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[1. CALL TO ORDER, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIENCE, ROLL CALL]
MEETING TO ORDER.TODAY IS MAY 5TH FOR THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.
LET'S RISE FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE P TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS.
ONE NATION UNDER GOD, THE INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
OKAY, ROLL CALL CHAIR WHEEL HERE.
I'D LIKE TO CLOSE THAT AND MOVE ON TO AGENDA.
[2. ANNOUNCEMENTS & SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY COMMISSIONERS & STAFF]
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO, ANNOUNCEMENTS AND SUMMARY OF CURRENT EVENTS BY COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF.CARRIE, WE'LL START WITH YOU GUYS.
UM, I SENT AN EMAIL TO YOU YESTERDAY REGARDING A POTENTIAL TOUR OF THE VILLAS ON SHELBY'S SHELBY PROJECT.
UM, AND SO IF YOU COULD JUST LET LAURA KNOW IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN GOING TO THAT, UM, ONE OF THOSE TOURS IN WHICH ONE YOU'D BE INTERESTED IN GOING TO.
UM, SO WE, I WILL BE SENDING YOU AN EMAIL, UM, FOR ANYONE THAT IS INTERESTED ON THE 18TH AND 19TH OF THIS MONTH, WE ARE HOSTING A HOUSING THINK TANK AS PART OF THE BALANCED HOUSING STRATEGY.
SO IT'S A ONE AND A HALF DAY, UH, WORK SESSION.
UM, WE ARE, UH, ESSENTIALLY MOVING FROM THE ANALYSIS STAGE TO THE SOLUTIONS AND STRATEGY STAGE.
SO IT'S, UH, UM, SHOULD BE A PRETTY LIVELY TIME.
AND WE ARE HAVING A GUEST SPEAKER, UM, ON WEDNESDAY.
UH, GENTLEMAN FROM OPTICO, UH, STEFAN, I CANNOT REMEMBER HOW TO SAY STEFAN'S LAST NAME AND I'LL APOLOGIZE.
BUT ANYWAY, HE'S A SPECIALIST IN, UH, MISSING MENTAL HOUSING AND HOW TO INTEGRATE MISSING MENTAL HOUSING INTO COMMUNITIES.
SO, UM, BUT, UH, IT'S GONNA BE, WE'RE SUPER EXCITED ABOUT IT AND, UH, WE'RE GONNA SEE WHERE IT GOES, BUT JUST WANT TO, WE, WE'LL EXTEND THE INVITATION TO Y'ALL AS WELL.
UM, WE ARE, UH, IT'S RSVP ONLY.
UM, SO IT'S OPEN TO ANYBODY, BUT WE DO HAVE A LIMITED NUMBER OF SEATS.
AND SO, UM, IF YOU'RE INTERESTED, JOIN THE PARTY.
SO WE'RE UP AT ABOUT 50 RIGHT NOW.
UM, WE EXPECT IT TO BE FULL BEFORE THE PRESENTATION.
SO I SIGNED UP FOR THAT ONLINE AND MM-HMM
HOW MANY, HOW MANY PEOPLE IS THAT OPEN TO? THAT'S ONE TICKET.
SO IF YOU'VE GOT MORE PEOPLE THAT WOULD LIKE TO COME IN, OR IF YOU KNOW SOMEBODY THAT WOULD LIKE TO BE A PART OF IT, LET 'EM KNOW.
BUT HOW MANY ARE WE, YOU SAID IT'S GONNA BE A LIMITED AMOUNT OF PEOPLE.
WHAT ARE WE CAPPING IT AT? SO WE'RE CAPPING IT AT 70.
70 SO THAT WAY WE CAN, WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT IF WE GET TOO LARGE THEN THERE'S TOO MANY PEOPLE AT EACH TABLE, AND THEN IT GETS OVERWHELMING AS FAR AS BEING ABLE TO HAVE A GOOD, ROBUST DISCUSSION.
MY OTHER QUESTION IS, IS IT IS A DAY AND A HALF IF PEOPLE HAVE OTHER COMMITMENTS, ARE THEY ABLE TO POP IN AND OUT? YES.
OR DO THEY HAVE TO STAY? OKAY.
WE DON'T REQUIRE SOMEBODY TO, THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT ARE REQUIRED TO BE THERE FOR A DAY AND A HALF ARE STAFF AND, UH, I THINK STEFAN IS REQUIRED TO BE THERE SINCE WE'RE PAYING HIM.
ANY ANNOUNCEMENTS UP HERE? WE STILL HAVE A VACANCY.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WE ARE INTERVIEWING SOMEBODY, UM, I THINK THEY'RE CURRENTLY OUT OF THE COUNTRY, SO HOPEFULLY IN JUNE.
UM, BUT STILL PUTTING A SHAMELESS PLUG OUT THERE FOR PEOPLE TO PLEASE APPLY.
IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A LOT OF INTEREST.
THIS IS FUN, RIGHT, EVERYBODY? YES.
WOULD, WOULD A PRACTICING ARCHITECT OR ENGINEER WITH THAT PRACTICES WITHIN SEDONA BE APPROPRIATE? YES.
THEY WOULD, I MIGHT REACH OUT TO A FEW.
THEY WOULD JUST HAVE TO RECUSE THEMSELVES.
IF THERE'S NOTHING ELSE, I WILL CLOSE AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE AND MOVE ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR.
[3. APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES]
APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES.THERE'S NO CHANGES OR REVISIONS.
I WILL CONSIDER THOSE MINUTES APPROVED.
CLOSING THAT ITEM, ITEM NUMBER FOUR, PUBLIC FORUM.
THIS IS THE TIME FOR THE PUBLIC TO COMMENT ON MATTERS NOT LISTED ON THE AGENDA.
THE COMMISSION MAY NOT DISCUSS ITEMS THAT ARE NOT SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED ON THE AGENDA PURSUANT TO A RS 38 DASH 4 31 0 1 H.
ACTION TAKEN AS A RESULT OF PUBLIC COMMENT WILL BE LIMITED TO DIRECTING STAFF TO STUDY THE MATTER, RESPONDING TO CRITICISM
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OR SCHEDULING THE MATTER FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION AND DECISION AT A LATER DATE.I DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING, SO I WILL CLOSE THAT ITEM AND MOVE ON TO AGENDA ITEM
[5. Presentation/discussion regarding the Uptown & State Route 179 Corridor CFA Plan and Planning Process.]
NUMBER FIVE, PRESENTATION DISCUSSION REGARDING THE UPTOWN AND STATE ROUTE 1 79 CORRIDOR CFA PLAN AND PLANNING PROCESS.DO YOU GUYS HAVE A PRESENTATION? I DO.
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSIONERS.
MY NAME IS CHRISTIAN SANTA GONZALEZ.
I AM A SENIOR PLANNER WITH THE CITY OF SEDONA.
SO BEFORE YOU TODAY IS THE UPTOWN AND STATE ROUTE 1 79 CORRIDOR CFA PLAN UPDATE.
SO THE UPTOWN AND STATE ROUTE 1 79 CORRIDOR COMMUNITY FOCUS AREA IS LOCATED WITHIN THE EAST BOUNDARIES OF SEDONA WITHIN THE COCONINO COUNTY.
THE BOUNDARY LIMITS STRETCHES NORTH AND SOUTH ALONG NORTH 89 A AND STATE ROUTE 1 79 FOR APPROXIMATELY 4.2 MILES.
UH, THIS BOUNDARY LIMIT IS OPEN TO CHANGE, UH, BASED ON FEEDBACK.
ANOTHER NOTE IS THAT THE AREA REFERRED TO UPTOWN IS EVERYTHING, UH, NORTH OF THE Y INTERSECTION.
AND EVERYTHING SOUTH OF THE Y INTERSECTION IS REFERRED TO AS THE STATE ROUTE 1 79 CORRIDOR.
SO THE 2013 COMMUNITY PLAN SET, UH, GENERAL, GENERAL AREAS FOR CFA PLANS.
NOW, THE 2024 COMMUNITY PLAN, UH, REVISED THE CURRENT BOUNDARY TO COMBINE THREE COMMUNITY FOCUS AREA INTO ONE.
THOSE THREE CFAS WERE THE NORTH OAK CREEK CFA, THE UPTOWN CFA, AND THE RANGER ROAD CFA.
UM, THE 2024 COMMUNITY PLAN RECOMMENDS A SINGLE, UH, CFA PLAN FOR THIS AREA.
SO LET'S DISCUSS A LITTLE BIT OF THE PREVIOUS PLAN EFFORTS THAT WERE CONDUCTED IN 2019.
A UPTOWN CFA PLAN DRAFT WAS INITIATED, UM, IN 2022.
THAT INITIAL DRAFT FOR THE UPTOWN CFA PLAN WAS PRESENTED TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AND ALSO COUNCIL, UM, AT THAT TIME, COUNCIL DIRECTED STAFF TO PAUSE THE CFA PLAN.
UM, ONE OF THE REASONS IS THAT THERE WAS A COMMUNITY PLAN UPDATE THAT WHAT THAT WAS COMPLETED.
EVERY 10 YEARS THAT UPDATE HAS TO BE COMPLETED.
THE SECOND REASON WAS THAT, UM, THERE WAS A SERIES OF CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM PROJECTS THAT WERE COMPLETED OR THAT ARE, WERE IN PRO ARE IN PROGRESS.
UM, SOME OF THOSE PROJECTS INCLUDE THE UPTOWN MEDIAN AND ROUNDABOUTS, THE ONB WAY ROADWAY IMPROVEMENT, THE OAK CREEK PEDESTRIAN CROSSING, THE RANGER STATION, PARK MASTER PLAN, AND THE RANGER STATION PARK ENHANCEMENTS.
AND LASTLY, THE CITY OFFICES IN MUNICIPAL COURT BUILDING WERE ALL COMPLETED SINCE 2019.
AND REALLY BASED ON THESE REASONS ALONE, UH, COUNSEL, UH, MADE A DECISION TO START THE PLANNING PROCESS, UH, WITH REFRESHED EYES TO DRAFT A NEW CFA PLAN.
SO STAFF ARE CURRENTLY, WE'RE CURRENTLY DRAFTING AN INTRODUCTION AND EXISTING CONDITIONS OF THE PLAN.
WE'RE ALSO CURRENTLY DRAFTING A SERIES OF SURVEYS FOR VARIOUS AUDIENCE GROUPS.
SOME OF THESE GROUPS INVOLVE THE BUSINESS OWNERS, RESIDENTS, UM, AND THESE INCLUDE RESIDENTS FOR THE UPTOWN AND ALL OF SEDONA.
WE'RE ALSO GONNA BE DRAFTING SURVEYS FOR PROPERTY OWNERS AND ALSO EMPLOYEES.
SO WE WILL REACH A WIDE VARIETY OF AUDIENCE GROUPS.
SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEPS? WELL, WE LIKE TO PERFORM AND COMPLETE THIS.
THE, UH, INITIAL SURVEYS TO THE VARIOUS GROUPS THAT I JUST MENTIONED.
WE ANTICIPATE TO START IN MAY WITH A COMPLETION DATE SOMETIME IN JUNE OR JULY.
SO WE ALSO LIKE TO HOLD A SERIES OF PUBLIC
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ENGAGEMENT MEETINGS, WHICH INCLUDE A CHARETTE, UM, STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS.AND WE WILL ALSO ENGAGE COMMUNITY GROUPS.
AND THIS WILL INCLUDE, UM, PAST COMMUNITY GROUPS AND EXISTING COMMUNITY GROUPS THAT WERE INVOLVED IN THE PREVIOUS PLAN.
UM, AND THEN WITH THAT, UM, ONCE THOSE ENGAGEMENT MEETINGS ARE COMPLETED, WE WILL COMPLETE THE INITIAL DRAFT OF THAT CFA PLAN BASED OF COURSE, ON PUBLIC MEETING RESULTS.
UM, I WOULD LOVE TO ASK YOU A SERIES OF QUESTIONS TO THE COMMISSIONERS JUST FOR, JUST TO GRAB SOME SUGGESTIONS, SOME INPUT, SOME INSIGHT INTO, UM, THIS INITIAL DRAFT.
SO, UM, JUST VERY QUICKLY WITH TIME ALLOWANCE OF COURSE.
UM, SO WHAT'S YOUR FAVORITE THING ABOUT THE UPTOWN IN STATE ROUTE 1 79 CORRIDOR? I WILL GO.
UM, MY FAVORITE THING IS IT'S DYNAMIC AND FULL OF PEOPLE.
ONE OF THE FEW PLACES IN THERE.
UH, THE ACTUAL CORRIDOR, NOT THE OFFSHOOTS ARE ONE OF THE ACTUALLY WALKABLE PLACES IN SEDONA.
UM, THERE'S A HILL TO OVERCOME, BUT WHY THERE IS PATHWAYS ONCE YOU EXIT 89 A AND 1 79, HOWEVER, THERE IS NO MORE SIDEWALKS.
UM, SO I THINK THAT'S A, A BIG PRIORITY TO ME IN THESE FOCUS AREAS IS I RE-LOOKED AT THE ORIGINAL CFA, UM, I WAS HERE FOR THAT.
I SAW IT, IT WAS EARLY IN MY PLANNING AND ZONING LIFE.
UM, I THINK IT, I HOPE THAT YOU GUYS USE THAT AS A, I THINK IT'S A STILL A VERY GOOD DOCUMENT.
THE UPTOWN CFA, IT GUESSED PRETTY WELL WHAT WAS COMING.
UM, AND SO I HOPE THAT THAT'S ENCOURAGED.
'CAUSE I THINK THAT IT REALLY FOCUSED ON REDEVELOPMENT TO STREET SCAPE, UM, COMPLETE STREETS WALKABILITY ACCESS.
AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING IN THERE THAT WOULDN'T BE HELPFUL DOWN THE 1 79 CORRIDOR.
UM, REGARDLESS OF THAT, THAT IS OUR MOST DENSE, MOST WALKABLE PLACE IN TOWN, WHICH GIVES PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY TO STAY AT AMARA AND NOT GET IN THEIR CAR IF IT'S A, IF IT'S A COMFY PLACE TO WALK.
UM, BUT ONCE YOU LEAVE, WELL, WALKING DOWN THE BIG ROAD'S NOT ALWAYS SUPER GREAT, BUT THERE IS AT LEAST THE WALKABILITY ASPECT.
BUT ONCE YOU LEAVE THOSE MAIN ROADS, IT'S NO LONGER A COMFORTABLE PLACE TO WALK IN ANY OF THIS CORRIDOR THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING.
ONE OF MY BUSINESSES IN UP IS IN UPTOWN, SPECIFICALLY IN A HIGHLY UN WALKABLE AREA.
UM, AND I, ONE THING I REALLY LIKED BOTH PERSONALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY ABOUT THIS PREVIOUS CFA IS LOOKING AT JORDAN ROAD AS THE COMMERCIAL DISTRICT.
AND THIS ORIGINAL CFA WAS SEEN AS AN OFFSHOOT TRYING TO GET PEOPLE OFF THE MAIN DRAG.
AND BECAUSE THERE IS A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT ALL THE WAY DOWN THAT ROAD, AND IT CAN GET FORGOTTEN ABOUT, UH, PRETTY EASILY.
YOU HAVE THE HERITAGE MUSEUM AT THE END.
THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE I SEND TO THE HERITAGE MUSEUM WHO CAN'T FIND IT WHEN IT'S A FIVE MINUTE ADDITIONAL WALK PAST MY BUSINESS.
I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY ON JORDAN ROAD AND THIS PREVIOUS CFA DID A GOOD JOB AT REALLY LOOKING AT WHAT RIO DEVELOPMENT ON JORDAN ROAD WOULD LOOK LIKE, UM, AND HOW WE COULD GET PEOPLE TO ENGAGE WITH OTHER ASPECTS OF THE COMMERCIAL ZONING AND UPTOWN, BESIDES JUST THE MAIN STRIP.
AND I THINK THE SAME CAN BE SAID ABOUT THE WHOLE CORRIDOR ITSELF, RIGHT? HOW DO WE GET PEOPLE INTO THE CORRIDOR AND NOT JUST ON THE EDGES OF IT.
AND IN THAT CORRIDOR, WE NEED PEOPLE OUTTA THEIR CARS MORE THAN ANYWHERE ELSE.
SO, UH, FIGURING OUT HOW TO GET THEM WALKING FROM THE PARKING GARAGE FROM ANY OF THE OTHER PARKING OPTIONS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE MAMMOTH HILL, BETWEEN BLOCK KOCK AND UPTOWN, IS GONNA BE, I THINK, A BIG DISCUSSION POINT FOR THIS.
I THINK I'M GONNA PASS RIGHT NOW.
I AVOID THE AREA AT ALL COSTS, SO I THINK I DO NEED TO GO AND GIVE IT A LOOK.
I THINK WHAT STANDS OUT FOR ME THE MOST IS THE SENSE OF PLACE AND MOST RECENTLY THE INTEGRATION OF ART INTO THE EXPERIENCE.
UM, THE CORRIDOR ISN'T JUST BECOMING ABOUT THE VIEWS, IT'S ACTUALLY BECOMING LIKE A CURATED VISUAL JOURNEY.
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HAVE THE ART AND THE ROUNDABOUTS.WE HAVE THE NEW SIDEWALK THAT HAS THOSE SIGNAGE ALONG THE WAY WITH THE ANIMAL FOOTPRINTS IN THE CONCRETE.
UM, WE HAVE THE RECENT, YOU KNOW, JAMES MUIR INSTALLATION.
UM, I THINK IT'S THIS WEEKEND.
THE SEDONA DANCE PROJECT IS DOING THINGS SATURDAY AND SUNDAY WHERE THEY'RE CREATING A VISUAL DANCE EXPERIENCE THROUGH TILAK ALONG THE WINDOW.
UM, SO WHAT I LIKE ABOUT IT IS HOW MUCH WE'RE INTRODUCING ART INTO THE CORRIDOR AND IT'S BECOMING REALLY UNIQUE, I THINK, UM, COMPARED TO OTHER TOWNS.
I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE THAT CONTINUE TO BE SOMETHING THAT WE FOLLOW.
UM, YOU KNOW, PROPS GO OUT TO NANCY.
I THINK SHE'S PUT A LOT OF EFFORT AND WORK INTO REALLY MAKING SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL AND REALLY, YOU KNOW, IN, UM, SUPPORTING THE ARTS IN OUR CITY, WHICH WE NEED.
SHE'S, WHAT, WHAT IS CITY SEDONA ART MANAGER? WHAT'S HER CULTURE? COORDINATE? ARTS CULTURE.
I DON'T KNOW WHY SHE'S NOT A DIRECTOR YET.
I DON'T KNOW, BUT SHE SHOULD BE.
UM, SO ANYWAY, SO I'D LIKE TO CONTINUE TO SEE THAT.
SO, AND I THINK WE JUST GOT A MURAL DOWN AT THE RANGER PARK TOO, RIGHT? DIDN'T WE HAVE SOME BEAUTIFUL MURAL? SO IT'S REALLY, IT'S WEAVED INTO THE FABRIC OF THAT CORRIDOR.
UM, THE, THE QUESTION KIND OF TOOK ME, I WAS LIKE, I THINK OF MORE NEGATIVE THINGS THAN THE POSITIVE
SO I WAS SITTING HERE AND I WAS LIKE, OH, IT'S TRUE.
THE ARTWORK IS BEAUTIFUL, THE PARTS THAT ARE WALKABLE, UM, AND DRIVABLE REALLY ON A SUNDAY AFTERNOON.
SO I THINK I NEED TO COME BACK TO THIS ACTUALLY AND THINK, WHAT ARE MY FAVORITE THINGS? 'CAUSE I ALSO AVOID IT UNLESS THERE'S REALLY, REALLY SOMETHING I WANT TO SEE.
BUT IT'S USUALLY ON A WEDNESDAY WHEN NOBODY'S THERE.
