* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.
          [00:00:02]
          . 
          SO 
          [* This meeting has been joined in progress *]
          [4. Update and discussion on previous review of other studies and examples of compensation forms.]
ON MY SCREEN HERE, I'M SORRY THAT ALL PRESENT CAN'T SEE, BUT WE HAVE A BAND OF, OF POPULATION CITIES, OF A CERTAIN POPULATION THAT ARE EITHER 50% GREATER IN POPULATION THAN SEDONA, OR 50% LESS THAN POPUL, THAN SEDONA, RIGHT? AND WE, UH, CAME UP WITH THOSE CITIES HERE, AND WE HAVE AN AVERAGE FOR THOSE CITIES THAT WE'RE GONNA CALL KIND OF CLOSE TO THE SEDONA POPULATION, WE HAD AN AVERAGE, UM, AIR SALARY OF NINETY SEVEN HUNDRED AND SIXTY TWO HUNDRED FOR COUNCIL AVERAGE. 
          SO VERY CLOSE TO THE RENT. 
          AGAIN, WE'RE HITTING THAT AVERAGE. 
          UM, SAME WITH THE MEDIAN. 
          AND, UH, WE'RE KIND OF RIGHT IN THE POCKET THERE. 
          BUT AS I CAME DOWN, I, I REALIZED THAT WE HAVE THIS SALARY PER CAPITA. 
          SO THIS IS A NEW CONCEPT THAT WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT YET, BUT IT IS, IT PRODUCED A VERY INTRIGUING CHART THAT I'LL SHOW YOU HERE IN A SECOND. 
          UM, AND THE IDEA IS THAT, UH, YOU'RE GETTING SOME COMPENSATION FOR EVERY, UM, CONSTITUENT IN THE CITY. 
          SO EVERY RESIDENT, RIGHT? SO IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO HOW FUNDING HAPPENS FOR SCHOOLS, RIGHT? THEY GET A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY PER PUPIL, RIGHT? SO COUNCIL MEMBERS WILL GET A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY PER PUPIL. 
          AND, UH, WE RANKED, I RANKED THOSE, AND SEDONA RANKS 31ST, UH, OUT OF 91 CITIES FOR THAT. 
          AND WHERE WE'RE SPENDING JUST ABOUT A DOLLAR FOR, FOR THAT. 
          NOW, THAT COMPARES FOR ALL OF THE COUNCIL OR FOR COUNSELOR. 
          UM, THAT IS, UH, JUST, UH, THAT'S JUST THE MAYOR. 
          UH, SO I SHOULD HAVE FOLLOWED THAT. 
          UM, LET'S SEE HERE. 
          SO THAT'S, YEP. 
          C POLICIES. 
          THAT'S JUST MAYOR. 
          YEAH. 
          SO I CAN DO A RANKING FOR THE COUNCIL MEMBERS AS WELL. 
          UM, THAT THROUGH OUT SOME VERY INTERESTING DATA. 
          UM, SHARON, FOR EXAMPLE, HAS ONLY 452 PEOPLE, UM, BUT THEY GET $12,000 FROM THE MAYOR, AND THAT COMES OUT TO $26 A PERSON COMPARED TO SIT $1 PERSON, . 
          UM, FORSIGHT, UH, HAS 2300 PEOPLE, AND THE MAYOR GETS $14,000 A YEAR, AND THAT COMES OUT TO ABOUT $5 AND 86 CENTS PER PERSON. 
          SO THAT'S, THAT'S INTERESTING. 
          UM, AND, AND IT GETS EVEN MORE INTERESTING WHEN YOU CHART IT. 
          SO THIS TABLE THAT I DID, UM, HAS A VERY INTERESTING FEATURE, UM, IN THAT THE MORE POPULATION YOU HAVE, UH, THE LESS THE DOLLAR AMOUNT IS PER PERSON. 
          AND THAT KIND OF MAKES SENSE. 
          THERE'S SOME SORT OF SCALE AT WHICH, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE JUST GONNA BE EXPECTED TO COVER MORE CONSTITUENTS, BUT THERE'S AN OUTLIER OF PHOENIX, FOR EXAMPLE. 
          UH, PHOENIX PAYS 6 CENTS FOR EVERY RESIDENT INSTEAD OF A DOLLAR COMPARED TO SEDONA . 
          AND THEY HAVE A LOT OF RESIDENTS, RIGHT? THEY HAVE 1.6 MILLION PEOPLE, RIGHT? SO THAT'S SPREADING THE, THE SMEAR PRETTY THIN FOR  IN TERMS OF HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU'RE REPRESENTING. 
          AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE FLAGSTAFF KIND OF GOT AHEAD OF IT AND DECIDED THAT THEY WERE GONNA HAVE ZONES OR, YOU KNOW, UM, SECTORS OF THE CITY AND EACH  UP THAT WAY. 
          I DON'T KNOW IF PHOENIX DOES IT. 
          UH, AND THEN OF COURSE WE SEE JEROME KIND OF OVER, WHERE, WHERE'S FLAGSTAFF ON THE CRANE IS CRAZY MAKING. 
          SO HERE, I'LL ZOOM IN AND WE'LL KIND OF TAKE A LOOK AT THIS MORE. 
          UH, BUT I WANT, WHEN I, WHEN I CLICK INTO THE, UH, GRAPH HERE, THERE'S, UM, A COUPLE OF FEATURES I WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT HERE BEFORE WE, UH, DOVE IN. 
          SO I, I DREW THESE KIND OF MAGENTO LINES ON THE CHART TO SHOW THAT I WAS THROWING OUT OUTLIERS. 
          SO EVERYTHING BETWEEN THE TWO MAGENTA, UH, BANDS THAT YOU SEE ARE KIND OF THE, WHAT I CONSIDER THE STUDY AREA. 
          AND, UH, THEN I COMPUTED AN AVERAGE AND A, UH, MEDIAN. 
          NOW THIS IS IN LOGARITHMIC SCALE, SO THE MEDIAN, UH, WHICH IS THE MAGENTA LINE IS IN FROM THE MIDDLE BETWEEN THE TWO. 
          WHY DID YOU CHOOSE A LOG SCALE? BECAUSE I COULDN'T SHOW THE DATA, LIKE EVERYBODY ENDED UP BOOM'S FLAT AT THE BOTTOM AND THEN BOOM, HERE'S PHOENIX WAY AT THE TOP . 
          AND SO, UH, THAT KIND OF KEPT EVERYTHING ON SCREEN, BUT THE MAGENTA LINE IS THE MEDIAN. 
          SO, UM, AND THEN THE GREEN LINE IS THE AVERAGE. 
          SO WE HAVE ABOUT A DOLLAR 50 PER RESIDENT MEDIAN AND A DOLLAR 20 AVERAGE. 
          SO WE'RE BELOW BOTH THE AVERAGE AND THE MEDIAN IN TERMS OF WHAT WE SPEND PER PERSON, PER RESIDENT. 
          SO THAT, THAT STARTS TO, YOU KNOW, BE ABLE TO TELL A STORY A LITTLE BIT, UM, THERE ABOUT HOW YOU COULD UP THE NUMBER A LITTLE BIT TO AT LEAST GET TO THE AVERAGE, UM, AND PERHAPS EVEN THE MEDIAN. 
          AND SO WHEN WE, UH, SCROLL 
          [00:05:01]
THIS, SO HERE WE SEE SEDONA RIGHT AT THIS HORIZONTAL LINE AT 10,000 RESIDENTS. 
          AND YOU SEE A LOT OF WOMEN THAT HAVE MORE THAN 10,000, I WOULD SAY LESS. 
          BUT WHEN YOU LOOK OVER AT THE ONES THAT ARE NEAR US, YOU START TO SEE SOME, YOU KNOW, JUST BASED PURELY ON POPULATION, SOME COMPARABLES. 
          UH, WINSLOW SHOW LOW, UH, PAIGE TOSON TOSON IS ALMOST IDENTICAL TO US, AND I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT TOSON A LOT. 
          IN SOME RESPECTS. 
          THEY'RE THE PERFECT COMPARABLE OTHER, IN OTHER RESPECTS. 
          UM, THEY, THEY JUST COME UP SHY OF BEING PERFECT, COMPARABLE. 
          WELL, I'LL, I'LL EXPLAIN WHAT THAT I, WHAT I MEAN BY THAT. 
          UM, SO, YOU KNOW, WHERE SHOULD SEDONA LAND IN THIS? LIKE, WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF, UM, YOU KNOW, SMACK DAB IN THE MIDDLE OF HERE AT THE CROSSROADS, UH, OF A DOLLAR PER RESIDENT AND 10,000 RESIDENTS, RIGHT? AND SO SHOULD, IS THERE, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE A CASE FOR WHERE IF WE SHOULD MOVE FROM THIS OTHER THAN THAT AVERAGE AND THE MEDIAN AMOUNT FOR THAT STATEWIDE. 
          THIS ALL STILL USES JUST THE NOMINAL POPULATION. 
          YOU WERE GIVEN SOME WORK BEFORE ABOUT, THAT'S A MISLEADING INDICATOR FOR US IF YOU WERE TRYING TO FIND A YES. 
          SO, UH, THE PROBLEM, WHAT WE CONCLUDED ABOUT POPULATIONS THAT WE HAVE A LARGE TOURIST INFLUX AND TOSON, UH, WILL COME UP AGAIN BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LARGE TOURIST INFLUX AS WELL, BUT THEY ALSO HAVE A LARGE NUMBER OF FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES. 
          SO THEY HAVE OVER 50, I THINK, OR SO FORTUNE 500. 
          SO THEY COLLECT A LOT OF TP TWO TAXES, AS DO WE. 
          AND SO WE WILL LOOK AT TPT HERE IN A SECOND. 
          UM, SO TPT DATA HASN'T REALLY CHANGED MUCH, UM, SINCE LAST WE LOOKED AT IT. 
          WE HAVE, UM, UM, I PUT SOME KIND OF DESCRIPTIONS HERE FOR ANYBODY THAT MIGHT BE READING FROM HOME ABOUT WHAT TPT IS, IT'S EQUIVALENT OF SALES TAX, BUT HAVING LOTS OF DIFFERENT CATEGORIES. 
          AND, UM, THEN I, I KIND OF BROKE OUT. 
          HERE'S THE TPTI, I MADE A CHART OF SHOWING THE PER CAPITA TPT, UH, COLLECTION, AND IT'S GONNA BE HUGE FOR US, RIGHT? BECAUSE WE COLLECT A LOT OF TPT FROM TOURISTS, PEOPLE OUTSIDE. 
          SO IT KIND OF MAKES IT LOOK LIKE EVERYBODY IN SEDONA IS GENERATING A TON OF, UH, SALES TAXES. 
          BUT THAT'S NOT THE CASE FOR US. 
          NOR IS IT THE CASE FOR TWO, UH, TUON, UH, TULSA, UH, WILLIAMS, THESE, THESE REALLY OUTLIER COLLECTORS OF TAX. 
          UM, WHEN YOU LOOK INTO WHAT THESE CITIES ARE, YOU, YOU'RE NOT SURPRISED TO FIND THAT THEY'RE ALL THE TOURIST CITIES. 
          SO PARADISE VALLEY HAS A BUNCH OF THAT PAGE, JEROME WILLIAMS, THESE ARE ALL THE BIG NAMES THAT YOU WANT TO HIT IN ARIZONA, RIGHT? UM, SO THE TPT IS A VERY INTERESTING NUMBER, UH, TO, TO USE AS A DIMENSION, BUT THE QUESTION IS, WOULD YOU RELY SOLELY ON THAT TO MAKE A DECISION? AND I, SO PROBABLY NOT. 
          UM, THAT'S WHY WE WANTED TO INCLUDE OPERATING EXPENSE FOR THE BUDGET. 
          UH, I ALSO INCLUDED INCOME TAX AS A GENERAL SENSE OF AFFLUENCY. 
          UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT AFFLUENT DESERVE TO BE, YOU KNOW, THE COUNCIL MEMBERS DESERVE TO BE PAID MORE JUST BECAUSE THE RESIDENTS ARE AFFLUENT OR NOT. 
          BUT, UM, IT'S A DATA POINT TO LOOK AT. 
          UM, SO AGAIN, UH, ALL I DID HERE REALLY WAS CHANGE IT UP AND SAY, OKAY, HERE'S THE AVERAGE TPT AND AVERAGE TPT PER CAPITA. 
          UH, SO WHERE DOES, WHERE DOES SEDONA RANK ON THIS SCALE? AND WE KIND OF BLOW THE WATER, THE NUMBER OUT OF THE WATER. 
          LIKE THERE'S ONLY A FEW CITIES, THERE'S A FEW CITIES THAT JUST REALLY HAVE HUGE  PER CAPITA IS $6,653 COLLECTED PER RESIDENT RESIDENT, BUT YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF TOURISTS COMING THROUGH THERE ALL THE TIME, RIGHT? YEP. 
          AND SO SEDONA AND TULSA ARE SIMILAR IN SIZE TO A POPULATION RIGHT AROUND 10,000. 
          AND SEDONA HAS 4,600 IN TPT COLLECTS TO ACCESS COLLECTED PER RESIDENT. 
          AND TULSA HAS 5,600. 
          THOSE ARE REALLY BIG 
          [00:10:01]
NUMBERS BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE 90TH PERCENTILE, THE 90TH PERCENTILE IS JUST UNDER $2,000. 
          SO THAT MEANS WE'RE WAY OFF THE CHART IN TERMS OF COLLECTING SALES TAXES COMPARED TO MOST CITIES. 
          UM, THE AVERAGE TPT TOTAL IS A LITTLE BIT LESS FOR SEDONA THAN TOLSON. 
          TULSA BEATS US. 
          UM, WE HAVE 44,000 AND THEY HAVE 52,000, SO THEY'RE COLLECTING A LITTLE MORE TAXES ALL UP. 
          UM, AND WE JUST HAVE A LITTLE BIT LESS RESIDENTS TO SPREAD THAT AROUND, SO OUR CAPITAL NUMBER ACCOUNT GOES UP. 
          SO WHAT'S UP WITH TULSA? WHY DOES I, I KEEP MENTIONING TULSA. 
          EXACTLY, EXACTLY. 
          WOLF . 
          YEAH. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO IF WE ZOOM INTO THE MAP HERE, AND SORRY AGAIN FOR THOSE AT HOME, UH, IT'S IN THE SOUTHWEST QUADRANT, UH, OF PHOENIX AREA. 
          YOU CAN SEE IT'S JUST KIND OF TUCKED IN THIS ONE LITTLE AREA. 
          NOTHING NECESSARILY GEOGRAPHICALLY REMARKABLE ABOUT THAT. 
          UM, BUT IT'S GOT A HIGH CONCENTRATION OF, OF, UH, FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES. 
          AND IN ADDITION, IT HAS IT, YOU COULD ARGUE IT'S VERY ANIMATED BY THE ARTS. 
          SO I WON'T GO INTO READING THROUGH ALL THIS, BUT THEY HAVE MUSIC FESTIVALS, LATIN, UH, 4TH OF JULY MOVIES IN THE PARK, UH, LATINA THING, PRIDE DAY, VETERANS DAY, JUST ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT THEY DO. 
          AND, AND THEY'RE VERY MUCH ANIMATED BY THE ARTS THEY HAVE ON THE PUBLIC ART. 
          AND SO THEY'RE ALWAYS INFLUXING THESE PEOPLE THAT THE SPEND, YOU KNOW, ON OR GENERATE TPT COLLECTION. 
          SO, UM, ANOTHER CASE OF OF OF HAVING TO DO OPERATIONS FOR WAY MORE THAN JUST THE RESIDENTS. 
          SO THAT MAKES IT A VERY NICE COP TO  IN THAT RESPECT. 
          SO THEN IN TAX, I WON'T TALK ABOUT, THAT HASN'T REALLY CHANGED ANYMORE. 
          IT'S PROBABLY THE LEAST INTERESTING NUMBER THERE, BUT IT'S, IT'S THE DATA POINT WE GET ON TO. 
          SO WHAT I DID WAS IS, UM, EACH CITY IS REQUIRED TO SUBMIT TO THE ARIZONA AUDITOR GENERAL, UM, A SET OF SCHEDULES AND SCHEDULE A IS A WRAP UP SCHEDULE THAT GIVES THIS SOME INTERESTING NUMBERS. 
          THE THREE NUMBERS THAT I PICKED OUT, UM, NEED A CONFIRMATION ASPECT FROM BARBARA, BUT IT IS TOTAL EXPENSES, THE BUDGETED TOTAL EXPENSES. 
          AND WE USED A YEAR 25, 26, BECAUSE SOME CITIES HADN'T FORMALIZED THEIR BUDGET FOR THIS, THIS LATEST CYCLE. 
          A LOT OF 'EM HAVE SINCE I STARTED TALKING WITH DATA, BUT THERE'S STILL SOME THAT HAVE NOT. 
          AND SO WE'RE JUST GONNA USE THE ONE YEAR BACK FOR THAT. 
          UH, INTERESTINGLY, IT ALSO INCLUDES THE DEBT SERVICE AND THE CAP EXPENSE. 
          SO NOW YOU CAN DO SOME MATH THERE AND THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF PROBLEM WITH THE MATH. 
          MAYBE A PROBLEM, MAYBE NOT. 
          I, DR. 
          BARBARA WROTE ABOUT THIS. 
          UM, BUT IF YOU TAKE TOTAL EXPENSES AND YOU SUBTRACT OUT THE CAPITAL EXPENSE AND THE DEATH SERVICE, YOU KIND BE LEFT TO KEEPING THE LIGHTS ON NUMBER AND THE KEEPING THE LIGHTS ON NUMBER THAT INCLUDES CONTINGENCY, RIGHT? SO THAT'S, SOME CITIES GO TO KNOW MUCH LARGER CONTINGENCY THAN THEY MIGHT, THAT COULD BE A SKEWING FACTOR THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO, TO LOOK FOR. 
          SO AFTER THIS MEETING, I WAS HOPING THAT I WAS ONLY GET IT BEFORE, BUT AT LEAST APPLES ME TO GET SOME OF BARBARA'S EAR JUST FOR FIVE MINUTES AND SAY, HEY, IS THAT A BIG ENOUGH CONCERN? OR CAN WE FLY WITHOUT WORRYING ABOUT THAT? IF, IF WE WANNA BACK IT OUT, UM, IT'S A LITTLE BIT PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE NOT ALL OF THE, UM, THE BUDGET DOCUMENTS INCLUDE THE DETAIL E SCHEDULE THAT HAVE THOSE . 
          SO I HAVE TO GO KIND OF DIG IN DEEPER TO TRY TO BACK OUT CONTINGENCY. 
          BUT IF WE JUST KIND OF BLUR OUR EYES FOR A SECOND AND, AND NOT WORRY ABOUT CONTINGENCY FOR THIS ROUND, WE, WE SEE THAT, UM, PROBABLY SO THAT WE HAVE A BUDGET BAND,  HAVE A BUDGET BAND OF CITIES THAT ARE EITHER 50% MORE BUDGET OPERATING EXPENSE, 50% LESS OPERATING THAN THAN SEDONA. 
          THAT GIVES US A BAND OF COMPARISON. 
          AND WE'RE GONNA SAY THE ONES THAT ARE ABOVE REALLY BIG CITIES, YOU KNOW, PHOENIX, GOODYEAR, AND THESE ARE LIKE IN BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF EXPENSES, RIGHT? IN THE, WHAT IS THE POPULATION IN TOTAL? IT'S RIGHT NEAR US. 
          YEAH. 
          9,000 9, 200, 200 COMPARED TO US, 9,600. 
          UM, SO USING 20, $25 FIRST ESTIMATES FROM THE CENSUS. 
          SO, UM, SO WE, WE GET A COLLECTION OF OF, OF THIS HERE. 
          AND WE SAY, OKAY, UM, YOU KNOW WHAT'S INTERESTING? SO IF I'M STARTING THIS CHART BY OPERATING EXPENSES, JUST COLUMN E HERE, DESCENDING, AND, UH, WE'RE 
          [00:15:01]
SLIGHTLY ABOVE THE MIDPOINT FROM THAT BAND. 
