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[1. Call to Order and Roll Call. ]
IS THE MEETING OF THE CITY OF SEDONA COUNCIL COMPENSATION WORK GROUP ON MAY 18TH.UM, WE'LL CALL THE ORDER AND DO A ROLL CALL AND THAT'S WHO YOU ARE.
AND TO, UH, GER SEAN, UH, SORRY, WHO? I AM, UH, A NEW FIRST TIME FATHER.
UH, SEAN SMITH, RESIDENT OF SEDONA.
RUSS MARTIN, STAFF LIAISON, HR MANAGER HERE AT THE CITY OF SEDONA C CHRISTENSEN, CITY ATTORNEY.
A FACE TO THE CITY ATTORNEY,
USED TO LIVE IN UPTOWN, BUT GOT OUT BECAUSE OF ALL THE MESS WITH TRAFFIC
IT MAYBE WOULD'VE BEEN FIXED WITH WHAT WE'RE DOING UP THERE NOW, BUT ANYHOW.
DID YOU LOSE WEIGHT OR SOMETHING? DIFFERENT UNIFORM.
I JUST DON'T HAVE A GREAT SHIRT.
UM, WE'LL, I'LL, UH, I GUESS WE'LL
[2. Consent Agenda.]
HAVE A CONSENT AGENDA FOR THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES OF MARCH 17TH.DID EVERYBODY GET A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THOSE BOTH ONLINE? AND I DID.
I, THE, I DID CHANGE THE, WAS IT THE FOURTH PARAGRAPH TO MEMBERS INSTEAD OF PARTICIPANTS? 'CAUSE MEMBERS YOU ARE, WE HAD PARTICIPANTS, THEN WE CAN SEPARATE MAYBE WHO SHOWS UP VERSUS THERE.
SO, OTHER THAN THAT, THAT'S THE ONLY EDIT I MADE BETWEEN WHAT YOU SAW AND TODAY.
DO I HAVE A MARGIN OF THE AGENDA? SECOND.
THIRD ITEM ON THE AGENDA TODAY IS FALL TO THE PUBLIC.
I SEE WE HAVE IMAGINARY PUBLIC, SO I THINK WE'LL GO AHEAD AND PASS ON THE AGENDA.
[4. Discussion with City Attorney concerning policies and laws ]
THING ON THE AGENDA TODAY IS OUR CITY ATTORNEY CONCERNING POLICIES AND LAWS.JUST SO YOU KNOW, BASICALLY, UH, WE WANNA DO HERE TO KIND OF LIGHTEN US ON RULES AND REGS REGARDING GIVING COUNSEL MORE COMPENSATION AND OR VARIOUS
AND I, AND I ALSO WANTED TO JUST COVER OPEN MEETING LAW BEFORE WE GET INTO THAT, SINCE YOU GUYS ARE AN OFFICIAL PUBLIC BODY.
SO, UM, GLAD TO BE HERE AND GOOD TO MEET ALL OF YOU.
SO, WHEN COUNCIL CREATES A A WORK GROUP, IT BECOMES A, A PUBLIC BODY JUST LIKE THEY ARE.
AND SO YOU'RE SUBJECT TO ALL THE OPEN MEETING LAW REQUIREMENTS OF A PUBLIC BODY.
GENERALLY HOW WE DO THESE WORK GROUPS IS WE HAVE IT BE AS A CITY MANAGER CREATED AND CITY MANAGER CREATES IT AND THEY, THEY SELECT THE MEMBERS AND THEN, THEN IT'S NOT A COUNCIL, UH, RECRUITMENT.
SO YOU DON'T HAVE THE SAME REQUIREMENTS.
BUT COUNCIL WAS SPECIFIC IN THIS ONE, AND THEY WANTED TO PUT ONE OF THEIR OWN MEMBERS ON THERE, COUNCILOR FURMAN.
AND SO, UH, WITH THOSE ACTIONS, IT BECAME A PUBLIC BODY.
AND ONCE YOU ARE A PUBLIC BODY, YOU'RE SUBJECT TO THE OPEN LAW.
AND IN ARIZONA, IT'S THE POLICY THAT ANY, UM, ANY BUSINESS DONE IN THE ELECTION BY A PUBLIC BODY BE DONE OPENLY.
AND WHEN ASKED TO CONSTRUE, IF THERE'S, IT IS OFTEN THERE'S CLOSE CALLS.
IF THERE'S A CLOSE CALL, THEN THE LEGISLATIVE POLICY SAYS THAT I'M RETI REQUIRED TO INTERPRET IT IN FAVOR OF IT BEING OPEN.
SO, UH, AND THAT'S WHAT WE DO.
SO IN THE CITY, THERE'S VERY FEW THINGS THAT ARE KEPT, UM, CONFIDENTIAL.
MOST OF WHAT WE DO IS, UH, OPEN BOOK.
UH, SOME OF THE FEW EXCEPTIONS WOULD BE EXECUTIVE SESSIONS.
UH, WHEN THE COUNCIL, WHEN THE CITY'S SUING OR BEING SUED, UH, WE DON'T HAVE TO DISCUSS THAT OPENLY.
'CAUSE IT, LETS LET EVERYONE KNOW YOUR WEAKNESSES OF YOUR CASE OR THE STRENGTHS OF YOUR CASE AND WHAT YOU MIGHT BE WILLING TO SETTLE SOMETHING FOR OUT WAY TOO SOON.
AND SO, UM, BUT BARRING THAT, AND YOU KNOW, A FEW OTHER EXCEPTIONS, EVERYTHING THAT DOES IS, IS FOR THE MOST PART AN OPEN, OPEN BOOK.
UH, SO THE REQUIREMENTS FOR YOU ALL AS A PUBLIC BODY IS THAT ANYTHING, ANYTIME YOU'RE GOING TO DISCUSS, UM, COUNCIL COMPENSATION, UH, YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE IT'S DONE IN A, IN, IN THIS MEETING RIGHT HERE.
SO, UM, THAT YOU'RE NOT GETTING TOGETHER MORE THAN A QUORUM OF YOU OUTSIDE OF THIS, UH, A QUORUM OR MORE OUTSIDE OF THIS MEETING AND DISCUSSING WHAT'S GOING ON.
SO, PUBLIC BODY ARE ALL APPOINTED BOARDS, COMMISSIONS.
YOU COULD PUT WORK GROUPS IN THERE OF THE CITY.
A MEETING DOESN'T HAVE TO BE AN
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OFFICIAL MEETING.IT CAN BE THROUGH EMAILS OR TEXT MESSAGES.
UH, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE AT THE SAME TIME.
IT CAN BE A SERIES OF THOSE THAT COUNTS AS A MEETING.
UM, AND THEN LEGAL ACTION IS A DECISION.
SO IT'S NOT AS OFFICIAL AS YOU MIGHT THINK THAT YOU ALL ARE GOING TO JUST BE MAKING A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNSEL US.
UH, SO FOR YOU, YOU WON'T BE, YOU WON'T BE TAKING ANY EGO, UH, WHAT YOU MIGHT CONSIDER LAYMAN'S TERM OF LEGAL ACTION.
BUT YOU ARE GONNA BE MAKING, HOPEFULLY, OR POTENTIALLY AT THE END OF THIS, LIKE A COLLECTIVE DECISION WHERE YOU'RE GONNA RECOMMEND SOMETHING TO COUNSEL.
UM, WHETHER IT, EVEN IF IT'S RECOMMENDATION NOT TO INCREASE, UH, COUNSEL COMPENSATION, THAT WOULD STILL BE A RECOMMENDATION.
SO THAT'S, UM, THE OUTCOME OF THIS PROCESS.
UM, IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE COMPLIANT, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS HAVE, UH, AN AGENDA AND A NOTICE AND IT'S POSTED AND YOU ONLY HAVE TO POST IT 24 HOURS AHEAD OF TIME.
WE TRY TO POST IT WEEKS AHEAD OF TIME SO THAT EVERYONE'S AWARE OF WHAT'S GONNA BE DISCUSSED AND WHAT'S GONNA BE ON THE, UH, MEETING.
UH, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO, IF IT WAS JUST THE DAY BEFORE, YOU CAN MAKE AMENDMENTS UP TO, UM, THE DAY BEFORE.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE DONE WITH THE LITTLE AGENDA AND THE PUBLIC POSTING SO THAT EVERYONE KNOWS THAT THIS IS TAKING PLACE.
UM, VIOLATIONS OF THE OPEN MEETING LAW, UH, CAN RESULT, UM, IN, IN, IN FINES, REMOVAL FROM THE BOARD.
UM, HERE'S HOW UNINTENTIONAL MEETINGS TAKE PLACE.
SO YOU CAN HAVE FRIENDS ON THE BOARD AND YOU CAN DISCUSS ITEMS, BUT IT CAN ONLY BE WITH A SEVEN MEMBER BOARD LIKE THIS.
YOU CAN ONLY DISCUSS WITH TWO OTHER MEMBERS, RIGHT? UM, OUTSIDE OF A PUBLIC MEETING, ANY ITEMS THAT MIGHT BE COMING.
UH, AND WHEN YOU DISCUSS WITH OTHER MEMBERS, THEY NEED TO BE CONSCIOUS OF WHETHER THEY'VE DISCUSSED IT WITH OTHER MEMBERS.
OTHERWISE YOU HAVE, UH, WHAT'S CALLED SPLINTER A QUORUM.
AND THAT CAN BE DONE THROUGH EITHER THE, THE DAISY CHAIN WHERE ONE MEMBER TALKS TO ANOTHER MEMBER, TALKS TO ANOTHER MEMBER WHO'S ALREADY TALKED TO ANOTHER MEMBER.
NOW YOU'VE GOT FOUR MEMBERS TALKING ABOUT THE SAME ISSUE OUTSIDE OF A PUBLIC MEETING OR THE HUB AND SPOKE, WE CALL IT.
AND SOMETIMES THAT CAN BE, IF YOU'RE NOT CAREFUL, IT CAN BE USED THROUGH STAFF.
UM, WHEREAS ONE STAFF MEMBERS, SO WE'LL USE RUSS'S EXAMPLE 'CAUSE HE'S A STAFF MEMBER HERE.
IF HE TALKS TO, YOU KNOW, TWO OF YOU ABOUT AN ISSUE THAT'S COMING BEFORE THE WORK GROUP, AND THEN HE GOES AND TALKS TO TWO OTHER MEMBERS ABOUT THE SAME ISSUE AND TELLS YOU WHAT YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT EACH OTHER, AND OR YOU GUYS ASK, WELL, WHAT DOES, YOU KNOW, WHAT DOES CJ THINK ABOUT THIS? THEN THAT CAN BE A POTENTIAL OPEN MEETING.
AND IN THIS CASE, YEAH, WITH THE, UH, DIRECTING STAFF TO ASK QUESTIONS OF ANOTHER COUNT, ANOTHER UH, WORK GROUP MEMBER COULD BE A VIOLATION EVEN IF HE DOESN'T FOLLOW IT.
SO THAT'S, EVEN IF YOU JUST, JUST KNOWING, JUST DIRECTION ALONE CAN BE A POTENTIAL VIOLATION.
UH, AND THEN, LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE, PENALTIES CAN BE REMOVAL.
UM, AND IT CAN INCLUDE A FINE, IF IT WAS, UM, UP TO $500 FOR AN ACCIDENTAL VIOLATION IN THE CITY, CANNOT PAY THAT FINE FOR YOU.
SO, BUT THEY HAVE, WITH COUNSEL OF COUNSEL, WHICH THEY NEVER HAVE, BUT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL DETERMINED THAT A FINE WAS NECESSARY FOR A VIOLATION, THEN IT'S AGAINST THE PERSON.
UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF, YOU KNOW, RELATIONSHIPS YOU HAVE OUTSIDE OF THIS, UH, WORK GROUP.
UH, IT'S BEST TO HAVE PEOPLE THAT COMMUNICATION HERE IN THE PUBLIC BODY.
SO ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT? ALRIGHT.
IF YOU EVER HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR YOU'RE CONCERNED THAT YOU CAN EMAIL ME, I'LL STOP BY MY OFFICE.
UM, AND I'M HAPPY TO, UH, ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AT ANY TIME.
ALRIGHT, WELL THEN LET'S GET INTO, UM, ONE OF THE REASONS YOU ALL ARE HERE, UM, IS 'CAUSE OF THIS LITTLE CITY CODE SECTION TWO POINT 15.050 COMPENSATION.
SO THIS IS WHAT SETS COUNCIL'S COMPENSATION CURRENTLY, AND IT'S $800 FOR THE MAYOR EACH MONTH AND $550 FOR EACH COUNCIL MEMBER.
UH, AND THAT WAS SET IN 2015? IT WOULD, NO, IT WAS LAST UPDATED IN 2022.
OH, SO IT WASN'T ALL THAT LONG AGO.
IT WAS, YOU KNOW, IT'LL BE, BY THE TIME THIS GETS AROUND, IT'LL BE FIVE YEARS AGO.
IF I REMEMBER IT WAS LIKE SIX 50 AND 500 OR FOUR 50 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
YEAH, IT WAS LIKE A BUCKS OR SOMETHING.
YEAH, IT WAS, YEAH, THEY MOVED IT UP A HUNDRED OR 150 BUCKS FOR THE TWO OF THEM.
SO, UM, THE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT NUMBERS LIKE THAT, IT'S APPARENT THAT THE GOAL WAS JUST TO PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT OF YEAH.
LIKE OFFSET A LITTLE BIT OF, UH, GAS, YOU KNOW, AND TIME, YOU KNOW, NOTHING, YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY PAYING THEM FOR ANYTHING, IS WHAT IT WOULD APPEAR
[00:10:01]
TO ME.SO COUNSEL, UH, GETS TO AMEND IT'S COMPENSATION SIMPLY BY AMENDING THE ORDINANCE.
UM, AND SO TO AMEND AN ORDINANCE, ALL I NEED TO DO IS POST, UH, NOTICE OF IT AND HAVE A DRAFT ORDINANCE, AND THEN HAVE A HOLD OF ONE PUBLIC HEARING SINCE IT'S JUST AN AMENDMENT.
AND THEN THEY CAN ADOPT IT ON THAT SAME MEETING IF THEY WANTED TO.
THEY CAN AMEND IT TO, TO, UM, TO ANY AMOUNT REALLY.
SO IT IS CONTROLLED THOUGH BY TWO, UH, STATE LAWS.
UH, THE FIRST ONE'S HERE IN A RS NINE DASH 2 74, AND IT SAYS THEY CAN FIX THE SALARIES OF COUNSELORS AND IT DOES SAY A DAILY COMPENSATION.
