* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.
          [00:00:01]
          ADJUST THOSE ROOM. 
          [1. CALL TO ORDER/PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE/MOMENT OF SILENCE]
OKAY. 
          GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE. 
          I'M CALLING THIS MEETING TO ORDER AT 4 29 AND A HALF ON WEDNESDAY, MAY 27TH, 2026. 
          CAN YOU PLEASE JOIN ME IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, MY PLEDGE, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE, LIBERTY ALL. 
          AND NOW A MOMENT OF SILENCE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          MADAM CLERK, CAN YOU READ THE ROLE PLEASE? MAYOR PLU. 
          HERE. 
          VICE MAYOR FOLTZ. 
          PRESENT. 
          COUNCILOR DUNN. 
          HERE. 
          COUNCILLOR FURMAN. 
          PRESENT. 
          COUNCILOR HOSNI. 
          HERE. 
          COUNCILOR KINSELLA. 
          PRESENT. 
          COUNCILLOR FAF. 
          EXCUSED. 
          OKAY. 
          [3.a. AB 3315 Discussion/direction from Council on the proposed changes to SCC Article 15 for the updated building codes.]
WE HAVE SPECIAL BUSINESS TODAY, AB 33 15. 
          DISCUSSION DIRECTION FROM COUNCIL ON THE PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE CITY'S BUILDING CODES, SCC, ARTICLE 15 FOR THE UPDATED BUILDING CODES. 
          AND STEVE? YES, I'LL PERMIT YOU TO SPEAK. 
          HOPEFULLY IT'LL BE, UH, I CAN'T, I COULDN'T COME BACK. 
          I'M SORRY, . 
          THAT WAS PRETTY GOOD. 
          THAT WAS PRETTY GOOD. 
          UM, I APPRECIATE THAT. 
          THANK YOU, MADAM MAYOR, VICE MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS. 
          UM, I AM HERE, UH, AS PART OF A SIX YEAR CYCLE OF CODE UPDATES, UM, TO PRESENT TO YOU MY PROPOSALS, UH, FOR THE NEW CODES, BUILDING CODES. 
          UM, AND, UH, THIS IS JUST FOR DISCUSSION ONLY. 
          UM, I'M NOT ASKING FOR ANY KIND OF APPROVALS, UH, AS, AS, AS PART OF THE WORK SESSIONS. 
          SO, UM, I HOPE TO, UH, BRING BACK FROM THIS MEETING, UH, SOME GUIDANCE ON, UH, ON WHAT I'VE PRESENTED, WHAT YOU MAY WANT OR, OR MAY NOT WANT TO APPROVE IN THE FUTURE, AND THEN COME BACK IN JULY, UH, TO HOPEFULLY, UH, UH, ASK FOR, UH, YOU TO RULE UPON IT. 
          SO, UM, I'LL GET STARTED WITH MY PRESENTATION. 
          UH, CAN YOU HEAR WELL ENOUGH? MM-HMM . 
          IS MY CLOSE. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, SO AS I STATED, THIS IS A SIX YEAR PROCESS THAT, AND UNFORTUNATELY IT TURNED LONGER. 
          UM, BUT, UH, THE CURRENT BUILDING CODES THAT WE HAVE ARE THE INTERNATIONAL, UH, CODE COUNCIL CODES. 
          AND THESE CODES ARE USED THROUGHOUT, NOT JUST THE UNITED STATES, BUT THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, WHICH IS WHY IT SAYS INTERNATIONAL. 
          AND, UM, I WAS ASKED THAT ONE, UH, MEETING, WELL, IF IT'S AN INTERNATIONAL CODE, HOW COULD WE BE USING IT HERE IN ARIZONA? WELL, THE WAY THAT CODES ARE MADE, THEY ARE GEARED TOWARDS EACH SPECIFIC AREA BASED UPON CLIMATE, BASED UPON SNOW LOADS, UH, SEISMIC LOADS, WIND LOADS. 
          SO THE CODES ARE ACTUALLY, UH, CAN BE FIT INTO THE EVERY SPECIFIC AREA WITHIN, NOT JUST, LIKE I SAID, NOT JUST THE UNITED STATES, BUT THE WORLD AND ARE USED THROUGHOUT THE WORLD. 
          UM, SO CURRENTLY, UH, WHAT I AM GOING TO PROPOSE, UH, TO ADOPT, UH, IS THE INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE, THE INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE. 
          UM, AND I'LL STOP THERE. 
          THE INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE IS A COMPLETE CODE FOR THE BUILDING OF SINGLE FAMILY AND TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS, AS OPPOSED TO THE COMMERCIAL CODE, WHICH HAS A BUILDING CODE AND MECHANICAL CODE, SEPARATE, SEPARATE BOOKS, MECHANICAL CODE, ELECTRICAL CODE, ALL THOSE. 
          SO, UM, THAT'S WHY YOU SEE SO MANY CODES HERE FOR THE BUILDING OF A RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE. 
          WE JUST USE THE IRC, THE INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE. 
          UM, SO I JUST WANTED TO KIND OF CLARIFY THAT. 
          UM, SO WHAT I'M READING THROUGH ALL THESE OTHER CODES, THE PLUMBING CODE, THE MECHANICAL CODE, THE FUEL GAS CODE, ENERGY CONSERVATION CODE, THE EXISTING BUILDING CODES, THE, UH, THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE WILL, WILL KIND OF KEY ON THAT LATER. 
          AND THE SWIMMING POOL AND SPA CODE, THOSE ARE ALL EITHER SPECIFIC TO THEIR GENRES OR PART OF THAT WHOLE, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MULTIFAMILY OR COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS. 
          SO THE IRC HAS ALL THAT WITHIN THE BOOK ITSELF. 
          [00:05:04]
AND THEN, UM, THE LAST CODE THAT WE'RE GOING TO, EXCUSE ME FOR A SECOND. 
          YES, CHARLOTTE, DO WE ASK QUESTIONS AS YOU GO ALONG? YEAH. 
          YOU WANNA WAIT FOR, PLEASE, PLEASE. 
          SO LET ME JUST SAY BACK TO YOU WHAT I THINK I HEARD. 
          YEAH. 
          SO WE'RE ONLY LOOKING RIGHT NOW TO UPDATE THE RESIDENTIAL CODE AND POTENTIALLY, UH, YOU'RE SHAKING YOUR HEAD ALREADY. 
          NO. 
          SO THANK YOU FOR THAT QUESTION BECAUSE, UM, I, IF, IF YOU DON'T, DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT, I, I DID NOT PORTRAY THAT PROPERLY. 
          SO, UM, I'M SORRY FOR THAT. 
          UM, THESE ARE ALL OF THE CODES THAT WE ARE LOOKING TO ADOPT. 
          OKAY. 
          I JUST WANTED TO, I KNOW THAT THE RESIDENTIAL CODE IS WHAT WE USE THE MOST. 
          OKAY. 
          MOST OF OUR PERMITS ARE BASED UPON RESIDENCE, SINGLE FAMILY, RESIDENTIAL, UH, PERMITS AND CONSTRUCTION. 
          SO I, I JUST WANTED TO, AS YOU'RE LOOKING AT ALL THESE CODES, AND THEN WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE IRC, UM, I WANTED YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE IRC IS AN ALL ENCOMPASSING BOOK WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CONSTRUCTION OF SINGLE FAMILY. 
          AND SO COMMERCIAL, UM, IS NOT COVERED IN THIS COMMERCIAL IS COVERED IN THE INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE, THE INTERNATIONAL PLUMBING CODE, THE INTERNATIONAL MECHANICAL CODE. 
          SO, AND ON AND ON AND ON. 
          SO, UNLIKE THE RESIDENTIAL CODE, EACH OF THOSE DISCIPLINES HAS ITS OWN CODE BOOK. 
          SO YOU'RE, YOU JUST WANT TO HIGHLIGHT FOR US THE RESIDENTIAL, BECAUSE YOU THINK THAT'S THE MOST INTERESTING. 
          WELL, I, I, I WANTED TO KIND OF GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION OF, UH, WHEN I'M TALKING ABOUT THE IRC, IT'S NOT JUST A BUILDING CODE, IT'S A BUILDING CODE, AN ELECTRICAL CODE, A MECHANICAL CODE. 
          AND, UH, SO, AND THAT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM THE REST OF THEM, WHICH ARE SPECIFIC TO THEIR DISCIPLINES. 
          I HOPE NOT TO CONFUSE MORE , BUT THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION. 
          AND THEN THERE IS, UM, THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE, WHICH IS NOT A PART OF THE INTERNATIONAL CODE COUNCIL'S SUITE OF CODES. 
          THIS IS WRITTEN BY THE NFPA. 
          UH, AND IT'S ACTUALLY, UH, A STANDARD IDENTIFIED AS NFPA 70, BUT IT IS THE, UH, ELECTRICAL CODE THAT IS MOST USED AGAIN, UH, UH, IN, WELL, I SHOULDN'T SAY AGAIN BECAUSE, UH, CANADA HAS THEIR OWN BUT MOST USED IN THE UNITED STATES. 
          UM, AND, UH, SO THAT IS WHAT WE USE FOR OUR ELECTRICAL REQUIREMENTS ON COMMERCIAL AND MULTI-FAMILY CODES. 
          SO I TALKED ABOUT, THIS IS A SIX YEAR CYCLE, UM, BACK IN 2018, UM, UH, WHICH WAS ONE YEAR AFTER I STARTED HERE WITH THE CITY. 
          UM, I STARTED THE PROCESS OF ADOPTING THE 2018 I CODES AND THE 2017 NATIONAL ELECTRIC CODES. 
          UM, AT THE TIME WE WERE UNDER THE 2006 I CODES. 
          SO WE WERE FOUR CODE CYCLES BEHIND THE TIMES. 
          AND, UM, AT THAT POINT IN TIME, WE HAD A GENTLEMAN'S AGREEMENT WITH ALL THE CITIES IN THE VALLEY, UM, THAT WE WOULD ADOPT THE EIGHTEENS AND BE ON A SIX YEAR CYCLE. 
          AND, UH, WHEN, AND, AND, AND WE ALL DID. 
          AND WHEN IT CAME TO THE 2024, WHICH IS NOW THE SIX YEAR, UM, AND OH, BY THE WAY, THESE, THESE CODES GET A, UH, APPROVED EVERY THREE YEARS. 
          SO THERE'S A NEW ADDITION OF CODES THROUGH THE INTERNATIONAL CODE CYCLE EVERY THREE YEARS. 
          SO SIX YEARS IS TWO CYCLES. 
          UM, SO IN 2024, UH, ALL THE VERDE VALLEY COMMUNITIES ALONG WITH YAVAPAI COUNTY, UH, AND THE COMMUNITIES ACROSS, UH, UH, OVER THE MOUNTAIN, UH, PRESCOTT, PRESCOTT VALLEY, CHINO VALLEY, UH, GOT TOGETHER AND OVER A YEAR, YEAR AND A HALF SPAN, MET, UH, EVERY MONTH, UH, TO, UH, DISCUSS THESE NEW CODES, UH, TRY TO GET OUR AMENDMENTS AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO EACH OTHER, UM, BECAUSE WE WANTED THAT CONSISTENCY. 
          WE WANT A CONTRACTOR, OR AN ARCHITECT OR A DESIGNER TO UNDERSTAND THAT NO MATTER WHERE THEY'RE WORKING IN THE VERDE VALLEY OR EVEN OVER THE MOUNTAIN, THE BASE CODE IS GONNA BE THE SAME. 
          THINGS THAT ARE GONNA CHANGE ARE GONNA BE THE AMENDMENTS THAT EACH CITY THINKS ARE SPECIFIC TO THEM. 
          UM, BUT AT LEAST THEY KNOW THE BASE CODE IS GONNA BE, IN THIS CASE, IF WE ADOPTED THE 2024 CODES. 
          UM, SO, UH, THE, YES, SINCE 
          [00:10:01]
YOU'RE JUST REFERENCING AMENDMENTS, I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THAT. 
          YES. 
          ROUGHLY HOW MANY AMENDMENTS DO WE HAVE THAT TAKE OUR, UH, PROPRIETARY REGULATIONS ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT IS SHARED AMONG OUR, UH, SISTER MUNICIPALITIES? GOOD QUESTION. 
          GOOD QUESTION. 
          UM, PROBABLY, UH, IF, IF WE, WE PROBABLY HAVE ABOUT 50% MORE, I WOULD SAY, THAN SOME. 
          OKAY. 
          BUT SOME ARE COMING FROM, UH, HOW DO I PUT THIS? UM, THE CONSTITUENCY IS DIFFERENT AND THEY UNDERSTAND THAT AND, AND STATED THAT THROUGH THE PROCESS. 
          AND, UM, A LOT OF, AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO BE, UH, UH, SOUNDING AS IF I'M LOOKING DOWN, BUT IT'S JUST, UH, IT WAS AGAIN, STATED THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS THAT YEAH, WE'VE ADOPTED THIS CODE, BUT WE DON'T REALLY ENFORCE THAT. 
          WE DON'T REALLY ENFORCE THIS, WE DON'T REALLY ENFORCE THAT. 
          SO, UM, WE ARE, AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN AT A LITTLE BIT HIGHER LEVEL OF ENFORCEMENT THAN MOST OF THE COMMUNITIES. 
          GO AHEAD. 
          'CAUSE YOU MAY CLEAR UP. 
          SO WHEN YOU SAY THAT IS THIS, ALL OF THE VERDE VALLEY IS ON THE SAME PAGE AND IT'S THE VERDE OR YAVAPAI COUNTY IN AGGREGATE IS 50% MORE THAN SOME OTHER COMMUNITIES, OR SEDONA IS, WHAT DID SEDONA IS, IS MORE THAN OTHER. 
          UM, UH, AND IT'S, IT'S A REALLY TOUGH QUESTION. 
          AND IF I COULD BACK UP, BECAUSE, UM, WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUR AMENDMENTS COMPARED TO COTTONWOODS, WE'RE VERY CLOSE. 
          WE'RE VERY CLOSE. 
          WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUR AMENDMENTS COMPARED TO CHINO VALLEY, MORE OF A DIFFERENCE. 
          SO IT'S A REALLY HARD QUESTION TO ANSWER BECAUSE IT IS NOT AN ACROSS THE BOARD. 
          SORT OF ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I ASK IS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE KEEP, AND YOU KNOW THIS, WE KEEP HEARING HIS CRITICISMS ABOUT HOW EXPENSIVE IT IS TO BUILD IN SEDONA MM-HMM . 
          BECAUSE WE ARE SO DIFFERENT THAN OTHER AREAS. 
          BUT WHEN I HEAR THAT WE ARE PART OF A, YOU KNOW, VERDE VALLEY WIDE, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU KNOW, GROUPING THAT IS WORKING ON HAVING CODES THAT ARE CLOSE TO EACH OTHER, I'M TRYING, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHERE THAT CRITICISM COMES FROM, THAT WE ARE MORE EXPENSIVE THAN IF YOU SAID WE'RE CLOSE TO COTTONWOOD IN TERMS OF THE CODES. 
          SO I, I KNOW I'M PROBABLY JUMPING A LITTLE BIT AHEAD. 
          NO, BUT THAT'S SUCH A RESONANT QUESTION THAT WE'RE FACED WITH AT ALMOST EVERY SINGLE MEETING. 
          SO I WILL SAY THAT WHEN PEOPLE SAY WE'RE SO EXPENSIVE, IT'S NOT ALWAYS THE BUILDING CODES THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. 
          YOU KNOW, WE DO HAVE OTHER CODES THAT ARE INVOLVED AND, UM, THERE MAY BE MORE, UH, OR, OR, OR LESS OF A COST TO SUPPLY, SAY IN PRESCOTT PRESCOTT VALLEY. 
          UM, THERE IS MORE CONSTRUCTION THERE. 
          AND SO IT MAY BE THE COST OF SUPPLIES AND THE NUMBER OF CONTRACTORS. 
          AND, UM, THE SCHEDULING, WHICH, UH, PLAYS INTO, INTO COSTS ARE CHEAPER BECAUSE OF THAT. 
          WE ARE KIND OF AN ISLAND OUT HERE. 
          UM, SO SOMETIMES, UH, THOSE COSTS ARE SLIGHTLY HIGHER. 
          SO IT, IT'S NOT ALWAYS THE BUILDING CODE THAT'S DICTATING THAT COST OF CONSTRUCTION. 
          UM, WHEN I LOOK AT, UH, LET ME, I CAN PROBABLY PULL THIS OUT HERE. 
          SO WHETHER IT'S OUR CODES, UH, THEY'VE TALKED ABOUT OUR PERMIT FEES AS WELL, THAT OUR PERMIT FEES ARE, ARE KILLING, YOU KNOW, THE, THE BUILDING OF, OF, UH, AFFORDABLE HOMES. 
          SO I, I ASKED, UH, STAFF TO GET ME THE NUMBERS OF THE LAST 20 HOMES THAT HAD CERTIFICATES OF OCCUPANCY HERE. 
          AND WE IDENTIFIED THE VALUATIONS THAT WERE TOLD TO US BY THE CONTRACTORS ON THE APPLICATION. 
          WE THEN WE'RE ABLE TO, WITH THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, IDENTIFY A SQUARE FOOT COST THAT THE CONTRACTOR'S TELLING US THAT THEY ARE, ARE USING. 
          UM, AND THEN I LOOKED AT OUR TOTAL FEES, WHICH INCLUDE OUR DIFF FEES, OUR SEW, OUR WASTEWATER CAPACITY FEES, OUR BUILDING PERMIT FEE, AND OUR PLAN REVIEW FEES. 
          AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE TOTAL FEES, UM, THE TOTAL FEES AVERAGED ON SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. 
          THE LAST 20 THAT WE ISSUED C OF OS FOR, UH, AVERAGED 
          [00:15:01]
$33,212 FOR THE TOTAL FEE TO GET A PERMIT. 
          WHAT WAS THE RANGE THERE? DO YOU HAVE THE YEAH, THE RANGE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, SO THE RANGE WAS TOP, LOOKS LIKE 57,000, AND THE LOW POINT WAS 20,000. 
          OKAY. 
          BUT WHEN YOU FACTOR OUT THE ACTUAL PERMIT FEE, THE BUILDING PERMIT FEE, AND THE BUILDING PLAN REVIEW FEE, THAT CAME OUT TO AN AVERAGE OF ONLY 14% OF THAT TOTAL COST. 
          AND OUR FEES AND THE WAY WE DO OUR FEES HAS NOT CHANGED SINCE, WELL BEFORE I EVEN GOT HERE. 
          SO TO ME, IT'S NOT THE PERMIT, THE BUILDING PERMIT FEES THAT ARE ONEROUS, THOSE HAVEN'T CHANGED. 
          AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE CONTRACTORS ARE TELLING US AS THEIR VALUATION, I CAN TELL YOU THAT THEY'RE LOW, BUT THEY'RE LOW WHEN THEY'RE KEEPING THOSE PERMIT FEES DOWN. 
          AND, AND BECAUSE WE'RE STILL ABLE TO MEET BUDGETARY CONSTRAINTS, WE HAVE NOT ADJUSTED THAT. 
          BUT WHAT ABOUT THE FEES WE PASSED THE DIFF FEES. 
          SO THE DIFF FEES AND THE WASTEWATER CAPACITY FEES, WHICH WE DON'T HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER, THOSE ARE 85%, 86% OF THE FEES. 
          WHEN PEOPLE SAY MY BUILDING PERMIT COSTS SO MUCH, IT'S THE DIFF FEES AND THE WASTEWATER FEES, THE PERMIT FEE. 
          AND WHAT WAS THAT NUMBER THAT YOU SAID? 33,000? UH, THE AVERAGE FOR THE LAST 20 HOMES WAS $33,212. 
          THANK YOU. 
          I'M SORRY. 
          32 OR 33. 
          33,000. 
          AND THEN, UM, THE TOTAL AVERAGE OF THE BUILDING PERMIT FEE WITH THE PLAN REVIEW FEE WAS $4,684. 
          SO AGAIN, THAT AVERAGES OUT TO 14% OF THE TOTAL COST OF A PERMIT FEE. 
          AND THAT, THAT PERMIT FEE LOAD OR, OR THAT LOAD OF FEES IS ABOUT WHAT PERCENT OF THE CONS? TOTAL CONSTRUCTION? TOTAL CONSTRUCTION, THAT DEPENDS ON WHAT NUMBER YOU USE. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, IF YOU USE THE NUMBER THAT WE'RE GIVEN BY THE CONTRACTORS, THAT AVERAGE VALUATION IS $141 PER SQUARE FOOT, PRETTY LOW. 
          UM, WE KNOW THROUGH MEANS COST DATA, UM, AND OTHER SOURCES THAT IT'S MORE LIKE THREE TO $500 PER SQUARE FOOT ON YOUR TYPICAL HOME. 
          AND IN TALKING TO SOME OF OUR CONTRACTORS, THEY WON'T TAKE A, A JOB UNLESS IT'S A CUSTOM OF A THOUSAND OR DOLLARS PER SQUARE FOOT OR MORE. 
          UM, SO, AND I'M SORRY, I MAY NOT HAVE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION. 
          WHAT WAS THE BASE QUESTION THERE? I WAS WONDERING THE, THE, THE, THESE FEES, THIS FEE LOAD IS ABOUT WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE OVERALL COST OF . 
          OH, OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT, UH, LET ME SEE SOME OF THIS, UH, SO THE VALUATION, LET'S SAY, OF A $500,000 HOME, I'M SORRY, WITH A HOME WITH A VALUATION OF 500,000, OUR FEE WAS ONLY 4,763. 
          SO WE'RE, LOOK, CHARLOTTE, CAN YOU USE YOUR MIC? YES. 
          . 
          UM, I'M SORRY. 
          WHEN YOU SAY YOUR FEE, YOU MEAN THE PERMIT FEE AND THE, AND THE PLANNING FEE, NOT THE FEE OR THE CORRECT. 
          CORRECT. 
          BUT THEY LOOK AT IT AS A CITY, SO, YES, CORRECT. 
          AND THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT WE HAVE NOT ADJUSTED THAT FEE SINCE, WELL, BEFORE I'VE BEEN HERE, BUT WE DID ADJUST THE DIFF FEE. 
          CORRECT. 
          ADJUSTED DIFF FEE. 
          YES. 
          UM, BUT AS FAR AS WHAT WE CAN DO, UH, IN BUILDING SAFETY, UH, WE HAVE NOT, YOU KNOW, RAISED THAT, UM, IN PROBABLY 16 YEARS. 
          SO I'M JUST TRYING TO STILL GET TO THE COMPARATIVE COST COMMUNITY TO COMMUNITY. 
          YEAH. 
          SO I DON'T WANNA KEEP PICKING OUT COTTONWOOD. 
          SO LET'S PICK UP CAMP VERDE. 
          . 
          UM, IF YOU WERE GONNA BUILD A HOUSE 2000 SQUARE FEET IN SEDONA, AND YOU WERE GONNA BUILD A HOUSE 2000 SQUARE FEET, YOU ALREADY HAVE THE LAND, THE LAND IS EXISTING, DON'T FACTOR A PURCHASE PRICE IN FOR THE LAND, YOU'RE GONNA BUILD ON LOTS THAT EXIST IN CAMP VERDE AND SEDONA 2000 SQUARE 
          [00:20:01]
FEET EACH. 
