* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:01] LET ME GRAB ONE. OH, HERE IT'S, I'LL GET, I'LL GET THIS. [1. CALL TO ORDER, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIENCE, ROLL CALL] I'D LIKE TO CALL TO ORDER THIS PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING. TODAY IS TUESDAY, APRIL 7TH. THE TIME IS 4:30 PM CAN WE PLEASE ALL RISE FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE? PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE ALL. ROLL CALL CHAIR WHEEL PRESENT. VICE CHAIR. MARTIN. PRESENT SHOOT. SORRY. COMMISSIONER WALKER PRESENT. COMMISSIONER HURST PRESENT. COMMISSIONER GSKI PRESENT. AND COMMISSIONER SMITH PRESENT. SORRY. THANK YOU. I'D LIKE TO MOVE ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO. ANNOUNCEMENTS AND SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY ANNOUNCEMENTS UP HERE? ANYBODY? OKAY, CARRIE? OKAY, CLOSE THAT ITEM. MOVE ON TO AGENDA [3. APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES] ITEM NUMBER THREE, APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES. FEBRUARY 3RD, 2026. THERE'S NO COMMENTS, ADDITIONS. THEN WE WILL MARK THE MINUTES STANDING APPROVED. CLOSING THAT ITEM. MOVING ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR, PUBLIC FORUM. THIS IS THE TIME FOR THE PUBLIC TO COMMENT ON MATTERS NOT LISTED ON THE AGENDA. THE COMMISSION MAY NOT DISCUSS ITEMS THAT ARE NOT SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED ON THE AGENDA PURSUANT TO A RS 38 DASH 4 31 0 1. ACTION TAKEN AS A RESULT OF PUBLIC COMMENT WILL BE LIMITED TO DIRECTING STAFF TO STUDY THE MATTER, RESPONDING TO CRITICISM OR SCHEDULING THE MATTER FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION AND DECISION AT A LATER DATE. I DO NOT SEE ANYTHING HERE FOR THAT. ARE THERE ANY OTHER CARDS? IS THIS IT? DONNA? IS THIS IT? NO. OKAY, GREAT. SO I'LL CLOSE THAT ITEM AND MOVE [5.a. Public hearing/discussion/possible action regarding Basecamp — Sedona Beer Company: Request for a Conditional Use Permit (CUP) to use an existing area for outdoor music, community events, and outdoor movie nights. The property is currently zoned CO (Commercial) and is located at 70 Dry Creek Road. APN: 408-02-067Y.] ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE, CONSIDERATION OF THE FOLLOWING ITEMS THROUGH PUBLIC HEARING PROCEDURES. PUBLIC HEARING DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING BASE CAMP SEDONA BEER COMPANY. REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO USE AN EXISTING AREA FOR OUTDOOR MUSIC, COMMUNITY EVENTS AND OUTDOOR MOVIE NIGHTS. THE PROPERTY IS CURRENTLY ZONED CO COMMERCIAL AND IS LOCATED AT 70 DRY CREEK ROAD. A PN 4 0 8 DASH ZERO TWO DASH 0 6 7 Y. CASE NUMBER PZ TWO SIX DASH 0 0 0 1 CP. THE APPLICANT IS CALLIE ESKI AND MATT CRAWFORD FOR SEDONA BEER COMPANY. SO I'M GONNA RECUSE MYSELF YES. FROM THIS AND GO OVER THERE. OKAY. . OKAY. SO THE PROCESS IS, IS THE STAFF OR APPLICANT WILL SOMETIMES GIVE A PRESENTATION. I ASSUME THAT'S HAPPENING TODAY. WE'LL BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR ANY QUESTIONS. WE WILL THEN TURN IT OVER TO THE PUBLIC. OPEN IT TO THE PUBLIC FOR COMMENT. AND I HAVE A COUPLE OF CARDS HERE. SO IF YOU HAVEN'T FILLED OUT A CARD AND YOU'D LIKE TO, THEY'RE LOCATED BACK IN THE CORNER THERE. AND THEN AFTER WE CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT, EVERYBODY HAS THREE MINUTES TO SPEAK, WE WILL BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR COMMENTS. EXCUSE ME, MADAM CHAIR. UM, DONNA, THE DOORS ARE LOCKING SO FOLKS CAN'T GET IN. I THOUGHT THAT WAS INTENTIONAL. I DIDN'T KNOW LATE. OKAY, LET'S PROCEED. ALRIGHTY, GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS. I'LL BE INTRODUCING THE BASE CAMP SEDONA BEER COMPANY. PROPOSED CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO GO OVER THE SUMMARY. THE PROJECT IS LOCATED AT THE BASE CAMP SITE AT 70 DRAG CREEK ROAD. THE PROPERTY OWNER IS MAC CRAWFORD AND THE APPLICANT IS COLLIE. THE SITE IS ABOUT 0.86 ACRES. THE CURRENT LAND USE IS A MICRO BREWERY AND THERE'S ALSO A FOOD TRUCK THAT OPERATES ON SITE. THE APPLICANT IS SEEKING A CONDITIONING PERMIT TO ALLOW FOR OUTDOOR MUSIC, COMMUNITY EVENTS AND OUTDOOR MOVIE NIGHTS. TO QUICKLY GO OVER SOME OF THE PROPERTY AND PROJECT BACKGROUND. IN 2012, A ZONE CHANGE FROM OFFICE PROFESSIONAL TO GENERAL COMMERCIAL WAS APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL. THIS CHANGE, THIS ALLOWED AN ART GALLERY TO OPERATE AN EXISTING BUILDING AND NEITHER PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION NOR CITY COUNCIL APPLIED ANY ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL IN THE 2018 LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE UPDATE. THE ZONE WENT FROM GENERAL COMMERCIAL TO JUST COMMERCIAL. THE SITE HAS OPERATED AS A MICRO BREWERY FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS NOW AND HAS RECEIVED THREE T USE PERMITS BASED ON THE APPLICATION FORMS. THE EVENTS RANGE FROM ABOUT A HUNDRED PEOPLE TO 400 ATTENDEES. AND BASED ON THOSE APPLICATION FORMS, THEY APPEAR TO HAVE CONCLUDED AROUND SEVEN AND 9:00 PM THE APPLICANT'S LETTER OF INTENT EMPHASIZES DAYTIME EVENTS [00:05:01] WITH ALL OF THEM CONCLUDING NO LATER THAN 10. HERE'S A VICINITY MAP SHOWN THE SITE'S LOCATION, WHICH IS JUST NORTH OF 89 A. AND HERE'S AN AERIAL MAP OF THE SITE. SO WITHOUT A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, EACH PARCEL IS ALLOTTED 10 SPECIAL EVENTS PER CALENDAR YEAR AND EACH EVENT HAS A MAXIMUM OF THREE CONSECUTIVE DAYS. IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT EACH EVENT IS SUBJECT TO A SEPARATE TEMPORARY USE PERMIT APPLICATION FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL. WHEN A PROPERTY OWNER WISHES TO EXCEED THE NUMBER OR FREQUENCY OF SPECIAL EVENTS, THEY MAY APPLY FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. REGARDING THE PROPOSED USES, ACCESS IS PROVIDED OFF OF DRY CREEK ROAD AND WHITE BEAR ROAD AND NO TRAFFIC IMPACTS ARE ANTICIPATED. IF ADDITIONAL SHARED PARKING IS NECESSARY, AGREEMENTS HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED AND WOULD BE PREPARED AS NECESSARY. THE USE IS ALSO SUBJECT TO THE NOISE REGULATIONS OUTLINED IN THE CITY CODE. AND TO BEST COMPLY WITH THESE REGULATIONS, MUSIC AND MOVIE AUDIO WILL BE ANGLED AND CONTROLLED TO MINIMIZE NOISE THAT GOES BEYOND THE PROPERTY. ASIDE FROM THE ADJACENT RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICT THAT IS OPERATING AS A RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION, ALL ADJACENT PROPERTIES OPERATE AS COMMERCIAL SPACES. THE REVIEW CRITERIA FOR THE PROPOSED USE INCLUDED REFERENCES TO THE COMMUNITY PLAN GOALS AND POLICIES SUCH AS THOSE TAILORED TO SENSE COMMUNITY AND ECONOMY AND TOURISM. OTHER ADOPTED PLANS REFERENCED INCLUDE THE CLIMATE ACTION PLAN AND THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE FOR THE APPROVAL CRITERIA. THE FULL EVALUATION AND DISCUSSION ARE INCLUDED IN THE STAFF REPORT, BUT TO GO OVER SOME OF THE KEY POINTS, OUR REVIEW SOUGHT TO ENSURE WAS A CONSISTENT WITH THE COMMUNITY PLAN. AND WHILE THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED WITHIN THE WEST, SEDONA, CFA, NO CFA HAS BEEN ADOPTED. SO NO ADDITIONAL GOALS OR POLICIES NEED TO BE CONSIDERED FOR THAT. REGARDING COMPLIANCE WITH UTILITY SERVICE AND ACCESS. OUTSIDE OF GENERAL COMMENTS, NO REVIEW AGENCIES DID NOT EXPRESS CONCERNS AND REGARDING PUBLIC INPUT, THE APPLICANT CONDUCTED PUBLIC OUTREACH AND THEIR CITIZEN PARTICIPATION REPORT IS INCLUDED IN THE PACKET MATERIALS. STAFF ALSO COMPLETED PUBLIC NOTICING, WHICH INCLUDED PUBLISHING THE DOCUMENTS TO THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT WEBPAGE AND POSTING THE PROPERTY REGARDING IMPACTS ON SURROUNDING PROPERTIES. STAFF HAS RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS TO ADDRESS CONCERNS ABOUT TRAFFIC NOISE AND THE FREQUENCY OF EVENTS. IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THE CITY HAS NOT RECEIVED A CODE ENFORCEMENT COMPLAINT ABOUT ANY OF THE EVENTS HELD UNDER THOSE TS. HOWEVER, ONLY THREE TPS HAVE BEEN ISSUED IN THE PAST. IF THE USE GENERATES ANY COMPLAINTS, THERE ARE ESTABLISHED CODE ENFORCEMENT PROCEDURES AND PROTOCOLS TO ADDRESS COMPLAINTS OR CONCERNS THAT MAY ARISE. SO AS OUTLINED IN THE STAFF REPORT, STAFF BELIEVES THE APPLICATION MEETS THE REQUIRED FINDINGS OF, OF APPROVAL FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. AS A RESULT, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL AND WE HAVE INCLUDED OUR RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS IN THE PACKET WITHIN THOSE CONDITIONS. IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT WE ARE RECOMMENDING THIS CUP BE VALID FOR THREE YEARS. AND THAT WILL CONCLUDE MY PRESENTATION. AND COLLIE IS ALSO HERE AND SHE HAS A PRESENTATION OF HER OWN. THANK YOU. HELLO. THIS IS BRIEF. SO I'M APPLYING, UM, FOR THIS PERMIT TO ALLOW FOR ME TO USE THE OUTDOOR SPACE AT BASE CAMP FOR MORE COMMUNITY FOCUSED ACTIVITIES. UM, SOME OF THOSE TS YOU HEARD ABOUT PREVIOUSLY WERE FOR ONE WAS FOR OUR FIRST ANNIVERSARY WHERE WE HAD LIVE MUSIC AND THEN TWO WERE FOR JOINT LIBRARY EVENTS WITH THE COMMUNITY LIBRARY. SEDONA, THE TWO GET LOUD EVENTS. UM, SO THIS IS JUST AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO BE ABLE TO DO MORE REGULAR EVENTS, MORE CREATIVE EVENTS, AND ADD ANOTHER PLACE FOR LOCALS AND VISITORS TO HAVE MUSIC AND, UM, MOVIES AND JUST FUN THINGS, UH, THAT I CAN'T CURRENTLY DO OUTSIDE. UM, SO I OPENED BASE CAMP IN MARCH OF 2024. SO WE JUST PASSED OUR TWO YEAR ANNIVERSARY. I REALLY WANTED TO GET SETTLED THERE BEFORE GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS TO HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF HOW IT WORKED WITH PARKING, WITH PEOPLE, WITH WALKING WITH EVENTS IN GENERAL. SO THAT'S KIND OF WHY I WAITED THAT TWO YEARS BEFORE I BROUGHT THIS BEFORE Y'ALL. UM, SO FAR OUR EVENTS HAVE BEEN REALLY POPULAR. I'VE BEEN BEING ASKED ABOUT MOVIES SINCE THEY ENDED LAST YEAR. UM, SO I WOULD LIKE TO CREATE A SPACE FOR EVERYONE THAT WE CAN DO REALLY FUN THINGS THAT MAYBE AREN'T H HAPPENING ELSEWHERE. SO SOME OF THE THINGS WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW, UM, WE DO TRIVIA NIGHT ALREADY. UH, TRIBUNE BINGO, ALTERNATE INSIDE. IT WOULD BE LOVELY WHEN WE GET BIG CROWDS TO ALLOW THAT TO SPILL ONTO THE PATIO, UM, AND CONTINUE THOSE KIND OF THINGS. IT'S, UH, BEEN A REALLY BIG HIT WITH THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE. THEY WALK DOWN FOR THOSE. LAST SUMMER WE DID, WE PARTNERED WITH THE SEDONA INTERNATIONAL FILM FESTIVAL EVERY THURSDAY FOR A MOVIE NIGHT, UM, FOR A PORTION OF THE SUMMER. AND WE RAISED MONEY FOR THEM DURING THOSE TIMES AS A DONATION TO SUPPORT THE, [00:10:01] UH, EVENTS THEY DO IN TOWN. AND PEOPLE LOVED IT. THEY BROUGHT CHAIRS. WE DID LIKE, UH, THEMED FOOD SPECIALS FOR THE MOVIE THAT WAS BEING PLAYED. IT WAS JUST A REALLY FUN THING THAT WAS GOING ON. WE HAD A COUPLE OF LIKE MORE KID MOVIES, WHICH REALLY DREW A LOT OF FAMILIES IN, WHICH WAS REALLY FUN. UM, AND WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO HOPEFULLY DOING THAT AGAIN. AND THEN I'VE ALSO HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH, UM, THE HUMAN SOCIETY AND SOME VET OFFICES ABOUT DOING ADOPTION EVENTS ON THE PATIO OR OTHER KIND OF FUNDRAISERS WHEN IT COMES TO OUR LOCAL NONPROFITS. AND PART OF THE REASON I WAS VAGUE IN COMMUNITY EVENTS IS BECAUSE I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M GONNA BE ASKED FOR. LIKE BEFORE THE HUMANE SOCIETY ASKED ME ABOUT AN ADOPTION EVENT, I WOULDN'T HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT IT. UM, SO I'M TRYING TO KEEP MYSELF OPEN SO WHEN THOSE LOCAL NONPROFITS COME TO ME AND ASK FOR SOMETHING OR IF YOU KNOW, JUDY COMES AND ASKS FOR SOMETHING CREATIVE, I CAN SAY YES. UH, HERE'S OUR SITE PLAN. IF YOU SEE THAT BLUE LINE THAT IS THE ANGLE OF OUR PROJECTION, UH, WE EVEN, YOU KNOW, MADE SURE THAT WE HAD THE INFRASTRUCTURE POSSIBLE TO POINT ALL OF OUR, UM, AMPLIFICATION IF NEEDED TOWARDS THE BUILDING. UH, WE HAVE DONE MUSIC WITHOUT AMPL AMPLIFICATION. IT WAS GREAT. UH, MOVIES. WE DEFINITELY FIGURED OUT THE BEST WAY TO HANDLE THEM LAST YEAR AS WELL. UH, AND THE GOAL IS TO KEEP IT ON OUR PROPERTY AND IF IT DOES SPILL TOWARDS 89 A RATHER THAN BACK BEHIND US WHERE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS. THAT'S ALL WE GOT FOR THAT. IS THAT THE LAST ONE? MM-HMM . SWEET. UM, I'M OPEN TO ANY QUESTIONS. UM, I HOPE THAT WE CAN FIND A WAY TO PUT THIS INTO PLACE SO WE CAN HAVE IT DO SOME FUN THINGS RIGHT DOWN THE ROAD. THANK YOU. COLLIE. IT'S THAT WAY. YEAH. OOH, I'M GOOD AT SPATIAL. OKAY. I'LL BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION. QUESTIONS, JOE? NO, I LIKED IT. OKAY, SO WE'LL JUST MOVE ON TO OPENING IT TO THE PUBLIC. I HAVE TIM PERRY. WE'LL SPEAK FIRST. FOLLOWED BY PATRICK SCHWEISS. OH, IT LOOKS LIKE SAME. GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS TIM PERRY AND I LIVE IN SEDONA. THE COMMISSION SHOULD GO AHEAD AND APPROVE THIS PERMIT FOR THE USUAL THREE REASONS. ONE, THE RIGHT OF THE BUSINESS OWNER TO CONDUCT THEIR BUSINESS AS THEY SEE FIT ON THEIR PROPERTY. TWO, THE FACT THAT NO COMPLAINTS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED REGARDING THESE ACTIVITIES PREVIOUSLY. AND THREE, BECAUSE IT GIVES THE COMMISSION ANOTHER CHANCE TO STAND UP AND SUPPORT ARTS AND COMMUNITY IN SEDONA OVER THE VOICES OF THE SMALL MINORITY OF NIMBY BIGOTS WHO WANT TO KILL FREEDOM AND FUN IN THIS TOWN. WE NEED MORE OUTDOOR SPACES. WE NEED MORE OUTDOOR EVENTS. THIS IS SEDONA. IT'S A PLACE WHERE THINGS SHOULD BE HAPPENING OUTDOORS. WE NEED MORE MUSIC, MORE DANCING, MORE PARTIES. AND YES, WE NEED MORE BEER TOO. AND I WOULD LIKE TO APPLAUD THE FACT THAT THIS APPLICATION IS COMING UP FOR CONSIDERATION ON NATIONAL BEER DAY . I URGE THE COMMISSION TO APPROVE THE PERMIT IF POSSIBLE, WITHOUT THE THREE YEAR TIME LIMIT PROPOSED BY STAFF. THANK YOU, TIM. GOOD JOB. PATRICK. HELLO COMMISSIONERS. I'M PATRICK SCHWEISS. UM, I RESIDE HERE IN SEDONA AND I RUN THE SEDONA INTERNATIONAL FILM FESTIVAL. AND IT SEEMS ALREADY LIKE THIS IS A NO BRAINER, SO I WON'T TAKE UP MUCH OF YOUR TIME. BUT I WANTED TO COMMEND COLLIE AND MACK BECAUSE THEY ALLOWED US TO COME OVER AND INVITED US TO COME OVER AND DO SOME MOVIES THERE. LAST YEAR AT BASE CAMP, WHICH WAS ABSOLUTELY PHENOMENAL. WE WERE ABLE TO REACH AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT DEMOGRAPHIC AND BRING SOME OF OUR INCREDIBLE SUPPORTERS AND USUAL SUSPECTS OVER TO WATCH THEM WATCH THE FILMS, AND HER SUPPORTERS BECAME OUR SUPPORTERS AND VICE VERSA. AND, UM, AND THEN THEY ENDED UP DONATING, UH, A PERCENTAGE OF THE PROCEEDS FROM ALL THE SALES THOSE NIGHTS TO OUR NONPROFIT, WHICH WAS VERY UNEXPECTED AND VERY, VERY MUCH APPRECIATED. UM, IT WAS PHENOMENAL. WE HAD NO COMPLAINTS. IN FACT, WE JUST HAD FUN. AND, UM, UH, CALLIE AND MACK WENT TO THE ADDITIONAL TROUBLE OF INSTALLING AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE, A WHOLE BLOCK OF NEW ELECTRIC OUTLETS. SO WE DIDN'T HAVE TO RUN A WHOLE BUNCH OF EXTENSION CORDS TO MAKE THE MOVIES HAPPEN. 'CAUSE IT TAKES THREE VERY HIGH POWERED ELECTRICAL THINGS TO MAKE THESE OUTDOOR FILMS HAPPEN. AND THEY DID THAT. AND MY STAFFS QUICKLY CAME TO LIKE THEIR LOCATION THE BEST BECAUSE IT WAS THE EASIEST ONE TO SET UP OUR, OUR SETUP FOR OUR OUTDOOR MOVIES. SO WE WOULD BE HONORED TO BE BACK. WE WILL BE PARTNERS WITH YOU FOR SEVERAL YEARS. I AGREE. I HOPE THIS IS INDEFINITE BEYOND THE THREE YEARS. UM, YOU HAVE EARNED IT. YOU'VE SHOWN YOU'VE GOT AN INCREDIBLE BUSINESS MODEL, A LOT OF SUPPORT, AND YOU GIVE BACK TO THE COMMUNITY AND YOU SUPPORT THE COMMUNITY. SO I'M ALL FOR THIS AND I REPRESENT ALL THE VOICES ON OUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS AND OUR STAFF AS WELL. SO THANK YOU FOR LISTENING AND I HOPE THIS GOES VERY WELL, RIGHT IN MOMENTS. THANK YOU. [00:15:01] THANK YOU, PATRICK. NEXT UP IS NICK MANCHI, FOLLOWED BY ANDREA MASSEY. HEY EVERYBODY. WE LIVE IN THE LOT RIGHT BEHIND. UH, LORI AND I LIVE IN THE LOT RIGHT BEHIND THE CITY HERE. NICK. NICK, CAN YOU, SORRY, CAN YOU STATE YOUR NAME AND CITY OF ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD? NO, I THOUGHT YOU JUST DID. WELL, , IT'S A REQUIREMENT. NICK MANCY. SEDONA, THANK YOU. RIGHT BEHIND THIS PLACE. UH, WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE IT. WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE IT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IT WOULD BRING A LITTLE LIFE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE MUSIC THAT WE'VE HEARD SO FAR HAS BEEN GREAT. SO WE CAN KIND OF HEAR IT FROM OUR FRONT YARD. AND IT SOUNDS GREAT. IT'S NOT TOO LOUD AND IT'S NOT GONNA GET LOUD, YOU KNOW, IT'S A SMALL VENUE, RIGHT? YOU GONNA KEEP IT, UH, NICE AND QUIET SO WE DON'T MIND THE NOISE AND IT'S NOT MUCH NOISE AT ALL. SO, UM, WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE ANOTHER PLACE TO WALK TO PUT IT ON THE LIST. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. THANK YOU NICK. ANDREA, UM, I'M ANDREA MADDIE, AND I HAVE THE VACANT RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY CLOSEST TO YOUR PROPERTY. I HAVE SOME AMBIVALENCE. UM, I DO SUPPORT THE ARTS. I LOVE THE FILMS. I ATTENDED A FILM THERE LAST YEAR. UM, I JUST HAVE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT, UM, THE COMMERCIAL BEING KIND OF SQUEEZED INTO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, THERE'S A BIG HOMELESS PROBLEM GOING ON IN THE WASH. UM, AND SO I JUST, YOU KNOW, I JUST HAVE SOME CONCERNS ON HOW IT'LL AFFECT THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, AND, YOU KNOW, HOPING THAT BRINGING IT, WE CAN ALL WORK TOGETHER TO KEEP OUR NEIGHBORHOOD SAFE AND CLEAN. AND SO I, I DO SUPPORT IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. THERE'S NO OTHER CARDS. I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR COMMENTS. ROB, DO YOU WANNA START? OH, SURE. I'LL START. I'M GLAD THAT IT WAS POINTED OUT THAT IT'S NATIONAL BEER DAY. UM, UH, THE ISSUE WAS BROUGHT UP, UH, ABOUT MAKING IT LONGER THAN THREE YEARS. MM-HMM . SINCE THIS IS CALLED A TEMPORARY USE PERMIT. CONDITIONAL CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. UM, I GUESS I WOULD NOT MAKE IT INDEFINITE. OKAY. JUST MY FEELING. NOTHING AGAINST THE GREAT APPLICANT, THOUGH. WELL, WELL, SO, UM, I MEAN, CLEARLY IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE, UH, COMMUNITY PLAN UHS STAFF, UH, DIDN'T SEEM TO HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH IT, UH, HAPPENED TO KNOW THE APPLICANT. UH, AND, UM, I KNOW THEM AS, UH, VERY RESPONSIBLE. SO, UH, AND THE FOOD IS VERY GOOD. SO I THINK, UH, I THINK, UH, THE KIND OF, I THINK REALLY EXCEPTIONAL CREATIVE THINGS THAT YOU'RE GONNA PUT ON ARE SOMETHING THAT'S JUST PERFECT FOR A COMMUNITY OF OURS, WHICH IS NOT THAT LARGE. AND SOME OF US THAT ARE ACTUALLY LIVE HERE CAN ENJOY THOSE KIND OF THINGS. SO, UH, I WOULD BE, UH, SUPPORTING THIS. DO YOU HAVE A FEELING ONE WAY OR THE OTHER ON UNCONDITIONAL YOUTH PER USE PERMIT TIME LIMIT OR, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I HAVE NO ISSUE THAT, UH, UH, COLLIE AND MATT COULD COME BACK AND WE COULD DEAL WITH THAT AFTER THREE YEARS. OKAY. TOMMY? UM, I'M EXCITED, I WAS EXCITED TO SEE MORE COMMUNITY EVENTS, ESPECIALLY I WAS INTERESTED ABOUT THE FAMILY, SO THAT'S REALLY SWEET. UM, AND I ALSO FEEL THE THREE YEARS IS FINE, JUST 'CAUSE WHO KNOWS THINGS CHANGE AND TESTING OUT FOR ANOTHER THREE YEARS IS GREAT TOO. SO I'M EXCITED. I, I THINK IT'S REALLY THE IDEA OF USING BASECAMP AS A GATHERING SPACE FOR OUR NONPROFITS AND OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS IS REALLY KEY. UM, AS A PATRON OF SEDONA BEER COMPANY, UH, AND COMING TO SOME OF THE EVENTS, I REALLY FELT LIKE I COULD CONNECT MORE AND MORE WITH PEOPLE THAT LIVE NEAR ME AND NEXT TO ME, WHERE SOMETIMES WHEN I GO TO OTHER ESTABLISHMENTS, I DON'T HAVE THAT LOCAL CONNECTION. AND THE PEOPLE THAT I MEET ARE USUALLY MULTI-GENERATIONAL SEDONAS OR, YOU KNOW, OAK CREEK CAN OAK CREEK FOLKS. AND IT'S, IT'S, IT'S BEEN REALLY KIND OF A COOL PLACE TO LIKE HAVE A GROUNDING RIGHT. OF A PLACE TO GO FOR LOCALS. AND IT'S ALSO SUPER COOL TO BE ABLE TO GO TO AN EVENT, DONATE TO A NONPROFIT, AND, YOU KNOW, BE PART OF THAT ESSENCE AND PART OF SUCCESSFULNESS OF, [00:20:01] OF THE COMMUNITY AS A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER. UM, IT'S JUST EXCITING TO SEE A SMALL BUSINESS SUCCEED. RIGHT. AND HERE IN OUR OWN TOWN, IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE ROOTS ARE THERE. SO WITH ALL THAT BEING SAID, I'M SUPPORT OF THE, OF THE, OF THE CUP. UM, I THINK A CUP OF FIVE YEARS WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE AT THIS POINT. UM, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE FLAVOR OF THE COMMISSION AT THIS TIME. OKAY. WE CAN CERTAINLY TALK ABOUT IT. GO AHEAD. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR CARRIE THEN. DO WE UNDER CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS HAVE, HAVE, WHO DECIDES HOW LONG THEY ARE THE COMMISSION YOU? BUT, BUT AT THIS POINT, STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS THREE. YEAH. WHAT IS THE LONGEST CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT THAT'S BEEN PROVIDED? UM, TYPICALLY THE FIRST ROUND OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IS ABOUT THREE TO FIVE YEARS. UM, WE HAVE DONE INDEFINITE ONES, BUT THAT'S EITHER USE THAT ARE BUILDING A VERY SIGNIFICANT STRUCTURE LIKE A WATER TANK, UM, OR A USE THAT HAS BEEN, IS LIKE THEIR THIRD RENEWAL. THEY'LL GET A INDEFINITE ONE. IT'S GENERALLY WHEN THOSE HAPPEN. BUT FIRST ROUND IS TYPICALLY THREE TO FIVE YEARS. DO YOU REMEMBER THE ONE ON THE AIRPORT? HOW LONG? WE GAVE THAT ONE? YOU GAVE THEM ABOUT 18 MONTHS THE FIRST TIME AROUND AND I THINK THREE YEARS THE SECOND TIME. OKAY. THANK YOU. I REMEMBERING CORRECTLY, I'M GRATEFUL. THANK YOU. IT'S NICE TO HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THAT ON THIS SIDE OF TOWN AS WELL, ESPECIALLY AS WE KNOW HOW TRAFFIC CAN BE DURING TOURIST SEASON. UM, VERY SUPPORTIVE, ESPECIALLY AS WE LOOK TOWARDS THE HOUSING STRATEGY AND TRYING TO CAPTURE THE MISSING MIDDLE AND MORE FAMILIES AND MORE KID FRIENDLY EVENTS. SO I'M VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT, SUPPORT OF THIS, AND I'M GRATEFUL FOR YOUR PERSEVERANCE AND CONTINUING TO MAKE STUFF LIKE THIS HAPPEN FOR OUR COMMUNITY. UM, I'M HAPPY TO MAKE IT, I'D BE HAPPY TO DO FIVE YEARS IF THAT'S SO, I MEAN, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH FIVE YEARS WITH THE EXCEPTION THAT WE KNOW THAT THE CUP GOES WITH THE PROPERTY AND GOD FORBID SOMETHING WERE TO HAPPEN. UM, I'M JUST MORE COMFORTABLE COMING BACK IN THREE YEARS. OKAY. I'D BE HAPPY TO GIVE 10 YEARS AFTER THAT. OKAY. OKAY. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? BUT THERE, THERE ARE, THERE ARE, UH, CONDITIONS. YES. SO IF, YOU KNOW, IF THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD AND PEOPLE COMPLAIN, THEN THAT KIND OF DEALS WITH THE, UH, CONDITIONAL US PERMIT, CORRECT? YEAH. SO THERE'S ALREADY ESTABLISHED CITY SOUND, A CITY SOUND ORDINANCE, AND IF THERE'S WE'RE NOT, IF THERE IS A CODE ENFORCEMENT COMPLAINT, WE'RE NOT GONNA WAIT TILL THE END OF THE CUP TO ADDRESS IT. WE WOULD ADDRESS IT. MM-HMM . FOR, FOR THOSE REASONS I'D SUPPORT FIVE BECAUSE THERE'S YEAH. PARAMETERS TO CONTROL IT. AND COMMISSIONER HURST, WE OWN THE PROPERTY. SO THERE'S NO LEASE CONSIDERATIONS WHERE WE GET KICKED OUT OF THE BUILDING FOR ANOTHER BUSINESS IN THE FIVE YEARS. THANKS FOR CLEARING THAT. MM-HMM . KURT, I SET AT THE DISCRETION OF THE CHAIR. OKAY. YOU CAN, YOU CAN OPEN UP PUBLIC COMMENT AGAIN. WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK AGAIN? CAN I MAKE ANOTHER? SURE, GO AHEAD. I JUST WANNA, UM, BRING UP THE FACT THAT I FEEL THAT THE THREE YEARS SHOULD STAND. UM, I SPOKE TO THE FOLKS UP AT THE SKY RANCH LODGE AND THEY DO A LOT OF OUTDOOR EVENTS. UM, AND THEY, UM, I KNOW THAT THE NOISE ORDINANCE UNTIL 10:00 PM BUT THEY WERE EXPLAINING TO ME, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY BOOK EVENTS AND THINGS THAT THEY DO, 9:00 PM TRY TO BE GOOD NEIGHBORS, THEY WILL DO A 10:00 PM ON KIND OF A CASE BY CASE BASIS. I THINK 10 SEEMS A LITTLE LATE. UM, AND SO I AM A PROPONENT OF THE THREE YEAR REVIEW. THANK YOU. ANDREA, WOULD YOU LIKE YEAH. SO THE, THE 10:00 PM IS ONLY FOR MOVIES. I HAVE NO PLANS TO DO ANYTHING. UH, AS WE LEARNED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SUMMER, THE SUN GOES DOWN LATE. AND SO WE NEED THE 10:00 PM IS ONLY FOR MOVIES TO MAKE IT SO WE CAN, AND WE HAVE TO BE CHOOSY ABOUT OUR MI MIDDLE OF SUMMER MOVIES BECAUSE THE SUN IS GOING DOWN AT 8 15, 8 20 AND WE CAN'T START UNTIL THE SUN GOES DOWN. SO THAT 10:00 PM IS THE WHY. THE REASON I CHOSE IT IS ONE SOUND CODE, IT KICKS IN AT 10 AND TWO, IT'S FOR MOVIES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SUMMER. BUT I WANNA BE A GOOD NEIGHBOR. MY GOAL IS NOT TO BE DISRUPTIVE AFTER 10. I HAVE A TODDLER. I'M NOT AWAKE AT 10. I DON'T WANT ANYONE WAKING ME UP EITHER. SO, UM, THE GOAL IS MINIMIZING THAT LATE NIGHT NOISE IN ANY WAY POSSIBLE. YEAH. I MEAN, I THINK THE BEST INDICATOR OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR IS PAST BEHAVIOR. AND THIS APPLICANT HAS A LONG HISTORY OF BEING [00:25:01] IN OUR COMMUNITY AS A VERY RESPECTFUL BUSINESS OWNER. SO I I I SUPPORT THE FIVE YEAR. I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION FROM SOMEBODY. I'LL DO THE MOTION. OKAY. I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF CASE NUMBER PZ 26 DASH 0 0 0 0 1 CUP BASE CAMP SEDONA BEER COMPANY, BASED ON THE COMPLIANCE WITH ALL ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS OF THE LDC SECTION 8.3 AND 8.4 IN SATISFACTION OF THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FINDINGS AND APPLE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REQUIREMENTS AS OUTLINED IN THE STAFF REPORT, WHICH STAFF REPORT IS HEREBY ADOPTED WITH THE AMENDMENT OF THE CUP BEING FOR FIVE YEARS AS THE FINDINGS OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AND THE ATTACHED CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL. DOES THAT WORK, KURT? YES, THAT'S FINE. GREAT. DON'T YOU HAVE TO SAY FIVE YEARS SOMEWHERE? I DID. OH, I'M SORRY. I'LL PAY MORE ATTENTION. I SECOND THE MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, MEASURE PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. CONGRATULATIONS. YES, GOOD JOB. OKAY, CLOSING THAT ITEM. MOVING ON TO [6. Presentation/discussion regarding the initial data results for the Balanced Housing Strategy.] AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SIX, PRESENTATION DISCUSSION REGARDING THE INITIAL DATA RESULTS FOR THE BALANCED HOUSING STRATEGY. I GUESS I'LL HAVE TO COME TO A MOVIE NOW. DO YOU HAVE A PRESENTATION ANYWHERE? I HAVE A PRESENTATION. IS IT IN THIS FOLDER? YEAH, IT'S UH, UM, OH, WHERE'S THE, IT'S HERE. SO THIS IS JUST THE PERFECT, NOW BLESS YOU. COMPLETELY BLAME ALEX HERE AND THEN GOES TO WHAT TO DO. ALRIGHT, JUST VERY QUICKLY, UH, WE'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THIS PRESENTATION NOW TO, UM, THE CITY COUNCIL, UM, IN A JOINT, UM, PRESENTATION WITH THE, UH, THE SCHOOL BOARD. UM, AND THEN LAST NIGHT WE CONDUCTED A, UM, AN OPEN HOUSE, UH, WHERE WE INVITED THE PUBLIC TO COME OUT AND SEE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME THING. SO, UM, SO THIS IS, UH, TO GIVE YOU, UM, AN IDEA OF WHERE WE'RE HEADED WITH THE BALANCED HOUSING STRATEGY. UM, AND I'LL TRY TO BE BRIEF. UH, I THINK IT'S LIKE 30 SLIDES, SO I'LL TRY TO GO THROUGH THEM QUICKER THAN I DID WITH THE FOUR FOLKS AT CITY COUNCIL. UM, BUT SO THE BALANCED HOUSING STRATEGY IS GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN IN PREVIOUS HOUSING. UM, HOUSING ASSESSMENTS, AS YOU KNOW, IN 2020 THERE WAS A HOUSING NEEDS ASSESSMENT CONDUCTED IN 2025 THAT WAS UPDATED, UM, IN PREPARATION FOR ANY MASTER PLANNING ASSOCIATED WITH THE, UH, WESTERN GATEWAY. UM, WHEN WE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME BACK AND TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT IT, UM, WHAT WE HAVE DONE IS TAKEN A DIFFERENT APPROACH TO HOW WE SEE HOUSING. SO FIRST OFF, BEGINNING TO UNDERSTAND AND TAKING A STEP BACK AND ASKING OURSELVES, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS, UM, COMMUNITY AND WHAT ARE OUR NEEDS AS A COMMUNITY, UM, BEFORE WE ASK OURSELVES, UM, HOW MANY HOUSING UNITS WE NEED. SO WHAT TYPES OF THINGS ARE IMPORTANT TO THE COMMUNITY? WHAT ARE WE SEEING AS GAPS IN THE COMMUNITY THROUGH ANALYSIS? AND, UM, AND HOW MANY UNITS WOULD WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO MAKE ANY ADJUSTMENTS, UM, TO THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, TO BE ABLE TO ESSENTIALLY GET US TO WHERE WE WANT TO BE. THIS IS A TWO PHASE PROCESS. UH, WE ARE WORKING IN PHASE ONE, THE UNDERSTANDING AND ANALYSIS. UH, WE HAVE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO THE PUBLIC IN TERMS OF STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS AS WELL AS, [00:30:01] UH, OPEN HOUSE. UM, WHAT YOU'RE GONNA BE HEARING TONIGHT IS PRIMARILY GEARED TOWARDS, UM, WHAT THE DATA IS SHOWING US. SO WE ARE EXPECTING TO BE DOING THIS FOR ABOUT ANOTHER TWO TO THREE WEEKS, MAYBE A MONTH, TO CLEAN UP, UM, PHASE ONE. THEN WE HAND IT OVER TO, UM, OUR CONSULTING FIRM, LOGAN AND SIMPSON, OR LOGAN SIMPSON. AND THEY ARE, UM, CHARGED WITH DOING THE STRATEGIES AND SOLUTIONS COMPONENT, UM, TO THE PLAN. THEY'RE CURRENTLY WORKING ON BEST PRACTICES, LOOKING AT BEST PRACTICES THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY TO SEE WHAT TYPES OF, UH, SOLUTIONS OTHER COMMUNITIES ARE DOING THAT WE CAN APPLY, UH, HERE IN SEDONA. SO WE'RE GONNA SKIP THAT PART, 'CAUSE I'M GONNA GO THROUGH IT. UM, JUST A COUPLE OF THINGS. WHEN WE LOOK AT POPULATION, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, UH, BETWEEN 1970 AND UH, 2000, WE SAW A PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL INCREASE IN OUR POPULATION AND THEN IT PLATEAUED, UH, EVEN STARTED TO DECLINE A BIT. UM, WE ARE, UM, IN OUR ESTIMATES SEEING A BUMP THAT OCCURRED BETWEEN 2020 AND 2025. UH, YOU CAN THANK COVID, UM, FOR THE BUMP. UM, IT'S, BUT THE ESTIMATES SHOW THAT THAT'S GOING TO, UH, CONTINUE UNTIL ABOUT 2030, AND THEN YOU'RE GONNA START TO GET BACK TO A DECLINE. SO, UH, CURRENTLY WE ARE ABOVE 10,000, UM, BY 2035 ESTIMATE. WE'RE EXPECTING TO BE JUST SLIGHTLY HIGHER THAN WE ARE NOW. BUT I THINK THE IMPORTANT POINT TO THIS IS BETWEEN, UM, 2000 AND 2025, UM, OUR POPULATION HAS CHANGED BY LESS THAN 150 PEOPLE. SO, UM, THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PIECE TO KEEP IN MIND AS WE GO THROUGH THE REST OF THE PRESENTATION. IF WE LOOK AT HOW WE COMPARE TO OTHER PARTS OF VERDE VALLEY, UM, YOU'LL SEE THAT AS IT RELATES TO OUR DAYTIME POPULATION. UM, A DAYTIME POPULATION IS AN IMPORTANT ELEMENT TO DETERMINE IF YOU ARE AN EMPLOYMENT CENTER OR IF YOU ARE A BEDROOM COMMUNITY. UM, IN OUR CASE, DEFINITELY AS A NO SURPRISE TO ANYBODY, WE ARE AN EMPLOYMENT CENTER, UM, BASED AROUND TOURISM. UM, AND CURRENTLY OUR NUMBER PUTS US AT THE HIGHEST DAYTIME POPULATION RATIO IN COMPARISON TO OUR TOTAL POPULATION. UM, INTERESTINGLY, IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF WORKERS, UM, IN OUR COMMUNITY, THEN, UM, THEY ALMOST EQUAL OUR TOTAL POPULATION. SO WE HAVE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE OBVIOUSLY COMMUTING INTO THE COMMUNITY, UM, AS A RESULT OF THAT. IN TERMS OF POPULATION DENSITY, UH, WE'RE KIND OF IN THE MIDDLE RIGHT NOW. IF YOU LOOK AT THE CHART ABOVE, IT SHOWS THAT WE'RE TOWARDS THE BOTTOM. UM, THAT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE THE DELLS. UM, IF WE WERE TO TAKE THE DELLS AWAY SINCE THERE'S NOTHING THERE, THEN OUR POPULATION DENSITY WOULD INCREASE JUST A LITTLE BIT. IT WOULD PUT US ROUGHLY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PACK. SO, UM, VERDE VILLAGE, UM, IRONICALLY IS, OR INTERESTINGLY IS, IS THE MOST DENSE CAN, ARE WE GONNA WAIT FOR, SHOULD WE ASK QUESTIONS ALONG THE WAY WHEN HE'S TALKING OR JUST WE'LL GO THROUGH THE WHOLE THING? WE USUALLY WAIT TILL THE END. OKAY. THANK YOU. AGE AND AGING, WE POINT THIS OUT TO SHOW, IF YOU LOOK AT 2000, OUR MEDIAN AGE WAS 50.5. UM, IF WE LOOK AT THE MEDIAN AGE IN 20 25, 64 0.1 YEARS, UM, SO OVER THE, OVER THE COURSE OF 25 YEARS, WE HAVE AGED, UM, ROUGHLY 14 YEARS AS A COMMUNITY. EQUALLY IMPORTANT. TAKE A LOOK AT THE STATISTICS SHOWING OUR COMPOSITION. UM, IN, IN 2000, IN 2000, 25.6% OF OUR POPULATION WAS AGED 65. UM, OR OLDER, 13.7% WERE CHILDREN, 60.7% WERE WORKING AGE. IF YOU LOOK AT TODAY, UM, INDIVIDUALS AGED 65 AND UP REPRESENT ALMOST HALF OF OUR COMMUNITY. UH, THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN IS DOWN TO 7.7%, AND FOR THE FIRST TIME, LESS THAN, WELL, NOT THE FIRST TIME, 2020 WAS THE SAME WAY. UM, LESS THAN HALF OF OUR COMMUNITY OF IS COMPRISED OF, OF WORKING AGE HOUSEHOLDS OR WORKING AGE POPULATION. WHEN WE TAKE A LOOK AT THAT IN COMPARISON TO THE STATE OF, UH, ARIZONA, WE'RE ABLE TO SEE SOME, SOME, UH, SOME DIFFERENCES. OBVIOUSLY WITH THE AGING IN OUR POPULATION, UH, WE SEE THAT WE HAVE A SURPLUS IN THE NUMBER OF SENIORS. THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY A BAD THING. WE'RE NOT SAYING SENIORS ARE EVIL. UM, YOU KNOW, I'M PRETTY CLOSE TO IT MYSELF. SO, UM, BUT WHAT IT DOES SHOW IS IT SHOWS THE DISTINCT DEFICIT THAT WE HAVE IN TERMS OF OUR WORKING AGE POPULATION AND THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN WE HAVE IN OUR COMMUNITY. SO IT JUST REINFORCES, UM, THAT WE HAVE A GAP THERE. UM, BOTH IN COMPARISON TO THE STATE, IN COMPARISON [00:35:01] TO THE COUNTY, AND FOR THE MOST PART IN COMPARISON TO OUR PEER COMMUNITIES. UH, LOOKING AT HOUSEHOLDS, AND THIS IS KIND OF A KEY STAT BECAUSE IF YOU SEE THAT THE POPULATION, UM, IN THIS CASE WE'RE LOOKING AT 2010 TO 2025, UM, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE DATA WAS AVAILABLE, UM, AND RELIABLE FOR, FOR FAMILIES. UM, YOU SEE A POPULATION WAS JUST SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, BUT THE NUMBER OF HOUSEHOLDS INCREASED BY 6.2%. UM, SO WHAT ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS THAT OUR, OUR HOUSEHOLDS ARE GETTING SMALLER, UM, AS A RESULT OF THE FACT THAT THEY'RE GETTING OLDER AND HAVING FEWER CHILDREN. UM, SO ALSO IMPORTANT, AND YOU CAN SEE THAT HOUSEHOLDS WITH THEIR OWN CHILDREN IS LESS THAN 10%. HMM. SO, LOOKING AT HOUSEHOLD SIZE, IF YOU COMPARE US, UM, SEDONA TO THE STATE OF ARIZONA, YOU CAN SEE THAT PRIMARILY, YOU KNOW, A THIRD OF OUR POPULA, A THIRD OF OUR HOUSEHOLDS ARE ONE PERSON HOUSEHOLDS. UM, ALMOST HALF ARE TWO PERSON HOUSEHOLDS AND ONLY 17% ARE, UH, THREE PERSON OR HIGHER. UM, SO AGAIN, JUST REINFORCING THE FACT THAT WE ARE GETTING OLDER AND OUR HOUSEHOLDS ARE GETTING SMALLER, BUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE IDEA THAT THE COMMUNITY IS GROWING, IT'S GROWING, BUT IT'S GROWING BECAUSE THE NUMBER OF HOUSEHOLDS ARE GROWING. AND WE'LL TALK IN A MINUTE ABOUT THE NUMBER OF HOUSING UNITS. IT'S NOT BECAUSE YOUR POPULATION IS GETTING ANY HIGHER EDUCATION ENROLLMENT. UM, TAKING A LOOK AT WHERE WE STAND IN 2001, WE HAD 13,065 STUDENTS ENROLLED IN, UM, SEDONA OAK CREEK, UM, UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT. UM, TODAY WE ARE 49% LOWER WITH 695 STUDENTS, AND I THINK TOM IN OUR PRESENTATIONS SAID 6 94. SO I MAY BE OFF BY ONE WOW. UM, IN THE DATA, BUT A PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL DROP, UM, IN, IN OUR STUDENT ENROLLMENT, A TOTAL OF 917, UH, STUDENTS IN TOTAL ENROLLMENT WHEN WE INCLUDE THE CHARTER SCHOOL AND RUNNING RIVER SCHOOL. UM, SO THAT'S, UM, THAT'S PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL IN TERMS OF TOTAL SIZE OF, OF OUR STUDENT ENROLLMENT. UM, ON THE OTHER HAND, UM, OUR POPULATION THAT LIVES HERE IS REALLY WICKED SMART. UM, SO, UH, IN TERMS OF RESIDENTS WITH A BACHELOR'S OR GRADUATE DEGREE, YOU CAN SEE THAT WE ARE CERTAINLY, UM, HIGHEST IN THE VERDE VALLEY. UM, BUT OVERALL IT'S A, IT'S AN INCREDIBLY HIGH, UM, EDUCATION LEVEL. SO, AND THAT HAS BEEN CONSISTENT, UM, FOR THE LAST 25 YEARS. INCOME AND WEALTH, UM, IS A PRETTY INTERESTING STATISTIC. IF YOU LOOK AT THE AREA BETWEEN 50,000, AND THIS IS A HOUSEHOLD INCOME BY CATEGORY, UM, THE AREA WHERE PEOPLE ARE EARNING BETWEEN 50,000 AND UP TO 200,000 IS WHERE WE SEE A GAP IN IN OUR HOUSEHOLDS. UM, WE DO A GREAT JOB AT 200,000, UM, HOUSEHOLDS EARNING 200,000 OR HIGHER, UM, ALSO EARNING 50,000 OR LESS IN INCOME. BUT WHEN WE LOOK AT THE STATISTICS ABOVE, WHAT YOU'LL SEE IS PART OF THAT'S BECAUSE ONLY HALF OF OUR HOUSEHOLDS EARN A WAGE OR SALARY, 49% ARE ON SOCIAL SECURITY. SO OTHER INTERESTING STATS, ROUGHLY 40% ARE, ARE WORKING OFF INTEREST DIVIDENDS, NET RENTAL, ET CETERA. YOU KNOW, OVER A QUARTER ARE SELF-EMPLOYED. THESE NUMBERS ARE IMPORTANT BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA SHOW UP IN OUR INCOME LEVELS. SO, BUT THE IMPORTANT PART TO THIS IS WHO WE'RE MISSING. AND, UH, WE HAVE HEARD A LOT ABOUT, UM, WORKFORCE POPULATION AND THE NEED FOR WORKFORCE HOUSING. UM, IN THIS CASE THAT GOES ALL THE WAY UP TO 200,000 HOUSEHOLDS EARNING 200,000. SO IT'S, UH, PRETTY INCREDIBLE. SO I'M GONNA SKIP THIS AND KEEP GOING ON INDUSTRY AND OCCUPATION. WE CAN GO THROUGH THIS VERY QUICKLY JUST TO SHOW THAT. NO BIG SURPRISE. UM, MOST PEOPLE ARE EMPLOYED IN THE RETAIL, UH, TRADE AND SERVICES INDUSTRIES. WE ARE TRULY A TOURISM DRIVEN MARKET WORKERS IN COMMUTING. UM, IS, UH, IS AN INTERESTING FROM THE PERSPECTIVE THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THE EDUCATION LEVELS, UM, FOR INDIVIDUALS THAT, UM, THAT LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY AND COMPARE THAT TO THE EDUCATION LEVELS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE EMPLOYED WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, UM, YOU'LL SEE A SUBSTANTIAL NUMBER OF OUR, UM, EMPLOYEES ARE IN FACT, UM, 13% HAVE NO HIGH SCHOOL DEGREE, 21% [00:40:01] HAVE A HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA OR EQUIVALENT, UM, ET CETERA. SO IT'S, IT'S A PRETTY DIFFERENT MIX IN TERMS OF WHO OUR EMPLOYEES ARE, UM, VERSUS THE, UH, THE OVERALL POPULATION AS A WHOLE. 