          AND, UM, THIS GIVES US WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER COMPARABLES JUST FROM A BUDGET PERSPECTIVE. 
          AND HERE IS, UM, SO WHEN WE GRAPH THAT OUT, WE GET THIS BAR CHART WITH 91 ITEMS ON IT, AND WE SEE SIT DOWN IS KIND OF NEAR THE MIDDLE. 
          AND OUR TULSA COMPARISON IS MORE TOWARDS THE 75TH PERCENTILE. 
          SO THEY'RE SPENDING CONSIDERABLY MORE THAN US. 
          UM, THEY ARE, UH, NOT IN THE BAND, I BELIEVE. 
          LEMME SEE, THEY'RE NOT IN THE BAND. 
          THEY'RE NOT IN THE BAND. 
          SO THEY'RE ABOVE. 
          SO THEY'RE SPENDING 195 MILLION ON OPERATING EXPENSE AND WE'RE DOWN TO 68 MILLION. 
          SO THEY'RE DEFINITELY A BIG MULTIPLE OF US, BIGGER IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY'RE BIDING AT. 
          SO IN TERMS OF ANCHORING OUR MAYOR AND COUNCILOR SALARY, TO THEM, THAT'S GONNA BE A LITTLE BIT MORE PROBLEMATIC. 
          WE WANNA, YOU KNOW, DO A BLENDED APPROACH. 
          SO WHEN WE TAKE A LOOK AT ANY ONE OF THESE NUMBERS, POPULATION, TPT INCOME TAX, THAT BEING THE LEAST INTERESTING IN BUDGET, ANY OF THEM IN ISOLATION DOESN'T REALLY HELP US, YOU KNOW, MAKE A STORY. 
          WHY WE CAN LOOK AT THE, THE LIST OF COMPARISONS. 
          SO WHAT I DID WAS I TOOK ALL THE BLUE BANDS, SO POPULATION 50% ABOVE 50% BELOW PPT COLLECTION, 50% ABOVE 50% BELOW WHERE THE SEDONA IS, THOSE BLUE BANDS ON EACH OF THOSE SHEETS COME INTO HERE AND WE SAY, OKAY, HERE ARE THE CITIES THAT ARE WITHIN THE BLUE BAND. 
          SO, AND THE QUESTION IS, OKAY, WHICH CITIES COMPARE ON MORE THAN ONE DIMENSION? SO THERE'S SEVERAL DOZEN CITIES THAT COMPARE ON AT LEAST ONE OF THE DIMENSIONS. 
          HOW MANY COMPARE ON THE SECOND DIMENSIONS? 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 18, COMPARE ON TWO OF THE DIMENSIONS AND ONLY ABOUT 10, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, ONLY 10, 1, 1, 12, 13 COMPARE ON THREE DIMENSIONS. 
          AND NONE OF 'EM COMPARE ON ALL FOUR DIMENSIONS. 
          SO THEN WHICH DIMENSIONS START TO MATTER? SO WE HAVE READY TO CHOOSE FROM, UH, AND YOU HAVE A COMBINATION OF POPULATION, INCOME, TAX, AND BUDGET. 
          WE SAID INCOME TAX ISN'T NECESSARILY INTERESTING POPULATION TPT AND INCOME TAX, RIGHT? THE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT YOU CAN BREAK THE STAFF, EACH OF 'EM HAVE INCOME TAX IN THERE, WHICH WE SAID IS NOT, DOESN'T, DOESN'T, DIDN'T GENERATE ANY MOTIONS OR STORIES THERE. 
          BUT POPULATION TPT AND BUDGET ONLY GIVES US ONE CITY TO COMPARE AGAINST, WHICH IS PARADISE VALLEY  WITH A SALARY OF ZERO. 
          OH MY GOSH. 
          AND SO, RIGHT? SO I, YOU KNOW, SO WE HAVE THESE KIND OF SECOND ORDER CITIES THAT COMPARE ON THINGS ON, WE'LL CALL TWO OF THE GOOD DIMENSIONS, RIGHT? SO POPULATION AND TPT, UH, BUT THEY ALSO INCLUDE INCOME TAX, WHICH ISN'T REALLY A STORY WE CAN DO MUCH WITH. 
          AND, UM, SO TULSA IS IN THE MIX. 
          UH, THEY'RE IN THE MIX FOR POPULATION AND TPT JUST NOT BUDGET. 
          SO THE, THE TWO DIMENSION COLUMN AND THE THREE DIMENSION COLUMN ARE KIND OF LIKE THE, THE CITIES WE COULD PICK FROM. 
          IF WE WANTED TO TELL A STORY OF, MAKE A STORY OF COMPARISON, UM, THAT'S INTERESTING. 
          I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW WE WANNA DO THAT OR IF WE WANNA JUST HAVE A STANDALONE PHILOSOPHY THAT SAYS, HERE'S THE UNIQUE THINGS ABOUT SEDONA AND WE'RE JUST GONNA GO WITH THAT . 
          WE KNEW THAT WE WERE HARD TO COMPARE. 
          YEAH, WE KNEW. 
          WE, WE, I THINK, I THINK THE BUDGET THING IS INTERESTING AND MAYBE PART OF THE STORY IS THE RESPONSIBLE BUDGET OF YOUR COMPARISON. 
          LIKE THAT'S WHAT WE'VE LEARNED IS LIKE, AS MUCH AS IT MAY NOT FEEL LIKE, FEELS LIKE WE SPEND A LOT OF MONEY ON CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS AND ALL THESE THINGS LIKE THE, OUR DATA SHOWS OUR BUDGET IS PRETTY RESPONSIBLE WHERE WE HAVE ROOT. 
          SO IF WE JUST LOOK AT TPT AND BUDGET ALONE, THE POPULATION IS JUST GONNA BE PROBLEMATIC FOR THE REASONS WE'VE GIVEN THEM BEFORE. 
          YOU KNOW, SO IF POPULATION AND INCOME TAX ARE KIND OF ALSO RAN DIMENSIONS, THEN YOU CAN HONE IN ON TPT AND BUDGET AND YOU SAY, OKAY, TPT IS GREAT BECAUSE IT GIVES US COMPARISONS FOR LIKE CITIES THAT ARE COLLECTING LOT OF SALES TAX DUE, TOURIST REVENUE, UM, AND THEN, AND OR THEY HAVE A TON OF EMPLOYEES THAT, YOU KNOW, SPEND LUNCH AND GET SOME, SOME FOODS THERE LIKE TULSA, RIGHT? THEY HAVE ALL THESE SHORT FIVE COMPANIES. 
          SO A LOT OF EMPLOYEES ARE COMING IN, SPENDING LOCALLY FROM LUNCH 
          [00:20:03]
AND, AND THEN WE GO HOME. 
          UM, BUT TPT AND BUDGET BRINGS IN THE BLUE CITY. 
          SO WE HAVE PARADISE VALLEY, WE HAVE PAYSON, UM, AND YOU KNOW, YOU CAN THROW IN A NEARBY CITY, WE'LL CALL IT COTTONWOOD, SO YOU HAVE A GEOGRAPHIC LOCALITY OPTION AS WELL. 
          AND, AND THOSE WOULD BE YOUR, YOUR COMPARABLES THERE. 
          AND I, I WILL JUST ALWAYS INCLUDE TOONS BECAUSE OF THE TAUS. 
          OH, ALL THE TOURIST ONES. 
          YOU, YOU, YOU KEEP SAYING THAT. 
          AND YET I'M NOT CONVINCED THAT TAURUS, THAT TALL TOLLESON IS A TOURIST DRIVEN COMPANY. 
          THEY HAVE A LOT OF EVENTS. 
          THEY HAVE A LOT OF EVENTS, BUT I THINK THEY GET ALL THEIR MONEY FROM THE BUSINESSES. 
          I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY GET A LOT OF HOTEL REVENUE. 
          I DON'T THINK PEOPLE ARE, TOURISTS ARE GOING AND STAY IN . 
          DEFINITELY IT'S NOT A DESTINATION. 
          ARE WE TRYING TO FIND SOMETHING THAT IS COMPARABLE SO THAT WHEN WE PRESENT THE DOLLAR AMOUNT, WE'RE GONNA SAY COMPARABLE TO X, Y, Z, AND THEN THAT'S THAT. 
          WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT TODAY IS WHAT ARE GONNA USE AS A BAROMETER FOR THE JUSTIFICATION  DOLLAR ENOUGH TO OUR COUNCIL. 
          AND THEN WELL, I, I, I WOULD THINK, YEAH, I MEAN, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, RIGHT? THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT WE'VE ALL BEEN THINKING ABOUT SINCE DAY ONE HERE. 
          AND, AND I STILL DON'T KNOW. 
          I, I THINK ALL THIS WORK SHOWS IN THE SO MANY DIMENSIONS THAT SEDONA IS UNIQUE IN DIFFERENT WAYS. 
          YOU KNOW, I I THINK POPULATION IS A DIFFICULT METRIC AS WE KNOW, BECAUSE I THINK OUR DAYTIME POPULATION, YOU KNOW, ARGUABLY IS TWICE THAT YOU USED A 50% METRIC ABOVE AND BELOW. 
          I THINK OUR DAYTIME, YOU KNOW, OUR AVERAGE ANNUAL POPULATION IN ANY GIVEN DAY IS TWICE WHAT OUR, OUR OFFICIAL POPULATION IS. 
          SO THAT SAYS, GO BEYOND 50%, TAKE A LOOK AT THESE THINGS. 
          BUDGET IS ANOTHER DIFFICULT METRIC BECAUSE WE DON'T OPERATE A WATER SYSTEM, NOR DO WE OPERATE A FIRE DEPARTMENT, RIGHT? AND I THINK IF YOU GO BACK AND LOOK AT THESE NUMBERS AND THE OTHER CITIES THAT ARE OUTSIDE THE SCALE OF 50%, THEY PROBABLY DO, SOME DO, SOME DON'T. 
          I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIGURE THAT AS WELL. 
          MM-HMM . 
          SO I THINK THIS IS ALL REALLY GOOD BACKGROUND WORK FOR JUST RECOGNIZING THAT SEDONA IS UNIQUE ON SO MANY DIFFERENT SCALES, AND WE STILL HAVE TO GO BACK TO WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO ACHIEVE THE HISTORY OF THE LACK OF DIVERSITY IN OUR COUNCIL OF CANDIDATES AND WHETHER PAY IS ONE ELEMENT THAT COULD CHANGE CHANGE. 
          I THINK IT'S GREAT. 
          DAVID, SORRY KELLY. 
          NO, GO AHEAD. 
          SO AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT, UM, BECAUSE WE HAVE THE METRICS, IF YOU WILL, FOR THE RATIONALIZATION, ARE WE LOOKING AT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO COME UP WITH THAT IS RATIONAL FOR ANOTHER USE ON THE COUNCIL PAGE? SEAN PRESENTED ALL THIS INFORMATION, WOULD THAT MOVE YOU? NOT SAYING YOUR, I KNOW WHERE YOU STAND ABOUT ALL THIS, BUT YOU KNOW, IF YOU JUST WERE A NEWBIE ON THE COUNCIL AND DOES ANY OF THIS INFORMATION MOVE YOU TO WANNA MAKE A CHANGE FOR COMPENSATION? I, I KNOW YOU CAN'T SPLIT YOURSELF IN TWO , BUT WHAT, WHAT IS YOUR FEELING? I MEAN, ALL OF THIS IS GREAT WORK AND THIS COMMITTEE'S MET A LOT. 
          WHAT MORE WOULD YOU NEED TO HEAR? I THINK THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, LAURA. 
          AND I THINK I'M OF TWO MINDS AND I THINK THERE'S REALLY, YOU KNOW, TWO CATEGORIES OF HOW YOU WOULD THINK ABOUT THIS. 
          YOU COULD LOOK AT ALL THIS DATA AND THINK, WOW, SEDONAS UNIQUE IN A DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS. 
          IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DO. 
          IT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE HERE. 
          I THINK THAT'S, AND I WOULD PUT MYSELF IN THAT DIMENSION OF HOW TO THINK ABOUT PROBLEMS. I THINK OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WE KEEP SHOWING UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD SOMEWHERE, AND THAT MIGHT BE MOTIVATION NOT TO MOVE TO BE OTHER. 
          THEY DON'T WANNA BE BOLD, PERHAPS THIS ISN'T 
          [00:25:01]
THE RIGHT WORD TO USE. 
          UM, YEAH, YEAH. 
          THE, THE PHILOSOPHY BASED IN THE COURT SITE IN JEROME WOULD HAVE THESE HUGE NUMBER OF DOLLARS PER RESIDENT THAT THE COUNCIL EXCUSE. 
          UM, THERE'S AN ETHOS BEHIND THAT. 
          AND, AND ALL, ALL OF THE ONES THAT ARE ABOVE THE MEDIA REALLY, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN, YOU CAN SAY THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE TAKING IN SOMETHING THAT WE ALSO WANNA HAVE AS A PHILOSOPHY. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS, . 
          IT'S, YOU KNOW, JUST THAT DIRECTION SEEMS TO GIVE US MORE DIVERSITY ON THE COUNCIL. 
          LIKE THAT'S, THAT'S OUR ARGUMENT. 
           CAN'T SAY WHY, WHY WE, YOU KNOW, TIE TO THESE OTHER CITIES, BUT, UM, IT'S THE ONLY THING WE CAN COME UP WITH THAT GETS US SOMEWHERE HEADING THE RIGHT DIRECTION OF DIVERSITY. 
          YEAH. 
          BECAUSE WE, WE HAVEN'T COME UP WITH ANY OTHER IDEAS AND WE TALKED ABOUT BENEFITS THROWING IN SOME THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          MAYBE THAT'S A SMALL CARROT, BUT IT COMES BACK TO, YOU KNOW, YOU WANT TO BE SAVE FREE TIME AND YOU KNOW, MARGINAL RATE. 
          AND, UH, WHEN YOU GO TO THE ARIZONA EARNINGS, LOOK AT THINGS, UM, I KNOW OUR HOURLY RATE IS $6 AND 15 CENTS FOR THE COUNCIL MEMBER AND $4 AND 23 CENTS FOR THE COUNSELORS. 
          THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S PRETTY LOW. 
          BUT A LOT OF CITIES DO, BUT A LOT OF CITIES DO. 
          WHEN YOU GO LOOK AT THE, UH, BACK TO THE POPULATION, YOU'VE GOT ALL OF THESE CITIES THAT HAVE MUCH GREATER NUMBERS OF, OF RESIDENTS THAT ARE PAYING PEANUTS, YOU KNOW, LESS THAN WE DO. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, PER RESIDENT ON A RESIDENT BASIS. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, AND WE DON'T KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE DATA THAT SHOWS THAT THEY'RE GETTING A BETTER ECONOMIC DIVERSITY OF CANDIDATES. 
          I MEAN, WE, WE DON'T, I'M NOT BEING TRACKED. 
          THAT'S NOT BEING TRACKED. 
          I'M CURIOUS ABOUT TAKING IT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF, OF JUST LITERALLY PAGE, YOU WERE JUST ON THE HOURLY RATE SINCE I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO TAKE IT FROM A DATA PERSPECTIVE IN A CONCRETE WAY. 
          WE HAVE A TON OF DATA FOR ANSWERING QUESTIONS WHEN WE GET THEM. 
          BOY, DO I THINK, I THINK SEAN CAN ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT DATA IN THIS STATE IF FAST, BUT I WONDER, SO YOU CAN'T FILL A MINIMUM WAGE JOB IN THIS TOWN. 
          IT'S NO ONE, NO ONE IS FILLING MINIMUM WAGE JOBS HERE. 
          IT'S NOT, UH, WHICH MEANS NO ONE IN TOWN IS GETTING PAID MINIMUM WAGE TIP, MINIMUM WAGE EXCLUDED. 
          UH, WHAT ABOUT THE ARGUMENT THAT WE DO PAY MINIMUM? THAT WOULD BE A HUGE CHANGE TO THIS NUMBER 1435. 
          I SHOULD, I SHOULD, YOU SHOULD  I DON'T PAY A MINIMUM WAGE. 
          THAT'S RIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          GOOD EXCUSE. 
          I WANNA SAY 1435 THAT IT'S IS OUR MINIMUM WAGE OR 1415 WAGE SAYING THE WORDS MINIMUM WAGE IS THAT WE CAN'T CLOCK HOW MUCH TIME A COUNCIL PERSON SPENDS OUTSIDE OF COUNCIL TIME. 
          NOW IF YOU WERE JUST GOING SAY, WELL, YOUR MINIMUM WAGE GOING TO BE TIED TO THE AMOUNT OF HOURS YOU SPEND ON MEETINGS, THEN, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A BAROMETER PEOPLE CAN LOOK AT. 
          WELL, BUT IF YOU JUST SAY MINIMUM WAGE, AND THEN EACH COUNCIL PERSON UH, COMES AND SAYS, WELL, I SPENT 50 HOURS THIS WEEK, NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT OVERTIME. 
          NO, NO, NO, I'M NOT, I'M NOT, I'M NOT SAYING WE PAID THEM MINIMUM WAGE. 
          I'M SAYING THAT'S THE START OF THE JUSTIFICATION FOR THE TOTAL FOR THE NUMBER. 
          YEAH, THAT'S JUST THE START OF THE JUSTIFICATION. 
          YEAH, YEAH. 
          LIKE, AND, AND I AND THAT IS STILL BASICALLY UNDERPAYING, RIGHT? BECAUSE YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          SO IT'S MORE ABOUT THE, WHERE WE'RE STARTING TO JUSTIFY WHATEVER NUMBER WE COME UP WITH. 
          IT'S GONNA BE IN THE FORTIES IF WE USE FULL-TIME AT, I SHOULD JUST BE NOW, I SHOULDN'T GUESS. 
          ONE MOMENT PLEASE. 
          . 
           14. 
          I'M GONNA SAY 1435. 
          YEAH, IT'S 1515 NOW AS 1515 AS OF JANUARY. 
          YOU KNOW, I BET MY GM KNEW THAT, WHICH MAKES ME THAT'S OKAY. 
          BETTER. 
          WHEN YOU SAID IT, I WAS THINKING 15 AND IT'S LIKE, I BETTER MAKE SURE I PUT IT ON YOUR POSTERS EVERY LAST YEAR. 
          IT WAS, WAS IT 14 SEVEN THE PREVIOUS YEAR AT 35 I THINK WAS A YEAR. 
          HOW LONG HAVE I HAD MY GENOME? ABOUT THREE AND A HALF YEARS. 
          SO THERE YOU GO. 
          WE TOUCHED ABOUT WHAT DID YOUR JOB DESCRIPTION YOU MEETINGS, YOU'VE GOT AN HOUR OR MAYBE TWO FOR PREP FOR MEETINGS, AT LEAST HEAVY MEETINGS. 
          SO WE'LL SAY FULL-TIME. 
          FULL-TIME. 
          MINIMUM WAGE IS 31 5 12. 
          SO THREE 1000, THAT'S 40 HOURS A THAT IS 40 HOURS A WEEK, 52 WEEKS A YEAR. 
          AND WE PUT IN OUR CALCULATOR FOR EARNINGS THAT WE HAD COUNCIL MEMBERS AT 30 HOURS, UH, A WEEK. 
          SO, AND THEN WE DIDN'T 
          [00:30:01]
COME UP WITH A WEEKS PER YEAR, BUT YOU'RE GONNA FIX SOME NUMBER OF WEEKS OFF FOR THE HOLIDAYS AND WHATNOT. 
          UM, SO IS IT 48 AT 30 THAT JUST IS GONNA, WE, THAT NUMBER DOWN IS MY CONCERN. 
          I, AGAIN, THIS IS A JUSTIFICATION FOR A STARTING POINT, RIGHT? I'M NOT ACTUALLY JUSTIFYING THAT THEY'RE PAYING, THEY'RE WORKING 40 HOURS A WEEK OR 52 HOURS OR 52 WEEKS A YEAR, RIGHT? I'M NOT TRYING TO JUSTIFY THAT. 