          HOW WOULD THE PERMIT, HOW WOULD THE FEES BREAK DOWN? HOW WOULD THEY COMPARE MUNICIPALITY TO MUNICIPALITY? I WISH I HAD THAT ANSWER FOR YOU. 
          SO DO I, I DID NOT , I DID NOT DO COMPARISONS OF BUILDING PERMIT FEES ACROSS, UH, ALL THE CITIES, BUT I CAN GET THAT INFORMATION FOR YOU. 
          YEAH. 
          BECAUSE IF IT'S THE SAME, IF THE SAME CODES REPLYING AND THE SAME FORMULA SINCE THE MUNICIPALITY HAS ALL TRIED TO WORK TOGETHER AND GET ON THE CYCLE AND GET INTO SOME SORT OF, OF BROTHERHOOD OF, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT IT, I, I, I WANNA UNDERSTAND HOW THE COSTS DO BREAK DOWN. 
          WHAT IS THE DIFFERENTIAL? I CAN FIND THAT OUT FOR YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          YOU'RE WELCOME. 
          AND THEN STEVE, I WAS TO TRY TO PUT A NAIL ON WHERE WE STARTED ON THIS THING. 
          THIS WAS A MULTI-JURISDICTIONAL REVIEW COMMITTEE, BUT EACH JURISDICTION CAN ADOPT THE BITS SEPARATELY. 
          WE DON'T, WE'RE NOT ALL TAKING THE SAME ACTION. 
          YOU'RE ALL IN THE SAME MEETING, BUT EACH JURISDICTION CAN ADOPT DIFFERENT THINGS. 
          IS THAT CORRECT? THEY'VE ADOPTED THE SAME BASE CODES, BUT THEY CAN ADOPT DIFFERENT AMENDMENTS, AMENDMENTS TO THOSE CODES. 
          YES. 
          AND WE HAVE MORE AMENDMENTS GENERALLY THAN TO SOME, LIKE I SAID, WE ARE VERY, VERY SIMILAR TO COTTONWOOD MM-HMM . 
          UM, AND, UH, UH, CLARKDALE JUST ADOPTED THERE. 
          SO I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO, TO COMPARE THE TWO, BUT, UH, I DID WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH CODY FROM COTTONWOOD. 
          AND, UM, OUR CODES ARE REALLY SIMILAR. 
          AND THEN YOU ALSO MENTIONED THAT WE'RE ON A SIX YEAR CYCLE, BUT THE CODES THEMSELVES UPDATE EVERY THREE YEARS. 
          SO WE'RE DOING EVERY OTHER CODE THEN, IS THAT? YES, SIR. 
          AND THAT'S KIND OF THE COMMITMENT AND THE VERDICT VALUE, OR THE MULTI-JURISDICTIONAL REVIEW COMMITTEE? EVERYONE'S ON THAT SAME PLAN. 
          IT IS, YES. 
          SO THE NEXT ONE THAT WE'LL TALK ABOUT COMES WHEN? 30 20. 
          30 30. 
          THANK YOU. 
          YES. 
          AND JUST TO KIND OF PIGGYBACK ONTO THAT, THE REASON WE DO THAT IS EDUCATION. 
          IT TAKES A LONG TIME, NOT JUST FOR US AS INSPECTORS, PLANS, EXAMINERS, BUILDING OFFICIALS TO FULLY LEARN AND UNDERSTAND AND APPLY THE CODES. 
          UM, THERE ARE, THERE ARE LEARNING PROCESSES, AND WE HAVE BEEN GOING TO SEMINARS ALREADY PRIOR TO THIS, BUT IT'S NOT UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY APPLY IT THAT YOU FIND OUT, OOPS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE NEED TO CHANGE THIS. 
          OR MAYBE I'M NOT LOOKING AT THIS PROPERLY. 
          UM, BUT IT'S ALSO AN EDUCATION PROCESS ON THE OTHER SIDE, IT'S AN EDUCATION PROCESS FOR THE CONTRACTORS, FOR, FOR THE DESIGNERS AND THE ARCHITECTS. 
          AND I'M GONNA TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT, UH, AS WELL, A LITTLE BIT FURTHER ON, ABOUT WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO AND HAVE DONE WITH PUBLIC OUTREACH ON THIS. 
          DID YOU SAY THAT THEY WERE PART OF THE, UM, THIS INITIAL REVIEW PROCESS TOO, OR THEY'RE DOWNSTREAM FROM IT, PRIVATE SECTOR CONTRACTORS, ARCHITECTS, AND SO FORTH? SO, UM, WE DID, AND I'VE GOT IT ON HERE, . 
          OKAY. 
          I'M JUST TEASING. 
          UM, WE DID FORM A FOCUS GROUP OF CONTRACTORS, ARCHITECTS, AND DESIGNERS, AND THEY WERE A PART OF, UH, LOOKING THROUGH OUR PROPOSED AMENDMENTS. 
          UM, ALSO, UH, I DID NOT SAY IT, BUT IF YOU LOOK UP THEIR, UH, PART OF THIS MONTHLY MEETING WITH ALL OF THE DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS INCLUDED SOMEONE FROM THE YAVAPAI COUNTY CONTRACTORS ASSOCIATION. 
          SO THEY WERE A PART OF THIS PROCESS AS WELL. 
          AND I DO WANNA SAY, UM, THAT WE ARE THE LAST IN THE VALLEY TO ADOPT THE 2020 FOURS. 
          UM, OTHER JURISDICTIONS THAT, UH, ARE IN, STILL IN PROCESS ARE FLAGSTAFF, BUT THEY'RE ALSO LOOKING TO ADOPT THE 2020 FOURS AND COCONINO COUNTY ALSO IN THE PROCESS TO ADOPT THE 20 FOURS. 
          UM, BUT WITHIN THE VALLEY AND, AND OVER THE HILL THERE, UM, WE ARE THE LAST ONES. 
          SO WE HAVE CONTRACTORS THAT ARE ALREADY DOING THINGS IN SEDONA THAT THE NEW CODES PERMIT THAT WE'RE HAVING TO SAY, OOH, WE CAN'T ACCEPT THAT YET. 
          YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE WE DON'T KNOW IF COUNSEL WILL ADOPT THIS. 
          SO, UM, BEING LAST, YOU KNOW, IS, IS NOT ALWAYS BEST. 
          UM, BUT YES, THEY'RE ALREADY OUT THERE, UH, UH, USING, AND, AND I HAD THIS REALLY GOOD PROCESS. 
          RIGHT? BUT , ALL THESE THOUGHTS ARE COMING TO MIND. 
          UM, I'VE BEEN IN THIS FIELD, UH, BUILDING CODES, INSPECTIONS, PLAN REVIEWS 
          [00:25:01]
FOR ALMOST 40 YEARS. 
          THIS IS PROBABLY THE 2024 IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE BETTER CODE UPDATES I HAVE SEEN, BECAUSE WHAT IT HAS DONE, IT HAS ADDRESSED THINGS THAT WE'VE SAID IN THE FIELD, HEY, THERE'S NOTHING IN THE CODE ON THIS, BUT HERE'S THE PRACTICAL SOLUTION. 
          HERE'S WHAT MY KNOWLEDGE OF LOADS AND ENGINEERING AND ALL THAT TELL ME. 
          AND WHAT DO YOU KNOW? THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS IN THIS CODE THAT ARE NOW THERE, UM, WHETHER IT BE FOR DECKS, UM, WE, UM, WE, WE TALK ABOUT, UM, UH, DIFFERENT WAYS OF BUILDING. 
          UM, THIS CODE HAS COP CONSTRUCTION. 
          NOW THAT WE'VE ADOPTED THAT AMENDMENT. 
          IT HAS ALL THESE DIFFERENT ALTERNATIVE BUILDING TYPES THAT ARE PART OF THE AMENDMENTS OF THE CODES. 
          I'M SORRY, UM, NOT THE AMENDMENTS , UM, UH, WE HAVE TO PUT IN OUR AMENDMENTS, UH, AS A, UM, APPENDIX. 
          SO APPENDIXES, UH, WITHIN THESE CODES ARE NOT ENFORCEABLE UNLESS YOU ADOPT THEM. 
          SO WHEN YOU LOOK AND YOU SEE ALL THESE APPENDICES IN OUR PROPOSED, UH, UH, ADOPTIONS, UH, IT'S BECAUSE WE CAN'T ENFORCE THEM UNLESS THEY ARE ADOPTED. 
          BUT IN THESE PEN APPENDICES, THERE ARE A BUNCH OF NEW DIFFERENT, UH, WAYS OF BUILDING LOWER COST, BUILDING, UH, STRAW BALE, UH, LIKE I SAID, COP CONSTRUCTION. 
          UM, THAT WILL, WE NOW HAVE STANDARDS THAT IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO BUILD BY THESE DIFFERENT MEANS, WE CAN NOW SAY, OKAY, HERE'S THE STANDARDS THAT THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE BY. 
          UM, WE HAVE THINGS SUCH AS THAT WE'VE BEEN FINDING IN HOMES AND NEVER HAVING A WAY TO ADDRESS IT. 
          UM, UH, SLEEPING LOFTS. 
          SO WE'VE SEEN SLEEPING LOFTS IN HOMES, YOU KNOW, UH, IT'S GREAT FOR KIDS, THEY'RE GREAT FOR, UH, UH, WHEN YOU HAVE COMPANY, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE. 
          UM, AND SLEEPING LOFTS NEVER MET THE CODES, THEY NEVER MET THE REQUIREMENTS FOR CEILING HEIGHTS FOR, UH, WAYS OF GETTING UP THERE. 
          PEOPLE WANTED TO USE LADDERS, WASN'T AN ALLOWANCE IN THE CODES. 
          UM, OUR CODES SAY YOU HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, A DISTANCE OF MORE THAN 20 INCHES OF ELEVATION CHANGE, YOU NEED A THREE FOOT GUARDRAIL. 
          WELL, WHEN YOU HAVE A FOUR FOOT CEILING, TOUGH TO PUT IN. 
          SO NOW THE CODE'S ADDRESSED THOSE THINGS. 
          SO, LIKE I SAID, TO ME, THIS CODE HAS ADDRESSED A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO ON OUR OWN. 
          UH, THEY'VE ALSO CHANGED THE LAYOUT OF THE CODE, UH, WHICH, UH, FOR SOME NOW THINK IT'S EASIER TO READ. 
          THEY HAVE PUT QR CODES IN ALL OF THE SECTIONS THAT ARE NEW OR CHANGED. 
          SO NOW ANYBODY CAN TAKE OUT THEIR PHONE, TAKE A PICTURE OF THAT QR CODE, AND THEY CAN, IT'LL TAKE 'EM RIGHT TO THE ICC SITE THAT'LL EXPLAIN TO HIM THEM WHAT THAT CHANGE WAS. 
          SO THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD THINGS WITH THIS, THIS CODE THAT, UM, LIKE I SAID, TO ME, IT'S ONE OF THE BETTER CODE UPDATES THAT I'VE SEEN IN MY CAREER. 
          OKAY. 
          CAN I ASK A QUESTION NOW? I DON'T WANT TO GET TOO OFF TRACK FOR YOU, BUT THE, UM, THE MODEL PLANS THAT WE ARE MM-HMM . 
          REQUIRED TO HAVE BY JUNE 30TH. 
          YES. 
          AND THE ONES THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE THE CONTEST FOR, AND ALL THAT WOULD BE BUILT TO WHAT SET OF CODES? THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. 
          THEY'RE GONNA BE BUILT TO THE 2024 CODES. 
          YES. 
          EVEN THE ONES THAT ARE DUE BY JUNE 30TH. 
          YES. 
          SO, AND I KNOW THAT'S NOT A PART OF THIS, UM, BUT OUR REQUIREMENTS, OUR STATE REQUIREMENTS IS TO JUST OPEN THE LIBRARY BY THAT DATE. 
          SO, UM, BUT I AM ALREADY IN THE PROCESS OF LOOKING AT THE COUNTY'S, UM, HOME OF YOUR OWN PLANS, AS ARE ALL THE OTHER, UH, MUNICIPALITIES. 
          UM, AND WE'RE DOING OUR, OUR PLAN REVIEWS, AND THEN WE'RE GONNA GET TOGETHER AND SAY, OKAY, WHO'S, YOU KNOW, UH, HOW DO, LET'S CONSOLIDATE OUR REQUIREMENTS HERE. 
          SO NO MATTER WHO IS WANTING TO USE THAT PLAN FROM WHATEVER CITY IT'S GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, HERE, HERE ARE THE REQUIREMENTS AND IT MEETS ALL OF OURS. 
          SO, UM, YEAH, WE'RE TRYING TO CONSOLIDATE THAT AS WELL. 
          STEVE DID. 
          IS THERE PRESSURE ON THE IEC TO LOWER THE COST OF CONSTRUCTION BY SIMPLIFYING THE BUILDING 
          [00:30:01]
CODES OR REMOVING UNNEEDED BUILDING CODES, EVALUATING THEM? YES. 
          UM, SO I HAVE ACTUALLY, UM,  BEEN PLAYING PHONE TAG FOR ABOUT TWO WEEKS WITH SOMEONE FROM ICC TO DISCUSS SIMILAR QUESTIONS. 
          BUT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER, ALTHOUGH COST IS SOMETHING THAT IS VERY DEAR TO OUR RESIDENTS, UH, AND, AND TO US AS WANTING AFFORDABLE HOUSING, UM, THE BUILDING CODES ARE LIFE SAFETY CODES. 
          SO, AND I WANNA SAY THAT THE BUILDING CODES, ALTHOUGH BEING LIFE SAFETY CODES ARE THE MINIMUM OF CONSTRUCTION TO MAKE SAFE, RIGHT? SO YOU CAN BUILD TOUGHER, BIGGER, GREATER THICKER, BUT THESE ARE THE MINIMUMS THAT THE CODE BODIES HAVE IDENTIFIED AS BEING SAFE ENOUGH. 
          SO IS DOES THIS MEAN THAT, UM, IF YOU TAKE ONE NAIL OUT OF THAT, THAT UH, UM, THAT RAFTER THAT THE HOUSE IS GONNA FALL DOWN? NO, THAT'S, THERE'S SAFETY FACTORS BUILT INTO IT, BUT THAT IS THE MIN, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A MINIMUM SAFETY FACTOR. 
          UM, SO THERE, IT, IT'S REALLY HARD TO JUST GO THROUGH AND SAY, LET'S MAKE THIS CHEAPER. 
          LET'S MAKE THIS CODE, UH, UM, IN A WAY THAT IT MAKES IT CHEAPER TO BUILD, BECAUSE THEY ARE REALLY USING MATERIALS, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO FORMULATE THIS. 
          YOU CAN BUILD A HOUSE 50 DIFFERENT WAYS. 
          YOU CAN BUILD IT USING I BEAMS. YOU CAN BUILD IT USING STANDARD CONSTRUCTION OF TWO BY SIXES, TWO BY FOURS. 
          YOU CAN BUILD IT WITH ENGINEERED LUMBER. 
          ALL OF THAT IS IN THE CODE. 
          ALL OF THESE ALLOWANCES ARE IN THE CODE. 
          SO YOU CAN CHOOSE TO BUILD IN A CERTAIN WAY WITH CERTAIN MATERIALS, AS LONG AS YOU CAN SHOW THAT YOU MEET THE MINIMUM STRUCTURAL ALLOWANCES. 
          AND AGAIN, THOSE ARE BASED UPON OUR AREA. 
          WHAT IS OUR, OUR, OUR GROUND SNOW LOAD? WHAT IS OUR WIND LOAD? WHAT IS OUR SEISMIC? AS LONG AS YOU CAN SHOW THAT THE WAY YOU'RE BUILDING, WHETHER IT'S WITH BOTTLES AND RUBBER, THAT IT STILL MEETS THOSE STRUCTURAL ALLOWANCES, MEETS THE PRESCRIPTIVE ALLOWANCES OF THE CODES, THE MINIMUMS, THEN I HAVE TO ALLOW AND WILL ALLOW THAT CONSTRUCTION. 
          SO AGAIN, IT'S REALLY HARD TO ANSWER QUESTIONS LIKE THAT BECAUSE THE CODE IS SO VARIED, YOU KNOW, AND, AND THE ALLOWANCES TO BUILD ARE SO VARIED. 
          AND THIS CODE, THESE CODES SHOW YOU, AND I USE THAT, THAT WORD PRESCRIPTIVE, AND I USE THAT A LOT. 
          THAT IS, IF YOU BUILD PER THESE CODES, THAT IS THE PRESCRIPTIVE METHODS OF BUILDING, YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE THOSE PRESCRIPTIVE METHODS. 
          YOU KNOW, WE TALK ABOUT CONTAINER BUILDINGS, THIS CODE NOW ADDRESSES CONTAINER BUILDINGS, IT DIDN'T USE TO, BUT IN THE PAST, WHAT WE'D HAVE TO SAY IS, YEAH, WE'RE NOT SAYING YOU CAN'T USE CONTAINER BUILDINGS, BUT THERE'S NOTHING, NO PRESCRIPTIVE WAY TO BUILD. 
          SO YOU HAVE TO SHOW US, YOU HAVE TO GET AN ENGINEER AND GET, UH, ENGINEERING CALCULATIONS TO SHOW US HOW TO WELD THESE TOGETHER, WHAT YOU CAN CUT OUT AND STILL MAINTAIN THE STRUCTURE. 
          CAN YOU SUPPORT A SECOND STORY IF YOU SET IT ON THIS WAY? YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT IN THE CODES. 
          THOSE ARE NOT PRESCRIPTIVE THINGS. 
          SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT YES, AGAIN, GET TO HAVE AN ENGINEER SHOW US THAT YOU'RE GONNA MEET THESE STRUCTURAL MINIMUMS. SO YEAH, YOU CAN, THERE'S A MILLION. 
          OKAY, I SAID 50 BEFORE, NOW I'M SAYING A MILLION. 
          SO WHY, IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, UM, THERE ARE SO MANY WAYS TO, TO BUILD WITH SO MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF, UM, MATERIALS. 
          SO, UM, DOES ANYONE ONE CAN RAISE OR LOWER THE COST? I'M SORRY? DOES ANYONE EVER CHOOSE TO SHOW YOU ALL THE MATH? OR DO THEY ABSOLUTELY STICK TO THE PRESCRIPTION? ABSOLUTELY. 
          WE'VE, WE'VE ACTUALLY, WE HAVE A, A CONTAINER BUILT HOME HERE, AND, UH, UH, WE WERE WORKING ON THE SECOND ONE, SO, UM, YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. 
          UM, HOW ABOUT 3D PRINTING? ABSOLUTELY, IT'S, IT'S IN ONE OF THE APPENDICES THAT, UM, I AM PROPOSING TO ALLOW AND TO APPROVE. 
          UM, SO YES, YES. 
          DID YOU ALREADY ANSWER THIS QUESTION? IF YOU DID, I APOLOGIZE. 
          WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE CODES FOR THE GROUP THAT WE'RE WORKING WITH CROSS JURISDICTIONAL GROUP 
          [00:35:01]
ARE BASED ON THE ICC CODES, THE GENERIC CODES, AND THEN WHAT PERCENTAGE IS THE AMENDMENTS FOR CITY SPECIFIC? WELL, YEAH. 
          UM, SO I CAN ANSWER THAT BY SAYING A HUNDRED PERCENT ARE BASED ON THE ICC CODES, BUT THEN THERE IS A DIFFERENT, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, EACH, EACH CITY HAS DIFFERENT CODE AMENDMENTS. 
          SO FOR SEDONA, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF OUR CODE BOOK YEAH. 
          ARE ARE STANDARD VERSUS UNIQUE, VERY, VERY SMALL, VERY, VERY SMALL. 
          YOU'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, A THOUSAND PAGES IN THERE, AND WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, 10 PAGES OF AMENDMENTS AND BIG TYPE AND, UM, SO YEAH, VERY SMALL. 
          ARE THEY THE DRIVERS OF THE CAUSE ? UM, YEAH. 
          AND, AND WE CAN GET THROUGH THAT. 
          YEAH, WE, WE CAN DISCUSS THAT. 
          UM, AND, AND I'M VERY HAPPY TO, UH, EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY WE HAVE THAT AMENDMENT IN AND, YOU KNOW, BE VERY HAPPY TO HEAR WHY YOU DON'T THINK WE SHOULD. 
          UM, AND THAT'S WHAT, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE, THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE. 
          RIGHT. 
          UM, SO, UH, MOVING ON. 
          UM, I KEEP WANTING TO DO THIS AND I'LL DO THIS INSTEAD. 
          UM, ARE WE GONNA TALK ABOUT ONLY THE NEW AMENDMENTS? ARE THERE OLD AMENDMENTS THAT CARRY FORWARD FROM THE OLD CODE TO THIS CODE? OR DOES EVERY AMENDMENT HAVE TO RENEW? UH, WE CAN TALK ABOUT AS MUCH AS YOU'D LIKE. 
          ABSOLUTELY. 
          UM, AND I HAVE INCLUDED, UH, THE OLD AMENDMENTS IN YOUR PACKET ALONG WITH THE NEW AMENDMENTS, THE OLD AMENDMENTS. 
          UM, WHAT IS, WHAT YOU SEE IN HIGHLIGHTED RED ARE, IS WHAT I'M REMOVING FROM THE OLD AMENDMENTS, BECAUSE THEY ARE EITHER NO LONGER NEEDED FOR SOME REASON, UH, UH, OR THEY'RE ACTUALLY ADDRESSED IN THE NEW, THERE ARE AMENDMENTS THAT WE HAD THAT ARE ADDRESSED IN THE NEW CODES. 
          SO, UM, AND, AND SO ABSOLUTELY, WE CAN DISCUSS AS MUCH AS YOU'D LIKE. 
          UM, BUT I HAVE TO LEAVE AT FIVE 30. 
           . 
          UM, HA. 
          OH, UH, SEE, I KEEP STUFF IT, STEVE. 
          DARN IT. 
          AND, UH, I HAVE A NOTE. 
          OOPS. 
          I HAVE A, I SHOULD PRACTICE THIS. 
          I'M SORRY. 
          I HAVE A NOTE AT THE BOTTOM, UM, THAT THIS PROCESS WAS DELAYED. 
          THAT, THAT WE WANTED TO BRING THIS FORTH A YEAR AGO. 
          UM, BUT, UH, ICC DID NOT PUBLISH THE IRC, UH, AND OTHER CODES, UH, UNTIL, UH, LIKE A YEAR, YEAR AND A HALF AGO. 
          SO, UH, WE HAD BEEN WAITING, WAITING, WAITING, WAITING. 
          UH, SO THIS, THIS COMMITTEE WAS FORMED ABOUT A YEAR LATER THAN WE WANTED TO. 
          SO, AS I SAID BEFORE, HERE ARE THE MUNICIPALITIES WE WORKED WITH, UH, YABA COUNTY, COTTONWOOD, CLARKDALE, CAMP VERDE, PRESCOTT, UH, COCONINO, COUNTY FLAGS, OH, WE, I'M SORRY, CHINO VALLEY AND PRESCOTT VALLEY. 
          I HAVE COCONINO VALLEY UP HERE ALONG WITH FLAGSTAFF WITH QUESTION MARKS BECAUSE, UH, WE, THEY WERE NOT A PART OF, UH, THE CONSORTIUM THAT, THAT WE WORKED WITH. 
