOVING JUST THAT WORD AS LONG AS THE OTHER DESCRIPTIONS STAY OF OUTDOOR LIVE ENTERTAINMENT AMPHITHEATER WITH THE CAPACITY OF, I THINK. OKAY. OKAY. BUT UNLESS IT'S A PUBLIC PARK, IT'S GONNA BE COMMERCIAL ON SOME LEVEL. I MEAN, EVEN IF IT'S OPERATED BY A NONPROFIT, YOU'RE STILL GONNA HAVE TO BUY A TICKET TO GO TO A CONCERT THERE. YOU CAN'T JUST SHOW UP AND WANDER ON SITE. THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING OF COMMERCIAL AND WHY WHEN WE ORIGINALLY STARTED TALKING ABOUT [01:45:01] THIS, WHAT, TWO MONTHS AGO THAT I SAID THE WORD COMMERCIAL SHOULD BE INCLUDED, BUT I THINK COMMERCIAL HAS DIFFERENT MEANINGS TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE AT THIS POINT. SOMETHING IT HAS TO DO WITH THE FUNDING STRUCTURE OF WHAT MAY OR MAY NOT GO THERE. OTHERS AS I TOOK IT AS YOU DID MEANS PURCHASING A TICKET. IT'S A COMMERCIAL TRANSACTION FOR A, YOU KNOW, A VENUE. BUT AS LONG AS, AS I SAID, I DON'T KNOW THAT THE WORD COMMERCIAL BEING HERE ADDS OR DETRACTS ANYTHING, UH, FROM THE REST OF IT, AS LONG AS THE REST OF IT STAYS THERE, WHICH IS THE DESCRIPTION OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE THE IMPACT OF AN OUTDOOR LIVE ENTERTAINMENT AMPHITHEATER. SO I THINK THE WORD COMMERCIAL COULD JUST COME OUT WITHOUT IT DETERIORATING THE REST OF THE POINT BECAUSE THE STAGE PERFORMANCES, TO YOUR POINT MM-HMM . THAT'S IN THE BULLET ONE REQUIRE A TICKET, SOME OF THEM AS WELL IT COULD CORRECT. AND JUST BECAUSE IT'S RUN BY THE CITY, SO IT'S NOT COMMERCIAL DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT DOESN'T COST SOMEBODY TO PARTICIPATE. I LIKE IT. THIS IS WHY WE WE VET THESE THINGS FOR THREE MONTHS. , I'M FINE TAKING OUT COMMERCIAL AS LONG AS WE DON'T REPLACE IT WITH SOMETHING THAT IMPLIES. DO WE HAVE CONSENSUS ON THAT? YEAH, I, I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE WORD COMMERCIAL. IT CAN STAY OR GO. I WAS INTRIGUED BY THE IDEA OF ASKING DO YOU SUPPORT THE 5,000 SQUARE FOOT THING OR I DO NOT SUPPORT IT. WE DIDN'T REALLY TALK ABOUT THAT. YOU BROUGHT THAT UP AND THAT GOT DROPPED FROM OUR CONVERSATION. I WOULD RATHER THAN ASK, I WOULD CONSIDER REPLACING THE FIRST BULLET POINT WITH I DO NOT SUPPORT. AND THE GREEN SPACE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE GREEN SPACE. THE GREEN SPACE IS UP IN THE CHART. SO THE, SO WE GET, SO THE SETUP FOR QUESTION THREE COULD BE REGARDING THE AMPHITHEATER IN QUESTION TWO, YOU SUPPORT A 5,000 OR I DO NOT SUPPORT A 5,000. I MEAN THAT'S REALLY THE QUESTION I WANT ANSWERED. CAN WE HEAR FROM OUR CONSULTANT? DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION ON WHAT WE'RE SAYING? UH, WE CAN TEST IT EITHER WAY. I'VE BEEN, THE GUIDANCE I WAS PROVIDED IS GIVE YOU AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHICH WOULD BE MORE PREFERENTIAL, UH, THE SMALLER SPACE OR THE LARGER SPACE. YOU JUST WANT A ANSWER ABOUT THE LARGER SPACE? WE CAN CERTAINLY POSE IT. WE WOULD SAY BASICALLY MOVE THE DESCRIPTION OF THE ENTERTAINMENT AMPHITHEATER WITH THE CAPACITY OF 5,500 PEOPLE TO THE INTRODUCTION OF IT AND JUST SAY, KNOWING WHAT YOU KNOW RIGHT NOW, DO YOU SUPPORT OR OPPOSE IT? UM, WE CAN DO THAT. UH, I'M OKAY WITH TAKING THE WORD COMMERCIAL OUT OF IT. IT DOES NOT GIVE YOU ANY DIRECT GUIDANCE ON EITHER OR. YOU KNOW, IT'S, WE POSE THIS AS AN AB TEST RIGHT NOW, BUT WE CAN DO JUST A STRAIGHT SUPPORT TEST OF JUST THE AMPHITHEATER IF YOU WOULD LIKE. THAT'S THE APPROACH I WOULD PREFER. YEAH, I'M, I'M NOT SURE I PREFER THAT APPROACH. I DON'T MIND THE WAY THAT THIS IS, AS LONG AS A NEITHER OPTION GETS IN HERE AS WELL, BUT I'M OPEN TO HEARING. WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO GAUGE THE LEVEL OF INTEREST IN A SMALLER VENUE AND WITHOUT PROPOSING IT OR, OR TOSSING IT OUT THERE. HOW DO WE DO THAT? BUT YOU WOULD INCLUDE BOTH OR NEITHER, CORRECT? YES, I WOULD. WELL, AGAIN, THE OTHER, IF SOMEBODY, UM, CHECKED OFF, IS THERE A WAY, WELL THIS WOULD BE VERY CUMBERSOME FOR YOU IN TABULATION THOUGH, I THINK, BUT IF, IF, COULD SOMEBODY CHECK ONE OF THE OPTIONS AND OTHER SO THAT THEY COULD WRITE IN THEIR THOUGHTS? OR IS THERE JUST A WAY TO GET COMMENTS, BUT THEN HOW DO YOU TABULATE THAT? 'CAUSE THAT'S BEYOND THE SCOPE OF WHAT THAT UNFORTUNATELY YEAH, YEAH. SO IT'S ONE, IT'S ONE RADIO BUTTON THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO SELECT. OKAY. UH, WE CAN ADD BOTH OR NEITHER IF YOU WANT TO KEEP THE QUESTION AS IS OR I CAN MAKE IT A QUESTION SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE AMPHITHEATER. BOTH OF THOSE WOULD GET YOU RELIABLE RESULTS. ASKING A PICKING ONE AND PICKING A COMMENT IS, UH, WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO DO BECAUSE WHICH AN ANSWER GETS THE MORE EMPHASIS. UM, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ELIMINATING BIAS AND SURVEY, THE BIGGEST THING THAT WE CAN'T DO IS, UH, NEGOTIATE WITH VOTERS IN PARTICULAR. MM-HMM . THE, THE CHALLENGE THAT WE HAVE IS, I GET ASKED THIS QUESTION A LOT. WELL, LET'S ASK 'EM ABOUT A 5,500 SEAT AMPHITHEATER AND THEN FOLLOW UP WITH, WELL YOU DON'T LIKE 55, WHAT ABOUT 2,500? ULTIMATELY THEY MAY SETTLE FOR THAT, BUT THAT'S A NEGOTIATION TACTIC, RIGHT? EVERYONE'S, YOU KNOW, BOUGHT SOMETHING WHERE THEY START WITH A HIGH PRICE AND THEN THEY CUT IT DOWN. OR YOU START WITH A LOW PRICE AND THEN YOU SAY, OKAY, YOU DO 2,500, WHAT ABOUT 5,500? UM, YOU KNOW, THAT'S FOOT IN THE DOOR OR DOOR IN THE FACE NEGOTIATING TACTICS THAT TENDS TO GIVE YOU FALSE RESULTS. THAT'S WHY WE TRY TO DO JUST SORT OF HERE'S THE OPTIONS AND CHOOSE THEM OR THIS IS WHAT'S BEING CONSIDERED, DO YOU SUPPORT OR OPPOSE IT? THOSE GIVE YOU MUCH MORE RELIABLE RESULTS THAT DON'T INCLUDE ANY BIAS. ELECTOR, [01:50:01] WHY DON'T WE HEAR FROM THE PUBLIC WHEN WE COME BACK TO THIS QUESTION? OKAY, I GOT A LOT OF CARDS HERE. CAN WE TAKE A START WITH JOHN BRADSHAW? CAN WE TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK FOLLOWED BY MAYOR? TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK FIRST. OH, SURE. WE'RE GONNA TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK. JUST FIVE THERE. IT'S OKAY. SO I'M OPENING THE PUBLIC HEARING AND WE HAVE JOHN BRADSHAW FOLLOWED BY HERB, TIFFANY, AND THEN JEN MAY. ALL RIGHT, GOOD EVENING. LONG, LONG NIGHT. I'VE GOT LIKE PTSD BEING BACK IN HERE, FEEL MYSELF GOING THROUGH THE VOTES WITH YOU. SO, UM, MY NAME'S JOHN BRADSHAW. I'M A SEDONA RESIDENT. UM, THANKS FOR HAVING US HERE, MAYOR COUNCIL. UM, I'D LIKE TO SPEAK ABOUT WHY IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE SURVEY TO HAVE TWO SIMPLE QUESTIONS. THE FIRST ONE, HAVE YOU EVER ATTENDED AN EVENT AT THE AMPHITHEATER? THE SECOND ONE, WERE YOU AWARE THAT THERE IS ALREADY A 5,000 SEAT AMPHITHEATER THAT ALREADY EXISTS ON THE SITE RIGHT NOW? IF WE DON'T ASK THOSE TWO, THOSE TWO QUESTIONS, THE SURVEY RESULTS WILL JUST SHOW OVERALL PERCENTAGES. WE WON'T KNOW WHO ACTUALLY HAS BEEN THERE, WHO KNOWS ABOUT IT, BUT HASN'T GONE AND WHO MAY NOT EVEN REALIZE THEY EXIST. THOSE ARE THREE DIFFERENT GROUPS AND THEIR OPINIONS CAN BE VERY DIFFERENT AS WELL. WHEN COMMUNITIES SURVEY PUBLIC FACILITIES, IT'S COMMON PRACTICE TO SEPARATE RESPONSES. THIS WAY IT HELPS EVERYONE BETTER UNDERSTAND WHAT THE NUMBERS REALLY MEAN. FOR EXAMPLE, SOMEONE WHO THINKS THIS IS A BRAND NEW PROPOSAL TO BUILD A 5,500 SEAT VENUE FROM SCRATCH MAY ANSWER IT VERY DIFFERENT FROM SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS THE AMPHITHEATER ALREADY EXISTS AND, AND IS APPROVED WITHOUT KNOWING WHO UNDERSTANDS WHAT. IT'S HARD TO INTERPRET THE RESULTS CLEARLY. THIS ISN'T ABOUT PROMOTING ONE SIDE OVER THE OTHER. IT IS SIMPLY ABOUT CLARITY, ASKING ABOUT PRIOR ATTENDANCE AND AWARENESS GIVES BETTER INFORMATION SO HE CAN MAKE BETTER DECISIONS. WE RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT THESE TWO QUESTIONS BE INCLUDED SOMEHOW IN THIS SURVEY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU MAYOR AND COUNSEL. UH, MY NAME IS HERP TIFFANY. I RESIDE IN CORNFIELD, BUT I'VE RUN A BUSINESS IN SEDONA NOW FOR OVER 30 YEARS. I WOULD LIKE TO DEVOTE MY COMMENTS TO THE ACTUAL CONDITION OF THE EXISTING AMPHITHEATER. THE SECOND QUESTION OF THE PROPOSED SURVEY ASKS RESPONDENTS TO RATE THE COMPONENTS THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE INCLUDED IN THE WESTERN GATEWAY MASTER PLAN. WOULD THE LAST OPTION BEING AN AMPHITHEATER? I BELIEVE IT WOULD BE MORE ACCURATELY AND FAIRLY DESCRIBED AS RENOVATE AN EXISTING AMPHITHEATER. THERE APPEAR, THERE APPEARS TO BE A MISCONCEPTION THAT THE AMPHITHEATER IS DILAPIDATED AND AT RISK OF COLLAPSE. THAT IS NOT TRUE. WESTERN WOOD STRUCTURES, THE FIRM THAT BUILT THE GLUE LAMB ARCHES PROVIDED AN EVALUATION OF THE GLUE LAMB BEAMS IN MARCH OF 2023 AND CONCLUDED THAT THE GL LAMB ARCHES WERE DESIGNED FOR 50 PLUS YEARS OF USE, BUT THE MORE LIKELY SCENARIO IS THAT THEY LAST FOR 75 PLUS YEARS WITH MINIMAL EFFORT. IN ADDITION, THE CITY HIRED THE CORE STRUCTURAL GROUP IN FEBRUARY OF LAST YEAR TO PROVIDE A STRUCTURAL EVALUATION OF THE AMPHITHEATER. AND IN THE REPORT SUBMITTED TO THE CITY, THEY DETERMINED THAT THE STRUCTURE REMAINS IN GOOD CONDITION AND IS SUITABLE FOR RESTORATION. IF SURVEY RESPONDENTS ARE NOT INFORMED THAT THE AMPHITHEATER IS ALREADY CONSTRUCTED AND DEEMED STRUCTURALLY SOUND AND SUITABLE FOR RESTORATION BY MULTIPLE PROFESSIONALS, THEY MAY REASONABLY ASSUME THAT THIS IS A PROPOSAL TO BUILD SOMETHING NEW OR IS A COSTLY MAJOR RECONSTRUCTION OF AN EXISTING UNSAFE STRUCTURE, WHICH IS NOT THE CASE. THIS IS A RENOVATION, NOT A RECONSTRUCTION. I BELIEVE THAT INCLUDING THIS CONTEXT WOULD STRENGTHEN THE RELIABILITY OF THE SURVEY RESULTS AS COUNCIL CONSIDERS LONG-TERM DECISIONS REGARDING THE CULTURAL PARK. I SINCERELY HOPE THAT THE FUTURE OF THE AMPHITHEATER WILL BE EVALUATED ON FACTS AND NOT RUMORS OR ASSUMPTIONS. AND I ALSO WANT TO SAY, THIS WASN'T PART OF MY LITTLE SPEECH HERE, BUT I AGREE WITH COUNCILOR FAF. THIS THIS SHOULD REALLY COME DOWN TO A YES OR NO QUESTION. DO YOU SUPPORT AN AMPHITHEATER OR DO YOU NOT? BECAUSE ALL OF YOUR DECISIONS ARE GONNA BE BASED AROUND THAT AMPHITHEATER AND WHETHER IT'S ON THAT SITE OR NOT. AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, JEN. MAY IT BE FOLLOWED BY TIM PERRY. I AM JENNIFER MAY, UH, LIVE IN COVILLE [01:55:01] AND OPERATE A COUPLE DIFFERENT BUSINESSES IN SEDONA. UM, UH, GOOD EVENING MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS. THANK YOU FOR THE CHANCE TO SPEAK WITH YOU TODAY. UH, I WOULD LIKE TO RESPECTFULLY SHARE A FEW THOUGHTS ABOUT QUESTION THREE. IN THE DRAFT SURVEY. THE QUESTION ASKS PEOPLE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN A 1500 PERSON GREEN SPACE THAT WOULD STAY OPEN TO THE PUBLIC AS A PARK OR A COMMERCIAL OUTDOOR LIVE ENTERTAINMENT AMPHITHEATER WITH A CAPACITY OF ABOUT 5,500 PEOPLE. I THINK THE WORDING COULD UNINTENTIONALLY INFLUENCE HOW PEOPLE RESPOND, AND I'D LIKE TO SUGGEST THAT SMALL TWEAK, WHICH I JUST HEARD YOU ALL DO, SO I APPRECIATE THAT VERY MUCH. UH, FIRST THE DESCRIPTIONS DO FEEL A LITTLE BIT UNEVEN ONLY BECAUSE GREEN SPACE OPENED TO THE PUBLIC AS A PARK SOUNDS INVITING AND COMMUNITY FOCUSED. WHILE COMMERCIAL LIVE ENTERTAINMENT SOUNDS MORE BUSINESS LIKE RIGHT OFF THE BAT, THAT DIFFERENCE IN TONE COULD SHAPE OPINIONS BEFORE FOLKS EVEN WEIGH THE ACTUAL OPTION OPTIONS. MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE QUESTION DOESN'T MENTION THAT THE 5,000 SEAT AMPHITHEATER ALREADY EXISTS AT THE SITE. IT IS IMPORTANT TO OUR GROUP THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE THAT HAVE MOVED HERE THAT DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S ALREADY EXISTING. UH, IT'S UNDER THE, UH, OVERGROWTH SO THAT THIS IS NOT ABOUT BUILDING A NEW VENUE FROM SCRATCH. IT'S ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS NEXT WITH A FACILITY THAT'S ALREADY HERE AND ALREADY ENTITLED FOR THAT CAPACITY. UM, SURVEY ANSWERS OFTEN CHANGE WHEN PEOPLE THINK THAT THEIR TAXES IS ON THE LINE, AND I THINK THAT'S A, AN IMPORTANT PART OF THIS. UM, SEDONA CULTURAL PARK 2.0 HAS CONSISTENTLY SAID THAT ANY RENOVATION WOULD BE A HUNDRED PERCENT PRIVATELY FUNDED WITHOUT ANY PUBLIC MONEY INVOLVED. SO WHEN PEOPLE THINK TAXES ARE ON THE LINE, THAT ALWAYS SEEMS TO SKEW RESULTS. GIVEN THAT CLEAR CONTEXT WOULD HELP CAPTURE WHAT THE COMMUNITY REALLY THINKS ABOUT THIS EXISTING SPACE RATHER THAN REACTIONS BASED ON ASSUMPTIONS. ONE QUICK NOTE ON THE SIZE. YES, THE CURRENT SETUP ALLOWS FOR ABOUT 5,000 AS IT SITS RIGHT NOW WITH LAWN SEATING, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT EVERY EVENT HAS TO FILL. ORGANIZERS CAN SET TICKET PRICES AND DECIDE HOW MANY TO SELL, MAYBE 1,501 NIGHT, 3000, THE NEXT WHATEVER FITS THE SHOW AND KEEPS THINGS COMFORTABLE AND MANAGEABLE. THE CAPACITY IS JUST