          WHAT I'M TRYING TO JUSTIFY, I THINK IS IF YOU WALKED INTO TOWN INTO SOMEPLACE WHO PLAYS 1515 AND YOU WEREN'T, AND YOU WERE SALARIED, WHICH WOULD BE TECHNICALLY NOT LEGAL, BUT SURE. 
          UH, THIS, THIS IS THE WAY THAT YOU BEHAVE. 
          I DON'T WANNA, I DON'T WANNA DIP BELOW THIS PERSONALLY. 
          I THINK THIS IS A STARTING POINT OF DIS OF JUSTIFICATION. 
          I DON'T NEED TO GET INTO THE NUANCE OF HOW MANY HOURS WE'RE ACTUALLY WORK, HOW MANY WEEKS WE'RE ACTUALLY WORK. 
          THIS IS A NUMBER THAT OUR TOWN DOESN'T PAY. 
          SO IT FEELS LIKE MAYBE IS LESS SHOCKING. 
          THAT IS A BIG CHANGE, RIGHT? IT'S NOT A LIVABLE WAGE. 
          WE KNOW THAT. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND I, OF THE OPINION THAT I DON'T THINK WILL START IN A LIVABLE WAGE WORLD. 
          I WOULD LOVE TO, I WOULD LOVE TO GO UP AND SAY, I THINK WE SHOULD PAY $65,000, EVEN THOUGH THAT'S VERY LIVABLE IN CHANNEL. 
          THE END HERE'S BENEFITS, RIGHT? BUT I THINK IT'S A, A JUSTIFICATION OF A STARTING. 
          AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE TO GO BECAUSE ALL THE DATA JUST THROWS US IN ANY WAY THAT WE WANNA LOOK, RIGHT? SO, SO I WANT BE ASSUMING THAT WE JUST NEED TO FIND THE NUMBER THAT FEELS GOOD FOR OUR GROUP AND THEN WORK BACKWARDS. 
          IT WOULD BE FAIR TO START AT A NUMBER AND THEN, YOU KNOW, GO FROM THERE. 
          SO I THINK THERE'S SOME, I DID GET TO, UH, THE COUNCIL OF FORMER COUNCIL PEOPLE, UH, INTERVIEW, AND THEY'RE NOT LOOKING AT THIS AS A NUMBER THAT, THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE MAKING. 
          BOTH OF THEM WERE OF THE FEELING THAT YOU'RE, YOU ARE NOT DOING THIS JOB FOR THE MONEY. 
          IT'S YOUR COMMUNITY SERVICE, RIGHT? YES, IT'S TRUE. 
          IT MIGHT NOT GET SOME YOUNGER PEOPLE, IT MIGHT NOT GET BAD. 
          THERE'S NOT YOUNGER PEOPLE, ANYONE WHO DOESN'T HAVE INCOME, ANYONE THAT NEEDS MONEY TO LIVE HERE, WHICH IS, WHICH IS A LOT OF PEOPLE. 
          DO YOU THINK THAT, I TALKED TO OUR COUNCIL, SAME THING. 
          I, WHEN I, BROCK AND I STARTED THIS PROJECT ALMOST A DECADE, DECADE AGO, THE CURRENT VICE MAYOR AT THE TIME BASICALLY GAVE ME THE PULL YOURSELF BEHIND THE BOOTSTRAPS TALK. 
          WHY WOULD WE GIVE MONEY WHEN IT'S A SERVICE? BUT THAT NEGATES THE WHOLE PROJECT. 
          THAT JUST NEGATES THAT WE WANT PEOPLE WHO REPRESENT OUR COMMUNITY ON COUNCIL. 
          IF, IF THEY DON'T WANT A DIVERSE MEMBER OF OUR COMMUNITY COUNCIL THAT WE SHOULDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING, RIGHT? THAT'S, THAT'S THEIR PREROGATIVE, RIGHT? WE'RE ARGUING ONE I CALL, I'M SORRY FOR , I'M JUST AFRAID I'M GONNA LOSE YOU ON THE CALL. 
          MY CALLS ROSE TO ONE MAYOR AND ONE COUNCIL PERSON. 
          THE THIRD ONE DID NOT ANSWER. 
          SO, UM, BOTH OF THEM, VERY MUCH SO TALKED ABOUT THIS BEING OF SERVICE AND, YOU KNOW, A SERVICE POSITION. 
          NOW, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN, UH, WRITE OFF VOLUNTEER HOURS OF YOUR TAXES WITH, YOU KNOW, MILES AND WHATNOT IF YOU'RE VOLUNTEERING. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, THIS TAKES OUT THAT TYPE OF THING. 
          BUT BOTH OF THEM FELT THAT, UM, THE TOWN WOULD REJECT ANYTHING TOO EXORBITANT. 
          AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT EXORBITANT IS. 
          THEY DID NOT SAY THEY FELT LIKE THEY WERE FAIRLY COMPENSATED AT THE TIME. 
          UM, THEY DID FEEL THERE WAS A LOT OF WORK INVOLVED. 
          UM, MAYBE THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT STAFF AT THAT TIME COULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, SUMMARIZED. 
          SO THEY DIDN'T SPEND THAT KIND OF TIME, BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY DID NOT FEEL THAT THE TOWN WOULD SUPPORT AN EXUBERANT AMOUNT. 
          AND THAT WAS THE END RESULT THAT I GOT FROM, UM, TALKING TO FORMER SERVICE PEOPLE, , BECAUSE DO WE NEED TO POTENTIALLY HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE GENERATIONAL DIFFERENCES OF WORK EXPECTATIONS IN WHAT WAS, WHICH WAS WHAT WE WERE ABLE TO LIVE ON AND DO DURING OUR AVERAGE AGE, UH, WORK TIME VERSUS WHAT THE REALITY IS NOW. 
          AND I THINK, I THINK THAT'S A, THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION, TALI, BUT I I LAYERED OVER IT IS CONFIRMATION BIAS WE'RE HEARING FROM 
          [00:35:01]
PEOPLE YES. 
          THAT SERVED BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT IT WAS A CIVIC RESPONSIBILITY AND MONEY WASN'T PART OF THE EQUATION. 
          AND WE'RE JUST GOING TO GET THAT ECHOED BACK BY GOING AND SURVEYING PEOPLE. 
          I THINK THAT'S A A GOOD POINT. 
          AND WE'VE ALL HEARD IT AND WE'VE ALL HEARD IT. 
          THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. 
          , BECAUSE MY SON HAS A DIFFERENT GENERATION, YOU KNOW, I GET MOM, IT'S NOT THAT WAY. 
          SO YES, I UNDERSTAND THAT COMPLETELY VOTERS. 
          A HUNDRED PERCENT. 
          THAT'S RIGHT. 
          I, I MEAN I, I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE CITY FOR MANY YEARS. 
          IS THERE A, IS THERE A STANDALONE SESSION WE CAN ASK? WHICH WAS, WHAT IS THE VALUE OF THE PERSPECTIVE OR SIMPLY, CAN YOU PUT, HOW CAN I, CAN YOU PUT AN ECONOMIC VALUE SO THE PEOPLE THAT NEED SOME MONEY TO BE INCENTIVIZED TO, TO RUN AND MAINTAIN THAT SCHEDULE OR THE EXPECTATIONS OF THE JOB? UM, WE WANT THEIR PERSPECTIVE. 
          WE'RE NOT GETTING THOSE PEOPLE APPLYING AND WE WANT THEIR PERSPECTIVE. 
          AND IS THAT WORTH SOME OBJECTIVE DOLLAR AMOUNT? LIKE JUST SOME, IS THAT LIKE AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PERSPECTIVE OR, YEAH, RIGHT. 
          LIKE EXPERIENCE PERSPECTIVE OR SPEND MONEY FOR CERTAIN, YOU KNOW, CONSULTANTS AND OTHER THINGS, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER. 
          SO, UM, CAN YOU TAKE THE BASE CASE AND THEN, YOU KNOW, HAVE SOME SORT OF NUMBER THAT YOU ADD TO THAT, THAT REPRESENTS THE, THE AMOUNT YOU'RE WILLING TO PAY TO GET THAT PERSPECTIVE? I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY DATA ON THE BENEFIT OF DIVERSITY WITHIN, UH, ECONOMIC, LIKE ECONOMIC BENEFIT. 
          WHETHER WE CAN FIND A GROUP THAT'S OUS IS ANOTHER THING. 
          BUT I WOULD GUESS THAT WE COULD FIND SOME DATA THAT SHOWED THAT DIVERSITY WITHIN GROUPS OF PEOPLE BRING A WIDER PERSPECTIVE, WHICH CAN CREATE MORE DIVERSE SOLUTIONS. 
          AND LIKE YOU COULD ROLL THAT BALL DOWNHILL. 
          SO NOW I LOOK TO RUSS, HE HIRES A LOT OF PEOPLE  OR BEEN INVOLVED IN COMPENSATION DISCUSSIONS WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE. 
          HOW'S THAT? AND THERE ARE CERTAIN CATEGORIES OF JOBS THAT YOU PAY A PREMIUM FOR BECAUSE OF THEIR SCARCITY. 
          AND HERE WE HAVE A SCARCE SKILLSET, WHICH IS YES, BUT BY ASKING RUSS THOUGH, YOU'RE GONNA GET A SUBSET OF PEOPLE THAT ARE LOOKING TO MAKE A LIVING. 
          YEAH. 
          AND WE'RE NOT, WE'RE LOOKING TO INCENTIVIZE PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE PROBABLY MAKING A LIVING AND GET THEM TO SPEND SOME OF THEIR TIME AND PROBABLY OVERALL TAKE A NET PAY DECREASE . 
          BUT NONETHELESS, WE'RE TRYING, WE'RE TRYING TO INCENT THAT SYSTEM. 
          AND THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN ASKING RUSS. 
          I I, I, I DON'T WANNA PREVENT RUSS FROM ANSWERING THE QUESTION, BUT I'M TRYING TO  IT'S, IT'S THAT TO CLARIFY PERSONALLY WITH YOUR PERSPECTIVE, BUT I WOULD LIKE THE FUTURE TO BE ENOUGH MONEY THAT IF SOMEONE WOULDN'T BE WORKING MULTIPLE JOBS, I DON'T THINK WE CAN START THERE. 
          I DO NOT THINK WE CAN START THERE. 
          YEAH. 
          AND THAT IS FLAGSTAFF'S GOAL IS TO GET TO THE POINT. 
          AND, AND THAT'S EXACTLY FLAGSTAFF'S PERSPECTIVE TOO. 
          THEY STARTED OFF WITH AN IDEA ABOUT THAT, THAT A COUNCIL JOB SHOULD PAY TO LIVE RIGHT? IN FLAGSTAFF. 
          AND WHAT THEY ENDED UP WITH WAS AN EXPERIMENT AT A LOWER NUMBER THAN THAT, RIGHT? BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T TAKE THAT BIG. 
          SO I WAS JUST LIKE TO REMIND THAT WHERE THE INCENTIVIZING THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE A LESS FLEXIBLE SCHEDULE IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY. 
          YES. 
          THE INTENTION, I HOPE IF YOU GET SOMEONE WHO IS LIKE ONE OF THE SMARTEST PEOPLE IN THESE NICHE THINGS, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE THINGS LIKE HAVING A PLANNER OR AN ARCHITECT OR SOMETIMES OF THOSE THINGS ON AN ENGINEER ON YOUR A WORKING ONE, MAKE DECENT MONEY. 
          INTEL NOT SUPER GREAT, BUT LIKE FINE, HAVING, BEING ABLE TO HAVE A PROFESSIONAL WHO IS LIKE ON BEST PRACTICES AS OF TODAY WOULD BE AWESOME. 
          AND THOSE PEOPLE WORK NINE TO FIVE, RIGHT? THOSE ARE USUALLY UNLESS . 
          SO I'M SAYING IN THE FUTURE, IN THE BIG PICTURE OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH, LET'S NOT FORGET THAT WE COULD GET LIKE AN EXPERT PROFESSIONAL IF IT WAS PAID ENOUGH TO LIVE. 
          BECAUSE YOU GET THAT BALANCE OF I'LL TAKE LESS MONEY TO SERVE, BUT I STILL HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO LIVE TO LIVE. 
          YEAH, YEAH. 
          WELL,  PEOPLE IS, YOU KNOW, THEY REPRESENT, BUT THEY DON'T, UH, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE ONE EMPLOYEE AND THAT'S THE CITY MANAGER. 
          AND SO IT IS NOT THEIR JOB TO RUN THE CITY PER SE. 
          THEIR JOB IS TO REPRESENT THE 
          [00:40:01]
PEOPLE. 
          THAT'S THE BIG HUGE DIFFERENCE. 
          BECAUSE IN MY OPINION, YOU GET PAID THE EXPECTATION OF THAT JOB. 
          AND YEAH, I KNOW YOU TAKE A LOT OF BS FROM PEOPLE WHEN YOU'RE A PUBLIC OFFICIAL. 
          UM, THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT IT, BUT THAT'S, YOU GOTTA BE ABLE TO BALANCE IT, YOU KNOW, IS WHAT IS THEIR JOB? THEY, THEY ONLY HAVE ONE EMPLOYEE. 
          LET ME TELL YOU, YOU KNOW, JUST TO BE BRIEF ON THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION FROM THE PERSPECTIVE IS WHEN I'M DEALING WITH FOLKS WHO ARE TRYING TO GET INTO THE MARKET AND LIVE IN SEDONA VERSUS WILLING TO JUST TAKE THE JOB IN SEDONA AND LIVE WHEREVER THEY MAY LOCATE WITHIN THE VALLEY OR FLAGSTAFF INCLUDED, UM, THE CONVERSATION USUALLY LEADS TO ABOUT TWO GRAND A MONTH FOLLOWING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT THEY COULD GET SOMEWHERE ELSE IN A HOUSE OR EQUIVALENT TO WHAT THEY HAVE COME FROM, WHETHER THEY'RE FROM CALIFORNIA OR FROM NEBRASKA. 
          THEY KNOW THAT THE DIFFERENCE IN GETTING INTO THE CITY IS ROUGHLY ABOUT TWO GRAND A MONTH. 
          SO IT'S, YOU KNOW, TO THAT END WHERE THEY CAN GET A APARTMENT FOR TWO GRAND A MONTH, SURE THEY CAN GET THAT THROUGH, BUT THEY'RE TRADING A HOUSE OR TRADING A SITUATION WHERE THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, 15 TO 2000 SQUARE FEET TRYING TO FIND THAT IN THE CITY VERSUS SAY 1500 TO 2000 SQUARE SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE AREA. 
          AND I TELL THEM THAT IN A GENERIC WAY SAYING THAT WAGE DOES WORK BECAUSE THERE IS AREAS THAT YOU CAN GET 2000 SQUARE FEET FOR ROUGHLY $2,000 LESS IN THAT UH, ENVIRONMENT, RIGHT? SO THEN IT'S ALL THE DIFFERENT GAMUT. 
          SO I HAVE GENERALLY SAID THAT IN THOSE COMMUNICATE WHEN THERE IS A PERSON SAYING, WELL, I CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE IN SEDONA, TAKE THIS JOB, I NEED MORE RESOURCES. 
          AND WHAT I SUGGEST IS THERE ARE OTHER PLACES TO LIVE. 
          NOW THE REASON THAT'S IMPORTANT TO THIS AND WHY I SAID IT IS THE FOLKS YOU WANNA LIVE HERE SHOULD HAVE SOME BASIS FOR THE DIFFERENTIAL. 
          AND YOU'VE GONE THROUGH ALL THE DIFFERENTIALS OF WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE FOR COMPETITIVE, GET THEM INTO THE CITY KIND OF WAGE. 
          THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT IT WOULD TAKE. 
          IF I WAS TO SAY SOMEONE WHO'S MAKING 74 WANTS TO LIVE IN THE CITY, I'D TELL THEM THEY NEED TO MAKE PROBABLY A HUNDRED IF THEY WANNA LIVE IN THE CITY THE SAME WAY THEY COULD LIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE VALLEY, IN OUR VALLEY, NOT THE VALLEY, BUT OUR VALLEY, UH, AT 75. 
          SO GIVES YOU A, I CAN JUST GIVE YOU THAT AS HOPEFULLY MAYBE ANOTHER CONTEXT TO YOUR CONVERSATION. 
          YEAH, I I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE. 
          CJ, WHERE'S YOUR HEAD AT? UM, I'M DEFINITELY STILL, LAST, LAST MEETING I ASKED CLARIFICATION ABOUT WHAT THE ORIGINAL INTENT WAS AND LIKE THE SPECIFIC WORDING. 
          'CAUSE I DO THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT. 
          UM, IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S AT LEAST THREE DIFFERENT SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT THAT WE'RE APPROACHING. 
          ONE IS ENTIRELY DATABASE, WHICH WOULD SAY WE'RE SOMEWHAT IN THE RIGHT AREA. 
          MAYBE WE COULD JUSTIFY GOING A LITTLE HIGHER, MAYBE 16 K FOR THE MAYOR, RIGHT? BUT DATA WISE, I FEEL LIKE THAT'S KIND OF SOMEWHERE IF, IF THE, IF THE, IF THE END GOAL IS COMPARABLE CITIES, IF, YOU KNOW, JUST IF IT'S FOLLOWING RIGHT, KIND OF WHAT'S THE, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST THE BASE MINIMUM WAGE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 
          WE'RE KIND OF ENDING UP IN MAYBE A 30 TO 40 AREA. 
          AND THEN IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LEVEL WAGE, WE'RE GOING TO A 60 TO 80 AREA. 
          AND THAT, THAT WE'RE, WE'RE STILL LOOKING AT WHAT'S BASICALLY THE, THE BARE MINIMUM OF THAT. 
          WE, THE JUSTIFICATION TO THE PEOPLE AND, AND THE COUNCIL HAS IS IT, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE PLENTY OF PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA SAY IT SHOULD BE ZERO, SHOULD BE PARADISE VALUE. 
          THEY SHOULD BE DOING IT OUT THE KINDNESS OF THEIR HEART AND SERVICE THE COMMUNITY. 
          UM, SO I DO, I DO THINK FROM THE, THE ORIGINAL INTENT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE . 
          IF IT FEELS LIKE IF THE ORIGINAL INTENT WAS WE WANT, UH, THE COUNCIL AS IT WAS STATED WAS TO MAKE SURE WE'RE COMPARABLE, THEN IT FEELS LIKE IF WE GO AND SAY 60,000, THEN WE'RE JUST AN ERRANT GROUP THAT HAD OUR OWN IDEOLOGY GOING INTO IT . 
          AND THEY SAID WE WANTED A COMPARABLE NUMBER AND YOU GAVE US THIS IDEOLOGY OF OH, THEN WE'LL WAIT IF WE DIDN'T SAY THAT'S WHAT WE WANTED. 
          COUNCIL DIDN'T SAY THAT. 
          AND I THINK THAT WAS WAS A VERY IMPORTANT DISTINCTION, WHETHER I AGREE WITH THAT OR NOT. 
          [00:45:02]
YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          SO SPECIFIC REQUEST OF THE COUNCIL IS I THINK THE YEAH, YEAH. 
          I, THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. 
          AND I, I THOUGHT I TRIED TO WRITE UP THE SORT OF ADDITIONAL STATEMENT WHICH I SUBMITTED, AND I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT IT'S NOT JUST FOR US TO DO A CONSULTANT WAGE STUDY AND TO SEE WHETHER WE'RE COMPARABLE TO OTHER CITIES. 
          THE CONCERN OUTRIGHT WAS WE'RE ONLY DRAWING FROM, YOU KNOW, A CERTAIN ECONOMIC SLICE OF OUR COMMUNITY AND, AND WE WANTED TO SEE IF WE CAN CHANGE THAT. 
          YOU, AND, AND SO THING I DIDN'T WANNA POINT OUT, THIS IS A FOOD FOR THOUGHT THAT I WAS THINKING ABOUT. 
          UH, I MEAN I REALIZED WHEN WE LOOKED AT, UM, FLAGSTAFF VERSUS SEDONA, FLAGSTAFF JUST DID THIS MONUMENTAL MOVE TO INCREASE THE SALARY. 
          THEY'RE STILL BELOW US IN THE PER CAPITA. 
          IN THE PER CAPITA. 