          BUT, UH, THEY ARE IN THE PROCESS, AS I SAID EARLIER, OF ADOPTING THE 2020 FOURS. 
          EVERYONE ELSE OTHER THAN US HAS ALREADY ADOPTED IT. 
          . 
          AND THEN, UM, TWO OF THE CODES, UH, I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT TONIGHT, UH, ONE IS THE INTERNATIONAL PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE. 
          UM, WE DO NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT NOW. 
          ALL WE HAVE IS OUR CITY CODE, AND, UM, WE'RE LOOKING, I AM, AND, AND CODE ENFORCEMENT IS, IS IS HOPING THAT, UH, COUNCIL WILL ADOPT THIS CODE, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW OUR HANDS ARE BASICALLY TIED ON A LOT OF PROPERTY MAINTENANCE ISSUES WITHIN THE CITY CODE. 
          THE CLOSEST THING THAT COMES TO A HOUSE FALLING APART IS, UM, AND I, I, I, I'M JUMPING AHEAD OF MYSELF, BUT, UM, OH, MAN, IS UNSIGHTLY AN UNSIGHTLY PREMISES. 
          SO WHAT WE ARE ASKING IS TO ADOPT A PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE, BECAUSE THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE ADDRESSES ISSUES WITH EXISTING BUILDINGS. 
          ALL THESE OTHER CODES THAT WE ARE LOOKING TO ADAPT ARE FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. 
          WE DON'T HAVE A CODE THAT ADDRESSES PROPERTY MAINTENANCE ISSUES ON EXISTING HOMES. 
          SO, STEVE, ARE YOU SAYING THAT, THAT THIS IS CODE THAT YOU CAN USE, THAT CODE ENFORCEMENT CAN GO OUT AND SAY, THIS ISN'T SAFE FOR, I MEAN, YOU'RE CALLING IT UNSIGHTLY HERE. 
          SO IS IT SAFETY, IT'S AESTHETIC, 
          [00:40:01]
IT'S WHAT ALL IS COVERED? IT IS. 
          IT IS, IT IS. 
          I THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION. 
          IT IS ALL OF THAT. 
          UM, SO CODE ENFORCEMENT CAN USE, I, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU CAN SEE HERE, BUT THE, THE HOUSE ON THE LEFT, I ACTUALLY, UH, VISITED THAT HOUSE BACK IN 2018. 
          UM, AND THAT HOUSE WAS IN TERRIBLE SHAPE. 
          ALL THOSE SHINGLES THAT YOU SEE THERE, HALF OF 'EM ARE, THAT ARE UP THERE, ARE UP THERE JUST BECAUSE OF GRAVITY. 
          THEY HAVE ACTUALLY LEFT THEIR ORIGINAL POSITIONS. 
          IT HAD BROKEN WINDOWS, IT HAD, UH, SIDING THAT WAS P IT JUST SO MANY THINGS. 
          AND WE DIDN'T HAVE A CODE THAT COULD DIRECTLY ADDRESS THOSE THINGS. 
          I COULDN'T USE THEIR IRC BECAUSE THAT'S A NEW BUILDING CODE. 
          THAT'S FOR WHEN YOU'RE BUILDING. 
          UM, SO ALL WE COULD DO IS SAY, THIS IS AN UNSIGHTLY BUILDING. 
          IT WASN'T TO A POINT WHERE IT WAS IN EMINENT IN, UH, DANGER OF FALLING DOWN, WHICH WE DO HAVE A CODE FOR THAT. 
          UM, BUT YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT THAT COULD COLLAPSE AT ANY MINUTE. 
          THIS HOUSE ISN'T THAT. 
          SO WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING THAT CAN SAY, HEY, YOUR SHINGLES ARE FALLING DOWN. 
          THAT GUTTER IS FALLING OFF. 
          YOUR SIDING IS BUBBLING BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S GOT, UM, YOU CAN TELL THAT WATER IS, YOU HAVE WATER DAMAGE UNDERNEATH THERE. 
          UM, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING, WE DON'T WANT TO USE IT AS, UH, AN ENFORCEMENT TOOL, UH, ON ANYTHING BUT REACTIVENESS. 
          UM, JUST WHAT WE DO RIGHT NOW. 
          SO WHEN WE, WE DON'T GO OUT AND WE DON'T DRIVE UP AND DOWN STREETS AND SAY, OH, LOOK, THAT PAINT'S PEELING. 
          OH, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE DO. 
          THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE ASKED TO DO. 
          UM, WE NEED SOMETHING THAT WHEN A HOMEOWNER SAYS, I CAN'T SELL MY HOUSE BECAUSE OF THIS NEXT DOOR, I, WE ACTUALLY HAVE A SITUATION LIKE THAT THAT IS IN COURT RIGHT NOW, BUT IT'S IN COURT. 
          AND IT COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER IF WE HAD A, YOU KNOW, A CODE THAT ADDRESSED SPECIFICALLY THE ISSUES THAT WERE HAPPENING. 
          UM, STEVE, HOW IS THEIR TEETH TO THAT? SO LIKE YOUR COURT, WELL, NOT YOUR, BUT THE COURT CASE YOU'RE REFERENCING, IF YOU HAD THIS CODE IN PLACE, WHAT, SOMEBODY GOES AND COMPLAINS THROUGH THE WEBSITE AND A CODE INSPECTOR GOES OUT AND SAYS, YEP, THAT'S IN VIOLATION. 
          AND NOW THEY'VE BEEN SERVED, NOTICE THAT THEY MUST DO WHATEVER TO ADDRESS THE NON-CONFORMITY. 
          WHAT IF THAT HOMEOWNER SAYS, YEAH, THAT'S NICE, BUT GO AWAY . 
          SO, UM, NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER CODE THAT WE HAVE, WHETHER IT BE THE C CITY CODE, AND, AND THESE ARE ALL GONNA BE UNDER THE CITY CODE. 
          IT'S CHAPTER 15 OF THE CITY CODE. 
          UM, WE, SO IN, IN THE CASE THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, UM, WE COULD SAY THAT, UH, YOUR EXTERIOR WALL SHEATHING IS EXPOSED TO WEATHER. 
          YOUR EXTERIOR WALL SHEATHING IS, UM, IN DETERIORATION. 
          THESE ARE SPECIFIC THINGS WITHIN THE, UH, INTERNATIONAL PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE. 
          AND WE CAN CITE THOSE, AND WE CAN CITE THOSE IN A NOTICE OF VIOLATION. 
          IF THEY SAY GO AWAY, THEN IT GOES TO CITATION, THEN GOES TO COURT, AND THEN THE JUDGE SAYS, HERE'S WHAT YOU NEED TO DO WITHIN X AMOUNT OF MONTHS. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          YOU'RE WELCOME. 
          SO DO OTHER JURISDICTIONS, HAVE THEY ADOPTED THIS AS PART OF THEIR 2024 UPDATE? MOST OF THEM HAVE, YES. 
          I HAVE NOT DONE A COMPLETE SWEEP OF WHO HAS, WHO HASN'T. 
          BUT THE MAJORITY OF THE CITIES HAVE ADOPTED THE, AND HAVE HAD THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE PRIOR. 
          WE JUST NEVER DID. 
          SO THAT, UM, SO I WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THE, THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE. 
          I ALSO WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THE INTERNATIONAL ENERGY CONSERVATION CODE, WHICH GOES ALONG WITH CHAPTER 11 OF THE INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE. 
          SO, UM, THE INTERNATIONAL ENERGY CODE, A CONSERVATION CODE IS THE ENERGY CODE. 
          UM, AND, UH, BLESS YOU. 
          UM, CHAPTER 11 IS THE ENERGY SECTION OF THE RESIDENTIAL CODE. 
          SO WHAT WE CALL THE IECC HERE HAS TWO SECTIONS IN IT, RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL. 
          THE RESIDENTIAL SECTION OF THE IECC IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS CHAPTER 11 OF THE IRC. 
          WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING IS TO ELIMINATE CHAPTER 11 OF THE 2024 IRC AND NOT ADOPT THE 2024 
          [00:45:01]
IECC BECAUSE, A, IT IS NOT A LIFE SAFETY CODE B, WE FEEL THAT THE AMOUNT OF ENERGY SAVINGS FROM THE CHANGES IN THIS CODE IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT IT'S GOING TO COST TO IMPLEMENT THOSE CHANGES. 
          SO IT'S THE DIMINISHING RETURN SORT OF THING. 
          WE HAVE BEEN INCR TIGHTENING UP THAT ENERGY CODE CYCLE AFTER CYCLE AFTER CYCLE. 
          WE CAN'T GET OUR HOUSES TOO MUCH TIGHTER. 
          WE ARE ALREADY INSTITUTING REQUIREMENTS FOR OUTDOOR AIR TO BE BROUGHT IN TO THESE HOMES. 
          WE ALREADY HAVE AN R 49, WHICH IS 16 INCHES OF INSULATION. 
          IT, IT'S, IT'S A WHOLE LOT THAT WE'RE DOING TO THESE HOMES, UM, FOR COMFORT AND FOR ENERGY SAVINGS. 
          AND SO WE FEEL THAT, UM, WE HAVE HIT THAT POINT OF DIMINISHING RETURNS. 
          AND IN ORDER TO SAVE, UH, MONEY ON THE BUILDING OF A HOME, YEAH, WE DON'T WANT YOU TO GO TO A TWO BY EIGHT CONSTRUCTION TO PUT IN R 30 IN YOUR WALLS NOW, INSTEAD OF THE R 20 THAT IT'S REQUIRED, IT ONLY REQUIRES A TWO BY SIX. 
          UM, THERE'S AN OPTION TO USE THE R 20, BUT THEN YOU'D HAVE TO GO ON THE ENTIRE HOUSE WITH AN R FIVE OF RIGID INSULATION ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE HOUSE. 
          SO, UM, YOUR U FACTORS FOR WINDOWS, THE SMALLER THE U FACTOR, THE MORE ENERGY, UH, THAT YOU'RE CONSERVING, BUT OF COURSE, THE MORE COSTLY IT IS. 
          UM, SO THOSE U FACTORS HAVE DROPPED FROM A 0.32 TO A 0.30 FOR WINDOWS, FOR GLAZED DOORS FOR SKYLIGHTS FOR, SO WE DON'T FEE. 
          THIS IS AN AREA THAT WE CAN SAY, HEY, WE CAN SAVE MONEY HERE. 
          IT'S NOT A LIFE SAFETY CONCERN. 
          AND WE FEEL THAT WE ARE MORE THAN ENOUGH. 
          WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE AT A POINT THAT WE HAVE, UH, UH, ADDRESSED, UM, MUCH OF THE ENERGY CONCERNS, UH, AND, UH, THE COMFORT OF THE INDIVIDUALS WITHIN THOSE HOMES. 
          AND YOU'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR SUSTAINABILITY DEPARTMENT ABOUT THAT? ABSOLUTELY, YES. 
          AND THEY CONCUR. 
          YES. 
          YEAH. 
          THERE WAS NO PUSHBACK ON IT, UH, THROUGH SUSTAINABILITY. 
          UM, I WILL SAY THOUGH, UM, BOTH CARRIE, UH, PLANNING AND MYSELF HAVE WORKED WITH BRYCE AND THEIR, UH, CONSULTANTS SIG, UH, UH, TO, AND, UH, SO SIG HAS, UH, PROMOTED SOME, UH, ENERGY RELATED CODE UPDATES THAT, UH, WILL BE BEFORE YOU IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS. 
          UH, AND I WANTED TO MAKE THAT A PART OF, UH, MY SUBMITTAL TONIGHT. 
          NOT TO DISCUSS IT BECAUSE WE CAN DISCUSS IT THEN, BUT TO SHOW YOU THAT YES, THERE ARE SOME BUILDING CODE PROPOSALS THAT WILL BE BROUGHT FORTH, UH, ENERGY WISE THROUGH, UM, UH, BRYCE'S PROGRAM WITH SIG THEIR CONSULTANT. 
          SO THAT'S WHAT I HAVE INCLUDED IN, UH, THE PACKET HERE. 
          AGAIN, NOT NECESSARILY, AND, AND OBVIOUSLY IF YOU WANNA DISCUSS, WE CAN DISCUSS, AND THAT'S WHY BRYCE IS HERE. 
          UM, BUT IT WAS MORE ALONG THE LINES OF LETTING YOU KNOW THAT HERE ARE SOME THINGS STILL THAT, THAT, UM, UH, UH, TO BE BROUGHT FORTH TO YOU FOR DISCUSSION. 
          SO I SAW THAT REPORT IN HERE, AND, AND YET I COULDN'T FIND THE , THE SECTION OF CODE THAT IT WOULD RELATE TO. 
          AND I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT DOES THIS MEAN. 
          UM, SO YOU'RE GOING TO BE BRINGING US SOME RECOMMENDATIONS THAT COME OUT OF THAT REPORT, CORRECT. 
          WHICH, IF ADOPTED WOULD THEN BE AMENDMENTS TO CORRECT. 
          TO THESE? CORRECT. 
          SO WE HAVE, OR WHICH PARTS OF THE CODE? CORRECT. 
          SO BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT BROUGHT IT FORTH TO COUNCIL, I DIDN'T WANNA PUT THAT WITHIN THE AMENDMENTS, 'CAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHICH ONES YOU GUYS ARE GONNA LIKE OR NOT LIKE. 
          UM, BUT AFTER THAT PROCESS, UH, I CAN THEN AMEND THE AMENDMENTS, UM, UH, TO INCLUDE ANY OF THOSE THAT YOU WOULD LIKE INCLUDED. 
          AND, UH, THE REPORT THAT SIG HAS DONE, UH, ADDRESSES BOTH, UH, AMENDMENTS IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THE BUILDING CODES. 
          AND UNFORTUNATELY JUST BECAUSE OF TIME, UM, IT HAPPENED TO WHERE, YOU KNOW, ONE IS BEING DONE BEFORE THE OTHER, UM, BUT, UH, THIS HAS BEEN SO DELAY, THIS BEING THE BUILDING CODE UPDATES HAS BEEN SO DELAYED. 
          WE DIDN'T WANT TO DELAY IT ANY FURTHER. 
          UM, I HAD ACTUALLY SENT IN THE, UH, 
          [00:50:01]
THE AGENDA REQUEST IN, IN DECEMBER, BUT IT, IT, THE  YOUR DOCKETS FOR SPECIAL MEETINGS BECAUSE OF THE BUDGETS AND OTHER THINGS WERE FILLED IN DECEMBER ALL THE WAY THROUGH INTO MAY. 
          SO THAT'S WHY I'M HERE IN MAY, EVEN THOUGH I WAS HOPING TO COME FORWARD IN JANUARY. 
          UM, BUT, UH, AND SO THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF DOING THIS AND THEN WE'RE GONNA COME BACK WITH OTHERS. 
          UM, BUT AGAIN, WE CAN ALWAYS COME BACK AND AMEND AS WE DO WITH THE LDC. 
          WE CAN ALWAYS COME BACK AND AMEND AS NEEDED. 
          NOW I DON'T KNOW WHERE I'M AT. 
          UM, OH, SO, UM, YEAH, I THINK I, I ADDRESSED MOST OF THE THINGS HERE THAT, UH, UM, IT'S, IT'S PART OF OUR EFFORT TO, UH, ADDRESS THE INCREASING COSTS OF BUILDING HOMES IS TO NOT ADOPT A NEW ENERGY CODE. 
          UM, AND THERE WAS A FULL CONSENSUS WITHIN ALL THE COMMUNITIES. 
          NONE OF THE COMMUNITIES ARE ADOPTING THE 2020 FOURS, UH, ENERGY CODES. 
          SO, SO THE, UH, UM, JUMPING BACK AND UNFORTUNATELY, LIKE I SAID, , I, BY THE WAY, I LOVE THE QUESTIONS DURING THE PROCESS INSTEAD OF WAIT UNTIL THE END. 
          SO, UM, I JOKE THAT, UH, IT'S MESSING UP MY, MY WHOLE PRESENTATION HERE, BUT I LOVE IT. 
          I LOVE IT. 
          I, I, YOU KNOW, PLEASE, ANYTHING OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD, UH, YOU KNOW, LET ME KNOW. 
          UM, BUT GOING BACK TO THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE, UH, IT ADDRESSES THE AREAS HERE AND MORE, UH, IT JUST TOOK SOME HIGHLIGHTS OUT OF THE CODE. 
          SO SANITATION, STAGNANT WATER, RODENT, HARBOR BRIDGE, UH, STRUCTURALLY UNSAFE CONDITIONS. 
          YOU, YOU SAW, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, THE HOUSE WITH THE, THE GUTTERS FALLING DOWN AND ACTUALLY HITTING THE GROUND, YOU SAW FENCES AND DISREPAIR YOU. 
          UM, IF WE HAD A SHED AND DISREPAIR, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE, I CAN ADDRESS THAT WITH THIS. 
          AND IT'S NOT JUST GOING TO BE A CODE THAT CAN BE USED BY CODE ENFORCEMENT. 
          IT'S A CODE THAT CAN BE USED BY BUILDING SAFETY BY OUR INSPECTORS, BECAUSE WE WILL GO ON AND HAVE GONE ON, UH, CALLS ABOUT HOMES. 
          I WAS IN A SHED THAT WAS, UH, BEING USED, UH, AS A, AN APARTMENT AND, UM, THE WAY ELECTRICITY WAS RUN OUT THERE AND THE WAY PLUMBING WAS RUN OUT THERE, AND THE WAY THEY WERE HEATING THE PLACE AND COOLING THE PLACE, UM, I, I HAD TO USE THE CODES THAT WE HAD, BUT THIS CODE WOULD'VE BEEN MUCH BETTER IN THAT SITUATION. 
          YEAH. 
          SO, SO, UM, AN INTERIOR STRUCTURE TALKS ABOUT OCCUPANCY LIMITS. 
          MM-HMM . 
          HOW DOES THIS, THANK YOU. 
          HOW IS THIS GOING TO AFFECT SHORT TERM RENTALS THAT HAVE OCCUPANCY LIMITS THAT WOULD NOT NORMALLY BE SUSTAINABLE IN, UH, SAY TWO OR THREE BEDROOM HOME? THANK, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BRINGING THAT UP, BECAUSE, UM, THAT IS, UH, ANOTHER REASON TO ADOPT, IN MY MIND, TO ADOPT THIS CODE. 
          AND THAT IS, IT ACTUALLY DOES HAVE REQUIREMENTS FOR A NUMBER OF PEOPLE PER SQUARE FOOT. 
          SO IF WE TAKE BEDROOMS, UM, IT SAYS THAT THE, THAT BEDROOM HAS TO BE AT LEAST 70 SQUARE FOOT FOR ONE O OCCUPANT. 
          THEN FOR EACH OCCUPANT THEREOF, THAT BEDROOM SIZE HAS TO BE 50 SQUARE FOOT MORE. 
          SO IF YOU ARE ADVERTISING A ROOM WITH AN, AND I'M NOT MAKING THIS UP, UM, WE HAVE MULTIPLE SHORT-TERM RENTALS THAT ARE ADVERTISING, UH, QUEEN BUNK BEDS, THREE BUNK BEDS, HIGH TWO SETS IN A ROOM SAYING, YOUR KIDS WOULD LOVE THIS ROOM. 
          THAT'S 12 KIDS. 
          YOU COULD EASILY FIT IN THAT ROOM. 
          AND THAT ROOM WAS ABOUT, UM, SAY, UH, MAYBE 190 SQUARE FOOT, YOU KNOW, AND YOU MULTIPLY 12 TIMES 50, UH, 11 TIMES 50 PLUS 70, 11 TIMES 50. 
          UM, THAT ROOM WAS WELL UNDERSIZED. 
          SO YES, THIS COULD BE USED IN, IN THAT REGARD. 
          SO LET ME MAKE, AGAIN, I'M GONNA RESTATE AND MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND. 
          IN MY UNDERSTANDING IS WHEN SOMETHING'S BUILT NOW, IT'S, UM, UM, GRANDFATHERED IN AT THE CODE LEVEL THAT IT, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS IN EXISTENCE AT THE TIME OF THE BUILDING. 
          OKAY. 
          BUT FOR THE, UM, FOR THE IPMC, 
          [00:55:02]
THERE IS NO GRANDFATHERING IN EFFECT DUE TO DEGRADATION OR WHATEVER. 
          YES. 
          OTHER, THAT IS A GREAT, GREAT QUESTION. 
          NO, IT DOES NOT UNDERCUT THE ALLOWANCE OF EXISTING NON-CONFORMING OR, OR LEGAL NONCONFORMING. 
          IT DOES NOT UNDERCUT. 
          SO IT ALLOWS LEGAL UNDER CORRECT. 
          CORRECT. 
          SO WHERE, UM, A HOUSE WAS BUILT AT A POINT IN TIME, UH, THAT IT DIDN'T REQUIRE GCIS AT A KITCHEN. 
          THIS ISN'T SAYING YOU HAVE TO PUT THAT IN. 
          WHAT THIS IS SAYING IS MOSTLY THE DEGRADATION, UM, THAT THAT WHICH WAS BUILT HAS NOT BEEN TAKEN CARE OF. 
          UM, AND, UH, WHERE, WHERE WE GET CALLED OUT TO A SITUATION WHERE, UM, A A, A LIGHTING FIXTURE IS JUST HANGING THERE USED TO BE UP IN THE CEILING AND IT'S JUST HANGING THERE. 
          THAT IS SOMETHING WHERE I COULD SAY THAT IS NOT INSTALLED PER ITS INTENT, AND IT HAS TO BE BROUGHT BACK TO THAT OLD LEVEL OF APPROPRIATENESS, OR IT WILL BE SUBJECT TO THE NEW, WHATEVER THE CODE WOULD SAY, THE, SO THE OLD SAFE LEVEL OF APPROPRIATENESS IF THEY HAVEN'T CHANGED IT. 
          SO AGAIN, IT'S NOT, UM, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I WOULD USE TO SAY, OH, ILLEGAL NONCONFORMING, NOT ANYMORE. 
          YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS CODE IS FOR. 
          IT'S PROPERTY MAINTENANCE. 
          IT'S NOT A BUILDING CODE PER SE, BUT IT ALLOWS ME TO USE CERTAIN SECTIONS TO SAY, YOUR ELECTRIC IS IN DISREPAIR, YOUR PLUMBING IS IN DISREPAIR. 
          UM, WE DON'T HAVE THAT NOW. 
          I MEAN, I LIKE THE TOOL IN THE TOOLBOX, BUT I'M THINK, TRYING TO THINK OF HOW PROBLEMATIC IT COULD BE TO HOMEOWNERS. 
          I LIKE HAVING THE TOOL, THOUGH. 
          YES. 
          AND, AND AGAIN, UM, I'LL BE HONEST, I'VE WORKED IN CITIES AS A CONSULTANT WHERE THEY HIRED SOME OF OUR PEOPLE TO USE A CODE LIKE THIS AND DRIVE UP AND DOWN THE STREETS BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO BRING THEIR CITY TOWN VILLAGE UP TO A CERTAIN STANDARD. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, COLLAR COUNTIES OF CHICAGO, YOU KNOW, THEY USE THIS TO SAY, YOU KNOW, LET'S, LET'S TURN THIS AROUND. 