AND THAT'S ACTUALLY HOW, I'M NOT SURE IF WE'RE STILL DOING THIS OR NOT.
IN THE PAST RU I'VE HEARD THAT WHEN COUNSELORS MISS A MEETING, SOMETIMES PAYROLL WILL ONLY GIVE THEM LIKE, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, YOU KNOW, TWO MEETINGS A MONTH.
AND IF YOU MISS THEM, YOU, YOU ONLY GET HALF OF IT
WE'VE DONE THAT IN OTHER CITIES ACTUALLY.
I'VE ALWAYS BEEN LIKE, NO, IT'S JUST LIKE PER MONTH.
WHETHER IT DOESN'T SAY IF YOU ATTEND MEETING, BUT, BUT THAT'S SUPPORTED BY THE STATE LAW HERE, WHERE IT'S REALLY LIKE A DAILY COMPENSATION.
SHOULD IT BE, YOU KNOW, DAILY THAT THEY ACTUALLY SHOW UP AT A MEETING OR, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS, IT SEEMS TOO MUCH TO KEEP TRACK OF.
IT SHOULD JUST, I'M HAPPY WITH JUST THE FLAT MONTH.
UM, AND IT SAYS IN BOTH THOSE SECTIONS, IT'S JUST GOING TO BE BY ORDINANCE OR RESOLUTION BECAUSE IT'S IN THE CITY CODE.
UM, THAT REQUIRES AN ORDINANCE TO CHANGE IT.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE IN THE CITY CODE COUNCIL COULD JUST PASS A RESOLUTION, UH, TAKEN OUTTA THE CITY CODE BY ORDINANCE AND THEN BY RESOLUTION FROM THEN ON.
BUT THE EFFECT IS REALLY THE SAME.
EITHER A RESOLUTION OR AN ORDINANCE TAKES 30 DAYS TO GO INTO EFFECT.
UM, IT STILL REQUIRES A YOU PUBLIC MEETING AND A MAJORITY VOTE OF COUNCIL.
SO, UM, I THINK IT'S FINE LEAVING IT IN THE ORDERING SECTION.
UH, THE OTHER ONE THAT WE HAVE FOLLOWED, ALTHOUGH THERE'S AT LEAST ONE CASE THAT AT LEAST IMPLIES THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW THIS, I THINK IT'S GOOD PRACTICE TO DO IT ANYWAYS, IS IN THE ARIZONA CONSTITUTION.
THERE'S THE A SECTION ABOUT LEGISLATIVE COMPENSATION.
AND IT SAYS THAT IF YOU'RE A LEGISLATOR AND, AND YOU, WHICH GENERALLY, UH, CITY COUNCILS ARE CONSIDERED, UM, LOCAL LEGISLATIVE WISE, UM, THEY'RE EVEN REFERRED TO THAT IN OTHER PLACES IN THE CONSTITUTION.
SO, UM, A LEGISLATURE CANNOT GRANT THEMSELVES EXTRA COMPENSATION DURING THEIR TERM OF OFFICE.
UH, BUT THEN THERE'S AN EXCEPTION AND IT JUST SAYS IT HAS TO GO INTO EFFECT.
UH, AND THEY WON'T, THEY WON'T BE DISMISSED EITHER, BUT IT SAYS IT'LL JUST GO INTO EFFECT, UM, AT THE NEXT ELECTION.
BUT THEN THERE'S A LITTLE PHRASE HERE AT THE END THAT SAYS, IF YOU'VE GOT TWO OR MORE OFFICERS, WHICH WE DO, UM, AND THEIR RESPECTIVE TERMS OF OFFICE ARE NOT CO-TERMINUS, WHICH IS WHAT WE ALSO HAVE.
SO WE ALWAYS, THE ORDINANCE AND, AND STATE LAW WILL KEEP IT SO THAT THE MAYOR'S ELECTED EVERY TWO YEARS.
AND THREE COUNSELORS ARE ELECTED EVERY OTHER ELECTION, EVERY, UH, REGULAR ELECTION OR PRIMARY.
SO EVERY FOUR, THEY HAVE FOUR YEAR TERMS. SO THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE EVERY TWO YEARS YOU'RE VOTING FOR FOUR PEOPLE IN, IN THE CITY OF SEDONA.
UH, SO THEY DON'T HAVE COTERMINUS, UM, THERE'S MORE THAN TWO AND THEY'RE NOT COTERMINUS.
AND THEN IT SAYS SO THAT IF YOU'RE GONNA INCREASE THE SALARY OF ANY OF THEM, IT INCREASES THE SALARY OF ALL OF THEM.
RIGHT? SO THAT'S HOW, UH, THE LEGISLATURE DOES IT.
SO IF THE LEGISLATURE WANTS TO INCREASE THEIR OWN SALARY IN ARIZONA, THEY PASS IT AND IT GOES IN EFFECT THE NEXT LEGISLATIVE TERM.
AND EVEN IF YOU'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR TERM, UH, YOU, YOU THEN GET THE INCREASE AS WELL.
SO, UH, BUT THAT'S, LIKE I SAID, THIS IS HOW WE'VE, THE PROCESS WE FOLLOWED AND IT'S IN THE CONSTITUTION, I THINK, I THINK IT'S GENERALLY GOOD.
UH, BUT THERE'S AT LEAST ONE CASE OUT THERE THAT SAYS WE'RE AT LEAST FOR THIS POSITION, THIS PORTION OF THE CONSTITUTION, THAT THE CITY DOESN'T HAVE TO FOLLOW THAT.
SO, UM, THEY COULD FEASIBLY VOTE THEMSELVES IN A, A RAISE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TERM.
UM, BUT THEY'VE NEVER BEEN INTERESTED IN THIS.
THIS IS THE PROCESS WE'VE ALWAYS FOLLOWED.
SO WHENEVER COUNCILS PASS AN INCREASE, THEY, THEY'LL PASS IT SOMETIME, YOU KNOW, SEPTEMBER OR OCTOBER TO GO INTO EFFECT IN NOVEMBER WHEN THE NEW COUNSELORS ARE SEATED.
ALRIGHT, UH, COUNCILLOR FURMAN, UH, WILL PROBABLY SO THOROUGH, HE'LL PROBABLY LISTEN TO THIS.
SO I'M GONNA GO THROUGH A FEW OF HIS QUESTIONS THAT HE HAD, UM, THAT I PUT ON HERE.
UM, THAT A COUNSELOR SHOULD NOT RECEIVE A PAY INCREASE UNTIL AFTER A COUNSELOR IS ELECTED OR REELECTED.
SO RIGHT NOW IT'S WHEN, UH, WE JUST FOLLOW THE, THE STATE CONSTITUTION.
WHEN A NEW, UH, PA UH, NEW INCREASE, UH, CON COUNCIL COMPENSATION IS INCREASED, UH, ONCE THE NEW COUNSELORS ARE, ARE SAT, ALL OF THEM GET THE INCREASE AND THE MAYOR COURSES EVERY TWO YEARS.
SO, AND HE'S KIND OF IN HIS OWN, HE OR SHE'S IN THEIR OWN BODY.
SO THAT TAKES, UM, THE PLACE OF THAT.
UH, BUT YOU COULD TOTALLY HAVE IT.
THE COUNSELORS WHO ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TERM WON'T GET IT UNTIL THEY'RE REELECTED.
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JUST BE AN EXTRA SENTENCE IN THE ORDINANCE THAT SAYS ANY INCREASE WILL NOT APPLY UNTIL, UM, AFTER, UH, THE, THE OFFICE IS ELECTED.SO THAT'S NOT IN THE ORDINANCE NOW.
SO RIGHT NOW IT'S, UM, JUST EVERYONE'S GETS THIS PAID.
AND THE WAY WE, AND I LOOKED AT THE PAST ONES, 'CAUSE I WAS HERE WHEN WE DID THIS IN 2022, UH, AND THE TIME BEFORE THAT THEY DID, IT WAS CLEAR BACK IN 2014, UH, AND THEY DID THE SAME THING.
THEY PASSED IT SOMETIME THAT FALL.
I WENT OVER INTO THAT AFTER THE ELECTION.
EVERYONE GOT THE LITTLE, LITTLE RAISE BACK THEN TOO.
SO, BUT IT COULD BE THAT, I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING FOR THE, THIS WORK GROUP TO DISCUSS.
AND THEN COUNCIL EVENTUALLY, YOU KNOW, WOULD IT BE FAIR TO PAY, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, SO IT'D BE A TWO YEAR TERM, RIGHT? YOU'RE GONNA BE A, YOU'D HAVE DIFFERENT COUNCIL COMPENSATIONS, UH, FOR A TWO YEAR IF YOU, IF YOU HAD TO WAIT UNTIL YOU WERE
PRO OF THAT WOULD BE JUST TO LIKE, MAKE IT SEEM LIKE YOU'RE NOT GIVING YOUR CELL PHONE.
UM, SO THERE, THERE IS AN ELECTION THIS YEAR, CORRECT? CORRECT.
AND THAT'S PARTLY WHY I THINK THERE'S DISCUSSIONS TAKING PLACE NOW.
AND BUT THE, YOU WERE REQUIRED TO, WAS THE DEADLINE ALREADY PASSED IF YOU WANTED TO RUN? YES.
SO IS IT FOR THAT PURPOSE, LIKE ONE OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT IS ABOUT ENTICING MORE PEOPLE.
ARE WE EFFECTIVELY SAYING THAT THIS SHOULDN'T BE EFFECTIVE UNTIL THE NEXT ELECTION CYCLE NO MATTER WHAT, BECAUSE IT NOW IS TOO LATE TO INCENTIVIZE ANYONE FOR THIS TIME? TECHNICALLY, I BELIEVE IT IS TOO LATE FOR ANYBODY THAT IT MIGHT BE.
YEAH, YOUR SIGNATURE PACKETS I THINK WERE LONG DUE.
UM, AND MAYBE YOU COULD DO LIKE A WRITING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT YES, THAT'S, BUT THE COUNCIL DOES HOLD THE OPTION TO FILE A COMPENSATION OR SOME KIND OF RESOLUTION TO SAY, OKAY, WELL THIS CAME INTO EFFECT AFTER YOU'D FILED YOUR PACKAGE AND NOW WE'RE GONNA GIVE YOU THAT TYPE OF THING.
YEAH, I THINK WHAT CJ'S ASKING IS, UM, COUNSEL COULD, IF THEY WERE TO VOTE TO AMEND THIS, IT COULD, THEY COULD VOTE TO HAVE IT NOT TAKE EFFECT UNTIL 2028, NOVEMBER, 2028, MARCH TO AND, AND THEN EVERYONE WOULD KNOW WELL AHEAD OF TIME WHAT THE CONVERSATION WOULD BE.
MAYBE ATTRACT MORE VOTERS OR CANDIDATES WOULD AT, AT THIS POINT IN TIME WOULD THEORETICALLY THAT BE AN ENTIRELY NEW COUNCIL IN 2028 BASED ON THE ELECTION CYCLES? OR IS THERE STILL COUNSELORS THAT LIKE IT COULD THEORETICAL FROM RIGHT NOW, COULD THEORETICALLY BE AN ENTIRELY NEW COUNCIL IF NONE OF THOSE SEEKING REELECTION GOT VOTED IN THIS TIME AND THEN THE SAME THING HAPPENED AGAIN NEXT TIME.
IT COULD BE ENTIRELY NEW COUNCIL, THEORETICALLY SENSE.
AND HISTORICALLY THE COUNCIL'S BEEN MORE, THEY USUALLY GET REELECTED THAN NOT MAYOR, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A LITTLE MORE YEARS.
I, I CAN'T REMEMBER YOUR FIRST NAME AND WE DID THE ROLL CALL AND I, YEAH, I'M COLLIE HI COLLIE.
UH, HYPOTHETIC, I GET THE IDEA OF PUTTING IT OFF FOR PEOPLE TO BE INCENTIVIZED BY IT, BUT I THINK I BROUGHT UP THE LAST MEETING AND TELL ME IF THIS IS LIKE SOMETHING WE CAN'T DO, BUT CAN COUNSELORS REFUSE THE COMPENSATION AND REDIRECT IT ELSEWHERE? OR LIKE, I, I'M PRETTY SURE I READ ABOUT A CITY WHAT I WAS DOING ALL OF THIS.
IT'S LIKE THEY CAN GIVE IT TO PARKS, THEY CAN, CAN WE WRITE THE ORDINANCE IN A WAY THAT WAS LIKE, SO THAT'S ALREADY AN OPTION, RIGHT? EVEN WITH, WITHOUT BEING WRITTEN MM-HMM
IF I GET MY CHECK TO 550, I CAN DO, GO AHEAD AND DONATE IT BACK TO THE CITY OR WHATEVER.
BUT WE CAN'T WRITE THE ORDINANCE AS WELL TO ALLOW IT TO BE MORE DIRECT.
SO YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO GET, SO RIGHT NOW YOU WOULD GET THE MONEY AND THEN YOU COULD DO WHATEVER YOU WANT WITH IT, RIGHT.
WHICH, YOU KNOW, COULD HAVE IMPLICATIONS FOR PEOPLE.
SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE KEEP IN MIND IS THAT IF PEOPLE DON'T WANNA TAKE IT, WE GIVE THEM AN AVENUE THAT IS POTENTIALLY NOT ASKED IF, YOU KNOW, GETTING INCOME OR YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A W2 MIGHT NOT BE GREAT FOR EVERYONE.
UM, IS THAT ALLOWED? YEAH, NO, YEAH.
YOU CAN DEFER THE YOUR OR JUST NOT ACCEPT THE PAY.
SO, AND IF YOU DON'T ACCEPT IT, THEN NOT A TAX LAWYER.
BUT I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS YOUR INCOME IF YOU DIDN'T EVER GET IT.
SO YOU DIDN'T GET A W2, THE CITY WOULDN'T.
YEAH, THEY WOULD ONLY THE W2 WOULD CHOSE ZERO THEN.
SO I DON'T THINK WE ONLY DO WTS COUNCILS OR WHATEVER.
YEAH, THEY MAY NOT, THEY MAY NOT, THEY MIGHT BE UNDER THE, NO, THEY'RE NOT UNDER ANYWAY.
UH, SO REGARDLESS OF WHEN WE PUT IT INTO EFFECT, THEY'LL HAVE THE OPTION NOT TO ACCEPT, WHICH I THINK IS IMPORTANT.
UM, BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ON COUNCIL'S FINANCIAL SITUATION IN THIS EXACT MOMENT.
THERE COULD ACTUALLY BE SOMEONE WHO'S STRUGGLING TO BE UP THERE.