WELL, THAT IS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS.
SO THAT'S WHY I WAS LIKE, I, I I YOU WANNA SAVE IT FOR THAT? OKAY.
I'LL SPEAK, I'LL SPEAK MORE IF NO ONE ELSE IS.
'CAUSE I SPEND A LOT OF TIME UP THERE.
UM, THE ADDITION OF FOREST ROAD HAS REALLY CHANGED THE LOCAL DYNAMIC OF UPTOWN.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T GO, GETTING TO UPTOWN IS NO LONGER A PAIN OR GETTING OUT OF UPTOWN.
UM, I USE FOREST ROAD ALMOST EVERY DAY.
UH, I THINK THAT AS A LOCAL, THAT'S A FIRST STEP IN ENCOURAGING ACCESS.
UM, CURRENTLY THERE ISN'T A LOT OF LOCAL DRAW TO THESE PLACES, AS WE CAN TELL.
THERE'S MAYBE SOME EVENTS, THERE'S SOME ART MM-HMM
UM, BUT BUSINESSES AREN'T FOCUSED TOWARDS OUR LOCALS.
SO FINDING THAT REDEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITY, I THINK FOR MIXED, AGAIN, THE PREVIOUS CFA DID A GOOD JOB FOR THIS ENCOURAGING OF MIXED USE AND REDEVELOPMENT, UM, FOR POTENTIAL DIVERSIFICATION OF BUSINESS IN UPTOWN.
UH, I THINK IS KIND OF A NO BRAINER WHEN IT COMES TO LOOKING AT THIS.
IT'S A UPTOWN IS OUR MOST DENSE NEIGHBORHOOD.
UM, THERE ARE THE MOST HOUSES IN THE SMALLEST LOTS.
IT'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, HEAVILY IMPACTED BY, UM, SHORT-TERM RENTALS.
HOWEVER, THERE'S STILL A LOT OF PEOPLE, A LOT OF RESIDENTS WHO LIVE UP LIVE UP THERE.
AND A LOT OF RESIDENTS WHO I'VE TALKED TO, I GET A DECENT AMOUNT OF UPTOWN LOCALS BECAUSE I'M AT THE EDGE.
I'M EASIER TO WALK TO THAN THE REST.
AND OTHER THAN THE, THE SAFETY FACT OF WALKING, THEY WANT TO GO TO UPTOWN.
THEY WANT TO WALK IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS AND, AND BE SAFE AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
SO, UM, I'D ENCOURAGE, I DON'T HAVE A CHOICE ABOUT GOING UPTOWN.
UM, BUT I'D ENCOURAGE YOU IF YOU TRY TO AVOID IT, USE FOREST ROAD.
UM, ESPECIALLY 'CAUSE THE PARKING GARAGE IS ALMOST DONE.
SO GETTING OUT OF THERE IS NOT AS NOT FUN ANYMORE.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, TAKE A LOOK AT THE, THE OUTSKIRTS A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW.
SO IT'S FUNNY, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES IF I'M TRYING TO GET OVER TO 1 79 AND THE TRAFFIC IS LIKE REALLY BACKED UP TO LIKE, YOU DO FOREST AND DOWN, I DO FOREST AND THEN COME BACK DOWN.
DON'T SELL OUR SECRETS AS OUR LOCAL SECRETS.
JUST, I, I DO GO TO THE MUSEUM ON, I LOVE THE MUSEUM.
THE MUSEUM SHOULD BE A CRITICAL COMPONENT OF THIS PLAN.
I THINK IT IS A HIDDEN GEM OF OUR TOWN.
THE FACT THAT MORE PEOPLE AREN'T THERE ALL THE TIME.
I LIKE JUST WALKING AROUND THE PROPERTY.
AND BECAUSE IT'S SO FAR DOWN JORDAN ROAD, IT IS EVEN WITH, 'CAUSE THERE ARE SITES, THERE'S ACTUALLY A SIGN RIGHT OUTSIDE OF MY BUILDING ABOUT IT.
UM, BUT PEOPLE STILL HAVE A REALLY HARD TIME GETTING THERE.
I FEEL LIKE WE DON'T TALK ABOUT IT ENOUGH.
YOU KNOW, LET'S, LET'S, JORDAN ROAD WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED AS A MIXED USE COMMERCIAL TRANSITION ZONE.
AND I FEEL LIKE IT'S KIND OF GOTTEN LEFT BEHIND WITH
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THAT CONNECTION TO THE MUSEUM.ANY, AND THE, THERE'S A TRAILHEAD UP THERE TOO.
WELL, THANK YOU FOR THAT INSIGHTS.
UM, SO WHAT KEEPS YOU GOING BACK TO UPTOWN? I KNOW THIS MAY JUST BE PART OF THE FAVORITE THINGS, BUT ANY, ANY ANSWERS TO THAT? ANY INSIGHT WHAT? UM, I DON'T GO TO UPTOWN UNLESS VISITORS ARE IN TOWN.
WHENEVER FAMILY OR ANYBODY VISITS, THAT'S THE FIRST PLACE WE GO IS WE TAKE 'EM TO UPTOWN.
THEN I DON'T GO TO UPTOWN UNTIL SOMEONE ELSE COMES AND VISITS
BUT IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SHOPPING, THERE'S EATING, THERE'S VIEWS.
UM, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S JUST A VERY FUN PLACE.
UH, EVEN WITH GRAND GRANDSONS, UM, THEY CAN ENJOY THE EXPERIENCE TOO.
AND SO WE, WHERE DO WE WANT TO GO? UPTOWN IS ALWAYS ON THE LIST.
I WOULD KIND OF TOGGLE BACK TO THE ART AGAIN WHEN I DO DRIVE THROUGH UPTOWN AND YEAH.
AS A LOCAL I MOSTLY AVOID IT TOO.
BUT AGAIN, THE ART CREATES A PAUSE FOR PEOPLE.
AND WHEN YOU'RE DRIVING THROUGH, YOU CAN SEE PEOPLE ACTUALLY PAUSED AT THE SIGNS OR AT THE ART INSTALLATIONS.
AND I THINK THAT MAKES IT UNIQUE SO PEOPLE PAUSE AND THEN THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO SORT OF GO IN AND OUT OF SHOPS.
UM, SO YEAH, IT'S, IT'S NOT, IT, I WOULD SAY UPTOWN ISN'T JUST A PASS THROUGH, IT'S ACTUALLY BECOMING AN EXPERIENCE.
AND I THINK THE MORE, YOU KNOW, WALKABILITY THAT WE CREATE, THE BETTER IT'LL GET WAY FINDING AND SIGNAGE.
IS MY MICROPHONE ON, UM, BUT I JUST WANNA ALSO MENTION THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT UPTOWN AND 1 79 CORRIDOR.
SO IF YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ABOUT SOUTH OF THE Y TWO, WE'D LOVE TO HEAR THOSE.
WELL, THERE'S ART IN THOSE ROUNDABOUTS NOW THAT'S NEWER.
UM, I WOULD SAY WHEN, WHEN WE HAVE FRIENDS AND FAMILY VISIT, WE GO TO UPTOWN, BUT WE ALSO GO TO, PUMPHOUSE IS OUR FAVORITE BREAKFAST PLACE, COFFEE PLACE WE ALWAYS HIT TO MM-HMM
UH, WE WALK THROUGH, WE LOOK AT THE ART, THE BUILDINGS AND THE TREES ARE JUST, UH, A TREAT.
UM, AND I THINK THAT THAT IS ALL IN THAT, YOU KNOW, I, I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED THAT BECAUSE WHEN I TALK ABOUT JUST GOING UPTOWN, IT'S ALWAYS TO LOCKA PAK AND EVEN THE GIANT ANGEL WINGS UP BY HUDSON'S NOW, UM, HAS BECOME A PLACE WHERE OUR FAMILY ALL GOES AND THEY ALL SPREAD THEIR ARMS OUT AND GET A BIG PICTURE IN FRONT OF THE ANGEL MM-HMM
AND SO THOSE KIND OF THINGS, UH, THAT'S ALL KIND OF A DAY DOING ALL OF THAT.
UH, DOES THIS GO ALL THE WAY TO ARABELLA? WHERE DOES THIS END CORRECT.
THE OTHER SIDE OF ARABELLA? YEP.
UM, THE SIDEWALK GETS A LOT NARROWER UP THERE, DOESN'T IT? IT SHRINKS FROM 10 FOOT PAST WHAT? IT'S NOT CREEK SIDE.
WHAT IS THAT BUILDING? THE COMPLEX CALLED WITH AVELINA? HILLSIDE.
UM, I'M PRETTY, I'M LIKE, NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE THE SIDEWALKS SHRINKS TO FIVE FEET POST HILLSIDE.
UM, SIDE SIDE, I'M GONNA, IT'S GONNA GET CHECKED.
IT'S NOT THAT I CARE ABOUT SIDEWALKS AT ALL.
UM, SO IF WE'RE GONNA INCLUDE THEM, I DO FEEL LIKE THE ARABELLA MOLE THAT END, OH, THEN THERE'S A COFFEE SHOP, RIGHT.
THAT RIGHT BEFORE THE ROUNDABOUT.
I DON'T WANNA FORGET THEM BECAUSE IT'S VERY EASY TO STOP THINKING ABOUT THIS CORRIDOR AT HILLSIDE BECAUSE IT IS JUST SUCH A BEHEMOTH OF A DEVELOPMENT.
UM, AND IF WE WANT PEOPLE TO WALK, WHICH I'M ASSUMING IS PART OF THIS PLAN, THEN WE WANNA MAKE IT SO THOSE PLACES ARE MORE EASILY CONNECTED.
AND HOW DO WE CREATE THOSE ATTRACTIONS WITH ART AND OTHER THINGS MM-HMM
TO GET PEOPLE WALKING FROM ONE PLACE TO THE OTHER.
UM, SOMETHING THAT I'VE NOTICED TOO IS I E-BIKE A LOT AND I'VE E-BIKE ALL AROUND HERE AND IT FEELS RELATIVELY SAFE.
LIKE, IT'S NICE THAT I CAN HOP ON A SIDEWALK IF I NEED TO, IF, 'CAUSE THERE'S PARTS THAT I KNOW THE ROADS THAT MAYBE GET MORE NARROW OR JUST MORE CONGESTED.
UM, BUT I HAVE LIKED THERE I WAS, I'M LOOKING AT A MAP TOO, DO I KNOW.
AND I ACTUALLY DO SPEND A LOT OF TIME, UM, NOT A LOT OF TIME, BUT AGAIN, WHEN SOMEBODY COMES IN TOWN OR IF THERE'S A SPECIFIC SHOP, I DO SPEND MORE TIME NOT TO LOCK A POCKET, BUT LIKE GARLAND'S, THERE'S LIKE A LITTLE SHOPPING.
THERE'S A FEW SHOPS THAT I GO TO OVER THERE.
BUT, UM, I DO REALLY ENJOY THE ART.
THE ROUNDABOUTS ARE KINDA ANNOYING STILL, BUT THEY, THE GOING AROUND THE ART IS REALLY NICE ACTUALLY.
BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S, AGAIN, WE KINDA, AS A LOCAL, I TRY TO AVOID THAT OR JUST CHECK WHAT TIME OF DAY MM-HMM
I'VE SEEN A LOT MORE PEOPLE ON BIKES THERE AND A LOT MORE E-BIKES.
I'M SURE IT'S TOUR COMPANIES, BUT, SO IT'S GOOD.
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OUT THERE TOO.UH, WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES? I'D, I'D LIKE TO PIGGYBACK ON, UH, THE ROUNDABOUTS AND ART.
UM, THIS, THIS IS NOT WHAT KEEPS ME GOING BACK, BUT MY WIFE AND I HAVE COMMENTED HOW YOU'VE GOT THESE BEAUTIFUL ART PIECES AND HOW MANY SIGNS THERE ARE AT THE ROUNDABOUT.
AND I WONDER IF PEOPLE ARE SMART ENOUGH TO GO RIGHT.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOT A LITTLE SYMBOL AND GO AROUND THE CIRCLE AND IT'S GOT A SIGN AND THEN A SIGN HERE, AND THEN A SIGN.
I BET I COUNTED ON THE SNUBBY HILL ROUNDABOUT NINE SIGNS.
IT SEEMS THAT WE HAVE THIS BEAUTIFUL ART.
AND THEN WHEN I'M COMING DOWN, THERE'S A BIG SIGN IN FRONT OF IT.
AND, AND, AND EVERY POINT OF A DECISION, THERE'S MORE SIGNS.
AND, UH, I KNOW, I KNOW TOURISTS ARE REALLY STUPID WHEN IT COMES TO ROUNDABOUTS.
'CAUSE WE'VE ALL HONKED AT THEM WHEN THEY SIT IN THE MIDDLE AND GO, NO, YOU GO.
UM, BUT WE'VE GOT BEAUTIFUL ROUNDABOUTS AND THERE'S JUST A OVERLOAD OF SIGNAGE.
WELL, SADLY, WE HAVE TO DESIGN FOR THE LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR IN ALL AREAS, YOU KNOW? YES.
HALF THE PEOPLE ARE BELOW AVERAGE.
IT'S YEAH, THE ART OF COMMON SENSE.
I ACTUALLY SAW SOMEBODY, A FAMILY IN THEIR CAR UP ON THE CONCRETE PART GOING AROUND AND THEY COULDN'T GET BACK OFF BECAUSE TRAFFIC WAS GOING, GOD HELP US
SO THAT THE SIGNAGE IS WORKING, BUT ALL RIGHT.
ALL RIGHT, CHRISTIAN, WHAT'S NEXT? SO, WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES OR ISSUES AT THE UPTOWN AND STATE ROUTE? 1 7 9 CORRIDOR? FOR ME, PEOPLE NOT KNOWING HOW TO USE ROUNDABOUTS.
I GO TO CHURCH, UM, JUST OFF OF BREWER ROAD AND THEN COMING BACK OUT.
LUCKILY I GET TO GO LEFT AND GO TO WEST SEDONA, BUT I LIKE, HAVE TO PUT MY HAND OUT IN MY CAR AND NUDGE MYSELF OUT BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW HOW TO WOR OUT AND ABOUT WORKS.
SO I WAS LIKE, AS MUCH AS I DON'T WANT MORE SIGNAGE, I WAS LIKE, I WOULD LIKE, YOU KNOW, LIKE A FUNNY SIGN THAT'S LIKE, YOU STOP HERE, GO NOW.
YOU KNOW, LIKE HOW TO TEACH PEOPLE TO GO AROUND THE ROUNDABOUTS SO THEY CAN BE A LITTLE BIT MORE EFFICIENT OR JUST NOT BLOCK.
'CAUSE THEN I SEEM VERY AGGRESSIVE, BUT I'M LIKE, OTHERWISE I'M GONNA BE THERE FOR 15, 20 MINUTES.
SO SOMEBODY'S NICE ENOUGH TO LET ME THROUGH.
TRAFFIC, CONGESTION, BOTTLENECKS, UM, THE IMPACT OF ROUNDABOUTS.
I MEAN, ONE OF THE CONCERNS I HAVE IS, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THAT ROUNDABOUT DOWN BREWER GONNA DO TO THE HISTORIC HEART STORE? MM-HMM
I MEAN, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, A HISTORIC LANDMARK.
IT'S REALLY SOMETHING SPECIAL.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN TO THAT WHEN WE PUT IN THAT ROUNDABOUT, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, OUR FUNCTIONALITY DOESN'T OVERSHADOW THE CHARACTER OF OUR TOWN.
YOU KNOW, IT'S ALMOST A NICE WALK FROM THE BREWER ROAD PARK TO FREEFORM.
YOU GOTTA DEAL WITH A BIG PARKING LOT.
I'VE DONE THIS WALK MORE THAN ONCE.
THEN YOU GOTTA WALK THROUGH, YOU EITHER GOTTA WALK ON THE ROAD, WHICH I WON'T DO THERE, OR YOU GOTTA WALK, UH, WALK THROUGH THE PARKING LOT AT LOS ADOS.
IT'S ALMOST A REALLY NICE WALK, BUT FREEFORM IS WORTH WALKING TO.
WHAT IS FREEFORM? THE QUESTION IS, IS DO YOU GUYS USE THE UNDERPASS? UH, YEAH.
I LIVED IN BOULDER FOR A DECADE.
THERE WAS A, IT WAS AN UNDERPASS EVERY QUARTER MILE IN BOULDER.
UM, AND SO I, FOR ME, THE, THE HURDLES ARE GETTING PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR CAR, MOTIVATING THEM TO STAY OUT OF THEIR CAR, GETTING THEM TO ENGAGE WITH THE BUSINESSES THAT EXIST AND NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, STOP IN ONE, GET BACK IN THE CAR, GO TO A TRAILHEAD.
GETTING THEM TO SPEND TIME IN THIS PLACE.
IT'S GOOD FOR OUR COMMUNITY, IT'S GOOD FOR OUR BUSINESSES, BUT IF IT'S AN UNCOMFORTABLE PLACE TO PARK IN, UNCOMFORTABLE PLACE TO WALK, AN UNCOMFORTABLE PLACE TO LIKE ALL THE THINGS WHEN IT'S HOT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE JUST NOT GONNA STAY.
DO YOU FIND THAT PEOPLE PARK JUST AT, TO LOCK A P TO SHOP SHOP TO LOCK A P AND THEN GET BACK IN THEIR CAR AND DRIVE TO UPTOWN? TO GO AROUND UPTOWN? OR DO PEOPLE ACTUALLY WALK BETWEEN THE TWO AND OR DO WE HAVE A SHUTTLE THAT TAKES FROM ONE PLACE TO THE OTHER? WE COULD PROBABLY TALK TO WENDY AT, TO LOCK A POCK.
I THINK SHE A PRETTY CLOSE EYE ON HER PARKING LOT.
[00:30:01]
QUESTION THAT WE CAN MM-HMMADD TO THE LIST OF THINGS THAT WE, I'M JUST, I'M JUST CURIOUS.
I DON'T THINK WE NECESSARILY KNOW MM-HMM
UM, FROM AN URBAN DESIGN PERSPECTIVE, THERE'S ALMOST A PHYSICAL BREAK MM-HMM
BETWEEN WHAT PEOPLE CONSIDER TO BE UPTOWN AND THEN THE REMAINDER OF THE CORRIDOR GOING DOWN TO AL AND, UH, AND THEN ALMOST ANOTHER PHYSICAL BREAK GOING UP TO ARABELLA.
SO IT'S ALMOST THREE DISTINCT AREAS MM-HMM
UM, THAT, THAT LEND THEMSELVES TO NATURALLY NOT WANT TO CONNECT TO THE NEXT ONE.
SO THAT'S ONE OF THOSE URBAN DESIGN CHALLENGES IS HOW DO YOU MAKE THE CONNECTIONS MM-HMM
IN A COMFORTABLE ENOUGH WAY THAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO, UH, TO MAKE THAT LEAP AND KEEP WALKING.
I WAS TALKING TO ONE OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS AND, UH, UPTOWN TODAY, UM, AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, UM, THE DIFFERENT TECHNIQUES YOU CAN USE TO KEEP PEOPLE INTERESTED IN WALKING.
BECAUSE ONCE THEY START, AS LONG AS IT'S A FUN TRIP, THEY'RE JUST GONNA KEEP GOING.
RIGHT? BECAUSE YOU CAN ALWAYS TAKE A SHUTTLE AND COME BACK.
SO IT'S, UH, SO JUST GETTING PEOPLE COMFORTABLE WITH THE IDEA THAT NO, WE WANT YOU TO WALK, WALK ALL DAY,
AND, UH, THE MORE YOU WALK, THE MORE YOU SHOP.
AND SO MAKING IT COMFORTABLE FOR PEOPLE TO MAKE THOSE CONNECTIONS IS GONNA BE IMPORTANT.