          LET'S, BUT IN, I'VE ALSO SEEN IT USED IN A GOOD WAY, UM, THAT, UH, I WAS PART OF A CITY WHERE THEY DROVE THROUGH AND SAID, HEY, IT'S SPRINGTIME. 
          WE NOTICE THIS. 
          PLEASE PUT THIS ON YOUR LIST WHEN YOU'RE DOING, YOU KNOW, IT CAN BE USED IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS. 
          WE ARE JUST ASKING TO HAVE THIS CODE SO THAT WHEN WE GET THESE CALLS, THESE COMPLAINTS, AND WE SEE THAT SOMEBODY IS, I'M GONNA SAY FORCING SOMEONE TO LIVE IN SQUALOR, THIS CODE CAN ADDRESS THAT. 
          UM, I, RIGHT NOW, I WOULD HAVE TO USE OUR NEW CONSTRUCTION CODES AND TRY TO, YOU KNOW, TWIST THAT. 
          AND, AND THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY'RE USED FOR. 
          THAT'S NOT THEIR PURPOSE. 
          SO WE, THIS IS A PURPOSE CODE FOR EXISTING SITUATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN DEGRADATED, WHETHER IT'S, UH, A LANDLORD THAT WON'T KEEP THE PLACE UP, AND NOW PEOPLE ARE LIVING IN A SITUATION WHERE THEY HAVE TO TAPE A BROKEN WINDOW THAT THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SEEN IT ALL AS, AS NICE AS SEDONA IS. 
          AND, AND WE ALL LOVE SEDONA. 
          WE FIND THESE THINGS FROM TIME TO TIME, AND I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THAT TOOL THAT I CAN PROPERLY USE AND IDENTIFY THE ISSUES AT HAND. 
          ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THE IP MC? OKAY, SO THE WHY, UM, AS I STATED BEFORE, UM, THESE CODES, OTHER THAN THE ENERGY CODE, THEY'RE LIFE SAFETY CODES. 
          IT'S NOT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. 
          WERE MOSTLY LOOKING AT AESTHETICS OR, UH, THE CLOSENESS FOR, UH, REASONS OTHER THAN SAFETY. 
          UM, THESE ARE LIFE SAFETY CODES. 
          AND, AND I SAID THEY'RE THE MINIMUMS OF HOW YOU CAN BUILD. 
          UM, I'M GONNA JUMP IN AND, AND, UM, STATE THAT 
          [01:00:03]
WE, THE INDUSTRY RIGHT NOW IS LOSING, ITS, ITS, UM, UH, IT, ITS, UH, UH, OLDER GENERATION AND WE'RE USING, WE'RE LOSING OUR CRAFTSMEN. 
          AND WE HAVE A BIG PROBLEM RIGHT NOW WITH GETTING PEOPLE TO FILL THOSE ROLES. 
          AND IF WE DIDN'T HAVE CODES TO SAY, THIS IS HOW YOU BUILD, THEN WHAT IS THE NEXT GENERATION GOING TO BE? IT'S THE CODES THAT TEACH US HOW TO MAKE A BUILDING SAFE. 
          YES. 
          YOU CAN SAY, WELL, MY DAD BUILT A REALLY GOOD BUILDING AND HE HANDED ME DOWN THOSE, THOSE TRAITS. 
          AND YES, THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO ARE GREAT CRAFTSMEN, UH, AND IT'S A HANDED DOWN SKILL, BUT WE'RE LOOKING AT THE TOTAL. 
          AND, UH, WHEN WE HAVE, EVEN NOW, OR WE HAVE BUILDING CODES, BUT WE HAVE CONTRACTORS WHO DON'T FOLLOW THEM. 
          AND WE HAVE CON, WE HAVE RESIDENTS WHO CALL US AFTER HIRING THESE CONTRACTORS AND SAY, HELP US LOOK AT THE SHODDY WORK THIS GUY DID. 
          AND THE FIRST THING IS, WELL, WISH YOU WOULD'VE GOTTEN A PERMIT. 
          UM, BUT YES, WE WILL HELP YOU. 
          UM, BUT WE CAN ONLY HELP WITH THE CODES. 
          THIS IS THAT TOOL TO HELP US, UH, TEACH AND TO HELP MAKE SURE THAT BUILDINGS ARE SAFE. 
          SO WHY SHOULD WE DO THIS? EVERY CODE CYCLE IS, HAS NEW THINGS IN IT, NOT BECAUSE SOMEBODY SITTING BEHIND THE DESK SAYS, THIS IS A GREAT IDEA. 
          IT IS A CONSTANT THREE YEAR PROCESS OF THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY, WHETHER IT'S THE MANUFACTURERS, WHETHER IT'S, UM, THE, THE INSPECTOR, THE PLANS, EXAMINERS, THE ARCHITECTS, THE CON, THE CONTRACTORS. 
          THEY ARE ALL A PART OF THIS PROCESS. 
          AND THEY CAN GO TO THESE MEETINGS AND THEY CAN, UH, YOU CAN HAVE VOTING RIGHTS. 
          AND SO THINGS GET PRESENTED. 
          THOUSANDS OF THINGS GET PRESENTED, AND JUST MAYBE A HUNDRED OR 200 GET IN THE CODE. 
          AND MAYBE SOME OF THOSE THINGS THAT GET IN THE CODE ARE CHANGING ONE WORD, BECAUSE IT, IT MAKES IT BETTER TO UNDERSTAND MAYBE IT'S CHANGING THE LOCATION OF THAT, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S BETTER IF WE PUT IT AFTER THIS, IT MAKES MORE SENSE. 
          SO NOT ALL CODE CHANGES ARE BASED UPON, UH, SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED, BUT MANY OF THEM ARE, MANY OF THE CODES, UH, IN HERE ARE IN HERE BECAUSE SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED. 
          YOU KNOW, WHEN I GREW UP, WE DIDN'T HAVE GCIS, WE DIDN'T HAVE ARC FAULTS. 
          AS A KID, I KNEW WHAT ARCING DID BECAUSE WE HAD FIRES ALL AROUND US. 
          MY OWN APARTMENT THAT WE LIVED IN. 
          LUCKILY, WE WERE ON VACATION. 
          WE HAD ARC FAULT AT THE RECEPTACLE, UH, BEHIND THE REFRIGERATOR. 
          AND WE GOT A CALL SAYING, EVERYTHING'S GONE. 
          UM, THERE ARE REASONS THAT WE PUT THINGS INTO THE COATS, INTO THE BUILDING COATS. 
          AND THERE ARE REASONS WHY WE TRY TO CATCH AS MUCH AS WE CAN. 
          UH, DURING THE CONSTRUCTION OF A BUILDING, WE'RE NOT GONNA CATCH EVERYTHING. 
          BUT IF WE CAN EDUCATE, IF WE CAN HAVE PROGRAMS WHERE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND HERE'S HOW TO BUILD PROPERLY AND SAFELY, THEN UM, UH, YOU KNOW, WE, WE CAN, I THINK HAVE A, WE WE'VE SEEN, WE KNOW THAT IT WORKS BECAUSE WE KNOW THE NUMBER OF FIRES, THE NUMBER OF DEATHS, THE NUMBER OF INJURIES DUE TO BUILDING RELATED ISSUES HAVE DROPPED. 
          YOU KNOW, UM, WHEN, WHEN I WAS LIVING IN CHICAGO AS A KID, I REMEMBER THE SCHOOL IN CHICAGO WHERE THE KIDS, A HUNDRED KIDS DIED, AND THREE NUNS, AND THEY WERE TRAPPED ON THE SECOND FLOOR, AND THEY'RE TRAPPED ON THE SECOND FLOOR BECAUSE THEY HAD TO OPEN STAIRWELLS AND ALL THAT SMOKE AND ALL, ALL THOSE FUMES, ALL THOSE GASES, THEY DIED NOT FROM FLAMES, BUT FROM THAT. 
          AND THEY DIED BECAUSE THERE WERE NO SPRINKLERS IN THE BUILDING. 
          AND THEY DIED FOR A WHOLE LIST OF OTHER THINGS. 
          THE THEATER WHERE PEOPLE PILED UP IN A FIRE AT THE DOOR THAT DID NOT SWING OUT, THAT DID NOT HAVE PANIC HARDWARE. 
          UM, THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE LEARN, UNFORTUNATELY FROM TRAGEDIES. 
          AND SOMETIMES TRAGEDY DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A 
          [01:05:01]
HUNDRED PEOPLE DYING IN THE THEATER. 
          SOMETIMES TRAGEDY IS SOME POOR KID THAT FELL INTO A POOL AND NO ONE WAS AROUND, UM, BECAUSE THEY SAW THE WATER AND THEY THOUGHT THAT WAS GREAT. 
          UM, SO MANY OF OUR CODE SECTIONS ARE BASED UPON THAT. 
          IT'S BASED UPON TRAGEDIES THAT HAPPENED. 
          UH, AND HERE'S HOW WE THINK IS BEST TO CORRECT THAT. 
          UM, WHY SHOULD WE DO THIS? WE ARE TWO CODE CYCLES BEHIND. 
          WHEN WE GET THREE CODE CYCLES BEHIND, WE ARE NOW, UM, IN EVERY CODE CYCLE, THEY TRY TO ADDRESS ALL OF THE NEW MATERIALS THAT GET PROPOSED, ALL THE NEW PROCESSES. 
          ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS HERE IS, UH, BATTERIES, BATTERY STORAGE, RIGHT? FOR OUR, OUR PV SYSTEMS, UH, BATTERY STORAGE IS NOW STARTING TO REPLACE GENERATORS. 
          SO WHEN, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE HAVE A, A STORM AND YOUR, YOUR LIGHTS GO OUT, SOME PEOPLE HAD GENERATORS THAT WOULD KICK ON IN 10 SECONDS. 
          WELL, NOW PEOPLE ARE USING STORAGE BATTERIES FOR THAT VERY REASON. 
          UM, WE DIDN'T HAVE REQUIREMENTS IN PREVIOUS CODES ON STORAGE BATTERIES AND THE, AND IN OUR PAST CODES, THE CODES WE HAVE NOW, THEY'RE VERY THIN ON THAT. 
          THIS CODE ADDRESSES IT MORE. 
          'CAUSE WE'VE LEARNED MORE ABOUT THESE BATTERIES. 
          WE'VE LEARNED MORE ABOUT THE FACT THAT IF, IF THEY DO CATCH FIRE, YOU CAN'T PUT 'EM OUT WITH AN EXTINGUISHER. 
          YOU CAN'T PUT IT OUT WITH A FIRE TRUCK. 
          THE FIREMEN KNOW THAT THEY HAVE TO BE THERE DAY LOSING THAT HEAT SOURCE FOR HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS UNTIL IT GETS DOWN TO A CERTAIN LEVEL THAT IT'S NO LONGER BURNING. 
          AND SO THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT, SO I JUST USE THAT AS AN EXAMPLE, BUT EVERY CODE CYCLE IDENTIFIES PROCESSES AND MATERIALS THAT ARE NEW THAT WEREN'T AROUND IN THE LAST CODE CYCLE. 
          SO THE MORE CODE CYCLES THAT WE GO BEYOND, THE MORE THINGS THAT WE CAN'T PROPERLY ADDRESS. 
          UM, SO WE GET, SO THE NEXT ONE IS NEW PRODUCTS, TECHNOLOGIES, PROCEDURES. 
          UM, CAN I ASK A QUESTION? YES. 
          SO, SOMEWHERE IN HERE, UM, THERE WAS AN, UH, WHAT WAS THE THOUGHT PROCESS BEHIND? UM, AN EXCEPTION FOR, UH, ALUMINUM WIRING VERSUS COPPER? MM-HMM . 
          YES. 
          WHY, WHY WOULD WE DO THAT? WELL, UM, AGAIN, BECAUSE PRODUCTS WERE, SO, IT STARTED THE, OUR, OUR CURRENT AMENDMENT DOESN'T PERMIT IT, RIGHT? AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE REFERENCING MM-HMM . 
          UM, IS BECAUSE THE OLD ALUMINUM WIRING HAD A REQUIREMENT THAT YOU HAD TO MAINTAIN IT. 
          THE ALUMINUM, ALUMINUM WIRING IS NOT AS PLIABLE AS COPPER. 
          YOU CAN BEND ALUMINUM WIRING A COUPLE TIMES AND IT SNAPS THE OLD ALUMINUM WIRING, ALUMINUM WIRING EXPANDED AND CONTRACTS WITH HEAT WITH DIFFERENT TEMPERATURE. 
          SO YOU CAN MAKE UP A TERMINATION IN AN ELECTRICAL PANEL WITH ALUMINUM WIRING, AND YOU CAN TORQUE IT TO THE RIGHT TORQUE AND YOU CAN GO, THAT'S A GOOD INSTALLATION. 
          IF YOU'RE NOT BACK THERE IN A YEAR, CHECKING THAT TORQUE AGAIN, YOU MAY HAVE A PROBLEM. 
          AND, UM, I WORKED FOR A CITY THAT A SUBDIVISION WAS BUILT USING ALUMINUM WIRING AS SERVICE ENTRANCE CONDUCTORS IN THEIR PANELS. 
          AND EVERY ONE OF THE, NO, SORRY, EVERY ONE OF THOSE HOMES HAD IT. 
          THERE WAS A RASH OF FIRES WITHIN THREE YEARS, ALL FOR THE SAME REASON THAT ALUMINUM WIRING HAD EXPANDED AND CONTRACTED SO MUCH THAT IT WAS NO LONGER MAKING A GOOD CONNECTION. 
          AND IT WAS ARCING WITHIN ITS CONNECTORS. 
          SO WHY DO WE HAVE THIS? IS BECAUSE THAT WAS MY EXPERIENCE WITH ALUMINUM WIRING. 
          MAYBE I MISREAD IT. 
          I WAS THINKING THAT, UM, WE'D MOVED TO COPPER, BUT YOU WERE CARVING OUT AN EXCEPTION FOR, UM, ALUMINUM IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS. 
          SO, YES, AND I'M, I'M SORRY THAT I MISUNDERSTOOD YOUR QUESTION, BUT I THINK IT'S RELEVANT TO STATE WHAT I STATED IN ORDER TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. 
          UM, WE NOW HAVE BETTER ALLOYS FOR ALUMINUM. 
          AND SO IN ORDER TO ALLOW BUILDERS TO SAVE MONEY, WE'RE SAYING THAT YES, THERE ARE NOW ALUMINUM ALLIES OUT THERE. 
          AND THAT'S WHY WE SPECIFIED THAT CERTAIN TYPE THAT ARE VERY CLOSE NOW TO COPPER IN 
          [01:10:01]
ITS PLIABILITY, IN ITS RESISTANCE TO EXPANSION AND CONTRACTION DUE TO AMBIENT TEMPERATURES, UH, AND DUE TO CURRENT. 
          UM, SO NOW WE'RE SAYING, YES, THERE'S A PRODUCT OUT THERE THAT IS CHEAPER THAN COPPER THAT CONTRACTORS WANT TO USE, AND THAT COMES VERY CLOSE TO THE SAFETY OF COPPER. 
          SO THAT IS WHY WE HAVE THAT ALLOWANCE. 
          BUT, BUT EXCUSE ME, CHARLOTTE, I, I GOTTA MOVE THIS ON BECAUSE WE GOTTA BE OUT OF HERE BY SIX 30 AND WE'RE NOT EVEN HALFWAY DONE, OR WE'RE ABOUT ABOUT HALFWAY DONE. 
          SO IS THAT OKAY? YEAH. 
          BUT, BUT THAT'S THE REASON IS TO, TO TRY TO HELP, UH, WITH THE COSTS, UH, UNDERSTANDING THE NEW TECHNOLOGIES. 
          UM, AGAIN, THE CONSISTENCY WITH THE AREA MUNICIPALITIES. 
          UH, AND IT WAS A COUNCIL PRIORITY THAT WE UPDATE OUR CODES. 
          UM, AND IT'S ALSO, UH, PART OF THE COMMUNITY PLAN. 
          I'M NOT GONNA READ THESE STATEMENTS, BUT, UH, THERE ARE UP THERE, UM, THAT, UH, THAT WE WANT TO ADDRESS THE PUBLIC'S HEALTH, HEALTH, SAFETY, AND WELFARE WITH THE CODES. 
          UM, THE ENGAGEMENT THAT I TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, UH, WE DID, UH, CREATE A FOCUS GROUP, UM, AND, UH, UH, IT WAS MADE UP OF CONTRACTORS, DESIGNERS, ARCHITECTS. 
          WE WENT THROUGH EVERY ONE OF OUR AMENDMENTS, UM, UH, GAVE THEM A SHEET OF, I HAVE IT SENT HERE SOMEWHERE OF ALL THE SPECIFIC CHANGE OR, OR HIGHLIGHTED CHANGES. 
          'CAUSE A LOT OF THOSE, LIKE I SAID, A LOT OF THE CHANGES ARE JUST A DIFFERENT NUMBER FOR THE SECTION, UH, DIFFERENT LOCATION. 
          UM, BUT THE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES. 
          AND WE WENT THROUGH ALL THOSE AND, UH, THEY PROVIDED THEIR FEEDBACK ON WHAT THEY THOUGHT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE CHANGED. 
          THEY LOVED THE FACT THAT WE WERE PROPOSING NOT TO ADAPT THE ENERGY CODE. 
          UM, THERE WAS A SECTION ABOUT, UH, RECEPTACLES IN ISLANDS IN PENINSULAS AND HOMES, UM, THAT NOW THE, THE NEW CODES GIVE THEM AN OPTION OF PUTTING A RECEPTACLE THERE OR NOT, BECAUSE THESE ISLANDS IN THESE HOMES ARE, YOU KNOW, IT'S MARBLE FROM BRAZIL, OR SHOULD SAY CHERRY WOOD FROM BRAZIL. 
          UM, ANYWAY, SO WE GOT THEIR FEEDBACK. 
          THEY HAD NO PROBLEMS. AND I WAS, YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY THIS AND HOPEFULLY I, I, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T INVITE THEM HERE. 
          UM, I WAS JUST HAPPY THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO, TO JOIN ME FOR THE FOCUS GROUP. 
          BUT, UM, UH, NO PUSHBACK ON THESE CODES WHATSOEVER. 
          BRIAN, SORRY, STEVE, I, I DON'T SEE ANY FOCUS GROUP MEMBERS IN THE AUDIENCE TODAY. 
          I'M GUESSING. 
          DO YOU INTEND TO HAVE ANY COME IN JULY? IT WOULD BE NICE TO HEAR, HEAR SOME TESTIMONY FROM ABSOLUTELY THOSE FOLKS AS TO THEIR ASSESSMENT. 
          NOT DOUBTING YOU, BUT JUST WOULD BE NICE TO HEAR. 
          NO, I, I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE 'EM HERE TOO. 
          I, I KNOW HOW BUSY THEY ARE, AND SO I DIDN'T ASK 'EM TO SHOW UP FOR TONIGHT, BUT ABSOLUTELY. 
          HOW LARGE WAS YOUR FOCUS GROUP? I MEAN, YOU SAYING CONTRACTORS, DESIGNERS, ARCHITECTS, BUT 3, 10, 20 10. 
          WE STARTED WITH 12 AND 10 WERE ABLE TO COME. 
          OKAY. 
          SO, THANK YOU. 
          AND THEY'RE ALL LOCAL? THEY ARE ALL ALL LOCAL? YES. 
          SEDONA LOCAL. 
          SEDONA LOCAL. 
          OKAY. 
          AND AGAIN, WE HAD ARCHITECTS, DESIGNERS, AND CONTRACTORS IN THE GROUP. 
          UM, SO IN THE FUTURE, WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO, OH, WE ALSO MET WITH MEMBERS OF THAT SAME GROUP ON THE BUILDING CODE SPECIFIC, UH, REQUIREMENTS OF THE SIG REPORT THAT YOU'RE GONNA SEE IN A, IN A COUPLE OF OF WEEKS. 
          SO THEY DID PROVIDE THEIR FEEDBACK ON THAT, WHICH, UH, WE WILL, UH, REITERATE, UH, IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS. 
          UM, IN THE FUTURE, WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO, UM, I'VE ALREADY KIND OF PUT SOME FEELERS OUT THERE WITH ICC. 
          I WANT TO TRY TO GET ONE OF THEIR IN INSTRUCTORS TO COME AND SET UP A CLASS FOR OUR CONTRACTORS, FOR OUR, UH, OUR DESIGNERS AND ARCHITECTS, UM, TO IDENTIFY THE CHANGES BETWEEN THE 2018 CODES INTO 2020 FOURS TO HELP THEM HELP EDUCATE THEM. 
          I ALSO WANNA SET UP A MONTHLY MEETING, AND I'VE ALREADY BEEN TALKING TO CONTRACTORS ABOUT THIS, WHAT I'M GONNA CALL CODE TALK WITH STEVE . 
          SO WHETHER IT'S, UH, DISCUSSING, UM, THEIR QUESTIONS ON THE NEW CODE, WHETHER IT'S, UH, WHATEVER, WHATEVER PART OF THE CONSTRUCTION PROCESS AND THE CODES THAT THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT, I WANNA START THIS PROCESS WHERE WE CAN HAVE THAT, 
          [01:15:01]
UH, ALLOW US TO DO SO. 
          UM, THE PACKET OF INFORMATION, I GAVE YOU A LOT OF STUFF, I'M SORRY. 
          BUT, UM, I DID WANT TO SHOW YOU EXISTING NEW, UM, AND, UH, THE, THE MAIN DOCUMENT THAT I WANTED TO DISCUSS WERE, WAS A SIGNIFICANT CHANGES FROM THE 18 CODE AMENDMENTS TO THE 2024, UH, CODE AMENDMENTS. 
          UM, AND THEN I DID INCLUDE A COST ANALYSIS FROM THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF HOME BUILDERS. 
          UH, THEY DO THIS EVERY CODE CYCLE. 
          THEY HIRE THIS GROUP TO DO, UH, THIS VERY SAME REPORT. 
          UM, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT IT, UM, BUT BETWEEN THE TWO CODE CYCLES. 
          UM, AND, AND THIS REPORT IS KIND OF HARD TO READ, UM, BUT IT, IT'LL TELL YOU IN THE INTRO THAT TABLE TWO IS THE TABLE WHICH IDENTIFIES THE COST CHANGES FOR WHAT THEY IDENTIFIED AS, AS THE SPECIFIC CHANGED CODE SECTIONS THAT WOULD APPLY TO MOST HOUSES IN A CERTAIN AREA. 
          SO WHEN I SAY A CERTAIN AREA, UH, THEY IDENTIFY DIFFERENT CLIMATE ZONES. 
          WE ARE CLIMATE ZONE FOUR. 
          UM, AND WHEN I SAY SECTIONS THAT WOULD, UH, UH, BE INCORPORATED INTO THE BUILDING OF MOST BUILDINGS, I'M TALKING ABOUT THINGS SUCH AS EVERY HOUSE IS GONNA HAVE, UH, A, A BUILDING PAPER. 
          EVERY HOUSE IS GONNA HAVE A FOUNDATION, EVERY HOUSE. 
          BUT THERE ARE CODE CHANGES THAT ADDRESS THINGS THAT NOT EVERY HOUSE IS GONNA HAVE. 
          SO THERE ARE CODE CHANGES THAT SAY, WELL, IF YOU'RE GONNA DO THIS, HERE'S A CODE THAT ADDRESSES IT. 