RIGHT? SO IF WE'RE GONNA ADD COMPENSATION, I DON'T KNOW IF I SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN STARTING AT THIS ELECTION CYCLE VERSUS NEXT, FOR INSTANCE, JUST AS A POINT OF DISCUSSION FOR ALL OF US.
BECAUSE WE COULD MAKE A VERY EASY, LIKE, YOU
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DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THIS, YOU KNOW, LIKE EITHER WAY.I THINK THE ONLY REASON THAT I THINK IT MAY BE BENEFICIAL TO DELAY IS FROM A PUBLIC PERSPECTIVE IT MAKES SETTING IT AS 28 28.
SO IT'S A CLEAR LINE OF, OF NO ONE ON THIS COUNCIL IS THEORETICALLY ASKED TO GET IT UNTIL THEN.
SO IT, LIKE IF, AND I'M I'M IMAGINING THIS IS GOING TO BE A SUBSTANTIAL INCREASE FROM $550 A MONTH.
WELL THAT'S PRETTY ASSUMING IT IS ASSUMING.
UH, AND GIVEN THAT I THINK, YOU KNOW, IF IF IT WENT TO JUST THROW A NUMBER IF TO $40,000 A YEAR, IT WOULD NOW PUT IT IN THE TOP 10 OF HIGHEST PAID CITY COUNCILORS IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA.
AND YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THAT'S THE POINT OF TOTALLY IS I THINK THAT KIND OF JUMPED BY IS, I MEAN I'M SURE UH, THE RED ROCK NEWS IS GONNA JUMP ON WHATEVER AND MAKE THEIR, YOU KNOW, AND PEOPLE ARE VERY OPINIONATED IN THIS TOWN.
SO MAKING A, THIS IS FAR OFF AND WE'RE TRYING TO GIVE AS MUCH GUIDELINE LIKE CLEARANCE.
IT ALSO GIVES A LONG RUN AWAY FOR PEOPLE TO LIKE NOT BE MAD ABOUT IT BY THE TIME IT GETS AROUND, YOU KNOW? MM-HMM
UM, AND IF SOMEONE WANTS TO RUN IN 2028, THEY HAVE TWO AND A HALF YEARS NOW TO BE READY FOR THAT.
VERSUS IT'S AGAIN, TOO LATE FOR THIS ELECTION CYCLE TO, TO HAVE ANY NEEDED INFLUENCE BEYOND JUST POSSIBLY SUPPORT.
AND MAYBE THAT THERE, UH, JUST A LINE OF LIKE IF MAYBE THE PAY INCREASE WOULDN'T HAPPEN THIS CYCLE, BUT IF WE DECIDED THAT BENEFITS WERE WERE ACCEPTABLE, THAT WOULD GO IN IMMEDIATELY.
YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY IS FLAGSTAFF DID A STEP UP AND I'M SURE PETE WILL TELL US THIS WHEN WE SEE REAPPEARS MM-HMM
UM, BUT LIKE FLAG STEP DID A VERY GRADUAL STEP UP OF THE PLAN BECAUSE IT WAS SIMILAR.
IT WAS LIKE WE CAN'T GO FROM $500 TO 40,000 OR WHATEVER WAS, SO THEY DID, CORAL DID LIKE A WELL NEXT YEAR IT'S THIS MUCH AND IN TWO YEARS IT'S THIS MUCH, YOU KNOW, SO LIKE EASES THAT SHOCK VALUE OF YEAH.
THE TOTAL PACKAGE AND ALL THAT.
AND THEN I THINK SHE DID LIKE FIVE, HE'LL TELL US, UM, FIVE YEARS OUT AND ON HER WAY OUT.
BUT I THINK THAT YOU'RE RIGHT THAT IT DEFINITELY LOOKS, EVEN THOUGH I DON'T THINK ANY OF OUR COUNCIL'S GONNA BE SELF, SELF-SERVING VOTING FOR THIS ORDINANCE, IT DOES MAKE IT LOOK COMPLETELY NOT SELF-SERVING 'CAUSE NOBODY GETS IT.
WHICH MAYBE TAKES THE STING, I DON'T KNOW ANYONE ELSE.
ALRIGHT, GOING DOWN THE LIST HERE.
THAT P SO THAT'S ACTUALLY THE POSSIBILITY.
BLINKING FUTURE PAY INCREASES TO SOME EXTERNAL MEASURE.
ONE, IT CAN BE, YEAH, YOU CAN TOTALLY ENTER IT IN GRADUALLY AS GRADUALLY.
ONE, YOU COULD TAKE FIVE AND 20 YEARS.
COUNCIL CAN ALWAYS COME IN AND CHANGE IT IF THE NEW COUNCIL DOESN'T LIKE IT, DOESN'T LIKE IT LIKE THIS.
THAT'S, UM, AND THEN IT CAN BE LINKED TO, I MEAN, YEAH, UNIFIED COUNTY JUDGE PAY THE COUNTY, THE SUPERIOR COURT JUDGES MAKE PRETTY GOOD MONEY NOW.
SO YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO, I I I THINK WHAT HE MEANT BY IS THAT WAS LINKING IT TO A PERCENTAGE OF THAT MAYBE, YOU KNOW, 10% OF WHAT THEY MAKE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UM, 20 PER, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WOULD BE.
UH, BUT YEAH, YOU COULD, YOU COULD EARMARK IT TO SOMETHING SO THAT COUNCIL DOESN'T HAVE TO KEEP ENTERING INTO IT.
UM, I ACTUALLY THINK IT'S PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA TO HAVE COUNCIL SIT DOWN AND REVIEW IT AND IF THEY WANNA MAKE CHANGES TO IT INSTEAD OF JUST HAVING IT BE SOME AUTOMATIC THING AND SO THAT THERE'S THIS TYPE OF DISCUSSION CAN HAPPEN.
UM, BUT THAT'S A POSSIBILITY TO LINK IT TO A CPI INDEX AND HAVE IT GO UP.
UH, THE SECOND ONE, PUTTING THE REVISED PAY STRUCTURE OUT FOR AN ADVISORY VOTE WITH THE PEOPLE.
SO THE CITY CANNOT DO ADVISORY VOTES.
UH, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS COMING HERE, BUT PETE KNOWS THIS, BUT I THINK HE WANTS, SO THAT I WOULD JUST SAY IT.
UH, BUT THE, UM, THE CITY'S ONLY ALLOWED TO DO GO TO THE ELECTIONS ON ITEMS THAT IT'S SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZED TO IN STATE LAW.
AND SO THAT'S, UM, KIND OF FEW AND FAR BETWEEN.
WE CAN'T JUST DO IT IN ADVISORY ELECTIONS.
AND THAT'S COME OUT OF A NUMBER OF COURT CASES, ARIZONA SUPREME COURT CASES THAT THE CITY ONLY HAS AUTHORITY TO HOLD ELECTIONS ON, ON ITEMS ON ISSUES SPECIFICALLY LISTED IN THE, UH, ARIZONA REVISED STATUTES.
THAT ALLOWS US, AND THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE BECAUSE THE REVISED STATUTE JUST SAYS COUNSEL GETS TO DO IT BY ORDINANCE OR RESOLUTION.
SO WE COULD TRY TO AMEND THAT LAW BY ADDING A NEW SUBSECTION D THERE, UH, THAT SAYS COUNCILS CAN DO ADVISORY VOTES.
UH, BUT WE AREN'T GENERALLY SUCCESSFUL WITH GETTING THE LEGISLATURE TO CHANGE THINGS THAT WE THINK WOULD BE GOOD.
SO, BUT
[00:25:01]
PAYS SOMETHING BIG GET NO, THEY DO NOT.UH, SO THAT'S COMING DOWN TO THAT.
SO THIS IS, UH, LET'S SEE, COLLEAGUES I, UH, ISSUE SHE BROUGHT UP DONATE OR DECLINED.
YOU CAN, YOU CAN PUT THAT IN THERE.
UM, YEAH, RIGHT NOW I DON'T SEE, I DECLINE.
I DON'T THINK YOU, I GUESS WE'RE GONNA ISSUE THE CHECK 'CAUSE THE ORDINANCE SAYS WE HAVE TO.
SO EVEN YOU SAID NO, NO, DON'T SEND IT TO ME, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO SEND IT TO YOU ANYWAYS.
UM, SO THAT'S COULD CERTAINLY JUST BE IN THERE OR DONATE TO A CHARITY OR, UM, I GUESS IT'D PROBABLY BE DONATE TO A CITY.
LIKE LEAVING THE CITY MIGHT BE EASIER.
CHARITIES COULD BE A LITTLE INTERESTING.
'CAUSE WHAT IF IT'S A, A CHARITY, SOMEONE DOESN'T, THERE'S A LOT OF INTERESTING 5 0 1 C3, SO YEAH.
UH, THAT ONE I THINK WOULD PROBABLY BE, LOOK, YOU CAN ACCEPT IT AND YOU CAN GO DONATE YOUR SALARY YOU WANT TO AND ON YOUR OWN.
SO, SO JUST TO CLARIFY, WE COULD PUT IN THE VERBIAGE FOR THEM TO NEVER RECEIVE IT.
AND LIKE, I THINK THE CITY HAS, AGAIN, LIKE, LIKE THEY HAD LIKE THREE AVENUES.
IT COULD BE LIKE PARKS AND ARTS AND LIKE IF YOU DON'T WANT IT, YOU PICK ONE OF THESE PILES WITHIN THE CITY.
WITHIN THE CITY THAT MAKES SENSE.
AND LIKE, AND IT'S ALL ANONYMOUS.
LIKE NO ONE KNOWS WHETHER YOU'RE TAKING THE PAY OR NOT.
AND IT WAS WHAT I SAW WHEN I IS THAT
RUSS AND RUSS IN PAYROLL, I SUPPOSE YOU COULD PROBABLY DO A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST AND WE WOULD KEEP THAT CONFIDENTIAL.
SO IF SOMEONE, IF THE RED RECORD NEWS ANNUALLY WANTED TO SEE WHO WAS TAKING THEIR PAY OR NOT AND THEN PUBLISH A NEWS ARTICLE THAT WOULD PROBABLY, UH, I THINK THAT WOULD BE FINE.
SO, YOU KNOW, BE ASHAMED OF WELL NO, YOU DON'T WANNA TO USE IT AS A SELF-SERVING LIKE, WELL I DIDN'T TAKE, YOU KNOW.
THAT LEADS TO SOMEONE WHO'S AFFLUENT ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT AND SOMEONE'S THE THAT TURNS INTO A WEAPON.
SO CONSIDER THAT AS YOU'RE DISCUSSING.
BUT YES, THOSE ARE POSSIBILITIES.
I I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND THE CHARITY ONE 'CAUSE THAT OPENS UP TOO MANY DOORS, BUT IT IS POSSIBLE AS WELL.
UM, NO MEDICAL INSURANCE, NO RETIREMENT PAY.
THE RETIREMENT PAY WOULDN'T BE POSSIBLE 'CAUSE WE'RE CONTRACTED WITH, UH, ARIZONA STATE RETIREMENT SYSTEM.
THEY WOULDN'T QUALIFY EMPLOYEE UNLESS WE, FROM KEEPING TRACK OF THEIR HOURS AND
UH, I DON'T AND I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND, UH, MEDICAL INSURANCE.
UH, WE GENERALLY PROVIDE THAT TO ANYONE WORKING MORE THAN 30 HOURS.
RUSS? AT 35 HOURS, WHATEVER IT IS.
FEDERAL IS 30, BUT FIVE, I THINK WE DO FIVE.
IS THAT A POSSIBILITY? UH, YEAH, IT'S A POSSIBILITY.
UH, EXPENSE REIMBURSEMENT, UH, THEY ALREADY GET THAT THEY HAVE TRAVEL, UH, THAT'S IN THE, UM, THEIR RULES OF PROCEDURE.
SO WHEN THEY'VE TRAVELED
THE LEAD CONFERENCE ANNUALLY, YES.
THEY CAN GET THE, JUST THE A RS RATE FOR MILEAGE IF THEY USE THEIR OWN CAR AND THEN THEY'LL GET REIMBURSED MEALS IN THE HOTEL.
SO, UM, THEY'VE, THE ONLY LIKE FARTHER TRAVEL COUNSELORS HAVE DONE IS BEEN A COUNSELOR OR MAYOR JALO WENT UP TO UH, CANMORE CANADA, BUT HE PAID FOR ALL THAT HIMSELF.
UM, EXCEPT FOR HE TOOK THE CITY CELL PHONES USED THAT.
SO DO THEY GET CELL PHONES? IT'S AN OPTION.
UH, MOST DON'T, UH, JUST 'CAUSE YOU HAVE TO CARRY TWO CELL PHONES AND ALL YOUR CONTACTS ARE YOUR ONE ANYWAY.
AND, AND CELL PHONES ARE, COULD BE, IT'S ALREADY OFFERED.
IT'S IN, IN THEIR RULES OF PROCEDURE.
UM, NOT REALLY COUNTED TOWARDS THEIR COMPENSATION, BUT WOULD THEY BECOME PUBLIC RECORD IF THERE WERE TEXT ENTRIES ON THEM? EVEN IF THEY DO, EVEN IF THEY'RE DOING CITY BUSINESS ON THEIR PRIVATE CELL PHONE, IT'S STILL PUBLIC RECORD.
WE EITHER WAY YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE THEM.
SO THAT'S THE OTHER REASON IT'S REALLY NOT.
IT MAY BE EASIER TO TRY TO SEPARATE YOUR BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, YOUR PUBLIC EMAILS FROM YOUR PRIVATE TEXT MESSAGES.
UM, BUT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO PROVIDE 'EM WITH WHICHEVER DEVICE THEY'RE ON.
SO IF YOU'RE TEXTING WITH YOUR BEST FRIEND ABOUT ALL THESE OTHER THINGS, THEN YOU TALK ONE TIME ABOUT CITI BUSINESS, IT'S TECHNICALLY A PUBLIC RECORDS.
WE HAVE TO PULL THAT ONE OUT ANYWAYS.
WHAT ABOUT OTHER BENEFITS? UM, LIKE LIFE ASSURANCE OR YOU SAID THE TIME PAID HERE, THERE WOULD BE A 5 0 1 OR EP OR, OR GOVERNMENT EQUIVALENT OF A 5 0 4 0 1 KS.
UM, YEAH, IF THEY GET OFFICE, DO ANY OF THOSE.
I MEAN, MOST COUNSELORS, YOU KNOW, LET'S SEE.
I MEAN I HAVE VERY FEW SURPASS 12 YEARS.
LIKE YOU HAVE PERCENTAGE YOU COULD LOOK AT THE LAST 20 YEARS AND MOST ARE TWO YEARS PROBABLY THE ONLY ONE.