AND I WOULD ARGUE THAT RIGHT NOW YOU'VE GOT THREE DISTINCT PLACES MM-HMM
THAT DON'T REALLY TALK TO EACH OTHER THE WAY THEY COULD.
AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE WALK FROM THAT COFFEE SHOP THAT'S NEXT TO ARABELLA, THAT I DON'T KNOW THE NAME OF BLACK POTION.
I DON'T THINK IT'S EXISTS TO THE MUSEUM.
THAT IS A, THAT IS A TO ME GROUP, I GET WHY YOU WANT TO GROUP THESE THINGS TOGETHER.
I GET WHY THIS HAPPENED, BUT TO ME THAT IS A LONG GEOGRAPHICAL AREA TO TRY TO MIX INTO ONE CFA PLAN.
DO I THINK IT NEEDED TO BE THREE? NO, BUT I THINK THERE'S A BIG HURDLE CONNECTING THAT FAR DOWN.
TO ME, THE MUSEUM IS LIKE THE, IT'S PROBABLY PARALLEL TO THE TOP OF UPTOWN.
SO LIKE, THE EQUIVALENT, THE SHOP THAT'S UP ON THE, I SHOULD KNOW THE NAMES, THE TRAPPERS, JUST LIKE THE SHOP THAT LIKE SELLS THE BONES AND THE STUFF.
IT'S TRAPPERS OR, YEAH, THAT'S THE ONE WE ALWAYS GO TO.
I REALLY, THAT HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE I WAS A KID.
I REALLY SHOULD NAME THAT ONE.
IT'S PROBABLY PRETTY, IT'S PROBABLY PRETTY CLOSE TO PARALLEL ON TO THE MUSEUM, BUT THAT, THAT HALL CAR, EVEN IN A LIKE, CAR DURING TRAFFIC, BOTH OF THOSE THINGS IS, IT'S A LONG, IT'S SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND.
THIS IS A, NOT GEOGRAPHICALLY BIG CFA, BUT LIKE IN REALITY IT FEELS LIKE A LONG WAYS.
AND I THINK PART OF, OF WHAT THIS, AND I ACTUALLY LIKE THEM ALL TOGETHER, BECAUSE TO ME, A, A GOOD DISTRICT IS A MIX OF EXPERIENCES, IF YOU WILL.
AND SO THE JORDAN ROAD AREA DESERVES ITS OWN EXPERIENCE.
AND SO THE SAME THING WITH EACH ONE OF THEM, BUT HOW THEY CONNECT AND TALK TO EACH OTHER AND ALL OF IT TOGETHER TELLS A STORY.
IS, IS PRETTY CRITICAL, I THINK, TO SEDONA PROPER.
SO FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, I WOULD SAY, YEAH, I REALLY, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.
UM, BUT IT'S A FUN DESIGN CHALLENGE, BEING ABLE TO SAY, HOW DO WE GET PEOPLE, HOW DO WE GET PEOPLE TO THE MUSEUM, FOR EXAMPLE? HOW DO WE DO THAT BY BIKE? HOW DO WE DO THAT WALKING? HOW DO WE DO THAT CASUALLY WALKING, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT SOMEBODY SAYING, NEVERMIND, I'LL GET IN MY CAR.
AND SO HOW DO WE MAKE THAT DISTANCE? DO I THINK THEY'RE GONNA GO FROM THE MUSEUM TO ARABELLA? PROBABLY NOT.
UM, BUT IF WE CAN GET THEM TO START AT ONE SPOT AND, AND PARK ONLY ONE TIME, OR TAKE A SHUTTLE TO GET TO THE NEXT LOCATIONS, ET CETERA, THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE DESIGN CHALLENGES ARE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE WANT THEM TO EXPERIENCE ALL OF THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO OFFER.
UM, BUT I THINK IT'S THAT DYNAMIC CHARACTER OF EACH OF THOSE EXPERIENCES THAT GIVES YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THE FULL STORY.
'CAUSE YOU KNOW, PEOPLE COME HERE FOR THE VIEWS, BUT WHAT THEY REMEMBER IS HOW THEY FELT.
SO IT'S NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, LIKE, I'M GONNA GO GET A TCHOTCHKE IN UPTOWN.
AND I THINK THAT WE CAN REALLY ENHANCE THAT AS A PART OF THIS CORRIDOR.
JUST, JUST A THOUGHT I WAS HAVING TO, UM, I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT PLACES I'VE TRAVELED.
SO I THINK LIKE ROME, FLORENCE, UM, AND I HAVE FOUR SMALL KIDS AND WE DID LIKE 20 MILES A DAY THERE.
AND I WAS LIKE, WHAT DID DRIVE US? 'CAUSE WE DIDN'T TAKE CARS, WE WALKED EVERY SINGLE PLACE.
IT WAS LIKE, IT WAS THE EXPERIENCE.
SO FOR US, THE THEME WAS MY HUSBAND WANTED TO GO FIND BERNINI STATUES AND EVERY, ALL OF HIS ART.
SO HE LITERALLY DRAGGED US FROM LIKE ALL ENDS JUST TO FIND A SPECIFIC STATUE.
SO IT WAS LIKE, IT IS AN EXPERIENCE WHERE I WAS LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, IN AMERICA, I WOULD NOT WALK THAT FAR.
[00:35:01]
A MORE RURAL AREA, BUT LIKE IN ROMA'S, LIKE, OF COURSE I WILL WALK 14 MILES BACK AND, YOU KNOW, OR SO I'M LIKE, IT'S TRUE.AND IT NEEDS TO BE AN EXPERIENCE WHERE I AGREE TOO, WHERE IT DOES FEEL VERY DISCONNECTED.
WHERE I PROBABLY WOULDN'T GO TO SOMETHING EACH IN ONE OF THOSE SECTIONS IN A DAY.
YOU KNOW, IF I WAS VISITING, IT'D PROBABLY BE LIKE ONE, ONE A DAY, MAYBE TWO, YOU KNOW? BUT AGAIN, I PROBABLY WOULD DRIVE, BUT I WAS LIKE, HOW DOES ROME DO IT? YOU KNOW? HOW DO THEY FORCE ALL THEIR TOURISTS TO WALK AND WE'RE HAPPY TO WALK THERE? YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? YEAH.
IT'S, IT'S INTERESTING YOU SAY IT THAT WAY BECAUSE YOU REALLY DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE WHEN YOU'RE DOING IT.
BECAUSE THE EXPERIENCE ITSELF KEEPS YOU WALKING.
AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THE AVERAGE PEDESTRIAN WALKS AT 3.5 MILES AN HOUR OR SLIGHTLY LESS DEPENDING ON, YOU KNOW, A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
SO WHEN WE DESIGN AND, AND WE AS STAFF HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO WALK UPTOWN AND LOOK AT ALL OF THESE THINGS, YOU KNOW, IT'S, YOU HAVE TO DESIGN IN A WAY THAT KEEPS IT INTERESTING AT THREE AND A HALF MILES AN HOUR.
YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE DESIGNING FOR A CAR, YOU'RE DESIGNING FOR A MINIMUM OF 35 MILES AN HOUR.
IT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE.
UM, WHEN, WHEN YOU'RE, WHEN YOU'RE WALKING AT THREE AND A HALF MILES AN HOUR, THEN YOU WANT TO WINDOW SHOP, YOU WANT TO SEE ART, YOU WANT TO EXPERIENCE THE ART GELATO.
WELL, AND WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THAT IS PEOPLE WILL STOP FIRST AT A MENU BECAUSE THEY SEE THE OUTSIDE MENU.
SO YOU CAN DO THAT WHEN YOU'RE WALKING.
YOU DON'T GET TO SEE THAT AT 35 MILES AN HOUR.
SO AGAIN, IT'S TRYING TO CREATE THE SPACES IN A WAY THAT IS INVITING FOR THE PEOPLE THAT YOU WANT TO BE THERE FOR THE PEDESTRIANS, FOR THE CYCLISTS, ET CETERA.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, AS ALI WAS SAYING, IT'S IN THE SIDEWALKS.
YOU KNOW, EVEN JUST HAVING THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT, BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST HAVING IT, IT'S HAVING IT IN A WAY THAT'S INTERESTING AND SAFE, COMFORTABLE.
IT'S ALL OF THOSE OTHER FEATURES BECAUSE YOU'RE ALWAYS COMPETING WITH AIR CONDITIONING AND CAR AND RADIOS.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS GONNA BE BETTER FOR ME? IS IT GONNA BE EASIER FOR ME TO JUMP IN THE CAR, PUT ON THE AIR CONDITIONING AND DRIVE TO POINT B? UM, OR AM I JUST GONNA MISS SO MUCH BY DOING THAT? UM, SO WE'VE GOTTA BE ABLE TO THINK OF ALL OF THOSE FEATURES.
THAT'S WHY I'D LIKE TO FORMALIZE ART AS A CORE COMPONENT OF THIS CORRIDOR.
YOU KNOW, SO THAT IT'S, UM, IT'S LIKE A GUIDING PRINCIPLE AS OPPOSED TO AN ADD-ON.
'CAUSE IF WE COULD REALLY CREATE A BEAUTIFUL EXPERIENCE THAT LEADS PEOPLE TO WANDER AND LEARN ABOUT THE FORMATIONS ART IN ALL FORMS, WHETHER IT'S PEOPLE DANCING, YOU KNOW, ALL THE FORMS. I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT WE ARE, WE'RE SEDONA.
SO BOOTH, YOU KNOW, LIKE I WAS JUST ENVISIONING WALKING UP AND MAYBE THERE'S LIKE TABLE BOOTHS, YOU KNOW, KEEPING PEOPLE SHOPPING AND GOING UP.
'CAUSE I WILL STOP FOR ANY KIND OF TABLE BOOTH AND WALK UNTIL IT ENDS AND THEN COME BACK.
YOU KNOW? THAT'S KIND OF HOW, I DON'T KNOW, I JUST THINK IT'S MORE FUN WHEN YOU'RE OUTSIDE AND GOING UP AND DOWN.
LIKE IN OUT, NOT NECESSARILY US SHOPS.
AND THEN THAT LEADS YOU TO THE OTHER SHOPS.
LIKE I'M THINKING LIKE, AGAIN, ITALY AND DIFFERENT THINGS.
LIKE THERE'S ALWAYS TABLE VENDORS, CHESS, YOU KNOW, SHOPS, DRINKS, AND THEN ART.
THAT'S EVERYWHERE THAT IT'S ART.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW HOW LIKE IN NATIONAL PARKS, THEY HAVE LIKE THE RANGER, LITTLE RANGER PROGRAM WHERE LIKE IF YOU GO SEE CERTAIN THINGS, YOU GET LIKE A STAMP.
IT'S SORT OF LIKE A SCAVENGER HUNT.
I MEAN, YOU COULD DO THAT THROUGH THE ARTS AND SHOPS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
CAN I PROPOSE A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT THAT I KNOW IS UNREALISTIC?
THE CITY OF SONSONA ONLY OWNS FROM LIKE THE TOP OF THE ROUNDABOUT TO O AND BI THINK.
UH, AND WHEN IT COMES TO A CORRIDOR OF 89 A UH, I THINK ONE OF THE COOLEST EXPERIENCES OF, UH, SHOPPING DISTRICTS LIKE THIS IS 16TH STREET IN BOULDER OR SIXTH STREET, MAYBE 16TH IN DENVER.
THEY'RE WALK, THEY'RE WALKABLE MALL.
THEY HAVE CONVERTED EIGHT BLOCKS OF STREET, PLUS OR MINUS.
IT'S BEEN 15 YEARS SINCE I LIVED THERE TO NO CARS.
SO YOU HAVE STREET PERFORMERS, YOU HAVE VENDORS, YOU HAVE CARTS.
AND THAT'S A, THAT'S PROBABLY A BIG PART OF YOUR EUROPE EXPERIENCE IS YOU WERE WALKING PLACES WHERE THERE WEREN'T CARS MM-HMM
BUT I WAS THINKING SWITZERLAND HAS A WHOLE CITY WE WENT TO SPECIFICALLY.
THE ONLY ONE THAT WAS WAS TAKE YOU TO YOUR, YOUR LUGGAGE AND THAT WAS IT.
SO IT WAS MORE CATTLE, BUT, YOU KNOW, BUT, BUT I AGREE.
THE ARTS, THIS THOUGHT EXPERIMENT IS WE DO ACTUALLY OWN THIS ROAD.
WE DO HAVE EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO THINK ABOUT THIS AS WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE AS A WALKING MALL? DO I THINK THAT'S REALISTIC? NO.
THAT'S A MAJOR CORRIDOR BETWEEN FLAGSTAFF AND THE REST OF THE VALLEY.
BUT IT'S THE ONLY PLACE IN SEDONA.
WE ACTUALLY HAVE CONTROL OF THE ROADWAY.
[00:40:01]
AND I THINK IF WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT IN THE CFA, WE'RE MISSING A HUGE COMPONENT.'CAUSE WE DON'T GET TO TALK ABOUT THAT ANYWHERE ELSE CURRENTLY.
WHAT, WHAT CAN WE DO TO ENHANCE THAT EXPERIENCE? WHAT WOULD THAT DO FOR UPTOWN? WHAT WOULD THAT DO FOR PEOPLE STAYING IN THEIR CARS? WHAT WOULD THAT DO FOR SLOWING PEOPLE DOWN? I MEAN, YOU JUST MADE THE ARGUMENT FOR LIKE, YOU'RE NOT GONNA SEE ANYTHING AT 35.
NOT ONLY THAT, BUT LIKE, PEOPLE SPEED, RIGHT? SO IT'S LIKE 35 PLUS.
SO LIKE WHAT, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE SLOW PEOPLE DOWN, YOU KNOW? MM-HMM
SO I WOULD LIKE US TO SEE THE IDEA OF PERHAPS OWNING MORE ROADS.
UH, THE IDEA THAT WE DON'T OWN THE ROAD IN FRONT OF OCK, WHICH IS JUST A TREASURE, UM, UH, IS CREATED SOME KIND OF ISSUES THAT WE HAVE.
UM, WE SPEND MONEY ON A LOT OF THINGS.
IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS ONE THAT SHOULD BE, UH, PART OF THE FOCUS.
THAT WAS MY NUMBER ONE FOR THE NEXT QUESTION,
LET'S GET IT BACK ON THE BALLOT.
I MEAN, SERIOUSLY, EVERYBODY COMPLAINS ABOUT IT AND IT'S LIKE WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
I MEAN, WE BUILT THAT UNDERPASS AND PEOPLE STILL WALK ACROSS.
WHY IS THAT? BECAUSE WE CAN'T CLOSE THE CROSSWALK.
RIGHT? SO, AND YOU KNOW WHAT, WHEN I MOVED HERE, THE TRAFFIC IN THE CANYON WOULD BACK UP PAST DAIRY QUEEN.
WHEN YOU WERE COMING IN FROM FLAGSTAFF.
UM, AND GUESS WHAT? YOU GUYS FIXED IT.
LIKE WITH SOME MAGIC HOODOO O AND B TWO LANE SOUTH BUSINESS.
I MEAN, YOU COMMUTE LIKE, LIKE IT WOULD, IT WOULD BACK UP TO DAIRY QUEEN ON THE REGULAR WHEN I FIRST MOVED BACK IN 2015.
BUT THINK OF THE FREEDOM WE WOULD HAVE TO SOLVE OUR OWN PROBLEMS. WHAT I'M SAYING, IF WE OWNED IT, DID THEY DID.
I MEAN, THEY SOLVED THE PROBLEM WITH THE PART THEY OWNED.
SO SHOULD WE MOVE ON TO QUESTION NUMBER FOUR? YES.
SO IF YOU COULD MAKE ONE CHANGE IMPROVEMENT TO THE UPTOWN AND STATE ROUTE 1 79 CORRIDOR, WHAT WOULD IT BE? OKAY.
RIGHT? I KNOW WHAT I WAS SAYING.
WHY NOT THROW IT OUT
SO THAT, I REALLY THINK THAT WE SHOULD OWN THE ROAD WITHIN CITY LIMITS SO THAT WE CAN REALLY HAVE A WALKABLE CITY AND BIKE LANES AND ALL OF THE THINGS THAT WE WANT.
WE CAN IMPROVE THE LANDSCAPING WITHIN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.
I'D REALLY LIKE TO SEE THE CORRIDOR BE A TREE CITY, AN OFFICIAL TREE CITY, BECAUSE IF WE HAD TREES WE COULD HAVE SHADING MM-HMM
AND THERE ARE TREES THAT GROW IN ARIZONA THAT COULD PREVENT, YOU KNOW, OR PROVIDE SHADING ALONG THE WALKWAYS.
AND, UM, I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT REALLY BEAUTIFUL ARTISTIC DIVIDER THAT'S AN UPTOWN CONTINUE DOWN TOWARDS AK AS OPPOSED TO THAT AWFUL CHAIN LINK WEIRD SITUATION WE'VE GOT NOW.
UM, I THINK THAT WOULD CREATE SOME CONTINUITY, WHICH WOULD BE BEAUTIFUL.
I HAD WROTE DOWN COHESIVE ARTISTIC SIGNAGE AND WAY FINDING, USING AN INTEGRATING LOCAL ARTIST INTO THE FUTURE INFRASTRUCTURE AND HOW WE'RE BUILDING THAT CORRIDOR.
UM, CONTINUE OUR SHUTTLE EVOLUTION SO THAT IT GET PEOPLE OUTTA THEIR CARS.
UM, GREEN STREETS, BICYCLE LANES.
I HAVE A LOT OF IDEAS MM-HMM
OF THINGS THAT WE COULD CHANGE.
DO I NEED TO SAY SIDEWALKS AGAIN,
UM, ONE THING I, AND I THINK EVERY, ALL THE PROFESSIONALS IN THE ROOM WILL KNOW THIS.
THE IDEA, LIKE WHEN YOU BUILD A BIGGER ROAD, THERE ARE MORE CARS.
UH, I ACTUALLY, UNTIL A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, DIDN'T KNOW THAT WORKED FOR ALL MODALITIES.
IT WORKED FOR BIKES AND, AND WALKERS, BUT THE, THE STEPS PATH JUST WENT PAST MY HOUSE AND THEY COMPLETED AND HOLY MOLY, WALKERS LIKE INSTANT.
I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY NUMBER OF THAT MANY.
I'VE LIVED ON THE DRY CREEK CORRIDOR MY ENTIRE LIFE, MINUS THE 10 YEARS I WAS GONE.
NEVER SEEN THAT MANY PEOPLE WALKING UP AND DOWN DRY CREEK INSTANT.
SO I'M KNOCKING OVER THE SIDEWALK THING.
I THOUGHT IT JUST WORKED FOR CARS.
I MEAN, OUR BIKE LANES NOW INCLUDE LIKE THE GUTTER EDGE, WHICH IS REALLY, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN HOW MUCH DEBRIS IS IN THEM? YES, ALL THE TIME.
THE DEBRIS IN THE BIKE LANES ARE, THAT IS WHY I RIDE IN THE ROAD.
THEY'RE AWARE THAT I'M NOT GONNA JUST GO OVER EVERYTHING THAT'S IN THE ROAD.
UM, I THINK, UH, AN IMPROVEMENT WOULD BE WHAT DES MOINES DID WHEN I WAS LIVING THERE.
THERE WAS A VERY STRONG RESIDENTIAL COMMERCIAL DISTRICT, UH, AND THEY DID A MAJOR STREET SCAPE OF THAT WHOLE PLACE.
[00:45:01]
THEY TOOK OUT THE POWER POLES, BURIED IT ALL UNDERGROUND.THEY CREATED PLANTERS, THEY CREATED WIDE BIKE LANES.
THEY CREATED VERY WIDE SIDEWALKS.
AND THAT AREA IS SO BUSY WHEN WE GO BACK, IT'S JUST BUSTLING BECAUSE, UH, BECAUSE OF THE STREETSCAPE AND WHAT THEY DID.