80% OF OUR COM OF OUR EMPLOYEES COMMUTE FROM OUT OF TOWN. SO ALSO VERY INTERESTING AND AN IMPORTANT POINT, UM, EMPLOYEE COMMUTE BY DISTANCE. UM, THIS IS THE ONE SINGLE STATISTIC THAT I WILL SAY IS THE LEAST DEFENSIBLE OF ALL OF OUR STATISTICS, AND I'LL EXPLAIN WHY. UM, THE DATA THAT WAS AVAILABLE WAS FROM 2022. UM, 2022 WAS IN THE HEART OF COVID. AND, UM, SO COMMUTING PATTERNS WERE RADICALLY DIFFERENT, UM, FOR PEOPLE WORKING AT HOME, ET CETERA. SO IF WE WERE TO TAKE A POLL TODAY, I THINK THESE NUMBERS WOULD SKEW SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. UM, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW, UM, BUT TO PUT THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE, NO BIG SURPRISE, COTTONWOOD WOULD BE THE NEXT HIGHEST. UM, VERDE VALLEY, VERDE VILLAGE, UM, AND VILLAGE OF OAK CREEK ARE THE BIG THREE. UM, AS FAR AS PLACES WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMMUTING FROM AS OF 2022, IN TERMS OF OUR GENERAL HOUSING SUPPLY, UM, AGAIN, JUST TO PUT THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE, WHILE OUR POPULATION HAS ACTUALLY SHRUNK BY 1.4% BETWEEN 2000 AND 2025, UM, OUR HOUSING UNITS HAVE GROWN BY 22%. SO, UM, AGAIN, WE SEE GROWTH IN THE COMMUNITY. IT'S NOT SHOWING UP IN YOUR POPULATION, IT'S SHOWING UP IN YOUR HOUSING UNITS. SO, UM, AND THAT SHOWS BY LOOKING AT RESIDENTIAL PARCELS BY OWNERSHIP, ROUGHLY 62% OF RESIDENT OR RESIDENTIAL PARCELS, UM, HAVE A MAILING ADDRESS IN SEDONA. THE OTHER ROUGHLY 38%, UM, ARE OUTSIDE OF OUR CITY. TO PUT THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE, UM, THE OTHER COMMUNITIES ARE GROWING IN TERMS OF HOUSING UNITS AT A FASTER RATE THAN WE ARE. SO EVEN THOUGH OUR RATE IS, OUR HOUSING GROWTH IS OCCURRING VERY QUICKLY, UM, COMPARED TO THE VERDE VALLEY COMMUNITIES LOOKING AT HOUSING GROWTH RATE DURING THAT SAME PERIOD, WE'RE ACTUALLY LAST. SO, UM, SO THE REST OF THE VERDE VALLEY IS ALSO COMING IN. SO, UM, TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE HOUSING NEEDS IN THE AREA IN TERMS OF HOUSING TENURE, UM, INTERESTING STATISTIC. IN 2000, UM, 23.8% OF OUR HOUSING UNITS WERE RENTER OCCUPIED, 63%, GENERALLY OWNER OCCUPIED, 13.3% WERE CONSIDERED VACANT. SO, UM, IF YOU LOOK AT 2025, THAT VACANT NUMBER HAS INCREASED TO 23.8%. NOW, WE ALL KNOW THAT THERE ARE NOT A QUARTER OF THE HOUSING UNITS THAT ARE VACANT. UM, VACANT IS DETERMINED AS THE PLACES WHERE PEOPLE DO NOT LIVE. IT'S NOT THEIR PRIMARY RESIDENCE AT THE TIME OF THE CENSUS. SO THAT INCLUDES YOUR SHORT TERM RENTALS, IT INCLUDE YOUR SECOND HOMES, UM, AS WELL AS PLACES THAT ARE VACANT. SO THAT NUMBER WOULD ACTUALLY BE, UH, SUBSTANTIALLY SMALLER, PARTICULARLY WHEN WE THINK THAT IN FACT, 18% OF OUR POP OF OUR HOUSEHOLDS ARE, ARE HOUSING UNITS IS CONSUMED BY SHORT-TERM RENTALS. SO JUST TO, JUST TO PUT THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE, UM, PERCENT OF HOUSING CLASSIFIED AS RENTER OCCUPIED WE'RE TOWARDS THE LOWER LEVEL VALUE AND AFFORDABILITY. YOU CAN SEE VERY QUICKLY WHAT HAPPENED AFTER COVID, UM, FOR OUR COMMUNITY, THE, UM, THE LINE IN ORANGE REPRESENTS THE AVERAGE SALES PRICE OVER, UM, OVER TIME IN COMPARISON TO SOME OF THE OTHER COMMUNITIES IN THE AREA. SO, UM, WE ALL THE OTHER COMMUNITIES ALSO SPIKED, UM, BUT WE REALLY SPIKED THE AVERAGE SALES PRICE. UM, FOR A HOME TODAY IS $886,000 OWNED HOUSING UNITS WITH A MORTGAGE. PUT THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE AGAIN, BECAUSE ONLY 53% OF OWNED HOUSING UNITS HERE HAVE A MORTGAGE IN TERMS OF SHORT TERM RENTALS. UM, FOR THE FIRST TIME WE HAVE MORE SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN, UH, IN THE AREA THAN WE DO LONG-TERM RENTALS. UH, 18.1% OF OUR HOUSING STOCK IS SHORT-TERM RENTALS. 17.6% IS DEDICATED TOWARDS LONG-TERM RENTALS. SO THAT'S BEEN A CHANGE. IT WAS ROUGHLY DOUBLING SINCE 2020 OF WHAT IT WAS. [00:45:01] WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL MARKET IS THE EVOLUTION OF THE MARKET. UM, WHEN IT FIRST IN 2020, UM, IT WAS STILL A RELATIVELY NEW PHENOMENON AND IT WAS STILL WHAT PEOPLE USED TO THINK OF AS AIRBNB WHERE YOU COULD RENT, UM, A UNIT OUT OF YOUR HOME. UH, YOU CAN RENT A AN APARTMENT. IT WAS A, IT WAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO SPEND THE NIGHT SOMEWHERE. UM, WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS A TRANSFORMATION IN THAT. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF SINGLE FAMILY HOMES THAT ARE NOW, UM, SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN 2020, THERE WERE 454 TODAY, THAT'S 1041. THAT'S LIKE 129% INCREASE, UM, IN THE NUMBER OF SINGLE FAMILY HOMES THAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN OVER AS, UH, SHORT TERM RENTALS. UM, ON THE OTHER HAND, THE SMALLER GROUPS, THE PRIVATE ROOMS, ET CETERA, WE'RE SEEING AN ACTUAL DECLINE IN THOSE BECAUSE THEY'RE BECOMING LESS INTERESTING, UM, AS A PLACE TO STAY. SO INTERESTINGLY, WE ARE ALSO NOW SEEING THE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES TRANSFORM TOO, BECAUSE IT'S MOVING FROM A PLACE TO STAY TO AN EXPERIENCE. SO NOW WE'RE STARTING TO SEE, AGAIN, NO BIG SURPRISE TO ANYONE HERE. UM, PEOPLE COME IN AND ASK TO CHANGE HOMES OR BUILD NEW HOMES WITH 7, 8, 9 BEDROOMS, UM, FOR PURPOSES OF PUTTING TOGETHER PARTIES, ET CETERA, HAPPENING WITHIN THE UNIT. SO, UM, EVEN WITHIN THE INDUSTRY IT'S CHANGING. UM, HOUSING TRAITS, JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA, NO BIG SURPRISE. WE ARE PRIMARILY SINGLE FAMILY. UM, WE DO HAVE SOME DUPLEX, MULTIFAMILY. OUR MULTIFAMILY IS FAIRLY LIMITED, UM, PARTICULARLY IN COMPARISON TO OTHER AREAS. UM, THE CONCEPT OF AT OBTAINABILITY IN 2025 AVERAGE, UM, OR AREA MEDIAN INCOME, UH, THE AMOUNT OF ANNUAL HOUSEHOLD INCOME NEEDED TO PURCHASE THE MEDIAN PURCHASE PRICE OF A SEDONA HOME IN 20 20 25, YOU HAD TO EARN AT LEAST $214,500 AS A HOUSEHOLD. UM, SO ROUGHLY TO ACHIEVE THAT, YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE AT LEAST 200% OR HIGHER OF THE AREA MEDIAN INCOME, UM, TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD A HOUSE HERE. IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT THAT MEANS, UM, WE TOOK THESE NUMBERS FROM VARIOUS DIFFERENT, UH, SURVEYS THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY. UM, IF YOU ARE A TEACHER AVERAGE, UH, WAGE COULD BE IN THE BALLPARK OF, OR, OR THAT IS EARNING ROUGHLY $53,000. YOU CAN AFFORD A HOME OF $173,000. THERE IS NOT A CHANCE FOR THAT INDIVIDUAL TO LIVE HERE. WHAT MAKES THAT INTERESTING IS THAT WHILE WE HAVE GROWN, SO HAVE THE OTHER COMMUNITIES GROWN IN TERMS OF, UH, UM, THE UNAFFORDABILITY. SO WHAT YOU'LL SEE IS IT'S BECOMING LESS AFFORDABLE EVEN IN THE REMAINING VERDE VALLEY COMMUNITIES FOR THAT TEACHER TO STAY WITHIN THE VERDE VALLEY. UM, IF YOU ARE A DOCTOR, UM, EARNING COMING OUTTA SCHOOL, BEEN OUT FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS, $188,000, YOU STILL CANNOT AFFORD THE MEDIAN SALES PRICE OF A HOME IN SEDONA. SO RECOGNIZING THE GAPS, UM, WHAT WE HAVE SEEN AS A RESULT OF ALL OF THE DATA IS ESSENTIALLY FOUR CATEGORIES, THREE OF WHICH ARE RELATED TO WORKING AGE POPULATION. UM, THE FIRST IS WORKING AGE POPULATION WITH CHILDREN. AND SIMPLE FACT IS LOOKING AT ALL THE DATA, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOSING OUR KIDS AND WE'RE LOSING OUR WORKING AGE FAMILIES, PERIOD. THE GAP THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER, BETWEEN 50,000 AND 200,000 WORKING AGE HOUSEHOLDS EARNING WITHIN THAT WAGE AREA. ALSO WORKING AGE, UM, POPULATION FOR OUR HOSPITALITY AND SERVICE WORKERS. YOU'VE SEEN THAT, UM, DISCUSSION BEFORE WITH THE PREVIOUS HOUSING NEEDS ASSESSMENTS. UM, AND THE FOURTH CATEGORY BEING COST BURDEN, SEDONA SENIORS. UM, YOU SAW THE STATISTIC FOR THE NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS LIVING OFF OF SOCIAL SECURITY. SO ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS LOSE ONE OF THOSE AND SUDDENLY YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE HERE ANYMORE EVEN THOUGH YOU'VE BEEN HERE FOR DECADES. SO, UM, THOSE WERE THE FOUR CATEGORIES THAT POPPED OUT THE HIGHEST. WE USE THAT DATA TO COME UP WITH A SERIES OF TARGETS, UM, TO SAY WHAT DO WE WANT TO BE AS A COMMUNITY? AND WHEN WE TALK TO PEOPLE GENERALLY SPEAKING ABOUT WHAT COMMUNITY LOOKS LIKE IN SEDONA, UM, WHAT THEY TALK ABOUT IS WHAT SEDONA LOOKED LIKE IN 2000, NOT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IN 2025. SO WE BASE SOME OF THESE TARGETS BASICALLY ON THE IDEA OF HOW CAN WE POSSIBLY GET BACK TO A LEVEL OF BALANCE THAT LOOKS A LOT MORE LIKE WHAT PEOPLE CONSIDERED A SENSE OF COMMUNITY FOR SEDONA. UM, FIRST OFF, TO BE ABLE TO STABILIZE AND INCREASE STUDENT POPULATION BY 50% OVER 10 YEARS, UM, THAT WOULD PUT US BACK TO [00:50:01] IN THE BALLPARK OF ABOUT A THOUSAND KIDS. UM, AND THEN WE HAVE A SERIES OF ADDITIONAL INCREASE. THE PERCENTAGE OF POPULATION THAT'S BELOW THE AGE OF 65 BACK UP TO 60%, UM, PERCENTAGE OF CRITICAL EMPLOYEES LIVING IN SEDONA BY AN ADDITIONAL 15%. THAT'S GONNA BE YOUR TEACHERS, YOUR POLICE, YOUR FIREFIGHTERS, UM, NURSE PRACTITIONERS, DOCTORS, THE TYPES OF PEOPLE THAT WE NEED TO SUPPORT OUR SCHOOL SYSTEMS, OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM, UM, AND OUR LOCAL QUALITY OF LIFE. OUR FIRST RESPONDERS. UM, THE REDUCE THE NUMBER OF COST BURDEN SENIORS BY ROUGHLY 35%, UM, REDUCE THE PERCENTAGE OF COST BURDEN, HOSPITALITY AND SERVICE HOUSEHOLDS BY 25%. REDUCE THE NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES THAT COMMUTE INTO SEDONA FROM ROUGHLY 80% TO 70%, NOT A BIG JUMP. UM, AND THEN WE'RE SUGGESTING THAT ROUGHLY HALF OF NEW UNITS BE OWNERSHIP OPPORTUNITIES. SO WHEN WE PUT THAT TOGETHER AND LOOKED AT WHAT THE NUMBERS TOLD US, THEN WE NEED ROUGHLY 775 HOUSEHOLDS. YOUR HOUSING NEEDS ASSESSMENT SAID YOU NEEDED 1800. SO LOOKING AT IT THIS WAY GIVES US A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE. WE LOOK AT IT THIS WAY BECAUSE IT'S ACHIEVABLE, BECAUSE WE ALSO HAVE TO NOT ONLY LOOK AT WHAT OUR NEEDS ARE, BUT WE HAVE TO BALANCE THAT AGAINST WHAT WE CAN DO WITHOUT IMPACTING THE LOCAL QUALITY OF LIFE AND SENSE OF COMMUNITY, UM, HERE IN THE COMMUNITY. SO DOES IT SAY THAT IT FIXES THE ENTIRE ISSUE? IT DOES NOT. UM, BUT THAT'S WHAT BALANCE IS ABOUT. SO OF THAT 775 UNITS, 175 WOULD BE DEDICATED TO SEDONA SENIORS, 600 WOULD BE WORKING AGE HOUSEHOLDS. WE TOOK A LOOK AT THIS AND COMPARED THE, AND LOOKED AT IT ACROSS THE SPECTRUM, WHAT DID WE NEED IN TERMS OF UNITS, UM, SIZES, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WHEN WE WERE LOOKING OFF OF THE HOUSING AND NEEDS ASSESSMENT, A LOT OF THAT WAS SKEWED TOWARDS, UM, STUDIO AND ONE BEDROOM UNITS. UM, WHAT WE'RE FINDING IS IF WE WANT TO ATTRACT HOUSEHOLDS WITH CHILDREN, THEN STUDIOS AREN'T WHAT YOU NEED. YOU NEED TO START LOOKING AT TWO BEDROOM, THREE BEDROOM, AND FOUR BEDROOM UNITS. AND SO WE'VE MADE ESTIMATES BASED OFF OF THAT, UM, TO, UH, TO ESSENTIALLY RIGHT SIZE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IN TERMS OF NEW HOUSING UNITS. SO I THINK I'LL SKIP THE NEXT SLIDE. IS THERE MORE? OKAY. THIS LAST SLIDE, LAST TWO SLIDES, SHOW US, UM, WHAT'S CURRENTLY ON THE BOOKS 221. 221 UNITS HAVE ALREADY BEEN APPROVED IN SOME FORM OR FASHION. UM, AND THAT CONSISTS OF ALCHEMIST, NAVAJO LOFTS VILLAGE AT SADDLEBROOK CROSS SADDLE ROCK CROSSING, UH, VILLAS ON SHELBY, AND, UH, GOODROW HOUSING IN JORDAN TOWN HOMES TOTAL OF 220 21 UNITS. SO YOU CAN TAKE THAT 221 UNITS FOR THE MOST PART OFF OF THAT 775. AGAIN, MAKES IT A LOT MORE REALISTIC. YOU'VE GOT 500 TO GO ROUGHLY. SO, AND THEN THE LAST PIECE IS JUST A MAP SHOWING WHERE THOSE, UH, DEVELOPMENTS ARE. AND I DO APOLOGIZE, I SAID I WOULD GO THROUGH THIS A LITTLE BIT QUICKER. I THINK I ACTUALLY ENDED UP GOING LONGER, SO MY APOLOGIES FOR THAT. . THANK YOU, TONY. OKAY, LET'S BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION QUESTIONS. I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS. FIRST OF ALL, ALCHEMIST MM-HMM . WAS IT REALLY, IT'S NOT WORKFORCE HOUSING AS I RECALL. IT IS, YEAH. BEHIND IT, THE BACK. OKAY. I JUST DIDN'T RE I SURE I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE PRI I DIDN'T THINK THE PRICING WAS, OH, IT'S NOT DEED RESTRICTED FOR AFFORDABILITY, BUT IT IS REQUIRED TO BE LONG TERM HOUSING. LONG TERM, RIGHT? YEAH. WHICH, OKAY. I JUST, I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T GET IT AS WORKFORCE. YEAH. BUT, BUT YOU BRING UP A GOOD POINT AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, SO NAVAJO LOSS COULD BE CONSIDERED THE SAME WAY. UM, BUT WHEN WE LOOK AT THE NEED GOING UP TO HOUSEHOLDS EARNING $200,000 MM-HMM . THEN NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT 200% OF THE A MI. SO, AND IN THOSE CASES, NAVAJO LOFTS ACTUALLY FITS. IT'S NOT TO SAY WE WANNA STAY RIGHT THERE WITH ALL OF THE HOUSING, WE REALIZE WE HAVE A SPECTRUM THAT WE NEED TO ACHIEVE, BUT, UM, WE, WE HAD TO INCLUDE, RIGHT NOW OUR COMMUNITY LOOKS AT 150% BETWEEN 80% AND 150% OF A MI AS WORKFORCE HOUSING. UM, WHAT WE HAD TO DO WAS RECOGNIZE THAT THAT LOWER LEVEL OF MARKET RATE IS ALSO CRITICAL TO OUR COMMUNITY, AND WE NEEDED TO CONSIDER THAT AS WELL, UH, IN TERMS OF ATTRACTING SOME MORE OF THAT AS WELL. CAN YOU REPEAT THAT ON THE PERCENTAGE OF THE A MI PLEASE? YEAH, YOU BET. SO 80% OF A MI TO 150% OF A MI IS CONSIDERED IN SEDONA TO BE WORKFORCE HOUSING NATIONALLY. THAT THOSE NUMBERS ARE 80% TO 120%, BUT WE ARE EXPENSIVE. SO, UM, [00:55:01] THAT'S THE REASON IT WAS INCREASED TO 150%. OKAY. SO JUST ANOTHER QUESTION I'M, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND ON THE SENIOR HOUSING MM-HMM . UM, AND LIKE, WE'RE, I GUESS GONNA PUT SOME ENERGY INTO, OR THE DESIRE IS TO HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT AVAILABLE, UH, I GUESS WHERE PEOPLE CAN, I MEAN, WE DON'T HAVE SEEM TO HAVE ANY ISSUE ON HAVING SENIORS HERE, RIGHT. AS A SUPER SENIOR. I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M ALL FOR SENIORS, BUT I CAN AFFORD TO LIVE HERE. SURE. AND, UM, I MEAN, I THINK THE ACTUAL TRUTH IS NOT EVERYBODY CAN AFFORD TO LIVE HERE. RIGHT? AND IF WE'RE TRYING TO BRING IN AND ALLOW TEACHERS TO LIVE HERE, OUR POLICE OFFICERS TO LIVE HERE, OUR FIREFIGHTERS TO LIVE HERE, UH, AND ANYONE THAT WORKS IN SEDONA, IT SEEMS, ISN'T THAT, SHOULDN'T THAT BE THE BIGGEST PRIORITY? YEAH. THAT'S WHY YOU SEE 600 OF THE UNITS DEDICATED TOWARDS THAT AND 175 DE DEDICATED TO SEDONA SENIORS. AND THAT'S SPECIFIC TO SENIORS WITHIN SEDONA WHOSE CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE CHANGED AND THEY ARE NOW COST BURDEN, SO THEY CAN'T TRULY AFFORD TO LIVE IN THE PLACE THEY ARE CURRENTLY IN. MM-HMM . SO IF WE CREATE, AND THIS WORKS TWOFOLD. ONE, IT GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY FOR INDIVIDUALS THAT COULD NEED ASSISTED LIVING. IT'S ALSO FOR INDIVIDUALS THAT COULD JUST NEED A PLACE THAT DOES NOT COST AS MUCH. AND SO THE, SO WE'RE ABLE TO HELP COST BURDEN SENIORS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME THAT HOUSING UNIT THAT MAY BE TOO MUCH FOR THEM COULD THEN POTENTIALLY COME BACK ONTO THE MARKET AND COULD THEN BE USED AS PART OF OUR SUPPLY. SO IT WORKS BOTH WAYS. UM, THAT'S PART OF THE REASON THAT WE FOC AND WE FOCUS SPECIFICALLY ON PEOPLE LIVING IN SEDONA. UM, AS FAR AS SENIORS, IT'S, IT'S NOT OUR INTENTION TO TRY TO ATTRACT NEW SENIORS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT 175 UNITS. SO IF THAT MAKES SENSE. BUT PART OF IT IS TO, IS TO FIND QUALITY OF LIFE, MAINTAIN QUALITY OF LIFE, AND GIVE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO STAY HERE IN SEDONA. THEY'VE DEDICATED DECADES HERE ANYWAY. UM, SO LET'S TRY TO BE ABLE TO KEEP THEM THERE AND KEEP IT IN A, IN A PLACE THAT THEY CAN COMFORTABLY LIVE. UM, BUT THEN LET'S ALSO PUT THAT HOUSE THAT THEY'RE CURRENTLY LIVING IN BACK TO WORK, UH, WITHIN THE MARKET. AND HOW DO YOU PROPOSE TO DO THAT? YEAH, BECAUSE I, I, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S REALLY THE CITY'S PLACE TO HELP ME LIVE BETTER MM-HMM . AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THE CITY'S PLACE TO TAKE MY HOUSE AND PUT IT BACK INTO THE, INTO THE SUPPLY CHAIN. SO IT'S NOT THAT WE WOULD NECESSARILY DO SOMETHING WITH THE HOUSE AS MUCH AS THE MARKET WILL DO ITS JOB. SO THAT'S WHY, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH 175 HOUSEHOLDS, WE ARE ANTICIPATING INITIALLY IN THE PRESENTATION, I WAS EXPECTING THAT ROUGHLY 88 OF THOSE WOULD GO BACK INTO THE MARKET AT MARKET RATE. UM, WE HAVE REDUCED THAT NUMBER NOW, ACTUALLY DOWN TO HALF AGAIN. SO IT'S NOW DOWN TO 44. UM, BECAUSE WE RECOGNIZE THAT ONE, WE DON'T CONTROL THE MARKET, UM, AND WE'RE NOT TRYING TO CONTROL THE MARKET. SO, UM, FROM THAT STANDPOINT, SOME OF THOSE UNITS WILL COME BACK AT AN AFFORDABLE RATE OR RELATIVELY AFFORDABLE RATE, BUT A LOT OF THEM WON'T. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, AND SOME OF 'EM ARE GONNA BECOME SHORT TERM RENTALS, SOME OF 'EM ARE GONNA BECOME UNAFFORDABLE, YOU KNOW, MARKET RATE UNITS. SO THAT'S THE NATURE OF THE MARKET. SO OUR INTENTION IS NOT NECESS NOT AS MUCH TO WORRY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS TO THE UNIT, ALTHOUGH WE'D LOVE TO SEE SOME OF THEM COME BACK AS AFFORDABLE, UM, AS MUCH AS TO SAY THAT WE HAVE COST BURDEN SENIORS THAT HAVE A QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUE AND WE'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THAT. ARE, ARE YOU KIND OF DESCRIBING WHAT THE TRADITIONAL IDEA OF DOWNSIZING, RIGHT? YEAH. THAT'S, WE'RE SEEING THAT IN THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE, IS THAT PEOPLE AREN'T DOWNSIZING. SO THOSE STARTER HOMES AREN'T BECOMING THE GROWING HOMES, NOT STARTER HOMES. THEY'RE NOT GROWING, THE GROWING HOMES AREN'T BECOMING AVAILABLE BECAUSE THERE'S NOT AS MUCH. SO WHAT I HEAR YOU SAYING ISN'T NECESSARILY LIKE SENIORS GET OUT, GO LIVE IN STRUCTURED HOMES, BUT LIKE THE CONCEPT OF A POTENTIAL DOWNSIZE, WHICH IS COMPLICATED IN IN TOWN WHEN OUR AVERAGE HOME SIZE IS BIG, BIG. EXACTLY. AND THAT'S SO THE, YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT. COLLIE. THE, THE IDEA IS NOT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF TRYING TO CHASE PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR HOMES. UM, THE NUMBER OF HOUSEHOLDS, SENIOR HOUSEHOLDS HERE THAT ARE COST BURDENED IS SUBSTANTIALLY HIGHER THAN THE NUMBER WE'RE TARGETING. UM, WHAT WE ARE SUGGESTING IS THAT, AND, AND IN TALKING TO PEOPLE, IT'S BEEN VERY CLEAR. PEOPLE HAVE SAID, YOU KNOW, WE LOVE OUR HOMES. WE REALLY DON'T WANT TO LEAVE. AND, UH, UM, AND WE, WE UNDERSTAND THAT AND RESPECT THAT. UM, WE ALSO KNOW THAT FOR SOME PEOPLE IT'S JUST THAT CAN'T BE SUSTAINABLE. BUT WHERE, BUT REALLY IT'S NOT REALLY THE GOVERNMENT'S JOB TO, HOW DOES THE CITY OF [01:00:01] SEDONA HELP A COST BURDEN SENIOR CITIZEN LIVING IN A HOUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD? THEY DON'T, THEY SELL THE HOUSE AND THEY MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE, RIGHT? THEY PASS AWAY, IT GOES TO THEIR KIDS AND THEN THEY FIGHT OVER IT, OR THEY SELL IT, OR THEY KEEP IT AS A VACATION HOME. SO I HEAR WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM MM-HMM . BUT, UH, AND, AND I SOUND HOSTILE. I DON'T MEAN TO, BUT, UM, SOME OF THESE IDEAS ARE, ARE QUITE INTERESTING. I MEAN, I, MY FIRST I DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ON THE STATISTICS AND YOUR THEORIES AND, AND THE ACTION PLANS. UM, WHEN YOU GRAB THE 2025 CENSUS DATA, THAT'S ALL ESTIMATED, CORRECT. SO IT IS, WE USE, UM, ALL OF OUR DATA, UM, EXCEPT FOR A COUPLE SMALL, UM, DIFFERENCES MM-HMM . AND I'M HAPPY TO GO THROUGH THOSE. OUR U WE USE ESRI MM-HMM . AS OUR DATA SOURCE. OKAY. UM, WE DO THAT BECAUSE IT'S THE MOST DEFENSIBLE OF THE ESTIMATES WE CAN GET. UM, GIVE YOU A GOOD EXAMPLE. WHEN WE WERE PRESENTING TO CITY COUNCIL, UM, AN INDIVIDUAL, UM, PRESENTED, UM, A DIFFERENT MEDIAN AGE MM-HMM . UM, VIA THE CENSUS MM-HMM . 2020 CENSUS. IF YOU LOOK ONLINE, WE'LL SHOW YOU THAT OUR MEDIAN AGE IS 58.1, NOT 60 SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE. RIGHT, RIGHT. UM, BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO RECOGNIZE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT WERE GOING ON WITH THE CENSUS IN DURING THAT TIME. UM, ONE COVID, RIGHT. UM, TWO, THE FACT THAT IMPACTS OF CHANGES ARE MOST IMPACTFUL AMONG SMALL COMMUNITIES. SO IF THERE ARE ERRORS, THOSE ERRORS ARE GREATER IN SMALLER COMMUNITIES. WHAT ESRI DOES IS ESRI LOOKS AT THE DATA THAT'S AVAILABLE AND THEN IT LOOKS AT OTHER DATA SOURCES, AND IT TENDS TO SMOOTH OVER, UM, NUMBERS THAT LOOK LIKE THEY COULD BE ANOMALIES AND GIVES US, UM, ADDITIONAL DATA THAT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE DEFENSIBLE. UM, GENERALLY SPEAKING, IF YOU LOOK AT MOST OF ESRI'S DATA AND COMPARE THAT TO THE CENSUS, IT'S USUALLY PRETTY CLOSE. BUT, UM, THERE ARE INSTANCES, MEDIAN AGE BEING ONE OF THEM, UM, WHERE THERE'S, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE AND IT'S A NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE. UM, ANOTHER THING THAT WE LIKE ABOUT ESRI DATA IS THAT, UM, ESRI USES THE CENSUS DATA, BUT IT ALSO APPLIES A MARGIN OF ERROR, UM, TO THE CENSUS DATA. SO FOR CERTAIN ESTIMATES, UM, SAY FOR EXAMPLE SOME OF THE AMERICAN COMMUNITY SURVEY ESTIMATES, UM, THAT ARE AVAILABLE ONLINE, UM, ESRI GIVES US THE MARGIN OF ERROR FOR THOSE. AND, AND FOR A CITY OF OUR SIZE, SOMETIMES THOSE CAN BE ANYWHERE BETWEEN 30% TO A HUNDRED PERCENT ORIGIN OF ERROR. MM-HMM. RIGHT. SO, AND IN THOSE CASES, WE DO NOT USE THAT DATA. RIGHT. SO, SO I MEAN, I JUST SEE, I, I UNDERSTAND PROJECTIONS AND ESTIMATES, AND I GET THAT FROM A FINANCIAL CAPA, YOU KNOW, CAPACITY BEING MY WORLD, BUT I'M ALSO SEEING CHANGES LOCALLY THAT JUST KIND OF DON'T ADD UP. LIKE, I, IN MY SUBDIVISION WITHIN THE PAST YEAR, I HAVE FIVE, YOU KNOW, 110 PROPERTIES. WE HAVE FIVE RESIDENTS WITH CHILDREN THAT HAVE MOVED IN MM-HMM . FIVE FAMILIES. YEAH. SO THAT'S A QUICK TURNOVER FOR THAT SMALL COMMUNITY. IT'S A LARGE PERCENTAGE WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW MANY UNITS THERE ARE. YEAH. AND SO I'M ALSO SEEING THE MEAN AGE IN THAT SUBDIVISION DROPPING AND KEEP DROPPING MM-HMM . AND SO, I, I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY YOUR DATA'S WRONG. I'M, I'M NOT SURE, BUT I, I DO FEEL LIKE SEDONA IS LIKE, ITS OWN LITTLE WEIRDNESS ABOUT IT. AND, AND IT'S A TOURIST TOWN AND YOUR, THE INCOME, THE NUMBERS ON THE INCOME, I CAN UNDERSTAND AND I CAN SEE THAT. UM, AND SO I APPRECIATE YOU EXPLAINING, YOU KNOW, THE DATA THAT YOU, THAT YOU DO USE FOR YOUR ESTIMATE. AND, AND, AND, AND WE'VE ALWAYS HAD TO USE THAT DATA, RIGHT. BECAUSE THIS MID CENSUS IS A HARD TIME. YEAH. RIGHT. BECAUSE MID-SENTENCE IS ALWAYS A HARD TIME AND, AND YOU DON'T WANNA PAY FOR A NEW CENSUS, MID, MID, MID, MID, MID TIME CENSUS, THAT'S FOR SURE. UM, I HEAR YOUR 10 YEAR TARGETS, AND I UNDERSTAND IT, BUT I, I DON'T FEEL, OR IS THERE AN, AN AGENDA ITEM COMING FROM THE COUNCIL THAT IS INTERESTED IN INCREASING CRITICAL EMPLOYMENT AND LIVING IN SEDONA BY 15% BECAUSE THAT, THAT, THAT'S A FINANCIAL COMMITMENT BY THE CITY TO PURCHASE PROPERTIES AND TO CREATE A, CREATE A OWN TO BUY WORK HERE KIND OF DEAL. UM, OTHER, AS, YOU KNOW, OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE THE SAME ISSUE, DO THE CITIES DO OWN PROPERTY AND THEIR EMPLOYEES DO BUY THEM, AND THERE'S A BUNCH OF RULES AND THAT KIND OF STUFF. BUT CITY DOESN'T DO THAT HERE. UM, HAVE, WHEN YOU'RE, I KNOW YOU'RE, WE'RE LIKE THE NEAR THE END OF THE PRESENTATION ON THE PUBLIC PEOPLE, BUT, UM, WHAT'S COUNCILS FEEL ABOUT THIS? ARE THEY, I MEAN, I KNOW THEY'RE WILLING TO GIVE MONEY TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, BUT ARE THEY WILLING TO GIVE MONEY TO THEIR EMPLOYEES TO BUY HOMES? YOU KNOW, IT'S A GOOD QUESTION. AND SO WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO [01:05:01] THE STRATEGIES OKAY. TO THE POINT WHERE THERE ARE DECISIONS TO MAKE. YEAH. UM, WE'VE PRESENTED THE DATA JUST SO THAT THE DATA, SO THAT EVERYBODY IS AWARE RIGHT. OF WHERE THOSE SOLUTIONS WOULD COME FROM. UM, OBVIOUSLY WE LOOKED TO COUNCIL TO, UM, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT OFF BASE ON SOME OF OUR TARGETS. RIGHT. AND MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT BEING, YOU KNOW, ONE, WE WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT UNREALISTIC, UM, ON WHAT WE CAN ACHIEVE OVER 10 YEARS. UM, BUT THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT, THE HARD PART IS THE NEXT STEP IS SAYING, OKAY, HOW DO WE DO THIS? IF THESE ARE OUR TARGETS, HOW DO WE MAKE 'EM POSSIBLE? PARTICULARLY IF WE ARE LOOKING AT TEACHERS, FIREFIGHTERS, POLICE OFFICERS, ET CETERA. RIGHT. UM, SO YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. UM, AND JOE, I DIDN'T MEAN TO, AND I APOLOGIZE IF I OVERSTEPPED ON THE, UH, ON THE, ON THE DATA TOO, BECAUSE IT IS IMPORTANT TO REALIZE AS YOU'RE, AS YOU'RE POINTING OUT, I MEAN, ANYTHING THAT'S CALLED AN ESTIMATE IS A PROFESSIONAL BEST GUESS. RIGHT? RIGHT. MM-HMM . SO WE JUST TRY TO CHOOSE THE BEST PROFESSIONAL, BEST GUESS WE CAN GET OUR HANDS ON. WELL, AND YOU KNOW, THIS HOUSING ISSUE FOR THE CITY OF SEDONA HAS PLAGUED IT. AND, AND THE CITY HAS TRIED TO COME UP WITH A PLAN SINCE 2020. SURE. AND IT'S SPENT LOTS OF MONEY, LOTS OF CONSULTANTS, AND EVERYONE HAS A DIFFERENT THOUGHT PROCESS. THE END RESULT IS ALWAYS DIFFERENT. YEAH. BUT THE OUTCOMES ARE VERY SIMILAR. MEANING WE NEED HOUSING FOR TEACHERS TO DOCTORS, FIREFIGHTERS, POLICE OFFICERS. WE WANT PEOPLE TO COMMUTE LESS. UM, AND, UM, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE POPULATION DECREASE. I'M, I'M NOT GONNA GET INTO THAT. AND THEN OF COURSE, NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT STUDENT ENROLLMENT MM-HMM . UM, BUT THE PROBLEM, WE STILL DON'T HAVE A, YOU DON'T STILL HAVE A GOAL, AND THIS ISN'T YOUR FAULT. AND IT'S, IT'S DIFFICULT FOR COUNCIL TO GRASP, UM, BECAUSE IT, IT TAKES A, A, I FEEL IT TAKES A FISCAL COMMITMENT FROM THE CITY GOVERNMENT TO PROVIDE HOUSING. AND SO I THINK THAT THAT'S, THAT'S THE BIGGER ISSUE HERE. UM, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU, HAD YOU, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU STATED, YOU SAID THAT THERE WERE SURVEYS THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY THAT ASKED PEOPLE WHAT THEIR WAGES WERE AND HOW MANY PEOPLE LIVED IN THEIR COMMUNITY. DO YOU KNOW WHEN THAT DATA WAS ACCUMULATED OR WHEN THAT THOSE SURVEYS WENT OUT? YEAR? SO THE SURVEYS I'M SPEAKING OF ARE SPECIFICALLY WAGE, RE WAGE RELATED SURVEYS. RIGHT. UM, AND SO THE WAGE RELATED SURVEYS THAT WE USED HERE, UM, ARE FROM THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. THEY WERE DONE IN 2025. 25. OKAY. YEAH. UM, SO, SO IT JUST WENT TO THE LIKE CHAMBER OF MEMBERS? YES. OKAY. AND WE DID, UM, WELL, I CAN'T SAY THAT WITH CERTAINTY 'CAUSE IT WASN'T MY, MY SURVEY. RIGHT. OKAY. THE, THERE WERE A COUPLE OF THE, UM, AND THAT WAS MEANT SPECIFICALLY MORE TOWARDS HOSPITALITY, ET CETERA. RIGHT. SO FOR OTHER DATA SOURCES, UM, FOR EXAMPLE, THE SCHOOL DISTRICT WENT TO THEIR WEBSITE, UM, AND THEY HAVE THE WAGE TIERS THAT WE WERE ABLE TO USE. UM, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED TO, UH, LEADERSHIP HERE IN THE CITY AND WITH THE FIRE DISTRICT RIGHT. TO GET THEIR DATA, UM, FOR DATA RELATED TO HEALTHCARE. UM, WE UTILIZED DATA THAT WAS AVAILABLE FOR YAVAPAI AND COTO COUNTIES. OKAY. AND, UH, AND CAME UP WITH, AGAIN, A PROFESSIONAL BEST GUESS. UM, THAT NUMBER WOULD ACTUALLY END UP BEING A LITTLE BIT HIGHER IN SEDONA. RIGHT. UM, BUT WE STUCK WITH THE RELIABLE DATA. AND AS WE DEVELOPED THIS HOUSING PLAN, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU POINTED OUT SEVERAL TIMES THAT THE ESTIMATE, THE ESTIMATE THAT CAME UP FROM THE OTHER CONSULTANTS JUST LAST YEAR WAS AT 1800. AND IN THIS ANALYSIS NOW SAYS IT'S 770 UNITS. YEAH. IS THAT REALLY RELEVANT? WELL, IT'S NOT TO TAKE AWAY ANYTHING FROM THE HOUSING NEEDS ASSESSMENT. NO, NO, NO. BUT I MEAN, IS IT REALLY RELEVANT TO KNOW, FOR US TO KNOW HOW MANY ARE MISSING? I MEAN, WE KNOW WE NEED MISSING MIDDLE. YEAH. AND I KNOW THAT, I KNOW THAT THERE'S SOME COUNSELORS THAT ARE LIKE, WELL, I NEED TO KNOW EXACTLY HOW MANY, WHICH IS IS A AMBIGUOUS QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S ALL BEST GUESS. RIGHT. YEP. THAT'S BEST PROFESSIONAL ESTIMATE. THERE YOU GO. . UM, AND SO I, I SEE THE PROJECTS THAT ARE GOING IN, BUT I KNOW THAT THE, I THINK THE, EVEN THE, SOME OF THESE THEY'RE STARTING IS AT 200, 220, THESE NEW PROJECTS, A HUNDRED THOU, YOU KNOW, 220,000 OR MORE. AND THEY, I AM, I THINK IT'S REALLY FASCINATING. I READ IT AS SOON AS YOU RELEASED IT. MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, I GOT A LITTLE EMAIL AND I READ IT. I FIND IT REALLY FASCINATING. BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW WE'RE GONNA MAKE THIS HAPPEN. AND, AND WE'RE ALREADY THINKING ABOUT COMMITTING TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, BUT WE'RE STILL NOT COMMITTING TO THE PEOPLE WHO WORK. AND THEN, THEN WHAT HAPPENS IS WE LOSE THESE PEOPLE. SURE. HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE LEFT THE CITY OF SEDONA IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS? A LOT. SURE. AND, AND WE NEED TO RETAIN THOSE PEOPLE. AND PART OF IT IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE HOUSING OR THEY'RE COMMUTING. YEAH. AND THAT, THAT IS GOING TO BE WHERE THE, THE STRATEGIES, UM, COME INTO PLAY BECAUSE YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. UM, IF WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE SOME [01:10:01] LEVEL OF CONTROL OF AFFORDABILITY, THERE'S ONLY A FEW TOOLS THE STATE OF ARIZONA ALLOWS. RIGHT. UM, SO WE'LL TRY TO MAKE THE BEST USE OF ALL OF THEM, BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S GONNA REQUIRE PUBLIC COMMITMENT, UM, TO GET TO A CERTAIN LEVEL. RIGHT. RIGHT. GREAT. THANK YOU FOR TOLERATING MY INQUISITIVE QUESTIONS. APPRECIATE IT FOR PUTTING UP WITH MY LONG-WINDED PRESENTATION. MM-HMM . I HAVE A QUESTION TO, I MEAN, THIS REPORT IS INCREDIBLY SOBERING. UM, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I HAD THAT JOE POINTED OUT, YOU KNOW, HOW DID WE GET FROM 1800 TO 600? WHAT CHANGED IN THE DATA SET OR THE ANALYSIS? SO THERE WERE, THERE WERE A COUPLE THINGS DIFFERENT AND, AND REALLY IT'S A DIFFERENCE IN PHILOSOPHY MM-HMM . UM, IN THE WAY WE LOOK AT THINGS, WHEN WE LOOK AT, SO YOUR HOUSING NEEDS ASSESSMENT, UM, WAS INTENDED TO LOOK AT COST BURDENED HOUSEHOLDS. RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT ITS DRIVER WAS, WAS TO DETERMINE THE NUMBER OF, OF HOUSEHOLDS, UM, WITHIN THE AREA THAT WOULD WANT TO LIVE IN SEDONA THAT HAVE COST BURDEN. AND SO, AND THAT'S WHERE THE NUMBER, WHERE THEIR NUMBER COMES FROM. IT'S, UM, UM, IT'S BASED OFF OF A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT VARIABLES THAT, UM, THAT ARE INTENDED TO, TO REACH THAT GOAL. UM, THE BALANCED HOUSING STRATEGY DOESN'T LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF COST BURDEN HOUSEHOLDS EXCLUSIVELY. IT LOOKS AT THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE. AND IT STARTS TO SAY, OKAY, WHO ARE WE AS A COMMUNITY? WHO DO WE WANT TO BE AS A COMMUNITY MM-HMM . UM, AND WHAT'S MISSING? WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO GET THERE TO, TO LOOK LIKE THAT? UM, WHEN, WHEN WE HEAR PEOPLE SAY THEY WANT TO HEAR THE VOICES OF CHILDREN AGAIN, RIGHT. UM, THERE'S ONLY ONE WAY TO DO THAT. UM, SO WE NEED TO BE INTENTIONAL IN THAT. AND SO THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE, IS WE LOOKED AT THE GAPS AND THE INTENTIONAL, UM, MEANS IT WOULD TAKE TO FILL THOSE GAPS. AND THEN WE COUPLE THAT AGAINST THE QUALITY OF LIFE THAT THE COMMUNITY ENJOYS. BECAUSE YOU CAN ALSO, LIKE RIGHT NOW, IF WE, WE ARE IN AN IMBALANCE, UM, BECAUSE WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, PLACES THAT ARE MISSING AND WE'RE SEEING IT WHERE THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, UM, ENROLLMENT IS DECLINING, WHERE WE'RE SEEING HEALTHCARE, UM, YOU KNOW, MOVING OUT OF THE COMMUNITY. UM, OUR DAILY SERVICES, UM, OPERATIONS ARE CHANGING OVER TO TOURISM BASED OPERATIONS. SO THE THINGS THAT WOULD NORMALLY BE COMMUNITY, UM, BASED INSTITUTIONS ARE HOLLOWING OUT OF THE COMMUNITY. AND SO, UM, SO WE ARE IN BALANCE HERE, BUT IF YOU GO TO THE OTHER EXTREME AND GO ON A HOUSING BUILDING SPREE, UM, TO TRY TO GET 900, A THOUSAND NEW UNITS, YOU ARE DOING THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THINGS. AND SO IN THAT CASE, WHEN YOU GO INTO WHAT I'LL CALL, CALL A HYPER GROWTH MODE, THEN YOU ARE ALSO PUTTING ADDED BURDEN ON YOUR TRANSPORTATION NETWORK, YOUR INFRASTRUCTURE NETWORK, AND YOUR PARK SYSTEM, ET CETERA. IT TAKES IT TO THE OTHER EXTREME. SO WHAT WE TRY TO DO IS SAY, WHAT CAN WE DO OVER THE COURSE OF 10 YEARS THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY NEGATIVELY IMPACT THE COMMUNITY? IT HELPS US ACHIEVE OUR BALANCE, BUT IT DOESN'T TAKE US OUT OF WHACK. SO, UM, PLUS WE ALSO HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT, YOU KNOW, BRINGING IN HOUSEHOLDS, SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE HAVE TO LOOK FOR ADDITIONAL JOBS. AND SO THERE'S ONLY SO MANY JOBS IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT ARE NOT RELATED TO TOURISM AND SERVICES. SO WE ALSO HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S A THRESHOLD THERE IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF HOUSEHOLDS WE CAN BRING IN WITHOUT DIVERSIFYING OUR ECONOMY, QUITE FRANKLY. CAN I ASK A DATA QUESTION? SORRY. IT'S OKAY. UH, DO YOU KNOW IN YOUR SCHOOL DATA IF, UH, CHARTER AND WEST AND THE S CREEK SCHOOL DISTRICT INCLUDED THEIR PRESCHOOLS? IF I DON'T ON THE TOTAL NUMBER? YEAH. YEAH. I DO NOT. I COULD I ASK THAT YOU FOLLOW UP ABOUT PRESCHOOL NUMBERS? 'CAUSE IF THEY DIDN'T INCLUDE THEM, FINE. BUT IF THEY DID, YOU'RE MISSING PRESCHOOLS YEAH. TO INCLUDE, BECAUSE OUR NUMBERS ARE SO LOW. I THINK IF YOU'RE MISSING THE UNDER FIVE POPULATION, I ACTUALLY THINK YOU'RE MISSING SOME CLARIFICATION. 