UM, THE ONLY ONES YOU GET ARE THE ONES WHO
[00:30:01]
ARE YEAH.DO COUNCIL A TERM OR TWO AND THEN GO TO MAYOR AND SURVIVOR TERM OR TWO.
UM, SO YEAH, BECAUSE MOST RETIREMENT PAY OR RETIREMENT HAVE A, YOU HAVE TO BE THERE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME IN ORDER TO QUALIFY FOR THE PLAN, SO MM-HMM
THAT WOULDN'T MAKE SENSE TO OFFER SOMETHING THAT, RIGHT.
WHAT IF YOU WERE ALREADY A CITY EMPLOYEE AND THEN YOU EVENTUALLY, WELL, YOU, YOU CAN'T, UH, WELL YOU MEAN NO LONGER IF YOU CAME.
LIKE YOU DID 12 YEARS AS A CITY EMPLOYEE AND THEN YOU DECIDE YOU WANTED TO RUN OR KEEP YOUR BENEFITS DURING THAT TIME.
SO YOU KNOW YOU HAVE TO RESIGN.
I'M NOT SAYING YOU WOULDN'T RESIGN, LIKE YOU WOULD END YOUR, YOUR EMPLOYMENT AS A CITY EMPLOYEE AND THEN BECOME A CITY COUNSELOR UPON YOUR RETIREMENT WOULDN'T BE PART OF THAT BECAUSE THIS IS ABOUT COMPENSATION FOR A COUNCIL PERSON AND NOT YOU GET TO ADD TO YOUR RETIREMENT IS NOT, IS THAT BASICALLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? I'M SAYING WHETHER THE YEARS WOULD KEEP STACKING IF LIKE YOU ALREADY SERVED.
OH, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LIKE YOU'RE ONLY GONNA SERVE 12 YEARS MAX OR WHATEVER AS A COUNSELOR.
12 YEARS AS, AS EMPLOYEE CONTINUE THAT SERVICE AS A COUNSELOR WOULD, COULD YOU ADD THE, IT WOULD THE YEARS CONTINUE TO ADD ON THEY WERE NOT UNDER THE ARIZONA STATE RETIREMENT SYSTEM.
SO AGAIN, UNLESS YOU WANTED TO, UM, THERE'S THE ELECTED OFFICIALS RETIREMENT THERE REALLY ONE, THAT'S THE ONE IT WOULD GO INTO.
IT WOULDN'T BE UNDER AS SRS IT WOULDN'T CONTINUE.
IT'S SEPARATE RULES BECAUSE AGAIN, AND I'VE NEVER LOOKED AT THAT MUCH 'CAUSE BEING 30 YEARS AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL.
SO THERE'S DIFFERENT COMPENSATION SYSTEM AND QUALIFICATION SYSTEM.
AND SO RUSS, AND I'LL LOOK THAT ONE UP TO SEE WHEN THAT COULD APPLY AND HOW THAT MIGHT HELP ME ANSWER SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS.
I'D BE GREAT TO KNOW THE WHOLE BREADTH OF WHAT, UM, BENEFITS ARE ADDED OUTSIDE OF CO OR AVAILABLE OUTSIDE OF COMPENSATION TO CURRENT EMPLOYEES AND WHICH ONES WE COULD POTENTIALLY TOUCH LIFE AND WE COULD GET A LIST OF LIKE, 'CAUSE I DON'T KNOW YEAH.
THE CITY ALL JUST SAY WHAT, LIKE WHAT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT BENEFITS ARE.
SO WE COULD, WE WENT ON A HIGH DEDUCTIBLE HEALTH INSURANCE PLAN AS AN HSA AND THE CITY CONTRIBUTES SOME MONEY TO IT.
SO LIKE, UH, THE CITY DOES $50,000 LIFE INSURANCE FOR EVERY EMPLOYEE.
SO I IMAGINE ADDING ON SEVEN ELECTED OFFICIAL WOULD BE PRETTY MINOR TO THAT.
ALTHOUGH THEY'RE ALREADY COVERED DNO LIKE THE, THE CITY'S INSURANCE COVERS 'EM FOR LIABILITY AND THE PERFORMANCE OF THEIR DUTIES.
YEAH, THEY HAVE, UH, UH, YEAH, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT EMPLOYEES, THE LIABILITY WOULD KICK IN FOR EMPLOYEES AND FOR THEM THEY'RE LISTED ON OUR INSURANCE POLICY AND WE DO HAVE LIKE FAITHFUL PERFORMANCE BOND, $500,000 FOR EACH OF THE COUNSELORS AND, AND THEN THE CITY DOES, UM, FOR ANY, LIKE DOES DEFEND AND IN ANY LITIGATION PURSUE, IS THERE A LIMIT TO HOW LONG YOU CAN BE ON THE COUNCIL? NO.
YOU COLLECTED THERE NO TERM LIMITS.
THE CITY OF SEDONA, BUT WE'RE NOT CONTEMPLATING THAT AS PART OF THIS COMMITTEE.
YOU COULD DO IT AS A, AS LONG AS YOU STAY ON THE LESS YOU GET PAID JUST
A HUNDRED THOUSAND FOR THE FIRST TWO YEARS AND THEN IT JUST FADES AWAY.
BUT NO, THAT'S, THAT'S BEYOND, YEAH, GENERALLY BEYOND THIS, UH, WORK GROUP'S PURVIEW RIGHT NOW.
SO IT'S THE ELECTED OFFICIAL ALMOST RETIREMENT SYSTEM.
I'VE NEVER LOOKED INTO THAT ONE.
WELL, I THOUGHT THE FIRE DISTRICT THAT SOME FIRE DISTRICTS OFFER THAT THE BOARDS THEY'RE ON.
BUT IT DOES HAVE A, THE FIREMEN THEMSELVES ARE IN THE PUBLIC SAFETY FOR ABOUT THE FIRE BOARD ALSO NOT ELECTED TO, YEAH, I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU GET, UM, ELECTED JUDGES LIKE AROUND THE LEGISLATURES IN THAT.
I DON'T KNOW WHEN YOU'VE ASKED FOR ANY OF THE RULES ON THAT ONE.
UM, 'CAUSE YEAH, IF YOU'RE INTERESTED, I BRING INFORMATION BACK THAT'S SOMETHING YOU'RE INTERESTED IN.
ANYBODY INTERESTED? I THINK WE SHOULD KNOW THE WHOLE, ALL THE OPTIONS, EVERY, EVERY OPTION OF BENEFITS WE CAN AS A WAY OF PRESENTING DIFFERENT OPTIONS.
BECAUSE ULTIMATELY THIS ISN'T GONNA BE OUR DECISION.
WE'RE MAKING A RECOMMENDATION.
SO THE MORE DETAIL WE CAN ADD TO THIS RECOMMENDATION, THE MORE OPTIONS COUNCIL HAS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE BEST FIT IS.
WELL THAT IS, THOSE WERE ALL THE IDEAS LISTED, UH, BY COUNCIL FURMAN.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON COUNCIL COMPENSATION? ALL RIGHT, WELL I'M ALWAYS HAPPY TO COME BACK, UM, OR YOU CAN SHOOT ME AN EMAIL.
UM, AND SO IF ANY MORE ISSUES COME UP AS YOU CONTINUE ALONG THIS PROCESS,
[00:35:01]
UM, HAPPY TO REVIEW IT AND ANSWER IF I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER.[5. Review of other studies and examples of compensation forms. ]
ON THE AGENDA, I BELIEVE, UH, THE REVIEW OF BOTH STUDIES AND I THINK HAS A STUDY THAT NEEDS, WELL, A STUDY OF SORTS.SO I, UH, WE, WE RAISED A LOT OF, WE RAISED A LOT OF, UH, KEY QUESTIONS LAST TIME THAT I DON'T THINK WE REALLY GOT ANSWERS TO.
SO WE JUST DO ONE THING REAL QUICK HERE.
'CAUSE MY MAC DID THE WRONG THING AND TWO DISPLAYS HERE FOR, SO I CAN SEE.
OKAY, SO WE, WE TALKED ABOUT WHAT WOULD BE THE COMPONENTS, UM, WHAT WOULD BE THE THINGS THAT WE WOULD CHECKPOINT OUR RECOMMENDATIONS AGAINST AND FACTORS THAT CAME UP SUCH AS, UH, THE POPULATION OR THE SIZE OF THE BUDGET.
I MENTIONED NUMBER OF CAPEX PROJECTS.
THAT'S KIND OF A MORE OF AN EBB AND FLOW TYPE THING.
UM, AND WE HAVE TO BASICALLY, I, I THINK WE'RE, MY INTERPRETATION OF WHAT WE'RE BEING ASKED TO DO IS TO COME UP WITH A PHILOSOPHY ABOUT THE LEVEL OF COMPENSATION RELATIVE TO CERTAIN ASPECTS, RIGHT? SO WE DECIDE ON WHAT THOSE ASPECTS ARE AND WE PRESENT THEM.
ONE OF THOSE WOULD BE THE AREA A A MI, THE, UH, THE POPULATION, THE LAND, LANDMASS, OTHER FACTORS.
UM, SO WE HAVE THESE KIND OF QUESTIONS THAT, UM, GO INTO THAT.
AND THEN THE JOB MAKEUP ALSO NEEDS TO BE INCLUDED BECAUSE THERE'S LIAISON SHIPS, THERE'S REQUIRED READING, REQUIRED READING EXPANDS AND CONTRACTS BASED ON THE NUMBER OF CAPEX PROJECTS AND OTHER THINGS THAT ARE KINDA OUTSIDE THE NORMAL OPERATIONS.
UM, AND THEN WHAT ARE THE BENEFIT BENEFITS? AND WE JUST GOT DONE TALKING ABOUT ALL THAT.
SO THAT I CAME UP WITH KIND OF A SHORT LIST OF, OF KIND OF THINGS.
WE HAVE TO GO OVER 'EM ALL NOW.
BUT, UM, I'LL UPDATE THE, I JUST TYPED THIS UP THIS MORNING, SO I'LL GET THAT TO RUSS AND YOU CAN PUT THE LINK TO THIS, BUT LIKE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S KIND OF INHERENT ASPECTS TO SEDONA AND THEN THERE'S THE CHOICES THAT WE MAKE.
AND THOSE CHOICES CAN PUT EXTRA BURDENS ON COUNCIL MEMBERS.
SO EVEN SILLY SIMPLE THINGS LIKE FOR SUPPORT FOR THE ARTS, LIKE HOW MANY ARE, YOU KNOW, THE ART BUDGET EVERY YEAR YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO EVALUATION AND PICK WHAT, WHAT THING IS GOING IN, WHAT ROUNDABOUT, YOU KNOW, OR WHATEVER LIKE THAT.
SO DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF SOME OF THESE EXTRA, LIKE SOME OF THESE COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE 3, 2, 5, 10 REALLY LIAISON SHIPS THAT THEY GOTTA KEEP UP WITH AND REPORT ON EVERY MONTH.
YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE, SO HOW MANY, HOW MANY OF THOSE THINGS ARE KIND OF, KIND OF BAKED INTO WHAT SEDONA HASS GOT COOKING.
AND THEN WE HAVE TO KIND OF DECIDE UNDER THE PHILOSOPHY CATEGORY OF, UH, WE SAW IN THE RED ROCK NEWS ARTICLE WHERE THEY KIND OF DOCUMENTED THE COMPENSATION AND COMPARED IT TO JUST POPULATION.
YOU SAW SOME OF THOSE AND WE'LL, WE'LL SEE IN THE NEXT TAB HERE.
THAT LIST I, I KIND OF PUT IN HERE AND SLICED AND DICED IT IN DIFFERENT WAYS TO KINDA GIVE US SOME THOUGHTS TO LOOK AT, UH, COMPENSATION.
BUT, UM, THEY, THE, SOME OF THE CITIES DON'T GIVE ANY COMPENSATION, SOME GIVE JUST A COMPLETE PITTANCE, SOMETHING SYMBOLIC, AND THEN IT GOES UP FROM THERE AND WE'LL SEE A DIFFERENT, UH, GROUPS THAT WE COULD USE TO COMPARE.
UM, AND THEN THERE ARE INDIVIDUAL CHALLENGES IN THE CITY THAT CREATE ADDITIONAL LOAD FOR THE COUNSELORS.
DEVELOPMENT COST IS PROBABLY PROBABLY THE PRIMARY ONE THAT SIT ON IT, RIGHT? WE HAVE HUGE TIME AND RESOURCES OF MIND SHARE TAKEN BY COUNSELORS TO DEAL WITH HOUSING COSTS.
AND THE CITIES, UH, AND THE COUNCIL BOTH HAVE DECIDED THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THEY NEED TO TAKE ON.
SO WHAT DOES THAT DO TO THE, THE LEVEL OF ASK OF A COUNSELOR OR OF A MAYOR? UH, SO REAL QUICK, I WENT THROUGH THE ORDINANCES IN ORDINANCE SUMMARIES, COULDN'T FIND ORDINANCES ONLINE PRIOR TO 2018.
SO I DON'T KNOW, RUSS, IF WE CARE TO GO BACK FURTHER FOR HISTORY TO PRESENT TO COUNCIL, BUT THIS IS WHAT I GOT FROM THE ORDINANCE SUMMARIES IN TERMS OF WHAT MAYORS AND COUNCILORS HAVE BEEN PAID IN THE PAST.
AND YOU CAN SEE IN THE LATEST ONE, 2022, THEY KIND OF GOING UP IN $600 INCREMENTS AND THEN THEY GAVE THE MAYOR AN EXTRA 620 22.
UM, SO THE, UH, UH, THIS IS FROM, UH, ZIP UH, RECRUITER.
THEY JUST, THEY HAVE A SALARY MAYOR, THEY DON'T HAVE COUNSELORS.
BUT JUST TO KIND OF GIVE A SENSE OF KINDA LIKE, UH, IN ARIZONA, WHAT DOES A MAYOR MAKE? AND HERE'S 62,000 A YEAR.
AND ON THE, I'VE FOCUSED IN ON THE 25 FIFTH PERCENTILE.
UM, YOU KNOW, IS IT AUDACIOUS TO ASK FOR THE TOP EARNERS OR 75TH PERCENTILE, OR ARE WE GONNA BE HUMBLE AND SAY THE 25TH PERCENTILE, IF YOU SAID YOU WERE GONNA BE HUMBLE AND GO YOU FOR, YOU KNOW, NEARLY 50,000
[00:40:01]
FOR THE AVERAGE CITY IN ARIZONA, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT NATIONALLY, THAT COMES INTO 53,000.SO IT'S A FEW THOUSAND MORE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NATIONAL SCALE.
BUT OF COURSE THAT'S ALL SIZES OF CITIES AND BUDGETS AND, YOU KNOW, ALL SORT OF STUFF.