          SO THEY'RE JUST NOW APPROACHING THAT $1 PER RESIDENT. 
          YEAH. 
          CAP THE PER CAPITA'S HARD. 
          'CAUSE YOU HAVE THIS LIKE REALLY SHARP BELL CURVE WHEN IT COMES TO POPULATION BECAUSE LIKE IF YOU DID A PER CAPITA PHOENIX AND WE GOT CLOSE TO US, YOU KNOW, MILLION CRAZY MONEY, SO YOU HAVE THIS LIKE REALLY SHARP LIKE UP THING. 
          YEAH. 
          AND I GET WHAT THE INTENTION OF THE PER CAPITA IS. 
          IT'S IMPORTANT. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH, TOTALLY. 
          BUT I THINK THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM WHEN IT, ONCE YOU BREAK THOSE MEDIUM SIZED CITIES WHERE IT'S LIKE, YES, THEY'RE MAKING LABLE WAGE ON A PER CAPITA THAT IS LESS THAN US, RIGHT? OR WHATEVER, LIKE HYPOTHETICALLY. 
          WELL THAT'S WHERE YOU START LOOKING AT THESE NUMBERS THAT ARE LIKE SAFFER WIND'S. 
          LOW TO PAGE IS GETTING PRETTY LOW IN POPULATION, REAL PERSPECTIVE TO US. 
          BUT, UM, IF YOU COME IN HERE AND SAY THAT THERE'S SOME WIGGLE ROOM, OH, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GET IT UP THERE. 
          I, ONE OF THE, I TALKED TO ROB ADAMS AND, AND HE WAS BRISTLING AT 21,000 AND HE WAS MORE SAYING THAT A 16, UM, FOR, SO THAT'S JUST, THAT'S ALSO JUST FOR PHARMACIES. 
          16 IS IS STILL JUST FOR CIE, RIGHT? LIKE 16 ISN'T MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN ANYONE'S LIFE. 
          YEAH. 
          IT'S, AGAIN, IT'S AGAIN FOR CIE, IT'S THE SAME AS WHERE WE'RE AT AND YOU KNOW'S GONNA WALK AWAY FROM THAT KIND OF MONEY JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE ACTUALLY THERE FOR . 
          SO I THINK DO WE NEED TO GET TO ANOTHER TODAY THAT, THAT I'M KIND OF AT THE POINT OF WHAT'S THE LINE OF FOR FUNDS, LIKE IT JUST SUPPLEMENTS AN R AND LIKE AN A RETIREMENT INCOME BASICALLY, OR AN INCOME THAT IS LESS WORK WHERE THE LINE OF THAT VERSUS AN ACTUAL NUMBER THAT WILL HELP SOMEONE MAKE THIS A WORKING PROFESSIONAL MAKE TIME. 
          WELL WHAT ABOUT SPOUSES, NON-WORKING SPOUSES? IS THAT ENOUGH OF A DIVERSITY SHIFT TO CAPTURE SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE? TO WHOM A THOUSAND DOLLARS A MONTH PIN MONEY IS PRETTY DANG COOL. 
          AND YOU KNOW, I, I'M TAKING CARE OF THE KIDS AND I'VE GOT OUT MY SCHOOL PROGRAM OR WHATEVER, BUT YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT SOME TIME IN MY DAY AND SO A STAY-AT-HOME PARENT COULDN'T DO A SKIP WITHOUT CARE AND A THOUSAND BUCKS A MONTH WON'T PAPER CARE AS A PARENT. 
          WELL, A SINGLE WHAT'S INVOLVED, AGAIN, LOOKING AT WHO'S GONNA RUN FOR COUNCIL, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET IS MORE DIVERSITY. 
          AND SO I, I WAS A SINGLE MOTHER, I RAN FOR AN OFFICE, I GOT ELECTED, YOU KNOW, I KNOW WHAT'S INVOLVED. 
          I THINK, YOU KNOW, ALL THE NUMBERS ARE THERE, LET PEOPLE DECIDE IF THEY WANNA BE OF SERVICE. 
          I, I WOULDN'T, IF I HAD BEEN A PROFESSIONAL, I DON'T KNOW ANY PROFESSIONAL THAT WOULD PUT UP WITH THAT KIND OF A JOB PERSONALLY, . 
          SO, YOU KNOW, I'M RETIRED SO I'VE BEEN ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE, RIGHT. 
          AND, AND IT IS A PUBLIC DUTY FOR ME, CIVIC DUTY. 
          AND YOU CAN ALSO SAY, SORRY, GO AHEAD. 
          SO THAT'S ALL, YOU KNOW, I MEAN I THINK THAT'S INTERESTING THAT ROB HAD TO TAKE, UM, YOU KNOW, WHERE WOULD I NEED IT? MAYBE 18 AND KIND OF LEAVE IT AT THAT. 
          I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF AN INCREASE, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT Y'ALL SAID THE CURRENT MAYOR MAKES, BUT, UM, WELL WE ONLY NEED A BASE HIT. 
          RIGHT. 
          WE DON'T NEED TO KNOCK THE BALL OUT OF THE PARK. 
          LIKE YOU GET ALL THE DIVERSITY YOU COULD EVER HAVE IN ONE GO. 
          THEY CAN DO A NUMBER AND SEE WHAT THAT DOES AND THEN MAKE A CHANGE AND RIGHT. 
          I THINK THAT THAT'S, THAT'S RIGHT. 
          THAT'S THE REALITY OF THE FLAG. 
          THAT'S WHAT FLAGSTAFF END UP DOING. 
          I DID WANNA ASK THOUGH, NOW THAT THE ELECTION 
          [00:50:01]
IS OVER AND WE LOOK AT, UH, WHO RAN AND WHO WON AND WHAT THIS COUNCIL'S GONNA LOOK AT, WE ARE GONNA HAVE A MAYOR AND TWO COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO ARE WORKING, WHICH IS, WHICH I THINK IS REALLY QUITE UNIQUE IN OUR RECENT HISTORY. 
          WE HAVEN'T HAD THAT MANY WORKING PEOPLE ON COUNCIL IN LONG TIME. 
          WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED? WHY IS THAT CHANGE ALREADY HAPPENED WITHOUT THIS MONEY INCENTIVE THAT WE'RE THINKING ABOUT? I, BUT I, AND I'M REALLY GENERALLY INTERESTED IN YOUR THOUGHTS YEAH. 
          ABOUT WHAT YOU GUYS THINK IS PEOPLE ARE HAVING TO WORK INTO AN OLDER AGE BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMIC REALITIES, LIVING GENERAL, BUT ALSO THE ABJECT PROFITEERING. 
          LIKE PERO, IT'S EXTRACTIVE AND THAT MEANS YOU'RE WORKING LONGER. 
          AND SO IF YOU GET TO A POINT IN YOUR LIFE WHERE YOU THINK YOU HAVE THE WISDOM TO CONTRIBUTE, BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO WORK, YOU'RE GONNA THROW IT OUT IN THE RING. 
          ARE THEY SELF-EMPLOYED? I MEAN, DO THEY HAVE THEIR OWN ? SO, YOU KNOW, BRIAN IS SELF-EMPLOYED. 
          HE, YOU AND I GET THE SENSE THAT HE'S NOT WORKING LONGER INTO HIS LIFE. 
          YOU KNOW, IT'S A PERSONAL SENSE. 
          YES. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, UM, UM, DEREK IS A, AN ATTORNEY AND I GET THE SENSE THAT HE'S LEAVING A LOT OF MONEY OFF THE TABLE BY WORKING. 
          UH, UM, BUT NONETHELESS, I GET THE SENSE IT'S DRIVEN MORE BY A SENSE OF CIVIC DUTY THAN HE'S TAKEN THE HIT PERSONALLY. 
          AND THEN, YOU KNOW, OUR NEW COUNCIL MEMBER, I DON'T REALLY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HIS FAMILY. 
           A HOTEL. 
          YEAH. 
          I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE IS IN THE FAMILY HIERARCHY, BUT I WENT TO SCHOOL WITH HIS YOUNGER ASSIST. 
          RIGHT. 
          HOW OLD IS HE? IS HE A YOUNG PERSON NOW? HE'LL BE THE, I WOULD, I DON'T KNOW HOW OLD HE IS. 
          HIS SISTER WAS A COUPLE YEARS OLDER THAN ME. 
          HE AND DEREK NEED PROBABLY ARE PRETTY CLOSE IN AGE I WOULD GUESS. 
          I DON'T KNOW. 
          YEAH, WELL HE'S GOT THREE BUSINESSES. 
          DOES THE FINANCIAL STUFF, THE B AND B AND, AND ONE OF THE THINGS I CAN'T REMEMBER COMPARED TO, YOU KNOW, DAY GONE BY, RIGHT. 
          ALL OF THEM, WHAT EVERYBODY'S PLATFORM WAS. 
          BUT I DO THINK A LOT OF IT WAS ABOUT, AND NONE OF 'EM WOULD TURN IT DOWN. 
          WHAT'S THAT? NONE OF THEM WOULD TURN IT DOWN. 
          YEAH. 
          REALITY THINK FAIR IS THE RIGHT ONE. 
          I DON'T KNOW IF FAIR IS THE RIGHT, I DON'T KNOW IF FAIR IS THE RIGHT WORD. 
          I DON'T THINK FAIR IS A NO, I'M WONDERING THAT. 
          I DON'T THINK, I THINK FAIR CAN BECOME A CONSENSUS AND I JUST DON'T THINK THIS ITEM WILL HAVE A CONSENSUS BETWEEN OUR GROUP, BETWEEN COUNCIL, BETWEEN, I THINK THIS IS A MEET IN THE MIDDLE SCENARIO. 
          A MEET AT THE COMFORT. 
          YES. 
          OR IS EVERYBODY COMFORTABLE AND LESS ABOUT, WELL THIS, THIS IS FAIR AND IS THAT OUR JOB TO THINK ABOUT THE POLITICAL REALITIES AND THE MEAT IN THE MIDDLE NUMBER? OR IS IT OUR JOB TO SET A RECOMMENDATION BASED ON SOME PHILOSOPHY THAT MAYBE WE WANNA TRY AND OUTLINE? I THINK THAT'S, I I PERSONALLY, AND THEN LET COUNCIL DO WHAT COUNCIL'S GOING TO DO WITH THE RECOMMENDATION. 
          NO, I, I WANT THE OPINION THAT WE SHOULD COME UP WITH SOME KIND OF NUMBER TO START AT AND THEN TRY TO JUSTIFY IT. 
          AND THEN IF THEY CAN'T, WE CHANGE THE NUMBER. 
          OH, 18. 
          THAT'S A DOUBLE OH TWO. 
          WE ARE REPRESENTING BOTH SITU, ANYBODY TO GET BEAT UP IN THE PRESS OR SOMETHING THAT IT'S ABLE TO BE SWALLOWED. 
          WE'RE GONNA GET BEAT UP IN THE PRESS NO MATTER WHAT WE SAY. 
          I'M, I'M NOT KIDDING. 
          WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE GONNA TAKE ANY CONS WILL TAKE MEETING. 
          I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WILL IN THE PRESS. 
          I THINK WE WILL IN SOCIAL MEDIA. 
          YEAH. 
          I I I BE CRITIQUES NO MATTER WHAT WE SAY. 
          RIGHT. 
          THE FACT THAT WE EXIST IS THE . 
          THERE'S 5 5 6 COUNCIL ONE BEAR. 
          RIGHT. 
          WE'RE DOING NOW SIX PLUS ONE SEVEN . 
          CJ UM, SLIGHTLY ASIDE, SORRY. 
          [00:55:02]
WELL I THINK WE SH I THINK WE'RE GONNA, I I'M MO I'M MOTIVATED TO ASK US WHAT OUR NUMBER IS, BUT CJ YOU WERE GOING SOMEWHERE FIRST. 
          UH, NON-MONETARY COMPENSATION I THINK LIKE MM-HMM . 
          I, I I DO BELIEVE THAT THE, THE BASE, NO MATTER WHAT SHOULD BE, WE SHOULD BE OFF FOR HEALTHCARE. 
          AT LEAST. 
          I AGREE. 
          I HAVE I DINNER WITH FRIENDS LAST NIGHT WHO JUST HAD THEIR FIRST BABY. 
          THEY PAID $2,200 A MONTH AND THEY BOTH SELL SELF-EMPLOYED FOR HEALTHCARE AND IT'S TERRIBLE COVERAGE. 
          AND IF YOU ANNUALIZE THAT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, THE BENEFITS PACKAGE IS CONSIDERED WORTH. 
          I'M SURE THERE'S, YEAH I GIVE YOU A NUMBER. 
          BUT THAT ALONE BASICALLY EQUATES TO $24,000 A YEAR FOR UH, DOLLARS A YEAR OF VALUE FOR THEM IF ONE OF THEM WANTED TO RUN. 
          RIGHT. 
          UM, SO I DO THINK I AGREE THAT'S A MAJOR COMPONENT IN THE PERMANENT . 
          WHAT, JUST ASK IF YEAH. 
           YOU LAURA, YOU AND FAIR RUSS. 
          WHAT'S OUR POLICY FOR EMPLOYEES? WE OFFER HEALTHCARE FOR FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES. 
          ONLY PART-TIME EMPLOYEES FULL-TIME. 
          JUST OKAY. 
          PART-TIME EMPLOYEES ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR HEALTHCARE? CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          AND THEN AND IS IT JUST EMPLOYEE COVERAGE AND THEN HOW DOES THAT WORK? YEAH, SO WE HAVE A COPAY PLAN THAT THE EMPLOYEE WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE TO PAY ABOUT 200 A MONTH OR IF THEY WANTED. 
          OKAY. 
          AND ALL OF THE HIGH DEDUCTIBLE OPTIONS ARE GIVEN TO THEM FREE WITH A CITY CONTRIBUTING TO THEIR HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNT. 
          ROUGHLY AT LEAST FOR THE TWO, YOU KNOW, 1,720 500 PLANS ALMOST WHAT THAT HIGH DEDUCTIBLE COST PER YEAR. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO YOU CAN DO THE MATH THERE, BUT JUST ESSENTIALLY WHAT'S THAT? JUST EMPLOYEE ? YEAH, EMPLOYEE BASE. 
          NOW IF THEY HAVE ADDITIONAL UH, COVERAGE, IT'S ANYWHERE FROM PROBABLY ABOUT 80% ON AVERAGE THAT IS COVERED BY THE CITY FOR THAT. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND INCLUDES A WHOLE MATRIX. 
          BUT TRYING TO SUMMARIZE IT WITHOUT GETTING TOO DEAL. 
          BUT IF YOU COVER YOUR FAMILY, WE DO CONTRIBUTE A SLIGHT BIT MORE FOR HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNTS. 
          SO IN THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE SOMEONE HAS A FULL FAMILY ON THERE, THEY MAY BE PAYING A PREMIUM BUT THEY MIGHT BE SENDING ADDITIONAL HSA FUNDING, THEY'LL OFFSET THAT A LITTLE BIT. 
          SO THERE'S A WHOLE SLIDING SCALE. 
          BUT TO GET BACK TO THE REAL BASIC QUESTION, YOU'RE IN ABOUT 12 TO 1500 A MONTH FOR MOST OF THOSE HIGH DEDUCTIBLE PLANS WITHOUT AN HSA CONTRIBUTION. 
          AND IF YOU THEN INCLUDE AN HSA CONTRIBUTION, YOU ADD ANOTHER A HUNDRED, 200 A MONTH TO THAT. 
          SO YOU COULD BE AS MUCH AS $2,000, BUT LIKELY IN THE 1500 PER MONTH RANGE DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU KNOW IS OFFERED AND WHAT THOSE PLANS ARE. 
          BUT THOSE ARE THE HIGH DEDUCTIBLE PLANS AND PROBABLY COMPARABLE TO THE MARKET THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED. 
          YEAH, SO MUCH. 
          I PAY FOR MY AND MY COMPANY. 
          YOU JUST HAVE A LOT. 
          YOU HAVE . 
          YEAH. 
          SO WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF LEVERAGE IN THAT. 
          I WOULD BE CURIOUS WHAT LIKE YOUR MOST OUT OF POCKET TO YOUR EMPLOYEE, WHAT YOUR MOST EXPENSIVE I DEDUCTIBLE, LIKE YOUR CHEAPEST, MOST EXPENSIVE, YOUR CHEAPEST PLAN WITH MOST PEOPLE ON IT. 
          WHAT IS THE COST TO THE EMPLOYEE? 'CAUSE IF WE GO THIS ROUTE, I WANT WHATEVER WE PAY THEM TO BE ABLE TO COVER BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT THE IDEA OF HAVING TO TAKE MONEY FROM SOMEONE TO PAY HEALTH INSURANCE WHO SOMEONE LET ME GET THIS CORRECT. 
          WE, WE, IF WE ARE NOT PAYING THE, THE COUNSELOR ENOUGH AND THEY HAVE THEIR FULL FAMILY ON HEALTHCARE AND THAT NUMBER THAT IT COSTS THEM IS MORE THAN WE'RE PAYING THEM, THAT WOULD BE A PROBLEM BECAUSE IT'S IN MY LIFE AND I'M SURE IN YOURS, IT'S AN AUTOMATIC DEDUCTION. 
          THE IDEA TO HAVE TO BILL SOMEONE FOR THEIR HEALTHCARE WOULD BE APPLIED. 
          SO I'M CURIOUS IF WHAT A FAMILY WOULD COST ON THE CHEAPEST PLAN. 
          BECAUSE I KNOW FOR MY FAMILY AND MY TINY LITTLE COMPANY POLICY, IT'S LIKE $1,400 A MONTH OUT OF POCKET TO ME THE COMPANY ALREADY IS PAYING A PORTION. 
          SO IF WE'RE PAYING IN MY SCENARIO LESS THAN $1,400 A MONTH, THEN WE'RE BILLING ON. 
          I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT'S HOW WE HAVE TO GO. 
          I'M JUST CURIOUS WHAT THIS, SO WE DON'T END UP IN THIS WEIRD DONUT HOLE OF HEALTHCARE BECAUSE THE HEALTHCARE THEY PROVIDE IS LIKELY BETTER THAN THE HEALTHCARE I PROVIDE. 
          UM, SO IF THEY WANNA COVER THEIR WHOLE FAMILY OUT OF CURIOSITY, WELL SOME, THE ADVANTAGE OF HAVING A BIG POINT A CITY BECAUSE YOU GET A BETTER, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. 
          SO I'D BE CURIOUS ABOUT THAT. 
           PEOPLE ULTIMATELY THERE WON'T BE A COUNCIL DECISION. 
          I DEFINITELY AGREE THAT I WOULD BE MORE THAN WILLING TO COMPENSATE THE COUNCIL PERSON FOR THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE TO SOME 
          [01:00:01]
DEGREE IF IT'S SO DECIDED. 
          BUT I DEFINITELY, I'M NOT SO, UH, ANY COST TO THE FAMILY THAT'S ON THE, UM, COUNCIL PERSON WHO DECIDES THAT THAT'S A PARENT THEY WANT? WELL THE PARENT, THAT'S JUST MY OPINION. 
          YOU, THE CITY MIGHT NOT BE A RU TO ANSWER THIS. 
          THEY MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO DO THAT. 
          LIKE YOU JUST HAVE SET PLANS WHERE IF THEY ADD THEIR FAMILY, THERE'S LIKE A, THERE'S LIKE, THERE'S A SLIDING SCALE. 
          SO JUST TO GIVE YOU A, GIVE YOU SOME NUMBERS TO WORK WITH. 
          THE MOST EXPENSIVE THAT WE EVEN CHARGED THE EMPLOYEE FOR ON A COPAY PLAN WOULD COST IF YOU INCLUDED YOUR WHOLE FAMILY ABOUT 400 IN THAT. 
          RIGHT? SO THAT, THAT 400 WOULD COST THAT FOR SPOUSE 800 AND ABOUT 800 FOR A FAMILY. 
          OKAY. 
          A MONTH. 
          YEAH. 
          NOT A PAYCHECK THAT WOULD BE THERE. 
          RIGHT. 