          SO THE CHANGES THAT YOU SEE IN THIS REPORT IN TABLE TWO ARE THOSE COMMONALITIES FOR ALL HOMES AND WHAT THEY IDENTIFIED IN, UH, CLIMATE ZONES, UH, THREE AND FOUR, WHICH INCLUDES LOS ANGELES, SEATTLE, NEW YORK. 
          AND WE'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, WE COULD, WE COULD ARGUE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LESS HUMID THAN THIS OR MORE, BUT WITH A REPORT LIKE THIS, THIS IS WHERE THE CLOSEST WHERE WE FIT, AND IT IS BASED UPON CLIMATE ZONES. 
          AND WE KNOW THAT WE ARE THE SAME CLIMATE ZONE, CLIMATE ZONE FOUR. 
          AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE COST RANGES OF HIGH TO LOW, THE IDENTIFIED, AND BECAUSE DIFFERENT AREA'S GONNA HAVE DIFFERENT COSTS FOR LABOR, DIFFERENT COSTS FOR, FOR, UH, MATERIAL AND SO ON, UM, THAT THE CHANGES BETWEEN THE 18 AND THE 21 ON THE HIGH SIDE WAS $5,927. 
          AND THE LOW SIDE 1,404, WHEN YOU FACTOR IN THE CHANGES BETWEEN THE 2021 CODE AND THE 2024 CODES, THE 2024 CODES ACTUALLY WERE LESS, THEY ACTUALLY WENT DOWN IN COST FROM THE 2020 ONES. 
          SO ON THE HIGH SIDE OF THINGS, THEY WENT DOWN $13 . 
          UM, ON THE LOW SIDE OF THINGS, THEY WENT DOWN $2,227. 
          SO, UH, CULMINATING IN A TOTAL CHANGE BASED UPON THESE TWO REPORTS FOR THESE COMMON CHANGES IN THE CODES OF ALMOST $6,000 IN THE HIGH SIDE OF, UH, ADDITIONAL COST TO BUILDING A HOME AND A SAVINGS OF $823 ON THE LOW SIDE. 
          STEVE, YOU HAD, WHENEVER YOU TALKED ABOUT THAT, AND WHEN I LOOKED IN THE PACKET, IT SEEMS THAT MOSTLY THESE NUMBERS ARE FOR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. 
          HOW DOES THAT WORK FOR MULTI-FAMILY OR COMMERCIAL? UM, THEY DO NOT DO THE REPORT ON MULTI-FAMILY AND COMMERCIAL. 
          AND THAT'S PART OF WHAT I WANT TO DISCUSS WITH THE GENTLEMAN FROM ICC IS, AND MY QUESTION TO HIM WAS, DO YOU HAVE A PROCESS WHERE YOU IDENTIFY WHAT THESE COSTS ARE, COST INCREASES ARE PER, AND, UM, THE CLOSEST I'VE GOTTEN TO AN ANSWER WAS A, A VOICEMAIL SAYING THAT, WELL, WE USE A DIFFERENT PROCESS AND I REALLY NEED, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO GET TOGETHER AND DISCUSS THAT PROCESS. 
          SO I, I DON'T HAVE THAT ANSWER FOR YOU. 
          UM, BUT THE HOME BUILDERS ASSOCIATION, UM, LIKE I SAID, THIS, THIS IS THE CONSTANT, UH, DOCUMENT 
          [01:20:01]
THAT GETS DONE AT EVERY CODE CHANGE. 
          UM, AND LIKE I SAID, WE, 75% OF OUR, AND, AND I'M ROUNDING OFF 75% OF OUR PERMITS AND CONSTRUCTION WITHIN SEDONA IS SINGLE FAMILY. 
          UH, WHETHER IT'S NEW HOMES OR WHETHER IT'S ALTERATIONS OR ADDITIONS. 
          AND JUST FROM YOUR CONSIDERATION OF THE CODE CHANGES, ARE THERE ANY THINGS IN THERE THAT WE SHOULD BE AWARE OF THAT CHANGE SIGNIFICANTLY FOR MULTIFAMILY AND COMMERCIAL? UM, NO. 
          IN FACT, UM, THE, THE COMMERCIAL CODES HAD A LOT FEWER CHANGES THAN THE RESIDENTIAL CODE DID. 
          UM, AND, UH, AND IN FACT, WHEN YOU LOOK AT MY DOCUMENT OF AMENDMENT CHANGES, AND UM, I CAN, I CAN, I CAN, IN FACT, WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS, UM, AND I'M SORRY I DIDN'T INCLUDE IT, BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO ADD ANOTHER 80 PAGES TO WHAT YOU NEEDED TO READ, BUT I DO HAVE A DOCUMENT THAT IDENTIFIES THE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES IN EACH OF THE CODES BETWEEN 2018 AND 2024. 
          YES. 
          SO I CAN, I CAN SEND THAT TO YOU, UM, UH, THIS WEEK. 
          UH, HOW DIFFICULT MIGHT IT BE FOR YOU TO THINK ABOUT SUNSET LOFTS AND DOING THE COST CHANGE NEW CODES TO HOW IT WAS BUILT? YEAH. 
          UM, SO SUNSET LOFTS WOULD HAVE BENEFITED FROM THE ALLOWANCE FOR THE ALUMINUM WIRING. 
          UM, BUT, BUT FOR THE WAY THAT THAT STRUCTURE WAS BUILT, I'M NOT AWARE OF ANYTHING THAT WOULD'VE CHANGED THOSE COSTS IN THE NEW CODES. 
          THANK YOU. 
          SORRY. 
          SINCE THAT LOFTS OR VILLAS ON SHELBY VILLAS ON SHELBY IS WHAT I, I KNEW. 
          THANK YOU. 
          EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEANT, THAT THE OTHER ONE HASN'T BEEN BUILT YET. 
          YEAH. 
          THANK YOU FOR THAT BECAUSE I, I JUMPED STRAIGHT TO THE VILLAS OF SHELBY, AND THAT'S WHERE I, WE WERE ON THE SAME WAVELENGTH. 
          YES. 
          . 
          SO THAT COUPLE, UM, AND THEN, LIKE I SAID, I, I INCLUDED THE SIG REPORT, JUST SO IF YOU WANTED TO, YOU COULD UNDERSTAND WHICH ONES WE WERE GONNA BE BRINGING FORTH THAT WOULD, UH, UH, AFFECT, UH, THE BUILDING CODES. 
          BUT I WASN'T REALLY, UM, GOING TO ASK, UH, TO DISCUSS THOSE AT THIS, AT THIS MEETING. 
          'CAUSE THEY'LL DO BE DISCUSSED AT, AT, UM, AT THAT MEETING. 
          UM, AND THEN THE LAST THING HERE THAT I INCLUDED WAS THE HOME HARDENING SECTION OF THE 2024 WOOEY CODE. 
          AND WE WILL BE COMING FORTH TO YOU VERY SHORTLY IN JUNE, UM, TO BRING FORTH OUR FIRE SAFE SEDONA PROGRAM. 
          AND, UH, WE WILL BE MEETING WITH OUR COUNSELOR COUNCIL CHAMPION, UH, COUNSELOR FURMAN, UH, TOMORROW ON THIS PROGRAM. 
          AND THEN AGAIN, COMING BEFORE COUNCIL, UH, IN JUNE, UH, TO DISCUSS IT IN FULL. 
          AND, UM, SO I ALSO WANTED TO, UH, IDENTIFY THAT THERE IS THIS, WELL, YOU ALL KNOW WHAT THE WWE CODE IS. 
          I BELIEVE, UH, THE FIRE DISTRICT HAS BEEN APPLYING THE WOOWEE CODE WITHIN THE WWE DISTRICT FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS OR SO. 
          AND, UM, THE WWE DISTRICT IN SEDONA IS EVERY PROPERTY THAT TOUCHES WITHIN EIGHTH, ONE EIGHTH OF A MILE OF THE FOREST, UH, NATIONAL FOREST LAND. 
          UM, SO THAT IS, IS THEIR IDENTIFICATION OF THEIR WWE DISTRICT. 
          AND WHEN A, A BUILDING IS IN THE WWE DISTRICT, THEY APPLY THIS SECTION. 
          SO, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WANTED TO DO WAS KIND OF MESH THE DISCUSSION TONIGHT WITH THE DISCUSSION, UH, IN JUNE THAT WE'RE GONNA BRING FORTH ON WHETHER OR NOT, UH, COUNCIL WANTED TO INCLUDE, UH, THIS SECTION IN ALL NEW HOMES, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY WERE IN THE WILLIE UH, DISTRICT OR NOT. 
          UM, AND, UH, UH, IF YOU WANTED TO JUST WAIT FOR THAT DISCUSSION UNTIL JUNE, I'M FINE WITH THAT TOO, UM, BECAUSE OF TIME. 
          UM, BUT THAT IS WHY IT'S IN YOUR PACKET. 
          CAN I ASK ONE QUESTION? OKAY. 
          UM, WHEN I WAS READING THAT PART, I WASN'T SURE IF I WAS UNDERSTANDING IT CORRECTLY, ARE, WOULD IT DISALLOW THE USE OF LIKE TREXS COMPOSITE WOOD TYPE THINGS? SO, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. 
          YOU'VE BEEN DOING 
          [01:25:01]
YOUR RESEARCH ? UM, YES AND NO. 
          SO, UM, WHAT IT SAYS IS YOU CANNOT HAVE A FLAMMABLE MATERIAL, UM, TREXS AND OTHER COMPANIES DO MAKE A MATERIAL THAT MEETS THE NON-COMBUSTIBLE, UH, REQUIREMENTS, UH, OF THE WWE. 
          SO THAT'S WHERE THE YES AND NO COMES IN. 
          IS THAT ADDRESSED IN, OKAY, I'M IN THE PACKET, PAGE 1 0 2, WHICH REALLY BRINGS YOU TO THE CHANGES THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING. 
          OKAY. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND SOME OF THESE CHANGES ARE ALLOWING FOR THE DIFFERENT MATERIALS. 
          SO THE QUESTION THAT WAS JUST ASKED, IS THAT ADDRESSED IN HERE? SO IT'S ADDRESSED IN GENERAL IN THE SENSE THAT IF A MATERIAL MEETS THE STANDARD FOR BEING NON-COMBUSTIBLE, THEN YOU CAN USE IT IF A AND MAYBE I'M NOT ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION PROPERLY. 
          I, OKAY. 
          FOR EXAMPLE, EACH APPENDIX THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE ADOPTED INDIVIDUALLY, SPEAKS TO A DIFFERENT CONSTRUCTION METHOD. 
          SOME ARE, UM, HEMPCRETE, OTHERS IS MONOLITHIC ADOBE. 
          I, I, WHAT I WANNA KNOW IS HOW, IS THERE SOMETHING OVERARCHING THAT WE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT'S BEING ALLOWED? AND AGAIN, IS IT SOMETHING THAT'S GOING, WILL EVERYTHING MEET A SAFETY RECORD AND ALLOW BUILDERS MORE FLEXIBILITY AND THEREFORE, YOU KNOW, SAVE MONEY FOR THEM AS WELL? I'M TRYING TO BRING, 'CAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION HERE, AND I'M TRYING TO BRING IT BACK INTO A, A, UH, MORE LIKE A GERMANE YES. 
          QUESTION FOR US. 
          I, I LOVE THE WAY YOU GUYS THINK. 
          UM, SO YES, WE WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW THIS APPLIES TO EACH OF THOSE. 
          SO YOU MENTIONED THE COB, THE MONOLITHIC MM-HMM . 
          UM, ADOBE STYLE. 
          UM, ADOBE IS A, UH, A RESISTANT MATERIAL, A FIRE RESISTANT MATERIAL. 
          UM, SO IN THAT SENSE, IF WE WERE TO APPLY THIS SECTION 5 0 4 OF THE WOOEY, WE WOULDN'T BE LOOKING AT THE ADOBE PORTION OF IT. 
          WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT WHAT IS THE EXTERIOR SITING MATERIAL THAT YOU PUT ON THAT? IS THAT GONNA BE WOOD OR IS THAT GONNA BE A NON-COMBUSTIBLE MATERIAL? SO THE MONOLITHIC ADOBE IS, UH, GENERALLY, UM, GOING TO BE, UH, SHEATH ON THE EXTERIOR AND THE IN, IN THE INTERIOR. 
          UH, BUT ADOBE ITSELF, IF IT WERE EXPOSED, IS A NON-COMBUSTIBLE MATERIAL. 
          AND IF YOU WERE TO PUT A SIDING ON IT, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A NON-COMBUSTIBLE SIDING, WHETHER IT, IT IT'D BE A HARDY BOARD PRODUCT, UH, WHICH IS AMECHE TYPE PRODUCT THAT'S WELL USED FOR, FOR SIDING. 
          SO THAT'S THE WAY WE WOULD LOOK AT IT. 
          WHAT TYPE OF WINDOWS ARE YOU USING IN THAT MONOLITHIC ADOBE STRUCTURE? IS IT DOUBLE PANE GOOD, BUT ALLOWING FOR MORE TYPES OF MATERIALS, WHICH THIS WOULD DO, DOESN'T CHANGE THE LEVEL OF REVIEW, IS THAT CORRECT? BECAUSE YOU'LL, YOUR STAFF WOULD STILL BE LOOKING AT THESE THINGS AND DETERMINING IF THEY, IF THEY MEET IT OR NOT. 
          SO THERE'S NOT A PRACTICAL CHANGE FOR AN APPLICANT, IS THAT CORRECT? UM, NO. 
          THE PRACTICAL CHANGE WILL BE THE DECISION ON MATERIALS. 
          UM, IF WE WERE TO ADOPT THIS SECTION OF THE WWE CODE, THEN THAT SECTION WOULD SAY, NO, YOU CAN'T USE WOOD SIDING. 
          UM, STEVE, WERE YOU PLANNING TO GO THROUGH THE CHANGES IN OUR PACKET? YES, I THINK IT'S TIME TO MOVE ON TO THAT. 
          OKAY. 
          THANKS. 
          THANK YOU. 
          HAVE TO SWITCH COMPUTERS. 
          WILL YOU BE GOING THROUGH THE, THE WRITTEN DOCUMENT OR THROUGH YOUR CHART? UH, THROUGH THE CHART, WHICH IS ON THROUGH THE CHART, WHICH IS ON 1 0 2. 
          YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. 
          YES. 
          SO AGAIN, THESE ARE WHAT I WOULD IDENTIFY AS THE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES, UM, NOT INCLUDING ANYTHING THAT, UM, THAT 
          [01:30:01]
WAS JUST A SECTION CHANGE OR A WORD CHANGE OR, UH, SO THIS IS PART, YEAH. 
          THANK YOU. 
          DO YOU WANT SWITCHING OVER TO YOUR COMPUTER OR WE COULD, UM, CAN I JUST GO DIRECTLY? YEAH. 
          YES. 
          THERE WE GO. 
          OKAY. 
          CAN YOU MAKE THE TYPE BIGGER? SURE. 
          IS THAT BETTER? OKAY. 
          SO, UM, STARTING WITH THE INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE, AS I SAID, THERE WERE NOT A WHOLE LOT OF SIGNIFICANT CHANGES IN THE IBC. 
          UM, AND THE ONE CHANGE THAT WE MADE, UH, IN THE AMENDMENTS, UH, WAS FOR A WORK EXEMPT FROM PERMIT. 
          AND, UM, THE CURRENT CHANGE SAID THAT A WATER TANK OF 5,000 GALLONS OR LESS ON A PROPERTY WOULD NOT NEED TO HAVE, UH, A PERMIT. 
          AND LOOKING AT THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE LDC, UM, AND DOING A, UH, SOME MATH ON, ON WHAT A TYPICAL, UH, SIZE OF, OF TANK THAT WOULD BE, UM, I WENT TO THE OPPOSITE OF AT A TWO TO ONE RATIO, A FOUR FOOT DIAMETER TANK WOULD BE EIGHT FEET IN HEIGHT. 
          UM, AND THAT SIZE WOULD BE JUST OVER 750 GALLONS. 
          SO NOW WE'RE TALKING, IF WE'RE ALLOWING A 5,000 GALLON TANK ON SAY, A QUARTER ACRE OR, OR, YOU KNOW, UH, THREE EIGHTHS OF AN ACRE PROPERTY OR, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A VERY LARGE STRUCTURE THAT, UM, UH, WE WOULD WANT TO, I THINK, VERIFY MANY THINGS, UH, WHETHER IT BE, UH, HEIGHT, UH, CLOSENESS TO A PROPERTY LINE. 
          UM, WE GET COMPLAINTS ALREADY ON STRUCTURES, BLOCKING VIEWS, AND NOW WE'RE GONNA HAVE A, YOU KNOW, A 12 BY 12 BY WHATEVER. 
          UM, SO ANYWAY, SO THIS CHANGE IS TO LIMIT, UH, THE ALLOWANCE TO PUT IN A WATER TANK OF, UH, 800 GALLONS OR LESS, THE ALLOWANCE NOT TO HAVE TO GET A PERMIT, BECAUSE THE SIZE OF THAT WOULD BE IN LINE WITH A LOT OF OTHER STRUCTURES THAT WE PERMIT. 
          THEN VERY QUICKLY, UM, WE JUMPED TO THE RESIDENTIAL CODE, AND I TALKED ABOUT ALL THE APPENDICES THAT I HAD TO ADOPT IF WE WANT TO ENFORCE THEM. 
          SO WE HAVE THE COBB CONSTRUCTION, THE HEMP LINE, UH, OR HEMP CREEK CONSTRUCTION, 3D PRINTED BUILDING CONSTRUCTION, ZERO NET ENERGY RESIDENTIAL BUILDING PROVISIONS. 
          AGAIN, THESE ARE NOT REQUIREMENTS, IT'S THAT IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO THIS, THIS ALLOWS US, UH, THIS, THIS IDENTIFIES STANDARDS BY WHICH THEY SHOULD BE DONE. 
          UM, ELECTRIC ENERGY STORAGE PROVISIONS, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT. 
          UM, AND, UH, WE'VE, UH, STOPPING THERE, UH, WE AMENDED THE APPENDIX IN A COUPLE AREAS OF THE CODE, UH, BASED UPON OUR DISCUSSIONS WITH THE SEDONA FIRE DISTRICT WHEN IT COMES TO THESE BATTERY STORAGE, UH, UH, DEVICES THAT, UM, THEY ASKED AND WE AGREED, UH, TO NOT PERMIT THESE BATTERIES WITHIN THE HABITABLE PORTIONS OF THE HOMES. 
          AND, UM, SO THIS AMENDMENT IS SAYING, IF, IF YOU WANT THE BATTERIES AND YOU WANT TO PUT IT IN YOUR GARAGE, 
          [01:35:01]
SURE, GO AHEAD AND DO SO, BUT PLEASE PUT IT ON THE EXTERIOR WALL, NOT THE CONTIGUOUS WALL WITH THE HOUSE. 
          AND THERE ARE STANDARDS IN THE CODES THAT WILL IDENTIFY REQUIREMENTS FOR, UH, PHYSICALLY PROTECTING THEM SO A CAR DOESN'T RUN INTO THEM AND CREATE AN ISSUE. 
          UM, SO YES, IF I MAY, STEVE, AND I APOLOGIZE ABOUT GOING BACK TO THE WATER TANKS. 
          I'M PARTICULARLY CURIOUS ABOUT THAT. 
          IT'S ONE THING THAT CAUGHT MY ATTENTION, AND, YOU KNOW, YOU ARGUE IN HERE ABOUT LIMITING IT BECAUSE OF THE DIAMETER FOUR FOOT DIAMETER TANK WOULD BE EIGHT FEET TALL. 
          BUT IF YOU GO TO HOME DEPOT AT A 3000 GALLON WATER TANK IS BIGGER THAN FOUR FEET DIAMETER AND IT'S EIGHT FEET TALL. 
          SO I'M JUST CURIOUS OF HOW, YOU KNOW, AND GIVEN EVERYONE'S FUTURE STRESS ABOUT WATER. 
          SURE. 
          SO HOW DID THAT FACTOR IN YOUR THINKING AS SORT OF A COMMONLY AVAILABLE PRODUCT? YES, WE'RE GONNA SAY NO TO. 
          YES. 
          I THINK IT WAS JUST THE ALLOWANCE AGAIN, THAT ONCE YOU GET INTO THE STRUCTURE THAT'S EIGHT FEET TALL, BUT WHAT WAS THE, THE WIDTH THAT YOU, 96 INCHES, 95 INCHES DIAMETER, AND 108 INCHES TALL. 
          SO EIGHT, EIGHT BY NINE. 
          SO, UM, NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT THE SIZE OF A TYPICAL SHED, AND WE REGULATE SHEDS BASED UPON SIZE, THAT IF A SHED IS LESS THAN 120 SQUARE FEET AND LESS THAN SEVEN FOOT IN HEIGHT, IT DOESN'T NEED A PERMIT. 
          SO I KIND OF USED THOSE GUIDELINES. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THIS IS SAYING WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT PREVENTING A BIGGER WATER TANK, THIS THING. 
          RIGHT. 
          YOU JUST NEED A PERMIT FOR IT. 
          CORRECT. 
          YES. 
          THANK YOU. 
          YOU'RE WELCOME. 
          UM, SO PLEASE STOP, I'M, I'M GONNA TRY TO, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF TIME, UH, LET ME KNOW IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT I'M, I'M RUNNING PAST, UH, WE HAD MENTIONED THAT WATER TANK ISSUE FROM THE IBC, WHAT'S IN THE IRC, UM, WORK EXEMPT FROM PERMIT ALSO INCLUDES FLAT WORK, SIDEWALKS AND DRIVEWAYS. 
          SO I'M PROPOSING, UH, AN AMENDMENT TO THAT TO SAY, WELL, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE STILL GONNA REQUIRE A PERMIT FOR ANYTHING THAT HAS A GAS OR ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION. 
          SO IF YOU HAVE A PATIO, BUT YOU'RE RUNNING A GAS LINE FOR A BARBECUE, OR YOU'RE RUNNING ELECTRIC FOR LIGHTING ON THAT PATIO, WE STILL WANT THOSE PERMITS. 
          AND THEN, UH, WANNA RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT A SPORT COURT COULD BE CONSIDERED, YOU KNOW, A, A FLAT SURFACE, RIGHT? A, A PATIO OR, OR SOMETHING. 
          SO A SPORT COURT REQUIRES A CUP. 
          SO I WANTED TO AMEND THAT ONTO THE BUILDING CODE, NOT TO CONFLICT WITH THE LDC. 
          WAIT, WAIT, , SO YOU'RE SAYING, UH, THE SPORT COURTS WOULD NOT REQUIRE CUP ANYMORE? NO, NO, NO. 
          WHAT I'M SAYING IS THE AME, UH, THE CODE SAYS THESE THINGS, SIDEWALKS, DRIVEWAYS, PATIOS DON'T REQUIRE A PERMIT. 
          AND I DIDN'T WANT SOMEBODY TO TAKE THAT AND SAY, WELL, THIS IS NOTHING BUT A LARGE PATIO. 
          UM, SO I DIDN'T WANT IT TO CONFLICT WITH WHAT THE LDC SAYS. 
          SO IF IT REQUIRES A CUP OKAY, THEN YEAH, YEAH. 