SO, UM, THEN WE LOOK AT THE COMPARABLES.
I'M GONNA SCROLL DOWN TO THIS LIST FIRST.
SO THIS IS THE RED ROCK NEWS, UH, ARTICLE SORTED BY POPULATION DE DESCENDING.
AND YOU CAN SEE THE DELTA TO SEDONA ON VARIOUS, UH, CITIES.
AND I JUST, WE WON'T, UH, DWELL ON THIS, BUT HERE'S THE DIVIDING LINE.
AND THEN YOU GET DOWN TO WHERE, YOU KNOW, THINGS BELOW OUR, UH, POPULATION AND WHATNOT.
AND SOMETHING JUMPED OUT AT ME THAT I THOUGHT WAS INTERESTING IS BELOW OUR, UM, UH, POPULATION BUT HIGHER THAN OUR SALARY.
SO WE HAVE TULSA, YOUNGSTOWN,
THESE GUYS HERE, UH, HAVE LESS THAN OUR POPULATION, BUT THEY MAKE MORE BY SOME DEGREE.
AND SO YOU'RE LIKE, OKAY, TULSA, WHAT'S THE PHILOSOPHY THERE? I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S A SMALLER TOWN WITH A SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER, YOU KNOW, COMPENSATION.
SO WHAT THESE TO ME WOULD BE CITIES WE WOULD CALL UP AND SAY, HOW DID YOU GUYS ARRIVE AT THAT? WHAT WAS THE BA GO WATCH THE MEETINGS OR SOMETHING AND FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT WAS THE POINTS OF ARGUMENT TO WHY THEY WOULD MAKE MORE, GIVEN THAT THEY DON'T COMPARE TO ANY OF THE OTHER CITIES, YOU KNOW, FROM A POPULATION PERSPECTIVE, THEY COULD HAVE HOURS TO THEY MEET, THEY COULD, YEAH, HOURS, THERE COULD BE UNIQUE ASPECTS TO THEM THAT, THAT INCREASE THEIR LOAD.
SO I SLICE AND DICE THAT LIST INTO SEVERAL DIFFERENT, WHAT I CALL COMPARISON GROUPS, AND I'LL SUMMARIZE THOSE AT THE TOP.
BUT YOU HAVE ONES THAT ARE KIND OF NEAR US AND I USED AN AVERAGE, BUT EVEN THE AVERAGE IS SKEW BECAUSE WE HAVE REALLY LOW ONES LIKE CAMP VERDE AND WE HAVE WICKENBURG THAT ARE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, THEN IN GLOBE THAT ARE PRETTY LOWER WINSLOW.
BUT THEN YOU'VE GOT OTHERS THAT ARE LIKE US, PAIGE COTTONWOOD SHOW LOW.
SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT JUST NEAREST POPULATION, THE, THE PICTURES, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT MUDDY, YOU CAN THROW IN DART.
UM, THEN WE HAVE, UH, HERE IT WAS LIKE, OKAY, WITHIN A THOUSAND DOLLARS OF OUR COMPENSATION, HERE ARE THE CITIES ARE WITHIN A THOUSAND DOLLARS AND, UH, THE, THE, THE POPULATIONS ARE WILD.
SO YOU START TO SEE SOME PROBLEMS TRYING TO JUST PEG THE POPULATION.
IT'S LIKE THAT'S NOT A GUIDING LIGHT
AND ALSO YOU LOOK AT THE POPULATION AND OKAY, THAT'S NOT A GUIDING LIGHT EITHER.
UM, SO YOU'VE GOT SOME PRETTY LOW COMPENSATION IN YUMA FOR A PRETTY LARGE CITY THAT'S LIKE, OKAY, THAT DOESN'T REALLY MAP.
UM, AND THEN IT JUST KIND OF GOES, YOU KNOW, OUT FROM THERE.
IT'S LIKE, HERE'S SOME, UH, ANOTHER TRANCHE.
SO I I, I TOOK ALL THOSE TRANCHES, IF YOU WILL, OR COMPARISON GROUPS AND I KIND OF AVERAGED THEM OUT AND, AND I SAID, OKAY, HERE'S THE, THE DEBT, THE DELTA.
SO YOU KNOW, UM, THE ONES THAT WERE LOWER POPULATION HIGHER THAN THAT, THEY'RE AVERAGING AT 14,000.
AND SO THAT'S 4,000 MORE THAN WHAT WE'RE CURRENTLY MAKING FOR THE MAYOR.
UM, AND THEN THAT, THAT A THOUSAND DOLLARS AVERAGE IS, IS BY CLAIM.
AND THEN THE ONES THAT ARE SIGNIFICANTLY UP AND SUCH.
SO, UM, TO COMPARE WITH, HERE'S OUR, UH, US POVERTY LINE, OUR MAYOR, US AVERAGE FROM THE ZIPRECRUITER, AND I TOOK HALF, I SAID, JUST AS A STAKE IN THE SAND, LET'S FIGURE IT'S 20 HOURS A WEEK.
WE COULD, THIS SPREADSHEET WILL AUTO RECOMPUTE IF WE DECIDE WE WANT TO CALL IT 30 YEAR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER.
BUT WE CAN, WE CAN KIND OF JUST START AND SAY IS IF YOU LOOK AT THE HALFWAY PARK POINT FOR THE ARIZONA AVERAGE SALARY OR THE ARIZONA MAYOR AVERAGE SALARY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE AT 31, SO WE'RE KIND OF CENTRALIZING AROUND THIS $31,000 CONCEPT IF YOU JUST COMPARE TO, UH, REGIONAL AND NATIONAL AVERAGES.
UM, SO THOSE ARE KIND OF TAKES IN THE SAND THAT WE CAN KIND OF TALK AROUND AS WE GET INTO THIS.
UM, SO THEN WE LOOK AT EARNINGS.
SO, UM, THE ARIZONA OFFICE OF ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY HAS A WHOLE WEALTH OF DOWNLOADS YOU CAN GET FOR DIFFERENT, UH, SLICE AND DICE HERE OF ANNUAL EARNINGS IN ARIZONA, ALL JOBS, THESE ARE ALL ALL JOBS BY THE WAY.
WHAT SHOULD THESE PEOPLE MAKE IN RELATION TO WHAT MOST PEOPLE IN THE STATE MAKE ACROSS ALL JOBS? IS THERE SOMETHING ABOUT GOVERNMENT THAT MEANS THAT THEY SHOULD GET PAID LESS KNOWLEDGE OR EVEN MAYBE IT SHOULD EVEN BE MORE 'CAUSE THEY'RE DEALING WITH THE SALTY PEOPLE OF THAT COME UP AND BREAK THEM EVERY WEEK? UM, SO THE, WE LOOKED AT, I LOOKED AT ARIZONA YAVAPI, UM, AND COCONINO, AND WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO HOURLY RATES, YOU HAVE $35 AN HOUR, $28 AN HOUR, $29 AN
[00:45:01]
HOUR.SO IF YOU BACK THAT INTO, UH, WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE, THE HOURLY RATE FOR A MAYOR IN SEDONA IS 9 23 AN HOUR AT 20 HOURS A WEEK.
AND SO THAT'S A THOUSAND HOURS A YEAR, UM, $6 AND 35 CENTS FOR A CITY COUNTY DEALER.
SO THOSE ARE MY RIGHT MIND WOULD TAKE THAT AS A PART-TIME JOB WORKING AT POWER HUNGRY PEOPLE.
BUT I'M SAYING LIKE IF YOU WERE JUST REMOVING THAT AND JUST LOOKING AT NUMBERS AND SOMEBODY SAID, I'M GONNA PAY YOU $9 AN HOUR TO WORK PART-TIME, RIGHT? NOBODY ACCEPTS THAT
SO AGAIN, WHAT'S THE PHILOSOPHY? SHOULD IT BE WHICH FINE HERE, RIGHT? IT SHOULD BE A LIVABLE WAGE OR NOT, YOU KNOW, AND WHAT DOES THAT COME IN OUT FOR ARIZONA? AND, AND THEN YOU CAN SLICE IT DOWN MAYBE MORE TOWARDS THE COUNTY NUMBERS, JUST BECAUSE WE'RE A RURAL COUNTY AND SO THE WHOLE RURAL AREA COULD BE MAYBE A BETTER BENCHMARK THAN ARIZONA ALL OVER AND ALL UP.
UM, SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE BANS OF THE AVERAGES, SO WE TAKE THE, THE, THE ONE THAT'S MOST INTRIGUING TO ME IS THIS LOWER POPULATION, BUT HIGHER SALARY.
THEY'RE DECIDING TO PAY 1380 AN HOUR AND 9 38 AN HOUR.
STILL PRETTY LOW IN TERMS OF TARGETING THAT LIVABLE WAGE OR GETTING, YOU KNOW, EVEN UP TO THE POVERTY LEVEL.
SO, UM, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE, THE, THE, UH, CITIES THAT HAVE PAID 5,000 TO 10,000 HIGHER THAN WE ARE AT THEIR AVERAGE IS 1693 AND 9 62.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S DEFINITELY A, A PHILOSOPHICAL CAP ON WHAT GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE, YOU KNOW, COMPENSATED WITH JUST BASED ON LOOKING AT THESE DIFFERENT SLICES AND DICES JUST BASED ON, YOU KNOW, POPULATION.
BUT THESE ARE THE OTHER CITIES.
NOW, UH, TALK ABOUT SOURCES FOR A SECOND.
I USE THIS RED ROCK NEWS ARTICLE.
I WOULD MUCH RATHER HAVE THESE NUMBERS COMING FROM THE OFFICE OF ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THAT LISTED FOR MAYORS AND COUNSELORS.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A, A SALARY DATABASE FOR US THAT YOU CAN JACK INTO TO CORROBORATE THE NUMBERS THAT RED ROCK NEWS CAME UP WITH, BUT I ASSUME THEY'RE FAIRLY CLOSE AND THESE ARE NUMBERS WE CAN GO ON.
BUT BEFORE I GO TO COUNCIL, I'D WANT ACTUALLY NOT JOURNALIST NUMBERS
UM, SO $9, YOU GOT THAT NUMBER FROM UH, UH, RED ROCK, UH, KIND OF, SO, SO HERE'S THE YEARLY AMOUNTS, UH, 9,600 AND AND 6,600.
AND THEN YOU TAKE 52 WEEKS A YEAR.
NOW THE OFFICE OF ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY DOES NOT GIVE, MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT PTO.
SO THEY CALCULATE IT BASED ON THE FULL 52 WEEKS A YEAR.
BUT ONE COULD ARGUE THAT WE SHOULD BAKE IN, YOU KNOW, CHRISTMAS
BUT I DID 52 AND I TOOK 20 HOURS A WEEK AND THEN I GO, THAT'S THE NUMBER HOURS A YEAR.
SO IF YOU DIVIDE THAT, UM, YOU GET, UH, YOU GET THAT.
SO, SO THOSE WERE NUMBERS YOU PUT IN.
YEAH, NOT THAT WAS IN THE RED ROCK NEWS STORY.
UH, WELL AGAIN, I GOT LINE NINE FROM JUST, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE, WHAT KURT JUST WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE WORLD AND UH, AND THEN I GOT THE 52 AND THE 20, THE 52 I GOT FROM THE OFFICE OF ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY AND THE 20 WAS JUST STRONG STAB AT WHAT I THINK IS COUNSELING WORK EVERY MONTH.
SO WE WANT, YEAH, SO IF YOU, IF YOU LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU GO AND YOU SAY THAT'S 30
AND WE KNOW PETE DEEP DIVES ON ALL THE PACKETS, RIGHT? ANOTHER OTHER COUNSELORS DON'T.
SO IS THE EXPECTATION THAT YOU GIVE SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE IN TERMS OF THAT ATTENTION AND WHAT'S THAT PER HOUR, PER WEEK? HOW MANY HOURS PER WEEK IS THAT? SO IF WE JUST DECIDE WE WANNA DO 30, I CAN LEAVE IT AT 30 RIGHT NOW AND WE CAN, AND I, AND I THINK THAT'LL BE PART OF THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM ABOUT CONSIDERATIONS FOR WHAT WE WANT TO FIND OUT.
UM, SO THE REST OF THIS ON THERE IS UH, JUST SOME, SOME OTHER THINGS LIKE HERE'S THE COUNTY POPULATION GROWTH FOR GAVA.
PINE COCONINO IS FROM THE CENSUS BUREAU, UM, INCLUDING THEIR 2025 ESTIMATES.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH POPULATION'S GONNA FACTOR 'CAUSE WE JUST SAW IT'S REALLY MUDDY, RIGHT? IT'S LIKE WE HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT ARE FACTORS ARE WE GONNA PEG TO THAT REALLY MAKE SEDONA UNIQUE AND OR YOU KNOW, WHATEVER.
SO I LIKE THE BUDGET, YOU KNOW, IS A, IS A SOMETHING TO GO LOOK AT NEXT AND SAY FOR ALL THE CITIES THAT WE HAD HERE, WHAT'S THEIR BUDGET AND WHAT'S THEIR PAYMENT RELATIVE TO THE BUDGET? AND, AND THEN UH, ARE THERE OTHER FACTORS IN SEDONA THAT WE NEED TO CONSIDER, SUCH AS THE LANDLOCK NATURE OF IT TO DRIVING UP THE DEVELOPMENT COSTS.
UM, IS THAT A FACTOR? A NUMBER OF CAPEX PROJECTS? LIKE WE HAVE SDO, SEDONA IN MOTION HAS BEEN JUST ONE LITANY OF, YOU KNOW, PROJECTS AFTER THE OTHER, UH, OUT IN ITEM AND WE HAVE SOME BIG PROJECTS COMING UP LIKE UH, BYPASS ROAD.
SO YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE AMOUNT OF
[00:50:01]
DEALING INTO THE WEEDS OF DIFFERENT PROJECTS AND ASPECTS OF THE CITY FACTOR INTO A GREATER OR HOUR SPENT, YOU KNOW, LOAD THAN THESE OTHER CITIES THAT ONLY HAVE, YOU KNOW, A FEW THOUSAND PEOPLE.WELL AND NOT ONLY CAPEX PACKETS, I'LL SPEAK FOR MY, I'M ON PLANNING AND ZONING WHEN WE DO NOW IT'LL ONLY BE LIKE REZONES AND THINGS AND WE HAVE DEVELOPMENT PUR REVIEW IS PART OF THAT.
I MEAN JORDAN LOST PROJECT WAS A 700 PAYCHECK IT AND THAT WENT TO COUNCIL TOO.
SO LIKE THERE'S WILL THAT STILL GO TO COUNCIL NOW? SUBJECTIVE REVIEWS GONE.