AND I THINK SARAH, YOUR IDEA OF, OF CONNECT STARTING WHAT HAPPENED IN UPTOWN, UH, CREATING A UNIFYING DISTRICT, IF YOU WANT TO DO IT, YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALL AT ONCE AND TAKE IT ON.
I THINK THE CITY SHOULD FORGET THE $31 MILLION MAINTENANCE BUILDING AND PUT IT INTO STREETSCAPE IN THIS CFA AREA.
I THINK THE CITIZENS AND PEOPLE WOULD, UH, ENJOY THAT MUCH MORE THAN SPENDING MORE A A LOT OF MONEY ON PROJECTS THAT AREN'T SEEN MAYBE NEEDED, BUT THEY'RE FIXING THEIR TRUCKS SOMEWHERE RIGHT NOW, SO LET 'EM FIX IT A LITTLE LONGER.
AND UH, I THINK IF YOU TOOK THAT WHOLE STREET SCAPE AND WORKED ON IT, UH, IT WOULD JUST CREATE A VITAL AREA.
THE OTHER THING, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD CHANGE.
UM, AND IN THE SAME AREA IN DES MOINES, BECAUSE THEY DID OWN THE STREET, UH, THEY BUILT A, A FEATURE THAT SPANNED THE STREET AND ANNOUNCED YOU ARE NOW ENTERING THE, GIVE IT A NAME, GIVE THIS DISTRICT A NAME.
UH, YOU KNOW, DON'T CALL IT UPTOWN, DON'T CALL, LET'S COME UP WITH A NAME.
BUT, UH, UH, WELCOME TO THE HEART OF SEDONA.
AND PUT SOMETHING THAT SPANS A STREET BY ARABELLA.
AND, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE IN A DISTRICT AND YOU KNOW, IT GOES ALL THE WAY THROUGH UPTOWN TO THE LAST ROUNDABOUT.
AND MAYBE AT THAT ROUNDABOUT WHEN YOU COME DOWN THE CANYON, IT'S THE SAME THING.
WELCOME TO THE HEART OF SEDONA.
AND, AND USE SOME MONEY INSTEAD OF ALL THE STUFF.
I, I DO THAT BEFORE I DID MORE ROUNDABOUTS.
I DO THAT BEFORE I DID THE BREWER ROAD ROUNDABOUT AND THE ONE AT THE RANGER ROAD FORESTS ROAD.
THAT'S JUST GONNA SCREW UP LIFE FOREVER AND BE A LOT OF MONEY.
I TAKE ALL THOSE MONEY AND MAKE THAT STRIP AS BEST IT CAN BE.
AND THEN I THINK ORGANICALLY WEST SEDONA MIGHT START DOING THE SAME THING.
I MEAN, THERE'S SO MUCH OPPORTUNITY IF YOU HAVE THE WIDER SIDEWALKS, YOU COULD ALSO HAVE POCKET PARKS ALONG THE WAY FOR PEOPLE TO GATHER.
AND I MEAN, IT WOULD, THERE'S SO MUCH YOU COULD DO THAT'S AMAZING.
YOU COULD EVEN, YOU KNOW, DIRECT YOUR STORM WATER INTO LIKE, EDUCATIONAL BIOSWALES ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD.
NOW I'M GETTING TOO TECHNICAL, BUT, YOU KNOW, LET'S GET OUR ROAD BACK.
IT APPEARS I, WE CAN HARDLY MAINTAIN ANYTHING NOW.
I THINK, UH, IF WE TALK ABOUT DOING THESE THINGS, WHICH I BELIEVE WE SHOULD, UH, WE NEED TO PUT THE MONEY WHERE OUR MOUTH IS IN CASE ANY BOARD CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE LISTENING
WELL, I APPRECIATE YOUR, YOUR ANSWERS, YOUR INSIGHT, YOUR FEEDBACK.
UM, SO THAT, UH, STAFF, I, I DO HAVE, IF YOU'RE GONNA SHARE THIS INFORMATION AGAIN, UH, KELLY WAS SO HELPFUL IN GOING TO A PLAN THAT SHOWED WHAT THE COLORS MEANT.
THERE WAS NO LEGEND, UH, OF THE MAP.
YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT IS RED? WHAT IS PURPLE? JUST HAVING THAT ON YOUR GRAPHIC WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL FOR US TO DON'T REMEMBER ALL THE DETAIL OF THE PAST ONE.
BEFORE WE CLOSE THAT, I WANNA OPEN IT FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.
MY NAME IS TIM PERRY AND I LIVE IN UPTOWN SEDONA.
THIS WHOLE PROPOSAL FOR AN UPTOWN CFA PLAN NEEDS TO BE SCRAPPED ALONG WITH ALL OF THE CFA PLANS BECAUSE THE CFA PLANS ARE JUST ONE MORE LAYER OF REGULATION THAT PREVENTS US FROM BUILDING HOUSING AND REDEVELOPING EXISTING BUSINESS INFRASTRUCTURE.
IN FACT, IT'S KIND OF LUDICROUS THAT THE CITY IS CONDUCTING A CODE REVIEW PROCESS RIGHT NOW TO SINGLE OUT OBSTACLES TO DEVELOPMENT THE CODE, AND YET IS PROPOSING TO CREATE MORE OF THEM WITH ANOTHER CFA PLAN.
NOW THE ANSWER TO THAT MAY BE THAT THE COUNCIL HAS ASKED FOR THIS PLAN.
WELL THEN THE COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATION TO BE THE COUNCIL SHOULD BE TO TAKE THE WHOLE PLAN AND DROP IT IN OAK CREEK.
IF THERE IS A NEED FOR CERTAIN AESTHETIC OR COMMUNITY CHARACTER FEATURES, THOSE NEED TO BE GENERAL FOR SEDONA, NOT FOR THE ONE DISTRICT OF UPTOWN.
AND THEY SHOULD BE INCORPORATED CONCEPTUALLY INTO CODE AS A WHOLE RATHER
[00:50:01]
THAN TACKED ON.THE CFA PLANS ARE ALSO A BAD IDEA BECAUSE IN ADDITION TO PUTTING OBSTACLES IN THE WAY OF DEVELOPMENT, THEY ALSO TEND TO GET THE CITY IN TROUBLE.
THE PLANS AND THE PROBLEMS THEY CREATE ARE ONE OF THE REASONS SOME PEOPLE WILL BE VOTING NO ON HOME RULE.
AND THEN THERE'S ALSO THE TENDENCY OF CERTAIN OFFICIALS WITHIN THE CITY TO TRY TO USE THE CFA PLANS AS LEGAL JUSTIFICATIONS FOR THINGS THAT THE CITY LEGALLY ISN'T ALLOWED TO DO, WHICH KEEPS GETTING IT INVOLVED IN APPEALS AND LAWSUITS.
IF YOU WANT A CFA PLAN, THE ONLY CFA PLAN THAT'S WORTH HAVING WOULD BE THE ONE THAT WOULD RESTORE THINGS I WOULD SAY TO THE CONDITIONS YOU'D READ ABOUT.
IF YOU FLIP BACK TO THE 1975 EDITION OF THE RED ROCK S NEWS ON THE ARIZONA MEMORY PROJECT AND READ ABOUT THE BUILDING OF WAYSIDE CHAPEL, THEY BOUGHT A PIECE OF LAND AND THEY BUILT A BUILDING ON IT.
THERE WAS NO DEVELOPMENT REVIEW, THERE WAS NO PERMITTING PROCESS.
THERE WAS AN, THERE WERE NO INSPECTIONS.
THAT'S THE ONLY KIND OF CFA PLAN OR ANY DEVELOPMENT PLAN WE NEED IN THIS TOWN.
INDIVIDUAL COMMENTS, ONE UPTOWN IS ALREADY INCREDIBLY WALKABLE.
TWO, THERE ARE FAR TOO MANY SIGNS IN UPTOWN AND ALMOST ALL OF THEM NEED TO COME DOWN.
THREE, I PERSONALLY HAVE NEVER USED AND NEVER WILL USE THE UNDERPASS.
FINAL COMMENT, THE PROPOSAL I JUST HEARD FROM THE DAAS THAT THE CITY NEEDS TO BUY MORE ROADS IS THE SECOND MOST INSANE SUGGESTION I'VE YET HEARD IN THIS CITY AFTER THE CON CONCEPT THAT IT SHOULD DESTROY THE CULTURAL PARK.
VOTERS ALREADY VOTED THAT DOWN LAST DECADE, AND I'M PRETTY SURE THEY'LL VOTED DOWN AGAIN BY AN EVEN BIGGER MARGIN BECAUSE IN CASE YOU GUYS HAVEN'T NOTICED, PEOPLE IN THIS TOWN REALLY, REALLY DO NOT LIKE ALL THE EFFORTS THE CITY IS MAKING TO CONTROL THEIR MOVEMENTS.
AND ALL OF THIS LEFT WING NAZI CRAP IS GOING TO STOP.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS FOR THE PUBLIC PUBLIC COMMENT? YEAH, I'LL CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT.
BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSIONERS.
SO I WILL CLOSE AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE AND MOVE ON
[6. Presentation/discussion regarding the Pre-Approved Housing Plans Library. ]
TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SIX, PRESENTATION DISCUSSION REGARDING THE PRE-APPROVED HOUSING PLANS LIBRARY.YEAH, SO WHAT WE WANTED TO DO IS JUST GIVE YOU A BRIEF, UM, UPDATE ON THE, UM, ON THE PRE-APPROVED HOUSING PLAN PROCESS AND HOW WE'RE GOING THERE.
AND, UH, I THINK WE INCLUDED IN YOUR, UM, IN THE DOCUMENTATION A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT THE PROGRAM IS.
SO, UM, AS YOU MAY KNOW, UM, SENATE BILL 1529, I THINK IT WAS, UM, OR 92, 15 92 OR 1529 ANYWAY, UM, RESULTED IN REQUIREMENT THAT, UM, EVERY, UH, COMMUNITY THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF ARIZONA NEEDED TO DEVELOP A PRE-APPROVED HOUSING PLAN PROGRAM.
UM, THERE ARE TWO OPTIONS ON HOW THAT CAN HAPPEN.
UM, THE FIRST OPTION IS TO, UH, ACQUIRE A SET OF PLANS.
UM, AND WHEN I SAY A SET OF PLANS, THERE ARE SEVERAL CATEGORIES OF PLANS THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE IN PLACE, UM, IF WE FOLLOW OPTION.
AND, AND THOSE CATEGORIES ARE THE SAME IN BOTH OPTIONS.
UM, THE FIRST IS WE HAVE TO HAVE THREE SETS OF PLANS FOR ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS OF SPECIFIC SIZES.
UM, AND EACH OF THOSE HAVE TO HAVE THREE ELEVATIONS ATTACHED.
UM, SIMILARLY, UM, THREE DIFFERENT SIZES OF SINGLE FAMILY, UH, UNITS, UM, WITH THREE ELEVATIONS EACH.
AND, UM, THOSE ARE DUE BY JULY 1ST, 2026.
WE ARE REQUIRED TO DO THE EXACT SAME THING WITH DUPLEXES AND TRIPLEXES.
AGAIN, THREE DIFFERENT SIZES AND, UM, THREE DIFFERENT ELEVATIONS.
UM, THE SECOND OPTION IS NOT TO NECESSARILY ACQUIRE A SINGLE SET OF PLANS FOR EACH OF THESE, UM, BUT OPTION B ALLOWS US TO OPEN UP A LIBRARY WHERE, UM, ANY DESIGNER CAN SUBMIT TO ANY OF THE CATEGORIES.
UM, AND THEN WE WILL REVIEW THE PLANS AND, UM, AND IF THEY MEET OUR CODE REQUIREMENTS, WE PLACE THEM IN THE LIBRARY.
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AGAIN, SAME DIFFERENT CA OR THE SAME TYPES OF CATEGORIES HAVE TO BE IN PLACE.BUT OPTION B ALLOWS YOU TO CREATE A PROGRAM THAT ALLOWS DESIGNERS TO SUBMIT, GIVES YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO POTENTIALLY HAVE MORE OPTIONS.
THEN, UM, OPTION A, WE HAVE OPTED TO GO WITH OPTION B AND CREATE THE PRE-APPROVED HOUSING PLAN LIBRARY.
AND, UM, SO WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF DEVELOPING THAT LIBRARY NOW AND, UH, AND GETTING IT INTO PLACE.
WE ARE PROPOSING A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT MAKE, UM, OUR APPROACH JUST A LITTLE BIT UNIQUE.
UM, THE, UH, THE FIRST IS WE ARE REACHING OUT AND HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR COLLEAGUES THROUGHOUT THE VERDE VALLEY.
SO WE ARE IN CONVERSATIONS WITH COTTONWOOD CLARKDALE, UH, AND CAMP FERDI TO, UM, TO SEE IF WE CAN DO A VERDE VALLEY, UM, HOUSING LIBRARY THAT WOULD WORK FOR ANY OF THE COMMUNITIES.
SO ESSENTIALLY ANYTHING THAT IS DROPPED INTO THE LIBRARY WOULD, UM, ESSENTIALLY BE APPROVED BY ALL PARTIES AUTOMATICALLY.
SO, UM, SO WE'RE HAVING COORDINATION, UM, CONVERSATIONS WITH THOSE DIFFERENT GROUPS.
UM, WE'LL SEE HOW MANY, UH, JOIN, BUT IT SEEMS TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS GAINING SOME TRACTION.
UM, ALSO AT THE SAME TIME, UM, YOU MAY BE AWARE YAVAPAI COUNTY HAS THEIR HOME OF THE HOME OF YOUR OWN PROGRAM WHERE THEY HAD PREVIOUSLY CREATED A SERIES OF SINGLE FAMILY, UH, HOUSING PLANS.
UM, THEY ARE IN THE PROCESS OF AMENDING THOSE PLANS AND PRO AND IF THEY MOVE, IF, UH, THEY MOVE FORWARD, UM, WITH THEIR BUDGET TO HAVE THE RESOURCES TO DO SO, WOULD GO AHEAD AND DO, UH, SIMILAR PLANNING EXERCISES FOR, OR SIMILAR DESIGN EXERCISES FOR THE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES.
SO IT WOULD ESSENTIALLY EXPAND THE HOME OF YOUR OWN PROGRAM.
AND SO THAT WOULD BE A FREE OPTION.
THE WAY THE LIBRARY WOULD WORK IS, UM, IS THAT IF YOU FOUND SOMETHING IN THE LIBRARY THAT YOU WERE INTERESTED IN, UM, YOU COULD THEN, UM, REACH OUT TO THAT ARCHITECT.
YOU WOULD PAY A FEE TO THE ARCHITECT.
IT'S NOT THE ARCHITECT'S FULL FEE.
WE WOULD NEGOTIATE A REDUCED FEE SCHEDULE, UM, BECAUSE THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS IS TO CREATE AFFORDABILITY TO THE BEST OF WHAT THE STATE LAW IS TRYING TO GET TO.
UM, SO THE, UM, AND THEN BY DOING THAT, UH, YOU WOULD GET A SET OF CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS, UM, ESSENTIALLY THEN YOU JUST HAVE TO CREATE A SITE PLAN AND DO ALL THE SPECIFIC THINGS YOU NEED FOR WHICHEVER CITY YOU'RE INVOLVED IN.
UM, THEN YOU GET APPROVAL AND YOU GO, BECAUSE THE WHOLE DESIGN IS ALREADY APPROVED, ESSENTIALLY STAFF IS JUST APPROVING THE SITE PLAN.
SO IT ALLOWS THINGS TO MOVE AT A MUCH QUICKER PACE.
IT ALLOWS IT TO MOVE AT A MUCH MORE AFFORDABLE PACE AS IT RELATES TO THE FEES THAT YOU'RE PAYING, UM, FOR ARCHITECTURE AND FOR THE CITY.
WE'RE ALSO LOOKING INTO THE POSSIBILITY OF WAIVING THE VARIOUS FEES THAT WE WOULD CHARGE SO THAT THAT WOULD ALSO GIVE PEOPLE AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE IT EVEN MORE AFFORDABLE.
UM, SO THE IDEA IS THE LIBRARY WOULD ALLOW FOR THINGS TO MOVE QUICKER AND WOULD ALLOW FOR THINGS TO MOVE FORWARD AT A LITTLE BIT MORE OF AN AFFORDABLE RATE.
UM, THE OTHER THING WE ARE CONSIDERING AS PART OF THAT PRE-APPROVED HOUSING PLAN PROCESS IS A SERIES OF DESIGN COMPETITIONS.
AND WE'VE LOOKED AT THE DESIGN COMPETITIONS BECAUSE, UM, IT'S OUR INTENTION TO TRY TO PROMOTE HIGH QUALITY DESIGNS, UM, AS PART OF THE LIBRARY.
AND, UM, WITH THE, WITH OPEN SUBMISSION, WE DON'T NECESSARILY CONTROL AND WE DON'T WANT TO CONTROL, UM, THE TYPES OF DESIGNS THAT ARE SUBMITTED.
WE JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THEY CAN MEET THE CODE.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE WOULD LIKE TO PROMOTE THE IDEA OF BRINGING IN HIGH CALIBER, UM, QUALITY AFFORDABLE DESIGNS AND TO CHALLENGE ARCHITECTS, UM, TO SEE WHAT KIND OF CREATIVE DESIGNS THEY CAN COME UP WITH THAT WOULD WORK WITHIN THE, UM, THE CONSTRUCTS OF THE LIBRARY.
SO WE HAVE REQUESTED MONEY FROM CITY COUNCIL, UM, FOR EACH OF THOSE SIGNED COMPETITIONS.
AND THE, THE POINT OF THE MONEY WOULD BE THAT AWARD WINNERS WOULD THEN BE GIVEN A STIPEND THAT WOULD ALLOW THEM TO COMPLETE THEIR CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS.
SO WHEN THEY INITIALLY SUBMIT, THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY JUST SUBMITTING THE DESIGN, THE ELEVATION, THE DRAWINGS, ET CETERA, BUT NOT DOING FULL CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS.
AND THAT WOULD ALLOW, UM, FOR THE DESI, THE AWARD WINNERS TO GO AHEAD AND, AND COMPLETE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS.
UM, THE WAY THE LIBRARY, UM, AS YOU'RE PERUSING THE LIBRARY, YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THE GENERAL SITE PLAN THE WAY YOU WOULD, IF YOU WERE JUST SELECTING A SITE PLAN FROM A DEVELOPER, UM, OR A BUILDER, UM, THEN YOU WOULD CONTACT THE ARCHITECT AND THEY WOULD GIVE YOU THE FULL SET OF ARCHITECTURE PLANS.
SO ULTIMATELY, UM, WHAT YOU GET IS A FULL SET OF ARCHITECTURAL PLANS, JUST LIKE IF, IF YOU WERE PAYING THE
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FULL $50,000 OR WHATEVER YOU WOULD NORMALLY PAY FOR AN ARCHITECT.AND SO THAT'S THE IDEA BEHIND THE LIBRARY.
UM, WE'RE STILL IN PROCESS OF, OF DEVELOPING ALL THE THINGS.
UM, SO WE ARE COORDINATING AGAIN, ACTIVELY.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, WE'RE MEETING AGAIN NEXT WEEK WITH THE VERDE VALLEY COMMUNITIES, UM, TO CONTINUE OUR DIALOGUE THERE.
UM, AND, UH, YOU KNOW, AND WE WILL BE REACHING OUT TO A SERIES OF ARCHITECTS, UM, ALSO TO, UH, TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE, UH, DESIGN COMPETITION, BECAUSE BEFORE WE GO OUT AND SPEND TAXPAYER MONEY, WE WANT TO KNOW IF THIS IS ACTUALLY A SMART THING TO DO AND IF IT WILL BRING US THE RESULT WE'RE LOOKING FOR.