          400 PER CHECK CHECK OR ABOUT 800 FOR THE FAMILY. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT IF YOU GO TO THE LEAST EXPENSIVE, WE ACTUALLY COVER, BUT IT'S A 5,005 AND 10 PLAN THAT WE COVER COMPLETELY BUT ONLY COSTS THE CITY ABOUT 1600 BECAUSE IT'S A VERY HIGH DEDUCTIBLE 5,000 PLAN YOU CAN IMAGINE. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN. 
          BUT THE ONE THAT IS THE MOST POPULAR, WHICH COMES IN WITH THE INDIVIDUAL EMPLOYEE THAT DOESN'T HAVE A FAMILY, UM, THEY CHOOSE THAT NINE TIMES OUTTA 10 IS THE 1700 PLAN. 
          'CAUSE IT'S FREE. 
          THE CITY PUTS IN ABOUT 1700. 
          SO IT, IT IS A ZERO SUM GAME FOR AN EMPLOYEE. 
          BUT IN THAT, A FAMILY OF TWO OR THREE THAT IT ADDS TO IT IS ABOUT 600 A MONTH. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO, SO WE MAX NOT THAT 600 IS A GOOD NUMBER. 
          I WOULD THROW OUT THERE AS WHAT AT LEAST CURRENTLY, AND AGAIN, HEALTHCARE KEEPS GOING UP, BUT 600 WOULD COVER A FAMILY. 
          SO IF THE, IF THE COUNSELOR CAME IN WANTED THAT RELATIVELY INEXPENSIVE HIGH DEDUCTIBLE PLAN FOR THEIR FAMILY, THEY WOULD BE PUTTING OUT 600 A MONTH. 
          WHAT'S THE EMPLOYEE'S SHARE? THAT'S THE EMPLOYEE'S SHARE TO COVER THEIR WHOLE FAMILY. 
          AND I, AND I JUST WANTED TO KNOW THE EMPLOYEE'S SHARE SO WE KNEW YEAH. 
          TO COVER THEIR WHOLE FAMILY. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND IT'S A LITTLE LESS IF YOUR ONLY SPOUSE, SO LET ME, LET ME ASK THIS TO THE COMMITTEE. 
          WHO DO WE ALL FEEL THAT A HEALTHCARE EXPENSE IS SOMETHING THAT IS, YOU KNOW, WE'D WANNA PUT ON THE TABLE, SPEAK TO PEOPLE. 
          I I THINK I'M HEARING CJ IS THAT YEAH. 
          SEAN, ARE YOU WILLING TO THINK THAT THAT'S A BENEFIT THAT WE WANNA CONSIDER? YEAH, I'D SEE, YEAH. 
          AND LAURA, YES. 
          I IMAGINE. 
          YEAH. 
          SO THEN IS THIS A TRACKING DIVERSITY WITH THAT CARROT AND IS IT A WAIVABLE THING IF SOMEONE IS RETIRED AND ON SOCIAL SECURITY AND THEY'RE STILL RUNNING, YOU CAN SAY NO. 
          AND DO THEY GET THE EQUIVALENT CASH? NO, I WOULDN'T. 
          THAT'S NOT HOW JOBS WORTH, RIGHT. 
          LIKE I AGREE THING I WONDER, INSTEAD OF US TRYING TO FIGURE OUT ALL THESE DIFFERENT CITY PLANS AND ALL, WHAT ABOUT IF WE SAY THAT THE WINTER JOB COMES WITH A THOUSAND DOLLARS STIPEND FOR HEALTHCARE NO MATTER WHERE YOU DECIDE TO SPEND IT. 
          'CAUSE SOME PEOPLE COME IN WITH A HEALTHCARE, THEY JUST PLAN, THEY JUST LOVE AND THEY DON'T WANT THE SIT RIGHT OR THE HEADACHE OF IT. 
          BUT WE'RE, YOU KNOW, BUT WE'RE STILL TRYING TO, UH, SHOW THEM THAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT BOX FOR THEM. 
          SO HERE'S UP TO UP TO A THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR ANY HEALTHCARE PLAN WHEREVER YOU WANNA GET OR CHECK WITH THE CITY. 
          I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S IDEA. 
          I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU SAID, THEY RETIRED, THEIR COMPANY HAS A HEALTH PLAN AND THEY WANNA STAY WITH IT. 
          OKAY. 
          I, I LIKE THE IDEA OF, I DON'T KNOW IF I PAY A THOUSAND BECAUSE SHE JUST SAID 800 FOR A FAMILY. 
          NO, NO. 
          $1,700 COST TO THE, TO THE CITY. 
          YEAH. 
          I EMPLOY HUNDRED OR DID I THAT WRONG? YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          AND IN THE, WHAT I WOULD ASSUME TO BE THE MOST EXPENSIVE PLAN, IF THEY TRY TO COVER THEIR FAMILY, THE CITY WOULD BE PUTTING IN A LARGE CHUNK OF THAT, THE EMPLOYEE WOULD BE ON THE HOOK FOR ABOUT 800 A MONTH TO COVER THEIR WHOLE FAMILY AT THE BEST PLAN WE OFFER. 
          SO I'D LIKE TO SOUND AT THAT. 
          SO AS SOMEONE WHO STILL NEEDS HEALTH CARE AND ALL THE THINGS, I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH MEDICARE AND THOSE THINGS AND NOT WAIT, , UM, LET'S, SHOWS YOU THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS. 
          YEAH. 
          I HONESTLY, CAREFUL, HONESTLY, ON THE DEAL THAT I HAD TO DIE ON IN THIS, IF ALL WE GOT WAS HEALTHCARE, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A VERY BIG DEAL. 
          UM, IT'S NOT WHERE, IT'S NOT WHERE I WANNA STOP. 
          YEAH. 
          IT'S NOT WHERE I WANNA STOP. 
          BUT I THINK IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE CHOOSING 
          [01:05:01]
A VERY ACHIEVABLE GOALS. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          I THINK IT'S A REALLY BIG DEAL. 
          UM, BECAUSE THIS HIGH DEDUCTIBLE PLAN IS LIKE A THIRD OF MY HIGH, HIGH DEDUCTIBLE WHEN , THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, ONE OF THE REASONS I JOINED, AND, YOU KNOW, WE WERE A VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATION AT THE TIME, WAS THAT IT GAVE ME HEALTH INSURANCE. 
          I NO COMPENSATION, IES. 
          MM-HMM . 
          BUT I GOT, I GOT HEALTH INSURANCE AND THAT MEANT A LOT TO ME AS A SINGLE LIFE. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, I, I LOST THE OTHER THING I LIKE IN TERMS OF MAKING THIS SCALABLE, WHICH I THINK WE HATE TO SAY WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT, BUT REALITY, I LOVE THIS THOUGHT. 
          WOULDN'T SAY, MY GOD, I'M ONLY GIVING A DOLLAR TOWARDS THE, TOWARDS THE PAY OF THE MAYOR. 
          AND THAT'S NOTHING I'M WILLING TO GIVE WHATEVER NUMBER WE COME UP WITH, IT'S NOT TOO WILD. 
          I MEAN, I, I'M SHOCKED THAT THAT'S ALL AS A RESIDENT, THAT IT'S COSTING ME. 
          WELL, IT'S NOT COSTING YOU WELL, BUT STILL, I LIKE THE IDEA THAT IT'S KIND OF THE, THE INCONSISTENCY OF THE DATA IS YOUR WHAT YOU OUT TO EAT, WHICH DON'T, RESIDENTS DON'T PAY. 
          YEAH. 
          TAX. 
          IT'S NOT A PROPERTY TAX. 
          BUT PEOPLE THINK, OH, THE MINUTE WE TRY TO GIVE THEM MORE MONEY, PEOPLE WILL THINK, OH, THEY'RE OVERPAID. 
          THEY SHOULD DO THIS WITH PEOPLE'S OTHER HEART. 
          AND THEN YOU TURN AROUND AND SAY, WELL, THEY ARE, THIS MONEY IS, YOU'RE NOT PAYING IT. 
          AND IT'S ONLY WORTH A DOLLAR PER RESIDENT. 
          I MEAN, I JUST, I LIKE WHO WOULDN'T PAY MORE? THAT'S WHERE RU WHAT'S THE MOST POPULAR PLAN FOR A SINGLE PERSON'S COST TO THE CITY. 
          YEAH. 
          THE, LIKE I SAID, THE 1700 PLAN, BECAUSE IT'S FULLY COVERED. 
          WHAT'S THE COST OF THE CITY? UH, $854. 
          OKAY. 
          SO WE'RE LOOKING AT 10 GRAND A PERSON. 
          WE'RE, I THINK WE LIVE IN THAT PLAN FOR OUR DISCUSSION. 
          DON'T GET CHOICES, BUT YOU'LL PROBABLY HAVE ENOUGH THAT ONE WAY. 
          SO WE'RE LOOKING AT 10 GRAND PLUS 200, WHATEVER FOR THE COST OF THE CITY FOR HEALTHCARE PER PERSON. 
          SO WE'RE LOOKING AT $70,000 TOTAL, TOTAL CHANGE IN TOTAL COST TO THE CITY, WHICH AS A PERCENTAGE OF OUR BUDGET, 'CAUSE IT'S VERY, VERY 10. 
          IT FOR CLARITY ON THAT, WOULD THAT MEAN THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT THE STIPEND OR DIFFERENCES, LIKE THEY EITHER THEY CAN GET ON THE CITIES OR THEY WOULD GET A STIPEND THAT WOULD BE ADDED TO THEIR PAY FOR THAT THOUSAND OR ROUGHLY. 
          I NOT A BIG OPINION ON THE STIPEND OR NOT. 
          I THINK THAT IT'S A VERY, IF THE ACCESS TO THE GOOD HEALTHCARE IS THE ACCESS, UM, THE HSA IS, IS THE CARROT FOR THE MONEY. 
          RIGHT. 
          IF, IF YOU YEAH, THAT'S, SO IN ADDITION, THE HSA WOULD BE IN ADDITION TO YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          SO IF WE WANNA PLAY THAT GAME RATHER THAN A SITE I WOULD PLAY WITH HSA MONEY, IT'S A BENEFICIAL THING TO EVERYBODY. 
          NOT JUST, WELL, I GUESS YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE HIGH DEDUCTIBLE TO HAVE THE HS A YOU HAVE TO HAVE A QUALIFYING. 
          I I DON'T HAVE A STRONG OPINION ON THE, ON THE STIPEND. 
          I COULD BE SWAYED EITHER WAY. 
          WHAT I'M, WHAT I'M TRYING TO GO FOR IS SAY WE DO THAT, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, A $10,000 COST TO THE CITY. 
          AND IF WE PAY ALL OF OUR COUNSELORS, INCLUDING THE MAYOR, 'CAUSE LET'S BE HONEST, THE MAYOR HAS NO MORE POWER THAN THE COUNSELORS ON, IT'S THE IC TO PAY, UH, 30 GRAND, WHICH IS LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE BY A HAIR. 
          WE'RE LOOKING AT $210,000 DIVISION. 
          SO WE'RE LOOKING AT $220,000 IF WE PAY, UH, COUNCIL 30 GRAND A YEAR EACH, AND THEY ALL TAKE HEALTHCARE, WHICH THEY WON'T. 
          UM, BECAUSE NO MATTER HOW GOOD PRIVATE HEALTHCARE IS, MEDICARE WILL SUPPLEMENTAL SPEND, UM, THAT OF A PERCENTAGE OF OUR BUDGET. 
          IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NUMBERS, AGAIN, IT'S VERY, VERY CHUNKY. 
          IT'S VERY SMALL. 
          SO, UH, I WANT TO COME BACK TO HOW YOU GOT 30 ON THAT. 
          'CAUSE LIKE, I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS A 52 WEEK A YEAR JOB. 
          I DON'T, I DON'T THINK IT, I'M NOT, I'M NOT PLAYING THAT GAME. 
          I'M NOT, I'M JUST SAYING WHAT MINIMUM WAGE IS. 
          IF YOU ARE, I'M NOT, I'M NOT PLAYING THE GAME OF THIS IS A MINIMUM WAGE JOB. 
          IT'S JUST A DIFFERENT WAY OF THINKING. 
          IT, I'M NOT TREATING THIS AS AN HOURLY JOB. 
          I'M SAYING IF YOU WORK FOR MINIMUM WAGE FOR A YEAR AND NEVER TAKE A DAY OFF, THIS IS WHAT YOU, IT'S A, IT'S A BARRIER OF THE GOVERNMENT SETTING A NUMBER, WHICH IS, THIS IS HOW THEY DO THE MATH. 
          RIGHT. 
          THEY DON'T MAKE AN ASSUMPTION ON WEEKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          AND, UM, SO WE'RE JUST GOING AT IT A DIFFERENT WAY. 
          RIGHT. 
          I'M NOT ASSUMING ANYTHING ABOUT THE AVERAGE THAT I'M JUST SAYING THIS IS THE AMOUNT OF MONEY FULL TIME A YEAR. 
          SO ON A, ON A DIFFERENT, IS THAT A TAX LIABILITY FOR A COUNCIL PERSON TO RECEIVE A COMPENSATION LIKE THAT? 
          [01:10:01]
DO YOU, WOULD YOU LIKE BE GIVING 10 99? WOULD THAT AMOUNT INCLUDE, DOES THE COUNCIL NOW, CAN 10 99 SPEAK, RIGHT? WELL, YOU DO. 
          YEAH, WE DO. 
          YES. 
          SORRY. 
          CAN YOU, 10 99 SOMEONE WHO'S REQUIRED TO BE AT A MEETING. 
          I THOUGHT 10 90 NINES WOULD NEVER BE SCHEDULED. 
          WE, WE SEND A, A COMPENSATION, LIKE I SAID, AS LONG AS HEALTHCARE IS NOT EX EXORBITANT AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT PREMIUM THAT'S PAID BY YOUR EMPLOYER IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S THAT WAY. 
          IT'S YEAH. 
          PRE-TAX, THE TOTAL PRE-TAX COMPENSATION. 
          UM, BUT THE CONVERSATION, I THINK I, AT LEAST I'M INTERPRETING, SO CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, IS, IS YOUR TOTAL COMPENSATION GOING TO BE TAXED? AND THEN THE ANSWER IS NO. 
          IF TOTAL COMPENSATION INCLUDES THAT HEALTHCARE PART, OKAY. 
          IT'S ONLY THE DOLLARS THAT WE SEND TO A BANK ACCOUNT THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH THE WAGE. 
          WOULD IT BE THAT ULTIMATELY SHOW UP ON THAT? BUT IT DOES SHOW UP ON THE OTHER PARTS TO THAT. 
          THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION. 
          WE THINK W2 WW TWO EMPLOYEE YES. 
          BECAUSE IT'S SCHEDULED. 
          SO IT WOULD COST THE, UM, CITY 13% IN PAYROLL TAX. 
          YEAH. 
          THERE WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY, THERE THERE'D BE SOME PAYROLL TAX INCLUDED ON TOP OF CONVERSATION 13% OF THEIR SALARY POTENTIALLY. 
          BECAUSE WE, WE TRY TO NOT DO THAT. 
          BUT WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE NUMBER FOR SOMEONE RECEIVING SOCIAL SECURITY WHERE YOU CAN'T WORK? WELL, THERE'D BE EXAM, SO WE'D BE ALL RIGHT. 
          YEAH. 
          WE ALWAYS, WE HAVE THAT SITUATION IN A FEW THAT SITTING, BUT THAT'S THE HARDEST PART IS, BUT THEY, WE'VE ALSO TALKED ABOUT THAT THEY CAN TURN ON LIFT. 
          YEAH. 
          THEY CAN BE DONATED TO PARKS OR WHEREVER THEY, THAT WAS ALWAYS A  OF WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT IS YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY THIS, RIGHT? YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. 
          THANK YOU FOR THAT. 
          SO IN, IN YOUR, YOUR STATEMENT TO TRY TO GET TO A CONCRETE TO WORK FROM IS IT'S 30,000 WITH HEALTHCARE ACCESS IN ADDITION TO THAT. 
          RIGHT. 
          THAT'S NOT, THAT'S MY HYPOTHETICAL THAT I YEAH. 
          SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY, UH, SO WE'D BE WRITING THEM A CHECK FOR 2,500 A MONTH AND THEY WOULD'VE ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE IF THEY WANTED IT. 
          CORRECT. 
          THEY CHOSE NOT TO DO IT. 
          THEY GET 2,500 A MONTH. 
          CORRECT. 
          THAT IS MY, THAT IS MY, JUST, SO I'M TRYING TO KEEP NARROW. 
          I'M TRYING TO PUT US, I'M TRYING TO PUT US IN A NUMBER WORLD WHERE WE CAN START THIS CONVERSATION, WHICH I THINK WE'VE TOUCHED ON INTERMITTENTLY, BUT NOW WE KNOW WE DON'T HAVE DATA TO GIVE US A NUMBER. 
          UM, SO, AND THEN AGAIN, THAT'S, THAT'S WHY I STARTED AT MINIMUM WAGE. 
          IT'S JUST LIKE, HERE IS A NUMBER THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS GIVEN US. 
          LET'S START HERE. 
          UM, AND, AND I WANTED TO KNOW TOTAL COST. 
          SO WE, I SHOULD ADD 13% TO MY $220,000 FROM THE TOTAL BUDGET. 
          WELL, TOTAL COST OF THE WHOLE THING IS GONNA BE MORE THAN THAT. 
          BUT I, I DO THINK THAT YOUR CONVERSATION IS GOOD. 
          THE OTHER THING THAT I THINK COUNSEL, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, WAS LOOKING AT SOMETHING THAT WAS SUSTAINABLE, MEANING YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO DO THIS AGAIN. 
          YES. 
          SO IF YOU DID TIE IT TO A NUMERIC VALUE, THAT'S LIKE A ARIZONA MINIMUM WAGE. 
          SO IF YOU SAID IT'S 2080 TIMES MINIMUM WAGE, THAT CAN BE PUT INTO A, A DECISION THAT THEN GROWS AS DOES ARIZONA MINIMUM WAGE. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO IF YOU SAY X PLUS, THEN IT JUST DOES ITS OWN. 
          LIKE I THINK WITH THE FLAG STAFF EXAMPLE, AND I THINK IS HELPFUL TO NOT HAVING THE POLITICAL YEAH. 
          WRANGLING MAYBE AS SOON AS YOU MIGHT IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE SOME NUMERIC. 
          AND THAT, THAT'S WHY AGAIN, MINIMUM WAGE IS JUST A NUMBER THAT EXISTS FOR US. 
          AND WE ALL KNOW, AND I THINK EVERYONE WOULD AGREE, IT'S NOT, SO WE'RE NOT ARGUING A LIVABLE WAGE, WHICH I THINK IS A LOADED TERM. 
          YEAH, I KNOW. 
          IF WE CAN SELL THAT. 
          YEAH. 
          AND DON'T WE, ON THE PERFECT WORLD, THAT WOULD BE WHAT I'D ARGUE I COULDN'T INVOLVE IN THE CITY LONG ENOUGH TO NO, I'M NOT GONNA, NO. 
          TO START THE CONVERSATION. 
          NOT GONNA JUST KILL A LITTLE BIGGER, BUT I THINK, I THINK THE MINIMUM WAGE PLUS HEALTHCARE IS A, IS A REALLY BIG DEAL. 
          I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA TO PRESENT IT TO THE COUNCIL AND SEE. 
          SO I THINK MOSTLY WHAT THEY WOULD BE CONCERNED WITH WOULD BE THE NUMBERS AND HOW IT, YOU KNOW, IS GONNA AFFECT THE BUDGET. 
          BUT THAT WOULD, I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT AS, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD THE COMPENSATION FOR A COUNCIL, WHAT WOULD WE SAY IS, I DON'T WANT TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE THIS. 
          OKAY. 
          SO IF I LOOK AT YOUR PROPOSAL AS THE MAXIMUM, I'M WILLING TO CONSIDER WHAT IS THE MINIMUM I CONSIDER AT LEAST OUT OF THE BOX, EVEN IF WE SAY WE TIE IT TO MINIMUM WAGE AND IT GOES UP OR WHATEVER. 