IF IT WAS IN A ZONE CHANGE, IT WOULD, IF IT WAS A ZONE CHANGE.
YEAH, THE ZONE CHANGE IS RIGHT.
AND FROM THE LAST PROJECT WE SAW, I THINK WE CAN EXPECT TO SEE A GOOD CONTENT OF DEVELOPMENT REVIEW IN ZONE CHANGES BECAUSE WE HAD A FAILURE OF A ZONE CHANGE BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAVE A DEVELOPMENT PERSPECTIVE.
WELL IN WESTERN GATEWAY WILL BE, IF THE INITIATIVE FAILS AND THERE IS HOUSING, THEN THAT'LL BE A ZONE CHANGE.
UNLESS ANSWER THAT WOULD WE HAVE TO ZONE CHANGE WESTERN GATEWAY.
IT'S PLANNED DEVELOPMENT RIGHT NOW.
SO YEAH, LIKE THERE ARE A TON OF OTHER BESIDES CAPEX POTENTIAL FOR HUGE PACKET READS.
I'D LOVE TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHAT THOSE ARE.
'CAUSE I, I HAD A FEW I PUT DOWN HERE, BUT LIKE, YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE BESIDES CAPEX? SO WE'RE LIKE GO INTO THE NUMBER OF PACKETS, DEVELOPMENT REVIEW SLASH ZONE CHANGES.
OBVIOUSLY WE'RE IN A MOMENT OF LIKE WE'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT GONNA SEE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW ANYMORE EVER.
BUT LIKE I DO THINK THERE'LL BE A COMPONENT OF DEVELOPMENT IN ZONE CHANGES FOR SURE.
THAT SO, AND IT DEPENDS ON THE PROJECT, RIGHT? WELL NOT ALL OF THEM ARE SEEING ON THE PAGES THANKFULLY FOR YEAH.
OH BUT IT HAPPENS, RIGHT? SURE.
UM, SO THEN THE QUESTION OF THE GROUP IS WHAT OTHER FACTORS DO YOU WANT ME TO DEEP DIVE ON AND I CAN GO GET MORE INFORMATION ABOUT? YOU KNOW, THE NEXT ONE OBVIOUSLY IS BUDGET.
LIKE WE SHOULD JUST, I AGREE THESE, DO WE WANT TO GET 'EM FOR ALL THE CITIES THAT WE'RE IN THE RED ROCKS NEWS ARTICLE OR JUST SOME OF THESE TRANCHES THAT, THAT I IDENTIFIED OF NEAREST POPULATION OR LOWER POPULATION, HIGHER SALARY OR WITHIN A THOUSAND OF WHAT WE PAY.
DO WE WANT TO, HOW MANY CITIES DO WE WANNA CHASE AFTER I GUESS? 'CAUSE WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO BE DIVING INTO, YOU KNOW, WEBSITES AND THINGS AND YEAH, I DON'T THINK PEOPLE, UH, ARE REALLY INTERESTED IN UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU, WHAT YOU GET IN CALIFORNIA.
SO YOU KNOW, OR WHAT YOU GET, YOU KNOW, IN THE CITY OF SCOTTSDALE I THINK PEOPLE THINK PRETTY LOCAL HERE.
SO THEN YAVAPI, MAYBE COCONINO AS WELL.
FLAG STAFF FLAGSTAFF AS A PARENTS FOR A FEW THINGS.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S LEGIT TO, TO NARROW IT TO NORTHERN ARIZONA IN MY OPINION AS OPPOSED TO, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, YEAH, I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING TO BE SAID TO LOOK AT SIMILAR BUDGETS THOUGH.
AND I'M NOT SURE WE'RE GONNA SEE A SIMILAR BUDGET.
I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GONNA SEE A SIMILAR WE'VE GOT YEAH, WHICH RIGHT.
TOO MUCH NOW YOU GO OUTSIDE THE STATE.
BAIL AND ASPIRIN ARE TWO I'M INTERESTED IN.
'CAUSE LIKE TOTAL TOURIST TOWNS LIKE YEAH.
FIND THE TOURIST TOWNS, THE TOP FIVE JACKSON HOLE, JACKSON HOLE, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER.
ESPECIALLY ONES THAT ARE LANDLOCKED BY FOREST, YOU OR WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, LIKE TRY TO COME UP WITH SOME COMPS SET OR DEFENDABLE.
UM, SO I'LL BE LOOKING AT THAT.
I'LL BRING SOME OF THOSE TO YOU.
I DID WANNA TAKE ONE QUICK NOTE OF, UH, FLAGSTAFF.
SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT FLAGSTAFF, FLAGSTAFF HAS 76,831 PEOPLE RIGHT? AND THEY JUST JACKED UP THEIR, THEIR COMPENSATION PRETTY BIG TO 38,020 5,000.
UH, WHAT DOES THAT COMPARE ON A PROPORTIONAL BASIS TO SEDONA BASED ON POPULATION? UH, WE WOULD BE PAYING THIS MUCH TO OUR MAYOR COUNSELOR.
LET ME MAKE THAT ZOOM IN HERE.
UM, SO YEAH, THIS, THIS IS WHAT THE PROPORTIONAL MATH WORKS OUT.
SO IF YOU TAKE 35,000 MULTIPLIED BY A LOT BETTER, OUR POPULATION DIVIDED BY LESS, IT WOULD BE LESS.
RIGHT? SO WE SHOULD PROBABLY SHY AWAY FROM LOOKING AT FLAG STEP AS A COMP IN MANY CONTEXT.
SHY AWAY FROM LOOKING AT POPULATION AS A YES, I AGREE.
BANDS LIKE, I THINK WE DROP LIKE EVERYBODY UNDER BLANK AND EVERYBODY OVER BLANK.
RIGHT? ESPECIALLY THAT'S A GOOD POINT TO REALLY LOOK AT BUDGET BECAUSE THERE IS SOMETHING I COME BACK TO THINKING ABOUT THE SPEND PER PERSON.
RIGHT? WHICH WE WILL NOT FIND A COMP TO I THAT'S BEEN VAIL VEIL MAYBE LIKE, BUT INVOICES IN ARIZONA WE WON'T FIND A BUDGET.
PER CAPITA, LIKE WE SEE, I AGREE.
SO WE HAVE, WE HAVE A DEFENSIBLE STORY ABOUT WHY NOT POPULATION CORRECT.
HAS A FOCUS WITH THIS INFORMATION HERE.
THE QUESTION, SO TO YOUR, YOUR POINT, YOUR QUESTION IS, WHAT SHOULD THE BANDWIDTH BE? SO I WENT UP TO 12,000 AND DOWN TO 7,000 FOR SAYING NEAREST POPULATION.
DO WE WANNA WIDEN THAT? I, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THAT BANDWIDTH KNOWLEDGE OF BUDGET.
I MEAN, JUST, I HIT THAT TO KEEP A HIP SLIDE OF POPULATION.
'CAUSE WE KNOW WE'RE GONNA BE ASKED ABOUT IT.
SO WE TALK ABOUT IT IN THE REPORT, RIGHT.
[00:55:01]
OR OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.AND WE SAID, WE LOOKED AT POPULATION AND WE WENT TO THIS BAND AND WE CONCLUDED IT'S NOT A FACTOR JUST ON POPULATION.
SO DO YOU LIKE 7,000 TO 12,000? DO YOU WANNA WIDEN THAT? I THINK THAT'S FUNNY BECAUSE WE, WE'RE A POPULATION, WE, WE HAVEN'T BEEN 7,000 IN A LONG TIME, BUT WE HAVE BEEN CLOSE TO 12 BEFORE.
AND IF YOU GO DOWN TO THAT DIVIDING LINE, UM, UH, SO YOU, YOU COULD GO A LITTLE BIT HIGHER AND SCRAPE IN CHINO VALLEY COOL RIDGE.
UH, YOU COULD GO DOWN TO FOUR OR FIVE.
YEAH, I THINK WE SHOULD WIDEN IT A HAIR JUST TO TRY TO GET THOSE SIMILAR, LIKE PAYSON IS A GOOD SIMILAR MOUNTAIN TOWN HAS A GOOD, YOU KNOW, HAS SOME TOURISM, WHICH IS UP IN THE 15 RANGE.
SO WE'D HAVE TO GO TO 16 TO CASON.
I THINK EXTEND A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I MEAN, I THINK REALLY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS WE'RE LOOKING AT A, WE'RE LOOKING FOR A METHODOLOGY AND WE WANT TO SAY MISS THIS AS THE METHODOLOGY BECAUSE HERE'S TOWNS WITH SIMILAR POPULATION, BUT ONE EIGHTH OF THE BUDGET THAT WE SPEND BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, ALL THE REASONS WE KNOW.
SO I THINK WE WANT, THE REASON WHY WE JUST MISSED IT FROM A FUNCTIONAL PERSPECTIVE AND THE HOUSING PROJECTS WE HAVE COMING UP, PLUS THE WESTERN GATEWAY, PLUS POSSIBLY AT THE DELLS, YOU COULD SEE US GETTING INTO 15,000, YOU KNOW, 10, 20 YEARS.
OUR NEXT AGENDA ITEM IS, UH, CONSIDER, OH, UH, DID YOU HAVE A, UH, A STUDY LAB? NO, BUT I WANTED TO TALK, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT METHODOLOGIES.
UM, ONE THAT I THINK IS ACTUALLY SOMEWHAT SUPPORTED.
UM, I HAD THE, THE THOUGHT ABOUT TYING IT DIRECTLY TO MEETING INCOME OF TOWN, BECAUSE MEETING BEING, IF YOU TAKE A HUNDRED PEOPLE AS THE EXACT 50TH PERSON, IT WOULD MEAN THAT FOR THAT 50% OF THE POPULATION WOULD BE GETTING A PAY INCREASE BY GIVING, AND 50% WOULD BE DOING A SACRIFICE.
AND THAT NUMBER AUTOMATICALLY SHIFTS OVER TIME AS INFLATION AND ALL THOSE THINGS HAPPEN.
UM, BUT
AND FOR THE OTHER 50 IT WOULD BE A SACRIFICE.
SO DO YOU LOOK AT ALL JOBS OR JUST MAYORS OR JUST COUNSELORS? UH, I ONLY, THAT'S, THAT'S CERTAINLY A FURTHER QUESTION.
I ONLY LOOKED AT BASICALLY JUST WHAT THE CENSUS DATA SAID, WHICH I THINK WAS HOUSEHOLD WAS LIKE, I THINK 73,000.
AND THEN I THINK INDIVIDUALS 59 AS OF LIKE 2024, I, I'M NOT GONNA STAND BY THOSE NUMBERS.
BUT THEY BASICALLY ALIGN SOMEWHAT WELL WITH YOUR AVERAGES OF MAYORS IN, UM, IN BOTH ARIZONA, BUT ALSO HERE THEY GET THE YELLOW BLOCK.
YEAH, THE YELLOW BLOCK ARE KIND OF WHAT, RIGHT.
UM, AND, AND AGAIN, IT'S STILL A FUNDAMENTAL PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION OF, YOU KNOW, $63,000 A YEAR IS NOT ENOUGH TO INCENTIVIZE A BUSINESS OWNER.
IT'S ENOUGH TO INCENTIVIZE SOMEONE, A TYPICAL PERSON, RIGHT.
WHICH IS A QUESTION WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS IS, ARE WE TRYING TO JUST LOOK FOR WHO'S ALREADY LEADING IN THE COMMUNITY OR ARE WE LOOKING FOR ANYONE IN THE COMMUNITY AND WE WANNA MAKE THEM MORE GENERIC.
YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE TO LOCK THIS DOWN, THESE NUMBERS DOWN BY 25%, IF YOU'RE AT 30 HOURS A WEEK MM-HMM
SO IT'S NOT, YOU'RE NOT COMPARING TO A FULL-TIME LATE TRADE.
YOU, YOU GOTTA GO 75% OF THESE NUMBERS.
AND THAT WOULD BE, AND IN MY THOUGHTS, I'M ASSUMING THAT WE'RE JUST GOING TO, WE'RE GOING TO SAY THE MAYOR'S A FULL-TIME 40, LIKE 40 HOUR A WEEK AT LEAST, JUST BECAUSE IT HAS HIGHER REQUIREMENTS.
BECAUSE CAN YOU, HAVE YOU DELEGATE HOW MANY HOURS A WEEK A COUNCIL PERSON WORKS? NO, I THINK HE'S NOT SAYING THAT WE'RE GONNA REQUIRE THEM TO NO.
WE COULD SAY, I GUESS THEY'RE ELECTED OFFICIAL.
MAYBE YOU COULD, AND YOU COULD SAY FOR YOUR PAY, YOU HAVE TO WORK AS MANY HOURS.
I COULD, UH, MAKE CLOCK, CLOCK.
NOW ALL CLOCK ISSUES GO TO HR AND I DON'T WANT IT.
I, I THINK FOR ME, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HAVE BEEN CONCERNED ABOUT IN THE CITY PARTICULARLY IS THAT THE CITY IS REALLY GOOD AT PAYING A LIVABLE WAGE, BUT THEY'RE NOT REALLY GOOD AT ENCOURAGING BUSINESSES TO PAY A LIVABLE WAGE.
AND SO I SEE A HUGE HOW DO YOU ENCOURAGE THAT? WELL, FLAGSTAFF IS, DIDN'T THEY JUST RAISE IT TO 25 BUCKS AN HOUR? SOMETHING LIKE THAT? YEAH.
AND, AND THE BUSINESS, I, OKAY, SO I'M A BUSINESS OWNER.
MY CO PATRIOTS, BECAUSE I'M A RE LEARNER
[01:00:01]
ARE IN FLAGSTAFF, BECAUSE THAT'S MY, THAT'S WHERE PROUD IS.AND UH, AND, AND I'M VERY PRO RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE, BUT THE BUSINESS OWNERS THAT WERE PROPONENTS OF THAT ARE REALLY KICKING THEMSELVES AND THEY'RE GONNA, THEY'RE SEEING MAP, UH, PERSPECTIVE MATCH CLOSURE THIS YEAR WITH THE CHANGE IN JANUARY.
AND I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW, LIKE AS A BUSINESS OWNER, I'M LIKE, I WOULD LOVE TO PAY ALL OF MY EMPLOYEES MORE.
I MEAN, HOW WOULD THE CITY, THE CITY, THE CITY GIVE ME A FINANCIAL INCENTIVE? DOES BECAUSE, WELL, THERE THAT IS A POSSIBILITY.
ESPECIALLY WHEN TAXES ARE INVOLVED.
WELL, THE GIFT THERE THAT YOU COULD ENCOURAGE IT'S SALES.