          I JUST, I, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT SOMEONE WASN'T GONNA TRY TO USE THE BUILDING CODE TO SAY, WELL, I DON'T NEED A PERMIT. 
          'CAUSE THIS SAYS THAT, AND THIS IS A FLAT SURFACE THAT IS SIMILAR TO A PATIO. 
          CAN A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT LAST IN MEMORIAM IF THERE'S NO CHANGES? OR DOES IT HAVE A FIXED DATE FOR, UM, EITHER RENEWAL, EITHER IT'S UP TO, UH, THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION TO DECIDE THAT. 
          OKAY. 
          BUT RESIDENTIAL, I'M THINKING, WELL, IF A CUP IS REQUIRED, UM, IT IS UP TO, UH, UH, P AND Z TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT IS IN PERPETUITY, UM, OR IF THERE'S GOING TO BE, WE HAVE, UH, SEVERAL COOPS THAT I HAVE SEEN, BUT THIS IS A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY. 
          SINGLE FAMILY BUILTS A PATIO. 
          THEY HAVE TO GO TO PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION IF IT IS A SPORT COURT. 
          THE THOUGHT BEHIND THIS CHANGE WAS TO ADDRESS THE PICKLEBALL COURTS AND CONVERSIONS. 
          OH, RIGHT. 
          TO THE PICKLEBALL COURTS. 
          OH, BUT HE WAS, STEVE WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT A PATIO WITH LIGHTS. 
          YOU NEED A PERMIT. 
          NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. 
          I'M SORRY. 
          I'M CONFUSING EVERYBODY. 
          HERE YOU ARE. 
          . 
          SO 
          [01:40:02]
THE BASE CODE SECTION SAYS THAT IF IT IS A PATIO, A DRIVEWAY, A SIDEWALK, YOU DON'T NEED A PERMIT. 
          AND I'M ADDING TO THAT TO SAY, WELL, EVEN THOUGH A SPORT COURT, YOU COULD DEFINE IT AS A PATIO, IT'S JUST A BIG PATIO WITH A NET ON IT. 
          UM, I DIDN'T WANT PEOPLE TO USE THE BUILDING CODE TO CIRCUMVENT THE REQUIREMENTS FOR A CUP FOR A SPORT COURT. 
          OKAY, THANK YOU. 
          YOU'RE WELCOME. 
          AND I DIDN'T WANT, SAME THING. 
          I DIDN'T WANT SOMEBODY TO SAY, WELL, I DON'T NEED A PERMIT BECAUSE IT SAYS SO RIGHT HERE, YET I'M PUTTING UP ALL THESE LIGHTS AND, YOU KNOW, SO ANYWAY, UM, UH, SUBSTANTIAL IMPROVEMENT IMPROVEMENT, UH, THAT ACTUALLY GETS USED, UH, IN, UH, UH, FLOODWAYS FLOODPLAINS. 
          UM, IT'S A DEFINITION OF, UH, IF YOU'RE GONNA SUBSTANTIALLY IMPROVE YOUR FACILITY MORE THAN 50%, UH, IN A FLOODWAY, UH, FLOODPLAIN, UM, THAT, UH, UH, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO RAISE THAT HOUSE TO A LEVEL THAT'S A FOOT ABOVE THAT IS A GENERAL REQUIREMENT FOR, FOR BUILDINGS. 
          AND THIS IS JUST A DEFINITION OF WHAT SUBSTANTIAL IMPROVEMENT IS. 
          AND, UH, IN TALKING WITH STAFF, UM, IT SEEMS THAT, UH, UH, MARKET RATES FLUCTUATE SO MUCH, WHEREAS CONSTRUCTION COSTS, UH, DON'T, SO WE'RE GONNA USE CONSTRUCTION COSTS AS THAT 50% DIFFERENCE OR DECISION, UH, GROUND SNOW LOAD. 
          THIS IS ONE OF THOSE DESIGN CRITERIA THAT WE USE TO IDENTIFY, THIS IS HOW YOU BUILD A BUILDING IN THIS AREA. 
          SO, UM, PREVIOUS CODES FOR THE CITY OF SEDONA, UM, THE AMENDMENTS HAS HAVE IDENTIFIED A GROUND SNOW LOAD OF 25, UM, THROUGH TESTING AND THROUGH THE MAPS IN THIS CODE, WE REALIZE THAT'S TOO HIGH. 
          SO, AGAIN, AS, UH, WE DON'T WANT TO MAKE SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING, UH, THAT IS NOT THE MINIMUM OF THE CODE, UM, THAT, UH, SO WE WE'RE LOWERING THAT TO 20 POUNDS PER SQUARE FOOT AS OUR GROUND SNOW LOAD DESIGN CRITERIA. 
          AND THE SAME THING WITH OUR WIND LOAD CRITERIA. 
          UM, THIS WAS A CHANGE IN THE CODES THEMSELVES. 
          SO IT USED TO BE 115 MILE PER HOUR ULTIMATE WIND SPEED, UH, THAT YOU WOULD DEEM TO DESIGN A STRUCTURE BY. 
          UM, THE CODES THEMSELVES CHANGE THEIR OWN MAPS TO SAY, NO, WE'RE, UH, THIS AREA IS NOW AT 105, AND THESE ARE COMMONALITIES WITH ALL THE MUNICIPALITIES IN THE AREA. 
          WE'RE ALL USING THE SAME DESIGN CRITERIA. 
          IF, IF I CAN, STEVE, IF I CAN REQUEST, BECAUSE I KNOW IT'S SIX 15, UM, IF WE CAN GO AHEAD AND HIT, UH, BECAUSE I KNOW YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO GIVE A FULL EXPLANATION FOR EACH ONE OF THESE, BUT IF WE CAN HIT THE HIGH POINTS FOR EACH ONE, UM, BECAUSE WE'RE, WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO ANSWER OR ASK ANY QUESTIONS. 
          SURE. 
          ABSOLUTELY. 
          UM, SO I WILL RUN THROUGH HERE AND JUST IDENTIFY WHAT I THINK ARE, ARE THE MAIN THINGS. 
          UM, SO WE TALKED ABOUT STORAGE BATTERIES ALREADY. 
          UM, CRAWLSPACE, UH, THE CODE REQUIRES THAT IF YOU HAVE A CRAWLSPACE, AND IT IS, UH, GOING TO BE USED FOR STORAGE, UH, THAT YOU HAVE TO PROTECT THE UNDERSIDE OF THAT FLOORING IF THEY ARE TRUSSES OR EYE JOISTS, BECAUSE THOSE ARE ENGINEERED PIECES OF THE LUMBER. 
          AND IF YOU DAMAGE ONE PIECE OF THAT, THE ENTIRE ASSEMBLY, UH, CAN HAVE AN INSTANT COLLAPSE AS OPPOSED TO, UM, A DIMENSIONAL LUMBER THAT IT CAN BURN, BURN, BURN, BURN. 
          JUST SLOWLY. 
          SO, BOTTOM LINE IS WE'VE IDENTIFIED, UH, A CRAWL SPACE, UH, BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAVE THAT DEFINITION. 
          WHAT IS CRAWLSPACE MEANT FOR STORAGE IS ANYTHING OVER 30 INCHES THAT ANYTHING OVER 30 INCHES, IT'S HIGH ENOUGH TO HAVE STORAGE WITHIN, UM, AUTOMATIC SPRINKLER SYSTEMS. WE AMEND THAT OUT BECAUSE THE STATE TELLS US TO, WE AS A MUNICIPALITY CANNOT REQUIRE A BUILDER TO PUT FIRE SPRINKLER SYSTEMS IN A SINGLE FAMILY HOME. 
          SO IT'S THE FIRE DISTRICT THAT HAS THAT ALLOWANCE, BUT THEY DO REQUIRE SPRINKLERS. 
          THE FIRE DISTRICT 
          [01:45:01]
DOES REQUIRE, UH, SPRINKLERS IN HOMES BASED UPON CERTAIN CRITERIA. 
          ONE OF THOSE IS A HOME THAT'S MORE THAN 3,600 SQUARE FOOT IN AREA OR A, IN A GATED COMMUNITY, OR THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF THINGS, ORS. 
          UM, BUT WHEN A SPRINKLER IS REQUIRED IN A HOME, IT'S NOT THROUGH OUR CODES. 
          IT'S THROUGH, UH, THEM MEETING. 
          ONE OF THE CRITERIA, UH, THAT THE FIRE DISTRICT HAS, WE AS A MUNICIPALITY, CANNOT REQUIRE FIRE SPRINKLERS IN SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. 
          UM, THIS IS A BIG ONE. 
          UH, THERE IS AN EXCEPTION IN THE RESIDENTIAL CODE TO SAY THAT A BEDROOM AND A BASEMENT DOES NOT NEED AN ESCAPE WINDOW OR AN ESCAPE DOOR IF THE BUILDING IS FULLY SPRINKLED. 
          UM, AND THERE IS AN ESCAPE, UH, DOOR WINDOW ELSEWHERE IN THE BASEMENT. 
          UM, I AM PROPOSING TO TAKE THIS OUT FOR TWO REASONS. 
          ONE, IT'S NOT, NO ONE'S BEEN ABLE TO EXPLAIN TO ME WHY IT'S SAFER IN A BASEMENT, NOT TO HAVE A WINDOW THAN IT IS. 
          WHY DO WE HAVE THIS REQUIREMENT ON THE MAIN FLOOR WHERE YOU CAN JUST STEP OUT, RIGHT? ON A GRADE LEVEL IN A BASEMENT, YOU HAVE TO CLIMB UP. 
          UM, EVEN IN A SPRINKLED HOME, YOU'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE EMERGENCY EGRESS FROM ALL BEDROOMS ON THE FIRST LEVEL, THE SECOND LEVEL, THE THIRD LEVEL. 
          BUT THEY HAVE THIS EXCEPTION IN BASEMENTS. 
          AND THE SECOND PART OF THAT IS WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF SHORT TERM RENTALS, UM, WHO HAVE USED, WE HAVE A SEARCH OF RENTAL IN MY HEAD RIGHT NOW. 
          THEY HAVE THREE ROOMS, NO WINDOWS IN THE ROOMS, NO DOORS TO THE OUTSIDE IN THE ROOMS, AND THEY'RE RENTING THEM OUT TO PEOPLE AS BEDROOMS. AND SO WE WANNA PUT IN AN AMENDMENT HERE TO SAY THAT, NO, IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BEDROOM, GIVE PEOPLE A WAY TO GET OUT OF THAT BEDROOM IF THERE'S A FIRE OUTSIDE THAT BEDROOM DOOR, THEN GIVE THEM ANOTHER WAY TO GET OUT. 
          AND SO THAT'S WHAT THIS AMENDMENT IS REQUESTING. 
          I, UM, SO WE TALK ABOUT, WE TALKED ABOUT, UM, REMOVING CHAPTER 11 OF THE 2024 IRC, UM, AND STICKING WITH CHAPTER 11 OF THE 2018, UH, FOR ENERGY SAVINGS TO, FOR PEOPLE TO SAVE, UH, MONEY DURING CONSTRUCTION AND NOT HAVE TO PUT IN THE ADDITIONAL INSULATION AND, AND OTHER REQUIREMENTS. 
          UM, SO WE TALKED ABOUT THE ALUMINUM. 
          THIS IS ANOTHER ONE WHERE THE FOCUS GROUP WAS VERY HAPPY THAT WE WERE GONNA BE ALLOWING ALUMINUM FOR FEEDERS AND, UH, AND SERVICE ENTRANCE CONDUCTORS, UH, AGAIN, FOR, UH, COST AND CON LOWERING THE COST OF CONSTRUCTION. 
          THIS IS WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, THAT THE CODE NOW GIVES THE ALLOWANCE TO, UH, NOT PUT ANY RECEPTACLE IN AN ISLAND OR, UM, OR PENINSULA IN THE KITCHEN. 
          BUT THE CHANGE HERE IS THE, THE CURRENT CODE OF 2024 SAID IF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT A RECEPTACLE IN, IT HAS TO BE, UH, ONE THAT'S IN THROUGH THE, UH, THE COUNTER ITSELF, SO LIKE A POP-UP OR A DOGHOUSE. 
          AND THE BUILDERS DIDN'T LIKE THAT. 
          THE CURRENT CODE ALLOWS THEM TO PUT A RECEPTACLE IN THE SIDE OF THE CABINET AS LONG AS THE, UM, COUNTER DOES NOT EXTEND MORE THAN SIX INCHES. 
          SO, UM, THEY'VE ASKED THAT WE KEEP THAT ALLOWANCE, UH, AND, UH, WE, WE ARE PROPOSING THAT LITTLE BIT OF WIRING AGAIN IN A DIFFERENT SECTION. 
          UM, SO THAT'S ALL THE SAME THINGS HERE. 
          NOW, WE GO INTO THE INTERNATIONAL MECHANICAL CODE NOW, AND, UH, THERE'S A SECTION IN THE IRC THAT, UH, THAT IS NOT CARRIED OVER TO THE IMC AS FAR AS AMENDMENTS, UH, THAT, UH, AN UNDERCUT OF A DOOR, UH, CANNOT BE USED AS YOUR RETURN AIR PATH BECAUSE IT'S NEVER ENOUGH. 
          AND IT CAUSES DIFFERENT PRESSURE CHANGES WITHIN THE ROOMS, LESS EFFICIENCIES ON THE EQUIPMENT, LESS EFFICIENCIES ON THE ENERGY THAT YOU'RE USING. 
          SO, UM, WHETHER IT'S, UH, UH, TRANSFER GRILLS, TRANSFER DUCTS, OR 
          [01:50:01]
DIRECTLY DEDUCTED RETURN AIR, THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S, UH, IDENTIFYING, UM, ENERGY CODE AGAIN, OH, HERE'S, HERE'S ONE WE ARE, AS FAR AS THE ENERGY CODE GOES. 
          UM, WE ARE SPLIT UP OBVIOUSLY BY TWO COUNTIES. 
          COCONINO COUNTY IS CLIMATE ZONE FIVE. 
          YAVAPAI COUNTY IS CLIMATE ZONE FOUR. 
          CLIMATE ZONE FIVE HAS HIGHER REQUIREMENTS IN THE ENERGY CODE. 
          WE ARE PROPOSING THAT THE ENTIRE CITY JUST BE IDENTIFIED AS CLIMATE ZONE FOUR. 
          AGAIN, IT COST SAVINGS. 
          AND JUST BECAUSE YOU WALK ACROSS THE STREET INTO COCONINO COUNTY DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOUR WEATHER HAS CHANGED. 
          SO THAT'S WHAT THIS AMENDMENT IS FOR . 
          THAT'S INTERESTING. 
          THEN WE GET INTO THE INTERNATIONAL SWIMMING POOL AND SPA CODE, THE CURRENT INTERNATIONAL SWIMMING POOL AND SPA CODE, AND THE 2024 ALLOWS THE USE OF A MOTORIZED POOL COVER TO BE THE SOLE BARRIER FOR THE POOL. 
          SO IF YOU HAVE AN A-S-T-M-F 1346 MOTORIZED POOL COVER THAT CAN, YOU DON'T NEED FENCES, YOU DON'T NEED GATES, YOU DON'T NEED LATCHES. 
          THAT IS THE ONLY BARRIER THAT YOU NEED. 
          SO WE WANT TO TAKE THAT OUT OF THE CODE. 
          WE JUST HAD A DROWNING IN THIS VERY SAME SITUATION IN, UH, LAST YEAR IN, UH, THE, THE VILLAGE. 
          UM, AND WE ARE FINDING THAT OUR SHORT TERM RENTAL OPERATORS WHO HAVE THIS AS THEIR ONLY BARRIER WILL OPEN UP THAT COVER, SAY FRIDAY MORNING WHEN THEY HAVE PEOPLE COMING FRIDAY AFTERNOON. 
          AND THAT WILL STAY OPEN THE ENTIRE WEEKEND. 
          UM, AND SO WE DON'T WANT ANY LONGER THIS TO BE THE SOLE BARRIER TO PREVENT CHILDREN FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, TO GETTING INTO THE POOLS. 
          SO THAT'S WHAT THIS AMENDMENT IS PROPOSING. 
          UM, AND THE OTHER PROPOSAL IS THAT THE KEY OPERATING MECHANISM SWITCH, WHATEVER FOR THAT COVER, WHICH WE STILL WOULD ALLOW TO BE THE BARRIER FROM THE HOUSE TO THE POOL, UM, THAT THAT HAS TO BE A 54 INCHES SO THAT KIDS CAN'T BE THE ONES TO OPERATE THAT. 
          AND THAT 54 INCH HEIGHT IS THE SAME HEIGHT FOR LATCHES ON A GATE, A BARRIER FENCE GATE. 
          SO THAT'S WHY WE CHOSE 54 INCHES. 
          AND, UH, WE TALKED ABOUT THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE COVER. 
          I'M SORRY. 
          I'M SORRY. 
          CAN YOU BACK TO 3 0 5 DASH 0.1 PLEASE? AND IN YOUR NOTES, YES. 
          THE VERY LAST SENTENCE, IF THE AMENDMENT IS APPROVED, UH, THE MOTORIZED POOL COVERS WILL ONLY BE ABLE TO BE USED AS A BARRIER TO ACCESS FROM THE HOUSE. 
          RIGHT? RIGHT. 
          THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I WAS, THAT'S, THAT'S CONTRARY TO WHAT YOU SAID, THE WORDING OF THAT. 
          AND THAT'S WHAT I, SO THAT'S, THAT WAS THE LAST THING I HAD STATED WAS THAT WHAT THIS IS SAYING IS THAT IT CAN'T BE USED AS THE SOLE BARRIER FOR ACCESS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT WE'RE PROPOSING THAT IT COULD BE USED AS THE BARRIER FROM THE HOUSE. 
          SO IF THE HOUSE IS PART OF THAT BARRIER, IE YOU HAVE A FENCE MAYBE THAT GOES AROUND YOUR PROPERTY, AROUND THE POOL, AND IT DOESN'T FULLY ENCLOSE THE POOL. 
          IT GOES FROM ONE CORNER OF THE HOUSE TO THE OTHER CORNER OF THE HOUSE. 
          THE CODE SAYS THAT YOU NEED A MEANS OF PROTECTING, UH, CHILDREN FROM COMING FROM THE HOUSE TO THE POOL. 
          AND ONE OF THOSE WAYS IS TO HAVE SELF-CLOSING, SELF LATCHING DOORS, UH, AND, AND, UH, UH, LOCKS ON WINDOWS AT A CERTAIN HEIGHT THAT ONLY ALLOW A CERTAIN, UH, DISTANCE FOR THAT WINDOW TO OPEN. 
          AND THE CODE CURRENTLY NOW ALSO ALLOWS THAT POOL COVER TO BE THAT BARRIER FROM THE HOUSE. 
          SO THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT BARRIERS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. 
          TWO DIFFERENT WAYS OF ACCESSING THE POOL THAT WE'RE USING BARRIERS FOR. 
          ONE IS TO ACCESS THE POOL FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, SO FROM THE OUTSIDE OF THE PROPERTY. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, AND THE OTHER IS THAT IF YOU ARE HAVING A FENCE OR A WALL AS THE BARRIER, AND THAT FENCE OR WALL DOES NOT FULLY ENCLOSE THE POOL, SO NOW YOUR HOUSE BASICALLY BECOMES PART OF THAT BARRIER, THAT WINDOWS AND DOORS THAT HAVE ACCESS TO THAT PORTION 
          [01:55:01]
OF THE YARD, THE CODE WOULD REQUIRE CERTAIN THINGS. 
          ONE OF THEM WOULD BE THAT SELF-CLOSING, SELF LATCHING REQUIREMENTS ON DOORS, WHICH IS, GETS VERY HARD TO DO WITH A LOT OF OUR HOUSES THAT HAVE THESE HUGE ACCORDION WINDOWS, UM, TO, TO TRY TO GET, UH, A MANUFACTURED WAY TO CLOSE THOSE DOORS AND SELF LATCH THEM. 
          SO, UH, ONE OF THE WAYS OF PROTECTING THAT IS THIS POOL COVER. 
          UM, AND SO NOW THE HOMEOWNER OR THE PROPERTY OWNER NOW WOULD HAVE THE ALLOWANCE TO USE THE POOL COVER AS THAT BARRIER FROM THE HOUSE, BUT NOT AS THE BARRIER FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD. 
          IS THAT, NO. 
          UM,  NO. 
          I'M SURE IT MADE COMPLETE SENSE TO YOU, BUT, UM, HOW, OKAY, THE HOUSE IS LOCKED UP. 
          YOU CAN ACCESS THE POOL FROM THE HOUSE, THERE'S A FENCE AROUND THE YARD, YOU KNOW, AND THE NEIGHBOR'S KID WANTS TO JUMP THE FENCE. 
          HOW IS THAT KID PROTECTED? ANYONE THAT CAN JUMP THE FENCE, UM, IS NOT GONNA BE PROTECTED. 
          OKAY. 
          THE FENCE IS REQUIRED TO BE FIVE FOOT IN HEIGHT. 
          IT'S REQUIRED TO HAVE OPENINGS SUCH THAT, UH, A CHILD CANNOT PUT FINGERS OR TOES AND USE IT AS A CLIMBING MECHANISM. 
          YOU'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE, UH, TREES AND EQUIPMENT, ANYTHING THAT THEY MIGHT USE AS A CLIMBING MECHANISM THREE FOOT AWAY FROM THE FENCE. 
          SO THAT BARRIER IS SUPPOSED TO BE AS NON CLIMBABLE AS POSSIBLE. 
          UM, AND THE GATES ARE SUPPOSED TO OPEN AWAY AND BE SELF-CLOSING SO THAT IF, IF IT CLOSES BUT DOESN'T FULLY LATCH AND THE KID COMES AND LEANS AGAINST IT, IT WILL LATCH AS OPPOSED TO OPEN AND ALLOW THEM TO GO INTO THE COOL AREA. 
          SO, OKAY. 
          SO THE PROTECTIONS ARE IN SOME OF THESE OTHER AREAS. 
          OKAY. 
          GOT IT. 
          OKAY. 
          THANKS. 
          UH, YOU'RE WELCOME. 
          . 
          AND THEN WE TALK ABOUT THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE. 
          UH, WE'RE WRITING OUT THE REQUIREMENTS FOR INSECT SCREENS BECAUSE THAT'S KIND OF, UH, KIND OF SILLY FOR THIS AREA. 
          UM, UH, THE, UH, WE WANT TO, UH, THERE THERE'S REQUIREMENTS FOR NATURAL LIGHTING AND VENTILATION, UH, IN THE, UH, PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE, WHICH ACTUALLY ARE A LITTLE BIT MORE STRICT THAN THE BUILDING CODES. 
          SO WE WANT TO OR DOESN'T PROVIDE THE OPTIONS THAT THE BUILDING CODES PROVIDE. 
          I SHOULDN'T SAY MORE STRICT. 
          SO THESE TWO, UH, AMENDMENTS ARE TO SAY, HEY, IF YOU CAN PROVE THAT YOU HAVE MECHANICAL VENTILATION, WHICH MEETS THE BUILDING CODE, OR, OR, UH, LIGHT ENOUGH LIGHTING WHICH MEETS THE BUILDING CODE, THEN YES, THE BUILDING CODE ALLOWS THOSE OPTIONS. 
          SO WHY SHOULDN'T WE ALLOW THOSE OPTIONS IN THIS CODE AS WELL? SO, UM, THAT IS IT. 