          UM, DOES ANYBODY HAVE A FEEL FOR THAT? I, I AGREE. 
          I I, I HAVE A SUGGESTION THAT WILL GET US TO THAT. 
          I THINK IT'S ON THE SCREEN HERE. 
          UM, 
          [01:15:01]
I'M TRYING TO GIVE THE, THE VERBAL, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE PACE, THE, THE RATE OF CHANGE SINCE 2004, WE'VE HAD TWO INCREASES. 
          WE HAD 2004 AND THEN 2014, AND THEN 2022. 
          AND THEN HERE WE ARE AT 2026 USING A CONSTANT RATE OF CHANGE THAT SPENT 8% FOR COUNCIL MEMBERS. 
          AND THEN IN 2022, THEY GAVE THE MAYOR EXTRA. 
          UM, SO THE, THAT WAS 14% INCREASE. 
          AND YOU CAN LOOK AT THAT AT THE TREND LINE. 
          YOU CAN SEE THE, THE BLUE TREND LINE STARTS TO TAKE AWAY FROM THE RED TREND LINE MAYOR VERSUS COUNCIL MEMBER. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO IN 2026, HERE WE ARE AND WE'RE SAYING, OKAY, GOING FROM AN 8% INCREASE TO A 14% INCREASE, DIDN'T NET ANY NECESSARILY MEANINGFUL CHANGE IN THE DIVERSITY. 
          LET'S, LET'S UP THAT RATE OF CHANGE. 
          LET'S GO TO 29% THIS TIME, AND THAT BRINGS US TO A SALARY OF 12,343. 
          THEN YOU BOLT ON THE HEALTHCARE ONTO THAT AND THAT'S A TOTAL PACKAGE. 
          THAT'S A BASE HIT, MAYBE NOT A HOME RUN. 
          AND THEN EVERY TWO YEARS YOU JUST INCREASE THE RATE OF CHANGE UNTIL YOU GET THE OUTCOME YOU'RE DESIRING. 
          SO IN 2028, WE GO TO A 57% INCREASE, AND THAT WOULD BRING US TO 19,000 AGAIN WITH THE, ASSUMING THE HEALTH BENEFITS STAYED IN THE MIX. 
          SO NOW YOU'RE KIND OF MORE TOWARDS THAT 30,000 TARGET, WHICH IS AT 52 WEEKS AT 40 HOURS A WEEK AT $15 15 CENTS MINIMUM WAGE. 
          IT GIVES YOU THAT 31,000, EXCEPT IT'LL GO UP BY 2028. 
          WE COULD DO, WE, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS NOW BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING THAT. 
          THE LEGISLATURE JUST PASSED $18 AN HOUR. 
          THANK YOU. 
          BECAUSE I'VE BEEN MEANING TO WATCH IT. 
          AND SO DEFINITELY. 
          AND THEN CALL IT FROM THERE AS WELL. 
          YEAH. 
          BUT THAT'S THE NEW RESET THAT THE LEGISLATURE, SO THEY DO LIKE A COST OF LIVING ADJUSTMENTS. 
          SO WE DON'T, WE USED TO KNOW MINIMUM WAGE YEARS IN ADVANCE AND NOW WE DON'T BECAUSE THEY, I GUESS NOW I'VE BEEN WAITING, UM, WHICH IS REALLY FUN TO NOT KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE QUARTER. 
          , I ASSUME THE COUNCIL'S GONNA WANT OPTIONS. 
          YEAH. 
          WE COULD GIVE THESE TWO AND YOU CAN SAY, OKAY, HERE'S, HERE'S A KNOCK THE PARK BALL OUT OF THE PARK. 
          WE KNOW WE'RE GONNA GET SOME PEOPLE FOR SURE, YOU KNOW, DON'T, CAN'T GUARANTEE. 
          BUT MAN, THIS IS A BIG NUMBER. 
          BE MOTIVATED. 
          YOU KNOW THIS SURELY, SURELY THIS HAS TO BE MOTIVATED  VERSUS HERE'S AN INCREMENTAL APPROACH OVER A SERIES OF YEARS WE'RE GONNA DO HEALTHCARE. 
          NOW WE'RE GONNA DO A MODEST INCREASE NOW EVERY TWO YEARS, WE KEEP OFF IT UNTIL WE GET THE DIVERSITY. 
          THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER OPTION THAT THEY COULD HOW DOES YOU MOVE? I LIKE THE STUFF. 
          WELL, THE DIVERSITY. 
          YEAH. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO MEASURE, YEAH. 
          THE TARGET WOULD'VE TO BE A METRIC, A MEASURABLE METRIC. 
          YEAH. 
          RIGHT. 
          WELL'S, SORRY. 
          AND I WOULD ARGUE THAT THIS CURRENT COUNCIL MEETS OUR METRICS TYPE. 
          RIGHT. 
          POTENTIALLY, DEPENDING ON WHAT WE DEFINE OUR METRICS AS. 
          YEAH. 
          RIGHT, RIGHT. 
          YOU KNOW, IF WE, IF WE DON'T USE AGE AS A METRIC, BECAUSE I THINK THAT WOULD BE A PROBLEMATIC THING, THEN DOES, DOES THIS COUNCIL, RIGHT. 
          SO I THINK I, I THINK MEASURING, I LOVE DATA AND I WOULD LOVE TO LIVE IN THIS SPREADSHEET FOREVER BECAUSE IT'S VERY JUSTIFIABLE. 
          I REALLY LOVE IT A LOT. 
          UM, I ALSO LOVED WATCHING YOU CLEAN IT UP AS WE, AS WE WENT. 
          UM, BUT I THINK TYING IT TO A MEASURABLE OUTCOME IS NOT, IS NOT GONNA BE HELPFUL. 
          I LIKE THE IDEA OF TYING IT TO A NORMAL INDEX WEEKER WITHIN THE GOVERNMENT, WHETHER THAT'S MINIMUM WAGE, WHETHER THAT'S INFLATION, WHETHER THAT'S, THERE'S A BUNCH OF NUMBERS WE COULD USE. 
          UM, AND IF IF THAT LIKE 18 NUMBER MAKES PEOPLE NERVOUS, LIKE THERE'S A FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE AT 7 34 AN HOUR. 
          YEAH. 
          OH. 
          WHICH IS, LET'S PUT A MULTIPLIER ON THAT PLACE AND WELL, WE'RE JUST A SPIN UNDER THAT SIX SOMETHING NOW. 
          SO THAT'S ALMOST NOT MEANINGFUL. 
          YEAH. 
          YOU HAVE TO, YOU HAVE TO DEFINITELY LEAD TO HEALTHCARE AND THEN DO THAT. 
          SO I'M, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A BASE AND THE TALK, RIGHT. 
          WHICH I THINK IS WHAT THE CONVERSATION IS LIKE INTERNAL BASE IS LIKE HEALTHCARE. 
          LIKE IF, IF WE GET HEALTHCARE, IT'S BE, IT'S LIKE A, A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE AND IT'S BETTER THAN NOTHING. 
          THAT'S MY BASE. 
          I AGREE. 
          THAT'S MY YEP. 
          HOWEVER, IT MEANS THAT THE COUNCIL WILL EITHER, AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW THE LOGISTICS OF THIS REST, BUT THE COUNCIL WILL EITHER ONLY HAVE THE CHOICE OF THE FREE PLANS AND I GUESS THEY GET PAID 500 BUCKS. 
          THEY COULD COVER THE DEDUCTIBLE ON SOME OF IT. 
          OKAY. 
          I WITHDRAW MY THOUGHT. 
          THEY COULD COVER MOST OF IT, BUT I DON'T WOULDN IT. 
          WOULD IT BE REALISTIC TO BILL THEM IF THEY CAN'T COVER IT? RUSS, I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT IS A REALISTIC THING TO DO IF THEY WANT A HEALTHCARE PLAN FOR MORE THAN THEY WELL, LIKE WHYS WE 
          [01:20:01]
LIST DE DEDUCT FROM THE PAYCHECK? I'M SAYING YEAH. 
          WHAT IF THEY DON'T MAKE ENOUGH? YEAH. 
          THEN YOU WOULD SET UP A PAYMENT PLAN AND, AND WE HAVE THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE WE HAVE LEAVE WITHOUT PAY ON FM WORK. 
          SO THERE'S WASTED, IT JUST SOUNDS THEY WRITE CHECKS TO EVEN EMPLOYEES IN. 
          OKAY. 
          SO IT'S, IT'S A VIEWABLE, YOU HAVE A MECHANISM, IT JUST DOESN'T SOUND OKAY. 
          SO THAT THERE IS A MECHANISM THAT IT'S LIKE IF THEY WANT A MORE EXPENSIVE PLAN THAN THEY MAKE, IF THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE DOING YEAH. 
          THEY'RE MAKING RIGHT. 
          I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT MAYBE THAT'S THE BASE, MAYBE THAT'S THE AMOUNT IS WHATEVER THE BASE AMOUNT IS TO WELL, THAT'S BUY WHATEVER HEALTHCARE IS. 
          THAT'S WHY I ASKED THAT. 
          RIGHT. 
          WHICH WAS EIGHT, HE SAID BASICALLY EIGHT. 
          WELL, AND AGAIN, IF YOU'RE IN THE 5,000 PLAN, AND I WAS JUST DOING THE MATH ON THAT. 
          SO THE CITY PAYS FOR MY FAMILY, I PAY ZERO FOR THE 5,000 PLAN. 
          THAT'S ALMOST $20,000 A YEAR THE CITY PAYS. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO THAT'S, THAT IS A WHOLE NOTHER LEVEL. 
          THAT THOUSAND DOLLARS A MONTH AND YOUR RANGE IS ALL IN THERE. 
          RIGHT. 
          I WOULD ARGUE THAT THAT'S YOUR RANGE, JUST TO GIVE YOU HOW MUCH THE CITY PAYS ON THAT END. 
          IT ACTUALLY PAYS LESS BECAUSE THE CONTRIBUTIONS WHEN YOU PICK A DIFFERENT PLAN. 
          RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT. 
          GOING FORWARD. 
          SO THAT HELPS MAYBE GIVE YOU A RANGE. 
          YEAH. 
          VERY COMPLEX IN THAT SENSE. 
          BUT TRYING TO SIMPLIFY THE NUMBERS TO GIVE YOU SOME RANGE TO WORK ON. 
          WE HAVE A MANAGEMENT, A DIFFERENT, UH, MANAGEMENT HEALTHCARE COST OPTIONS THAN YOU DO FOR, 'CAUSE I KNOW I CAN SPLIT MY MANAGEMENT OUT AND I GIVE MORE TO MY MANAGER'S HEALTHCARE THAN I DO TO MY EMPLOYEES. 
          WE DO NOT. 
          OKAY. 
          YOU QUALIFY. 
          THESE ARE THE PLANS. 
          YEAH, WE DO HAVE A GRANDFATHER SITUATION ON A PLAN. 
          WE HAVE A COUPLE OF PEOPLE, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, THE DIFFERENTIAL IS NEW PLANES, NEW COST NEW SET UP. 
          SO, OH GOSH, I THINK WE GOT SOMEWHERE. 
          HEY APRIL, I STARTED OVER HEALTHCARE, BUT WHAT IS IT? 18? IT WILL BE 18, I THINK WE'RE GONNA CORRECT NEXT. 
          AND IT'S EFFECTIVE BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT GONNA START THIS BUILDING. 
          SO I'M GONNA DO THE NEW, OR YOU CAN DO THE NEW MATH. 
          YOU DO THE MATH, YOU'VE GOT IT. 
          NAME THAT MINIMUM WAGE NUMBER 8, 18, 30 SECOND NEXT, NEXT YEAR. 
          JANUARY ONE. 
          JANUARY. 
          I THINK YOU'RE GONNA GIVE SOME PUSH BACK IN THE COMMUNITY. 
          52 WEEKS, 40 HOURS. 
          AGAIN, I'M NOT JUSTIFYING THE WEEKS AND HOURS IN MY SCENARIO, I'M NOT EVEN BRINGING IT UP. 
          I'M JUST SAYING MINIMUM WAGE IS THIS MUCH A YEAR. 
          AND THEN THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. 
          THAT'S THE NUMBER THAT IT'S TIED TO. 
          AND YOU TOOK IT TIMES TO 20 HOURS WHEN YOU CAME UP WITH THE NUMBER 40. 
          40. 
          I DID. 
          BECAUSE THE, AGAIN, I'M NOT, I'M NOT JUSTIFYING THAT WE PAY THEM THIS HOURLY WAGE THAT IS WAGE, THAT IS NOT MY JUSTIFICATION. 
          MY JUSTIFICATION IS I CAME TO A NUMBER THAT IS MEASURABLE FROM BASED OFF THOSE. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          AGAIN, I'M NOT ARGUING THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE WORKING THIS MUCH. 
          I'M NOT ARGUING THAT THEY'RE, WE NEED TO PAY THEM HOURLY. 
          I'M JUST ARGUING THAT THIS IS THE NUMBER THAT YOU GET WHEN YOU MULTIPLY THESE THINGS, WHICH IS WHAT THE GOVERNMENT DOES. 
          THAT IS ALL, UM, TO A NUMBER THAT I FEEL LIKE FEELS GOOD PERSONALLY NOT AWESOME. 
          COULD YOU, YOUR CALL HAD BEEN, THAT'S THE PAY NUMBER AND THEN YOU GET ACCESS TO PAY IN FOR HEALTHCARE. 
          IF YOU WANTED TO BUY INTO ONE OF THE SIX, WELL THAT'S FREE. 
          MOST OF THEM. 
          YEAH. 
          ON AN INDIVIDUAL. 
          EVEN IF THEY WANTED TO PAY FOR THE MORE EXPENSIVE ONE, THEY COULD DO THAT. 
          RIGHT. 
          I, WHAT I'VE LEARNED TODAY IS CITY HAS REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, I ARGUE THAT ALL THE TIME AND SOME PEOPLE DON'T ON REALLY GENEROUS, I THINK THE ANSWER IS YES. 
          I'M ACTUALLY ON THE BOARD THAT WE, I REPRESENT, WE HAVE A LARGER GROUP IN FACT, AND THAT'S TO THE ARGUMENT. 
          WE HAVE MESA SCOTTSDALE SCHOOL DISTRICT. 
          SO WE'VE GOT LIKE 25,000 EMPLOYEES THAT LEVERAGE FOR THAT PURPOSE. 
          YOU KNOW, I WANT MY COMPANY TO ATTACK IT. 
          I DON'T WANT, I JUST WANT MY COMPANY TO, AND LAURA WILL TELL YOU, THE FIRE FOLKS LEFT BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T THINK IT WAS AS GOOD AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN. 
          SO IT'S A RELATIVE CONVERSATION. 
          I WILL SAY THAT. 
          BUT YEAH, THE FIRE LEFT AND WENT WITH THE FIREFIGHTER PLAN THAT'S SET UP. 
          THEY LEFT THE GROUP A COUPLE YEARS AGO BECAUSE THERE'S A BETTER FIREFIGHTER GROUP. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO, BUT I'M PART OF A CO-OP. 
          YEAH. 
          I THINK IT'S PRETTY EXCELLENT. 
          I ARGUE THAT IN EVERY CONVERSATION TRYING TO GET SOMEBODY TO JOIN IN, BUT IT'S COMPARABLE TO OUR SYSTEM. 
          SHADY, DID YOU COME UP WITH A NUMBER? IF WE'RE UP AT $18 AN HOUR? 37. 
          30 37. 
          FOUR 40 IS 18 AT MY AND WHAT'S THE 18 NUMBER? MINIMUM WAGE? JANUARY ONE FOR ARIZONA. 
          ALL OF THE, IN THE WHOLE STATE. 
          THAT'S THE STATE MINIMUM WAGE. 
          I'M ASSUMING TIPPED WILL BE 17. 
          SO PLACES LIKE FLAGSTAFF DO BETTER THAN THAT. 
          THEY, YOU, WE DON'T WANT TO. 
          YES. 
          WE DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT FLAGSTAFF MINIMUM WAGE. 
          THEY HAVE THEMSELVES. 
          REALLY? WHY? BECAUSE THEY DID, THEY 
          [01:25:01]
PASSED A HIGH MINIMUM WAGE FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A RESTAURANT OWNER. 
          THEY, UH, THEY PASSED A HIGHER MINIMUM WAGE LIKE FOUR OR FIVE YEARS AGO. 
          SO THEY'VE BEEN, AND THEN THEY MADE IT THAT, I THINK IT'S $2 OVER WHATEVER THE STATE SET. 
          SO THEY DID AN EARLY ADJUSTMENT AND THEN THE STATE IS STARTING TO CATCH UP. 
          OKAY. 
          AND SO THEIR MINIMUM WAGE IS REALLY HIGH. 
          UM, AND IT HAS BEEN NOW FOR FIVE YEARS. 
          AND I KNOW SOMEONE WHO ADVOCATED FOR IT, WHO OWNS A BUSINESS AND NOW IS, HAS THE STATE MINIMUM WAGE. 
          SO THEIR, THEY HAVE THEIR MINIMUM FLAG STOP WAGE HAS AN ADDITION ON THE STATE'S MINIMUM WAGE AFTER THEY DID THEIR FINISH LOAN. 
          I LIKE ALL THIS, BUT I FEEL WE CAN'T RUN THIS 40 HOURS A WEEK WHEN EVERYBODY I INTERVIEWED SAID IT WAS 20 AGAIN. 
          I KNOW. 
          SO YOU HAVE TO DO, YOU HAVE TO DO A 12 TIMES INCREASE, 171% INCREASE, GET TO 26,000. 
          IT'S GONNA BE A BIG NUMBER. 
          COUNCIL WON'T DO IT. 
          THEY'LL PICK A NUMBER LOWER THAN THAT, BUT YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT I THINK THIS IS THE SCENARIO WHERE WE PRESENT THE BEST POSSIBLE AND FOLLOWABLE LOFT AND KNOWING IT'S GOING DOWN , I THINK I REALLY DO. 
          THERE'S A REASON I'M PLAYING IN, I WOULD LOVE TO BE PLAYING IN THE SIXTIES, BUT IF THERE'S A REASON I'M PLAYING IN THE THIRTIES WITH A NUMBER THAT WE CAN SAY HOW WE GOT THERE IS BECAUSE I KNOW THAT WHATEVER WE SAY, IT'S GOING TO BE LESS THAT'S REALISTIC TO THINK ABOUT. 
          AND, BUT IF WE GIVE THEM THE IDEA OF ATTACHING IT TO A NUMBER LIKE MINIMUM WAGE, WELL WE COULD POTENTIALLY THEN GIVE THEM A WAY OF INCREASING IT. 
          WHAT IS IT? 20 HOURS A WEEK? HALF THAT. 
          18,000 OF 18. 
          YEAH. 
          I CHANGE THAT TO, ITS NOT A FEEL GOOD NUMBER. 
          MM-HMM . 
          BUT IT'S . 
          BUT I MEAN, I THINK THE HEALTHCARE IS A, IS A BIG, IS A BIG THING TO ME. 
          THE WAY LIKE THE SELL IS IS THAT LIKE AS A COUNSELOR, THEORETICAL, THEORETICALLY, UH, YOUR JOB IS TO CARE AND BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS TOWN. 
          AND HE PAYERS IN THE MODERN WORLD IS ALMOST THE BARE MINIMUM TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE PEOPLE. 
          AND IT'S, IT'S NOT RELATED TO THE DOLLAR NECESSARILY. 
          IT IS, BUT BUT JUST EVEN JUST THE ACCESS DOES THAT HUMAN MATTER LOT. 
          RIGHT. 
          THE ABILITY TO BUY INTO A PLAN, EVEN THE COST. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, THAT'S WHY I THINK THAT'S EASIEST TO SELL. 
          AND IT'S THE ONE REASON I DON'T LIKE THE STIPEND JUST QUITE AS MUCH IS THAT IT, IT GOES AGAINST THAT NARRATIVE. 
          THAT STIPEND IN SOME WAY FEELS LIKE IT'S THE EXTRA CASH ONE WAY VERSUS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE OPENING THIS UP TO YOU AS A YEP. 
          TO HELP. 
          YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY IN, BUT YOU CAN IF YOU WANT. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          SO LET'S PLAY AT THE $17,000 MARK. 
          YES. 
          THEN I ALSO WANNA BRING UP OTHER BENEFITS THAT CITY EMPLOYEES HAVE. 
          RIGHT. 
          ACCESS. 
          AND YOU GUYS RUN ON 4 1 3 B OR THERE'S THERE GOVERNMENT ONE? YEAH, SO I'M REALLY AGAINST ANY KIND OF RETIREMENT. 
          THIS ISN'T THE RETIREMENT JOB, IT'S NOT A CAREER. 
          IT'S A, A RETIREMENT CALCULATION IS JUST KIND OF OFF THE TABLE FOR ME. 
          IT'S JUST, YEAH. 
          WHAT, BUT WHAT, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS WHAT ARE THE OTHER BENEFITS YOU SELL DURING YEAH, SO IT'S 12%, BUT THE EMPLOYEE PAY 12 PER PERCENT. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          SO THAT'S STATE RETIREMENT. 
          WHAT WE DO AT 4 57 DOESN'T EXIST. 
          WE DON'T CURRENTLY MATCH ANY FOUR 50 SEVENS. 
          BUT IF YOU AS AN EMPLOYEE WANT TO CONTRIBUTE, WE DO DO PAYROLL DEDUCTION FOR 4 57. 
          THEY CAN CONTRIBUTE. 
          YEAH. 
          THEY, THEY DO HAVE A COUPLE OPTIONS THAT WAY, BUT THERE'S NO CITY MATCH. 
          I'M ASKING WHAT ACCESS OTHER THINGS THAT THEY OH, ABSOLUTELY. 
          THEY WOULD, THEY COULD ACCESS. 
          AND THEN WHAT ELSE DO YOU SELL WHEN YOU'RE GETTING ONE EMPLOYEE OF WORK HERE? YOU SELL HEALTHCARE BECAUSE YOU SELL VACATION PLAN, VACATION FREE LUNCHES AND HOLIDAY PLAN. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          THE VACATION AS, AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. 
          YEAH. 
          WE HAVE ONE YEAR ACCELERATED. 
          SO NORMALLY WHEN YOU AT FIVE YEARS YOU GET AN ADDITIONAL, HERE WE DO FOUR. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND INSTEAD OF NINE WE OR 10 WE DO NINE. 
          SO WE TRY TO ACCELERATE THAT TIMELINE. 
          BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA OFFER PTO. 
          RIGHT. 
          DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU CARE? WELL, YEAH, THE, YOU KNOW, DEPENDS ON THE JOB, BUT A HYBRID OPPORTUNITY FOR SOME OF THE JOBS. 
          RIGHT. 
          THAT'S NOT A, BECAUSE WE KNOW WHERE WE'RE AT WITH THE GENERAL, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, THAT DOESN'T CONNECT WITH THIS EITHER. 
          UM, IT REALLY IS ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT THEY KNOW THAT THERE IS THE AFFORDABILITY OF HOUSING WITHIN THE AREA. 
          'CAUSE PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE AREA DON'T, AND IT'S HARD 'CAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW THE AREA. 
          BUT I ALWAYS TELL 'EM, ESPECIALLY IN THE VALLEY, I SAID, HOW LONG IS YOUR COMMUTE? AND THEY GO, WELL, YEAH, I, RIGHT NEXT DOOR AND IT'S 30 MINUTES. 
          THEY SAID THE LONGEST GENERAL COMMUTE YEAR FOR MOST HOUSING IS 35 TO 45. 
          RIGHT. 
          IF YOU LIVE ON THE X, YOU KNOW, EVEN IN FLAGSTAFF, YOU KNOW, 45 MINUTES. 
          SO WE TALK ABOUT THE COMMUTE AS BEING A, A VALUE THAT YOU CAN GET AFFORDABILITY WITHOUT A DIFFICULT COMMUTE. 
          THERE IS RARE DIFFICULT COMMUTE. 
          SO I SELL THAT 
          [01:30:01]
IN THAT. 
          SO THAT'S HARD TO ARGUE. 
          BUT IT DOES SPEAK TO THE DISCUSSION I MET EARLIER ABOUT HOW MUCH MORE IT TAKES TO LIVE IN THE CITY OF SEDONA, WHICH IS WHAT IT TAKES TO BE ON THE COUNCIL VERSUS THOSE THAT I TRY TO SELL. 
          THERE ARE OTHER OPPORTUNITIES TO NOT NECESSARILY HAVE TO LIVE IN THE CITY AT THE WAGE. 
          YEAH. 
          THE LIFE INSURANCE IS, UH, 50 DISABILITY IS, IS UH, AFTER SIX MONTHS YOU QUALIFY FOR SHORT TERM. 
          THE DISABILITY IS COVERED IN THE RETIREMENT, FULL DISABILITY LONG TERM. 
          SO THAT DOESN'T APPLY DIRECTLY. 
          IT'D BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF SHORT TERM WOULD APPLY TO OUR ABILITY TO GET THAT INSURANCE TO COVER A UNDER FULL-TIME EMPLOYEE. 
          THAT'S NOT OUR CURRENT POLICY. 
          BUT I MEAN, THE THING IS, WE COULD CALL THIS, I MEAN, FROM AN HR PERSPECTIVE, WE COULD CALL THIS A FULL-TIME EMPLOYEE YEAH. 
          AND PAY THEM. 
          WE'RE ESSENTIALLY PAYING US. 
          YEAH. 
          EVEN THE HEALTHCARE, YOU'RE YEAH, BECAUSE OUR, OUR POLICY IS OVER 30 HOURS IS WHAT IT REQUIRES TO GET INTO THAT SYSTEM IN POLICY NOW. 
          BUT SO THAT'S POLICY THAT OH, THERE IS A RELATIVE. 
          YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. 
          THAT'S THE ACCESS POINT. 
          30 HOURS. 
          HE JUST DID IT. 
          HE JUST DID THE MATH. 
          SO, SO, UH, OLD MINIMUM WAGE 21 NEWS 25. 
          THIS FEELS LIKE SOMEWHERE I CAN LIVE. 
          YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. 
          I LIKE, I LIKE LIVING HERE, WHICH IS, WHICH WAS WHERE MY NUMBER IS. 
          YEAH. 
          MY NUMBER WAS 25. 
          BUT THAT'S A COMBINATION OF POLITICAL FEASIBILITY AND A NUMBER THAT I WOULD STAND IN FRONT OF AND THINKING ABOUT FLAGSTAFF AND YOU KNOW, WHERE TO START ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS. 
          MY NUMBER WAS 25. 
          SO 25 PAYING FULL SHARE FOR THE HEALTHCARE BENEFIT IF YOU WANTED IT FOR 25 PLUS. 
          I, I'M OKAY WITH THROWING IN ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE AS JUST ANOTHER LITTLE THING BECAUSE WE ARE UNDER WAY UNDER LIVABILITY. 
          ANY, YOU KNOW, ANYTHING ELSE. 
          YEAH. 
          IT THE EASIEST THING TO SELL EITHER WAY. 
          I DO THINK IT'S THE QUESTION OF IF WE'RE STILL NOT, IF THIS RECOGNITION GOING APPROPRIATE US  ELECTION CYCLE, IF THAT IS THAT MAYBE WHO WERE AND SAY THAT THE HEALTHCARE BE MORE IMMEDIATE. 
          I AGREE. 
          AND, AND THAT WAY THAT'S THAT'S A LITTLE, YEAH, THAT'S AN INTERESTING RECOMMENDATION. 
          A LITTLE ENTRY. 
          AND, AND THEN BECAUSE THAT, 'CAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT SEEMS SELF-SERVING. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND THAT'S REALLY WHY WE WANTED TO DELAY IT. 
          OR I LEAST I WANTED TO DELAY IT. 
          THE NEXT ELECTION CYCLE IS SO IT DOESN'T SEEM SELF-SERVING. 
          YEAH. 
          ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE, ALL THAT. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          YES. 
          SELF BENEFITTING. 
          BUT IT'S SELFSERVING IT'S LIKE MORE LIKE A HAPPY . 
          SO WE'RE, WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT ADDING A WEEK HERE BECAUSE THE BASE PTOS 49 WEEKS, THREE WEEKS. 
          PTO WHAT? THAT'S THE VACATION APPROVAL FOR A DEPARTMENT HEAD OR YEAH, BUT THEY STILL PAY. 
          MOST EMPLOYEES ARE TOO. 
          BUT THE THING IS THEY STILL PAY, THE CITY IS PAYING 50 WITH PTF. 
          THEY'RE NOT PAYING 49 PEOPLE ARE TAKING THREE WEEKS. 
          UNPAID. 
          THAT'S A GOOD POINT. 
          YEAH. 
          THE COST IS 50. 
          THAT, I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY WHY WE'RE ALL, I THINK I, I THINK ABOUT YEARS AND 52. 
          'CAUSE IT DOES NOT MATTER WHEN MY SALARY PEOPLE LEAVE, MY PAYROLL DOES NOT CHANGE. 
          RIGHT. 
          I THINK THAT MIGHT BE WHY MY BRAIN IS HAVING SUCH A HARD TIME  TALKING ABOUT LESS WEEK RIGHT NOW. 
          WELL, THERE'S THE PART-TIME NATURE OF IT, BUT YOU GET THAT 30 HOURS A WEEK. 
          YEAH. 
          TAKES, GOTTA GO 52. 
          SO IT'S, IT, IT'S MORE LIKE 28 . 
          I THINK IF HEALTHCARE IS OUR ANCHOR, THAT MIDDLE COLUMN BECOMES THE DISCUSSION. 
          AND YOU CAN PLAY WITH THE MINIMUM WAGE TOO. 
          WE DON'T HAVE TO AIM AT MINIMUM WAGE. 
          THAT'S A GOOD ANCHOR. 
          IT ISN'T OUR NUMBER, IT'S JUST WHAT THE STAKE IS, IS THE INTENT WITH THAT NUMBER TO BE ABLE TO USE THAT TO KEEP MOVING FORWARD WITH IT. 
          SO WHATEVER VERSION OF THE FINAL DECISION, THAT WOULD BE THE, AND AND FOR COST OF LIVING ADJUSTMENTS THAT ARE MADE, IF THEY START TO GET A LITTLE AH, ABOUT THAT NUMBER, YOU COULD SUGGEST, OKAY, MINIMUM WAGE MINUS TWO. 
          WELL WE TALKED ABOUT THE MAGISTRATE. 
          YOU COULD STILL CLICK INTO THAT. 
          OH, IT'S, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE MAGISTRATE AND NUMBER AT ONE POINT. 
          AND THE REASON THAT I, I KIND OF BRIT AT THE MINIMUM WAGE IS THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE GONNA WIN THE GO, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CONGRESS, THE STATE SENATE LEGISLATURE AT SOME POINT AND THEY'RE GONNA DOUBLE THE MINIMUM WAGE. 
          AND NOW WE'VE PEGGED TO THIS THING THAT'S NUTTY. 
          NO ONE'S DOUBLE 18. 
          NO, NO. 
          YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? IT, IT CAN GO UP BY, BY, THIS IS THE ARIZONA. 
          YEAH, THIS IS THE, THIS IS DIFFERENT. 
          THIS IS, AND ALSO I WOULD, SINCE I OPENED MY COMPANY EIGHT YEARS AGO, IT HAS DONE ALMOST NOW THAT IT'S 18, IT DUMP, IT PROBABLY HAS, I'M JUST SAYING THAT IT'S A NUMBER WITHIN THE CONTROL OF THE CITY ALONE. 
          'CAUSE THE CITY SETS MAGISTRATE AND SO YOU DON'T HAVE OUTSIDE HANDS SETTING A MINIMUM LABOR 
          [01:35:01]
RATE THAT YOU MIGHT NOT APPRECIATE SOMETHING. 
          SO YOU'D LIKE A BETTER TIME TO COST OF LIVING OR INFLATION OR SOMETHING. 
          SOME PERCENTAGE OF THE MAGISTRATE SALARY. 
          HOW OFTEN IS THAT UPDATED? IT FEELS VERY ASSET. 
          IT FEELS VERY LIKE, LIKE UNRELATABLE TO THE, TO THE COMMON PEOPLE. 
          LIKE IT'S A, IT IS A VERY, IT'S PROBABLY A GREAT NUMBER. 
          SO UNRELATABLE TOO. 
          EVERYONE CAN THINK ABOUT HOW MUCH MAKE TOO COMPLICATED. 
          THEY MAKE PROS AND CONS OF DOING, YOU KNOW, I WOULD, I WOULD RATHER, WE IN SAN JOSE, WE TOOK IT OUT OF OUR HANDS AND WE MADE IT THE, THE AVERAGE OF THE COUNTY. 
          WHAT WHATEVER THE COUNTY JUDGE IT'S GOT, I'D SAY MOST PEOPLE WOULDN'T KNOW THERE WASN'T HAPPENING IN THE DISTRICT. 
          AND YOU, ANOTHER JUDGE, AGAIN, IF WE WANNA ADJUST THIS NUMBER, IF WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT MINIMUM WAGE ONE, WE CAN MAKE IT LIKE FLAG STEP DOES. 
          THEY REVISIT OVER BLANK AMOUNTS OF TIME, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY. 
          UM, AND YOU CAN JUST LIKE PUT, YOU CAN PUT MORE MATH TO IT. 
          IT COULD, WE COULD ADD MATH, WE COULD DO LIKE MINIMUM WAGE MINUS AND INFLATION, YOU KNOW, LIKE WHATEVER. 
          BUT A LOT OF TIME GETS SPENT ON MINIMUM WAGE. 
          YEAH. 
          AND IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WANTING THIS TO BE LIVABLE AT SOME POINT, THAT IS THE NUMBER THAT IS GOING TO CHASE LIVABILITY. 
          YEAH. 
          EVEN IF IT DOUBLES. 
          YEAH. 
          LIKE THAT'S WHAT'S, IF IT DOUBLES, THEN IT'S, THEN IT, THERE'S, THERE'S SOMETHING GOING ON IN THE STATE AND IT NEEDS TO DOUBLE. 
          RIGHT. 
           THE STATE NUMBER'S NOT GONNA RUN AWAY. 
          WHERE'S THE FALLBACK NUMBER? IF THE COUNCIL, THEY DECIDE THEY STOP PAYING. 
          WHAT DO YOU SAY SUB? WE JUST HAVE TO HAVE A HIP SLIDE. 
          YEAH, YOU SUBTRACT THEM, YOU SAY IT'S, IT'S MINIMUM WAGE MINUS PERCENT. 
          WHAT I LIKE ABOUT IT AT MINIMUM, AND THE HEALTH FAIR IS LIKE, IT FEELS LIKE IT'S REALLY TRYING TO DO, LIKE THIS IS THE BARE MINIMUM WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH. 
          AND WE'RE NOT ASKING A LOT. 
          WE'RE ASKING FOR LITERALLY JUST MINIMUM WAGE 30 HOURS POTENTIALLY WITH ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE AND YEAH. 
          AND IT'S, IT'S JUST, IT'S NOT SELLING IT AS WE'RE GONNA DO THE GRAND SEDONA EXPERIMENT AND PAY OUR COUNSELORS $6 MILLION A YEAR. 
          WE'RE NOT LIKE WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE APPROACH WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO, WE THINK WE HAVE INTENTION WITH THIS, BUT THE REALITY BEING THAT WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO SELL THE BARE MINIMUM OF WHAT WE, WE COULD CALL PROGRESS AND LEGITIMATE PROGRESS THAT CHANGED THE EQUATION. 
          WE'VE JUST ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE PROBABLY CHANGES THE EQUATION FOR A FEW PEOPLE. 
          OR, YOU KNOW, HELPS WHO THERE AND WE'LL GIVE, IF WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU DON'T NORMALLY KNOW WAGE UNTIL FIVE MINUTES BEFORE YOU HAVE TO START PAYING IT. 
          NOW WE COULD RUN THE PREVIOUS YEARS LIKE THIS, THIS SALARY'S ACTUALLY AT THE 1550 IN 2026. 
          AND THEN IT SAID 18, 20 20. 
          LIKE A, A YEAR PRIOR. 
          OH, THAT'S INTERESTING. 
          BECAUSE THEN, THEN YOU, IF YOU'RE WORRIED, IF ANYONE'S WORRIED ABOUT THE DOUBLING, YOU HAVE A YEAR'S NOTICE OF THE DOUBLING AND WE CAN, AND AND WITHIN THAT YEAR YOU CAN CHANGE THE RULES . 
          YEAH. 
          RATHER THAN LIKE, BECAUSE I, I REALLY HAVEN'T BEEN PAYING ATTENTION, BUT EVERY TIME I'VE LOOKED FOR MINIMUM WAGE THIS YEAR TO FIGURE OUT MY BUDGET FOR NEXT YEAR, IT'S BEEN LIKE, WE'LL TELL YOU WHAT WE'LL TELL YOU. 
          AND LIKE, THEY DIDN'T EVEN GIVE ME A DATE BECAUSE LIKE TELLING UM, SO YOU MAKE IT THE YEAH, YOU MAKE IT THE PREVIOUS MINIMUM WAGES AS OF THE CALENDAR YEAR PRIOR. 
          THE CALENDAR YEAR PRIOR OR YEAH, IT WOULD ALSO, IT WOULD EASE THAT FOR, FOR SEDONA AND GOVERNMENTS, IT COULD BE JUNE, THE END OF JUNE YEAR BASED ON ITS FISCAL YEAR. 
          FISCAL YEAR, YEAH. 
          AS YOU'RE PREPARING A BUDGET FOR THAT CALENDAR YEAR, YOU HAVE THAT INFORMATION 'CAUSE IT'S IN PLAY RIGHT. 
          THEN I THINK THAT'S ACTUALLY MAYBE SMARTER. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          TO LIKE WHEN, BUT THEN IT GIVES PEOPLE TIME. 
          SO THEN YOU COULD, THE COUNCIL COULD CHANGE THE RULES BEFORE THAT YEAR ELAPSES IF SOMETHING CRAZY HAPPENED AND COULDN'T AFFORD IT. 
          THE ANNUAL EARNINGS IN ARIZONA IS 67,000. 
          SO AT 23 YOU'RE, YOU'RE KIND OF A THIRD OF THAT AND YOU CAN ANCHOR THAT NUMBER THAT WAY. 
          OKAY. 
          SO YOU'RE, I I'M JUST CONVERSATIONS I HAD WITH ROB ABOUT YOU, THE SERVICE ORIENTATION ANYWHERE CLOSE TO SOMETHING LOVABLE, JUST COMPLETELY UNFATHOMABLE THAT SAYING A THIRD OF WHAT? IT'S ONLY A THIRD. 
          ONLY THIRD. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          IT'S STILL, WE'RE BASING OFF MINIMUM WAGE WHATEVER THE YEAR PRIOR, JUNE 30TH, WHATEVER. 
          AND ACCESS HEALTHCARE. 
          AND BY THE WAY, IT'S ONLY A THIRD OF, YEAH, IT'S A BIG JUMP FROM WHAT CURRENT, BUT IT'S ONLY STILL A 30. 
          UM, YOU HAVE  YOU, IF WE CALL COMPENSATION, IF WE CALL HEALTHCARE 10,000 PER SAY 70 GRADE IN TOTAL, PLUS THAT 28 NUMBER TIMES 
          [01:40:01]
SEVEN. 
          WHAT'S OUR TOTAL COST OF THE PROJECT? UH, 13%. 
          OKAY. 
          WE FEEL LIKE SUMMER HERE, PLUS THE COST TO THE CITY. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THE, THEN WHAT ELSE ARE WE ADDING? 70 IS A ROUND NUMBER FOR HEALTHCARE. 
          70 K FOR ALL OF THEM. 
          SO 10, 10 K EACH. 
          OKAY. 
          DO YOU WANT ME TO DO IT THAT WAY? IT'S UP TO YOU. 
          IS THE MAYOR STILL BE LITTLE FOLLOW OR WE JUST NOT INCLUDED THAT AT THE MOMENT? I HAVE NO STRONG OPINIONS ON THE HONORIFIC. 