SO, UM, A COUPLE OF MOVING PARTS THERE, BUT WE WANT TO KEEP YOU APPRISED OF WHERE WE'RE HEADED WITH IT.
UM, WE'RE TRYING TO, UH, DO SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT UNIQUE WITH IT.
UM, OUR HOPE IS THAT ULTIMATELY WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET YAVAPAI COUNTY IN AS WELL, SO THAT EVEN THE UNINCORPORATED AREA WITHIN THE VERDE VALLEY WOULD, UH, WOULD BE ABLE TO USE THESE SAME PLANS.
SO, UM, THE BEAUTY OF THE LIBRARY IS ONCE IT'S OPEN, THEN ANY COMMUNITIES THAT WANNA COORDINATE WITH US CAN COME IN.
SO IT COULD BECOME EVEN LARGER IF IT BECOMES, UH, SOMETHING THAT GAINS TRACTION.
UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE LARGER THE SCOPE, UH, THE MORE LIKELY WE ARE TO GET A LARGER SUPPLY OF, OF, UH, HOUSE PLANT TO INCLUDE.
SO, UM, SO AGAIN, WE'RE REQUIRED TO DO IT BY STATE LAW.
WE WE'RE JUST TRYING TO FIND WAYS TO, TO TAKE WHAT HAS BEEN GIFTED TO US AND MAKE THE BEST POSSIBLE PRODUCT WE CAN OUT OF IT, AND TO GET THE BEST PO POSSIBLE PRODUCT FOR, YOU KNOW, OUR COMMUNITY, UM, AND DO IT IN A WAY THAT, YOU KNOW, ACHIEVES SOME LEVEL OF AFFORDABILITY.
WE'RE ALSO LOOKING AT, ALSO, WE'RE OPEN TO ALL SORTS OF IDEAS HERE.
UM, WE'RE OPEN TO THE IDEA OF LOOKING AT POSSIBLE MANUFACTURED UNITS, UM, AND SEEING IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN HAPPEN, UM, IN THE A DU, SINGLE FAMILY, YOU NAME IT.
UM, SO WE WANNA BE ABLE TO BE AS CREATIVE AS POSSIBLE, UM, AS A GROUP, AS WE'RE LOOKING FOR WAYS TO, YOU KNOW, IF, IF WE'RE HERE TO ACHIEVE AFFORDABILITY AS PART OF THIS PROGRAM, WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO OPEN TO SEE HOW WE CAN, YOU KNOW, ALL THE DIFFERENT AVENUES THAT WE CAN MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
SO THAT'S ESSENTIALLY IT IN A NUTSHELL.
AND SO BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AND CONTINUE TO KEEP YOU APPRISED.
I JUST, I ACTUALLY HAVE A COUPLE, BUT ONE IS WHO'S GONNA SERVE AS THE, UH, JUDGE OR THE, FOR THE WINNERS OF THIS, OF THE COMPETITION? YES.
SO WE WOULD HAVE TO, AND AGAIN, THIS, THIS GOES BACK TO IF, IF WE END UP WITH A LARGER POOL OF COMMUNITY.
SO IF IT'S US, KEN, FERDY, COTTONWOOD, AND CLARKDALE, THEN WE WOULD LOOK FOR, FOR A JURY PANEL THAT WOULD INCLUDE THOSE ORGANIZATIONS.
BUT ULTIMATELY, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE INDIVIDUALS THAT UNDERSTAND ARCHITECTURE.
SO ULTIMATELY, IT WOULD BE GREAT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE AN ARCHITECTURAL PANEL, UM, IF YOU WOULD, OR INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE AT LEAST PART OF, UH, THE PROGRAM.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD HAVE TO SEE, SO THAT HAS NOT YET BEEN DECIDED.
UM, AND IT WOULD BE SOMETHING WE WOULD DISCUSS AMONG THE GROUPS THAT ARE JOINTLY PARTICIPATING.
WE WOULD PROBABLY WANT TO DO DIFFERENT PANELS FOR EACH ONE OF THEM TOO.
I MEAN, ULTIMATELY YOU'RE LOOKING AT FOUR DIFFERENT DESIGN COMPETITIONS.
UM, I DON'T WANNA WEAR ANYBODY OUT
SO, UM, BUT WE WILL, WHAT WE ARE LOOKING TO DO IF WE DO THE DESIGN COMPETITIONS, IS WE'D BE LOOKING TO DO ADUS SINGLE FAMILY HOMES FIRST AND DO THOSE AS A SET OF DESIGN COMPETITIONS.
AND THEN LATER IN THE YEAR WE WOULD DO DUPLEXES AND TRIPLEXES.
AND ONE OTHER ISSUE ON THIS, HOW WOULD THIS IMPACT, UM, HOAS THAT HAVE, UH, CCNRS THAT REQUIRE THAT IT BE BUILT ON, ON SITE, THAT SORT OF THING.
UH, SO YEAH, THE PRIVATE REQUIREMENTS OF AN HOA OR, OR A CONDOMINIUM ASSOCIATION, ET CETERA, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE A PRIVATE TOOL, RIGHT? SO WE, WE WILL CONTINUE TO COORDINATE WITH HOAS AND COAS, ET CETERA, AS WE ALWAYS DO, UM, TO THE EXTENT WE ALWAYS DO.
UM, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE ONE IS A PRIVATE, UH, ONE IS A PRIVATE SECTOR DRIVEN PRODUCT, AND ONE IS, UH, UM, PUBLIC SECTOR.
BUT IT'S NOT OUR GOAL TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR HOAS.
IT MAY, THE PRODUCTS WE COME, WE COME UP WITH IN THE LIBRARY MAY SIMPLY NOT WORK IN CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS.
SO, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S AN HOA THING.
ENGINEERING IS PART OF THE SITE PLAN PROCESS.
SO I UNDERSTAND THE PREMISE OF BOTH OPTION A AND OPTION B IN TERMS OF WHAT THE STATE GAVE YOU.
AND I CAN SEE THE BENEFITS OF THE BREADTH OF OPPORTUNITY OF OPTION B, BUT ONE REAL BIG DOWNSIDE I SEE IS, UM, LOSING
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THE CONTROL OVER COST OF THOSE PLANS AND ALSO LOSING CONTROL OVER, LIKE, I'VE WORKED WITH QUITE A FEW PROFESSIONALS.SOME OF THEM WON'T RETURN YOUR CALLS AND EMAILS.
THEY COULD HAVE A PROJECT IN THE LIBRARY, THEY COULD RETIRE, THEY COULD BE BAD AT THEIR JOB.
THEY, SO YOU, YOU HAVE THESE TOOLS THAT POTENTIALLY YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE CONTROL OF, OR IF YOU DO HAVE CONTROL, THEN YOU NEED SOMEONE WATCHING THEM.
RIGHT? LIKE, HOW OFTEN ARE WE CHECKING IN WITH THE ARCHITECTS ON THESE PLANS? HOW ARE WE MAKING SURE THAT THEY'RE TRULY AFFORDABLE? RIGHT? BECAUSE THE COST OF BUILDING IN THIS CITY IS OUTRAGEOUS.
LIKE THE ENGINEERING COSTS FOR THIS LIBRARY WILL BE REALLY HIGH.
I WOULD LIKE THE CITY TO POTENTIALLY TAKE A STANCE ON SUBSIDIZING THESE PLANS FOR EVERYONE.
IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE A, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IF THE CITY'S GONNA GET INVOLVED AND WANTS AFFORDABILITY, THERE SHOULD BE, 'CAUSE IF YOU ACQUIRED THE PLANS, LIKE IN TYPE, THAT'S WHAT I, WHY I BROUGHT IT UP.
IF YOU ACQUIRED THE PLANS IN TYPE A, YOU GUYS WOULD SET THE COST OF THOSE PLANS, RIGHT? RIGHT.
SO, AND, AND IT WOULD, MY GUESS IS IT WOULD BE A VERY DIFFERENT NUMBER FOR ONE SET OF PLANS THAN IT WILL BE FOR WHATEVER THE AGREEMENT WITH THE ARCHITECTS END UP BEING.
IT'S JUST A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF ECONOMICS BETWEEN A CITY GOVERNMENT AND A PRIVATE ARCHITECT.
SO I'D REALLY LIKE TO BE CRITICAL IF YOU'RE, IF WE'RE USING B ON COST YEP.
THE COSTS WILL BE, WE HAVE A VERY, VERY HARD SITES ALREADY.
RIGHT? SO THESE PLANS WILL HAVE TO BE ADJUSTED.
THERE'S JUST NOT VERY MUCH FLAT
SO I REALLY, I WANNA PAY ATTENTION TO THAT.
AND WHO'S OVERSEEING IT? HOW DO YOU KNOW THE ARCHITECTS ARE CHARGING? WHAT'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF MOVING PIECES IN THE LIBRARY THAT DON'T EXIST IN PART A.
I LIKE THE IDEA OF MORE OPTIONS, RIGHT? I MEAN, THE, THE FEAR WOULD BE LIKE, OH, ALL THE HOUSES ARE GONNA LOOK THE SAME.
IF THERE'S ONLY ONE PLAN SITES DIFFER, YOU KNOW, THIS WON'T HAPPEN.
RIGHT? BUT THAT MY BIGGEST RED FLAG IS LIKE, OKAY, IT WOULD JUST BE A VERY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE IF YOU WOULD CHOOSE A MM-HMM
AND I JUST, I WONDER ABOUT THE TRUE COLLABORATION WHEN WE HAVE THIS REALLY STRICT COLOR CODE, RIGHT? ARE WE GONNA EASE UP TO COLLABORATE WITH OUR NEIGHBORS? ARE WE GONNA, YOU KNOW, ARE WE GONNA FIND SOME BALANCE IN OUR CODE? OR IS THE EXPECTATION EVERYBODY'S CODES MET? BECAUSE THEN YOU'D GET LIKE, SOME VERY INTERESTING, MAYBE ONLY ONE HOUSING PLAN, RIGHT? RIGHT.
SO, AND, AND I THINK THAT OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE TO COMPLY WITH STATE LAW WITH JULY ONE.
IT FEELS REALLY CLOSE TO JULY ONE TO JUST BE BRINGING THIS UP.
UM, BUT OUR CODE'S ABOUT TO GET REVISED, LIKE, AND I THINK IF US UP HERE HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT, IT'S GOING TO GET SIMPLIFIED AND CHANGED A LOT.
AND SO THE FACT THAT YOU GUYS HAVE TO DO THIS LIBRARY NOW, NOT IDEAL, WILL YOU, WHAT'S THE OPPORTUNITY TO UPDATE, RIGHT? I GUESS NEW SUBMISSIONS, BUT BY THEN THE ARCHITECTS HAVE ALREADY DONE THE WORK, RIGHT? YEP.
SO THERE'S A, I MEAN, ALL OF THOSE ARE FANTASTIC POINTS.
UM, YOU KNOW, FROM THE STANDPOINT.
FIRST, LET'S TALK ABOUT HOW THINGS GET UPDATED IN, IN THE PROGRAM, BECAUSE WHAT WE HAVE OPTED TO DO IS WE HAVE LOOKED AT, THERE ARE FOUR COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT WE HAVE MODELED AFTER IN THIS LIBRARY, UM, THAT HAVE DONE, YOU KNOW, PRETTY WELL WITH IT.
THE PROBLEM, THE PROBLEM WITH, AND WE INTENTIONALLY WENT OUTSIDE OF ARIZONA FOR THESE, BECAUSE ARIZONA'S JUST GETTING STARTED, RIGHT? WE HAVE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT GROUPS THAT HAVE ADUS IN PLACE, UM, ET CETERA.
AND YAVAPAI COUNTY HAS THE HOME OF YOUR OWN, BUT WE DON'T HAVE A GOOD GO BY THAT HAS DEALT WITH ALMOST ALL OF THIS.
UM, OVERLAND PARK, KANSAS, UM, IS A GOOD EXAMPLE.
THEY ARE CONSIDERED THE NATIONAL MODEL, UM, ON HOW TO OPERATE A LIBRARY.
UM, WE LOOKED AT, UM, OH, IT'S IN VIRGINIA, ROANOKE, VIRGINIA, UM, IS ANOTHER THAT HAS A PRETTY EXTRAORDINARY APPROACH.
UM, SOUTH BEND, INDIANA, AND I THINK OF ALL PLACES, KALAMAZOO, MICHIGAN, I WANNA SAY.
SO, WHICH BY THE WAY IS AN AWESOME PLACE FOR ANYBODY WHO HASN'T BEEN, BUT ALL FOUR OF THEM HAVE AN OPEN LIBRARY PROCESS.
AND SO, UM, LIKE OVERLAND PARK, I THINK IT IS, FOR EXAMPLE, AND I COULD GET THE NAME WRONG, BUT, UM, THEY HAVE PRE-NEGOTIATED RATES THAT ARCHITECTS ARE REQUIRED TO FOLLOW.
UM, AS A MATTER OF FACT, THE RATE IS ACTUALLY ON THE PAGE SO YOU KNOW EXACTLY BEFORE YOU EVEN PICK UP THE PHONE, HOW MUCH THAT ARCHITECT IS GONNA CHARGE YOU.
UM, SO THAT HELPS DRIVE YOUR DECISION AS TO WHICH ONE YOU'RE GONNA GO WITH.
UM, SO THAT'S BEEN PRE-NEGOTIATED AND BUILT IN, IN ADVANCE.
UM, I FORGET WHICH ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE GROUPS, UM, HAS A, UM, A TURNOVER MANAGEMENT PROGRAM.
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SO THEY'RE CONSTANTLY LOOKING LIKE EVERY SIX MONTHS, THEY'LL GO BACK IN AND LOOK AT THE LIBRARY.AND IF THERE IS, UM, A GROUP THAT'S NO LONGER IN SERVICE, SOMEBODY HAS RETIRED, OR THEY'RE NO LONGER RESPONDING TO CALLS, UM, WE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO PULL THAT, UM, TO PULL THOSE PLANS, UH, FROM THE LIBRARY.
UH, SO THERE, THERE ARE STOP GAPS THAT OTHER COMMUNITIES HAVE BUILT INTO IT.
UM, WE JUST HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO FOLLOW THOSE IN THE PROCESS WE WOULD USE.
SO, UM, BUT, AND I, AND I THINK I MISSED A PART OF WHAT YOU HAD SAID, COLLEEN, I APOLOGIZE.
I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE SUBSIDIZING IS SOMETHING I MENTIONED IN REGARDS TO COST.
SO I THINK ULTIMATELY THE IDEA WITH, IF A CITY WAS TO ACQUIRE THE PLANS, THEN THE IDEA WOULD BE THAT THOSE PLANS WOULD BE FOR FREE MM-HMM
UM, INITIALLY IN A PERFECT WORLD, I THINK THAT WOULD'VE BEEN THE IDEAL SCENARIO FOR EVERYBODY.
THE PROBLEM THAT WE RAN INTO IS THAT THEY GAVE US A YEAR AS A COMMUNITY, OR ALL COMMUNITIES, UM, AND, YOU KNOW, SO WHEN I FIRST GOT HERE, WE IMMEDIATELY STARTED LOOKING AT OTHER COMMUNITIES TO SEE WHO WAS AHEAD AND WHO WAS MOVING FORWARD.
WHAT WE FOUND OUT IS NOBODY, UM, EVERYBODY'S SCRAMBLING TO MEET THE JULY 1ST DEADLINE.
UM, WE WERE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO GET ARCHITECTURAL DRAWINGS IN TIME.
AND AT SOME POINT WE JUST HAD TO REALIZE THAT THAT OPTION A, IN TRUTH HAD SIMPLY PASSED.
UM, WE COULDN'T DO IT EVEN IF WE WANTED TO.
THE, UM, I THINK THERE WERE SOME COMMUNITIES HOPING THAT YAVAPAI COUNTY WOULD BE ABLE TO MOVE QUICK ENOUGH THAT WE COULD ALL JUST ADOPT THEIR PROGRAM AND THAT THAT WOULD MAKE THINGS WORK.
UM, BUT THEY COULDN'T MOVE THAT FAST EITHER.
SO OPTION B, UM, YOU KNOW, BECAME A REALITY FOR TWO REASONS.
ONE, BECAUSE I'LL GIVE YOU THE POSITIVE PITCH.
IT OPENS UP THE LIBRARY TWO, BECAUSE QUITE FRANKLY, WE JUST DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO DO OPTION A.
AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE THE CITY TO CONSIDER DOING BOTH.
AND THEN ALSO HAVING THE LIBRARY.
SO YOU MEET STATE LAW, BUT ALSO THE GOALS OF THE PROGRAM BECAUSE THE CITY HAS EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO DO BOTH.
UM, AND THEN THE ONLY OTHER THING I FORGOT TO MENTION IS, UH, YOUR COMMENT ABOUT MANUFACTURED HOMES.
CURRENTLY, WE DON'T ALLOW MANUFACTURED HOMES.
SO WOULD YOU CHANGE CODE AS PART OF THIS PRO PROGRAM, OR WOULD YOU CREATE AN EXCEPTION WITH THIS PROGRAM? I THINK WHAT WE WOULD HAVE TO DO IS, RIGHT NOW IT HAS TO ABIDE BY OUR CODE.
WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO CHANGE THE CODES YET, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE CAN'T START THINKING ABOUT THOSE OPTIONS.
AND I THINK THAT'S THE THING I LIKE ABOUT THE LIBRARY CONCEPT, IS THAT WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO EVOLVE THIS INTO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
YOU KNOW, AS YOU SAID, THE IDEA OF BUYING PLANS SHOULDN'T BE OFF THE TABLE.
YOU KNOW, IF IT'S, IF IT TURNS OUT THAT, THAT THE LIBRARY IS NOT ACHIEVING ITS OBJECTIVE OR THERE ARE BETTER WAYS TO DO IT, MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD DO.
I BRING UP THE MANUFACTURED HOUSING CONCEPT, UM, BECAUSE MAYBE IT IS A VIABLE CONCEPT WE SHOULD BE THINKING OF FOR AFFORDABILITY, PARTICULARLY FROM ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT CONCEPT.
SO, YOU KNOW, IN THOSE REGARDS, MAYBE THAT TELLS US THAT I THINK THIS PLAN CAN HELP, OR THIS LIBRARY PROCESS CAN HELP INFORM US OF ADDITIONAL CHANGES WE NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT, UM, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
SO I THINK IT'S GONNA BE CYCLICAL TO SOME DEGREE.
WE'RE GONNA THROW IT OUT THERE.
UM, IT'S GONNA FALTER BADLY IN A COUPLE TIMES, BUT THAT'S HOW WE GET STARTED.
SO, UM, BUT UH, YEAH, SO ALL OF THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE GREAT.
I THINK WE NEED TO CONTINUE THE DIALOGUE, UM, ON WAYS THAT WE CAN CONTINUE, UH, TO IMPROVE IT ONCE WE GET IT OUT THERE.
I MEAN, I WONDER IF THAT WAS INTENTIONAL, NOT GIVING ENOUGH TIME, BECAUSE I'M WITH YOU.
I FEEL LIKE THERE, WE SHOULD FIND A WAY TO SAY YES TO OPTION A, UM, A YEAR.
I DON'T, A YEAR IS A LONG TIME.
I MEAN, NOT REALLY TOQ, I GUESS CONSTRUCTION MOVEMENTS, YOU KNOW, OPTION A, THAT IS A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.
BUT I MEAN, I HAVE REALLY MIXED FEELINGS ABOUT THIS.
I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA THAT THE CITY CAN PICK A FEW ARCHITECTS THAT THEY LIKE, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHO PEOPLE HAVE TO GO WITH.
AND THEN IT'S SAID, ARCHITECT A HUNDRED PEOPLE COULD BUY THAT PLAN, AND HE'S MAKING WONDERFUL PROFITS OFF OF THIS.
YOU CAN ALWAYS DO A CUSTOM HOME.