THE UPPER LIMIT. IT'S NOT A REQUIREMENT TO ALWAYS PACK THE HOUSE. I WOULD RESPECTFULLY ASK THAT THE QUESTIONS BE UPDATED TO NOTE THOSE TWO THINGS, THAT THE AMPHITHEATER IS ALREADY BUILT AND AVAILABLE AT THAT SCALE, AND ANY PROPOSED CHANGES WOULD BE PRIVATELY FUNDED. THIS ADDITION WOULD GIVE A MUCH CLEARER AND MORE INFORMED FEEDBACK, FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMUNITY. AND DEREK, I DO AGREE WITH YOU. I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GREAT QUESTION AT THE END. JUST A SIMPLE YES OR NO ON THE AMPHITHEATER AS AN EXISTING AMPHITHEATER WOULD MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE. THANK YOU, TIM. FOLLOWED BY TIM JESSOP. GOOD EVENING COUNSELORS. MY NAME IS TIM PERRY AND I LIVE IN SEDONA. WELL, IT'S REFRESHING FOR ONCE TO SEE THAT THE COUNCIL IS SERVING UP A TEASPOON FULL OF COMMON SENSE WITH THE PROPOSAL TO STRIKE THE WORD COMMERCIAL FROM THE FIRST OF THE, OR THE THIRD PROPOSED SURVEY QUESTION. THAT WORD WAS DELIBERATELY INSERTED IN AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE PEOPLE VOTE AGAINST THE AMPHITHEATER AND IS SIMPLY INACCURATE AS NONE OF THE PROPOSALS SO FAR BROUGHT FORWARD SINCE THE CITY BOUGHT THE PROPERTY HAVE BEEN FOR, FOR-PROFIT OR COMMERCIAL REVIVAL. HOWEVER, QUESTION TWO ALSO RAISES A NUMBER OF ITS OWN QUESTIONS, NAMELY THAT IT HAS SLOTS FOR BOTH HOUSING AND APARTMENTS AND TOWN HOMES NEXT TO EACH OTHER, RETAIL AND COMMERCIAL NEXT TO EACH OTHER, AND, UH, AN EVENT SPACE AND OPEN SPACE NEXT TO EACH OTHER. THOSE ARE REDUNDANT CATEGORIES WHICH WILL ENABLE WHEN THE SURVEY RESULTS COME IN STAFF TO SIMPLY COMPRESS THOSE RELATED CATEGORIES INTO ONE ANOTHER, PRODUCE HIGH SCORES AND SAY, OH, THE PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT THE AMPHITHEATER AFTER ALL, A RESULT THEY WILL HAVE ARRIVED AT BY CHEATING THESE SURVEY QUESTIONS THAT ARE BEING CONSIDERED TONIGHT. ALSO, DON'T CONSIDER ONE OTHER ASPECT OF THE PROBLEM. THERE'S BEEN TALK ABOUT WHETHER PEOPLE DON'T OR DO WANT THE AMPHITHEATER QUESTION IS ALSO DO THEY OR DON'T THEY WANT HOUSING ON THAT PROPERTY? I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WANT THE AMPHITHEATER IF THEY DON'T. IT'S A TRAGEDY FOR THE COMMUNITY, BUT THEIR DECISION. BUT I AM 99% SURE THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THIS COMMUNITY DO NOT WANT A GOVERNMENT HOUSING PROJECT ON THE CULTURAL PARK. AND I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS COMMUNITY WHO WILL BE ORGANIZING TO STOP THAT MYSELF. WHEN THIS WHOLE THING STARTED A FEW YEARS AGO, I COULD HAVE GONE FOR A PROPOSAL FOR A GOOD SOLUTION THAT WOULD COMBINE A COUPLE HUNDRED HOUSING UNITS WITH EVENTS AND ART SPACES. I THOUGHT YOU COULD CREATE A REALLY COOL COMMUNITY THERE. BUT OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS, THIS COUNCIL HAS BEEN SO OBSTINATE, SO ENTRANT, SO CONFIDENT THAT IT AND IT ALONE KNOWS WHAT IS BEST FOR THE PEOPLE OF THIS TOWN THAT YOU HAVE COMPLETELY TURNED ME OFF ANY PROPOSAL THAT WOULD INVOLVE THAT SORT OF COMPROMISE. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OTHERS I SPEAK FOR. I KNOW THERE ARE SOME. I WOULD ALSO CAUTION THE [02:00:01] COUNCIL TO AVOID DOING ANYTHING THAT WOULD FURTHER INTERFERE WITH THE PROGRESS OF THE INITIATIVE THAT WILL TELL US WHAT, WHETHER WHAT PEOPLE WANT ON THE HOUSING QUESTION. IT'S A SIMPLE QUESTION OF PHILOSOPHY. WHEN THE STATE BREAKS THE SOCIAL CONTRACT, THAT CONTRACT IS INVALIDATED AND NO ONE ELSE NEEDS TO CONSIDER THEMSELVES BOUND BY ITS RULES. GIVE US AN HONEST SURVEY AND WE'LL GO FROM THERE. TIM JESSUP, FOLLOWED BY BEN MILLER, LESS POPPING. IT'S WORKING. COUNSELORS MAYOR PLU, MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY. MY NAME IS TIM JESSUP. I'M A 26 YEAR RESIDENT OF SEDONA. AFTER REVIEWING THE PROPOSED QUESTIONS FOR THE NEW PUBLIC SURVEY, I SEE A LOT OF CREATIVE USES FOR THIS LAND. AND I AGREE ANY OF THESE IDEAS WOULD BRING WELCOME AMENITIES TO THE COMMUNITY IF ONLY FOR OUR ENJOYMENT. HOWEVER, ONE ITEM ON THIS SURVEY, ONLY ONE HAS THE CAPACITY TO UPLIFT SEDONAS ECONOMY TO FINALLY ALLEVIATE OUR HISTORIC AND FINANCIALLY PAINFUL SLOW SEASONS. NOW MORE THAN EVER, THE EXISTING 5,000 SEAT AMPHITHEATER HAS VERY REAL POTENTIAL TO TRANSFORM OUR ENTIRE ECONOMY. OUR AMPHITHEATER IS NOT JUST A PUBLIC AMENITY, IT IS A POWERFUL ECONOMIC ENGINE SITTING IDLE, ONE THAT CAN HELP TO RESOLVE MANY OF OUR CITY'S TROUBLESOME AND TIMELY CHALLENGES. AND YET THE SURVEY REMAINS SILENT ON THE EXTRAORDINARY IMPACT ACHIEVABLE WITH THE MOST FAVORABLE ECONOMIC USE OF THIS LAND. I'VE READ THE FEARS OF COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHO VEHEMENTLY OPPOSE THE IDEA, MAINLY ISSUES OF TRAFFIC, PARKING, AND NOISE. I'VE DISCUSSED VERY WELL THOUGHT OUT SOLUTIONS FOR ALL OF THESE ISSUES, PARTICULARLY YEAR-ROUND TRAFFIC CONTROL WITH SOME OF YOU ON THE COUNCIL. I BELIEVE IF ALL OF US CAN WORK TOGETHER AS A TEAM RATHER THAN ADVERSARIES, WE CAN RESOLVE ANY CONCERN RELATED TO RECOMMISSIONING THE EXISTING AMPHITHEATER FOR THE HIGHEST GOOD OF SEDONAS ECONOMY. LASTLY, THIS SURVEY SHOULD NOT BE ISOLATED TO REGISTERED VOTERS ONLY. WE HAVE LOST AND CONTINUE TO LOSE MANY LONG-TERM RESIDENTS TO THE CONTRACTION OF AVAILABLE RENTAL HOUSING AND SOARING PRICES. AFTER SEVERAL DECADES OF CONTRIBUTING TO OUR COMMUNITY, MANY NOW LIVE IN NEARBY CITIES AND TOWNS. THESE ARE SOME OF THE MOST AFFECTED AND UPROOTED DUE TO OUR FALTERING HOUSING CONUNDRUM. THESE PEOPLE STAND TO BENEFIT THE MOST FROM THE POSITIVE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF A WELL-MANAGED AMPHITHEATER. MANY OF THEM WOULD MOVE BACK HOME TO SEDONA IF THEY COULD, BUT MOST CERTAINLY, IT IS ONLY FAIR THAT DISPLACED LONGTIME COMMUNITY MEMBERS BE INCLUDED IN THE RESPONSE TO THIS SURVEY. IN CLOSING, I'D LIKE TO ASK THIS COUNSEL TO APPROVE A LETTER OF INTENT SO THAT WE MAY DEEPEN OUR INVESTIGATION INTO THE PRIVATE FUNDING OF THE ONE OPTION ON THIS SURVEY THAT CAN STRENGTHEN OUR CITY'S ECONOMY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. TIM. BEN, FOLLOWED BY ROBERT COSTER. I, UH, GOOD EVENING, UH, MADAM MAYOR, MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL. UH, MY NAME IS BEN MILLER. I LIVE IN SCOTTSDALE, ARIZONA. UH, I WAS RAISED IN THE SEDONA VERDE VALLEY AREA. UH, MOST OF MY CAREER SPENT HERE IN SEDONA IN THE REAL ESTATE BUSINESS. AND, UM, UH, I, I WROTE TO THE COUNCIL SOME WRITTEN COMMENTS A WEEK OR SO AGO, AND I'M JUST, INSTEAD OF GOING BACK THROUGH ALL THAT, I JUST WANT TO TOUCH ON A COUPLE THINGS. ONE, UH, ITEM, I THINK MOST IMPORTANTLY, AS IT RELATES TO NOT ONLY THE OPINION POLL, BUT THE OVERALL VIABILITY OF THE AMPHITHEATER, I THINK THERE, THERE ABSOLUTELY NEEDS TO BE A INDEPENDENT FEASIBILITY STUDY ON, ON AN AMPHITHEATER AND THE LIKELIHOOD FOR SUCCESS, HOWEVER BIG IT IS. UM, I'VE GOT MY OPINION. I WORK WITH PEOPLE IN PHOENIX RIGHT NOW THAT ARE VERY INTERESTED IN DOING A MASTER PLAN, [02:05:01] UH, AT THE CULTURAL PARK. AND THEY HAVE THEIR OPINIONS, THEY HAVE PEOPLE THAT THEY'VE WORKED WITH THAT SAYS IT CAN CERTAINLY SURVIVE AT AN X SEAT. BUT I THINK IN ORDER TO GET TO THE, TO THE MORE OF A SPECIFIC IDEA ON WHAT A INDEPENDENT FEASIBILITY STUDY WILL REFLECT. I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT. AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO DO THAT PRIOR TO AN OPINION POLL IN ORDER TO GIVE THE COMMUNITY SOMEWHAT OF AN ACCURATE IDEA FROM A FEASIBILITY STUDY ABOUT, HEY, THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. THIS IS WHAT IT POTENTIALLY CAN SURVIVE BY BEING SEATS FOR ALL THESE DIFFERENT REASONS. AND SO I THINK THAT'S CRITICAL BEFORE WE DO THE OPINION POLL IN THE AMPHITHEATER. UM, I ALSO THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT, UM, THE CITY COUNCIL INCLUDES THE AMPHITHEATER AND ALL THE OTHER POTENTIAL ELEMENTS OF A MASTER PLAN DEVELOPMENT IN AN RFP. UH, AT SOME POINT, I DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO, UH, CREATE INDIVIDUAL, UM, AGREEMENTS OR NEGOTIATIONS WITH INDIVIDUAL FOLKS FOR INDIVIDUAL PARTS OF THE PARK. ASIDE FROM THE SEDONA FILM FESTIVAL, I THINK PAT AND HIS GROUP HAS CERTAINLY EARNED THE OPPORTUNITY TO, UM, TO NEGOTIATE DIRECTLY NOW WITH WHAT THEY NEED. AND I'VE TALKED TO PAT ABOUT WHERE HE NEEDS TO PUT IT AND ALL THAT. SO I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S A VERY SITE SPECIFIC LOCATION. UM, BUT I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND THAT THE COUNCIL INCLUDES AS MUCH RESEARCH INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE FOR THE PUBLIC TO COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND WHAT SOME OF THE BILITIES ARE WITH THE DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THE, UH, OVERALL MASTER PLAN, SPECIFICALLY THE AMPHITHEATER. UH, AGAIN, I'VE, AS I'VE TOLD COUNCIL AND WRITTEN COMMENTS, UH, THAT PROPERTY IS, HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE UNBELIEVABLE. UH, THE VIEW CORRIDORS FROM THE MIDWAY UP AND THE EXISTING AMPHITHEATER TO THE TOP ARE UNMATCHED. THE CHALLENGE I'VE HAD IS WHEN I WAS ON THE BOARD OF THE CULTURAL PARK IN THE EARLY TWO THOUSANDS, WE HAD OUR BOXES AND HERB AND EVERYBODY ELSE WAS THERE AS WELL. AND I'D ALWAYS TAKE MY FOLKS TO THE TOP AND I SAID, THIS IS THE VIEW. 'CAUSE WHEN YOU'RE SITTING IN FRONT OF THE STAGE, YOU DON'T HAVE A VIEW. YOU GOT A PEAKY VIEW OF A PEAKY, A LITTLE VIEW OVER HERE TO THE LEFT, BUT YOU DON'T MAXIMIZE THE OPPORTUNITY OF THE VIEW QUARTERS AT THE PARK. AND WITH THAT, I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND EFFORT, UH, AND, UH, COMING TO A RESOLUTION ON WHAT TO DO WITH THIS THING. THANKS SO MUCH. THANK YOU, BEN. OKAY. ROBERT, FOLLOWED BY JOTA. I GET THAT IN BEFORE I WASTE A COUPLE SECONDS. SO, UH, MY NAME IS ROBERT KOSTER. I LIVE HERE IN SEDONA. UH, I REPRESENT, UH, THE INITIATIVE, UH, WITH SOME VERY BRIGHT PEOPLE THAT HELP PUT IT TOGETHER. UM, AND ONLY THE INITIATIVE IN TERMS OF NO RESIDENTIAL THERE. A LOT OF OUR THOUGHTS ARE VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT THE, UH, CULTURAL PARK TEAM HAS. UM, I KNOW THEY'RE LOOKING TO TRY TO PRESERVE THE AMPHITHEATER. WE SUPPORT THAT. WE JUST DO NOT SUPPORT ANY RESIDENTIAL THERE. AT THE LAST MEETING THAT WE WERE HERE, WE TALKED ABOUT SURVEYS AND BIAS. AND I, I, I COULDN'T HELP BUT SHAKE MY HEAD. I MEAN, WHAT YOU HAVE IS YOU'RE CHASING SOMETHING YOU DON'T, DON'T KNOW YET WHAT YOU'RE CHASING FOR TO GET THE ANSWERS. UH, AND IT IS, IF I WERE TO SAY, IS THERE BIAS THERE? THE ANSWER IS ABSOLUTELY YES. UM, AND, UH, I, I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF CREDENCE ON WHAT THE RESULTS WILL HAVE. YOU DID A SURVEY LAST YEAR, YOU DID A SURVEY, LOOKING TO DO A SURVEY. AGAIN, IT'S LIKE KIDS GOING TO TALK TO THEIR MOM AND GETTING AN ANSWER THEY DON'T LIKE, OR THE DAD AND THE ANSWER THEY DON'T LIKE, AND THEN THEY GO TO THE OTHER ONE AND ASK IT AGAIN, HOPING TO GET AN ANSWER THAT THEY THINK IS FAVORABLE SO THEY CAN MAKE A RULING. I, I THINK LAST YEAR WE TALKED, UH, THE AVA PIE TITLE, UH, ABOUT, UM, WHAT WE REALLY WOULD LIKE TO SEE. UH, AND I THINK HOLLY, YOU'D MENTIONED, YOU'D SAID IT'D BE GREAT IF WE CAN GET IT TO A, A VOTE BY THE COMMUNITY, UH, HERE. UM, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER I'M MIS PHRASING THAT, BUT WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY, AT LEAST ON THE RESIDENTIAL OR NON-RESIDENTIAL TO GET THAT. WE HAVE AN INITIATIVE THAT'S WELL OVER A THOUSAND SIGNATURES. UH, THERE WERE SOME QUESTIONS ON THE NUMBERS. WE ARE GONNA ACCOUNT FOR THAT, AND WE ARE GONNA SUBMIT IT. UH, WE WANT THAT TO GO FORWARD WITH NO INTERFERENCE TO BE VOTED BY THE PEOPLE OF THIS CITY, BECAUSE AFTER ALL, YOU ALL SERVE THE PEOPLE HERE. UH, WE DON'T SERVE YOU, YOU SERVE US. AND THE BEST INTEREST IS SERVED BY GETTING IT ON THE BALLOT AND GETTING A DECISION BY THEM. AND THEN GOING FORWARD, WE DO BELIEVE THAT CULTURAL [02:10:01] PARK SHOULD BE USED FOR THE BENEFIT OF PEOPLE AND VISITORS TO THIS COMMUNITY FOR CULTURAL ACTIVITIES, SUPPORTING PATRICK, SUPPORTING THE AMPHITHEATER, SUPPORTING A WELLNESS OR, OR, OR, UM, A COMMUNITY CENTER. BUT WE ALSO WANNA MAKE SURE THE PARKS, THE WALK, THE HIKING, UM, TRAILS REMAIN UNCHANGED. UM, AGAIN, MY MY MY MY THING ABOUT THE, UH, SURVEY IS YOU'RE THROWING GOOD MONEY AFTER BAD. HOW MANY TIMES YOU WANT TO ASK THE QUESTION, HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU WANNA RUN BACK TO EITHER THE, THE FATHER OR THE A MOTHER TO, TO TRY TO GET AN ANSWER YOU LIKE, AND THEN MAKE A DECISION BASED UPON DO YOU KEEP IT OR NOT? THE AMPHITHEATER, YOU, YOU HAVE THE BEST SURVEY THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN, THANK YOU. WHICH IS PUTTING IT FORWARD. AND ON THE ONE LAST QUE ONE LAST ITEM AS FAR AS, UM, A, A QUESTION THAT