          SO THE DEMANDS ON THE MAYOR, PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY LOOK JUST WANT, THEY WANT THE MAYOR TO COME TO THE RIVER COUNTY. 
          THEY WANNA WRITE THE LETTER TO THE MAYOR AND IT'S JUST THAT, THAT, BUT I THINK THAT YEAH, OR JUST A LIKE A PERCENT PERCENTAGE. 
          YEAH, LIKE A 5% OR 7% WHATEVER PERCENTAGE. 
          WELL, WHAT IS IT NOW? WHAT'S THE PERCENT NOW BETWEEN THE MAYOR AND THE COUNCIL? WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE 6, 605. 
          800. 
          500. 
          YEAH. 
          HUNDRED SIGNIFICANT. 
          IT'S SIGNIFICANT, RIGHT? 52 50. 
          SO GIMME THE PERCENTAGE. 
          WHAT IS IT, WHAT IS THE PERCENT MORE WE PAID IN THERE? UM, SO IT'S, IT'S, YEAH. 
          45 FIRST NAME. 
          THIS IS A LOT. 
          45. 
          IT'S A BIG, A BIG, IT'S A BIG PERCENTAGE. 
          SO GOING FROM THE 30 TO THE 40 IS ONLY 25%. 
          YEAH. 
          FOR THE MAYOR. 
          SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DIFFERENT 30. 
          SO IS IT A DOLLAR? IS IT A DOLLAR? I THINK WE CAN STILL USE A PERCENTAGE. 
          WE JUST DON'T USE THAT ONE YET. 
          , IS IT 10%? IS IT 20%? WHAT'S, WHAT'S, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE TIME PERCENTAGE IS DIFFERENCE? HOW MANY MORE HOURS A WEEK? REALITY? YEAH. 
          WELL LET'S, LET'S PLAY THAT GAME AGAIN. 
          IF, IF 25 HOURS IS WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT. 
          IS IT 30 BECAUSE IT 35 THERE. 
          YEAH. 
          SO WE THINK WE MAKE IT, WHAT, WHAT IS THE ON WHAT IS THE, I FEEL LIKE 10% IS MY VIBE KNOW PERCENT THE NUMBERS GO UP BIGGER. 
          IS IT JUST 500 BUCKS EXTRA OR YOU KNOW, 200 BUCKS EXTRA OR WHATEVER. 
          WHAT, WHAT THE NUMBER RIGHT NOW IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FIVE 50 AND WHAT IS AMERICAN PAY EIGHT. 
          SO THE NUMBER IS TWO 50 RIGHT NOW. 
          IS THAT A GOOD NUMBER? SURE. 
          , I MEAN I, I BUT YOU KNOW, BUT IS THE NUMBER GROWS THAT NUMBER IS LESS AND LESS. 
          SO MAYBE A PERCENT IS WHAT, WHAT PERCENT ARE WE INCREASING? YEAH, THE NUMBER AND THEN THAT'S THE NUMBER. 
          MAYBE THAT'S, SO THE PERCENTAGE IS THE NUMBER BECOMES THE DIFFERENCE IN WHAT THAT NEW PERCENTAGE WOULD BE. 
          SO IF YOU'RE AT HOW MUCH DIFFERENCE? 23 THEN FIVE 50. 
          AND WE DO THE SAME WITH THE OTHERS. 
          TO MAKE SURE THE DIFFERENTIAL IS ROUGHLY EQUIVALENT TO THE CHANGE. 
          IT SOLVED 45% THEN WHAT YOU YEAH, YOU'RE BACK TO THE SAME MATH GAME. 
          YOU'RE BACK TO THE SAME MATH GAME. 
          10%  MY BOTTOM 10%. 
          AND THE REASON I SAY 10% IS 'CAUSE WHEN THEY'RE SEATED ON THE BENCH THERE, THERE MAY BE MORE DEMAND, BUT THERE IS NO  JOB. 
          RIGHT. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND IF THIS PEOPLE WANT THE MAYOR TO GO TO THOSE THINGS. 
          BUT SOMETIMES THE MAYOR CAN SAY, YOU KNOW, TAKE THE YES, HE IS GOING . 
          YEP. 
          MAYOR'S JOB IS TO ASSIGN WHO GOES TO THE RIBBON CABINET. 
          SOMEONE ELSE GO. 
          THAT'S RIGHT. 
          SO LIKE ULTIMATELY ON BENCH. 
          SAME. 
          SAME. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          I THINK THAT'S, RUNNING A MEETING ISN'T A JOKE THOUGH. 
          LIKE NOT RUNNING A MEETING ISN'T SO LIKE A PERCENTAGE FOR LIKE RUNNING A GOOD MEETING ISN'T A BAD THING. 
          BUT I DON'T KNOW. 
          MY VIBE IS 10. 
          I MEAN I THINK THAT LIKE FROM THE PUBLIC'S PERSPECTIVE, IF, IF YOU'RE TO PUT, SAY AS A SINGLE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CITY OF SEDONA, YOU'RE GONNA SAY IT'S THE MAYOR. 
          LIKE WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S TRUE OR NOT, RIGHT? THAT'S, IT'S AN HONOR EFFECT. 
          BUT LIKE THAT, THAT'S WHAT WE CALL A PRESIDENT. 
          RIGHT? YOU'RE THE SINGLE PERSON MOST RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS COUNTRY. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT THEY HAVE THAT'S THEY HAVE POWER. 
          AND THAT WOULD GET YEAH, THAT WOULD GET ARGUED DIFFERENTLY. 
          WE ARGUE THAT DIFFERENTLY. 
          BUT THERE IS A, THERE'S A PERCEPTION. 
          THERE'S A PERCEPTION. 
          YOU KNOW, THEY DO HAVE TO SIGN THINGS, THINGS. 
          WHAT ARE WE 10 IN THE SCHEME HERE? WHAT ARE WE OFFERING COUNCIL MEMBERS VERSUS THE MAYOR WHO WE ALREADY DECIDED PUTS IN MORE HOURS? YEAH, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE NOT THE SAME. 
          RIGHT? YEAH. 
          THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. 
          AND IS WHAT PERCENTAGE SHOULD WE, WHAT PERCENT SHOULD WE BE OFFERING THE MAYOR AND I I I'M WILLING TO SAY 
          [01:45:01]
SOMETHING LIKE 10%. 
          IT'S TWO GRAND. 
          IT'S TWO GRAND. 
          IF SO YOU WANT, SO IF YOU, YEAH, WE'RE ROUGHLY THREE AND A HALF TIMES THEIR CURRENT AT 23,000 FOR A COUNCIL MEMBER. 
          SO THREE AND A HALF TIMES YOUR TWO 50 MAYBE RIGHT. 
          DIFFERENTIAL. 
          OH. 
          AND THEN YOU HAVE TO BE, AND THAT'S EIGHT 70. 
          SO THERE YOU GO. 
          IF YOU PAY THE COUNCIL MEMBER, THERE'S 30% LESS THAN THE MAYOR. 
          THAT WOULD BE TOTAL ALL COST BE YOU GO THE OTHER DIRECTION. 
          SORRY. 
          OH, SO YOU CAN JUST TAKING AWAY FROM COUNCIL RUN OF THE MAYOR , IF WE SAY THAT 3000 IS A HARD UPPER LIMIT. 
          YEAH. 
          I THINK WE CAN SAVE LIKE 3000 TO I THINK . 
          I'M GONNA WAIT FOR YOU COUNSEL ONLY THERE ONLY, ONLY MINIMUM WAGE. 
          NO, THAT'S FINE. 
          SO OUTTA YOUR POCKET AND GIVE IT INTO THAT PERSON. 
          . 
          I LOVE THAT. 
          THAT WAS AMAZING. 
          PUT THAT BACK ABOUT, UH, YEAH, I MEAN 10% ON THAT 2300. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT'S JUST WHAT IT'S JUST WHAT IT'S, AND THAT IS A VERY NOMINAL NUMBER. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND IT GIVES, AND IT THAT IT'S ACTUALLY 1% OF THE TOTAL. 
          SO YOU'RE SAYING INCREASE THE MINIMUM BY POINT 10%. 
          YEP. 
          OVER ACCOUNT. 
          IF YOU MULTIPLY THE ACTUAL DOLLAR VALUE, YOU GET ABOUT $900 DIFFERENTIAL. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO TWO 50 TURNS INTO 900 DIFFERENTIAL IF YOU DO MULTIPLICATION OUT. 
          YEAH. 
          I STILL THINK TYING INTO 2% IS WHAT MAKE YEAH. 
          AND THAT GIVES COUNCIL A TOOL TO WORK WITH. 
          AND THAT WOULD BE 5% MINUS OR PLUS ALONE IF YOU'RE PLAYING THE GAME, THE NUMBERS HE JUST GAVE US 5% ISH. 
          LET'S, I'M DOING BIG ROUNDING HERE, BUT YES. 
          BIG BREAK ROUNDING. 
          SURE. 
          YOU'RE AT NOW TWO HOURS JUST GIVING YOU A YEP. 
          YES WE HAVE GIVE OUR TWO HOUR TIME, BUT I THINK THEY DID SOMETHING. 
          YEAH. 
          TURN IT INTO WORDS. 
          YEAH. 
          , HOW DO WE YEAH, YEAH. 
          SO TO WRITE THIS UP AND TO COUGH THESE NUMBERS UP SO WE CAN LOOK AT 'EM WOULD BE THE NEXT THING TO SEE. 
          SO IN THAT EXPECTATION, UH, YOU WOULD EXPECT TO SEE, UM, SOME CONTEMPLATION LANGUAGE OF HOW WE GOT HERE. 
          THEN INCLUSIVE OF OUR DISCUSSION TODAY WOULD READ ALMOST LIKE OUR MINUTES A LITTLE BIT. 
          BUT THAT CONVERSATION OF HERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT LED TO US DOING THIS PARTICULAR NUMBER AND THE RANGES THAT THOSE BASES WERE ON. 
          SO HEALTHCARE COSTS ALSO MINIMUM WAGE COSTS, RANGE OF HOURS IN EACH OF THE JOB CONVERSATIONS, WHICH LED US TO COMPROMISE TO A 30 HOUR TIMES A MINIMUM WAGE PLUS BECAUSE THE GOAL WAS TO GET TO A COMPENSATION THAT MIGHT GENERATE A DIFFERENT TYPE OF DEMOGRAPHIC. 
          WE BELIEVE HEALTHCARE IS THAT COMPONENT. 
          YOU HAVE ACCESS TO IT AT THE RATES THAT THE CITY PAYS. 
          OTHERWISE IF YOU, THAT WOULD COVER YOUR COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH IT OR YOU WOULD HAVE THE ACCESS AND OR CONTRIBUTE YOURSELF TO WHATEVER IT IS, YOUR LEVEL OF FAMILY YOU WANTED TO AT THE SAME RATES THAT THE EMPLOYEES WOULD DO THAT. 
          AND THAT WOULD BE THE RELATIVE PROPOSAL. 
          AT THE END OF THAT, I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT I COULD NOT SUPPORT TAKING A COUNCIL MEMBER FROM $6,000 TO REMEMBER WE HAVE UP THERE EVEN FOR 20 HOURS. 
          ALTHOUGH I I COULD DO THAT MAYBE, BUT IT'S SO HUGE, SUCH A HUGE PERCENTAGE. 
          IT'S NOT, I KNOW IT'S NOT GOOD. 
          IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T DO THE THINGS, WHATEVER, BUT IT'S NOT REALISTIC IN MY MIND. 
          WHY DO WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE MAKING NOW IF WE DON'T THINK WHAT THEY'RE MAKING NOW IS DOING WHAT WE WANT IT TO DO? I THINK IT'S A MOOT POINT WHAT THEY'RE MAKING NOW. 
          THEY COULD BE MAKING $5 AND IT'S, TO ME IT'S THE SAME, THE ARMY $5 AND ARE WE STILL TYING THIS TO THE NEXT ELECTION CYCLE, WHICH IS A NEW, WHICH IS A DIFFERENT COMPONENT, WHICH IS WHAT TWO, AND WE TALKED ABOUT ONLY APPLYING IT TO THE PEOPLE WHO WERE, WHO GOT ELECTED. 
          CORRECT. 
          NOT EVERYONE GETS IT. 
          I I MEAN I I'M FINE WITH THIS. 
          I WOULDN'T DO, I DON'T CARE. 
          YEAH. 
          KNOW. 
          I DON'T CARE IF IT LIKE, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE GETS PAID IN THE TWO YEARS, BUT WHATEVER, WE WANNA DO IT THAT WAY. 
          THAT'S FINE. 
          BUT I I I HEAR YOU. 
          BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE PERCENTAGE AND YOU SOLD IT TO ME WITH NO CONTEXT, THEY'D BE LIKE, 
          [01:50:02]
BUT I THINK WHAT THEY'RE MAKING IS THE MOOT POINT BECAUSE IT'S BASICALLY ZERO. 
          IT MAY BE MOOT TO YOU, BUT DO YOU THINK THAT THOSE PEOPLE ARE GONNA PUT THEMSELVES ON THE LINE WITH WHO'S, WHO'S PEOPLE THAT ARE ON THE COUNCIL NOW, WOULD YOU GO WITH THIS AND HAVE TO FACE THE COMMUNITY THAT YOU TOOK A HIKE FROM 6,000 TO BUT HE ISN'T 20, WHATEVER IT IS. 
          I'M THINKING LIKE A TYPICAL COUNCIL MEMBER. 
          WELL NONE OF THEM ARE BECAUSE WE AREN'T PAYING THEM THIS. 
          THEY HAVE TO RUN AGAIN AND THEN THEY GET YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT'S THE WHOLE REASON. 
          THE WAY IS IT CAN'T BE ENTIRELY SELF-SERVING. 
          THEY HAVE TO RE-EARN. 
          THE ONLY THING WE'RE OFFERING TO THEM POTENTIALLY IS HEALTHCARE. 
          OTHERWISE YOU HAVE TO GO RUN THIS. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          EFFECTIVELY, IF THE LONGER IT TAKES WITH COUNSEL TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION, WHICH IT MIGHT, THEY ARE, LIKE YOU SAID, THEY, WE WOULD GET PAST THE WINDOW FOR EFFECTIVE OF JANUARY OF A 27. 
          AND THEN THAT WOULD ONLY BY LAW HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE EFFECT IN JANUARY EFFECTIVELY OF 29 IN THAT SENSE. 
          SO IN INCLUDING THOSE WHO ARE THE TWO YEARS LEFT AND THOSE WHO JUST GOT, THEY COULD IN THEORY BE GIVING THEMSELVES, 'CAUSE THERE'LL BE A COUPLE FOUR YEAR CYCLES ON THAT COUNCIL. 
          BUT IT WOULD ALMOST, IT WOULD ELIMINATE, UH, THE HUGE MAJORITY, THE MAYOR, ET CETERA, FROM NOT HAVING TO RUN FOR THAT NUMBER. 
          BUT IF YOU DID IT EFFECTIVE JANUARY 27TH, THERE'S A FEW ON THE COUNCIL AND THAT, I DON'T KNOW, DIDN'T WE TALK ABOUT ONLY DOING PEOPLE WHO RUN? SO LIKE NOT EVERYONE BEING PAID APPEAL TO ME OR TO THAT FIRST FEW YEARS THAT HALF OF THE BEGINNING OF, OF A WAGE AND HALF OF THEM WHEN IT DOESN'T FEEL, YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          AWESOME. 
          BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND WHY WE, WE SET THAT EARLY. 
          THE SINGLE NEWEST COUNCIL MEMBER WON'T BE ELIGIBLE FOR TILL FOUR YEARS IF WE DO IT THAT WAY. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND IT ALSO, IT DOES FEEL WEIRD TO HAVE PEOPLE ON THE, THE BIAS AT SUCH A DIFFERENT WAGE, BUT IT'S JUST THE ONE TIME, IT'S JUST THE, IT'S JUST, IT'S TO STOP THAT. 
          RIGHT. 
          IT'S TO STOP ANYONE PAYING THEMSELVES THIS WAGE. 
          RIGHT. 
          THEY'RE NOT MAKING A DECISION FOR THEMSELVES. 
          THEY'RE MAKING A DECISION FOR THE ELECTION. 
          AND I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE REPEATED EVERY THREE AND A HALF MINUTES WHEN WE'RE TALKING. 
          YEAH. 
          AND THAT'S WHY BREAKING OUT THE HEALTHCARE IS YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          THE CRITICAL IS THE ONE THAT'S WHAT WE RECOMMEND FOR IMMEDIATE, WHEN IMMEDIATE AVAILABLE EVERYONE HOW THAT WORKS. 
          QUALIFYING EVENTS AND THINGS FOR US. 
          OR IF YOU CAN JUST DO IT. 
          YEAH, NO, THAT, THAT BRINGS IN A WHOLE NOTHER GAME. 
          I GOTTA FIGURE OUT A QUALIFYING INVESTMENT. 
          YEAH. 
          ALLOWED IT. 
          YEAH. 
          I THINK THAT MIGHT BE TRUE, BUT RULING ON THAT. 
          WELL, BECAUSE THEY BECOME A NEW EMPLOYEE, THEY, THAT'S A NEW EVENT. 
          SO THAT COULD BE THE CASE AND THAT THEY SHOW UP ON THE SYSTEM. 
          THAT'S GOOD. 
          UM, BUT THERE'S A BUNCH OF RULES ABOUT IT, BUT SURE ARE, BUT THIS IS THE ONLY TIME IT'S GONNA BE HARD NEWLY ELIGIBLE. 
          SO, AND, AND THERE'S OTHER PLACES THAT DO IT. 
          SO THERE'S AN ANSWER OUT THERE. 
          I JUST DON'T HAVE IT. 
          I'M SORRY. 
          NO, AS LONG AS THERE IS, IT'S A NEW BENEFIT. 
          THAT'S A, THAT'S A YOU PROBLEM RUSS. 
          IT IS. 
          I LOUD AND CLEAR . 
          UM, SO YEAH, I THINK I AGREE. 
          IF YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT LIKE THEM OVERNIGHT BEING MAKING THIS MUCH MONEY. 
          YEAH. 
          SO I, WE DON'T, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD DECLARE WHETHER WE'RE ALL HAPPY WITH THIS YET. 
          LET'S WRITE IT UP AND THEN CIRCULATE IT AND SIT DOWN TOGETHER OUR NEXT MEETING AND SEE HOW, COME BACK AND ASK FOR DOUBLE , WHICH IS FINE. 
          [7. Discussion/possible ideas for future meeting/agenda items and set date.]
WE HAVE A NEXT MEETING SCHEDULED. 
          UH, WE DO NOT. 
          THAT WILL BE THE FINAL AGENDA ITEM. 
          HEY , I AM ON WAY THIS, UH, ING MEETING LITTLE LATE. 
          SO DISCUSSING THIS. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          YOU SEE, OH NO, YOU WANT GO SOMEWHERE ELSE OR THERE? YEAH. 
          THE  21ST WOULD BE A COUNCIL I BUT ARE YOU IN OCTOBER S SEPTEMBER 21ST? THAT WOULD BE A COUNCIL MEMBER WEEK, BUT I CAN'T BE THE 14TH. 
          SO THE 21ST. 
          THE 28TH. 
          YEAH. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER WEEK IS OKAY. 
          I'LL PROBABLY BE OUT 10 THE 28TH, BUT I'M FIFTH 21 SINCE ACADEMY. 
          SO LIKE, JUST IN THE MORNING THOUGH. 
          YEAH. 
          21 9 21 WORK. 
          IS THE EIGHT 30 TIMEFRAME APPROPRIATE? YES. 
          YEAH. 
          [01:55:06]
OKAY. 
          THAT IS WHAT WE NEEDED TO DO. 
          WE KIND OF TALKED ABOUT ITEM THREE FIVE, THE DISCUSSION OF FORMULA, THE, THE SURVEY STUFF. 
          BUT LET'S PUT THAT ON OUR AGENDA AGAIN AS WELL, JUST TO MAKE SURE WE CIRCLE BACK ON THAT. 
          AND ALSO THE TIMELINE FOR THE REPORT HAVE WELL.
* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.