'CAUSE THERE'S SEVERAL OTHER PRESCHOOLS THAT ARE RUNNING. SO IF THEY'RE INCLUDED IN THE BIG DATA SET, THEN YOU SHOULD GRAB THE OTHER STUFF. IF THEY'RE NOT, THEN MAYBE CLARIFY THAT THEY'RE NOT INCLUDED. AND SURE. FOR YOUR OWN KNOWLEDGE UNDER FIVE MIGHT BE INTERESTING. YEAH. UM, I AM GOING TO COMMENT 'CAUSE I GO TO CHARTER. I KNOW THERE'S 60 UPPER AND LOWER ISH, THEY'RE NOT QUITE THAT THRESHOLD. AND THEN THERE'S HOWEVER MANY. SO I THINK THE NUMBER 23, I THINK IN PRE, I FEEL LIKE THAT NUMBER PROBABLY DOES INCLUDE, I WOULD GUESS THAT SEDONA OAK CREEK SCHOOL DISTRICT AND CHARTER INCLUDED PRESCHOOL, WHICH MEANS YOU NEED TO GRAB RUNNING RIVERS, PRESCHOOL, SONSONA, MONTESSORI PRESCHOOL, AND PRECIOUS STONES, PRESCHOOL NUMBERS. YEAH. THAT JUST MAKE SURE YOU HAVE YEAH. 'CAUSE IT DOES FEEL LIKE THERE'S MORE THE UNDER FIVE POPULATION FROM THE PERSON IN THE UNDER FIVE WORLD. SO SKEWED IT'S BONE, IT, IT FEELS GIGANTIC. YEAH. [01:15:01] RECENTLY I WAS LIKE, THOSE IS BABIES. I HAVEN'T SEEN BABIES IN A LONG, THERE'S A LOT. SURE. THE WAIT LIST, YOU COULD ASK THE SCHOOLS FOR THEIR WAIT LIST FOR PRESCHOOL, BECAUSE I KNOW CHARTER HAS 25 ON THEIR WAIT LIST AND THEY OPEN THE PROGRAM IN FEBRUARY. RIGHT. SO LIKE, THAT FEELS STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT AT 600 AND WHATEVER STUDENTS, 500 AND WHATEVER. SURE. UM, SO THAT WAS THE DATA OF CLARIFICATION, I THINK WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE. WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT IT. WELL, WELL JUST THE NUMBERS ON AND WE'RE BRINGING MORE, OUR GOAL WAS TO BRING MORE CHILDREN IN MM-HMM . MORE INTO SCHOOL. UM, THEN WE OBVIOUSLY WE'RE GONNA NEED MORE HOMES FOR TEACHERS. YEAH. UH, AND THAT'S, THAT'S ALL FACTORED INTO, UH, YOUR NUMBERS. YES. ABSOLUTELY. AND WHEN TALKING TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT TOO, UM, THEY DID A GREAT PRESENTATION, UM, WITH THE, UH, UH, COUNCIL, UH, AND THE SCHOOL BOARD JOINT MEETING. UM, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UH, TOM SWANGER BROUGHT UP WAS THAT, UH, JUST ACROSS ALL OF THE DIFFERENT SCHOOLS, UM, WE WE'RE GREAT AT BEING ABLE TO BRING IN YOUNG TEACHERS AND BE ABLE TO BRING IN TEACHERS THAT ARE TOWARDS THE END OF THEIR CAREER THAT ARE IN A POSITION WHERE, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE A HOUSEHOLD, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE HOUSEHOLD WEALTH. WHAT THE PROBLEMS WE RUN INTO HERE IS ONE, RETAINING, UM, TEACHERS. AND, UM, AND TWO, THAT GAP IN BETWEEN THAT, UM, WHERE THEY'VE HAD 5, 6, 12 YEARS EXPERIENCE. UM, YOU KNOW, IN EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS IT'S HARD TO KEEP, UM, THOSE TEACHERS. AND SO YOU'RE RIGHT. SO WE'VE ACCOUNTED FOR THOSE IN THE NUMBERS. UM, PART OF THE REASON THAT WE LOOK AT WORKING AGE HOUSEHOLDS WITH CHILDREN IS BECAUSE THAT ALSO WOULD INCLUDE TEACHERS THAT ARE IN HOUSEHOLDS WITH CHILDREN. I HAVE NO IDEA HOW ARIZONA, NOT JUST SEDONA, BUT ARIZONA KEEPS ANY TEACHERS HOW WE EVEN HAVE ONE TEACHER IN ALL OF ARIZONA. SURE. THE PAY IS TRUE. UM, ONE MORE, OR YOU GO I HAVE, I HAVE MY LIST. YOU GO. OKAY. ONE MORE THING. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DEVELOPMENT AND CREATING HOUSING, AND WE, LIKE YOU TALK ABOUT USES HYPERGROWTH, GENERALLY SPEAKING, DOESN'T THE DEVELOPER IN THE CITY KIND OF WORK OUT A DEAL WHERE, HEY, IF YOU'RE GONNA PUT THESE MANY UNITS IN, YOU GOTTA PUT PARKS IN, YOU GOTTA HELP WITH INFRASTRUCTURE AND PUT IN SIDEWALKS AND HAVE LIKE A PHASED, YOU KNOW, DEVELOPMENT SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT, UM, UNBALANCED OR OVERTAXED PROCESS ON THE, ON THE CITY SERVICES. YEAH. THE CITY SERVICES PIECE IS, IT HAS, THERE'S MATH TO THAT. RIGHT, RIGHT. SO, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE IMPACTS ARE, THE IMPACT FEES, ET CETERA. RIGHT. UM, BUT IT DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR, BUT THAT ONLY ACCOUNTS FOR WHAT IT DOES TO US. UM, NOT NECESSARILY. AND, AND IT ONLY IMPACTS OUR ABILITY TO, UM, TO COMPENSATE IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR. SO, BUT IT DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR ANY PLACE ELSE. UM, AND IT DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR THEN OUR NEED TO RESPOND TO SERVICES OR ET CETERA. SO THERE'S OTHER EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES TO IT. UM, SO IT'S, UM, BUT I AGREE WITH YOU. PARTS OF THOSE ARE DISCOUNTED, IF YOU WILL, OR THEY'RE ACCOUNTED FOR, UM, THROUGH, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE, UM, EXACTIONS AND IMPACT FEES, ET CETERA. MM-HMM . YEAH. OKAY. GREAT. THANK YOU. OKAY, KELLY. SORRY. NO PROBLEM. UM, SO WHEN I TAKE LIKE A 10,000 FOOT VIEW ON THIS, THIS FEELS LIKE AN AFFORDABILITY ISSUE MORE THAN A HOUSING SUPPLY ISSUE IN SOME WAYS. RIGHT? WE, WE HAVE AN INCREASE IN HOUSING SUPPLY, BUT NOT IN HYPOTHETICAL PEOPLE TO LIVE IN THEM. WE WANT THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN OUR COMMUNITY, THE PEOPLE WHO WORK IN OUR COMMUNITY TO LIVE IN OUR COMMUNITY. THERE'S A, A HUGE GAP IN AFFORDABILITY. WE KNOW WE CAN'T FIX THE MARKET. THAT'S NOT A THING WE CAN DO, BUT, AND I'M SURE THIS WILL COME IN THE STRATEGY, BUT LIKE WHEN IT COME, I WOULD LOVE THE STRATEGY TO REALLY LOOK AT, UH, WHEN THE SOLUTIONS INCLUDE DENSITY AND THE THING. WE HAVE VERY LARGE LOTS WITH VERY LARGE HOUSES, AND SO THERE'S LIMITS ON HOW WE BUILD OUR MISSING MIDDLE. MM-HMM . AND THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF, I JUST READ, YOU KNOW, UH, PORTLAND DID THE, LIKE BACKYARD HOUSES MM-HMM . UM, AND THEY'VE HAD A REDUCTION IN RENTAL COSTS SINCE THE APPROVAL OF THEIR LIKE, HEY, IF YOU WANNA PUT A TINY HOUSE IN YOUR BACKYARD YEAH. GO FOR IT. YEAH. RIGHT. LIKE, UM, AND SO THAT'S KIND OF THE THINGS I'M THINKING ABOUT IS LIKE LESS OF THE LET'S DROP 1800 UNITS BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW WHAT THOSE BIG HOUSING BLOCKS CAN FEEL LIKE IN CURRENT DEVELOPMENT MM-HMM . RIGHT. THEY'RE NOT LIKE THE OLDER STYLES OF DENSIFICATION. WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT BROWNSTONE ROW HOUSES ANYMORE. RIGHT. SO I'M FINDING MYSELF COMING [01:20:01] BACK TO LESS ABOUT LIKE THE 1800 NUMBER. RIGHT. WHICH IS A SCARY NUMBER IN A TOWN OF 10,000, 10,000 PEOPLE MM-HMM . AND MORE ABOUT, I KNOW DENSITY IS A SCARY WORD HERE, BUT MORE ABOUT LIKE THAT CODE COMPONENT OF SURE. WE ALREADY HAVE LARGE PARCELS. WE ALREADY HAVE WEALTH TO DEVELOP ON PARTIAL, WE HAVE THIS, THIS INTERESTING COMMUNITY WHERE THEY'RE HIGHLY EDUCATED AND THEY HAVE MONEY. YEP. AND SO HOW DO WE LEVERAGE THOSE COMPONENTS OF OUR COMMUNITY TO HELP, TO MAKE IT SO MAYBE THEY DON'T SELL THE, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HAVING DON'T SELL THEIR HOME, THEY MOVE TO THE TWO BEDROOM, UM, MOTHER-IN-LAW YEAH. ON THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY SURE. AND THEN RENT OUT THE FRONT, YOU KNOW, LIKE, OR EVEN INTERGENERATIONAL LIVING. HOW DO WE ALLOW FOR, 'CAUSE CURRENT CODE MAKES INTERGENERATIONAL LIVING REALLY HARD. EITHER YOU GOTTA LIKE REALLY LIVE WITH THEM. YEAH. , YOU GOTTA BE COZY OR, OR SOMEONE'S NOT HAVING AN OVEN. IT'S LIKE CORRECT. IT'S ONE OR THE OTHER. AND SO LIKE, I FEEL LIKE I'M IN A, IN A TOWN THAT'S AGING IN, UH, IN A SOCIETY THAT'S HAVING LESS CHILDREN, BUT, UM, THERE IS MORE COHABITATION FOR LONGER IN YOUNG PEOPLE'S LIVES. I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF ROOM IN NOT GETTING STUCK UP ON THE NUMBER OF UNITS AND MORE GETTING STUCK UP ON THE, LIKE, HOW CAN WE GET MORE PEOPLE DENSITY? YEAH. I KNOW THAT'S NOT THE WORD THAT I NECESSARILY SHOULD USE, BUT, UM, I THINK THIS IS REALLY INTERESTING AND I, I DO, I AM CURIOUS HOW YOUR NUMBERS ADJUST WITH THE UNDER FIVE POPULATION. 'CAUSE IF YOU GO TO LIKE A, A TODDLER MUSIC CLASS AT THE LIBRARY, I SWEAR THERE ARE 50 KIDS THERE. IT IS. THAT'S AWESOME. INCREDIBLE. YEAH. UM, I WISH JUDY WAS HERE. I'M SURE SHE STILL, SHE WOULD KNOW WHAT IT IS. UM-HUH. SO I'D BE CURIOUS OF THAT COMPONENT OF IT, BUT YEAH, I THINK THAT'S WHAT I'M FINDING MYSELF THINKING ABOUT THIS IS, IS I DON'T WANT THE SOLUTION TO BE LARGE APARTMENT DEVELOPER, YOU KNOW, 30 YEAR TIMELINE TILL SCRAPE. RIGHT. RIGHT. LIKE, THAT'S JUST NOT THE TYPE OF HOUSING THAT FEELS LIKE COMMUNITY HERE. SURE. THE TYPE OF HOUSING, TO ME THAT FEELS LIKE COMMUNITY HERE IS THAT INTERGENERATIONAL SLIGHTLY MORE DENSE, WALKABLE, THE THINGS THAT BUILD COMMUNITY, RIGHT? MM-HMM . RIGHT. YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO WALK TO A PLACE YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO LIVE NEAR PEOPLE YOU CARE ABOUT. YOU KNOW, LIKE ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE WHAT HELP PEOPLE STAY. YEAH. AND I THINK WE'LL SEE, YOU KNOW, OUR RECOMMENDATIONS ARE, ARE GONNA SHOW UP IN THE STRATEGIES OF COURSE. BUT, UM, FROM A STAFF PERSPECTIVE, OUR RECOMMENDATIONS ARE TOWARDS THAT MISSING MIDDLE. SO IT STARTS WITH, UM, YOU KNOW, SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED. IT STARTS AT DUPLEXES, TRIPLEXES, QUADPLEXES, UM, YOU KNOW, AND STILL STAYING. I THINK WE CAN ACHIEVE ALL OF THIS AND STILL STAY ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY WITHIN TWO STORIES, UM, IN PLACES. BUT WE CAN STILL HAVE THE DENSITY THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR. UM, YOU CAN DO COTTAGE STYLE HOUSING, YOU CAN DO LOW LEVEL FLATS AND SUCH AND STILL GET, UM, SUB LEVELS OF DENSITY. UM, BUT THERE'S SIZES OF DENSITY THAT WOULD FEEL APPROPRIATE TO OUR COMMUNITY. UM, THEY DON'T NECESSARILY, WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO HAVE LARGE SCALE APARTMENT COMPLEXES HERE, UM, TO ACHIEVE WHAT WE WANT TO ACHIEVE, BUT AT, AT 1800, IT FEELS LIKE WE WOULD. OH, ABSOLUTELY. YEAH. YEAH. BECAUSE THAT'S, THAT'S AN EASY, THOSE ARE THE QUICK SOLUTIONS. YOU GIVE ME FIVE STORIES, I CAN GIVE YOU 300 UNITS. UM, AND, UH, AND IT WOULD JUST, IT WOULD, IT WOULD BE A JARRING CHANGE FOR A COMMUNITY OF THIS SCALE. AND I THINK WE NEED TO CHANGE THE NARRATIVE ON DENSITY. I THINK IT NEEDS TO NOT BE A SCARY WORD. RIGHT. YEAH. I THINK, I THINK THE MOVE IN, IN THE WANT OF LIVING OF INTER GENERATION, HOW MANY PEOPLE'S KIDS OR GRANDKIDS WOULD MOVE INTO A LITTLE, SORRY, HOW MANY PEOPLE'S KIDS OR GRANDKIDS WOULD MOVE INTO A ONE OR TWO BEDROOM? SURE. BACKYARD COTTAGE. YEAH. OR, AND THEN THAT PLAYS INTO AFFORDABILITY, RIGHT? OUR, OUR, IT IS EXPENSIVE TO BUILD HERE. SO LIKE, HOW DO WE NAVIGATE? I MEAN, IF YOU, I, IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO PULL ACTUAL DATA ON COST PER SQUARE FOOT OF BUILDING HERE VERSUS ELSEWHERE IN THE VERDE VALLEY. UM, BUT THAT'S A, A COMPONENT THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED. YEAH. AND WE'RE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT THOSE NUMBERS. COOL. UM, WE'RE DOING COMPARISONS TO, UM, THE COST OF CONSTRUCTION HERE VERSUS, UM, IN THE VERDE VALLEY VERSUS EVEN PLACES OUTSIDE OF THE VERDE VALLEY. UM, SO THAT WE CAN, AND PART OF THAT IS JUST TO PUT IN PERSPECTIVE, UM, WHERE OUR ISSUES ARE, UM, AS IT RELATES TO HOUSING. OF COURSE, THE BIG THING IS LAND COST. MM-HMM . UM, HERE. UM, AND IT'S ALSO A, A STYLE OF DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE WE HAVE UNIQUE LANDSCAPES. WE HAVE HILLSIDES, WE HAVE MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, YOU GO TO, UH, GO OUT TO PRESCOTT, IT'S NICE AND FLAT. UM, SO IT'S EASY TO DO. UM, THERE'S ALSO, THE OTHER SIDE TO THAT IS WHEN I CAN DO LARGE SCALE 50, 60, 70 ACRES, UM, WORTH OF DEVELOPMENT, THEN I CAN SPREAD THOSE COSTS. [01:25:01] UM, BUT HERE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE OUR LARGEST, UM, OUTSIDE OF, OF ONE AREA OR OUTSIDE OF ONE SITE. UM, OUR LARGEST PARCELS ARE 10 ACRES. UM, YOU'VE STILL, YOU'VE GOTTA FIGURE OUT HOW TO SPREAD THOSE SAME COSTS OVER 10 ACRES WORTH OF OF DEVELOPMENT. SO, SO WE'RE TRYING TO, WE'RE GONNA PUT TOGETHER AN IDEA SO PEOPLE CAN SEE WHERE COSTS GO. UM, AND, UH, YEAH, IT'S EXPENSIVE. AND IN, IN, IN TALKING ABOUT THIS HOUSING, WAS THERE EVER A DISCUSSION, UM, REGARDING THE DELLS RE BEING A SPACE FOR HOUSING? I MEAN, THAT, THAT'S A TALK I'M HEARING ON THE STREET. I'M NOT HEARING IT HERE IN CITIES, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNMENT SPACE. SO, UM, TO THE DELLS, UM, BECAUSE, UH, WE'RE DEF I, I PERSONALLY AM DEFINITELY OPEN TO THE CONCEPT OF THE DELLS. THE PROBLEM IS TO GET EVERYTHING WE NEED TO IN PLACE TO BE ABLE TO, UH, PUT THE DELLS TO WORK RIGHT. IS GONNA BE OUTSIDE OF OUR 10 YEAR WINDOW. OKAY. AND SO, UM, BECAUSE JUST THE LEVEL OF INFRASTRUCTURE, THE LEVEL OF PLANNING AND, UH, AND SUCH IS, IS NOT GONNA PUT US IN A PLACE TO BE ABLE TO UTILIZE IT YET. UM, BUT IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE IT READY FOR THE FOLLOWING 10 YEARS AND TO PUT IT TO WORK. UM, BUT I THINK WHAT WE'RE GONNA FIND, UM, WITH THE DELLS IS THAT WE NEED TO BE LOOKING AT NOT JUST HOUSING, WE NEED TO BE LOOKING AT OTHER OPPORTUNITIES TOO. OH, YOU HAVE TO, BECAUSE YOU, YOU'LL HAVE NO, YOU'LL NEED GROCERY, YOU'LL NEED GAS, YOU'LL NEED STUFF. 'CAUSE IT'S NOT A WALK. SO IT BECOMES A FOOD DESERT AND A GAS DESERT AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. SO YEAH. YEAH. IT BECOMES ITS OWN LITTLE KIND OF SMALLER LIKE PLAN DEVELOPMENT WITH A BUNCH OF THINGS INVOLVED. SURE. SO I, I APPRECIATE THAT. IT, IT IS COMING, UM, AS A, AS A DISCUSSION POINT, AS THE ELECTION GETS CLOSER, UM, YOU KNOW, REGARDING WITH WESTERN GATEWAY AND WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE, AND WELL, IF WE HAVE THE DELLS, WE DON'T NEED TO DEVELOP WESTERN GATEWAY. I MEAN, THESE ARE SOME OF THE THOUGHT PROCESSES THAT ARE COMING ACROSS WITH CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR COUNCIL. MM-HMM . AND, UH, AND I UNDERSTAND THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE OBSTACLES THERE. 'CAUSE WE'VE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT BEFORE HERE ON P AND Z, SO WE DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THAT. BUT, UM, I, I WAS JUST CURIOUS. 'CAUSE AGAIN, LIKE I SAID, IT'S, IT'S GAINING A LOT OF MOMENTUM IN THE COMMUNITY AND, UH, AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK REALLY NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT UP AT AS WE DISCUSS THIS BALANCED HOUSING. SURE. ABSOLUTELY. AND WHEN WE HAD OUR STAKEHOLDER INTERVIEWS, WE MADE A POINT TO MAKE SURE WE INTERVIEWED INDIVIDUALS, YOU KNOW, ACROSS THE BOARD, UM, INCLUDING INDIVIDUALS THAT, THAT WERE NOT SUPER EXCITED ABOUT HOUSING, UM, WITHIN THE AREA. AND, UH, AND THE DELLS CAME UP AND, YOU KNOW, AS PART OF IT, IN, IN FAIRNESS, SOMEBODY BRINGS UP AN IDEA, WE WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT. UM, SO IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THE DELL DELLS IS OFF THE TABLE BY ANY MEANS, BUT WE ARE TAKING A REALISTIC APPROACH TO IT, LOOKING AT IT AND SEEING, OKAY, WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO BE ABLE TO, UH, UM, TO BE ABLE TO PUT THE DELLS TO WORK. DID YOU WANNA SAY SOMETHING ELSE BEFORE I NO, NO. I, I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT THE APRIL FOOLS JOKE, UH, IN THE RED ROCK NEWS DATA CENTER. I DID HAVE SOME QUESTIONS, BUT YOU CAN LET THEM GO IF YOU WANT. OR NO, YOU GOTTA GO. QUESTIONS FIRST. YEAH, GO AHEAD. . UM, SO I DID SOME MATH. 31% OF THE SEDONA SCHOOL POPULATION GOES TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS. MM-HMM . CHARTERS AND PRIVATE CHARTERS, PUBLIC CHARTER'S. PUBLIC CHARTER IS A PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOL. MM-HMM . YEAH. BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY AFFILIATED WITH THE, UH, UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT, UH, A PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOL. OKAY. SO DID SOME OF THOSE SCHOOLS COME ONLINE AND TAKE AWAY SINCE 2000? TAKE AWAY STUDENT POPULATION? NOW, AS A MATTER OF FACT, MOST RECENTLY THEY ACTUALLY GAVE BACK, UM, BECAUSE THE, UM, UH, THE SEDONA CHARTER SCHOOL HAD TO, UH, SORRY, AND I JUST GOT THE NAME WRONG, I'M SURE. UM, BUT THEY MADE THE DECISION TO, THEY, THEY PREVIOUSLY SERVED UP TO EIGHTH GRADE MM-HMM . AND HAVE MADE THE DECISION TO MOVE TO JUST SERVING UP TO SIXTH GRADE. OKAY. AND SO, UM, NO, I THINK, UM, IT SOUNDS LIKE, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, AND THIS IS EASY FOR ME TO SAY 'CAUSE I'M NOT AT ALL INVOLVED IN OUR SCHOOL DISTRICTS, BUT, UH, IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S, THERE'S A PRETTY STRONG WORKING RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, SEVERAL OF THE SCHOOLS. OKAY. UM, WHAT HAPPENED TO PAGES TWO THROUGH 10? OH, , UM, TWO THROUGH 10 WERE PART OF THE INTRODUCTION, UM, THAT I WASN'T DONE WITH YET. AND, UM, SO THAT WOULD INCLUDE A LITTLE BIT MORE BACKGROUND ON THE METHODOLOGY. OKAY. UM, ET CETERA. AND ACTUALLY, I'VE GOTTEN RID OF A COUPLE OF THOSE PAGES, SO NOW YOU'RE MISSING TWO INSTEAD OF LIKE, OKAY, SO YOU SAID 50% OF RESIDENTS RECEIVE SALARY. IS THAT, IS THAT IF YOU'RE, UH, RETIRED AND LIVING ON INVESTMENTS, [01:30:01] ARE YOU DRAWING A SALARY? DID YOU INCLUDE PEOPLE LIKE ME? I'M SORRY, SAY IT AGAIN. SOMEWHERE ON PAGE 11, IT SAYS 50% OF RESIDENTS RECEIVE A SALARY. RIGHT. RIGHT. SO, BUT IF YOU'RE RETIRED, YOU NEED MONEY STILL. RIGHT. SO WHY ISN'T IT A HUNDRED PERCENT? SO THE, UM, SO WHAT WE DID WAS WE LOOKED AT ALL OF THE DIFFERENT INCOME SOURCES THAT PEOPLE HAD COMING IN. AND SO THAT'S WHY WE ALSO SEE 49%, UM, USING, SO UTILIZING SOCIAL SECURITY AS A SOURCE OF INCOME. UM, WE HAVE 27% THAT ARE SELF-EMPLOYED AND DOING SIDE JOBS OR WHAT HAVE YOU, BECAUSE WE CAN, AND, UM, I THINK 40%, I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY THE NUMBER, UM, ARE RECEIVING INCOME OFF OF DIVIDENDS, ET CETERA. THAT'S YOUR 4 0 1 KS MM-HMM . UM, THE THING I THINK THAT'S NOTABLE IS, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE SEE THAT NUMBER THAT SHOWS THE NUMBER OF HOUSEHOLDS EARNING LESS THAN $50,000 AS FAR AS TRUE INCOME GOES, UM, YOU KNOW, TO REITERATE THE POINT THAT THESE ARE NOT POOR PEOPLE. ONLY 6% ARE RECEIVING ANY KIND OF, UM, FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE LIKE FOOD STAMPS, ET CETERA. SO IT'S OTHER REVENUE STREAMS. OKAY. I I JUST DID SOME MATH TOO. ON BUILDING, IF YOU BOUGHT A $300,000 LOT, YOU'VE GOT $166 PER SQUARE FOOT. IF YOU BUILT AN 1800 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE. YEAH. WITHOUT THE HOUSE. HMM. WITHOUT THE HOUSE. IF YOU BUILT AN 1800 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE, YOU START OFF AT $166 A SQUARE FOOT ALREADY FOR YOUR LOT. I TALKED TO ONE PERSON THAT THOUGHT HOUSING IN SEDONA WAS A THOUSAND DOLLARS A SQUARE FOOT. IT JUST DEPENDS ON, ON UTILITIES. BUT, UM, MY, SO THE, UH, ON PAGE 39, THE OCCUPATIONS OF THE 200 OF THE UNITS BEING BUILT. NOW, THE 221, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY WHO, WHO'S GONNA BE ABLE TO LIVE IN THOSE? DO, DO SOME OF THESE PEOPLE AND THESE OCCUPATIONS HIT THOSE? AND I DON'T KNOW IF THE UNITS COMING ONLINE ARE CONDO OR RENT OR, SO DOES THE 221 UNITS DOING ANYTHING FOR PEOPLE ON PAGE 39? SO, UM, I'LL SHOW YOU ON THE NEXT TO LAST PAGE, UM, UNITS BY INCOME LIMIT. AND THIS GIVES YOU AN IDEA OF THE UNITS THAT ARE CURRENTLY PROPOSED OR CURRENTLY, WHAT PAGE IS THAT IN DEVELOPMENT? THIS IS THE NEXT TO LAST PAGE ON MINE. IT SHOWS PAGE 42. PAGE 81 ON THE PACKET. PAGE 81 ON THE PACKET. YEP. SORRY ABOUT THAT. UM, SO THAT SHOWS, OF THE SIX PROJECTS WE HAVE WORKING, UM, 54% OF THOSE UNITS ARE MARKET RATE. UM, WE HAVE 14% ARE DEDICATED TO 60% A MI OR LESS. THAT'S YOUR BILL IS ON SHELBY. UM, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT 21% THAT'S GOING TOWARDS 120% OF A MI OR LESS, YOU KNOW, IN THAT, THAT CATEGORY. 