I THINK YOU HAD POSED ABOUT REPLACING, UM, UH, PEOPLE IN THE COUNCIL, UH, WE DO HAVE SOME VERY GOOD CANDIDATES COMING UP, AND THAT'S A VERY REAL POSSIBILITY BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WILL BE, I NEED TO STOP YOU, ROBERT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I KNOW. OKAY. JOTA FOLLOWED BY SEAN SMITH AND THEN KATHY HOWE. GOOD EVENING, UH, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. MY NAME'S JOTA WINTER AND I LIVE IN SEDONA. I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT QUESTION TWO. UM, I'D LIKE TO ADDRESS THE IMPORTANCE RANKING QUESTION. THE SURVEY ASKED RESPONDENTS TO RATE HOUSING, RESTAURANTS, RETAIL, COMMERCIAL SPACE, EVENT, LAWN, COMMUNITY RECREATION CENTER NOW, AND AN AMPHITHEATER AS THOUGH THEY ARE ALL COMPATIBLE CATEGORIES. THEY ARE NOT EQUIVALENT ITEMS. SOME ARE LAND USES, SOME ARE BUSINESS TYPES. ONE IS A FULLY CONSTRUCTED 5,000 SEAT INFRASTRUCTURE. ASSET HOUSING IS LISTED TWICE, HOUSING AND APARTMENTS AND TOWN HOMES. WHILE THE AMPHITHEATER APPEARS ONLY ONCE, WHEN EVALUATING HOUSING COMPONENTS, ESPECIALLY A RESPONDENT'S CURRENT LIVING SITUATION, IS A POWERFUL PREDICTOR OF HOW THEY WILL ANSWER IT IS STANDARD PRACTICE TO COLLECT BACKGROUND DATA, SUCH AS, DO YOU RENT OR OWN? DO YOU LIVE IN SEDONA FULL TIME? ARE YOU EMPLOYED IN SEDONA? DO YOU OWN A BUSINESS IN SEDONA? FOR EXAMPLE, A RENTER FACING HOUSING INSECURITY MAY RENT MAY RATE HOUSING AS VERY IMPORTANT. A HOMEOWNER WITH NO HOUSING PRESSURE MAY RATE IT LOWER. A SEASONAL RESIDENT MAY VIEW IT DIFFERENTLY. A BUSINESS OWNER MAY PRIORITIZE IT HIGHLY. IF YOU DO NOT SEGMENT RESPONSES BY LIVING SITUATION, YOU CANNOT INTERPRET THE MEANING OF IMPORTANCE. RATINGS ACCURATELY, STRUCTURALLY, THAT FRAGMENTS CERTAIN PRIORITIES WHILE CONSOLIDATING OTHERS. MEANINGFUL INSIGHT INTO COMMUNITY. SENTIMENT ABOUT THE AMPHITHEATER CANNOT BE OBTAINED BY BEARING IT WITHIN A GENERALIZED MIXED USE, IMPORTANT LIST. IT REQUIRES DIRECT INDEPENDENT EVALUATION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU MAYOR, COUNCIL AND STAFF. MY NAME IS SEAN SMITH, AND I'M A RESIDENT OF SEDONA. THE SURVEY NEEDS TO SERVE THOSE WHO WANT A PARK ONLY AND THOSE WHO WANT TO LEAVE THE LAND FALLOW. THOSE TWO GROUPS HAVE BEEN VERY VOCIFEROUS, BUT IT'S HARD TO SEE HOW THOSE SENTIMENTS ARE REPRESENTED IN QUESTION ONE. THERE DOESN'T, THERE DIDN'T SEEM TO BE MUCH SUPPORT FROM COUNCIL FOR THE HIGHEST DENSITY HOUSING PLANS. SO STRIKING THIS QUESTION MAKES SENSE, BUT QUESTION ONE, IF INCLUDED SHOULD INCLUDE THE AMOUNT OF LAND NEEDED FOR 100, 200, 400 LEVEL, UH, HOUSING UNITS. USE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO NOW TO SEE WHAT LEVEL OF DENSITY OF HOUSING IS SUPPORTED. KNOWING THE PERCENTAGE OF LAND NEEDED, INCLUDING FOR PARKING, IS GOING TO BE KEY TO ARRIVE AT THE DENSITY THE COMMUNITY WILL SUPPORT. FOR QUESTION TWO, WE NEED A PARK OPTION AS WELL AS A LEAVE FALLOW OPTION. I DO, I I AGREE. DISAMBIGUATING THE OPTIONS IS IMPORTANT, SUCH AS SAYING SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING VERSUS JUST HOUSING. QUESTION THREE, YOU SHOULD STRUCTURE LIKE QUESTION TWO, WHERE PEOPLE CAN CHOOSE FROM A RANGE OF SEAT NUMBERS, 1000, 2000, 5,000 PLUS. I AGREE TALKING ABOUT THE COST AT THIS TIME IS PROBLEMATIC, BUT IT'D BE A WASTED OPPORTUNITY TO NOT INCLUDE A QUESTION TO THOSE WHO SUPPORT AN AMPHITHEATER AS TO WHETHER THERE IS SUPPORT FOR THE USE OF PUBLIC MONEY SUPPORTING AN OPERATING PLAN IN CASE THERE IS BROAD SUPPORT FOR A 5,000 PLUS SEAT VENUE. [02:15:01] WE HEARD FROM THE CP, UH, SCP 2.0 GROUP, THE VENUE GROUP, THAT THERE IS NO ECONOMICALLY VIABLE BUSINESS PLAN UNDER A FULL DEBT LOAD. SO WHY HAVE ANOTHER LATER SURVEY TO DETERMINE IF RESIDENTS SUPPORT USING PUBLIC MONEY FOR A LARGER PLAN? THANK YOU. I'M MUCH SHORTER. SORRY ABOUT THAT. UM, KATHY HOWE, UM, MAYOR HOLLY COUNCILORS STAFF. ALL I WANNA SAY IS THAT I'VE LISTENED FOR A LONG TIME ABOUT THIS ISSUE. I CLOSED ON MY HOUSE BACK IN 2006 ON JANUARY 2ND, BUT I CAME BACK TO ARIZONA AFTER YEARS AND AFTER HAVING ATTENDED ONE OF THE AMPHITHEATER EVENTS, I CAME BACK PARTIALLY FOR THAT REASON BECAUSE SEDONA WAS SOMETHING VERY SPECIAL TO ME. IT'S VERY SPECIAL TO MOST OF US. I'M GONNA SAY THIS, AND I DON'T MEAN TO OFFEND ANYONE. YOU ALL KNOW ME WELL ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT I HAVE MY POINTS OF VIEW. I'M TRYING TO SAY THAT I TRULY BELIEVE THAT WHEN YOU HIRE A LOBBYING FIRM, ONE OF THE TOP ONES IN ARIZONA, YOU'RE DISINGENUOUS. IF YOU WANNA POLL THE PEOPLE, HIRE A POLLING GROUP. THE PUBLIC IS BEGINNING TO BELIEVE THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO PUSH THEM TO CERTAIN ANSWERS. AND THAT'S THE REFLECTION. I'M JUST TRYING TO SAY, MAKE IT SIMPLE. DO YOU WANT THE AMPHITHEATER OR DO YOU NOT? EVERYONE ELSE HAS SAID WHAT I'M SAYING. THANKS. OKAY, WE'RE BACK TO COUNSEL. I'M SORRY, I FORGOT YOUR NAME AS SOON AS YOU SAID IT, IT JUST LEFT MY BRAIN. TYLER, OUR CONSULTANT'S NAME. PAUL. PAUL. OKAY. THANK YOU. PAUL . DO YOU, UH, DO YOU WANNA REACT TO ANY OF THE COMMENTS FROM THE, FROM THE PUBLIC? I, SPECIFICALLY MYSELF, WANTED TO HEAR ABOUT THE DEMOGRAPHICS PIECE. I THOUGHT THAT WAS KIND OF COMPELLING. DO YOU ASK THOSE QUESTIONS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE ANSWERING THE SURVEY? UH, WE HAVE IN THE PAST IT, IT COMES DOWN TO THE OVERALL BUDGET OF THE COST OF THE SURVEY. THE SURVEY IS LIMITED TO THE NUMBER OF QUESTIONS THAT WE HAVE. IT'S THREE QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW. IT'S TECHNICALLY 10. IT'S TECHNICALLY 11 QUESTIONS BECAUSE, WELL 12 NOW THAT WE ADDED, UH, THE RECREATION CENTER AS WELL, BECAUSE IT'S THE NUMBER OF QUESTIONS THAT YOU ASKED THAT DETERMINES THE BUDGET OF, OF THE OVERALL SURVEY. UH, WE WILL GET DEMOGRAPHICS, AGE PARTY, GENDER, REGION, ZIP CODE THAT'S REFLECTIVE OF THE OVERALL REGISTERED VOTER POPULATION. I KNOW WE JUST HAD 10 COMMENTS, UH, FROM THE PUBLIC. THERE ARE OVER 7,000 VOTERS. SO WE JUST GOT COMMENT FROM 0.01% OF YOUR ELECTORATE. UH, MY GOAL IS TO GET A BROADER, UH, VERSION OF THE ELECTORATE TO GET AN UNDERSTANDING OF MAYBE THE FOLKS THAT CAN'T SHOW UP AT A MEETING LIKE THIS AND, AND GET THEIR GAUGE OF THE OVERALL, UM, UH, QUESTIONS. AS, AS FOR THE, THE, THE TYPE OF FIRM THAT WE RUN, WE ARE ACTUALLY WELL RENOWNED FOR OUR SURVEY RESEARCH. WE DID OVER 30,000 HOURS OF POLLING LAST YEAR ALONE FOR, UH, WE WERE IN THE SURVEY FIELD MORE THAN HALF OF THE YEAR, OF THE WEEKS OF THE YEAR, UH, WITH D DIFFERENT STATEWIDE, REGIONAL AND LOCAL SURVEYS. IT'S ONE OF THE BEST THINGS THAT WE DO. AND I WOULD PUT OUR DATA UP AGAINST ANYONE ELSE. AND OUR GOAL, WE HAVE NOT BEEN HIRED BY THE CITY TO DO ANYTHING ELSE BESIDES PROVIDE, UH, ACCURATE DATA THAT REFLECTS THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE BEING ASKED. SO YOU WILL GET SOME GENERAL DEMOGRAPHIC DATA. YOU'RE ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS. YES, WE WILL GET SOME GENERAL DEMOGRAPHIC DATA, BUT WE ARE NOT ASKING LENGTH OF RESIDENCE OR OWN A BUSINESS OR OWN A RENT AT THIS POINT. OTHERWISE, THAT WOULD INCREASE THE COST OF THE OVERALL SURVEY. AND MAYOR, IF THAT ENDS UP BEING IMPORTANT TO THE COUNCIL, YOU KNOW, WE CAN AMEND THE CONTRACT, WE CAN ADJUST THE BUDGET FOR THE PROJECT. WE WANNA MAKE SURE WE GET WHAT YOU NEED. THE THE OTHER THING THAT STRUCK ME WAS THIS QUESTION ABOUT THE, ABOUT THE AMPHITHEATER. THAT IT, IT DOES EXIST. IT DOES NEED TO BE RENOVATED, BUT IT DOES EXIST. DO YOU THINK THAT THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE QUESTION? THE, THE QUESTION WOULD BE IS IF THE PLAN IS TO KEEP IT WHERE IT IS, AND IF THAT IS CONSIDERED A RENOVATION, AND THAT'S AN ANSWER, THAT'S AN ANSWER FOR YOU TO, TO DETERMINE NOT ME, BUT YOU, IF WE ADDED THAT, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IT [02:20:02] IF, IF, IF PLAN IN INCLUDES A RENOVATION IN A TRADITIONAL DEFINITION OF THE FACILITY. UM, BUT IF YOU ARE MOVING THE, THE, THE AMPHITHEATER OR IF IT WAS GOING TO BE IN A DIFFERENT PORTION OF THE PROPERTY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, UM, I I WOULD NOT INCLUDE EXISTING IF THAT'S IN FACT THE CASE. THE, THE PROPOSAL IS TO RENOVATE THE EXISTING STRUCTURE SO IT WOULDN'T BE MOVED. WE DON'T KNOW THAT, RIGHT? I MEAN, YEAH, I DON'T KNOW THE DEFINITION OF RENOVATION. YEAH, I MEAN, RIGHT. I I WOULD REALLY HATE TO GET INTO THIS CONVERSATION. I, I, I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST PERSONALLY, AND YOU CAN DISAGREE WITH ME. UH, I THOUGHT IT WAS A, IT WAS COMPELLING TO ME THAT IF PEOPLE THOUGHT THERE ARE, IF YOU GO TO ANY EVENT, YOU ASK PEOPLE, HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED HERE? MY EXPERIENCE IS HALF THE ROOM IS LIVED HERE FOR 25 YEARS OR MORE, AND HALF THE ROOM IS LIVED HERE FOR FIVE YEARS OR LESS. SO I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE NOT AWARE THAT THERE IS AN EXISTING AMPHITHEATER AND THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RENOVATING AN EXISTING STRUCTURE AND BUILDING SOMETHING FROM SCRATCH. UH, THAT WAS A COMPELLING, UH, TESTIMONY TO ME. MAY NOT BE TO YOU. THEY MAY, I WILL SAY IN THE INTRODUCTION, IT DOES SAY ON THE SITE OF THE FORMER CULTURAL PARK AMPHITHEATER THAT OPERATED FROM 2000 TO 2003. SO IT IS INCLUDED IN THE SURVEY, UH, IN THE OUTSET. I THINK THAT, BUT IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY THE CURRENT QUESTION. THREE IS NOT FRAMED AS A RENOVATION, IT'S JUST A FRAME IN EXISTENCE OR NOT EXISTENCE. MAYOR DEREK, I THINK WE SHOULD PERHAPS CHANGE THE WORDING AND THE PREAMBLE OR THE INTRODUCTION TO SAY IT THERE IS THAT BECAUSE IT, IT IS A LITTLE AMBIGUOUS. IT SAYS IT'S THE SIDE OF THE FORMER AMPUTATE. IT'S LIKE, WELL, IT'S OKAY FORMER IN THE SENSE THAT IT'S NO, NO LONGER OPERATIONAL, BUT NOT FORMER IN THE SENSE IT'S STILL THERE. SO I GET, WE COULD SAY, YOU KNOW, THE SITE OF THE AMPHITHEATER THAT WAS IN OPERATION FROM WHATEVER TO WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, AND IN NEED OF RENOVATION OR, OR SOMETHING JUST TO PLANT THE SEED THAT YES, IT IS THERE NOW HOW MUCH RENOVATION? I DON'T KNOW. UM, BUT I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO, YOU KNOW, FOR PEOPLE TO KNOW IT'S THERE. I DON'T THINK THE DEMOGRAPHICS ARE TERRIBLY RELEVANT. I MEAN, IF YOU'RE A REGISTERED VOTER IN THE CITY OF SEDONA, I REPRESENT YOU WHETHER YOU'RE A RENTER, AN OWNER, A BUSINESS OWNER, WHATEVER. SO I MEAN, I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE GAINED FROM HAVING THE DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION OTHER THAN JUST, OKAY, NOW WE KNOW WHO ANSWERED THE SURVEY, BUT I'M NOT GONNA GIVE SOMEBODY MORE WEIGHT BECAUSE THEY LIVED HERE 25 YEARS VERSUS SOMEBODY WHO'S LIVED HERE FOR FIVE. THEY'RE ENTITLED TO THE SAME REPRESENTATION AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED. SO I, I DON'T FIND THE AMP THE DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT, BUT I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO SET THE STAGE, NO PUN INTENDED, THAT YEAH, THERE IS SOMETHING OUT THERE. SO I, BUT I THINK I WOULD PUT THAT IN THE INTRODUCTION. OKAY. KATHY, I THINK THE INTRODUCTION ALREADY STATES SOME OF THAT BECAUSE IT SAYS WESTERN GATEWAY IS A 41 ACRE PROPERTY OWNED BY THE CITY OF SO, AND SITE OF THE FORMER CULTURAL PARK AMPHITHEATER THAT OPERATED FROM 2000 TO 2003. SO IT'S ALREADY TELLING YOU THAT IT'S THERE, IT'S ALREADY TELLING YOU THAT IT'S NOT CURRENTLY OPERATIONAL. UM, SO I DON'T, I I THINK THAT IT'S FOR ME THAT IT'S COVERED. BUT I MEAN, YOU CAN READ FORMER AND DIFFERENT, SOME PEOPLE READ THAT AS FORMERLY THE LOCATION OF THE AMPHITHEATER. I'M JUST TELLING YOU HOW PEOPLE, I MEAN, I JUST THINK WE SHOULD BE UNAMBIGUOUS. SO IT'S CLEAR THERE IS A STRUCTURE. UNLESS YOU'VE BEEN LIVING UNDER A ROCK. I THINK ANYBODY WHO'S BEEN LIVING IN SEDONA FOR MORE THAN A COUPLE YEARS KNOWS THAT IT'S OUT THERE. BUT EVEN IF THEY DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT, THEY'RE STILL ENTITLED TO AN OPINION. BUT I DO THINK IT WAS A GOOD IDEA AND I DON'T KNOW, BUT I THINK WE JUST MASSAGED THE WORDING A LITTLE BIT. UM, I THINK IT'S ALMOST THERE. I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO GET INTO WHETHER IT WOULD BE SUPPORTED WITH TAX DOLLARS OR NOT. 