THAT'S WHAT OTHER, IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH MONEY, RIGHT, RIGHT.
BUT FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE LOOKING FOR MORE AFFORDABLE WAYS, WE'RE TELLING THEM WHAT THEY NEED TO DESIGN.
BUT I WAS LIKE, THEY'RE NOT COMING TO SEDONA.
LIKE, REALLY? LIKE, HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE COMING HERE THINKING I'M GOING TO BUILD AN AFFORDABLE HOUSE IN SEDONA.
LIKE, THAT'S WHY I WAS LIKE, I COULD SEE THE LIBRARY MAKING SENSE.
LIKE, I AM FROM THE LAND OF COOKIE CUTTER HOMES AND WE, 'CAUSE THERE'S
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FLAT LAND AND THEY JUST BUILD HOUSE AFTER HOUSE, AND THEY'RE THE SAME, MAYBE A DIFFERENT COLOR, MAYBE, YOU KNOW.BUT I'M LIKE, WHO IS GOING TO BUY PLANS HERE AND WHERE WILL THEY PUT THEM? YOU KNOW? LIKE, WE HAVE VERY HARSH LANDS.
YOU KNOW, IT'S WHAT I'VE HEARD, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S TRUE, BUT A LOT OF THE FLAT PARCELS ARE ALREADY SOLD OR BUILT UPON, YOU KNOW, SO NOW EVERYTHING ELSE IS LIKE A FLOOD POINT.
SO I'M LIKE, YOU'RE NOT JUST BUILDING LIKE AN AFFORDABLE HOUSE.
IT WILL BE A CUSTOM HOUSE IN SEDONA.
LIKE I CAN SEE CAMP VERDE AND COTTONWOOD, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT AREAS WHERE THERE'S MORE LAND AND IT'S MORE SPREAD OUT.
BUT I WAS, I WAS JUST VERY SURPRISED BY THIS THOUGHT.
I WAS LIKE, IF I MOVED TO SEDONA, I WOULD NOT BE BUILDING, I WOULD BE A CUSTOM HOME.
YOU KNOW? LIKE I THINK THE ADUS WILL GET USED WIDELY.
I THINK THE ADUS WILL GET VERY USED IF YOU, THE, THE PAIN OF GETTING THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS IN THE CITY IS YOU'VE DONE IT.
WHAT'S GONNA MAKE THAT CHANGE? I ACTUALLY KNOW THE CODE.
THAT'S WHY I'M FRUSTRATED THAT WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW.
YOU STILL NEED TO SUBMIT A SET OF CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS.
I MEAN THERE'S, I LOVE THE INTENTION BEHIND IT.
I THINK IT'S A POSITIVE INTENTION.
I JUST THINK, I MEAN, I THINK THE AB AND EVEN VERDE UNIVERSAL LIBRARY, LIKE SEDONA IS SO DIFFERENT THAN VERDE VALLEY OR CLARKDALE, OR, AND WHAT MAKES SEDONA UNIQUE IS THAT WE'RE SORT OF LIKE A KALEIDOSCOPE FABRIC.
I THINK MONOPOLY NEIGHBORHOODS, I THINK AD'S WILL GET USED A LOT.
ONE, BECAUSE THEY'RE A GOOD INVESTMENT STRATEGY, RIGHT.
AND TAKING THE HARD PART OUT OF BUILDING IS SOMEWHAT THE PLANS.
I WOULD ENCOURAGE THE CITY TO INCLUDE, UH, MULTI USE COMMERCIAL STANDARDS ONCE THIS LIBRARY IS DEVELOPED TO GET, IF WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT REDEVELOPMENT ON 89 A MM-HMM
LET'S THROW IN SOME MIXED USE COMMERCIAL STANDARDS AS WELL.
YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE GONNA DO IT.
WHY AREN'T ADUS BEING BUILT LEFT AND RIGHT NOW, I, OUR CODE MAKES IT REALLY HARD AND WHAT'S GONNA CHANGE, HOPEFULLY OUR CODE, BUT RIGHT.
THIS IS A CHICKEN EGG SITUATION WE'RE IN AT THE MOMENT.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DOING A COOL THING BEFORE WE FIX THE THING THAT MAKES THE COOL THING EASIER, RIGHT?
LIKE YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT CODE TO GET RID OF FUN.
IT'S GONNA BE MY FAVORITE TONY QUOTE FOREVER.
IT'S GONNA LIVE IN MY HEAD RENT FREE.
UH, THIS CONVERSATION WOULD BE EASIER.
AFTER WE HAD A CODE PLAN THAT LOOKED LIKE IT WOULD MAKE BUILDING MORE AFFORDABLE, BECAUSE THAT'S PART OF THE CODE STUFF THAT WE HAVE COMING.
IT'S A, IT'S A CHICKEN EGG ISSUE.
IT'S PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BUILD WHAT THEY WANT ON THEIR PROPERTIES WITHOUT IT BEING EXTRAORDINARILY EXPENSIVE.
RIGHT? I MEAN, SO I THOUGHT ABOUT THIS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF A LOT.
AND I PUT, WROTE DOWN SOME PROS AND CONS.
SO HERE, HERE'S SOME OF MY CONCERNS.
LOSS OF ARCHITECTURAL DIVERSITY.
SO THE SEDONA IS VERY DIVERSE, AND WHICH WE ALREADY HAVE BECAUSE OUR CODE IS LIMITING.
WE HAVE SUCH DIFFERENT TOPOGRAPHY VIEW SHEDS.
EVERY PROPERTY IS, IT'S, WE DON'T HAVE LIKE WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT WHERE YOU COULD JUST PUT IN OUR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD.
UM, YOU KNOW, THE COMMUNITY PERCEPTION THAT WE PRIORITIZE SPEED OVER QUALITY AND CHARACTER WHEN WE'RE BUILDING, UM, AFFORDABILITY ISN'T GUARANTEED.
SO JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE THIS GREAT INTENTIONAL PROGRAM OF TRYING TO MAKE IT MORE AFFORDABLE TO GET PERMITS, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT WILL NECESSARILY BE MORE AFFORDABLE TO ACTUALLY BUILD.
SO WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE REDUCING THE SOFT COSTS, BUT WHO KNOWS IF CONTRACTORS WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT AND INCREASE THEIR FEES.
LIKE YOU SAID, IT'S IN CRAZY TO BUILD, UM, IN THIS TOWN.
UM, AND LIKE, YEAH, I WROTE DOWN, I THINK WE NEED GUARDRAILS TO ENSURE THAT THE SAVINGS IS ACTUALLY PASSED ON TO THE BUYERS AND THE PEOPLE THAT WANNA BUILD.
UM, 'CAUSE LIKE YOU SAID, THERE'S JUST SO MUCH STRUCTURE.
IT'S LIKE A CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVENTURE BOOK AND TRYING TO NAVIGATE SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
I THINK THE INTENTION IS POSITIVE, BUT I DON'T KNOW, IT'S, I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA THAT THE PEOPLE THAT NEED THE AFFORDABILITY THE MOST ARE GONNA BE TOLD WHAT THEY HAVE TO BUILD, EVEN THOUGH THE INTENTION IS REALLY POSITIVE.
UM, PROS, WE CAN ADD ON A POSITIVE NOTE.
OBVIOUSLY FASTER APPROVALS, LOWER SOFT COSTS, WHICH IS GREAT.
UM, I THINK THERE WILL BE PREDICTABILITY FOR THE BUILDERS.
THEY KNOW UPFRONT WHAT THEY'RE GONNA BE BUILDING, AND THE HOPE IS THAT THEY COULD THEN REDUCE THEIR COSTS.
UM, THEY COULD BE MORE EFFICIENT AND BUILD QUICKER, WHICH SAVES MONEY, SCALABILITY, UM, PLANS CAN BE REUSED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
ALTHOUGH I PREFER FOR THEM TO BE FREE, OFFERED FREE TO THE PUBLIC.
UM, IT'D BE GREAT IF, LIKE YOU SAID, THE CITY COULD SUBSIDIZE AND JUST BUY THE PLANS AND THEN THAT'S IT.
UM, I THINK ANOTHER PRO IS WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THE DESIGN QUALITY AND MAKE SURE THAT THINGS LIKE SUSTAINABILITY AND, UM, COMPATIBILITY, AESTHETICS, THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO THE COMMUNITY AND IMPORTANT TO THE VISION OF SEDONA AND HOW IT LOOKS, UM, IS MAINTAINED.
[01:20:01]
DESIGNED BY RIGHT PROJECTS.I JUST, I DON'T THINK IT'S COMPLICATED.
I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GIVING OUR CODE ENOUGH CREDIT FOR HOW BRUTAL IT IS.
I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GONNA GET, HAVE SOME OF THE PROBLEM.
I'M NOT SAYING IT'S A GOOD THING.
I'M SAYING ALL OF OUR HOUSE AESTHETICALLY ALREADY KIND OF LOOK ALIKE BECAUSE OF CODE.
IT WENT THE OTHER WAY ALREADY.
YOU CAN'T BUILD THE HOME YOU WANNA LIVE IN HERE.
THERE'S TOO MANY REQUIREMENTS AROUND COLOR AND HEIGHT AND MASSING AND GLASS AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
BUT IF WE SUDDENLY WE'VE GOT LIKE, THIS IS REALLY LIKE EXAGGERATING, BUT TRACK HOME DESIGN, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? OR 80% BUILT, WHERE ARE THEY GOING? YEAH.
I THINK, I THINK, I THINK I GET WHY YOU'RE AFRAID.
BUT THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT BENEFIT FROM THIS ARE PEOPLE WHO CAN'T NAVIGATE THE CUSTOM HOME LIFE OR AFFORD IT OR AFFORD IT.
AND IT ALLOWS FOR MISSING MIDDLE THAT PEOPLE MIGHT BE TOO AFRAID TO BUILD.
WE, IF THIS WAS A COMMUNITY WITH EMPTY EMPTINESS, TOTALLY.
LIKE WE'D GET, BUT WHAT THERE'S GONNA BE ONE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
YOU KNOW, HOW MANY NEW HOMES GO UP IN WHAT, IN WHAT AREA? HOW MANY, HOW MANY HOUSES GOT BUILT LAST YEAR, GARY? YOU KNOW, I'LL TELL YOU.
POP QUIZ,
LIKE YOU SAID, WE HAVE A YEAR TO TRY AND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS SHOV, THIS IS SHOVED DOWN OUR THROATS TO TRY AND MAKE SOMETHING REALLY AMAZING FOR OUR COMMUNITY.
AND I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE DOING THE BEST YOU CAN, BUT CRIPES, THAT'S NOT ENOUGH TIME.
YOU KNOW, IT'S, AND, AND I THINK EVERY POINT RAISED IS VALID.
UM, YOU KNOW, GIVEN THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, AS YOU SAID, EVERY LOT HERE IS UNIQUE, HONESTLY, IT'S, IF THIS WOULD BE SO MUCH MORE APPLICABLE IN SAY, PRESCOTT, RIGHT? OR AN AREA THAT HAS ROOM TO GROW RELATIVELY FLAT LANDS, UM, YOU KNOW, YOUR PROPERTY ALONE DOESN'T COST, YOU KNOW, HIGH NORTH SIX FIGURES, UM, TO ACQUIRE.
I THINK THE A DU PROCESS COULD PARTICULARLY MM-HMM
AS WE MAKE IT EASIER AND, AND, UH, UM, TO DO, UH, I HONESTLY THINK IN THE FUTURE, ONCE WE GET SOME CODES AMENDED, I THINK SOME OF THE DUPLEX AND TRIPLEX MAY HAVE SOME GREATER PLAY.
I THINK THE ONES THAT ARE GONNA BECOME BE, UM, FOR US THE LEAST USABLE WILL ACTUALLY END UP BEING THE SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE.
UM, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE THE OTHER PIECES THAT ARE GOING TO, TO BECOME MORE INTERESTING IN SEDONA.
UM, I THINK, UH, BUT I DO THINK IT IS, I, I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE LAW WAS TRYING TO DO.
UM, YEAH, I APPLAUD THEM FOR DOING IT.
A LOT OF STATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE DOING THINGS, YOU KNOW, SIMILAR TYPES OF THINGS TO TRY TO DO EVERYTHING THEY CAN FOR AFFORDABILITY.
UM, BUT IN PLACES, YOU KNOW, JEROME, LET'S USE JEROME AS AN EXAMPLE.
YOU KNOW, ALMOST EVERYTHING THEY HAVE IS HISTORIC.
THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO PLACES TO BUILD, UM, BE YOURS REQUIRED TO DO THIS.
AND SO IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S, IT DOESN'T, IT'S NOT ONE SIZE FITS ALL.
YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST NOT, AND WE'RE NOT SUBURBIA.
AND WHAT HAPPENS IF SOMEBODY BUYS THE PLAN AND THEN FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY WANNA MODIFY IT, RIGHT? SO, OH, THEN IT'S BRAND NEW.
FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, THE ONLY OPTIONS YOU HAVE WITH THE LIBRARY IS TO LITERALLY FLIP THE BUILDING.
'CAUSE IT DOESN'T COST ANYTHING TO JUST TURN IT AROUND.
UM, OTHER THAN THAT, IT'S, THEN YOU HAVE TO REDO THINGS.
AND NOW YOU'RE GOING THROUGH THE WHOLE NORMAL ARCHITECTURAL PROCESS.
WE ARE WORKING WITH THE OTHER COMMUNITIES TO, UM, TO ALSO START ASKING SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS.
A WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES IN OUR CODES? HOW DO WE BRIDGE THAT? MM-HMM
AND FOR THE MOST PART, IT'S GONNA BE HIGHEST COMMON DENOMINATOR.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE MASSING REQUIREMENTS.
THE OTHERS DON'T, THERE'S NOT GONNA BE MANY OF THESE THAT WOULD MEET THE MASSING REQUIREMENTS, BUT FOR THOSE THAT DO ACROSS THE BOARD, THEY WOULD HAVE TO MEET MASSING REQUIREMENTS.
UM, SO THERE ARE GONNA BE OTHER TYPES OF BUILDING CODE DIFFERENCES AND, AND ZONING CODE DIFFERENCES THAT WE'RE ALL GETTING TOGETHER TO DECIDE HOW WE MAKE SURE THAT PLANS WORK FOR EVERYBODY, UM, IF WE'RE GONNA DO THIS JOINTLY.
SO IT'S A GOOD EXERCISE IN THAT, IN THAT WAY MM-HMM
AND THAT IT'S, IT'S CAUSED A GREAT DEAL OF COLLABORATION, UM, YOU KNOW, AMONG THE COMMUNITIES.
BUT IS IT AWKWARD RIGHT NOW? YEAH.
UM, BUT THE STATE GAVE US A THING TO DO AND WE FIGURED LET'S TRY TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DO IT THE BEST WAY WE CAN.
UM, DID QUICK, DID THE STATE SAY HOW MANY HOMES HAVE TO BE IN? I MEAN, HOW MANY PLANS HAVE
[01:25:01]
TO BE IN THAT LIBRARY? NO, WE COULD HAVE A LIBRARY THAT'S COMPLETELY EMPTY AND IT WOULD MEET THE STATE LAW.SO, SO THIS IS SOMETHING COULD BE, SO WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WE CAN'T DO IT.
WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS A, COMPLY WITH THE LAW.
BUT THEN B WHAT WE'VE ASKED OURSELVES IS, OKAY, WE COMPLY WITH THE LAW.
HOW CAN WE MAKE IT AS APPLICABLE HERE AS WE POSSIBLY CAN? MM-HMM
UM, RECOGNIZING THAT IN SOME CASES IT JUST MIGHT NOT BE.
AND, AND WE HAVE TO BE KIND OF BE OKAY WITH THAT, BUT WE'LL DO THE BEST WE CAN WITH WHAT, WITH WHAT WE'VE BEEN GIVEN.
SO THAT'S WHY, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S CLEAR THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS, THE LIBRARY IS A SKELETON, RIGHT? WHERE WE'RE JUST STARTING THIS THING WITH A COUPLE OF IDEAS THAT ARE IN THE PROCESS OF BEING FLESHED OUT.
EVERYTHING IS GONNA CHANGE NEXT YEAR.
WE'LL HAVE A WHOLE SET OF DIFFERENT IDEAS THAT WE CAN TINKER WITH AND, AND AMEND THE LIBRARY AS NEED BE.
WE'LL, JUST, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT YET TO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE LITERALLY MUDDLING THROUGH THIS, FORTUNATELY WE'RE DOING IT WITH OUR PEER COMMUNITIES AT THE SAME TIME.
SO LET'S SAY YOU PLOP THE HOUSE DOWN ON A PIECE OF LAND AND A SAID WINDOW IN THE BEDROOM LOOKS AT YOUR NEIGHBOR'S AIR CONDITIONING EXTERIOR UNIT.
IF YOU WANNA MOVE THAT WINDOW DOWN THE WALL, CAN'T DO IT.
IT'S, IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT SHOULD BE AN EASY FIX.
I, I UNDERSTAND IT, BUT I'M JUST, BUT IT'S A, IT BECOMES, IT, IT DOES BECOME FRUSTRATING.
TO THINK, YOU KNOW, WHY CAN'T YOU JUST MOVE THE DEAD GUM WINDOW? UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, AND THAT'S WHERE, THAT'S WHERE THE IDEA OF THE LIBRARY OR EVEN THE IDEA OF A FREE SET OF PLANS IS GOOD IN THEORY MM-HMM
BUT, UM, HAVING THAT WORK IN COORDINATION WITH ZONING CODES, BUILDING CODES, SUSTAINABILITY REQUIREMENTS, YOU NAME IT, FIRE CODES, UM, ALL OF THOSE THINGS COME INTO PLAY.
SO, UM, AND, AND THE OTHER THING, UH, THAT, UH, WELL ACTUALLY I'M GONNA LET ROB TALK ABOUT IT 'CAUSE I WAS GONNA STEAL YOUR THUNDER.
WE HAD A GOOD CONVERSATION ABOUT THE, JUST HOW AFFORDABLE DOES THIS REALLY MAKE A HOUSE, RIGHT? YEAH.
SO I AM GOING TO, UH, SPEAK AS CALMLY AS I CAN.
UM, AND I APOLOGIZE IF I RAMBLE.
I'VE GOT A LOT OF THOUGHTS, BUT, BUT, UH, THIS IS VERY DEAR TO MY HEART.
UH, BEING AN ARCHITECT THAT PRACTICED FOR YEARS, I WORKED WITH A COMPANY CALLED HOME PLANNERS.
HOME PLANNERS IS A NATIONAL COMPANY THAT HAS THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF HOUSE PLANS THAT YOU CAN BUY FOR A COUPLE THOUSAND DOLLARS AND GET A CD.
UH, ONE, ONE WEBSITE AT ONE ON TWO HAD 40,000 HOUSE PLANS.
ANOTHER ONE HAD 30,000 HOUSE PLANS.
YOU CAN GET A CAD PLAN FOR $2,100.
I THINK IF YOU TOOK THAT SET OF DRAWINGS AND SUBMITTED TO THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT, YOU WOULD NOT GET A PERMIT.
I HAVE LOOKED AT ARCHITECT'S DRAWINGS THAT ARE REQUIRED TO BE SUBMITTED AND GET A PERMIT.
I HAD PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IN DOING THIS WITH A 300 SQUARE FOOT EDITION.
I DON'T THINK ANY HOME PLAN SERVICE WILL COME CLOSE TO SATISFYING THE REQUIREMENTS OF OUR BUILDING DEPARTMENT AND GETTING A PERMIT.
FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THE STATE LAW IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF GOVERNMENT STICKING THEIR NOSE IN AND AN AREA THAT MAKES NO SENSE.
LET'S LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE.
I'M GONNA BUILD AN 1800 SQUARE FOOT HOME.
$400 A SQUARE FOOT IS $720,000 IN SEDONA.