IT'S SALES TAX IS THE ONLY THING I PAY TO THEM.
BUT, BUT TO, TO YOUR POINT, LIKE THE MONEY WOULDN'T INCENTIVIZE BUSINESS OWNER.
AGAIN, I'M NEVER GOING, I DON'T THINK I'M EVER GONNA RUN.
BUT THAT MONEY WOULD ALLOW ME TO PAY SOMEONE FOR THE THINGS THAT I DO.
FOR YOUR, SO LIKE THAT, THAT DOESN'T INCENTIVIZE ME.
BUT WHAT IT DOES IS IT MAKES IT SO I DON'T HAVE TO, IT DOESN'T COST ME MONEY MAYBE TO SERVE.
SO IT'S LIKE THERE IS AN INCENTIVE THERE FOR PEOPLE WHO, FOR THE BALANCE, WHICH I THINK IS WHAT WE'RE GOING FOR, IS THE BALANCE OF LIKE INCENTIVIZING PEOPLE WHO NEED THE MONEY, INCENTIVIZING THE PEOPLE WHO MAYBE DON'T NEED THE MONEY, BUT NEED THE TIME.
IT IS COVERING A LOT OF BASIS, WHICH I THINK IS EXACTLY OUR GOAL.
I MEAN, AND I DON'T THINK, LIKE, I MEAN, I LIKE THE IDEA OF TYING IT TO THE MEDIUM JUST BECAUSE IT FEELS LIKE THERE'S SOME INCENTIVE THERE FOR THE COUNCIL TO CARE ABOUT THE OVERALL INCOME OF THE POPULATION.
WHAT AMOUNT DOES THE CITY HAVE? WHAT IMPACT THE COUNCIL TRULY HAVE ON THE, THE PAY OF THE CITY BEYOND JUST MINIMUM WAGES, WHICH THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, IT HAS DOUBLE EDGED SWORD EFFECT, WHICH IS OKAY, WE, WE INCREASED THE MINIMUM WAGE TO $500 AN HOUR.
BUT NOW ALL THE BUSINESSES ARE CLOSED, SO YOU'RE EFFECTIVELY CANCELING IT OUT EXCEPT FOR LIKE, SORT, NO, NOT SCENARIO AT ALL.
BUT, UM, SO, BUT I LIKE THE AT LEAST LOOSE INCENTIVE.
I THINK IT'S A REALLY GOOD WAY OF LOOKING AT IT, IS THAT IT'S, I DON'T THINK IT'LL INCENTIVIZE THEM TO INCREASE PAY IN THE CITY, BUT IT GIVES A VERY DEFENSIBLE REASON FOR THE NUMBER.
AND IT GIVES THEM A WAY TO TRACK LIKE, OH, ALL OF OUR WAGES ARE ON A DOWN SLOPE.
BECAUSE ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY'RE HAVING TO PAY ATTENTION.
WELL, WE DON'T HAVE TO, BUT MAYBE THEY DO PAY ATTENTION BECAUSE ALL OF A SUDDEN IT'S LIKE, OH, YOUR PAY IS CHANGING BASED ON MEDIAN.
AND THEY GO, OH, IT'S GOING DOWN.
WHY? AND I, FROM THE PUBLIC PERSPECTIVE, I THINK THAT ACTUALLY IS A REALLY EXCELLENT POINT.
'CAUSE EVERY TIME THERE'S AN ARTICLE TALKING ABOUT IT, RIGHT, IT BASICALLY REINFORCES THE POINT THAT IT'S DIRECTLY LINKED TO HOW THE CITY IS DOING MM-HMM
RIGHT? HOW THE PEOPLE, IT'S AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ISSUE.
AND NOT THAT I THINK OF MONEY AS THE, THE BEACON OF ALL THINGS, BUT IT'S IMPORTANT IF YOU WANNA LIVE IN THIS WORLD, CERTAINLY HELPS.
UM, DID ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY OTHER THINGS THEY WANT, UM, SURVEYED BY? OKAY.
ANY, ANYTHING ELSE WE WANNA MAKE RUSS DO? JUST TO RECAP WHAT I'VE SAID SO FAR WAS THAT IF WE KNEW, UH, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE, UH, SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE, THE MISSING DATA FROM THE RHETORIC NEWS ARTICLE, THERE WAS A LOT OF ONES THAT ARE NO RESPONSE.
UM, SO THERE'S KIND OF POPULATION OF ALL CITIES IN ARIZONA JUST TO BE COMPLETE.
AND THEN THERE'S BUDGET FOR ALL CITIES IN ARIZONA.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S IN A DATABASE YOU HAVE SOMEWHERE OR, YEAH, I CAN, I CAN GET THE BUDGET, THE, THE STUFF THAT I HAVE FOR COMPENSATION IS I ALWAYS GET EVERY YEAR.
SO YOU CAN ACTUALLY LIKE, SHARE THAT WITH YOU DIRECTLY AND SEE POPULATE YOURS WITH THE ACTUAL FROM 25.
SO, SO PUT THAT ON THE SHAREPOINT AND ALL THAT.
RUS, I DON'T, YEAH, BARACK AND I TRIED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS LIKE A DECADE AGO, AND AT THE TIME JOHN MARTINEZ HAD A SPREADSHEET.
HE PULLED IT UP IN FRONT OF US, IF I REMEMBER 10 YEARS AGO, THAT WAS BUDGET AND PAY.
AND SO I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT CAME FROM.
BUT LIKE, IT HAD ALL OF THE THINGS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AND I DON'T THINK HE PUT IT TOGETHER FOR US.
THAT'S WHAT THAT HEATING WAS ABOUT.
I MEAN, IF YOU COULD BREAK OUT BUDGET BY CAPEX VERSUS OPERATING EXPENSE VERSUS LABOR EXPENSE, SOMETHING MAY EXIST SOMEWHERE.
THAT MAY GET US TO DATE AND THEN WE UP TO DATE IT.
THAT'S, WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF HE'LL REMEMBER THAT CONVERSATION YOU DID.
OH BOY DO I
THAT WAS STRANGE KNOWING JOHN A. LITTLE BIT.
UH, SO I COULDN'T FIND THE EXACT INFO, BUT I, I SAW THE ARTICLE RECENTLY, LIKE ABOUT THE, THE, ALL THE HIGH PAID EMPLOYEES WITHIN THE CITY, HIGHER PAID EMPLOYEES WITHIN THE
[01:05:01]
CITY.WHAT'S THE MEDIAN INC, UH, PAY FOR ALL CITY EMPLOYEES? DO WE HAVE THAT? THAT WOULD BE, I'LL LOOK IT UP.
AND I'M CURIOUS ALMOST WHAT THE LOWEST PAID FULL-TIME PERSON IS.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU GET IS YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE PAID PER HOUR OR PER SITUATION, LIKE JUDGES, PROAM JUDGES THAT SHOW UP IN THERE THAT DIDN'T WORK 20, 80 FULL-TIME HOURS.
SO PER HOUR THEY WORK A COUPLE HOURS.
WE REIMBURSE THEM FOR THOSE AND PAY THEM FOR THEIR TIME.
BUT I THINK, SO THOSE ARE THE HIGHEST PER HOUR RATES.
SO THEN THERE'S THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO, OKAY, WELL WHAT DOES A NORMAL PERSON MAKE THAT'S WORKING A FULL-TIME WAGE.
AND THEN THERE'S PART-TIME WAGES.
PART-TIME WAGES GO DOWN ALL THE WAY TO MINIMUM WAGE OBVIOUSLY.
BUT EVEN IN THAT WE DON'T PAY, UM, LIFEGUARD'S MINIMUM WAGE.
WE TEND TO PAY ANYWHERE FROM 1817, $18 AN HOUR BECAUSE THAT'S JUST ABOVE ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO INCENTIVIZE THEM TO COME TO DRIVE HERE.
VERSUS THEY LIVE, A LOT OF 'EM LIVE IN COTTONWOOD OR CAMP VERDE.
SO THAT'S THAT INCENTIVE DIFFERENCE.
SO THAT'S AS LOW AS OUR SYSTEM STARTS OUT.
AND THEN ALL THE WAY UP THROUGH THE CITY MANAGER MINIMUM, MINIMUM WAGE IS 14 AND SOME CHANGE 1435.
BUT YEAH, THAT PAID PROFILE IS WIDE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LOWEST PAID AND FOR WHAT THEY DO VERSUS WHAT, UH, SPECIFICALLY A CONTRACT WITH A PRO TEM WOULD LOOK LIKE PER HOUR.
AND THEN AGAIN, THEY WORK RARELY, BUT WHEN THEY'RE NEEDED, THEY FILL IN, UM, ALL THE WAY THROUGH A FULL-TIME EMPLOYEE AND CITY MANAGER.
UH, MOSTLY LIKE THE FULL-TIME OF THOSE SALARIED.
WELL, NO, THEY'RE HOURLY, BUT THEY'RE CONSIDERED A 2080 OR OTHERWISE.
AGAIN, YOU HAVE OFFICERS RIGHT, WHO MAKE AN HOURLY WAGE, BUT THEY'RE WORKING MORE THAN THAT 20, 80 FULL-TIME IN A YEAR.
IT EQUALIZES IF YOU JUST LOOK AT HOURLY RATES.
AND IT MAKING SURE THAT THERE'S SOME COMPARABLE ANALYSIS FOR THE PRO TEMS. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE HOURLY, BECAUSE THAT WORK A COUPLE HOURS AND MAKE, WHY AREN'T COUNSELORS VIEWED ON THE LEVEL OF COUNSEL IN TERMS OF THE IMPORTANCE OF THE FUNCTION OF THE GOVERNMENT.
LIKE THAT PHILOSOPHICALLY WE HAVE TO DECIDE WHERE DO THEY RANK BETWEEN JANITOR AND JUDGE? YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT JOBS ARE YOU GONNA TAKE OUT OF THE HOURLY RATE ME TO COMPUTE A MEDIAN? LIKE ARE THEY MORE AS IMPORTANT AS A CITY MANAGER OR, 'CAUSE THERE'S ONLY A COUPLE.
I CAN PULL THOSE OUT SO YOU CAN, YOU HEAR YOU HEAR WHAT I'M SAYING? BUT I CAN SHOW THAT TOO AND THEN YOU GUYS CAN MAKE SOME CHOICES ON IT.
I THINK PHILOSOPHICAL, THAT'S A HARD THING TO DISCUSS, I THINK.
I THINK THE, THE VALUE OF A JOB TITLE IS, IS A STICKY THING FOR US TO DISCUSS, ESPECIALLY AS PEOPLE WHO AREN'T INTERIOR TO THOSE JOBS.
JUST AS, UH, WELL THE ELECTED NATURE REALLY THROWS A MONKEY WRENCH IN THAT.
I THINK WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS SOME MEDIAN AND AVERAGE THAT'S FROM CITY NUMBERS, MAYBE EVEN NOT SUPER DETAILED, LIKE MEDIUM AND AVERAGES, AND THEN JUST COMPARE IT TO CITYWIDE AND COUNTYWIDE MEDIA AVERAGES INSTEAD OF DIVING INTO POSITIONAL PAY IN THE CITY.
BECAUSE I JUST, I SEE THE POTENTIAL FOR GETTING THE LEADS AND THE POTENTIAL FOR LIKE OTHERING JOBS IN A WAY THAT IS PROBLEMATIC.
IS IT, IS IT BAD TO ASK THE CURRENT COUNSELORS WHAT THEIR PHILOSOPHY? LIKE WE CAN COME UP WITH FIVE PHILOSOPHIES AND SAY, PICK ONE AND HERE'S THE NUMBERS, YOU KNOW, SO IT'S LIKE, WHAT DO WE WANNA DO THERE? WELL, I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE
[6. Consideration of a potential survey of former council members. ]
NEXT AGENDA ITEM, WHICH IS CONSIDERATION OF A POTENTIAL SURVEY OF FORMER COUNCIL MEMBERS AND YOU COULD SLASH CURRENT COUNCIL MEMBERS.SO AT THE LAST CONVERSATION, AND AGAIN, PETE HAD LED THAT CONVERSATION AND HAD DONE, AND I POSTED WHAT HE HAD DONE MORE WITH, UH, AN INDIVIDUAL, UH, RELATED TO FLAGSTAFF'S EXPERIENCE.
BUT THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO AT LEAST GET SOME BACKGROUND INFORMATION, TIME SPENT, ALL THE THINGS THAT YOU WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT, BEING ABLE TO GET A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND AND, AND MAYBE EVEN GOING BACK TO THIS PHILOSOPHICAL, HOW THAT MIGHT HAVE CHANGED NOT ONLY FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE, BUT HOW THEY THINK THAT MIGHT HAVE CHANGED HISTORICALLY OR SOME OF THE OPTIONS FOR QUESTIONS.
AND I KNOW WE'RE RUNNING UP AGAINST TIME.
SO RELATIVE TO THE COMMITMENT, UH, TO GET OUT IN AN HOUR AND A HALF, UM, I, I DON'T MIND SENDING OUT AND HERE'S A DRAFT LIST OF QUESTIONS.
SEE WHAT IT'S LIKE MAYBE SPECIFICALLY TO, TO ASK YOU, IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT TO DO? IF I COULD COME UP, IF WE MAGICALLY COULD COME UP WITH A GOOD LIST OF A DOZEN QUESTIONS TO ASK AND WE WERE ABLE TO GET AHOLD OF A GOOD POPULATION OF SAY, 15, 20 FORMER COUNCIL MAYORS, WHATEVER, AND GET SOME RESPONSES AND PUT TOGETHER
[01:10:01]
THAT INFORMATION.IS THAT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO DO? YEAH, I, I KNOW I REALLY APPRECIATE SUCH A THING.
SO PETE, I JUST ASKED THE QUESTION ABOUT, AS OPPOSED TO GOING IN DIVE IN DETAIL, 'CAUSE I KNOW WE'RE UP AGAINST THE CLOCK HERE, UM, AS TO IF WE GOT A LIST OF A DOZEN QUESTIONS AND WE'RE ABLE TO ASK 15, 20 OR SO FORMER COUNCIL MAYOR, UH, IF THEY WOULD LIKE IT, THAT RESPONSE IN A DATABASE, THEY SAID YES.
SO WHAT I'LL DO FOR TIME IS I WILL SEND THAT OUT.
NOW, BACK TO HIS POINT, WHEN I SEND OUT AN EMAIL AND YOU RESPOND, I'M GONNA TRY TO PUT YOU IN A BLIND CARBON COPY, THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU'RE NOT ALL GETTING IT, BUT IT ALSO MEANS IT KEEPS YOU FROM MISSING AND REPLYING ALL AND SAYING, OH, I LIKE THIS OR LIKE THAT AND CREATING A PROBLEM.