'CAUSE WE DON'T KNOW, RIGHT? BUT WE DO KNOW THERE'S AN AMPHITHEATER OUT THERE, AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS PROPOSING THAT WE RELOCATED UP THE HILL OR ANYTHING. I MEAN, IT'S JUST THERE AND IT'S EITHER GONNA BE RESTORED IN PLACE OR IT'S GONNA BE DEMOLISHED IN PLACE. SO THAT'S WHAT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT ENGINEERING OR MIGHT HA NEED BE NEEDED OR HAPPEN OR ANY RELOCATION OF A PART OF IT. SOME OF IT WE KNOW AND SOME OF IT WE DON'T UNTIL WE ACTUALLY GET FURTHER INTO IT. SO I JUST, I'M JUST WORRIED ABOUT GOING DOWN A PATH [02:25:01] OF MAKING ASSUMPTIONS. THAT'S ALL. WE HAVE A PROPOSAL, WE'VE HAD THAT PROPOSAL FOR GOOD PERIOD OF TIME, AND WE KNOW WHAT THE PROPOSAL SAYS WE NEED, WHICH IS TO RENOVATE AN EXISTING STRUCTURE. CHARLOTTE, DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION? UM, AT FIRST I WAS THINKING IF INSERTING THE WORD PRIVATELY RENOVATED IN FRONT OF, WITHIN THE QUESTION, IF I COULD BORROW YOUR SHEET AGAIN. THANK YOU. UM, I SUPPORT A PRIVATELY RENOVATED OUTDOOR LIVE ENTERTAINMENT AMPHITHEATER, BLAH, BLAH. BUT THE MORE I THINK ABOUT IT, WE'RE WE ARE STRIKING WORDS THAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH FUNDING. UH, WE'RE NOT SAYING COMMERCIAL TO, TO, TO ASSURE PEOPLE THAT IT WOULD BE PRIVATELY RENOVATED, PERHAPS. I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT'S AN ASSURANCE WE CAN MAKE AT THIS POINT EITHER. SO I REALLY, UM, WHILE I UNDERSTAND YOUR INTEREST IN TRYING TO EMPHASIZE THAT, I'M, I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT DOESN'T GIVE AN ASSURANCE THAT WE CAN'T SUSTAIN NECESSARILY. SO I, I THINK WHAT'S IN THE PREAMBLE IS ENOUGH. UM, AND I WOULD PROBABLY NOT INSERT ANYTHING ABOUT RENOVATED OR PRIVATE OR, AND I WOULD STRIKE THE COMMERCIAL. WHAT ABOUT I SUPPORT REVIVING THE OUTDOOR AMPHITHEATER? I MEAN, I THINK THERE'S A DIFFERENCE FOR PEOPLE. THAT'S FINE, BUT NOTHING THAT SUGGESTS WHERE THE MONEY'S COMING FROM. NO, I AGREE WITH THAT COMPLETELY. IT, I THINK THAT THE POINT WAS THAT HERB MADE WAS THE IDEA OF FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW, AND BELIEVE ME, PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT IT EXISTS. I KNOW THAT YOU THINK THAT THEY'RE MAYBE BEHIND A, THEY TRULY DON'T. I'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE AND THEY WERE NOT HERE THEN THEY DON'T KNOW. THEY DON'T LIVE IN THAT PART OF TOWN, AND THEY JUST DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S AN AMPHITHEATER THERE. I MEAN, YOU CAN SEE IT FROM RED ROCK HIGH SCHOOL, BUT THEY DON'T KNOW THAT IT EXISTS OR WHAT IT WAS. SO IF WE, SO THE POINT I THINK WAS THAT IT'S REVIVING THE STRUCTURE AS OPPOSED TO BUILDING SOMETHING BRAND NEW. YEAH, KATHY ACTUALLY USING THE WORD REVIVING IS SOMETHING THAT I COULD GO WITH. I WOULDN'T WANNA PUT RENOVATING OR SOMETHING, BUT I SUPPORT REVIVING THE OUTDOOR LIVE ENTERTAINMENT AMATE THAT I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE TO ME. WHAT ABOUT, WHAT ABOUT RESTORING AND REVIVING? I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY QUESTION THAT IT HAS. IT'S NOT JUST A MATTER OF FLIPPING US, TURNING THE LIGHTS ON AND GREAT, WE'VE GOT AN AMPHITHEATER, RIGHT? I DON'T, I MEAN, DO YOU GUYS DISPUTE THAT IT HAS TO BE RESTORED, RESTORING RESTORED? DO YOU THINK RESTORE IS FAIR? RESTORING IS FINE. RESTORE REVIVE, I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND AGAINST REVIVE. I THINK REVIVE HAS VALUE TO IT. I THINK IT PLACES A, UH, IT IS A WORD WITH A TON OF, UH, EXTRA BIAS ADDED BEHIND IT. I THINK YOU CAN USE RESTORE. WHAT ABOUT, I THINK THOSE ARE BOTH DEFINABLE TERMS. UH, REVIVAL HAS, UH, VALUE TO IT. THAT GOES BEYOND A FACTUAL STATEMENT. WHAT ABOUT RESTORE AND REOPEN? IT DOESN'T HAVE THAT UPLIFTING SORT OF CONNOTATION. WHAT DOES REOPEN? I DON'T KNOW THAT REOPEN ADS MUCH THERE. YOU'RE GONNA RESTORE IT FOR, TO REOPEN. WELL, BUT I MEAN, BUT I'M TRYING TO RESTORE, BUT I'M JUST, I'M TRYING TO FIND A WORD THAT'S REVIVED. RESTORE THAT'S REVIVED WITHOUT SOUNDING ALL CHEERY AND RESTORE HAS. OKAY. I'M FINE WITH THAT. YEAH. MY, MY CONCERN WITH REOPEN IS THAT GIVES PEOPLE THE IMPRESSION IT'S GOING TO BE OPERATED JUST AS IT WAS IN THE PAST. IF YOU ARE REOPENING SOMETHING, IF YOU, IF YOU REOPEN A RESTAURANT, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU WOULD EXPECT THE RESTAURANT TO BE THE SAME RESTAURANT AS IT WAS IN THE PAST. UM, IF IT'S NOT GOING TO BE OPERATED THE SAME WAY, OR IF THERE'S A CHANGE IN MANAGEMENT, WHICH IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE MIGHT BE, I THINK REOPEN ALSO CREATES AN UNINTENDED BIAS. I THINK RESTORING OR RENOVATING IS PROBABLY YOUR BEST. I I THINK WE HAVE CONSENSUS UP HERE, RIGHT? FOR RESTORING, YEAH, RESTORE, RESTORE SUPPORT, RESTORING THE OUTDOOR LIVE ENTERTAINMENT AMPHITHEATER WITH A BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. I KNOW THE PUBLIC COMMENT'S OVER, BUT I'M LOOKING IN THE AUDIENCE, THE PEOPLE NODDING THEIR HEADS AT THE WORD RESTORE. SO I THINK RESTORE IS. OKAY. SO WE'RE BACK TO, I THINK TWO, TWO QUESTIONS. ONE IS, DO WE HAVE THESE TWO OPTIONS OR DO WE JUST ASK THE QUESTION ABOUT THE AMPHITHEATER? AND I HEARD FROM THE PUBLIC, THEY THINK WE SHOULD JUST ASK THE ONE QUESTION. THAT'S MY PREFERENCE. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN MY PREFERENCE. THEY [02:30:01] POINTED TO YOU. THEY DID, SAID THEY DID, AGREED WITH YOU. YOU USED YOUR NAME. MM-HMM . I KNOW THAT. AND NOT IN A NEGATIVE WAY. , THAT'LL COME LATER. I JUST WANNA GET THE MOST BANG FOR OUR BUCK. WE'RE, WE'RE SENDING OUT A SURVEY TO ALL, UH, REGISTERED VOTERS. LET'S ASK A FEW QUESTIONS. AT LEAST THAT'S MY THOUGHT. YEAH. ON THIS QUESTION THREE FOR ME. DID I CUT YOU OFF? I'M SORRY. GO AHEAD. ON THIS QUESTION THREE FOR ME, I, AGAIN, I WANT THE BULLET POINTS THAT ARE IN AND AS WE JUST AMENDED THEM, AND I DON'T MIND PUTTING IN NEITHER, UM, OR BOTH. THAT THAT'S FINE, BUT I DON'T WANT TO CUT THAT DOWN FURTHER. I THINK IT'S FAR AS THE OPTIONS GO. THAT'S WHAT QUESTION TWO IS. QUESTION THREE IS REALLY ABOUT THE AMPHITHEATER. I, I, I AGREE WITH COUNCILOR FAF. I DO TOO. SO I THINK WE HAVE ROBERT, WE CAN'T PROBABLY JUST TRY I DID LAST TIME TO WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE DOES. TEXT ME. . I'M KIDDING. . UH, SO I THINK WE'RE LIKE THREE, THREE TO TWO ON THIS. YOU WANNA ARGUE? I'D LIKE TO KNOW HOW THAT QUESTION WILL NOW READ EXACTLY. PLEASE. WELL, I, I DON'T HAVE IT EXACTLY IN FRONT OF ME BECAUSE WE'RE EDITING ON THE FLY, BUT THE IDEA WOULD BE, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A PROPOSAL TO RESTORE THE OUTDOOR LIVE ENTERTAINMENT AMPHITHEATER WITH A CAPACITY OF APPROXIMATELY 5,500 PEOPLE TO LOS TO HOST PUBLIC GATHERINGS AND STAGE PERFORMANCES. KNOWING JUST WHAT YOU KNOW RIGHT NOW, UH, WHICH OF THE FOLLOWING I SUPPORT THAT PROPOSAL, I DO NOT SUPPORT, OR I, YOU KNOW, DO KNOWING JUST WHAT YOU KNOW RIGHT NOW, DO YOU SUPPORT OR OPPOSE THAT PROPOSAL? AND IT'D BE SUPPORT. YES. YOU KNOW, OPPOSE, SIMILAR TO THE QUESTION ONE, DEFINITELY SUPPORT, PROBABLY SUPPORT, PROBABLY OPPOSE, DEFINITELY OPPOSED. SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ELIMINATING QUESTION TWO? NO, NO, NO, NO. OKAY. OKAY. NO, JUST THIS IS A REPLACEMENT FOR QUESTION THREE, RIGHT. FIRST. OKAY. SO WE'RE GONNA, OKAY, THAT'S FINE. WHAT I'M HEARING IS THAT WE LIKE TO JUST MEASURE SUPPORT OR OPPOSITION FOR RESTORING THE OUTDOOR LIVE ENTERTAINMENT INPHI THEATER. AND I DON'T KNOW, SHOULD REMAIN AN OPTION. HMM. I DON'T KNOW. SHOULD REMAIN AN OPTION IF PEOPLE ARE LIKE, WELL, YES, NO, OR I DON'T KNOW, TO ME SHOULD BE THE OPTIONS. OH. AS OPPOSED TO THE NUANCES OF THE QUESTIONS? NO, I'M SAYING, DO YOU SUPPORT IT? YES. DO YOU NOT SUPPORT IT OR DO YOU NOT KNOW EITHER WAY OR YOU DON'T CARE? SAME OPTIONS AS QUESTION ONE. SO DEFINITELY SUPPORT, PROBABLY SUPPORT PROBABLY OPPOSED, DEFINITELY OPPOSED DON'T KNOW. YEAH, I'M GOOD WITH THAT. OKAY. OKAY. WELL, JUST HOW EARLIER YOU HAD SAID, WE DON'T KNOW, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO HAVE BOTH A 5,500 SEAT AND A 1500. RIGHT? I, I REALLY THINK THIS IS OUR OPPORTUNITY TO GAUGE WHAT PEOPLE WOULD LIKE. AND SO THE ADDITION OF A QUESTION ABOUT A 1500 OPEN SPACE TO ME IS USEFUL AND WHY NOT ASK IT. SO IN QUESTION TWO, WE DO ASK ABOUT AN EVENT LAWN IN A COMMUNITY GATHERING SPACE AND AN AMPHITHEATER. BUT MY PEOPLE GET CONFUSED THEN BETWEEN THAT, WHICH IS IN ONE QUESTION AND THEN, UM, AN ENTERTAINMENT VENUE, BUT ONLY ONE, ONE SIZE. IN THE THIRD QUESTION, I THINK I'M, UM, AGREEING WITH COUNCILLOR HOSSEINI ON THIS BECAUSE I THINK YOU, IF YOU JUST PUT IN THE, THE 5,000 SEAT AMPHITHEATER, YES OR NO, UM, AGAIN, THE PROBLEM IS THESE THINGS CAN'T EXIST IN THE SAME SPACE. THEY ALL TAKE UP PHYSICAL SPACE. SO YOU SORT OF HAVE TO HAVE THE OTHER, BUT THAT'S WHAT'S THERE NOW IN THE PROPOSAL, THEY DON'T, YOU'RE MAKING THAT ASSUMPTION. I'VE SEEN A PLAN THAT HAS BOTH OF THEM IN THERE. WELL, THEN WHY WOULDN'T WE ASK ABOUT THE SECOND ONE SO IT CAN, AND WHEN WE ASK THESE OTHER QUESTIONS, YOU'RE SAYING NO, WHAT YOU JUST SAID WAS THAT IT HAS BOTH. BUT MY QUESTION WAS, SO YOU'RE SAYING IT HAS BOTH A 5,000 AND A 1,500 SEAT THING. THAT'S WHAT YOU JUST, UH, DIDN'T MEAN TO SAY, BUT SAID. SO I JUST WANNA BE CLEAR THAT WHAT, WHAT I SAID WAS I CAN'T SUPPORT BOTH OF THOSE. ARE YOU THE, WELL, DID WE EVER THINK THAT IT WOULD, I MEAN, SO THERE, THERE WOULD BE A 5,000 SEAT AMPHITHEATER [02:35:01] PLUS A 1500 PERSON PUBLIC PARK TO HOST PUBLIC GATHERINGS. BOTH OF THOSE, YES. IN THE SAME SPACE. YES, IT COULD. IT IT MEANS THAT YOU WOULDN'T HAVE SOMETHING ELSE. AND THAT'S WHAT QUESTION TWO IS TRYING TO DETERMINE WHAT, WHAT ARE THAT JUST ANSWERED MY QUESTION. BECAUSE I'M JUST SAYING YOU CAN'T HAVE EVERYTHING IN THE SAME LIMITED SPACE. I'M JUST, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, BUT YOU COULD HAVE PHYSICS INVOLVED WITH THIS. RIGHT? BUT YOU COULD HAVE BOTH OF THOSE. AND NOT A REC CENTER AS AN EXAMPLE, BUT LET THE COMMUNITY DECIDE. YEAH. BUT THEN AGAIN, THAT'S THE PART THAT IS ADDRESSED IN QUESTION TWO. RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. MM-HMM . SO QUESTION THREE THEN JUST BECOMES THE AMPHITHEATER. COULD YOU GIVE US A ROUGH, AGAIN, I KNOW YOU'RE STILL WORKING ON, AND I CAN SEE, I COULD SEE YOUR FURROWED BROW . UM, COULD YOU TELL US WHAT YOUR CURRENT CONCEPT OF THAT QUESTION IS? AGAIN, I'M SORRY, WE DON'T HAVE IT IN FRONT OF US, SO WE MAY HAVE TO KEEP ASKING YOU TO REPEAT THAT. UH, THE PROPOSAL INCLUDES AN OUTDOOR EVENT SPACE. UH, THE, THE PROPOSAL MAY INCLUDE AN OUTDOOR EVENT SPACE. SORRY, LEMME START OVER. UH, THE PROPOSAL MAY INCLUDE RESTORING AN OUTDOOR LIVE ENTERTAINMENT AMPHITHEATER WITH THE CAPACITY OF APPROXIMATELY 5,500 PEOPLE TO HOST PUBLIC GATHERINGS IN STAGED PERFORMANCES. KNOWING JUST WHAT YOU KNOW RIGHT NOW, DO YOU SUPPORT THIS PORTION OR KNOWING JUST WHAT YOU KNOW RIGHT NOW, DO YOU SUPPORT THE AMPHITHEATER? I THINK I COULD GO FOR THAT. I COULD GO FOR THAT. I'D BE SATISFIED, BUT I'D LIKE IT BETTER IF WE'D ASK, BECAUSE I THINK PEOPLE ARE GONNA SAY, WELL, WHAT IF I LIKE THE IDEA BUT NOT THE SIZE. AND WHERE ARE WE GIVING THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO RESPOND TO THAT? YOU, YOU'RE, YOU'RE NOT, BECAUSE THESE ARE NOT OPEN-ENDED QUESTIONS. RIGHT. AND WE SPECIFICALLY ARE NOT GOING FOR OPEN-ENDED QUESTIONS ACCORDING TO THE CONVERSATION WE HAD BEFORE. HERE'S A SOLUTION WE CAN DO. DEFINITELY SUPPORT, PROBABLY SUPPORT, PROBABLY OPPOSE, DEFINITELY OPPOSE OTHER DESCRIBE AND DON'T KNOW HOW ABOUT THAT. YEAH. THAT GIVES PEOPLE AN OPPORTUNITY. SOMEONE CAN SAY I SUPPORT 20 A HUNDRED, BUT NOT 5,000. THANK YOU FOR COMING UP WITH THAT. OKAY. SO ARE WE GOOD? BECAUSE THERE'S PART TWO OF THIS DISCUSSION, , I WANNA GET THROUGH PART ONE, THEN WE'LL MOVE TO PART TWO. UH, SOMEONE WOULD NEED TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE SURVEY QUESTIONS AS REVISED AND CONDUCT THE SURVEY IN MARCH, 2026. I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T HEAR THAT. SOMEONE IS GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE SURVEY QUESTIONS AS REVISED AND CONDUCT THE SURVEY IN MARCH, 2026. WELL, I THINK THAT'S PART TWO. YEAH. WHERE THE MAYOR WANTED TO GO. I DON'T THINK WE'RE READY TO GO THERE YET. OH, SO YOU'RE, SO NOW YOU'RE POSTPONING THE MOTION ON THIS UNTIL, I'M GOING TO PART TWO OF THE, THERE ARE TWO PIECES TO THIS AGENDA BILL. TWO DISCUSSION ITEMS IN THE AGENDA BILL BODY. CORRECT. AND SO THEY, I BELIEVE, WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE POTENTIAL SCHEDULING OF THE LETTER OF INTENT REQUEST, IS WHAT I'M HEARING BEFORE THEY DECIDE WHEN THE SURVEY'S GONNA BE CONDUCTED. RIGHT. IT'S IT, WE'RE NOT SURE MARCH, 2026 IN THIS SAMPLE RESOLUTION. WE DON'T KNOW THAT PART YET UNTIL WE HAVE THIS SECOND PART OF OUR CONVERSATION, AND THEN WE WILL COME BACK AND WHATEVER RESOLUTION IT IS, WE'LL COVER EVERYTHING THAT YOUR CONCERN GETS COVERED. OKAY. SORRY ABOUT THAT. IT JUST SEEMED PROBLEM THAT YOU WERE MOVING ON. ARE WE GONNA SEE THE LANGUAGE THOUGH BEFORE WE THEY'RE IN THE SAME, PROVE IT. NO, TRUST US. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S WHY WE REPEATED IT DOWN AND TRIED TO GET IT HONED. RIGHT. ALRIGHT. IT'S AS AMENDED. OUR FAMOUS LAST WORDS ON. SO ARE WE, UM, DONE WITH PAUL'S PARTICIPATION? WE CAN THANK HIM AND LET HIM GO OFFLINE THEN AND NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT CORRECT. HANGING OUT. OKAY. THANK YOU, PAUL, FOR YOUR HELP TONIGHT. REALLY APPRECIATE IT. READY? LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU. OKAY, SO NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE LETTER OF INTENT. DO YOU WANT ME TO TALK ABOUT THIS SINCE I WAS THE ONE WHO ASKED TO IZE IT? YEAH, GO AHEAD. OKAY. UM, I THINK THAT BEFORE WE HAVE DISCUSSION OF A LETTER OF INTENT, WE NEED TO GET SURVEY RESULTS. I DON'T WANNA WASTE YOUR TIME. I DON'T WANNA WASTE STAFF TIME. I DON'T WANNA WASTE ANYBODY'S TIME UNTIL WE KNOW IF THERE'S SUPPORT FOR REOPENING THE AMPHITHEATER. AND IF THERE IS IT, YOU KNOW, I SAID WE MAY END UP 50 50 AND THEN WE'RE JUST RIGHT BACK WHERE WE ARE NOW, [02:40:01] . BUT IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, 60 40 IN FAVOR OF REOPENING THE AMPHITHEATER, THEN I THINK WE GO, WE MOVE FORWARD WITH EARNEST TO TRY TO WORK SOMETHING OUT. AND IF IT'S 60 40 THE OTHER DIRECTION, THEN WE'VE HEARD FROM THE PUBLIC. AND TO ME, THERE'S NO POINT IN HAVING A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE LETTER OF INTENT. SO I ASKED TO POSTPONE THE DISCUSSION WITH Y'ALL. UM, I DON'T KNOW, UH, ANNETTE, WHEN'S IT CURRENTLY SCHEDULED FOR MARCH 10TH. OKAY. EXCUSE ME. AND WE'LL HAVE, WE'LL, IF WE MOVE FORWARD ON THE SURVEY TODAY, WE WILL HAVE THOSE RESULTS WHEN, SO THE PROPOSAL FROM THE POLLING FIRM STATED THAT IT WOULD TAKE APPROXIMATELY 30 DAYS TO CONDUCT THE SURVEY AND THEN SOME TIME TO COMPILE THE RESULTS. AND THEN WE NEED TO PREPARE THE PACKET FOR YOU ALL. SO THE EARLIEST WE COULD BRING THE RESULTS BACK TO COUNSEL IS YOUR APRIL 28TH MEETING. OKAY. I MEAN, MY PREFERENCE WOULD BE FOR US TO GET THAT PRESENTATION AND THEN IF WARRANTED, HAVE AT THE NEXT MEETING THE DISCUSSION WITH YOU GUYS ABOUT THE LETTER OF INTENT. I SUPPOSE WE COULD DO IT ON THE SAME DAY, BUT IF WE DON'T HAVE THE RESULTS, THEN WE ALL MAY BE PREPARING FOR A MEETING THAT'S JUST NOT GONNA TAKE PLACE. SO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE GONNA, I GUESS WE'LL PROBABLY HAVE A CALL TO THE PUBLIC ON THIS. I'D BE INTERESTED IN HEARING WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY. UM, BUT I JUST, I DON'T SEE THE POINT IN IF THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS EXERCISE IS TO GAUGE PUBLIC SENTIMENT ABOUT THE AMPHITHEATER, LET'S FIGURE THAT OUT BEFORE WE KEEP MOVING FORWARD. I AGREE. I DO. I THINK THERE'S GENERAL CONSENSUS IF THE PUBLIC WANTS TO COMMENT ON THAT, I'LL REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. BEN, UH, AGAIN, UH, MADAM MAYOR, MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL, UH, MY NAME'S BEN MILLER FROM SCOTTSDALE. YEAH, I, I THINK TO YOUR POINT, UM, TO ME ANYWAY, JUST ON THE OUTSIDE LOOKING AT IT, IT'S LIKE, YEAH, WHY WOULD YOU EVEN WANT TO ENTERTAIN THAT WHEN YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW IF IT'S AN ACCEPTED, YOU KNOW, IDEA FROM THE, FROM THE PUBLIC, FROM THE POLL. AND SO, AGAIN, JUST TO REITERATE A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT I SAID EARLIER, IN TERMS OF A LETTER OF INTENT, I DON'T KNOW WHERE I CAN GET THAT, BUT I HAVEN'T SEEN IT. BUT TO ME ANYWAY, IT MAKES SENSE TO, INSTEAD OF NEGOTIATE WITH ONE ENTITY ON THAT, WHY WOULDN'T YOU OPEN IT UP TO MULTIPLE ENTITIES IN AN RFP TO GET MULTIPLE IDEAS AND MULTIPLE STRATEGIES FROM DIFFERENT EXPERTISES RATHER THAN JUST ONE LANE. TO ME, THAT MAKES NO SENSE. AND SO MY COMMENT WOULD BE, SO I THINK, MAYOR, WHAT YOUR COMMENTS WERE, UH, COUNCILMAN, WHICH IS GET THE RESULTS OF THE POLL, FIGURE OUT WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS, AND AT THAT POINT, IF THEY'RE WRITING IN 2,500 SEATS OR WHATEVER THEY'RE WRITING IN, THEY SAY NO, THAT THEN YOU CAN MOVE ON TO THE NEXT STAGE, WHATEVER THAT MIGHT BE. BUT I, THAT'S MY OPINION. I THINK IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE TO WAIT. THANK YOU, BEN. I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU JOHN. UH, JOHN BRADSHAW FROM SEDONA. UM, YOU KNOW, I I I THINK IT MAKES SOME SENSE TO, UH, TO WAIT FOR THE SURVEY RESULTS TO GET BACK. UM, YOU KNOW, I, I DO THINK IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT FOR US TO KNOW IF THE SURVEY RESULTS ARE IN FAVOR OF THE CULTURAL PARK, IF YOU GUYS CAN LET US KNOW WHERE YOU STAND, IF THAT IS THE CASE, IF IT'S ABOVE 51% OR YOU GUYS GOING TO, YOU KNOW, SIGN A, A LETTER OF INTENT OR A MEMORANDUM OF UN UNDERSTANDING OR SOME KIND OF A DOCUMENT THAT WE CAN MOVE FORWARD ON. THIS WOULD BE NICE TO KNOW TONIGHT IF, IF THAT'S WHAT THE CITIZENRY WANTS. UM, WE'D LIKE TO KIND OF KNOW WHERE YOU STAND ON THAT TONIGHT. THANK YOU, JEN. JENNIFER, MAY, UM, I JUST WANTED TO REITERATE TOO, THAT OUR, OUR INTENT TO GET A LETTER OF INTENT IS NOT FOR YOU ALL TO MAKE A DECISION ON THE AMPHITHEATER AS, AS RIGHT NOW, IT'S TO GIVE YOU THE INFORMATION THAT YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT KIND OF VIABILITY IT HAS, WHAT KIND OF FEASIBILITY IT HAS, AND HOW IT COULD OPERATE AND HOW IT COULD BENEFIT OUR COMMUNITY. SO I JUST WANT TO KEEP THAT IN FRONT OF YOU AS WE GO FORWARD. IT'S NOT A, IT'S NOT A DECISION IF WE DO IT ON MARCH 10TH OR EVEN APRIL, WHATEVER THE DATE WAS. AGAIN, IT'S FOR YOU TO GET THE INFORMATION THAT YOU NEED TO MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, ED. THANK YOU MAYOR. UH, ED KETTLER, SEDONA, A COUPLE THINGS. I JUST SENT Y'ALL A RECOMMENDATION THAT LISTENING TO THIS IS PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CURRENT STATE OF THE WHOLE PROPERTY IS FOR WESTERN GATEWAY AND IN PARTICULAR THE, UH, STATE [02:45:01] OF THE AMPHITHEATER ITSELF. SO I'M RECOMMENDED THAT YOU SEND OUT COMMUNICATIONS TO THE REGISTERED VOTERS AS A PRELUDE SO THAT THEY HAVE A GOOD UNDERSTANDING, THEY'RE AN EDUCATED VOTER AND UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT AND WHAT THEY'RE VOTING ON. A SECOND IDEA, UH, MAY BE IS THAT EACH OF YOUR PROPONENTS FOR, UM, ONE VIEW OR THE OTHER, YOU KNOW, UH, MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE THEM WRITE LIKE A 500 WORD POSITION PAPER THAT SAYS, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT AND IT'S TIED TO THESE THINGS. SO IT IS NOT CITY STAFF OR YOU WRITING WHAT THE DESCRIPTION IS. IT'S THE PROPONENTS, THE PEOPLE SITTING HERE IN FRONT OF YOU SAYING, WE WANT THIS AND WHY. BUT GIVE 'EM LIKE 500 WORDS AND PUBLISH THAT AS PART OF THE PACKAGE. OKAY. JUST SOME IDEAS AND, UH, THANK YOU FOR SLOGGING THROUGH THIS. APPRECIATE IT. ALRIGHT. THANKS ROBERT. THAT WAS YOUR TIME. . THANK YOU. I DIDN'T KNOW WHEN THEY HAD THIS OPPORTUNITY. ROBERT COSTER, UH, RESIDENT OF SEDONA. UM, I THINK MY FIRST QUESTION IS WHAT'S YOUR VISION? I MEAN, YOU'RE GONNA GET THESE SURVEYS BACK, UH, AND IT'S GONNA GIVE YOU A NUMBER AND DOES ONE NUMBER, SAY WE TEAR IT, YOU TEAR IT DOWN AND, AND PUT RESIDENTIAL IN THERE. DOES THE OTHER NUMBERS SAY, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA GO AHEAD AND, AND GET THE MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING AND GO BUILD? SO MY, MY QUESTION BACK TO, TO YOU IS WHAT THE INTENT IS, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S, IF YOU'RE GONNA SEND OUT A SURVEY, PEOPLE HAVE TO KNOW WHAT THAT INTENT IS THAT YOU'RE GONNA USE THAT INFORMATION FOR. UM, IF, IF YOU'RE NOT, THEN, THEN YOU KNOW, BY VARYING NATURE IT'S BIASED. YOU DON'T, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT BEING FULLY DISCLOSED WHAT THE RESULTS ARE. SO I THINK YOU OWE THAT TO, TO THE PEOPLE OF SEDONA TO LET THEM KNOW WHAT YOU'RE USING THAT FOR. AND I'M GONNA THROW ONE OTHER THING ON THERE, IS WE DO HAVE THE INITIATIVE, UM, AND MY, MY ROLE IS TO MAKE SURE WE MOVE FORWARD TO GET THAT INITIATIVE ON THE BALLOT. SO THAT'S GONNA HAVE A WEIGHT BASED UPON THE RESULTS PER OR CON WHATEVER COMES OUT IN TERMS OF WHATEVER DECISIONS YOU MAKE BASED UPON, UM, THE SURVEY AND BASED UPON WHAT YOUR DEC, WHAT YOUR VISION IS, YOU'RE GONNA BE USING THAT SURVEY FOR. SO I JUST WANNA THROW THAT IN THERE BECAUSE THERE'S OVER A THOUSAND PEOPLE THAT HAVE SIGNED IT. UM, AND UH, AGAIN, TO JUST DISREGARD 'EM, IT'S JUST GONNA BE ANOTHER, ANOTHER POINT WHERE PEOPLE ARE GONNA QUESTION YOU ALL IN TERMS OF ARE YOU LISTENING TO THE COMMUNITY? THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OKAY. ANYBODY ELSE WISH TO SPEAK? OKAY, THEN I'M GONNA CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. CAN I ADDRESS, HMM. I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS JEN'S QUESTION. YEAH, GO AHEAD. SO WHAT WE DO, I GUESS IT DEPENDS IF THE, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S 65% NO, THEN MY VOTE WOULD BE TO JUST TEAR THE DAMN THING DOWN. IF IT'S 65 IN FAVOR, THEN YOU KNOW, WE SEND YOU FORWARD WITH THE PROSPECT OF, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THERE WOULD BE SOME CITY SUPPORT. I MEAN, THERE, WE DO SUPPORT NONPROFITS AND IF RESIDENTS ARE WHOLEHEARTEDLY BEHIND THIS THING, I WOULD HAVE NO ISSUE WITH SOME LEVEL OF CITY SUPPORT. I HAVE NO INTEREST IN THE CITY UNDERWRITING THIS. I'M NOT GONNA KEEP IT PROPPED UP. WE'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, BUT TO ME, YOU WOULD BE TREATED LIKE ANY OTHER NONPROFIT. IF IT'S 51 49 IN FAVOR, THEN I WOULD PROBABLY SAY GO FORTH, BUT YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET ANY MONEY FROM THE CITY. I GUESS THAT WOULD BE MY TAKE ON IT, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT Y'ALL THINK. ANYBODY ELSE WANNA COMMENT ON THAT? I WISH PAUL WAS STILL HERE. UH, I THINK THAT WE DIDN'T REALLY TALK ABOUT HIM. I THOUGHT ROBERT RAISED A GOOD POINT ABOUT TELLING THE PUBLIC WHAT IT IS WE'RE, WHY WE'RE DOING THIS SURVEY AND WHAT WE'RE GONNA USE THE INFORMATION FOR. IS THAT A STANDARD THING THAT GOES ALONG WITH A SURVEY LIKE THE, HE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE DEMOGRAPHICS UNTIL WE ASKED THE QUESTION. THEN HE SAID, OH YES, WE ASKED THE FOLLOWING THINGS. I CAN'T SPEAK TO WHETHER OR NOT IT'S A COMMON PRACTICE, BUT, UM, I WOULD ADVISE THAT. I THINK IT'S JUST GOOD FORM, UH, TO LET FOLKS KNOW AHEAD OF TIME AND, AND HOW WE INTEND TO USE THE INFORMATION. BECAUSE THE INTRODUCTION REALLY DOESN'T SPEAK TO THAT. IT SETS THE TONE FOR THE, OR SETS THE STAGE FOR THE QUESTIONS, BUT NOT WHAT YOU'RE GONNA DO WITH THE INFORMATION. LET THAT, MAY I WEIGH IN ON THAT? I'LL JUST SAY THAT THAT IS AN AREA WHERE WE GET CRITICIZED A LOT FOR BIAS IN IS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HOW WE'RE GONNA USE THE RESULTS. SO I WOULD JUST SAY THAT WE SHOULD BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT THAT SAYS OR ELSE, [02:50:01] UM, I CAN SEE PEOPLE BEING, UH, CALLING US, CALLING ON US, THAT, THAT WE WERE BIASED IN THE WAY THAT WE SAID THAT, TO TELL THEM THAT WE'RE GOING TO USE IT TO DETERMINE WHAT WE PUT ON THE CULTURAL PARK PROPERTY. I'VE WATCHED THE PROCESS AT LEAST BEHIND THE SCENES, DOING MANY A BUDGET SURVEY OVER THE YEARS. AND, UM, AS I WATCHED YOU ALL DECIDE WHAT TO PUT IN IT AND WHAT NOT TO PUT IN IT, OH, AND WE HAVE TO SAY THIS AND WE HAVE TO SAY THAT AND WE CAN'T SAY THAT. AND BY THE END OF IT, YOU GET SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY FEELS GOOD ENOUGH ABOUT. AND SOMETIMES WE GET CRITICIZED FOR BIAS BECAUSE OF WHAT'S IN THAT. SO YOU MAY BE ABLE TO SAY IT WITHOUT BIAS, BUT I'M JUST SAYING THAT IF WE, WE HAVE TO BE REALLY CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT THOSE WORDS ARE OR ELSE, UH, I'M NOT SURE. I WOULD FILL OUT A SURVEY THAT I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS BEING USED FOR AND WHERE'S, WHERE'S THE BIAS? AND JUST SAYING AS PART OF THE PLANNING FOR THE YEAH. WESTERN GATEWAY SLASH CULTURAL PARK, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GAUGING PUBLIC INTEREST AND POSSIBLE USES. AND THEN THE LITTLE INTRODUCTION, HERE'S WHAT'S OUT THERE NOW, AND THEN GET INTO THE QUESTIONS. I MEAN, I DON'T SEE WHAT BIAS, I MEAN, IF IT'S THAT SIMPLE, THEN I AGREE WITH YOU MM-HMM . YEAH, WE'D HAVE TO STAY THAT SIMPLE. OTHERWISE IT'S GOING DOWN A PATH THAT COULD BE PERCEIVED DIFFERENT WAYS BY DIFFERENT, YEAH. WE JUST WANNA KNOW WHAT YOU THINK, BOB. NO, . . UM, SO ANYWAY, UH, BUT IF IT'S THAT SIMPLE AND REALLY NOT ONE WORD BEYOND THAT IN TERMS OF COMPLEXITY, THEN I THINK OBVIOUSLY THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME FRAMING. WE'RE OUT LOOKING FOR SOME FEEDBACK ON POTENTIAL AND THAT'S IT. SO CAN YOU CONVEY THAT? ABSOLUTELY. YES. AND WILL YOU CLOSE THE LOOP WITH US? MM-HMM . YEP. WILL DO. THANK YOU. AND YOU'LL SEND US THE, A COPY OF THE REVISED SURVEY QUESTIONS? YES, ABSOLUTELY. I'LL, I'LL