          THOSE ARE THE SIGNIFICANT CODE AMENDMENT CHANGES. 
          AND THAT'S EVERY CHANGE THAT'S BEING PROPOSED IS CAPTURED IN THIS CHART. 
          IT'S CAPTURED IN THIS CHART. 
          AND I JUST WENT OVER THE SIGNIFICANT ONES. 
          SIGNIFICANT. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, SORRY. 
          UM, SOME OF THE CHANGES IN THE AMENDMENTS WILL BE, THOSE, THOSE, SOME, SOME OF THE CHANGES IN THE AMENDMENTS WILL BE SECTION NUMBER CHANGES, BUT THESE ARE THESE SUBSTANTIVE RIGHT. 
          LANGUAGE CHANGES. 
          MM-HMM . 
          OKAY. 
          CAN I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION? IN THE DIGA GUIDELINES, ARE THERE ANY DIFFERENCES, UH, FOR THESE CODE REQUIREMENTS? THE DIGA GUIDELINES REFERENCE ALLOWANCES TO CHANGE OF THE LDC, NOT OF THE BUILDING CODE. 
          OKAY. 
          GOOD QUESTION. 
          OKAY, LET'S TURN THIS OVER TO THE PUBLIC. 
          TIM, THAT'S THE ONLY CARD I HAVE. 
          GOOD EVENING COUNSELORS. 
          MY NAME IS TIM PERRY AND I LIVE IN SEDONA. 
          WELL, WHAT'S BEEN QUITE ENTERTAINING THIS AFTERNOON, SITTING HERE AND WA LISTENING TO STEVE MYTEL LIE AFTER LIE AFTER LIE, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD THE CITY ADOPT THE 2024 I CODES AND THEIR AMENDMENTS FOR A LONG LIST OF REASONS. 
          LET'S START WITH THE FACT THAT WHILE I'M HEARING THESE CODES REFERRED TO OVER AND OVER AS LIFE SAFETY CODES, AMONG OTHER THINGS, YOUR CODES PERMIT THE CONSTRUCTION OF RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES OUT OF TWO BY FOURS AT 24 INCH SPACING. 
          WHEN I WAS A KID, THIS WAS HOW WE BUILT CHICKEN COOPS. 
          NORMAL HABITABLE STRUCTURES, AT 
          [02:00:01]
MINIMUM ARE CONSTRUCTED OUT OF TWO BY SIXES AT 16 INCHES, IDEALLY OUT OF TWO BY EIGHTS, TWO BY SIXES ARE USED FOR INTERIOR LOAD BEARING WALLS, TWO BY FOURS ARE NOT USED FOR LOAD BEARING ELEMENTS. 
          YOUR CODES PERMIT AND ENCOURAGE PATHETICALLY SHODDY CONSTRUCTION, NOT SAFETY. 
          THEN THERE'S A WHOLE BLOCK OF TEXT THAT STACK STAFF WROTE TO INSERT AS SECTION 1 0 7 0.1, WHICH WAS DELIBERATELY WRITTEN TO SET UP A CONFLICT BETWEEN CITY REGULATIONS AND STATE LAW PERMITTING OWNER BUILDER CONSTRUCTION. 
          A CONFLICT THAT STAFF WILL USE IN FUTURE YEARS TO CONTINUE TO TRY TO SUPPRESS OWNER BUILDER CONSTRUCTION UNTIL SUCH TIME AS AN ACTUAL WORKING PERSON MANAGES TO SUE THE CITY. 
          TO REMIND YOU THAT STATE LAW CONTROLS, THEN THERE ARE THE LITERAL PAGES OF PROHIBITIONS ON FIREPLACES AND WOOD STOVES, WHICH IS TRULY BREATHTAKING CONSIDERING THE AMOUNT OF SUSTAINABILITY BABEL THAT EMANATES FROM THIS COUNCIL AND STAFF. 
          IT'S AS IF YOU'RE ALL COMPLETELY IGNORANT TO THE FACT THAT BIOMASS IS THE ONLY SIGNIFICANT CARBON NEUTRAL, GENUINELY SUSTAINABLE ENERGY SOURCE WE HAVE. 
          AND THE WOOD STOVES AND FIREPLACES YOU DO PERMIT ARE AMONG THE MOST INEFFICIENT AND WASTEFUL OUT THERE. 
          THE NEW IRC IS GOING TO CONTAIN 15% MORE REGULATIONS THAN THE OLD ONE, WHICH MEANS 15% MORE CHANCES FOR INSPECTORS TO ARBITRARILY CHOOSE ONE OF THESE REGULATIONS TO CLAIM THAT SOMEONE HASN'T FOLLOWED, AND THEN USE THAT AS AN EXCUSE TO DENY AN APPROVAL AND EXTRA TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS MORE IN FEES. 
          AND AS FOR STEVE'S CLAIM THAT, UH, THE MAXIMUM COST INCREASE WE'RE LOOKING AT UNDER THIS, UH, CODE EDITION IS $6,000. 
          THAT IS ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS. 
          CONSIDERING THAT WHEN THE CITY ADOPTED THE 2018 I CODES, THERE WAS A 20% COST INCREASE. 
          THIS TIME IT'S GONNA BE 25 TO 30%. 
          UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD THE CITY ADOPT THESE CODES FOR 2024, AND IT SHOULD REPEAL THE 2018 I CODES. 
          SMALL TOWN SEDONA DOES NOT NEED BIG CITY BUILDING CODES. 
          I'M CLOSING THE PUBLIC FORUM. 
          PETE. 
          THANK YOU MAYOR. 
          I WANTED TO, UH, TURN MY ATTENTION TO TONY. 
          TONY, YOU'VE BEEN DOING A LOT OF WORK ON ATTAINABLE HOUSING, MISS MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING, MAYBE EVEN STARTER HOMES, AND, UH, WORKING THOSE CONCEPTS. 
          WHAT'S YOUR VIEW OF THESE CHANGES IN TERMS OF OUR ABILITY TO MAKE THAT MORE ATTAINABLE? I THINK WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO CONTINUE TO BE DILIGENT, UM, THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS AND ASK THOSE QUESTIONS. 
          UM, THE, THE ITEMS THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED, UM, SO FAR AREN'T NECESSARILY AT COST ADS IN IN MANY PLACES. 
          THERE ARE SOME THAT DO OBVIOUSLY. 
          UM, BUT THE THING I DO APPRECIATE IS THAT THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF ADDITIONS, UM, WITH THIS ITERATION OF THE CODE THAT DO ALLOW A LEVEL OF FLEXIBILITY THAT DIDN'T EXIST BEFORE IN, IN TERMS OF CODIFYING THOSE THINGS. 
          SO I THINK FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, IT'S A WIN. 
          UM, I DO WANT US TO CONTINUE TO, TO ASK OURSELVES THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS, UM, BOTH WITH THESE BUILDING CODES AND THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND UH, AND ON, UM, WHAT TYPES OF THINGS WE CAN BE DOING, UM, MORE EFFICIENTLY, THE THE OWNER BUILDER DISCUSSION, FOR EXAMPLE. 
          I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO BE ASKING OURSELVES. 
          YOU KNOW, WHAT, UH, YOU KNOW, HOW WE DEAL WITH THAT, UM, AND WHAT THE OPPORTUNITIES ARE THERE. 
          UM, IT'S, IT'S, WE NEED TO BE TESTING OURSELVES CONSISTENTLY TO ASK OURSELVES WHAT THINGS CAN WE CONTINUE TO DO, UM, TO ENSURE SAFETY, BUT AT THE SAME TIME ALLOW FLEXIBILITY FOR, FOR ATTAINABLE HOUSING. 
          SO, UM, YEAH, I PROBABLY OVER ANSWERED THE QUESTION AND I APOLOGIZE. 
          NO, NO, YOU DIDN'T. 
          AND YOU USED THE PHRASE, THIS PROCESS AND DOES THIS PROCESS MEAN THIS PROCESS THAT'S GONNA COME BACK TO US IN JULY AND WE NEED TO SPEND SOME MORE ATTENTION TO IT? OR ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THIS PROCESS THAT YOU'RE ENGAGED WITH THAT WILL FLOAT OVER A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME AND PERHAPS THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE WE START TO GO BACK AND CORRECT PERHAPS ELEMENTS IN THE BUILDING CODE THAT WE'VE NOW LEARNED PRESENT A A COST BARRIER TO WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE? YEAH, I THINK THE ANSWER IS YES TO BOTH. 
          UM, YEAH, PARTICULARLY, YOU'RE RIGHT. 
          IT'S GONNA BE A LONGER PROCESS TO SCRUTINIZE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE SECTIONS OF THE CODE AND ASK OURSELVES, YEAH, IS THIS NECESSARY? UM, AND, AND SO I THINK, I THINK WE DO BOTH. 
          AND SO HAVE YOU ALREADY GIVEN US YOUR 
          [02:05:01]
FEEDBACK FOR THIS PROCESS ABOUT ADOPTING THE BUILDING CODES? OR IS THAT STILL SOMETHING YOU'VE YET TO COMPLETE AND YOU'LL BE GIVING BACK FEEDBACK TO COUNCIL BEFORE WE ADOPT THESE? YEAH, WE DON'T, I HAVE NOT FINISHED THAT YET, SO WE'LL, WE'LL GO THROUGH THAT BEFORE YOUR MEETING IN JULY. 
          THANK YOU, KATHY. 
          SO STEVE, WHEN THIS COMES BACK, UM, WITH THIS CHART, IS IT POSSIBLE TO PUT ANOTHER COLUMN THAT WOULD GIVE THE DOLLAR IMPACT, NOT THE DOLLAR IMPACT, BUT THE ANTICIPATED THIS CHANGE? 'CAUSE THERE ARE SOME THINGS IN HERE THAT WOULD POTENTIALLY SAVE MONEY FOR BUILDERS SUCH AS ALLOWING, YOU KNOW, 3D PRINTING AND ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS. 
          AND THERE ARE THINGS IN HERE THAT, THAT COULD DO THAT. 
          AND THERE ARE OTHER THINGS IN HERE THAT WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THEM, AT FIRST GLANCE, WE WILL INCREASE BUILDING COSTS. 
          IS THERE A WAY TO PROVIDE THAT ANALYSIS IN THE NOTES, AN ADDITIONAL COLUMN OF, YOU KNOW, COST IMPACT? YOU KNOW, THIS WILL ADD TO BUILDING PROJECTS COSTS. 
          THIS COULD, WOULD BE NEUTRAL, THIS COULD LOWER BUILDING PROJECTS COSTS. 
          IS THERE A WAY THAT WE CAN HAVE THAT FOR CONSIDERATION? YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. 
          I CAN PUT ANOTHER COLUMN IN THERE. 
          I I, I AM NOT GONNA SAY THAT ON EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE, I'M GOING TO GET AN EXACT DOLLAR AMOUNT. 
          I DON'T NEED A DOLLAR AMOUNT EVEN. 
          I JUST NEED IT. 
          IT GOES UP, IT GOES DOWN, IT STAYS NEUTRAL. 
          GOTCHA. 
          I DON'T NEED GOTCHA. 
          YOU KNOW, AND I NEED IT DOWN TO LIKE ROUNDED TO THE 5 CENTS . 
          YES. 
          ANY OTHER COMMENTS? WHAT TYPE OF DIRECTION ARE YOU LOOKING FOR, STEVE? SO, UH, THE DIRECTION, UH, IT WAS IN A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT AREAS. 
          UM, ONE, UH, ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH ME MOVING FORWARD ON THE ADOPTION OF THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE? UH, TWO, ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH NOT ADOPTING THE ENERGY CODE, THE 2024 ENERGY CODE AND STICKING WITH THE EIGHTEENS? UM, THREE, UH, DO YOU WANT ME TO LOOK FURTHER INTO APPLYING THE, UH, SECTION 5 0 4, THE HOME HARDENING REQUIREMENTS OF THE WWE CODE, UH, TO OUR BUILDING CODES? AND FOUR, ARE THERE, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU HEARD TONIGHT THAT YOU SAY ABSOLUTELY NOT. 
          WE DON'T WANT THAT IN OUR AMENDMENTS OR, UM, YOU KNOW, SO ANYTHING YOU WANT ME TO CHANGE, UH, IN WHAT WAS PRESENTED? OKAY. 
          FOR YOUR THREE QUESTIONS. 
          ONE, I DON'T KNOW, TWO I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM, UM, BRYCE, I THINK REGARDING, I'D ASKED BEFORE IF YOU WERE ON BOARD AND YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU NODDED, BUT I'D LIKE TO HEAR WHY, BECAUSE WE DO THINK THAT THERE'S SOME REDUCTION OF MOVEMENT TOWARD OUR GOALS. 
          SO I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM THAT. 
          AND THREE, I STILL NEED TO, YOU KNOW, REGARDING THE HEARTENING REQUIREMENTS, I STILL NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT BETTER. 
          OKAY. 
          VERY GOOD. 
          WHERE'S THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE IN OUR PACKET? IT IS A CODE BOOK, SO IT WOULD NOT BE WITHIN YOUR PACKET. 
          SEE THOSE SIX VOLUMES? HE'S GOT , ONE OF THOSE IS THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE. 
          THAT'S ALL NEW TO COME PULL OUT THE SKINNY ONE. 
          COME ON, . 
          BUT DO WE HAVE A SUMMARY OF THOSE? I'M JUST LOOKING FOR THE, OH, LOOK, IT'S LITTLE. 
          IT'S, NO, I CAN PROVIDE YOU WITH, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF I HAVE SEVEN COPIES OF THIS, BUT, UM, YOU DO HAVE MULTIPLE COPIES IF YOU'D LIKE TO READ THROUGH THAT. 
          IN FACT, I CAN PASS THIS DOWN. 
          I'D LIKE, IS THERE A WAY TO SUMMARIZE THAT IN TERMS OF THE SIGNIFICANT ELEMENTS OR THE, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S ON MY MIND, STEVE, IS THE CONVERSATION THAT YOU AND I HAD ABOUT MY FENCE THAT REPAIRED. 
          AND MY GUESS IS I HAD A PANEL FALL DOWN BECAUSE THE DRY ROT AND THE SCREWS KIND OF PULLED OUT AND THE PANEL FELL DOWN. 
          OTHERS WERE GETTING READY TO, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD'VE BEEN IN THERE AS SOMETHING THAT WAS BEEN ADDRESSABLE TO FIX, BUT YOU'LL RECALL THAT THE PROCESS OF FIXING IT WASN'T EXACTLY EASY. 
          AND SO I'M THINKING ABOUT BUILDING REPAIR AND HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT THE PROCESS THAT WE PUT PEOPLE THROUGH TO DO REPAIR IS KIND OF, IS STREAMLINED AND AS EASY, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE NOT CHANGING ANYTHING. 
          IF THEY'RE JUST RESTORING IT, THAT OUGHT TO BE SOMETHING REALLY EASY. 
          AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO THINK ABOUT WHETHER THAT DOES THAT OR NOT. 
          YES. 
          SO THIS WON'T CHANGE, THAT PROCEDURE WILL CHANGE THAT. 
          UM, SO ALL THIS DOES IS INSTEAD OF CODE 
          [02:10:01]
ENFORCEMENT GOING OUT AND SAY YOUR FENCE IS FALLING APART, THAT'S UNSIGHTLY. 
          THIS JUST SAYS YOUR FENCE IS IS IN A STATE OF DISREPAIR AND YOU NEED TO FIX THAT. 
          SO IN BOTH CASES, UM, THE ACTION IS THE SAME. 
          THIS JUST IS MORE SPECIFIC TO THE REASON. 
          OKAY. 
          SO, SO HAVE WE DONE ANY WORK? I, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT A LOT OF OUR BUILDING CODE WAS PUT IN OVER TIME FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF NEW STUFF. 
          NOW THAT WE'RE GETTING A LITTLE BIT OLDER IN YEARS FOR OUR COMMUNITY, THERE'S A WHOLE CONSIDERATION OF MAINTENANCE AND HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT THE PROCESS IS EASY, WE DON'T NEED THEM TO POINT THEM TO NEW CONSTRUCTION STANDARDS IN OUR CODE, THAT THERE'S SOMETHING EASIER FOR US TO DO, AND ARE WE GOING TO DO THAT? WE'VE ALREADY DONE IT AND I'M UNAWARE, OR YES. 
          HOW DO WE START THINKING ABOUT OUR COMMUNITY IN A DIFFERENT WAY THAN IT'S JUST NEW CONSTRUCTION? SURE. 
          SURE. 
          SO I WANT TO ASK YOUR QUESTION FIRST. 
          I JUST WANT TO REITERATE THAT THIS IS NOT GONNA BE A CODE THAT WE WILL GO OUT AND USE, UH, UH, IN A, UH, IN, WHAT AM I TRYING TO SAY? UM, THE OPPOSITE REA PUNITIVE WAY. 
          WHAT? I'M SORRY. 
          PUNITIVE WAY. 
          YEAH. 
          WELL, IT, IT'S ONLY IN REACTIONARY. 
          ONLY WHEN THERE IS A COMPLAINT, ONLY WHEN THERE'S A COMPLAINT THAT IS VALID, UM, WILL, WE WENT THEN USE THIS CODE. 
          AND AGAIN, THIS CODE ALLOWS US TO APPLY MORE SPECIFIC REASONING BEHIND THE ACTION. 
          TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, UM, INTERNALLY, UH, WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS THERE ENOUGH STRUCTURE LEFT TO JUST NAIL THOSE BOARDS TOGETHER, OR DOES THE REPAIR HAVE TO INCLUDE NEW FOOTINGS? UM, IF THAT'S THE CASE, NOW WE'RE IN THE LINE OF NEW CONSTRUCTION AGAIN AS OPPOSED TO A REPAIR. 
          SO I THINK WE NEED TO BETTER IDENTIFY AND EDUCATE ON THAT, THAT LINE. 
          WHAT'S A REPAIR AND WHAT IS A REPAIR THAT'S SO FAR GONE THAT IT IS NOW NEW CONSTRUCTION? I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HELPS. 
          IT DOES PHILOSOPHICALLY. 
          I'M WITH YOU. 
          BUT YOU KNOW, WHEN IT'S, AGAIN, USING MY SPECIFIC CASE, I'M GONNA REPLACE ALL THE WOOD. 
          THE POSTS WERE IN CONCRETE AND THEY WERE METAL AND THEY WERE GOOD. 
          MM-HMM . 
          BUT MY INITIAL APPROACH TO THE DEPARTMENT, I WAS HANDED THE NEW PEN FENCE PACKET THAT WAS REALLY BIG AND WANTED ME TO DIS DISCLOSE WHAT THE FOOTER SIZE WAS AND ALL THE MATERIALS AND ALL THE DIMENSIONS. 
          AND IT WAS LIKE, RIGHT, I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING NEW. 
          I'M JUST REPLACING MM-HMM . 
          SUN DAMAGED WOOD. 
          YES. 
          THAT'S A PROCEDURAL ISSUE THAT I NEED TO ADDRESS. 
          YES. 
          THAT, YEAH. 
          AND IT'S NOT JUST FENCE, IT COULD BE A DOOR, IT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OTHER THINGS I COULD CONCEIVE OF. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT WOULD FALL IN THAT SAME CATEGORY THAT OH YEAH, NO, NO, NO. 
          UH, ABSOLUTELY. 
          WE, UM, UH, DEFINITELY CAN BE ACCUSED OF HAVING BLINDERS ON. 
          SOMETIMES SOMEONE SAYS, I NEED TO REPAIR MY FENCE. 
          HERE'S A FENCE FOR, EXCUSE ME, STEVE. 
          UH, I THINK WE'RE GETTING A LITTLE BIT OFF TOPIC HERE. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          SO, SO THE, UM, INTERNATIONAL PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE WOULD ONLY KICK IN AFTER A C OF O IS ISSUED? CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          PRIOR TO THAT IT WOULD BE OUR, OUR BUILDING CODES. 
          OKAY. 
          SO, OKAY. 
          WELL, ALL RIGHT. 
          LEMME LEAVE IT. 
          RIGHT. 
          WE'RE TRYING TO SPEAK FROM, I'M SORRY. 
          THAT'S OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          SO TO YOUR THREE QUESTIONS ON PAGE 14 OF THE POWERPOINT, THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE, I'M INTERESTED IN KNOWING WHAT ARE THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES? WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF PICKING AROUND THE EDGES OF THAT, BUT WHAT WOULD, WHAT ARE THE POTENTIAL UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF ADOPTING THAT IN GENERAL? I WANNA SAY YES ON THE SECOND ONE. 
          PROBABLY LEANING TOWARDS, YES. 
          THE THIRD ONE REALLY LEANING TOWARDS, NO. 
          UM, I, I DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE TRYING, I MEAN THAT TO SAY YES TO NUMBER THREE IS ABSOLUTELY ADDING ON SUBSTANTIAL COST. 
          AND WE, AND WE'RE SAYING WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT. 
          SO I, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE CAN, UH, FORCE THAT ON 
          [02:15:01]
FOLKS. 
          UM, FOR THAT, FOR THE WOOEY. 
          I, I, I JUST, I, UNLESS SOMEBODY'S GOT A COMPELLING ARGUMENT TO THE CONTRARY, I JUST DON'T SEE IT, YOU KNOW, ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT COUNSELOR KINSELLA SAID ABOUT WHAT SHE'S HOPING TO SEE THE NEXT TIME AROUND. 
          I WOULD CONCUR THAT, UM, ANYTHING THAT CAN SHOW, UH, COST IMPACT OF CHANGES THAT ARE, UH, CONTEMPLATED HERE, I THINK WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, HELPFUL. 
          ALSO, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE WHOLE IDEA OF THIS BALANCED HOUSING STRATEGY AND ONE OF THE, UH, DOWNSTREAM BYPRODUCTS IS, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE MAKE IT MORE AFFORDABLE TO BUILD HERE? I DON'T HEAR THAT COMING THROUGH IN THE DISCUSSION TODAY THAT, AND MAYBE THAT'S NOT FAIR CRITIQUE, BUT I JUST DON'T HEAR THAT BEING PART OF THE FOCUS, AT LEAST AT THE MOMENT. 
          WHAT I THINK WOULD BE REALLY INTERESTING IN JULY WOULD BE, UM, PART OF THE PRESENTATION SAYING THIS IS WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO TAKE 10% OF THE COST OUT OF BUILDING SOMETHING HERE. 
          THIS IS WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO, TO TAKE 20% OUT. 
          AND WHAT THAT MIGHT TAKE MIGHT BE COMPLETELY UNPALATABLE, BUT LET'S AT LEAST HAVE THAT CONVERSATION. 
          LET'S KNOW WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. 
          AND, UM, AND, AND I MEAN, IT CAN'T JUST BE, DON'T TAKE THIS WRONG. 
          I MEAN, IT CAN'T JUST BE, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE REALLY EASY TO, TO SAY, TO, TO COME UP WITH SOME THINGS THAT YOU'D HAVE TO DO WHERE IT'S LIKE, OKAY, WELL WE WOULD NEVER DO THAT. 
          RIGHT. 
          LIKE, NOT HAVE HVAC. 
          RIGHT? LIKE, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THAT. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO IT'S, IT'S GOTTA HAVE SOME THOUGHTFULNESS BEHIND IT. 