SO WITH THAT, I CAN CREATE THAT.
YOU CAN PROVIDE THE FEEDBACK TO THE QUESTIONS.
IF THERE'S ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OR EDITS OR THINGS THAT YOU WANT TO DO THAT LET ME KNOW AND THEN I CAN PUT TOGETHER A DRAFT AND KICK IT BACK OUT AND DO THAT OVER THE NEXT COUPLE WEEKS.
AND THEN WE CAN CONFIRM THAT I CAN TRY TO GET SOME DATABASE, I DO HAVE DATABASE FROM THE CITY CLERK TO THE BEST OF OUR KNOWLEDGE.
UH, AND DO THAT KIND OF REACH OUT ONCE WE GET TO A, A REAL RELATIVELY FINAL UH, LIST OF QUESTIONS.
THAT BEING SAID, I CAN WORK TOWARDS THAT IN THE NEXT MEETING.
EVERYBODY GOOD? I HAVE ONE THING TO SAY.
SO I'M SURE ALL OF US HAVE COME TO HOW FRUSTRATING IT IS TO DEFINED A COMP AT ANY LEVEL.
THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR THE LAST 20 YEAR, 30 MINUTES.
I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS THE RIGHT COUNTERPOINT, BUT THE WAY I'VE LIKE STARTED THINKING ABOUT IT IN THE LAST MONTH OR TWO, LIKE ONE GOING ONLINE TRYING TO FIND IT LIKE THIS MADDENING, I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT IT FROM THE END RESULT OF THE PERSON.
SO I'VE BEEN LIKE, OKAY, A PERSON NEEDS $2,000 ROUGHLY A MONTH FOR RENT.
IT'S 1975 AVERAGE TO RENT 100 APARTMENT IN SEDONA.
SO YOU EXTRAPOLATE THAT YOU NEED ROUGHLY $80,000 A YEAR.
IF IT'S 40 TO 40 HOUR WORK WEEK SPLIT 20 HOURS FOR THE CITY, 20 HOURS FOR A JOB, YOUR 20 HOURS, $20 AN HOUR AT A $20 JOB, $20,000.
YOU NEED ROUGHLY $60,000 TO MAKE THAT DIFFERENCE BECAUSE HUDS AS YOUR RENT IS LONG AS SUPPOSED TO BE 30% OF YOUR PAY.
SO 30% OF 80 NOT, I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S THE RIGHT WAY, BUT I JUST CAN'T, LIKE ALL OF THESE COMPS ARE MADDENING BECAUSE NOTHING IS APPLES TO APPLES.
SO IT'S ALMOST LIKE INCIDENT OUT BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE.
SO IT'S ALMOST LIKE WE HAVE TO, DON'T HAVE TO, BUT MAYBE CONSIDER HOW WE MAKE IT WORK FOR SOMEBODY VERSUS TRY TO COMPARE IT TO SOMEBODY ELSE AND JUSTIFY IT.
WELL I THINK IT IN OVERALL, YOU KNOW, THE KNOWLEDGE IS POWERFUL MM-HMM
AND IT HELPS TO, YOU KNOW, EVALUATE.
SO IT LOOKS, DOES IT PASS THE SMELL TEST? RIGHT.
SO I FEEL THE MORE WE HAVE YES.
BETTER THE MORE WE THAT THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO RIGHT.
BUT I THINK ALL OF THAT INFORMATION JUST HELPS US GET TO THAT.
BUT IT'S ALMOST LIKE TRYING TO FIND A YEAH.
SOMEBODY SO THEY CAN STILL WORK PART-TIME IN ANOTHER JOB, WORK 20 HOURS AT THE CITY AND MAKE IT WORK.
AND WE, I'M, I THINK I'M HEARING WE WANNA COME UP WITH AT LEAST A COUPLE OTHERS YES.
AND THEN WE DECIDED IN ABSENT BE HERE THAT IT WAS 30 HOURS A WEEK.
DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THAT? HIGH OR LOWER? WE'RE PLAYING THE 30 HOURS A WEEK UNTIL WE HEAR FROM PREVIOUS COUNSELORS.
AS THE REAL HOW MANY HOURS YOU REALLY SPEND AND WE KNOW YOU ARE
WOULD YOU FEEL THAT 30 IS THE RANGE AND FAIR TODAY? OKAY.
I CAN, I CAN MEET WITH PETER TO TAKE THROUGH THE SPREADSHEET.
THIS, THIS IS RECORDED, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN SEE THE SCREEN AS I WAS TALKING, TAKING YOU THROUGH THIS ANALYSIS THAT I CAME UP SO I CAN GET WITH YOU SEPARATELY AND KIND OF GO OVER THAT.
WELL WE'RE, THE CLOCK IS TICKING.
SO WE HAVE FUTURE MEETING DAY AND FUTURE AGENDA THAT I THINK SOME OF OUR FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS, SOME OF THE INFORMATION THAT RUSSELL PROVIDES, POSSIBLY ANYTHING ELSE SEAN FINDS OUT.
ANYBODY ELSE? AND I SAY THIS, IF YOU CAN, IF YOU BRAINSTORM AT 3:00 AM AND YOU THINK OF SOMETHING, LET ME KNOW.
AND THAT'S JUST AN OPPORTUNITY, UH, IF THAT IS THE CASE TO, TO ADD TO THAT, DO WE HAVE A STATEMENT AS A GROUP WHY WE'RE ENJOYING THIS?
[01:15:01]
I MEAN WHAT OUR PHILOSOPHY IS PER SE, OR WHAT OUR DIRECTION IS? WELL, THAT IS IN THE MINUTES FROM US.I THINK WE WILL GET TO THE POINT WHERE WE NEED THAT.
AND WHEN WE TALK TO WHAT CAN BE A VERY CONTENTIOUS COMMUNITY WITH A VERY CONTENTIOUS TOPIC, THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO THINK THIS IS CRAZY, THEY'RE GONNA PICK IT APART.
SO YOU MIGHT HAVE IT, I MISSED LAST MEETING.
IT WE IN A SERIES OF STATEMENTS.
BUT IT'S HARD TO CONSOLIDATE IN A STATEMENT.
IT'S NOT REALLY, I THINK EVERYBODY FROM THE FIRST ONE, AND I'M GONNA PARAPHRASE FOR THE MOST PART, EXCEPT WE'RE ALL HERE BECAUSE WE FEEL THAT COMPENSATION IS A PRIORITY FOR GETTING A WIDER VARIETY AND COMMITTED COUNSEL.
NOT JUST AM I WRONG TALKING ABOUT RIGHT.
IF WE COULD COME UP WITH SOMETHING STATEMENT LIKE THAT.
BUT I THINK AS WE DIVE INTO THE PHILOSOPHIES OF OUR PERSPECTIVE, YEAH.
BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S HOW WE'RE GONNA MEET OUR END GOAL IS WE'RE GONNA HAVE A LAID OUT PHILOSOPHIES, KIND OF PICK THE ONE THAT WE FEEL LIKE IS THE WAY TO GO AND USE THAT AS OUR RECOMMENDATION.
WE CAN USE THAT PHILOSOPHY AS PART OF THAT SENTENCE.
YOU KNOW, THAT WE AREN'T, WE ARE AN ORANGE, WE ARE AN ORANGE.
AND THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE A DEEPER AVAILABILITY OF KNOWLEDGE ON THE COUNCIL, WHATEVER THAT LOOKS LIKE.
SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD DEFINITELY CONTINUE TO DISCUSS AS A SIMPLIFIED SENTENCE OF LIKE, WHEN WE GO TO COUNCIL, THAT'S WHERE WE START.
AND THAT'S, AND THAT WAS OUR MOTIVATION.
SO AS A FUNCTIONAL QUESTION, WHEN THIS IS ALL DONE, HOW IS THIS ULTIMATELY PRESENTED TO THE CITY COUNCIL? IS ONE OF US OR ALL OF US EXPECTED TO GO TO COUNCIL TO PRESENT THESE FINDINGS? OR WOULD YOU BE THE ONE PRESENTING IT? I THOUGHT WE GAVE IT TO ANNETTE 'CAUSE SHE WAS THE ONE THAT PUT US ALL BASICALLY HERE.
WOULDN'T SHE BE THE ONE TO PRESENT IT? IT'S LIKE A COUNCIL WORK COMPENSATION WORK GROUP.
SO, UM, YOU GUYS CAN, YOU GUYS CAN MAKE THE THAT DECISION, BUT YEAH, ULTIMATELY THE, THE RECOGNITION SHOULD COME FROM DIRECTLY FROM THIS WORK GROUP.
AND WE CAN DECIDE HOW THAT PRESENTATION LOOKS LIKE.
AND OFTENTIMES IT'S THE STAFF LIAISON WHO DOES THE PRESENTATION FOR GROUPS.
THIS NO, I, I APPRECIATE THAT.
WE'RE HERE TO SUPPORT WHICHEVER WAY YOU END UP.
I THINK ULTIMATELY HOW AND WHEN YOU PRESENT A BUDGET WORK GROUP, IF YOU SAW WHAT THEY DID MOST RECENTLY, THERE WERE MEMBERS THAT SPOKE UP AND BROUGHT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THAT I THINK IS DARE I SUGGEST BETTER THAN THE BUREAUCRAT, UH, IN THE ROOM.
SO FROM MY EXPERIENCE OF WATCHING THOSE, I AGREE.
I THINK HAVING US PROVIDES IN CONTEXT, UH, AVOIDS PERSPECTIVE BIAS FROM, FROM THE STAFF PRESENTATION IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO OR ADD, UM, SO WELL SOME EXTENT WE REPRESENT THE GENERAL POPULATION.
SO, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS GIVE US THE ABILITY TO BE THE SPEAKER, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, THAT THIS WASN'T SOMETHING STAFF COUNCIL DECIDED ON THEIR OWN.
WE ARE THE GENERAL PUBLIC AND SOMEWHAT, SO WE'RE RUNNING
[7. Discussion/possible ideas for future meeting/agenda items and set date. ]
OUT OF TIME.I'M GONNA ASK, DOES ANYBODY HAVE SOME DATES OR DID WE LIKE THE WAY RUST DID IT LAST TIME? OR PICKS AND SAYS EVERYBODY CALENDAR? WELL, I, IF IT'S POSSIBLE BECAUSE WE ARE HERE IN TOTE NOW TO AT LEAST GUESSTIMATE A DATE THAT'S OUT FAR ENOUGH THAT WE CAN DEAL WITH IT.
WE ARE MEETING ON A MONDAY, RIGHT.
BUT WE'VE MET ON TUESDAYS AND I THINK WEDNESDAYS.
I THINK THE EARLIEST WE EXPRESSED TO START WOULD BE AT THIS POINT I DO KNOW THAT YOU HAVE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF WEEKS OUT THAT YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BE HERE TILL WHEN YOU ARRIVED TODAY.
THE WEEK OF JUNE 8TH IS MY LAST WEEK.
SO IF WE DID JUNE 15TH, WE COULD DO EIGHT 30 ON JUNE 15TH.
ARE YOU GONNA BE OUT OF TOWN? OUT OF TOWN? SUMMER.
SO IS IT HOW LONG? AT LEAST A MONTH.
WELL, AS YOU CAN SEE, I CAN DO THE TEAMS AND YOU CAN, AND BEGIN.
AND I THINK KYLIE DID A GREAT JOB OF JUST BEING ABLE TO HEAR, I KNOW IT'S SOMETIMES DIFFICULT TO PARTICIPATE IN A LARGE WAY.
BUT AT LEAST WE COULD CONTINUE THAT.
AND GIVEN THAT I COULD GET THE TEAMS OUT TO YOU SO YOU COULD YEAH, I'M PERFECTLY EASY TO, I MEAN, I HAVE WIFI ANYWHERE, SO I I AM AVAILABLE BUT MAYBE NOT IN PERSON.
SO IF WE DID THE EIGHT 30 OR EIGHT 30, WHAT'S THAT? I'M INCORRECT.
I THINK MY INFUSIONS GOOD TILL JULY WORKS.
I, BUT IF, OKAY, SO IF, IS THAT NEXT YEAR? JULY? WELL, NO, WE, WELL, THAT'S A LONG TIME
[01:20:01]
TO WAIT, BUT WE PUSH THE DAYS.IS MORNINGS THE ONLY OPTION FOR EVERYBODY? WELL, IT HAS BEEN SCHOOL'S OUT, SCHOOL'S OUT BY THIS WEEK.
SO I DON'T THE SAME STRAINTS I LIKE LATER NINE 30 I LIKE LATER.
SO IF WE DID NOON, BECAUSE HE'S, HE'S AVAILABLE AFTER 10.
SO IF WE DID 10 TO 1130, WE DID THAT AT ONE POINT.
IS THAT, IS THAT, I LIKE THAT.
IT IS THE WEEK OF JUNE 15TH LAST.
SO, SO THE WEEK OF, OR SO IT WOULD BE THE FOLLOWING WEEK.
YOU WOULD BE AVAILABLE 22ND OF A BOUND.
SO IT WOULD BE JUNE 20, BUT THAT'S JUST FOR THE EARLY, AND I, I THINK I WAS THE ONLY EARLY PROPONENT BECAUSE OF SCHOOL, BUT SCHOOL IS OUT THIS WEEK, SO LIKE, WHATEVER MEANT IS EVERYBODY COOL ABOUT 10 30 REGARDLESS OF 10 TO 1130 IF WE, IF WE DID THAT 10 ON THE 15TH.
YEAH, THERE'S A, THERE'S A MEETING IRONICALLY AT NOON HERE THAT I'M AT.
SO IF WE GOT DONE AT 1130, I COULD TRANSITION TO THAT.
SO, OKAY, SO EVERYBODY GOOD? THAT'S FOR THE WHAT DATE AND TIME? JUNE 15TH, 10:00 AM TO 11:30 AM OKAY.
AND THEN I WILL, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SPEND TIME FINDING OUT WHAT JASON IS, CORRECT? YES.
WELL, UH, SO IF THERE'S NO OTHER, WE CAN ADJOURN THE ACTION ITEMS FOR THE NEXT MEETING.
DO WE, WE, WE, THAT YOUR REPORT, I, I'M GONNA DO THE ECONOMIC, UH, THE, THE BUDGET BASED COMPARISON.
ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT ME TO CHASE DOWN? OKAY.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, ADJOURN,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR DOING THAT FOR US ALL GOING THE LONG HAUL.
CAN YOU GO OUT TO A VOTE FOR A BUDGET SPEND ON THE CAPEX PROJECT? MAYBE A PER SE, BUT SO THE ONLY WAY BUDGET.