I'M GONNA BUY A PIECE OF GROUND FOR TWO 50, AND I'M GONNA HAVE CLOSE TO A MILLION DOLLARS.
AND I'M BUILDING A, THIS IS ALL ABOUT AFFORDABILITY.
AND WHERE AM I GOING TO SAVE MONEY? I'M GOING TO THE ARCHITECT.
NOW, THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR WILL TAKE 10 TO 15% AS A FEE.
I TALKED TO MANY, MANY CONTRACTORS.
NO, MAX, YOU SPEND ANOTHER DOLLAR, I GET ANOTHER 15%.
SO WHERE ARE WE, WHAT ARE WE DOING A $6,000 FEE FOR A SET OF CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS IS 0.83%.
A CUSTOM FEE OF 8% WOULD BE $57,000.
I'M GOING TO TAKE 10 REUSES OF THAT PLANT TO GET MY MONEY BACK.
[01:30:01]
ARCHITECT THAT'S GONNA GET 10 CALLS.I WORKED FOR HOME PLANTERS AND DID CUSTOM DESIGN.
THEY SAID WE NEED A SOUTH, SOUTH PLANTATION THAT'S REALLY HOT, HOT HOUSE TYPE.
SO I DID A, THEY SAID, DO YOU DO SOUTH PLANTATION? I SAID, OH, ABSOLUTELY.
WHAT, WHAT THE HELL IS SOUTH PLANTATION REVIVAL DECO ROMAN? I DID ONE.
I DID 50 HOUSE PLANTS AND I HAD A RETAINAGE OF ALL THE PLANS THAT THEY WOULD SELL.
I THOUGHT I WAS GONNA MAKE IT BIG.
OUT OF ALL THOSE HOUSE PLANS, OVER A PERIOD OF 10 YEARS, I GOT $5,000.
THEY SOLD ABOUT 10 OF MY PLANS.
SO THIS IS JUST A RIDICULOUS REQUIREMENT BY THE STATE TO THINK THAT HAVING A LIBRARY IS GONNA SAVE ANY MONEY.
NOW, UH, THE OTHER THING IS THAT, OKAY, A REALTOR, I DO A SPEC HOUSE FOR A MILLION DOLLARS.
THE REALTOR'S GONNA MAKE ON THE AVERAGE, IN SEDONA, I LOOKED IT UP 5.5%.
SO WHO ARE WE GOING AFTER TO MAKE THIS MORE AFFORDABLE? THE SMALLEST PIECE OF THE PIE.
I THINK THE STATE IS JUST RIDICULOUS IN DOING THIS.
AND TO MAKE IT MORE AFFORDABLE, YOU WOULD HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU TALKED ABOUT.
HARMONY CAN A RECTANGULAR FLOOR PLAN, RANCH, HOME, GABLE ROOF, ASPHALT, SHINGLES, STUCCO AND MINIMUM PUNCHED WINDOWS.
SO FOR EGRESS OUT OF BEDROOMS, IT WOULD BE THE SMALLEST WINDOW YOU CAN MAKE.
THAT'S WHAT THEY DO TO MAKE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
IS THAT GONNA MAKE IT THROUGH THE LDC? I DON'T THINK SO.
AND THE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS, I THINK FOR THAT HOUSE SHOULD BE A BUILDER SET.
AND I DON'T THINK BUILDER SETS OF DRAWINGS GET APPROVED AND GET PERMITS.
IN THE CITY OF SEDONA, IT'S A BUILDER SET, A BUILDER SET IS WHAT I DID ALL THE TIME.
I WOULD DO FLOOR PLAN, I'D DO A SITE PLAN, NO ENGINEERING.
YOU SHOW TOPOS AND, UH, SITE PLAN, FLOOR PLAN, EVERY ELEVATION.
ROOF PLAN, UH, OVERALL HOUSE SECTION, JUST SAYING IT'S MADE OUTTA WOOD TRUSSES AND A TYPICAL WALL SECTION, BECAUSE OF THE HOUSE TYPICALLY HAD PICKET NINE FOOT CEILING THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE HOUSE.
WE WOULD DO A 5,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDER SET OF DRAWINGS THAT WOULD GET A PERMIT IN THE CITY OF DES MOINES.
I DON'T THINK THAT'LL HAPPEN IN THE CITY OF SEDONA.
SO THEN, SO I THINK THE STATE IS JUST TRYING TO CONTROL WAY TOO MUCH WHEN IT ALREADY OUR CHOICES, UH, NOT BESIDES ALL OF THE SEDONA ISSUES ASIDE, THEN I THINK STAFF PROPOSAL ADDS TO THE INSANITY.
UM, THE STATE SAID YOU CAN HIRE AN ARCHITECT AND DO THE PLANS, OR YOU CAN JUST OPEN UP A WEBSITE.
AND WHEN WE SAY ARCHITECTS, IT'S ALSO HOME DESIGNERS.
SEDONA ALSO HAS HOME DESIGNERS.
AND I'VE TALKED TO SOME ARCHITECTS IN THE CITY, AND THEY SAY SOME OF THE HOME DESIGNERS ARE BETTER DESIGNERS THAN THE ARCHITECTS.
BUT THERE ARE HOME DESIGNERS AND YOU DON'T NEED TO BE AN ARCHITECT TO DO A HOUSE IN, IN, IN THE COUNTRY.
UM, SO YOU COULD DO THAT ROUTE, OR YOU COULD JUST PUT UP A WEBSITE AND SAY, HEY, ANYBODY IS, SUBMIT A PLAN AND WE WILL PRE-APPROVE IT.
NOW YOU'RE ONLY APPROVING, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THE DESIGN.
SO WE WOULD ULTIMATELY APPROVE THE ENTIRE, UM, SET OF CONSTRUCTION DOCS WHEN THEY'RE SUBMITTED FOR PERMIT FOR THAT HOUSE.
SO THE, SO FOR LIKE YOU, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE BUILDER SET, WE WOULD ALSO WANT TO SEE THE, THE HVAC, THE ELECTRICAL, THE PLUMBING, ALL OF THAT WOULD BE INCLUDED AS PART OF IT.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S RIDICULOUS BECAUSE ALL THE SUBS HAVE TO ABIDE BY, THEY ARE REGISTERED CONTRACTORS, THEY SHOULD KNOW THE CODE.
I DID HOUSE AFTER HOUSE AND NEVER DID AN HVAC PLAN.
I THINK FOR HOUSE SUBMITTALS, THAT'S JUST OVERBOARD.
AND AGAIN, IF THIS IS ABOUT AFFORDABILITY THAT IS GOING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION, YOU'LL NEVER GET AFFORDABILITY BY REQUIRING THAT.
IF I HAD TO DO THAT AS AN ARCHITECT AND SPEND $50,000 AND TRY TO MAKE IT UP BECAUSE MY PHONE'S GONNA RING OFF THE WALL FOR THIS PLAN TO BE USED IN SEDONA,
[01:35:01]
UH, I, I'M HOPING THAT ALL ARCHITECTS AND DESIGNERS IN THE CITY OF SEDONA SAY, FORGET THIS.I DON'T THINK ANY BUSINESS IS GONNA DO THIS AND TAKE THE RISK OF MAKING THE MONEY BACK ON WHAT IS REQUIRED FOR PLAN SUBMITTAL IN THE CITY OF SEDONA.
I'M SPEAKING FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.
SO I JUST THINK, UH, THIS WHOLE THING, LET ME, UH, AND I'VE BEEN RAMBLING, I APOLOGIZE.
BUT, UM, AND YOU WANT HIGH QUALITY, I AGREE WITH HIGH QUALITY.
WHAT DOES HIGH QUALITY MEAN? DOES IT MEAN AFFORDABILITY? NO, IT MEANS MORE COST.
SO AFFORDABILITY IS NOT BEING ACHIEVED.
AND THIS WHOLE THING IS ON THE BACK OF BUSINESSES THAT I HOPE WILL SAY, THIS IS RIDICULOUS.
I TALKED TO TWO ARCHITECTS IN TOWN.
I'M, I'M, I'M DOING CUSTOM HOMES AND LIFE IS GOOD.
I AM NOT GONNA SUBMIT TO A COMPETITION WITH THE CHANCE OF MAKING BACK TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.
UM, UH, AND, AND AGAIN, THE FEE IS AT, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S GONNA TAKE IT TO DO A SET OF CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS, IT STILL TAKES A LOT OF MONEY MM-HMM
AND YET THE, THE, THE RECOMMENDED FEE IS SO SMALL THAT I THINK ANY BUSINESS PERSON HOPEFULLY WILL SEE THAT.
SO I THINK THIS WHOLE BOONDOGGLE IS STARTED BY THE STATE ON SOMETHING THAT IS GOOD FOR GILBERT, WHERE THEY TAKE SQUARE MILES AND YOU GO DOWN TO PHOENIX AND YOU SEE THE SAME HOUSE.
AND THE CONTRACTORS AND DEVELOPERS ALREADY HAVE THOSE PLANS APPROVED BECAUSE THEY'VE DONE THEM ALL BEFORE AND THEY JUST PLOP 'EM ON THE GROUND AND THEY BUILD ANOTHER 500 OF THEM.
UH, IN, IN SEDONA AND THERE'S ONLY 5% OF OUR LAND IS AVAILABLE TO BUILD ON.
I'VE HEARD, AND I'VE HEARD THAT HALF OF THOSE SITES ARE ALMOST UNBILLABLE.
I'VE GOT SOME IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD IN MYSTIC HILLS.
AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S GONNA EVER BUILD.
SO I JUST, UH, I THINK THIS WHOLE THING IS, UH, A BOONDOGGLE AND I HOPE NOBODY SUBMITS TO IT.
AND I THINK THE ONLY REASON WE'RE HAVING A DESIGN COMPETITION IS BECAUSE SEDONA IS SO FLUSH WITH MONEY.
THEY'LL THROW THE MONEY AT ANYTHING.
NO, NO OTHER CITY, I WOULD SAY NOT MANY CITIES ARE GOING TO HAVE A DESIGN COMPETITION AND SPEND $190,000 ON GETTING PLANS WHEN ALL THEY REALLY HAVE TO DO IS PUT UP A WEBSITE AND SAY, SUBMIT YOUR PLAN AND GO FROM THEM.
SO I, THIS WHOLE, THIS WHOLE THING MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS BEFORE I OPEN IT TO THE PUBLIC? CARRIE, TO ADDRESS HOLLY'S QUESTION, WE HAD 40 NEW HOUSES THAT WE REVIEWED LAST YEAR, AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE LOWER YEARS SINCE I BEEN KEEPING TRACK.
WE'VE, OVER THE LAST 13 YEARS, WE'VE AVERAGED ABOUT 50 A YEAR.
I, I DO WANNA ADD THE $720,000 FOR 1800 SQUARE FOOT WAS BASED ON $400 A SQUARE FOOT.
THE TWO ARCHITECTS I VISITED TO SAID THEY'RE DOING HOMES FOR 800 TO A THOUSAND DOLLARS A SQUARE FOOT AND IT COULDN'T GO TO 1200 MM-HMM
SO I WAS VERY, VERY CONSERVATIVE IN SAYING $400, I DON'T KNOW IF $400 IS POSSIBLE.
UM, SO, AND ALL THE ARCHITECTS KNOW WHAT IT TAKES TO GET A SET OF DRAWINGS AND WHAT THEY HAVE TO INCLUDE ON THE DRAWINGS.
UM, THEY KNOW WHAT'S REQUIRED.
AND, UH, I THINK KNOWING WHAT IT'S REALLY TAKES TO DO A CASSETTE OF CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS TO GET A BUILDING PERMIT IN SEDONA WILL AT LEAST DISCOURAGE THE TWO I TALKED TO SAID, NO WAY.
SO AS PART OF THE CRUX OF YOUR ARGUMENT, THAT BETTER CODE IS THE KEY TO AFFORDABILITY, NOT A LIBRARY OF PLANS, SIMPLIFIED PROCEDURE AROUND BUILDING A BUILDER'S, WHAT DID YOU CALL IT? A BUILDER'S PACKET? BUILDERS.
I THINK, UM, I THINK AFFORDABILITY IN THE CITY OF SEDONA, REGARDLESS OF THE CODE OR REGARDLESS OF THE REQUIREMENTS THAT THE PLAN, THE, THE CONSTRUCTION
[01:40:01]
DRAWING DETAIL THAT'S REQUIRED, UH, I THINK AFFORDABILITY IN THE CITY OF SEDONA IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE PEOPLE WE WANT TO REACH.YOU WENT THROUGH AND TALKED ABOUT THE, THE MIDDLE, THE GAP.
UH, THE DOCTOR THAT MAKES $200,000 A YEAR CAN BARELY AFFORD THE MEDIAN HOUSE IN THE CITY OF SEDONA.
UM, SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT AFFORDABILITY IN THE CITY OF SEDONA, I, I I, THAT, THAT, THAT'S, I CAN'T CONNECT THE DOTS.
IT'S LIKE, HOW DO YOU BUILD AFFORDABILITY? YOU HAVE, UH, 20 ACRES OF FLAT GROUND.
YOU CAN SUBDIVIDE WITH ROADS VERY EASILY.
YOUR UTILITIES ARE INEXPENSIVE AND YOU BUILD TRACK HOUSING.
YOU BUILD THE RANCH HOME THAT YOU SEE THAT PEOPLE HAVE BUILT BEFORE THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE PLAIN CHANGES AND IT DOESN'T HAVE HEIGHT PARAPET DIFFERENCES AND IT DOESN'T DEAL WITH ALL THE STUFF WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH.
UM, SO THE CODE COULD BE EASIER, BUT, UH, IF YOU'RE TALKING IN 800 TO A THOUSAND DOLLARS A SQUARE FOOT MM-HMM
I MEAN, IF I BUMPED MY NUMBER FROM 400 BUCKS A SQUARE FOOT TO 600, IT GOES FROM SEVEN 20 TO 1,000,800 OR 1,000,080, SOMETHING LIKE IT GETS OVER A MILLION DOLLARS.
I MEAN, SO WHAT, WHAT I FOUND FROM THE ARCHITECTS IS HAPPENING IS THAT IT COSTS ARE SO HIGH THAT THE UBER WEALTHY THAT ARE BUILDING A 10,000 SQUARE FOOT HOME, I MEAN, DO THIS 10,000 SQUARE FEET, LET'S JUST SAY 8,000 SQUARE FEET OR A THOUSAND BUCKS IS $8 MILLION.
THEY, THEY'RE DECIDING THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT.
SO THEY'RE BUILDING A 6,000 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE AND SAVING $2 MILLION.
SO AFFORDABILITY, AGAIN, AFFORDABILITY TO ME IS EVEN IF WE HAD FLAT GROUND, IT WOULD BE A HOME THAT OUR LDC DOESN'T ALLOW.
AND EVEN IF IT DID, THE DRAWINGS REQUIRED FOR A SIMPLE HOUSE WOULD BE TOO MUCH.
IT WOULD STILL COST AN ARCHITECT A LOT OF MONEY.
AND IN THE BIGGER PICTURE OF THINGS, EVEN IF YOU CHARGE 8%, IF YOU LOOK AT THE WHOLE COST OF THE PROJECT, WE'RE TRYING TO WHITTLE DOWN A SMALL PART IN NOT DEALING WITH THE REAL BIG ISSUES.
WHY DOES IT COST SO MUCH? AND YOU KNOW, WHEN, WHEN I WAS, WHEN I WAS PRACTICING IN THE STATE OF IOWA, MY HOUSE WAS HALF THE SIZE OF ANY CONTRACTORS.
THEY BELONGED TO THE COUNTRY CLUB.
AND WHAT DO, AND WHERE ARE WE GOING TO MAKE THIS WHOLE THING AFFORDABLE? IS IT A RIDICULOUS POINT? AND TO ME, IT'S A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION IN AN AREA THAT THEY CAN'T, THEY CAN'T GET WHAT THEY WANT TO GET.
THIS IS NOT GONNA END IN AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR THOSE PEOPLE THAT MAKE $75,000 A YEAR, IT IS NOT GONNA TOUCH IT.
AND, AND AGAIN, I APPRECIATE, 'CAUSE ROB AND I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE SOME OF THIS CONVERSATION, YOU KNOW, IN ADVANCE OF THIS.
AND SO, UM, THE, THE DESIGN COMPETITION, YOU KNOW, THE DESIGN COMPETITION WAS SOMETHING THAT, THAT I CRAFTED.
UM, AND AS I TOLD ROB, YOU KNOW THIS, WE'RE GONNA TALK TO DIFFERENT ARCHITECTS AS HE DID, SEE IF IT MAKES SENSE.
UM, IF WE DON'T, WE DON'T SPEND THE MONEY.
AND AS I TOLD HIM, YOU KNOW, JUST BECAUSE I THINK I HAVE A GOOD IDEA DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE IT A GOOD IDEA.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, COUNCIL HAS BEEN KIND ENOUGH TO, UH, TO SAY IF IT WORKS, GREAT, THEN, THEN HERE'S AN OPTION.
BUT WE'RE NOT GONNA SPEND MONEY IF IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
SO I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THAT TOO.
'CAUSE AND, AND THANK YOU ROB FOR CLARIFYING THAT OR BRINGING THAT POINT UP.
'CAUSE IT'S BETTER TO HAVE IT, HAVE SOMEBODY TELL ME THAT HERE AS OPPOSED TO THEM CONTACT SOME OF MY FAVORITE ARCHITECTS AND THEY'RE LIKE, WHAT
SO, UM, SO JUST WANTED TO, TO CLARIFY THAT POINT.
A NUMBER OF THE BUILDERS HERE IN SEDONA ARE NOT USING ARCHITECTS.
UH, THEY HAVE A, THEIR OWN LIBRARY OF HOMES THEY'VE ALREADY BUILT AND THEY HAVE A, A DRAFTSMAN THAT CAN MAKE A FEW SWITCHES TO THIS AND THAT FOR A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS.
AND THAT'S HOW THEY BUILD OUR HOUSE.
WE NEVER TALKED TO AN ARCHITECT.
IT WAS STILL EXPENSIVE, BUT, UM, I GUESS LESS, YEAH.
I'M GONNA OPEN IT TO THE PUBLIC.
[01:45:05]
GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.MY NAME IS TIM PERRY AND I LIVE IN SEDONA.
THERE'S TWO NOTABLE ISSUES THAT COME UP WITH THIS FIRST RUN FOR GUIDELINES FOR THIS PROPOSED HOUSING LIBRARY PROGRAM.
FIRST OF THESE, THERE DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE ANY EMPHASIS IN THE GUIDELINES ON THE PLANS BEING TAILORED TO OWNER BUILDER CONSTRUCTION, WHICH IS ONE OF THE CORE ISSUES WE FACE HERE.
THE SIMPLE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT IF YOU BREAK DOWN THE COSTS OF BUILDING A HOME, BIGGEST COST IS GOING TO BE LABOR COST.
SECOND BIGGEST COST IS GOING TO BE THE COSTS ADDED BY BUREAUCRACY.
AND THE LEAST EXPENSE IS GOING TO BE THE ACTUAL COST OF YOUR MATERIALS.
PEOPLE WHO ARE ALLOWED TO BUILD HOMES THEMSELVES, AS THEY ALWAYS HAVE IN THE RURAL WEST, AVOID THE MAJOR FACTOR THAT MAKES HOMES UNAFFORDABLE.
THE OTHER ISSUE WITH THESE GUIDELINES IS THAT THEY DON'T CLEARLY SPECIFY WHAT PLAN GUIDELINES THE SUBMITTING ARCHITECTS OR DESIGNERS WILL BE CRY REQUIRED TO FOLLOW, WHICH ROB ALREADY SPOKE TO.
AND THAT IS ALSO ONE OF THE KEY POINTS HERE OF THE TWO MAJOR FACTORS WHICH PREVENT THE CONSTRUCTION OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN THE CITY OF SEDONA.