          AND I'M ONLY ONE PERSON ASKING, SO I DON'T KNOW IF MY COLLEAGUES WOULD BE INTERESTED TO SEE SOMETHING LIKE THAT AS WELL. 
          BUT I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE VALUABLE GIVEN THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW TO REDUCE THE COST OF CONSTRUCTION AND THAT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE IT'S PART OF THE CONVERSATION SO FAR. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AND I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE IF THERE ARE ANY, UH, PROPOSALS FROM YOUR FOCUS GROUP THAT WERE NOT INCORPORATED THAT YOU REJECTED AND THE REASONS WHY THERE WERE NONE. 
          YEAH, THERE WERE NONE. 
          THERE WERE NOT. 
          HE SAID THERE WERE NONE. 
          RIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          CORRECT. 
          AND JUST TO REITERATE, WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE SOME TESTIMONY FROM THE INDUSTRY. 
          ABSOLUTELY. 
          I GOT THAT AT THE TOP THERE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANKS. 
          THANK YOU, MELISSA. 
          SO FIRST I, I JUST WANNA PUSH BACK A LITTLE BIT AT WHAT THE VICE MAYOR JUST SAID. 
          UM, PART OF THE COST OF BUILDING IN SEDONA IS GETTING MATERIALS HERE AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, THE QUALITY OF THE MATERIALS THAT YOU WANNA BUILD WITH, THE ONLY THING THAT THE CODES WILL DO WILL DETERMINE THE QUALITY OF THE MATERIALS AND HOW MUCH OF A MATERIAL YOU NEED. 
          THE WAY I'M UNDERSTANDING IT, SO YOU KNOW, AT SOME POINT YOU DO CROSS THAT, THAT LINE WHERE THE COST OF GETTING MATERIALS HERE IS GOING TO, THE ONLY WAY TO SAVE MONEY IS TO DRIVE DOWN THE, THE QUALITY OF THE MATERIALS. 
          I ALSO WANNA POINT OUT THAT ONE OF THE BIG COSTS HERE IS OUR DIFF FEES AND THE DIFF FEES WILL NOT BE CHANGED AGAIN UNTIL 2030 BECAUSE WE HAVE, WE HAVE TO DO THAT EVERY FIVE YEARS. 
          AND I DON'T THINK WE'RE ALLOWED TO DO THAT BEFORE THE FIVE YEARS. 
          I'M LOOKING OVER HERE TO SEE IF ANYONE REMEMBERS WHAT FINANCE SAID. 
          I THINK YOU RAISE, I'M GONNA HAVE TO GET BACK TO YOU. 
          I THINK YOU CAN REDUCE THEM, BUT I'M NOT SURE. 
          SO THAT MIGHT BE THE CONVERSATION THAT WE NEED TO HAVE AND WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CODES, HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE FEES AND WHETHER OR NOT WE FEEL THOSE FEES NEED TO BE ADJUSTED. 
          SO I JUST SORT OF WANTED TO KIND OF THROW THAT OUT AND CAN I ANSWER THE THREE QUESTIONS BEFORE YOU RESPOND? ALRIGHT. 
          UM, I AGREE. 
          UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES IF WE CAN FIGURE THEM OUT, IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND. 
          'CAUSE WE ARE BASICALLY GOING TO BE ASKING PEOPLE TO MAKE REPAIRS THEY MAY OR MAY NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD. 
          UM, AND SO IF THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO AFFORD THEM AND WE DON'T HAVE A HABITAT FOR HUMANITY GRANT PROGRAM GOING ON, WHAT ARE WE DOING? OR HOW CAN WE HELP, AS, YOU KNOW, AS A CITY. 
          SO THAT TO ME IS THE UNIN. 
          ONE OF THE MAJOR UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES IS AFFORDABILITY. 
          UM, UH, I'M SORRY, I SAW BRYCE NODDING HIS HEAD THAT HE'S REVIEWED THE ENERGY CODES WITH YOU. 
          SO UNLESS, YOU KNOW, I FOR, FOR BRYCE TO COME UP AND SAY, HEY, YEAH, I REALLY DID AGREE. 
          UM, IT, IT'LL MAKE SOME MEMBERS OF COUNCIL REALLY HAPPY. 
          SO I'M OKAY WITH THAT. 
          IT'LL TAKE, YOU KNOW, HOWEVER LONG IT TAKES FOR BRYCE 
          [02:20:01]
TO EXPLAIN WHAT'S GOING ON IN HIS HEAD ABOUT THIS STUFF. 
          AS FAR AS THE WILDLAND URBAN INTERFACE, I THINK THIS IS REALLY TRICKY, UM, BECAUSE THERE'S A PART OF YOU THAT SAYS, IF YOU'RE SITTING ON LIKE, CAN WE ADOPT THEM BUT NOT REQUIRE THEM? LIKE IF YOU, IF YOU'RE A BUILDER COMES TO YOU AND SAYS, THERE ARE THINGS I COULD DO THAT'S GONNA UP THE COST BY A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE. 
          UM, BUT YOU'RE LIKE, RIGHT, YOU'RE RIGHT. 
          SITTING ON A SOCIAL TRAIL, RIGHT? AND YOU'RE GONNA BE, YOU'RE GONNA BE RIGHT WITHIN THIS, THIS URBAN INTERFACE. 
          THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING I THINK THAT WOULD BE INTERESTING ALSO, BECAUSE THE INSURANCE COMPANIES MAY WANNA KNOW ON NEW CONSTRUCTION WHETHER OR NOT YOU APPLIED THIS AND IF YOU DIDN'T APPLY THIS, COULD THAT THEN IMPACT YOUR INSURANCE OR THE ABILITY TO EVEN GET INSURANCE. 
          SO I THINK THAT TO ME IS WHY IT'S KIND OF A TRICKY THING TO THINK ABOUT. 
          UM, OKAY, SO NOW, UH, VICE MAYOR CAN PUSH BACK, SO TWO PUSHBACKS, YOU KNOW, THE FIRST IS I, I DON'T ASSUME THAT THERE'S 10% OR 20% OF COST TO TAKE OUT. 
          I'D WANT TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION SO THAT THE COMMUNITY CAN SEE THAT THERE'S BEEN SOME RIGOROUS THOUGHT BEHIND WHAT WOULD IT TAKE AND WHAT IT MIGHT TAKE TO GET EVEN 10% COST OUT IS COMPLETELY UNPALATABLE. 
          AND IF IT TURNS OUT THAT IT WOULD COME MOSTLY THROUGH DIFF FEES, THEN OKAY, THAT'S A GREAT PART OF THE DISCUSSION. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, ON THE, THE WOOEY STUFF, I MEAN, THIS IS A PROPERTY RIGHTS STATE, YOU KNOW, IF, IF IT'S NOT REQUIRED 'CAUSE YOU'RE IN THE WOOEY THEN TO OTHERWISE REQUIRE IT. 
          I DON'T, I I DON'T SUPPORT THAT. 
          THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID, BUT, SO MAKING IT AVAILABLE, SURE. 
          BUT I MEAN, YOU COULD DO THAT TODAY. 
          I DON'T THINK THE CODE HAS TO BE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS ASKING DO YOU WANT TO ADD THAT TO THE CODE? RIGHT. 
          AND I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO ADD THAT, BUT ANYBODY THAT IS CLOSE TO THE EE AND IS CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. 
          WELL THEN THEY CAN DO THAT. 
          THEY CAN HAVE THAT CONVERSATION WITH THEIR BUILDER. 
          SO THAT'S MY 2 CENTS. 
          WELL I THINK IT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE PROVIDED THEM WITH INFORMATION IF THEY CHOSE TO DO THAT. 
          BUT I WOULDN'T REQUIRE IT EITHER. 
          EITHER. 
          AND I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT DIFF FEES 'CAUSE I VOTED AGAINST THEM AND I WOULD VOTE AGAINST THEM AGAIN. 
          I WOULD VOTE FOR LOWERING THEM. 
          I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH, BUT THEY WERE TOO HIGH TO BEGIN WITH AND THEN WE MADE THEM HIGHER. 
          SO LOOK, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT OURSELVES TOO. 
          AND, AND WHILE I, I DO BUY INTO SOMEWHAT THE FACT THAT OUR BUILDING MATERIALS ARE MORE EXPENSIVE. 
          THEY, BECAUSE OF WHERE WE LIVE, I DON'T BUY THAT. 
          THAT ISN'T THE SAME FOR COTTONWOOD OR CAMP VERDE. 
          I MEAN, WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER. 
          SO THEY STILL MANAGE TO BUILD HOUSES THAT ARE WAY MORE AFFORDABLE THAN WE DO. 
          AND SO THEY HAVE ALLOWANCES THAT PERMIT THAT TO HAPPEN. 
          AND I JUST LOOKED UP CAMP VERDE AND SEDONA AND I DIDN'T LOOK UP, THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE, IN MY QUICK LOOKUP, THE COST PER SQUARE FOOT. 
          BUT THE AVERAGE HOUSE IN 2026 IN CAMP VERDE IS 460 $430,420. 
          SO THEY FOUND A WAY TO BUILD MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSES THERE. 
          AND I, AND I RECALL WHEN WE HAD THE DIFF CONVERSATION, THEY REALLY DIDN'T EVEN HAVE DIFF FEES. 
          NOT ALL THESE COMMUNITIES DO. 
          SOME OF THEM WERE IN THE PROCESS OF LOOKING AT IT OR ADOPTING IT. 
          SO IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE AN UPDATE TO THAT. 
          MM-HMM . 
          UM, CAN I ASK A CLARIFYING QUESTION? 'CAUSE THAT WASN'T IZED FOR TODAY TO TALK ABOUT DIFF FEES. 
          WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CODE AMENDMENTS. 
          SO, UM, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT IF YOU WANT THAT ON THE AGENDA, YOU GUYS CAN BRING THAT UP AND WE CAN IN OUR NEXT MEETING. 
          YEAH, BUT I'M HEARING THE, I'M HEARING THE INTEREST. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, I THINK YOUR POINT IS WELL TAKEN. 
          LOOKING AT THE CAMP VERDE NUMBERS, UM, I'M JUST WONDERING IF IN THERE, WHAT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE IS DIFFERENCE AS WELL, WHICH CONTRIBUTES TO THAT PRICE DIFFERENTIAL. 
          BECAUSE I HAVE A FEELING THAT THE, I DON'T KNOW THIS, I'M JUST TAKING A STAB AT GUESSING THAT THE HOUSES THAT ARE BEING BUILT HERE IN SEDONA AS NEW CONSTRUCTION ARE LARGER THAN THE HOUSES THAT ARE BEING BUILT IN CAMP VERDE. 
          SO THAT, THAT MIGHT BE A CONTRIBUTOR TO THE PRICE. 
          IF I COULD INTERRUPT JUST FOR A SECOND. 
          I ACTUALLY LOOKED THAT UP AND IT SAYS THAT, UM, THE AVERAGE SIZE OF A HOME IN CAMP VERDE IS APPROXIMATELY 1,766 
          [02:25:01]
SQUARE FEET. 
          RIGHT? SO DOUBLE IT FOR HERE. 
          RIGHT? WHICH BRINGS YOU TO 800 AND SOMETHING. 
          SO IF I COULD INTERJECT THERE, I ACTUALLY DID THE NUMBERS ON THOSE 20 HOMES THAT I PULLED UP. 
          AND THE AVERAGE HOUSE SIZE ON THAT, THOSE 20 HOMES WAS 3,783 SQUARE FEET. 
          IN SEDONA. 
          IN SEDONA. 
          WHAT WAS THAT NUMBER AGAIN? 3,783 SQUARE FOOT WAS THE AVERAGE SIZE OF THE LAST, THAT NUMBER  THE LAST 20 HOMES. 
          YOU KNOW, THE POINT IS THAT THEY ALLOW TO BUILD HOUSES OF THOSE SIZES TO ATTRACT PEOPLE AS STARTER HOMES OR, YOU KNOW, SMALLER HOMES AND ENCOURAGE THAT. 
          AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE INCENTIVES FOR THAT, YOU KNOW, OR WAYS IN WHICH TO ENCOURAGE IT. 
          THE UH, I HAVE A FRIEND WHO JUST SOLD THEIR HOUSE IN THE VILLAGE, 1200 SQUARE FEET, A MILLION DOLLARS. 
          SO SIZE IS SOMETHING AND LOCATION IS SOMETHING APPARENTLY. 
          AND THEY RAISED FIVE, THEY RAISED A FAMILY OF FIVE IN A 1200 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE, PETE. 
          SO TO GET TO THE STAFF QUESTIONS, I, I LARGELY AGREE. 
          I'M COMFORTABLE WITH ONE AS IT STANDS, ALTHOUGH I THINK WE REALLY HAVEN'T REALLY UNDERSTOOD WHAT'S IN THERE. 
          SO SOME MORE WORK NEEDS TO BE DONE BEFORE WE FINALLY APPROVE IT. 
          TWO, I THINK THAT I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THAT BECAUSE I HAVE A SENSE THAT BRYCE IS GONNA BE COMING BACK TO US. 
          WE'VE JUST INTENTIONALLY NOT TALKED ABOUT HERE. 
          BRYCE WILL BE COMING BACK TO US AND SAY, YEAH, IT'S ALL GOOD. 
          MAYBE EXCEPT FOR THESE THINGS WE WANNA RECONSIDER OR NOT. 
          AND, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE COMING SESSION'S GONNA THREE, THREE ON THE WOOEY. 
          I DON'T KNOW YET. 
          I I DON'T HAVE A VISUAL MAP IN MY MIND OF HOW MUCH OF OUR TOWN IS IN THE WOOEY. 
          UH, I JUST DON'T KNOW. 
          UH, I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT. 
          I'M NOT SURE THAT THERE'S A LOT OF EMPTY LOTS WITHIN THE WOOEY ZONE THAT WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT. 
          UH, HOW MUCH ARE WE REALLY IMPACTING HERE? I THINK THAT HOMES THAT ARE CLOSER TO THE WOOEY ARE ON THE BORDER OF THE FOREST SERVICE IS NOT WHERE WE'RE GONNA BE BUILDING ATTAINABLE HOUSING IN THE FUTURE. 
          SO WE DON'T NEED, YOU KNOW, I I'M LESS WORRIED ABOUT THE 3000 SQUARE FOOT HOME ON THE FOREST SERVICE BORDER ABOUT WHAT BURDENS THAT WE PUTTING ON HERE BECAUSE THERE IS A SAFETY REQUIREMENT TO THE REST OF TOWN. 
          SO I'M NOT QUITE THERE REJECTING WILD, THE, THE WWE CODES FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION IN OUR TOWN UNTIL I UNDERSTAND MORE THE REALISTIC IMPACT OF HOW MUCH WE'RE WE'RE DOING THERE. 
          CAN I BORROW YOUR SCREEN? SURE. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, BOTH FOR THE PROPERTY MA UH, MAINTENANCE CODE AND FOR THE WOO WE CODE, I JUST DIDN'T GET ENOUGH DETAIL OR SO IN SOME CASE, ANY DETAIL TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT'S IN IT. 
          SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME SORT OF, UM, CHART OR SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, AND IT MAY BE GOING FROM NOTHING 'CAUSE WE DON'T HAVE IT ADOPTED NOW, BUT JUST WHAT THE BASIC, YOU KNOW, MAIN POINTS ARE. 
          UM, I ALSO THINK THAT WWE CODE COULD BE AN INTERESTING, UH, ADDITIONAL THING TO BRING, BRING UP IN THE FIREWISE COMMUNITY CONVERSATION. 
          THAT'S A GOOD BOY JUST TO KIND OF GAUGE, EDUCATE PEOPLE TO IT, GAUGE INTEREST IN IT SO FORTH. 
          I DON'T KNOW IF THE TIMING WORKS, BUT ANYWAY. 
          UM, AND THE ENERGY CONSERVATION CODE, I WOULD BE SHOCKED AND AMAZED BECAUSE I WOULD THINK THAT THE CITY WOULD SPEAK WITH ONE VOICE. 
          IF ONE DEPARTMENT IS GOING TO CONTRADICT ANOTHER DEPARTMENT. 
          BY THE TIME IT GETS TO THIS POINT, I WOULD HOPE THAT THERE'S BEEN A RESOLUTION OF ANY, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENCES OF OPINION. 
          CORRECT. 
          UM, YEAH, THAT'S TRUE. 
          THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. 
          YEAH. 
          AND YOU'LL BE HEARING ABOUT THE SUSTAINABILITY CODE AMENDMENTS JUNE 10TH. 
          CAN I ADD ONE THING ABOUT NUMBER ONE ON THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE WHEN YOU COME BACK WITH THE OTHER STUFF? I'D LIKE SOME ANECDOTES PROTECTING PEOPLE'S PRIVACY AND ADDRESSES AND EVERYTHING OF COURSE. 
          BUT I'D LIKE SOME ANECDOTES OF NOT HAVING THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE WHERE IF WE HAD HAD IT, IT WOULD'VE MADE A DIFFERENCE IN THIS TYPE OF A SITUATION. 
          THAT TYPE. 
          JUST A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT AREAS BECAUSE I THINK WE HAVE HAD ISSUES WHERE, UM, NEIGHBORS HAVE BEEN FRUSTRATED BY A LACK OF A MAINTENANCE CODE THAT COULD BE APPLIED TO SOMETHING THAT WAS THEN AFFECTING THEIR PROPERTY, GETTING A LONG LIST. 
           
          [02:30:03]
WELLS DO YOU NEED FROM US? UH, THE LAST PART WAS, WAS THERE ANYTHING WITHIN THE, EXCUSE ME, THE AMENDMENTS, THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS THAT WE REVIEWED TONIGHT THAT YOU WOULD THINK NO WAY OR NO, WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT AGAIN TO CONTEXTUALIZE THEM. 
          I'D LIKE THAT EXTRA INFORMATION OF IS THIS GOING TO INCREASE, UH, BY ONE TO 2%, YOU KNOW, CONSTRUCTION COSTS, IS THIS GOING TO DECREASE POTENTIALLY BY 10 TO 15%? YEAH. 
          I LIKE, I'D LIKE, JUST LIKE I SAID TO, TO KNOW THAT SO THAT WE CAN CONTEXTUALIZE THE INFORMATION. 
          ABSOLUTELY. 
          BEFORE, BEFORE WEIGHING IN ON THIS ONE'S A YES. 
          THAT ONE'S A NO. 
          YEAH. 
          I MEAN WE'RE NOT IN THAT IN, WELL WE'RE, HE'S SORT OF, BUT REST OF US ARE NOT IN THAT INDUSTRY AND WE HAVE TO RELY ON OTHER PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, WEIGHING IN TO TELL US SOME OF THESE THINGS. 
          AND THAT'S WHY I REALLY WANT INDUSTRY TO BE HERE. 
          MM-HMM . 
          MM-HMM . 
          'CAUSE THEY MAY COME UP WITH SOMETHING ELSE THAT WE COULD CHANGE AS WELL. 
          NOT BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S MAYBE AN AMENDMENT THAT WE ALREADY HAVE THAT IS CAUSING AN ISSUE. 
          AND, AND SOME OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE HEARD YOU TALK ABOUT TONIGHT WERE INTERESTING TO ME WHEN I DID MY REMODEL ABOUT WHERE TO PUT ELECTRICAL OUTLETS ON THE ISLAND AND WHAT WE HAD AND WHAT WE COULDN'T, WE COULD NO LONGER DO. 
          AND NOW IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S CHANGING AS WELL. 
          AND YOU KNOW, LOTS OF THOSE THINGS DID INCREASE THE COST. 
          MM-HMM . 
          IF I MIGHT INTERJECT, THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE FOCUS GROUP ASKED FOR WAS TO KEEP THAT IN THE CODE THAT THE ALLOWANCE TO EITHER PUT IT IN OR NOT PUT IT IN. 
          UM, AND BY THE WAY, IF YOU DON'T PUT IT IN, YOU STILL HAVE TO RUN THE CONDUIT TO THEIR, UH, WITHIN, SO FOR THE FUTURE USE OF, YOU KNOW, IF SOMEONE WANTED TO PUT THAT IN LATER. 
          UM, BUT THEY ALSO ASKED TO KEEP THE ALLOWANCE IN THE 18 CODES TO BE ALLOWED TO PUT RECEPTACLES IN THE COUNTER AND NOT HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE COUNTERTOP, WHICH OFTENTIMES IS EXTREMELY PRICEY, BRITTLE, FRAGILE. 
          UM, SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE AGREED TO, UH, TO HELP THAT PROCESS. 
          YEAH. 
          AND I HAVE TO SAY THAT I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY ELSE HAD THIS EXPERIENCE, BUT MY CONTRACTOR WHO'S LOCAL HERE, WHEN I WOULD ASK HIM A QUESTION OR HE WOULD SAY, WELL, IT'S NOT REALLY CLEAR WHETHER WE HAVE TO DO THIS OR NOT. 
          AND I WOULD SAY, DO IT BECAUSE THE AIR ON THE SIDE, BUT MAYBE DI DIDN'T HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, AND THOSE ALL ADDED UP. 
          YEAH. 
          SO IN, IN THAT SITUATION, I WOULD SAY ONE OF TWO THINGS. 
          WHATEVER YOUR APPROVED PLANS SHOW, THOSE ARE THE CODE REQUIREMENTS. 
          IF THERE'S SOMETHING BEYOND THAT, GIMME A CALL. 
          YEAH, CALL ME. 
          IT'S LONG, IT'S PASSED . 
          IT'S IN THE PAST. 
          THANK YOU. 
          RIGHT. 
          DECISIONS WERE MADE. 
          OKAY. 
          ANY, ANYTHING ELSE? OKAY, 
          [3.b. Discussion/possible action regarding ideas for future meetings/agenda items.]
LET'S MOVE TO ITEM THREE B, DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING IDEAS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS, AGENDA ITEMS, ANYTHING ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT, IMPACT, FEES, AND SORT OF IN WHAT TIMEFRAME? I MEAN, WE JUST ADOPTED THE BUDGET AND EVERY, OR YOU'RE ON THE VERGE OF FINISHING THE BUDGET PROCESS. 
          I MEAN, WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU'RE, WELL IN THE JULY AS PART OF THE JULY PRESENTATION OR YOU WANT IT SEPARATE, BUT EITHER THAT OR WHEN THE, UH, THE NEXT ROUND OF THE BALANCED HOUSING STRATEGY COMES BACK FROM THE CONSULTANTS. 
          RIGHT. 
          'CAUSE THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE IMPLEMENTATION ORIENTED. 
          AND THAT WOULD ALSO BE A GOOD TIME TO TALK ABOUT WHAT IMPACTS THE ABILITY TO EXECUTE ON THAT STRATEGY. 
          YEAH, BECAUSE, UM, DIFF ALLEVIATION IS IN THE DUGA ALREADY. 
          SO IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT EXPANDING THAT TO NON, UM, TO HOUSING PROJECTS THAT AREN'T FALLING UNDER THE DIG, I'D LIKE JUST BROADLY TO EVERYBODY THAT YEAH. 
          BUT WE CAN COORDINATE SOME DISCUSSION ON THE BUILDING COSTS INTO THAT. 
          OKAY. 
          ANYTHING ELSE? OKAY. 
          [5. ADJOURNMENT]
HEARING NOTHING. 
          MEETING IS ADJOURNED.
* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.