BE SURE THAT ALL THE LOOPS ARE CLOSED. OKAY. INCLUDING THE FRUIT LOOPS UP HERE. , YOU ALL GOOD WITH THIS? YEAH. OKAY, THEN THAT WILL BE THE END OF THIS. OH, WE NEED A MOTION. WE NEED A MOTION. OKAY. LET'S GO BACK UP HERE. 76. I CAN DO IT IF YOU WANNA MAKE, SO NOW AS AMENDED, MAYBE WE NEED TO NOW, MONIQUE. YEAH. SO, SO YOU, YOU CAN, UM, HAVE TWO SEPARATE MOTIONS OR YOU COULD HAVE A, A MOTION ON THE, THE QUESTIONS AS AMENDED. AND, AND THEN YOU COULD JUST PROVIDE A DIRECTION ON THE DATE. OR YOU COULD PUT IT ALL IN ONE MOTION IF YOU'D LIKE. I, I THINK ONE MOTION WOULD COVER IT. I THINK ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS 'CAUSE WE WANT IT TO GO OUT IN MARCH AND WE, I THINK WE'VE SAID THAT ALREADY. SO I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION IF I MAY. MM-HMM . I MOVE TO APPROVE THE SURVEY QUESTIONS AS AMENDED AND CONDUCT THE SURVEY IN MARCH, 2026. WELL, WHAT ABOUT, WE HAVE AN AGENDA ITEM. WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT. YEAH, YOU DON'T HAVE TO ON THE TWO POINT. I THINK THAT CAN BE A SEPARATE DIRECTION TO STOP JUST DIRECTION ABOUT THE SCHEDULING OF AN AGENDA ITEM. ALL RIGHT. SO REPEAT YOUR MOTION. MY MOTION IS I MOVE TO APPROVE THE SURVEY QUESTIONS AS AMENDED AND CONDUCT THE SURVEY IN MARCH, 2026. SECOND DEREK SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. OKAY. NOW, DIRECTION THAT WE WANNA GIVE IS TO MOVE THE AGENDA ITEM TILL AFTER THE SURVEY RESULTS ARE IN. SO WHAT I BELIEVE I HEARD FROM THE COUNCIL IS WE'RE GOING TO REMOVE IT FROM THE MARCH 10TH AGENDA. YES. WHICH IS ALREADY TENTATIVELY OUT THERE. UM, SO OBVIOUSLY THE FOLKS INVOLVED IN THAT ARE HEARING ARE HEARING THAT. UM, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE A DATE CERTAIN YET TO RESCHEDULE BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW REALLY WHEN THE SURVEY RESULTS WILL BE IN, BUT, BUT IT WILL BE FOLLOWING THE COMPANY. SURE. I JUST WANNA CONFIRM THAT YOU DON'T WANT ME TO SLIP, SLOT IT INTO A SPECIFIC MEETING YET. RIGHT. OKAY. SO WE'LL DISCUSS THE SCHEDULING OF THAT WHEN WE BRING BACK THE RESULTS ON APRIL 28TH. BUT WOULD BE LIKE THE NEXT MEETING WOULD BE, WELL, IF IT IS THE NEXT MEETING, I'LL NEED TO KNOW, BECAUSE THE DEADLINES FOR THE STAFF INTERNALLY TO PREPARE AND PUBLISH THE PACKET WILL OCCUR BEFORE THE APRIL 28TH MEETING. BUT YOU'LL KNOW WHEN, YOU'LL KNOW FROM THE, FROM THE, UH, CONSULTANT WHEN THE SURVEY RESULTS ARE GONNA BE PRESENTED TO US. THEY WILL BE PRESENTED ON APRIL 28TH. YOU KNOW THAT FOR CERTAIN, IF IT'S A 30, WE'VE ALREADY LOOKED INTERNALLY AT THE CALENDAR AND IF IT TAKES 30 DAYS TO CONDUCT IT IN ABOUT A WEEK TO GET THE RESULTS INTO US, AND THEN WE NEED THE TIME TO PREPARE THE AGENDA MATERIALS AND THE PACKET FOR PUBLISHING, THE EARLIEST IT COULD GO ON YOUR CALENDAR IS APRIL 28TH. SO CAN WE DIRECT THAT THIS DISCUSSION, [02:55:01] THIS FOLLOW UP DISCUSSION HAPPENED, UM, IN MAY WITH YOU AUTHORIZED TO CHOOSE WHICH OF OUR MEETING DATES IN MAY, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CALENDAR'S GONNA LOOK LIKE FOR THAT, BUT WE DON'T. MAY 12TH IS THE NEXT MEETING. RIGHT. BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GONNA BE ON THAT AND WHATEVER. SO IF, AND WE DON'T KNOW IF YOU COULD SLOT IT ON A WEDNESDAY AS OPPOSED TO A TUESDAY POTENTIALLY. SO IF WE LEAVE, IF WE SAY MAY, IS THAT ENOUGH? SURE. ARE YOU HAPPY WITH THAT? I MEAN, I'D LIKE IT TO BE AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE. AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE. YEAH. OKAY, GOOD. YEP. GOT IT. GOOD? YEP. OKAY. ALRIGHT. WE ARE DONE WITH THIS TOPIC AND NOW WE'RE GONNA TAKE A BREAK. I REALLY DO NEED SOMEONE. ALRIGHT, HERE WE ARE. WE'RE READY. ARE YOU MOVING OR ARE YOU STAYING? I GUESS I'M GONNA STAY. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. LET ME, LET ME JUST [9.e. AB 3313 Discussion/possible direction/action regarding proposed State/Federal legislation, short-term rental legislation, lobbying efforts, and State budget and their potential impact on the City of Sedona.] SAY WE'RE ON AB 33 13 DISCUSSION POSSIBLE DIRECTION ACTION. REGARDING PROPOSED STATE FEDERAL LEGISLATION, SHORT TERM RENTAL LEGISLATION, LOBBYING EFFORTS, AND STATE BUDGET, AND THEIR POTENTIAL IMPACT ON THE CITY OF SEDONA. I MOVED. OH, SHE MOVED? YEP. , I DON'T LIKE CHANGE. TURNS OUT. OKAY. ARE YOU GOING THROUGH THE, WHAT YOU SENT US EARLIER? UM, I AM, I'M GONNA WALK IT THROUGH. IT'LL UNFOLD. YOU'LL SEE. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO GOOD EVENING TONIGHT, WE ARE JOINED BY KATHY SENSEMAN, OUR LOBBYIST. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT, KATHY. WE ARE NOW SEVEN WEEKS INTO THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION WITH LAST WEEK BEING THE LAST TIME TO ADVANCE BILLS OUT OF COMMITTEE. THEREFORE, AS YOU SAW IN YOUR LEGISLATIVE REPORT, THERE WERE SEVERAL BILLS THAT WE WERE TRACKING. THEY'RE NOW DEAD LIKE PREVIOUS MEETINGS. YOU CAN SEE ON THE SCREEN THE HIGHLIGHTED BILLS WE'D LIKE TO GO OVER WITH YOU TONIGHT. UM, SO THIS IS AN INTERESTING ONE. YOU CAN SEE THAT, UM, HOUSE BILL 2290 IS BACK HIGHLIGHTED. UM, KATHY, I WAS WONDERING, KATHY SENSEMAN, I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD, UM, REMIND COUNSEL, UM, WHAT EXACTLY IS IN THIS BILL AND THEN I'LL TALK ABOUT WHY IT'S RE HIGHLIGHTED. YEAH, SO WE TALKED ABOUT THIS ONE, UH, I THINK RIGHT WHEN SESSION STARTED. AND THIS IS THE ONE WHERE, WHERE YOUR WAREHOUSE OR YOU KNOW, IS LOCATED. SO IT'S, IT'S, IT'S AN ONLINE, YOU KNOW, RETAIL SALES. SO, UM, IT'S BASICALLY SHIFTING WHERE THE TPT WOULD BE ALLOCATED TO BASED ON THE LOCATION OF WHERE THE PRODUCT WAS COMING FROM. SO WHEREAS NOW YOU ORDER SOMETHING FROM AMAZON SITTING, YOU KNOW, IN SEDONA, SEDONA COLLECTS THAT TPT, THIS WOULD SHIFT IT TO WHEREVER THE PRODUCT WAS GETTING SHIPPED FROM, UM, AS BEING THAT SOURCE OF TPT. AND SO, UM, SO MANY CITIES ARE OPPOSED TO THIS, THIS ONE FOR THAT, UM, FOR THAT FACT. WHAT IF IT'S OUT OF THE STATE OR OUT OF THE COUNTRY? HOW DO THEY HANDLE THAT? UH, THE SAME WAY THEY DO NOW UNDER, UM, IT WAS UNDER, UH, THE WAYFAIR CASE, UM, THAT, UH, DICTATED HOW THAT TPT WAS COLLECTED AND REMITTED. UM, SO IT'S SOMETHING DONE AT DOR, UM, BUT IT'S USUALLY LIKE WHERE THE POINT OF SALE TAKES PLACE. BUT IN THIS PROPOSAL THOUGH, WHICH KATHY, IN THIS PROPOSAL, WHICH SHIFTS IT TO THE LOCATION OF THE MERCHANDISE, HOW WOULD THEY DEAL WITH THAT? WE'D BE LOSING TPT WITHIN ARIZONA IF IT CAME FROM CHINA. CHINA, YEAH, EXACTLY. OR CALIFORNIA. MM-HMM . YEAH, I, YEAH, ABSOLUTELY . I THINK THAT'S WHY YOU SEE THERE'S A WHOLE HOST OF CITIES THAT ARE OPPOSED TO THIS, WHEREAS YOU HAVE, UM, SOME OF THE BUSINESS GROUPS THAT ARE FOR IT. AND IT KIND OF GOES BACK TO THAT ORIGINAL WAYFAIR, YOU KNOW, DISCUSSION ON, YOU KNOW, SIMPLIFYING, YOU KNOW, THE TAXES, THE TAXES. AND SO FOR THEM, THEY WANT THE TAXES TO BE REMITTED WHERE THE PRODUCT IS LOCATED AT, NOT KIND OF WHERE I'M CALLING IT, THE POINT OF SALE, YOU KNOW, OF, OF WHERE IT, WHERE, WHERE, WHERE YOU PUSH THE BUTTON TO PURCHASE THE PRODUCT, WHICH IS HOW IT'S DEALT WITH NOW. SO THEY'RE LOOKING AT KIND OF A WHOLESALE CHANGE AND, AND HOW THAT HAS BEEN ADMINISTERED BY DOR. SO THE REASON I BROUGHT IT TONIGHT, UM, AND JUST AS A REMINDER, YOU ALL HAVE [03:00:01] GIVEN ME THE AUTHORITY OF IF IT FALLS UNDER OUR PRIORITIES LIST THAT WE ALL CAME UP WITH, UM, I CAN, UM, WRITE A LETTER, UH, IN SUPPORT OF SOMETHING, UM, OR OPPOSITION. SO LONG AS IT IS, UM, UH, STILL TIES BACK TO THOSE PRIORITIES THAT YOU SET. UM, BUT IN THIS INSTANCE, THEY ASKED ME YESTERDAY AND WE HAVE A MEETING TONIGHT, AND SO THEREFORE I'M JUST BRINGING THIS TO YOUR ATTENTION. I'M ASSUMING THE ANSWER'S GOING TO BE YES. UM, CLARKDALE DID ASK US TO SEND A LETTER OF SUPPORT FOR THIS, UM, OR OPPOSITION SUPPORT FOR THE OPPOSITION, IF THAT MAKES ANY SENSE, UM, TO, UH, TO SUPPORT THEIR EFFORTS TO, UH, MAKE IT CLEAR OF WHAT IT WOULD MEAN, UM, IF THIS WENT INTO EFFECT. AND SO, UM, AS BARBARA SHARED AT ONE POINT, I THINK SHE DID SHARE WITH, WITH ALL OF YOU, UM, SHE DID DO A ROUGH CALCULATION OF WHAT THAT WOULD MEAN IN TERMS OF REVENUE THAT WE WOULD LOSE. AND SO I CAN CONVEY THAT IN THE LETTER, BUT, UM, JUST WANTED TO GET SOME HEADS NODDING THAT IT'S OKAY THAT I WRITE THAT LETTER. GREAT. OKAY. WE'RE GONNA DO ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE IN THE SAME VEIN. UM, THE TOWN OF CLARKDALE ASKED US TO DROP A LETTER OF SUPPORT FOR, UM, HOUSE BILL 40 30. UM, AS A REMINDER, THIS BILL WOULD IMPOSE A FIVE-YEAR MORATORIUM ON A MUNICIPALITY MUNICIPALITY'S ABILITY TO RAISE FEES, UM, RAISE UTILITY RATES AND TPT EXCEPT THROUGH A 60% VOTER APPROVAL THRESHOLD. UM, SO I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT IT'S OKAY FOR MYSELF OR THE MAYOR TO WRITE THIS LETTER, BUT AGAIN, JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE YOU SAID LETTER OF SUPPORT IN OPPOSITION, RIGHT? YES. A LETTER AGREEING WITH OPPOSITION. YES. SORRY TO BE CONFUSING ABOUT THAT. OKAY, SO NEXT IS, AND AND BY THE WAY, JUST TO BE CLEAR, IT WASN'T CLARKDALE ASKING US IT, I MEAN, IT IT WAS, BUT IT WAS WENT TO ALL THE, UM, MAYORS. MAYORS IN GAMMA. YES. OKAY. SO NEXT ON THE LIST IS, UM, HOUSE BILL 27 93. SO THIS BILL WOULD ALLOW A CITY OR TOWN TO PUBLISH ANNEXATION HEARING NOTICES ELECTRONICALLY AND TO REDUCE POSTING REQUIREMENTS FOR A PROPOSED ANNEXATION CONSISTING OF A SINGLE PARCEL OF NOT MORE THAN 160 ACRES. IT AUTHORIZES A TOWN TO WAIVE THE 30 DAY WAITING PERIOD AND PUBLIC HEARING AND TO COMPLETE ANNEXATION IMMEDIATELY BY ORDINANCE WHEN THE ANNEXATION CONSISTS OF 100% OF THE PROPERTY OWNED BY THE INITIATING PROPERTY PROPERTY OWNER. SO AS YOU ALL RECALL AT THE LAST COUNCIL MEETING, YOU ALL VOTED TO OPPOSE THIS BILL BASED ON YOUR VALUE OF TRANSPARENCY. UM, WITH SOME NEW INFORMATION PROVIDED FROM THE CITY OF BUCKEYE AND THE LEAGUE, THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF WE WOULD CONSIDER MOVING OUR POSITION TO NEUTRAL IN THE SPIRIT OF WORKING TOGETHER. THE REASON FOR THIS IS THEY WORKED CLOSELY WITH THE ARIZONA MEDIA ASSOCIATION AND THE LEAGUE ON THE LANGUAGE IN THE BILL, AND WE ARE THE ONLY CITY THAT DOESN'T SUPPORT THE BILL, WHICH ISN'T IDEAL FOR THEIR EFFORT. SO I WANTED TO BRING IT TO EVERYBODY'S ATTENTION. I'LL RESPECT WHATEVER DECISION YOU ALL HAVE, BUT I DID TELL, UM, THE CITY OF BUCKEYE THAT I WOULD BRING IT UP WITH EVERYONE. CAN I JUST ASK A QUESTION? IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS BILL ALREADY MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE, IS THAT CORRECT? LET ME CHECK. LEMME CHECK MY LIST. YES, YES. OKAY. SO SINCE IT ALREADY MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE, UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S A LOT OF, NOT TO BE GAINED BY CH CHANGING A POSITION, BUT I JUST WANTED TO, I JUST WANNA GET ITS STATUS OUT THERE AND I CUT YOU OFF. SO KATHY, COULD YOU CONFIRM, I I STILL, THE WAY I UNDERSTAND IT IS THAT AS THE BILL IS MOVING THROUGH IT, AS YOU'RE MOVING FROM ONE POSITION TO ANOTHER, IT'S STILL RELEVANT, UM, SO LONG AS THE BILL STILL HAS A CHANCE AT MOVING SOMEWHERE, CORRECT? LAUREN? YES, THE BILL, THE BILL IS MOVING. IT IS, IT'S GONE THROUGH CAL, IT STILL HAS A THIRD READ, WHICH IS THE VOTE IN THE HOUSE. AND SO IT WOULD BE TIMELY TO, UM, IF WE, IF WE WERE TO CHANGE THE POSITION, IT WOULD BE TIMELY, STILL TIMELY TO DO THAT. UM, I DID TALK TO THE LEAGUE OF CITIES, UH, TODAY ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT, AND IT WAS ASKING THEM FOR SOME BACKGROUND AND KIND OF WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH IT. UM, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY HAD POINTED OUT THAT THIS WAS A, ONE OF THE RESOLUTIONS THAT WAS PASSED THIS SUMMER, UM, TO SUPPORT BUCKEYE IN THIS. AND SO, UM, SO I KNOW THAT THE LEAGUE WOULD ALSO, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T ASK, BUT THEY SAID IT SURE WOULD BE NICE IF ALL THE CITIES WERE ON THE SAME PAGE WITH THIS. AND YOU KNOW, THAT THE, UH, THAT MEDIA COMPANIES OR THE NEWSPAPERS THAT TYPICALLY HAVE OPPOSED THESE TYPES OF BILLS IN THE PAST, UM, ARE NEUTRAL ON THE BILL. AND SO, UM, AND, AND SO THEY [03:05:01] WERE, UM, HOPING THAT YOU ALL WOULD CONSIDER, UM, SHIFTING YOUR POSITION TO NEUTRAL JUST SO WE ALL THE CITIES COULD BE ON THE SAME PAGE ON THIS. GIVEN THE, GIVEN THE VERY LIMITED APPLICABILITY, I WOULD ACTUALLY FAVOR SWITCHING TO SUPPORT. I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ANNEXING ONE PROPERTY WITH, AND THIS IS WHEN THE, THIS IS WHEN THE PETITIONER IS THE PROPERTY OWNER, RIGHT? CORRECT. YEAH. I MEAN, I, I DON'T SEE ANY REASON NOT TO SWITCH. I MEAN, FINE IF WE JUST WANNA SWITCH TO NEUTRAL, I WOULD JUST SAY WE SUPPORT IT, KATHY. OKAY. UM, I BROUGHT THIS BILL UP. I REMAIN OPPOSED TO THIS BILL. I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND WANTING TO HELP OUT OTHER CITIES WHERE WE CAN AND COALESCE AND WORK TOGETHER, UM, WHEREVER WE CAN, AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T CONFLICT WITH CORE VALUES THAT WE HAVE. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE ADOPTED WAS, UH, TRANSPARENCY. THIS STILL, ALTHOUGH I UNDERSTAND THAT THE PETITIONER, THERE'S ONE PETITIONER, SO THEY'RE NOT AT ODDS WITH EACH OTHER. THAT'S NOT WHAT, FOR ME, THAT'S NOT WHAT IT'S ABOUT. IT'S ABOUT THE PUBLIC BEING ABLE TO KNOW THAT THIS IS HAPPENING BECAUSE A NEIGHBOR OF A PROPERTY WHO'S NOT A STAKEHOLDER AND DOESN'T HAVE, UM, A SAY IN THIS THOUGH, GETS THE OPPORTUNITY BY A PUBLIC NOTICE OF KNOWING THAT THEY NEED TO WEIGH IN AND GO SOMEWHERE. IF THE PUBLIC NOTICE IS REDUCED DOWN SO MUCH FROM THREE PHYSICAL POSTINGS TO ONE PHYSICAL POSTING, YOU'RE REDUCING PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE DRIVING BY ON A DIFFERENT ROAD OR IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION. OR, AGAIN, TO ME THIS IS, UM, IT'S GONNA BE VERY HARD TO MOVE ME ON THIS BECAUSE IT'S VERY MUCH A CONVICTION THAT I HAVE ABOUT PUBLIC NOTICE AND COMPLETE TRANSPARENCY. SO, UM, I STILL THINK THAT THE ORIGINAL REASONS THAT WE TOOK OUR POSITION OF OPPOSITION HAVEN'T CHANGED. SO THE ONLY REASON THAT WE WOULD BE CHANGING THIS WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, TO HELP OUT A CITY, WHICH I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THAT THEY WANT THIS, BUT AGAIN, THE LEAGUE DIDN'T ASK US TO DO THIS. THIS ISN'T EVEN ON ANYBODY'S RADAR THAT WE WERE OPPOSED. , YOU KNOW, IT'S ALREADY MOVING TO THIRD, UM, READING. IT'S A, IT'S ABOUT TO GO THROUGH, I THINK, I DON'T THINK THAT OUR CHANGING OF POSITION ON THIS IS GONNA HAVE AN IMPACT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER ON IT. UH, SO WHY WOULD WE COMPROMISE A VALUE THAT WE HAVE? I DO, DO YOU WANNA SPEAK? YEAH, GO AHEAD. UH, THERE'S A GENERAL, THERE'S A GENERAL, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S WHAT THE RIGHT WORD IS. CITIES SUPPORT EACH OTHER WHEN THEY, WE ARE SUPPORTED ON OUR SHORT TERM RENTAL BILLS BY CITIES THAT DON'T HAVE A SHORT TERM RENTAL PROBLEM BECAUSE WE'RE A CITY. AND SO THERE'S, THERE'S SOME OF THAT. AND IF IT IS A RESOLUTION THAT WAS PASSED BY THE ENTIRE LEAGUE AT THE LAST MEETING, UH, YOU KNOW, ANNUAL MEETING, THEN THAT WAS THE TIME TO SPEAK UP. AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC, THAT ANYBODY WHO ATTENDS THE LEAGUE CONFERENCE CAN, CAN GO TO THE RESOLUTIONS COMMITTEE AND LISTEN TO THE RESOLUTIONS BEING PROPOSED AND HEAR THE PROS AND CONS ON THEM. AND THEN IT'S LIKE OUR COUNCIL, WE HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS, BUT WHEN WE VOTE, WE'RE EXPECTED TO ALL SUPPORT THE OUT OUR VOTE. RIGHT? EVEN THOUGH IF IT'S A MAJORITY VOTE, THEN THAT'S OUR POSITION AS, AS THE CITY. SO I UNDERSTAND BOTH SIDES OF THIS, AND WE ARE GONNA BE ASKING OTHER CITIES TO SUPPORT US. SO WE NEED TO BE A TEAM PLAYER. SO THEN THE QUESTION BECOMES HOW MUCH DOES IT VIOLATE OUR VALUES? I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO ASSESS. YEAH. AND MAYOR, IF I, IF I MAY JUST INTERJECT AND ADD THE, THE BILL DOESN'T HAVE ANY SHALLS. IT'S ALL MAZE. SO, YOU KNOW, THE TOWN MAY PUBLISH THE NOTICE ELECTRONICALLY. SO FOR, IN THE INSTANCE OF CITY OF SEDONA, IT'S NOT REQUIRING US TO ONLY DO THIS ELECTRONIC ELECTRONICALLY. IT'S A, YOU KNOW, WE MAY DO IT THAT WAY IF WE CHOOSE TO. SO THIS COULD BE A POLICY DECISION BY THE COUNCIL TO BASICALLY CONTINUE THE WAY THAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING. BUT IT GIVES OTHER CITIES THE ABILITY TO, UM, UTILIZE THE STATUTE AS [03:10:01] THEY MIGHT WANT TO. UM, BECAUSE AGAIN, IT'S A MAY NOT A SHALL, SO IT'S PERMISSIVE OF HOW YOU WOULD WANT TO ACT UNDER THE STATUTE. I ALSO KIND OF FEEL THAT IF ONE PROPERTY OWNER WANTS TO ANNEX ONE PROPERTY INTO AN ADJACENT CITY, IT'S KIND OF UP TO THEM IN THE CITY. YOU HAVEN'T HEARD FROM PETE AND, AND CHARLOTTE. YEAH. THANK YOU MAYOR. I, UH, WAS GIVEN THIS A LOT OF THOUGHT AS WELL. I'M KIND OF ALIGNING WITH SOME OF THE THINGS THAT KATHY SENSEMAN JUST SAID. ALTHOUGH I DEARLY RESPECT YOUR ELLA'S POSITION ON TRANSPARENCY AND IT'S A COUNCIL VALUE, THAT'S FOR SURE. IT'S ALSO A LOCAL CONTROL ISSUE AND IT'S MAY. SO WE RETAIN ALL THE LOCAL CONTROL, BE AS TRANSPARENT AND PROCESS AS WE WANT. AND I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT STAFF IS NOT INTERPRETING ANY CHANGE IN OUR POSITION TO BE, UH, A CHANGE IN OUR POLICY ABOUT WHAT WE WOULD DO HERE LOCALLY. SO I'M KIND OF MOVING, I WAS MOVING TOWARDS BEING ABLE TO BE NEUTRAL ON THIS. WHAT DID THE LEAGUE ACTUALLY ASKED US TO DO? KATHY, YOU SAID THE LEAGUE DIDN'T ASK ANYTHING. THEY DIDN'T ASK US ANYTHING. IT WAS THE TOWN OF, DID THE LEAGUE ASK ANYTHING? THE TOWN OF BUCKEYE. AND THEN THE, THE LEAGUE DID ASK IN OUR FRIDAY MEETING, UM, WHAT SEDONAS POSITION WAS ON THIS. AND THEY DID ASK, OKAY, AND YOU'RE GOING TO CHECK BACK IN WITH YOUR CITY COUNCIL TO SEE IF, IF NEUTRAL IS AN OPTION. AND I SAID YES. AND, AND IS THAT A STANDARD APPROACH FOR ALL THESE LEAGUE RESOLUTIONS THAT SOMETIMES YOU JUST DON'T HAVE TO WEIGH IN AND IT'S NEUTRAL AND THAT'S OKAY WITH THE LEAGUE? IS THAT BEING SUPPORTIVE OF THE CITIES OR IS IS A NEUTRAL NOT SUPPORTIVE ENOUGH FOR CITIES? WHAT'S THE HISTORY AND, YOU KNOW, I I NOT, NOT TO PUT WORDS IN THE LEAGUE'S MOUTH, BUT I THINK THEY WOULD PREFER THAT, YOU KNOW, CITIES SUPPORTED THE RESOLUTIONS. UM, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, IN THIS, I THINK A NEUTRAL WOULD BE HELPFUL JUST BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY LIKE TO SEE ALL IN THE CITIES ON THE SAME PAGE, UM, YOU KNOW, ON THESE THINGS. AND NOT HAVING, GIVING, GIVING LEGISLATORS ANY REASON TO, UM, THINK THAT THIS, THAT THAT THE CITIES ARE DIVIDED, UM, YOU KNOW, ON RESOLUTION. SO, UM, I THINK, YOU KNOW, NEUTRAL WOULD BE GOOD. I, WHEN I TALKED TO THE LEAGUE THIS AFTERNOON, YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T ASK SPECIFICALLY IF WE COULD GO TO SUPPORT. UM, BUT THEY JUST SAID IT, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE REALLY NICE IF WE WERE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE ON THIS AND THE LEAGUE AND LIKE SAID ALL THE OTHER CITIES THAT HAVE WEIGHED IN ARE IN SUPPORT OF IT. SO IS IS THAT REALLY TRUE? I MEAN, I'VE NOT DONE THE ANALYSIS TO SEE THAT ALL THE CITIES THAT ARE MEMBERS OF THE LEAGUE VOTE IN SUPPORT OF SOMETHING THE LEAGUE SUPPORTS. I JUST, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT HAPPENS OR IT'S REALLY THOSE THAT CARE VOTE IN SUPPORT AND THOSE THAT DON'T JUST KIND OF REMAIN NEUTRAL. CORRECT. OR SAY NOTHING. OR SAY NOTHING. YEAH. MM-HMM . YEAH. MM-HMM . AND SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I'M AT. YOU KNOW, I WILL ADD LAYER ON TOP OF THIS IS THAT THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I DON'T LIKE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION ON THIS COUNCIL. UM, THIS PARTICULAR ITEM IS NOT ONE THAT AFFECTS OUR CITY. IT'S PERMISSIVE ENOUGH THAT WE HAVE ALL THE LOCAL CONTROL AND WE CAN ADHERE TO OUR OWN VALUES AS WE WANT TO OUR PEOPLE. AND I DON'T KNOW, PHILOSOPHICALLY I WOULD WISH ALL CITIES WOULD BE OPEN AND TRANSPARENT WITH THEIR PEOPLE, BUT THAT'S NOT UNDER MY CONTROL. AND SO I WISH THAT WE REALLY WOULDN'T TAKE POSITIONS ON BILLS LIKE THIS. YOU, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE YOU CAN GET AS PHILOSOPHICAL AS YOU WANT, AS POLITICAL AS YOU WANT ON, ON A HUNDRED THOUSAND ON MANY BILLS THAT COME BEFORE THE STATE LEGISLATURE. AND I JUST DON'T THINK WE SHOULD. AND THIS ONE DOESN'T REALLY AFFECT US. AND I THINK WE WOULD EITHER BE NEUTRAL OR, OR SAY NOTHING. I'D BE OKAY WITH SAYING NOTHING ON THIS AS WELL. AND, YOU KNOW, I DON'T LIKE CHANGING MY MIND ABOUT THIS BECAUSE, UH, KATHY ELLA'S POSITION AND THIS COUNCIL'S POSITION ON TRANSPARENCY IS, IS A VALUE, AND IT IS A VALUE EXPRESSED BY THIS COUNCIL, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT DOESN'T AFFECT OUR CITY AND THE WAY WE OPERATE. SO I WOULD RATHER WE JUST BE SILENT ON IT. THANK YOU. AS LONG AS IT'S, I WAS ACTUALLY EXCEEDING TO YOU, UH, LAST TIME. MY REAL BELIEF IS THAT IT, IT'S PERMISSIVE AND IT IS LOCAL CONTROL AND, AND I REALLY DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT, UM, AS IT STANDS. AND SO FOR THE GREATER GOOD, AND THIS, WHICH I THINK IS A VALUE ALSO OF BEING IN SUPPORTING ONE ANOTHER ONE ANOTHER CITIES AND TOWNS, I'M HAPPY TO BE NEUTRAL ON IT OR EVEN IN SUPPORT OF IT EITHER WAY. ONE THING I WOULD ADD IS THAT THE RED ROCK NEWS DID REQUEST US TO [03:15:01] BE NEUTRAL. AND WHEN WE SAID WE WERE SUPPORTING IT, THEY WERE REALLY HAPPY, BUT THEY HAD REQUESTED US TO BE NEUTRAL, NOT OPPOSE IT. JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT. OKAY. MAY I MM-HMM . OKAY. A COUPLE OF POINTS TO MAKE REGARDING SPEAKING OUT DURING THE RESOLUTIONS COMMITTEE MEETING, IF WE WERE ONLY GOING TO LIMIT OUR COMMENTS AT THAT POINT, WE WOULD NOT BE GOING THROUGH THIS EXERCISE OF GOING THROUGH BILLS AT EVERY MEETING DURING THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION. SO I, I I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THAT'S, CAN I RESPOND TO THAT FOR A MINUTE? BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE THE FULL INFORMATION. I FEEL LIKE I VOTED FOR SOMETHING THAT I DIDN'T HAVE THE FULL INFORMATION. I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS A LEAGUE RESOLUTION. I DIDN'T KNOW. I THINK IN THE FUTURE WE NEED TO BE MORE THOROUGH IN OUR, YOU KNOW, RESEARCH OR UNDERSTAND THE LEAGUE'S RESOLUTIONS. MAYBE LAUREN, WHEN THEY'RE PAST THIS NEXT YEAR, YOU COULD MAKE SURE WE ALL HAVE A COPY OF IT. AND THEN WE WOULD KNOW IN THE NEXT SESSION WHAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT THOSE RESOLUTIONS ARE. PLUS BILLS EVOLVE. I MEAN, BILLS EVOLVE SURE. IN THE COURSE OF THE SESSION. WELL ANYWAY, SO ABOUT THE TIMING, I DID WANNA MAKE THAT POINT THAT, AND AGAIN, THEN I WOULD WANT THAT STANDARD ON EVERY SINGLE BILL WE GO THROUGH BECAUSE OF THE, WE SEEM TO BE TREATING THIS ONE DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE THIS IS NOW COME TO US AS A QUESTION. SO, UM, ALSO CITIES SUPPORTIVE OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS. I WELCOME THAT SUPPORT. I APPRECIATE THAT SUPPORT AND I WANNA BE ABLE TO SUPPORT CITIES ON THINGS THAT MATTER TO THEM AS WELL, AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T CONFLICT WITH SOMETHING ELSE THAT WE HOLD AS A VALUE. AND I DON'T THINK ANY OF THE CITIES THAT SUPPORT US IN SHORT-TERM RENTALS ARE CONFLICTING BECAUSE THEY REALLY ACTUALLY WANT SHORT-TERM RENTALS, YOU KNOW? BUT THEY'RE GONNA SUPPORT SEDONA ANYWAY. I MEAN, THAT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME. SO AGAIN, I'M LOOKING FOR, UM, I I DON'T WANNA SUPPORT SOMEBODY WHEN IT CONFLICTS WITH SOMETHING IN POSITIONS THAT WE HAVE ALREADY TAKEN AND SUBSCRIBED TO. UM, THE, I CAN'T READ MY OWN WRITING HERE, SHOTTING DOWN. OH, REGARDING WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS, AND THIS GOES TO THE POINT OF THAT IT'S PERMISSIVE AND THAT WE WANT TRANSPARENCY. BUT WHAT THIS DOES IS ACTUALLY ALLOWS IT, THE STATE THEN CODIFIES THE REDUCED LEVEL OF TRANSPARENCY AND NOTIFICATION THAT IS NEEDED. YES, IT'S PERMISSIVE, BUT IT'S NOW STATE LAW THAT THESE THINGS ARE NOT REQUIRED. AND I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A REQUIREMENT ON, ON MUNICIPALITIES TO NOTICE THEIR RESIDENTS, THEIR CITIZENS, THEIR VISITORS, THE PEOPLE THAT CARE ABOUT THE STAKEHOLDERS IN THEIR, IN THEIR COMMUNITIES. AND THIS REMOVES THAT REQUIREMENT. REDUCES, NOT, REMOVES, REDUCES THAT REQUIREMENT. SO IN ORDER TO SAY THAT, UM, IT'S JUST ALLOWING THE STATE TO CODIFY A LESSER LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT TRANSPARENCY. SO THOSE ARE THE POINTS I WANT TO MAKE IN RESPONSE TO SOME OF THE COMMENTS UP HERE. I REMAIN STEADFAST IN MY OPPOSITION TO THE BILL. SO WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE US? HMM? WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE US? IT LEAVES US UNLESS ANYBODY ELSE HAS CHANGED THEIR MIND. WELL, ACTUALLY THERE'S A PROCEDURAL QUESTION WITH THIS, BECAUSE THIS IS ONE AND THIS IS GONNA, I KNOW WHERE YOU'RE GONNA REACT TO THIS. WE DON'T DO THIS AS A VOTE, WE DO THIS AS AN INDICATION. SO THIS WOULD BE, BUT WE'VE TAKEN A POSITION. SO WHAT WOULD BE THE PROCESS THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO GO TO, TO CHANGE A POSITION ON SOMETHING? JUST REDIRECT OR THEN IT GOES BACK AND FORTH AND BACK AND FORTH. AND WHAT IS THE ACTUAL PROCESS BY OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE FOR REOPENING A DECIDED QUESTION. YOU CAN, YOU CAN CALL FOR A VOTE ON ANYTHING THAT'S BEFORE A COUNCIL, SO, RIGHT. AND I WOULD BE OKAY WITH GOING FOR A VOTE ON THE ISSUE. THERE'S A RECONSIDERATION PROCESS. I I BELIEVE THAT A MOTION WOULD BE APPROPRIATE SINCE COUNSEL HAD ALREADY, UM, TAKEN A POSITION AND ACTION WAS TAKEN ON THAT, UH, COUNSEL CAN NOW RECONSIDER AND MAKE A MOTION TO, UH, DIRECT DIFFERENTLY THAN THE ORIGINAL DIRECTION. SO WE FIRST NEED A MOTION TO RECONSIDER. YEAH. YES. AND THEN A MOTION FOR AN ACTION ON THIS TWO SEPARATE MOTIONS. I BELIEVE THAT WOULD BE MOST CONSISTENT WITH THE RULES OF PROCEDURE. OKAY. WHO WANTS TO MAKE THE MOTION? I'LL MOVE, I'LL MOVE THAT. WE RECONSIDER THE VOTE ON HB 40 27 93. SECOND. OKAY. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE. OPPOSED? OKAY. SECOND MOTION. [03:20:03] I MOVE THAT WE TAKE NO POSITION ON THE ITEM. THERE'S NO POSITION THE SAME AS NEUTRAL? YEAH. HMM. WELL, NO, NO IT'S NOT. NO. WELL, YOU'RE, YOU, WHEN YOU DO RTS THOUGH, YOU'RE SAYING I OPPOSE IT OR I SUPPORT IT, OR I CAN CHOOSE NEUTRAL AS WELL. BUT KATHY, CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE? KATHY SENSEMAN, CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, UM, NEUTRAL AND NO VOTE AT ALL? YEAH, UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T, I DON'T BELIEVE WE COULD RESCIND A POSITION. UM, WE COULD ONLY SWITCH TO EITHER SUPPORT OR NEUTRAL. ARE THE ONLY OTHER CHOICES. OKAY. I MODIFY MY MOTION TO GO NEUTRAL ON THIS SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR A? AYE? NO. OKAY, LAUREN. ALL RIGHT, GREAT. UM, KATHY SSON, I'D LIKE TO MOVE TO HOUSE BILL 40 64. WOULD YOU MIND GIVING SOME CONTEXT AND BACKGROUND AND EXPLANATION ON THAT? YES. UM, 40 64. SORRY, I HAD 40, 30 UP. SORRY. 40, 30? YES. OKAY. DID DID YOU WANT TO DISCUSS 40, 30 OR DID YOU JUST WANNA SKIP OVER THAT ONE? NO, DIDN'T I, DIDN'T WE JUST TALK ABOUT THAT? THAT WAS THE SAME VEIN AS YES, THAT WAS THE SAME VEIN AS, UM, GETTING A LETTER OF, UH, FOR EITHER THE MAYOR OR I WRITING A LETTER TO SUPPORT THE OPPOSITION. AND YOU ALL NODDED TO THAT, SO, RIGHT. OKAY. JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I WAS TRACKING ABOUT THAT. I JUMPED, I JUMPED AROUND BECAUSE 40 30, 40 30 IS SUCH A HORRIBLE BILL. I CAN'T TALK TO A SINGLE MUNICIPAL LOBBYIST DOWN THERE WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT 40, 30. SO GLAD THAT WE'RE DOING THAT. UM, ON 40 64, THE MUNICIPAL IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT'S PETITIONS, UM, BASICALLY BEFORE A CITY COULD FORM A MUNICIPAL IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT, UM, THEY HAVE TO HAVE A PETITION SIGNED BY, UH, SPECIFIED PROPERTY OWNERS IN THE, IN THAT, IN THAT DISTRICT. UM, AND IT WOULD REQUIRE, UH, A 51% OR MORE OF THE ASSESSED VALUATION, UM, OF THAT DISTRICT. UM, AND THEN A MAJORITY OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS, UM, SUPPORTING THAT. UM, UH, AND THEN YOU COULD, LEMME SEE REAL QUICK, UM, YEAH, SO IT WOULD ALSO REQUIRE THAT A MAXIMUM ASSESSMENT AMOUNT BE ESTABLISHED AND PROHIBITS ASSESSMENTS FROM EXCEEDING THAT AMOUNT. CAMP VERDE ASKED US TO SUPPORT THIS, BUT WHAT IS A MUNICIPAL IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT? IS THAT SOMETHING NEW? NO, IT, IT'S, IT'S UH, IT'S BASICALLY, IT'S BASICALLY A TAX, A TAXING DISTRICT THAT IS, UM, THAT, THAT, THAT WILL ASSIST IN THAT, IN THAT DESIGNATED AREA. AND SO IT'S ONE OF, IT'S REALLY ONE OF THE FEW, FEW ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TOOLS THAT, UH, CITIES CAN HAVE. THESE EXIST CURRENTLY. DO WE HAVE ANY, AND THIS IS CHANGING THE RULES. HOW IF THEY EXIST SOMEWHERE? YEAH. UM, LET'S SEE. IT, IT'S BASICALLY I, FOR A LONG TIME I THINK THAT THESE WERE, UM, DISCONTINUED AND SO IT APPEARS THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO BRING IT BACK, UM, TO BE ABLE TO, TO UTILIZE IT. CAMP VERDE EXPECTS TO USE IT TO FINANCE CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS. UM, A LONGSTANDING FINANCE TOOL USED TO FUND ROADS, WATER, WASTEWATER AND DRAINAGE INFRASTRUCTURE THROUGH SPECIAL ASSESSMENT REVENUE BONDS PAID BY BENEFITING PROPERTY OWNERS, NOT PROPERTY TAXES. THIS WHAT WE DO WITH FAIRFIELD AND YES, WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THAT ON A SIDEBAR. WE HAVE TWO COMMUNITY FACILITY DISTRICTS HERE. FAIRFIELD, AND WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THE OTHER ONE? SEDONA. SUMMIT TWO. SEDONA SUMMIT TWO. OH, IS THAT THE SAME THING? YEAH, I BELIEVE SO. I CAN DOUBLE CHECK THE BUDGET. I'M NOT SURE IT'S THE SAME. I DUNNO. DISTRICTS, IS THERE A LEAGUE POSITION ON THIS? KATHY? IS THERE A LEAGUE POSITION? I LEMME JUST LOOK REAL QUICK. I'M SORRY. UM, IT PASSED OUT OF HOUSE GOVERNMENT. YES. THE LEAGUE OF CITIES IS, UH, IS SUPPORTIVE AS ARE A NUMBER OF, UH, NUMBER OF CITIES. SO LIKE FLAGSTAFF, PRESCOTT VALLEY, CAMP VERDE, UM, [03:25:01] COTTONWOOD, UM, WINSLOW, UM, ARE SOME OF THE COMMUNITIES NEAR US THAT HAVE TAKEN A SUPPORT POSITION OF THIS BILL. AND, AND ARE THESE MUNICIPAL ONLY OR IS THIS A TOOL FOR THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY TO IMPLEMENT ITS OWN? IT'S DRIVEN BY, IT'S DRIVEN BY THE MUNICIPALITY THAT WOULD HAVE TO, UM, CREATE ONE VIA A RESOLUTION. DOES IT INCLUDE ANY CAPS? IT'S FOR IMPROVEMENT DISTRICTS FOR OPERATION MAINTENANCE, REPAIR AND IMPROVEMENT OF PEDESTRIAN MALLS, OFF STREET PARKING FACILITIES, RETENTION AND DETENTION BASINS AND PARKING AND PARKWAYS. I MEAN, CAMP VERDE HAS SENT US A REQUEST TWICE NOW TO SUPPORT IT. IT PASSED GOVERNMENT HOUSE GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE. FIVE TO TWO. DO WE HAVE A STAFF RECOMMENDATION? I'M NOT SEEING ONE. KATHY, DOES THIS INCLUDE ANY KIND OF CAPS? UM, I WAS JUST LOOKING FOR THAT BECAUSE I HEARD YOUR QUESTION EARLIER. BECAUSE WE HAD THESE THINGS IN TEXAS AND PEOPLE CASH WOULD BE SET BY YOUR RESOLUTION. WE HAD THESE IN TEXAS AND PEOPLE WOULD GET SUDDENLY A $10,000 BILL FOR THEIR SHARE OF A ROAD THAT, YOU KNOW, BEEN SITTING THERE FOR HOWEVER MANY YEARS. THEY WERE WILDLY UNPOPULAR. DO AM I UNDERSTANDING THIS RIGHT? I'M READING THE BILL, THE LANGUAGE RIGHT NOW. AND THE GOVERNING BODY MAY ADOPT A RESOLUTION PURSUANT TO SUBSECTION M OF THIS SECTION WITHOUT REQUIRING A PETITION TO BE FILED PURSUANT TO SECTION BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. IS THAT THE GERMANE PIECE OF THIS? THAT IT DOESN'T REQUIRE A PETITION TO BE FILED, BUT RATHER JUST INSTEAD OF IT GOING THROUGH THAT PROCESS THAT A RESOLUTION OF THE COUNCIL WOULD REPLACE A PETITIONING PROCESS? IS THAT, THAT'S HOW I UNDERSTAND THIS. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S MY READING OF IT AS WELL. THANK YOU. IT'S SELENA BLISS IS BILL WHO? SELENA BLISS. AND IT GOES TO THE RULES COMMITTEE NEXT. SO LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE, I MEAN THERE, THERE, THERE, AS YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SO FEW TO FEW TOOLS THAT MUNICIPALITIES HAVE TO CREATE IMPROVEMENT DISTRICTS OR, YOU KNOW, DO THINGS LIKE THIS. AND SO, UM, SO, SO IT IT, IT TRULY IS IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR WAYS TO BUILD MORE, YOU KNOW, MORE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, THIS IS A GOOD TOOL FOR THAT. UM, BUT IT, LIKE I SAID, IT IS, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME GUARDRAILS ON IT. UM, YOU KNOW, UM, MEANING THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS WOULD, UH, HAVE THE ABILITY TO KIND OF SET THE TERMS OF IT, BECAUSE I'M NOT FINDING, NOT FINDING ANY CAP LIKE SET CAPS IN HERE. YOU ASKED FOR A STAFF RECOMMENDATION. THIS FEELS SIMILAR, UM, TO THE LAST BILL WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IN THAT THIS ISN'T A, AN ISSUE THAT NECESSARILY SEDONA HAS, BUT I CAN IMAGINE IF YOUR CAMP VERDE AND YOU DON'T HAVE AS MANY WAYS TO COLLECT TAX BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT A MAJOR TOURIST DESTINATION, THAT THEY RELY ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO HELP THEM. UM, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THEY'RE, UH, ELIMINATING PETITIONS 'CAUSE IT'S STILL THERE. OH, IN ONE PART IT SAYS THAT'S REPLACED BY A RESOLUTION TO COUNCIL, BUT DOWN HERE IT SAYS THAT IT'S IF A PETITION. YEAH, I'M NOT SURE IF ONE APPLIES. I I CAN'T SEE WHICH SECTION THE WHOLE THING AT A TIME. I'D HAVE TO KEEP CROSS-REFERENCING. BUT I JUST WANNA POINT OUT WE KNOW LESS ABOUT THIS BILL THAN WE DID ABOUT THE ONE THAT WE TOOK STAND ON AND JUST REVERSED. NO, I AGREE. I I DON'T FEEL CAP, YOU KNOW, COMPETENT. BUT THIS HAS TO DO WITH OUR PROCESS BECAUSE CAMP VERDE SENT THIS TO US A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO. WE'VE HAD A COUNCIL MEETING SINCE MM-HMM. SO I WAS KIND OF EXPECTING THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO, WE'D HAVE THE INFORMATION TODAY TO TALK ABOUT IT MM-HMM . SO IF IT PASSES THE HOUSE THAT'S GONNA GO TO THE SENATE, WE CAN WEIGH IN THEN. SO CAN YOU BRING THIS BACK TO US? YEP. WHY DON'T WE DO A LITTLE BIT MORE RESEARCH AND IN TWO WEEKS WE CAN MORE SO WE UNDERSTAND WHAT, WHAT IT IS THAT WE'RE DOING. AND I CAN PASS ON THE INFORMATION THAT CAMP VERDE SENT. THEY HAVE A, A CASE STUDY ON HOW IT [03:30:01] WOULD HELP THEM. AND TO ME IT FEELS MORE LIKE, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT TO DO TO STAND WITH CAMP VERDE ON? OR IS IT NOT SOMETHING THAT, BUT WE HAVE TO KNOW WHAT IT IS, RIGHT? WE CAN'T. IT'S ON THE CONTENT. YEAH, I THINK YOU HAVE, I THINK YOU HAVE THE, THE GIST OF IT, BUT I DON'T, I'M NOT SURE THAT, WELL, THAT DOESN'T MATTER. YES, I CAN PRI PROVIDE YOU WITH MORE INFORMATION AND YOU CAN MAKE A MORE INFORMED DECISION IN TWO WEEKS. THANK YOU. OKAY, NEXT. IS THAT IT? THAT'S EVERYTHING ON MY LIST. DO YOU ALL HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? NO. OKAY. YOU'RE OFF THE HOOK. THANK YOU, LAUREN. ALL RIGHT. [9.f. AB 3066 Discussion/possible action regarding future meeting/agenda items.] LAST BUT NOT LEAST, AB 30 66, DISCUSSION POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING FUTURE MEETING AGENDA ITEMS. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING? NO. , I HAVE ONE. OKAY. FAR, FAR IN THE FUTURE, WE SHOULD BE HAVING A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER WE WANT TO CODIFY OUR NOTICE REQUIREMENTS FOR PUBLICATION. OUR WHAT? OUR NOTICE REQUIREMENTS. OH, OUR NOTICE REQUIREMENTS. YOU KNOW, WE'RE SAYING THIS IS A POLICY, THIS IS A, A VALUE OF THE CITY. THEN LET'S PUT IT IN AN ORDINANCE AND SAY REGARDLESS OF WHAT EVER MINIMUM STATE LAW ALLOWS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA HIRE HOLD OURSELVES TO A HIGHER STANDARD. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ON THE NEXT AGENDA. I MEAN, IT CAN BE ON NEXT COUNCIL'S AGENDA. I DON'T CARE. BUT I MEAN, IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE REALLY COMMITTED TO, THEN WE OUGHT TO, AND NOT JUST MAKE IT A POLICY MAKING AN ORDINANCE. IT IS CODIFIED RIGHT NOW, ISN'T IT? I'LL BET. WE JUST REFERENCED STATE LAW. NO, THE STATE LAW CHANGED YEARS AGO THAT ALLOW US TO POP. OUR MAIN POSTING SITE IS THE CITY WEBSITE AND WE POST OUTSIDE. WHAT ABOUT PUBLICATION? PUBLICATION WE DO IN THE NEWSPAPER. RIGHT? BUT IS THAT IN, ARE WE RELYING ON STATE STATUTE OR IS THAT IN OUR CODE? WE DO IT BECAUSE WE FEEL IT'S BEST PRACTICE. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE DONE TO PROVIDE INFORMATION TO THE CITIZENS. I'M NOT SURE THAT IT'S IN THE CODE. WE CHECK THAT IT'S NOT CODIFIED. BUT IF IT'S NOT CODIFIED, LET'S CODIFY AT SOME POINT. AND I WANNA POINT OUT THAT THAT'S TALKING ABOUT A MEETING NOTICE. BUT IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE ANNEXATION, THE NOTICE REQUIREMENTS ARE DIFFERENT TO THAT TOO. SO IT'S A LITTLE MORE EXTENSIVE. WE SHOULD JUST PUT OUR MONEY WHERE OUR MOUTH IS. IF WE'RE SAYING THAT WE'RE GONNA STAND BY THIS VALUE, THEN LET'S, IF IT'S NOT ALREADY THERE, I SUPPORT LET'S FUTURE CONVERSATION. YEAH. WORK THE FUTURE CONVERSATION ORDINANCES AND THINGS. THEY HAVE DIFFERENT STATUTORY REQUIREMENTS AND WE FOLLOW THE STATE STATUTE FOR THAT. I DON'T EXPECT TO SEE IT ANYTIME SOON. JUST SOMETHING THAT WE'RE THINKING ABOUT. WAITING MOMENT. SO THAT'S GONNA BE A LEGAL NOTE. AND WHAT WE WOULD BRING BACK IS A LIST OF EVERYTHING THAT HAS SOME KIND OF NOTICE REQUIREMENT. YEAH, THERE'S A HUGE LIST. THEY HAVE DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS AND THAT WAY YOU CAN UNDERSTAND ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE BEING TREATED. REMOVE THE TEMPTATION FOR SOMEONE TO MAKE AN EXCEPTION IN ANY GIVEN INSTANCE. WELL, JUST THIS ONE TIME. [11. ADJOURNMENT ] OKAY. MEETING IS ADJOURNED. THREE O'CLOCK. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.