ONE OF THEM IS NOT EVEN IN THE CODE, IT'S THE ENTIRE FIRST CHAPTER OF THE DREAM MANUAL, WHICH SETS OUT UNMET DIFFICULT PLAN REQUIREMENTS.
ROB WAS TALKING ABOUT A BUILDER SET WHEN I WAS A KID, WE PUT THE ENTIRE DRAWINGS FOR A HOUSE ON TWO OR THREE SHEETS OF PAPER.
IF IT WAS A SMALL AND SIMPLE ENOUGH HOUSE, IT WAS ONE SHEET.
AND ANY DECENT BUILDER COULD BUILD FROM THAT AT, IF THE COMPLICATED PLANNING REQUIREMENTS ARE NOT ROLLED BACK THEN OWNER BUILDER CONSTRUCTION ITSELF BECOMES IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE THE AVERAGE PERSON CANNOT PREPARE OR FOLLOW THESE PLANS TO THE LEVEL THAT THE CITY OF SEDONA WANTS THEM FOLLOWED.
THE LIBRARY OF PLANS ON ITS OWN WILL DO NOTHING.
THERE NEEDS TO BE A WIDER EFFORT HERE TO REFOCUS THE CODE ON PEOPLE PUTTING THEIR OWN ROOFS OVER THEIR OWN HEADS.
I'M GONNA CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT SINCE THERE'S NO OTHER CARDS.
BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION.
ANY FURTHER COMMENTS? ARE WE TAKING ANY ACTION ON THIS? NO.
OH MAN, I WANTED TO MAKE A MOTION.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SIX, OPENING AGENDA.
[7. Discussion/possible direction regarding potential changes to the Land Development Code.]
ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, DISCUSSION POSSIBLE DIRECTION REGARDING POTENTIAL CHANGES TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.SO THIS IS JUST THE STANDING ITEM.
TO DISCUSS THEIR PARTICULAR ANGST ABOUT THE LDC.
UM, THE PEOPLE I'VE SAT DOWN WITH SO FAR, UM, HAVE SOME VERY SPECIFIC ISSUES AND, UH, IT WAS ENLIGHTENING TO UNDERSTAND THE NUANCES OF THE LDC.
SO I, I THINK GETTING, UH, A GROUP TOGETHER, UM, AND SHARING SOME OF THEIR ISSUES IS GONNA BE VERY ENLIGHTENING.
I WAS VERY ENLIGHTENED ABOUT THE, YOU KNOW, WHERE, WHERE, WHERE THEY BUTT AGAINST THE LDC AND WHAT DRIVES 'EM CRAZY AND WHAT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE LOGICAL.
SO I THINK, I THINK GETTING A GROUP TOGETHER I THINK IS GONNA BE, UH, VERY GOOD FOR EVERYBODY TO HEAR THAT.
WELL WE TALKED ABOUT THAT, RIGHT, KURT, AND YOU SAID WE HAD TO MAKE IT LIKE AN OFFICIAL FOR ALL OF US TO BE PRESENT, RIGHT? WE HAVE TO MAKE IT AN OFFICIAL MEETING.
IF IF IT, I MEAN IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE OFFICIAL MEETING, BUT IF THEY'RE ALL GONNA BE AT ONE LOCATION, THEN WE JUST NEED TO PROVIDE NOTICE.
IF YOU'RE NOT GONNA CONDUCT ANY BUSINESS, THEN IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE OFFICIAL MEETING, BUT WE STILL HAVE TO PROVIDE NOTICE, RIGHT.
'CAUSE WE TALKED ABOUT HAVING A REALLY OPEN COMMUNITY, COME RIGHT ON WHITEBOARDS, DESIGN CHARETTE TELL US LIKE WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESN'T WORK AND HOPEFULLY PARTICIPATION WITH ALL OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSIONERS.
SO HOW DO WE MAKE THAT HAPPEN? AND THAT SOUNDS LIKE IN A MEETING.
'CAUSE YOU'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT CITY BUSINESS, SO WE WOULDN'T NEED AN POST, AN AGENDA THEN, RIGHT.
THAT WOULD BE THE CLEANEST WAY TO DO IT.
EVEN, EVEN THOUGH IT'S AN OPEN FORUM MEETING MM-HMM
AND THAT WAY YOU, YOU BASICALLY START THE MEETING, YOU ADJOURN THE MEETING, UM, BEGINNING TO END.
BUT, UM, THERE'S A COUPLE DIFFERENT WAYS WE CAN BRING TO THE TABLE OF, OF WAYS WE CAN PULL THIS OFF.
I MEAN, CAN WE DO SOMETHING SIMILAR TO WHAT COUNCIL'S DOING OVER AT THE LIBRARY AND JUST HAVE OKAY.
THERE'S ALL SORTS OF WAYS TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B.
[01:50:01]
BRING A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT OPTIONS TO THE TABLE JUST TO THROW OUT THERE.AND AGAIN, OPEN CONCEPT, RIGHT? SO WE'LL THROW OUR IDEAS OUT, Y'ALL HAVE OTHER IDEAS, BRING 'EM IN AND TOGETHER WE'LL COME UP WITH A REALLY FUN WAY TO DO THIS
THE TRICK FOR ME WILL BE TO HAVE IT BE FOCUSED SOMEHOW MM-HMM
BECAUSE WHAT I'VE LEARNED AND THE ISSUES THEY'VE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE ALSO VARIED AND SOMETIMES VERY DETAILED MM-HMM
AND SOMEHOW TO STRUCTURE IT WHERE WE DEAL WITH BIG ISSUES AND GET DOWN TO THE BOTTOM.
I'VE ALSO THOUGHT ABOUT, UH, PERHAPS DEALING IN A, UH, A HIGH LEVEL VIEW AND HAVING THE DETAIL THINGS SUBMITTED IN WRITING MM-HMM
BECAUSE EVERY ARCHITECT AND DESIGNER HAS HAD, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY'VE BUTTED AGAINST THE LDC AND THERE IT COULD GO ON FOREVER.
I MEAN, I SPENT AN HOUR AND A HALF WITH SOMEBODY AND I LEARNED A LOT.
BUT IF EVERY PERSON THAT'S DEALT WITH THIS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA BE THERE ALL DAY.
SO I THOUGHT ABOUT MAYBE CATEGORIZING AND HAVING DETAILED ISSUES PERHAPS WRITTEN THAT WE CAN ALL WRITE OR READ, UNDERSTAND, BUT IT'S SOMEHOW ALSO KEEP IT AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL.
I WANNA MAKE SURE COMMERCIAL'S NOT GETTING FORGOTTEN ABOUT, THERE'S A LOT LESS COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT THAN THERE IS RESIDENTIAL.
I WOULD GUESS THAT THE ARCHITECTS DOING THE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT JUST DO LESS OF IT.
MY ARCHITECT WAS IN AUSTIN FOR MY LAST PROJECT, SO IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'LL BE ENGAGING, I MEAN, I CAN TELL THEM TOO, THEY'RE, THEY'RE DOING THE LIBRARY PROJECT.
UM, BUT I THINK THAT THERE MIGHT BE A LITTLE HARDER ACCESS POINT FOR COMMERCIAL REDEVELOPMENT LDC CRITIQUE THAN IT WILL BE RESIDENTIAL.
'CAUSE THERE'S JUST A, I MEAN, 40 HOUSES I'M GUESSING IS A LOT MORE THAN, I DON'T KNOW, COMMERCIAL POWER.
WHO KNOWS? I'M NOT, I DON'T, I WOULDN'T HAVE GUESSED THAT HIGH ON HOUSES
UM, SO I, I DON'T WANNA FORGET.
I LIVE IN THE COMMERCIAL COMPONENT WHEN I THINK ABOUT CODE.
I DON'T ACTUALLY THINK OF, I'VE NEVER HAD TO RESIDENTIAL PERMIT.
ALL OF MY CODE COMPLAINTS ARE A COMMERCIAL.
SO, BUT THEN I REALIZED THAT'S PROBABLY JUST ME.
BUT I MEAN, LIKE, IT'S LESS, IT'S LESS COMMON.
I, I WOULD GUESS ARCHITECTS ARE DOING MORE HOMES THAN THEY'RE DOING COMMERCIAL SETS.
I I DID LEARN THAT THERE WAS A TIME WHEN THE LDC HAD A COMMERCIAL.
A COMMERCIAL LDC AND A RESIDENTIAL LDC.
THERE'S, SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IS, UM, ONE OF THE OUTCOMES IN OF THE CO CRITIQUE IS HOPEFULLY TO GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF, UM, PEOPLE'S CONCERNS.
ONE OF THE REASONS FOR THAT IS BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S SOME EDUCATION THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN BECAUSE THERE'S, THROUGHOUT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THERE'S DIFFERENT APPLICABILITY SECTIONS.
SO WE HAVE APPLICABILITY FOR SINGLE FAMILY, FOR MULTIFAMILY, FOR COMMERCIAL, FOR LODGING, FOR PARKS.
AND SO I THINK SOMETIMES THOSE REQUIREMENTS, YOU SEE THE REQUIREMENT, YOU DON'T READ, YOU KNOW, UP A INDENT OR TWO TO SEE WHAT APPLIES TO WHAT.
UM, SO YEAH, THERE'S, THERE'S DIFFERENT APPLICABILITY THROUGHOUT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE OF, SO YEAH, WE, WE DON'T HAVE A COMMERCIAL CODE.
WE HAVE COMMERCIAL INTERWOVEN INTO ALL OF THE SECTIONS OF THE CODE.
SO SOMETHING I'D LIKE TO SEE INTEGRATED INTO THE CODE, IF YOU WANNA ADD IT TO THE LIST IS, AND I KIND OF WROTE IT OUT, I ACTUALLY TOOK A SHOT AT ACTUALLY WRITING THE CODE, UM, IS A SECTION FOR EXISTING DEVELOPMENT REINVESTMENT AND IMPROVEMENT.
BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE A LOT OF OUR EXISTING BUILDINGS ARE PRETTY BEAT.
AND I FEEL LIKE BUILDING OWNERS ARE HESITANT TO TOUCH THEM BECAUSE THEN THEY HAVE TO MEET CURRENT CODE.
AND, UM, SO THE PURPOSE I WROTE IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS SECTION IS TO ENCOURAGE THE BEAUTIFICATION, MAINTENANCE AND REINVESTMENT IN EXISTING BUILDINGS AND SITES BY REDUCING REGULATORY BARRIERS THAT MAY OTHERWISE DISCOURAGE UPGRADES INTENDED TO PROMOTE ECONOMIC VITALITY AND LONGEVITY OF EXISTING BUSINESSES, IMPROVE COMMUNITY AESTHETICS AND SAFETY SUPPORT INCREMENTAL PROPERTY IMPROVEMENTS, AND AVOID UNATTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF REQUIRING FULL COMPLIANCE WITH STANDARDS INTENDED FOR NEW DEVELOPMENT.
SO I'D LIKE US TO SEE US HAVE A SECTION THAT, UM, REALLY PROMOTES EXISTING BUILDING OWNERS FROM, YOU KNOW, I JUST FEEL LIKE THERE'S A LOT OF DEADBEAT BUILDING OWNERS IN THE CITY OF SEDONA AND WE NEED TO HAVE A HIGHER BAR.
AND I LIKE TO SEE AN EASIER PATH FOR PEOPLE TO MAKE CHANGES AND MAKE IMPROVEMENTS WITHOUT HAVING TO BE LIKE, OH, YOU TOUCHED IT AND NOW YOU'VE GOTTA, YOU KNOW, WELL WE GET FRANKEN BUILDINGS, RIGHT? BECAUSE AT LEAST IN COMMERCIAL, IF YOU TOUCH UNDER A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE RIGHT.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO BRING IT UP TO CODE.
SO YOU GET, YOU GET FRANK IN BUILDINGS, RIGHT.
[01:55:01]
HAS TO DO WITH USE AND, AND ALL SORTS OF FUN STUFF.I WILL SAY A HUGE BARRIER FOR THAT WILL BE, UH, FIRE SPRINKLING MM-HMM
WHICH THE CITY DOESN'T HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER.
BUT THE FIRE SUPPRESSION REQUIREMENTS ARE JUST VERY EXPENSIVE.
AND THE REALITY IS ONCE YOU TOUCH YOUR COMMERCIAL BUILDING, THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE YOU SUPPRESS IT.
AND BECAUSE ALL OF OUR BUILDINGS ARE SO OLD, A LOT OF 'EM AREN'T.
NOT SAYING THEY SHOULDN'T BE BECAUSE YOU KNOW, FIRE.
BUT THERE ARE A LOT, THERE ARE OTHER APPLICATIONS WHERE IT'S A LOT MORE SIMPLE.
LIKE IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO, YOU KNOW, CHANGE SOMETHING MM-HMM
SO I'D LIKE TO SEE AN EASIER PATHWAY FOR UPGRADES AND REINVESTMENTS IN PROPERTIES.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE OPENING PARAGRAPH OF THE SECTION FOR THE CODE NOT DIRECTLY CONTRADICT THE CODE THAT'S COMING.
LIKE THE PARKING SECTION THAT'S LIKE, WE DON'T WANNA PAVE OVER THE PARK OVER, WE WANT A BEAUTIFUL, AND THEN IT'S LIKE NOW PARKING
THERE ARE MANY SECTIONS WHERE I READ THE INTRO PARAGRAPH AND THEN I'M LIKE, OH, THAT'S LOVELY.
AND THEN I'M LIKE, OH, HMM, THAT'S NOT WHAT THAT IS.
IT'S A SILLY THING TO BE BOTHERED BY, BUT I'M, IT'S A THING BY IT.
SO JUST A QUICK NOTE TOO, UM, WHEN WE HAD TALKED LAST TIME, I HAD HAD MENTIONED THAT, YOU KNOW, THE OPEN PORTAL THAT WE WANT TO CREATE THE WEBSITE MM-HMM
FOR PEOPLE TO ENGAGE ON AS WELL.
AND THAT WOULD GET TO, YOU KNOW, THE NOTES OF, YOU KNOW, AS, AS ROB WAS SAYING, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WANT TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE MORE DETAIL, ET CETERA.
UM, WE WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE THAT MEETING WITH THE CONTRACTOR, UM, BEFORE THIS MEETING.
SO WE'RE MEETING WITH THEM TOMORROW.
UM, AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL GET GOOD NEWS ON WHAT THAT WOULD COST BECAUSE I THINK IT'S GONNA MAKE FOR IT CERTAINLY BEING ABLE TO USE THAT WOULD MAKE THE COMMENT PROCESS MUCH EASIER THAN OUR CURRENT PROCESS.
UM, AND MAKE THE WHOLE ENGAGEMENT PROCESS FOR THIS JUST SO MUCH BETTER.
SO FINGERS CROSSED, WE'LL SEE HOW THAT GOES TOMORROW.
AND, UM, HOPING TO HAVE POSITIVE REPORT NEXT TIME WE HAVE A CONVERSATION.
WILL IT BE KIND OF THE SAME THING? WHAT WAS THAT DOCUMENT WE ALL, WAS IT THE COMMUNITY PLAN THAT HAD THAT, LIKE YOU COULD COMMENT ON CERTAIN SECTION E YOU KNOW WHAT I'M, IS THAT THE SAME IDEA OR ARE YOU JUST LIKE OPEN FORM, SUBMIT DOCUMENTS, USED VEO IN THE PAST, WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
AND TONY HAS EXPERIENCED WITH DIFFERENT OKAY.
PLATFORMS THAT HE THINKS WILL, THINKS WILL BE BETTER.
AND THAT'S WHAT IT CAN GET PRETTY MUDDLED IN THERE.
THIS, THIS FORUM HAS, UM, IT PROVIDES FOR A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT WAYS.
IT'S NOT JUST FEEDBACK ON THE DOCUMENT, BUT IT'S ALSO, UM, YOU ALSO HAVE FREE FORUM OPPORTUNITIES, ET CETERA.
AND, UM, IT'S, I I THINK IT'S GONNA BE A LITTLE MORE ENCOMPASSING.
HAS OUR TIMELINE SHIFTED AT ALL? ONLY FROM THE STANDPOINT THAT I'M STILL WAITING TO HEAR FROM GRANA, SO TWO WEEKS THEREABOUTS.
SO, YOU KNOW, I WAS HOPING TO GET IT DONE BEFORE MID-MAY.
NOW WE'RE PROBABLY LOOKING END OF MAY.
IT JUST REALLY DEPENDS ON IF THIS IS SOMETHING WE CAN DO AND HOW LONG IT TAKES TO GET IT PROCESSED AND ET CETERA.
SO IT'S JUST AS MUCH AS I HATE TO SAY IT, IT'S, IT'S A BUREAUCRATIC PROCESS THAT WE HAVE TO MUDDLE THROUGH TO GET US TO THE POINT OR WE CAN DO IT.
IF, IF FOR SOME REASON WE CANNOT USE THAT FORUM, THEN WE'LL, WE'LL HAVE TO QUICKLY COME TO AN OPTION B.
'CAUSE I DON'T WANT THAT TO HOLD US UP.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, AGENDA ITEM
[8. FUTURE MEETING DATES AND AGENDA ITEMS]
NUMBER EIGHT, FUTURE MEETING DATES AND AGENDA ITEMS. WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING CONFIRMED FOR THE, FOR FUTURE MEETING AGENDAS.WHATEVER HAPPENED WITH OUR DISCUSSION ON TERM LIMITS, WE PUSHED IT TO DECEMBER.
I'M COMING UP ON THE END OF MY SECOND TERM, SO IT WAS JUST ON MY, IN OCTOBER.
YOU ARE, I THINK WE EVER DISCUSSED TERM LIMITS, LIKE WE CAME OFF YEAH.
LIMITS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
WELL, WE, WE TALKED, WE, I KNOW WE CAN'T ACTUALLY HAVE A CONVERSATION, BUT I'M, I I GUESS I'M PROPOSING AT SOME POINT WHEN WE ALREADY HAVE A MEETING AND THINGS ON THE AGENDA TO DISCUSS TERM LIMITS BECAUSE I KNOW WE HAD MENTIONED IT, BUT I DON'T THINK I HAVE IT HERE.
I DON'T THINK WE CAME TO AN END ALL BE ALL, DID WE? DON'T COMMISSIONER MOVED.
YOU MOVED TO DEFER THIS ITEM UNTIL THE LAST PLAN MEETING OF 2026.
SO THAT WAS JUST FOR THE CHAIR ROTATION? YES, THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT.
I THOUGHT WE LOST, I THINK THOUGHT WE, WE NEVER LOST TERM LIMITS.
SO IF YOU WANT TO PROPOSE THE ITEM FOR FUTURE MEETING FOR US IN GENERAL?
[02:00:01]
NO, NO FOR EVERYBODY.TERM LIMITS FOR EVERYBODY WAS I WAS SO CURRENTLY THERE IS, THERE ARE NO TERM LIMITS.
AND IF YOU WANNA PROPOSE IT FOR FUTURE MEETING AGENDA THEN CAN DISCUSS.
SO I'D LIKE TO PROPOSE A DISCUSSION ON TERM LIMITS, UH, FOR, UH, CONVENIENT MEETING, NOT IMMINENTLY.
YOU LIKE, DON'T, DON'T BRING US HERE FOR THAT ALONE AND DON'T PLOP IT ON A MEETING.
AND THAT'S TERM LIMITS FOR COMMISSIONERS? EVERYTHING.
BUT NO, WE CAN'T CONTROL THAT.
YEAH, IT'S JUST US TO TALK ABOUT IT.
WELL WE CAN TURN OUT RIGHT NOW.
OH, DO I HAVE TO MOVE TO AGENDAS? NOT, OKAY.
NOT ACCORDING TO THE P AND Z RULES OF RECEIVED, I DON'T BELIEVE.
I WILL, IF THERE'S NO OTHER COMMENTS, I WILL ADJOURN THIS MEETING AT SIX 30.