12% WITHIN 150 A MI OR LESS. SO. SO CAN THOSE PEOPLE ON PAGE 39 AFFORD MARKET RATE? THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO AFFORD MARKET RATE AND THAT MEETS THIS CLASSIFICATION, UM, WOULD BE THE INDIVIDUALS THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED LIKE YOUR NURSE PRACTITIONER, YOUR DOCTOR, ET CETERA. IF I'M A POLICE OFFICER, I CANNOT AFFORD MARKET RATE HERE. SO HALF, BASICALLY, THIS SAYS HALF OF THE UNITS BEING BUILT, ONLY NURSES AND DOCTORS CAN AFFORD TO LIVE THERE. YEAH. SO OF THE HOUSES THAT WE HAVE CURRENTLY HAVE, YOU KNOW, COMING ONLINE, UM, YOU KNOW, OF THOSE, THERE'S A SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF THE GROUP THAT WE'RE TRYING TO REACH THAT WE'RE STILL, THEY'RE NOT REACHING. YEP. ALL RIGHT. MY, UH, UM, IT'S WHAT I, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND AT ALL WHAT A SENIOR, WHAT WAS THE WORD? SENIOR? OH, THE COST BURDEN. SEDONA SENIORS. YEAH. MM-HMM . WHAT, WHAT INCOME RESTRICTED SE SEDONA SENIOR HOUSEHOLDS. WHAT'S THAT? YEAH, THOSE ARE GONNA BE, UM, SEDONA SENIORS THAT ARE, UM, BY THE CENSUS DEFINITION, UM, ARE LIVING IN WHAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED COST BURDEN. HOUSEHOLDS. THEY'RE SPENDING MORE MONEY THAN, UM, THAN WHAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED REASONABLE, UM, FOR HOUSING. HOW'D THEY GET THERE? UM, IN MANY CASES, WHAT WE'RE SEEING, 'CAUSE I DON'T THINK THEY GOT THERE TO BEGIN WITH. I THINK WHAT HAPPENED OVER TIME IS THAT WE START TO SEE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE SPOUSE'S PAST. [01:35:01] AND SO NOW THE INCOME STREAM HAS BEEN, HAS BEEN DEPLETED, UM, OR OTHER RESOURCES JUST OVER TIME HAVE BEEN DEPLETED. UM, SO THERE COULD BE A VARIETY OF REASONS. I DON'T KNOW THAT I NECESSARILY KNOW EXACTLY WHY. UM, AS MUCH AS TO SAY THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, FOR WHATEVER REASONS WE DO HAVE, UM, A PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF OUR SENIOR POPULATION. IT'S CERTAINLY SUBSTANTIAL, MEANING THAT THERE'S A NUMBER OF THEM. UM, BUT ON THE FLIP SIDE, OF COURSE, WE ARE VERY FORTUNATE THAT WE HAVE A LARGE NUMBER OF RETIREES WITH WEALTH. SO IT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU REACH A CERTAIN AGE, YOU'RE COST BURDENED BECAUSE IN COMPARISON IT'S A SMALL NUMBER, UM, IN COMPARISON TO THE REST OF OUR HOUSEHOLDS. BUT THEY'RE THERE. UM, WHAT'S THE CONSULTANT GONNA COST? UM, THE TOTAL FEE FOR THE PROJECT, I THINK WAS $105,000. UM, SO THEY ARE, UM, THEY HAVE BEEN HELPING US WITH THE FIRST PART OF IT, PRIMARILY BEING INVOLVED AND, AND SO THAT THEY KNOW WHAT, WHAT TO DO FOR THE NEXT HALF. BUT, UM, THE SECOND HALF OF THIS IS GONNA COST IN THE BALLPARK OF, YOU KNOW, THAT'LL BE WHERE MOST OF THE 105,000 COMES FROM. WE WORKED WITH THEM, UM, TO MAKE SURE THAT, UM, WELL I'VE BEEN ON THE CONSULTANT SIDE, I KNOW HOW TO, I KNOW HOW TO NEGOTIATE. SO I GUESS OVERALL, I JUST, I'M KIND OF WHERE JOE IS. UM, IT SEEMS FUTILE TO ME TO TRY TO TAKE THE POPULATION THAT'S 48% IS OVER 65 AND TO DROP IT TO 40% AS A GOAL. UM, I JUST DUNNO HOW YOU GET THERE. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU LEGISLATE ANYTHING. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DEAL WITH CODES TO MAKE IT. WE'RE ALL OLD. WE'RE GONNA GET PEOPLE THAT HAVE MOVED HERE WANNA STAY HERE UNTIL THEY GET CARRIED OUT IN A BOX. AND, UH, I, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU ACHIEVE SOME OF THESE THINGS WITHOUT THE CITY, LIKE YOU SAID, JOE BECOMING A LANDLORD. AND I THINK CITIES SHOULDN'T BE LANDLORDS, BUT IT'S A, IT'S A TOUGH NUT TO CRACK. GOOD, GOOD LUCK. I, I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF THIS IS ACHIEVABLE. ANYBODY ELSE COMMENTS? I JUST, I GUESS I HAVE A GENERAL THOUGHT, THOUGHT COMING FROM LIKE A FAMILY BASIS. WE MOVED HERE, KNEW WHAT KIND OF SITUATION SEDONA FOUND OUT. IT'S NOT LIKE A FAMILY COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, BUT I THINK ABOUT WHAT SEDONA COULD BUILD, NOT NECESSARILY HOUSES, BUT DRAW MORE PEOPLE HERE TO STAY HERE. MANY PEOPLE MOVE HERE, BUT THEY ALWAYS MOVE AWAY. 'CAUSE THE SCHOOLS ARE HARDER AS YOU GET OLDER HERE. LIKE, THERE ARE REAL CONCERNS THAT I HAVE AS A PARENT WITH KIDS, YOU KNOW, AGING HERE, WHERE I'M LIKE, I DON'T KNOW. ARE THERE, ARE THERE ENOUGH KIDS HERE? ARE THERE ENOUGH THINGS FOR THEM TO DO HERE? SO TO ME IT FEELS LIKE NOT NECESSARILY BUILDING MORE HOUSES, BUT JUST DRAWING PEOPLE AND GET THEM TO STAY HERE. WHERE I DON'T FEEL THE TOURISM DOES IT IS, IT'S HARD. YOU KNOW? WHERE, I DON'T KNOW, JUST SO LIKE, IN MY MIND I'M LIKE, I, THERE ARE PEOPLE AND YOUNG FAMILIES THAT CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE HERE, BUT WHY WOULD THEY MM-HMM . YEAH. THAT'S, IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. AND IT'S, IT'S A CHICKEN AND EGG KIND OF SITUATION, RIGHT. UM, BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT TO, UH, YOU'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO CREATE THE AVENUE FOR MORE FAMILIES TO BE HERE MM-HMM . AT THE SAME TIME. UM, HOW DO YOU MAKE SURE THERE'S SOMETHING FOR THEM TO DO? RIGHT. AND, UM, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, PART OF IT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT THINGS AND PART OF THIS WILL BLEED INTO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE A BIT TOO. BUT, UM, YEAH. I'M GONNA BE VERY CANDID. YOU KNOW, WE DO A REALLY GOOD JOB OF REGULATING FUN HERE MM-HMM . AND WE NEED TO STOP THAT. UM, WE MAKE IT REALLY DIFFICULT TO HAVE A GOOD TIME. YEAH. UM, AND, AND IF I'M A TEENAGER, THAT'S ALL I REALLY CARE ABOUT. SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S, SO PART OF IT IS UNDERSTANDING WHAT WE DO TO OURSELVES AS A COMMUNITY. MM-HMM . WHAT KIND OF THINGS WE CAN EASILY FREE UP MM-HMM . TO ALLOW FOR SOME, YOU KNOW, JUST AGAIN, BEING VERY CANDID, THE FACT THAT WE HAD TO HAVE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE ENTERTAINMENT TO ME IS, IS A BONEHEADED THING. MM-HMM . SO, YEAH. SEE YOU COULD GET A GOOD BAND OUT HERE FOR THAT. YEAH. SO I THINK THAT TO YOUR POINT THOUGH, IT'S, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT ALL SIDES OF THIS. YEAH. I, WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T EXPECT THAT, HEY, WE'VE GOT A BUNCH OF HOUSES NOW SHOW UP. BUT WE DO KNOW, AND, AND I THINK YOUR TESTAMENT TO IT, THAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO TAKE THE CHANCE MM-HMM . IT'S JUST HOW LONG CAN WE KEEP THEM HERE, RIGHT? MM-HMM . AND SO THIS IS, IT'S NOT A [01:40:01] LET'S JUST DO HOUSING AND THEN WALK AWAY. IT'LL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF, BUT WE HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE. YEAH. AND, UM, AND FOR US, IT'S CREATING THE SUPPLY MM-HMM . FOR THE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO BE HERE MM-HMM . AND THEN LET'S TRY TO FIX SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS ALONG THE WAY. YEAH. YEAH. AND UM, AMONGST THAT TOO IS JUST THAT IDEA OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. MM-HMM . HAVING AN OPPORTUNITY. TWO GUY, TWO PEOPLE GET TOGETHER, THEY COME WITH A HAREBRAINED IDEA AND GO TO THE CITY AND BE LIKE, HEY, WHAT ABOUT THIS? MM-HMM . AND CAN WE TRY IT? OH, IT'S AGAINST CODE. OH, WE DON'T DO THAT HERE. I MEAN, THERE'S NO LIKE WAY FOR ENTREPRENEURS TO THINK OUTSIDE OF RETAIL HERE OR GIVE A JEEP TOUR OR WHATEVER, A VORTEX, WHATEVER TOUR THEY WANNA GIVE. UM, I THINK IT'S GREAT THAT THE ARTS, UM, HAVE REALLY DONE SOME THINGS, BUT LIKE WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, A 12-YEAR-OLD DOES NOT WANNA GO TO THE ART MUSEUM. RIGHT. THEY JUST DON'T. YEAH. YOU KNOW? UM, AND SO, I MEAN, SOME DO LIKE THE KIDS THAT ARE ARTISTIC, BUT OVERALL THEY DON'T. BUT THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THE CITY HAS TO DO TO ATTRACT, AND IT'S NOT JUST HOUSING AND IT'S NOT JUST PARKS AND RECS, BUT IT'S ALSO THE ENTREPRENEUR PART PER SMALL BUSINESS THAT'S NOT RELATED TO TOURISM. I'M A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TOURISM. UM, AND, AND, AND MY EMPLOYEE, I HAVE EMPLOYEES IN THE VERDE VALLEY MM-HMM . AND SO I THINK THAT IT'S, UM, THAT'S THE OTHER COMPONENT THAT'S ALSO MIN, THAT'S LIKE THIS, A GROUP OVER HERE AND THE CHAMBER DOES WHAT IT CAN, BUT AGAIN, IT'S FOCUSED ON A MAJORITY ON TOURISM. SURE. AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THE CITY HAS TO DO ALSO, NOT JUST THE HOUSING THING. AND, AND WE DO THE BEST THAT WE CAN WITH THE RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE, BUT IT'S ALSO WANTING TO BE AGGRESSIVE, THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX, BE CREATIVE. AND, UM, I, IN SOME CASES WE DO, BUT OF LATE, WE SEEM TO BE ON THE DULL SIDE, BUT YEAH. SORRY. I'LL LET YOU GO. YEAH, NO, WELL, I MEAN, I CAN EXP YOU KNOW, SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE. I HAVE A TEENAGER THAT COMPLAINS ALL THE TIME ABOUT NOT HAVING ANYTHING TO DO AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S A REAL ISSUE. AND SPEAKING TO YOUR TEACHER COMMENT, UM, YOU KNOW, MY KIDDO'S IN THE 11TH GRADE NOW, BUT WHEN HE WAS IN MIDDLE SCHOOL AT CHARTER, THEY WENT THROUGH SIX TEACHERS IN ONE YEAR. MM-HMM . AND ONE OR TWO OF THEM WERE LIVING IN THEIR CAR. YEAH. SO WE DO HAVE SERIOUS SITUATION, BUT I AM GOING, IF THERE'S NO FURTHER COMMENTS, I'M GONNA OPEN THIS TO THE PUBLIC 'CAUSE I HAVE ONE CARD. SO IF THAT'S OKAY, TIM, THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE. GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS TIM PERRY AND I LIVE IN SEDONA. THERE'S A NUMBER OF ISSUES WITH THE DATA IN THIS DRAFT STUDY THAT SHOULD PROBABLY BE LOOKED AT. THE EMPLOYMENT NUMBERS FOR ONE THING, SEND UP A WHOLE BUNCH OF RED FLAGS. IT'S VERY REFRESHING TO SEE THE HOUSING NEED NUMBER COMING DOWN FROM THE UNBELIEVABLE 1800 LAST SUMMER TO A MORE RATIONAL 500 NOW. BUT THE PROBLEM WITH THAT NUMBER IS THAT IT WAS DERIVED NOT BASED ON THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO CURRENTLY RENT IN SEDONA AND NEED A MORE PERMANENT SOLUTION, OR THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WORK IN SEDONA, WHO ARE LOOKING TO LIVE IN SEDONA, BUT RATHER BY THE PRIORITY THAT THE CITY GOVERNMENT WANTS TO TRY TO MOVE A LOT MORE PEOPLE HERE TO PUT MORE KIDS INTO THE STATE INDOCTRINATION SYSTEM. WELL, NUMBER ONE, THAT'S A FAULTY PREMISE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T REALLY CAPTURE THE FULL SCOPE OF SEDONAS NEED. NUMBER TWO, AS WE'VE HEARD A LITTLE BIT FROM THE COMMISSION TONIGHT, THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY THE GOVERNMENT'S JOB. AND NUMBER THREE, THE PROPOSAL HAS SERIOUS MORAL ISSUES. ANOTHER ISSUE WITH THE DATA THAT COMES UP IN THIS STUDY IS THAT IT REPEATS THE NOTION THAT THERE'S BEEN SOME SORT OF MASSIVE INCREASE IN SHORT-TERM RENTALS OVER THE PAST, IN THIS CASE FIVE YEARS. WELL, THE CITY'S OWN DATA IS THAT THE NUMBER OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS WAS ALREADY CLOSING IN ON 1200 BY THE END OF 2018 AND HAS CHANGED VERY LITTLE SINCE THEN. IT DOESN'T WORK WELL TO TRY TO REWRITE YOUR OLD NARRATIVE TO CONFORM TO YOUR NEW NARRATIVE OR VICE VERSA. THE PLUS IN THE MENTION OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS HERE IS THAT FOR THE FIRST TIME, THE SECOND HOMEOWNER PROBLEM, WHICH IS INSEPARABLE FROM SHORT-TERM RENTALS, IS ACKNOWLEDGED AS PART OF THE HOUSING ISSUE. YOU THE MOST INTERESTING DATA POINT IN THIS STUDY IS WHERE IT MENTIONS THAT 34% OF HOUSING IN TOWN WAS CONSTRUCTED BEFORE 1980. IF I'M RECALLING CORRECTLY, COCONINO COUNTY GOT ITS FIRST BUILDING CODE IN 1981, YAVAPAI FOLLOWED IN 83 OR 84. THAT MEANS THAT WELL OVER A THIRD OF THE HOUSE IN SEDONA, PROBABLY 40% IF NOT MORE. AND THOSE HOUSES THAT ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY OCCUPIED BY THE WORKING PEOPLE OF SEDONA WERE BUILT WITHOUT ANY BUILDING CODES. AND THEY'RE STILL STANDING THERE JUST FINE. [01:45:01] BUILDING CODES DO NOT KEEP PEOPLE FROM HAVING FIRES IN THEIR HOMES. BUILDING CODES DO NOT KEEP PEOPLE FROM HAVING THEIR HOMES COLLAPSE ON TOP OF THEM. BUILDING CODES ARE A HANDOUT TO CONTRACTORS AND TO BUREAUCRATS. I LIVE IN A BUILDING BUILT IN 1972 WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF ANY CODES AND IT'S BETTER BUILT AND IT'S MUCH MORE AESTHETICALLY PLEASING THAN THE PLASTIC PIECE OF CRAP THAT WAS PUT UP UNDER SEDONAS. EXTREMELY COMPLICATED CODES NEXT TO IT 50 YEARS LATER. JUST SOMETHING FOR THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER MOVING INTO THE NEXT PART OF TONIGHT'S DISCUSSION. THANK YOU, TIM. OKAY. SO IF THERE'S NOTHING ELSE WE CAN, I MEAN THERE'S NO ACTION ITEM, RIGHT? SO WE'LL JUST CLOSE THIS. OKAY. WE'LL CLOSE THAT ITEM. DO PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THEY NEED A BIO BRICK OR SHOULD WE PUSH THROUGH THESE LAST TWO THINGS? OKAY. WHAT IS THERE FOOD? I NEED AN HOUR FOR ARTICLE FIVE. NO, . IS THERE FOOD? IS THERE THERE IS FOOD? NO. YOU WANNA TAKE A QUICK BREAK? OKAY. SO WE'LL TAKE A 15 MINUTE BREAK. YEAH. IF THERE'S FOOD AND WE'LL COME BACK FOR THE LAST TWO ITEMS. I HAVE A HEADACHE. SO GOOD. ALRIGHT, [7. Discussion/possible direction regarding potential changes to the Land Development Code.] MOVING ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, DISCUSSION POSSIBLE DIRECTION REGARDING POTENTIAL CHANGES TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. AWESOME. I WILL BE MUCH FASTER ON THIS ONE THAN THE LAST ONE. UM, SO JUST TO GIVE YOU A QUICK UPDATE OF WHERE WE ARE, UM, AS YOU KNOW, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT MOVING FORWARD WITH, UM, THE CODE UPDATE. AND, UM, JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT WE'RE THINKING OF. SO WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE UPDATE, WE'RE LOOKING AT ALL OF THE DIFFERENT RESOURCES WE NEED TO BE BUILDING OFF OF, UM, THE BALANCED HOUSING STRATEGY. WE JUST DISCUSSED SUSTAINABILITY CODE IMPROVEMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN PROPOSED. UM, THE COMMUNITY PLAN, UM, BEING ABLE TO REFERENCE THE COMMUNITY PLAN AND MAKE, UM, CORRECTIONS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT. UM, BUT ALSO IN ADDITION TO THAT PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT, UM, COMMENTS THAT WE RECEIVED FROM, UH, FROM THIS BODY, FROM COUNCIL, UH, THINGS WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON AS STAFF. UM, AND THEN THE PIECE THAT I'D LIKE TO FOCUS ON TODAY, AND THAT'S THE CODE CRITIQUE. UM, AS WE TALKED ABOUT, UM, BEFORE, UM, THE IDEA BEHIND THE CODE CRITIQUE IS TO BE ABLE TO GO AHEAD AND START, UM, RECEIVING COMMENTS IN ADVANCE, UM, OF HIRING A CONSULTANT SO THAT WE CAN HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT OUR NEEDS ARE. AND, AND, AND IT HELPS INFORM THE CONSULTANT TEAM. UM, THERE'S A LOT OF LANGUAGE HERE. I AM NOT GONNA READ THROUGH THE WHOLE THING. BUT, UM, TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHY WE DO THIS, UM, THE CODE CRITIQUE IS INTENDED TO BE AN OPEN FORUM. UM, THE IDEA BEHIND THE CRITIQUE IS TO GIVE US, UM, A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE REAL WORLD BARRIERS ARE, UM, TO THE TYPES OF THINGS THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO DO AS A COMMUNITY. UM, WE'D LIKE TO SEE AS A COMMUNITY AND, AND HOW ARE WE GETTING IN THE WAY OF OURSELVES, UM, WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. AT THE SAME TIME, IT ALSO GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO RECOGNIZE WHAT WE'RE DOING WELL, UM, WITHIN A COMMUNITY AND OR WITHIN THE CODE AND WHAT'S WORKING. UM, IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THE, THE CODE IS BROKE. UM, I'VE NEVER SEEN A CODE THAT WAS PERFECT. UM, SO, UM, BUT IT DOES SAY THAT THERE ARE, UM, PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR EVOLUTION HERE. SO THIS GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK BOTH AT THE REGULATION, BUT IT ALSO GIVES US A LOOK AT AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT HOW WE ADMINISTER THE CODE, UM, THE PROCESSES. PEOPLE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE THINGS THAT ARE REQUIRE PERMITS, UM, AS WELL AS SOME OF THE OTHER TYPES OF THINGS THAT MAY COME UP FROM FOLKS THAT TURN OUT TO BE, UM, NOT NECESSARILY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE QUESTIONS. PEOPLE MAY BRING UP COMMENTS RELATED TO THE BUILDING CODE, UM, OR OTHER, UM, DIFFERENT ASPECTS. AND SO IT JUST GIVES EVERYBODY WITHIN THE COMMUNITY AN OPPORTUNITY THAT HAS BEEN THINKING ABOUT IT, WHETHER YOU'RE CONTRACTORS, DEVELOPERS, BUILDERS, ET CETERA. UM, INDIVIDUALS THAT SIT ON, UM, PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION THAT, UH, UM, THAT HAVE TO PUT UP WITH US, UM, AS WELL AS STAFF THAT HAVE TO ADMINISTER THE CODE. SO IT GIVES EVERYBODY AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE A PART OF, UM, OF WHAT WE NEED TO BE DOING. SO THAT'S THE POINT FOR THE CODE CRITIQUE. SO THE CODE CRITIQUE TIMELINE, UM, WE HAD INITIALLY SCHEDULED FOR MID-APRIL, UM, TO MID-JUNE, UM, TO OPEN UP THE CODE CRITIQUE. WE ARE GOING TO BE SLIDING THAT BACK BY A COUPLE OF WEEKS. UM, REASON BEING IS THAT WE ARE TRYING TO LOOK AT A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT, UM, METHODS TO, UM, TO HAVE ONLINE COMMUNITY INTERACTION THAT WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT BETTER THAN WHAT WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST. UM, SO, UM, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THOSE THAT'S TAKING A LITTLE BIT LONGER 'CAUSE I THOUGHT WE ALREADY OWN THE SOFTWARE. TURNS OUT WE DON'T. UM, SO WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT. I THINK IT'S GONNA BE WELL WORTH IT. SO IT'LL, IT'LL PUSH [01:50:01] US BACK BY A COUPLE OF WEEKS. UM, PROBABLY, UM, IN TERMS OF OUR PROCESS, SO EVERY DATE THAT I HAVE UP HERE THEN IS OFFICIALLY WRONG. BUT IF YOU'LL TAKE ALL OF THEM AND SLIDE THEM BACK, THEN IT GIVES YOU AN IDEA. UM, BUT THE IDEA IS FIRST TO START OFF WITH THE CODE CRITIQUE, UM, WHERE WE OPEN IT UP. UM, WE, UH, ALSO WANT THEN TO BE ABLE TO TAKE A MONTH, UM, OR A MONTH AND A HALF THEREABOUTS TO TAKE ALL OF THAT INFORMATION, PREPARE IT INTO A REPORT THAT WE CAN GIVE TO THIS BODY, BUT ALSO BE ABLE TO HAND OVER TO A CONSULTANT THAT CAN PUT IT TO WORK. UM, DURING THAT SAME TIME, WE WOULD BE LOOKING TO ISSUE THE REQUEST FOR PROPOSALS, UM, TO GO AHEAD AND BRING A CONSULTANT TEAM IN. UH, WE WANT THOSE TWO TO OVERLAP A BIT. SO WHILE WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF SELECTING A CONSULTANT, WE CAN BE BRINGING THE PROCESS OF THE CODE CRITIQUE TO CLOSURE SO THAT WAY WE'RE NOT HAVING A LAG IN BETWEEN THAT PROCESS. UM, BECAUSE WE'D LIKE THE CONSULTANT TEAM TO REALLY HIT THE GROUND RUNNING. SO, UH, WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT WE WOULD HAVE A CONSULTANT TEAM SELECTED IN THE BALLPARK OF NOW SEPTEMBER TO MAYBE OCTOBER. UM, AND THEN WE CAN GO AHEAD AND BEGIN IN EARNEST, UM, GENERALLY SPEAKING, CODE CRITIQUE WILL, OR NOT A CODE CRITIQUE, BUT UM, THE CONSULTANT TEAM WILL PROBABLY ASK FOR ABOUT A YEAR, UM, TO, UH, TO DO THE FULL UPDATE. UM, THAT'S A REASONABLE ASK. IT WOULD TAKE MUCH LONGER IF WE WERE TRYING TO CHANGE THE MAPS. WE ARE NOT, UM, WE'RE LOOKING SPECIFICALLY TO CHANGE THE CODES. UM, SO, UH, ONCE WE GET THROUGH THAT PROCESS, THEN OF COURSE WE HAVE A, OUR REVIEW PROCESSES TO GO THROUGH. BUT, UH, THAT IS LITERALLY THE END OF THE PRESENTATION. TOLD YOU IT'D BE MUCH FASTER. WONDERFUL. OKAY. YEAH. SO PRIMARILY WANTED TO TO SAY, WE HAD BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE CODE CRITIQUE. UM, ONE OF THE THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST IS, I KNOW THAT THIS BODY BROUGHT IT UP, UM, IS OPEN, IS HOSTING A FORUM, UH, FOR INDIVIDUALS SO THAT IT'S NOT JUST ONLINE. WE GIVE, WE HAVE AN OPEN FORUM HERE THAT, UH, THAT I WOULD SUGGEST THIS PLANNING AND ZONING, UM, BODY, UM, HOST WHERE PEOPLE CAN COME IN AND GIVE THOUGHTS AS WELL. I THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. MM-HMM . UM, AND IT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR, HELPFUL FOR US TO UNDERSTAND HOW WE CAN MOST BE HELPFUL IN THIS PROCESS. MM-HMM . BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SEVERAL OF US THAT FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT CODE CHANGES YEAH. IN ORDER TO, UM, CREATE BETTER OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY. UM, SO LETTING US KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU SAID, ENGAGEMENT, ONLINE ENGAGEMENT IN JUST A MEETING ROOM THAT'S WE'VE GOTTA GET OUT ON THE STREET. WE HAVE TO GET PEOPLE ENGAGED. I'D LOVE TO SEE A DESIGN CHARETTE WHERE PEOPLE THROW IDEAS UP AND I'D LIKE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PEOPLE THINK IS WORKING AND IS NOT WORKING. YEAH. SO, UM, I REALLY WANT THIS TO BE VERY INTERACTIVE. YEAH. AND I DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER TO THAT IS, BUT I'M HOPING MAYBE SOMEBODY UP HERE, YOU KNOW, LET'S WORK TOGETHER TO REALLY MAKE THIS HAPPEN. 'CAUSE THIS IS OUR CHANCE. WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR YEARS, SO I I'M HOPING EVERYBODY WILL BE REALLY ENGAGED AND WE'LL JUMP IN AND DO THIS. SO, YEAH, I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD JUST TAKE A MOMENT, AND IT'S JUST MORE FOR THE PUBLIC THAN US, IS TO TALK ABOUT WHY THE, UM, DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT HIRES CONSULTANTS. WHY CAN'T WE JUST DO IT AT HOUSE? YEAH. SO EXPLAIN, EXPLAIN WHAT THAT IS. 'CAUSE WE KNOW UP HERE. YEAH. BUT I THINK SOMETIMES THE COMMUNITY JUST IS LIKE, OH, WE'RE JUST SPENDING MORE MONEY MM-HMM . FOR A CONSULTANT NOT REALIZING WHY WE'RE DOING THAT. YEAH. NO, IT'S A GREAT POINT. AND THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT HIRING A CONSULTANT TO REDO A CODE IS VERY EXPENSIVE. UM, SO WE'VE SET ASIDE $300,000 TO DO IT. IT WILL CONSUME EVERY PENNY. MM-HMM . UM, AND SO HAVING BEEN ON THE OTHER SIDE AND, UH, BEEN A PART OF, UH, OF WRITING CODES, I'VE WRITTEN A LOT OF THEM. UM, AND SO THAT'S NOT AN UNREASONABLE NUMBER TO ASK. UM, HIRING A CONSULTANT ALLOWS YOU TO DO TWO THINGS. UM, ONE, YES, YOUR STAFF COULD DO IT. YOU KNOW, WE'VE, LIKE I SAID, I'VE PROBABLY WRITTEN MORE THAN 30, UH, DIFFERENT CODES. SO, UM, AND I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THEM FOR A LONG TIME. ARE WE CAPABLE OF WRITING THE CODES? WE ARE, UM, DO WE HAVE THE BANDWIDTH TO DO THAT AND EVERYTHING ELSE? MM-HMM . WE DO NOT. UM, AND SO, UM, SO THE OTHER SIDE TO THAT THOUGH IS WHEN YOU HIRE A CONSULTANT TO DO YOUR CODES, YOU ARE BRINGING IN BEST PRACTICES FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY. YOU WANT TO HIRE A FIRM THAT HAS DONE THIS FOR A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT PLACES, PREFERABLY PLACES LIKE YOU, UM, THAT WE'LL HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WORKS IN OTHER, IN OTHER COMMUNITIES. UM, WE HAVE A TENDENCY WHEN WE WRITE OUR CODES OURSELF TO, UM, TO BE VERY INSULAR IN THE WAY WE LOOK AT OUR CODE WRITING. AND SO WE BUILD OFF OF OUR OWN EXPERIENCES. UM, THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY A BAD THING, BUT IT DOESN'T GIVE YOU THAT FULL WORLD PERSPECTIVE OF HOW OTHER COMMUNITIES ARE DOING THINGS [01:55:01] BETTER. UM, PARTICULARLY AS IT RELATES TO BEING ABLE TO, BEING MORE FLEXIBLE, BEING ABLE TO, LET'S GET BACK TO THE IDEA OF ENTERTAINMENT, FOR EXAMPLE. UM, THERE'S REASONS OTHER, OTHER PLACES, YOU KNOW, HAVE MORE ACTIVE AND ENGAGING ENTERTAINMENT ACTIVITIES ON THE STREETS OR REGULARLY WITHIN PARKING LOTS, ET CETERA. THERE'S A, THERE'S GOING TO BE A DIFFERENT FRAMEWORK OUT THERE. THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS IT? AND THEN HOW DOES IT FIT WITHIN OUR SCHEME? SO THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF THINGS THAT, UH, THAT WE WOULD LOOK FOR A CONSULTANT FOR. ON THE OTHER HAND, I WILL SAY THIS IS PART OF THE REASON THAT THE CODE CRITIQUE IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE A NUMBER OF COMMUNITIES HIRE THE CONSULTANT AND THEN ASK THE CONSULTANT TO DO THE ASSESSMENT. UM, SO THEN YOU GET THEIR VERSION OF WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOUR CODE, NOT THE COMMUNITIES. THEY WAIT AND ASK THE COMMUNITY MIDSTREAM. UM, BY PUTTING THE CODE CRITIQUE UP FRONT, THE COMMUNITY IS DRIVING THE BUS AND IT HELPS CLARIFY AND DO A FOUND AND GIVE A BETTER FOUNDATION. I CAN TELL YOU FROM THE OTHER SIDE, CONSULTANTS WILL LOVE THAT BECAUSE WHAT THEY NEED IS GUIDANCE BEFOREHAND, NOT AFTER THE FACT. UM, SO IT'S ALSO BENEFICIAL THEN TO ALSO GIVE A STRONG FRAMEWORK FOR WHAT WE EXPECT OUT OF A CONSULTANT, UM, BECAUSE IT'S EASY FOR THAT CONSULTANT TO GET SIDEWAYS, UM, AND GO OFF TRACK IF, UH, IF WE'RE NOT WATCHFUL OF IT. SO IT'S, IT'S PROS AND CONS. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THERE THERE'S REASONS TO HIRE THEM. THERE'S ALSO REASONS TO PLACE GOOD GUARDRAILS ON THEM. WELL, DON'T BE SURPRISED IF I ASKED THIS QUESTION AGAIN. SURE. 'CAUSE I JUST THINK IT'S IMPORTANT WHEN WE TALK TO FOLKS IN THE COMMUNITY, THEY'RE LIKE, OH, THEY'RE HIRING ANOTHER CONSULTANT. AND AND I SAY IT'S VERY SIMILAR. YEAH, WE CAN DO IT, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE BANDWIDTH. WE HAVE OTHER PROJECTS. WE HAVE THINGS THAT ARE HAVE PRIORITY FOR OUR STAFF MEMBERS. AND THEN IF THEY DIDN'T DO THAT WORK, IT WOULD STILL AFFECT CITY SERVICES. YEP. AND SO, UM, BUT I THINK COMMUNITY NEEDS TO HEAR THIS MORE AND MORE. WHY ARE WE HIRING ANOTHER CONSULTANT? 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT BECOMES. OH, ANOTHER CONSULTANT. WELL, YEAH, BECAUSE DO I WANNA BRING ON A $250,000 STAFF MEMBER? NO, I CAN'T, I CAN'T AFFORD IT. OR I NEED TO BRING ON SIX PEOPLE AT 80,000 A YEAR PLUS BENEFITS THAT'S NOW 500 GRAND OR HOWEVER, AND IT'S MORE. AND SO I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT'S REALLY A, A KEY, YOU KNOW, AS WE TALK ABOUT EXPENDITURES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, SO FOLKS UNDERSTAND. YEAH. BECAUSE I, I THINK THAT FOLKS DON'T UNDERSTAND. NO, IT'S AN EXCELLENT POINT. AND, AND WE DO ASSESS, JUST LIKE WITH THE BALANCED HOUSING PIECE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE CUT THAT IN HALF AND DID THE FIRST HALF IN-HOUSE FOR THE EXACT SAME REASONS. UM, BECAUSE CONSULTANT FATIGUE AND, AND WE KNEW WE COULD DO IT. SO I ASK MYSELF AND, AND OF STAFF, WHENEVER WE LOOK AT THINGS LIKE THIS, CAN WE DO IT FIRST HERE? UM, DO WE HAVE THE EXPERTISE? AND MOST OFTEN WE HAVE THE EXPERTISE, SO WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE TIME. RIGHT. OKAY. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS UP HERE? I THINK MY COMMENT ABOUT HAVING FORUMS MIGHT BE THAT BASICALLY ANYTIME WE HAVE A MEETING, MAYBE AN AGENDA ITEM TO ALLOW FOR, MAYBE IT'S OUR FIRST AGENDA ITEM SO PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO WAIT FOR, YOU KNOW, ALL THE PROJECTS TO GO THROUGH. BUT THE FIRST AGENDA ITEM, WHETHER WE USE IT OR NOT, IS, YOU KNOW, CODE COMMENTS, WHETHER THAT COMES FROM US OR THE PUBLIC. MM-HMM . AND IT COULD BE A VERY SHORT THING. IT COULD, I DON'T WANT TO ADD HOURS BECAUSE I THINK IT COULD. BUT, UM, IF IT'S KIND OF JUST STANDING THERE, THEN THAT WOULD GIVE PEOPLE MULTIPLE CHANCES TO COME TO PUBLIC AND IT WOULD ALWAYS BE, YOU KNOW MM-HMM . IF WE DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IS THERE A WAY, KURT, 'CAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW ALL THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT SOMETIMES WITH THE CITY IS, IS THERE A WAY FOR US TO GET OFF THE DAAS? BECAUSE I THINK THAT THE DAAS, IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE AN OPEN FORUM, THE DAAS AND SUBCONSCIOUSLY FORCES PEOPLE TO ACT A CERTAIN WAY OR NOT SAY WHAT THEY NEED TO SAY, AND WE MAY NOT HEAR THEIR MESSAGE. IS IT OKAY IF WE JUST INTERACT DURING THAT, DURING A MEETING? YEAH. YES. THAT CAN BE ARRANGED DURING THE MEETING. OKAY, GREAT. I GOTTA TAKE THIS MOMENT. . UM, I'VE, I'VE READ LDC AND DURING THIS PROCESS, I WOULD LIKE TO BE A CHAMPION IN DEALING WITH THE ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS AND CONTRACTORS AND REALLY A LIAISON, UH, IN A WAY TO GET THEM TO OPEN UP AND REALLY TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE ISSUES. UH, AS I'VE SAID IN THE PAST, I'VE DEALT WITH CODES THAT MADE YOU DO SOME REALLY STUPID THINGS. I THINK I MENTIONED A, A CREDIT UNION I DID THAT HAD A WINDOW INTO A CASH COUNTING ROOM BECAUSE WE HAD TO HAVE SO MUCH GLASS ON THE STREET SIDE. UM, THEY HAD A WINDOW WITH DRYWALL BEHIND THE WINDOW, . UM, I, I, I REALLY THINK THAT THE, [02:00:01] UH, ARTICLE FIVE IS WHAT I'M GONNA LOOK AT AND BE A CHAMPION WITH THOSE PEOPLE. UM, FOR EXAMPLE, RIGHT NOW, IF YOU'RE A COMMERCIAL BUILDING AND YOU ADD MORE THAN 25% OF AN ADDITION, YOU HAVE TO BRING UP THE WHOLE BUILDING TO OUR CURRENT LDC. I WOULD ASSUME THAT WOULD MEAN MATERIALITY, THE LOOK AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. UM, IT, IT JUST HAS SOME THINGS THAT I THINK ARE ONEROUS TO IT, BUT THE, THE BIGGEST, OR THERE'S EVEN A SECTION THAT SAYS YOU HAVE TO USE AT LEAST FOUR OF THESE ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES AND HAS A LIST OF, OF FEATURES. BUT I, I THINK CONCEPTUALLY FOR ME, THE THING I WANT TO CHAMPION IS HOW DO YOU, FIRST OF ALL, IT TALKS A LOT ABOUT, UH, BUILDINGS SHALL BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE PREDOMINANT STYLE OF THE COMMUNITY. THAT'S RIGHT. OUT OF OUR LDC. I'VE GONE UP AND DOWN WEST SEDONA AND I'VE TRIED TO DETERMINE WHAT IS, YOU KNOW, IS IT WALGREENS? IS IT WHOLE FOODS? IS IT, UH, YOU NAME IT, YOU KNOW, AKAKA HOCKEY. YEAH. WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IS THE STYLE? I THINK SEDONA SEEMS TO HAVE A RESIDENTIAL STYLE THAT'S AT LEAST PREDOMINANT NOW. I DON'T LIKE IT AS MUCH AS MAYBE SOME OF THE OLD THINGS, BUT, UH, WHAT, WHAT IS THE STYLE AND WHO DETERMINES WHAT THE STYLE IS AND HOW DO WE, HOW DOES ANYBODY WRITE WORDS TO GET A RESULT IN THE BUILT FORM? MM-HMM . I THINK THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S VERY DIFFICULT WITHOUT PRECEDENT IMAGES. AND OUR CODE DOESN'T HAVE PRECEDENT IMAGES, UH, MAYBE IN THE, IN THE CITY OR THE, THE BIG THICK, UH, CITY PLAN OR WHATEVER IT IS. BUT TO ME, THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO TALK TO THESE PEOPLE ABOUT IS HOW, HOW DO THEY APPROACH THE DESIGN PROCESS IN DEALING WITH WORDS? AND WE'RE TRYING TO GET A LOOK. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT LOOK IS. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DESCRIBE THAT LOOK. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO CODIFY THAT LOOK. RIGHT. AND THE BIGGER QUESTION FOR ME IS, DO WE WANT TO DO THAT? DO WE EVEN WANT TO CODIFY THE LOOK OF OUR CITY, UH, CITIES WE GO TO GREW ORGANICALLY AND THEY'RE WONDERFUL AND BEAUTIFUL, AND DO WE WANT IT TO LOOK LIKE A HOLLYWOOD STAGE SET, UH, MOVIE SET HERE BECAUSE EVERYTHING LOOKS THE SAME AND IS PAINTED, YOU KNOW, COLORS THAT ARE, SO TO ME, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE FOCUS THAT I WANT TO HAVE AND BRING TO THOSE PEOPLE IN CONVERSATIONS. UM, I'VE ACTUALLY REACHED OUT TO A COUPLE ARCHITECTS ALREADY, UH, TO GET THEIR OPINIONS AND JUST KINDA LEARN WHAT THEY SEE AS THE HEAD BLOCKS IN DEALING WITH OUR CURRENT CODE. BUT ZOOMING WAY OUT, AS YOU LIKE TO SAY, IT'S, SHOULD WE BE LEGISLATING THE LOOK OF SEDONA WHEN WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE LOOK IS? I HEAR YOU AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE, BUT I THINK THE REASON WHY 89 A THE EXISTING COMMERCIAL, I MEAN, EVERYTHING, A LOT OF BUILDINGS LOOK SO BEAT AND IT'S BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T WANNA TOUCH THEM BECAUSE THEN IF THEY WANT TO TOUCH THEM AND MAKE THEM REHABBED AND BEAUTIFUL AND DIFFERENT, THEN THEY HAVE TO COMPLETELY OVERHAUL AND MEET CODE AND IT'S, OR THEIR, IT'S COST PROHIBITIVE WHERE THEIR USES WON'T MEET CODE ANYMORE AND THEY CAN'T ACTUALLY KEEP THE BUSINESSES THAT EXIST. RIGHT. BECAUSE WHEN YOU BRING IT UP TO CODE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE SOME EXISTING USE STUFF THAT CAN HAPPEN TOO. RIGHT? AND ROB, WHAT YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE TOO, IS NOT WANTING TO CAP CREATIVITY, YOU KNOW? SO WE'LL FIGURE IT OUT. I'M EXCITED. I THINK THIS IS A WONDERFUL OPPORTUNITY, SO LET'S GO AFTER CODE THAT MAKES IT NOT FUN. I WANT FUN WRITTEN INTO CODE OR NOT. I DON'T NEED CODE FOR THAT. I WANT THE CODE THAT RESTRICTS FUN. YEAH. YOU DON'T WANNA GET IN THE WAY OF FUN. THAT'S THE WAY. AND I THINK, AND I THINK THAT CALLIE'S BROUGHT UP SOME REALLY INTERESTING THOUGHTS THAT DON'T AFFECT ME YET, BUT I SHOULD SAY THAT, KNOCK ON WOOD, MULTI-GENERATIONAL LIVING, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? MM-HMM . DIGGING OUT MY BASEMENT, PUTTING ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, MOTHER-IN-LAW SUITE DOWNSTAIRS OR CHILD SUITE, WHATEVER YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT IT, CHILD WHO CAN'T GET JOB SUITE, I DON'T KNOW, WHATEVER. BUT, UM, , BUT I, BUT I THINK THAT THAT'S TRUE, AND I KNOW WHY WE DON'T DO IT IS BECAUSE OF THE STR, RIGHT? BECAUSE THEN IT BECOMES A RENTAL SPACE AND THAT'S, WE'RE TRYING TO CONTROL THAT GROWTH BECAUSE OUR OWN STATE LEGISLATURE CAN'T SEEM TO FIGURE OUT HOW. UM, AND SO I THINK THAT, UM, [02:05:02] I THINK THOSE ARE REAL, REAL, REAL THINGS AND, AND HOW TO MAKE THAT WORK. AND, AND, AND, AND YOU'VE BROUGHT UP SOME GREAT STUFF AS A BUSINESS OWNER, SOME OF THE OBSTACLES THAT YOU'VE HAD AND HOW TO, YOU KNOW, HOW TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR A REGULAR, FOR A BUSINESS PERSON TO COME INTO IT. THERE'S, CALLIE HAS A KIND OF A, A BIG ADVANTAGE 'CAUSE SHE'S A SECOND GENERATIONAL THIRD GENERATIONAL SEDONA. SO SHE'S WATCHED SEDONA AS A CHILD AND, AND HER, HER PARENTS. AND, AND SO SHE'S SEEN THE EVOLUTION. SHE'S BEEN PART OF KIND OF A FRONT ROW SEED OF THE EVOLUTION OF CODE. SO SHE HAS LIKE A DIFFERENT, UH, LOOK BECAUSE OF HER EXPERIENCE. SO SHE UNDERSTANDS IT. BUT IF I WERE TO ALL OF A SUDDEN WANNA BUILD A COMMERCIAL BUILDING, I'LL, I'M GOING IN BLIND, RIGHT? AND, AND, AND I WON'T UNDERSTAND IT. AND EVEN SOMEONE WITH ALL HER EXPERIENCE THE CODE AT TIMES SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, THROWS HER FOR A LOOP. MM-HMM . UM, MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO, TO DO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT HERE. YEAH. AND, AND WHAT DOES THAT, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? SO I'M EXCITED ABOUT IT. I'M EXCITED ABOUT HAVING THE OPEN FORUM THAT'S NOT ON THE DAIS AND, UM, AND HEARING WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING AND, AND THE CREATIVITY CAP. I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S WITHIN REASON, BUT I'LL JUST SAY THAT I, I, YOU KNOW, I, THERE'S, THERE'S SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS, BUT, UM, BUT THEN LIKE YOU SAID, THEN YOU'RE LEGISLATING DESIGN. SO, UM, BUT I THINK IT'S GONNA BE A SUPER INTERESTING, AND I KNOW IT'S A LOT OF WORK FOR YOUR TEAM, BUT I THINK IT'S GONNA BE AN, AN INTERESTING JOURNEY AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO AN OUTCOME FOR SURE. HOPEFULLY I'M SITTING HERE AND I GET TO SEE IT. YEAH, I KNOW . OKAY, I'M GONNA OPEN IT TO THE PUBLIC. TIM. ALWAYS FOUR, FOUR. ALRIGHT. IS HE ALWAYS FOUR? FOUR. FOUR. GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS TIM PERRY AND I LIVE IN SEDONA. I THINK THERE'S A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING HERE THAT THESE CODE REVISIONS AND UPDATE NEED TO BE IN THE DIRECTION OF MUCH GREATER SIMPLIFICATION. BUT THERE'S ALSO A PARTICULAR KIND OF SIMPLIFICATION HERE, WHICH INVOLVES TAKING COMPLEX SETS OF ARBITRARY RULES AND IF POSSIBLE, REDUCING THEM INTO A MUCH SMALLER NUMBER OF SIMPLER GENERAL PRINCIPLES. ALL THROUGHOUT. A COUPLE EXAMPLES I'VE THOUGHT OF THAT MIGHT POP A FEW CIRCUIT BREAKERS FOR PEOPLE, BUT THEY'RE WORTH CONSIDERING. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF HEARTBURN IN RECENT YEARS, OR RECENT MONTHS TOO, OVER THE MASSING REQUIREMENTS AND THE UNRELIEVED BUILDING PLANES. SO ONE WAY TO DEAL WITH THAT MIGHT BE TO SIMPLY PROPOSE SOME PARAMETERS. NOTHING OVER ONE AND A HALF STORIES, NOTHING BIGGER THAN A CERTAIN FOOTPRINT. IT'S A DESIGN LIMITATION. BUT THEN WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE NOW ARE MUCH MORE COMPLEX DESIGN LIMITATIONS. THIS WOULD TEND TO KEEP THE GOAL IN MIND WITHOUT SPECIFYING EXACTLY HOW THAT GOAL HAD TO BE REACHED. AND IT WOULD ALSO LEAD TOWARDS THE AESTHETIC OUTCOME THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE SEEM TO BE LOOKING FOR. ANOTHER EXAMPLE THAT I WOULD USE IS, SUPPOSE THE CODE WERE TO INCLUDE A SIMPLE RULE THAT WHILE ALL EXTERIOR WALLS, FOR EXAMPLE, HAVE TO BE MADE OF MASONRY RAM DEARTH ADOBE, OR LOGS AND AT LEAST 12 INCHES THICK OLD FASHIONED. YES. BUT HOW MANY OTHER PROVISIONS ARE THERE ACROSS ALL THE CODES, BUILDING LAND, WHAT HAVE YOU, THAT THAT COULD ELIMINATE FIREPROOFING, INSULATION, AESTHETICS, ENGINEERING. YOU COULD CONDENSE A LOT WITH SIMPLE RULES WRITTEN IN THE RIGHT WAY. AND A SIMPLIFIED CODE WOULD DO TWO THINGS. FIRST OF ALL, IT WOULD MOVE US BACK A LITTLE MORE TOWARDS A POTENTIAL OWNER BUILDER PARADIGM IN WHICH WE COULD ACTUALLY GET GENUINELY WORKFORCE, GENUINELY AFFORDABLE HOUSING, BUILT IN A REASONABLE TIME AT A REASONABLE COST. THE OTHER THING A SIMPLIFIED CODE WOULD DO WOULD BE INCREASE COMMUNITY BUY-IN. IT'S A SIMPLE FACT THAT SELF-DISCIPLINE WORKS BETTER THAN IMPOSED DISCIPLINE. WHEN PEOPLE SUPPORT A SET OF RULES, THEY FOLLOW THEM. AND YOU DON'T NEED AN OUTSIDE ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM. THE CODE AS IT CURRENTLY EXISTS IS A SET OF ARBITRARY RULES MADE UP BY OUTSIDERS AND EMPLOYEES TO THE POINT OF, EXCUSE ME, IMPOSED TO THE POINT OF A GUN. PEOPLE DON'T LARGELY UNDERSTAND IT AND THEY DON'T WANT TO FOLLOW IT. BUT IF THEY UNDERSTOOD AND THEY WANTED TO FOLLOW THE CODE BECAUSE IT WAS BASED IN COMMON SENSE, THEN THERE WOULD BE THAT BUY-IN IN THE COMMUNITY AND YOU WOULDN'T NEED THE OUTSIDE ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM. SUCH AN APPROACH WOULD MOVE US CLOSER IN THE LONG TERM TOWARDS RESOLVING THE ETHICAL AS WELL AS THE PRACTICAL PROBLEM PRESENTED BY CODE. THESE ARE JUST A FEW BIG IDEAS THAT I HOPE THE COMMISSION AND TONY WILL CONSIDER AS THIS PROCESS MOVES FORWARD. THANK YOU TIM. OKAY. [02:10:02] THERE ARE NO OTHER COMMENT. WHAT, SORRY, I FORGOT. WE HAVE ONE MORE. UH, YEAH, IF THERE ARE NO OTHER COMMENTS, I'M GONNA CLOSE ITEM SEVEN AND MOVE ON [8. Discussion/possible action regarding amendments to the Planning and Zoning Commission Rules and Procedures.] TO ITEM AGENDA. ITEM EIGHT, DISCUSS IMPOSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING AMENDMENTS TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION RULES AND PROCEDURES. GREAT. THANK YOU CHAIR COMMISSIONERS. UH, THIS ITEM COMES AT A REQUEST OF A COUPLE COMMISSIONERS A COUPLE OF MEETINGS AGO, UH, ABOUT THE OPPORTUNITY OR CHANCE TO DO A ROTATING CHAIR. UH, I LOOKED AND I COULDN'T FIND ANY EXAMPLES OF OTHER PUBLIC BODIES HAVING JUST AN AUTOMATIC ROTATING CHAIR. UH, BUT I DID DRAFT UP SOMETHING THAT COULD POTENTIALLY WORK, UH, THAT WAS IN THE PACKET FOR YOU TO REVIEW. IT IS A LITTLE AWKWARD AND CUMBERSOME. UH, THERE HAS TO BE A LOT OF CAVEATS 'CAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT COULD HAPPEN ON WHEN IT'S AN AUTOMATIC CHAIR. SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I WOULD NECESSARILY RECOMMEND THAT THE COMMISSION, UH, DO. UM, I THINK, YOU KNOW, VOTING ONCE A YEAR ON A CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR IS A GOOD PROCEDURE AS IT IS RIGHT NOW, BUT, UH, THE, THE COMMISSION DID ASK FOR THIS, SO THAT'S WHAT'S BEFORE YOU. AND SO I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. SO I'D LIKE TO JUMP IN BECAUSE I WAS THE ONE THAT BROUGHT IT UP . SO, UM, AND I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL THE WORK THAT YOU DID. I REALLY DO APPRECIATE THAT. MY INTENTION OF BRINGING IT UP AT THAT MEETING WAS, UM, BECAUSE WE CAN'T, THIS IS REALLY THE ONLY FORMAT WHERE WE CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION WITHOUT BREAKING OPEN MEETING LAW WHERE IT INVOLVES EVERYBODY. MY INTENTION WAS TO BRING UP, UM, A CONCERN THAT I HAVE THAT WHEN SOMEBODY IS SEATED IN THE CHAIR, THEY PRESUMABLY ARE THAT AND CAN BE FOR QUITE SOME TIME. AND I PERSONALLY, IN MY EXPERIENCE, DON'T FEEL THAT THAT'S FAIR AND EQUITABLE. I FEEL LIKE WE ARE ALL EQUAL AND WE ALL LOOK AT THINGS THROUGH A DIFFERENT LENS AND WE SHOULD ALL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY. AND IT'S BEEN MY EXPERIENCE. UM, AND SOME OF IT UNPLEASANT THAT, YOU KNOW, I, I WANTED TO SHIFT SOMETHING AND I WANTED TO OPEN THE DIALOGUE AND I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK ROTATING IS THE WAY TO GO, BUT I WANNA FIND SOME WAY THAT WE CAN ALL HAVE OPEN COMMUNICATION, THAT IT'S A SAFE CONTAINER THAT IF SOMEBODY ELSE WANTS TO SIT IN BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE POWER , YOU KNOW, LIKE THIS IS A VOLUNTEER BOARD. WE'RE ALL HERE TO TRY AND BE OF SERVICE. AND I WANT TO TRY AND CHANGE A DYNAMIC THAT I HAVE EXPERIENCED THAT HAS BEEN UNPLEASANT IN THE PAST. AND SO THAT WAS MY INTENT, NOT NECESSARILY THAT THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WE NEEDED TO DO, SO I WANTED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION AND PUT IT OUT THERE SO THAT WE CAN, MAYBE, MAYBE IT'S A TERM LIMIT, MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING ELSE. BUT, UM, I DON'T THINK IT HAS TO BE THIS ROTATING. AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A HISTORY OF NOT ALWAYS DOING THE ELECTION ONCE A YEAR. AND SO, UM, I WANNA REMOVE ROADBLOCKS FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO BE SUCCESSFUL AND HAVE THEIR VOICE HEARD IF THEY WANNA DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT OR HAVE A DIFFERENT POSITION ON THIS COMMISSION. SO THAT WAS MY INTENTION. YEAH, THOSE ARE ALL WONDERFUL INTENTIONS. UH, TERM LIMITS ARE DEFINITELY A POSSIBILITY. UH, STAFFS IMPLEMENTED A FEW CHANGES SO THAT WE WILL NOT, UH, FORGET THE CHAIR. UH, POSITION'S ONLY GOOD FOR ONE YEAR, UH, ANYMORE. SO EVERY, THE FIRST MEETING AFTER EVERY JANUARY, UH, THE CHAIR WILL BE UP FOR VOTE. UM, YOU KNOW, CHAIRS ARE OFF ALSO, YOU KNOW, WILLING TO OR ABLE TO RESIGN FROM BEING CHAIRED ANYTIME TOO. MM-HMM . NOT FROM THE, OR FROM THE COMMISSION TOO, BUT FROM THE, FROM CHAIR AND RETAIN THEIR POSITION JUST AS A REGULAR COMMISSIONER. SO, BUT YEAH. HAPPY, HAPPY TO BE THE EXAMPLE AT SOME POINT. . SO I LIKE THE IDEA OF TERM LIMITS, WHETHER THAT'S FOREVER OR CONSECUTIVE. UM, I'M, I'M NOT AGAINST ROTATION EITHER. I THINK EVERY SIX MONTHS IS BURDENSOME. MM-HMM . UM, BUT I WOULDN'T BE AGAINST JUST LIKE BASICALLY A SCHEDULE JANUARY RO LIKE, HEY, DO YOU WANT IT? LIKE, IT'S NOT A VOTE, IT'S JUST WHOEVER'S NEXT ON THE LIST YOU WANT IT. NO. GREAT. NEXT ON THE LIST YOU WANT IT. NO. GREAT. OKAY. LIKE I'M OPEN TO LIKE EITHER OF THOSE THINGS. 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, WE'RE A VOTING BODY, BUT WE ARE EQUAL IN POWER. THE CHARIOT DOESN'T HOLD ANY MORE VOTES OR ANY MORE SWAY OR THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. WE ARE NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT HERE. NO. LIKE, YEAH. SO, YOU KNOW, I I THINK EITHER OF THOSE WILL SEEK THE SOLUTION. UM, I LIKE THE IDEA OF TAKING THE VOTE OUT OF IT. IT FEELS LIKE A, IT COULD, IT CAN SOMETIMES BE A WEIRD POPULARITY CONTEST AS IT HAPPENS, YOU KNOW, LIKE, SO TO HAVE A LIST, WHETHER THAT'S IN, I MEAN WE COULD DO IT IN, YOU KNOW, TIME ON COMMISSION, SO YOU'RE NEVER LIKE, HEY, I GOT A PO IN NOVEMBER AND YOU'RE NEXT ON THE LIST. LIKE, SO YOU'RE LIKE UNCOMFORTABLE. AND SOME PEOPLE MAY NEVER WANT, THEY MAY ALSO NOT WANT TO DO THAT. THE PASSES. I'M ONE OF THOSE , WE KNEW THAT. SO WHEN I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE ROTATION OR THE, I WAS THINKING MORE IN A YEAR AND MORE OF VERY SIMPLE. LIKE, HEY, WE COULD BE ALPHABETICAL. I JUST DON'T WANT SOMEONE TO GET APPOINTED AND THEN IMMEDIATELY LIKE BE LIKE, HEY, YOU WANNA BE CHAIR? 'CAUSE I THINK THAT WOULD BE REALLY HARD. RIGHT. UM, I THINK JUST BEING ABLE TO HAVE THE CONTAINER WHERE WE CAN HAVE AN [02:15:01] OPEN CONVERSATION ABOUT IT MM-HMM . AND WITH PEOPLE UNDERSTANDING THAT IT'S, THERE'S NO HIERARCHY. THIS IS, WE ARE ALL OF SERVICE HERE, WE'RE ALL DOING THE BEST THAT WE CAN. SO LET'S TAKE THAT OUT OF IT. I THINK WHERE THE OBSTACLE COMES IN, I AGREE WITH YOU A HUNDRED PERCENT MM-HMM . BUT I THINK WHERE THE OBSTACLE COMES IN IS WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEONE SITTING ON PNZ THAT HAS POLITICAL ASPIRATIONS AND IT IS USEFUL FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS POLITICAL ASPIRATIONS TO PUT CHAIR PLANNING AND ZONING ON THEIR RESUME AS THEY RUN FOR OFFICE. WELL, HOW REFRESHING WOULD THAT BE IF SOMEBODY SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT GUYS? I HAVE SOME POLITICAL ASPIRATIONS AND SO I'M INTERESTED IN THIS. RIGHT. RIGHT. YEAH. RIGHT. I AGREE. SO THAT'S THE ONLY PLACE WHERE I COULD SEE THE OBSTACLE OF IT. I'M IN SUPPORT OF IT. I THINK, UM, WHEN YOU CHAIR ANYTHING, A COMMISSION, A NONPROFIT, A BOARD, THERE'S A, THERE'S, THERE'S A MENTAL, A ACTIVATION THAT OCCURS WHEN YOU'RE RUNNING THE MEETING, HOW YOU'RE NEGOTIATING AND NAVIGATING THE TONE OF THE MEETING. IT'S A REALLY GREAT SKILLSET BUILDER. MM-HMM . IT REALLY IS. AND, AND NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE IN YOUR LIFE, IT'S NOT A BAD THING TO, TO, TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS OF BEING A CHAIR OF SOMETHING. YEP. AND SO HISTORICALLY, THAT REALLY WASN'T AFFORDED TO PEOPLE THAT WERE COMING ON FOR DEVELOPMENT OF LEADERSHIP EITHER. YEAH. SO EVEN IF YOU HAD SOMEONE WHO WAS RUNNING FOR OFFICE OR INTERESTED TO RUN FOR OFFICE, IT WOULD ALSO GIVE THEM THE OPPORTUNITY AND SKILLSET TO HAVE MORE SKILLS IN THE FUTURE TO REPRESENT THE COMMUNITY. YEAH. SO I THINK IT'S A, A GREAT IDEA. I THINK LEAVING IT OPEN AND, AND MAYBE HAVING IT ON THE AGENDA, THE MEETING BEFORE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO ELECT TO, HEY, LET'S HAVE A CONVERSATION. WHAT WE, WHAT WE WANNA DO FOR JANUARY, WHO'S INTERESTED IN RUNNING FOR CHAIR? WE KNOW WILL'S GONNA SAY NO. UM, AND, AND YOU KNOW, VARIOUS PEOPLE ARE GONNA BECAUSE BEING CHAIR YES. THERE'S NO POWER ISSUES IN THERE EXCEPT THERE'S A TIME COMMITMENT AND A PREP COMMITMENT THAT IS MORE THAN A COMMISSIONER. YEAH. AND SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN PEOPLE WANNA BE CHAIR, THEY HAVE TO RECOGNIZE, DO I HAVE THE BANDWIDTH TO BE CHAIR? RIGHT. AND THERE'S PEOPLE HERE WHO MAY NOT HAVE THE BANDWIDTH TO BE CHAIR. NOT THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO, BUT THEY JUST RIGHT. THEY DON'T HAVE THE TIME. AND SO, UM, BUT IT'S A REALLY GREAT SKILL DEVELOPMENT. WELL, YEAH. IT JUST REALLY IS. I CAN, I'M WAY OUTTA MY COMFORT ZONE, WAY OUTTA MY COMFORT ZONE AND I CAN JUST SHARE MY EXPERIENCE. JUST THE FEW TIMES THAT I'VE DONE THIS, YOU KNOW, I'VE NOTICED I HAVE TO PAY MORE ATTENTION TO THE STRUCTURE RIGHT. THAN BEING ABLE TO BE AS MINDFUL AND ENGAGED IN THE CONVERSATIONS. AND SO THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING. IT'S A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE. I THINK I PREFER SITTING ELSEWHERE. SO, UM, ANYWAY, SO I JUST WANT US TO COLLABORATIVELY WORK TOGETHER AND SOUNDS GOOD. TRY SOME COHESIVENESS. I AS THE, UH, SO WHEN WE ELECTED THE LAST FOR YOU CHAIR, UH, I WAS TALKING WITH MY WIFE AND I SAID, MAN, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO VOTE FOR THE CHAIR. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO WANTS TO BE CHAIR. I DON'T KNOW THE PROCESS THEY'RE GOING THROUGH. THIS SEEMS KIND OF WEIRD. AND UH, UH, SO I, I THINK I'M FINE WITH LEAVING THE RULES JUST THE WAY THEY ARE. TO ME, THE SEVEN OF US, IF WE GET ANOTHER PERSON, WE JUST HAVE TO MAKE OURSELVES ACCOUNTABLE TO EACH OTHER AND JUST SAY WHO'S INTERESTED. AND UN YOU KNOW, WE STILL VOTE AND IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO ALWAYS BE CHAIR, WE JUST DON'T VOTE FOR THAT PERSON. , I MEAN, IT, IT'S, WE CAN, WE CAN TAKE CARE OF THIS OURSELVES BY JUST OPEN DISCUSSION. EXACTLY. BUT I WAS, IT WAS VERY INTERESTING TO ME THAT I DIDN'T KNOW WHO WANTED TO BE CHAIR OR WHO THOUGHT THEY MIGHT BE CHAIR. AND I FOUND OUT SOME PEOPLE HAD YOU IN MIND, BUT IT WAS NEWS TO ME AND I WAS FINE WITH THAT CHOICE. BUT I THINK JUST THE SEVEN OF US JUST HAVE TO DISCUSS IT AND, YOU KNOW, NOT HAVE ANY EGOS AND, AND WE WILL CONTROL, WE CAN CONTROL, WE CAN SELF CONTROL THE PROBLEMS. RIGHT. WE AS OUR CURRENT CAN, I THINK THIS IS KIND OF A FUTURE PROOFING AND I HAD TO VOTE FOR CHAIR MY VERY FIRST MEETING. I HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS GOING ON. LIKE VERY, VERY FIRST MEETING I THINK YOU DID TOO. . I HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS GOING ON. UM, I THINK THAT MAYBE A POTENTIAL KIND OF WAY FORWARD WITH THIS, THIS WOULD BE TO AGENDIZE A DISCUSSION AROUND THIS LIKE KIND OF PERMANENTLY THE MEETING BEFORE THE VOTE. YEP. I THINK THAT'S GREAT. SO WE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION OF WHO'S INTERESTED AND THEN EVEN IT'S LIKE A PSEUDO INTERVIEWEE. LIKE IF WE DON'T, IF SOMEONE NEW IS INTERESTED, MAYBE WE CAN HAVE THAT CONVERSATION OF LIKE, WHY, LIKE TELL US AND THAT JUST GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY NOT TO BE WORRIED ABOUT BREAKING OPEN MEETING LAWS WHILE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO WANTS THE EXTRA WORK. YEAH. RIGHT. RIGHT. BECAUSE THAT WAS THE TENSION OF LIKE, IS IT GONNA JUST LIKE BE RANDOM MM-HMM. MOTION LIKE RIGHT, RIGHT. AND TO BE SUPPORTIVE AND TO UNDERSTAND. I THINK IT'S JUST TRANSPARENCY [02:20:01] IS BEST WAY TO GO. SO I WOULD ASSUME WE DIDN'T, DON'T NEED TO CHANGE. SO THAT WAS THE INTENTION. KURT , WE PROBABLY DON'T NEED TO CHANGE ANY RULES. JUST ASK TO ADD AN AGENDA ITEM THE MEETING BEFORE. YES. THAT'S ONE OPTION. YOU COULD ALSO DEFER THIS CONSIDERATION TO THE, THE LAST MEETING OF THIS YEAR, YOU KNOW, BEFORE THE JANUARY MEETING. UH, AND THAT WOULD BRING THIS BACK UP IF YOU WANTED TO REVISIT IT, THEN I COULD SOMETIME IN THAT MEANTIME CHANGE IT TO AN ANNUAL ROTATION JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE. INSTEAD OF THE SIX MONTH TO SIX MONTH WAS SHORTLY, IT CAME WITH A LOT OF CAVEATS. LIKE IF YOU ONLY HAD A COUPLE MEETINGS THAT YOU GOT RIGHT. SO THAT, UH, ONE YEAR ONE WOULD ELIMINATE A LOT OF THAT. UM, SO EITHER WAY, UH, OKAY. SHOULD WE PUSH THIS ITEM? SHOULD WE PUSH THIS ITEM TO THE LAST, TO THE DECEMBER MEETING THEN? IS THAT WHAT, JUST TABLE IT UNTIL THAT TIME? YEAH. YEP. THAT'S ONE OPTION. AND IF WE DON'T, IF WE DON'T PLAN ON HAVING ONE IN DECEMBER, WE'LL CATCH YOU IN IN NOVEMBER IF WE CAN FIGURE OUT. WE'LL, SO JUST THE, THE LAST PLANNED MEETING OF THE YEAR. THAT SOUNDS GOOD. TALK ABOUT IT. THANK YOU. SO WE, WE JUST NEED A, A MOTION ON THAT AND UH, I MOVE TO DEFER THIS ITEM TO THE LAST PLANNED MEETING OF 2026. I SECOND . ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED. PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU KURT. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP, KURT. OKAY. UH, CLOSING THAT [9. FUTURE MEETING DATES AND AGENDA ITEMS] ITEM. MOVING ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER NINE, FUTURE MEETING DATES AND AGENDA ITEMS. UM, SO THE NEXT MEETING WOULD BE YOUR MAY MEETING. WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING OFFICIALLY ON THE SCHEDULE, BUT, UM, WE HAVE A COUPLE PROJECTS THAT, UM, WE WILL LIKELY WANT TO BE AT LEAST GIVING SOME UPDATES ON. UM, BUT I'M NOT GONNA SAY MORE THAN THAT RIGHT NOW 'CAUSE I'LL COMMIT TO SOMETHING. BUT, UM, WE'RE PLANNING ON HAVING A MEETING AND, UM, IF THERE ARE NO, YOU KNOW, CS OR ZONE CHANGES, WHICH I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE WILL BE, WE'LL DO SOME UPDATES SIMILAR TO LIKE WHAT TONY DID ON SOME OF THE THINGS WE'RE WORKING ON AND WHAT WE WANT, WE WANT FEEDBACK ON. OKAY. THANK YOU. CAN I, CARRIE, I DIDN'T GET ANY NOTIFICATION ABOUT THIS MEETING FOR SOME REASON. UH, SO, UM, I JUST HAPPENED TO LOOK AT THE WEBSITE AND SAW THERE WAS ONE FOR SURE. SO IT'S EITHER SOMETHING WRONG WITH YEAH. NOTIFICATIONS OR, OR SOMETHING. YEAH. SO YOU SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED AN EMAIL. SO IF YOU HAVEN'T THEN WE'LL NEED TO GET YOU IN TOUCH WITH IT TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS LOOKING GOOD WITH THAT. OKAY. AND THEN I GUESS AS WE LOOK TOWARDS SUMMER, MAKING SURE WE HAVE A QUO ROOM WITH VACATION SCHEDULES. YEAH. OKAY. HOPEFULLY THE ONE MEETING A MONTH WILL RIGHT. PLAN ALL YOUR VACATIONS AROUND BEING IN SEDONA THE FIRST WEEK OF EVERY MONTH. OKAY. CLOSING THAT ITEM. SO IF THERE'S NO FURTHER OBJECTIONS, I WILL ADJOURN THE MEETING AT SEVEN 12. . * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.